# Peeps - need help - FITTED BM57- AND BANG



## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

So, fitted bm57, had to swap reservoirs over, no biggy - 
Refitted new bm57, started engine, pumped brake pedal, and BANG :nervous:
Hopefully someone will tell me this is the rod seating, or something like that

Also, have next to no pedal 
I would have thought i may have at least some pressure as fluid in lines....


Help please


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

ahhhhh come on lads


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

OK I'm going to say it...what's a bm57?


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## Natbrat300 (Mar 6, 2012)

Brake master cylinder I would guess.


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

What car?

Surely you would need to re-bleed the entire braking system to get rid of all the air that would have gotten in when swapping out the master brake cylinder. Or am I over simplifying things?


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## steve_gts4 (Nov 30, 2009)

why not remove the cylinder and try to spot what went "bang"? 
if you changed the cylinder and have not bled the system, the pedal will go straight to the floor.


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Hilarious - all the replies start coming in during work hours - thats funny 

Just started to bleed brakes, and there is no fluid coming from rear brake, and sounds like a squelching noise from master cylinder

could the cylinder be ****ed?

by the way, its a bm57 from r34 gtr being fitted to r32 gtr


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## jonnypolish (Sep 25, 2012)

IIRC you have to bleed the system in order.

I think its FL, RL, RR, FR (Don't quote me on that though, haven't done brakes in a long time!


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

I thought it was - start with furthest from master
so, RL, RR, FL, FR


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Anyway, - 
the point is 

When pressing the pedal, for aaaaaages, there is no fluid coming from caliper


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

carlsworth said:


> Just started to bleed brakes, and there is no fluid coming from rear brake, and sounds like a squelching noise from master cylinder
> 
> could the cylinder be ****ed?


Most likely yes. Sounds like the seals have gone..

TT


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

I suspect the bang may just be because you didn't fully tighten down the two bolts holding the MC onto the servo and its moving around. Though it does sounds worrying. Does it bang every time you press the pedal? The end of the rod needs to sit nicely in the cup of the piston or it will score the cylinder wall.

We could start with the basics. I'm guessing you've not bled brakes before, is that right?

You want the engine off (you don't want the servo assistance while you are bleeding).

Ideally if you have a dry MC I'd vacuum or pressure bleed to begin with rather than do it by pumping the pedal, but if you don't have the gear you will get there doing it the old fashioned way .. eventually.

You need a mate to help really, 

1. one sits in the car, press and hold the pedal, 
2. the other cracks open a bleed nipple 
3. the pedal will go to the floor and should be held there until the other quickly tightens the nipple up again, do not release the pedal while the nipple is open.
4. then release the pedal back to the rest position 

and repeat and repeat until only clean fluid comes out of the nipple with no bubbles. then move on to the next bleed nipple. 

Generally start at the caliper furthest away from the MC, though if you have a bleed nipple on the ABS unit I'd be tempted to do that first.

Check intermittently that the reservoir doesn't run dry, if it does, you'll need to start all over again.

If no fluid comes out, the bleed nipple may be blocked, you can unscrew it completely and clean it out.

If all of that doesn't work, the seals in MC are likely knackered.


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## David (Apr 25, 2003)

Have you adjusted the master cylinder to ensure the throw is correct? If the link which connects to the pedal is too long it does not allow the pedal to return far enough and collect fresh fluid from the resovoir. Try making it shorter (its threaded and adjustable for this reason).

Then bleed the system again


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## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

Sometimes you might have to bleed the m/c first, possibly off the car. They are a pain sometimes, and this could be the reason your not getting anything out of the calipers.


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

thanks for the replies peeps :thumbsup:

I know about how to bleed brakes, but thanks for the info AlexJ 

As far as "adjusting the throw" on the servo rod, - I was under the impression that the mc are interchangeable between 32, 33, 34 without ANY modification

The mc is a used replacement, and i suppose its highly possible that it has been sat on a shelf for a while, and seals are goosed -
In this case, is there a seal replacement kit available???

The worrying part of this, is that I could pump the pedal until my leg fell off, and there is still no pressure - 

So it has to be something to do with mc, or as David said, the throw - 
But how on earth do I know its adjusted correctly???

thnaks again you lot, coming to the recscue :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

I'd crack open the fittings at the MC, see if any fluid comes out when you pump the pedal.


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Hey Alex-

So what would this tell me?
Im thinking along the lines taking off the mc, - bench bleeding it, then refitting- 

If I crack the lines, and press pedal, IF there is no fluid, does this tell me the mc is fahookered???


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

if no fluid comes out either the seals are poked or the push rod isn't moving the piston.

If you have a chunk of air in the lines you would expect no pedal at all as air compresses very easily and you have to patiently bleed the air from the lines. In some cases it's almost impossible without using either pressure or vacuum, the reservoir on the R32 makes it difficult to get a good seal with a gunson style pressure bleeder, but as an alternative a cheap hand vacuum pump on the bleed nipple works pretty well. Pumping away at the seals, moving past their normal range of movement doesn't do them any favours tbh.

BTW if it comes to it you can buy seal kits which come with a replacement piston, at least you can for the standard r32 MC, I fitted one to my R32 GTST years back, it's about half the price of a new complete MC from memory.


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

FYI

GTR R32 Service Manual

Check out page CH-249


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

AlexJ

Technically, you're a hero lol

Thanks for the info

Any reason the push rod would not be pushing?
Cant think of a reason, unless the "bang" was the rod snapping?


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

The BMC's are interchangeable...I did this exact conversion before I ripped it all out for twin cylinder bias box....
I think folks are over-analysing this...IF he only removed the BMC and swapped it for the new one then he won't have gone NEAR the rod or removed the servo!!!

Go get yourself another BMC to try or get a seal kit for the one you have. If there are no leaks anywhere in the system i.e. burst hose then ALL it can be is master cylinder seals!!!


TT


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

AlexJ said:


> I suspect the bang may just be because you didn't fully tighten down the two bolts holding the MC onto the servo and its moving around. Though it does sounds worrying. Does it bang every time you press the pedal? The end of the rod needs to sit nicely in the cup of the piston or it will score the cylinder


He never mentioned that he didn't fully tighten the two bolts. The small actuating rod that sits in the servo and locates in the back of the BMC would have to be WAY out of alignment not to locate in the BMC!

TT


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

TT, or Tarmac Terror, 
Which ever you prefer 

I was along the same lines of thinking, but because I have never changed the bmc before, have become a bit tangled up in peoples ideas - (while they are all helpful in getting to the problem)

I was thinking this - 
The bmc slides over the rod, and CANNOT be fitted out of alignment - Its just not possible - so, EITHER
The seals in the cylinder are toast, OR
There is so much air in the system, its just taking forever to pump through, OR
The bmc HAS to be bench bled before installing

CArl


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Forgot to add

Thnas to everyone so far that has given info/help
GavGTR - Good man with the GTR manual - used to have this on, now, dead laptop


Im gonna bench bleed the cylinder, and take it from there - 

While this thread is a bit poxy, it may help someone in the future with similar problem
:smokin:
Carl


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

tarmac terror said:


> He never mentioned that he didn't fully tighten the two bolts. The small actuating rod that sits in the servo and locates in the back of the BMC would have to be WAY out of alignment not to locate in the BMC!
> 
> TT


I was thinking more that he may have thought he'd tightened them down but not actually fully seated the MC against the server. Cross threaded bolt etc.

The push rod coming out of the servo is articulated IIRC so it flops about when the MC is removed, not inconceivable to get it hung up on the rim of the tin cap of the MC when you put the MC back on if you didn't know to watch for it.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

carlsworth said:


> Forgot to add
> 
> Thnas to everyone so far that has given info/help
> GavGTR - Good man with the GTR manual - used to have this on, now, dead laptop
> ...


let us know how you get on.


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## Gaz. (Mar 4, 2013)

Swapped master cylinders before (even have experience of a BM57) and have never heard a BANG. That's not normal, at all.

Either the seals or ****ed, you've snapped the rod, or something else. Adjusting the rod isn't a "modification", they come adjustable from the factory for a reason.


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

i changed my 32 standard bmc to BM57. did not adjust anything, just straight swap. bled the whole brake system. no issues


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

nightcrawler said:


> i changed my 32 standard bmc to BM57. did not adjust anything, just straight swap. bled the whole brake system. no issues


+1


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

wildboy said:


> +1


nice one bud :bowdown1: 

still appreciAte your help :thumbsup:


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## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

The rod adjustment is down at the pedals anyway and as you have not touched it it will be fine.
Master cylinder should bleed off any small amount of air introduced during the change over.
Sounds like the seals are shot.
But if it has been on a shelf dry then its worth taking it off and Priming it with fluid and ascertaining that with the reservoir full it is pumping fluid. Your finger against the outlet will suffice.
Let us know the outcome ?

Or your car may have Why pipe envy and wants to be crushed :clap::clap:

Be methodical and you'll fix it.
cheers cokey


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## Gaz. (Mar 4, 2013)

If a seal has made a bang loud enough to hear inside the car then it's 100% bollocksed!


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

nightcrawler said:


> i changed my 32 standard bmc to BM57. did not adjust anything, just straight swap. bled the whole brake system. no issues


+2

TT


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

By the time I finished work this evening, I couldnt get fittings to bleed bmc - Shop was closed - So, put it back together, and dropped it off at mechanic - let him sort it - I have too much on at work to be messing with this right now

Will let you know the results tomorrow night

:wavey:


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

So, 
Drop the skyline for the brakes to be bled - 
Get a phone call at 5, saying its ready to collect, and they will need "bedding in" 
WHAT???
I asked you to bleed brakes!
Yes, but they will need bedding in
WHAT???

So, I collect the car after work, and the garage has already shut - 
and the brake pedal is as bad as when I took it-
There is no pressure until the last few inches, and it stops - 
So where the hell has all my brake pressure gone?????

Recommended mechanic with 30+ years experience, -
Surely he would have noticed the pedal go all the way to the floor

REALLY ANNOYED AT THIS POINT


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## Swobber (Oct 8, 2006)

Useless mechanic.
I'd never tell a customer something like that. The car wouldnt be released for pickup with bad brakes at all!


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## jonnypolish (Sep 25, 2012)

I take it the mechanic wasn't a specialist? Don't pay until they sort it..


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## Swobber (Oct 8, 2006)

Specialist in bleeding brakes?
-come on ... its basic stuff, no matter what car we are talking (only except i can think of is citroens running hydraulic suspension where brakes run on the same system).


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Swobber said:


> Useless mechanic.
> I'd never tell a customer something like that. The car wouldnt be released for pickup with bad brakes at all!


EXACTLY what I said to the girlfriend- 

There is definitly something wrong "somewhere" and it was pretty scary driving the 2 miles home

Bleeding brakes is a piece of cake, I just didnt have the time to do it myself due to work

Really annoyed with this now - 
So, what are the possible problems???

Brakes were ok, but not amazing before the bmc swap - 
So, I would think the BMC seals are tossed - 

However, the pedal pumps up rock heard when the engine is off - turn it on, and it goes to s hit - 
so, does this point to the servo???

Im not 100% on brakes, so any help is VERY MUCH appreciated

thanks 

Carl

Also, where do I get a BM57 seal kit ???

Ive tried all the usual places :/


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## Gaz. (Mar 4, 2013)

Tried Nissan themselves?


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Gaz. said:


> Tried Nissan themselves?


Yeah give your local nissan a call, the part number is 46010-05U02 

From here: http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/175184-largest-master-brake-cylinder.html

BTW if you can pump the pedal up and it doesn't sink to the floor when you hold that pressure, I'd be inclined to persevere with bleeding it.


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Thanks Alex - 
Im waiting on a return phone call- but from what I have read on the net, it seems 'they' dont do them anymore :/

Alex, you mean bleed the bmc?


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

.


carlsworth said:


> Thanks Alex -
> Im waiting on a return phone call- but from what I have read on the net, it seems 'they' dont do them anymore :/
> 
> Alex, you mean bleed the bmc?


Just bleed the system in the normal way. If you have pressure you are moving fluid, pump up the pedal and crack open the abs bleed nipple see if fluid comes out. 

Some dealers will play silly buggers but they aren't going to discontinue a part for 10 year old car imo. I have used Nissan Sunbury, not used them in years though. Abbey may well be able to get hold of a rebuild kit, its not the seals in fact its two pistons as it goes. 

You got it from JDM Garage? I think they will take it back if it id truely duff


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Hey alex

So, 
I have phoned nissan, and they cant find the BMC with part no. "not on file"
He wants chassis number and MAYBE will be able to find it

I will try bench bleeding the BMC then refit, then re bleed the system.
I may aswel try abbey while Im at it for a repair kit

Wether it needs it or not, I will be able to conclusively be able to rule out the BMC being defective


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Sorry yeah that part number is for the entire master cylinder not he rebuild kit:
Brake Master Cylinder (BM57) - Genuine Nissan Skyline R32 GTR V-Spec I & II (RB26DETT, Brembo Calipers With ABS) (46010-05U02)

Obviously if they insist on a chassis number you'd need an R32 Vspec/R33/R34 number to give them.

I think you're making work for yourself to take the thing off and bench bleed it, it's on the car why not bleed it there. I didn't need to bench bleed when I went from BM50 to BM44 on my GTST when I removed the ABS. 

If you don't have one already get something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deluxe-Ha...d-Kit-Vacuum-Pump-Car-Motorbike-/200756420457 will make your life easier.


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Alex- 
ok, the BMC - 

Im thinking I will bleed it using this method-
attach fitings and pipe to ports- insert pipe into reservoir, then sit in the car, and pump brake pedal- 
this should work right? rather than removing BMC

Then, I will bleed ABS

Then onto calipers

If the above doesnt work, Im going to throw a lit match at it and swear a lot


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Yeah that would work just as well as doing it on a bench - personally I'd just do what I always have done and bleed the thing normally, but each to their own 

Are you doing this single handed? You really need a helper. 

BTW swearing is a mandatory part of proper brake bleeding as far as I'm concerned.


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Ok

Got a price from nissan and for the master cylinder kit for R34 gtr bm57 is

155 + vat :bawling:

I would think thats faaaaaaaar more than I can get elsewhere with a bit of digging


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## blitzman (Mar 14, 2006)

No point buying something if you don't need it so make sure it is ****ed.
Take the BMC off.
Disassemble it and clean the parts including the bore.
Make sure nothings damaged,missing.
Wet build it following a diagram and put it back on the car making sure the rods attaching properly.
Then bleed the system properly including the ABS.


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

UPDATE

Ok, so yesterday I picked up the skyline after brakes had been "bled" by mechanic
and they were shocking bad - foot to the floor, and literally NO pressure - used handbrake and gears to slow down on my way home

So, TONIGHT

I bled the BMC while on the car using a couple of screw in adapters, and 2 pieces of pipe - total price - 3 euros
Then, I bled the 2 abs ports - LOTS of air in there-
Then, started to bleed the calipers - Started with Drivers side rear, because it was handiest to get to - I was pumping air out of this caliper/line for about 15-20 - HUGE amount of air in there, and used a half liter of brake fluid doing it-

So, after a long day at work, and losing light, Im stopping and will do the rest tomorrow -

THE IMPROVEMENT IS REMARKABLE
feels better than it has done in the last 7 years of owning the car, and I still have 3 more calipers/lines to do

HAPPY HAPPY


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## balashark (Mar 24, 2012)

Get it bled with a pressure bleeder. No messing and will be perfect. No air in the system


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## blitzman (Mar 14, 2006)

As balashark says.
Also NOT a good idea just sticking on an old BMC without checking it out first.
Good to hear things are better though.


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Ok, its time for bed, and this is likely the reason Im missing something - 

How does a pressure bleeder, NOT introduce air into the system - 
Using compressed air to force brake fluid into the reservoir doesnt make sense to me - 

I have watched youtube videos SHOWING it WORKS
but I dont get it :/


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

carlsworth said:


> Ok, its time for bed, and this is likely the reason Im missing something -
> 
> How does a pressure bleeder, NOT introduce air into the system -
> Using compressed air to force brake fluid into the reservoir doesnt make sense to me -
> ...




DOH 
What a monkey - 
Ive bought a pressure bleeder, and it OBVIOUS how it works - so simple


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

UPDATE

Brakes are now AWESOME

YAY to me, and BOO to the toss piece mechanic that said "they're perfect"
and I had to use the handbrake to get home


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Glad its all sorted!!

TT


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## carlsworth (Aug 4, 2006)

Thanks to you TT and everyone else that helped get it sorted 
"thumbs up"


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

Any pictures? Would like to buy one of these BM57 to fit on my R32. DO you have any pictures of the fitment on to the brake booster servo?


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

What is the main difference apart from pedal feel? Does it take less amount of effort to apply the brakes? I'm thinking of doing this mod, I've removed my abs but the standard brakes still don't feel that good.

Was scary driving when the abs went on my car, I'd push the pedal and it would take years to stop!


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

CSB said:


> What is the main difference apart from pedal feel? Does it take less amount of effort to apply the brakes? I'm thinking of doing this mod, I've removed my abs but the standard brakes still don't feel that good.
> 
> Was scary driving when the abs went on my car, I'd push the pedal and it would take years to stop!


What was the reasoning behind removing your abs?
Mine has only ever kicked in in the snow, never had it in wet or dry conditions yet and was wondering about binning it


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

rogerdavis said:


> Any pictures? Would like to buy one of these BM57 to fit on my R32. DO you have any pictures of the fitment on to the brake booster servo?


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

wildboy said:


> What was the reasoning behind removing your abs?
> Mine has only ever kicked in in the snow, never had it in wet or dry conditions yet and was wondering about binning it


It was on it's way out tbh. I remember braking really hard (from speed) one day after some twat turned in my way. The next day I noticed brakes weren't as good. Fluid was leaking from the abs. I decided to bin it. I believe that if you know your car, brakes, hanlding etc you can brake a lot more faster efficiently than abs. Weighs quite a bit and managed to get rid of them ugly brake lines.


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks mate seems to fit just like the std one


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

CSB said:


> What is the main difference apart from pedal feel? Does it take less amount of effort to apply the brakes? I'm thinking of doing this mod, I've removed my abs but the standard brakes still don't feel that good.
> 
> Was scary driving when the abs went on my car, I'd push the pedal and it would take years to stop!


All modern cars have ABS nothing wrong with having it for road and track. There must have been something wrong with your setup. Did you bleed the ABS block? must have had air in the system. My R32 had a std BMC with with R33 Brembos and that worked pretty well even on track days and didnt feel any long pedals or spongy brakes. The important thing is its bled properly and make sure you use braided hoses.

My plan to get a BM57 is just for bit more over the std BMC


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## Gaz. (Mar 4, 2013)

ABS is great until you're going backwards on grass at a circuit...


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I managed to get a BM57 over the weekend and have fitted it today went straight on without any bother, except the problem was with the funny shape plate that I now know goes in front of the BMC mounting holes and not behind as it was fitted by someone in Japan.

Can someone please confirm the brake bleeding order?


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

^^start off with the caliper farthest from the ABS, then do the ABS last


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

Anyone tried a pressure bleed kit or a one man bleed kit with one way valves?


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

^^ i used the one-man one way bleed kit. its ok to use. just dont step on the brake pedal too fast as the bleed kit hose connecting the bleed nipple will get loose then youll have to start all over again. good for the money though, i think £3 each. just take it easy and buy at least 2 sets (1 set for two calipers) as the hose gets slippery and looses its grip.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

RL RR FL FR? Is that right order to bleed ? What fluid is good to use ? Was thinking Motul 5.1


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