# Strange Intake Manifold



## crazydave3000 (Apr 13, 2011)

So I was watching some old Japanese drag videos online today and came across an R32 with an intake manifold I have never experinced before. 

Basically it was double manifold, one for the first three cylinders and the other for the the other three, completely independent to each other, just like the exhaust manifolds on twin turbo gtr's...

Anyone know what I'm talking about here?

Basically I would like to know who makes/made this mani and what advantages/disadvantages it has on regular one piece plenum design. 

Any help would be appreciated.


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

Tuner's custom home made effort. If it worked out to be amazing they would be selling them today. Those videos are mostly from mid to late 90's.


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## blitzman (Mar 14, 2006)

Got a link to that?
As lightspeed said if it was good would've been copied.
Sounds interesting though,2 throttle bodies obviously.


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## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

ive seen that too, i think the hole idea behind was to run totally seperated pipes from the turbos perhaps?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

I think the videos were posted not so long ago, it was one of the videos where the bonnet flew up - all were running 9's I think


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## crazydave3000 (Apr 13, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> I think the videos were posted not so long ago, it was one of the videos where the bonnet flew up - all were running 9's I think


Yes, thats the exact one. There are some really amazing gtr's in that video and to be honest to run those kind of times 13 years ago is really something.

Here's the link if anyone's interested:

0-400m battle drag GT-R Part1/2 Aug,1998 - YouTube

I'm still curious about the double manifold setup. Yes, if it proved to be effective, it would have sold regularly but the owner of the car (garage zenitani I think?) must have had a reason to make it like that?


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## crazydave3000 (Apr 13, 2011)

Screenshot of the car I am talking about:


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## dwood (Sep 19, 2008)

that is manifold madness. what a creation, looks seriously cool and fabricated very well.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

where is Rob RIPS when we need him?


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

RRC is Ricoh Racing IIRC.
Used to do some mean R32's


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Has Rob made one like this ?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Has Rob made one like this ?


Robs done everything:thumbsup:


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

If I had to speculate, the theory would be to make sure all cylinders got the same air temp and volume of air/fuel / #6 often needs a .% more to compensate for being at the back of the block (hotest) and the furthest point from the entry end of the usual plenum.

Or something else.....


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

I guess the Nismo plenums were not manufactured at that time.


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## Grinder (May 10, 2003)

I really like the look of those high-profile drag tires on the r32. hmmm.


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## JayJay (Apr 19, 2010)

oooooo 2 plenums.... very interesting


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

It is certainly much better for a drag engine.


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

I've seen Extreme Tuners in Greece do something like that with one of their EVOs too, if I have a moment I'll try and track it down


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Here we go, these guys built some pretty intense stuff - this is for an EVO they're shooting for 2000hp out of:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Robs done everything:thumbsup:


Hahaha definatly not, although I do seem to be able to show actual results in a few different situations unlike some who tend to just talk about "gunna do it" or "workin on it" for what seems like years


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

OP. if you want something like that I could make it, you'd just have to consult with bigmike as to weather the way I might do it would work or not :thumbsup:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Lith.......2000hp is one thing and might be possible but how the hell do they think they are going to use it in a 4wd chassis?


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Hahaha, good question. They've made noises that they reckon they can build something that will deal to HT's time. They seem very knowledgeable, have claimed some impressive experience and have shown some very impressive dyno plots but no doubt the proof will be in the pudding when it comes to harnassing that kind of power in an AWD chassis.

I know the only AWD Mitsi/DSM thing that has shown any hint of giving HT's time a nudge have actually started asking around for chassis suggestions, though there are a lot of people who don't count HT's time as an AWD record and actually count the Mitsi as the fastest AWD.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Strange to not count HTs time as the AWD record. Is is because the front split can be turned right off if desired? I presume in the mitzi's the center diff is not as "tunable"?


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

I think the Americans often change the rules enough to count out records from other countries, if not just blatently ignore them. EVOs can't disengage the front wheels for burnouts, etc though - so I guess the logic is that GTRs are full time AWD. This will no doubt not apply to all Mitsi people/Americans though.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

True, most yanks don't even know there are any other countries or believe that the US is "the world".

Amasing how many world finals are held in the states with no-one from other countries even present, lol.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> OP. if you want something like that I could make it, you'd just have to consult with bigmike as to weather the way I might do it would work or not :thumbsup:


Boost pressure covers up a lot of inefficiency.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> Boost pressure covers up a lot of inefficiency.


Couldn't agree more.....serious question then Mike.....why do we make at least the same power, if not more, at a given boost than pretty much anyone else running RBs that I know of?

Example, Drag-r, 1050whp @ 1.9 bar, GT42, NO NOS, in 4wd on 2 different rolling roads (1 in NZ, 1 in the UK) and then run 9.4 @ 156mph at 1740kg on 1.9 bar with a 75 shot.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Don't know but I know enough to suggest that all that extra power at LOWER boost MUST be attributed to your plenums...


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> Don't know but I know enough to suggest that all that extra power at LOWER boost MUST be attributed to your plenums...


why thank you :thumbsup: Hahaha

Anyway, been here before, gets no-one any where, I claim nothing in particular with regards to my plenims but IMO if there was any REAL truth to what your saying surely I'd need at least a little more boost to achieve X result?


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Come on you did not pick the sarcasm


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Care to answer the other part of my post?


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Sorry I did not see that.

Yes. But it is not the only inefficiency you will see.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I'd dare to say there are huge inefficiencies in pretty much everyones street/strip engine and untill a huge series of back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back tests are done on a dyno to quantify my or your "gut feelings" its pointless even discussing it.

As long as I can make at least as much power at a given boost with a given turbo etc as other top RB builders, require NO individual cylinder trim, have happy customers and my own car/s that can't even use the power we easily and reliably make I'm more than happy.

From your thinking I should be able to bolt on any number of different intake plenims and notice a significant improvement in power at a given boost level and that I simply don't buy it at all because if it was true I'd have 100s of customers saying they have gone backwards after installing my plenims, right?

I have never said my plenims are the best at anything but for us in the real world of what is practicle and cost effective, there's no way to say one way or the other, end of.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

There is no "gut feeling" it is flow dynamics and engineering principles. 

If you are happy with the power you are making and that is all that concerns you, then great.

Did I mention significant improvement anywhere? Don't think I did. 

Never said they were the best or worst... just commented that the design is poor in line with engineering principles, specifically, flow dynamics.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

There may well be a difference or a slight improvement to be had, it'd be silly to think that wouldn't be the case, but I'd also put money on the fact that ANY aftermarket manifold on the market for RBs would be in the same boat to varying degree's and could be improved on if there was a very specific application it had to perform in and there was the time and budget to optimise a given manifold for a given application, the point is, whatever the difference may be, its obviously not worth worrying about for us mere mortals.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Out of interest, lets say we set up a 1000 liters of water in a drum on the roof of a building and ran a big hose down to a trumpet flared the way I do then did the same with a trumpet the shape you say it should be, as a % how much quicker would you say the 1000l of water would pass through your one?


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Lol, sorry mate that has nothing to do with what is wrong with your plenums.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

There's nothing wrong with them for what they are intended for wether you like it or not. You obviously have no usefull information to add, let me know when you make your own manifolds and go quicker at less boost, cheers.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Let me know when you are ready to listen to and accept the basics of flow dynamics and I can explain it to you.

Until then, I won't be designing a plenum because I am able to comprehend that these complicated designs are best left to OEM's or race teams with big dollar budgets that can complete the necessary engineering, flow testing and field testing... hmmm, maybe like the Nismo one.


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## Darren-mac (May 13, 2009)

Bigmikespec I think you sleep with a nismo plenum


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Hahaha definatly not, although I do seem to be able to show actual results in a few different situations unlike some who tend to just talk about "gunna do it" or "workin on it" for what seems like years


Rob the best comes to them who wait.:thumbsup:


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

bigmikespec said:


> Let me know when you are ready to listen to and accept the basics of flow dynamics and I can explain it to you.
> 
> Until then, I won't be designing a plenum because I am able to comprehend that these complicated designs are best left to OEM's or race teams with big dollar budgets that can complete the necessary engineering, flow testing and field testing... hmmm, maybe like the Nismo one.


O Dear rob you have been told LOL


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Darren-mac said:


> Bigmikespec I think you sleep with a nismo plenum


No I will put it on my car, when a spare $2k comes up!


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## crazydave3000 (Apr 13, 2011)

lightspeed said:


> RRC is Ricoh Racing IIRC.
> Used to do some mean R32's


Yes, sorry I guess Zenitani was the previous car. With the massive twin turbos under the bonnet they all look the same 



GT-R Glenn said:


> If I had to speculate, the theory would be to make sure all cylinders got the same air temp and volume of air/fuel / #6 often needs a .% more to compensate for being at the back of the block (hotest) and the furthest point from the entry end of the usual plenum.
> 
> Or something else.....


I thought of that also but then why not just use a regular aftermarket plenum? Most of the aftermarket plenums (Nismo, Endless-R, RIPS, etc.) were designed specifically to counter this issue and provide an equal amount of air to each cylinder. Based on some of the other cars sporting them, I assume that such parts were available then. Why go through all the fabricating of a dual manifold when they could have simply used those? Do you reckon this design would be significantly better in providing equal air than the one piece designs? I can't imagine any other reasons to having it..



R32 Combat said:


> It is certainly much better for a drag engine.


Care to elaborate? :thumbsup:


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## crazydave3000 (Apr 13, 2011)

Lith said:


> Here we go, these guys built some pretty intense stuff - this is for an EVO they're shooting for 2000hp out of:


WOAH! That engine looks insane, surprised no one has used that manifold design on a gtr. Is that a twin fuel rail I see in the last picture? Any idea what turbo they're planning on using?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

crazydave3000 said:


> Care to elaborate? :thumbsup:


Ok, A plenum is a very carefully designed item to store air for the engine. It's shape and position from the head are a compromise. Ron ran 1000hp with a standard plenum. Some individuals 'think' they get a HP gain from a 'larger' plenum. 

If you run an engine WOT all the time, e.g. drag racing, then you want the reverse of an exhaust manifold. Air being blown straight onto the back of the valves is good. You don't need a collector for that application.

It is pointless to 'make a plenum' without actually knowing what it does.

The standard plenum has a slight weakness, but many good points. The Nismo plenum addresses this weakness.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> Let me know when you are ready to listen to and accept the basics of flow dynamics and I can explain it to you.


Your like a bible basher man, I'm happy with what I have and so are 100s of my customers, and if basic flow dynamic's are being missed I'm really going rather well then I'm sure you'd agree. :thumbsup: OMG, just imagine what could be done with correct flow dynamics!!




bigmikespec said:


> Until then, I won't be designing a plenum because I am able to comprehend that these complicated designs are best left to OEM's or race teams with big dollar budgets that can complete the necessary engineering, flow testing and field testing... hmmm, maybe like the Nismo one.


So, without question, if I put a Nismo plenim on my wide variety of engines I will see a measurable and worthwhile gain in performance accross the board, YES or NO.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

crazydave3000 said:


> WOAH! That engine looks insane, surprised no one has used that manifold design on a gtr.


Carefull there chap, Big Mike hasn't taken a look at these pictures and given it the all clear for a pass in basic flow dynamic's.


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## Vihis (Jan 1, 2008)

The Nismo plenum was designed, to my knowledge, for response.

The gains of the plenum can be read on the Nismo web page, in clear English:

NISMO | RB26DETT Engine Parts

It's not the holy grail, it's a response plenum and like R32 Combat said, it addresses some known faults of the OEM and has some additional improvements as well. 

If you plan to run a lot of air, accompanied by a lot of boost (I.E Big single), you're better off with a larger plenum. In which I feel Rob's will do its job well. Being no engineer I somehow feel the Nismo one is too small for the amounts of air involved. (RB26). Not going to go into engine displacement and exhaust flow here.

My pence !


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

As I said if you are happy Rob and so are your customers despite the fact it is a poor design then super. You are obviously happy because they hand over the dollars and they get a shiny plenum with their name engraved in it.

Vihis, just because it "looks small" does not mean it cannot flow effecively.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> As I said if you are happy Rob and so are your customers despite the fact it is a poor design then super.


I see you dodged my YES NO question, I presume its because we both know the real answer to that.

I'm sure you'd agree the NISMO plenim your so in love with could be improved on or it would be possible to make a plenim for a given application on a RB that could show gains on an engine dyno.

The fact is, theory is fine, and you may well be right, but its clearly NOT an issue worth getting your knickers in a twist over in real world operation Mike, in fact I'm so sure, when you can afford it, put a Nizmo plenim on your car and get it tuned and let me know when your ready.

Jase and I will fly over and install one of my off the shelf RB26 plenims and give it a re-tune on the same dyno you used, under the same conditions and not exceed the peek boost value you used.

If your car see's a loss in power, we will put your car back to how it was, admit a RIPS plenim in your application is not as good as a Nismo one and return home with results we can work with.

If there is no change or it does perform better, we'll pull it all off again, put your car back to how it was and you pay for the air fares and all expenses. 

If you don't want to take me up on my offer, don't go on about any of this any more.



bigmikespec said:


> You are obviously happy because they hand over the dollars and they get a shiny plenum with their name engraved in it.


I'm happy because my customers are happy, my customers are happy because I don't misrepresent anything, I don't claim they are theoreticly superior or the best or anything in particular based on any back to back dyno tests or anything like that, they get great looking product, how they want it, they get value for money and several options/features they can't get elsewhere, surely thats a win win for everyone involved especially when they know I have never had any word from any customer there has ever been a drop in performance as a result of installing one of my plenims.

Your opinion is just that, and when you finally get your Nismo plenim I hope the 2 of you will be very happy together :thumbsup:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Just read the Nismo page, Mike, they are designed for 400-600hp engines and at best, acording to them your going to see a 1.8% increase in power over using a stock manifold, thats not even 11hp on a 600hp engine ffs!

What happens if your doing an engine with much more than 600hp Mike?


All this ranting over a possible 11hp is just a joke, I could take a dump and get accelleration gains equivilent to more than that lol.


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## fabianGTR34 (Aug 6, 2006)

I started a topic about this a while ago:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/69629-plenium-design-dual-plenium.html

cheers


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## black bnr32 (Jan 20, 2011)

interesting that all those cars ( i think) run individual throttle bodies and most still have stock plenums


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

black bnr32 said:


> interesting that all those cars ( i think) run individual throttle bodies and most still have stock plenums


There is a reason for that.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

R32 Combat said:


> There is a reason for that.


And that reason is?

Surely your not going to say because they wanted response or that they chose to go that way for more power? that video was a long time ago and they were no dought pushing the boundaries of the parts they had available at the time.

I'm sure we'd all agree that most people would consider the itb's best suited to a road/track situation and not a high power drag situation.

I can't recall seeing any recent high power turbo jap/US drag engines running itb's, you can be sure HT, Titan, myself, JB and all the big turbo V8 boys in the states would be running itb's if it was the way to go.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Have you seen how much flow them TBs drop on the flow bench.


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## black bnr32 (Jan 20, 2011)

Andy, just to confirm - that's a plot of a standard rb26 port, with and without the itb?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Yes mate STD head the blue line is with the TBs on.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

I thought I did answer it? Sorry, ask it again.

Thanks for the offer but before you was your time coming over why dont you at least do some CFD on the plenum. Fair play to you, looks the part etc but without some basic flow testing how do you even know it divides air flow evenly to the respective cylinders? Fact is you don't.

It is 100% clear that there are fundamental things wrong with the design from a flow perspective.

You are getting more flow through the plenum but that is because you have removed the ITB's, which hides the fact that the design is poor.

It is not just the horsepower increase but the improvement in flow within the plenum which affects individual cylinders.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

> I don't claim they are theoreticly superior or the best or anything in particular based on any back to back dyno tests or anything like that, they get great looking product


No , but you have implied many times that yours are "the best" 

Righty or wrongly, theres a lot of good aftermarket plemuns around for RB, PLazmaman, rajab racing, GAS, bla bla bla all the Au guys that were racing RB30's before you even knew what one was, also all think theirs are the best....

Anyway, the threads not about whose is best (IMO they all have +'s &-'s) but why you would split 6 cylinders into 2x3 ....

Robs design might not be the "ultimate" but you cant argue about the workmanship and availability.
Its ONE of many well made aftermarket designs.

anyway, kick the guy that started the thread for not reading fabians orignal one ....


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Anyway, the threads not about whose is best (IMO they all have +'s &-'s) but why you would split 6 cylinders into 2x3 ....



The nissan ECU runs the RB26DETT as a pair of 3 cylinder engines, so to run the inlet like the exhaust like this makes sense.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

R32 Combat said:


> The nissan ECU runs the RB26DETT as a pair of 3 cylinder engines, so to run the inlet like the exhaust like this makes sense.


Wouldn't having the single intercooler negate the twin plenums?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Not really, the air comes from 1 atmosphere.


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> There's nothing wrong with them for what they are intended for wether you like it or not. You obviously have no usefull information to add, let me know when you make your own manifolds and go quicker at less boost, cheers.




stop getting your knickers in a twist rob! :thumbsup:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

nailsgtr600 said:


> stop getting your knickers in a twist rob! :thumbsup:


Don't worry, they arn't, I find it all quite sad and funny really.




bigmikespec said:


> Thanks for the offer but before you waste your time coming over why dont you at least do some CFD on the plenum. Fair play to you, looks the part etc but without some basic flow testing how do you even know it divides air flow evenly to the respective cylinders? Fact is you don't.


Wouldn't the fact we run 0% fuel trim or variance with correct and even burn on every cylinder not indicate the plenim must be flowing air pretty evenly to the respective cylinders? EGTs, plugs, piston tops and valve colours are always identicle accross the board. 

Based on that, and the fact we easily get the results we want, don't you think any issue you feel we may have is not an issue we would be worried about?

Maybe some things just don't work out how your theory would lead you to believe.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Don't worry, they arn't, I find it all quite sad and funny really.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well so you say.

I have said continually that if you are happy and so are your customers who hand over the $$$ then more power to you (pardon pun). Myself and any others included with experience in flow dynamics will sit back and watch.

Perhaps, but that is the standard response from someone with no engineering background when they make something and find that "it works". 

The reality is, although it is easy to make a plenum a boosted engine can cover up inefficiencies and poor flow characteristics and in this case the design indicates that it is indeed so.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

So once again you have got no-where and this has all been a complete waste of everyones time. Awesome. :thumbsup:


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Once again you refuse to accept that the design is compromised and waste your customers money.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

WRONG........I accept EVERY manifold on EVERY car in the whole world is probably compromised in some way, mine and yours included, but does it really matter....NO.

I'm all out of troll food.............


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

bigmikespec said:


> Once again you refuse to accept that the design is compromised and waste your customers money.


Rob must have plenty of customers who are happy with his products. Can you prove he is wasting his customers money?


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## NATEDG (Jul 28, 2010)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Rob must have plenty of customers who are happy with his products. Can you prove he is wasting his customers money?


I can't believe the balls of some people.... ANSWER THE ABOVE PLEASE MIKE!!

How dare you say shit like that on a public forum!!:chairshot

I have watched this site for years, started posting recently, has some brilliant tech information and everybody seems interested in the same sort of stuff except for a few like MIKEGTR that have their heads so far up their own ass it must be bloody dark in there!!!! 
You and others like you pop up on random posts and slag people off....PISS OFF


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

I havnt seen any post in this thread from mikegtr that makes me think he has his own head up his ass .....



> How dare you say shit like that on a public forum!!


Ah,,,yeah ...

What ?


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Am I mikegtr?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

The way it's been quoted, I'm wondering if NATEDG is having a pop at me

Bigmike, *my* question still stands.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Rob must have plenty of customers who are happy with his products. Can you prove he is wasting his customers money?


Can you prove otherwise?

I can show you there are design issues with the plenum; you can decide if it is a waste of money or not.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

bigmikespec said:


> Can you prove otherwise?


No, but I'm not the one taking issue with RIPS products.



bigmikespec said:


> I can show you there are design issues with the plenum; you can decide if it is a waste of money or not.


Why not work with him to enhance the product rather than work against him?


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## geoffree (May 16, 2010)

Considering the photo is a bit old............ 
Still running the multi-throttle bodies by the looks, pretty large turbos, can't see the cooler but presuming it's separated all the way, perhaps it was an attempt to remove shuffle??


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

What engineering qual do you have Mike? And what do you do for a day job. Im interested in your reasoning.


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## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

bigmikespec said:


> Can you prove otherwise?
> 
> I can show you there are design issues with the plenum; you can decide if it is a waste of money or not.


What are you waiting for?
as for now, all you did was talk bullocks.

Lets then see your proof?


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

Amazing how a thread can degenerate so quickly.

I don't think anyone is doubting that RIPS plenums are nicely fabricated but it would be nice to have some figures to show what benefits they actually give on engines of various capacities and power outputs.
Rob, you must sell a fair few of these, you'd probably have more customers if you could show some before and after dyno results of fitting them. Obviously wouldn't show the whole picture but would prove that they are beneficial.

Lastly, I know RK and others have exceeded 1000hp on standard plenums but the standard plenum must have been designed with cost and packaging limitations in mind and the fact that Nismo produced an improved design shows that the original was compromised.

Cheers
Stu


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## NATEDG (Jul 28, 2010)

bigmikespec said:


> Am I mikegtr?


Yes, sorry, got your name wrong.:runaway:

Still waiting on these facts of yours???opcorn:


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Saying ron has seen 1000BHP on the stock plenums means nothing. if you put enough boost in there it will do the numbers but how efficient is the engine off boost. Rob take your turbo off the engine and see what BHP it does then it mite tell you what's wrong with your plenum.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Saying ron has seen 1000BHP on the stock plenums means nothing. if you put enough boost in there it will do the numbers but how efficient is the engine off boost.



Totally agree, boost offsets inefficiency nicely.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

(insert name)'s road car makes 711 kws at the wheels thats 952 HP at the wheels with a standard plenum ...on lowmounts.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> GT-R Glenns road car makes 711 kws at the wheels thats 952 HP at the wheels with a standard plenum ...on lowmounts.


I know, I did a search..


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

OK, here's some facts:

Have I or Big Mike done any flow bench or back to back dyno testing of my plenim compared to stock or NISMO...NO.

Have I ever claimed I have......NO.

Have I ever claimed that if you bolt one of my plenims on you will gain any particular amount of power......NO.

Do I accept with a suitable budget and desire it would be possible to improve them.......YES.

Do I believe that any plenim on the market for RBs could be improved on.....YES

Do I think there is a "1 plenim suits all".........NO.

Are there many features on my plenims which are not in any way related to performance that make them an attractive option for customers.......YES.

Is it possible that alot of customers put appearance, simplicity and the fact they can customise a plenim to their requirements above outright performance........YES. 

Do we need to pump more boost than one would feel acceptable to make X amount of power............NO.

Do we in fact make extreemly good power at a given boost level........YES.

Have we used fuel trim or individually "tuned" cylinders to "even up" what could be an air distribution issue within the plenim...........NO.

Could we if we wanted to.........YES.

Between 6 cylinders, do spark plugs, piston tops and valves always have the same colouring etc.........YES.

Am I claiming that any of the above is due to our plenim design..........NO.

Have I sold 100s of these plenims and to the very best of my knowledge my customers are very happy.......YES.

Have we tuned MANY MANY cars here with stock plenims and RIPS plenims.........YES.

On the dyno, have we ever seen anything strange, uneven or anything else to lead us to believe there is an issue with any of my plenims.......NO.

Have I changed the basic design of the plenim in the 6-7 years I have been making them......NO.

Would it not seem logical that if we were aware of any issues, or if customers did give us feedback that lead us to believe there was an issue we wouldn't have addressed it by now or stopped making them the way we do......YES.

Should I have taken the time to do a back to back dyno comparison between a stock plenim with itb's and one of my plenims.........YES.

Have I felt there has been a need to do so up untill this point.......NO.

Have I put my money where my mouth is and offered to travel to another country and do a back to back dyno test on Big Mikes GTR with no expense to him if his car loses power........YES.

Is Big Mike prepared to take me up on this offer......NO.

Based on that, is it fair that Big Mike continually go on and on about this........NO.

Is it fair that Big Mike say I waste customers money when I am not the one chosing what they spend there money on.........NO.

Will I be doing a back to back comparison at the next opertunity......YES.

Do I believe that if I installed itbs and a stock or NISMO plenim to a large number of my engines that they would lose power.......YES.

Do I care if Big Mike thinks my plenims are not as good as they could be and he would prefere a NISMO plenim.......NO.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm interested in this quote Rob:

Do I believe that if I installed itbs and a stock or NISMO plenim to a large number of my engines that they would lose power.......YES.

Is this as the NISMO plenums are rated to 600hp or the loss from the ITBs?
Response wise do you think it would be better though?


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

[email protected] Rob. Nice reply there fella...

Not that you need it but I suspect that IF a quantifiable HP increase could be proven from your plenum then that would perhaps be an EXTRA selling point! As you said, there are other selling points to your plenums i.e. customisation etc so another avenue of marketing cant be bad eh?
Personally i have no doubt that RIPS plenum would indeed show a performance benefit. What the exact numbers would be are up for debate but im convinced whatever number it was it would be more than std plenum.

TT


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Sub Boy said:


> I'm interested in this quote Rob:
> 
> Do I believe that if I installed itbs and a stock or NISMO plenim to a large number of my engines that they would lose power.......YES.
> 
> ...


What I'm saying is I'd be pretty confident (although I havn't proven it) if I installed stock itbs and a stock or NISMO plenim to the engine in my drag car, or to Ludders Drag-r engine or to a number of my higher power engines (and possibly the lower power ones too, who knows) they would need more boost to make the same power.

Alot or even most of that may be due to the itb's.

With regards to response, same deal, I've never had anyone say they felt they'd lost response but its probably not a particularly easy thing to test or feel for most people. 

Maybe Lith can comment if he felt the RB30 he went in with me was un-responsive even from 2500rpm.

Rob


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

What power do your engines make off boost rob?


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## Domo-kun (Mar 2, 2007)

This thread is great reading... :nervous:

I'll ad something interesting that I found. It's a "dual plenum design" by a Finnish builder called AMW. The owner Mr. Martikainen has tuned and built various finnish street/racing/rally cars. At AMW they build all these plenums in-house. The twin (dual) chamber "WRC" plenum is found on various rally/sprint evos and it's proven great response. I found it even on this RB-engine.










































Here's the same kit but for Evo:


























































Evo's Dyno-results:








Purple Dash-line is the new improved power curve.









This shows the "cylinder mixtures".

Few other istalls:









Diesel set-up:









You can buy it as DIY-set here: AMW Dyno Service. He speaks english too 

OK. Back to the topic - the wonderful world of custom plenums opcorn:


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

That is based on a different theory if you do some research; it is not a "dual plenum" as such that was being discussed at start of thread.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> What power do your engines make off boost rob?


I havn't done a N/A RB and I havn't taken any real notice of figures pre-boost but the guy that helps with my heads has made well over 400bhp from a N/A RB and we can easily see 1100-1200hp under 2 bar on petrol, no NOS.

I'd imagine any high power turbo RB would make pretty poor numbers off boost woudln't it? What have you been able to get or what have you found?


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

> I know, I did a search..


No doubt using the method I have explained as historically your searches have been epic failures , twat 

I think its to do with static air drawn off and or shock waves effecting airflow 

Rob ( I know you know this) the engine should double its power for every 1 bar of pressure added under boost, so the 800 hp engine at 14.7psi should make 400hp as atmo, which is a good way to test engine mods. 
Thats the theory anyway ( I did a search because I have always known how to, unlike some twats here that just critisize people for showing others how to do it)



Carry On ...


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Glenn, forgive and forget. Be nice. This is a serious discussion that hopefully we'll all learn from.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

It pissed me off.....

Others go, oh shit is that how you work the search function properly and Dork calls me a twat for showing how to work it


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

GT-R Glenn said:


> It pissed me off.....


I can tell



GT-R Glenn said:


> Others go, oh shit is that how you work the search function properly and Dork calls me a twat for showing how to work it


I don't think it was the *how*, more the *how often*

Come on, ease up a bit, it's only the internet.

Back to split plenums.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Rob ( I know you know this) the engine should double its power for every 1 bar of pressure added under boost, so the 800 hp engine at 14.7psi should make 400hp as atmo, which is a good way to test engine mods.
> Thats the theory anyway ...


So 1050whp on a rolling road in 4wd at 1.9 bar, NO NOS would have to be around 1250-1300bhp I'm sure we'd agree?

Even if we go with just 1250bhp, thats 431hp N/A with a pretty low compression ratio, hows that sound Andy? 

Rob


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Interesting day on the dyno yesterday and this morning with a R33 GTS for a customer from Finland who is over here for a while before he takes his car back home.

He drove it in running fine and we did nothing but change the stock plenim to one of my normal RB25 plenims and adjust the tune to suit.

I don't think its for me to comment on the results and I still need to do more tests on a few more cars to get more info but he said he'll join up in the next couple of days and give his account of how he feels about his whole experience, service, quality and end result from his point of view.

Rob


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

While we are bagging everyone's plenums here...

What are peoples thoughts on the Genuine Greddy RB26 one as far as designs go?


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

No doubt there will be all kinds of debate on design, but for what its worth the most powerful Skyline "pound for pound" I've ever been in runs one... and I'd like to think I've been in a few respectably quick Skylines.



> Maybe Lith can comment if he felt the RB30 he went in with me was un-responsive even from 2500rpm


It was frankly ridiculous, it had so much torque and so much response I basically got banned from a NZ forum full of anti-RB30 JDM trend whores for contradicting their beliefs (posts were even edited to try and hide the evidence and ultimately discredit me) when I recounted how good it was compared to any JDM-catalogged "built by NZs best GTR tuner built" GTR setup I'd ever experienced in terms of all around performance.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Lith said:


> I basically got banned from a NZ forum full of anti-RB30 JDM trend whores for contradicting their beliefs.


Ah, those were the days, I got banned too, everything was fine untill we started to show that there almighty 26s wern't really as good as they all thought they were.

Shame really because if more of them came for a ride like you did, they'd have a pretty hard time sticking to their original thoughts on things.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

It wasn't the pinnacle of w_a_n_k, aka GTR Elite by any chance ?

Which when you think about it is quite a strange name for a website full of not very elite at all wannbe GTR owners ....



Anyway, back to the plenums....

Rob the OEM rb25 plenum can be easily bettered by the favoured cut and reweld of the entry so to change it to something that actually looks right would give good gains.

It would be good to do several different options at the same time and test back to back all things being equal etc:

Any more theories about the very first question of this thread ?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Rob the OEM rb25 plenum can be easily bettered by the favoured cut and reweld of the entry so to change it to something that actually looks right would give good gains.


Yes, the 25s have always gone very well with the plenim changed.



GT-R Glenn said:


> It would be good to do several different options at the same time and test back to back all things being equal etc:


Sure would, its just time/money and without it really being neccessary as such, its not been high up my list of "must do's"



GT-R Glenn said:


> Any more theories about the very first question of this thread ?


You mean this:



crazydave3000 said:


> Basically I would like to know who makes/made this mani and what advantages/disadvantages it has on regular one piece plenum design.


I can take care of the first part of the question but I have no comment on the second part.


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

GT-R Glenn said:


> It wasn't the pinnacle of w_a_n_k, aka GTR Elite by any chance ?


How did you guess? The culture isn't one that I fit into, or sits well with me. Like Westboro Baptist church, but different.



> Any more theories about the very first question of this thread ?


I keep forgetting to have a good think about this - I might do so and if the thread is still going on might have a ramble. You have played with a few interesting things, what are your thoughts?



> Basically it was double manifold, one for the first three cylinders and the other for the the other three, completely independent to each other, just like the exhaust manifolds on twin turbo gtr's...


Well thats kindof a funny one that one, the main benefit to the twin exhaust manifolds on GTRs is the fact that you can have the turbines on each turbo close to the block which results in minimal energy loss from the valve to the turbine, and also due to the I6 firing order there is minimal "mess" at the collector between exhaust pulses. Its a simple to manufacture and apply solution to provide good power, and good spool/response. 

Building an intake, you consider quite different things - and I'm not 100% sure straight off what the advantage to having a single or twin plenums would be. My first thought is that if you are treating it as a kosher helmholtz resonator, surely if you can make it flow evenly to each cylinder and you've got your resonance nailed down where you want it with a single plenum (RIPS says he needs no individual cylinder fuel trim) then a single one can't be too bad. Maybe the effect can be more focussed with only 3 cylinders feeding from a single resonator? Maybe I am just talking shit, but hopefully one way or another it'll provoke someone who knows better than I into saying something interesting thats more on topic 

To be blunt (and the same would apply for me) one thing I'm pretty confident of, is that if you don't actually know what you are trying to achieve by going twin intake manifolds - there is probably no point in going for anything different to what already exists, as the level of optimisation you'd be going for versus whats already available (if there is any) is probably way beyond what you're capable of planning so its not likely to be something worth looking into unless you just like the novelty factor of it.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Seriously a complete guess.

Interstingly enough, some of the comments made about me on GTR elite found there way back to me, and oddly I couldnt create a user and login (Tell me in person Andy) to defend myself...(not that I really care)

I have a good knowledge of who and what was happening and TBH I cant for the life of me understand why anyone would want to be associated with them anyway.

Seriously I think its better to be a "has been" than a "never was", which is a pretty good description of them....
But Im still actually out there doing all the shit I talk about .....and they have never actually done diddly

Anyway ....
I can easily imagine how the discussion would have gone with them and Rob.

Last time Gary watched one of them race around HD's he thought he would have beaten him in his diesel hilux ute and to be honest I think my money would have been on the old fella too .....



Anyway ....

Anyone got an alternate philosophy about 2 x 3 cylinder tanks ....


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## FearMatty (Nov 17, 2011)

wow thank you for the link to the video. very impressive. too bad the video wasnt made 1 year later when the 1999 gtr r34s were out =p


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

you lot are all arguing about flow through the manifold when all you need to do is take a hacksaw to he head.....

SOMENDER-SINGH.com - Grooves 101










Iam off to do mine now!


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

That mod has nothing to do with flow though the ports.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

but it does result in a 42% increase in efficiency - it says so on his website!


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

Simonh said:


> but it does result in a 42% increase in efficiency - it says so on his website!


lol, what else does it say on his website... brilliant!


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

it says his grooves can save the planet (seriously!)


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

Simonh said:


> it says his grooves can save the planet (seriously!)


why cus the car wont run for long! suppose hes right!


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## wgr (Nov 22, 2011)

*New plenum installed, good results.*



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Interesting day on the dyno yesterday and this morning with a R33 GTS for a customer from Finland who is over here for a while before he takes his car back home.
> 
> He drove it in running fine and we did nothing but change the stock plenim to one of my normal RB25 plenims and adjust the tune to suit.
> 
> ...


Hi all.

First post, sorry the offtopic, but this thread seems to be pretty off the rails from the original subject anyway.

I wanted to share a bit on my (still brief) experiences on a basic rb25 plenum by RIPS.

Like Rob said earlier I brought my car to him running fine, and I wanted the look of a front facing plenum to simplify the engine bay and also assumed that the car would benefit from a better plenum. At that point the car already had a FMIC, aftermarket filter, upgraded coilpacs, bigger fuelpump and a Link G4 installed.

I also wanted my rocker covers and front covers painted on the engine and a few other things tidied up so Rob told me he'd need the car for a week to 10 days. After about a week the car was ready to be picked up and I took it for a ride, and whoa... it felt different. Definately a lot more torque present on the lower revs and somewhat more power power from 4500rpm onwards. I was pleased, to say the least.

The car had gained 41KW at the wheels, this was achieved by installing the RIPS rb25 plenum, re-doing the plumbing from the turbo to the intercooler and from the intercooler to the plenum (all the same size as before) and by tuning the ecu to suit. But what really struck me with such a power gain was that the boost was the same in most places in the rev range and it went up by only 1 psi in others.

As said before in this thread that the OEM plenum on the rb25 can be easily bettered by more reasonable design, but I'm convinced that RIPS has designed at least something very right on this plenum design looking at this power gain with minimal boost increase.

All in all, dealing with Rob has been very smooth, he kept me well informed throughout the process, and I'm happy with the end result. I for one don't feel that this has been a waste of my money, not the slightest bit.

Cheers.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Excellent
The link g4 will make significant power gains on its own, if fact I have seen more than 50hp gains by doing nothing other than a retune on an aftermarket ecu.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Why is the RB25DET inlet better with a front feed?


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Excellent
> The link g4 will make significant power gains on its own, if fact I have seen more than 50hp gains by doing nothing other than a retune on an aftermarket ecu.


He already had the link on it so the gain didn't come from that unless the map was rubbish to begin with.

Some interesting things to have done would be retune as is and see if any gain could be achieved and try it with a n other front feed plenum (say greedy as it is popular) I realise this would have cost time and money but IMHO would have been worth it from a this is what we have proved point of view.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Excellent
> The link g4 will make significant power gains on its own, if fact I have seen more than 50hp gains by doing nothing other than a retune on an aftermarket ecu.


Very true, you may have missed the car already had a G4 installed and tuned before it came in? 

I'm not for 1 second saying it made 40+wkw extra from the plenim change alone but overall the customer left with exactly what he wanted looks wise and a much larger gain in response and power than he was expecting so I'm happy with that.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

R32 Combat said:


> Why is the RB25DET inlet better with a front feed?


Mine are not stock plenim bodies converted to front feed, they are completely new plenim bodies with the throttle body at the front.

Its so you can get rid of alot of lengthy intercooler plumbing and all sorts of other factory crap the motor has, tidy up the engine bay and have something that looks nice etc.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Simonh said:


> you lot are all arguing about flow through the manifold when all you need to do is take a hacksaw to he head.....
> 
> SOMENDER-SINGH.com - Grooves 101
> 
> ...



Ha! Singh grooves..i remember then from that hideous Evo build in Spain/Portugal that was linked up on here AGES ago. Had many folks on many forums glued to their screens for updates at the time. Anyone remember that?.

TT


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Yeah I do, it was quite entertaining 

RIPS - so is this plenum using no part of the original inlet manifold? For some reason I had thought some of yours ran stock runners.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I did say new plenim bodies, the first 80mm or so of the original base is used to mount the injectors and rail, from there I add new trumpets and a new plenim body.




My RB26 plenims are 100% new.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Ah, shit, sorry my bad, I read it as installed the link and the plenum ...
TT usually a larger inlet (TB) And like Rob said, the IC plumbing is usually a shorter more direct & less convoluted route


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## wgr (Nov 22, 2011)

R32 Combat said:


> Why is the RB25DET inlet better with a front feed?


I assume it has a lot to do with the fact that many of the GTS-25t's have an aftermarket FMIC and the plumbing becomes more feasible with a front feed plenum.

Whoops, Rob and Glenn got the answer out there earlier. Somehow I missed that.


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## Darren-mac (May 13, 2009)

I have visions of bigmikespec crying over his computer, smashing the keyboard on the desk and screaming into the screen "IT'S FLOW DYNAMICS GODDAMMIT!!! ITS FLOW DYNAMICS!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING????!!!"


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Darren-mac said:


> I have visions of bigmikespec crying over his computer, smashing the keyboard on the desk and screaming


Maybe he is but I don't think he'll be back to comment, he went quiet quite some time ago when he was asked some direct yes/no questions.

I just hope he can let it go and realise things don't neccessarily have to be theoreticlly perfect to get the desired results.

In any case, the customer is happy, I'm happy and its just another job thats gone exactly as they always do no matter what some might think.

Rob


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## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

Darren-mac said:


> I have visions of bigmikespec crying over his computer, smashing the keyboard on the desk and screaming into the screen "IT'S FLOW DYNAMICS GODDAMMIT!!! ITS FLOW DYNAMICS!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING????!!!"


Well i clearly told the guy to come with some proof of this..

But as usual he talk the talk...:blahblah::blahblah:


Come on bigmikespec, you clearly stated you could proof something?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Really, I'd rather just let it go, I've been down this track so many times with so many people over so many different things with different cars and ideas etc.

I'm very carefull with what I claim or say I can deliver to a customer and not neccessarily to do with this case, but as soon as I show that I do deliver what I say I will (drag-r classic example) the knockers who have called me out NEVER come back and say "well I don't know how, or I can't understand why, but for whatever reason, what you said you would do, you did, well done" It happens all the time and I'm over going on about it all the time, I just do what I do and get the results I do and report back honestly, end of.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Ah, shit, sorry my bad, I read it as installed the link and the plenum ...
> TT usually a larger inlet (TB) And like Rob said, the IC plumbing is usually a shorter more direct & less convoluted route


Been doing quite a bit of reading recently on tb sizing and there is some interesting info on how for anything below 500 bhp 65mm is more than enough and anything above that can be detrimental to throttle response.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Darren-mac said:


> I have visions of bigmikespec crying over his computer, smashing the keyboard on the desk and screaming into the screen "IT'S FLOW DYNAMICS GODDAMMIT!!! ITS FLOW DYNAMICS!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING????!!!"


Yes it is definitely affecting me, I can barely wipe away the tears while typing... I hope you are smart enough to detect the sarcasm.

Ronni, congratulations, you called me out over a internet forum. The proof is in the proven theories over many years of very clever people undertaking the research themselve, then it usually gets published in a book or tech. article. If you can be bothered to read one you may learn something... try this one: Fundamentals of Fluid Mechanics by Munson, Young, Okiishi. That will get you started to develop some understanding like old mate Darren above.

I am a fan of Rob's work and have told him so before, he does some really good stuff based what he has achieved. I just don't agree on some aspects on one of his designs and the theory to prove it is... proven.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

GT-R Glenn said:


> If I had to speculate, the theory would be to make sure all cylinders got the same air temp and volume of air/fuel / #6 often needs a .% more to compensate for being at the back of the block (hotest) and the furthest point from the entry end of the usual plenum.
> 
> Or something else.....


Don't you know it all mr ! 

I'd go with that idea too.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Ill quote myself



> No , but you have implied many times that yours are "the best"
> 
> Righty or wrongly, theres a lot of good aftermarket plemuns around for RB, PLazmaman, rajab racing, GAS, bla bla bla all the Au guys that were racing RB30's before you even knew what one was, also all think theirs are the best....
> 
> ...


Nothings changed and Im right .....
The Rob fan club is just plain silly (No offence Rob) 
Theres way to many "keyboard experts" here that unfortunatly base all thier opinions on what Rob has said or done or shown on these forums / and because they have only ever been exposed to his unique marketing, and subsequently think he and everything is does is without question.
(Again Rob no offense dont spit the dummy)

To me this is like arguing about religion and stating christians are right , usually because they grew up and have only ever known christian religions .....

Once again, Oll bet my superannuation on the fact that theres LOTS of aftermarket plenums that are everybit as good Plazmamans / Rajab Racing / GAS ms / RIPS etc:

To constantly drone on about one that has never had real fluid dynamic assessment or flow calcs / test done on it is just plain stupid.

If you are going to bait people then dont be supprised when they bite.

ps Id rather speculate about the very first question /


IS there an echo in here 



here 



>?


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

> Don't you know it all mr !


Not "All" 
I didnt know the bloody lotto numbers the other week .....


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Not "All"
> I didnt know the bloody lotto numbers the other week .....


:bowdown1: :chuckle:

If you ever figure that out please let me take a share too


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

bigmikespec said:


> I just don't agree on some aspects on one of his designs and the theory to prove it is... proven.


and that theory is.........?


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## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

This tread is just plain stupid about now... nothing to do with robs manifold as they arent strange. (just plain awesome looking)

To try and go back to the actual quistion,

Im having a theory that perhaps the piping and intercooler were completely seperated on the car, and they could trim fuel on eatch pair of 3 cylinders.

i cant see what other "benefits" a dual plenum would have.. 

Any ideas ?


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Simonh said:


> and that theory is.........?


Read the text book that I posted the title of you might even be able to tell me.

I really want Glenn to tell me the lotto numbers though.


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## Darren-mac (May 13, 2009)

Tip toe tip toe


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

I no what mike is saying,Try drawing it up in catia and see what it looks like lol.


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## black bnr32 (Jan 20, 2011)

bigmikespec said:


> Fundamentals of Fluid Mechanics by Munson, Young, Okiishi.


interesting - same book is used in engineering universities in canada. that was a tough class!


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> I am a fan of Rob's work and have told him so before, he does some really good stuff based what he has achieved. I just don't agree on some aspects on one of his designs and the theory to prove it is... proven.


Thats fine and your entitled to disagree and there may well be a theory that shows all sorts of things on all sorts of different brands products could be improved on, I'm pretty sure we'd all agree on that, the point is, I'm happy with what we do, my customers are happy with the look and results they get and your welcome to put on whatever plenim makes you feel better, it really is as simple as that. 

I've had people all my adult life tell me at the start of projects that what I want to do will never work and I'm crazy for trying certain things or doing things this way and that but if I get results I'm happy with and win a few races along the way isn't that all that matters?

I'll put out an open offer to anyone........send me a nice looking, well made RB26 plenim with a 90mm throttle body, any brand you like, I'll put it on my dragster and run the motor at the same boost level (measured in the plenim) and we'll see if all of a sudden I go quicker........If I do that'd be awesome. :thumbsup:


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

You have repowerd the dragster with an RB26 ?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> You have repowerd the dragster with an RB26 ?


Yeah, havn't you heard, they are more responsive :chairshot It has a 26 head on it Glenn.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Yeah, havn't you heard, they are more responsive :chairshot It has a 26 head on it Glenn.


Dont need response with a dragster


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

GT-R Glenn said:


> You have repowerd the dragster with an RB26 ?


I see what you did there...


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> Dont need response with a dragster


If you want to be competitive with an auto it sure helps.......better do some more homework on that one Mike


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Someone better tell Red R Racing or Godzilla motorsport they are doing it wrong.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> Someone better tell Red R Racing or Godzilla motorsport they are doing it wrong.


Let me guess, that would be you? :clap:


Check my edit Mike, in my appliactaion it helps. sorry for the confusion.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

All good mate.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Would a high volume pressurised can flow differently under pressure (lets assume the same pressure & all things being equal) when being vented off into two different capacity engines ?
Or would the amount of air displaced effect flow ?


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

bigmikespec said:


> Someone better tell Red R Racing or Godzilla motorsport they are doing it wrong.


Thats quite ironic, considering you're telling someone who has been running 7s with RBs for a few years that he's wrong.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

this intake plenum is not very unusual after all, I have the same in my GTR

so why don't you relax people.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Lith said:


> Thats quite ironic, considering you're telling someone who has been running 7s with RBs for a few years that he's wrong.


Shit, did I, where?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> Let me know when you are ready to listen to and accept the basics of flow dynamics and I can explain it to you.


Ready....While keeping things general so it applies accross the board, what are the basics one would be mad not to follow?


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Ready....While keeping things general so it applies accross the board, what are the basics one would be mad not to follow?


I thought we had moved on a little? PM me Rob if you are serious.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Gentlemen, if you wanna have a war of words, please do it in the ring not behind closed doors via the PM

I'm curiously following up all these technical facts :thumbsup:

and so is GTR-Glen I presume.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> I thought we had moved on a little? PM me Rob if you are serious.


I wasn't being smart, I've done nothing but lay my cards out on the table and be 100% honest every step of the way, I've even offered to try a plenim on your car and a customer gave his account and results after having one of my plenims installed, I can't be any more up front than that.

I'm always open to improve things if it is worthwhile and economical to do so, the worthwhile part I'm definatly not convinced about and the economical I can probably justify if the worthwhile part is beyond dought so thats where you come in, you give what info you have and are you prepared to answer my questions some of which will require a yes or no answer?


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## NATEDG (Jul 28, 2010)

Still waiting for the answers......BIGMIKE ???


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

If im not learning anything tbh I cant be bothered..


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

bigmikespec said:


> Read the text book that I posted the title of you might even be able to tell me.
> 
> I really want Glenn to tell me the lotto numbers though.


If I wanted to I already would do, I thought that the point of participating in a fourm was to share knowledge.

If you have something to share then share it if not then please STFU.

perhaps to make my point a little more elegantly, any tosser can spout off on a forum and say that is shit, and if you don't know why then tough.

It takes someone with a bit more intelligence to say that is shit and here is why.

so which are you bigmike?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I would think that those with a little engineering prowess would realise the RB26 plenum is not the best shape, but the best shape doesn't fit.


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## Darren-mac (May 13, 2009)

We should vote in a new forum rule for users who continuously say they can prove something, then continuously don't.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Darren-mac said:


> We should vote in a new forum rule for users who continuously say they can prove something, then continuously don't.


Not a bad idea but if we go back and re-read all the posts again, how many do you suppose are actually discussing the split plenum of the OP? Not many, at a guess, as everyone is too busy going on about RIPS and Nismo plenums. This thread is seriously off topic but, like a lot of others, that's how it will end when people finally get bored with it.


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

Simonh said:


> If I wanted to I already would do, I thought that the point of participating in a fourm was to share knowledge.
> 
> If you have something to share then share it if not then please STFU.
> 
> ...


bigmikes got a valid point! 
but in the RIPS (plenums) case or any plenum case for that matter if you remove the standard throttle bodies and replace with a big single you will see a massive improvement due to the 10mm throttle spindles restricting air flow as standard, 
even the 50mm throttle bodies are poor in comparison to a single... 

if some one can be bothered weld a throttle bodies flange on the end of a standard plenum and do some dyno runs..

rob at rips's plenum may not be the best design but it looks good and is a improvement over standard. so people will pay the money! 

tweenierob did some back to back dyno testing on a few plenums and im sure the endless one saw the best improvement over standard.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

I have asked Rob to PM me if he genuinely is interested in hearing what I have to say I dont have one yet. 

As far as the rest of the negative comments from RIPS fanboys it does not interest me.

To contribute mildy on topic the twin plenum design seems like an attempt to get more air into the engine. It is pretty crude, although dual inlets appear to have more area for air to go in you still have twice the inlet losses.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

bigmikespec said:


> I have asked Rob to PM me if he genuinely is interested in hearing what I have to say I dont have one yet.
> 
> As far as the rest of the negative comments from RIPS fanboys it does not interest me.
> 
> To contribute mildy on topic the twin plenum design seems like an attempt to get more air into the engine. It is pretty crude, although dual inlets appear to have more area for air to go in you still have twice the inlet losses.


Who cares if rob wants to hear it over pm? There are plenty of us out here who are interested even if he isn't.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Is it a frustrating waste of time for me to try and educate a keyboard basher who has already formed his point of view.

You can read the text if you want to learn.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> Is it a frustrating waste of time for me to try and educate a keyboard basher who has already formed his point of view.


Do you not think everyone is sick to death of hearing you say YOUR point of view when YOU have formed that point of view with NO experience with my plenims or comparison testing being done?

Answer me these please......

Have you ever actually seen one of my plenims in the flesh and had a good look at it inside and out?

Have you done any flow testing on any type of inlet manifold ever?

Have you spoken to anyone, anywhere who has said they felt they had poor results or wern't happy after installing one of my plenims?

Do you think I lie about results or the fact we have never used individual cylinder trims on any of the engines we've tuned with one of my plenims because you sure have implied it.

Do you think if I took off the plenim on my dragster and replaced it with itb's and a nismo plenim (which YOU have said is a far better plenim) I would go faster with the same boost.....YES or NO.

Please don't dodge these Mike, man up and answer them honestly.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

bigmikespec said:


> Is it a frustrating waste of time for me to try and educate a keyboard basher who has already formed his point of view.
> 
> You can read the text if you want to learn.


So you have got nothing then, what exactly is frustrating about saying the narrow end is to narrow because this creates an imbalance in the velocity stack or whatever.

The point is that without justifying your statements your contribution is worthless. At the very least rob can say I have done x and here is y to prove it. 

I am not a RIPS fanboy, I respect quality craftsmanship when I see it and the rips stuff is beautifully well made.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

I am waiting for your PM. I will answer any question or querie you have an explain what I am on about.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

PM sent ages ago.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Physicsforum.com......

As far as ultimate design goes, Sorry its not even close
As far as a design that fits in the engine bay of a car, its good
Which leads me to the next question,
I cant remember what the inlet looks like on the fed but there would without a doubt, be gains to be had if it is based on the car design as the entry angles would be all wrong etc:

So if I have just found more power for you, you owe me a beer


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

The only thing I can say on the matter would be off boost performance but I think that robs plenums are designed for all out bhp, if you were building one for a drag engine it would not be the same as a road engine do you do two types? When we built a plenum some years ago we tried to get equal flow to number one and six cylinders this was done on the flow bench my favourite tool LOL


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Simonh said:


> So you have got nothing then, what exactly is frustrating about saying the narrow end is to narrow because this creates an imbalance in the velocity stack or whatever..


I didnt say that... maybe you think it is a problem?


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## banzai g (Jan 5, 2007)

nailsgtr600 said:


> bigmikes got a valid point!
> but in the RIPS (plenums) case or any plenum case for that matter if you remove the standard throttle bodies and replace with a big single you will see a massive improvement due to the 10mm throttle spindles restricting air flow as standard,
> even the 50mm throttle bodies are poor in comparison to a single...
> 
> ...


Your 100% right mate !!!! 
Tweenierob did do some back to back testing on plenums mostly off the shelf ,
He tested everything apart from a rips plenum i think .
The endless came out on tops with his tests ,by a good bit too
(thats why he had one fitted to his own car) !!!!!!
Many a long phone conversation i had with rob and plenums was one of them.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

how boring is this thread . 


theory this and that. If people have a issue with Robby's design then design your own or prove that his design is no good.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

My theory is most people here wouldnt know their ass from their elbow and make most of their comments based on emotions instead of facts ....
What do you recon ?


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## Speeddm (Jun 10, 2007)

Threads get boring when someone comes on and tries to call someone out like a child. Man up and let everyone in on your theory. This is very similar to the good old "my GTR makes 987WHP on unicorn blood fanboy" No dyno it didn't happen. 
Same goes for you Mike yap yap yap. And nothing. 
You are a very intelligent guy no doubt about it but seriously have a conversation and stop being a child. Challenge Rob in a public forum and let it play out. A conversation is a tool the community can learn from.


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## Darren-mac (May 13, 2009)

Agreed Glenn, but when a thread goes way off topic like this one, with someone continuously harping on and on but never actually answering simple direct questions about what they're yapping about it seems retarded. I would love to know what bigmikespec is supposidly on about but he tip toes around it for page after page, it's a public forum and any information that could make the cars better shouldn't be hid from everyone, if there is any.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

mattysupra said:


> If people have a issue with Robby's design then design your own or prove that his design is no good.


The thing that gets me is there's nothing to prove.

If I had put flow figures up that Mike thought were rubbish then he'd be welcome to try and prove me wrong, if I'd claimed a guaranteed 100hp gain by doing nothing but installing my plenim, he did and only gained 10hp then fair enough.

The point is, I have NEVER made any claims like that, all I have ever done is give honest feedback from my own engines and 100s of customers engines.

I have agreed that with an open engine bay, or a blank page with a large budget for testing etc my plenims could be improved on, I also firmly believe that would be the case with ANY RB plenim on the market today so this whole tread/conversation is pointless.

There's nothing to prove wrong, there's nothing to back up, there's just a plenim being made by a small workshop in NZ in 6 or 7 different styes, all for RB's and there's 100s of happy customers all over the world, end of story I would have thought?

Anyone would think Mike brought a plenim off me for his own car and I made some far out cliams about it, he installed it, it didn't do what I said it would, he wants a refund and I've told him to stick it.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> The only thing I can say on the matter would be off boost performance but I think that robs plenums are designed for all out bhp, if you were building one for a drag engine it would not be the same as a road engine do you do two types? When we built a plenum some years ago we tried to get equal flow to number one and six cylinders this was done on the flow bench my favourite tool LOL


I do several types for all sorts of applications and feedback from customers from 400hp street cars to 700hp track cars, to 1000hp street cars to 1400hp drag cars has all been positive.

Andy, when you flow tested the plenim, did you draw through each trumpet from the head side and then compare the flow numbers or did you blow through the TB and measure the flow out each trumpet?


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## NATEDG (Jul 28, 2010)

Andy, when you flow tested the plenim, did you draw through each trumpet from the head side and then compare the flow numbers or did you blow through the TB and measure the flow out each trumpet?[/QUOTE]

opcorn:


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Rob I can only simulate off boost conditions on the flow bench as that is my main concern Iam always looking at improving off boost response on a engine.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Rob I can only simulate off boost conditions on the flow bench as that is my main concern Iam always looking at improving off boost response on a engine.


Thats cool, but how to you do your tests so you know what a change is doing?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Isn't it funny how when I start asking some legitimate and serious questions its goes real quiet yet I'm more than happy to answer the questions put to me..........


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Andy, when you flow tested the plenim, did you draw through each trumpet from the head side and then compare the flow numbers or did you blow through the TB and measure the flow out each trumpet?


To be fair nothing is ever drawn through, either in testing or in practical terms. We live in a flood of air that wants to fill empty spaces, throttle bodys and valves just block its path - a turbo just increases the ferocity of the flow of the flood so accurate testing should give a fair indication of the dynamics of a plenum.

Would be pretty cool to have a bunch of alternating blockages at the runners (to match the valve timing events) when pumping air through to see what happens. Impractical, but still interesting


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Almost like 1 atmosphere

TBH Feeble self gratification is boring to read.

Theres really no informative discussion going on here

Zzzz.


ps I miss NXTAWT


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I agree, getting absolutly no-where in the PM session either.......

I was hoping to get some usefull tips and usefull information. 

Total waste of time..........lets ALL just leave it alone shall we.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Nothing but informative and direct answers to direct questions... not enough for some.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Mike FFS if you want me to post all my questions and all your vaige, NOT TO THE POINT answers just say so.

You have told me NOTHING I didn't already know mate so let it go.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Can if you want... I am over it.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I was being serious, willing to hear what you had to say and was hoping you could tell me exactly what you thought I needed to do to improve the plenims and how I'd go about testing it, IMO, I got nothing of any use what so ever.

Here's a start:

Rob: Do you think there is an unacceptable % of uneven distribution into each cylinder?

Mike: There is no way to tell if you have not flow tested it. Yes you can make corrections with an ECU but why would you want to compensate for bad flow characteristics. 

But Mike, I don't use any corrections in the ecu and as you say, without flow testing it you also don't know how even it is......my on dyno, on road and on track testing would indicate to me at least that it must be pretty good but thats just my opinion.


Rob: Do you think the shape of the trumpet is a serious issue? if so, why.

Mike: Serious? Hard to say... an issue? Yes. Inlet losses are created around any sharp edge or non-contoured profile. An inlet loss is an area where the fluid has to "turn a corner" and a flow restriction is created. A proper "trumpet" design is close to an ideal shape to prevent inlet losses.

No s^&t and fair enough, never argued that point and it had been brought up many times in the past, only thing is neither of have any idea how "differently" the way I do things is over what you say is "close to ideal"


Rob: Do you think where the mouth of the trumpet meets the plenim body is a serious issue? if so, why?

Mike: As above.



Rob: Do you think I have lied about not using individual cylinder trim?

Mike: No, I have never called you a liar.

Mike: It is not all about cylinder trim but cylinder pressures and temperatures which none of us can measure... without robbing a bank anyway.

OK, so once again, we don't actually know if its good, bad or indifferent in my application.


Rob: OK, so if I havn't made any corrections with the ecu, same timing and same fuel per cylinder and everything on every cylinder looks/is identicle, would you accept that if there is an imbalance (which no dought there is to some degree) its not of concern at this stage of development?

Mike: You can't say it is not just based on fuel and ignition timing, you should know better than that.

wtf? :chairshot tell me then......

Rob: If a guy has stock itbs and a stock plenim and wants to make 750hp+, do you think he'd flow better with a Nismo plenim and the stock itb's (because that would be seen as a common upgrade) over one of my plenims and a 90mm throttle body, yes or no.

Mike: What does he want to do? Drive down the quarter then garage it or endurance/circuit racing? I think you know the answer in each case.



Rob: If no then surely one of my plenims with 90mm throttle body, even if it isn't an optimum design would be seen as a worthwhile, economical upgrade especially if its less expensive than a nismo plenim and he can customise my plenim to suit his own requirements? 

Mike: Depends on application. As above.

Mike then went on to agree that the flow would be better with my plenim and a 90mm throttle body but the response may not be in a track application, I agreed thats possible because we havn't done any back to back tests to prove it either way but the response in all of the GTRs I've driven with around 750hp with one of my plenims would be more than acceptable in a track situation, in fact people (like Lith) who have been in such a car with me have agreed its extreemly good if not brutal in its off and on response and also from low rpm.


And thats where we are at, nothing else to say really, glad we are both over it and we can move on to better things.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Rob, I haven't got anything to add to your plenum discussion, but "dought" is actually spelt doubt.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

so the reality is that he hasn't got anything useful to add in PM as he hasn't got anything useful to add in the general forum.

My 2p.

I have been doing quite a bit of reading lately as I am dissatisfied with a number of areas of my current build, one of those areas of reading has been about TB sizing and how it can affect response dynamics and velocity. With too large a TB it would seem that response becomes more difficult to modulate as smaller movements of the foot allow vastly more air through the TB, and with a larger area to fill the velocity of the air is reduced which can lead to running out of puff earlier in the rev range.

This is certainly less important in a turbo engine as the turbo can mask both these problems, but where low or off boost performance is important correct TB and inlet tract sizing can make a big difference to the engine dynamic.

A number of the sites I have read suggest that for anything under 500bhp a 60mm tb is plenty big enough , even going as far as 750bhp only requires a 70-75mm tb.

I wonder if the split plenum (look at that I am on topic!!) is about helping the to keep the velocity of the air high to improve on overall effeciency?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Rob if your making plenums to sell to the public surely you would have done some development before making them? how do you arrive at the plenums volume that you are making? putting something on a engine and saying it ran a 7 second is not the way I would do something,hence why this big valve head is not done yet. you don't revel all the secrets you have learnt on a public forum.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Rob if your making plenums to sell to the public surely you would have done some development before making them?


Of course, although I havn't flow tested on a flow bench, we fitted plenims to my own cars, customers cars, friends cars and dyno'd them with good results, not once did we find anything that made us think there was an issue and to this date that is still the case although I agree (as I always have) no dought with a suitable budget for testing they could be improved on just as pretty much anything on the types of cars we all drive could be improved on with a suitable budget. 




[email protected] said:


> how do you arrive at the plenums volume that you are making? putting something on a engine and saying it ran a 7 second is not the way I would do something.


Its not the way I have done it either, remember I have made plenims like this for 7-8 years, it started off as making something basic and tidy to get rid of the long intercooler plumbing required with a front mount when running a RB25, it had to fit in the engine bay, clear brake and clutch boosters, have the TB in a suitable position for intercooler plumbing and throttle cable etc so I have had very little control over the basic shape of the plenims, we make them so they fit, look good, are strong and as long as we keep getting good feedback from customers, although I'd LOVE to do alot of flow bench testing, its not high up my list of prioreties.

The fact we run good times and mph at the boost levels we do with reliability, even cylinder tunes (as best we can tell from our data and what we can see), just confirms to me that although surely not perfect, the plenim is not an area we MUST spend alot of time and money on changing. 

Andy......seriously......you said you have flow tested plenims and no question you have more experience than I do with a flow bench, if you wanted to do back to back comparisons between different plenims for a boosted application, how would you go about it? I'd be interested to have a go one day.

Rob


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Can the ****en admins do some ****en admin'n and kick_all


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Can the ****en admins do some ****en admin'n and kick_all


Why don't you 'search' for them?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Delete the whole thing for all I care, total waste of everyones time


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Well I was watching in the hope something useful might happen, but it seems to be a lot of handbags and not a lot else!

Unfortunately though can only really lock if OP asks us to.


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

rob forget the flow bench and get yourself a disco smoke machine! (cheap flow bench in some tuners eyes.....)


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Because this is imho much more interesting than arguing about intake manifold designs that have nothing to do with the original posters question - so here are some more pics of the design and creation of a twin intake manifold design for a 2000hp 4G63 I referred to earlier in the thread:


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

i think is a bit overkill for our applications , i dont find any reason to use something like this since i can go over 1000 with the nismo or stock one, if it would be for 2000hp then ok. What is the difference of the 2 entries vs single entry, if we make a single entry at the same size isnt the same result?


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## vettekiller (Feb 29, 2008)

well boys!!

i got great news, my manifold made by RIPS ( rob) is a total success!!

i just got the time to put it on the car and guess what ? i put it on the car and i spect one think ! is to go leaner because it have more air into it. so at same tune the car went to 11.7 to 13.0 a/f so i am so happy waitting to my tuner to come and see the great number as it should. 
my tune was at 21psi , but i had to disconect the boost valve to drive only by spring and i have 19psi and car do 13.0 i am guessing if i go up to 21psi as it was before it will be leaner!! so conclutions, leaner !! means will do more power at same level!!.










great job rob!! 

jeffrey


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Wow, thats quite a substantial amount more... nice  Though scary as well, don't pop it!!!

Whats the engine/turbo setup?


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## vettekiller (Feb 29, 2008)

Lith said:


> Wow, thats quite a substantial amount more... nice  Though scary as well, don't pop it!!!
> 
> Whats the engine/turbo setup?


that´s a r26 with tomei cams and rips single turbo kit T04Z SET UP AND YES i drove it around just see the react with this plenum and get it back to the warehouse , waitting to be tune !


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## HenrikE (Mar 23, 2006)

Even though the real discussion about plenum design has gone over to something else in this thread i hope i can bring it back to life by posting a link to a swedish site wich i translated with google translate. I hope you guys that dont read swedish can make something out of it anyway?

Plenum flowdynamics

There are some guys on there with realy good knowledge about flow dynamics who is doing alot of real life tests also so theres alot of interesting discussion on that forum.
E.g. Andre has had alot of discussions with the greek (Spyros Papadakis) which i think that Lith is posting links about. 
He theoretically proves that if what Spyros has accomplished is true/possible he would be kidnapped by a F1 team by now 

Thread about Spyros

Hopefully some of you might think the links i posted are to some use i you take the time to read it all that is


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## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

Just found some photos online, would this model perhaps be possible on an RB?


























Ron


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

it looks smooth symmetrical but i dont think that it will fit in a skyline bay.


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