# GTR versus Audi RS5



## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

I've got an RS5 on order for Oct to replace my GTR.

Has anyone driven an RS5 - I'm a little nervous that making bad decision.

My reasoning is that GTR occasionally great but RS5 will be consistently good.

GTR will steamroller the RS5 for dry road performance but the rest of the time?

The RS5 should be better in the wet, will have better ride and much better engine/exhaust note - the soul that the GTR lacks.

I'm expecting the Audi to feel more 'engineered' - at times the GTR sounds unnervingly clanky which has me nervously looking in the mirror for breakaway compenents. Perhaps I'm being too mechanically sympathetic but I can't believe my car will last the three yr warranty period without major claim - and my car probably has a gentler life compared with the rest of you.

And the clincher was 4 decent seats versus the GTR's 2 3/4.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

It's a nice alternative as far as Audi goes but the A5 type/range is vast and they are everywhere. Not enough individuality with them in my opinion.

Out of interest, why do you think that the Audi will handle better in the wet?


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

Interesting thoughts. Before I switched from my RS4 (B7) to the GTR, I had thought about waiting for the RS5, as it seemed a logical next choice. But, my RS4 was approaching the end of its warranty period and at that time the RS5 was still a twinkle in Audi's eye, so I plumped for the GTR. My decision was also swayed by the likes of the Top Gear review, which made clear that the GTR was a new benchmark at the price.

Looking back I'm so glad I bought the GTR. Yes it has a few nuances which can be disconcerting at first (the noises etc), but I've found I've got used to them and don't give them a second though now. The car seems to me to get better if you drive it reasonably enthusiastically. I wouldn't class myself as a hard driver (my car's only been on a track once and that was CATDT day which isn't really hard track work), but equally I don't drive it like it's made of balsa wood either.

I reckon the RS5 will feel more solidly engineered, but I think the perfomance will be disappointing after a GTR and that you may get bored quickly. I forget which rag it was, but a review a few months back suggested it had trouble losing an s4. I'd say that's worrying, if it's performance you're after.

Don't get me wrong - I think the RS5 is a desirable car, but all things are relative and I'm not sure I could face the drop in performance, personally.

That's the big problem with the GTR - it's such a lot of car for the money that it leaves you wondering where to go next.


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## sin (Dec 3, 2007)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Out of interest, why do you think that the Audi will handle better in the wet?


I like audi's currently own an A4 3.0TDi S-Line Quattro (arguably the best day to day car i've owned all things considered), but the traction (i know its different from handling) is sublime in the wet.

I Pressume theres no chance of a test drive.


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

Tazz

I like the anonymity of the Audi (I'm getting Daytona Grey). The GTR flash enough to embarrass the kids when I drop them off at school.

Don't you find the GTR a bit edgy in the wet? It's absolutely sensational in the dry but I never feel entirely comfortable driving fast when roads wets/greasy. I like to think it's the chassis too stiff or tyres but maybe I'm just a crap driver.


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

I see that a German Auto mag has timed the RS5 0 to 100km/h in 4.3 secs and 0 to 200 km/h in 15.6 secs (I think Audi claim 15.5 secs).

GTR will be about 3.8 and 13 secs?

So yes I agree the major risk!

But most of my driving on county roads so hoping the better ride plus engine/exhaust note more than compensate.

On the right roads the GTR clearly unbeatable for the money.


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

I it true that RS4 / RS5 are much thirstier than the GTR ? I average 23mpg in the GTR which is pretty good considering.


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## mattl1983 (Jul 18, 2008)

interesting thread as I have been looking at GTR's for a while and also really like the RS5. Like the E92 M3 as well but think the rs5 will be a bit rarer so preferrable for me.

I love the GTR and am so close to buying (used) but some of the stories just really put me off - tyre prices and pedestrian safety system to name a few.

I have an evo 8 FQ400 at the moment which is purely a weekend car and really want something a bit more refined next. I know the GTR is in a different class to evo's and scooby's.

i couldnt afford a new RS5 and wouldnt buy new either, but will definitely try to test drive one in November when they are released. Will then compare to a GTR which I'm going to test drive in a few weeks.

Other thing on mind as above is that I would only use either car at weekends which I think is perfect for the GTR, but the RS5 like the M3 seems a bit more everyday.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Yes, just ask the Ferrari 430, Lambo, Porsche brigade about the smiles for your miles !

Don’t get me wrong I quite like the Audi S5 (would never consider a BMW) 

It looks good, but not as good as the GTR, it performs well, but not as well as the GTR, the Audi’s a 2 a penny, GTR’s are rare, your choice tho!


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

RS5...isn´t this the car that rivals a M3....it will never be tested against a Lambo or 911....why step down so much and even pay more money:nervous:


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

imattersuk said:


> I it true that RS4 / RS5 are much thirstier than the GTR ? I average 23mpg in the GTR which is pretty good considering.


In a word, no. I got better economy from my RS4 than I do from the GTR. Could get 25-30 mpg on easy motorway run in the RS4 but can't seem to get this in the GTR.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

PSC said:


> Tazz
> 
> I like the anonymity of the Audi (I'm getting Daytona Grey). The GTR flash enough to embarrass the kids when I drop them off at school.
> 
> Don't you find the GTR a bit edgy in the wet? It's absolutely sensational in the dry but I never feel entirely comfortable driving fast when roads wets/greasy. I like to think it's the chassis too stiff or tyres but maybe I'm just a crap driver.


I can understand your desire for anonimity, I like to be "under the radar" as well so the GTR probably shouldn't have been my first choice. I tend not to acknowledge the fact that people are looking and pointing at my car when I'm driving as sometimes I don't feel like I should own such a car.

The GTR is more than a bit edgy in the wet, you just can't tell what it's going to do. Sometimes it copes well and corrects, other times it just lets go, which, as you probably well know is more than a bit unnerving. Mine tends to stay in on wet days.

I looked into getting the A5 3.0 TDI so that I'd got a bit of performance and it could've been used as my work car/daily driver but for what it was going to cost it was too much of a compromise. I like Audi's but I think they're a bit like Land Rover in that they are bit too much money for what they are and are mainly sold on an inflated reputation. Having said that, I'd probably still have one.

All the best. :thumbsup:


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## rblvjenkins (Mar 8, 2008)

I think you'd regret it big time. The Audi is fine, but not even in the same league as the GTR.

Just get a Y-pipe for noise, and if you're worried about warranty just stick the original part back on (you don't need to though) for servicing etc.

As for handling in the wet, the GTR is excellent. You may well not be pushing it hard enough!


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## Marcus62 (Sep 14, 2009)

I think the only area they will compete on is price, the RS5 is a different type of car and I really don't think a direct comparison is valid, but I understand your dilemma. I have taken a temporary step from an RS4 that was getting close to the end of its' warranty, into an A5 3.0tdi as a daily driver. I was waiting for the RS5, but what I've read about the car has caused me to reconsider (that's why I'm on this board) because it 'sounds' less involving than the RS4 and I would consider that to be a backward step. All that siad, I have got used to averaging almost 450 miles to a tankfull, so not sure where I'll go from here!


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Out of interest, waht response was you expecting from the GTR forum lol, perhaps try audi-sport.net for another appraisal


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

RS5 is a great car for allround, but more fake then real quality in the detail.

As all high end Audis the RS5 will have the same problems against its rivals, it can only dominate in the all round factors, but not in the details . . . neverless being largely above average in every aspect.

The GTR was made to kill and it does. Has never ending tuning potentials that will increase the capabilites with no ends. Of course you need the budget, so do all performance cars priced in that category thought.

The RS5 can shine with probably the best allround package a coupe in that performance class can offer, but still:
- the interior is not better then a Lexus, Infiniti or Benz, even a bit below
- Handling is just average, the stupid compromise between supercar and Golf security.
- Reliability is just About average, as with all high end Audis.
- Reliability concerns also count for the mechanics.
- Styling is great, but as eveyone has one, especially thoses with the 18T engine, makes you wonder why you pay all that money for a car, that can be bought with a Ford Fiesta engine, having the same interior then the top model??
ex . . .

The GTRs have allways been the underdogs, especially the old ones. The aftermarket industry that stands behind the GTRs since 21years now, can`t be matched by many, especially not by anything related to VW/Audi . . .different league.

Thought would love an RS5 convertible as a second car.:thumbsup:


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

Trouble with the M3 is lousy traction on wet/greasy roads. In the UK we have such road conditions most of the year. Great engine though.

Great point - why is the GTR tested versus Lambos etc when natural price rivals are the M3 and RS5. 

If I had a more accommodating wife/bank manager I would much prefer an Aston V12 Vantage (a car with real character) or Porsche GT3 - no contest.

Infact about the only exotica I would decline would be the 911 Turbo which has even less character than the GTR.

I think the GTR is a fantastic car but this is qualified by 'for the money'. I've never come close to 'loving it' because it's a bit soulless. 

I've had an Aston N400 - a dinasaur by comparison but true love!


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

mickv said:


> In a word, no. I got better economy from my RS4 than I do from the GTR. Could get 25-30 mpg on easy motorway run in the RS4 but can't seem to get this in the GTR.


That's what I was thinking. Audi's are nothing special. A German friend said they are the 'German Ford'. They are stuffed full of parts built to tender on the mass market which is certainly of lower quality than the few companies that still completely engineer their own cars (Honda, Ferrari etc.). So sure if you want the four ring-pieces on the front of the bonnet you will be happy assured that in suburbia those that don't know will respect you, sadly enthusiasts will just think 'yet another Audi, sigh'. Ditching a GTR for an Audi with the exception of a tuned R8 is liking swapping a chocolate bar for a turd.


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## donnynsc (Mar 13, 2010)

The only feature of RS5 which I think is better than a GTR would be 2 roomier rear seats, well, at least when compared to a GTR.


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## Varsity (Oct 24, 2009)

IMHO you will regret it.

Just look at all the problems the B7 RS4 had with low BHP.

The RS5 is good looking but how does it differnto the 2.0t or 2.7tdi ot the outside?

It's just not a GTR.


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## Marcus62 (Sep 14, 2009)

AJFleming said:


> That's what I was thinking. Audi's are nothing special. A German friend said they are the 'German Ford'. They are stuffed full of parts built to tender on the mass market which is certainly of lower quality than the few companies that still completely engineer their own cars (Honda, Ferrari etc.). So sure if you want the four ring-pieces on the front of the bonnet you will be happy assured that in suburbia those that don't know will respect you, sadly enthusiasts will just think 'yet another Audi, sigh'. Ditching a GTR for an Audi with the exception of a tuned R8 is liking swapping a chocolate bar for a turd.


Most cars these days share common parts, Aston's carry Ford/Volvo switchgear, but it wouldn't put me off a DBS. Audi's are decent, well made cars, occasionally very good in the case of B7 RS4, but their main appeal (to me and I guess a lot of owners) is that they're not so in your face as certain other marques. The fact that Audi's are generally understated is a major reason for buying one (for those that do) and Audi work hard to maintain that image. I agree with you that the GTR and RS5 are quite different cars, (chocolate and turds) I don't think they directly compete and I'm certain thatneither manufacturer targetted the other, so making a choice between the two is very tough.


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## ozren (Apr 12, 2009)

I've never driven the RS5, but did drive S5 on several occasions. I am sure RS5 is better than the completely lackluster S5, but I can't believe it can come anywhere close to GT-R - the gap is just too big to close.

I find the Audis in general very boring to look at, heavily over-priced and lacking that "oh yeah baby!" factor when driving them (R8 being the sole exception)... Funny to call GT-R soulless when considering your chosen alternative!

Better mpg is for sure the last thing I'd look for in the car with 400+ bhp, but it seems to be very important to many here - something which i find unfathomable.

O


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

I personally wouldn't bother and I own an A5 (Its going as soon as I get back to the UK). I really cant see where I'm going to go after the GT-R, I guess it'll have to be another GT-R, although the way the Yen is going I can't see the next one being such good value.


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

_Funny to call GT-R soulless when considering your chosen alternative!_


Great cars have soul and imo this is derived mainly from the engine. Ferrari, Astons, Lambos have this in abundance.

Porsche have lost the plot aside from GT3 range.

The M3 engine more fun to exploit than the GTR's. I have the Y tube but still too much like a turbine. I'm hoping that the RS5 engine even more charismatic than the M3's - will let you know in two months.

Aside from drop in performance (and 0 to 200km in 15.5 secs still pretty good) I'm concerned about steering feedback. I would rate feedback as second in my list of qualities that make up a great car. I'd rate the GTR as average for the Class (not a patch on a GT3RS) but the RS5 has been panned by the Press for poor steering feedback. I've gone for the Dynamic Steering option which will hopefully improve matters.


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## Bungle (Aug 10, 2010)

The A5/S5/RS5 are pretty looking cars - more so than than the BMW 3-series, but they are 2 a penny - every other car on the road nowadays is an Audi with it's daytime LED running lights. Audi must be literally throwing these cars of the production line. IMO, they just look so repmobile common now, gone are the days you saw a hot Audi and lusted after it. The RS models just don't look the money, i considered a used RS6 Avant, but tbh the A6 'Allroad' parked next to it looked better! I have driven the GTR, and i will bet my arse the RS5 will not be a patch on it - anyone going from a GTR to a RS5 will not last 6 months before selling the RS5 for a £20k loss and either being back in the GTR or similar (Next M5 maybe?)

I would see the RS5 as a 'downgrade' to the GTR you are used to. The GTR looks every penny of it's £60k r.r.p. and goes like a £100k+ car. The RS5 looks £40k and probably doesn't go as well as an M3.

Obviously all imo


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## anilj (Jan 30, 2010)

I was the laughing stock as sold my E93 M3 for a Datsun!!! But guess what happened, I have systematically changed their views and prejudices forever...for me the GT-R has given me back that 'smile' factor and most importantly the 'wow' factor as I have never been given so many Thumbsup and so many camera pics.....just gets better everytime I drive the beast..but most importantly I have exclusivity on the road that is crammed with various M3, A5, 911 etc etc....

I have to add that it will take something really special to get me out of the motor, and I do hope that the RS5 lives upto its hype, but what it gains from 'German' engineering, it will lose that exclusivity on the road and suddenly you will be amongst the masses again...are you really ready for this experience....good luck buddy

Peace

AJ:nervous:


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## Karls (Jul 12, 2010)

I have only had my GT-R approx 3 weeks, before this it was a B7 RS4. My RS4 had A full Milltek with de-cat and a ported inlet manifold with custom MRC remap, Sachs Performance clutch and Big Brembo brake conversion plus Hotchkis ARB's which turned it into a beast of a car. However, I had to use the RS the other day to show to a potential buyer and I didn't enjoy driving it, I just wanted to get back in the GT-R! The difference between the two is night and day.

I read the Evo Mag review of the RS5 and they said it felt uninvolving and not as good as the RS4. I was considering the RS5 as a follow on from the 4 but once I'd test driven the GT-R it was a no- brainer.


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## ScottyB (Jun 9, 2009)

How about throwing this one into the mix.............

Get an RS6 Avant second hand, debadge it and give it to DTM to be "played with" there is a video somewhere of it pulling away easily from a standard GTR.

You then have loads of seats and you can shove the dog in the boot, you will look like a sales rep until some daft boy racer wants a go then you can smoke him....

The ultimate sleeper!


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## hairyaardvark (Feb 7, 2010)

Despite the v8 engine, I found my old rs4 a frankly dull drive, which is why it lasted about 6 months. I hope for your sake that the rs5 is better - but that isn't what the reviews are saying .......


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

ScottyB said:


> How about throwing this one into the mix.............
> 
> Get an RS6 Avant second hand, debadge it and give it to DTM to be "played with" there is a video somewhere of it pulling away easily from a standard GTR.
> 
> ...


No point - my car when standard ate and beat a Audi R8 V8, an Audi R8 V10 and RS 4 + RS 6, and now it just leaves them for dead !!!


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## ScottyB (Jun 9, 2009)

Steve said:


> No point - my car when standard ate and beat a Audi R8 V8, an Audi R8 V10 and RS 4 + RS 6, and now it just leaves them for dead !!!


My apologies Steve i meant MTM and not DTM, these bloody German tuning companies they all sound the same.......

The video i was struggling to find here - YouTube - m5boarddotcom's Channel

The GTR makes a cracking start as always but bear in mind that the RS6 weighs what 2200 kgs or there abouts.

I would love to see the same test against a COBB tunes GTR to see how big the gap would be before/if the RS 6 MTM could claw it back.

MTM Performance upgrade AUDI RS6 742 hp (546 kW) quattro incl. middle and rear silencer, airfilter - Audi RS6 C6 (5,0 TFSI 426 kW (580 hp) Quattro)

742 bhp and 840 Nm and a V Max at above 340 kph (If you fit special tyres)

A very nice sleeper for the dad who needs loads of space for the rug rats and wants to have the worlds fastest Labrador pressed against the back window 

Oh and they do an upgrade for the new RS5 as well.....lol only up to 450bhp at the moment - Audi RS5 (4,2 V8 331 kW (450hp) quattro) Tuning - MTM Product overview

You got to love the Germans when it comes to car tuning, bt the GTR still holds a special place in my heart.

Imagine a Lambo Superleggera (same engine as the RS6) with the 742bhp MTM tune....Now that would take some beating, if you could get the clutch and diff to cope with all the extra power :thumbsup:

Right time to stop dreaming i need to get back to work.....


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

Some interesting feedback!

My interpretation of Press Comment not as negative as most of you. 

Accepted the most damming - Evo's claim that the RS5 could not gain on an S4. The RS5 should run 0 to 100mph under 10 secs which is still Aston Vantage fast and marginally quicker than an M3. An S4 is circa 13 -14 secs? So agree strange but extenuating circumstances?

But in day to day driving Top Gear claimed the RS5 had 'God's own cheat code for the laws of physics'. I expect the RS5 to be faster and a nicer drive on the wet, greasy, bumpy roads that I drive most of the time.

Incidently I dug out Autocars Road Test of the GTR last night. The GTR had a *Dry* Circuit time of 1min 10 secs versus R8 of 1 min 13.5 secs.

But on the *Wet* Circuit the GTR was 1 min 14.2 secs versus the R8's 1 min 8.2 secs.

The Press love 'Thrill Cars' that offer instant hit and the GTR offers plenty of up front thrills. The RS5 is a different sort of car designed to cover all moods and road conditions. If the Press test the two together I'd expect the GTR to win but a long term test over an English winter......?


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## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

PSC

Come on dude - the R8 suddenly became 5-6 seconds faster in the wet than its dry track time???? I don't know where you get those figures from but that's just retarded imho


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

PSC said:


> I've got an RS5 on order for Oct to replace my GTR.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, engine note of a stock GTR makes no justice to the car. 
Get a Y-pipe and all that changes, and that will only cost you around 800 euros.
And it wont void your warranty.

With Y-pipe GTR sounds better than RS5, tested that in RL. Both inside the car and outside as well.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

ScottyB said:


> Imagine a Lambo Superleggera (same engine as the RS6) with the 742bhp MTM tune....Now that would take some beating, if you could get the clutch and diff to cope with all the extra power :thumbsup:


Not the same engine


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

+ all depends on who is driving what - as we saw last night on 5th Gear with Tiff not being able to select reverse on the GTR - what a muppet !


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## Varsity (Oct 24, 2009)

GTR..............swordfish.

RS6................whale.


The end!


Doesn't matter what tune or how big, how often do you carry 4 passengers when travelling flat out? It's not an argument that sits, my 3.0l TDi A6 will do 155 5 up, big deal.

In real life can you really see an RS6 kickn' a GTR on a circuit? Or an RS5 for that.

It comes down to what you want, like and need. It's all personal and that's good.


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

imattersuk said:


> I it true that RS4 / RS5 are much thirstier than the GTR ? I average 23mpg in the GTR which is pretty good considering.


!!!!!!!!!!!!! 23mpg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My average for the tank of fuel I'm on at the moment is 10.7mpg!! How the hell do you average 23mpg?????????????????


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

christer said:


> PSC
> 
> Come on dude - the R8 suddenly became 5-6 seconds faster in the wet than its dry track time???? I don't know where you get those figures from but that's just retarded imho


Different length circuits for wet and dry tracks. See Autocar 6th May 2009 re their full road test of GTR. The figures stand!


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

Kurgan said:


> I agree, engine note of a stock GTR makes no justice to the car.
> Get a Y-pipe and all that changes, and that will only cost you around 800 euros.
> And it wont void your warranty.
> 
> With Y-pipe GTR sounds better than RS5, tested that in RL. Both inside the car and outside as well.



I've got the Y pipe which is improvement although does anyone else have boom at 75mph/2K rpm?

_With Y-pipe GTR sounds better than RS5, tested that in RL_

What is R/L?

I know subjective but I find my GTR noisy, turbine smooth but not musical like a high reving GT3 or M3. The RS5 revs to 8500rpm.


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## manjit (Dec 17, 2009)

turbobungle said:


> !!!!!!!!!!!!! 23mpg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My average for the tank of fuel I'm on at the moment is 10.7mpg!! How the hell do you average 23mpg?????????????????


Rubbish driving mate, im averaging 10.5mpg :flame: on Fire bloody expensive though :thumbsup:


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

TAZZMAXX said:


> It's a nice alternative as far as Audi goes but the A5 type/range is vast and they are everywhere. Not enough individuality with them in my opinion.
> 
> Out of interest, why do you think that the Audi will handle better in the wet?


 I can tell you *IT WILL NOT ANYWHERE* I have driven the RS5 and owned the B7 RS4 2007 ordered in may,the Last of them in fact one of the last imported.
The M3 handles better than both, the GTR *FLATTENS them both dry or wet*, the only advantage you will have is 4 seats and thats it, sorry mate.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

JohnE90M3 said:


> I can tell you *IT WILL NOT ANYWHERE* I have driven the RS5 and owned the B7 RS4 2007 ordered in may,the Last of them in fact one of the last imported.
> The M3 handles better than both, the GTR *FLATTENS them both dry or wet*, the only advantage you will have is 4 seats and thats it, sorry mate.


John, I think maybe you're getting me confused with the OP. I'm keeping the GTR, he's getting the Audi. Maybe I've read your post wrong but it looks like it's addressed to me.:thumbsup:


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

TAZZMAXX said:


> John, I think maybe you're getting me confused with the OP. I'm keeping the GTR, he's getting the Audi. Maybe I've read your post wrong but it looks like it's addressed to me.:thumbsup:


 Was not referring to you mate, just saying that I had owned this and driven that, GTR wins all hands down IMO. Even though I still own the E90 M3 saloon.:nervous:


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

PSC said:


> I've got the Y pipe which is improvement although does anyone else have boom at 75mph/2K rpm?
> 
> _With Y-pipe GTR sounds better than RS5, tested that in RL_
> 
> ...


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

JohnE90M3 said:


> I can tell you *IT WILL NOT ANYWHERE* I have driven the RS5 and owned the B7 RS4 2007 ordered in may,the Last of them in fact one of the last imported.
> The M3 handles better than both, the GTR *FLATTENS them both dry or wet*, the only advantage you will have is 4 seats and thats it, sorry mate.


Where did you drive the RS5 - I'm not aware of any UK cars available for test drives.

Re-reading the Autocar Road Test they describe the GTR as a handful in the wet. And one of the Press criticisms of the RS5 is that too easy to drive fast!


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

PSC said:


> Where did you drive the RS5 - I'm not aware of any UK cars available for test drives.
> 
> Re-reading the Autocar Road Test they describe the GTR as a handful in the wet. And one of the Press criticisms of the RS5 is that too easy to drive fast!


Drove it in spain. I do get to drive "most" of the latest main stream cars" before others.:thumbsup:


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

PSC said:


> Where did you drive the RS5 - I'm not aware of any UK cars available for test drives.
> 
> Re-reading the Autocar Road Test they describe the GTR as a handful in the wet. And one of the Press criticisms of the RS5 is that too easy to drive fast!


 Read this review; and note the last para;


Audi RS5 review


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

PSC said:


> Re-reading the Autocar Road Test they describe the GTR as a handful in the wet. And one of the Press criticisms of the RS5 is that too easy to drive fast!


500bhp in the wet is a handful!! Who would have thought that lol :thumbsup:


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

PSC said:


> Where did you drive the RS5 - I'm not aware of any UK cars available for test drives.
> 
> Re-reading the Autocar Road Test they describe the GTR as a handful in the wet. And one of the Press criticisms of the RS5 is that too easy to drive fast!


 Not wanting you to be swayed one way or the other PSC, but in the wet the RS4 was a hand full on some B roads as is my M3 E90, but you drive according to conditions till the roads dry and then have your fun.
You will find at first the RS5 to be all you wanted if you need as I do at the moment 4 seats, but as I did with the RS4 it quickly becomes boring and soulless and every day, I soon hated mine and got shot, have a long test drive first.:thumbsup:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

If Nissan had made the traction control more aggresive then they would have been critisised for taking away the feel of the car. if its a handful in the wet then perhaps its could be described as more of a drivers car.


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks John. The Evo report was the most negative of all the reviews I've read.

I have no doubt that on a dry smooth road the GTR significantly better. My understanding is that the RS5 will be better on wet, greasy roads.

Add on superior ride and engine plus four seats and the RS5 shades it as a car to live with.

The point I'm trying to make is that, say with a GT3 RS, I'm happy to sacrifice ride quality and tyre roar because the overall driving experience so rewarding - sensational engine, pin sharp steering, handling balance.

The GTR is a one trick pony - sensationally fast in the dry but that is the only box that scores 10/10.

But maybe I'm just getting old and too concerned with not shaking out my dentures.


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

MIKEGTR said:


> 500bhp in the wet is a handful!! Who would have thought that lol :thumbsup:


Except the R8 also has 500bhp and was 6 secs quicker!


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

I personaly cannot see how a RWD car can be quicker than a like for like bhp 4wd car in the wet, just look at the early 80's rallying


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

This RS5 review is interesting, torque comes in late and economy is well, watch it.YouTube - Testing the Audi RS5

It is sub-titled :thumbsup:


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

MIKEGTR said:


> I personaly cannot see how a RWD car can be quicker than a like for like bhp 4wd car in the wet, just look at the early 80's rallying


Mike my reply to that is "who drives near the limit" in the wet?.
Driving pleasure IMO is in the dry.
With winter tyres on the rear wheeled cars are very competent, on the other hand any car in wet winter conditions on "summer sport tyres" will be dodgy.


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

JohnE90M3 said:


> ...... on the other hand any car in wet winter conditions on "summer sport tyres" will be dodgy.


Nail on the head. I bet if you ran the R35 on winter tyres in the wet it would be great.


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

I was invited to attend a Jaguar day at Goodwood a couple of months ago and drove the new XKR & XJR. I thought the XKR would be similar to the R35 in some respects but they were worlds apart and I was happy to get back in my car at the end. . . But that's mainly because the GTR has ALL of the things I want & love about a car and the Jag's only had a few. It ticks all my boxes, if the RS5 ticks more of yours then go for it and enjoy it! Are you getting the ceramic brakes or staying with the standard setup?

I have driven an R8 (V8) but not an RS5 but I'd imagine the RS5 is more similar to Jaguars R range. It will be more economical and spacious than the GTR and the interior/build fantastic too. The V8 does sound the part but it will be smooth and refined.

The RS5 will be a wolf in sheep's clothing but I prefer a wolf in wolves clothing.


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## Marcus62 (Sep 14, 2009)

The big issue over the RS5 will be how it steers and handles, the reports so far suggest that it's a disappointment, but I would wait to drive one myself. The comparison with the GTR is crazy though and I don't know why everyone is getting hot under the collar (good fun though), the GTR is aimed at a different market and I think the OP is changing for reasons other than pure performance, the GTR wins that argument hands down.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

JohnE90M3 said:


> Mike my reply to that is "who drives near the limit" in the wet?.
> Driving pleasure IMO is in the dry.
> With winter tyres on the rear wheeled cars are very competent, on the other hand any car in wet winter conditions on "summer sport tyres" will be dodgy.


Sorry I was replying to the R8 against GTR answer, not your M3 vs RS5 one, although clearly your experiance with the M3 says otherwise.

My only other example would be the BTCC of old, where the 4wd cars came alive in the wet - each car was limited on bhp there were also regulations on weight, but 4wd won thru simply due to the extra natuaral traction of having all wheels driven.

Appreciate that very few drive to 'the cars' limits and most drive to their own limits of driving ability


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

MIKEGTR said:


> Sorry I was replying to the R8 against GTR answer, not your M3 vs RS5 one, although clearly your experiance with the M3 says otherwise.
> 
> My only other example would be the BTCC of old, where the 4wd cars came alive in the wet - each car was limited on bhp there were also regulations on weight, but 4wd won thru simply due to the extra natuaral traction of having all wheels driven.
> 
> Appreciate that very few drive to 'the cars' limits and most drive to their own limits of driving ability


 I found the RS4 B7 with summer tyres, not that great in winter TBH, no more so than the M6 or M3, all three were to be treated with care, warm wet weather and they were all much better but the RS4 did not inspire any more confidence in me personally, I expected it to but was ultimately disappointed. I had to learn how to get the best from BMW's after 4 new Audi's with 4*4, once driving style adapted I have only had the odd moment in the BM's. :thumbsup:


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

> Re-reading the Autocar Road Test they describe the GTR as a handful in the wet


Utter bull.

When Driving on the limit on track days in the driving rain in RRR I blew away every other car. Pork spun off, Caterhams spun off Fezzer gave up, Vette let me past. It is almost impossible to spin it off as the traction control is superb. The confidence this car inspires to press on in all weathers is unmatched by any other car.Yet to try VDC off though!


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

Paul, absolutely agree. :thumbsup:

My experience at both Castle Combe & Goodwood in the wet is that you sail past everyone. Of course you are going a lot slower, but not as slow as everyone else. 

People came up to me afterwards, saying they expected not to keep up on the straights, but could not keep up in the corners either. 

Great fun, and a lot less wear on the tyres and brakes...


Rich


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Hi Rich

Completely and utterly agree !!! LOL


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

So how come Autocar time the GTR 3.4 secs faster than the R8 round the dry circuit but 6 secs slower than the R8 round the wet circuit?

I suspect the GTR much easier on a wide race circuit whilst Autocar use the narrow Milbrook circuit which is more representative of real life roads.


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## Marcus62 (Sep 14, 2009)

PSC said:


> So how come Autocar time the GTR 3.4 secs faster than the R8 round the dry circuit but 6 secs slower than the R8 round the wet circuit?
> 
> I suspect the GTR much easier on a wide race circuit whilst Autocar use the narrow Milbrook circuit which is more representative of real life roads.


Not sure that would be the reason, it could be that the R8 simply has better traction in the wet, but 3.4 secs is a big gap, I would be a bit sceptical (but not as sceptical as some of the GTR owners on here


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

> So how come Autocar time the GTR 3.4 secs faster than the R8 round the dry circuit but 6 secs slower than the R8 round the wet circuit?


Don't believe everything the media tells you...


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

Luckily my RS5 order was delayed from Oct to Jan, allowing me option to cancel.

And my 11 year old son threatened to disown me if I bought the Audi plus a revised GTR announced for March delivery.

I went to look at the RS5 this morning although already made up my mind that new GTR the ticket.

The RS5 nothing special. I didn't expect to be bowled over but exterior just too understated and interior a bit plasticy. And not as roomy as I expected.

Which was great because I then had no reservation telling the Saleswoman I wanted to cancel.

And have just ordered new GTR in Black/Black recaros for March delivery.


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

There was one at Santa Pod this weekend.

Looked very dull


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## clint thrust (Mar 20, 2008)

I have had three "performance" cars including an Audi since I sold my GTR. None of them come close in any department.

The GTR is just stunning for the price and personally, I wouldn't want anything else.

The guy who said the mpg was poor should drive a 997 turbo!! shocking. I managed 29mpg out of my GTR on the first long run.

Can't wait to get back in one!.


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## clint thrust (Mar 20, 2008)

PSC said:


> And my 11 year old son threatened to disown me if I bought the Audi plus a revised GTR announced for March delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> > Thought you said it was embarrassing at the school???


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## Bing (Aug 26, 2010)

So true, MIKEGTR. ARE YOU KIDDING PSC?!?! Replace your GT-R with an RS5?!?!?

Don't do it mate. I would never sell mine.....well.....a Spec V sounds good....


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

If a current GTR knocks out 0 to 100 mph in about 8.5 secs can any of you guys who have been in new car please estimate new time.

Thanks


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Around 7 seconds is the deal with a Cobb stage 2. I would guess the new car would be similar.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Car Mag review of GTR and RS5 said GTR was the far better car!


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## Bing (Aug 26, 2010)

@PSC. I'm imagining around the 8 second mark, saying it has a few engine/aero tweaks...

Hope you keep Godzilla.


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## jeevgtr (Oct 9, 2010)

it all depends what you want from the car...

i had RS4 for 3yrs and S5 for 6months and changed for a GTR which i had waited 2yrs to buy it..it was worth it...
With Audi's you will get the comfort and spacious with a sporty look...
GTR is just a monster...u will feel everything under the tyre and also the G-force 

Personally i trusted the RS4 on every cornering...GTR takes bit of time to get used to it as the steering is stiff...

Well...guess it all depends what suits you better...


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## Andyuk911 (Jul 22, 2008)

worth a view

YouTube - automotomagazine's Channel


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## franki68 (Mar 11, 2010)

TAZZMAXX said:


> It's a nice alternative as far as Audi goes but the A5 type/range is vast and they are everywhere. Not enough individuality with them in my opinion.
> 
> Out of interest, why do you think that the Audi will handle better in the wet?


Audis with quattro are the best cars in the wet,they just are. (see autocars wet track times for proof, Audis dominate the top 10).


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