# Doesn't seem that much demand foy MY'11s???



## AlanN (Dec 10, 2007)

Took my 2010 in to HPC Motorline Tunbridge Wells yesterday.
All without pain, very good service.

However, I thought the MY 2011's were in short supply and being snapped up?

They have two, yes TWO brand new ones with no buyers.
One black, one blue, both brand new, both £69,950.

Thought they were like rocking horse shit?
opcorn:


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

No great surprise, the novelty factor is over for the GTR, it's been around for 2 years now and at £70k they've priced themselves out of the market for all but the most ardent of GTR enthusiasts.

Sales figures will be really low after the first couple of months of 'selling to existing GTR owners' finishes.


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## PaulMcA (Feb 17, 2010)

I have heard of one guy today that has his 2011 White GTR (with Recaros) delivered to the dealer and he isn't going to take it. So another one sitting at a dealer. WMLG Slough seem to have 3 or more sitting around, not sure if they are sold or not.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

PaulMcA said:


> I have heard of one guy today that has his 2011 White GTR (with Recaros) delivered to the dealer and he isn't going to take it. So another one sitting at a dealer. WMLG Slough seem to have 3 or more sitting around, not sure if they are sold or not.


That is me...disappointed that the dealer chose to state this asissue from my end trying to resolve...was assured at 5.20 this evening that nobody had been told about issue...seems more lies from dealers


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

With what the dealers are offering part ex on a 2009 or 2010 the massive difference between that figure and the 2011 new figure would get you one hell of a tune up. Dont forget as soon as the new on is driven off the forecourt it is worth 20% ( VAT) less. Thats £13,990 for a car at £69,950 which they are at now......ouch.


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## AndyBrew (Feb 2, 2011)

Chris956 said:


> Dont forget as soon as the new on is driven off the forecourt it is worth 20% ( VAT) less. Thats £13,990 for a car at £69,950 which they are at now......ouch.


Not sure that's true :nervous:


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

who pays VAT on a second hand purchase then ?


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## AndyBrew (Feb 2, 2011)

It's included in the price of the car surely, put it this way, if a Nissan dealership had a demo car with say 500 miles on the clock that was registered they wouldn't be selling it for 13k under list price I'm sure??

I stand to be corrected though.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

AndyBrew said:


> It's included in the price of the car surely, put it this way, if a Nissan dealership had a demo car with say 500 miles on the clock that was registered they wouldn't be selling it for 13k under list price I'm sure??
> 
> I stand to be corrected though.


You`d be surprised. 2009 for example cars 6 months old were to be had £10k off list and with the inflated price of the 2011 I dont think it will be any different if not worse.


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## MNK (Dec 3, 2009)

Chris956 said:


> who pays VAT on a second hand purchase then ?


VAT doesn't just drop off the value of the car as soon as you take it off the dealer. It is intrinsic to the value at which it can be resold by a private seller - if you had just paid 100% VAT on some car and you sold it the next day, you wouldn't be selling it for half the price you have just paid because of the VAT.


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## saltyno1 (Sep 12, 2010)

I know of a guy who was offered the new 60 plate bently super sport gt for 55k less than listed price then give it 6 months it will loose another 10-15k, cars drop massive amounts as soon as they leave the showroom


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Interesting how long many used GTR's are taking to shift...seen one titanium car that has been for sale at main dealer since October...price just dropping further and further


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

MNK said:


> VAT doesn't just drop off the value of the car as soon as you take it off the dealer. It is intrinsic to the value at which it can be resold by a private seller - if you had just paid 100% VAT on some car and you sold it the next day, you wouldn't be selling it for half the price you have just paid because of the VAT.


VAT is only payable on first purchase. Then a private sale of the same asset does not incur VAT as it has already been paid and the chancellor is happy. If you bought the car through any business you have offset the VAT and this can then be claimed if sold on and the VAT bill will need to be paid.


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

i think if your buying these to keep for 3/4 years then your not going to worry about value dropping and 35 owners tend to have the £ not to worry about it

HOWEVER

if yoru buying one to be "in the cool club" and then want shot after doing 10k miles, then your going to get hammered on the depreciation

not many people out there that want 2nd hand 35s, from what ive seen

most wish to purchase new


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

matty32 said:


> i think if your buying these to keep for 3/4 years then your not going to worry about value dropping and 35 owners tend to have the £ not to worry about it
> 
> HOWEVER
> 
> ...


Now that early cars can be bought for forty odd thousand I am seeing a new breed of buyers who love the car and may buy one as long as they are not put off by tyres and brakes...I say that based on two friends who are now seeing if they can afford a GTR rather than a used M3 or 996 Turbo


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

saltyno1 said:


> I know of a guy who was offered the new 60 plate bently super sport gt for 55k less than listed price then give it 6 months it will loose another 10-15k, cars drop massive amounts as soon as they leave the showroom


Too many cars and not enough buyers across the luxury/sports market...look at deals available on new Astons currently

People want to buy but either cost and availability of finance is too prohibitive or part ex value on car too low due to low trade demand or over supply of new and used...too many competitors chasing small market meaning oversupply pushing prices down..97 GTR's on piston heads today add to that the unsold 2011's and situation is pretty dire...however GTR is great car and I loved that I had one...if I had bought the 2011 I would have kept it long term and not worried about the depreciation as I would have loved it...


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

What ever price loss a car hits as soon as it is driven off the forcourt is relivent to the price it costs new ,on expensive cars people always say things like that but it's the same for any car.


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## PaulMcA (Feb 17, 2010)

Hi Henry, Yes it is you and I knew that as I read your post on PGT. Didn't want to give full details away as it was not my place. Hope you didn't mind me mentioning your situation. :nervous:

Interesting comments. I am looking at a new purchase in approx 4-6 months and currently trying to decide on a MY10 GTR, a 997 Turbo or possibly an R8. All around the £40-£60k mark. Obvioulsy in the time I am hoping to buy, prices will be ven lower (I hope). Might even be looking at a MY11 GTR by then. Nice choice for me to have, but not an easy one.



Henry 145 said:


> That is me...disappointed that the dealer chose to state this asissue from my end trying to resolve...was assured at 5.20 this evening that nobody had been told about issue...seems more lies from dealers


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

3 unregistered my11 cars on pistonheads for between £60 and £64k


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## AlanN (Dec 10, 2007)

PaulMcA said:


> Hi Henry, Yes it is you and I knew that as I read your post on PGT. Didn't want to give full details away as it was not my place. Hope you didn't mind me mentioning your situation. :nervous:
> 
> Interesting comments. I am looking at a new purchase in approx 4-6 months and currently trying to decide on a MY10 GTR, a 997 Turbo or possibly an R8. All around the £40-£60k mark. Obvioulsy in the time I am hoping to buy, prices will be ven lower (I hope). Might even be looking at a MY11 GTR by then. Nice choice for me to have, but not an easy one.


PGT info shouldn't be cross posted mate, at all...
:chairshot


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## AlanN (Dec 10, 2007)

Chris956 said:


> VAT is only payable on first purchase. Then a private sale of the same asset does not incur VAT as it has already been paid and the chancellor is happy. If you bought the car through any business you have offset the VAT and this can then be claimed if sold on and the VAT bill will need to be paid.


I'd love to know what type of business can offset the VAT on a GTR?
Only Commercial vehicles get the VAT offset where I come from...GTR van anyone?
:clap::clap::clap:


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

AlanN said:


> I'd love to know what type of business can offset the VAT on a GTR?
> Only Commercial vehicles get the VAT offset where I come from...GTR van anyone?
> :clap::clap::clap:


VAT on cars can only be offset on lease payments to the best of my knowledge. I think even with a roofrack and blacked out quarter lights you'd struggle to convince Customs & Excise it was a commercial vehicle.

Diesel GTR anyone? :chuckle:


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

TAZZMAXX said:


> VAT on cars can only be offset on lease payments to the best of my knowledge. I think even with a roofrack and blacked out quarter lights you'd struggle to convince Customs & Excise it was a commercial vehicle.
> 
> Diesel GTR anyone? :chuckle:


Only 50% of the VAT unless solely used for business purposes.

D


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

AlanN said:


> I'd love to know what type of business can offset the VAT on a GTR?
> Only Commercial vehicles get the VAT offset where I come from...GTR van anyone?
> :clap::clap::clap:


My type of business. Claimed back vat on my gtr


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## T80 GTR (Jan 10, 2010)

Vat exempt never pay the vat on new cars:clap::clap::clap:


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> 3 unregistered my11 cars on pistonheads for between £60 and £64k


really?

I could only find the ad by Redline, who have a choice of colours for £67k

Wonder where their stock is coming from with 'delivery miles'?:nervous:


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Zed Ed said:


> really?
> 
> I could only find the ad by Redline, who have a choice of colours for £67k
> 
> Wonder where their stock is coming from with 'delivery miles'?:nervous:


Spotted Middlehurst ones n Pistonheads...I have heard that Nissan GB can supply today to dealers black and blue cars...only other colours that are in low supply...so no waiting if you want a new one n one of the main two colours

Interesting the price Redline are quoting for brand new 2011 cars...wonder how they are buying them in so cheap


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Henry 145 said:


> Spotted Middlehurst ones n Pistonheads..


meant in the £60 to £64 range, lol

pre-registering would be an unwelcome development


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Zed Ed said:


> meant in the £60 to £64 range, lol
> 
> pre-registering would be an unwelcome development


True but will it be a sad reality...was shocked at how many 2010 stock was sat waiting to be sold at dealers last year and discounts that were given...that pushed prices down on used cars and sucked up amount of buyers who would look at 2011 car either who bought late 2010 car or who cannot afford to change up now due to poor part exchange price on existing cars...I wonder if there are now too many HPC's...and not enough buyers


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## jamiep83 (Oct 27, 2010)

Been in to Tunbridge wells and the blue on is the demo car, have been told cant get white or silver. Not that i want silver


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## TonyH (Nov 29, 2010)

Re 2011 Stock - They are a few Blue & Black Cars in the dealer network and really thats all, some dealers may do a deal as cars do have to be paid for and 2 or 3 £70k cars is a lot of money. Looking at future supply nothing has been confirmed yet.

Re 2010 Stock - Kuro Black & Gunmetal is about it and stock is rapidly diminishing, i would predict as soon as its gone then used values will firm up.

The only cheap 2011my cars I know of are when some clients who qualify for a "VAT free disabled sale" buy a car and immedialty re-sell it. This may or may not have implications for future owners and is a market we keep away from.


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## TonyH (Nov 29, 2010)

VAT & New Cars - GTR or Other

VAT can be re-claimed if the car is 100% for business use, examples would be a leasing company, a hire car company, chauffer company or a motor dealer etc. 

It is possible for companies to purchase some cars and for them to be classed as a "poole" car for various members of staff to used, however this must not be used for personal use and its very unlikely you could get a GTR on this scheme !!

This is only my personal understanding.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

The whole 'VAT lost when you buy it' is complete and utter nonsense. 

The price paid for a used car is what the market is willing to pay. A company that buys a new car without VAT and re-sells it has to charge VAT so it's included in the used price. Private buyers don't care or understand what is vat or not, it's simply the overall price. VAT is irrelevant.

As said some some countries have a 200% sales tax, do you imagine that 1 month old cars sell at 1/3rd of the price????

I've re-sold a new car after two months at more than the new price etc

Go into any dealer and tell them you're willing to buy a one week old used car and you'll be paying the new price less 20% vat and I guarantee that most dealers will walk you out the door, they are simply not priced like that. The only cars that lose 20% in the first months are cars that depreciate like stink and lose 50% in the first year etc.


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## AlanN (Dec 10, 2007)

TonyH said:


> VAT & New Cars - GTR or Other
> 
> VAT can be re-claimed if the car is 100% for business use, examples would be a leasing company, a hire car company, chauffer company or a motor dealer etc.
> 
> ...


My point.
Unless you are in the motoring business, you're ****ed.

I own an engineering company and am VAT registered and can only reclaim motoring-related VAT on comercial vehicles :bawling:


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Wonder if worth waiting 6 to 12 months for a used 2011 GTR is the way to go when they will down in the fifties...might hold off looking for a new toy until then


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

Henry 145 said:


> Wonder if worth waiting 6 to 12 months for a used 2011 GTR is the way to go when they will down in the fifties...might hold off looking for a new toy until then


Can't really see them being in the 50's in six months but it's guesswork. Did you not lose your 3.5k deposit then? That must be a consideration.....


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Naranja said:


> Can't really see them being in the 50's in six months but it's guesswork. Did you not lose your 3.5k deposit then? That must be a consideration.....


As I already said there are my11 unregistered cars for sale on pistonheads for £60k, so I think it's fair to say that in six months they will be well into the 50s lol


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

MIKEGTR said:


> As I already said there are my11 unregistered cars for sale on pistonheads for £60k, so I think it's fair to say that in six months they will be well into the 50s lol


I don't know which 'Pistonheads' you're looking at but, the cheapest PHYSICAL MY11 GTR on the Pistonheads website, classified section is £67,999, an ex demo with 5k miles.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

The one for £60k was there last night


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

That was an unregistered MY10 not a new gen2 MY11


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

r34mspec said:


> That was an unregistered MY10 not a new gen2 MY11


That makes sense. Not bad value to save 7 or 8k.


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## srandall (Mar 31, 2006)

Chris956 said:


> If you bought the car through any business you have offset the VAT and this can then be claimed if sold on and the VAT bill will need to be paid.


Having worked as an accountant in the motor trade, I feel qualified to put you straight on a couple of issues. A business can only recover input VAT on a commercial vehicle, for example a van or lorry. It cannot recover the VAT on a car, and does not need to account for VAT on the later resale of the car.

Also all this talk of loosing the VAT on reselling a new car is one of those myths that makes me want to cry. Anything second hand is worth what a willing buyer is prepared to pay. If you have an ex demonstrator of a model that has a very long waiting list for delivery of the new car, you can often find a customer willing to pay nearly new money for the used car. I have never heard a salesman say "I can't let you pay that much for a used car because of the VAT". On your theory people should never have been able to but Ferrari F40's and resell them for more than list price. 

Can no one ever repeat this rubbish ever again on a car forum.


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## dumdum49 (Oct 29, 2010)

SRANDALL whilst in the majority your statement is correct you are a not fully correct in saying a business can not recover VAT on a car, I used to work in asset finance and I can tell you that a business can recover up to 100% VAT on a pool car i.e. where there is absolutely no private mileage and up to 50% of the VAT for personal use cars if they are funded either by finance lease or contract hire.

HM Revenue & Customs: Cars and motoring expenses: reclaiming VAT

I'm not sure if i am able to post the link to HMRC policy on this but it is on there for all to see if you type in the above


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## sharpaye7 (Feb 16, 2011)

i'm a qualified driving instructor, you reckon i could claim vat back if i use the gtr as my instruction car?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

dumdum49 said:


> SRANDALL whilst in the majority your statement is correct you are a not fully correct in saying a business can not recover VAT on a car, I used to work in asset finance and I can tell you that a business can recover up to 100% VAT on a pool car i.e. where there is absolutely no private mileage and up to 50% of the VAT for personal use cars if they are funded either by finance lease or contract hire.
> 
> HM Revenue & Customs: Cars and motoring expenses: reclaiming VAT
> 
> I'm not sure if i am able to post the link to HMRC policy on this but it is on there for all to see if you type in the above


Even if the vat is claimed back, when the vehicle is sold the new owner will have to pay, so it would make no difference to the resale value


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

srandall said:


> Having worked as an accountant in the motor trade, I feel qualified to put you straight on a couple of issues. A business can only recover input VAT on a commercial vehicle, for example a van or lorry. It cannot recover the VAT on a car, and does not need to account for VAT on the later resale of the car.
> 
> Also all this talk of loosing the VAT on reselling a new car is one of those myths that makes me want to cry. Anything second hand is worth what a willing buyer is prepared to pay. If you have an ex demonstrator of a model that has a very long waiting list for delivery of the new car, you can often find a customer willing to pay nearly new money for the used car. I have never heard a salesman say "I can't let you pay that much for a used car because of the VAT". On your theory people should never have been able to but Ferrari F40's and resell them for more than list price.
> 
> Can no one ever repeat this rubbish ever again on a car forum.


If you are talking about a limited run exotic super car then yes I agree. Get your deposit down stand first in the queue and once you have your car you will be able to sell it probably for more than you paid to someone that wants it NOW. Not with a GTR that are 2 a penny.
If you also believe that the car does not depreciate as soon as its driven off the forecourt you must be mad  Of course a dealer will try and sell an ex demo car for the maximum amount but in the real world he could be sitting on the car for ages. You go and price up a 6 month old MY10 with normal miles and see what you come back with ?


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Chris956 said:


> If you also believe that the car does not depreciate as soon as its driven off the forecourt you must be mad


No-one has said that, almost every new car depreciates unless there are none available for a long period of time (ie latest supercars etc). 

What they don't do is depreciate by VAT, but based on the supply/demand for those cars. Some cars 3 months old are worth 100% of their new price, some 90% and some only 80% or less etc.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

VAT isn't the end of it, being taxed on use of a carbon destroying company car is going to set you back huge amounts!! Pay the VAT it's cheaper!


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Two more showing for sale - 

£67,950 ALEX F NOBLE GT-R : Nissan GT-R Enhanced 2011MY Recaro Finished in Black Pearl

£69,950 Wessex Garages Bristol (Pennywell Road) : Nissan GT-R 3.8 [530] 2dr Auto


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

knightsbridge-auto-brokers.com : Brand New Gtr's £2000.00 off list

Two grand off on from this broker apparently!


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## avster (Sep 17, 2010)

If I was looking to buy a GTR I would show some restraint and buy the latest model in one years time. By then I'm sure you'll be able to pick one up which has around 2000 miles on the clock and is as good as new for around 60-62k.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

just wait 3 months and buy around July they should be around 57K~60K


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## avster (Sep 17, 2010)

Really?? Did not expect them to drop that much within 3 months.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

avster said:


> Really?? Did not expect them to drop that much within 3 months.


I am surprised how low the car at Nobles is already...they have only been out a month and that is an 11 plate with 1,600 miles on clock for £67 and abit thousand...probably £67k when you negotiate...that car would have been £71 maybe £72k when new unless with the previous VAT deal...given the amount of stock cars sat at dealers I would expect pressure to come to shift those...along with the mountain of used stock...talked to two dealers recently who say both say they have used cars stored which they will roll out onto forecourt once they have shifted the existing forecourt stock...alot of used cars been around for a while and prices are being cut...with alot of stock being held of new and old dealers will have to deal to trade...if new stock is cut in price then that has knock on down onto the used cars value.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Has anyone used Broadspeed?

They are showing MY11 as £69,950 but available at £63,849. 
Delivery in 12 to 14 weeks.


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## franki68 (Mar 11, 2010)

the bugger is if they discount them,then those who pay full whack are going to suffer even more.It kills the second hand values,ask any aston martin owner.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I test drove one on Tuesday. Mighty impressive it was too.

But it seems odd the dealer told me "the price is the price, no discounts" when Broadspeed who source through UK delaers (apparently) are offering them at that rate.

Was thinking of an 09 non-nav for about 42k, but MY11 looks a lot more attractive with potentially £6,000 off!


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

CT17 said:


> Has anyone used Broadspeed?
> 
> They are showing MY11 as £69,950 but available at £63,849.
> Delivery in 12 to 14 weeks.


It is a scam as they will charge extra for delivery, 1st years RFL, etc etc etc
Then the 12 to 14 weeks will become 20 to 24 weeks and then the price will have gone up and you will be offered a different colour. All the time they will be holding onto your deposit and helping their cashflow. 
I should know as I am a motor dealer (an honest one)


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

nurburgringgtr said:


> It is a scam as they will charge extra for delivery, 1st years RFL, etc etc etc
> Then the 12 to 14 weeks will become 20 to 24 weeks and then the price will have gone up and you will be offered a different colour. All the time they will be holding onto your deposit and helping their cashflow.
> I should know as I am a motor dealer (an honest one)


Putting all that to 1 side, how sure are you that the Broadspeed is for a MY11 unregistered car?

D


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

To quote Broadspeed about the GTR:



> Whether you want a new GT-R manual or automatic with a petrol or diesel engine.


Didn't know you could get a diesel:clap:


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

paul__k said:


> To quote Broadspeed about the GTR:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't know you could get a diesel:clap:


I spotted that...!!

Wonder if we can use Broadspeed prices to get discount on the UK dealers stock cars...they claim they only make a tiny profit on each car but I suspect that is not entirely true


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

sumo69 said:


> Putting all that to 1 side, how sure are you that the Broadspeed is for a MY11 unregistered car?
> D


I've not phoned up and asked yet, hence my question. But the spec sheet includes LED Daytime Running Lights. MY11 only I believe.



paul__k said:


> To quote Broadspeed about the GTR:
> Didn't know you could get a diesel:clap:


Didn't see that anwhere, just:
NISSAN GT-R 3.8 V6 TWIN TURBO AUTO 2DR


The responses have not been exactly positive though. :nervous:


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Think I have made my feelings known about the "new" car IT AIN'T WORTH IT !!!


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## sharpaye7 (Feb 16, 2011)

Steve said:


> Think I have made my feelings known about the "new" car IT AIN'T WORTH IT !!!


Is that in a seperate thread? If so can you direct me to that thread pls. I really don't know whether to hold out for a MY11 or MY10? be quite interesting to see peoples dif views


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

It all depends how fat your wallet is!!

No doubt the MY11 is a marginally better product but for those that bought an 09 for early/mid £50's, the supplement doesn't appear to be worthwhile for many.

D


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Dave as you say "marginally" - very

read here

PistonHeads Headlines - Driven: 2011 Nissan GT-R

Fancy Bedford on the 23rd April ?


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Steve said:


> Dave as you say "marginally" - very
> 
> read here
> 
> ...


So not to go off thread - check your text messages!!

D


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Steve said:


> Think I have made my feelings known about the "new" car IT AIN'T WORTH IT !!!


Looking at the six on Autotrader and the unreg ones at dealers it appears that you were right Steve on values


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

sumo69 said:


> So not to go off thread - check your text messages!!
> 
> D


Yep, not seen any from you but that may be cos you are sending them to my old numner from last year when I was made redundant !!!

Will PM you my new (old number - the one I have had for 10 years !!)


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