# Questions & answers section ?



## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

Hi I am a potential buyer with a few initial questions then a few more each day  I appreciate there are hundreds of me and it can get quite annoying repeating the same answers. I have done numerous searches and found few answers to my specific questions although i appreciate they probably are within the forum somewhere.

Is there a common qs and answers section or sticky in the forum that brings these common qs to one place?

thanks in advance


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

most have been asked but ask away!


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

ok here goes

1. What is COBB? what does it stand for
2. Do any upgrades performance wise e.g. Litchfield stage 1, 2 etc void warranty
3. Is it possible to have ECU upgrade reversed without the dealer knowing so that if you have a warranty issue you could get it done no problems.
4. Can nissan determine if you have been on track days therefore voiding warranty
5. What is AP
6. What is the Y-Pipe and can this be fitted without voiding warranty

Assuming any of the above does void warranty (which I am guessing it does) and you guys know this, are you all simply accepting this and if the gearbox etc goes bang you will just bite the bullet and pay up? Don't mean to be personal here and not looking to pry but reading through the forum it seems the large majority are upgrading the minute they get the car. Seems like a massive risk to me and potentially very expensive.. ?

thanks in advance for responses


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

1. What is COBB? what does it stand for

Cobb is the surname of Trey Cobb, CobbTuning.com - COBB Tuning Home Page

2. Do any upgrades performance wise e.g. Litchfield stage 1, 2 etc void warranty

All of them do.

3. Is it possible to have ECU upgrade reversed without the dealer knowing so that if you have a warranty issue you could get it done no problems.

No.

4. Can nissan determine if you have been on track days therefore voiding warranty

They can determine if you have been on track from the datalogs. Whether they void warranty depends on whether you've met their terms and conditions.

5. What is AP

Accessport - see answer 1.

6. What is the Y-Pipe and can this be fitted without voiding warranty

It removes the rear cat, leaving the two in the downpipes. Adds noise, sometimes drone, adds 0 to 20 HP depending on what results you look at. Voids warranty, but can be easily reversed, not detected.

The worry is failures that happen because of bad luck or manufacturing faults. However, Nissan can sometimes be reasonably sensible about fixing it even when the car has been modified, but there is no guarantee.

The performance that can be added can make the standard car seem pedestrian. The fastest are now running over 1000 HP and reaching 200mph from rest in one mile, 9 second quarter miles etc.

Some see it as a cheap Veyron or exotic worrier.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

swade said:


> ok here goes
> 
> 1. What is COBB? what does it stand for - COBB are the manufacturers of the AccessPort - AP
> 2. Do any upgrades performance wise e.g. Litchfield stage 1, 2 etc void warranty - any mods have the potential to invalidate warranty, whether a warranty claim would be denied remains to be seen. Engine and gearbox failures on modded cars have been repaired under warranty where it has been proved the mod was not connected to the failure.
> ...


As others will tell you, "you've got to pay to play!". All mods _could_ result in expensive failure, it's just whether they do or not. At the end of the day it's a 500hp car that has exceptional performance. If that's not enough for you, be it road or track use, then you'll have to mod. How much performance do you want?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Thistle beat me to it!


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

thistle\tazzmax thanks for responses that clears a lot up.

In terms of performance clearly 500bhp is ample, I am not into extreme tuning as I would want to use the car practically and not deal with the general issues that can start to creep in when you start to push the boundaries of the original manufacturer specs. However when you see adding another 50bhp can be achieved for as little £900 without major work and affect on the out of the box car, that becomes very tempting. 

The question of track days is an interesting one, the thought of buying this car and using it for the occassional trackday with fear of loosing warranty could be my major put off. It seems there maybe some confusion around this e.g datalogs, terms and conditions etc, is this something that is/are detailed in the owners handbook\warranty papers etc ? Is so perhaps I might discuss with a stealer to get the official line.

thanks again for the replies, it goes along way to making a decision on buying and is always better to hear it from actual owners rather than dealers with profit in mind.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

The reason I have not tracked mine so far is the cost of consumables, tyres & brake pads but more than that, it's the pre-trackday and post-track day inspections that I can't be dealing with. I haven't got the time to faff about driving from Stafffordshire to St Helens either side of a track day. The thought of all the wasted time kind of takes the edge of it for me. Fast road driving, early in the morning and pretty much under the radar is what does it for me. Yes, I know it's not as safe as doing it on a track but I'll take my chances.

As you say, for a small amount you can get a 10% power hike. If you didn't know, Thistle works very closely with Cobb and GTC on the AP tunes and his work is spoken very highly of. It is probably as safe as you can get for plug and play tuning. If I wasn't satisfied with the cars current performance I would have no hesitation in getting an AP.

Good luck.


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

TAZZMAXX said:


> The reason I have not tracked mine so far is the cost of consumables, tyres & brake pads but more than that, it's the pre-trackday and post-track day inspections that I can't be dealing with. I haven't got the time to faff about driving from Stafffordshire to St Helens either side of a track day. The thought of all the wasted time kind of takes the edge of it for me. Fast road driving, early in the morning and pretty much under the radar is what does it for me. Yes, I know it's not as safe as doing it on a track but I'll take my chances.
> 
> As you say, for a small amount you can get a 10% power hike. If you didn't know, Thistle works very closely with Cobb and GTC on the AP tunes and his work is spoken very highly of. It is probably as safe as you can get for plug and play tuning. If I wasn't satisfied with the cars current performance I would have no hesitation in getting an AP.
> 
> Good luck.


the "pre-trackday and post-track day inspections that I can't be dealing with. I haven't got the time to faff about driving from Stafffordshire to St Helens either side of a track day. " 

is this the terms and conds that Thistle alluded to? is this stipulated by Nissan ?


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

Yes, I don't track mine mainly because of the cost and worry about crashing an expensive car. I used to insure my Subaru to track it until its value dipped below £10k and then the excesses/cost of insurance made it less worth it, but track offs have cost some dearly. If someone brakes too late behind you and pushes you off the track, you'll struggle to claim against them too, so it only needs one idiot sharing the track with you, marshalls normally are good, but the cost is scary. If I wanted a track fix I'd go and hire a Caterham/Westfield/Atom/Radical type car.


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

Anything I have tracked before I have always insured for day so i know where you are coming from. 

wow, so Nissan have really laid down the law by the sounds of it and if they know you have been on the track and you do not get the pre and post inspection done, warranty void again.... looks like they have really tried to cover themselves. It starting to make more sense why people have been throwing caution to the wind and modding anyway as it seems unless you drive like miss daisy there will be a written clause that will invalidate the warranty somewhere.

Ive never had the luxury of a Fezza or lambo, does anyone know if these cars come with such tight restrictions... I am guessing so...very interesting. Cheers


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

swade said:


> the "pre-trackday and post-track day inspections that I can't be dealing with. I haven't got the time to faff about driving from Stafffordshire to St Helens either side of a track day. "
> 
> is this the terms and conds that Thistle alluded to? is this stipulated by Nissan ?


I think it is tenuous whether pre or post track inspections are required by the warranty, as it is clear that Nissan's warranty does not cover failure whilst on track, specifically.

However, I just do the post track inspections, specifically for the download taken, which shows how the car has been driven and transmission temperature reached ( the latter being what seems to interest the hpc's mostly.) It is also a defacto confirmation from Nissan that no maintenance is required following the track outing.

Doing this provides me with comfort should I need to call on the warranty, for a non-track failure, showing the car has been driven within it's performance envelope and not abused on track.

This also means my car is plugged into the Nissan mothership, on average, every 2 months, so it is closely monitored by them, should some big failure be brewing up.

Lots of folk don't bother with pre or post inspections, although I expect the latter has more bearing on the warranty.

Track day insurance around £400 for this car.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Nissan can tell whether you have been on track regardless of the temperatures. I have personally seen the datalogs downloaded from the Flick-R on my car and the temperature logs are just a small part of what is recorded. I saw a plot of revs vs acceleration vs brakes vs lateral G vs gear vs steering etc etc etc . Its obvious !

As for the before track and after track - Its not as bad as people make out. So long as the data is downloaded before and then after the HPC`s seem happy. I too will not be paying anyone to check my wheel nuts are tight etc.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Chris956 said:


> So long as the data is downloaded before and then after the HPC`s seem happy.


right, but I expect doing a download before, just makes it easier for Nissan to identify the chunk of data relevant to track action.


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

The pre post data capture would suggest that it just makes it easier for them to use it against you should a claim follow shortly after.

The plot thickens, like everything nothing is as clear cut as it first sounds. Essentially if I track day and all is fine and then the day after whilst driving to shops the gear box blows up I guess Nissan will assess based on the datalogs at that time. E.g if the logs clearly show a thrashing the day before plus a temperature exceeding nissan specified limits this could leave me on very shakey ground. But then where do you draw the line if the gearbox goes a week later and the gear box oil didnt exceed the specified temp etc etc 

£400 not bad, who was this with? I have used Moris in the past.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Just buy JDM, Get Litchfield to service and modify it and say bye bye to Mr Oppressive Nissan HPC !!!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

swade said:


> £400 not bad, who was this with? I have used Moris in the past.


Pace Ward; £398 to be precise




swade said:


> The pre post data capture would suggest that it just makes it easier for them to use it against you should a claim follow shortly after.
> 
> The plot thickens, like everything nothing is as clear cut as it first sounds. Essentially if I track day and all is fine and then the day after whilst driving to shops the gear box blows up I guess Nissan will assess based on the datalogs at that time. E.g if the logs clearly show a thrashing the day before plus a temperature exceeding nissan specified limits this could leave me on very shakey ground. But then where do you draw the line if the gearbox goes a week later and the gear box oil didnt exceed the specified temp etc etc


clearly, data records all the time, so I suspect the downloads are not the main issue

the key point is that, if you do the post track inspection, then Nissan have examined the car, identified any work required ( e.g. tranny fluid change etc), and sent you on your way

if something subsequently fails, then track use becomes largely irrelevant, but more importantly you acted in good faith as regards the warranty conditions

I'd be interested to know if used buyers are signing the Nissan 'disclaimer'


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

tracking your car is not a problem as far as Nissan are concerned. The warranty is void whilst tracking which is why they like you to pop in after for the data download and this effectively reinstates the warranty once the HPC tech has given it the once over.

Trackday insurance - if you have an annual policy with Pace ward , Kieth Micheals or competition car Insurance you can get Trackday cover for between £60 - £85 a day. Competition Car Insurance throw 5 free trackdays into their premium. Stand alone track cover with Moris or similiar works out about 1% the value of the cover for an excess of 10% of the value ( i.e. bloody expensive )


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

And dont forget the bloody excess if you do have an incident !!! sometimes as much as 10% of the value of the car !!


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

Zed Ed said:


> Pace Ward; £398 to be precise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Makes sense... if you show the car was checked after a trackday then you should be ok, in theory at least.

Re trackday insurance I will call Pace ward, Keith Micheals and look at competition car Insurance. I have always paid 1% with 10% excess which in hindsight is a bit much..

another newbie qs what is JDM ?

cheers
S


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

Anyone want to work out the cost of about an hour on track all in? Wouldn't surprise me if it is £1000 per hour even considering that a good part of that time you'll be cooling down in the pits.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Swade 

JDM is how to save yourself a bunch of cash and do what you want to YOUR car LOL

Thistle - I have over number of years (over 20) started to total the cost of a track day - when it got to the magic £1k I stopped!! LOL

1) Cost of track day
2) Cost of Track day insurance
3) Cost of Fuel (BIG in a GTR)
4) Cost of tyres, brakes, octane booster etc
5) Cost of time NOT on track either due to cool down period or some numpty putting it in the kitty litter
6) Cost of Oil Changes (one before and one after the track day)
7) Cost of Food and Accommodation (if playing away from home)
8)There are probably others !!!


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## hairyaardvark (Feb 7, 2010)

Zed Ed said:


> Pace Ward; £398 to be precise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.... regarding second hand buyers - I am one. Have taken the car to an HPC for a regular service since buying the car, and there has never been any mention of pre or post trackday servicing. So no, they are not making a point of this to used buyers


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

Steve said:


> Swade
> 
> JDM is how to save yourself a bunch of cash and do what you want to YOUR car LOL
> 
> ...



1) Open pit snett £150 (I am in Essex so and 1&1/2 drive for me)
2) Insurance £400 (based on above quote)
3) £300 if you includ fuel there and back?
4) Would you really need to replace all tyres after one track day. (last time I went I had to replace two fronts on an M3 but only because one came off the rim (not enough pressure at the beginning of the day me thinks). Clearly they were worn but had it not been for the ruined internal wall of the tyre it didn't need immediate replacement because of tread wear. The same for brakes. I know the GTR is a far superior car in terms of power over an E46 M3 but i would expect only a little more wear for the day?
5) Depends on the day I guess 
6) £200 approx
7) £30 assuming no stay over

Approx £1100 which is an expensive day out, but what a day out, you can't fault a track day in my opinion and it certainly gives you the chance to enjoy the car beyond any road use..

Still unlcear what JDM stands for


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Japanese domestic Market

Did 3 track outings on my last tyre set and 7000 conservative road miles

I'm not a hard track driver but I reckon it contributed to at least half my tyre wear




swade said:


> 1) Open pit snett £150 (I am in Essex so and 1&1/2 drive for me)
> 2) Insurance £400 (based on above quote)
> 3) £300 if you includ fuel there and back?
> 4) Would you really need to replace all tyres after one track day. (last time I went I had to replace two fronts on an M3 but only because one came off the rim (not enough pressure at the beginning of the day me thinks). Clearly they were worn but had it not been for the ruined internal wall of the tyre it didn't need immediate replacement because of tread wear. The same for brakes. I know the GTR is a far superior car in terms of power over an E46 M3 but i would expect only a little more wear for the day?
> ...


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

cheers, obvious as soon as someone tells you  

Ok, so the day did contribute to the wear as you 'd expect, but nowhere near a set for the day which is good to know...


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## avster (Sep 17, 2010)

I know this may sound really stupid but if I owned a Nissan GTR, I would pay £100-£150 or so and buy one of those Argos gifts that let you drive a Nissan GTR around a track x amount of times. If it was a nice day you could still thrash it quite a bit, eventhough you may have an instructor sitting with you, and then you don't have to worry about any costs which may be associated with taking your own car.

My brother in law recently did this in a Porsche Turbo and he paid £20 on the day for insurance which covers you for a certain amount, and had a great day out.


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

avster said:


> I know this may sound really stupid but if I owned a Nissan GTR, I would pay £100-£150 or so and buy one of those Argos gifts that let you drive a Nissan GTR around a track x amount of times. If it was a nice day you could still thrash it quite a bit, eventhough you may have an instructor sitting with you, and then you don't have to worry about any costs which may be associated with taking your own car.
> 
> My brother in law recently did this in a Porsche Turbo and he paid £20 on the day for insurance which covers you for a certain amount, and had a great day out.


Doesn't sound stupid at, makes a lot of sense, but in my experience those days are very restrictive on how you drive the car and how long you get, normally someone sitting in the passenger seat, brake brake brake brake etc etc 

At the end of the day its each to their own I guess, my only really concerns would be around warranty but as discussed above this may not be as bigger issue as I had originally thought.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

I reckon my annualised costs run at around £10-11k for this car, including depreciation, and that is decent luxury car club money.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

avster said:


> I know this may sound really stupid but if I owned a Nissan GTR, I would pay £100-£150 or so and buy one of those Argos gifts that let you drive a Nissan GTR around a track x amount of times. If it was a nice day you could still thrash it quite a bit, eventhough you may have an instructor sitting with you, and then you don't have to worry about any costs which may be associated with taking your own car.
> 
> My brother in law recently did this in a Porsche Turbo and he paid £20 on the day for insurance which covers you for a certain amount, and had a great day out.


For a novice those "red letter days " would probably be fun but to a trackday regular they are dull due to the massive restrictions put on how you can drive the cars and the lack of actual track time.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Zed Ed said:


> I reckon my annualised costs run at around £10-11k for this car, including depreciation, and that is decent luxury car club money.


But the car wouldnt be in your garage all the time when you want to use it at a moments notice and you have no mileage restriction


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## swade (Sep 21, 2010)

Chris956 said:


> But the car wouldnt be in your garage all the time when you want to use it at a moments notice and you have no mileage restriction


And you dont have to be a mind reader so that you can book it three months in advance so you can get to drive it at 6.30 am on lovely sunny Sunday morning when no other monkey is on the road.... Still 10k still hurts


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

plus I'd look like a [email protected] in a Bentley convertible

lol


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