# Dont waste your time with aftermarket pod filters?



## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi2yo4UqPI

Interesting, but I would imagine on a RB26 there would be even more hot air floating around so factory air box is the best solution here.

Would like to do a back to back test with my ARC air box and a factory one...


----------



## RXXXIV (Sep 3, 2007)

Old story that is.

Has been discussed like a gazillion times.

In the end an unrestrictive air filter can be an advantage if power level raises and stock box, air feed and filter become too restrictive. It is recommended though to install some heat shielding to the intake and a direct cold air feed too.

People seem to forget that especially on turbo charged engines air will be heated up by compression of air due to use of turbos anyway. So it is not comparable to naturally aspirated engines regarding the loss of power due to hotter intake air temperature. Also there is still the intercooler doing its work before air enters intake manifold and combustion chamber.


----------



## mgtkr1 (Aug 27, 2015)

I personally think the difference in air intake temps between an airbox and pod filters on a turbo charged car will be negligible, esp when on the move. the heat from the turbo's is likely to be more than either what pod filters or a forward facing airbox/shielded pods will generate havig said that, cooler ambient temp does seem to make a difference to the way an engine performs, even turbo cars so there must be something in it? I honestly think if anything, pod filters lose power to a majority of cars vs the standard airbox unless the airbox cannot supply the demand for the turbo/turbo's. in a nut shell on modified cars where the turbo's ve is greater than the airbox. if you are forced to run pod filters then a heat shield cant be a bad thing. I run pods at the minute but only because my car came with them. if I had the factory airbox then this is what I would run with a top quality filter. only theory on my part btw,imsure opinions will differ


----------



## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I know its been discussed to death, my point of the thread is if you have an air box don't bother wasting your money buying pod filters. We have a lot of new people here and new to Skyline and turbo ownership and for some they consider this as the first port of call for upgrades. 

OEM air box with a good filter is not restrictive as people make them out to be. Easily good for up to 650 bhp as demonstrated by Nismo and Mines in Japan.










Also the HKS foam filters and others that are similar are absolutely useless at filtration.


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Same was said about stock R35 air boxes, nothing wrong with them up to quite high power levels but people got rid of them and replaced with K&N cones and, worse still, shitty ITG foam filters. Standard parts just don't look that sexy I guess.


----------



## f5twister (Feb 5, 2013)

dont compare the old hks filters with the new ones totally different + hks recommends to change them every 15000 km


----------



## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

People get rid of R35 Brembo calipers too because apparently they are shit lol


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

It's all irrelevant unless you are measuring charge temps at the plenum.


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

There is a very old thread here where Scott, who works in this area at Dagenham, compared various filters on the bench, etc.

iirc, the conclusion was that if you do swap the airbox, use Apexi, as the rest are shite.


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Blitz SUS air filters are actually strainers for badgers and small children who get in the way. Apart from that they just knacker your engine.
A nice panel filter is perfect. Why gives a poo about a few degrees here and there. I'd rather have an engine breathing clean air.


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Found it.


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Good read that was, quite funny in places.


----------



## f5twister (Feb 5, 2013)

again i would like to add that hks is now using a different filter element since the test was done


----------



## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

The factory R32 air box is very restrictive in comparison to the R33 and R34......so past 400hp I'd be binning the factory box in an R32.

Pretty easy to make a cold air plate to keep the heat away, but yeah, only use a K&N or an Apexi filter.....those HKS foam mushrooms are crap


----------



## teetee (Jun 30, 2013)

Does anyone have photos where and how you take colder air to filter area on r33? E: with aftermarket filter, no oem air box.


----------



## teetee (Jun 30, 2013)

teetee said:


> Does anyone have photos where and how you take colder air to filter area on r33? E: with aftermarket filter, no oem air box.


some writing errors:chuckle: Does it worth cutting hole on the metal plate under filter? Or make side vent bigger?


----------



## K66 SKY (Jan 25, 2005)

moleman said:


> Found it.


Not read that before but found it to be very interesting and extremely informative! This reply below from that topic summed it all up for me though :-




Scott said:


> _*Thanks Chris,
> My point entirly. You make a mod, unknowingly down
> grading the filteration performance of your filter, all for an extra 5 bhp!
> 
> ...



Makes me wonder why more Owners don't share their personal experiences _(be it good or bad)_ more often with the products they buy to Tune their cars?! It always makes for an interesting read on here especially when proper measuring equipment and science is used.

JM2PW!


----------



## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

I always ran the apexi cotton filters, not trusting the mesh variants. I think the reason many people change them (more so on NA cars) is the induction noise rather than the power.

Unless your liberating another 50+ hp, it's rarely noticable.


----------



## K66 SKY (Jan 25, 2005)

gtr mart said:


> *I always ran the apexi cotton filters, not trusting the mesh variants. *


These were _(and still are)_ fitted to my car when I bought it, Guess the previous Owner _(and ex-Forum Member)_ might have read that very thread before making the decision to fit them to what became my Skyline GT-R!


----------



## GOGS 2 (Jun 21, 2009)

I have done a dyno run in my r32 gtr with standard airbox and apexi filters it had steel wheeled standards turbo fitted at the time 1.3 bar. 

The standard airbox made 20lbs more torque and peak torque was nearly 1000 rpm lower. The apexi filters made 10 more hp at peak power surprisingly

The run done with the standard airbox was on a hotter day I don't know if that was the reason for the 10hp loss or not


----------



## THEGTRMORTGAGE (Apr 7, 2016)

which material is best for heat shielding the air filters from engine heat soak and in my gtr there is a large loss of power because of this once the engine bay is too hot and the air filter is sucking in hotter air, however I can see no space for cold air feed piping upto the twin air pods? Where is the majority of air being feed from on r33 gtr? 

would it help to remove bottom left indicator and black grill and fit air trumpet there?
or is the air sufficient enough just not cold enough?

Thanks


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

What air intake temperature rise do you see to result in your power loss?


----------



## THEGTRMORTGAGE (Apr 7, 2016)

Hi, im not really sure what the exact temperature is but I do know when it happens if I leave the car 10-15 mins to cool down - my full power is back again.

It is really noticeable when it losses power and feels like it needs to clear a blockage - it is usually when oil temp reaches 130c - 140c

Strangely it tends to be worst on damp days or hot and humid days.

From cold car drives fine but once at operating temperature it only takes around 10 mins of hard driving to get oil temp to 130c and then it tends to lose power shortly after unless I back right off for 10-15 mins..........which is kind of really annoying in a car that is meant to be built for spirited driving.

For instance I can drive my bmw hard constantly with no power loss.

maybe 430 bhp in the skyline makes these problems different to just 230 bhp in the bmw though.

If I disconnected the maf sensors would it run better as always stay in cold start cycle or would it ruin everything?

Thanks for the reply anyhow.:flame:


----------



## JamesB (Apr 8, 2009)

130c oil temp is pretty high: do you have an oil cooler? What about a bigger coolant radiator? My R33 suffers from bad heat soak, but only after parking up then restarting after a short period - never on the open road. 

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk


----------



## THEGTRMORTGAGE (Apr 7, 2016)

*heat soak?*

Hi James B

No I don't have an oil cooler, but do have a larger racing spec radiator with twin cores so should be sufficient plus the largest possible intercooler for the space (Blitz) - I have since added additional cold air feed pipe up to the face of air pods - which has lowered the temp by 5-10c.
However it will still reach nearly 140c if driven hard for 25 mins straight.

I noticed on visiting the Silverstone skyline festival that many rb26dett engines on the r33 had full additional cold air feeds and custom fitted heat shields - that sectioned off engine block and air filters completely.

Further more some had relocated the lower orange indicators to the inner bumper and removed the black vented surrounds completely to let more cold air in - so it must be an issue for such extremes.

I run 10w 60 Mobil 1 oil as it can take such temperatures - however the engine may still not be keen on such heat itself.

Plus 10w 60 is expensive and not fuel efficient at warm up and takes a little more power away to pump it through due to its velocity but worth such downsides to keep engine protected.

(I also think the power loss may be fuel pump related as thinking about it, it seems to happen only below quarter of tank........ will have to test this theory.........maybe even due to water being towards bottom of tank in a 21 year old car and fuel quality mixture decrease is picked up by ecu and power cut automatically by engine management system)

or maybe car just runs lean when at this temperature and hence power loss.

The cat convertor light on dash always lights up when power loss is occurring too - however car has no catalytic converter full stop so doesn't make sense??


Could be so many things - process of elimination ......:runaway:


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

You will probably do engine damage soon if not already, by running your engine hard with oil at 140 Deg C (Assuming your gauges read correctly). Well before it gets to that level of temp, you should be doing cool-down laps if on a circuit.


----------



## THEGTRMORTGAGE (Apr 7, 2016)

Hi,

The Nissan oil temp standard gauge - has 80 c range from 70c - 150c

so 50% would be 110c - so in theory optimum temp for this engine as a guide.

140c is the end of the higher range but not in the danger zone yet but literally on the gauge edge.

the 150c is separate and would indicate an damage issue if entered.
on most cars this would be red - however Nissan standard gauges are not exactly clear with this but from the segmentation it shows 140c as a maximum anything above would cause damage from the gauge aspect at least.


So for me when I reach 135c I don't carry on and this still sometimes reaches 140c as it slightly delays the reading as heat isn't quite start stop as you would like.

I don't carry on at 140c as not mental - but it is annoying how quickly it tends to get there - without even being on a track under full racing loads.
pretty poor - hence why I've ordered heat shields, added cold air intake pipes and even removed under bonnet installation/sound proofing.

the combination of things will hopefully replicate adding a oil cooler or will help anyway.:flame:


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Get an accurate oil temp gauge and the best oil cooler you can.


----------



## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Oil temperature and induction temperature are not really direcctly related . For decent oil temps you need a decent oil cooler and an extended sump or similar will increase the oil capacity which helps quite a bit
obviously a decent water system will help as well
induction temps are different - a decent intercooler set up and if possible helped by keeping the heat away from the air fitters.


----------



## THEGTRMORTGAGE (Apr 7, 2016)

I have now heat deflected the engine bay and air filters and introduced a cold air intake pipe and also removed the grill part of indicators so more air can flow through intake - this has directly reduced the oil temps by 8-12 Celsius to what they reached before..keeping me out of the danger zone just.

I agree an oil cooler will help further by about another 10 Celsius, but to be honest it is a shame such measure is required on a gtr when it is built to be driven hard and shouldn't require additional work to get it to cope...kinda annoying really....plus if oil cooler too big or not located properly it can starve flow to critical areas under certain conditions creating additional issues by default.

Thanks for your replies.


----------



## THEGTRMORTGAGE (Apr 7, 2016)

I have the biggest blitz intercooler that can fit in the space also - so can't improve on that without front mounting one or cutting holes in bonnet lol


----------

