# How much power from an N/A RB engine???



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

I was wondering how much power some N/A RB cars are running out there (Skylines, Cefiros, Glorias, Stageas ex . . . . .)
Had a discussion with a guy who owns a 350HP Z33 RS and he kept bashing the the RBs for being just good with Turbos ,but N/A just plain crap . . . . a reason why Nissan finally got away from them bringing the migty V6s again to life . . blablablabla . . .:blahblah:

So please somebody just post me a link to some 500HP N/A RB30, so that I can shut up that bloke . .


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

You may be waiting for quite a while. I've seen a few people try and get decent power from them and highest I have seen so far is not much over 250hp which is pretty poor. VQ engines demolish RBs in terms of being able to make power NA. I'd love to be proven wrong though!

I've seen more powerful NA L28s lol


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Dont know how big the ports are on an RB really in comparison to others, but thats usually the big disadvantage engines that was designed from the outset to be turbocharged, as in turbo form small ports are useful, but not good when n/a.

But then I cant think of any that cant still make 150bhp per litre when worked enough in n/a form.

And with the RB26s ability to rev WAY higher than most engines, I think, at the massive expense of low down power, a screamer RB should be able to do at least 150 per litre.


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

If I remember, Top Secret's Demo R32 had an OS Giken RB30 on Throttle Body before they drop in the VQ35 in it. 
I can't remember what power it made, but I think it was only around the 300PS mark, and it didn't rev that high.

End of the day, the engine was designed as a turbo engine... big cast iron block, small displacement, and all the lots... 
His arguement is just like we are saying the VQ is good in NA format, but then it suck in Turbo format as there isn't any 1000 bhp turbocharged VQ around yet...


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## nustad (May 17, 2005)

*NA RB*

Howdy,

Power is modest with NA RBs - my RB25DE with exhaust and filter did 100kw at the treads. I know of one RB30 with RB25DE head and Greddy plenum, headwork, exhaust etc and I think it was 180kw at the treads.

Of course different dynos will yield different results......in my R32 GTS coupe it was a lovely combination - nice low down torque, rev happy and the best sounding engine I have owned (had extractors, 2.25 inch exhaust with HKS muffler).

I enjoyed driving it just as much as my GTR even though it had less power.

They are quite a heavy lump though so as a motor for conversions the power vs weight equation probably doesn't stack up compared to a turbo version.

Still a cool cross flow motor that has potential.

Cheers

Glenn


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I've seen just over 400hp from a N/A RB30 with a pretty big budget (not one built here, but I know of it)

Rob


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Nocturnal said:


> End of the day, the engine was designed as a turbo engine... big cast iron block, small displacement, and all the lots...
> His arguement is just like we are saying the VQ is good in NA format, but then it suck in Turbo format as there isn't any 1000 bhp turbocharged VQ around yet...


You couldn't be much further from the truth.

There are "street cars" running around with around 1000hp turbo VQs, there is one in Oz running >700hp @ wheels on pump gas. I have heard of >1500hp VQ35 drag cars, Heat Treatments are shooting to crack 2000hp with theirs.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

but those VQs must go through far more prep than an RB. Cylinders MUST be sleeved. Other stuff. It's not like an RB where you bolt on bigger turbos, crank up the fuel and go.


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## zell (Nov 23, 2007)

turbo is fun, N/A is not, just tell him that and shut him up 

if he doesn't understand tell him to find street drivable 500hp N/A lump with 3.5 or lesser displacement


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Who cares about an NA car when you can have a turbocharged one :chuckle:


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

head work, cams, balanced to 10,000rpm, and raise the compression ratio to 12:1. That'd make for an interesting RB26!


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## plumwerks (Dec 15, 2006)

VQs seem to require mega bucks to get them to accept turbos,they seem to be crapping themselves all over the place,a few here in Montreal too.
Just have a look on utube,blow a little breeze into them and they crap themselves,unless serious mega stuff has been put into the bottom end.


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

How much power are you talking about? There are ones running around with >400whp on standard internals without problems. Guess it depends partly on your tuners as well.

Really its completely irrelevant anyway - this is about NA, and RB engines don't hold a flame to much in terms of NA power making ability.... hell plenty of 4cylinder Honda VTEC motors will blow RBs out of the water, let alone a late model larger displacement variable valve V6!


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

Lith said:


> How much power are you talking about? There are ones running around with >400whp on standard internals without problems. Guess it depends partly on your tuners as well.
> 
> Really its completely irrelevant anyway - this is about NA, and RB engines don't hold a flame to much in terms of NA power making ability.... hell plenty of 4cylinder Honda VTEC motors will blow RBs out of the water, let alone a late model larger displacement variable valve V6!


Didn't know that the VQ had that much development already... But then now that I think back the Esprits are were running around 500PS in the early stage of the Z life...

With that said, are you sure you have a VQ running 400whp on "standard" internal. From what I know, the Conrod in the VQ is the weakpoint, and went boosted, it is the first thing to brake and go right out the block.

I am sure there are more development now, as alot of my info is quite old; and the VQ had been around for quite a long time now.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Boost dont kill rods much, det and revs do. They weak, but mapped right and well over [email protected] is doable from em.


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## Benji406V6Coupé (Aug 20, 2007)

VQ is an awesome engine NA and was devloped to run as such.

RB is an awesome engine blown and was developed to run as such.

Turn his argument on its head tonight down the boozer and tell him the VQ is week as a kitten when pushed by a tubby. 

Swings and roundabouts.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

I used to see the same thing of the SR20 forums. Very few people would make big power N/A SR20s. With the RB I'd guess that it's more extreme as there are many turbo variants so why bother with N/A etc etc etc

I also bloody well hope that a 3.5 litre VQ would produce more power than a 2.5 litre RB. If you want to wind the guy up ask him why his VQ doesn't produce anywhere near twice as much power as a stock SR16VE N1 given it's more than twice the size!


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

This is like some spazza kids in a playground



Cris said:


> If you want to wind the guy up ask him why his VQ doesn't produce anywhere near twice as much power as a stock SR16VE N1 given it's more than twice the size!


And he will go, because its less tuned and actually has some low down power. Bothered.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

There are NA RB20 , RB25. They aren't that powerful in stock form NA. 2.0 liter , 2.5 liter engine.

The VQ is a different animal. Its a much newer more efficient engine. There are plenty way over 1k in power. The VQ head flows better stock than a worked RB, or for that matter 2JZ head. 


There is really no argument. You can't compare a 2.0 or 2.5 liter engine to a 3.5 liter engine. There is no replacement for displacement. At least in a street car, or streetable car.


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Cris said:


> I also bloody well hope that a 3.5 litre VQ would produce more power than a 2.5 litre RB. If you want to wind the guy up ask him why his VQ doesn't produce anywhere near twice as much power as a stock SR16VE N1 given it's more than twice the size!


Not sure why that would be a wind up. I have a Honda making ok power NA which I have a lot of fun with, a Kawasaki ZX6R makes a shitload more power/litre than my Honda but it doesn't make me feel bad - my 2.2litre still does a far better job for its application.

Agreed 110% with Tyndago's comment.


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm gonna start to build an N/A RB26 next summer (2009) for my Datsun 260Z.

I'm gonna try to reach 12-13000 rpm to get as much hp as possible.
of course with high compression, maximum ported cylinder head, special valve springs, special made camshafts, bigger valves, Special crankshaft, rods and etc.

I'm gonna build this engine with help of an old top fuel drag bike engine builder.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

260Z said:


> I'm gonna start to build an N/A RB26 next summer (2009) for my Datsun 260Z.
> 
> I'm gonna try to reach 12-13000 rpm to get as much hp as possible.
> of course with high compression, maximum ported cylinder head, special valve springs, special made camshafts, bigger valves, Special crankshaft, rods and etc.
> ...


Sounds cool, Could you take some photos as the build goes on with some specs, would be interested to see this go (dyno sheets):clap::bowdown1:


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

Sub Boy said:


> Sounds cool, Could you take some photos as the build goes on with some specs, would be interested to see this go (dyno sheets):clap::bowdown1:




of course I will take many pictures 

Then the engine will be dynoed on an superflow 901 bench.


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

260Z said:


> I'm gonna start to build an N/A RB26 next summer (2009) for my Datsun 260Z.
> 
> I'm gonna try to reach 12-13000 rpm to get as much hp as possible.
> of course with high compression, maximum ported cylinder head, special valve springs, special made camshafts, bigger valves, Special crankshaft, rods and etc.
> ...



This could be of interest to you

@nifty: –|–ó


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

paul cawson said:


> This could be of interest to you
> 
> @nifty: –|–ó



I don't understand Japanese, but the engine and the car are beautiful


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

After seeing the ZZII concept car with the mid engined RB26 and GTR running gear (I'm guessing with everything mounted reversed) I've wanted to make a custom "Super Car" with a Custom 6lt V12 block with twin RB26 heads and twin T04z turbos.....Scary!!

....Just have to win lotto yeah..


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

260Z said:


> I'm gonna try to reach 12-13000 rpm to get as much hp as possible.
> of course with high compression, maximum ported cylinder head, special valve springs, special made camshafts, bigger valves, Special crankshaft, rods and etc.
> I'm gonna build this engine with help of an old top fuel drag bike engine builder.


Dry sump and rod bearings.


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

260Z said:


> I'm gonna start to build an N/A RB26 next summer (2009) for my Datsun 260Z.
> 
> I'm gonna try to reach 12-13000 rpm to get as much hp as possible.
> of course with high compression, maximum ported cylinder head, special valve springs, special made camshafts, bigger valves, Special crankshaft, rods and etc.
> ...


Sounds great, let us updated with a build thread.

How much power can you expect from your project and what do you have to input as budget. Then 13rpms sounds staggering , but how would you deal with the reliable issues of the engine components?


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

gtrlux said:


> Sounds great, let us updated with a build thread.
> 
> How much power can you expect from your project and what do you have to input as budget. Then 13rpms sounds staggering , but how would you deal with the reliable issues of the engine components?


No doubt about dry sump 

I hope to reach 400+ hp or I kill my self :smokin:
No budget yet, because this is something new for us.
One thing I'm sure, that this project is gonna blow a big hole in my wallet.
I know that 13000 rpm sounds very much, but I have to try to see wehere the boundaries goes.
I'm prepared for a lot of problems with this project :thumbsup:

I know the old man very well and he is kind of genius, I trust him.
When he was competing he build everything him self.
Engine block, crankshaft, rods, piston, camshaft, supercharger etc.
Only thing he didn't build was the cylinder head, it took too much time


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

as a daily driver, building an 8000rpm N/A RB26 making about 300 crank horsepower could be fun. Main thing is bumping up the compression ratio. How far would one dare to go...??


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

kismetcapitan said:


> as a daily driver, building an 8000rpm N/A RB26 making about 300 crank horsepower could be fun. Main thing is bumping up the compression ratio. How far would one dare to go...??


How many octanes are you going to run ?


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## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)

Here's some cool links:
How To Get More Power From A Naturally Aspirated (na) Engine - Skylines Australia
Naturally Aspirated Performance - Skylines Australia

and some stuff: (don't ask me the power . . .don't know)


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## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)

EAGLE RACING


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks for those pages


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