# R33 gtr white smoke not starting



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi jus after some advice... So i took the car to garage D about over a month ago
had a basic service done oil and air filter. Was told to put on a electric boost controller and i should have 400bhp as it has a bleed valve system at the moment.

Right so last sunday was driving on m4. I had beend driving all day because i had to pick up my cusin drop him to heathrow so was doing alot of motor way driving I was being carfefull and not Red lineing at any point.

(Turbos were warmed up)
Anyways On the way home on m4 decided to put my foot down DID NOT redline doing the speed limit then white smoke started comeing out the exhaust lots of white foggy smoke i felt the power drop i was in middle lane so i wanted to get on hard shoulder i was giving it gas but she wouldnt rev above 3000rpm drove about 20 to 30 yards and she stalled and has not started since.

Been Cheked so far spark plugs fine. fluid levels fine no oil loss. Water level fine. Fuel pump working. She ticks over but sounds like she is struggling to start!!!
Cheked the pipeing around the intercooler driver and passenger sides seems ok. Could it be blow head gasket there are no typical signs of mayo anywhere.

r33 gtr stage 1 with standard turbos.

Any ideas????


----------



## samgtr (Aug 4, 2010)

I think a boost pipe has slipped off. Double check all pipes properly . Similar thing happened to me.


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi thanks for the reply. Im not a mechanic but i just knw the simple basics. I cheked the pipeing around the intercool both driver and passenger that was ok... Where do i find the boost pipe?? 
thanks


----------



## David (Apr 25, 2003)

Boost pipe doesnt explain the smoke, take an boost pipe off and check for oil as a turbo may have failed and oiled the plugs up so badly it won start.

The other possibility which sounds more likely is you either have head gasket failure or melted pistons. You dont have to be redlining it for this to happen motorway speed would be more than enough load. Did you use a tank of 95?

I would start with a basic compression check


----------



## samgtr (Aug 4, 2010)

Chk the pipe that goes to the intake plenum (left side of engine)


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

Pulled out the spark plugs they were a little wet but had a spark plug tester and it fired up so plugs are fine.
I had some guy from VW cum over with a computer we plugged it in and his system only went back to 1999 so it managed to find a r34 seeing as they have same engine it came out with error code "key sequence fauilre" no idea what that means or even it if applys to my car....... 
Anwways will chek the pipe thats goes to the intake plenum.
Looked at the first piston it moves up and down so the first one is ok atleast... pritty lost at the moment.......


----------



## alkesh_inc (Nov 10, 2006)

dude do the compresion check, its not a boost hose, that wouldnt explain the white smoke. 

take the oli filler cap off and check for white residue, its its milky inside its most likely the head gasket and then do a compresion check on all cylinders. 

alks


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

Alks hows it going. Yeah took of the filler cap no residue at all no sign of it anywhere. Oil level is fine water level is fine. will need to do a compression test i suppose then.


----------



## David (Apr 25, 2003)

As above compression test is a must, just looking and seeing you have a piston is not the same thing.

It is quite possible you could have brocken a ringland or melted the side of the piston and you would never see it through the spark plug hole.

I think it is most likely you have a porous head or head gasket failure. But start with the compression check as if it did have compression it should start.

Remember you have a shed load of white smoke whilst fault finding so you are going to be looking for some form of mechanical failure.


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

guess im gonna have to take it to a specialist then and dont really wanna take it to local mechanics. Anyone know any good tuners for this kind of issue. Im thinking Riseing Sun..... Would a blown turbo cause her not to start? I knw it cud be head aswell... but no signs like i mentioned of head faulire in regards to mayo on cap filler loss of oil.. weird thing is all liquid levels are normal.


----------



## r32cosworthblue (Feb 24, 2008)

you can do a compression test youeself dude.

RK would get my vote


----------



## David (Apr 25, 2003)

I am not sure if you have seen the recent posts on here about rising sun declaring themselves bankrupt. So I wouldn't choose them, stick to the big names, RK, RB, Abbey, MGT.

Compression test should be possible by anyone, you can even buy a kit from halford.

I saw your post about fluid loss, unfortunately this may mean it is something piston/ block related. Start with the compression check and go from there


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

Jus to Confirm with you David there is NO fluid loss. Oil level is ok water level is also ok.

I spoke to richard at riseing sun on cuple days ago he said yeah bring it down so this is news to me they are bankrupt!!


----------



## David (Apr 25, 2003)

Manzgtr said:


> Jus to Confirm with you David there is NO fluid loss. Oil level is ok water level is also ok.
> 
> I spoke to richard at riseing sun on cuple days ago he said yeah bring it down so this is news to me they are bankrupt!!


So what was the smoke, it must have been either oil or water burning, so must have lost some of either, just not enough to notice.

So if its not now the leaking the leak must only occur when it is fully warm or running.

Re rising sun there was a long thread about it last week, from what I gatherd the guy running it ran it as a sole propriator, he declared himself bankrupt recently and re-opened the business under another name as a limited company. Apparently no one has lost any money, but it's still happened.


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

Yeah at the time it happened fluid must have leaked im thinking water cos of white smoke but who knows. When i cheked it with few other mechanics fluid levels were Ok.
Its just not starting now u can hear it tryin to start but its jus keeps ticking over without fireing up...... if the car stopped revving about 3000rpm does that mean something specific?? will have to call up a few garages now and get quotes as its to techinal for me


----------



## David (Apr 25, 2003)

Manzgtr said:


> Yeah at the time it happened fluid must have leaked im thinking water cos of white smoke but who knows. When i cheked it with few other mechanics fluid levels were Ok.
> Its just not starting now u can hear it tryin to start but its jus keeps ticking over without fireing up...... if the car stopped revving about 3000rpm does that mean something specific?? will have to call up a few garages now and get quotes as its to techinal for me


I am presuming the smoke came from the exhaust, not under bonnet.

Therefore the smoke must have come from either water or oil somehow passing into the combustion chamber.

Its now not starting, so this would suggest to me there is still water in afew of the comustion chambers, hence it wont start.

Or it has lost compression and the smoke you saw was oil smoke.

3000rpm is normally about the point you can ge to when a boost hose comes off. But nothing about a boost hose coming off would explain the smoke you saw.

I would start by ruling out the worst case, i.e compression.

What you could be hearing is it trying to start on 1,2 or 3 cylinders which isn't enough for it to run.


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

Thank you David u have been a great help. I will get it compression tested. And the Smoke was white very white and foggy which coverd most of the m4 behind me! I felt the power drop she didnt go above 3000rpm went for about 50 yards and she stalled on me. Ive got someone coming over to chek it for me i will give them all this info hopefully it will help.
And yes Smoke was from Exhaust


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Sounds like a blown turbo to me. White smoke could possibly be the water cooling to the turbo, but you would see fluid loss in the expansion tank.

It could also be that a boost pipe has come off allowing the turbo(s) to overspin and also causing a failure/breakage.


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

right so it could be a number of things that have gone wrong. Will not know till i get it to a specalist but have had the car looked at by few people basics were all cheked i.e oil water fule pump spark plugs everything ok. .... I tried starting it the other day and it sounds like its just about to fire up but keeps ticking over without starting.


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

If u take a breather off is it puffing?


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

I have not taken of the breather pipe and tried starting it. Ive only cheked the intercooler pipes they were fine. When i turn the key u can hear the exhaust just about to rumble


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Well if u get a chance just check that, as if it's breathing heavily then that would indicate a piston problem, ie broken ringland. 

As others have said a compression check will give u either good or bad news


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

thanks will chek that. Most likely i will be taking it to RSP this week


----------



## gts-tom (Jun 14, 2010)

Have you taken the intakes off the end of the turbos to see if there is any movement in the wheels. Failing that you could try this 
Wynn's 'Start You Bastard' Engine Additive Advert - YouTube


----------



## RKTuning (Nov 7, 2005)

I think i spoke to you on phone,
i did say it sounds like a blown turbo and you have sucked all the ceramic wheel particals back in and wrecked the bores hence why it wont start !!


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

no i have not taken of the intake pipes but thanks for the advice and that u tube video! taking car to a skyline tuner and will wait to see wot the outcome is.
I think I spoke to u from RK tuning u was recomended by a friend of this forum but ur a bit far from me.


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

car is at RSP
Compression and leak down test done. all 6 has very low compression
they took of the upper cover took out spark plugs they were damp
cheked to see if the timeing chain came out of place but that was fine it all lined up
they put preassure on the radiater to see if water came out underneath and out through the pistons but nothing happened.
been told engine will need to be taken out to see where the problem is.


----------



## alkesh_inc (Nov 10, 2006)

sorry to hear that dude...look on the bright side...time to upgrade


----------



## rasored (Apr 5, 2009)

any garage can do a compression test , and any garage can change a head gasket on an RB engine .. it just takes them longer than a specialist !

get a compression test it is best way to discount certain parts that may have failed .

white/grey smoke can be failed turbo / head gasket

ring journal may not smoke but will be down on compression

high pressure in the camshaft area of the head also can cause smoke through oil vapore being forced out of the breathers and into cold side and hot side of induction .

have a look inside the pipe from turbos to FMIC for heavy oil residue , turbos went on GTR and filled the FMIC with oil !!


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

ok bin told my turbo blew and got suked into engine. I have not spoken to RSP myself i had to get someone to call for me as im at work so dont knw the full details yet.....great


----------



## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

Manzgtr said:


> ok bin told my turbo blew and got suked into engine. I have not spoken to RSP myself i had to get someone to call for me as im at work so dont knw the full details yet.....great


Mate, I feel for you. Exhaust wheel back through manifolds into bores?
Not that is helps much, I had exhaust wheel go on my RB26DETT so know exactly where you are at.


----------



## rasored (Apr 5, 2009)

Manzgtr said:


> ok bin told my turbo blew and got suked into engine. I have not spoken to RSP myself i had to get someone to call for me as im at work so dont knw the full details yet.....great



not the end yet as it may have just thrown exhaust side , compression test will tell , most 26 turbo`s blow the exhaust side first meaning that it just goes down the exhaust and not through the engine , it is the induction side that you dont want spinning into fmic or engine

there are engines out there for about a grand and up , good luck:thumbsup:


----------



## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

rasored said:


> not the end yet as it may have just thrown exhaust side , compression test will tell , most 26 turbo`s blow the exhaust side first meaning that it just goes down the exhaust and not through the engine , it is the induction side that you dont want spinning into fmic or engine
> 
> there are engines out there for about a grand and up , good luck:thumbsup:


No no, i'm all sorted mate. :thumbsup: I have another engine in there that is smooth and tight 

It's actually quite common for the ceramics to go on the RB26 and like most people, I lifted off sucking them back in through the exhaust manifolds and through the head into the bores. Hence loss of compression on a good few of the cylinders. 

I sold that engine on ebay which went someway for recouping the costs for the new one.


----------



## gts-tom (Jun 14, 2010)

Thats crap news mate. Do you know what you want to do, ie rebuild or just buy a good condition complete engine/turbo set up from one of the traders on here. If your not looking to run mad power then thats probably the most economical route. Good luck


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

mate when i though it was the head gasket i was depressed now they told me turbos bin sucked in i feel worse! 
All i want is a 400bhp stage 1 thats all. 
RSP gonna call me today let me knw my options.
Compression on all 6 cylinders is low so that means the worst case scenario has happened.


----------



## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

Not tempted to rebuild yourself?


----------



## samgtr (Aug 4, 2010)

If your only after 400hp i would source another engine, r34 engine preferably and get new turbos.. Not worth rebuilding all forge if your just after 400hp


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

Been quoted 6grand by rsp for rebuild? does that sound right i dont have the details yet i think thats including steel turboes aswell!!!! will speak to them tomorow to ask what they gonna do for 6grand!!!!!


----------



## REDWOOD (Apr 21, 2010)

You can buy a new car for £6k running 400bhp!!!


----------



## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

Just scrap it.Throwing £6/£7k on an old banger Nissan is madness !


----------



## alkesh_inc (Nov 10, 2006)

whats that include? would be interested to hear the details. Ive been quoted 8 grand once by a tuner to replace a cracked head. turned out to be the head gasket, glad i didn't go ahead with the work. To this day i never heard of a head cracking.......


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

i aint spoken to them yet gonna call them tomorow i personally think thats alot u can buy a gtr for 6grand


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

If you decide to get shut how much you want for the complete engine as it is


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

bin told engine will be fully rebuilt forged pistons steel turbos rebuilt new n1 oil pump it will be like a brand new engine with 1 year guarantee. 
£6000 and would be able to handle much higher boost


----------



## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

£6k is a lot for the rebuild, you can buy a crate engine for less


----------



## Euroexports (Dec 14, 2011)

What exactly was it garage d did on your car mate?


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

we have quality used available as per our chats. Let us know which engine your prefer. We do get shocked when we here some of the rebuild prices quoted though !!!!


----------



## jimmy1234 (Nov 16, 2011)

Not the first time I've heard quotes like that on this forum.
What is it about the rb26 that justifys garages charging 2/3 times what you'd normally spend on a forged rebuild for other cars?

What should be rough costs of a rebuild?


----------



## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

I've been through all this, explored every avenue and heard all the same stories and had all the same bs quotes. 

Ask Dave he knows me well enough by now...
...get yourself a second hand engine off Dave or someone. For a straight engine swap, if I provided the engine, I got quoted £500 off a couple of people. 
They'll be plenty on your existing engine you can swap over and you can sell the broken long block on eBay to recoupe costs. 

I considered breaking mine, but like a lot of people, I had money tied up in mine as well as feeling a certain responsibility to eventually pass this car on to someone else to enjoy. 

Why not do the swap yourself if you have the space. Where are you based? If you were close I'd help you!


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

riseing sun said to me my rear turbo blew and got suked into engine damaged all the bores and pistons completely ****ing up my engine.
So it requires a complete rebuild forged pistons n1 oil pump and so on and 6grand for it?

all garage d did was change my oil and air filters 2 months ago and it was fine.

Been told by RSP maybe the bleed valve i had on my car was turned up to much (bought the car with the bleed valve fitted already car bought from paul brown only bought the car in december didnt do much miles on it either)

im based in west London


----------



## gts-tom (Jun 14, 2010)

6 grand and you only want around 400hp. Don't do it mate just get a second hand engine and turbos from a trader and £500 to drop it in by a mechanic, going to be about a third of the price. Also with the money you'd save you could buy a proper boost controller and not end up here again :thumbsup:


----------



## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

I can, in part at least, understand the 6k quote for removing, stripping down, rebore, fixing any head issues(even if thats salvageable) refitting with new parts, assembly, dropping it back in, test and setup. 
The labour charges and costs of bits and bobs adds up but then on top you're talking about forged pistons, an n1 pump (I'm guessing this is just the beginning of what's been suggested).

At the end of the day, you have to build to budget/personal time requirements. 
Also future proofing is worth considering. Depends where you want to take it. If 400 is your target go stock engine. 



Manzgtr said:


> riseing sun said to me my rear turbo blew and got suked into engine damaged all the bores and pistons completely ****ing up my engine.
> So it requires a complete rebuild forged pistons n1 oil pump and so on and 6grand for it?
> 
> all garage d did was change my oil and air filters 2 months ago and it was fine.
> ...


----------



## Manzgtr (Jan 11, 2012)

thanks for all the advice guys

SO i weighed up all my options and decided the to go witht the most cost effective route. Have purchased a second hand engine of Dave and waiting for it to be delivered to RSP cant wait to have the car back. Will probally get sum Steel turbs for it and make sure for now its not overboosting get RSP to chek it all out for me.

Not sure what im gonna do with my wrecked engine maybe sell it for parts


----------



## rasored (Apr 5, 2009)

Manzgtr said:


> thanks for all the advice guys
> 
> SO i weighed up all my options and decided the to go witht the most cost effective route. Have purchased a second hand engine of Dave and waiting for it to be delivered to RSP cant wait to have the car back. Will probally get sum Steel turbs for it and make sure for now its not overboosting get RSP to chek it all out for me.
> 
> Not sure what im gonna do with my wrecked engine maybe sell it for parts




Save some cash , check out these steel turbo`s , fekin cheap !

GTR33 Turbo Dynamics Hybrid Turbos | eBay


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Manzgtr said:


> thanks for all the advice guys
> 
> SO i weighed up all my options and decided the to go witht the most cost effective route. Have purchased a second hand engine of Dave and waiting for it to be delivered to RSP cant wait to have the car back. Will probally get sum Steel turbs for it and make sure for now its not overboosting get RSP to chek it all out for me.
> 
> Not sure what im gonna do with my wrecked engine maybe sell it for parts


If you decide to get shut let me know how much you want for it as I've got a mint bottom end so not bothered if that's ****ed I just want odds and sods of it


----------

