# Slight Vibration Under Braking



## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

I've noticed recently that I have some vibration coming through the brake pedal/steering wheel when braking. After checking my discs I've noticed a 'band' which is a different colour to the rest of the disc all the way around the two front discs. I've done some research and it seems I may have some pad transfer (I'm assuming from a track day I did towards end last year).

Has anyone else experienced this and what is the best way to remove it? I spoke to Neil at Litchfields when I was booking my service and he mentioned I can sand the disc down but I'm a little unsure. 

It does seem to have gotten better over the last couple weeks so is it possible it will just remove itself over time? I've attached some pics below to show what I'm talking about. The actual discs/pads seem to be fine with plenty of life in them.


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Wtf at the state of your wheel nuts!

completely unreleated, but get it sorted, for shame


----------



## Simb (Apr 10, 2013)

If you can pop the pads out, mine turned out to be the pads cracking.

Si


----------



## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Ferodo ds2500?


----------



## Simb (Apr 10, 2013)

paul__k said:


> Ferodo ds2500?


Standard pads


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

How many miles on the discs & pads? OEM parts don't like track days that much ...

As long as it won't be dangerous (you'll have to decide based on the above and from what you can see), try bedding in the pads again. You may find that will help.


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

How did the wheel nuts go rusty lol, I've never seen that on a GT-R before.

The discs look fine to me, the blueish/black is heat discolouration, but it's not unusual on these heavy cars. I don't know how many miles those discs have done, but I couldn't see any signs of cracking around the cross drilled holes, which is very very common on stock discs, so they look fine to me. 

As said above, prob worth looking at the pads as they have been known to crack, but light surface cracks are normal, and if okay bed in the pads again (15 stops of 0.6G from 70 to 10mph, then cool for 3 miles at 40-50mph).

And I would first check to see that any wheel balancing weights haven't fallen off.


----------



## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

kindai said:


> Wtf at the state of your wheel nuts!
> 
> completely unreleated, but get it sorted, for shame


:chuckle: I did wonder if someone would mention that. I only noticed it when I took these photos, it's on the to do list!


----------



## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

Trevgtr said:


> How did the wheel nuts go rusty lol, I've never seen that on a GT-R before.
> 
> The discs look fine to me, the blueish/black is heat discolouration, but it's not unusual on these heavy cars. I don't know how many miles those discs have done, but I couldn't see any signs of cracking around the cross drilled holes, which is very very common on stock discs, so they look fine to me.
> 
> ...


I have no idea lol. Think I'll treat her to some new ones though as it does look a bit pikey!

Good point re wheel weights I'll check them. I'll take the pads out and have a look what condition they seem to be in and report back. 

I bought the car on 16500 miles last June and it now sits at just over 22000, I'm pretty sure it's still on the stock discs and pads. I was actually pretty surprised how much life still seems to be left in the discs and pads everything considered.


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Yep, those brakes look like they've had a fairly easy life, prior to when you bought the car anyway


----------



## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

Trevgtr said:


> Yep, those brakes look like they've had a fairly easy life, prior to when you bought the car anyway


Aye, clearly I didn't try hard enough on my last track day after everything I've heard about GTR brakes being shot after one session 

PS Didn't expect replies at this time in the morning, can't sleep?


----------



## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Depending on how much pad you have left, you can sand them flat and still reuse them safely. I'd start with getting them off first and having a look, it also look like there may be a stone or grit which come between the pad and the disc.


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Imho if these are stock pads and discs after 22k and a track day, I'd bite the bullet and treat the car to new discs and pads all round. Yes it's expensive but if you're wanting to occasionally track the car it'll pay dividends.

You might still have some life in these original pads/discs but I'd be putting much better items on anyways.


----------



## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

If you do plan to change them go for the Alcon discs and pagid pads, the discs work out cheaper than the stock and are better. Litchfields were doing a deal on them a while back, I don't know if it's still on but it's worth asking


----------



## Simb (Apr 10, 2013)

If it is cracked disc's one of the main causes is washed no the car and not cleaning the disc's off afterwards.

I.e. Leaving the car to dry straight after washing, which ultimately leads to the pads sticking hard to the disc, requiring a bit of revs to free up(not good for the pads).

Si


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Simb said:


> If it is cracked disc's one of the main causes is washed no the car and not cleaning the disc's off afterwards.
> 
> I.e. Leaving the car to dry straight after washing, which ultimately leads to the pads sticking hard to the disc, requiring a bit of revs to free up(not good for the pads).
> 
> Si


I'm sorry but that's nonsense.

Cracked discs comes about from the intense heat cycling during extreme operation. Highly improbable during normal road use but quite common with track day usage.

R35 OEM discs have suffered from cracks originating from around the drilled holes ever since 2009 hence why practically everyone goes aftermarket for their next set as the stock discs and pads and not up to the same standard as the rest of the car.

Washing the car only causes mild surface rusting of the discs which is normal behaviour and will have nothing to do with the OPs scenario.

These discs show high temp discolouration of the rotor surface but in an uneven manner. This usually means there are pad deposits on the discs which not being evenly distributed is causing the juddering.

It's absolutely nothing to do with washing the car.


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Takamo said:


> If you do plan to change them go for the Alcon discs and pagid pads, the discs work out cheaper than the stock and are better. Litchfields were doing a deal on them a while back, I don't know if it's still on but it's worth asking


Or, try the AP discs (two options, slotted or J-hook). The Pagid RS29s are great pads but some prefer Ferodo DS2500s for a car that is mostly used on the road as they give good braking performance with less dust and squealing.

For what it's worth, I use AP J-hooks with Pagid RS29s ...


----------



## simon tompkins (Aug 14, 2005)

probably warped discs if your getting vibration under braking.



simon


----------



## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

simon tompkins said:


> probably warped discs if your getting vibration under braking.
> 
> 
> 
> simon


Doubtful..... one it's pretty hard to warp the discs and two you'd feel a warped disc under normal driving not just braking


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

simon tompkins said:


> probably warped discs if your getting vibration under braking.


Warped discs often turns out to be pad deposits ...


----------



## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Evo9lution said:


> Warped discs often turns out to be pad deposits ...


Exactly! We used to get loads of cars in with 'warped discs' and all it is , is pad deposit, this is how we got rid of it (Dont take a passenger)

10 stops from 70 to 0 as hard as you can
Drive car for 5-10 mins to cool brakes so no using brakes
3-5 more stops 70-0
again try to drive car for 5 mins without using brakes

Not easy and needs a clear road or deserted road 

Heres the report Stoptech did about 'Warped discs'

-Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths


----------



## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

charles charlie said:


> I'm sorry but that's nonsense.
> 
> Cracked discs comes about from the intense heat cycling during extreme operation. Highly improbable during normal road use but quite common with track day usage.
> 
> ...


Yes, after doing some research that's the conclusion I came to re pad transfer. I know what you mean about getting them changed anyway, I'll look to do this in the next couple months I think. Litchfields will also be servicing/inspecting the car next week so will be interesting to see what they say about them. 

I've read loads re the Alcon vs AP J Hook options, as well as the RS29 vs DS2500. Both seem to be very good options. I did read somewhere that the J hooks and RS29s seem to wear faster but whether that's true or not..

I'll phone around to see what deals are on at the moment, I've heard Circuit Supplies are pretty good when it comes to brakes.


----------



## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

dudersvr said:


> Exactly! We used to get loads of cars in with 'warped discs' and all it is , is pad deposit, this is how we got rid of it (Dont take a passenger)
> 
> 10 stops from 70 to 0 as hard as you can
> Drive car for 5-10 mins to cool brakes so no using brakes
> ...


Thanks, I'll give this a go. Useful link too. :thumbsup:


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

dudersvr said:


> Exactly! We used to get loads of cars in with 'warped discs' and all it is , is pad deposit, this is how we got rid of it (Dont take a passenger)
> 
> 10 stops from 70 to 0 as hard as you can
> Drive car for 5-10 mins to cool brakes so no using brakes
> ...


Interesting info, thanks.


----------



## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

-SeanS said:


> Yes, after doing some research that's the conclusion I came to re pad transfer. I know what you mean about getting them changed anyway, I'll look to do this in the next couple months I think. Litchfields will also be servicing/inspecting the car next week so will be interesting to see what they say about them.
> 
> I've read loads re the Alcon vs AP J Hook options, as well as the RS29 vs DS2500. Both seem to be very good options. I did read somewhere that the J hooks and RS29s seem to wear faster but whether that's true or not..
> 
> I'll phone around to see what deals are on at the moment, I've heard Circuit Supplies are pretty good when it comes to brakes.


Theres a guy on here sells brakes, Tim @ circuit supplies is very helpful but more expensive, Ben Linney lists the J hooks cheaper than I can get them from circuit supplies trade. Im also working on a cheap brake cooling kit which should extend life a bit.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

-SeanS said:


> I've read loads re the Alcon vs AP J Hook options, as well as the RS29 vs DS2500. Both seem to be very good options. I did read somewhere that the J hooks and RS29s seem to wear faster but whether that's true or not..


How much difference does J hook make over having normal discs like alcons? Better braking? more dust tho? 

I have Ferodo DS2500 and alcons, ferodo are a good all round, road and track pad that don't squeal = win! I heard RS29 squeal a bit.. I can't handle squealing brakes! I must have squealing brake OCD! haha


----------



## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Chronos said:


> How much difference does J hook make over hacing normal discs like alcons? Better braking? more dust tho?
> 
> I have Ferodo DS2500 and alcons, ferodo are a good all round, road and track pad that don't squeal = win! I heard RS29 squeal a bit.. I can't handle squealing brakes! I must have squealing brake OCD! haha


I have DS1.1 front and 2500 rear the fronts do squeal a little.


----------



## Simb (Apr 10, 2013)

charles charlie said:


> I'm sorry but that's nonsense.
> 
> Cracked discs comes about from the intense heat cycling during extreme operation. Highly improbable during normal road use but quite common with track day usage.
> 
> ...


Apologies I meant to say Pads not disc's(silly boy)

Si


----------



## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

Think I may have found the issue, had all the front pads out today and found the below:

Front Left Outer Pad Cracked/Crumbling:

Front Left Inner Pad Cracking:

Much of the same on the Front Right:



I put up a thread after my first track day in October saying how well I thought the brakes had fared, it's strange I've only noticed it over the last 4 weeks but seems the track day did kill them off. I've been on the phone to a few people and Litchfield are recommending the 400mm Alcons with Pagid RS29s if I intend to do a few track days. 

I'm happy to get these provided they are going to be up to the task however my question is has anyone got any experience with the 400mm Alcons that can chime in on if they are worth twice as much as the 390mm? It's a lot for an extra 10mm and after doing a lot of research I'm questioning their worth, seems to be many mixed reviews on these.


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

-SeanS said:


> Aye, clearly I didn't try hard enough on my last track day after everything I've heard about GTR brakes being shot after one session
> 
> PS Didn't expect replies at this time in the morning, can't sleep?


Missed that, no I work online so am up till sort of 4ish every night.

How much are the 400's now? Personally I think all discs are way over priced, I couldn't buy 400's, but that said the standard size is good enough for my driving style.


----------



## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

Trevgtr said:


> Missed that, no I work online so am up till sort of 4ish every night.
> 
> How much are the 400's now? Personally I think all discs are way over priced, I couldn't buy 400's, but that said the standard size is good enough for my driving style.


Litchfield have quoted £1336.80 for the 400mm + £560 for the RS29s, so you're looking at about £2k just for the front brakes. This is in contrast to £762 for the 390mm Alcons and I think Ferodo DS2500s are around £270 but haven't had a price from Litchfield on them. I've got my 60M Service next week too so it's gonna be an expensive week!

I agree rotors for the GTR do seem extortionate compared to some other performance cars. I've read a lot of things about the 400mm discs cracking due to being too lightweight for the GTRs heavy mass, although I believe Alcon revised the thickness/mass of the rotor following some issues.


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Haha, yeah best part of 2k for a pair of discs and pads is crazy, you can buy a decent second hand car for that, which sort of helps put it into context.

I put 390 Alcons on my last R35, think they were 600 quid, Nissan wanted just over 3k for stock front discs and pads, ha. The after market suppliers know that, hence the price fixing.


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Any decent local garage can fit you new pads and rotors, they're not special ones off the space shuttle.

Ds2500 will work just fine on the road and the occasional track day and AP rotors are well respected and cheaper than Alcons equivalents.


----------

