# This is ridiculous :-(



## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

My renewal just came through. I wonder if you can guess how much based on this:

R33 GTR Vspec
36 years old
8 years no claims (guaranteed)
NW London
Stage 1 mods
Theft claim in Sept 2005 (unrecovered)
Theft claim in July 2006 (recovered)

How much do you think?...............


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

.........£3,790!

That's with guaranteed no cliams (Elephant.co.uk)

The best other quote I've had is from Priviledge, which was £2,199, but with a £1,150 excess and no protected no-claims.

Adrian Flux say they can't quote me at all!

Any suggestions would be very welcome...


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## Booty-licious (Nov 8, 2001)

2.5k ?


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

Booty-licious said:


> 2.5k ?


That's pretty much bang on, if I don't want to protect my no claims. What do you think, should I pay the extra to protect the no-claims, or take a risk and go for a cheaper policy?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

have you tried A-plan, i'm in East London and am only 29 and i pay £780 protected

must be the theft issue, perhaps see if they will lower premium if you fit more security?

mook


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> have you tried A-plan, i'm in East London and am only 29 and i pay £780 protected
> 
> must be the theft issue, perhaps see if they will lower premium if you fit more security?
> 
> mook


It's already got a cat 1 and a tracker - I guess I could chain it to the ground when I'm not using it! (Seriously, I have considered it).

I'll try A Plan, thanks Mook.


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## Booty-licious (Nov 8, 2001)

Protect your no claims...always!

Try A-Plan...Im with them...great deal. Okay mines not a GTR...but does have the supercharger on it and I pay around the £600. I have 7yrs and no convictions..

give them a whirl!


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## gtrjay (Oct 25, 2007)

wow thats mental. make sure u ring the Thatcham branch mate for A-plan. First time i rang i got no quote, then i rang thatcham branch and they quoted me £1400 on gtr. and im only 23 with 5yrs no claims


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Egger Lawson/Competition Car Insurance. 01159 415255. Ask to speak to Steve Hallam.


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## Diadoraz10 (Jul 26, 2007)

Wow I didn't know insurance was that much in the UK! I only pay 600 USD a year here in germany unprotected and about 900 USD protected.......what is that 300 British Pounds?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Diadoraz10 said:


> Wow I didn't know insurance was that much in the UK! I only pay 600 USD a year here in germany unprotected and about 900 USD protected.......what is that 300 British Pounds?



do you insure your car with the mafia?!?!? don't the germans use Euro's. lol   

GBP is half the dollar value, so 1000usd is £500


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## Ropey (Jun 17, 2005)

I didn't realise until the other day that if don't protect your no claims then you only lose two years if you have a claim.

So if you have 8 years NCB and you don't protect it you'll still have 6 years if you make 1 claim, and most companies have 5 years as the max no claims anyway. So why pay silly money to protect it?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

AFAIK, 5 years is the max

if you've got "10 years" unprotected and claim, your no claims drops to 3 years

afaik

mook


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## Ropey (Jun 17, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> AFAIK, 5 years is the max
> 
> if you've got "10 years" unprotected and claim, your no claims drops to 3 years
> 
> ...


Good point, that sounds about right.


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## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)

weird, I got a renewal from a-plan, clearly stating I have 6 years No Claims? is it only 5 as far as the discount goes?


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Some do more than five. My last company did 9.


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

Mook is right. Most companies only take into account five years NCB, even if your proof says longer; so even though I've got 8 years, I'd drop to 3 if I claim without protection (despite only "losing" 2 years per claim). What I could really do with knowing is how that would effect the premium the following year, because there's a £1300 difference between the guaranteed and unprotected quote: i.e. if I claim and drop down to 3 years, will next year's premium increase by more than £1300 or not? If it wont then I might risk an unprotected policy for a year.

Oh BTW, Mook, I tried A Plan on your suggestion. They took my details on the phone yesterday, promised a call back in an hour and I haven't heard from them since. I'll try them again tomorrow, but I'm not too hopeful :-(

I'll try Moleman's suggestion next. I'll let you know how it pans out.


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## Ropey (Jun 17, 2005)

kjansch said:


> Mook is right. Most companies only take into account five years NCB, even if your proof says longer; so even though I've got 8 years, I'd drop to 3 if I claim without protection (despite only "losing" 2 years per claim). What I could really do with knowing is how that would effect the premium the following year, because there's a £1300 difference between the guaranteed and unprotected quote


You will still have the ??% discount for your 3 years no claims (probably around 40%) but your insurance company will still load your premium because you've had a claim.

AFAIK Your protected NCB just gives you a set discount. Every claim you have increases your premium well beyond that discount.

I've paid over £4000 in repairs over the past 6 years for damage to my car. My insurance is now £480 for a highly modified GTR. I know i've saved more than £7000 on increased insurance premiums over those 6 years as I still have 8 years NCB.


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

Ropey said:


> You will still have the ??% discount for your 3 years no claims (probably around 40%) but your insurance company will still load your premium because you've had a claim.
> 
> AFAIK Your protected NCB just gives you a set discount. Every claim you have increases your premium well beyond that discount.
> 
> I've paid over £4000 in repairs over the past 6 years for damage to my car. My insurance is now £480 for a highly modified GTR. I know i've saved more than £7000 on increased insurance premiums over those 6 years as I still have 8 years NCB.


I'me looking to insure my Skyline, just about modded everything on the engine, RB30, custom made exhaust manifolds Garrett GT3071Rs, Tomei 280 10.8 cams, Tomei cam wheels, ported gas flowed full race head, etc, etc, just spent a lot of money. Who are you insured with?? any suggestions who to try with a heavily modded R33 GTR, it is a U.K car, anyone do an agreed value or like for like if anything should happen! Most insurance companies on a case like this load you to the max, where shall I go?? with whom do you Guy's recommend. I'me sure there are a lot of people on here that have experienced this, so from experience, who are my best bet's??


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## Snowfiend (Jul 11, 2006)

kjansch said:


> Mook is right. Most companies only take into account five years NCB, even if your proof says longer; so even though I've got 8 years, I'd drop to 3 if I claim without protection (despite only "losing" 2 years per claim). What I could really do with knowing is how that would effect the premium the following year, because there's a £1300 difference between the guaranteed and unprotected quote: i.e. if I claim and drop down to 3 years, will next year's premium increase by more than £1300 or not? If it wont then I might risk an unprotected policy for a year.
> 
> Oh BTW, Mook, I tried A Plan on your suggestion. They took my details on the phone yesterday, promised a call back in an hour and I haven't heard from them since. I'll try them again tomorrow, but I'm not too hopeful :-(
> 
> I'll try Moleman's suggestion next. I'll let you know how it pans out.


Yep try Egger Lawson as Moleman suggested, I've just renewed with them for a fully agreed value policy....nice piece of mind and only a bit more expensive then A-Plan.

I think it's the theft claims that are putting it up, not your fault I know....

Agree with Claire too, make sur eyou get your NCB protected !!!


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

my mates got Protected NCB, and just insured having made a claim last year, and despite having full no claims, they "take in account" his fault accident

s'all bollocks IMHO

mook


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Thats a crazy price mate.

Im with adrian flux and i only pay £800 tpft with 5 years ncb.

Declaring mods and everything


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## Dave_R1001 (Nov 24, 2002)

Mookistar said:


> my mates got Protected NCB, and just insured having made a claim last year, and despite having full no claims, they "take in account" his fault accident
> 
> s'all bollocks IMHO
> 
> mook


Its common practice. I stuffed an evo into a ditch years ago and wrote it off. I was all protected but I still have to declare it as a £15k own fault accident so I still get my premium loaded a little from it.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Madden said:


> Im with adrian flux


More fool you.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

My Tro is insured with flux

apparently they DO cover you on touristfarhten (sp) days at the ring

god forbid claiming though

lol

mook


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Im with Aplan in the scooby and will be trying to get the gtr over there as well in the next coming months.

I tried to insure a Civic type r on my gtr insurance for a month and they wanted another £90 a month on top of my £80 and had to say it had mods to even get that price


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

*Update - A Plan*

So, having spoken to A Plan and given them all the details, at great lenght, I was told I'd get a call back in an hour. Three days later, having had no call, I decide to chase them: "We tried to call you on your mobile" - curiously I've had no missed calls or voicemails, which clearly means their excuse was code for "we can't quote, so didn't bother calling"

This is getting out of hand: it's curious that the so-called performance/modified/import specialists can't quote, but Direct Line can and Elephant can.

Waiting on a call back from Competition Car Insurance...

...I'll let you know what happens.

When the dust has settled, I've decided to put a table of the results together, with Co' names and contact details, as I guess people might find it useful


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

*Update - Competition Car Insurance*

Okay. I'm now beginning to feel persecuted, all because _someone else_ stole cars of mine in the past - if this was MY fault I'd understand it, and accept it with good grace, but just because some [email protected]^*wit stole things from me, _I'm_ having to pay through the nose for my insurance. 

It's not exactly fair is it? I pay for an insurance policy, I pay extra to "guarantee" my no-claims, some scumbag steals my car (not my fault, but Oh!, if fact, it seems it actually _is_ my fault after all), I get paid out on the insurance, but LO!, my premiums DOUBLE for three years! I could understand it if it was with the same insurance company, trying to recover some of the money they lost as a result of my claims, but no, it's OTHER F*&^ING COMPANIES that are charging me more!

BTW, in case you haven't already guessed, Competition Car Insurance can't quote either.

So, I'm left with a choice of £3,790 guaranteed with my current insurer (Elephant), or un-protected with Direct Line at £2,460.

(Privilege, which was the cheapest, now say that they can't cover imported cars by telephone quote, I have to do it online, but that they can't cover modified cars online, I have to get cover on the phone!)

I've also clarified the "What happens if I claim with un-protected no-claims situation" Direct Line said: 

"We only take into account 5 years' NCB, and if you claim you'll lose 2 years, taking you down to 3 years - the max discount is 65% (5 years) and is 50% (3 years)"

So, question: do I pay an extra £1,200 ish for a guarantee, or save £1,200 and risk a claim that will definitely increase my premium by 15% the following year? (My first existing claim was in Sept 2005, so that will have fallen outside the 3 years rule come next years' renewal. Therefore, if I claim this year I will still only have 2 claims, meaning the policy loading should be the same as it was this year.)

I've worked out a few figures:

My unprotected premium taking into account 65% discount is £2,460. If I gross that back up by 65% (£2,460/0.35) that's a premium before discount of £7,028.

So, if I now apply my _lower_ NCB of 50% to that (assuming I've lost 2 years because I claim), next year's premium will be £3,514. That's still lower that the guaranteed NCB premium from Elephant.

So, conclusion is: if I claim my premium will go up by less than the amount I've saved by have an unprotected policy this year, and if I don't claim I'll have saved circa £1,200 this year.

What do you think? Have I missed something? Am I being stupid?


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

So, I promised I'd let you know the results:

To remind you, this is the situation I'm trying to insure - 36 yoa, NW London, R33 GTR, stage 1 mods (declared), 5k per annum, theft claim in Sept 2005, theft claim in July 2006, 8 years NCB, no points/convictions.

*Guaranteed NCB policy quotes:*

Only Elephant.co.uk would offer guaranteed NCB: initially the quote was £3,790, but with a little moaning they knocked another £100 off this, and then also said that I could opt for "protected" NCB instead (i.e. 2 claims allowed), for £200 less, so eventual quote £3,490.

*Will only quote unprotected NCB policy:*

Direct Line: £2,460
Churchill: £2,990
Privilege: £2,199 - but, they then changed their mind and said they couldn't quote.

*Wouldn't quote at all:*

Nowich Union
Zurich
Ensleigh
Admiral
A Plan
Adrian Flux
Competition Car Insurance
Quoteline direct
Privilege

So, I've got until the 19th to decide, is there anyone else I should try before I decide between Direct Line and Elephant?


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

Try AON on a modern day classic. 579.79 fully comp, dont need your NCD, thats what I was paying. I've now gone and modded up my GTR and they say they cant quote because my car now is going to be too heavily modded that they will not insure me.


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

pupsi said:


> Try AON on a modern day classic. 579.79 fully comp, dont need your NCD, thats what I was paying. I've now gone and modded up my GTR and they say they cant quote because my car now is going to be too heavily modded that they will not insure me.


Do you know what level of mods they will quote on, and do you have their number?


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

kjansch said:


> Do you know what level of mods they will quote on, and do you have their number?


Don't know to what level they will go to with the Mod's, but here's the phone number 01384 552702, speak to, if I remember correctly, Marcus, may be wrong on the name but the number's right. Let me know how you get on.


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## Cornhoolio (Sep 26, 2005)

Try Performance Direct, this is who I use for all my imports etc. very competative.

I was:

32 GT-R approx £670 with mods, fully comp etc

STI v4 approx £535 with mods, as above

Worth a call


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

*The saga continues...*



pupsi said:


> Try AON on a modern day classic. 579.79 fully comp, dont need your NCD, thats what I was paying. I've now gone and modded up my GTR and they say they cant quote because my car now is going to be too heavily modded that they will not insure me.


AON can't quote (although, so far, these were the most helpful people I've spoken to - not at all salesy or "wide boy").

Waiting on call back from Performance Direct...


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

kjansch said:


> AON can't quote (although, so far, these were the most helpful people I've spoken to - not at all salesy or "wide boy").
> 
> Waiting on call back from Performance Direct...


Was it because the car is an import, any particular reason??


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

pupsi said:


> Was it because the car is an import, any particular reason??


No, they didn't have a problem with it being an import, or modified (it seemed); it was the two claims in the last three years that did it.

This seems to be the major problem: most companies are happy to cover imported, and modified cars, but God forbid that you've any kind of claims history! What are decribed as "at fault" claims are the particular problem, and it seems that the dinifition of "at fault" is nothing to do with whether the policy holder was the cause of the claim: having a car stolen is "your fault" in the eyes of the insurance industry. This is because there is no-one for them to reclaim the money from, as they would normally if there was another insurance company involved. This ALSO applies to being hit by an un-insured driver and having to claim for vandalism.

The lesson to be learned here is that unless the cost of repairs is huge, you shouldn't claim; you should pay for the work yourself, otherwise you'll face a huge premium loading for the the next three years, even though you have intact NCB - and the chances are that the loading will cost more than it would have to pay for the repairs yourself. Had I known then what I know now I would have paid for the repair cost of my stolen/recovered claim myself. Then I would only have had one claim in three years, which would be dropping off in September next year.

It seems that one claim in three years is ok; two and you face a heavy loading; three and your UNINSURABLE - even if those claims weren't actually your fault, as in my case.


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

So, I've just chased Performance Direct who have been conforming to the stereotype of salesy insurance brokers: I went through a long quote info discussion with them 3 days ago and was promised a call back in an hour - clearly no call back came and, having chased them thinking "they haven't bothered calling back because that can't quote", have had my impression of the insurance industry worsened even further, if that's possible, by their response: "yeh, we can't quote", click, brrrrrrrrrrrr...

So, the results are now:

*Guaranteed NCB policy quotes:*

Elephant.co.uk 

*Will only quote unprotected NCB policy:*

Direct Line (Polite & helpful)
Churchill (Polite)

*Wouldn't quote at all:*

Nowich Union (Polite)
Privilege (polite, but crap systems that lead to a Catch 22 situation: no modified car quotes available online - needs to be done on the phone - and no imported car quotes available on the phone - needs to be done online)
Zurich (Polite)
Ensleigh (Polite)
Admiral (Polite)
A Plan (Didn't bother calling back to tell me they couldn't quote)
Adrian Flux (Salesy, became unhelpful once they realised they couldn't quote)
Competition Car Insurance (Salesy)
Quoteline direct (Polite)
Privilege (Polite & helpful)
AON (Polite & very helpful - went out of their way to try & get a quote)
Performance Direct (Salesy, rude and unhelpful)

I'm aware that my comments about the helpfulness of these companies might not necessarily be their normal service, and other people may have had a much better experience of them (perhaps I've just spoken to the one unhelpful person there), but sadly the salesy, can't be bothered attitude seems all too common. 

I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth, having to deal with these companies, and so it comes as a real surprise when one of them goes out of their way to be helpful even if they can't quote (AON gets a big thumbs up in that regard).

So, I guess Directline it is.

Let's hope that next year is better.

PM me if you want the name & directline of the helpful guy at AON.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

kjansch said:


> Competition Car Insurance (Salesy)


Surprised you think they have a "can't be bothered" attitude.

Was it Steve that you spoke to? I've always found him very helpful over the last three years.


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

moleman said:


> Surprised you think they have a "can't be bothered" attitude.
> 
> Was it Steve that you spoke to? I've always found him very helpful over the last three years.


No, it wasn't Steve: perhaps I just got someone on a bad day, but I definately ended the call feeling annoyed - I got the distinct impression that the person I spoke to really couldn't be bothered and was infact annoyed that I had to chase them to find out that they couldn't quote.

Like I said, I hope that my experience isn't the norm. It's good to hear that it might not be.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Ah, OK. From what I gather mate, Steve is *the only person *there who will give you a quote on a GT-R. The other departments there do not deal with these cars. Call back, speak to the operator, ask to be put through to Steve Hallam.


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

Will do.


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## kjansch (May 8, 2005)

*RESULT!*

Well, it goes goes to show - posting on this forum is a _good_ idea! Jeremy from Keith Micheals insurance was following this thread and PM'd me as a result - he said that he thought he could do better than any of the co's I've spoken to so far, and today I've just taken a policy with all mods listed for £1,600. 

That's over £2,000 cheaper than my renewal from Elephant! I'll admit it's not protected NCB, but frankly, having done the figures, even if I claim this year next year's premium will go up by less than the £2,000 I've saved this year.

So, anyone who wants a good, quick, helpful service at really good rates, speak to Jeremy Pocock at Keith Micheals insurance.

PM me for his direct line.


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## Eikichi (Jul 25, 2006)

Kjansch, sorry if it's too late, but you could have asked Sky Insurance 020 8364 5500
When last year, elephant was quoting me £2,200 for renewal for my GTS25t they quoted me £850
Tell them, you got their details from other owners at Honda Revolutions (see if you can get a discount)


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