# Your opinion on these cambelt kits please



## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

I have decided I would like to replace my timing belt and tensioners since my current Nismo one was installed in 2007. I feel its probably about time I change it....the car hasn't covered many miles since that time though.

Anyway, I came across these two timing belt kits...would any of you recommend either one? The Nismo seems cheaper than what I expected it to be:

DAYCO (I read somewhere that Dayco are pretty good and are OEM suppliers for perfomance cars??):

Nissan Skyline R33 GTR RB26DETT Timing Belt Kit With Uprated Dayco TEFLON Belt | eBay


NISMO:

NISMO TIMING BELT KIT SKYLINE GTR STAGEA RB20 RB25 RB26 | eBay



thanks everyone :wavey:


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Buy the Nismo kit from JDMPlanet, also their idlers and tensioners are the same as you would get from Nissan. NTN is an OE supplier.


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## anthonymcgrath (Feb 22, 2005)

for fifty more i'd do the nismo but the other one is still a good bit of kit


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

cheers guys...looks like Dayco is out then


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## anthonymcgrath (Feb 22, 2005)

just to add there really is nothing wrong with them - i've ran a couple in the past without issue but i'd rather go with a tomei/hks/greddy trusted brand if its only gonna be a little more - i got a HKS kevlar one for my 32gtr build because it was literally about 40quid more and i'm this much into the money on the engine build so why not...


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I will use the dayco every time. There is no way these other belts can justify the outrageous price except for the brand. You will not go wrong with dayco.

However, feel free to get bummed for a 'insert crap advert here' branded dayco belt. Lol


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## speedr33per (Apr 19, 2007)

All the timing belts I have fitted to skylines right up to 600bhp ones were blueprint 30 quid ones and never had problems.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

R32 Combat said:


> I will use the dayco every time. There is no way these other belts can justify the outrageous price except for the brand. You will not go wrong with dayco.
> 
> However, feel free to get bummed for a 'insert crap advert here' branded dayco belt. Lol


+1. Use Dayco belt on my GTR and just put one on my 306 Rallye. Dayco are a good brand so don't be put off.

A Nismo/HKS/Greddy belt is NOT worth the money they charge. ANY belt which meets or exceeds OEM spec is suitable whether it costs £20 or £200!!!


TT


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

thanks. I might just save the extra 50 quid and stick with the dayco then. it's very helpful to see all the opinions here. I assume the tensioner and idler that comes with the dayco kit is perfectly fine too...? 

my plans for the car are to do a precision 6266 install later this year and I want to get quality reliable parts to handle 700bhp+ rather than change again later (e.g. belts, pulleys etc)

thanks all.


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## Olly-R (Aug 15, 2008)

Those hks belts make a noise when hot (sounds like a bearing getting tired !), not ideal when u just spent thousands on your engine! I put the adl blue print on no noise..


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## andysGTR (Jan 20, 2014)

Dont tell me that ive just bought a genuine nissan timing belt kit and an hks belt! Your saying they make a whining noise!


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## samgtr (Aug 4, 2010)

My hks belt also whined, got it changed to standard belt and all fine


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## andysGTR (Jan 20, 2014)

pfft might just buy a nissan item then


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## geoffree (May 16, 2010)

Olly-R said:


> Those hks belts make a noise when hot (sounds like a bearing getting tired !), not ideal when u just spent thousands on your engine! I put the adl blue print on no noise..


They won't make a noise if set up with the correct tension and that takes a lot of experience. You must set them looser than factory when cold so they're at correct tension once the engine's hot.
OR 
Do the smart thing, buy a Nissan belt and you'll be sweet.
A no brainer for me.


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

hmmmmm..does this mean the stock nissan belts are good for 600+ bhp applications? Not a track car, road use only


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## samgtr (Aug 4, 2010)

amervyn123 said:


> hmmmmm..does this mean the stock nissan belts are good for 600+ bhp applications? Not a track car, road use only



It will be perfectly fine


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

wow ok. I was under the impression for high horsepower needs, the stock belts were a no-go and that's where the strengthened aftermarket belts came into use.

I learn something new every day. 

thanks


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

amervyn123 said:


> wow ok. I was under the impression for high horsepower needs, the stock belts were a no-go and that's where the strengthened aftermarket belts came into use.
> 
> I learn something new every day.
> 
> thanks


A cam belt turns the cam shaft. There is no real correlation between hp and belt strength. Some say that a higher lift cam required more torque to rotate, as a stronger spring requires more energy to compress. But the spring helps rotate the cam when the valve closes so there is no real argument there.

With ref to 'HKS' cam belt needing to be looser to accommodate the expansion with a hot engine. The circumference of the belt back grows by less than 0.25mm from 20deg C to 80deg C. So if a HKS belt makes more noise, its because it***8217;s less efficient costing energy.

Don***8217;t believe the hype.

I used a Dayco Mazda 323 Diesel cam belt on the RB30 with 600hp and high lift cams.


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## speedr33per (Apr 19, 2007)

amervyn123 said:


> wow ok. I was under the impression for high horsepower needs, the stock belts were a no-go and that's where the strengthened aftermarket belts came into use.
> 
> I learn something new every day.
> 
> thanks


A lot of peaple are under the illusion that the more power your run then you need an hks belt or similar when it's complete bollocks,but it seems to be that the tuner building the engine is the one scaremongering the owners into fitting the overpriced useless belts.as I have said I have fitted 30 quid blueprint belts to high power gtrs and one was over 650 bhp. 
I have even seen the massive damage done when an overly expensive hks belt chewed through adjustable alloy cam gears on a 800bhp supra.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I got quotes on a ADL Blueprint belt and pulley kit, came to around £110 plus vat, in the end it was a no brainer I paid £90 odd for a Nismo belt from RK and £50 for the NTN pulley kit from JDMPlanet.


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## steve_gts4 (Nov 30, 2009)

Ive got a standard nissan belt on my medium power RB26. The problem I am having with it is that the belt is stretching and giving an inaccurate timing signal to the ECU, as of course the crank position is measured via the cams. The result being that the tuner had to run very conservative ignition timing across the map, to stop detonation. 

I think the idea with the strengthened belts is that they dont stretch as much and give a more accurate timing reading.


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## speedr33per (Apr 19, 2007)

steve_gts4 said:


> Ive got a standard nissan belt on my medium power RB26. The problem I am having with it is that the belt is stretching and giving an inaccurate timing signal to the ECU, as of course the crank position is measured via the cams. The result being that the tuner had to run very conservative ignition timing across the map, to stop detonation.
> 
> I think the idea with the strengthened belts is that they dont stretch as much and give a more accurate timing reading.


You do realise that the timing belt tensioner takes up any slack and I have never had a timing belt stretch but when u say that you get an inaccurate timing signal does that mean that your timing is out? I know that once you get to high power it's better to get rid of the cas due to scatter but so far it's only on the really big high power cars I have seen that on.
I am struggling to see how the belt can cause issues with the signal to ecu while the engine is Correctly timed up unles the timing is already out?


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## steve_gts4 (Nov 30, 2009)

speedr33per said:


> You do realise that the timing belt tensioner takes up any slack and I have never had a timing belt stretch but when u say that you get an inaccurate timing signal does that mean that your timing is out? I know that once you get to high power it's better to get rid of the cas due to scatter but so far it's only on the really big high power cars I have seen that on.
> I am struggling to see how the belt can cause issues with the signal to ecu while the engine is Correctly timed up unles the timing is already out?


Im talking about scatter.


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## andysGTR (Jan 20, 2014)

surprised hks would make a product that is seemingly useless


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## speedr33per (Apr 19, 2007)

steve_gts4 said:


> Im talking about scatter.


But scatter if from the cas though which has nothing to do with the belt then.


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

sorry gents, slightly off topic....as I am going to be doing my cam belt...should I go ahead the do the water pump also? As far as I know, I currently have an N1 pump...I don't really want to have to fork out another few hundred quid for another pump if the current N1 is good enough. I am thoroughly confuzzled!
cheers


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

You do not need to change the water pump. The main reason changing the water pump when doing a cam belt change is if the pump is used to tension the belt. The RB has a separate tensioner. You do not need to change the tensioner or idler either.


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

regarding the water pump....great thanks! 

so i don't need to change the idler or tensioner for the cambelt?? it comes as part of the kit...if i don't need to change those bits, I might as just get the belt itself...?


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## steve_gts4 (Nov 30, 2009)

speedr33per said:


> But scatter if from the cas though which has nothing to do with the belt then.


The rotational speed of the engine is kept steady by the flywheel. The cams are moved by the flywheel via the cambelt, and the cambelt is basically a spring as it can stretch. As the cam belt stretches and contracts, the speed of the cams vary too. The CAS sees this as a change in the rpm of the engine so it sends a fluctuating signal to the ECU.

If the cams were turning the crank, we would not have a problem


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## speedr33per (Apr 19, 2007)

steve_gts4 said:


> The rotational speed of the engine is kept steady by the flywheel. The cams are moved by the flywheel via the cambelt, and the cambelt is basically a spring as it can stretch. As the cam belt stretches and contracts, the speed of the cams vary too. The CAS sees this as a change in the rpm of the engine so it sends a fluctuating signal to the ECU.
> 
> If the cams were turning the crank, we would not have a problem


I kinda agree there but as the belt stretches the tensioner takes up the slack or should do  also if that was the case then why is it when peaple do away with the cas for a trigger wheel they have no problems? Or can the sensor that's used accommodate it?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

speedr33per said:


> I kinda agree there but as the belt stretches the tensioner takes up the slack or should do  also if that was the case then why is it when peaple do away with the cas for a trigger wheel they have no problems? Or can the sensor that's used accommodate it?


No, what you say is not correct. The tensioner is fixed and its used to tension the belt once. Its not like a hydraulic tensioner on chain driven cams which exerts a constant tension when the engine is running

Ref timing scatter and belt stretch. Its not caused by belt stretch, it caused by belt flex which you cannot overcome without replacing the belt with gears, which is how a high performance engine drives the cams. Also, running ignition timing from the cam is just plain daft... It should only be used for engine position.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Mervyn don't dwell on it because all these comments will confuse your even more. The Nismo kit at 159 is a good deal.


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

lol thanks mate. I am leaving the water pump alone....but i will change the idler and tensioner while I am doing the belt.

cheers


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

May as well change the water pump, N1 pumps are around £140


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

dude, the cheapest I have been quoted is 240 something....where did you find them for 140??


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## David (Apr 25, 2003)

I have recently been involved with a cambelt related problem on a newly developed engine (before it was released and have been into detail I didn't even know existed), from that experiance I can say the rb26 belt can not be stretching. The reason being is if it stretched with the fixed tensioners you would quickly see zero tension, at that point the belt simply falls off.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

FRRACER said:


> May as well change the water pump, N1 pumps are around £140


Best do the oil pump while you're at it. Lol


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

LOL well that is an engine out job so I am sure he will pass on that


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Thermostat can be changed though for a Nismo one.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Don't run a cooler stat. It's not good for the engine.


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

oil pump? lol....well, why don't I put in an extended sump while I'm at that 

on a serious note....so it is recommended I change the thermostat for a nismo one? What do you mean about the "cooler stat"?

sorry, me so confused...


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Why would Nismo make such items if they are of no real benefit? You can expect others to make things that are more gimmick but surely not Nismo?


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## speedr33per (Apr 19, 2007)

The colder a thermostat ones up the higher chance that the engine won't get up to correct operating temperature


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

ah ok...just read a few other threads regarding this topic..


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## andysGTR (Jan 20, 2014)

FRRACER said:


> Why would Nismo make such items if they are of no real benefit? You can expect others to make things that are more gimmick but surely not Nismo?


Could say the same about the HKS belt though why is it made if its crap


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I don't think they are saying it is crap, but £ vs a std belt is what they are discussing.

But if you can get a Nismo, HKS belt for only a few pennies more than a std belt why not?


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## 59bhp (Jun 7, 2010)

I usually try and stick with gates belts  (a lot of the aftermarket companies use these for the manufacturing anyways)


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## speedr33per (Apr 19, 2007)

I would never buy a named belt purely on the basis that the cheap as hell one does the exact same job. 
Plus I'm not really a brand name whore like some owners can be lol


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## andysGTR (Jan 20, 2014)

I think its more to do with the fact the HKS belts re nosey not their price though


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

andysGTR said:


> I think its more to do with the fact the HKS belts re nosey not their price though


Both really. A 'superior' belt should inform prospective buyers of its advantage honestly. That justifies the increased price. A correctly fitted belt, like s nissan one, or gates or dayco etc do not make a noise. Indicating a noisy belt is not correctly fitted. And of all the belts to be poorly fitting, the cam belt is the last one that should be bad.
Sintered steel cam gear, like nissan ones, are highly polished after a while. This is due to the nature of the material. Wire eroded anodised aluminium cam wheels are of poor surface finish and will not polish like sintered steel. This increases belt wear and noise. 

Another reason to understand the consequence of fitting 'uprated' parts.
Jun made adjustable cam gears from the originals, like i copied. That and a stock belt is the optimum solution.


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## yodookie (Oct 22, 2012)

I have steel adjustable cam gears (old style HKS ones) and the HKS belt. The belt works fine, but I can't seem to get the noise to go completely away. It is very noisy if overtightened at all. If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have bought a Gates belt instead of the HKS and called it good.


Hope that helps you OP.:thumbsup:


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## The Brigand (Mar 18, 2014)

Gates also do motorsport belts - anyone tried them?


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## andysGTR (Jan 20, 2014)

spoke to my tuner and he seems to think its due to people making them to tight no other reason


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

yodookie said:


> I have steel adjustable cam gears (old style HKS ones) and the HKS belt. The belt works fine, but I can't seem to get the noise to go completely away. It is very noisy if overtightened at all. If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have bought a Gates belt instead of the HKS and called it good.
> 
> 
> Hope that helps you OP.:thumbsup:



does help me mate, as well as all the other discussions going on in this thread 

i have decided and gone for the dayco set which i posted on the first page. Seems good and cheap and I could put the extra 50 quid I would have spent on the nismo belt towards a new n1 waterpump :clap:

Only after i placed the order i came across some good Gates racing belts from Aussie and they weren't badly priced either. Oh well...let's see how i get on with this belt...i am uber nervous about changing all this myself, but going to give it a go :nervous::nervous:


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## ian turbo (Apr 29, 2003)

Ok I had my hks belt fitted yesterday and is making a bit of a whine. Not much just a little. So what I want to know is... is it gonna be ok or do I need to loosen it a bit ?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Certainly check the tension is correct. They do not have to be very tight.


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## ian turbo (Apr 29, 2003)

Ok thanks il get my macanic to take a look.


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## andysGTR (Jan 20, 2014)

getting mine fitted in the next week or so will keep you updated hopefully its not a squeaker


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

Gates sell cam wheels in Australia which are identical to the HKS ones in every respect except they are blue and have Gates logos. They even share the exact same part number as the HKS ones. Maybe jumping to conclusions but it would suggest that Gates make the HKS belts. Also the Greddy belt and the PE one is pretty much identical to the Gates own brand Kevlar belt.

Personally I like the insurance of a bit of extra belt strength and use a Greddy belt.

Most of the noise issues are due to being overtight which overstresses the belt and prematurely wears the idler and tensioner bearings. It also overloads the tensioner and idle bolt/stud with increased lateral load.


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## geoffree (May 16, 2010)

I can't believe this thread is still going so strong.
If you're having your belt done by a workshop, you should demand the car leaves the shop as quietly as it went in, none of this, "It will go away in time" story.
As 32 Combat has said numerous times, it's all to do with belt tension.
Something perhaps the first timer can be excused for setting incorrectly but NOT a competent workshop.
The use of kevlar composition belts further complicates matters in that they must be set looser, again an experienced shop will know this.
Due to the Nissan design, it's quite a job to re-set an incorrectly tensioned belt, hence the standard reply, "That new noise will soon go away".
Don't be taken in. 
The noise goes away really quickly once valves hit pistons.
AFAIK, Dayco make the OEM belts for most manufacturers including Nissan.


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