# Gearbox questions



## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Dear Skyliners, need some help regarding R33 and R34 GT-R transmissions.
I´m looking for a good 4WD tranny that allows the engine to be mounted behind the front wheels and think this is the design I want.

1. Main difference between the two, how much torque can the R33 gearbox handle?

2. Possible to just mount and go 4WD? How much electronics involved? Fully mechanical would be easy compared to the new Haldex and other systems.

3. Any chance you guys have the size of these gearboxes? From shifter to edge of clutch housing would be great.

Really nice if someone want to help out, really hard to find reliable info.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh, got another one.

4. People say you can off the 4WD and go RWD on these gearboxes, how does that work? Electronic center diff? Easy to wire from an empty car?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

How are you going to move the front diff forward on the engine?

How are you then going to move the engine back into the passenger compartment?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Hugh Keir said:


> How are you going to move the front diff forward on the engine?
> 
> How are you then going to move the engine back into the passenger compartment?


It can be done and here's how, but it costs a lot.

CAR FEATURE>> GARAGE ITO WITH PROSTOCK GT-R - Speedhunters


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hugh Keir said:


> How are you going to move the front diff forward on the engine?
> 
> How are you then going to move the engine back into the passenger compartment?


It´s not a Skyline, I planned to cut out the diff from a GT-R oilpan and make a standalone unit. 
Got a friend helping me CNC machine parts and TIG weld.

The engine is already behind the front wheels.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Very close to buying a tranny but not sure it will work, anyone willing to help? Will pay for info.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

R33 trans internally is the same/similar to 300zx etc. 3rd gear is weak. You break it about 500whp on a 3000-3500 lb car. All depends on the clutch.

The R34 has a Getrag V160 6 speed trans. Stronger, but we break them all wheel drive in other places. Shifting sprags and things. Same trans as a Toyota Supra.

The Real Basics –Nissan Skyline GT-R , R32, R33, R34

There are upgrades for everything, but all depends on you. How much power, how much weight?


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

tyndago said:


> R33 trans internally is the same/similar to 300zx etc. 3rd gear is weak. You break it about 500whp on a 3000-3500 lb car. All depends on the clutch.
> 
> The R34 has a Getrag V160 6 speed trans. Stronger, but we break them all wheel drive in other places. Shifting sprags and things. Same trans as a Toyota Supra.
> 
> There are upgrades for everything, but all depends on you. How much power, how much weight?


Really nice info, thanks! :thumbsup:

Want to find a nice tranny to support 800whp, car will weigh in at 1100kg, around 2600lbs.

Any idea how the system work? Oil pressure to "turn on" the FWD? Possible to make this work without the whole OEM system?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

B5254T4 said:


> Really nice info, thanks! :thumbsup:
> 
> Want to find a nice tranny to support 800whp, car will weigh in at 1100kg, around 2600lbs.
> 
> Any idea how the system work? Oil pressure to "turn on" the FWD? Possible to make this work without the whole OEM system?


I know a bit about the ATTESA system. I have about 12 years experience working on Nissan Skyline GT-R's, and I was crew chief on a team that raced in SCCA World Challenge in the US. 

You can use a pump, or a simple device to build pressure to lockup the clutch pack. 0-228 psi

Nissan Skyline GT-R ATTESA System Transfercase - YouTube






If you want simple and 800 whp - then Getrag would be the place to be. Its the strongest off the shelf setup. If money is no object then you can do a Holinger, or OS 88 sequential. 

The transfercase for an R34 is different than an R32/R33. They don't break too often, normally its odd things that do them in. 

Nissan Skyline GT-R ATTESA System Transfercase - YouTube


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Sorry for the Noobness but "0-228 psi" does that mean 0 psi for fully RWD and 228 psi for 50/50?

Again, thanks a lot, trying to get a grip on this.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Huge and Maxx have you seen the zcar TVR ? with 4wd and an rb26 ?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

B5254T4 said:


> Sorry for the Noobness but "0-228 psi" does that mean 0 psi for fully RWD and 228 psi for 50/50?
> 
> Again, thanks a lot, trying to get a grip on this.


If you are using a GT-R front diff, and you go 228 psi - perhaps 50/50 - maybe more like 40-60 or something-I dont think anyone has actually tested it, you will shatter the front diff with 800 whp- 400 whp.

You don't want more than about 150 hp to the front.

Full Race is working on a pump dealio for a non- ATTESA setup. Nothing on their site that I saw, but if you dig into Facebook you might find some info. Full-Race Motorsports | Facebook.

Geoff from Full Race is on this board on occasion. Last I think I saw he was talking about the BW turbos.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Ah, I see. What´s the weak link, front axle, clutch pack or transfer case? 150hp will help a lot, not that bad.

Also is there a visco LSD in the front and rear axle? If that´s the case it would be pretty easy to handle, just focus on the oil pump and oil pressure, some sort of valve or pump current control to adjust the FWD.

Already bought a 350Z rear axle but don´t think I can use it if I go this route, hard to find a matching front axle with the same ratio.
Maybe another 350Z axle sitting upside down? 

Again, thanks for great help! Were very close to go Subaru tranny and accept the engine placement.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

The front diff is open. What happens is you shatter the spider gears with a lot of power. Once you fix that, then the front axles start to break when you drag race. If you are careful in taking up the slack in the driveline you can make it live a little longer, but you have to be careful. 

For a GT-R axle ratio- you can do a 4.111 R32/R33. 3.54 for R34. There are a couple other options 4.3 for a GTS4. What ratio are you looking for?


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

The 350Z axle have 3.538, very close to the R34. Think that would do the trick.
Hard to upgrade the spider gears? Inside the chain part of the transfer box?

150hp at the front wheels will help, it´s like having a Civic under the hood.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

B5254T4 said:


> The 350Z axle have 3.538, very close to the R34. Think that would do the trick.
> Hard to upgrade the spider gears? Inside the chain part of the transfer box?
> 
> 150hp at the front wheels will help, it´s like having a Civic under the hood.


Spiders are in the front diff itself. I have snapped a couple. Off the two step on the line, drop the clutch, and the spider spits out of the case. 

The transfercase itself, really doesn't break much. There are some Russian guys on here that have broken a few, but even the quickest - 7 second cars, run a standard type box. I think if you are going hard, taking it apart and treating it nicely, will help it, but its really not a part that breaks much. 

Please watch the video above for a break down on the system. Its my video, so a lot of what is there, is explained by the video much more effectively than me just typing here.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh, sorry, didn´t know the English word for it. I´ve killed a bunch in other cars as well and replaced the differential with a Quaife LSD to get rid of them.
Might be a good thing to do here as well if we go R34 diff.

The other option is to use another axle up front, just found a Subaru rear diff using 3.5 ratio but maybe a bit long. Wish there were a compact unit out there running that ratio.

One of my first questions were about R34 Getrag size, everybody says it´s huge, any idea how long/wide?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

B5254T4 said:


> One of my first questions were about R34 Getrag size, everybody says it´s huge, any idea how long/wide?


Subaru rear diff is smaller, its close to the size of the GTR front diff. 

The Getrag is not huge at all. I have never got out the tape measure, as I always put them in GT-R's.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Still looking for the length, R33 vs R34 gearbox. I´m probably the worst Googler ever. 
Anyone with a car on the lift willing to help me?

Tyndago: Thanks for all the help, really nice since this info is soooo hard to find.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Its about 1.5-2 inches longer for the Getrag


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)




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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)




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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

The trans crossmember is in the same spot for the Getrag or normal box. 










Actually swapping from the Getrag to the Holinger- which is the same length as the standard 5 speed, we had to add a spacer about double this thick to the rear driveshaft.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Great pics, thanks! Actually found a gearbox yesterday and will order ASAP. The seller told me that it´s 100 cm from end to end, looks bigger in the pics but have to trust him.

Do you have a pump for sale? Better to buy a universal 12V pump and control pressure via a valve or current to the pump? Thoughts?

Tell me more about the Holinger, straight cut gears, bolt on, seq? Looks nice,


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

B5254T4 said:


> Tell me more about the Holinger, straight cut gears, bolt on, seq? Looks nice,


The ultimate GT-R gearbox 6 speed sequential handle 800lbs ft, got a quote recently from Holinger Europe of €13400 before VAT plus €500 delivery.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah, sounds like the one. Did you order?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

B5254T4 said:


> Yeah, sounds like the one. Did you order?


They used to be 18k Australian. To race in World Challenge in 2006, we couldnt get one quick enough, so ended up buying a used box for 12k USD. 

Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 N1 : Super Taikyu , World Challenge Car For Sale


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Really cool, a bit of racing history right there. I saw a crazy Volvo S60 at SEMA, same class as you competed in? 

Need to ask again if you missed it. Do you have a pump for sale? Better to buy a universal 12V pump and control pressure via a valve or current to the pump? Thoughts?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

B5254T4 said:


> Really cool, a bit of racing history right there. I saw a crazy Volvo S60 at SEMA, same class as you competed in?
> 
> Need to ask again if you missed it. Do you have a pump for sale? Better to buy a universal 12V pump and control pressure via a valve or current to the pump? Thoughts?


Blue/Yellow K-Pax Volvo? Yes we raced against them, but the earlier version. Very crazy, very fast. Also against Pratt and Miller and the Cadillac CTS-V, Dodge Viper Comp Coupes, Aston Martin DB9SR. 









Pump, I think you are better to find a pump that can handle the pressure and using it. Full Race was playing with something, but I think you could come up with a device that will work.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Getrag with the hydraulic throw out bearing for the Tilton carbon/carbon clutch.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Suzuki from Shift (Falken Nurburgring crew chief) showing us how to rebuild a Getrag. I should have video taped it, and taken more pics, but I failed. 










Getrag at Parade Rest.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah, the K-Pax Volvo. Had a feeling you competed in the same class since they also mentioned super cars.

Thanks for all these pics! Got a lot of evil plans now.  And PM if you have parts for sale, looking for a R34 front diff and both drive shafts.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Front diff is part of the oil pan. R32, R33, R34 physically are all the same. Just the gear ratios differ.

As far as driveshafts, make them. I wouldnt bother looking for them.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

tyndago said:


> Front diff is part of the oil pan. R32, R33, R34 physically are all the same. Just the gear ratios differ.
> 
> As far as driveshafts, make them. I wouldnt bother looking for them.


Yeah, but need the R34 ratio. Bolted on one side and spline on the other?
Looks like it on the pics, just a hole on one side.

Thought I would save time to use the OEM ends and make the shaft shorter. 4 bolt or spline ends on these cars? Spline is pretty expensive to custom make IIRC.

Sorry for all the questions...


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

If you are leaving the diff in the exact same location as it sits with the RB in the car, then using the OEM would make sense. Otherwise I couldn't see it making much sense. Although having it to start off with is a good idea.

Bolted one side, splined the other. It doesn't go into fluid, so removing it, it won't leak like a drivehsaft.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah, boring to use a Skyline front diff but can´t find anything smaller.  Any idea where I can find a R34 oil pan/diff in good shape?

Do you think the transfer clutch pack will burn if I use 3.545 front diff ratio and 3.538 rear? Close but probably bad huh?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

B5254T4 said:


> Yeah, boring to use a Skyline front diff but can´t find anything smaller.  Any idea where I can find a R34 oil pan/diff in good shape?
> 
> Do you think the transfer clutch pack will burn if I use 3.545 front diff ratio and 3.538 rear? Close but probably bad huh?


I would like to see the same front and rear. I have accidentally ran a 4.11 front and 3.54 rear, and the ATTESA system does not like that at all.


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## B5254T4 (Sep 13, 2011)

Haha, understand that. I guess tire wear front vs rear need to be matched as well then.

About the front diff, is there a better LSD than Quaife if we talk bang per buck?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

B5254T4 said:


> Haha, understand that. I guess tire wear front vs rear need to be matched as well then.
> 
> About the front diff, is there a better LSD than Quaife if we talk bang per buck?


I have not messed around too much with differentials. Its somewhere way down on my list of things to do.


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