# bosch 044 and 1000cc injectors at stock fuel press



## jabran200 (Sep 5, 2005)

Hi guys,

I've been reading through the posts about bosch 044 pumps etc and got a little confused about the lph rating at different fuel pressures.

Is it talking about the fuel pressure at the regulator? 

I need to upgrade my injectors as the 600cc nismo ones are maxing out at 1.2 bar on r34 N1's at 7,500 RPM (90% duty cycle).

I am getting RC 1000cc I probbly won't run them at more than 60-70% hopefully will be able to run 1.4bar. I am going to fit the bosch in tank.

What do you guys think will I be fine at stock fuel pressure with 1000cc injectors? (fuel pumps confuse me lol)

Thanks, A quick yes or no will be fine lol.


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## arnout (Oct 29, 2003)

I wouldn't risk it and take two fuel pumps


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## jabran200 (Sep 5, 2005)

As in stock one and the bosch 044 in line? Or two in tank?


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## arnout (Oct 29, 2003)

two feeding the rail one you can switch on at boost


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

044's are buff. We ran a single supply on the World Challenge car . 450 hp at the engine at 1.1 bar on N1 turbos. The 044 are fine in a single setup to more 500 whp. Don't add extra complexity unless you have to. 

1000 cc injectors gives you a ton of headroom. 

You can actually up the pressure with an 044 as they continue to flow well with higher pressures

Remember as RPM goes up, time to inject decreases, this is why you are at 90% on your 660 injectors. 

My injector upgrade path for an RB goes stock - 720/800 - 1000 cc . I dont do 500's or 600's . They are too small for most setups.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

exactly why I chose 044s. Japanese pumps don't run over 5 bars, I wish someone told me that, would have saved me a grand in blown pumps. I have the chart somewhere, but IIRC the 044 can push at least 6 bars before dropping flow and relief valve kicks in after 7 bars. The 044 was designed for the K-Jetronic fuel injection system which ran higher rail pressures.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Good page on fuel pumps and flows - Stealth 316 - Fuel Pump Upgrade Guide


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## jabran200 (Sep 5, 2005)

tyndago said:


> Good page on fuel pumps and flows - Stealth 316 - Fuel Pump Upgrade Guide


Nice one explained a lot.:thumbsup:


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

jabran200 said:


> Nice one explained a lot.:thumbsup:


just note that the "best flowing" pump, the Apexi, stops flowing at 75psi (5 bars). I missed that little detail and kept wondering why I kept breaking those $500 pumps while pushing them at 6~6.5 bars.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

My whole fuel system is a tomei intank pump and RC 1000cc injectors. Stock rail and reg.

Never had a problem.


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## tokes (Jul 16, 2006)

How much power are you pushing?

I'm debating if I should get a regulator or not. Walbro 255 HP in tank with 750cc bosch injectors, on GT2860R-5's. I'd be happy with 450 WHP.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Well proven 600+ mate for 2 years. I was on an walbro but it died. The car ran fine but as soon as it got on boost there wasnt enought pressure and the car would missfire.

I was on 700cc's but i was maxing them out in a big way. Car was making 500 hubs at 1.4 bar with 87% duty. As soon as the boost went up and i adjusted the map the injectors where maxed out. I could of put a uprated reg on it to get more out of the 700's but got a good deal on the 1000cc's


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

RC 1000cc injectors are top notch. I would advise them, particularly concerning the price, for any build with upgraded turbos, even running 500bhp. They are fast and efficient, and somehow, I have gained 50% fuel efficiency. With my engine tuned with Sard 700cc, I got 200km per tank, 220km max. Now I'm getting 350km with no remap except recalibrating lag and setting the size.


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## jabran200 (Sep 5, 2005)

Sounds good. 

I'll report back what if I get an increase or not.


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## tokes (Jul 16, 2006)

Madden said:


> Well proven 600+ mate for 2 years. I was on an walbro but it died. The car ran fine but as soon as it got on boost there wasnt enought pressure and the car would missfire.
> 
> I was on 700cc's but i was maxing them out in a big way. Car was making 500 hubs at 1.4 bar with 87% duty. As soon as the boost went up and i adjusted the map the injectors where maxed out. I could of put a uprated reg on it to get more out of the 700's but got a good deal on the 1000cc's


Sounds good to me! 500 WHP at 1.4 bar, what are you running for cams/headwork?


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

It was fully stock head mate  hks t04r.


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## 4DRFTS (Oct 30, 2007)

fuel pressure should be the same at the reg as it is at the pump. if its not, your fuel lines are too small. 

RC injectors are repackaged Delphi or Roschester injectors depending on the type of injector. thats not a bad thing, but you pay ALOT more for RC when you can get them straight from Delphi. the only advantage in RC come with a flow sheet.

Also, the 044 isnt an intank pump, its an inline. i guess it can be run intank. My opinion is to run a surge tank. buy a high flow/low pressure pump to fill the tank (these type of pump are really cheap) then run 1 (or 2) 044 from the tank to the fuel rail. also i would recommend modding the fuel rail to make it twin entry with an aftermarket reg. My 2c


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## tokes (Jul 16, 2006)

Madden said:


> It was fully stock head mate  hks t04r.


Thanks for the info/help! :thumbsup:


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

The problem with a dual feed, and a surge tank is that you add extra complexity and failure points to a system carrying a flammable material. Every extra connection is one more place to leak. Every extra fuse and wire is somewhere else to chafe or short. 

A single 044 will do 500 hp. Also you can run an 044 intank. They are fine. I only want to run double if I have to. If I need a fuel system to do 600-700-800 hp then I will run double, as there isn't a good halfway reliable single pump that will do it. 

Jeffs R32 has a more complex fuel system than I wanted, but it easily gives us a ton of headroom for the power we are running. Twin 044 in the tank. -8 into a modified stock rail with a Nismo fuel pressure regulator mounted to it. This setup, based on duty cycle, and current hp levels would be plenty for 800 hp with headroom.


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## brtl (Nov 21, 2008)

not going to open new thread, so forgive me bumping on this one... 

Im going single HX40 on my RB26 with 260cams and 800 sards.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140369274753&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT



> THIS IS THE ALL NEW CUSTOM MADE DA-27 305 LPH FUEL PUMP WITH BUILT IN STRAINER, 0-9 BAR OPERATION PRESSURE, 8.6 BAR SAFTEY SHUTOFF and Standard 12-14 Volt Operation.
> 
> The DA-27 is custom made high specification Fast Road/Racing 305 LPH fuel pump compatible with a wide variety of high performance car makes and models and will provide enough fuelling over 650 BHP on Turbo/Supercharged Applications and 800 BHP on Normally Aspirated. These pumps are being used all over the world. They use a 15mm fuel hose for inlet and Banjo Fitting on the outlet just like the BOSCH 044 Fuel pump. All fittings with the BOSCH 044 fuel pump are compatible with the DA-27.
> 
> The outer casing is similar to a BOSCH 044 fuel pump, its much bigger and more powerful than the Walbro 255 there is simply no comparison. The graph below shows the performance of our fuel pumps. They have undergone aftermarket testing to verify that they are as good as we say they are! We have customers who have being running the original DA-27 fuel pumps for over 5 years with no failures!


just wondering if this will be enough as second pump inline with stock R34 pump in tank ?


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## arnout (Oct 29, 2003)

Good idea to buy knockoff chinese immitation stuff on ebay for your expensive R34 GTR car.


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## brtl (Nov 21, 2008)

good untill i found out its fake walbro (after quick research on the net)
thanks for your answer anyway :thumbsup:

something more in the matter using bosch 044 inline pump as second to stock one ?
just another bad idea ?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Put the 044 in the tank and you are done to about 500 hp.


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## brtl (Nov 21, 2008)

so there is no solutions between using single or twin in tank 044's ?
using two of them is quite expensive, thats why im looking for some compromise at 550/600hp


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

brtl said:


> so there is no solutions between using single or twin in tank 044's ?
> using two of them is quite expensive, thats why im looking for some compromise for 550/600hp


Nothing that works. I have been working on these cars 10 years now.

I am based in the US, and I have tried nearly every different type and brand of pump. SX, Walbro, Nismo, HKS, Denso, Bosch, Barry Grant , Aeromotive, etc, etc ,etc. I have had nearly every single pump fail, including the Bosch, but overall the Bosch life vs the life of the rest puts the Bosch at the top of the list. 

The last serious car I put together was twin 044's in the tank. Other than that a twin Apex, or twin Nismo in the tank will do 900-1000 hp. The fuel pumps are a lot less expensive than the engine. 

If you are making big, big power then its Weldon, but you can't live with the sound on a street car.


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## brtl (Nov 21, 2008)

many thanks for exhaustive and fast answer for my silly questions :thumbsup:


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

tyndago said:


> twin 044's in the tank. Other than that a twin Apex, or twin Nismo in the tank will do 900-1000 hp


great post mate, answered my fueling Qs in a nutshell....:thumbsup:


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

godzirra said:


> great post mate, answered my fueling Qs in a nutshell....:thumbsup:


It seems pretty silly that they are still the only real option, but I just have not found anything that worked.

I am pretty involved with the aftermarket here in the US, and I have a ton of friends that drag race and road race cars, and everyone I talk to I ask about fuel pumps. Nothing good except the old 044's. 

The stock pumps are good. The Nismo/Apex/Tomei are good. The only problem is about 600 hp you run out of pump. 

Great page on fuel pumps - http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm


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## Chris Wilson (Aug 20, 2001)

ATL used to be one of the few places to get the sock and fitting to make an 044 in tank, but now even Demon Tweaks list them in their catalogue as they sell ATL (race car bladder tank and refuelling stuff manufacturers) parts. So running one in tank is simple. I would be very reluctant to run ANY big HP engine on a none Bosch 044 pump, or a genuine Bosch Motorsport FPR. I too have had disappointing to disastrous results with most everything else. In fact most stuff in fancy anodised colours and heavily marketed is junk 

How much advertising do you see from the Bosch Motorsport division? Probably none unless you buy something like Racecar Engineering... Yet nearly every high end race car is dripping with their products.


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## brtl (Nov 21, 2008)

any details on Bosch 040 (0 580 254 040) ?


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## Chris Wilson (Aug 20, 2001)

brtl said:


> any details on Bosch 040 (0 580 254 040) ?


http://www.boschfuelpumps.com/



Bosch 040 Fuel Pump Specs:
Bosch Part Number: 0 580 254 040
Minimum Current: 12 Volts
Operating Pressure: 94 PSI (6.5 Bar)
Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)
Fuel Pump Location: In Tank
High Temperature Reduction: 8 GPH (30 LPH)
Weight: 930 Grams (2.05 Pounds)

Fuel Pump Connections:
Inlet: Open Base
Outlet: M10 x 1.0
Electrical: Positive M6 / Negative M5


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## brtl (Nov 21, 2008)

the only difference that these are in tank pumps with the same flow as 044 ?


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## Chris Wilson (Aug 20, 2001)

I think the 044 will flow more at the higher pressures. I have no experience with in tank Bosch pumps, save on road cars, I only use the 044 ones for pretty much everything that needs an electric pump. Bosch themselves will tell you, or search a bit more on Bosch and the part number, try and find a listing from Bosch themselves. That was the first link in Google... Best Bosch "normal" pump is the B 261 205 413 which is an 044 specially selected and individually tested.

Here you are:

http://www.lucasinjection.com/_borders/fuelpumps.pdf


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## brtl (Nov 21, 2008)

okay, finally i have two bosch pumps 040 and 044.
as i ask earlier im planning to use 040 in tank and 044 as second pump in line.
hope this will works as it should due to fact these are both 300lph pumps.


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

sorry to bump an old thread...

But at the moment I've got an inline Bosch 044 fed by intank pump. No surge tank.

I'd like to have 2 Bosch 044s INTANK feeding each end of the fuel rail.

Is this difficult to fabricate up? I've found that Powerhouseracing over in the USA sells a top hat for the fuel tank that allows 2 fuel pumps easily... it's also not too expensive...do I go for this to make things easier?

http://powerhouseracing.com/Templates/frmtemplateM7.asp?SubFolderID=96&SearchYN=N

Item PHR Fuel Pump Hat for R32 R33 R34 Skyline	
Item # PHR 02061207	
PHR offers a billet hat that mounts flush where the OEM hat mounts allowing the OEM nut to screw on top with gasket to hold in place. This hat allows you to run 2 pumps with ease in the tank and pushes out of the hat with a -8AN port with a -6AN Vent & Return. One rubber plug to allow wires to go through the hat and be sealed off with no leaking.
MSRP $250.00	
Your Price $225.00


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## brtl (Nov 21, 2008)

not a skyline but it works the same in our cars as well...


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

piece of cake. I have two 044s in tank feeding each end of the fuel rail (a Tomei). I have Aeromotive checkvalves at each end of the fuel rail so that if one pump fails, the car still keeps on going. Just need two lines going in, and one line returning.


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## Chris Wilson (Aug 20, 2001)

The 044's have their own check valves, why did you add two more in the rail?


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Because Toby is paranoid Chris! Fact is most people add a check valve in the line for peace of mind, irrespective of what pump is fitted in a multi-pump environment.

Personally, whilst appreciating Sean's statements on 'simplicity/less to break or fail' I've always believed that putting a decent swirl pot in boot with sight glass/tube, with two (or more) feeder pumps from it to rails was the way to go. We just pop the boot, see if pot is full and know there is enough to fuel a run. We can also easily check if pumps are running and the voltages at terminals.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Chris Wilson said:


> The 044's have their own check valves, why did you add two more in the rail?


because when you're on your fourth engine, you tend to build in a LOT of redundancies! Some may call it paranoia...:runaway:

There is a huge difference between a checkvalve at the end of the rail, and one inside a pump ten feet away. I can yank the fuse from one of the pumps with the car running and the fuel pressure doesn't waver for a second. If I break a pump (I haven't broken a Bosch but I've gone through a LOT of Japanese pumps), I can still drive the car indefinitely on low boost safely; medium boost probably as well. The only problem is if a pump dies, I won't know it (I've been running twin pump setups forever, and trust me, when one died, I knew, because the car would die too!). I'll only know by a drop in fuel pressure at WOT, but my fuel pressure gauge warning is on the A-pillar - I can't miss it 

And the Jap pumps I broke - the pumps still work. It's the CHECKVALVES that broke. I have one of these "broken" pumps in my boot - I epoxied the checkvalve shut, and I use it as a utility pump to fill my tank with toluene from the 20 liter tins it comes in.

Oh, and both my 044s are in the tank. One's strapped to the stock cradle, and the other is piggybacked to it with a custom aluminum bracket...but to be honest, just strapping one to the other would have worked fine as well - IIRC the pumps came in rubber insulation. Should have kept that - it would have dampened that buzzing sound!


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

kismetcapitan said:


> because when you're on your fourth engine, you tend to build in a LOT of redundancies! Some may call it paranoia...:runaway:
> 
> There is a huge difference between a checkvalve at the end of the rail, and one inside a pump ten feet away. I can yank the fuse from one of the pumps with the car running and the fuel pressure doesn't waver for a second. If I break a pump (I haven't broken a Bosch but I've gone through a LOT of Japanese pumps), I can still drive the car indefinitely on low boost safely; medium boost probably as well. The only problem is if a pump dies, I won't know it (I've been running twin pump setups forever, and trust me, when one died, I knew, because the car would die too!). I'll only know by a drop in fuel pressure at WOT, but my fuel pressure gauge warning is on the A-pillar - I can't miss it
> 
> ...


a bit old thread but what lines do you have?

i have installed 2x044 externally -6 each end of the fuel rail and one -6 return to the stock return plastic hat and it seems due to the hat hole being to small i have increased pressure, when i take the fuse of the one 044 i can regulate my tomei type L FPR TO 3 OR 3.5 BARS , when i add both of them the pressure goes to 4+bars and plays 4-5 bars all the time and cannot go lower than that with the fpr, shall i disconnect it from the stock hat and add a bigger hole to the hat??


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## Chris Wilson (Aug 20, 2001)

You really have a HUGE fuel flow now, and most regs and return lines short of -8 or -10 lines with a specialised high flow regulator will show a static line pressure change when you bring in the 2nd pump. Ideally you need an ecu that will read FP and offset the map using it as another axis. Not all / many will do this. The Life Racing will, the new Motecs will, probably some Marellis will, and some EFI Technology ones will. If you just re circulate all the flow from 2 044 pumps your fuel tank fuel temperature will also quickly become alarmingly high. You'll need fuel coolers, which is another can of worms, safety and reliability wise.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

i have taken the one fuse from the relay and i have only one pump working to set 3.5 bars, i will order an xs loom for link ecu and try to add what you mentioned, does anyone know if the link g4 plug in can do this?


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

I've been running two 044s and a 1.5litre swirl pot set up for a couple of years now. The set-up includes filters and additional check valves and the whole lot sits on an an aluminium plate suspended under the boot floor between the boot floor and the Vspec undertray. 

When running an HKS Vpro I had 1000cc injectors and the Vpro brought the second pump in as the car came onto boost. Both pumps fed the rear of the HKS rail through a Y piece and the front outlet returned via an HKS regulator -To be honest I never liked the idea of the Y piece as it didn't seem right to me?

Since switching to a Link ECU the fuel system was looked at again and the car now runs 1200cc injectors and both pumps now run constantly, as it just seems simpler to tune that way. The two pumps feed either end of the rail now with the return from the centre as per most set-ups. 

I also talked Chris Wilson into letting me have the last of his billet tank top hats (thanks Chris) and that was fitted to the car with good quality fittings including an electrical plug and socket in the tank top.

The fuel return goes back to a Y piece with a restrictor in favour of the swirl pot. The inlet to the swirl pot is slightly smaller than the outlet so the swirl pot runs at a slight pressure but some returning fuel bleeds directly back to the tank to help spread the heat into the cooler car fuel tank.

The in-tank pump is a SARD pump.

I think the fact it all resides under the car in the airstream and that some fuel is returned directly to the tank rather than back to the smallish swirl pot helps keep temps down, I don't monitor fuel temps save for a hand on the swirl pot to check when it was first built as we left the undertray off for the first week, but it doesn't seem to get too warm running the two pumps constantly.

I also don't get any fuel smells in the car which you often get with in-boot set-ups.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

blue34 said:


> I've been running two 044s and a 1.5litre swirl pot set up for a couple of years now. The set-up includes filters and additional check valves and the whole lot sits on an an aluminium plate suspended under the boot floor between the boot floor and the Vspec undertray.
> 
> When running an HKS Vpro I had 1000cc injectors and the Vpro brought the second pump in as the car came onto boost. Both pumps fed the rear of the HKS rail through a Y piece and the front outlet returned via an HKS regulator -To be honest I never liked the idea of the Y piece as it didn't seem right to me?
> 
> ...


i have decided that i will break in the car with one pump and then enlarge the return hole on the stock plastic hat by adding an extra pipe for return to the hat, i will keep the -6 line though and see what happens, but i will get an expansion loom and put a fuel pressure sensor and a temperature sensor for the fuel.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

DrGtr said:


> a bit old thread but what lines do you have?
> 
> i have installed 2x044 externally -6 each end of the fuel rail and one -6 return to the stock return plastic hat and it seems due to the hat hole being to small i have increased pressure, when i take the fuse of the one 044 i can regulate my tomei type L FPR TO 3 OR 3.5 BARS , when i add both of them the pressure goes to 4+bars and plays 4-5 bars all the time and cannot go lower than that with the fpr, shall i disconnect it from the stock hat and add a bigger hole to the hat??


I had braided -6AN lines for everything. I ran my Aeromotive FPR at stock fuel pressure, driving 1000cc RC Racing injectors. It was perfect.

Past tense, because the idiot who bought my car took all of three months to crash it and turn it into a fireball...


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

thats a pity, how much bars did the stock fuel pressure was running ?


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