# Building RB26 1000HP...>>>>>>>



## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

*Building very high response RB26 ever ...>>>>>>>*



Hello everyone, long time I havn't entered the forum. I have been thinking 

for long time about the best way to build high response RB26 . Today I want every 

one to tell me the best way in your opinions to build this much of response. 

I want to organize your comments before we start putting any answer. 

Note: everyone has his own opinion, so just put what you know from your 

experience with out saying ( It Depends on your goal) Because I got sick of this word:chairshot. 

Just right what you know from your experience. 

1- Head part + ported and polished head (if necessary) 

2- Block parts + ported and polished block (if necessay) 

3- Single turbo or Twin turbo ( Again, just your opinion)

any any extra additions


you can give an example about RB26 with high resonce ( acceleration) from garages or somewhere else if you want. 

Finally, this project is not for drag race. the purpose of building this RB26 is 

to get very very very high response and acceleration. 

Eager to see your replies.

Thanks.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

RB26 + 1000hp + very very very high response and acceleration = Not going to happen!

You can two of the three things, but not all three.

Too small an engine for that much horsepower with "very very very high response and acceleration"


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

Budget 200K and you might get something remotely close LOL


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

If you can afford to consider something like this, imho:

1) VR38 heads
2) VR38 block
3) Twin turbos

Extras include R35 GTR...


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## Infomotive (Oct 22, 2009)

Easy. Decent bottom end, low compression and to4z and 500 hit of nos.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I forgot about NOS, not very practical though.

How about, Built bottom end, 500hp hit of NOS, Twin Screw SuperCharger, BW EFR 9180 turbo.....

.....and a magician to build it and tune it!


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## 8ren (Apr 17, 2008)

Biggest one we have done so far is 945. 
Revs like a bike if thats what you mean by response but doesnt start making BIG numbers (ie over 500hp) until over 5000 rpm. Having said that, keep it between 5 & 9000 and you will think someone has shoved the space shuttle up you backside LOL. Making 200 hp in the 3000's so not slow. Just feels that way when you know whats coming. 
In my opinion and experience if you want much more than that from it then the engine is too small as people have said.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

You could approach it the Colin Chapman way and add "lightness". A 500hp engine in a car weighing half the amount will achieve the same goal and be more reliable. A spaceframe car with super light panels is the way to go.


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## B16JUS (Oct 17, 2011)

Best / easiest / cheapest / quickest way would be to buy one already done or at least nearly done lol


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## zell (Nov 23, 2007)

If there's any way of making it responsive it would need to be RB30, or a stroked RB30  3.4l JZ's are responsive even with 1000 hp on tap.

Also, with respone in mind this could help with it:
Sound Performance – Blog Blog Archive Sound Performance Quick Spool Valve testing and results!!!
It works ! 

With NOS, E85 (for 1000bhp), methanol injection and a right set for headwork this could be quite responsive.


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

Sub Boy said:


> RB26 + 1000hp + very very very high response and acceleration = Not going to happen!
> 
> You can two of the three things, but not all three.
> 
> Too small an engine for that much horsepower with "very very very high response and acceleration"


Thanks man, 

see, high response means high acceleration. they are not separate. 

Also 1000HP is my dream project. I know it's difficult to have 1000HP with 

high response, but it could be with smart project. 

but it's not as much as I 

want more acceleration as I said.


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

infamous_t said:


> Budget 200K and you might get something remotely close LOL


I would spend more than that to my lovely GTR r34.


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## g.alund (May 4, 2007)

I think you have missunderstood something here...there is no need for a 1000hp in a RB engine UNLESS you drag it. Have you ever been in a sorted 600hp+ Skyline car around a racetrack? Even the most sorted timeattack cars dont run a 1000hp, not because they cant, just because it makes no sense to run that power (with mega lag). So with all respect, forget what you are doing now, and build a decent 1000hp drag car, or a 600-700hp track car. You cant have the cake and eat it...


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Its not that hard to build a 1000bhp 26 engine if you use the right bits.


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## rockabilly (Oct 15, 2003)

or you could drop to 750bhp and buy mine for 18k.


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

infamous_t said:


> Budget 200K and you might get something remotely close LOL





to build a 1000bhp rb26 would cost around 15k, with the fuel system and decent box probally another 5-8k on top of that. and im confident you could get a rb26 spooling well enough on a gt42.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Its not that hard to build a 1000bhp 26 engine if you use the right bits.


Award for stating the obvious goes to...... lol


Also, its not that expensive if you have lots of spare money :thumbsup:


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Its not that hard to build a 1000bhp 26 engine if you use the right bits.



exactly what i thought.


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> Award for stating the obvious goes to...... lol
> 
> 
> Also, its not that expensive if you have lots of spare money :thumbsup:



its not obvious is it....
or every one would do it, but instead most people and tuners recommend/use stroker kits because thats what there told to do, imo you can get a rb26 spooling as soon as a 2.8 or maybe a 3.0.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Ok so if I were to write, "use the wrong bits and its hard", is that not stating the obvious also?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

nailsgtr600 said:


> its not obvious is it....
> or every one would do it, but instead most people and tuners recommend/use stroker kits because thats what there told to do, imo you can get a rb26 spooling as soon as a 2.8 or maybe a 3.0.


And yeah you can, but then again if you used those same methods in the 2.8's and 3.0's then surely you'd get even better results?

Remember the old adage, there is no replacement for displacement :thumbsup:


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> Ok so if I were to write, "use the wrong bits and its hard", is that not stating the obvious also?



it is but im sure andy didnt mean it like that....

for example do your list for stating the obvious

[email protected] do yours...

then we'll see what obvious is....:thumbsup:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Forged pistons
The biggest turbo I can find with fueling to match

1000 horsepower, simple


Totally undrivable but simple nonetheless


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> And yeah you can, but then again if you used those same methods in the 2.8's and 3.0's then surely you'd get even better results?
> 
> Remember the old adage, there is no replacement for displacement :thumbsup:


cause you would, but most just go for the displacement and think thats the answer for torque and early spool, its not the case, i think with a really well worked head with the right cams the exh manifold and inlet manifold to match you could get the same results with a built 2.6. (early spool & torque)


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

nailsgtr600 said:


> cause you would, but most just go for the displacement and think thats the answer for torque and early spool, its not the case, i think with a really well worked head with the right cams the exh manifold and inlet manifold to match you could get the same results with a built 2.6. (early spool & torque)


What potentially has more power a 600cc bike or 1000cc??


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> What potentially has more power a 600cc bike or 1000cc??




i agree with what your saying about displacement etc... but this is about a rb26.


f1 engines back in the day made 1500bhp from 1.5 engines. you can make the power (1000bhp) and decent torque from a 2.6 and it would still be as driveable as a 3.0 making a 1000bhp if done correctly.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Not saying u can't just saying its easier


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

Lith said:


> If you can afford to consider something like this, imho:
> 
> 1) VR38 heads
> 2) VR38 block
> ...


That's good idea. I have seen many products like that. but I would like to 

buils RB26 engine not the new generation.


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## arnout (Oct 29, 2003)

you can but a GT42r or GT47r on the block and have some help with a nice supercharger. Excellent drivability and 1000HP possible!


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## 8ren (Apr 17, 2008)

g.alund said:


> I think you have missunderstood something here...there is no need for a 1000hp in a RB engine UNLESS you drag it. Have you ever been in a sorted 600hp+ Skyline car around a racetrack? Even the most sorted timeattack cars dont run a 1000hp, not because they cant, just because it makes no sense to run that power (with mega lag). So with all respect, forget what you are doing now, and build a decent 1000hp drag car, or a 600-700hp track car. You cant have the cake and eat it...


I know exactly what you are saying but not always the case. 
Fastest Skyline in UK TimeAttack this year (2nd in Pro Class for the season) currently runs 945 bhp.



[email protected] said:


> Its not that hard to build a 1000bhp 26 engine if you use the right bits.


You are absolutely right Andy, but in my opinion harder to also make it a good drivable circuit car (although a chunk of that is down to the mapper).


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Mike the power is in the head and not in the block.


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> Forged pistons
> The biggest turbo I can find with fueling to match
> 
> 1000 horsepower, simple
> ...



wouldnt work, the standard rb26 head wont flow the air/gases, and temps would go through the roof.


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## 8ren (Apr 17, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Mike the power is in the head and not in the block.


:thumbsup: 
Power is made at the top. Just make the bottom strong enough to deal with it.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

come on mr rips come and defend your RB30 LOL


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> come on mr rips come and defend your RB30 LOL


this is easy for Mr RIPS, rb30 rb30 rb30 rb30.... :flame::flame::flame::flame:


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

1000hp is relatively easy enough. gt42r + goodies. 

but rb30`s will not last as a race car. maybe a light use track car sure.

2.8 is the only way, for response & reliability - proven time & again.

what is your goal????


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## Skyline_500R (Sep 23, 2004)

arnout said:


> you can but a GT42r or GT47r on the block and have some help with a nice supercharger. Excellent drivability and 1000HP possible!


Hey Arnout, don't spoil the fun by telling everything hey.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I think everyone is missing the point here.....

the original question was:
RB26, 1000HP, not for drag race. the purpose of building this RB26 is

to get very very very high response and acceleration. 

With 2.6lt + 1000hp you are not going to get what I would regard as "very very very high response and acceleration"

A dude with 600hp from a set of -5's will blow you away 90% of the time anywhere!

....Read the OP again.....


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

To be honest to get very very very high response and acceleration will be hard with an RB26 even a drilled out one.
I would think you would most likely only end up with very very high response and acceleration or very high response and acceleration 
Im sure that extra "very" will be nearly impossible to find

I could be wrong though....

Maybe a 750 hp shot of nos ?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Glen you could be wrong.


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## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

nick the tubman said:


> 1000hp is relatively easy enough. gt42r + goodies.
> 
> but rb30`s will not last as a race car. maybe a light use track car sure.
> 
> ...




I would love to know why you think a Rb30 wont last in a racecar?

Diden rob build a rb30 for a driftcar at a point? thats gotta be the most stressfull trackcar revline 90 % of the time?

Ron


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Agree with all that has been said before about getting response with big power.

Capacity helps, so 3 litre is going to be easier to get 1000 BHP from.

Clearly the whole set-up has to be matched from compression ratio to cams to port size, to combustion chamber shape and turbo(s) that have a small enough turbine housing to give good spool yet flow enough to deliver big power.

Yup it's not the most difficult thing to build a high power engine, but getting it all to work in harmony ............

OH and then you need to make it reliable.

Here is a picture of one version of what you might end up with.

OH and "nick the tubman" that is a 3 litre below that has been tracked and run at TOTB many times, driven as a daily driver for many years, so it can be done.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

nick the tubman said:


> 1000hp is relatively easy enough. gt42r + goodies.
> 
> but rb30`s will not last as a race car. maybe a light use track car sure.
> 
> ...


Even though the OP question is RB26.....:chairshot

That's rubbish, There is plenty of RB30 racecars in NZ that have done multiple seasons without engine rebuilds, Maybe it can't be done in the UK?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Maybe we like something that revs.


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Sub Boy said:


> Even though the OP question is RB26.....:chairshot
> 
> That's rubbish, There is plenty of RB30 racecars in NZ that have done multiple seasons without engine rebuilds, Maybe it can't be done in the UK?


Now we know why hes not known as nick the engineman :chuckle:


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

If you really want throttle response twincharge it.

The weak link is always the gearbox in an RB-R.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

i think if you fit a loud exhaust, a air filter, some dodgy stickers, flamer kit, Neon lights, wear a track suit and a cap sideways then the donor car that the engine is going in will automatically end up with 1000bhp. 

Think thats how it works as there are plenty of 1000bhp cars i hear about around my way. 

:blahblah:


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

1000bhp genuine and be reliable I wonder. 

the trouble with that amount of BHP is the big end bearings aren't big enough to with stand the load for a long period.

You need big bearing clearance's and then a big oil pump to cope with the clearances.

The top end, yes a good ported head will help, with a well thought out squish design. The right size turbo, but 1 thing is a RB will never make a 1000 bhp on pump fuel, maybe E85 ( this isnt sold at the pump in the UK any more) you need a good quality race fuel.

They dont last at this sort of BHP , they wont be usable for a road car. Responsive yes if your over 5000rpm+

stick to 700bhp and I am sure you be happy spend the money on a good gearbox instead of trying to find the other 300+ bhp it will make the car more fun.

We been there done it the 1000bhp+ RB


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

8ren said:


> Biggest one we have done so far is 945.
> Revs like a bike if thats what you mean by response but doesnt start making BIG numbers (ie over 500hp) until over 5000 rpm. Having said that, keep it between 5 & 9000 and you will think someone has shoved the space shuttle up you backside LOL. Making 200 hp in the 3000's so not slow. Just feels that way when you know whats coming.
> In my opinion and experience if you want much more than that from it then the engine is too small as people have said.


That's what I ment. the main thing of my projet is to make high response 

( acceleration)


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

well those 30`s must be something special then... cause the ones i have known have all gone pop;. 

maybe its because they were using the diesel block from the 4x4 ??? and that was the weak link?
which 30 block are you talking about then thats so mighty?


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

Sub Boy said:


> Even though the OP question is RB26.....:chairshot
> 
> 
> i know that nobby... but there was debate on other sizes. i was putting an opinion forward - its a forum!


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

g.alund said:


> I think you have missunderstood something here...there is no need for a 1000hp in a RB engine UNLESS you drag it. Have you ever been in a sorted 600hp+ Skyline car around a racetrack? Even the most sorted timeattack cars dont run a 1000hp, not because they cant, just because it makes no sense to run that power (with mega lag). So with all respect, forget what you are doing now, and build a decent 1000hp drag car, or a 600-700hp track car. You cant have the cake and eat it...


I got you. Actually high response is more important for me than HP, I just 

changed the name of the topic to high response. give me you opinion.


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

Mines R34 ultimate response. find out the exact spec of that car and bingo!

Mines R34 Skyline - The Ultimate Response Machine - YouTube


argument/debate over.........


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

troll thread?

i agree with OP, for a very very very very very very v e r y high something its best to port and polish the block


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

Sub Boy said:


> I think everyone is missing the point here.....
> 
> the original question was:
> RB26, 1000HP, not for drag race. the purpose of building this RB26 is
> ...



That is what I ment. I have changed my mind. I need just to focus on the response . Just the response ( acceleration) 

Guys, don't argue each other, just write good stuff to build responsive RB26.


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

GT-R Glenn said:


> To be honest to get very very very high response and acceleration will be hard with an RB26 even a drilled out one.
> I would think you would most likely only end up with very very high response and acceleration or very high response and acceleration
> Im sure that extra "very" will be nearly impossible to find
> 
> ...


Come on man, just write what you think about this project. What is best performance stuff to build responsive ( acceleration) RB26 engine.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe we like something that revs.


9000rpm not good enough?:nervous:

Personally in a Road car/Track car I would rather have the extra torque than anything more than 9000rpm.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

koria said:


> That is what I ment. I have changed my mind. I need just to focus on the response . Just the response ( acceleration)
> 
> Guys, don't argue each other, just write good stuff to build responsive RB26.


So no longer need 1000hp? just response?


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

Hugh Keir said:


> Agree with all that has been said before about getting response with big power.
> 
> Capacity helps, so 3 litre is going to be easier to get 1000 BHP from.
> 
> ...


I don't know why a lot of people say you can not build high HP with high responce(acceleration) they say you have to choose one of them. tell me what do you think and give me a prove about that.


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

lightspeed said:


> If you really want throttle response twincharge it.
> 
> The weak link is always the gearbox in an RB-R.


Give more details about 

cylinder head & block


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

mattysupra said:


> i think if you fit a loud exhaust, a air filter, some dodgy stickers, flamer kit, Neon lights, wear a track suit and a cap sideways then the donor car that the engine is going in will automatically end up with 1000bhp.
> 
> Think thats how it works as there are plenty of 1000bhp cars i hear about around my way.
> 
> :blahblah:


Give detail about the project 

Cylinder head + block + twin or single


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

nick the tubman said:


> well those 30`s must be something special then... cause the ones i have known have all gone pop;.
> 
> maybe its because they were using the diesel block from the 4x4 ??? and that was the weak link?
> which 30 block are you talking about then thats so mighty?


The diesel block is an RD28, Different block.

Check out all the RB30's that RIPS and many others have built with no issues from using a std RB30 block.

My engine builder runs a RB30 in a GT-R here in NZ and has done 3 seasons of racing (I think about 8 races a season) without an engine issue. It makes about 650hp and revs to 9k

It's been proven the block is not the problem soo many times.


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

Abbey M/S said:


> 1000bhp genuine and be reliable I wonder.
> 
> the trouble with that amount of BHP is the big end bearings aren't big enough to with stand the load for a long period.
> 
> ...





I liked your answer, just tell one thing. is it true that I can build my engine 

with high HP and high response ( acceleration) or can only choose one of 

them. If so, I would go with high response . What do you think. give me more detail about performance stuff for the head+ Block + twin or single . 

Thanks.


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

Sub Boy said:


> So no longer need 1000hp? just response?


I want both, but I'm not sure if i can make both of them. 

If I can't I will go with response. What you think? give me good performance 

stuff to do my project


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

KORIA, 

What the quickest car you have owned/driven? what sort of power was it making? how heavy was it? 

Would you of classed it as quick ?


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

I fell asleep reading this thread
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yawn ...
Why dont you just spend half an hour reading the last nine billion threads on building engines ? + all the old and boring arguments about rb26 27 28 vs Rb30.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Showing results 26 to 50 of 200 
Search took 1.00 seconds.


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## Chocko (Sep 7, 2011)

mattysupra said:


> i think if you fit a loud exhaust, a air filter, some dodgy stickers, flamer kit, Neon lights, wear a track suit and a cap sideways then the donor car that the engine is going in will automatically end up with 1000bhp.
> 
> Think thats how it works as there are plenty of 1000bhp cars i hear about around my way.
> 
> :blahblah:





koria said:


> Give detail about the project
> 
> Cylinder head + block + twin or single


I can't even tell if this is a serious question.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Koria its easy, well built RB30, TO4z, can have plenty of boost and response by 3000rpm, 250 of NOS, 1000hp by 8000rpm on pump gas, job done.


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## 8ren (Apr 17, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Koria its easy, well built RB30, TO4z, can have plenty of boost and response by 3000rpm, 250 of NOS, 1000hp by 8000rpm on pump gas, job done.


That answers one question for me and raises two new ones.

One of my main concerns about RB30's is the lack of oil sprays to cool the pistons. Running that size shot of NOS may well cool things down a bit.

A GENUINE 750hp through a TO4Z on pump fuel ?

Surely to last a race your NOS bottle would have to be the size of the moon ?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Showing results 26 to 50 of 200
> Search took 1.00 seconds.


Glenn,

Where's that little search .gif you normally use? I wanted to use it the other day but couldn't find it.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/157584-600-hp-bnr32-worth-upgrading-getrag-6-speed-gearbox.html


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Koria its easy, well built RB30, TO4z, can have plenty of boost and response by 3000rpm, 250 of NOS, 1000hp by 8000rpm on pump gas, job done.



he wants to do it with a rb26 rob, forget your rb30's for a min :thumbsup: 


you should of said something like this..
Koria its easy, well built RB26, TO4z, can have plenty of boost and response by 3000rpm, 250 of NOS, 1000hp by 9000rpm on pump gas, job done.[/QUOTE]


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

Abbey M/S said:


> 1000bhp genuine and be reliable I wonder.
> 
> the trouble with that amount of BHP is the big end bearings aren't big enough to with stand the load for a long period.
> 
> ...


just out of interest mark, have you got any dyno graphs for a highly strung rb26 with specs... cheers mate. :thumbsup:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Stop feeding the troll


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

This forum has turned to shit. 90% of the people posting on here I wouldn't let change the oil in a lawn mower.
So much miss information and bullshit.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

nailsgtr600 said:


> just out of interest mark, have you got any dyno graphs for a highly strung rb26 with specs... cheers mate. :thumbsup:


We have only built and tuned 1 big BHP Rb26 in the last few years , I will ask the customer if I can use dyno plots on here 1st. This car was running a T51SPL on race fuel and produced 800bhp @ the hub at 2.1 bar boost, full boost @ 5000rpm around 550lb/ft of torque max and 520lb/ft from 5000rpm to 7000rpm.

Most of our bigish BHP RB are 2.8 thou. The most BHP we have seen on a RB28 running race fuel was JB drag motor was around 1100 hub bhp on the T62 HKS turbo with a 1.2 exhaust housing..

The drag motor had the big ends checked after every 6 drag runS and a full motor strip after 12/15 runs. The need a lot of servicing at big BHP ( over 1000bhp)


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe we like something that revs.


Hi Andy,

Not sure that I agree with your sentiment that 3 litre engines don't like to rev.

Here is a video from inside my full weight road car that shows how willing a big power 3 litre is to rev. It was taken a few years ago now, but stilll makes the point.

The video is taken with the car running on pump fuel.

3 litre Acceleration demo


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## arnout (Oct 29, 2003)

rb30r34 said:


> I wouldn't let change the oil in a lawn mower.


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Hugh Keir said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Not sure that I agree with your sentiment that 3 litre engines don't like to rev.
> 
> ...


AMAZING!!!


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

rb30r34 said:


> This forum has turned to shit. 90% of the people posting on here I wouldn't let change the oil in a lawn mower.
> So much miss information and bullshit.


lol nice statement!


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

The majority of tuners will use off the shelf parts to achieve there goal and not look at developing anything new, after all who would want a 1000BHP when the exhaust side of the head flows very poor for a turbo engine.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Andy trouble is development costs money so who pays for the development costs , the tuner if so will he see a return on the development costs? 

If the customer wants to foot the development cost for a idea, will he want to pay the costs if it doesnt give the returns he wanted or was promised by the tuner?

I understand you doing good work on cylinder head design/flow. Even a stock VQ cylinder head flows far better than a good tweaked RB head.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

nailsgtr600 said:


> if you could get the dyno that would be great mark. :thumbsup: at the end of the day some people are devoted enough to study and develop new things for the rb26 head over a long period of time, which means in this day and age we should be able to make the 2.6 as powerful and reliable as say a 2.8 or 3.0, and not need stroker kits or 3.0s to get massive torque and power, your right mark the development does cost money, but in the end it will be beneficial to you and your customers imo!


You're saying the power is all in the head work.

So surely using a 2.8 or a 3.0 in the bottom end would only free up even more power in the head work.

Once again, I am not saying that a 2.6 can't make good power (its proven that it has) I am simply saying that with all things equal, the larger engines will make more power everytime


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

How have I managed to quote a post that was posted 3 minutes after mine lol


----------



## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

Abbey M/S said:


> Andy trouble is development costs money so who pays for the development costs , the tuner if so will he see a return on the development costs?
> 
> If the customer wants to foot the development cost for a idea, will he want to pay the costs if it doesnt give the returns he wanted or was promised by the tuner?
> 
> I understand you doing good work on cylinder head design/flow. Even a stock VQ cylinder head flows far better than a good tweaked RB head.



if you could get the dyno that would be great mark. :thumbsup:

at the end of the day some people are devoted enough to study and develop new things for the rb26 head over a long period of time, which means in this day and age we should be able to make the 2.6 as powerful and reliable as say a 2.8 or 3.0, and not need stroker kits or 3.0s to get massive torque and power, your right mark the development does cost money, but in the end it will be beneficial to you and your customers imo!


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Mike the cylinder head plays the major role on any engine.


I'm obviously not making my point very well here.

the 2.6, the 2.8 and the 3.0 all share the same RB head, so surely any advancement in the efficiency of the head used on the 2.6 would surely be equal, if not greater, on the larger cc engines


----------



## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Mike the cylinder head plays the major role on any engine.


----------



## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

^^ mike how the hell did you do that?!


----------



## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

little 2.0 litre four pot evos make more torque than 2.6 rb's so how does that work?! its all down to the head and how they flow...


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

nailsgtr600 said:


> little 2.0 litre four pot evos make more torque than 2.6 rb's so how does that work?! its all down to the head and how they flow...


And a diesel tourag makes more than both, what's your point?


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Because the bigger the displacement, the bigger you know what is! 

Fact! 

Is it pub time yet??


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

nailsgtr600 said:


> he wants to do it with a rb26 rob
> you should of said something like this..Koria its easy, well built RB26, TO4z, can have plenty of boost and response by 3000rpm


Show me one that has 15psi of boost by 3000rpm and goes on to make 750-800hp on normal 98 pump gas, no NOS.

Rob


----------



## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Were not showing you nothing rob because you will nick are ideas


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Were not showing you nothing rob because you will nick are ideas


:clap::clap::clap:Classic, I nearly fell off my chair laughing :clap::clap:

Your not showing anything because you have nothing to show


----------



## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> :clap::clap::clap:Classic, I nearly fell off my chair laughing :clap::clap:
> 
> Your not showing anything because you have nothing to show


Just out of interest, what's been done to the borgs head, or ludders head, there's plenty to show rob :blahblah: 


Have you ever built a high powered 2.6?? Or is that a silly question??? 

And do you think it can be done? 15psi by 3000rpm 750-800bhp on pump gas on a 2.6??!!


----------



## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

mattysupra said:


> KORIA,
> 
> What the quickest car you have owned/driven? what sort of power was it making? how heavy was it?
> 
> Would you of classed it as quick ?


I had r33 with RB25 around 300HP. It wasn't that fast. I need you to tell me 

good plan to do my project. As I said, I want high response. don't tell me it 

depends. just write what you know from you experience.


----------



## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

GT-R Glenn said:


> I fell asleep reading this thread
> ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> Yawn ...
> Why dont you just spend half an hour reading the last nine billion threads on building engines ? + all the old and boring arguments about rb26 27 28 vs Rb30.


I think you have not read the thread. I have said that I don't want argument. 

I only need a good plan to do my project. As I said, high response. 

you can give more details about building the ( head + block + twin or single) 

that's it.


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

nailsgtr600 said:


> ^^ mike how the hell did you do that?!


All time sync errors have now been fixed so shouldn't show up anymore. I had a few earlier. Weird.


----------



## danc (Feb 28, 2005)

koria said:


> I had r33 with RB25 around 300HP. It wasn't that fast. I need you to tell me
> 
> good plan to do my project. As I said, I want high response. don't tell me it
> 
> depends. just write what you know from you experience.


 
What are expecting to spend?

Why no go double the last car bhp for now then upgrade as you go..
or maybe something like this spec>>>>

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/157046-9sec-drag-street-car.html


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

koria said:


> I had r33 with RB25 around 300HP. It wasn't that fast. I need you to tell me
> 
> good plan to do my project. As I said, I want high response. don't tell me it
> 
> depends. just write what you know from you experience.



So you want to go from 300 bhp R33 (most powerfull car owned and driven) to 1000 BHP !!!! 

I dont think you understand the size of that jump! 

Pro Drag drivers that have been driving for years and progressed in 50 bhp jumps struggle to keep that much power going in a straight line. Let alone around a track. 


I think you will be more than blown away with 500bhp & 500 ibft Torque from a Rb26 running a set of twin 25/30 turbos, mild cams and a set of rods and pistons with teh obvious ecu and fuel upgrades. 

Should set you back around £6000 + i guess depending on the spec of the bits you use. 

Still should see low 11 quarter mile with full trim on road tyres with around 160+ mph on a 1000meter sprint. 

Response will be spot on also.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

mattysupra said:


> So you want to go from 300 bhp R33 (most powerfull car owned and driven) to 1000 BHP !!!!
> 
> I dont think you understand the size of that jump
> 
> I think you will be more than blown away with 500bhp & 500 ibft Torque from a Rb26


1000bhp sounds better than 500bhp at the pub:thumbsup:


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

nailsgtr600 said:


> he wants to do it with a rb26 rob, forget your rb30's for a min :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> you should of said something like this..
> Koria its easy, well built RB26, TO4z, can have plenty of boost and response by 3000rpm, 250 of NOS, 1000hp by 9000rpm on pump gas, job done.


[/QUOTE]

Finally, I got one answer of what I want. guys I want answers like that. 

you can give me some details about some work in cylinder head like ( porting & polishing if necessary) camshaft, injectors....

in the block( porting and polishing+ stroker kit ... 

you can also give me name of sport gear for improve my transmission.


----------



## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

my ultimate advice will be..

If you have to ask thease quistions, your not up for the job of building a 1000 Bhp engine
and im not speaking of supra horses, im talking geniue bhp..

grab the phone for a company thats know to build cars with thease number, ask for the quote, then hang up, and return at dreaming..

Ron


----------



## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

mattysupra said:


> So you want to go from 300 bhp R33 (most powerfull car owned and driven) to 1000 BHP !!!!
> 
> I dont think you understand the size of that jump!
> 
> ...



forget 1000HP now, I have changed my plan before and I mentioned that before. I said I need more response. very high response. what I need now is just advice from you about the tuning parts that I will install them in my project

just tell me the goodies that I need to use in your opinion. ( Block,head, twin or single) 

I don't want see the word it (depends) . I have money and I can buy all the stuff for this project. 

waiting you ....


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Do us all a favour and do a search. This was amusing to begin with but now it's.............................


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## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Do us all a favour and do a search. This was amusing to begin with but now it's.............................


Guys I don't want anyone to get out of the topic, why you started talking about another RBs, 26, 28, 30. 

I need only advice for the goodies that I need to buy to build my RB26

That's it. Again, I don't want to hear the word it depends. just write performance stuff to start this project. 

( Block, cylinder head, twin or single turbo, sport gear )


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

OK everyone, you heard the man. Koria, my advice is still the same, do a search.


----------



## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

Try and type this guy a PM

GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum - View Profile: GT-R Glenn

Im sure he will be glad to help you out in this stage.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Tell you what, here is what is in mine if you want a shopping list for a engine that has really good response, 600 Wheel BHP and runs on 95 ron pump fuel. 

Your shopping list that i think you are asking for=

O and this is a 2.8. Still using the RB26 block and head tho. 

HKS Step 1 Cam's
HKS 1.2 mm Head Gasket
Full Tomie / HKS Gasket set.
Bore / Honed Decked Block
Cosworth Race 2.8 Pistons.
PEC H-Beam Rods
Farndom 2.8 Billet Custom Spec 3 V-conditioned crank
ACL Race Bearings
ARP studs / bolts
Modified oil squirters
Tomie Sump Baffles / Gate system
N1 Oil Pump
N1 Water Pump
N1 Thermostat
Tomie Veneer Pulleys / HKS High Power timing belt
Nismo Inlet Plenum 
Apexi B60 Twin low mount Turbos
Nismo Turbo elbows
Nismo down pipe
Kakimoto Exhaust (cat back)
Japspeed Silenced decat
Full braided lines to oil + water
Nismo full hard pipe kit to turbos with twin HKS blow of valves
Nismo Catch tank with sump return.
2nd catch tank with integrated Washer bottle
Carbon Triple Plate Clutch
Ross Tech Harmonic damper
Sard Injectors
2 LTR custom Surge tank
Full Braided lines to fuel system
In tank Nismo Fuel Pump
External Bosch 044 Fuel Pump
Nismo Fuel Pressure regulator
Alloy Water Radiator
Nismo Intercooler
Nismo Oil Cooler + braided lines
Over ride electric fans.
HKS FCON PRO 3.2 Piggy back ECU
HKS Knock Amp
HKS A/F display with direct feedback to ECU
HKS Launch Control / Power Builder
Gizmo Boost Controller with 6 pre set power levels



That list will get you a reliable engine making 600bhp and should stay together on teh track due to supporting mods. The engine itself is capable of a lot more on better fuel so a simple map change. 

Or bigger turbos / cams and you can push it all the way to 1000bhp if you would like.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

RonniNielsen said:


> Try and type this guy a PM
> 
> GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum - View Profile: GT-R Glenn
> 
> Im sure he will be glad to help you out in this stage.




Agreed, PM him direct any questions you want. He is very helpfull at searching :thumbsup:


----------



## .::TopSky::. (Nov 4, 2010)

Block, doesent matter wich block you run. Just use a fully prepped block by a pro engine builder.

Head, run a fully built head polished, modifed chambers (many ways to do this depends on your engine builder), maybe some new oversized valves, retainers, valve springs, guides, lifters etc

Internals, depends on your budget but I`d run a Tomei 2.8l kit, the most basic one.

Singel turbo is not a choice if you want response, just low mount TTs. What turbo you will choose is up to you beacuse you can ask one million experts and get one million different answers. The most common would probably be 2530s.

Not sure what you mean with sport gear.

The most important thing will be supporting mods, I assume that you know what supporting mods are since you are a GTR owner.

At last it all comes down to mapping.

This thread seems a bit wierd and foolish, I agree with the others please search.

Dont expect a responsive engine with 650hp+ its not easy dont think you can build a Mine`s machine in one night with a couple of grand. Dont even think about 1000hp, you are simply not the right guy.


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## Chocko (Sep 7, 2011)

RonniNielsen said:


> my ultimate advice will be..
> 
> If you have to ask thease quistions, your not up for the job of building a 1000 Bhp engine
> and im not speaking of supra horses, im talking geniue bhp..
> ...


+1

This is the only valid advice for you and you have chosen to ignore it and even reply to a post telling you to add neon lights, crazy graphics and a loud exhaust.

Take it to someone who knows what they are doing. Don't say anything stupid to them and maybe when you hand over your $200k they would have actually done something other than just painting the valve covers, giving back the car and telling you it is now 1000hp and very very very responsive.


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## Glen (Jan 21, 2011)

Just search Mines R34 on youtube... is that the response you are wanting? hks2530s..That thing is bloody quick.


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## .::TopSky::. (Nov 4, 2010)

I bet the first post is edited 1000 times. You can build a 1000bhp engine (excluding sunspension, body parts, interior, chassis, brakes) with about 20 000 USD and you can also build an engine with alot less then that but 20 000 USD is the minimum amount of money I`d spend just beacuse I like to use quality parts.

I dont want to know how much I`ve spent on my car but I can say that I spent almost 23 000 USD and when I was building I studied 7 days a week and I worked 6 days a week. My goal was reliable and balanced 700hp I ended up with almost 750hp but never near 1000hp, but of course thats the dream.

And remember my car came with a HKS 2.8l stroker and some other parts, if I count with those parts I`ll end up with almost 30 000 USD.


----------



## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

Abbey M/S said:


> The drag motor had the big ends checked after every 6 drag runS and a full motor strip after 12/15 runs. The need a lot of servicing at big BHP ( over 1000bhp)


I just want to confirm that by runs you mean passes? So every 6 passes you replace bearings and every 12-15 passes you refreshen the motor entirely? I ask because it's entirely possible to make that many passes in a single event how did that get done? Also was this out of extreme precaution or because after 6 passes the bearings needed to be replaced and after 12 the whole motor reworked?


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

.::TopSky::. said:


> And remember my car came with a HKS 2.8l stroker and some other parts, if I count with those parts I`ll end up with almost 30 000 USD.


I agree, you are correct, to start with nothing and end up with a fully buillt complete 1000hp RB (the bigger the capacity the easier and more reliable it gets) is EASILY usd30,000 and more like usd40,000 if you add new custom parts and show quality finish through out.

Once you have your 1000hp engine, then what? You need another big bucket of money to get everything else you need to get it in the car and running/tuned correctly.

A reliable 1000hp GTR is easy enough to do, its just not cheap.

Rob


----------



## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

Extreme caution 
No point leaving things to chance when you are racing - last thing you want is a failure that could have been avoided.
Consistency is absolutely key so making sure all is good in advance is a great precaution. 

Some meetings we have 8 + passes on the same bearings as thats life & just checked after the meet had finished.



Jimefam said:


> I just want to confirm that by runs you mean passes? So every 6 passes you replace bearings and every 12-15 passes you refreshen the motor entirely? I ask because it's entirely possible to make that many passes in a single event how did that get done? Also was this out of extreme precaution or because after 6 passes the bearings needed to be replaced and after 12 the whole motor reworked?


----------



## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

trackday addict said:


> Extreme caution
> No point leaving things to chance when you are racing - last thing you want is a failure that could have been avoided.
> Consistency is absolutely key so making sure all is good in advance is a great precaution.
> 
> Some meetings we have 8 + passes on the same bearings as thats life & just checked after the meet had finished.


Ahh ok nothing wrong with being safe and it clearly works so can argue with that. On the occasions when you took them out after the 8+ passes did they demonstrate signs of needing to be replaced? I picked up my motor yesterday and will be putting it on an engine dyno for tuning in the coming week or so. Will change bearings after that more to get an idea of how it's running and to get a handle on what the maintenance schedule needs to be hence my questions.


----------



## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I agree, you are correct, to start with nothing and end up with a fully buillt complete 1000hp RB (the bigger the capacity the easier and more reliable it gets) is EASILY usd30,000 and more like usd40,000 if you add new custom parts and show quality finish through out.
> 
> Once you have your 1000hp engine, then what? You need another big bucket of money to get everything else you need to get it in the car and running/tuned correctly.
> 
> ...


Rob since this thread appears to have gone of course what is your maintenance schedule?


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Abbey M/S said:


> the trouble with that amount of BHP is the big end bearings aren't big enough to with stand the load for a long period.
> 
> You need big bearing clearance's and then a big oil pump to cope with the clearances.





Abbey M/S said:


> The drag motor had the big ends checked after every 6 drag runS and a full motor strip after 12/15 runs. The need a lot of servicing at big BHP ( over 1000bhp)





trackday addict said:


> Some meetings we have 8 + passes on the same bearings as thats life & just checked after the meet had finished.


I'm not having a dig or anything, I'm genuinley curious........Any thoughts as to why the bearings only lasted that long and why the whole engine needed to be checked/refreshed after just 12-15 runs?

What was found? what was replaced?

What sort of rpm did you take it too? Boost?

At 1200+whp and 9500rpm, 2 bar with a little NOS on C16 or Q16 we got way over 100 runs (probably more like 150+ if I had an add up) and 2 1/2 years out of the motor without touching it and when stripped it was mint other than the big end shells showing they'd done some hard work, the journals and everything else was still as new.

Obviously the engine capacity comes into it but maybe its the meth, or the tune a meth motor needs? or the amount of boost you had to run to get 1100whp from your size of enigne?

Like I say, I am just interested in where the differences lie as I have been asked to do a meth engine and I'm not sure I want to go there.

Rob


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Jimefam said:


> Rob since this thread appears to have gone of course what is your maintenance schedule?


See above, at 1100-1200whp, 1 or 2 oil changes (can't remember exactly) and 1 set of spark plugs in 2 1/2 years of road driving and competitive drag racing with a huge number of 7 second runs. The head or sump never came off during that time.

Rob


----------



## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

mattysupra said:


> Tell you what, here is what is in mine if you want a shopping list for a engine that has really good response, 600 Wheel BHP and runs on 95 ron pump fuel.
> 
> Your shopping list that i think you are asking for=
> 
> ...



Appreciate it man, I have been waiting this answer since I put the topic. 

Nice stuff and I got more information from your projetc

keep going guys.


----------



## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

.::TopSky::. said:


> Block, doesent matter wich block you run. Just use a fully prepped block by a pro engine builder.
> 
> Head, run a fully built head polished, modifed chambers (many ways to do this depends on your engine builder), maybe some new oversized valves, retainers, valve springs, guides, lifters etc
> 
> ...



I think you didn't read what I said, I said no more 1000HP 

just responsive engine. Thanks for some advice.


----------



## koria (Aug 13, 2011)

Glen said:


> Just search Mines R34 on youtube... is that the response you are wanting? hks2530s..That thing is bloody quick.


Oh yeh man, That is exactly what I want. but I have been looking at internet but didn't find any information. 

they also don't talk about the internal parts of the engine. I was thinking that they don't want to show their real project. 

I hope that you give some help in searching about mines RB26. 

Waiting you.


----------



## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Obviously the engine capacity comes into it but maybe its the meth, or the tune a meth motor needs? or the amount of boost you had to run to get 1100whp from your size of enigne?


I didn't know they ran meth. I remember reading about meth having a pretty negative effect on oil, perhaps it diminishes the lubrication or dramatically shortens oil life. I was originally curious because of the few 2jz's that I know of being over 1krwhp they don't refreshen nearly that often but they run either Q or E85.


----------



## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> See above, at 1100-1200whp, 1 or 2 oil changes (can't remember exactly) and 1 set of spark plugs in 2 1/2 years of road driving and competitive drag racing with a huge number of 7 second runs. The head or sump never came off during that time.
> 
> Rob


Thanks for the info that is incredibly impressive. I bet your between round checklist was a thing of beauty then.


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Jimefam said:


> Thanks for the info that is incredibly impressive. I bet your between round checklist was a thing of beauty then.


Cheers, the check list is almost non existant, just top up the fuel and check the tyre pressures usually much to the disgust of the V8 boys where were doing tappets, fuel system adjustments, plug changes, clutches and other things.

We went for our first test session yesterday, it had been raining all morning but once it dried out we put in a real soft tune, I'm always nervous for the first run of the season but she ran 7.8 off the trailer then 4 more 7s in a row getting quicker each time, best of 7.44 last run of the day still with lots to spare so I'm very happy and it was good to get the first runs of the season done on a no pressure day.


----------



## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

nailsgtr600 said:


> Just out of interest, what's been done to the borgs head, or ludders head, there's plenty to show rob :blahblah:
> 
> 
> Have you ever built a high powered 2.6?? Or is that a silly question???
> ...


RIPS did you miss this question......?? you must of switched off when you read 2.6!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Chocko (Sep 7, 2011)

koria said:


> Oh yeh man, That is exactly what I want. but I have been looking at internet but didn't find any information.
> 
> they also don't talk about the internal parts of the engine. I was thinking that they don't want to show their real project.
> 
> ...


Seriously, you have done no searching whatsoever! 

Go to the Mine's website, go to Power Managements and then go to Complete Engine.

If you had spent a minute using Google or the Search function up there in between New Posts and Quick Links, we wouldn't have your 30 posts asking stupid questions.


----------



## black bnr32 (Jan 20, 2011)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> first run of the season but she ran 7.8 off the trailer then 4 more 7s in a row getting quicker each time, best of 7.44 last run of the day still with lots to spare so I'm very happy and it was good to get the first runs of the season done on a no pressure day.


which car/chassis again, rob?


----------



## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

What mark is on about is the amount of load on the bearings, this comes with very high cylinder pressures, I have seen quite allot the way we got round it was to increases the oil pump pressure and use a thicker oil. but I don't no what boost mark is running so it may be something else.


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> What mark is on about is the amount of load on the bearings, this comes with very high cylinder pressures, I have seen quite allot the way we got round it was to increases the oil pump pressure and use a thicker oil. but I don't no what boost mark is running so it may be something else.




so a thicker oil would be better for a car making more power then? as in less chance of bearing damage? 

I was under the impression that the thinner the oil the better to get flow to the bearings on start up. However in my case i use a accusump so dont have to worry about getting oil there as it already is there on start up. so i would be better with thicker oil? 

oil confusses me!


----------



## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Yes if its braking down under load on the conrods but you all so need a good pump to work with it.


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

what grade oil are you talking? 

Also what pump. 

I presume a N1 pump for instance with its higher flow rate will suffice or you talking even higher flow pumps? 

Do we not also add more the problem on the RB's of the thicker oil getting stuck up in the head as it will flow back slower? 

So a extended sump would also be needed?


----------



## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

I don't mean that thick you would need to dry sump it to, the grade would depend on the bearing clearances.


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

nailsgtr600 said:


> RIPS did you miss this question......?? you must of switched off when you read 2.6!! :thumbsup:


The borgs head is very basic with stock valves, mild cams, mild porting, Ludders head has 1mm over valves, more extensive porting and slightly bigger cams.

I havn't built a high power 26, If I was specificly asked to I would but I see no real point when IMO the 30s can out perform the 26s,27s,28s in any application WE have used a RB for, be it street, drag, track, closed road/Targa racing etc.

Unless your restricted to a 2.6 to comply to some racing rules, why would you "chose" to stay 2.6?


----------



## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Cheers, the check list is almost non existant, just top up the fuel and check the tyre pressures usually *much to the disgust of the V8 boys where were doing tappets, fuel system adjustments, plug changes, clutches and other things.*
> 
> We went for our first test session yesterday, it had been raining all morning but once it dried out we put in a real soft tune, I'm always nervous for the first run of the season but she ran 7.8 off the trailer then 4 more 7s in a row getting quicker each time, best of 7.44 last run of the day still with lots to spare so I'm very happy and it was good to get the first runs of the season done on a no pressure day.


That right there is why I asked what your maintenance was. Most of the drag cars here are V8's and man do they have a ton of things to do in between rounds! They all pull the valve covers off and mess with the tune etc. I assume those times are with the FED correct? Great times this is the year for the 6's! Do you still use a turbo 400? Mine has the stock gearing but I've recently been offered the 2.10 gears for a pretty good price and wasn't sure if there'd be any benefit only was considering it since I'm limited to 275's. What are your 1/8 times on those runs? I'm trying to decide on gearing for the center section as well since I'll be running pretty much 1/8 stuff.


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Yes it was with the FED. I've never used a TH400 with the FED, always a 2 speed glide.

8th is 4.6 to 4.7 @ 147 to 148 on a 7.40ish run, best is 4.5 @ 150 on the 7.26 and best mph is 186.

Be carefull with a 1st gear thats too low, it can tend to shock the tyres, I'm not sure what 1st ratio I had in the 240's TH400 but it was "just" ok if we didn't try to leave with too much boost.

What 1st ratio do you have now?

Rob


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

is that 4.5 seconds 0 - 150 mph ?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

mattysupra said:


> is that 4.5 seconds 0 - 150 mph ?


yes, 0 to 75-80mph in 1 second and 0-150mph in 4.5


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> yes, 0 to 75-80mph in 1 second and 0-150mph in 4.5



Thats just daft. :thumbsup:


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Yes it was with the FED. I've never used a TH400 with the FED, always a 2 speed glide.
> 
> 8th is 4.6 to 4.7 @ 147 to 148 on a 7.40ish run, best is 4.5 @ 150 on the 7.26 and best mph is 186.
> 
> ...


Wow those are some Pretty unbelievable times to the 1/8. The record in the class I'm building for currently sits at 4.78 but times are typically in the 4.85-4.95 What do you typically 60'? 1st on the 400 is 2.48 which is the stock ratio. What type of rear suspension did you have in the 240? I'm running a ladder bar setup because 4 link isn't allowed. What does the FED weigh? Yeah the biggest obstacle will be leaving quickly enough will using the small radial, did/do you use any type of traction control?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Jimefam said:


> Wow those are some Pretty unbelievable times to the 1/8. The record in the class I'm building for currently sits at 4.78 but times are typically in the 4.85-4.95 What do you typically 60'?


1.10 - 1.12 with a best of 1.07.



Jimefam said:


> What type of rear suspension did you have in the 240?


4 link.



Jimefam said:


> What does the FED weigh?


2100lb



Jimefam said:


> did/do you use any type of traction control?


Nope, not allowed it in any form, we just leave with very low boost and feed it in as best as we can for the track conditions.

We can usually have 30-32psi in by 1/2 track but from there we have to pull boost back out again or it just smokes the tyres and goes slower.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Remember we didnt run the 4wd sump, we was running dry sump , it was very easy to remove the sump and check the bearings. Ant is correct we where always worried on big end bearing damage , yes we was running Meths but the only time you have trouble with oil contamination is if the car was tuned to run very rich.

One thing running a drag car is ensuring the oil temp is high enough , we used to pre heat the oil in the paddock was run Motul 300V 20/60W or 20/50W depending on air temperature.

We also was worried about the loading of the thrust side of the pistons due to highish boost pressure we was running.

A normal meeting even running @ a FIA metting we would normally check the bearing mid meeting in the evening and the motor would be pulled after the meeting for a freshen up. 

I know people would say why do you need to do that these motors will last for ever , but I am afraid they dont they need constant maintenance, compression test after every run , to go 7.48 @ 186 mph weighing 1080KG's need a few bhp/torque maybe more than 1100 wheel bhp we recorded on the dyno with the base tune, remember at 1100 bhp the car is running 392 bhp per litre more bhp a litre than a stock RB26 engine out put in full capacity , maximimum rpm was around 9000rpm, max boost on the AET hybrid GT47/42 was around 2.2 bar on methanol.

It is better to be safe than have a motor blown up.

Rob , is see you went 7.26 and 185mph , we went 7.48 @ 186mph , So according to my maths I would imagine we would have more BHP than you? due to trap speed at a slower ET? So maybe we are both out with our BHP figures?


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

Man that car is light! 1080KG is race ready with the driver? Or is that unloaded? Is the block filled? Did you have any chassis restrictions in your class? I'm just thinking how you got it so light. When you say freshen up the motor, was it just replace bearings and rings or did you also change other parts?


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

The car is a 2wd Skyline fitted with a RB28 , back half tube car,front end tubed as well. weight is minus the driver.

Yes we fill the block but we still pass water throught he top of the block and cylinder head.

Normally bearings and rings during the year, pistons/valves/valves springs at the start of the year.

No restictions as we used to run it in the Pro class on JDS series , but we have found the limit of this car we think. The car is a little wild on a 7.4 pass.

Brams Racing | Record Breaking Project GTST and Project Zed look at the Project GTST page.


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

Well I certainly was familiar with the cars numbers just wasn't to aware of the cars specs. Any use of nitrous or just anti lag of the line? Did you every think of running aluminum rods as a way to soften the blow on the bearings and journals? Perhaps you use them I just did see specs(on an iPhone can't see full page). I see you run the pwr ice to air, do you use ice and water or have you ever tried the dry ice as they advertise it as being capable of running? Thanks


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

nope no Nitrous just Motec ORB to make 1.6 bar boost on the line;

Alloy rods wont spin in the RB crankcase I think , we did look into it but we felt it wasnt worth the hassle;

The PWR cooler is something that we used but had a large pressure drop across the matrix , we was going to remove this if we every run the car again , we have used dry ice ( logistically is was a pain over a 4 day meeting to carry enough) but since we gone over to meths we only use crushed ice ( water based)


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

If some one puts up a proper dyno graph you should be able to work out BMEP on the piston so from there you can work out how much load you have on the rod.
Oh mark its Andy not ant must be old age.LOL


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> The borgs head is very basic with stock valves, mild cams, mild porting, Ludders head has 1mm over valves, more extensive porting and slightly bigger cams.
> 
> I havn't built a high power 26, If I was specificly asked to I would but I see no real point when IMO the 30s can out perform the 26s,27s,28s in any application WE have used a RB for, be it street, drag, track, closed road/Targa racing etc.
> 
> Unless your restricted to a 2.6 to comply to some racing rules, why would you "chose" to stay 2.6?


because you can get the results with a 2.6. and its cheaper to get the head done & get better results rather than go for a a stroker kit (2.7,2.8,3.0) which isnt needed in most cases... under a 1000bhp. all you need to do is make sure you build the bottom end strong enough to cope with the power imo...


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

nailsgtr600 said:


> because you can get the results with a 2.6. and its cheaper to get the head done & get better results rather than go for a a stroker kit (2.7,2.8,3.0) which isnt needed in most cases... under a 1000bhp. all you need to do is make sure you build the bottom end strong enough to cope with the power imo...


If I was in an area where RB30's were cheap and plentiful like Rob is I'd also never consider building anything below that. However here they're practically unicorns and so you see alot of 25's and 26's. However this is coming from someone building a drag 25 when with little trouble it could have been a 26 or 28 so take it for what it's worth.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Mate there's nothing wrong with a 25 engine the heads flow the same as a 26 and its a shorter stroke so you should be able to hang on to the turbo that bit more. were just building one at the moment.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Abbey M/S said:


> A normal meeting even running @ a FIA metting we would normally check the bearing mid meeting in the evening and the motor would be pulled after the meeting for a freshen up.


What did you usually find though? were the big ends "needing" to be changed or did you change them just out of precaution?

I would presume that you were chainging bearings because if you checked them after 5-6 runs and each time they were mint it wouldn't make sense to keep checking them that regularly?



Abbey M/S said:


> I know people would say why do you need to do that these motors will last for ever , but I am afraid they dont they need constant maintenance


All I can do is report on what we've found and maybe we've just been lucky but you've seen the strip down thread I did after 2 1/2 years at very high power/rpm, I must admit I was trying to find its limits, as long as it was running fine we didn't check anything, we wouldn't have minded if it did blow and I was as surprised as the next guy at how mint everything was after so many runs.



Abbey M/S said:


> To go 7.48 @ 186 mph weighing 1080KG's need a few bhp/torque maybe more than 1100 wheel bhp we recorded on the dyno with the base tune


It works out at 1100-1150whp to do what you have done.



Abbey M/S said:


> Rob , is see you went 7.26 and 185mph , we went 7.48 @ 186mph , So according to my maths I would imagine we would have more BHP than you? due to trap speed at a slower ET? So maybe we are both out with our BHP figures?


Your right, in the FED we have only been able to use around 1000whp so far due to traction problems but we are both correct in our maths.

RIPS FED is 2100lb and needs 1000whp to run 185mph
JB R33 is 2376lb and needs 1150whp to run 186mph
RIPS 240z is 2970lb and needs 1220whp to run 177mph
RIPS FED using 1220whp properly would be around 7.0s and 196mph

JBs 2.6 with 1150whp is 442whp per liter
Our 3.0 with 1220whp is 406whp per liter so JBs is very good indeed.

Maybe thats where the big end loading difference lies although I regularly reved higher than JB so that adds alot more load.

I was on Q16 with a GT45, JB was on Meth with a GT47 so its very interesting how different the maintainence was when on paper it seems there would have been similar loads. 

I'm not sure if we went from 406whp/liter to 442whp/liter (an extra 108bhp) we'd go from doing nothing in 150+runs to doing bearings every 5-6 runs and a refresh every 12-15 runs though and thats what I need to try and establish along with is it the meth or the meth tune that seems to be making the loadings so different.

What do you think?

Rob


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

nailsgtr600 said:


> because you can get the results with a 2.6. and its cheaper to get the head done & get better results rather than go for a a stroker kit (2.7,2.8,3.0) which isnt needed in most cases... under a 1000bhp. all you need to do is make sure you build the bottom end strong enough to cope with the power imo...


You can't get the same results with the 26 with the same bolt on parts, thats the whole point and if you started with nothing and wanted a nice reliable, streetable 750-900hp it would be cheaper to do the 30 and it would give far better results all round.

Even if you already have a decent 26 block and crank to start with, by the time you build the 26 bottom end to hold the power you've spent much the same as doing a 30 bottom end and from there on its all the same work/parts so its not cheaper to do a decent 26 over a decent 30 and if you do the 26 you end up with something that doesnt perform anything like the 30, just ask anyone who has a decent 30 if they'd ever go back to a 26, my money would be on they wouldn't.

There is no dought in some cases, for some people, it suits better to stick with the 26 or a low deck block 27,28 etc thats fine and nothing wrong with that but if they think they'll get the same or better results than they would with a properly built 30 they are missguided.

Rob


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

Is the project gts-t motor 2.6? And if so is that with a stock crank or a billet one that just keeps the same stroke?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Rob does the heat treatment skyline use a RB30?


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Rob does the heat treatment skyline use a RB30?


Be interesting to know what they've done to it though as that makes more power than any other rb I'm aware of by a mile.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Rob does the heat treatment skyline use a RB30?


No, its a 28 as far as I know running 50-60psi boost, meth etc.



Jimefam said:


> Be interesting to know what they've done to it though as that makes more power than any other rb I'm aware of by a mile.


They've made alot of custom engine parts and had years of development with it to try and get it to hold together at 1500-1600whp, it makes big power but they too are rebuilding it every 4-5 runs.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Don't they no about one of your 30s then rob?


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Come on rob today


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Don't they no about one of your 30s then rob?


Well if I remember correctly the last time I saw them post they said they were pulling the power back alot to try to get traction. Still rebuilding the engine every 4-5 passes is top fuel territory. Titan was having the same problem with their 2jz when they began running ADRL and iirc Reher Morrison took a look at their engine program and made some changes and now they are getting alot more passes out of the engine. Perhaps there is room for improvements to get more longevity out of the motor.


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

We for sure potentially could get more runs without an issue - HOWEVER why even think about risking hassle when you essentially dont need to 

If the car is between rounds then why not check it to avoid any potential hassles, at the big FIA meets we have some days where we may not run for hours & again makes sense to keep on top of things.

Main point bar none is to ensure we are ready to race with all guns blazing so absolute need for forewarned is forearmed 

Would feel fairly hacked off if we broke the car by not checking things when we had the opportunity - no points or prizes for who gets the most runs without checking anything


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Don't they no about one of your 30s then rob?


Lol, of course they do but what does that have to do with anything we are talking about here?

They make more power with their 28 than I have with my 30, their engine is on another planet compared to anything I've done, its highly modified in many areas, its very highly strung, very agressive in its power delivery and requires alot of maintainence.

I think my 30s go pretty well and for a long time when you consider they have stock blocks with no filler, stock cranks, stock cradles, stock mains bolts, small head studs etc, on petrol etc

Do you think a 30 with the same mods HT have couldn't go just as well?

There is almost nothing in common between the 2 mate but I'll be sure to let them know if they want the best head to give you a call. (are both types still available from you?)


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

trackday addict said:


> We for sure potentially could get more runs without an issue - HOWEVER why even think about risking hassle when you essentially dont need to
> 
> If the car is between rounds then why not check it to avoid any potential hassles, at the big FIA meets we have some days where we may not run for hours & again makes sense to keep on top of things.


I agree but your not going to strip the rear end every run "just to check" if its known that they can do a season without issue.

What did the bearings actually look like after 5-6 runs and did they get replaced each time regardless?

If you checked them and they were mint after 5-6 runs and you didn't change them, then after another 5-6 runs they were still mint and you didn't change them, then after another 5-6 runs they were still mint surely you wouldn't keep checking new bearings every 5-6 runs after that?

I'm not questioning your choice to check, I'm just trying to establish what they looked like with that state of tune on Meth after 5-6 runs.


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

trackday addict said:


> We for sure potentially could get more runs without an issue - HOWEVER why even think about risking hassle when you essentially dont need to
> 
> If the car is between rounds then why not check it to avoid any potential hassles, at the big FIA meets we have some days where we may not run for hours & again makes sense to keep on top of things.
> 
> ...


I for one am not implying anything negative when asking about the maintenance and I'm sure Rob isn't either. I'm asking out of curiosity and also because as I just received my RB back which will be used for drag I have an interest in keeping the engine together as best as possible. That's why I wanted to know if when you replaced the bearings after 5-6 runs if they came out mint or showed signs of needing to be replaced.

Edit: was typing while rob posted.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

JB GTST motor is 2.8 ltr , the big end bearings always show slight wear after being pulling and a set of bearings is far cheaper than a block/crank or a whole motor.

Meths will always load the bearings a little more as it burns so slow so we run a fairly advance ignition timing to get the best from the fuel.

We dont run big boost in the RB only 2.2 bar.

We can discuss this for ever Rob , we are happy with what we do and to be honest I doubt we will push the RB much further the VQ is a far better designed motor and makes far more bhp and the chassis we have the VQ fitted in will take a few more hundred BHP yet.

Heat treatment car I thinks is either a 2.6 or 2.8 ltr.

Andy sorry called you ANT.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I'll be sure to let them know if they want the best head to give you a call. (are both types still available from you?)


Touché lol :clap:


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> You can't get the same results with the 26 with the same bolt on parts, thats the whole point and if you started with nothing and wanted a nice reliable, streetable 750-900hp it would be cheaper to do the 30 and it would give far better results all round.
> 
> Even if you already have a decent 26 block and crank to start with, by the time you build the 26 bottom end to hold the power you've spent much the same as doing a 30 bottom end and from there on its all the same work/parts so its not cheaper to do a decent 26 over a decent 30 and if you do the 26 you end up with something that doesnt perform anything like the 30, just ask anyone who has a decent 30 if they'd ever go back to a 26, my money would be on they wouldn't.
> 
> ...



when you buy a gtr rob you start with an rb26, there for you start with a good crank/block/head etc (or should do) so it cant be as expensive....

so how can building a decent 2.6 amount to the same money as buying a fresh rb30.... surely with the money saved you'll be able to get to get a decent head built??!!

imo getting the head done should be the first thing on a tuners list... its the most important part of any engine, imparticular the rb head cus the flow is so poor!! do you agree?!


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

nailsgtr600 said:


> when you buy a gtr rob you start with an rb26, there for you start with a good crank/block/head etc (or should do) so it cant be as expensive....
> 
> so how can building a decent 2.6 amount to the same money as buying a fresh rb30.... surely with the money saved you'll be able to get to get a decent head built??!!
> 
> imo getting the head done should be the first thing on a tuners list... its the most important part of any engine, imparticular the rb head cus the flow is so poor!! do you agree?!


650 brake can be made using turbos and standard parts - why on earth would head work be the first mod?


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> 650 brake can be made using turbos and standard parts - why on earth would head work be the first mod?



if you compared a motor with standard parts (head and cams) making 650brake with say 2530's for instance to an exact same motor but with a ported head and oversize valves etc you would find it makes the same power with far less boost, less heat, less strain, and will produce far more torque and power at the same boost levels as the standard head.... there for be far more reliable?!


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Rob I'am not having a go all I said is if the your RB30 set up is that good why aren't heat treatments using the same set up? it says in you add RB30 suit 1400HP surely that would be the cheapest rough? and rob I don't think they need any help from me. mikegtr aren't you the guy with the ebay pulleys?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

nailsgtr600 said:


> if you compared a motor with standard parts (head and cams) making 650brake with say 2530's for instance to an exact same motor but with a ported head and oversize valves etc you would find it makes the same power with far less boost, less heat, less strain, and will produce far more torque and power at the same boost levels as the standard head.... there for be far more reliable?!


Never disputed that.

But you have constantly said that you NEED to have head work to make good power.

My point the whole time has been not to disagree but to say that although the head may not be great for flowing, its still easy to make good power.

I've also said that with all these wonderful mods being made to the 2.6 head, surely the results would be even better on a RB30 using that head, but that seems to have been conveniently ignored.

A simple question.
With one of your all singing all dancing heads on a RB26 bottom end, would you expect less, the same, or more power if it were on a RB30 - all like for like with equivilent supporting mods?


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> Never disputed that.
> 
> But you have constantly said that you NEED to have head work to make good power.
> 
> ...



it would mike yes without a doubt, but ive said to make good power ie (the original question was how to build an 1000bp rb26) you will have to get the head done as the standard one wont flow much more that 800flywheel bhp.... 

so mike do you agree that it should be one of the first things to mod then?! the ONLY reason tuners dont push the head to be modded is because very few do it in house if any in the uk?!?! there for having to rely on others which takes time, stroker kits are so much easier to sell and look so much better on the spec sheet, but imo we dont need them, at the end of the day the heads a part we all own but gets over looked by so many!!! 


its not just a simple case of bolting everything down to a forged 3.0 or 2.8and with the right turbo and fuelling you'll get 1000bhp... it wont work!


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

In respect to the original question, the guy is a troll, so it was pretty much ignored and by all sense and purpose I answered the 'what is required' part with my answer of 'massive turbo, fueling to match and a forged bottom end' as in essence, that is the easiest way to do. However, quite clearly it is not the proper way to do things, as the car would be undrivable, but as a dyno queen and for pub talk, it would suffice.


I agree head work is an important part of tuning, it is also an expensive part of tuning and if we are both honest, price per pony, money is better spent elsewhere, but again, that is all down to subjectivity and what the owner is trying to achieve.

for example, I've gone for a t78 single turbo running relatively low boost because for me I don't mind lag and its a cheap and easy route. However, some might like to go smaller turbos with higher boost levels and achieve the same results.

What we can be sure of though is that all this scourn that is being poured upon Robs RB30 conversions are ridiculous. He has proved (and continues to prove) that his conversions and workmanship are worldclass, without one off cranks/rods/secret sprec heads etc, so just imagine what he could achieve with all of that.

Perhaps Ant would like to team up with Rob (sorry Andy, couldn't resist )


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

MIKEGTR said:


> Perhaps Ant would like to team up with Rob


or Dec as he will now be known


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> mikegtr aren't you the guy with the ebay pulleys?


Na I'm the one with the trust pulleys who was advising not to buy ebay ones. Nice try though :thumbsup:


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

MIKEGTR said:


> In respect to the original question, the guy is a troll, so it was pretty much ignored and by all sense and purpose I answered the 'what is required' part with my answer of 'massive turbo, fueling to match and a forged bottom end' as in essence, that is the easiest way to do. However, quite clearly it is not the proper way to do things, as the car would be undrivable, but as a dyno queen and for pub talk, it would suffice.
> 
> 
> I agree head work is an important part of tuning, it is also an expensive part of tuning and if we are both honest, price per pony, money is better spent elsewhere, but again, that is all down to subjectivity and what the owner is trying to achieve.
> ...


mike its probably the cheapest way of getting bhp out of your engine.... why do you thinks its so expensive?!


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

MIKEGTR said:


> In respect to the original question, the guy is a troll


Yes, but after 12 pages we're still biting and he's probably playing on his x-box and watching C-Beebies laughing at us all. Well, you lot anyway.:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

nailsgtr600 said:


> mike its probably the cheapest way of getting bhp out of your engine.... why do you thinks its so expensive?!


Head off
Head gasket
Rocker gasket
Inlet manifold gasket
Exhaust gasket
24 valves, 24 springs, etc etc
Porting 
Polishing (various opinions on this)
And most importantly - labour on all of the above. 

I'd be surprised if u get change from £2k


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

and cams....lol

its still cheaper than a stroker kit or 3.0, you'd be amazed at how a well ported 2.6 goes and revs...


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Yes, but after 12 pages we're still biting and he's probably playing on his x-box and watching C-Beebies laughing at us all. Well, you lot anyway.:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:




lol, your not far wrong....


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Abbey M/S said:


> JB GTST motor is 2.8 ltr , the big end bearings always show slight wear after being pulling and a set of bearings is far cheaper than a block/crank or a whole motor.
> 
> Meths will always load the bearings a little more as it burns so slow so we run a fairly advance ignition timing to get the best from the fuel.


Thanks, thats all I was wanting to know and I agree, if you have time and its easy enough to do, its worth replacing big ends regularly.

Rob


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

nailsgtr600 said:


> when you buy a gtr rob you start with an rb26, there for you start with a good crank/block/head etc (or should do) so it cant be as expensive....
> 
> so how can building a decent 2.6 amount to the same money as buying a fresh rb30.... surely with the money saved you'll be able to get to get a decent head built??!!


The block and crank content of a RB30 bottom end build is very minimal and definatley not anything like the value of getting a decent 1000hp/9000rpm head built (less than a 10th of the value in fact).

Once you have either a good 26 block and crank or a good 30 block and crank to use as a starting point, they both require the same work to be done to build a bottom end suitable for 1000hp, therefore, as I said, there is very little difference in price in building a RB30 bottom end over a 26 bottom end and if the customer doesn't have a 26 block and crank and is starting from scratch its actually cheaper to do a 30.

From there, almost everything you need to do is the same so its very possible to do a 30 for only a small amount more than doing a 26 and the 1000hp street/striop RB30 will out perform the 26 in every way when it has the same head work and bolt ons.



nailsgtr600 said:


> imo getting the head done should be the first thing on a tuners list... its the most important part of any engine, imparticular the rb head cus the flow is so poor!! do you agree?!


I wouldn't say the first thing, but once again it depends on what you want to end up with, 10s are do-able in a full weight GTR with a totally stock head so there's plenty of other areas one could spend money on to get good results without doing anything to the head but you are right, once you DO do the head properly, power comes much easier.

Rob


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Rob I'am not having a go all I said is if the your RB30 set up is that good why aren't heat treatments using the same set up?


Hahaha :clap: the STREET RBs I do are not even close to being in the same league as the full on meth drag engine HT uses in their GTR. 

HT started working with RBs long before I did and obviously they felt that the 26-28 was better for the way they wanted the motor to perform (personally I like alot of torque, petrol and NOS to "grunt my way down the track", they seem to prefere explosive/agressive, more peeky, high boost, meth RBs), they have always run 26s-28s as far as I know due to the blocks they chose to go with, they do a huge amount of custom work to them and they are in a totally different league, my 30s are street engines not full on drag motors and as such they don't make the power HT have been able to get from their combination.

PERSONALLY (due to budget limitations and not having alot of spare time between meetings), I would rather do sweet F&*K all at a meeting and check tire pressures and top up fuel, do nothing between meetings and have a motor that lasts 2-3 seasons and make 400-500hp less than someone who has to constantly strip and repair/refresh their engine.

I chose to go with a different type of car so I could go quicker without the stress and expense and I still can't use all the power the RB30 makes, maybe if we'd got a suitable chassis years ago and a suitable budget we'd have pushed the RB much further and started breaking things and we too would be at a similar place to HT power wise but that hasn't happened so we are where we are.

As I said before, I'm sure if HT wanted to and put their minds to it and did the same work to a 30 they do to their 2.8 (or whatever size it is) I'm sure they could get similar results.



[email protected] said:


> it says in you add RB30 suit 1400HP surely that would be the cheapest rough?


WHAT?


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