# Ouch!!!....



## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Well, there we have it!!...

Revealed: the UK?s least reliable cars

WOW......R35's are then, by inference, LESS reliable than TVR's...... (will need to start cutting the TVR lot a bit of slack with the trailer jibes :chuckle






TT


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## grouse (May 11, 2014)

Saw this earlier better sell up now :runaway:


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

AM glad they explain why it's there in case anyone is foolish enough to be taken in.


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Don't believe everything on the web!
I had the first UK car from marshals Cambridge
Used it almost every day as it was my only car.
Did 77000 miles and 40 track days in 7.5 years and it never broke down.


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Absolute pish 
One of the first black editions with navigation here. 7 years old, used every day. Never let me down. And I've pissed about with it A LOT


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> Absolute pish
> One of the first black editions with navigation here. 7 years old, used every day. Never let me down. And I've pissed about with it A LOT


Fair play, and you have been VERY lucky.

Had mine 2 years, stage 4.25 for 2 years and was modded after 1 month, thanks to this very forum! Errr thanks.. BUT stage 4/4.25 is much more FUN at top end!! Maybe i could have left it stock, but top end on a 09 i didn't think was very exciting! nowt more than my old evo X.

Anyhow, in this time x2 gearbox failures (1st - selection issues cost 7k to fix, with Dodson upgrades (which to be fair Dodson upgrade parts cost the most), 2nd - 5th gear ate itself on the motorway and fragged the gearbox, cost 5k to fix) ohh and this year, year 2 the engine blew up, 15kish to fix... So now the fcuker is being forged to take 1000bhp+ , so it don't throw a rod again!

See the problem is my friends, you press the loud pedal once fixed, and ALL IS FORGIVEN!! PLEASE SNAP MY NECK GTR, ALL IS FORGIVEN TAKE MY CASH!!


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Chronos said:


> Fair play, and you have been VERY lucky.
> 
> Had mine 2 years, stage 4.25 for 2 years and was modded after 1 month, thanks to this very forum! Errr thanks.. BUT stage 4/4.25 was FUN at top end!! and still is! Maybe i could have left it stock, but top end on an 09 i didn't think was very exciting! nowt more than my old evo X.
> 
> ...


Remind me to never lend you a car. Ever 

I think stage 4/4.25 is just past the sweet spot for a GTR. As you say, reliability has suffered. A stage 4 which gets driven hard all the time is going to suffer. I think it's intended is for normal road use, with an occasional squirt off the lights. Smashing the snot out of it at 600bhp+? Well, if it could, Nissan would have. Maybe. 

An EcuTek stage 2 or Cobb stage 3 will do me. 

I agree with the stock top end lack lustre. It's okay til 3rd high. But that's a ton, and I get scared after that :chuckle:


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> Remind me to never lend you a car. Ever
> 
> I think stage 4/4.25 is just past the sweet spot for a GTR. As you say, reliability has suffered. A stage 4 which gets driven hard all the time is going to suffer. I think it's intended is for normal road use, with an occasional squirt off the lights. Smashing the snot out of it at 600bhp+? Well, if it could, Nissan would have. Maybe.
> 
> ...


Haha, Agreed, personally from what I've seen.... and recently I've seen quite a few engines blown on stage 4+ , and remember I use mine as a daily, so maybe 50+ miles and modified, its accelerating the rods getting bent/stressed.. and I've talked to a few owners about this. And even some tuners! Who agreee something is amiss.

TBH it looks like the stock rods will take some *hardcore* punishment, but at stage 4+ with torque 640+ldft from what I have seen, it looks like its bending the rods very very slowly. over a long time, in my case I bought the car on 27k, and 2 years later it blew on stage 4.25 at 52k


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## Snooze (Aug 5, 2015)

tarmac terror said:


> Well, there we have it!!...
> 
> Revealed: the UK?s least reliable cars
> 
> ...


09 here, hasn't missed a beat, including 2000 mile Euro trip and Nurburgring.

My time with a TVR however was more interesting. Broke down in the fast lane of the M4. Developed a fuel issue on a 7 hour drive home resulting in me kangarooing the entire journey - my wife who was in the car the entire time was not impressed. Drove 40 miles with my hand holding the driver side wing mirror on to the car. Got 2 flat rear tyres - at the same time. Re-occurence of the fuel issue just as I was over taking a line of cars with an artic heading towards me, again my wife was less than impressed - mainly cos she had to wash my underpants!

And the day my mate bought a brand new TVR he pulled up on my drive to gloat. Where upon I pointed out that his headlight had fallen off in the 20 miles from the garage! Superb quality control.

But...driving at night with the roof off, the dash lit up and the amazing sound of the 5.0 V8 burble and all was forgiven. Magical experience.


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Chronos said:


> Haha, Agreed, personally from what I've seen.... and recently I've seen quite a few engines blown on stage 4+ , and remember I use mine as a daily, so maybe 50+ miles and modified, its accelerating the rods getting bent/stressed.. and I've talked to a few owners about this. And even some tuners! Who agreee something is amiss.
> 
> TBH it looks like the stock rods will take some *hardcore* punishment, but at stage 4+ with torque 640+ldft from what I have seen, it looks like its bending the rods very very slowly. over a long time, in my case I bought the car on 27k, and 2 years later it blew on stage 4.25 at 52k


I can see that happening. I'd be in the garage doing a compression test now, if I had stage 4+ 

I guess too much torque too early in the revs is the issue. When it's already shifting, and at higher rpm, the compressive force isn't as high. Though rods usually break because of massive tension when they get whipped past TDC.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> I can see that happening. I'd be in the garage doing a compression test now, if I had stage 4+
> 
> I guess too much torque too early in the revs is the issue. When it's already shifting, and at higher rpm, the compressive force isn't as high. Though rods usually break because of massive tension when they get whipped past TDC.


After what's happened to me, and the number of people with blown stage 4+'s lately.. If you use the car a lot, regular and a lot of miles at these stages 4+, I'd definitely have it checked. As getting it forged BEFORE any issues , will save you a lot of heartache and cash! replacement block on it's own is around 3k, mine fragged a head, the crank and a turbo when the rods went as well, so more major parts you need to source and pay for. all thousands each new, or IF you can find spares.

Now NOT not to scare anyone, but just to make it more real to them.. Here's what happens when a rod makes an escape for freedom!

rod escaped!


















Crank fragged


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Yes I agree the tvrs are more reliable because they spend 99%of there life off the road broken down in a workshop somewhere or another.... Lol... The twats who carried out that survey must have been drinking there grandpa's cough medicine. Bloody Idiots


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Chronos said:


> After what's happened to me, and the number of people with blown stage 4+'s lately.. If you use the car a lot, regular and a lot of miles at these stages 4+, I'd definitely have it checked. As getting it forged BEFORE any issues , will save you a lot of heartache and cash! replacement block on it's own is around 3k, mine fragged a head, the crank and a turbo when the rods went as well, so more major parts you need to source and pay for. all thousands each new, or IF you can find spares.
> 
> Now NOT not to scare anyone, but just to make it more real to them.. Here's what happens when a rod makes an escape for freedom!
> 
> rod escaped!


Jeez....that's grim dude!!


TT


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Personally I think it's a lot to do with who maps the car and how its mapped and also how it's used... If it's abused the shite out of it then any car will go pop. I've had three 35's... Stage one, stage 4 and stage 5 cars and not a single engine or gearbox problem and those of you who know me or seen my cars will know that I do drag them but take extremely good care of them and don't abuse the nuts off them... Just enjoy them.... Thanks to Litchfields good strong safe mapping.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Takamo said:


> Personally I think it's a lot to do with who maps the car and how its mapped and also how it's used... If it's abused the shite out of it then any car will go pop. I've had three 35's... Stage one, stage 4 and stage 5 cars and not a single engine or gearbox problem and those of you who know me or seen my cars will know that I do drag them but take extremely good care of them and don't abuse the nuts off them... Just enjoy them.... Thanks to Litchfields good strong safe mapping.


When it comes to my car, it's always warmed up for 10 minutes before it even moves, mainly because of the stupid hill I live on. But still it's then up to full temps, Difference with mine is it's used every day as a daily, but it's well looked after and treated with mechanical sympathy as well, and I do have fun in it, but don't we all! That's what they are for after all.

The other gtr owners I've spoke to, all had their cars stage 4'd with different tuners, thus different mappers and theirs had still blown The engine.

I've also been told of stock r35s that have thrown rods! Yes stock not modded.

Looks to me if you're stage 4+ And Don't do many miles, the risk will be potentially lower, and it appears the more higher mileage cars, on this a elevated power over time may be stressing the rods.


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

What sometimes happens is that a piston not on its' firing stroke is whipped past TDC by the one that is. That change of direction, and the increased power per cylinder, is the thing that eventually causes rod failure. The only way to map around that is to reduce power at higher rpm. Which is what oem does. 

I'm fancying some forged bits and bobs. And an uprated girdle. 

Seeing that block and head in tatters has affected me emotionally. Like a wounded reptile. Poor Godzilla :bawling:


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## Moremore (Dec 29, 2014)

Chronos said:


> Fair play, and you have been VERY lucky.
> 
> Had mine 2 years, stage 4.25 for 2 years and was modded after 1 month, thanks to this very forum! Errr thanks.. BUT stage 4/4.25 is much more FUN at top end!! Maybe i could have left it stock, but top end on a 09 i didn't think was very exciting! nowt more than my old evo X.
> 
> ...


Wow a eye opener for some. 

Can I ask, did you have to pay for the fixes or warranty?


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Moremore said:


> Wow a eye opener for some.
> 
> Can I ask, did you have to pay for the fixes or warranty?


Paid myself upto now, as my tuner doesnt do GTR warranties, and the closest one that does is 100s of miles away. Tho I recently got a warranty that I'm testing out, can't say anything yet until the cars fixed. But it should cover 1/3 of the cost.


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## E14STO (Aug 20, 2015)

Having had a 4.5 cerbera for a daily for 3 years I can say they aren't that bad!
But my GTR touch wood hasn't had a major issue since the first week I bought it..

Cerbera blew electrics once on bypass at 3am - instant darkness at 90mph - bit scary!
Clutch went - not a major issue aside from the 10 week wait to get one!
3 starter motors in 3 years!
Not too bad considering the rep.


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

Am running stage 4.25 and seeing them photo's kinda worries me, on the plus side I only tend to do 4k to 5k miles a year and usually only one or two track days a year. Am always very carefully about warming the car up before I put the foot down. 

My next upgrades am planning on is a aftermarket intercooler and tranny cooler. I did look at going down the forge route but then am tempted with new turbo's since the engine is out and then I would have to strengthening the gearbox and basically the list goes on and on lol 

How much roughly is it to forge the engine again? 5k with labour?


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Kieranrob said:


> Am running stage 4.25 and seeing them photo's kinda worries me, on the plus side I only tend to do 4k to 5k miles a year and usually only one or two track days a year. Am always very carefully about warming the car up before I put the foot down.
> 
> My next upgrades am planning on is a aftermarket intercooler and tranny cooler. I did look at going down the forge route but then am tempted with new turbo's since the engine is out and then I would have to strengthening the gearbox and basically the list goes on and on lol
> 
> How much roughly is it to forge the engine again? 5k with labour?


7-8k for rods and pistons


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

vxrcymru said:


> 7-8k for rods and pistons


Thanks I remember now, I will not be able to afford that next year but it will be on my bucket list so I will just have to take it easy until then.


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

What is the current thinking on the best pistons for stock bore?

I've always though CP pistons and Carillo H beams were the way to go.

Very tempted to forge but when I'm looking at £7k I can't see where the costs is. Pistons and rods are about £2k, guessing the other bits would be £1k worst case so thats £4k of labour. Even at £50 an hour that's 80 hours, can't take 2 weeks to drop, build then refit an engine. I'd have guessed 3 -4 days max.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

My thinking is if you just do the rods you wont have to do any machining work - and cannot see why it would take more than 2 days


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

borat52 said:


> What is the current thinking on the best pistons for stock bore?
> I've always though CP pistons and Carillo H beams were the way to go.
> Very tempted to forge but when I'm looking at £7k I can't see where the costs is. Pistons and rods are about £2k, guessing the other bits would be £1k worst case so thats £4k of labour. Even at £50 an hour that's 80 hours, can't take 2 weeks to drop, build then refit an engine. I'd have guessed 3 -4 days max.


Mines having carrilo rods and cp pistons, gone for Some cheeky hks cams as well.

Carillo rods with carr bolts are 1550-2k
Cp pistons just under 1k
Other parts , like studs and gasket kits etc come to just under 1k
Labor charge I've been quoted for my rebuild is 50 hours. 1.5 to 2 weeks work im told. They go over it like a fine tooth pic.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Chronos said:


> Labor charge I've been quoted for my rebuild is 50 hours. 1.5 to 2 weeks work im told. They go over it like a fine tooth pic.


That's simply outrageous IMHO.... 50 hours to rebuild an engine into a new block is taking the piss...

They'd have to go over it with an electron microscope to even justify HALF of that!! 


TT


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Chronos said:


> Mines having carrilo rods and cp pistons, gone for Some cheeky hks cams as well.
> 
> *Carillo rods with carr bolts are 1550-2k
> Cp pistons just under 1k
> ...


Was living in the land of 1.5$/£ I think with my costs and putting them in a suitcase on the way back from the states.

Interested in the idea of a rod swap, I'm not going beyond 750bhp, just want a bit of piece of mind really. Happy to spend a few grand now to save nuking a block.

Spending £7k now to prevent something that might or might not happen over a number of years isn't such an attractive proposition. 

Even forged engines pop too which makes £7k even less enticing.


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

terry lloyd said:


> My thinking is if you just do the rods you wont have to do any machining work - and cannot see why it would take more than 2 days


Like this idea a lot, can't be much to mess up with a rod swap either so any competent mechanic should be able to do this for sensible money.


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## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

Is there any way to check for rod wear other than to literally remove them and inspect?


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

-SeanS said:


> Is there any way to check for rod wear other than to literally remove them and inspect?


Wear? They don't wear, coz they don't touch anything.
They can get bent or snapped.


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## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

I don't know much about engine internals so you'll have to excuse me if it's a stupid question. But is the reason conrods break not because of fatigue or in the case of premature failure because they are subjected to excessive loads (particularly on tuned cars or poorly mapped cars where there are high knock conditions). Surely they must show some sign that they are about to go I.e signs of wear?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

-SeanS said:


> Surely they must show some sign that they are about to go I.e signs of wear?


Not exactly the easiest thing to do a weekly visual check on though, are they? Once they've bent, a lot of strength is lost and they will then break when stressed enough


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

First sign of a failed conrod is a grenaded engine.

As Tazz says there isn't any visible or perceivable signs before that.

They work, or they fail. There isn't any means of seeing the precursor signs of a partially deformed rod.


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

In theory you would see a change in the compression ratio, but I suspect this would be so small that you could not test it reliably.

I would also have thought that you could check for imbalances in the engine, a rod which was bent would certainly put the engine out of balance. This would possibly be easier to measure but really you'd need data gathered from prior to the bent rod to be able to say with any degree of certainty that it was down to that.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Not sure but you may pick up a piston being lower down the bore at tdc with a bore scope


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## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

borat52 said:


> In theory you would see a change in the compression ratio, but I suspect this would be so small that you could not test it reliably.
> 
> I would also have thought that you could check for imbalances in the engine, a rod which was bent would certainly put the engine out of balance. This would possibly be easier to measure but really you'd need data gathered from prior to the bent rod to be able to say with any degree of certainty that it was down to that.


I did wonder if a compression test might pick something up. 

TAZZ - Agreed that it's not something you would check regularly, my thinking was if you were going from eg Stage 4 to 4.5, whilst the engine was out it may be worth checking for signs if there were any. It would seem not!


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

There was a chap in the USA who said he noticed increased engine vibrations over time with a tuned GTR (think I read it on gtrlife) - he decided it was wise to pull the engine apart and found bent rods.

I think it's like charlie said a few posts ago, if you imagine what a rod is and the stress / strain that's put on it, then by the time the rod is significantly out of shape (ie measurable in some way if you went testing) it's probably too weak to function and your engine is toast.

Anyone able to explain to me how the rod goes from bending to ending up exiting through the block?

Also anyone got photo's of the other rods from one of these engines which has spat out a rod?


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

charles charlie said:


> First sign of a failed conrod is a grenaded engine.
> 
> As Tazz says there isn't any visible or perceivable signs before that.
> 
> They work, or they fail. There isn't any means of seeing the precursor signs of a partially deformed rod.





borat52 said:


> In theory you would see a change in the compression ratio, but I suspect this would be so small that you could not test it reliably.
> 
> I would also have thought that you could check for imbalances in the engine, a rod which was bent would certainly put the engine out of balance. This would possibly be easier to measure but really you'd need data gathered from prior to the bent rod to be able to say with any degree of certainty that it was down to that.


Before mine blew/threw a rod, there where NO signs of any problem. Boost was fine, power fine, drivability fine, week before daily driving power and drivability fine, 2 hour journey to the track fine, an hour on track fine then coming up to a corner i'd say on 3/4 boost it blew. I've got the video of it blowing, and the video from behind my car as well. I may post them up once it's all fixed and I'm GT-R happy again. All I heard was a few rattles from the front, and the car totally lost engine power, electrics still on steering heavy. With massive plooms of smoke behind me in the air, like I had an industrial smoke machine blowing out the back. With lots of oil and bits of metal all over the track behind me. It was a ****ing horrible , sad sad day!!


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

It's not bent, it's snapped. Echo echo echo. Guys guys guys, not compressive forces, it's tension tension tension. Whipped over TDC. Not on a firing stroke. Hello.


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Chronos said:


> Before mine blew/threw a rod, there where NO signs of any problem. Boost was fine, power fine, drivability fine, week before daily driving power and drivability fine, 2 hour journey to the track fine, an hour on track fine then coming up to a corner i'd say on 3/4 boost it blew. I've got the video of it blowing, and the video from behind my car as well. I may post them up once it's all fixed and I'm GT-R happy again. All I heard was a few rattles from the front, and the car totally lost engine power, electrics still on steering heavy. With massive plooms of smoke behind me in the air, like I had an industrial smoke machine blowing out the back. With lots of oil and bits of metal all over the track behind me. It was a ****ing horrible , sad sad day!!


Post em post em post em. Me love you long time


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> It's not bent, it's snapped. Echo echo echo. Guys guys guys, not compressive forces, it's tension tension tension. Whipped over TDC. Not on a firing stroke. Hello.


Not quite the whole story though.

There are plenty of online pictures of bent OEM rods replaced prior to failure. They are not stretched but bent.

There is no doubt that tension is a factor but it is only part of the complex issues affecting con rods. Heat, cyclic fatigue (both compressive and tensile forces), oil starvation, pre-det etc all contribute.

The biggest issue with all failures is a simple lack of data and on a road car we are never going to have that data to ascertain at what point the rod failed.

All we can say is that stock rods can and do fail even at stock boost levels. Raising boost just raises the risk of this happening.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

They stretch due to over revving, they bend due to compression loading from running much more torque than their design envelope allows.

If bent already, all it takes is one power stroke to bend them to the point of snapping. You then have a free piston with a pivoted tail and another free pivoting tail on the crank shaft. The crank is still spinning because of the other five cylinders, so it doesn't take much for the free end of the broken rod to punch through the side of the block.


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## Gavinsan (May 28, 2012)

paul__k said:


> Don't believe everything on the web!
> I had the first UK car from marshals Cambridge
> Used it almost every day as it was my only car.
> Did 77000 miles and 40 track days in 7.5 years and it never broke down.



wow what an amazing advertisment for build and reliability


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Chronos said:


> Before mine blew/threw a rod, there where NO signs of any problem. Boost was fine, power fine, drivability fine, week before daily driving power and drivability fine, 2 hour journey to the track fine, an hour on track fine then coming up to a corner i'd say on 3/4 boost it blew. I've got the video of it blowing, and the video from behind my car as well. I may post them up once it's all fixed and I'm GT-R happy again. All I heard was a few rattles from the front, and the car totally lost engine power, electrics still on steering heavy. With massive plooms of smoke behind me in the air, like I had an industrial smoke machine blowing out the back. With lots of oil and bits of metal all over the track behind me. It was a ****ing horrible , sad sad day!!


Just curious, do you recall roughly what your oil/trans/coolant temps were reading at the time of the horror?


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trevgtr said:


> Just curious, do you recall roughly what your oil/trans/coolant temps were reading at the time of the horror?


Not sure, but wouldnt have been high, had done approx an hour on track on and off, and after coming off the last run had let the car cool down for 30 mins, and had just took it out again. Was quite a chilly day as well. I had then done about a lap and a half and it happened. kaBoom!


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## besty (Apr 10, 2009)

Chronos said:


> Before mine blew/threw a rod, there where NO signs of any problem. Boost was fine, power fine, drivability fine, week before daily driving power and drivability fine, 2 hour journey to the track fine, an hour on track fine then coming up to a corner i'd say on 3/4 boost it blew. I've got the video of it blowing, and the video from behind my car as well. I may post them up once it's all fixed and I'm GT-R happy again. All I heard was a few rattles from the front, and the car totally lost engine power, electrics still on steering heavy. With massive plooms of smoke behind me in the air, like I had an industrial smoke machine blowing out the back. With lots of oil and bits of metal all over the track behind me. It was a ****ing horrible , sad sad day!!


Scary pictures and tears if it had been my car. Are the failure rates worse than the tuned R34's ? As has been said, machines do break so failures on stock cars are inevitable at some stage and tuning could accelerate the timetable.


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## R35_owner (Jun 3, 2014)

What a load of crap lol


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

If you were just changing the rods rotating assembly would need to be re balanced,which means total engine disassembly.


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

Rods are obviously out of there design envelope @ the 4- 4.25 stages,are the standard rods in the VR38 a forged item? as im not familiar with this engine. don't quit understand why Nissan didn't put a stronger I beam forged rod in if they aren't.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Why would they put in stronger rods?! They designed the car to run 550bhp for a specific life cycle and that is well within the standard internals tolerances, what's ya point? If you want to mod the car to big power you pay for it, why would they consider anyone taking the car passed 650bhp?! You might as wel say "why didn't they spec the internals to be indestructible"


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Fords new focus RS is on the limits of its internals, there are going to be a lot of blown up ones when they start modding cheaply


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## Daytona99 (Apr 16, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> Fords new focus RS is on the limits of its internals, there are going to be a lot of blown up ones when they start modding cheaply


Just out of interest, how do you personally know this?!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I know people, it's not an educated guess


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Stealth69 said:


> Fords new focus RS is on the limits of its internals, there are going to be a lot of blown up ones when they start modding cheaply


Doubt that. Ford have been doing this a long time. For somebody to thrash the snot out of a stock RS, it'll need a healthy headroom. Ford want your money, and then to not see you again til you need another one.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> Doubt that. Ford have been doing this a long time. For somebody to thrash the snot out of a stock RS, it'll need a healthy headroom. Ford want your money, and then to not see you again til you need another one.


Well the our doubt is misplaced! Trust me, the focus RS engine is designed to run the power it is running now with little headroom For modification. I'm pretty sure one blew up on track in recent months under normal track abuse..... just saying


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

55chev said:


> If you were just changing the rods rotating assembly would need to be re balanced,which means total engine disassembly.


Why ? you balance the rods seperate they are not connected when balancing the rotating assembly


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

terry lloyd said:


> Why ? you balance the rods seperate they are not connected when balancing the rotating assembly


If your changing the rods to a stronger rod,the chances of them being the same weight are about nill,Bob weight would be different so weight would need to be removed or added to the crank throws depending on which type of rod you used.


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

Stealth69 said:


> Why would they put in stronger rods?! They designed the car to run 550bhp for a specific life cycle and that is well within the standard internals tolerances, what's ya point? If you want to mod the car to big power you pay for it, why would they consider anyone taking the car passed 650bhp?! You might as wel say "why didn't they spec the internals to be indestructible"


 Going from standard 550hp to 600-650hp isn't exactly a huge amount,most jap stuff is over engineered,there is a 10% performance envelope there which doesn't seem enough,the cost from using a marginal standard rod to using a stronger product would be minimal for a huge company like Nissan. thats my point!


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Do you work in the motor industry?

I have applied for patents on advances that reduce the cost of manufacturing a fastener by less than 100th of a penny.

Car companies are run by accountants long before engineers. Unless they are making supercars.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

55chev said:


> Going from standard 550hp to 600-650hp isn't exactly a huge amount,most jap stuff is over engineered,there is a 10% performance envelope there which doesn't seem enough,the cost from using a marginal standard rod to using a stronger product would be minimal for a huge company like Nissan. thats my point!


Don't get your point, they built the car to be their spec and run for a given time period, they don't give a toss what you do to the car afterwards and they certainly wouldn't consider your future plans if it's going to cost them money! The car is designed to run 550bhp reliable and for their given life cycle, what manufacturer cares about your future modding requirements?! Non!


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

So your happy with a 10% margin,good for you,im not lol


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

And I think you are confused by bhp and torque, it's not the bhp that kills the engine, it's the extra torque, the standard torque was around 440lb/ft and the limit is 650ish (give or take) so that's a 30+% increase 

The original car had 480bhp and it's essentially the same engine now in the later models so they did build a fair old whack of overhead in over the original spec


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

55chev said:


> So your happy with a 10% margin,good for you,im not lol


Go buy a supra then, the only Jap car with some really over engineered internals! Lol


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## goldywaggon (Apr 23, 2014)

Stealth69 said:


> Fords new focus RS is on the limits of its internals, there are going to be a lot of blown up ones when they start modding cheaply


What a lot of rubbish
I work for ford and deal with mountune stuff also. Ford manufacture a good amount of tolerance into every car they develop. Hence why they partner and warrant certain mountune upgrades as they still fall well within safe limits of what ford recommend 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

Stealth69 said:


> And I think you are confused by bhp and torque, it's not the bhp that kills the engine, it's the extra torque, the standard torque was around 440lb/ft and the limit is 650ish (give or take) so that's a 30+% increase
> 
> The original car had 480bhp and it's essentially the same engine now in the later models so they did build a fair old whack of overhead in over the original spec


Thats funny!!!  yeh deffo confused,weather torque or HP lmfao ,nissan should of increased the spec of the rod when increasing power ouput from release in 2008 till 2017 they didn't!!! the torque increased but the spec didnt..


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

goldywaggon said:


> What a lot of rubbish
> I work for ford and deal with mountune stuff also. Ford manufacture a good amount of tolerance into every car they develop. Hence why they partner and warrant certain mountune upgrades as they still fall well within safe limits of what ford recommend
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Work for Ford as what? A salesman, engineer? Let's see what happens when people start trying to eek 450+bhp and the same sort of torque hike out of that poor little 2.3 ecoboost, let's see how reliable it is then shall we! 

As I say an RS blew tself to bits on a track day recently so they aren't as bomb proof as you seem to think....... perhaps it's time to look at your warranties!


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Mountune offer an M375 which is warranted yet their M380 package is not.

I wouldn't call 5hp much of a margin of tolerance.


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

Stealth69 said:


> Go buy a supra then, the only Jap car with some really over engineered internals! Lol


 Already own the best car in the world,got it on my birthday thanks..


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

You lucky little flower you..... enjoy it


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

Stealth69 said:


> You lucky little flower you..... enjoy it


Gotta say Ive always loved the skylines,Ive owned and raced many performance cars over the years but none come close to the driving experience of the R35,its on a whole different level,i cant stop driving the thing,never driven one before this one,very very impressive,just luv it to bits,****in awesome car.

ME OLD FRUIT


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