# Jun Super Lemon Vs. Endless Racing 33



## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Just a simple Poll, as per this thread:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/90401-8sec-r33-gt-r-movies.html#post827813


A Clash of two Titans, The Jun Super Lemon, against the Endless Racing 33, Who do you think would win?


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

This would be a good race but Matts has to get the car here to the UK or Mick has to get the Lemon over there, either way it would cost a few quid to sort out. 

Besides the JUN SUPER LEMON would win, no doubt about it :bowdown1: 

This place is turning into Ladbrokes 

Right must shoot of to the Pod today to beat the Lemon's 1/4 mile time, a timing slip from a recognised drag strip would be another option. :thumbsup: 


Smokey :smokin:


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

I just started the poll i dunno whos gonna win but either way would be a fun race


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Good post Rain, Good Idea smokey on the timing slips if either can`t make it on the day, so we could say, fastest 0-400m for 2008.

Think its only fair for both R33s to have an engine bay introduction photo (this was taken today)


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

Sorry for speaking out of turn Mick but surely if the endless car is a proven 8 sec car then theres your answer without the speculation and poll?
Last time Mick was running i thought he made great progress and had got the car into the 9 secs?
Sorry if i am out of touch with his recent times, no disrespect intended. Plus , isn`t the lemon still kitted out with some of the creature comforts of a road car? 
Actually, is the super lemon Micks or is that the hyper etc? I get confused!


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

It depends over what distance dosen't it? Last I heard the Lemon was being set up for a 250 mph run this year.


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Good point Stealth, Just to clarify everybody we are talking about 0-400m and not top speed.


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

By the wat will the Endless-R be at the Osaka messe?


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

Well again Endless, wouldn`t a clash of the titans only be so if you went up against other proven 8 second cars? Not argueing for the sake of it, just doesn`t make sense putting a proven 8 sec car up against a 9 really and treating it as the clash of the best the UK has to offer surely? Again, no disrespect to either car.


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Jason abz said:


> Well again Endless, wouldn`t a clash of the titans only be so if you went up against other proven 8 second cars? Not argueing for the sake of it, just doesn`t make sense putting a proven 8 sec car up against a 9 really and treating it as the clash of the best the UK has to offer surely? Again, no disrespect to either car.


Hi Jason, 

click on the link in the first post, you can read what has been said.

Mick has wrote about his cars development on other threads, so I know its had further development since his high 9sec pass, (enough to want to ask for a race on a public forum so he is upto something..lol)


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

EndlessR said:


> Think its only fair for both R33s to have an engine bay introduction photo (this was taken today)


Looks fantastic, but going a little off topic, this shows why im not a huge fan of twins setups.

I mean could you get a _worse_ place to have the rear turbo inlet? Sitting almost touching something that glows red and almost white hot, therefore giving incredibly high inlet temps, therefore hugely knocking down compressor efficiency?

Always wonder if the fact the front turbo will always be breather much cooler denser air is related to turbo shuffle at all actually.


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

It will also come down to the driver behind the wheel.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Even if Micks car is having work done surley the lemon would need to prove it'self by running in the 8's before such a shoot out took place .Going for a 250mph run and going up in 1/4 mile racing for low times would be a lot to ask for one car in one year.


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

SteveN said:


> Looks fantastic, but going a little off topic, this shows why im not a huge fan of twins setups.
> 
> I mean could you get a _worse_ place to have the rear turbo inlet? Sitting almost touching something that glows red and almost white hot, therefore giving incredibly high inlet temps, therefore hugely knocking down compressor efficiency?
> 
> Always wonder if the fact the front turbo will always be breather much cooler denser air is related to turbo shuffle at all actually.


Thankyou and no problem will try and answer as best i can.

The rear turbo here will draw in hotter air as it is located further back in the engine. However both turbos flow to a single intercooler where the turbos difference in air temp is mixed, giving a average temp of say X (so although a cooler air temp could be achieved by better turbo location) the same boost of x is recorded in the intake manifold. Then there are other tuning options to further cool the intake temp making this not a problem.

Hope that helps


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## fuelburner (Oct 26, 2006)

Would be a bit of a non event as far a 'race' goes, I'd still like to see it happen but don't know about the time-slip idea, doesn't track condition, weather etc come into it?, I've read many threads where people have commented on the strip being 'downhill'. We don't want any excuses following the event if it did happen.
Oh yeah I voted for the Endless 33, if you're not involved with either car you've got to let your head make the decision.


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## jameswrx (Jul 27, 2003)

EndlessR said:


> Thankyou and no problem will try and answer as best i can.
> 
> The rear turbo here will draw in hotter air as it is located further back in the engine. However both turbos flow to a single intercooler where the turbos difference in air temp is mixed, giving a average temp of say X (so although a cooler air temp could be achieved by better turbo location) the same boost of x is recorded in the intake manifold. Then there are other tuning options to further cool the intake temp making this not a problem.
> 
> Hope that helps


I think the point Steve was making wasn't directly related to the heat of the compressed air as it leaves the turbo but the efficiency of the turbos being different from the inlet temps varying so wildly between the 2 turbos. ie the front turbo receiving cooler and therefore denser air. I believe the wastegates receive signal from a common pickup? so the 2 turbos are probably working differently regarding volumes of charge air being produced.

(steve?)


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

Well, if we vote with the head then the answer would be the lemon for me. This is purely based on the amount of facts we have heard of regarding 8 secs imports from overseas. If you search around on here there are enough posts regarding what cars have been imported that are going to set the benchmark however on Brit soil, they very rarely perform to the associated hype before arrival. Ask any of the top names in the scene and they will tell you that what they got off the boat needed a hell of a lot of work to acheive anywhere near the figures promised. Just an observation from reading. Seriously, no disrespect Endless-R but there does seem to be a hell of a difference between what the cars are able to roar up the strip at over there and what actually happens on the strips here.
You would definately need both cars on the same strip to really have any sort of time slip shoot-out with validity. 
Still, great for a bit of fun and banter.


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

The bit you're forgetting is that these cars that come off the boat are ex-something or other and therefore in need of work or an overhaul, as opposed to this endless car which is constantly being developed and maintained


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

Ooops sorry Endless.......i am just repeating what a lot of others have said in the other thread but i can assure you, its without any snide remarks or disrespect to a spendid car .
Can you clarify, is the car in Sweden or Japan for the runs on video? Damned surf control at work so i can`t open up either to see it.
cheers.


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

Not true mifn21, a lot of these cars have been bought for top dollar and supposedly developed and maintained constantly also.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

jameswrx said:


> I think the point Steve was making wasn't directly related to the heat of the compressed air as it leaves the turbo but the efficiency of the turbos being different from the inlet temps varying so wildly between the 2 turbos. ie the front turbo receiving cooler and therefore denser air. I believe the wastegates receive signal from a common pickup? so the 2 turbos are probably working differently regarding volumes of charge air being produced.
> 
> (steve?)


TBH mate the shuffle thing was an after thought that suddenly came in to my head.

The main issue that made me post is that on twins the rear turbo will be working at relativley shocking efficency compared to the front one due to the heat, and the equivalent single seems a much wiser plan.
But each to their own of course, everyone has different ideas, and its always a comprimise.

Would be good to put temp sensors on both turbo inlets to see what the reality is, tho would need to mount them well to stop em being sucked in.

Either way it would be interesting, as no massive difference would show that the people who constantly bang on about induction kits being bad and airboxes being gods own invention would be wrong, and a huge difference would show that the twins setups are not a good look.

(no restriction is of course much more important than pre-intercooler temps mind)

Sorry for going off-topic!


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

EndlessR said:


> Good post Rain, Good Idea smokey on the timing slips if either can`t make it on the day, so we could say, fastest 0-400m for 2008.
> 
> Think its only fair for both R33s to have an engine bay introduction photo (this was taken today)


Beautiful engine bay amazing work from endless-r as usual.

Can´t wait to race the lemon.

Like i said in the other thread if Mick ore someone else think my car it´s 
a drag car ore much lighter then Mick´s car i can put weight in the car
if you want.

I don´t want to hear any excuse like my car it´s this an that after the race.

Mick you better contact tweenirob ore someone because you will need all the help you can get and thats not a lie TRUST ME:smokin: 

Mats


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## Vips (May 13, 2007)

Wouldn't sumo's Fuujin be a better match for the Endless rather than the Jun Super Lemon?

DRAG NEWS 07


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## Vips (May 13, 2007)

Sorry, just read the little debate in the traders section, and the main argument seems to be about whether its a full on drag car or not. I mistakenly thought that this was about the fastest drag time regardless of state.

So when's this happening?

It's going to be quite something!


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## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

Not really competition imho, do the maths.... 25g's vs 3542's...

Cant take anything away from the endless car at all, but imho they are two different beasts. one car is almost in full trim and one will prob pull 400hp more. In fact... bit of a contridiction here but if both cars were like for like weight wise i would say the lemon hands down. AS they both stand... not sure.

Likewise, our drag strips in the uk seem to knock .5 to 1sec off teh jap times.

My 2p's worth

Rob


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Matsson said:


> Beautiful engine bay amazing work from endless-r as usual.
> 
> Can´t wait to race the lemon.
> 
> ...



Tell you what i will race you in my other 33 probably a we bit lighter but about same looks in side. Then you will need a bit more help. lol :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 


Mick


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Tell you what i will race you in my other 33 probably a we bit lighter but about same looks in side. Then you will need a bit more help. lol :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Mick


No Problem...

I can´t wait this it´s what race it´s all about can´t wait.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

EndlessR said:


> Good post Rain, Good Idea smokey on the timing slips if either can`t make it on the day, so we could say, fastest 0-400m for 2008.
> 
> Think its only fair for both R33s to have an engine bay introduction photo (this was taken today)


This was last week i will post a few new one's on as soon as the new turbos are on.











Mick


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Now if you want a fair race i will race you in my drag car same as yours.

Although my road car would still beat it hands down.


So its up to you Matts and Endless. Do you want a fair race IE race the same sort of 33.


Mick


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Now if you want a fair race i will race you in my drag car same as yours.
> 
> Although my road car would still beat it hands down.
> 
> ...


I think you will need both cars:smokin: 

it´s up to you.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Ok mate just the one then. Were ever you want with you driving I am in my Drag car and you in your endless drag car. lol and i will race you for your car winner takes all no problem what so ever.

Mick


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Wouldn't it just be easier to just get Mick and Matts and get them to both get their dicks out in the presence of an independant judge with a suitably calibrated measuring stick?


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Here you go Matts.


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## drifter-boy (Apr 28, 2006)

will be a close call no doubt but as stated which will win endless or jun lemon now theres another car on the scene 

only way to find out is on the strip best out of 5 so less talking more action lol


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

This is my final post on this as it will turn stupid.

You know were to find me i am allways here.


Mick


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Will certainly be interesting to see who wins if the race takes place.. I don't think overall power of either car will be the decider, it'll be down to launch technique and setup, both cars have enough power to run similar times, would also be good to have a pro style start, where the reaction time will count for everything :smokin:

Can't wait for it to happen


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## munro (Oct 3, 2006)

Matts

If you come over and run in this new series at Shakey it would be awesome
we could then see three 8 second Skylines running at the same event.

you will be able to show Mick and Keith Cowie how to drive lol


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## Irish GTR (Apr 23, 2007)

winner takes losers car I say.


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Ok mate just the one then. Were ever you want with you driving I am in my Drag car and you in your endless drag car. lol and i will race you for your car winner takes all no problem what so ever.
> 
> Mick


Your a funny guy Mickopcorn: 

It´s only a race take it easy.

I´ve heard that santa pod it´s a nice track so i will find a date i can take off
from work and the race it´s on then.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Your car wouldn't meet the required specifications for Santa pod i am afraid. Not many will be using the Pod this year. So it Shakespeare. 3 Skylines in the 8's daddy.

Mick


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

m6beg said:


> Your car wouldn't meet the required specifications for Santa pod i am afraid. Not many will be using the Pod this year. So it Shakespeare. 3 Skylines in the 8's daddy.
> 
> Mick


Hi Mick

I will be driving all the way from Aberdeen down to Shakespeare for all 5 rounds of this new series.

Cant wait to see the skylines running in the 8s


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Your car wouldn't meet the required specifications for Santa pod i am afraid. Not many will be using the Pod this year. So it Shakespeare. 3 Skylines in the 8's daddy.
> 
> Mick


I have the date´s when it´s in shakespeare.

I will tell you asap what date i can come over:clap:


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Here you go Matts.


mick, *you* asked for a race against your lemon, then you decided the endless car was a drag car (not in the street class which its always run in) 
then you decide we have a pro drag car? so then use your new toy....lol your all over the place mate.

But just for the record....

considering your actual drag car uses an airshifter with flatshift, full drag slicks, and has a chassi that cannot be returned to road car status....the difference between the 2 cars is night and day.

Here is the Endless Racing R33 timing slip.









You will notice the cars have the following differences in times
(one is run on high quality FIA surface, the other is slightly down hill....sendai)

However: 
Santa pod is a fully glued track
Sendai has none

So I am sure you will agree that the circuits are almost even (grip vs gravity) 
One has what the other hasnt

Then the cars differences in times

60ft: 0.234 duke over endless
333ft: 0.496 duke over endless
660ft: 0.600 duke over endless
1000ft: 0.686 duke over endless

Both cars had exactly the same terminal speed and the 0-400m was only 0.732 time difference in total.

Endless-R ran Nittos and 1350kg chassi and Holinger (full glass) full normal doors etc with door trim, normal trunk

Duke circa 1200kg (at a guess) airshifter, 7kg each wheels, sheet frp trunk, and flat shift.

Your tires gave you 0.234 sec advantage at the start, take that way from the total finish time difference of 0.732 gives you 0.498.....then you have around 150kg lighter car, transmission that requires no clutch and also no reason to lose boost (flat shift) 

0.498 doesnt seem that big after all (for a pro drag car):thumbsup:

Now I am off to bed as its 6:22am in Japan and I am a little tired


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

EndlessR said:


> mick, *you* asked for a race against your lemon, then you decided the endless car was a drag car (not in the street class which its always run in)
> then you decide we have a pro drag car? so then use your new toy....lol your all over the place mate.
> 
> But just for the record....
> ...


lol, are you for real Rick, wake up fella. A chassis that cant be returned to road car status. I am not quite sure where or from whom you got that info but it is a long way from the truth. By the way why is Matts car back in Japan, surley not for the other five pistons ?






Smokey :smokin:


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Smokey 1 said:


> lol, are you for real Rick, wake up fella. A chassis that cant be returned to road car status. I am not quite sure where or from whom you got that info but it is a long way from the truth. By the way why is Matts car back in Japan, surley not for the other five pistons ?
> 
> Smokey :smokin:


For real John, the car has no inner fenders in the engine bay....(you can see the wheels through the engine bay) you try returning that back to normal without a new front clip to a suitable safty level.

No John, just back for a few upgrades for 2008 season.:smokin: 

Tell you what I did notice tho, 

Duke time vs endless time slip

The endless car accelerated an extra 13.47kmh faster than the duke r33 between 201.168m to 402.336m finish:smokin:


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

EndlessR said:


> For real John, the car has no inner fenders in the engine bay....(you can see the wheels through the engine bay) you try returning that back to normal without a new front clip to a suitable safty level.
> 
> No John, just back for a few upgrades for 2008 season.:smokin:
> 
> ...


And there was me thinking you where off to bed as for replacing inner fenders? do you mean inner wheel arches, you must do. Nothing that cant be replaced and as for safety standards once Mr Robinson has finished the cage there will be no issues with regards to safety. I find it rather heart warming that you back your customers up so much but you and wool over my eyes wont happen, well not again that is.





Smokey :wavey:


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Smokey 1 said:


> And there was me thinking you where off to bed as for replacing inner fenders? do you mean inner wheel arches, you must do. Nothing that cant be replaced and as for safety standards once Mr Robinson has finished the cage there will be no issues with regards to safety. I find it rather heart warming that you back your customers up so much but you and wool over my eyes wont happen, well not again that is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



actually John, I only had 2 hrs today and Im back.:thumbsup: 
without getting into an arguement, or making comments like you have done which I don`t get at all..lol (maybe need more sleep)

I said your cars chassi cannot be returned easily to a full road R33, I know it can be made stronger as any chassi can, but its not the same as running with an OEM chassi as I am sure you will agree.........the point it the duke and the endless car are very different cars, mick wanted to race the lemon initially, but now has substituted the duke R33 for some reason (think about the movie snatch) "you can`t change f..........":wavey: then think about this poll and the title.:thumbsup: 

Nighty night john:nervous:


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Matsson said:


> I think you will need both cars:smokin:
> 
> it´s up to you.



yep saw the poll at the beginning of the thread and the title. Somewhere on page two it all changed a bit. Firstly Matts was going to put weight into his car and then he wanted to race both of Micks R33's



EndlessR said:


> the point it the duke and the endless car are very different cars,


As are the Super Lemon and the endless R33 but I dont know a lot about the white R33 just what I read on here  . If Matts car could come over here to the UK and conform to the TOTB rules then maybe Matts you could run for team Skyline this year, get some points for the team along the way. I am sure it can easily be arranged to line up against the Lemon at Elvington.



DRAGandDRIFT said:


> Just had a phone cal from Mats, we were using a G-meter just to a get a very rough idea and get used to the car on a private airfield,
> 
> running slightly under 1.8bar, best time was 10.41 @ 140.6mph with a bad launch.
> 
> ...


This was the only time I could find that Matts has run in his white R33, have you ran any better times than this Matts? 


Smokey :smokin:


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

Smokey 1 said:


> yep saw the poll at the beginning of the thread and the title. Somewhere on page two it all changed a bit. Firstly Matts was going to put weight into his car and then he wanted to race both of Micks R33's
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Smokey!

Yapp i have made better time´s. 

I was using vpms109 octane fuel doesn´t worked on my engine so i send the car back to japan to get it mapped on vp103 octane fuel.

Mats


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

That's a great idea Smokey :smokin: :smokin: 

Matts how about it TOTB. It would be brilliant to have you on the team.

See what you think.

Mick


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## Dave_R1001 (Nov 24, 2002)

Pavlo said:


> Wouldn't it just be easier to just get Mick and Matts and get them to both get their dicks out in the presence of an independant judge with a suitably calibrated measuring stick?


:chuckle:


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Why are people saying that nobody will run at pod this year?  seems strange that people would encourage others away from racing there, simply because they have some stricter rules for the pro cars, afterall they've had their fair share of deaths over the years.
Its also got the best surface by a mile, if its good enough for Top fuel and NitroFC its good enough for skylines lol.
Needless to say i'll be watching the events at Shakespeare with some enthusiasm! and covering the racing whereever it happens..

I know of one race i'd love to see more than anything else in drag racing, and thats the Duke vs Fuujin :smokin: 

I'd buy that for a dollar! :chuckle:


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

This thread was started by someone not owning either car .quick blast against Lemon and Endless and now it's gone all high tech and the cars have changed Lol:chuckle:


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

I spoke to Matts today on the phone and we had a great crack.

Matts is a great fella who has a great car (not as good as the Lemon of course) :chuckle: 

A lot of people need to chill out when IE big named cars are talked about.

The Lemon is an R33 gtr same as everyone's skyline on here for model of course.

People i think the lemon. WOW. The lemon its my baby. I wouldn't give two flying fooks if the car ran a 12 next year to be honest. I love it just need to get road use now. And do my top speed mission.

Without my mate Rob i wouldn't even own this car i would of sold it a long time ago so big up Rob.

And to tell you all the gods own truth a would give the Lemon away tomorrow if i had to chose between my mate's and the car that's why i am here and here to stay.

IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE CARS.

Mick


ps





































































But i have another one that will do the business :bowdown1: :bowdown1: :bowdown1:


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Grex said:


> I know of one race i'd love to see more than anything else in drag racing, and thats the Duke vs Fuujin :smokin:


You know last year was one of the biggest disappointments for me, thinking I was going to see the HKS R33 GT-R race the HTL R32 GT-R... I'd say any red blooded Skyline lover would have had that as the drag race to see. Shame HKS are a bunch of wusses!!


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Grex said:


> Why are people saying that nobody will run at pod this year?  seems strange that people would encourage others away from racing there, simply because they have some stricter rules for the pro cars, afterall they've had their fair share of deaths over the years.
> Its also got the best surface by a mile, if its good enough for Top fuel and NitroFC its good enough for skylines lol.
> Needless to say i'll be watching the events at Shakespeare with some enthusiasm! and covering the racing whereever it happens..
> 
> ...



Grex mate 

We own the Duke now buts not all about challenging anyone at the min.
Andy has built a very very fast car with more to come without a shadow of a doubt. I need to get to grips with the car it will have more power now so its unread territory for me and the car. To be honest with you if it blows it blows i will be going for a 7 without a shadow of a doubt backed up the very first time i get in her. If i get a 12 no props its all about learning. But we have the car now so game on we will try our up most achieve the euros first 7's backed up.


Mick

Edit to say.

Has everyone forgot about Keith's car???? Might be in for a big surprise there as well. 3 cars chasing the 7's.

Great year for the GTR I RECON.


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## Big Mark (Nov 27, 2002)

m6beg said:


> Has everyone forgot about Keith's car???? Might be in for a big surprise there as well. 3 cars chasing the 7's.


Might be a certain GTS making a good name for itself again too. Could be a bloody good year for Skylines on the strip


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

Hi Mick!

you are a nice fella to and hopefully i can bring the car to uk
and meet all the big boys and maby have a race ore two.

Mats


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

m6beg said:


> Grex mate
> 
> We own the Duke now buts not all about challenging anyone at the min.
> Andy has built a very very fast car with more to come without a shadow of a doubt. I need to get to grips with the car it will have more power now so its unread territory for me and the car. To be honest with you if it blows it blows i will be going for a 7 without a shadow of a doubt backed up the very first time i get in her. If i get a 12 no props its all about learning. But we have the car now so game on we will try our up most achieve the euros first 7's backed up..


Good stuff,

I remember when the Duke first came to the UK and saw it run 11s and high 10s, each time it came out it ran quicker, it seemed to take Tim a while to learn how to launch it, but when he did, it was right on the numbers.. 




m6beg said:


> Has everyone forgot about Keith's car???? Might be in for a big surprise there as well. 3 cars chasing the 7's.
> 
> Great year for the GTR I RECON.


I think Keith has slipped out of the limelight by not attending any of the more major events like Japshow, or anywhere where the crowds turn up, with the exception of TOTB, (which is only once a year)
If he wants to get noticed and develop the accolade the car deserves I think he should run in some of the best known events, he'd be more involved with the press/magazines and people in general, if that was the case.
Its ok running in RWYBs at shakespeare where there are hardly any rules or competition, but neither Keith or the car will gain the biggest publicity that way.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Matsson said:


> Hi Mick!
> 
> you are a nice fella to and hopefully i can bring the car to uk
> and meet all the big boys and maby have a race ore two.
> ...


Good man Mats. :bowdown1: 

Do me a favour though please, Don't bring that mong Rick with you cheers mate.


Mick


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

m6beg said:


> Good man Mats. :bowdown1:
> 
> Do me a favour though please, Don't bring that mong Rick with you cheers mate.
> 
> ...



:chuckle: 

Smokey


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Good man Mats. :bowdown1:
> 
> Do me a favour though please, Don't bring that mong Rick with you cheers mate.
> 
> ...


Thankyou Mickopcorn: 

Rick


----------



## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Good man Mats. :bowdown1:
> 
> Do me a favour though please, Don't bring that mong Rick with you cheers mate.
> 
> ...


Hi!

Hhahah, You are crazy guy:chuckle: 

I can´t promise you anything i´ll do my best.

Mats


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## munro (Oct 3, 2006)

m6beg said:


> Good man Mats. :bowdown1:
> 
> Do me a favour though please, Don't bring that mong Rick with you cheers mate.
> 
> ...



Mick

Rick is worse than a mong 

He drives a gtir what is that all about 

poor mans GTR lol


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Grex said:


> Good stuff,
> 
> I remember when the Duke first came to the UK and saw it run 11s and high 10s, each time it came out it ran quicker, it seemed to take Tim a while to learn how to launch it, but when he did, it was right on the numbers..
> 
> ...



I do know what you are on about Grex mate IE the big events!!

But Keith is just not like that that's him i know as he is one of my closest friends. And you wouldn't meet a nicer fella.

He keeps him self to him self. A lot of people don't like Keith because he speaks his mind. But to all of you on here how can you hate someone you don't even know!! (that's not at you grex mate)

He worships the gtr and has done massive achievements in his 32. So i recon lets get behind all of the skylines and not the people who spend every penny on them for all of us the watch and talk about. Without these great people what would we all be doing now??

One thing is for sure we have worked our buts off to get the new Prostreetdrag series on the ground.

It will be one of the biggest Drag events for all to enter.


Grex mate Keiths car is in the lime light with Sumo's pink, John Bradshores gts, And my white. Its a race to the 7's now i can feel it big time. The white will be done very very soon.

Just need a name for the white now. So any suggestions will be grateful. 

I recon the pure one.

Anyway KIETH COWIE RULES AND THE WHITE.

Bring it on 2008 i cant fooking wait.


Mick


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Munro said:


> Mick
> 
> Rick is worse than a mong
> 
> ...



Stop name bashing please, I didnt start this for you to start calling people names. Honestly how old are you guys. Ridiculous.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Rain said:


> Stop name bashing please, I didnt start this for you to start calling people names. Honestly how old are you guys. Ridiculous.


Not as old as you mate. And you started this silly stupid poll.

1. For why???

Never mind the Lemon or Endless car they are both cool.

Do you want a race???

If not please don't try and cause arguments among friends. Matts and i are are cool.


Its you that needs to have a look back no one else.

Sorry but true.


Mick

Edit to say.


A fooking poll on who will win a race good god. Get a poll on getting the cars to race together that would be more beneficial Mats knows he will win. I know i will win so what next Rain???

Do it on the black stuff mate not on the keyboard!!

Mick


----------



## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

_Not as old as you mate. And you started this silly stupid poll.

1. For why???

Never mind the Lemon or Endless car they are both cool.
_

*What has any of that got to do with name calling, I just wanted to see what people thought, how is that wrong?* 


_Do you want a race???_

*No thanks i haven't got anything to prove to anyone. *

_If not please don't try and cause arguments among friends. Matts and i are are cool.


Its you that needs to have a look back no one else.

Sorry but true._

*I never tried to instigate anything Mick stop putting words in my mouth.*

_Mick

Edit to say.


A fooking poll on who will win a race good god. Get a poll on getting the cars to race together that would be more beneficial Mats knows he will win. I know i will win so what next Rain???

Do it on the black stuff mate not on the keyboard!!

Mick_

*The Poll was a general poll, on a public forum to see what people think because I thought it would be interesting. 

It was going fine, until people started name calling.*


----------



## tanaka (Sep 10, 2007)

Mick san. has gaving me to look at this a few days ago but i never got to him but is very soory for comming to it back. Endless car 33 gtr is very good proof of the 9 second mission ans some times to be at sendia to do the 8 mission, when we did ran at HKS endlees did altough do the run of a 8. Jun did not came to race of hks. jun super is very same as 33 of the endless but far more heavy for road we try acchive to do everything in the road 350 k/m for the super. if both car won race in same with and weight Jun would win of vmore power. but diffrent car. 

Mick san.

I have talked to masatomo Nomura to do Duke racing and we are very happy to be with talking and very happy for to talk.

It is good here tio see everyting we have done proven to your taste.

Jun


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Thank you very much Mr Tanaka for spending your time.
I will be in touch very soon.

Michael Begley.


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Munro said:


> Mick
> 
> Rick is worse than a mong
> 
> ...


LOL I dont even know who you are...
BUT as you seem so interested in me, 

I do drive a GTI-R, as it brings back very good memories, and as an every day car, to me its perfect.....and where we live in Kobe, a gt-r would be hard pressed to keep up with my little s-tire 4 pot ......small country roads.....love them

Rick


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

lol opcorn: opcorn: 


Mick


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

How about "Sheepish" for the white one mick? Or japanese equievelnt for Sheep? (sorry, must be an Aberdeen thing with the wooly obsession!!lol)


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## Vips (May 13, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Not as old as you mate. And you started this silly stupid poll.
> 
> 1. For why???
> 
> ...


It seemed like quite a good idea (poll) until it seems certain members can't even have a civilised discussion.

Do you want a Race??? LOL. Why are you throwing so much agro around, calling people names? I still have masses of respect for the car, just a big shame about the driver! :GrowUp:


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## ChristianR (May 31, 2005)

lol this thread is so funny, typical internet forum!

it reads like mick is now scared the lemon wont win so he wants to drag his duke car against the endless car instead!! lol


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

ChristianR said:


> lol this thread is so funny, typical internet forum!
> 
> it reads like mick is now scared the lemon wont win so he wants to drag his duke car against the endless car instead!! lol


lol dont you start     


Mick


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Just for the record.

Lemon is here to stay and will race any other skyline in road trim full stop.......


Don't want anyone thinking that i am scared because quite the opposite to tell you the truth. I do not give two flying fooks. 

One car i wont race though is Smokey's 32. Fooking thing will deafen you them dirty whistley jobs i dunno. Why can't some people be normall.:smokin: :smokin: :smokin: 


Regards.


Michelmuss


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

I think the Lemon will win, purely on the amount of hot air Mick has been able to create on this thread! Maybe he can win something if he gets his 4wd working, and stops snapping driveshafts! But mick does have the best race suit in the world, so all competitions of speed are a moot point. I've also been approached by someone with a suitably calibrated measuring stick, but Tweenierob told me, that based on his personal experience, a new one would be needed for Mick. I don't know what that means, I try to think about it but I think my subconcious mind protects me from the truth.


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

ChristianR said:


> lol this thread is so funny, typical internet forum!
> 
> it reads like mick is now scared the lemon wont win so he wants to drag his duke car against the endless car instead!! lol


:chuckle: :smokin: opcorn:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Good to see some friendly banter, just the way I like it.

The only way to REALLY compare 2 cars like this is to race against each other on the same track on the same day on a pro tree and heads up so the driver has as much to do with the win as the car.

Anything other than heads up with reaction times acounted for is not real drag racing IMO.

Good luck to you both

Rob


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## R4LLY (Aug 9, 2006)

Something should be organised to get all the Big name Skyline tuners together...


Jun, Endless, RIPS, RK, all on one track in the UK on the same day....:smokin: :smokin: 

RIPS 240Z Would give the street legal car's a run for their money.... IMO


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

What is the UK record for a jap street car with full interior, full exhaust, mufflers etc on street tyres?

Could we have a wheelstand competition as part of it?  300 feet down the strip and still up is my best so far. Not the fastest way to run but really good fun. lol

Rob


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## R4LLY (Aug 9, 2006)

Probably the Lemon?...

There are some v.quick UK based cars, however I don't think there are many apart from the Jun that run with interior and other full trim...


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Whats he run 9.95?
What about stripped interior, open exhaust jap street cars in the UK, what are they down to?


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi Rob

Our 0-400m board reads:

1: 9.08 (R32 TD06x2 but stripped driver seat only normal crank "know you like that" and Mickey Thompson)
2: 9.226 (R34 GT-R HKS Hi-Deck full weight, nitto 555r...no spoiler)
3: 9.35 (R32 TD06x2 normal crank, Nitto555)
4: 9.616 (R32 GT-R 3037s, full interior, full counter engine Nittos)
5: 9.820 (R34 GT-R 3240, HKS Hi-Deck, stripped, Nittos)
6: 9.874 (R32 GT-R full weight T88-38GK, Nitto)
7: 9.922 (R34 GT-R 3240, HKS Hi-Deck, Full weight, Normal tires)

not sure if thats of interest?

Rick


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Cool, so the first place car would weigh about the same as our 240z (1300kg) or maybe a bit less, any idea of the mph of the 9.08 car?

Good info , thanks.

Rob


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Cool, so the first place car would weigh about the same as our 240z (1300kg) or maybe a bit less, any idea of the mph of the 9.08 car?
> 
> Good info , thanks.
> 
> Rob


Yes around 1300kg, but the terminal speed on this run was only 244kmh, after his best run we asked what had happend and he told us he let off, as the car was shaking a bit at the top end. The other customer ran 268kmh (2nd place time)

Our 1st place should have been around that too......I have the run somewhere, will try and upload it for you.

Rick


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## soggy (Apr 28, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> What is the UK record for a jap street car with full interior, full exhaust, mufflers etc on street tyres?
> 
> Could we have a wheelstand competition as part of it?  300 feet down the strip and still up is my best so far. Not the fastest way to run but really good fun. lol
> 
> Rob


I believe Rocket Ronnie maybe the fastest with 9.74 qtr in road trim.


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

soggy said:


> I believe Rocket Ronnie maybe the fastest with 9.74 qtr in road trim.


Thats actually probably correct, although hasn't he given up with skylines now? 
His R33 was one of my favourites of all time,


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

m6beg said:


> Just for the record.
> 
> Lemon is here to stay and will race any other skyline in road trim full stop.......
> 
> ...



Think thats because once you lend me the Holinger :chuckle: you will have to use a H-pattern like mine  

And the whistely job will be on song from start to finish :bowdown1: 



Smokey :smokin:


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

R4LLY said:


> Probably the Lemon?...
> 
> There are some v.quick UK based cars, however I don't think there are many apart from the Jun that run with interior and other full trim...


Timeslip from the Japshow finale 2007: Lemon (HKS STR 22) against my 34GTR everyday car.










I got whooped by the Lemon's 10.29 on the left of the timeslip as expected and I think it then went on to maybe a 10.23 to win the day. 

I know it's supposedly a different beast altogether now, (so's mine I guess as it runs proper boost now), and fair do's as the Lemon was the fastest car on the day and that's what mattered.

But to put those times in context the full weight GTaRt R33 ran a 10.079 at 134 to win the same event in 2005.

I think there certainly were faster full trim Jap cars last year - maybe a few supras for example. As for this year I'll look forward to seeing the Lemon in action. opcorn:


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## R4LLY (Aug 9, 2006)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Whats he run 9.95?
> What about stripped interior, open exhaust jap street cars in the UK, what are they down to?


Not a Skyline, but Andy.F got 9.1 @ 160 in his STI Type R.......


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## SmigzyGTR (Mar 20, 2006)

What does Norris' Evo run?


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## Listerofsmeg (Jul 4, 2006)

think he managed a 9.4 last year....


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

blue34 said:


> Timeslip from the Japshow finale 2007: Lemon (HKS STR 22) against my 34GTR everyday car.
> 
> I got whooped by the Lemon's 10.29 on the left of the timeslip as expected and I think it then went on to maybe a 10.23 to win the day.
> 
> ...


Mick ran two 9.9's in the Lemon in 2007 - one at TOTB and one a couple of days later at Santa Pod.


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

fair do's


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Looks like Lemon was asleep on the tree tho and if blue 34 had cut a good light he would have actually won that race.

In NZ with an R/T like the Lemon had he'd get beaten by 11 second cars every time.

Rob


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## ChristianR (May 31, 2005)

R4LLY said:


> Not a Skyline, but Andy.F got 9.1 @ 160 in his STI Type R.......


it's hardly an everyday car!


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

The lemon pulled like a train in the second eighth, I think Mick said his 
4wd wasn't working properly at that time, he caught and past me at about 175yards. - But I guess that was last year, so lots of changes since then...


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## rasonline (Mar 24, 2005)

The Norris Evo and AndyF subaru are very very far from full up road cars.


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Looks like Lemon was asleep on the tree tho and if blue 34 had cut a good light he would have actually won that race.
> 
> In NZ with an R/T like the Lemon had he'd get beaten by 11 second cars every time.
> 
> Rob


This is so true though,

I'm getting sick of people who spend billions of pounds on their cars, but no effort whatsoever on driving them or launching properly. And equally sick of drag events where the RT isn't measured and the clock starts when it leaves stage not when the tree goes green....
Don't see how you can claim to run a "pro car" if you can't launch it properly, its not even a race.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

The whole point of drag racing is to pit the drivers against each other just as much as the cars, many a race has been won by the slower car if he gets the holeshot.
There's a saying "you sleep, you lose" so true.
I think any class of drag racing should be run heads up or have RT's included, its seems just crazy to me that guys running at proper strips in pretty quick cars don't have to follow the most basic of drag rules and that a guy who sleeps on the tree can still win even if the other guy gets to the finish line first, I mean WTF is that all about!!!!!!


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

so true... the speed is less important than the race itself, years ago I won a trophy with the z club for fastest stock 240Z at 15.8 not fast at all but had to work really hard to get it, burning out without a limited slip diff, mates bouncing on the rear wing, to get the other wheel going - huge fun...


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Its such a letdown as a spectator as well, to watch 2 hyped up cars staged and ready to go, the race people have waited maybe years to see, been through all the hype on the internet, listened to the drivers bigging their car up like its going out of fashion.... The tree goes green...... a second elapses, one car launched..... another second elapses and the other driver is still sat there waiting for everything to be "right" it sucks.

Nothing beats watching Promod/FC/topfuel, where the reaction times are absolutley tiny, makes for much better racing.


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Grex said:


> Its such a letdown as a spectator as well, to watch 2 hyped up cars staged and ready to go, the race people have waited maybe years to see, been through all the hype on the internet, listened to the drivers bigging their car up like its going out of fashion.... The tree goes green...... a second elapses, one car launched..... another second elapses and the other driver is still sat there waiting for everything to be "right" it sucks.
> 
> Nothing beats watching Promod/FC/topfuel, where the reaction times are absolutley tiny, makes for much better racing.


big difference from Promod/top fuel cars and someones road going GTR dont you think ? The Jap car shoot outs usually mean first over the line wins, nothing wrong with that. The in-car footage from the Jap show finale shows the Lemon getting left behind on the line but then steam up the strip to overtake the endless R32 and take the win. Now that was good to watch a bloody close run race.



Smokey :smokin:


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Smokey 1 said:


> big difference from Promod/top fuel cars and someones road going GTR dont you think ? The Jap car shoot outs usually mean first over the line wins, nothing wrong with that. The in-car footage from the Jap show finale shows the Lemon getting left behind on the line but then steam up the strip to overtake the endless R32 and take the win. Now that was good to watch a bloody close run race.
> 
> 
> 
> Smokey :smokin:


No theres no difference, its there to test reaction time, doesn't matter whether its a fiesta or a 8000bhp nitro car, drag racing is usually won and lost in the first 100ft and whoever is first off the tree wins, its driver skill and control which is required in drag racing, not just sitting there and go when you want, defeats the object of it.

I could if I wanted go and borrow a load of cash and make drag GTR, and I could turn up and run good times by simply sitting there and launching regardless of when the tree goes green. Reaction time isn't measured, there is no real race, just timing and its all about the car and not the drivers ability.

I saw the run you're referring to with the lemon catching the endless car, but it only caught it because it had enough power to do so, and the RT wasn't added to the time so it wasn't a race at all, a race is when both cars are timed leaving the line at exactly the same time, all that happened there was 2 cars being timed independantly of one another, like a time trial in 2 lanes.

It would probably been as close if I had raced the lemon on my pushbike with a 30 second head start.


----------



## Tim (Jan 6, 2003)

Grex said:


> I saw the run you're referring to with the lemon catching the endless car, but it only caught it because it had enough power to do so, and the RT wasn't added to the time so it wasn't a race at all, a race is when both cars are timed leaving the line at exactly the same time, all that happened there was 2 cars being timed independantly of one another, like a time trial in 2 lanes.


 
Of course it was a race. 
First over the line was the winner, nothing to do with times.


----------



## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Tim said:


> Of course it was a race.
> First over the line was the winner, nothing to do with times.


Its a race in the same way a time trial is a race, the cars are timed independantly of one another.
And its not always first over the line who wins, for this reason, if the car in lane 1 does an 11 second run, then the car in lane 2 sits there for 5 seconds after the tree goes green. but still runs a 9, he comes over the line last but still wins the race. Otherwise they'd be no point in reaction time in pro drag racing as they would be no advantage to getting off the line first.


----------



## Tim (Jan 6, 2003)

Lemon V Endless 32 you mentioned was the final.
First over the line was the winner, nothing to do with times.

I think you're getting confused between qualifiers and eliminators.


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Tim said:


> Lemon V Endless 32 you mentioned was the final.
> First over the line was the winner, nothing to do with times.
> 
> I think you're getting confused between qualifiers and eliminators.


That's what I though Tim. You run the best time you can regardless of reaction during qualifying and your time puts you up against a slower or quicker car depending on this time. Then in the eliminators first over the line wins, nothing to do with the quickest time, not a time trial it was definitely a race.


Smokey :smokin:


----------



## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Tim said:


> Lemon V Endless 32 you mentioned was the final.
> First over the line was the winner, nothing to do with times.
> 
> I think you're getting confused between qualifiers and eliminators.


So in the eliminators, if Mick had come second over the line, but still ran a quicker time he would have been out?


----------



## Tim (Jan 6, 2003)

Grex said:


> So in the eliminators, if Mick had come second over the line, but still ran a quicker time he would have been out?


Yes, first over the line is the winner.


----------



## Tim (Jan 6, 2003)

Smokey 1 said:


> That's what I though Tim. You run the best time you can regardless of reaction during qualifying and your time puts you up against a slower or quicker car depending on this time. Then in the eliminators first over the line wins, nothing to do with the quickest time, not a time trial it was definitely a race.
> 
> 
> Smokey :smokin:


Exactly.


----------



## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Thats the way it should be I guess, 

I need to spend more time looking at whats going on instead of down my camera.


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Grex said:


> Thats the way it should be I guess,
> 
> I need to spend more time looking at whats going on instead of down my camera.


No No No No, now you know the rules keep taking those great photo's mate



Smokey :bowdown1:


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## GTR R34 (Oct 2, 2002)

I vote for the lemon because it's a 100% road car.


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

GTR R34 said:


> I vote for the lemon because it's a 100% road car.


Both run in the same class tho? Ours is a road car too


----------



## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

EndlessR said:


> Both run in the same class tho? Ours is a road car too


Road legal and being a road car are 2 completely different things in my opinion, TOTB highlighted that for me.
Norris Evo staged against Rocket Ronnie?


----------



## munro (Oct 3, 2006)

EndlessR said:


> Both run in the same class tho? Ours is a road car too


do you have shares in Endless

just wonder with the way you keep going on about our cars.


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

matt j said:


> Road legal and being a road car are 2 completely different things in my opinion, TOTB highlighted that for me.
> Norris Evo staged against Rocket Ronnie?


I agree, but both cars can be driven on the road, and both are in the same class 0-400m.


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Munro said:


> do you have shares in Endless
> 
> just wonder with the way you keep going on about our cars.


That is a classic.....made my day:chuckle:


----------



## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

EndlessR said:


> I agree, but both cars can be driven on the road, and both are in the same class 0-400m.


That's my point, they shouldn't be in the same class.
One is over 300kg lighter than the other for starters...

TOTB was set about to find the so called best road car, the rules allowed for the cars to develop to what you see today, ie road legal cars with everything stripped out but hey, people want to win and follow the rules to the letter (I'm not knocking them for that).

Personally, I think that there should be a class for normal "Joe Public" road cars, not tuner prepared race versions pretending to be road cars. Any car wanting to enter as a road car should have the full interior in place, carry the designated number of seats and run the kerbside weigh designated by the manufacturer. But alas it will never happen.

As to who'd win in this particular race, it's a lottery for a number of reasons!
I'd just be happy to see it take place and for it to be of benefit to the marque and community :smokin:


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Sorry I wasnt reffering to TOTB classes, but normal street class rules. 

I can understand totb, and your right, but in 0-400m rwyb both R33s would fight in the same class.




matt j said:


> That's my point, they shouldn't be in the same class.
> One is over 300kg lighter than the other for starters...
> 
> TOTB was set about to find the so called best road car, the rules allowed for the cars to develop to what you see today, ie road legal cars with everything stripped out but hey, people want to win and follow the rules to the letter (I'm not knocking them for that).
> ...


----------



## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

EndlessR said:


> Sorry I wasnt reffering to TOTB classes, but normal street class rules.
> 
> I can understand totb, and your right, but in 0-400m rwyb both R33s would fight in the same class.


Didn't realise you were only talking RWYB events, sorry mate.


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

matt j said:


> Didn't realise you were only talking RWYB events, sorry mate.


I didnt even think about totb to be honest, forgot all about it

Has santa pod rules got very strict for RWYB too? or just main shows? Or is it down to the cars running in a certain class?


----------



## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

Unless i am mistaken, i can turn up at RWYB and run 7's as my car stands (wishful thinking), but to run in the competition ive gotta replace my cage with another one, fit a kevlar flywheel shield etc.

Rob


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

tweenierob said:


> Unless i am mistaken, i can turn up at RWYB and run 7's as my car stands (wishful thinking), but to run in the competition ive gotta replace my cage with another one, fit a kevlar flywheel shield etc.
> 
> Rob


Yeah mate you are mistaken, your car should only be good for a low nine





Smokey :chairshot


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

tweenierob said:


> Unless i am mistaken, i can turn up at RWYB and run 7's as my car stands (wishful thinking), but to run in the competition ive gotta replace my cage with another one, fit a kevlar flywheel shield etc.
> 
> Rob


Ahh ok, so it doesnt cover all the racing, thats not exactly safety across the board, unless santapod are looking to make RWYB rules the same in the future.

I would be more inclined to go to a RWYB at like you say you can run flat out without being disqualified from the class for going to quickly.


----------



## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

If you ran a 7 in a road car at santa pod you would be prevented from running further until you showed up with some safety "stuff".


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Yea you would get one run in Rob then show the pod all your safety ****.
very very sad. 

Mick


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Now when the white does its first Europe 7 in the street class as it is a street car. We will use shakespeare.

Mick


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

m6beg said:


> Now when the white does its first Europe 7 in the street class as it is a street car. We will use shakespeare.
> 
> Mick


The car which until all to recently was known as the Duke, is a street car? I thought it was an all out drag car?

Does this mean when you aim for a 7, it'll be fully road legal be MOTd and Taxed?


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

m6beg said:


> Now when the white does its first Europe 7 in the street class as it is a street car. We will use shakespeare.
> 
> Mick


Good luck to you and I mean that but to aim to be running 7s in a 'street' GTR is a MASSIVE undertaking and in my opinion unless it runs on a DOT tyre that is properly legal for the street in the UK, has interior, full exhaust, mufflers, all glass, lights, wipers and EVERYTHING it should have to be able to drive home from the strip fully legally (ie around 1400-1450kg) then you can't claim it to be a 7 in a street GTR.

In fact, knowing even a small % of what heat treatments went through to get a 7 in a fully dedicated lightweight drag GTR I'd say your being very optomistic, but hey, you might have a majical 2500hp RB with a majical CVT transmission or know something secret none of us do so good luck to ya!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

i have always believed in what the organisers at the pod do with the Street drag cars that run in the european championship, they must all undertake a drive out of the pod to the local petrol station, fill up and drive back, then run on that fuel untouched the next day, this is undertaken by all competitors, even a 7 second calibra!!!

thats the way it should be done to prove any car is a PROPER street car.

just my 2pence worth!


----------



## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

I agree with Luffy on that one, thatd sort it out for sure, I dont agree with any car that needs race fuel to run full boost being a proper street car regardless of other mods.


----------



## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

m6beg said:


> Now when the white does its first Europe 7 in the street class as it is a street car. We will use shakespeare.
> 
> Mick


Hi Mick,

Which car are you running in the ProStreet Series at Shakespeare??

Cheers.......Jeff


----------



## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

tweenierob said:


> Unless i am mistaken, i can turn up at RWYB and run 7's as my car stands (wishful thinking), but to run in the competition ive gotta replace my cage with another one, fit a kevlar flywheel shield etc.
> 
> Rob


i'm fairly sure Mick saw what nearly happened to Ross at the pod last year when his clutch let go, if that car had been RHD he'd of been missing a foot or the lower part of his leg


----------



## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

I honestly do not understand why people are complaining about the rules at Pod, and running off to shakespeare to "do their own thing"
The rules arent there to ruin everyones fun, they exist to keep it safe, if theres another big accident and someone gets killed, like the spectator did in 2006, the place will get shut down.


----------



## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

Agreed - and i struggle to understand the discrepancy between one track & another ie/ Shakespeare being happy to hold the series - must be down to their own insurances i guess.

Bottom line though is the series will happen regardless & good luck to the guys taking part BUT bearing in mind how many thousands of pounds get spent on some of the cars in terms of mods & performance it seems bloody daft scrimping or not bothering to have the best safety kit  

I hope to christ noone gets badly hurt as it is just not worth it & everyone should be running a flywheel shield regardless of times - those bloody things are like bombs going off when they explode !! 




Grex said:


> I honestly do not understand why people are complaining about the rules at Pod, and running off to shakespeare to "do their own thing"
> The rules arent there to ruin everyones fun, they exist to keep it safe, if theres another big accident and someone gets killed, like the spectator did in 2006, the place will get shut down.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Ludders said:


> Hi Mick,
> 
> Which car are you running in the ProStreet Series at Shakespeare??
> 
> Cheers.......Jeff


My R33 road car.



Mick


----------



## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

m6beg said:


> My R33 road car.
> 
> Mick


Ha ha !! Is that the Lemon or are you running both??

Jeff


----------



## GeorgeGTR (Feb 16, 2006)

m6beg said:


> My R33 road car.
> 
> 
> 
> Mick


You still gonna run the Lemon next year Mick? We are bringing the Drag engine back to run into the 9's, it be good to run against yo again :smokin: 

George


----------



## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Good luck to you and I mean that but to aim to be running 7s in a 'street' GTR is a MASSIVE undertaking and in my opinion unless it runs on a DOT tyre that is properly legal for the street in the UK, has interior, full exhaust, mufflers, all glass, lights, wipers and EVERYTHING it should have to be able to drive home from the strip fully legally (ie around 1400-1450kg) then you can't claim it to be a 7 in a street GTR.
> 
> In fact, knowing even a small % of what heat treatments went through to get a 7 in a fully dedicated lightweight drag GTR I'd say your being very optomistic, but hey, you might have a majical 2500hp RB with a majical CVT transmission or know something secret none of us do so good luck to ya!!:thumbsup:


Not even Mick's Lemon is street legal. It would not pass an MOT on race day.


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

NISFAN said:


> Not even Mick's Lemon is street legal. It would not pass an MOT on race day.



We keep the passenger head light in the Whistely job just in case the old bill get the book out. It only takes two mins to replace the tomie item. The emissions will be a bit high on race gas but that can be swapped fairly easy.
The Lemon is driven on the road has an MOT, Tax and insurance, just a few tweak's before racing to help it along a little.

Our tow vehicle broke down at Santa Pod last year, so Mick drove the Lemon back to his place a little 153 miles away. Mick ran a 9 second 1/4 mile that day, the day before he ran a 9 at TOTB. Just to back the figures up, John had invited us to run on that private day. 










Smokey :smokin:


----------



## GTRSTILL (Jul 27, 2006)

Smokey 1 said:


> Our tow vehicle broke down at Santa Pod last year, so Mick drove the Lemon back to his place a little 153 miles away. Mick ran a 9 second 1/4 mile that day, the day before he ran a 9 at TOTB. Just to back the figures up, John had invited us to run on that private day.


Only two tanks of fuel then...


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GeorgeGTR said:


> You still gonna run the Lemon next year Mick? We are bringing the Drag engine back to run into the 9's, it be good to run against yo again :smokin:
> 
> George


Can't wait George mate. :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: 

Mick


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Well just an update to all the 93 votes against the Lemon.

Lemon is ready.:smokin: 

We have no power figures but rest assured the terminal speeds wont lie.

The car feels twice as fast now the acceleration is like driving the White but without the aid of the air shifter button.

Very surprisingly she comes on full boost @ 6.500 rpm. When its on boost she never really drops off. Changing gear pulls like the Bullet train to Tokyo:bowdown1: :bowdown1: 


So i will rest my case on the Drag Strip.

Its game on from the Tweenierob and Lemon.

I just hope after so much hard work and effort that Tweeinerob has done the Endless R33 GTR will turn up. I hope you are ready for a good spanking. You thought the Lemon was quick before. My god you will wish you never doubted the Lemon.

Tweenierob you are the man.:bowdown1: :bowdown1: :bowdown1: 

See you there guys.

And i can't wait to see you again Rick.



Mick


----------



## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

I so hope both these cars drag against each other cant wait!!


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

We are ready and waiting.


Mick


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Well just an update to all the 93 votes against the Lemon.
> 
> Lemon is ready.:smokin:
> 
> ...


lol your car still has to prove itself, so less talk and lets see what it does on the strip, then challenge Mattias.....8.9 vs your 9.8 prove they were very different cars as I am sure you agree. It would now make for very interesting watching as Mattias car has changed some what.

As for your wanting to see me again, I am very flattered...... 

Rick


----------



## xaero1 (Feb 9, 2004)

I've never seen somebody blow their own trumpet so much on a public forum. 

Mick I hope you get beaten. 

+1 supporter for the Endless Racing R33


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

xaero1 said:


> I've never seen somebody blow their own trumpet so much on a public forum.
> 
> Mick I hope you get beaten.
> 
> +1 supporter for the Endless Racing R33


       


Mick


----------



## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

m6beg said:


> Well just an update to all the 93 votes against the Lemon.
> 
> Lemon is ready.:smokin:
> 
> ...


Good to hear Mick.

Does that mean you might be getting close to a genuine 850-900hp now?


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

NISFAN said:


> Good to hear Mick.
> 
> Does that mean you might be getting close to a genuine 850-900hp now?


Nope just still around the 400 mark.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

Mick


----------



## bobstuart (Sep 30, 2006)

EndlessR said:


> lol your car still has to prove itself, so less talk and lets see what it does on the strip, then challenge Mattias.....8.9 vs your 9.8 prove they were very different cars as I am sure you agree. It would now make for very interesting watching as Mattias car has changed some what.
> 
> As for your wanting to see me again, I am very flattered......
> 
> Rick


Rick

One thing that you are forgetting is that the endless car has done nothing in europe so far, has it even run a 9 yet


----------



## munro (Oct 3, 2006)

bobstuart said:


> Rick
> 
> One thing that you are forgetting is that the endless car has done nothing in europe so far, has it even run a 9 yet


lol Well said Bobstuart

its never been on a drag strip in the uk yet. many have come and 99% of them have failed

so what power do you think the endls 33 car is running now rick?

the power the car runs always shows up in there trap speed. go on tell us? 

it would be nice to see if your power figures match the trap speed

i have saved this thread i think its brilliant

lemon for me


----------



## MacGTR (Dec 31, 2006)

The car is running over 1000 Wheel BHP at 2.3 bar and it is mapped up to 2.5 but the dyno can't really take any more power so it was not tested. There is no doubt if the car has enough power. Just how it puts it down!


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

MacGTR said:


> The car is running over 1000 Wheel BHP at 2.3 bar and it is mapped up to 2.5 but the dyno can't really take any more power so it was not tested. There is no doubt if the car has enough power. Just how it puts it down!



If the car is mapped to 2.5 bar, where did it get mapped? on the street ?

Well said and as stated above, its all about proving the power figures on the black stuff. The terminal speed should show the actual power to be wrong or right.















Smokey


----------



## MacGTR (Dec 31, 2006)

Smokey 1 said:


> If the car is mapped to 2.5 bar, where did it get mapped? on the street ?


Ask Mattison, in one of his previous posts he mentioned he wanted it to be mapped up to 2.5bar.

quote from http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/9...esterday-1000ps-over.html?highlight=endless-R


Matsson said:


> the plan was to take the car to 2,5bar but the owner of the dyno said
> you can´t go more than this because the car nearly maxed out the dyno.
> They had to stop on 2,3 bar but its still gonna be mapped to 2.5bar without
> nowing how much power it´s making when it´s going on max boost.
> ...


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

What mph do you guys think it "should do" with 1000-1100whp and about 1250-1300kg?


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Got to be around the 160 mph + Rob


Mick


----------



## MacGTR (Dec 31, 2006)

I think you are close to spot on there, Mick. Anyone know what kind of tyres and widths the Endless car will be running?


----------



## GPEGTR (Mar 4, 2008)

bobstuart said:


> Rick
> 
> One thing that you are forgetting is that the endless car has done nothing in europe so far, has it even run a 9 yet


bob/m6

how long has it taken to get the old jun car to do late 9's in the uk?
what was it supposed to have done in japan?

maybe we can git an indiction of what the endless one will do from that data

F


----------



## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

m6beg said:


> Got to be around the 160 mph + Rob
> 
> 
> Mick


Do you think the lemon will be able to dig in to the strip on the launch Mick? as well as adding all the extra power do you think you'll be able to use it to bring the times down, I remember seeing the lemon being plagued with traction issues do you rekon you've got it sorted?


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Lemon wieghs 1594 kg


Mick


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Grex said:


> Do you think the lemon will be able to dig in to the strip on the launch Mick? as well as adding all the extra power do you think you'll be able to use it to bring the times down, I remember seeing the lemon being plagued with traction issues do you rekon you've got it sorted?


Yep all sorted Grex mate.


Mick


----------



## GPEGTR (Mar 4, 2008)

m6 
what times did the jun car run in japan


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GPEGTR said:


> bob/m6
> 
> how long has it taken to get the old jun car to do late 9's in the uk?
> what was it supposed to have done in japan?
> ...


Abbey had the car for nearly 18 months and finally broke the cars record at TOTB. 10.26.

Tweenierob had the car for 5 weeks and we did a 9.9.

Jun's best ever time was 10.3.

Mick

edit to say its not a drag car.


----------



## GPEGTR (Mar 4, 2008)

so not much difference then on japan and uk times.
how long have you had it then Mick?

F.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GPEGTR said:


> so not much difference then on japan and uk times.
> how long have you had it then Mick?
> 
> F.



Massive difference mate have you ever tried to get a 9 second pass from a 10 second car?

Mick


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## GPEGTR (Mar 4, 2008)

No, my 32 wouldnt do a 10 thats for sure.

why are you drag racing it if its not a drag car?


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GPEGTR said:


> No, my 32 wouldnt do a 10 thats for sure.
> 
> why are you drag racing it if its not a drag car?


Because i love it.

And love people asking questions about why i do it.

Mick


----------



## GPEGTR (Mar 4, 2008)

good answer, 
some cars are not made for some things though so you may not be getting the best from it by drag racing it.
what was it made for if not drag?

F.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GPEGTR said:


> good answer,
> some cars are not made for some things though so you may not be getting the best from it by drag racing it.
> what was it made for if not drag?
> 
> F.


Firstly. Taking Wendy and the boys to Tesco's on a Sunday.

Then for Top Speed.

Mick


----------



## GPEGTR (Mar 4, 2008)

thats funny

jun built it for shopping rofl

thanks for info, good luck


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GPEGTR said:


> thats funny
> 
> jun built it for shopping rofl
> 
> thanks for info, good luck


Anytime dude :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 


Mick


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I think you should pull out the sequential and put a standard H pattern box back in it Mick seeing as its a true street car and then see how you go. I'm sure it would then be the 10 second car you say it is. :thumbsup:


----------



## GPEGTR (Mar 4, 2008)

you need sequential for shopping RIPS if you want to bag a bargain

F.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I think you should pull out the sequential and put a standard H pattern box back in it Mick seeing as its a true street car and then see how you go. I'm sure it would then be the 10 second car you say it is. :thumbsup:


**** that you mean stick the air shifter in and do an 8.

I use the H pattern on the road anyway in the new white. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 


Mick


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I think you should pull out the sequential and put a standard H pattern box back in it Mick seeing as its a true street car and then see how you go. I'm sure it would then be the 10 second car you say it is. :thumbsup:



I think you should pull out your 240z engine and fit it in a gtr and let everyone see if it can still run a 9 sec pass


----------



## GPEGTR (Mar 4, 2008)

do you think the jun car would do 8 seconds with an airgearbox then m6?


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GPEGTR said:


> do you think the jun car would do 8 seconds with an airgearbox then m6?


Yes


----------



## GPEGTR (Mar 4, 2008)

then you should try it and stop the non belivers i reckon.
edit to say shut up not stop lol


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GPEGTR said:


> then you should try it and stop the non belivers i reckon.
> edit to say shut up not stop lol


I would never do that mate, It would be cheating. I will leave all of the fast stuff to the White


Mick


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Tommy F said:


> I think you should pull out your 240z engine and fit it in a gtr and let everyone see if it can still run a 9 sec pass


Nice reply!!! :smokin: The 240z is 1300kg so not alot different in weight to quite a few drag GTR's and definatly heavier than some and the 60ft times on the 9.0 runs were nothing special either.

I'm sure my 9.0 engine in a GTR would still run mid 9s pretty easy, then I suppose we could wind it up from 1.7 bar and add the NOS and see how it goes??? :squintdan 


Good luck to everyone I say and I sure love these wind ups, keep em comming

Rob


----------



## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Nice reply!!! :smokin: The 240z is 1300kg so not alot different in weight to quite a few drag GTR's and definatly heavier than some and the 60ft times on the 9.0 runs were nothing special either.
> 
> I'm sure my 9.0 engine in a GTR would still run mid 9s pretty easy, then I suppose we could wind it up from 1.7 bar and add the NOS and see how it goes??? :squintdan
> 
> ...


Hey don't you go fitting one of them in my car!! I don't want to be going that fast!!

.


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

So here is some information on the Endless R33

Before history: 1300kg (maybe)

HKS racing power check in Japan @ HKS FUJI Endless R33 965rwhp, HKS Dynos loss data (graph below 0) gave the car 1270hp in 2000/1.

2001 Sugino san ran 2 x 8.9sec runs on Nitto tires at Sendai (no track bite) and one flat 9.00sec pass in the same day, car was retired as he reached his goal of 8sec pass.

Cars best 60ft was 1.57 and best trap speed was 271kmh.

*New specification:*

High compression (recent dyno power check was in 5th gear, but the km showed 265km, showing we either had clutch slip or wheel slip) power run was 1000.5rwhp and over 90.5kg/m rwtorque all @ 2.3 bar...see how quick the car revs, 

New Rays TE37s 17x10 (much lighter than its current wheels)
Acrylic Glass
NOS
5layer intercooler
80mm intercooler piping
Hoosier tires...Difference is night and day compaired to the Nittos
Drag exhaust

So seems both cars are ready, I know Mattias has commitments in Sweden to race at manthorpe this year, so mick you should go and race him there.....you are still the challenger as far as what either car has done in the past.....see you there?


----------



## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

All sounds pretty impressive. 8.9 on Nittos is pretty mental - but on the topic on challengers, you guys should go to Australia in August and race Heat Treatments and Godzilla Motorsports... I think there is a good chance it could be the first event where side by side 7s GTR runs are had


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

EndlessR said:


> 2001 Sugino san ran 2 x 8.9sec runs on Nitto tires at Sendai (no track bite) and one flat 9.00sec pass in the same day, car was retired as he reached his goal of 8sec pass.
> 
> Cars best 60ft was 1.57 and best trap speed was 271kmh.


Rick

I would like you to answer something for me. If this car was that good and runs 8s why did it not run fast times with the new owner and secondly why did it have to go back to Japan to get more power,it was ment to be a proven 8 sec car.

did it have to go back because it did not do what it said on the tin :nervous:


----------



## Lag Monster (Aug 16, 2007)

rick

Sendai is downhill big time and that is the reason that this car run high 8s
and could not back the times in Sweden

what times did it run in central circut as it looks a bit flatter ???


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Tommy F said:


> Rick
> 
> I would like you to answer something for me. If this car was that good and runs 8s why did it not run fast times with the new owner and secondly why did it have to go back to Japan to get more power,it was ment to be a proven 8 sec car.
> 
> did it have to go back because it did not do what it said on the tin :nervous:


Tommy, no problem with answering you question as you seem very keen to catch us out......so here it goes, as you know these cars are race cars, and have a shorter life (mainly reffering to the engine).
Before the car was sold, the engine was overhauled by endless (included in the sale). 
After a few attempts by Mattias, a valve stuck, causing piston damage and this happened 2 weeks before we were due to go to Sweden and race). 

Mattias then sent the head back/pistons etc etc to Endless, and all other work was stopped so we could overhaul the head, inspect damage.

2 weeks later we were in Sweden rebuilding his car, (whole engine and car was rebuilt in 2 days)
Mattias had bought new fuel, and the car was to be remapped again for him.

IIRC We raced on the Saturday, but something was not right with the car, Sugino san said the car was very slow, and the terminal speed showed this...I think it was 229kmh that the car achieved at the end of the trap.
However the car still achieved high 9sec runs, but was well down on power, and Sugino san drove the car very well to make it to the Final....where we lost against an 8sec Pro V8 car.

Sugino san was convinced it was the fuel, (and still partly is) 

But then the car was sent back to Japan, for more tuning, we then opened the engine up, drained the oil, and found water in the oil. (at this point we thought the engine has had it) but the oil/water was flushed out through several oil changes...no sign of where the water was coming from.
Engine was rebuilt, and restarted, seemed the the tools we were provided with in Sweden, were not set to the right torque settings that were asked for....the head was lifting off...causing a complete loss of power.....and causing water to enter oil escape and mix with the oil.

Mattias car is now remapped on fuel that is known by Sugino, and his compression and boost was altered to work with this fuel.

So to cut a longer story short, the engine is running good, made the power figurers Sugino san wanted, and should now run as was suppost too when mattias first bought the car/well even faster....

Its worth pointing out that there are no guarantee when it comes to race engines, be it endless or any other tuners of forms of motor racing, 
A race engine can end its life as quickly as it starts.

And I mean by this, 2 identical new components can look the same, weight the same, but if the internal construction/metal is inferior....you will never know until it decides to let you know.

Racing is 80% Knowledge 20% Luck


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Lag Monster said:


> rick
> 
> Sendai is downhill big time and that is the reason that this car run high 8s
> and could not back the times in Sweden
> ...


Lag Monster, 

Having had the chance to go to Sendai and see it with my own eyes, it is not as down hill as everybody thinks....I took many photos, some look like its a 45degree angle...lol other make it look almost flat. Worth saying as I have said before, they use no track prep at Sendai.....60fts are always 1.5 for GT-Rs

Central is very close to us, already been there this year for the first AMKRead round, before Mattias car ran 9.022 again on a non prepped track...cant remember what the 60ft was sorry.

Rick


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

someone must be able to tell us all what the heights above sea level are at the start and finish line.

I remember DCD posting saying that Sendai was downhill


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Its allowed to be downhill as long as it is no more than 1%.


----------



## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

That's a fall of over 13ft, no wonder you downhillers have an advantage.


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

"Allowed to be" and "actually are downhill" are 2 completely different things.

I don't know if the jap track or any of our tracks are downhill but if they are they'll be within the rules.


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I don't know if the jap track or any of our tracks are downhill but if they are they'll be within the rules.


Well the rules are $hit then:nervous: 

how can we compare the UK 1/4 mile times to what other cars are doing downhill around the world.:chairshot

Just found this thread one strip downunder has a 4m drop from start to finish wtf

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/42643-9-95-sec-r32-gtr-2.html


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Tommy F said:


> Well the rules are $hit then:nervous:
> 
> how can we compare the UK 1/4 mile times to what other cars are doing downhill around the world.:chairshot


Do you KNOW that your tracks are not downhill??

You didn't read my post correctly, I said all tracks, anywhere in the world are allowed to have up to 1% variation, I did not say any of the tracks in NZ are downhill, in fact if you watch my videos you'll see Meremere has just as much uphill as downhill in the 400 meters, its like a roller coaster.

As with anything to do with drags, as long as its within the rules, anyone with half a brain would be right on the limit of the rules and I know for damn sure if I was ever in a position to build a drag strip, the finish line would be 3.99 meters lower than the start line, simple really.

Rob


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Do you KNOW that your tracks are not downhill??
> 
> I know for damn sure if I was ever in a position to build a drag strip, the finish line would be 3.99 meters lower than the start line, simple really.
> 
> Rob



Ohh my good God, your a bloody cheat. Next you will be using a chemical compound with the chemical formula N2O. 










Smokey :smokin:


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Smokey 1 said:


> Ohh my good God, your a bloody cheat. Next you will be using a chemical compound with the chemical formula N2O.
> 
> Smokey :smokin:


Ask any decent drag racer if he doesn't take advantage of any rule.
If its perfectly legal to use NOS in the class I race in, and I'm prepared to carry the extra weight I have to if I do use it, then its not cheating.

Just in case your wondering.......I'm WAY over minimum weight for a 6cyl turbo NOS car and I'm still not using any during the run.

If I was down to minimum weight, used the NOS I have and got a decent 60ft it would make what I have done so far look slow I assure you :chuckle: 

Rob


----------



## NISMO-GTR (Jan 28, 2006)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Ask any decent drag racer if he doesn't take advantage of any rule.


or any other rule for almost anything else aswell!! everyone takes advantage whenever possible, its our nature!


----------



## Rick C (May 24, 2005)

Tommy F said:


> Well the rules are $hit then:nervous:
> 
> how can we compare the UK 1/4 mile times to what other cars are doing downhill around the world.
> 
> Just found this thread one strip downunder has a 4m drop from start to finish wtf


That's why drag racing shouldn't be done against the clock, it should be done against the guy in the other lane. First to finish and sod the times.

Why do you think there are 200 teams bringing their rigs from Scandinavia, Germany and France to Santa Pod this weekend? It ain't to race the clock, they could do that without having to find their passports.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

If all tracks are built to within the guidelines (ie. the 1% rule, FYI, it also turns out that Meremere is at the same elevation start and finish line) then comparing times with other tracks can be a fair indication IMO.

Obviously side by side on the same day is best but not always practicle.

Any record set on a legal track is recognised by other tracks, thats just the way it works.

Try telling a top fuel guy his 4.4 run at Pamona doesn't count because the track may be slighly different to another track somewhere else in the US or the world, he'd say "what a load of shyte".

Rob


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

Sorry Rob but i would tell him his 4.4 run only stands at Pamona until he does it somewhere else.....simple as that really. If the rules allow 4% from start to finish then yes, you are absolutely correct, take every advantage you can and build one to 3.99% however don`t get upset when people discredit your times on that particular track as" yeah , but its downhill". Until everyone runs on a level playing field (excuse the pun) you will always have this argument.
jas


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

Rob

Time will soon tell when Jeffs R34 gets back to the UK.
I think that his full weight R34 will run 1 to 1.5 seconds slower than what you run in it. yes it will take him a few runs to get up to it but if the times dont drop much then we will know its down to the tracks.


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## Rick C (May 24, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> If all tracks are built to within the guidelines (ie. the 1% rule, FYI, it also turns out that Meremere is at the same elevation start and finish line) then comparing times with other tracks can be a fair indication IMO.
> 
> Obviously side by side on the same day is best but not always practicle.
> 
> ...


Rob, I essentially agree with you, that a certified track is a certified track, and anyone running on one should (and does) have their times recognised.

But as you know, there are different surfaces (Pomona is abrasive concrete, Santa Pod is tarmac and rubber) and different air temperature and humidity on different days. You have a distinct advantage if you can get cold dense air into a turbo powered car, right? So to compare two cars best, you want to run them next to each other on the same track. 

Apart from anything else, it's more interesting coz you can read more into it, and it adds another element- reaction times, consistency, startline psychology....

Of course it's cool to see a car run whatever time in isolation, but it means so much more to win a race.

EDIT: Most Top Fuel drivers would laugh at 4% anyway... with 8,000bhp on tap, it would be the least of your worries.


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

Looking through the posts so far it seems to me that I am paying for a car that will only run 9.7 if it is in New Zealand?? Am I right?? 

And as far as Tommy F is concerned, his experience says my car will only run a 10.7 at best and maybe up to 11.2 (i.e. 1 to 1.5 seconds slower than in NZ)

I have to say it is very unsettling to read this especially when written by people who know what they are talking about.

I just hope I have not wasted my money.

So what times do you really think I am going to be able to run with this car?? And as Tommy says it will take me a few runs to even build up to an 11 second run so don't expect too much will you.

Jeff


.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Ludders said:


> So what times do you really think I am going to be able to run with this car?? And as Tommy says it will take me a few runs to even build up to an 11 second run so don't expect too much will you.


Jeff, why do you even care what other people think?
RIPS have built YOU a great looking spec which delivered in NZ, as long as you are happy with it mate that's all that counts. I personally think you'll struggle to get near Rob's time (maybe within .5 sec) for a number of reasons but it'll still be one hell of a fast car which you'll continue to improve and develop to suit YOU.
Banter is great but don't get caught up in a p155ing comp.


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

matt j said:


> Jeff, why do you even care what other people think?
> RIPS have built YOU a great looking spec which delivered in NZ, as long as you are happy with it mate that's all that counts. I personally think you'll struggle to get near Rob's time (maybe within .5 sec) for a number of reasons but it'll still be one hell of a fast car which you'll continue to improve and develop to suit YOU.
> Banter is great but don't get caught up in a p155ing comp.


Thanks Matt, just interested in people's opinions. Not up for a typing contest with anyone.

But at least you think I might get a 10.2 in time eh?

Cheers.......Jeff

.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Ludders said:


> Thanks Matt, just interested in people's opinions. Not up for a typing contest with anyone.
> 
> But at least you think I might get a 10.2 in time eh?
> 
> ...


I'm sure you can get that time and even better Jeff given enough practice and support.


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

I agree with Matt wholeheartedly. Its all speculation until you run it yourself and record a time. Whos to say it might not be quicker? You can`t just add or take off a second here or there on pure speculation. Whatever the car has run already is its best time to date on that particular track and thats all that counts really.
As said before, its going to be one hell of a car and thats that.


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## High Octane (Jul 18, 2005)

*:lamer:*

:lamer: :lamer: :bawling:


Tommy F said:


> Rob
> 
> Time will soon tell when Jeffs R34 gets back to the UK.
> I think that his full weight R34 will run 1 to 1.5 seconds slower than what you run in it. yes it will take him a few runs to get up to it but if the times dont drop much then we will know its down to the tracks.


1.5 sec... ehh your exaggerating just a tad there.
he's done 9.7sec, so your saying he'll do early 11sec quater mile times, your off your dial mate


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## ashfrancis (Oct 7, 2006)

Ludders think, you may be supprised what you will do with that car once you are used to it and get a bit of track time with it.

the time rob ran was quick but he was not going to mad with it as it was its first outing, sure you will in time achieve the same time or maybe even quicker. 

specially at the pod with a good tail wind on a cool day wearing nothing but a thong for weight saving!

just enjoy it and go from there you have a stunnnig car on its way home :clap:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Ludders said:


> And as far as Tommy F is concerned, his experience says my car will only run a 10.7 at best and maybe up to 11.2 (i.e. 1 to 1.5 seconds slower than in NZ)


Who is Tommy F to make such a statement?


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Ludders*

If you have trouble getting used to it, come see uncle Andy.... 

TommyF 's opinion on the subject is worth 1yen, sorry, 1 lira :chuckle: 

The frustration of watching Begley sniff around the bumhole of a 10 with the JUN car for past millenium is enough to make anyone think a 9 is hard :chuckle: Its not.

Cheers & good luck, cant wait to see it in the flesh.

Andy


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Andy Barnes said:


> If you have trouble getting used to it, come see uncle Andy....
> 
> TommyF 's opinion on the subject is worth 1yen, sorry, 1 lira :chuckle:
> 
> ...


Lol :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Good shit.


Mick


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

This is all very interesting and its great that everyone has an opinion and voices it here, great stuff.

Let me just clarify a couple of things though:

At the time I took Jeffs car to the track, I had never driven the car at all with the new motor, not even gently down the road, I drove it about 20 meters from where we unloaded the car from the trailer to the start line, thats it.
Obviously I was unsure what the car might do or how it would perform so I was quite nervous and wanted to take it pretty easy, the car has a H pattern gearbox not a sequential so that was another thing on my mind.
We were not running our normal tyre pressures and I did a very short burnout and rolled to the start.
I did a run and it caught me by surprise and quite simply I made a complete mess of it, missing gear change points and it was pulling hard to the centerline etc so backed off at the 1000ft mark running a 9.7 @ 137mph.

The car has done 1 run in its life with the new motor, just 1, not 50 or more like several guys have before they get a 9.

Meremere track is not downhill, we have checked, it is the same elevation at the start line as the finish line but it is quite undulating during the 400 meters then slightly uphill after the finish line.

As another example of us not having an advantage, Our 60ft times in the 240z running 8.7 are actually alot slower than alot of the UK GTR boys running similar times, we weigh considerably more and our mph is almost identicle though. (so we have slower 60ft, heavier car, similar times, almost identicle mph, you don't have to be very smart to work out whats going on) 

Jeffs car as it raced weighed 1750kg.

We don't have majic air or any other imaginary advantage, out air and track temps this time of year are probably very similar to yours during your racing season.

Jeffs car will run what it runs when he's driving it on the tracks he goes to but you'd have to be pretty silly to think a car that weighs 1750kg, runs 9.7 on its first and only pass, that was a complete mess and aborted early, is a sign of a car thats going to run mid to high 10s or even low 11s (as Tommy F says) in the UK on a clean pass on tracks that are obviously very similar and up to scratch.

Thoughts and comments please.

Rob


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Jeff mate.

What ever times you do it will not matter. At least you're having a go and enjoying yourself.:bowdown1: :bowdown1: 

I think people should lay off Jeff and let him do his thing.

Good luck mate. 



Mick


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## mandhdrijfhout (Mar 13, 2006)

TommyF I'm sure if you are being to serious or not .

Meremere and willowbank are used by overseas based cars and they have never made comment that the tracks are downhill as rob said they are allowed to have 1% incline/descent or to what ever Rob said . These are international sanctionrd tracks .

Jeff well done good to see some N.Z engineering over in England and i'm sure you will run better times than what Rob has done when you get the chasis dialed in and get some seat time . In the mean time let the haters do all the trash talk they want. At the end of the day you are actually racing and having a go at something you enjoydoing doing weather it be a 12 sec pass or a low 9.

I don't paticipate in motorsport at all apart from being a spectator.But can appreciate the time and money that goes into building a drag GTR having wathced and followed the progress of Reece Mc Gregor and Glen Suckling over the years they have spent $100,000's to get where they are and if they listened to the haters or the people saying youve got a the wrong sticker or bad track or a purple helmet the import scene would't be where we are today.

Cheers & good luck for when your car arrives 

Marten


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

AAaaaand breathe!!lol ;-)


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

mandhdrijfhout said:


> Jeff well done good to see some N.Z engineering over in England and i'm sure you will run better times than what Rob has done when you get the chasis dialed in and get some seat time .
> 
> 
> Marten



lol:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: 



Mick


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## Cardiff R33 (Jan 16, 2004)

Jeff, as others have said forget what some are saing and just go and enjy it. I am 100% certain you will run about a 10/11 on first few runs but after that i think you will quite easily bat Robs times. As he has said it was its first even run and sure can be adjusted in the suspension side of things to further improve robs times!

Rob, sure you have not got magic air?? LMFAO

Jeff, you car will run nines i am sure it will just take some practice on your behalf, the car, i am sure, will look after itself


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Can't wait to see what Ludders car runs in the UK after some seat time


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

I reckon if Jeff had a sequential, it would deffo run 9s.


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Errr, It has already run 9s - I can't for the life of me comprehend how you guys can question if a car that has proven to be able to run 9s would run or not. Its not a case of if its going to be able to do a 9 - its how far into the 9s it will run in my opinion.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Lith said:


> Errr, It has already run 9s - I can't for the life of me comprehend how you guys can question if a car that has proven to be able to run 9s would run or not. Its not a case of if its going to be able to do a 9 - its how far into the 9s it will run in my opinion.


Then you need to have a read through some of the history and know that just about, if not all the cars which have been imported as being proven '9' second cars etc have never repeated the times in the UK without a great deal of additional work.
That's why yet again people are sceptical and rightly so, perhaps Jeff's car will repeat the 9 straight out the box, perhaps not... (but good luck Jeff  )
There's only one way to find out :thumbsup:


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

matt j said:


> Then you need to have a read through some of the history and know that just about, if not all the cars which have been imported as being proven '9' second cars etc have never repeated the times in the UK without a great deal of additional work.
> 
> There's only one way to find out :thumbsup:


I am definitely not saying it will run a 9 out of the box, partly because I half expect Jeff to shit himself once he gets the thing moving - depending on the size of his trousers  I HAVE however read the thread, and thats whats bewildered me. If there is any reason you guys struggle to do 9s in proven 9s cars, its not the car which is the problem. 

More often than not NZ built cars do their personal bests off shore, so if it goes slower there (providing the driver hasn't had a melt down) then that would be a first.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Lith said:


> More often than not NZ built cars do their personal bests off shore, so if it goes slower there (providing the driver hasn't had a melt down) then that would be a first.


So you only blame the UK drivers if the cars don't repeat in the UK?

This isn't the first NZ engine this car has had so it wouldn't be a first :nervous: as stated before I can't actually think or know of a NZ car/engine running anywhere near the claimed power or performance as when it left NZ shores - I'm genuinely interested to hear if you can prove otherwise?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

matt j said:


> So you only blame the UK drivers if the cars don't repeat in the UK?
> 
> This isn't the first NZ engine this car has had so it wouldn't be a first :nervous: as stated before I can't actually think or know of a NZ car/engine running anywhere near the claimed power or performance as when it left NZ shores - I'm genuinely interested to hear if you can prove otherwise?


Jeffs first engine was ordered as a 650hp engine and according to tweenie rob he measured 630hp at quite low boost (1.3 bar iirc)
Jeff had a Nitrous kit installed in the UK and went to the drags and on normal street tyres did an 11.2 @ 122mph with the nos not working but possibly the timing pulled back as if it was working.
I'm sure there's plenty of guys who think they have 650hp in a heavy R33 or R34 that have not done an 11.2???
122mph in 3600lbs needs 510whp on a PERFECT pass so it must be right you'd agree?

When the car got here for the upgrades to the next level we dyno'd it as it arrived and without nitrous we also measured aprox 630hp and were able to add aprox 40hp to the figure it had on arrival and we measured 670hp so our measuring systems must be comparable?

Either way you look at it the first engine DID make the power it was claimed to be able to make and with the nitrous we added a further 125hp to it.

On the same dyno, we have also measured Jeffs new engine.

One other thing you may or may not know is Jeff asked for mid to low 10s and personally I think a 9.7 on its first ever fooked up run is not too bad at all considering his request??.  Surely its a sign we are on target?

It'll run what it runs and as long as it does mid to low 10s I have given Jeff what he asked for. 

Rob


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

matt j said:


> This isn't the first NZ engine this car has had so it wouldn't be a first :nervous:


If it had done a 10 in NZ before it was sent over to the UK with the old setup, then what you said there would make sense.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Just banter Rob 



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> When the car got here for the upgrades to the next level we dyno'd it as it arrived and without nitrous we also measured aprox 630hp and were able to add aprox 40hp to the figure it had on arrival and we measured 670hp so our measuring systems must be comparable?


See something doesn't quite add up here Rob because - In another thread you claim 29% transmission losses which would be 657.9bhp (on 510ATW) yet I know what my 650bhp car losses were (on the same dyno and 3 others in the UK) and it was about 70bhp. ie 580ATW - which would be what, 700+ on your dyno...
So how come you can then reproduce the power exactly and then improve on it? Did your dyno know the car had come back from the UK and decide to use a different calculation now? 
How did you add the 40hp Rob? (Which if taking 29% losses in to consideration would actually be loosing power)
Remind me what turbo set-up it was running would you?

All said with tongue in cheek Rob as you know but it is interesting to see where you gained the power from...

Lith, like I said, can you show me a car that has either the same claimed power reproduced on a UK dyno or posted a time similar to those run in NZ?

If you claim something, you have to back it up. If you can't back it up...

All joking aside, I can't wait to see all the cars run at some point this year and am gutted that I'll be working for TOTB


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

matt j said:


> Lith, like I said, can you show me a car that has either the same claimed power reproduced on a UK dyno or posted a time similar to those run in NZ?
> 
> If you claim something, you have to back it up. If you can't back it up...


I never claimed anything to do with dyno runs, comparing dynos is always going to end up in tears as there are so many things to be considered. There is an old saying, most applicable these days to e-racing with dyno results - when when the flag drops the bullshit stops. The flag has dropped, there are time slips. There is no speculation based on dyno results needed to estimate what it should be capable of.

Do you have any examples of cars which have run in the UK and NZ, and better yet - ones which have gone slower in the UK? 

And how about that black and green R33 GTR from Japan, that ran 7.67 at Sendai high land (high altitude, must rob power?) then went to Australia and ran 7.9. Well there is a white R32 GTR that ran 7.8 in NZ and then went to the same track in Australia and ran 7.57.... but of course our tracks are fast, right?


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## mandhdrijfhout (Mar 13, 2006)

Lith said:


> I never claimed anything to do with dyno runs, comparing dynos is always going to end up in tears as there are so many things to be considered. There is an old saying, most applicable these days to e-racing with dyno results - when when the flag drops the bullshit stops. The flag has dropped, there are time slips. There is no speculation based on dyno results needed to estimate what it should be capable of.
> 
> Do you have any examples of cars which have run in the UK and NZ, and better yet - ones which have gone slower in the UK?
> 
> And how about that black and green R33 GTR from Japan, that ran 7.67 at Sendai high land (high altitude, must rob power?) then went to Australia and ran 7.9. Well there is a white R32 GTR that ran 7.8 in NZ and then went to the same track in Australia and ran 7.57.... but of course our tracks are fast, right?



No Lith they are downhill :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Lith said:


> Do you have any examples of cars which have run in the UK and NZ, and better yet - ones which have gone slower in the UK?


No mate, none at all, that was the question I originally ask you... :thumbsup: 

By the same token, why was the engine which had more power drawn from it when it returned to NZ not tested to see it better the UK 11.2 surely that'd be the first test? 
Seems like a logical test given your 'old saying'!


Anyway, Japan and NZ are both downhill like mandhdrijfhout says so you'd expect the times to be similar


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Haha - I am in quite an e-Racing mood actually. HKS went .23s slower by going to Australia, yet Heat Treatments went .23s faster by going to Australia - and you are saying you'd expect NZ and Japan to be similar. Despite our track being downhill, if I were to use those time differences one would expect Heat Treatments to go 7.34 in Japan.

I decided to check videos of your tracks too, with the best comparable car - which is the Jun Super Lemon. The result? 

YouTube - JUN Super Lemon RII Nissan Skyline GTR R33 #9 - looks fairly flat, quite cruisey really

Now for the UK e-Racing 11s car: YouTube - Robbie Ward R34 Blue GTR Meremere. Going by the angle of the headlights compared to the tail lights, for most of that run I conclude that our track is going uphill  And clearly the car has no way near the ability of the Lemon to accelerate under its own steam, look how much it labours to even get moving. I guess it must be something to do with us being on the Southern Hemisphere that complicates things.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

matt j said:


> Just banter Rob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your not making sense I'm afraid.
You didn't dyno YOUR car on the dyno WE use did you?, if not then your comments mean nothing.
Tweenie Rob told us he measured 630hp with Ludders engine when he dyno'd it.
When we got the car here, the first thing we did was dyno it as it was and using our usual formular it came back at about the same 630hp.:clap: 
We then made a few changes to cam timing and mapping and picked up a bit more power, we then got the NOS working and gained some more, whats the problem?

I did take the car to the drags straight away to test it and to get a 10 for Jeff before we started and on the first and only run the 60ft and 330ft were on for a mid to low 10 in fact.
Unbeknown to me, a heater hose had been placed on the exhaust manifold during its installation in the UK, it had burnt through and the water temp exceeded our ecu limiter and the motor shut down after 2nd gear and popping and missing, I rolled through for an 11, using power in 1st and second gear only, so it can't have been to bad aye Try using 1st and 2nd only then rolling the rest of the way in yours and tell me how you get on:thumbsup: 

Keep in mind, above, I didn't say I measured 510whp, I said based on power speed calulators you need about 510whp to do an 11.2 in Jeffs car.
I do not know what whp figure Tweenie measured, he just said it had 630bhp, maybe on his dyno he did measure about 570whp? I don't know. 
Once again, either way you work it out, Ludders car needed about 630-650bhp to do the 11.2 he did so where's the problem, the motor made the power I said it would?

Quite simple really I would have thought as you can't get that weight of car down the strip in 11.2 seconds at 122mph without X amount of power.

OK then, you say your car was 650hp right? what does it weigh and whats your best 1/4 mile time in it, and be honest and make sure you answer this one, don't avoid it, is it an 11.2 or better??

Rob


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Your not making sense I'm afraid.
> 
> You didn't dyno YOUR car on the dyno WE use did you?, if not then your comments mean nothing.


Of course I didn't use the dyno YOU use Rob, I used the dyno the car used when in the UK - 'Apples to Apples' as you like to say.
The train of thought is there are 2 different calculations for losses being used, both of which arrive at the same engine power, yet the calculations provide vastly different wheel power. When you calculate the 1/4 by WHP like you did previously, you can see why I'm asking the question.
560ATW against 500ATW (same car).



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Tweenie Rob told us he measured 630hp with Ludders engine when he dyno'd it.
> When we got the car here, the first thing we did was dyno it as it was and using our usual formular it came back at about the same 630hp.:clap:


So what you're saying is; In the UK the car had say 630bhp (560ish? ATW) but in NZ it had 630BHP but you only measured around 500ATW?
That's quite a difference, what does your calculator say for times based on that difference if you don't mind working it out?

Genuinely, what does it say for 560 against 500 ATW?
I know that you say the engine figures were the same but in reality they don't mean anything compared to ATW, I'm just trying to figure out what the difference means, if anything at all. But, obviously 1 should be able to run faster than the other. It doesn't add up.



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> We then made a few changes to cam timing and mapping and picked up a bit more power, we then got the NOS working and gained some more, whats the problem?


Can't argue with that, well done Rob 670bhp! :clap: 
You never answered the question regarding what turbo application was used and it's rating?



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I did take the car to the drags straight away to test it and to get a 10 for Jeff before we started and on the first and only run the 60ft and 330ft were on for a mid to low 10 in fact.


A mid to low 10 from an 11 second car (by your calculation) is an awesome achievement. So how do you explain this?
Or, was that with the Nitrous as you say you fixed it before the run? (IF not it certainly adds to the arguement about differences in UK/NZ times)



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Try using 1st and 2nd only then rolling the rest of the way in yours and tell me how you get on:thumbsup:
> 
> Keep in mind, above, I didn't say I measured 510whp, I said based on power speed calulators you need about 510whp to do an 11.2 in Jeffs car.
> I do not know what whp figure Tweenie measured, he just said it had 630bhp, maybe on his dyno he did measure about 570whp? I don't know.
> ...


Power in 1st and 2nd and then roll, as in downhill?  JK

What figure is 'X' amount of power? 
You agree it takes a certain amount of power to run 11.2 but I'm interested to know who is measuring losses correctly as you're clearly saying someone is wrong given reference to the same vehicle.
So X would be different for us and you yet it's a proven guideline calculation is it not? :thumbsup: 



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> OK then, you say your car was 650hp right? what does it weigh and whats your best 1/4 mile time in it, and be honest and make sure you answer this one, don't avoid it, is it an 11.2 or better??
> 
> Rob


F*ck knows Rob, I've only had use of it for 3 months out of 39 (and counting) and it wasn't reliable enough to go near the drag strip unfortunately, wouldn't be a fair contest though as my spec wasn't the same - Apples again 

I've looked at the corner weighs from the 1st setting and my car was about 435-440Kg per corner back then.

Can't compare Apples anymore as I'm having a new engine built to a higher spec, maybe not as high as Jeff's tho


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Lith said:


> I decided to check videos of your tracks too, with the best comparable car - which is the Jun Super Lemon. The result?
> 
> YouTube - JUN Super Lemon RII Nissan Skyline GTR R33 #9 - looks fairly flat, quite cruisey really



That was the top speed run

here is the in car footage


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Ahh I see haha. The drag runs looked similar though.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

matt j said:


> Of course I didn't use the dyno YOU use Rob, I used the dyno the car used when in the UK - 'Apples to Apples' as you like to say.
> The train of thought is there are 2 different calculations for losses being used, both of which arrive at the same engine power, yet the calculations provide vastly different wheel power. When you calculate the 1/4 by WHP like you did previously, you can see why I'm asking the question.
> 560ATW against 500ATW (same car).


The point is every dyno reads differently ATW but once you get used to the dyno you use and you dyno alot of stock cars to compare whp figures with stock engine outputs its pretty easy to get a very good indication.
Tweenie's dyno obviously gets a different whp figure to the dyno we use, but using his conversion method he arrived at aprox 630 just as we did.
You could look at it the other way, how does Tweenie or other UK tuners arrive at the their conversion from whp to bhp? and who's to say it is correct?
It really doesn't matter anyway, time/mph V weight is still the safest indication and as said before our 240z 162 mph V weight works out at almost exactly the 900whp we have measured on the dyno we use.




matt j said:


> So what you're saying is; In the UK the car had say 630bhp (560ish? ATW) but in NZ it had 630BHP but you only measured around 500ATW?
> That's quite a difference, what does your calculator say for times based on that difference if you don't mind working it out?


I didn't say I measured around 500whp, I said it needed around 510whp to run 122mph on a PERFECT pass. I havn't looked back on the dyno sheets to see what whp figure we got, when I get a chance I will do though.



matt j said:


> Genuinely, what does it say for 560 against 500 ATW?
> I know that you say the engine figures were the same but in reality they don't mean anything compared to ATW, I'm just trying to figure out what the difference means, if anything at all. But, obviously 1 should be able to run faster than the other. It doesn't add up.


If the 2 dyno's in question measure in a different way (brand x V brand y, old V new, hub V roller, lots of possible variables) and arrive at different whp figures the engine still has the same bhp right?, thats what you don't seem to be getting yet.
In the weight of Jeffs car the extra 60whp would add about 4mph and drop about 3 10ths, again, on a perfect run.



matt j said:


> Can't argue with that, well done Rob 670bhp! :clap:
> You never answered the question regarding what turbo application was used and it's rating?


It had twin GT28s which are book rated to 320hp ea. 



matt j said:


> A mid to low 10 from an 11 second car (by your calculation) is an awesome achievement. So how do you explain this?
> Or, was that with the Nitrous as you say you fixed it before the run? (IF not it certainly adds to the arguement about differences in UK/NZ times)


We gained a little power from mapping and cam timing changes, we got the NOS working and like I said that added about another 125hp, we were on good tyres and it left hard at launch.





matt j said:


> What figure is 'X' amount of power?
> You agree it takes a certain amount of power to run 11.2 but I'm interested to know who is measuring losses correctly as you're clearly saying someone is wrong given reference to the same vehicle.
> So X would be different for us and you yet it's a proven guideline calculation is it not? :thumbsup:


I have a power/speed calculator which we use as a guideline, dyno's are a guideline to unless your comparing 2 cars on the same day on the same dyno then you could acuratly compare the 2 cars on that day.
Absolute figures are always going to be up in the air, thats what a drag strip is for.
I'm sure you'll agree, there are plenty of guys who's time V mph is not even close to what it should be with the power they 'claim', the funny thing is, our times and mph on a strip usually back up our power claims extreemly closely, seriously, why is that do you think?





matt j said:


> F*ck knows Rob, I've only had use of it for 3 months out of 39 (and counting) and it wasn't reliable enough to go near the drag strip unfortunately, wouldn't be a fair contest though as my spec wasn't the same - Apples again


You said it had 650bhp and it weighs almost exactly the same as Jeffs, so thats pretty close in my book, obviously with your new higher spec you should be running 10s with ease then?

Jeffs car needed an average of 800whp to do the 9.7 its already done.
During that 9.7 seconds there was aprox 3 second where it was either on the rev limiter or off throttled (obviously still rolling though), yet we must have still "averaged" 800whp to get the 9.7, or another way to look at it is, if it was a clean 9.7 the car needed 800whp to do that 9.7, what does that indicate to you about its potential?

Rob


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Lith said:


> Ahh I see haha. The drag runs looked similar though.


Good I am glad for you, when you post up a video of your car running a nine second pass or reaching 202 mph over a standing mile, on a airfield (not a prepped drag strip) flat, down or uphill what ever. We will be the first to congratulate you knowing first hand how hard it is to achieve. 

On the 8th day God made the GTR :thumbsup: 








Smokey


----------



## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Smokey 1 said:


> Good I am glad for you, when you post up a video of your car running a nine second pass or reaching 202 mph over a standing mile, on a airfield (not a prepped drag strip) flat, down or uphill what ever. We will be the first to congratulate you knowing first hand how hard it is to achieve.


Cheers, that'd be nice  

In the mean time, regardless of the fact of whether or not I don't have a car with a 9s time slip - neither do you, and neither do most of the people in this forum, but so long as there are videos and time slips for Ludders R34 GTR and the Lemon doing 9s I am inclined to say both are proven 9s cars.


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> When the car got here for the upgrades to the next level we dyno'd it as it arrived and without nitrous we also measured aprox 630hp and were able to add aprox 40hp to the figure it had on arrival /QUOTE]
> 
> I've spoken to Tweenie and just to clarify something so there is no missunderstanding.
> 
> ...


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> R.I.P.S NZ said:
> 
> 
> > When the car got here for the upgrades to the next level we dyno'd it as it arrived and without nitrous we also measured aprox 630hp and were able to add aprox 40hp to the figure it had on arrival /QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Will be good to see how they go. I wish there were more nasty street GTRs here in NZ doing the drag series


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> There's just to many variables to be able to do any real comparison between a car dyno'd in NZ and a car dyno'd in the UK so it really is pointless going over it time and time again.
> 
> Rob


I suppose the same can be said about the times on the strip as well then Rob.


Mick


----------



## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Guess it depends on whether 1320ft is measured differently in the UK to how it is in NZ


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

m6beg said:


> I suppose the same can be said about the times on the strip as well then Rob.Mick


Yeah I spose your right Mick.

We all know you should absolutly kick Jeffs ass in your highly developed lemon mate, after all you've had years of development and at least 100 times more practice than Jeff, what we don't know is by how much you'll win.

Good luck to you both.


----------



## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Rob,

Somewhere along the line it got a little confusing for me...

The point I was trying to make and trying to understand is this;

A calculation can be performed to 'estimate' quite closely the capability (time 0n 1/4) for a given car at a known weight with and known power.

Take 2 examples;
1. The UK01 car you build which you said had 1000bhp
2. The Jun Lemon which PT built and is dyno'd in the UK at 1000bhp

As far as I am aware they have both driven quite different 1/4 times yet both weigh a similar amount and both have a similar power. In the UK the lemon was 930+ATW and NZ you dyno'd Lee's car at 700+ATW yet claimed 29% Tx losses. So something doesn't add up - obviously on paper at 1000 bhp each you'd expect it to be close but the difference with the given ATW figures makes sense, time wise.

Then we were talking about Jeff's 1st RB30 and all of a sudden your figures are now comparable to Tweenies figures (Although you managed to break the laws of physics and extract more power than the turbos could produce  ) so there is disparity in your results??? How can you allow 29% losses in one result and then not in another, or does that mean that UK01 actually had over 900ATW in which case the 1/4 you ran should have been faster should it not?

Don't you find it a little strange too? (Confused  )


----------



## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

i didn't think the Lemon had been out and set a time since being rebuilt ?


----------



## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Andy W said:


> i didn't think the Lemon had been out and set a time since being rebuilt ?


It ran at TOTb last year and then the Pod on the way home and backed up the 9 as far as I remember.


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

matt j said:


> Rob,
> 
> Somewhere along the line it got a little confusing for me...
> 
> ...



UK001 was raced at 1 meet and I did about 5 runs iirc.
It was a wet day (you can see rain on the bonnet of the car after the run) I had no 2wd so couldn't do any burnout to warm the tyres and I had to roll straight through the water trap to the start line, a distinct disadvantage I'm sure you'd agree.
I also had a stock gearbox to contend with, no flat shifting and no launch control, it is also common knowledge that a stock box is about 1/2 a second slower than a sequential that Lemon has.

If you take 1/2 a second off the 10.7 and then give even a small allowance for no burnout, cold tyres and a wet day you can see that the times are not to dissimilar at all, wouldn't you agree?
Who's to say with some more runs I couldn't have got a 10.5 or maybe even slightly better with the stock box?

How many runs did Mick do in the lemon to get a 9? I'd bet a hell of alot more than the 5 I had in UK001 or the 1 run I had in Ludders 34.

It is also very possible to get slightly more power than a turbo is usually book rated at, after all, in Ludders example we are talking about 15hp per turbo at the most so lets not blow it out of proportion please.

I don't know what Tweenie's whp figures for Ludders first engine were but we both arrived at almost exactly the same bhp figure so what the problem?

If Tweenie measured 930+whp with the Lemon I'm sure even you would have to conceed it must have more than 1000bhp.
Also, even if there is 930whp in the Lemon, that should give a 1/4 time much quicker than 9.9 so whats your explaination for that?

Anyway, lets give it a rest, you raise some good points for discussion, I have answered them all honestly and maybe in your eyes something doesn't quite add up but I assure you in NZ we also think something doesn't add up when alot of UK cars run slow times for the power claimed V weight, doesn't THAT seem strange to you?

When Sparks 34 gets back he may want to dyno it, When Ludders car gets back I'm sure he'll run times that will back up the whp we have measured.

Rob


----------



## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Anyway, lets give it a rest, you raise some good points for discussion, I have answered them all honestly and maybe in your eyes something doesn't quite add up but I assure you in NZ we also think something doesn't add up when alot of UK cars run slow times for the power claimed V weight, doesn't THAT seem strange to you?
> 
> Rob


Definitely - I completely agree Rob, there are many difference between times/power/weight/tracks etc hence asking questions to the person who is in the best position to answer them as per below.



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Thoughts and comments please.
> 
> Rob


No more questions as requested :thumbsup:


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Yeah I spose your right Mick.
> 
> We all know you should absolutly kick Jeffs ass in your highly developed lemon mate, after all you've had years of development and at least 100 times more practice than Jeff, what we don't know is by how much you'll win.
> 
> Good luck to you both.



Rob.

Jeff is a good friend of mine. Let's leave it like that thanks:thumbsup: :thumbsup: 


Mick


----------



## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

matt j said:


> It ran at TOTb last year and then the Pod on the way home and backed up the 9 as far as I remember.


yeah i saw the 9 at the pod, but that wasn't on its new engine.
understandably so Mick has been busy with his new venture though i guess


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Andy W said:


> yeah i saw the 9 at the pod, but that wasn't on its new engine.
> understandably so Mick has been busy with his new venture though i guess


Been busy with work not cars dude.

Lemon will be out in the next few weeks if i get time. My next outing is in the White though at the Pro Street Drag round 3. June 14th/15th.

Should be good fun again.  



Mick


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Were is Matts car???

Been very very quiet. Is everything OK?


Mick


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Were is Matts car???
> 
> Been very very quiet. Is everything OK?
> 
> ...


...


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Ahhh sorry to hear that Matts.

You have my number give me a call mate.


Mick


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

So Rick are you going to tell us ???????

Go on i dare you. And before you say something false just be careful.

I have been speaking to Matts again today.:thumbsup: 

So spit it out.

And for the 118 that voted for the endless car lol you have all lost.

Mick:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

m6beg said:


> So Rick are you going to tell us ???????
> 
> Go on i dare you. And before you say something false just be careful.
> 
> ...


mick, your shit sturring abilities know no bounds, I would even class it as a fetish of yours....(pictures bald man, in gimp suit, sat in front of PC covered in shit)  

And for your information, at this point you probably know more than we do, 
Yes Mattias engine has a problem, are we 100% on what the problem is....no, why, because we are not local...infact very far from Mattias in Sweden. Mattias has no local tuners who can look after his car, and has very little knowledge of tuning....but owns a very very high maintenance GT-R, 

So today we will ask mattias to seek a closer tuner who can give his car the attention it needs.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

EndlessR said:


> mick, your shit sturring abilities know no bounds, I would even class it as a fetish of yours....(pictures bald man, in gimp suit, sat in front of PC covered in shit)
> 
> And for your information, at this point you probably know more than we do,
> Yes Mattias engine has a problem, are we 100% on what the problem is....no, why, because we are not local...infact very far from Mattias in Sweden. Mattias has no local tuners who can look after his car, and has very little knowledge of tuning....but owns a very very high maintenance GT-R,
> ...


Wrong Answer. :sadwavey: :sadwavey: :sadwavey: 

Matts is not a happy man. He paid a lot of money again this time 15k i think he said. And his car is dead again. He said to me he wish he had never bought that fooking car.

And that is the truth.

Matts will elaborate a bit further on here if you want? 

Mick


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Wrong Answer. :sadwavey: :sadwavey: :sadwavey:
> 
> Matts is not a happy man. He paid a lot of money again this time 15k i think he said. And his car is dead again. He said to me he wish he had never bought that fooking car.
> 
> ...


Mick, you and Matts are more than welcome to elaborate as much as you want, we have nothing to hide at all....but start it off as I know you must.:blahblah: 

Here we go again folks 

Rick


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

I thought endless would know how to build engines by now:bawling: 

Rick if you have nothing to hide i would like to know what has went wrong this time


----------



## MrLeone (Sep 13, 2005)

We all have a story to tell about Rick and Endless... Not allways so happy as Rick wants it to be!!


----------



## tanaka (Sep 10, 2007)

Hi Matts

If your reading this i feel sorry for you bud.

First you buy what you think is a quick drag car from Endless that should have come up with the goods but did not.
You then send the car back to Japan only to get more problems and to top it off Endless have had your money and dont want to know you now.

If thats there customer service i hope everyone that was thinking of buying a car thinks twice now.


----------



## tanaka (Sep 10, 2007)

EndlessR said:


> So today we will ask mattias to seek a closer tuner who can give his car the attention it needs.


Rick

I hope that when you tell Matts that you want him to get someone else to sort his car out.
That Endless will be sending Matts back the 15k he has just paid you to get the car sorted.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

EndlessR said:


> Mick, you and Matts are more than welcome to elaborate as much as you want, we have nothing to hide at all....but start it off as I know you must.:blahblah:
> 
> Here we go again folks
> 
> Rick



No never mind the laughing this time.

You have robbed a good man out of his long ambition. To own a fast GTR :chairshot :chairshot :chairshot 

You should be ashamed of yourself.uke: uke: 

You are now on my first ever ignore. :sadwavey: :sadwavey: 

Your a fooking con man.

Good luck Matts if i can help you i will.

Mick


----------



## jesus son ofGod (May 11, 2007)

*IDIOT*

WOULD YOU EVER MIND YOU OWN BUSINESS FOR A CHANGE. .YOUR SO ANNOYING.


Jesus has spoken



m6beg said:


> No never mind the laughing this time.
> 
> You have robbed a good man out of his long ambition. To own a fast GTR :chairshot :chairshot :chairshot
> 
> ...


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

jesus son ofGod said:


> WOULD YOU EVER MIND YOU OWN BUSINESS FOR A CHANGE. .YOUR SO ANNOYING.
> 
> 
> Jesus has spoken


lol    


Mick


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I know absolutly nothing about whats going on but I do think its a bit off Mick, there could be cirsumstances none of us know about, there could be a number of reasons for trouble in a highly tuned GTR.

I think its a bit unfair for you to start slinging such serious words when Matt hasn't been on here and said a word about it.

I'm also pretty damn sure when your car has a problem (and it will, it happens to everyone at this level), even if its a legitimate "shit happens" kind of problem, you'd be absolutly spewing if someone jumped on here and threw Tweenie to the lions.

A wind up in fun and a bit of friendly shyte back and forth is one thing but IMO you have gone to far, at least untill the true story is told by Matt.

Just my 2c.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

What a load of shite.


Mick


----------



## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

ha ha - let he friendly banter continue. 

Mine's a Kasteel.


----------



## playasyougo (Nov 29, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I know absolutly nothing about whats going on but I do think its a bit off Mick, there could be cirsumstances none of us know about, there could be a number of reasons for trouble in a highly tuned GTR.
> 
> I think its a bit unfair for you to start slinging such serious words when Matt hasn't been on here and said a word about it.
> 
> ...


I agree.

I rarely post on this forum but have been viewing for some time now and m6beg you like to start trouble.


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Mick and others who are trying to flame us, continue as you will as we have nothing to hide.

Mick + friends, even mattias doesnt know whats wrong with the car.....so getting all fired up about something you don`t no anything about.....its a little foolish....and your forum antics become tiresome to say the least, I wait for the "stella" retort.


----------



## SR BEAST (Mar 6, 2005)

I have nothin against endlessR ..My only complain is I wish if they were a lil more helpful with me, as I have one of their endless cars .. and they still refuse to help me out when i'm half way on the other side of the planet ..


----------



## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Howsie said:


> ha ha - let he friendly banter continue.
> 
> Mine's a Kasteel.


Unfortunatley once it turns into a tuner slagging match where peoples' businesses are at stake, Its no longer friendly banter in my eyes. 
More like someone else's attempt to get the thread closed.

Mick, just thought i'd quote something from the "F.A.O Grex" thread, i'm finding it entertaining after seeing the rhetoric of your previous posts 



m6beg said:


> Seen as you have been ranting about me and what I have been up to, after reading some of your post regarding me *slagging other tuners* and owners. I think you should wind you neck in. I will always be the first to congratulate any of the GTR owners and *tuners*


Practise what you preach.


----------



## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

Any engine spec on the Jun Super Lemon ?

Nabil


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

260Z said:


> Any engine spec on the Jun Super Lemon ?
> 
> Nabil


Sure do mate.

Jun Super lemon | Mick Begleys Nissan Skyline R33 GTR

Mick


----------



## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

m6beg said:


> Sure do mate.
> 
> Jun Super lemon | Mick Begleys Nissan Skyline R33 GTR
> 
> Mick



TNX man


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

SR BEAST said:


> I have nothin against endlessR ..My only complain is I wish if they were a lil more helpful with me, as I have one of their endless cars .. and they still refuse to help me out when i'm half way on the other side of the planet ..


Your car was not bought directly from us, but was a used car, so parts may have been changed by another company, and your queations were about the tuning, which we do not teach.


----------



## SR BEAST (Mar 6, 2005)

EndlessR said:


> Your car was not bought directly from us, but was a used car, so parts may have been changed by another company, and your queations were about the tuning, which we do not teach.



I got it sorted it out now

thanx :thumbsup:


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

EndlessR said:


> Mick and others who are trying to flame us, continue as you will as we have nothing to hide.
> 
> Mick + friends, even mattias doesnt know whats wrong with the car.....so getting all fired up about something you don`t no anything about.....its a little foolish....and your forum antics become tiresome to say the least, I wait for the "stella" retort.


I do know what is wrong Don't you worry about that.


Mick


----------



## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)

cam belt?


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Hi5 said:


> cam belt?


 Brave move, lol.


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Hi5 said:


> cam belt?





R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Brave move, lol.


I dont think so Rob and as you well know it is easy for some to throw dirt, but I am sure Hi5 is pushing the limits of his Skyline, working later into the wee hours to( yeah right)

Be real $hit happens and that's all there is to it but so long as people like your good self, Mick and other's keep posting about project's, days at the strip, track etc then the forum will continue to be a great place to learn about our cars.





Smokey :thumbsup:


----------



## AlexH (Aug 17, 2008)

dont mean to resurrect a old post, but i love the way you big power boys deal with the trash talking!!!
put yir car where yir mouth is!!!!! plane and simple
love it

alex

oone of the best threads going imo


----------



## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

The moment of truth is very very close guys 
Matts will write everything soon.


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

260Z said:


> The moment of truth is very very close guys
> Matts will write everything soon.



How soon?

We're all itching to know. Come on Matts, put us out of our misery!

To be honest, buying a big power car from Japan is a bit of a lottery. Are all those parts really inside that engine? Has the engine been built by somebody that knows what he is doing? How long is it going to last until it goes bang and needs a huge amount of wedge thrown at it? And will the car perform here the way the seller claims it performs in Japan?

So far, all the big power cars I've seen come over from Japan, haven't run anywhere near the times they ran in Japan, or made the power they claimed to have made there. So either the cars aren't what the sellers claim, or the new owners can't drive to save their life. Either way, I think I'd rather have a car built than import an unknown quantity. Unless you like buying a cars reputation and past glory, and intend to trade on its laurels, then I don't see the point. At least with a fresh build you know what's what, if you go to the right tuner of course!!


----------



## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Boosted said:


> We're all itching to know. Come on Matts, put us out of our misery!
> 
> To be honest, buying a big power car from Japan is a bit of a lottery. Are all those parts really inside that engine? Has the engine been built by somebody that knows what he is doing? How long is it going to last until it goes bang and needs a huge amount of wedge thrown at it? And will the car perform here the way the seller claims it performs in Japan?
> 
> So far, all the big power cars I've seen come over from Japan, haven't run anywhere near the times they ran in Japan, or made the power they claimed to have made there.


Haha yeah the funny thing is it can often work the other way around, I know of quite a number of cars which were brought it with no clue or hint anything hid beneath and people would end up with a ridiculously fast or nicely sorted car. A good example of this ended up being one of NZs first 8s cars, if I remember rightly the Croyden Wholesaler's R32 GTR - was in an auction lot with a sign on it saying "broken gearbox" and was snapped up for reasonably cheap.

It turned out to have a dogbox and multiplate clutch as well as a fairly nasty engine with a Trust T88 bolted onto the side amongst other a host of things. There is another guy here who has been running consistantly on the edge of 10s for years now who had what was basically a turnkey package running a low mount T04R, bought it for a reasonable price back near 2000 from a used car lot. Sweet.

Anyway thats all off topic, good luck with this - look forward to hearing about what its capable of


----------



## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

have patience guys.


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Any news yet??????







Smokey :smokin:


----------



## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

Good things come to those who wait....

Rob


----------



## GeorgeGTR (Feb 16, 2006)

tweenierob said:


> Good things come to those who wait....
> 
> Rob




yep thats what I keep telling myself


----------



## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

Hi Guys!

here you got 2 short film clips.
The first film clip is the first start. 
The second one is when the engine gave 840hp at 2 bar boost with old Trust/Greddy turbos. 
After some adjust of camshafts the engine gave 975hp at the same boost but with new Turbonetics GT35 turbos. 

New film will come soon. 

Korta klipp från bromsningen. - GARAGET - www.garaget.org

Kort klipp från Bromsningen. - GARAGET - www.garaget.org

Nabil


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

all I can say is its no longer Endless car, Mattias and Sugino san had big fall out, so mattias had it tuned else where....

I hope its as fast as it needs to be however I dont think the race would ever happen plus I was told m6beg r33 lemon was also staying street car only...

Rick


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

EndlessR said:


> all I can say is its no longer Endless car, Mattias and Sugino san had big fall out, so mattias had it tuned else where....
> 
> I hope its as fast as it needs to be however I dont think the race would ever happen plus I was told m6beg r33 lemon was also staying street car only...
> 
> Rick


And who told you that?

Mattias and i are very good mates. I will Mattias explain why he moved to another tuner it's got nothing to do with me.


Mick


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

m6beg said:


> And who told you that?
> 
> Mattias and i are very good mates. I will Mattias explain why he moved to another tuner it's got nothing to do with me.
> 
> ...


I bumped into a guy at santapod who talked for a while and commented about the GTR scene here, and the recent times people had run etc etc and your time in the white car, then he said about the lemon staying a road car due to regulations now needed to compete.....

Rick


----------



## ChristianR (May 31, 2005)

what was the fallout over?


----------



## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

EndlessR said:


> all I can say is its no longer Endless car, Mattias and Sugino san had big fall out, so mattias had it tuned else where....
> 
> Rick


Well I'm so glad that it's no longer Endless Car with fake horsepower.


----------



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

260Z said:


> Well I'm so glad that it's no longer Endless Car with fake horsepower.


Its no longer endless car so good luck with it...it did run 8.9 backed up in same day in Japan, if thats not a proof of power, then what is?

Rick


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

I think the car dopped a couple of horses when you shipped it over to Sweden last time with ****ed up engine.


Yeah 8.9 downhill man.
After some calculations the car had maximum 900hp never 1200hp that mats paid for.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

What did the car weigh when it did the 8.9s and what mph did it run, that'll give a pretty good indication of actual hp.

Rob


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

260Z said:


> I think the car dopped a couple of horses when you shipped it over to Sweden last time with ****ed up engine.
> 
> 
> Yeah 8.9 downhill man.
> After some calculations the car had maximum 900hp never 1200hp that mats paid for.


car achieved 1000.5whp at Osaka Autobacs last year (setting the highest ever reading at autobacs anywhere in Japan) the setting was at the wheels, on 2.3bar and no nos used..... so either your math is quite questionable, or I have become very very good at hollywood movie making....secondly contact HKS racing division and tell them they dont know what they are doing when checking engine power.....as they also tested their hideck engine at their office in fuji, 1270hp at the fly. (no nos was fitted then) 

the 8.9s were at sendai, which ok its a little down hill, but they use no VHT at all, so 60fts are always 1.5 over, the car ran 9.01 at central circuit (very flat, and not pretty tarmac like real circuits have and again no vht) so was very fast there....

also, ask option boss what he thought of the car, as when option did their 777m battle which all tuners were invited, who was the company that sat very comfortably in the number 1 spot, and what car was the ONLY car to run a 9sec pass when testing at fuji at this event? :thumbsup:

car we think then weighed in at 1350kg (sugino sans 80kg not included), best terminal speed was 171mph, but on the 8.9 runs was 169mph...(no nos)

Rick


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

With mph like that in 1350kg + 80kg on un prepped tracks, I'd say around 1200hp sounds reasonable.

Just my opinion though and I don't know any of the history behind all this. 

Rob


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

EndlessR said:


> car achieved 1000.5whp at Osaka Autobacs last year (setting the highest ever reading at autobacs anywhere in Japan) the setting was at the wheels, on 2.3bar and no nos used..... so either your math is quite questionable, or I have become very very good at hollywood movie making....secondly contact HKS racing division and tell them they dont know what they are doing when checking engine power.....as they also tested their hideck engine at their office in fuji, 1270hp at the fly. (no nos was fitted then)
> 
> the 8.9s were at sendai, which ok its a little down hill, but they use no VHT at all, so 60fts are always 1.5 over, the car ran 9.01 at central circuit (very flat, and not pretty tarmac like real circuits have and again no vht) so was very fast there....
> 
> ...


How do you explain the engine failure with 5 melted pistons after 1 test run at lowest boost when Mats get the car back from Japan?
The old fuel system could never deliver enough fuel for 1000+ hp


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

260Z said:


> How do you explain the engine failure with 5 melted pistons after 1 test run at lowest boost when Mats get the car back from Japan?
> The old fuel system could never deliver enough fuel for 1000+ hp


so now you agree the power, but change the topic to something else, ok here we go again. 

We never opened the engine (bottom end) we removed head, and piston crown was fine, the piston mattias sent us showed piston ring failure which caused the piston ring to bind to the piston and would not allow for any compression at all. 
Had we had longer time to test the engine on the circuit, we would have had, but mattias wanted the car back asap.

I assume your the new engineer, there for you will know that any engine that is made for this sort of power, is at the limit of its engineering, and any ingredients that are put in it (fuel/oil included) this is JDM drag at its top level, even pro V8s fail, hell even f1 cars fail.....there is no form of motorsports/engineering that can guarantee 100% reliability, especially when pushed parts the limits they were originally concieved to opperate at.

Mattias was made aware that this engine was old, and was offered the new engine we had in stock, (only run in 500km, apposed to mattias engine which was the original engine block we used and did so much racing on. We knew this and advised accordingly. Mattias decided to run the older engine block.

How does the fuel system not cope? we would have never made it to the end of the strip running that power if the fuel system couldnt have coped. 
Agreed we run higher idle fuel pressure, and were perhaps running on maximum capacity, but trust us when we say, we do know what we are doing with RB26s

is that all?


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

EndlessR said:


> car achieved 1000.5whp at Osaka Autobacs last year (setting the highest ever reading at autobacs anywhere in Japan) the setting was at the wheels, on 2.3bar and no nos used..... so either your math is quite questionable, or I have become very very good at hollywood movie making....secondly contact HKS racing division and tell them they dont know what they are doing when checking engine power.....as they also tested their hideck engine at their office in fuji, 1270hp at the fly. (no nos was fitted then)
> 
> the 8.9s were at sendai, which ok its a little down hill, but they use no VHT at all, so 60fts are always 1.5 over, the car ran 9.01 at central circuit (very flat, and not pretty tarmac like real circuits have and again no vht) so was very fast there....
> 
> ...


80kg = 12.6 Stone sugino san is fatter than me 

Rick when he did the 8.9 it must of been a bad 60ft ?. The terminal speed was very good 169 mph.


Mick


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

m6beg said:


> 80kg = 12.6 Stone sugino san is fatter than me
> 
> Rick when he did the 8.9 it must of been a bad 60ft ?. The terminal speed was very good 169 mph.
> 
> ...


LOL he is lighter now, 75kg 

Yes was slow, 1.57, the highest terminal was 171 but 60ft was 1.63 (wheel spin allowed for our higher top speed) 

Now we have new R32 demo car, he his his first ever 1.4 60ft in the R32, thats running hoosiers. 

Rick


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

EndlessR said:


> LOL he is lighter now, 75kg
> 
> Yes was slow, 1.57, the highest terminal was 171 but 60ft was 1.63 (wheel spin allowed for our higher top speed)
> 
> ...


What time did the new car run?


Smokey :smokin:


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Smokey 1 said:


> What time did the new car run?
> 
> 
> Smokey :smokin:


hasnt run full yet, just 60ft test and 2 bar mapping, was going to go to central yesterday, but looks like it will be raining....which sadly means we cant run at sendai as car wont be ready....but there is another event in November, at central so will have one blast this year.

Rick


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## chippy (Mar 14, 2008)

whats going on with this thread says endless posted today at 1.20pm,,,
the last post was in 2008


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

chippy said:


> whats going on with this thread says endless posted today at 1.20pm,,,
> the last post was in 2008


Thats how long it took them to catch me up :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:
























































































Its a Poll :wavey:

R's


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## Hja-Ozz (Oct 8, 2007)

shame this never happened would have been a great race!


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

hehe @ Mick

@ Ozz, would have been a good race indeed, I would have bought some popcorn and a first row ticket anyway. 

Anyone know how Mattias has got on with the car?


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

The car is working outstanding now.

Mattias did 9,84 sec last summer and he is gonna try to reach the magic 8 sec this summer.


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Thats a good time! 

Hope he sees an 8sec run


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## Hja-Ozz (Oct 8, 2007)

Mattias bring it on :thumbsup:

Ozz


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Lol :smokin::smokin::smokin:

I will probably buy the car back off you Ozz when it gets finished.

Cheers.


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

m6beg said:


> Lol :smokin::smokin::smokin:
> 
> I will probably buy the car back off you Ozz when it gets finished.
> 
> Cheers.


Now that does sound very interesting indeed!


.


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## ChristianR (May 31, 2005)

why did you sell her in the first place?


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Because I had 6 cars


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Mick, what happened to the the white 8 second R33? There's been no sign of it for a very long time and I can't see someone buying it and not being out there having a go surely?


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Its a strange world we live in.


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## SmigzyGTR (Mar 20, 2006)

m6beg said:


> Its a strange world we live in.


Get her back Mick....you know you want to buddy


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Get back in there Mick. Hope you're well buddy.


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