# How Much to buy a 700 BHP R32 in the U.K ??



## UNDERDOG (Aug 29, 2004)

*how much can i pick one up for ??

AND How reliable will it be??

are there any for sale at the moment ??

who's the best person to re map the car for optimax ???

thanks*


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

In this climate of devalues ,who knows .Abbey can map the car .Whats with all the reposts cluttering up the page ?


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## PMJ (Sep 11, 2001)

you can have mine for the right price...


Not


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## The_Truth (Dec 22, 2005)

Relaible - no. The purchase price is the cheapest feature of these cars. The real expense is running them. I have known people spend the cost price annually to keep a big power GTR on the road.

The more you push a car the more unreliable it becomes.


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## -C- (Oct 16, 2003)

I read on here once that to go above 700bhp, you need to be able to write cheques for 5 figure sums..

My experiences were having a few little niggles, but nothing 'catastrophic'. You have to be able to consider what you will do if the engine lets go & how you can have it rebuilt.

You are also in the territory of the achillies heel of the car - the gearbox.


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

I'd say between 15 and 20k. A tuned 32 from japan is 10k-15k then at least another 5k sorting out suspension for UK roads, ecu for UK fuels plus any worn items like clutch, brakes, bushes etc.

Most people who've gone through the sweat and tears of building a GT-R into a reliable 700hp aren't going to be selling them for a few years.


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## sleepyfox (Jul 9, 2005)

Going through that pain at the mo! And I'm only aiming for 500-550...

Certainly after I've finished spending another 10k+ on top of the purchase price I'm not going to be selling any time soon LOL!

Fox
---


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

What drives the need for 700bhp at 600bhp you will have a car that will be faster than most of the super cars eg stage one R32GTR 420 bhp 0 to 60 3.5 Enzo Ferrari 0 to 60 3.3


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## UNDERDOG (Aug 29, 2004)

why 700 bhp

a gtr in my opinion is not made to stay stock its a platform for 500 + BHP

i want a engine setup similar to the Mines R34 which has been called the response monster with its dual HKS 2540 turbo's

700 bhp with this setup will be the ideal setup for a fast road and track car rather than a higer hp laggy motor

and u see to many GTRS with 400 -500 bhp


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

everything said is true but if the work has been done well there is no reason why it shouldnt be any less reliable than a standard car. Being done well means that someone will have spent a lot though, the block will have been worked on, its not rated for over 600 - all depends.
For a reiable car ready done try Gt-Culture, Power vehicles or any of the good importers, I doubt you will find a good one privately


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## NoNothin (Aug 6, 2003)

liquidculture said:


> everything said is true but if the work has been done well there is no reason why it shouldnt be any less reliable than a standard car. Being done well means that someone will have spent a lot though, the block will have been worked on, its not rated for over 600 - all depends.
> For a reiable car ready done try Gt-Culture, Power vehicles or any of the good importers, I doubt you will find a good one privately


Not strictly true. A highly tuned car will nearly always have more 'niggles' than a standard one and stands much more chance of a catastrophic failure.
The block is rated way past 600bhp, as is the crank, but some of the internals arent (pistons, rods, rod bolts etc).

For my money privately is the way to go, it is your only hope of knowing the true history. Buy from a reputable tuner like Abbey or GTaRT. Some of the importers may have good contacts but they can only do limited inspections and can't dismantle the car to check the internals. In contrast Abbey et al know the condition of the car because they actually built it.
Also to consider is the fact that a lot of the cars coming over here are sh*gged anyway (a point noted some time ago by SteveN), ask yourself if it is such a good car why haven't the Japanese bought it?

Search the board for tales of woe from people who bought cheap, high power cars which were awesome for a few months until they went bang!! 700bhp isn't cheap so choose wisely.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

You are correct in all that you say but there are good cars to be had from importers, no different to buying privately - some good some bad and I would never suggest buying a cheap high power car unless you wanted to do a lot of work on it, can be a good base for a project but not otherwise. just that very few are sold privately and you have to know why they are selling. Under 600 I wouldnt be so worried but over usually people keep them. Abbey etc are probably the best place to go but they dont have them very often. 
I did mean the block wasnt rated for over 600 as standard with the internals, should have been more specific.
I have bought a high power car from an importer and have only good things to say, there are a few specialising in high power cars and they arent all shagged, some are coming over with virtually rebuilt engines ready for the next owner. Investigate their websites and keep looking until you feel confident in what you are looking at before you sepnd time going in person and especially look at as many as you can before you buy, you will find that the importers cars are in Japan and the first time you see them will be after you have paid for them so you do have to be confident that you are dealing with an expert.
Just take your time.


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## colin c (May 24, 2002)

I'm in the same boat myself. Not much over here for sale but there are some good deals to be had in Japan. Seems to be about being in the right place at the right time and dealing with reputable companies that don't rip you off. The Endless car recently sold in Japan with 1000hp for about 3.5million yen! 

Lots of good 33's around but good 32's seem to have dried up a bit. There was at least 6 good cars with recent engines (N1 block and internals etc) and high spec available for About £15k a few months ago! 

Here's a uk car but seems a bit OTT price wise.

http://www.skylineowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37749


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

UNDERDOG said:


> why 700 bhp
> 
> a gtr in my opinion is not made to stay stock its a platform for 500 + BHP
> 
> ...


Are you seriously telling me you think that 700bhp from a 2.6 litre engine wont be laggy, and will be 'reliable'


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

UNDERDOG said:


> i want a engine setup similar to the Mines R34 which has been called the response monster with its dual HKS 2540 turbo's


Its got 2530s mate, which wont get you 700bhp.

And theres a difference between what lag/responce really is and what most people mean by it.

Watch a vid of the mines car, above 4.5k it is v.responsive, but then again most turbo cars are once you in their powerband.
But below 4-4.5k its not got the power, so in most peoples jeremy clarkson style idea of what lag is, its "laggy" (infact its not, its just not in the boost threshold till about 4.5k).
You can tell its trying a few times on the vids when the revs drop to about 3.5-4k, you can hear the sucking as the turbos start to spool as the guys got his clog down, but the revs slowly creep to 4.5k then the thing goes off like a rocket.

So it depends what you want, if you want lots of low down power, ie below 4-4.5k, you wont find it with 99% of 700bhp setups.
But if you just want quick responce at high rpm once the car is actually in the powerband, yup, thats do-able.

Reliable depends how its done n how its mapped, but its never gonna be trouble free if driven hard, we talking about an engine pushing about 300bhp per litre, on pump fuel, revving v.high to make the power, and on the high compression the engine will no doubt be specced as, thats some big cyl pressures etc to cope with.


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## Dave_R1001 (Nov 24, 2002)

You need big balls to buy a big power car like that unless you know the entire history of it and its use. Its alot of money to spend out on top if it goes wrong. 

Why not buy a good rolling shell from one of the big tuners and buid something up yourself? Surely if you've got the money to spend its the more enjoyable way to do it and would provide most peace of mind?


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Buy one from a private owner who has lovingly cherished and built the car in the UK. You have no clue, only SALESMAN speak about the car from Japan !! and I speak from a good friends experience !!! 

I got my car from Japan 7 years ago and have lovingly cherished it and "moded" it over this time. The car would cost far more in component parts if sold, however you cld offer me £50k for it and it wouldnt be for sale !!! I am a true Skyline owner who would not sell his pride and joy !!!

Get a standard car from Japan and then find a tuner here in the Uk you can trust and get on with (but make sure you do have a BIG wallet) Once done you will enjoy p*ssing over a lot more expensive err "super cars" and you will also have the pleasure of knowing that you are in one of the worlds finest, rare cars ever made !


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## UNDERDOG (Aug 29, 2004)

its ok i understand allot of you guys are reserved and think i should start from stock .

but i think its allot more cost effective to get a tuned GTR and just get it remapped for 98 ron when it comes over .i think allot of people who import jap turbo's forget that japs run on 100 ron so on our lesser iraq juice there gonna det more so a re map is needed .
maybe water injection too

the HKS 2530 setup on the mines car to me seems very responsive for a 700 bhp 1.7 tonne car 

on the UPHill on ebishi circuit the car was bogging down 
but if you watch the new bmi battle na v turbo you can see how responsive the set up is on the tskuba with its flat circuit 

the twin turbo set up with the HKS roller bearing turbos really help response
a point which is proven when the car did a 57 second lap of tskuba 2 seconds slowed than the HKS carbon evo.

SteveN 

yea Clarkson does talk allot of opinionated crap 
i saw him testing the evo 8 ..of course its gonna bog down in a high gear at low rpm.. thats why you keep it in the right gear and in the powerband.
but the morons believe him 
when racing your always above the lag rpm range point..
*
and on the high compression the engine will no doubt be specced as*

so is the trend for JDM tuners not to lower the Compression
in the honda world we lower the cr with a head gap or pistons 
and boost higer as we have the same effective compression ratio with the higer boost .
but less chance of pre ignition !!!!

Dave_R1001

People in japan are differnet to us Brits they do things properly 
if they make a 700 bhp motor they will uprated all other parts to cope with the power .like a gtir we had everything was uprated to cope the box,the pistons .so long as its not a half arsed job it will be ok

the uk trend is to try and get cheap big power 
as shin from Pro spec kind of hinted at in the GTR video by duke 
just what i have seen myself aswell cooling ,has to be considered and other issues which require gtr tuning experience that the japs have over a decade of 


Steve yea sales man speach


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## -C- (Oct 16, 2003)

Not necessarily - *everyone* cuts corners somewhere if you look hard enough...

As for buying a standard car & tuning it yourself - personally having gone down this road with my Evo I would steer anyone away from it. The amount of money & time it consumes is quite frankly frightening, that doesn't even take into account the amount of stress it causes. Its still not finished even now.

As a comparison, I wanted a high power Skyline (more than you were looking for) but I wasn't getting one built - I wanted one already done so save me on time/effort/money.

It soon adds up when you can stick £30k into an engine, £10k in a gearbox, plus all the other bits that add up, and all of a sudden you are knocking on the door of 6 figures, which is scary when you can for £20k buy a silly power 32, or £30k on a silly power 33 from Japan...

But, its not just the buying/building costs that will cripple you, its maintaining it that hurt. Mine is a good car, touch wood i've had nothing major go on it, it runs well & is frighteningly quick, but there is always the "what if" and it let go bigtime...

Good luck with what you decide though


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## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

building your own is expensive, i originally imported a modded one but the car turned out to be a dog. I ended up with a std minter and built it up from there. Yes expensive but i know the cars limitations if i launch at 10000rpm i know whats going to happen I thinks its a 50/50 on what you do with your money so f*ck it, blow the lot fly out to japan meet a tuner and do a deal:smokin:


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

Thinking on a bit if you were to buy a ready done high power car from Gt- Culture for instance who specialise in them and have a good rep., you should get a car that has been properly inspected at least. Then take it to Abbey or someone near to your home who is a respected tuner and get them to advise on improvements etc etc then the worse cost has been already spent and all you have to do is buy the parts needed to get it really 1st class. Im sure that would be the best way and a lot cheaper than doing it yourself.
If you made sure that the car you bought had all the major bits done then even if its badly set up its not going to cost anywhere near the same as starting from standard to finish off


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## keith (Jun 29, 2001)

UNDERDOG said:


> People in japan are differnet to us Brits they do things properly
> if they make a 700 bhp motor they will uprated all other parts to cope with the power


Hi UNDERDOG

When i bought my car in Japan it was a drag car running 700+ bhp
it was sold with a engine spec that inc a full 2.6 HKS crank + rod's 

When we opened the engine up it had a std crank   
and a set of Trust rod's 

I also know of a few engines that have come over with a big spec that 
have nothing more than std crank,rod's and pistons.

So do you still think the Japs do it properly    

Keith:smokin:


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

I don't necessarily think you're guaranteed a better car buying it privately as opposed to importing it from Japan. You will certainly save on tuning & parts cost importing an already-tuned car, since the parts & tuning is exponentially cheaper in Japan. As Keith has said though, buying it from Japan doesn't guarantee anything though - and there is always a danger of buying something that you aren't able to inspect in person to verify the spec (whether it be from the UK or Japan).

I might be mistaken but I'm not sure you get any sort of warranty with any of these cars, whether you buy them from GT-Culture, Prospec or direct from Japan (if I'm mistaken correct me). At most what you probably would get is a measure of goodwill if something relatively trivial goes wrong, or is missing from the spec sheet. If you knackered the turbos on a car imported through any of the UK companies I'd be very surprised if it wasn't immediately put down to "driver error".

The above all said - I would personally say that around 500bhp is the best streetable BHP.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

UNDERDOG said:


> the HKS 2530 setup on the mines car to me seems very responsive for a 700 bhp 1.7 tonne car


Its not 700bhp and its not anywhere near 1.7 tonnes.

And how can you tell responce? You cant see when he's putting his foot down, could be 5mins before the car accelerates for all you know.
A good race driver anticipates the lag if it has some and puts his clog down sooner to compensate.

Like mentioned anyhow, can see in the bits when hes below 4k or so thats its only responsive above 4.5k or so, as youd expect.

If you want and engine like that, your average 2530s setup car you will like a lot 



UNDERDOG said:


> the twin turbo set up with the HKS roller bearing turbos really help response
> a point which is proven when the car did a 57 second lap of tskuba 2 seconds slowed than the HKS carbon evo.


Why you say that? How does that prove anything?
The Mines car is a superbly fast track car, but i dont think its times show anything about the engine or turbo spec barring its pretty good.



UNDERDOG said:


> so is the trend for JDM tuners not to lower the Compression
> in the honda world we lower the cr with a head gap or pistons
> and boost higer as we have the same effective compression ratio with the higer boost .
> but less chance of pre ignition !!!!


The trend with Skylines in Japan and UK (Not so much in Aus etc etc) is to leave the compression as it is and slag off anyone who lowers it.

Then claim lowering it ruins drivability.

And then run race fuel, mega duration cams, and oversize turbos, to get the power they want with the high compression, making the pretty car horrid to drive apart from at 5k+, usually also meaning you cant run full boost unless you on race fuel, and of course that the in-cyl pressures bloody enourmous.

And then make out thats the best way to do it, and know the customers will just accept that as gospel and open their huge wallets.


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

UNDERDOG said:


> its ok i understand allot of you guys are reserved and think i should start from stock .
> 
> but i think its allot more cost effective to get a tuned GTR and just get it remapped for 98 ron when it comes over .i think allot of people who import jap turbo's forget that japs run on 100 ron so on our lesser iraq juice there gonna det more so a re map is needed .
> maybe water injection too
> ...


Some very good points, but why do people in the uk opt for cheap tuning and cutting corners? A. parts are so much more expensive B. Labour costs are massive!

If we were tallented as Nicolas Keisa ( who has himself built a very nice and power full R34 with over 700bhp) then we could do things properly, do it ourselves and save a lot of ££££.. Not even half the tuners can do a proper job and cut corners..

www.kismo.dk


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

GTR-Zilla said:


> Not even half the tuners can do a proper job and cut corners..
> [ur


What a wild sweeping statement that is ... and from a guy who refuses to use any of the UK tuners because he goes on and on about how overpriced he thinks they are.

How on earth would you know that the tuners (THAT YOU DON'T USE) cut corners ? I don't see any cut corners in Rocket Rons car, Tims car, Keiths car, Gary Passinghams car, Ron K's car, Micks Lemon, Fuggles car, Peters car, etc, etc, etc.

Perhaps you should open your own tuning shop and undercut everyone, do a better job and make your business financially successful.

Happy Xmas.


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

lol

I said half or some (there have been many cowboy job reports posted on here where the owner got shafted).. did I mention any names? I have used RonK and has always done a good job, no complaints and fair price too

Mate, Im a handfs on person, I like to do my own thing with my own hands...I just need a decent size garage (which I odnt have at the mo) and I`d do the job myself untill then im at their mercy like the rest of us...

example, I got some cowboy and son co. to do the bathroom tiles.. they did such a **** poor job that after few months they started falling off.. I thought sod that, I`ll do it myself! were all humans, and with a bit of effort and time you can do a better job and and knowing that the extra effort and time put in will make it all the more worth while..

Happy Days to you to Daz


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

Durzel said:


> I don't necessarily think you're guaranteed a better car buying it privately as opposed to importing it from Japan. You will certainly save on tuning & parts cost importing an already-tuned car, since the parts & tuning is exponentially cheaper in Japan. As Keith has said though, buying it from Japan doesn't guarantee anything though - and there is always a danger of buying something that you aren't able to inspect in person to verify the spec (whether it be from the UK or Japan).
> 
> I might be mistaken but I'm not sure you get any sort of warranty with any of these cars, whether you buy them from GT-Culture, Prospec or direct from Japan (if I'm mistaken correct me). At most what you probably would get is a measure of goodwill if something relatively trivial goes wrong, or is missing from the spec sheet. If you knackered the turbos on a car imported through any of the UK companies I'd be very surprised if it wasn't immediately put down to "driver error".
> 
> The above all said - I would personally say that around 500bhp is the best streetable BHP.


I dont think your guarranteed anything is better buying from japan - just more choice and cheaper, you do get a 'off the shelf' guarrantee - you could buy your own to be honest, and they usually have a limit around 2k but its better than nothing.
I did have an 'experience' with an importer and a couple of pistons melted soon after it arrived, not trivial - actually very expensive, it was very hard for me to prove that it wasnt my fault but after some discussion the importer paid for new pistons/head gasket/etc out of his own pocket so you do get comeback if the importer is there for the long haul its worth him doing that for the goodwill if nothing else.
You just have to use an experienced and established company with a good rep


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## Miness (Aug 24, 2005)

to quote a great man..lol.it depends on how fast u can afford to go


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Yunis - I think it's very commendable that people want to have a go at doing modifcations to their cars themselves - I wouldn't have a CLUE where to begin, I don't have the space to do it, and I don't have the time. So I "take my hat off" to anyone who's willing to give it a go. I just think some of your comments regarding the garages in this country are a somewhat misinformed. 

EVERYBODY makes a mistake ... and people always shout louder about the mistakes (look at David James ... a VERY good goalkeeper - but only his mistakes are ever highlighted). Someone making a mistake doesn't make them a cowboy ... because that makes us ALL cowboys. If a mistake is made the important thing is how it's resolved.

Anyway, this has gone wildly off topic. So i'll shut-it now ! LOL !


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## Pikey (Feb 19, 2004)

Daz said:


> Perhaps you should open your own tuning shop and undercut everyone, do a better job and make your business financially successful.


Well said  

On topic, I would say go out and buy a shed for 5k and overhaul the engine either yourself or pay someone to do it for you, then you get the exact spec you want and if you do all or some of it yourself you get an uber-satisfying warm glow - trust me :smokin: 

700bhp you'll want a hardcore gearbox, and they're mega bucks


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

good idea..


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

I admire people who can do the work themselves but working on cars does absolutely nothing for me whatsoever, I get tremendous pleasure and anticipation from having an expert do the work for me but most of all I like driving them once the work has been done


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

liquidculture said:


> I admire people who can do the work themselves but working on cars does absolutely nothing for me whatsoever, I get tremendous pleasure and anticipation from having an expert do the work for me but most of all I like driving them once the work has been done


Well I dont get any pleasure for seeing my hard earned ££££ in someones pockets...

I had a choice in the summer either pay someone £800 to do my inlet gaskets or do it myself and save £750 ..... i did it myself


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

id rather let someone do it than **** about myself if i got better things to do, but...

when i think most people charge so much and dont do engines to a spec i like, i end up doing a lot myself, even tho i dont find it fun.

BTW a hardcore gearbox is a good plan at over 700, but some people manage with a lot more with a std one, im gonna have to for a while i think... 

On most cars you find even the uprated boxs brake so its often more economicly viable to keep replacing std boxes rather than buy an uprated ones anyhow...


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## b19bstgtr33 (Oct 12, 2005)

i will be running on 700bhp mid jan on a standard box still , but as you say the boxs are well expensive. i would rather change 1 or 2 standard boxes a year than an uprated one a year or so. for now any way til i have the money for an uprated one.


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## UNDERDOG (Aug 29, 2004)

keith said:


> Hi UNDERDOG
> 
> When i bought my car in Japan it was a drag car running 700+ bhp
> it was sold with a engine spec that inc a full 2.6 HKS crank + rod's
> ...


Hi keith cowie your cars a amazing 


cars i get from japan are tuned properly sometimes they have more than i expected !!!! its a bit like pimp my ride JDM style sometimes !!!



ok fair enough i see your point it depends who inspects and then writes the spec on the car .

Allot of U.K boyz buy a Jap tuned car and "pass it off " i use the legal term as if its tuned by them !!!!

you know its true 
yea they mighr respray it or do some minor mods so they can say it theres

i was at this car show once and this guy was lieing about his evo saying he tuned it .
when asked the spec the guy did not know anything about it 
allot of u.k tuners reputations are based on work carried out on cars they brought as they were In japan


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## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

really.............such as


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## UNDERDOG (Aug 29, 2004)

SteveN said:


> Its not 700bhp and its not anywhere near 1.7 tonnes.
> 
> And how can you tell responce? You cant see when he's putting his foot down, could be 5mins before the car accelerates for all you know.
> A good race driver anticipates the lag if it has some and puts his clog down sooner to compensate.
> ...


hsy steven i like the fact your getting angry about it shows you have a true passion for tuning 

the mines car has 600 BHP and is 1450 kg in Rb japanese Muscle ) was 1553 kg in (best motoring Tuners battle royale 2005) was more in the video below 
so yes you were right and i was wrong 

*How do i know the Mines GTR is responsive ???*

1. as i have said before the twin turbo set up the uses 2 smaller turbos is more responsive than having one big unit for obvious reasons like keeping a good Ar ratio and trim and at the same time flowing enough air to make the power .so it can be said it has the advantag of having a larger turbo without the lag .

compare the mines car to the single turbo in tuners battle royale and this is shown .


2.RB ultimate response special 
orido descirbes the engine as "*this is fast ..........unbeatable" *Tyuchia 

" _shit ....daaaaaamm ...this is too fast..its too fast.....wow this is to quick ..shit the wheels are in the air ..this is the ulimate no doubt about it ..
its so fast that a dead man would scream .._

Orido 

.... *the engine is amazing when you shift up and step on th gas you feel an enormus power that pushes you from behind *
tsyuchia 
*....the acceleration is faster than the GT500 cars
unbelevable i felt more fear than pleasure etc etc* 

Mines owner i think we proved how important it is to focus on response 


http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=36035AA1-2B82-4AC1-87BD-771358852BEC&t=top&kw=9&p=1

The trend with Skylines in Japan and UK (Not so much in Aus etc etc) is to leave the compression as it is and slag off anyone who lowers it.

*Then claim lowering it ruins drivability.*
they need to go and read 
you can get the same power on a low Cr motor but with higher boost as you can with a high cr engine with low boost .and this will also reduce the risk of pinging allot .its all about the effective compression ratio !!!

Happy Xmas


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

lol, he hates the mines car with passion... its a load of rubbish

yts we are still waiting to see this so called monster R32 GTR with an ultra responsive OZ RB30..2 yrs in the making...lol


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Angry?! Where that come from!?  Seriously, im not mate, jus trying to explain.

About twins versus single, trust me when I say its not like you think it is. 
When all things are equal, the difference between a single and a twin of equal capability is as good as nothing.
Reason most GTR single setups etc look crap is they use honking great turbos that came off some 1940s battleship, like T88s etc etc.
You look at some cars running a single GT35R for about 600-650bhp, and compare it to others running twin GT530s for about 600-650bhp, and the single GT35R cars are genrally better, especially low down and in regards to torque.

About the car, it IS an awesome car, superbly fast, but the ENGINE itself is nothing flashy at all.
The basis is really just 2530s, mild duration cams, and plenty of boost (If anyone else can tell me what else is fancy about the engine, PLEASE tell me. YUNIS?)

And the result is exactly what youd expect, about 600bhp and great power and responce above 4000-4500rpm all way to the limiter, and nothing much below, exactly as it shows in the video.
Thats same as thousands of engines around, and its beyond me how people can rave about the engine itself so much.

The reason the cars so good is its light (for an R34GTR), great suspension and brakes, a nice responsive engine suited to twisty short tracks like Tskuba etc, and has hugely lower geared diffs than standard so revs like **** in every gear as you see in the vid (Put a Clio 16V box in a 5 GT Turbo, or a Diesel box in an Escort RS Turbo for two very noticable examples of the difference much longer gearing gives to how the car seems to behave and rev, ie it kills it, so can see what happens when going opposite direction), at the expence of high speed (something it dont need and cant achive on the track)

About what they say, its a bloody entertainment video rather than a educational documentary! You really belive that cars faster than a GT500 racer FFS?!
Or that it lifted the front wheels under acceleration?!
Or that a pro race driver was scared of a 600bhp relativley heavy car?!

Its like the tens of thousands of people that buy junk off Ebay cause of what the seller tells them, or how most UK companies make money actually, people just belive anything they told as gospel.

Forget about the hype. Turn your brain and look at the facts and its all obvious.

*Yunis---*
Why do you think i hate it?! Ive used the word awesome and superb every bloody time i talk about the car if you even read what i say you cretin.
But whats so flash isnt what most people seem to think is, and its beyond me how people can be so stupid and gullible.

And my GTR? Got better things to do than spend more than a tiny fraction my life and money on it. Personally I couldnt give a toss about it. Tho plenty happens with it, I just dont talk about it on here due to most users being like yourself. But its off being resprayed at mo if you must know as I dont like grey. 
And?


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## Miness (Aug 24, 2005)

u tell em steve pmsl


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Sorry - totally off topic.


SteveN,

I am not your biggest fan mate, but I am interested in what is happening with your car. You, Pikey and a few others provide some insight into what it takes for a bloke in a shed to build/modify a GT-R. I have worked on previous cars that I have owned but never on the GT-Rs. I would rather have a professional do it - it is a 180+mph car after all.

We were all gutted when Jeff couldn't take his car on the Isle of Man trip earlier this year. After being apprised of each step in the build etc we were looking forward to seeing it on the road.



SteveN said:


> Personally I couldnt give a toss about it


Don't dismiss it that easily. If you were that uninterested, you would have got rid. Sure, some people want to see it finished because of a bit of schadenfreude, if it doesn't turn out as good as you claim. Others want to see a finished car that is as good as you claim.

Keep us informed.


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## Pikey (Feb 19, 2004)

moleman said:


> We were all gutted when Jeff couldn't take his car on the Isle of Man trip earlier this year.


No - you were all gutted when I made it to the docks a mere 5 minutes behind you


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

As good as i claim? Far as i remember ive never claimed anything specific from it 
And I have nearly got rid a few times due to lack of interest, but interest came back every time due to various factors.

But pathetic bitchyness, rumour, and BS is why ive kept my cars progress well away from here, im not into this Skyline "scene" at all im afraid.


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## wez1218 (Oct 28, 2004)

*Hi*

First post, 



> About the car, it IS an awesome car, superbly fast, but the ENGINE itself is nothing flashy at all.
> The basis is really just 2530s, mild duration cams, and plenty of boost (If anyone else can tell me what else is fancy about the engine, PLEASE tell me. YUNIS?)


borrowed from http://www.prospec-ms.co.uk/  



> Mine's Complete Engine Stage 1 / Stage 2
> As a result of huge amount of test on the track with renowned Mine's BNR34 Demo-car, Mine's finally disclosed their secret as Complete Engine.
> Stage 1 engine is capable around 480ps with N1 turbos or equiverent, and Stage 2 engine is capble around 600ps with HKS GT2530 turbos or equivarent.
> This complete engine includes forged pistons with cooling channel, forger h-shaped conn-rods, lightweight and balanced crankshaft, Mine's camshafts and Mine's polishing and modifying work on block and cylinder head, reinforced studs, cam gears, valve seats, valve guides etc.
> ...


I always thought this is similar to the engine they use in their 'infamous' demo car, also the magazine j-tuner has an article on the car and they say it is heavily modified despite the fact it looks fairly standard (use of stock air boxes, fuel rail etc).

cheers

wez

p.s happy christmas:smokin:


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

SteveN said:


> Far as i remember ive never claimed anything specific from it


No, you haven't. But you can't deny that you have bigged it up.  



SteveN said:


> pathetic bitchyness, rumour, and BS


Can understand that. But sod 'em. I think most people are interested in a general way regardless of the person behind it.

I, for one, wouldn't mind knowing what the state of play was.




Pikey said:


> No - you were all gutted when I made it to the docks a mere 5 minutes behind you


Jeff, as I recall, you beat some of us! lol


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

moleman said:


> I, for one, wouldn't mind knowing what the state of play was.



Im another one, been following whats been done or what we have been told anyway. Like the intercooler etc. I am very intersted and looking forward to seeing the finished car, I will be genuinely pleased for you if it turns out well, however much you say you get bored with it (bound to lose motivation in a long project like that) you are going to be pretty chuffed when its finished I should think.
Also as I said I am really quite happy to hand over thousands to an expert to do it for me but people who do it all themselves get my admiration and interest.


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

wez1218 said:


> First post,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is the same engine the spec 2 which is good for 600 bhp...


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

UNDERDOG said:


> The trend with Skylines in Japan and UK (Not so much in Aus etc etc) is to leave the compression as it is and slag off anyone who lowers it.
> 
> *Then claim lowering it ruins drivability.*
> they need to go and read
> ...


Have some carefully matched cams and carfully reporfile portsremoving any bad angles and flow matching the throttle bodie and match the inlets ... aoverall not only will it improve off boost torque but, help the engine breath better as well as help reduce the dynamic CR 

Look at what nic kiesa has done with his engine.. IMO this guy knows what he is doing... reading his engine rebuild story you can learn a lot...


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

There WAY more to it than just wanging down the compression.

Squish area plays a big part.


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## UNDERDOG (Aug 29, 2004)

*Listen*



SteveN said:


> Angry?! Where that come from!?  Seriously, im not mate, jus trying to explain.
> 
> About twins versus single, trust me when I say its not like you think it is.
> When all things are equal, the difference between a single and a twin of equal capability is as good as nothing.
> ...


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

You are certainly making your point there!!


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## -C- (Oct 16, 2003)

Is this another Yunis/GTR Zilla Mines loving alter ego?  

I'd love to see some genuine tests - identical engine specs, identical maps, one running a 'fairly' big single & one running a similar spec'd pair of twins...

I'd hazard a guess that there would be bugger all in it


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

Underdog, You've completely missed the plot when talking about single or twin turbo installations. 

Lets just have a look into what your saying, small ar's will always give better responce and large ar's will give top end power. 
No argument against that, but what you miss out on is, on a twin turbo setup, you have a half the flow going to a smaller turbo. As the ar is relative to flow, the twin turbo's smaller ar number will in fact look big if fitted to a half sized engine capacity. If you know anything about AR ratio's you will understand that you need bigger AR numbers for more flow, so of course a single will have bigger numbers, but does not mean it falls foul of big AR = big lag.
You also fail to see that Turbo efficiency has some bearing on impellor clearance, and a small turbo needs a significantly larger percentage of float than does a large turbo, by flow size/wheel size. This is due to the fact that you need an amount of float to accept heat expansion, and just gaurenteed clearance. The effect, is that a small turbo is never as efficient as a larger one. 

It's true to say that a smaller turbo has less inertia, and is capable of accelerating faster, thus reducing lag. However, we need to take into account that the smaller Turbo has less power available to spin in up (half the airflow), and has bigger bearing losses as a percentage. It also generally needs to reach a higher RPM than a larger Turbo before boost is made. For example a small turbo (RB26) would have a rev range upto 140K, whereas a single for the same power would run at about 110-20K. The small turbo would need to gain more revs in order to produce the same effect, so although accelerates faster, has further to go.

On a 6 cylinder RB engine, to fit twins, almost all headers are unequal length types, which means at certain rpm's, you get two power pulses entering the turbo at the same time, this is not as efficient as a single with equal length headers and constent ex pulses. I won't even go into the twin turbo surge issues that can totally screw up the responce.

Smaller Twins also tend to have integral W/Gates, which are not as efficient as a remote WG'ed larger single. 

I'm not saying Singles are better than twins, or vicky verky, just saying it's not as simple as you make out.


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

All 2&4 Motoring DVDs are entertainment. Tsuchiya, Orido and the rest are great drivers, but on DVDs they are entertainers. It'd be pretty boring if they just drove around and set lap times without saying anything.
There is no doubt the Mines car is great - but it's not simply because of the engine - the rest of their setup expertise plays a big part.

GT500 cars may have 500hp but their torque curve is in outer space compared to road cars.
I suggest you go and find the BMI video which has GT500 vs street cars @ Tsukuba in it if you honestly believe that the Mines car is quicker than a GT500 car.
The Mines car is a great car, but as SteveN said, in the video you're talking about the excellent acceleration comes from the lowered diff ratios not an amazinng engine.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

Bean said:


> All 2&4 Motoring DVDs are entertainment. Tsuchiya, Orido and the rest are great drivers, but on DVDs they are entertainers. It'd be pretty boring if they just drove around and set lap times without saying anything.
> .



Its clear they are playing to the cameras, as you say ita an entertainment video made for sales and profit, they are feeding into the Skyline myth as an all conquering machine and some of their words are pretty corny - great video tho


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

liquidculture said:


> You are certainly making your point there!!


No he's not. As per usual everyone believes stuff with no factual content.

Underdog (Yunis  )      
Youve TOTALLY missed the point about turbos.



NISFAN said:


> Underdog, You've completely missed the plot when talking about single or twin turbo installations.
> 
> Lets just have a look into what your saying, small ar's will always give better responce and large ar's will give top end power.
> No argument against that, but what you miss out on is, on a twin turbo setup, you have a half the flow going to a smaller turbo


Saves me saying the same thing. Twin means TWO  They get half the exhaust flow a single would.



-C- said:


> Is this another Yunis/GTR Zilla Mines loving alter ego?
> 
> I'd love to see some genuine tests - identical engine specs, identical maps, one running a 'fairly' big single & one running a similar spec'd pair of twins...
> 
> I'd hazard a guess that there would be bugger all in it


Going by the fact this guys "facts" are just as random and bizzare as Yunis's, id say good call.
Even same sort of comments and mannerisms.

Also that test, id say thered seriously be soo little in it itd be unbelivable.



UNDERDOG said:


> but one reason us uk guys are lagging (pardon the Pun) ha ha behind the Yanks and the Japs is becuase we are too opinionated we need to factually based when we talk.


No.
Reason is at mo your average Skyline owner in the UK is more than happy with the performance, reliability, and price, of the tuning.
So why change? If the customers know no better and believe this is best it can be, why would the tuners make like difficult for themselfs, they a business not a charity.
Things only change when they get shown otherwise.
And this is the most blinkered scene ive ever seen, this post is good proof, where people cant see the facts right in front of their own eyes.
So cant see it changing in a hurry.



UNDERDOG said:


> I Think your Gonna need Anti-Lag steveN ...What you Guys reckon ?


For what? Do you know my spec anyhow? Curious mention of AntiLag there too, _Yunis_...



UNDERDOG said:


> sure is ..what do you guys reckon
> who wants to see how steveN's car resoonds from 3000 rpm on full throttle
> does anyone know if you can get a silencer for Anti-Lag


Oooh, and again. Funny that.
Resonds from 3k? I dunno, but ill put money its better than the Mines car sub 4k rpm bearing in mind its not a huge turbo, got a mid-size exhaust housing, and got nigh on 500cc more spooling it up...
You seem to have forgot about gearing? Low gearing changes things hugely. Its tempting to use the Mines style low low diffs actually.



UNDERDOG said:


> these guys are smart and fact based and pro racing drivers
> so yes i do take ther word .
> they know what they are talking about.
> thats the whole point is it not of BMI


No its not, you gullible fool. Its pro people, but its entertainment.



Bean said:


> All 2&4 Motoring DVDs are entertainment. Tsuchiya, Orido and the rest are great drivers, but on DVDs they are entertainers. It'd be pretty boring if they just drove around and set lap times without saying anything.
> There is no doubt the Mines car is great - but it's not simply because of the engine - the rest of their setup expertise plays a big part.
> 
> GT500 cars may have 500hp but their torque curve is in outer space compared to road cars.
> ...


EXACTLY. Thanyou 
GT500 cars are INCREDIBLY light for their size too.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

SteveN said:


> No he's not. As per usual everyone believes stuff with no factual content.
> 
> .



I was being sarcastic, dont believe everything you read


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Hahaa 

Tho i dont believe you


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

lol your refering to me, but your barking up the wrong tree as usual.. 

Underdog has nothing to do with me.. ask the moderators to check ip's read all posts from him and when he raced two lambos I didnt even own a GTR then.... 

You the fool


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Not hard to fake IPs and talk BS is it.

Suprised you have had nothing to add to all this though, as you n him share identical views and beliefs it seems...


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

lol get over it dude... theres not only me in this world who has admiration of the Mines R34


What is there to add? Its simply an all round great car thats fast and very very responsive.. yes i know the low gearing and the carbon prop helps it a lot. 

The engine is still a very good peice of machinery the attention to detail, finely balancing the unit, Mines special ported head for improved torque... 

so its not got a big single, or wild cams, etc.. who cares, unless you want a drag racer this spec will destroy more higher powered cars for drivability and RESPONCE!!


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Nothing wrong with admiring it, but for the right reasons.

You saying all that like i go on about wild cams and big singles are good?
Im the one constantly slagging off specs like that.

You think they do much to the head? I dont, at most they remove casting marks etc without enlarging the ports, hardly rocket science.
And balancing the engine wont do owt youd notice on a RB26.

Its a fantastic car, but the vid/engine/responce is hyped up to high heaven, as ive always said.

I go on about it, but thats purely cause if I dont explain the car properly everyone raves about it like its out of this world and such a flashy spec.
Get a std R32GTR, put it on 2530s, exhaust, filters, mild cams, suitable fueling, well mapped powerFC, 4.8 diffs, and strip it right out, and lo and behold, same mega revving feeling you see in the Mines vids.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

SteveN said:


> Tho i dont believe you


You'd be fool if you did


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## UNDERDOG (Aug 29, 2004)

-C- said:


> Is this another Yunis/GTR Zilla Mines loving alter ego?
> 
> I'd love to see some genuine tests - identical engine specs, identical maps, one running a 'fairly' big single & one running a similar spec'd pair of twins...
> 
> I'd hazard a guess that there would be bugger all in it


as to underline the point 

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?t=47054

NISFAN

i get your point about flow but as the above thread proves 
that may not be the case

and the post was orignally about Response and how SteveN thinks he can get good response from his T88 single turbo setup 

damm you have allot of good points 

*It's true to say that a smaller turbo has less inertia, and is capable of accelerating faster, thus reducing lag. However, we need to take into account that the smaller Turbo has less power available to spin in up (half the airflow), and has bigger bearing losses as a percentage. It also generally needs to reach a higher RPM than a larger Turbo before boost is made. For example a small turbo (RB26) would have a rev range upto 140K, whereas a single for the same power would run at about 110-20K. The small turbo would need to gain more revs in order to produce the same effect, so although accelerates faster, has further to go.*

yea but as you say the smaller turbo needs more revs but it revs quicker .
the turbos used on the car in question are mathed to the each 3 cylinder pairs flow this is why it responds so well ..the turbos are mathced to the flow characteristics OF the engine .

*On a 6 cylinder RB engine, to fit twins, almost all headers are unequal length types, which means at certain rpm's, you get two power pulses entering the turbo at the same time, this is not as efficient as a single with equal length headers and constent ex pulses. I won't even go into the twin turbo surge issues that can totally screw up the responce.*

i was wondering how to make a twin turbo ram horn type mani work for the set up and this did com into my mind ..but as im sure you know there is a solution to this  and the solution would also solve the surge issue .=and allow external wastegates

Bean

ok get your point to be honest i did not believe it power to weight and all 
just dident want to say so to steveN

where can i see these videos you got a link ??

yea torque is the most important thing for a track car .and i agree the mines car is a package but allot of emphasis was on how responsive the motor was 

i think you need to see more bmi they are never so outspoken 

i believe i was being factuall and you are yet to backup what you say with and independent evidence 

i am not Yunis ???? who is this guy ???


p.s i am aware of the other mods the car has


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## -C- (Oct 16, 2003)

UNDERDOG said:


> as to underline the point
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?t=47054
> 
> ...


What relevance does that have? It shows that there is a mix of huge singles & big twin drag cars that are very fast? You talk about wanting response & then you are comparing it to a car with twin 3540's on it  

Again, provide me with 2 dyno graphs - one with a single & everything else the same, and one with twins, identical size. There will sweet FA difference 



> i was wondering how to make a twin turbo ram horn type mani work for the set up and this did com into my mind ..but as im sure you know there is a solution to this and the solution would also solve the surge issue .=and allow external wastegates


Why would you need external wastegates on a 2 turbo's both capable of circa 350bhp each on a twin set up? (assuming you are atill after your 700bhp goal).


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

UNDERDOG said:


> the post was orignally about Response and how SteveN thinks he can get good response from his T88 single turbo setup


What on earth are you on about?  

T88? Where? All I ever do is slag off T88s! Ive not got one and wouldnt dream of using one.



UNDERDOG said:


> i am not Yunis ???? who is this guy ???


A guy on here with a scarily close resembelence to yourself.

GTR-Zilla who used to use the username Yunis until he realised everyone was fed up with the rubbish he talked similar to this thread, so he slyly re-registered as GTR-Zilla, but didnt take long to work out who it was.

And now he seems to be using a second fake username to bang on about the stuff that made people not like him the first time round.
Allegedly


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

SteveN said:


> What on earth are you on about?
> 
> T88? Where? All I ever do is slag off T88s! Ive not got one and wouldnt dream of using one.
> 
> ...




Yes I changed my name back in may....big deal... If I wanted to stay annoymous, I`d have not posted the same question here under the new name and I did with the other name on SOC... 

But if you think Im the UNDERDOG thats fantastic!! :smokin:


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## Haribo (Oct 15, 2004)

either way underdog's a ******.

pics iv seen ov steve's engine are the bomb, very impressive, and lots of new and custom stuff that im sure loads of people are gonna be asking about.


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## GTR-Zilla (May 17, 2005)

Do I give a stuff? I couldnt care less...


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

The funny this is you seem to think the mines R34 is ultra responive.
I have never driven a skyline GTR yet I would use that comment with, even standard ones.


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