# GTR Ring Slight off...



## davidd (Sep 28, 2011)

From Pistonheads PistonHeads Headlines - Liam Doran totals GT-R at the 'ring


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

What a mess, bloody lucky to walk away from that!

But no insurance ouch!!!!!


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## Gary&Amanda (Feb 10, 2011)

he was on facebook saying about the camera's that had been fitted


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Nasty, and not on the Ring proper either

From memory there is mucho gravel at the end of the GP straight.


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Wow did a proper job of that :bawling:


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Looking at the first picture and the collapsed roof I`m glad I was not in that car. Shame for a nice motor. Glad the owner was OK.


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## Gary&Amanda (Feb 10, 2011)

it was one of litchfields cars that liam was "borrowing"


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Blimey, that's quite some damage.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

David Yu and Arcam are there; maybe they will add some commentary


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## Karls (Jul 12, 2010)

OMG - glad he's OK but makes you want to weep for the car


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## majestic (May 3, 2010)

nice reg gno8


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Gary&Amanda said:


> it was one of litchfields cars that liam was "borrowing"


Hmmmmmmm Though I recognised it ...... Awkward !


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Quick update, the driver and passenger was very lucky but ok. It was his own car

More to follow.....


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Litchfield said:


> Quick update, the driver and passenger was very lucky but ok. It was his own car
> 
> More to follow.....


Lucky for you big boy ! If that was me sitting in that thing my head would deffo be sore if it was lucky enough to still be attached to my neck !!!


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## Gary&Amanda (Feb 10, 2011)

Litchfield said:


> Quick update, the driver and passenger was very lucky but ok. It was his own car
> 
> More to follow.....


sorry guys i was under the impression it was one of yours that liam was in


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## alloy (Apr 29, 2005)

I think the A pillars held up well


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

alloy said:


> I think the A pillars held up well


Do you :










Trouble is , in mine with a helmet on my head was rubbing the roof even with the seat in its lowest position and they look standard from the pic.


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## MiGTR (Jul 31, 2007)

The main thing is that he is ok, the rest will polish out.


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## Satan (Mar 8, 2012)

MiGTR said:


> The main thing is that he is ok, the rest will polish out.


Perhaps Valet magic could get it back to that "showroom shine" !


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

Ouch


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

For a car that landed on it's roof I think it has done remarkably well.


.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

I'm sure when I read that article this afternoon it made reference to the lack of insurance and now that appears to have been removed. Did anyone else see it?


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

TAZZMAXX said:


> I'm sure when I read that article this afternoon it made reference to the lack of insurance and now that appears to have been removed. Did anyone else see it?


Yes


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

All I can say is, having seen the car up close and chatted with Liam after the event, a) I don't think he or his passenger would have walked away from virtually any other car after the impacts that suffered, b) I will not be fitting a harness in my car.

Bloody lucky.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> All I can say is, having seen the car up close and chatted with Liam after the event, a) I don't think he or his passenger would have walked away from virtually any other car after the impacts that suffered, b) I will not be fitting a harness in my car.
> 
> Bloody lucky.


Exactly why I abandoned fitting harnesses in mine. Was he insured for the loss in the end ?


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

It's phewnearshitenselfen, in German. 
Glad both okay. **** the car, it's tin and rubber.


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## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> All I can say is, having seen the car up close and chatted with Liam after the event, a) I don't think he or his passenger would have walked away from virtually any other car after the impacts that suffered, b) I will not be fitting a harness in my car.
> 
> Bloody lucky.


Hmm... why no harness? Is it because the car doesn't have a roll cage installed?


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

No cage + Harness = Your body has no where to go in a crash like this. You are 'bolted' to the seat, so, yeah, roof caves in, your head will have only so little space to be pushed around, so to speak.

Same thing with doing a cage and using regular belts, bunch of extra metal solid bars that you will be tossed against.

Thats a bad crash, glad no one got too badly hurt!


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

This crash also goes some way to proving that these cars don't drive themselves.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

TAZZMAXX said:


> This crash also goes some way to proving that these cars don't drive themselves.


ah, my car has never performed as advertised; this must be why


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Brake failure?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> Brake failure?


Overconfidence?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> Overconfidence?


I was going to say Enthusiasm.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

CT17 said:


> I was going to say Enthusiasm.


I'll meet you half way - over-enthusiasm :thumbsup:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Mookistar said:


> Brake failure?


Sort of. Looks like he boiled the brake fluid through exuberant drifting beforehand and the pedal hit the floor at the worst possible moment.

Fair play to him for having the presence of mind and skill to deliberately flick it in backwards so the impact was from the back. Probably saved him and his passenger's life.
But then again, he should have backed off as soon as he felt the brakes going off...

Saw both of them today, a little sore, but fine. Quite amazing.

The barrier repair bill is going to be quite hefty, they were already working on it today and rumour was it was going to take a week to sort... :runaway:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

a Week!!!


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

OUCH!!!!!


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

really glad they are both ok. As someone said the car and barrier will fix. Big old chunk of cash but nothing compared with someone not walking away.


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## C7 JFW (Jun 25, 2006)

TAZZMAXX said:


> This crash also goes some way to proving that these cars don't drive themselves.


I think that's a very valid point


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

removed for personal reason..


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Chubby said:


> Not quite the story I was told David!!!
> 
> Rich.


But you don't work for Direct Line lol :smokin:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Chubby said:


> Not quite the story I was told David!!!
> 
> Rich.


From who? That's what Liam and his cousin told us. Don't know anyone better qualified to comment!

There's apparently video showing his brake lights firmly on from the proper braking point onwards, and yet no tyre marks on the tarmac or furrows in the gravel which suggests the tyres were indeed still rolling all the way.


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

removed for personal reasons...


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

removed for personal reasons


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

removed for personal reasons


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

Removed for personal reasons.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Chubby said:


> Not wanting to start an argument over any of this, but are you saying his cousin was aware that there were no brakes, they had a conversation at over 170mph as there heading for a barrier?
> 
> Seems very unlikely in my opinion.


No. Liam was aware there were no brakes.
Don't be coy, say what you heard and who you heard it from then?
I'm not arguing, just relaying what the actual driver told me first hand. Of course reality might have been different...


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

Removed for personal reasons


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## DRAGON (Nov 12, 2003)

He crashed, we all crash!! Hes a very accomplished driver, i say good luck to him, id rather try and fail than talk about it form my arm chair.


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

Removed for personal reasons.


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

Removed for personal reasons..


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Doesn't brake fluid only boil if there is moisture in it? Surely on a car that I suspect is less than a year old wouldn't boil and would be performance fluid straight fromthe factory anyway?


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

Removed for personal reasons


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

as above


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Yeah sorry what I should have put was moisture lowers the boiling point, but with a performance fluid it would be unlikely - more than likely disks/pads would overheat first


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## richy (Feb 6, 2005)

didnt he smash a rs4 up at the ring a couple of years back !
the driver he passed in the corvette said he hit the brakes and liam kept going never mentioned he was braking (lights on) but car not slowing down, surely the driver of the corvette would of noticed brake lights on a car but it not slowing down.
surely with his experience he should no better than to keep going flat out if he knew the brakes were going off ?


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

as above


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Chubby said:


> the facts are speaking for themselves at the mo. Brakes don't completely fail all of a sudden for no reason, and you don't travel nearly 300 meters and still cause that damage to a car if your doing 130 - 140 mph.. Rich.


Well you say that, but I once saw an episode of the A Team where that did atually happen, although in the end it turned out sdomeone had cut the pipes - has this been checked :smokin:


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

as above


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

removed for personal reasons


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Wow Chubby, have you been taking some of my pills !!!!


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

The GTR had Alcon 400mm discs and RS29 pads on and was fully serviced before the car was delivered. He could not have been happy with the car and used it to is FULL potential all day (hopefully there will be a video) with the accident happening at the end of the afternoon. 


There was no Corvette or GT3RS. The videos, which we have seen both, show him overtaking a new BMW VLN Race car and a Renault Clio on the start of the GP straight. The video from the trackside which his friend took shows him over taking the same cars and the brakes lights come on as he goes over the crest at the end of the straight.

We tried to get hold of the interior footage from the Clio (the closest car but still some 75m back) the next day for our video but the owner apparently had computer problems and all footage from the day was lost. Both Liam and ourselves would love to get any footage.. 

Iain


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Given the heavy damage to the vehicle and the fortunate fact that the crash did not result in any severe injuries to the driver and the passnger, I'v got to say the GTR is a tough and a well built car.

Landing on its roof and the A-pillar seems to have absorbed the impact very well.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

I wonder what the repair bill to the armco etc is going to be?!!!!


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

MIKEGTR said:


> I wonder what the repair bill to the armco etc is going to be?!!!!


depends if they implement a fixed charge per metre i suppose?


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

A lot !!!!


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

When I last went we were told E1K per metre....


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

I have been involved in many post accident situations in Motor Racing, and it is almost unknown to get 100% consensus of how it happened and who caused it and who saw what etc.

Just be thankful no one was hurt and IMHO this thread should go no further otherwise it could prejudice certain innocent parties/ individuals.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

That surely is beyond economical repair or non-repairable even.

quite possibly a cat B ?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

tonigmr2 said:


> When I last went we were told E1K per metre....


Toni, Control, Alt, 4 = € :thumbsup:


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## james1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Looks like chubbys sobered up.....


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

We are just thankful he got to enjoy the his 25th birthday. We have seen some talented drivers in our time and he is right up there with the very best and a lovely guy to go with it.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Litchfield said:


> We are just thank full he got to enjoy the his 25th birthday. We have seen some talented drivers in our time and he is right up where with the very best and a lovely guy to go with it.


Let me evaluate the above if I can.




Forget about the car tbh, he should be thankful he's in one piece and came out unscaved.


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## NI-GTR (Jun 25, 2008)

Nigel-Power said:


> Let me evaluate the above if I can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You do post some shit sometimes. Talk about stating the bleedin' obvious!


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

play nice please children.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> Sort of. Looks like he boiled the brake fluid through exuberant drifting beforehand and the pedal hit the floor at the worst possible moment.


How does drifting boil brake fluid? When I've been drifting on trackdays or on dedicated drift days/tracks it's been much less hard on the brakes than normal circuit driving. 

I've driven the GP track a few times and it sounds to me like he simply went into the corner far far too fast and braked far too late. It is a difficult corner to judge and it is really really tight.


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

Never seen anyone come out of a wreck like that unscaved. Unscathed yes, but unscaved no.:runaway:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Guy said:


> How does drifting boil brake fluid? When I've been drifting on trackdays or on dedicated drift days/tracks it's been much less hard on the brakes than normal circuit driving.
> 
> I've driven the GP track a few times and it sounds to me like he simply went into the corner far far too fast and braked far too late. It is a difficult corner to judge and it is really really tight.


That's purely unwarranted speculation on your part, Guy and directly contradicts what Liam himself said.
Why doubt him in the absence of any conflicting evidence?

I don't know the chap and hadn't met him before this event, but have no reason to doubt his word.

I have seen the pics of the lack of tyre marks and undisturbed gravel though and doubt a driver of his experience and skill would have simply misjudged such a critical corner having taken it successfully all day.

The drifting comment was merely to illustrate that he was apparently driving very hard before the incident with a lot of sliding, not that drifting instantly = brake fluid boiling.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

when did unscaved become a word?

Should I remove this in advance for personal reasons?

I personally am a grammar/spelling/punctuation snob.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Adamantium said:


> I personally am a grammar/spelling/punctuation snob.


Really? You should go back and proof read your hundreds of iPad-mauled posts then.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> That's purely unwarranted speculation on your part, Guy and directly contradicts what Liam himself said.
> Why doubt him in the absence of any conflicting evidence?


It's the internet, I'm giving my opinion, just like you do.

You know that corner and straight well, it's very fast and about the tightest corner at the end of a pit straight you'll get (maybe except the Monza chicane).

I find it hard to believe that a GTR with 400mm Alcons and trackpads would have suddenly got brake-fade that quickly. Unless there was a catastrophic failure (and Litchfield say it was all new and serviced that day), then it's a case of over-enthusiasm.

There is only about 50 metres of runoff from the hairpin to the barriers, so braking 50-75 metres too late at 160mph would easily explain it.


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

LOL! Pretty tricky to type a "v" instead of "th" vough eh?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Guy said:


> It's the internet, I'm giving my opinion, just like you do.
> 
> You know that corner and straight well, it's very fast and about the tightest corner at the end of a pit straight you'll get (maybe except the Monza chicane).
> 
> ...


I wasn't giving my opinion, I was relaying directly what I was told by the person who should know best, the driver. Of course he could be lying, but why assume that?
He's won two championships more than most armchair experts on here. Yes he crashes a lot, but I doubt he lies about why he crashes.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> Yes he crashes a lot







Colin McRae had his fair share of crashes but he was still a fair talent.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> Yes he crashes a lot, but I doubt he lies about why he crashes.


It's simple either he mis-judged and braked late or Alcon/Litchfield don't know what they are doing - are you saying that Alcon brakes don't work?


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## Apex trackdays (Mar 15, 2011)

Surely all brakes can fail if they are really pushed though. Not a reflection on Alcon as they are certainly one of the best out there, but the car is heavy and you need to brake from very high speeds at the Ring. How does the traction control work on the GTR? Does it apply the brakes when detecting slip? If so, then they will be working alot harde.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Guys I am mindful that if this crash were more serious we'd have closed the thread by now to stop the speculating. I don't believe it is useful to speculate on the causes of crashes, we weren't there, we don't know what happened and it's not helpful to second guess when we don't have all the information.

Just a bear it in mind please.:thumbsup:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Here's a thought - perhaps and only perhaps, it was driver error and his ego (i know it is rare for a racing driver to have one) was to big to admit that he made a mistake.

Lets be fair, brakes don't just totally go, you get a feeling through the pedal on the corners preceeding - imo he's lying, for whatever reason, be it insurance, be it that the car may not have been his and he had to justify the off or be it that he doesn't want the tag of someone who drives like a fool on a public track day - just my opinion of course


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I can't see it's so incredibly important that several people that were not even there need to speculate and argue about why he crashed.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

CT17 said:


> I can't see it's so incredibly important that several people that were not even there need to speculate and argue about why he crashed.


Its discussion - like if there is a F1 incident its always good to discuss whose fault it was


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> Its discussion - like if there is a F1 incident its always good to discuss whose fault it was


OK, it was the drivers fault. :chuckle:
Most crashes are, so the balance of probability points to that.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

CT17 said:


> OK, it was the drivers fault. :chuckle: Most crashes are, so the balance of probability points to that.


We could have saved 7 pages of waffle lol


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Guy said:


> It's simple either he mis-judged and braked late or Alcon/Litchfield don't know what they are doing - are you saying that Alcon brakes don't work?


I repeat, I am not "saying" anything, merely passing on what the person who was there told me. You were not in the car, and (thankfully, neither was I). Our opinions are irrelevant.

But just to humour you, are you saying it is physically impossible for a driver to push Alcon (or any other) brakes beyond the point where they won't work?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

David.Yu said:


> But just to humour you, are you saying it is physically impossible for a driver to push Alcon (or any other) brakes beyond the point where they won't work?


Pretty rare for a pedal to go flat to the floor wothout any prior warning of failure! Especially after a long straight where you would have thought the brakes/fluid would have time too cool


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Again, the selective reading is strong with some of you. Back in post #35 I said "But then again, he should have backed off as soon as he felt the brakes going off..."

Nobody's saying it wasn't his fault (even him), but he claims (and I personally believe him having spoken to him and his cousin in person, unlike the rest of you) that he didn't simply forget to brake like some of you seem to be claiming.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David, you've done a lot of trackdays, like I have, in a wide variety of cars and you know as well as I do that whilst most cars can be made to fade, they do so with some warning and the fade is progressive. Whenever I've started to experience brake fade (and the stock GTR brakes are a good example) it gets progressively worse over several corners and you back-off to account for that. I find it impossible to believe that a set of Alcons would have offered no fade and then suddenly not worked at all in the following corner.

As for 'racing drivers' lying, yes they do, I'm not accusing in this case, but there are many examples of drivers whose egos refuse to allow them to believe they were at fault and find a way of blaming the car.

For all those that criticise debate, hello this is the internet, it's what forums are for, 98% of posts in any given thread are by people who have no experience, relevent information or were at anything being discussed.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

If I was the driver I would ask Nissan for the Flickr data as that should shed some light on what was going on before/during the crash. Speed, G-force and other data would be useful in post crash analysis.

Anders


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

I am close to locking this thread, so stop with the personal stuff guys.


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## OldBob (Oct 18, 2010)

Doing the armchair analysis is good, YoungBob chipped in with:

"I'll show you where and why he crashed on GT5 at some point this weekend (The pit straight is flat until the breaking zone for the hairpin, which is downhill, if you don't break before you're ****ed), its really easy to misjudge it as you'll easily be going (if flat out) 160-170) "

..and we're there first week of April to test the theories


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Right that is it, next junk reply gets points and the thread gets locked.


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## OldBob (Oct 18, 2010)

Toni, What did I say wrong?


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Probably nothing, some posts get chopped for continuity, sorry chap.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Guy said:


> David, you've done a lot of trackdays, like I have, in a wide variety of cars and you know as well as I do that whilst most cars can be made to fade, they do so with some warning and the fade is progressive. Whenever I've started to experience brake fade (and the stock GTR brakes are a good example) it gets progressively worse over several corners and you back-off to account for that. I find it impossible to believe that a set of Alcons would have offered no fade and then suddenly not worked at all in the following corner.
> 
> As for 'racing drivers' lying, yes they do, I'm not accusing in this case, but there are many examples of drivers whose egos refuse to allow them to believe they were at fault and find a way of blaming the car.
> 
> For all those that criticise debate, hello this is the internet, it's what forums are for, 98% of posts in any given thread are by people who have no experience, relevent information or were at anything being discussed.


Did you not bother reading my post directly above yours? Where did anyone say there weren't any symptoms of the brakes beginning to wilt before the fateful corner?

I'm all up for debate, but it isn't one when one party just makes up their mind that they're right and can't even be bothered to read the other party's posts...


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

guys I've read nagtroc back and forth and seen even aftermarket fluids boilover ... do you know how hot the brakes even get on a full weight gtr... 3800lbs is HEAVY! aftermarket brake get hot too.

litchfield we need those alcon brake cooling solutions to cool to the center of the brake rotors asap! when's the eta? any news on that setup?


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Being dispationate, and purist, all those persons who don't even own a GT-R, who believe that the electronics make the driving experience safe and clinical, must think again. The Nurburgring is a killer, proven many many times. Those two were very very lucky to walk away from that one. The car, not so.

Arguing over this and that won't change it. And as David rightly said, whatever the braking system, or other, it will always have its limit, and will always need considerate use.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> Where did anyone say there weren't any symptoms of the brakes beginning to wilt before the fateful corner?


If there were symptoms of brake fade then I would have expected him to slow down because as a 'pro' he'd know brake fade only gets worse. If there was brake-fade and he didn't slow then it's a driver error.

I've seen plenty of people outbrake themselves at that corner, especially when watching the 24hrs race at that precise corner, by people who should know better.

Unless the brakes failed entirely eg a burst brake pipe, then it's driver error IMHO.

I'm sure once Litchfield have had a look at the car they'll be able to better comment on whether there was any mechanical failure.


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## Lex DakarDatsun (May 22, 2002)

Liam's account of it here

The real story behind Liam Doran's GT-R crash at the Nürburgring - SkiddMark

Vid of the previous action

http://youtu.be/ACP8PJsGw-g


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

What a load of tosh, he stated he did a 7 minute lap of the Ring ... absolute bollax and with just 5 previous laps! :lamer:

Don't get me started on the brakes!


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

Arcam said:


> What a load of tosh, he stated he did a 7 minute lap of the Ring ... absolute bollax and with just 5 previous laps! :lamer:
> 
> Don't get me started on the brakes!


I'm so glad someone said this... LOL

Rich.


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## Robbie 733 (Feb 25, 2005)

"Anyway we went round there, I did a 7-minute lap which in most people’s eyes is a really fast lap – standard GT-R times are 7 and a half minutes so I was happy with that and seeing how I’ve only been round there five times."


Eddie you're so wrong, he's a Driving God !!! :chuckle:


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

<Where the brakes have got so hot around the ‘Ring lap and the distance I haven’t braked for has been so long that everything has cooled down and reduced in size, so they’ve basically stopped working.>

Eh? If they work when they're cold and work when they're really hot, I'd guess they should work at any temp in between. Why doesn't he just publish the footage of him braking that he refers to? He's obviously a decent driver, but he's not makig himself look too clever at the mo.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Is the link still working, I get 'operation aborted'


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## manjit (Dec 17, 2009)

7 min lap @ the ring, impossible? No (7mins 59secs) possible yes after 5 laps not for me but maybe a slightly more accomplished driver.
BUT, I was under the impression that the Nordsclief and GP circuit was combined into 1, so how would it be possible to time yourself, or am I wrong please correct if so. Maybe the exit and entry points are close to each other.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

The guy is obviously way more talented than I'll ever be behind the wheel of a car but why won't he admit it's his fault? 'It wasn't my fault' he says, not anticipating brake fade. If he's a professional driver, surely you'd expect a bit of intuition where issues like brake fade come into play?

People can't seem to admit their own failings any more.


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## JIMBO GTR (Dec 1, 2009)

I agree with Arcam, absolute load of Bull **** !! Can some one really contradict themselves that many times in one interview?? 
1. I believe there are 4 corners (curves) before the start of the GP, and the brakes worked for the corner before the GP straight?? (You would be going faster down the Ring straight than the GP straight!) 
2. The Ring is not heavy on Brakes 
3. He says he is aggressive but had to back off, as he does not know the track ... (but still managed a 7min lap??... (Does that include the GP, a lap of the car park and a quick fill up at the garage?) 
He is obviously a very good driver and probably did save his and his cousin's life but for my money something does not add up.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

manjit said:


> 7 min lap @ the ring, impossible? No (7mins 59secs) possible yes after 5 laps not for me but maybe a slightly more accomplished driver.
> BUT, I was under the impression that the Nordsclief and GP circuit was combined into 1, so how would it be possible to time yourself, or am I wrong please correct if so. Maybe the exit and entry points are close to each other.


The timing could be done with just 50 meters of the Nordschleife missing as you exit the GP circuit @ the end of the old pit straight and enter the GP circuit at the start of the old pit straight (Turn 13), the time between the 2 points would be only a couple or 3 seconds max.


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## manjit (Dec 17, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> The guy is obviously way more talented than I'll ever be behind the wheel of a car but why won't he admit it's his fault? 'It wasn't my fault' he says, not anticipating brake fade. If he's a professional driver, surely you'd expect a bit of intuition where issues like brake fade come into play?
> 
> People can't seem to admit their own failings any more.


Have to agree here, even the greats such as Schu and Senna have made mistakes so no shame in making them.

As for the brake fade bla bla, ive been on both the GP track and Nordsclife individually and in my view a single lap on the GP track is far harder on the brakes than the Nordsclife. So if he came directly from the Nordsclife onto the GP pit straight then I dont see how the brakes would have suffered everyone else was in the same situation.

Looking at his videos and the way he was driving on the GP circuit was silly to say the least and he proberly did boil something Brake fluid pads whatever etc, if he was ONLY on the GP circuit and it would have been more likely that he had no pedal at that point.
Otherwise he just braked too late, easily done at the end of the pit straight

Anyway I will stop :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:ing


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Clearly Nissan need to replace the rather sophisticated Suzuki and Tanaka, with a fat oeuf 

Priceless

How can you spin a positive story out of this.

Jimbo; you just back from Spa?


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## manjit (Dec 17, 2009)

Arcam said:


> The timing could be done with just 50 meters of the Nordschleife missing as you exit the GP circuit @ the end of the old pit straight and enter the GP circuit at the start of the old pit straight (Turn 13), the time between the 2 points would be only a couple or 3 seconds max.


:thumbsup:That clears my confusion up


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## JIMBO GTR (Dec 1, 2009)

Ha! no Zed ... but will be there in June , work permiting (with Cat) .. then Oct for the double


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

JIMBO GTR said:


> Ha! no


Ok; next:chuckle:


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## CATDT (Feb 20, 2007)

JIMBO GTR said:


> Ha! no Zed ... but will be there in June , work permiting (with Cat) ..


Oh Goodie :runaway:

I've got space in a garage if you want to share .... we need to talk soon if you are going to be with us :thumbsup:

Jo


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

CATDT said:


> Oh Goodie :runaway:
> 
> I've got space in a garage if you want to share .... we need to talk soon if you are going to be with us :thumbsup:
> 
> Jo


I thought you'd offer Liam Doran the space first:chuckle:


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## JIMBO GTR (Dec 1, 2009)

ok Jo , give me a buzz tomorrow


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## CATDT (Feb 20, 2007)

TAZZMAXX said:


> I thought you'd offer Liam Doran the space first:chuckle:


I'm sure we couldn't teach him anything 

Jimbo ... I'll try ... but you'll have to forgive the voice. 

Jo


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## JIMBO GTR (Dec 1, 2009)

look forward to it Jo.


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## CATDT (Feb 20, 2007)

JIMBO GTR said:


> look forward to it Jo.




Jo


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

I was gonna stay off this, but **** it...

...On the day, they denied there was a Corvette on the video at the time of the accident. Then they denied the video was running at all at the time of the accident. Cover up from the outset.

Threads like this are shite because the ONLY person who really knows what happened is the driver and what he's saying is, as Arcam politely put it, tosh. He ****ed up. End of.

If he did a 7 minute lap, I'd love to see it, but then they probably didn't have the camera running, or maybe they did but there was a magical disappearing Skunkworks Corvette in it, and if they didn't have the camera running how do they know since there's no timing on a track day?


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Is it any wonder? .....


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Zed Ed said:


> Clearly Nissan need to replace the rather sophisticated Suzuki and Tanaka, with a fat oeuf
> 
> Priceless
> 
> ...


Best post of the thread - the guy may be alright behind the wheel, but i think hes definitely more full of of bull**** than he is talent


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

errrrrrr....................................


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

well said Arcam. we all knew he was talking bollox... 7 min lap. hahahahahahah. 

he has a fierce reputation for:-

a) crashing a lot 

b) talking bollox!!!

money cant buy you talent!


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## MiGTR (Jul 31, 2007)

Lex DakarDatsun said:


> Liam's account of it here
> 
> The real story behind Liam Doran's GT-R crash at the Nürburgring - SkiddMark


Has anyone had a problem with that link throwing up a Trojan/Virus warning?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

MiGTR said:


> Has anyone had a problem with that link throwing up a Trojan/Virus warning?


I only managed to open it once but couldn't do it again. It didn't really tell us much other than his 7 minute Ring time (fu cough).

In the video Moleman put up, he doesn't seem too bothered by what happened. Good publicity for all concerned and a raised profile for the chunky lad. Does that sound cynical?


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

I don't know the guy, but from watching that video, my mind is made up. He ain't ever getting within 50 miles of my car!


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## Austin (Sep 30, 2010)

MiGTR said:


> Has anyone had a problem with that link throwing up a Trojan/Virus warning?


More than that, it marked all the files and folders on my C drive as hidden and wiped all the windows start menu entries.  I don't think I've lost anything but it has messed about with stuff. Kaspersky didn't catch it in time.


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## RadoGTST (Jul 5, 2010)

moleman said:


> Is it any wonder? .....



Thanks for posting this, that statement under his name at the end sums it all up nicely


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Nice little vid and good to see he is well. As above the statement under his name says it all. That fella has got balls of steel. Crashing aside he's obviously got talent and I enjoy watching his vids opcorn:


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Anyone can get good if they can afford to crash their cars learning


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Very true lol. Got to say winning a Gold at X Games isn't easy as there's plenty of talented drivers there. But again some of them have had some spectacular crashes. Watching those events is always entertaining.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Arcam said:


> What a load of tosh, he stated he did a 7 minute lap of the Ring ... absolute bollax and with just 5 previous laps! :lamer:
> 
> Don't get me started on the brakes!


Hi Eddie

Whats up with your brakes ? fancy a track day at Rockingham on Easter Saturday ?

S


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## chrisneeves (Apr 7, 2010)

I was going to stay out of this thread, but can't help myself, especially as i travelled over with Liam and spent a few days with him, and hopefully can address some of the questions and statements which people who were not their have made.

I can't believe the cr*p which has been written about him on the various forums. I suppose it's par for the course though if you are in the public eye. Yes he is a bit lairy, and clearly messed up big time, but hav'nt we all at some point, and people who race cars for a living and are successful do not get to the top without pushing the boundary's.

At the end of the day he is 25 year old professional driver and still has a lot to learn. He races in Rallycross, and believe or not this form of motorsport has almost as many knocks as banger racing, so it is a fact that you can type "crasher doran" in the www and get lots of crash video's should not really be a surprise. The fact that his father was a legendary driver and has been very successful should not be held against him either. Motorsport is expensive and whoever has the biggest wallet gets the most opportunity's. Look at any starting grid in any championship at a pro level and it is littered with family backing or can be traced back to family heritage. So what if he can afford to write his car off, that's his business. Thankfully he walked away, and no one else was involved. There were at least 3 other incidents at the ring on that track day, all of which wrote off the cars and closed the circuit, not that anyone gives a t***.

In terms of the showboating, that was just for fun for his own video. He was not driving like that all the time. That would be stupid.

He removed all of the cameras before he went out for that session so the footage could be downloaded. In fact i borrowed one of his cameras and fitted to my car before he went out again. So there is no footage of the crash from his car.

There might be some footage from another car which was on the main straight at the time of the accident, but that is not in circulation, not with Liam, and probably gone for good. It did exist though, adn i am sure will find it's way into the public domain at some point. So Liam is not holding onto footage, and is not lying as has been intimated elsewhere.

The only person who will know what happened is Liam as he was driving the car. All that is known is that he entered the main straight of the GP circuit after a lap of Nordshliefe, braked probably too late (there is camera phone footage somewhere of his brake lights coming on) not scrubbing off much speed, spinning before the gravel trap, and then the rest is history. Watch any race at the Nurburg GP circuit, and that corner is where most racers run out of talent... Personally i think he went in too hot, probably had some brake fade but not complete failure, and spun it on the marbles instead of going in front first. That's basically what he said anyway. Ran out of talent at that point, but still far more than i will ever have. 7min xx lap ? i very much doubt this. If he did do a decent lap i am sure when he gets time it will appear on his video channel.


I doubt there is anything here which is actually new news, it just winds me up how people jump on the bandwagen and just make stuff up.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

+1 
Totally agree


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## CasperBxl (May 17, 2010)

*Virus/worm/Torjan on page with interview*



MiGTR said:


> Has anyone had a problem with that link throwing up a Trojan/Virus warning?


Yep, my Bitdefender came-up in a micro second of clicking the link.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Steve said:


> Hi Eddie
> 
> Whats up with your brakes ? fancy a track day at Rockingham on Easter Saturday ?
> 
> S


My brakes work just fine thanks Steve, maybe on the Rockingham day but this thread is not the place to chat about it, I will give you a bell or drop a note.


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> Clearly Nissan need to replace the rather sophisticated Suzuki and Tanaka, with a fat oeuf


:bowdown1::bowdown1::bowdown1:


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

he's just a kid. acts like it too. whatever.
also bragging about your 7min lap is childish especially without proof or letting us know what configuration the track was on cause while the ring time is about 7:20 for the stock gtr it was probably a different config than your run and who knows if you ran the correct standards for that lap time... iirc sport auto came up with it? there is a pdf in the wild that shows running start position and speed and end etc.


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Totally agree with your comments Chris. The fact he is now getting flack because he was reported in saying he did a 7min lap is a shame 

Regardless of what may or may not have happened to cause the accident  he probably needs to gain more experience with the Media, as these remarks would appear to be taken out of context slightly. 

I have just spoken to him about another matter and then asked about the interview. What he actually said to the Journalist was that on the lap before his accident he was really pushing around the Nordschleife and it felt like he must have done a 7min lap. I’m sure this would have been an 'off the cuff' remark in his normal brash and excitable (and endearing  ) manner and was not statement of exact fact. He had asked me in the morning what a good time around the Ring was for a standard car and I said the press had got into the 7mins with Ecuteks standard JDM GTR and Nissan had done a 7:20 so he would have had that in his mind when asked. At no point during the time we were there did he say he was timing himself which would have been easily to do in the GTR.

As for the footage that I have seen (along with journalists like Chris Harris and others) from within the Clio that he over took, I have tried to get this as it would have made a fitting ending and generated tremendous interest in the video which was cut short  We watched it that evening in Pistenklause and I bought it from the Clio owners by the way of buying their whole table meals and drinks for the evening. When we plugged in the memorystick back at our base there was nothing on it and when we approached them the next day they said they had accidently deleted it. It sounds ridiculous I know, but that is the unfortunate truth which can be verified by Chris Harris etc - if people are actually that interested. 

We are still on the lookout for any pictures or video of the accident and I will be asking the circuit if they have any footage from CCTV :blahblah: 

So here we are 10 pages into discussing 25year old’s misfortune, you have got to love the internet :lamer: 

Regards

Iain


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## AndyBrew (Feb 2, 2011)

You had to buy their dinner and drinks, the little scroats!!


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Well it was more of a bribe on my part to get the film  They didn't seem like the type to screw us over (they had no reason to) I just think it was one of those days where the only thing that went right was Liam walked away unhurt. To top it off we over heard two of the guys sat at the table as they where leaving laughing because they only sat their because there was no more spaces, they'd never even met the other group before!  lol


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## AndyBrew (Feb 2, 2011)

Litchfield said:


> To top it off we over heard two of the guys sat at the table as they where leaving laughing because they only sat their because there was no more spaces, they'd never even met the other group before!  lol


Oh dear LOL!


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## manjit (Dec 17, 2009)

Iain next time im down your ends I'll have some dinner
+ some red wine


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## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Bloody hell !!!!! Lucky man...


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Photos = Pizza 
Video = Meal for 2


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Litchfield said:


> Totally agree with your comments Chris. The fact he is now getting flack because he was reported in saying he did a 7min lap is a shame
> 
> Regardless of what may or may not have happened to cause the accident  he probably needs to gain more experience with the Media, as these remarks would appear to be taken out of context slightly.
> 
> ...


He should have just givin David Yu the interview 

its publicity regardless. two weeks ago i didnt know who the guy was, now i know a little bit about him. whatever. he will learn as he grows, if he wants to that is.

if he's lucky maybe someone will sponsor him a build for a new gt-r


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

mindlessoath said:


> He should have just givin David Yu the interview


Well I sorta did interview him informally and reported what he said on here, but got shot down in flames... :nervous:


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## Chubby (Mar 13, 2008)

David.Yu said:


> but got shot down in flames... :nervous:


If that was the impression I gave I fully apologies as it was not my intention.

Rich.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Iain, there is software available to undelete files from drives. May be worth checking that stick again.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Chubby said:


> If that was the impression I gave I fully apologies as it was not my intention.
> 
> Rich.


No probs. :thumbsup:


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

chrisneeves said:


> All that is known is that he entered the main straight of the GP circuit after a lap of Nordshliefe, braked probably too late (there is camera phone footage somewhere of his brake lights coming on) not scrubbing off much speed, spinning before the gravel trap, and then the rest is history.


Glad to hear that the truth pretty much reflects whats been posted by just about everyone on here.


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

Arcam said:


> What a load of tosh, he stated he did a 7 minute lap of the Ring ... absolute bollax and with just 5 previous laps! :lamer:
> 
> Don't get me started on the brakes!


Bit late to this thread, but i have to agree with Eddie.

I've completed about 160 laps of Nordschleife in various cars & was fortunate enough to do Scuderia Hanseat 4yrs back, which incorporates the F1 track with Nordschleife, so know you'd be hard pushed to arrive at the corner concerned with total brake failure (unless total mechanical failure).

Anyone who reckons they've done a sub 7 minute lap in a Stage 2/3 GT-R with only 5 previous laps under their belt is dillusional. I don't know the guy concerned & likely never will, but i have to agree with the more negative opinions that it was purely driver error/bad judgement & then a reluctance to admit this post event.

Naturally glad no-one was badly hurt & it's just a big bill.


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