# Why aren't I gelling with my GTR?



## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

I’m in mental turmoil. I’ve now had my brand new GTR for two months, and despite fitting some sexy Advan wheels and fitting a Russ Fellows exhaust, it’s not getting under my skin. Unless I’m going all out at full pelt, it leaves me cold. What I don’t understand is why?? It’s great to look at, great steering and quick turn-in, excellent brakes, fantastic handling, and incredible acceleration – it should tick all the boxes and be the best car that I’ve ever owned, but it’s leaving me unsatisfied like there’s something missing. I’ve heard the word INVOLVEMENT so much in automotive journalism, and believed it to be a fluffy way to describe cars that journos use, but perhaps that is in fact what the car is missing? My previous car which I had for 3 yrs was a 6.2L normally aspirated HSV Clubsport, and despite being a big of a barge, it was still engaging and fun to drive, with loads of character. I sold it because I wanted something more focused, but although I’ve got the focus, I now have a car that doesn’t feel special or engaging unless I’m driving at warp speed.

Do I need to see a doctor? Thoughts?

Mart.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

The GTR at legal speeds is rather boring, not much really happens. Get it onto the track!!


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## jason4656 (Jul 28, 2013)

as per my thread yesterday - http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/210945-gtr-too-fast.html

feel very much the same, you just described it a little better, no you most definitely need a doctor, everyone is allowed their own perspective although people on here may well tell you their opinion on your feelings rather than share their own experience or not of what your describing..typical of forums im afraid.

I agree pretty much if i am honest and nothing more i can say, most people saying get another car, drive it sometimes, take it to the track, get some training in it..those are all the solutions  it definitely puts a big smile on my face, followed by a feeling of OH ****! how fast!


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Tried turning the traction off, it is fun then


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Tried turning the traction off, it is fun then


opcorn:


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

lol


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## Hashlak (May 26, 2013)

I agree completely.. when I first got my GTR almost 5 months ago, I loved the car but despite that it left me quiet unsatisfied :/.. As if something was missing, just didnt feel right.. 

After getting stage 1 I took back all my criticism  it just brought the car to life and added all that character that the stock car lacks


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## Hashlak (May 26, 2013)

I agree completely.. when I first got my GTR almost 5 months ago, I loved the car but despite that it left me quiet unsatisfied :/.. As if something was missing, just didnt feel right.. 

After getting stage 1 I took back all my criticism  it just brought the car to life and added all that character that the stock car lacks


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> lol


Im in for the photos after the OP tries TC "off"


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## Cardiff R33 (Jan 16, 2004)

My friend loves my gtr but has always said, when he can afford to, he will buy a 997 turbo. He just said the GTR is too much of a computer and lacks feel


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Maybe I should change it to

Tried turning the traction off, it is fun then, briefly!


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## jason4656 (Jul 28, 2013)

yeah for about .253 of a second before it goes black and wake up wondering what happend and where am i...


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe I should change it to
> 
> Tried turning the traction off, it is fun then, briefly!


I tried it once (on a below freezing, wet evening) and swore never to do it again! Scared the hell out of the passenger....... and myself!


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Quick poll though how many use "R" mode in the wet?

I went for a run with the MLR Sunday and it was quite wet and even in "R" I couldn't feel the traction unless going downhill and it was quite broadside


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## Hashlak (May 26, 2013)

lol, I used R mode in the wet when I had my dunlops on.. had one the most terrifying experiences in my life!


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## jason4656 (Jul 28, 2013)

also used r mode in damp the other day thats when i had my arse twitching life flashing before me moment came home and kissed my little girl  lol


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## extremelimo (Jul 21, 2013)

*Nissan*

You have to look no further than Lexus Nissan and Honda, all have built fantastic, perfectly safe reliable BORING cars.Its like owning a Harley or a Ducati, its a love affair, the Harleys slow, antiquated but people love them.Ive owned Jap bikes, yes they are perfect, my Ducati and KTM arnt but when I ride them they involve me, no electronics just skill.I bought an Atom thinking Ill use it on the road and a couple track days. 4 miles on the road 10 track days later, now I have a Radical.When I track the Radical it just puts me in another place.The Nissan is Japanese perfect, but give me a cramped Lambo, with no view any day(if I could afford one). When you put it in the garage do you look forward to the next drive.Its a great car,but give me a flawed Italian car any day.


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## [email protected] (Aug 2, 2004)

The more i drive the 35 the more i get what its about, it does everything so well that you find you have to push on way beyond what is legal. My car is currently stock and i have kept it this way while i get a feel for it, once i have done this the plan is to go through the different upgrades so i can compare all levels and give honest informed opinions to my customers. I did go for a spirited drive across the Cat & Fiddle a couple of months ago with the traction in "R" mode and came away very suprised just how involved it got powering out of the tighter corners. The other side of the coin is with traction turned off the car becomes the complete opposite 99% of the time interms of using the power it has on the road.


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> The more i drive the 35 the more i get what its about, it does everything so well that you find you have to push on way beyond what is legal. My car is currently stock and i have kept it this way while i get a feel for it, once i have done this the plan is to go through the different upgrades so i can compare all levels and give honest informed opinions to my customers. I did go for a spirited drive across the Cat & Fiddle a couple of months ago with the traction in "R" mode and came away very suprised just how involved it got powering out of the tighter corners. The other side of the coin is with traction turned off the car becomes the complete opposite 99% of the time interms of using the power it has on the road.


Now I didn't know you had bought one, what spec?


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## OldBob (Oct 18, 2010)

Cardiff R33 said:


> My friend loves my gtr but has always said, when he can afford to, he will buy a 997 turbo. He just said the GTR is too much of a computer and lacks feel


^ has he driven a 911 turbo? Read the latest CAR mag too for a comparo of GTR vs a 991 Turbo...especially their comment on involvement.

The GTR involves plenty when on the right roads / blasting


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## jason4656 (Jul 28, 2013)

There is no doubt the GTR would be majorly involving entertaining drive on the track of any type, where you had wide open spaces, room to move, and time to get through the gears maybe even glance at the speedo once in a while before having a brown trouser moment  no doubt either that its an amazing iconic car, however, peoples personal experience or perspective on stuff is gonna be different! lol were not all robots thank god


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## mallockman (Mar 23, 2012)

Interesting thread! 
I've had my Stage 1 R35 for 18 months now, and can identify with Cavemans dilemma. During my early days I had those same feelings but with a bit more time you discover the cars hidden talents. These days I get my GTR kicks from hillclimbing for which traction control is far too intrusive. So after a weekend's competition in a TC free zone, I'm more than happy to waft home on cruise control! 

Loton Park Hillclimb - Nissan GT-R - 29 Sept 2013 - YouTube


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

OldBob said:


> ^ has he driven a 911 turbo? Read the latest CAR mag too for a comparo of GTR vs a 991 Turbo...especially their comment on involvement.


Interesting article that - read it the other day. Puts a few myths to bed and nice to see a car magazine with its tongue firmly out of Porsche's arsehole.

The old adage that a 911 offers more excitement and a GTR is just a computer on wheels and is dull is such a tired cliche I am convinced that those that utter it have no idea what they are going on about. If driving a GTR at full pelt does not excite you, then you are probably bored whilst having an orgasm as well. If the GTR is too fast that is the fault of the roads you are driving on and the restrictions of being on a public highway. Get it on a track and rag it some.


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## [email protected] (Aug 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Now I didn't know you had bought one, what spec?


11plate BE  i needed something in my life to fill the gap the WR car left 

I hear alot of comments from people about the GTR having no soul or the normal one is the electronics do it all for you...... without the electronics the car wouldn't be half as good as it is  its a fast car and to me thats what its designed to be. Drive any modern super car of the last few years and they are the same as the Nissan interms of driver input, its all about the electronics and clever gear box's. Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo/Audi all suffer in some peoples eyes. Try giving a Westfield a super car engine.... it will be a pig of a car with no driver aids :flame:


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

I bet, you need to tinker though. First thing I did was get the laptop out found loads of little things to be improved


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## goldgtr35 (Aug 15, 2012)

Cardiff R33 said:


> My friend loves my gtr but has always said, when he can afford to, he will buy a 997 turbo. He just said the GTR is too much of a computer and lacks feel


The 997 has just as much trickery as the GTR, I've got both cars and the GTR leaves it standing,,,turn the traction of if you need to be reminded what's under the bonnet,
You can't drive a car normal and be impressed all the time, drive it mental and you will loose your licence, find a happy medium,


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## [email protected] (Aug 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I bet, you need to tinker though. First thing I did was get the laptop out found loads of little things to be improved


I fitted a GTC rear light kit if that counts  to be honest i am having to force myself to keep it stock until i am happy i know my way around it..... that said i have a stock of parts courtesy of [email protected] waiting to be fitted :runaway:


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Get them on, it needs to go faster.


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## digi (Dec 17, 2010)

Caveman said:


> I’m in mental turmoil. I’ve now had my brand new GTR for two months, and despite fitting some sexy Advan wheels and fitting a Russ Fellows exhaust, it’s not getting under my skin. Unless I’m going all out at full pelt, it leaves me cold. What I don’t understand is why?? It’s great to look at, great steering and quick turn-in, excellent brakes, fantastic handling, and incredible acceleration – it should tick all the boxes and be the best car that I’ve ever owned, but it’s leaving me unsatisfied like there’s something missing. I’ve heard the word INVOLVEMENT so much in automotive journalism, and believed it to be a fluffy way to describe cars that journos use, but perhaps that is in fact what the car is missing? My previous car which I had for 3 yrs was a 6.2L normally aspirated HSV Clubsport, and despite being a big of a barge, it was still engaging and fun to drive, with loads of character. I sold it because I wanted something more focused, but although I’ve got the focus, I now have a car that doesn’t feel special or engaging unless I’m driving at warp speed.
> 
> Do I need to see a doctor? Thoughts?
> 
> Mart.


Its abilities are way out there. On the general road I guess you can't even tickle its capabilities. To counter this I have a CSL and had a LP570 superleggera which felt quick whether I'm going 40mph or 140mph. But I have no doubts about the ability of the GTR due to psycho fits I sometimes have on the twisties. :chuckle:

I suites me quite nice as a daily driver but becomes a monster when I need it to. Mrs absolutely loves it due to the ability to destroy the tarmac. :chuckle:

Some people will find this dual personally unacceptable.

P.S. My heart races when I drive the CSL and the Superleggera (even though I'm not going that quick), but when I drive the GT-R its calm like driving a Civic until I get it up to some serious numbers. Hope this helps.


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

I'm a 'only ever use R' guy for tc and 'Off' for a dry day and feeling brave lol.

R allows a lot of slip in the wet/damp and it's certainly fun then :chuckle:

Do agree with above though. In that driving the GT-R slowly is boring. Note to self then. Drive faster :chuckle:


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## isub (Mar 18, 2013)

At legal speeds (well anything below 100mph!!) i guess it does feel a little cumbersome and even normal, but to me that just goes to show what a capable car it is. A regular car with supercar ability. 
I disagree with folks that say the GTR is to much of a computer, the GTR is one of the most driver focused cars available today, any electronic wizardry, should you wish to switch it on, is simply there to allow you to go faster then most peoples talent dares to.
Just because its not a manual and you cant get the arse out every time you touch the throttle people call it sterile. 
Go buy an old mx5 and join a drift club if thats what floats ya boat.


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

OldBob said:


> ^ has he driven a 911 turbo? Read the latest CAR mag too for a comparo of GTR vs a 991 Turbo...especially their comment on involvement.
> 
> The GTR involves plenty when on the right roads / blasting


Agreed, came from a porker turbo myself and its no different really, well apart from a rear weight biased feel. If your mate wants less computer assistance feel then he's best to go for a GT3. The 911 turbo is just such a capable car it feels boring at slow speed as well. 

All that said, I still love both and am in love with how quickly you can make the rear of the GT-R move around in a controllable manner. Takes a few brave pills at first because it's such a barge, but once you've done it a few times it's like an addiction :chuckle:


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## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

Chris who sold me mine last year took a lot of time with me after the sale to go through all the instrumentation etc. His last words before I set off were "Take your time getting used to the car. Don't go crazy at the start". 

Wise words!! Its taken me 12 months and a stage 1 with gear box upgrade and Y Pipe. Time taken. 

Your ability and fun will increase as time goes by. I am not an experienced fast car driver. Never been on a track. I had to get used to the car and gradually it has rewarded me with the best driving experiences of my life.

I think some people sometimes expect to much from all the hype. It is just a car at the end of the day but the more you put in, the more you get back.

Enjoy it each day and take your time to get to know it.


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Well said mate :bowdown1:

I've been lucky enough to own a few fast cars so am used to slinging something quick down a country road. However as you have stated it took a little bit of time for me to really lean on this one. It was only very recently that a couple of mates following me on a hoon said, wow you certainly seem at home now as you were really moving around at times, a lot more than when you first got it :chuckle:


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

I think my point is that there's a difference between being extremely capable and being involving. I'm am totally impressed with the cars capabilities, but only find it truly involving when you're travelling at light speed. I'm sure it's thrilling on track, but are its limits too high to be truly involving as a road car?


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## isub (Mar 18, 2013)

Caveman said:


> but are its limits too high to be truly involving as a road car?


I should hope so!


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

At lower speeds yes mate, in my personal opinion anyway. Most modern cars are the same tbh. If you want true low speed involvement buy something like a caterham or atom ; )


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## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

Caveman said:


> I think my point is that there's a difference between being extremely capable and being involving. I'm am totally impressed with the cars capabilities, but only find it truly involving when you're travelling at light speed. I'm sure it's thrilling on track, but are its limits too high to be truly involving as a road car?


I think what you have said is the main crux of your slight disappointment in the car. The whole ethos of the car? Why it was designed? To go round circuits quickly. Its limits can not be reached legally on the roads in my opinion.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Caveman said:


> I think my point is that there's a difference between being extremely capable and being involving. I'm am totally impressed with the cars capabilities, but only find it truly involving when you're travelling at light speed. I'm sure it's thrilling on track, but are its limits too high to be truly involving as a road car?


A complete array of comments that all have credibility. People own a GT-R for different reasons, and being different with a bit of negative snobbery is quite relevant for many owners.

However, once you have owned one for a few weeks, played with the RRR buttons, it is time to book yourself onto a CAT Driver Training day with Colin and Jo Hoad at Millbrook. I truly believe that as a driver you will never appreciate what a GT-R is and what it can do until you have done this course. It will not teach you to be the next Lewis Hamilton, but it will show you what the GT-R can do in your own hands, and believe me, it is an amazing car that needs to be learnt. 

Once the initial course has been completed, you will want to go on another and another, so that is my advice.

Then book a GTROC track day and have some real safe fun.


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

nurburgringgtr said:


> However, once you have owned one for a few weeks, played with the RRR buttons, it is time to book yourself onto a CAT Driver Training day with Colin and Jo Hoad at Millbrook. I truly believe that as a driver you will never appreciate what a GT-R is and what it can do until you have done this course. It will not teach you to be the next Lewis Hamilton, but it will show you what the GT-R can do in your own hands, and believe me, it is an amazing car that needs to be learnt.


I have never been on a track day in my own car but I am seriously tempted to go for something like this. Milbrook is only 50 miles from me and it seems a shame not to exploit the GTR to the full whilst I have it. I have never really felt tempted because I don't find the GTR boring for road use and I guess I am kind of daunted by track days as I am no Schumacher and don't claim to be! Can you book a training day in with your own car or does it have to be a car that the training staff provide?


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

You drive your own car with an instructor beside you. The courses run by CAT Training are well known and highly regarded by many GT-R owners. 

I am certainly no Schumacher myself, but the training taught me more in one day about the my own capabilities and that of the car than during my many years of driving.

Find out more details on Customer Driven Driver Training... or just contact them through the forum as they are listed under the Traders section.


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

nurburgringgtr said:


> Find out more details on Customer Driven Driver Training... or just contact them through the forum as they are listed under the Traders section.


Thank you. :thumbsup:

PS: Sorry for thread hijack.


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## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

Try treating the accelerator pedal as ON/OFF switch... so either foot off or WOT. Report back.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

nurburgringgtr said:


> A complete array of comments that all have credibility. People own a GT-R for different reasons, and being different with a bit of negative snobbery is quite relevant for many owners.
> 
> However, once you have owned one for a few weeks, played with the RRR buttons, it is time to book yourself onto a CAT Driver Training day with Colin and Jo Hoad at Millbrook. I truly believe that as a driver you will never appreciate what a GT-R is and what it can do until you have done this course. It will not teach you to be the next Lewis Hamilton, but it will show you what the GT-R can do in your own hands, and believe me, it is an amazing car that needs to be learnt.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice. 

Also in regards to the OP's first post the car is so capable it's just not into it's stride at normal road speeds. So it is going to be a bit boring.
A car that's exciting at low speed isn't going to have the capabilities at high speed.
It's an impressive car, I admire it and had a lot of fun in mine.
But I needed a change for a bit as it did become a bit boring at anything other than maximum attack on a track day.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

On track these things are epic...come rain or shine


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

That's exactly my point! The car's so capable that it's not involving unless you're at maximum attack at track speeds. At normal road speeds it's rather bland. 

What I can't work out is what makes a car involving at road speeds? Can a car do both ends of the spectrum well? Can a car be both involving on the road and still highly capable and fast on the track?

What I'm realising is that involvement has nothing to do with speed, but more a combination of character, sound, mechanical tactility and feel.

I think the GTR only really reveals it's character when going balls out, making it uninvolving on the road, IMHO.

Question is, which car can provide what I'm looking for under £70k and still have back seats?


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Caveman said:


> That's exactly my point! The car's so capable, that's it's not involving unless you're at maximum attack at track speeds. At normal road speeds it's rather bland.
> 
> What I can't work out is what makes a car involving at road speeds? Can a car do both ends of the spectrum well? Can a car be both involving on the road and still highly capable and fast on the track?
> 
> ...


To me the GTR has tons of character - far more than my previous 997 GT2, GT3 and Turbo...it gets under your skin...sold my last one when junior on way and bought current one two weeks after junior born!


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

I don't disagree that the Gtr has character, my assertion is simply that the character isn't revealed at road speeds, only at banzai full-on warp speed. IMHO.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

The problem is you are looking at new or nearly new cars.
All well built, capable and so well designed they lack something special under £70k IMO.

Also no car suits everyone.
Maybe an R35 is not for you if you don't want to drive it too fast on the road or do track time.
Some people like the pose value, but I don't get that myself.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Henry 145 said:


> To me the GTR has tons of character - far more than my previous 997 GT2, GT3 and Turbo...it gets under your skin...sold my last one when junior on way and bought current one two weeks after junior born!


Didn't you recently say in the 'GTR or German' thread that you were thinking of an M3 or RS4?

I'm actually wondering if a supercharged M3 would be more involving and more fun due to the high revving V8 and more readily reachable on-road limits. Nowhere near as quick or capable, more maybe more fun and involving?


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## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

Caveman said:


> Didn't you recently say in the 'GTR or German' thread that you were thinking of an M3 or RS4?
> 
> I'm actually wondering if a supercharged M3 would be more involving and more fun due to the high revving V8 and more readily reachable on-road limits. Nowhere near as quick or capable, more maybe more fun and involving?


Having come from a supercharged E92 M3 I can tell you that is not the case.

I've owned all sorts including some of the most highly regarded road cars like the 360 Stradale and M3 CSL. The GTR is the best road car I've ever had for all round personality and capability. BUT, I've never had it stock. I got it at stage 1 and had doubts. The suspension and Dunlops really irritated. Then I got MPSS and Stage 4 and really loved it, but felt the factory feel had gone and the MPSS on track were rubbish.

Finally ended up the latest Ecutek maps, Litchfield suspension and R888s - the car is for me now, close to perfect. Every drive is exciting. It just needs a better noise (exhaust) and more top end (maybe stage 4.5). For now though, it is brilliant.

However - if you want exciting at any speed, it isn't the car for that. You needs something small and light. Just got my Type R FN2 back, now fully roll-caged and stripped etc - just 1100kgs and currently 225bhp (soon to be 280 Normally Aspirated). It works on the road, and is epic at any speed. I don't think one car can do all jobs, but the GTR comes close.

Incidentally the GTR even as stage 1 was massively faster than the E92 M3 ESS I had (with 642bhp).

The peaky nature of it meant the GTR on average had 100bhp more than the M3 up to the redline of the GTR. It was only then that the E92 went ahead near the redline, where you can't use it. In some ways, the E92 was better at 460bhp normally aspirated as you could use all of those horses. I still loved the car, but the engine did let go shortly after I sold it at only 18k miles (with the supercharger on for just 5000 miles)


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## GTRNICK (Apr 29, 2005)

It does not have any driver involvement whatsoever IMO very playstation like. 

It give's a numb feeling and is not a real drivers car.

I'm not saying its a bad car I do like it a lot but there is no thrill what so ever.

For the record I have driven an SVM 650R which a good friend of mine owns and yes its very very fast but that's it!


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Caveman said:


> Didn't you recently say in the 'GTR or German' thread that you were thinking of an M3 or RS4?
> 
> I'm actually wondering if a supercharged M3 would be more involving and more fun due to the high revving V8 and more readily reachable on-road limits. Nowhere near as quick or capable, more maybe more fun and involving?


Yes I have moments of weakness - have them every one and then!


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## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

I think part of the problem here lies within the very history and nature of the GTR.

Some of us have been involved in it from its early days and some are now owning for the first time. Its an evolution. A passage of time. A creation. A future.

GTR is for some passion. For others a badge to jump on expecting something? That something is totally defined by what you have read, heard or experienced.

What ever your expectations are. Whatever you have heard, tried, tested, experienced, driven, GTR is what ever you WANT it to be. 

Just go looking for it.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

I want it to be a car that I find rewarding to drive on the road due to the level of involvement that it provides. I want the level of engagement to be down to the simple interaction between my inputs as a driver and the car, and not dictated by how fast I happen to be driving. 

Mart.


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## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

Caveman said:


> I want it to be a car that I find rewarding to drive on the road due to the level of involvement that it provides. I want the level of engagement to be down to the simple interaction between my inputs as a driver and the car, and not dictated by how fast I happen to be driving.
> 
> Mart.


Why did you buy a GTR then?


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## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

Caveman said:


> I want it to be a car that I find rewarding to drive on the road due to the level of involvement that it provides. I want the level of engagement to be down to the simple interaction between my inputs as a driver and the car, and not dictated by how fast I happen to be driving.
> 
> Mart.


Why did you buy a GTR then?


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## jason4656 (Jul 28, 2013)

BigBen said:


> Why did you buy a GTR then?


how was he gonna know that before he bought it? fair play for getting one and admitting its not feeling right for you if you ask me, just remember, on here people are gonna pull you apart if you say a bad word against a GTR as they have GTR coloured glasses on...having your own opinion? i mean cmon, we all know thats illegal!!


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## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

jason4656 said:


> how was he gonna know that before he bought it? fair play for getting one and admitting its not feeling right for you if you ask me, just remember, on here people are gonna pull you apart if you say a bad word against a GTR as they have GTR coloured glasses on...having your own opinion? i mean cmon, we all know thats illegal!!


Sorry but it wasn't a loaded question with regard to knowledge. I just wondered?


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## jason4656 (Jul 28, 2013)

Yeah, it's still same question, why not? How is anyone going to perceive the experience of owning and driving without doing just that....?....without the sarcasm on the end ..it's late lol


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

If I didn't have the gtr I'd be driving an exige. Only car that does anything for me, apart from porkers and ferrari


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

For me I love driving the GT-R, no it's not a full on raw driving feel, but it ticks the boxes for me. One of my considerations when buying it was will it be robust and reliable enough to be used every day in all weather conditions, and the answer is yes. If I had a Lambo or Ferrari I would dread seeing it get dirty in the rain, salty roads in winter, flies and bird crap in spring, etc, but as it's 'just a Nissan' it doesn't seem to matter as much.

I wanted a car to drive and use just for fun, which I don't have to overly pamper or take back to the garage every month, and the GT-R is spot on for that. I guess my only critisism would be that it's a bit too refined, not quite raw enough for me, but I'm changing back to runflats next week so that will help a bit lol.

I've noticed that some people say the driving experience is a bit too mundane unless driving at warp speeds, but then they go and fit non runflat tyres for a smoother ride!


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Ja5on said:


> If I didn't have the gtr I'd be driving an exige. Only car that does anything for me, apart from porkers and ferrari


I drove an Exige S yesterday.
Wasn't blown away, but testing the Cup version next...

What I will say is it's certainly fun and involving at road speeds.


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

I understand what Caveman is saying but what do you want out of a car at legal speeds? You go round a corner at 30 or 40 mph in a GTR its a doddle..... do the same in lets say a Porsche GT3... is it any different? Probably not much difference.

Boost the GTR up to around 600ish bhp then im sure it will be a lot more engaging.

As said by BLADE previously I also had a E93 M3 DCT which was supercharged. It was actually a pain in the ass... it has such a sensitive throttle pedal that it was horrible to drive at low speeds.

When I first bought the GTR I went straight to the Nurburgring (it was already booked before hand).... even in the so called uncrashable GTR I felt that if I pushed it that little bit more the Nurburgring was ready to bite me in the ass.

I think you have the right car.. just give it a bit more time and try scaring yourself a bit. Just make sure you do it safely please!!


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

BigBen said:


> Why did you buy a GTR then?


Why did I buy the GTR? Because on my two 30 minute test drives, it displayed all the things that I was looking for in a driver’s car. I didn’t expect to necessarily gel with the car straight away, and hoped it to become rewarding/involving as I got to know it. Thing is, after two months of driving it, I have no doubt how incredibly capable the car is, but it doesn’t give me any satisfaction. I drove to work today, as I do every day in my classic Impreza turbo wagon which weighs 1200kg, and despite only having 200 bhp and 120 thousand miles on the clock, I really enjoyed hustling it along the wet twisty road to work. I didn’t go much over about 80mph, but I really felt like I was driving it. 

That’s what I find so paradoxical, the GTR steers, turns-in, accelerates, brakes and handles far better than my old scoob, but it doesn’t make it more involving. 

I’m seriously considering a much slower and more compromised car now, perhaps a 911 or an M3? Slower and less capable, but maybe more fun on the road?

Mart.


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## majestic (May 3, 2010)

Try a 32, 500 bhp, had mine 3 years,had porsche 911, ferrari , mercedes, and most of other powerfull cars since the 70s, the 32 ticks all the boxes even as a daily driver. Am 76 years old and use car all year round. Oh also owned v12 e type for 10 years. Get rust free model and spend a few bob on it, you wont go wrong.


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

CT17 said:


> I drove an Exige S yesterday.
> Wasn't blown away, but testing the Cup version next...
> 
> What I will say is it's certainly fun and involving at road speeds.


New V6 or the older versions? Ive always had a hankering to own one, I loved my dad 111R when he had it. For a day to day car its maybe not as ideal but for a blow off steam and have fun car I think it fits the bill.

Dont get me wrong I love my GTR and doing the sprint in it I finally had the chance the properly chuck it about. But I think there will always be apart of me that would love an exige.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Ja5on said:


> New V6 or the older versions? Ive always had a hankering to own one, I loved my dad 111R when he had it. For a day to day car its maybe not as ideal but for a blow off steam and have fun car I think it fits the bill.
> 
> Dont get me wrong I love my GTR and doing the sprint in it I finally had the chance the properly chuck it about. But I think there will always be apart of me that would love an exige.


The newer V6.


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

CT17 said:


> The newer V6.


OOOOO, whats your thoughts on the motor? Decent sound, the videos didnt reveal much


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Ja5on said:


> OOOOO, whats your thoughts on the motor? Decent sound, the videos didnt reveal much


I liked it.
But (and this'll be no surprise) it lacks the punch of the GT-R as there is no hessitation/lag and then huge bhp kicking your head in.
The supercharged V6 has very linear performance which makes it feel slightly slower than it it.

It's very usuable, good fun at any speed and the feeling through the unassisted steering is very nice, if a little busy on the road so you have to work a bit to keep it going where you want to.

It's the Cup version (not track only Cup R) I'm interested in with 60-80kg removed as that's quite a bit in a car that's under 1200kg.

So I'm hoping my dealer is going to get me up to Hethel to have a look in the factory and take a Cup version out on the Lotus test track.

This is what I fancy...


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## CATDT (Feb 20, 2007)

CT17 said:


> It's the Cup version (not track only Cup R)


I can't remember Richard - are you at Silverstone on Sunday? If yes, one of our clients who is doing the day should be in exactly one of those - so long as Chris at Center Gravity has got the dampers sorted in time. He moved from a GT3. 

Jo


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

CATDT said:


> I can't remember Richard - are you at Silverstone on Sunday? If yes, one of our clients who is doing the day should be in exactly one of those - so long as Chris at Center Gravity has got the dampers sorted in time. He moved from a GT3.
> 
> Jo


Hi Jo,

No I'm not there.
I sold my R35 and am awaiting a rebuild of my R32 and Skoda.
So I'm without a toy, hence taking the Yeti to Brands Hatch a week ago.

Be interested to hear what CAT DT think about them though.


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## CATDT (Feb 20, 2007)

CT17 said:


> Be interested to hear what CAT DT think about them though.


Colin says he'll gladly chat through on the phone - give us a call when you've 5 mins today if you like.

Jo


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## Fred (Oct 11, 2001)

Donbona said:


> I understand what Caveman is saying but what do you want out of a car at legal speeds? You go round a corner at 30 or 40 mph in a GTR its a doddle..... do the same in lets say a Porsche GT3... is it any different? Probably not much difference.
> 
> Boost the GTR up to around 600ish bhp then im sure it will be a lot more engaging.
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

CT17 said:


> I liked it.
> But (and this'll be no surprise) it lacks the punch of the GT-R as there is no hessitation/lag and then huge bhp kicking your head in.
> The supercharged V6 has very linear performance which makes it feel slightly slower than it it.
> 
> ...


Looks awesome, I think the lack of punch is what puts me off a bit.

No doubt there will be power packages somewhere.

Need to see if I can get a go in one


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Fred said:


> Donbona said:
> 
> 
> > I understand what Caveman is saying but what do you want out of a car at legal speeds? You go round a corner at 30 or 40 mph in a GTR its a doddle..... do the same in lets say a Porsche GT3... is it any different? Probably not much difference.
> ...


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## Will64 (Jan 30, 2012)

Caveman said:


> Fred said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds like I'm in the same boat. I agree with your experience of the car. It seems there is such a thing as being too good...
> ...


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Been quoted £59k trade value on my 500 mile 63 plate GTR. Looks like Ill be keepin her a while longer then! Might as well spend longer getting to know her, rather than dropping my trousers straight away. 

Mart.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Caveman said:


> Been quoted £59k trade value on my 500 mile 63 plate GTR. Looks like Ill be keepin her a while longer then! Might as well spend longer getting to know her, rather than dropping my trousers straight away.
> 
> Mart.


No wonder you not bonded if you only done 500 miles - they don't get optimised until 1,200 miles!!


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

59k wow that's a corking piss take!


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## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

Caveman said:


> Been quoted £59k trade value on my 500 mile 63 plate GTR. Looks like Ill be keepin her a while longer then! Might as well spend longer getting to know her, rather than dropping my trousers straight away.
> 
> Mart.


500 miles? That's not even feeding the pony on the first date mate.


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

BigBen said:


> 500 miles? That's not even feeding the pony on the first date mate.


Lmfao at that comment :bowdown1:

Caveman, get breaking her in mate and some magic 'may' shine through  out in mine from 5am tomorrow and personally can't wait to get in her and get her moving around underneath me. No not the wife, the GT-R lol.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Henry 145 said:


> No wonder you not bonded if you only done 500 miles - they don't get optimised until 1,200 miles!!


What does getting it 'optimised' mean? Will the car be any different after the run-in service?

Mart.


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

Get the grand in hand and then throw on a Y pipe and a remap. You'll be on nodding terms with 600bhp, and you'll smile like a blind puff in a hotdog factory.

You can thank me later


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Caveman said:


> What does getting it 'optimised' mean? Will the car be any different after the run-in service?
> 
> Mart.


Yes - your suspension and gearbox have not been set up yet - 1,200 miles optimisation sees the car set up for fast road, track or comfort once everything has bedded in and the gearbox has a relearn and tweak


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## Protegimus (Aug 31, 2011)

Do yourself a favour.
Have some patience, run the car in; get her optimised then take her to Millbrook for a CAT DT day.
They will teach you how to drive the GT-R properly and you'll learn to appreciate her talents. She has many, but doesn't share them easily to those that don't know how to get the most from her.

Sure, you can't exploit the full performance all the time and I empathise a little with the not always feeling special comment as it is a big GT car. However, after two years of ownership/20k miles, learning how to exploit the potential and tweaking to my liking has formed a large and important part of the experience.
Bear in mind the refinement improvements of the 2013 probably mask the ability even more.

A good exhaust (involvement is important to me and I think sound contributes a big part of that for a performance car), complemented by the controlled power and responsiveness of EcuTek (Litchfield stage 4) makes the car much more capable and fun.
A GT-R can tootle around in relative comfort on a daily commute, turn into a beast with RNR for a blast around the country roads; that is epic on track and yet very capable in bad weather and snow.

The majority of other cars mentioned in this thread would fill a niche, but would a Lotus seem like such a good idea when sat in the garage due to snow or on a 700mile journey? There was a very nice 997 GT3 on track earlier this year and all I saw it do was understeer (slowly) round corners. I drove an M3 the other week for the first time in over ten years ...memories of a well balanced and quite exciting RWD car gave way to something that felt lethargic and damn right slow, with nowhere near the poise or feeling the GT-R offers and that was on a beautiful day on some lovely twisting country roads.

Let's be honest, there's always going to be something better/more popular/faster/more expensive; all the bollocks written about traction control and all wheel drive when every high performance car has it - it's where it fits with your personal needs that counts, not what others think or tell you about it.

Protegimus


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

500 miles!

The cars barely run in. Get out there and use the car


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Take it to Spa and the ring then you will start to understand the depth of ability this car has.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

paul__k said:


> Take it to Spa and the ring then you will start to understand the depth of ability this car has.


Well said


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Thx guys, good advice. Off for a drive. 

Mart.


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

Confused,

In the first 1200 miles I thought that was the running in period, then after the first optimisation you could run in hard.

So going by that you shouldn't have felt the full power etc......


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Ja5on said:


> Confused,
> 
> In the first 1200 miles I thought that was the running in period, then after the first optimisation you could run in hard.
> 
> So going by that you shouldn't have felt the full power etc......


Spot on


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## perrin21 (Aug 10, 2012)

I felt and still sometimes feel the same about the car. It does lack an X factor, but... There are a few things you can do to make things better.

1) ditch the run flats for MPSS. They transform the ride of the car dramatically.
2) get stage 1 immediately.
3) consider Litchfield suspension upgrade.
4) turn off the traction control and learn how to drive outside of the walled garden.

If all else fails, my fave car I've had was a BBR 275 Mini Cooper S. Still the most fun you can have in a small car IMO lol.


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Just got back from a early morning hoon with a couple of others on here and all I can say is that it was sooooo much fun. Car was really moving around and felt alive on damp roads :chuckle:

As has been said above. Run her in mate, get a cheeky remap and see what you feel from there. I can honestly say that I had more fun driving mine this morning than I used to driving my old Noble.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

I am running Advans with 285 front and 335 P Zeros. Also have KW sleeve over springs to lower her lofty heights.

I haven't maxed her out yet, but have gone over the strict max 3k revs as I think it's better for the engine. That said, how involving she is isn't simply determined by the power as I've said, and although quick acceleration is fun, alone it doesn't make an involving car, so I'm not expecting much more when I can truly let loose. 

That said, I agree that it's a little hasty to make any decisions until I know her better and she's run in. Despite the Russ Fellows system, I still feel she's lacking in the sound dept, maybe a down pipe will sort things out. I'll have to wait and see.

Mart.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

perrin21 said:


> I felt and still sometimes feel the same about the car. It does lack an X factor, but... There are a few things you can do to make things better.
> 
> 1) ditch the run flats for MPSS. They transform the ride of the car dramatically.
> 2) get stage 1 immediately.
> ...


At road speeds, yes, the GTR is a little lacking... #1 is GET IT ON TRACK!!! That is what the GTR was built for 

Stage 1 yes.... Litchfield suspension can come later, especially considering he has only done 500 miles.


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## digi (Dec 17, 2010)

mid-pipe will give her some noise. I did not do downs because she is my daily drive and any booming noise would drive me crazy.

Also, if you don't mind loud and good sounding exhausts, you can consider password JDM which is super loud but sounds so sweet, otherwise HKS legamax sounds good for the price or Mines titanium. No matter which exhaust you get, its never quite as sweet as a good NA exhaust sound.

As mentioned before, get a stage 2 to wake her up.

If all this fails, just sell her and get yourself into a 991 GT3.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

you have kW sleeve kit with only 500 miles on car?

335's on rear would surely destroy ability to have a playful rear end?


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## Buzby (May 15, 2013)

It will come. Running in you'll feel like a caged lion, but once that's done along with the tweaks you'll back at this wonder what all the fuss was about.


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## digi (Dec 17, 2010)

Chris Harris

2012 BMW M5 vs Nissan GT-R: Driven & Drifted - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube

start viewing at 3mins


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Caveman said:


> I am running Advans with 285 front and 335 P Zeros. Also have KW sleeve over springs to lower her lofty heights.
> 
> I haven't maxed her out yet, but have gone over the strict max 3k revs as I think it's better for the engine. That said, how involving she is isn't simply determined by the power as I've said, and although quick acceleration is fun, alone it doesn't make an involving car, so I'm not expecting much more when I can truly let loose.
> 
> ...


I'm completely confused.

You have a 63 plate GT-R with around 500 miles on it and not only have you not gelled with it yet or got a feel for it, but you've put a mix of different compound/make tyres front and rear, not to mention a KW suspension kit.

First off, you need to get some miles on it and get it optimised at 1200 miles before playing.

Secondly, you need a decent set of tyres that match.
The Advans are not the most grippy, but they are good if you like it moving about.
If the P Zeros have more grip you're just going to get more understeer...

I've never heard of anyone taking off the tyres it was designed for and sticking on a mismatched set before it's even done 1200 miles and been opended up, so you know how it is stock and you know what you want to alter.

:runaway:


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

Caveman said:


> I am running Advans with 285 front and 335 P Zeros. Also have KW sleeve over springs to lower her lofty heights.
> 
> I haven't maxed her out yet, but have gone over the strict max 3k revs as I think it's better for the engine. That said, how involving she is isn't simply determined by the power as I've said, and although quick acceleration is fun, alone it doesn't make an involving car, so I'm not expecting much more when I can truly let loose.
> 
> ...


Check my thread out on the sprint event I did, give you an idea of a russ fellows system with down pipes


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Sorry, u misunderstood. I have advan GT wheels with Pzero tyres front and rear. I changed the wheels/tyres the day it arrived as I despise the std wheels, and I hate how high the car looks standard, so I lowered the perch height with the KW kit which IMHO is more sensible than straight lowering springs.

As expected, having wider tyres gives less traction due to the reduced load over the contact patch, but improves lateral grip when cornering. 

M.


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

CT17 said:


> The Advans are not the most grippy, but they are good if you like it moving about.:


I like it moving around ; ) actually thinking of sticking with them  have you to blame for that CT lol.


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## Protegimus (Aug 31, 2011)

Ditch the KW sleeve over kit and fit Litchfield suspension kit. Get some proper tyres on your Advans.
Stop pulling our cocks.

Protegimus


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## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

"As expected, having wider tyres gives less traction due to the reduced load over the contact patch"

Its Albert ****ing Einsteins nemesis!


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## willgts (Jul 17, 2004)

As expected, having wider tyres gives less traction due to the reduced load over the contact patch, but improves lateral grip when cornering. 

No, Potter, no.

Got to say, your initial view of the car may end up being right, but after a mere 500 miles you are being a little impatient and not giving the car a fair trial.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

"So do wider tyres give better grip?

If the contact patch remains the same size and the coefficient of friction and frictional force remain the same, then surely there is no difference in performance between narrow and wide tyres? Well there is but it has a lot to do with heat transfer. With a narrow tyre, the contact patch takes up more of the circumference of the tyre so for any given rotation, the sidewall has to compress more to get the contact patch on to the road. Deforming the tyre creates heat. With a longer contact patch and more sidewall deformation, the tyre spends proportionately less time cooling off than a wider tyre which has a shorter contact patch and less sidewall deformation. Why does this matter? Well because the narrower tyre has less capacity for cooling off, it needs to be made of a harder rubber compound in order to better resist heating in the first place. The harder compound has less mechanical keying and a lower coefficient of friction. The wider tyres are typically made of softer compounds with greater mechanical keying and a higher coefficient of friction. And voila - wider tyres = better grip. But not for the reasons we all thought."



Read more: Car Bibles : The Wheel and Tyre Bible Page 3 of 4


Hehe, there's also some interesting points about nitrogen inflation on that site


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

What about traction though?


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