# Tarzan G Box undone



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

_The aim of this thread is to furnish potential buyers with a little more information on what the Tarzan G box actually does. Hopefully it's more informative than their website._

Being the curious type, I have always wondered what the Targan G box actually does. Nothing annoys me more that stuff for sale with no description of what it actually does. I get a steady flow of messages regarding these so I though it best to conduct a simple set of tests.

So, I bought one and I have wired it up with an R34 G Sensor.
I plan to plot the outputs, replace the R34 sensor with an R32/3 sensor and repeat.
So, I should end up with a bunch of overlays. Then, I'll see if I can match the SKYLAB Fusion plot to the Tarzan G Box line.
It might not be linear so it might be a best fit line. We'll see.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Good work Andy.....results should be interesting. Always good to see some testing of products rather than heresay (no, not testing of the pop band!)

The G-sensor thing is back on my radar again so will need to find a solution.....Will probably end up with one of your's anyway :chuckle:


TT


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Should be a good test! 

Im guessing this will probably be the same for the Midori one as the function is the same?

Swapped to a standalone unit, much more noticeable difference!


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## narface (Apr 9, 2010)

This will be interesting!
And if possible, comparing the Do-Luck standard and Tarzan G-box with Midori's standard and high performance digital G-sensors will show how they are each tuned.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Testing complete.
It's not what I expected.
I'll post up some graphs tomorrow.


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## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

Subscribed


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Me too


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## Chris32R (Jun 4, 2012)

Also subscribed. I've had my eye on the Tarzan g box due to its digital sensor which apparently responds a lot quicker than the factory pendulum type. They've just brought out a controller for it too which allows adjustability of the amount of torque applied to the front wheels and it also takes input from the throttle sensor to also determine front wheel torque applied. I'll wait until results tomorrow before I make purchase.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Is this the Tazan G box that just works a certain way, or the one I have that you can choose from a number of settings or do a custom set up?

I remember you saying on a track day that mine could do with a little more front wheel drive, but I've not adjusted anything away from the stock setting yet and quite like it's feel.


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

interesting.

subscribed! =)


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

CT17 said:


> Is this the Tazan G box that just works a certain way, or the one I have that you can choose from a number of settings or do a custom set up?
> 
> I remember you saying on a track day that mine could do with a little more front wheel drive, but I've not adjusted anything away from the stock setting yet and quite like it's feel.


Is this the other one you are thinking of:

Do Luck offical web | Tuningparts | Do-Luck Torque Manager II


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## Chris32R (Jun 4, 2012)

Cris said:


> Is this the other one you are thinking of:
> 
> Do Luck offical web | Tuningparts | Do-Luck Torque Manager II


I believe it runs the same Tarzan g sensor but is adjustable with front wheel torque level input


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Chris32R said:


> I believe it runs the same Tarzan g sensor but is adjustable with front wheel torque level input


My Japanese isn't too good chuckle but I think that Do-luck do a 'normal' digital g-sensor and the Tarzan box. I think that the DTM is applied to the normal digital gensor and allows for different 'maps'.

AFAIK the Tarzan box is a bit like the above mixed into one product (i.e. digital g-sensor and 'remap') but with a fixed 'map'.

Of course if someone knows better every day is a school day.


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## nozza1 (Jan 13, 2007)

R32 Combat said:


> _The aim of this thread is to furnish potential buyers with a little more information on what the Tarzan G box actually does. Hopefully it's more informative than their website._
> 
> Being the curious type, I have always wondered what the Targan G box actually does. Nothing annoys me more that stuff for sale with no description of what it actually does. I get a steady flow of messages regarding these so I though it best to conduct a simple set of tests.
> 
> ...



My exact complaint, aired it sometime back aimed at the suppliers stationed in japan. Least they can do is translate product details when advertising on this forum instead of only putting up pics and extortionate prices!

Anyways, respect for taking time out for testing this product, will be a benefit to users.

Quick query, can one still benefit from one of these devices even if he has a hicas lockout bar fitted?


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## RBnutz (May 7, 2012)

nozza1 said:


> Quick query, can one still benefit from one of these devices even if he has a hicas lockout bar fitted?


4WD controllers / digital G sensors have nothing to do with HICAS. 

A improved G sensor / controller should be of benefit over the stock ATTESA E-TS system.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Cris said:


> Is this the other one you are thinking of:
> 
> Do Luck offical web | Tuningparts | Do-Luck Torque Manager II


Yes, that's the one I have.


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## nozza1 (Jan 13, 2007)

RBnutz said:


> 4WD controllers / digital G sensors have nothing to do with HICAS.
> 
> A improved G sensor / controller should be of benefit over the stock ATTESA E-TS system.


:thumbsup:

Will be keeping a keen eye on this thread then.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

CT17 said:


> Yes, that's the one I have.


Cool. I may have missed it but have you written up any thoughts on the box?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

nozza1 said:


> Quick query, can one still benefit from one of these devices even if he has a hicas lockout bar fitted?


Yes, it's speed of input/process/output of torque transfer to front wheels, not rear wheel steer.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Cris said:


> Cool. I may have missed it but have you written up any thoughts on the box?


Not yet.
I've only done a few track days and as it's my first R32 I've been getting used to the car so have left the box in it's stock "circuit" setting, although I use the stock "Road" mode when not on track.

I've not tried the Tarzan setting or played about with the customizable settings yet.

Mr R32 Combat did come out with me at Silverstone and said it could use a little more front bias, but as I'm comfortable with how it handles I've not fiddled with it yet.

I also like being able to get the back out if I am honest... :chuckle:


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

These things are like busses.....

You wait for years to have a decent g-sensor replacement and torque controller and then out of the blue, LOADS come along at once with various claims and functionality!!!

It would be great to have a one-stop thread which gives a definitive guide to what does what and the various functions they provide..

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a certain level of confusion about tall the different types and their functions......


TT


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## nozza1 (Jan 13, 2007)

+1

Think this might be the right place to do it.



tarmac terror said:


> These things are like busses.....
> 
> You wait for years to have a decent g-sensor replacement and torque controller and then out of the blue, LOADS come along at once with various claims and functionality!!!
> 
> ...


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

CT17 said:


> Not yet.
> I've only done a few track days and as it's my first R32 I've been getting used to the car so have left the box in it's stock "circuit" setting, although I use the stock "Road" mode when not on track.
> 
> I've not tried the Tarzan setting or played about with the customizable settings yet.
> ...


Fair play. I like the idea of the adjustment but I worry that I'm too much of an idiot to actually be able to make use of the adjustment in any meaningful way.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

The G sensors reads Gravitational force. When the sensor is horizontal, it reads 0 G. When it is vertical, it reads 1 G.
If the sensor is rotated 90 degrees in either axis it will be subjected to 1 G. This is how it measures acceleration.
The information I have regarding the G v’s voltage is this.

This graph shows G (m/s) against Volts (V)




As 1 G is 9.8m/s we can calculate that 11.8m/s is 1.2 G by dividing 11.8 by 9.8.
Thus this chart shows a swing of 2.4 G along the Y axis
The X axis is volts. 2.5 V being where the lines cross, 0.5 V at one end and 4.5V at the other.
This shows a voltage swing of 4V across 2.4 G. This is 2V per 1.2 G or 0.1666v per 0.1 G
In the longitudinal plane the voltage rises with acceleration and falls with deceleration.
In the lateral plane, the volts rise on a left turn and fall on a right turn.

A test up to 1 G is all I can perform on the bench, 1 G is readily available, the extra 0.2 G is a bit awkward.

The 1st job is to find an accurate was of tilting the sensor. I chose a compound rotatory table. This has 360 degrees in one plane and 90 in the other.



Next I worked out what angle equated to what G.
I derived a small sum, sin-1(G)= the angle.
Thus I made this table with angle, G and voltage. Knowing that 0.1 G = 0.1666V






From here I tested my calculations with an R34 G sensor. For this I fitted a mag base onto the rotatory table and cable tied the R34 sensor so that rotating the table increased or decreased the longitudinal G. I repeated the test with the sensor at 90 degrees and tested the lateral G. 
Not surprisingly, the calculations are bang on. Volts and G are linear.

So, I now have a base line and I loaded those figures onto an Excel spreadsheet.

All I had to do was add the Tarzan G Box and repeat the test.
I expected the longitudinal and lateral outputs to differ but they are exactly the same.

I have added the results into the next column.




I then added the Skylab Fusion and repeated the test at both ends of the adjustment, knowing that with 0 adjustments the readings are the same.




I then conducted further tests on the Tarzan to see if there was any interaction between longitudinal and lateral but there is not.

I also tested the ABS output from all 3 sensors. The Tarzan G box is the same as the other 2 axis. The Skylab Fusion is the same as the R34 sensor upon deceleration, but can be altered on acceleration.


Conclusion.

The Tarzan G Box alters the voltage in the same way for all 3 sensors. I cannot test more than 1 G but the range is from .21v to 5.26v across 2 G.

To those that own one :chuckle:


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

So you're saying that the g-sensors are all the same?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Maybe an easier format?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

wildboy said:


> So you're saying that the g-sensors are all the same?


Er, no.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

That variance in the lateral response rate left vs right is a bit odd. Fine if you aren't an ambi-turner i spose.


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

So why is the Tarzan reading 2 different gradients on the lateral graph?
Looks a bit weird.

m/s^2 for accelerations too.


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

R32 Combat said:


> Er, no.


Haha, sorry, I was struggling until you put the graphs up.

I have lots of questions about what this all signifies, but I shall wait in case I end up looking more and more dense:chuckle:


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

wildboy said:


> Haha, sorry, I was struggling until you put the graphs up.
> 
> I have lots of questions about what this all signifies, but I shall wait in case I end up looking more and more dense:chuckle:


There is no such thing as a stupid question, only a stupid answer.


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

Any plans to do the full race kit?


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

I take it the outputs are what the controller is receiving? And the real work is done by how the controller adjusts torque based upon these readings?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

wildboy said:


> Any plans to do the full race kit?


Nope, it's to involved to map the entire ATTESA and then compare it to something else.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

wildboy said:


> I take it the outputs are what the controller is receiving? And the real work is done by how the controller adjusts torque based upon these readings?


The output of the G sensor is what the ATTESA ECU receives. 
From there it add all the other inputs, RPM, TPS, speed etc and it outputs pressure.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Just seen this, very interesting. I notice that the fusion box does lat and long + and - where as the Tarzan box and the R34 sensor does not. Can you explain how that affects the car in real life? Ie a conclusion on the road and the affects on the car under braking and acceleration when you have lat and long forces.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

It's a bit long but in a nutshell.

The front wheel drive is engaged during braking to reduce trailing throttle oversteer. The Tarzan G box produces a lower voltage for the same G. This making the ATTESA think the car is braking harder and applying more front torque.
The SKYLAB Fusion is designed to leave the braking characteristics unchanged.
In acceleration, the harder you accelerate the more front torque you get. So increasing or reducing the voltage for a fixed G will in effect increase or reduce front torque.
In cornering, the more G's you generate cornering, the less front torque you get.
So, by reducing the voltage for a given G whilst cornering, the more front torque you get. That in conjunction with longitudinal acceleration.
See below.


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

Anyone that drives the car hard should read the diagram above (from the workshop manual)


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

Apologies in advance Mr combat, but were your results the g-sensor outputs or the controllers final output?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Controller final output. 

Tarzan acceleromter.(Unsure of the exact series)

Skylab Fusion accelerometer

I cannot find any info on the R34 part, it too old.


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

Thanks, I guess now you just need to work out what the other inputs are contributing to the mix and you're finished?:runaway::chuckle:


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

wildboy said:


> Thanks, I guess now you just need to work out what the other inputs are contributing to the mix and you're finished?:runaway::chuckle:


It is my opinion that everything else related to the ATTESA is perfect. Lol


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

R32 Combat said:


> It is my opinion that everything else related to the ATTESA is perfect. Lol


Good answer


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

One day I'll fit the full race ets pro that's sitting in my garage.
Be interesting how it works on the road


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## omnigear (May 26, 2013)

I would like a test for this unit, just like the sky and tarzan.


wildboy said:


> One day I'll fit the full race ets pro that's sitting in my garage.
> Be interesting how it works on the road


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Andy do you have any plans to have a look at the Do Luck DTM II? Would be interesting if you can test that and see how they have mapped the fixed settings into it, they also have lots of user input settings.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I have no plans to buy one. I don't even know where I would. I can repeat my test on any setup if I am given the parts though. I know Richard has one but I have not had the opportunity to play with one.
I would be interested to test one. I hope they are not as crude as Tarzans Loin...


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

Any more real life experiences with this? 
Great thread by the way!!


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## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

Andy, you have a PM
c


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

R32 Combat said:


> I have no plans to buy one. I don't even know where I would. I can repeat my test on any setup if I am given the parts though. I know Richard has one but I have not had the opportunity to play with one.
> I would be interested to test one. I hope they are not as crude as Tarzans Loin...


How long would you need it for?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

CT17 said:


> How long would you need it for?


Just for an evening.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

R32 Combat said:


> Just for an evening.


I'll see how easy it is to remove.

You might need to look at it's settings though as it has five or so plus a custom one.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Removal might be as simple as removing the centre console and unplugging it.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

R32 Combat said:


> Removal might be as simple as removing the centre console and unplugging it.


I'm getting the car back at the weekend, will have a look if I get chance.


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## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

Hi Mate.
did you get my Pm ?
You are welcome to test it for your files, and our info ! :bowdown1:
cheers cokey


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## Jimbostir (Dec 2, 2008)

Interesting thread -now subscribed. Thanks so far!


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## GodzillaR32 (Apr 28, 2004)

R32 Combat....this is great info....just one question...does your latest unit replace the factory G Sensor? This was I thought the big benefit of the Tarzan box...a faster, more accurate reacting G-Sensor??


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## GodzillaR32 (Apr 28, 2004)

R32 Combat. Does your new unit replace the cars stock G-Sensor? I thought that was the advantage the Tarzan box and the like gave...their digital G-Sensors were miles faster and more accurate than the cars OE analogue G-Sensors???


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## GodzillaR32 (Apr 28, 2004)

Sorry for the duplicate posts guys...my home PC is not refreshing the forum page... :-(


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Yes, the Skylab Fusion II does replace the factory g sensor.
The whole g sensor speed thing is just smoke and mirrors really.
All modern surface mount g sensors are way better than the R32/R33 units. The R34 unit is the best of the bunch for OEM.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Richard did you ever get DTM tested by Andy?


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