# Third time's a charm



## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

with all parts finally in early this week, we've gotten right down to it to build my R32, and hopefully, do it right this time.

today, the head got finished. The GT2860R-5s and the Tomei elbows look gorgeous - no more mucking about with stock turbos, I've got a proper set now! Tomei Poncams, Type B (260in/260ex, 9.15mm lift) went in, and all 24 valve clearances are dead on:









The NTK titania narrowband O2 sensors (3 wire, 12mm) I bought new for $20 each on eBay screwed right into the Tomei elbows no problem.









Is it really necessary to use the heat shields? How about that heat tape that looks like everything's been mummified?

I'm looking at the exhaust manifolds, and I just noticed - what are those things in the #1 and #4 runners? Looks like an EGT temp probe could be mounted in there...?

Also, one slightly irksome point - they reused the exhaust gaskets instead of the fresh Tomei units I supplied them with. They said they were in fine shape and could be used again. The reused gaskets are Nissan OEM with 2000km on them. Should I insist they take apart the exhaust side and put in the Tomeis, or am I just being overanal? New Tomei metal gaskets did go on the intake plenum and throttle bodies.

The block is back from the machinist, so that'll come together over the weekend. Will post pics as they happen


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## bkvj (Feb 13, 2006)

nice!


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## andreasgtr (Jul 2, 2003)

I´d suggest to use the heatshield or take heat wrap of a recommended company, I´ve seen several elbows that fried the heat wrap. Without any heat protection your hood paint might get bubbles.

BTW:great job! I hope you have more luck this time.


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

The lugs you want to put EGT probes into are mounting points for the OEM heatshields - you could try putting a thermocouple in them though! LoL

Reused std exhaust gaskets - absolutely NOT!

Heatshields YES!


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## r33 v-spec (May 24, 2002)

Seems to be coming along nicely. Best of luck this time...

The gaskets may have been in good shape, but would you really want to skimp on them at this "point" when its much easier to take off the turbos now, and replace them, than when its in the car, and gives problems later on. Leaking exhaust gaskets are never good, so why not use the new ones now, and job done. Just my opinion..


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

I agree. Looks beautiful, however I would have them take it apart and put the metal ones in. You bought them for a reason. No point in spending 13K to skimp out on a $50 part.


-Sayajin


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

yep, I was utterly baffled why they would not only use OEM gaskets when I had a Tomei intake/exhaust set sitting right there, but *reuse* OEM gaskets. Doesn't make sense to me.


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Sorry to say it, but be an ass. INSIST they use the Tomei ones. I know I plan to.

Unfortunate, but it seems I will be following in your footsteps.


-Sayajin


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I just did - they're taking the exhaust side apart and redoing it. I'm in there every day checking up on the little things...I'm sure I can just wait, but then there will be things that don't get done or will be done in a way I didn't specify. Anal, but it's not just a car, it's a passion. And...a shitload of money!!!


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

Are these boys going to be mapping it as well?


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## sexy gtr (Jul 17, 2005)

well done keep the pic's coming 
nothing like a good set of engine build pictures to get you ready for the weekend


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

ExScoobyT said:


> Are these boys going to be mapping it as well?


I hired a well-known Japanese tuner to fly in and spend two days with my car on a dynojet. hopefully, he won't expect me to kick in some "room salon" action....


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

well, today saw the Tomei exhaust gaskets go in and the OEMs in the garbage. The knock sensors (brand new Nissan OEM) were put in and we found that a lot of the in situ wiring was crap, like it was done by a four-year old. It's very clear that I got shafted with my last rebuild - which was a hurried installation with an old, beat-up, $1000 long block.

anyways, the oil pan with new Tomei baffle:









I swear, these turbos are positively pornographic...









a couple of the assembled longblock:

















bearing clearances were dead on, a bit on the tight side, but within spec:









stock rods, ARP bolts, new Tomei conrod bearings and a pic of the underside of the 87mm HKS pistons. A quick check on Wikipedia showed why the tops of these pistons are dipped in nickel, and the top ring is molybdenum - the melting point nickel is significantly higher than aluminum, and moly, even higher still. Not invincible, but definitely tougher than the average article:









some of the stuff left to go in - and after the engine's done, there's a lot of gauge fitting to be done to the interior of the car, plus the biamped MB Quarts, Pioneer 10" subs, and twin Polk amps


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Looks like it is coming along nicely...

-Sayajin


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

here's the car, ready for the engine. Aching for it, really.
















will be rolling that roller in just a matter of days:








and the engine is complete:

































next up: interior

a couple notes: didn't take a picture, but the Nismo coppermix twinplate clutchplates literally look brand new, and although only 2000km were logged on them, I wasn't shy about abusing it. Bodes well for the future.

Literally had a dream last night when I had a turbo and exhaust manifold failure due to the probe breaking off. Got weird when the car caught on fire and other bizarre things like screaming, burning kittens leaping out of the engine bay. Changed my mind at the last second today and put the probe in the rear elbow, can be spotted in the above pictures. And there we go.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)




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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

959 in the background is just 80's lush


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

engine went in this morning, now just a bunch of connecting, and then the wiring inside the car, and then we're ready to roll!


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Apexi suction kit and Z32 AFMs installed. Carbon canister chucked to make room for the 150psi water/alcohol injection pump:









intake side - stock fuel rail, Sard 700cc injectors, Nismo FPR, to be set at 2.8bar at idle:









The exhaust - the monster Mines downpipe, decat, and Apexi N1 catback. Very big!









starting in on the interior: Apexi gauges, permanent wideband lambda install, little odds and ends and Momo four-point seat belt:









intial engine run and Power FC setup scheduled for tomorrow afternoon....excited and nervous at the same time....


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## roadie (Feb 6, 2006)

Any reason why you did not go crazy detailing/painting/chroming the engine and bay while it was out ??? 
Looking forward to some numbers


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Wow mate, looking good. You deserve a medal for your patience and perseverance. Lots of good work happening thee. I do think you did the right think in getting a Japanese tuner to come and map it given the problems you've had in the past. 
Hats off to you mate........looking forward to some updates as I'm going for these turbo's sometime soon.

Scott


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I did, but I went very subtle...fresh black paint on the engine cover bits, chromed the intake plenum and twin turbo pipe. In the sunlight, it should stand out a little more. I wanted a very fresh and clean looking engine bay without being too obviously tuned.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Looking good just keep the boost down this time!!!

Mick


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I picked the GT2860-5 turbos because I'd like to run 1.6 bar (scramble) and 1.2~1.4 normally. I think this is well within the turbo's capabilities. The base tune will have to be solid before we start edging up the boost. The water/meth injection should help keep things cool on high boost, but we will have to map for it.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Good luck man, its looking good. 

All the best, i would have replaced all that stock rubber with black silicone samco tubing of something like that, looks stock but just adds a little extra eye-sex to it 

maybe later get it going man looks great!!


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Go on, I have to ask. What I/C have you got in there? Not stock I hope. With all that extra you may also want to think about a radiator upgrade too!
DaveG


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Sorry to Hijack, but I take it, judging be the width, (lack off), that is a 911 in the back ground?




kismetcapitan said:


>


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nope, its a 959 as per my previous post


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

original 959, less than 2000km on the odometer. a total waste that it's never been really driven...


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## daytona (Jun 28, 2005)

Looking good:clap: got to admire your determination:thumbsup:


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## kaneda (Oct 9, 2004)

kismetcapitan said:


> stock rods, ARP bolts, new Tomei conrod bearings and a pic of the underside of the 87mm HKS pistons.


I have a dumb question:

Why is it that I seem to see so many owners building or having their motors built and keeping stock connecting rods? If you're going to go through the effort of having the block machined, everything balanced, buying new pistons, etc; why not just spend the money for new rods while the motor is apart? It would save you time and money if you ever have aspirations for more power. Even if you're not trying to make 800 hp you still have a lighter rotating assembly and the peace of mind that your bottom end is a little more stout. If you're already spending $13K on all this $700-$1300 isn't a whole lot more to add.



kismetcapitan said:


> Got weird when the car caught on fire and other bizarre things like screaming, burning kittens leaping out of the engine bay.


You might need to seek proffesional help about that kind of thing. That's not normal...  :chuckle:


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

kaneda said:


> I have a dumb question:
> 
> Why is it that I seem to see so many owners building or having their motors built and keeping stock connecting rods? If you're going to go through the effort of having the block machined, everything balanced, buying new pistons, etc; why not just spend the money for new rods while the motor is apart? It would save you time and money if you ever have aspirations for more power. Even if you're not trying to make 800 hp you still have a lighter rotating assembly and the peace of mind that your bottom end is a little more stout. If you're already spending $13K on all this $700-$1300 isn't a whole lot more to add.


While I agree to some extent, it depends on your power goals. Believe it or not the stock rods are good for 600+AWHP. So if you are not shooting for anything higher then that, you dont need upgraded ones. 

Now of course most people always want more power then they have, so it makes sense to upgrade them all at the same time, but still.

Really comes down to what each owner wants from his vehicle as far as long term power goals. It does appear to be a common thing however. My assumption would be most shops dont adamantly recommend it.


-Sayajin


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I've asked around quite a bit, and I've yet to hear of a single person breaking a stock RB26 conrod. bearings have spun, people break conrods on other cars, etc. But no broken rods. So I just upgraded the bolts (Tomei branded ARP bolts) as the stock bolts theoretically can "stretch" and hence break or cause other badness. THese is at least one opinion out there that says that even ARP bolts are overkill and unnecessary.

One thing is for certain though - every moving surface that moves against another surface, that I was able to replace, I did. So it's more or less a new engine and I'll have to break it in as such.

I've got 90% of the guts to do the 20 mile run-it-hard method. But still 10% chicken. No doubt about it though, I want my rings sealed TIGHT; I don't want any blow-by in my cylinders.


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

Did you drill out the sump oil return holes when you fitted the Tomei baffle


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

paul cawson said:


> Did you drill out the sump oil return holes when you fitted the Tomei baffle


if doing so was in the instructions, then yes, it was done. I can't read Japanese, but one of the mechanics can.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

lots done today:

never thought I'd see this beautiful clutch so soon after putting it in 









transmission going in. I just threw in some Hyundai OEM tranny oil, as 10 quarts of Redline Heavy shockproof will arrive soon from the States:









I almost ordered these driveshaft braces from HKS Kansai...good thing I didn't - I already have them!









I noticed that the rear antisway bar has this space between the bar and the arm - what's up with that?









undercarriage stuff:
Mines rear coilovers - would be nice if the height could be adjusted without disassembling them!









front Teins and Endless brake pads









with the pillowball tension rods, a Cusco tension rod brace









and...we ran the engine, and it sounded wonderful, oh so wonderful! The Tomei Type B Poncams do give a bit of a lumpy sound at idle. Macbook (running Windows and FC-Datalogit) talking to the Power FC, logging and setting basic functions and a base map to start with (from a 2530/95RON RB26). Lotsa gauges peppering the interior now - don't want to be blind to any engine parameter.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

some images that explain the obsession...



























Tomorrow, the engine will run on idle for 12-14 hours. Thursday, it's straight onto the dyno for three sets of three 4th gear pulls, then fine-tuning the map with 秘密. After that, the crap mineral oil goes out, Motul 300V 15W-50 goes in. Or should I run 3000km on the road on mineral oil before putting in the synthetic?


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Now here is something I never understood.....

I notice in your earlier post you spoke of breaking in the engine. You also said you may even use the run it hard method.

Well then why take it to a dyno to have the shit beat out of it before it is broken in?

I have seen numerous people do this, and I never understood it. Does the motor need to be broken in or not?

-Sayajin


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

*FINAL BUILD LIST*

*engine/drivetrain*
-R32 block bored to 87mm, R33 head, R33 crankshaft
-Garrett GT2860R-5 twin turbos
-Tomei Poncams Type B, 260in/260ex 9.15mm lift
-Coolingmist water/alcohol injection system, 150psi
-HKS 87mm forged pistons with nickel plating and molybdenum rings
-N1 oil pump
-N1 water pump
-Tomei metal intake and exhaust gaskets
-Tomei oil restrictor
-Nismo GT 1.2mm metal head gasket
-Denso 700cc injectors
-Nissan Z32 80mm air flow meters (x2)
-NTK Titania narrowband lambda O2 sensors (x2)
-Nissan knock sensors (x2)
-Apexi Grade 8 iridium racing spark plugs
-Apexi 80mm Super Suction intake kit
-Apexi fuel pump
-Tomei oil baffle plate
-Nismo fuel regulator
-Nismo Super Coppermix twinplate clutch
-Nismo steel braided clutch hose
-Nismo hardened clutch pivot
-Nismo lightweight flywheel
-Nismo engine/transmission mounts
-Power Enterprise black crankshaft bearings
-Tomei conrod bearings
-Tomei conrod bolts
-OS Giken transmission (1-3) short gear kit
-Nismo solid shifter
-Cusco master cylinder brace
-Nismo braided brake lines
-Endless Super Sports M brake pads

*exhaust*
-Tomei stainless steel turbo elbows (x2)
-Mines 4" downpipe
-decat pipe
-Apexi N1 4" catback


*engine management/onboard computers*
-Apexi Power FC
-FC-Datalogit USB interface
-Apexi turbo timer
-Bee*R Power Builder
-Macbook computer


*sensors and gauges*
-Apexi Power FC Commander
-Apexi EL2 gauge controller
-Apexi 60mm boost gauge
-Apexi 60mm oil temperature gauge
-Apexi 60mm oil pressure gauge
-Apexi 60mm exhaust gas temperature gauge
-Apexi 60mm fuel pressure gauge
-Apexi shift lamp
-Apexi RSM rev/speed computer (black limited edition)
-FC-Datalogit scramble boost switch
-NTK wideband lambda O2 sensor/Powerdex dash gauge
-Nismo 260kph speedometer


*wheels/suspension*
-Nismo LM-GT2 splitrim 17x9", 255/40R17 Kumho Ecsta SPT tires
-Tein coilovers (front)
-Mines/Ohlins coilovers (rear)
-HICAS elimination bar
-Tein pillowball front tension rods
-Cusco front tension rod brace
-Cusco front and rear strut tower braces
-HKS Kansai aluminum crossmember bushings
-HKS Kansai driveshaft braces


*extras*
-Raybrig 7000K HID system
-N1 headlamps
-Momo 350mm steering wheel,shift knob, and e-brake handle
-Momo 4 point seat harness
-Cusco drift e-brake spin knob
-Trust rear skirts


*sound system*
-MB Quart PCE-216 6.5" component speakers (front)
-Premier TS-SW1041D 10" subwoofers (x2)
-Polk/Momo C400.4 amp
-Polk/Momo C300.2 amp
-Premier DEH-P980BT head unit


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Sayajin said:


> Now here is something I never understood.....
> 
> I notice in your earlier post you spoke of breaking in the engine. You also said you may even use the run it hard method.
> 
> ...


the dyno *is* the run-it-hard method. In fact, there are explicit dyno run-in instructions here: click

so the first sets of pulls will be for running in the engine, and obviously logging and adjusting the map. Then we may do some pulls just for numbers, although I'm really not interested in dyno numbers, but street numbers.


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

kismetcapitan said:


> the dyno *is* the run-it-hard method. In fact, there are explicit dyno run-in instructions here: click
> 
> so the first sets of pulls will be for running in the engine, and obviously logging and adjusting the map. Then we may do some pulls just for numbers, although I'm really not interested in dyno numbers, but street numbers.


Got ya! Makes sense now.... I do remember seeing a dyno run in method now that you mention it.

So is it safe to assume that is what most people do who rebuild an engine and go straight to the dyno?


btw, Kisime you are a bad influence... whenever I see your build I always see something you have that I want... I was planning on just doing Tien Mono Flex Coilovers and sway bars. Now I see all you suspension and I want to get more... that plus a few other goodies.... bastard. lol.

-Sayajin


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## rasonline (Mar 24, 2005)

Scott said:


> Sorry to Hijack, but I take it, judging be the width, (lack off), that is a 911 in the back ground?


WHAT ARE YOU FOR REAL??

Don't you know what that is?

Porsche 959. Freaking legend.


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## Swobber (Oct 8, 2006)

kismetcapitan said:


> Tomorrow, the engine will run on idle for 12-14 hours.


Fitting a new lambda sensor after that?

I was talking with some of my teachers about long idle at school (For Mechanics - Damn im tired of messuring ECU's on standard cars and engines!), and I've been told by all of them, that its not recommended to run longer that 10 minutes of idle at cold engine, and 20 minutes with a warm engine - Then you have to raise the engine speed to around 2000rpm for a moment, then 2500rpm and back to 2000rpm - This is done to prevent the lambda sensor getting full of carbon.
It will make the lambda sensor work slow after some time, and finaly it stop working completely.
Now I dont know about you - but I'd be happy to save the cost of a new sensor, and buy something else - More fuel for example :thumbsup: 

I've seen lambda sensors die after just 5000km because people let their car idle for half an hour every morning, and just to go some 5-10km for work.

Its all up to you, but I know how I'd handle this situation.

/Swobber


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

the wideband bung is in, but not the sensor itself. We won't put it in until mapping starts.


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

kismetcapitan said:


> Tomorrow, the engine will run on idle for 12-14 hours.


Why the idling for sooooooo long??   

Asim..


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

*WHY ON EARTH IDLE FOR SO LONG?*

Rings and blocks only have a window of a certain time to bed in, idling for this long will assure that you NEVER get good ring seal. The rings need to see various rev's and loads so that they are worked properly and scrub the bores to get a good seal.

It kills me to let a freshly built motor idle for 5-10 mins to get up to temperature on the ramp so i can fully check it over. The rings need to see some load (but not a lot) ASAP.


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## MartinC (Jan 1, 2006)

Have to agree with cord on this one, leaving at idle for this long is no good for any engine, let alone a freshly built one.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

so would you go with this prescription??

on the dynojet:
after warmup, in 4th gear,
-do three 1/2 throttle dyno runs from 3200 to 4800rpm
-cool down

-do three 3/4 throttle dyno runs from 3200 to 6400rpm
-cool down

-do three full throttle dyno runs from 3200 to 8000rpm
-cool down

done? that's it? change oil to synthetic (Motul 300V) and call it good??


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Jap guys shows up. What a fecking disaster. What's the point if you can't communicate with each other? Damn near got carsick on the onroad mapping session, which ended in fouled plugs. The Splitfire coilpacks were misfiring on boost, as my NGK Iridiums are gapped to only 0.8mm. I did adjust the ignition dwell on the Power FC for Splitfires, but all the miscommunication in the car and three languages being thrown around, and the Jap tuner apparent scared to death of Korean gas, and we fouled the plugs and the Korean mechanic flooded the engine trying to restart the thing.

I've GOT to learn mapping - there's no ****ing way I'm going to go through this again, with some "expert" who doesn't speak English.

Anyways, tomorrow it's the dyno. what fun.


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

Scared of Korean fuel? Was he wearing det cans through all this?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

no det cans in the car but we'll have them in the dyno room. I don't know what anyone was thinking - just hop into the car with a laptop and go? Start pig-rich and foul the plugs? And I have no idea why Splitfires are "so great", or worth the $500 they cost. We'll see after the plugs have been gapped down to 0.6mm.

btw, a giant wideband AFR display now resides where the clock was. Don't need to know the time as much as I need to know the AFR! (analog out goes to Datalogit for logging and map tracing).


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## roadie (Feb 6, 2006)

Excuse me Capitan.....you forgot to put a dollar total at the bottom of this!!!!:thumbsup: 


FINAL BUILD LIST

engine/drivetrain
-R32 block bored to 87mm, R33 head, R33 crankshaft
-Garrett GT2860R-5 twin turbos
-Tomei Poncams Type B, 260in/260ex 9.15mm lift
-Coolingmist water/alcohol injection system, 150psi
-HKS 87mm forged pistons with nickel plating and molybdenum rings
-N1 oil pump
-N1 water pump
-Tomei metal intake and exhaust gaskets
-Tomei oil restrictor
-Nismo GT 1.2mm metal head gasket
-Denso 700cc injectors
-Nissan Z32 80mm air flow meters (x2)
-NTK Titania narrowband lambda O2 sensors (x2)
-Nissan knock sensors (x2)
-Apexi Grade 8 iridium racing spark plugs
-Apexi 80mm Super Suction intake kit
-Apexi fuel pump
-Tomei oil baffle plate
-Nismo fuel regulator
-Nismo Super Coppermix twinplate clutch
-Nismo steel braided clutch hose
-Nismo hardened clutch pivot
-Nismo lightweight flywheel
-Nismo engine/transmission mounts
-Power Enterprise black crankshaft bearings
-Tomei conrod bearings
-Tomei conrod bolts
-OS Giken transmission (1-3) short gear kit
-Nismo solid shifter
-Cusco master cylinder brace
-Nismo braided brake lines
-Endless Super Sports M brake pads

exhaust
-Tomei stainless steel turbo elbows (x2)
-Mines 4" downpipe
-decat pipe
-Apexi N1 4" catback


engine management/onboard computers
-Apexi Power FC
-FC-Datalogit USB interface
-Apexi turbo timer
-Bee*R Power Builder
-Macbook computer


sensors and gauges
-Apexi Power FC Commander
-Apexi EL2 gauge controller
-Apexi 60mm boost gauge
-Apexi 60mm oil temperature gauge
-Apexi 60mm oil pressure gauge
-Apexi 60mm exhaust gas temperature gauge
-Apexi 60mm fuel pressure gauge
-Apexi shift lamp
-Apexi RSM rev/speed computer (black limited edition)
-FC-Datalogit scramble boost switch
-NTK wideband lambda O2 sensor/Powerdex dash gauge
-Nismo 260kph speedometer


wheels/suspension
-Nismo LM-GT2 splitrim 17x9", 255/40R17 Kumho Ecsta SPT tires
-Tein coilovers (front)
-Mines/Ohlins coilovers (rear)
-HICAS elimination bar
-Tein pillowball front tension rods
-Cusco front tension rod brace
-Cusco front and rear strut tower braces
-HKS Kansai aluminum crossmember bushings
-HKS Kansai driveshaft braces


extras
-Raybrig 7000K HID system
-N1 headlamps
-Momo 350mm steering wheel,shift knob, and e-brake handle
-Momo 4 point seat harness
-Cusco drift e-brake spin knob
-Trust rear skirts


sound system
-MB Quart PCE-216 6.5" component speakers (front)
-Premier TS-SW1041D 10" subwoofers (x2)
-Polk/Momo C400.4 amp
-Polk/Momo C300.2 amp
-Premier DEH-P980BT head unit


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

Out on the road, new engine, potenital issues with fuel quality and no det cans, WTF?

Now I am assuming that you didn`t `rag it`, but as mentioned before, part throttle accels with boost can be worse than full load (for knock)..........


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

ExScoobyT said:


> Out on the road, new engine, potenital issues with fuel quality and no det cans, WTF?
> 
> Now I am assuming that you didn`t `rag it`, but as mentioned before, part throttle accels with boost can be worse than full load (for knock)..........


Korean fuel is 100RON. He's Japanese. For all I know, he probably thinks Koreans boost octane by pissing in their gas. No det cans. He's from a well-known tuning house, and is rather arrogant to be honest. He just sat in the back seat barking instructions.

And we're not pushing the car. He, as well as three other Japanese tuners I emailed and asked, universally said that the way to break in a Skyline is gently. I spent some time trying to explain bedding in, then gave up. I did get out of this langauge mess that the machine shop did not use an ultrafine grit for the hone. So there's some leeway here.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

haha that long build list and its a shame about the tuner. I mean you cant fault him for being japanese, didnt you ask before you got him sent over if he spoke English? haha you should paid someone from the UK to do it! 


Anyway, all the best. i really hope you get this sorted man, you seem to have spent lots on this project.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

439.13 RWHP, wastegates are stuck open. getting them sorted now, then going to run a few more pulls. no real det so far, ignition is mapped conservatively, but AFRs are normal, only down to 12:1 at full throttle. 2860-5s made about 1 bar with the wastegates wide open (done that way for initial dyno mapping, but now they won't shut!)

I solved the language issue - just let him do EVERYTHING!


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

boost control issues resolved. 496.37 RWHP at 1.5bar. That's good enough for me - I was originally thinking of 1.6 bar but why push it?


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

kismetcapitan said:


> boost control issues resolved. 496.37 RWHP at 1.5bar. That's good enough for me - I was originally thinking of 1.6 bar but why push it?


Go for it... you should try 2bar :chuckle: 

sorry... just had to... 

Thats some good numbers mate 
How much torque??

Asim...


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

roadie said:


> Excuse me Capitan.....you forgot to put a dollar total at the bottom of this!!!!:thumbsup:




I absolutely DONT want to know!!


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Asim R32GTR said:


> Go for it... you should try 2bar :chuckle:
> 
> sorry... just had to...
> 
> ...



torque is 55.16Kg/m....being American, I have no idea if that's good or not - doesn't anyone use foot-pounds anymore?? It peaks just after 5K rpm and remains flat to 7K.


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

kismetcapitan said:


> torque is 55.16Kg/m....being American, I have no idea if that's good or not - doesn't anyone use foot-pounds anymore?? It peaks just after 5K rpm and remains flat to 7K.


wow, thats a lot of torque at the wheels 
If i have done the conversion right, it will be around 406 foot-pounds.


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## David (Apr 25, 2003)

kismetcapitan said:


> boost control issues resolved. 496.37 RWHP at 1.5bar. That's good enough for me - I was originally thinking of 1.6 bar but why push it?


Go on try 1.6

Really good results :bowdown1:


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## ChristianR (May 31, 2005)

go for 2bar!


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## NickM (Oct 25, 2003)

That's 399 lbft.

Think it's a wise move letting him do everything, that's why you're paying him


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## roadie (Feb 6, 2006)

I'm interested to hear how she feels on the road.....


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

to sum up the day:

here's the engine 9am sharp this morning, won't start due to severely fouled plugs. A perfect storm of rich map, misfiring, and to add insult to injury, a popped intercooler pipe.









got that sorted, then it was into the basement onto the dyno









setting idle. got rid of that damned clock and replaced it with something a little more germane to GT-R driving









kinda like university - you spend a fortune, and all you get at the end is some piece of paper  The A/F curve is quite useful, shows that the map is pretty on target. This is what the Japanese guy did. He first set injector compensation by setting idle rpm and the injectors rich (about 65 for 700cc Sards), which caused the idle to run fast. He then leaned (reducing the percentage and trimming the lag times) things out until set RPM matched actual. Then it was the fuel map, pulling out fuel until he got stoich at idle. He did virtually nothing with ignition - loading a stock map he had, tweaking the idle cells a bit, then didn't touch it. We had the permanent installed lambda right behind the decat pipe, as well as one stuck into the tailpipe. I calibrated my car's lambda by unscrewing it out of the bung, turning the ignition on, and letting it hang in the air while the guys were out for lunch. A simple turn of a knob until the readout said "CAL" and we were good to go. Then the big pulls. Wonderful sounds! All the air being sucked in and out, it's like a jet airplane. The next time I'm on a dyno, I'm bringing my pro recording mics and recording the sound via Pro Tools.









a nice lineup outside - 959, 911GT, BNCR33 (awaiting T88 installation) - while my car had some finishing touches done to it (braided brake lines, rear ball joints, alignment, oil change - Motul 300V 15W50) 









after 11 long hours, and myself now reeking of gasoline and head pounding from CO, NO, and god knows what other crap my car spews out, it being completely devoid of any emissions control (including that charcoal canister, which was removed), my car joins some splendid company 









Tomorrow I'll take her home, driving her for the first time. I could have tonight, but I simply did not have the energy to deal with taking delivery of what is, well, my old car, but really, an entirely new car. It's time for bed, then I'll pick her up tomorrow. Road testing will come gradually. Surprisingly, I'm not chafing at the bit to get my car. This time around, the fun, the obsession, was really in the build and tune. I feel catharsis more than anything else, more of an ending than a beginning.


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Well done feller, first hurdle over!

Comments - change the front plate, you are shielding the I/C, can you put a smaller one on or get a stick on one fitted to the front splitter? Also fit a couple of NISMO vents to front bumper - it really is worth maximising airflow through I/C, plus rad since you seem to be running a standard one.
You could have done with a graph of AFR verses Revs, also be careful if you run sustained high boost as that graph never even goes close to 12:1 let alone below it - compared to here that is definitely on the lean side.

DaveG


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## MartinC (Jan 1, 2006)

I have to agree, lose the number plate. Hats off to the guys that built the motor, it looks lovely in there, black engine with silver plenium(sp?) and pipework each side. Just surprised you didn't go for the full hardpipe kit, it looks just so hardcore.

You seem to have such a passion for this car, now please go and enjoy it once its fully run-in and mapped and forget the stress/cost.


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

Is it just me, og does this chart show that the AF is 12.5 at full power???


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

why, is that particularly lean?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I guess 11:1 would be better, but the tuner was ecstatic about the AFR results.


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

kismetcapitan said:


> why, is that particularly lean?


it is a bit on the lean side.
Did you measure exhaust temps?? how much did it show??

Asim...


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

`Did you measure exhaust temps??` - Oh dear.........


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

ExScoobyT said:


> `Did you measure exhaust temps??` - Oh dear.........





Are you saying that 12.5 / 13 is a good afr?? and that measuring exhaust temp is a bad idea??


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Lean generally finds more power, however it also brings higher EGT. The Japanese tend to how shall we say, push the boundary on AFR and risk the high end EGT. You can run the high end EGT safely with quality pistons in there, however the whole point is to keep around say 900 degrees, peaking near a 1000 when you really push it. These are values at the turbo, not at the cat! With good pistons etc. you can chance even higher, but that is exactly what you are doing, chancing a melt down if you sustain it too long.
For safety the UK tuners will typically go 11.5/11, possibly even down toward 10 for very high boost use (thats 2Bar plus).

It would probably be a good idea to monitor you EGT's for safety.


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

ATCO said:


> Lean generally finds more power, however it also brings higher EGT. The Japanese tend to how shall we say, push the boundary on AFR and risk the high end EGT. You can run the high end EGT safely with quality pistons in there, however the whole point is to keep around say 900 degrees, peaking near a 1000 when you really push it. These are values at the turbo, not at the cat! With good pistons etc. you can chance even higher, but that is exactly what you are doing, chancing a melt down if you sustain it too long.
> For safety the UK tuners will typically go 11.5/11, possibly even down toward 10 for very high boost use (thats 2Bar plus).
> 
> It would probably be a good idea to monitor you EGT's for safety.


My point exactly.... thank you 

Asim...


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## kennyc (Aug 25, 2005)

Whats todays update Captain?


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

....my point was with regard to the to-and-fro discussion on where the EGT was to be placed. I believe Toby put it after the turbine in the elbow, thus rendering it completely useless in the discussion that is about to follow........from my experience 12.5:1 at 1.5bar @ 7500rpm WILL result in a dead piston / head / valve at some point.......


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

ExScoobyT said:


> ....my point was with regard to the to-and-fro discussion on where the EGT was to be placed. I believe Toby put it after the turbine in the elbow, thus rendering it completely useless in the discussion that is about to follow........from my experience 12.5:1 at 1.5bar @ 7500rpm WILL result in a dead piston / head / valve at some point.......


He did put it in the rear turbomanifold...



> so this is where the EGT bung will be welded in - will it compromise structural integrity of the exhaust manifold? According to the Apexi install guide, the tip of the probe extends in a few millimeters. Boy, hope that tip doesn't ever break off....


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

Toby?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

EGT peaked at 700 degrees on the dyno, according to the peak record of the Apexi EL2 control unit. They didn't give the car much rest, just a lot of pulls one after another. It IS in the turbo elbow, a couple inches past the turbo. Fire away...if it's so useless there, then why did Nissan put it there in the BNR34? I've heard the 900 degree limit kicked around by R34 owners.

ignition amp started acting up. not sure if the plugs fouled again. have a set of HKS-branded plugs gapped to 0.6mm to throw in just in case they are fouled, just so I can get on the road again. The R32s habit of misfiring is getting to be very irritating. very.

I'm not sure how much to believe the wideband lambda. It has been calibrated twice in free air - the second required no change to the calibration knob. It's kind of all over, and because it's in real time, one could go nuts adjusting fuelling based on that meter. I'm going to do some map traces, and look at the injection map. I may very well richen the WOT parts of the map, the "lasso loop" as I like to think of the trace.

I also need to get my injectors bench tested for actual flow. They can't be 700cc (Sard/Denso) - when the PFC is set for 700cc, things run far too rich, ridiculously so. Fuel pressure is 2.8bar at idle. I know because I've got the gauge on the A-pillar 

Boost is set at 1.2bar, although that graph is at 1.5bar, redline at 7000rpm. I didn't do any real hard driving today. One pull though to confirm that the car is, for all practical terms, extremely fast for a street car.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Get rid of the 0.6 plug gap mate.
0.8 you need


Also how many miles have you done running the car back in????


Mick


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

m6beg said:


> Get rid of the 0.6 plug gap mate.
> 0.8 you need
> 
> 
> ...


the Splitfire coilpacks don't seem to get on well with 0.8mm gap - going to 0.6mm cured misfiring on boost, but with running the car off boost today and at low rpm - driving very, very gently, cold grade 8 plugs, 0.6 gap - I think I fouled the plugs up something awful. Took everything apart only to realize I've lost my spark plug socket. Heading into the shop first thing tomorrow morning. I have my original coilpacks. I may need them.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

just did some research, will open the gap back up to 0.8mm. I brought this upon myself. I drove 100 miles today, about 99 of it under 40 miles an hour, very slow, stop and go, idling mostly in traffic, and accelerating very, very slowly, under vacuum, as the missus, angry as hell over how much the rebuild/upgrade cost, would glare at me when some space would open up and I could give it some gas.

Not the way to drive heat range 8 plugs!


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

....


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## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

I may get flamed for this...

I'm not so convinced on the jap guys tuning methods, way to lean IMHO and you keep mentioning fouling plugs..? wtf is that all about?

On the flip side, it must be nice to enjoy the car being quick again.

Rob

p.s. just for good measure, i wouldnt put hks plugs in my lawnmower


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## MidNite-D (Jul 4, 2006)

K.C. I hope you get it sorted soon, I have been following your saga for ages now , from the " I wonder what will happen if I run it at 2 Bar"  , through the pain and agony of the meltdown :bawling: , to the joy and elation of having all your new bits fitted :clap: :clap: :clap: . I hope you get the final tweaks sorted so you can enjoy your ride as its meant to be enjoyed .

Plus I'm getting the same turbo's as you have so I want you to tell me how good they are :thumbsup: 

MidNite


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## SIHethers (Feb 1, 2006)

Toby

If you're fouling plugs with load AFR's leaner than 12.5:1, then your off boost fuelling must be terrible. My suggestion would be, using datalogit, to set all cruise fuelling to 15:1 and all +ve boost fuelling to 11:1 using the INJ map, then adjust the 8 point AFM scale until you hit these AFRs, or close to them in various engine load/rpm conditions. 

This took me about 20 minutes to recalibrate my PFC from standard to NISMO AFMs so isn't a big deal. Then re-adjust your INJ map to what you want fuelling to be, re-check AFRs, fine-tune if necessary and you'll cure your fouling problem and protect your valves/pistons/bores at the same time.

Then vent your breathers to atmos and dial in some extra advance


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

SIHethers said:


> Toby
> 
> If you're fouling plugs with load AFR's leaner than 12.5:1, then your off boost fuelling must be terrible. My suggestion would be, using datalogit, to set all cruise fuelling to 15:1 and all +ve boost fuelling to 11:1 using the INJ map, then adjust the 8 point AFM scale until you hit these AFRs, or close to them in various engine load/rpm conditions.
> 
> ...


yeah, my idle and off-boost fueling is terrible. 9:1 to 10:1 AFR. I spent the afternoon with my tuner reworking the injection map, and we've pulled ALL the fueling out, and it's just gone up to 11:1. I kept feeling like an intercooler pipe had popped off, but the car runs normally on load.

Hadn't thought of adjusting the AFM scale. all 8 values are at 100% right now. Raising or lowering has what effect on AFR? I guess I'll see when I start tweaking it, but the less time I spend on the rich side, the less chance I have of having to pull and scrub my plugs again, and crawl under the car to pull out and wipe off the wideband.

You wanna know how bad the fueling is? 55km covered, more than a third of the tank gone! **** me!


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## tuRBy (Feb 8, 2006)

reading your thread through the various stages - i hope you get it all sorted, just take your time sorting the AFR to avoid mistakes, sacrificing a bit of power for a safe engine is worth it, otherwise you wont ever get enjoyment from WOT if you think its going to pop at any time....

150km a tank - did i read that right ? ! damn - i hope korea is cheaper than the uk for fuel !

btw - which jap tuner mapped your car or would you prefer not to say ?[if ive missed a post explaining, my apologies]


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

This is getting rather frustrating.

-took delivery of the car, drove about 40km, slow as molasses, as it was rush hour and had to get to a wedding. Car stayed under 0.3bar boost and was driven very, very gently. Perhaps too gently.

-ran very low on gas. was in a part of town where 100RON isn't sold, so I put in 6 or 7 liters of regular to get me to a gas station that sold the good stuff. started the car fine, and figured no problem, as I was driving slower than my grandmother anyways.

-get to the station, stop, and top her off with the finest. Pay, then turn the key. The engine won't catch, and would not hold idle at all. Misfiring across the board. Somehow make it home.

-by some careful heel and toeing, I'm able to drive to the shop this morning while keeping the engine alive over 2000rpm. Car drives fine over 4000rpm, and I gave her a couple pushes to 1.3bar, seemed like everything was in order. It's just under 4000rpm where the damn thing is running 10:1 AFR and making no power, running lumpy as hell, etc.

-plugs were fouled (NGK iridiums), as expected. Someone took a wire brush and scrubbed them clean. They opened the gap up to 0.8mm, put them in, and it still ran like shit, although it could now hold some kind of idle. Switched ignition amps to one from a known working R33 GT-R, no change. Had to go to work, car managed to make it there and back without too much issue. As the car was running far too rich, I pulled back global injection, which seemed to only marginally help (when things are in order, you can input a small change in injection, ignition, and watch the AFRs change within seconds).

-I get back to the shop, where they're rather busy with other cars. Two guys do come in and get onto my laptop and start changing everything, pulling fuelling out of the injection map down to 0.500(corr.) at idle (????). still runs rich. They tell me to go home and sort out the map on my own. Car runs decently on boost (rather fast actually), but has a hard time getting up there, what with stuttering and misfiring and whatnot.

-get home, the missus threatens divorce - the car goes or she goes. as if I didn't have enough pressure upon myself for puzzling out this bizarre, sudden failure to run properly.

-the wife goes to sleep, I go down and reset everything on the Power FC. I reload the exact settings that were used on the dyno. Still runs like shit. I get on the phone with the mechanic, arguing air leak, bad spark plugs, what have you, and he says, well, everything ran well on the dyno, so it has to be the map. Ok, fine, let's check the map.

-I build a new one from scratch just to see. With injectors set correctly, and by lowering the AFM curve at the two lowest voltages (idle), I get the car to idle stably and perfectly at stoich. Touch the gas pedal though, and the car dies.

-by pulling out fueling in the idle part of the map, and fiddling with ignition timing in the same zone, things smooth out. Cool. So I pull the car out, and start heading up the ramps that get me out of the five floors of underground parking to the street.

-on the ramps, I hear the turbos working, BOVs recircing, and the car can barely, barely make it up these ramps.

-a quick run on the road (warmed up of course), and the car stutters, threatens to die, etc, until it hits 4000rpm. At which point the car launches itself and runs fine. From a dead stop though, it's the same old misery.

-in the garage, I tweak injection, ignition, and AFM corrections and can get a stoich stable idle every time. Drive a bit though, and it goes back to being 10:1 and the same crap low rpm running. No matter how I correct the idle, it always finds its way back to running rich. On load and boost, the AFM shoots up to 16.00(the max reading), although the car still pops and bangs when pulling off the throttle.

I'm at a complete loss.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

haha she obviously isnt very understanding to your passions K.C the woman i mean not the car 

You do seem to have the worst streak of bad luck ive seen, i hope you get it sorted out man, cause your car looks great!


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## SIHethers (Feb 1, 2006)

Toby

Adjusting the AFM scaling alters the AFM voltage to load calculation, so reducing AFM scale reduces calculated load thereby moving where you land on the map to a lower loads zone. As well as reducing fuelling, this may also advance your ignition so you do have to be careful.

I wouldn't use a wire brush on iridium plugs as they are fragile and easy to damage. Carb or brake cleaner should work. Gapping to 0.6mm gives best performance in my experience.

You also have PM


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

could these problems be caused by the spark plugs having been weakened/otherwise knackered by fouling and getting cleaned too vigorously? Or are spark plugs kind of an on/off thing - they either work or they don't?


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## Butuz (Jan 9, 2005)

Thats such a cool picture!!! The 959 - the car the R32GTR was based on!

Butuz


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

it is really interesting, and even more so as the apprentice has superceded the master. Side by side, the 959 manages to have everything the R32 has, including rear seats, in a much smaller, and probably much lighter, package. But I'm making at least a hundred horsepower more than the Porsche....


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## kennyc (Aug 25, 2005)

how was she running today?


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Toby, at idle the AFR should be reading lean or very high numbers. As you apply throttle at low revs it should be running 12.5+, if you are dropping down toward 10's at low revs then the points in the map set up for rev/load and throttle is wrong. Have you got a throttle compensation option? It looks like its been mapped up at the top end when boost is coming on but the bottom end has default values in which may well be on the very rich side (its a safety default) - as a consequence you will be fouling plugs very quickly! 
If you get a misfire at high revs/boost, monitor your voltage readings, whats happening on the "12V" line - it should be reading around 15V, you might see it dip just as the misfire kicks in........
While "playing" to sort out the bottom end it might be worth running a 7 plug, but don't try those at sustained power!
DaveG


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

kennyc said:


> how was she running today?


quite well, to be honest. There is a slight hesitiation in the 2000rpm range that I need to dial out. From 3000 on up it's a goddam monster. I'm thinking about pulling back the timing on the WOT loop 2-3 degrees, as I got knock of 35, which could be anything really, but I want to run low knock numbers. A quick global ignition retard of 3 degrees got rid of that (I have my knock warning set at 35).

I need to verify my on-road AFRs but my butt says it's hauling ass something fierce! EGT (post turbo by two inches) hit 700 degrees at one point. The EGT gauge moves fairly quickly up and down depending on driving conditions, so I'm inclined to believe it, even if it is post turbo.

Running 1.6bar high boost. And it's good.


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## kennyc (Aug 25, 2005)

1.6 will be lively!


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

kennyc said:


> 1.6 will be lively!


Lively?? I raised the boost solenoid duty cycle a couple notches so it'd come onto full boost sooner. And, honestly, even with empty roads, I gave myself an honest scare - just by driving from 4000-8000rpm WOT in 1st through 4th gears. Losing traction on gearshifts, etc.

The car is now beyond my abilities, and I will have to learn how to drive it.


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## DAN00H (Jul 14, 2004)

Hey Toby

Certainly sounds like you are experiencing timing issues lower in the rpm range. have you thought of using non-irridum plugs (much cheaper). I had similar issues to yours, when I had my timing gear out by 1 tooth. I'd be trying to run the most simple set up via the PFC as a base line, then add/ remove fuel & timing when it runs normally (but not necessarilly fast). Best of luck with it mate.

Oh, a lovely bunch of flowers and a dinner out go a long way to saying thanks to your wife for her patience - while letting here know she is appreciated (LOL - this too worked for me, still have a GTR and wife  )


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

if you see the overfueling at idle thread, you'll see I've now got the car sorted out - one single misrouted vacuum hose (to the deleted charcoal canister) caused fuel to get into the engine when the car was topped off, and the problem would gradually go away as the tank supply would dwindle.

anyways, fitted a Momo four point last night (after finally getting that damned rear seat off). My HKS transmission crossmember solid bushings finally showed up - a truly wizard supplier in Japan picked them up, when everyone else said it was impossible unless you drove your car to the HKS Kansai shop and had them fitted there:









A shot of the wideband lambda sensor - took it out and gave it a clean while it was up on the lift, and checked calibration - still dead center even with all the soot my engine's been throwing at it.









I need to fabricate a bracket to hold my iPod holder from swing all over the place when I get wild on the throttle. Poor thing is dealing with extra mass as I taked the Power FC commander to it - simply nowhere else to stick it.

In addition, having zillions of gauges, well, on full boost I've found that my brain can only register blinking lights, and nothing else except the road and my deathgrip on the steering wheel!

And surprise - I've run out of injector again. It may be the overrich top end of the map, plus the 2.6bar idle fuel pressure I'm running(at vacuum, 3 bar at 0 bar manifold pressure) but on a test pull for a boost setting self-learning run, I hit 100% injector duty (at a boost LESS than 2 bar. thank you ) and oddly, I noticed fuel pressure, which normally rises during boost (1 bar of boost will raise fuel pressure up 1 bar as well, etc) would fall during that last 1000 rpm from 7 to 8K, fall below 2bar in fact, triggering my warning lamp. Never knew fuel pressure fell when injectors were maxed, although it makes sense.

I think it's the setup that needs to be adjusted - Denso 700cc injectors are supposed to be good for 700bhp, and my engine can't make that much power - I thought I'd be well within 80% inj duty with my injectors. Never thought they'd become a limiting factor again - I'd have bought 1000cc for the same price otherwise!!


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Toby,

What fuel pumps have you got and are you running a swirl pot?

You will see fluctuations in pressure, ESPECIALLY if the system volts is dropping, the pumps are VERY sensitive to voltage. The flow rate rapidly drops off for small reductions in volts.

I run 4 pumps and around 6Bar of fuel pressure on load, mind you I'm feeding HKS 1000cc and Nissan 375's at the same time!

You should be targetting 80% cycle.
Check the fuel pressure on load, if need be get the pressure up.

Guages - don't try and read the numbers, just lock in your mind where the needle needs to be so you can just give them a quick glance, if the "picture" is wrong take your foot off!

DaveG


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

single in-tank Apexi fuel pump. Was thinking of running two but then thought that would be overkill. I do think that I should raise the fuel pressure, give myself some leeway. I think the Apexi unit is up to it.


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

I think the Apexi is rated up to 75psi line pressure? However that probably assumes 14+ volts at the terminal. Have you run a good quality supply to the pump? It REALLY needs it. Also assume you have a decent fuel regulator.

If you are delivering a consistent 14+V to the pump terminals and the regulator is doing its job, if that's not enough you need to upgrade the fuel system.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

my alternator is a bit on the weak side. I haven't taken a multimeter reading off directly off the terminals, but it's 13.5v at the ecu, 12.6v at various accessories, 11.9v as reported by my pioneer head unit.

stock original wiring and relays, and I really ought to measure what voltage is at the pump as well.

Fuel regulator is a new Nismo unit, but now that I think about it, it is odd that fuel pressure would drop high in the RPM band, as my fuel gauge is between the pump and the fuel rail - on the send line, not the return line.


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

kismetcapitan said:


> my alternator is a bit on the weak side. I haven't taken a multimeter reading off directly off the terminals, but it's 13.5v at the ecu, 12.6v at various accessories, 11.9v as reported by my pioneer head unit.


Er, that's sh!te of the first order. Probably need a re-furb on the alternator, its not expensive, mandatory is run a good quality supply wire from battery to fuel pump via a decent relay. The pump will be performing way below spec, at high RPM the injectors will be spraying hard and the pump will be struggling to keep the pressure up. 

First rule of tuning, without consistency you are pi55ing in the wind!


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

yep, I'll get it rebuilt before I start pushing it. Voltage drops 0.5 volts at high rpm and fuel pressure stops rising and drops. to below 2 bar - not good.

I'm hitting 100% injector duty - I wonder if this is electrical/fuel pump related, or if I need to raise overall fuel pressure. These are Sard 700cc and the build should not be able to make more than 600bhp so I had figured I had enough headroom with the injectors...


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

The injector rate is directly proportional to the fuel pressure behind it. For example, because of the high fuel pressure I run, the 1000cc injectors on my car are actually "factored" to 1250cc in the V-Pro, the 375's are near 500.

Correspondingly, if you are not keeping your fuel pressure up then your 700's could effectively be being "downgraded" - just at the wrong time! Hence the need for _*consistent*_ fuel pressure controlled by the regulator and not by the volts applied to the pump.......

Make sense?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

yep, the vacuum hose attached to the Nismo fuel regulator is definitely doing its job, raising fuel pressure in step with rising boost. It's just that weird plummet. Fuel pressure will rise from 2.5bar to 4.1 (1.6 bar boost setting) and hold it until about 7000rpm, at which point it falls precipitously to 1.8bar - definitely the wrong time, at 7000-8000rpm. Fueling problems were definitely a huge contributing factor to me losing my last engine.

One question about fueling - with a rise in fuel pressure (I know that at 4 bar pressure at idle, my 700cc injectors behaved like 890cc), is there also a corresponding rise in fuel flow in liters per minute? I suppose I've got the electrical amp/volt model in my head, where you can have high voltage (pressure) but amperes (flow volume) is independent of that.

Ah, that's wrong - thinking about it, as the pipes and injector orifices are constants, as pressure rises, so does flow. If the Apexi is good for 5 bars line pressure, I'll need headroom - I'll fiddle with fuel pressures to get a balance between effective injector rating (so that I don't exceed 80%) and max fuel pressure with boost (1.6~1.8), which means fuel pressure at zero manifold pressure can't really be more than 3 bars.

Might just have to do a dual feed rail and add a second pump - but is that really common on 600bhp setups?? I guess I'll just see how things are after putting in fresh wires to the pump direct from the terminals, a rebuilt alternator that can push two fuel pumps, all the regular car functions, a zillion gauges, HID headlamps, and a stereo system that can draw 100amps at peak (150+amp alternator?) and a new relay for safety's sake. Or would a second trunk mounted battery act as a large enough capacitor to give a smaller, say 110amp alternator a fighting chance to keep things powered?

Getting these things sorted is actually part of the pleasure of running a Skyline. Eventually, the car will end up being a new car - one bit at a time


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Personally Capitan I would blame the problem on something other than the pump. The pump is good for what 270LPH flow rate? That should be well more than enough to be pushing 500WHP. I know people still use the damn Wally 255LPH to run about that much power. At 270LPH that should be sufficent. 

btw, there is a mod posted somewhere to increase the voltage to the fuel pump and make it constant. You should definetly look into this. It is my understanding it may fix your situation perfectly.


-Sayajin


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Kind of like using stiffening capacitors for high current car stereo amps? I'll have to look into it - I want to install my stereo but if my fuel pump can't get enough juice then 80-100amps of amplifier draw will surely make things worse!


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Viola. Found that mod.


Fuel Pump Direct Feed Rewire. - Skylines Australia


This should do it for ya. I am 99% sure its not the pump... or at least that the pump should be capable of handling your HP.

-Sayajin


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

it's interesting, how these cars, especially the old R32, take a lot to get back to 100%. It has been my goal from the beginning to make everything on the car absolutely perfect (or find workarounds - like the clock. I took it out and threw it in the trash ).

so at this point, I'm looking at the following to set things perfect:

- bolster the electrical system. I'm getting 13.5 volts at the alternator, I want to get that in other places as well. Like my fuel pump!
- get my A/C condenser fan working (that electrical fan between the FMIC and the A/C condenser). May be just a relay.
- finish installing my stereo. I'm a musician, so the pair of stock 4x6 speakers in front just doesn't cut it 

mechanically, the car is 95% done. come summertime, a new radiator and oil cooler will go in. I'd like to incorporate an Accusump as well - strikes me as a better and more elegant solution then welding on oilpan extensions sticking out in odd directions.

I need to tweak my map. I think I see where I'm going to add my water injection - I'll set the boost trigger to 1.3 bar, so it'll start spraying at that boost level. That should let me keep advanced timing and keep high end power. The problem is tuning AFR - water doesn't burn obviously, but I think it'll show up as extra oxygen to the wideband - meaning false lean readings. I'll have to look into it in much more depth before I turn on the system (single nozzle between FMIC and intake plenum).

I'm painting my Trust rear skirts and will put them on in a day or two. Still would like to eventually add Veilside skirts and a D.speed Python rear wing. I've also been mulling over how to adapt the JUN Super Lemon wing to an R32. The R32 trunk is wider than the R33 by two-odd inches IIRC (I took measurements). The JUN spoiler uprights, with a generic dry carbon wing, cut to fit the extra width, just might look natch. Or crap.

Stock FMIC. I want to keep it. May need to upgrade though. I'm aesthetically against adding N1 bumper vents, but if they really do help, then form must follow function. Korea is now switching over to Euro style plates (the long thin sort) so I can get rid of that air-blocking front plate and mount the new one down low and out of the way on the front splitter.

Front drivers seat. Damned bolster holes. Need to get them repaired. A fresh set of Nismo mats would be nice as well - the originals are feeling a bit worn. Control surfaces are all new - Momo steering wheel, shift knob, e-brake, Cusco drift e-brake button, custom leather gaiters, embroidered "Nismo" by "Mr. Gaiter", an English gaiter business. They came out perfect. The Apexi RSM is taped over the console triple gauge, and I will pull the gauge cluster and mount the RSM in its place. Just need a bit of plastic surround to cover the empty space.

Strengthened HICAS delete bar and rear traction rods are on their way. Nismo brake lines are still in the trunk, waiting to get fitted. I'll order some uprated antisway bars and call it a day with the suspension. The car handles magnificently as it is anyways.

The car is really a street car, so uprated brakes can wait I think. I'll be doing some time attack events this summer, so that opinion may change quickly thereafter!

Main thing is keeping the car together, and avoiding another breakdown. I watch the AFR more than any other gauge, EGT comes second. Datalogit makes on-road fine tuning very easy. Turn log record on. Drive. Stop. Review every imaginable parameter. Look at which cells seem out on fueling or timing. Adjust. Repeat.

I'm in the car shop several times a week, getting something done or another. Most people would consider this intolerably unreliable, and a car to get rid of quickly. But if it were just a finished product, like picking up an Enzo from a dealership, where's the fun in that?? And when those 600bhp supercars have problems (and they do), you haven't a clue as to why your toy is broken, and all you can do is fret and worry, and pay out the ass - I'll bet an Enzo clutch job cost as much as my entire stage two part list.

I drive a car that makes something close to 600bhp at the flywheel. Maybe more. I spec'ed it out myself. And every little niggle that gets taken care of, leads me to a greater understanding of my car. I can identify most parts and their function - the engine bay is no longer a mystery. And that in itself, is getting my money's worth in spades.

Air in the clutch? A pain in the ass? I like being in the garage, and I now know how bleeding the clutch is done. Time well spent in my day...


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## GTR-Dad (Feb 1, 2006)

Fantastic story!

I'm on an RB26 rebuild path myself with a very similar parts list, right down to the Power FC, Datalogit, Splitfire coils, and GT2860R -5 turbos! I'm running the 264 x 9.7 mm Jun cams with adjustable wheels though. 

I love your account of what the car feels like when you let her rip! Can't wait for mine to be done!!!

I've got the Whiteline ajustable anti-roll bars ready to fit. I've heard lot's of good on SAU about them.

I know you're in touch with the importance of fueling. Still, I say watch your fueling like a hawk!!! It's good to have three ways to watch this. I've only got the wideband and the EGT. Do you log your fuel pressure? If so, you could correlate fuel pressure drop with battery voltage (or even a direct measurement at the fuel pump... did someone already suggest this?) and injector duty cycle and figure out where you're running into problems. 

Enjoy the journey!

As much as I enjoy building and tuning, racing lights me up even more! :smokin: 

Cheers,
Dan


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## bullitt78 (Aug 19, 2006)

I am amazed at the caliber of cars in that shop. Looks like your car is in good company!! CLK DTM, 959, tuned Porsches, etc. Simply awesome!!


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I worked out a plan with the shop to add a second battery in the trunk and run a huge wire back to it from the alternator. A big truck battery, to act as a massive capacitor for the fuel pump (and a second if added in the future), as well as keep my stereo power amps from killing all power in the car. Eventually I'll rebuild and uprate the alternator to 150-odd amps or so, but since things just got put together, I really don't want to pull it all apart so soon! It adds weight, but the stereo itself adds a fair amount also, and my philosophy is, if it's not fast enough, don't strip the car, just add more power! 

I don't have a 0-5V send to the Datalogit box for my fuel pressure gauge (Apexi EL2), but dumbass that I am didn't even think to look at my logs at voltage. It is rpm based (on load only), from a surface glance. In the meantime I am assiduously avoiding high boost and WOT. With fuel pressure raised to 3.3bar at idle, I'm still getting 87% injector duty. I want to get my injectors flow-tested but can't a place to do it in Korea. Otherwise, pressure versus injector scaling is all guesswork, and I'm dead certain in my gut that Sard/Denso 700cc injectors, well, aren't (probably higher).

The DTM is undergoing $80,000 of crash damage repair - basically everything from the front bumper to the A-pillar was messed up bad. Engine looks nice (new one), some kind of supercharged V8 (I don't know German cars or engines past 1990).

Added rear spats today - they really, really finish off the end of the R32 nicely. The design really should have been stock:


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## GTR-Dad (Feb 1, 2006)

kismetcapitan said:


> I worked out a plan with the shop to add a second battery in the trunk and run a huge wire back to it from the alternator. A big truck battery, to act as a massive capacitor for the fuel pump (and a second if added in the future), as well as keep my stereo power amps from killing all power in the car. Eventually I'll rebuild and uprate the alternator to 150-odd amps or so, but since things just got put together, I really don't want to pull it all apart so soon! It adds weight, but the stereo itself adds a fair amount also, and my philosophy is, if it's not fast enough, don't strip the car, just add more power!
> 
> I don't have a 0-5V send to the Datalogit box for my fuel pressure gauge (Apexi EL2), but dumbass that I am didn't even think to look at my logs at voltage. It is rpm based (on load only), from a surface glance. In the meantime I am assiduously avoiding high boost and WOT. With fuel pressure raised to 3.3bar at idle, I'm still getting 87% injector duty. I want to get my injectors flow-tested but can't a place to do it in Korea. Otherwise, pressure versus injector scaling is all guesswork, and I'm dead certain in my gut that Sard/Denso 700cc injectors, well, aren't (probably higher).
> 
> Added rear spats today - they really, really finish off the end of the R32 nicely. The design really should have been stock:


The car looks great! To my eye, the back end could be lowered a bit and will likely improve handling in Time Attack applications. (355 mm from front wheel center to top of guard, 345 mm on rear works great)

Is the alternator sorted? It's got to be putting out enough voltage. The battery 'capacitor' will probably help fill in short duration demands, but fixing the root cause is even better. 

I think your voltage is browning out at high revs (verify from logs), reducing your fuel pump flow at base plus boost pressure, which requires greater duty cycle to get adequate A/F ratios. If you want to log fuel pressure, DigiKey can supply as 12 V powered 1-5V output transducer for about $150. 

Fix the alternator, retune, remove the front battery leaving only the one in the truck (better weight distribution), and you'll be set.

Dan


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

Hi Mate,

Glad to hear that you are getting there and have the turbos on 

Regarding the fuel pressure drop:

I had EXACTLY the same issue at the same points etc on mine (im running SARD 720cc's, nismo fuel pump etc)

To fix the issue it turned out was that the R32GTR has SMALLER fuel lines than the 33gtr or 34gtr ! This was causing a flow restriction at high revs/fuel load which resulted in a pressure drop as the engine was using more fuel than the pump could get through the lines...

to fix this i installed large braided fuel lines and twin fed a Tomei rail with the return line going to a SARD pressure reg and then back to the tank.. everything is now braided and set up to run much more than what i need.

the only problem was that braided lines/end/split/adapters and a defi bf fuel press guage to monitor it, all costs a fortune when you are replacing the whole lot 

Hope this helps you as i know it has been a nightmare sorting it all out as i thought the pump was at fault first ...


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I'd lower the rear but it requires disassembling the (Mines/Ohlins) coilovers, moving the spring plate to a lower slot, then reassembling the whole thing. As good as Ohlins are, I've thought about dumping them for some Nismo or Tein units, just so that I can adjust the height of them a millimeter at a time with a pair of those odd-shaped wrenches, as I did with the front.

The alternator is putting out 13.5 volts - short of 14.4. No idea about if it's provding enough amperes. Browning out is definitely a good description for what's happening.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

perhaps another way to skin that cat would be to use both send and return lines as send lines, each feeding one end of a Tomei rail, then all I'd need is to buy a return line (well, and the Tomei rail as well - I'm assuming I can use my Nismo FPR with the Tomei rail and the center return). Ideally I'd have an Apexi on each send line, but my one will have to suffice.

Did you check voltage at your pump as well as your relay?


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

doh ! why on earth didnt i think of doing that ?

the tomei rail will need an adapter for the nismo fpr i think that they sell.
Am going to check the voltage at the pump tomorrow and will get back to you with those boost settings as i get the car back tomorrow


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I'm also misfiring at high boost/high rpm. Just another reminder that when you go up a level in power, everything, and everything, and everything, must keep up. I guess I'll have to go back down to a 0.6mm gap on the plugs, unless there are any other ways of curing spark blowout at 6500rpm?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Redline heavy shockproof showed up today from the States. ****ing metric system. I ordered eight quarts, which I figured would be enough for two fillups of the transmission (one now, one spare). A quart is *less* than a liter, meaning five quarts to fill the transmission. Argh. But...let's see if it helps with the 4th gear synchro crunch any 









The WOT misfire is irritating. Hopefully with the plugs regapped (went though this before on the last engine and it worked) I can finish mapping out the high load/rpm parts of the map. Plus I can sleep soundly knowing that my car is no longer impotent when called upon to perform:chuckle: 

If all goes well, tonight will see the car with the last of it's niggling problems sorted. The fuel lines seem ok up to 1.5bar, so I'll just leave the car at that. 1.6 or 1.7 can wait until I get a dual feed fuel rail and redo the fuel lines and voltage mod to the fuel pump.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

car's on the lift. they said they found some kind of leaking oil pump seal. After 500 miles?? I don't know if I should be irritated out of my mind, if it's something they left out while rebuilding my engine, or if it is a fortuitous "caught it early before it caused real damage" fluke thing. I just can't see how a new seal would fail after 500 miles.










my cellphone overexposed in the light...a white R34 is next to mine, just back from an on road Fcon mapping session. I really must wonder though - what kind of real mapping can be done in Seoul afternoon traffic?

The R34 driver is some kid (annoying!), and his buddy pulled up later in his Bentley Conti GT - also some unemployed kid. Bleah. I really oughtn't care what other people drive or what they do with their money, but it does gall me a bit, considering how much I've had to work to dump all that cash into my car, then to see someone dickhead who's mommy bought him his GT-R or whatever car for fun.

With my ignition on boost issue sorted....d'ya think I can take that Bentley in a drag race?


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## Floyd (Dec 15, 2004)

kismetcapitan said:


> perhaps another way to skin that cat would be to use both send and return lines as send lines, each feeding one end of a Tomei rail, then all I'd need is to buy a return line (well, and the Tomei rail as well - I'm assuming I can use my Nismo FPR with the Tomei rail and the center return). Ideally I'd have an Apexi on each send line, but my one will have to suffice.


I have come up with what I think is more elegant solution.
As I am deleting my HICAS I'm going to utilise the two hicas fluid pipes that run from front to back as my fuel feeds to each end of a Tomei fuel rail, keeping the standard return line. I'm also installing two fuel pumps and filters fed from a collector tank fed by an HKS lift pump from the standard tank.

The pumps are fed from heavy guage electrical cable from fused feeds off the battery.

Any thoughts?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

ooh, even better idea. questions I need to ask myself:

-HICAS is long gone on my car, are the lines there as well or were they removed?

-will the diameter of the pipes be sufficient?

-running my pumps directly off my battery is high on my list of things to do

-I'm also wondering about the vacuum/boost connection line to my fuel pressure regulator. Fuel restriction and pump voltage/amperes is something I will beef up for sure, but I have a gut feeling the boost line isn't pushing hard enough to raise fuel pressure in step with boost. I know this because on dyno day, it did, bar for bar. But when finishing up the car, they rerouted some vacuum lines, mostly to clean things up in the engine bay. I'll take a pic of where the FPR is plugged in now, post it up in a bit. As it stands, idle is at 3.3bar, maxes at 4bar regardless of boost level. I won't push the car until that is sorted.

-a question (I never really studied fluid dynamics): if the fuel pressure in the rail is 4 bar, will the pressure in each feed line also be 4 bar? From what little I remember from hydraulics, I would think so, although common sense seems to say each line would be 2 bar, adding up to 4 total in the rail. This is important because I only have one fuel pressure gauge and don't particularly feel like installing another - one for each line. Unless I can somehow convert that useless water temp gauge next to the tachometer to a second fuel pressure meter.

In any event - this thread lingers because after a car is built, it's plainly not finished. I try to think of the car in four systems - air, water, fuel, oil. 

-Air, with the new turbos and Z32 AFMs, is a-ok. I'm still sticking with the stock FMIC, until it clearly presents a restriction. One real possibility is to run a larger FMIC in summer, then go back to the stock unit in winter. Otherwise, I'd say things are squared away here.

-Oil: need oil cooler when the weather warms up. And my car was indeed leaking oil. A nick in the crankshaft wore through an o-ring seal, causing oil to leak out slowly. They polished the crankshaft end until smooth, then put everything back together. $50. Not bad for an all afternoon labor job. Put Redline heavy shockproof in my transmission. And I'll be damned - my 4th gear crunch is gone. The stuff is very notchy when cold, but it's worth it. Tested it by slamming it fast into all gears with the car wound up. grinding gone. Will still shift gently and double clutch 4th gear for longevity's sake. The $240 I spent on HKS transmission oil last summer was a complete waste of money.

-Water. N1 pump, radiator come summertime, what else could possibly be done. They put in Motul Inugel Expert Ultra antifreeze. I dunno if it's good or not - all I know is that antifreeze tastes sweet to cats and will kill them.

-Fuel. As above. Still problematic in my car, more so than I ever thought it would be.

Ah, and electrical. Regapped back down to 0.6mm and the car no longer misfires at high boost. Pulls like a beast 

So that's the first five hundred miles. Still getting shite gas mileage - 300km per 65 liter fillup. Once I'm really comfortable with the map and know the car is set up for all boost levels and load conditions (a few more road-mapping sessions I think), then I'll really feel like the car is ready to serve it's role - mild mannered daily driver, able to blow away anything at the drop of the hat.

One last thought - I've got real time monitoring of EGT, fuel pressure, and wideband lambda. I want real time knock monitoring as well. I've the Power FC of course, but I'm thinking - some det cans permanently attached to the engine, then have the audio filtered through the proper frequencies, then send the audio out into my Aux 2 input in my stereo. Aux 1 is my iPod, but it'd be nice to switch to Aux 2 and listen to the clicks of normal combustion, and be aware when those pings come up. More useful then listening to the radio!


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## kennyc (Aug 25, 2005)

kismetcapitan said:


> I've the Power FC of course, but I'm thinking - some det cans permanently attached to the engine, then have the audio filtered through the proper frequencies, then send the audio out into my Aux 2 input in my stereo. Aux 1 is my iPod, but it'd be nice to switch to Aux 2 and listen to the clicks of normal combustion, and be aware when those pings come up. More useful then listening to the radio!


Just imagining you sitting in the car cruising along with det cans on all the time lol! Sorry im a paranoid owner aswellalways thinking something might blow up aswell hehe

I know HKS do a knock monitoring system using existing sensors 

RK Tuning sell them


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

couldnt you just up the fuel pressure to 4/5 bar at idle ?

then when it drops under load it should not go below 3 bar...


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

plkettle said:


> couldnt you just up the fuel pressure to 4/5 bar at idle ?
> 
> then when it drops under load it should not go below 3 bar...


I thought about that - but I need 1.6bar headroom, and as I understand, the Apexi fuel pump is rated to handle up to 5 bar. Hence the 3.3bar idle setting...


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

no kidding. the misfire occurs when the fuel pressure drops below exactly 3 bar. This is not good, and it did not do this on the dyno - and the fuel pipes and electrical wiring, relays, etc. were exactly as they are now.


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

was the electrical input to the fuel pump on yours working properly ? 
i.e. is it switching to high voltage when you hit higher revs or does it stay the same all the way through ?

I just uprated all the lines/rail/reg/injectors in mine with a 280ltr/hr tomei pump and im still seeing pressure drops at high revs...the only thing i can now think is that the pump on mine is not switching to high voltage at high rpms or i need a brand new pump.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

are you sure the boost/vacuum line on your fuel pressure regulator is properly setup? that's where I'm guessing my problem lies - took some pics, gonna start up a new thread.


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

yeah i think its ok,

set at 3.0 bar with no vaccum, with vaccum lines connected it drops a bit as it should and when on boost it rises with the boost perfectly....

however at around 5k rpm and WOT it drops in pressure


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

me too! and it wasn't doing that before...what is the max pressure you get before it plummets? I get 4 bar before it starts dropping.


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

it will have been around that figure if not a bit more than 4bar...

did you measure the earth at the pump when doing the runs ? what was the pump getting - did it increase the resistance on the earth when it got to high revs ?


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

maybe try earth the fuel pump directly so it runs at full and then see if the pressure stops dropping ?


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

Fuel pressure should rise with boost, if it does not then either the fuel pump is not upto the job or there is a problem with FPR.

Det cans on engine permanently - of course! Audio filtering with bandpass filters also a nice solution.

You must fit the UEGO output to the datalogit to get useful AFR data logged.


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

for both of us the pressure rises with boost as normal but at high rpms it starts to drop back again.

my runs have all been done on the dyno and no det has occoured and the AFR's are all perfect... mine doesnt drop below 3 bar differential pressure (FP minus BP) as we have set the FP baseline at 4 bar instead of 3 so im still ok there, the concern for me is why am i getting any drop at all ??

I currently understand that the power FC varies its ground signal to the pump to increase the power the pump runs at....

If this is the case it might be that the ECU isnt upping the power properly and instead needs to be wired up direct to +12V for constant high voltage to the pump ??

are there any other R32GTR owners that have seen this issue before ? i know some of you guys also run 600hp on tomei pumps.....


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## SIHethers (Feb 1, 2006)

Unless you monitor fuel pressure you wouldn't know it was happening, and if its not too bad you could map around it. What about running a direct 12V feed and ground?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

plkettle, so if you were running 1.5bar boost for example, your fuel pressure would start at 4 bar, hit 5.5 bar when full boost hit but before 6000rpm, then drop 2.5bar down to 3 bar? That's a mighty precipitous drop!

since fueling was a factor in my last engine meltdown, my fuel pressure gauge is literally about six inches from my face on the A pillar


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