# R35 - Engine Failure in Europe - Warranty Denied



## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Given that we now have the R35 chit-chat merged and that the relevant thread title is not that descriptive I wanted to highlight everyones attention to this thread:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/122795-anybody-having-engine-problems-yet-has-heard.html

Basically a 2 month-old Euro GTR has blown it's engine and has had the warranty denied, due to a Cobb tune.

Whilst from the description of the problem it seems unlikely that the tuning caused this, it is never-the-less very important that anyone considering tuning their GTR knows that Nissan Europe will deny your warranty and that engine failures are happening. This is now the third known engine failure (the thread relates the story of a Swiss car and German Press car that suffered similar fates).

What I'd love to see is someone offer a tune that included warranty. It is done on Porsches by a number of tuners and it was the prime reason I went to Ruf for mine, as they offered a 2 year warranty.


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

I think it's pretty true to say If it had been a Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or any other car, the manufacturer would have rejected a warranty claim. The Nissan warranty is about as clear as you can get on this subject. I reckon different wheels and a y pipe are about all you can get away with unless Nissan bring out an "approved" upgrade package.


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

I don't see how this is a surprise at all. I can't imagine any manufacturer behaving differently.

As for the engine, although it doesn't inspire confidence I suppose it's just one of those things. Hopefully it's a material/manufacturing problem rather than a design issue. Happens to other new cars too (remember the E46 M3?), and it makes a change from hearing about the gearbox.

I can't think of any tuner currently in the market who would offer a warranty. The majority of tuning will be done in the US in any case.

Philip


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

I'm not surprised they denied the warranty. It's more to make people aware that engine failures are happening and it's an owner on here.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Philip said:


> I can't think of any tuner currently in the market who would offer a warranty.


Most German Porsche tuners offer a warranty for the complete drivetrain. I had a 2 year engine/drivetrain warranty from Ruf on my 630bhp conversion. I know of many others who offer similar, even on chip-tuning.

If engine/gearbox failures are rare, then the cost of a warranty is small. I'd pay an extra £1k for a Cobb Tune if it came with a warranty for engine/gearbox. If only 1 in 20 or so failed or less, the warranty would pay for itself from the tuner/re-seller!


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

When Middlehursts upgraded the R33's and R34's there was never a warranty issue!
Perhaps they'll be rolling out a similar offer with the R35?


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

The warranty would have never been needed,if they would just have their engine working without a problem.....but the engine has a failure from a faulty part in the oilsystem....like on many GTR´s in europe.....


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

Guy said:


> Most German Porsche tuners offer a warranty for the complete drivetrain. I had a 2 year engine/drivetrain warranty from Ruf on my 630bhp conversion. I know of many others who offer similar, even on chip-tuning.


Yes, but I can't see any of the current GT-R tuners doing it, especially with an unlocked AccessPort.

Philip


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Philip said:


> Yes, but I can't see any of the current GT-R tuners doing it, especially with an unlocked AccessPort.
> 
> Philip


You can just give a warranty on things you trust......

Im a Lancer Evo Tuner,every Evo which i do has a 1 year warranty of me,why,because i trust my products(and know Mitsubishi has a good quality...),never had any problems,even on very hard pushed cars that do a lot of trackdays.....:chuckle:


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Nismo do a rented ECU upgrade with warranty.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

paul__k said:


> Nismo do a rented ECU upgrade with warranty.


In Japan only. They also make no claims for power levels.


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## GBH (Aug 8, 2008)

I was recently told by Middlehursts that Nissan had been kincking off and having the Y pipe changed viod the warrenty, only paint work and glass would be covered after fittting.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Differant on the 33 and 34 as there were only about 80 of em (not really a UK car apart from them).Anyway I doubt Nissan will cover y- pipe either as you need a re map really after fitting ,you cant go dicking around with a brand new 55 k car and expect Nissan to take it up the ass when it goes wrong .Everyone knows on warranty's that any car firm will try any excuse to get out of paying up on expensive bills ,same as insurance companies .


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## gtr R33 lee (Nov 11, 2004)

GBH said:


> I was recently told by Middlehursts that Nissan had been kincking off and having the Y pipe changed viod the warrenty, only paint work and glass would be covered after fittting.


Why does this tell me nissan dont have much confidence in the R35?

Next it wil be you cant fart in your R35 without voiding the warranty!


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

+1 Exactly what stealth said


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## walnuts (Mar 29, 2007)

Guy said:


> Given that we now have the R35 chit-chat merged and that the relevant thread title is not that descriptive I wanted to highlight everyones attention to this thread:
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/122795-anybody-having-engine-problems-yet-has-heard.html


Or you could simply have asked a mod to change the title. :GrowUp:


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## GBH (Aug 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted by Guy
> Given that we now have the R35 chit-chat merged and that the relevant thread title is not that descriptive I wanted to highlight everyones attention to this thread:





> Or you could simply have asked a mod to change the title.


In all honesty i hadnt seen the thread till it was reposted, and he probably didnt know you can ask to have it retitled, i certainly didnt.......


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fuzzy Dunlop said:


> Or you could simply have asked a mod to change the title. :GrowUp:


Or you could simply ignore the thread, or have a got at the mods for merging the areas :blahblah: :blahblah:


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

GBH said:


> I was recently told by Middlehursts that Nissan had been kincking off and having the Y pipe changed viod the warrenty, only paint work and glass would be covered after fittting.


Middlehurst and the other HPC's (and maybe a bit of help from GTROC) should get hold of Nissan and agree that a y pipe can be fitted without fear of warranty troubles. Most are fitted to sort out the lack of noise, not for power. The power increase is very marginal anyway. Why wait till something goes wrong. We need our HPC's to be a bit more proactive and stop all this nonsense.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Fuzzy Dunlop said:


> Or you could simply have asked a mod to change the title. :GrowUp:


It's not my thread!


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

I hope Nissan sort this out or I will be selling the R35 and buying an R34 - this way I will warrant my car with my cheque book.

Kp


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I spoke to Nissan Europe about this yesterday. They are investigating the issue and associated events and are in discussions with the NHPC and Nissan Germany to make sure this is investigated before responding


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Fuggles said:


> I spoke to Nissan Europe about this yesterday. They are investigating the issue and associated events and are in discussions with the NHPC and Nissan Germany to make sure this is investigated before responding


John,thats really the first good news i hear about this.........:thumbsup:

If there is a problem(like i think),then the best Nissan can do is stand to it and say,yes,we got a problem,we know from it and we will do all that is possible to solve it......


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I spoke to Nissan Europe about this yesterday. They are investigating the issue and associated events and are in discussions with the NHPC and Nissan Germany to make sure this is investigated before responding


Great work!!!


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

GBH said:


> I was recently told by Middlehursts that Nissan had been kincking off and having the Y pipe changed viod the warrenty, only paint work and glass would be covered after fittting.


:chuckle: Funniest thing I've read in ages! 

So fitting a Y-pipe will invalidate the warranty on the AC and stereo will it? What about the central locking and steering? An exhaust mod is bound to blow those up! :runaway:


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## Martin Donnon (Dec 14, 2008)

I have posted a probable cause here -
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/122795-anybody-having-engine-problems-yet-has-heard-6.html#post1160111


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## peterpeter (Feb 24, 2008)

What concerns me is that now MH are saying a y pipe will invalidate the warranty.
I thought they were the ones saying not to worry!!!

I am also concerned about the way 3 cars out of perhaps 1-2000 have had engine trouble (one a press car, one which was tuned and one seemingly not,) and suddenly there is an "engine problem."
What a load of tosh. Cmon guys this is not the daily mail. Quite a few owners have been tracking their cars already and we are not seeing the car falling apart.
We are also not seeing owners desert the brand in countries where the car has been on sale already. for over a year
again it would be nice to see Nissan clarify things as they kind of did before.
however its not rocket science that if you start tuning your car, you will lose your warranty.
Also people are saying that the tuning could not have caused the engine problem...
How exactly can anyone be sure of that? That is virtually impossible to tell.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

peterpeter said:


> I am also concerned about the way 3 cars out of perhaps 1-2000 have had engine trouble (one a press car, one which was tuned and one seemingly not,) and suddenly there is an "engine problem."


Its a lot more then just 3 cars....all with the same failure,nearly all of them have been stock :chuckle:


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

peterpeter said:


> What concerns me is that now MH are saying a y pipe will invalidate the warranty.
> I thought they were the ones saying not to worry!!!


Most other dealers have always said Y-pipe invalidates warranty, as thats what's written in the manual.

Of course if MH are offering to warranty it themselves thats a different story. I suspect they had just planned to replace the stock pipe before making any claims in the event of problems.


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

It's clearly a situation where some common sense can be applied.

Philip


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## Hazardous (Nov 30, 2007)

EvolutionVI said:


> Its a lot more then just 3 cars....all with the same failure,nearly all of them have been stock :chuckle:


Out of interest, how many are you aware of Alex? Are there lots?


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

I've got nothing to add but my best wishes, because one day it might be any of us up against it, oh and maybe some black humour....(i realise this will be a repost - but still funny)


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

exactly

in theory failures should be so rare that they can be investigated fully and decided upon on a car by car basis

trouble starts when you get lots of cars going wrong they will operate a much more kneejerk response.



mook

Anyone wanna swap thier unreliable 35 for my solid as a rock 33?


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

Guy said:


> Most German Porsche tuners offer a warranty for the complete drivetrain. I had a 2 year engine/drivetrain warranty from Ruf on my 630bhp conversion. I know of many others who offer similar, even on chip-tuning.


Guy, the problem with a tune up for the GTR is that there is no prestige car tuning company that tunes the GTR, because there are:
1) not many GTRs on the road
2) there haven't been any GTRs before two month ago
3) euhhh ahhhh buuuuhhh a japanese car !!!!

RUF is an excellent company, a friend of mine had his Porsche also tuned over there, but you know that the warranty is payed in the heavy price as well. . .with RUF we are not talking Cob tuning in my mates garage, but each engine is send to hell and back for reliability testing, then RUF also feels better on the warranty matter.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Guy said:


> Most other dealers have always said Y-pipe invalidates warranty, as thats what's written in the manual.
> 
> Of course if MH are offering to warranty it themselves thats a different story. I suspect they had just planned to replace the stock pipe before making any claims in the event of problems.



Of course places like Middlehurst will sell and a fit y- pipe ,they are not going to fix the car for free if the gearbox or engine lets go .Personly I think it's up to everyone to do what he like to his / her car ,but if you have a cobb and or y- pipe fitted the chances are it will have no bearing on a faliure but warranty wise you are buggerd ,and rightly so .


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## peterpeter (Feb 24, 2008)

How many and who? 
So far not a single Uk car has had this problem
and I've not read anything on any other forum

US owners have had transmission issues 
and I understand that these are now v rare 
after the new software but I've read nothing about 
an epidemic of engine problems over there or japan too

I'm not saying you are wrong but considering the number of cars 
sold it would be good to get some facts before calling this a major problem


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

I don't think it's a major issue at all.

However it is worth highlighting given that there are people including HPCs selling modifications and saying 'it does not ffect warranty' when it is clearly not true. The same applies to those who say there have been no engine failures.

Owners can still choose to modify if they wish, but at least they have a better understanding of the risk. Having been through several engines in prior GTRs the warranty was a key appeal to me and that's why my car will stay standard.


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## Wildrover (Dec 16, 2008)

Guy said:


> I don't think it's a major issue at all.
> 
> However it is worth highlighting given that there are people including HPCs selling modifications and saying 'it does not ffect warranty' when it is clearly not true. The same applies to those who say there have been no engine failures.
> 
> Owners can still choose to modify if they wish, but at least they have a better understanding of the risk. Having been through several engines in prior GTRs the warranty was a key appeal to me and that's why my car will stay standard.


I agree - 485bhp is enough for me and the cosmetic mods aren't my cup of tea.

Keep it standard and enjoy the peace of mind.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

peterpeter said:


> US owners have had transmission issues
> and I understand that these are now v rare
> after the new software but I've read nothing about
> an epidemic of engine problems over there or japan too




When the car was released in the US there was a lot of them being dragged ,maybe there still is but with the knowledge about the gtr we have now ,maybe not so much .


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## peterpeter (Feb 24, 2008)

Guy said:


> I don't think it's a major issue at all.
> 
> However it is worth highlighting given that there are people including HPCs selling modifications and saying 'it does not ffect warranty' when it is clearly not true. The same applies to those who say there have been no engine failures.
> 
> Owners can still choose to modify if they wish, but at least they have a better understanding of the risk. Having been through several engines in prior GTRs the warranty was a key appeal to me and that's why my car will stay standard.


Me too for the time being
I'll take a serious look at the official nismo gear when it 
appears but for now I'm staying standard


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## Nicks_Pop (Jul 12, 2009)

Don't forget we're evidently talking about failures which are probably related to high speed (autobahn) blasts for semi-extended periods. Conditions that are not normally encountered in the US, Asia, or UK. It would appear that extended periods of high revs really tax the dry/wet sump construction of the R35 beyond its durability limits -- albeit limits which are however LEGAL.

Don't forget, according to forum member 'wink' the original R35 development engines were evidently putting out much more torque & power than the tamed down version Nissan chose to actually market. The block and most internals are evidently pretty robust.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

The problem seems to be related to the first +/- 300 eurocars....most of them are the democars of the dealers ...which 3 of them dealercars in germany are having the same problem + the Nissan presscar and a few more,only very few private owned cars in the first batch delivered to europe.

Nissan know about this problem,they are investigating these engine at the moment,they know the engines have had a problem(if not they would not have broken),they know it happend after highspeed driving(which we in germany can do every day as long as we want,compared to US/UK/JP where you normaly not go over lets say 100mph for a longer distance,only if you want to get sent to jail or have your licence away...)

They know from having a manufacturing defect,but still do nothing...i say it again,its not my fault that the engine broke.........


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

There are a few of us on here with very early cars


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Zed Ed said:


> There are a few of us on here with very early cars


Whats your number,i mean you had a early delivered car,or am i wrong:nervous:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Wildrover said:


> I agree - 485bhp is enough for me and the cosmetic mods aren't my cup of tea.
> 
> Keep it standard and enjoy the peace of mind.


lol, your obviously not a proper GTR owner 

mook


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## nas3damus (Mar 10, 2008)

EvolutionVI said:


> Whats your number,i mean you had a early delivered car,or am i wrong:nervous:



Do you know what VIN numbers are affected?

I will drive soon in Germany, so I will do the test if you can describe me how;

My car is not modded so if it will blew ..


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

nas3damus said:


> Do you know what VIN numbers are affected?
> 
> I will drive soon in Germany, so I will do the test if you can describe me how;
> 
> My car is not modded so if it will blew ..


around the first 300 i was told


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

EvolutionVI said:


> around the first 300 i was told


What range of VIN numbers would that be? [dreads looking under the bonnet...]


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## tomgtr (May 24, 2008)

EvolutionVI said:


> around the first 300 i was told


Then again, it's probably mostly the earlier cars which are really being spanked at the moment. Recent owners more likely to drive like driving miss Daisy.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

David.Yu said:


> What range of VIN numbers would that be? [dreads looking under the bonnet...]


the euro cars began with 0 id say...:wavey:


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

EvolutionVI said:


> the euro cars began with 0 id say...:wavey:


But nothing from Nissan to confirm this? I'm pretty sure they would have done something about this if it is a known manufacturing fault. I reckon its best to wait and see what comes from the report and Nissan Europe before panic sets in! There are plenty of blown up Porsches on their forum but no one is waving the white flag!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

waltong said:


> But nothing from Nissan to confirm this? I'm pretty sure they would have done something about this if it is a known manufacturing fault. I reckon its best to wait and see what comes from the report and Nissan Europe before panic sets in! There are plenty of blown up Porsches on their forum but no one is waving the white flag!


may be they have taken a leaf out of TVR's book and are using a bit of owner aided development:chuckle:

I'll check my VIN


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

> But nothing from Nissan to confirm this? I'm pretty sure they would have done something about this if it is a known manufacturing fault


350Z owners will remember the debacle over some 06 engines drinking oil and the fact that US fuel hose recalls were not applied in the UK...


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

waltong said:


> But nothing from Nissan to confirm this? I'm pretty sure they would have done something about this if it is a known manufacturing fault. I reckon its best to wait and see what comes from the report and Nissan Europe before panic sets in! There are plenty of blown up Porsches on their forum but no one is waving the white flag!


Im saying nothing more about the reason till the engine is in pieces....we will find the failed part and maybe then we know if it could be true that there is more engines that could break.......till now its just a guess because of the infos i have about other cars having these problems mostly in germany and the number a friend of me heard from a Nissan Technican at the ring on a Nissan Event......


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## obzi (Feb 19, 2008)

If Nissan just brought out an official Y-pipe allowing the warranty to stay in place the vast majority of owners would be happy enough.


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

obzi said:


> If Nissan just brought out an official Y-pipe allowing the warranty to stay in place the vast majority of owners would be happy enough.


Maybe one (or more) of the Y pipe manufacturers should talk to Nissan GB and see if they can agree a deal. I'm sure if Nissan were going to get a cut on the deal to cover the "additional risk" on the warranty everyone would be happy. Lets be honest, the y pipe is hardly a performance mod. Come on GTC, how about sweet talking Nissan?


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

waltong said:


> Maybe one (or more) of the Y pipe manufacturers should talk to Nissan GB and see if they can agree a deal. I'm sure if Nissan were going to get a cut on the deal to cover the "additional risk" on the warranty everyone would be happy. Lets be honest, the y pipe is hardly a performance mod. Come on GTC, how about sweet talking Nissan?


Yes +1


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Quick Question.

Who is having a Y-Pipe fitted by their HPC and been told that it voids their warranty? And specifically on what part of the car does it void the warranty?


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

misters3 said:


> Quick Question.
> 
> Who is having a Y-Pipe fitted by their HPC and been told that it voids their warranty? And specifically on what part of the car does it void the warranty?


My HPC wont fit one. Says its not a Nissan part and I'll have to arrange to have it done. They also reminded me that the Nissan booklet clearly says mods will affect the warranty. I'm told the pipe does boost BHP, albeit minimal. Id just be happier if Nissan would agree to this mod as it's probably the most common one we would all do.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

waltong said:


> My HPC wont fit one. Says its not a Nissan part and I'll have to arrange to have it done. They also reminded me that the Nissan booklet clearly says mods will affect the warranty. I'm told the pipe does boost BHP, albeit minimal. Id just be happier if Nissan would agree to this mod as it's probably the most common one we would all do.


That's the key point (as with Evo6), because it's really down to your HPC (not Nissan) to deal with your claim. In any warranty claim, your first point of contact is with your HPC/dealer, not Nissan themselves, so it's really down to the attitude of your HPC.

Will your HPC fit a Zele light kit? Really no difference, as it could cause problems with the electrics of the car.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

misters3 said:


> Quick Question.
> 
> Who is having a Y-Pipe fitted by their HPC and been told that it voids their warranty? And specifically on what part of the car does it void the warranty?


Motorline stated to me very clearly when I asked that as per the warranty booklet, the fitment of any engine/exhaust modification will void the entire engine warranty. They are perfectly within their rights to do this.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

misters3 said:


> That's the key point (as with Evo6), because it's really down to your HPC (not Nissan) to deal with your claim. In any warranty claim, your first point of contact is with your HPC/dealer, not Nissan themselves, so it's really down to the attitude of your HPC.
> 
> Will your HPC fit a Zele light kit? Really no difference, as it could cause problems with the electrics of the car.


The HPC does not pay for the claim ie the parts, Nissan GB does. If your engine blows, the engine will be examined by Nissan GB and likely the ecu will be fully downloaded and analysed by GB or even Japan (as has happened in many cases).

If Nissan GB or Japan say 'NO', do you really believe that the dealer will pay from their own pockets, when you've signed a document saying you acknowledge that mods void the warranty........?

For all those people who believe what they are told by dealers about any mod not affecting the warranty, ask the dealer to put it in writing that they will warranty the engine/drivetrain. I bet you no-one ever gets such a letter. Talk is cheap, not provable in court, and evaporates surprisingly quickly when money is involved.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Guy said:


> The HPC does not pay for the claim ie the parts, Nissan GB does. If your engine blows, the engine will be examined by Nissan GB and likely the ecu will be fully downloaded and analysed by GB or even Japan (as has happened in many cases).
> 
> If Nissan GB or Japan say 'NO', do you really believe that the dealer will pay from their own pockets, when you've signed a document saying you acknowledge that mods void the warranty........?
> 
> *For all those people who believe what they are told by dealers about any mod not affecting the warranty, ask the dealer to put it in writing that they will warranty the engine/drivetrain.* I bet you no-one ever gets such a letter. Talk is cheap, not provable in court, and evaporates surprisingly quickly when money is involved.


Done  (well email)


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

can't imagine dealers paying out big goodwill claims at the moment :nervous:


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

misters3 said:


> Done  (well email)


Your HPC has confirmed y pipe is ok with Nissan?? Let there be light!


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

waltong said:


> Your HPC has confirmed y pipe is ok with Nissan?? Let there be light!


No - it's okay with them. Which is what matters to me.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

misters3 said:


> No - it's okay with them. Which is what matters to me.


Did they confirm in writing that it does not affect warranty and therefore that if Nissan denied a claim that they would pay? If so that is excellent. 

Which dealer is it, as on that basis I'd love to buy a Y-pipe from them, as would many others on here I would imagine.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Guy said:


> Did they confirm in writing that it does not affect warranty and therefore that if Nissan denied a claim that they would pay? If so that is excellent.


No. I have an email from the owner of my HPC (Nobles) in which we were discussing mods, etc. But it's enough for me. Probably not for others. Same way as some people are happy to do the COBB thing - I'm not. I guess it depends how risk averse you are. 




Guy said:


> Which dealer is it, as on that basis I'd love to buy a Y-pipe from them, as would many others on here I would imagine.


I'd imagine it's more to do with the fact i'm buying my car from them than a £400 part. In their shoes, i wouldn't be interested in selling people Y-Pipes for the added risk.
To be honest i'm not that fussed about fitting the Y-Pipe and could take it or leave it - i haven't decided yet.
If your HPC won't offer any assurances or your looking for Nissan to warranty it, i'd leave it. It's still an awesome sounding car with the stock Y-pipe in my opinion.


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

Getting Nissan to agree the warranty is only half the problem. Then you have to convince your Insurer it's only a little mod! I wonder how many Y pipes and Cobb AP's are being used without a word to the people that really will make your life hell if they find out! God I'm a miserable *hit! It's only because my Sept delivery is now November! :bawling:


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

waltong said:


> Getting Nissan to agree the warranty is only half the problem. Then you have to convince your Insurer it's only a little mod! I wonder how many Y pipes and Cobb AP's are being used without a word to the people that really will make your life hell if they find out! God I'm a miserable *hit! It's only because my Sept delivery is now November! :bawling:


Try the insurance comparison sites. The bhp increase and exhaust mods don't make that much of a diff to quotes. Maybe 10% at most IIRC.


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