# Totting up



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Today:

Over 25,000 posts
8 years as GTROC Chairman
14 years of ownership of N15MO J
Over £100,000 on engine modifications and rebuilds
Countless track and drag days
Two crashes (Spa Francorchamps and Brands Hatch)
One final decision: What I have managed to rescue from the garage supposedly rebuilding it will be sold. What is left will be crushed

:sadwavey:


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Haven't they been 'rebuilding it' for years now?

How many miles have you driven it for?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Three years in rebuild and all I have is a metallic soup of bits (and not even all the ingredients). The car had done 120,000 miles before it went off to intensive care, never to return


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

oohh bugger John 

Real shame as so much history in the car for you ! 
Not salvageable at all ?


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## timmd10 (Feb 14, 2007)

love this car its amazing!! i want


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

There seem to be a few 'garages' out there with shocking customer care....

What a crap ending.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

trackday addict said:


> oohh bugger John
> 
> Real shame as so much history in the car for you !
> Not salvageable at all ?


Just to give you an example of what i am left with.... two blocks and one head (warped). The other head is "missing". Some of the rear suspension parts have been removed and are currently being driven around on someone elses car and I have no idea who. Windscreens are 'missing'. No loom. Turbines are missing, even though I've paid for them to be refurbished. etc. etc. etc. :bawling:


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

So to sum up John, you've been robbed?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

There is no point trying to pursue someone who will hide behind the veil of his business rather than face up to his responsibilities. Especially when he is closing down the business. I'd rather just quit while I can salvage something financially that waste more money pursuing what i rightfully know I am entitled to.

John sumed it up (kind of) best. It's not the money; it's the history, and it's what the car meant to me. The car was mine, was recognisable as mine, was photographed and had magazine articles done about it. It famously 'blew up' in the car park at the Nurburgring and the marshal famously said (in a German accent) "For you, ze Ring is over".


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Gosh, now, 'For you, ze dream is over'.

Very sorry tale.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Indeed. But it was a lot of fun while it lasted, it just had a very sad ending and has left an incredibly bitter taste in my mouth. If nothing else it got me head honcho and chief biatch of the GTROC and got me on a DVD, into the Herlad Tribune and on National Geographic. But, and far more importantly, it has introduced me to a lot of people I really like being around and some people I would genuinely call friends. That bit at least, is priceless


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## ANDY H (Mar 17, 2005)

Sad times!!!


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I'm sure the memory will last for ever, where as after a few pints, the bitter taste will have gone...


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

That suck...

I have to say, there have been a few in the Tuning World.
RC Development and Car Planet com to mind... 

Sad time, and really feel for you as your R33 was awesome and always had been the "Face" for our club.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

All things aside, John - It's a real shame and you shouldn't give up on what that mofo owes you.


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## signalr32 (Mar 21, 2011)

My heart goes with you.. Sad day here at GTROC... No way you would just rebuild it yourself and make it a garage project. I am sure TONS of guys on here would help.. heck if I lived over there I would make a saturday each week out of it.


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

That's a real shame. How can a garage get away with something like that? Who was it?


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

moleman said:


> All things aside, John - It's a real shame and you shouldn't give up on what that mofo owes you.


Quoted again for the truth,must have been a hard decision,can't believe it was to that extent though! bits missing just like that! shocking!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

signalr32 said:


> My heart goes with you.. Sad day here at GTROC... No way you would just rebuild it yourself and make it a garage project. I am sure TONS of guys on here would help.. heck if I lived over there I would make a saturday each week out of it.


Thank you that is very kind of you to say, but it's just one car at the end of the day. There are too many parts 'missing' and too much of what has been done already has not been done very well and would need to be redone. All in all it would be a huge task and not a cheap exercise.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Nocturnal said:


> Sad time, and really feel for you as your R33 was awesome and always had been the "Face" for our club.


In more ways than you know! If you look at the header on the main GTR Register front page (GTR - Owners Club) the white R33 in the middle IS my car


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## 4wdnoob (Sep 1, 2009)

From reading the thread title, I though this was going to be about points on a driving license and then getting banned, after reading the actual post I was like "whaaaaaaaaat ?"

so, basically, you've been robbed !
isn't there anything that can be done about it ? 
I'd be wanting someones spinal cord to be "missing" 

I'm really sorry to read about this, hope the person involved isn't able to setup again in a similar business and do similar to anyone else. Can understand if you dont want to name and shame, but I don't think i'd be quite as calm or collected.

Any plans for another GTR in the future ? or are you done with them now ?


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## jaycabs (Nov 16, 2007)

Fuggles said:


> There is no point trying to pursue someone who will hide behind the veil of his business rather than face up to his responsibilities. Especially when he is closing down the business. I'd rather just quit while I can salvage something financially that waste more money pursuing what i rightfully know I am entitled to.
> 
> John sumed it up (kind of) best. It's not the money; it's the history, and it's what the car meant to me. The car was mine, was recognisable as mine, was photographed and had magazine articles done about it. It famously 'blew up' in the car park at the Nurburgring and the marshal famously said (in a German accent) "For you, ze Ring is over".


john , i assume you have seeked legal advice about it all then ?

not about the money but every thing you have been through with it ................more the reason to fight for it and i would have thought as how your sounding is as if the car is dead when it doesnt have to be .


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

A very sad day John.

Its very wrong that its possible for the guy to just lose things (and worse) and get away with it but unfortunately that is the way things can work in the UK. 

And he probably will start up again as we allow that as well.
As for naming and shaming I beleive that has already been done so I wont dwell on it as you have made your decision

I can see the point of closing the episode as you can then get on with things that are more important.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I have taken legal advice. The sad truth is the contract was with a company and the agreement with them also, even though it was in reality a one-man-band. The company is being wound up and there is nothing I can do other than to sue for misrepresentation of contract. At that point it gets very complex and, for legal matters, that means expensive. I reckon I can salvage some money and walk away with my integrity intact and put it all behind me rather then endure more years of stress.

As Winnie the Pooh said "I have run out of run"


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## jim-lm (Mar 15, 2005)

John this is so shocking to read my friend... I can't believe you are just walking away from this with a hand full of parts..

I am also very surprised with the tuner as I held him in high regard to skyline tuning and can't believe he has done this to you.

Can you not take some of his stock so you get back what is missing or to the value at least...

My post mite be edited but sod it.....Gary passingham of GT-ART hold your head in shame..!!!!!!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I have several unanswered emails as of right now and may well pop down to his lock up soon to see if there is anything that is indeed mine and has been 'found' by him. The cage that was installed by him was condemned by a professional cage builder. So it's not just about the parts it's about the work paid for that has no value and will actually cost me money to remove before I even start again.


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## jim-lm (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear this john...I wish you luck in sorting this out as much as possible.

Are you going to go for a 35 or not bother with skylines after this..


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Can't afford an R35, but would love one. Working for myself in three years of recession has taken its toll


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

No doubt he'll start up under another company name again soon. How many have there been now ? At least two prior to the latest one. I don't know how he keeps getting away with it.

Feel for you John


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

i would do more than see if my parts were there i would make sure bits became mine, and i am sure there are a few people who would be happy to help including me, i had a bad experience and lost a fraction to you ( £5k i lost) all these people who say they are "skyline specialist" cant work on a wheel barrow!!!!!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Maybe I should talk to my Russian builder friends


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

wers the company based? :thumbsup:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

This has NOT been sped up:


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## Bajie (Dec 13, 2001)

I can't believe this.
Saw you selling blocks in the For Sale section and merely thought you were going another direction engine wise

I am seriously astounded this has happened.
I feel for you John, I really do. I would be in a cell if I were in your position.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

I had bad feelings about the progress of this for some time....John I know you are just tired of it but what has happened is disgraceful. Personally i'd feel vengeful enough to give legal grief, but I can understand why you're doing what you are.

Sad thing is with no MOT or tax in last 12 months you can't even get your number plate back. Try at least to get your shell, hopefully someone else can fix the cage and build her up.
T


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## Robbie 733 (Feb 25, 2005)

Fuggles said:


> This has NOT been sped up:


I'm astounded that someone could do this to you, especially considering all the fall out they will attract, even if they do have the gaul to start up again ???

If you need a man with a van to pop down South and collect any bits you think are your's give me a shout.

Oh and if it's any conciliation, I beat your car in a drag race on the I.O.M, in my bog-standard 34 many years ago.
(So what if it was being driven by Bootylicious !!!)


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

tonigmr2 said:


> Sad thing is with no MOT or tax in last 12 months you can't even get your number plate back. Try at least to get your shell, hopefully someone else can fix the cage and build her up.
> T


Surely if its been sorned it not a problem


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

I think it has to have had tax within the last 12 months, don't quote me on that.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Shit, just been directed to this thread. I'm sorry to hear it John. Must admit I thought it was at a different tuner, and had heard THAT tuner was going tits big style. If the previous posts are true then it's a tragedy.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

tonigmr2 said:


> Sad thing is with no MOT or tax in last 12 months you can't even get your number plate back.


I really hope not, that's the only thing I want to keep.


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## equinox (Dec 14, 2010)

What a sorry sorry tale, gutted for you. its terrible


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Mookistar said:


> Shit, just been directed to this thread. I'm sorry to hear it John. Must admit I thought it was at a different tuner, and had heard THAT tuner was going tits big style. If the previous posts are true then it's a tragedy.


I think you'll not be far wrong.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

tonigmr2 said:


> I think it has to have had tax within the last 12 months, don't quote me on that.


 Na its only if its on retention that you have to pay, if its on the car then its fine


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Mookistar said:


> Shit, just been directed to this thread. I'm sorry to hear it John. Must admit I thought it was at a different tuner, and had heard THAT tuner was going tits big style. If the previous posts are true then it's a tragedy.


Ooohh, who's that then?

TT


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Not for me to say I'm afraid. It may not be true, don't want to damage anyone's reputation without all the facts


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

it says whos it was in the past posts


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

A launch photo from TOTB. Not bad considering it had NO suspension










Front row on the Nissan Skyline parade lap at Donnington a few years back










A long time ago! Long before all the kit went on and the horsepower went up!










The first place I crashed, Brands Hatch


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

And the Tuner sticker on the back of the car is not the tuner in question.


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

I'm really sorry to read about this John, you're the last person that deserves anything like this to happen. 

Good luck with moving forward...

Regards
Nito


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Abbey M/S said:


> And the Tuner sticker on the back of the car is not the tuner in question.


gosh, very sorry chaps. No absolutely no way. I can confirm Abbey Motorsport have always been exceptional people to deal with. Sorry chaps didn't mean to even suggest it was you. oops


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## Gary&Amanda (Feb 10, 2011)

John if you decide that the guy who robbed you needs a trip to the woods with my friends mr gaffa and mr tape and thier nasty friends mr shovel and Mr P axe let me know and the stagea is yours for the trip


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## jaycabs (Nov 16, 2007)

It would be good if many of us could help chip in to get your 33 sorted ? I cant afford much but every little helps and you never know , maybe it might be suprising how much might get raised ?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

The generosity of people on here is very humbling. The cage is such an abortion it would be worth starting with a whole new shell. There are more parts missing than is possible to source easily. It is very kind of people to offer but the day has come to finally draw this sad and sorry tale to a close rather than to perpetuate the nightmare that it has become. ......and I promise not to cry in my beer at the Annual Dinner in a few weeks


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## Clive S-P (Aug 8, 2008)

Abbey M/S said:


> And the Tuner sticker on the back of the car is not the tuner in question.


I don't think for a second anyone would have thought you were. :thumbsup:

I too am very sorry to hear this news John. A real tragedy.

Have you fallen out of love with Skylines now, or just lost the will to carry on with this one?

I would be willing to chip in too, I think we all owe John a debt of gratitude for all the work he has done over the years.

Call it 'FFS'
For Fuggles Sake !!


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

+1 on that one


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Not fallen out of love. One day I will own another one. Right now I need a Skyline-holiday


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

No need to chip in. The die is cast, the scene is set; pick your own idiom.


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## Clive S-P (Aug 8, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> No need to chip in. The die is cast, the scene is set; pick your own idiom.


Who are you calling an idiom?!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

believe me that's nothing to some of the words I have used of late!


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## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

Gutted for your John, Its hard to believe that stuff like this goes on!!!!


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

i have had an idea dont no if its a good one... but no one buy jhons bit then he has to put the machine back on the road :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:


sorry john


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

A sad shocking tale that I am sadly not in any way surprised about with GT-art.

I would also offer any assistance or parts that I could to facilitate getting your car back on the road.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Chaps, all very well meant and more than a little humbling. If it was a realistic project I would. The sad truth is there is more than 50% is missing or unservicable and just to repair the work that has already been done to get to the start point would cost four figures. It would be easier, and cheaper, to buy a sorted R33 and go from there or a standard one than base it on what amounts to a Nissan soup of bits. My heart is set and my mind made up. It's going because it's too much to take on in terms of workload, sourcing parts, money etc. etc. None of it makes sense to pursue. But huge and heartfelt thanks to all the offers and suggestions.


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

To be honestly thinking... how much work will it to get it back running?

Okay, roll cage is screw....
But no one said it need to be an FIA one... what extra will it need to get it safe for track days?

Engine and missing bits: plenty of GTR breaking and I am sure you should be able to get enough bits to pull back 600 bhp easily.
Not ultra fast but liveable with enough power for those track days.

Suspension: Again, plenty of GTR breaking. Anything high performance or adjustable arms needed, drop me a PM and I'll back you up.

I mean honestly... I know it suck and surely feel shafted (I had my share before), but I think you are thinking of the worst case scenario at the moment.

Between the forum members and all the traders, I am sure we can get this car running again without costing another mountain pile of cash.

It might not be as good as what it "could" of been, but then is it worth losing out completely because lets face it, you are more than half way there with the parts you have. 

Just a thought, and I am sure I speak for most of everyone if you need help, just ask. :thumbsup:


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## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

hey john, i'll drink your soup with you LOL!!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Nocturnal said:


> To be honestly thinking...


Your thoughts are very much appreciated as are the PMs, txts, FB messages and emails. Heck, never been so popular! 

It's not the rebuilding of the car it's the atention to detail that went into it. For example the rear suspension had a mix of Nismo, Cusco and Apex parts. They were chosen because they offered the right solution for what I wanted. There were even some very rare pieces that i sourced from trips to Japan and brought back with me which I have never seen on any other car or heard anyone else mention them. A professional looked at the cage and said if there was to be an accident it would be "like sitting on a box of javelins" . The reality is I could just eep the body kit, but a White R33 and put a monster engine in it and still be quids in compared to what it would cost to right all this. The simple reality is I have got to the end of a very long journey with this car and don't have it in my heart (or my wallet) to continue. I would rather put the dieing beast out of it's misery than try to rescue what will be a monumental task. 

Put it another way.......... someone's going to get a really nice set of genuine Bee-R side srts. Someone is going to get a CF dash, CF boot and lots of other CF parts. Someone already has the interior (I sold it to him). Someone is going to have a very nice set of engine components including a billet 2.8 HKS crank (try buying one of them today) and someone else will end up with probably the last RRR block. My loss indeed but a lot of people's gains. I'd call that a fair swap


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Some of my favourite static pictures:



















and the first Isle of Man trip:


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## Bajie (Dec 13, 2001)

Bloody Whoopie went in The Fug and I never did.
How hard is it going to be for me to find all the guys that bought your parts and then get them to give me a passenger lap


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

and one that's not so static:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Here's a fun one of you getting pipped at the post by Conrad in his Noble


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

yeah thanks for that!  To be fair the GTR does weight about three times what the Noble weighs. About 250kg or something I think. But in all fairness I did lose


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

If Gary Passingham was a director of GT-Art, can't he be personally sued for 'wrongful acts'? That is why directors of Ltd Co's (if that applies to GT-Art) buy Directors & Officers insurance??

May be worth getting legal opinion.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your predicament - let's hope this guy never gets in a position to do this to anyone else.

Cheers,

Mark


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> sitting on a box of javelins


Damn... I was thinking that the cage wasn't up to spec... didn't know it was down right dangerous.

Yea, given what you said it make more sense to start with a new shell.
Might be worth just getting a new shell and throwing everything across.

Suspension wise I can pretty much help out on most bits.
Tell me what you need and I can most like source them / make them.

But I guess putting the Step3 kit into the RRR block would be a lot of money you can get back... it is sad to see it go but that is what happen when someone "F**K" up the car beyond salvage with poor workmanship.

I really feel sad about this... you just don't expect these to happen with top tuners and it is happening more than ever.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I'm the guy waving all the cars out and getting them in order, before the parade lap. What an amazing day!!!!!!


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

John, I know we haven't always seen eye to eye but I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy! I know how it feels to be let down with your pride and joy and know what pain the decision must have caused you.
I hope you recover from this and come back fighting mate, I'm sure I've got some parts I can spare when the time comes.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Good to have to back  :thumbsup: Thank you for the offer, very kind of you. To be honest I think it's a case of too much water under the bridge and not enough of a bridge left to stand on. I guess I'm all out of fight and would rather just put an end to this very sad and sorry tale


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

That Donington day was a day to remember John. Especially as i had arrived with my deafiningly loud 'R' spec racing exhaust (from the white beast itself) (and it's still going strong even though i had to weld it recently)...and having you at the front of the parade was as always exciting, a pleasure and a humbling experience in itself.
Always following in your footsteps and happy to do so.:thumbsup: Uncle(well, sort of)..pmsl


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## chas (Sep 19, 2003)

*Bad news John*

Shocking that it's turned out like this. Prob best to have a time out for a year or two then the bug will eat away at you again and you'll be back with a renewed enthusiasm. If I was you I would hold back a cpl of those special bits that you can salvage, I made the mistake of selling up everything before when I thought I was "finished" with them, It's a mistake I wont make again. 

Charlie.


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## alpeag (Dec 1, 2006)

Thats both sad and horrific!! can't believe someone in the close nit community of the skyline world can do this.
John, I hope its not too long before you feel the need to own a skyline again!


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Another very funny moment in your car John..... myself and Scott having to 'take turns' in the back...nothing unsual most people would think, but with rock hard suspension and NO back seats, it was a journey to remember. That and the overwhelming heat in the car from the car running hot and having the heater on to dissipate the heat.....lol.....
Great day. Thankyou.


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## Bajie (Dec 13, 2001)

John, I can't help you out with parts except for a couple of Extremely High Quality Chinese Turbo's I bought which I was advised not to use as would cost me a new engine .... but more than happy to make my way to your neck of the woods with Whoopie and get you proper Rat Arsed!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Excellent idea! Maybe we should have a wak for the car


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## Bajie (Dec 13, 2001)

Fuggles said:


> Excellent idea! Maybe we should have a wak for the car


Wak ... I'll bring me baseball bat


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## Clive S-P (Aug 8, 2008)

I hope that was meant to say wake and not something else :chuckle::chuckle:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

oops! yes


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

I only re-read the article on your car in Jap Performance the other week.
I cant understand how a car with this spec has ended up like this?

You must rebuild the car or take legal action-however complex John.

Really sorry to read this


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

Really sorry to see this John.

Got to say tho i met Gary Passingham once at RAF Marham and within 10 seconds of him opening his mouth i knew he was a c*** !


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## neptune tuning (Jul 12, 2007)

Hi,
Really sad about it,surely with everyone here always have bits & pieces to spare,we must be able to help (donate the bits if not too expensive) & a good garage (charge bit cheaper),we must be able to help our chairman to restore his car to former glory. What do you guys feel?
Ken


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## Thrust (Jun 8, 2004)

Only just popped in to see what this thread was all about and I am sitting here in shock. 

All these months I have been waiting expectantly for your car to reappear. Never for one moment have I doubted that it would be back and better than ever, very soon.

The reason I bought an R33 was to join GTROC as a proper member and sort of shadow you unthreateningly. (Very Japanese?) I knew my car would never reach the level of yours. Driving to Donnington and back yours was so quick on the motorway, and on the track you thundered past me repeatedly. 

Now I feel like offering my car to you to use as a new launching pad... :bawling:


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## Bajie (Dec 13, 2001)

Thrust said:


> Now I feel like offering my car to you to use a new launching pad... :bawling:


:thumbsup: Car Share :thumbsup:


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## Thrust (Jun 8, 2004)

Bajie said:


> :thumbsup: Car Share :thumbsup:


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :smokin:

Should have a pallet of parts shipping in the next few weeks...


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Far too many offers and far too generous all of you. Either there is something wrong with the water where you are or the pubs open early! 

It's not what's missing. It's not what's been done. It's not what needs to be done. It's not the money (okay I lied). But it is the sheer size of the task, the lack of will to continue with it and the very real and very practical realisation that it would make more sense, financially, and from a time perspective, to start again. Putting it all back together it would never be the same - some parts cannot be sourced any more, some parts it's just too difficult to remember what we had. A huge part of building the car over the years was working out the very best components, using things differently, putting things together, taking a different approach. To do the same again wont be the same, it would either a carbon copy or just a shallow replication. I would rather just do something completely different, but not sure what yet! :chuckle:


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> Far too many offers and far too generous all of you. Either there is something wrong with the water where you are or the pubs open early!
> 
> It's not what's missing. It's not what's been done. It's not what needs to be done. It's not the money (okay I lied). But it is the sheer size of the task, the lack of will to continue with it and the very real and very practical realisation that it would make more sense, financially, and from a time perspective, to start again. Putting it all back together it would never be the same - some parts cannot be sourced any more, some parts it's just too difficult to remember what we had. A huge part of building the car over the years was working out the very best components, using things differently, putting things together, taking a different approach. To do the same again wont be the same, it would either a carbon copy or just a shallow replication. I would rather just do something completely different, but not sure what yet! :chuckle:


Fair enough... and to be honestly 100% agree...
With that said... I shall offer my only advice...

"You know you always secretly wanted a R32"


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## SteveC (Jul 2, 2001)

Hi John,

Saw your status on FB and thought I'd check out the story on here... 

I'm truly gutted for you I hope you don't have to go without GTRness for too long, 9 years out for me and I still yearn to have another one...

although I also fancy something a bit more hardcore for track use too. The GTR is the ultimate compromise, if you are having a few years out then maybe the R35 will be within reach when you start looking again.

sorry for your woes John.

Cheers
Steve


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> Far too many offers and far too generous all of you. Either there is something wrong with the water where you are or the pubs open early!
> 
> It's not what's missing. It's not what's been done. It's not what needs to be done. It's not the money (okay I lied). But it is the sheer size of the task, the lack of will to continue with it and the very real and very practical realisation that it would make more sense, financially, and from a time perspective, to start again. Putting it all back together it would never be the same - some parts cannot be sourced any more, some parts it's just too difficult to remember what we had. A huge part of building the car over the years was working out the very best components, using things differently, putting things together, taking a different approach. To do the same again wont be the same, it would either a carbon copy or just a shallow replication. I would rather just do something completely different, but not sure what yet! :chuckle:




I understand how you feel John but dont give up!!

There are people here willing to help out with parts and time so I hope thats enough for you not to just walk away?

Read that Jap Performance article again and see if it may sway your decision:thumbsup:


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## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

Hmm perhaps, we should all not buy any of the parts you put up for sale!

That way your forced to keep it 

Remember how the skyline smile is before you sell it !

Ron


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Excellent! I like your thinking 
I wonder if the wife would like a new RB26 coffee table? :chuckle:


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Excellent! I like your thinking
> I wonder if the wife would like a new RB26 coffee table? :chuckle:


Oh she would! As you know John all of us are gutted and I was amazed meeting the chap concerned - had I known I would have run him over, twice!

I think everyone from Gary in his Tank (sorry Gary sorry - Stagea) to R32-R35 guys all wish you the best and my god you are going to be battered at the AGM with all the drinks to cry into! I am browsing Autotrader as we speak for you ;-)


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

ROG350Z said:


> As you know John all of us are gutted and I was amazed meeting the chap concerned - had I known I would have run him over, twice!


Said chap did have the gaul to come up to me at JAE and ask me for directions to one of the traders. I managed to reply politely before walking off. Perhaps you should have been there and you could have given him some alternative directions


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> Said chap did have the gaul to come up to me at JAE and ask me for directions to one of the traders. I managed to reply politely before walking off. Perhaps you should have been there and you could have given him some alternative directions




Not sure how you managed to keep calm

Dont give up on this John -a 700bhp car is not worth walking away from so easily


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

not even close to 700 HP with what I was left with..... two blocks, no head, lots of bits 'missing', suspension parts no longer attached, a loom that has been left to rot. The list of 'problem parts' is huge, the list of 'missing' parts equally huge. The list of usable parts is decidedly small


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> not even close to 700 HP with what I was left with..... two blocks, no head, lots of bits 'missing', suspension parts no longer attached, a loom that has been left to rot. The list of 'problem parts' is huge, the list of 'missing' parts equally huge. The list of usable parts is decidedly small




And you managed to remain calm?
I would of jumped on him and beat some sense into him:chairshot


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

I still don't understand how this can be.

It is the same as robbery...
If someone came to me for a set of coilovers, installation, and tracking...

When they return I give them a car with no suspension, missing suspension arms, and no wheels...

HOW CAN I POSSIBLY GET AWAY WITH IT WITHOUT GETTING :chairshot :chairshot :chairshot

I just don't understand it... if this guy is in another country... he would of been hit with a 12 gauge shot gun!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

The company is being folded, has debts and no assets so there is nothing to go after. The lists of missing or no good are subject to his word versus mine. The whole thing is not helped by my years of patience; maybe I shouldn't have been so nice about it all.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

The reality is, it's too much to start again and chasing him through the courts wouldn't achieve anything that would change the outcome.


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## Phil69 (Sep 13, 2006)

Somehow managed to miss this thread until now and have just read the entire thing word for word in utter disbelief.

SO SO sorry to hear this John. I remember the time we 1st met at an RAF Marham track day a few years back and you took me out in the beast for a few laps. I believe it had a misfire at high revs at the time but the experience was still mind blowing. It was that moment that set me on my quest for more power.

I cant understand how someone could have the balls to do this. Ok, the company is going under but that gives him NO RIGHT what so ever to drag someone else down with him.

As for the directions at JAE....seriously, did he not realise it was you? Thats like he was taking the P*** to see what else he could get away with. If anyone else knew what was going on, I'm pretty sure there would of been a very different outcome.

I appreciate that you've made your decision on what you're going to do but if for any reason you do decide to change your mind, even though I cant offer parts, I can offer a huge car workshop with 4 poster ramp and secure space to keep the car in as well as me as a technician who loves spending time on ANYONES Skyline.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Well that assumes he understands what he has done. To this date he will happily tell everyone that the problems he has with his business (he has gone bust twice at least to my knowledge) are not his fault! He blames all sorts of people for what has happened to him. He genuinely has no remorse and believes he did the best he could. As for the 'missing bits' that's exactly what he believes - they either went missing or other people stole them. I am sure there is a term for this probably self-delusional or something.


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## jim-lm (Mar 15, 2005)

Fuggles said:


> I am sure there is a term for this probably self-delusional or something.



The terms that come to my mind are 

THIEF, LIAR, LOW LIFE, WAN*ER..!!!! I see gary hasn't got the balls to come on here the piece of sh*t that he is.....


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

Jim well said and well done :thumbsup:


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

jim-lm said:


> THIEF, LIAR, LOW LIFE, WAN*ER..!!!! I see gary hasn't got the balls to come on here the piece of sh*t that he is.....


He's probably been called worse, I'm certain there's someone else on here who has suffered as a result of his workmanship. Can't say any more - I'd have to kill you otherwise


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

The problem isn't just the "missing bits", it's also the way it has been looked after, bits gouged and scratched, loom that has been sitting getting damp, a cage that has been described as anything but a safety device, poor workmanship so far. The sad and simple reality is to get the car back would involve undoing all the work done, sourcing ££££s worth of bits to replace what's no longer there, finding new bits that were planned anyway, buying new bits to replace those so badly damaged or not in good shape owing to what has happened etc. 

Actually I am quite resigned to the fate of the car now and this forum has been very helpful in that, so thank you to all those who contributed and to those that offered to help - there are some amazing people out there! Sadly I no longer have the funds to embark on what would be a complete new project of this scale - as that is what it would have to be, and maybe I also no longer have the desire to pursue this project anyway


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Fuggles said:


> The reality is, it's too much to start again and chasing him through the courts wouldn't achieve anything that would change the outcome.


Yeah but it would add to his grief and as much as it would be effort for you, I would report the items to the police as theft and then pursue the rest through the small claims court.

Even if after all that he does walk away at least he will have to deal with the stress of it all


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

The problem is I would have to prove he took them and not that one of his staff or someone else. He's moved locations twice while he has had the car so that also adds a lot more people to the list of suspects. I have a friendly copper mate so will ask, it's an interesting idea. Oh, and why has he moved locations twice? hmmmmmmmm


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

Hopefully this thread will make it more difficult for him to operate when he starts up his next business.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

He's not going out on his own again he tells me


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## Clive S-P (Aug 8, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> He's not going out on his own again he tells me


I take you mean not going out in public on his own again. Lol

He will have a crick in his neck from looking over his shoulder!


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Well I think any potential employers should know that the person they are employing can't be trusted around customers cars


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Well, one customer. He had others remember. I am sure some of them have their own stories to tell as well but that's not for me to disclose


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

Fuggles said:


> He's not going out on his own again he tells me


(Scratches chin) Jimmy Hill


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

and there are plenty of those.... AL Star for one, me for another.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Without wishing to make this a 'bandwagon' maybe you should be able to tell your version of events as should Al. Please jump in the water's fine!


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

Mine is tame and inexpensive by comparrison to yours but I think indicitive of the man and his practices going back many years!

When I brought my last GTSt in from Japan I knew it was extensivly modified, but the documentation was a little light so when it arrived I went through it and established what I could. It had on a HKS F Con V ECU that very few people were prepared to map, GT-ART were happy/able to do so though. 

so we agreed that I would send my car down to him to a establish what mods were in place and then for it to be mapped according to those mods with potentially some upgrades if required.

So I arranged transport and printed out a list of what I knew was on the car both modified and standard, i checked that it arrived okay and was told it would be looked at in the next few days.

about 4 weeks went by and despite chasing daily nothing happend until I said I was no longer prepared to wait and would come and collect the car, amazingly a slot then opened up and I would have the report the next day.

the next day I was faxed a copy of the printout I sent with the car along with a quote for £3k worth of parts required to make it run correctly and an invoice for £350 for the investigation. When I challenged what investigation they had actually done I was told that if I argued the bill would go up to £850 and they would keep my car if I didn't pay.

I collected the car, paid the £350 and winced every time someone I knew used them.

oh and I changed the ecu to a PFC, installed some new injectors, had it mapped and ran it perfectly for over 2 years....


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I have found out today that the business is not being wound up as the result of a failure but is simply being closed down. In other words the company is still, in theory at least, profitable. In that case it may be worth taking legal action to try and reclaim something. Not sure yet but have already started the consultation process


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> I have found out today that the business is not being wound up as the result of a failure but is simply being closed down. In other words the comapny is still, in theory at least, profitable. In that case it may be worth taking legal action to try and reclaim something. Not sure yet but have already started the consultation process




Great news John.

You have the support of all the members here.

The car was left with him to work on so even if a member of staff did remove and sell the parts he is responsible.

Hes a disgrace to Skyline tuners who needs to be dealt with by the courts.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

I will be seeking to clarify the forums legal position on "naming and shaming" when I get a chance, to see if there is a way of letting people tell thier stories without putting the forum in jeapordy. Hopefully then we can avoid people getting stung by the same people.

I'll keep the forum posted

mook


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

If there's capital about, at all, get after it before he flogs everything and removes the money from the company.


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## Clive S-P (Aug 8, 2008)

Perhaps he was happy to let you think the business has failed so you didn't bother to go after him.

For the life of me I don't understand how 'Companies' think they can treat their customer like shit and think they will have a good reputation... or any customers, once word gets round.
Especially in a community like Skylines which is essentially a village.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Mookistar said:


> I will be seeking to clarify the forums legal position on "naming and shaming" when I get a chance, to see if there is a way of letting people tell thier stories without putting the forum in jeapordy. Hopefully then we can avoid people getting stung by the same people.


I have not mentioned anyone or any company so there is no need to consider your position on this.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Fuggles said:


> I have not mentioned anyone or any company so there is no need to consider your position on this.


I think he meant for future issues such as this.

In my eyes it gives both parties the opportunity to discuss in a civilised manner in a public forum - if neither have nothing to hide and contest each others version of events then what better way (apart from court)


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

The chap knows who he is so it's for him to come and join the debate should he wish


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Fuggles said:


> The chap knows who he is so it's for him to come and join the debate should he wish


Maybe he can offer you his car as compensation :smokin:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> I have not mentioned anyone or any company so there is no need to consider your position on this.


you misunderstand. This is the first case of a tuner turning someone over since the transfer, so It will be worthwhile knowing our position. Certainly if it allows people to tell thier tales, it may save future broken hearts.

mook


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

Damn. I never saw this thread. 
Anyway.....John I'm sure youre aware of some of my previous in this case (theres plenty more) and I also have access to another case brought to said garage/tuner, as well as my own experience, then you also have the knowledge of others that have spent over a hundred thousand that have left and moved on. I would say pursue if you can, try and close the loop holes and maybe even tie your losses to him directly.

I know alot of stories from customers, its just absolutely amazing that these people keep their mouths shut, God knows why???? Some stay for a prolonged mouthful of verbal diarrhea, get raped and say do it again. I got done once and fought to get it put straight, that took long enough and still not to total satisfaction.

People on here find it easy to talk and say "yeah I would have done this or that", fortunately or unfortunately its generally typed hype from a fantasy land in a monitor. As for myself I changed my ways many years ago.......fortunately for Gary. No hype!


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

see what I mean...


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I have not mentioned anyone or any company so there is no need to consider your position on this.


I think I read he was named earlier in the thread so might want to check that out. As for the position the Director (I assume he was) of a Limited Company has responsibilities for the running of the company for I think 3-5 years or something even after closing down and cannot simply shut down and run away. You may have Limited Liability for the company and finances but the 'potential' and I use that word advisedly criminality of taking money and then not delivering and product or service along with 'theft' of equipment owned by you while under their duty of carte I would have thought you had a very strong case.

You certainly have the total and utter support of every single owner, poster and contributor on here I would like to wager. To be honest if someone can out Ryan Giggs online then I think this is a bit trivial..... (don't worry Mook I was joking and wasn't going to jeopardise the integrity of the forum!)


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

along the lines of those "Intel inside" stickers maybe I should get some "N15MO J inside" ones made up and give them out to people who buy bits  Or maybe give them to my recent tuner chapy and ask him to pass them on to the people he knows :chuckle:


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

I can't believe you haven't named and shamed the scum.

Major respect though John, I would be doing a 25 year stretch for murder if that was my car and I was treated in that regard.


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

can i name and shame ?  :lamer:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Apparently Mook thinks it might not be advisable from our new owners to name the company 
Maybe I should get my lawyer to come on here and name them


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

you dont have to nor does mook i may slip and spell it


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

There can't be many people that don't know/haven't guessed 
The simple truth is right now I just wantt to out what's left and then make a decision on what to do next. 'Naming and shaming' wont change anything and the chap says he's not going to work for himself any more so there seems little point.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

But anyone at the AGM and dinner in a couple of weeks, all you have to do is buy me enough beer to get me drunk! :blahblah:


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

i dont no who it is .... Gary? gt...


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

and i dont go to agm's


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

but a dinner with pre-dinner drinks, wine and much more all paid for by Desira, Lichfield, CATDT and Nissan?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> Apparently Mook thinks it might not be advisable from our new owners to name the company
> Maybe I should get my lawyer to come on here and name them


That's not what I said At all. Name away if you like.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Sorry. Wasn't intending to misrepresent you, that's just how I read it


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

gary passingham GT-ART

such a man hasnt come and say hi...


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

I must be going cross eyed but I thought the name was on the thread several times already!


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

it is but just playing along :thumbsup:


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

so no more jokes about about bathtub white gtr 

I know you want to put your money into new things but getting a old GTR to run around in wouldn't break the bank even a stock one


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Yes indeed. R34 GTV is fine for now. Want to have a clean break before deciding what to do next


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## jaycabs (Nov 16, 2007)

tonigmr2 said:


> I must be going cross eyed but I thought the name was on the thread several times already!


A quick blast in your GTR will sort those crossed eyes out toni


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Just an obsertvation Mook but as long as what John has said is factual there can be no problem with any naming.

Its not as if it is solely the quaility of the mans work that is in question , that after all is subjective and therefore posting opinions about this could be considered as unwise 

But giving him a whole car to work on and not getting half of it all back certainly isnt subjective. Its not an opinion, it is completely factual and is hardly open to misrepresentation .


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I agree with Brian.. It's black and white.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

It's not so much about black and White as any legal threat needs response ding to properly, which costs money. That's the problem with the Internet and "libel"

Mook


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

well in this instance if Mr Passingham has enough money to start legal proceedings I would think he would have enough money to compensate John!


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

I think if there was any in justice on Johns side, Gary would of been on here to sort things out.
Imho John has been very calm about his pride and joy being stripped and ruined for no real reason.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

There are always two sides to every argument and this thread was not about any potential course of action or to shame anyone more a lament for a very tough decision brought on by a very sad end to a very long story. If I decide to pursue tese matters then I will do so through proper channels and after full consideration. As it stands today however I have spent almost an entire day logiing and recording everything, such as two five point harnesses....... both with only four harnesses attached, the remainder is missing! I have a list of items like this longer than i have a list of items to be sold.


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## Booty-licious (Nov 8, 2001)

Crikey John...very sad news!! Don't know what to say..very upset!!!!

:bawling:


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## signalr32 (Mar 21, 2011)

Man,

I first posted a week or when ever ago on this thread feeling horrible..Now I am in the same boat with the tuner that has been giving me the run around.. After I pulled my car i asked for over 20 parts that belonged to me, most I know he lost, and he just said "what parts." 

I drove my car the other night for the first time in 4 years.. Just around the block.. Man I cried...Cause the cost of now fixing what they broke and lost is just to much for me to bear at the moment. I just wanted my car fixed...

I now totally feel for you more than ever.. Screw the shop, as you know what put your time and energy towards doing something else. Karma will one day remind that person of the wrong doing to you. 

SO SAD ... I am crying right now :bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling::bawling:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Mate, I would never wish what has happened to me on anyone. It is gut wrenching in the extreme. If you have evidence of what was supplied maybe try through the legal system. In the UK we have the "small claims court" which is relatively cheap to pursue and doesn't need lawyers. I really hope yours gets sorted and you can get the car back that you wanted. Really sorry for you and hope it all comes good in the end


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## signalr32 (Mar 21, 2011)

Yeah we have small claims as well, but everything was done with a hand shake.. You can see from my previous posts on the forum the trouble I been having... Its sad cause in Los Angeles, just about every shop here would DIE to work on a GT-R and say they did it... These guys got to the finish line, stopped and said we want a trophy, and everyone looked at them like WTF... 

Its just sad.. The car now is sitting in my garage and I just want to strip it down and figure out whats wrong... I just have no idea though, especially if its not a coil pack.


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

Could someone PM the contact details for Gary as he still owes me paperwork and his number and email do not seem to work.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

<<removed>>


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## Phil69 (Sep 13, 2006)

We'll all try it now!


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## SPEED MERCHANT (Jun 5, 2006)

Nocturnal said:


> "You know you always secretly wanted a R32"


:thumbsup:

John ... words fail me to be honest as I think everyone else has covered all the bases with what can be said to this to be honest. At the end of the day whatever course of action you take I know will be the right one as you think these things through before acting and that eventually you will have another legendary Skyline or GTR to own ...

Sad news none the less & karma will hopefully be a huge bitch to those deserving ... I feel a chav sacrifice coming on 

In terms of your number plate I believe it is still yours from the brief trawl I've had over the databases as you still own the car and your on the V5. However I'd act now being safer than sorry and get it on a retainer as soon as possible :thumbsup:


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Sorry to say but I think I am right...



> Conditions for retaining a registration number
> 
> To retain the registration number, the vehicle must be:
> -registered at the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA)
> ...


Retaining a registration mark and how to apply : Directgov - Motoring

You also need an MOT it appears.



> How to apply
> Send the following to your nearest DVLA local office:
> 
> -a completed V317;application to transfer or retain a vehicle registration number;
> ...


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## SPEED MERCHANT (Jun 5, 2006)

I'll admit I haven't read the entire thread so missed this Toni.

I think however John would have a case if he contacts DVLA with the circumstances because when I bought my plate years ago the original vehicle came into question as it had been off road for many years without tax etc. To cut a long story short they eventually allowed the previous owner to put the VRM on a retainer before selling to me.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

tonigmr2 said:


> Sorry to say but I think I am right...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so long as the car has been sorn'd it wil be fine.


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

John...How did it all come to this?

I'm really really sorry to hear about your misfortune and cannot believe it.

I hope your able to access some recourse from all of this drama.

I still remember the magic of the White blurr that was your R33GTR storming down Jurby airfield and taking victory for the GTROC on our trip to the Isle of Mann many year ago. 

Those were good days!

Gav


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I guess it came to this because I genuinely believed in the guy and wanted to support him. I knew his business was struggling so tried to work with him to allow him to do small profitable jobs on other cars while working on my car inbetween. The project was not just an engine rebuild but a complete strip down and rebuild of the entire car; chassis, suspension, everything. At the same time lighten it (we even cut some of the floor out) and put a cage in. I don't know how or why so much is missing but it is. I would prefer to leave my comments there and wait until I hear back from said tuner.....or not


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Simonh said:


> so long as the car has been sorn'd it wil be fine.


No I don't think so. Sorn'd AND MOT'd. But like Speedy says, I think you could swing it.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

having only had m,y car sorn'd for the last 4 years getting it taxed and mot'd on the plate that was on it was no issue at all.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

My cars been sorned for 4 years also. That's the whole point of sorn. The car is off the road so why would it be mot'd?


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

I am pleased you are now sorting this out John.
I understand Gary is short of money but why cant he sell his own cars to refund you back?!


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## jaycabs (Nov 16, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> My cars been sorned for 4 years also. That's the whole point of sorn. The car is off the road so why would it be mot'd?


Exactly , I think mine has been sorn even longer than that and havent mot'd it either.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

It's only an issue if you want to transfer the plate off.:thumbsup:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Can I respectfully ask one thing?........

This issue relates to my car and the man responsible for the state of affairs that has been deposited at my door. It has no bearing on any other tuner or company and in that regard they are completely irrelevant to the debate and I would wish that they are not dragged into something that is not of their doing nor happened on their watch. Employing people is a decision only for the employer and employee. My issue isnot with that but what happened before.

Thank you


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

To be fair to anyone not involved in what has happened I am sure some care little for what did happen other than to help where they can. In that regard a lot of people have helped including those who can do today and who are in a position to help. For that reason I would ask that those not party to what happen are not dragged into this. Thank you


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Can we keep the thread on track please? Gary Passingham has now found employment elsewhere and references to his new employer need to be kept off here to avoid any conflict or embarrassment to them. They have not got to where they are by making wrong decisions so let's just assume that they are aware of the situation and have employed him on his abilities as an engine builder/tuner rather than for his business sense. It doesn't always follow that someone who is good at doing a job can get it to translate well into a business. Everyone is now aware that he (GT-ART) was responsible for what's happened to Fuggles car so to involve anyone else in the discussion is not really relevant.

Thanks, TAZZ


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## SPEED MERCHANT (Jun 5, 2006)

Well if anyone is on that companies mailing list their last email (that I got yesterday) has a large announcement anyway!


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## Phil69 (Sep 13, 2006)

Where did my post go??


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Phil69 said:


> Where did my post go??


It was deleted along with some others as they were taking the thread off track and could've led to some embarrassment that the forum is anxious to avoid.


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## Phil69 (Sep 13, 2006)

Fair enough....although it was directly related to the person involved and where they were going.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

That's true, but John wants this thread for his car, not for a dicussion on a failed tuners career trajectory.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Surely if he has a history of taking bits off of peoples cars then it is best that the tuning community know about it and know where he is.

This isn't anything to do with his personal business, this is to do with him stealing parts off of someones pride and joy.

I'm glad I know, rather than put my car in with somneone who I thought could be trusted only to find out someone like him is now working there.

Businesses are built on reputation and reputation comes from customers - be it good or bad. People come on here and sing the praises of tuners, who have no objection to that and we in turn as potential customers do our research on such pages as these and make our informed decisions.


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## Gary&Amanda (Feb 10, 2011)

i might mention this thread accidentally when im down there next


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

tonigmr2 said:


> That's true, but John wants this thread for his car


JIC it wasn't clear last time. Please.


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## herman (Apr 1, 2007)

*car*

i must say im with mikegtr on this one,i wouldnt use a company he"s woking for or anything to do with with his history.as many others really sorry to hear off your bad news regarding the workmanship on your car john.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

John, sorry to hear!

the same thing happened to me when i first got in to the car scene, i sent off my first "sporty" ahtch to the UK to a supposed tuner there, who managed to "loose" my entier car, and then file for bankruptcy even after we won the court case against him for compensation and all that, he was a sneaky little shit and basically had nothing to his name, so i was out a car and legal fees, and he is now back to work in a new shop, and with some of the same people he screwed over....very strange. So i get where you must be coming from.

What needs to be done to the car to get it done right btw? PM me if you dont want to put it all here, im just wondering.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Rain said:


> What needs to be done to the car to get it done right btw? PM me if you dont want to put it all here, im just wondering.


Too much. :bawling: This is a complete list of everything that is left and sellable. It's a very short list! http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/157170-lots-aftermarket-parts-my-r33-gt-r.html


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

All of the wiring has been so badly looked after it has corroded ends and has been stored in a damp box. it now looks very much like this:


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

=/

its harsh, im so used to seeing the guys in the US building cars in their shops, everything all neat and laid out, hard to imagine how you can "store" someones property like that.

Im glad you are taking all your stuff back John, hopefully you will gather yourself and get back in to a GT-R soon!

All the best!


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

MIKEGTR said:


> Surely if he has a history of taking bits off of peoples cars then it is best that the tuning community know about it and know where he is.
> 
> This isn't anything to do with his personal business, this is to do with him stealing parts off of someones pride and joy.
> 
> ...




What Mike said


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## M19 GTR (May 26, 2002)

Was his dyno not for sale recently? i heard it was offered around to a few tuning company's up this neck of the woods. Was over £40K too, maybe something to think about.

He tried it with me back in 2004 with my R33GTR gave me a bill of £7500 for a standard rebuild, that never went down to well. I pulled out from then as i saw what he was about. Then never looked back since.

Feel for you John, but still think there is something you can do as he must have something on his name of some value.

Tony


Tony


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I knew some people had issues with him but you always think it's a 50:50 situation and are only ever hearing one side. The more I hear the more I realise how wrong I was


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

The problem being, almost 100% of the time i have noticed on most UK forums, that admins are too afraid to get in to a legal situation when it comes to putting up negative reviews of a company/tuner. Its all to easy for whichever company to send the admins an e-mail saying they will sue if its not removed, so ACTUAL negative criticisms are hardly heard. Notice i said most UK forums, not this one specifically! 

Maybe the one good thing about the new ownership of the forum (depending how they go about legal threats) would be a proper way for people to vent their frustrations at a company, with the ability for that company to speak up for themselves. I know GTR.co.uk has done this before, so maybe people were not voicing their opinions ?

I think (personally) it would be very beneficial, to the community of owners (and shop owners) if we set up a company review section, of course with the ability to let whatever company voice their appreciation to good reviews, as much as answer for negative ones, just an idea. Its being done on many other forums based in the US.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

In my time as a moderator, we've not pulled a thread due to legal threats from a tuner or company. For some time we've had a right of reply policy, we do prune out the commenters, then things are locked but still visible.

TBH John I've been round a few tuners and the stories you hear were no bad or worse than GTART. I don't think you could've known, though that is cold comfort I know.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Yeah i know, i said ive seen a few threads like that here, but i mean having a dedicated Tuner Review area, would be helpful..i think anyway, you guys are the mods and admins, its your call


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

I'm waiting on clarification on the legal aspects of such a section


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## jim-lm (Mar 15, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> I'm waiting on clarification on the legal aspects of such a section


:thumbsup: It's about time.. Some of the people new to skylines/gtr's on here would of learnt a lesson with rc developments / car planet racing..

Now with gary and GT-ART..

I feel that we need this-needed this so people can read the comments and make their own minds up.. 

We are a community after all and need to share all experiences good and bad with companys and tuners, plus with people selling on here or buying.:thumbsup:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Surely posting ones experiences is not liablous much in the same way a derogoritory story is printed in the press, unless the story is fictitious and even then the people involved have the right to reply


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Basically, the forum have no way of verifying a story, we have to remain impartial. If a tuner decides to threaten the forum with legal action, we cannot afford to risk the fight so have to take down the posts. True or not 

Mook


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## Swobber (Oct 8, 2006)

Guys - trustpilot.com is what you need !


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

or, to put it another way....... I doubt the money that one tuner could have sought through legal actions from previous complaints would come close to the amount of money I am currently kissing goodbye to!


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

I dont see how larger Subaru community forums such as NASIOC or IWSTI can have those sections, and have saved me A LOT of heart ache. 

I know different countries etc, but still, it gives the tuner the right to defend themselves, its not as if you are posting with out the right to reply/self defense or clarification.

Anyway, was just a thought.


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Rain said:


> I dont see how larger Subaru community forums such as NASIOC or IWSTI can have those sections, and have saved me A LOT of heart ache.
> 
> I know different countries etc, but still, it gives the tuner the right to defend themselves, its not as if you are posting with out the right to reply/self defense or clarification.
> 
> Anyway, was just a thought.


If it's do-able I think Rain's idea is a great one!:thumbsup:
It can only go to improve the quality of the services/products and feedback all round as long as it used in a grown up manner and not abused!
Each and every one of us has probably been treated unfairly in the past and usually we just take it in the proverbial. It would be nice to be able to feel as if there is an option to resolve such issues fairly for both parties involved.
Look forward to seeing how this progresses!

Bob


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Last few days if anyone is interested. After this weekend and the GTROC AGM that's it; the rest will be scrapped, junked or just scooped up
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/157170-lots-aftermarket-parts-my-r33-gt-r-5.html


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Everyone loves a trier, everyone loves a man with a sense of humour. So, after our telephone conversation on Thursday I today called and asked him what he had decided bearing in mind his comment about "I will try and put it right". So today he has asked for a list of the bits missing! Now, I'm no mechanic but I defy even the most experienced mechanic to list every single component part of a Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R !


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## SPEED MERCHANT (Jun 5, 2006)

Fuggles said:


> Everyone loves a trier, everyone loves a man with a sense of humour. So, after our telephone conversation on Thursday I today called and asked him what he had decided bearing in mind his comment about "I will try and put it right". So today he has asked for a list of the bits missing! Now, I'm no mechanic but I defy even the most experienced mechanic to list every single component part of a Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R !


To which your reply will be ...

"The list above & pretty much the whole car barr the shell & wheels" ...

:chuckle:


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## PMJ (Sep 11, 2001)

*Box of bits*

Give him back the box of bits and the full spec list that you last had listed...then let him supply you with the value or a car of that spec.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

If he wasn't closing down the company and "walking away" I would. Though judge by his past performance i'm not sure that would ever amount to anything anyway, he'd still not do anything


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## Phil69 (Sep 13, 2006)

PMJ said:


> Give him back the box of bits.......


He'd probably sell the rest of that off as well!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

first funny thing I've heard in a while. Thank you


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Thrust said:


> Now I feel like offering my car to you to use as a new launching pad... :bawling:


Yet more humbling words from a long standing member. You can buy me a beer next time I see you and we can chat about old times instead


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## gtsm (Jan 14, 2002)

hi john havent been around for a long time but am sorry to see this happen hope you get it sorted or salvage what you can and look forward to the next project i miss mine all the time expecialy as got here back mobile then sold here but thats life other things come up just keep thinking one day will have another one and have a break from it all 

hope you are ok and sorry to hear this 

lee


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Fuggles said:


> The chap knows who he is so it's for him to come and join the debate should he wish


He is aware of this thread and has decided not to join the debate. Draw your own conclusions


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## Phil69 (Sep 13, 2006)

What a surprise. To be fair, I wouldnt want to show my face in his position either.
Do you know if his new work place are aware of this by now??


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

off to see the pile of bits for the last itme. WHat has been sold/will be sold will be sorted, before the shell is taken away to be crushed as it's too dangerous now to sell to anyone


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## jim-lm (Mar 15, 2005)

I wonder if Gary's new employer knows about this thread as well. I would as his new boss make him sort this out. 

I think Gary should come on here and explain what happened and be a man and sort this out.


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## herman (Apr 1, 2007)

*shell*

john,wouldnt gary be intrested in buying the shell off you?:nervous::nervous: its the very least he could do!! never met him,never want to,sounds like a total tw*t.herd afew horror stories must admit and like otrhers have said no comment on this thread says it all for me,totaly guilty of all the above..good luck for the future john.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Late to the party. But read most of this thread and i'm incredulous. 

Sorry to read this John. Hope something good comes along soon.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

I decided not to use Gary when I made an appointment at his work shop for him to check my car out after I had just bought it (8 years or so ago.)
He didnt turn up until 2 hours later than we had agreed and still charged me £60 for the 20 minutes he spent looking at my car!!

From then on I used Abbey and never looked back.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Glad his business has failed, sounds like he deserved it


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

As much as he may have had it coming, you shouldnt take pleasure in other peoples failure man, some people just dont have what it takes to run everything they want.

Anyway this thread is kinda devolving from what it was yes? no?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Rain said:


> As much as he may have had it coming, you shouldnt take pleasure in other peoples failure man, some people just dont have what it takes to run everything they want.


And some people are plain theives and get what they deserve


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Maybe it's time to move on with this thread, Gary has probably had enough of a kicking on here now. 

I'm not going to defend what happened to John and his car but the forum has had it's say and Gary can't step in to this firefight while employed elsewhere and has endured this without having any say.

Gary is a friend and his work got my car to second place in the HKS drag series in 2010 at full weight against a lot of lighter and more powerful cars.

Gary has been responsible for some great engine builds over the years including let's not forget the Sumo 9s 34 and John Bradshaw's GTST in it's early days before Abbey took over so capably. 

Gary has mapped championship winning drift cars for the last two years. 

Gary has never been dishonest to me in all my dealings with him over 6 years.

It's sad when things don't turn out the way you expect. A divorce a recession and three and half years has passed for Gary since I towed John's car to a hotel where Gary was staying after it finally expired in clouds of smoking oil. It went down to GTaRt on a low loader the next morning. 

I feel for John seeing the car he loved get scrapped, but maybe with 20/20 hindsight he could have got it out earlier when problems were first apparent. 

I should have encouraged him to do that and do take some blame. Looking back now perhaps it wasn't altogether unpredicatable that parts might get lost over three premises moves and finally while parts were being skipped in the last few days before the barn had to be cleared.

I hope the new parts supplied by Gary and being offered for sale might offset some of John's monetary loss at least.

Let's not forget John started this thread to reminisce and remind everyone of the good years with his car not specifically to attack a tuner.


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

I think that is well said and deffo needs to be droped


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Lol love it. 

There must be nigh on £40k's worth of parts gone into that car and I bet John will be lucky to come away with £10k, I'd love to hear your opinions if this had happened to you. 

To sum up, the car was sent to have work done, parts were supplied and went missing, parts went missing off the car, work done to the car was dangerously bad and all over a three year time span. Yeah in hIndsight I'm sure John would have pulled the car out straight away, but unfortunately he probably had faith in his tuner due to other fanboys recommendations. 

I'm sure anyone who gets even close to this point where this guy is concerned in the future will have the sense to learn by johns mistakes. However how anyone can still say he's hard done by is beyond me


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

I have said what I have said, read my post.

John knew Gary as well as anyone, and had done for many years before this, and he had also done a lot of work on the car previously, I'm sure John made up his own mind and it was nothing to do with fanboys! 

I towed the car in after the engine expired after being driven 20 odd miles with with no water in it, there wasn't a lot left that was useable in that engine. Gary supplied a new HKS crank and a Veilside block which John is selling, the turbos are re-built and are at AET turbos. 

I don't want to say any more as I know both people involved.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

blue34 said:


> Gary supplied a new HKS crank and a Veilside block which John is selling, the turbos are re-built and are at AET turbos


I paid for those parts they were not "supplied". The turbos were part of the agreed price but to get them back I now have to pay AET! So paying twice just to get back parts that I have no use for!!!!!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

blue34 said:


> Maybe it's time to move on with this thread, Gary has probably had enough of a kicking on here now.


Gary is aware of this thread - he texted me to say so! He has every opportunity to respond and is a registered user of this forum. He has asked the thread be removed and deleted as it's "not fair".



blue34 said:


> Gary is a friend and ........


I used to think that!



blue34 said:


> It's sad when things don't turn out the way you expect. A divorce a recession and three and half years has passed for Gary since I towed John's car to a hotel where Gary was staying after it finally expired in clouds of smoking oil. It went down to GTaRt on a low loader the next morning.


I'm not sure what relevance his personal life has to my car or how bits like suspension componets, a bonnet, windscreens and countless other parts managed to go 'missing'. As for the recession he had a massive project car sitting in his shop for years that was waiting to be done but never got finished, only to be towed away less whatever parts are 'missing'



blue34 said:


> I feel for John seeing the car he loved get scrapped, but maybe with 20/20 hindsight he could have got it out earlier when problems were first apparent.


Don't I f***ing know it! I guess that's the price of loyalty!



blue34 said:


> Let's not forget John started this thread to reminisce and remind everyone of the good years with his car not specifically to attack a tuner.


This entry is my first 'attack' on anyone the rest of my comments are about what happened to the car. However there seems to be a considerable amount of interest in the 'back story' to the car so I feel obliged to give the slightest of glimpses into just how I feel right now and trust that is at least acceptable to some degree


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Malc, and others,
Whilst it seems like a guy is getting flamed, you have to look at the facts. 
Regardless of how good or bad a tuner he is, or what his personal life threw at him during the last few years, you can't just waver the fact that a total lack of respect for what was a good friend, but more importantly 'regular' customer saw the demise of a very expensive car. Not just 'a' car though is it. We are talking thousands and thousands of pounds. We are talking of trust and and obligation here. 
It's like saying Mirah Hindley was a damn good lolipop lady at the local school before she decided to go on a killing spree.
He has been extremely devious and deceiptful for his own benefit. Even if he did have family/business problems, you don't just start ripping people off.
Gary is more than welcome on here, even if it was just to say 'Hey everyone, i fcuked up big time and i'm really sorry.' But knowing Gary, he probably doesn't care too much apart from where his next wage slip is coming from. Anyone who has done what he has to John's car shows outright what a complete lack of respect for someone he has.
And so what if this thread is slamming it in his face. What the hell would you expect. 
Personally i think gary is an extremely lucky guy. There are not many people around like John who trust implicitly, and are loyal to the core and handle this the way he has. There are many that would have taken the nasty route. 
The fact that this thread is here is actually probably more beneficial for him than he thinks. Without it, the backlash of gossip around the tuning world would be ten fold worse and probably more damaging to his latest employer.
People make mistakes and people **** up, but jeees, he has gone over and beyond what any decent man would have help his hands up to ages ago.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

blue34 said:


> Maybe it's time to move on with this thread, Gary has probably had enough of a kicking on here now.
> 
> I'm not going to defend what happened to John and his car but the forum has had it's say and Gary can't step in to this firefight while employed elsewhere and has endured this without having any say.
> 
> ...




This topic can be dropped as soon as Gary sorts John out for his car.
If Gary is not man enough to get on here and explain himself why should anyone back off from him?
I would love to hear what you would be doing if this was your car and you were £40k out of pocket:chairshot


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

herman said:


> john,wouldnt gary be intrested in buying the shell off you?:nervous::nervous: its the very least he could do!! never met him,never want to,sounds like a total tw*t.herd afew horror stories must admit and like otrhers have said no comment on this thread says it all for me,totaly guilty of all the above..good luck for the future john.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


Several people have looked at the workmanship of the cage and said how dangerous it is, one decribed it as a box of javelins and today a chap said if it was to be in a crash I'd probably get speared! All things considered the best thing is to crush the car so it doesn't get used by someone else


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

Shocked to read this very long thread John.
Missed this as only pop in now and again but being in a hotel room has allowed me to read this from start to finish.
Not sure what I can say of any use other than I sold my car to pay off debt last year vowing never to return but due to an offer I could not refuse am back in a less powerful but not much slower car having fun again.
I think that you need to put this behind you and start again. Can't afford an R35? Just need a well sorted R32 that is not due a rebuild then  :thumbsup:


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## ANDY H (Mar 17, 2005)

John been to collect the bits this morning cheers!! And after seeing your shell I can see why it's being crushed! 
That cage is pathetic! 
Such a shame!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Not just pathetic. People whose opinion and nowledge I value in these matters have all condemned it and called it dangerous (or worse)
Glad you got your bits okay


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> Glad his business has failed, sounds like he deserved it


exactly what i thought, what a prick this guy is!!


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

blue34 said:


> Maybe it's time to move on with this thread, Gary has probably had enough of a kicking on here now.
> 
> im sure you wouldnt think that if it was your car tbh....?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

thank you. Good to see most people feel that the results of what happened are not acceptable for any reason


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

Fuggles said:


> thank you. Good to see most people feel that the results of what happened are not acceptable for any reason


if they didnt there probably blind! headlamps recieved! thankyou! :thumbsup:


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## skyrocker (Feb 14, 2005)

Just been reading this topic John. 

No words can describe how you must feel. You were a very loyal customer.
I am shocked.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Thanks mate. Just relaxing after the GTROC AGM and a very late night last night after the Annual Dinner. It was great that so many people came up to say how shocked/sorry they were to read all this. Even some of the Nissan Dealerships were aware of this thread and couldn't believe what they had read.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

How it looks now:


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## R4VENS (Jan 1, 2009)

Gee, that looks bad  btw sent u a PM.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> How it looks now:




Get to court mate and sort this bloke out.
Noone should have their car left looking like thatuke:


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## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

What goes around comes around. Hopefully someone rips him off and ruins his life.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

The picture is pretty much what i got left with. We have taken the wheels off and front cusco suspension parts as well as the boot and spoiler. Other than that, that's exactly what it looked like when I picked it up. if you look you can see the cage has a straight arm on the passenger side and a bent arm on the driver said. not sure which one is supposed to be correct! 

Here's a better picture of what I mean:


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## Moschops (Sep 3, 2002)

The upright bits at the B pillar are different too. I remember the first time I saw the pictures of the 'wrapped' strut tops and thinking WTF is that?!

I really feel for you John, if this happened to me I'd be totally devastated. It's so sad to see such a great car in this state. I really hope something good comes of all this (but I can't see what that might be yet) and this wrong is righted.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Booty-licious said:


> Crikey John...very sad news!! Don't know what to say..very upset!!!!


I swear, if you'd have seen what was left for real you would have been in tears, no two ways about it


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

Sorry to hear this John.

Hadn't spotted this thread until now. Is their nothing you can do legally (or borderline legally) to get a better resolve?

If it were me i'd certainly name & shame as you've nothing to lose:flame:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

for future ref, and John's if he wants to share, having spoken with the new owners of the Forum, there is no reason for the Mods to Step in and moderate posts which tell a customers story.

Obviously all tuners have a right to reply, and we will act if things appear malicious or unfair, but otherwise, in these circumstances, we can now let people tell thier sory.

mook


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Mookistar said:


> for future ref, and John's if he wants to share, having spoken with the new owners of the Forum, there is no reason for the Mods to Step in and moderate posts which tell a customers story.
> 
> Obviously all tuners have a right to reply, and we will act if things appear malicious or unfair, but otherwise, in these circumstances, we can now let people tell thier sory.
> 
> mook


Does that me previously locked threads can now be reopened if requested Mook?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

For fear of having to ban you again, I'll say No. Lol


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

M19 GTR said:


> Was his dyno not for sale recently? i heard it was offered around to a few tuning company's up this neck of the woods. Was over £40K too, maybe something to think about.
> 
> He tried it with me back in 2004 with my R33GTR gave me a bill of £7500 for a standard rebuild, that never went down to well. I pulled out from then as i saw what he was about. Then never looked back since.
> 
> ...


I will perhaps drop by his old venue and find out what the story is. Thanks for the heads-up


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## Glen (Jan 21, 2011)

No words can describe how you must feel. Nothing just disappears, specially if its in your own work shop. In my workshop, i know where everything is and what it goes into. 

A friend of mine had something similar happen to him, he imported a car, engine and parts got removed before he received it, he went to the guys house and almost killed him, luckily few mates were there to stop him doing anything too stupid. The guy had a few motors & car parts in his garage which were taken as payment.

If he has that dyno setup and if i were you, i would send a truck to collect it, also have a few big guys with you. Just remember theres a thing called karma, it will bite him in the arse.

I really hope you come out on top of this.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

It seems this whole sorry saga is not confined to a few dealerships. Speaking to some people at the recent Silverstone event to test the MY12 GT-R it seems all those NHPCs I spoke to were aware of the demise of my car and what has happened to it. makes you wonder how many other people have read about it and seen what has hapened yet not said anything publicly


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## 4wdnoob (Sep 1, 2009)

I popped into see a mate today who has his own business selling aftermarket parts for a variety of cars (he also owns a big power Skyline GTS-T and a Pulsar) he asked me "did you hear about that skyline performance place that has sold off a customers car in bits and left him with just a shell" so I filled him in on what has been said on here, he agree's its outright theft and is surprised nothing else has been done about it !

needless to say, if the new employer of the "tuner" thinks his employment wont affect business, they are clearly wrong.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

4wdnoob said:


> I popped into see a mate today ........... he asked me "did you hear about that skyline performance place that has sold off a customers car in bits and left him with just a shell"


Obviously I couldn't possibly comment


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## de wonderful (Apr 28, 2011)

Unbelievable - the car/tuner business just seems to attract this type of person unfortunately.


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## B0DSKI (Oct 31, 2011)

John
Stumbled upon this thread on 22B. I've posted a link up on Scoobynet as well.

To be honest I've the utmost respect for the way you've gone about dealing with this. I'm not sure I could remain so level headed with such appalling service. 

I think I speak for everybody on both 22B & Scoobynet in wishing you all the best. And I hope one day you can get back in something approaching the level of your old GTR


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

4wdnoob said:


> I popped into see a mate today who has his own business selling aftermarket parts for a variety of cars (he also owns a big power Skyline GTS-T and a Pulsar) he asked me "did you hear about that skyline performance place that has sold off a customers car in bits and left him with just a shell" so I filled him in on what has been said on here, he agree's its outright theft and is surprised nothing else has been done about it !
> 
> needless to say, if the new employer of the "tuner" thinks his employment wont affect business, they are clearly wrong.


So, do we know who his new employer is?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

mifn21 said:


> So, do we know who his new employer is?


I'm sure SUMOne knows :thumbsup:


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Ah so!! :thumbsup:

Will said employer still be able to advertise on here despite knowingly employing someone now widely known to be a complete and utter ****? :s

Whoever you are, you might want to put CCTV up whereever parts are stored!!!


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

If it wasn't so funny, it would have to go


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

He's at Sumo. The thing is, Gary was/is actually a good mapper and had some good knowledge. Problem is he had no management skills, no customer service and got extremely Greedy taking everything for granted.
If someone does not learn from one mistake never mind umpteen then ........well here is the result.

Now ......all you forum users that used him in the past and got burnt legitimately. You are all to blame. Nobody is perfect and I cringe at the people who scream wolf for minor things and miscommunication, but there are plenty of people on here now and previously on here with bad experiences to talk in depth about, but choose to say absolutely nothing.

There is a man who took him to court, there are some big spenders who moved to another garage/tuner who know money spent was unaccounted for as lumps were given upfront, theres a nice blue 34 who went through hell even with a simple spray job. There are untold stories.......

Gary is reading this and I hope he comes through with my invoice promised for work done 2 years ago.

People know most of my experiences.

Users register here to generally gain knowledge of the cars they love. How to modify, who to use, what are the best options for their goals. Everyone is quick to post rubbish and swipe at somebody for tiny things. Well what about these experiences?

Perhaps Gary will excel where he is, as he will be told what to do and hopefully for everyones sake (whoever might go there), they will keep him on a leash.....a short tight one!

What most do not seem to understand is how he got back in the good books with Andy barnes as they too fell out years ago.

Its a funny small World here and people should help eachother against these rogues.

You cant please them all and there will always be people that will never be satisfied, but we do spend alot on these cars and most tuners need to up their game and move forward with the times, being proactive, seeing the bigger picture as to where the future lies for them as its not by procrastinating over peoples repairs/servicing or tuning. Its not going to move forward or become rewarding if they dont fulfil all requests and put a little extra touch in. You need job cards, you need check lists, you need car defect checks for when cars come in and out, perhaps preset basic charges, maybe even pre built engines on the shelf and pre spec'd heads. 

The problem for us and the bonus for tuners is that the longer a car is sitting with them, we will all generally keep adding items ourselves.

John, everyone is feeling your pain.

PS: Blue34..........what a joke!


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Mel HKS said:


> He's at Sumo. The thing is, Gary was/is actually a good mapper and had some good knowledge. Problem is he had no management skills, no customer service and got extremely Greedy taking everything for granted.
> If someone does not learn from one mistake never mind umpteen then ........well here is the result.
> 
> Now ......all you forum users that used him in the past and got burnt legitimately. You are all to blame. Nobody is perfect and I cringe at the people who scream wolf for minor things and miscommunication, but there are plenty of people on here now and previously on here with bad experiences to talk in depth about, but choose to say absolutely nothing.
> ...


Sorry but you're post is full of contradictions - which way are you going with it.

I might add, that if Gary is reading this thread and that unfair and false information has been added, then why on earth has something not been said.

As for your opening comment of 'Now ......all you forum users that used him in the past and got burnt legitimately. You are all to blame'
Frankly thats laughable, as there is only one person to blame - or is there? lets hear Gary's side


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

Mike - just my honest opinion, not contradictary at all.

I'm not saying that anything said is false and I think you should read again.

I'd love to hear Gary's side! So would John I'm sure.
Mike look at the wider picture. Looking at green sometimes repairs the visuals of gazing at a screen all day jumping on everyones comment.

Gary is fully to blame, but on the same note the small group of people I mentioned CHOSE not to say anything over the years and believe me there are plenty more ex customers that were very active on here some time ago. If these people did speak up perhaps John wouldnt have felt sorry for Gary as everyone has heard his sob stories before.

Type away Mike! Ta da


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## Einstein RA (Nov 1, 2011)

B0DSKI said:


> John
> Stumbled upon this thread on 22B. I've posted a link up on Scoobynet as well.
> 
> To be honest I've the utmost respect for the way you've gone about dealing with this. I'm not sure I could remain so level headed with such appalling service.
> ...



Hear hear. I'm struggling to comprehend how John can remain so calm and pragmatic under the circumstances. This says as much about John as Gary's actions say about him. 
We're all car enthusiasts wether it be a Skyline, Evo, Scooby etc. We pour a lot of money and time in to our cars and for someone to do what that pr!ck Gary has done is the lowest thing ayone could do. Taking someone's trust, cash and car and systematically destroying them. My blood is boiling thinking about it! 
We (the whole community) need to weed out the lowlifes who do this and ensure they pay for their deeds. The more they get away with it the longer it will happen.
As Bodski says the whole Subaru community is appalled by this tale and I personally offer whatever help I can. 
No matter what the outcome John, you can hold your head high. Your integrity and conduct has been an example to us all.:thumbsup:


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## Einstein RA (Nov 1, 2011)

Mel HKS said:


> .
> 
> I'd love to hear Gary's side! So would John I'm sure.



Gary's silence speaks volumes I'm afraid.


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## see_no_evo (Sep 10, 2007)

Mike is always the 1st to comment on everyones post


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Lol, no I'm not


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

B0DSKI said:


> John
> Stumbled upon this thread on 22B. I've posted a link up on Scoobynet as well.
> 
> To be honest I've the utmost respect for the way you've gone about dealing with this. I'm not sure I could remain so level headed with such appalling service.
> ...


Thanks mate. I read some of the comments on both sites and it was great to see so many people apalled by what has happened to my car. As always it's for all the wrong reasons but we are where we are.  One chap asked why it had taken three years. I guess the simple answer is I trusted the guy and every time I saw him he gave explanations about all the wor he was doing. I was not in a rush as I have other things going on in my life and rarely visited, relying on reports and photos. When i did visit there were all manner of items in progress, some of which are now 'missing'. Maybe they weren't mine anyway  The fact is so much money had been sunk into the car that to walk away at any point would have cost a lot of money so, regardless I was in it for the long haul whether I liked it or not. 

As to how I feel now, you can only imagine. Although I know some people have had bad experiences with tuners around the world we are all different and all react in a different way. So, rather than be a keyborad warrior I am simply trying to keep my head straight about a 14 year affair that has ended and trying to decide what to do next. For sure this feeling of unimaginable anger is something that will never go away


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

MIKEGTR said:


> I might add, that if Gary is reading this thread and that unfair and false information has been added, then why on earth has something not been said.
> 
> ........ there is only one person to blame - or is there? lets hear Gary's side


Gary has called me to ask for the thread to be removed because it's "unfair" and will "ruin his reputation". I did point out he was a member of this forum and is free to contribute to the discussion should he wish. I guess then he doesn't want to


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Pretty sure full recompense would help you consider asking for it to be deleted. Until then it stays

Mook


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Fuggles said:


> Gary has called me to ask for the thread to be removed because it's "unfair" and will "ruin his reputation"




I think Gary has ruined his own reputation

Sort John out with his money Gary and the thread will get closed:chairshot

Gary you cant just take a car off a owner and strip it for parts and get away with it.John put his faith and a good car in your hands so sort the money put you owe him or replace is car.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Thread post on Supra owners forum and Skyline owners


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## balloo2u (Feb 24, 2008)

Old man, I have just read the thread from start to .......well here I guess.

As far as I am concerned this (fill in your ownnames) should not be allowed to work in another garage as long as he lives. Would I take my car to a tuner who employed him. Not on your nelly!

For someone to have poured so much of his life into the car/japscene/forum and to end up with this as a reward, I am gutted for you.


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## balloo2u (Feb 24, 2008)

Oh and this email from Feb was a blinder:
Dear ************

My name is Yasmin Lee and I'm contacting you on behalf of Mr Gary Passingham regarding some comments on your website forum.

The comments left are on the GT ART thread and mention Mr Passingham personally. Without going into detail on every comment I would like to politely request that these be taken down as Mr Passingham has moved on from a very difficult year and would like to begin his fresh start without negative comments.

It is unfortunate that some people feel this way about Mr Passingham and GT ART and even more unfortunate that the hundreds of happy customers Mr Passingham also deals with have not had the urge to use the forum.

Mr Passingham and GT ART are embarking on a new era of business and will continue to try to satisfy all customers, taking into consideration all feed back from all sources.

I thank you in advance for your time and look forward to hearing from you in the not too distant future

Many thanks
G Tart.


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## danb (May 27, 2011)

ive jsut read this from start to finish - im shocked! How you remain calm John ive no idea!

As a few people have posted, i hope karma comes and gets him at some point when he leasts expects it, and you John get what you are rightfully entitled too.


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## 59bhp (Jun 7, 2010)

just read this on the SXOC

just a crying shame and an all to familiar site! you seem like such an nice and understanding bloke, its ****ed up because this is the reason you got burned. It really angers me, people take advantage of someones good nature and get off scot free.

don't let one criminal put you off of cars/skylines for life and hope you can recuperate some of your losses.


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## Rubix_Cube (Mar 5, 2006)

Seen this thread on the SXOC.



Fuggles said:


> Gary has called me to ask for the thread to be removed because it's "unfair" and will "ruin his reputation". I did point out he was a member of this forum and is free to contribute to the discussion should he wish. I guess then he doesn't want to


He ruined his own reputation with bad business.

Bad times hearing about another morally bent businessman hiding under a vale of going bankrupt to hide his theaving ways.


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## Liam (Sep 5, 2002)

I've had bad dealing with garages myself but nothing on this level, terrible 

I've not read the entire thread so I may be repeating someone else, but isn't Gary Passingham working for Sumo Power now? never been a fan of Sumo Power either so it makes sense that he'd be working there now. another one to avoid like a dose of the clap.


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## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

Haven't been on here for a while (not got a skyline any more) but I'd just like to say how shocking this is, and how amazingly maturely you're dealing with this John.

What goes around generally does come around, so hopefully this will apply here. I would be suprised if something like this does not affect the business of the new employer.


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## dragerboy (May 15, 2003)

This is the first time I've come across this thread and am disgusted. As mentioned Im on the Sumo email subscription and they sent me an email saying we welcome Gary. Having read this I will make the choice not to use Sumopower because of association.


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## Einstein RA (Nov 1, 2011)

balloo2u said:


> Oh and this email from Feb was a blinder:
> Dear ************
> 
> My name is Yasmin Lee and I'm contacting you on behalf of Mr Gary Passingham regarding some comments on your website forum.
> ...



Is this a complete and utter p!ss take? If Passingham thinks he's had a difficult year believe you me things are going to get a whole lot worse. He could of course do the decent thing and repay John and prove he's not a total scumbag!


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## majestic (May 3, 2010)

Perhaps an owners meeting outside his house would help. enough said


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## j25gti (Nov 2, 2011)

Just seen this on toyotagtturbo. And I am appalled. I hope you get all your parts back. And I for one can say I will never use sumo for anything until gary is gone. I don't care if he is the best tuner in the world! I got ripped off for a "rebuilt engine" that was completely ****ed. And I was devastated. I can only imagine how you must be feeling. 

Good luck with it, and if I can be of any assistance (even if its just making the tea!) Then hit us up. 

J


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Jeez word is getting about.:thumbsup:

My advice is if you want to help John post a link to this on every car forum you belong to and your Facebook/twitter page to spread the word.

People like Gary cant be allowed to get away with this with no punishment-the least he can lose is his reputation.


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## TubbyTwo (Nov 3, 2011)

Have just read the whole post after seeing it on various car forums, Fuggles, totally gutted for you chap 

How anyone could do this to another car enthusiast is beyond me, Gary you really are the lowest form of scum, you dont even have the balls to publically have your say on the matter. 

Suffice to say Sumo wont be getting anymore business from me as long as this clown is employed there and I doubt anyone I know will either after I have emailed them a link to this thread.

Gutted for you mate I really am. Hopefully one day he will cross the wrong people and get what he deserves. :thumbsup:

Doesnt bad news spread fast


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## gt-ravenous (Apr 1, 2006)

you would think that whoever took, bought and or outright stole johns car parts would have heared about this and given up what does not belong to them! so do think that makes whoever has his parts just as low as gary... this just sucks all the way around.
truly gutted for john


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

The power of Internet Forum Community's is quite staggering sometimes.

It's like an up to date "Dad's Army".

Didn't realise this bloke had moved to SUMO. I'd hazard a guess John that some kind of resolution may not be that far away. I totally agree that crooks should not be allowed to continue operation & we've all no doubt learnt lessons from the goings on at CPR.

It will always be buyer beware which makes the trusted out there all the more highly regarded.


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## TubbyTwo (Nov 3, 2011)

Might have just added this to another few forums as well.

:thumbsup:


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

TubbyTwo said:


> Might have just added this to another few forums as well.
> 
> :thumbsup:






Keep it going lads:chairshot


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Let's be straight, this thread, the events and what happened to my car are all about just that. If the person trusted to do the work has found new employment then that is his choice and that of his employer. In fact I have spoken to some of the Sumo Power/JRM guys and this issue has not even come up, as far as I am concerned it's got nothing to do with them or the company, and I suspect they'd agree. Gary just works in the engine shop which is what he's perhaps best at, so there should be no need to doubt Sumo Power or their business. In fact Andy and I go back many years and recently met and this wasn't even discussed.

Gary still has an opportunity to put this right and who knows something may (one day) happen. For now however if he is working for someone else then he is just one very small cog in a much bigger wheel and I doubt very much he will be able or allowed to do anything untoward with an employer breathing down his neck. So let's be realistic about this and separate the past from the present. The past is still unresolved but has nothing to do with the present


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## gt-ravenous (Apr 1, 2006)

well said john


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

I think it's time this thread was closed it's got completely out of control. It's inciting people across multiple forums to boycott Sumo Power and also inciting physical and verbal abuse toward an individual. Not what a forum should be used for.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

blue34 said:


> When the GTROC chairman allows this thread to continue to the point where it is inciting people across several forums to boycott Sumo Power it's not going to help the relationship with the club.
> 
> This thread is also inciting verbal and physical violence which I cannot condone.
> 
> This thread should be removed now.


All he has done is point out his predicament.

Everyone else has made their own opinion based upon the facts placed upon them.

Unfortunately there is the whole 'guilty by association' and if Sumo wish to be akin to someone who has acted in this way in the past, then they should be aware that many people will not trust their pride and joy being worked on by someone who previously has taken owners parts off their cars.

I think we can also be fairly sure now that Johns situation is not a one off


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

blue34 said:


> I think it's time this thread was closed it's got completely out of control. It's inciting people across multiple forums to boycott Sumo Power and also inciting physical and verbal abuse toward an individual. Not what a forum should be used for.




if people dont want to use sumo due to gary working there then thats up2 them, fuggles never said boycott them, at the end of the day garys in the wrong and hasnt got a decent bone in his body! total scumbag and should never be allowed to be in buisness again! :thumbsup:


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

As has been seen with CPR too...it's too easy for people to move on without their past following them.

In my business we have PVG (aka Disclosure) so that people's pasts follow them. And quite rightly.

Do a good job get praised. 
Do a shit job get what you deserve.


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## Einstein RA (Nov 1, 2011)

blue34 said:


> I think it's time this thread was closed it's got completely out of control. It's inciting people across multiple forums to boycott Sumo Power and also inciting physical and verbal abuse toward an individual. Not what a forum should be used for.



Aw diddums! How very noble of you to jump to 'the scumbag's' (aka Passingham) defence. There's very good reason why this thread is being posted on various forums, it's because we're all disgusted at what has hapened to John. We may drive different cars but we're all a community, one of us gets conned we all feel it. This sort of thing has happened within the Subaru community (albeit not on this scale) and we've resolved it as a community. Scumbags need to realise there is no hiding place any more, the world has all of a sudden gotten much much smaller. This is the power of the forums halellujah! Now go stick your umbrage somewhere and stop trying to supress freedom of speech!


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Guys, can we keep it to John's car or just factual if it's about anyone or anything else. I did remove earlier references to Sumo as they were not relevant to the subject and I asked people not to name them. This seems to have fallen by the wayside and the thread is veering off track. I'm sure everyone does have an opinion on Gary Passingham and how he's behaved, it's just a shame he hasn't voiced his opinions on here and tried to offer some kind of justification for his actions. I appreciate peoples desire to warn others of bad experiences but a lot of what is being written here now is too little, too late. It also looks to be descending into lynch mob mentality. Let's not go there please.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

I am unsure what benefit further discussion will have on this thread. I'd like to lock it with Johns consent as i think the point has been made. 

Mook


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

I think that this thread stands as a salutory lesson on however much you may like your tuner it nevers hurts to keep a weather eye on them.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Mookistar said:


> I am unsure what benefit further discussion will have on this thread. I'd like to lock it with Johns consent as i think the point has been made.
> 
> Mook


I say keep it open, people should be reminded of just how shocking this story is.

Until the so called "person" has the decency to hold their hands up and strongly apologise here (on this thread) for the way John and his car has been treated, I feel people have the right to their views and to criticise.


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## jim-lm (Mar 15, 2005)

Trev said:


> I say keep it open, people should be reminded of just how shocking this story is.
> 
> Until the so called "person" has the decency to hold their hands up and strongly apologise here (on this thread) for the way John and his car has been treated, I feel people have the right to their views and to criticise.



:thumbsup: +1 please leave this open mods..


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Trev said:


> I say keep it open, people should be reminded of just how shocking this story is.
> 
> Until the so called "person" has the decency to hold their hands up and strongly apologise here (on this thread) for the way John and his car has been treated, I feel people have the right to their views and to criticise.


We all know thats not going to happen.

We also all know who is responsable and where they work. I'm sure word of mouth will ensure they will spend a very long time looking over their shoulder.


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## bigchief (Jun 11, 2006)

Hi John, i'm totally shocked mate, its shocking that a Professional Garage could turn a unique car to a total write off with NO concern for the Customer or the common decency to at least rectify the mess, We have a great relationship and will help out if you need mate, also WE HAVE posted and named and shamed the company employing Gary and my members will push it to as many websites as possible, here is our thread to save the new owners here any repercussions...Dont get ripped off by your tuner - Skyline Owners Forum

You know where i am mate...Keith


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

bigchief said:


> You know where i am mate...Keith


Really appreciate your thoughts Keith. As a fellow car club chairman it's good to hear support 'from the top' as well as all the messages from enthusiasts on this and other forums.

As far as his current employer are concerned they have done nothing wrong. That they have employed the chap is their decision and what went before them is in the past and nothing to do with them. I know the guys there very well and have spoken to many of them from the top of the organisation down to the bottom and know them all to be good people. One bad apple does not make a bad company. Perhaps their involvement will make a change and for the good, let's hope so. But, for whatever reason they have every right not to be affected by this and I for one wouldn't want to see that. That would be wholly unfair on a large group of good people.

As for my car I have no idea what happens next but, for sure, the story isn't over yet


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Trev said:


> I say keep it open, people should be reminded of just how shocking this story is.
> 
> Until the so called "person" has the decency to hold their hands up and strongly apologise here (on this thread) for the way John and his car has been treated, I feel people have the right to their views and to criticise.




Will 3rd that:thumbsup:


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

Fuggles said:


> As far as his current employer are concerned they have done nothing wrong.


Apart from employing an alleged theif,well done SUMO :thumbsup:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Mookistar said:


> I am unsure what benefit further discussion will have on this thread. I'd like to lock it with Johns consent as i think the point has been made


Yes please. The recent comments are not what this story is all about. the sotry was/is about my car and what became of it. Lots of people have asked me about it and I wanted to finally put to an end the speculation, as well as tell the story of it all. 

This can now be closed. I will however leave the door open for Gary to consider his position and respond, either by email, PM or to post on here as is his choice. If anything comes of it I will be happy to tell some good news. If nothing happens, well............


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

As requested, this is now closed.


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