# lost it today, but fortunate to get away without major damage



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

on my way to work this morning, straight bit of dual carriageway, with one roundabout on it, came to the roundabout fine, went round it ok, coming off it found myself into a slide heading towards the central reservation, so turned opposite way to avoid hitting that, spun car around smacked drivers side on kerb and below is the result..





























































at present apart from the wheels, looks like the most damage is to the lower suspension arm


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Rear rack will be ****ed surely. Look pretty heavy


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

wouldn't be to shocked if it is screwed, first thing is to replace wheels, and the bent lower arm, and then get it to a garage to get it properly checked out


----------



## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Ouch sorry to see that mate 

Fingers crossed it'll straighten up ok...

If you have insurance I'd be tempted to make a claim and leave it with a tuner as there could be a lot of bent stuff... 

Looks like a really nice 33..


----------



## HeavyDuty (Apr 27, 2012)

Argh! Sorry to see that, glad you're OK...that's some helluva toe action you got going on in the rear!

^ Amen, a very nice looking 33, hope all will be well.


----------



## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

Any more details? Speed? hicas? The road looks dry...


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

yeah although it was cold in the morning, around 7am this happened, road was dry.

round about is on a dc as mentioned, where the speed limit lowers to 40 just before the round about, had come down to that, dropped to 3rd approaching the roundabout, as there is rarely traffic coming in from the right side, got on and around the roundabout fine, when I then went to put my foot down coming off the roundabout as that leads onto a straight thats when I lost it..

not sure if the tyres didn't help in this, although there is plenty of tread, the recovery guy did comment, they didn't look good, showing small cracks in them

car hasn't been driven much in the last year or so, 1000 or so miles at the most, tyre are Nankangs so not sure if that had any bearing on this or not


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Probably diesel on the roundabout.


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

Mookistar said:


> Probably diesel on the roundabout.


funny you should mention that, whilst chatting to the old bill, this was about 2 hours later, a lorry had just gone past and spilt a load of diesel on the part of the round I'd come off at, only reason I remember that is the officer mentioned how they overfill and spill a load on roundabouts etc..


----------



## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

ragt20 said:


> funny you should mention that, whilst chatting to the old bill, this was about 2 hours later, a lorry had just gone past and spilt a load of diesel on the part of the round I'd come off at, only reason I remember that is the officer mentioned how they overfill and spill a load on roundabouts etc..


Well if that is the case,the lorry is responsilble for your accident and can be held accountable !

Slim odds of tracking him down and proving it though.


----------



## andrew186 (May 3, 2010)

unfortunate mate, hopefully not too much damage


----------



## slacker (Dec 10, 2007)

I have a rear rack you can have- Just sort out postage


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

slacker said:


> I have a rear rack you can have- Just sort out postage


cheers for the offer mate, let me know how much postage would be, or pm us where you are based, and I'll see if its close enough for me to pick it up


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

ragt20 said:


> when I then went to put my foot down coming off the roundabout as that leads onto a straight thats when I lost it..


When you say put your foot down, this was when the car was straight or was it still turning?

These cars are RWD most of the time, so the rear wheels will step out when you mash the pedal coming out of a turn. The 4WD element doesnt come in until you straighten up.


----------



## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

Sidious said:


> The 4WD element doesnt come in until you straighten up.


Not strictly true The 4wd comes in to 'help' you straighten up, you just have to remember to keep your foot in, and not over correct it or it will spit you out.

Was just being pedantic!!


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

Sidious said:


> When you say put your foot down, this was when the car was straight or was it still turning?
> 
> These cars are RWD most of the time, so the rear wheels will step out when you mash the pedal coming out of a turn. The 4WD element doesnt come in until you straighten up.


can't say 100% the car was straight when I went to put my foot down..

thinking back over it now, and speaking to a few people, am sure I've screwed up here, by lifting off the power once the back end has stepped out, and touching brakes 

gotta see as a important lesson learnt and not look to blame anything else but myself for this


----------



## Jags (May 20, 2007)

Ouch! That looks nasty but it can be sorted pretty easily so fingers crossed you'll be back on the road soon


----------



## jimmy1234 (Nov 16, 2011)

ragt20 said:


> gotta see as a important lesson learnt and not look to blame anything else but myself for this



nice to see someone actually owning up than blaming road/leaves/diesel/oil/topless hitchhicker etc etc.



hope it doesnt take a huge amount of time to get you back on the road.


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

RJT said:


> Not strictly true The 4wd comes in to 'help' you straighten up, you just have to remember to keep your foot in, and not over correct it or it will spit you out.
> 
> Was just being pedantic!!


Not sure that is 100% correct. Power/torque is not transfered to the front wheels when the G-sensor is registering that the car is still "in a turn" - it assumes the front tyres are already working hard keeping the front end in check. 

It is only as the car starts to straighten up, and the laterial G loading reading from the G-sensor (aswell as steering angle, difference in wheel speeds etc) drops the ATTESSA system assumes the front tyres now have surplus grip to accomdate traction from the power being transmitted.

Keeping your foot down and the sensation the car is automatically straightens up is just co-incidental as during corner exit the demand/workload on tyres to provide laterial grip will diminish so now the tyres can freely put the extra power down to accelerate out.


----------



## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

I got told that power is only transferred to the front wheels at a steering angle of 10% or less.

Maybe a tuner can chime in


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

ragt20 said:


> can't say 100% the car was straight when I went to put my foot down..
> 
> thinking back over it now, and speaking to a few people, am sure I've screwed up here, by lifting off the power once the back end has stepped out, and touching brakes
> 
> gotta see as a important lesson learnt and not look to blame anything else but myself for this


It does happen to alot of GTR owners, you just need to adjust to its behavour and you'll be fine.

If you see GTR's being raced on a track, you'll notice drivers being judicious with the throttle pedal as if it was any other RWD car, but you can put more power down if you do it right.

But I would also recommend once you get your car fixed to get decent tyres, geometry done and even check if the dampers are ok.


----------



## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

Sidious said:


> Not sure that is 100% correct. Power/torque is not transfered to the front wheels when the G-sensor is registering that the car is still "in a turn" - it assumes the front tyres are already working hard keeping the front end in check.
> 
> It is only as the car starts to straighten up, and the laterial G loading reading from the G-sensor (aswell as steering angle, difference in wheel speeds etc) drops the ATTESSA system assumes the front tyres now have surplus grip to accomdate traction from the power being transmitted.
> 
> Keeping your foot down and the sensation the car is automatically straightens up is just co-incidental as during corner exit the demand/workload on tyres to provide laterial grip will diminish so now the tyres can freely put the extra power down to accelerate out.



haha, thats even more pedantic!!
Ok you win, i thought you were just saying the 4wd only works in a straight line!


----------



## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

ragt20 said:


> can't say 100% the car was straight when I went to put my foot down..
> 
> thinking back over it now, and speaking to a few people, am sure I've screwed up here, by lifting off the power once the back end has stepped out, and touching brakes
> 
> gotta see as a important lesson learnt and not look to blame anything else but myself for this


Thats exactly the right attitude

id be very careful who I took driving advice from esp on a car forum like this.

some of the advice ive seenabout driving is laughable! (not talking about his thread - just a warning) 

will probably get a lot of abuse for this but most gtr owners ive met really have no idea how to drive! (including myself in that group!)


----------



## David (Apr 25, 2003)

ragt20 said:


> can't say 100% the car was straight when I went to put my foot down..
> 
> thinking back over it now, and speaking to a few people, am sure I've screwed up here, by lifting off the power once the back end has stepped out, and touching brakes
> 
> gotta see as a important lesson learnt and not look to blame anything else but myself for this


I personally think the not lifting is just macho bollocks.

I have driven plenty of cars, can beat most people arround a karting tack and done a few drift days in proper drift cars and I still think the quickest and safest way to get a sideways car back straight is to gently back off.

I have used this many times over the years and never crashed.

I can see how braking wouldn't help, but then again if your past the point of no return it might straighten you up.

These things just sometime happen


----------



## GTR Cook (Apr 22, 2008)

David said:


> I personally think the not lifting is just macho bollocks.


I disagree, its about the transfer of weight and keeping the car stable- which is why you keep your foot where it is- unless of course you going WAY too fast.

I have only ever had a moment when lifting off the throttle. Thats not to say that i know what i am doing


----------



## Gary&Amanda (Feb 10, 2011)

does the attesa work in the same way as the Evo's Ayc system? as im used to drivng with that


----------



## HeavyDuty (Apr 27, 2012)

David said:


> I personally think the not lifting is just macho bollocks.
> 
> I have driven plenty of cars, can beat most people arround a karting tack and done a few drift days in proper drift cars and I still think the quickest and safest way to get a sideways car back straight is to gently back off.
> 
> ...


+1 ^

I was executing a LH U-turn once on a 4 lane (each way) with no traffic in sight, (thought I had plenty of room if it got out of sorts), layed on the gas & was trying to hang on until I was able to right the thing turning into the turn. 

I was dead wrong. 

At some point in the drift, the front wheels shot me 90 degrees to the right of my direction of travel (the direction they were pointed.) Fortunately I had enough room to disengage the clutch & apply the brakes, but it scared the hell out of me, I've never had a car that acted like that. I developed a whole new respect for the thing.


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Gary&Amanda said:


> does the attesa work in the same way as the Evo's Ayc system? as im used to drivng with that


Very different system. The AYC system applies and variates power and braking on all 4 wheels, where as the ATTESSA system leaves the front wheels/tyres alone so all the tyre's potential grip is used for steering and holding the front end of the car. 

When a GTR is in a corner, going pretty fast - you can be sure the front tyres are very busy holding the car on the road, the last thing you want is to burden it with torque, a tyre can only work with so much at the same time. 

It's only when the car starts to staighten up, the front tyres are not working so hard anymore and that's when you can put power to the front (nice smooth throttle not mash it) and leave a conventional RWD car behind.


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

RJT said:


> haha, thats even more pedantic!!
> Ok you win, i thought you were just saying the 4wd only works in a straight line!


Not trying to be pedantic, just trying to explain how it works from a driving perspective. 

I think threads like this can become very useful for future gtr drivers or new gtr drivers to help avoid incidents like the OP experienced.


----------



## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

So whats the consensus?


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

CSB said:


> So whats the consensus?


I'd say instability on exit caused by altering cambers, typical of roundabouts, too high on exit speed whilst still turning, followed by lift off oversteer.

It's a guess and I wasn't there, obviously.


----------



## Dough75 (May 10, 2012)

Sidious said:


> Not trying to be pedantic, just trying to explain how it works from a driving perspective.
> 
> I think threads like this can become very useful for future gtr drivers or new gtr drivers to help avoid incidents like the OP experienced.


Sorry to hear about your loss today. I've had the same thing happen, yet with an FD RX-7.

As a new R33 owner, I wouldn't mind a primer on how to drive a GTR through a corner. I'm used to F/R's (M3's) and I'm yet to really push hard enough to get the front wheels realy working for me. Any advice would be much appreciated.


----------



## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

Dough75 said:


> Sorry to hear about your loss today. I've had the same thing happen, yet with an FD RX-7.
> 
> As a new R33 owner, I wouldn't mind a primer on how to drive a GTR through a corner. I'm used to F/R's (M3's) and I'm yet to really push hard enough to get the front wheels realy working for me. Any advice would be much appreciated.


Doug

to be honest i just take it really easy when im going out.

esp in the Saurus 33, you dont need to drive it quick around corners

:smokin:


----------



## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

matty32 said:


> to be honest i just take it really easy when im going out.
> 
> esp in the Saurus 33, you dont need to drive it quick around corners
> 
> :smokin:



+1 :thumbsup:

theres a right place to test the speed and play with the car but definitely not on a public road (no offense to you and not saying you did ragt20 buddy)

at least you are ok and not hurt. hope youll sort it out soon and would be great to see and hear you are back on the road mate


----------



## slacker (Dec 10, 2007)

ragt20 said:


> cheers for the offer mate, let me know how much postage would be, or pm us where you are based, and I'll see if its close enough for me to pick it up


Im in Northern Ireland but i have used a courier that always works out pretty cheap. I'll dig out the rack and pm you a pic over the weekend


----------



## Kango_V (Jun 24, 2005)

Hey G, nice to catch up today. Sorry to hear that this is your car. Doesn't look too bad. Hopefully you'll get it back up and running soon.

Let me know if you need some help. Anybody ever put s15 alloys on an r33 for just moving it around? Not driving?


----------



## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

exactly same damage occurred to my (now dead) former R32 - right rear took the impact. Ruined rim, bent lower suspension arm and a couple other links, and some repainting and re-skinning over a mild dent to pull out.
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/147762-just-crashed-moby-dick.html

I am certain my loss of control came from weight transfer to the front, which left the rear very loose (I had thought I had blown the tire, but in retrospect the tire was ruined by the impact). Combined with high speed and subfreezing temps...I wasn't really in a good state of mind and should not have been behind the wheel. Not saying that's what happened to you...just noting that I hit in the exact same place and it really didn't take much at all to sort out


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

Kango_V said:


> Hey G, nice to catch up today. Sorry to hear that this is your car. Doesn't look too bad. Hopefully you'll get it back up and running soon.
> 
> Let me know if you need some help. Anybody ever put s15 alloys on an r33 for just moving it around? Not driving?


cheers for the offer mate, if ya fancy taking apart the rear one weekend let me know..

no worries re the wheels, have managed to source the same make and model wheels as on the car now, all being well could be collecting them today.


----------



## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

TAZZMAXX said:


> I'd say instability on exit caused by altering cambers, typical of roundabouts, too high on exit speed whilst still turning, followed by lift off oversteer.
> 
> It's a guess and I wasn't there, obviously.


I meant consensus on lifting off the throttle.


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

anyone have or know if there is a how to on removing the suspension parts on the rear side, been searching around without much luck...want to start things apart to see the extent of the damage and what parts will need replaceing


----------



## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

It is really straight forward, once you get it up in the air it will become very apparent.


----------



## SWYD (May 12, 2008)

Hi mate 

I had a friend who did the exact same thing! I would drop the whole rear subframe, check all the welds on it, its likely some have gone . This is a good starting point for you to then see whats f*$%ed, also on the positive side its a chance to build a nice rear end?


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

had some time to have a proper look at what bits are potentially gone and need replacing..

here are a few pics. 



































































































































and finally a pic showing quality of the tyre, may have not been totally responsible for this, but would have not helped.


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

pretty much what we said on the phone. top arm is gone to, plus ur in for a bit of stuff at MOT time looking at your bushes.


----------



## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

and the fact your running a GT-R on possibly the worst tyres in the world ever lol

just nismo the suspension


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

matty32 said:


> and the fact your running a GT-R on possibly the worst tyres in the world ever lol



no arguments there, bought the car with em on, and have never been comfortable with them, one of those things, I'll do later, not got around to doing and it bites me in the ass


----------



## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

yeah bin them, they are rubbish.

i slid myself on to a large roundabout with a set of those once

(it was raining)


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

I know now, why the 200 guys love em, makes the drifting easier...


----------



## Kango_V (Jun 24, 2005)

Hey G, judging by those pictures, you need a new set of arms. Looks like the upper ones are a bit bent as well. Just hope the hicas rack is ok.

Just have to decide what arms to replace them with. As has been said, get the Nismo lower arms (are they Aluminium?).

I had some crappy tyres on which contributed to me spinning my s15 on the M4 . I'll not skimp on tyres on the GTR.


----------



## damodeane (Dec 23, 2010)

got away light


----------



## r32hams (Feb 16, 2011)

Those tyres look awfull,glad your ok,cars can be fixed quicker than people.


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

removed the upper arms and disconnected the lower wishbone, also removed the arb mounts, you can see how one side has been bent, compared to the good side one...

looks like as it hit low, most of the damage has happened to the weaker points low down 






















looking a lot straighter than before...













































































have bought upper and lower arms for both sides, just need to get a bigger breaker bar or remove driveshafts to get the hubs off, looks like the hicas ball joint will also have to be replaced on one side as the seal has split on there


----------



## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

when I went through this, sorting the suspension links was easy. The wheels gave me a headache and I had to replace the entire set, as I couldn't find a single Nismo LM-GT2 wheel with the correct width and offset.


----------



## jaycabs (Nov 16, 2007)

regardless of the tyre being a nankang , the tyre looks very degraded so very unlikely to make much grip .


----------



## WKZ 12 (Jun 23, 2012)

Sorry to hear 

But I don't think I would trust Nankangs on a car like this!


----------



## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

jaycabs said:


> regardless of the tyre being a nankang , the tyre looks very degraded so very unlikely to make much grip .


and i jus bought a star performare UHP for rear. hope it gives me more grip.
its from the same factory i think


----------



## jaycabs (Nov 16, 2007)

Tinoush said:


> and i jus bought a star performare UHP for rear. hope it gives me more grip.
> its from the same factory i think


ive never used nankang's on my R32 GTR but quite happily do on my previous family car and my current mk3 mondeo tdci as they do grip ok even in the wet with around 28-30 psi in them , alot better than many other cheap tyres about at similar prices .

my mondeo came with some cheap tyres on it some thing similar to a brand called DOUBLE STAR and they was some scary tyres in the dry let alone in the wet .

in the wet it was like driving on ice starting from slow speeds , i was laughing from the grip they had as if to thinking how can these be sold to use on the road lol and they wasnt even degraded as they was like new .

hence i changed those very quickly.


a while ago on my previous family car i got a puncture in my front right tyre ( nankang ) so just for a temporary measure i had to go to a local garage to get the cheapy put on until i could replace it with a nankang so after that later that day it started to rain and i could feel the front end wanted to let go a little easy so i thought maybe it was the poor grip of the new cheapy so decided to see how bad and do an emergency stop lol , abs kicks in only on the new cheapy as i could feel the tyre skipping trying its hardest to grip while all the other 3 nankangs was quite happily doing there job and slowing the car down with out any fuss.

only reason i never tried them on my R32 GTR was i needed more assurance from a tyre based on the speeds that i would some times do .


----------



## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Surely your best bet would be to get Dave at the GTR shop to build you a re-bushed complete rear sub frame and swap out the lot, I'm sure it would work out easier and cheaper?. 

It's really bad too the way that after market coil-overs corrode and rust there seems to be little effort made to paint them properly to at least allow a degree of protection it doesn't look as if Tein even use primer under the green paint?

Hope you can get it all sorted out soon.


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

oh yeah really disappointed at how long or not the Paint has lasted on the Tein coilys. 

noticed how bad they were on my other car where I have Tein bonnet dampers, within a year they had rusted, whereas others I know with much cheaper non branded ones of ebay lasted a lot longer without rusting..


----------



## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

jaycabs said:


> ive never used nankang's on my R32 GTR but quite happily do on my previous family car and my current mk3 mondeo tdci as they do grip ok even in the wet with around 28-30 psi in them , alot better than many other cheap tyres about at similar prices .
> 
> my mondeo came with some cheap tyres on it some thing similar to a brand called DOUBLE STAR and they was some scary tyres in the dry let alone in the wet .
> 
> ...


 
i am driving now 2 weeks with the star performers. front is achilles. they didn't have achilles anymore so i bought the star performer. 
to be honest i don't see much different in this and the potenza that i had before. on dry at least on wet i never drive my car that fast. it's just to risky. when i take a cornet or a roundabout with 2nd gear full power the back steps out. car is 440 hp so i think even semis cant help it. sorry for stealing the tupic guys


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

update on progress so far..

finally had some decent weather and managed to get hubs off





















test fit of replacement lower arm..






















though was gutted to find the seal around the ball joint on the lower arm has small split in it, 

wonder if the seal can be replaced or just the ball joint can be replaced? 

will be getting the hubs poly bushed where the arms connect, before I stick everything back on the car.


----------



## jaycabs (Nov 16, 2007)

ragt20 said:


> update on progress so far..
> 
> finally had some decent weather and managed to get hubs off
> 
> ...


Go onto ebay and type in TRACK ROD BOOT and you will get a good list were possibly one of those might fit as ive got them before because of split boot


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

cheers mate, all sorted, once I figured out how to remove the boot, replaced it with the boot on the bent arm, as that was in perfectly good condition, tapped it back onto this new arm and it sits perfectly..

now to get the poly bushes sorted on the hub side and find some Hicas ball joints as well..


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

finally after getting the hubs back from being rebushed, have got the car 90% back together, had also repainted the nismo arms as well. 






























































one of the other side...












main thing left to do is to find the rear anti roll bar mount bracket, and then I can get it on the road


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

finally after getting the rear arb poly mount bracket sorted, and stay bars repainted, got the last bits 
fitted and got it on the road  

drove fine today in the short test drive I took it for, wheel alignment left to do, hopefully I get an all clear 
from that and no problems




















































and before anyone mentions...yeah I need wheels with a much better offset on em..:chairshot


----------



## HeavyDuty (Apr 27, 2012)

It's a lot of work, looks like you did a lot of work to get it sorted. Hope all is well.


----------



## Kango_V (Jun 24, 2005)

Well done matey. Looking real good. I like the repainted Nismos :thumbs:


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

cheers guys, yeah, was plenty of work sorting it out, but also a good learning process. will be after JAE now when I get the chance to get the tracking sorted and get it back on the road proper


----------



## rockabilly (Oct 15, 2003)

Looks good mate.i have a pair of 20mm hubcentric spacers that will fit a 33gtr
interested?. 55 del


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

found out when I'd gone to get wheel alignment done, that the front track rod arm was also bent...thanks to Dave GTRshop and his mega quick delivery, got that yesterday got it fitted, car mot'd and wheel alignment done today...surprisingly the tracking wasn't that far out, but was out. all sorted and car now back on the road...

woohoo


----------



## HeavyDuty (Apr 27, 2012)

Wooohooo! Now let's don't do that again.


----------



## Robbo Fandango (Apr 5, 2012)

well done mate, Careful off the roundabouts in the future...

And i disagree with the letting off not causing an issue, IMO you definately dont want to be letting off and even breaking while in a slide. Science itself tells us thats going to give you a problem due to weight transfer.


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

ooh yeah, will be going round, roundabouts in this in granny driver mode :chairshot


----------



## ragt20 (Jun 28, 2003)

change of wheels as well today. got the LMGT2s they sit a lot better on the car, then the Weds Sports I have shown in earlier pics...










now to find some center caps that will fit, unless I find some genuine ones by some miracle lol...

long term plan is to get the LM GT2s refurbed as don't like the totally white finish, even the studs are white, think they need to be silver or black


----------



## Kango_V (Jun 24, 2005)

Hey, well done mate. Looking very good. Love the lmgt2s.


----------



## DINGER B (Jul 8, 2012)

Well done on getting it back on the road... Looks good,and it dose look good with them LM GT2s on.... :thumbsup:


----------



## Callon (Sep 20, 2012)

not good


----------

