# Evo car of the year issue



## bluediamond (Sep 6, 2010)

So, todays Evo mag is the eCoty issue for 2010.
MY11 GTR up against some very very tasty competition. You forget whats come out this year and it is a fine vintage. Dont think we've ever had it so good tbh.
Ferrari are a miserable bunch of control freaks though. Wouldnt let 2 Ferraris go up against each other so the 458 is in but the 599 GTO was barred. 
Wont spoil it by letting on what won


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

My guess is that the GT3 RS will win due to the inability to fully extract Chris Harris from the tailpipe.


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## bluediamond (Sep 6, 2010)

*What a Porsche win eCoty*

Surely not:chuckle:


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

...and it did... must be a good mota after all! For the squillionth time running...

.... bet it doesn't overheat its tranny 5 laps into a track session!!!!


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Bet it couldn't hold pace with a Civic Type-R on the roads in the pictures on its stock tyres.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

... as for the LFA.... that utter pile of shit.... 4th?

At least the GT3 RS is actually a good car in the dry.

Engine of the year! Oh **** you, I'm on the verge of ceasing reading. Because it revs 500rpm higher than the competition it's a better engine even though it's about 50hp down on its quoted power and is inferior to the 458's V8 in all ways except (subjectively) noise and cylinder count. Maybe manufacturers should start hiring musicians instead of engineers.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

R33_GTS-t said:


> My guess is that the GT3 RS will win due to the inability to fully extract Chris Harris from the tailpipe.


I have actually written to EVO and considering cancelling my subscription (which I have had since issue one) as Chris Harris (who I am sure is a very nice chap and very big petrol head) appears to write the entire magazine now and I am very, very bored of Porsche being the be all and end all of life. I am sure all 911 are incredibly good cars etc etc etc but frankly they can't be better than anything else from £65K-£150K as otherwise we would all be driving them....

Rant over - not had a reply yet either unsurprisingly.


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## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

Ive been reading ECOTY for years and have based many of my car purchases on the results (unless a porsche wins that is)

I was surprised to see the GTR so far down the list, especially as they have made the car so much better this year (supposedly) On the other hand, there was some serious competition, much of which costing twice the price.

Another slight let down was to see the that the Gerard Lopez's GTR was "Tuned Car of the Year" to be fiar though, he is a multi zillionare and its has had more money spent on it than any other UK GTR to date..

Oh well, perhaps my GTR will get the title next year then, what do you reakon Kev? 

Make her fly Kev, Make Her Fly :flame:


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

Mine came thro the door this morning

Suprised the Gtr was so far down


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## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

ROG350Z said:


> I have actually written to EVO and considering cancelling my subscription (which I have had since issue one) as Chris Harris (who I am sure is a very nice chap and very big petrol head) appears to write the entire magazine now and I am very, very bored of Porsche being the be all and end all of life. I am sure all 911 are incredibly good cars etc etc etc but frankly they can't be better than anything else from £65K-£150K as otherwise we would all be driving them....
> 
> Rant over - not had a reply yet either unsurprisingly.


lol I too have senced a bias towards porsche over the years, sure ECOTY may give the title to a new comer for a year or so but we're always back to the trusty porker.. 

I think the answer to this phenomenon lies in the latest issue of EVO and is staring us right in the face (literally) on pages 64 and 66 (aptly) take a look at the adverage age of the panel of judges and all will become clear 

I just want to make it clear that I have nothing against older people infact I was always very fond of my late grandfather and admit we can all learn a great deal from these mysterious experienced creatures :bowdown1:


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

ROG350Z said:


> I have actually written to EVO and considering cancelling my subscription (which I have had since issue one) as Chris Harris (who I am sure is a very nice chap and very big petrol head) appears to write the entire magazine now and I am very, very bored of Porsche being the be all and end all of life. I am sure all 911 are incredibly good cars etc etc etc but frankly they can't be better than anything else from £65K-£150K as otherwise we would all be driving them....
> 
> Rant over - not had a reply yet either unsurprisingly.


I don't really have that big a problem with the GT3 RS winning. It's a good car (in the dry) but I would personally have given it to the 458 though. What it does on normal tyres is simply incredible, on semi-slicks, like the GT3 RS, it would be out of this world.

As for the LFA coming 4th, that's not even consistent with themselves. After the first drive they gave it a 4 star (see issue 138). What has changed?

As for engine of the year, the LFA, which is approximately the same weight as a 458, takes 50+ seconds to get to 300kph. The 458 manages it in 32s with 300cc less and makes way more torque across the entire rev range despite this capacity deficit... and its more economical. 

Are we really saying that engine note >> everything else? Do we really want manufacturers to pull people away from engine management, cam and injection development and devote their entire resources to musically tuning a damn tailpipe.

As for this ****ing ability to go from idle to the redline in 0.6s in neutral, that's like measuring how long it takes to get from 0 to 100mph on a rolling road. Who gives a rat's arse? 

I have an RC car that will beat every car in that test from 0-5mph and has no flywheel inertia. I also have a video game that beats them for engine sound. See what happens when you drive too far up the long, wide arse of subjectivity?


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## bluediamond (Sep 6, 2010)

*The thing is though*

I think Evo as a publication and as a group of enthusiasts are rightly held in high regard by all of us.
The fact is that none of us can possibly hope to have spent substantial time behind the wheel of all the main contenders. How many of us have driven an LFA!! 
They are in the best position to judge and I think its fair to say their criteria are pretty close to what most of us care about in a car.
Porsche make fabulous cars. They just do. No point in pretending otherwise and getting narked because they keep winning. I think that a couple of Fezzas have surely deserved the ecoty title in recent years more than the competing Porsche ( Scuderia, this year the 458, maybe ) but despite clearly pissing off Ferrari Evo plumped for the 911. I personally love that about them, bet the ities spit feathers about it:clap:
Agree with GTRSTAR about referencing Evo when buying cars, always rate their opinion.
Its a competition about their merits as driving machines only, price and practicality dont enter into it, and as such fair dos to the guys from Stuttgart ........ Again


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

ROG350Z said:


> I have actually written to EVO and considering cancelling my subscription (which I have had since issue one) as Chris Harris (who I am sure is a very nice chap and very big petrol head) appears to write the entire magazine now and I am very, very bored of Porsche being the be all and end all of life. I am sure all 911 are incredibly good cars etc etc etc but frankly they can't be better than anything else from £65K-£150K as otherwise we would all be driving them....
> 
> Rant over - not had a reply yet either unsurprisingly.


This is exactly how i feel too,on most pages when even talking about other cars porsche is mentioned somewhere its just boring,and chris harris always gets the top reviews and ends most paragraphs with 'porsche'

'The Zonda is awonderful porsche like car it handles like a gt3rs and dont you just love the porsches sports chrono,back to the zonda great car but its no porsche'..CH


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## bluediamond (Sep 6, 2010)

*Love Chris Harris myself*

Best car journo around.
Check out the 458 + GT3RS video he did, great stuff.
The 458 is clearly an absolute technical tour de force but the fact it is a paddle shift, electronic everything kind of car and will get round a track quicker doesnt mean its as much fun to drive. It may be for all I know, but I can understand why journos may think that controlling the clutch and gearchange yourself is more involving.
Its about driving pleasure not statistics or lap times.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

bluediamond said:


> Its about driving pleasure not statistics or lap times.


Shouldn't it be about both? At least that way we have something other than opinions, even if the two don't align at the end of it.

They go on about how this year was tougher but last year the hardtop R8 V10 didn't even make the line-up, this year the spyder version finishes 6th. Now forgive me for pointing this out, but a spyder is simply an inferior version of a hardtop carrying an extra unnecessary 100 kilos that's built for hairdressers.


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## Karls (Jul 12, 2010)

Chris Harris - great journo. Unfortunately he can't please all of the people all of the time. No one can!


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

He is a great journo. 

It's these sorts of conclusions that baffle me though. The SLS: "not the most polished of the bunch dynamically" and "sluggish gearbox" but it comes 5th, again seemingly based mostly on engine noise.

A good write-up should be 50% objective and 50% subjective. It's now at about 95+% subjective. An eCOTY with no lap times or acceleration figures!? 

In the past, cars have been taken on to British B-roads to assess how they handle at speed on our real roads. Why take cars on to a wet B-road and then ignore the fact that Pilot Sport Cup tyres don't work in such conditions. Didn't see the word 'terrifying' anywhere; a word which is compulsory when describing fast driving on a wet, uneven surface with semi-slicks. As for the LFA - it can't even cope on race tracks if the braking zones are a little bumpy. Are its dynamics on a B-road completely irrelevant because of the engine noise?


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## bluediamond (Sep 6, 2010)

*Its bound to be subjective*

Impossible to make it completely scientific.
Agree that lap times whilst not being the be all and end all indicate a lot about how good a car is and I can understand the Nurburgring stuff. Its really a fast, varied, at times bumpy B road through the trees rather than a track, and good times there are probably reflective of the ultimate ground covering pace of a given car. Had a frank exchange of views about the BMW M6 v the GTR and thats the clincher in that case. An M6 will overhaul a GTR at higher speeds eventually and its comparable in other stats but it is 30s+ slower in std form around that bit of Germany. Says something in my view.
Now making judgements like Evo have done is more than that. Its not really about whats fastest, its not value for money although maybe it should be, its about whats best to drive.
Also you have to allow that none of us have driven all the contenders so we have to take their word for it to a certain extent and they have clearly drawn on other experience of the cars prior to the test. Part worn Sport cups in the wet are scary its true.
There does seem to be a lot of credit being given to how the cars sound in the piece. Reading the summary, the GTR is damned with faint praise a bit then the SLS is excused some shortfalls because it makes a great noise and the LFAs rock hard ride is similarly put aside because they love the engine. 
It does seem inconsistent.
Not driven the spyder or an R8 V10 but its not the first time I've seen the drop top described as superior. 
But p...sing Ferraris control freaks off by constantly choosing the latest beetle derivative rather than their uber-tech supercar is priceless. 
With Ferrari, Its not the cars as such I struggle with, its the owners ( Not all of them ) who cover apparently 1500mpa in their garage queens on average , What a waste


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

bluediamond said:


> With Ferrari, Its not the cars as such I struggle with, its the owners ( Not all of them ) who cover apparently 1500mpa in their garage queens on average , What a waste


The key word is 'apparently'.......

.....many Ferraris I know of have a very distinct difference between what they have actually driven and what the mileage shows. Same applies to a lot of Porsches as well.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

It seems to me that they were scared to do lap tests, or point-to-point tests, in case their dreams melted right before their eyes.

Keep your eyes and balls closed and the LFA is a great car.


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

press

I do a fair about of PR stuff for my job and I've hardly ever found a straight un-biased press guy....

to be press you must be conflicted....


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## bluediamond (Sep 6, 2010)

Robbie J said:


> press
> 
> I do a fair about of PR stuff for my job and I've hardly ever found a straight un-biased press guy....
> 
> to be press you must be conflicted....


Fair comment I think. On the whole I have a low opinion of journalists. Thats perhaps influenced by tabloid bollocks over many years and the willingness of a newspaper to do anything for a short term boost in circulation, even sabotage your own country's 18m pound world cup bid 
But I dont think this is the case here.
They do test lots of the contenders at Bedford for track times but ecoty has always been about more than whats fastest. They have honestly come close to giving it to Clio hatchbacks in the past and they always mark Elises high.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

True but at the same time ECOTY has always had lap tests in the past to balance subjectivity with straight unbiased objectivity. Not having them seems to say that performance doesn't matter. 

The only lap test in the whole mag was of a Skoda YETI. Really, who gives a ****?


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## Samuel Cross (Aug 2, 2002)

R33_GTS-t said:


> True but at the same time ECOTY has always had lap tests in the past to balance subjectivity with straight unbiased objectivity. Not having them seems to say that performance doesn't matter.


Are you sure about that?


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

They did last year. It seems to be a developing trend at the moment. Movement away from figures to subjectivity is blinding. One car may handle better at the limit but if the other car's limit is twice as high, it's an apples vs horsehit comparison. The lack of feedback at the limit in one car might be because it's created a temporal disruption in the time-space continuum and bent gravity to allow you to drive so fast. So maybe you should go easy on it if it seems to be constantly making small adjustments.


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## Samuel Cross (Aug 2, 2002)

R33_GTS-t said:


> They did last year. It seems to be a developing trend at the moment. Movement away from figures to subjectivity is blinding. One car may handle better at the limit but if the other car's limit is twice as high, it's an apples vs horsehit comparison. The lack of feedback at the limit in one car might be because it's created a temporal disruption in the time-space continuum and bent gravity to allow you to drive so fast. So maybe you should go easy on it if it seems to be constantly making small adjustments.


I'm not sure that there was a track element to ECOTY in 2003, 2004 or 2006.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

I also don't like the modern hypocrisy with respect to paddle-shift and AWD. Everyone seems to want a manual RWD car because they're true drivers cars, yet at the same time they all want traction control, ABS and a stability program (however subtle) to cover up the affects of a manual gearbox and RWD. Do they actually want a 'true drivers car' or just one that makes them think it's a 'true driver's car'.

In the strictest terms, there hasn't been a 'true driver's car' since the '80s.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Samuel Cross said:


> I'm not sure that there was a track element to ECOTY in 2003, 2004 or 2006.


And a 911 won 2 of those too.


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## Samuel Cross (Aug 2, 2002)

So you're conceding that the statement you previously made that: 'ECOTY has always had lap tests in the past', was incorrect?


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Samuel Cross said:


> So you're conceding that the statement you previously made that: 'ECOTY has always had lap tests in the past', was incorrect?


In recent times then.

Numbers speak louder than words.


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## Samuel Cross (Aug 2, 2002)

R33_GTS-t said:


> In recent times then.
> 
> Numbers speak louder than words.


Quantitative vs Qualitative and Objectivity vs Subjectivity is a can of worms that I simply cannot face opening!!:chuckle:


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

R33_GTS-t said:


> Everyone seems to want a manual RWD car because they're true drivers cars, yet at the same time they all want traction control, ABS and a stability program
> 
> In the strictest terms, there hasn't been a 'true driver's car' since the '80s.


So the GT3RS that won ECOTY in 2008 that doesn't have either t/c or stability doesn't count then?

Even the newer GT3/2 that have t/c and stability can both be fully turned off without affecting the warranty when desired.

I doubt many people would seriously say that ABS is not desired in any car.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Guy said:


> So the GT3RS that won ECOTY in 2008 that doesn't have either t/c or stability doesn't count then?
> 
> Even the newer GT3/2 that have t/c and stability can both be fully turned off without affecting the warranty when desired.
> 
> I doubt many people would seriously say that ABS is not desired in any car.


Why not? I thought all these people wanted a true driver's car, not some system controlling the braking force for them. 

Wonder how many people switch off the TC and PSM?


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## equinox (Dec 14, 2010)

Very few I'd guess unless very experienced and on a track day


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## bluediamond (Sep 6, 2010)

I think 997 GT3 RS has always had TC if not the full PSM as other 997s have. They also have PASM which gives a couple of ride stiffness options.
Anyway, how many electronic systems the car has is not the point. And its not about how fast the car is on a track which doesnt have a lot of relevance to a cars road behaviour.
For example a couple of weeks ago Evo tested the Audi RS5 against its natural rivals ( Not the GTR which is frankly in a different league  ) and they did not like it as a road car for a number of reasons, eventually placing it last by some margin. But the RS5 was the fastest of the 4 round the race circuit. Lots of power, lots of rubber on a 4wd chassis and Bob's your uncle.
Fact is that inert feel-less steering, a stiff uncommunicative chassis and a complete lack of adjustability count for less than loads of grunt and grip on a track but does not make for an engaging talented drivers car.


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