# oh my god x2



## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Ok im a fairly laid back guy but this is doing my head in now    
I need some advice and i apologise for the length of this thread  
I have had several people email me saying they have seen my car when it was in japan and it had a 600bhp plus engine, fully bling,with an air intake replacing the front passenger side headlight, etc.
My tuner is of the opinion that the original engine was removed and replaced with a basicaly std engine to be sold to the uk.
It has magnesium wheels, Tien suspension a 5" bore straight exhaust with an old cat put back in the middle! Apexi intake kit, Blitz ssq bov,s. My oil pressure guage is knackered and has never read more than 2.5 and does not fluctuate with revs. Is there a way of testing the oil pressure more accurately/replacing the sender with a new/uprated one? I am going to invest in a high flow oil pump but finances are getting a bit tight now so i dont want to spend money on unnecessary things.The car never reaches above 90deg even when thrashed but there is no oil cooler!!!
When it is running std turbos the std guage shows off the top (.7) at 4600 revs. Having just blown the second set of tubbies in as many months i am very worried that my new steel jobbies from turbo technics are going to suffer the same fate.

Can the ecu cause this sort of problem and is it just going to be a case of getting Abbey/RK to remap it for me
I have noticed that the exhaust is very sooty which with my N/Aspirated experience tells me it is running rich Could it be mapped for high fuel thinking that the tubs are uprated?

You will have to forgive my lack of knowledge but i have never touched a mappable turbo car.All my experience is with N/Aspirated cars
I am going to give Henstead Motor sport the benefit of the doubt with regard to the fitting of the tubs because as i can see it they can only be put on one way! But i am going to have to get Abbey/RK to map it as H/M/S can not remap at the moment as they are a relatively new company!
Is there anything i am missing that is blatently obvious or is it just a case of weak std tubbies
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as i have a finite bank balance  
Cheers boys and girls
JAY :smokin:


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## deano (Jan 26, 2003)

Could you post a pic of the exhaust please mate Im very interested to see it


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## scorchio69 (Jun 2, 2004)

You say that you have went throught two ste of turbo,s am i correct. If so i would say its more than just a coincidence that you are getting dodgy readings from your oil pressure gauge,have you checked the turbine shaft for excessive lift or being seized ( common signs of either oil feed problems to the turbo or white van syndrome, ie 60mph to then stopping at home and just switching the engine off)you could have a sticking spring inside your oil pump causing the problems,try changing the oil several times to tr and flush any sh*te out the engine.I am a nissan hi-tech and if i mind right with our hand held diagnostic consult 2 pretty sure in memo of parameters you can read oil pressure, just ask your local dealer if they could quickly hook it up to consult. If you stayed in central scotland (stirling/falkirk) i could have checked it.good luck scorchio


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

scorchio69 said:


> i would say its more than just a coincidence that you are getting dodgy readings from your oil pressure gauge, ie 60mph to then stopping at home and just switching the engine off)


This is exactly what i thought! Maybe the oil pump itself is on the way out! But forgive me if im wrong, but would my tuner not have noticed a problem when he had the engine out to fit the second set of tubs???? I was told the oil was flushed and new filter was put on!
I forgot to add that i have an apexi T/Timer that is permanently set for 3 mins unless the car has been hammered then i set it for 5 mins
(much to the neighbours disgust)


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## deano (Jan 26, 2003)

Why would your tuner take the engine out to fit the turbos  

And wheres the pic of this 5" exhaust


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Was told by him that that was the easiest way to change the tubbies mate!
I will put up pic v soon but its pi****g down with rain and im not getting soaked just to crawl under my girl (5" ground clearance) and take a photo
Patience is a virtue     
It will be up for sale soon as pikey sends me his!!
It needs a decat pipe fabricating but im sure you know someone who can do that  
JAY


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## deano (Jan 26, 2003)

I do know someone who could make a decat  

Ok do you know the make of the exhaust thats on there ?


Also if your Tuner charged you for labour for taking out the engine just to change turbos then hes ripping you off , Ive never heard of any tuner taking out an engine for a simple turbo swap   You sure you didnt have any other work aswell


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

The zorst is a Kakimoto racing (special racing series) ?????
Never heard of them but i suppose you may have done!
The od of the pipes is not 5" that is the tail!!!!!!!!
The pipework under the car is 3+3/4"
The tuner charged me £500 for fitting the tubbies,flushing the engine,changing the filter and fitting an HKS hard pipe kit!
I thought that was fairly good value but if im wrong then please let me know cos i was gonna get him to fit the new ones for me!
Cheers mate
JAY


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## deano (Jan 26, 2003)

I dont know what rate of labour hes charging you but shouldnt be charging you for taking out an engine for a simple turbo swap


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

OK found a new guy locally who has done some work for hope4sun and Andy does not let anyone touch his car without a full interrogation    
His opinion is as follows
First set of tubs prob went due to overboosting (and my v heavy right foot)
Second set look like same thing     
Did try to look after them !!!!! HONESTLY I DID
His opinion of the engine condition overall was pretty good 
We have tested the sender unit and it is indeed f****d !! So there is a new one on order.
The oil pump is working but there is a small amount of play so i need a new one
I need some help now guys
Given the spec of the car i need approprate answers to the following Questions
WHICH TURBO TIMER ?
I have seen the new apexi unit for £380 and seems to be really good as it includes some really nifty features
ECU ? 
Apparently the ecu on mine is piggybacked and an unknown type. It has an Apexi sticker on it but is not Apexi  
Should i go for an RK style stage 1 or a fully mappable jobbie
BOOST CONTROLLER
Which one would you guys recommend as i do not intend going over 1.3 bar
CAMS 
Is this a good upgrade for the car in this tune i would like a little more torque and it seems that this is a good way to get it
If so what spec?
I want about 400 @ the hubs and some reliability    
If that is possible PMSL
Your help would be most appreciated guys 
Cheers 
JAY


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## SteveC (Jul 2, 2001)

If you will really be happy with 400 bhp then a stage one ecu upgrade will be cool.

if you have got the bug (i suspect this is the case) then get a mappable ECU they are a bit more pricey but will save you in the long run when you decide to chase BHP and Torque!

2 sets of tubbies in 2 months, I'd say that was either really unlucky or there is a oil feed issue. get the oil pump sorted if it is suspect. get some new oil feed pipes to take oil between the block and the tubbies. on my 200sx I used braided ones which are a lot easier to put back on.

you have most of the ingerdients for 400bhp now, so once the tubbies are on and the boost is set then see if you need a new ECU. it may cope with this low power.

as for TT then if you want your alarm to work go for a clifford add on if you are not bothered then any will do.

if you have a cat 1 alarm there are lots of issues to get it working though because the fuel pump is disabled when you arm the alarm.

good luck.
Steve


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## Hope4Sun (Jul 28, 2003)

I'm glad ya getting her sorted out now mate , Gary will do ya proud, i will booking mine into Abbey shortly for the new ECU and remap and a few other toys , once i've posted some questions on here about which route to take next.

Andy


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## Pikey (Feb 19, 2004)

Boost Controller - I'm getting a GReddy Profec B spec II. Not the fanciest out there, but it does the job, well presented, and cheap if you get it from the right place


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Not thought about the alarm!!!!!
How does that effect it cos i am having a new one fitted and if there are "issues" then i need to sort them first!  
JAY


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

I would leave the gadgets and change the oil pump better than a 6K engine rebuild plus more turbos


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

I have decided after much chats with every one to get a new std oil pump I have seen however a "collar" that fits the end of the crank!!!!
Does this need to have the crank out to be fitted and is it a good idea ?????
any other things that are necessary while i have the engine out?
I have a 13 row oil cooler but need a sandwich/take off plate !!
Any one know part nos or suppliers so i can connect this up while the pump is being done    
Cheers guys
JAY


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## Pikey (Feb 19, 2004)

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?t=24024

Might help


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

You are a star man :smokin: 

Thats just what i needed to see  
Something that does not break my bank managers heart
pmsl
JAY


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

*Update*

Car is now booked in for the following on the 28th
Fit new hybrid garret t28s  £1400
Fit 13 row oil cooler and ducting £110
Fit new Std oil pump £278
Fit new Std oil pressure sensor £87
Fit decat pipe (bashed the crap out of a spare)  £foc 
Fit Circle earth system (properly)  £41
Refit colour coded head and pulley covers £60
Complete flush and all coolants replaced £8
Using mobil 1 racing oil 15w50 + filter £56
All new gaskets and seals inc oil feed pipes to tubbies £150
Labour (estimate at the moment) £560
TOTAL £2750
      
See signature


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Fit new hybrid garret t28s 
Fit Denso iridium plugs 
Fit new Std oil pump 
Fit new Std oil pressure sensor 
Fit decat pipe (bashed the crap out of a spare)  
Fit Circle earth system (properly)  
Refit colour coded head and pulley covers 
Complete flush and all coolants replaced 
Using mobil 1 racing oil 15w50 + filter 
All new gaskets and seals inc oil feed pipes to tubbies
Test clean and refit injectors
New nismo caps (oil and rad)
claen afm,s and refit

cost inc vat parts and labour
£3100
Not too bad then 
Pick her up on friday  :smokin:


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Well !!!!!!
I got her back today and im not too pleased at the mo!!!!
not sure why, but on boost she still smokes a lil and she is now blowing the dipstick out  
Have called gary and booked the car back in to have a leakdown test!!!!
(compression check was done cold and showed a 1.5%variance over all six cylinders)
Not sure what a leakdown test is! but he wanted to do it so im trusting his judgement.
And hes doing it for nowt so he must be sure he will get some idea of whats wrong with her!!
Would having decent oil pressure now blow the stick out on its own (is it just worn and not putting up as much resistance as before) 
The car as a whole runs smoother and quieter than it has ever done so i am somewhat bemused at the smoke and the dipstick problem!! 

I think i have resigned myself to a couple of months hard saving and a rebuilt bottom end. I am beginning to get to the end of my rope and a full rebuild seems to be the only way to put my mind at rest now!!


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

blowing dipstick out generally means cyl pressure blowing past the rings, ie your engines fooked.

MIGHT be blocked breathers etc tho...

soon find out

good luck!


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

While he's at it change the oil to something decent.

J.


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## turboslippers (Nov 2, 2003)

blueskygtr said:


> Would having decent oil pressure now blow the stick out on its own (is it just worn and not putting up as much resistance as before)
> QUOTE]
> 
> Jay, mine occasionally pops the dipstick out a bit as its well loose. Spoke to Abbey and its not uncommon. Obviously I was concerned but they remembered my car and said bottom end was sweet as on my car. I should obviously check the breather hoses but have been lazy. I also need to order a new dipstick...


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Just thoght i would finish this thread off as i have now decided on a path and i am gonna take it!!!!
Last lot of work was 
Fit new hybrid garret t28s 
Fit new Std oil pressure sensor
Fit Circle earth system (properly) 
Refit colour coded head and pulley covers 
Using Havoline oil 5w50 + filter 
All new gaskets and seals inc oil feed pipes to tubbies 
Test clean and refit injectors 
New nismo oil cap 

Next stage of work
JE pistons rings
Wiseco rods/bolts/caps
Rebore to necessary amount
Steel head gasket (prob Tomei)
Tomei uprated oil pump

Well thats the list for gary to sort should be ready just in time for winter  
Oh well back to the carlton for a while  
JAY


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

thats some painful reading mate 

hope it all comes together for you

mook


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Update time !!
This has taken a lot longer and been a lot harder to decide on what i wanted to do!! The more i read the more confused i got about what parts needed changing and what tuning route to go down so finally i have made all the choices and the parts are all on order and the work starts on 1 NOV

The work is being carried out by Gary "@ APTuning in Lenwade Norfolk and i am looking forward to getting the car back in due course!

Work carried out so far before bottom end failure

Resprayed Bonnet,bumper,boot,spoiler
Refinished Ciclar 17"alloys
Tein flex dampers and cut down springs  
7.5in alpine screen
In dash DVD,cd,tuner
Blitz turbo timer
Apexi air filter kit
Hks hard pipe kit
Full Kakimoto racing series exhaust including equal length dowpipes
Decat pipe
New hybrid garret t28s with all steel internals
Cusco breather catch tank
Goodridge style Top radiator hose replacement 
New Std oil pressure sensor
Circle earth system 
Colour coded head and pulley covers 
Havoline oil 5w50 + filter 
All new gaskets and seals inc oil feed pipes to tubbies 
Cleaned and tested injectors 
New nismo oil cap
Front and rear Strut braces
New colour coded leather gaitors

Work to be carried out on this visit!

Tomei pon cams 260 in 258out
Apexi pulleys
Cusco brake stopper
Nismo oil pump
Tomei timing belt
Grex forged pistons
Arp rod bolts
Ngk iridium plugs
Nismo fuel regulator
Tomei steel gasket set (head tubbies inlet and exhaust + Head grommet)
Mocal filter relocation kit
Mocal oil cooler + thermostatic controller 
Bespoke air filter kit
Battery relocation using BMW remote terminals
Headlight vent with Fireblade headlight 
Bailey motorsport alloy header tank and washer bottle
Still undecided on boost controller (prob be apexi of some type)

Planned for June 05

Apexi Power FC
Tomei fuel rail 
700cc injectors
Nismo fuel pump
Poss bigger tubbies depending on performance of the hybrids
Interior alcantara retrim in original colours


Watch this space guys will keep you all posted


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## JGTR (Jul 8, 2004)

> Is there a way of testing the oil pressure more accurately/replacing the sender with a new/uprated one?


Yeah, remove the sender and hook up an oil pressure gauge, any half decent garage should have one with all the appropriate connections. Its the first thing that should be done if you are having problems with oil pressure.
Jay


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

I am trying to keep this story all on one thread so i have a complete record of the life of my sky 
Sorry if some of the posts seem a bit lengthy but its as much for my records as to let you all know whats going on 
Got some bad news from Gary @ APTuning today and will post up some pics for some advice soon
My engine looks to have mullered itself due to bad det  
I have oval bores that are badly scratched but it has not been rebored before so thats ok  
Has damaged the face of the head though Gary says there is a possibilty that it can be fixed by skimming etc 
My question is for those who are mathematicaly knowledgeable  
I can get a 1.8 mm head gasket and i beleive the tomei pistons are low compression but i can not find the values for them How much can i skim off the head safely whilst still keeping a good comp ratio

The final rebuild spec is as follows 

Clifford turbo timer
HKS air intake kit
HKS hard pipe kit
HKS pulleys
Kakimoto racing series exhaust Decat including equal length dowpipes
Nismo 555cc injectors
Nismo FPR
Nismo oil pump
Nismo shells
STD fuel rail
STD fuel pump
Tomei Super grommet gasket set 
Tomei pon cams 260 in 260 out
Tomei timing belt
Tomei forged pistons
Arp rod bolts
ATI crank damper
Ngk iridium plugs
Garret t28s hybrids with all steel internals
Cusco breather catch tank
Circle earth system 
Mocal Filter relocation kit and 12 row oil cooler
Headlight vent with Fireblade headlight 
Bailey motorsport alloy header tank and washer bottle
Greddy profec b boost controller
Apexi Power FC

Any guesses on HP would be good too
Cheers 
JAY


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## SteveC (Jul 2, 2001)

with 550's the max you can get without running lean is about 550 BHP.

dunno if the turbos will cope with that though... 

it is easy to work out theoretical max power on a 6 cylinder engine as it usually equals the injector size cc=bhp. so 550 cc injectors = 550 bhp (or therabouts) max.

don't know if the fuel pump will keep em wet running 550 though, it may be worth getting an aftermarket one, be a shame to blow another one to the same cause.

sounds like it will be pretty entertaining though 
/Steve


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

blueskygtr said:


> ...i am going to have to get Abbey/RK to map it as H/M/S can not remap at the moment as they are a relatively new company!


I remapped RK's BNR32 just before TOTB3, he was quite sceptical about the dyno, but after an hour, and armed with another 70 lb/ft of torque (NO-ONE in the world can set cams up on the road, no matter what they say) he was fully convinced


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Best of luck with this,

I think you will find the standard gasket is 1.2mm and its from this you can work out your skimming allowance. I think its more to do with piston/valve clearance than compression ratio - but am often wrong !!   

If memory serves I had 0.5mm taken off my head, ran a 1.6mm headgasket meaning an overall diference equivalent to just taking 0.1mm off the head/block and compression ratio was therefore increased a tad, but not too much, and there would be no worries about bending a valve.

Dan mapped the Bomber with some pretty impressive results (although not impressive enough to make his sig !!   ), and has just managed to remap it with the new bigger injectors for its new owner with even more impressive results.

J.


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

Just a quick question - I appreciate UK tuner prices are a contentious topic but the people you've mentioned are doing or have done work on your car I've never heard of. Is it wise to get non-Skyline specialists doing this sort of work?

If I'm way off base here and this "Gary @ APTuning" and "Henstead Motor sport" are in fact totally kosher, then I'll happily eat humble pie  .. it's just if I took my Skyline to a Ford dealership I imagine they would bugger it up good and proper, not maliciously but simply through inexperience.. I dunno.


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## Pikey (Feb 19, 2004)

Gary is more of a 200SX man to date if I remember any of my drunken conversations with Jay at JAE (which I dont, really, lol)  

It depends what you're having done IMHO. If you're having a specialist thing looked at, like the 4WD system or the Hicas - something that _requires_ specialist knowledge - then you would be wise to take your car to someone likely to know about that sort of stuff. An oil change, a cambelt change, brake pads, MOT etc can be done anywhere you know and trust.

All my work has been done at a Ford dealership  But that doesn't really count as it's just using the ramp etc there - me and my brother are doing all the work.


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

Of course - oil changes, cambelt, even probably your regular servicing can probably be done by most dealerships. Some people even do it themselves! (I wish I could!)

But engine rebuilds? Checking ECU maps?


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## Pikey (Feb 19, 2004)

Engine rebuilds - depends on your attitude very much. If I had enough money to afford to buy an R34, I would also have enough money to pay for the services of very good, very experienced chaps to look after it, and rebuild it if it were to go wrong.

Myself, and my R32, I look at it as an opportunity to learn and research and have a go at something myself. Owning a car, for me, is a hobby. That includes driving it, going on holiday in it, washing it, fixing it, modifying it, taking it to shows etc etc - every part of it is enjoyable to me. I would rather be doing this myself than having it all done for me and all I get to do is pay the bill at the end. That would not be enjoyable at all  

There wasnt a single thing on my old Civic that I didnt do myself. I retrimmed the interior, I fitted a new steering wheel, fitted a nitrous kit - none of which I had any experience of, and I did a pretty bloody good job even if I do say so myself. OK I didnt rebuild the engine, but until a few months ago the prospect of removing and refitting an engine would have scared the crap out of me  

There are two things I dont trust myself with however, and that's brakes and cambelts. And that's only because I'm paranoid.


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## Dave_R1001 (Nov 24, 2002)

Pikey said:


> There are two things I dont trust myself with however, and that's brakes and cambelts. And that's only because I'm paranoid.


Cambelts I'll agree with you on.... Brakes are nice and easy though! 

Best of luck Blueskygtr.... Sounds like you havent had it easy!


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Take a look at the 200 sx owners site and ask the guys there what they think !!!!!!! 
As for henstead then i wont be dealing with them again ! Not because they are bad but just because i trust gary implicitly and know his work ethos is what i like IE spotless and methodical !!!
But i do see your point and agree 100% i would not trust my girl with just anyone!


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Another update 
Now i have some photohosting sorted 
My bores look like this







[/IMG] 
and the piston!!!








And the head has some DET damage as you can see








Dont look too healthy eh lol
Gary said ha cant beleive the thing actually ran !!!
There are 2 sides of the piston are black showing no signs of contact with the bores The other 2 sides are scored to hell and metal coloured
Note i say 4 sides as the bores are eliptical :-(

JAY


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

If curiousity killed the cat, then totally unsuitable mapping killed the piston(s). Nasty.


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

There was no "mapping " up to this point mate was running a std ecu from all accounts seems the boost had been upped by other means  

JAY


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## dan0h (Jul 26, 2002)

Eeek, theres the answer then, thats bad news. I guess it'll be good for all those "you can run more boost on the standard ECU" people  

Hope its all fixed up for ya soon dude...


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Just a bit of shameless advertising here but even before i get the car back i know shes gonna be ace  

Spent some time at the workshop polishing some of the bits up and have never seen such a collection of performance cars in one place before :smokin: 

Time for bigger premises v soon i guess Gary !!!   

AP-Tuning 

Jay


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