# shockingly poor hard pipe kit!



## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

well....i post this behind embarrassed red cheeks. I found a hks style twin turbo replacement hard pipe kit on ebay (i know what your thinking).

I had a genuine hks kit that i just never got round to fitting and just ended up selling due to it being sat in my loft for ages. Then when servicing the car recently, low and behold, i found one of the original rubber pipes that come's off the twin turbo pipe was split!

as you probably know the hks kits are rare and at a premium, so after many a month looking for a new or used hks kit, i find this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330472692849&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

i think to myself "it's only a set of alloy pipes, pfft, this kit will do the trick until i find a hks or greddy set".

anyway, after asking a few questions on fitment, seeing as these dont come with the turbo to afm pipes, i ask "will these fit with the original turbo to afm pipes in place". The plesent answer i got was yes, there a direct fit.....awesome!

few days later they arrive and i get them out the box, and this is what i'm met with:

























WHAT THE!?
also what you dont see in the pics, the flanges that bolt to the turbo's are bananna'd and wont seal.

so i email the company back and the apologise and give me £30 off to have the flanges refaced.

in the mean time i get rs fabrications in banbury to completely make me a new y pipe by hand and tig weld, and flanges refaced this cost me £250.
gorgeous new y pipe by rs fab

























i went to fit the turbo to y pipe pipe's today and you guessed it, they dont fit for sheet! the original induction hoses as previously mentioned interfere and make fitting impossible.....EVEN AFTER ME ASKING IF THEY WOULD BEFORE PURCHASEING. 

















so now im £400 quid out of pocket, i've split my already split hose even more removing it so now it's useless. And i'm left with the pipe's! only way around it is haveing induction pipes fabbed up just like the hks kit which will most likely cost me £250-£300 more!

i've asked Demon motorsport how there going to help me and awaiting a reply.

i'm never usually one to buy anything off ebay or cheap good's as i've been stung in the past, but bloody hell, how wrong could you get a set of pipes and silicone joiners!?

Does anyone know of a hks or greddy hard pipe kit for sale? or someone to make up indcution pipes for me as banbury is 2 hours away and rs fab arent the cheapest.
lesson learnt!


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## bigkev (Mar 2, 2008)

Not much to say except repeat what you said. Lesson learnt.


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

The HKS & Trust kits are expensive due to the exchange rate

however they do fit without any issues

 sad that the ebay ones are that shocking..

id put the stock pipes back (or find a second hand set) if yours are not up to it & buy the HKS etc when you have time

one thinig i would say is that the greddy one (from memory) doesnt require relocation of anything


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Wow the welding on the RS Fabrications one is great!

bob


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## D-Ranged (Aug 16, 2007)

WOW, that pipe is terrible. Hope you can get your money back mate.


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## souroull (Jul 21, 2008)

if the ebay one fits get a dremel like tool and smooth out the welding a bit and be done with it.

after all, it is just a piece of pipe 

or send the rs fab one backand demand a refund or the correct piece?


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## eddie w (Sep 26, 2009)

i was tempted to buy one of these from ebay pleased i didnt now


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

rs fabrication have made the pipe perfectly as i asked, it's the matter that i never test fit it to be sure the kit fitted beforehand. But seeing as i was assured they would, i went ahead.

this is the first and last time i go for anything unbranded

anyone point me in the direction of a fabricator near swindon or a greddy/hks kit?

Redline are expecting my car ready for a feature a.s.a.p


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Good effort, Why not take the car and pipe to rs and plead, then sit in there waiting room quietly till it's done :flame:


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## *Shane* (Jul 21, 2009)

Seen these too before on ebay and asked about fitment and told it was spot on lol


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## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

I wouldnt buy anything of Ebay and this goes to show.


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## Mikeydinho (Jan 30, 2009)

I feel your pain,

The HKS and trusts are well over priced for what you get (imo of course), ive seen this before on ebay but just looking at the weld from the ad pictures i knew it was not going to be good. But i guess you get the perfect fit with the big brands.

If i was you id file a complaint with paypal, it does do what its ment to, dispite having it re-welded it looks 10x better then theres, you have them message saying its a direct fit and its not. Hope it gets sorted mate, real shame that!!!


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

yep, i still have there message and emailed it back to them


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

*Shane* said:


> Seen these too before on ebay and asked about fitment and told it was spot on lol


yep, i have it in writing still, so annoyed!


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## Marlon88 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hard pipe kits are way too overpriced!!! Get someone skilled to fab them for you.


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

souroull said:


> if the ebay one fits get a dremel like tool and smooth out the welding a bit and be done with it.
> 
> after all, it is just a piece of pipe
> 
> or send the rs fab one backand demand a refund or the correct piece?


just to set this straight, the rs fab pipe is perfect, just a copy of the shite pipe demo motorspot sold me.


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## souroull (Jul 21, 2008)

ah gotcha you had the ebay one properly fabbed without test fitting.


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## blitzman (Mar 14, 2006)

Cheers for sharing this info.
The more of us that know this the fewer of us will buy this crap.
Shame it was you who had to find the hard way.
Any chance of you sending it back for a refund?


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

That old saying is right-buy cheap pay twice.
Thanks for the heads up tho mate


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

Look's like i'll be having indcution/afm pipes fabbed, which in a way is good as i'd like to still use my apexi filters. Which was a huge reason as to why i first sold the hks kit.

im still looking hard for a used hks or greddy kit in the mean time


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

demon motorsport are giving me a full refund, to be honest, i think this is just one of the cheap chinease kits imported. There being quite decent about it.

my search continues...


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## Mikeydinho (Jan 30, 2009)

Pleased to here this at least there is something good to come from it. I bet when they made one it fitted fine, but making lots of them the product got worse and they never test fitted thoses ones that were getting sent out lol


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

OK, well the company are now aware of this thread thanks to a fellow gtr owner LOL. As previously said, they are sorting me a refund and been very decent about it. Nothing wrong with shareing my experiance's with other owners and saveing others a quid or too. This kit should never have been sold to me full stop, so i believe im within my right's to go public.

i tried to fit the rest of the kit today, it's miles out and not a hope in hell in fitting, A VERY PI$$ED OFF CLARKY.

so the kits going in the bin and im going to have to fork out serious cash for a proper kit.


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## Mikeydinho (Jan 30, 2009)

Big boner killer bro, but atleast you get a refund. The hard pipe kits are alot, im sure someone on here was selling a full kit for £500, have a look in the parts for sale.


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

and this is just off the front turbo, the rear's were even worse, couldnt be bothered to take more pics as it just depressed me!


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## Mikeydinho (Jan 30, 2009)

Awful, nice one on the pictures tho


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

refund being dealt with, fair play to demon motorsport.

hope this is a lesson to everyone that reads this


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## blitzman (Mar 14, 2006)

Good to hear you got a refund.
He does have very good feedback so i think he's a decent trader.
Just caught out with a dodgy product.
Shame you had to find out by trying to fit it.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Glad to hear you're getting things sorted out.

It is the mark of a good trader that they sort out their problems. Just because an item is cheap doesn't mean that it will be rubbish. Nice to see that the company involved take this view too.


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## *Shane* (Jul 21, 2009)

Like this item would sell like hot cakes if they got the fitment correct first day when making them. I came across a set for sale on ebay.com last night and it was the exact same as the above kit, shame really as it was a fraction of a genuine kit


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

just forked out £700 for a greddy suction kit....gulp


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

looks like a rebranded AutoBahn88 kit...

They are just as shocking, and poorly fab'd


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

i just watch the for sale section like a hawk. Gave £100 for my HKS Kit


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## jap power (Jun 19, 2010)

sorry to jump in hear but i had the same problem before with that ebay stuff than i got the hks kit yes alot of money i think and surly some kits can be made up cheaper ? anyway my friend is a metal worker and wants a kit but doesn't have the money, so he is going to make some kits up very soon so keep a eye or two lol on the sale section regards paul


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## blitzman (Mar 14, 2006)

God i love these.
On latest lush R32 from Matty.
Have to start saving up.:runaway:


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

can't wait for mine to arrive, not too keen on how good the air filters are mind you


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## blitzman (Mar 14, 2006)

Yeah i'm not a fan of Greddy filters.


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## Mikeydinho (Jan 30, 2009)

clarky_gtt said:


> just forked out £700 for a greddy suction kit....gulp


Glad you sorted something tho even if its £700 will be worth it. It is a shame there is no British company that makes up a full kit and a fair price.


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## *Shane* (Jul 21, 2009)

Mikeydinho said:


> It is a shame there is no British company that makes up a full kit and a fair price.


totally agree with ya on that


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

so long as you keep the filters fresh, then it will be ok


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

It's kind of ironic that a dirty filter actually filters better than a new filter although conversley will flow a bit less.


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

The apexi's are better, but you cant have small apexi's to fit on the greddy pipe kit

its a trade off

ARC boxe's are very good induction (they are foam)

the reason why HKS get a bad rep is that no one ever changes the elements, granted they are not that good to start with but no one in the UK changes them

Blitz SUS is very much overlooked


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

High tune 33 in JP, didnt have an issue using them


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Jup but Japs are just plain crazy


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

r33 gts-t apexi cone filters bolt directly to the z32 afm, so i can use them in the future.

those ti copy greddy pipes are crazy! engine bays abit untidy though, and whats the deal with the cheapo jubilee clips lol?


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

clarky_gtt said:


> r33 gts-t apexi cone filters bolt directly to the z32 afm, so i can use them in the future.
> 
> those ti copy greddy pipes are crazy! engine bays abit untidy though, and whats the deal with the cheapo jubilee clips lol?


The apexis wont fit, there isnt enough room in the engine bay

the cone filters are not short enough from memory

Ti pipes - thats just a DIY jobbie, 

the car was being broken up

you can buy Ti ones off the shelf


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

The problem is with using apexi filters and greedy pipes, they wouldn't clear the washer bottle. Leo has sorted it with his but he's not running afm's.
If you relocate your washer to the boot you'll prob be fine. See "skylife" for a write up of that. 

Bob


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## clarky_gtt (Dec 28, 2006)

i have a r33 and use a top secret washer/catch tank combo any way.

the greddy pipes can be shortened to the afm, i also have access to a pipe flange tool. Trust me, with all the messing about i've gone through, i've seriously checked and researched this time round.

the greddy airnx filters will do untill i upgrade to z32's next winter


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## bobdawelder (Jan 1, 2007)

back on the subject of quality, i bought a hks set, had them mirror polished to look nice, this revealed a few casting floors, later on whilst running at pod, the motor tried to climb out on a big rpm launch, broke off a back flange allowed in un metered air which subsequently melted a piston! which goes to prove... an armani suit will rip!


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Ooow good analogy mate!

Bob


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## EssexStu (Apr 25, 2005)

I got given a set of those autobahn cheapo auto boost pipes, looking at them, thought, i can do something with them 

reworked the y-piece as you urself did, have then flowed them all, powder coated and this is what im currently building in mine (just finding time to finish her at the mo)...


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## jasaircraft (Feb 15, 2009)

is the HKS IC hard pipe kit for a 32gtr the same as a 33 gtr??? (talking about intercooler pipes only) because I have a hks one put in my 32 and it seems to be short...


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## damodeane (Dec 23, 2010)

**** me i was watching these on ebay also ,glad i went genuine hks now


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Just shows you only get what you pay for.

I'm up against it all the time, most people have no idea how much crap comes out of China and how time consuming and expensive it is to make that kind of kit properly.

Rob


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Just shows you only get what you pay for.
> 
> I'm up against it all the time, most people have no idea how much crap comes out of China and how time consuming and expensive it is to make that kind of kit properly.
> 
> Rob


I'm 90% with you on this Rob but lets be honest, with the manufacturing might of China how hard can it be to replicate a set of bent pipes???? I agree, for THIS particular set it would seem difficult but a little care in back engineering an HKS set for example should see them bulk produced to the same spec as HKS/Trust etc in greater numbers and reduced cost..

TT


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

tarmac terror said:


> I'm 90% with you on this Rob but lets be honest, with the manufacturing might of China how hard can it be to replicate a set of bent pipes???? I agree, for THIS particular set it would seem difficult but a little care in back engineering an HKS set for example should see them bulk produced to the same spec as HKS/Trust etc in greater numbers and reduced cost..
> 
> TT


Problem is TT, Chinese manufacturers seem to go on visual appearance over dimensional accuracy and always use inferior grades of materials. To me, they also fail to grasp the end purpose of the part they're ripping off. I'm with Rob on this, you do get what you pay for. I know we don't want to get stung by GTR tax but I'd be a lot happier knowing I'd got the quality I'd paid a bit more for than paying to put damage right after trying to save a few quid using Chinese shit.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Problem is TT, Chinese manufacturers seem to go on visual appearance over dimensional accuracy and always use inferior grades of materials. To me, they also fail to grasp the end purpose of the part they're ripping off. I'm with Rob on this, you do get what you pay for. I know we don't want to get stung by GTR tax but I'd be a lot happier knowing I'd got the quality I'd paid a bit more for than paying to put damage right after trying to save a few quid using Chinese shit.


Oh, absolutely mate. I agree with you... 
All I'm saying is that with a bit of care in getting the dimensions right, the cheap chinese kit would be fine. As for materials (specifically for this example of a piping kit) theres really only so much you can do to balls it up. Even the chinese would be hard pressed to ****-up piping material....

Its frustrating because IF the chinese COULD make decent quality alternatives then not only would folks buy it at cheaper cost, the 'Big Boys' (i.e. HKS, Trust etc) might start to think about being a tad more competitive (read 'realistic') about their own pricing. 
Take for example, an intercooler pipe kit for an R32GTR... I can see how it might be slightly pricier initially due to development costs etc....most things are... HOWEVER..You would think that after 22 years of the R32 GTR being available, these same intercooler pipe kits would have more than recouped their development costs and the manufacturer would drop prices accordingly. Clearly not-so in the case of GTR bits. WHY some parts are SOOOO costly is truly a mystery to me. 

TT


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Having been to several Chinese factories over 3 different trips (totally different business to what I do for RIPS) and seeing first hand how they operate, trust me, your lucky the part even resembles what its suppose to be.

The problem is, in most cases, the factory has NO IDEA what it is they are making, they don't know what it does, what it needs to be able to handle, they don't know what a GTR is, or pretty much anything else and to them, if the 2 parts joined together don't break apart the first time they drop them on the floor, its a pass.

They have no concept of what real quality material is, they use the cheapest that "looks" like what you have asked for and their idea of a nice looking part is on a totally different planet to ours, you only have to see their vehicles and how they maintain them, there are no rules, you use ANYTHING to make a quick fix and if you get home with your side of the road dodgy as repair, its a win.

I've seen brand new state of the art CNC machines on dirt or ricity wooden floors in old tin shacks where the power supply is literally a LIVE cable running the length of the shed that all the machines leads clip onto with aligator clips.

I've seen 12-14 year old girls assembling petrol engines, I asked the MANAGER of the factory a little about the engine and what it would be used for and he had absolutly no idea, he admitted he knew nothing about engines and nore did his staff. "we just bolt together Mr Rob"

They want to pump out whatever it is they are making hard and fast and cheap thinking they will have long term happy customers based on price only.

There's no question a suitable factory "could" produce a quality hard pipe kit but who's going to take the time to properly jig up, train the staff to weld properly, get the factory owners to properly understand the end products requirements, get the correct materials supplied to the factory and then order 10,000 sets to make it worth everyones time and investment?

Rob


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> There's no question a suitable factory "could" produce a quality hard pipe kit but who's going to take the time to properly jig up, train the staff to weld properly, get the factory owners to properly understand the end products requirements, get the correct materials supplied to the factory and then order 10,000 sets to make it worth everyones time and investment?
> 
> Rob



Yep and to add to what Robby has said above, there is places there that can do the this. Rare tho! . But by the time this part gets to us the costs will not be much cheaper than the real thing. If on a £1000 quid part you end up saving maybe £100 quid as it doesnt have a name compared to the same part being made by HKS then you will chose HKS over it. O and add on the fact that if your chinese parts arrived faulty or damaged i dont think you would have any chance of sending it back.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

mattysupra said:


> Yep and to add to what Robby has said above, there is places there that can do the this. Rare tho! . But by the time this part gets to us the costs will not be much cheaper than the real thing. If on a £1000 quid part you end up saving maybe £100 quid as it doesnt have a name compared to the same part being made by HKS then you will chose HKS over it. O and add on the fact that if your chinese parts arrived faulty or damaged i dont think you would have any chance of sending it back.


With respect most of the 'Chinese' stuff is much less than 10% cheaper even after tax etc.

Plenty of 'Chinese' stuff is of decent quality and plenty is tat. The problem is you don't know which is tat and which is OK. Though given some of the threads I've read recently that might be the case with dealing with some UK companies too.

It's hardly news that the emerging manufacturers can manufacture stuff cheaper than the rich nations. It wasn't that long ago that we were told that you shouldn't buy that 'Jap crap' as British products were much better and if you wanted quality you paid for it.

To my mind the problem is that the Skyline market is far too small to interest the quality 'Chinese' manufacturers. I have bought a number of decent generic parts which are perfectly good quality and very little cost. Can't say I'd put much faith in any warranty offered but I was aware of that when I bought them. The Skyline specific stuff however seems to be much worse. I guess that the guys who make most of this stuff are the chaps that Rob is referring too.


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

HKS, GREDDY etc, have not changed their prices on anything over the past few years

a hard pipe kit used to be £200 shipped its now double that

global exchange rates are the issue

however personally id not use anything that wasnt branded on my car but thats just me


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## trevbwhite (May 15, 2007)

its got to be done properly or not at all!


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

The subject of HKS et al Vs other 'stuff' was discussed long and hard a good while back. Those who will ONLY buy branded parts are welcome to do so however, there are alternatives. That's not to say that they are all Chinese in origin though.... Not that you would know it buy manufacturing is still alive in the UK and I have had some stuff made by UK companies. Recently had a downpipe made by Janspeed. Superb quality and craftsmanship and at a price which was still a good bit less than buying Trust/HKS etc from Japan. In times like these I'd be happier keeping my cash in the UK than sending it abroad. 

I'm convinced you could find a UK based company that would make you a piping kit that would fit for LESS than you buy a NEW Trust/HKs set...

TT


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## Wade (Jul 31, 2008)

tarmac terror said:


> The subject of HKS et al Vs other 'stuff' was discussed long and hard a good while back. Those who will ONLY buy branded parts are welcome to do so however, there are alternatives. That's not to say that they are all Chinese in origin though.... Not that you would know it buy manufacturing is still alive in the UK and I have had some stuff made by UK companies. Recently had a downpipe made by Janspeed. Superb quality and craftsmanship and at a price which was still a good bit less than buying Trust/HKS etc from Japan. In times like these I'd be happier keeping my cash in the UK than sending it abroad.
> 
> I'm convinced you could find a UK based company that would make you a piping kit that would fit for LESS than you buy a NEW Trust/HKs set...
> 
> TT


You only have to look at carbon parts. Imported chinese crap yet people who dont really know what they are looking at think they are the best thing since sliced bread!

Two suppliers on here come to mind for cheap sh!te carbon. Pay for what you get I suppose!

*+1 for british engineering.*


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## trevbwhite (May 15, 2007)

matty32 said:


> HKS, GREDDY etc, have not changed their prices on anything over the past few years
> 
> a hard pipe kit used to be £200 shipped its now double that
> 
> ...


£400 for a hard pipe kit! bargain!


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

You dont breed a race horse on chicken feed.


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## jasaircraft (Feb 15, 2009)

regarding stuff like pipes, you can see the fastest either drag, track or rally cars do custom stuff that arent always branded. The important thing is that you have to seek functionality and quality regardless of brand or trust blindly on a high end brand and pour your money on it.


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## bwrgtr (Aug 8, 2010)

anyone running hks intake kit with apexi filters on 32?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I fell for that ****ing autobahn 88 crap before - my IC pipes came from them. All of them are a bit too short. Replaced one when I installed an HKS BOV w/hard pipe kit, the bottom ones I compensated for by getting them flush with the FMIC, then using good silicone hose not just as couplers, but as extenders as well. So on the turbo side, there's a 2" gap between pipes, covered by a long length of silicone hose. I've made it work, but then, should I have had to??

I wouldn't knock Chinese manufacturing - their quality stuff is top-notch. Problem is, it's also getting pretty expensive. I think these knockoffs are being made by 3rd or 4th tier manufacturers using hand-me-down tooling from the top-tier manufacturers. And I would agree - making these parts are too small in volume to be of interest to the big Chinese factories who could make exact duplicates out of quality alloys. Hell, it's not even enough volume to keep the Japanese tuning houses solidly profitable.


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## Wade (Jul 31, 2008)

kismetcapitan said:


> I fell for that ****ing autobahn 88 crap before - my IC pipes came from them. All of them are a bit too short. Replaced one when I installed an HKS BOV w/hard pipe kit, the bottom ones I compensated for by getting them flush with the FMIC, then using good silicone hose not just as couplers, but as extenders as well. So on the turbo side, there's a 2" gap between pipes, covered by a long length of silicone hose. I've made it work, but then, should I have had to??
> 
> I wouldn't knock Chinese manufacturing - their quality stuff is top-notch. Problem is, it's also getting pretty expensive. I think these knockoffs are being made by 3rd or 4th tier manufacturers using hand-me-down tooling from the top-tier manufacturers. And I would agree - making these parts are too small in volume to be of interest to the big Chinese factories who could make exact duplicates out of quality alloys. Hell, it's not even enough volume to keep the Japanese tuning houses solidly profitable.


Must admit my toaster is top notch quality... but thats as far as I would go


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