# NISMO ECU upgrade



## alz505 (Mar 3, 2010)

I am thinking of installing the Middlehurst NISMO ECU upgrade and would like to hear from anyone who has already gone done this route and if they think it is worth the money. Thanks


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Dont think its worth it...some cars have 520hp from the factory... with more torque then stock....so why waste a lot of money on something that is so little more fun....

If its too slow...by a Cobb AP....more bang for your buck:wavey:


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Does it exist?


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## Chris-GTR (Nov 4, 2010)

I spoke to Middlehursts about it last week and they said it was available for all but the 2010 cars. The 2010 upgrade was currently going through final testing.


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## CSL (Jan 18, 2007)

Only plus side with the Nismo item is you keep your warranty:chuckle:

H.


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

How much and what uplift in power and torque?

D


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## Razzele (Apr 30, 2010)

CSL said:


> Only plus side with the Nismo item is you keep your warranty:chuckle:
> 
> H.


Wow- MH get that thing sorted out for 2010s !

What sort of power increase is expected?


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## Alias23 (Nov 25, 2010)

Not heard of this... can anyone elaborate on the expect power/torque increase and cost? Agree that it would be hard to compete aganist the Cobb units, however at least it keeps the warranty safe!


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

This was released in Japan in May 2009 for Jap-use only and after 18 months has still never been seen or tested anywhere I can find..........


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

well, the mythical Nismo tranny cooler now has a price on the MH website.

i'd love to hear from anyone who has actually bought the ecu or cooler in the UK


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## CSL (Jan 18, 2007)

Zed Ed said:


> well, the mythical Nismo tranny cooler now has a price on the MH website.
> 
> i'd love to hear from anyone who has actually bought the ecu or cooler in the UK


Are you sure as I couldnt find it. Diff cooler maybe?

Middlehurst have an appalling web site..... why dont they invest a few hundred pounds and people like me would spend my hard earned pennys. 


H.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

CSL said:


> Are you sure as I couldnt find it. Diff cooler maybe?
> 
> Middlehurst have an appalling web site..... why dont they invest a few hundred pounds and people like me would spend my hard earned pennys.
> 
> ...


NEWS


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Zed Ed said:


> well, the mythical Nismo tranny cooler now has a price on the MH website.
> 
> i'd love to hear from anyone who has actually bought the ecu or cooler in the UK


What a bargain at £2750 for a tiny cooler! 

That may cool the rear diff oil, but the effect on the gearbox will be negligible, that cooler is simply too small to take away any significant amount of heat. The money would be better spent on a big gearbox cooler.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Mizuno-san's stance is that it is the rear diff that leads to the high trans temps, so a smaller cooler there MAY help with the source of the problem rather than treating the symptom afterwards.
That is why there is no NISMO gearbox cooler; they claim there is no problem with the gearbox! :chuckle:

I remain sceptical, but it would be interesting to see how the trans temps cope with this LSD cooler. Claims to drop diff temps by 30c which is quite a lot, but I bet it still gets really hot on track.

If I end up doing a lot of track use in my DBA R35, I might fit the Forge gearbox cooler as it appears to be the only one that is proven to work under hard conditions, i.e. Evolution VI's lead-footed track abuse!


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

sumo69 said:


> How much and what uplift in power and torque?
> 
> D


The most info I got from MH was that it was "about a grand and will improve torque". 

I generally want to hear a bit more informaation before I hand over that amount of money for anything.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> Mizuno-san's stance is that it is the rear diff that leads to the high trans temps, so a smaller cooler there MAY help with the source of the problem rather than treating the symptom afterwards.
> That is why there is no NISMO gearbox cooler; they claim there is no problem with the gearbox! :chuckle:
> 
> I remain sceptical, but it would be interesting to see how the trans temps cope with this LSD cooler. Claims to drop diff temps by 30c which is quite a lot, but I bet it still gets really hot on track.
> ...


Yes and Mizuna claims that the GTR is better being heavy, yet unsurprisingly the GTR race-cars are lighter and therefore faster 

The rear-diff only holds about a litre of oil, so it gets very hot. Dropping 30c from one litre of oil is easily possible with a small cooler. However the heat impact of that is small on the gearbox with a capacity of 9-10 litres.

Simple physics says bigger cooler = more heat extraction.

Of course if the gearbox didn't get hot it would have a 120,000 mile oil service interval like Porsche, not the 3,000-18,000 it has.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Guy said:


> Yes and Mizuna claims that the GTR is better being heavy, yet unsurprisingly the GTR race-cars are lighter and therefore faster
> 
> The rear-diff only holds about a litre of oil, so it gets very hot. Dropping 30c from one litre of oil is easily possible with a small cooler. However the heat impact of that is small on the gearbox with a capacity of 9-10 litres.
> 
> ...


Just for the sake of internet-jousting with you:

-Is there a VR38 engined 4WD factory GT-R race car?
-Is a race car "better" than the road car? Mizuno's claims about weight providing better grip refer to overall grip over the widest range of real world conditions and speeds, not just race track downforce speeds
-It doesn't matter about the volume of oil in the diff, IF it is the diff that is the primary source of the excess heat (and I really don't believe it is), then stopping it from overheating would naturally stop the gearbox overheating. A case of prevention being better than cure.


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## CSL (Jan 18, 2007)

Stevie76 said:


> NEWS


The link takes me to a Nismo Diff Cooler.
Life is too short, please dont try and help me find it. I couldnt be bothered.

H.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> Just for the sake of internet-jousting with you:
> 
> -Is there a VR38 engined 4WD factory GT-R race car?
> -Is a race car "better" than the road car? Mizuno's claims about weight providing better grip refer to overall grip over the widest range of real world conditions and speeds, not just race track downforce speeds
> -It doesn't matter about the volume of oil in the diff, IF it is the diff that is the primary source of the excess heat (and I really don't believe it is), then stopping it from overheating would naturally stop the gearbox overheating. A case of prevention being better than cure.



In turn...

1. I didn't say they were factory, but the SuperTaikyu cars are VR38 and 4wd and weigh much less. 

Super Taikyu 2010: Debut for Team Daishin's NISMO GT-R RC ST1 Spec Nissan GT-R at Okayama - NAGTROC - The Nissan GT-R Owners Club
DAISHIN�@MOTOR�@SPORT OFFICIAL�@WEB�@SITE

2. A heavier car makes a car grip a little better in snow or rain, perhaps this is what Mizuno referred to. However few people will agree with this for an ultimate performance car, as the same argument would suggest that adding weight to the car would make it better still. When Porsche build an RS or Lambo an SL they don't also do a 'Wet/Snow 'edition where they add 100kg to the base car 

3. Oil volume does matter a little in that in acts as a heat-sink. However the main point, perhaps badly worded, is that both the gearbox and the diff are heat generators. The diff generates much much less heat than the gearbox. In simple terms this is easy to understand because the weight of oil/gearbox far exceeds the weight of oil/diff. The amount of energy being created and dissipated by the box far exceeds the diff. Therefore a small cooler with a small capacity for extra heat dissipation will have a large impact on the diff, but would have a far far smaller effect if used on the gearbox. It is therefore obviously beneficial for the diff, but only slightly beneficial for the box. 

If you want to spend over £2k to help cool the gearbox, it is clear that it's better spent on a proper bigger gearbox cooler. However, if you really wish to cool the diff only or don't want to risk warranty, then the Nismo diff cooler is a good purchase, as it's the only warranty-friendly modification.

It is no co-incidence that after 2 years of GTRs and the experiences of what overheats, that there are literally dozens of manufacturers making and selling gearbox coolers in large volumes and almost no-one making diff coolers. Of the people that sell diff coolers, all sell them only to cool the diff and also sell a gearbox cooler. Only Nismo suggest you cool the gearbox by cooling the diff. It's like suggesting that you warm up a cold room in your house by turning on the heating in the room next door!


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Re the weight issue, obviously everyone knows that for a race car, less is more. But Mizuno's point about weight (and in particular weight distribution and management under changing loads) is about generating maximum grip on a road car under all conditions and he specifically mentions snow and rain in his presentation. I bet the road car is faster than the Super Takiyu car around corners in the snow, wearing the correct tyres.

He also emphasised having the correct downward force for the size of tyre chosen (20"), although I agree that is an odd starting point for engineering decisions!

Re diff v gearbox, as I said, it depends on whether you take at face value their statement that it is the diff not the box that is the SOURCE of the excess heat. If it is (which I doubt personally), then it is just conceivable that cooling the diff, i.e. the source, is as/more effective than cooling the box. 
To use your analogy, if the only reason a room in the house is too hot is because it is adjoining a much smaller but hotter room, turning down the thermostat in that smaller room would be the most effective way of controlling the temp in the larger room. :chuckle:

In reality of course, the proof is in the testing, and I haven't seen any independent data to back up Nissan/NISMO's claims for the rear diff cooler.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> Re the weight issue, obviously everyone knows that for a race car, less is more. But Mizuno's point about weight (and in particular weight distribution and management under changing loads) is about generating maximum grip on a road car under all conditions and he specifically mentions snow and rain in his presentation. I bet the road car is faster than the Super Takiyu car around corners in the snow, wearing the correct tyres.
> 
> He also emphasised having the correct downward force for the size of tyre chosen (20"), although I agree that is an odd starting point for engineering decisions!
> 
> ...


As fun as this is David, you and I both know you're 'clutching at straws' on this at there is little engineering or physics logic in what Nismo/Mizuno are saying and this is backed up by every single other supplier of aftermarket parts


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

I'm not clutching at straws, simply explaining Nissan's stance on the issue. I don't necessarily believe it and I've already said if I decide to extensively track the 2011 car, I'll probably fit a Forge trans cooler!


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## Razzele (Apr 30, 2010)

I am encouraging this thread drift as well unfortunately. I am interested though as ive seen 103c on the roads in my standard GTR.

Firstly I don't know a lot about the mechanical setup on this car. I understand that the gearbox is rear mounted and the Nismo Diff cooler is for the rear Diff? Nismo are suggesting it is the proximity of the rear Diff thats heating the gearbox oil? 

What would be the interest in Nismo marketing a Diff cooler to reduce transmission oil temps if it doesn't work? If their 'hot diff' reasoning is correct then i would certainly be going for diff cooler. 

The price seems steep but then the question of maintaining a warranty for that area offsets the initial outlay?


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

LSD clutches do generate a lot of heat when slipping under load.

I would wait for more hard data before making any decisions on which cooler to fit. I suspect Nismo may have a better understanding of the LSD than some of the aftermarket companies.


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