# Gearboxes - Real Statistics - Let's cut through the poop



## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

If you own an R35 please post details of your use and whether you have or have not had gearbox issues.


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

you wont get all the facts. majority of these incidents are people who never use the internet, hence why they messed up the trans in the first place. cause they were to stupid to check the warning signs.


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## nidge (Jun 3, 2008)

this would be very useful information to know, however would the USA not be the best place to have this thread? :sadwavey:


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

No. Because from experience they have driving retards like you couldn't possibly imagine.


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## nidge (Jun 3, 2008)

R33_GTS-t said:


> No. Because from experience they have driving retards like you couldn't possibly imagine.


Point taken:bowdown1:


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

lol, he is right. they dont listen, educate themselfs before they buy, they dont read manuals, they love to show boat. not that others dont, i see alot of this in other countries too.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

I've heard news that Nissan are working on gearbox cooling. Is this just a rumour?


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

rummors. it could be true, but would it fix the problems? i dunno.

garage saurus are working on a trans cooler. they remove the water cooler that is suppose to cool the trans and water temp is cooler and with the new pump they setup for the trans cooler it does run cooler. They are still doing testing right now, so more info later.

other compaines are also working on this (us and jpn), but i havent heard much of anything off the drawing boards yet.

zele said they didnt make one because of a drop in preasure, so instead they released a diff cooler, also note that the nismo R35 that raced in 24 hour race had a diff cooler too.


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

I'd be keen to know if it's really heat that's doing the damage. I would suspect not. Would imagine it's the high forces on the actual cogs themselves. 480bhp applied SUDDENLY across 4 wheels at standstill...


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## mavrick (Mar 7, 2008)

There are already people on another forums posting about the new GTR And there chocolate Gearboxes.. 
If the New gtr is having problems with stock bhp what happens when you start upping the bhp ?


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## Scrappy (Sep 22, 2003)

What forums? the NAGTROC?


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

US again

So when I was there there was few comments about the funny auto box (R35GTR)

now they are playing with using paddles but a lot (not all) think shifting like Fast and Furious 2 is the way.

you force it up and down in R mode its not going to last with LC as well


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

maybe if the car cost as much as a porsche turbo or ferrari f430 then people wouldn't be so quick to do drag tests and launch control starts. i'm sick of hearing how people are just abusing the crap out of the car then complaining how fragile it is. 

i'm now wishing nissan made this car cost another $50k just so the riceboys couldn't get their hands on it.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

I'm American and am somewhat embarrassed at the mindset shared by many so typically labeled as such; so far everyone's comments here are very down-to-earth and follow common sense. 

then go over to the American forum and read the absolute reverse of this; there is a widespread mentality of entitlement to be as negligent as possible and then have others pay for it. Very much like the foregin policies of my government. 

carry on....


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## Doom (Feb 10, 2004)

I love the stereotyping of all US owners. I'm not a GTR owner, but quit saying that all of us are stupid hooligans wearing our cap backwards with gold chains beating the hell out of our cars. I've had lots of cars, raced them with knowledge and have never broken a single car. The whole point of the transmission thing is, why would Nissan put a thing such as launch control in if the car could not handle it? 

Answer: Impress the car magazines when testing. Lame by Nissan.


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## nidge (Jun 3, 2008)

would the official UK dealers amongst us care to comment on any official word from Nissan? My ears ring with their silence


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## Paul_G (Apr 4, 2008)

Well, I've read all of the stuff about this matter and this is how I see it:

> Nissan giving the facility to use a LC function (albeit hidden) was a serious blunder. I think the car the would have still sold without it.

> However, we all know the rules now, just live with it and enjoy the car. I'm sure the LC novelty would wear off after a while anyway.

> Abusing a performance car is all about risk. Especially if you are launching a 4WD car. Evo owners know this all to well, and many burn out their clutches after a few launches. However, they are only risking 1k to get their clutch changed, so the outcry is a bit less. With a GTR you're risking 10k, so don't do it!

No doub't Nissan will continue to develop the car including the Tranny, but don't expect someone to pay for a new one at the moment or in the future if you launch it. I'm sure this is not unique to Nissan.


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

LC is merely exposing a serious weakness in the gearbox. Even when not using LC, the gearbox is going to be wearing away considerably I'd imagine. So if you're using your GTR on a daily basis, then after 3 years the box fails, you're f*&£&ed.

The way I see it is that LC will only make it fail SOONER. I will not be able to drive this car without fear of destroying something.

Remember, there are 7 places in the service manual for a replacement gearbox!

For the record, I don't ever see myself using LC, even once.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

It may not be major weakness tbh ,If launch control is set up to be pretty much the perfect 0 to 60 time then it's set up like the perfect drag racing release or thereabouts .How long would a clutch/box last on a standard ish gtr 33 or 34 if you dragged it every other week .


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

If you do drag starts in any car more than a few times, expect to damage the drivetrain.

If you want to launch a car quickly you rev it up and drop the clutch.....a very stupid thing to do especialy with 4 wheel drive, high weight and sticky tyres.

I would be surprised if a car didn't break, so what is the problem???

Nissan say do not put in LC mode in the manual unless in LOW grip conditions apparently (R35 owners please confirm).

Nissan have developed the car over many years and carried umpteen durability tests before releasing it, so I bet it is plenty strong if not repeatedly abused.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

I'm sure if you look at any high performance car and have a berk driving it you'll knacker the gearbox (in a manual car). Any gearbox will wear out over time just like any clutch or set of tyres. You don't see people crying to Dunlop (or whoever) because their tyres are bald after 20 burn outs do you!


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## Jon Wan (Aug 11, 2008)

LC is good thing for some one need to destroy their trans in trade of drag strip time but it need a good manage and information for another one who just curious about secret technique.


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## mavrick (Mar 7, 2008)

mavrick said:


> If the New gtr is having problems with stock bhp what happens when you start upping the bhp ?


Can somebody answer the above..?


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

You up the bhp, you stress the engine/trans/breaks/...! You're always going to lose your warranty if you mod.


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## Paul_G (Apr 4, 2008)

mavrick said:


> Can somebody answer the above..?


What info do you have re the stock car having issues with std BHP? AFAIR the issues have been primarily with people launching their car. AS GT_Racer states, mod the car and you lose the warranty. With Scoobies\Evos and the like, you might be able to get away with it in the past if you had a friendly dealer, but in this case it seems Nissan are sticking to the letter of the warranty due to the complexity of the car and the need to replace very expensive parts.
Manufacturers are wising up to the modding scene. Take the EVO X. Reflash the ECU and your warranty is toast. Previously you could probably get away with it.
Currently it appears that relatively mild mods such as use of the COBB AccessPORT are holding up well in the states. As usual with any new car it will take a while to find the limits of the stock engine. Me, I have usually modded my cars, but this time I havent got a spare 10k lying around to fix a tranny, so mine will be staying stock, at least until the warranty expires.....


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## Voe (Jan 17, 2008)

Ok, I’m all for Nissan denying claims if the car has been abused, but why don’t they give us the dealer option to just remove it from the car software all together. Then there is no confusion at all.

What happens if....

My GTR is due to turn up in April and as such will be one of the first to the dealer. If you were one of the mechanics who unpacked the monster and got it road ready, what’s the first thing this young excited petrol head is going to possibly do on the test drive? See how fast it can launch.... (No disrespect intended to the mechanics but I’m sure you’ll agree... there’s always one)

So potentially, the car is out of warranty before I even take delivery of the car and sign the documents.

If for some weird reason my tranny fails in 5 months time and the 2 nissan guys turn up with their software and tell me it’s been launched and I have no warranty... who is obliged to prove the other is wrong?

Is it up to Nissan to prove to me that it was launched on xxx day xxx month xxx year at exactly xxx oclock? 


Or is it up to me to take Nissan to court to deny that I ever used launch control?


Same thing for servicing when you hand it over to the dealer for the day and who knows what happens to it....

And every single second hand unit will have to be sold assuming there is no manufacturers warranty. The seller saying ' yeh, it's never been launched mate' isn't going to be believed by anyone other than the stupid and gullible. How can we ever prove it's not been launched?


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## Paul_G (Apr 4, 2008)

I agree. I think the only option is to disable it. However, I have yet to determine if Nissan can actually tell if a car has been launched with the current software? Why does the US warranty only mention VDC? Is this because the black box doesn't actually register that the driver has used the correct combinstion of settings that are needed to launch the car? So, instead they have to look for VDC OFF which is needed for a launch?

Irrespective, for peace of mind I would like the function disabled and the HPC's to have the abilty to print out a history of LC\VDC off at time of handover.


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

so if I move the switch up to race mode (on a track) its find but I move it down to switch it of VDC by mistake, that's it the warrentee gone...

how can they check this as it only stores certain info for x amount of time.


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

It would be nice if the dealer could offer a certificate to show a popential seller that it's not been launched. As for a mechanic doing an LC, I'm sure all the data is timestamped, so this would be easy to prove.

It's not great for resale value is it. Would you trust a seller on word alone that the car hasn't been launched!? If for sure wouldn't. 

*** Nissan - Please provide an indicator on the display that informs the number of times the car has been launched (and when). This is the only way you'll be able to help owners with their residuals. ***


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

Please "+1" if you agree that Nissan should provide this data ON SCREEN.


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## Voe (Jan 17, 2008)

Personally I would be happy with a simple usb port to download the basic usage history electronically. Even if it were something only the dealer could do to prove to me nothing happened to the car while in their care that could cause my warranty to be void.

that could also be used in the sale of the car to prove to potential buyers that the car is 'clean'

I don't care how they do it... but something is needed


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Robbie J said:


> so if I move the switch up to race mode (on a track) its find but I move it down to switch it of VDC by mistake, that's it the warrentee gone...
> 
> how can they check this as it only stores certain info for x amount of time.


Nope. If you use LC and break it then that isn't covered. Just switching VDC off will not "void" the warranty. You cannot "void" the warranty anyway only those parts which are directly related to the "unfair" usage. ie if you use LC 5,000 times and the doors fall off the doors will still be covered by the warranty.


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## doggiehowser (Oct 8, 2007)

Robbie J said:


> so if I move the switch up to race mode (on a track) its find but I move it down to switch it of VDC by mistake, that's it the warrentee gone...
> 
> how can they check this as it only stores certain info for x amount of time.


You have to press down and hold the traction control for a few seconds before it switches to VDC Off.


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

I know...

I've switched but not launched it. Would that count

There is a CF slot to download as well as upload music


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## Armed English (Mar 18, 2008)

Cris said:


> Nope. If you use LC and break it then that isn't covered. Just switching VDC off will not "void" the warranty. You cannot "void" the warranty anyway only those parts which are directly related to the "unfair" usage. ie if you use LC 5,000 times and the doors fall off the doors will still be covered by the warranty.


Not fit for purpose mate :chuckle:


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

Robbie J said:


> I know...
> 
> I've switched but not launched it. Would that count
> 
> There is a CF slot to download as well as upload music


are your referring to the warranty? cos i did'nt think you had one....


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

yes I know


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## nidge (Jun 3, 2008)

Voe said:


> Personally I would be happy with a simple usb port to download the basic usage history electronically. Even if it were something only the dealer could do to prove to me nothing happened to the car while in their care that could cause my warranty to be void.
> 
> that could also be used in the sale of the car to prove to potential buyers that the car is 'clean'
> 
> I don't care how they do it... but something is needed


I agree with this. I have written to my dealer and asked what can be done to prove a car has not been launched. Viewing dealers, please take this on for us. Write to Nissan UK and have them loby on our behalf:lamer:


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## tokyogtr (Feb 14, 2008)

i'm pretty sure they're going to be looking for errors that occured DURING the VDC being switched off. so even if you clear the error code it will still be logged that an error occured whilst the VDC was off. that's why they don't specifically say LC, they keep referring to VDC. just a guess.


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## nidge (Jun 3, 2008)

tokyogtr said:


> i'm pretty sure they're going to be looking for errors that occured DURING the VDC being switched off. so even if you clear the error code it will still be logged that an error occured whilst the VDC was off. that's why they don't specifically say LC, they keep referring to VDC. just a guess.


Thanks. I would say thats a good guess. As long as we can run a program that highlights the use (or non use) of VDC then we can prove to potential buyers of used cars that a perticular example has not been launched. I think that this is important for residuals


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

or you could do what I'm going to do with mine....not launch it but not sell it either. Just keep it


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## Cid_Casterwick (Apr 16, 2007)

bonzelite said:


> I'm American and am somewhat embarrassed at the mindset shared by many so typically labeled as such; so far everyone's comments here are very down-to-earth and follow common sense.
> 
> then go over to the American forum and read the absolute reverse of this; there is a widespread mentality of entitlement to be as negligent as possible and then have others pay for it. Very much like the foregin policies of my government.
> 
> carry on....


100% Agree


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## ZXTTdriver (Jul 26, 2003)

*You're missing the point*

You're all so hung up on proving if a car has been launched - all the software does if work the controls for you, ie Brake, accelerator and clutch - you can work these for yourself using the footpedals and geat shift!

So if you drive the car hard and drop the power from standstill a lot you're going to wear the car out more than if you don't - not too surprising!

Now if the debate is about whether or not this car breaks when you drive it hard and if Nissan can wriggle out of warranty claims because people drive it quickly (!) then that's a different matter. How can Nissan stop you from driving this car quickly - it's kind of what it's for after all - I can go slow in my BMW M5!!!!:chuckle:

At the Silverstone track day they had 12 cars doing 4 shifts of 5 drivers in the morning and same again in the afternoon for around 20 days I understand. We did some rolling starts, but from close to standstill on the sprint lap, each driver having around 4 turns each. Nissan told us that the cars used would be scrapped after the event to avoid an unsupecting buyer getting a worn-out car - but even so they were getting some serious abuse. 

Now maybe someone on here would know if there was a transmission failure during their Race Academy drive (?), but the PR machine told us that there hadn't been a single car failure during the event. (Then they also told us they were aveaging 4 miles to the gallon on the circuit too!)


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## Daggie (Jun 24, 2008)

ZXTTdriver said:


> but the PR machine told us that there hadn't been a single car failure during the event. (Then they also told us they were aveaging 4 miles to the gallon on the circuit too!)


Well .. I'll show you some pictures of a car where all 5 wheels lugs broke and the wheel came off ... I'll post them tonight, at work now.

I have GT-R on order for August 2009 .. and I'm in doubt .. Not because of the car, but because of Nissan's view on warranty. I mailed my local dealer. We'll see how it goes from there ...


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

How long does an F1 car last ? Ok so that is a bit of an over the top comparison but it's still partly true for super and high performance cars on a smaller scale . F1 cars are built by the best techs in the world and they can fail off the bloody grid after a few warm up laps and 1 days qualifing .Anyone that thinks they can buy cars like the 35 and rag the **** out of them and expect them to live for ever is retarded ,I know of a couple of 35's that have been given a very hard life continualy and are still running fine with pleanty of miles on the clock too. You will always get odd cars of any make and power that fail on something ,more than one fails and the whole internet is awash with comments like the gear box is shite:bawling:


By the way ,did you know the brakes on the GTR 32 explode


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## Ryu H. (Jul 3, 2008)

But an F1 is made to last 1 or 2 races. It's not a street car were it should be made to last for years.


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## ZXTTdriver (Jul 26, 2003)

Exactly - there's a fit for purpose issue here - raised earlier in this thread.

If there are switches on the dashboard then they have to work, and using them cannot be contrary to the warranty! - just doesn't make sense does it. You can't build a product for consumption by the general public and fit it with a button labelled 'don't touch this button!'


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

the switchs do work. and they work when they require there attention. the manual spacificly states dont use them unless you need them in that situation, or it will void the warrantee.

plus you can use the car with vdc off. it just wont warrantee damage thats caused from abuse if you abuse the car when the vdc is off. in fact even if its not abuse, its use at your own risk. BUT i havent seen that yet, i have only seen abuse causing any issues.

so dont do 20+ launchs in the first 2000miles like these retards did.


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## nidge (Jun 3, 2008)

Does anyone know if a gearbox has failed outside the USA? Be interesting to know.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Ryu H. said:


> But an F1 is made to last 1 or 2 races. It's not a street car were it should be made to last for years.




As I said on an earlier post ,launch control is like drag racing ,take any of the previous gtr's to the pod and see how long their standard box's and clutch's last .Just because the 35 will cost loads more to fix is irelevent .As you said the 35 is a street car, Lc is better for track if it's going to be used alot .


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

gearbox has failed all over the world. in jpn and dubai and usa. i dunno of any other places atm. BUT... only from abuse. there were early issues that are covered under warrantee, like the pump didnt work to circulate the oil and caused the tranny to not have any oil (hence you should keep tabs on the oil ammount by hand cause the ecu didnt detect the loss of oil).

but this has been fixed since if you have taken your early gt-r in.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Yeah I heard it was the 2007 cars that had a few problems.


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## Scrappy (Sep 22, 2003)

Just nicked this off NAGTROC:-

_*I posted the LC/tranny issue and the 1G bill on tranny oil issue on the German GT-R Club forum.

One Member is Markus Broemmler, Nissan Performance Center owner and THE man for GT-R s in Germany. He was the first to import R33s, R34s and S15 Silvias and made them street legal over here. Also a lot of experience also on the tuning side.

He was the one who is responsible for "at least" Porsche prices on GT-R brakes in Germany, before it was 425% over Porsche´s price tags.

He had interesting news on the forum.

He imported a JDM GT-R of the first series to be the first to develop mods in Germany, and of course, to sell them.

He says he did about 20 to 30 LC launches ( all with a big smile irock.gif ) because he did not know about the probs and he just did a 10,000 km engine oil change.

He was lucky, because he had a qualified conversation at about 15,000 km. One day before Race Academy on The Ring, he spoke with the German head of development of the Spec-V and he said that Nissan knows about the first trannies being "not 100% safe under heavy driving conditions", meaning that they could malfunction if they were not serviced properly or were multiply launched in a row. These cars need a clutch wheel adjustment regularly which is done by a software update.

Ask your local NPC about that. Or maybe the recent recall did the job.

The European versions will get modified trannies from the first car on. Maybe thats why they stopped the production lines temporarily.

And the last word about the price of the tranny oil is not spoken yet. We have a good chance that this is the same oil that is used on the twin clutch Volkswagen...

Let´s see... *_


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

ZXTTdriver said:


> You're all so hung up on proving if a car has been launched - all the software does if work the controls for you, ie Brake, accelerator and clutch - you can work these for yourself using the footpedals and geat shift!


Not quite true. In normal mode, I don't think it's even possible to bring the revs up whilst the brake peddle is depressed, hence not possible to drop the clutch at high revs. Can anyone confirm?


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

Daggie said:


> Well .. I'll show you some pictures of a car where all 5 wheels lugs broke and the wheel came off ... I'll post them tonight, at work now.
> 
> I have GT-R on order for August 2009 .. and I'm in doubt .. Not because of the car, but because of Nissan's view on warranty. I mailed my local dealer. We'll see how it goes from there ...


One of our events at the 'Ring which had been done in the GTR at the Silverstone events was done in 350z's because of reliability issues (I was told by one of the instructors)


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

turbobungle said:


> One of our events at the 'Ring which had been done in the GTR at the Silverstone events was done in 350z's because of reliability issues (I was told by one of the instructors)


Which event was switched to the 350z's?


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

The R35 can overheat from excessive use. but thats about all i have seen. unless the people have been doing loads of launchs. all the press cars died at certain intervals because the press geeks kept using launch control as much as they wanted.


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

I've been reading this whole gearbox worry with interest as I also have a R35 on order for Dec 09. Prior to ordering my car i looked at both Porsche and Aston vehs and spent time on both of their forums. They are full of "gearbox" "overheating" "breakdown" and many more issues. As was said in an earlier post the internet forums condense all the problems but we see nothing of the many thousands of cars that are behaving properly. No matter what car you decide upon there will be some that breakdown or overheat or fall apart! P.S The BMW M5 has launch control - has anyone looked to see what there warranty says about it's use? One would assume Nissan would have to follow suit?


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

charles charlie said:


> Which event was switched to the 350z's?


Not sure, I assume it was the auto course thing


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## Armed English (Mar 18, 2008)

waltong said:


> I've been reading this whole gearbox worry with interest as I also have a R35 on order for Dec 09. Prior to ordering my car i looked at both Porsche and Aston vehs and spent time on both of their forums. They are full of "gearbox" "overheating" "breakdown" and many more issues. As was said in an earlier post the internet forums condense all the problems but we see nothing of the many thousands of cars that are behaving properly. No matter what car you decide upon there will be some that breakdown or overheat or fall apart! P.S The BMW M5 has launch control - has anyone looked to see what there warranty says about it's use? One would assume Nissan would have to follow suit?


 :thumbsup:


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## tomgtr (May 24, 2008)

If I am informed right M5 had a counter. 10 x LC = new clutch. Expensive hobby, but still better than blowing up the gearbox. But think after chaging the clutch once you are also done with the launches.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

now the reason for the concierge service is becoming apparent

they will be able to recover me from whether I come to rest 

:nervous:


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## ZXTTdriver (Jul 26, 2003)

turbobungle said:


> Not sure, I assume it was the auto course thing


At Silverstone on 22nd August we did the circuit, sprint and superpole in GT-Rs and only the drifting in the 350.

I don't think this was the case for every day at Silverstone as I've seen some footage on youtube of 350s being used for some elements.

I'm curious to know what the set up was at the ring - I was seriously tempted to go there, but settled for Silverstone in the end.


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

ZXTTdriver said:


> At Silverstone on 22nd August we did the circuit, sprint and superpole in GT-Rs and only the drifting in the 350.
> 
> I don't think this was the case for every day at Silverstone as I've seen some footage on youtube of 350s being used for some elements.
> 
> I'm curious to know what the set up was at the ring - I was seriously tempted to go there, but settled for Silverstone in the end.


We had 20 minutes each driving on the roads around the 'ring then circuit driving in Normal mode then some more circuit driving in R mode all in the GTR followed by the instructors' race, we then did Drifting on a skid pan and a figure 8 thing in a 350z, then a 'fast' ride in a 350z round the circuit, then an Ice simulator hill thing in the GTR. What did your Superpole and Sprint events consist of??


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## ZXTTdriver (Jul 26, 2003)

There are some strong similarities and some real differences then. 

For the circuit session in the GT-R we had 2 laps of the South circuit with the instructor driving before switching. We drove a few laps in normal mode then a few more with a race set up, then we switched back for the 2 lap instructor race.

Next my group had the Sprint in the GT-R - this was a very short circuit laid out on a car park with cones. The goal was a sub-20 second time. We had a slow rolling start then a mad blast, the aim to keep the racing line and breaking points to acheive a fast tidy lap. In all we got about 5 or 6 goes and the last 2 were timed.

Next was the Superpole, also in the GT-R. A lot of laps of the Stowe circuit (clockwise) with the intructor in the passenger seat, trying to get tidier lines etc. Then we had a single timed lap on our own. Target time was around 37 or 38 seconds.

If you do a search on youtube with 'Nissan Race Academy' and 'Sprint' or 'Superpole' you'll find some clips from the data recorder that give a really good impression.

Lastly we had drifting in the 350 - a practice with the instructor dishing scorn and derision!, then a proper two attempts to get a decent 'swing'. Then the best effort of each group was rewarded with a passenger ride with the drifting instructor (who was a total nut job!) - again there's a very good youtube clip on there somewhere.


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