# A Secret... From me to you...



## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

Got an email last night, it seems.

I won't say who sent it, but you'll likely know who.



> Steve:
> 
> How's that artwork? I hope you're still pulling out some amazing drawings.
> 
> ...


----------



## psd1 (May 15, 2004)

Wow, I guess my GT-R isnt most, cause it doesnt make 600 HP...

If this is true, I guess just pull the de-tune chip and be off. Who needs the aftermarket? I guess this would leave Nissan a venue to create a higher output version (unlike the V Spec/II) that had no more engine output than the standard spec cars.

Still hard to believe that they would leave 150 HP under the table so to speak...

Keep the info coming, hope you dont burn any bridges if your "source" says Nissan is monitoring the internet.


----------



## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

Yeah you and me both. If so, I may receive and email asking me to remove the post.


----------



## GTRJack (Aug 27, 2005)

As I understand Nissan did on purpose detuning the new GTR not to access over 500 horsepower coz many country (they're gonna sell the car to) has high tax penalty rate (cars over 500 horsepower). If I understood right they did the same for the Z-tune to degrade the car to 500 horsepower for the emission when the car could actually put up to 630 horsepower stock.. I could be wrong but that's what I remember. I believe it's the same for the new GTR. By regulate the chip and maybe a boost controller the new GTR could easely produce over 600 horsepower..


----------



## skyline69_uk (Jan 6, 2005)

Nissan has already said the new car would not have Super HICAS. Seems like a load of BS to me.


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

> The 2009 GT-R will have an engine producing 470hp, but that figure will be controlled by a De-Tune Chip, as Nissan expects most owners to tune their cars Immediatley after purchase. In actuality, Nissan has carefully studied GT-R forums around the internet and has concluded that most of the previous GT-R's made in excess of 600 Horsepower.
> 
> Therefore the actual output of the new VQ37 will be in the region of 620 Horsepower, give or take a few digits. As well as this major horsepower, expect a new Super HICAS somewhat like Honda's Adaptive Handling system as used in their Legend. The only difference is that the RL has most power sent to it's front wheels, as the GT-R will have all 4 wheels garnering the car power, and will use a new system that activates power to each wheel independently. On an empty Nordschleife, the car has run 7:42.
> 
> I hope you're happy with my insight, and I'm sitting here in just as much anticipation as you.


Just a few comments.
The car has never been referred to by Nissan as the "2009 GT-R". Because of delays etc and because of different launch dates and especially the fact it will be shown later this year I very much doubt it would be referred to as "2009"

Most GT-Rs do not make in excess of 600bhp. Firstly take a look at this forum and then apply your findings to Australia and New Zealand and the few other forums that have a smattering of GT-Rs. TIn addition you need to understand the very different opinions and views between (for example) the UK scene and the scene in Japan. The latter of these sees very few cars approaching 600bhp as the preference in Japan is to keep the car as original as possible. Indeed if you talk to many owners in Japan they almost frown at what we in ther UK in particular do with these cars. It smacks of disrepect that we do this to these fine vehicles.

I couldn't posdsibly comment on the front/rear power/drive comments but I would venture as to say this is not correct. I may be wrong.

I am not saying that the information you have been sent is wrong just that it completely disagrees with information we have heard in other quarters, notably from some very senior people in Nissan and elsewhere.


----------



## trondhla (Oct 1, 2003)

There are a lot of GTR-rumors floating around on the net. Here is another one:
Another Gt-r Spotted! This One Broke Down! (pics + Story) - evolutionm.net

Unverified too as far as I can read.


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Super HICAS, IIRC, is gone in this GTR iteration. 

600HP+ is difficult to achieve and most tuners do not run this. above this mark, the car is pretty much set up for drag and not street use, requiring very expensive stroker kits and all else. 

i say the email may have some shreds of truth with tons of bullsh!t.


----------



## VQ3.6TWINTURBO (Feb 24, 2007)

bonzelite said:


> Super HICAS, IIRC, is gone in this GTR iteration.
> 
> 600HP+ is difficult to achieve and most tuners do not run this. above this mark, the car is pretty much set up for drag and not street use, requiring very expensive stroker kits and all else.
> 
> i say the email may have some shreds of truth with tons of bullsh!t.


A twin turbo VQ will do it no problem.


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

VQ3.6TWINTURBO said:


> A twin turbo VQ will do it no problem.


the RB26 was designed to handle 600HP stock. but to achieve this is not easily done. i'm sure a stock VQ could handle 600HP but to achieve this is another story.


----------



## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

From Who to You?


----------



## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

Howsie said:


> From Who to You?


An educated guess would be Hans G Lehmann, the car-spy-photographer since Steve has written in previous threads that he´s had contact with him before. Why he would have info like this is beyond me since I´d imagine that the car manufacturers would try their best NOT to share info with guys like him...?? But that´s just my thoughts.  

/P


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

Howsie said:


> From Who to You?


From me to him . . :chuckle:


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

In the past few months I have met the man who designed the R34, the man who was in charge of the whole project, the GM Design at Autech, the VP Customer Service at Nismo and a lot of other 'dignatories' from Nissan and associated companies. I couldn't get a peep out of them despite the fact they were very keen to hear about the club and what people were expecting of the new car. They were very interested to hear what I had to say on the matter but wouldn't say anything of significance in return. 

So why would they tell a photographer?


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Fuggles said:


> In the past few months I have met the man who designed the R34, the man who was in charge of the whole project, the GM Design at Autech, the VP Customer Service at Nismo and a lot of other 'dignatories' from Nissan and associated companies. I couldn't get a peep out of them despite the fact they were very keen to hear about the club and what people were expecting of the new car. They were very interested to hear what I had to say on the matter but wouldn't say anything of significance in return.
> 
> So why would they tell a photographer?


exactly

the saturation we have of late-breaking "well, i was at a party and heard this from official nissan people off the record..." is all crap. 

here are only some of the "i heard this officially" bullsh!t, regardless if it's "actually" true:

-its a V8
-it's going to be called Skyline GTR in the JDM
-it's a VQ37DETT-HR
-it has 450hp
-it has 470hp
-it has 500hp
-it has HICAS
-it doesn't have HICAS
-it's called R35
-it's called V36
-it's called BNC36
-it's a 2009 model
-Cosworth is involved
-Cosworth isn't involved
-Lotus is involved
-Lotus isn't involved


--all of the above has been "confirmed" by someone at some time. 

so all who have such confirmations can fuc$k off.


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

here is yet another "official" report:

Autoweek


> We're not sure what got into Nissan, but the company recently unleashed a truckload of engineering mules of its forthcoming GT-R sports car on public roads and racetracks from Bay City, Michigan, to Sonoma, California. Eagle-eyed shooter Paul Sterling caught these shots as a partially-camoflauged GT-R ran some hot laps on Feb. 12 at Infineon Raceway in California.
> 
> Word at the track was this GT-R was powered by a 3.5-liter, twin-turbocharged V6 making 500 hp, sending power to all four wheels via a paddle-shifted transmission. Despite Nissan's assertions that the car will not be Infiniti-badged, an engineer called the car a "2008 Infiniti Skyline GT-R." No matter what they call it, the production car premieres this fall at the Tokyo show, followed by a U.S. introduction in 2008.


----------



## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

bonzelite said:


> here are only some of the "i heard this officially" bullsh!t, regardless if it's "actually" true:
> 
> -it's a 2009 model
> 
> ...


The only one of the above that I have seen officially confirmed is that it will be a 2009 model in the US. Nissan USA have made a special page on their website for it:

2009 Nissan GT-R - Official Site

In my book, the rest is BS until proven to be true.

/P


----------



## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Love these threads, Why they would de-tune this car so much is a bit silly, Nismo de-tuned the z-tune for more reasons than emissions, they detuned it because it would increase engine reliability but a large margin, the difference 100 HP or so makes on engine ware is rather high. 

Didnt this Hans guy come up some place else on the forum , when he confirmed 470 ? how the hell would he know? Spy photographers are like the Paparatzi of the car world, everyone in the car industry hate them, but has to deal with them, and i highly doubt people in Nissan would give away such specific numbers to a guy like that, goes against everything they were trying to protect.

Ah well, maybe he has magical ears that can pick out engine HP from the sound of the car, or super high zoom lenses that can take picture of the dyno result in japan from where ever he is, WHO KNOWS!!! I just enjoy knowing that, in 2010 im gonna be wanting one hell of a wedding gift ;P


----------



## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

It's not Hans.


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Doesn't matter who it is. It's still all rumour hearsay and not all correct


----------



## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

I can attest to that as a matter of factly.

I may have made the post, but I've found the information to be incorrect.

Sorry about that.

Steve.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

i heard they were going to call it the nissan "Rude boy" but a guy in the parts department pointed out there was still a box of GTR badges left on the shelf, and that they should really use them all up first.

thats what a bloke in the pubs, mates, mates, mums dogs, brothers owners wife told a deaf man in a lift.

mook


----------



## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

ah..then it must be true!


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

My wife says they're all called GT-Crap and the drivers GT-Assholes . . . .:nervous:


----------



## skylineGTR_Guy (Mar 23, 2004)

That autoweek quote about the infiniti GTR is plain bull crap, despite the fact that we all know its crap, if you want proof simply go to the trademark office and do a search, there is no trademark on file for an infiniti GTR, only a Nissan GTR and this has been the case since march of 2002 according to the records.

Word Mark NISSAN GTR
Goods and Services IC 012. US 019 021 023 031 035 044. G & S: Motor vehicles, namely, automobiles, trucks, vans, sport utility vehicles and structural parts therefor except tires
Filing Date March 12, 2002
Owner (APPLICANT) NISSAN JIDOSHA KABUSHIKI KAISHA TA Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. CORPORATION JAPAN No.2 Takaracho, Kanagawa-ku Yokohama-shi, Kanagawa-ken JAPAN
Type of Mark TRADEMARK


Curiously enough I've also found registration for "infiniti R Spec" registered by nissan, it has 3 trade marks. the first for lisence plate frames and such, the 2nd for travel bags, and the third for automotive performance parts and the part of interest is this:
*
"automotive engine parts, namely turbo chargers and super chargers"*


----------



## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

gtrlux said:


> My wife says they're all called GT-Crap and the drivers GT-Assholes . . . .:nervous:


Well that's you guys off the New Year card list... :chuckle:


----------



## RH18 (Feb 23, 2007)

i heard it was going to have a Renault V8 with pnumatic valves that was detuned from F1, Carlos told me, really.


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Yeah it's going to be front wheel drive as well with RWD only coming in when the extra power is needed


----------



## Caoboth (Jul 25, 2003)

Well ive officialy heard that the next GTR will be available in silver (honest guv a guy down the pub told me)

Andy


----------



## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

I've heard it will have monkeys crawling out of the exhaust, a Tim Hortons Coffee stand, and a Hot new Brunette with every purchase.

I've also heard it comes in silver, green, and with a material that feels like grass, looks like grass, and is made out of grass.

But then again, this may all be speculation.


----------



## Connor GTR (Jan 10, 2007)

I heard the new GTR has Vtec.. The Pope himself told me


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

6speed said:


> I've heard it will have monkeys crawling out of the exhaust, a Tim Hortons Coffee stand, and a Hot new Brunette with every purchase.
> 
> I've also heard it comes in silver, green, _*and with a material that feels like grass, looks like grass, and is made out of grass.*_
> 
> But then again, this may all be speculation.


OMFG LOL!!!!!!!:clap:


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

6speed said:


> I've heard it will have monkeys crawling out of the exhaust, a Tim Hortons Coffee stand, and a Hot new Brunette with every purchase.
> 
> I've also heard it comes in silver, green, and with a material that feels like grass, looks like grass, and is made out of grass.
> 
> But then again, this may all be speculation.



There's as many "facts" in that as there are in your initial post. lol


----------



## psd1 (May 15, 2004)

moleman said:


> There's as many "facts" in that as there are in your initial post. lol


Snap Son!opcorn:


----------



## GTRJack (Aug 27, 2005)

I heard the car has pussy wormer :chuckle:


----------



## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

GTRJack said:


> I heard the car has pussy wormer :chuckle:


....wormer...nasty!


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

And Jason Dawe has said that the brake discs definately wont explode on this car.


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

What is sure is that it will have VQ35HRTT with 480 HP . . . . well Wiki told me:chuckle: 
Nissan VQ engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## GTRJack (Aug 27, 2005)

gtrlux said:


> What is sure is that it will have VQ35HRTT with 480 HP . . . . well Wiki told me:chuckle:
> Nissan VQ engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


LOL!


----------



## hyrev (Apr 30, 2004)

Howsie said:


> From Who to You?


Hans Solo, Humpty Dumpty, Alf......come on, who told you? I bet they said it will be FWD too and only available in A/T with 165/70 R15 wheels right?


----------



## MuXBoX (Feb 27, 2007)

Perra said:


> The only one of the above that I have seen officially confirmed is that it will be a 2009 model in the US. Nissan USA have made a special page on their website for it:
> 
> 2009 Nissan GT-R - Official Site
> 
> ...


Lol even the US site cant make up its mind. In the title it says 2009 and in the blurb on the page it says "It will go on sale in Japan in Fall 2007. U.S. and Canada will follow in Spring 2008" !!  

All i know is that i have just purchased R34 and love it so much i am thinking to go put deposit on this car without the need to read the specs. Just the videos and speculation on this site are enough to get me excited. 

Nissan GTR Proto


----------



## gizmo71 (Sep 10, 2006)

MuXBoX said:


> Lol even the US site cant make up its mind. In the title it says 2009 and in the blurb on the page it says "It will go on sale in Japan in Fall 2007. U.S. and Canada will follow in Spring 2008" !!


No reason to doubt any of it - in North America cars are always marketed with a model year designation a year ahead of reality (ie. cars currently on sale are regarded as 2008 cars).


----------



## psd1 (May 15, 2004)

gizmo71 said:


> No reason to doubt any of it - in North America cars are always marketed with a model year designation a year ahead of reality (ie. cars currently on sale are regarded as 2008 cars).



Uhhh, no not true. There are a few 08's on the lots though. Generally the next year models come out starting in September or so...


----------



## KINGLEH (Feb 26, 2007)

who cares what the number is....... 450 470 500... all that can so easily be changed...


i wana know if it pulled the 997 turbo down the strates at laguna..... or if the same... or if it got pulled....


then we know about how fast it is in a strate line...


----------



## MuXBoX (Feb 27, 2007)

You can make any car fast in a straight line. 

What i want to know is how good is the new chassis gonna be and are they gonna show the world some new techno breakthroughs that make a car go around a corner even faster than ever possible before.


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

MuXBoX said:


> You can make any car fast in a straight line.
> 
> What i want to know is how good is the new chassis gonna be and are they gonna show the world some new techno breakthroughs that make a car go around a corner even faster than ever possible before.


yes. it must live up to this. within the production cycle of the new GT-R, the 7:36 Nurburgring mark will be achieved by the next V10 supercars from Honda and Toyota. Nissan must out-innovate these pending slaughter machines or the GT-R will just become a brief footnote and a letdown.


----------



## Tom_B (Mar 27, 2007)

*Top Gear*

Hi everyone,

First time poster, many time reader!

Anyway, I thought I’d share with you yet more speculation, this time from Top Gear Magazine, the excellent BBC magazine affiliated with the show. The magazine has been trying to follow the progress of the up-and-coming GT-R. Thier latest instalment goes as follows;

"_Nissan is aiming higher than it ever has with the new GT-R. Previous Skyline GT-Rs-based on ordinary cooking Skylines in Japan-never had to meet such a demanding brief. But they still dominated on road and track. The Skyline name is gone. the GT-R badge stays, and suddenly it's a bespoke unit designed to lift the Nissan name to new heights by blowing the Porsche 911 Turbo away. The essence of all the best bits of every Skyline that's gone before-40 years of history, no less-needs to be distilled into this GT-R, a PlayStation generation weapon like no other. Boy, it needs to be good. And Nissan knows it.

What's the engine? We don't know, Nissan won't say, and guesses have ranged from 12 through 10 through 8 through 6 cylinders in various configurations. But a disguised test car has now been running around the streets of LA in convoy with a 911 Turbo and by all accounts it sounds like a six. With turbos. So a 350Z engine on 'roids, probably. The test location is significant, because for the first time, America will be a prime market for the GT-R. Dollars talk. Oh, and, it’s been seen at the Nurburgring as well, naturally, going very hard.

The relatively tall V6 engine might explain the trouble Nissan is rumoured to have had getting the block mounted low enough for proper weight distribution, sitting as it does above the front differential. And we saw test mules lapping quickly at the Lotus test track at Hethel, so it would seem some British consultancy work has proven useful for the suspension guys.

Purists say this isn't a real GT-R-it'll be too expensive, out of reach of most people, and that goes against the ethos of the great Skylines of the past. They are probably right, but it shouldn't take anything away from the engineers who've honed it-close to perfection, surely._” 
(Bill Thomas, Issue 164, Top Gear Magazine)

Well, does that clear it up?!?! Not much, other than it seems, contrary to a previous post, Lotus was involved. 

So if motor journalists from one of the more widely distributed motoring magazines are still clueless how can some of the speculators make thier claims? Only one thing can be for sure, Porsche will be as speculative as all of us......


Tom


----------



## Tom_B (Mar 27, 2007)

ooh, forgot to say, this issue of Top Gear has excellent articles on the other new Japanese protos; 
new Lexus (LF-A), the horrid looking new Honda (NSX poss?!) and the crazy Toyota (FT-HS)


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

interesting updated fresh media about the GT-R. indeed, not much new except maybe the Lotus rumour is closer to being a truth. 

the thing is, the GT-R has got to annihilate Porsche and Corvette in Nurburgring times or the GT-R will no longer quite hold the magical dominance and prestige that the name implies. it must make mid to high 7:30s on the Ring. it must win the hearts of the media newcomers as well as the pre-existing fans who love the car no matter what. the Ring time must be at least 7:38 as a debut, with times improving as variants are offered.


----------



## Tom_B (Mar 27, 2007)

Aghrr!! The overated 'Ring obsession! 
I'm sure i'm going to get shot down for this but read my reasoning;

If memory serves me correctly the R33 GT-R was the the first production car to post a sub 8 minute lap of the 'Ring with Dirk Schoymans piloting it in 1997. Just a (skeptical) point though, was this a totally standard car? I heard that the car had been set-up through many test laps and was runing uprated boost and not especially road legal tyres. All i'm saying that if this is true, then what are the possibilities?

Who knows what times can be posted if these tactics are currently used by manufacturers, or indeed if they have used them in the past. This would therefore surely negate the whole relevance of 'Ring times. 

A review in Top Gear from 1997 pitted a 'Vette vs Ferrari 355 vs 911 vs AC Schnitzer E36 vs R33 vs E36 M3 at the Nurburgring with 'Ring Meisters driving each car. The three testers got a couple of laps in each car, one of which was a hot lap. One of the testers was (drum roll...) Dirk. On posting mid 8's, I think, (it was 10 years ago!) he was asked why he couldn't achieve the record time and it was him who suggested that the R33 had been 'tweaked' for the 'Ring. 

And finally, the relevance of all this?
Don't be seduced by 'Ring times. Nissan could make this go as quick as they like - add some super sticky semi slicks, higher octane fuel, a slight remap perhaps, etc, etc. The same can be said for times posted by a 911 Turbo or a GT3. In Top Gears independant test it was the tricked out Schnitzer with its Carbon Fibre panels, preped engine, stripped interior and sticky tyres - it was truely set up to be good at the 'Ring - which came out triumphant. I think the R33 came in 4th (Schnitzer then 355, then 911 then R33 I think). Oh and the R33 was from Nissan UK totally standard and exactly as you'd get off the fore-court.

'Ring times are great for pub boasts and forum bragging, just don't get carried away with them. I'm sure the GT-R will achieve the desired times. Do you think Nissan can afford to miss the target?! The 'Ring is now seemingly the Holy Grail of proving grounds which many people entrust all thier faith into. If results can be doctored by non-standard vehicles what is the point? Well people only see the time at the end of it and are blown away. I don't have any R33 sales blurb but what is the betting that the time the car posted at the 'Ring played a dominant role in the selling of the car to European buyers?!? Lets just take times with a pinch of salt. We know that the GT-R will post a phenominal time just how phenominal is the question. Just try and find a standard car to replicate it.

Tom

p.s. Sorry for another long post! I'll have to be paying your optician bills!


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

I have argued this point a few times on here. The only thing to support Dirk's 7'59 is that Best Motoring laped a supposedly stock 33 in 8'01, (stock 32 in 8'21) otherwise all things point to an essentially stage 1 car on sticky tyres.

If I ever meet Mr Schoysman, I will ask him.


----------



## Tom_B (Mar 27, 2007)

Yes I remember reading about the Best Motoring lap. Is there a vid of it or any pics of the car used?

It would be hugely interesting to see if it was a Stage 1 car.

Tom


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

There are vids of both 32 & 33 laps. The 32 lap is on youtube, the 33 lap - or at least a film about it - is a bit more difficult to find but has been posted here before.


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Dirk Schoyman is often to be found at Spa when the GTROC visits


----------



## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)

R-32 lap - 8:22

BNR32 on Nurburgring - Google Video


----------



## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)

R-33 Lap - 8:01





Fullscreen


----------



## Tom_B (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks for the vid.

That was an extremely impressive run and lateral grip was awesome. 
Can any R33 GT-R owners compare the performance of that car with thier own car as standard? I'm still dubious. Is Best Motoring truly independant?

But the fact of the matter remains, 'Ring times are not to be relied on. Discussion of whether this or Dirk's car were standard is the point exemplified. Seemingly the best comparisson is availabe from Sport Auto who do a Supertest which includes various disciplines. The list of results is available from this link; 
Sport-Auto Tuning + Zubehör Supertest-Liste ist online

Unfortunately Skylines don't appear on the list, which is dominated by German cars.

Getting back though, speculative times for the GT-R are pointless. I'd expect it to beat the 911 GT3 (977) as most of us would but nailing a time is impossible.

Tom


----------



## GTRJack (Aug 27, 2005)

Yes it's VERY impressive consider we know the weight and the stock power output. At the time there was no 300 horsepower mark car to be faster


----------



## Iain_21 (Aug 24, 2004)

the joys of rumours and all the hype eh! someone said this someone said that bla bla bla I guess the only way to get the real facts is just to sit on our hands wait and save our pennies until it comes available


----------



## Big Sev (May 15, 2005)

Blimey, someone will be telling me that there will be hamster in a wheel driving the water pump next

I there anyway that someone can list what we know to be actually true?

Sev


----------



## devin (Jan 20, 2006)

bonzelite said:


> it must make mid to high 7:30s on the Ring.


You know the cars in this time region ? Pagani Zonda F or Koenigsegg CCR.
Theres no way a stock GTR could reach this times, maybe with 800+ bhp but not 6xx bhp or even 4xx bhp.


----------



## MuXBoX (Feb 27, 2007)

I would imaging 7:40's is acheivable even if it is 7:49  7:30's would be a massive suprise from nissan if they could pull that off


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

devin said:


> You know the cars in this time region ? Pagani Zonda F or Koenigsegg CCR.
> Theres no way a stock GTR could reach this times, maybe with 800+ bhp but not 6xx bhp or even 4xx bhp.


you are ignoring my posts or selectively reading them. i never said low 7:30s. i said mid to high 7:30s. those cars make low 7:30s on the Ring.

7:40 is 997tt

7:39 would beat that at the narrowest of margins that will give a different number from 7:40. 7:39 is the high 7:30s, as are 7:37 and 7:38. Headlines do matter as well as actual performance. Nurburgring times in this case will be a major motorsport headline sensation --yay or nay. The Nissan GT-R must pacify and placate the media hype for posterity as well as for topical discussion. 

IMHO, a ring time that is worse than C6 and 997tt will be all over the international headlines as a total and complete disappointment of mission and expectation for the GT-R. a 7:39 or 7:38 would be better than a 7:40 --anything would be better than that. the GT-R cannot appear to be "barely" able to "hang." that is not going to cut it. 

as shallow as that may seem, that is the way it is. i guarantee you that.


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

devin said:


> You know the cars in this time region ? Pagani Zonda F or Koenigsegg CCR.
> Theres no way a stock GTR could reach this times, maybe with 800+ bhp but not 6xx bhp or even 4xx bhp.


as well the GT-R has already beaten the 997tt at Laguna Seca. it's not the Nurburgring, but is a rumbling of things to come. so 7:39 is very likely if not guaranteed. i will wager that the time will be better than 7:39.


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Tom_B said:


> Aghrr!! The overated 'Ring obsession!
> I'm sure i'm going to get shot down for this but read my reasoning;
> 
> If memory serves me correctly the R33 GT-R was the the first production car to post a sub 8 minute lap of the 'Ring with Dirk Schoymans piloting it in 1997. Just a (skeptical) point though, was this a totally standard car? I heard that the car had been set-up through many test laps and was runing uprated boost and not especially road legal tyres. All i'm saying that if this is true, then what are the possibilities?
> ...


i highly doubt all Ring times and means to achieve these times are fraudulent or dubious. the sensationalism that will sweep every motorsport article and magazine and headline will be a strong force buttressed by either negative or positive news about the GT-R's standing among it's arch rivals of Porsche and Corvette. this hype will largely if not nearly entirely hang in the balance of Nurburgring times. these times will not be the only relevant points of interest, but will be extremely important to the image campaign that Nissan and Nismo require at the outset.


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

here is an excerpt from some Ring times. indeed, times can change, be in dispute, etc.. and this list attests to that. there are multiple listings for the same type and make of car making different times at different dates. some of the times have question marks. 

all Ring times are not fraudulent or irrelevant as is being suggested by others in this thread; here is but a fraction of a vast list:

Nurburgring Track Times - Supercars.net
7:28 --- 166.652 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, Walther Roehrl,(Autobild 07/04)
7:32* -- 164.071 km/h – Pagani Zonda F, 650 PS/ 1230 kg, (*mfr.) Importer of Pagani Automobili Zonda C12S Zonda F, Roadster, Lamborghini, Ferrari, classic cars
7:32.44 163.911 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, definitive time Horst von Saurma (sport auto 01/04)
7:32.52 163.882 km/h -- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann (sport auto 01) , TopNews
7:33 --- 163.708 km/h -- Pagani Zonda F, 602 PS/ 1371 kg, Horst von Saurma (sport auto 05/06),
sport auto Supertest: Pagani Zonda F - Supercars.net
7:34 --- 163.586 km/h -- Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1418 kg, Horst von Saurma (sport auto), oct,17-18 05, Koenigsegg Official Website,
7:36 --- 162.631 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (02)
7.39* -- 161.575 km/h -- Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1395 kg, *mfr. (quote sport auto 05/06)
7:39 --- 161.575 km/h -- Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1180 kg, Koenigsegg Official Website
7:39.39 161.219 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, Walther Röhrl (AutoBild 02/06)
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h – Bugatti 16/4 Veyron, 1001 PS/1980 kg (Wheels magazine Australia, 12/05)
7:40* -- 161.217 km/h – Lamborghini Murcielago LP640, 640 PS/1655 kg (AutoBild sportscars 01/07) *mfr., company test driver Giorgio Sanna
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren, Klaus Ludwig (AutoBild 07/04)
7:40* -- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1495 kg, *cold and partially wet track (sport auto 12/03)
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche 997 Turbo, 480 PS/ ??? kg, Michelin Cup Sport tyres (Motortrend)
7:41 --- 160.868 km/h -- Manthey Porsche GT3 M410, 413hp (AutoBild 07/04), www.manthey-motors.de/nextshopcms/cmspdf.asp?id=217
7:42* -- 160.519 km/h – Ford GT, 550 PS/ 1521 kg (*as indicated by Octane magazine, 11/05)
7:42 --- 160.519 km/h -- Mosler MT900S Photon, Joao Barbosa (04) (according to dailysportscar.net)
7:42 --- 160.519 km/h – Porsche 997 GT3 RS, 415 PS/1420 kg (*mfr.)
7:42 --- 160.519 km/h -- Radical 1500 SR3, 230 PS/510 kg (02)
7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h -- Corvette Z06, 500 PS/1319 kg, Jan Magnusen, (Sporbilen, jun,26 05), SUPERCARS.NET - Community Forums


----------



## Tom_B (Mar 27, 2007)

bonzelite; I'm not quite sure who you are refering to when you say, "_all Ring times are not fraudulent or irrelevant as is being suggested by others in this thread_". I know that I have said that times COULD be doctored by underhand tactics but I have never suggested that all times are. 

What i have said, and still confidently believe, is that Nissan cannot afford for the GT-R's times to fall short of the 997tt which I reasoned with reference to the sub 8 minute R33 time in a previous post. For the publicity of yet more supercar-smashing times who knows what the development team might do. After all, no one could proove them wrong. The prooving car is not subject to scrutiny and weather/conditions can be used to explain differences in times like those of the Carrera GT's as listed in the previous post. 

The bottom line as far as i'm concerned is that the GT-R will post an improved time over the 997tt, as a later developed, direct competitor should. If they take it to the 'Ring and it anihilates the 997 out-of-the-box then enough said; job done. If this isn't the case, later honing or development will most certainly take place; that's common sense. If these developments filter through, great. If they don't, we wouldn't know anyway. But my intial point remains, take Nurburgring times with a pinch of salt.

Tom


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

i understand your point about not taking the Ring times too far as _absolute benchmarks_ of performance. i get it and have understood it. 

lots of factors weigh in such as track conditions due to weather, the driver, the car's setup for that day. all kinds of things. and this is why multiple times are published and added to the list for the same makes and models of cars; the times are always changing and evolving. 

but go publish a debut "official" time --whatever that means-- in the motorsports press about the new GT-R being "slower" than the Z06 and 997tt and see how quickly the rock sinks. that would be an utter humiliation to Nissan. that headline would never be downplayed. 

i see your point fully so do you see mine?


----------

