# To the big power people



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I was lucky enough to have my first outing last night in an ecutek'd car (going out in a Cobb'd car shortly (thanks Radical) though I don't expect to feel any difference) and one overriding question came to mind during and afterwards.

What's the point of any more performance than that?

It was fast in a way I haven't experienced before. easily the fastest car I'd been in, and yet it was probably 580/590 bhp. 

I completely get that it is fun to modify cars, in fact I'm the biggest addict of changing things just for the sake of it, but I just can't understand why anyone would aim for say 1000bhp.

Surely it gets to the point where it compromises reliability or at least the drive of the car, but more importantly, below 100mph, can you really feel it each time it gets faster?

0-100 in 7 ish is stellar fast. From the butt dyno could you tell it was doing it in 6 instead?

I fully understand that the big power makes a more significant difference the faster you are going, eg 100-150 and so on, but at the limits of traction and handling below 100mph (such as on the road and probably most tracks) is it worth the effort?

I hate to admit it, as it will slow down my modding ideas, but I think the simply remap (ecutek or other) is all you'd ever need on this car, it really is otherwordly.

I expected it to be faster, but not a completely different league of performance faster.

Or like everything else, do yuo just get used to it?


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/143711-why-do-we-need-1000bhp-gtrs.html?highlight=1000hp


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## 007 (Sep 30, 2009)

You just get used to it mate and want more!!


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## alloy (Apr 29, 2005)

600bhp in the GTR is reliable power, no excessive stress on components and great power band for fast road driving......1000bhp is just greedy!!


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

007 said:


> You just get used to it mate and want more!!


+1....it gets normal and you need that next fix...'my name is Steve and I am slowly getting addicted to horsepower' 

If you end up going for a 580ish tune don't what ever you do get in a bigger bhp car....there is now way you won't end up wanting more!


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## Jimbostir (Dec 2, 2008)

You've started your post "I was lucky enough to have my first outing....." You was obviously looking forward to going out in it. if yours was 580, then you would probably feel the same about going out in a 700bhp...and so-on.
If you had 580bhp, you would get used to it.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Jimbostir said:


> You've started your post "I was lucky enough to have my first outing....." You was obviously looking forward to going out in it. if yours was 580, then you would probably feel the same about going out in a 700bhp...and so-on.
> If you had 580bhp, you would get used to it.


It's a good point, but if that were the case it's an insatiable dream.

You'll never be happy with the power.

I think the limit of what's fast enough for me is a lot slower than for others.

I just can't imagine the opportunities to really utilise it.


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## Radical1 (Feb 8, 2011)

580 - 600 is enough for the road. It's faster than my mates 430 Scuderia and that's all I care about !! My Dunlops can barely handle that much power in the first 3 gears, the TC is always in R mode otherwise I lose traction even at the top of 3rd gear ! It has also eaten a set of dunlops in 6k miles and I really don't thrash my car. Big Power = Big Bucks, I'll leave that to the mega loaded amongst you, carry on though as it's great to read about. I want to keep my licence and life in tact so will stick with c600 bhp.
P.S Just got my K&N drop in's so that should release a whole 5bhp, haha ! Cannot believe the state of the OEM filters after 18k miles, they really were a mess !


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Radical1 said:


> 580 - 600 is enough for the road. It's faster than my mates 430 Scuderia and that's all I care about !! My Dunlops can barely handle that much power in the first 3 gears, the TC is always in R mode otherwise I lose traction even at the top of 3rd gear ! It has also eaten a set of dunlops in 6k miles and I really don't thrash my car. Big Power = Big Bucks, I'll leave that to the mega loaded amongst you, carry on though as it's great to read about. I want to keep my licence and life in tact so will stick with c600 bhp.
> P.S Just got my K&N drop in's so that should release a whole 5bhp, haha ! Cannot believe the state of the OEM filters after 18k miles, they really were a mess !


personally i don't believe the 5% claim but the af correction will go bit leaner with them


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

The problem is that what you are saying is that you dont understand other peoples need for bhp.

You dont have to . If you think that xxxbhp is enough fine stay at that level 

But the simple fact is that you ( or to more accurate most people) do get used to whatever power you have frightningly quickly .

Since we buy these cars for the buzz when/if this decreases you naturally want more to keep the same buzz you got before you got used to it.

so the answer to............. can you tell the difference ? is you had better beleive it.


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## Radical1 (Feb 8, 2011)

Ben, I was joking about the 5bhp increase. BTW, you mention it will run lean with just the drop-in's,,,,,,please don't tell me I need a new custom tune, surely the MAF will detect any slight increase in air flow and change fuelling accordingly,,,,,,or not ? I got the imprssion from all the psots yesterday that I won't need to re-tune just with drop in's ??


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

I've found the best and cheapest way to appreciate Bhp, drive a 1.9D Citroen Berlingo van 5-6days a week then sit back into your R35, always get that rush of acceleration, simples!!!! Still hasn't stopped me looking at modds though, 

To be honest don't think I'd ever venture in the 700+ league but the forum would be a dull place without the projects section, it's part of the GTR culture to pursue more bhp.


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Radical1 said:


> Ben, I was joking about the 5bhp increase. BTW, you mention it will run lean with just the drop-in's,,,,,,please don't tell me I need a new custom tune, surely the MAF will detect any slight increase in air flow and change fuelling accordingly,,,,,,or not ? I got the imprssion from all the psots yesterday that I won't need to re-tune just with drop in's ??


yes exactly the af correction will adjust to hit out targets if slights out due to drop in's but bigger intake pipes will be too much work for the ecu so we help it along. no retune needed but your welcome to log and send to me or post on our datalogging thread at anytime


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

bobel said:


> I've found the best and cheapest way to appreciate Bhp, drive a 1.9D Citroen Berlingo van 5-6days a week then sit back into your R35, always get that rush of acceleration, simples!!!! Still hasn't stopped me looking at modds though,
> 
> To be honest don't think I'd ever venture in the 700+ league but the forum would be a dull place without the projects section, it's part of the GTR culture to pursue more bhp.


I think I fall into this category, 90bhp 6 days a week, 500bhp 1 day a week.

When I've driven mine on successsive days I do think to myself about having a bit more power and quicker response and then I think about how I'd get about with no driving licence. I had a 12 month ban years ago and it wasn't too big a deal but I think I'd struggle without a car now.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> I think I fall into this category, 90bhp 6 days a week, 500bhp 1 day a week.
> 
> When I've driven mine on successsive days I do think to myself about having a bit more power and quicker response and then I think about how I'd get about with no driving licence. I had a 12 month ban years ago and it wasn't too big a deal but I think I'd struggle without a car now.


Just as easy to get banned in a stock car as a tuned car though....only as fast as you make it go....


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Stevie76 said:


> Just as easy to get banned in a stock car as a tuned car though....only as fast as you make it go....


Good point but I suppose I'd use the car even more if it was modded, who knows. I'm not criticizing anyones decision to want more power but I can't see myself doing it for road use only. I have other plans afoot for something else.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Good point but I suppose I'd use the car even more if it was modded, who knows. I'm not criticizing anyones decision to want more power but I can't see myself doing it for road use only. I have other plans afoot for something else.


No clues?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Stevie76 said:


> No clues?


It doesn't involve my R35 but will almost definitely have a Nissan badge and be for track use only. I'm not fully decided at the moment and continued success with my business will dictate how soon it happens. It won't be this year though. Sorry to OP for going slightly off topic.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

not all 1000bhp will go to the tarmac so If you can put all 1000bhp on the tarmac then you are perfect.


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Adam - glad you enjoyed the ride last night. I took her for some V Power this morning!! 

I only use mine a couple of times a week at the most so I still get a real buzz from the uplift in performance, especially as it is only 500 miles old!

By the way does the Cobb custom run more than 17.5 PSI boost?

David


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm pretty sure that Ben will answer that, but the answer will be that it will run as much boost as the map and hence the mapper will allow.


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

yes we like to run smooth 17psi in mid falling to 15 at top end


some crazy yanks like to run 100% wgdc across the boost table which nets 24psi


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## E5.UNICORN (Jul 17, 2009)

Radical1 said:


> 580 - 600 is enough for the road. It's faster than my mates 430 Scuderia and that's all I care about !! My Dunlops can barely handle that much power in the first 3 gears, the TC is always in R mode otherwise I lose traction even at the top of 3rd gear ! It has also eaten a set of dunlops in 6k miles and I really don't thrash my car. Big Power = Big Bucks, I'll leave that to the mega loaded amongst you, carry on though as it's great to read about. I want to keep my licence and life in tact so will stick with c600 bhp.
> P.S Just got my K&N drop in's so that should release a whole 5bhp, haha ! Cannot believe the state of the OEM filters after 18k miles, they really were a mess !


"Big Bucks, I'll leave that to the mega loaded amongst you, carry on though as it's great to read about. I want to keep my licence and life in tact so will stick with c600 bhp". Well said.

Thats enough for the road. No one comes close and no one bothers. Abit annoying really would love a little race now and then..:flame:


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## Skyline9762 (Oct 27, 2010)

E5.UNICORN said:


> "Big Bucks, I'll leave that to the mega loaded amongst you, carry on though as it's great to read about. I want to keep my licence and life in tact so will stick with c600 bhp". Well said.
> 
> Thats enough for the road. No one comes close and no one bothers. Abit annoying really would love a little race now and then..:flame:


I think 600 is more than enough to still loose your license and life lol.


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## AndyBrew (Feb 2, 2011)

I agree with the OP to stretch the legs of an R35 you are immediately in license losing territory, I enjoy my b road blasts but probably never exceed 3/4 throttle and don't go over 5000 rpm!

Stage 2 is plenty for me ......... I think!!


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Never enough...just picked up my 650R this evening and its amazing....so much power and so smooth....I don't think you can have too much power really....having the talent to use it however is another thing!


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

Stevie76 said:


> Never enough...just picked up my 650R this evening and its amazing....so much power and so smooth....I don't think you can have too much power really....having the talent to use it however is another thing!


How's that down pipe noise Stevie? Is it savagely loud or still bearable, comparison to custom tune power wise?


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

i have the best job...i test and tune 500bhp to over 900bhp r35s on a daily basis

trust me when you drive and feel a big un!! theirs no other feeling in the world 

its the question i get asked the most..will i feel the difference?
650bhp to 750bhp or 750bhp to 850bhp we have a long list of happy guys out their
that can say A BIG YES 

check out the project sections

kk


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

bobel said:


> How's that down pipe noise Stevie? Is it savagely loud or still bearable, comparison to custom tune power wise?


It is loud...no getting away from that but it's not 'too loud'....I really like it:thumbsup:

Power wise it is much much stronger now than it was....took my better half out for a spin when i got home tonight and she likened it a roller coaster as every time I put the foot down she said she was loosing her stomach into the back of the seat like going over the brow of the hill after the climb on a big coaster:clap: you can really feel a big difference....well worth it!


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Stevie

You should let her stretch her legs on a trackday - any plans?

David


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

sumo69 said:


> Stevie
> 
> You should let her stretch her legs on a trackday - any plans?
> 
> David


Yeah will do at some point....think I might do the next part of the CAT driver training course first though. Will also have to have a think about getting the front wrapped for that...main reason for not doing one right now is really don't want the front of the car pebble dashed.


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## ChristianR (May 31, 2005)

you just get used to it


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

@ben what psi/bar is the gtc 650R tapering at redline??


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## Turbotwo (Jan 28, 2011)

Benji Linney GTC said:


> yes we like to run smooth 17psi in mid falling to 15 at top end
> 
> 
> some crazy yanks like to run 100% wgdc across the boost table which nets 24psi


So you can run 24 psi on pump petrol?..What power does this yield?!


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## MidLifeCrisis (Apr 29, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> I was lucky enough to have my first outing last night in an ecutek'd car (going out in a Cobb'd car shortly (thanks Radical) though I don't expect to feel any difference) and one overriding question came to mind during and afterwards.
> 
> What's the point of any more performance than that?
> 
> ...


My thoughts are if one guy can _really_ drive, and has _serious_ brakes, he / she is going to be faster 90% of the time than the average driver with more power. OK, the more powerful car may win a drag race or on a motorway, but on average roads or a track the other car will get it every time.

In my Subaru STi days I went to about 385bhp from the stock 305, but the car was not hugely faster on a back road. Then did H&R sway bars, Work wheels with good tyres and _serious_ brakes. Car was drastically quicker on the back roads as a result. I'd say the non engine upgrades added more overall speed than the increased bhp, especially the brakes.


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## Turbotwo (Jan 28, 2011)

MidLifeCrisis said:


> I'd say the non engine upgrades added more overall speed than the increased bhp, especially the brakes.


I could`nt agree more,it`s certainly a point often overlooked i reckon..along with some good driver instruction,these things make the whole experience of big power so much more.


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## MarcR35GTR (Oct 17, 2010)

Stevie76 said:


> Never enough...just picked up my 650R this evening and its amazing....so much power and so smooth....I don't think you can have too much power really....having the talent to use it however is another thing!


Steve is the 650R that much quicker than the Cobb Custom tune and Y-pipe ?
Has it changed the daily useability at all ?

Also Can i ask how much the upgrade was ?


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

MarcR35GTR said:


> Steve is the 650R that much quicker than the Cobb Custom tune and Y-pipe ?
> Has it changed the daily useability at all ?
> 
> Also Can i ask how much the upgrade was ?


Yeah it's definitely noticably quicker, much more urgent. I don't really know how to describe it....I noticed the biggest difference in power going from stock power to the stage one canned tune....felt like that unleashed the car....the 650 feels like it has done that again...same feeling in jump of power compared to stage 2 tune. 

The car is no different to drive at normal day to day speeds still really smooth and even on the way back I was a bit light on fuel so cruised for a bit and was still showing an average of about 28mpg on the m6 sitting about 80ish. would be best to give SVM a call re the price as I had a couple of other bits done when I was there and already had AP etc....

There is also a lot more drama now in mine with added noise from DP's and the blow off valves. I always use my other half as a barometer and interested to see if she can feel the difference and she felt the difference straight away.


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## OldBob (Oct 18, 2010)

Of course there's a point to big power upgrades keep em coming. Yep familiarity not only breeds contempt, but lessens the buzz so wanting more is always likely.
Do YOU personally need it is the question really. 
I'm also in the camp that use other cars during the week, down to a 1.4 clio, (no point being in the M25 car park in the GTR) coming back into stage 2 GTR is awesome everytime and I have to say gets quite frightening how it's too fast for road driving really. I'm so old I forget this feeling easliy so that's a plus.


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

I wouldnt fancy driving a GTR with much over 600 bhp on the road with any vigour traction would be a big issue. Big builds are fine on track and down a strip where they belong.


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

^^You should try driving one of the old school GTR's with big power on the road with a bit of gusto- can get a bit hairy LOL


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Being able to modify GTRs to astonishing power levels is and has been one of the main reasons of owning a GTR in the first place, trying to squeeze more power out of them since the old school GTRs were hand-cuffed to 280bhp. Such stance has become like a *culture* in owning a GTR, "more and more mods" "more and more power" this is what you'd naturally think once you own a GTR. If you don't want to mod it, you must be a boring person. "Modifying" "wanna go faster" That's where all the fun starts.

However, it depends how much power you want really, and how you are using car, that's where you'd put limitations of how far you wanna go with mods. 600hp as the OP said is good enough for road use, but some want a lot more


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## markleach (Jun 29, 2009)

*Big power gtr*

Have recently had suv 750 r conversion and let me tell you it's a brilliant fast road car realy useable power low down grunt is amazing it's not all about top speed one squirt of the throttle and you can pass on the smallest of gaps to say what's the point of big power why do people buy a 911 turbo instead of a carrera2 or a Ferrari or buggati you should drive one of these cars and you will get the point


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

I am actually happy with my GTC/Titan/Cobb setup (590 ish I guess based on W8PMC figures at rolling road day) - going to Le Mans I destroyed a 458 Italia, Aston DB9 and Audi R8 V10 out of toll booths from rolling 10 MPH start up to....er well let's say quite quick.

This starts to put how fast it is into context really and you end up competing with yourself. Agree it is the Heroin hit but actually on raods up where I am you can barely get to the top end of third before hard brakes and balancing into next sheep chicane so would I notice the price/performance for the next jump? Good luck to those doing it though - why did we climb Everest? Because it was bloody well there to be climbed.

Stevie I am not getting in yours no matter what you tempt me with....check back next week for when I change my mind again! ;-)


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