# So, is a 600hp gtr faster then a 600hp Skyline GTR



## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

Here is wat keeps my mind bussy for some days now. I drove a 600hp gtr the other day and it felt out of this world fast. No lag or "wait for it, wait for it..... now powerrrrrr". I liked it alot. It's a real drive license killer tbh. 

My Skyline gtr has around 438 hp and is fun to drive but now i have seen the light, lol. 

What buggles me is, can i feel the same sensation in a 600 hp Skyline gtr? Or it's not even close. keep in mind my car is 200kg lighter. 

Share your experience with me 
sould i go for it?


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## f5twister (Feb 5, 2013)

skyline feels faster.

Nl : snelheidsbeleving in een r35 is veel slomer ook al rij je al heel hard.


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## willgts (Jul 17, 2004)

As you mentioned, the Skyline has a clear weight advantage, so I would guess that 'in gear' acceleration would be faster than the R35. However, the lightening quick changes of DCT gearbox will destroy that advantage. I imagine it would be pretty close, but think the R35 would be quicker. Happy to be proven wrong though...

Power delivery would be worlds apart making the R35 more pleasurable to drive, depending on your tastes.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Wait are you looking to buy an R35 or just want to find out which is going to be faster at 600hp with the same tyres etc? Go for the R35 if you liked it more but take a test drive or something to make your mind up 100%. The newer technology in the R35 is what makes it a better car overall imo, but the Skylines are still up there!


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

In a straight line like for like it'd be about the same... As said the weight advantage is lost by the manual gear change - also the 35 is more streamlined.
Initial pick up at low revs is much better in the 35 though. 

There's a naughty vid on YouTube of a 35 racing a 32 on the road and there doesn't seem to be much in it.

In my experience on a track however, the 35's seem slower.

In fact with 'only' 500 ish bhp my 32 on road tyres has done quite well on track and sprints against 35's with a lot more power


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Yeah check this - kuf knows what speed they're doing!

Being slightly biased I know which one looks and sounds better   

35 is probably quite standard though, much more efficient at getting the power down, so effortless.. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OW1xUtAHjw0


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

git-r said:


> In a straight line like for like it'd be about the same... As said the weight advantage is lost by the manual gear change - also the 35 is more streamlined.
> Initial pick up at low revs is much better in the 35 though.
> 
> There's a naughty vid on YouTube of a 35 racing a 32 on the road and there doesn't seem to be much in it.
> ...


The R35's needed a better driver then!

It's facts, even a 600 BHP Skyline can't compete off the line or in the corners the same as an equivalent R35.

Look at the 0-60 and "Ring" times.


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

Saifskyline said:


> Wait are you looking to buy an R35 or just want to find out which is going to be faster at 600hp with the same tyres etc? Go for the R35 if you liked it more but take a test drive or something to make your mind up 100%. The newer technology in the R35 is what makes it a better car overall imo, but the Skylines are still up there!


Thanks for the replys guys.
In short: I want my skyline gtr push my back to the seat just the way the 600 gtr i drove did. will 550-600hp be enough to feel the same amount gees? (G)
i dont want to buy a gtr as i have a skyline gtr.


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

Trev said:


> The R35's needed a better driver then!
> 
> It's facts, even a 600 BHP Skyline can't compete off the line or in the corners the same as an equivalent R35.
> 
> Look at the 0-60 and "Ring" times.


so what do you think?
does a 600hp skyline gtr feel as fast as a 600hp nissan gtr?


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

headline numbers mean nothing, 600bhp from a 2.6 is not the same as 600bhp from a 3.8 - it is all about area under the curve.


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

Simonh said:


> headline numbers mean nothing, 600bhp from a 2.6 is not the same as 600bhp from a 3.8 - it is all about area under the curve.


So nissan gtr is allot faster with the same power?
i don't care if gtr wins. all i want is to feel that fast. :chuckle:
i don't do drag races.


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

what does this video proves? it looks like they are equal fast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpQsHoOMht8

I want to do a stage 2 upgrade with turbo's and stoff but will it be that fast as the gtr i drove?


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## Alex C (Aug 10, 2005)

R35 has a huge advantage with its displacement, and has grunt everywhere and a fantastic gearbox to seamlessly keep it right in the meat of the powerband.

Not much point chasing that in a Skyline imo, its from a different era and should be appreciated for what it is. 

By the time you've spent the money on improving the RB26 and all the ancillaries to the level where outright performance is matched, you'll still be in a car several generations older and be in used R35 territory anyway.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

I think it will depend on how you get 600hp. If you stick a giant turbo on your skyline, then it will likely feel faster as you have to get through a tonne of lag. It will in reality be slower. 

If you have mods done to improve low down power, spool and ultimatly mid range torque then it could stand a chance. The feeling of speed is freely available with a terribly chosen turbo but it will make for a car that is horrible to drive and useless on anything other than a straight road.

I think for a similar comparison of speed you would need 700hp and still anything with a corner is likely to favour the GT-R


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

Right. thanks guys.
I think the best way to understand this is to find a 550-600hp skyline gtr and take it for a drive. judge it my self.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Trev said:


> The R35's needed a better driver then!
> 
> It's facts, even a 600 BHP Skyline can't compete off the line or in the corners the same as an equivalent R35.
> 
> Look at the 0-60 and "Ring" times.


I must have my facts wrong then  

Steve sutcilffe is a pretty good driver in my book, certainly a lot better than me! - he was over a second slower than my 32 at brands in the '13 R35 GTR. 

Evo mag got the same lap time from a standard R34 as the 35 in a recentish test - can't remember where exactly but do remember being quite surprised at the result. 

On the other hand Martin would run rings round my 32 but his car is on another level!


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I personally think a 600bhp r32 would be very similar to a 600bhp r35 the r35 has quick gear changes and better power delivery but the r32 is lighter so that makes up for it.


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## Alex C (Aug 10, 2005)

I think that test was a very tight track in the wet, not favouring weight and putting the R35 at a disadvantage.

But I agree a well sorted R23/33/34 GTR ~480-530 whp can match lap times or better an R35, but I think only once very familiar with the car. And a tuned R35 is a different car again.

On the road, especially if you don't know it and are driving well (e.g. safe), the R35 is a chunk quicker due to the accessibility of its performance.

It means lame drivers like me can jump in a GTR and be really quick everywhere, but getting the best out of a Skyline is more of a challenge and dare I say it more interactive and fun? 

But then I like a heel and toe that I have executed, and am stuck in the 90s anyway!


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Very close

http://youtu.be/J57csjnPADk


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> I personally think a 600bhp r32 would be very similar to a 600bhp r35 the r35 has quick gear changes and better power delivery but the r32 is lighter so that makes up for it.


You are correct. I was with Sam at Snetterton and honestly he was quicker than many of the R35s despite Sam having 235/45/17 Kumho tyres? Vs 888s. 

GTR is rapid but it takes more credit than the driver as they are so much easier to drive at speed. We're talking of a car that is 20 years ahead in R&D so no surprises but the R32/33/34 can do well against one on track and sometimes beat them. I know what I would have and it wouldn't be a GTR for driving pleasure and enjoyment. RB26 and a Skyline all the way.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I should say can do well against one on same or similar power.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Well as AlexC mentioned above, you have to choose what you prefer, the 32/33/34 require more driver input where as the 35 has latest technology and engineering into it which means anyone can sit in there and drive it. 

At the end of the day if you feel like the 35 is the car for you go for it


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## Dan Parker (May 17, 2012)

I have owned 2 r32gtrs (600hp and 650hp) and been out in a 500+hp GTR
You said you wanted to know what felt faster.
The skyline will feel a lot faster in my opinion as the power to weight ratio is a lot better.
Also the seamless gear change makes the r35 feel slower as its so smooth.
The GTR will destroy the skyline from standstill and at lower rpm so you will have to work a lot harder to be fast in the skyline.
The lightweight skyline will be better on the brakes again due to weight as the vid showed.
Both amazing cars, Just depends what you want to do with them.
Would be interesting to see what the fastest time a GTR has run around Tsukuba, the fastest I've seen is a 59 sec, anyone seen faster?


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

Saifskyline said:


> Well as AlexC mentioned above, you have to choose what you prefer, the 32/33/34 require more driver input where as the 35 has latest technology and engineering into it which means anyone can sit in there and drive it.
> 
> At the end of the day if you feel like the 35 is the car for you go for it


All i need is the acceleration that 35 had. My skyline has very much the same handeling feel as the 09 gtr i drove had. I drive on HKS hipermax and 10 wide tyres 18" wheels. Grip feels the same i have to say. But 438hp feels slow now after driving the 600hp gtr. haha
i just want to have the same pull as gtr had. Don't care about corners because it can't mach it unless i make it a time attack munster which i don't need for daily use.


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

Dan Parker said:


> Would be interesting to see what the fastest time a GTR has run around Tsukuba, the fastest I've seen is a 59 sec, anyone seen faster?


the mines r33 gtr did it in 58ish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpmVpF78GAM


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## gts-james (Apr 16, 2015)

for what its worth haha, I did a little highway pull with a R35 against my r32 gtst (built swapped rb25 making 450WHP) and i had the gtr until about 260km/h than he walked me.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Tinoush said:


> so what do you think?
> does a 600hp skyline gtr feel as fast as a 600hp nissan gtr?


Feels faster, more wind noise etc.

Technology is 25 years apart though.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

git-r said:


> I must have my facts wrong then
> 
> Steve sutcilffe is a pretty good driver in my book, certainly a lot better than me! - he was over a second slower than my 32 at brands in the '13 R35 GTR.
> 
> ...


Well seeing as it was him - good effort Sir!


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Btw.

This thread NEEDS as to what has been done to the Skyline to make 600 BHP to judge.

If left on standard brakes forget about even making the first corner!!!


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I'll nominate Buster in his mega responsive 580bhp R33 GTR. I might have to lend him my R35 brakes though


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## bkvj (Feb 13, 2006)

I also think it depends how you got to the power. If you use the newest tech turbos (i.e. EFR6255), modern new tech brakes, you have new tech tires, your bushes aren't worn yadda yadda yadda they'll be quite close together if both have 600 flywheel hp. 

A 600hp skyline with an old T78, brembo upgraded brakes, bushes that where last done 10 years ago, it'll feel old, slower etc etc.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Tinoush said:


> All i need is the acceleration that 35 had. My skyline has very much the same handeling feel as the 09 gtr i drove had. I drive on HKS hipermax and 10 wide tyres 18" wheels. Grip feels the same i have to say. But 438hp feels slow now after driving the 600hp gtr. haha
> i just want to have the same pull as gtr had. Don't care about corners because it can't mach it unless i make it a time attack munster which i don't need for daily use.



The answer to your question is yes you r32 with 600bhp will feel/accelerate as fast as a gtr


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> You are correct. I was with Sam at Snetterton and honestly he was quicker than many of the R35s despite Sam having 235/45/17 Kumho tyres? Vs 888s.
> 
> GTR is rapid but it takes more credit than the driver as they are so much easier to drive at speed. We're talking of a car that is 20 years ahead in R&D so no surprises but the R32/33/34 can do well against one on track and sometimes beat them. I know what I would have and it wouldn't be a GTR for driving pleasure and enjoyment. RB26 and a Skyline all the way.


After going in a r35 at the asda charity day I honestly think a early skyline could match the 35 gtr but it would take a lot more skill as the 35 does it so effortlessly. After my dad went in a 650 bhp 35 and then my 33 he said I was defiantly going as fast if not faster bearing in mind it was only my third lap. But it's a fairly fast track and I found it suited my setup very well as I was allways in the rpm range I have very good response. Put in a couple of real slow corners and the 35 would pull away but then I havnt got the best setup for all out response just a compromise of the best i thought I could get.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Out of the slower corners punching out the R35 would out drag most that's where it's all about the traction and drivability. If everyone is on more or less the same driving skill it's easier to compare like on the Japanese videos where the Mines R34 was only about .5 sec slower than the R35. 

Dan is yours a V spec? On track a front LSD would help too.


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## K66 SKY (Jan 25, 2005)

*This question puzzled me for a long time too...BUT Not anymore!*

When Evo magazine published this a while ago....



I too wondered what a more powerful Skyline GT-R would be like against standard Nissan GT-R. If a 320bhp/340bhp R34 can match an R35 in the wet, Surely a 500bhp or more powerful Skyline was more than a match in the dry?!:runaway:

For quite a long time I'd only sat in various different model year Nissan GT-R's but never experienced what all the fuss was about _UNTIL_ last Month when I got to finally pop my R35 cherry in this September 2014 vehicle at the Newtown Motors Forresters Evening!







Not the best pictures _(granted)_ but this standard 542bhp R35 allowed me to directly compare its performance with my much older 520bhp R33, Even our Torque outputs were similar(ish) with the heavy R35 having a slightly larger 465lbsft V's my lighter cars 430lbsft. Nissan lies about its true vehicle weights as my Non V-Spec Import R33 is 1655kgs, God only knows if the R35 is actaully the claimed 1740kgs but again the online performance calculator says that the New R35's 311.5bhp/Tonne performance is unbelievably close to my Old R33's 314.4bhp/Tonne power output.

So what did I learn overall that evening? Well...I really loved the R35's Brakes, Its grip was phenominal to the point of being boring and the Reversing camera system with its trick green/red box was a fantastic gimmick I'd love on my old R33 but I was still *NOT* an R35 Nissan GT-R convert!

For starters, How can a physically much larger in size R35 be more resrictive inside than the R33 is? Yeah more Airbags and better Saftey cells yadder, yadder but I honestly felt cramped almost to the point of being claustrophobic sat in that Nissan GT-R. The back seats are a joke and no good to anyone who actually has legs. Steering feel was good but not better or worse than the Skylines.

As good as the New 3799cc V6 is, Its increased Torque couldn't make up for the natural _"Rev'vy-ness"_ of the Older more fun RB26 unit and so _(for me at least)_ this was not as enjoyable to use. I know I'll take stick for that comment but the way my Skylines straight six engine races around to 8k+ is always a giggle for both passengers and I alike and I guess I was expecting the same from the R35's V6 lump, Which never really happened with its less than 7k rev limit. It almost felt restricted or restrained when forced to go into the higher regions of the rev range??

Off the mark from a complete standstill, Yes the R35 would take a an R32/R33/R34 Skyline GT-R thanks to its super trick lightening quick gearbox but when you are already moving at moderate road speeds and the pedals were smashed into their respective carpets _(BTW...I didn't like the two pedal only R35, No fun allowed in Grandad Spec fully automated shifts!)_...It was pretty much a dead heat - Yup a bloody draw even with an old manual box thrown in to this equation!!!

Although it was a relative short testdrive route we'd taken, It was on local roads I've used almost daily since passing my driving test. Even with the R35's phenomenal Braking performance and other Worldly levels of grip, Overall point to point It was no faster than my Skyline GT-R is. In fact on one stretch of road we used where the cambers change abruptly, the by now boring Nissan GT-R just hunkered down threw itself down the small hill without even a hint of drama where as my Skyline GT-R kicks its arse out a touch and tries to kill me if I dare to back off or show less that 110% commitment at that exact point! 

And its this louder, higher reving, screaming fear inducing, I'm gonna kill you vibe that makes my R33 much more enjoyable on a thrilling level that the R35 just cannot match. All Skyline GT-R's are an enigma! The Nissan GT-R is an excellent machine buts its just way too easy to go quickly in all the time and anyone can access this and drive it this way which makes it no fun for me as I didn't get a performance rush from it I was expecting from this _(sadly)_ joyless performance car!

By the way...I'm no Sterling Moss here but surviving an epic day out driving my Skyline gives me a sense of achievement buzz that I utterly lacked in the R35. Add in to the equation the rarity and exclusivity that the Skyline GT-R has over the _"anyone can still buy a new Nissan GT-R"_ and so the R35 again looses out to the older vehicles on kudos as well. For me personally, £76,610 would be better spent on something else other than Nissan's new Flagship R35 GT-R....The dream of Owning one just doesn't appeal to me.

JM2PW!


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

K66 Sky - really enjoyed reading your post - great language and writing  

To the OP - I'm sure you realised you were opening a titanic sized can of worms here but the simple fact is; a lot of R35 owners come from cars like: Mercedes Amg, Audi RS* and other cars that are only really designed for one thing... Going fast in a straight line... Which is a crying shame imho! 

The R35 offers cornering and braking abilities in a different league to almost any supercar... 

Other than the R32    





One other thing... 

At the last MLR sprint I did.. During the wet part of the day (the most telling results are told here), which car was quickest? 

You guessed it


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Sorry, but had to do this :

Look at that big bloater getting in my way... In my daily too! 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vv98RTNScw

I could go on, and on....


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Ps, too many beers here  

Sorry!


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Oh and that was with the very intrusive dsc turned on... Off was much more fun... And quicker without the messing about.. 

Still can't believe I got banned from all msv track days ....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dTqVU6gcp2I


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## K66 SKY (Jan 25, 2005)

*Can of Worms indeed.....*



git-r said:


> *Sorry, but had to do this :
> 
> Look at that big bloater getting in my way... In my daily too!
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you mean git-r!:chuckle:

Who doesn't like an underdog punching well above its weight! Admittedly I'm also another one of those people who read all the car magazines and such who hyped up the Nissan GT-R's and gave them an almost mythical status from the get go. Even now, You keep hearing stuff like _*"Godzilla - Reborn", Porsche 911 Killer etc, etc*_ and so I once truly expected the R35's driving experience to be entirely on another level completely to the Skyline GT-R's. Ok, Its good and all that but it just doesn't stirr the soul! Shame...

I mean...Who in their right mind wouldn't expect big things when the blown VR38DETT engines are in essence a whole 1.2L Volkswagen Polo larger in cylinder capacity than the old 2568cc straight six RB26DETT lump is....and yet no matter which way you look at it Today in the real World _(contrary to what all these expert Fan-Boy car journalists say)_ a tuned up 2.6L Dinosaur GT-R _*CAN*_ go toe to toe with this mighty modern 3.8L V6 Techno wizardry GT-R blow by blow like its the Rocky Balboa of the Automotive World!!!:bowdown1:

Maybe this is why so many R35 Owners instantly up their cars performance potential to 650bhp+ or more?! Not because this is easy and a relatively cheap modification to do but because this essential power increase is what is required to make these Motors come alive when provoked by their Drivers?? Sadly I cannot comment further on this theory because I've not yet driven a higher powered Nissan GT-R _but if an R35 Owner wants to show off their 800bhp/1000bhp/1200bhp Monsters and prove to me that my current opinion and love of all the ancient RB engined Nissan's is wrong, I'd be more than happy to endulge myself in the experience._:thumbsup:

opcorn:


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## Dan Parker (May 17, 2012)

Tinoush said:


> the mines r33 gtr did it in 58ish
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpmVpF78GAM


Not skyline, GTR

The fastest skyline I think is 55.9secs

I'm sure no GTR has gone faster than that


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Love it - excellent post and great reading - nice one :bowdown1:






K66 SKY said:


> I know exactly what you mean git-r!:chuckle:
> 
> Who doesn't like an underdog punching well above its weight! Admittedly I'm also another one of those people who read all the car magazines and such who hyped up the Nissan GT-R's and gave them an almost mythical status from the get go. Even now, You keep hearing stuff like _*"Godzilla - Reborn", Porsche 911 Killer etc, etc*_ and so I once truly expected the R35's driving experience to be entirely on another level completely to the Skyline GT-R's. Ok, Its good and all that but it just doesn't stirr the soul! Shame...
> 
> ...


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

same old same old, some skyline owners always trying to have a pop at the R35.... jealousy is a green eyed monster! But WHY even be like this on a GTR forum? why cant some skyline owners embrace the latest incarnation of the GTR?? I appreciate and respect the heritage of the skylines, totally. So why not vice versa for the evolution of the GTR?

I expect other forums to have a pop at the R35 or the skylines, but not inhouse.. friendly banter yes, but some go beyond that. sad for the community, very sad.

remember the r35 is a beast out the box, whereas the skylines need to be heavily tuned to match it, which is fine as they are older beasts and its not a fair comparison at stock.

Hell any car could match the r35 as long it is tuned highly enough, like an R35 can match a veyron if it is tuned highly enough

so again pointless argument!


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## Alex C (Aug 10, 2005)

I don't think anyone's having a pop are they? Just giving opinions vs. the original post.

I also happened to drive an R35 very recently, something I've been waiting to do for a long time. And whilst I agree with a lot of the comments above regarding how it felt, it was absolutely f8cking brilliant in my view and left me with serious want (it was always the danger!).

My issue in making that decision recently is that I couldn't afford one without serious compromises elsewhere and getting into finance, which I don't want to do. And its doesn't fit in my garage! 

But the OP has felt the thrust of a 600Bhp R35 and wants to get the same feeling in a Skyline - as discussed it can be done, but in the end it will always be a 25yr old design vs a 7 year old design and without doubt you cannot re-create that capability and modern advancement in chassis stiffness, braking stability etc without silly money, after which as said you should just buy the R35.

What the R35 doesn't offer it the rawness and old school excitement of the skyline, which its not designed to, as it just wouldn't sell to the current populous and I'm sure to many on here is something they just don't want. It can no doubt offer a different kind of thrill once tuned.

I'm sure that had the internet existed like it is now in 1993, the same debate would be raging about the R32 vs. KPG10!


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

The original post was about creating the same thrust, not a comparison of the cars. 

I think a consideration with a number of the posts above is that they have tested against a standard car and raced or driven against in the wet. This includes the evo mag review.

I would say that the OEM tyres are very very poor in the wet which makes this an unfair test. It's like driving on ice. When I imported my R32 it was on Bridgestones that were also very poor in the wet (dangerously so). The principle is the same.






git-r said:


> Sorry, but had to do this :
> 
> Look at that big bloater getting in my way... In my daily too!
> 
> ...


It's wet. If that car is on runflats then you should have flown past 






git-r said:


> Ps, too many beers here
> 
> Sorry!


Yes



K66 SKY said:


> Maybe this is why so many R35 Owners instantly up their cars performance potential to 650bhp+ or more?! Not because this is easy and a relatively cheap modification to do but because this essential power increase is what is required to make these Motors come alive when provoked by their Drivers??


I think the car really does come alive with the stage 1 - 4 mods. My car should be called big daddy as it loves to wrestle! Very engaging and fairly easily provoked. I get a lot of enjoyment.

I think the 600hp - 650hp mod route is very accessable and is the same as when I upgraded my R32 to 400hp (1 bar, filters, exhaust and ECU). Lets not forget, the standard skyline with circa 280bhp was / is not fast.



K66 SKY said:


> Sadly I cannot comment further on this theory because I've not yet driven a higher powered Nissan GT-R _but if an R35 Owner wants to show off their 800bhp/1000bhp/1200bhp Monsters and prove to me that my current opinion and love of all the ancient RB engined Nissan's is wrong, I'd be more than happy to endulge myself in the experience._:thumbsup:
> 
> opcorn:


Unlikely after the R35 bashing you have dished out in this thread :chuckle:



Chronos said:


> I expect other forums to have a pop at the R35 or the skylines, but not inhouse.. friendly banter yes, but some go beyond that. sad for the community, very sad.


I agree 



Alex C said:


> I'm sure that had the internet existed like it is now in 1993, the same debate would be raging about the R32 vs. KPG10!


You don't need to go that far back. Every other marque used to say the same about the Skyline (eg drives itself, no driver involvement, all computers). And then the Skyline GT-R brigade would look down their noses at the GTT / GTS etc. Then ontop of that, the R34 brigade would look down their noses at everyone else. 

Oh how things change. Still, we can all look forward to ganging together and bashing the R36 when it comes. Likely to be out of my price range - so I can congregate with the skyline peasants (joking) and say how the hybrid tech is just no good LOL Not like it used to be.... What can you do with 800hp :chuckle:


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

It's banter as far as I'm concerned... Nothing to do with the OP's question but an entertaining read, threads like this always go this way. There are many things wrong with 'skylines' that would be easy pickings for some pi$$ taking - should I start things off?? 


- 'The Bloater Beater'


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

git-r said:


> It's banter as far as I'm concerned... Nothing to do with the OP's question but an entertaining read, threads like this always go this way. There are many things wrong with 'skylines' that would be easy pickings for some pi$$ taking - should I start things off??
> 
> 
> - 'The Bloater Beater'


- 'The Bloater Beater' 
- 'You're a dick'



It's banter as far as I'm concerned...


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Er, that's personal - not about the car... 

I must be missing something.. 

Care to explain?


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

git-r said:


> Er, that's personal - not about the car...
> I must be missing something..
> Care to explain?


It's banter as far as I'm concerned... Hence the


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Chronos said:


> *jealousy* is a green eyed monster! But WHY even be like this on a GTR forum?


I don't think it's jealousy at all, I had an R35 and now have an R32 as I wanted a bit of a change (with a bit of a gap in the middle) and pretty much prefer the experience of the R32 to the R35. That said, I would have another R35 tomorrow but have a few other more pressing purchases to attend to in the meantime. Just because Skyline owners haven't embraced the R35, why does that make them jealous? Next you'll be telling them that they probably couldn't afford one anyway:chuckle:

Sam is a confirmed R32 nut as are a lot of the guys on here but it doesn't make them jealous or less enthusiastic about the brand than yourself.

Have a nice day


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## isub (Mar 18, 2013)

*So, is a 600hp gtr faster then a 600hp Skyline GTR*

Yes.

I think this post can be locked now


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

TAZZMAXX said:


> I don't think it's jealousy at all, I had an R35 and now have an R32 as I wanted a bit of a change (with a bit of a gap in the middle) and pretty much prefer the experience of the R32 to the R35. That said, I would have another R35 tomorrow but have a few other more pressing purchases to attend to in the meantime. Just because Skyline owners haven't embraced the R35, why does that make them jealous? Next you'll be telling them that they probably couldn't afford one anyway:chuckle:
> Sam is a confirmed R32 nut as are a lot of the guys on here but it doesn't make them jealous or less enthusiastic about the brand than yourself.
> Have a nice day


Well its strange how the R35 owners appreciate and respect the heritage of the 32/33/34, however there seems to be some bitterness towards the R35 from the skyline owners a lot of the time, which is real sad, seems as this is a GTR forum. www.gtr.co.uk 

As people have said, I suppose we will get the same when the R36 turns up, it costs too much, why need 800 bhp?, battery power sucks, and so on.. 

However i do think the R35 deserves some respect from the skyline owners for the capability's it has, tho it delivers it in a different way, but it can still scare the big boys, out the box! after 7 years in production.. and is relatively cheap for the performance you get.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Ahh I see... 

Not the most entertaining or original banter but a start and better than nothing I guess..

I'd couldnt argue with your point though and my long suffering other half would be in complete agreement. 
It's actually quite a compliment compared to the usual human genitallia slang of the female variety that I get called by my friends.. 

less about me though...

Anything more on the 'dirty poo 32 bloater floater beater'???


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Maybe we should bring Flynn back :chuckle:


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Think maybe Chronos didn't understand one of my intended meanings of beater? 

Beater as in the American for your daily car that is not very good, worthless and a piece of crap... Ties in well with my floater banter.. In case I needed to explain


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Chronos said:


> Well its strange how the R35 owners appreciate and respect the heritage of the 32/33/34, however there seems to be some bitterness towards the R35 from the skyline owners a lot of the time, which is real sad, seems as this is a GTR forum. www.gtr.co.uk
> 
> As people have said, I suppose we will get the same when the R36 turns up, it costs too much, why need 800 bhp?, battery power sucks, and so on..
> 
> However i do think the R35 deserves some respect from the skyline owners for the capability's it has, tho it delivers it in a different way, but it can still scare the big boys, out the box! after 7 years in production.. and is relatively cheap for the performance you get.


Nothing to be jealous about the R35 are a great car modern and very quick and is a true performance car but has so many electronic aids it dumbs the experience. Skylines are simply more of a drivers car where you experience what makes a GTR. Just remember if there was no R32 ther would be no R33 34 and you would have still been in your old Evo. 

Sam has every right to share his experience and I was with him and saw first had how he gave some 600-700bhp R35s a serious challenge. I believe he came less than a second or so off a 700BHP R35 with R888s.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Maybe we should bring Flynn back :chuckle:


Don't threaten me! :chuckle:



git-r said:


> Think maybe Chronos didn't understand one of my intended meanings of beater?
> Beater as in the American for your daily car that is not very good, worthless and a piece of crap... Ties in well with my floater banter.. In case I needed to explain


of course, its all bants 



FRRACER said:


> Nothing to be jealous about the R35 are a great car modern and very quick and is a true performance car..


Well said, and as I've said I appreciate and respect the heritage of the 32/33 and 34, and skyline owners should respect what the R35 can do albeit in a different way, would it be different if it was called a skyline R35?? hmmmmm, I presume the skyline owners will come to love the R35 as well, once the R36 hits, then we can all hate that..:chuckle:

I also drive on occasion a lower power car, under 300bhp thats manual and light, and yes its easier to chuck round, its fun to drive and you have to work the car harder, to get the power thrill through the gears, BUT I also love the ease of how the R35 just eats tarmac, and snaps your neck off in all the gears, the simple tap and snap you get from the car is intoxicating fun, and as we all know at any of the stages 1-4 this really brings the mid-top end alive as well, and is relatively cheap to do upto stage 4, for the gains you get.. bottom end is just crazy out the box as is.


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## SPEEDKING777 (Jul 17, 2014)

My EVO is better than both :bowdown1:


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

I have run a 710 hp r33 gtr and have run my r35 gtr at approx 700 hp and there is no comparison, you are talking 600+ lbft everywhere against a peaky dinosaur with a h pattern box. 

performance wise there in another league, and before anyone says about all the mods on my car the motor is stock dimensions and running 1 bar of boost on gt30s for this comparison.

when I get time I can pull some logs and show an exact comparison.


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## SPEEDKING777 (Jul 17, 2014)

All this makes me want to get a 911 Turbo S


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## V-SpecII (Jan 14, 2008)

Chronos said:


> Well its strange how the R35 owners appreciate and respect the heritage of the 32/33/34.


They have to as its a 'true' Skyline. :chuckle:

On a serious note other performance car owners all look up to and highly respect the Skyline family.

I think the R35 lacks respect firstly as it's readily available making it not so Rare and can be purchased at any NHPC which means any typical type like Tom, Steve or Gary (non enthusiast) could own even if they were broke but had a good credit score etc. Another point is because its modern where as Skyline would receive respect by default being a much older car (old school/retro/classic). Nowadays theirs alot of other Modern fleet of cars (even family saloons) maybe not 'as fast' but possibly just as good/desirable (each to their own), and its likely they would be within a similar price range, and as its a Modern Performance Car you kind of expect it to be keeping up with the Jones and be fast, so the GTR doesn't really get the 'being ahead of its time' status as its predecessors did. 

Secondly the Skylines were alot more aggressive looking with sharp lines whereas the R35 was purposely meant for a much wider worldwide audience so alittle less subtle and modern looking (not saying it's ugly) :cough:cough: , but it's interesting as it seems like the lines on the 'Nismo R35' are similar like that of the older R34 GTR. 

JM2PW


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

scoooby slayer said:


> I have run a 710 hp r33 gtr and have run my r35 gtr at approx 700 hp and there is no comparison, you are talking 600+ lbft everywhere against a peaky dinosaur with a h pattern box.
> 
> performance wise there in another league, and before anyone says about all the mods on my car the motor is stock dimensions and running 1 bar of boost on gt30s for this comparison.
> 
> when I get time I can pull some logs and show an exact comparison.



I understand what your saying Carl the 35 is a great car and I for one am a massive fan of them. but how much does a stock car cost to get to your spec and I bet a skyline could be built same performance for less. A uprated clutch kit for a 35 is 8k for a clutch there's a seqential box for a early skyline and could change gear faster than the 35 box. 

I just couldn't jusstify the rip off prices people charge for r35 tunning parts but again that's not the cars fault at all.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

V-SpecII said:


> They have to as its a 'true' Skyline. :chuckle:
> 
> On a serious note other performance car owners all look up to and highly respect the Skyline family.
> 
> ...



I don't agree with that the 35 is probly the most respected car out of the skyline community you only have to look at the asda charity day the gtr stand had the biggest que by miles and hardly any of them would go in anything but a r35 gtr


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## peatough (Oct 6, 2001)

*skyline vs GTR*

Guys



Sorry but there's no way a skyline with 600hp is as quick as a 600hp gtr.

They are worlds apart. A more meaningful comparison is a 700hp RB26 vs a 600hp gtr. The rb26 would probably just edge it.

Regards

Pete


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Dont forget the weight difference. I think a 600bhp r32 is around 400bhp per ton, a 600bhp r35 is more like 345bhp per ton. That will level the playing field a fair amount.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I need to get my R32 to 600bhp and then take a challenge to a 600bhp GTR on track  that would be epic fun!

Granted a R35 GTR can change gears fast but a half decent driver with a H pattern box wouldn't be slow. The amount of times I have seen in car videos of people in a H patterns box and they up shifts are pretty slow. To be able to take the challenge to an R35 it's not just about power but the chassis and braking too. You can't compare a 700 single turbo straight line Skyline to a R35 GTR. It will leave you behind on track!


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

V-SpecII said:


> They have to as its a 'true' Skyline. :chuckle:
> 
> On a serious note other performance car owners all look up to and highly respect the Skyline family.
> 
> ...


What a load of drivel. Stop talking shit.


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

gtr mart said:


> What a load of drivel. Stop talking shit.


nothing to add to that you put it so well lol :chuckle:


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

For the sake of argument - let's put it to the test.. On a race track - not 1/4 mile as even I'd admit the 35 would be quicker in this situation. 

Who's game??? 

 

600 bhp 35 vs my 540bhp 32 on similar tyres ie not R888's or cut slicks.. 

I don't expect to be much quicker, but I don't expect to be much slower either - if it's much more than a second difference on a 1 min track I'll buy everyone a drink... 

If not we have to agree that all gtrs can be equally quick.

(Another long day... And many beers  )


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Anyone watched Groundhog Day recently?:chuckle:


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

scoooby slayer said:


> nothing to add to that you put it so well lol :chuckle:


- would you be up for this? 

- will buy you a drink either way


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> I understand what your saying Carl the 35 is a great car and I for one am a massive fan of them. but how much does a stock car cost to get to your spec and I bet a skyline could be built same performance for less. A uprated clutch kit for a 35 is 8k for a clutch there's a seqential box for a early skyline and could change gear faster than the 35 box.
> 
> I just couldn't jusstify the rip off prices people charge for r35 tunning parts but again that's not the cars fault at all.



the engines are in no way comparable mate, the area under the curve is huge its just power/torque everywhere. 

im fairly certain my 16 plate clutch kit is a lot less than £8k, a stage 4 gtr is faster than my r33 was, and the r33 was fairly highly strung and always breaking down. 
30-130 mph in 6.2 seconds would take an absolute beast of an rb26 and it would be in no way, shape or form anywhere near as driveable/useable as my r35, they simply aren't comparable imo unless you get to something like matt js car but that's top of the scale, a lot higher up the scale than my gtr.

bear in mind my head ports, cams, valve size, cr are all standard, even the stock gears remain in the transmission, its childsplay making big power with a vr38 compared to an rb26. 


I can totally understand the ops point of view, i felt the same of all the gtrs and the supra i had previous the r35 just blew them away on a whole other level, and all with a level of refinement that i had never experienced before, they are an engineering masterpiece imo.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

git-r said:


> For the sake of argument - let's put it to the test.. On a race track - not 1/4 mile as even I'd admit the 35 would be quicker in this situation.
> 
> Who's game???
> 
> ...


Me. Providing it's dry and I get a decent amount of practice laps then happy for the challenge.


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## SPEEDKING777 (Jul 17, 2014)

Oh shiiii.

Make sure you have this recorded. opcorn:


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Very good..

But I'll only race if it's wet.... 

Just kidding! 

When and where? 

Would need to be a cheapie for me I'm afraid..


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

If git-r wins, he should be modded. 

Ambassador for the 32.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

An utterly moot endeavour unless it's held at a venue similarly (un)familiar to you both and you drive each others cars to mitigate driver skill.


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

Raced both against each other in various acceleration tests... From stand still to 30-130 etc.
In fact i had 3 cars on test. My street 33 car running 640+bhp, my 33 race car weighing circa 1275kgs and 570bhp and my 35 running circa 570bhp.
Conclusion was...

The R35 pissed all over both of them in every respect. It's the torque of the 3.8 and the gearbox the 33's simply cannot live with. 
Although the pure race car was quicker in the bends on track.. But that's a different matter.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Hehe what does modded mean?

Like the sound of being an ambassador though.. Does that mean I get diplomatic immunity?? 

Ian that's completely true.. Guess we should really let a someone else drive our cars to do the test. Martin (Vernon Jones) would be a good candidate (although not sure I'd trust him to let a skyline win if that was going to be the the case), otherwise someone like Kouresh Khani the formula 2 driver would be good and might even do it for nothing... Would buy him beer but he doesn't drink :chuckle:

Would still be up for doing a track day or sprint with GTR Mart though, i doubt the difference will be much more than a second or two regardless of driver.


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## SPEEDKING777 (Jul 17, 2014)

Waiting on venue details....opcorn:


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

How about silverstone? Only been round it a few times, hence the need for practice laps. Happy to swap with you for a go in each others cars (once I destroy you that is  )


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## SPEEDKING777 (Jul 17, 2014)

This should be Pay Per View


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Kourosh Khani would be good and has no affiliation on any bias he would just go for it in both cars. One small problem he's in Dubai 

I'll call him later if this is a serious plan to get both tested back to back.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

git-r said:


> For the sake of argument - let's put it to the test.. On a race track - not 1/4 mile as even I'd admit the 35 would be quicker in this situation.
> 
> Who's game???
> 
> ...



Sam your forgetting the fastest 1/4 mile time for a skyline gtr is actually faster than a r35 gtr aswell I beleive.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

scoooby slayer said:


> the engines are in no way comparable mate, the area under the curve is huge its just power/torque everywhere.
> 
> im fairly certain my 16 plate clutch kit is a lot less than £8k, a stage 4 gtr is faster than my r33 was, and the r33 was fairly highly strung and always breaking down.
> 30-130 mph in 6.2 seconds would take an absolute beast of an rb26 and it would be in no way, shape or form anywhere near as driveable/useable as my r35, they simply aren't comparable imo unless you get to something like matt js car but that's top of the scale, a lot higher up the scale than my gtr.
> ...



Agree with you a r35 is a brilliant car full stop. A stage 4 car wouldn't beat a true 700bhp r33 i raced 700 bhp r35s and I was running medium boost setting what's around 750bhp and my 33 was quite a bit faster. Unless the bloke was lying about power but that doesn't prove much.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

FRRACER said:


> Kourosh Khani would be good and has no affiliation on any bias he would just go for it in both cars. One small problem he's in Dubai
> 
> I'll call him later if this is a serious plan to get both tested back to back.


Shall I bring my wife so he can shag her too?

I won't be supplying my car for someone else to rag around a race track. This is forum banter hopefully turning into a bit of fun.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

If you like watching you can do I'm sure he wouldn't say no lol


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

gtr mart said:


> Me. Providing it's dry and I get a decent amount of practice laps then happy for the challenge.


top man!! :thumbsup: :bowdown1:



gtr mart said:


> How about silverstone? Only been round it a few times, hence the need for practice laps. Happy to swap with you for a go in each others cars (once I destroy you that is  )


:chuckle::chuckle: Woo this is exiting!



FRRACER said:


> Kourosh Khani would be good and has no affiliation on any bias he would just go for it in both cars. One small problem he's in Dubai
> I'll call him later if this is a serious plan to get both tested back to back.


How do we know he's not a 32 secret lover tho? not trying to pull a, pardon the pun.. fast one are we?? ha ha


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

Some people have really inflated egos on this place! Many have shelled out tens of thousands of pounds on their GTR and think they are the king and when a proper test is presented some get all shitty about it and even willing to offer his wife as a shag for someone! Wtf! 

Making me have second thoughts about buying a GTR


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

rogerdavis said:


> Some people have really inflated egos on this place! Many have shelled out tens of thousands of pounds on their GTR and think they are the king and when a proper test is presented some get all shitty about it and even willing to offer his wife as a shag for someone! Wtf!
> 
> Making me have second thoughts about buying a GTR


I think sir, you have missed the point.


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

git-r said:


> Hehe what does modded mean?
> 
> Like the sound of being an ambassador though.. Does that mean I get diplomatic immunity??
> 
> ...


There should be no egos allowed in this test. Who is willing to donate their cars? Surely we need a criteria?


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

These threads crop up occasionally and there's always some controversy, mostly due to 











I've said it before, but for an unbiased driver you cannot beat Colin Hoad, who over the last 8 or 9 years has likely driven more 32/33/34/35 GT-Rs - from OE to GT1 - than anybody else on here.


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)




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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Evo magazine are running a How Fast event - you will be timed around Bedford Autodrome circuit.

My 32 won't be ready by then, plus I'm a shit driver, but maybe you guys can sort something.

Maybe you can let the EVO team rag your cars......

Cheers,


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I think Richards ct17 car would be a good r32 to use has good brakes like a 35 and has 600 odd bhp so be a fair test there too


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Yeah Mine too not enough power but everything else is there brakes, suspension, chassis etc. 

Richards would be a good car to use.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Yeah Mine too not enough power but everything else is there brakes, suspension, chassis etc.
> 
> Richards would be a good car to use.


git-r made the challenge, so git-r use's his own car!!!!

why keep trying to change the car, don't you think git-r will win?? opcorn:


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

Cheers, You guys took my op to whole nother level LOL. I enjoyed reading every comment with a beer in my hand haha. I am looking forward to see this challenge. It's going to hit more than 1.000.000 viewers on youtube lol.

Anyway, i found a 650hp r33 gtr to get in. Mate of mine. I let you guys now how i feel about it.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Sam's car is not 600 bhp.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Chronos said:


> git-r made the challenge, so git-r use's his own car!!!!
> 
> why keep trying to change the car, don't you think git-r will win?? opcorn:



Well we can all bring our cars all book track time and all race see who has the best set up car, I'm up for it


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## SPEEDKING777 (Jul 17, 2014)

Tinoush said:


> Cheers, You guys took my op to whole nother level LOL. I enjoyed reading every comment with a beer in my hand haha. I am looking forward to see this challenge.


That's just how SERIOUS we are, have to make sure you get the correct info.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

I have a cunning plan.

I have run a number of runway days that include a gymkhana. The runway is about 1000 meters and could be used for making a track up that suits what we want to get out of it. We would also have control unlike on a track.

I would be prepared to organise this (probably with crafty_blade) and could do it for virtually no money. With say 20 cars it would only be about £80 per car. 

I would set up the course design with git-r and make sure it suits and tests both skyline and GT-R. I can also get a water browser  

Then maybe we can stay out for beers and to continue the debate of which car was best lol. 

Would be near to evesham / 30 mins from tewkesbur/litchfields imports.

How does that sound?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I personally think silverstonne would be a better option nicer track less stones on the track. How many cars would be neded to book the entire silverstonne track and what price would that be?


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

I will find out. But from experience it won't be cheap and would likely need to be mid week


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Snetterton 300 is also a good track with a mix of slow medium and fast corners with long straights. Good track to test these cars.


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

GTR mart idea sounds good.

It will be cheap & fun.

Yes, Silverstone would be nice, but if they got wind of any timing and cheap it ain't!!

I would be up for this if I can get my 32 sorted in time....


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## Lukes R35 GT-R (Mar 1, 2015)

On the track it boils down to driver skills

Side by side or a skyline chasing it on road the 35 is going to win the gearbox, the power under the curve, instant power it's all in the 35s favour


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

If you think it's that the R35 will win by miles and destroy the Skyline you need to watch this. The R34 held its own and was only slightly slower overall.

http://youtu.be/J57csjnPADk


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

There's no way a standard 35 gearbox is changing gear faster than my old 33.
Having owned a 35 for 18 months I can safely say there's no competition in it at all.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Gtr mart - that's a cunning plan indeed! This is the sort of thing we should do on a regular basis - at £80 we could open it up to the mlr and Subaru club if we needed some extra numbers.. 

How easy/difficult would it be for you to do this?

I'm sure we'd get quite a few from here to take part. 

Silverstone GP is very expensive but the smaller Silverstone circuits are much cheaper especially out of peak season.


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## Lukes R35 GT-R (Mar 1, 2015)

matt j said:


> There's no way a standard 35 gearbox is changing gear faster than my old 33.
> Having owned a 35 for 18 months I can safely say there's no competition in it at all.


That's a different kettle of fish lol


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

git-r said:


> Gtr mart - that's a cunning plan indeed! This is the sort of thing we should do on a regular basis - at £80 we could open it up to the mlr and Subaru club if we needed some extra numbers..
> 
> How easy/difficult would it be for you to do this?
> 
> ...


It's a massive pain in the ass. Luckily already been through it all so know exactly what's needed so not a problem to sort. Been chatting with mook a while ago, we could do it as a register thing. Keep the numbers down for this one and there will be plenty of runs for all involved. I like the idea of doing race of champions style or just pure timed runs. 

I have a contact at silverstone now, so will talk later about costs.

My preference for this would be our own thing though.


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

This looks good! 

Glad something has come out of the mine is faster than yours nonsense!!


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

gtr mart said:


> It's a massive pain in the ass. Luckily already been through it all so know exactly what's needed so not a problem to sort. Been chatting with mook a while ago, we could do it as a register thing. Keep the numbers down for this one and there will be plenty of runs for all involved. I like the idea of doing race of champions style or just pure timed runs.
> 
> I have a contact at silverstone now, so will talk later about costs.
> 
> My preference for this would be our own thing though.


Well no worries if it doesn't work out but certainly this would be a great event for all GTR's especially as it would have the option of doing a times course. 

might be easiest for us to just book onto a track day - there's a few members here that would be up for it so we could just start a new thread once we've decided on a date and location. 

There's nothing better than getting on track with other GTR's, R32 - R35 inclusive


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## DirtyTorquer (Sep 3, 2013)

I would be interested in something like this. 

Now need to get my dam car finished!


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I will also be Intrested so count me in


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Excellent - the more the merrier... Could be quite the event of the year


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

gtr mart said:


> Then maybe we can stay out for beers and to continue the debate of which car was best lol.


Obviously, in a more civilised fashion as we won't have the internet to hide behind:chuckle: Unless, of course, you can procure a mobile internet café so we can keep up a degree of nastiness. Keepin it real bro':chuckle:

It sounds a good crack, I'd be tempted to come along if it goes ahead.


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## DanRFC (Jul 24, 2012)




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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

I went out on a road trip with a couple from Glasgow and the stock one couldn't lose me but the supposedly 650r pulled away. Things tightened up when we got to the country roads though


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> Agree with you a r35 is a brilliant car full stop. A stage 4 car wouldn't beat a true 700bhp r33 i raced 700 bhp r35s and I was running medium boost setting what's around 750bhp and my 33 was quite a bit faster. Unless the bloke was lying about power but that doesn't prove much.



my gtr was 700 hp and did 30-130 in 9.7 seconds which is quick imo, a stage 4 gtr will manage that in 9.6 seconds. 

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/169077-litchfield-stage-4-real-world-performance.html

i have no biased, ive owned a few gtrs and it is clearly noticeable from the seat mate.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Did you have that figure verified by a couple of rolling roads? Some can read higher. Always good to get a couple of readings from two different places.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

A stage 4 is about 620 bhp not far off CT17 who is 630? Would be good to get his 30-130 time.


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

You could always enter the GTROC Sprints and compare the 600 Skyline with a 600GTR, officially timed using state of the art equipment so no arguments as to whether the watch was stopped early!


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Sam already did last year in his 540bhp Goose and we saw how close it was between him and Goldie. Plus Sam was using narrow Kumhos sure 888 would have been worth at least a second and if same did grip driving he would have made up another chunk of time.


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

FRRACER said:


> Sam already did last year in his 540bhp Goose and we saw how close it was between him and Goldie. Plus Sam was using narrow Kumhos sure 888 would have been worth at least a second and if same did grip driving he would have made up another chunk of time.


And at Castle Combe this year Nick Goss in his 600bhp R35 was 2secs quicker than Paul in his 730 bhp R33.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Paul I believe was having gearbox issues no? Also what tyres were both using?


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

FRRACER said:


> Paul I believe was having gearbox issues no? Also what tyres were both using?


That could have been when he was struggling with the synchro on one of the gears. I'm pretty sure Nick was on Michelin Super Sports, nothing exotic or track focused.
Paul would be a good one to comment as he owns his track prepared R33 and a stage 4 R35


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## MeisterR (Jul 19, 2008)

Having been in both car and went on track against a few, I can say the R35 is a machine!

Around the long "U turn" Luffield at the Silverstone Arena GP Circuit, my R32 was able to sustain 1.08G on Toyo R1R tyres.
A R35 on OEM tyres was about to sustain a 1.18G... So that kind of give you an idea on how much traction those thing have out of the box.

As other say, the Gearbox win races on the R35 because it is lighting quick and you can flat shift every time.
The torque the VQ38 made is immense, I wasn't any faster on the straight even though the R32 is lighter and I got an extra 100bhp at the top end.

The R35 is a great car, no question about it.
If you are going to compare time, you can clearly see where 20 years of automotive development went.

Which is why I have a R32 and sold the R35. 

Jerrick


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

By memory alone Dunsfold park where they filmed Top gear is £1000 a day and would be more than enough space, shared by 20 that's £50 per car plus insurance


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

Dunsfold aren't keen on renting to the public. 

I do have a location that have been used for the runway days. These have proven to be a lot of fun and it wouldn't be difficult to adapt the place to form a large auto test / gymkhana / track.

I will enquire with them about availability. Realistically looking at September.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

TREG said:


> By memory alone Dunsfold park where they filmed Top gear is £1000 a day and would be more than enough space, shared by 20 that's £50 per car plus insurance



That would be a brilliant venue, I'd be well up for it if it's a 1000 what would it matter if only 10 cars went


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

FRRACER said:


> Did you have that figure verified by a couple of rolling roads? Some can read higher. Always good to get a couple of readings from two different places.


it was run on abbeys dynapack and mgts dynapack, the only confusion comes from idiots adding ridiculous losses to the hub figures imo ! read properly there as good as any other


a far better way to verify power is by timeing the car imo, hence I do mine, and the power/torque and the lightning shifts are clearly visible on my v box plots, its linear acceleration that no old h pattern skyline will match pound for pound, no way hosay ! I don't need any poxy dyno to show me that, sitting in the seat I can feel it, and my v box verifys it


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

scoooby slayer said:


> it was run on abbeys dynapack and mgts dynapack, the only confusion comes from idiots adding ridiculous losses to the hub figures imo ! read properly there as good as any other
> 
> 
> a far better way to verify power is by timeing the car imo, hence I do mine, and the power/torque and the lightning shifts are clearly visible on my v box plots, its linear acceleration that no old h pattern skyline will match pound for pound, no way hosay ! I don't need any poxy dyno to show me that, sitting in the seat I can feel it, and my v box verifys it



On your v box from your 33 compared to 35 how much time would you say the 33 h pattern losses compared to 35 in 30-130 timed run? 

I had a


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

F3 vs GTR rather a odd comparison but interesting nevertheless

http://youtu.be/immAhFLr0RM


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## Lewis_08 (Jan 7, 2011)

I own both (600HP R34 and TS R35) , and i hate to say it but the GT-R would be faster.

It is a total beast.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

If you have 2 engines of equal power then I'm sure the Skyline would out perform the GTR.


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

R32 Combat said:


> If you have 2 engines of equal power then I'm sure the Skyline would out perform the GTR.



you will never get an rb26 of equal power to a vr38, maybe peak figures but not whole curve its physically impossible.


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> On your v box from your 33 compared to 35 how much time would you say the 33 h pattern losses compared to 35 in 30-130 timed run?
> 
> I had a



here you go mate, this is my best ever 30-130 of 9.76 in my r33 gtr blue run against one of my gtr 30-130 pulls red run I was running 810 hp 6800 rpm shifting but there was no launch involved just in d and hit throttle, which you can clearly see as the r33 takes a flying start, the only tiny blip in the r35 pull is the little hiccup where it shifts into second gear and theres a little wheelspin traction working its nuts off and not quite copeing I think





its not just the gear change, you have to back off throttle looseing acceleration time, then shift, then on throttle and wait for boost to come back up to full boost, all of that soon makes up quite a bit of time over 3 gear changes, its gotta be over half the time made up is in gear changes, and don't forget that's a piss poor pathetic start theres a good half a second to come off that if not more with a full bore 2.8 second 0-60 start


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

scoooby slayer said:


> here you go mate, this is my best ever 30-130 of 9.76 in my r33 gtr blue run


Those gear changes on your R33 seem to be really slow, even for a H-Pattern box, did it have an issue Carl?


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

matt j said:


> Those gear changes on your R33 seem to be really slow, even for a H-Pattern box, did it have an issue Carl?


it wasn't the easiest of boxes but no, slight issue with 4th synchro but it was no slower shifting in 4th as it was 2nd or 3rd, the big single did need a bit of time to get going again, bear in mind that's h pattern and off and on throttle with a gt40


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

I'd have thought you should be around 200-250ms on the H-Pattern but yours seems to be around 400+? and surely you're changing gear well in the power band so the GT40 should be happy?


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

matt j said:


> I'd have thought you should be around 200-250ms on the H-Pattern but yours seems to be around 400+? and surely you're changing gear well in the power band so the GT40 should be happy?



heres my supra just the same about 400 ms and she did shift nice I remember, it feels a lot quicker because the shift itself is quicker, its the off throttle and on throttle to get back to the speed at clutch down that takes as much time as the shift itself imo 





the gt40 is happy but its not instant full boost the millisecond I touch the throttle is it, and I drive within the capability of the vehicle I wont smash the stick in faster than the synchros will allow and [email protected]@$ it up, im a mechanic first before a fast car driver lol


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

I understand Carl, it just seems a very long shift time mate; I'm not picking fault at all, it was just an observation. 

From your quote:


scoooby slayer said:


> my gtr was 700 hp and did 30-130 in 9.7 seconds which is quick imo, a stage 4 gtr will manage that in 9.6 seconds.


Your 33 was giving away over 3/4 of a second to the 35 just in gear changes alone, never mind anything else.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

My logs look exactly the same Carl around .4 of a second loss in accellartion time lost every gear change. The standard gearbox are just not a fast shifting gearbox. 


Matt have you got a acceleration log from one of your 1/4 mile runs to see what time you gain over the 35?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

scoooby slayer said:


> you will never get an rb26 of equal power to a vr38, maybe peak figures but not whole curve its physically impossible.


I know, which kind of makes the OP question a tad pointless, does it not?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Some back ground information about shift times

Geartronics - Exploding the myths regarding shift times!

To lose 3/4 of a second in a few gear changes is a lot of time.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Interesting test.

https://youtu.be/X4HpD5K6Qws


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Some back ground information about shift times
> 
> Geartronics - Exploding the myths regarding shift times!
> 
> To lose 3/4 of a second in a few gear changes is a lot of time.



That's a good read that, and although a quick gear change will make a big diffremce on a timed speed run like a 30-130 it wouldn't so much on a 1/4 mile and even less on a track I would have thought


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> Matt have you got a acceleration log from one of your 1/4 mile runs to see what time you gain over the 35?


Here's an average shift Dan, it works out at 52ms for the full closed loop change from acceleration to acceleration. We timed the 35 at an average of 120-150ms for comparison.










It'd be better to compare a GPS run once it's set up as at the moment, I'm showing drive speed, not ground speed.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

FRRACER said:


> To lose 3/4 of a second in a few gear changes is a lot of time.


As you quite rightly pointed out Younes, it's acceleration time, not actual time.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> although a quick gear change will make a big difference on a timed speed run like a 30-130 it wouldn't so much on a 1/4 mile and even less on a track I would have thought


They're all timed runs Dan, it either makes a difference on all or none surely?
i.e. the only difference between a 30-130 and 1/4 mile is the launch.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> That's a good read that, and although a quick gear change will make a big diffremce on a timed speed run like a 30-130 it wouldn't so much on a 1/4 mile and even less on a track I would have thought


A DSG or a semi auto box will be quicker that is for sure. When Ferrari launched the semi auto box in 1989 the only car on the grid soon that was copied by Williams in 1991 who concluded that a semi auto box was worth up to a second a lap depending on the circuit. Once they got their reliability sorted that was it they dominated and Williams were the team to beat. More interestingly for those who don't know the Ferrari system was designed by an Englishman at the Ferrari design centre in Guildford. Anyway from 1993 onwards it became the gearbox to have.

No one can argue that a DSG auto does not have an advantage because they are clearly fooling themselves and on a circuit when depending on the track you could be making anything from 20-50 changes per lap and that is a lot of time but a good driver will be able to change up and down a box pretty quick. A good example was the F3 Cup few years back where at times an older Dallara F301/F300 would win ahead of a sequential F302 with drivers of similar skill. But having experienced this myself I prefer a sequential over a manual on track no need to use the clutch just push the stick forwards and back and the biggest advantage is the use of left foot braking and allowing better manipulation of the car through the brakes and playing with rotation. 

Back to the Skyline VS GTR you cannot argue with advance in technology. Same way some human races are genetically gifted in some sports that others simply cannot match unless of a freak incident. 

If you face a challenge against a GTR and your in the Skyline and want to make a good solid impression just make sure you dig deep in yourself either learn to drive better than the dude in the GTR or make sure your car it's at its optimum and not just in terms on power but focus on chassis setup and handling and braking. If you leave any of those two stock you will get destroyed!


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

matt j said:


> They're all timed runs Dan, it either makes a difference on all or none surely?
> i.e. the only difference between a 30-130 and 1/4 mile is the launch.


I would have thought because the 1/4 mile is timed distance and a 30-130 is timed speed that's were the diffrence is.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> A DSG or a semi auto box will be quicker that is for sure. When Ferrari launched the semi auto box in 1989 the only car on the grid soon that was copied by Williams in 1991 who concluded that a semi auto box was worth up to a second a lap depending on the circuit. Once they got their reliability sorted that was it they dominated and Williams were the team to beat. More interestingly for those who don't know the Ferrari system was designed by an Englishman at the Ferrari design centre in Guildford. Anyway from 1993 onwards it became the gearbox to have.
> 
> No one can argue that a DSG auto does not have an advantage because they are clearly fooling themselves and on a circuit when depending on the track you could be making anything from 20-50 changes per lap and that is a lot of time but a good driver will be able to change up and down a box pretty quick. A good example was the F3 Cup few years back where at times an older Dallara F301/F300 would win ahead of a sequential F302 with drivers of similar skill. But having experienced this myself I prefer a sequential over a manual on track no need to use the clutch just push the stick forwards and back and the biggest advantage is the use of left foot braking and allowing better manipulation of the car through the brakes and playing with rotation.
> 
> ...



Some right up there mate, I think my next area for modifying will be suspension set up but it handles so well now I'm worried about letting anyone touch incase they make it worse. Had a few bad experiences with laser allignment on previous cars what has made them drive/handle worse


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> I would have thought because the 1/4 mile is timed distance and a 30-130 is timed speed that's were the diffrence is.


No difference, both are measuring acceleration with a similar number of gear changes for a car running 600bhp


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

barry P. said:


> And at Castle Combe this year Nick Goss in his 600bhp R35 was 2secs quicker than Paul in his 730 bhp R33.


Funny you should mention this Barry as I had Nick's car in mind as an example of what a standardish 35 could do. I thought he was on R888's but may have this wrong. He was quicker than some very modified machines and I was very impressed (he is a bloody good driver too) :bowdown1:

Paul was loosing huge amounts of time with his gearbox and was 'only' running Nankangs.

I think we have two sides to the discussion /argument - straight line speed and lap times. I'm not going to argue the former.

From my experience of comparing lap times there isn't much difference:

Car is full weight, circa 500, uprated susp/brakes using road tyres (kumho KU36, Rederal RS-R, Yoko AD08R)

-Evo R35 test at the west circuit at Bedford was slightly slower.
-Steve Sutcliffe at Brands in the '13 GTR was a second slower.
-Goldie at Snetterton sprint was 0.4 seconds quicker with 700+ and R888's (nurburgring GTR was also there and to my surprise we were putting in almost identical times)
-Castle coombe Sprint - Nick was quicker (was it 2secs?) but there were a lot of 'faster' 35's that were slower. He was slower in the wet though along with all other GTR's




I'm not trying to stir the excrement - just trying to give some background as to why I disagree with the comments about the older GTR's being much slower than the new one.

Waiting for comments about my manhood 

Peace all 

Sam


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

git-r said:


> Steve Sutcliffe at Brands in the '13 GTR was a second slower.


Who's 35 was it, mate?


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

- not sure Ian, guessing it was provided by Nissan.


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## Dan Parker (May 17, 2012)

We should have people post up times they have done around certain circuits with there car specs.
I know driver is obviously very important but would be good to know.
Once again to my knowledge no R35 has come close to a skyline around Tsukuba, and that is with professional drivers getting the maximum out of the cars.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> Some right up there mate, I think my next area for modifying will be suspension set up but it handles so well now I'm worried about letting anyone touch incase they make it worse. Had a few bad experiences with laser allignment on previous cars what has made them drive/handle worse


Despite our past differences and not agreeing on certain things happy to take you for a spin in mine as soo as I get the car finalised. Then you can see for yourself what difference the suspension and braking mods had made to my car as well as the DTM controller.


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## Theskycankill (Apr 27, 2015)

Dan Parker said:


> Once again to my knowledge no R35 has come close to a skyline around Tsukuba, and that is with professional drivers getting the maximum out of the cars.


True..but now you are talking about flat our race cars.

This S15 with 800hp has the record !


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## Dan Parker (May 17, 2012)

Theskycankill said:


> True..but now you are talking about flat our race cars.
> 
> This S15 with 800hp has the record !


This is true.
Here's some factory comparisons

Nismo r34 z-tune Tsukuba 1.01.15 (500hp)
GT-R nismo 1.01.32 (600hp)


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Despite our past differences and not agreeing on certain things happy to take you for a spin in mine as soo as I get the car finalised. Then you can see for yourself what difference the suspension and braking mods had made to my car as well as the DTM controller.


That's a nice offer mate but I find it so hard from passenger seat, I normally get my dad to tell me because he is in the passenger seat of mine all the time so can tell the diffrence. I need a hicas delete kit anyway so it will have to be setup somewhere. Who set yours up Ross?


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

git-r said:


> - not sure Ian, guessing it was provided by Nissan.


Hmm. I ask because a few racing drivers have driven mine and they all drove it conservatively. If the 35 was privately owned, he may have been a bit reserved. ???

p.s. - stop spelling my name wrong.  lol


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

13 yr 35 was Nissan demonstrator - vid is on Autocar website

the 34 Z tune laptime of 1.01 around tsukuba is suspicious, as a later test showed it around 1.04. need to find the vid on youtube


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

A bone stock R32 did it in 1.07 R33 in 1.06 and R34 in 1.05 can't remember the tenths of a second. So a 1.01 for a z tune is a possibility. But also factor in the Tarmac and over the years how it may have degraded and at what points the track might have been fast.


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Found the best motoring vid. Was in a battle with a z06, Subaru impreza & murcierlago. Time attack time was 1.05.1

All seemed a bit slow, but circuit was dry.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Seems I miss all the best debates...



Dan ep3 turbo said:


> I think Richards ct17 car would be a good r32 to use has good brakes like a 35 and has 600 odd bhp so be a fair test there too


Thanks. 



FRRACER said:


> Yeah Mine too not enough power but everything else is there brakes, suspension, chassis etc.
> 
> Richards would be a good car to use.


Also thanks. 

While I would be happy to do this, I think we are missing the point a little.

The original post was this:



Tinoush said:


> Here is wat keeps my mind bussy for some days now. I drove a 600hp gtr the other day and it felt out of this world fast. No lag or "wait for it, wait for it..... now powerrrrrr". I liked it alot. It's a real drive license killer tbh.
> 
> My Skyline gtr has around 438 hp and is fun to drive but now i have seen the light, lol.
> 
> ...


I have had a stage 4 (630bhp) R35 GT-R and a stage 2 (600bhp) R35 GT-R.
As well as my 635bhp R32 GT-R.

The R32 with the same power does indeed give you the same sensation of raw acceleration.

Only the Skyline does have moments off the throttle to change gear.

And most importantly because the Skyline is an old car that's less well developed and less well insulated it feels:

More scary.
Faster.
More likely to bite you.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

To carry on, as I had to read to the one year old...


I don't think there would be much in it between a GT-R and a Skyline GT-R, both running 600bhp.

The GT-R is foolproof modding, simple stage 4 mods. Job done.

The Skyline is a lot more tricky.
Many options that lead to many different types of power delivery.
Some of which will be too peaky and wouldn't hold a candle to the GT-R.

Starting with an older engine that's a smaller displacement it's far harder to get a good usable 600+bhp. There are enough Skylines out there with mega horsepower that are build for drag or big figures.
They won't be quick on track or the road like the R35 is.

That's why my R32 stands me in about the same financially as a four year old R35 GT-R.


And last, the point at which the R35 drivers will moan...

Any half decent driver can get in a stage 4 GT-R and go pretty quickly.
Maybe not getting everything out of the car, but 90% maybe?

Anyone that isn't a good driver or really knows the car will not get as much out of a Skyline of the same speed.
Because the performance is harder to access.

Hence people always banging on about the differences between them.

I am a huge R35 fan as many people on here know.
But when I got the R32 I couldn't believe how much harder I had to work... and was still going slower.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

If the 35 gets a good start as it should then my money is on that as the gear changes are so quick.
Huge respect for both cars and don't really care if the race happens or not!


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

FRRACER said:


> If you think it's that the R35 will win by miles and destroy the Skyline you need to watch this. The R34 held its own and was only slightly slower overall.
> 
> http://youtu.be/J57csjnPADk


How much want for that R34 !!!.


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## MeisterR (Jul 19, 2008)

As I said before to many, for a driving sensation, it is hard to beat the R32.
There are other sport car I have been in such as S2000, Evo, etc.

I think one of the best thing about the R32 is that it strike a really really fine balance.
A car that feels alive to drive and will still want to kill you if you disrespect it.
But at the same time it feels planted enough compared to other RWD car that you feel confident pushing the loud paddle.

The R32 just make you feel alive to drive it, and feel alive after getting out of the car.
You probably aren't going to win any contest, after all it is now a 25 years old classic car.
I think the fact people still are comparing it to the latest equal offering from Nissan shows how good it was back in 1990's.

Imagine people comparing the Ferrari 458 Italia vs. the Ferrari 348 in a contest of speed.
That performance gap will be so large it would be near impossible to fill no matter how much mods you throw at it.

Jerrick


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## K66 SKY (Jan 25, 2005)

*Good Cars are always Good Cars and very hard to beat!*



MeisterR said:


> *Imagine people comparing the Ferrari 458 Italia vs. the Ferrari 348 in a contest of speed.
> That performance gap will be so large it would be near impossible to fill no matter how much mods you throw at it.*


You know, That's a really good way of putting it Jerrick!

Long story but....Two of the cars that were very high on my _"Bucket List"_ to Own one day were the early 1990's Lotus Carlton or the mid 1990's R33 Skyline GT-R. Both of these macho looking machines are known to rust quite badly but both of these have lusty straight six twin turbocharged engines that really floats my boat so to speak!

Where the two door Skyline Coupé looses out on cylinder capacity _(The RWD only four door Saloon Lotus' 3615cc 24v C36GET lump being a whole 1000cc's+ larger than the RB26DETT's)_ , All 2568cc powered GT-R's more than make up this capacity short fall with Nissan's sophisticated ATTESSA 4WD traction. Both were similarly priced on the second hand car market too. Add also into the fact that all Lotus Carlton's/Lotus Omega's produce well over their claimed 377bhp _(anything from 410bhp to 435bhp is common place Rolling Road results)_ and you'll probably never ever come across a 100% standard Skyline GT-R either....Then the choices between the two became blurred thus making it even harder for me to choose one than you'd think.

Then it was decision time. Only three things in the end finally swayed me towards my Skyline. The first was that the Nissan has a steering rack not a box and thus has much better response/feel to it, secondly you can still buy brand new OE parts for it _(GM gave up on the Lotus' over ten years ago now)_ and the thirdly/finally was the fact that my car had once gone up Santa Pod posting a 1/4 mile time of 11.922sec @ 124.83mph!

This might not mean much to any of you Guys but to me it meant something truly important indeed. During 1992 professional Driver Rudy Thomann was trying hard to make Lotus Omega 0038C get into the Autocar & Motor record books. Again at Santa Pod, This Lotus with over 30k passed under its wheels did a punishing 18 passes of the strip trying to get the best 0-100mph-0 times possible, It finished second place overall after this test behind a Ferrari F40 at number one but in front of a Ford RS200 placed in third. 

So, After 18 goes at this task the Parisian Senior Development Engineer/Racing Driver _(Thomann)_ got the big old Lotus Omega bus to 100mph at exactly 11.92 seconds on their Correvit timing gear that day. You see, I just couldn't get it through my head that my Skyline GT-R driven by a total novice managed to do 24mph more than this expert did just 0.002 of a second behind that Lotus in what was to become my very Own BCNR33!!!:chuckle: 

_Similar four seat performance Cars with a similar engine philosophy manufactured just a few years apart but with utterly different results._ 

Unsurprisingly I suppose _(looking back now)_, I soon upset so called friends when my _"Jap-Crap"_ Datsun proved itself to be faster than 0207G _(417bhp)_ & 0356G _(435bhp)_ which are both well known documented Lotus Carlton's in the Autobahnstormers Community. 

Having driven around eight of these vehicles myself in the past two decades and knowing just how difficult these Lotus' were to get cleanly off the line without its ar$e wagging about filling up both lanes of any given road, I was gobsmacked at how civilised and easily controllable a 500bhp Skyline GT-R was in comparison at full chat! It certainly wasn't as aggressive and uncontrollable as I was expecting it to be. As a result of this relative tameness in the extreme my GT-R was soon lovingly nicknamed by my true friends as the fast Micra because it can pootle about Town, do the weekly shop without any hints of drama but it can also in the blink of an eye chase after a Porsche when provoked, Upset the Focus RS crowd or leave a Bavarian M-power'd BMW in its wake...Which I really, REALLY like this dangerous schizophrenic dual personality to it!

And maybe deep down and with reflection this is why I was so harsh on the standard R35 Nissan GT-R I got to experience last month?? If the earlier Skyline GT-R can be such a devastating and all conquering tool when it was directly compared to a Supercar rival from the same era, Then I was expecting the much newer R35 to do roughly the same annihilation job to my Skyline as my R33 did aborting these two different Lotus Carlton's I mentioned above. 

But sadly, that kick in excitement and adrenaline didn't happen. Perhaps I was expecting too much from a Nissan GT-R after all the raw iconic R32/R33/R34 's are still a pretty hard benchmark performance car to beat even with today's advancements in vehicle technologies!:bowdown1:

Oh Well....

JM2PW!:nervous:


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

K66 SKY said:


> You know, That's a really good way of putting it Jerrick!
> 
> Long story but....Two of the cars that were very high on my _"Bucket List"_ to Own one day were the early 1990's Lotus Carlton or the mid 1990's R33 Skyline GT-R. Both of these macho looking machines are known to rust quite badly but both of these have lusty straight six twin turbocharged engines that really floats my boat so to speak!
> 
> ...


well said


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

Theskycankill said:


> True..but now you are talking about flat our race cars.
> 
> This S15 with 800hp has the record !


Goog god, how is that even possible with a Silvia 
Mines R33 did it in 58 something


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Pure grip driving, lighter chassis and 800bhp. Remember drifting might look great but if you have more sideways momentum than forward momentum you will lose time.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Hilarious

https://www.facebook.com/7Tune/videos/878528842184553/


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Hilarious
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/7Tune/videos/878528842184553/


No, dangerous.


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

With all out racing cars it's a whole other story, but I think the op is referring to a mildly modded Road car where the r35 is king imo


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

FRRACER said:


> Hilarious
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/7Tune/videos/878528842184553/


That looks alot of fun  

It must weigh under a ton and no doubt plenty of power not really comparable I'm Anyway to a road trim gtr lol


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

FRRACER said:


> Hilarious
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/7Tune/videos/878528842184553/


ThAt doesn't sound like a rb26. Let alone anything turbo charged. I'm sure there are plenty of clips of skylines getting owned by things like metros. Lol :chuckle:


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

https://m.youtube.com/?reload=2&rdm=1nx42c61x#/watch?v=A7FWdumjDus
Junk piece of crap


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## keithmac (Mar 1, 2014)

For a road car I don't think you can compare the manual H pattern gearbox to the new DCT's.

I was amazed when I drove an r35 on track but it was the gear shifting that really stood out.

Sure you can get a manual car to hit similar in gear acceleration but to seamlessly flick up the gearbox flat out with no real loss between gear changes is where it will always be better than a manual.

Plus the 3.8 gives really good low down grunt, so best of all worlds really..


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

keithmac said:


> For a road car I don't think you can compare the manual H pattern gearbox to the new DCT's.
> I was amazed when I drove an r35 on track but it was the gear shifting that really stood out.
> Sure you can get a manual car to hit similar in gear acceleration but to seamlessly flick up the gearbox flat out with no real loss between gear changes is where it will always be better than a manual.
> Plus the 3.8 gives really good low down grunt, so best of all worlds really..


Hey, You're growing on me keithmac!

A lot on here think, they can change gear manually, faster than a DST. now unless you are superman, I'd say that's quite a task, and IF you did manage it on the off chance, i'd say doing it on the regular would be a rather hard task.


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## keithmac (Mar 1, 2014)

Yeh it was an eye opener really, shame I couldn't have driven it home too!.

I'm mechanically inclined which made it all the more impressive.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Chronos said:


> Hey, You're growing on me keithmac!
> 
> A lot on here think, they can change gear manually, faster than a DST. now unless you are superman, I'd say that's quite a task, and IF you did manage it on the off chance, i'd say doing it on the regular would be a rather hard task.


That wasn't the impression I was getting.

It seemed like the Skyline needed it's power to weight advantage (same power, third of a tonne less in the 600bhp comparison) exactly because the DCT is so swift it makes the R35 faster than it should be for cars with it's power to weight ratio.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

gtr mart said:


> ThAt doesn't sound like a rb26. Let alone anything turbo charged. I'm sure there are plenty of clips of skylines getting owned by things like metros. Lol :chuckle:


Two things with this video

Race car vs Road car
Expensive to repair late model sports car vs 1983 civic body shell 

I too would drive the civic like I stole it compared to babying the GTR in the corners


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

CT17 said:


> That wasn't the impression I was getting.
> 
> It seemed like the Skyline needed it's power to weight advantage (same power, third of a tonne less in the 600bhp comparison) exactly because the DCT is so swift it makes the R35 faster than it should be for cars with it's power to weight ratio.


as a man who's owned BOTH, which changes gear faster? a manual R32 OR the auto R35?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Chronos said:


> Hey, You're growing on me keithmac!
> 
> A lot on here think, they can change gear manually, faster than a DST. now unless you are superman, I'd say that's quite a task, and IF you did manage it on the off chance, i'd say doing it on the regular would be a rather hard task.


If you think anyone is saying that someone can change gears faster than a <100ms automated gearbox your even funnier than I thought. If you go back a few pages and read my posts no where did I ever claim that!

The point I am making is under certain circumstances and certain tracks a well setup Skyline with same power were talking around 600 would be more than a match as we have seen in the past here with Sam and also in Japan with the Mines Skyline.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> If you think anyone is saying that someone can change gears faster than a <100ms automated gearbox your even funnier than I thought. If you go back a few pages and read my posts no where did I ever claim that!
> 
> The point I am making is under certain circumstances and certain tracks a well setup Skyline with same power were talking around 600 would be more than a match as we have seen in the past here with Sam and also in Japan with the Mines Skyline.


Er, OK boss.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Good man! :smokin:


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Probably not the best example, but someone posted a thread about the Albins seq gearbox for the Skyline, well that car won the Amateur Class at World Time Attack was an R34 with about 800hp and it was driven by a non pro driver, it did a faster time than the 1000hp R35 that HKS bought over with a pro driver.....the R35 has bigger slicks and the R34 has semi slicks.

......Just waiting to win Lotto so that I can fit an R35 gearbox in the R32, would be a big job with plenty of fabrication and wiring to fit the transaxle in there, but with Motec now having a plug-in ECU for the R35 it would be possible.


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## nismoman (Jul 13, 2004)

its aright comparing a h pattern box with the 35 box i should say yes no compression , but against a flat shift sequential box that you can change gear when you require not when the ECU says is a whole different ball game ,now when you try a box like that you will be amazed


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## Lukes R35 GT-R (Mar 1, 2015)

Thing is people are comparing not your average 600hp skyline and bringing race cars with 15-20k gearboxes into it now lol


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## keithmac (Mar 1, 2014)

20k gearbox and you're half way there to an R-35.. Now factor in all the engine and suspension mods!.

I don't even own a Nissan full stop, but apreciate what they did when they designed it from the ground up using all the latest tech.

Personally I can't understand all the negative comments about the 35, you should be proud that Nissan produced it in the 1st place.

Look at Mitsubishi and how they've basically washed their hands with perfomance GT cars, think yourselves lucky!.


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## nismoman (Jul 13, 2004)

that's true about comparing gearboxes ,but people were making comparisons to how good the 35 gearbox is compared to a 20 odd year old skyline box which they are very good ,but if you want to go faster in a skyline in my opinion a sequential box is a absolute must but if you've never had one you will not appreciate the difference they will make ,it not all about BHP , but then there is the other factor using the new 35 gearbox requires no skill in comparison to a sequential and makes very average drivers think there a lot better than the actually are , but at the end of the day most people want a very very driver friendly box that requires no skill or thought to use , which for a daily driver is probably what i want ,but that's defiantly not what i want in my other cars


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

funny video opcorn:


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

Tinoush said:


> funny video opcorn:


What was a stage 3 gtr in 2008? the video was uploaded 2008, seems very odd the R34 trounced it off the line had the r35 been launched it should of took off


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

scoooby slayer said:


> 2008, seems very odd the R34 trounced it off the line had the r35 been launched it should of took off


Probably worried about voiding the warranty launching it in 2008! :chuckle:


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## rob wild (Jul 30, 2007)

Great thread 

I've had both well R34 then R35 and now R32. The difference for me is that the R35 allowed me to access more of its performance and on track even more so! Where as the R32 is much more challenging to drive at anywhere near the same pace. As far as which is faster I'm going to see shortly as I'm doing Cadwell in a couple of weeks and it'll be interesting to see the difference in times!

If I was to guess though I would say that me in my old R35 would be quicker than my current R32 mainly because of the gearbox, I.e. Last time my friend was following me in his 700hp time attack full track spec Supra and he said he could believe how much of an advantage the gearbox was not only when up shifting quickly but also on the down shift when negotiating tight s bends.

Plus the torque is delivery in combination with all the stability control system makes it a awesome package.

However their is a good reason I'm in a R32  it will be interesting to see how my new R32 setup up works next year


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## K66 SKY (Jan 25, 2005)

*Great new tech, Couldn't finish five laps!*



matt j said:


> *Probably worried about voiding the warranty launching it in 2008! :chuckle:*


And the R35 still broke down in that Vid....


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Can anyone else make this??

- http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/381945-snetterton-300-9th-nov-80-full-day.html

Fappin bargain and will be a great GTR day regardless of type!

C'mon lads!!


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## Lukes R35 GT-R (Mar 1, 2015)

14 pages later all this thread needed was one 2 letter word lol


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

git-r said:


> Can anyone else make this??
> 
> - http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/381945-snetterton-300-9th-nov-80-full-day.html
> 
> ...


Aren't you banned from MSV events though?:chuckle:


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Aren't you banned from MSV events though?:chuckle:


A valid point, well made... 

:chuckle:

Hoping I've improved enough for them to let me back..

Isn't Richard organising it though?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

git-r said:


> Isn't Richard organising it though?


Yes, he is, but I just noticed MSV came up in the blurb. Looks like it could be good but the 160 odd mile drive puts me off a bit.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

It'd be worth it!

Great track and they don't frown on people enjoying themselves 

I've only been once on the 300 track in the Skyline, got black flagged for having one drift, expected the worst but was delighted by the marshal's comments.. "not a problem at all" ... :bowdown1: Run by the same company as Brands but not run in the same way thank god!


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Another suggestion for a meet - North Weald Carlimits day. Cheap, fun and timed so competitive. 

Was there a couple of weeks - here's what it's like:
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/382849-north-weald-pics-vids.html

Think the 35's would do brilliantly here with the suspension set in the softest setting - the stiff skylines end up bouncing everywhere, losing heaps of time. 

Two options already:

Snetterton (if I'm allowed) and North Weald.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

nice car skills there chaps. I have been thinking about how we could run a decent yet still safe day of our own. I never got a price from Silverstone (my fault for not having time) but know it will be thousands and would have issues with timing.

If people are up for the auto test type of run (one person at a time against a stop watch) then we could make an amazing course of our own and as I said, include a wet bit as I think I can get hold of a bowser.

Sam, you up for this? Shall I propose some dates?


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Absolutely and I'm sure there will be lots of others! 

Send me over your email and let's see if we can get something arranged.. Failing that the north Weald days could be ideal as it wouldn't need any organisation.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Seems there're so many 35 v's thread going on I just wanted to bumpe this one...

Come on lads, let's sort this on track


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I want to come along and have a play with the R35s too


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

There are a few that'll be much quicker than me... In all types of gtr. Will be a huge learning experience for the uneducated though


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## V-SpecII (Jan 14, 2008)

FRRACER said:


> I want to come along and have a play with the R35s too


Play..? Sure you don't mean terrorize. :chuckle:


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

You can play and terrorise at the same time!


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Still up for this.
630bhp R32. Should be easy to find a stage 4 R35 or two for a comparison, it's a popular tune.


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## TommyGTRLSX (Aug 29, 2012)

I'll be up for this aswell !


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

Ok guys here's your ideal opportunity. Get an entry in for the GTROC Litchfield Sprint on Sept 12th . It's at the Lotus test track at Hethel, using proper Heuer timing gear so no cheating the clock. Full details are in the On Track section of the forum with some videos showing the circuit layout.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I think the idea was a bit of fun on track, airfield day etc...

A sprint does have timing, but involves going out once each and paying £139 to do maybe 10 laps as part of an event with 50-60 cars on it.

Personally (and maybe this is just my opinion) I'd rather have a track day where you let an R35 loose and I have try and keep up with it.
Maybe even going for an overtake. :chuckle:




The 12th is also the Castle Combe Forge day.
So I will be busy.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Nice one Barry - can't make this unfortunately, would be there otherwise. Fantastic days and really cut through any BS


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Barry, I thought sept 12 was snetterton. When is Snetterton this year? 

Thanks


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

git-r said:


> Barry, I thought sept 12 was snetterton. When is Snetterton this year?
> 
> Thanks


Darin had to swap the venues, Snett wasn't available which is why they've gone for Hethel.( No Snetterton this year). They have run there before and found it very good, it is very quick with some long straights which will suit the GTRs and Skylines.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

CT17 said:


> I think the idea was a bit of fun on track, airfield day etc...
> 
> A sprint does have timing, but involves going out once each and paying £139 to do maybe 10 laps as part of an event with 50-60 cars on it.
> 
> ...




I like the sound of that idea richard


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Ok lads, 

Please could you all take the time to have a look at this thread:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/389169-skyline-v-r35-gt-r-showdown-saturday-17th-october.html

We'll need a lot of people to make this happen so please come along


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

I lived with both for 7 years - they are like identical twins but with different personalities


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