# Nurburgring this weekend.....



## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

Is anyone going to the 'Ring this weekend for the preview etc of the upgraded GTR? I'm flying from Heathrow at 1415 on Saturday.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

how did you manage that?


.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I got an invite from MH, but it was IMHO a waste of time and money.

Saturday involved sitting in a sales show (no thanks) followed by a public day at the Ring (no thanks) and one lap with a Nissan driver in a 2011 model as a passenger (yippee ****in do...)

WTF is the point of me wasting money on that when I cant drive the 2011 model?? How can I subjectively assess whether its worth me shelling out another possible 30K.

Utterly pointless exercise from Nissan as far as I'm concerned.


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

You were lucky to be offered that.
I think most HPCs only had one ticket to give out.
Westovers gave theirs to some guy who is on his 3rd GTR.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

charles charlie said:


> I got an invite from MH


pay back for the Milk Tray:bowdown1:

nice field coming together for tracmonring, buddy


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I think it was a little chance for MH to say thanks for the 44 gallons of tranny fluid I've bought over the last 18 months!

Looking forward to Anglesey Ed.....


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> how did you manage that?
> 
> 
> .


I was invited initially by my HPC then this was followed up by Nissan GB. All details sent today by e mail, sounds like a cracking weekend.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Naranja said:


> I was invited initially by my HPC then this was followed up by Nissan GB. All details sent today by e mail, sounds like a cracking weekend.


clearly, being an HPC tart has not worked for me


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

charles charlie said:


> I got an invite from MH, but it was IMHO a waste of time and money.
> 
> Saturday involved sitting in a sales show (no thanks) followed by a public day at the Ring (no thanks) and one lap with a Nissan driver in a 2011 model as a passenger (yippee ****in do...)
> 
> ...


Each to their own of course cc but it sounds like a great weekend and from what I've seen, no money is involved: all flights, transfers, hotel and restaurants are sorted. Valet parking at Heathrow too. There's karting aswell and some laps with a 'ring expert' on the Monday, again in a GTR. Good on Nissan I say.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Naranja said:


> Each to their own of course cc but it sounds like a great weekend and from what I've seen, no money is involved: all flights, transfers, hotel and restaurants are sorted. Valet parking at Heathrow too. There's karting aswell and some laps with a 'ring expert' on the Monday, again in a GTR. Good on Nissan I say.


The offer I received did not involve any free flights, transport, accommodation, karting etc.

Even the Sunday on the 'Ring wasnt free and nor was it booked exclusively by Nissan, so plenty of day tripping nutters to avoid.

Chris at MH was very explicit and careful to read out a prepared itinerary which was very clear.

It may well be that the "extras" you're getting are specific to your HPC. 

I can assure you that a freebie over to the Ring courtesy of Nissan or MH would have been taken in an instant.

I would have even gone and paid for my travel had Nissan provided..

1. Exclusive 'Ring time in my own car with instructors.
2. A chance to drive the 2011 model.

Otherwise, I would have been spending a small fortune to go and sit in a sales pitch.


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

charles charlie said:


> The offer I received did not involve any free flights, transport, accommodation, karting etc.
> 
> Even the Sunday on the 'Ring wasnt free and nor was it booked exclusively by Nissan, so plenty of day tripping nutters to avoid.
> 
> ...


Sounds very different to what I've been offered then. They were actually specific that everything was paid for, right down to travel insurance. They were also specific, as you say, that we wouldn't be able to drive the 2011 model but I can put up with that! Happy to look round it and be driven in it, aswell as all the other stuff obviously.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Well I have to say buddy that your trip will be well worth it then!

Enjoy your weekend and can I ask a favour?

Make sure the tranny temp is displayed when you take your passenger ride on the 'ring and could you report back what the start temp and highest temp are?

This is the only improvement for the 2011 model that would get me keen.

Cheers buddy!


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

And get a close look at the discs for cracking.
Mine started after only 2 x 2 10 minute laps with about a 45 minutes cool down.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Plus

How many laps is each car doing, with what cool down regime between laps?
Are they switching cars for the next customer ride?

Very useful intelligence gathering opportunity as CC points out!

:squintdan


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

Yes, I'll certainly note the above. They've been quite firm about the 'no recording devices' thing so I'll have to rely on me brain! 

There was a post in the '2011 leaks' thread that suggested the cars there had carbon ceramics but the guy didn't think they were V spec...sounds strange.


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

Yes, I'll certainly note the above. They've been quite firm about the 'no recording devices' thing so I'll have to rely on me brain! 

There was a post in the '2011 leaks' thread that suggested the cars there had carbon ceramics but the guy didn't think they were V spec...sounds strange.

Sorry about the double post, doing it all from phone. Mods please delete. Thanks.


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## CATDT (Feb 20, 2007)

Naranja said:


> some laps with a 'ring expert'


Could be Mr Schoysman :bowdown1:

Enjoy!

Jo


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## Justforfun (Sep 6, 2010)

A friend of mine is on the middlehurst trip and says Chris invited him and all is paid for too, he cant wait.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Justforfun said:


> A friend of mine is on the middlehurst trip and says Chris invited him and all is paid for too, he cant wait.


Well if that's the case I'm intrigued!

I was only offered the "experience" of the 2011 model sales pitch, no free trip.

Nice to be asked, but clearly I'm not seen as likely to spend on a new model hence the lack of freebie.


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

CATDT said:


> Could be Mr Schoysman :bowdown1:
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Jo


Let's hope so!


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

charles charlie said:


> Well if that's the case I'm intrigued!
> 
> I was only offered the "experience" of the 2011 model sales pitch, no free trip.
> 
> Nice to be asked, but clearly I'm not seen as likely to spend on a new model hence the lack of freebie.


That might make some sense CC, I had an early GTR, like yourself, nearly bought a second (Nav) car and have expressed a very serious interest in the new model, which I'm sure I'll have.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Naranja,

See you in the lounge pre flight tomorrow! Should be a great weekend and lots of opportunities to meet the Nissan team!

Rog.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

paul__k said:


> You were lucky to be offered that.
> I think most HPCs only had one ticket to give out.
> Westovers gave theirs to some guy who is on his 3rd GTR.


Dammit I have had 2 from them...always has to be somebody who goes one better!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

charles charlie said:


> Well if that's the case I'm intrigued!
> 
> I was only offered the "experience" of the 2011 model sales pitch, no free trip.
> 
> Nice to be asked, but clearly I'm not seen as likely to spend on a new model hence the lack of freebie.



Plus you have molested Mizuno's perfect car , so you don't deserve a freebie 

Would have been a nice trip, wonder why I'm not going?


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

ROG350Z said:


> Hi Naranja,
> 
> See you in the lounge pre flight tomorrow! Should be a great weekend and lots of opportunities to meet the Nissan team!
> 
> Rog.


Yes, see you there!


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## Wheels (Aug 15, 2009)

These ring cars will no doubt be on pirelli rubber and running AP brakes...

In typical nissan style.

We will of course get the blue cheese brembo discs.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

ROG350Z said:


> Hi Naranja,
> 
> See you in the lounge pre flight tomorrow!
> 
> Rog.


Tell me , it's not clubby as well.:bowdown1:

Maybe I should get a 2011


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> Plus you have molested Mizuno's perfect car , so you don't deserve a freebie


In the words of the great Han Solo....

"She'll make point five past lightspeed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself."


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> Tell me , it's not clubby as well.:bowdown1:
> 
> Maybe I should get a 2011


Looking that way.....sorry!


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

On plane with Naranja, David and the rest of the Nissan guys- looking like a great event and will be posting the full news story in Mem area on Monday. Obviously will try to address as many GTROC questions as i can - dont shoot me if we dont get all the answer (or the ones we want) first time out. Best turn off now as if I don't we may crash which would put a crimp on proceedings!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

opcorn:


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

opcorn:opcorn:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Holy. [email protected] :bowdown1:

Sub 8 minute lap, in damp, foggy conditions. Car is amazing. Planted, punchy mid range, sounds much better than the current model. Blue looks stunning even in the fog. 

Coolant temp 89, engine oil 106, trans temp 121. No cool down whatsoever and discs look perfect having done quite a few laps today and they weren't new today unless they changed them this morning.

But most amazing of all is Suzuki-san's driving. Completely humbling...


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Hear hear - three reports of tranny not going over 122 after (very) hot lap that none of us would match. Even after vigorous tranmission stresses (slightly sideways) I didn't see more than 122 and sub 110 engine. Noise is significantly improved - exhaust changes it appears - obviously will soon all be confirmed on 18th launch date! Blus is much nicer in the flesh and wheels are lighter and very pretty.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

At first glance that tranny temp of 122 seems a big improvement. Just a shame that you'll still need a fluid change of £600 after just one lap of the ring.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

charles charlie said:


> At first glance that tranny temp of 122 seems a big improvement. Just a shame that you'll still need a fluid change of £600 after just one lap of the ring.


I hope (though doubt will happen) that Nissan will raise the threshold to 130...seems mad at 120


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## sin (Dec 3, 2007)

Is it the same transmission oil as earlier models?

I'm sure i read somewhere (many drinks & sleeps ago) that Nissan where talking with pentosin.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

sin said:


> Is it the same transmission oil as earlier models?
> 
> I'm sure i read somewhere (many drinks & sleeps ago) that Nissan where talking with pentosin.


I will ask the question - we may not get official answers until 18th so not the worst wait!


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Henry 145 said:


> I hope (though doubt will happen) that Nissan will raise the threshold to 130...seems mad at 120


The OEM oil is NOT up to high temp operation, it starts to oxidise badly after 120 degrees and is so thin as to offer very little protection to the transmission. Unless Nissan have an up rated oil for the 2011 model the 120 limit will still apply, please don't forget that the diff oils also need to be replaced within the same time frame if the 120 limit has been exceeded as the diffs (particularly the rear) run even hotter than the transmission.

Whilst the lower running temp of 122 degrees is welcome if the same oil is in use and the diffs still run as hot then the change requirement will still be there, I for one do not run the stock oil for that very reason as well as wanting to extend the life of my transmission beyond the time limits of the warranty cover.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

This is something we haven't (and may take some time) getting to the bottom of. Will keep seeing how far we can dig.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

David.Yu said:


> Holy. [email protected] :bowdown1:
> 
> Sub 8 minute lap, in damp, foggy conditions. Car is amazing. Planted, punchy mid range, sounds much better than the current model. Blue looks stunning even in the fog.
> 
> ...


sounds great; wonder if price will be the sting though?

I think a nearer 70 grand car would be a very different proposition from a nearer 50 grand car, as was the case at the outset.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> sounds great; wonder if price will be the sting though?
> 
> I think a nearer 70 grand car would be a very different proposition from a nearer 50 grand car, as was the case at the outset.


No official comments at all on pricing as expected but with VAT increase the 'feeling' was definately sub £70K (but I guess not by much) for Black Edition - if Premium was at £64K that would be VAT increase and 5% over current list but I really am guessing there!

Interesting to see how that does affect sales as I would have started to think hard at £70K as well........well until the end of the hot lap that is!


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Yep, just under £70k was strongly hinted at.

Apparently the French cars are going to be 93k Euros (!), up 7k over the current Black Edition, so a £6k to £7k increase for ours would not be out of line.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

David.Yu said:


> Yep, just under £70k was strongly hinted at.
> 
> Apparently the French cars are going to be 93k Euros (!), up 7k over the current Black Edition, so a £6k to £7k increase for ours would not be out of line.


Sadly that makes the whole package a lot less tempting.

Servicing and parts costs will still be the issue for many (myself included), and if the new model is 15k more than what I paid last year, that makes this a whole less attractive proposition.

May actually keep second hand prices high (fingers crossed!)...


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Clearly they are mainly aiming the revised model at conquest sales, the number of existing GT-R owners trading up are going to be relatively small, particularly in the UK when none will be more than 2 years old when the new model comes out.

Improved interior and more power will make an even more compelling proposition for those looking to get out of their 911s or M3s...


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## jackg (Feb 1, 2010)

I've ordered one to replace my 09 model as I feel it seems to address the "issues" with that one.


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## GTR_Steve (Sep 4, 2008)

Gentlemen, was there any mention of the 'model year upgrade' packs making there way to Europe. These can be purchased in Japan at present and I wonder if this will be extended to a kit that includes the significant improvement areas on the 2011 model?


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

GTR_Steve said:


> Gentlemen, was there any mention of the 'model year upgrade' packs making there way to Europe. These can be purchased in Japan at present and I wonder if this will be extended to a kit that includes the significant improvement areas on the 2011 model?


What is to stop you picking some new bits off the spares list; e.g. bigger discs, exhaust?


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> What is to stop you picking some new bits off the spares list; e.g. bigger discs, exhaust?


Yes it was mentioned there will be some bits - however under evaluation for UK market and obviously fundemental changes will be difficult (and expensive) exhaust was one for me as it now uses the Spec V routing and sounds much better if I could get hold of that. Also ECU map etc was not going to be included in the upgrade packages as far as I could gather. 

Front Brakes were also a (unconfirmed) yes on the upgrade so potentially good choice at disk replace time for exisiting owners who didn't want to go aftermarket.


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

has anyone seen the Recaro branded seats. Nissan Cambridge just called me today about the spec etc.. has nice red & black seats with Recaro name but looks exact same as normal seats tbh


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Benji Linney GTC said:


> has anyone seen the Recaro branded seats. Nissan Cambridge just called me today about the spec etc.. has nice red & black seats with Recaro name but looks exact same as normal seats tbh


New Recaros are much more supportive and comfortable.....


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

ROG350Z said:


> New Recaros are much more supportive and comfortable.....


what about lighter ?


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Benji Linney GTC said:


> what about lighter ?


Didn't take my scales with me sorry ;-(


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Benji Linney GTC said:


> what about lighter ?


They look equally bulky and still have full electric adjustment, heating, airbags, so probably not. But they are a lot more supportive.

Apparently even the carbon backed Recaros in the Spec V only save 6kg per seat!
So if weight saving is a priority, aftermarket will still be the best bet by miles.

Not sure about fitting the new discs under the current wheels as one guy said they wouldn't fit. But surely there is more than 10mm clearance on our current setup?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> Not sure about fitting the new discs under the current wheels as one guy said they wouldn't fit. But surely there is more than 10mm clearance on our current setup?


Easily get another 10mm under there, even 20mm as with the Alcon 400mm. What he probably meant is that the bells and calipers are offset differently so they can't be backward compatible with the earlier cars. Sneaky old Nissan?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Easily get another 10mm under there, even 20mm as with the Alcon 400mm. What he probably meant is that the bells and calipers are offset differently so they can't be backward compatible with the earlier cars. Sneaky old Nissan?


Can't criticise them for improving the new car!


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Epic ring vid of the new car:

YouTube - Nurburgring 03-10-2010 GT-R 2011 Driver Takao Matsumoto

Most corners 1.2G or more Lateral
Carousel 1.6G!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

paul__k said:


> Epic ring vid of the new car:
> 
> YouTube - Nurburgring 03-10-2010 GT-R 2011 Driver Takao Matsumoto
> 
> ...


Yep

Fresh underpants job


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## Eatpies (Sep 29, 2003)

thats seriously impressive!


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## DiscoRagno (Mar 31, 2008)

Simo is in the video...a *Club GT-R Italia* member...


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

I was laughing out loud at his reaction in the vid! Was he actually praying from the Foxhole onwards? 

I was gutted when I played mine and the telemetry was all dead... :bawling:
I was watching the MFD though and we pulled 289km/h just before the bridge and it was still damp!


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Its great to see Nissan have improved the GTR with quite a few small tweaks which overall will make a difference. I also love the Blue Pearl.

However, if it's now £70k roughly, I think they're really going to see slow sales for the following reasons:

1. The novelty of the GTR is now over.
2. A 1 year-old UK car with under 10k miles, warrantied, from an HPC is circa £45k before haggling ie £25k less!
3. At £70k the price is only a few thousand under a new 911 C2S (and more than the base 911 C2)..... 

When I bought mine at £53k for a Premium, it was over £30k cheaper than a GT3 (my personal likely alternative), now its nearer half that gap.......

I'd be surprised if many people feel the extras are worth trading in a used 09 and paying £25-£30k on top to get the latest one......


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## The Mexican (Nov 17, 2009)

What tyres where they using?
(Sorry if I missed this)


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Guy said:


> I'd be surprised if many people feel the extras are worth trading in a used 09 and paying £25-£30k on top to get the latest one......


Then you will be surprised as the majority of customers on the trip have said they will upgrade, most of them immediately, some who have only just taken delivery of their current one, a bit later.
It really is a much better car, particularly if you're inclined to leave your cars standard, as most of this group were.

However, as I've already said, the improved interior quality and extra power are going to be even more tempting to people considering a new 911 Turbo or similar.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> Then you will be surprised as the majority of customers on the trip have said they will upgrade.....


...that doesn't surprise me though, since the people invited on the trip will be the most loyal customers that the HPCs most likely think will be inclined to upgrade. It remains to be seen whether the wider GTR owner population will choose to do. Only time will tell......


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## avster (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm inclined to agree with Guy. If the cost is roughly £70k then I feel that they have overpriced it. Although nothing has been confirmed yet I still think they should be pitching it around the £64k level. You can buy a 10 plate GTR with around 2000 miles for around £54-£55k, and that's the starting price for negotiating. So is the new car really going to be worth another £15k plus? 

I think it is a little easy to get excited when you see the new updated model, especially when it is driven so competently by their drivers. Is that not all part of the ploy, where they just get people so excited about the new car, that a kind of hysteria ensues.

Even with the respective updates how many per cent is it really better than the 2010 model?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

As I said, the new car must make conquest sales if it is to succeed and relative to its competitors, the GT-R is still remarkably good value.

And it no longer needs to convince people that it is a viable alternative, just convince some badge snobs that the interior is at least as good as what they are used to and the power is probably greater.

Many agreed that the original R35 was too cheap for the performance and technology on offer, but perhaps Nissan felt the need to be aggressive in pricing initially to make it an overwhelmingly tempting proposition.

Now it is an accepted "new benchmark", they can make the pricing more realistic.

Don't forget a UK R33 GT-R was £50,000 back in 1997 and a UK R34 GT-R was £54,000 in 1999! Factor in inflation and the original R35 was crazily priced...


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## avster (Sep 17, 2010)

David the car as you said is "still remarkably good value" and I have no doubt that the 2011 model is going to be a very good car. 

However to me the value becomes a little unclear when you see the cost of maintenance, compared for example to a 911 Turbo. You have to remember that Nissan 
used the 911 Turbo as a benchmark. Well to me if you are going to do that, you also have to try to get close to the Porsche for the maintenance levels. 

I phoned up a porsche garage the other day and asked about servicing. They informed me that over 4 years the cost was roughly £1500. Obviously I am not taking into account the wear and tear items. The GTR serviced at an HPC is likely to be closer to £5000. It's also the service intervals of 6 months or 6000 miles which many owners who are only doing a few thousands miles are thoroughly unhappy about. I won't even get into fuel cost because I think the turbo is doing around 26 mpg on the combined cycle. 

I can see your point about the Original R35 being cheap but then again one could make a very good argument to say that the R33, R34 were considerably overpriced.

I feel that the GTR is an awesome car. Nothing should detract from that. It has so many plus points. It's just that when I think about the fact that they only need to really improve 2-3 big issues in order to make this product one of the best ever cars, I can't help but think that Nissan missed a trick.


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

Can any coment whether new Recaros reduce room in the back or same as before?

Depreciation on the GTR seems poor - is this a function of high maintenance costs and if so, are Nissan doing something about it with new model? If they are charging Porsche prices they must offer similar after sales service.

Some of you have commented that engine noise improved. Is this engine or exhaust mods and will we all be still buying Y tubes?

Thanks


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

avster said:


> one could make a very good argument to say that the R33, R34 were considerably overpriced.


They weren't really overprices when you consider the volume they were sold in. As far as I know the R33 had 100 UK units and there were definitely only 80 UK units for the R34. The latter were all V Specs and all had mods specific to the UK market. They still have excellent residual values so your argument about overpricing is not correct.

I would say that the R35 was built down to its final selling price which has been highlighted by some of the issues that have been raised against it. If it has had all the cooling issues sorted plus some of the more minor problems then it is indeed worth the new price. The R35 does not stand good comparison against the previous GTR models as they are so different and had differing target markets.

All just my humble opinions, of course.


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## jcg (Oct 7, 2009)

I think comments on relative prices new and old are missing an alternative - the price differential between old and new cars will close if the reality of the value difference perceived by the market is less. If no-one thinks £70k is a fair price for a new one, no-one will buy and second hand prices of older GTR's may stay the same or fall in response to the expectation that "cheaper" new ones will in time hit the market; alternatively people do think £70k is a fair price for the new one (even more likely if this is in lower volumes[?]) in which case the price of secondhand cars will either stay the same (the event of the new car is probably priced in) if supply and demand in track or alternatively, if a group of people who had been holding out to buy the new model but now find it too expensive, decide instead to buy secondhand, if so the price of a nearly new but secondhand gtr will rise [in the real world it is of course possible that the putative buyers of new gtrs instead buy a porsche!]. The relative value difference hence closing. If prospective buyers decide the new car is too expensive but they still want a GTR then all else being equal secondhand prices should rise.


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## countvonc (Feb 11, 2009)

I will not be upgrading, they are depreciating pretty badly, so I think I will stay with one GTR loss, not 2.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

I've spent too much on my car to upgrade without it being a big RS Focus size kick in the nuts. 
But the new car does seem (from the Italian's vids on Nagtroc) another level above. But then again, i'll never drive that way. So i'll just trundle round in my 09, wait for a Litchfields to open up in Scotland, wait for the warranty to finish and tune it 

Good to see the development of the car, can only help us current owners.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

countvonc said:


> I will not be upgrading, they are depreciating pretty badly, so I think I will stay with one GTR loss, not 2.


Really? I thought all things considered values holding up pretty well...they lose the VAT straight off forecourt and then depreciation is pretty slow...compared to non GT3/RS 911's (ie Carrera, GT2, Turbo) and M3's etc I would say the GTR has pretty damm good residuals, and the price hike will only cement these values of the 09, 59, 10, and 60 cars


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Henry 145 said:


> Really? I thought all things considered values holding up pretty well...they lose the VAT straight off forecourt and then depreciation is pretty slow...compared to non GT3/RS 911's (ie Carrera, GT2, Turbo) and M3's etc I would say the GTR has pretty damm good residuals, and the price hike will only cement these values of the 09, 59, 10, and 60 cars


Exactly. Wasn't there a thread just the other day announcing the GT-R was the slowest depreciating car? No pleasing some people!

It's not a limited edition Ferrari, it's a mass production Nissan...


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## 1Rosco1 (Jan 18, 2009)

I hate to be the one to say it hasn't majorly impressed me, but it hasn't with those gearbox temps. Although he is going at a fast pace, he is in no way "on it". Show me a video where the 2011 car is being pushed hard and the temps after that, then I will believe it is as good as you say. I was out there Sunday and managed a couple of BTG laps literally just over 8 mins but with a bucket load of traffic in my standard (apart from AP discs) car. The highest temp I saw was 122 or 3 on mine. Anyone that was out there Sunday could tell you just how bad the traffic was, to the point I doubt I would ever bother with another public tourist day. There were crashes everywhere, virtually every hour.

The driver is super smooth and does not change up at the redline by the sounds of it, and he is backing off/balancing the throttle in many places where I would be flat out. He's clearly not demonstrating what the car is capable of, but showing a good fast flowing lap and of course it will impress greatly if you have never been before or cannot drive faster yourself. Put yourself in the same car, trying to use it to it's fullest, changing gear more necessarily than he was and you will see much higher temps than this I promise you.

Flame me all you like for the criticism, but I promise you I would have been faster around a clear circuit like he had and I'm sure many others would have been too.


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## PSC (Feb 3, 2010)

If a current GTR knocks out 0 to 100 mph in about 8.5 secs can any of you guys who have been in 2011 car please estimate new time.

Thanks


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

Is it defo the 18th for bhp/tq figures ?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

ChuckUK said:


> Is it defo the 18th for bhp/tq figures ?


18th will be full UK spec list and price.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

The new GTR will have the same temperatur problems on track as the old bucket....maybe 5 degrees less or so,but id say this doesn´t help anything....its perfect for guys that doesn´t want go fast...but is someone is seriously interested in going fast for more then 1 or 2 laps....then he needs to buy a aftermarket cooler:wavey:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

:chuckle::chuckle:


1Rosco1 said:


> I hate to be the one to say it hasn't majorly impressed me, but it hasn't with those gearbox temps. Although he is going at a fast pace, he is in no way "on it". Show me a video where the 2011 car is being pushed hard and the temps after that, then I will believe it is as good as you say. I was out there Sunday and managed a couple of BTG laps literally just over 8 mins but with a bucket load of traffic in my standard (apart from AP discs) car. The highest temp I saw was 122 or 3 on mine. Anyone that was out there Sunday could tell you just how bad the traffic was, to the point I doubt I would ever bother with another public tourist day. There were crashes everywhere, virtually every hour.
> 
> The driver is super smooth and does not change up at the redline by the sounds of it, and he is backing off/balancing the throttle in many places where I would be flat out. He's clearly not demonstrating what the car is capable of, but showing a good fast flowing lap and of course it will impress greatly if you have never been before or cannot drive faster yourself. Put yourself in the same car, trying to use it to it's fullest, changing gear more necessarily than he was and you will see much higher temps than this I promise you.
> 
> Flame me all you like for the criticism, but I promise you I would have been faster around a clear circuit like he had and I'm sure many others would have been too.


Haha, that might be the single most arrogant post I have ever read on here! :chuckle:
The four drivers giving laps are the GT-R development drivers; nobody on earth can drive a GT-R faster there.

I've just timed my vid with Toshio Suzuki and it is 7:49 full lap, not BTG.
Trans temp was 121c, engine oil 106, coolant 89.

I was keeping a close eye on the revs and was surprised to see he was on the redline most of the time. The new engine mods obviously produce the extra power mainly at the top end.

Where he may skew trans temps slightly is that he sets the car up before every corner so that the wheel is as straight as possible through the corner which gives the rear LSD less work to do and, according to Mizuno san, that rear diff is the source of most of the heat.

I've hit 132c in my mildly tuned car in just one lap, so I'm prepared to believe Mizuno san when he told me the new aero mods reduce gearbox temps by 10c.

However that's not much help when the maintenance procedure still states mandatory trans oil change within 5k kms of being between 120-140.
I forgot to ask if there was an upgrade to the diagnostic gear to actually distinguish between 110 and 120 though...


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## 1Rosco1 (Jan 18, 2009)

David.Yu said:


> :chuckle::chuckle:
> 
> Haha, that might be the single most arrogant post I have ever read on here! :chuckle:
> The four drivers giving laps are the GT-R development drivers; nobody on earth can drive a GT-R faster there.
> ...


Maybe so, but it's my opinion as to what I saw on the video posted up on youtube. Maybe you were in a car being driven faster.

The point I was making is that the average driver/owner giving it large around the ring will create much more heat due to not being nearly as smooth
as the test drivers showing how good the enw car is.

I was thinking about ordering one to get away from the problems I currently have, but judging by this new model, they still will not be cured IMHO.

In seriousness, do you think that it is???


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

1Rosco1 said:


> Maybe so, but it's my opinion as to what I saw on the video posted up on youtube. Maybe you were in a car being driven faster.
> 
> *The point I was making is that the average driver/owner giving it large around the ring will create much more heat due to not being nearly as smooth
> as the test drivers showing how good the enw car is.*
> ...


I agree with that bit.
I am just saddened that they have not tried to improve the formulation of the gearbox fluid. No other car in production needs gearbox oil changing as frequently as the GT-R, e.g. BMW, Porsche, Ferrari etc.

I am quite disappointed, bearing in mind the improvements made on virtually every other facet of the car, that the gearbox temp issue has not been more comprehensively addressed.

However, it has to be said, that for a standard car, driven on the road, the improvements have probably been_ just_ enough for most drivers.
BTW, the change interval for <120 use has now been doubled to 60k kms!

As for those of us who regularly track and tune our cars, it's back to the aftermarket for cooling solutions.
Has anyone tried the rear diff cooler in isolation? That is all Nismo do to the Track Club version I believe.

What about changing the rear diff to a cooler operating type altogether?
I can't understand how the standard one can get so hot operating normally!


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Rear Diff makes heat......but installing a diffcooler doesn´t lower the gearboxtemps by 1 degree....,just the diff stays under 120 degree with hard use...:wavey:

I have installed the Forge transmission cooler today on my GTR,next sunday and monday we are out on the Nürburgring...:bowdown1::bowdown1::bowdown1:


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## 1Rosco1 (Jan 18, 2009)

Excellent, please let us know the end results after a couple of hard laps. This to me seems like the only cure so far!


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David,

Firstly I don't know if you know Rosco, but he is a very good track and race driver and has done laps at the 'ring timed at BTG in the 7:30-7:45 range from memory and he's only been there three times, so he's not some numpty with a 'I think I can do sub-8 based on guesswork' attitude.

Secondly, it's clear the new car may have been improved, but the fact that their best drivers cannot keep the cars temperature within a normal operating range over just one lap proves it is not well-engineered enough. They need to either properly lower the temps or produce oils that can tolerate it. My 630bhp Ruf 911 GT2 never got hot at any track anywhere including the ring, no matter how many laps I did. It can be done, it's just Nissan aren't trying. Thats fine for a road car, but just don't market/sell it as a trackcar.

Guy


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

1Rosco1 said:


> Excellent, please let us know the end results after a couple of hard laps. This to me seems like the only cure so far!


Not altogether true. Just fit better transmissions fluid!
I've been using Willall since 5k miles and been over 130c a few times and virtually continuously over 120c, and corresponding with the MD, he says it's still good for a while yet.

Apparently it simply doesn't oxidise or mechanically breakdown to any appreciable degree at the temps we get it to.

Arkam has also been using them I believe, as have almost all the main American race teams fielding VERY hard driven time attack and race/rally GT-Rs.

Will get Middlehurst to pull a sample at the next service and send it off for analysis, but all indications are that the Willall is good for at least 12 months/12k miles of hard track driving, if not more.

Would Nissan warranty a box filled with Willall and changed less frequently than the factory recommended intervals? Don't know, but if the gearbox doesn't and won't fail, that is a purely academic question!


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Guy said:


> David,
> 
> Firstly I don't know if you know Rosco, but he is a very good track and race driver and has done laps at the 'ring timed at BTG in the 7:30-7:45 range from memory and he's only been there three times, so he's not some numpty with a 'I think I can do sub-8 based on guesswork' attitude.
> 
> ...


I wasn't casting aspersions on Rosco's abilities as I don't know them, but Porsche and Sport Auto have proven multiple times that they do not have a Ring expert capable of getting within even 15 seconds or so of Suzuki-san's times, so I stand by what I say that nobody could drive a GT-R at the Ring faster than that team when they are going for a lap record (which they obviously weren't when we were in the car!).

As for your Ruf, it didn't have a gearbox temp gauge, nor would the manual transmission necessarily be in danger of failing if it got up to GT-R-like temps! 

I'm not defending Nissan, as I said, I wish they had radically improved the gearbox cooling.
BTW, I forgot to mention in this thread that they have increased the gearbox oil volume somehow. He didn't say by how much, but that must contribute to the 10c difference he stated.


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

Guy said:


> David,
> 
> Firstly I don't know if you know Rosco, but he is a very good track and race driver and has done laps at the 'ring timed at BTG in the 7:30-7:45 range from memory and he's only been there three times, so he's not some numpty with a 'I think I can do sub-8 based on guesswork' attitude.
> 
> ...


I think you make some valid points but, I agree fully with what David days. I too went out with Suzuki-San, straight after David, and there's part of the point; the cars were coming straight in, having a splash of fuel, changing passengers and going straight out again, lap after lap. When I got in the car the tranny temp said 118 and went to a maximum of 122 after about 3 minutes. Max speed shown was 289kph. Suzuki was superb by the way.


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## 1Rosco1 (Jan 18, 2009)

Naranja said:


> I think you make some valid points but, I agree fully with what David days. I too went out with Suzuki-San, straight after David, and there's part of the point; the cars were coming straight in, having a splash of fuel, changing passengers and going straight out again, lap after lap. When I got in the car the tranny temp said 118 and went to a maximum of 122 after about 3 minutes. Max speed shown was 289kph. Suzuki was superb by the way.


You see, on that note, they have defiantely improved the colling situation on it. With my car it just gradually gets hotter and hotter up to the 130 point then the car chnages into 6th for you!

Trouble is, they have not improved it enough to say it is solved and you will still need all the oils changing shortly after any track day.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

1Rosco1 said:


> You see, on that note, they have defiantely improved the colling situation on it. With my car it just gradually gets hotter and hotter up to the 130 point then the car chnages into 6th for you!
> 
> Trouble is, they have not improved it enough to say it is solved and you will still need all the oils changing shortly after any track day.


Say your car is worth £50k now...be £20k on top to get the new one...and then it may not solve it for the way that you drive (which is very well I know!)...whereas you could keep your car and say spend £5k getting cooling sorted and perhaps a new exhuast as well...that's what I am thinking with regards to me!


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## 1Rosco1 (Jan 18, 2009)

Henry 145 said:


> Say your car is worth £50k now...be £20k on top to get the new one...and then it may not solve it for the way that you drive (which is very well I know!)...whereas you could keep your car and say spend £5k getting cooling sorted and perhaps a new exhuast as well...that's what I am thinking with regards to me!


This is why I want to hear confirmation from people that have the extra cooler as if that does do the job, I will definately get that done next! Only just changed my oils 2000 miles ago and will need to do it agin very soon now! I'm getting fed up with this!


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

1Rosco1 said:


> This is why I want to hear confirmation from people that have the extra cooler as if that does do the job, I will definately get that done next! Only just changed my oils 2000 miles ago and will need to do it agin very soon now! I'm getting fed up with this!


Well as I said, if you track it regularly, try changing the fluid. It won't stop the temps going up, but there are apparently no issues with Willall at high temps.

It maintains viscosity and protection even at 130c +.
Loads of threads on NAGTROC.org about it. No negative reports or any failures so far and the Yanks have been thrashing R35s for a lot more time than we have.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

1Rosco1 said:


> This is why I want to hear confirmation from people that have the extra cooler as if that does do the job, I will definately get that done next! Only just changed my oils 2000 miles ago and will need to do it agin very soon now! I'm getting fed up with this!


The extra cooler will do the job 1Rosco1, I am going to install the Forge Performance one (UK based design) and I have been running Willall TML in my gearbox since 6k and it simply does not breakdown with the heat, not to mention the extra protection offered by the heaver oil to the gear set.

The only downside if you can call it that is I had to back off the clutch clamping pressures a little as the additived in the Willall fluid are "stickier", don't forget that the diff oils will still need to be changed out over the 120 mark, but not straight away.

I am with you on the lack on a decent cooling solution on the 2011 model, I for one would have seriouly consider purchsing one if that particual issue had been sorted, but I will now spend my money on upgrading my current RAH to take it beyond the 2011 model


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

I have done a full write up of the event on Auto-Journals.com.
Here is one of the only photos I managed to nab before someone said "no more photos"!


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## The Mexican (Nov 17, 2009)

I was definitely going to replace my 09 Black Edition DMG with a 12 Black Edition DMG but now I am not so sure


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

1Rosco1 said:


> This is why I want to hear confirmation from people that have the extra cooler as if that does do the job, I will definately get that done next! Only just changed my oils 2000 miles ago and will need to do it agin very soon now! I'm getting fed up with this!



Will tell you on tuesday what the difference with the Forge cooler on the Nordschleife is.... :wavey:


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## Eatpies (Sep 29, 2003)

David.Yu said:


> I have done a full write up of the event on Auto-Journals.com.
> Here is one of the only photos I managed to nab before someone said "no more photos"!


Nice write up David


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## CSL (Jan 18, 2007)

Guess we should sometimes remind ourselves that the GTR is not a track car like the Porsche GT2 & GT3 

The GTR is one of the best cars ever produced in the modern era and can stand against these track bred beasts even if it is only for a lap or two. On the Nordschleife, for that one lap, they are magic, they come alive.... Even Porsche Carrera Cup drivers in their GT3RS's struggle to stay on your tail 

Thank you Nissan.

MIDDLEHURST, GET THAT FRIGGIN NISMO TRANSMISSION OIL COOLER KIT ON YOUR SHELF PRONTO ;-)

I love my warranty.

H.


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## CSL (Jan 18, 2007)

Does the Spec V have over heating issues or has no one been brave enough to buy one and track it ???


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

CSL said:


> MIDDLEHURST, GET THAT FRIGGIN NISMO TRANSMISSION OIL COOLER KIT ON YOUR SHELF PRONTO ;-)
> 
> H.


Too right; how long has this been in the pipeline, lol.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Zed Ed said:


> Too right; how long has this been in the pipeline, lol.


Yo Ed, I believe it is only the rear diff cooler that Nismo offer, I have been waiting 10 weeks for an anwser on cost & availability from MH!


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## 1Rosco1 (Jan 18, 2009)

Arcam said:


> Yo Ed, I believe it is only the rear diff cooler that Nismo offer, I have been waiting 10 weeks for an anwser on cost & availability from MH!


Me too, since beginning of June when they had it advertised on their website Andy said he would be in touch when it was ready to go!

Evolution VI - I look forward to the results!


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

@Rosco: Here you go... http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/143262-forge-motorsport-transmission-cooler-installed-tested.html


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## 1Rosco1 (Jan 18, 2009)

Yeah sod the £40 carbon ducts, I'm getting myself a proper cooler when I next need to change the oils


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