# most iconic GT-R ever



## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

if your choice is not in the poll, write it up


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## SmigzyGTR (Mar 20, 2006)

Calsonic for me! 

One day....one day.


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## frostmotorsport (Aug 10, 2007)

the R32 Shell/Nissan Gp. A touring cars from early 90's (won in 92 and one other year IIRC) - Obliterated everything in Aussie touring cars, got boo'ed by the dum ar$e aussie fans (I'm a kiwi!!) and banned by what would become AVESCO - who now ensure that all touring cars are Aussie built pushrod V8's - yawn.....

I think they ran them in Winfield livery too, but might be getting old and confused....

this site has some cool pics incl. GTR (not my site so hope that's ok...)

www.910bluebird.com 

these things kicked heiny in the wet or dry (no HICAS) and looked & sounded the dogs while doing it.

Caused Gentleman Jim (Richards) to call the crown a "bunch of [email protected]"!!

Now that's an Icon! in these parts anyhoo....:squintdan


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## joker69 (Mar 13, 2006)

definitely the mine's n1 (r34 gtr). the hole package (engine, transmission, body, etc) looks for me perfect.

but the hakosuka is one of the best looking


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## Pharoahe (Mar 11, 2006)

I voted for the Mine's R34, because I think that was the car that got the Skyline to the masses through video's like BMI and Hot Version. An dont to forget Gran Turismo.


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## digitalboy40 (Nov 14, 2006)

+1 for the calsonic R32. it was one of the first GTR's i remember seeing in some form (model/video game/mag/etc). i thought about the mine's R34 but felt thats its more of a newer age icon for the GTR, though its still one of my favorites.


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## bkvj (Feb 13, 2006)

i voted for the mines, but i just couldnt make a choice between the Grp A and the mines...VERY though toby!


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

Deffo the Mines package.


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

The Gibson Motorsport/Nissan liveried cars


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

you're all totally wrong..

the one off "The Fast And the Spurious" is the most Iconic skyline ever..






:chairshot


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Calsonic R32. The R32 was the first version to bring the RB26DETT - ATTESSA package together and that's what made the car. In 1989 the R32 was further ahead of the competition than any later model and the Calsonic delivered that fact through the formality of motorsport success.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Grex said:


> you're all totally wrong..
> 
> the one off "The Fast And the Spurious" is the most Iconic skyline ever..
> 
> ...


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## SmigzyGTR (Mar 20, 2006)

PMSL


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

Jun Super Lemon for me, then the Top Secret Drag R11.


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

calsonic all the way


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## Stan (Jun 14, 2006)

For those of us without the indepth knowledge of many members on here, how about some pics/specs so that we can be enlightened ?

Please.


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## r33gtsman (Jun 29, 2001)

Top Secret Drag R11 for me, if I could have any skyline I wanted then this would be it :thumbsup:


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

first proper image that i remember is the Top Secret Drag R going through the tunnel in Max Power,when i saw that i was just amazed on it,hooked onto them ever since!


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## tigger (Jan 3, 2002)

ATTKD time attack R32 GTR...


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## GTR WANNABE (Feb 21, 2002)

hodgie said:


> Jun Super Lemon for me, then the Top Secret Drag R11.


Have to agree


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## shane 01782 (Feb 22, 2006)

what about the falken skyline?


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## daytona (Jun 28, 2005)

Out of the choices, Calsonic by a mile:bowdown1: The first, Most dominant and the start of the Skyline Legend.


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## MADsteve (Nov 25, 2004)

For me, personally it's an impossible question to answer. 

In essence the most iconic Skyline of all should be the 1st R32 GTR to roll off the production line, as that was, indeed the route to all our (RB26, ATTESSA and HICAS) madness! lol. 

Which leads me to wondering where that very car is????? but that's a whole different thread altogether!


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## banzai g (Jan 5, 2007)

From the choices the calsonic car forsure !!!! 

But one car that will forever stick in my mind, would have to be the 

Top Secret Drag R11 :bowdown1:


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Calsonic for me.

The rest are just toys....


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

A very tough list/question. perhaps one should ask iconic to what country?
If in this country only with regards to what our UK guys have achieved, then the Lemon, Drag R11, RK and Sumo cars spring to mind. All equally impressive.
If we are talking performance icons, then i guess the HKS 32 & 33 should be included.
If we were talking competition/track cars, then mine would be the Calsonic R32,
but i think overall for historic and thoroughbred reasons, i'll go with the Works Tomica RS Turbo.


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## Wanabee Kiwi (Mar 31, 2007)

Although its not neccersarily iconic I think that the Heat Treatments R32 GT-R deserves a mention for being the quickest GT-R in the world, and quickest 4WD also.


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Heat Treatments most definitely not. Thats a recent thing, and not really an icon. Its all relative to where in the world you are - for me, these ones have been iconic in their own ways for GTRs.... between them have probably nearly 20 years of inspiring me 

This guy needs no introduction - probably inspired many to go nuts making big power with their cars:









And this is more the beast the Australisians should have a special place for. Pissed off many V8 lovers, and helped make the Godzilla nickname stick for the English speaking world:


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

R32 GT-R


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

The first GTR is probably the greatest Icon over here, thought we are all a bit too young to have experienced the Hakosuka wave life in japan.

Thought the Calsonic Blue Shark is the car you find every where on posters and other goodies.


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

After watching the Racing GTR vid and being a bit of a fan :chuckle: 











The TAISAN R32 rocks, driven by the drif king himself Mr. K. Tsuchiya:bowdown1: 


Smokey :smokin:


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## Gazmo1 (Jul 30, 2001)

This one is where the GT-R thing started for me in 1994 while working at Middlehursts.

A few pictures of it in some of it's different colour schemes thorugh the years.


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## rasonline (Mar 24, 2005)

I voted on Calsonic, though i thikn PENNZOIL nismo skyline colour scheme was the best on the race cars.

UNISIA JECS Skyline also springs to mind with its unique paint and colour scheme.

But going back to the start you'd have to say the Aussie Skylines should be included in the list too..


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

Calsonic!


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Nice to see the lemon in the list. Thank you.

My vote went to the Lemon of course wrong not too.

But my best Skyline ever in the world is Garage Saurus R32 the Daddy of the Daddy's

Mick


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## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

Does anyone have any decent pics of the HKS 32?

Cheers

Rob


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Not that clear, but a fairly good one. Thanks to Rick at Endless


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Which one?

HKS Zero-R
Nissan Skyline GT-R HKS Zero R - Turbo Magazine









































































































HKS Grp-A

















Bonus Mines R34 GTR shot:


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## whoflungdung (May 7, 2005)

here it is, in its prime all those years ago
still looks the danglers even now :bowdown1: :bowdown1: :bowdown1: 





































and a later version I think, I'm sure someone will know which one it is???


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

The later version is the 2003 Calsonic R34 JGTC car
I also think the Ginza shots of the Calsonic 32 are courtesy of DCD, just for copyright purposes.


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## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

Grp A HKS 32 shots wanted please..

Rob


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## jamesbilluk (Aug 10, 2006)

Hi Rob, here are some pictures i found of the beast





































Pictures from this site 

Let's Talk Big Power

James.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)




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## RS_Rawli (Aug 19, 2007)

this is making me want to do my autostrada modena splits white


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

I think some people are getting pictures of HKS drag cars mixed up with pictures of HKS Group A touring cars......

There were _several_ different Calsonic / IMPUL / Hoshino Racing Group A R32 cars built too. Not just one.


My votes for 'iconic' status would have to go with either 'Blue 15' - the works KPGC10 that took the GT-R's 50th race win - even if it has become somewhat cliched, or NISMO's silver and blue 'no.23' prototype Group A BNR32 - as seen in the Japanese press in September / October 1989. I was in Japan at the time and well remember the bubbling excitement amongst Nissan fans there, as the rumours of the road car's specs were being proved as true and the legend of the 'GT-R' name was being revived.

What has happened over the last year with the R35 has reminded me very much of late 1989, except this time the _whole world_ seemed to be aware and interested.....


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## Mr. Keets (Jan 7, 2006)

for me its the Gibson R32 GT-R's...the best Group A R32 GT-R ever built...bar none


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Mr. Keets said:


> for me its the Gibson R32 GT-R's...the best Group A R32 GT-R ever built...bar none


....According to Fred Gibson, at least.


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## Mr. Keets (Jan 7, 2006)

Not just Fred but i'm reliably infromed Nissan also thought so too:smokin:


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Mr. Keets said:


> Not just Fred but i'm reliably infromed Nissan also thought so too:smokin:


The 'opinion of Nissan' is a rather nebulous concept though, isn't it?

Would you care to explain the circumstances around this, bearing in mind that Mr Gibson was usually promoting _Mr Gibson_?

The Gibson cars were excellent of course, but they are often championed as "the best" by people who seem to know next to nothing about the Japanese works cars, or indeed the big picture. Legends surrounding the R30/R31 often seem to get confused with that of the R32, for example.

I'd say it would be more accurate to describe the Gibson R32s as cars built to run in different championships - and under different circumstances - to the Japanese works cars. I don't see how a subjective word like 'better' can be used objectively in that context.

I'm only aware of _one_ race where a Gibson-prepped, Gibson staff-run Group A R32 GT-R ran head-to-head against works NISMO cars and semi-works cars. I was at the race. The Gibson-prepped car qualified _seven seconds_ slower than the pole-sitting Calsonic car, and finished the race in tenth place overall - seventh in class, and also beaten by two BMW M3s which were running in the next division down.

On that day at least, 'better' must have meant something else entirely.


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

I voted for the Calsonic R32 - saw it in an old Kyosho R/C catalogue when I was 10 and dragged my dad down to Hamleys to get the 1/10 electric kit 

Wish I still had it, it's probably worth a fair bit now!


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## Mr. Keets (Jan 7, 2006)

Well you would expect an Aussie to champion the product. 

Firstly I recognise that the Group A spec was interperated differantly by different teams and local bodies across the world. This was seen on a number of occasions during scruitneering for the Bathurst races.

I did not use the word "Best" in that context. I'm refering to the quailty of the vehicle. Build quality is subjective and transends regional rule interpretation so I will stand by my statement. 

As for the statement you seem to take exception to. I do not attribute this to FG, I can only go off what I've been told by a very knowledgable person who has had an active hands on and management role in sedan (Group A, Super Cars, Production Cars etc) racing in Australia, including Bathurst during that period and who has seen a number of Japanese cars. He has said that they were not built to the same standard and Nissan considered them (Gibson's) the best in the world. Unfortunately or fortunately, I have no doubt as to the character of the man to whom I attribute this information so I did not deem it necessary to ask exactly who in Nissan he was quoting. 

I will concede that with differences in spec, development and the vageries of racing on the day, that no car, not even the mighty Gibson cars were unbeatable.


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Mr Keets,
I take some of your points, but do you see mine? I don't like seeing people drop these quotes of the Gibson cars being "the best" when it implies that that true Japanese works cars were in some way 'inferior' - or indeed that the Japanese works technicians and mechanics ( and all their subcontractors and suppliers ) were in some way _incapable_ of achieving the same level.

Time and time again down the years I have read the same old jingoistic nonsense, damning the Japanese cars whilst at the same time big-upping the Gibson team. Ironically, some of the people who come out with this stuff will also tell you in the same breath that Gibson and his crew _"did all the homologation and development"_ of the Group A BNR32s on behalf of NISMO, as though the Japanese staff had nothing to do with it ( which is of course complete garbage ). I can't understand how they can _claim_ to have developed all the Gr.A parts and _still_ say that the Japanese cars were inferior? They can't have their cake _and_ eat it. The truth is of course that it's mainly propaganda from one of the protagonists, biting the hand that fed. 

Bottom line is that the NISMO cars totally dominated their series. NISMO had such a tight rein on their own cars, and the cars of their major competitors, that they could virtually _choose_ which car would win each race. The cars were just as fast as they _needed_ to be in the circumstances, and - unlike the Gibson cars which were occasionally seen to break due to the level they were forced to run at in their series - they didn't often suffer from mechanical woes. I call that adequate, and I don't see how anyone can compare the two 'sides' and decide that one is "better" than the other.

I'm giving that single Gibson car I saw racing in Japan the benefit of the doubt ( given the circumstances and the drivers ). But think of this: If one of the top-line NISMO cars had pitched up at Bathurst, and had effectively had its arse handed to it on a plate by the Gibson cars, I think people would like to use it as evidence of something, don't you? I don't think anybody in Japan did that with the Gibson car's showing at the '92 Inter Tec race at FISCO, which is all to their credit. 

All in all, I think the positive attitude towards the Gibson cars by all concerned shows the put-downs and sledging of the Japanese works cars by the Gibson fans in a bad light.


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## Mr. Keets (Jan 7, 2006)

It would be foolish for anyone to believe that the Gibson team were the main driving force behind the development of the Group A GT-R; of course they played their part but if one believes that racing improves the breed, then just by shear numbers the Japanese did more to develop the car than anyone else and I dont believe it was by just shear numbers.

I think it would have been sad to see a NISMO car have its arse handed to it down under and I have to agree that the less evolved fans would have seen this a as a blanket statement in regard to the superiority or lack of same from NISMO. The "scene" would not be the same if that had happened.

Bathurst is a special race and the Gibson Rs were a special car, conjuring all manner of emotions and one only has to look at the reception Richards and Skaife recieved on the podium to recognise how the "average" bloke felt. To this day Commodore and Falcon drivers target GT-Rs ina vain attempt to right a percieved wrong...and thats a lot of fun.

Cheers


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

I voted r32 just because of it's near flawless record when it blitzed most cars in it's class at the time


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## Gazmo1 (Jul 30, 2001)

tweenierob said:


> Does anyone have any decent pics of the HKS 32?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rob


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## anthonymcgrath (Feb 22, 2005)

I'm not exactly a skyline history nut and dont know too many facts but I'm surprised no-one has put up a pic of this era of skyline (sorry if you've mentioned it)
...I saw this about a year after getting my own skyline and I just think they look sooooo cool:








also I couldn't find a proper pic of the car but here's some chaps rendering of it in race spec... I just think it smacks of awesome:


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Jezzzzz, some great pics of the old school r32's. I towed our Taisan R32 replica from Bournmouth to London yesterday had passengers hanging out of passing cars with camera phones taking pic's, waving and  giving the thumbs up. It most definatley attracts a lot of attention. I think that my silver R32 might have to get a respray :chuckle: 



Smokey :smokin:


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## Dannyh (Jul 17, 2007)

I'll vote for all of them as i don't know a lot about them, but they all seem to have something special about them and they are all Skylines :bowdown1: :bowdown1:


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

3 cars for me... 

The Lemon, right back in the day, many years before it ever came to Scotland and then England, loved it.
(Was it ever blue? JUN used to have a metallic blue one that was almost identical IIRC).

The Veilside R32GTR as that just seemed so blisteringly stupidly fast at the time.

And the Winfield R32GTRs, even tho I preffered the Dick Johnson RS500s, lol


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

SteveN said:


> 3 cars for me...
> 
> The Lemon, right back in the day, many years before it ever came to Scotland and then England, loved it.
> (Was it ever blue? JUN used to have a metallic blue one that was almost identical IIRC).



So what is wrong with it now then Steve???:chuckle: :chuckle: 

And it was never blue. But i do know the car you are talking about.

Respect.

Mick


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## GTR R34 (Oct 2, 2002)

I voted for the mines gtr
Because that still the king of the street legal circuit gtr's
And i think the mcr r34 gtr schould be a close second
Not that that i don't the like the other gtr's.
But at the end of the day the gtr's is made for corners.


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## Darbo (Nov 2, 2003)

I voted R32 calsonic but tbh i think there all kickass cars
the early skylines are like the BDA Escort MK1's of the day
similar to the 240Z
all awsum in there own right


~S~

Darbo


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## NZRB30 (Jul 21, 2007)

*HEAT TREATMENT GTR*

Im sure everyone is aware of the Heat Treatment drag GTR which is up there in terms of recognition. Although I do live in NZ which could be bias. Very cool none the less. Other wise the Calsonic car is nice. It felt fast when I last drive it (GT2 Playstation) hahaha


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## RamRod (Apr 28, 2004)

R32 Calsonic. Has had the largest impact of any of the skylines in motoring history. Total devastation!!!


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## simmie (Aug 5, 2007)

calsonic - say no more


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## Spooled1.8 (Apr 26, 2007)

Calsonic gets my vote as well. Why? Simply, its a thoroughbred!


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I grew up watching Bathurst every year....And when the GTR turned up, They all started crying foul before it even took to the track!!

....And then it desimated them.

Being on this side of the earth, It has to be Gibson Motorsport GTR's with Skaife and "Gentleman" Jim Richards.

In 1990 I new one day I would own one of these cars that destroyed the competition.


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## Addicted2Boost (Nov 15, 2007)

Z-tune for sure! Rare, powerful, and awesome to look at! You wont have to change anything at all! ... maybe that gay steering wheel tho... 

But yes it was the Group A R32 Skyline that really set the mark and impacted even those who had no interest in the brand...


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## Kez (Sep 14, 2004)

ive always liked the calsonic, the rest are awesome too


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## NBM33 (Jan 15, 2006)

Nismo R34 Z-Tune ...It's a work of art. Although i would love to see what Nismo do with the New GTR


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## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

I thought the hako suka would have got more votes really. Its the coolest car in the bloody world!

I'll own one one day (probably only be a PGC10 though)


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

dean j said:


> (probably only be a PGC10 though)


What's _"only"_ about a PGC10? It's a GT-R.

The letter 'P' in the PGC10 and KPGC10 prefixes ( and in the KPGC110, PS30 and PS30-SB prefixes too, come to that ) indicates the S20 DOHC 24v 2 litre 6-cylinder engine.

I think you must mean "only" the 12v SOHC L20-engined GC10 or KGC10.........?


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## revolver1 (Mar 12, 2008)

Calsonic all the way:bowdown1:


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## gtst lad (Mar 29, 2003)

gtr700 for me


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## beaumackenzie (Jan 21, 2008)

*Winfield/shell GTR*

opcorn:


frostmotorsport said:


> the R32 Shell/Nissan Gp. A touring cars from early 90's (won in 92 and one other year IIRC) - Obliterated everything in Aussie touring cars, got boo'ed by the dum ar$e aussie fans (I'm a kiwi!!) and banned by what would become AVESCO - who now ensure that all touring cars are Aussie built pushrod V8's - yawn.....
> 
> I think they ran them in Winfield livery too, but might be getting old and confused....
> 
> ...


hear hear !!!! picture of that car:banned: cause nothing could compete with it... Photo Album


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

That would be "You're a pack of assh0les" from Richo


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## beaumackenzie (Jan 21, 2008)

what you have to remmember is that up untill 1994 most teams struggled to get backing from there manufacturers for the simple reason that government regulations that were in place in australia at the time the group a rules were introduced restricted what you could do to a GROUP A vehical, thats why untill the vt series holden commodore all v8 holdens were 5 litres.

that is why the Winfield GTR's were 7 seconds slower than there japanese counterparts, because when it came to manufacturer sponsor ship in australia nissan wanted near nothing to do with it, yet the japanese based and built cars were backed by nissan for there every whim and whimper.

thats why it was TWR and HDT not HRT as we know it today. 

same goes for ford allan moffat had to build his car in a mates workshop. from a bare stock standard shell and had to get his engines from state's side.

cosworth, not ford back the rs500's 

the gtho falcon is a classic example.

the phase 1,2, and 3 GT HO was originally meant to be falcon gt with H O standing for High Output. 

the australian federal government was screaming out because these cars were getting to powerful for there own good

so in 1972 the phase four gtho was canned by holde half way through production bowing to government pressure and only three were made, High Output was to be changed to Handling Options in the Brochure to calm the status quoe.

little is this known but in 1988 peter brock wanted to run a RB30et powered vl commodore so they could move into the lower weight class. 

he also stated in a news artical in 1988 that holden putting the nissan powerplant in the vl series commodre was the best thing they ever did. 

so i guess the point is all these rules and regulations to what could be done and couldnt be done to the Australian Group A touring cars stems back to the late 60's early 70's when our fathers were rockin around in 2 tonne tank's
that the dealer advertised could carry a 44 gallon drum in the boot with radial tuned suspension as the norm......


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## Cid_Casterwick (Apr 16, 2007)

I chose the Hakosuka, mainly because im a classic Japanese car whore lol


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## dazmo (Aug 19, 2008)

beaumackenzie said:


> what you have to remmember is that up untill 1994 most teams struggled to get backing from there manufacturers for the simple reason that government regulations that were in place in australia at the time the group a rules were introduced restricted what you could do to a GROUP A vehical, thats why untill the vt series holden commodore all v8 holdens were 5 litres.
> 
> that is why the Winfield GTR's were 7 seconds slower than there japanese counterparts, because when it came to manufacturer sponsor ship in australia nissan wanted near nothing to do with it, yet the japanese based and built cars were backed by nissan for there every whim and whimper.
> 
> Sorry mate but I think you are mistaken on the fact that the Winfield/Gibson motorsport cars where 7 sec slower than japanese cars. They never actually competed on the same track as NISMO personally asked Gibson motorsport not to bring their cars to japan to compete for fear of them being quicker than their japanese counterparts. The Winfield/Gibson motorsport cars where and are commonally acknowlaged as being the most heighly developed of all the R32GTR GRP A cars and the Gibson motorsport team where actually supplying the suspension components for the majority of the japanese GRP A cars along with quite a few other components that they developed for the OZ cars. And they actually had a lot of funding from nissan australia as they suported the racing team to the tune of around 1million per year and also supplied the pace cars for the Australian GRP A racing in 91 and 92 and it was the banning of 4wd and turbo charging after 1992 that was the final straw for nissan australia to pull the pin on their support for motorsport in Australia


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

dazmo said:


> Sorry mate but I think you are mistaken on the fact that the Winfield/Gibson motorsport cars where 7 sec slower than japanese cars. They never actually competed on the same track as NISMO personally asked Gibson motorsport not to bring their cars to japan to compete for fear of them being quicker than their japanese counterparts.


Did you read post #49?
A Gibson-built, Gibson-run car _did_ actually run head-to-head with all the top line Group A cars in Japan _in period_. That's where the "7-seconds" quote comes from. It may not be a true and accurate representation of the differences between the cars ( and as has been mentioned, the Japanese and Australian cars were prepped to differing interpretations of the rules ) but it is all we have to go on. If one of the top line Japanese-prepped cars had been taken to Australia, and had effectively had rings run around it, then we would never had heard the last of it - would we? The Gibson Motorsport car's trip to Japan on the other hand is a story not often told. 

As for the for the oft-quoted "personal request" from NISMO asking Gibson not to bring their cars to Japan _.....for fear of them being quicker..."_ - that's an old chestnut that has plenty of mileage on it, but doesn't bear a bit of in-depth scrutiny...... 

Different versions of that quote date right back to the R30/R31 era, and have sometimes been used mistakenly in reference to the R32. I would not always trust the person using the quote to know which series of cars it refers to, as it has gone around the houses so many times.

First of all, the _main_ problem with Australian GT-Rs coming to Japan was about different tyre manufacturer sponsorship. That's where most of the pressure was coming from, and there was a status quo that didn't need to be upset without a good reason. But secondly, why would Nissan or NISMO need or want to have Gibson's outfit competing with them? On a business level that would be more like the tail trying to wag the dog, wouldn't it? The GT-R was not Gibson's product, and 'selling' the GT-R - with all the spin-off of associated glamour for other Nissan products - was what racing the GT-R was all about. Let's not over-romanticise about this being racing purely for the art of racing. Group A was about promoting a commercial product. 



dazmo said:


> The Winfield/Gibson motorsport cars where and are commonally acknowlaged as being the most heighly developed of all the R32GTR GRP A cars and the Gibson motorsport team where actually supplying the suspension components for the majority of the japanese GRP A cars along with quite a few other components that they developed for the OZ cars.


No disrespect, but the huge majority of Group A parts design, development and homologation was done in Japan before any cars were even sent to Australia. With a three year-odd career, the Group A R32 was always going to have parts uprated, re-developed and evolved to improve it. Yes, some of that took place in Australia - but let's not fool ourselves that this was a one-way street. If you are researching this in the English language you're going to hear more about it from an Australian perspective, and very little from the Japanese side. We need to take some of the Australian-sourced opinion with a pinch of salt, as it is often related by people who knew very little about what was going on in Japan. Personally I think the 'truth' - or the real story at least - lies somewhere between the versions of the two main protagonists.

dazmo, you mention that the Gibson Motorsport team were _"...supplying the suspension components for the majority of the japanese GRP A cars..."_ - so can you tell us more precisely about _which_ particular components you are referring to? I can only think of one thing off the top of my head, and there's a story behind that - just like there is for everything else. Presumably you must know the details if you felt the claim was worth repeating, so I'm all ears.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Not having done any research on the "who designed what" thing.

But at a guess the Holinger 6spd that was used after the factory ones started failing....These were used also in Japan.

Either way....We never got to see any of the Jap series when the R32 was racing, Just the Aussie Shell Touring Series where the Gibsons decimated the Puss-Rods (Commo's) and MK6 Cortinas (RS500's)

....So still tops my charts!


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## TTOBES (Sep 28, 2007)

I must put in a vote for the Winfield/Gibson cars as well...

As a Kiwi living in Aus when these cars were racing, they were my introduction to the GTR. We knew very little about the GTR's success elsewhere, only that they destroyed the opposition in 'our' premier race series. The fact that one was driven by a Kiwi was a bonus.
As has already been said, anyone living down under would more readily identify with these cars...

I have a copy of the 'Australian Muscle Car' magazine that features the GTR and it includes an interview with Gibson. He mentions the 'don't bring your cars to Japan, they might beat us' quote. I'll dig it out, before I risk putting my foot in it, as it includes the name of the person he was talking to...


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## eeiko321 (Oct 31, 2008)

dude, i was gonna rate it from your thread but then i realise MY ICONIC GT-R was NOT on there........

wheres the famous *HKS R33 GT-R*????

THAT BROKE THE RECORD FOR QUATER MILE


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## Gazmo1 (Jul 30, 2001)

Lith said:


> Heat Treatments most definitely not. Thats a recent thing, and not really an icon. Its all relative to where in the world you are - for me, these ones have been iconic in their own ways for GTRs.... between them have probably nearly 20 years of inspiring me
> 
> This guy needs no introduction - probably inspired many to go nuts making big power with their cars:
> 
> ...



You mean the one at the top from page 2? not sure why it isn't in the poll.


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

Mines R34 "Ultimate Response" for me!


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## Taiquri (Jan 15, 2007)

I like Nagisa-auto r34 :clap:


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## eeiko321 (Oct 31, 2008)

has anyone added the BLITZ R34 GT-R???
the fastest top speed


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## Rostampoor (Nov 20, 2006)

It's the calsonic R32 GT-R ofcourse.


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## GT-R Creations. (Nov 27, 2008)

For me it's a Mine's R34 ultimate response


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## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

The Lemon..........................how many other iconic GTR's has Clarkson done a full feature on?

After the Lemon, it has to be the Top Secret Drag R, as Hodgie mentioned.

They are the two most iconic GTR's out there, iconic as in the most well known. And isn't that the point of this thread and poll? 

How many people, other than playstation nuts and GTR nuts, know the other cars exist? Now compare that to how many people will have seen the Clarkson dvd featuring the Lemon, and how many will have seen it on youtube if they haven't seen the Clarkson dvd. 

I bet the Lemon is a bit more iconic than people realise.


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## DiRTgarage (Oct 5, 2007)

dazmo said:


> beaumackenzie said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry mate but I think you are mistaken on the fact that the Winfield/Gibson motorsport cars where 7 sec slower than japanese cars. They never actually competed on the same track as NISMO personally asked Gibson motorsport not to bring their cars to japan to compete for fear of them being quicker than their japanese counterparts. The Winfield/Gibson motorsport cars where and are commonally acknowlaged as being the most heighly developed of all the R32GTR GRP A cars and the Gibson motorsport team where actually supplying the suspension components for the majority of the japanese GRP A cars along with quite a few other components that they developed for the OZ cars. And they actually had a lot of funding from nissan australia as they suported the racing team to the tune of around 1million per year and also supplied the pace cars for the Australian GRP A racing in 91 and 92 and it was the banning of 4wd and turbo charging after 1992 that was the final straw for nissan australia to pull the pin on their support for motorsport in Australia
> ...


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## SAU_Roy (Sep 27, 2003)

PS30-SB said:


> Did you read post #49?
> dazmo, you mention that the Gibson Motorsport team were _"...supplying the suspension components for the majority of the japanese GRP A cars..."_ - so can you tell us more precisely about _which_ particular components you are referring to? I can only think of one thing off the top of my head, and there's a story behind that - just like there is for everything else. Presumably you must know the details if you felt the claim was worth repeating, so I'm all ears.


Interesting discussion. I know the custom rear hubs which changed the rear suspenion geometry of the GTR and also the 6spd gearboxes were two Australian developments of the GTR that came from GMS and its partners. Also the controls of the 4wd system were also an Australian development, with the cars having different front to rear drive ratios for different conditions/circumstances. 

The comment regarding the GMS cars being quicker then the Japanese/Nismo cars being an Australian sentiment may be true. But it didnt stop Racecar Engineering doing an article on the cars competing in Grp A and talking of the Australian GTRs as the quickest Grp A cars of the era. Racecar Engineering is an international publication, I doubt any one eye Australian pride woudl have tainted the integrity of the article

What livery, what year and who were the drivers of the GMS car that was 7 second slower? In Aus the Factory Nissan GTRs ran Yoko tyres whilst the customer GTR ran Dunlops, this was largely the reason for the variance in performance between the 3 cars. But never 7 seconds.


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

DiRTgarage said:


> the above post about Group A is the most accurate in this thread.


No, sorry I don't agree. This quote in particular is, I think, well wide of the mark:



beaumackenzie said:


> ... the Gibson motorsport team where actually supplying the suspension components for the majority of the japanese GRP A cars along with quite a few other components that they developed for the OZ cars.


This makes it sound as though - for example - the _majority_ of the suspension components on the Japanese Gr.A R32s were designed, developed and manufactured in Australia. I don't think that is the case. I don't dispute that _some_ componentry ( especially in later amendments and additions to the original homologation ) came to the Japanese cars from Australia, and that is easy to see from the updates and progressive developments of the cars, but the chauvinistic _"we showed them how"_ attitude one usually reads is pretty tiresome, and doesn't even _start_ to reflect the complexity of the situation. 



DiRTgarage said:


> PS30-SB if you were at this alleged race...please supply track location, event name and date...these records are easily tracked as all Group A cars were log booked.


Yes, I was at this _"alleged"_ race. If _you_ don't know anything about it, then it doesn't bode well for your knowledge of the movements and activities for Gibson Motor Sport's R32s, does it? 

Take a look at this thread on the Ten Tenths forum. It's actually a Gr.A Sierra thread, but the subject drifted slightly in the middle. Pay particular attention to posts #s 119, 120, 125, 130, 132, 136 and 144: Group A Ford Sierra RS500 - Page 10 - 10 Tenths Motorsport Forum

I've gone into the Australian vs Japanese Gr.A R32 development topic a little deeper on another thread of that forum. Here's a link to the thread: Group A Nissan Skyline DR30 and HR31 - 10 Tenths Motorsport Forum
It's actually a thread on the R30/R31 Gr.A cars, but the subject drifted to touch on the R32s too - which seems fitting, as I find many Australians seem to get the stories surrounding them slightly confused......



SAU_Roy said:


> The comment regarding the GMS cars being quicker then the Japanese/Nismo cars being an Australian sentiment may be true. But it didnt stop Racecar Engineering doing an article on the cars competing in Grp A and talking of the Australian GTRs as the quickest Grp A cars of the era. Racecar Engineering is an international publication, I doubt any one eye Australian pride woudl have tainted the integrity of the article


Sorry to disagree, but one of the main barriers that the researchers / writers of English language books and magazine articles on subjects such as this is that of the Japanese language. As a case in point, I've recently been _trying_ to help an English journalist write an article on a KPGC10 race car which is being given five pages in one of the most well known classic car magazines currently published. He's a well-respected journalist with excellent knowledge of cars and racing cars, but I don't think I'm exagerrating when I say that he knows _almost nothing_ about the cars. I'm sure he even resorted to using Wikipedia as part of his 'research', with the inevitable patchy results. The result has not yet been published, but I'm pretty confident in my prediction that it's going to be a lightweight 'fluff' piece with some pretty pictures. Another opportunity lost.....

The truth is that the most accurate, balanced and in-depth published information on the topic _is written in Japanese_. I think the same is true of the Japanese Gr.A R32, and a properly-researched, thoughtfully-written article that plumbed the full depths of the story would be a challenge unless the writer personally interviewed some of the main protagonists. And many of the main protagonists in the R32s case were Japanese. Simple as that. 



SAU_Roy said:


> What livery, what year and who were the drivers of the GMS car that was 7 second slower? In Aus the Factory Nissan GTRs ran Yoko tyres whilst the customer GTR ran Dunlops, this was largely the reason for the variance in performance between the 3 cars. But never 7 seconds.


Again, see above for the Ten-Tenths forum thread links - but the car in question was a GMS built ex-Winfield sponsored car taking part in the INTER-TEC race at FISCO in November 1992, running in the red with white stripe colours ( a la Winfield ) and title-sponsored at that event by 'AIM'. Drivers were - as I'm sure you will realise - the Thai national who 'bought' the car and his co-driver, and at least some Gibson Motor Sport personnel were running the car for him at Fuji.

Naturally, I am quite aware of the likely shortcomings of the two drivers in the car for this race - and with it being a 500km race I'm sure their target was to qualify steadily anyway - but nonetheless they _did_ qualify 7 seconds slower than the pole sitter. Yes they _were_ on Dunlops, but so was the car that finished second when they finished tenth overall and seventh in class.

Personally I would not use this performance as any kind of accurate measure of the 'superiority' / 'inferiority' of the Japanese vs Australian cars, but I _do_ wonder whether if - for example - a top-line Japanese built car was brought to Australia and had tugged around behind three class 2 cars, we would hear the last of it? I think some misguided people would use it as a yardstick. Possibly the same kind of people that would say that a Gibson-built R32 _"never raced in Japan"_..........? 

As I said in that Ten-Tenths thread, a bit of mutual respect would be nice. Ill-informed, jingoistic flagwaving is not pretty _or_ clever.


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## SAU_Roy (Sep 27, 2003)

PS30-SB said:


> Take a look at this thread on the Ten Tenths forum. It's actually a Gr.A Sierra thread, but the subject drifted slightly in the middle. Pay particular attention to posts #s 119, 120, 125, 130, 132, 136 and 144: Group A Ford Sierra RS500 - Page 10 - 10 Tenths Motorsport Forum
> 
> Personally I would not use this performance as any kind of accurate measure of the 'superiority' / 'inferiority' of the Japanese vs Australian cars, but I _do_ wonder whether if - for example - a top-line Japanese built car was brought to Australia and had tugged around behind three class 2 cars, we would hear the last of it? I think some misguided people would use it as a yardstick. Possibly the same kind of people that would say that a Gibson-built R32 _"never raced in Japan"_..........?
> 
> As I said in that Ten-Tenths thread, a bit of mutual respect would be nice. Ill-informed, jingoistic flagwaving is not pretty _or_ clever.


Hey i am all for the facts...and i think i am coming at this from neutral ground. I have no problem believing that the Aim car was 7 seconds slower. It was purchased and exported from Gibson and wasnt set up, maintained or run by anyone from Gibson. I have no problem believing that gentlemen racers with a low budget team had less then a real idea on how to set up a car.

An ex factory car being driven by privateer with questionable setup and driving ability means the 7 second things is probably true but paints a hugely biased picture. The assumption that white blokes standing next to a car are Gibson employees could be correct...but its a prety big leap especially when they were a Thai team and the blokes maintaining the car in Thailand were caucasians. So....

Your comments on Racecar Engineering could be right. But i ask if you are familiar with the publication as they dont seem to have problems going into details of the likes of the SARD V8 MR2 etc etc., TRD Supras, and Japanese GT cars that were run at Le Mans through the 90s. Many "Japanese" teams running cars in Europe are heavily staffed by Europeans etc , but the GT cars like i mentioned being covered by Racecar Engineering were largely Japenese team efforts. Not Japanese manufacturers using established/experienced European teams to build and run the car

So i accept there could be an element of truth to what you say...no one point paints the whole picture and i think an article in an engineering publication would have substance, especially since the photos and data etc must have had the cooperation of the teams.


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## SAU_Roy (Sep 27, 2003)

..oh, and this is about the final thing i can think of...which doesnt mean one side is clearly correct and the other wrong; rather lends weight to the argument for the GMS cars.

Go and watch the 1992 Bathurst videos and listen to the comments of Anders Olofsson (RIP) He had drive the Nismo cars in Japan so gave an honest comparison between the cars. Now i cant recall the team he was driving for in Japan but i recall he won the championship twice and was winning races including the 1992 Fuji race...so the car was competitive


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

SAU_Roy said:


> An ex factory car being driven by privateer with questionable setup and driving ability means the 7 second things is probably true but paints a hugely biased picture. The assumption that white blokes standing next to a car are Gibson employees could be correct...but its a prety big leap especially when they were a Thai team and the blokes maintaining the car in Thailand were caucasians. So....


I fully acknowledge that the '7 second' qualifying difference _"paints a hugely biased picture"_ ( I have made that quite clear I believe ), but a Gibson-built ( and I still maintain, at least _partly_ Gibson-run ) car *RAN IN JAPAN*. As far as your colleague Mr 'DiRT Garage' on SAU is concerned this is _"dribble"_, and never happened. Seems to me that you didn't know about it until today either. Am I right? 

I rest my case as far as that point is concerned: Most of the well-informed people who talk and write about the _Australian_ Gr.A BNR32s know next to nothing about the _Japanese_ built and run Gr.A BNR32s. That's why you will see very little mention of what that particular Gibson-built car did on it's little far-Eastern holiday, apart from the fact that _it eventually came back_. Presumably it is once again _properly set up_?



SAU_Roy said:


> Your comments on Racecar Engineering could be right. But i ask if you are familiar with the publication......


Yes, I'm familiar with Racecar Engineering. 



SAU_Roy said:


> So i accept there could be an element of truth to what you say...no one point paints the whole picture....


Absolutely. So I'd like to read an Australian-based or UK-based forum thread on the subject without having to read all that "we were best" nonsense when what is 'best' is such a subjective question. I see very few English language comments that point out the level of the Japanese Gr.A championship, and the fact that Nissan / NISMO ( through REINIK especially ) almost completely controlled who would win Class 1 for the best part of three years whilst the BNR32 was current. Barring race incidents and failures, they had it pretty much sewn up and could decide _which_ GT-R would win purely because _they_ controlled the wick. They didn't _need_ to turn the wick up any more than they usually did because there was really nothing there to challenge them. The Australian scene was nothing like that, was it? It was far more competitive, and therefore gave far more _necessity_ to develop - let alone the _pride and thirst_ to develop. I take my hat off to the Australian teams because I know what they they built was superb, but I'm sorry I won't have any of this nonsense about the Japanese Gr.A BNR32s being all Australian-engineered, Australian-developed and using all Australian-supplied parts because it is a bloody mile away from the truth. That's my main bone of contention. 



SAU_Roy said:


> Go and watch the 1992 Bathurst videos and listen to the comments of Anders Olofsson (RIP) .....


Actually, I was lucky enough to speak to Anders Oloffson twice when he was running in Japanese Gr.A. The big, quiet and unassuming, spectacle-wearing guy was something of a hero to me and he commanded huge respect amongst the teams and mechanics. I was more in awe of his WEC and Gr.C races for Nissan during the late Eighties and early Nineties, but I know he put in a lot of miles developing the BNR32 and had a lot of input with it before it debuted. I'm sure that - could we ask him now, although it is sadly too late - he would point out that the two championships were vastly different, and demanded a different approach in car build as well as race tactics. I don't know what he said on those 1992 Bathurst videos ( I'll have to go and watch ) but I'd honestly take anything said on camera at the time with a little pinch of salt, bearing in mind that 'politics', and everything that goes with that, would always be in a driver's mind. In just the same way, Fred Gibson can be excused for promoting _Fred Gibson_ whenever the subject of these cars comes up. It's _business_ to people like him. People like me ( and I presume you ) are just sitting up here in the peanut gallery watching..........

Like I have said so many times, I'm just hoping for a little bit more _respect_ to be shown from the English speaking side for the Japanese guys that designed, engineered, built and ran these cars. I know it was not a 100% Japanese effort ( show me a motorsport-related effort in the modern era that is 100% single nationality ) but I WILL speak up and _try_ to defend the work of people that are being overshadowed by others who arguably had a lesser part in the big story. I think I owe it to them.


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## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Wasn't this thread about iconic GTR's?

At what point did it descend into this; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^see above posts, for details^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Who cares who drove what, or who made what parts!! That wasn't part of the original thread posters requirements, was it?


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Boosted said:


> At what point did it descend into this; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^see above posts, for details^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Who cares who drove what, or who made what parts!! That wasn't part of the original thread posters requirements, was it?


You are of course quite right. _'Pearls before swine.......'_ and all that....



Boosted said:


> The Lemon..........................how many other iconic GTR's has Clarkson done a full feature on?


LOL. That settles it. Enough said, I think. Discussion closed. 



> After the Lemon, it has to be the Top Secret Drag R, as Hodgie mentioned.


No, really. It has to be the Lemon, doesn't it? 



Boosted said:


> They are the two most iconic GTR's out there, iconic as in the most well known.


:chuckle:


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## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Do you just argue for the sake of it, and like the sound of your own voice? Perhaps that's why you have a problem understanding that my post was my own personal opinion, and the reason I gave was the reason that I came to my opinion in the first place.

When you've quite finished blowing hot air, have a read of my post again. Now that I've explained it to you, perhaps it will sink in.

Not related to sidious, are you? :chuckle:


Any chance you can get back on topic now, or are you going to wander off on another tangent for yet another 'Encyclopedia Britannica Cut & Paste' session?


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Boosted said:


> Do you just argue for the sake of it, and like the sound of your own voice?


Argue? It's a _discussion_, not a monologue. Kind of thing you might _expect_ to find in a 'forum'.

Don't really see why you would object so strongly to my posts on this thread though. It's not costing you anything, is it? You always have the option to ignore what you don't like. 

And with over 700 posts since you joined in June, you've been writing a fair bit yourself. Mostly one-liners, I presume.....?


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## SAU_Roy (Sep 27, 2003)

PS30-SB said:


> but I'm sorry I won't have any of this nonsense about the Japanese Gr.A BNR32s being all Australian-engineered, Australian-developed and using all Australian-supplied parts because it is a bloody mile away from the truth. That's my main bone of contention.
> 
> 
> I don't know what he said on those 1992 Bathurst videos ( I'll have to go and watch ) but I'd honestly take anything said on camera at the time with a little pinch of salt,
> ...


Fair enough and understand fully where you are coming from. I feel the same way when i read "The GTR was banned because it was too good for the other cars"  So wrong and based on flag (dick) swinging sentiment and not on facts.

As for me the most iconic GTR is the R33 HKS GTR that held the 0-300km/h record for a period there. It was the footage that made my jaw hit the ground and begin to love the R33. 

But the car that gives the GTR the most hyp ewold have to be the Mines car...so many people that know nothing of cars or Skylines know this car


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

SAU_Roy said:


> As for me the most iconic GTR is the R33 HKS GTR that held the 0-300km/h record for a period there. It was the footage that made my jaw hit the ground and begin to love the R33.


That would be Veilside you are thinking of


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

I blame the Australians for bursting into tears an crying because their 1960's designed engines and chassis couldnt keep up with some thing new.
It would have been cool to see some jap cars run in the atcc, but it never happened because the ozzies wanted to ruin good racing and invent some boring 2 car racing.
Getting around the rules buy stating the cars had to be "australian made v8s".
Anyway .....
I wasnt aware that the jap cars that ran in their domestic series had additional weight added and limits on boost etc:, so why are we even comparing the 2 cars ?

To answer the question 

Calsonic
Gibson
Not necessarily in that order.


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Agreed


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## SAU_Roy (Sep 27, 2003)

Lith said:


> That would be Veilside you are thinking of


There were plenty of people involved the the Option Mag shootouts but the car i am thinking of is the HKS R33. I know because my friend did the video compiles for the Australian HKS distributer  It is the same car that when it ran 2540s with a HKS (Hollinger) 6 spd and ran 58s at Tsukuba...suc a cool car, even if it did have Tri-Spoke Advan rims


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## DiRTgarage (Oct 5, 2007)

most iconic is this baby im hamming it up in


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## Dynamix (Nov 1, 2007)

DiRTgarage said:


> most iconic is this baby im hamming it up in


Such a BOGAN dirtgarage.

Most iconic GT-R to me? The one that is sitting in my garage


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## DiRTgarage (Oct 5, 2007)

Dynamix said:


> Such a BOGAN dirtgarage.
> 
> Most iconic GT-R to me? The one that is sitting in my garage


i wish i could be cool like you...can you teach me :bowdown1:


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## icydude (Nov 15, 2006)

group c calsonic car


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## Dynamix (Nov 1, 2007)

DiRTgarage said:


> i wish i could be cool like you...can you teach me :bowdown1:


first you get an r32 gt-r.. then put some low mounts on it and run 9's.. then put a t62 on it ect.. simple really.


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## DiRTgarage (Oct 5, 2007)

Dynamix said:


> first you get an r32 gt-r.. then put some low mounts on it and run 9's.. then put a t62 on it ect.. simple really.


looks like im on track then :chuckle:


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## Dynamix (Nov 1, 2007)

DiRTgarage said:


> looks like im on track then :chuckle:


pictures say a thousand words..


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## Miness (Aug 24, 2005)

mines R34 simple as...


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## JAY-R32 (Sep 1, 2003)

Simple as ,Calsonic R32 GT-R Group A race car , as indicated (by quite some margin) below :thumbsup:



The Hakosuka 16 4.79% 
Calsonic R32 GT-R Group A race car 148 44.31% 
JUN R33 Super/Hyper Lemon 33 9.88% 
Mines R34 "Ultimate Response" 78 23.35% 
Nismo R34 Z-Tune 57 17.07% 
R35 GT-R 2 0.60%


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## phat_gadgy (Jan 23, 2005)

Calsonic R32GTR for me:thumbsup:


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

just to make it 3 in a row :chuckle:

R32 GTR Calsonic all the way !!! :thumbsup:


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## qikz (Jan 12, 2009)

I voted Lemon because I've got one. 
It doesn't have a sequential, just a Getrag 6 speed and about 600 rwhp (before I started) its about to go live and be road registered/plated so to me its more useful than the Lemon.


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## furrywoolyhatuk (Apr 16, 2009)

Three numbers and one letter.....

400R

Say no more!


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## alaa_sti (Dec 3, 2008)

im in love with mines r34 looks sexy and perfect:thumbsup:


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## R32Harv (Dec 2, 2007)

well i gotta vote The Hakosuka, even though the Calsonic R32 GT-R Group A race car would be very close to it also. Dam if i could afford either i would flip a coin.
on a side note has anyone seen the youtube vid of the Hakosuka GTR YouTube - Hakosuka Skyline GTR what an engine note!:thumbsup:


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## Pete G (Aug 18, 2008)

I wasn't familiar with this car but am a big fan of Webers,- old, but sound beautiful


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## Pailin (Oct 17, 2001)

I am going to have to add my name behind the:

Calsonic R32 GT-R Group A

too.

Every time I think of the huge successes this car has had and all that it brings to the team, drivers and fans - just kinda sends a shiver of admiration and awe at the whole stage of all its achievements!!!

I probably started Loving Skylines as I gradually started hearing about them in some motoring magazines - which lead me here to this great site long ago

which in turn lead me to read about the amazing history of these Great cars.

Cars like the Mines R34 left me dreaming of what I could one day have something like...

Cars ( their historic achievements ) like the Calsonic and reading about their racing past always sends a shiver down my spine - Amazing achievements almost too good to be true


I am still looking forward to enjoying my own little piece of this amazing dream...

a little more patience and the timing will finally be right :smokin:


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## GTR-Dreamer (Apr 9, 2008)

For me it all started with this one,


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## madandy (Jun 6, 2007)

This one :









Group A ceased because of it. _It was faster and more powerful than the Japanese Group A spec cars of the time_

I voted for the Calsonic though due to its internatioanl recognition.


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

madandy said:


> Group A ceased because of it.


It was a little bit more complicated than that.....



madandy said:


> _It was faster and more powerful than the Japanese Group A spec cars of the time_


The only time they ever went head-to-head, the Japanese Gr.A cars made it look slow.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

PS30-SB said:


> It was a little bit more complicated than that.....
> 
> 
> 
> The only time they ever went head-to-head, the Japanese Gr.A cars made it look slow.


From what I was told by former Gibson Racing employees, They were told by Nissan/Nismo to not compete with their cars. I believe the boost was turned down. They were 740hp in quallie trim.


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Sub Boy said:


> From what I was told by former Gibson Racing employees, They were told by Nissan/Nismo to not compete with their cars. I believe the boost was turned down. They were 740hp in quallie trim.


We've discussed this before of course, but the only time ( I am aware ) that a Gibson-built Gr.A R32 GT-R went head-to-head with any of the Works ( NISMO ) built Gr.A R32 GT-Rs was in Japan, and the Gibson car was even beaten by three of the Class 2 BMWs. They may well have been asked not to get in the way of the title battle, but _six laps_ behind the winner......?

Of course, we _know_ why the Gibson car was so slow on that occasion ( look at the drivers ), and the Gibson cars were _of course_ beautifully built, powerful and very fast indeed. To compare them like-for-like with the NISMO built cars is to miss the point; They were built for a different style of Gr.A racing in two quite different championships. NISMO generally didn't _need_ to have the kind of peak power that Gibsons were using because they _dominated_ the championships regardless, and were effectively racing against themselves. 

Fans of the Australian cars sometimes make it sound as though NISMO ( or Reinik ) were _unable_ to build engines with the same power that the Gibson cars had, which is nonsense.


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

Without a doubt it's the Calsonic R32 GT-R Group A race car for me :smokin:

That car is legendary and made history :squintdan


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## cooljustin (Jun 6, 2009)

Here goes one more Calsonic R32 admirer!


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## Min-e (Sep 23, 2009)

I voted for the Calsonic R32. With the likes of Gran Turismo, it just made this car even more iconic and recognised internationally. A lot of people didn’t have a clue what a Skyline was before this game was released, let alone what a Group A Calsonic backed Skyline R32 was and even what series it raced in.

However, with this being said the Hakosuka is absolutely awesome, and what a SOUND! One of the best N/A induction and exhaust sounds ever in my opinion.


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

madandy said:


> This one :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


likewise - notice my avatar


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## Little Nismo (May 31, 2002)

Winfield R32 GTR which creamed Bathurst in the early nineties and was banned because of it. Lets not forget it was the Australian media that coined the name Godzilla and immortalized the GTR in Western car culture.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

The R35 is not just a new car but a leap in technology, so it has to be the R35 !!!

Sorry guys all the rest are "lovely" and have done their bit for the "Skyline" name IN HISTORY, but we are in a different century now and the R35 pitted against anything else (new or old) has stated it's claim to real world dominance!


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## Little Nismo (May 31, 2002)

*One Small step for a car, one giant leap for car kind.*



Steve said:


> The R35 is not just a new car but a leap in technology, so it has to be the R35 !!!
> 
> Sorry guys all the rest are "lovely" and have done their bit for the "Skyline" name IN HISTORY, but we are in a different century now and the R35 pitted against anything else (new or old) has stated it's claim to real world dominance!


But hang on a minute what has really changed which the R32 didn't have back then?

4wd?
Torque proportioning?
Twin Turbo?
6 Cylinder?
Big braking?
Big Horse power?
Grip grip grip?

R35 is a brilliant car but does it not just build on the platform built by previous variants mostly the venerable R32?

If the Winfield car was on the grid in Oran park in the Auzzie V8 super car series [the successor series to what it used to compete in] this year 17years after it last competed it would have qualified 5th and still done the fastest race lap. That is on it's 1992 technology tires!

Oh BTW the car is now worth 2million dollars if you want to buy it.


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

yes little nismo, im with u on that!
The winfield gtr was then penalised with 250kg and 14psi to try keep it more competitive here in aust...end result they boycott the race after 3yrs of pure humiliation

How do u beat such a track record? R32 was the genuine article labelled as godzilla


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

Got to be the Hako


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## LuisGTR32 (Mar 10, 2009)

Calsonic R32 GT-R Group A race car


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## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

The standard car man always, legend.


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

can't believe the Drag R is up for sale at only £27k

If this was for sale a year or so ago surely £40k.

I want it but I just spent almost the same on my new, wish I'd got an old banger now..and i paid cash


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

cleethorpes said:


> can't believe the Drag R is up for sale at only £27k
> 
> If this was for sale a year or so ago surely £40k.
> 
> I want it but I just spent almost the same on my new, wish I'd got an old banger now..and i paid cash


What does this Drag R look like? Any pics?


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

Harlow Jap Autos : Top Secret Drag R II R33 GT-R


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

oh yes - nagata's gtr  piece of history that 1!


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

and the price... where can I find £27k in a hurry????


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## Chokonen888 (Feb 3, 2009)

One of the Top Secret R34's?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Digging it out from the grave. Does this answer any of the questions about Gibson, and Nismo?

YouTube - 1990 Nissan Motorsports Promo video R32 GT-R - Australia


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

tyndago said:


> Digging it out from the grave. Does this answer any of the questions about Gibson, and Nismo?
> 
> YouTube - 1990 Nissan Motorsports Promo video R32 GT-R - Australia


I think people will still see what they _want_ or _expect_ to see. The video shows Japanese NISMO staff helping to put together a car in Australia, whilst the voiceover is talking about _"the first"_ Gr.A car - but of course "the first" Gr.A BNR32 GT-R wasn't built in Australia. They mean the first Gr.A BNR32 GT-R _to be built in Australia....._

The video is a Nissan Australia Pty. promotion piece, and its viewpoint reflects that. Understandably.

I'm interested to hear what _you_ think, Tyndago. As you obviously remembered the debate, you will hopefully have a view too?

Cheers,
Alan T.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

PS30-SB said:


> I think people will still see what they _want_ or _expect_ to see. The video shows Japanese NISMO staff helping to put together a car in Australia, whilst the voiceover is talking about _"the first"_ Gr.A car - but of course "the first" Gr.A BNR32 GT-R wasn't built in Australia. They mean the first Gr.A BNR32 GT-R _to be built in Australia....._
> 
> I'm interested to hear what _you_ think, Tyndago. As you obviously remembered the debate, you will hopefully have a view too?


The cars were a "world" build honestly. I don't think any single country could claim the whole car. The transmission came from Australia - Holinger. The ECU/ fueling came from Electramotive in the US. The chassis and ATTESA tuning came from Japan. 

I am not old enough to know the whole thing. I was here in the US, so I saw very little of it. 

The PR side, the actual side are two different things. I think the Gibson cars made a lot more power than the Japanese cars, just based on the fuel system they had to run. 

I would love to see the race where the Gibson car ran in Japan.


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

tyndago said:


> The cars were a "world" build honestly. I don't think any single country could claim the whole car.


I think we'll end up agreeing to disagree on this. For me, the Gr.A BNR32 was more like around 90% Japanese product initially, and then a bit less later.



TYNDAGO said:


> The transmission came from Australia - Holinger. The ECU/ fueling came from Electramotive in the US. The chassis and ATTESA tuning came from Japan.


The Hollinger transmission(s) were an _amendment_ to the original JAF/FISA homologation. The car was homologated for Gr.A without the Hollinger. I think it's quite clear who was responsible for the initial planning, engineering, development and homologation. 

The Japanese cars were not homologated with Electramotive engine managment software either. Again, that was just for the Australian cars. Electramotive were supplying their own products to Nissan, but I believe in the period we are discussing Nissan was linked to Electramotive through NPTI etc. Certainly Nissan's own Japanese development teams were building engines for the Gr.C and WSC cars, in _parallel_ with Electramotive. 



tyndago said:


> I am not old enough to know the whole thing. I was here in the US, so I saw very little of it.


I guess my viewpoint is different to most, as I was attending Japanese Gr.A races and had friends who were directly involved. That's probably why I try to stick up for the Japanese side when I think I see them being short changed. When you look at the JAF/FISA homologation papers and the NISMO Gr.A kit list for the BNR32, I think it shows very clearly just what went into the cars, and where most of that came from. 

Again, not knocking the immensely good Australian cars or their superb efforts in helping to improve the car later - just trying to equalise and rationalise the perspective a little.

Cheers,
Alan T.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

49 votes for the R35 and only one person with the 'courage' to back up their vote with a post!

The 35 isn't iconic, as it currently has no racing pedegree and yes the same may be said of the R33, yet the fact that 33's have been modded so wildly that they can be listed amongst such racing pedigree as the calsonic etc speaks testiment to their following and ability.

PS my vote goes to the Lemon, i'm embarrased to say in my teens I was reading Max Power/ Fast Car etc and the Top Secret Supra and Super Lemon were always the ones that got my attention.


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## RadoGTST (Jul 5, 2010)

What's r35 doing there... ;-)


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## Jakester (Sep 27, 2003)

RadoGTST said:


> What's r35 doing there... ;-)


I guess it does bear the GTR moniker. Had the thread been titled "Most Iconic Skyline" it would not have been on the list.


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## h8skyliner33GTR (Nov 9, 2010)

hmmm, why is there no nismo clarion R33 JGTC car or a nismo Xanavi r34 JGTC race car? both are seen just as much as the calsonic r32. If they were here i would definitly choose the clarion r33. But the calsonic one is sexy as well but needs to be wider  bigger is better


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## de wonderful (Apr 28, 2011)

This thread is stupid. The R32-34 GTR's were Skylines first and foremost. The R35 GTR is a totally different car not a Skyline. You may as well add the BMW M3 GTR.


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## de wonderful (Apr 28, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> PS my vote goes to the Lemon, i'm embarrased to say in my teens I was reading Max Power/ Fast Car etc and the Top Secret Supra and Super Lemon were always the ones that got my attention.


Not_ Nemesis_?


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## fun123 (Apr 16, 2010)

PS30-SB said:


> I think we'll end up agreeing to disagree on this. For me, the Gr.A BNR32 was more like around 90% Japanese product initially, and then a bit less later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After some research in Japan, agree with what Alan is saying here.


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

for further clarification, when alan (PS30-SB) refers to the "australian cars" as above - is he making reference to the limited edition 100 aust delivered gtr's?


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## fun123 (Apr 16, 2010)

Marko R1 said:


> for further clarification, when alan (PS30-SB) refers to the "australian cars" as above - is he making reference to the limited edition 100 aust delivered gtr's?


Hi,

I don't think he is, he is talking about Group A and also talking about Hollinger transmissions which have never been sold in a road car.I know Holinger have made and sold about 120 of them in total


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

Hollinger only released 120 gearboxes, really? That seems quite low


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## fun123 (Apr 16, 2010)

Marko R1 said:


> Hollinger only released 120 gearboxes, really? That seems quite low


Yes it is around that figure.

They were $18000 AUD when I bought my last one and are now $20,000 so at that price I guess they aren't exactly flying off the shelves.

There are so many different ratio combinations to choose from but most people choose the Tomei type ratio's

Most were sold to Tomei in Japan.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

de wonderful said:


> This thread is stupid. The R32-34 GTR's were Skylines first and foremost. The R35 GTR is a totally different car not a Skyline. You may as well add the BMW M3 GTR.


:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle: :thumbsup:


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

fun123 said:


> Yes it is around that figure.
> 
> They were $18000 AUD when I bought my last one and are now $20,000 so at that price I guess they aren't exactly flying off the shelves.
> 
> ...


Not cheap but the best of the best! Is it a standard 5speed h pattern or 6speed? I guess this is what they used here in aust in the group a series with the winfield and gio gtr?

I have a brochure pic of a plain red group a but hard to tell if it was street registerable or were they just a track weapon? Do you know how many were released? I also think this hits the top of the most iconic gtr list


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

There is such a lack of info on the group a gtr so if anyone can share more specs or pics, please do so


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## fun123 (Apr 16, 2010)

Marko R1 said:


> Not cheap but the best of the best! Is it a standard 5speed h pattern or 6speed? I guess this is what they used here in aust in the group a series with the winfield and gio gtr?
> 
> I have a brochure pic of a plain red group a but hard to tell if it was street registerable or were they just a track weapon? Do you know how many were released? I also think this hits the top of the most iconic gtr list


Original Hollinger's in the Group A cars were H pattern 6 speed, there were various gearboxes with different ratios, they even had one for tight tracks that had a 1:1 top gear. There was one unit produced with a magnesium bell housing. 
The current Holinger is a 6 speed sequential, which is no longer listed on Hollingers website but still available on order


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## fun123 (Apr 16, 2010)

Marko R1 said:


> There is such a lack of info on the group a gtr so if anyone can share more specs or pics, please do so


What specifically would you like to know?


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

I'll see if I can find the group a brochure on my laptop and post it up here, I'd really like to know the specs on that group a (engine, box, drivetrain etc), how many were sold and were they released for racing only?


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## fun123 (Apr 16, 2010)

Marko R1 said:


> I'll see if I can find the group a brochure on my laptop and post it up here, I'd really like to know the specs on that group a (engine, box, drivetrain etc), how many were sold and were they released for racing only?


Not many were sold as they were Y55,000,000 new 
They were used locally in Japan for racing
They were not a road car at all.
Engine, used special Group A block
Various gearboxes
Transfer case was magnesium as were suspension uprights
Caster, camber and kingpin angle were substantially different from the road car, as were droop, ride height and suspension travel(front inner guards had to be slightly modified)
As far as I know the Australian cars were built up from parts, not actually delivered new from Nismo 
Rear subframe on Australian cars had different pickup points than 1990 and 1991 subframe on Jap cars


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## Marko R1 (Apr 18, 2008)

here is the brochure on the group a...if u look closely you can read the specs as follows:

ceramic turbo's, triple plate clutch, 550ps.
also note the nismo sticker on front 1/4 panel


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

I have to say that the car that got me most excited over the gtr skyline was rocket rons r33, when i saw it launch once at north wield i knew i had to have one, albeit slightly slower than his lol


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## KingOfTheGT-R (May 21, 2011)

R35 all day.


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## Sinth (Sep 26, 2010)

R35 by a country mile


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

I love the 33.. But the 34 is and always will be the iconic family member


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

R35 is THE yardstick. They don't do a sh1t version :chuckle:


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

R35 all the way is the best car on the road


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## the King (Sep 23, 2007)

Make mine-Mine's. Recognised by most anyone even the casual observer knows the legend of that Super Beast...


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

I would to be able to say the Hakosuka or the GTR, but went for the Calsonic race car and its the right choice


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## Webber (Jul 17, 2012)

Has to be R35 for me!


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

Most iconic... Hakosuka ..
most ' run of the mill ' R35


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

how can the r35 even be considered as iconic? it not even out of puberty yet.
r32 or r34

r32 for history and race pedigree
r34 for keeing the gtr name alive
r35 owners should kiss the r34's arse for without its popularity the gtr would have died of


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

JTJUDGE said:


> how can the r35 even be considered as iconic? it not even out of puberty yet.
> r32 or r34
> 
> r32 for history and race pedigree
> ...


+1
Love the 34


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## bborat (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm biassed but the original r32 in grey, or the calsonic,,,,, I think you have to put things in to perspective, just have a think or google what the competion was in 1989-early 90,s,, no wonder the big europeans quaked.


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## Little Nismo (May 31, 2002)

the R32 was not the first gtr so not the original.
What about the R31 or R30 keeping the skyline badge alive after the disaster of the ken and Mary.
Or the hakosuka the original original.


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