# Letter to Dunlop and Nissan - UK version



## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

If enough people send Dunlop and Nissan this letter they will have to respond.


Your Home address


4th August 2010

Dunlop Tyres UK
TyreFort
88-98 Wingfoot Way
Birmingham
B24 9HY

Attn: Steve Coleman - Customer Services Manager 

Dear Mr Coleman

RE: Dunlop Tyres for Nissan GT-R - SP Sport 600 DSST

I am writing to you to complain about the deliberate restrictive supply policies adopted by Dunlop and by Nissan for replacement tyres for the Nissan GT-R. I also wish to bring to your attention the strength of negative feeling spreading through the GT-R community towards both Dunlop and Nissan.

A large number of owners have contacted their regular Dunlop suppliers and have been told that the tyres in question are only available from Nissan. Nissan are in turn abusing their monopoly position. The deliberate collusion between Dunlop and Nissan is anti-competitive and immoral. Restricting supply through a single source in such a way is against European Competition Law. 

I politely request that you immediately withdrawn these supply restrictions and make this product available through your normal supply channels at a market competitive rate comparable to the rest of the same range of tyres. Unless you do, I believe there is sufficient numbers of customers who feel strongly enough to take class action against your company and Nissan.

Yours sincerely





YOUR NAME

CC: Dick Johnson - MD/CEO of Dunlop Tyres UK
Paul Willcox - MD of Nissan Motor (GB) Ltd

Nissan Motor (GB) Ltd , The Rivers Office Park, 
Denham Way, Maple Cross, 
Rickmansworth, 
Hertfordshire, WD3 9YS

What do you think, Chaps??? Fill there post bags? :lamer:


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

Already spoke to Dunlop, they are in contract to Nissan to only supply them the tyre. They cannot control what Nissan sell them for, it's Nissan that is stitching us up.

I also asked why if according to most people on this site Dunlop did this as no one is purchasing these tyres. According to Dunlop Nissan is purchasing lots of stock, so who is buying them for their GTR ?


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Nissan fingers are going to be burnt on this issue. Tyres have a shelf life, so if for some insane reason anyone does buy, check the manufacture date.

Let's wait and see how cheap they get when they are approaching dump date.


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## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Why not just take your concerns to the Monopolies Commission, the European Union, the Office Of Fair Trading, Chuck Norris, or anybody else that might give a flying one.


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## JOEJOETHEJOEY (Sep 20, 2009)

I heard from a mate about this. I didn't realise the scale of the problem. My mate had a puncture but luckily found a garage that had a few tyres left from before Nissan's monopoly. I paid for the tyre cover when I got my car, so not too sure how much hassle it will be. How much are they selling now from Nissan anyhow including fitting?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Great idea........ if you want to really **** the relationship we have with NMGB and Nissan Europe! Why not volunteer to work with the Club as a liaison and I can get you a meeting with these people


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## anilj (Jan 30, 2010)

I have been told that the Bridgestones look better and work better in the wet so will be switching to these in a few thousand miles and have got an excellent rate from Kwik Fit who are holding these for me. Dunlops were simply too pricey and certainly not worth the extra £1500 justification. I work in Marketing and this Dunlop / Nissan practice will effect their Brands but for Nissan this will also greatly hurt their after sales experiance. You would have thought that Nissan after going to great lengths to manufacture a superb car in order to acquire new customers to their Brand's most expensive model, would simply allow this unnecessary practice to cheapen our perspective. I do feel sorry for the HPC's who are also effected by this negative and crazy rule.

But I can tell you one thing, this small issue will become a fantastic selling point for Porsche, Audi, BMW and Merc when someone helps them with thier reply to the Nissan comparison advertising....can you see the new posters.....Nissan at the top of the list for the overall running costs as compared to their German counterparts.....it will happen just watch this space.....take notice Nissan Marketing...take notice....

Peace

AJ


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## s2gtr (Jun 30, 2001)

ChuckUK said:


> Already spoke to Dunlop, they are in contract to Nissan to only supply them the tyre. They cannot control what Nissan sell them for, it's Nissan that is stitching us up.
> 
> I also asked why if according to most people on this site Dunlop did this as no one is purchasing these tyres. According to Dunlop Nissan is purchasing lots of stock, so who is buying them for their GTR ?


That would appear to be in conflict with block exemption rules? 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2010:138:0016:0027:EN:PDF

(22) Article 5(a) of the Motor Vehicle Block Exemption Regulation concerns the restriction of the sale of spare parts for motor vehicles by members of a selective distribution system to independent repairers. This provision is most relevant for a particular category of parts, sometimes referred to as captive parts, which may only be obtained from the motor vehicle manufacturer or from members of its authorised networks. If a supplier and a distributor agree that such parts may not be supplied to independent repairers, this agreement would be likely to foreclose such repairers from the market for repair and maintenance services and fall foul of Article 101 of the Treaty.

Dave


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

If block exemption applies then tell me where else you can buy a GTR OEM boot spoiler other than Nissan ?


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

ChuckUK said:


> Already spoke to Dunlop, they are in contract to Nissan to only supply them the tyre. They cannot control what Nissan sell them for, it's Nissan that is stitching us up.
> 
> I also asked why if according to most people on this site Dunlop did this as no one is purchasing these tyres. According to Dunlop Nissan is purchasing lots of stock, so who is buying them for their GTR ?


I don't completely agree. They are not allowed to restrict their supply in this way. Let Nissan sit in the stock they have ordered and open up supply to the dealers and the price will drop. Yes Nissan are part of the cause and they set their parts price but Dunlop are not allowed to restrict supply to one supplier.


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Fuggles said:


> Great idea........ if you want to really **** the relationship we have with NMGB and Nissan Europe! Why not volunteer to work with the Club as a liaison and I can get you a meeting with these people


I'll do that, no issue. I manage relationships professionally and I was a buyer by trade. I don't have a huge amount of time but if you want me to take this issue on for the club I will donate my time, no issue. I don't need tyres yet but will do in about 4k miles so there's a target for me. I'll send you a PM.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

When you think about it, why would Dunlop try to restrict anything ? they want to sell tyres, the more places they can sell these the better for them. As the tyres were originally sold anywhere at a sensible price I'd say Nissan went back to Dunlop and reiterated the fact these tyres were developed and paid for by them and maybe have complete rights over them.

What's the deal with Dunlops in France for example ? same as here ?


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

ChuckUK said:


> When you think about it, why would Dunlop try to restrict anything ? they want to sell tyres, the more places they can sell these the better for them. As the tyres were originally sold anywhere at a sensible price I'd say Nissan went back to Dunlop and reiterated the fact these tyres were developed and paid for by them and maybe have complete rights over them.
> 
> What's the deal with Dunlops in France for example ? same as here ?


This is why a legal shot across the bows might be in order. I am not sure if they have considered the issues relating to restrictive trade practices. They will argue that the tyre are available from any HPC, however the price is set by Nissan as a spare part.

I doubt if Nissan paid for the development of a custom tyre. If they did they would be called Dunlop Nissan would they not? Are we sure they paid for the development???

At best this is a PR disaster for both Nissan and Dunlop. I'd like to see more reviews of the alternatives and also for goodness sake, don't buy Dunlops from Nissan. Let them sit on the stock and the price will drop.


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

Fuggles said:


> Great idea........ if you want to really **** the relationship we have with NMGB and Nissan Europe! Why not volunteer to work with the Club as a liaison and I can get you a meeting with these people


I'm sure thats not the intended point, you must be able to see that a lot of owners want to see something done about this and I'm not quite sure of the club's position on this topic? 

Who is the current liason club with Nissan UK? Are they familiar with the issues GTR owners have with Nissan? 

The American's managed a class action against Nissan NA, the Germans got a great result regarding some of the warranty issues if I remember correctly - isnt' it about time the UK got a wiggle on ?


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

s2gtr said:


> That would appear to be in conflict with block exemption rules?
> 
> http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2010:138:0016:0027:EN:PDF
> 
> ...


Quite a lot of what Nissan does regarding the GTR is against EU Block Exemption rules - I wrote this thread a while ago on the topic:
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/126187-servicing-non-nissan-parts.html

Since then, Nissan UK have confirmed verbally to me that they will not disclose the spec of their transmission fluid - this is directly against EU regs that state Nissan should clearly label everything so, as an end user, I can decide if to use Nissan product or one of same/better quality. I asked several months ago for this decision to be provided in writiing to me but... of course they won't put that in writing...


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Yawn, yawn, just go and buy the Bridgestones !!

Guys, I am sorry but we all now know that Nissan are royaly ****ing us and hence one of the main reasons I went and bought an imported car. I was on the “Nissan” waiting list for god knows how long, (over a year)

I couldn’t get any tech spec, help with the delivery of the car and I think I knew more about the car than most HPC did/do !! 

As for them (Nissan) not letting you have info on the fluids to use or used, just give Iain Litchfield a call, he has nothing to hide


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

Steve said:


> As for them (Nissan) not letting you have info on the fluids to use or used, just give Iain Litchfield a call, he has nothing to hide


 Iain has been brilliant on the servicing of my car and I'll certainly keep taking his advice. However in parallel I will continue to keep on at Nissan UK as I have since before Christmas on this issue - as I believe them to be in the wrong :thumbsup:


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

I had a lot of respect for Nissan once and at present I have 2 of their cars I have owned the R33 GTR for 12 years 

I have had nearly every sports car model from the 240Z (Datsun) to the R35 and I have witnessed the customer service becoming very very brown and smelly along the way!!

Good luck Bazza - reminds of a story I was told when I was a child about David & Goliath!!! Let me know how you get on.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

Steve said:


> Yawn, yawn, just go and buy the Bridgestones !!


I will be once I find someone with stock :thumbsup:


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Great idea........ if you want to really **** the relationship we have with NMGB and Nissan Europe! Why not volunteer to work with the Club as a liaison and I can get you a meeting with these people


Can you please explain how the current relationship benefits us as members because I see the following issues being quite serious and no intervention by the club on behalf of members, we had an R35 liason officer who subsequently sold his car and no longer performs the role, there appears to be nobody replacing him ?

Issues that appear unresolved are;

Cost and supply of Dunlop Tyres against EU law

Specification of transmission oil being withheld against EU law

Ridiculously long lead times on replacement parts such as pedestrian safety system components not to mention unjustifiable parts prices for these items

Cracking / premature wear of brake discs

Inability to match Ultimate Metallic Silver paintwork by HPC bodyshops

Numerous vehicles being damaged by the concierge service

Poor workmanship from some HPC workshops

There may be more but I don't think any of the above are insignificant so I find your post rather insulting to say the least when all people on this thread are trying to do, is get some answers and a resolution from a manufacturer who appears hell bent on destroying the already fragile relationship between itself and it's customers.


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

imattersuk said:


> Can you please explain how the current relationship benefits us as members because I see the following issues being quite serious and no intervention by the club on behalf of members, we had an R35 liason officer who subsequently sold his car and no longer performs the role, there appears to be nobody replacing him ?
> 
> Issues that appear unresolved are;
> 
> ...


+1 
but as i'm off the Scotsmac i'm mellow.

Peace and love baby and good Karma will prevail.

After all were all after the same thing

A GOOD B-tt F-ck:chairshot


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

imattersuk said:


> Can you please explain how the current relationship benefits us as members


NMGB are paying part of your first year membership fee. They actively support the club and forum. Nissan Europe provides us VIP access at events such as the Geneva Motor Show. NMGB provides us VIP and discounted access to various events as well as special invites. We are the only official online distributor for Nissan branded and GT-R barnded merchandise and receive 100% share of the profits. Nissan provide us with up to date and 'inside' information on changes and developments. In Japan we have direct access to Nissan's head of marketing and regularly meet Nissan when touring there. We have direct access to Renault-Nissan HQ in paris at the very highest level. Nissan Japan also provide us VIP and free tickets to events. As a direct result of our official status Virgin Atlantic provide us staff rates on flights to Japan (they don't do this for anyone else). We have the rights to use both the Nissan and GT-R brands on merchandise and do so perfectly legally (whereas others do not)


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Godders said:


> I'll do that, no issue. I manage relationships professionally and I was a buyer by trade. I don't have a huge amount of time but if you want me to take this issue on for the club I will donate my time, no issue. I don't need tyres yet but will do in about 4k miles so there's a target for me. I'll send you a PM.


Thank you. As liaison it would be about taking on various issues not just this one. I hevae excellent relationships across Nissan and your help in imporving that would be much appreciated. I will get back to you in due course


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> NMGB are paying part of your first year membership fee. They actively support the club and forum. Nissan Europe provides us VIP access at events such as the Geneva Motor Show. NMGB provides us VIP and discounted access to various events as well as special invites. We are the only official online distributor for Nissan branded and GT-R barnded merchandise and receive 100% share of the profits. Nissan provide us with up to date and 'inside' information on changes and developments. In Japan we have direct access to Nissan's head of marketing and regularly meet Nissan when touring there. We have direct access to Renault-Nissan HQ in paris at the very highest level. Nissan Japan also provide us VIP and free tickets to events. As a direct result of our official status Virgin Atlantic provide us staff rates on flights to Japan (they don't do this for anyone else). We have the rights to use both the Nissan and GT-R brands on merchandise and do so perfectly legally (whereas others do not)


Great stuff but how does that help owners who have issues with the items I asked about in my post ? Also i'm in no way saying the discount on first year membership is not worth having, but let's be honest here what would an owner rather have, a £30 membership discount or pay £2000+ for a set of £1200 tyres ? please don't insult my intelligence.

All of the things you mention have very little and in most cases zero benefit to 95% of owners in the real world. All we want is to be treated fairly after parting with a considerable amount of money and I really don't think it's asking too much for the club to be more proactive in assisting members with issues. I don't give a flying fig if I can buy a jacket that's officially approved and the club makes 100% share of the profits, i'd rather pay £100+ a year membership and feel I had some backing over serious issues.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

So you think that access to these people doesn't benefit us? We may not win every argument but do your research and you will see some significant changes as a result of working WITH Nissan not beating them up because another company (not Nissan) is happy to make the most of a free market economy. For example the oil temperature requirements, pre and post track day inspections, service requirements and many other 'minor' changes that have been affected by the GTROC.

As regards your comment "I really don't think it's asking too much for the club to be more proactive". Every officer of the club and every forum officer gives up their time completely free. We do not get our expenses paid and spend hours doing this because we believe in what we are doing and we are trying to provide the very best service we can and the best offerings we can make in terms of benefits. We are always looking for more people to help and will happily consider every offer. The more people we have contributing the more we are able to do.

I am gladdened to see one person already PM me with an offer of help, we could do with more. I appreciate not everyone can devote time to it and not everyone is interested but if everyone did a little it would add up to a lot!

Thank you


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

imattersuk said:


> Great stuff but how does that help owners who have issues with the items I asked about in my post ? Also i'm in no way saying the discount on first year membership is not worth having, but let's be honest here what would an owner rather have, a £30 membership discount or pay £2000+ for a set of £1200 tyres ? please don't insult my intelligence.
> 
> All of the things you mention have very little and in most cases zero benefit to 95% of owners in the real world. All we want is to be treated fairly after parting with a considerable amount of money and I really don't think it's asking too much for the club to be more proactive in assisting members with issues. I don't give a flying fig if I can buy a jacket that's officially approved and the club makes 100% share of the profits, i'd rather pay £100+ a year membership and feel I had some backing over serious issues.



John and others, unfortunately I have to agree with the above. Yes, I am fully aware of the work you do with Nissan and the "benefits" for our club. But what about the issues on the ground why are WE the people who keep Nissan where they are and in business and profit still being shafted ???

Why don't you get Simon and / or others to front a meeting with the GTROC. I am aware that they do look at the forum but how much do we actually get back from them in direct communication AND EVEN BETTER ACTION?


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

I fully understand the frustration you must be feeling with the many hurdles invloved in R35 ownership, in a perfect world we could wave a magic wand and all our problems would dissapear. However I'm sure the club do all they can in raising the issues with Nissan but as previously mentioned, Nissan make the rules, the club can only request they are bent slightly..and I'm sure Nissan will only do it if it is in their interest. Shaving several hundred quid off a set of tyres, methinks, is not in Nissans interest..hence....


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Cleethorpes

I class myself as one of the lucky ones as I do not have to deal directly with Mr Nissan and their total arrogance and incompetence. However, I used to be a "fully paid up member" of Nissan and as stated previously have had nearly every evolution of Nissan sports car from the days of the 240Z. But because of the shafting by Nissan and their “service” I imported my R33 GTR, R34 GTT, NISMO "S" Tune 350Z and of course my GTR. I still feel the anxiety from this and other forums about the GTR and I also am fully aware of the frustrations of owning Nissan’s “supercar” 

Can it get better ?? 

I fear not as with over 250 GTR’s on here alone and Nissan do not seem to give a dam about the man in the street, sorry, but as I said before that is the feeling from the ground and yes, I did the trip to Tokyo with the GTROC to see the launch of the GTR in 2007 at the Tokyo motor show as that was how much passion I have with the new car. I also met with some very high level people at Nissan. So where do WE go from here ? Anyone ??


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## spinner (Oct 2, 2002)

Wow. Constantly amazed at the price and issues associated with running an R35, which I would dearly love to do.

It probably goes to show that being able to buy a super car for 55-60k is economically challenging for Nissan and hence recovering more money on lifetime ownership costs is the 'profit' gap.

To put that into perspective my R8 just cost £280 for it's first service, variable and after 2 years since new and the big service is around £450. Tyres and other consumables are much cheaper. Granted I got a second hand R8 instead of a new R35 but so far it's costing considerably less to run and in depreciation. Clearly the R35 is a superior car but it does come at a price, perhaps not initially but down the line in the course of ownership.

I guess you picks your bed but have never heard of silent night stitching anyone up.....


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## bobd (Mar 25, 2008)

Steve said:


> Cleethorpes
> 
> I class myself as one of the lucky ones as I do not have to deal directly with Mr Nissan and their total arrogance and incompetence. However, I used to be a "fully paid up member" of Nissan and as stated previously have had nearly every evolution of Nissan sports car from the days of the 240Z. But because of the shafting by Nissan and their “service” I imported my R33 GTR, R34 GTT, NISMO "S" Tune 350Z and of course my GTR. I still feel the anxiety from this and other forums about the GTR and I also am fully aware of the frustrations of owning Nissan’s “supercar”
> 
> ...


I tend to agree. I too have had Datsuns , Nissans for a long , long time. I have had issues with the GTR, which were not solved to a satisfactory conclusion by Nissan, but have had a lot of assistance from Hursts HPC in Belfast. I waited a long time for my car and feel that the driving experience while amazing is let down by problems like the tyres. I had a lot better service and confidence from TVR whilst the factory was still going and thats saying something!
John, no ones upset with the owners club, or indeed all your efforts. The point of the matter is that when anyone spends money you expect good service, no matter what the product. This tyre issue will affect used values and will prevent people from coming back to Nissan and ultimately affect the membership levels of the club.
At 5700 miles I was told I needed new brake discs with no track days done at all. The Ultimate Silver paint is an elm street on the front of the car. Mines been done once at my expense. It will need doing again soon. My tyres will need changing soon also. I bought an Audi once and received crap service from the dealer. I will not buy another car ever again from that dealer. I bought a BMW once from a dealer and for issues and problems sat on the directors door until I got compensation. The point is that a bad experience stays with you and will stay with Nissan to haunt them if issues are not addressed. The way I feel currently is that this will be my last ever Nissan - not good. I was going to buy a Quashqai for the wife, but due to my experience that has now changed to a used Lexus another loss for Nissan.
Tyres are consumables, and the price being charged is a piss take. Its not as if we are changing them every 15000 miles.
I agree that the club has made a lot of effort and brought about changes - but some of these should not have required your time or effort. I cant recall Nissan sending out info to owners on oil temperature changes or track day inspections or anything else for that matter oh I tell a lie they did 'your RAC assistance has expired'
There is no concierge service here in Northern Ireland and there is no 370z at the dealers to lend anyone. A lot of people here have issues with Nissan and the GTR. Spoke to another one at the dealers last week complaining about no concierge.


What a car! What a public relations disaster! What a missed opportunity!

Sorry for the rant everyone, but piss poor quality of equipment and service really gets my back up.


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## THEINZANTIGER (Jul 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> NMGB are paying part of your first year membership fee. They actively support the club and forum. Nissan Europe provides us VIP access at events such as the Geneva Motor Show. NMGB provides us VIP and discounted access to various events as well as special invites. We are the only official online distributor for Nissan branded and GT-R barnded merchandise and receive 100% share of the profits. Nissan provide us with up to date and 'inside' information on changes and developments. In Japan we have direct access to Nissan's head of marketing and regularly meet Nissan when touring there. We have direct access to Renault-Nissan HQ in paris at the very highest level. Nissan Japan also provide us VIP and free tickets to events. As a direct result of our official status Virgin Atlantic provide us staff rates on flights to Japan (they don't do this for anyone else). We have the rights to use both the Nissan and GT-R brands on merchandise and do so perfectly legally (whereas others do not)


How do you book one of these staff rates flights with Virgin Atlantic?
Also are all of these other benefits available to a regular member of the GTROC or are they just for the privileged few? Where and how can you find out for what event there are free or VIP tickets available?
Quite willing to offer my help to the GTROC, just let me know how! Regards


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Simple, you come on one of the GTROC organised trips to Japan. They are available to everyone who goes on such a trip


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

Fuggles said:


> Simple, you come on one of the GTROC organised trips to Japan. They are available to everyone who goes on such a trip


Is that in economy though?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

AndyE14 said:


> Is that in economy though?


in the hold


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Bucket n Spade class


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Fuggles said:


> Thank you. As liaison it would be about taking on various issues not just this one. I hevae excellent relationships across Nissan and your help in imporving that would be much appreciated. I will get back to you in due course


No problem, I'll do what I can.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Nissan are quite clear on what tyre you should buy 










... their latest clothing line

Current tyre situ not satisfactory imho, but I'd like clarification from Nissan and Dunlop on what the supply model is, before passing judgment


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Yokohama is the cty where Nissan originated from and also where it's GTR engine assembly plant is. It's nothing to do with tyres. Yokohama Tire and Rubber Company bid for the rights to supply the cars tyres from production and spent a serious amount of time and effort investing in developing the tyres, testing etc but never won the contract. Many Japanese companies are named after the town where they originiated not Just Yokohama, such as Komatsu, Fuji, Liyama, Fujitsu, etc.


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

The reasons to sell this car are becoming more and more weighty. Shame really. The Porsche forum must *iss themselves laughing at the crap we have to put up with. Maybe we need some poor soul with no tread left on their tyres to go and run someone over. That'll be great press for Nissan seeing as they appear to suggest speed is a reason to go and buy a Nissan rather than a German equivalent!


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

waltong said:


> The reasons to sell this car are becoming more and more weighty. Shame really. The Porsche forum must *iss themselves laughing at the crap we have to put up with. Maybe we need some poor soul with no tread left on their tyres to go and run someone over. That'll be great press for Nissan seeing as they appear to suggest speed is a reason to go and buy a Nissan rather than a German equivalent!


Every major sports car company has at some time doen what they can to empty my bank account. I was hoping for the same agressive prices as the price of the car but it wasn't to be.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Good thread just wanted to lend my thoughts and hopefully (don't take offence anyone) a middle ground. GTROC obviously does a great job and the guys who give up their time and administer this site obviously work very hard. That being said my focus is not on freebees, flights, trips to Japan or merchandising - I acknowledge you have to make money somehow so this as revenue stream is important. I was interested by how pushing Nissan with legal action foot tyre and other block exemption issues might damage a relationship? Commercially they might withdraw rights as a worst case but then how is that relevant if they are taking away fundamental rights to consumers?

I have already had a chat to my legal team and they would be interested (they are lawyers so who can blame them) at looking at it and have advised that it appears at first glance fairly open and shut especially if Dunlop have confirmed they have an exclusive contract which is contrary to euro law and anyone could figure that out. They have also said that if we were to use oil which was superior, or equal to the quality of the 'Nissan' version (and they would have to prove it wasn't) any warranty claim would be fine and Nissan simply would not have a leg to stand on. Same as using Mobil one or Castrol oil it is consumer choice.

I would support and letter to Nissan and happy to send it via my lawyers if necessary (and copy in the shocking Micra sales people at Mill Hill). Ironic really since I pick my car up on Sept 1st and already planning to get rid after a few months and get something which is less hassle. All other machines may be 'slower', 'less fun' etc etc as said by most on this site but really for the odd fraction of a second that gives me an M3, 911, Atom with 5 series for everyday would give 99% of the joy for so much less stress.

Good to vent and what should have been one of the happiest days of my life picking up Natalie's Dirty Sister (original 350 Nissan was called Natalie) is just going to be riddled with doubts about when something will explode, gearbox die or the brake disks at 5k. Very disappointing and certainly be my last Nissan even before I get it (don't even ask how bad the 350z regular dealer service was). Very sad indictment of an opportunity a company has royally screwed up. Fuggles if you wish me to deal with any liaison I would be delighted to hear their side of the story and do anything I can to help all on this forum and GTR owners across UK get decent service. PM me if I can help at all.

Roger.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

ROG350Z said:


> Good thread just wanted to lend my thoughts and hopefully (don't take offence anyone) a middle ground. GTROC obviously does a great job and the guys who give up their time and administer this site obviously work very hard. That being said my focus is not on freebees, flights, trips to Japan or merchandising - I acknowledge you have to make money somehow


we don't make any money from these and rarely even cover all the costs for some events. All money used to fund the GTROC is raised through subscriptions, donations and profits from the sale of (some) shop items.




ROG350Z said:


> if you wish me to deal with any liaison I would be delighted to hear their side of the story and do anything I can to help all on this forum and GTR owners across UK get decent service.


Thank yout for this offer, I will be in touch very soon


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Chaps, I still think you'll find the restrictive and anticompetitive trade is that of Dunlop and not Nissan. Nissan sell through multiple HPC’s. It’s Dunlop who is at fault in the case of the tyres as they are only selling through one source (Nissan) and restricting supply.

Of course there is the wider issue of the “cost of ownership“ of the R35. Spare part prices and lead times are a major issue. Nissan have chosen the margin they add and there is no competition to that price other than non-OEM.

As we don’t have a relationship or a vested interest in Dunlop, I see no issue with a shot across their bows with or without lawyers.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

I suspect this is now on the Dunlop legal team radar.


I've 7 contact attempts with audit trail.

Smelling blood......


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Chaps,

I have been doing some digging and I've found a trader via our company branch in India who says they can supply these genuine Dunlop originals. I am still confirming prices but they are less that £1200 UK delivered for 4. We have to add £210 VAT and there might be import duty.

IF (and I still have some work to do here!!) I can get them; if you'd be interested please PM me so I can gauge the numbers. I think I would need 20 sets to make it worthwhile. I have asked my colleagues in India to buy a sample set to check them out. I might have just wasted quite a lot of money buy we’ll have to see.

It's a long shot, but it might just work! This is not a group buy (yet), just need to know numbers.


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Godders

Great work for us forum members - thanks.

A small heads-up: the mods on here like all GB's cleared through them before being "offered".

Having said that, put my name down if this is the real mCcoy.

D


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

sumo69 said:


> Godders
> 
> Great work for us forum members - thanks.
> 
> ...


Yes, thanks, this is NOT an offer (just yet) and of course I will go through due process. I can't get a final price unless I know numbers and I'm not going to guess and buy stock. I'm not in the tyre business! 

If it is for real I'll buy a set even though I've still got 3k miles to go on mine. Otherwise I'll be on the Bridgstones I think... around winter time which might not be such a bad thing.


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## Snapper (Oct 1, 2009)

I found a useful article about distribution agreements. I did not have any part in writing this article. I came across it while browsing for this topic.

Distribution Agreements and UK / EC Competition Law


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## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

If a group buy is an option just give me a heads up but I can't see there being any problem with it

Mook


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## Jaw_F430 (Apr 14, 2009)

Just fitted tyres to mine but I would be interested in a set of OEM Dunlops:clap::clap:


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

ROG350Z said:


> Good thread just wanted to lend my thoughts and hopefully (don't take offence anyone) a middle ground. GTROC obviously does a great job and the guys who give up their time and administer this site obviously work very hard. That being said my focus is not on freebees, flights, trips to Japan or merchandising - I acknowledge you have to make money somehow so this as revenue stream is important. I was interested by how pushing Nissan with legal action foot tyre and other block exemption issues might damage a relationship? Commercially they might withdraw rights as a worst case but then how is that relevant if they are taking away fundamental rights to consumers?
> 
> I have already had a chat to my legal team and they would be interested (they are lawyers so who can blame them) at looking at it and have advised that it appears at first glance fairly open and shut especially if Dunlop have confirmed they have an exclusive contract which is contrary to euro law and anyone could figure that out. They have also said that if we were to use oil which was superior, or equal to the quality of the 'Nissan' version (and they would have to prove it wasn't) any warranty claim would be fine and Nissan simply would not have a leg to stand on. Same as using Mobil one or Castrol oil it is consumer choice.
> 
> ...


+1

At last somone who see's the real issue. It's not Nissan, or GTROC funding or Dunlop or group buy in Outer mongolia.

It's whats right under law. Please Please Please dont let folks side track you Please Please Please follow through with legal support. Yes i want OEM tyres but sod it I'd rather have whats RIGHT:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

+1. Just fitted bridgies but would love dunlops for next time if price is sensible. 
Godders - any chance you can see if your contacts can source Dunlop all season? Might be popular with winter round the corner?
Thanks for you efforts
Mick


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## WooHoo (Dec 21, 2009)

+1 for Dunlops too, and echo what mickv said about the all-seasons!

Andrew


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## sin (Dec 3, 2007)

Godders, thanks for the work put into this so far.

I echo whats been said above about what's right (legally/morally) and what's wrong. If this is something you can do, put my name down for a set even though it goes well against the grain giving Dunlop any of my money whatsoever, but needs must. 

Never been one to cut of my nose to spite my face. Worst case scenario is, if i dont need them i'm sure in time i can find someone to take them off me.


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

By way of an update; I have samples (one full set) being airfreighted as my friends in Asia don’t really know what they are looking for.

The freights costs for a larger batch are $950 for a 20ft container which can take up to 400pcs. As a rough guess I think if we were to do a group buy it would be around 20 sets of 4 so 40pcs of each tyre. Whilst this is only $11.88 per tyre there will be customs charges and delivery charges in the UK. I will find out which port they will clear.

By sea freight the lead time is 38 days! I guess this might put a few off. I’ll let you know the outcome off the samples but in the meantime let me know if you might be interested. Still lots of work to do but worth a punt perhaps.


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

Great stuff Godders. :thumbsup:

Let's negotiate an even better price, fill the container, and take over supply of Dunlop tyres to Europe. 


Look forewared to hearing that they are actually a Dunlop tyre and not a Chinese copy...


Rich


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Rich-GT said:


> Look forewared to hearing that they are actually a Dunlop tyre and not a Chinese copy...


What makes you think that they're not made there anyway?


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

Hi. 

As a matter of interest is this a UK problem in isolation or are our EU friends and guys across the pond being shafted as well??


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> What makes you think that they're not made there anyway?


I have considered this already. I have asked to see The Dunlop Certificate of Conformity and confirmed the country of origin. I should be able to check this with Dunlop, hopefully without stopping the supply by tipping them off!

My current ones are "Made in Japan", but Dunlop have plants all over.

When I get the samples I will do rubber analysis. Anybody got a spectrum analyser in their garage? ;-)


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## rblvjenkins (Mar 8, 2008)

Godders

+1 for set of Dunlops - thanks


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Godders said:


> I have considered this already. I have asked to see The Dunlop Certificate of Conformity and confirmed the country of origin. I should be able to check this with Dunlop, hopefully without stopping the supply by tipping them off!
> 
> My current ones are "Made in Japan", but Dunlop have plants all over.
> 
> When I get the samples I will do rubber analysis. Anybody got a spectrum analyser in their garage? ;-)


I wasn't suggesting it in a killjoy way, just the fact that there is so much stuff made in China anyway. Provided they are produced at a Dunlop facility and not at Xiang Chin Wah Tyre Mfr then it shouldn't be a problem. This is beginning to sound like pretty good idea and I will provisionally say that I'm interested in getting on board with it.


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Don’t worry I took it the right way. This was my very first thought being a cynic at heart. It would just be my luck to find some dodgy knock off copy made from remoulds and my name associated with them. 

So completely agree we need to play safe, it will take a little time, get the samples in.


I think we should do this;

Get a copy of the C of C
Get the samples in
Inspect and test them compared with originals (still on my car)
Check them on a car, track and road test (Castle Combe is just down the road)
Arrange a Group Buy


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Right just sent a large sum of money to my finance company as deposit so in it up to my neck now. 

As it happens I do have a couple of Spectrophotometers lying around (and no I am not kidding). The old man's PHd is Analytical Chemistry and we have a lab (insert mad professor chuckles here and yes he does have a beard!). If not I know his colleague who has a tensile and packaging materials testing company who would be able to help! That might incur charges though. Happy to help when they arrive.


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## jcg (Oct 7, 2009)

Please see letter/response I received from OFT regarding this. It looked like they had not given the specific situation much thought (but I may be wrong). Their position seems to be there are a lot of cars and tyres out there that one can choose. If one decides to buy a specific car with a tyre that is only available with difficulty that is your choice. I have not reverted to the OFT to ask for any clarification.

My e-mail to OFT

_I seem unable to buy the unique runflat tyres (Tyre Size Front, 255/40 R20. Tyre Size Rear, 285/35 R20) made by Dunlop for my car (the tyres were fitted OEM), a Nissan GTR which I bought last year, other than through nominated Nissan dealers. Other general tyre dealers, I have been told, have not been allowed supply to avoid them undercutting the prices that Nissan dealers charge for the tyre. Is this type of restrictive distribution practice legal?_

Their response

Dear Mr [.]

Thank you for your e-mail of 20 July concerning the supply of Dunlop tyres.

The main law covering competition in the UK is the Competition Act 1998 (the Act). In brief, the Act contains two main prohibitions. The Chapter I prohibition prohibits price fixing or other anti-competitive agreements which prevent, restrict or distort competition. The Chapter II prohibition prohibits conduct by companies which amounts to an abuse of a dominant position.

The type of behaviour you describe in your e-mail, where a manufacturer supplies only one retailer in a particular area, is known as exclusive distribution. It is a common business practice and is not prohibited under the Act unless it leads to a significant reduction in competition. This is because the arrangement occurs between companies operating at different levels of the supply chain (such as a manufacturer and a retailer). It is only if market power is present at one or both stages in the supply chain that the behaviour may be caught under the Chapter II prohibition. 


As it appears that there are a number of car manufacturers and tyre producers, no one firm appears to be dominant in the market. It therefore seems that these exclusive distribution arrangements do not appear to significantly affect competition.

In view of the above, the OFT will not be taking any further action in relation to your complaint at this time. However we appreciate the time you have taking in bringing this matter to our attention.

Yours sincerely,


Matt Lacovara
Enquiries and Reporting Centre
Office of Fair Trading


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Usual Obudsman OFT b*llsh*t my friend !!!

Not worth the paper they write on


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

ROG350Z said:


> Right just sent a large sum of money to my finance company as deposit so in it up to my neck now.
> 
> As it happens I do have a couple of Spectrophotometers lying around (and no I am not kidding). The old man's PHd is Analytical Chemistry and we have a lab (insert mad professor chuckles here and yes he does have a beard!). If not I know his colleague who has a tensile and packaging materials testing company who would be able to help! That might incur charges though. Happy to help when they arrive.


Great! if we could get small samples tested and compared that would be perfect. Any idea of the cost?


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## bobd (Mar 25, 2008)

jcg said:


> Please see letter/response I received from OFT regarding this. It looked like they had not given the specific situation much thought (but I may be wrong). Their position seems to be there are a lot of cars and tyres out there that one can choose. If one decides to buy a specific car with a tyre that is only available with difficulty that is your choice. I have not reverted to the OFT to ask for any clarification.
> 
> My e-mail to OFT
> 
> ...


Same reply as I recieved, but truly believe they do not understand the scenario.
1. there is only one car manufacturer - Nissan
2. There is a requirement for competition as you cannot buy the tyres anywhere else.
3. They do not supply one retailer in a particular area! They supply only one retailer throughout the whole of the UK.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

bobd said:


> Same reply as I recieved, but truly believe they do not understand the scenario.
> 1. there is only one car manufacturer - Nissan
> 2. There is a requirement for competition as you cannot buy the tyres anywhere else.
> 3. They do not supply one retailer in a particular area! They supply only one retailer throughout the whole of the UK.


clearly there is a choice in the market; Bridgestones for RFT and Yokos, Pirellis etc

I was able to buy these at the weekend as a GTR owner;


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

bobd said:


> Same reply as I recieved, but truly believe they do not understand the scenario.
> 1. there is only one car manufacturer - Nissan
> 2. There is a requirement for competition as you cannot buy the tyres anywhere else.
> 3. They do not supply one retailer in a particular area! They supply only one retailer throughout the whole of the UK.


Whilst I am conscious of people's comments here it makes sense to understand the regulations that apply. The competition Commission to not look at specific products within a market place nor do they look up/down the integration chain. Recent examples are the merger of the four largest UK tour operators into two. Initially there were a lot of complaints on the market being carved up by two suppliers but the CC argued that holidays are discretionary annual spend and therefore the market was actually significantly bigger. As an example they cited furniture and cars as parts of the same competitive market place. Similarly the CC will argue you bought the car which comes with these sized wheels and with certain tyres made to fit these wheels, that will be part of the buyer decision process or, if not then the 'buyer beware' rules apply. The CC will argue also that you could always put different wheels on the car. If this makes the handling characteristics different it does not in fact fundamentally alter the products requirements - which is a motor vehicle, not an entertainment product. As regards the supply of one retailer you may have a point here but as the others don't apply they could argue that there is free market competition in terms of buying a car with known wheels and tyre sizes/fitments.

Sorry if you don't like my reply but hopefully it will help explain why they have perhaps given the answer they do. And if it looks like I've been around this one before elsewhere - you betchya!


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## sin (Dec 3, 2007)

Zed Ed said:


> I was able to buy these at the weekend as a GTR owner;


What are they like in the wet mate?


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## bobd (Mar 25, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> clearly there is a choice in the market; Bridgestones for RFT and Yokos, Pirellis etc
> 
> I was able to buy these at the weekend as a GTR owner;


How many games of tennis can you get out of these compared to the others and are they only available from one source or can you buy these from any sports shop?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Zed Ed said:


>


They look great, what sort of footprint do they have? :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Whilst I am conscious of people's comments here it makes sense to understand the regulations that apply. The competition Commission to not look at specific products within a market place nor do they look up/down the integration chain. Recent examples are the merger of the four largest UK tour operators into two. Initially there were a lot of complaints on the market being carved up by two suppliers but the CC argued that holidays are discretionary annual spend and therefore the market was actually significantly bigger. As an example they cited furniture and cars as parts of the same competitive market place. Similarly the CC will argue you bought the car which comes with these sized wheels and with certain tyres made to fit these wheels, that will be part of the buyer decision process or, if not then the 'buyer beware' rules apply. The CC will argue also that you could always put different wheels on the car. If this makes the handling characteristics different it does not in fact fundamentally alter the products requirements - which is a motor vehicle, not an entertainment product. As regards the supply of one retailer you may have a point here but as the others don't apply they could argue that there is free market competition in terms of buying a car with known wheels and tyre sizes/fitments.
> 
> Sorry if you don't like my reply but hopefully it will help explain why they have perhaps given the answer they do. And if it looks like I've been around this one before elsewhere - you betchya!


John. 

The problem is there isn't an alternative option. Spoke to Kwik Fit today and they tell me they have no Bridgestone Run Flats for the GTR in th UK. Camskill have rears but no fronts. Nissan are holding a gun to our heads and it's not a nice feeling. 

GTROC have a "close" relationship with Nissan and I believe there should be some communication to either make the tyre available at a more realistic price via the HPC's or make the tyre available to traders that will work at fair profit margins. Let's be honest, when did an HPC ever fit a tyre! It's farmed out to be fitted by the very people that can't source them. 

If I can't find a tyre for my car when I need it....I'll sell the car. Maybe that's what Nissan want. I'd hoped I'd found a reason to leave the German franchises but Nissan are just going to send me straight back at this rate. It's a bloody good car but I don't need the hassle.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I cannot see how it's Nissan that are in the wrong. They never restricted access to any tyre manufacturer, it's the rubber companies that are charging the prices and deciding what product to offer and how much to supply. As far as the NHPCs are concerned only one is a Nissan franchise the others are all independent companies. Under European regulations you can take your car to any dealer to have any work done as long as they have the correct tools, so in that regard any tyre supplier/fitter can do this not the NHPCs and not Nissan. Whilst I accept the issues this has caused I'm not convinced it's Nissan that should be the target but instead the rubber companies. As regards communicating with Nissan of course that has been going on since the very beginning, including my weekends


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## Jaw_F430 (Apr 14, 2009)

Fuggles said:


> I cannot see how it's Nissan that are in the wrong. They never restricted access to any tyre manufacturer, it's the rubber companies that are charging the prices and deciding what product to offer and how much to supply.



Nissan (HPC) are setting the prices though. I went to my local dealer and they said they had Dunlops and BS in stock. I asked how much for a set of both and the Dunlops were ~£2250 and the BS were ~£1850.

Not sure how much the Dunlops were when you could get them but I know the BS are between £970-£1200 a set fitted depending on were you go. 

When I was buying the car from the dealer the owner told me they always look at what Kwik Fit etc are selling the tyres for and are normally similar in price. Now I have the car it is a different story.

To me it would make more sense to lower the price and sell more. The profit will prob end up the same due to the volume of tyres they will move rather than only sell a few sets. I don't know of anyone who has bought a set from Nissan.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

I agree, in a free market, lower prices means higher volume. 

However, when you've a cartel creating a monopoly, you can charge what you like. :lamer:

When I was buying, I did ask about likely running costs with my HPC, they were told that it'd be more than a 350Z but less than a 997 911 Turbo. 

As things stand, it's about 2x911 Turbo costs. Ouch !!! :runaway:

Still, amazing car. But been fibbed to too. Bet the marketing guys are laughing all the way to the bank. 

C'est la vie. It was on the cards from day one. If the situation was reversed, chances are we'd take Nissan for every penny! As it is, it's us. Que sera sera :smokin:

I suppose the alternative is create competition and to buy Toyo & Pirelli and let the OEM tyres wither on the vine? 

Of course the group buy of sunny dunnys sounds too good to be true Nonetheless, nothing ventured, nothing gained. So count me in please! (if Godders gets it on, like the song!):thumbsup:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

If the tyre is specific to the 35, it stands to reason they have committed to buying a certain volume from Dunlop at a fixed price. They probably subsidize this price to keep the new car price down, but sell at a more profitable price as a replacementn part

It's no different really to am lot of other "closed "markets

It does stink though

Mook


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Besides, David's testing all the options for us on his purple people-eating tyre-munching 'Zilla!

(Not seen the lateral g data yet... lol!)

So far I can contribute (repeatable data, like twice):

Dunnies =1.3g sustained (indicated), 1.5g peak instantaneous sliding (indicated)
Bridgies = 1.2g sustained (indicated),1.35g peak instantaneous sliding (indicated)
Toyos = ????
Pirellis = ????
+???

I'm gonna follow in Mr Yu's footsies and go for Toyo's next... or was that Yokos?

I'd like to say I got these figures on a handling day with Colin & Jo @ CAT on their groovy steering pad (Colin did let me play with all the on/offables for ESP switches and we certainly dis scrub up them dunnies) but no, t'was me local roundabout, innit... outside me local maccy D's!

Wikkid. Keep it real in da hood! Booyakasha, aii!


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I cannot see how it's Nissan that are in the wrong. They never restricted access to any tyre manufacturer, it's the rubber companies that are charging the prices and deciding what product to offer and how much to supply. As far as the NHPCs are concerned only one is a Nissan franchise the others are all independent companies. Under European regulations you can take your car to any dealer to have any work done as long as they have the correct tools, so in that regard any tyre supplier/fitter can do this not the NHPCs and not Nissan. Whilst I accept the issues this has caused I'm not convinced it's Nissan that should be the target but instead the rubber companies. As regards communicating with Nissan of course that has been going on since the very beginning, including my weekends


John. I'm not questioning your personal efforts here. 
Nissan have undoubtably done a deal with Dunlop to supply tyres to all Euro R35's. You mentioned earlier that another tyre manufacturer bid and failed to secure a contract. If ONE of those tyres needs replacing how much should I pay? £250?, £500?, £750? It should be on a par with similar tyres produced for Porsche, BMW etc, not whatever Dunlop want to charge. That can't be fair and Nissan should resolve it. Nissan hold the key, they negotiated the deal. I wonder how much they pay Dunlop per tyre!? 

When I have to replace all four tyres Dunlop can go stuff themselves but if I get a puncture I'm totally *ucked as it stands! 

So I need to go and buy four new wheels and then I'll get a good deal on tyres! Perhaps I'll also respray the car another colour so I can get a touch up stick as well! :runaway:


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Just for info... I'm off on me-hols for a week but will update you when I get back. It could be complete rubbish but we will soon see.... my holiday and this import option


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

What concerns me, is the change in practice from available, to not available.

Given the tyres were available much cheaper at non-HPC sources ( who presumably made some mark-up) then this would appear to poor water on the argument that HPC prices are defined by low volume.

At best this is another client gaffe from the team that bought you LC2, lol.

Great car though


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Camskill sell the Toyos for sub £850 for all four!!! Albeit 5 units down on the profiles front and rear... dunno what this means to ride comfort and handling... seem to recall mixed feelings by David in his Evo inches... must reread & check....

... does Benji run the Cooper 2XSs on his machines? Sure I've seen plenty of Cooper tyre stickers on his motas! (I guess that was a hint!  )

Of course all non RFTs, so I guess some cans of tyre weld in the boot is obligatory.

P.S.: Godders have a guddan... ! :thumbsup:


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Ordered two sets as samples today to come airfreight. I will test one set with the lab and then run that set on my car. Anybody need Tyres urgently fancy testing the second set? If they are genuine you pay, if they are fake I pay. Objective testing only please!

Dunlop Certificate of Conformaty supplied... Needed to clear Customs anyway. If this works I'll arrange a group buy through Mook and the team.

PS I'm in the South West but could ship.


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Godders said:


> Ordered two sets as samples today to come airfreight. I will test one set with the lab and then run that set on my car. Anybody need Tyres urgently fancy testing the second set? If they are genuine you pay, if they are fake I pay. Objective testing only please!
> 
> Dunlop Certificate of Conformaty supplied... Needed to clear Customs anyway. If this works I'll arrange a group buy through Mook and the team.
> 
> PS I'm in the South West but could ship.


Excellent job, thanks very much for all your efforts so far on this.


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## rblvjenkins (Mar 8, 2008)

Godders said:


> Ordered two sets as samples today to come airfreight. I will test one set with the lab and then run that set on my car. Anybody need Tyres urgently fancy testing the second set? If they are genuine you pay, if they are fake I pay. Objective testing only please!
> 
> Dunlop Certificate of Conformaty supplied... Needed to clear Customs anyway. If this works I'll arrange a group buy through Mook and the team.
> 
> PS I'm in the South West but could ship.


Godders
I need tyres now, and would be happy to test the other set. Please PM me with details. 
Thanks
Rhodri


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## donnynsc (Mar 13, 2010)

What a forum, I suddenly feel that we are one big family, everyone love each other , despite a few naughty one (only one may be?) who has been punished recently:lamer:?

Still, good effort from Godders. Cheers! :clap:


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## andrew186 (May 3, 2010)

this is epic news for the 35 community

hopefully the availability of dunlops direct from india doesnt change! mine dont need replacing just yet..


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Aerodramatics said:


> Camskill sell the Toyos for sub £850 for all four!!! Albeit 5 units down on the profiles front and rear... dunno what this means to ride comfort and handling... seem to recall mixed feelings by David in his Evo inches... must reread & check....
> 
> ... does Benji run the Cooper 2XSs on his machines? Sure I've seen plenty of Cooper tyre stickers on his motas! (I guess that was a hint!  )
> 
> ...


Regarding the Cooper's I have had them as I bought Ben's Enkei's off him for my car...when Westover put the wheels onto the car with the Cooper's on they could not get it off the ramp as it dropped the car so low...I ran them for a few days and changed them. First reason for change was that ride was now rubbish..second reason was that they were too thin and the car looked all wrong...third reason was that the grip was rubbish as well...all in all rubbish tyres...put standard Dunlops on the Enkei's and they look spot on and right on the wheels...got a puncture and £550 to change tyre I was not happy with Nissan!


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

rblvjenkins said:


> Godders
> I need tyres now, and would be happy to test the other set. Please PM me with details.
> Thanks
> Rhodri


Hi, I can't PM from my iPhone (by the pool) but will do as soon as I'm home. 

My gut feel is the supplier is for real but time will tell. I might yet look a fool but we have to try!!


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

Fuggles said:


> NMGB are paying part of your first year membership fee. They actively support the club and forum. Nissan Europe provides us VIP access at events such as the Geneva Motor Show. NMGB provides us VIP and discounted access to various events as well as special invites. We are the only official online distributor for Nissan branded and GT-R barnded merchandise and receive 100% share of the profits. Nissan provide us with up to date and 'inside' information on changes and developments. In Japan we have direct access to Nissan's head of marketing and regularly meet Nissan when touring there. We have direct access to Renault-Nissan HQ in paris at the very highest level. Nissan Japan also provide us VIP and free tickets to events. As a direct result of our official status Virgin Atlantic provide us staff rates on flights to Japan (they don't do this for anyone else). We have the rights to use both the Nissan and GT-R brands on merchandise and do so perfectly legally (whereas others do not)


With all due respect, this sounds seriously like the club has such a cosy relationship with Nissan it might not be in the clubs commercial interest to push/challenge them too hard on the real issues that GTR owners face... I don't think thats a great position to be in.

With all this access to Nissan 'at the very highest levels' why are the issues owners face (listed elswhere in this thread) not being put out there and pressure being applied for Nissan to respond to?

If the only advantages in being a member of, what I believe to be, the biggest GTR community in the UK stop at discounted tickets (I must have missed the VIP access tickets for the Geneva Motorshow) , genuine merchandising and cheap flights for tours of Japan then I won't be renewing my subscription when its due :thumbsup:


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Ah Bazza 

That's cos you missed "special invites"


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## buzzer212 (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi All,

I own a shipping company, we handle imports from India all the time. If you want to bring in a container of tyres let me know the details and can give you the freight costs to delivered wherever in the UK (we have a warehouse/distribution point in Leicester (if you wanted us to recieve and distribute but that would obvioulsy add to the cost)

I recently imported 12 Bridgestone tyres from the USA myself (currently on ebay if interested), the import duty is 4.5% on top of the invoice value + shipping, VAT is 17.5% on top of the invoice value + freight + duty (the goverment don't miss a trick !).

One other thing to be weary of, to be road legal in the UK the tyres have to have an E stamp on the side of the tyre, if not then it could be a problem if your in an accident with illegal tyres on your car.

I would welcome any feedback on current prices and availability of the Bridgestone rears to save me doing the ring round.

Cheers
Nathan


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

YES.................... you MUST have "E" rated (European) tyre stamp on the side ot the tyre or the cops will catch and kill you !!!


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

*E markings*

This is what is said about tyres sold in Europe. I will have a look some more as it only seems to say SOLD not used so there may be a loop hole.

E Marking
All car tyres sold from 1st July 1997 must carry an 'E' marking. The 'E' or 'e' mark consists of an 'E' or 'e' followed by a number included in a circle of 12mm diameter or a rectangle. This symbol is followed by a further number.

The 'E' certifies that the tyre complies with the dimensional, performance and marking requirements of ECE Regulation 30.

The 'e' certifies that the tyre complies with the dimensional, performance and marking requirements of DIRECTIVE 92/23/EEC.

The number associated with the letter 'E' in the circle or 'e' in the rectangle is the code number of the government which granted the type approval (No. 11 for the British Government and a different identifying number for each of the other European countries involved).

The number outside the circle or rectangle is the number of the type approval certificate issued for that particular tyre size/type.


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

*Ireland last EU country to adopt E marking as legal requirement*

looks like the e11 type approval mark is a must for UK.:bawling:

Godders can you check your supplier has Type approval E11 for the UK???


Irish Motorists Falling Foul of E-Mark Requirement
Font size: « back to last page | Created: April 15, 2010 08:03:00 AM 
the absence of this single letter is causing 20 vehicles a day to fail their test in Ireland As of April 1 the presence of an E-Mark on tyres became mandatory in Ireland in order for cars to pass the NCT (National Car Test), the Irish MOT equivalent. While the president of the Irish Tyre Industry Association, Dave Naughton, refers to this measure as a “big step forward for road safety”, the association estimates that 50,000 tyres currently fitted to vehicles do not conform to the


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

johnhanton57 said:


> This is what is said about tyres sold in Europe. I will have a look some more as it only seems to say SOLD not used so there may be a loop hole.
> 
> E Marking
> All car tyres sold from 1st July 1997 must carry an 'E' marking. The 'E' or 'e' mark consists of an 'E' or 'e' followed by a number included in a circle of 12mm diameter or a rectangle. This symbol is followed by a further number.
> ...


bit if an irrelevance if you're running 700hp

europe; got to love it


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

bazza_g said:


> With all due respect, this sounds seriously like the club has such a cosy relationship with Nissan it might not be in the clubs commercial interest to push/challenge them too hard on the real issues that GTR owners face... I don't think thats a great position to be in.
> 
> With all this access to Nissan 'at the very highest levels' why are the issues owners face (listed elswhere in this thread) not being put out there and pressure being applied for Nissan to respond to?
> 
> If the only advantages in being a member of, what I believe to be, the biggest GTR community in the UK stop at discounted tickets (I must have missed the VIP access tickets for the Geneva Motorshow) , genuine merchandising and cheap flights for tours of Japan then I won't be renewing my subscription when its due :thumbsup:


I know either Dunlop, Nissan or both of them are taking the proverbial..

But I think it's unreasonable to expect the GTROC to be able to force Nissan / Dunlop into greatly reducing the price of these tyres. Your membership cost how much? you get free use of the forums, various events throughout the year, discounts on various things..not forgetting the welcome pack.. and for the cost of the membership pack you want to have your cake, eat it.. and eat some of Nissans and Dunlops. 

I would have thought the reason to join would be to be part of the skyline community not to get a book of Dunlop discount vouchers..


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

cleethorpes said:


> I know either Dunlop, Nissan or both of them are taking the proverbial..
> 
> But I think it's unreasonable to expect the GTROC to be able to force Nissan / Dunlop into greatly reducing the price of these tyres. Your membership cost how much? you get free use of the forums, various events throughout the year, discounts on various things..not forgetting the welcome pack.. and for the cost of the membership pack you want to have your cake, eat it.. and eat some of Nissans and Dunlops.
> 
> I would have thought the reason to join would be to be part of the skyline community not to get a book of Dunlop discount vouchers..


Am way too drunk to respond properly right now but my point was to address much more than the tyres situation as another poster earlier in the thread summarised well - I certainly didn't join to get cheap tyes! I joined as I thought I would be part of a voice to interact with Nissan on owners issues.

My intention with the post was to question if the 'club' as it is, is perhaps gown too close to Nissan to ask the tough questions, beacause of commerical interests - not just about tyres but all the other things members seem to want to know about.

An example is the gearbox fluid spec - I've had my own 'crusade' on this one since before Christmas - EU regs suggest they should let us know the spec so that, like with the engine oil, we as the end users can decide if to buy Nissan spec or one of a equal/better specification. I've been told verbally several times that Nissan will not release this information *but* I'm still waiting on my request for Nissan to put this into writing - no problem to tell me over the phone, try getting it in writing and its a different story...

Its items like this I believe the club should be getting involved with on behalf of the owners, for the owners - if I get a sunvisor as part of the welcome pack, so what? The forums are useable by non club members so what? Discounts on VIP tickets Nissan produced (I must have missed, my bad!) ? 

You can be very much part of the GTR community without joining the owners club! Maybe I just got the wrong end of the stick?


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

My reasoning when joining was to support the club and therefore the forum.. Which has been of great help to me. It's a few quid a year to show appreciation.. And I'm not starting a them and us argument but earlier model owners don't make such extreme request of the club. I do fully appreciate the fact that 35 owners appear to be getting a royal shafting..


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

I have asked the question but I am quite sure they will have the E ref. Reason is these are made in Jepan which is the same factory as the OEM units. Sample set should be delivered next week. 

Many thanks for the shipping offer. I will get in touch when I get back.

On the subject of the club; I think the club is a community with a voice which should be heard. I don't expect the club to fix the issue, but we can help each other. 

Another perspective on this issue is that Nissan took a stock position due to short supply. The only other issue is the price.


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Japan even


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## *MAGIC* (Oct 21, 2009)

Such a shame.

With all said and done it doesnt look good for anyone when thread like this pop up.
Classic example:

A friend of mine is Porsche through and through but when I started having alot of GTRs in the studio he kinda started falling for one and decided to put his 996T up for sale.
As a few weeks went past and after I had told him about this forum and he popped in to see the latest he said that he is concerned about the number of issued raised in regards to running costs and bits breaking as he never had this with Porsche.
He sold his Porsche 2 weeks after advertising it and now has a new C63 AMG.

Whoever is to blame thay need to act on what people put on this forum as people read what is said and act on it.
I can only imagine that my mate is 1 of many that have decided against the GTR due to what is said on this forum and think its a shame as the car itself is awesome.

Robbie

Just my opinion.


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## anilj (Jan 30, 2010)

I totally agree, I am so lucky that I didn't look at this forum before my purchase as I can honestly tell you that I would not have purchased. I realise that there are always going to be some issues, however the car is simply an amazing piece of engineering and 1 of 10 fastest performance cars. I have had several German marks and I can tell you this car IS in a league of its own and when I look at the purchase price, there is nothing that can match it by comparison.:thumbsup:

I do think that there is some real PR issues that need to be addressed by Nissan, but the company has brought out a breathtaking motor that most of this forum couldn't have afforded for the performance, but WHY didnt more members allow for higer than expected running costs.....what was the point of thinking that buying a Japanese sports car means that everything will be cheap and all aspects of ownership considered....:bawling:

Finally, if people are being discouraged to purchase than I'm not that bothered really as it keeps the exclusivity for us few!


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## MiGTR (Jul 31, 2007)

*MAGIC* said:


> Such a shame.
> 
> With all said and done it doesnt look good for anyone when thread like this pop up.
> Classic example:
> ...


I have a few Porsche owning friends with very similar stories, so it's not isolated thinking. I was myself very concerned about the running cost of a GTR compared to my Porker (still am), but thanks to this forum I walked into GTR ownership with open eyes. For me the GTR is too good a car not to experience once in my life, but it is tainted by what seems to be an nonchalant attitude towards after sales from Nissan. Tyres are a necessity, and as such should be readily available. I put the question to a couple of dealers this week as to the availability of the Dunlop's should I damage a tyre; the answer: "2 weeks sir". So that means I would have to lay my car up or hunt tooth and nail for an alternative; not acceptable in my book when I can ring up Porsche and have tyres for the turbo fitted the next day! (cheaper too). If Nissan expect me to pay their costs then I expect there to be readily available stock.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

I think there is a certain clarity of feeling emerging that GTROC has been doing a great job but John (who I think all acknowledge has obviously been doing a great job keeping it going) is a volunteer, along with the rest of the team, and the very small amount of money paid to the club is simply to keep it running. I agree with the comments this is a great community to belong to and looking forward (with my bank balance poised for a raping once things start to go wrong) to getting hold of Natalie's Dirty Sister. I think removing the issues we have from the club and seperating the issues is important. The club is not here to act as a legal battering ram nor should John and the guys be expected too.

There are obviously some long running issues which need resolving and from a year or two chatting on here they appear to be:

- Engine Oil Specification (which would then allow us to run any oil of that specification or higher under block exemption and keep warranty) needs confirming in writing

- Gearbox/Transmission Fluid (see above)

- Supply of tyres and subsequent alleged charging malpractice under EU trade restriction law needs clarifying and action taken if significant overcharging/restrictive trade is happening

- Service and advice inconsistancy from HPCs including oil temps and warranty issues (some fixing with Y Pipes some not - I may need clarification on this)

- Brakes and Disks not being fit for purpose and needing replacement way under what would be expected of a car of this ilk (comparison with that old enemy 911) when not tracked or driven stupidly

If these are the core issues then can we not club together, seek advice from a lawyer (I am sure between us we have a car mad litigator) and write a letter to Nissan signed on all our behalfs to show the strength of feeling. If you like I can pull together something on our behalf and we can send it without legal advice as a low cost warning shot - I am happy as a new owner to head this up and say I need this information as I have heard some concerns and I require this information to ensure when I use any oil or fluids they are conform to Nissan's standards. They will then have to either confirm in writing they are unable/unwilling to release - in which case legals start - or provide the specifications in writing and we are home free?

This keeps the GTROC away from teh firing line but we use the forum to communicate.

Thoughts and how many would be willing (in priniciple) to sign a letter on this basis?

Rog.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I have three (or maybe four) people willing to volunteer to help the GTROC that have come to the fore in the last week or so. I have yet to respond, sorry for that, but will do so as soon as I can. The GTROC has no issue with being involved directly in these matters as long as it is professionally done and is managed without histrionics and is factually based. My personal issue is the amount of time I can dedicate to such tasks. I will respond to all those that have offered as soon as i can


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## ScottyB (Jun 9, 2009)

ROG350z

I have emailed a 24/7 petrolhead lawyer who has a proven track record against the Motortrade, and have supplied him with a link to this thread.

I am sure if he is interested he will make himself known.

Regards

Scott


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

*MAGIC* said:


> Such a shame.
> With all said and done it doesnt look good for anyone when thread like this pop up.
> <snip>
> 
> ...


I don't think it's a shame at all. When I owned a Merc and had problems I felt completely on my own. What we have here thanks to the club is a community with a common wish to help each other. Would you rather be a single voice? Any buyer should join the community with knowledge of the true life positives and negatives. 

So far I have non-OEM solutions to Disk issues, great options for non-hpc servicing and soon if I can help it a solution to Dunlop tyre issues. That's damn fanastic in my book. 

Have you guys never owned performance cars before? All mine have had issues. 

Customers are always worth listening to, groups of customers are damn powerful and not easy to ignore!


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Just one more observation; it's interesting how many if those who have chosen to sell their GTR's say on this Forum. I would say that's a very good sign.


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## *MAGIC* (Oct 21, 2009)

Godders said:


> I don't think it's a shame at all. When I owned a Merc and had problems I felt completely on my own. What we have here thanks to the club is a community with a common wish to help each other. Would you rather be a single voice? Any buyer should join the community with knowledge of the true life positives and negatives.
> 
> So far I have non-OEM solutions to Disk issues, great options for non-hpc servicing and soon if I can help it a solution to Dunlop tyre issues. That's damn fanastic in my book.
> 
> ...



My "such a shame" comment was towards the companys that put the owners in this position not anything else. :thumbsup:

Robbie


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

Sorry, Robbie, I took it the other way. I think we make the same point; it's certainly a shame when you have a great product but the manufacturer doesn't listen to it's customers....


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## samk (Oct 11, 2009)

Godders, if they stack up I would be interested definetly


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## *MAGIC* (Oct 21, 2009)

Godders said:


> Sorry, Robbie, I took it the other way. I think we make the same point; it's certainly a shame when you have a great product but the manufacturer doesn't listen to it's customers....


Absolutely :thumbsup:


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

*MAGIC* said:


> Such a shame.
> 
> With all said and done it doesnt look good for anyone when thread like this pop up.
> Classic example:
> ...


Agreed. The poor back up service from Nissan that I've read about on this Forum one reason I am replacing my GTR with an RS5. In particular the long down time experienced by some.


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

[email protected]

how many r35 owners are there on here... maybe a bombardment to topgear might get it mentioned..


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

that was muted on here a while ago but because of the "special" arrangement between club + Nissan, I don't think it ever got off the ground


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

I'd do it ...but I don't have an r35 so not really my place. Whatever the agreement between the gtroc and Nissan, it is clearly that pretty much all owners are unhappy with the goings on so they need to wake up and start giving some answers. An official statement from Nissan UK giving their position is the minimum for starters. Though descisions might ultimately be made in a big old office over the water....where they might see the uk R35 market as a minor part of the overall picture.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I think people are getting confused. There are a number of tyre suppliers that make tyres for the standard rims fitted to the Nissan GTR. They choose to provide these at the rates they believe the market will bear and are subject to competition. If suppliers decide to not supply to the UK or those that do charge a high rate I'm not sure how that is Nissan's fault. Also, these tyres fit standard rims, there is always the option - as the majority of previous GTR owners have done, to fit after market rims.

The relationship with Nissan is strong enough to survive a disagreement even of this scale and Nissan are fully aware of the feelings here. So if there is an issue with Nissan there is no issue with taking it to them but the facts are that it's the tyre manufacturers that are the ones we should be aiming at.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Fuggles said:


> I think people are getting confused. There are a number of tyre suppliers that make tyres for the standard rims fitted to the Nissan GTR. They choose to provide these at the rates they believe the market will bear and are subject to competition. If suppliers decide to not supply to the UK or those that do charge a high rate I'm not sure how that is Nissan's fault. Also, these tyres fit standard rims, there is always the option - as the majority of previous GTR owners have done, to fit after market rims.
> 
> The relationship with Nissan is strong enough to survive a disagreement even of this scale and Nissan are fully aware of the feelings here. So if there is an issue with Nissan there is no issue with taking it to them but the facts are that it's the tyre manufacturers that are the ones we should be aiming at.


Yes, there are other tyres to fit the R35 rims but, as a few have found out, they are inferior to the runflats by Dunlop and Bridgestone. If you go down the non-runflat route, then you have to have a spare or risk being put on a transporter to get you home. Why should you have to get a set of aftermarket rims just to suit tyre availability? I like the standard rims, I am prepared to pay a reasonable (albeit slightly inflated) price for Dunlops, so am I being unreasonable to expect them to be available when I want them?

Agreed, it is not directly Nissan's fault, but surely they could apply pressure to the tyre manufacturers as, at present, Dunlop and Bridgstone are helping to damage the reputution of Nissan.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Good luck to whoever tries to get Nissan GB to see sense on some of these issues, as the reality is that they simply are following Japans instructions and won't overrule them in most cases.

After a while they simply refused to actually answer my questions about the R35. I suspect because they have no genuine answer.

For example, I asked them why there is a time-based oil service interval of 6 months on a GTR, when the exact same Mobile One oil in a Porsche 911 has a 24 month interval. This is not mileage-based, but for cars that are barely or never used. Does Mobil One degrade 4x faster when unused in a GTR sump vs a 911 sump? Why does a car that is garaged in Sept for the winter, need an oil-change when it is first used again in March, even Ferrari and Lamborghini's don't need this!

Similarly, a 911 twin-clutch gearbox has a 120,000 mile service interval (yes 120,000 miles!), whereas Nissan have 18,000 at best and 3,000 if you actually use the car hard. This is not a small difference, it's so large it's embarrassing!


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Also, these tyres fit standard rims, there is always the option - as the majority of previous GTR owners have done, to fit after market rims.


You are joking yes ? So we should all buy after market rims for a £60k car because Nissan don't have tyres in stock and when they do they are twice the price of what other manufacturers charge ?


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

John

I think what riles is that up to the early part of this year, the Dunlops were available from other retail sources for £600 to £800 less at around £1500 (or less?) - it is not reasonable to assume there was an acceptable profit for the manufacturer, distributor and retailer in this amount.

So now they are only available from HPC's they are £2200ish - the question is why? Is it profiteering by the HPC or are the prices the tyres are being sold by Dunlop to Nissan gone up by 50%?

What is clear is that Nissan could clarify why the price is so high by answering the above question - the fact they are choosing not too can only lead to the "rip-off" conclusion that R35 owners are complaining about.

John - I really don't think you can state categorically to solely blame the manufacturer without an official response to these points. The sooner we have an R35 rep the sooner all may become clear.

David


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

sumo69 said:


> John
> 
> I think what riles is that up to the early part of this year, the Dunlops were available from other retail sources for £600 to £800 less at around £1500 (or less?) - it is not reasonable to assume there was an acceptable profit for the manufacturer, distributor and retailer in this amount.
> 
> ...


Guy was our last R35 rep and if you look at his comments earlier in this thread you'll see it's an uphill battle. Nissan here in the UK just do as they're told by the Corporation. To suggest changing our rims to find a cheaper tyre when the tyre was at a realistic price before Nissan started interfering is madness.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Fuggles said:


> I think people are getting confused. There are a number of tyre suppliers that make tyres for the standard rims fitted to the Nissan GTR. They choose to provide these at the rates they believe the market will bear and are subject to competition. If suppliers decide to not supply to the UK or those that do charge a high rate I'm not sure how that is Nissan's fault. *Also, these tyres fit standard rims, there is always the option - as the majority of previous GTR owners have done, to fit after market rims.*
> 
> The relationship with Nissan is strong enough to survive a disagreement even of this scale and Nissan are fully aware of the feelings here. So if there is an issue with Nissan there is no issue with taking it to them but the facts are that it's the tyre manufacturers that are the ones we should be aiming at.


What a ridiculous thing to say. I spend £60k on a car and you want me to go out and spend more money on a set of extra wheels because the tyres the car was developed with are no longer financially viable or available.

Are you mad ?


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

and i'm getting sick and tired of hearing about this special "relationship" with the club.

R35's aside 99% of Skylines are imports which Nissan want nothing to do with generally, members source parts themselves via a great network of independents and support each other via the forum.

I'm really struggling to see how, if and when the club actually represent owners when there is an issue of concern. Respect to Guy for previous his efforts though.

So please what is so special about the relationship ?


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

32, 33 and 34 are pretty much dealing with cars Nissan UK had nothing to do with and as such do not expect the club to liase with Nissan in the vast majority of cases. 35 owners are a different kettle of fish, their cars are sold here and as such they view the club as a conduit to put pressure on Nissan UK. My opinion is that the club is for owners interested in the community as a whole, sourcing info and help from other members etc etc.

I think too many new owners think, as I mentioned before, that the club has super powers of magical persuasion and can get one of the worlds largest car manufactures to bow down before them. 

Nissan / Dunlop..whoever are taking the pee but unless the topman wants changes, changes won't happen... all the club can do is beg... i mean ask..


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

IMPREGNATE NISSAN :bawling:..still love the motor:thumbsup: so will look at changing rims and tyres to allow long term ownership without getting IMPREGNATED.:bawling:

What 19" or 18" rims do the folks on here recommend.prefer 19" for cooling brakes but are 19" tyres readily available.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

I think that's bob-on, Cleethorpes. "Beg" - I like it, very apt. :thumbsup:

We can bitch and moan as much as we like, but the Nissan leadership are disinterested. :blahblah:

They have made their policy to profit from spares & repairs as a monopoly supplier and have no interest in reducing their profit margins. The hard reality is they & the HPCs are in business to make money and we are their cash cows. :runaway:

The only way to change things is to buy from other sources, imho. :sadwavey:

Market forces are powerful persuaders; if you are selling nothing because you are uncompetitive, then you'd best find ways to lower your prices or go out of business. :banned:

The aftermarket is only too pleased to step in; the profit margins are so high, they can cut the OEM in two and still make good healthy profits. :squintdan

I'll be doing without RFTs in the future; or joining group buys for Dunnies. + sourcing consumables from the merchants online here. :wavey:

Everyone's a winner. I for one can't be bothered with NMGB any more, life's too short. I'm happy to go for a quick separation, followed by a pain-free divorce before kids get involved, if you follow my analogy. No point flogging a dead horse and all that. opcorn:


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Aerodramatics said:


> I think that's bob-on. "Beg" - I like it, very apt. :thumbsup:
> 
> We can bitch and moan as much as we like, but the Nissan leadership are disinterested. :blahblah:
> 
> ...



+1:thumbsup:


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

cleethorpes said:


> I think too many new owners think, as I mentioned before, that the club has super powers of magical persuasion and can get one of the worlds largest car manufactures to bow down before them.


No not at all but there appears to be no inclination for the club to help us out in any shape or form, lot's of huff and puff about not wanting to spoil the special relationship between the club and Nissan but my argument is how exactly do the vast majority of members benefit from this ?

When I had a 33 I accepted that sourcing parts and paying overseas shipping costs etc. was part of the ownership experience but the 35 is totally different as a UK supplied vehicle and should be supported in an appropriate way by Nissan. What get's my goat is the reluctance of the club to "upset" Nissan by pointing out a few very unfair and short sighted policies in a constructive manner, that's hardly upsetting anyone but all I see is the club defending Nissan at every turn.

If the club and Nissan can't see the level of unrest from owners on here and make some kind of effort then they really don't deserve our business in the future.


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

I understand what you are saying but I feel it likely the 'relationship' is more of a friendly agreement, and if the big party don't want to play ball, then no ball will be played.
Nissan recognise the gtroc but I'm sure they will only really be interested in change if it means more of the old foldy stuff in their pockets. Just view the club as what it is.. petrolheads with nice toys, talking to similar folk !

The arguments being raised would be better directed to .I don't know... motoring journo's from all the major newspapers and broadsheets.... top gear... that irritating, lesser not really that good in my opinion program called fifth gear.. and possibly Lepu in the arches in East london somewhere.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

The unrest problem is simply you go to buy tyres and are told there are none in stock anywhere...

... and are then left stranded with well dodgy dunnies...! :nervous: Then it only goes and buckets down and all that grease lifts off the roads... and the cops are everywhere and our insurance is invalid :bawling: ... safer to catch a bus! (and that's saying something with the Schumi mk. II bus-drivers of today!). 

I never realised I had to hedge against the dunny market! 

I have a new strategy: I'm buying a tyre rack and buying in when prices are good! :thumbsup: 

Damn, if *only* I thought of that 12 months ago.... doh! :flame: Then again, I thought tings would get cheaper once the number of R35s grew to a decent number... blast, got that one wrong!

P.S. Was thinking of investing in Falklands Islands oil exploration shares too.... might've missed the boat on that one too...!


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Aerodramatics said:


> The unrest problem is simply you go to buy tyres and are told there are none in stock anywhere...
> 
> ... and are then left stranded with well dodgy dunnies...! :nervous: Then it only goes and buckets down and all that grease lifts off the roads... and the cops are everywhere and our insurance is invalid :bawling: ... safer to catch a bus! (and that's saying something with the Schumi mk. II bus-drivers of today!).
> 
> ...



Nah,

You'll still make money on FI shares:thumbsup:


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## bobd (Mar 25, 2008)

It really is not in the best interest of Nissan to allow this debacle to continue, nor Dunlop nor Bridgestone. Continue it does however!
I was looking forward to three years ownership with my GTR after a long wait.
As far as I am concerned those who track and sprint will use aftermarket and get on with it, but those who just want to drive and enjoy the car as intended are the ones being held to ransom.
Nissan are a market leading company and should be more interested in what's going on than it would seem they are. Do any of the HPC's ever report back any heartfelt issues from owners? 
I think not. 
Also with the state of customer service at Nissan HQ you would get a satisfactory response more readily from a conversation with Vic Reeves.
I keep saying it but what a missed opportunity. I was already planning my 2011 car three month ago and now these plonkers have lost that, and any chance of me returning is doomed.
We have another owner in NI leaving the fold soon as well.
I feel so strongly about all this bullshit its unreal. Never have I been so angry about apathy shown by a manufacturer towards its customers.

Nissan Press Release 2009
GTR to be launched April/ May 2009 in UK
We will not be issuing any warranty on the brake discs, but will only tell you on delivery day. They wont last 20000 miles
The car must be serviced every six months even though there is only room for 12 month stamps in your service book.
If you track the car the gearbox oil will need changing at £650.00
You will need a pre track inspection at £280.00
and one afterwards at the same price.
Your new tyres when required will be hard to locate and will be twice the price of any other performance car.
A safety system has been installed that will require £8000.00 of repairs if you have a low speed impact.
There wont be a blue available for a while yet, but we can confirm the paintwork on your vehicle will be quite soft with swirl marks - this is normal.

I know this is a bit tongue in cheek, but seriously this is what we ended up with.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Some discs started cracking badly at 3000 miles, mine lasted until 11K... + two charity days... yikes! Still, inevitable as all the others... :clap:

Who's got 20K+....? Brilliant driving! (but don't let them take one proper thermal cycle - they will probably shatter!!!) :runaway:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

rather than pick various quotes from above responses and deal with in turn perhaps it would be better to explain the following:
There is a direct relationship between the GTROC and Nissan and it affords us a lot of advantages and opportunities. It provides us direct access and a way to air our issues but also work positively. This issue is not one that will harm that relationship and we can certainly take this directly to Nissan without any issue. For those that ask "why the club isn't doing anything", we are. However we are staffed exclusively by non-paid volunteers so, unless you've 'put your hand up' to do something for the club please don't ask what the club is doing about it if you cannot be bothered to help. As regards the issue itself I have had numerous phone calls and exchanges of email with Nissan on this and spent a lot of my own personal time on this matter. Silence is not a sign of a lack of progress. In fact I have said on several occasions that we are discussing with Nissan. 

For those that have voluntered help, I will respond this week. Thank you


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Guy said:


> Good luck to whoever tries to get Nissan GB to see sense on some of these issues, as the reality is that they simply are following Japans instructions and won't overrule them in most cases.
> 
> After a while they simply refused to actually answer my questions about the R35. I suspect because they have no genuine answer.
> 
> ...



Guy thanks for the insight. 

FWIW this is the first i've read about your experience as the R35 liaison and from what you've said

a) i owe you an apology for giving you a hard time - clearly there is very little you can achieve in the role

b) membership of gtroc (not gtr.co.uk which is separate and free to use for those who don't get the distinction) doesn't seem to offer me anything personally. And for that reason i won't be renewing. Sorry. I will still try to help out on gtr.co.uk where i can.

My separate thoughts are:

I don't care about the 'special relationship' GTROC have with NissanGB.
It seems to me to be serving some purpose, but not the purpose that being a member of a forum means to me. eg strength in mass and collective experience. Further i'd expect with the 'special relationship' to be getting written answers about, oil temps, vdc, tyres, servicing, paint, etc, (Aside: I notice GTROC taking credit for stuff EvoVI and some of the Euro guys did with regards to the oil temps!:chairshot)

Simple point in fact, that if GTROC want (and that's the question) R35 owners as members and not just of gtr.co.uk, a little more feedback from these discussions/meetings with Nissan would be good. eg if they are just like Guy says telling us to GTF we at least know where we stand. Remember the old thread with the questions prior to us picking up our cars?!

We could start a new one :flame:

1) Why are the tyres around £750 quid more from HPC's?


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

I don't think you should all be blaming the club, Nissan are the ones not pulling their weight in the deal. The club is a whole lot more than an avenue for us to bitch and moan at Nissan. You would all regret not having the clubs organisation, Its pretty sad really. Your pissing over everyone at the clubs efforts, just because Nissan aren't listening.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

robsm said:


> I don't think you should all be blaming the club, Nissan are the ones not pulling their weight in the deal. The club is a whole lot more than an avenue for us to bitch and moan at Nissan. You would all regret not having the clubs organisation, Its pretty sad really. Your pissing over everyone at the clubs efforts, just because Nissan aren't listening.


I personally am not blaming GTROC for Nissans actions.

What i am saying is GTROC is making too much of this relationship they have with Nissan and further not really telling us the outcome of any discussions with Nissan.

I'll give you one example.

I paid £107 for my service by my HPC at 6months because i had only 2.8k on the clock. What did everyone else pay with a similar situ? More i'm pretty sure.
Has the club taken than up with Nissan so that there is a consistent message with regards to time based servicing on low mileage cars? It should at least have been made a sticky so everyone would know.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I've just checked,............. of the four people that have voluntered to help misters3 is not one of them. So, whilst you may feel you're getting nothing from the GTROC I see you're also happy to sit back and hope that someone else will do it for you. Oh well, I guess it's easier to be critical than it is to actually do something about it 

For those who have voluntered their services I will be in touch with you all in person this week. Thank you


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I've just checked,............. of the four people that have voluntered to help misters3 is not one of them. So, whilst you may feel you're getting nothing from the GTROC I see you're also happy to sit back and hope that someone else will do it for you. Oh well, I guess it's easier to be critical than it is to actually do something about it
> 
> For those who have voluntered their services I will be in touch with you all in person this week. Thank you


It beggars belief, some people really do expect everything to be done for them, seemingly for little or no payment. It's a bloody Owners Club not a new product from JML " All your prayers answered".... not that I'd know where to get it now woolies is closed.

I'm sure the Rover Owners club didn't expect their admin to demand Rover didn't cease trading... 

It's to get info, meet other owners, go to events, get news, find parts etc... etc etc... some people expect the damn earth.. get real.. irritating 

I think taking your frustrations out on the admin of the owners club is not the thing to do. If you don't want to renew your membership ...then all I can say is goodbye.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Do HPC's buy them direct from Dunlop, or through Nissan?

Any HPC's fancy anonymously letting us know the "cost" price.

mook


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Mookistar said:


> Do HPC's buy them direct from Dunlop, or through Nissan?
> 
> Any HPC's fancy anonymously letting us know the "cost" price.
> 
> mook


My info is that many are just trying to get them from anywhere right now.


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

To "Fuggles"

I appreciate the club is volunteer-only, I have been involved in some similar ones in the past. I would therefore suggest that you ask for help and admit that you don't have the time instead of berating paying members for "doing nothing". They have, they pay the subscription fees that are used in some way......I think you would get far better response if you were more open and transparent. Especially around the "benefits and opportunities" when you use this to seemingly deflect accusations of doing nothing

I am a 6 week old owner, so for the record I have not decided yet whether to join the club. I am busy researching and sourcing parts including tyres from anywhere I have contacts and will let you all know if I have any success - all without any of you having to pay a subscription for it

All imho


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

I think the problem here is that fuggles keeps mentioning the "special relationship" and most of us fail to see how this benefits us as members so clarity is required nothing more.

If as he says these issues have been raised with Nissan several times and the process appears to be exhausted then why not publish the dialogue on the site so that as owners we can decide our next move ?

I would be happy to discuss the issue with Nissan as a representative of a group of owners if I am in possession of the full facts on what has been said on both sides so far, one owner alone will not make a difference and I feel very strongly that something could be done with the whole hearted backing of the club and a large group combining their forces.

One final point and that is please let's not keep hearing how this is all done on a voluntary basis and using that as ammunition against members who dare to complain, we all know these clubs are run by volunteers and are truly grateful for all the effort put in but it does not mean things can't be improved and alienating people will not help to attract people to come forward and get involved. I would be willing to give up some time to help but NOT whilst the current attitude prevails, it's Nissan that should be bearing the brunt of all anger and frustration not club members and committee members turning on each other.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I've just checked,............. of the four people that have voluntered to help misters3 is not one of them. So, whilst you may feel you're getting nothing from the GTROC I see you're also happy to sit back and hope that someone else will do it for you. Oh well, I guess it's easier to be critical than it is to actually do something about it
> 
> For those who have voluntered their services I will be in touch with you all in person this week. Thank you


John

Feel free to add me to the list.

BUT 
I haven't put myself forward because i'd would definitely ask questions such that GTROC's 'special relationship' with NissanGB might not be what it was. And i have no interest in doing that as there are plenty of others who benefit from that relationship. 

eg 

Getting a GTR for a week to drive round the UK
Fights to factory in Japan 

I don't begrudge anyone those things, as i know its time consuming work you do. 

BUT at the same time don't expect the rest of us to sit back and be happy when we can't get Dunlops without paying a £700 premium.

As for contributing. I'll mention once again. I got my 6 month service done for £107 by my HPC. I keep posting about it to let others know. That's over £100 saved for anyone who does low mileage. I've discussed the 12 month service with a few guys already as i'm coming up for it, and again there is variation from the same HPC. Once i get a price i'm happy with i'll report on that, so everyone after me can get the same. Again money in our back pocket.

BTW
What have Nissan said to GTROC about the ridiculous servicing situation? And what have GTROC asked NissanGB about it?



So if you want me to be the liaison PM me, i'm happy to do it. But i'm not in it for freebies or for cultivating a good relationship, i will ask all the awkward questions (remember that list from last year) and report back exactly what was said. If that is okay, count me in and bring it on :clap:


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Nearly 300 Nissan GTR owners on this Forum alone !


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Just read the 2 posts above mine.

Far more eloquent - i should have just "+1" on both


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

misters3 said:


> Just read the 2 posts above mine.
> 
> Far more eloquent - i should have just "+1" on both


No I think maybe we could make the bullets and you can fire them, got a tin hat ? LMAO

But seriously you make some very valid points.

My car was on 8k when I needed a 12 month service and I got quotes ranging from £475 to £541 from various HPC's but in the end Litchfield did it for £294 and to be quite frank did what I consider a much better job than any HPC would do (maybe Ancaster aside after reading good things on here).

When I bought a 60k car I signed up to pay significantly more for servicing and parts than a standard car but not to the extent that Nissan are taking the piss. 

Do Nissan think they have somehow magically tapped into an bottomless money pit made up of affluent mugs who will splash the cash ? Well let me tell you Nissan, you don't get to own a £60k car by being flippant with money and allowing yourself to be turned over.

How much have Nissan lost already to Litchfield ? Do they care ? Lot's of unanswered questions, pricing aside it's also the quality of the service and workmanship from the HPC's which is shocking in some cases.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

I have access to cost price of Bridgestones and Dunlops but need to make a call .........


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Chris956 said:


> I have access to cost price of Bridgestones and Dunlops but need to make a call .........


Chris it seems strange that Bridgestones are also unavailable for a full set, could you please try and find out why ?

Could it be that as Bridgestone supply the oem tyres for the Jap spec cars they have been leaned on by Nissan Europe and don't want to lose the contract to supply the JDM market ?


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

and lets not forget not only Litchfield’s doing a splendid job of showing the HPC's & Nissan the way but also all the other Benji, KK etc


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

christer said:


> I think you would get far better response if you were more open and transparent. Especially around the "benefits and opportunities"


I do hope you join as the benefits and advantages are quite good - but could always be better. There is never, never has and all the time I am involved never will be, anything that is not open or transparent. Whether it is publishing the accounts, organising and promoting events, providing direct access to all of the management team or any other matter we aim and always strive to be completely open. Somethimes it is not possible to go into detail and sometimes discussions are just discussions and until outcomes are achieved there is nothing to say other than 'discussions are ongoing'.

I hope you will find that is the case, if it is not we will strive harder to be more open.



imattersuk said:


> If as he says these issues have been raised with Nissan several times and the process appears to be exhausted then why not publish the dialogue on the site so that as owners we can decide our next move ?
> 
> I would be happy to discuss the issue with Nissan as a representative of a group of owners if I am in possession of the full facts on what has been said on both sides so far, one owner alone will not make a difference and I feel very strongly that something could be done with the whole hearted backing of the club and a large group combining their forces.
> 
> One final point and that is please let's not keep hearing how this is all done on a voluntary basis and using that as ammunition against members who dare to complain, we all know these clubs are run by volunteers and are truly grateful for all the effort put in but it does not mean things can't be improved and alienating people will not help to attract people to come forward and get involved. I would be willing to give up some time to help but NOT whilst the current attitude prevails, it's Nissan that should be bearing the brunt of all anger and frustration not club members and committee members turning on each other.


Thank you and I especially thank you for the last bit. It is incredibly frustrating for all, and it's not just a one-man-band! There is nothing to say other than Nissan have made a note of our issue but feel it is not for them to comment nor for them to resolve. It will be pursued further and conversations will continue. As for document what has been said, there is nothing significant and concrete to say. Sorry  Thank you for your comments on the current attitude, it's nice to see that some people are able to recognise berating those trying to make a difference, whether or not they succeed, is not helpful



misters3 said:


> eg
> 
> Getting a GTR for a week to drive round the UK
> Fights to factory in Japan


Any club member, including people on the management committee and those going to events pay their own air fare, hotels and everything else. For the five trips to Japan that I have previously organised I have never claimed any of my costs and neither has anyone else within the club. Believe me I do this with passion not for the freebies! (there aren't any). There is only so many times you enjoy a trip to Top Secret and look around a warehouse full of cars! However it still has to be done for those new to the trip even though for me it's a most hideously boring visit. Thank good ness for the people - that's what the trip is really about  It may be great the first time but five trips to Super-Autobachs really isn't all that!




misters3 said:


> I don't begrudge anyone those things, as i know its time consuming work you do.


Thank you




misters3 said:


> What have Nissan said to GTROC about the ridiculous servicing situation? And what have GTROC asked NissanGB about it?


Quite a lot. Look back over old threads on transmission temperatures, pre and post track days inspections and so on. There is more than you might think.




misters3 said:


> So if you want me to be the liaison PM me, i'm happy to do it. ............... i will ask all the awkward questions (remember that list from last year) and report back exactly what was said. If that is okay, count me in and bring it on :clap:


You're now on my list. Thank you 


*A SUGGESTION/REQUEST*
The GTROC has a very good relationship with Nissan and it does afford us some benefits and is for the good of the club. If people want to see a difference then it falls to those elected/appointed to make a difference and it follows that those not elected/appointed or not willing to volunteer get behind those trying to do something rather than taking pot-shots at the very people trying to make a difference. Success will come in some areas but it's not always a given and it does not always come easily. I am sure there is more all of the committee could do and I am sure we could all be a little better at our 'jobs'. If we can focus on the issue rather than descending into a diatribe then I for one will feel less pressured and I am sure those willing to help will feel more inclined so to do.


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## manjit (Dec 17, 2009)

Very interesting, I was just browsing the web and this popped up????

Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT Tires, Sell tires - Tyre


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

imattersuk said:


> Chris it seems strange that Bridgestones are also unavailable for a full set, could you please try and find out why ?
> 
> Could it be that as Bridgestone supply the oem tyres for the Jap spec cars they have been leaned on by Nissan Europe and don't want to lose the contract to supply the JDM market ?


I`ll ask but keeps going to voicemail now its past 5. Will try again tomorrow


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

Fuggles said:


> However we are staffed exclusively by non-paid volunteers so, unless you've 'put your hand up' to do something for the club please don't ask what the club is doing about it if you cannot be bothered to help.


Charming, so as a paid up GTROC member I'd better not enquire about whats happening in the club? This just gets better and better :clap:

As with Misters3 below, put me down if you need some GTR liason help - I appear to have my very own contact at Nissan case management who's due to call me tomorrow (and if he doesn't I'll be calling him!) - hell put me down as tea-boy for the next AGM if it means I can still ask questions about what the club is up to!


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

You got us all queuing up Fuggles ;-)


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

manjit said:


> Very interesting, I was just browsing the web and this popped up????
> 
> Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT Tires, Sell tires - Tyre


Just sent them an enquiry for more details on originality and E11 code. Worth a punt at that price:thumbsup:


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## manjit (Dec 17, 2009)

johnhanton57 said:


> Just sent them an enquiry for more details on originality and E11 code. Worth a punt at that price:thumbsup:


I will do the same, they are not the only ones that I found


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

bazza_g said:


> Charming, so as a paid up GTROC member I'd better not enquire about whats happening in the club? This just gets better and better


Sorry I've now re-read that and see how you've interpreted it. My mistake. By all means enquire and by all means get involved. I was trying to get the point across that we are trying to make progress and there is no reason not to update people when there is something to update on. Sorry, my mistake


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## rblvjenkins (Mar 8, 2008)

johnhanton57 said:


> Just sent them an enquiry for more details on originality and E11 code. Worth a punt at that price:thumbsup:


....and not only that, I've just been offered $100,000,000 by a Nigerian princess who's not too well at the moment......


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Can't see me paying dealer prices for either tyre; and I really hope the Bridgestones continue to be available elsewhere.

I am not big on GTR moans, we should all be thankful we are fortunate enough to own one.



.


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

rblvjenkins said:


> ....and not only that, I've just been offered $100,000,000 by a Nigerian princess who's not too well at the moment......


Funny that i was offered $1mm to help move some cash and all i had to give them was my account number.

PS: I'm in Lagos on Sunday can i look the princess up for you


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

manjit said:


> Very interesting, I was just browsing the web and this popped up????
> 
> Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT Tires, Sell tires - Tyre


OMG! Don't ya just love the global economy? :thumbsup:

£320 ($500) for a full set plus shipping!!!! 

What's the catch...?


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

The catch is it's a scam. Avoid. I've been checking all of them out locally.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Godders said:


> The catch is it's a scam. Avoid. I've been checking all of them out locally.


they'll be just fine , I'm sure


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

I spoke to Camskill just now who had Bridgestones in until recently. They say that the tyre manufacturers can sell to whoever or how many or few places as they want, and for some reason they now only want to sell to Nissan Bridgestone do not have a date for more stock either, so I guess going to non-runflats in the next few months may be on the cards. Mind you, Tyreweld is not that expensive


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## giggsy (Oct 13, 2007)

ok to non-run flats? need new tyres soon..finding it hard to justify over £500 for 1 tyre


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

So is the implication, that Bridgies are drying up too, in terms of non HPC supply?

"Hello dear I've just spent 3 grand on a service and some new tyres." Can't see me ever saying this.........


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Chris956 said:


> I`ll ask but keeps going to voicemail now its past 5. Will try again tomorrow


OK , spoken to him now and strangely the Dunlops have dropped off of his ordering system which he found weird and couldnt explain. The Bridgestones were on there and came out at :

Front - £280.09
Rears - £308.28

He stated you can take 15% off those prices for cost


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## donnynsc (Mar 13, 2010)

misters3 said:


> John
> 
> Feel free to add me to the list.
> 
> ...


+1 :thumbsup:


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

These are pretty much the same prices as Camskill had them at.....althoughnow Bridgestone say they don't have stock and don't know when they will have stock.....however I am not saying that it will be the same as the Dunlop situation, I am saying I *hope* it won't be the same


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

Chris956 said:


> OK , spoken to him now and strangely the Dunlops have dropped off of his ordering system which he found weird and couldnt explain. The Bridgestones were on there and came out at :
> 
> Front - £280.09
> Rears - £308.28
> ...


Mind you when you search on the Kwik Fit website they don't have any in stock.....^^


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I've spoken to a few of the potential "willing" volunteers today, sorry I did not get to speak to you all. News will be forthcoming soon on how we can help in taking this forward.

I also spoke (again) to someone at Nissan and have another call scheduled for Monday with someone else. _Just for those that suggest I'm not providing updates_. The main issue is in fact two issues - speed of access to new rubber, the price of new rubber. For the NHPCs (or anyone) to have the rubber in stock they have to buy them in and hold them. As the tyres are different sizes front and rear this means the spares management issue is larger than for a single size. So it then requires anyone holding tyres to invest in buying them up front. With the prices for tyres being as they are companies are loathe to have that amount of money sitting on the shelves, especially in these tough financial times. So in fact the two issues are linked, albeit they manifest themselves in diffferent ways. Whilst there is nothing I can do right now to resolve the price question I can inform you that tyres are available but it will probably need you to inform your NHPC early that you will be coming in rather than treating the dealership as a drop-in centre. Not ideal I agree, but it's a start.


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## tomgtr (May 24, 2008)

If finance would be the issue I would be happy to pre-finance the tires and let Nissan store them for me. Interest rates not really at a level where this will increase the price.
That is, if they would sell them at a reasonable price. I will get my next set from tirerack!! Bought my all season dunlops and enkei rims from there and happy with their service.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks for the update John. 

GTR tyre 'futures' ; we could run a little Market


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I've spoken to a few of the potential "willing" volunteers today, sorry I did not get to speak to you all. News will be forthcoming soon on how we can help in taking this forward.
> 
> I also spoke (again) to someone at Nissan and have another call scheduled for Monday with someone else. _Just for those that suggest I'm not providing updates_. The main issue is in fact two issues - speed of access to new rubber, the price of new rubber. For the NHPCs (or anyone) to have the rubber in stock they have to buy them in and hold them. As the tyres are different sizes front and rear this means the spares management issue is larger than for a single size. So it then requires anyone holding tyres to invest in buying them up front. With the prices for tyres being as they are companies are loathe to have that amount of money sitting on the shelves, especially in these tough financial times. So in fact the two issues are linked, albeit they manifest themselves in diffferent ways. Whilst there is nothing I can do right now to resolve the price question I can inform you that tyres are available but it will probably need you to inform your NHPC early that you will be coming in rather than treating the dealership as a drop-in centre. Not ideal I agree, but it's a start.


Some points taken there John, but I would suggest a polite response to Nissan in that their extortionate prices compared to everybody else who supplies GTR tyres is ridiculous and damages their HPCs businesses.

If they dropped their prices such that they still made a healthy profit over these other suppliers, they would shift more stock and not have to worry about them sitting on shelves.

The only reason they will be worried about having tyres on shelves is precisely because they wont sell many at those over the top prices.

I very much appreciate your time and effort in talking with Nissan, and I also understand that you are in the middle here. 

However I certainly would appreciate it if you could pass to Nissan GB the feelings of many of us owners.

And that is that the over pricing of parts, including tyres, must stop if they are to continue having the support of the very enthusiasts who have made the R35 the big success it has been in the UK.

A simple example is the rear view mirror. I costed one for a project from HPC and was quoted over £1000. That very same mirror is available for £70 from online stores. here

I challenge anybody at Nissan to tell me with a straight face that the HPC's price is justified either in this example or for many other parts.


By their intransigence over parts and consumable prices, they are alienating GTR owners and putting off new ones.

I for one struggle to believe that intelligent people at Nissan GB cannot see that foolishness for what it is.

Finally John, I do thank you for the time you give on our behalf. I for one very much appreciate it.


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

CC

There you have the answer - the problem is a lack of intelligent people @ Nissan UK!

D


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

charles charlie said:


> Some points taken there John, but I would suggest a polite response to Nissan in that their extortionate prices compared to everybody else who supplies GTR tyres is ridiculous and damages their HPCs businesses.
> 
> If they dropped their prices such that they still made a healthy profit over these other suppliers, they would shift more stock and not have to worry about them sitting on shelves.
> 
> ...


The whole parts issue hasn't gone away, it's just everyone is bored sh**less wasting their breath talking to Nissan. Just ask the Nissan "approved" repair centres. They've all invested in equipment they never use. Cars come in, and get written off! No repair, no diagnostic equipment required. 

It is hitting Insurers to such an extent I predict the R35's biggest Insurer (we all know who they are) will pull up the shutters before the end of the year. Just think, a single windscreen claim is costing them £1,600! A wheel (and tyre) over £2000! A headlamp (just one) , over £850 plus labour! My lump of steel was over £1200 (rear quarter panel) X 3 to paint and fit. Thats 50% more than for a DB9! Sorry rant over!


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## bobd (Mar 25, 2008)

waltong said:


> The whole parts issue hasn't gone away, it's just everyone is bored sh**less wasting their breath talking to Nissan. Just ask the Nissan "approved" repair centres. They've all invested in equipment they never use. Cars come in, and get written off! No repair, no diagnostic equipment required.
> 
> It is hitting Insurers to such an extent I predict the R35's biggest Insurer (we all know who they are) will pull up the shutters before the end of the year. Just think, a single windscreen claim is costing them £1,600! A wheel (and tyre) over £2000! A headlamp (just one) , over £850 plus labour! My lump of steel was over £1200 (rear quarter panel) X 3 to paint and fit. Thats 50% more than for a DB9! Sorry rant over!


It is not satisfactory and never has been. Nissan are taking the p***


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I've spoken to a few of the potential "willing" volunteers today, sorry I did not get to speak to you all. News will be forthcoming soon on how we can help in taking this forward.
> 
> I also spoke (again) to someone at Nissan and have another call scheduled for Monday with someone else. _Just for those that suggest I'm not providing updates_. The main issue is in fact two issues - speed of access to new rubber, the price of new rubber. For the NHPCs (or anyone) to have the rubber in stock they have to buy them in and hold them. As the tyres are different sizes front and rear this means the spares management issue is larger than for a single size. So it then requires anyone holding tyres to invest in buying them up front. With the prices for tyres being as they are companies are loathe to have that amount of money sitting on the shelves, especially in these tough financial times. So in fact the two issues are linked, albeit they manifest themselves in diffferent ways. Whilst there is nothing I can do right now to resolve the price question I can inform you that tyres are available but it will probably need you to inform your NHPC early that you will be coming in rather than treating the dealership as a drop-in centre. Not ideal I agree, but it's a start.


As a wee suggestion which i genuinely think will help us all: 
Put the communication/feedback with Nissan in a sticky, in relevant section, which is locked at the top of each section. Add to it as further information comes out. That way anybody can find info on stuff like oil temps etc? or current status of issues like this one. And there people like me won't miss that info and wonder what is happening with the talks with Nissan?

If Nissan HPC's don't want to buy in stocks of tyres (for whatever reason, but can't be for tying up capital with attrition rates and cost of capital at the moment) to sell to us as reasonable prices (and that's the point) with reasonable fitting charges, why don't Nissan allow Dunlop to supply Kwik-Fit?

Or are Nissan saying there is a problem with supply of the Dunlops in general?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

There is a supply issue in general and it is worse in the UK for some reason.


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## THEINZANTIGER (Jul 23, 2008)

Following a letter I wrote to K. Mizuno on August 12th. 2010 regarding the non-availibility of Dunlop tires, there was immidiate action and I received toaday an E-mail from Nissan that the Dunlops are available again immidiately
Here is copy of Nissan lertter:

"August 20th 2010
The tires have already been received at the NHPC of Barcelona.
The price of the tires is:
Front: 510€ + VAT(18%) = 601,80€ (per unit)
Rear: 540€ + VAT(18%) = 637,20€ (per unit)
Regards,
Xavier Clavell
Section Manager
Customer Service
Customer Quality
Nissan Iberia, S.A."

Expensive, but at least available.


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

John 

Thanks very much for the update.

Can I please ask if these questions have been put to Nissan or Dunlop directly ?

1 - Why have the price of the Dunlop's increased so much in 12 months ?

2 - Have Nissan asked Bridgestone to cease supplying the UK market with R35 tyres ? (because the lack of availability of Bridgestone's co-incides directly with the price increase of Dunlop's and the inability to source them from anywhere other than HPC's)

I am 100% convinced that Nissan have muscled Bridgestone into a position where if they want to retain the contract to supply oem tyres in Japan they withdraw from the European R35 market thus leaving a monopoly for themselves via HPC's.

I understand as chairman of the club you may be reluctant to put such awkward questions, please PM me with contact details of the person at Nissan who is dealing with this as I do feel we are being held to ransom and i'm quite happy to give Nissan a call or better still write to them.

I refuse to be shafted in such an outrageous manner, the least they could have done was buy me dinner and a few drinks before trying to bend me over !


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

Fuggles

I appreciate your update, but I do think it si important you consider the validity of the argument regarding "difficult times, capital tie-up in stock". I am putting that very politely, because it is actually completely irrelevant to the real issues at hand:

1. Why is the price of a tyre £550?
2. Why is there no stock anywhere of GTR tyres?

The answer that you have illicited from Nissan GB is entirely irrelevant to the above two points and we really need to get to the centre of this. It is entirely outrageous that GTR owners cannot actually source tyres to continue driving without going to non-runflats, or if they can get access to the tyres they need the cost is at least 175% inflated in a like-for-like comparison with other performance RFT's. 

We cannot afford to be sidetracked or fobbed off with explanations that either a) do not make sense or b) are irreleveant in any case. 

I apologise for being quite forceful in this post - although I don't need tyres probably for another 2-3 months I can see this dragging on for quite some time and I fear that a lot of owners will run into real problems with this. I am used to running expensive cars, but having been quoted £907 for the 18 month service (at around 12k miles) for an oil and tranny fluid change - breakdown is approx £300 for labour and £600 for 5 litres of Mobil 1, and 9.5 litres of liquid gold -my nostrils are filled with the aroma of bullfaeces. My 8 yeard old GT3 would cost £1-2k minimum every time it was in but it was an older car and the maintenance was justified and the parts costs were actually OK considering the majority were Motorsport parts. If on top of this I need to pay £2200 for 4 new tyres - it is not a problem of funds - just value. No matter how much or little money you have - there has to be a certain amount of value for your money - and that is not present at all in the tyre scenario currently. 

p.s. there are several tyre retailers in the UK dying to get hold of stock and are happy to put the capital in.....if Nissan can't - why the f**k could a £30 million/ year turnover outfit do it......?

This stinks.....in every way....


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Totally agree Christer

The rise in price on Dunlop's is strangely co-incidental with all other tyre distributors no longer being able to source stock, it's so very obvious that supply has been withdrawn to drive the price up, supply and demand. I'm kicking myself for not ordering a set of Dunlops from Kwik Fit when they quoted me £1400 fitted, I didn't need tyres at the time but it would have been a wise investment. Never before have I owned a car where it was considered a good move to buy a set of tyres well in advance of actually needing them.

It is becoming obvious that Fuggles is reluctant to give them a shot between the eyes due to the relationship the club have with Nissan, although I am still at a total loss to see how that relationship benefits R35 owners.

John that is what I consider a fair observation not a dig before you go all defensive on me again. This issue is not going to go away so I would urge you to just let them have it straight, they are taking the piss whichever way it's dressed up.

I would also be interested to know if, in your discussions, the matter of the sheer volume of R35 owners using Litchfield's has been mentioned, are Nissan not concerned about the level of business the HPC's are losing on servicing ?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

imattersuk said:


> Can I please ask if these questions have been put to Nissan or Dunlop directly ?
> 1 - Why have the price of the Dunlop's increased so much in 12 months ?
> 2 - Have Nissan asked Bridgestone to cease supplying the UK market with R35 tyres ? (because the lack of availability of Bridgestone's co-incides directly with the price increase of Dunlop's and the inability to source them from anywhere other than HPC's)


These questions have been put to Nissan but not Dunlop. I have no decent levels with the tyre company so cannot ask. However we have some new people coming on board who may be able to make progress in this area. As regards question 2 their response was an unequivocal "no"



imattersuk said:


> I understand as chairman of the club you may be reluctant to put such awkward questions, please PM me with contact details of the person at Nissan who is dealing with this as I do feel we are being held to ransom and i'm quite happy to give Nissan a call or better still write to them.


Haha! Clearly you don't know me!  As a respresentative of the Club I have no issue with asking questions and pursuing things to a positive conclusion. I have never - in business, personal or club life, shied away from asking difficult questions or challenging any answers.  If there is a lack of progress it's certainly not for the reason you suggest!
As regards your last point that would require a breach of the Data Protection Act and I am not prepared to do that and the Club will not permit it


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

christer said:


> I appreciate your update, but I do think it si important you consider the validity of the argument regarding "difficult times, capital tie-up in stock". I am putting that very politely, because it is actually completely irrelevant to the real issues at hand


Your first point has been responded to previously. Companies will not invest unless they have to right now and investing in sets of tyres to potentially sit on the shelf is an issue each DP is wrestling with. It's all about 'spares management'. Something I can discuss as it is something I consult on professionally, albeit on a slightly bigger scale!



christer said:


> 1. Why is the price of a tyre £550?
> 2. Why is there no stock anywhere of GTR tyres?


See my previous response about shipping, limited demand and the fact that the HPCs have to work to a standard pricing structure. Something that Nissan have agreed after a previous converstaion with me, to look into. As for tyres there are tyres in stock across Europe but not necessarily as fluid a process as it should be and perhaps not as many.





christer said:


> The answer that you have illicited from Nissan GB is entirely irrelevant to the above two points


Who said it was GB? Sorry it's not relevent enough for you, I wont bother trying to help next time!



christer said:


> We cannot afford to be sidetracked or fobbed off with explanations that either a) do not make sense or b) are irreleveant in any case.


The don't bother reading my comments, you can always ignore them.


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> As regards your last point that would require a breach of the Data Protection Act and I am not prepared to do that and the Club will not permit it


How is it a breach of the data protection act ? Is your contact at Nissan a club member then ?

I'm not asking for confidential details of any members just a name at Nissan.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

imattersuk said:


> It is becoming obvious that Fuggles is reluctant to give them a shot between the eyes due to the relationship the club have with Nissan, although I am still at a total loss to see how that relationship benefits R35 owners.
> 
> John that is what I consider a fair observation not a dig before you go all defensive on me again. This issue is not going to go away so I would urge you to just let them have it straight, they are taking the piss whichever way it's dressed up.
> 
> I would also be interested to know if, in your discussions, the matter of the sheer volume of R35 owners using Litchfield's has been mentioned, are Nissan not concerned about the level of business the HPC's are losing on servicing ?


I am not 'reluctant' in any way I can assure you. I have spent hours (no exaggeration) on the phone and working through emails with people from across Nissan. In fact in one conversation this week i pointed out how harmful it was to the GTROC that nothing was happening quick enough. I am on exceptional terms with people at Nissan, and not just the UK. Once you have established a relationship that works that well it is perfectly acceptable to be direct and to the point and not to hide behind anything. Believe me there are many members of Nissan who will confirm this!

I agree this issue will not go away in the short term but it is being addressed. Nissan as a company has a policy of not responding so it is left to me to stand alone in the firing line. 

Several people have voluntered their services and I have spoken to some already at length. They are now aware of the situation and will, I am sure, vouch for the amount of progress that has been made, if only because I have briefed them. A lot of the information is confidential and is a demonstration of how much Nissan trust the GTROC that they will disclose key facts, but require us to retain their confidence. By understanding this we can work with them but also challenge them. The new people taking on this role will, I am sure, do a far better job than me!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

imattersuk said:


> How is it a breach of the data protection act ? Is your contact at Nissan a club member then ?


No but all the details are stored on the Club's database. The new people taking on this role will have direct access to that database as elected/appointed officers of the club and will be progressing this for all GTROC members


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Fuggles

We are going round in circles here, if the price for a set of Dunlops was more reasonable at say £1400 then there would be no issue for HPC's to have stock on the shelf, they would sell a steady amount of tyres. As for the different sizes on front and rear another crock of crap, 95% of GTR tyre sales are for a complete set of 4 with the odd one sold when someone has an unrepairable puncture.

As a business owner who has to hold stock myself and having previously worked in the motor trade during the late 80's recession that's all bollards and you know it. The margin they are making on these tyres more than compensates for holding some stock, they are making over £800 more on a set than Kwik Fit.

I'm beginning to think your real name is Carlos and not John


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I'm glad you put a smiley at the end of that! 

Firstly this is not a role I particularly wanted but the previous owner of the seat decided he is not going to do it any more. So, as Chairman, it falls to me to fill the gap. I have enough to do outside the Club and within the Club I have more than enough to do. So the recent influx of volunteers is very welcome even if it would have been nice to happen sooner 

I hear what you're saying about spares management but I am only passing on the breif I have been given by Nissan (although not by Carlos himself )

I guess if you don't like the music, you sack the organ player. The trouble is I am only playing the music given to me by Nissan.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> No but all the details are stored on the Club's database. The new people taking on this role will have direct access to that database as elected/appointed officers of the club and will be progressing this for all GTROC members


Since you're using DPA 98 to say that you can't give the details of your contact (which you can if given permission by the contact), I take you've followed all the ICO guidelines for the new elected/appointed officers?


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I'm glad you put a smiley at the end of that!
> 
> Firstly this is not a role I particularly wanted but the previous owner of the seat decided he is not going to do it any more. So, as Chairman, it falls to me to fill the gap. I have enough to do outside the Club and within the Club I have more than enough to do. So the recent influx of volunteers is very welcome even if it would have been nice to happen sooner
> 
> ...


John that's all very clear. Which is why i think you've got to be applauded for not only the work you've done/do, but also getting someone else fight the fight for us R35 owners. :thumbsup:

And i'll make it clear, FWIW (very little i know) as chairman of GTROC you do a great job imho, so you can play with your organ as much as you like


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

misters3 said:


> Since you're using DPA 98 to say that you can't give the details of your contact (which you can if given permission by the contact), I take you've followed all the ICO guidelines for the new elected/appointed officers?


If only Nissan was as accomodating as the Information Commission!


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

cleethorpes said:


> It's a bloody Owners Club....It's to get info, meet other owners, go to events, get news, find parts etc... etc etc... some people expect the damn earth.. get real.. irritating
> 
> I think taking your frustrations out on the admin of the owners club is not the thing to do.


Well said! :clap:

As far as I read the club has done all it can to make the Nissan GT-R team clearly aware of the situation here in the UK/EUROPE and the annoyance of the owners :thumbsup:

In the meantime, all we can do is vote with our feet and buy from alternate suppliers or use equivalent spec. tyres (albeit non-RFTs) at more realistic non-monopoly prices :shy: :squintdan


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I guess if you don't like the music, you sack the organ player. The trouble is I am only playing the music given to me by Nissan.


I wouldn't suggest for one second you are an organ fiddler, however I think there's a fair chance that Nissan HQ has a very large orchestra


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> If only Nissan was as accomodating as the Information Commission!


Fair enough 

So why do you take so much flak for Nissan being crap? Just tell it like it is


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

You think I need this shit? It's up to those giving me this flak to stop. I am passing what I am allowed or know, nothing more nothing less. I guess the easiest way would be to just not post anything and let people take up some other recreational anger management instead!


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

Fuggles said:


> Your first point has been responded to previously. Companies will not invest unless they have to right now and investing in sets of tyres to potentially sit on the shelf is an issue each DP is wrestling with. It's all about 'spares management'. Something I can discuss as it is something I consult on professionally, albeit on a slightly bigger scale!
> 
> 
> See my previous response about shipping, limited demand and the fact that the HPCs have to work to a standard pricing structure. Something that Nissan have agreed after a previous converstaion with me, to look into. As for tyres there are tyres in stock across Europe but not necessarily as fluid a process as it should be and perhaps not as many.
> ...


I wish you would stop taking this personally, as the comments are not directed at you per se, but rather at what you have been told by Nissan (GB, Europe or wherever they are). It is not helpful to take such a personal and defensive stance. My views expressed above are worded strongly but are meant to focus on the challenges at hand and also to challenge what you have been told - if in my opinion there is reason to do so to help progress. For example, your comment about "limited demand" should not increase but DECREASE prices - that is just basic economics from 5th form at prep school

So for the record, many thanks for your efforts - it really is appreciated and I hope that you take any future comments from me as constructive, albeit slightly direct....


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Limited demand creates a slow down in supply for any supply chain to be optimised. Currently the supply chain is running sub-optimally because of the financial challenges. This has nothing to do with price. As i said "HPCs have to work to a standard pricing structure", this is about price. If you want to discuss supply chain optimisation we can, and can even discuss Fourier, MLR, Holt-Winters, Croston, Gaves and even Lewondowski.


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## THEINZANTIGER (Jul 23, 2008)

imattersuk said:


> How is it a breach of the data protection act ? Is your contact at Nissan a club member then ?
> 
> I'm not asking for confidential details of any members just a name at Nissan.


you will only get action at Nissan if you write to Japan attn. K. Mizuno, copy to Nissan Europe, Attn S. Thomas, C. Goshn, J. Villa and S. Croft.


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## THEINZANTIGER (Jul 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Limited demand creates a slow down in supply for any supply chain to be optimised. Currently the supply chain is running sub-optimally because of the financial challenges. This has nothing to do with price. As i said "HPCs have to work to a standard pricing structure", this is about price. If you want to discuss supply chain optimisation we can, and can even discuss Fourier, MLR, Holt-Winters, Croston, Gaves and even Lewondowski.


The demand for Dunlops has been constant for many month. However a number of NHPC's told me that they can not get Dunlop tyres from their supplier. Was told that they will not be available till late October at the earliest.
Then I wrote an e-mail to K. Mizuno and co. and to my great surprise the Dunlop tyres were available at the NHPC 5 days later and at a price 40% lower than what they quoted 9 month ago. I conclude- only pressure on Japan senior Management will get action!!!!!! This is where the Club could and should help!


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

THEINZANTIGER said:


> you will only get action at Nissan if you write to Japan attn. K. Mizuno, copy to Nissan Europe, Attn S. Thomas, C. Goshn, J. Villa and S. Croft.


Thank you :thumbsup: Now where was that planned group letter


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

Hi Fuggles

I think you clearly know more about supply-chain optimisation than me, or you use google more before you post () - either way I think I would also call the supply chain "slowdown" irrelevant to why they are charging £550 per tyre. Furthermore, I would also seriously question the "financial challenges" argument because this to me does not ring true. There are tyre suppliers all over UK crying out for Dunlops, and they have far less money and far more challenges than Nissan - especially as they actually operate in a competitive environment (tyre-wise). 

By the way I had heard of Holt-Winters but had to google the rest of the ream of names you have quoted. "Seasonal time series data" and "exponential smoothing" - my, my are you trying to hand me a highbrow bashing dear boy? I should add that I am a struggling empiricist (in as much as this goes against the grain of humans in general) so I tend to concentrate and accept the things I do not know, rather than blinding people with (again) a seemingly irrelevant display of knowledge to the problems in hand. I suggest you read "The Black Swan" by NNT if you haven't already so that you are not blinded further by what you know, or think you know

i.e. if you think Nissan charging £550 per tyre has to do with the supply chain needing optimisation then I fear that Holt-Winters is not going to help you

I would just like to point out yet again - I am not here to score points against you or anyone else - I am focussing on trying to debate and solving a problem. If you would like to display your knowledge instead, perhaps we should start a new thread for that?

Thank you once again for your efforts, that is all


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

This is getting better than University Challenge:clap::clap:


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Can someone please tell us when they last purchased Dunlops from Kwik Fit or another supplier and the price, trying to establish a timeline here, I think it was about easter time someone paid about £1400 ?

If we are going to compose this group letter we need to get our facts right.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

can i assume before you people all DEMAND Fuggles do something, that you have ALL contacted and put pressure on your relevant HPC or dealer, and made enough of a stink on thier doorstep that this issue is one that they recognise and are taking seriously?

or have you just picked up the phone, asked for a price, thought it unacceptable and vented on the forum.

consider what you would be doing now should the GTROC not exist. What other course of actions would you be willing to take?

mook


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## THEINZANTIGER (Jul 23, 2008)

Mookistar said:


> can i assume before you people all DEMAND Fuggles do something, that you have ALL contacted and put pressure on your relevant HPC or dealer, and made enough of a stink on thier doorstep that this issue is one that they recognise and are taking seriously?
> 
> or have you just picked up the phone, asked for a price, thought it unacceptable and vented on the forum.
> 
> ...


Here is copy of the letter that resulted in immidiate action to get Dunlop tyres.
Please excuse the cap letters but it is a copy of the actual e-mail as it was sent.
"
From: HAB 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 6:39 PM
To: K.MIZUNO
Subject: NO DUNLOP TIRES AVAILABLE !!!!!!!


DEAR MR. MIZUNO:
YOUR HELP IS REQUIRED AGAIN AND WOULD ALSO BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
WHEN I ORDERED THE R35 GT-R, I ORIGINALLY WANTED BRIDGESTONE TIRES.
HOWEVER IT WAS MADE VERY CLEAR TO ME BY NISSAN ESPANA AND NISSAN EUROPE
THAT THE HIGHLY RECOMMENDED TIRE CHOICE IS DUNLOP AND THAT DUE TO THIS
I WAS NOT GIVEN A CHOICE AND HAD TO TAKE MY GT-R WITH DUNLOP TIRES.
AS IT TURNED OUT NISSAN'S RECOMMENDATION WAS VERY MUCH CORRECT WHICH HAS BEEN CONFIRMED 
BY MANY GT-R OWNERS WHO HAVE TRIED BOTH BRIDGESTONE AND DUNLOP TIRES.
THE DUNLOP TIRES ARE THE BETTER PERFORMING TIRE FOR THE GT-R.
HERE IS THE PROBLEM: I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET REPLACEMENT DUNLOP TIRES FOR MY GT-R SINCE JULY 8TH 2010
TO BE AVAILABLE FOR MY 12 MONTH SERVICE SCHEDULED FOR SEPTEMBER 2010. THE BARCELONA NHPC BARCELONA
ADVISES TODAY THAT THEY CAN NOT GET THE DUNLOP TIRES EVEN WITH THE LONG LEAD TIME I GAVE THEM.
THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.
IN ADDITION, DUE TO WORN OUT TIRES FROM THIS WEEKS DRIVING, I NEEDED A SET OF NEW DUNLOP TIRES IMMEDIATELY.
AS YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE AND THE DEALER AGAIN ADVISED OF THIS ACCORDINGLY.

IN APRIL OF THIS YEAR I HAVE INFORMED NISSAN EUROPE AND NISSAN SPAIN OF AN UPCOMING 14 DAY TRIP STARTING MID SEPTEMBER TO GERMANY AND BELGIUM
FOR THE PURPOSE OF SOME HIGH SPEED DRIVING OF MY GT-R AND ALSO THE GT-R'S OF A NUMBER OF MY FRIENDS FROM VARIOUS COUNTRIES 
FROM EUROPE. I FURTHER INFORMED NISSAN IN APRIL 2010 THAT I WILL NEED A SET OF DUNLOP TIRES FOR THIS TRIP.
NOW I SIT HERE WITH NO TIRES AND I AM FORCED TO BOROUGH A SPARE SET FROM ONE OF MY FRIENDS.
AGAIN THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS AND NOT BECOMING TO THE IMAGE OF THE GT-R OR NISSAN.

IN SUMMARY, I SEEK YOUR HELP TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AND UNMISTAKABLY ENCOURAGE NISSAN SPAIN
TO MAINTAIN A PROPER LEVEL OF INVENTORY FOR PARTS, SUCH AS TIRES, IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT
THE GT-R STAYS MOBILE AND WILL NOT ROT IN MY GARAGE BECAUSE NISSAN CAN NOT SUPPLY THE DUNLOP
TIRES OR OTHER REQUIRED PARTS.
FURTHER, I NEED, NOT LATER THAN SEPTEMBER 17. 2010, AT THE BARCELONA DEALERSHIP, AT LEAST TWO SETS OF DUNLOP TIRES.
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP IN THIS MATTER
AND I REMAIN,
WITH BEST REGARDS
HAB


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

I have carried out some "initial posturing" towards the 2 HPC's near me with regards to tyres - this was in addition to questioning the sanity of whoever decided to charge £600 for 5 litres of Mobil 1 oil, 3 litres of differential fluid and 9.5 litres of gearbox fluid required for the 18 month service. I can ensure you that I will do more than that nearer the time, including seriously considering taking my car out of the network.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

christer said:


> I think you clearly know more about supply-chain optimisation than me


I suspect so, and I most sincerely hope so, otherwise I will have a lot of very angry customers to deal with


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Mookistar said:


> can i assume before you people all DEMAND Fuggles do something, that you have ALL contacted and put pressure on your relevant HPC or dealer, and made enough of a stink on thier doorstep that this issue is one that they recognise and are taking seriously?
> 
> or have you just picked up the phone, asked for a price, thought it unacceptable and vented on the forum.
> 
> ...


Good point, well made! 

I shall enquire within this avo at my local friendly HPC... although I did buy some Bridgies from them in May when stocks dried up everywhere else... and then they ran out too ... last set or so, so I was told.

TBH, I always thought the point of the high prices was to make a nice return for the HPCs... I think everyone's just testing what the market will bear; given the HPC seems to be a local sole-supplier of R35 RFTs with a general price cartel nationwide between HPCs, the test is peeps willingness to buy other brands... course peeps are loathed to give up on the dunnies as they are defo the best dry weather tyres out there by some margin, imho.

... I'm convinced the best course of action for now is to make good use of the Traders on the register! :thumbsup:


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## THEINZANTIGER (Jul 23, 2008)

Dunlop tyre prices quote from my NHPC in February this year in EURO:
front 642.60 + VAT
rear 693.60 + IVA

Dunlop tyre prices quoted today from Nissan in EURO:
front 510.-- + VAT
rear 540.-- + VAT

Price reductions normally do not indicate a product supply shortage!!


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

I wonder if money markets/non-hedging make for a slice of the big price wobbles?


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Mookistar said:


> can i assume before you people all DEMAND Fuggles do something, that you have ALL contacted and put pressure on your relevant HPC or dealer, and made enough of a stink on thier doorstep that this issue is one that they recognise and are taking seriously?
> 
> or have you just picked up the phone, asked for a price, thought it unacceptable and vented on the forum.
> 
> ...


Mook, i understand what you're saying. And you're right.

That's why i secured my 6 month service at £107 by asking my HPC. (another mention for any noobs! )

But in some cases, like this one, there is a weight in numbers. Hence being on a forum. eg I've got no response on the black paint issue, despite knowing of a few cars which have been rejected and another being sold back because of the issue. On my own i'm not going to get any response on the issue. I ask for it be raised by GTROC on my behalf and never read any response from Nissan either.

I think the mistake some people are making is that if they members of GTROC they are thinking that the Owners Club will be able to get better answers quicker - but from reading Guy's post earlier in this thread, that's not the case. So it's not a demand as such, it's just members mistakenly asking too much of the owners club. 

I'd agree with you in that we all need to write letters individually - but to Nissan directly.


----------



## THEINZANTIGER (Jul 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I am not 'reluctant' in any way I can assure you. I have spent hours (no exaggeration) on the phone and working through emails with people from across Nissan. In fact in one conversation this week i pointed out how harmful it was to the GTROC that nothing was happening quick enough. I am on exceptional terms with people at Nissan, and not just the UK. Once you have established a relationship that works that well it is perfectly acceptable to be direct and to the point and not to hide behind anything. Believe me there are many members of Nissan who will confirm this!
> 
> I agree this issue will not go away in the short term but it is being addressed. Nissan as a company has a policy of not responding so it is left to me to stand alone in the firing line.
> 
> Several people have voluntered their services and I have spoken to some already at length. They are now aware of the situation and will, I am sure, vouch for the amount of progress that has been made, if only because I have briefed them. A lot of the information is confidential and is a demonstration of how much Nissan trust the GTROC that they will disclose key facts, but require us to retain their confidence. By understanding this we can work with them but also challenge them. The new people taking on this role will, I am sure, do a far better job than me!


Mr. Fuggles:
you state
"Nissan as a company has a policy of not responding so it is left to me to stand alone in the firing line."
Based on my experience this is not correct at all. Dealing with the right people at Nissan results normally in quick action and reply. Please let us know who you told about this Nissan policy or what makes you conclude 
that such a policy exists at Nissan???? 
No need to stand alone in the firing line -- I offered you my help and still wait for your acceptance. I know you are very sensitive so please let me make it very clear that this is not any attack on your person or any critisism on all of the work you do for the Club, quite on the contrary!


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Heinz,if you try to help a group like we wanted to do in the german forum......its important to not only help yourself like you did........and forget about the rest

In the moment Nissan offered help to you and your problems.....you forgot about problems from other people....why not talk to J.Villa again and tell him your problems....he will maybe offer you a set of tyres to keep you quiet again :nervous:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

THEINZANTIGER said:


> Please let us know who you told about this Nissan policy or what makes you conclude that such a policy exists at Nissan????


I wont say who said what but it includes various Directors, Heads of Division, Senior Marketing Execs in Europe, in NMGB and in the Alliance in the UK and overseas.



THEINZANTIGER said:


> No need to stand alone in the firing line -- I offered you my help and still wait for your acceptance.


I called all those I could yesterday for a chat as it is only fair to discuss requirements and the roles person to person rather than by email/PM. For some reason I neglected to put you on my list, so my apologies for that. Can you PM me your contact number and I will call you some time in the next five days. Thank you


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Mookistar said:


> can i assume before you people all DEMAND Fuggles do something, that you have ALL contacted and put pressure on your relevant HPC or dealer, and made enough of a stink on thier doorstep that this issue is one that they recognise and are taking seriously?
> 
> or have you just picked up the phone, asked for a price, thought it unacceptable and vented on the forum.
> 
> ...


We haven't been demanding we had to ask several times if the club could take up the various issues with Nissan and it's only been the last 48 hours we have had a more detailed response from Fuggles, hence people assuming ( and me being one of them) that the club were unwilling to help in this matter. Communication is key to everything and had we been informed earlier what steps had been taken maybe things would have been a bit calmer on this thread ?

As for what would we do if the club didn't exist well for starters we wouldn't be spending £45 a year  and I think most of us have already let our local dealers know what we think about tyre prices which have risen over 50% since we took delivery of the car.

I have stated before I would gladly pay more for formal representation from the club on matters such as these, expertise comes at a cost in all walks of life and if the club can get things done then i'll pay a higher membership fee, however if they can't exert any influence then I won't be renewing.

If I still had the 33 then i'd see far more of a benefit ie. trackdays etc. but most 35 owners are scared stiff to track the thing in case we end up with a repair bill for 8k+ and an exploded bonnet not to mention cost of brakes and tyres, did I say tyres ? how stupid of me I forgot we can't even get them, at any price !

If the 35 was more viable to track at reasonable cost don't you think it would be to the clubs advantage with far more members participating in trackdays ? We didn't buy a car with this performance to drive around on public roads all the time, I feel a bit conned to be honest.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

imattersuk said:


> We haven't been demanding we had to ask several times if the club could take up the various issues with Nissan and it's only been the last 48 hours we have had a more detailed response from Fuggles, hence people assuming ( and me being one of them) that the club were unwilling to help in this matter. Communication is key to everything and had we been informed earlier what steps had been taken maybe things would have been a bit calmer on this thread ?
> 
> As for what would we do if the club didn't exist well for starters we wouldn't be spending £45 a year  and I think most of us have already let our local dealers know what we think about tyre prices which have risen over 50% since we took delivery of the car.
> 
> ...



Thats not what I asked. Wether you feel the club benefits you, and what you'd be doing in its absence are different matters. If you don't renew becasue you don't do track days etc, thats cool, but to expect formal representation from a volunteer force against the might of a multi-national coprporation is short sighted. If the GTROC didn't exist, how would you hope to resolve this matter on your own?

The suggestion that many voices is better than one is good, and the GTROC is trying to help as much as possible in that respect, BUT, those many voices are being channelled through one person, and therefore Nissan can't hear you.

I Would suggest every single R35 owner phones thier HPC and asks for a price and availabilty, and upon recieving the bad news ask to speak to the manager and in turn ask to speak the UK head office.

many voices

mook


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## Paul_G (Apr 4, 2008)

THEINZANTIGER said:


> Dunlop tyre prices quote from my NHPC in February this year in EURO:
> front 642.60 + VAT
> rear 693.60 + IVA
> 
> ...


Those prices are still high? At 18% VAT and a 1.2 euro to £ exchange rate that is £2065 for a set of tyres. (Assuming my maths is correct of course :nervous Still better than what you paid before though, but still a hard sell to the wife on top of the HPC annual service charge...


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

Mookistar said:


> Thats not what I asked. Wether you feel the club benefits you, and what you'd be doing in its absence are different matters. If you don't renew becasue you don't do track days etc, thats cool, but to expect formal representation from a volunteer force against the might of a multi-national coprporation is short sighted. If the GTROC didn't exist, how would you hope to resolve this matter on your own?
> 
> The suggestion that many voices is better than one is good, and the GTROC is trying to help as much as possible in that respect, BUT, those many voices are being channelled through one person, and therefore Nissan can't hear you.
> 
> ...


very good point Mook !

it seems the ' new crowd ' of 35 owners, who pay the same subscription as the ' old crowd ' have very high expectations of the membership package.

I know I sound like a broken record.

If it is the case that people are just ranting on here, thats not really going to help. As mook stated..call them.. talk to someone...then someone higher..etc etc.. If they get 200 odd complaints in a few days in respect of tyres they will have to listen eventually.

If I were in the unfortunate situation you guys are in I'd be looking at some kind of visual protest at the uk headquarters... local papers...national press.... and I don't mean a dirty protest... more a convoy parked at the gates..causing an awful ruckus.. The local paper would surely turn out for a decent number of shiney motors..


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

cleethorpes said:


> very good point Mook !
> 
> it seems the ' new crowd ' of 35 owners, who pay the same subscription as the ' old crowd ' have very high expectations of the membership package.
> 
> ...


As for the "new crowd" i've been a skyline owner for many years before getting the 35 and yes you do sound like a broken record and as a non 35 owner I don't really care what you think.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

I don't blame the 35 owners, now do I feel they as a collective share one mentality. What i see is a group of people who have spent good money on a car, left baffled by warranty policy, disturbed by concierge damage and now stumped by a lack of tyre supply. If the GTR wasn't the amazing car it is, and instead a run of the mill £50k saloon, these problems would still be unacceptable.

I in now way blame them for turning to the GTROC for help, but feel the issue is bigger than a collection of enthusiasts and reckon the power of thier wallets is likely to be greater than the power of a "bunch of geeks on a forum"

my own words

mook


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Mookistar said:


> I in now way blame them for turning to the GTROC for help, but feel the issue is bigger than a collection of enthusiasts and reckon the power of thier wallets is likely to be greater than the power of a "bunch of geeks on a forum"
> 
> my own words
> 
> mook


If GTROC can't help as you say, how about the idea that someone (with better english skills than me) draft a letter in a new thread (made a sticky please) which we all copy and paste and send as individuals?
Instead of adding our names to a "Who owns a R35" thread which serves no purpose, lets actually use gtr.co.uk for this purpose. It's how e90post.com and audi-sport.net work. There is no owners club aspect to them. They are just places where people with similar cars gather and share experiences both positive and negative and work together to resolve the negatives. 

Who's in? :thumbsup:

Just me?:bawling:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

The GTROC can help and is helping. The fact we have not had a result or a significant breakthrough does not mean progress is not being made. Believe me some VERY senior people at Nissan in more than just the UK are very aware of this and the size of the issue. I have no issue with anyone doing something more direct personally nor do I see the Club wanting to stop that, but please do not suggest that we can't help!


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

imattersuk said:


> As for the "new crowd" i've been a skyline owner for many years before getting the 35 and yes you do sound like a broken record and as a non 35 owner I don't really care what you think.


Clearly then you are not one of the ' new crowd ' then are you? and I couldn't give a hoot about your opinion, so we have things in common.. want to be mates?


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

misters3 said:


> If GTROC can't help as you say, how about the idea that someone (with better english skills than me) draft a letter in a new thread (made a sticky please) which we all copy and paste and send as individuals?
> Instead of adding our names to a "Who owns a R35" thread which serves no purpose, lets actually use gtr.co.uk for this purpose. It's how e90post.com and audi-sport.net work. There is no owners club aspect to them. They are just places where people with similar cars gather and share experiences both positive and negative and work together to resolve the negatives.
> 
> Who's in? :thumbsup:
> ...


I think this could be a good idea, but I think it becomes impersonal and less effective if a standard wording is used. A common argument obviously.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

cleethorpes said:


> I think this could be a good idea, but I think it becomes impersonal and less effective if a standard wording is used. A common argument obviously.


Okay that would work too....so do bullet points and then i'll put it in to my Scottish English - that'll confuse them


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

misters3 said:


> Okay that would work too....so do bullet points and then i'll put it in to my Scottish English - that'll confuse them


Done it for you:


Original:


THEINZANTIGER said:


> DEAR MR. MIZUNO:
> YOUR HELP IS REQUIRED AGAIN AND WOULD ALSO BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
> WHEN I ORDERED THE R35 GT-R, I ORIGINALLY WANTED BRIDGESTONE TIRES.
> HOWEVER IT WAS MADE VERY CLEAR TO ME BY NISSAN ESPANA AND NISSAN EUROPE THAT THE HIGHLY RECOMMENDED TIRE CHOICE IS DUNLOP AND THAT DUE TO THIS I WAS NOT GIVEN A CHOICE AND HAD TO TAKE MY GT-R WITH DUNLOP TIRES.
> ...


and here's a rough translation. Hope you like it 

Hey you!

I need ya help with summat

When I bought ma bonnie car I wanted Bridgies ta run it on. But, it soon became clear that yous fellas wanted us ta use Dunnies. So I had nae choice but to tak it. Now, fella, it seems ta me that it was the best idea. You’re a canny lad, I’ll gi ya that.

Now, we have a wee problem. I have tried to get some new tyres for ma wee chariot since the fifth anniversary of the first G8 – held here in Gleneagles. You should come. You’re a Jappy chappy, you’d love the golf here. So this rubber for ma wheelies is needed for my wee car’s first birthday and I cannae get em. Put plainly, this is just shite!

So, I’m having to wander roound on auld tyres and half scaring myself to shite or leave the car at home and blether. Its nay good fella, it’s as good as deid.

Earlier this year I told yous about a wee journey and had to plan fer it. And so far nuthin. Ya treatin me like a neap and I canna deal with it. The GTROC are saying their getting a blathering from yous so I have nae choice but to write a letter.

We will be round in the morning for a wee word!


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

ROFL :chuckle:

I just gotta send that, just for the laffs! :clap:


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## Bajie (Dec 13, 2001)

PMSL

But isn't a dunnie an australian toilet !?!


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Done it for you:
> 
> 
> Original:
> ...


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Btw,popped in to Middlehursts today and they confirm they have no probs with supply at the mo (sounds like they plan ahead!):


Dunnies: 
What?	excl. VAT	incl. VAT
Front (pair)	1096.76	1288.69
Rears (pair)	1155.74	1357.99
Total	2252.5	2646.69

Bridgies: 
What?	excl. VAT	incl. VAT
Front (pair)	890.66	1046.53
Rears (pair)	951.76	1118.32
Total	1842.42	2164.84

Prices are fully fitted.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Aerodramatics said:


> Btw,popped in to Middlehursts today and they confirm they have no probs with supply at the mo (sounds like they plan ahead!):
> 
> 
> Dunnies:
> ...


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

I can't believe HPCs are still charging £2650 for a set of Dunlops...

The Bridgestone markup is £1200 over kwik fit. I understand the need to make a profit but this is unacceptable imo.


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## jamesalgar1976 (Aug 7, 2010)

Aerodramatics said:


> Btw,popped in to Middlehursts today and they confirm they have no probs with supply at the mo (sounds like they plan ahead!):
> 
> 
> Dunnies:
> ...


:chairshot £2700 for tyres!!! What the ???. Think I wont buy one of these beasts after all. This is robbery just plain robbery


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Mookistar said:


> Thats not what I asked. Wether you feel the club benefits you, and what you'd be doing in its absence are different matters. If you don't renew becasue you don't do track days etc, thats cool, but to expect formal representation from a volunteer force against the might of a multi-national coprporation is short sighted. If the GTROC didn't exist, how would you hope to resolve this matter on your own?
> 
> The suggestion that many voices is better than one is good, and the GTROC is trying to help as much as possible in that respect, BUT, those many voices are being channelled through one person, and therefore Nissan can't hear you.
> 
> ...


job done awaiting good news


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Fuggles said:


> Done it for you:
> 
> 
> Original:
> ...



Like it lots fug's gonna send it tha morra:thumbsup:


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## bobd (Mar 25, 2008)

jamesalgar1976 said:


> :chairshot £2700 for tyres!!! What the ???. Think I wont buy one of these beasts after all. This is robbery just plain robbery


 John and all the forum keep trying its the only way if you want to keep your missiles and good luck


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## THEINZANTIGER (Jul 23, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Done it for you:
> 
> 
> Original:
> ...


Mr. Fuggles:
This is fantastic. First time I see you have a great sense of humor.
Well done and thanks for the chuckle!!


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

paul__k said:


> I can't believe HPCs are still charging £2650 for a set of Dunlops...
> 
> The Bridgestone markup is £1200 over kwik fit. I understand the need to make a profit but this is unacceptable imo.


Paul,

to be fair, I might be doing 'Hursts a dis-service, as I added VAT to the prices provided to me :chairshot

The reason being I'd actually gone in for a disc inspection and some disc/pad quotes which were all +VAT (I dunno why garages still present prices this way to consumers - all prices to consumers are supposed to be inclusive of VAT - other that they think the false "lower" price is somehow more palatable or can be mistaken for a more competitive price cf. other quotes) :runaway:

However, maybe this price was inclusive? If so:

Dunnies: 
incl. VAT??/ (see post #253)	
Front (pair)	1096.76	
Rears (pair)	1155.74	
Total	2252.5	

Bridgies: 
incl. VAT??/ (see post #253)	
Front (pair)	890.66	
Rears (pair)	951.76	
Total	1842.42

Fully fitted. They didn't actually state +VAT against these prices, written down on a separate post-it style note for me.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Well MH want £1800 for fitting 4 Bridgies.

Kwik Fit want £1050 for the very same.


Nobody can justify that sort of mark up.


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## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

Unless they are paying more


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

THEINZANTIGER said:


> Mr. Fuggles:
> This is fantastic. First time I see you have a great sense of humor.
> Well done and thanks for the chuckle!!


I'm just waiting for Rhodri to provide the Welsh version


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

..., Boyo! (not being Welsh - soz Rohdri, you are but a select few!) :bowdown1:


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## Andiroo (Aug 13, 2002)

Fuggles said:


> I'm just waiting for Rhodri to provide the Welsh version


Think this tranlation into Welsh is good. Got Tom Jones next to me watching re-runs of Corrie, on his eleventh bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale, and it gets:thumbsup: 

Hey 'ch! 

Fi angen ya chyfnertha ag summat.

When Brynais ma bonnie car Fi wanted Bridgies ta hidla 'i acha. Namyn , 'i 'n ebrwydd became amlyma a yous fellas wanted ni ta arfer Dunnies. Fel Cawn nae ddewis namyn at tak 'i. Awron fella , hymddangosa ta 'm a bu 'r enilla ddrychfeddwl. 'ch re a canny bachgennyn , fi ll gi ya a. 

Now , cawn a wee broblem. Brofais at ca rhyw 'n grai cantau achos ma wee cerbyd er 'r 'n bumed ben-blwydd chan 'r 'n flaen – afaeledig 'ma i mewn Gleneagles. Ddylasech d. 'ch re a Jappy chappy , 'ch d cara 'r golf 'ma. Fel hon rwber achos ma wheelies ydy needed achos 'm wee car s 'n flaen ben-blwydd a Fi cannae ca em. Ddod 'n amlwg , dyma jyst shite!

Fel , fi m yn cael at chrwydra roound acha auld cantau a hanner yn rhusio myfi at shite ai ad 'r car gartref a blether. 'i nay da fella , 'i s 'n gystal fel deid. 

Earlier eleni Ddeudais yous am a wee deithio a had at arfaetha fer 'i. A fel 'n bell nuthin. Ya treatin 'm cara a neap a Fi canna ymdrin 'i. 'r GTROC ydy yn deud 'n hwy yn cael a yn rwdlan chan yous fel Ca nae ddewis namyn at dorri llythyr. 

We ewyllysia bod chwmpasa i mewn 'r bore achos a wee eiria!

HTH


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Jappy Chappy being international lingua franca :chuckle:


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## rblvjenkins (Mar 8, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> I'm just waiting for Rhodri to provide the Welsh version


_Here it is. Officially received and approved by the Welsh Assembly._

Mizuno-bach – Arrigh butt?

Giss a hand with something will you now?

I gone and bought one of you Nissan GTRs. There’s me wannin to run Bridgestones, but you boys said Dunlops were best. To be fair, when I got them the Dunlops were pretty tidy. Fairplay - you boys know what you’re doing a bit. 

So I needs some more, doesn’t I? I need to do a bit of showing off at the Tom and Catherine Zeta Jones/Anthony Hopkins and Richard Burton memorial gig in Caaardiff. All the boys will be there, and not just that I’m taking Bonnie Tyler up from Swansea aren’t I!? Karaoke in the evening too – you Jappy Chappies would love that, innit? Now look you, I need some rubber, don’t I? And I can’t get it, can I? That’s just shite, innit?

So, do you want me doughnutting down on the brillo pads or what? Let’s be fair, just get me some rubber, sharpish. 

Not only that, I have a trip to the Nurpembrey comin up, and don’t say you don’t knows about it cos I already told you didn’t I? All the boys will be there too, and you don’t want me looking like a muppet when I’m on track, do you now? So get a grip, boyyo, and get off your lardy backside and get us some rubber. And stop treatin me like some choymee from the Valleys – we got lectric too you know.

If not, the boys will be round. And I don’t mean some tossa Japanese underworld softboys, I mean the proper stuff - the Gorseinon Greasers...

Start getting a grip. And give me some too. NOW. Or else.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

rblvjenkins said:


> _Here it is. Officially received and approved by the Welsh Assembly._
> 
> Mizuno-bach – Arrigh butt?
> 
> ...



Wouldn't you just like to add, that if they don't comply, you'll be burning their holiday homes down? :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Yeah and no mention of "in my Father's day..."


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## rblvjenkins (Mar 8, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Yeah and no mention of "in my Father's day..."


It's true -Lloyd George DID know my father.

And as for holiday homes, I thought we'd got them all by now? If not, addresses please....


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## MiGTR (Jul 31, 2007)

*Dunlop's new advertising campaign*


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Just to make everyone aware of this other discussion: http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/138813-go-wide.html


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I have today received this from Nissan:

Early this year, due to a supply issue, the Dunlop tyres designed to fit the Nissan GT-R were in short supply throughout the world, not just within Europe. However, we are glad to inform you that this situation has now eased and tyres can be supplied / ordered from any Nissan High performance Centre. In addition to any tyres the performance centres will hold we also have stock available in our parts warehouse in the UK and in our main holding centre in Amsterdam.

The cost of the tyres are as follows - 255/40 ZRF20 (front) costs £426.71, 285/35 ZRF20 (rear) costs £451.81, plus fitting and VAT. We believe this is a competitive cost for a manufacturer approved 20” tyre with its exceptionally high performance and run flat design.


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

John

Ignoring the inevitable charge for fitting, that works out @ £2070 ish for a full set.

As I have said several times, can you ask them to justify this price? They say tyres were in short supply earlier in the year which should mean prices were higher than now offered - in which case how could they have been available from retailers at £1500ish per set??

They are taking the piss! That letter might have well said - F off complaining that we are overcharging and have created an illegal monopoly on supply!!

Where is our R35 rep to ask the "real" questions?

D

PS - John this isn't a pop at you personally, so don't take it as such!


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I have asked "the real questions". I am working on reps but want to speak to all those that expressed an interest first and this takes time, sorry.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

This looks like a softer price; sure I got quoted £2600 by Glyn Hopkins.

Best indie quote I had was £1850 ish

Only slightly more than 888's right?

What's the word on indie RE70 supply?


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Definately a step in the right direction. Price is still very high though. Who did this letter come from specifically and was there any mention of availabilty via independants ?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Sorry but it's not relevent "who". Nissan can only quote for themselves and on behald of the NHPCs. The tyre/rubber companies are the ones to comment on the independents surely?


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

John

Sorry - I meant to say "challenge the supplied answer".

I acknowledge that this a (small) step in the right direction but still a significant amount higher than indies sold them when available.

D


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Beleive me this is not the end of the conversation and I think Nissan know that, which is whay we have more calls scheduled and a meeting provisionally booked as well


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## bobd (Mar 25, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Beleive me this is not the end of the conversation and I think Nissan know that, which is whay we have more calls scheduled and a meeting provisionally booked as well


In all negotiation there is a starting point from both sides, which is excellent that it has got as far as this. Unfortunately it's a bit like being a hostage tied to a chair with a gun to your head asking for a drink of water. Yes you can have some, but only a sip and then well put the gag back on.
There is no price for Bridgestones and to be honest if no one bought the Dunlops that would be a good move if only it got us somewhere. Unfortunately it doesn't. If the price were fitted and included vat then that would be ok. Don't forget in another 4 months your going to have another vat increase on the prices. I hope the GTROC get somewhere with this but to be honest I am fed up of the same old begging routine to get in place issues that should not be there. Tyres, brakes, customer service, no concierge in Northern Ireland, gearbox oil change costs etc etc.
Good luck with the negotiations, but for me Nissan all you have done is lose a customer who was set on buying his second GTR in 2011.
My car is away tomorrow for all the reasons above.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

As a result of this thread a lot of people voluntered their services. I accept there has been a delay but I have tried desperately to speak to all those who voluntered, some without success unfortunately. 

There are some that I know we should talk again and I hope they arestill interested in other roles within the GTROC. In the meantime I would like to announce the new roles and those responsible. Full details can be found in the GTROC members section: http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/members-discussion-forum.html


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Fuggles said:


> As a result of this thread a lot of people voluntered their services. I accept there has been a delay but I have tried desperately to speak to all those who voluntered, some without success unfortunately.
> 
> There are some that I know we should talk again and I hope they arestill interested in other roles within the GTROC. In the meantime I would like to announce the new roles and those responsible. Full details can be found in the GTROC members section: http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/members-discussion-forum.html


Good work . . . . was I supposed to ring you or were you ringing me at 5.30pm ?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

yes mate am trying to get through the home stuff to do it, sorry


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

Fuggles said:


> I have today received this from Nissan:
> 
> Early this year, due to a supply issue, the Dunlop tyres designed to fit the Nissan GT-R were in short supply throughout the world, not just within Europe. However, we are glad to inform you that this situation has now eased and tyres can be supplied / ordered from any Nissan High performance Centre. In addition to any tyres the performance centres will hold we also have stock available in our parts warehouse in the UK and in our main holding centre in Amsterdam.
> 
> The cost of the tyres are as follows - 255/40 ZRF20 (front) costs £426.71, 285/35 ZRF20 (rear) costs £451.81, plus fitting and VAT. We believe this is a competitive cost for a manufacturer approved 20” tyre with its exceptionally high performance and run flat design.


Hi

Thanks for this. I was quoted £520+VAT for one rear tyre 2 weeks ago by an HPC in Kent. It seems the prices are coming down because they realise that it is unacceptable that we should pay these prices, but that doesn't make the "new" price any less insane. In another 8 weeks maybe they will be down where they belong at £350 incl VAT.....I wont hold my breath though.

This sort of thing (reducing tyre price by 70 quid in no time at all) just smacks of greed and doing what they can to get away with charging as much as possible. Pathetic.


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

christer said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for this. I was quoted £520+VAT for one rear tyre 2 weeks ago by an HPC in Kent. It seems the prices are coming down because they realise that it is unacceptable that we should pay these prices, but that doesn't make the "new" price any less insane. In another 8 weeks maybe they will be down where they belong at £350 incl VAT.....I wont hold my breath though.
> 
> This sort of thing (reducing tyre price by 70 quid in no time at all) just smacks of greed and doing what they can to get away with charging as much as possible. Pathetic.


Well they wont get my money! 4 Dunlop "all season" tyres for about £1300 delivered and tax paid. From Tirerack in US.


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## Karls (Jul 12, 2010)

waltong said:


> Well they wont get my money! 4 Dunlop "all season" tyres for about £1300 delivered and tax paid. From Tirerack in US.


Good man! Which tyres, sorry, tires did you order exactly?


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

waltong said:


> Well they wont get my money! 4 Dunlop "all season" tyres for about £1300 delivered and tax paid. From Tirerack in US.



All R35 owners should do the same, that will be a massive f**k you to nissan and dunlop. Places like kwikfit should stop selling all dunlop products until they let tyre suppliers have a fair crack of the whip. Imagine how quick dunlop would react if all the tyre suppliers suddenly stopped selling all dunlop products and sold only tyres made by dunlops competitors? Dunlop would soon stop f*****g you all about and would supply tyres for R35's to anyone that wanted to stock them.

Folks, give up on nissan and dunlop because its obvious they dont give a f**k about anything other than emptying your wallets. Do a group email to pirelli, michelin, conti, and the other manufacturers asking them to design a tyre for the R35. With all the bullshit from nissan and dunlop, and the amount of R35's worldwide, another tyre manufacturer would make a killing by the shear numbers sold without resorting to supply and demand blackmail. R35 owners will need lots of tyres, so its economically viable for another company to put some R&D into a new tyre for the R35. It isnt rocket science after all.

What better way is there of saying "F**k you nissan and dunlop" than voting with your wallets?


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## tomgtr (May 24, 2008)

waltong said:


> Well they wont get my money! 4 Dunlop "all season" tyres for about £1300 delivered and tax paid. From Tirerack in US.


Yup did the same. Have after that 6 mionth to source some new summer tires again.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Just come from HPC where I enquired about Dunlops. Price still in the £500`s with a £10 difference between fronts and rears. Was also told bridgestones are now the same price as Dunlops . Weird


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Chris956 said:


> Just come from HPC where I enquired about Dunlops. Price still in the £500`s with a £10 difference between fronts and rears. Was also told bridgestones are now the same price as Dunlops . Weird


Truly mad!

I got 2 new fronts for £560 (ish) all in from KF.

So now it's 2 for the price of one.

Shameful....


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I was reminded of this earlier today. Somewhere about eight years ago there was some banter about Scottish slang and how to respond to a serious complaint at the time. I hope you enjoy......




Fuggles said:


> > Originally Posted by THEINZANTIGER View Post
> > DEAR MR. MIZUNO:
> > YOUR HELP IS REQUIRED AGAIN AND WOULD ALSO BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
> > WHEN I ORDERED THE R35 GT-R, I ORIGINALLY WANTED BRIDGESTONE TIRES.
> ...


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## justintian (Aug 7, 2015)

A very interesting read, thanks guys.


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