# Built Gearbox options?..



## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

So once you've built the engine (forged etc), turbos and supporting bits to run 900hp etc.

What options are there to get the gearbox capable for additional torque like 800lbs - 1000lbs? 

I know there's kits like dodson, ppg, albins etc anyone have any feedback on nvh, straight cut gears, driveablity, stop/start, launching etc..

cheers
ps: I did run a few searches and couldn't find anything applicable.


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## motors (Mar 14, 2013)

Tin said:


> So once you've built the engine (forged etc), turbos and supporting bits to run 900hp etc.
> 
> What options are there to get the gearbox capable for additional torque like 800lbs - 1000lbs?
> 
> ...


Got ppg gears fourth is quite noisy, 5 this bit quieter no difference to oem on the rest. Andy at r35 audio fitted sound proofing and made huge difference really happy with gearbox build


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Bare minimum is first shaft and gear, billet baskets and uprated frictions.


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## DeeboSTI (Dec 1, 2016)

Have had Full Albins Gearbox since running 850bhp (4 Years) & running quite a bit more now & never had any issues.

Yes the gears do wine a little bit but so do the R888***8217;s, so it***8217;s nothing to worry about.

Done numerous launches & run 9sec 1/4 miles which has caused no issues.


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## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

motors said:


> Got ppg gears fourth is quite noisy, 5 this bit quieter no difference to oem on the rest. Andy at r35 audio fitted sound proofing and made huge difference really happy with gearbox built


thanks, are the dodson the quieter ones? Is it possible to mix and match gears, ie dodson 1st/2nd and ppg 3rd/4th etc? Hmm thinking why some are noiser than others?



charles charlie said:


> Bare minimum is first shaft and gear, billet baskets and uprated frictions.


Got those already sorted 



DeeboSTI said:


> Have had Full Albins Gearbox since running 850bhp (4 Years) & running quite a bit more now & never had any issues.
> 
> Yes the gears do wine a little bit but so do the R888’s, so it’s nothing to worry about.
> 
> Done numerous launches & run 9sec 1/4 miles which has caused no issues.


Thanks, who did you use to build the gearbox? how many miles has it done in 4yrs? and what sort of torque are you running?


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

How deep are your pockets springs to mind.

On a serious note I think you can do £30k if you upgrade all the bits.

Albin***8217;s gearsets seam to get a good review for quietness, not sure who the importer is though.


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

If ever I need to do a 'box (hopefully not & won't be running the level of torque you're referring to, Tin), I will consider OEM gears that are super-finished & cryo-treated.

Not sure what these would be good for but got to be better than stock yet will retain OEM feel & drivability ...


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## AKS (Feb 4, 2015)

Every tuner will have their own brands that they swear by. I think the biggest factor is the person putting it back together. Pick a proper rebuilder with knowledge and experience.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I had this very discussion last night when chatting about my engine, and yeah......... the gearbox if you want it to be bomb proof is going to cost you £20-30K, absolutely mental lol 

Changing gear sets is fine for the strength and then you have the clutch packs and baskets which are next to go as they will slip to high heaven at those levels.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

Tin, I think What you have is good for somewhere between 700/800lbft depending on who you listen to. This doesn't factor in fork failures and ware and tare of course.

I am in a similar position and the next step I think has to be to upgrade the secondary shaft and the stock gears. I don't believe this is as significant as 20k from where you are, however it is probably still £5 - £10k (outrageous really).

The query I have is even if my box was fully built would I need, and make use of more than 700/750lbft? Surely that's just a wallet buster on the entire vehicle and can you really use it? 

I am focussing on as flat a torque curve as possible. An increased rev limit to 8/8.5k such that the car is incredibly drivable and just feels like it gets faster and faster as the revs build.

I don't understand why people go for 900lbft+ of torque in the mid range. Just because you can have something, doesn't mean you should.

So it brings me round to the point that if a bit of strengthening of the box with the first gear means the box should take all the abuse 750ish lbft can throw at it, then why bother spending more than you need?


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## DeeboSTI (Dec 1, 2016)

Tin said:


> Thanks, who did you use to build the gearbox? how many miles has it done in 4yrs? and what sort of torque are you running?


Built by SVM & it***8217;s running just under 1200FT/LBS at moment.

Stripped the Standard 3rd gear twice at around 800FT/LBS so decided to bite the bullet & build the box properly once & for all.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

When I worked out the full cost of box with clutches and all gears etc you need £30k.


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

The are so many options when it comes to building a box. It ultimately depends on how much torque you want to run and what type of uses. 

Tell me what you want from it and I will give you an idea on price.

Assuming your box is in good shape, you make good power and already have a clutch man enough and billet baskets you can build a box that is good for 950ftlb for sub 10k


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

Skint said:


> When I worked out the full cost of box with clutches and all gears etc you need £30k.


You will scare people with that number. 
Unless you make 2000whp+ and 1500ftlb of torque you don't need to spend 30k


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## adz87kc (Jan 8, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Assuming your box is in good shape, you make good power and already have a clutch man enough and billet baskets you can build a box that is good for 950ftlb for sub 10k


That doesn't seem so bad. 10k built or parts only?


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

So what exactly does the 10k get you?


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Skint said:


> So what exactly does the 10k get you?


Enough!


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

adz87kc said:


> That doesn't seem so bad. 10k built or parts only?


Drive in drive out 

In fact depending on gear set it can be done for 8k


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

dudersvr said:


> Enough!


:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

You get 1-6 including input shaft


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

So what***8217;s the current thinking on the most reliable make of gearsets these days?


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

charles charlie said:


> So what’s the current thinking on the most reliable make of gearsets these days?


At what power level?

Not seen any of them break sub 900ftlb apart from PPG Gen 1, they are now Gen 3


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Maybe I should have worded that better.

I***8217;m running 750-800lbsft (guesstimate at present) with a Dodson 1st gear and shaft, 2015 remaining gears/synchros/forks etc, Xtreme clutch.

As and when my 3rd/5th gear takes a dump, what would be an ideal replacement that doesn***8217;t whine like crazy or select clunkily?

I***8217;d want stock like manners but strength to handle the torque on track with occasional drag run.


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

charles charlie said:


> Maybe I should have worded that better.
> 
> I’m running 750-800lbsft (guesstimate at present) with a Dodson 1st gear and shaft, 2015 remaining gears/synchros/forks etc, Xtreme clutch.
> 
> ...


In short Albins

Longer explanation tomorrow.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Coolio thanks TB


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Tin said:


> thanks, are the dodson the quieter ones? Is it possible to mix and match gears, ie dodson 1st/2nd and ppg 3rd/4th etc? Hmm thinking why some are noiser than others?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tin,

Trouble is that most of us end up with what the tuner that built our cars recommends, so hard to be certain whether you have made a good choice.

I believe the reason that PPG have a noisier 4th gear is that it is straight cut to make it stronger.

4th gear is I believe a little narrower and therefore lacks strength when compared to some of the other gears.

I have ppg version 3 and has been mint since being installed.

You get used to the noise in 4th gear and don't notice after a while.

Cheers

Hugh


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

TBH id say look at jacks S800 or Shep 2.5 and decide from there if what they throw in meets what you plan to build and tweak accordingly.

Personally im looking at an S800 with an additional sump+cooler upgrade and the rear brace and think that will be more than enough for my future needs short of some catastrophic failure or stripping the OE 2-6. 

Looking at peaking the torque at mid 700ftlbs and 900hp when it all comes together.


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

Tin said:


> thanks, are the dodson the quieter ones? Is it possible to mix and match gears, ie dodson 1st/2nd and ppg 3rd/4th etc? Hmm thinking why some are noiser than others?


As far as the 3 main brands of gearset go: Dodson, Albins and PPG you can mix and match as follows

Any 1st gear and input shaft
2nd 4th and 6th have to be the same brand because they are on the same sleeve shaft
Any 3rd gear
Any 5th gear


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

charles charlie said:


> Maybe I should have worded that better.
> 
> I’m running 750-800lbsft (guesstimate at present) with a Dodson 1st gear and shaft, 2015 remaining gears/synchros/forks etc, Xtreme clutch.
> 
> ...


Out of the 3 main brands of gearset all of them will do 950ftlb with a 1-6 kit. The limiting factor above that is the OE drop gears and OE output shaft. 

Bare in mind that in most applications depending on power delivery 950ftlb peak torque would be cira 1100-1200bhp this has most people coverd.

In order of how audible these gear sets are in my experience they go Albins then PPG then Dodson Extreme duty being the loudest. This is because the OE gearset has a high helix Angel wich is quiet in operation and the above gearsets reduce this Angel in the order above until you get to the Dodson set wich is straight cut. In the PPG set 4th gear is near to being straight cut making it the loudest in that gearset. 

Strangely enough the same order applies to strenth with the loudest being the strongest. 

Same order also applies to cost with the Dodson being the most expensive.

The are pros and cons to all the kits but I'm happy to build any of them. I have recommendations based on power, use, budget and how much noise you can put up with.

CC I believe the Albins is what will fit the bill for you


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Thanks TB, super info as usual.


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## Krypt0nite (Sep 11, 2017)

Interesting read, im on full fbo now with the torque tuned down, what are the bare minimum components that would make the gb reliable for fun back roads and occasional track days? I am looking at the hks dct cooler at the moment, but my mind isnt at ease when my foot is down


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Somebody should do a box swap service. I don’t mind whining, as long as it’s not sat next to me. Strait cut is obviously stronger and obviously less refined, given the only reason to slice the cut is to soften the engagement. Huh?
Anyone fancy defining a bomb proof trans? Forget “the criteria”! The only one that matters is fit and forget. Huh? But Cider is pretty strong stuff, and I’ve not got any left. :banned:


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

Krypt0nite said:


> Interesting read, im on full fbo now with the torque tuned down, what are the bare minimum components that would make the gb reliable for fun back roads and occasional track days? I am looking at the hks dct cooler at the moment, but my mind isnt at ease when my foot is down


FBO?? I have only just got my head around the stage tuning and I'm still not sure what stage 4.723 is even before I have to get my head around the Americanism FBO. I mean you can bolt Turbos on and make 800bhp. But anyway assuming you are sub 650ftld just fit billet baskets, 4wd Circlip upgrade and trans cooler and crack on.


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> Somebody should do a box swap service. I don’t mind whining, as long as it’s not sat next to me. Strait cut is obviously stronger and obviously less refined, given the only reason to slice the cut is to soften the engagement. Huh?
> Anyone fancy defining a bomb proof trans? Forget “the criteria”! The only one that matters is fit and forget. Huh? But Cider is pretty strong stuff, and I’ve not got any left. :banned:


Strongest box i ever built had cider cut gears by Hick&Hick Developments 

Have a good night Mate


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## DocT (Dec 17, 2014)

I went for the Dodson helical gear set with overdrive 6th which comes with a straight cut 3rd and 4th. 

Love the noise in 3rd and 4th!


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

Krypt0nite said:


> Interesting read, im on full fbo now with the torque tuned down, what are the bare minimum components that would make the gb reliable for fun back roads and occasional track days? I am looking at the hks dct cooler at the moment, but my mind isnt at ease when my foot is down


He's on Full FBO, so that's Full Full Bolt On, equates to 4 turbos with a shoe shine attachment.


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> Strait cut is obviously stronger


Technically not true.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> Technically not true.


Now its going back a few years since I did my engineering a levels, but IIRC helical are stronger as there is a larger surface area and multiple teeth can engage at the same time.

However, due to the angle of the cut the gears are trying to move side to side as part of the rotation, which means stresses are moved elsewhere and if something else flexes or breaks, that is what causes the helical teeth to chew themselves to pieces.


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## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

Nice writeup here on straight vs helical


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Al, other than the gears themselves, if you wanted to superfinish & then cryotreat an OEM gearset to strengthen them but retain OEM feel, what else would need to be "finished" in using the above process?

Any idea what kind of torque level this kind of finishing would allow (wondering if it's a viable alternative to a full "built" 'box with gearsets from one of the aforementioned companies??


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Evo9lution said:


> Al, other than the gears themselves, if you wanted to superfinish & then cryotreat an OEM gearset to strengthen them but retain OEM feel, what else would need to be "finished" in using the above process?
> 
> Any idea what kind of torque level this kind of finishing would allow (wondering if it's a viable alternative to a full "built" 'box with gearsets from one of the aforementioned companies??



Jacks seems to suggest that with first gear and input shaft, then treating the stock 2-6 its good for 800lbs


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