# Clutch suddenly not working R32 GTR



## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Hi all,

Got a R32 GTR and recently had a spec twin plate clutch fitted (very noisy thing must be said) along with a secondhand gearbox.

Was working fine until yesterday when I was in 3rd, did a pull to about 5k and tried to change to 4th, at which point it refused to go into 4th and I found I didnt have any clutch at all - pedal was still fine as normal if lacking a little weight to it. Put it in second by rev matching and pootled it home but now at a bit of a loss of what to do...

Anyone have any idea what might have gone wrong here at all? Bit gutted having just spent a fortune getting the car sorted and MOT'd (2 days ago...)


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Do you still have clutchfluid?


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

freakazoid3 said:


> Do you still have clutchfluid?


Yep fluid levels look fine


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

could be thrust bearing has collapsed. 

That happened to me once.


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

mattysupra said:


> could be thrust bearing has collapsed.
> 
> That happened to me once.


That the clutch release bearing? Any idea how I may be able to diagnose or is it gearbox off time to find out?


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

If it where me, I would go underneath while somebody pumps the clutch and check the slave is actually shoving the release arm, If it is, take the box off. if not, you just need to work out which bit of the hydraulic system has gone...

If you find the hydraulics ok, You might be able to remove the slave cylinder, and the rubber boot and shine a torch in at the clutch to see the release bearing, but chances are you wont be able to make a firm diagnostic that way.


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## majestic (May 3, 2010)

I have twin plate clutch thats been on car for 4 years and is quiet xx


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

Clutch pivot in bell housing is known to break. Nismo do a tougher replacement.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

GhostWKD said:


> That the clutch release bearing? Any idea how I may be able to diagnose or is it gearbox off time to find out?




Yes, 

As said below check the clutch arm is being pushed by the slave first. 


I cant remember the exact symptoms on when the bearing failed on mine. I think pedal was light and kept getting stuck at floor. 

I have broken that many clutches tho in the past i cant remember which fault was with which breakage. 

I have a feeling that when the thrust bearing got smashed was the time i twisted a Nismo clutch which shoved the clutch sideways on 


Anyway, if you have a bore Scope or small camera you could get this to have a look in the bell housing ?


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

If the pivot for the fork is broken or the release bearing is broken, there will be play in the fork, thats for sure. As above, get under there, give it a wiggle and get a mate to repeatedly press the pedal for you. The pedal will still move the push rod in and out on the slave cylinder. Get your finger in the gator and you'll be able to feel it.

There's nothing overly complicated about the system down there (says he who had troubles bleeding but don't we all!). If there's a leak, there's only a few places it could be.
Master cylinder (engine bay, bulkhead), main line down to the clutch damper tube manifold and slave cylinder, the damper tube itself (you may not have one) or just the slave cylinder seals. 

Since you're not seeing loss of fluid at the top then i would assume it's not hydraulics as when they go, and after a few tries of the pedal, the system will be empty and there will be absolutely no resistance in the pedal apart from the return spring. I suppose the maser cylinder could somehow be retaining fluid but not sealing, not sure how that would work though!

Since you acknowledged a noise - i would imagine that was a symptom of an approaching failure from within the box unfortunately. If you see no fluid and there's nothing wrong with the pedal mount - its box out i'm afraid.


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks all for your contributions, am hoping tonight or tomorrow to get the car jacked up to take a look at the system and see how it all looks etc...

Would love it to be a hydraulic problem/leak but unfortunately I've pretty much accepted that its going to be a gearbox off job and will probably be either the release bearing or the pivot which is a pain but there we go  

Out of interest TheD - any idea if any play would be normal on the clutch fork at all, ie would I be looking for excessive movement or for any movement?

Thanks again for all your help 

One thing I hadnt thought of until now was that 4th was pretty tough to find before the clutch stopped working all together - not sure if this could be related or not? (Gearbox was a unknown second hand unit - albeit apparently working fine so not sure if might just be the gearbox on this)


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

The release arm should have some free movement yes, All cars do, but the amount varies. You may have to remove the slave cylinder to test it though as that might take all the play out (doesnt take long).

The 4th gear problem could be some wear in the box that was shown up worse for the clutch not working properly, it might be ok once the clutch is done. One thing at a time


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

Marky_GTSt said:


> The release arm should have some free movement yes, All cars do, but the amount varies. You may have to remove the slave cylinder to test it though as that might take all the play out (doesnt take long).
> 
> The 4th gear problem could be some wear in the box that was shown up worse for the clutch not working properly, it might be ok once the clutch is done. One thing at a time


+1. You will know if there is trouble with the fork as if the pivot is somehow damaged, there will more than likely be free play in directions other than just back and forth.

Keep us all posted as to how it goes. :thumbsup: Where are you based?


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

TheD said:


> +1. You will know if there is trouble with the fork as if the pivot is somehow damaged, there will more than likely be free play in directions other than just back and forth.
> 
> Keep us all posted as to how it goes. :thumbsup: Where are you based?


Thanks Marky & TheD

Will keep you all posted with my poor tale of woe no doubt, am in Banbury in Oxfordshire.

Not had a chance to move the car yet as still unsure who's cars have boxed the skyline in and with all the rain dont want to jack it up on grass so may even be until the weekend or whenever these cars are moved 

Hopefully get a look soon though as unless I fix the car asap i'll get disheartened and lose the will to do so


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Hi All,

After months of sulking leaving the car in the garage (and waiting on delivery of nismo clutch pivot & new release bearing - had to order bits from RHDJapan anyway so figured i'd pick up these cheapish bits just incase) - have had the car out today finishing my hicas delete.

Now have looked at the servo/push rod thing, and when clutch is pressed/released its not moving it in the slightest (can physically hold it and not feel any force being applied) - not sure if its meant to either but can move the servo/push rod freely in any direction (small amount of resistance if push it in mind)

Its not losing any fluid or leaking anywhere - if anything its actually gained a little fluid somehow (not sure if it was overfilled when I picked it up after clutch change or not, and its now above the max)

Be really keen to hear peoples thoughts on this - presumably if its hydraulic related its not a box off, in which case I want to get it fixed, insured again and get driving the thing 

Cheers,
Alex


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

So you push on the clutch and nothing on the slave cylinder or fork moves? If you can actually press the clutch down then it's not the box mate. You must have air somewhere.

Just to add, if it were the fork or internals of the box preventing the slave cylinder from moving it then you'd have a hydraulic lock and the pedal would go nowhere.


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

Yep, Sounds very much like hydraulics, Try bleeding it.

Its possible from what you describe that either the slave or master cylinder seal has gone or inverted.


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Cheers for the replies guys - bit confused how the air could have got in though? As it went so suddenly (when driving down dual carriageway, 2nd -> 3rd -> tried for 4th and had no clutch) 

If one of the seals had gone wouldn't there be a loss of fluid (or a lowering of the level at least?) somewhere?

Will look up bleeding it but would've thought if it was straight forward needing bleeding it wouldn't have gone so suddenly after driving for a while with no problems?

Cheers for the help its very much appreciated


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

GhostWKD said:


> Cheers for the replies guys - bit confused how the air could have got in though? As it went so suddenly (when driving down dual carriageway, 2nd -> 3rd -> tried for 4th and had no clutch)
> 
> If one of the seals had gone wouldn't there be a loss of fluid (or a lowering of the level at least?) somewhere?
> 
> ...


If there's no movement detectable downstairs, then it's not anything to do with the box. If its not air stuck in the clutch damping tube and you see no visible sign of fluid leak then something has sheared. Perhaps the slave cylinders push rod or the master cylinders input has gone.


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

I had a car in once that had inverted the seal in the master cylinder, It wasn't losing much fluid but the bit it did lose went into the cab and was soaking into the carpet, The leaking fluid was replaced by air, So no obvious signs of a leak. 

I think you just need to start pulling bits off for inspection, As TheD mentioned though at least it doesn't require the box off.


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## NATEDG (Jul 28, 2010)

Hiya, i have had the problem many times and normally the internal seal in the master cylinder splits at the edge and allows fluid to bypass the piston. You never normally see any external leaks as there is a second seal where the pushrod goes in. 
Pull the master off and pop out the clip and piston and have a look at the seal, you can just replace the seal if the bore hasn't been marked.

Nate


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks for the help guys, plan of action is going to be approx;

- One last check of the pedal end of the setup and make sure i've not missed something stupid like a broken bracket or the pin going from pedal setup to clutch master cylinder (believe this is a pin?)
- Try bleed the setup - if its something other than the push rod end then theoretically it wont bleed anything as wont be getting any pressure in the lines at that end? Could be wrong mind... 
- Depending on above start taking apart the system either at Push rod servo end or at the master cylinder end

Helps very much appreciated though - just hope this isnt something thats a by product of being parked up for a few months (somehow... i'm not very lucky with cars heh) rather than the actual problem i've got


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Celebrations may have been a little premature - just wedged the clutch pedal fully to the floor and it is moving the servo.... Not sure how much pressure the other half was managing to put on the clutch pedal but looks like the problem is inside the box


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

Just get into it mate, You'll soon fix it.


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## rasored (Apr 5, 2009)

GhostWKD said:


> Celebrations may have been a little premature - just wedged the clutch pedal fully to the floor and it is moving the servo.... Not sure how much pressure the other half was managing to put on the clutch pedal but looks like the problem is inside the box



If you have normal pressure in the clutch pedal and you can push to the floor and the slave cylinder push rod dose not move then the prob should be with the master cylinder .
If you can get all gears when engine is off then G/box should be OK .
If you have free play in clutch pedal for more than half the travel and you have a bit of pressure == then loosen of clutch master cylinder bolts so cylinder can move to and fro , then hold cylinder against its small servo and get another to push down on pedal / if the master cylinder dose not move instantly then the problem may be the push rod into the servo !! I had to put a bolt into the push rod to get enough length to operate the Giken twin plate clutch in mine . I had done nothing to it but it was sat for 6 months and confounded me for best part of 3 more months .

JUST A THOUGHT


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

TheD said:


> Just get into it mate, You'll soon fix it.


Would do but if its a gearbox off job think its got to go to a garage as cant see how I can lift it high enough to do the job on the driveway 

Will try get a torch and look into the hole where the arm goes in and see if I can see anything pyshically amiss in there - maybe get a magnetic pickup in there too see if any clues that way... but to be fair think its got to either go to a garage or I need to find a way of lifting the car high heh 



rasored said:


> If you have normal pressure in the clutch pedal and you can push to the floor and the slave cylinder push rod dose not move then the prob should be with the master cylinder .
> If you can get all gears when engine is off then G/box should be OK .
> If you have free play in clutch pedal for more than half the travel and you have a bit of pressure == then loosen of clutch master cylinder bolts so cylinder can move to and fro , then hold cylinder against its small servo and get another to push down on pedal / if the master cylinder dose not move instantly then the problem may be the push rod into the servo !! I had to put a bolt into the push rod to get enough length to operate the Giken twin plate clutch in mine . I had done nothing to it but it was sat for 6 months and confounded me for best part of 3 more months .
> 
> JUST A THOUGHT


Cheers mate, I will definately take a quick look but seems to have plenty of movement on it now, think the other half might've been on the wrong pedal or something bless her heh...


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

A couple of good axle stands for the front and some old wheels for the rear should give you enough room to play about under there.


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Box is off and nothing looks too amiss 

Replaced pivot ball anyway with the nismo item I had and swapped the release bearings over in the carrier - however noticed something about the release bearing and has been mentioned to me that maybe the OE bearing is the wrong one to be using - not sure if this would cause my problem mind?

Pressure plate;









Release bearing (PN 30502-21000);









and how they sit together;









Waiting on a email back from Spec clutches as have been talking to them to check the condition of the clutch and am waiting on their take on the release bearing situ also as have noticed alot of people using part no 30502-14601 which looks alot more suited to the fingers on my clutch but dont know if that will need a different carrier/sleeve for the bearing?

30502-14601 part no;









Shall see what SPEC say and maybe give that second part no bearing a try - then worry about trying to find out what sleeve I need for it if my stock R32 one isnt any good

Edit: Another pic comparing the above 30502-14601 bearing to the one i'm using (also a different sleeve but not a clue which one that is);


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Well emailed Spec about this to see what their take on it would be and had an email back from Spec and they said the below about my email/pics;



> That bearing is fine. Do you have the pressure plate bolted down yet ?
> 
> The fingers move towards the middle. There are two styles of bearings,
> 
> ...


And as it worked with a bearing exactly the same as this one i'm inclined to believe him, but obviously dont want to put everything back together and then just have to take everything apart again 

Ordered a new pivot ball spring just incase its worn too - £3.3x made it easy to just buy and be able to rule out tbh...


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

So decided to take a quick look at the car again this evening, and noticed something very interesting, when the clutch pedal is pressed there's a squeak coming from somewhere... the clutch slave is loose in the bay with the gearbox off so its something in the hydraulic system somewhere i'd imagine... could this be something to do with my problems?

Squeak noise;
R32 GTR clutch squeak - YouTube


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## rasored (Apr 5, 2009)

GhostWKD said:


> So decided to take a quick look at the car again this evening, and noticed something very interesting, when the clutch pedal is pressed there's a squeak coming from somewhere... the clutch slave is loose in the bay with the gearbox off so its something in the hydraulic system somewhere i'd imagine... could this be something to do with my problems?
> 
> Squeak noise;
> R32 GTR clutch squeak - YouTube



you say slave is of box and when you press pedal it squeaks - why has the slave piston not popped out ? cos if not then summert very wrong -- like a split rubber in the master cylinder . happened to mine as well


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Funny you say that, it did after a couple of presses heh 

Think i've decided to put the box back on (new nismo pivot/release bearing too) and then replace the servo (new from nissan) and a braided clutch hose (bypass the dampener too) and see what happens. Although might replace the master cylinder too for peace of mind but depends how much that is heh


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

when the clutch was fitted was the clutch free play set up / checked? 

as in the rod at back of pedal? 

If the rod is not adjusted correctly and to far adjusted (with wear or not locked off it can change itself) it can push the seal in the master cylinder to far. The result is when you press the pedal that the fluid that should get pushed down the clutch line will simply be pushed into the master cylinder rather than down to the clutch slave cylinder. 


Basically it is recirculating in the reservoir rather than getting to the clutch slave. 


Have a look at the rod that is connected to the clutch pedal in footwell. Try adjusting it and see if this makes a difference. You adjust it be slacken of the nut and use pliers on the rod shaft and turn the shaft a couple of turns.


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## NATEDG (Jul 28, 2010)

NATEDG said:


> Hiya, i have had the problem many times and normally the internal seal in the master cylinder splits at the edge and allows fluid to bypass the piston. You never normally see any external leaks as there is a second seal where the pushrod goes in.
> Pull the master off and pop out the clip and piston and have a look at the seal, you can just replace the seal if the bore hasn't been marked.


Just in case you didn't see this post the first time.... Please pull the piston out of the master and check the seal:squintdan


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Did miss that the first time NATEDG - thanks for re-bumping the post  

Have got the hydraulics of the clutch out now, slave looks like its seen better days but looks okish - will probably replace for peace of mind anyway... ordered a braided clutch hose but didnt realise they only replace the stock rubber (had kind of expected to be able to use this to remove the damper) which is a shame - not too sure how to remove the damper now tbh... Currently looking at the master cylinder (or will when I get it off - bit stuck as per my other thread)

Matty - stupidly didnt check that first... but now i've got it all apart will make sure I do when it goes back together...

On the plus side have reassembled the arm etc on the gearbox and that feels so much tighter now with the new bits in there so am filled with a little bit of confidence from that if nothing else


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

So got the master cylinder off and whilst the seal looked fine, there was fluid both sides of it which i'm guessing isnt normal? 

Been doing some more digging around the replacement hose and although HEL describe the one I bought as "A full 1 piece replacement braided clutch line kit" it is just a replacement of the stock rubber hose rather than replacing all of the metal lines too...

Seen various people talking about braided hose to go direct from Clutch Master Cylinder to Slave Cylinder but not too sure where I would go to buy one, or would it be a case of find out the threads/joins needed and then get the hose made up to order? Found that HPI do one and just looks like 2 banjo fittings (presumably M10x1.0 banjo bolts?) with a length of braided hose...


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## rasored (Apr 5, 2009)

Been here ! 
so have others by the sounds 
Now I have the damper and standard metal pipe work - but replaced the rubber Hosing with a braided line . Found it trawling ebay , it was not advertised as R32 but was nissan and looked right .
You could ask Conceptua tuning to custom make 1 , or get them to make a 1 piece if that is what you want , BUT , the damper is there for a reason so I kept it in after having it without !! .
You will be back here asking questions about bleeding the system as well me thinks COS IT CAN BE A S**t . By the sounds your piston rubber has split ( same as many others )

Use a decent fluid in the clutch , forget dot 7.1 like in brakes it was not that good in mine and worse to bleed .

The damper system is fitted to several Nissans and is always hard if you do not see the extra bleed nipple ! and bleed correctly


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