# Upgraded/Programable/Faster ATTESSA ECU!!



## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

For those that haven't been reading my post on... 

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/146447-borgwarner-efr-8374-vs-garrett-t04z.html

Geoff at Full-Race has been helping develop a replacement ATTESSA ECU. Those in the know will be aware that the R32 GTR is quite slow in reacting to firing up the 4x4.....And most that have driven them will know all about 45% oversteer before the 4x4 kicks in.

Now there are plenty of good 4x4 controllers out there, But all they do is give you an adjustment on how much kicks in, not how FAST.

This by all accounts will be a complete replacement of the 4x4 ECU, to give you an idea of the processing power difference (read: Speed) between the R32 and R33 to R34, The R32's processor is 10Hz, and ATTESA-Pro (the active rear LSD ver) was 100Hz in the R33 and 1Mhz in the R34.

This new unit is looking to be 4Mhz !!! :clap::clap:

To me, this would completely eliminate the need for any forms of traction control, and allow the 4x4 system to keep up with the likes of STI's and EVO's who have much better traction.

Watch this space, Geoff will keep us informed when it is available.:thumbsup:

Chris.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Chris, this is brilliant! 

Question - does it work only with active rear LSD cars, or any car? If any car, will the unit be compatible with the active rear LSD?

Aki


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

akasakaR33 said:


> Chris, this is brilliant!
> 
> Question - does it work only with active rear LSD cars, or any car? If any car, will the unit be compatible with the active rear LSD?
> 
> Aki


No it doesn't have to have the Active LSD, It will replace the 4x4 ECU.
Geoff has full R32 GTR running gear in his car (read: no active diff) so it will be built to handle at least that and more than likely the active cars as well.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Nice! Looking forward to updates on this. Surprised no one in Japan (that I know of) has tried to do this!


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Interested to know how exactly it works... a good aftermarket ECU (i.e. Motec or Vipec) could do the same using 3D tables using the OEM sensors as inputs. I would think so anyway, plus you would get 10 times the processing speed than this device (40MHz).


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

bigmikespec said:


> Interested to know how exactly it works... a good aftermarket ECU (i.e. Motec or Vipec) could do the same using 3D tables using the OEM sensors as inputs. I would think so anyway, plus you would get 10 times the processing speed than this device (40MHz).


This is just a 4x4 ECU, Not an engine ECU


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes I know. I would think an engine ECU could do the same; I am sure the same control is achievable setting up tables with inputs and PWM output using the Vipec V88. Just a thought.


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Loving the idea of this Chris mate!
Any ideas how long it might take him to get a working unit up and running?
Very exciting news!

Bob


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

sounds really interesting. will this be suitable for a R33 as well?
how much are they going to sell for?

sure an engine ecu could do the same, but how long would you need to spend trying to map it... hours, days, on track trying to get it set up right. and you would need a very competent mapper, which leads to ££££`s
a) cost of the right ecu - b) cost of setting it up - against cost of this device???

will it be direct plug n play type device?


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

amazing idea.....getting the system to act quicker

looking forward to how this goes its the next step 

clean'd the system out ready for new fluid & clean'd pump unit and connections allready

Nigel :thumbsup:


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Sorry guys I have no more info at the moment, Hopefully Geoff @ Full-Race will post some more info soon.

http://dccdpro.com/main/?page_id=3

http://dccdpro.com/main/wp-content/downloads/DCCDPro UNI.pdf

http://dccdpro.com/zcart/index.php?...s_id=2&zenid=1b2c3807d7a6cfd6fe8ab8b2d7334966


These are some links to the company that is developing the unit, They make controllers for the STI and EVO centre diffs, This module will differ a lot by the sounds of it, as it is going to be a full replacement of the ATTESSA ecu.


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

will they be going as far as adding YAW control into it ?

Nigel :thumbsup:


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Sounds very interesting. Looks like I've got another reason to empty my bank account then!


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

bigmikespec said:


> Yes I know. I would think an engine ECU could do the same; I am sure the same control is achievable setting up tables with inputs and PWM output using the Vipec V88. Just a thought.


Achievable, yes.
But someone would have to guinea pig the setup, pay for labour and development and then at the end of the day all they have is some maps to suit one type of ecu and a wiring diagram... if they wanted to share it.
You would also lose most of your additional ecu input/outputs which would likely otherwise be used for more engine specific parameters.


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## D-Ranged (Aug 16, 2007)

WOW! Awesome idea. Would the 33's benefit from this as well?


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## MrGT (Jul 6, 2009)

never driven a 32 how much slower is the reaction time of the 4wd compaired to the 33??

will this unit be compatable with the 33 or would seperate system need to be built (im not sure if the ecu's differ from model to model)

keep up the good work Chris and keep on at Geoff :thumbsup:

Tib


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

MrGT said:


> never driven a 32 how much slower is the reaction time of the 4wd compaired to the 33??


A lot! I've driven all three cars, And the most noticeable difference is between the R32 to the R33. there wasn't as noticeable difference from the R33 to the R34 but the R33 was the only V-Spec one, so had the A-Pro diff.



MrGT said:


> will this unit be compatable with the 33 or would seperate system need to be built (im not sure if the ecu's differ from model to model)


By all accounts it will be able to be wired into all three models, hopefully Geoff will be able to get wire codes for all of them.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Satansbodyguard said:


> will they be going as far as adding YAW control into it ?
> 
> Nigel :thumbsup:


At a guess, I wouldn't think so, That would mean adding additional sensors.

But a request could be put in?

Does anyone know where the EVO gets it's YAW sense from?


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

if i had a 32 i would but i dont think i would change my 34 one except if its tested many times and had a proof of it working 100%.


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

here's some links.....

Active Yaw Control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/review/e/pdf/2003/15E_11.pdf


but this part "It accomplishes this via two hydraulic clutches which can limit torque on individual axles. This system should not be confused with stability control systems which utilize the braking system of a vehicle by individually braking certain wheels to rotate and slow the car (such as Electronic Brakeforce Distribution). AYC is a performance-oriented system which aims to increase cornering speeds" 

looks like it's a hardware thing .....

Nigel :thumbsup:


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## armt350 (Aug 23, 2010)

If its anything like the previous DCCD controllers that manufacturer has made it will incorporate his 2 axis g sensor in the control unit for yaw inputs. R33's already having sensors (at least on the Vspecs, not sure on non V's) use a different system of center diff controls however this should be a programmable replacement for those sensors.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Sub Boy said:


> A lot! I've driven all three cars, And the most noticeable difference is between the R32 to the R33. there wasn't as noticeable difference from the R33 to the R34 but the R33 was the only V-Spec one, so had the A-Pro diff.


I would assume that with any ECU the R33/34 system would always react quicker because (as I understand it) there is always a small front torque 'preload' going forwards whereas the R32 is 100% until the ECU says otherwise.

I wonder if the ECU could be used on any version does this mean my standard R32 GTR could have an A-Pro diff transplanted in (with the appropriate config of the ECU)?


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## Fuel Performance (Aug 31, 2010)

Looking forward to this...


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

10Hz, rubbish.

The R32 has a slower reaction time because the hydraulic system has less pressure at rest.

It's not about the electrics, it's about the mechanics.


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## armt350 (Aug 23, 2010)

I have to doubt this will be a improvement for any of the active diff r33's or r34's.

The dccd uses a 4mhz processor with a 10bit output vs the 16bit processor in the R33/34's. 

It uses a 2 axis sensor as opposed to the 3 axis measurments taken by the stock ecu/sensors. As R32 combat mentioned, it wont make your mechanical side any faster.

All in all i see it being a great upgrade for R32 owners.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Not sure yet, Being that Geoff has a R32 setup in his S14 it will more than likely be built with that in mind, However time will tell.


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## Mwohaaahaahaa (Feb 19, 2010)

just out of interest can you change an r33 ATTESSA for and r34 ATTESSA? Would that then increase the response from 100Hz to 1MHz? 

Also What other components would be needed for a conversion like this if it could be done?


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

Sounds cool, really interested in the outcome 

Has anybody ever tried to fit a BNR32 V-spec ATTESSA ecu into a standard BNR32???

Is there a noticable difference???

Cheers,

Leo


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Austrian GTR said:


> Sounds cool, really interested in the outcome
> 
> Has anybody ever tried to fit a BNR32 V-spec ATTESSA ecu into a standard BNR32???
> 
> ...


Doesn't the R32 V-Spec have the active rear diff. If so fitting it in a car without an active rear diff would surely be counter productive.


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

Cris said:


> Doesn't the R32 V-Spec have the active rear diff. If so fitting it in a car without an active rear diff would surely be counter productive.


Nope, BNR32 V-spec ATTESSA System is the same as on the standard one, only difference is the faster ATTESSA ECU in the V-spec 

Active rear diff was on BCNR33 V-spec's 

Leo


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

I am not sure if this is the correct section, but have you try one of Andy's Skylab controller?

On my R32, it is very noticeable...
It isn't any quicker, but by tracking the ECU and getting more power to the front wheel, you can massively increase the stability of the car.

On the 7 setting, I was getting some power over when I exit the corner...
On the 8 setting, the power over is gone and I can hold the line with the power on at the exit.

Not sure if that is to do with speed, but it does accomplish the same thing and that is to add more stability and traction.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Nocturnal said:


> I am not sure if this is the correct section, but have you try one of Andy's Skylab controller?
> 
> On my R32, it is very noticeable...
> It isn't any quicker, but by tracking the ECU and getting more power to the front wheel, you can massively increase the stability of the car.
> ...


Completely different things.

The Skylab style unit justs fools the 4x4 into putting more into the front wheels.

This new unit will will speed up the reaction time.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Austrian GTR said:


> Nope, BNR32 V-spec ATTESSA System is the same as on the standard one, only difference is the faster ATTESSA ECU in the V-spec
> 
> Active rear diff was on BCNR33 V-spec's
> 
> Leo


Interesting. I always thought that the 32 V-Spec had the active diff. So ETS Pro is the active diff not just the different drive to the front wheels (which I guess means you can have the later R33 drive to the front wheels but not the active diff).

I wonder has anyone driven an R33 without the active diff and an R33 V-Spec with the diff to see what the comparison is?

My guess would be that the R32 V-Spec just has different parameters to the 'normal' item. Can't see why it would be a plug in.

I guess that the proposed unit would be like the Ruzic one in that you could tune it to your preference. Would be very nice to have a couple of switchable maps for different circumstances (road, track, rain etc).


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## TTOBES (Sep 28, 2007)

This is very interesting...

My next project is sitting in the workshop awaiting some time and money to procede. It involves transplanting the drivetrain and suspension, including the ATESSA system, into an older, non Nissan vehicle.
My first question, 'is it possible to get the ATESSA system working in another vehicle', has been answered.
The next one is....., as well as providing performance benefits, will this controller make this type of conversion easier???


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

TTOBES said:


> This is very interesting...
> 
> My next project is sitting in the workshop awaiting some time and money to procede. It involves transplanting the drivetrain and suspension, including the ATESSA system, into an older, non Nissan vehicle.
> My first question, 'is it possible to get the ATESSA system working in another vehicle', has been answered.
> The next one is....., as well as providing performance benefits, will this controller make this type of conversion easier???


I would say yes at this stage, But I'm only going on the small amount of info I have had from Geoff at this stage.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Cris said:


> I guess that the proposed unit would be like the Ruzic one in that you could tune it to your preference. Would be very nice to have a couple of switchable maps for different circumstances (road, track, rain etc).


I have a Ruzic unit in my car, And as far as the "4x4 amplifiers" go it is very good.
This unit however will allow the 4x4 to come on quicker, which at the moment is the let down of all other 4x4 controllers on the market.


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## Super_Dude (Jun 24, 2007)

What about being able to run staggared wheels\tires. That would a nice feature.


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## Red R Racing (Aug 22, 2009)

Sub Boy said:


> I have a Ruzic unit in my car, And as far as the "4x4 amplifiers" go it is very good.
> This unit however will allow the 4x4 to come on quicker, which at the moment is the let down of all other 4x4 controllers on the market.


Ruzic are developing a new product that will be very special and will take total control of the ATTESSA hydraulic system. It will allow the R33 and R34 cars to be full RWD as well as a drag mode. It will also allow much faster sampling rate of input sensors.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Red R Racing said:


> Ruzic are developing a new product that will be very special and will take total control of the ATTESSA hydraulic system. It will allow the R33 and R34 cars to be full RWD as well as a drag mode. It will also allow much faster sampling rate of input sensors.


Well if it is as good as the Ruzic Controller I have then it will be awesome!

....And if Geoff doesn't pull finger he might get beaten by them!!:nervous:


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

I think the standard controller unit reacts quick enough - it deals with very simple amounts of data, it is the latency of the sensors, the hydraulics, the mechanical action (physical transfer of torque), the weight transfer of the chassis, the development of grip from the tyre tread blocks that everyone should consider.

Also no one mentioned driver reaction time.


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

any more news on this ATTESSA system ????

Nigel :thumbsup:


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

...No Haven't heard anything from Geoff for ages....


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

hey guys - dont mean to be silent, things at Full-Race have been flat-out - ive never been this busy in my life. my daily driver evo build  is almost finished, and the R14 track car will be back under the spotlight getting all the attention once completed... This evo streetcar build has been taking every free minute <my girlfriend's patience have been running thin haha> so i havent had much time to post on the forums

The ETS-Pro torque split controller is almost finished with development and I have a ton of info to share as well as responses for the comments in this thread. I promise to get to this within the next 24-36 hours with details !


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

hmm...nice!!!

TT


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## Neesan (Jun 26, 2011)

Red R Racing said:


> Ruzic are developing a new product that will be very special and will take total control of the ATTESSA hydraulic system. It will allow the R33 and R34 cars to be full RWD as well as a drag mode. It will also allow much faster sampling rate of input sensors.


Hey Paul,

I take it it will be a full replacement for the standard GT-R ATTESSA controller ?

There was a big thread about this on SAU a while back, I was thinking of trying a transplant from something new into my R32 But if there are a couple being built to achieve this I might hold off !

Cheers,

Mitch.


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

Bring us the news :clap:

Leo


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm off to the ring in two weeks time for a couple of days,

Don't suppose you'll have a unit available by then? 

I could do some testing against the old unit and yours and see what differences we see.


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## Neesan (Jun 26, 2011)

Any news on this ?


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

there is a test unit ready for testing. I am not able to test for the next 4 weeks if you will be on the track heavily soon please email me [email protected] thanks. details are on my screen and i havent had a minute to organize it all for you


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> there is a test unit ready for testing. I am not able to test for the next 4 weeks if you will be on the track heavily soon please email me [email protected] thanks. details are on my screen and i havent had a minute to organize it all for you


keep us posted!!


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## Red R Racing (Aug 22, 2009)

Sub Boy said:


> Well if it is as good as the Ruzic Controller I have then it will be awesome!
> 
> ....And if Geoff doesn't pull finger he might get beaten by them!!:nervous:


New Ruzic one is Din mounted (like an audio headunit) and has motorised 7inch touch screen, lots of features and i may get my hands on a test unit at the WTAC event next month.


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## Neesan (Jun 26, 2011)

Red R Racing said:


> New Ruzic one is Din mounted (like an audio headunit) and has motorised 7inch touch screen, lots of features and i may get my hands on a test unit at the WTAC event next month.


MOAR details pls Paul ?


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

*Background: *With the Nissan's R32/R33 ATESSA ET-S computer leaving a LOT to be desired (works much better on R34) weve had many inquiries as to how do we control the Tq Split for our R14 Silvia/Skyline swaps? I came up with a clever solution which allows us to run a fixed torque split based off of hydraulic pressure. The problem with this is that it is not responsive to changing conditions like an active g-sensor system, although there is always plenty of traction its often too much and can push/understeer. At a regional time attack event, I met up with the very fast GST Subaru team and Mike Warfield. that's when I learned swapping a late model STi engine/driveline into an older subaru will require some way to control the center active differential (torque split). This is the same challenge i ran into with the R14 conversions. Some people have used the Motec system but it is not inexpensive nor is it easy to use. The new solution is DCCDpro.com and Jeff Reid, the founder/electrical engineer
*
FAQ:* http://dccdpro.com/main/?page_id=3









Installation details: http://dccdpro.com/main/wp-content/downloads/DCCDPro UNI.pdf
online store page: http://dccdpro.com/zcart/index.php?...s_id=2&zenid=1b2c3807d7a6cfd6fe8ab8b2d7334966

I sent an ATESSA test rig to jeff which he could hook up on his laboratory bench and experiment with:










we are well on our way to having a mappable and functional active-center-differential for the R32/R33/R34 GT-R.


*July 7, 2011 Update* -- Things are looking great with the ETS-Pro. Everything works on the prototype as it does on the production DCCDPro: g-sensors, ebrake cutout for handbrake turning, USB tuning etc. are fully working as expected. The final ETS-Pro prototype has recently been completed by jeff reid and is 100% functional, ready for testing. Right now I am traveling a lot so will not be able to test for at least 4+ weeks. If anyone is interested to test (particularly in canada) please contact me. If the in-car testing goes well, we can go to a production unit right away.

A brief summary of the system, with light technical details:


-The ATESSA-ETS primary solenoid is remarkably similar to the Subaru STI solenoid in terms of control and response/output. However, the GT-R has a lot more amperage draw than the Subaru stuff AND if we keep a low base pressure of ~20+psi, the response is instantaneous and can hit 250psi in less than a second...maybe tenths of a second even. This is much quicker than anything else that has been tested previously. Again this is 21 year old R32 GTR atessa pump, from a salvage yard, 100k KM on it. 

-if the solenoid takes the pressure down too low there is a large amount of lag present in the system, which is what the stock ecu allows and that everyone complains about "delay" for. we believe most aftermarket torque split controllers and other tricks to the stock system served to "trick" the ETS computer and make it retain pressure in the system, reducing lag.

-The new ETS-Pro firmware was designed to hold a bit of pressure at the bottom end to reduce system lag, and tuning the max top end to produce a hair more than full lockup of the clutchpack. If allowed, the pump can produce up to ~350psi+ instantly which is interesting (scary) on the least! I'm not sure what you guys have been able to do with the modified stock system but I was surprised that a hydraulic system go from nothing to basically 240psi in less than a few tenths of a second with some clever programming.

-Jeff charted the curve of duty cycle vs pressure and it is very manageable. The usable dutycycle is very narrow compared to the STi but we can still get an amazing resolution from the DCCDPro with the latest generation firmware we're using currently. (It can control the pressure to approx. 0.83 psi increments.)

-both R32 and R33 GTR ATESSA pumps were tested and we found virtually zero difference in performance between the pumps or solenoid. The computer and firmware/algorithms is the real difference.

-ETS-Pro can be in Manual mode which controls pressure directly off the knob setting, OR auto mode which uses the tps and g-sensors working off the algorithm and the knob for "gain". The Auto mode is able to respond immediately with very little lag and very precise pressure control....so far we're excited how well it is working as it is clearly exceeding the performance of the STI pump/solenoid that is typically modified.

-USB tuning will work as well as it does with the DCCDPro, but have not gotten to that point yet that is what we need on-car testing for. Auto mode is what I plan to use after working with GST's time attack subaru and seeing how well and simple it works for them. 

-one change we made was to incorporate a preset pressure switch to turn off the pump when it hits max psi with a switch and a relay. This is a safety as we have never seen a pump capable of reach speeds this quickly. Without a safety the pump can stall and pull way too much current through the circuit that it's on.

*
some questions ive received from other forum members:*
1) Q: where can i mount the unit? i noticed your instructions do not reference mounting dead center in the chassis (you suggest up near the firewall) however nissan's manual does - for example can i mount the unit in the left corner of the trunk? not that i want to, but just asking. I do understand the arrows and wires must face forwards of course

A: The control box itself could be mounted pretty much anywhere, we recommend that the g-sensor module get mounted in the physical center of the car for turning calculations. Same location as the stock unit is ideal right above the transmission (mine will be installed inside the car to protect it). The cable from the box to the g-sensor is about a meter

2) Q: how do you wire the pump? anything in particular to note? 
A: The pump will get wired to ignition switched power and of course an included relay to control the pump.

3) Q: How much will it cost? 
A: Its too early to know that, per my last conversation with jeff reid he mentioned hes trying to make it approx 399-499 hopefully it will be on the lower end of that!


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

WOW !!!! 

it sounds like an amzing bit of kit .....

ebrake cutout for handbrake turning ....sounds fun 

can't wait till i get one

any idea on cost at this point ?

Nigel :thumbsup:


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## strickaj (Oct 25, 2010)

+1
Seems like a big step up from the stock unit.


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

thanks guys, he said target price is between 399 and 499 .. im hoping more like 399


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> thanks guys, he said target price is between 399 and 499 .. im hoping more like 399


Where do we sign?:clap:

bob


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## strickaj (Oct 25, 2010)

Is that in USD or GBP?


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

USD, going off the success and qty for the DCCDpro product it looks possible but until the final product is tested/approved and sorted i cant say for sure.. worst case scenario of $499 ill still happily pay. I almost ordered a motec, at $1800 i felt it was worth while. thankfully i met jeff reid


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## strickaj (Oct 25, 2010)

Sweet thanks, you can put me down for one when they are ready to go.


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

Very interested at that price range, but the silver bullet will be comparison results between factory setup or factory + attesa signal controller and this new product.

I assume this will also allow (if desired) a certain amount of preload to be applied as a base, like how R33/R34 GTR attesa works? 
If so that could be a very good thing in combination with the higher sampling rate of the DCCDPro in making the AWD system more effective


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

yes, this system will come with basemaps and recommend starting points - but you can connect to it via USB and change the mapping to do whatever you like


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

Wow, that sounds really amazing :flame: :clap:

Hope it will be available soon for us...

... I'm definitely in 

Leo


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

fourtoes said:


> Where do we sign?:clap:
> 
> bob


+ 1 

sign me up for one :flame:

Nigel :thumbsup:


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Sounds like something I'd be in for too, especially at that price.

TT


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## muzzer2002 (Oct 10, 2007)

same here very intrested


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

as my 4wd light is on and its either the g-sensor or the ecu im in too lol!


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

If I buy one can I get my EFR any earlier?


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

any news yet ????


Nigel :thumbsup:


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## TEN57 (May 29, 2010)

Awesome idea, I'd be very interested in one. Please keep us informed


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

If I read this right this unit doesn't use longitudinal G, steering angle and wheel speed like the OEM system does. Kind of seems like one step forward and a few steps back???


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## arnout (Oct 29, 2003)

the stock system doesnt use steering angle, steering angle goes to the hicas ECU only


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

progress is coming along well, testing will commence shortly. Once things move along a bit more, Ill be sure to share some details on the setups and people who are testing (i think you guys will be as excited as we are)



lightspeed said:


> If I read this right this unit doesn't use longitudinal G, steering angle and wheel speed like the OEM system does. Kind of seems like one step forward and a few steps back???


you did not read that correctly, the G sensors are there and the algorithm developed is unique for this application. wheelspeed is not needed, nor is steering angle. Anyone with significant ATESSA experience (especially R32, even modified ones) when pushing to the limits on the track will tell you this is not a step back.


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

Bump !

1 Month on ..........


Nigel :thumbsup:


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

some info: 2 units are being sent to some high profile time attack skylines, Mark Berry's R34 GTR and another well known R32 GTR. there are a few big events coming up (including sprint Bathurst at Mount Panorama which is an awesome track with a 1.9km long straight - downhill.!).

we look forward to getting their feedback


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> some info: 2 units are being sent to some high profile time attack skylines, Mark Berry's R34 GTR and another well known R32 GTR. there are a few big events coming up (including sprint Bathurst at Mount Panorama which is an awesome track with a 1.9km long straight - downhill.!).
> 
> we look forward to getting their feedback


Oops, just sent you and email on this:nervous:


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

This sounds like a great box. The old R32 system is slow. I have watched it in action at the drag strip a number of times. You watch the car spin the rear tires, then about 10 feet out you see the front wheels do a bit of a half spin and grab. Its interesting. 

I worked on and drove an R32 GTR with a full R34 Vspec ATTESA system including rear diff and ABS. 

R32 A-LSD

The active rear diff is only control of the lockup. Not side to side control.










For the World Challenge R34 ATTESA system, it had adjustable ABS, adjustable torque split, and the Hicas Yaw sensor was used as an input to the ATTESA system. I have the wiring info, but unless the code was available, not sure exactly how they were using it.


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

Any updates?

Is this control unit ready for sale?

How does it know when to engage 4wd if there is no feeds from wheel speed sensors do detect wheel slip? i.e if the wheels are slipping why would you want 4wd?


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## aki (May 1, 2003)

Any update on this?


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

aki said:


> Any update on this?


Last I heard they were still testing it on a couple of big Time Attack cars to fine tune it.
I'll post some more info when I have it.


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

It's like waiting for christmas!!!!

Bob


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

correct - the prototypes are in australia getting tested currently by mark berry's time attack crew. we are awaiting feedback.. once they give their feedback soime slight programming changes will be made and then ill get one for use in my car  im excited


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Geoff,
Did you see the other post about the digital G-Meter? Would we need this as well?


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

sorry i dont know what you are talking about? this ETS-Pro has the g sensor module as part of it - suggested to mount in the same location as stock


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> sorry i dont know what you are talking about? this ETS-Pro has the g sensor module as part of it - suggested to mount in the same location as stock


This post,

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/158861-digital-g-sensor-improve-attesa.html

But if the ETS-Pro unit has it's own G-Sensor then I'll wait for this one, It will cheaper and adjustable unlike the Do-Luck one.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

+1 for Jeff and Geoff lol!

Used the DCCDPro on my transplanted Subarus, love it! I love the fact he continually offers upgrades to the system as well, will he do the same for this one too?


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> *Background: *With the Nissan's R32/R33 ATESSA ET-S computer leaving a LOT to be desired (works much better on R34) weve had many inquiries as to how do we control the Tq Split for our R14 Silvia/Skyline swaps? I came up with a clever solution which allows us to run a fixed torque split based off of hydraulic pressure. The problem with this is that it is not responsive to changing conditions like an active g-sensor system, although there is always plenty of traction its often too much and can push/understeer. At a regional time attack event, I met up with the very fast GST Subaru team and Mike Warfield. that's when I learned swapping a late model STi engine/driveline into an older subaru will require some way to control the center active differential (torque split). This is the same challenge i ran into with the R14 conversions. Some people have used the Motec system but it is not inexpensive nor is it easy to use. The new solution is DCCDpro.com and Jeff Reid, the founder/electrical engineer
> *
> FAQ:* http://dccdpro.com/main/?page_id=3
> 
> ...


JUST read this and now extremely eager to see this come through :clap::clap::clap:
Projected price is actually cheaper than the digital g-sensor sold by Do-Luck... And looks a better upgrade.


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> *Background: *With the Nissan's R32/R33 ATESSA ET-S computer leaving a LOT to be desired (works much better on R34) weve had many inquiries as to how do we control the Tq Split for our R14 Silvia/Skyline swaps? I came up with a clever solution which allows us to run a fixed torque split based off of hydraulic pressure. The problem with this is that it is not responsive to changing conditions like an active g-sensor system, although there is always plenty of traction its often too much and can push/understeer. At a regional time attack event, I met up with the very fast GST Subaru team and Mike Warfield. that's when I learned swapping a late model STi engine/driveline into an older subaru will require some way to control the center active differential (torque split). This is the same challenge i ran into with the R14 conversions. Some people have used the Motec system but it is not inexpensive nor is it easy to use. The new solution is DCCDpro.com and Jeff Reid, the founder/electrical engineer
> *
> FAQ:* F.A.Q.’s
> 
> ...


JUST read this and now extremely eager to see this come through :clap::clap::clap:
Projected price is actually cheaper than the digital g-sensor sold by Do-Luck... And looks a better upgrade.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

yep... but when?? (I want one too!)


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

Rain said:


> +1 for Jeff and Geoff lol! Used the DCCDPro on my transplanted Subarus, love it! I love the fact he continually offers upgrades to the system as well, will he do the same for this one too?


nice to hear you have a positive experience with his DCCDpro system - this ETSpro is very similar to that. YES one of the biggest upsides of working with Jeff is that he is in a constant state of evolution, and designs his products to take advantage of that. It is very easy to update the subaru DCCDpro via USB so that it is current to the latest revisions, and not have to purchase another new unit. solid engineering from a good man :clap:



Sub Boy said:


> This post, http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/158861-digital-g-sensor-improve-attesa.html But if the ETS-Pro unit has it's own G-Sensor then I'll wait for this one, It will cheaper and adjustable unlike the Do-Luck one.


thanks for the link, i had not seen that. You are correct, there would be no reason to purchase this Do-Luck sensor since it leaves you unable to change anything about the ecu's behavior. The point of the ETS-Pro is that its easy to add gain or remove gain off the preset map AND you can completely alter the map if you like via USB port. 



akasakaR33 said:


> yep... but when?? (I want one too!)


I have confirmation this will be released in mid-2012. he is simply awaiting more feedback after some small tweaks were made - before going to formal PCB (printed circuit board) production. Obviously he is aiming to keep the price quite low for the enthusiasts, and having to print PCB's twice would be painful



godzirra said:


> JUST read this and now extremely eager to see this come through :clap::clap::clap:
> Projected price is actually cheaper than the digital g-sensor sold by Do-Luck... And looks a better upgrade.


:thumbsup:


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## aki (May 1, 2003)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> nice to hear you have a positive experience with his DCCDpro system - this ETSpro is very similar to that. YES one of the biggest upsides of working with Jeff is that he is in a constant state of evolution, and designs his products to take advantage of that. It is very easy to update the subaru DCCDpro via USB so that it is current to the latest revisions, and not have to purchase another new unit. solid engineering from a good man :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update :thumbsup:. I am looking forward to seeing the feedback on this device.


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## R32 midnight (Oct 5, 2010)

What great news! hoping to buy the product soon.


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## ash911gtr (Aug 31, 2011)

I want one!


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## SeR GTR (Jul 5, 2009)

Wow. One Achilles heel of the GT-R Godfather might finally be solved. 



Austrian GTR said:


> Sounds cool, really interested in the outcome
> 
> Has anybody ever tried to fit a BNR32 V-spec ATTESSA ecu into a standard BNR32???
> 
> ...


Hmmm... Been thinking about this myself. Have a spare V-spec ATTESSA ECU in one of my Japanese boxes but don't know if it will actually work on a non v-spec model .


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

SeR GTR said:


> Wow. One Achilles heel of the GT-R Godfather might finally be solved.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm... Been thinking about this myself. Have a spare V-spec ATTESSA ECU in one of my Japanese boxes but don't know if it will actually work on a non v-spec model .


It should work. Pretty sure all the pins are the same. 

R32 A-LSD


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

And an R33 V-spec attessa, would that also fit an R32 GTR?


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## SeR GTR (Jul 5, 2009)

tyndago said:


> It should work. Pretty sure all the pins are the same.
> 
> R32 A-LSD


Ok. Hmmm... I'm wondering if installing it will have a better Attessa ET-S response.


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## Undutched (Sep 29, 2006)

How hard is it putting the ATTESSA back in? I removed it incl. all piping because it scared the crap out of me on country roads. If its fixable I want to put it in again haha.


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Surely you mean hicas?

Bob


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## .::TopSky::. (Nov 4, 2010)

Sounds verry good! Do you think it`d be a good upgrade even for the R34 owners?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Undutched said:


> How hard is it putting the ATTESSA back in? I removed it incl. all piping because it scared the crap out of me on country roads. If its fixable I want to put it in again haha.



ATTESA is all wheel drive
Hicas is rear steer.


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## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

*G Sensor*

Hi Geoff.
Just to clarify this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub Boy 
This post, Digital G-sensor to improve ATTESA? But if the ETS-Pro unit has it's own G-Sensor then I'll wait for this one, It will cheaper and adjustable unlike the Do-Luck one.
thanks for the link, i had not seen that. You are correct, there would be no reason to purchase this Do-Luck sensor since it leaves you unable to change anything about the ecu's behavior. The point of the ETS-Pro is that its easy to add gain or remove gain off the preset map AND you can completely alter the map if you like via USB port. 

Do you mean the ets pro has its own built in or supplied G Sensor replacement ?
If not then surely replacing the old analogue G sensor with the Midori linear, as opposed to their aggressive modified version ! Should be beneficial.

If you have the time mate, please could you clarify this point for me ?

cheers cokey


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

.::TopSky::. said:


> Sounds verry good! Do you think it`d be a good upgrade even for the R34 owners?


it is currently being tested on the fastest Time Attack R34 GTR in the world - Mark Berry's R34 GT-R













cokey said:


> Do you mean the ets pro has its own built in or supplied G Sensor replacement ?


YES the ETS-Pro system uses its own G-sensors. 




cokey said:


> If not then surely replacing the old analogue G sensor with the Midori linear, as opposed to their aggressive modified version ! Should be beneficial


you must remove the stock G sensor, and you should not use any G sensor except for ETS-Pro's own unit


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I'll be waiting for one of these.
You get the advantages of the Midori unit with the Digital G-Sensor, And a complete programmable new ATTESA ECU to boot.


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## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> it is currently being tested on the fastest Time Attack R34 GTR in the world - Mark Berry's R34 GT-R
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Geoff for making that clear.

Drop me a mail when you have one for me. :smokin:
cheers cokey


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

keep us posted about the Mark Berry's R34 GT-R results.


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

any links to Mark Berry`s GTR testing?.
last video was terrific and an inspiration for my car....


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

some feedback: 
"HI Jeff Sorry for such a late email. I did a lot of testing on the 20th last month. The unit worked flawlessly and was an unbelievably good improvement to the car. I bettered my previous best lap time by 2.34 seconds. 

A little info on the car:
Track only 1300 KG 
Soft racing slicks 
Modified transfer case by adding an extra clutch plate to give a little more preload.

First thing I noticed was that the traction gain dial only need to be turned about a quarter on. Later in the day I dialed in a little more. The car blew a head gasket latter in the day and is now being put back together for more testing on the 07/03/2012. We pulled the transfer out of the car for an engine rebuilt and checked it over everything was still ok. The oil was as new no burning or evidence it had gotten to hot.

All in all the product in its current form is really very very good and I would suspect that for the average user all they would ever need. Also the ability to change the curves will take care of the die hards. If there is anything in particular you may need please let me know if I can help." - test reviewer 1

side note: Ive been busting my ass to get my evo8 daily driver ready for the modified mag tuner shootout (fastest time attack street cars in the country). I was hoping to surprise everyone and run my evo for its debut race, march 30. unforutnately there was a mixup and modifieds guys put me down to enter the R14 (they didnt know i was building an evo) and said there are too many evo entries... if I wanted to be in the race i have to race in my nissan. So the heat is on, im getting the R14 ready and using the ETS-Pro. There is a chance an evo will drop out, and in that case ill try to race 2 cars. lots of work to do this month!


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Oh yeah! Bring it on!


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

i was thinking earlier isnt possible to get some of the r35 which are new technology and fit them to previous models?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

DrGtr said:


> i was thinking earlier isnt possible to get some of the r35 which are new technology and fit them to previous models?


Some of the R35 what?

The R35 ATTESA system uses an electronic lockup. It should be much faster than electric to hydraulic to mechanical. 

Anything is possible.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

tyndago said:


> Some of the R35 what?
> 
> The R35 ATTESA system uses an electronic lockup. It should be much faster than electric to hydraulic to mechanical.
> 
> Anything is possible.


sorry i meant sensors of the r35 which might be faster g sensors etc what ever possible which can upgrade on the previous models.
so its not possible to adapt this system let say attesa of the r35 to the r32,33,34?
i was watching an r35 yesterday and i went crazy with the grip they have and that gearbox sound like changing the gears with melody i wish i could put a gearbox like that on my car.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

DrGtr said:


> so its not possible to adapt this system let say attesa of the r35 to the r32,33,34?
> i was watching an r35 yesterday and i went crazy with the grip they have and that gearbox sound like changing the gears with melody i wish i could put a gearbox like that on my car.


Easy. Buy an R35. 

Here is the transfercase unit, that is located inside the transaxle. Its similar to what the Subarus use.










Some more information on the R35 ATTESA system. Not a lot has been done with the system yet. Nissan GT-R : Since 2007

The transaxle gearbox/transfercase, clutch unit are an assembly. You can get a quick shifting gearbox with a sequential, but its not going to be as fast as a dual clutch, dual shaft gearbox.

Nissan GT-R : Since 2007


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

i am very curious to see if someone did a conversion of the hole gearbox transfer box of the r35 to a previous model.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

DrGtr said:


> i am very curious to see if someone did a conversion of the hole gearbox transfer box of the r35 to a previous model.


The problem would be controlling it.


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

no way to use the r35 parts on a 32/33/34 trans, I already looked into it.


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

yes, instructions will be available once this is launched. in the meantime, take a look at the subaru DCCD-pro instructions and that will answer most of your questions about installation and where to mount the G-sensor

I am waiting for my prototype ETS-Pro unit to arrive shortly. Ive got my nissan together now, just waiting on a few last minute things before raceday March 30. I plan to do a detailed install of the ETS-Pro with photos, etc. maybe some video if there is time. The big question is whether i have time to install this R34 GTR 6speed (waiting on carbonetic clutch)


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

I began my installation last night, hope to have the install completed later today. Im making sure to document and detail the wiring, its very straightforwards










once my new PS pump arrives i can test it out.

edit: our race is march 30/31, and just found out im racing with a built R32 GTR who is talking some smack - the heat is on!


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## Vihis (Jan 1, 2008)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> edit: our race is march 30/31, and just found out im racing with a built R32 GTR who is talking some smack - the heat is on!


Can't wait to hear about it ! 

Good luck with the race !


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I will be good to hear how you go with the race and the ETS-Pro Geoff!


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

keep us posted.

any results from Mark??


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

guys,
As Geoff is not a paid trader on here, can we keep this thread to the facts only and not starting lists to buy.
As soon as the units become a commercial product we will look at ways for Geoff to sell them through the forum

Thanks

Mook


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

Hopefully Geoff has some positive feedback on the controller from the weekend's event


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## ash911gtr (Aug 31, 2011)

Any updates?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

ash911gtr said:


> Any updates?


They were first on the dyno, first in the Autocross. Broke a stock ignition coil before the drag strip portion. 

"1st place on the dyno, 1st place in autocross, bad coilpack ended our day. We set out to prove the R14 conversion kit, ETS-Pro and EFR turbo today but sometimes stock parts break at this power level..."


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

thanks for posting Tyndago. The ets pro worked GREAT for us this weekend. keep in mind i have a 100% stock R32 gtr transmission right now, so the transfer case was not shimmed (yet) and did not get the super aggressive lockup that adding more transfer case plates acheives. 

We ran the ETS-pro dial at approx 75% gain and it was the best this car has ever felt by a large margin. I am sooo pleased with how well the car came out and everything was working in concert, cant stop thinking about the changes i want to make to the transfer case but i am getting married in 2 weeks so you might not hear from me for a little while

edit: I promise to post a "how to" on how to properly setup a stock GTR rear differential (it works incredibly well!!) and how to add plates to the xfer case


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## ash911gtr (Aug 31, 2011)

Great stuff! Sounds very promising! :clap:


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

here is a crappy cellphone video of the fastest auto-x run of the day, you can hear our coilpack working, then not, then working then not. soo frustrating, I can only imagine how much faster we would have gone without the miss. (there is some much better footage from modified magazine, ill post once they upload it.)

at the launch all 4 wheels are spinning (everyone had to use street tires this year) and then at the end you can see a perfectly controlled 4 wheel drift. the car never did that before the ets-pro





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXQIAItrRFo


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Awesome stuff Geoff! 700hp is nothing to sneeze at from the BW EFR 8374 either!

Glad to here that the ETS-Pro worked well, Yeah a post on diff shimming etc would be great!

P.S Give Raffi a poke for me....He hasn't replied to my emails!
Chris.


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

thanks chris, raffi will be back in the office tomorrow - sorry if you did not get a response from him. I think the diff shimming post will help a lot of people, im super excited to start getting more serious about the RB and driveline setup. Ive made my decision to more heavily develop this platform, in the hopes of attending WTAC 2013 - im going to take pics of all my driveline mods and post online so others can learn from it and do the same


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> thanks chris, raffi will be back in the office tomorrow - sorry if you did not get a response from him. I think the diff shimming post will help a lot of people, im super excited to start getting more serious about the RB and driveline setup. Ive made my decision to more heavily develop this platform, in the hopes of attending WTAC 2013 - im going to take pics of all my driveline mods and post online so others can learn from it and do the same


Outstanding!!! Looking forward to the developments..

TT


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> thanks chris, raffi will be back in the office tomorrow - sorry if you did not get a response from him. I think the diff shimming post will help a lot of people, im super excited to start getting more serious about the RB and driveline setup. Ive made my decision to more heavily develop this platform, in the hopes of attending WTAC 2013 - im going to take pics of all my driveline mods and post online so others can learn from it and do the same


+1 for this ....


Nigel :thumbsup:


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Full-Race Geoff said:


> thanks chris, raffi will be back in the office tomorrow - sorry if you did not get a response from him. I think the diff shimming post will help a lot of people, im super excited to start getting more serious about the RB and driveline setup. Ive made my decision to more heavily develop this platform, in the hopes of attending WTAC 2013 - im going to take pics of all my driveline mods and post online so others can learn from it and do the same


Awesome, I'm going to fly over to WTAC in Sydney this year, And will no doubt go next year too, My Step Father used to manage Earl Bamber, and helped out on Josh and Murry Coote's MCA "Hammerhead" S14 at the last one, So I'm going to help push tyres around for them this year.


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

video of time attack practice session 1 the car gets on it around 1:08 to the end. I get married this weekend  so ill be away for a few weeks, but when i get back to AZ I know my chassis and engine/turbo/driveline combo works well now so the next change will probably be an RB30 and Pro-EFI ecu (due to the traction control system, to combat 4 wheel spin) and then competitively race it

Full-Race will have the ETS-Pro units ready in just a couple weeks tops, and we will become a forum sponsor on here


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Look what I found on the Full-Race Website.....

ETS-Pro Center Diff Torque Split Controller for R32 R33 R34 Skyline GT-R - Full-Race.com

This is going to be worth the wait!


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

Looks very promising!
Seeing as you'll becoming a forum sponsor Geoff, any chance of a group buy special?


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

i will talk to mookistar and see what will work best


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## ash911gtr (Aug 31, 2011)

Has anyone got one of these yet? seem to be available now.


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

we are shipping the ETS-PRO units now, not sure who will post up first. we recommend shipping FedEx International Economy but if anyone would prefer USPS that is fine. HOWEVER We have had some issues in the past with USPS (whether it be slow transit times or undelivered packages) and aren't responsible for prolonged delivery times, damage, or lost items with any shipments via USPS. just an FYI since weve had quite a few questions about this


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## cobrAA (Jun 1, 2008)

any update on those transfer case mods?


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## Full-Race Geoff (Jun 22, 2006)

i got the tcase apart, but have been super busy and not had time to do the writeup. my writeup for the rear LSD is almost ready however


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## camlob (Nov 8, 2008)

Any update on this?


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

camlob said:


> Any update on this?


http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/164316-e...plit-controller-r32-r33-r34-skyline-gt-r.html


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