# Ac speedtech stage 5 turbo faluire



## amc (Mar 9, 2015)

Hi guys could Any 1 give me any feed back on ac speed techs hybrid stage 5 turbos ? Aet turbos any failures etc


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

*Turbo's*

I think your best bet is to speak directly with Andy.

Andy repaired my friends clutch issue, although after initial repair there was a part failure Andy promptly sorted the issue with no fuss.

Based on what I have seen on there premises I would certainly let them work on my car and purchase products from them.


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## amc (Mar 9, 2015)

Been speaking for last 6 month after engine faluire and 3 sets turbos lets just say customer service is absolutely shocking


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

amc said:


> Been speaking for last 6 month after engine faluire and 3 sets turbos lets just say customer service is absolutely shocking


Care to elaborate a bit? Yours is the first negative comment I've seen about AC Speedtech so it would be nice to hear the full story.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

*turbo*

When speaking to Andy, I have found him to be informative and offer positive solutions and approach to problems.

Maybe it's best to pop over and have a face to face conversation with him and resolve the issue.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Personally I have found acspeedtech to be very helpful and knowledgeable, and they have always gone the extra mile, to find solutions to the problems I have had... I would gladly use them again.


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## ACspeedtech (Aug 25, 2011)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Care to elaborate a bit? Yours is the first negative comment I've seen about AC Speedtech so it would be nice to hear the full story.


Steven (amc) delivered his car to us for (power modification-wise) our ACGT turbo upgrade, intercooler and remap. The car was already tuned to 'stage 4.25' by another tuner and was relatively a new car to himself.

Steven,
We fitted and mapped the first set of turbos and you collected the car. (circa 750hp and torque capped at circa 620ftlb)
You had an issue with them within a short space of time.
Cause of failure on inspection: Abuse/Oil supply issue
Turbos replaced, refitted and remapped for free despite inspection results.
Cost to you: Fuel/Recovery
Cost to us: Pair of oem turbos plus ACGT modifications, 3 days labour, engine fluids

Second set of turbos (modified/replaced oil feed lines):
You had an issue with them within a short space of time.
Cause of failure on inspection: Abuse/Oil supply issue
Turbos replaced, refitted and remapped for free despite inspection results.
Cost to you: Fuel/Recovery
Cost to us: Pair of oem turbos plus ACGT modifications, 3 days labour, engine fluids

Third set of turbos (you were told that if these fail there must be an engine issue and we had done as much as possible to confirm the turbos were 100% fine and within spec):
You had an engine failure within a short space of time, in 1st gear, sub 40mph, low load.
Cause of failure: Oil supply issue?
Note: We have already covered the cost of the turbos to be inspected/rebuild/rebalanced and returned to you in light of the unfortunate circumstances.

All our customers we have installed these turbos for have no issues with them and we continue to develop our ACGT turbo upgrades.
As a gesture of goodwill, we have already supplied you a replacement bellhousing and a steering rack which you required to rebuild your car as we had them spare here at the shop, again, for free.
Given the motorsport warranty on all aftermarket components, and the recurring inspection evidence. I feel we have assisted beyond what could be expected of us over the course of our involvement with your car.

If you have any issues with our service, please contact the shop on 01925 830889 mon-fri 9am-5.30pm


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

amc said:


> lets just say customer service is absolutely shocking


Looking at their response I would suggest it's anything but. More like there is an underlying problem with your engine or you lack mechanical sympathy.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

ACspeedtech said:


> Steven (amc) delivered his car to us for (power modification-wise) our ACGT turbo upgrade, intercooler and remap. The car was already tuned to 'stage 4.25' by another tuner and was relatively a new car to himself.
> 
> Steven,
> We fitted and mapped the first set of turbos and you collected the car. (circa 750hp and torque capped at circa 620ftlb)
> ...



Top bloke and a polite reply


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## Donga (Mar 3, 2013)

TREG said:


> Top bloke and a polite reply


Agreed. What great service!! Questions have to be raised about the owner..


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Sounds like he's been abusing the car. Engine failure in 1st? Hmmm... Launching the car repeatedly?...


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## isub (Mar 18, 2013)

Seems like Andy has gone above and beyond what is expected, as always. 
Andy is a top guy who's knowladge and enthusiasm for GTRs really is apparent. Not that his reputation requires validation.


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## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

From a customers point of view; the same problem 3 times with the same diagnostic each time yet left unresolved...no wonder he is asking questions.

Without putting the spanner in the works, it's not the first time I've heard of ac having a come back, intact I've heard it all far too often.

Credit to ac for taking the car back on each occasion but maybe a better evaluation of diagnostic work is needed.


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## smiley7 (Dec 7, 2014)

Andy is a top bloke and always very helpfull and gives a full expkanation to any questions etc.

I will always use ac for as long as i have the GTR


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## nimz (Oct 27, 2007)

TABZ said:


> From a customers point of view; the same problem 3 times with the same diagnostic each time yet left unresolved...no wonder he is asking questions.





ACspeedtech said:


> Steven (amc) delivered his car to us for (power modification-wise) our ACGT turbo upgrade, intercooler and remap. The car was already tuned to 'stage 4.25' by another tuner and was relatively a new car to himself.
> 
> Steven,
> We fitted and mapped the first set of turbos and you collected the car. (circa 750hp and torque capped at circa 620ftlb)
> ...



To me that reads:
1st set failed and the may have been an issue with oil supply. 
2nd set had measures taken to improve oil supply and they failed.
3rd set fitted and a question / statement about the health of the engine was brought up. Engine then failed. 
I assume the 3rd set of turbo's are ok as the is no mention of them failing. 
To me that says a poorly engine has cost a tuner 2 sets of turbos / labour and the owner a catastrophic failure . 
I fail to see where this turbo problem was misdiagnosed 3 times. For what ever reason 2 sets of turbos have failed and 2 sets of turbos have been replaced free of charge.
I don't see what more could have been done


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## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

It's for the customer and AC to sort.

It's as much a headache and financial constraint for AC hence my comment.

To me it appears there is/was an ongoing issue with oil feed/supply that has been misdiagnosed or inadequately repaired.

Hope it gets sorted.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

You will not find better service than Andy and the guys at ACSpeedtech, they are incredibly knowledgable and have always been on hand when I need them, I don't know if many other tuners that are willing to help outside of a normal persons working day, they really do go the extra mile! I had issues with some of my parts that I collected over time for some work (non AC parts) and AC managed to rectify this for me to no financial gain or anything.

They are always on the end of a phone when required even for the dumbest of questions and enquiries and always get a sound reply. 

Given the cost of the turbos in this instance and the gestures made replacing them three times and the advice given I don't see what more they could have done!! It's a very expensive good Will gesture.


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## DonnyMac (Jun 21, 2012)

I don't know the firm in question but by all accounts here they have a good reputation here and have attempted to fix the car on multiple occasions, however, the guy brought his car in for a perceived upgrade and got a broken car back three times.

I think I'd have the hump too.

If you spend money with a supplier you expect the vehicle to be in better condition on return than when it left.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Correction - he didn't get a broken car back, he got a full working car back! upon investigation of the turbos on the failures they were showing signs of possible abuse as stated.

If someone doesn't have any mechanical sympathy then it's on them! They were changed three times FOC and advised from what I can see in the previous page. You can only lead a horse to water! So no he has no right to be grumpy


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## ACspeedtech (Aug 25, 2011)

To clarify somewhat: 'abuse/oil supply issue', abuse would most likely be attributed to insufficient warm up time or hot shut down, oil supply issue would be most likely attributed to insufficient oil flow to maintain the bearing film.
The report on the turbo failure was from the turbo manufacturer not our personal opinion.

On all 3 occasions, the car covered 100-200 miles of testing and mapping under our control to verify all was well before handing over to the customer.
On the 2 times the turbos were inspected, the cause of failure was deemed to be 'abuse/oil supply issue'.
Our turbo upgrades perform fine and fast on all the other cars we have fitted them to.
We stand by all our work and products, but unfortunately we cannot offer a free engine/transmission build to everyone 'just in case' and nor do we have any control over how you look after your car.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

DonnyMac said:


> I don't know the firm in question but by all accounts here they have a good reputation here and have attempted to fix the car on multiple occasions, however, the guy brought his car in for a perceived upgrade and got a broken car back three times.
> 
> I think I'd have the hump too.
> 
> If you spend money with a supplier you expect the vehicle to be in better condition on return than when it left.


I kind of agree

i dont understand how you can call the turbo failure abuse as they were fitted by the shop - oil feed issue i would have thought would have been picked up on the second set and investigated -(although the gtr is a bitch to see the turbos when in the car) just my 2cents 

saying that i would still be happy to take my car there due to the many good reports


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## Lukes R35 GT-R (Mar 1, 2015)

I think it's possibly unfair blaming the owner on abusing both sets of turbos into the ground in such small time how did the oem turbos look and how long was he running them?


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## Impossible (May 11, 2011)

Was the customer informed the new turbo's would need additional care to the originals? where if they did not follow the warm up and cool down procedures would be classed as abuse?


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

If a replacement engine is required then Andy Prince at the R shop is ok with his prices and supply.


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## DonnyMac (Jun 21, 2012)

I'm not sure how you can abuse a turbo, surely it's mapped in and works as it does as part of the overall package.

Admittedly, I've had a new one and was told not to play with the boost for 1k miles to let it settle in, I'm also eager like the rest of us to play but allow all my temps to come up before I really have fun - but, you can't kill three turbos and an engine in 6 months after a multitude of visits to an 'expert' without some questions envolved regardless of others good experience.

Otherwise we'd let any monkeys bolt thing on and off the cars without question - you go to an experienced professional to get experienced and professional advice on your car. Three oil starvation issues should have been picked up.

In my opinion.


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

even abuse will struggle to kill a turbo in a short space of time, if the engine oil pressure was good at the rail was it tested at the turbo oil inlet ? 

very easy to test ive done it myself many times just a t inline at turbo feed into a gauge. 

even full boost from stone cold and instant hot shut off after full boost will take time to kill a turbo, how many miles between failures ?


I had 10 psi running into a t51r running 2.2 bar for about 1500 miles before I realised and opened out the restrictor and it didn't do it any major harm just a little accelerated wear.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Don't you think oil starvation or something to that effect would have made itself Apparent on the 100miles run in and mapping on a dyno? Especially as it's Being mapped! That constant high boost pulls, if it was oil starvation it would have shagged itself right there I would have though.


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

ACspeedtech said:


> Steven (amc) delivered his car to us for (power modification-wise) our ACGT turbo upgrade, intercooler and remap. The car was already tuned to 'stage 4.25' by another tuner and was relatively a new car to himself.
> 
> Steven,
> We fitted and mapped the first set of turbos and you collected the car. (circa 750hp and torque capped at circa 620ftlb)
> ...


 What a *great service* who could complain never mind post such detrimental stuff, credit to you guys, I would use you tomorrow if I was local.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

I would be interested to understand how stock frame turbos might require special attention compared to OEM. Are the cartidges different? And if so, what over OEM turbo care and attention should be considered?


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## DonnyMac (Jun 21, 2012)

John mentioned above that this sounds like great service from the supplier; certainly the response was measured and they seem to have replaced many turbos, but...

Client: hey, I hear you've got a great reputation, can I upgrade my new pride and joy to be even better?

Supplier: yep, that'll be a £1billionty please

Client: here you go, I've heard you're really great

Supplier: all done

Client: yay, I love you

Client: car has gone pop

Supplier: here's a new turbo

Client: yay, they're right, you're great, thanks.

Client: turbos gone pop

Supplier: here's a second turbo

Client: yay, you're brilliant

Client: second turbo has gone bang

Supplier: here's a third one

Client: I'm not sure I love my car anymore, but thanks for the understanding 

Client: the engine has imploded, help

Supplier: here's some leftovers from the heap at the back, you're on your own

Client: err, I only wanted my car to be better than when I gave it to you

Supplier: abuse, ciao for now

This is obviously a fairy tail example, but the punter, the OP, is in a similar position, paid his money for an upgrade and got a busted car in return.

I maybe talking out of turn, but isn't it litchfields how do a full once over on your car before they do ANY work on it? I'm not a litchfields love child as its too far away for me to be arsed, but surely that's the way forward to diagnose a car in good health before doing anything to it?

Just mumbling out loud like usual...


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## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Donny that makes perfect sense from a customers point of view.
I don't think anybody is doubting Andy or AC being a nice fella/firm to deal with, but something seems a miss here.
It would seem they have washed their hands of a problem that is beyond their expertise, 3 turbo replacement proves that.
Yet again the customer is the genie pig now left in the lurch.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

They haven't left anyone in the lurch, from What I can make from this the customer hasn't even given anything else as yet, and they certainly will NOT have been given the cold shoulder! 

I highly doubt they are washing their hands of something past their expertise..... They build strong engines, the have tuned and mapped cars with the same turbos to a higher tune than this, they have a GTR master tech on the team!! The expertise and experience required to carry out any work is under that roof right there!

Again there are snippets of information banging around!


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## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Stealth69 said:


> They haven't left anyone in the lurch, from What I can make from this the customer hasn't even given anything else as yet, and they certainly will NOT have been given the cold shoulder!
> 
> I highly doubt they are washing their hands of something past their expertise..... They build strong engines, the have tuned and mapped cars with the same turbos to a higher tune than this, they have a GTR master tech on the team!! The expertise and experience required to carry out any work is under that roof right there!
> 
> Again there are snippets of information banging around!


I'm sure they do mate, just very odd for 3 turbo's to let go in such a short time frame and nothing detected upon dyno/mapping session each time, yet abuse (very vague term) and oil starvation being the cause on all 3 occasions.

Not knocking AC, but really feel for both parties, especially the customer.


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## GTR RGT (Aug 29, 2006)

I've been very pleased with ACspeedtech, friendly and very helpful. Gold dust advice for my gearbox woes. They have been around for a long time. I would defiantly use them for my gtr IF they wasn't so far away! 

I can honestly see that every tuner has to deal with this from time to time as a con to this business sector - it is just a given when earning a living from tuning. 
Just my 2 cents 

Rem


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## ACspeedtech (Aug 25, 2011)

I would ask people do read our previous posts carefully as details appear to be getting missed in subsequent replies. To summarise yet again:

We fitted a set of ACGT turbos to a customers car, these turbos are a proven entity and pressure differentials through the rev range and shaft speeds are all well within spec.

One of the turbos failed. we replaced the pair.
Our words: "One has failed, it's very strange as every other set are perfect. We are told it is due to abuse/oil supply. If it's not abuse then it looks like oil supply issue so we've replaced your oil feed lines incase they are coked up, improved the flow, tested, tested again, and again and all appears well, please go enjoy"

One of the turbos failed (not the same bank). We replaced the pair.
Our words: "Ok, this is now extremely strange, all the others are perfect. We are told it is due to abuse/oil supply again. We have checked as much as we possibly can, all checks out fine, we have tested, tested and tested again and all appears fine. If these fail, and it is not abuse, you MUST have an inherent engine issue and we will need to remove the motor and start to pull it down to investigate. If this is also the case I have reservations about the health of the rest of the motor i.e. bearings etc."

Within a week, we heard the motor had had a serious issue. We requested it to be recovered to us for diagnosis but were told it already was at JM Imports and already being stripped.

Now with a new forged engine (JM Imports), the third set of our supplied turbos are still running having gone through an extensive running in period and mapping sessions (Evotune). Despite having put up with an engine failure and now running at/beyond their limit.


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## AnEvoGuy (Aug 17, 2011)

After that response from ACspeedtech its hard to say how they could have done anymore IMO.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

What's telling for me is that the OP is nowhere to be seen after the initial couple of posts so it just looks like shit stirring and walking away with no intention of putting a case forward as to why he thinks AC are at fault.

As usual though, the lynch mob are out to get the tuner as 'it's always' the tuner's fault, never the owner.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

TABZ said:


> I'm sure they do mate, just very odd for 3 turbo's to let go in such a short time frame and nothing detected upon dyno/mapping session each time, yet abuse (very vague term) and oil starvation being the cause on all 3 occasions.
> Not knocking AC, but really feel for both parties, especially the customer.


From my experience, I've had numerous issues with my gearbox where it had at least 4 different faults at the same time, acspeedtech had it up and down (out the car), more times than jordans knickers! Replacing and uprating custom parts, diagnosing then testing and so on until all the faults where fixed, and I now have a fully functioning gearbox.. in the early days I thought i may need a new box, but they persevered without any complaints and got the job done . 

Personally I would have told me to piss off after a while, because it was a right ball ache..


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## DonnyMac (Jun 21, 2012)

I don't think anyone is out to get the tuner in the slightest, everything written here has been most positive for them; it's the chap with the broken car that everyone feels for, I'd imagine the tuner as well.

I'm no grease monkey by any stretch of the imagination but the only way I could think that the OP could be to blame (in such a small timeframe of failures) is that he ran the car without sufficient oil.

The car tells you on every startup how much oil it has so I dismissed it as a possibility.

The guy has lost faith in his tuner, and I can see why, but if anything, this thread seems to be a great advert for the tuners aftermarket care -even if the original diagnosis was wrong.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

The original diagnoses wasn't wrong, the original diagnoses was investigated and the parts replaced. 

The fact the engine was built and the third set of turbos as still going strong despite running at their limits and beyond proves that the problem was done to the engine and not the turbos! 

Nuff said...... Tuner did everything, recommendations given, after sale care second to non.


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## Lukes R35 GT-R (Mar 1, 2015)

Did jm imports find any underlying issues with the motor what may have caused it?


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

TAZZMAXX said:


> What's telling for me is that the OP is nowhere to be seen after the initial couple of posts so it just looks like shit stirring and walking away with no intention of putting a case forward as to why he thinks AC are at fault.
> 
> As usual though, the lynch mob are out to get the tuner as 'it's always' the tuner's fault, never the owner.


Agree about the OP not responding - as to the lynch mob i do not agree - its a forum and we were giving our opinions to the thread - many of the post said how good the service is from AC and this seems like a rare issue


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## Janet (Mar 10, 2014)

Hi Guys,

I feel I should reply to this one. I have the said,stage 5 turbos all set up and running perfectly by Andy.
I have covered around 3000 real hard miles(full boost,200mph+ attempts ect) with NO ISSUES!!

There is enough guys running this setup with any problems!

Been using AC now for the past 18 months, always very professional, helpful and without a doubt someone you can trust. He will go out of his way to save the customer money without cutting corners.

Research any tuners, there will always be horror story's but in this case something was not quite right.
I would not be putting the blame solely on these turbo upgrades.

Andy will be getting a visit in the near future for my next upgrades and engine internals were I am quite confident that these turbos will be pushed further without worries!!!


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

terry lloyd said:


> as to the lynch mob i do not agree


OK, maybe a bit on the strong side, we'll have to settle for vigilante squad instead:chuckle:

I'm trying not to side but I do sympathise with AC as they appear (in the way they have responded without writing a 20,000 word essay to explain the minutiae) to have addressed the problem as best they can. None of us can judge what went wrong or whether it has been remedied in the correct fashion but from the OP's lack of detail in explaining his issues with AC, I find myself wanting to know more about the situation he finds himself in. Until then, I'm still doubtful as to what has happened to cause multiple turbo failures.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Lukes R35 GT-R said:


> Did jm imports find any underlying issues with the motor what may have caused it?


Good question, waiting to hear the answer opcorn:


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## nismoman (Jul 13, 2004)

i think Andy is being very diplomatic with his reply , which is a credit to how he treats his customers .


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## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Agreed it's nice to see Ac respond in a formal manner.

I'm sure they will be as eager as the owner to get to the bottom of what the underlying issue was.


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## DarrenA (Aug 15, 2012)

Hard to fault the tuner here but at the same time also have to feel for the op- no problem before , get some work done then 3 quick and unexplained failures. I know I would expect answers. Basic problem is where does a tuners responsibility start and finish. On one hand their business is providing upgrades and it could be argued that they shouldnt supply anything that could create faults or at least make sure the customer fully accepts the risks and give costed alternatives that will allow them to provide an iron clad warranty. On other hand if this has been explained customer has to decide from an informed position. in this case though the failures seem bizarre and if it was me I would expect the tuner to identify the true root cause before doing anything else. Yes AC have probably done more than many would in terms of expense but still the customer has a broken car with an inherent fault and doesnt know why. If I was AC I wouldnt have replaced after the second failure until I knew for sure what the root cause was as to do so doesnt help the customer or AC . It just ineviatably will lead to another failure , further aggravation and more cost for someone.


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## ACspeedtech (Aug 25, 2011)

Due to the 'it was fine before' conversation I was pre-empting, we decided to try another set of turbos at our own cost just to 100% remove any question over their spec and manufacture before pulling the motor and having to hand a substantial bill to the customer.


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