# GT-R Top Ten Suck List



## Swiss Frank (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm pretty well-known for my old E39 M5 Top Ten Suck List and also just started an F430 Spider Suck List. You could say I'm just a glass-is-half-empty kind of guy.

The purpose of this thread isn't to hurt anyone's feelings or insult the engineers and businessmen who brought this car into the world, or to say, I'm so much cleverer than the original engineers. But to be blunt, its not a perfect car. Its not for everyone. And with the waiting list situation, you'll be buying the thing before ever seeing it in person and you deserve to know what you're getting into.

I also hope that other readers can post things I've overlooked or take me task if I'm being too harsh or especially if my personal example isn't representitive of the breed.

*Sound*

If you google for "Nissan," "GT-R," and "vacuum cleaner" you will find possibly 100+ hits in the automotive press. I read these too and read them wrongly. The _tone _of the engine is certainly bland, in common with Porsche turbos, Bugattis, and the like. Heck, it may even have the tone of a vacuum cleaner. But that's not the bad part.

The bad part is that it has the _melody _of a vacuum cleaner, at least around-town. In a manual car (all I've ever owned until now) the engine pitch is tied to the road speed exactly, unless you have the clutch in in which case it is tied to your right foot exactly. If you double your speed, you double the RPM, and the pitch goes up by exactly one octave. In the case of the GT-R, as you shuffle between 0-30kph in stop-and-go traffic, the car is constantly hunting between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, and going through very long stretches where it starts slipping the clutch as you crawl along, giving more or less throttle to the engine, causing the pitch to just wander up in no obvious reaction to your driving. It sounds like the janitorial staff cleaning the carpet at the other end of the office.

Example 1: stop on a deserted road with maybe a slight uphill. Take your foot off the brake and the pitch goes up like 250 RPM, as the transmission just starts to let out the clutch to make the car "creap" like a classic torque-converter. If the roads the least bit uphill though you don't creap. You instead are staying put but the engine melody is being controlled by the brake!

Example 2: as you drift down from 10kmh to 0, the engine pitch drops, until, to avoid slipping the engine, the transmission starts slipping its clutch. The engine gets more throttle to keep from dying, so the pitch starts going back up. Then you're fully stopped with the foot on the brake and the pitch drops again as the clutch is fully disconnected.

The engine volume seems noiser than I'm used to at idle, but doesn't pick up much more presence as you accelerate.

That covers noise from up front, but you also have noise from the transmission under the back seat. First there is just some typical high-performance transmission rattling even (or especially) when you're stopped, as my Supra used to do. I'm not sure if this is a tradeoff in a sportier transmission with higher limits, or due to a lack of sound insulation. Second, you hear chunking when the thing shifts, and with its tight ratios this is constantly. Third, its disconcerting these two sound sources come from a place different than the engine (which is probably the same ina 599 F1, but different say to a BMW SMG, or a 430 F1 etc.). If I had to sum it up, it sounds like a kid in the trunk with a toolbox with a couple tools and maybe a couple big ball bearings that roll around in the box a bit. The kid spends alot of time searching around the toolbox by feel, trying to locate something...

*Transmission*

Let's set aside the noise. When you're in automatic mode, it actually takes a couple seconds to get its attention when you want to get its attention by half-flooring it. That's a couple seconds as in "one mississippi two mississippi". My instictive reaction (after a couple weeks) is to give it yet more throttle just as it finally assumes the first dose of throttle was intentional. So: give it some throttle, no reaction give it some more just as the first bit of boot comes on-line, then it downshits yet again for the second booting.

The gear ratios are extremely tight, which is good, except that it makes manual shifting just about pointless in normal driving. Drive mellow away from a stoplight, up to just 40kph or 60kph, and you simply can't take your fingers off the paddle. You'll shift 4-5 times in what, 8-10 seconds or so? I can shift my M5 smoother than I can manual-shift the GT-R. I'm trying to work on this technique, release the throttle just slightly, pull the paddle, and start feeding the throttle in again about a half-second later just as the computer actually executes the shift.

Another problem is that the throttle pedal is just a video-game controller, another input to the computer, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the position of the throttle that actually controls the car's intake. Take this scenario: you're driving with 20% throttle depression. You manual-shift down two gears. The computer beautifully matches revs. Now your engine is revving as high as it would with 80% pedal depression but your foot hasn't moved. Now, were you to move the pedal down to the 80% point, basically nothing happens because the throttle is already there. On the other hand, if you then back up to 10% depressed, the computer backs up from 80% throttle to 10% open throttle. So, a slight foot movement suddenly causes a severe engine braking effect. (In some cases it unwinds the throttle only slightly, like from 80% to 60%, as you back off the throttle from 20% to 0% depressed, but then slams the throttle closed as soon as you give the brake the lightest feather.)

Ok, auto-mode pretty good; manual potentially unusable. Easy decision to leave it in auto then. But this is really boring. You just sit there, point the car, make it go faster or slower. The only way to demonstrate your skill to anyone or even yourself: know when to hit the R swtich and don't run into things.

Lest that all seem too negative, let me just mention that the transmission works _perfectly_ when you put your boot in and leave it. Watching the Nurburgring video I'd say the guy could have done the lap in automatic. The transmission also isn't a pain to parallel park on slopes.

*Ride*

Its alot more firmly sprung than my mid-90's Supra or my E39 M5's. Maybe I'm old and fat, scratch that, I _am _ old and fat, but just beware its pretty severe. High frequencies are filtered out, so the car doesn't go "chunk" as much as "thunk." I hear UK cars may be differently-sprung.

More suprising, though, is the "comfort" mode on the shocks doesn't help. In fact it hurts. Driving over the expansion joints on Tokyo's elevated highways actually gets a bit of a rocking-horse feeling going. So here the warning is that I haven't found a single road or scenario where the "comfort" mode helps at all.

I think two factors in the bad ride are the 20" wheels and the run-flats. I'd actually like to "minus 1" the wheel/tire package if the calipers allow, and pick some better wheel design.

*Seats*

I really like the look of the stock seats in Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) GT-Rs. However they're designed for someone about six inches narrower in the shoulder than me. It seems like my back is supported by my shoulder blades resting on the back's side bolsters. Its actually not too uncomfortable for 4-5 hour drives. But its just wrong. Seats this bolstered really should be adjustable.

The seats are power-adjustable in 4 axes, and the controls are straightforward, but extremely hard to reach. I have to wonder, did Mercedes actually patent the concept of visible seat controls?

*Keyless Entry*

Not specific to Nissan or the GT-R, this is just the stupidest gadget. I take it out of my pocket, press unlock button, repocket, then press the start button after entering. That's four actions, compared to three with a normal key. And you're denied the visual confirmation that car's startable or not. Better living through technology! (?)

*Meagre Feature Set*

Given the all-singing all-dancing Sat Nav (which works great BTW) integrated with all the performance displays, the idiot-tech Keyless Entry, a very nice dual-zone air system, and a built-in TV, how come so many features present in comperable cars of a decade ago are missing? Note that I wouldn't expect any of these on an Ariel or Caterham (which are absolutely light-weight over everything else), a Mustang (which can be a quarter the price), or an F430 (whose sole raiso d'etre is pure driving). But this is a practically two-tonne, USD89K car, that already has made huge bows away from purity. So I don't see an excuse not to add maybe another 5 kilograms and USD1-2k to make the following standard, or even optional:


Rain Sensor (I left my windshield wipers on my M5 on auto for 8 years and counting; never have to touch the control rain or shine)

Parking Sensors (or reversing TV camera)

Have side mirrors tilt to show ground while reversing. (Of course you can tilt them manually, if you remember to tilt back up once you hit the road again. But its a pain to do and dangerous to forget. More importantly they don't tell you where your front wheels are... and my off-side front has already met the curb when I thought I was absolutely totally safe. Pet peeve: why can't the tire edge rubber come up an extra half cm to protect against this? Isn't there something harder than curbs you could make rims out of?)

Footmats--I've never had to buy footmats before, this is insulting. Even more so when they're USD800/GBP400 for good fit ones.

Sunglasses holder and interior lights and switches belong in a car 1/4 the price

where do you put your park card? Where do you put your loose change (if you don't have an ETC card yet?) (the built-in ETC is slick though.)

auto-dimming mirrors were high-tech ten years ago, but should now be required in a car this expensive. Its not like they're any heavier!

the car has like two-dozen sensors that can be displayed on the dash; why not air pressure in the four tires?
*Packaging*

The rear seats are huge but no footroom or headroom whatsoever. If someone actually can drive one city block four-up I'd like to see a picture of it. Lets track a record: report to this thread the longest drive you manage with three people in the car none of whom is in a baby seat.

This is a problem as, in such a huge heavy car, you'd actually like them to take some weight and space out. The car would actually be a strictly better car with 911-sized seats back there.

Actually one thing that really upsets me is the the sloped roof is an example of styling being a pure tradeoff for poorer packaging. Yes, its distinctive, but couldn't they have figured out any other way to be distinctive without sacrificing that headroom?

The lack of sunroof, or four big windows, or even two normal-sized windows, means that even with the windows down you don't get that wind in your hair.

In many ways, this is an car for engineers who like cars--the transmission is fascinating before you even get in and drive, and is, I think, perfect during high acceleration. And yet its simply not clear why a two-seat car with a 3.8 litre engine needs to weigh a couple sumo wrestlers more than, say, a 7-litre Corvette. Actually it _is _clear: the GT-R uses the Nissan FM chassis, which underpins a half-dozen different models designed to be much bigger, much cheaper, and not 4WD. So I suspect this chassis isn't made out the highest-strength, most expensive steels (much less aluminum, or even magnesium as in the Z06's engine cradle). Part of the GT-R heritage is being the working-class boy who spends his days in the gym and nights in the library. While they (stupidly) dropped the Skyline name and design cues, the heritage requires the size, passenger-car DNA, and price point that come with the FM chassis.

*Steering*

There have been 3-4 complaints of people tracing recent wrist pains to just having taking ownership of aa GT-R. Add me to the list and I think I know why. The steering wheel is attractive and good to touch, but slick and hard. I'm guessing I have to hold on twice as hard as on my M5, and I think thats the stress. Easy workaround is to get an aftermarket wrapper, thanks, just the mini-cab look I was aiming for in my new car. The wheel has useful gubbins too, so I don't want to ditch it for an aftermarket wheel. And after the floormats I couldn't afford one anyway.

One thing that works fairly well is the manually-adjustable rake and reach. In my M5 I play around with the power controls a bit on the highway for a change of feel, but on the GT-R you absolutely shouldn't adjust these while moving.

*4WD*

The hardest thing to complain about is the downside of the cars strongest ability. The 4WD works seemlessly and apparently perfectly. On street driving it never understeers. But there is no oversteer whatsoever. Your throttle pedal controls speed and nothing else. Imagine a movie of you turning left from a stopsign. The throttle simply controls the speed of that movie. The worst that happens is that the line might get a little ragged as the car detects some oversteer and dials it out.


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## Swiss Frank (Apr 29, 2008)

Under 4WD, I meant to mention: don't imagine a GT-R can be driven like this: YouTube - ferrari f430 drift


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## thb_da_one (Nov 30, 2007)

> _"4WD
> 
> The hardest thing to complain about is the downside of the cars strongest ability. The 4WD works seemlessly and apparently perfectly. On street driving it never understeers. But there is no oversteer whatsoever. Your throttle pedal controls speed and nothing else. Imagine a movie of you turning left from a stopsign. The throttle simply controls the speed of that movie. The worst that happens is that the line might get a little ragged as the car detects some oversteer and dials it out."_


You're wrong here. Anyways, this isn't the only place where you're wrong I just didn't bother reading the whole thing.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Why so you take the key out of your pocket? Just go close to the car and pull on the handle!


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## Sock (Dec 16, 2007)

I've got Keyless entry on my 3 series and my clio 197. Personally it should be a standard on all cars IMO. Why press the button, like above just walk uptio it and pull the handle . You're not using it right! 

Didn't read the rest as its a sunny day and ive been drinking.


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## deric (Feb 11, 2008)

Sock said:


> I've got Keyless entry on my 3 series and my clio 197. Personally it should be a standard on all cars IMO. Why press the button, like above just walk uptio it and pull the handle . You're not using it right!
> 
> Didn't read the rest as its a sunny day and ive been drinking.


For R35, you must press black button beside the handle to unlock door and press black button again when u want to lock door. It's very easy.


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## mg1942 (Apr 28, 2008)

I heard that a Japanese tuner (I don't know the name of the tuner company) already came up with a new coilover system that completely replaces the Blisteins. I heard the new coilovers are suppose to address the harshness of the Blisteins, but the problem is that they are taking something away that's optimized for the Nurburgring... I think the Bilsteins are one of the reasons why the GT-R achieved N-lap of 7:38 in partial wet track and 7:29 in dry.


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## mg1942 (Apr 28, 2008)

Looks like the GT-R needs lot of things to improve.

A perfect quote from the Chief Engineer Mizuno...

"The GT-R is my son... a son grows up and it's my duty as father to keep improving it."


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

overall your review is great save for obvious German-bias in there and some sort of unrealistic expectations. You're very thorough and real-world about it (mostly, but...).

To add, I don't think these points are that important really and may be a bit overly critical:

_* Rain Sensor (I left my windshield wipers on my M5 on auto for 8 years and counting; never have to touch the control rain or shine)

* Parking Sensors (or reversing TV camera)

* Have side mirrors tilt to show ground while reversing. (Of course you can tilt them manually, if you remember to tilt back up once you hit the road again. But its a pain to do and dangerous to forget. More importantly they don't tell you where your front wheels are... and my off-side front has already met the curb when I thought I was absolutely totally safe. Pet peeve: why can't the tire edge rubber come up an extra half cm to protect against this? Isn't there something harder than curbs you could make rims out of?)_

and these points are getting way far afield and a bit ridiculous:

_"Actually one thing that really upsets me is the the sloped roof is an example of styling being a pure tradeoff for poorer packaging. Yes, its distinctive, but couldn't they have figured out any other way to be distinctive without sacrificing that headroom?

The lack of sunroof, or four big windows, or even two normal-sized windows, means that even with the windows down you don't get that wind in your hair."_


sounds like you want a BMW M5 or 911 Cab? or Infiniti GT-R luxo package? a 4-door car maybe? with a sunroof?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you're serious? 

??? 

This car isn't for you. 

GT-Rs are not luxury cars and never were. This isn't any different in that ethos, but has more features than any prior iteration. No car is perfect or offers everything for everyone. That shouldn't be the goal. Most people are not even going to buy this car as it is cult car, a toy for all purposes, beyond most people's ability to afford. 

I couldn't care any less about the slope of the roofline robbing headroom. Most sports cars are designed largely for the driver and the driver only... and for aesthetics.


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

btw, it does display the tyre pressure for all 4 tyres on the computer panel. press information button, then tyre pressure.

the DSG gearbox is not for everyone's liking. i love it. 

only question is how much are you selling your gt-r for?


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## doggiehowser (Oct 8, 2007)

Must be a different driving style. My gearbox never hunts except for maybe < 5% of the time when I am on part/off throttle moving off from traffic jams. 

If I am in manual mode, it doesn't exist.

My friend's M3 SMG has far more annoying problems to the point that they no longer use Auto mode.

But I do think that auto-dimming and auto tilt when reversing are definitely nice to have, as is the ability to "close the side mirrors" or wind up windows from remote. Even my Japanese kei car has the last two.


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## timechaser (Feb 18, 2008)

doggiehowser said:


> But I do think that auto-dimming and auto tilt when reversing are definitely nice to have, as is the ability to "close the side mirrors" or wind up windows from remote. Even my Japanese kei car has the last two.


Wait a short while - given that the the car HAS auto folding mirrors - it would merely be a matter of wiring up the switch to the locking system - automatically folding them in when you lock the car. Simple as that.

Have had it done in a couple of earlier cars which had precisely the same issue. Once I get a fix (and I intend to ... this is of course AFTER I get my car)... will publish a document 

As for the rest of the comments. Kinda agree with bonzelite about the ethos of the car, but SwissFrank already said this is his list - and we dont have to agree with it.

I think there are areas where it couldve been improved. BUT the underlying emphasis was power and putting it to the ground. They gave in a lot to luxury - guess not enough for some


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## LordeRyall (Mar 5, 2008)

Excellent post Swiss Frank. It is very refreshing to see a thorough and intentionally harsh/realistic review. The great thing is that these are real world observations from a real world owner and I am awaiting eagerly the responses of existing owners to the points made.

All we generally hear about (and quite rightly) is the good things to look out for so now I can keep an eye out for the 'not so good' things when I take delivery next month. 

Thanks for the post and much appreciated.


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## LordeRyall (Mar 5, 2008)

Swiss Frank said:


> Another problem is that the throttle pedal is just a video-game controller, another input to the computer, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the position of the throttle that actually controls the car's intake. Take this scenario: you're driving with 20% throttle depression. You manual-shift down two gears. The computer beautifully matches revs. Now your engine is revving as high as it would with 80% pedal depression but your foot hasn't moved. Now, were you to move the pedal down to the 80% point, basically nothing happens because the throttle is already there. On the other hand, if you then back up to 10% depressed, the computer backs up from 80% throttle to 10% open throttle. So, a slight foot movement suddenly causes a severe engine braking effect. (In some cases it unwinds the throttle only slightly, like from 80% to 60%, as you back off the throttle from 20% to 0% depressed, but then slams the throttle closed as soon as you give the brake the lightest feather.).


This concerns me. 

The most important thing about any sports car needs to be the feedback of it (both steering and throttle control). I need to be in control during all situations and this quirk appears to be a bad trait. 

To all other existing owners: Is this as dramatic as implied above? Do you find it problematic at all?


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

LordeRyall said:


> This concerns me.
> 
> The most important thing about any sports car needs to be the feedback of it (both steering and throttle control). I need to be in control during all situations and this quirk appears to be a bad trait.
> 
> To all other existing owners: Is this as dramatic as implied above? Do you find it problematic at all?


i've had zero problems and i've driven my 35 about as hard and as soft as you possibly can. 

i think the interesting thing about posts like this is every driver is different. every driver thinks they're a good driver. every driver likes things their own way. a car designed for a certain segment will disappoint those that it was not targetted for.

i take reviews with a pinch of salt. if you are in the least concerned about the car, do what it takes to have a drive in one. if you're spending GBP60k and are worried, then spend GBP1k going to Japan and having a test drive.


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## wizard39 (Mar 4, 2008)

Very well written. Although most of what you said may be true, but I think it affect different people differently. I have been very happy with my car so far, including a lot of points you have mentioned. However, I have just 1 complain about my car.

When in manual, moving between 1st and 2nd is fairly erratic. When stationary, I can upshift from 1st to 2nd without issue. But when car is moving but <10km/h, it is not impossible to upshift to 2. Taping on the paddle just cause the number 1 on the dashboard to blink. Could it be a problem with my car. Hope those who own a GTR can commend.


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## MacGTR (Dec 31, 2006)

hmm, only understeer, I totally agree


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## KingAbarth (Mar 22, 2008)

tokyogtr said:


> i've had zero problems and i've driven my 35 about as hard and as soft as you possibly can.
> 
> i think the interesting thing about posts like this is every driver is different. every driver thinks they're a good driver. every driver likes things their own way. a car designed for a certain segment will disappoint those that it was not targetted for.
> 
> i take reviews with a pinch of salt. if you are in the least concerned about the car, do what it takes to have a drive in one. if you're spending GBP60k and are worried, then spend GBP1k going to Japan and having a test drive.


You mean you can just walk to a nissan showroom and have a test drive???

Which showroom? im in Tokyo in End May..


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## timechaser (Feb 18, 2008)

Between Apple Store and Apple Building. This is the mini Nissan showroom. Once there, you can ask the receptionist for a simplified map to walk to the Nissan HQ showroom. Not sure if still can book test drive. But there was a 2 week waitlist when I was there in Feb. You need an International Licence tho (get from AA) in addition to yr local driver's licence. Also got 2 different International Licence. Not sure if our AA one is applicable.


Nissan

Nissan has two showrooms in Ginza, namely, the Headquarters Gallery and Ginza Gallery. Vehicles displayed in the galleries usually change every two weeks to one month with a few exceptions.
A test-drive is available in the Headquarters Gallery on Saturday and Sunday (reservations required, free). Visitors can try six different cars including new models and take a 30-minutes drive around Ginza. Those who have an international driver's license that is valid in Japan can enjoy this experience. However, in some cases even if visitors have an international driver's license, they may not be able to take a test-drive, depending on the country where the license was issued. A thick catalogue much like a glossy photo book is free for visitors and some foreigners take it back with them as a souvenir.



Headquarters Gallery
6-17-1 Ginza, Chuo-ku, Tokyo
tel: 03-5565-2389
Open: 8.30am-8pm (Mon-Fri), 10am-8pm (Sat), 10am-5.30pm (Sun)


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

wizard39 said:


> Very well written. Although most of what you said may be true, but I think it affect different people differently. I have been very happy with my car so far, including a lot of points you have mentioned. However, I have just 1 complain about my car.
> 
> When in manual, moving between 1st and 2nd is fairly erratic. When stationary, I can upshift from 1st to 2nd without issue. But when car is moving but <10km/h, it is not impossible to upshift to 2. Taping on the paddle just cause the number 1 on the dashboard to blink. Could it be a problem with my car. Hope those who own a GTR can commend.


perfectly normal.


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## KingAbarth (Mar 22, 2008)

timechaser said:


> Between Apple Store and Apple Building. This is the mini Nissan showroom. Once there, you can ask the receptionist for a simplified map to walk to the Nissan HQ showroom. Not sure if still can book test drive. But there was a 2 week waitlist when I was there in Feb. You need an International Licence tho (get from AA) in addition to yr local driver's licence. Also got 2 different International Licence. Not sure if our AA one is applicable.
> 
> 
> Nissan
> ...


I should have just taken the offer when a PI offered me the keys to the GTR...


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## MichaelJP59 (Jan 9, 2008)

tokyogtr said:


> perfectly normal.


Why is it normal - I used to get the same thing with my Audi TT 3.2 DSG and it was annoying then; you only want to use 1st to set off most of the time in city driving and need to change up as soon as possible. Is it a limitation of twin-clutch gearboxes in general perhaps?

Another one perhaps a user could answer. My TT DSG had another annoying habit in auto of occasionally changing down from 2nd to 1st when it didn't need to, say at an angled junction where you were still rolling. This had the effect of a lurch/surge forward as the same throttle opening led to more acceleration with the lower gear... does the GT-R do that?


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

MichaelJP59 said:


> Why is it normal - I used to get the same thing with my Audi TT 3.2 DSG and it was annoying then; you only want to use 1st to set off most of the time in city driving and need to change up as soon as possible. Is it a limitation of twin-clutch gearboxes in general perhaps?
> 
> Another one perhaps a user could answer. My TT DSG had another annoying habit in auto of occasionally changing down from 2nd to 1st when it didn't need to, say at an angled junction where you were still rolling. This had the effect of a lurch/surge forward as the same throttle opening led to more acceleration with the lower gear... does the GT-R do that?


my mechanic told me it was to do with potential dmage to the clutch by riding it excessively whilst in 2nd at very low speed. whereas starting off in 2nd does something different. i can only trust what he tells me. i only drive the car in manual so not sure what happens in auto mode.

i've not had the dsg switch from 2nd to 1st at all except for when stopped.


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## Swiss Frank (Apr 29, 2008)

bonzelite said:


> sounds like you want a BMW M5 or 911 Cab? or Infiniti GT-R luxo package? a 4-door car maybe? with a sunroof?!
> This car isn't for you.
> 
> GT-Rs are not luxury cars and never were. This isn't any different in that ethos, but has more features than any prior iteration.
> ...


Hey Bonze,

Sorry, I guess I wasn't too clear. I'm not critiquing the car's practicality. Rather I'm critiquing its focus.

I don't care for the Z06 interior or exterior styling, but I really admire its focus. It doesn't pretend to have rear seats that are impossible to use. Instead it says, OK, can we come in under 3300 pounds? Yes we can!

I like cars with single-minded focus, whether its on performance-through-weight (Caterham, Atom, Elise), price-point (V8 mustangs), Tech Ueber Alles (R8), emotion on wheels (F430). Instead the R35 is feature-light because, why? To save weight? Nope. To save money? It ain't working (mine was about USD89k by the time I got it home). Mechanical purity? Not with the remote key and playstation on the dash.

So, these missing features, that would be pluses on a light car or cheap car or even, say, a Luddite Viper or TVR, instead just don't make sense.

To me its like owning A through J of an Encyclopedia. Its fine as far as it goes. Just leaves a nagging sense of incompleteness.


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## MichaelJP59 (Jan 9, 2008)

tokyogtr said:


> my mechanic told me it was to do with potential dmage to the clutch by riding it excessively whilst in 2nd at very low speed. whereas starting off in 2nd does something different. i can only trust what he tells me. i only drive the car in manual so not sure what happens in auto mode.


You can understand that safety lock for cases when it's absurd to change into 2nd. I guess I'll judge it when I drive the car - gearboxes can spoil driving experience though; I had an M3 SMG and that was the most frustrating gearbox I've ever used, and totally put me off the latest M5.


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

MichaelJP59 said:


> You can understand that safety lock for cases when it's absurd to change into 2nd. I guess I'll judge it when I drive the car - gearboxes can spoil driving experience though; I had an M3 SMG and that was the most frustrating gearbox I've ever used, and totally put me off the latest M5.


My E46 M3 had ann awesome gearbox, best of any car I have had, I could drive it loads quicker and changed gear much more than I would if it had been a manual version.

That said some people did not like the bang you used to get from full throttle up shifts and as I understand the GT-R is seemless and bang free - this for me is a shame but a bonus for others.

Each to their own

Kp


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Swiss Frank said:


> Hey Bonze,
> 
> Sorry, I guess I wasn't too clear. I'm not critiquing the car's practicality. Rather I'm critiquing its focus.
> 
> ...


Ok I see what you mean, well said. 


I've only sat in the GT-R at events, not driven. Personally I don't require much of any creature comforts and prefer a pared-down ensemble. GT-Rs have never been heavy on the amenities or rear seat usage, not ever. 

My biggest qualm is the weight. I don't fathom quite why Nissan chose to bloat the weight out. 

The saving grace will be the V Spec as it will have the absolute focus you mention. 

In the base model, Nissan is compromising it's focus to accomodate "anyone, anywhere, anytime" in one package. 

When anyone does this all-encompassing idea, a dilution of focus will inevitably happen. 

Out of all you've said, the biggest thing (and funniest described) is the sound of the engine/exhaust note; ie, that being of a "vacuum cleaner." 

this is hilarious:

"causing the pitch to just wander up in no obvious reaction to your driving. It sounds like the janitorial staff cleaning the carpet at the other end of the office."

not only hilarious but actually very disappointing! What often finally "makes it" for me in a sports cars' case is how it sounds. The sweet thunder of a sports car at full throttle is simply one of the best things to ever hear. 

I think Ferrari is about the best sound I've ever heard for a sports car; nearly same for Corvette. They're different sounds, but they fill out the ensemble nicely. 

The wrong or inappropriate sound of a sports car rings rather dissonant. I think the R35's sound isn't necessarily bad, but it's very uninspiring. It's too utilitarian. And again, no doubt, engineered for "anyone, anytime, anywhere." The "average" buyer doesn't want a loud or invasive note. Too bad.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Ferrari is the grand master of sports car sound:

FerrariGTCountdown


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## Phoenix (Apr 10, 2008)

haha. good post. it seems your a bit sensitive to the ride of high-performance vehicles..... unfortunately/fortunately, it is tuned to the track.

I am interested to see how the change in transaxle and engine bushings might effect the ride in the US-Spec GT-R, and the _slightly _firmer springer rates

and I _expect _the Euro-version is softer to meet the needs of drivers on typical B roads 

luckily I don't drive a lot of highway with joints and I seldom see actual potholes in Phoenix or anywhere in the area.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

I'd assume the ride will be harsh no matter what they do. If the subsequent factory settings will reflect what they did to garner the 7:29 lap, expect the ride to just harshen. 

Complaints of the soft mode being almost as harsh as the R mode may beget Nissan to make the settings more distinct (?) 

From what others have been saying, there is virtually no difference between any of the settings.


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## doggiehowser (Oct 8, 2007)

Actually the exhaust note does improve a little after abt 3000 rpm after running in. Seems slightly freer flow after my track day. Or you can switch to an ECU remap and the aftermarket exhaust systems to really bring it up a notch. FWIW, I don't think the V6 turbocharged will have the same aural experience as an NA V8 rumble

I think there's an American car program that sums it up pretty nicely and to paraphrase: there's track cars that try to pretend to be road cars, and there's road going sports cars that try to be track cars but the GTR is a great track car that also happens to be pretty usable on the road.

As long as you can accept and comprehend this, you should be OK. But if you are expecting a whole long list of M5-esque amenities and comfort, the GTR isn't really for you.

As the father of GTR says: bring it to the track, at least once.


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## wizard39 (Mar 4, 2008)

MichaelJP59 said:


> Why is it normal - I used to get the same thing with my Audi TT 3.2 DSG and it was annoying then; you only want to use 1st to set off most of the time in city driving and need to change up as soon as possible. Is it a limitation of twin-clutch gearboxes in general perhaps?
> 
> Another one perhaps a user could answer. My TT DSG had another annoying habit in auto of occasionally changing down from 2nd to 1st when it didn't need to, say at an angled junction where you were still rolling. This had the effect of a lurch/surge forward as the same throttle opening led to more acceleration with the lower gear... does the GT-R do that?


Yes. It happen to my gtr exactly as you have described. Probably an inherent problem with DSG.


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

wizard39 said:


> Yes. It happen to my gtr exactly as you have described. Probably an inherent problem with DSG.


have you checked what software version you have for the gearbox? did it get the recall fix?


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## StretchGSK (Oct 24, 2006)

Very nice post Swiss Frank.

I think you will find a lot of people do not want to hear anything negative about the R35. 
Some of your issues dont worry me at all, but the gearbox and the back seats are ones I could not live with. 
Why not just make it a 2 seater? 
The gearbox is the main reason I would never trade my R34 for the R35!
They make perfect sence if you are racing and therfore flatout 100% time.
But a good manual can be such a joy, even if it is just how it changes as it warms up or the fact you are controlling everything, including pulling away slowly from the light etc.

But as always each to his own and it would be boring if we all liked the exact same thing.


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## Swiss Frank (Apr 29, 2008)

People seem to be summarizing my post as, "Frank wants a more comfortable car" but half my complaints are actually that the car isn't raw and viceral enough. And while the V-spec will be even faster, its still not going to be a convertible, a manual, better sounding, or RWD.

TokyoGTR is right that you can get used to anything and I'm much happier with the GT-R now than two weeks ago, but I'm taking concrete steps to replace it. Most likely is a F430 Spider, though I'm also going to try an Elise, Caterham, and Atom. (And in any case keep the M5


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

Swiss Frank said:


> People seem to be summarizing my post as, "Frank wants a more comfortable car" but half my complaints are actually that the car isn't raw and viceral enough. And while the V-spec will be even faster, its still not going to be a convertible, a manual, better sounding, or RWD.
> 
> TokyoGTR is right that you can get used to anything and I'm much happier with the GT-R now than two weeks ago, but I'm taking concrete steps to replace it. Most likely is a F430 Spider, though I'm also going to try an Elise, Caterham, and Atom. (And in any case keep the M5


my outrageously fast exige S is with autodirect.jp if you're interested. they bought it off me. you won't get much more raw than that. oh, and the roof comes off too


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Yes I may get flamed for not being cool and "with it" enough.... but... why anyone would seriously want an Ariel Atom is beyond me. You complain about the lack of "amenities" in the R35 but would consider an Atom? Catherham? You're serious? Why not get a KART? That's about as visceral as it gets. 


You sound like someone who is so hard to please as to be impossible. Were you a customer and had that view I'd show you the door and regale in the loss of your business.


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## Phoenix (Apr 10, 2008)

Swiss Frank said:


> Hey Bonze,
> 
> Sorry, I guess I wasn't too clear. I'm not critiquing the car's practicality. Rather I'm critiquing its focus.
> 
> ...


I see the disclaimers of: (1) I have posted this before with other vehicles, and (2) can we talk about a real-world driving 'point-of-view', but I really prefer a more balanced perspective (positive and negative). Many of the points seem mysteriously petty and lack a clear perspective of the purpose behind this vehicle. Read Mizuno and understand. Please. No offense intended.


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## Phoenix (Apr 10, 2008)

Swiss Frank said:


> Hey Bonze,
> 
> Sorry, I guess I wasn't too clear. I'm not critiquing the car's practicality. Rather I'm critiquing its focus.
> 
> ...


Don't read A (American) or G (German), finish J (Japanese) and the answers about the focus will come. hahaha. j/k.:thumbsup:


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

actually, I've heard several Japanese owners say things similar to what Swiss Frank is saying. So it could be that the hype surrounding the car is giving rise to expectations that can't be met, or won't be met.

If anything, prospective buyers of the R35 should read Swiss Frank's original post with the expectation that this is the WORST the car can be and be prepared to deal with these issues. Most likely, I would think R35 buyers would have varying viewpoints, some liking the car more than others, but my guess is that for most, the car will actually be much better.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

I must be confused then as to why one fully aware of an Exige, Ariel Atom, go kart.... et al... searching for such experiences.....would even consider remotely a GT-R? Not only that but go all the way and buy a GT-R.... wanting something with a _*sunroof,*_ dimming mirrors and a wet bar ---but with the rawness of an Ariel Atom?

I must not have read his posts very clearly because I'm entirely confused. My apologies.


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## maximum6 (Jan 19, 2008)

Swiss Frank said:


> Hey Bonze,
> 
> Sorry, I guess I wasn't too clear. I'm not critiquing the car's practicality. Rather I'm critiquing its focus.
> 
> ...



I always thought cars that have 4 seats should really have 4 doors.


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## Godspd (Dec 12, 2001)

bonzelite said:


> I must be confused then as to why one fully aware of an Exige, Ariel Atom, go kart.... et al... searching for such experiences.....would even consider remotely a GT-R? Not only that but go all the way and buy a GT-R.... wanting something with a _*sunroof,*_ dimming mirrors and a wet bar ---but with the rawness of an Ariel Atom?
> 
> I must not have read his posts very clearly because I'm entirely confused. My apologies.


I have to agree with you there bonzelite...I am confused too..

I understand your point of view that it does not have focus like some of the other cars you have pointed out..but the R35 GTR's "intent" is to be a "multi"-faceted super car. As such it tries to spread it's abilities in all areas. In that respect I guess it's lack of focus is it's focus by being a all rounder, which it has achieved with flying colours.


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## paulc (Mar 5, 2008)

Then it would be called a saloon. 
Coupes are never going to be practical - they put style and looks above practicality. 
I wonder how many more or less people would buy if it was a two seater - some people are getting hung up about the rear seats but I for one wouldn't have even considered if it was a two seater (I do have the odd school run to consider)- it appeals to a completely different group then.


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

paulc said:


> Then it would be called a saloon.
> Coupes are never going to be practical - they put style and looks above practicality.
> I wonder how many more or less people would buy if it was a two seater - some people are getting hung up about the rear seats but I for one wouldn't have even considered if it was a two seater (I do have the odd school run to consider)- it appeals to a completely different group then.


agree 100%. i would have stuck with the exige if i wanted a 2 seater.


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## MichaelJP59 (Jan 9, 2008)

kpkpkp said:


> My E46 M3 had ann awesome gearbox, best of any car I have had, I could drive it loads quicker and changed gear much more than I would if it had been a manual version.
> 
> That said some people did not like the bang you used to get from full throttle up shifts and as I understand the GT-R is seemless and bang free - this for me is a shame but a bonus for others.
> 
> ...


Not to turn this into a BMW thread, but I had no complaints about the E46 M3 gearbox on the track, and full throttle shifts were great. However, if I wanted a track car I'd get a Radical SR8. Part-throttle/city driving was useless. My brother also had one in San Francisco and it was a nightmare on the hilly junctions.

Hopefully the GT-R box will be OK as DSG is miles better for all-round use than any of the SMG-type incarnations, where a conventional gearbox/clutch driveline is retro-fitted with electro-mechanical actuators.


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## Phoenix (Apr 10, 2008)

bonzelite said:


> I must be confused then as to why one fully aware of an Exige, Ariel Atom, go kart.... et al... searching for such experiences.....would even consider remotely a GT-R? Not only that but go all the way and buy a GT-R.... wanting something with a _*sunroof,*_ dimming mirrors and a wet bar ---but with the rawness of an Ariel Atom?
> 
> I must not have read his posts very clearly because I'm entirely confused. My apologies.


hahahahaha.:thumbsup: 

I don't think you are confused, just astute.

I am really not trying to be negative on Swissfranc. I am sure the car is too bumpy, doesn't have certain amenities, and is not entirely intuitive in its gear search under some conditions. This car is undoubtedly not right for some persons.

Its just hard to avoid the contradictions as stated between some philosophy points and details observed in real driving. It just seems weird to me. Something is not right, I just can't put my finger on it.


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## Richbe (Mar 14, 2008)

For me this car will be far more focused than my current M5, nonetheless I would still expect rain sensing wipers in a car of this price along with PDC. You get these features on budget nissans, so what happened with the R35?

I agree with Frank on the sound of the car too, my V8 is a reason to drive the car alone, the R35 hasn't got a V8 I know, but to at least make the engine sound in some way match the performance looks and handling can't be that difficult?

I am happy with the compromise with the rear seats, the ride, the gear shift not being ever so perfect, etc, it just seems like the obvious things on a £55k sports car are missing when so many things, quality, looks, performance are there. Almost as if they just forgot when they were speccing the car, and for what little it would cost to make the difference I'm surprised.


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## Phoenix (Apr 10, 2008)

Honestly, I think a lot of the USD$70,000 was spent on the other stuff, rather than the auto-tilting mirrors, rain-sensing wipers, etc., etc. The car is relatively inexpensive for the performance numbers that it delivers; the other appointments will just push it up over USD$100,000. Being that this is the 1st year of the R35, I can see additions and modification made to the model over the next couple years; especially considering the 'continuous quality improvement' construct being pushed by Mizuno. First and foremost, this car was intended to be *tracked*. That's why some drivers are noting the qualities stated above in terms of ride quality and engine/transmission points . Remember what Mizuno has stated, "take the car to the track at least once".

flame suit on:flame:


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## Phoenix (Apr 10, 2008)

and where the *hell *is 'Swiss Franc' anyways.

I thought this was supposed to be engaging dialogue?:thumbsup:


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

base price for the top GT-R in Japan is Yen9.3m. Base price for most basic M5 with no options is Yen13.7m. That's a US$30k difference. I think Nissan have been very sensible. They focused the R&D on the transmission, engine and handling. They put a bit of leather and stuff in there to make sure it didn't seem too Nissan and a porker owner wouldn't be put off when he got in it.

also, carlos ghosn himself commissioned this car after driving his porker turbo for a few years. he didn't seem to mind not having tilt-mirrors etc and he's a CEO of a large company.

I think it can be too easy to pick on the GT-R without remembering how cheap it was in the first place COMPARED to every other car it's being COMPARED to. forget what a US$90k car should have. You think a Pagani Zonda has tilting rear view mirrors? Man, those Pagani owners must be fuming...

I do find it hard to swallow that people can slag off a car that is so incredible yet so cheap vs the cars it actually destroys. And I think even frank would agree that now he's driven the car for a few weeks he's not too bothered about the other "missing" items.


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## StretchGSK (Oct 24, 2006)

I find it starnge that everyone is fixated on his comments about the rain sensor and the tilt mirror, neither of which would stop a person buying the car.
However the comments about the gearbox and the exhaust not most certainly are reasons for me not to want one.

Phoenix I must agree, where is Swiss Franc.
Be good to get an update after another couple of weeks with the car


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

StretchGSK said:


> However the comments about the gearbox and the exhaust not most certainly are reasons for me not to want one


the gearbox is just a matter of getting used to it. btw, whatever cons there are with the gearbox being noisy and jerky from 1st to 2nd, it's more than made up by how fantastic it is all other times. 

the exhaust note can be tuned depending on how much you want to spend on it. mine sounds better now i've changed the exhaust. 

seriously, don't let one review make you question the car. spend the money to go somewhere to try the car yourself.


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## StretchGSK (Oct 24, 2006)

tokyogtr said:


> the gearbox is just a matter of getting used to it. btw, whatever cons there are with the gearbox being noisy and jerky from 1st to 2nd, it's more than made up by how fantastic it is all other times.
> 
> the exhaust note can be tuned depending on how much you want to spend on it. mine sounds better now i've changed the exhaust.
> 
> seriously, don't let one review make you question the car. spend the money to go somewhere to try the car yourself.


Dont get me wrong, it is a great car I am sure, just not what I am after in a dream car.
Anyway I have only had my R34 for about 6 months so still very much in that honeymoon faze


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## Godspd (Dec 12, 2001)

tokyogtr said:


> the gearbox is just a matter of getting used to it. btw, whatever cons there are with the gearbox being noisy and jerky from 1st to 2nd, it's more than made up by how fantastic it is all other times.
> 
> the exhaust note can be tuned depending on how much you want to spend on it. mine sounds better now i've changed the exhaust.
> 
> seriously, don't let one review make you question the car. spend the money to go somewhere to try the car yourself.


I agree people should test drive the car themselves to pass on judgement.


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## Godspd (Dec 12, 2001)

MacGTR said:


> hmm, only understeer, I totally agree


I second that...

YouTube - umaibo- GT-R　②


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## wizard39 (Mar 4, 2008)

As an encouragement to those who are considering buying the GTR.

From my personal experience, GTR is such great fun to drive that you will never think about all this deficiencies till you come to a forum like this. I used to drive a BMW 730, it has every gadget and conveniences in the world- tilting mirror, automatic boot, suction doors, rain sensors, light sensors, great suspension, super quiet and extremely comfortable. But as long as the GTR is with me, I will not drive the BMW-my wife drive it now.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

SwissFrank...sounds like you should take a look at the new Ferrari California, probably a better car to satisfy your needs.


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## Beer Baron (Jul 4, 2006)

DCD said:


> SwissFrank...sounds like you should take a look at the new Ferrari California, probably a better car to satisfy your needs.


It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up. 


lol, sorry couldn't help it!


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## Swiss Frank (Apr 29, 2008)

*Suck...*

TokyoGTR sez:

> I do find it hard to swallow that people can slag off a car that is so incredible yet so cheap vs the cars it actually destroys

It rules performance per dollar for sure. I don't think it rules fun per dollar or (for those who are less dollar-limited than time-on-earth-limited) fun per hour. I bought the car because I thought performance = enjoyment and I learned to my suprise that for myself at least it doesn't.



> the exhaust note can be tuned depending on how much you want to spend on it

Resonance and volume can be tuned. The basic sound can't, and the louder the exhaust is the less you can hear the other characterful noises of a happy engine. It can't be cured of 1) lack of exciting ancillary noise, 2) turbos, 3) basic tone defined by V-6.



Bonzelite sez:

> You complain about the lack of "amenities" in the R35

No, complaining about the lack of "focus." I simply don't understand a beautifully stitched leather instrument binnacle covering in a car that can't reverse into a typical Japanese parking spot safely with peace of mind.



> I must be confused then as to why one fully aware of an Exige, Ariel Atom ... would even consider remotely a GT-R

Life is a learning experience. Never having driven an auto, or a car with gunslits for windows, or a 4WD, I didn't even KNOW that I liked manuals, RWD, and the sky in my hair. Live and learn.

(And in point of fact I worship those cars but I don't think I can own something so specialized. I'm mopre holding them up as examples of cars with a consistent focus in their spec.)



Phoenix sez:

> I really prefer a more balanced perspective

I'd guess almost every thread on this forum is weighted on the praise side. This thread is to list up all problems. I'd like a potential buyer to read this entire thread, then say, none of that bothers me, where do I sign? Or perhaps decide not to place that order and leave another car in the import allotment for someone who will enjoy it more!



> (the money) was spent on the other stuff, rather than the auto-tilting mirrors, rain-sensing wipers, etc

I'm not complaining they should be standard. Most of these features are huge profit cows and alot of buyers would go for them. Meanwhile, you DON'T have to make leather dash standard--I've never chosen leather dash as an option before and I wouldn't have this time either.



AkasakaR33 sez:

> read Swiss Frank's original post with the expectation that this is the WORST the car can be

Exactly my intention. Thanks for putting it into words.



StretchGSK sez:

> find it starnge that everyone is fixated on his comments about the rain sensor and the tilt mirror ... However the comments about the gearbox and the exhaust not most certainly are reasons for me not to want one

This I'm also confused about. No-one seems to be defending the boringly competent handling or inability to enjoy the weather while stuck in traffic or saying boring engine notes actually help you concentrate on apexes. I wish I could rewrite the post but leave the inconsistent luxury package as a side bar.



Wizard39 sez:

> From my personal experience, GTR is such great fun to drive that you will never think about all this deficiencies ... BMW ... has every gadget and conveniences in the world- tilting mirror, automatic boot, suction doors, rain sensors, light sensors, great suspension, super quiet and extremely comfortable ... But as long as the GTR is with me, I will not drive the BMW-my wife drive it now

Wizard, are you glad you have that remote door key? Leather-covered dash? 8-way power seat? If they were options would you have bought them, or would you have preferred a car more focused on performance? Do you enjoy being totally seperated from the airstream or would you like bigger windows or a sunroof or targa top? Are you happy that you no longer have to shift? Do you think its more fun turning a curve at 50MPH with all four tires on the ground instead of at 48MPH with the rear of the car out?



DCD sez:

> sounds like you should take a look at the new Ferrari California

1) from what I heard manual may not be an option, 2) as long as I'm moving to my first exotic I thought I'd try a mid-engine 430. 3) it looks a little too cute for me in pictures. 4) I'm not really happy thinking about the tradeoff between premium and waiting-list. Only reason I could look at a 430 was a fluke cancellation.


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## Phoenix (Apr 10, 2008)

You should watch the Estoril GT-R video.

And go to a track at least once before you trade-in to see what the car was designed to do.


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## skyline69_uk (Jan 6, 2005)

Phoenix said:


> You should watch the Estoril GT-R video.
> 
> And go to a track at least once before you trade-in to see what the car was designed to do.


Swiss: In all honesty the car if it is anything like other past GT-Rs to drive it will require a difference driving style if you want it to get lairy.

It requires a difference style and some VERY large jangly bits to grab it by the neck and go berserk with it - then it will drift and perform like it should but it's ability and grip is so high that it probably can only be experienced on the track. In this respect you would probably have more fun in kart or a kit car on a wet roundabout but then again neither would be any good at Tesco or getting to work in the mornings.

It is also TOTALLY focused on what it was meant to achieve and from the outset it was stated - "Anytime, Anywhere, Anyone". I think it has achieved this in Aces but much like the NSX "the usable supercar" it will not suit everyone especially whose who can afford more than one major league car in the garage. It's purpose was to be the "ONLY" car you needed not just another one in the collection.


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## supraman (Mar 25, 2008)

Swiss Frank, I know I'm a bit slow to respond to this thread, but I had a lot to say and didn't have the time to say it before now.

First of all I'd like to say that I really appreciated this thread and completely disagree with the people that criticised you for it. I thought you made your intentions very clear at the start of your post and you delivered a very incisive, informed and well-written commentary on your personal ownership experience. As you've said, you were offering a downside-only view of the GT-R to balance the almost entirely positive view being provided by this forum and the media. By combining both views, I think we will all have a better idea of what owning an R35 is really like.

I particularly liked your insight into the way the throttle works during manual downshifts. I've read 100s of articles about the GT-R and no review that I've read has ever covered the transmission in this level of detail.

You received a lot of criticism for your comments about parking sensors, reversing cameras, etc and I agree with people who stated that these things are relatively unimportant when you consider that we're getting a supercar for a bargain price. However, I believe that you agree with that too. Nevertheless, I understand that once you've found a feature on a car that you find useful, it can be disproportionally irritating when your next car doesn't have it, regardless of how good the rest of the car is. You're not saying that the car is terrible as a result, just that you moarn the loss of that feature. However, I would totally disagree that the car has a "Meagre Feature Set" - it is absolutely loaded with kit, especially the (European?) Premium/Black Editions, which, amongst many other luxuries, have *automatic headlights, rain-sensing windscreen wipers and auto-dimming rearview mirrors, all of which are described as lacking on this thread*. Other than a rear-windscreen wiper (my personal peeve that I'm over now), parking sensors/reversing cameras, downward tilting mirrors and adaptive cruise control I can't even name another luxury item that the car doesn't have. However, I've never owned a BMW so my experience is limited!  By the way, don't flame me - I'm not saying that I want any of these items (other than the wiper) - I'm just trying to think of something that is missing from a truly unbelievable standard equipment list.

Personally, I'm the kind of person that allows something's bad points to spoil the good points, especially when that something is close to perfection. The best analogy I can think of is when I go to see a film that has only ever had rave reviews, my expectation levels are so high that I am invariably disappointed by the first viewing. When I revist the film later, usually with my negative first impressions still in my mind, I usually enjoy the film much more. Consequently I think this thread will greatly improve the GT-R purchasing and ownership experience for me because I now know exactly what to expect in advance.

With regards to the "focus" topic, I'm a member of a car club (http://www.cccedinburgh.co.uk), which gives me the opportunity to drive a diverse collection of "classic" cars (Classic Car Club/Fantasy Garage Car Stable) from a stately Bentley to a raw Elise. I get something different from each of these cars, but with most of them there is also a downside. For example, I love the handling of the Elise, but the engine sound is too unpleasant for a long commute. I love the V8 roar in the TVR, but I prefer my feet to be dry when it rains! I love the luxury of the Mercedes AMG C36, but driving round corners is not enjoyable. I enjoy the attention I get in the De Lorean, but it's no performance car. And so on. Although I really enjoy the time I spend with each of these cars, I am always 
relieved to get back to my Supra - it just does all the things that are really important to me so well. I don't want a focused car. I want a car that does everything well. I guess that is the point - everybody has their own list of priorities and each person's perfect car is the one that most closely matches that list. For me, I believe that car is the GT-R. 

And finally, I have a few questions:


Did I read elsewhere that you don't have the top-of-the-range model? Wouldn't you have some of the kit that you mention if you'd bought a higher spec?
Have you revised your opinion of the keyless entry system as a result of the replies to this thread?
Did you work out how to display the tyre pressure?
Are you getting used to the personality of the transmission yet?
How intrusive is the engine noise at idle? At speed? What's the road noise like?
Are you still getting wrist pain?
Is your exhaust note starting to improve as doggiehowser experienced?
Did you ever establish if you got the gearbox fix/software update?
Wasn't a parking camera available as a dealer-fit option? It seems to be in some regions.

That was my 200th post so I hope everybody enjoyed it! :clap:


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## supracat (Feb 12, 2008)

:clap: - congrats supraman!!! - 200 and counting!

some excellent points in there, and i just have to agree with you about the supra - such a good car that does everything so well - dont want this forum to become the supra fan club but it is certainly worth a very worthy mention in dispatches.

I too welcome all and any feedback on GTR, good or bad - it has been so insightful to hear from swissfrank and tokyogtr - both you guys are over a year ahead of us and i'd like to think that most, if not all, european purchasers on this forum will gain great benefit from your experiences.
there is so much to say abotu swissfranks' experience and all i can say at the momenbt (and i'm not often short for words) is 'keep the faith' mate.......


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## Swiss Frank (Apr 29, 2008)

*BEWARE WHAT YOU ASK FOR...*

You just might get it 

I got the JDM "premium edition" which here is the same as the JDM regular edition, but additionally has (nothing more than) Thatcham, dark-grey wheels, and a Bose stereo that I never use because 1) as annoying as the car sounds are, its also wierdly intriguing, like picking at a scab or something 2) the Bose sounds like crap compared to my home system which features a 50 quid region-free DVD player as the CD source so this is a pretty telling insult.

All the Euro "luxuries" you mention are lacking on the JDM models at any price. Actually for me, I consider "luxury" something that improves either 1) the look but not the function (eg leather dash), or 2) eases the STATIC use of the car (eg when it isn't moving) such as power seats. The stuff I want on the car, which includes alot of what you listed, increases the chance you operate the car safely, which for me isn't a luxury.

In recent rain I've missed a rear wiper but I guess I'll live.

I'm not a luxury-hound. As an engineer I actually appreciate the simplest solutions. My M5's parking sensors seem perfect; only reason I'd have a camera is if its was as good but cheaper 

I agree of course as to the Supra. Once I realized I missed open-top motoring, manual shift, a cultured engine note, and the smell of burning rubber, I though VERY seriously about cancelling the F430 order and just gettng another Supra. Of course the F430 will do all that too but I feel silly spending the big bucks when I'd probably be just as happy with another Supra (at least once the novelty factor wore off).



In answer to questions:

-- I want more "dynamic safety" kit but less "silly luxury" kit.

-- keyless entry, now that I know how to use it (thanks to this thread) is, I believe, once you start habitually using it as intended, no worse than the key to my 1973 Pinto was. So yes, my opinion has improved but I'd still rather have a physical key.

-- I actually looked, and don't see tyre pressure on the monitor anywhere. I'm not sure its really there though happy to be corrected.

-- as long as I have room to keep the car floored I love the transmission! And TokyoGTR taught me to love it on the highway (keep it in manual, 4th or 5th). And around town lightly it also works fine in auto (don't understand why TokyoGTR uses manual in town). But in SLOW traffic in town, stop and go stuff, I want to slit my wrists.

-- wrist pain gone

-- I got an update at the 1000km checkup; it "seems" better but don't know specifically why as I can still hear or make it do all the annoying things I described at will

-- no, only option in Japan for a premium car is the side curtain airbag.



BTW your car club sounds like a great decision. I meant to do the same while I was in London.


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