# Cost for Y-pipe + stage 1 + 2 mods?



## nickwallwork (Jul 24, 2011)

Hi All,

Please can people post some ball park costs for stage 1 + 2 tuning costs for us newbies please?

e.g. y-pipe - parts and labour? Is a re-map needed?

Is the Cobb unit I've read about stage 2? what are the costs for both parts and labour again?

Would be good to have a single definitive thread on this if the responses are comprehensive?

Thanks in advance for the contributions 
Nick


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## SBR (Jul 13, 2010)

nickwallwork said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Please can people post some ball park costs for stage 1 + 2 tuning costs for us newbies please?
> 
> ...


Y pipe is roughly 450 for a steel one. Miltek one is popular. Cobb comes with a stage 1 and stage 2 as standard and is rougly 750 inc vat delivered. Cobb you install yourself, 10 min job. Y pipe, can be fitted by yourself or by kwik fit etc or prob 25 - 50.


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

We charge £1,095 Inc vat and fitting for our Milltek and custom remap. This will give you around 550-560bhp 

We have more information on our website or feel free to call anytime.

Regards

Iain


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## nickwallwork (Jul 24, 2011)

Iain - does that include a Cobb or is that not needed for a one off re-map?

What exactly does a cobb (or similar) do?

Thanks for the help!
Nick


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Litchfield use ECUTEK software and you dont get a Cobb device - its a simple reflash for Stage 1 directly from a laptop via your diagnostic port.

Great value!

D


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## R35Audio (Jul 9, 2002)

Is a COBB worth anything after you sell your car without it? Can you use it on your next car or can it be sold as a second hand COBB for someone else to use?


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

We have both new and used Cobb units available but our stage upgrade prices are based on using the Ecutek software to custom tune each car  

Very shortly you will be able to buy a Ecutek cable which will perform a huge number of extra features. We will be putting details on our website shortly 

regards

Iain


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## goRt (May 17, 2011)

SBR said:


> Y pipe is roughly 450 for a steel one. Miltek one is popular. Cobb comes with a stage 1 and stage 2 as standard and is rougly 750 inc vat delivered. Cobb you install yourself, 10 min job. Y pipe, can be fitted by yourself or by kwik fit etc or prob 25 - 50.


I think you'll find that the Cobb price is 750+VAT

Can be taken from car to car

Waiting to see what toy Iain is about to launch


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

I believe it will allow remote mapping!

D


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

goRt said:


> I think you'll find that the Cobb price is 750+VAT
> 
> Can be taken from car to car
> 
> Waiting to see what toy Iain is about to launch


Ontop of the price of the Cobb unit you have to then pay extra to get a custom map bespoke to your car and pay even more if you want the flexability of TCM mapping - EcuTek comes with a custom bespoke map as standard.

The EcuTek "Dongle" will allow very similar features to the Cobb but by the use of your laptop rather than an Ipod size device. IIRC you can even uninstall etc etc to take to your new car.

Horses for courses and if I had to have one I know which way my money would go.


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## Russ83 (May 3, 2011)

I Just had this installed at the weekend. Y-pipe and accessport supplied by Ben at GTC. Had the Y-pipe fitted by a local garage with a ramp, it took all of 15 minutes and cost £25. 

Access port is very easy to use, just plug it in and follow the instructions. I loaded the stage 2 97ron map. A very easy and cost effective modification and I have to say my car is bloody awesome now! A much smoother drive and my God does it go! Next step will be custom tune with switchable maps!


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I think this needs sumaarising as it might appear confusing.

The cobb is 750+vat and is hardware that let's you tune you car.

When you sell the car, you can remove the map and keep the cobb/sell it.

The cobb comes with preloaded maps relating to different stages of tune. You can pay an additional £250 and have your cobb custom tuned to your car by Ben Linney. This can be done remotely. The cobb allows you to switch maps via the steering wheel controls and datalog etc via the ipod sized device. It is continually supported by a large online community. Features are forever being increased due to consistent work via the likes of Thistle and cobb, including responding to feature requests.

The Ecutek is a laptop based software package and owned by the tuner in this case Iain Litchfield.

When you go for an Ecutek you buy a license which enables a laptop that you don't buy to be plugged into your car and tinker with the ecu, just like the cobb. The map is currently installed by the mapper in person and so every ecutek install is a custom tune and also includes map switching etc. The ecutek should therefore only be compared with the custom tune cobb at £1000 vat. I believe like the cobb they can make the same adjustments to the gearbox.

Recently announced soon to be released features include the license being removable and transferrable/sold for use on another car. Also a cable/dongle (this might contain the license - not sure) for use with a conventional laptop that you need not buy, that lets you analyse the data. This also allow remote mapping.

Ecutek is a closed platform in that all development is done in house by them, but due to their common software across all their platforms, the user interface (when using the not yet released cable) is probably a little better developed and user friendly, but performance wise I'd be incredibly surprised if anyone could tell which was which from behind the wheel.

Upside of cobb is having hardware to sell downside is you are buying hardware that can only map a car.

Ecutek with cable will provide you with a license/cable to sell on, but you rely on mapper's or your own laptop. This makes purchase price much lower despite being a custom tune but you have less to sell afterwards.

Horses for courses.

Upsides and downsides to each. I chose the ecutek mostly because I've known and trusted Iain Litchfield for a long time. There are definite pull factors for me towards the cobb, such as the nline community and development that I enjoy the idea of getting involved in, but ultimately I just wanted to get in and drive and leave the development to the professionals. This means you don't get to suggest things and enjoy the beta testing type stuff. 

Overall features wise, there remains nothing in it as far as the man on the street is concerned.


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## SBR (Jul 13, 2010)

goRt said:


> I think you'll find that the Cobb price is 750+VAT
> 
> Can be taken from car to car
> 
> Waiting to see what toy Iain is about to launch


I paid 650 + VAT from GTC and 6 for P&P.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

plus whatever charge for custom map.


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## alloy (Apr 29, 2005)

the Y-pipe and custom Ecutek at 560bhp is pretty much bang in line with Y-pipe and COBB pre-loaded stage 2 tune....


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

sumo69 said:


> I believe it will allow remote mapping!
> 
> D


That will be just the tip of the iceberg David ... I could tell you more but then I would have to kill you


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## nickwallwork (Jul 24, 2011)

alloy said:


> the Y-pipe and custom Ecutek at 560bhp is pretty much bang in line with Y-pipe and COBB pre-loaded stage 2 tune....


So "Stage 2" is basically a Y-pipe and a Cobb with the "stage 2 tune" loaded?

If this is stage 2 what is stage 1? Am I missing something as I thought stage 1 was just exhaust / air filter changes normally??

Thanks for the clarification everyone, useful thread so far 

Nick


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Stage 2 runs more boost and some timing changes I believe. Stage 1 will see you with circa 540bhp. This for me was biggest jump in terms of feeling the difference in power and drivability but stage 2 isva must and you won't be happy with that for long....slippery slope!


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Nick

Stage 1 can be added without any exhaust changes = 540/550bhp

Stage 2 requires Y pipe change (to remove 2 cats) = 560/570bhp

Custom stage 2 (which is really stage 2.5) requires full exhaust and uprated air filters change = 575/585bhp

David


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Doublepost - sorry!


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## Turbotwo (Jan 28, 2011)

Stevie76 said:


> and you won't be happy with that for long....slippery slope!


I concur,the slope is indeed very slippery..


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## SBR (Jul 13, 2010)

Stevie76 said:


> Stage 2 runs more boost and some timing changes I believe. Stage 1 will see you with circa 540bhp. This for me was biggest jump in terms of feeling the difference in power and drivability but stage 2 isva must and you won't be happy with that for long....slippery slope!


Is it me or do most agree that Cobb stage 2 is not noticeably different. Maybe i was expecting too much after reading rave reviews on cobbing, but i don't feel that it's made that much difference.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Do you mean stage 2 vs stage 1 or stage 2 versus stock?

If the former I can understand your point but if the latter, if it's anything like the custom ecutek map and full milltek exhaust, then the jump should totally blow you away.


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## SBR (Jul 13, 2010)

Adamantium said:


> Do you mean stage 2 vs stage 1 or stage 2 versus stock?
> 
> If the former I can understand your point but if the latter, if it's anything like the custom ecutek map and full milltek exhaust, then the jump should totally blow you away.


Stage 2 vs stock. Puzzling. I'd say v disappointing and was going to remove but ben at gtc PM'd and will call him in a.m. I can see boost goes to around 1.1bar but that's all i notice. I do have problem with the drive shsft which is due to repaired soon under warranty.....maybe that is limiting power to thw wheels?


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## SBR (Jul 13, 2010)

SBR said:


> Stage 2 vs stock. Puzzling. I'd say v disappointing and was going to remove but ben at gtc PM'd and will call him in a.m. I can see boost goes to around 1.1bar but that's all i notice. I do have problem with the drive shsft which is due to repaired soon under warranty.....maybe that is limiting power to thw wheels?


Ben at gtc mailed me a x4 map switch for 99 ron fuel. NOW i notice the difference. Car just pulls like a train now. Best it's ever felt. Would recommend this map to anyone else. GTC as ever, the best.


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## nickwallwork (Jul 24, 2011)

sumo69 said:


> Nick
> 
> Stage 1 can be added without any exhaust changes = 540/550bhp
> 
> ...


Spot on thanks for the clarification David....

What would a stage 2 (above) be with a custom map but NO exhaust? Think this might be where I'll take it as the exhaust is a massive outlay....


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

upgrade turbos  stage 2 is slow


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Rob = we all haven't got loads of dosh spare!! Doesn't stop me being very jealous :>)

Nick = Not 100% on this, but don't think a Custom option is available without a complete exhaust change and 100% sure that you would need a Y pipe to get past Stage 1.

Perhaps Ben or Iain can confirm if they read this.

David


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

When the Y pipe is removed, are there any other cats left in the system? I'm guessing that's it. 

So does anybody offer high flow cats? I'm guessing most of the Stage 2 tunes lean out the mixture, would this not then be suitable for HFC's, or are the stock cats already high flow cats?

Personally I prefer running with HFC's than catless.

Regards
Nito


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

Done some searching and I can answer my own question, I see there are cats in the downpipes also. 

These are also available with HFC's from the likes of Agency Power/AMS between $1600 and $1900.

Cheers
Nito


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

sumo69 said:


> Nick = Not 100% on this, but don't think a Custom option is available without a complete exhaust change and 100% sure that you would need a Y pipe to get past Stage 1.


Not recommended by Ben, but............ I have a stage 2 custom tune with no other changes The car runs very well & noticeably quicker than stage 1. 


Rich


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

NITO said:


> Done some searching and I can answer my own question, I see there are cats in the downpipes also.
> 
> These are also available with HFC's from the likes of Agency Power/AMS between $1600 and $1900.
> 
> ...


we have high flow catted downpipes with cast bell mouth but your better off going decat in the downpipes and having race cat in the Y-pipe further away from turbo's if you want cat for emissions/noise etc...


GTC catted downpipes with Zircotech diamond black coating (same as used by Lamborghini on their exhausts)


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Rich-GT said:


> Not recommended by Ben, but............ I have a stage 2 custom tune with no other changes The car runs very well & noticeably quicker than stage 1.
> 
> 
> Rich



how are you rich ? any news/plans ? pod/ Brighton speed trials ?etc...

Although we generally see a little less knock / able to run little more ign timing with cat y-pipe removed GTR's due to less heat/better flow, stage 2 maps are fine for stock GT-R's. Thistle himself on his totally stock gtr runs a custom stage 2 map with 17psi peak falling to 1.1 at 7k.

I think you still have the fastest 0-400 stage 2 in the country since 2009. 11.0 1/4 mile


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

So assuming no significant performance increase from an aftermarket exhaust, what are the advantages over keeping the OEM system?

Is it weight and noise or is there more?

D


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

if it doesn't flow any better, the only differences avaiable to an exhaust are weight and noise.

I'd be surprised if an aftermarket exhaust doesn't flow better, but it can be done. If you have nasty welding on the inside of a join, it creates turbulence in the form of eddy currents at the surface of the pipe. These have the effect of reducing the diameter of the pipe, As you know, a reduction in the effective radius has a massive effect on the cross sectional area of the pipe and so can make it MUCH more restrictive. This is why mandrel bending can be so important.

But regardless, of how you name the stages etc. reduce the restriction in the intake and exhaust, and custom map at any stage, that's always going to be the best use of funds when looking for first mods to an engine.


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

Hi Ben,

Hope you're well. That looks very nice, couldn't see them on your site. Interesting that you say its better having cats in the Y-pipe, I would have thought the opposite given that the sensors are in the Front pipes hence better ecu control? (I presume there is some sort of cat temperature probe in the downpipes).

When you say Rich's car is the quickest stage 2 in the country, is this stage 2with stock exhaust or stage 2 car full stop??!

Cheers
Nito


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Stock car has ceramic cats, aftermarket race cats are metal based and can't cope with the heat in the downpipes.

They tend to fail and start rattling around.

Ben's advice makes complete sense to me.


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

NITO said:


> Hi Ben,
> 
> Hope you're well. That looks very nice, couldn't see them on your site. Interesting that you say its better having cats in the Y-pipe, I would have thought the opposite given that the sensors are in the Front pipes hence better ecu control? (I presume there is some sort of cat temperature probe in the downpipes).
> 
> ...


Stock - and only measured by a day out at Santa Pod so not scientific research!


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks Adamantium,

So what figures will a stage 2 (custom) AP car, with injectors, decat downpipes, catted Y pipe and exhaust typically produce.

What is the most the stock turbos can safely deliver??

Thanks
Nito


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Stage 2 doesn't normally mean downpipes too. Stock downpipes with everything else you say is stage 2 in my book, but ignorign that, I think you are looking at 620ish. Injectors don't give you more performance, they are a supporting mod that lets you fuel safely for the level of breathing you have modified your car to allow.

Can't comment on what the turbos can safely deliver as I don't hasve direct experience of it. Better off asking Litchfields or Ben who would tune cars to that level all the time. I would guess something like 650 ish, but it's an estimate, with no knowledge to back it up other than knowing when tuners start suggesting replacing the turbos.

ps. are you the same Nito who bought Cem's car years back, and before that was on scoobynet and 22b.com? If so then I believe we go way back. I used to post on scoobynet under the name Adam M.


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

Benji Linney GTC said:


> how are you rich ? any news/plans ? pod/ Brighton speed trials ?etc...
> 
> . Thistle himself on his totally stock gtr runs a custom stage 2 map with 17psi peak falling to 1.1 at 7k.
> 
> I think you still have the fastest 0-400 stage 2 in the country since 2009. 11.0 1/4 mile


Hi Ben

Yes very well, been concentrating on getting the hang of Goodwood this year.
Not been back to the Pod but am booked in for the Brighton Speed Trials in September, so will be trying the latest TCM launch map, should also be a 2011 R35 & an R33 there.

Had forgotten that T has runs standard harware and a stage 2 tune... Still very pleased with the performance of this Software only Stage 2 99Ron custom map, and would be interested to know how much of an improvement a Y pipe & zorst would make? Am holding off because of noise concerns & that there may not be much performance improvment, but will probably change for next Year. 


Rich


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

Hi Adam,

I thought it was you (from the nature of your posts  ), but didn't you used to post here as Adam 22B or something?!

Anyway, how could I forget  

Would be good to catch up one day! Were you at the millenium scoobynet bash at the sports bar cafe years ago??

I'm considering a GTR now, they've grown on me, but which MY?? Modded '10 or wait for an '11. I'm guessing you'll be in the modded '11 camp!! I should be test driving one next week.

Regards
Nito
(apologies for the thread hijack!)


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I was just 22B, but asked Cem if he could rename my account so I didn't look like a newbie, having been here almost since the beginning, I didn't want to lose that.

Bit concerned about the (from the nature of your posts) comment! I hope that's a compliment of some kind!


I left scoobynet a long time ago kept up with a select few who are still around, but they all seem to have motorbikes and BMW diesels now.


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Subaru owner's club reunion 

When we had the Milltek exhaust tested by the TUV for its type approval they found the rear silencer outflowed the original by 37% at standard boost levels. This reduction in back pressure will only help performance and will also increase as power goes up.

You want to get a CAT/restriction as far away for the heat source for reduced restriction (Rally cars will run the in the rear silencer). You want them as close as possible to the heat source for emissions. On the GTR we have had FIA Motorsport 100cell cats designed into the Y-pipe.

Regards

Iain


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

Indeed Iain!! 

Adam, lol,....just referring to the technicanal content we were so used to on Snet and 22b 

:smokin:
Nito


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

I run 1.1 bar at 6000 and 1.0 bar at 7000 RPM on a completely stock car and it still feels more than ample given that I mostly run it on undulating, twisty B roads that benefit from fluidity and control/throttle modulation. Visibility holds it back in the dry, traction in the wet, so I don't need any more.

Midrange I use about 1.2 with slightly richer fuelling that does smoke a bit but seems sensible given four cats, and have a higher boost setting of 1.3 which is a bit leaner which feels nicer, doesn't smoke or knock, but I hardly use it as I want to preserve the rods. The extra torque from higher boost does tend to make it a bit wilder in the wet, and I hear more transmission noises with the extra torque. It just feels more sympathetic to run 1.2.


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