# GTR at goodwood.



## jasonp (Apr 14, 2003)

Next saturday at goodwood festival of speed the GTR is doing 1 Lap. Also im just waiting on some PR info about the car. Also dont bother buying an import the UK spec has got a few extra goodies


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## mruk (Dec 6, 2006)

any links to where you've got this information... I'd hate for people to trek down especially to see it there on the evidence of hearsay


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## jasonp (Apr 14, 2003)

I spent the weekend at Le-mans with the PR guy, im hopeing he is going to e-mail me more info, but ive now got my ticket for saturday as he knew alot and has driven the car at the nurbergring recently.

Also the price is very near the 60k mark he said and not over.

Its PR stunt by nissan as porsche are doing something.


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## Shakey Finch (Jul 5, 2005)

Looks like Jason is right.

Got this off the GW website;

Several extraordinary cars from bespoke manufacturers will also take their first drive in public at the Festival. The amazing 200mph F1-inspired Caparo T1 – designed, developed and built by a squad of ex-McLaren engineers – will make its long-awaited active debut alongside the equally stunning Hulme CanAm from New Zealand. It is expected that other first sightings in the UK will include the Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione, the Nissan GTR concept car and the fantastic special-bodied Ford Mustang by Italdesign.


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

I'll be there. Should be an interesting weekend then


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

I`m going up the hill in the supercar class on Sunday.......Maybe the GTR will run in this class?


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

I wonder if it will still have the front and rear covered up?


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Is it only there on the Saturday then ?


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

there's talk it will be unmasked.


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## jasonp (Apr 14, 2003)

Unmasked and only saturday so ive been told. Im waiting on a e-mail from the guy with the final spec and some brochure pictures.


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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)

I think it is going to be the concept GT-R that has been showed at various auto shows already, not the masked production version we have been seeing spy pics of recently.


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## jasonp (Apr 14, 2003)

Its not the concept, it is a finished car so ive been informed. This is the car which has been used for advertising and speed testing, which i should have more info on soon.I was told who was driving it but cant remeber his name, i know he is a big wig in nissan.


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## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)

nooooooo, im going on friday


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## Rising sun (Sep 15, 2005)

yeah, that's a bloody lie.


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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)

Shakey Finch said:


> Looks like Jason is right.
> 
> Got this off the GW website;
> 
> Several extraordinary cars from bespoke manufacturers will also take their first drive in public at the Festival. The amazing 200mph F1-inspired Caparo T1 – designed, developed and built by a squad of ex-McLaren engineers – will make its long-awaited active debut alongside the equally stunning Hulme CanAm from New Zealand. It is expected that other first sightings in the UK will include the Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione, the Nissan GTR concept car and the fantastic special-bodied Ford Mustang by Italdesign.


Do you have a link where you found this on the GW website? I can't find it.


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## jasonp (Apr 14, 2003)

Just been informed there will be a GTR stand aswell at goodwood with more info.


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

jasonp said:


> I was told who was driving it but cant remeber his name, i know he is a big wig in nissan.


Hiroyoshi Katoh by any chance????

I'll have to contact _my_ Nissan sources.


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## trondhla (Oct 1, 2003)

Has the GTR been taken off? Can be beause the text as it is now goes:

Several extraordinary cars from bespoke manufacturers will also take their first drive in public at the Festival. The amazing 200mph F1-inspired Caparo T1 – designed, developed and built by a squad of ex-McLaren engineers – will make its long-awaited active debut alongside the equally stunning Hulme CanAm from New Zealand. It is expected that other first sightings in the UK will include the Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione, and the fantastic special-bodied Ford Mustang by Italdesign.

Goodwood Online

Anyone??


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

if thats true then i'm going to have to get my rear end down there!!!


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## Rising sun (Sep 15, 2005)

It wasn't taken off..it was never there...someone made it all up. Bloody nonsense


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Rising sun said:


> It wasn't taken off..it was never there...someone made it all up. Bloody nonsense


Is that a fact????


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## jumpman023 (Sep 29, 2005)

who made it up? and was it on the website, or only on this forum?


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

I read it on the Goodwood FOS website myself yesterday - and it DEFINITELY mentioned the "Nissan GTR" being there. 

They have indeed edited the text since yesterday evening.


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## Arch5 (Jun 19, 2007)

I concur. I read the words "It is expected that other first sightings in the UK will include the Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione, *the Nissan GTR concept car *and the fantastic special-bodied Ford Mustang by Italdesign." directly off of the Goodwood site.

They have now edited the text for some reason.


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## Shin (Jul 4, 2001)

Hi there,
Definitely it's true.
Currently, I've been told that the car will be masked one which was testing at Nurburgring recently.

I can't be there, so please send me pics etc if you guys will be there!

Regards,

Shin


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

Shin said:


> Hi there,
> Definitely it's true.
> Currently, I've been told that the car will be masked one which was testing at Nurburgring recently.
> 
> ...


Nice to hear from you Shin. Hope you are well.
I hope someone can video it on it's run up the hill.

OT - Why don't you come down to one of our Daikoku (or other) meets ? Would be good to see you.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

wow, interesting news, who ever goes take a good quality cam with yah, and video cam too, no crappy mobile phone videos!! 

damn wish i could make it, grrr.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

> Hi there,
> Definitely it's true.
> Currently, I've been told that the car will be masked one which was testing at Nurburgring recently.
> 
> ...


Hello Shin........wonder if your have time to e-mail or ring me with regards your outstanding invoice with us @ Abbey. I am off to Japan later on in the year on business and I will be wanting to speak to you.

Mark


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## Shin (Jul 4, 2001)

Do you mean you want me to disclose what you have done on my car!?
I hope you not.


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Shin,

Long time no hear!!!  You should come here more often. 


Anyway, I have talked to our sources,...............:nervous: :nervous:


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

Scott said:


> Shin,
> 
> Long time no hear!!!  You should come here more often.
> 
> ...


Is this good or bad??


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## C_h_a_z (May 8, 2004)

I'm going on Sat, I'll take some pics if I see anything.


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

I'm going on saturday. cant say any more than that 

SHIN, PM me your current e-mail ad, and i'll send you some pics.


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

was at goodwood today, no sign maybe tomorrow


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## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)

im going tomorrow, fingers crossed


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## skylineGTR_Guy (Mar 23, 2004)

bring your video cameras, DSLR's with telephotos and stop watches


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## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)

well, been today, no sign of it. Also quizzed the nissan bods there and they didnt have a clue, first replying "it isnt coming out till 2008". They had a rorange R32 GTR for some reason on their stand, together with a couple of micras and 350z's. very unimpressive!


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

> They had a ropey looking orange R32 GTR for some reason on their stand, together with a couple of micras and 350z's. very


So our old 32 was looking a little rough then.........Hmmmmmmmm


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## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)

i removed the ropey bit lol, dont want to offend:shy:


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## Spoons (Jul 6, 2005)

Just put up a thread for two free tickets for tomorrow if any one wants them.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

I spoke to the guy on the Nissan stand, who said "we have some new car coming out next year, but I don't know anything about it".

Mark - the orange car was looking fantasitc ... got a couple of shots of it, about to check how they came out.

The original post in this thread said the GTR would be there on SATURDAY .. so it's possible it'll only be displayed then.


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## Robbie 733 (Feb 25, 2005)

Molet and I did'nt see hide nor hair of it either.

Saw some bloke called Steve show us how to park an Aston though ...... 

Bajie was there taking notes !


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Yes, he parked that nicely. I also watched a rally driver park his Ford Focus WRC into a tree ! That was after I gave Mr Solberg some tips when I met him lol !!


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Spoons said:


> Just put up a thread for two free tickets for tomorrow if any one wants them.


  I have JUST paid £47 for my ticket online 5 mins ago.


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Spoons said:


> Just put up a thread for two free tickets for tomorrow if any one wants them.


Now you tell us Bryan!! :runaway: :runaway:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Well everyone, what do you want to know? Scott, Paul and I have taken quite a few pictures! Chatted to the Chief Designer and even got a private interview with the driver (on video). Other than that there will be a major write up and photos in the next edition of the magazine. Oh, and we've also agreed a deal where the GTROC will be allowed to accept deposits from members wishing to place orders for the new car!


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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)

^ So the GT-R was there?


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Er, yeah!

It is here tomorrow too. ;-)

£30 ticket in for sale section. B-)


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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)

Post up some pics!!

please


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Shame they didn't run it yesterday, I'd have liked to have seen it. Instead though I drove my own car home from Abbey's this morning - and enjoyed every single minute of it. The car no longer feels twitchy or nervous - it was a wonder to drive. I was grinning ear-to-ear all the way home.

Look forward to seeing your pictures guys.


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

Will the GTR run tomorrow? Supercar class?


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

Are you able to post pictures? Please say yes.


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

excellent news john,did you manage to get a peak at the car without the protective cover's on it?


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## Arch5 (Jun 19, 2007)

Scott said:


> Er, yeah!
> 
> It is here tomorrow too. ;-)
> 
> £30 ticket in for sale section. B-)



Is there a hint of sarcasm? Are you referring to the new GT-R?


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Yep, had a wonderfull day. Got sooo many shots of the new GTR...:squintdan 
As John says, unless i'm otherwise instructed, they'll be in a special edition coming soon.
Had the pleasure of meeting quite a few people today, including a very inquisative Mr Middlehurst :smokin:


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Photos will be in the Club magazine for anyone interested


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Fuggles said:


> Photos will be in the Club magazine for anyone interested


:smokin: , oh John, i still have your camera in my bag!!


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

I'm in the States. I won't be able to get the Club magazine.:bawling:


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Will Anders said:


> I'm in the States. I won't be able to get the Club magazine.:bawling:


Being an overseas paid member will grant you all the goodies, including the club mag.:smokin:


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

As a teaser to wet your appetite, here is the first view we got of it :smokin: :smokin: :


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

Oh, this is just not fair!!! How about just a front 3/4 shot? PLEASE!!!


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Will Anders said:


> Oh, this is just not fair!!! How about just a front 3/4 shot? PLEASE!!!


Here you are, a 3/4 shot just for you:


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

Nice! Thank you.


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## Rising sun (Sep 15, 2005)

I have reason to believe that is merely a GT-R Proto


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Rising sun said:


> I have reason to believe that is merely a GT-R Proto


Wrong  
We stood with the Chief designer today. Needless to say we know a fair deal now.


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## Arch5 (Jun 19, 2007)

OMG!!!!!!!! You are so lucky!!!

That is definitely NOT the proto. The black tape on the wheels is proof of it. It must have still been covered in the front and rear?


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Arch5 said:


> OMG!!!!!!!! You are so lucky!!!
> 
> That is definitely NOT the proto. The black tape on the wheels is proof of it. It must have still been covered in the front and rear?


Yep, front and rear covered up all day.


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## Arch5 (Jun 19, 2007)

Interesting. I'd imagine the inside was still a bit masked as well. Sounds like they just brought the mule "as-is" for a little of the "intimidation factor" for the other players in the _supercar_ classes.

Did they even start her up?


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

Did they give you a look under the hood?


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## kith (Jun 23, 2007)

Hi guys!

My first post here! I like what I've heard about and seen the new GT-R, thinking of it as my next car. Here is a pic from Goodwood (was a little disappointing that they left the disguise on).


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

The color looks darker than the test car photos seen at the "Ring".


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Looks ok I suppose ,cant see why all the cloak and dagger stuff with the front and back is still going on though .


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

kith said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> My first post here! I like what I've heard about and seen the new GT-R, thinking of it as my next car. Here is a pic from Goodwood (was a little disappointing that they left the disguise on).


Yeah. well done mate.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Paul, are you not going to post up any pictures at all ?

If you guys have found out more about the car are you not going to pass that information on ?


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

kith said:


>


Thanks for the shot :smokin: Just a shame they didn't run it yesterday or I'd have taken a bunch of shots of it.


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

Got anymore pictures of it? Post them up if you have, ta very much.


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## Demon Dave (Sep 15, 2002)

Any more pics and info???


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

I'm doing a proper write up for the day, and as far as pics go, John wanted to keep pics offline for a bit while we organised everything to make it a little more professional and informative.
Of course there are going to be plenty of pics posted over the next few days, but we have a collection of shots and some good PR with Nissan today which we thought would be much nicer for the people here.


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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)




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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)

Thanks to the UK 350Z owners club for the pics!!
Log In


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Nice pix from the 350Z guys! Thanks a lot for that.

Any snaps of the interior or other details?


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

Nice!! :smokin:


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Nice one Chuck - thanks for posting those up


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## trondhla (Oct 1, 2003)

What is the car like in real life?
Does it make an impression on you or is more or less like another average sportcoupe? Will it be a dead cat if it is park alongside a 911 turbo?


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## GTRJack (Aug 27, 2005)

oh yeah thanks man!


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

trondhla said:


> What is the car like in real life?
> Does it make an impression on you or is more or less like another average sportcoupe? Will it be a dead cat if it is park alongside a 911 turbo?


It has real presence, and if anything the 911 would look a 'dead cat' as its a shape everyones eyes have seen a million times!


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## sti50whp (Nov 28, 2006)

:thumbsup: 

im defo gettin 1 when i can afford it.


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## ChristianR (May 31, 2005)

looks nice - any videos of it in action so can hear the engine?


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

surely there are more pix and a few vids??


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

You would have thought so !

If i'd seen it there would have been pics and video posted up that very same night (as I know how much people want to see the car).


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

It ran up the hill again this morning. I was having too much fun in the Roush GT to take any pics though......


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Daz said:


> You would have thought so !
> 
> If i'd seen it there would have been pics and video posted up that very same night (as I know how much people want to see the car).


I agree. Pity to see any material not even coming from this forum!


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

DCD said:


> I agree. Pity to see any material not even coming from this forum!


.

My thoughts exactly.
I think Paul, Scott and John should post something - even if they keep the bulk back for an article later.


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

aaarrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!

when is the club magazine getting sent out to GTROC members then?


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## Will Anders (Jun 15, 2004)

I'd better hurry up and get my membership!!


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Mate of mine kindly sent me this picture. It was taken today at Goodwood.










Thanks "Nad" mate


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Bean said:


> .
> 
> My thoughts exactly.
> I think Paul, Scott and John should post something - even if they keep the bulk back for an article later.


Agreed, but i'm just doing as i was told.
Would you all post something if you were asked not to?


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## andreasgtr (Jul 2, 2003)

Yes, definately. I couldn't hold back


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Depends who asked me and what it was !

If the head of Nissan asked me not to post pictures of the new GTR then I POSSIBLY wouldn't. If it was just another club member trying to ensure the details only got seen by club members (like some sort of exclusive thing), then I'd post them anyway.

The car was at a PUBLIC event for the PUBLIC to see...why take it there if you don't want people to see it ?


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## r33 v-spec (May 24, 2002)

Daz said:


> Depends who asked me and what it was !
> 
> If the head of Nissan asked me not to post pictures of the new GTR then I POSSIBLY wouldn't. If it was just another club member trying to ensure the details only got seen by club members (like some sort of exclusive thing), then I'd post them anyway.
> 
> The car was at a PUBLIC event for the PUBLIC to see...why take it there if you don't want people to see it ?


Totally agree 

No doubt there will be pics on the internet regardless, but doing this kind of thing on a GTR forum is beyond me.


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Daz said:


> Depends who asked me and what it was !
> 
> If the head of Nissan asked me not to post pictures of the new GTR then I POSSIBLY wouldn't. If it was just another club member trying to ensure the details only got seen by club members (like some sort of exclusive thing), then I'd post them anyway.
> 
> The car was at a PUBLIC event for the PUBLIC to see...why take it there if you don't want people to see it ?



Yeah, thanks for the support Daz.  
Like i said, i was asked not to post them. Regardless of who it was, i was asked not to. I don't have a pecking oreder list of who i listen to and who i dont. I just do as people ask out of courtesy. Sorry you dont like other peoples methods, and sorry i couldnt post the pictures. What more can i say.


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## nismo2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Daz said:


> The car was at a PUBLIC event for the PUBLIC to see...why take it there if you don't want people to see it ?


I completely agree with this. There is no reason not to say things that we all have been waiting for and eager to talk about.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

paul creed said:


> Yeah, thanks for the support Daz.
> Like i said, i was asked not to post them. Regardless of who it was, i was asked not to. I don't have a pecking oreder list of who i listen to and who i dont. I just do as people ask out of courtesy. Sorry you dont like other peoples methods, and sorry i couldnt post the pictures. What more can i say.


It's not a swipe at you mate, just the way I see it. If the car was at a public event then I see absolutely no reason to hold back on the pictures. Nissan cannot expect to take the car to an event and for people not to photograph it - infact, I expect they wanted to whet the appetite of people. Everyone knows that the Goodwood FOS see's 100,000 people EACH DAY, if you don't want people to see the car, you don't take the car to such a massive event.

If someone from this forum has asked you not to post the pictures because they want only an exclusive set of people to see them (i.e. club members only) then, personally, I find that very childish. If I had been the ONLY person to have seen that car on Friday and got detailed pictures then you can guarantee that these people would have been asking me to post them.

I think it's a real shame that people would hold back on something that this whole community is based upon.

Please do not see this as a dig at you.....I think it's very good of you to keep your word to someone (in not posting pictures up) but I think it's sh1t that someone has asked you to do this in the first place (and if i'd been asked the same thing I know what my answer would have been - as it's not their car and they have no right to ask that of you).


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Daz said:


> Depends who asked me and what it was !
> 
> If the head of Nissan asked me not to post pictures of the new GTR then I POSSIBLY wouldn't. If it was just another club member trying to ensure the details only got seen by club members (like some sort of exclusive thing), then I'd post them anyway.
> 
> The car was at a PUBLIC event for the PUBLIC to see...why take it there if you don't want people to see it ?


Daz,

I am sorry you and others feel this way, but  the GTROC was given a hush hush tip-off, and through that we, as club organisers, have an obligation to our members to show them our photos and exclusive information first.

No one is stopping others from posting their pictures, as they have done so, but the GTROC is set up and run for its members, not the free GTR Register comunity. We owe our members that much.

As I believe the next *SkyLines* is going to press this week, so members, keep and eye on your door mate in the next couple of weeks.


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Daz said:


> If someone from this forum has asked you not to post the pictures because they want only an exclusive set of people to see them (i.e. club members only) then, personally, I find that very childish.




Well this is were we differ Daz!

Our members expect quite rightly something extra above and beyond access to the GTR Register, and this is what us GTROC Board members and Paul are delivering.

If you would like to see them that badly, membership is now offer on-line and joining will get you the next edition of SkyLines.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

How was the club given a "hot tip off" when other forums have photo's of the car, my mate has photo's of the car and the fact it was going to be there has been known throughout the week ? (it was even advertised on the Goodwood website).

Posting photo's of the car is not giving anything away. The fact you may now know more information about it I'm not interested in - chances of me owning one are nada. What I am interested in seeing is some good quality pictures - taken by friends (with the car in the UK) rather than some random spy shots from some random photographer (in another country).

When John comes out with :



> Well everyone, *what do you want to know? *Scott, Paul and I have taken quite a few pictures! Chatted to the Chief Designer and even got a private interview with the driver (on video).


what do you expect from people ?

It's not much of a Skyline community when people are holding back on the information they have obtained about the latest incarnation of the car is it.

I also do not think that this kind of thing will make people want to join the OC either...I think it'd have the opposite effect.


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

the things you lot will try to get some paid up members lol

you still hardcore PMSL


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## RobGalley (Jul 2, 2001)

Totally agree with Daz.

Attitude like this means I will never bother to join the GTROC...


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Daz,

And to think, YOU sent me a PM complaining about value for money the GTROC offered, and now you are moaning about this.
We took this on board and this is one of our replies. It was your choice not to renew and you made it!!!!

As for our Tip-Off, you have no idea what our comunication with Nissan was about, sure the 'public' new it would be there, but that was not it.



RobGalley said:


> Totally agree with Daz.
> 
> Attitude like this means I will never bother to join the GTROC...


Sorry, that is your choice.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Scott - if I was a club member, I would not expect this kind of thing to be kept exclusive to the club, far from it. This is the kind of thing I would expect to be opened out to the whole Skyline community - after all, it's why we frequent this place...to discuss the Skyline (in all it's guises). I certainly wouldn't expect to pay to be privy to some information.

My gripe about the OC was the simple fact that as a non-track day go-er and as someone who only uses one garage for ALL of the parts on his car (and therefore has no benefit in discount tyres from somewhere or discounts from demon tweeks or whatever) then the OC offered me nothing. My point in that PM was that IN MY OPINION there should be more done to offer people in my position more - so that we would want to join the club and want to contribute and help it grow.

Having yourself and John withholding information does not in any way make me want to re-join. I was always very keen to promote and represent the club and to a certain extent I still do - even as a non-member.

I still stand by what I said earlier...if others had got these "exclusives" you and John would be asking for it to be posted up.


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## RobGalley (Jul 2, 2001)

...well...Johns opening comment is "what would you like to know?"

So... I would like to know whatever you know!? 

If you are not going to give out the information, why announce it on the public area of the GTR register?!


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## nismo2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Doing this just means people will go elsewhere. I see now that paid subscriptions are more important than making current members (be it that they are members of the OC or not) here happy. I'm not really pleasant with the attitude here, trying to recruit members to join in exchange for a few pictures and information is childish. I'm not going to pay for that, I would pay to be more involved with the community. And even If I didn't pay, I could say Im part of this. I would re-evaluate things and as someone who has been to many forums and managed some, I would tell you that keeping current members who keep coming back for years is much more important than someone here who just pays an annual fee and calls themselves part of the Club. Many people here who have been posting for years and are much more involved than someone who doesn't ever come here but calls themselves part of the club (just because they pay and receive a sticker and a magazine). Disappointed to say the least.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Scott said:


> As for our Tip-Off, you have no idea what our comunication with Nissan was about, sure the 'public' new it would be there, but that was not it.


Just to pick up on this as you edited your post.

Did you share this "tip off" with all club members ? Do you share any of your communications with all of the members of the club ? Or was it another 'perk' of being in a board position on the OC ?

Sounds bitchy, but this is another example of certain people in the club "doing alright thankyou very much".


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Daz,

Yes it does sound bitchy!!! LOL  

We were asked to say *NOTHING* by our 'contacts'

You respect Paul for doing as he was asked, but not the GTROC for looking after its members!!! I can't figure that out.


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Some images. Should stop you all slating me for 5 mins at least.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

I'm disappointed in myself for carrying this on..but here I go anyway ! (lol)

If you were asked to say nothing by your contacts then John should not be making posts asking members of this forum what they want to know. You should have said absolutely nothing and then just printed it. If it was an attempt to get more people to join the club just so they could get your information then i'd be surprised if it works.

It was all well and good when Dino was posting pictures up for us all from Japan - when he got a chance to spend time alone with the car taking photo's. It wasn't a problem for him to post them up for us all back then - and tell us all about the car, but all of a sudden things have changed.


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Daz said:


> Sounds bitchy, but this is another example of certain people in the club "doing alright thankyou very much".


Actually Daz, i personally have to disagree on this. Scott, for one, i know does not attend as many events as he'd like because he purely cannot afford it, and for the amount of time he puts in to the merchandise, doesn't get any perks or privaledges.
John is probably one of the most unselfish, giving people i know. He was actually very apologetic for being the only one to be sent a VIP from Nissan. I don't know any other person on this entire forum who spends the amount of time and own personal money to benefit the club and juggle it around a full time and high pressure job. Not only that, but being without a job for 6 months and still striving to arrange meets,events,club issues etc, isnt what i would call "doing alright thankyou very much".
If anything, i benefit the most, but only from peoples unselfishness. You should try it sometime Daz, its quite a rewarding feeling.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Paul - I am in no way slating you. As previously stated I felt sorry that you were put in that position. Please do not take my comments as a personal attack on you.

As always your photo's are fantastic, and I thank you for sharing them.


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## andreasgtr (Jul 2, 2003)

Paul, thank you for sharing these pictures.
I think that's enough as all can see the car is still partly covered, so nothing new in that sense.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

paul creed said:


> If anything, i benefit the most, but only from peoples unselfishness. You should try it sometime Daz, its quite a rewarding feeling.


I'll take that on-board next time I'm organising something and all of the money raised goes to charity, or when I'm organising free events that take several months of preparation - done in my own time, with no benefit to me whilst also holding down a highly stressful full-time job.


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## GTRJack (Aug 27, 2005)

Lots of people flocking around the car and NO interior shots?


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## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

The interior was not the real deal. I dare say it will differ a great deal to the production car, but yes, there were a few shots, albeit quick ones, as they didnt want it being photographed.


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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)




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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)




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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

It was very difficult not to go public with this as the sources asked me to keep this highly confidential. The relationship the GTROC has with Nissan in Japan is quite exceptional and we would not want, for the sake of a few photos, to prejudice this relationship. As well as being a member of a thriving community and a very passionate enthusiast it is sometimes extremely difficult to know where to draw the line between that and the requirements of a club. The Club itself offers a list of benefits, advantages and priveleges to its members and we should recognise that any value derived by the Club should, in most cases outweigh the free membership of the forum. When the photos come out in next month's Option magazine, try ringing them and asking for a free copy of all the pictures! It's not about keeping things private for the GTROC or developing a culture of difference between the two it is about recognising those that are more dedicated, enthusiastic and supportive and rewarding that in ways that add value to the members.

I can, buut I wont, go into some other details about the car and what the GTROC is planning with regards the new car but needless to say this will unfold over time and members will be the first to hear and will most certainly be the most involved. Whilist I am sure some will disagree I apologise but still believe that this represents a fairer relationship between what the Club and the forum does for its members and users.

As for the puctures, there will be more posted here and in the Club's magazine and other 'publications'

Whether you agree or disagree thank you for your time in reading this and enjoy the pictures


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## bkvj (Feb 13, 2006)

i think it looks beautiful in your pics paul! i always thought it looked awkward and couldnt really like it...but now!! thanks!


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

John - I feel a mistake was made when you said (having just seen the car) "what do you want to know?", as this indicated that you were going to share information/pictures. But that is done with now.

All I was interested in was seeing a couple of decent pictures (which Paul has now provided). I certainly wouldn't phone up a mag to ask for copies of their pictures - seeing them in the mag would be good enough for me. I therefore also wouldn't ask for copies of any of yours, Paul's or Scott's pictures. I also expected the car would be masked in the same way as in the "spy shots" we've been seeing, so I wasn't expecting to see anything particularly new. My interest was simply seeing some pictures taken by members of this forum of the car in the UK.

Dino has always been very kind of posted up information he's obtained and many photo's that he has taken of the car - and he could quite easily have withheld this. Instead he chooses to share with this community instead.

I don't expect you to pass on details about the car ... to be honest, I'm quite happy to wait until the car is officially released to find out more about it (in terms of engine spec and other technical details).


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

I think it's Nissans fault anyway not asking the GTROC to print pics of the car when at a public event ,as of course pics are going to show up on every car forum in the land .Now if the the GTROC have pics of the car with out the covers on that would be special and worth waiting for ,if not Nissan have just opened a can of worms for no reason apart from making sure everyone on here is talking about the car :chuckle: 
Back to the GTR ,it looks ok from the back I think ,not really sure about its looking like a 60 grand car though ,if that is indeed the speculated price or there abouts. 
Thanks Paul for some nice shots though.


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

John, if Nissan GENUINELY asked you to keep quiet about the car and without pictures, then that is an absurd moment of madness that quite frankly defies all logic considering the public nature of the event - in hindsight I would have challenged the request.

I have to say (speaking from the heart) I agree with Daz. To see pictures of the car from the 350z lot instead of our own team who have had a heart-to-heart with the senior development team is disheartening and understandably provocative.

At the same time, I also understand the difficult situation you may have been put in if Nissan categorically asked you not to print photos (as crazy as that is) by way of risking your future scoops.

Still, the cat's out of the bag, the whole world has pictures, yet one of the worlds biggest GTR forums plays catch up.


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

Blow Dog said:


> John, if Nissan GENUINELY asked you to keep quiet about the car and without pictures, then that is an absurd moment of madness that quite frankly defies all logic considering the public nature of the event - in hindsight I would have challenged the request.
> 
> I have to say (speaking from the heart) I agree with Daz. To see pictures of the car from the 350z lot instead of our own team who have had a heart-to-heart with the senior development team is disheartening and understandably provocative.
> 
> ...


I was in no way trying to slate Paul - far from it - or in fact anyone else at all.
Cem has just stated exactly what I was talking about and, as I said, you don't have to post everything....


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## jasonp (Apr 14, 2003)

I still cant understand why anyone on here wasnt told about the car being at goodwood.

Im going to post everything i get told about on here from my guy in nissan, he doesnt seem to have any issues.


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

jasonp said:


> I still cant understand why anyone on here wasnt told about the car being at goodwood.
> 
> Im going to post everything i get told about on here from my guy in nissan, he doesnt seem to have any issues.


The Japanese seem to work in quite mysterious ways.


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## jae (Aug 28, 2002)

*Sheer Arrogance.*

John, so when you posted "what do you want to know" it was nothing more than a peurile boast to revel in your exclusive status. Because you must have known at that point you couldn't say anything because your contacts at Nissan had asked you not to. I do not expect this sort of behaviour from the chairman of the GTR owner's club.

Asking Paul to not post information and then letting him take the flak for a while was contemptuous and rude. He only posted photos because he was getting hammered - what sort of bloke lets a good friend take that sort of shit for him?

I am am paid up member of the GTR owner's club and I am disgusted at this faux secrecy. However, I would be more forgiving if you had stated clearly in your post that you had been given exclusive access but had been requested to say nothing for now.

Poorly done. Very poorly done. This club is going places I am not sure I wish to go. But that is something for my consideration.


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Blow Dog said:


> The Japanese seem to work in quite mysterious ways.


true


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## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)

what a dissapointing thread.


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## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)




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## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)




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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

What a very silly thread.

If the pictures should be anywhere, they should be here.

Why the pretence of confidentiality when it's openly on display at a public event (and advertised as such)? 

There are pictures of the Goodwood car all over the internet - I'm not going to pay to perform the GTROC secret handshake to see them when I can find more and better ones at the click of a mouse.

If Nissan didn't want the pictures there, I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have wheeled it out at one of the biggest car events on the calendar.

Phil


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

In all seriousness, if anything, our distress should be levvied at Nissan, not the GTROC.

Frankly, I'm pretty sick of it at the moment. I went to the largest Nissan dealership in the UK and had a discussion with their head of marketing. I told them who I represented and that I wanted to put a 'significant' amount of orders through them. They never returned my calls.

This is why I buy Porsches now as they do not give a damn really.

I mean FFS, who goes out at Goodwood with camouflage


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

i SSSOOO want one of these!!!!!


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## ISJ (Mar 11, 2005)

Absurd! Totally absurd.

If the GTROC had true "Scoop" pictures and details of interior, engine bay and pricing info, then fair enough about keeping the juicey bits for the magazine and not jepardising GTROC/Nissan Japan Relations.

*But* FFS holding back exterior shots of a car on public display is truely shocking. Those pics that have eventually been put up, are, frankly awful.

I'm off to join the masses searching others forums for decent pics, starting with the Zed forums!


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

My two cent to this brief public appearence:

Japanese press is guessing and pokering around the looks of the head lights, when on this public forum posted pictures you can see clearly, they aren`t round, oval or triangular . . .. like the japanese press is philosiphying about it.

This says just one big thing to me: Nissan has a big management-marketing problem, keeping the homeland press and clubs in the dark and at the same time , letting non japanese engineer teams driving the car on public events in the UK. . .absurd.

The GTR marketing and sales strategy will be the same way as all other Nissan products at the moment . . . .shit! 
Like Cem said it about the UK dealer, giving a god damn shit about potential customers, the japanese will be very carefull before buying this car, regardless how great it will be . . . Toyota rules Japan and with this kind of marketing jokes, the conservative japaneses customers will be waiting for a Honda and Toyota equivalent probably . . . .

Regarding the club issue, discussed on here, I will be placing an order the first day , the new GTR will be availble, trough our Nissan agent here in Japan, as we have some customers for the new GTR. So before any new GTR will be shipped outside Japan, as a grey export, it will be standing in my garage door. Then we will know what it is all about. So keeping secrets in the UK is absurd , as the car will be out in japan probably , before any dump Nissan dealer in europe will know how to spell GTR!


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## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

I love the Gun Metal Gray color scheme. It really shoots out the profile. Definatly a nice looking GT-R, however in my opinion, it's still to forward thinking.


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## BUG4LIFE (Jun 5, 2006)

I don't know what all the fuss is about - the pics don't show anything we haven't already seen.

Surely the new GTR was at Goodwood as a marketing tool, loads of potential new customers? All part of the build-up right...it's a good thing for Nissan that all these pics are appearing? I can't wait to see one with no covers on.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

These covers on the car thing is beyond a joke now ffs ,it's not like the second coming of Christ ,it's just a car that looks pretty damn much like alot of other cars these days. Who do Nissan think they are kidding with all there hype ,over 2 years down the line and we all know sh1t about this car ,so no point in trying to order one over here as no spec or nothing about differant models ,price ,avalability etc blah blah .Bet most people working forNissan Uk have never heard of it anyway


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## Hi5 (Aug 31, 2005)

I think nissan have done very well to keep it under wraps thus far. 

I also do not think it "looks pretty much like alot of other cars these days", I think Nissan have done a pretty good job with the styling!


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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)

Can anyone that saw the car this weekend say if it had paddle shifters or not?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Okay so let me put the record straight on a few things. Firstly there is no attempt of 'cloak n dagger' and there is no desire by the GTROC or any of its members to keep information from forum users or Club members. Of the 200+ photographs we have some are on film and will need developing but overall they need to be sorted to discard the ones that aren't very good. All this takes time.

The car was at a public show and it is fully expectant that GTROC members and Forum users would and should have access to the photographs and this we are doing. That people have missed the point on the delay of photographs is testament to the level of interest and as a dedicated forum we would not want that enthusiasm to be lost nor would we want the GTR Register's pre-eminent position to be challenged and for that reason we are sorting the photos and have already posted up some.

The comments on my desire to keep information priveleged is completely unfounded and anyone that knows me would find the suggestion ridiculous. Thus far I have received several PMs and emails on the car as well as one phone call asking specific questions. Where possible I have answered these questions and will be happy to do so to anyone that is interested.

In conclusion there will be plenty more pictures and we are sorting through them and will add information on the car to coincide with the pictures. The GTR Register and GTROC is, without doubt, the pre-eminent Skyline/GTR community and, as such we will do whatever is acceptable to retain that position and continue to provide information and detailed information and photographs as best we can.

Thank you


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Its all nice and stuff that people know things, but what difference does it make, majority of us have been waiting for this car since what? 2002, since the r34 was discontinued. What another few months gonna do anyway. 

I for one will just wait till its released and enjoy it, no sense in this "i know something that you dont" stuff. 

Eitherway, Lux is right, all they lucky people here that live in Japan are gonna get their hands on its real final specs and pictures etc, all before lots of us! :chuckle: 

So Lux, when its time, make sure you let us know what it drives like mkay:chuckle: 

Everyone needs to chilllll


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## Snowfiend (Jul 11, 2006)

> I for one will just wait till its released and enjoy it, no sense in this "i know something that you dont" stuff.





> all they lucky people here that live in Japan are gonna get their hands on its real final specs and pictures etc, all before lots of us!


Says the man sitting in the Z-Tune 

I'm sure you've got all the time in the world dude....LOL, lucky git 

I do totally agree with you though, chill people...it's only a car ! And one that most of us cant afford brand new anyway...LOL.


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## GTRJack (Aug 27, 2005)

All those pics! Come on where're the videos?


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## Pugwash (Mar 6, 2007)

It seems that the official 350zukOC have more exclusive info to this launch. They had exclusive pics weeks ago when invited to the tests at the ring, they got exclusive talks with the driver and the big cheif ages ago. along with launch dates.

Can anyone give me a good reason to join the GTROC. I am only interested in the new GTR, not the old, so what benefits, over the knowledge from the 350zukOC will I get?


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## SPEED MERCHANT (Jun 5, 2006)

Fuggles said:


> The comments on my desire to keep information priveleged is completely unfounded and anyone that knows me would find the suggestion ridiculous.




I agree with that statement as John was telling everyone at the BROMLEY PAGEANT who would listen all about the day, specs he had learned & what he'd seen etc. So I think a few on here need to be a little more literate.

As for the paddle shifts ... yes it does


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

Pugwash said:


> It seems that the official 350zukOC have more exclusive info to this launch. They had exclusive pics weeks ago when invited to the tests at the ring, they got exclusive talks with the driver and the big cheif ages ago. along with launch dates.
> 
> Can anyone give me a good reason to join the GTROC. I am only interested in the new GTR, not the old, so what benefits, over the knowledge from the 350zukOC will I get?


They weren't invited to the tests, they happened to be at the ring when Nissan went on another publicity stunt ride (I was also there on the same day). 

The 350z club just went papparazzi style on Nissan ass.


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

As usual a good thread crapped on nice one guys!!! :thumbsup:

I would not mind it Nissan had given us a £1000 grant to hand out to all GTR owners, and we have given it all to our members, robbing the rest of you. It's just a few nice hi res photos we had plans on doing something special for our members, who we are elected to look after.

And now look, it's turned into a slagging match, (again  ), as people think they have the right to the photo's I personally took with my personal camera at an event I personally paid the better part of £100 to attend.  

And before anyone says, and decent person would share, I do more than enough sharing/work for this club and forum spending at LEAST 3-4 hours a day, every day for almost 5 years trying to develop a club, jepodising my f**king marriage to a wife I love who is sick of the GTROC, only for people to slag it off as they once organised a few meets.    

*Unfortunately the voice we are not hearing at the moment is the 350-400 GTROC members, who are thinking, "Nice one, I'll be getting a few nice pictures through the post in a couple of weeks". *


And as for:



jae said:


> Asking Paul to not post information and then letting him take the flak for a while was contemptuous and rude. He only posted photos because he was getting hammered - what sort of bloke lets a good friend take that sort of shit for him?


For your information Jae, John was out all yesterday and last night and did not see you guys crapping up this thread!!!!! For a nice bloke, you really disgust me at times Jae with you opinionated ignorance!!!!!!uke: 


*
At the end of the day, these are only photos everyone, :GrowUp: :GrowUp: !!!! *


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

I was looking forward to seeing the photo's of the new GT-R on this thread, but alias no - personally I think displaying them on an inferior medium is not going to do the car justice. If they are so precious, why not just set up a members only section and post them up there. We should be the first, not last...

Where are the pictures? I need pictures. SHOW ME THE PICTURES!!!



I must be over tired. Busy weekend and all that!


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## Robbie 733 (Feb 25, 2005)

Blow Dog said:


> I mean FFS, who goes out at Goodwood with camouflage





Daz said:


>



Excuse me Mr Dog,.......... but can you see me in this photo ??????:chuckle:


And No, that's a Hodgie 'look-a-like' stalking round the back ....


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Scott said:


> And before anyone says, and decent person would share, I do more than enough sharing/work for this club and forum spending at LEAST 3-4 hours a day, every day for almost 5 years trying to develop a club, jepodising my f**king marriage to a wife I love who is sick of the GTROC, only for people to slag it off as they once organised a few meets.
> [/SIZE]


Scott - if you don't mind, I'd like to pick up on a few points here.

Firstly, I don't think anyone is questioning the amount of work you put in behind the scenes (nor John for that matter). I am sure you do put in some crazy hours for this club and I take my hat off to you for having that dedication. I do feel though that if you are finding the need to put that amount of time in every day of the week then you clearly need some assistance and it would seem sensible to me to have a position on the board to take some of that workload from you. Obviously that is for the board / club members to discuss, but to be putting any strain on your marriage because of time spent on the club is bonkers. An hour a night isn't so bad...but 3-4 hours EVERY evening is crazy.

I guess the other part is directed towards me...as I was responsible for organising meets in this area. In my opinion the situation was handled badly and I do not appear to be the only one who has this opinion (although you feel the need to single me out - perhaps you see me as inferior to Bean, DCD or Blowdog and easier to go off at....but whatever). The people that have shown their disatisfaction on this thread INCLUDE members of the club and not just non-members, so you ARE actually "hearing the voice" of club members - perhaps you are choosing to ignore that ?

This is a public forum, the car was at a public show and I am entitled to express my opinion (whether you like it or not). Yes I may have "only organised a few meets" in my role as Regional Rep (MANY Skyline only meets as well as the largest FREE Japanese car pub meet the country has seen - for 6 years, raising money for charity, working with many different clubs, liaising with local authorities, police, the village in which the meet was held over a number of months each time), but that doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid. 

If you wanted to ensure the members of the club saw this information first, then you could have made it VERY, VERY simple. You should have put a thread in the members only section posting pictures and passing on the information about the car. Nothing should have been said on the public forum. Then a couple of weeks later you could have passed the information down - knowing that club members had seen it first.

As it is, the bulk of people have found out information from different clubs and seen pictures of the car from different clubs - which as Cem has already pointed out is rather embarressing.

Why not listen to what people are saying, rectify the situation and learn from what has happened ?


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Robbie 733 said:


> Excuse me Mr Dog,.......... but can you see me in this photo ??????:chuckle:
> 
> 
> And No, that's a Hodgie 'look-a-like' stalking round the back ....


You could have painted the new GTR luminous pink and parked it behind them and I wouldn't have spotted it ! :chuckle:


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Daz said:


> ....Then a couple of weeks later you could have passed the information down - knowing that club members had seen it first.





Daz said:


> ....
> As it is, the bulk of people have found out information from different clubs and seen pictures of the car from different clubs - which as Cem has already pointed out is rather embarrassing.


Daz, if we did the fromer, as you suggest, the later would still have happened!!!! LOL  



Daz said:


> ...."hearing the voice" of club members - perhaps you are choosing to ignore that ?





Daz said:


> ....Why not listen to what people are saying, rectify the situation and learn from what has happened ?


We did!!! We listened to YOU and YOU asked for more for the members other than trackday!!!!!! Remember???????????????????????


Daz, These are photos of a car you have already seen. Please get over it!


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## SPEED MERCHANT (Jun 5, 2006)

Having read this whole thread now it all this CR*P & the general direction of downhill seems to have started from DCD's comment followed by after a few of Pauls posts DAZ ...

I agree with SCOTT, this whole thing was crapped on ...


:GrowUp:


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## jae (Aug 28, 2002)

*Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand here we go...*



Scott said:


> As usual a good thread crapped on nice one guys!!! :thumbsup:
> 
> For your information Jae, John was out all yesterday and last night and did not see you guys crapping up this thread!!!!! For a nice bloke, you really disgust me at times Jae with you opinionated ignorance!!!!!!


Opinionated? Yes. Ignorance? Hardly. I work from what I see. And I see people eagerly requesting information on the new GTR that has been withheld for marginally justifiable but poorly presented reasons. I also see a chap I have a lot of time for getting a lot of grief thrown at him for honouring a request from a friend. The fact that said friend was unavailable does not change the fact that the initial line "What do you want to know" should NEVER have been posted as John knew he could not deliver. This is the crux of the issue from my side. 

Finally, we agree on one item; a thoroughly crapped up thread.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

If I'm honest, all this crap on this thread is stupid :GrowUp: 

As pointed out by my other half, the bloody car looks RUBBISH! A poor cross between the new Audi TT and a 350Z uke: 

I know why Nissan keep it covered, it's fooking embarrassing! :nervous:


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## RobGalley (Jul 2, 2001)

The thread could easily be lifted by someone (in the know!) posting "some nuggets" of information and/or "some exclusive pics", with all credit going to the GTROC....

...and then it could be a healthy discussion about the brakes, 4wd system, engine, price, its lap times at the ring....you name it!

Unfortunately we dont know what we dont know


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## jae (Aug 28, 2002)

*Never let reality*



Trev said:


> If I'm honest, all this crap on this thread is stupid :GrowUp:
> 
> As pointed out by my other half, the bloody car looks RUBBISH! A poor cross between the new Audi TT and a 350Z uke:
> 
> I know why Nissan keep it covered, it's fooking embarrassing! :nervous:


Stand in the way of a good bitchfest.opcorn: 

It's a dog ugly mutha, but hey, it'll sell on past reputation alone.


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## Booty-licious (Nov 8, 2001)

Trev said:


> If I'm honest, all this crap on this thread is stupid :GrowUp:
> 
> As pointed out by my other half, the bloody car looks RUBBISH! A poor cross between the new Audi TT and a 350Z uke:
> 
> I know why Nissan keep it covered, it's fooking embarrassing! :nervous:


Loving your comment Trev.....LOL :smokin: 

Been away for a few days to come back to this. In house bickering......shame on you!   

Anybody wants to make a comment about the entry fee at this event go right ahead....bloody expensive!


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## Andy R32 (Feb 7, 2005)

Who was driving? Carlos Tavares?

Video up on you tube...

YouTube - Nissan GT-R

Andy


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## Chuck_H (Jul 28, 2006)

Back to GT-R talk....

It looks like a front mount ic in this pic, anybody happen to get a good look at it to say for sure?


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

I wanna listen to the car without all the tire squealing from the other ring vids, can anyone comment on how the thing sounds?


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

My suggestion.
I'm locking this thread. Somebody in the know should start another thread in here with all the photos we have.

This thread is bad for business


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