# Engine failure pros your opinion!! beware supertech.



## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

Its been 6000km since this new engine was build proper brake in and during the tuning on the dyno third pull at 7000rpm we lost pressure from the 6th cylinder and the engine was off. I took the engine out and opened it and found that one of the intake supertech valves was hit from the piston slammed in to the head and piston, i have found bits of metal in all the pistons though and in the intake which where sucked from the 6th cylinder, turbo side was almost clear for my luck.It looks to me that something made the valve to delay to close and the piston gave a nice punch to it, all the rest of the valves in the other cylinders are ok but still changing to ferrea intake. bronze supertech Valve guides clearance seemed fine after i took the head to a different machine shop where i trust, one interesting thing is that all the intake site except from the 5th cylinder where dark color which seems that the valves where not seated properly but when i did a compression 150psi test when it was with 1000km had the same in all 6 , the shims where ok but still the valves sounded like it was a sound of knocking shims . 
as well the other findings on the bore of the block was 87mm on top then one inch lower i had 96.8 then 1 inch lower 96.6 and at the bottom of the bore was again 86.8, btw on the torque plate i have paid to be maid was not visible that it was used they just made it and i have paid for it loads just to be told that they have used it . the machine shop owner name is Arestis v
Vrontis and everyone should avoid this place cause they have no idea of what they are doing there are at least 20 people i have heard recently that they broke engines by their work, thousands of pounds went in the bin by these people, i hope if someone from Cyprus who see this to give me a call and tell him the places where they know what they are doing.


















































































































































































































































































the valve seals where all supplied by me in one color when i opened the head i found the half where black and the rest brown, the brown ones on the exhaust side where worn and open 










watch the color deference in the intakes










3rd cylinder was quite clear one 










4th was a bit black 










5th was the most clear










2nd 










this was black a lot 



















see the difference










These are 6000km intake valves can you believe it???



















this was the one next to the one which was cut 



















with 87.40 is almost clear at 87.5 with the polish will be clean i am going for wisecos this time.



















i made a mild polish the crank with 400grid.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

ohh and something i have forgotten the polish of the cylinder wall was like sh.t.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Eeewwwwww...no.6 is just shagged!!!

Thats a building issue. You cant really blame the valves for that....
The fact that you say there were discrepancies with the valve stem seals has alarm bells ringing for me.

TT


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## rockabilly (Oct 15, 2003)

spun no6 big end.

or as it got to 7k the collets came out of the top hat and the valve dropped

this inturn causes the piston to hit the valves.

have you got a picture of the bearings from the big ends, say number 4 and 6 rods to show.

if the bearing has not spun i would say valve collets.

the valve has snapped of the stem because its was pertuding down into the

bore and has been hit hard by the piston crown.


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## cougar power mo (Nov 3, 2009)

If something is not working right in general supertech valves or any valves or any other product is not gonna save the case . Pitty though since thousand of euros are thrown away. If you need some help you are always welcome to us . ( midnight purple r33gtr - themis ) .


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

the bearings are in good condition and crank had nothing to do with this, and the valve was not dropped cause the locks where in place to me it looked more like or crown fatigue and the head of the valve it was cut or more likely the valve stuck open and the piston just slammed it, if it was fatigue from the factory i understand it but if it stuck why to stuck since the clearance was right? and why so much oil intake contamination ? and why most the intakes had black color and 2 of them especially number 5 is perfectly clean? it can not be from cam overlap cause it would have been in all the same?? is it a sign that the useless who did the head didnt sit the valves properly and vacuum tested them? even though there are signs that this new engine was badly burning oil it actually didnt , even at the exhaust no sign of blue white smoke.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

cougar power mo said:


> If something is not working right in general supertech valves or any valves or any other product is not gonna save the case . Pitty though since thousand of euros are thrown away. If you need some help you are always welcome to us . ( midnight purple r33gtr - themis ) .


thanks, i know Themis very well, unfortunately you are too far to visit you machine shop in Paphos, i have found a good place in Nicosia but this time i am going to be doing even these jobs with them so i can be 100% that the job was done properly. Very soon i will have the 87.5mm Wisecos, 12 intake ferrea 2 inconel supertech to add etc. 
Dont forget that my bottom end is a bit unique even the best mechanic could make mistakes since was never tested before this combo, i have already found what was wrong with a setup i had on the bottom now i am expecting to finalize it once for all. and since i have spent so much and have the capability to go for big hp i might go for a single comp turbo if they sponsor something. There is one in Limassol r34brown color do you have any contacts with him? i would like to see how is the rb30 with a single turbo so i can decide.
But first i need to find and be sure what went wrong with the head and caused this mess so it could never happen again.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

As soon as I saw that head some time ago I new it would go bang and supertech valves are good never had a problem with them and done loads of heads using them all the seats look bad this is down to a bad build sorry


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

but what do you think have cause the valve to fail or stuck?


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

rockabilly said:


> spun no6 big end.
> 
> or as it got to 7k the collets came out of the top hat and the valve dropped
> 
> ...


This diagnosis is correct,exact same thing happened to my engine,no spun bearing but collet failure resulting in total engine destruction !

Nothing to do with Valves used,just put together poorly.


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## cougar power mo (Nov 3, 2009)

Yes r34 brown was together with the r35 at my show in august .


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Looks like it was built & tuned like crap.


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

Were the new guides reamed ?

Looks like the valve caught in the guide seeing as the collets are still in place.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

lightspeed said:


> Were the new guides reamed ?
> 
> Looks like the valve caught in the guide seeing as the collets are still in place.


This is what Mark Abbey said which i want to thank a lot for his time helping and advising. 

well its the only thing which could made the valve to delay to close and i have heard today that supertech valve guides when pressed in the head they need a final ream or hone for finish which probably the machine shop didnt do it, does anyone know the clearances for intake and exhaust on these bronze guides?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

How thick were the shims you used? And all bronze valve guides need reaming not just supertech ones. It looks like that head was put together very bad all so what is the piston to valve clearance?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Look what I put on page 9 on your build thread.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> How thick were the shims you used? And all bronze valve guides need reaming not just supertech ones. It looks like that head was put together very bad all so what is the piston to valve clearance?


all of them where 3mm the shims used by the machine shop, and at the time they told me that 3mm where even not enough, he did 3 rb26 heads at the same time 2 of them broke the 3rd didnt run the car yet one of these heads was on a rips rb30 i think. As i understand he didnt bore the seat didnt cut correctly and didnt hone the guides even though it seem that the clearance is ok as i have checked but maybe they have been like mushrooms Andy what is the correct clearance for them intake and exhaust?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

That shim is very big for the supertech retainer to hold we're just working with piper cams and making a different retainer to hold a 3mm shim as when we go 11mm and over we have to drop the base circle. With the cams were designing you don't have use the very dear valve lifter as you do with the tomei cams.


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## boosh (Feb 7, 2008)

really feel for you mate! judging buy the state of the valves this engine was never running right. i have seen cleaner vauxhall valves with failed piston rings!! i had a valve drop on a sr20 looked exactly the same just left the stalk of the valve and the head got munched! 
whats your plan now then??


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

wisecos 87.5mm, 12 ferrea intake valves, 12 supertech exhaust, fill the 6th cylinder head with aluminum and fix the damage and fit 4 new seats from nissan i hope they have oversize otherwise i will have to manage that by filling aluminum and fitting the stock size seats new head gasket nismo bearings and maybe going single turbo for 800hp.
And double check my self the clearances of the guides!!


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

I'm with Lightspeed and Mark, that does look like a valve stuck in the guide and waited for the piston to connect. Sadly it looks like a bad assembly job.

Other quick questions would be what oil did you have in and what fuel was you using? 

I would strongly advise your RB30 friend to have his head checked before running. If he finds as suspected, it may give grounds for all three of you to make a compensation claim against the person who did the work.

DaveG


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

DCD said:


> Looks like it was built & tuned like crap.


This. Its a shame that someone would blame a manufacturer when the whole motor looks like it was put together and run poorly. I have seen MANY people use both supertech and ferrea with much higher rpm and boost than you without fail and had a local to me have two ferrea valves drop within hours of start up because the assembly was all wrong. No part will survive poor usage and look at that build up in just 6k km? You clearly had multiple issues. Good luck with the rebuild but dont kid yourself thinking a different part would perform any better under those circumstances.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Jimefam said:


> This. Its a shame that someone would blame a manufacturer when the whole motor looks like it was put together and run poorly. I have seen MANY people use both supertech and ferrea with much higher rpm and boost than you without fail and had a local to me have two ferrea valves drop within hours of start up because the assembly was all wrong. No part will survive poor usage and look at that build up in just 6k km? You clearly had multiple issues. Good luck with the rebuild but dont kid yourself thinking a different part would perform any better under those circumstances.


Well said mate don't blame the parts every thing will fail when not built right' if you had ferrea valves in there you would have had the same problem would you have then gone to supertech valves?


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

DrGtr said:


> wisecos 87.5mm, 12 ferrea intake valves, 12 supertech exhaust, fill the 6th cylinder head with aluminum and fix the damage and fit 4 new seats from nissan i hope they have oversize otherwise i will have to manage that by filling aluminum and fitting the stock size seats new head gasket nismo bearings and maybe going single turbo for 800hp.
> And double check my self the clearances of the guides!!


So this is the plan for the next build?
After just berating Supertech and saying that we should all steer clear, you then plan to use Supertech exhaust valves???

:nervous:

So whats it to be then......you cant have it both ways?? You either feel Supertech are indeed poor quality parts yet strangely choose to use them again OR you concede that it was the build that was at fault and not the valves.

If the latter, then its only fair to publicly say so given the title of the thread!!!

TT


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

I think you guys havent read all his posts, he has mentioned that the person who did the heads seems to have screwed up, and he also seems to have taken your advice (this time) and is not (anymore) placing blame the valves at least from what I can understand from the OP posts.

DrGTR, looking at your original build thread, the work done on the head is pretty bad. IF you are doing this again, i would recommend you using a new head, you COULD weld-fill the problems, but for the cost of having that done PROPERLY and the cost of a good condition second hand OEM head, would probably work out better, buy one from someone in the UK, call a few GTR specialist shops in the UK ask them to do you head build up, send them the head and parts, and let them put it together properly.

Im not saying there is no one in Cyprus who knows how to build RBs properly, since i havent been there since i left a long time ago, but while i was there, i dont think i would have given my engine to anyone i had heard of who was an 'expert' BUT things may have changed...


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

tarmac terror said:


> So whats it to be then......you cant have it both ways?? You either feel Supertech are indeed poor quality parts yet strangely choose to use them again OR you concede that it was the build that was at fault and not the valves.
> 
> If the latter, then its only fair to publicly say so given the title of the thread!!!
> 
> TT


The title of this thread should be changed if its not an issue with Supertech components.

Cheers
Stu


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

I think i have read them all correctly and i still cannot see where OP says
"OK, maybe the valves weren't to blame after all..." (or words to that effect)

Not starting a slanging match here but i just feel that if someone writes a title which strongly suggests a specific brand is to blame for an engine failure (the words "beware Supertech" are quite provocative) and subsequently changes their mind, then i feel its only fair to either have the title changed by Admin or come out categorically and say that their initial assumption was incorrect!!!

Fair's fair after all!!!

TT


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

If you feel the valve is at falt then you need to send the rest of the valve to supertech.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

tarmac terror said:


> I think i have read them all correctly and i still cannot see where OP says
> "OK, maybe the valves weren't to blame after all..." (or words to that effect)
> 
> Not starting a slanging match here but i just feel that if someone writes a title which strongly suggests a specific brand is to blame for an engine failure (the words "beware Supertech" are quite provocative) and subsequently changes their mind, then i feel its only fair to either have the title changed by Admin or come out categorically and say that their initial assumption was incorrect!!!
> ...



Fair enough, perhaps im reading too hard between the lines then  

good luck to the OP


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## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

How come all that slack is build up on top of the valves then?

Ron


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

Ok just to clear up some things, i believe supertech are doing a lots of good products, In my case i have a valve which was slammed in my engine and cut at the neck not dropped, again the clearances of the guides seem to be right but at the end i have a cut valve, this could be caused by 2 reasons i think, one is that the valve had some fatigue from the factory (supertech beware !!) and second is stack in the guide and delayed to close. We dont have any proofs how this valve ended up this way 100%. 
If you search on the internet you can find loads of people telling the same story as mine the supertech intake valve was cut. i know that ferrea are similar to supertech. 
My reason why to leave the exhaust by supertech is that they seem to be good quality inconel so no deference than ferrea, why change only the intake? supertechs close to the neck are thinner to allow more are so it means weaker. 
And if you look a video on how the valves are made and where the 2 pieces join each other and you see where mine was cut you will understand, as well the exhaust oil seals from supertech suck. 
From my personal experience if someone wanted my advice i would say 
ferrea valves 
ferrea valve locks 
supertech retainers 
supertech guides ( dont forget to hone after installation Andy the clearances????? ) 
oil seals stock nissans .

Rain 
This engine was 100% new with n1 block etc 
The stock engine i still have it so i have an other head if i want to use it, but i am fed up and i cant be bothered to port for a week again 
this to be fixed will cost no more than 300pounds plus parts locally, we have some very good machine shops which can do the job but this time i will be there when they do it with my books as well calculating everything from the start, it was bad luck and bad machine shop who did the first one arestis vrontis was just good on the words and talking about how expensive was his bench flow btw after i have paid more than 1200euros for this extreme fu.. up i didnt get the bench flow readings he just told me that he even cleaned the head and is ready for assemble which i didnt cause it was full inside with aluminum grindings and for the piston rings when i called him to ask if he have cut them he was like they dont need to be cut and when i have double checked them the filler was not going in there at all , the bad thing was that he never gives receipts and unfortunately i cant do much about it, i couldn't even bother to call and let him know how good he is at his work.

Andy and many have used supertech in many high revving engines with no failure, maybe was my bad luck and i got 1 valve which had fatigue from the factory i just wanted to share it with you, so people dont start to change the title and so on just read the whole thread, if you think that you wane go with supertech go for it i just wanted to show you my story maybe i was the only unlucky, few friends thought the same and used them again and where 2 times unlucky like me if you search on the net , at the end of the day everything fails at some time. My opinion is stay away from superthech intake valves.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

You still haven't told us what your piston to valve clearance is? You need to send the valve to supertech to let have a look if you think its fatigue.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

DrGtr said:


> My opinion is stay away from superthech intake valves.


Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up.

TT


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

I've not seen your build thread before but I've just looked and seen the pictures of the head before it was fitted. If the guides were fitted by whoever ported it I'm not surprised it failed. The whole thing from the porting to the build of the head (valve clearances ?) looks like a disaster. I'd be heading back to the workshop that did that for a refund. Hope you get something sorted out.

Cheers

Stu


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

Thanks for your inputs Andy thats too much for hastle it will take time and money and nobody will want or accept for their mistakes.

mambastu: as he have paid for the last 3 type-r engines and the rb26 block he have damaged over 10k last year some other mechanics and the 5 rx7 housings and plenty more he will pay me. you know what i mean, its no point even trying.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

But if the valve is at falt then you do need to contack supertech you carnt blame the valve if your not sure you will never get to the bottom of it. But what were the piston to valve clearance?


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

that i dont know i did the mistake and i didnt measure but for sure they where not touching the pistons you can see on the pic of the pistons. I will sent them an email tomorrow at supertech to see what they have to say.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

you didnt measure the piston to valve clearances ?

Perhaps I WAS reading to far between the lines :chuckle:

Good luck DrGtr, shame about the engine.


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## tssupra (May 23, 2011)

Sorry to hear about this after all those money invested.
Why are you going from CP to Wiseco pistons?


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

tssupra said:


> Sorry to hear about this after all those money invested.
> Why are you going from CP to Wiseco pistons?


 a)i dont like the idea of having so big clearances 
2) they have valve pockets for oversize valves and high lift 
3) coated
4)cheaper


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

What pistons have the valve cut outs wiseco?


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## SklyaFett (Oct 18, 2005)

Not being funny but Iv read most of this thread. Sounds like a bad engine build. I mean not checking valve clearance ffs. sounds like your pointing the finger at anyplace but home to be honest mate. And if your sooooo sure its the valve, why not send it back to supertech to be checked so it does not happen to someone else if there is a problem.

Jeff


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

tssupra said:


> Sorry to hear about this after all those money invested.
> Why are you going from CP to Wiseco pistons?


Piston and valve collided so change piston company and valve company, problems solved!


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## tssupra (May 23, 2011)

a)i dont like the idea of having so big clearances 
2) they have valve pockets for oversize valves and high lift 
3) coated
4)cheaper

Ok, so your cp's were designed for standard size valves and lift then?
What big clearance are you referring to, piston to wall?

Post up some pics of the new pistons when you get them so we can see the
differences in design over the cp's.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

SklyaFett said:


> Not being funny but Iv read most of this thread. Sounds like a bad engine build. I mean not checking valve clearance ffs. sounds like your pointing the finger at anyplace but home to be honest mate. And if your sooooo sure its the valve, why not send it back to supertech to be checked so it does not happen to someone else if there is a problem.
> 
> Jeff


Jeff i did check the valve clearance but i didnt measure it and anyway i didnt play with the cam pulleys i have used a micrometer on the bucket and installed the cams on time it was no way that the valves where close from the pistons to hit them and i could even look at this from my pistons so dont pretend all of you here that you know everything they where many powerful engines build here so dont start like you are more clever than anyone else , i would like to see people have the balls to be able to spent a fortune and design their own crank and set up and build an engine. 

i am not pointing this on you but to everyone on here trying to pretend that they know everything, this is for you from my money and people mistakes who have paid a lot for you to learn what is good or bad. 

I will contact supertech and if they are interested to pay the transportation i will sent my valve, but again seriously do you think that they will tell you that their product had a defect?? supertech or any supertech, you just know now 2 things tell your machine place to look for the guide clearance and make a pray to the god when you pass 8000rpms that it will not brake, simple.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

Jimefam said:


> Piston and valve collided so change piston company and valve company, problems solved!


cp pistons are one of the best i have seen so far mate, for a race engine i would def use them anytime they look solid and well balanced.i would just not use them for my street engine plus as mentioned above.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

tssupra said:


> a)i dont like the idea of having so big clearances
> 2) they have valve pockets for oversize valves and high lift
> 3) coated
> 4)cheaper
> ...


yes piston to wall. No they are perfectly ok for oversize valves i have 10.80lift and had no clearance issues. 
i will make lots of pictures when i receive them no problem. if i had problem with the clearances all of the intake valves they where going to be bent and not only one with the same shiming.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

just hope that they will be like these ones 

Wiseco Skyline RB26 DETT Piston - K591M875 - .060


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## Hopland (Dec 23, 2012)

Hey Sorry for your engine failture...give that man who built this a real beating.

But what about the valve seats? and the valve clearance? its the contact point between the valve and its seat who conduct combustion heat away from the valve and to the cylinder head...(the seats should have 3 different angels from memory) this is important to get right aswell as the valveclearance for valvecooling..maybe this is a burnt valve issue... or most likely it also caused out the valve sticking in the guide becase of burning combustiongasses hitting the valve stem (who is also not properly reamed as pointed out by [email protected])


maybe im wrong here...this is just my opinion


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## skylinegts2gtr (Jan 24, 2007)

DrGtr said:


> cp pistons are one of the best i have seen so far mate, for a race engine i would def use them anytime they look solid and well balanced.i would just not use them for my street engine plus as mentioned above.


before id even look at new parts i would find someone who knows how to build an engine properly!


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Not been funny pal but all the.wiseco pistons I have used for the RB26 have not come with valve cut outs I would be checking first before buying them. 
All so you said that you thoght the valve had stuck in the guide and that's what did it now your saying they were all checked and were right' it seems to me that you only lissen
To its the valve that's at falt' do you no with big valves that they hit if one is on full lift and you turn the same cylinder to set up the cam timing.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Not been funny pal but all the.wiseco pistons I have used for the RB26 have not come with valve cut outs I would be checking first before buying them.
> All so you said that you thoght the valve had stuck in the guide and that's what did it now your saying they were all checked and were right' it seems to me that you only lissen
> To its the valve that's at falt' do you no with big valves that they hit if one is on full lift and you turn the same cylinder to set up the cam timing.


i know Andy, about the wiseco if they dont come with the valve cut outs still doesnt matter as long as they are good quality as promised.
when was the last time you have used wisecos? and which size? from the pic i see 2 years ago they look ordinary but the pic i see now they look different.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

skylinegts2gtr said:


> before id even look at new parts i would find someone who knows how to build an engine properly!


apart from the machine shop who didnt know how to do their work what did you see wrong on this engine mate? 
You believe that if this head was given to any good known uk mechanic to install that it wouldn't brake?


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## drewzer (Jun 22, 2009)

If this head was given to any reputable UK tuner they would have spent a long time measuring the Clearances and inspecting the quality of the installation of the valve train components.



DrGtr said:


> apart from the machine shop who didnt know how to do their work what did you see wrong on this engine mate?
> You believe that if this head was given to any good known uk mechanic to install that it wouldn't brake?


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

drewzer said:


> If this head was given to any reputable UK tuner they would have spent a long time measuring the Clearances and inspecting the quality of the installation of the valve train components.


:chuckle::chuckle: i hope they do mate, most of the garages i know even in some the uk the have their faithful machine shops which they trust them and tested them many times, some of the mechanics they dont even have a dial guide tool. 
In these business as i have seen you just need to work or pay the correct people who went in a university and did engineering and then have right amount of experience , not a lot out their, the most are just boys who started working in some garages and then opened their own shop.If you are lucky and they had a good teacher you are lucky.


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## skylinegts2gtr (Jan 24, 2007)

DrGtr said:


> apart from the machine shop who didnt know how to do their work what did you see wrong on this engine mate?
> You believe that if this head was given to any good known uk mechanic to install that it wouldn't brake?


i dont believe that at all mate, if its given to someone who knows what they are doing wheather in the uk or not, they you will get the results you want, in one of you posts ( cant find it or its been deleted,) you said you found out hes blown a few engines, might pay to do some research before hand or youll end up paying later! well i built my engine in my garden shed, forged, ported, valve guides, shims, cams etc and its the first engine i built! i took alot of advice on and off this form, and used a decent machine shop where i was lucky enough to have access to machines i couldnt even dream of buying!


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## drewzer (Jun 22, 2009)

University means nothing, i work with retards that got into aviation engineering (my profession) through having a degree . . . . .masters degree's, bachelor degree's etc. And i wouldn't wouldn't trust them to check the pressure of a fart, never mind my tires!!!! 

Some of the best work shops are the manky-est, foul places, run by old smelly pipe smoking hobbits:chuckle:


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

DrGtr said:


> i know Andy, about the wiseco if they dont come with the valve cut outs still doesnt matter as long as they are good quality as promised.
> when was the last time you have used wisecos? and which size? from the pic i see 2 years ago they look ordinary but the pic i see now they look different.


Two weeks ago 87mm


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

so mine will be no different than yours , what thickness gasket do you recommend with these and 10.8 lift? 1.5mm?
what is the compression of the ones you had?


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## BenR (Jan 28, 2013)

I seriously suggest you take a step back from getting involved with any aspect of the next engine build as, without wanting to offend, you are asking all the wrong questions. 

From what I have read so far, and a quick look at your build thread, you have had numerous chances to catch this grenade of an engine before it even ran. 

Firstly, your machine shop is terrible.......on the basis of the bore readings you've given I'd be asking for my money back as its irrifutable evidence that they would have caused an engine failure even if your cylinder head/valvetrain was perfect. 

Your bore was 87mm at the top and 86.6 (I assume you made a typo of 98.6), which is a taper of 15 thou!!! 0.015"!!! Those pistons should of been (depending on material and barrel) running about 4 to 5 thou clearance, but at the bottom of its stroke it would be negative 10 thou!....thats a 10 thou interfernce fit or 0.25mm! Surprised it ran at all, and it explains the picture of your piston with shiny shirts and the 'crap' finish of the cylinder wall you were complaining about. 

Next your head was a shambles, you were warned by several people to throw it in the bin, and evidently you should of. 

The port work was terrible, but that only affects power, the machining.......that affects running and reliability, or rather the ability to run at all. The chamber work is even worse, not only is it uneven its not even round, but with the level of grinder control demonstrated by his uneven removal of the quench pads, he could of quite easily ground past the limits of the fire ring on the gasket and that would of led to gasket failure right there. But investigating your photos of the chambers it looks like you just got away with the proximity to the fire ring.

The shimming was a big failure on your behalf, you were told to install one size of shim....the biggest. I would of stopped right there and questioned how every shim could be exactly the same size (I use cnc equipment to do this, and even then they can be 0.5-1 thou between shims), and he also said that it wasn't enough to take up the clearance. You said you checked the clearance, but didnt measure.........that my friend is not checking the clearances. With valve motion, acceleration rates and shock loading can double with even an excessive clearance of 10 thou or so. Without the correct clearances, your cams are not doing what they are meant to be doing, and controlling valve motion. I think that this is part of the reason your valve failed. With excessive clearances the valve would not seat itself in a controlled manner and probably hit the seat with excessive speed and bounced around like crazy, this MAY have led to fatigue failure of the head falling off. 

I personally have never experienced any quality issues with supertech products, they do their jobs just fine. And their valves are one piece, so they are not joint at the area you describe, the waisted stem does not mean its a weak piece. Go have a look at 4mm motorcycle valves that operate at double the rpm. And their exhaust stem seals certainly dont 'suck'.......maybe the fact that you didnt have them in your engine and he installed some stock type seals might be a point of discussion with him.

Valve guides ALWAYS tighten when installed, so you ALWAYS have to hone them to a finished size once installed. Guides should be running a clearance of about 0.001" on the valve stem.

You dont know what piston/valve clearance you were running, or piston/head clearance. And you ask Andy what gasket thickness to run? How is he supposed to know unless you provide him data that is of any use, and peak lift valve data is useless as it has no relevance. 

At peak lift, the valve is nowhere near the piston, the piston only gets close to the valve in the 25deg BTDC and ATDC, and if you dont measure that, you wont know if you need to adjust gasket thickness. But with it being a turbo and running comparatively mild cams in the grand scheme of things, piston/valve proximity isnt going to be an issue (using kelfords 272 deg cams as a rough approximation of valve timing and lift postion)......so valve cut outs on the piston arent needed......so dont worry about them. However, do measure piston/head clearance and make sure its no less than 1mm for you own sake. 

Oh, and the black inlet ports you have is carbon residue, not oil.....and this is because of the poor valve seat job performed. The crap on the back of the valve is again proof that the valves were not sealing and the engine was either breathing heavy or had a lot of carbon/fuel residue blow past the seat.

I've lost track of what else is wrong, but basically this engine was a cluster fu*k from the start. 

All I can say, and this is because I want you to have the engine you want and enjoy it, is please please please DO NOT use that cylinder head, its just not worth it....you'll make more power with a stock one and it wont cause you any stupid problems.

Get someone who really, honestly knows how to build the engine you want. Tell him the spec you want and let them do the whole job, dont get involved with assembly as your lack of knowledge has cause just as many problems as the poor machining and assembly. 

Apologies if this sounded harsh, but the failure was entirely an build problem, and the fact that it failed on the 3rd pull is testament to this.


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

BenR...One of the best post's ever !!! :clap:


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## skylinegts2gtr (Jan 24, 2007)

and its only his 3rd post! lol


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Wise words from BenR there....

pretty much sums it up IMHO.




> and its only his 3rd post! lol


Indeed, one to watch for the future methinks :chuckle: A rising star....

TT


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

LOL! BenR welcome to the forum!


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Lay it out there BenR!

I can't talk with my engine problem......but yeah, start again with someone who knows what they are doing, or buy a crate motor!


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## brett (Jun 3, 2007)

So shall it be written, so shall it be done. Well done Ben.


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