# Creaking sound from rear when applying brakes (even when stationary!)



## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

Hello everyone - long time lurker here whose sorry for making his first post a cry for help 

I was wondering whether you guys could help diagnose an issue that I've had with my MY11 GT-R, which for almost a year as evaded diagnosis by myself and Litchfields.

I get a strange creaking/clicking sound whenever the car is warm and I apply the brakes. It is unrelated to steering input.

When moving slowly (e.g. coming to a stop at junctions) it manifests itself as a clicking noise whose frequency is directly proportional to road speed.
When I'm stationary it's very much a creaking noise from both rear wheel arches which sounds like someone walking on an old wooden staircase. The more pressure I apply to the brakes, the longer I can make a particular creak last (if you know what I mean).

The car must be warm for either of these sounds to present, when cold everything sounds normal.

I know what you're thinking - it must be the brakes, of course!
Well perhaps, but I've had the following replaced on all four corners, all by Litchfield in a continued attempt to isolate this noise:

* Calipers (refurbished)
* Discs (Alcon, 400mm at front)
* Pads (Cosworth)

Last time I was there they suspected that it was something in the transmission causing the issue, but I can't see how _any_ transmission issue could cause a noise when the vehicle is stationary. But then again, I'm no expert - could someone explain how this may be possible as I'm currently loathed to pay the big £££ it will cost to physically delve into this one any further without first understanding how it could possibly be at fault.

Googling "GTR creaking brakes" gives me very little, which tells me that I'm somehow "special", and not in a good way!
So I thought I'd throw this to the community - any ideas people?


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

A few things to try - am sure others can add 

Take wheels /disc off and copper slip where they seat on the hubs and discs

I had a issue after fitting new pads where the pins rattled in the calipers - coated pins with silicone sealant = solved rattle

Newer cars have different spring clips on the rears to stop pad rattle

Check there is no movement from outer disc to the center carrier - Bobbins could be worn


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

Thanks for your response. Litchfield has already tried greasing the hub face quite liberally in order to fix this - unfortunately it had no affect whatsoever.


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

I'm not sure about the pins though - may be worth a shot.


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

I've uploaded a video which clearly shows the creaking noise when stationary, and how it's connected to brake petal pressure:

https://vimeo.com/174948590

Perhaps this will help?


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## Roadrunnerrs2 (Jul 14, 2013)

Need to take pads out of calipers and smear lightly some copper slip on the back of the pads where the Pistons touches


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Very odd, does the noise cone from all four corners front or rear?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Front clicking will almost certainly be the common clicking problem. Sometimes just loosening and retorquing the wheel nuts will cure it. Sometimes greasing the wheel to disc mating surfaces will cure it. Sometimes the disc to hub mating surfaces need to be greased too. As a simple test, the noise may change in tone or disappear temporarilly if you simply tighten the wheel nuts.

Rear clicking sounds like caliper creak to me, I had it once on a 300zx, sounded exactly the same as yours. It's usually caused by the caliper pistons, I actually removed the pads and gently pumped the pistons out further, and they were notchy and making the clicking noise.

I eased them in and out several times and lubricated them (can't remember what with) and it cured the problem for a while.

How long ago did Litchfield refurb the calipers and fit new pads?

Presumably it has been alright for a while after the refurb, but has now just returned?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Ps, Can't believe they would suggest that it's connected to transmission!!


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Check the rear camber arm bolts, I had the same problem and found them loose


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

The noise in the video is caused by caliper pistons, 99.9% confidence rating


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Yes sounds like caliper Pistons to me.
Cosworth and other aftermarket pads use thinner back plates than OEM which may cause uneven loading on the caliper Pistons. Wondering what was refurbished on the calipers?


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

Thanks for everyone's input so far; there does seem that there's a general consensus that it's being caused by caliper pistons.

What is a possible fix for this then - add copper grease to the back of the pads where the pistons touch? 

I've literally had all four calipers replaced as an attempt to get rid of this noise (the creaking also came from the front arches at one point) so two completely different sets of calipers have caused the same issue. The new calipers did seem to fix it initially but then about 100 miles in to my journey home from Litchfield I noticed that it hadn't as the clicking was back when decelerating down a slip road 
I have to believe that they wouldn't have recommended that I replace the calipers if they thought that the grease method would have worked?!

Given where I am now though it doesn't seem like I've got much to lose. If peeps can confirm the grease fix is likely to help I'll get right to disassembling my brakes. Given my crappy luck so far with this issue I will likely find that grease has already been applied to this area by Litchfield and it's making the noise regardless (a different cause) but if not I'll apply some. If it fixes it I will not be at all happy with them!

Noted that rear camber arm bolts and brake pins have also been mentioned as possible causes. At least if grease doesn't fix it I have other things to look at.

So yeah - can anyone else confirm applying grease is likely to help?


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## rob2005 (Apr 26, 2015)

Remove the rear pads and copper grease or ceramic grease them liberally firstly to see if it's the pads but as above sounds like it's dry piston seals on the calipers. 

Who refurbished the calipers for you?


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

The calipers where supplied refurbished by Litchfield. I'm not sure who refurbishes calipers for them.
But as I said, I had the same issue with my previous set of calipers so I find it unlikely that there's anything wrong with them, or that there was anything wrong with my previous set for that matter.


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

When the pads clamp down on the disc, something is moving. Probable the hub carrier. Any play in the bushes, the car will sit down on the slack, at an angle. When you clamp the disc, it will try to pull straight. So the drive shaft and everything will move. Typical Litchfield attitude. 

Can you film the back of the hub knuckle whilst applying and releasing the brake?

Handbrake alright?


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

I think the handbrake is okay, I'll try to get a video later but I need to warm the car up first.

Where exactly is the "hub knuckle"?


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

I've uploaded a video of the same creaking from the reverse perspective, if that helps anyone at all.

https://vimeo.com/175103650


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

That is so odd. Doesn't look like anything moved. Can you feel any vibration if you hold various suspension arm bits with your hand?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Molten, get your head near the caliper while someone presses the brake pedal, hold a screwdriver on the caliper, you will feel the clciking of each creak I suspect, indicating sticky pistons. If this is the case, take the car back and let them sort it.

Sounds like the front clicking is a different issue (as I mentioned earlier - very common) as you said it is speed related.


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

Thanks for everyone's input so far. I'll warm it up again tomorrow and see if I can feel exactly where the vibrations are originating.



> Sounds like the front clicking is a different issue


I don't think I've currently got any clicking from the front, I think the speed-related clicking noise is originating from the back and my hunch is it's being caused by the same thing that's causing the stationary creaking.


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## anthonymcgrath (Feb 22, 2005)

Is there some sort of spring under there? Sounds like a spring for tensioning or something but it's not fit right or fit backwards or something? I don't know much about the new gtr really but wondered if it's something as weird and simple as that perhaps? 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## rob2005 (Apr 26, 2015)

Mate get it up to AC Speedtech, Alan will find this for sure.


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

I had a feel around today with a screwdriver, and the caliper seemed to be vibrating the most strongly with each creak. So I would guess that that is where the sounds are originating.

So then - copper grease on the back of the pads?


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

MoltenMoose said:


> I had a feel around today with a screwdriver, and the caliper seemed to be vibrating the most strongly with each creak. So I would guess that that is where the sounds are originating.
> 
> So then - copper grease on the back of the pads?


Copper grease will not cure sticky pistons, I would get the calipers checked by a specialist


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

> Copper grease will not cure sticky pistons, I would get the calipers checked by a specialist


But I had exactly this issue with the previous set of calipers - isn't it quite unlikely that both sets are equally affected?


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

The copper grease applied to the hub face stops the clicking and can stop squealing in pads but it wont help a sticky piston, calipers have a finite life where they operate at 100% efficiency, a rebuild can be surprisingly cheap.


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

I understand, but these calipers only have a thousand miles on them if that. The previous set, only had 30k miles on them - obviously not a great amount either for calipers.
The noise also comes from both rear arches - which means that both sides must have sticking pistons.

For these reasons I just don't think it's likely that I have sticking pistons. More likely that I'm missing grease where I should have some or it's something completely unrelated, perhaps the rear camber arm bolts, caliper pins or thin back plates on the pads that others have suggested. I've got it booked into a local garage tomorrow. Will use their facilities to get it up in the air, perhaps dismantle the brakes to further isolate what it could be.

I'll let you guys know what they find out tomorrow.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Very unlikely to be calipers, dismantle and re-assemble carefully. Ill bet its something simple.


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## anthonymcgrath (Feb 22, 2005)

Did some go ogling and a bit of chatter with savvy car friends. As mentioned earlier on it could be the pads are grinding against the pins.. and it would take a VERY small bend in them to amplify that creak so when you pop em off check those pins are straight. 

The other thing is earlier somebody mentioned the backing plate of the cos worth pads is slightly thinner. I mentioned this to said pal and he said it could be the piston/s pushing out past where it normally would and creating that creak. Did you have the same pads on previously? It would be interesting to see if a swap for an oem nissan pad got rid of that sound perhaps?

Just a couple of suggestions...

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

I would bet if you changed the calipers for new the creaking would be gone. I'm not suggesting you do that though after you've paid to have them refurbished. 

Good luck tomorrow, if it is tracked down to sticky pistons it is an absolute swine to try and cure long term, it doesn't actually cause any problems though other than the horrendous noise, and can probably be cured temporarilly by lubricating the pistons.

IMO it's way too loud and consistent a click to be poorly fitting pads, pad anti-squeal shims or pins.

I had exactly the same nosie on my 300zx and it was pistons.


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

I'm it does turn out to be something wrong with the calipers, however unlucky I would need to be for that to be the case on both sides, then I'm sure Litchfield will offer to replace them free of charge under warranty given they're only 3 months old.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

It wouldn't be unusual, the calipers have probably reached huge temps as a pair, so get affected as a pair.


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## MoltenMoose (Jul 16, 2016)

So yesterday I took it to a local garage. They took apart the rear brakes and ensured all the moving parts where nicely coated with copper grease. This included the pad backs and the pins.

They also had a look at the condition of the calipers and it was their professional opinion that neither showed signs of having sticky pistons.

They also confirmed that the creaking sounds were definitely coming from the caliper area itself, and not being caused by other components (suspension, driveshaft etc).

Annoyingly they showed me that the sound is actually coming from all *four* corners! Yes, that's right - *all* my calipers are prone to making this creaking noise!!! WTF? 

For my sanity, could perhaps some of you try the following?
After a journey in your GT-Rs (so it has warmed up), park up, open the windows and switch off the engine. Then slowly, but firmly increase brake pedal pressure while listening for noises coming from outside. Please do let me know if anyone else can hear these creaking noises. Just would like to rule out for sure that this isn't one of those noises that people don't normally notice (as they rarely pump the brake when stationary), but nonetheless every GT-R is prone to making.

Please help!


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## rob2005 (Apr 26, 2015)

Mate just speak to Litchfield, Im sure they will sort this for you. Yes they may be working fine but they are not designed to make that noise so get on the blower and see what they say.


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## Iggy GT-R (Dec 15, 2012)

Just been for a 150 mile run in mine.
Turned engine off, pumped brake pedal...silent!


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## RichF-R35 (Jun 16, 2012)

If it was me I would remove the wheel,caliper and brake disc, refit caliper with a spacer the same thickness as your disc and try again.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

MoltenMoose said:


> They also had a look at the condition of the calipers and it was their professional opinion that neither showed signs of having sticky pistons.


Perhaps sticky pistons was the wrong term to use earlier, they don't have to show signs of sticking or being siezed to make the clicking noise, hence why perfomance is not affected. 

My guess is you've been given some refurbished calipers that have got extremely hot in their previous life, hence why they were refurbished, and for some unknown reason this can cause piston click even after a refurb.

If Litchfield refurb calipers there's a good chance the owner has swapped them for bigger brakes for possible hard track use because the originals were not up to the job, so they've possibly had quite a hard life.

The GT-R makes lots of annoying strange noises, but this isn't one of them, I've done over 70k miles in these cars so know most of the noises by now. I really think you need to ask Litchfield to change the calipers unfortuantely.


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