# PPG sequential gear kit for R32/33



## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Seems like they have just released a new sequential kit with centre plate for the oem 5 speed box. Will be interesting to see how people get on with it. It's aparantly 14k so unfortunately that's not something I will be trying in a hurry...


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## Calibrat (Jan 22, 2013)

Sounds like a bargin....


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Seems like they have just released a new sequential kit with centre plate for the oem 5 speed box. Will be interesting to see how people get on with it. It's aparantly 14k so unfortunately that's not something I will be trying in a hurry...



Ppg havnt got the best of reputations for gear strength, also Quaife allways said anything what fits in standard gear case is only good for 750bhp because the size of the gears and weak cases.


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## alexcrosse (May 7, 2014)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> Ppg havnt got the best of reputations for gear strength, also Quaife allways said anything what fits in standard gear case is only good for 750bhp because the size of the gears and weak cases.


But aren't you running 800bhp & a std case?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

I think they've priced themselves out of the market TBH.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Your right £14k is a lot. A kit like that shouldn't really cost more than 5-6k more so as it uses existing casing.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

How can a gear kit cost more than £10k more than the 1-5 gear kit?
Sounds like they're trying to recoup all R&D costs with a small number of sales rather than seeing the bigger picture / gap in the market.


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## Spawn (Mar 18, 2015)

So , OSGiken sequential box is cheaper then this.


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

matt j said:


> How can a gear kit cost more than £10k more than the 1-5 gear kit?
> Sounds like they're trying to recoup all R&D costs with a small number of sales rather than seeing the bigger picture / gap in the market.


spot on. I'm disappointed. Bit like the apprentice. spot the market, do the market research. Price for your market.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Spawn said:


> So , OSGiken sequential box is cheaper then this.


I think the OSG gear set is around £3,500.
The PPG new solution (admittedly, quicker shift) is £14,000.

The PPG gears don't have a great reputation in R35 applications.
Which for me personally is a little worrying.


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## GTRSTILL (Jul 27, 2006)

14k.... is Australian dollars I believe.

so 6500 + VAT + fitting.

Seems priced correctly to me.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

+VAT +Duty etc


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## Theskycankill (Apr 27, 2015)

CT17 said:


> I think the OSG gear set is around £3,500.
> The PPG new solution (admittedly, quicker shift) is £14,000.


Think you are confused the OS88 OS Giken is a sequential, retail around £9k

The gear kits are just that,stronger gears in stock casing.

Its been proven many times you can't build a strong sequential in stock casing and if you do the price needs to be £5k max, considering it will probably break constantly.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Theskycankill said:


> Think you are confused the OS88 OS Giken is a sequential, retail around £9k
> 
> The gear kits are just that,stronger gears in stock casing.
> 
> Its been proven many times you can't build a strong sequential in stock casing and if you do the price needs to be £5k max, considering it will probably break constantly.


You are right, I was confusing the two.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

alexcrosse said:


> But aren't you running 800bhp & a std case?



I done 400-500 miles on stock box but I didn't care if it broke to spend this sort of money on a seqential what fits in standard casing you would be mad. 

The ppg get rag what went in the Borg lasted 4 runs on 1/4 mile with a low 10 high 9 second car and the getrag gears are bigger than these, so why would these take it with smaller gears?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I personally only think a seqential in a custom case is worth buying like holinger,Quaife, albins and even they have failures


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> I personally only think a seqential in a custom case is worth buying like holinger,Quaife, albins and even they have failures


At near double the money you'd expect it to be much better/stronger.

If this turns out to be reliable, or at least easy/cheap to maintain at non-mega power output (thinking +600hp) it's good way to get sequential performance where a Holinger etc is overkill.

I will definitely emphasis *if this turns out to be reliable* though.
Wait and see the real world testing I guess ...


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

infamous_t said:


> At near double the money you'd expect it to be much better/stronger.
> 
> If this turns out to be reliable, or at least easy/cheap to maintain at non-mega power output (thinking +600hp) it's good way to get sequential performance where a Holinger etc is overkill.
> 
> ...



Defiantly agree with you there but will it hold 1000bhp I doubt it. It will also end up at the price of the new Quaife 69g seqential what's meant to be brilliant and has custom case big gears


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## mhhforyou (Jul 12, 2012)

Came the 14k from ppg or is this a guess?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Even the Holinger is struggling with 1000bhp, the torque is killing it.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I agree, if this turns out to be the same price or dearer than the OS88 it is going to price itself out of the market, there is a huge market for a sub 700hp, sub $10,000aud seq box for the Skyline GT-Rs, if it's more like $15,000aud/$20,000aud then it's just another choice between OS Giken OS88, Quaife 69g and possibly Holinger and Albins.
Surely if they have gone to the trouble of building it as a gear set to fit in the standard housing, then the manufacturing costs will be a lot less than all the others.

I bet they will sell hundreds of these if they are priced better.....if they aren't they will sell tens.....


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

People often forget that ideally some kind of control strategy is needed to get the most out of sequential boxes, manually if the driver gets it wrong you can easily kill a box. Also people tend to overlook that these boxes are not something you can use and abuse for season after season, parts wear and tear and more so in cars like ours putting way above 600bhp/ and similar torque. All takes life out of boxes.

In racing boxes are usually stripped and inspected every race and items that are worn or are life limited are replaced every couple of races. You cant have your cake and eat it in this game.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

FRRACER said:


> People often forget that ideally some kind of control strategy is needed to get the most out of sequential boxes, manually if the driver gets it wrong you can easily kill a box.



True all the added computer gubbins will get the most out of the gearbox, but cars have been driven/raced for years with dog boxes without all the clever flat shift electronics, and with a bit practice they are very easy to deal with, not everyone needs flappy paddles and flat shift etc (some of the basics however are available on most modern ECUs now though)

Search for the video of Simon Pfitzner driving an R32 GT-R with one of their dog box gear sets in it on the road in normal traffic situations, the fact that the new setup posted here is sequential doesn't make it any different




FRRACER said:


> Also people tend to overlook that these boxes are not something you can use and abuse for season after season, parts wear and tear and more so in cars like ours putting way above 600bhp/ and similar torque. All takes life out of boxes.
> 
> In racing boxes are usually stripped and inspected every race and items that are worn or are life limited are replaced every couple of races. You cant have your cake and eat it in this game.


Not a lot different if you decide to race a synchro gearbox, you will quickly break or damage parts in it as well, but 90% of the people looking to buy a seq gearbox for their GTR are going to be using it in a fast road car that sees the trace every now and then for a quiet fun day.....


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## PPG (Sep 2, 2011)

A few comments 

Well calibrated ECU's make gearboxes last longer and protect the dog wear ,actually virtually eliminate it in the cars we see in all forms of motorsports around the world. With good integration the sequential gearbox becomes a seamless process and stops the chassis from unsettling and unloading during the shift phases . With good closed loop shift strategy that operates from 1000rpm the ecu pulls the ignition so even at low speed the car still operates the cut and removes engine power while the shift is made ,the load cell then in turn keep the cut made so long as the force is maintained on the lever. Only when the force is released will the power be allowed to return ...... 


Running full closed loop with our KA load cell and Gill Blade sensor enables data capture so powerful we can characterise the dog position and return power sooner and prevent dog wear, this also makes for a seamless shift phase and the low friction systems we use see us only requiring 65% ignition cut to perform a gear shift allowing boost to remain completely flat on shift. Typical shift force 30% lower than other motorsport sequential systems 

Something to think about ..... 

The new PPG R32 gear is 29mm wide , the R35 GT-R is 28mm 

MTI Racing run the PPG T56 6 speed sequential systems in the Corvette & Viper cars, this video help explain a little more about shifting with a sequential gearbox - 6 speed OEM case 

https://youtu.be/XviGi4u0eTA

Dan Lofthouse - British Off Road Champion - Pectel SQ6 Closed loop - 6 speed OEM case.

https://www.facebook.com/PFITZNERPE...9155729151149/858935910839790/?type=2&theater

This shows a full closed loop gear cut strategy using throttle blipping down shift with full flat upshifts on the latest PPG gear system for the EVO X 6 speed OEM case . 

https://youtu.be/_s53Le_EYU0

Rocket Rally -Subaru Sequential - 6 speed OEM Case 

https://youtu.be/kJt6piZ2v6c

Hope this helps.


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

PPG said:


> A few comments
> 
> Well calibrated ECU's make gearboxes last longer and protect the dog wear ,actually virtually eliminate it in the cars we see in all forms of motorsports around the world. With good integration the sequential gearbox becomes a seamless process and stops the chassis from unsettling and unloading during the shift phases . With good closed loop shift strategy that operates from 1000rpm the ecu pulls the ignition so even at low speed the car still operates the cut and removes engine power while the shift is made ,the load cell then in turn keep the cut made so long as the force is maintained on the lever. Only when the force is released will the power be allowed to return ......
> 
> ...




Just to clear things up I know it's not an exact science what was the spec torque/Bhp figures the gear set was manufactured/designed to handle when you had the idea to build It ? 

Nigel:thumbsup:


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/396978-p...tem-r32-r33-gt-rs-gts-t-gt-t.html#post4200378


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Jeff seems to get on well with holinger don't he, Matt prob got bit more weight what puts more strain on box. Maybe even more power?


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

14k huh?
well it was a short dream.


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

Tinoush said:


> 14k huh?
> well it was a short dream.


It's not 14k it's far less..! No prices have been confirmed yet.. So keep that dream alive!


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

If it's 14K it'll be AUD14K as PPG is an Australian company.
Check the conversion rate, it'll make you happier!
That said they've made no announcement on final pricing yet.


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## Tinoush (Oct 26, 2009)

infamous_t said:


> If it's 14K it'll be AUD14K as PPG is an Australian company.
> Check the conversion rate, it'll make you happier!
> That said they've made no announcement on final pricing yet.


I hope it's inder 6k euro's 
Otherwise it's out of my reach.
Fitting, shiping, taxes cost money too.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

matt j said:


> It's £8.5k plus installation. To anyone in the UK according to the customs website.


Cheers. :thumbsup:


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

CT17 said:


> Cheers. :thumbsup:


No worries mate, this is straight from the duty calculator but I'm sure some would risk not declaring...


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

crap pruned and moved to chatter, play your games in there please.

Keep this thread on topic.


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