# Track review of the 2011 GT-R @ Spa and the Nordschleife April 2011



## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

I would like to start off this review with some trip facts:

Distance covered (door to door) 2397 miles inc trip to Stuttgart
Average Fuel Economy for trip: 12.7mpg
Distance covered at Spa (1 day minus 2.5 hours): 222 miles, Peak ambient temp 22c
Distance covered at the Nordschleife (1.5 days): 440 Miles, Peak ambient temp 25c
Max Temps on circuits: Engine oil 117c, Transmission oil 129c, Coolant 92c
Max hot tyres pressures with 29psi cold starting point: 42psi
Suspension settings: Front: -1'55" Camber, 0.04inch Toe in, Rear: -1'55" Camber 0.02inch Toe in
Brake pads at Spa: Project Mu MAX900i front and rear on OEM discs, Fronts pads at the Nordschleife replaced with Ferodo DS2500

Suspension / Steering / Tyres:
Much improvement under heavy braking from high speed, no more feeling of the rear end breaking away. Subtle damper improvements with reduced "white line" effect. Faster more precise turn in, less effort to maintain constant radius turns. Less pronounced understeer is evident, can't quite decide is the roll rates of the front and rear ARBs has been changed but it feels like a stiffer rear or slightly softer front! Camber setting were fine for the rear at Spa but not enough for the front, front tyres (see pic) were baddy worn on the outer edge with the slip angle triangles being worn some half way down, at May's visit to Spa I will be using 2.5 degrees, perhaps more if I can dial it in, based on my last adjustment session there is more to be had from the eccentric adjusters, I will keep the rear values the same. I would like to thank Middlehurst (Gary and Dave) for the speedy supply of my new front tyres after a text message I sent them last week, much appreciated!





Rear tyre Creep:



Engine /Power:
Extra BHP compared to 2010 car not really seen on circuit with max 155MPH (2 up) on back straight at Spa, 178MPH (2 up) on Nordschleife straight. Increased midrange torque was felt as this improved the uphill pull on Eau Rouge and allowed a taller gear to be selected when near the red line on corners, I feel the engine is still a little tight and it will be interesting to see how the car performers at Spa in May with a load more miles on her. I managed a new PB of 2:50 at Spa with the 2011 car compared to a best time of 2:55 with the 2010 car and a freer engine. The much higher ambient temp this time at Spa must have played a part in the reduced top end, last time out with my 2010 the ambient was a maximum of 8 degrees C.

Seats:
Much improvement with the Recaros with lateral support being particularly good, no more "sweaty" than the 2010 model despite my fears to the contrary.

Brakes:
The OEM brake discs lasted and performed much better than expected, I did swap the pads out before leaving on the trip with PMU's and they worked great with no fade issue despite 8+ back to back laps at Spa, the discs are showing signs of surface cracking (like the AP discs do after heavy use) but only very small cracks appearing around some of the drilled holes, not bad for the abuse I put them though. I had to cut the Spa day short by 2.5 hours because of the inner front pads being down to less that 2mm! I got Alex to replace them with Ferodo DS2500 which worked pretty well at the Nordschleife and there are still some left in the front even now, rears pads are now toast. The DS2500s have left a strange pattern on the discs (see pic) but operated just fine, I put this down to the pad material left over from my PMU pads still being present. I will be re-fitting my Alcon Big Brake Kit (with new front discs) with Pagid RS29 pads for next month's trip to Spa.





Whats left of the PMU front inner pad:



Wheels:
Improved brake cool is partly down to the new wheel design, the running temps of the wheels was lower than the 2010 car (based on touch test), I believe the increased number of spokes that are thinner are responsible. Tyre creep on the front was 0 with around 2.5 inch slippage on the rears, so much for the improved knurling! Grip levels on a par (in the dry, no wet testing done yet) with original pre 2011 Dunlops, wear rate seems a little higher, they worked very well until they got too hot (no temps taken but TP were 42psi) and at that point the performance dropped off a cliff unlike the Bridgestones which have a lower grip level but taper off when hot in a much more progressive and controlled fashion, 4 wheel drifts were the order of the day when the Dunlops when off the boil, the wear rates on the BS based on my last time at Spa was also much better. I have just replaced the 2 fronts with a pair of Sport Maxx Dunlops again to get the wear out of the rears. It would have been interesting to see if lowering the TPs when hot would have improved the grip / wear rate, I did not drop the pressures because of lack of access to Nitrogen, I may well try this next month and top off with compressed air afterwards.

Gearbox:
Although there are not many changes on the 2011 gearbox one that was most apparent was the lack of a "kangaroo" take off in 1st gear when hot, anyone what has tracked a pre 2011 car will know what I mean! On the 2011 car this did not happen full stop, a most welcome improvement as it could make you look like you could not drive correctly not to mention the stress this causes to 1st gear and the clutches! R mode shift are as you would expect from the 2011 car and pretty much on a par with the 2010 car.

Traction Control:
The programming for R mode on the TC seems to have been improved as well. Normally I don't use TC but decided to test the effect of it on and off, it added a maximum of 2 seconds a lap based on a number of averages taken by my trusty track side time keeper.

Save Mode:
This works! I tried it out on the long stretches of road that linked up the circuits and achieved around a 2mpg improvement over normal consumption, the first 300 miles I did based on travelling "around" the speed limit returned 24.5mpg. It seems to cap the top speed to around 155mph and the acceleration pace was drastically reduced, be very careful on A/B roads when brisk overtaking is required as you will find it slow compared to normal operations no matter how hard you mash the pedal!

Conclusions:
Is the 2011 GT-R worth £70k, I would have to say yes all day long, anyone who has not owned a R35 before would be over the moon with what this machine can do, however IMHO it is not worth the cost to change from a 2009/2010 UK Nav car unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket. I intend to fit Bridgestone tyres after this current set is toasted and I will report back on my finding then WRT road holding etc.

Short "Fly By" video taken by Chris at the 'ring:
YouTube - Destination Nurburgring - Trip 014.MOV

A few shots from Spa:


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## alloy (Apr 29, 2005)

Great write up, thanks for sharing :thumbsup:


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

have you reached 129 C on the TM?


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Great write up Arcam.....very detailed and found it really interesting...out of curiosity how do you think the DS2500's would work on the road?


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

great write up Arcam. car seems to have been significantly improved by all acounts. 
surprised about the F DS2500`s i did not rate them at all !


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Good write up Eddie.

Shame the discs still crack round the holes... I take it you won't be buying another set! I was getting just over 150 down Kemmel so similar performance.
Does depend on how much balls you have going into Eau rouge though.
Quite surprised your fronts wore out quicker than the rears.

I used DS2500 pads at the ring on my old Z and got significant brake judder when only doing 1 lap and a half hour cool down.

Are you fitting the existing Bridgestones?

I'm guessing your max temps were at Spa.
My trans temps were over 110 in under 5 laps with a 22 degree ambient.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

alloy said:


> Great write up, thanks for sharing :thumbsup:


You are welcome alloy  Glad you liked it.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

enshiu said:


> have you reached 129 C on the TM?


"Max Temps on circuits: Engine oil 117c, Transmission oil 129c, Coolant 92c"

Yep


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Stevie76 said:


> Great write up Arcam.....very detailed and found it really interesting...out of curiosity how do you think the DS2500's would work on the road?


Thanks!

They would work just fine on the road, nice and quite and about the same stopping power at OEM. Ferodo list them as "Performance Pads", I would not use them at Spa but for the lighter braking duties at the 'ring they were fine.

I did not have a lot of choice as I did not take my spare pads with me but I was lucky that EvolutionVI had a new set in stock and they worked fine with my PMUs in the rear.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

nick the tubman said:


> great write up Arcam. car seems to have been significantly improved by all acounts.
> surprised about the F DS2500`s i did not rate them at all !


Cheers Nick, see my comments to Stevie WRT the DS2500s.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

paul__k said:


> Good write up Eddie.
> 
> Shame the discs still crack round the holes... I take it you won't be buying another set! I was getting just over 150 down Kemmel so similar performance.
> Does depend on how much balls you have going into Eau rouge though.
> ...


TBH Paul the cracking around the holes are pretty minor considering I ran hard pads against them, to give you some idea of the heat in the brakes my caliper dust seals are shot already!

Agreed on Eau Rouge, normally flat in 4th and into 5th just before the bottom dip and then flat in 5th on the start of the climb, you need to carry as much speed as poss onto the back straight. I reckon that another 5 secs can come off that time when I get some more negative camber dialled in at the front and the engine loosens off some more.

Max temps were at Spa and yes I was planning on using the "old" Bridgestones.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Nice write up Eddie. It was a pleasure to meet you again and to have some more pax laps with you.

I've pax'd with Eddie at a few places, Anglesey, Silverstone...and now on the Nordschleife.

For what it's worth, I think the 2011 car is utterly astonishing. Phenominal grip and power. 3 laps to 78ltrs though? Jeeeeeez!

As I said on the day, mate - once you know the NS properly and have the braking and turn-in points in your head, you'll be very quick indeed around there. I think I was only genuinly scared once. lol

See you in July hopefully.

p.s. Still prefer a Skyline.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

tell me more about turn in and less understeer 

what is that like?

one feature of my car I don't like at all

thanks for taking the time to write up


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

moleman said:


> Nice write up Eddie. It was a pleasure to meet you again and to have some more pax laps with you.
> 
> I've pax'd with Eddie at a few places, Anglesey, Silverstone...and now on the Nordschleife.
> 
> ...


Cheers Ian :thumbsup:

ROFL! So you were only scared once, looks like I was not trying hard enough :nervous: I meant to try the harder shock setting as they worked well for you when you took me out, your smoothness on the Nordschleife was something to behold and I would be very happy to get close to your knowledge of the track.

Hope to see you and Robbie in July as well


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Arcam said:


> "Max Temps on circuits: Engine oil 117c, Transmission oil 129c, Coolant 92c"
> 
> Yep


Engine oil and TM is way too hot.

Have you changed the TM and engine oil after track use.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Brilliant mate - eloquent and objective as always. Interesting you say not worth cost to change from MY09/10 - very honest of you. Need to chat brakes next time we hook up - when you back in blighty?


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Zed Ed said:


> tell me more about turn in and less understeer
> 
> what is that like?
> 
> ...


You could dial a lot of that out on your car Ed by fitting a stiffer ARB in the rear and run some more negative camber on the front.

I used fairly aggressive alignment setting on the 2011 which helped the turn in, but as the 2011 also has more castor than the pre 2011 cars then that also helps increase dynamic camber, which again helps the front end turn in quickly.

The trick with these big heavy but well balanced cars it to complete all your braking before the corner and be smooth with the steering inputs using constant throttle until around the apex and then squeezing the power in as the lock comes off, this will remove the tendency to understeer.

Remember once the front tyres slip angle is exceeded and they start to slide (understeer) most people pile on more lock which makes matters worse, lifting off mid corner will transfer weight but will also unsettle the car so should be avoided, a quick left foot brake to transfer weight to the front can help but is something that needs to be practiced in a controller environment.

I am uncertain if the 2011 car has a stiffer rear or softer front ARB as the diameter of the bar looks the same ... but it could be a stiffer material which will help the understeer, sorry I can't be more specific.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

ROG350Z said:


> Brilliant mate - eloquent and objective as always. Interesting you say not worth cost to change from MY09/10 - very honest of you. Need to chat brakes next time we hook up - when you back in blighty?


Cheers Rog, I am back now just changing out the fluids on my machine today but around all weekend if you want to chat.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

enshiu said:


> Engine oil and TM is way too hot.
> 
> Have you changed the TM and engine oil after track use.


I am doing it today enshiu.


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## jackg (Feb 1, 2010)

Thought I might add my twopenneth on this debate!

I raced my 2011MY at the Goodwood Spring Spring last weekend. I was 1 1/2 sec a lap faster than last year in my 2010 car at 88.12 sec. Car feels quite similar to old one but launch control is better but it does spin all 4 wheels off the line and through 2nd which is not ideal!

It won the over 2ltr production car class by 2 1/2 secs apparently setting a production car lap record. The only car there which was quicker was a Porsche 997cup car on slicks which posted 85.7 sec which was a tad slower than he did last year as a comparison.

So to conclude, I'd say it is empirically quicker than last years model by 2%


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

moleman said:


> Nice write up Eddie. It was a pleasure to meet you again and to have some more pax laps with you.
> 
> I've pax'd with Eddie at a few places, Anglesey, Silverstone...and now on the Nordschleife.
> 
> ...


Phew, for a min there I thought you had lost it Moley !!!!

I have a very nice R33 GTR still "up for sale" if prefer a Skyline !

However, as Eddie states FOR ANYONE WHO HAS A 2009 / 2010 GTR AN UPGRADE TO THE 2011 CAR JUST AINT WORTH IT, something I have been saying all along (ask Mr (very quiet) Yu) !!LOL:flame:


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## drumzz (Sep 18, 2010)

nice writeup Arcam, even more relevant since im off to the nordschleife on monday..

i never hear anyone mention wear on the bushes, is this not a concern with either the my10 or 11 cars?


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

Thanks for a really informative write-up Eddie - a great read. Two questions occur to me:

1. Did you manage to establish that using BS tyres won't cause issues over warranty etc - can't see why it should but note you have posted earlier about dealer views on this being less than helpful? Not relevant for me personally with my 2009, but would be interested to know the outcome all the same.

2. Whatever has happened to Alex/Evo VI? He's gone very quiet, which is a loss to this forum as he obviously knows his stuff, but clearly he's still alive and well as he helped you out with the pads.

Cheers
Mick


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

drumzz said:


> nice writeup Arcam, even more relevant since im off to the nordschleife on monday..
> 
> i never hear anyone mention wear on the bushes, is this not a concern with either the my10 or 11 cars?


The bush wear had not been an issue on my 2010 car and I did 14 track days and 14k miles last year. Front caliper dust seal, tyres, discs and pads yes, but not bushes


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

mickv said:


> Thanks for a really informative write-up Eddie - a great read. Two questions occur to me:
> 
> 1. Did you manage to establish that using BS tyres won't cause issues over warranty etc - can't see why it should but note you have posted earlier about dealer views on this being less than helpful? Not relevant for me personally with my 2009, but would be interested to know the outcome all the same.
> 
> ...


Well Mick, the simple answer to question 1 is no I have not got any further with that issue, the avenue I had hoped would shed some light on it did not pan out unfortunately. However having have the front tyres off yesterday there does not appear to be much in it WRT the enhanced rim knurling that was touted as the reason for only fitting the later Dunlops, Middlehurst have been as helpful as they can be on this issue.

I guess I will be the guinea pig and try out a set of Bridgestones when this set in done, probably towards the end of next month.

Question 2: Alex is alive and kicking but very busy at the moment as he is in the process of getting a new larger premises up and running along with all the headaches that involves.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Arcam said:


> I am doing it today enshiu.


getting the bridge fixed to the ground tonight.


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

Thanks Eddie. Someone's got to be first eh. Think it's a low risk experiment though.
Mick


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

mickv said:


> Thanks Eddie. Someone's got to be first eh. Think it's a low risk experiment though.
> Mick


Me to Mick 

Swaped my diff oils out today along with engine oil and filter and the Diff oils were toast! Just a reminder for those who track their cars not to overlook these important items.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Arcam said:


> I guess I will be the guinea pig and try out a set of Bridgestones when this set in done, probably towards the end of next month.


Dont forget that cheap set I`ve got if you want them mate to trash on track rather than pay full splosh :thumbsup:

Was a great trip and at 178mph the first slight kink on the Ring turns into a real big balls corner and the sheer bumpyness of the Dottinger Hoe straight has to be experienced to be believed. Good suspension round that place is essential and the MY11 has that in abundance. There was no way I could go round with it in Race setting.


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## Mouton45 (May 19, 2010)

*good time around Spa.....road tyres*

Thats a good time around Spa on road tyres - I remember your not being sure about the 2011 but your write up seems to go pretty positive, if not more.

Eau Rouge - a beast but great to get right and the speed carried up the top if you get it right as you say will save you 5 sec plus.

Data logging on the race car shows the laptimes are made and lost at eau rouge. the rest is all balance and balls - car set up makes a huge difference around Spa. I've raced 6 times at Spa and set up is the be all and end all:thumbsup:


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Arcam said:


> Me to Mick
> 
> Swaped my diff oils out today along with engine oil and filter and the Diff oils were toast! Just a reminder for those who track their cars not to overlook these important items.


DO you have any modifications on this MY11 car?


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Chris956 said:


> Dont forget that cheap set I`ve got if you want them mate to trash on track rather than pay full splosh :thumbsup:
> 
> Was a great trip and at 178mph the first slight kink on the Ring turns into a real big balls corner and the sheer bumpyness of the Dottinger Hoe straight has to be experienced to be believed. Good suspension round that place is essential and the MY11 has that in abundance. There was no way I could go round with it in Race setting.


I have not forgot that set of BSs you have Chris, I have a half worn rear set and new fronts "in stock" at the moment.

The immediate difference on the 2010 car to the 2011 one was when you kindly took me out straight after going out in mine and I noticed how much more choppy the suspension was on the "older" car. The 2011 is much more planted on the "rough" stuff as borne out by my cross county A/B road jaunts, I could maintain a 15 to 20% speed improvement on the same roads compared to my 2010 car.

That first slight kink is a most definite "big balls" moment, I must admit to backing off to 150 or so, always a little fearful of what might be around the corner and the bottom dip come up plenty fast at that speed anyway, I have seen cars with all 4 wheels off there :nervous:


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Mouton45 said:


> Thats a good time around Spa on road tyres - I remember your not being sure about the 2011 but your write up seems to go pretty positive, if not more.
> 
> Eau Rouge - a beast but great to get right and the speed carried up the top if you get it right as you say will save you 5 sec plus.
> 
> Data logging on the race car shows the laptimes are made and lost at eau rouge. the rest is all balance and balls - car set up makes a huge difference around Spa. I've raced 6 times at Spa and set up is the be all and end all:thumbsup:


Thanks Mouton45, for one who has raced at Spa that is a compliment indeed :thumbsup: There are only 2 places IMHO that are tricky and where the most time can be has, as you have already stated Eau Rouge is one and Blanchimont the other.

The "problem" with the GT-R on Eau Rouge is that you are flat out in 4th on the downhill section after La Source and just shift to 5th 50-75 metres before the start of Eau Rouge, I have tried carrying 5th on the uphill section but with a quick "comfort" dab on the brake before the climb I found it better to use 4th at full throttle after the brake dab and shift to 5th after the first kerb clip.

I completely agree that suspension setup here is really important and I will be using as much negative camber as I can muster on the front for next month's MLR day along with reducing the toe in slightly, I will also take more care not to overheat the tyres as badly!


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

enshiu said:


> DO you have any modifications on this MY11 car?


Only pads and fluids, however, I will be re-fitting my Alcon Big Brake kit for next month at Spa.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Arcam said:


> Only pads and fluids, however, I will be re-fitting my Alcon Big Brake kit for next month at Spa.


Good man Eddie !! LOL, told you would get there in the end !! 

As for the suspension - just fit a different set of suspension to an older car (still less than buying a new car ! LOL)


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## Rami (Oct 4, 2009)

Nice review Arcam :thumbsup:

I'll be at Spa on the 23rd of May ... will you be attending the MLR trackday?


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Rami said:


> Nice review Arcam :thumbsup:
> 
> I'll be at Spa on the 23rd of May ... will you be attending the MLR trackday?


Thanks Rami!

I most certainly will be at Spa 

Looking forward to seeing you again in your R35 this time :thumbsup:


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## Robbie 733 (Feb 25, 2005)

Fab write up Eddie, and an excellent 3 laps round the 'Ring. Still can't believe we were going that fast and survived !!!!

Perhaps I should get a Blue Peter badge or something :chuckle:

Thanks for the ride, I think you encouraged me to give my car a few more beans round the track which has so far resulted in a destroyed front splitter and a sheared off wheel stud.

The bill is in the post !

Robbie

Oh and if you find a strange bit of plastic in the passenger footwell, it's of my sunglasses, hold onto it for me, and I'll get it in July :thumbsup:


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Robbie 733 said:


> Fab write up Eddie, and an excellent 3 laps round the 'Ring. Still can't believe we were going that fast and survived !!!!
> 
> Perhaps I should get a Blue Peter badge or something :chuckle:
> 
> ...


Thanks Robbie and you are most welcome to the PAX laps :thumbsup: I will sort you a badge for July!

Geoff enjoyed the PAX laps you gave him in your machine, I wanted him to experience the thrill that only you can delivery 

LOL on the splitter and wheel stud, hope it did not cause you an issue getting home :nervous: I will just pass your bill along .. 

Sorry, no luck on any "spare" plastic bits.


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