# Forge Motorsport Transmission Cooler....installed & tested



## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Hi Guys,

i have installed the Forge Motorsport transmission cooler last week and tested it yesterday on the Nordschleife:bowdown1:

To make it short,i couldn´t get the transtemp higher then 109 degrees in 4 Laps,it stays there and even goes lower at high speeds,then climbs back to 108 or so when youre having a twisty section with lots of shifting again,but there was no chance to go any higher then 109 degrees...

Laptimes have been around the 8 min BTG mark,as there was some traffic(mainly Porkers which didn´t have the rear view mirror option).

On a free lap the BTG times would be easy in the 7.25 area,sadly best was a 7.45 with a lot of traffic...

Forge Motorsport quality is perfect,really spot on,no problems...no cheap pump like a company from the other side of the world...all perfectly fitting...this is how it should be:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Best regards
Alex


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

As I said to you on the phone Alex, that is fantastic news!

So the most effective transmission cooler on the market happens to be British and the cheapest. Not often that happens!

If I was keeping my 2009 model, I'd be fitting one for sure.
Will see how the 2011 stacks up on track driving, but of course this should fit the new car no problem.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

I would never go for the HKS or Greddy one,as they use the stock oilpump to pump the oil for roughly 6-7 meters....the stock oilpump was never intended to do this,it is running very loud and so i assume it is a lot of stress for the stock oilpump...

Everyone who tracks the GTR should buy a Forge Cooler,its a perfect working solution:clap:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Not as cheap as I thought, but definitely worth it if you see any track time: Forge Motorsport | Alloy Fabrication

Be interested to know why you chose to lower the thermostat temp on yours when Forge explain why theirs is set to 100c, i.e. to burn off any water based contaminants?

Of course the really good news about this cooler is if it can keep temps below 120c, you will virtually never need to change your trans fluid. (2011 car has had intervals doubled to 60k kms if it never exceeds 120c, don't know if that will now be applied to earlier cars or not).


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

I choose the 90 degree thermoswitch as i use my GTR mainly for trackuse,as you know....so it does not have to do a lot of daily driving and the lower the temps stay,the better it is fmpov:wavey:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

I guess so, but theoretically, if a thermostat is doing its job correctly, it shouldn't make any difference to the ultimate temp it reaches, especially as you said it plateau-ed out at 109c, i.e. simply wouldn't go any higher.

Forge claim at Silverstone it didn't go over 112c on a 22c day after 20 minutes, which is as long as you'd want to drive continuously for anyway.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Ähm....Thermoswitch...not thermostat,my fault :bowdown1:


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> As I said to you on the phone Alex, that is fantastic news!
> 
> So the most effective transmission cooler on the market happens to be British and the cheapest. Not often that happens!


Well actually Willall cooler is slightly cheaper, 1 882 £. But practically the same price. And both coolers seems to give the same results.

Forge being UK makes it no. 1 choice tho.


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## Elliott_GTR (Dec 13, 2009)

I have the new GTC one being fitted to mine soon, so I'll let you know how I get on.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Surely some clever Nissan HPCs should be offering this kit as an offically sanctioned upgrade (like the Prodrive kits on the Subarus).

There is form for UK/Euro spec GTRs having transmission coolers fitted.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Cris said:


> Surely some clever Nissan HPCs should be offering this kit as an offically sanctioned upgrade (like the Prodrive kits on the Subarus).
> 
> There is form for UK/Euro spec GTRs having transmission coolers fitted.


Middlehurst advertise the Nismo kit on their website but reading some posts in other threads, their stuff never seems to materialise.


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Excellent stuff Alex, where better to test!  We have fitted a number of GTRs with the Forge transmission cooler and they work superbly.

I think if you are doing a lot of track work I think it is a real benefit. 

Iain


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Middlehurst advertise the Nismo kit on their website but reading some posts in other threads, their stuff never seems to materialise.


I ordered Nismo cooler from official dealer. Waited for 3 months, it never showed up. Dealer said they were waiting for "some parts" from Japan. 

So i cancelled it and got Willall instead. Nismo cooler was twice the price of Willalls. :runaway:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Kurgan said:


> I ordered Nismo cooler from official dealer. Waited for 3 months, it never showed up. Dealer said they were waiting for "some parts" from Japan.
> 
> So i cancelled it and got Willall instead. Nismo cooler was twice the price of Willalls. :runaway:


Isn't the Nismo one a rear diff cooler? Their official stance is that it is the diff generating the heat, not the gearbox. And that a gearbox oil cooler could result in a drop in geabox oil pressure that could lead to failure long term.

However a cooler with an external pump like the Willall and Forge should not result in any drop in pressure.

What are the results of your Willall cooler? Does it have the later, uprated pump?


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## Frosty (Aug 9, 2001)

That's extemely effective then. Good write-up Alex. Well done Forge.


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> Isn't the Nismo one a rear diff cooler? Their official stance is that it is the diff generating the heat, not the gearbox. And that a gearbox oil cooler could result in a drop in geabox oil pressure that could lead to failure long term.
> 
> However a cooler with an external pump like the Willall and Forge should not result in any drop in pressure.
> 
> What are the results of your Willall cooler? Does it have the later, uprated pump?


Local Nissan dealer said its tranny cooler (Nismo), but i never actually saw any specs. I dont think it is differential cooler. Cant be 100% sure tho.

Willall cooler has its own pump. Works great! 
I tested it on a track, used 3/4 tank with only 1 short stop and never got tranny oil temp above 110 C.
And yes, oil pressures stayed normal.

Edit: yep, comes with a new sump too.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Alex, did the Forge kit come with the finned extended sump they show in the photos? I ask because it is not mentioned in the text.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

David.Yu said:


> Alex, did the Forge kit come with the finned extended sump they show in the photos? I ask because it is not mentioned in the text.


Yes,the beautifully finished and finned oilpan is in the kit,with new OEM gasket:wavey:


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

David.Yu said:


> Alex, did the Forge kit come with the finned extended sump they show in the photos? I ask because it is not mentioned in the text.


Yep it comes with all that good stuf David, I have mine on order :thumbsup: it will be nice to buy British


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

David.Yu said:


> As I said to you on the phone Alex, that is fantastic news!
> 
> So the most effective transmission cooler on the market happens to be British and the cheapest. Not often that happens!
> 
> ...


best? how does the greddy, hks and SSP front mount cooler work since those have shown great success over at nagtroc. how much lower do the temps go using this kit?

The Willall didnt work as advertised and the hKS, greddy and ssp front mount work 10 times better.


There is no nismo trans cooler. just a nismo rear diff cooler.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

I dont like the HKS or Greddy one as they use the stock oilpump which isn´t made to pump oil an additional 6 meters....the SSP isn´t looking to be engineered...so im not going to buy it,even if it may work...

Willall is pure ripoff,fmpov....so willall is never coming anywhere near to my GTR:runaway:

The Forge is looking good,working how it should and fitting good....thats what it needs to do...:bowdown1:


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## 1Rosco1 (Jan 18, 2009)

Excellent write up Evolution VI, thank you for that.

I shall be investing in this in the near future


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

mindlessoath said:


> best? how does the greddy, hks and SSP front mount cooler work since those have shown great success over at nagtroc. how much lower do the temps go using this kit?
> 
> The Willall didnt work as advertised and the hKS, greddy and ssp front mount work 10 times better.
> 
> ...


Er, show me the posts that have said the HKS and GReddy coolers have shown "great success"? None of them seem to control the temps that effectively and they are both pretty expensive.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

David.Yu said:


> Er, show me the posts that have said the HKS and GReddy coolers have shown "great success"? None of them seem to control the temps that effectively and they are both pretty expensive.


pretty expensive when you see what you get,no pump,no oilpan,nothing,just 2 lines and an oilcooler...


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Great news...seems that Forge is the way to go!


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## CSL (Jan 18, 2007)

Everyone write letters to dealers first saying that even the 2010 cars with the larger cooling pipes are not fit for more than one lap at a time at the Ring?

Im happy to have the Forge kit installed but would be happier if my local dealer will fit it and Nissan agree that it wont effect my warranty.

Thoughts?


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## CSL (Jan 18, 2007)

Just to add......

The 2011 cars hitting over 120degrees every lap in what were cool conditions is crap basically.

David Yu, you have a large presence with Nissan, please could you write to them saying UK based company called Forge has cured the transmission overheating problem..... Will Nissan OK this product for customers?

They could have the cooler fitted and tested within a week. 

We need a leader David, having known you for over 10 years I can think of no one better.

Henry.


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## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

The oil line connectors on the cooler seems to be very low. Are they touching the diffuser so you need to modify it?

And another question, Alex. Did you remove or replace the washer bottle from your car or did you need to modify it in any way since it´s in the airflows path behind the cooler unless removed.

/P


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

CSL said:


> Just to add......
> 
> The 2011 cars hitting over 120degrees every lap in what were cool conditions is crap basically.
> 
> ...


Nice sentiments Henry - if only life were so simple. If NISMO can't get their cooler into HPCs months after everyone thought it was being introduced, I can't see Nissan approving an external supplier's competing product quickly, if at all. I'd have thought that if anyone was to take this forward though, it should be the recently appointed GTROC reps (no disrespect to David of course).
Cheers
Mick


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

mickv said:


> Nice sentiments Henry - if only life were so simple. If NISMO can't get their cooler into HPCs months after everyone thought it was being introduced, I can't see Nissan approving an external supplier's competing product quickly, if at all. I'd have thought that if anyone was to take this forward though, it should be the recently appointed GTROC reps (no disrespect to David of course).
> Cheers
> Mick


Funny enought Mick, that is one of the things near the top of my list along with transmission oil alternatives, unforunatly I could not make the recent meeting in Germany as that was something I wanted to discuss with Mizuno san.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

mickv said:


> Nice sentiments Henry - if only life were so simple. If NISMO can't get their cooler into HPCs months after everyone thought it was being introduced, I can't see Nissan approving an external supplier's competing product quickly, if at all. I'd have thought that if anyone was to take this forward though, it should be the recently appointed GTROC reps (no disrespect to David of course).
> Cheers
> Mick


I agree! Sadly I have no more influence at Nissan than anyone here.

I've already posted why Nismo/Nissan say they won't do a trans cooler and Japanese companies are loathe to say they are ever wrong about anything.

The reality is though, that Nissan are NOT going to void anyone's warranty just for fitting a cooler (or any other part). They would have to prove that it was the part that caused any failure, not the other way round, and there is no way that this part could cause any failure.

People really need to understand what a warranty is, and some dealers need to stop waving the word around like a voodoo charm to try to keep all the money.


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## CSL (Jan 18, 2007)

mickv said:


> Nice sentiments Henry - if only life were so simple. If NISMO can't get their cooler into HPCs months after everyone thought it was being introduced, I can't see Nissan approving an external supplier's competing product quickly, if at all. I'd have thought that if anyone was to take this forward though, it should be the recently appointed GTROC reps (no disrespect to David of course).
> Cheers
> Mick


I have already sent the GTROC a request to help this morning.

I moved away from GTRs several years ago and went the Porsche GT2 & GT3 route(they were excellent BTW) but now Nissan has produced this gorgeous monster of a car and for £60k BUT it has a really stupid problem which spoils my enjoyment of my car..... £2000 for a Forge kit will cure this problem, I want it done but also want my warranty.

H.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

David.Yu said:


> I agree! Sadly I have no more influence at Nissan than anyone here.
> 
> I've already posted why Nismo/Nissan say they won't do a trans cooler and Japanese companies are loathe to say they are ever wrong about anything.
> 
> ...


David, I would agree the kit should not void the warranty and so long as the oil level is correctly set and there are no leaks then the kit would not cause a failure, the worse case would be no cooling if the pump failed to run ... but if a pipe came loose and the oil was pumped out and the tranny failed then that would be reason for a W rejection.

So like you say, Nissan would have to prove it caused the issue, but it is a definite grey area, but there is no way that Nissan will endorse a kit not made by them or Nismo IMHO.


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

:thumbsup: Nice one Henry. I absolutely agree with what you are saying - you'd have hoped Nissan would have picked up on the constant comments about cooling from owners that track their cars but they don't seem worried. Even absent a proper cooler, they could at least have worked on the trans fluid and tackled it that way - allowing higher temp limits with better oil. Surely that's a cheap way to resolve most of the problem. I'm not even a track addict, but it still winds me up!


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

I agree, it is mainly the fluid that is to blame. 120c is NOT a high temperature for a good quality synthetic.

Don't forget hardly any other car even has a gearbox oil temp gauge/sensor and clearly simply don't need one because it doesn't matter what temps it gets up to, no harm is done.


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## ForgeMotorsport (Jul 26, 2010)

Perra said:


> The oil line connectors on the cooler seems to be very low. Are they touching the diffuser so you need to modify it?
> 
> And another question, Alex. Did you remove or replace the washer bottle from your car or did you need to modify it in any way since it´s in the airflows path behind the cooler unless removed.
> 
> /P


The upper side of the lower diffuser has to be cut out for clearance. Its not visible underneath (the diffuser is double skinned) and has no effect on strength. Its the only way to fit a 25 row core under the bottom of the crash bar.
Alex runs our intercooler that replaces the washer bottle, but it fits with the stock washer bottle too. Doesn't seem to affect the performance of the oil cooler at all though. All our testing has been done with either a stock or Forge washer bottle present.

Thanks


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

What sort of temperature can the Pentosin withstand before breaking down in a similar fashion to the oem stuff at 130 ?


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Chris956 said:


> What sort of temperature can the Pentosin withstand before breaking down in a similar fashion to the oem stuff at 130 ?


From my experience and oil analysis done on samples taken it breaks down after 120 degrees the same as OEM but not at such a fast rate. The main concern for me using FFL-4 as with the OEM oil is that it's viscosity goes to crap at the elevated temps and will therefore not protect the gears and clutches as well as a heavier oil.

If you can get the max running temp under 115 then the FFL-4 performs quite nicely and that should be doable with the Forge cooling kit.

Edit: I did ask Pentosin about the max rated temp and they side stepped the question on 3 occations, with to a degree valid anwsers, I can let you have those if you like Chris via email.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

The Pentosin does not break down as early as the OEM oil,and even if it would,changing costs 100€....so who cares:wavey:


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

The reason I asked was over on Nagtroc a guy had a gearbox failure that Nissan refused to help with so he sorted it himself. He posted a picture of the oem tranny oil and it looked like black treacle and that was only 9k road miles , no track work...... eek


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

This was the picture


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Chris956 said:


> The reason I asked was over on Nagtroc a guy had a gearbox failure that Nissan refused to help with so he sorted it himself. He posted a picture of the oem tranny oil and it looked like black treacle and that was only 9k road miles , no track work...... eek


Yep, the OEM oil IMHO is a bag of dodo, mine was pretty sha**ed after 4k miles and was swapped out for FFL-4 at that point. The blackness of the oil comes about from it being burnt and/or clutch material being deposited in it, either way it is not pretty. 

I am constantly amazed that this crud is sold for £60 per litre when FFL-4 can be had for a sixth of that cost! Like Alex said, it is dirt cheap (comparatively) to replace with the labour most HPCs change costing more than a fill of FFL-4 would, one of the reasons I change my own oil.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Chris956 said:


> This was the picture


Good grief! That looks like engine oil!

If that is tranny oil then it has defo been over 120 degrees on numerous occations, I have never seen one that bad before, got a thread link?


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

A simple transmission flush and a stuck gearbox is fixed

A very special thanks to randy and NickTO - NAGTROC - The Nissan GT-R Owners Club


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Chris956 said:


> This was the picture


That's unbelievable when you think that it starts life as clear green fluid.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

I changed my Pentosin last week,looked like new and had done 12000 kilometers or so,has been over 140 degrees a few times and over 120degrees most of its hard life....only a very very light brown shade,like it is to expect:clap:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

To be fair though, you can't accurately tell the viscosity and protection of a fluid purely by its appearance, nor can you necessarily detect microscopic metal debris with the naked eye! 

My car is in for service with Middlehurst at the moment and they are taking a sample of the transmission oil for me so that it can be analysed.
It will be interesting to see how the expensive Willall fluid has stood up to 10,000miles of reasonably hard use including going over 130c at least a couple of times. (Never 140 though).


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Chris956 said:


> A simple transmission flush and a stuck gearbox is fixed
> 
> A very special thanks to randy and NickTO - NAGTROC - The Nissan GT-R Owners Club


Oh yeah, I remember that thread now  put it down to a senior moment!


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> To be fair though, you can't accurately tell the viscosity and protection of a fluid purely by its appearance, nor can you necessarily detect microscopic metal debris with the naked eye!


Call me old fashioned BUT that gloop in that bucket is not going to lubricate much at all and as for the viscosity ---- LOOK AT THE PICTURE


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## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

CSL said:


> I have already sent the GTROC a request to help this morning.
> 
> I moved away from GTRs several years ago and went the Porsche GT2 & GT3 route(they were excellent BTW) but now Nissan has produced this gorgeous monster of a car and for £60k BUT it has a really stupid problem which spoils my enjoyment of my car..... £2000 for a Forge kit will cure this problem, I want it done but also want my warranty.
> 
> H.




Why would/should the GTROC help you?

You aren't even a member. If you want their help, then join their club. :thumbsup:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Chris956 said:


> Call me old fashioned BUT that gloop in that bucket is not going to lubricate much at all and as for the viscosity ---- LOOK AT THE PICTURE


I wasn't talking about the pic in that link, I was referring to Alex's statement that his oil looked ok.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

David.Yu said:


> I wasn't talking about the pic in that link, I was referring to Alex's statement that his oil looked ok.



You cant see the condition of the oil,thats true,but it looked far too good too 
be burnt!


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