# Santa Pod Sumo



## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

Hi,

Sorry for my late reply but I am not very well at the moment so I will keep it brief.

Firstly thanks to everyone for their support on Sunday, sorry to anyone whom text me and didnt get a reply, I cant text back on my new phone! Thanks for all the emails too 

Just a quick rundown on our cars results direct from the tickets :-

9.93 @ 145.16
10.32 @ 144.28 ( Bogged, f-up launch )
9.86 @ 143.71
9.88 @ 145.24
9.68 @ 146.21
9.75 @ 146.59

We did 6 runs total as above ( in order of running ), flat out, gave it everything as intended, same set up every run. Boost set to 3bar so it couldnt max out, turbos blowing for everything.

All runs done using the new Toyo 555R tyre and no nitrous at all, all turbo power. When we run 9.68 a couple of weeks back that was on slicks but on Sunday we matched the time exactly using the street legal Toyo's.

Thanks to :-

HKS Europe
HKS Japan
Do-Luck
GT ART
Keiichi
Tomei Powered
Toyo Tyres UK/USA/Japan
SVS/Alcon
Rob
Matt
Mario...
And everyone else who made us something or helped us in any way to achieve consistent 9 second passes this time out.

Well done to everyone else on the day and their results. A new best performance for Ron Kidell @ 10.2 I think.

Loved the shootout, one of my reaction times was 0.06!

For anyone who watched me bounce the limiter at any time, the limiter is set at 9500rpms - 9500rpms, 2.2bar of boost! 

Hope everyone else enjoyed the day as much as us lot.

Cheers to Gary for giving us an engine that took the pressure and gave us good solid repeatable power using HKS F Con V Pro management.

I am off to go back to bed and sleep!

Cheers all, see you next time..

Andy


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## Hope4Sun (Jul 28, 2003)

Get well soon mate, good result  and a good day for all attedening in one way or another...

Andy


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## vennuth (Aug 2, 2001)

That's some superb times there, congratulaions 

Question is, why are you retiring her?!

Rob


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## kirbz (Nov 13, 2003)

Amazing car was the highlight of the day 

Kirbz


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## sexy beast (Jul 25, 2003)

I saw a programme on TV (channel 5?) last night about 'speed'; Jenson Button did a 1/4 mile drag in 9.6 secs driving a 900bhp Honda F1 car. When I saw it I thought "F-me! The Sumo R34 does that!!"

Bloody Hell Andy - you're up there with the F1 boys! Awesome...


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## Alan (Jul 1, 2001)

Excellent Andy, Glad it stayed together  Good luck for future events, just a shame I could not make it.

Best regards Alan


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## hipogtr (Feb 17, 2002)

Congrats on the great times, Andy. Very consistent - clearly a quality setup and good driving coming together. :smokin: 

Cya O!


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

I spotted some Hauser Racing folks in the SumoPower paddock 

Fair play mate


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

Brilliant results Andy.
Well done on the achievement. :smokin:


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

Great result Andy - no one seems to be close to your reaction times!


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## kenan (Apr 29, 2003)

Yeah had a great day and was fantastic to watch you in action in your car. Never really seen any quick skyline in the 'flesh' as it were but to see your going so well was awesome, so thank you

Kenan


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## gertmuppet (Oct 17, 2003)

Andy Barnes said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sorry for my late reply but I am not very well at the moment so I will keep it brief.
> 
> ...



sorry to hear this, but if i had the balls to achieve what you did on sunday i would have the shits for a week, a fantastic effort consistantly bourne out, again well done we're not worthy we're not worthy (in the manner of wayne & garth) get well soon andy


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## Dan_BlitzedS14 (Sep 23, 2001)

Yep,



































indeed :smokin: 

Good to see you again Andy, say hi to Mark too, nice to finally meet him after all this time chatting on the blower


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## gtsm (Jan 14, 2002)

Was great weekend bit cold but well worth getting cold for 
well done on times you got there in end,car looked awesome on start line
and snaking down strip 

well done 

lee


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## demondiablo (Sep 10, 2003)

andy job well done mate and get well soon


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## Nick MW (Aug 15, 2003)

An amazing show Andy - really was the highlight of the day :smokin:


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

Congratulations Andy. Always a pleasure to see your wonderful car and good to see you and Rob again.
See you at the track sometime next year


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

Well done that man. I don't think that it is just the times that is special, it is how consistent you are. Always the showman, I think you did Sumo Power and skylines a big favour. Good publicity.
Time to treat yourself to a good haircut and shave lol. Go bald for charity?
 
I still feel a bit sorry for Gary. He puts the effort into yours and his cars and never seems to be rewarded like you are. Needs to nobble your car a bit


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## gary (Aug 19, 2001)

*Dave*

Dont feel sorry for me,
I GET PAID


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

gary said:


> Dont feel sorry for me,
> I GET PAID


Class


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

Feeling sorry retracted


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Id love know what Hauser Racing have done to your car, as noticed DannyB in your Pit area, as thatd partly explain the consistant awesomeness of the launches etc.

But im sure you wont say, and im sure Hauser have all been sworn to secrecy too!

Ladderbar drag rear end with mustang derived live axle? Drag adjustable centerfugal clutch?  I doubt either but comeon im grasping at straws here, lol

Whatever was done, fair play to you all :smokin:

PS- What size tyres were they? I forgot to look/ask.


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## RonS (Dec 14, 2001)

Yes a BIG well done Andy mate :smokin: .. as Dave said very consistant, proves practice makes perfect 

Bad luck again Gary.. just what is it with you and gearboxes eh!!  

RonS


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Steve1*



SteveN said:


> Id love know what Hauser Racing have done to your car, as noticed DannyB in your Pit area, as thatd partly explain the consistant awesomeness of the launches etc.
> 
> But im sure you wont say, and im sure Hauser have all been sworn to secrecy too!
> 
> ...


In my haste to go home i forgot to publically thank Geof and Danny, thanks guys.
Running a GTR with 4link etc is not a GTR, that would be too easy. Please try to accept the fact we engineered the car to perform as a true GTR and with stock Attesa.
As for tyre size, i got it wrong 3 times before i got it right, when you build your car, you can find out for yourself 

Cheers,

Andy

Ps. Hauser are involved as, as per usual for the right result you need help from people whom know what they are talking about.


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## Harry_w (Oct 13, 2004)

I must say this was a pleasure watching SUMO's car belt up the strip, i have to congratulate the whole team,The most shocking thing is when the car launched the front 2 wheels left the track   

Well done
Harry


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Harry_w said:


> The most shocking thing is when the car launched the front 2 wheels left the track


You sure you wasnt watching that old blue Stingray? lol  

Did it tho? Fair play, thats some going :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:


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## vennuth (Aug 2, 2001)

I need to see a video/pics of that!!!!


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## Harry_w (Oct 13, 2004)

vennuth said:


> I need to see a video/pics of that!!!!


they did leave the track only a tiny bit like 1/2 a foot,but by christ it don't half leap  

mind you what do you expect with that sort of power  

Harry


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## Booty-licious (Nov 8, 2001)

The SANTA POD show goes out on *fri 23dr Oct 23:00 on ITV*

Just to let you know

Claire


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## Tim (Jan 6, 2003)

Andy Barnes said:


> As for tyre size, i got it wrong 3 times before i got it right, when you build your car, you can find out for yourself QUOTE]
> 
> I made a note of the size


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Booty-licious said:


> The SANTA POD show goes out on *fri 23dr Oct 23:00 on ITV*
> 
> Just to let you know
> 
> Claire




erm


which year?


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## johnnyTightlips (Jun 17, 2003)

ahahah tim u sneaky git


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## Booty-licious (Nov 8, 2001)

Mookistar said:


> erm
> 
> 
> which year?


Yes I know!!! Am checking with ITV...watch this space okay!


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

sorry 

i posted it here, then on the other thread.

Mookipatient


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## Fast Guy (Jan 26, 2003)

Sumo's 9.68 run This is the shortened version, ie all the pre run stuff (1min 34s of it  ) edited out


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## johnnyTightlips (Jun 17, 2003)

that video is very intresting, from wat the camera shows, it looks like andy only made the extra distance on the start line, who's is the other car?


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## Alex j B (Apr 24, 2004)

That'll be Rocket Ronnie!

Alex B


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

As i've mentioned on another thread ... Ronnie was getting terminals very similar to Andy's ... I saw Ron get 140+ terminals. From what I saw of Ronnies runs, he wasn't getting the car off the line as effectively as ususal, had he done so, I believe he would also have run a 9 second pass.

Now i'm back from Birmingham i'll have to go through my video footage from the day.


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

Fast Guy said:


> Sumo's 9.68 run This is the shortened version, ie all the pre run stuff (1min 34s of it  ) edited out


Do you have the un-edited version.


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## Alex j B (Apr 24, 2004)

Not trying to start an argument, but why does everyone think Rocket Ronnie is so unbeatable? As far as I can remember he has never run a 9sec 1/4, so why would he be able to just cos Andy has?

Not having a go, I have a massive respect for Ronnies car and the fact he drives it to and from events!

Alex B


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## Harvey (Aug 22, 2004)

Fantastic result and very consistent. Enjoy the satisfaction of having done it. Well done.


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## johnnyTightlips (Jun 17, 2003)

well the facts say that ronnie should be able to get a 9, watch the video urself and its quite clear that andys care leaps forward a fair few feat off the line, and from there nothing much chnages.( all from the view of the video ofcors)


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## Fast Guy (Jan 26, 2003)

JasonO said:


> Do you have the un-edited version.



I can do it easy enough, BUT not sure how big it'll be and I only have my brothers ntl free web space left . I'll have a quick look and see


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Alex B ... No-one is trying to say Ronnie's car is unbeatable.

What people have noticed though is that with a perfect launch, there is no reason that Ronnies car cannot get a 9 second pass ... because it is able to obtain the same terminal speeds as cars that HAVE run 9 second passes.


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## Fast Guy (Jan 26, 2003)

It's 18meg and it's uploading now, but it'll take a few mins at 30KBps. I'll leave it on for a couple of days as it's using all my space, so if anyone wants to download it and rehost it (cough andy maybe) feel free. I'll add the link when it's done.

 Full 9.68 here Save it while you can, cos it won't be there too long.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Daz said:


> Alex B ... No-one is trying to say Ronnie's car is unbeatable.
> 
> What people have noticed though is that with a perfect launch, there is no reason that Ronnies car cannot get a 9 second pass ... because it is able to obtain the same terminal speeds as cars that HAVE run 9 second passes.


stick Ron Kiddel in it and let him have a go  He was brutal off the line.  

lol

very impressive car rockets. When i told my fiance he'd driven it there, she couldn't believe it...


... then she insisted we tune ours that hard.

lol

mook


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## slippyr4 (May 2, 2002)

Fantastic day out, but i was very dissapointed not to see andy's usual tire warmup technique of a 300 yard burnout up the strip followed my a quick reverse at mach 8. That's fun to watch.

well done andy!


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Great result Andy,

I have been so busy at work have hardly been on here at all. Nice to see all the hard work and truck loads of cash finally giving you a result that is unquestionable.

It just goes to prove what a few people here have been saying - its not just power, but how you put it down that counts. Personally i wouldnt want my car to be just a one trick drag pony, and I havent got the cash you have to keep completely changing setups if I wanted it back as a roadcar, but it is great to show just what is acheivable here in the UK.

As for the questions about the Rocket, I guess Glen or Mark are the two best people to speak to, but he has about as much power as Andy, he has the same sort of terminals as Andy, he's got a sequential and knows how to use it so can just about keep up with Andy (see the video for proof) he just has a lot more weight and interior than Andy does (I mean the guys got a full interior AND a rollcage - nutter !!) and doesnt/cant have the same setup for launching due to him using the car as a full on road and track car.

Oh, and Mr Barnes is ALOT more handsome, and thats gotta be worth a tenth surely !!! pmsl

J.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

bladerider said:


> It just goes to prove what a few people here have been saying - its not just power, but how you put it down that counts.


Not wishing to take anything away from Andy; Sunday was a series of fantastic performances and I know how hard he has worked to get the car to where it is. He deserves a lot of respect for the amount of time, money and effort that has gone into making that car what it is.

I know Andy was disappointed at what happend to Ron in the final and would have loved to have a good, straight race. Ron worked really hard to get his car in the best condition for the show and deserved better than to have it fail in the final.

- Back to Bladey's point: Look at the picture. Ron got a great launch or maybe better reactions. Whatever, it shows that there are a lot of talented Skyline drivers here and there are a lot of very wll put together cars.


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Times*



johnnyTightlips said:


> well the facts say that ronnie should be able to get a 9, watch the video urself and its quite clear that andys care leaps forward a fair few feat off the line, and from there nothing much chnages.( all from the view of the video ofcors)


Hi,

Drag racing is about the start. If you dont get the start right forget it, its all over. As many saw on Sunday, we are running the same power as we did last year ( as we have the same terminal speeds ) however we spent the last couple of months setting up the car to launch better. It may be possible to say that a car ( such as Ronnies ) that pulls 10's could pull 9's if it got a better launch however, this is where the knowledge and skill lays you see. It is not easy to make the car do what it does and if nothing else it has shown that there is more to drag racing than power. Some of the cars on Sunday should be able to pull a 9 second pass however they never will if they are not set up to do so no matter how good the driver is. The last couple of months was not in the seat practice for me, it was car setup in the workshop.

Our car launches and runs as hard as it does as we have investigated, spent time and researched things to make it do it, its not fluke. We have engineered the car to hold together and react in a way which makes it easier to achieve consistent results. In the past people have plagued me about what we get upto with the car and in some cases laughed us off as not really knowing what we are doing - well, whilst they were all doing that, we were keeping busy with ideas and research, the result of which has now meant everyone else is 1 year behind us - we ran 10.2 a year ago, now we run 9.6.

The annoying thing about all this is that the car as it sat on Sunday had all these bits last year but we didnt have time to fit and check them all out. If we did we would have run 9's in the same way last year and maybe this year low 9's. Contrary to what has been said earlier, this year I actually didnt spend any further money on the car to get this result, only on a day at the dyno and a refresh of the engine. All parts used were either installed last year or used for the first time this year. The cost to run to 9.6 for this year was about £3000 more from last years spec, half of which was dyno time.

Also to confirm a comment about my run against Ronnie, here are the timing figures for this run showing my times and Rons. You will see that from the green light, I accelerated away from him from the start, half track and finish :

Point Ronnie Andy
RT 0.588 0.389
60FT 1.754 1.674
330FT 4.635 4.288
1/8ET 6.894 6.387
1/8 MPH 111.10 122.25
1000' ET 8.746 8.136
1/4 ET 10.394 9.681
1/4 MPH 137.24 146.21

Was an awesome headsup competition, me and Ronnie had a laugh at end of the track, both loved it. As for Ron Kidell's final run, it was a shame his gearbox failed however its fair to say I doubt very much he would have run less that 9.75 lets be honest : Power is nothing without reliability!

Once again well done to everyone else, last year there was a stack of cars in the 11's, now there is a stack in the 10's, its all moving in the right direction, hopefully with the help and formation of the IDC we can help the whole movement forward, accomodating not just the quickest but also the bracket's quickest cars.

One other thing I would like to mention is : I have nothing at all against NOS whatsoever as its great however I would like to mention that we never used it as we dont need it just yet however most of the other Pro cars had it installed and were using it. This makes me quite proud as we made the win and times on turbo power and using the piddly 2835's! - I think the development of what can be achieved with this engine setup has been almost finalised, Gary is confident there is more to be had now he has his own F CON facilities and he can finally play around with the F CON V Pro on a regular basis instead of twice a year for a day ( how my car was done ) however for my car its the end of the road for development with 2835's, I guess this aspect ( F Con ) should be rather exciting for any other customers of Garys, the future results should be good  - I think he is allowed a cheeky advert plug for his efforts  

Rock and roll, 9 POINT FCKIN 6!! WHOOOHOOO

Dirk.


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## Lee_Pendlebury (Nov 18, 2001)

Andy Barnes said:


> Point Ronnie Andy
> RT 0.588 0.389


Not taking anything away from the times wich obviously speak for themselves, but I was under the impression that anything under 0.4 was an illegal reaction time?

Cheers
Lee


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## kenan (Apr 29, 2003)

Andy Barnes said:


> Rock and roll, 9 POINT FCKIN 6!! WHOOOHOOOQUOTE]
> 
> Yeah, felt good watching you do it as well
> 
> Any chance you could advise a mere mortal like me how to launch a car correctly as I wish to run my stage 1 (ish) 33 GTR at Santa Pod next year


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

Lee_Pendlebury said:


> Not taking anything away from the times wich obviously speak for themselves, but I was under the impression that anything under 0.4 was an illegal reaction time?
> 
> Cheers
> Lee


Not "illegal", just means he went before seeing the green - there's a 0.4 second delay (I think) at Santa Pod between the last amber light and the green coming on, so the "perfect" reaction time would be 0.4 seconds.

Phil


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Drag-racing is all about the launch, thats why the yanks cars run low times, but also low speeds. They have less power but often run much better ETs.

There were plenty of cars at the Pod that ran a second or more off what they should be running, as they ran the wrong tires, the wrong suspension and the wrong general set-up for a drag-race.

Andy is the first person with a GTR to recognise this and employ the services of someone with drag-racing experience, rather than just relying on engine building to win the day.

Drag = power + power deployment


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

I think Santa Pod now deduct the 0.4 seconds from the reported reaction time, so a perfect time is 0.000. I recall them saying over the speakers that someone ran a 0.000 that day (though it was no special car that I recall).

Guy


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

One thing i noticed all day was when they was lining the cars up, it was far from correct quite often, esp when the young lad was doing it, he couldnt give a toss.

Going by the markings on the track, often one of the cars would be staged about 2 foot in front of the other.

A few times someone either ran over the line so much, or wasnt close enough, that only one of the 2 orange staging lights was lit and they still let em go and they still clocked a time.


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

Well weight is something Ronnie is always been fighting against due to him wanting a proper street car thats driven to and from events and also can hustle on a trackday, or take him on runs to Europe. He appreciates he's never going to run a 9 sec 1/4 with the car weighing in at a hefty 1705, yes 1705kg, but was prepared to see what the fastest was he could run. I take me hat of to him for keeping the faith with what a Skyline was truly built for.

It goes without saying that any 9 sec 1/4 car isn't basically worth a w4nk on the road but if all your interested in is 440yds then thats OK. Banrnsey ran a true 9 at last which was cool but far from unexpected. Where Ronnie comes from is a desire to keep true to his wishes so a comparison between the two cars is quite unfair really. If a comparison need giving then I was very impressed that Rons fastest terminal was only 3 mph behind Andys which just goes to show that all the development Ronnie and AbbeyMotorsport have put into building a phenomenal road car works perfectly when it can near as dammnit match a full on drag car for terminals. Hats off to AbbeyMotorsport for advancing the potential of true road going Skylines which is basically what 99% of the guys drive anyway.

Very nice to see a Skyline in the 9's and to be honest I'm not suprised as it's amazing what advances can be found in a years worth of hard graft, as Barnsey has found out, and with the addition of Geoff Hausers many many years of drag experience it would have been a shame to have run anything less.

Damn shame for Mr.Kiddell in the final though.

Glen


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Drag*

Hi,

Times.

In the past a rule existed that if you RT'd below 0.400 then you red light, this doesnt exist any further and therefore anything further than 0.00 is fine.

Staging : The technique of drag racing is upto the driver. If you decide to shallow or deep stage, thats your option however if you dont know what the difference is and you stage a distance behind or in front of the opposite lane then clearly you should check the internet for drag information as this may help you alot as there are gains to be made here too.

As for Ronnies car etc, yep Glen we all know, its old ground you are covering there, let it be 

Also as Geof Hauser has been mentioned here again ( BTW Glen, his name is spelt Geof, not Geoff ), I would like to clarify what Geof has been involved with. We sought Geof's advice regarding tyres. Geof's experience in drag racing is quite clearly vast as is Guy Chambo's and as we had never used slicks or indeed high walled drag radials, we didnt know too much about how to run them, enter Geof and Danny to give some helpful advice. So far I have had a couple of people mention to me that Hauser must have done something to our car as we are running the times however I can confirm that this is not the case, they are simply helping us regarding the tyres for the R34 and some helpful critisisms regarding the suspension settings whilst we were testing the other week. I have no problem with asking people for advice and no problem telling people that we do ask third parties, my advice to dispense on this subject is that if you do this, just make sure the person you are asking advice from actually knows the answer .

If you go to Santa Pod, you go to Drag race, if you dont care to install parts or lose weight to race then thats fine however dont use it as an excuse as to why you dont run the numbers. We put effort into making the car run the 1/4, simple, within a half day its back on the road and parked up at Tesco's if need be. Its effort and a pain in the ass to do each time but we like winning and to do that you need extraordinary amounts of effort, effort which we have installed this time around to a marvelous end result.

I think everyone did well for what they set out to achieve, Ronnie included, end of.


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Run*



kenan said:


> Andy Barnes said:
> 
> 
> > Any chance you could advise a mere mortal like me how to launch a car correctly as I wish to run my stage 1 (ish) 33 GTR at Santa Pod next year
> ...


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Andy,

Can you confirm or deny that you had any assistance in the use of the clutch on the car?

Paul


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

Andy Barnes said:


> critisisms regarding the suspension settings


I think you'll find that it's criticisms  , class  .

And I think Barnsey you'll find a lot of feet on the ground people are actually interested in the performance of a true road going Skyline as opposed to the one hit wonder of a drag car that requires transforming to be semi-road useable.

Yawn.

Glen


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## Jabberwock (Jun 24, 2003)

That semi-final between Andy and Ronnie was a classic. Two great cars with perhaps a slightly different approach. Regardless of the differences, the staging game was fascinating to watch and ended with staggering run from both cars. 

From a spectator's point of view it was fantastic entertainment.


Ken.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Andy, or anyone else, considering Rocket was running 1750kg, what sort of weight is the sumo power car??

and do we know BHP on them both?

i'm just curious as to the numbers involved

ta

mook


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Power for both cars is very similar,

Around the 800bhp mark for both, maybe a tad more for Andy, maybe a tad less for Ron.



Andy Barnes said:


> You will see that from the green light, I accelerated away from him from the start, half track and finish :
> 
> Point Ronnie Andy
> RT 0.588 0.389
> ...


You can see what kind of a difference the weight and setup/tyres made Mook, once up and running Andy is gaining about one tenth of a second every 110yards, which isnt a vast amount in real world terms (between 330yards distance and the full quarter mile - 440yards - Andy gained maybe another 15feet lead), but obviously in stopwatchland it means a great deal.

Hope that helps show the determination Andy has for improvements - a years effort for 0.6seconds is dedication to be sure.

J.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Bladey, with the Nitrous etc id say Ronnie is WAY over 800bhp now, with 140mph terminals with 1700kg hes gotta be.
0.6 secs is pretty fookin good for the very minor changes he says hes made, certainly not a years worth of effort, couldve been all done in a day TBH if thats all hes done... (Exhaust, Wheels/Tyres, More Boost, Minor susp changes)

Still cant belive DannyB and Geof was there "just" for tyre help, whyd they need to be there if it was only tyre advice? 

No doubt Andy is king of the 1/4 at mo tho, 9.6 is craaazy quick :smokin:


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## Dan_BlitzedS14 (Sep 23, 2001)

I guess those guys would be there on hand to see the car run themselves and witness the gain their advice has given Andy. I know I'd want to be there to see it first hand


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## MarioGTR (Jul 8, 2001)

*Well done mate, it took you long enough! *

Andy, you deserve congratulations on achieving the first official and backed up 9 second pass (actually, make that series of) for a 4WD car in the UK and Europe. 

Let's not forget, it was also achieved in a car that was bought and fully built in the UK, not some ring-in import that was set-up and campaigned previously in Japan.

It's a shame that you will retire the car. We know that if you ran it once more (this time with a hit of the giggle gas that your competitors need to still lose to you) - you could well show the UK its first 8 second pass in a GTR...

BTW: Loved the flashed hazard lights to Ronnie on the video, true class... Hehe. 

Mario.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Guy said:


> I think Santa Pod now deduct the 0.4 seconds from the reported reaction time, so a perfect time is 0.000. I recall them saying over the speakers that someone ran a 0.000 that day (though it was no special car that I recall).


Little drag racing education from the US.

On a "Pro" tree. Where all the ambers flash and then green the perfect reaction time used to be a 0.400. On a Sportsman tree, where you get one amber at a time and then green, the perfect reaction time was 0.500

The new christmas trees (starting lights) are LED (light emitting diode) and go off a perfect reaction time being 0.000. This is fairly new even here in the states.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Andy Barnes said:


> Point Ronnie Andy
> RT 0.588 0.389
> 60FT 1.754 1.674
> 330FT 4.635 4.288
> ...


Reaction times, in a single dont mean anything. This however was a race, so the reaction time does mean something. You can see just from the reaction time Andy was 0.2 out on Ronnie before Ronnie tripped the lights.

Honestly a 1.67 60 foot is not that impressive. Its ok, but a 9 second car should be quiet a bit faster. Every tenth of a second here is 0.2 at the big end. The dynamics of launching an AWD car are not really fully understood. Also launching a stickshift AWD car is difficult. If you want to go really fast, put an auto tranny in it.

A 6.3 @ 122 1/8th is huge. I think its a good indication that the power is tapering off going down the track. The turbos really are maxed out.

By the end of the track Andy was about 0.9 out in front of Ronnies car.

Marcs Skyline got beaten soundly by a Supra that did a 1.56 60 foot on 18" drag radials last week. Marc ran a 12.0 @ 132 . The Supra ran a 10.2 @ 123.

http://www.styleandspeed.com/20lbbooster/Duy.wmv
http://www.houston-imports.com/users/euro/neild/showdown.wmv

Some Supra times, mods, splits. You might find it interesting .

http://www.t72supra.com/Sideways.htm


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

MarioGTR said:


> Let's not forget, it was also achieved in a car that was bought and fully built in the UK, not some ring-in import that was set-up and campaigned previously in Japan.


light the blue touch paper and run.........


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Dan- So you dont think they was there on the private day the week before when he first ran a 9.6?


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Runs*

Glen : Whatever, find yourself a small room and argue with yourself as no one else is interested 

Mookistar : My car weighs 1650kilos, The R34 is a heavy car, although we removed some interior parts and the stock tailgate, its not a lot removed, considering the parts we have installed such as the Do-Luck cage and a bodykit etc so we removed what we could but only things which bolt straight back in again.

SteveN : 0.6 for a years effort, if you intend on giving me $hit about my adventures at least be kind enough to read my posts instead of extracting parts to dig up to suit. I spent 2 months prior to the event to get the car ready to run again, not a year. As for Geof and Danny, please sit at home and think of as many ways as you like that they may have helped if it makes you feel better, why ask me questions if you have your own answers. Quizzing me over the forum about my car is fun but I gave you the opportunity to come and speak to me on Sunday and I would have been glad to clear up whatever you would like to know, indeed you could have asked Geof questions too I guess, instead you obviously came over, had a shifty about and went home to your PC, if you are interested in knowing things about the car, why not come over a say hello. 

Dan Blitz : Yes, Correct.

Mario : Enters the room with size 10 Doc Martins as usual! Cheers, Shame you wasnt there, we had to buy a new mascot 

Sean : Yes you are right the 60ft time isnt that impressive and just goes to show that if we can run 9.6 with this 60', what it would be with a 1.42 which we had three weeks ago ( although this was on slicks ). More time needed to get the car off the line, time which has now passed   As I mentioned before, the turbos are at the limit, they have nothing more to give, we could have gone bigger but why, at least this way we found the maximum for them and we didnt need any further power anyway. If nothing else it still shows that of all the cars there on Sunday in the RWYB and Pro comp, we have the most power, regardless of dynos, printouts and Gas that other guys have. 

The black dyno never lies, 147mph without gas.

The car is going to run 1 more time, more details to follow when I can confirm the info.

Andy


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Video*

Here is one of my videos from Santa Pod three weeks ago.

It shows the outside and incar footage of the R34.

Please right click and save target as, download to your hearts content :-

Sumo Power R34 GTR ' Ichiban ' 9.68 Drag Run : Santa Pod 24.09.04 

Enjoy!

Andy

More videos will be uploaded directly to our website shortly as well as at www.exvitermini.com c/o Mario.


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## Fast Guy (Jan 26, 2003)

Andy, if you want to put my 18Meg vid on your site feel free, I won't be keeping it on my web space too much longer as it's using alot of my space up.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Andy Barnes said:


> SteveN : 0.6 for a years effort, if you intend on giving me $hit about my adventures at least be kind enough to read my posts instead of extracting parts to dig up to suit.


Err Andy, pmsl.... 

I was sticking up for you...

Bladey said somthing along the lines of "0.6 seconds isnt much for a years worth of effort" and i was saying the changes you made were bloody effectyive to get 0.6secs off as they were relativley minor (tho well thought out) changes and not the year of solid effort that bladey seemed to be saying...

You have a knack of thinking my posts are offencive when in fact i was backing you up, lol...


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## emicen (Sep 4, 2003)

Andy -







- Mario. 

Can I be the first to say









Who has the fastest car out of Ronnie and Andy? Ronnie, simple. Why? Because Ronnies car is day to day driveable. I dont care if it "only" takes half a day to transform, it still requires a transoformation to get Andy's car back to road driveable spec, and for those of us not akin to Daddy Warbucks in the old financial department, this is an unrealistic propostion.

In conclusion, woohoo for the £1??,??? R34 running a 9sec pass


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Credit where credit's due, Andy didn't just talk the talk, and for a change  he isn't the one doing the most talking now. It is a REAL shame Ron K's car didn't make the whole of the final, as I believe he had a little in reserve, but that's racing.

I would be very careful in assuming that just because a car runs well on the strip it means its a dog on the road. With the right setup, a good road car need only a wheel/tyre change to make it a very effective tool on the 1/4 mile.

I will be very interested to see how Sumo get on with their GC8 impreza when that gets built and wheeled out. Us lads with our agricultural vehicles will have some competition it would seems!

Paul


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## emicen (Sep 4, 2003)

Pavlo said:


> I would be very careful in assuming that just because a car runs well on the strip it means its a dog on the road. With the right setup, a good road car need only a wheel/tyre change to make it a very effective tool on the 1/4 mile.


It was already stated by Andy that it requires typically half a day to transform his car from one spec to the other. Given half a day as 1/2 a 9-5 that'd be 4 hrs work. Thats more than a change of wheels and tyres, if not I'll happily do it for half the money in 1/4 the time.


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Post*

Emicen, Mate, Ive seen Mario's ass and I can tell you you wouldnt want to kiss it, its attached to a big Ozzie undesirable for a start 

Pavlo, Cheers. The GC8 should be fun, we dont know what to do with it yet, its in the workshop waiting to be pulled apart but we dont want to start it until we have an on-paper plan for it. My guess so far is a new demo car of course, high horsepower but anymore than that we dont know, maybe circuit, maybe drag, this is the crossroad decision we are faced with currently. You have one do you? We bought it cos it came up so cheap but have been stumpted since as to what to do with the car, its a right old dog at the moment, type RA with a tractor engine, pistons made of lead it seems 

FastGuy : Yes I can host it, can you put it on a CD and post to me? my address is here : www.sumopower.com - cheers mate.

Andy


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Just so you dont make the same mistake again,



bladerider said:


> Hope that helps show the determination Andy has for improvements - a years effort for 0.6seconds is dedication to be sure.
> 
> J.



THATS what I said, not 



SteveN said:


> Bladey said somthing along the lines of "0.6 seconds isnt much for a years worth of effort".



Make sure of your facts before you misquote me again. I say what I mean and seldom leave any ambiguity in my posts except for humour. Dont bother trying to read between my lines, as the only people who can are those that know me well and there are only a handful of people on here that do - yourself not included. Andy knows me, knows that I am sincere, and knows that *IF* I ever have a gentle windup it is for a bunch of reasons, some you may think you know, some you probably dont unless you have a tap on my phone and listen in on the phonecalls I have with Andy. Whilst I often dont agree with him, or approve of some of his self promoting or propaganda he knows for sure that he has my respect.

Mario is a different matter     

End of lecture.

J.


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## emicen (Sep 4, 2003)

Andy Barnes said:


> Emicen, Mate, Ive seen Mario's ass and I can tell you you wouldnt want to kiss it, its attached to a big Ozzie undesirable for a start
> 
> Andy


That would be why I indicated he was kissing your ****, although I imagine he does have a lot of respect for you, you spend shit loads of cash on a Skyline _and_ actually drive it _yourself_ up the strip  

I thought he was a kiwi?

I dont see how people say jealousy is a terrible thing, its not like I'm synical and cheeky to anyone that can afford to drop £100k+ in to a drag project when I cant  Hows your brothers Evo doing btw?


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## GeorgeBush (Feb 27, 2004)

I would but your car James, definitely. But it'd take the majority of people of here to do their next mortgage via myself for me to get the cash. That's not a hint or a plug for business just a jovial, if true, remark. Gonna be getting some PAID FOR advertising on here soon.


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Kiwi*

Emicen,

Nah he is an Ozzie, he wishes he was a Kiwi  Whilst on numerous occasions he has attempted to kiss my beautiful rear, I declined everytime being an English Gent 

Running a car such as his at those times and speeds requires the following :-

No fear of death
A level of skill
An air of stupidity about your person

Unfortunately for Mario he possesses none of these requirements to drive his own car, two of them he agrees with however the ' skill ' he disagrees with which I tend to disagree with  After all, its hard for an Ozzie to hold the wheel, change gear and drink Fosters at the same time, somethings got to give and with Mario its the driving 

Robs Evo is fine, we are mostly using it for trackdays these days as well as on the road of course, its time on the dragstrip was shortlived as it was never intended to perform well as such. We finally got some Do-Luck Double Six wheels to fit Evo's now though and it looks awesome.


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## MattPayne (Apr 11, 2002)

a bit belated, but well done andy...  each time your car goes out, it gets faster  top stuff


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Emicem,

The transformation will dependon the car, I am guessing tha Andy changed the brakes too, to enable the small wheels, and probably the suspension to something softer. but there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Besides, it wasn't a competition for "easy to drive pure road cars" was it? And that is just the sort of discussion that will be taking place next year when we can some of the racing a little more fair.

Paul


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

Andy Barnes said:


> Glen : Whatever, find yourself a small room and argue with yourself as no one else is interested


Barnsey, your a saddo mate, ta ta.

Glen


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Mildly related... 

I got no problem removing seats and changing wheels (ie what andy does to drag) but dont like all this using race fuel bollocks just to run any real power (ie what bloody everyone in the skyline world seems to).

People say "Well mines a road car, Andys isnt", well thats utter bollocks, if your car cant run anywhere near full power without race fuel then its no road car, its drivable on the road sure, but you cant use it properly.

Nitrous, removing back seats, wacking on some drag tyres (esp if roadlegal, but not that fussed if not as long as dont try to compare to cars running roadlegal tyres), its all fair game IMO, but i really dont like the use of race fuel on a claimed road car...


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## Bikerboy (Oct 16, 2004)

I guess you could run both fuels with two tanks and switch to go from race fuel to super unleaded could you?
Does Ronnies road car only use pump gas than?


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Nah mate, Ronnie uses race fuel, everyone does.

They jus drain the tank and lines and put the race fuel in on everyone ive seen.


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## Bikerboy (Oct 16, 2004)

Its tough when it gets real competitive to draw a line between whats road legal and whats not.I guess being able to get to the meet under its own steam running all day and driving home is good.But swapping fuels and wheels etc starts to get a little bit serious I suppose if its within the class rules to do so its OK clear and simple.
I don't know Ronnies plans but I bet someone else will turn up next year with a car with similar specs to Andy's


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

SteveN said:


> Nah mate, Ronnie uses race fuel, everyone does.


Everyone thats interested in the continued survival of their engine does 

Ronnies car is actually only mapped on 97 pump fuel so it does not really capitalise on the potential gains from 106 octane fuel, we use the good stuff to ensure that it drives home, as Andy will confirm, power is no use without reliability. And once Mr. N20 bottle and 1.6/1.7 bar boost get involved in the equation, its only sensible to use a decent fuel that is over-rated for the task being asked of it (ie. Running ignition maps that are setup for 97).

For what the engines cost, versus how much decent quality fuel costs, you'd be a prat not to run good quality fuel on the day. Just for the sake of your pistons...


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Andy Barnes said:


> Sean : Yes you are right the 60ft time isnt that impressive and just goes to show that if we can run 9.6 with this 60', what it would be with a 1.42 which we had three weeks ago ( although this was on slicks ). More time needed to get the car off the line, time which has now passed   As I mentioned before, the turbos are at the limit, they have nothing more to give, we could have gone bigger but why, at least this way we found the maximum for them and we didnt need any further power anyway. If nothing else it still shows that of all the cars there on Sunday in the RWYB and Pro comp, we have the most power, regardless of dynos, printouts and Gas that other guys have.
> 
> The black dyno never lies, 147mph without gas.


The 1.42 is impressive for an awd car.

So you are happy with the 9.6 with this car, but you are building an R33 right ?

9.6 for a street car/ streetable car. The guys can sit on the wall and make up every excuse. You are going to hear them all. They can't get close, so they will come up with something.

Race fuel. I can get C16 for $8.00 a gallon here. Thats 117PON octane leaded race gas. 91PON octane for $2.40 a gallon. Normal cruising, I keep the boost down, and run pump gas. When I get serious, street racing, drag racing, circuit, then I spend the $40-$50 and dump some insurance in the tank. Crank the boost up. For the small amount of money, it could save a motor.

On a 2.6 liter turbocharged motor, you are limited by the displacement of the motor. You just are not able to put down huge power on pump gas.

Once you start going 10's , 9's , 8's.... streetable/ street car... All depends on who you ask.

Here is a "street" Supra vs a 1400cc NOS Hayabusa.

http://www.badassride.com/videos/busa_vs_supra.wmv


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## Nicolas Kiesa (Dec 13, 2003)

Andy:
Nice movie mate,its always very exciting to see on board footage from drag runs,so many drive style's appear,you launch very differently from me,not saying its good or bad. But prolly bad :smokin: 

Cool HKS 6 speed box,seems work a treat especially from 3rd to 4th  

Nicolas K.


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Drag*

Obviously we have to use race fuel to ensure the life of the engine and pull big numbers from high boost, its just insurance really. The fuel we use is made by Anglo American ( used to be 76 in UK ).

Sean, C16 is available here too, I know die hards in the USA use it as do most of the drag guys running V8's here I believe ( amongst other fuels ). We use AA as they sponsor us a little so everything helps if you are intending on using so much fuel as we now do. 9.6 from the R34 is amazing and we are very happy with the result, to be fair more time on the strip and a couple of further minor changes and I think we would see 9.5 on Toyo's but for now the weather in the UK has closed in and winter is on its way so we dont have the time to pursue this any further in light of the other projects we are now running, including the new build R33 GTR, I think if we used the slicks again we could possibly see a low 9 but we will never know now. The R33 car has much higher expectations from us, definately non road legal full drag car, its being designed and engineered to challenge the quickest Skylines in the world, to include Mario and HKS as well as the others in the top 10 hall of fame, its a serious project and one which is taking ages to put together as we keep diverting attention to the R34 etc but we are getting there. We have a HKS Hi-Deck engine, built by HKS Motorsport special engine department as well as the HKS Air shifter gearbox. I would hope that within the next 3 years we will run a 7 second pass, this is our goal and all done in the same way as those cars before us, real GTR chassis, engine, 4WD etc, obviously on slicks. I hope that we can roll the car out later next year, its a big ask but we may get the first finished article done by then. This car, its development and build will be featured regularly on our website as well as Mario's no doubt to mark our progress at different levels. I will get Mario to host some on his site just to p1ss him off when he sees how much better our car will be than his  - We are not promising big numbers but we are going go for it as hard as we can and see what happens.

Kiesa : Listen, you may be an F1 driver but until youve done 9.6 in a GTR listen up! The interior shot on that video is not the 9.6 run, its a 9.9 run, we didnt tape the 9.6 from inside  Whats up with your mobile phone BTW? Give me a call, need to tell you something interesting!


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Andy Barnes said:


> I would hope that within the next 3 years we will run a 7 second pass,



 Holy shit


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Andy Barnes said:


> The fuel we use is made by Anglo American ( used to be 76 in UK ).


Yep, 76 dropped out of the race fuel market. What octane fuel are you running ? 



Andy Barnes said:


> Sean, C16 is available here too, I know die hards in the USA use it as do most of the drag guys running V8's here I believe ( amongst other fuels )


I drink the stuff. I love C16. Stock motor 2530's - 2+ bar(pegged the HKS boost gage) and a 150 shot of nitrous. 10.7 @ 137. There are some guys here in the US with a backhalfed 350Z running an RB26. They have run 7.30 @ 191mph on C16. They are running 60 foots in the 1.1 range. Best of a 1.09 .

They are supposed to be going out this Sunday and running the car at big boost. When I say big - they are in excess of ... well lets just say a lot of boost, and thats from a guy that thinks 2.0 bar is low boost...

http://www.xtrememotorwerks.com/350z.htm



Andy Barnes said:


> 9.6 from the R34 is amazing and we are very happy with the result, to be fair more time on the strip and a couple of further minor changes and I think we would see 9.5 on Toyo's but for now the weather in the UK has closed in and winter is on its way so we dont have the time to pursue this any further in light of the other projects we are now running, including the new


I really think you could get it down to the 1.5 - 1.4 range on the Toyos. A 1.5 would put you in the low 9 sec range.

Your launch is interesting. No real crazy revs from what I could hear, no 2 step , then a pretty gradual clutch letout to the top of first.

Put an auto tranny in that thing..... wonder what the guys in the UK would say about an R34 with a GM glide in it.... ha ha.




Andy Barnes said:


> build R33 GTR, I think if we used the slicks again we could possibly see a low 9 but we will never know now. The R33 car has much higher expectations from us, definately non road legal full drag car, its being designed and engineered to challenge the quickest Skylines in the world,


Best of luck with it. But I think if you want to challenge or beat HKS at their own game, you cant follow them. They aren't going to give you all their best parts...



Andy Barnes said:


> We have a HKS Hi-Deck engine, built by HKS Motorsport special engine department as well as the HKS Air shifter gearbox.


I have heard about this HKS hi deck engine a few times. Is this something you can talk about ? I have some ideas on what it is or isn't. The guys from Xtreme are making over 1200 rwhp out of a 2.6 liter. There are some tricks there though. If you show me yours.... I will show you mine ? 



Andy Barnes said:


> I would hope that within the next 3 years we will run a 7 second pass, this is our goal and all done in the same way as those cars before us, real GTR chassis, engine, 4WD etc, obviously on slicks.


Do you follow any of the US drag racing guys ? The Supras in particular. MSP just went 7.9 @ 180 in their "street tire" Supra. 2JZ and auto trans.

The Xtreme 350Z went 7.98 @ 172 mph first full pass down the track.

With GT-R's in the US- we aren't even close to your numbers, but if you want to get out and drag race, I don't think Japan are the ones to look to.


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Drag*

Sean,

That 350Z with the RB26 is awesome, was talking to Mario about it when we firts see it, from all accounts they are going for much quicker times?

The Hi-Deck engine is special from HKS and its 2.8 not 2.6. We didnt know it existed until we visited HKS two years ago and saw a couple of these blocks on the floor in the drag engine building department ( remember we are new to this business ), form then on in, thats what we needed. As for HKS not giving the best parts, well our relationship with them is pretty good so far, granted they may hold back however our feedback form them so far is great, they would like to see us challenge some big boys and maybe thier car is the impressions they give to us, in any case, we are a million miles away from worrying about that just yet  . We are not copying thier car or any other before, just looking at whats been done already by these cars and making ours an upto date version, hopefully improving on these cars dynamics in every sense.

The R34 video you have downloaded shows the incar footage from a 9.9 run I think it was, you can hear me back off in 1st gear, the 9.6 run was not recorded by us but someone else has it  the video was put together to give people an idea of what its like from inside. As for the techinique etc, we dont use 2 step etc just now, others are and I guess I am making it harder as every run is reliant on my skill to replicate the last, considering this fact, the results from Sunday are quite pleasing 

Would I need a rollcage to race in the USA under 10 seconds?

2530's and 2 bar sounds interesting, when I used these turbos we only ever had 1.7max before they turned to shite and just generated heat and no power but I guess you are running gas too...

FYI one of my previous runs was a 9.87 @ 138mph , your car has a nine in it if you can pull 138  Although this was on slicks, still - its 9 seconds!

If you would like to talk more you can always email me Sean : [email protected]

Will you be at Sema?

Andy


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Andy,



Andy Barnes said:


> That 350Z with the RB26 is awesome, was talking to Mario about it when we firts see it, from all accounts they are going for much quicker times?


They are trying to be the first "modified" class car in the 6's. The other cars in modified are in the 7.30 range also. The Pro cars are in the mid 6's now around 208-211 mph or so. There's a NOPI race out in Texas this weekend. Then next weekend is NHRA Pomona.



Andy Barnes said:


> The Hi-Deck engine is special from HKS and its 2.8 not 2.6. We didnt know it existed until we visited HKS two years ago and saw a couple of these blocks on the floor in the drag engine building department ( remember we are new to this business ), form then on in, thats what we needed. . We are not copying thier car or any other before, just looking at whats been done already by these cars and making ours an upto date version, hopefully improving on these cars dynamics in every sense.


2.8... hmm. Heard from a few people- Mario being one of them that HKS didnt run a 2.8 in their car.....

I think I know what the Hi-Deck block is. I will email you with that. Some things don't need to go out to the public. Racers have to hold some things back.

When I was at Motorex, and we were talking about racing Big Bird seriously, HKS offered us a few motors at a certain price. Never took them up on it.



Andy Barnes said:


> The R34 video you have downloaded shows the incar footage from a 9.9 run I think it was, you can hear me back off in 1st gear, the 9.6 run was not recorded by us but someone else has it  techinique etc, we dont use 2 step etc just now, others are and I guess I am making it harder as every run is reliant on my skill to replicate the last, considering this fact, the results from Sunday are quite pleasing


Two step makes launching the car much easier. I liked having the 2 step in Big Bird. Don't have to worry about trying to watch 2 things at once.



Andy Barnes said:


> Would I need a rollcage to race in the USA under 10 seconds?


You need a rollbar under 11.99 . You need a license if you run in the 9's. You need a neck roll and window net at 135 mph. You need a parachute at 150 mph.



Andy Barnes said:


> 2530's and 2 bar sounds interesting, when I used these turbos we only ever had 1.7max before they turned to shite and just generated heat and no power but I guess you are running gas too...


Long story behind it. But we tuned it at 1.5 bar and 150 shot of nitrous. It made 612 rwhp on a dynojet. At 1.5 with the nitrous it did [email protected] mph with a 1.65 60 foot. On the 10.7 pass, I did a 1.61 60 foot with wheelspin, spun in 2nd gear, and I was behind in the race. So I reached down and turned up the EVC EZ. I wasn't losing ground, so when I hit 4th gear I cranked the knob all the way, and walked him in the traps.



Andy Barnes said:


> FYI one of my previous runs was a 9.87 @ 138mph , your car has a nine in it if you can pull 138  Although this was on slicks, still - its 9 seconds!


A 9 is a 9. Been one of my goals for a while. The problem with Big Bird was it was a stock transmission, so I was real easy on it. I have broken enough stock ones.




Andy Barnes said:


> Will you be at Sema?


Its a 45 minute plane flight. Last year I managed to get more money out of the ATM than I thought I could. I helped contribute to putting some young ladies though school via Cheetas and Spearmint Rhino.


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## BIG-BHP RACING (Nov 18, 2003)

tyndago said:


> I think I know what the Hi-Deck block is. I will email you with that. Some things don't need to go out to the public. Racers have to hold some things back.



Isn`t that what Signal Auto use on that 8.99sek street drag R34?

If it is the same I now what you mean. They have showed that in a high performance imports dvd so I dont think that is a secret.


Anders..


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

Its description relays Exactly what it is... Think OS Giken 3.0...


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

dan0h said:


> Its description relays Exactly what it is... Think OS Giken 3.0...


I dont think its a decked and sleeved motor. It might be, but I have other theories.


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## JAY-R32 (Sep 1, 2003)

This is off the R33 SIGNAL AUTO car
(same engine as their 8.99 street tyred R34)


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

tyndago said:


> I dont think its a decked and sleeved motor. It might be, but I have other theories.


I am pretty sure its just that, that was what I gathered from one of the HKS Japan technical guys... May have the wrong end of the stick though


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## gary (Aug 19, 2001)

*Danho*

HKS dont sleive their high deck motors


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

gary said:


> HKS dont sleive their high deck motors


So whats a high deck HKS motor ?


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## gary (Aug 19, 2001)

*its*

A smart peice of kit and for them to disclose if they wish,The Gekien route is very simular but not the same


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

A hi-deck motor is usually a specially cast custom block with a higher deck height to permit a longer stroke...................isn't it?


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

gary said:


> HKS dont sleive their high deck motors


Hmm, I have the wrong end of the stick then... No surprises there!


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## Haribo (Oct 15, 2004)

wats with all the secrets, i thort the idea was to try and progress in the UK drag and tuning scene.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Pavlo said:


> Andy,
> 
> Can you confirm or deny that you had any assistance in the use of the clutch on the car?
> 
> Paul


You mean an adjustable centerfugal clutch system?

Aye, heard that toooo  

That would be awesome, posibble to launch on full boost at peak torque but slip the initial hit from engine to trans and then onto tyres this meaning no wheelspin OR bogging with the correct weight on the clutch, as the RPM raises so does the pressure on the clutch plates.

Would explain Hausers involvment, but i never mentioned it as even if it was true itd never be admitted, and TBH it seems "almost" too far fetched...

And everything i mention seemed to be thought of as shit stirring, when its not...


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## Bikerboy (Oct 16, 2004)

The centrafugal clutch is the same principal as we use on the bikes normally referred to as a multi staged lock up.I can sit on the line with full throttle at 8000rpm on the stutter box then when the light changes 'throw' the clutch away.If I've got the settings right you get no wheelspin and just the right ammount of wieght transfer to lift the front slightly.Its best setup using a data logger though.
Only real problem for me is if I get it wrong I end up with a bike in me lap you guys will just wheelspin,a lot safer!


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Clutch*

Hi,

The clutch we use in the R34 is a HKS R33 GTR 3 plate clutch, flywheel and cover, nothing more, not even the 6 speed type, we just use the boss.

We dont use slipper or slider clutches, all off the shelf HKS parts.

Andy


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## gtsm (Jan 14, 2002)

It will be a nice bit of kit a while ago was asked a question about an rb26 
can you tell the difference between that and standard one !! no 

was soon informed of difference and yes it will pull big power figures
roll on next year,would be great to see andy or anyone up against hks and mario 
etc in top 10 would be spot on,


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Andy,

The reason I ask about the clutch is the way the car launches and the way the car sounds after gear changes. But then it dawned on me that you wouldn't be using the clutch to change gear, then i saw the video with the slicks and that was very interesting.

I won't say anything here, but you have an interesting technique for launching the car, and I suspect you have some clutch slip somewhere that is actually helping you out big time.

I was actually very surprised when you stated you did the launches manually, it does require a knack to getting that sort of consistency, and you certainly seem to have it sorted. However I would go with as many driver aids as I could, every little helps 

Paul


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Pavlo said:


> Andy,
> 
> The reason I ask about the clutch is the way the car launches and the way the car sounds after gear changes. But then it dawned on me that you wouldn't be using the clutch to change gear, then i saw the video with the slicks and that was very interesting.
> 
> I won't say anything here, but you have an interesting technique for launching the car, and I suspect you have some clutch slip somewhere that is actually helping you out big time.


Indeed  adjustable centerfugal clutch  

Funnily enough i heard this before i saw any runs at all, but the runs backed up what i heard n felt from various circumstances.

But if he say not, well, cant argue can you, look like conspiracy theorists, lol.

I bloody would use one tho... :smokin:


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

I wanted to keep out of this (for obvious reasons), but having had a little study of those vids I have a few comments... theres something at work with Andy's clutch, be it a lucky and convenient slip by the HKS triple (which I have seen before and would not rule out), or something more deliberate, for whatever reason, that launch sure does look like a drag clutch and was certainly very very very very consistent all day, almost mechanically so, rather than human...

My personal comfort in what amounts to a loss shown in those vids, comes from the fact that Ronnie's car competed at all, lost hardly any ground once the launch was over, without resorting to any Drag specific parts or modifications (ie. capped front vents, side pipes, diddy-wheels, removed interior, spoilers, uncontrolled boost etc) to aid it.

Am I taking anything away from Andy? Certainly not, his and his cars consistency was impressive all day, but to compare Ronnies car to Andy's - its chalk and cheese, no matter how you look at it, Andy's car was setup for drag racing, and quite sensible of him too, being as it was a drag race, this is why he won!

The race with Ronnie was won before it even started, and I would hope so too, because with all the effort put in by Andy et al in testing and drag specific (Santa pod specific infact) setup, to have lost to Ronnie on the day, who drove there and back in his car - would have been very embarassing indeed.


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## johnnyTightlips (Jun 17, 2003)

does andy have anything to lose or gain by not telling the whole truth? (not implying that he is or isnt)


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## Norris Designs (Aug 4, 2002)

Andy has an HKS triple in his car, have talked about it with him before. Just pat the guy on the back instead of trying to reduce his efforts! 

dan0h - Can I compare my car to Rons then? Who got 200Mph first on the Redline day!!!  Who drove their tired old Evo to Pod and back and got a 10.38sec  .........No hang on I got knocked out of the "shootout" bacause of my nerves!.........Doh!   

Cheers

Simon


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

Simon,

As I mentioned, I'm not taking anything away from anyone, its very very very good launches that were super consistent, if they were all deliberately slipped launches with his very own left foot, then fair play to him.

As for that top speed day, well hey - we didnt just want to turn up and hit 205 right out of the box Simon, we didnt want to belittle your efforts   We were all very impressed to see an Evo into the 200's and all commented on how much you deserved it - but as you just sniped I'll take it back


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Im not surprised your nervous,

You drive a Yellow submarine - scare the wits outta me just getting in it !!!

lolol

J.


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## Norris Designs (Aug 4, 2002)

dan0h - you git!  Ron has had far too much glory over the past few hundred years, so when I do better I have to kick it in your face!    Did I mention my 0-60 and 0-100 times by the way!  

Bladerider - Ha ha good one!  Shame you weren't about for the 200Mph run, could have done with some ballast for stability!    

Cheers

Simon


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

I don't see why people think that discussing a possibly driver aid is somehow dumming down his performance. After all, Sumo sells parts, not drivers!

I also don't think we should expect Andy to tell us any more than he already has, unless Simon is going to start giving out the secrets of his EVO?  While they are at it maybe they can give us some bank account numbers too!

Simon,

Nerves? Be the first to stage, no more nerves, and it makes the people playing games look stupid while you get all the time you need to launch (and lets face it, you needed a lot of time )

Paul


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Yes, hed have a lot to gain, and fair play, when i question him its certainly not belittleing (sp?) his achivments, its just trying to find out info, lol.

Claiming less was done that really is promotes a companys skills at building and driving a very very fast road car than if you admitted youd done more than everyone else.

Not mentioning stuff like the clutch i mentioned (not saying he has one, but you know what i mean) helps keeps secrets as no offence to anyone, but skyline owners arnt the most clue'd up car enthusiasts in the world, and if you have an advantage, why give it away.

For example (tho Andy hasnt obviously, im serious, jus an example), install a some ladderbar (or similar) drag rear end with a mustang derived live axle, remove the 4WD system, run a transbrake drag auto or adj' centerfugal clutch, and a sly nitrous install, and suddenly youd have an incredibly fast drag car that to 99% of the world just looks like a normal 4WD GTR. (Admitedly a drag auto with transbrake might be too obvious from the car sounding like a Jet plane before launching and the sound on gearchanges)

Almost all top level tuning is all smoke and mirrors, always has been, saying stuff has been done when its not, saying stuffs not been done when it has, etc.
Basicly its cause you dont want to help the competition, esp when YOUR the one whos spent all the time, trouble, and MONEY, researching and testing these mods, you dont really want to tell everyone, dont want them to sit on their **** while you work your balls off and they get the same gains do you...
Infact you might even want to throw them off track and make them think they copying you when infact what you said is lies and they doing somthing crap, lol.

I ask Andy questions, i question his comments and claims, as i do anyone who has somthing id like to know about, but i dont really EXPECT to have an answer (or a truthful one, lol), or feel wronged by people keeping secrets as i know exactly why they do, and ****, im going and will do exactly the same thing!

Fair ****ing play, and if you do the research and know the right people you find out a lot of stuff anyhow, secrets or not.

(And also like Danoh said, if Andy was deliberatley slipping the clutch with his feet then fair fookin play, you can really drive you big Muskiteer looking Mo Fo :smokin: )


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

Simon,

0-60's and 100's, yes they are absolutely stonking, your car is definately seriously setup for 0-60's, I'd be amazed if it wasnt the fastest road legal car in the uk to 60... So a serious congratulations to you, on the quite frankly rediculous 0-60 and 100 times, and a total nuff-respect-big-kudos-top-banana well done for getting the ol' girl over 200mph! 

Bring on the head to head with RC's car I say


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## Norris Designs (Aug 4, 2002)

Pavlo - If the discussion was on a new thread then I think it would be viewed as a un-loaded question but when posted on a thread like this the said person is bound to gat a bit miffed. I know for a fact that Andy ran a shelf HKS triple and was bloody amazed how well his car went when I saw it both occasions. Forums are always a very difficult place to gauge the intent behind a remark smilies or not!  

No secrets in my Evo just Magic!  If you want to deposit some money in my account I will happily PM you my details, that is what you were suggesting wasn't it?   

Iam always nervous for the first launch or two and then am OK. Its especially bad when there are that many people watching and I was late as per usual giving me 0.001 sec to prepare myself!  

SteveN - They say if your not cheating your not trying hard enough! While this is true with most motorsport, I know I do everything down the line and believe Andy does too, maybe thats why this game is so difficult!  

There isn't that much smoke and mirrors, its just people won't believe things because they don't know how to do them themselves. The only conclusion they can up with is that it is a lie! You do have keep development discoveries a secret though otherwise we would all be equal and I certainley don't want that!  

Dan0h - You are most gracious my dear sir! You have also prepared an excellent automobile for all its chosen pursuits......bloody well done that man!  

Both Clive and myself are desperate to get the two cars head to head to see who wins!  I reckon my old Evo will crack sub 2.5 to 60, Sub 5.5 to 100, 9 sec 1/4 and hopefully 210+ with the next few tweaks to the car, fingers crossed.......the question is what will break next!  

Cheers

Simon


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Simon,

i was actually suggesting that for tuners to give out all their secrets is akin to giving out swiss bank account details!

There is more than one way to change the launch and from watching the videos, I can now see how Andy may be able to remove the shock from the drivetrain without any fancy clutch manouvers. However, if I were Andy I would be keeping schtum now too, just to keep people guessing.

Paul


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## Norris Designs (Aug 4, 2002)

Pavlo - I know was a bit of tonque in cheek! Could still do with a couple of Million £££ if you fancy it?!   

Whatever he does he is better at launching than me, just need to tailor the wild man of bourneo look and I will be halfway there!   

Cheers

Simon


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Well I am sure we can discuss launch techniques when I beat you next year Simon


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## Norris Designs (Aug 4, 2002)

Pavlo - Iam humble enough to be beaten by a better driver anytime!  (Makes mental note to get better driver to dress up as me and whup Pavlo's a#se!)  

Cheers

Simon


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Hell no, I would just get some fancy electronics to do it, much easier, no lamb chops required!

Paul


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Cheeky fecker !!! lol

Where would you be today without my logging expertise??    

OK, dont answer that one.......lol

Still, its nice to see that Dan is such a happy bunny these days since he has banished a certain internet surfer/bike rider/holidaymaker/part timer from the play room !!!    

He said he was gutted, but admitted defeat at the weekend !! pmsl

J.


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Drag*

Hi,

This thread is funny 

All parts we use are off the shelf HKS, clutch part No. 2604 RN003A

My car is already quicker than Simons Ebo, 2.5 0-62mph on a more recent test ( was 2.89 before ). Anyway, Simon has a disadvantage, he is missing 2 cylinders and a GTR badge for starters LOL, not mentioning the fact he also drives a ' wine bar ' car in his spare time, that sort of thing f&cks with your mind 

I forgot to mention before, we have got special drag brakes on the R34, made as a special for Sumo by Alcon, lightweight 4 pot. This enables us to run smaller wheels on the front down to 15''. Any enquiries about these : [email protected], they are available for R33 and R34 currently.

Andy


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## Norris Designs (Aug 4, 2002)

Andy - You sod, beating my 0-60Mph time already! I will have to beat that again then!  



> Anyway, Simon has a disadvantage, he is missing 2 cylinders and a GTR badge for starters LOL


 Your right about the 2 cylinders, not too sure the GTR badge is an advantage though, better to have a real badge like "Evo VII" !   

I guess the "wine bar" car is referring to my Ferrari? Proper posers car!  

Cheers mate

Simon


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## Gazmo1 (Jul 30, 2001)

*Clutches*

I have to agree with Andy, this thread is hilarious.

Are you lot watching too much X files or spooks?

Gary.

P.S. Simon I always thought of them as willy extensions.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Gazmo1 said:


> I have to agree with Andy, this thread is hilarious.
> 
> Are you lot watching too much X files or spooks?
> 
> ...


*snigger* heh heh  

T


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

*There was a start...and a finish*

Finally downloaded my camera!

start







[/IMG] 

warming up







[/IMG] 

finish!









Shame other chap's car broke.
T


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

very well done on ur times simon...very impressive for a evo no matter what uve done to it..and andy well what can be said..very impressive indeed especially as its using off the shelf hks parts..just shows the quality of hks parts


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

Tonigmr2

Absolutely great photos.
If you've got any hi-rez photos, send them over to me and I'll make a couple of desk-top wallpapers with them and put your name on it too.

Cem


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## Eagle Eyes (Aug 24, 2002)

*.*



Norris Designs said:


> the wild man of bourneo look Simon


That's Borneo and it's a very nice place to visit.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Brill Andy, was there as always to see one of the best Sky's eat everything (well,err cept for the Jet car and the top fuel Dragster & drag bike !!!) If you werent there you missed one of the best !


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## kenan (Apr 29, 2003)

tonigmr2 said:


> warming up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You must of been stood right net to me as I have almost excatly the same pictures


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Brill Andy, was there as always to see one of the best Sky's eat everything (well,err cept for the Jet car and the top fuel Dragster & drag bike !!!) If you werent there you missed one of the best !


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Pictures*

Wicked pictures.

Anyone that has video footage or pictures of our GTR, they would be greatly received  Please send by email or post, anyone who missed getting a free hat at the event - this is your chance! 

Also, for anyone interested there is an article here about the day :-

http://www.eurodragster.com/news/news.asp?Story=oct04#oct04

Andy


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Footage & Pics*

To relight this, I got a couple of vids after asking however I am sure there must be more vids and pics out there, anyone got any stashed, would love to em.

Cheers

Andy


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## jameswrx (Jul 27, 2003)

Hi Andy, got a couple of pics here..

I like the way the guy's watching in the 2nd pic :smokin:


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## spudgun (Sep 3, 2001)

*sumo*

i was reading the latest japanese performance mag today, read the article about the car etc. i noticed the full page advert for sumo power that followed it, and the final bit of text is something along the lines of "sumo-power builders of the fastest skyline" or something like that (will dig out the ad if needs be).

one thing confuses me though. who actually built this impressive car??

i always thought it was gt-art, or was it a collaboration, or was it solely sumo? or is it all the same? in the photo, im sure i can see gary passingham on the right of the picture.
i thought sumo was a supplier of hks and do-luck parts, not an actual tuning house/engine builder like abbey, gt-art etc. or am i wrong?

well, whoever built this car, i saw it in the flesh at the very show at the pod and it really was the business. congrats!


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## MONKEYmark (Apr 17, 2003)

tyndago said:


> Some Supra times, mods, splits. You might find it interesting .
> 
> http://www.t72supra.com/Sideways.htm


my car is on that list with stock turbos,no fuel comp,no boost controller,stock ecu,stock 440cc injectors. 

thats a good list to have a look at 60foot times cars do with different turbos  

what is fastest skyline running stock turbos?
i know the n1 turbos are a bit special for power wise.

just curious what andy has done on stock turbos or anyone else?
and what sort of 60 foot times do you guys get on stock turbos with sticky rubber or street tyres. last year when i was watching gtr`s doing 10.2 they look so fast


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Pics*



spudgun said:


> i was reading the latest japanese performance mag today, read the article about the car etc. i noticed the full page advert for sumo power that followed it, and the final bit of text is something along the lines of "sumo-power builders of the fastest skyline" or something like that (will dig out the ad if needs be).
> 
> one thing confuses me though. who actually built this impressive car??
> 
> ...


Hi,

The car has had many stages of build so far, the ultimate specification and parts choice including the engine parts was determined by me/us. The engine was built and mapped by Gary @ GT-ART. The whole car, what it does and how it does it was put together by us, there are other things done previously by GT ART however more recently everything has been done by us in our workshop including all the work from getting it to run from 10.2 to the new time of 9.6 excluding any engine work ( which was done at GT ART ).

The fact our / my car runs the times it does ultimately is due to Sumo and the route we have chosen to take wth regards to outside help and our own ideas.

As for tuners etc, we have a 8000sqft warehouse and workshop, although we dont work on other peoples cars ( thats why people think we only supply parts ) and this facility is used to maintain, tune and develop our own cars on evenings and weekends as well as providing our showroom etc where you will also see some of our cars on display, the GTR included.

Our new drag R33 project is being built as much as possible by ourselves with an engine built by HKS Japan for our special project. Again we shall outsource some areas as we are not the best persons to carry out certain jobs ( that we recognise we need experts for ) however once again ultimately it will exist and run as it is our idea and in our own way.

James WRX : Nice Pics, cheers mate, have copied them up, if yo have any more, I would be grateful to receive them by email : [email protected] - Cheers!

Monkey Mark : From memory the quickest I ever run on stock turbos was 12.78 ( and a pretty much stock car ). I never pushed to find out how quick you could be with them however I would guess that as you could only push around low 400bhp's with them, unless you had a massive weight reduction then you would only really see 12 second passes I'd imagine. When I started running 11's was when I began to use HKS 2530's, circa 550-600bhp. I just checked some old timing slips too for the 2530 period and I was seeing 1.8 60' foots on the ones I checked however we were only running normal tyres, Bridgestone RE040's I think ( stock GTR tyres ) early on.


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## tim b (Jan 5, 2004)

FAO Mr Barnes

I've got some vids and piccys of the Sumo R34 in my computer, and am a little bit pikey and therefore would very much like a free hat please.  

I've got one cool vid where unfortunately the RK Tuning car breaks, but the Sumo car in the other lane looks like its on an elastic band, it accelerates so fast.  

The pics and vids are about 16Mb worth though, so its a bit big to fit in an e-mail. If you could let me know the address, I'll burn them onto a CD and post it. Cheers.

P.S. HKS hats are very nice, I hear.


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

This thread is funny. The funny thing is how you lot are so obsessed with figures and going fast in a straight line. Whatever happened to the thrill of driving?


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Address*

Good news 

Please send to : 

Sumo Power Ltd
Kleer House
Sheerness Docks
Sheerness
Kent
ME12 1RS
Attn : Andy.

When I get the CD I shall reward you 

AJF : We like thrill of drving however this thread is about quarter mile straight stuff


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

I would think it is hardly a walk in the park to pilot a car up the 1/4 in 11 seconds or less?

I would think perhaps the same thrill as doing a great lap but packed into a shorter timeframe?!?!?!

Simon


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Simon has it spot on, similar thrill just quicker. Actually, despite me being track biased, I probably got more of a kick out of my 10 second 1/4 than any lap I've ever put together anywhere....


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## spudgun (Sep 3, 2001)

Andy Barnes said:


> Hi,
> 
> The car has had many stages of build so far, the ultimate specification and parts choice including the engine parts was determined by me/us. The engine was built and mapped by Gary @ GT-ART. The whole car, what it does and how it does it was put together by us, there are other things done previously by GT ART however more recently everything has been done by us in our workshop including all the work from getting it to run from 10.2 to the new time of 9.6 excluding any engine work ( which was done at GT ART ).
> 
> ...


thanks for reply, 
so, lets see if i have this right....


if a potential customer rings sumo and says, build me a fekk off quick skyline, you are builders of the fastest skyline in the uk, what do you say to them??

what i mean is, if i went to sainsburys tomorrow, bought a list of my favourite ingredients from a recipe id thought up,but then got gordon ramsey to do the whisking and baking, who made the cake? me, gordon ramsey, or me in association with gordon ramsey? gt-art built and arguably more importantly mapped the car. BUT, with a lot of hard work, money and determination provided by sumo. sumo provided the recipe as it were.
therefore, shouldnt the ad say sumo power, builders of the fastest skyline in association with gt-art?


this is in no way a jibe, cheap shot or in should in any way be taken as a mark of disrepect to sumo or that great car of yours. just think credit where its due thats all. i have no allegiance to gt-art at all, just a person learning all he can along the way, just thought it would be nice to see gt-art get a mention in the ad.

all the best with your future projects


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Did Andy totaly spec the car? Ie head spec, compression ratio, cams, turbos, etc etc and all the other detailed spec?

Or did Gary/GT-Art do it?


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## spudgun (Sep 3, 2001)

Andy Barnes said:


> Our new drag R33 project is being built as much as possible by ourselves with an engine built by HKS Japan for our special project. Again we shall outsource some areas as we are not the best persons to carry out certain jobs ( that we recognise we need experts for ) however once again ultimately it will exist and run as it is our idea and in our own way.



as a matter of interest, what else is involved in turning a street gtr into a drag gtr, apart from the engine? ive always thought the engine was the most important bit? not the be all and end all, but nevertheless highly important to the success of the car?
im honestly not being snidey here, i genuinely respect what youve achieved, but if you dont assemble and map the engine yourselves, then surely you are the co-ordinators of the project,but not the builders?


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

the engine is without doubt an important aspect - but if you read the thread Andy mentions that over the last 12 months or so the engine spec has barely altered but he went from 10.x to 9.6

This was a direct result of chassis (tyres suspension etc) work.

it is the whole package that counts when you are trying to shave % of seconds of a time in either track or drag.

Simon


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*My car*

Firstly : The spec was chosen by me, all engine components apart from the head, this was done by Gary. The car does what it does as we made it do it and used the services of others along the way, Gary included. If we to have listened to others about what we should have done or parts we should have used we too would still be running 10 second passes and breaking things. 

Secondly : Answering questions about this is no problem to me as its not as if we have never given credit to Gary for what he did/does - push the search button on this forum or check any mag feature on the car. If we wanted to we could have just got the engine built and finished and not told anyone where it came from or who did it but we dont, we tell everyone as he did a good job. If our press ads dont thank him personally thats because they are advertisements for our company, not his. We paid him and everyone else for thier skill and help and we publically owe them nothing. The fact that we tell everyone who did the various aspects of work is a gracious thing on our part. 

We are thankful to everyone involved just as the ad says and I think that it is also true to be said that everyone who has helped us or been involved in the project has also benefited, everyone knows who built the engine, what fuel we use, what tyres we use, what bodykit we use, what oil we use etc etc.

The bottom line is the car is ours and what it does is due to the fact we made it do it. If we made a car in alliance with someone else etc then sure we'd name them too however, this is our car, our money and we paid for every part and service, no one gets a free ride or should expect to - not at my expense anyway.


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