# The Truth About Mats with Endless R33



## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

MATS ORIGINAL POST BELOW, with my facts in green, about time we put the record straight...

HI!

Finally my engine it´s finished unbelievable it just took nearly 3 years, at 
nearly 2,3 bar it made 1036.2 hp and 922.8 NM more info will come soon. 
This its the story why it took so long.

I met this F-ucker Rick colgate from Draganddrift when he startet his business
I bought the Endless-r R33GTR Drag R 8 sec car 1200ps from him. He told me that the engine its going to be rebuild, only thing they did was they changed 
the bearrings and 1 piston the cylinder head was focked leaking ass hell.
Yes You bought the car, and I worked my ass of for you going to Yokohama port 3 times only for you to get video etc of the car, as part of the service etc etc. The Engine was fully overhauled so I disagree with your statement above. 

I drove the car and was feeling something its not right but the car was quick 
i made [email protected] km/h at best. Still it was missing a lot of hp.
He drove the car, and now doubt overreved the engine and bent a valve

I said to Rick that the engine its not 100% he said that maybe the Endless-r
boy´s want to come over and race your car and fix the engine do a live mapping and do a 8 sec run (yeah right) . I tought about it and what the hell everything for the car i just want a 8sec GTR so why not. I paid for everybody to come over and i even send the cylinderhead in head so its fresh when they come over here.
I told Sugino san about Mattias engine failure and that Nabil (mattia`s mechanic friend had seen the bent valve) so Nabil removed the head and sent it back to Endless Japan. Mattias paid for the postage, thats all, the head was overhauled and returned to mattias.
Now when we were due to go to Sweden, to overhaul Mattias Car, Sugino san said, make sure mattias has a full selection of tools available.
Fast forward a bit, we landed in Sweden and Mattias took us too his shop. 
When Sugino san asked for a full workshop facilities, Mattias must have missunderstood, because when we arrived we just got a big bag off tools, no ramp, no tool chest......then we were given a torque rench that was not in KG, So Nabil set all the torque setting for Sugino san. This is where things went wrong, Nabils calculations were out which we found out on race day.
So after working for free in far less than adequate conditions the problem this time around was Mattias lack of organisation (what happened to the use of the BMW shop premises you promised us from day one?

I paid for the flights,hotells,food for 4 people including Rick but the guys 
wouldn´t charge me anything for the work on the car. We fixed the car 
in the last minute went to an airfeld to mapped the car before the big race 
Everything was fine the car was fast he said Suguno the mapper and the Boss
of Endless-r.
Yes you did, that was the deal.....it was service to make you a happy customer and was something sugino san wanted to do.
When we were setting up the car, mapping at Mattia`s friends airfield we needed to check the cars timing......Mattis timing light he provided us was for 4 Cylinder and 8 Cylinder cars!!! couldnt read 6 cylinders, so mattias called another friend who had a GT-S and we checked the readings to compair both cars, both seemed to match but fine tuning coulndt be achieved as sugino san couldnt know all data. Sugino san was not convinced 100% but we didnt have any spare time as the next day was race day

Next day its race day, First 2 runs he made 10 low sec runs.
I was thinking something its wrong this car its a 8 sec car and 1200ps 
Suguno said the fuel its wrong (vpms109 unleaded) not good.
This is a blatent lie, I didnt choose VP fuels YOU chose VP fuels because you V8 drag friend could import it and supply you to SwedenRick told me to buy this fuel and i did but seems to be wrong like everything else. 
Race day after the runs, Sugino san said the car is so slow, and it showed because of the time. So he automatically assumed its the fuel, as would anyone, but we know now the reason is not the maping, its because the head was lifting off on every run because of the torque settings being incorrectI phoned a couple of people when we where on the race because Suguno wanted to know the air burning point on the fuel ore something like that. The guy on the phone told me its all in the mapping nothing to do with the fuel, who should i believe i am not a mapper so he made some other runs
and managed a 9.93 at best, but i can tell you Suguno know how to drive 
He came 2 place on the first to the light contest.


I talked to the guy´s at Endless-r the day before they are going home about my engine. He said with this fuel i could do this engine with 10 in compression
and 2.5 bar because this fuel it´s to good for this engine and have to low 
compression now for this fuel, but he said its going to be expensive and i have to send the engine to them.
Mattias then asked, I want the fastest GTR out there, what do I need, so Sugino san told him what could be done. That was where the conversation finished

Next car is back in Japan, we open up the engine and sugino san calls me over, rick, there is coolent in the oil pan......so we drain the oil out, head comes off, and the head gasket is like new, only a slight impression on the head gasket, sugino san knew instantly what had happened, the block pressure had lifted the head and water had been sucked into the oil ways During this time I had several conversations with Mattis on the phone, What we originally suggessted to Mattias, was high responce engine hence high compression, then for some reason mattias compleatly changed his mind, he now wanted the most powerful car (2 very different things) one chases ET one chases trap speed. So the spec changed alot, from carbon prop shaft to no carbon prop shaft to the 1.0mm special order metal headgasket (we still have on the shelf today).....most power it is....(I have to say again, Mattias still to this day I believe does not understand the difference in responce vs power and I quote "rick I just want the most power from the engine, if it blows up after one run, F&'K it, just give me most power.
Sugino wanted to drive the car for mattias in japan, to show mattias what time can be achieved, but Mattias again was too impaitient, he wanted the car sent back asap, where as Sugino san wanted to give him a timing slip. So instead on a rainy day, trust 3rd in command organiese a slot at Super Auto bacs in Osaka, as they had the 4wd dyno that was 1000hp rated. So we started the dyno in 4wd, map the car again but the dyno cant seem to keep the car on the rollers, so to make things safe, we dyno in RWD...after a few hours setting etc we get a reading of 1000.5rwhp, at 2.3bar no nos, as were putting the car on the trailer mattias calls, I told him the great news, and his reply was something along the lines of, thats boring......I wanted to know the max hp, then I have a 10min conversation trying to explain to him what 1000.5rwhp meant in engine hp......and that we didnt get to use the NOS even tho we wanted as Super Auto Bacs said we were already at the limit of the machine......so Mattias go the figures he wanted.....most powerful R33 GTR in Japan, as tested independantly by HKS racing in 2001 and Super Autobacs in 2008

So what did I get out of this i will tell you a f-cked up economy and a 
f-cked up engine and a massive headache.
Mattias needed someone to blaim, and its easy to vent his anger at us, but the real problem here can be found sitting between the recaro seat and veilside steeringwheel, thats the truth

So what did Rick get out of this, He got a job at Endless-r and many coctacts
in Sweden to sell parts and cars and a free vacation.

I tought about it and send the whole car in a container to them. 
I tought now he have the car at his place it can go wrong 

They got the car late November-07 and i wanted it before may-08.
Rick said its no problem at all Mats. 
The job they would do its to make the engine at 10 in compression and 
2.5 bar so it matched the fuel i haid like he said he could do. Change the 
Intercoller to a 5 layer and the piping and all the fuel lines and Nos. 
He would take it to a 1/4 mile track to test the car before he would send it to me he said to. He told me after a couple of days of thinking that he will 
not go for so high compression because he could not run so much boost then.
I said fine you´re the man go fot it.

This its what he did:

8.9:1 comp
2.3 bar
5 layer intercoler and piping to bigger
Changed the fuel lines to a pro ***** system
Painted the whole interior
changed the exhaust
Run it on the dyno
Just installed the Nos, didnt even try it
Mapped the car on the dyno on different fuel because The VP fuel didnt
work for this engine.

Spec is actually
Port over Fees (tax implication with sending car to Japan for short time)
Port Collection 
Returning car to port NOT PAID
Head Cut + Processing 
NOS + Installation
Head Gasket 1.0mm NOT PAID FOR
Pro ***** fuel system
Acryllic Glass +Rubber
Trust 5 layer intercooler
New intercooler piping
Titanium Muffler changed and processed NOT PAID
Setting up the Fcon NOT PAID
New TE37 alloy wheels
Repainting of interior NOT PAID
fuel cost x 60ltrs NOT PAID
Dyno cost for one day NOT PAID
clutch sleve changed NOT PAID
HKS drag wheels x 4
Labour charges NOT PAID

Yen: 300,000 returned to Mattias


I paid this guys nearly 10000 pounds in advance beside the shipping for this shit that he do and nearly nothing i order from the start besides changed the 
intercoler+piping and the Nos. Rick told me this car haid 1200ps before when 
i bought it but how come it have less after the magic you guys over there did.

I was mad ass hell, i felt like a f-cking idiot to trusted this f-ckers again.
I told Rick this its not right were its my 2.5 bar and a live mapping.
He told me youre tires its f-cked so its dangerous to go to the track so we 
took it to a dyno. I said i want you guys to do what i paid for and shipped the car asap. 

Rick got pissed and said you have to pay nearly 7000 pounds if you want the car back because all the extra stuff they have done on the car like the dyno
and stuff like that. Didnt believe my ears but thats the true, i paid him the 
money i got my car in late May missed the race because they couldnt finished the car in time they only haid nearly 6 months.

I drove the car 3 times(1 time with the Nos) when i got it from the container it was fast but the the engine didnt sound right. Number 1-2 pistonring was 
burned in to the pistons because of the detonations ore to little fuel.

To make a long story short my engine was f-cked as usual changed all the 
pistons couldnt used them any more i got CORRECTION YET AGAIN, SUGINO GAVE YOU YEN 300,000 back and cancelled alot of work30000jpy from the Endless-r 
so i could take the car to a local shop so they could fix there problem.
30000jpy dont even cover the shippment and he think that he did a good 
deed for giving the money.

Email copied from MATS
Hi Rick!

The car it´s like night and day if you compare to before.

I made 4 runs did not launch just started on 3 gear because off the bad clutch and i want to see how the
enigine revs. (DID NOT CHANGE SPARK PLUGS AT ALL and driven on a runway that is far from clean)

The first run was on 1.6 bar the lowest ****ing quick.

second run was on 1.8 bar dont now what to say, i made 270km/h so fast it´s unbelievable fast.

The 3 run was on nos and 1.6 bar i have to tell you that nos its the shit.
When i started on the 3 gear with full throttle i was looking at the rpm meter so hard you can really feel
when the nos its comming best feeling ever i think i am in love  The car its revving so fast when i had the 
nos on its scary and that its with the lowest boost imagine on 2.3 bar ****ing hell. If i dont do a 9 like you said on
1.6-1.7 bar i should sell the car but promise me i will do it easy, the car its so fast if you compare to before 
its unreal and the sound speechlees.

The 4 run was back on 1.8 bar just to see how its like with out nos big difference like i said 
nos its the shit i love it. 

on the 2-4 run it was spinning from the 3-4 gear scary and i dont joke. The car was spinning with nos quit hard
and i think i need a parachute btw.
When i let the car to cooldown then i was going to take it on the trailer 
The 1 and 2 cylinder didn´t work, we checked the sparplugs and changed to 6 brandnew sparplugs
diidnt want to work so we checked the valve´s on the 1-2 cylinder it had fuel on it.
Checked the splitfires it was giving a sparkle nothing wrong with them but the sparkle 
its not so strong on all splitfires.

Me and nabil going to do a leakdown test tomorrow and see what that give us for result.

I didnt even go more than 9000-9500rpm and i didnt launch the car i was starting on 3 gear all the time
because i just want to know how the engine it´s revving. 

The 4wd button its little bit strange to because when i push the button on the center dash board
the light on the dashboard its still on what ever i tried to do its not getting off still shining. 

Can you ask suguno what i should do, what he want us to test .

keep youre phone on tomorrow i am going to do a leakdown test tomorrow and tell you the results
i dont think its something bad fingers crossed.

Mats

So my engine its finally finished didnt drive anything in the summer but you are going to se me next summer i can promise you.

I have to thank Rimbo Martin and The Mapper Tommy (junggrensmotorteknik)
for the magic Thanks guys.

I dont know how to thank this guy Nabil (MN performance) for everything he have done for me without you this engine would never be alive Thanks alot.

I almost forgott You Mick begley thanks for everything without you this forum 
would be shit and Tweenirob for the telephone support thanks guys. 

I have proof of everything if anybody want to see and its a lot more stuff they did wrong ore Rick.

Video of the dyno and sheet will come asap.

Regards 

Mats[/I]

No Doubt to be continued again:chairshot


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## Dynamix (Nov 1, 2007)

I wish you two could just put it behind you and move forward instead of digging up the past. It's obvious you guys have a difference of opinion, but what has that got to do with anyone else but you two?


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## Eikichi (Jul 25, 2006)

I say it's always good to get both sides of the story & see what happens.


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## NISMO-GTR (Jan 28, 2006)

As said it is always nice to hear both sides of the story before concluding what you think is best for the situation to be resolved.

It still might not be everything that is needed here but moving forward:

Endless - when you have a customer like this who clearly has more money than sense, id be tempted to use this situation as a scenario and make sure the customer is fully aware of any differences between power & response. You say "to this day i dont think he knows the difference" - whys that, have you tried as many ways as you can think of in how to tell someone the difference between power & response?? the guys obviously loaded so unless he's one of those lucky people who's won the lottery, then he should have a tightly screwed on head (or so you would think). There are many ways to comunicate something if person A cant make person B understand. :thumbsup:

Customer of Endless (in this particular situation) - LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY to what the specialists are telling you, in any scenario. saying things like "just give me the bestest power dont care if engine blows after first run" sint going to fill the specialist (in this case Endless) with much hope the car would be well maintained or treated right after purchase. make sure you know what you want to get out of the car in the first instance, tell the tuner i want a car to do x y and z and await a call saying its all finished. Keep in contact with your tuner to ask how things are coming along, if theres any problems and if so, how you have got around them - learn about what your paying for.


Its never nice to hear about bad dealings in any situation, but i hope this all gets sorted and both parties are happy(ish) with the outcome


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

Rick/

Whats wrong with you, Answer this question

What did Suguno san said when we were sitting in the café when he
vrote on the paper about the engine and the fuel?

Who changed the plans that we haid before i send the car and dont lie?

Why did i buy vp109 because you said HKS its 110 octane and this was 
the closest we got, When i told you that they are no 110 octane
unleaded fuel with that high octane you said well buy it anyway it should work. But you didn´t know that HKS fuel was leaded thats why we 
could not get that high octane true ore false?

Tell the truth about why you didn´t drive the car on the dragstrip
like you said on the first time because you said to me that that you´re tires
are to bad to drive on the strip and i have to buy new one then you are going to take it on the strip. I told you to put the dragtires i bought and take it for a spinn so because i wanted a live mapping. you said Suguno will drive it only with the nitto555r tires true ore false?

You told me the car it´s going to be ready to osaka auto meet in Februari
true ore false?

You said that its going on the dyno i didnt want that and 
i never ordered that?


I have so much more like the fuelsystem you connect the fuellines 
from the fuelpumps to the original pipeline what about that, Do you
think that original fuellines can deliver fuel to 1000hp .....Amatuers?

I will take a picture on the interior that you painted to show people the quality you have.

I will write more tomorrow because my friends are waiting on me and i have to go see you tomorrow.

Mats


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## MacGTR (Dec 31, 2006)

Chaps, the forum is no place to be having this conversation.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

MacGTR said:


> Chaps, the forum is no place to be having this conversation.


Why dude?

This is the place for all Skyline related people to have there say.

If they want to have it out which it looks like.

Let the truth be told I say.

Why hide.

There is to many dodgy people that hide away and never get found out.

It lets fellow owners realize what they are dealing with.

Mick


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## MacGTR (Dec 31, 2006)

In my opinion, most of this just turns into a slagging match. When it is all sorted out then its good to hear the real story rather than all of these conflicting statements we are seeing here.


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## G40tee (Feb 25, 2008)

personally i think that this is a good place to set things straight.
im not going to comment on any of it as i am waaay out of this but if endless want to get this issue out of their heads and mats wants to have his say then let them.

just dont get it out of hand so the thread is closed.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

i agree with mick and g40, after reading mats bit the other day i thought to myself that i wont use endless for stuff. But Now Endless has replied and i have read ther comments i thought maybe there not so bad and maybe i will use them. 

There is always two sides to a story and its nice to see both sides so you can make up your own minds who you belive is correct.

However i dont think anyone else should be sticking there noses in ( not that anybody has yet ) to stirr things up etc. 

Lets hope they keep it clean so the thread stays open and they can come to some sort of agrement of whos right and wrong


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

G40tee said:


> personally i think that this is a good place to set things straight.
> im not going to comment on any of it as i am waaay out of this but if endless want to get this issue out of their heads and mats wants to have his say then let them.
> 
> just dont get it out of hand so the thread is closed.


Agree 100%

Mick


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

mattysupra said:


> There is always two sides to a story and its nice to see both sides so you can make up your own minds who you belive is correct.
> 
> However i dont think anyone else should be sticking there noses in ( not that anybody has yet ) to stirr things up etc.
> 
> Lets hope they keep it clean so the thread stays open and they can come to some sort of agrement of whos right and wrong


Wise words.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

I dont want to get involved in whatever is going on here, but my personal experience with Endless-R and Rick personally has always been good.

One thing is for sure, before any work started Rick, Sugino-san and I all exchanged multiple multiple e-mails about what my project would cost and my budget and my goals, and their recommendations and WHY they recommend them. 

I knew what i wanted and made sure i stuck to my guns on a lot of things. in fact i probably went overkill on some parts but i knew what i wanted. 

Anyway, my experience with them has been great, i did go over budget, but it was always my fault :chuckle: 

I will reserve my judgment on how the car drives when i can drive it, but as for my confidence in Endless-R and experience in their work, it has been 100% since day 1.

My main rule with Endless-R and my project, was it had an Unlimited time scale, i told them to take as long as they need to make sure everything was 100%.


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## HenrikE (Mar 23, 2006)

Rain said:


> My main rule with Endless-R and my project, was it had an Unlimited time scale, i told them to take as long as they need to make sure everything was 100%.


hehe hard to get things wrong when you have "unlimited" money and all the time you want? 
Not quite fair comparision i think.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

m6beg said:


> Let the truth be told I say.
> 
> Why hide.
> 
> ...


Perfect Touch anyone?????

Only stirring (ish) 

:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:
:flame:

As for the original topic I would say that at some point in a tuners business 'journey' there will always be 1 or 2 occasions when a customer is at odds with the tuner. There are clearly 2 sides to the story here. 
I have dealt with Endless-R in the past for parts and have been very satisfied with both price and speed of despatch. I havent bought a full car from them so cant comment on that. 


TT


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

So now it´s my fault that the engine did not go well, haha yore funny Rick 

1- I have 13 Years experience to working with Volvo 12 and 16 litre truck engines so I know how to set an Torque Wrench. otherwise I have been fired for long time ago from my work. 

2- You never Tightening the Cylinder Head Bolts on Mats car after that the engine reached normal temperature after first start.

3- You did not no how to check the timing, it was nothing wrong with the timing light.
You just connect the wires wrong for the timing light. 

4- You used so high timig (ignition) and that is another thing who can blow the head gasket/ head lift.

5- I wrote this last time and will do it again. When a car dont have an fuel system and turbochargers who can support 1000+hp how can you say that this car have 1000+hp?
That should show lack of knowledge from your side.

Finish and out from me for now.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

HenrikE said:


> hehe hard to get things wrong when you have "unlimited" money and all the time you want?
> Not quite fair comparision i think.


Clarification here: I had a limited budget, just unlimited time.

That is all.


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

NISMO-GTR said:


> As said it is always nice to hear both sides of the story before concluding what you think is best for the situation to be resolved.
> 
> It still might not be everything that is needed here but moving forward:
> 
> ...


Hi!

I didn´t make my money by being stupid, but Rick It´s the biggest ****ing liar 
i know and i covered his ass many times.

When a tuner tell you that he can do this ore that and that its no problem
you trust them, I didnt even had a idle on the car the guy couldn´t 
fix that, thats only one thing of 100 other things.

I have own the car nearly 3 years and how many times have you read about the car about being on the dragstrip, Never... because its always something wrong with it and they didnt know how to fix it.

Before they went home from Sweden Suguno mapped the car one more time
because i wasn´t happy with the situation the car was not 100%.

He plugged in his computer and with the car parked in the garage he mapped 
it without running it just rev the engine sometimes and he told me that if 
you have to buy 103 octane fuel and the car its going to fly. 

I mean i have a drag car and this guy its mapping it in a ****ing garage when its parked and not doing at least a live mapping only rev the engine a little
bit when its parked, that its professional ore what.

Mats


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

What we originally suggessted to Mattias, was high responce engine hence high compression, then for some reason mattias compleatly changed his mind, he now wanted the most powerful car (2 very different things) one chases ET one chases trap speed. So the spec changed alot, from carbon prop shaft to no carbon prop shaft to the 1.0mm special order metal headgasket (we still have on the shelf today).....most power it is....(I have to say again, Mattias still to this day I believe does not understand the difference in responce vs power and I quote "rick I just want the most power from the engine, if it blows up after one run, F&'K it, just give me most power


This its so much bullshit its unbelievable, We didnt go for the carbon propshaft because you said that it could not hold for 1000hp+.

What are you talking about like special order head gasket, you´re the experts
i have never told you to order anything special like head gasket.

I just wanted my engine to be build after the vpms109 fuel i had and Suguno
said no problem. 

You remember the paper he wrote at on the café we were on, He changed the set up because he said that if the engine have so high compression 
we can´t go for 2.5 bar boost maybe 2 bar at best. He said why not take 
the best of the the 2 like little bit lower compression and go for higher boost
than we were agreed at first. Suguno said trust me and i did that :chairshot

Mats


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

simple fact is that a 1000-1200 hp engine is no use and you are too far past the true limit of this engine (it will last for a very limited time before the inevitable), it will need constant looking after and will drive like a dog and probably never idle too well either. but i guess when its running down a strip it flys 

The Issues are that people are expecting more reliability and useability than is simply possible from something as highly strung as that. Basically you need a team of engineers at all times with such a beast and adjustments / tuning will be never ending and probably occour after every run.

If you didnt want to have *constant* problems then you shouldnt have tried to go for soooo much power. Problem is that you have probably been sold it in the context that because they are such well known tuners they can do the impossible and it will run perfectly without properly advising you of the *constant *maintainance and issues you will face.....

If you are going down the route of building the fastest of anything then you should really realise that it is going to be a very expensive, very time consuming, very problematic and never fun apart from the very short period of time when the cars flying down the 1/4 mile strip.

I dont understand why people with blank chequebooks that dont know exactly what they need, are doing this ? If you are spending that level of cash and its this important to you then i would learn first and understand what it takes and needs to get what you want.

on the other hand tuners should not sell a solution to a customer and provide false expectations of an engine that will just start and run without issues on drag days with occasional trips back to the garage, they should advise just how much effort and grief it takes to do what keith/mick etc etc are all doing because it sounds like a lot of people think that all it takes is money. 

I dont know of anyone on here that doesnt have these problems constantly when they run such high power cars - look at what happens to everyone everytime at TOTB etc, its not just because they have bad luck on the day, its because running the top high power cars = neverending problems and if you are not a team of mechanics then you are going to spend most of your time taking your car to the tuner and not much driving it on the strip at all.


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

plkettle said:


> simple fact is that a 1000-1200 hp engine is no use and you are too far past the true limit of this engine (it will last for a very limited time before the inevitable), it will need constant looking after and will drive like a dog and probably never idle too well either. but i guess when its running down a strip it flys
> 
> The Issues are that people are expecting more reliability and useability than is simply possible from something as highly strung as that. Basically you need a team of engineers at all times with such a beast and adjustments / tuning will be never ending and probably occour after every run.
> 
> ...



I understand what you mean but its difference when you drive the car 
on 1.6 bar and only 3 runs max 1.8 bar after you had you´re car fixed,
and all 5 pistons are ****ed.

They told me that we will not take it higher boost then 2.3 bar 
because its safe to have it like that.

I dont know if you are building engine but when something goes wrong 
it´s because something it´s not right ore the parts do not support that
not because you have 1000hp+ 

If you have the right parts,mapping and take care of it like you should
it will not brake after one run.

Mats


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## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Anybody wanna buy a Pro Mod? LOL

If you think GTR's are expensive when they go pop, imagine having to rebuild a 6 second Pro Mod 


:chuckle:




ps: This thread is getting better and better, there are new things coming to light every day.


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

the 1200bhp car was supplied with stock fuel lines?, am i reading that right?


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

T.F.S. said:


> the 1200bhp car was supplied with stock fuel lines?, am i reading that right?


Yes and no.

1 fuel line was stock and 1 was changed.


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

T.F.S. said:


> the 1200bhp car was supplied with stock fuel lines?, am i reading that right?


1 fuelpump was right but the other one was supplied by the stock fuel lines.
And they said that the engine haid 1200hp when the fuelpumps only support
450hp max if you have the right fuellines to supplie and the turbos maximum 850-900hp. How can they get 1200ps i don´t understand when the fuel
and the turbos cant deliever close to that.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Matts.

What turbos are on the car again please?

Mick.


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Matts.
> 
> What turbos are on the car again please?
> 
> Mick.


Hi Mick!

Now it´s turbonetics gt35killers are rated to 600whp remember thats the 
american whp so you i dont know if its 100% on the power.

Before it was the TDO6-25g.

Mats


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## minos (Sep 21, 2006)

how can a turbo be rated WHP ? what if you have like 50% drivetrain loss?


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

OK peeps, this as you know is a dispute between 2 people. It would be appreciated if it could stay that way without others joining in.


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## 260Z (Jun 2, 2008)

minos said:


> how can a turbo be rated WHP ? what if you have like 50% drivetrain loss?


Ask Turbonetics if you want an answer


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Matsson said:


> Hi Mick!
> 
> Now it´s turbonetics gt35killers are rated to 600whp remember thats the
> american whp so you i dont know if its 100% on the power.
> ...


Hi Matts.

I had the same turbos on the Lemon TD06-25g. Good for around 900 bhp.


Mick


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

hodgie said:


> OK peeps, this as you know is a dispute between 2 people. It would be appreciated if it could stay that way without others joining in.



>........:clap:


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

260Z said:


> So now it´s my fault that the engine did not go well, haha yore funny Rick
> 
> 1- I have 13 Years experience to working with Volvo 12 and 16 litre truck engines so I know how to set an Torque Wrench. otherwise I have been fired for long time ago from my work.
> 
> ...


Hello Nabil, 

Firstly I should appoligies, It may not have been you, but could have been a faulty torque wrench Which we will never know so we have to reserve judgement. 

As for timing light, are you honestly going to tell the members of the forum that we do not know how to use a timing light? I do remember somone saying that the timing light was for V8 engines or 4 cylinder engines. Hence why the timing was checked on another car. And the degree matched. What you cannot dissagree with is once we had mattias car back in Japan and the "lifting head" was fixed that the car did make 1000.5rwhp and that the fuel system did supply enough fuel pressure as the idle fuel pressure was increased, hence why the car made the power.....made 8sec runs which are available on the internet for all too see. 

So my question to you and mats, did the car not make 1000.5rwhp at autobacs last year? 

Re trust turbos, there are different models of TD06-25G. With many of them providing different power levels as you seem to be unaware. 

Mattias car was running TD06-25GSH which is rated by mitsubishi and trust as a 600hp turbo at 2.2 bar, Mick I am not sure what turbos you were running, but I am sure if your claim of 900hp must mean you were running smaller turbos than the Endless R33 TD06-20G perhaps?










Rick


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## R34Nismo (Oct 3, 2002)

i love a good old skool handbagging fight starts * picks up popcorn *


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Rick i agree with you 100% they are deffo 600ps in a single form. As you have all 6 cylinders blowing the one turbo.

But you will never ever get 1200 from the two. Its impossible.

Ahh unless you had a 300 shot on noz?

900 bhp maxed out. 

Mick

edit to say sorry for messing the thread up it's not my fight. I wont post on this again.


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

EndlessR said:


> Hello Nabil,
> 
> Firstly I should appoligies, It may not have been you, but could have been a faulty torque wrench Which we will never know so we have to reserve judgement.
> 
> ...



Rick/

I phoned to greddy trust in japan and he told me the specification.
The only difference this turbo was from the normal was that mine had
5 mm trust collar instead of 3ore 4mm i dont remeber 100% thats the only difference.

I even emailed you about it if you could order one for me.

The car could not make that horsepower, we had the engine on the dyno
with the old setup with your camtiming the engine made 760-770 hp and we tried with different timing that was the best we got. Then we changed the 
camshafts we got 40 hp+ to 810hp it made but remember this was with 12
injectors 650cc each not like you had 6 injectors 1000cc each. Btw the mapper fixed that we had an idle to was no problem at all.

With the new turbos it made 1000+hp.

Its big difference between when you mapping the car on the rolling dyno 
like you did and when you do a live mapping when the car its on the road.


Let see what people think i had:

2 Bosch 0 580 254 979 fuel pump provides 165LPH of flow and operate at 72.5 PSI over 7 years old this fuelpumps that was in my car.

6 injectors 1000cc each but remeber one off them was supplied with stock 
fuelline.

2 TDO6-25G turbos at maxboost 2.3 bar


So people what do you think could this set up make nearly 1150-1200hp.


Mats


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## Taiquri (Jan 15, 2007)

Matsson said:


> 1 fuelpump was right but the other one was supplied by the stock fuel lines.
> And they said that the engine haid 1200hp when the fuelpumps only support
> 450hp max if you have the right fuellines to supplie and the turbos maximum 850-900hp. How can they get 1200ps i don´t understand when the fuel
> and the turbos cant deliever close to that.



Stock metal fuel pipe (under the car) with AN6 hoses + good fuelrail works ok with 700hp. I got 667hp with that set up and no problem with lines.. Can you tell fuel pump specs? What is wrong with that fuel set up?


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

m6beg said:


> Rick i agree with you 100% they are deffo 600ps in a single form. As you have all 6 cylinders blowing the one turbo.
> 
> But you will never ever get 1200 from the two. Its impossible.
> 
> ...



Hi Mick!

Post as much as you want. Its only the truth you are writing.

Like you said its difference when you have 1 ore 2 turbos.


Mats


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Matsson said:


> Rick/
> 
> I phoned to greddy trust in japan and he told me the specification.
> The only difference this turbo was from the normal was that mine had
> ...


Mats it can't make that power the turbos are too small.

Like i have said above 900 bhp is the max you will get out of these.


Mick


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Had a lot of deals with Rick and everything was perfect,if i would by a car from japan again,id would be supplied by Rick/Endless.......

The chances something is not 100% is smaller on a 400hp car then on a 1000hp + car...........so i think its just your problem,Matsson........

turn it around as often as you want,you will never be happy,whatever Rick/Endless would do.........:chuckle:


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

Taiquri said:


> Stock metal fuel pipe (under the car) with AN6 hoses + good fuelrail works ok with 700hp. I got 667hp with that set up and no problem with lines.. Can you tell fuel pump specs? What is wrong with that fuel set up?


You are only building pressure nothing else. 

Ask a good tuner and he will tell you why.

Mats


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

EvolutionVI said:


> Had a lot of deals with Rick and everything was perfect,if i would by a car from japan again,id would be supplied by Rick/Endless.......
> 
> The chances something is not 100% is smaller on a 400hp car then on a 1000hp + car...........so i think its just your problem,Matsson........
> 
> turn it around as often as you want,you will never be happy,whatever Rick/Endless would do.........:chuckle:



I am not turning anythin around i am just telling the truth.

Have Rick emailed you to post over here to support him like he was emailing
me and crying everytime he had a problem.

...... Suguno drove my car with more then 20 years of
dragracing experience and he managed a 9.93 on a real track with glue i managed to do 10.21 without the glue and its was on a airfield and not
heating the tires ass long that he did.

Mats


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## Dynamix (Nov 1, 2007)

Matsson said:


> I am not turning anythin around i am just telling the truth.
> 
> Have Rick emailed you to post over here to support him like he was emailing
> me and crying everytime he had a problem.
> ...


Thats just as stupid as saying you're calling mick and asking him to support the ' TD06-25GSH's wont make 1200ps ' argument for you. EvolutionVI is giving his opinion of dealings with Endless just as you mechanic and friends are giving there opinions of what happened with Endless.

Atleast you could be polite and show the same respect others are showing you and leave out the language..


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## plkettle (Feb 2, 2004)

i think there are problems here on both sides.

However I have to say the point that a single 600hp rated turbo will not produce 1200hp if you use 2 for the simple reason as mick has said that the twin setup has to share the exhaust flow being used to drive the turbine wheels and therefore nowhere near as efficient.

also im dubious that the stock fuel line can handle 1000whp or 2 x 165 LPH fuel pumps can flow enough to produce that ? 

Dynos can be configured to produce any result so im doubting the 1000whp claim on this setup unless NOS was being used ? 

Certainly not the setup i would want running 1000hp - what exactly was the list of parts you bought and had on the car for your £10,000 ?


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## SafT (May 20, 2004)

Didnt avance trap around 171mph on a 25g twin setup?


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

opcorn:


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

SafT said:


> Didnt avance trap around 171mph on a 25g twin setup?


So they say mate.

Was it running on Noz?

I haven't ever seen any proof myself though.

I would love to see a video of it.

Again sorry for the hijack I will start a new thread.

Mick.


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

TheD said:


> opcorn:


This is the last warning, anyone else joining in with posts like this and your banned. If your not involved in this keep out.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

SafT said:


> Didnt avance trap around 171mph on a 25g twin setup?


I have taken this away from here dude to give this post a good chance.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/111404-advance-drag-car.html

Hope you don't mind.


Mick


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

Dynamix said:


> Thats just as stupid as saying you're calling mick and asking him to support the ' TD06-25GSH's wont make 1200ps ' argument for you. EvolutionVI is giving his opinion of dealings with Endless just as you mechanic and friends are giving there opinions of what happened with Endless.
> 
> Atleast you could be polite and show the same respect others are showing you and leave out the language..


I have never called Mick ore any one else to say that this will not support
1200ps.

Mick its the only guy on this forum that make it worth of being a member of.

When i got my car for nearly 3 years ago and put in the forum he was the only one that welcomed me and put his number on a pm and told me
that whenever you need anything ore know anything about the GTR:s
Call me whenever you want. 

The forum its about to share the experience and so on........
sometimes the truth hurts and thats the only thing we are saying.

Mick have had the same setup i had and he knows what he are talking about.

Mats


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Matsson said:


> You are only building pressure nothing else.
> 
> Ask a good tuner and he will tell you why.
> 
> Mats


I also spoke to Trust on my TD06-25G turbos Mats, When i had the on the Lemon.

They said.

They are singing and dancing at 1.8/1.9 bar of boost. After that pressure will build and the heat will give you less power. Which was the case.


Mick


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## Light-R (Apr 23, 2007)

i have never experienced personally with endless, but in more than one occasion, rick tried to help me any way he could. thumbs up for that.

what would probably be the best, would be if you 2 guys could resolve your divergencies with friendship.

we have seen plausible posts from both members.

not criticising, as it might appear.

i am not judging every tuner by the same law, but when i bought my gt-r, it was advertised (by the japanese seller) as having 600ps.

on this 600ps setup i could see, 600cc injectos (which i replaced by 1000cc when the car was retuned in the uk), stock AFMs (which i replaced by nismo ones), stock ecu tuned by auto file japan (which i replaced for a power fc).

on my supposed 600ps setup i had infact 475. presently it produced 650ps on a dyno dynamics.

what i am trying to say, is that sometimes there are errors in communication (in my case it was probably just a bad lie).

i am sure that you guys can sort it out as i did. 

cheers to you all


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

Light-R said:


> i have never experienced personally with endless, but in more than one occasion, rick tried to help me any way he could. thumbs up for that.
> 
> what would probably be the best, would be if you 2 guys could resolve your divergencies with friendship.
> 
> ...


Imagen if you would send the car back paid a lot of money and got 5 burned pistons and still didnt have you´re 600ps.

I was trying to sort it but he told me to pay more money otherwise i wouldn´t
get my car back because they did things that i didn´t order and they wanted to get paid fore.

Mats

Mats


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

I made 560hp at the hubs on stock fuel lines and one walbro fuelpump! Shocking news!! 

I would like to see the dynoprint for the 1000.5whp dyno run 

Edit: It was on 98unleaded fuel also...


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## Taiquri (Jan 15, 2007)

Asim R32GTR said:


> I made 560hp at the hubs on stock fuel lines and one walbro fuelpump! Shocking news!!
> 
> I would like to see the dynoprint for the 1000.5whp dyno run
> 
> Edit: It was on 98unleaded fuel also...


I used 98unleaded too. And 290lph fuel pump..


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## Light-R (Apr 23, 2007)

i know the market is full of good cars.

but its a shame (and i am not saying its the case) that some sellers advertise aboce what it really is to sell their cars (once again, i am not saying its endless case).

when i bought my car i would prefer to be told that it had 475 and try to sort a deal out than to be told it had 600 and then having to pay another 2000 to get it right.

one thing is for sure, the chassis is well taken care of and there is almost no rust.

well, my final idea, is that the market being full of good cars shouldnt be the reason that the sellers advertise them as being above spec. i always sold my cars with low figures just to try and make sure that they are in fact correct. if the true value is above, then the buyer should be a happy person


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## Light-R (Apr 23, 2007)

tomei fuel pump and stock lines for me too.

just fuel pressure regulator, bigger injectors and fuel pump mod


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## Matsson (Mar 26, 2007)

Guys its a massive difference to have 1000hp+ and 5-600hp
you cant compare. I think the gtr its good for max 600hp on stock engine
besides bigger injector and fuel pump and regulator.

Mats


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## Asim R32GTR (Sep 24, 2003)

Matsson said:


> Guys its a massive difference to have 1000hp+ and 5-600hp
> you cant compare. I think the gtr its good for max 600hp on stock engine
> besides bigger injector and fuel pump and regulator.
> 
> Mats


If what you say is correct, what will be the result if you ad a second and bigger fuel line? 

Just to make sure, im NOT taking any side in this matter, just sharing my experience 

Asim


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## Samuel Cross (Aug 2, 2002)

Matsson said:


> I have never called Mick ore any one else to say that this will not support
> 1200ps.
> 
> *Mick its the only guy on this forum that make it worth of being a member of.*
> ...




Such sweeping generalisations are not exactly helpful.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Samuel Cross said:


> Such sweeping generalisations are not exactly helpful.


And your input on this discussion is???

Quoted by Hodgie!!

This is the last warning, anyone else joining in with posts like this and your banned. If your not involved in this keep out. 


Mick


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

COME ON PEOPLE! THIS IS NOT OUR ARGUMENT SO LETS ALL STAY OUT OF IT !

WE DONT NEED TO TAKE SIDES HERE, LET THE LADS HAVE IT OUT AND MAKE YOUR OWN MIND UP AT THE END. WE HAVE ENDED UP WITH 4 USELESS PAGES HERE! 

Sorry for shouting!


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

I remember this car coming over to the UK Mats.

I didnt know you at the time.

It landed in Southampton and a friend of mine collected it for Rick.

There was a starting issue at the garage fueled the plugs up as expected.

He removed the plugs to put new one in and there it was 1 brand new shiny piston in number 3 the rest were used.

We all said mmmm.

I have a lot more i could say but i will leave it until Rick has a chance to reply.


Mick


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## playasyougo (Nov 29, 2003)




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## Light-R (Apr 23, 2007)

not saying its the case.

but lets hope that japanese sellers are not trying to sell the crappy cars over here.

i have seen tons of cars that look really good.

from endless (the supreme blue r34), and from others


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

playasyougo said:


>



maybe it should be locked from everyone apart from the two having the dispute?

Give it a try mods, it may just work! Hogie knows what im on about!


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

My final say on here now as Endless is not replying.

Mats you now realize what you have got. I can imagine you are well pissed off.
You have spent your hard earned money on a car that you thought would do the business. Now you have sorted it out I do hope so very much you succeed in your goal what ever it is.

Now you know the crack you can tell everyone .

If I got screwed over like this i would be heading to Japan.

That's me done on here now. Must start to concentrate on the 7's 

If i can sort my launch out. If not Wendy is gonna drive it:thumbsup::thumbsup:


Over and out.


Mick


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

Right theres obviously loads of you who think this is a personal discussion that you can join in on, ITS NOT. Infractions have just been given out. 
Next one to add your 6 pence worth and your out of here.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Hodgie take a chill pill.

I am stating facts. Mats is my mate now

As for your 6 points you know what to do with them.

I am utterly disgusted. 

If its a personal discussion then why is it on a public forum??

You need to make your mind up?

Mick


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

m6beg said:


> Hodgie take a chill pill.
> 
> I am stating facts. Mats is my mate now
> 
> ...


Pm`d you.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

hodgie said:


> Pm`d you.


Dont care Hodgie.

You can stick your Infractions as far as they will go dude.

Well thats me out of here for being me.

Pm'd you back.

Don't pm again.


Mick


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## SklyaFett (Oct 18, 2005)

i got 6p lol. Freedom of speech, puplic forum ...................... hope it all ends well:flame::nervous:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Right

upon Ricks request, i have unlocked this thread.

BUT

ONLY Rick and Mattson, or those DIRECTLY involved in thier business can post. I won't let this turn into a kicking competition, and its not an invitation for everyone to stick thier oar in.

you have been warned.

mook


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