# Stage 1 from Middlehurst or Litchfield?



## Rob234 (Sep 20, 2011)

Having looked through the forum the re-map of the engine, transmission and then Y pipe is clearly a no brainer. My car is due a service and has concierge, so it seems easy to book it into Middlehurst Motorsport and have them service and upgrade... but then I see that Litchfield can service the car and keep the warranty valid. Anyone got any experience of using Middlehurst for upgrades or any thoughts on using a non-Nissan dealer to service the car?

It’s my first mod on the car so I’m grateful for any advice.


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## Useyourwings (Mar 12, 2012)

I am in a similar dilemma, but I also live much closer to Middlehurst. Do Litchfield offer the concierge service too? 

I am planning on leaving the mods until after the 36k service as I want to make sure any potential warranty issues are identified and resolved first, so I may go to Middlehurst for the service and to Litchfield for the re-maps and pipe later.


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

As far as I know, Middlehursts only do the Nismo upgrades, the ECU one appearing to be an expensive waste of time. I htink Zed Ed had his done, so might well chip in and will be better informed through experience.

Litchfield stage 1 means y pipe and remap using Ecutek software. I had it done about 12 months ago and was amazed at the result. You can really feel a big difference in power and torque and the y pipe makes the car sound great. Since then I've gone to Litchfield stage 2, which means going to full Milltek exhaust (excluding downpipes) and iirc K&N filters, with an adjusted map. Again, this works absolutley great and slightly quietens exhaust note, which is handy if you want to do trackdays. Also, worth getting the my11 gearbox software upgrade done at the same time, assuming you have an 09 or 10 car. It is loads smoother (I couldn't tell much difference at first but 2 months on it feels silky smooth - changes are way better than on the 09 software).

As you may have guessed by now, I'm a big fan of the Litchfield setup - Iain is great guy who has built his business on attention to detail and complete honesty. I have never heard a bad word spoken about the way he goes about things and would wholheartedly recommend him for both servicing and tuning work.

That said, I have never used Middlehurst, but I know Iain views them as the best HPC. Just not sure they are big on the tuning side.:thumbsup:

Re concierge service - this is an HPC only thing. I believe Litchfield will offer a collection and delivery but presume this comes at extra charge. I perosnally prefer to take a day off and drive down - it's worth the trip to see the setup and you get a good few hours to enjoy the mods on the way home.


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## sin (Dec 3, 2007)

Have a word with Gary at Middlehursts as i know they are authorised Ecutek dealers. Yes they have kept away from modifying cars under warranty - whether this will be the case in the future i dont know.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Useyourwings said:


> I am in a similar dilemma, but I also live much closer to Middlehurst. Do Litchfield offer the concierge service too?
> 
> *I am planning on leaving the mods until after the 36k service* as I want to make sure any potential warranty issues are identified and resolved first, so I may go to Middlehurst for the service and to Litchfield for the re-maps and pipe later.


Not sure how many miles a year you do...but good luck with that


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## Useyourwings (Mar 12, 2012)

misters3 - I do about 6k - 7k miles per year so I expect it will have only reached 15k miles when it is time for the 36 month / 36k mile service


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## Useyourwings (Mar 12, 2012)

micky - this is really helpful, thanks. I had planned on not modding until the warranty expired as I that will give me time to know the car and make sure any serious items are resolved before it runs out.

Let's see if I can hold off that long though 

You mentioned that the quieter exhaust noise helps with track days - I assume this is because some tracks have a noise limit. Of the events I have this year Goodwood has imposed a 98db limit. Have you any idea if stock exhaust, y-pipe or full milltek breach this?


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Useyourwings said:


> misters3 - I do about 6k - 7k miles per year so I expect it will have only reached 15k miles when it is time for the 36 month / 36k mile service


Snap....i lasted about 18 months!!


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## DODGY (Oct 28, 2001)

Try RBMotorsport they should be good on price.

Graham


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## Rob234 (Sep 20, 2011)

sin said:


> Have a word with Gary at Middlehursts as i know they are authorised Ecutek dealers. Yes they have kept away from modifying cars under warranty - whether this will be the case in the future i dont know.


Yeah i spoke to Gary this AM he was very knowledgeable and helpful. He offered me stage one (re-map for engine, gearbox and Y pipe) for £1500-£1600 ish. I like the idea of using a Nissan dealer to do the work and it gets the stamp for the service as Nissan but I cant help wondering if the Litchfield stage 1 would be the same or better?


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

Useyourwings said:


> micky - this is really helpful, thanks. I had planned on not modding until the warranty expired as I that will give me time to know the car and make sure any serious items are resolved before it runs out.
> 
> Let's see if I can hold off that long though
> 
> You mentioned that the quieter exhaust noise helps with track days - I assume this is because some tracks have a noise limit. Of the events I have this year Goodwood has imposed a 98db limit. Have you any idea if stock exhaust, y-pipe or full milltek breach this?


Sorry, can't really give you reliable guidance on this. There's a bit more discussion on noice levels here:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/162236-exhaust.html

Lots of other threads too so maybe try a search. I'd speak to Iain Litchfield - he might be bale to give you an idea of the ratings of the different options. However, I know from experience that Milltek y pipe with stock catback is loud (sounds great, but loud!). And 98db is quite a low limit so I would not be surprised if a y pipe only setup failed. I;m not aware of anyone saying they have had noise limit problems with the full Milltek though, but obviously it's another chunk of cash that you may prefer not to spend.

Rich GT on here does a lot at Goodwood if a remember - maybe send him a PM and see what setup he has?

Mick


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Hi , bring it to us , we are EcuTek and Cobb dealers and can carry out the service to Nissan specification.

Cars are tuned on the dyno , so every car is mapped not just a generic map uploaded.

Look at our Abbey forum for service prices and I am sure we can pick the car up as well, or you can use one of our courtesy cars, might even let you have a driv ein our Dig T Juke.


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## Useyourwings (Mar 12, 2012)

MickV - thanks for the pointer. That is a helpful post along with some others.

Mark - I will give it a look, thanks.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Interesting that MH are doing ecutek R35 tunes now; I'd not heard that.

The Nismo ecu is pretty subtle in terms of outright performance. If you want grunt, get a stage; if you want a warrantied change to how the car drives, go Nismo.

Y-pipe alone may make you marginal on some trackdays. Ought to pass muster at a 105db day though. I had a y-pipe for a while and it measured 102db static ( at Combe ) Full miltek system is quieter. My stock exhaust measured 91db static at Bedford, by comparison. If you want to track then you need to think about exhaust noise when adding aftermarket pipes. If it sounds large on the road, chances are you won't get on track or will be sent home for a drive-by noise crime.

Stock R35 does 90db drive-by at Silverstone, for example


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Ring them both and then go to Litchfields !!!

I posted a load of stuff about Y pipes and Track days when I got my car 2008, the standard Y pipe will not allow you on some tracks so best to go for the complete Miltek SS exhaust system, bigger bore, helps turbo's spool up quicker and the car breath more easily + will get you on ALL circuits !


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

That harsh Steve as you have had your car at Abbey after it wasn't tuned right.

Do you think we don't know what we are doing tuning these R35GTR's , We have been around a while tuning car even tuning Stock Nissan ECU's far longer than a lot of people.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

errr, talking about the R35 aren't we ? 

Dam it - forgot that you now do R35's !! My apologies !


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

1 tracked mind I see. 

I been tuning stock Gen 1 to Gen 4 Nissan ECU;s for over 3 years now days , tuning 350/370Z after adding turbo's and big BHP N?A cars , from what I have seen/used on both EcuTek and Cobb ( not used Cobb yet as I have just ordered the software) it isnt rocket science as we have a lot of experience tuning turbo cars on our in house Dynapack dyno.

Drop up in you R35GTR Steve , you can have a free run on the dyno when we discuss the work on your 33GTR/


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Will do Mark !!


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## blitzer_bhoy (May 26, 2007)

whatever you choose I would certainly have a custom map...not a fan of generic maps one bit...just my 2p worth...dont have my R35 yet but I have always opted for custom maps on my previous Skylines...as soo as I get mine it will be dyno/live mapped ..


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Take it to Litchfields.


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## Rob234 (Sep 20, 2011)

Zed Ed said:


> Interesting that MH are doing ecutek R35 tunes now; I'd not heard that.
> 
> The Nismo ecu is pretty subtle in terms of outright performance. If you want grunt, get a stage; if you want a warrantied change to how the car drives, go Nismo.
> 
> ...


That’s good advice, thank you. 

MH didn’t actually say it was Ecutek but he offered me Nismo ECU or re-map along with gearbox update. He said he would email me details but not heard from him as yet.

I think I might have to go stage 1 and Y pipe to get it out of my system.


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## Useyourwings (Mar 12, 2012)

Zed Ed said:


> Interesting that MH are doing ecutek R35 tunes now; I'd not heard that.
> 
> The Nismo ecu is pretty subtle in terms of outright performance. If you want grunt, get a stage; if you want a warrantied change to how the car drives, go Nismo.
> 
> ...


Perfect - this is exactly the information I needed. Makes the decision straight forward. Stock exhaust until after Goodwood. Wait a little longer / save harder and go for the full Miltek system and regardless.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Nismo ECU gives the same BHP as a stock ECU just has the throttle map enhanced to make the car respond faster, I have had a car on the dyno with both a Nismo and a Stock ECU , I will post it up tomorrow for you guys to see.


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## SamboGrove (Jun 27, 2010)

Rob234 said:


> Having looked through the forum the re-map of the engine, transmission and then Y pipe is clearly a no brainer. My car is due a service and has concierge, so it seems easy to book it into Middlehurst Motorsport and have them service and upgrade... but then I see that Litchfield can service the car and keep the warranty valid. Anyone got any experience of using Middlehurst for upgrades or any thoughts on using a non-Nissan dealer to service the car?
> 
> It’s my first mod on the car so I’m grateful for any advice.


Big thumbs up for Litchfields from me. Iain's a great chap to deal with and it's cheaper than getting it done at a HPC. 

I tried to stay stock for a while. Managed a year and then had the stage I with y-pipe and transmission upgrade. Massive difference to how the car responds and sounds and i can't believe i didnt do it sooner!

No concerns with the warranty side of things either with something sensible like the stage I and Litchfield use OEM fluids or better so servicing is fine wrt warranty also.


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

I recently bought a GT-R with a Middlehurst Nismo ECU upgrade, we put it on the rollers at The Racing Line in Halifax and it gave 518bhp, Matt then did an Ecutek remap and we ended up with 600bhp. :bowdown1:
Ecutek is definitely the way to go and as was said on here previously use a company that does individual maps done on the rollers if you want to extract the best power output from your car.


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## *MrB* (Dec 2, 2009)

+1 for Litchfields, servicing and tuning all top notch :thumbsup:


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## ameen (Mar 8, 2012)

> Yeah i spoke to Gary this AM he was very knowledgeable and helpful. He offered me stage one (re-map for engine, gearbox and Y pipe) for £1500-£1600 ish. I like the idea of using a Nissan dealer to do the work and it gets the stamp for the service as Nissan but I cant help wondering if the Litchfield stage 1 would be the same or better?


That sounds very reasonable... Specially if it's from a Nissan garage..


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

These was talk of Ecutek releasing a lead to allow bespoke tunes based on logged data; it's been due imminently for the past year.

When it comes, it'll be nice to have the flexibility of the Cobb users in this way. Don't know if LC4 upward s/w will be offered too, like the Cobb.

At the mo, the generic map is very good, but I have to agree a tuner who rolling roads the car before and after to measure the change has got to be best practice. :smokin:

I decided to "buy British" with the Ecutek product with a view to having a local business available to support and develop its product. However, in practice the Cobb boys seem very satisfied and well-looked after by the UK base of tuners, sellers and the US parent of Cobb itself. :squintdan

In hindsight had I known they'd be a long delay on the Ecutek front, I would have probably gone for the Cobb. However, we are where we are. opcorn:

Car goes like stink, so all smiles there. :bowdown1:


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## rob wild (Jul 30, 2007)

Aerodramatics said:


> I decided to "buy British" with the Ecutek product with a view to having a local business available to support and develop its product.


Who's local in the Northwest that does Ecutek? I went with RB Motorsport in the end because they can do both and they are local and have always done a good job


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## sammyh (Jan 3, 2012)

Adamantium said:


> Take it to Litchfields.



Blunt, to the point and very sound advice :thumbsup:


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## tomgtr (May 24, 2008)

I don't live in the UK so can't use Lichtfield so ECUTEK was out for me from the start. They also were later with tuning R35's than COBB. so was easy choice for me. But even now with ECUTEK having caught up with COBB I would probably chose COBB AP. Very handy tool, can chance maps when COBB have improved their maps without traveling. Service from Benji is outstanding. Changed last week to LC5 and got straight away new map from Ben, did some logs, Ben tweaked my new map and end of the day I had my new map (or in fact 4 switchable map with 0 boost/95 RON map/97 RON map and 95 RON map). And that on a Sunday. Service can't get better than that surely.


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Get a Cobb accessport from GTC. Control in your hands, not a dealer. Simples.
The Cobb does a lot more than just reflashing maps.


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## digi (Dec 17, 2010)

mickv said:


> As far as I know, Middlehursts only do the Nismo upgrades, the ECU one appearing to be an expensive waste of time. I htink Zed Ed had his done, so might well chip in and will be better informed through experience.
> 
> Litchfield stage 1 means y pipe and remap using Ecutek software. I had it done about 12 months ago and was amazed at the result. You can really feel a big difference in power and torque and the y pipe makes the car sound great. Since then I've gone to Litchfield stage 2, which means going to full Milltek exhaust (excluding downpipes) and iirc K&N filters, with an adjusted map. Again, this works absolutley great and slightly quietens exhaust note, which is handy if you want to do trackdays. Also, worth getting the my11 gearbox software upgrade done at the same time, assuming you have an 09 or 10 car. It is loads smoother (I couldn't tell much difference at first but 2 months on it feels silky smooth - changes are way better than on the 09 software).
> 
> ...


How about purchasing? I am looking to import one from them. Thx


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

We carry Cobb AccessPORTS on the self and are able to supply EcuTeK remaps both tuned on our dyno or we can provide E tune service for the Cobb , E tuning for the EcuTek will come soon.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

rob wild said:


> Who's local in the Northwest that does Ecutek? I went with RB Motorsport in the end because they can do both and they are local and have always done a good job


Sorry Rob, when I typed "local" I was thinking of a product developed, sold and supported in the UK as opposed to imported from the USA, as the known R35 Cobb tuners at the time were all further away than Litchfields was to me, so I plumped for Litchfields. Iain has a great reputation and I'm very happy with the service on the day from Iain - in fact I really enjoyed my sunny Summer's day driving in his beat-up but swift Scooby in and around the local tourist spots.

But I am a 400 mile round trip, so afterwards nipping-in isn't an option I'd chose lightly, although I've thought about the trailer service as it keeps the miles off the car and tyres and costs about the same as petrol and an over night stay.

Now, Rod Bell does Cobb tuning for the GT-R, it's a no-brainer to use Rod on a standard car in the Northwest in my humble opinion. At the time I gambled that the UK Ecutek development and support would outpace Cobb and the "fabled cable" would be here last July so that "E-tunes" based on logged data would be supported. Unfortunately it's still on its way.

I also never knew that Ecutek was harder to remove than a simple reflash, which is annoying as otherwise I'd probably go down the Cobb route even now.

All things considered, I'd prefer to have to Cobb right now, but can't undo what I've done, so have to live with it. The Ecutek tune is very good, so I'm still all smiles; hindsight is a wonderful thing.


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## ifty (Jul 27, 2005)

Cobbs the way to go that way you're in control and the service you get from Ben at gtc is unrivalled all updates inc tweaks in my maps all done for no extra cost :bowdown1:


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## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

ifty said:


> Cobbs the way to go that way you're in control and the service you get from Ben at gtc is unrivalled all updates inc tweaks in my maps all done for no extra cost :bowdown1:


At the moment it seems so, especially if you want to remove the map easily to sell/service...

The mapping process for Cobb seems to be more tedious compared to Ecutek though but the convenience should balance that out!


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