# Understeer / Oversteer



## DevilJin (Jan 16, 2004)

Hey guys

I have done a search using understeer as the keyword on both this forum and google and have picked up some useful info, particularly helpful for a beginner like me to understand was 
http://www.dur.ac.uk/r.g.bower/PoM/pom/pom.html

Note that it says "pom", not "porn", lest anyone think I'm posting dodgy links.

I was accelerating my recently acquired R33 GTR round a left-turning bend the other day and the back end started to slide out to the right, so naturally I crapped my pants and lifted off the accelerator and corrected the steering wheel to the right, and the car twanged back into line. 

So after taking numerous calming substances, I have come up with the following questions:

1) The above would lead me to conclude that the R33 "suffers" (maybe I should write enjoys) from oversteer right? 

2) Is that true for most rear wheel drive cars (I know there' lots more factors to take into consideration but as a ver general rule)

3) Do the R32 and R34 also experience oversteer? More so or less than the R33?

4) In the R33, Is there much difference between the GTR and the V-Spec in the sliding out of the back end, due to the different systems in place (LSD, Attesa Pro, stiffer suspension etc)

5) Would installing a Field ETS controller and giving the front wheels more torque than Attesa normally would reduce such overtsteer?

I know these are basic questions, but I would really appreciate guidance on how to handle my car, and how to compensate for my lack of high-speed cornering experience. 

Also, I'm thinking of doing one of those 6hr skid control sessions which are offered by outdoor/driving experience companies eg Blue Yonder. Anyone done one of these? 

Regards to all,

Awais


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## MattPayne (Apr 11, 2002)

yep.. our cars should oversteer... its a feature of all RWD cars... the more power you have, the greater the likelyhood of the rear breaking away...

I find it scary as hell, but at the same time amazing fun! I would love to learn how to control it properly...


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## phatty (May 18, 2002)

I don't know what your on about, GTR's drive themselves  J/K 

seriously tho, GTR's are RWD untill the rear looses traction, they will then add power to the front wheels to try to pull you out of the slide. This won't work if you lift off the accelerator.
As a general rule, all RWD cars oversteer, all FWD cars understeer, most permanant 4wd cars are setup to understeer, and GTR's/4x4 porches/lambo's etc, have funny electronic gismo's to counteract oversteer.. The best thing to do is get on track and find the limits of the car safely


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

I personally don't see the R34s attesa as a system that "counteracts oversteer."


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## kgleeson (Sep 16, 2003)

*Oversteer / Understeer*

Hi m8,

Welcome to the delights of owning a Skyline   

I spun my R33 on a roundabout and the backend can get quite loose depending on the road conditions and obviously how heavy your right foot is especially in the lower gears. I have looked at Torque Split controllers and the Race logic Traction control unit. 

Check this thread out and read the autospeed article in there as well.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?threadid=19533&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

It will give you some indication of the oversteer / understeer problems and the use of Torque Split controllers. I posted a thread on Traction control units and although Race logic do them most Skyline owners tended to dismiss them as a vaible solution.

The link below is to a thread I tarted on Traction Control after spining my GTR.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?threadid=17498&highlight=racelogic

P.S
I Sh1t myself when I spun the car, fortunately I got away with it and I am also now looking to do some track days and skid pad training.

Kev


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Why does everyone have such a problem with oversteer?

Did everyone go from driving FWD or understeer biast 4x4s to GTRs, or just slow stuff?

Sounds like youd all be dead in 5seconds in my old cossie! lol


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## phatty (May 18, 2002)

DCD said:


> *I personally don't see the R34s attesa as a system that "counteracts oversteer." *


sorry, bad choice of words, counteract implys that it immediately pulls the rear into line, which it doesn't do as you can hold a slide quite nicely.. and I've not driven a 34, only a 32, the attesa is improved through the models isn't it?


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## phatty (May 18, 2002)

SteveN said:


> *Why does everyone have such a problem with oversteer?
> 
> Did everyone go from driving FWD or understeer biast 4x4s to GTRs, or just slow stuff?
> 
> Sounds like youd all be dead in 5seconds in my old cossie! lol *


lol  Oversteer is the best thing in the world, I'm currently running 3.5* of camber in the rear (not through choice ) and this leads to some positively deadly handling :smokin:


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

unfortunately most mainstream cars are FWD so most of us learn to drive and start off owning FWD cars. I was lucky enough to have a vauxhall chevette and rover SD1 as my first and second cars 

so in making all my first mistakes they were all RWD ones........

natral reaction when driving and something unexpected starts to happen is to 'let go' it takes concentration or expirience to overcome this, and of course this is not always the wrong thing to do.

the best thing you can do is to take you car on an airfield/track day to learn and understand the limits of the vehicle you are driving. 

Simon


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## Toby Broom (Aug 25, 2003)

My views are:

2. Oversteer is associated typically with RWD, but you can oversteer any car, having the power going to the rear wheels helps it oversteer. Almost all race cars are RWD so it must be quicker to have RWD??

3/4. the R32 is probally worst oversteering as the transfer to the front wheels is slowest to respond as it all mechanical. After that The std R33 then the v-spec as the v-spec's computer is faster (1/100 vs 1/1000 of a sec). Dunno about R34, suppose it's better?

5. if you stuck in a field E-TS then you could wind it up so it was always 4WD, then it would be like a scooby or Evo.

I think everyone is used to driving understeery cars as even 4WD cars are setup understeery as it considered safer. So most ppl these day's have no experiance in driving RWD.

Sounds well scary having a 2WD cossie, steve

100% my view! ---> 

After much thinking, I could buy a Field E-TS and wind it up to 4WD and drive like I always have or I could invest the money in learning how to imporve my driving skill.

<--


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Only scary for the passengers, lol. It was totaly stripped so weighed barely over 1000kg, and upwards of 400bhp, so wheelspin in the wet in 5th was normal, and would oversteer on demand wet or dry without hardly trying (good trick was sideways round the mini roundabout in posh bit of town centre at only about 20mph on packed sat afternoons, lol)
Cant beat a bit of power oversteer.

But thats how i wanted it :smokin: 

Few general points that come to mind for everyone---

Take off the mph converter and R32 4wd is much quicker.

You dont REALLY belive you can tell the difference between 1/100 and 1/1000 of a sec do you?

Oversteer is faster than understeer, hence why racers are either, given the choise, RWD, or oversteer biast 4x4 .

And dont all be such pussys, lol


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## chas (Sep 19, 2003)

*I*

have field torque splitter but find it a lot better with it off. 
Car is very tail happy esp in the wet but good fun.
Bit of an oldie so was brought up on RWD but been driving mainly FWD for a while.
A guy at work has a 3dr cossie and it snakes a bit in 2nd but it's not got the same power as SteveNs.

Had a LWB Transit with a rear diff last year for a bit and when it was empty     

Charlie...


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## lost in space (Nov 27, 2003)

Deviljin,

not wishing to detract from the oversteer discussion but if you are new to 4 wheel steer you should also learn to recognise the feel of 4w steer. It may initially feel like the back end is sliding out but it may just be your 4w steering. 

You will feel this most easily when you take short bends quite quickly and make a very sharp and rapid turn. I believe the sensors on your steering wheel sense your action on the wheel, combine your road speed blah blah and do the 4ws for you.

Try some agressive action on the steering wheel and you will feel it. Best to test this by not turning at all and when you are cacking it make a kind of "last minute disaster recovery manouvre". then you will know! :smokin:  

not disputing that it may just be some oversteer....


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## chas (Sep 19, 2003)

*Deviljin*

your PM box is full.

Charlie...


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## DevilJin (Jan 16, 2004)

Hey Charlie, sorry about that, it's empty now 

Regards

Awais


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