# How the R32 ATTESA ETS works to make you look good



## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

A Skyline GTR is pretty good at making you look like a better driver than you really are without ruining all your fun! In fact I've a few people get out of the car on track days and ask "Are you sure it's four wheel drive?"

I've been looking at data logs to understand exactly how it does it. Essentially: RWD normally, moving to around 25% to 30% front drive to help manage "mildly fruity" moments and finally 50/50 split for high speed stability.

This matches what I've read over the years and the feedback you feel in the car, so it's nice to confirm that all with real data and be able to show it in practice.

Here's 30 seconds of data, three corners and a straight at Silverstone to demonstrate these basics. 






This example is a 32 but the 33 and 34 are fairly similar in basic operation. Apparently the ATTESA ETS intervenes quicker and more intelligently in the newer cars but the basic principles are the same. What you do see on my logs is the 250ms-500ms the 32 system takes to build pressure at the transfer case and bring in the front wheel drive, doesn't sounds long but you can get quite sideways in half a second:runaway:


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## Rich_A (Apr 11, 2003)

Nice one Alex.

Its amazing how much difference it makes. Mine was in RWD only recently after the G-Sensor needed replacing, in the wet it was useless. Now its working again, when it kicks in you really seem to need it. It is lots more stable, just on the road.

Clever system IMO.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Do you have any logging under braking?


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

How much do you charge for home tuition?


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

1.3 g is really impressive. Are you still on the AD08R's? 

Good to see you having fun, anymore footage?


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

git-r said:


> 1.3 g is really impressive. Are you still on the AD08R's?
> 
> Good to see you having fun, anymore footage?


Yes still on the AD08Rs, they are 18mths old now I think, only done a few dry trackdays on them though. Seemed to rain every time I went on track last year! 

The figures look good but they were a bit more noisy than the RSRs and no longer have the grip levels of the A048Rs which they pretty much had when brand new.

Lots of raw footage from the 19th not much edited yet. Just the geakery above and this sport with an amusingly driven 991 Turbo.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

R32 Combat said:


> Do you have any logging under braking?


Yeah I was logging all day so there will be plenty of different conditions will be in the data, let me have a look see if it turns up anything interesting.


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

AlexJ said:


> Yes still on the AD08Rs, they are 18mths old now I think, only done a few dry trackdays on them though. Seemed to rain every time I went on track last year!
> 
> The figures look good but they were a bit more noisy than the RSRs and no longer have the grip levels of the A048Rs which they pretty much had when brand new.
> 
> Lots of raw footage from the 19th not much edited yet. Just the geakery above and this sport with an amusingly driven 991 Turbo.


Thats some nice driving, your car is rapid.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

matthewk said:


> Thats some nice driving, your car is rapid.


Agreed and your car seems quicker than ever! What power were you running?


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

Sorry I think you was talking to the OP not me haha


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

Alex, how are you collecting the 4WD torque split data? are you probing the CAN bus? I would like to get the same into my VBOX logs but I guess I would need to find the PIDs and then ask Racelogic to add those.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

matthewk said:


> Sorry I think you was talking to the OP not me haha


Hehe I couldn't tell either. I saw some of your onboard though, looked great, 620 is a nice number, interesting you've detuned a bit, I've also turned down the wick, I was running 1.2bar and have managed 2:32 fairly consistent with a 2:30 fluke once in 2014. Now only 1bar but with much better response after Mark at Abbey dialed in the closed loop boost on the Link using the data we sent back and for in the course of the day at Silverstone. I get full boost after a gear change a full second sooner now. The result is around 450-470fwhp I guess which is pretty nice. I've also taken out the ABS and not yet got to grips with that so I'm afair bit slower over a lap, where I was getting 1.2g on the brakes I now squeak 0.9g and you see it in the logs killing the lap times, best I managed in decent conditions was a 2:36 on the 19th. Not all about lap times though and its really lovely to drive now. I was temped to switch back to high boost when I cpuldn't quite pass that Turbo on the straight though.:chuckle:


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

matthewk said:


> Alex, how are you collecting the 4WD torque split data? are you probing the CAN bus? I would like to get the same into my VBOX logs but I guess I would need to find the PIDs and then ask Racelogic to add those.


The old style ATTESA doesn't have any data output really so I fitted a pressure sensor into the transfer case itself and fed that into a gauge and then into an analog input on the link ecu. In due course I will output that onto the CAN bus and log it on my race technology video 4 logger which is already reading everything else from the Link CAN bus output, but for now its just logged in the Link ECU. 

On an R35 no doubt it will all be on the bus so it may just a question of getting the CAN ids for your logger. The race technology logger can input box is configurable so if you know the can stream/frame details you can add it yourself which is very handy.


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

Thanks, I will try and find the PID for it and contact Racelogic, it would be interesting to see how the R35 torque split compares with the older generations.


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

Nice one AlexJ, definitely much better than what I read from my defi!
Now I really know how the AtTESSA helps me to look good.. hahhaha

Do you mind if I post the video in my local R32 whatsapp group?


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

peckhs said:


> Nice one AlexJ, definitely much better than what I read from my defi!
> Now I really know how the AtTESSA helps me to look good.. hahhaha
> 
> Do you mind if I post the video in my local R32 whatsapp group?


Sure, feel free to share


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

Thanks!

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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes that was a crap and confusing post- sorry! 

Good seeing all these figures and trying to understand them. Thanks for the vids


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

R32 Combat said:


> Do you have any logging under braking?


I've had a good look through the logs and very occasionally the pressure will tick up to 50-60psi under braking. This seems to be associated with the more extreme brake zones, esp where the final speed is lower and two downshifts are required, the "simple" brake zones even with high g (-1g) say 130 down to 70mph with one or no gear change don't trigger it. Perhaps the lower speed is increasing the chances of lockup and the ATTESA is intervening. 

For the most part there is no ATTESA activity on the brakes though.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

AlexJ said:


> I've had a good look through the logs and very occasionally the pressure will tick up to 50-60psi under braking. This seems to be associated with the more extreme brake zones, esp where the final speed is lower and two downshifts are required, the "simple" brake zones even with high g (-1g) say 130 down to 70mph with one or no gear change don't trigger it. Perhaps the lower speed is increasing the chances of lockup and the ATTESA is intervening.
> 
> For the most part there is no ATTESA activity on the brakes though.


Interesting, thanks.


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## RRSS (Jun 16, 2010)

Really interesting thread Alex. As discussed on the phone the other day it's really useful to be able to compare as I was convinced my 4wd was in too much when I'm seeing almost full 4wd on a try straight on hot tyres and therefore had a problem. However, it would appear that is exactly how it's supposed to work.

So that's good then, it's not broken again )


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Good result.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Pulled some interesting data from the logs from Snetterton on Wednesday running in some very mixed conditions. Especially looking at the effect of the Skylab. I wish I'd been more methodical, I even forgot to turn on my main data logger so only got data from the Link ECU. That said, there is enough here to make for some interesting investigations next time:

Can anyone guess what happened around 8:15?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Go on.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Turned the Skylab down ... or up... wish I could remember  You can see the attesa goes from being mildly active most of the time, changing to cutting in dramatically but less frequently.

The data above is basically two full laps at the start of the second lap I changed the setting because of changing track conditions, I just can't remember if it was getting wetter or dryer at this point lol.

The white plot is attesa pressure again btw. I've sorted out the scale in the link, nearly, the numbers are PSI but the label says kPa.


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

The skylab works great, and it really does make a difference to how the Attessa reacts...
Still waiting for the newest version though. .. getting impatient.. hahaha

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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Which Skylab have you got?


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

R32 Combat said:


> Which Skylab have you got?


Skylab Fusion

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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

peckhs said:


> Skylab Fusion
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk


I know your is. Lol.
I meant Alex.


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

R32 Combat said:


> I know your is. Lol.
> I meant Alex.


Ah... hahahahh

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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Lol Fusion here also


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## RRSS (Jun 16, 2010)

I can't see a link, is cos I'm on an iPad?


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Oh, I've been a div again about sharing images from google photos here's what i meant to share, i'll try to embed the image again properly tonight when i am at a desktop (google have made it so you can't view the sharable url for images on the mobile browsers) https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=ZmRSMGpvLWU5VjNiR1pqSWtWdVhsN1k2UmNtdzJn


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

I think I figured it out using Dolphin, maybe my first post today will look a bit less cryptic now!


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

I didn't have problem viewing on my mobile..

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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

AlexJ said:


> Lol Fusion here also


Thought so.
Looks like you turned up the longitudinal and turned down the lateral or vice versa.


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

I feel that these test are very good, as by understand how the attessa works, and how skylab can adjust the system, we are able to adjust according to the tracks.
I use my 32 for 3 different tracks, so having an idea how all this works help me in deciding how much to turn the knobs
***128077;

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## StarkTemplar (Feb 25, 2016)

I didn't realize it would kick in for higher speed acceleration like at the end of your video. Is this behavior standard? Is there any amount of wheel spin it is detecting?


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## Alex1710 (Sep 21, 2015)

Very interesting, didn't know about the high speed stability 50/50


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

R32 Combat said:


> Thought so.
> Looks like you turned up the longitudinal and turned down the lateral or vice versa.


Oddly I always adjust them together. 

I'm 60% sure I turned down the skylab as the track dried. I think the log shows the skylab working the attesa harder in the first lap keeping things in check and then the attesa working "normally" (without attentuation from the skylab) having to make big interventions in the not yet fully dry conditions.

Later on I've got another puzzle from the logs that I'll post up; a regular full pressure spike at the point of upshift, that starts to tick up the moment you lift the throttle.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

StarkTemplar said:


> I didn't realize it would kick in for higher speed acceleration like at the end of your video. Is this behavior standard? Is there any amount of wheel spin it is detecting?





Alex1710 said:


> Very interesting, didn't know about the high speed stability 50/50


I'd also never heard of this, was surprised to see it and suspected some fault in my system, although at least one other person has reported seeing the same on the factory gauge so may be standard after all.

I dont have a reliable way of logging wheel speed unfortunately, the link can't handle the signals from the factory abs/ets wheel sensors; too high frequency and too high voltage at speed.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

The ATTESA applies 4WD at speed to increase stability according to Nissan.
I am unsure exactly what the TPS does apart from rapid start. These logs might shed some light on it.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

So here's the data showing pressure spikes that seem to coincide with gear changes. You can see fairly consistently when I close the throttle (and probably before I dip the clutch) the pressure spikes up and then drops as I finish the gear change and roll back into the throttle. In some cases this then is followed by a more sustained rise in pressure which may well be the speed stability effect.

I screwed up the pressure translation from the voltage from the sensor on this log so ignore the values in the y axis, the highest peaks are in fact 260psi.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Is there any lag in the pressure transducer system?
Battery volts moves a fair bit too.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

R32 Combat said:


> Is there any lag in the pressure transducer system?


I think transducers are more or less instant in response (tens of ms), the ramp up rate might lag for big pressure changes though. I can't think how the ECU would introduce any lag but you never know.



R32 Combat said:


> Battery volts moves a fair bit too.


I'm not happy with the voltage level or stability tbh, not sure where to start with diagnosis other than a tired alternator putting out slightly low voltage with poor voltage regulation... pain to replace though.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Ideally you need to log G as well. And vehicle speed.
I can't see when you are cornering.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

R32 Combat said:


> Ideally you need to log G as well. And vehicle speed.
> I can't see when you are cornering.


As I said I wasn't being methodical, I was only looking at boost control PID, just happened to notice the ATTESA stuff which is logged in my default ecu template. My main race data logger with video etc wasn't logging sadly. Still there's Silverstone on the 13th June, this gives me some ideas for some more scientific investigations to try out then.

But I guess if the TP is less than 100% its a corner or a brake zone. You tend to see small short throttle blips in the brake zones too, corner exit usually sees TP rise to around 25-30% and then snap 100% when in a straight line. The sections where there are 2 or 3 blocks of 100% TP in a row separated by short 0 TP gaps are the straights.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

I think it goes;
Start -7.20 Murrays (tight left hand 2nd gear)
7.20-7.35 Senna straight
7.40-7.45 Riches (fast long right hander)
7.45-7.50 straight
7.50-7.55 Montreal (tight, uphill, right hand 180, 2nd gear)
7.55-8.00 straight
8.00-8.10 Palmer (long medium left)
8.10-8.15 straight
8.15-8.25 Agostini (medium tight left)
8.25-8.30 straight
8.30-32 Hamilton (open left, just a dab to scrub some speed)
8.32-8.35 straight
8.35-8.40 Oggies (long medium right)
8.40-8.45 straight 
8.45-8.50 Williams (open right)
8.50-9.05 Bentley straight
9.05- Brundel, Nelson 
End (Bomb Hole/Corum missing)

Largely I'm counting from the brake zones to the point of full throttle as part of the corner.


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## RRSS (Jun 16, 2010)

AlexJ said:


> I'd also never heard of this, was surprised to see it and suspected some fault in my system, although at least one other person has reported seeing the same on the factory gauge so may be standard after all.
> 
> I dont have a reliable way of logging wheel speed unfortunately, the link can't handle the signals from the factory abs/ets wheel sensors; too high frequency and too high voltage at speed.


Yep, ironically I noticed the same thing around the same time and spoke to "r32 combat" about it. These logs of yours are really interesting Alex. Although I can't log my attessa info I wonder if there is some way of comparing something between our cars at Silverstone, either my data logs and/or following you with video etc as it does seem that our cars systems are behaving in the same way which would indicate it's as intended.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

It would be great if we had some data from different cars, its not too bad to setup; get one of Andy's adapters and generic 18MPa pressure transducer and plumb and wire it up  I guess you have a channel spare of the DL1 or your ECU even. 

Since we are both using the same brand of logger it makes it fairly easy to overlay data from the two cars, though you drive a bit faster than me


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## RRSS (Jun 16, 2010)

Ah yes, forgot you run the ame data logger as me. Good stuff. 

Will have to sort an adapter although I have a few more pressing items to address first


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## K_arlstrom (Apr 17, 2016)

Interesting read, can confirm that my 32 also applies 4wd in higher speeds but I always asumed this was from running different tyre sizes front and rear (8 mm circumfence or 0,4%).


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I do not think think the later RB GTRs run as much front torque at high speeds.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Getting ready for some more logging on Monday 

Came across this interesting info on the gtrusa blog site (tyndago / Sean Morris on this site) i think Andy's posted the japanese version on the forum before. Not sure which model this relates to but i dont think i see all the described behaviour in my logs.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I'll be there Monday. We can chew the fat.


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## dA_RoB (Dec 21, 2012)

AlexJ said:


> Getting ready for some more logging on Monday
> 
> Came across this interesting info on the gtrusa blog site (tyndago / Sean Morris on this site) i think Andy's posted the japanese version on the forum before. Not sure which model this relates to but i dont think i see all the described behaviour in my logs.


It's from the R32. You can find it in some different books about the R32!

Cheers,
RoB


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

The version I posted is out of the R33 GTR Japanese workshop manual and the Japanese Stagea RS4S workshop manual.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Just messed about on the drive with the car sat still. 60% throttle triggers the attesa and pre loads the hydraulics to 130psi. Even if you are sitting still without the engine running!


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

That the 'launch control'!


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

markM3 said:


> That the 'launch control'!


Rapid start. Turns off above 14mph.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Yeah, rapid start. The interesting bit is you need to use at least 60% throttle before dropping the clutch and its only giving 50% lock up (130psi) initially.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)




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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

The video is saying "not available", you may need to make it public?


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

I guess that is on an r33? Here's the response on my R32, no TPS display so you'll need to take my word for it but basically there is no increase in pressure until 60% throttle and then it increases gradually and you need 100% throttle to get 120-130psi. It then bleeds off gradually as tps goes back to 60%.

I guess it makes the r33 easier to launch.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Very interesting.


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

That's an interesting gauge you have there AlexJ..

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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Some interesting data logs from silverstone on 13 june.

Data:
Long accel
Lat accel
Attesa pressure (labelled as water pres)
Throttle pos
Boost

This is with the skylab fusion set with both controls to 2oclock.

You can see the attesa pressure is tightly linked to boost/throttle. The lateral accel seems not to have much input, the long accel only seems correlated when the boost and throttle are also in play. I reckon you could replicate this control of the attesa just by giving lockup proportional to the boost level.

This setting gives a hint of power understeer, the track was dry by this point and i'd left it set to my usual wet setting, but Jake Hill was in the car for this run and commented that balance was pretty neutral and the lack over power oversteer allows you to push with more confidence: "the diffs were working well", "you could attack the slow corners in like you could never do in a rwd car"


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Some more on board video with data overlay showing when and how much the 4wd comes in with some explanatory annotations.

https://youtu.be/_SLrU-H3tL0


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

are you the guy that span infront of me?


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

think that was a red one actually


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Hehe not guilty


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

AlexJ, relooking at your visa again, I am wondering.
I know you fed the attessa pressure to your LINK.
But what software did you used to integrate all the information into the videos. Especially the gears and the analog style pressure gauge .
Thanks

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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

peckhs said:


> AlexJ, relooking at your visa again, I am wondering.
> I know you fed the attessa pressure to your LINK.
> But what software did you used to integrate all the information into the videos. Especially the gears and the analog style pressure gauge .
> Thanks
> ...


Its a Race Technology Video 4 system, it is a combined data logger and video system, up to 4 cameras. You can set it up to record the overlay straight on the video or overlay it later in the software, which is what i now do. The ecu data goes into the logger via the can bus.

Racelogic, AiM, Racekeeper and others do similar systems.

Tbh you get most of the same results with better quality video for a tenth of the cost these days from something like harry's lap timer or a go pro and race render. It is only if you are seriously into the data that one of these "proper" systems makes sense.


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## peckhs (Jul 20, 2013)

Thanks AlexJ. I am using Harry's now... Hahahh

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## RRSS (Jun 16, 2010)

That's a really interesting vid Alex, especially as being on on the same day i can relate to it. I'm surprised that it wasn't giving more in some areas, such as that looooong left towards gracelands. Wonder if it's because you were using higher gears than me but as we said when we were chatting mine felt like it was throwing drive all over the place through there. 

Unsurprising result at tarzan though haha!!


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Alex next thing you should try and log is brake pressures front and rear. Really useful for looking over your braking technique and also getting bias adjusted (if using adjustable bias valve)


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## RRSS (Jun 16, 2010)

the point of this isn't to improve technique though is it, it's more to uncover the "mysterys" of the 4wd system


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## Mr.Carnage (Jun 16, 2015)

delete double post.


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## Mr.Carnage (Jun 16, 2015)

Revival of this old thread. 
According to your logging its showing
aprox ~ 1600kPa=232.06 psi 50/50 lock
aprox ~ 800kPa=116.03 psi 25% lock


I found out the hard way that pressurizing the transfer case to 250psi is a NO-NO. I misread how much PSI I should of ran through the transfer case and I ended up putting a hole on the bottom of my front diff pan. 

Is anyone else running a pressure gauge to monitor their attesa system?

*QUOTED FROM AN OLD POST*


R32 Combat said:


> The general theme is 260psi equates to 50kgf.
> I'll tweek the coefficient of friction on my spreadsheet to equal the above figures. It's interesting the workshop manual states 230psi is the max.


Which seems about right according to his datalogging. aprox ~ 1600kPa=232.06 psi 50/50 lock


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