# 2009 GTR too 2011 GTR ?



## michaelsk (Jul 18, 2007)

Anyone thinking about upgrading to the new model when its out ?

Cost of change is going to be ~£30 K 

I also saw in the latest Evo, Nissan will provide an upgrade path for existing owners ? Not sure how


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

3009 to a 2011 is a good step back....but i think we all will never know


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## manjit (Dec 17, 2009)

Would never downgrade from a 3009 model, 100 years backwards


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

manjit said:


> Would never downgrade from a 3009 model, 100 years backwards


ninehundredninetyeight...tb exact...:wavey:


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## michaelsk (Jul 18, 2007)

doh ! mods could you please change to 2009


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Where do you get the £30k figure from? Is it the trade in value of the -09 versus the new price of the -11?

Out of interest do you have an -09 and has it been valued for trade in?


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## michaelsk (Jul 18, 2007)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Where do you get the £30k figure from? Is it the trade in value of the -09 versus the new price of the -11?
> 
> Out of interest do you have an -09 and has it been valued for trade in?


trade in value of 09 ~£40K 11 will be £72K


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

According to Whatcar a 2 year old black edition is worth £36.7K so expect to be paying an extra £36.7K by the time you add tracker mats parking sensors etc.

I was thinking maybe at around 20K but its far to much for another 40hp and 10Kg less. 

A diet and a Cobb will save £36K...


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

I think you will find P/X value is about £43-44k for an 09 Premium as long as it doesn't need tyres and brakes, that's what i've been getting having made enquiries but they will knock you hard if the car isn't mint and needs money spending on it.

I wouldn't pay £65k for the new model let alone £70k+ what planet are they on ?

People who can afford a GTR aren't stupid, if they see the servicing costs plus tyres, brakes etc. they just won't buy simples.


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## JoZeff (Feb 2, 2010)

Doesn't make you wanna stay loyal to the brand does it?


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## Gatling (Jun 16, 2010)

JoZeff said:


> Doesn't make you wanna stay loyal to the brand does it?


I dont see how its any different to any other brand, you always get stiffed at trade in!


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## JoZeff (Feb 2, 2010)

Really. I can't think of any model that has gone up 40% in 2 years. 
2009 model 53k 2011 73k that is some inflation!
I am not talking about trade-in value in isolation the difference between new and old as a percentage at upgrade time is simply staggering.


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Well residuals are actually very good compared to other 1 year old cars but how will the new model hold up ? Not enough upgrades to justify the price in my opinion. Surely it will drop much harder than the current model as I don't see where the extra value is ?

I think those of us with 2009/2010 cars have done very well to buy early if the new price really is £70k+, can't see them being worth more than £50-52k when 12 months old.


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## AL0481 (Dec 3, 2009)

was at WLMG Mill hill today and they will have prices on 16/10/10 no more blac/premium just one car with options on the seats - standard or recaros I have to say I am tempted loving the blue!!


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## TimJMS (Nov 16, 2002)

I must say I'm tempted by the DBA car as well. More than by any other car since the CBA. The changes made make it an even more mouthwatering prospect.


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

paul__k said:


> According to Whatcar a 2 year old black edition is worth £36.7K so expect to be paying an extra £36.7K by the time you add tracker mats parking sensors etc.
> 
> I was thinking maybe at around 20K but its far to much for another 40hp and 10Kg less.
> 
> A diet and a Cobb will save £36K...


If it is a 2 year old car then its not a UK car and that would be reflected in pricing.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

I would rather Import a Japanese Spec than buy an UK spec if the price is raising like this.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

JoZeff said:


> Really. I can't think of any model that has gone up 40% in 2 years.
> 2009 model 53k 2011 73k that is some inflation!
> I am not talking about trade-in value in isolation the difference between new and old as a percentage at upgrade time is simply staggering.


I would imagine that the new pricing being quoted includes the 2.5% VAT uplift. I'd also imagine that if you've got waiting lists for your car then the market will bear a cost increase. It's hardly uncommon. Unless of course the manufacturing costs for the Caymen really are that much higher than the Boxster. Or if the...


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Ironically, the big rise in price for the DBA should raise the value of CBAs, much as the Ferrari 458 has raised second hand values of F430s.

Problem is for those wishing to trade up in March, will that adjustment be factored into trade-in values yet?


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## TimJMS (Nov 16, 2002)

If I can trade for around 20k next year I will. It's not just the power hike I'm after, but the complete package. Warranted.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

No point really changing ,Nisaan bought out various other models on the 34 v spec v spec 2 etc ,it's all the same car .Rather wait a few years and get a 36 if one comes out.


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

my thoughts as well Stealth....

the power hike in the 11 version is likely just exhaust, mapping and more acurrate assement of the performance. IE the stock JDM 08 had 508 to 515 anyway

Most of the other stuff is like the 95 series one to series three R33 GTR.... ie not a lot

its more of thing for JDM and US markets which has the yearly changes. Most countries in EMEA don't follow these yearly update thing


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Robbie J said:


> my thoughts as well Stealth....
> 
> the power hike in the 11 version is likely just exhaust, mapping and more acurrate assement of the performance. IE the stock JDM 08 had 508 to 515 anyway
> 
> ...


Not according to a pretty surprised John Barker. He (and to a lesser extent Andrew Frankel who only got to drive the car in the wet) was astonished by how much the car's handling had been improved, something Dirk Schoysman confirmed.

Sure it's still an R35, but it's a far more significant jump than any previous year.


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

AL0481 said:


> was at WLMG Mill hill today and they will have prices on 16/10/10 no more blac/premium just one car with options on the seats - standard or recaros I have to say I am tempted loving the blue!!


Not true. There is still a Black edition: darker headlining, Recaros with red trim, that's about it.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Naranja said:


> Not true. There is still a Black edition: darker headlining, Recaros with red trim, that's about it.


Whilst there may still be a choice between Premium or Black for the Japanese market, I was led to believe that the UK would get the Black ed only and the red seat flashes were optional. It would be a bit like the R33 and R34, UK cars were only V-Spec and had several features that differentiated them from JDM. 

I guess we'll find out on the 18th but my inclination is that there will be just one high spec available.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Naranja said:


> Not true. There is still a Black edition: darker headlining, Recaros with red trim, that's about it.


UK market might be different Andy. Chris at Middlehurst suggested that we might only get the Black Edition but with optional Recaros for some reason.

Why would anybody choose not to have them? Unless it's a way to make money by charging a lot extra for them?


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

David.Yu said:


> Not according to a pretty surprised John Barker. He (and to a lesser extent Andrew Frankel who only got to drive the car in the wet) was astonished by how much the car's handling had been improved, something Dirk Schoysman confirmed.
> 
> Sure it's still an R35, but it's a far more significant jump than any previous year.



Yeah but it's still the same car and not a new model ,sure great to be able to change if you have unlimted cash flow but if not put that 30 + grand away for the next model ,money that could be used for an r36 .Nissan after all are trying to make money they are not going to say the car dose not have that much more to offer than the original ,I mean look at the hype of the spec v ,it was slower round the ring and cost a packet for a Midnight purple type colour and ,well that was about it really .Each to their own I suppose


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

David.Yu said:


> UK market might be different Andy. Chris at Middlehurst suggested that we might only get the Black Edition but with optional Recaros for some reason.
> 
> Why would anybody choose not to have them? Unless it's a way to make money by charging a lot extra for them?


Oh, I see. Apologies. I was going by what we told in Germany. You're absolutely right about the Recaros though, they were excellent. I dread to think how much the carbon ones will be....


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Guys, the seats will all be Recaros but only the drivers seat will say Recaro. They will be black or black with optional red flashes.


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Guys, the seats will all be Recaros but only the drivers seat will say Recaro. They will be black or black with optional red flashes.


That's good news, the blue car with red seat trim didn't look quite right. Shame about the bit on the gearstick though, eh David?!


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## ozzy1 (Feb 3, 2010)

Having spoken to Sonic at Ancaster about the new car he said Nissan will be releasing upgrade packages to 'future proof' the existing cars. For example; pack A is a 59 plate upgrade, pack B a 2010 upgrade pack and pack C a 2011 upgrade pack. The packs upgrade everything that have changed on your car to the specified pack spec.

The idea is to give existing owners a cheaper upgrade path. I can't imagine how much cheaper it will be though as there are a fair few changes between my 59 plate car the the 2011.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

ozzy1 said:


> Having spoken to Sonic at Ancaster about the new car he said Nissan will be releasing upgrade packages to 'future proof' the existing cars. For example; pack A is a 59 plate upgrade, pack B a 2010 upgrade pack and pack C a 2011 upgrade pack. The packs upgrade everything that have changed on your car to the specified pack spec.
> 
> The idea is to give existing owners a cheaper upgrade path. I can't imagine how much cheaper it will be though as there are a fair few changes between my 59 plate car the the 2011.


09 cars clearly need no improvement then 

Probability of these upgrades appearing; low


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## michaelsk (Jul 18, 2007)

The upgrade path is also mentioned in this months evo


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

Zed Ed said:


> Probability of these upgrades appearing; low


Probability of these upgrades appearing at reasonable cost; zero


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Anyone know if the rumour that the upgrade pack does NOT include an ECU +40hp update is true?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

mickv said:


> Probability of these upgrades appearing at reasonable cost; zero


Agreed.

And I can't see how they can retrofit the handling tweaks like the reinforced bulkhead and the carbon brace can NOT be retrofitted.

The ECU would be the easy bit, but I doubt the UK is going to get any of them.

It's the GT-R "Royalty plan" (loyalty translated badly!) that has been available since 2009 in Japan.
But as we are apparently finding out, the UK will not be getting hardly any of the Japanese offerings, e.g. Spec V, M Edition, Club Track version, Pure Edition and probably Premium Edition, so the upgrade pack is the last priority!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

I can't believe anyone is even entertaining thoughts of an upgrade pack or upgrading to a 2011 for that matter.

Performance differences, 99% of the time, for 99% of drivers, will be immaterial. I bet my car would feel better if Tosh Suzuki was driving it round the ring:bowdown1:

This is margin/sales driven model iteration; nothing more. And the pricing is a dry bum from Nissan.

Clearly if it pulls up used prices, then it is a fantastic idea and hats off to Nissan

.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Zed Ed said:


> I can't believe anyone is even entertaining thoughts of an upgrade pack or upgrading to a 2011 for that matter.
> 
> Performance differences, 99% of the time, for 99% of drivers, will be immaterial. I bet my car would feel better if Tosh Suzuki was driving it round the ring:bowdown1:
> 
> ...


100% correct

oh my...... price raise on used cars is ridiculous thing to do.

And yes if any F1 race car driver drove my car it would feel like a F1 race car.


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## manjit (Dec 17, 2009)

Zed Ed said:


> I can't believe anyone is even entertaining thoughts of an upgrade pack or upgrading to a 2011 for that matter.
> 
> Performance differences, 99% of the time, for 99% of drivers, will be immaterial. I bet my car would feel better if Tosh Suzuki was driving it round the ring:bowdown1:
> 
> ...


Couldn't say it better myself, personally however better the new car is it wont take away the fact that a better driver than me would make my car seem faster and more stable than if i were driving the 2011 model, so taking into account the price rise I wont be upgrading.

However I am pleased that there is a big price increase because it makes my old car seem even more of a bargain (£56k Vs £72k) I waited 18months for my car and I would not have been too please if only 10 months later a new upgraded version at the same price came out so I'm pleased its almost £18k more.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

I thought old cars won't raise in price 
I guess I was wrong abouth that.


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## jameyboy (Aug 27, 2009)

I just sold my 2010 6 mth old Black Edition back to my dealer , with 3500 miles, perfect in every way, for £48000, but got nobbled at trade in as one of my discs was scored. They knocked off another £1000 for that and told me it might have been a stone from the road. They also told me that if it had been a service item I would have had to have new discs and pads all round at some scary ( not mentioned ) price. I lost a packet on the car , but in some ways am pleased as no-one likes £000's of unknown costs at service time.


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## JoZeff (Feb 2, 2010)

Sounds like they pulled your pants down there. 
It never ceases to amaze me how greedy the stealers are. I fully accept it's a business that wants to make money less overheads etc etc. But how many times do you walk away from stealers after trying to negotiate a deal knowing they have tried to make a very good profit margin on the car to be purchased and a very good margin on the trade in. So the punter gets bummmed twice. I spoke to a stealer not so long ago who clearly had a waiting punter for my trade in as he contacted me and had only just had in the car I was interested in and wanted to pay 4 grand less than Market value for mine and wanted 3.5 grand over the trade in value for the new. 
Suffice to say I left with my bot virginity intact. 
Up there with estate agents for me, but don't get me started on that one!


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

I asked Middlehurst, and specifically Gary Feeney, about the upgrade packs.

The answer is simple - the UK and Europe will not be getting it!!

D


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

How do they achieve the extra performance on the new model ? simply more boost ?


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

manjit said:


> Couldn't say it better myself, personally however better the new car is it wont take away the fact that a better driver than me would make my car seem faster and more stable than if i were driving the 2011 model, so taking into account the price rise I wont be upgrading.
> 
> However I am pleased that there is a big price increase because it makes my old car seem even more of a bargain (£56k Vs £72k) I waited 18months for my car and I would not have been too please if only 10 months later a new upgraded version at the same price came out so I'm pleased its almost £18k more.


Anyone currently driving an R35 would be bonkers to place an order. Come delivery time you'll get shafted on your P/X and no hope of a discount on new. Better to wait until your HPC has a few floating around (cancelled orders) and you can negotiate on price and trade in. There will be a lot of cancelled orders beween now and next March!


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

I'm not lucky enough to own a new GTR, but if I did, there is no way I would "upgrade".

The new GTR is FUGLY, fairy lights and crap wheels - I much prefer the '09 model with a few tuning goodies.

All IMO though, I couldn't even dream of being able to afford a £57,000 - £72,000 + car.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

ChuckUK said:


> How do they achieve the extra performance on the new model ? simply more boost ?


Larger diameter intake piping, less restrictive exhaust and cats, slightly more boost and tweaked timing and fuel maps.

Nothing you can't do very cheaply and easily to your car!

If only they had specced the fractionally bigger SpecV turbos, it would raise the tuning potential for the car significantly...


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

David.Yu said:


> Larger diameter intake piping, less restrictive exhaust and cats, slightly more boost and tweaked timing and fuel maps.
> 
> Nothing you can't do very cheaply and easily to your car!
> 
> If only they had specced the fractionally bigger SpecV turbos, it would raise the tuning potential for the car significantly...


Does this mean that remapping a 2011 car will see smaller gains ? as your closer to the limit of certain components.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

ChuckUK said:


> Does this mean that remapping a 2011 car will see smaller gains ? as your closer to the limit of certain components.


Ultimately I suppose so, as you will still be limited by what the turbos can usefully flow, so the difference between 530hp and 630hp is obviously less than the difference between 485hp (if you believe the stock power claim) and 630hp (about the upper limit of the stock turbos).

But it does mean that a standard car can get more power from a custom tune before you need to start changing exhausts and intakes.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

It's a shame the power wasn't increased by turbo changes, if you have a aftermarket exhaust/intakes your back to the same point as modding the new model.

What about trans changes ? if LC is under warranty has this been beefed up ?


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

ChuckUK said:


> Does this mean that remapping a 2011 car will see smaller gains ? as your closer to the limit of certain components.


hard to say, but if injectors are still 570cc & turbo's same size then that's still the celing until those two uprated.

Engine & gearbox exact same.

Dave did you order one ? i did but since cancelled when i saw the 70k tag. i quite wanted blue but seems everyone else has the same idea.

i'll mod the ass off a early model instead & colour change :flame:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Benji Linney GTC said:


> hard to say, but if injectors are still 570cc & turbo's same size then that's still the celing until those two uprated.
> 
> Engine & gearbox exact same.
> 
> ...


Still on the fence. Can't help thinking that changing the instant it comes out could be the most expensive time.

At this new price, once the early adopters have got hold of theirs, won't the price soften a bit? And will the predicted bump in trade in values happen a few months after launch rather than immediately upon launch?

I deeply want one having sat in and been driven in one, but the cost to change is a bit beyond what I want to spend right now.
As you say, £25-30k buys an awful lot of mods!

What do you think the 800+hp UK cars are costing in terms of modding costs?
Are your CR turbos better for response than the big US ones, e.g. AMS, Switzer etc?
If I went big turbo it would have to be as responsive as stock or it would spoil the character of the R35 IMO.


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

David.Yu said:


> Still on the fence. Can't help thinking that changing the instant it comes out could be the most expensive time.
> 
> At this new price, once the early adopters have got hold of theirs, won't the price soften a bit? And will the predicted bump in trade in values happen a few months after launch rather than immediately upon launch?
> 
> ...





I can't see the new 2011 model price softening at all. its 70k all day long from now on.

Dealers have trade in guys where they want them, they can almost offer what they like hense why 39k has been mentioned, but heard some low mileage 09's can get 43k trade in.

ball park 25k-30k (inc labour) will get you a 850R forged engine (rods, pistons, head, cams, marston cooler, modified turbo's and gearbox goodies)

yes modified oem turbo's keep great oem response but add's 150-200hp at the top


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

David.Yu said:


> Ultimately I suppose so, as you will still be limited by what the turbos can usefully flow, so the difference between 530hp and 630hp is obviously less than the difference between 485hp (if you believe the stock power claim) and 630hp (about the upper limit of the stock turbos).
> 
> But it does mean that a standard car can get more power from a custom tune before you need to start changing exhausts and intakes.


Just a thought but are you sure that the turbos are the same size. I always thought that Nissan said that the V Spec had exactly the same turbos as the stock car but it doesn't.


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

It seems to me that if used values rise (and I would expect that they might) then that would start to happen once it was no longer possible to buy a brand new GTR for £60k or less. In the very short term the fact that the 2011MY is due imminently would seem to make new prices a little softer, whilst there is stock of the old model. I would see that 09 Premiums without Sat-Nav are going to be hard to offload moving forward as buyers increasingly expect Sat-Nav as most cars out there will have it.

Having had 2 absolutely piss taking trade in offers from Nissan in the past (and sold privately on both occasions for a lot more) why would anyone focus on the PX route?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

AndyE14 said:


> It seems to me that if used values rise (and I would expect that they might) then that would start to happen once it was no longer possible to buy a brand new GTR for £60k or less. In the very short term the fact that the 2011MY is due imminently would seem to make new prices a little softer, whilst there is stock of the old model. I would see that 09 Premiums without Sat-Nav are going to be hard to offload moving forward as buyers increasingly expect Sat-Nav as most cars out there will have it.
> 
> Having had 2 absolutely piss taking trade in offers from Nissan in the past (and sold privately on both occasions for a lot more) why would anyone focus on the PX route?


No doesn't have to be P/EX, just second hand values of 2009 cars generally.
I agree, that's why I said I think cost to change will be slightly less a few months after launch.


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> No doesn't have to be P/EX, just second hand values of 2009 cars generally.
> I agree, that's why I said I think cost to change will be slightly less a few months after launch.


Surely if used prices increase (and thus cost to change reduces) it won't be determined by when the new model is launched but when you can no longer get a brand new 2010 model (as this effectively reduces supply, increasing prices)? If all orders being taken are now for 2011 models and once all cancelled 2010 orders (and there must be a few with 2011 around the corner) have been resold, then that is the point at which used values might change and that would be ahead of 2011 launch.

I am holding off for the moment as I think it would cost around £20k to change only a year in and I would like to see some dealer, reliability and service schedule improvements before I commit. I have been thinking about a Maserati GT too (not equivalent but looks like fun and track days aren't my thing).


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## bobd (Mar 25, 2008)

Is the new model going to have a better warranty? I certainly would not spend £70K on a car that had warranty exclusions such as brake discs and also the piss take gearbox oil price.
IMHO Nissan missed the boat with this car as far as customer service from day of launch to present day. If anything, what is going to change with the new 2011 model as its the same people dealing with your car and warranty.
Not happy mine had to go as I do miss the car I just cannot put up with poor service from anyone.


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

bobd said:


> Is the new model going to have a better warranty? I certainly would not spend £70K on a car that had warranty exclusions such as brake discs and also the piss take gearbox oil price.
> IMHO Nissan missed the boat with this car as far as customer service from day of launch to present day. If anything, what is going to change with the new 2011 model as its the same people dealing with your car and warranty.
> Not happy mine had to go as I do miss the car I just cannot put up with poor service from anyone.


Totally agree. A £70K car deserves better! Actually any car deserves better than what we've had form Nissan! Personally I would want to see the warranty, servicing, and sort out the tyres fiasco before giving Nissan another load of money. I genuinely believe the new price will make the 2011 model much harder to shift and "deals" will be on offer once the hype has gone. 
Keep your existing car and walk into your HPC in May/June and I reckon there will be better P/X deals and discounts to be had!


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Agreed, its an truly amazing car, but most people in this bracket will not put up with:

4 x servicing frequency vs Porsche
2 x Tyres prices vs Porsche
2-3 x brake prices vs Porsche
No news yet on extended warranties etc

It's all very well saying these can all be bought cheaper if you go outside Nissan, but most new car buyers in this market do not know they can and don't wish to, they just want an easy simple experience that's not taking the piss. 

One of the reasons I sold mine was that after only 8,000 miles and 10 months it was about to go into a dealer and would have needed work totalling £5k to put on new discs/pads/tyres and do the full oil, diff and gearbox service. It comes to something when after having had Porsche, Ferrari and Lambos, the most expensive car to run is a Nissan!


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