# CPR Tuned GT-R 770BHP Simon Chorlton



## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

*Specification.*

CPR-750 VF34 TURBOCHARGER UPGRADES
FORGE MOTORSPORT ACTUATORS
CPR DE-CAT TURBINE ELBOW DOWN PIPES
CPR VERSION GT 3.5" EXHAUST WITH DE-CAT Y-PIPE
CPR MAF BODIES WITH CONE FILTERS
HPX MAF SENSORS
HKS INTERCOOLERS
CPR HKS SSQV RACING B.O.V KIT
I.D. 1000CC INJECTORS
CPR FUEL PUMP UPGRADES
COBB TUNING ACCESS PORT AP-005
CPR CUSTOM TUNE (DYNO DYNAMICS)

CPR REAR DIFF COOLER KIT
CPR FRONT CIRCLIP RETAINER
CPR REAR CIRCLIP RETAINER
CPR UPRATED CLUTCH PACK PISTON AND SEAL KITS
LIMEY RACING 800LBFT CLUTCH PLATES

EIBACH PRO SPRING KIT
ISS FORGED 21" A113 RIMS
CPR FAST ROAD GEOMETRY
KNIGHT RACER CF SKIRTS
KNIGHT RACER CF REAR SPOILER
KNIGHT RACER CF REAR DIFFUSER
KNIGHT RACER CF FRONT FENDER VENTS
KNIGHT RACER CF FRONT GRILLE

*Performance.*

615.8HP At the wheels
(770 HP est at the flywheel using 20% Loss)
672 LBFT (Limited due to running on stock motor)
*
Built & Tuned by CPR (Car Planet Racing) on 97 RON Pump Fuel*

*Photos*


















































*Dyno Graphs
*


















A big thank you to Mr Simon Chorlton, the lucky owner of this incredible GT-R, who has commented that the car has an incredibly smooth power delivery, absolutely zero noticeable turbo lag compared to a tuned stock turbo'd car, and epic amounts of top end pull, this car is a special one. 

Built Stroker Motor + Uprated Turbochargers underway for this car soon!

Thanks for reading!


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## martin320 (Aug 29, 2009)

cool looking GTR


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## coolmeister (Feb 7, 2011)

Very nice!
How much would all that have cost, if you don't mind me asking?


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## GTR-SpecV (Feb 23, 2009)

Nice Wheels..


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## Jaw_F430 (Apr 14, 2009)

coolmeister said:


> Very nice!
> How much would all that have cost, if you don't mind me asking?


Prob £15K+ looking at their website


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

Stock engine ?


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Love the wheels.

I wonder if Admiral Multicar would be happy with those mods


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

ChuckUK said:


> Stock engine ?


Stock internals at that power :runaway:


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## andrew186 (May 3, 2010)

clean looking car


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## T80 GTR (Jan 10, 2010)

nice car and results:thumbsup:

what boost level are you running?

surley they mite be a chance of rods bending at this power level?
or are you confident the stock internals can hold this kinda power level without any problems:nervous:?

p.s nice rimz


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

nice car love the look


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## AndyBrew (Feb 2, 2011)

I was of the understanding standard internals were good for 750hp.


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

Thank for you for the nice comments,

In relation to threshold of the stock motor;

It is the torque that an engine produces that will cause a failure, not directly the power (which is a function of torque and RPM). When tuning the GTR having fitted injectors and de-catted downpipes it is normal to attain torque levels around the 660-680FtLb mark which has been proven to be reliable in many modified cars from our shop. When tuning cars with turbo upgrades, careful tuning of the wastegate duty, ignition timing and CVTCS (variable cam timing) is carried out to produce smooth torque delivery/boost control and to limit the torque to a proven safe level thus the stresses on the engine are barely more than a stock turbo modified car. 

The difference... Is that 600+ FtLb is available for over a 3000 RPM powerband on our turbo upgrade pack instead of 500 RPM on the stock turbos, also the minor difference of over 285 HP more than the factory car! This CPR 750'X' pack will produce in excess of 700 FtLb but we won't explore these regions on a stock internal motor.

- CPR Tech


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## kevan kemp (Jan 27, 2010)

as you were so kind in explaining the bhp loss on the rolling road meet you didnt attend

i think it only fair we add a coment of warning to all guys pushing their r35 conversions too hard...your walking a tight rope with your 770bhp power upgrade and low torque as you put it! you can not simulate all driving conditions on the rollers and power torque
figures will shift with driving loads

we have done many builds across europe and advice you do the same type of build
before shit hits the blanket..maybe we could post what these rods look like 4 u?
we have personally seen bent rods at less power than this so be carefull guys kk


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

Pricing of all upgrade as follows (All prices excl.VAT @ 20%)

CPR-750 VF34 TURBOCHARGER UPGRADES - £3995.00
FORGE MOTORSPORT ACTUATORS - £306.24
CPR DE-CAT TURBINE ELBOW DOWN PIPES - £595.00
CPR VERSION GT 3.5" EXHAUST WITH DE-CAT Y-PIPE - £1450.00
CPR MAF BODIES WITH CONE FILTERS - £595.00
HPX MAF SENSORS - £249.00 x 2
HKS INTERCOOLERS - £3295.00
CPR HKS SSQV RACING B.O.V KIT - £495.00
I.D. 1000CC INJECTORS - £695.50
CPR FUEL PUMP UPGRADES - £495.00
COBB TUNING ACCESS PORT AP-005 - £695.50
CPR CUSTOM TUNE (DYNO DYNAMICS) - £500.00

Installation of all above parts = £1820.00+VAT

Total - £14244.74+VAT

CPR REAR DIFF COOLER KIT - £695.00
CPR FRONT CIRCLIP RETAINER - £380.00
CPR REAR CIRCLIP RETAINER - £115.00
CPR UPRATED CLUTCH PACK PISTON AND SEAL KITS - £825.00 x 2
LIMEY RACING 800LBFT CLUTCH PLATES - £995.00

All labour to fit = £1950.00 + VAT

EIBACH PRO SPRING KIT - £260.00
ISS FORGED 21" A113 RIMS - £895.00 x 4
CPR FAST ROAD GEOMETRY - £120.00
KNIGHT RACER CF FRONT LIP SPOILER - £695.00
KNIGHT RACER CF SKIRTS - £695.00
KNIGHT RACER FULL CF REAR SPOILER - £499.99
KNIGHT RACER CF REAR DIFFUSER - £695.00
KNIGHT RACER CF FRONT FENDER VENTS - £399.00
KNIGHT RACER CF FRONT GRILLE - £250.00


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

kevan kemp said:


> as you were so kind in explaining the bhp loss on the rolling road meet you didnt attend
> 
> i think it only fair we add a coment of warning to all guys pushing their r35 conversions too hard...your walking a tight rope with your 770bhp power upgrade and low torque as you put it! you can not simulate all driving conditions on the rollers and power torque
> figures will shift with driving loads
> ...


Kevan, 

In the interest of playing fair, and giving the correct information to owners, we feel we needed to disagree with the stated transmission losses that you mentioned your cars produce (in the TRL Dyno Day Post), the transmission losses you were saying were over inflated, and the flywheel hp numbers you were quoting were not realistic or correct! Although kudos to you, you have a number of GTR's with higher HP than us at the moment on built motors. 

We just want there to be a level playing field, with everyone singing from the say hymn sheet!  whether we all start universally using wheel horse power figures, or a standard transmission loss % estimate across the board?

Please don't get the hump that we have corrected your maths and brought our opinion of the transmission loss on the GT-R through our extensive dyno testing program over the last 3 years, as you may have implied. 

What we don't find is fair is to warn people of the tuning their cars based on horsepower figures, and by what you have mentioned, preference being to run cars at the drag strip over actual methodical dyno tuning that we perform in house. We don't see it fair that you are warning customers that what we are doing might not be safe, and that without a dyno you are more knowledgable of the exact power/torque capabilities of a stock GTR Motor?

When we tune our cars, we pay very careful attention to the torque produced by the motor, especially when considering pushing a stock GTR engine up to the 670lbft region, where we will balance the car by manipulating boost, ignition and CVTCS (Variable Cam Timing) to prevent over-torque in areas of the RPM Range (where sudden spikes at this level can cause damage). The Final Power (that you incorrectly refer to as being the key point to watch when tuning the car) is a by-product of the torque, and it is through our skill in mapping the car that we will end up with producing a higher final peak HP, and yet keep the torque level safe and stable to prevent the engine damage/rod failure.

With your focus on HORSEPOWER LIMITS of the stock GT-R Engine (saying that 770bhp is too much for a stock motor), we would like to point out (please refer to the attached graph above), that at peak power 770bhp, the respective torque level is at a much lower 600lbft, than the peak torque level experienced from around 3500 to 5000 RPM (670LBFT). The force trying to snap/bend a con-rod is generated by TORQUE not HORSEPOWER, controlling this torque is what is critical, and is something you need a dyno to achieve.

You mention you have seen con-rod's fail at lower HP Levels than 770HP, but what quality of tune these cars had, and what levels of torque they were experiencing? these are the key elements as to how the rod failed, and we don't feel that without a dyno you can actively see what is going on with the motor during the run. 

Pushing the car to the levels that we push our cars to on the dyno is FAR BEYOND any level of punishment the end user can the car under, even at the Circuit. We put massive amounts of safety margins into our maps, as we are a circuit racing team as well as Performance Road Tuner, where we know how to set up 900bhp+ Circuit cars that are used flat out for 25 minute sessions at a time. When we dyno tune cars, we put them under even more demand, and even more load than seen in those circuit race environments. 

That is why we bought a dyno, so we can tune our motors to the safe limits, and know exactly what the motor is producing at every moment and how to control this accurately with the changes to the map. You learn a lot when you have a dyno, and allows you to achieve much more. There is only so much you can tell about a car's performance from the bum dyno (or black dyno - drag strip as you mention). We used to tune all of our cars (even race cars) on the road (as you do) between 2001 and 2008. Then we bought a dyno and learnt a massive amount in terms of tuning other areas of the map, rather than just peak power. Until you have regular use of a dyno, we don't expect you to understand the advantages, as we did not know ourselves until we bought a dyno! Previous to having our own dyno, we too visited many different dynos across the country (G-Force/WRC Technologies/TRL/Abbey), and have spent a fortune renting dyno time. But even these efforts and costs do not come close to the benefits you get from having your own dyno. 

In terms of road mapping (as you do), we also have some tarmac outside our shop, and we do test the cars on the road, after we have perfected the map on the dyno, with full datalog, as you do. (please see this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us2DdT0649g) We just have the additional benefit of a dyno, which gathers far more information that you can hope for by guessing on the road. 

WE HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT! 

GET A DYNO! :thumbsup:


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## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

opcorn:


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## R32 GTR R32 GTR (Nov 27, 2009)

ouch this thread is going to be interesting.


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## GTR-SpecV (Feb 23, 2009)

Blimey CPR upgrade cost a lot !! i don't think the rod can take it!! as what KK said i agreed with him.. anyway good luck.


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## stehub (Nov 16, 2005)

wow interesting thread i wonder what SVMs reply will be (i do remember SVM saying these motors were good for more power 6 months or so ago but now he has changed his mind) ?.

i suppose maybe SVM has the evidence of how much is enough, so we can doubt it (hes seen it and been there and done that).


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## stehub (Nov 16, 2005)

GTR-SpecV said:


> Blimey CPR upgrade cost a lot !! i don't think the rod can take it!! as what KK said i agreed with him.. anyway good luck.


from what i read and hear i was told 650-700 was more than enough.


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## T80 GTR (Jan 10, 2010)

CarPlanetRacing said:


> Thank for you for the nice comments,
> 
> In relation to threshold of the stock motor;
> 
> ...


what level of tune would you say pistons need changing? or would you change both piston and rods at the same time? what boost are you running on this car?


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Whats the point of lots of horse power if you have to cap the torque ? All that cash spent and no internal work done. Would it not be prudent to start inside if the high power figures are being targeted ??


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## baileyconstruct (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm starting to get a little confused as I thought torque was the element along with rpm which gave the car the power (bhp)?

If you reduce torque then you reduce power (bhp)? Unless you let the car increase its rpm?

Therefore, capping torque will also cap or have an adverse effect on the power?

I agree with CPR though that tuning and understanding a car must be so much simpler and visual when you have a dyno. You can simply hook the car up and run it and get a read out. Change the ECU, exhaust, turbo, intake etc run again and instantly see a positive or negative gain.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

What sort of warranty would CPR offer if a rod failed on this type of build ?


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

Chris956 said:


> Whats the point of lots of horse power if you have to cap the torque ? All that cash spent and no internal work done. Would it not be prudent to start inside if the high power figures are being targeted ??


I often wonder at what point torque becomes useless surely at a certain point a huge amount of torque is pointless as you have massive traction issues and the net effect is that you cannot utilize it, however I agree that I cannot see who you can cap torque and yeild significantly high bhp on a turbo charged car, surely there is a limit to the ability to restrict torque through timing and ignition while retaining stock internals.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Torque gives acceleration, BHP gives top speed.


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

hi guys ,,,this means one of two things...as we havnt seen too many of your cars out and about it can only mean
you either, dont produce the power you claim? and their for will have no issues with the oem rods, a quick trip to independant rollers or run up the strip! will soon tell ,we have made it easy and set the times for you to gauge you car on lol

or your on planet moon not car planet?...the rods will bend very soon ...end of!

it maybe cool to build a demo car on the edge too keep up with the jones s !but not a customers,,sorry all that bullshit dosnt wash! 

we noticed your conversions claim high bhp figs but seen no evidance of them?
even an 850bhp car where is it? does this have oem rods? or just a big price tag?

all powerfull r35s over 750bhp must have rod changes , like your gear box clips
stuff brakes and you cant play god when it might happen.

pls take the offer up and bring your oem rod car to play, im sure you will then find out we are right...

All three cars we took to the organised gtroc event (not our own) are in a differant league
heads/cams/fueling/rods/pistons/valves all developed for power and reliability for the owners

for you to suggest you have a reliable 770bhp is a joke to all the guys out their

get out their and prove it before you insult our cars on a post thread by svm
we have the records  stop hiding behind your dyno you funded by (well ill stop their) 

check out an svm car spec and you will get the drift 
you charge alot of money for these conversions the least you can do is make them safe!

when she goes bang its to late..we have built dozens of r35 units and are talking from 
experiance. data all around the world also suggest you have created a ticking time bomb

honestly how much safety have you left in this car? ans none!

im sorry for getting like this but we also have spent alot of time on giving our customers the best...next time you post rubbish on our threads pls back it up with results!
and i will take it on board... time will tell your wrong, 


if i was you id sell your rolling road and by a batch of H beam rods you will need them!
cheers kk

ps lets not mention gearboxes and pictures !!


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Torque gives acceleration, BHP gives top speed.




I read this a while back i think this explanes the best =

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you. :nervous:


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

mattysupra said:


> I read this a while back i think this explanes the best =
> 
> Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you. :nervous:


You been reading CC's sig


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

misters3 said:


> You been reading CC's sig




LOL, is that where it came from? i have it inplanted on the brain!


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

hmm very interesting exchange there from both parties :runaway:

dyno against road tune? rods or torque restriction? which one will it be?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

mattysupra said:


> LOL, is that where it came from? i have it inplanted on the brain!


You owe me 5p royalties......


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

Chris956 said:


> Whats the point of lots of horse power if you have to cap the torque ? All that cash spent and no internal work done. Would it not be prudent to start inside if the high power figures are being targeted ??


My exact thoughts. I always believed that BHP is the p1ssing contest figure (we all need to p1ss every now & again) but it's torque where the real action & performance is. 

So on the road a 700bhp car with 580lbsft will actually be slower or at least no quicker than a 650bhp car with 600lbsft.


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## kevan kemp (Jan 27, 2010)

w8pmc said:


> My exact thoughts. I always believed that BHP is the p1ssing contest figure (we all need to p1ss every now & again) but it's torque where the real action & performance is.
> 
> So on the road a 700bhp car with 580lbsft will actually be slower or at least no quicker than a 650bhp car with 600lbsft.



AGREE

this isnt about rollers v road tune ...its about bullshit and facts
ill leave you guys to work it out !

ive reduced the torque sir but so happens ive got you a nice fat lot of bhp 
so we can take your money ! lol
now dont psh it hard untill your off the forecourt and ps theirs no warentee lol not things that go together !


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## stehub (Nov 16, 2005)

kevan kemp said:


> now dont psh it hard untill your off the forecourt and ps theirs no warentee lol not things that go together !


does SVM offer warranty ?


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## kevan kemp (Jan 27, 2010)

stehub said:


> does SVM offer warranty ?


all the parts have warranty and we cover all our workmanship
all tuners have a duty of care...


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## R32 GTR R32 GTR (Nov 27, 2009)

Why dont we have a tuner shootout? Get both cars or more if interested on:

a) The Dyno
b) The Drag Strip
c) The Track

Winner takes the plaudits loser shuts up?????


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## kevan kemp (Jan 27, 2010)

we will / they wont says it all !!


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## alloy (Apr 29, 2005)

Do we really care?

As a consumer i like the fact i have choice and i like the fact if i wanted to i could have conversations with all the GTR tuners to find a company that can deliver the work i want to the specification i want. That's the important bit really isn't it? Personally the tuner vs tuner thing deplores all of their credibility as they all get dragged down into a slanging match, that's not good for their business nor for the community is it?

I for example use GTC to cater for my aftermarket products and tuning side of things, in the grand scheme of things as they have worked close with SVM I would more than likely use SVM to do my engine conversion when the time comes (so long as they leave that bloody GTR light off! ) but I will still use Litchfield to do my servicing etc. From where I am sitting the GTR market is fairly niche but with 3 tuners who could do these sort of builds there are enough punters for them to all offer their own different insights and experience and exist in business….


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

alloy said:


> Do we really care?
> 
> As a consumer i like the fact i have choice and i like the fact if i wanted to i could have conversations with all the GTR tuners to find a company that can deliver the work i want to the specification i want. That's the important bit really isn't it? Personally the tuner vs tuner thing deplores all of their credibility as they all get dragged down into a slanging match, that's not good for their business nor for the community is it?
> 
> I for example use GTC to cater for my aftermarket products and tuning side of things, in the grand scheme of things as they have worked close with SVM I would more than likely use SVM to do my engine conversion when the time comes (so long as they leave that bloody GTR light off! ) but I will still use Litchfield to do my servicing etc. From where I am sitting the GTR market is fairly niche but with 3 tuners who could do these sort of builds there are enough punters for them to all offer their own different insights and experience and exist in business….


+1000

I think it's only common courtesy that tuners stay out of each other's threads and don't go out of their way to slag off the opposition.

And no "but he started it, sir!" protests either!


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## R32 GTR R32 GTR (Nov 27, 2009)

or we could just get AMS into the mix


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

David.Yu said:


> +1000
> 
> I think it's only common courtesy that tuners stay out of each other's threads and don't go out of their way to slag off the opposition.
> 
> And no "but he started it, sir!" protests either!


+2000

its why i like nagtroc, all the tuners get on with each other and supply each other bits / advise etc..


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

David.Yu said:


> +1000
> 
> I think it's only common courtesy that tuners stay out of each other's threads and don't go out of their way to slag off the opposition.
> 
> And no "but he started it, sir!" protests either!


I agree with the common courtesy. 

But i for one am glad that there is open discussion about the limitations and methodologies employed by various tuners without censorship. 
I know on two golf forums i used to frequent any negative comment about the sponsors was removed.

I guess if it came to it (and it's not likely) i (or anyone) could start another thread and ask for opinion.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

R32 GTR R32 GTR said:


> or we could just get AMS into the mix


No likely..i've been asking them about their switchable exhaust for over a year and nobody in the UK supplies or even supports (AFAIK)


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Maybe Simon Chorlton, who owns this car, would like to comment on whether he is happy with what he has got? At the end of the day, he would've researched (you'd think) who was going to do the work and would want to be satisfied that it was within safe parameters.

It also depends on what his intended use for the car is, be it track, drag or fast road use. If it's not going near a track or drag strip then it could be a safe build but if it's going to be tested to the limits then it may not. One issue that neither tuner has indicated is what the life expectancy of the tuned engine is likely to be compared to that of a stock engine. If I was paying that kind of money I'd want to know how often the engine was going to get pulled for re-fresh work.

It's all a bit academic really as we can all have our say but it's the person who owns the car who should be ultimately happy with the results.


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## R32 GTR R32 GTR (Nov 27, 2009)

misters3 said:


> No likely..i've been asking them about their switchable exhaust for over a year and nobody in the UK supplies or even supports (AFAIK)


I thought ECC were the UK arm of AMS?


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

baileyconstruct said:


> If you reduce torque then you reduce power (bhp)? Unless you let the car increase its rpm?


If you reduce torque production, yes the power at that specific rpm will be reduced, however by monitoring the power and torque whilst dyno mapping, you can maintain a smooth, wide torque curve and progressive power delivery.





ChuckUK said:


> What sort of warranty would CPR offer if a rod failed on this type of build ?





kevan kemp said:


> ps theirs no warentee lol


As SVM, All manufacturers warranties are passed on to the customers, and our workmanship is, of course, warrantied.






SVM said:


> all powerfull r35s over 750bhp must have rod changes ,





SVM said:


> data all around the world also suggest you have created a ticking time bomb


Again, it's the torque produced to be wary of, not the final power output. The figure of 750hp is a 'danger number' which on the GTR's normal level of build to produce this will produce (unrestricted) a torque of around 730FtLb. We agree this is by far the limit, a fact mirrored by other respected tuners in the world. The below graphs show stock motor turbo upgraded cars by AMS, SPE and Switzer, all with unrestricted torque curves.









AMS PERFORMANCE SR-750HP GTR GRAPH - STOCK RODS









SWITZER PERFORMANCE 750HP GTR GRAPH - STOCK RODS









SP ENGINEERING SPE-750 BUILD GTR GRAPH - STOCK RODS

With a similar level of tune, we are applying our own safe limit of 670FtLb whilst mapping and this can be seen clearly on the graph already posted where the 'hump' of the torque production is tuned out. This torque level is achieved on a stock turbo, stock motor, custom tuned GTR, and is known to be safe. 










This stage 1 turbo upgrade WILL produce in excess of 730FtLb, but as we have said, we won't be exploring these areas on a stock motor. With a built engine, these areas can be explored.

We offer this package at this level of tune as the stock turbos can be exploited to their maximum on a standard motor, building the motor at that level will be an expensive job for little increase. 

We offer proven, safe, no-nonsense tuning packages with only the parts we deem necessary at that level, no hidden extras or 'shiny bits'.. Of course 'shiny bits' are available at customers request and do look nice!



SVM said:


> get out their and prove it




























This vehicle has never seen the open road, it is dyno tuned and goes straight to the circuit, our engineering and mapping is proven.

It is impossible to repeatedly run 970HP and over 800FtLb on the road to any end, by the time any load is placed on the engine you will be doing ridiculous speed and frankly unmappable rates of acceleration. The Dyno allows us to slow each run down and accurately map as it tracks through each load site at whatever speed we like and creating whatever load we like. This vehicle also does a 9.2 second quarter mile in circuit spec on road tyres, the datalogs show the load/stress is low compared to a 25 minute track session.





SVM said:


> ..next time you post rubbish


Please could you note which points you are referring to, we will be happy to explain any queries.





kevan kemp said:


> ...its about bullshit and facts


We use our Dyno as a huge part of our tuning to gather all the facts and data we need to produce a fast, safe car. Monitoring any parameters we want and using our experience to establish safe boundaries.




Benji Linney GTC said:


> +2000
> 
> its why i like nagtroc, all the tuners get on with each other and supply each other bits / advise etc..





We have no wish to fall out with anyone, including yourself and SVM, and from a professional point of view will stay well away, and withdraw, from any 'slagging match'. By posting our factual experiences and by entering into a debate over tuning methodology we hope only to imbibe the forum with a little more technical knowledge... And a good read


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

Interesting stuff. A couple of questions on the "Torque Limiting"

The limiting looks to be quite corse, putting a very choppy effect on the Torque & Power curves relative to a "normal" curve?

Why is this / how is the limiting achieved? Is it boost restiction or timing or something else? 

Do you have any curves showing the boost?


Thanks


Rich


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## alloy (Apr 29, 2005)

Thanks CPR for the above post, i wondered why the torque curve was so notched but that explains it!

As Rich asks, how is this limit achieved?


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Rich-GT said:


> Interesting stuff. A couple of questions on the "Torque Limiting"
> 
> The limiting looks to be quite corse, putting a very choppy effect on the Torque & Power curves relative to a "normal" curve?
> 
> ...



keeping boost smooth and sensible below 1.4bar is good idea as well as reduced smooth ign timing in the higher engine load areas. have seen a number of switzer p800, and other tuner logs with as little as 7-8 degs in mid helps keep engine together in combo with good cooling.

That said a GTR in SA with P800 kit fitted did let go. logs proved no knock, low timing, under 21psi boost and 11.5 afr..... rad, ic, low temp thermo etc

rod jobs should be very popular. have 7 H-beam sets in stock

new cobb stage v300 maps with slightly higher boost over previous maps now have reduced timing low down.


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## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

misters3 said:


> But i for one am glad that there is open discussion about the limitations and methodologies employed by various tuners without censorship.
> I know on two golf forums i used to frequent any negative comment about the sponsors was removed.


in this sort of situation we will only act if a complaint is recieved. Sponsors have a duty to behave properly and the admin team are not a sheild they can hide bad service behind. I'm please to see open discussion on the board, it can only be good for the consumer in the long run.

mook


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## NINEIR0N (Oct 5, 2009)

Is that Simon Chorlton who used to play for Norwich and Bolton???? Or was he Charlton.......Cant remember!


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## kevan kemp (Jan 27, 2010)

so what you basically what doing is tuning a gtr up "charging 14k" and then de tuning it !

nice one...we can get more than that torque from oem turbos lol and you charge howmuch??

nice cups...how many are for r35 tuning ? errrrrr none or have you got your maths wrong? and you make it 770?

you have your way we have ours....im sure you will doing rods shortly ..as all tuners are!
lets just hope its before this one lets loose.

while were on the suject of safety...can you tell , do you leave the front cross member off to reduce the heat dead spot from the tall coolers? 
as air to air coolers req air..seems a bit daft! and another waste!
or have you another graph..but know hard evidence 

edited by admin


i think you have some good sales guys their....with profit only in mind !
id like you now to post the pitures ,that you didnt last time..and tell the truth
dont forget we have the real pics! and i will have my say!

im all for debate, you started off stating our cars are not the bhp they are ok ! your opinion
we have said your 770bhp oem unit will brake with oem rods my opinion

you have won some evo cups..
we have the r35 records...we can beg to differ or carry on?

its back to your maths again...

as said...bull shit and imo you should move on..
and get your gtrs doing the talking not you


i would now like you to agree the bhp on the rollers with f-mans was correct 
and you were just upset and gave the wrong reply
like you did before


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

NINEIR0N said:


> Is that Simon Chorlton who used to play for Norwich and Bolton???? Or was he Charlton.......Cant remember!


April 27, 2008

Simon ChorltonRecommend? (7) RESULTS FOR 2008
Ranking: 94=
Worth: £6m 
Source of wealth: Direct marketing 

Chorlton, 27, heads Crossit Target Marketing, a direct marketing firm in Bridgend that showed £4.2m net assets in 2006-07.


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

am not sure if thats him or not lol


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## andrew186 (May 3, 2010)

lol 14k is pocket change to him then


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Whats with picking on CPR like a bunch of bullies? 

If you think there to expensive then dont use them, if you think there wrong about mapping on a Dyno then again dont use them. However me personally i would not use a tunner who does not have a dyno. 

I have spent alot of money over the years with different tunners (never used CPR tho) and i would not use anyone else now that does not have a inhouse dyno or rents one to map a car, i have seen the difference myself with just how much better a car can be mapped on a dyno. Just the safety aspect of it if nothing else. But that is my personal preference. 

I dont see why people have to come on here and slate them when they have done nothing wrong to you.


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

Christ is all of this tuner willy waving crap still carrying on - i thought all of that had finished years ago .........


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

trackday addict said:


> Christ is all of this tuner willy waving crap still carrying on - i thought all of that had finished years ago .........


LOL, ye it finished years ago for the 32/33/34 tuners. 

We have a new breed of tuners now tho with the R35. So guess this can be expected for the next few years. :chairshot


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

mattysupra said:


> Whats with picking on CPR like a bunch of bullies?
> 
> If you think there to expensive then dont use them, if you think there wrong about mapping on a Dyno then again dont use them. However me personally i would not use a tunner who does not have a dyno.
> 
> ...


actually they came on a post we did an slagged the bhp results "why"
he who casts the first stone
we have spent hrs of hard work getting our results cpr wasnt at the meet and had no idea what happend

as for rolling roads...r35s hate them and you can do more damage than good

i believe in being fair...they should keep their noises out next time(without the full facts)
or come and join all the members and have a propper shoot out as we did.


over the years most tuners say they have resricted power because their cant "get power" (safely)
to my knowledge cpr has not built ANY major r35 builds
so ask them why ridicule a svm record breaking cars?
10.3 9.84 9.67 alll svm cars all 850 or more bhp and as important in my book all over 800llbs ft torque

as someone said most yanks congratulate each other
in the uk we still stick the knife in 

what will be will be kk


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

SVM said:


> as someone said most yanks congratulate each other
> in the uk we still stick the knife in


Sadly, true.

This attitude of resenting success seems to be bred into British people. It's rare to hear someone congratulating you for doing well, it's nearly always negative. That's why lots of us have crappy daily drivers and get the GTR out at the weekend so that the miserable ****ers have less to moan about.


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## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Sadly, true.
> 
> This attitude of resenting success seems to be bred into British people. It's rare to hear someone congratulating you for doing well, it's nearly always negative. That's why lots of us have crappy daily drivers and get the GTR out at the weekend so that the miserable ****ers have less to moan about.


Good Point. I blame the government for generation after generation of suppression by aristocratic pillocks. :chairshot

On a brighter note, Im through worrying about what other people think, thats why my daily driver will be as socially unacceptable as possible  lol

KK For Prime Minister! :clap:


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

mattysupra said:


> Whats with picking on CPR like a bunch of bullies?
> 
> If you think there to expensive then dont use them, if you think there wrong about mapping on a Dyno then again dont use them. However me personally i would not use a tunner who does not have a dyno.
> 
> ...


There seems to be two opposition groups forming here, not coming to an agreement on how the tuning procedure should be carried out, which could be very confusing for customers who are seeking to tune their 35's, no disrespect to either of the tuners, but it's certainly unprofessional to be engaging in a slanging match and act of bullying (as you put it). I think the tuner's agreement about certain ideas and tuning methods is what's needed to give other individuals the confidence as to determining what route to take.


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

Unnecessary discussions on this thread. Choice is out there for all.

If any of those involved want this thread removed, let us know.


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