# GTR R35 Weight Loss Thread



## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

finally I realized that gtr is the car that need my attention.
one of the biggest issue I found is the weight of the car, imagine gtr weights 200kilos less.
so what is most heavy that can be replaced?


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## andrew186 (May 3, 2010)

the stock exhaust is pretty heavy


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

spec-v is running with titan exhaust, lighter wheels, carbon seats, ceramic brakes, rear seats less and a lot of carbon bits and all together is just 60 kilograms less so it's nearly nothing.....so what next?


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## anilj (Jan 30, 2010)

After attending Silverstone and hearing from the 'Father' of GT-R Mizuno-San, he made it absolutley clear that it is down to engineering equations and weight distribution and balance that makes the car the performance car that it is....the MY2012 is going to smash the sub 3 sec times and demonstrate how the product is evolving, something that most other high / supercar performance manufacturers cannot show in their figures.

So I guess losing weight won't simply make the car better and I am sure that other more knowledgeable member will embellish this point....:thumbsup:


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

I guess you could junk the air con system and all interior sound deadening too


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

in my opinion based on experience weight reduction should be the first step of tuning.....there is a lot of energy to safe....


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## anilj (Jan 30, 2010)

evo11 said:


> in my opinion based on experience weight reduction should be the first step of tuning.....there is a lot of energy to safe....


Not according to Mizuno-san...look at all the other cars that compete with the GT-R and nearly all are light-weight versions, but look at what the GT-R has achieved from a simple 3.8 V6! The GT-R is a heavy hitter to post those spectacular times and just shows how McLaren must rue their own tech as so far off the pace and perhaps Gordon Murray should be drafted back in....


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Change brakes to carbon ceramic - 7.5kgs rotating weight reduction source

Swap out Front seats to lightweight - possible to save 35kgs

Swap out original exhaust for Titanium aftermarket - save 9kgs

Change bonnet to CF - save 7kgs source

Lots of money for a 50-60 kgs saving.

To go any further will mean removal of body panels and replacement with CF.


As has been said, the GTR was designed around a heavy kerbside platform and reducing this will entail serious attention to suspension and aerodynamics to keep the car on the grey stuff.


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

ok, so why there is spec-v which is lighter?

why there GT2 RS which is faster in all ways compared to the GT2 ?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

evo11 said:


> ok, so why there is spec-v which is lighter?
> 
> why there GT2 RS which is faster in all ways compared to the GT2 ?


But why has the Spec V ring times never been made public? V-spec is a garage queen collectors item, not the hardcore track version of the R35.

GT2 RS is 70 kgs lighter than GT2, but runs different turbochargers, new intercoolers, new pistons and a new engine management system to run 1.6 bar of boost, over the GT2's 1.4bar

Means GT2 has 523 bhp, GT2 RS has 612 bhp, and just 8 or so seconds faster around the ring.

So it's not just about weight, it's about the extra power and how it's delivered. Otherwise Porsche would have just lightened the GT2 and been done with it.


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

gt2 rs runs same turbines, same pistons, conrods etc....
yes, coolers are from 997.2 and boost is higher, on the maha dyno you will find only 590PS, but still it's lighter so it stops better accelerate better too.

I go totally opposite with my present car which is more heavy than stock (liquid cooled intercoolers) but still I'm doing 100-300km/h in 16 sec (every day car) and I know with 150 kilos less I would do that in 15sec at least.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I suppose the point I was making is that the R35 is easy to add another 100 bhp or so relatively cheaply but to drop enough weight to achieve the same effect would cost considerably more and take a lot of tweaking to stabilise the suspension and aero.

That's why most of us up the power and improve the braking before reducing weight.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

charles charlie said:


> Swap out original exhaust for Titanium aftermarket - save 9kgs


Akrapovic cat-back Evolution system saves over 17kg compared to standard...


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

I think their are definite advantages to weight loss it's a pure scientific fact that it is easier to accelerate and stop a smaller mass, however as can been seen with most lightweight specials they sacrifice composure under heavy breaking and the lightness can mean they are skittish under high cornering forces, if you read many reviews for the MP4 12C many jurnos have commented on this, I think what Mizuno San has done is evaluate what is ultimately more beneficial and it would appear power hike and suspension tweaks offer the greater benefit alround, however if you only goal is 1/4mile time undoubtably shedding as much weight as possible will yield the best results, what it will be like on a track afterwards may be compromised from what it originally was though just my humble opinion.


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

sure it will cost more but image final effect of a car that weight 100 kilos less and has 100ps more 

ok so:

1.exhaust
2.rims
3.tires (non run flat)
4.seats
5.brakes

what else?


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## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

Carbon all round, rear wing, boot, doors, bonnet etc would cost a fortune though


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

evo11 said:


> sure it will cost more but image final effect of a car that weight 100 kilos less and has 100ps more
> 
> ok so:
> 
> ...


Your probably into CF panels after that lot, perhaps A/C deletion not sure how much that's worth though?


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

Bobel I would like to know what Collin Chapman would say about your theory


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

evo11 said:


> sure it will cost more but image final effect of a car that weight 100 kilos less and has 100ps more
> 
> ok so:
> 
> ...


It obviously depends upon whether you want an out and out track car, or a car which can be used as a daily driver too.

If the former, see my previous thread re body panels and interior strip out.

If the latter, there isnt much else you can strip out and keep the car civil.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

charles charlie said:


> But why has the Spec V ring times never been made public?


Because like some ring-times it didn't match the marketing message i.e. they couldn't make it much quicker than their claimed stock 2009 times.

Just like how they couldn't find any material improvement with the 2011 model lap-times with an extra 50PS and other upgrades, yes somehow find 6-8 secs with the 2012 upgrades. 

If Mizuno could drop 100kg from the GTR he would in a heart-beat, but he knows it's too expensive or would compromise it's all round ability. Every manufacturer in the world makes their cars faster by lightening them like Porsche, Ferrari Scuderia, Lambo SL, Honda NSX-R. Nissan may be able to push the laws of physics, but they cannot avoid them.

Don't forget that this is the GTR he called perfect and optimised in every way when launched, yet it's now had two major change cycles (2011,2012) and one small one (2010). Also the engine that 'couldn't be tuned' has now gained nearly 100bhp stock and is running 1000+bhp aftermarket.

There's a lot of 'marketing' in Mizuno's talks, despite his obviously amazing engineering talents in what he made.


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

good quality doors are available?
how about door interior panels?

so maybe there is something in the car that weight so much?
how about all noise isolation? no idea how you call it:shy:


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

evo11 said:


> good quality doors are available?
> how about door interior panels?
> 
> so maybe there is something in the car that weight so much?
> how about all noise isolation? no idea how you call it:shy:


Doors are aluminium so good luck saving much weight with expensive CF.

Take a look under the rear seats of a GTR to see how much sound deadening Nissan uses.

Like I've now said twice, weight reduction will be an expensive process beyond the first 50-60 kgs or so.


And Guy, thanks for answering my rhetorical question!

We all know why the Spec-V time was never published.....


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

Guy, great write up.

I also know there will be some changes in 2012 euro model and 2013 and in 2014 new model will come.

btw Guy, I'm GT3 RS/TT


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

evo11 said:


> Bobel I would like to know what Collin Chapman would say about your theory


Wouldn't call myself an expert by any stretch, but to the best of my knowledge Colin never produced a road car with 500+bhp and perhaps did not have the same challenges the gtr overcomes or was trying to produce the same outcome, I would never argue against the merits of lightweight cars of course their are benefits and if anything can't wait to see the outcome of your project however if there is one thing that is remarkable about the GTR it is it's composure under heavy braking, huge cornering forces and acceleration, I can't help but think this is greatly affected by the cars weight and more importantly it distribution, I have seen many weightloss stripout programs undertaken on cars and often just lobbing off weight particularlywithout distribution in mind does impact the cars composure, however you appear to have undertaken these projects before yourself so I'll bow to your superior knowledge as said before just my humble opinion.:thumbsup:


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

charles charlie said:


> We all know why the Spec-V time was never published.....


They've never said it, nor would they admit it, but when you consider how they shouted about every single lap attempt on the stock car and every time it cut even a fraction of a second of the lap, you know if they'd cut a significantly better time with the SpecV it'd be everywhere! It'd bet it was faster, but by a small amount and they therefore felt they couldn't release that, as it wouldn't work from a marketing perspective.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

evo11 said:


> btw Guy, I'm GT3 RS/TT


From 6Speed?


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

yes Guy.

for sure 2011 gtr is a huge step compared to the previous r35.

so you all want to tell me 2009 spec-v is worth nothing? there is still one new for sale in Germany...


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

evo11 said:


> so you all want to tell me 2009 spec-v is worth nothing? there is still one new for sale in Germany...


Not sure where you read that any of us said that the Spec-V is worth nothing....

What I certainly said was that the Spec-V was a limited run garage queen which would be unlikely to see any track.

It's value comes from it's scarcity, not it's ability.


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

did someone say weight loss :smokin:


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

Matt, not bad !!! how much kilos did you safe?


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

charles charlie said:


> It's value comes from it's scarcity, not it's ability.


Spot-on. I doubt there's a person on here who wouldn't like to rollup at a GTR meet in the only UK SpecV.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

evo11 said:


> Matt, not bad !!! how much kilos did you safe?


remove the drivers airbag also saves you 9kgs but, only on track I think.

remove the gearbox mount and replace with titanium one will save 100 kgs I think.

after market suspension?


these are heavy parts: 

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200710/2009-nissan-gt-r-75_800x0w.jpg

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200710/2009-nissan-gt-r-74_800x0w.jpg

also the engine parts like the intake and turbo tubes are moulded metal and titanium is way lighter 20kgs off?

intercooler is heavy


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## SNEL (Mar 9, 2008)

Matt I sort of like that :thumbsup:

I like my 2009 cus it's not perfect! It's snatchy in the mornings when it's cold and not always the smoothest drive, but hey I didn't want a BMW!

I choose a porsche GT3 because of its character--- a Carrera would have been a better car!

Please don't sanitise the GTR EVER!!! When I buy the next generation I hope it's just as bad

After 16000 miles decat and ecotek it's absolutely flying and I sometimes still come close to crapping my pants. Every drive is special. What more could you want? OK MORE POWER.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

what about lose your own weight (10kgs) ahaah


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm 68kilos so with less would be difficult to hold the steering wheel tide 

I don't think touching main suspension components would be good idea.
I think AMS did a lot of weight loss on gtr's but I believe details are top secret.


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

evo11 said:


> Matt, not bad !!! how much kilos did you safe?


cheers mate

saved 56kg in the seats

and about a further 30kg in other bits

makes for one very loud cabin

94db @2000rpm in 6th gear


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

professor matt said:


> cheers mate
> 
> saved 56kg in the seats
> 
> ...



hahahaha thats the funniest pic ive seen today


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## evo11 (Nov 6, 2011)

thanks for info 

but still not much.
can you feel any difference beside the noise?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

professor matt said:


> cheers mate
> 
> saved 56kg in the seats
> 
> ...


Hmm, seems a bit extreme to lose only 30kg... 
And what about the extra weight of the intercom system? 

One of the joys of the GT-R to me, is its multi-use nature, so I wouldn't contemplate those sort of extreme measures, but full marks to you for doing so!


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> Akrapovic cat-back Evolution system saves over 17kg compared to standard...


IIRC, it's about an 11KG saving for the Titan cat-back & a further 5kg saving for the Titan "Y" pipe so a full Titan system saves 16kg over OEM. Ben should be able to confirm the exact numbers.

As for the original point, it's been stated many times that the GT-R is built around it's weight & the distribution of the weight is a key factor. Trimming a few kg's here & there is no bad thing but the dynamics of the car would be comprimised if you lopped significant weight from the car.


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

Benji Linney GTC said:


> hahahaha thats the funniest pic ive seen today


none of this new midlife crisis gtr owners here


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

David.Yu said:


> Hmm, seems a bit extreme to lose only 30kg...
> And what about the extra weight of the intercom system?
> 
> One of the joys of the GT-R to me, is its multi-use nature, so I wouldn't contemplate those sort of extreme measures, but full marks to you for doing so!


different strokes etc..etc..

i just find the new gtr too refined david.

its my toy and im going to get the most out of it in my ownership,new 4" prototype GTC system is getting the jigs made up on my car tomorrow

but with one difference.... mine has been spec'd with no silencers :smokin:


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## B27il (Oct 29, 2011)

professor matt said:


> different strokes etc..etc..
> 
> i just find the new gtr too refined david.
> 
> ...


Holly smoke, what db?
No silencer on no sound deadening car?
Are you sure ?
I bet Cant use it as DD


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

yeah i suppose it will be a bit nuts 

the gtr is my company car so it is my daily drive 

30mile round trip everyday


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

evo11 said:


> thanks for info
> 
> but still not much.
> can you feel any difference beside the noise?


86kg is a massive difference 

the car feels quicker because its louder... does it make it quicker??? 

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


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## Protegimus (Aug 31, 2011)

Personally, I'd have kept the interior and lost the passenger; looks around the same potential gain to me 

On a serious note balanced weightloss through better seats, a carbon roof and titanium exhaust must have been easily attainable as standard within the purchase price of a GT-R.
Shortening of overhangs/reduction of overall height wouldn't go amiss - that transmission tunnel raising the cabin floor is huge.

Protegimus


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Protegimus said:


> Personally, I'd have kept the interior and lost the passenger; looks around the same potential gain to me
> 
> On a serious note balanced weightloss through better seats, a carbon roof and titanium exhaust must have been easily attainable as standard within the purchase price of a GT-R.
> Shortening of overhangs/reduction of overall height wouldn't go amiss - that transmission tunnel raising the cabin floor is huge.
> ...


that is enough to lose 50kgs remove the airbags will save you another 15kgs I think.


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## PETERJH (Nov 14, 2010)

The first thing that I would lose from the interior is the stereo.I never use it as I prefer to listen to the engine.:thumbsup:


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

mate the vr38 is nothing,

cant beat a Rb26 on full chat:thumbsup:


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