# Mine's vs Nismo



## weka (Jul 3, 2001)

As both are track orientated, which of their cars are faster around the same track?
Anyone got any times?

Another thing to clear up, why does the Mine's car's rev go up so fast? Does it have ultra short gearing?


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Mines car goes up the revs so fast as it has a super dooper magical engine so so different from all other RBs running 2530s...

Or so most people seem to belive even tho that defys logic... 
(id say due to the mines vids commonly seen are on very twisty slow circuits which hightens the sence of speed, esp as car needs to be in low gears so fast revving, not to mention the enthusiastic commentry).

Still a very fast car tho. 

Mainly it seems to be down to very low/close gearing, and im sure things like lighter drivetrain (carbon prop etc) help too, as does lighter weight car.

Its not like it does it right thru the revs, only comes alive about 5000 if you watch the vids, nothing magical, and you cant see the pedals so youve no idea how truly responsive the car is when coming on the throttle (ie good race drivers with laggy cars can anticipate the lag and put the boot down in advance to accelerate at the right moment).

Not sure about track times tho, know the ATTKD R32 has done a 55.9 lap of Tsukuba, be interesting how that compares...


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

The Mine's BNR34 N1 demo car is a STREET car so it can't be compared to a full stripped out GTR running in the OPEN class like the ATTKD(althoug it's faster than 80% of them lol!). Its still the fastest in its class with a mid 57 lap time at Tsukuba. But like Mr. Knowitall up here says its all about magic and no engine tuning! I think they just feed magic mushrooms to the engine and out of nowhere it does wonderful things

Nismo is not even close to Mine's, still fast but nowhere close. The closest GTR to the Mine's AND in the same STREET class is the MCR which is a bit faster in the straights thanks to its GT-RS but looses out in the corners


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Who the HELL said theres no engine tuning? 

Its just most people in the UK are under the impression the car has some magical super spec engine, and it blatantly hasnt.
All you hear is "i want a mines engine" due to them vids...

Everyone thinking that cars all about the engine doesnt do it justice anyhow, its clearly a very well sorted and balanced all-round car.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

who ever said this?? I think they are just referring to how that car performs on the track and videos it's featured in. The results and everything else speak for themselves. Unlike continuously basing ones arguments on theoretical car/engine performance....


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

all everyone on here talks about is how amazing the mines ENGINE is, how responsive and fast revving it is without being able to think WHY the car seems like that in the vids...

Im giving a reason for it, simple.


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

I'm not quite going to agree with Dino on this one...

Just looking at the 2 videos at Ebisu circuit of the Mines N1 and the HKS Street Performer (I know it's not Nismo before anyone points it out) you can see quite a lot of places that the performance comes from.
The Mines car is 200+ Kgs lighter for various reasons, 
it runs on S-tyres compared to normal street radials for the HKS car 
it is totally geared to be a track car compared to Nismo (and this particular HKS car) who usually bias for the street,
it appears to be monumentally quick in the in-car vid, however it is only about 1.5 secs quicker on the lap.
You never get to see the speedo in the videos but it seems obvious that the actual speeds are not that dis-similar between those two cars even the the Mines car 'seems' much quicker because of the way it achieves those speeds.
No magic - the Mines car is an excellent Track car you can use on the street, whereas the HKS car is a Street car you can use on the track.
It's like Granny Smiths and Golden Delicious, similar but not really the same.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

What I don't understand is why on earth its such a sacrilege to change final drive ratios or diffs? Everybody does this, although when Mine's does it's considered a form of cheating?? Get over it!! Its a bloody fast car and it deserves the respect it deserves. Its fine for other tuners to use Hollinger or OS sequentials (whithc whatever gear sets they want!) but not for the Mine's to choose finals for different tracks (on stock box!)? Obserde!


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Dave...I never mentioned the Ebisu laps nor the HKS street 34 which IMO couldn't be more different from the Mine's. But to give you an example what has the Top Secret fully stripped out track R34 managed at Tsukuba? That was was pretty light and running a T78 yet if I recall only got in to the 58's?

I mean of course it it set up for track and runs S tyres but its still in the street class and the fact that its close to Open class times is pretty impressive to me... I guess Mine's should make a fully road going road car similar to what HKS have done with the black 34, then we could make more accurate comparisons.


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

Yep - I only mentioned that since both videos are on the same circuit at the same time and are roughly comparable in power outputs - therefore the differences have to be elsewhere.
The bit that I don't quite agree with you on is that it's still a street car.
Just my opinion, but to me it's a track car now.

Top Secret's car did do a 57 something at Tsukuba, but for all I know the Mines car could still be faster.
As you said, there is nothing wrong with changing the diffs - but it is worth pointing out that its one reason why the Mines car is so impressive....and there is no doubt that it's an impressive car.

I'd quite like to see what the difference in times would be between the HKS car and the Mines car if they just ran on the same tyres.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Yep would be interesting to see...but 1.5 sec in Ebisu is a big differece. Plus by the look of it the car was set up way too hard for the bumpy surface.

By street car I meant thats it's in the "Street" class so no roll cage, no stripped out interior, audio and A/C, and a catalizer. Wouldn't like to drive it around with those Dynamic rock hard suspension though


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## weka (Jul 3, 2001)

So does anyone know what the different ratios/diff do the the top speeds in each gear in the Mine's car?


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## Mr R32 M (Jun 12, 2004)

I love the MINES car from what I have seen of it!

but yeah, not just about the engine, it would be a great package all round

mark


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

weka said:


> So does anyone know what the different ratios/diff do the the top speeds in each gear in the Mine's car?


afraid not, they are very secretive about stuff like that plus no tuner in Japan measures performance figures for any of their cars (0-60, 0-100, in-gear speeds, top speed). It seems all based on lap times of Tsukuba and other circuits...pity really as such figures would give some more perspective of the cars capabilities


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Any track that can be done in 57seconds by a road-car is a go-kart track  

Why don't they use decent circuits like Suzuka?


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

SteveN said:


> Who the HELL said theres no engine tuning?
> 
> Its just most people in the UK are under the impression the car has some magical super spec engine, and it blatantly hasnt.
> All you hear is "i want a mines engine" due to them vids...
> ...


if this isnt a uprated engine over a std unit i dunno what is  

http://www.mines-wave.com/products2004/power_mng/engine/complete-e.html


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

weka said:


> So does anyone know what the different ratios/diff do the the top speeds in each gear in the Mine's car?


It's most likely R33 diffs which I think is 4.11. I think at 8000 RPM in top that's about 189-190MPH or something like that...........That's what Amerikiwi has just done to his NUR and loves it.

Takes RPM in top gear from 2100-2200RPM at 100K to 2800-2900RPM at 100K so quite different.

Haven't driven the car yet, but will at Easter and Amerikiwi posts on here too so may comment. He's mentioned to me it's awesome.

He wanted to get as close as he could to the Mines car spec without going too mad. According to all the information he could get from Mines, it seems the engine isn't expected to last long relative to what most of us would want. 

Lightened crank and a few other trick bits all help to that free revving look. Regardless of what you think of the Mines car, it's pretty impressive, but as Dino says........wouldn't wanna drive it on the road !


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Guy said:


> Any track that can be done in 57seconds by a road-car is a go-kart track
> 
> Why don't they use decent circuits like Suzuka?


Hi Guy,

Yes they also use Suzuka sometimes (sorry don't know the times) but Tsukuba is very close to Tokyo so the most popular among the Kanto tuners. Just to give an indication a stock BNR34 V-spec driven by Keiichi Tsuchiya does mid 1:05s around the little Tsukuba track...they are down to 54 sec now with tuner demo cars (HKS TRB2 Evo)....thats just crazy!

I'll have to upload a few GTR movies from Suzuka...Fuji was also very popular before Toyota F1zied it!!


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

canman said:


> It's most likely R33 diffs which I think is 4.11. I think at 8000 RPM in top that's about 189-190MPH or something like that...........That's what Amerikiwi has just done to his NUR and loves it.


When a few of us met Tamura-san one night at Daikoku, he suggested that the R34 should have the final drive switched to 4.11 too  

Personally, I think the Mines N1 is probably even more extreme than that...


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## Maxi (May 9, 2003)

What parts would be needed to fit the R33 gtr final ratio on the R34 GTR?


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Bean said:


> Personally, I think the Mines N1 is probably even more extreme than that...


I agree...that rpm needle was way too fast. Don't think I ever seen a shorter final for the Getrag advertised though?

Maxi...R33 diffs would do the job


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

DCD- There is NOTHING wrong with it. Its a GOOD idea to have the gearing to suit the car. MY point was most people seem to belive its the ENGINE alone that makes that car fast. ITS NOT.

 Jesus, its not that hard to grasp what im saying, surely?

Yunis- Who said it ISNT tuned? NOBODY.


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

SteveN, love the Photos mate!!!


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## weka (Jul 3, 2001)

So how many R34 demo cars does each have and their use - track/street?


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## weka (Jul 3, 2001)

canman said:


> Takes RPM in top gear from 2100-2200RPM at 100K to 2800-2900RPM at 100K so quite different.


Sorry, didn't understand that!


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## hipogtr (Feb 17, 2002)

Bean said:


> When a few of us met Tamura-san one night at Daikoku, he suggested that the R34 should have the final drive switched to 4.11 too


Is that really what he said, Bean? I can't recall.

Cya O!


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Luffy said:


> SteveN, love the Photos mate!!!


Yea, i was gonna post them on a thread in the tech section here, but i could almost feel the bitches typing already so i didnt bother, jus PMd a few people, lol.


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

i know what you mean!!!

we'll have to get together sometime soon! and pikey go for a drink!

getting a lot of things sorted for me car in the next couple of weeks!


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Drinking eh, sounds a plan to me, lol.

More car bits too eh. Nice one :smokin:

Sorry everyone for the minor hijack...


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

weka said:


> Sorry, didn't understand that!


Vince,

I think he's saying that at 100kmh in top gear the revs go from 2100-2200ish up to 2800-2900ish rpm with the 33 diffs fitted.

Bean, who does Tamura work for?

Rgds
Nito


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## emicen (Sep 4, 2003)

Wouldnt that be Tamura-san, head of Mines? The guy thats in the vid of the Mines R34 vs the Supra with Keiichi Tsuchiya driving and saying its too fast.

Incidentally, someones mentioned the MCR R34, now given it was beaten in the touge race with the RE Amemiya FD, how would the Mines car stand up on the same Touge test?


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

hipogtr said:


> Is that really what he said, Bean? I can't recall.
> 
> Cya O!


Yep - that's definitely what he said....amongst other things.
At the time I'm pretty sure he was talking about your car too  

BTW - I mean THE Tamura Hiroshi-san.
worked on the 33GTR
Project lead for the 34GTR
President of the GTROC(UK)
Not related to Mines (as far as I know...)


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

hmm, if one can source a 6sp gearbox from an R34 and fit it into an R32 the gearing and the ratios should be the same as the R34. 

There are so many skyline specialists here im suprised not knows or has a conclusive answer as to whether the 6sp getrag fits the R32


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

Yunis A said:


> There are so many skyline specialists here im suprised not knows or has a conclusive answer as to whether the 6sp getrag fits the R32


I'm sure that if you asked them they would tell you that you need to swap the driveshafts and gearbox mount for it to fit.

Phil


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

been there done that.....you need a 34 gearbox and transfer box, 34 clutches assembly including flywheel, front prop . front half of the rear prop , gear lever
assembly.

Also 34 has different final drive ratio,s to a 33 BTW.


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## RB2633 (Feb 5, 2005)

weka said:


> As both are track orientated, which of their cars are faster around the same track?
> Anyone got any times?
> 
> Another thing to clear up, why does the Mine's car's rev go up so fast? Does it have ultra short gearing?


speaking to Shin, the mines R34 you had seen on the track was a prototype with titanium internals which is a very expensive model and i think a one off!!
 huh!
Also i do believe it definately has very low gear ratios the car is stunning!


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

id rather have that engine on my street gtr than any other single big turb set up anyday..with the gearing of course..lol


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

ADUS said:


> id rather have that engine on my street gtr than any other single big turb set up anyday..with the gearing of course..lol


Thing is, my points always been, is the engine itself truly special liek people seem to belive? 
They claim about 600bhp, and the vids show its powerband to be around 5000-8000. 600bhp, all at high rpm, and a 3000rpm powerband, thats not exactly supreme performance is it


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

well i wouldn`t mind one


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

SteveN said:


> Yea, i was gonna post them on a thread in the tech section here, but i could almost feel the bitches typing already so i didnt bother, jus PMd a few people, lol.


FFS, why not stop posting altogether! You really do yourself no favours mate. 

You have made a generalist comment on this thread about everybody thinking the Mines car has a magic engine, therefore implying that we are all fools. When all I’m sure you mean is that some people don’t consider the car as a whole; engine, gbox, diffs etc. Do you see where I’m coming from?

I for one am genuinely interested in the photo’s and how you car is coming along, as I’m sure most people on this board are. I’d guess its going to be very impressive. But you continue to alienate yourself with what you type.

My posts can be a bit like yours in one respect; I often don’t have time to explain myself properly because I’m always in a rush and my posts suffer as a result.

Just my opinion – take it or leave it. I'll let Weka get back to his thread now


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

Abbey M/S said:


> been there done that.....you need a 34 gearbox and transfer box, 34 clutches assembly including flywheel, front prop . front half of the rear prop , gear lever
> assembly.
> 
> Also 34 has different final drive ratio,s to a 33 BTW.


any idea on the costs ???


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

*Howsie- * 

Wanted to post, but know what happens to every single post on here of a similar vein, so just PMd the pics to certain people on here instead.

I wasnt saying that everyones daft/blinkered enough to belive it has some fantastic engine unlike all others and THATS why it looks fast, but it is very common, a comment along similar lines is said almost every other day.
Same as people thinking "chatter" etc comes from DVs/BOVs (or its a "chattering wastegate") and so on, comments you hear all the time, they wrong, but people say them all the time, others read it, and belive it too. Chinese whispers, does nobody any good.

Funny about alienating people like im unfriendly, seems to me the other way round, unless i go along with the sheep and agree and do everything the same as anyone else, the snidey comments come out.
It happens here but nowhere else, hence why pics have been posted a few places elsewhere, but not here.
This place's "friendlyness" is exactly why most of the interesting stuff on this forum always happens via PM, as everyones afraid to speak openly on the board...

Anyway, like you said, sorry Weka, back on subject...


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

I understand. To use your example, some people do think that 'chatter' etc comes from DV's but there are many people on this board who actually do know the real reason. Many people on this board have a deep understand of performance cars and Skylines - thats why you come here right?

Anyhow, BBS's like this are a generally a good source of information and it would be a shame if we went backwards (email, pm's etc). A big shame.


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## RB2633 (Feb 5, 2005)

*Lol, u guys are really funny!!*

There's nothing magic about the mines r34 but that its engineered to perfection as a all-round track car it's been perfectly balanced, power & weight has seemed to be taken into alot of consideration into the manufacture of this crazy a$$ car....

I love it, it revs up like a motorbike


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

One of the guys on our SDU forum has put the getrag onto his R32.

Loves it. Not sure on cost, but wouldn't be cheap, even if you got the parts off a bent 34.


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

SteveN said:


> Thing is, my points always been, is the engine itself truly special liek people seem to belive?
> They claim about 600bhp, and the vids show its powerband to be around 5000-8000. 600bhp, all at high rpm, and a 3000rpm powerband, thats not exactly supreme performance is it


steve u seem so anti mines its fookin funny  

Ud love to own that car..admit it


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Steve...its really getting ridiculous now


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## weka (Jul 3, 2001)

NITO said:


> Vince,
> 
> I think he's saying that at 100kmh in top gear the revs go from 2100-2200ish up to 2800-2900ish rpm with the 33 diffs fitted.
> 
> ...



Thanks!

Wow, that's pretty low gearing then. That means 6th gear standard 27mph per 1000 rev drops down to about 22mph per 1000 rev. So top speed in 6th at 8K is about 175mph!?


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## NoNothin (Aug 6, 2003)

Lighten up people.

All steve seems to be saying is that mines are not the be all and end all. I agree with him that people on here seem to deify mines.

Its always nice to see a quick example of your chosen steed, but the car in question has been heavily optimised for Tsukuba. This may or may not be a good thing, depending on where you want to drive the car. Other tuners may not have bothered to go all out for a lap time of Tsukuba, this doesn't mean they aren't as good as mines just they may concentrate on different things.

I think it looks a lot more impressive than it probably is. Don't shoot steve for looking beyond the marketing BS.


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

Has this place gone schizo?


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

NoNothin said:


> Lighten up people.
> 
> All steve seems to be saying is that mines are not the be all and end all. I agree with him that people on here seem to deify mines.
> 
> ...


what marketing bs?..all most people have seen is a demo car going round a track  

yeah and all lay off steve..pmsl


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

Good God!

The Mines car is awesome! who gives a **** if there are more powerfull skyline that will beat it in a straight line? there are many yank mobiles that can do just that as well.... but this car is totally refined.. just accept that they have a nice and well balanced engine package, low diff ratios, other light weight components all housed neat and tidy in an R34 chassis! what more do you want?

thats it, argument finished!!!! there a lot more important issues in life to stress about.. lol mines R34 is not one of them!  :smokin:


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Ironic you post all that Yunis, as you used to be the main one banging on about the amazing "mines engine" like that was what made the car look fast... 

Doubly ironic about saying theres a lot more important things in life when you got "mines r34 rocks!!" in big letters in your sig... 

Nowt wrong with discussing this kinda crap, helps people see the truth, but actually giving a toss what some random person somewhere thinks about something thats nothing to do with any of us is wrong, and very sad, i hope none of us does...


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Talk about more important things in life ,Jesus! Folks there is a 1 hour Emmerdale special on and people are posting on this thread between 7and 8pm  The Worlds gone mad


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

SteveN said:


> Ironic you post all that Yunis, as you used to be the main one banging on about the amazing "mines engine" like that was what made the car look fast...
> 
> Doubly ironic about saying theres a lot more important things in life when you got "mines r34 rocks!!" in big letters in your sig...
> 
> Nowt wrong with discussing this kinda crap, helps people see the truth, but actually giving a toss what some random person somewhere thinks about something thats nothing to do with any of us is wrong, and very sad, i hope none of us does...


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

cant belive your that much of a gom you need to try n get the last word with some bent smilie, esp as you contributed nowt to this thread worthwhile


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

steve never mind this bollox get downloading with that broadband...

The mens room needs yer..lol


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

ADUS, check yer PMs on the other board   (and if stu gives me free access n makes me a mod, il give my expert services  )


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## NoNothin (Aug 6, 2003)

ADUS said:


> what marketing bs?..all most people have seen is a demo car going round a track
> 
> yeah and all lay off steve..pmsl


open your eyes


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