# Detailing



## Kirky R33 (Mar 20, 2004)

Hi folks,


I have got a white r33, it has light swirl marks in the paint and iam using turtle wax extreme wax at the moment and it doesnt give me the shine i want,

What should i do/use to get my paint work to mint condition with a deep shine

i have been looking at meguiars products, but theres so many i dont know which would be best!


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## Nismoalex (Sep 24, 2003)

PM Alex Creasey........ he knows everything you need to know!


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## Alex Creasey (Jun 5, 2002)

Hi Kirky,

First off, colours like white and silver are very hard to get a deep wet look shine, compared with darker colours..... It is possible but it takes a little work.

To get rid of the swirls you'll need some sort of polish to remove them. If your working by hand (rather than using some sort of proper buffer), it will probably take a little time but it will be worth it in the long run. Alot of 'off the shelf' consumer polish products contain fillers that help give the impression you've removed the relevant swirls but, after a few washes they will show through again. A polish generally doesn't contain any, or very little wax, so you will have to wax after polishing.

Wax/ sealant - Both similar.... A carnauba based wax contains natural ingredients and usually help create a deeper/ wet look to the paint. Again, the darker the paint, the deeper/ wetter the look possible..... Sealants are just polymer based/ synthetic waxes. They tend to last a little bit longer than carnauba based waxes but, tend to give a more reflective shallower finish compared with the deeper look of the carnaubas. Sealants are often better on light colours where you can achieve high reflectivity but, not so much a deep looking finish. (just a general rule of thumb..... Not gospel).

The main thing then is to use things that won't create more swirls after all your work..... Things like sponges can cause swirls if your not careful when washing as they tend to push the dirt off the car rather than absorb it....... T-shirts when removing polish/ wax for exactly the same reason. Don't use something if it's fallen on the ground without a thorough clean, as you'll just push the dirt around the bodywork....etc etc....

Anyway, hope this helps.... If you have any specific products in mind feel free to pm me and I'll help where I can .


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## Kirky R33 (Mar 20, 2004)

cheers,

you have a pm


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## tim b (Jan 5, 2004)

> The main thing then is to use things that won't create more swirls after all your work..... Things like sponges can cause swirls if your not careful when washing as they tend to push the dirt off the car rather than absorb it......


What's the deal with using sponges, are they the best thing to use for washing?

My dad always uses a brushy thing on a hose pipe to get the dirt off his car, his reasoning being that the constant flow of water keeps rinsing the dirt from the bristles, while sponges hold the grit and drag it around.

I disagree with this and use a sponge and a bucket of soapy water, because some Autoglym training video I was sad enough to watch said that brushes are very bad for the paint, and that a sponge is the way to go, though I am not totally sure why. It is possible to bang the bodywork with the plastic bit of the brush, maybe this is why?

Obviously if you drop the sponge on the ground it will drag grit around, and keeping sloshing it around in the bucket helps to keep it grit free, but what about when you are sponging the mucky bits. Surely the sponge holds onto the grit and drags it around for the part of the panel you are doing, before you dunk it back in the bucket.

Sorry for such a sad post about sponges, but what is the proper way to do it, and why?


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## Alex Creasey (Jun 5, 2002)

The point about sponges generally stems from the fact joe bloggs washes his car, wheels, arches etc etc, collecting all manner of dirt and pushing it around on the paintwork of their car, potentially causing swirls. Theres no real order to the way average Joe does things. 
A product like a wash mitt that has a pile to it absorbs far more and reduces the risk of the dirt coming into contact with the paint. Do the arches, sills etc with the same mitt before doing the bodywork, it all goes out the window and you shouldn't be surprised if the mitt causes swirls as well.
My personal way is use a mitt for the upper bodywork, and a sponge for the sills and arches, so it doesn't matter how dirty the sponge gets, it won't go anywhere near the mitt or the paint on my car.

Theres no real wrong or right product to use..... Just lots of different ways of doing things. The most basic way is work from the top downwards, this should reduce the risk somewhat if not completely.

Cheers.


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## tim b (Jan 5, 2004)

Okey doke, that makes a bit more sense.

I always wash from the roof panel downwards, but never do the bumpers or anywhere below the level of the wheels with the same sponge. I use one newish sponge for the body panels, and a separate one for the lower bumpers and lower door edges/around the sills, where all of the gritty mud stuff collects. I always do these bits last, so the grit only ever goes downwards onto the floor.

Thanks for that, I best stop lecturing my dad now for using the brush thing on his car.  

One more thing though, (now I've just washed my car and its drying in the garage awaiting a wax), when I polish/wax, is it good to use an electric powered hand held polisher/waxer machine when waxing, or do these leave lots of swirls as they are orbital. I know they are meant to be random orbital, but they can't be all that random. I thought you were meant to polish in straight lines, not little circles 'cos of swirls. 

Doing it by hand takes ages though. (polishing  ).


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

What you want is a Porter Cable orbital polisher.

Phil


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## tim b (Jan 5, 2004)

Oh. How much, where from, how effective?

I have always been a bit dubious about powered polishers, as its apparently fairly easy to go through the paint. I thought I'd give one a try on my mate's old Beemer a while ago, (it was old, honest).

I got the polisher thing, whacked some polish on the orbital pad bit, and whizzed it around the bonnet. No probs there, so I held it on the edge of the front wing, where it curves round from the bonnet to the side where the front wheel is.

Rested it there for about three to four seconds, with not a lot of pressure, and hey presto, there's the primer.  Thankfully not my car, and mate didn't care too much, (in fact he killed the car by blowing the head gasket and warping the head about a week later).

Always avoided those things since.


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## Alex Creasey (Jun 5, 2002)

Philip.... Oh yes! 
For applying polishes with they are great, not cheap ... about £100 and a US-UK transformer. You do have to be careful with the paint but I've had mine going on a year and never had a problem. Start mild and build up if needed is the best way to look at it.

Tim.... The type of buffer you mention is fine for applying wax with.... as long as both surfaces (pad + bodywork) are clean and dirt free there should be no real risk of swirling. The only real risk would be if the pad quality is cr4p and causes swirls in itself.

The straight lines/ circular motions shouldn't make to much difference but, I tend to use more of a straight line technique flowing along the car...... The theory is that if you do cause any scratches, they are less visible in a straight line, than circular swirls that show at pretty much any angle.

Cheers .


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

After washing the skyline for the first time in 3 months (how bad do i feel) and washing the father in laws Jag, then starting to hand polish, i decided enough was enough.

Ran a covering of clenser on the jag, buffed if off, and the paint still has a gritty feeling. i.e. it makes a noise if you run your hand over it. Cocentrated on a small section and polished properly, and it came up mirror smooth. but jags are BIG cars.

Skyline was just as bad, AND i found some new scratches (baffled!)

so, i've decided to stump up for a porter cable polisher. Although i'm a total novice, Alex assures me it'll be ok.

so, ordering today, and i'll post up my results when i've used it. if it comes up as well as a proper hand polish, i'll be happy. If it looks remotelty like Alex's car, i'll be proper proper chuffed!



mook


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## Alex Creasey (Jun 5, 2002)

If the car feels 'gritty' even after polishing etc then think about a clay bar. They are like a hi-tech putty thats you use with a quick detail spray or a shampoo solution and lightly rub over the paintwork. It sounds scary but if the car is clean and your careful they pull off all the cr*p that sits on top of the paint that you can't really se but can feel..... Theres a good article here: http://www.bettercarcare.com/articles.php?articleId=14

Cheers.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

i think more than anything its that we didn't put enough elbow grease into the polish. Problem with a clay bar, as my road is essentially a dirt track, i can't keep the car dust free for more than about 15 mins 

a good coating of SSR2 and the machine should hopefully take the jag back far enough.

the skyline isn't so bad, just wants a good buffing


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## RB211 (Feb 5, 2005)

*CLAY BAR*



Alex Creasey said:


> If the car feels 'gritty' even after polishing etc then think about a clay bar. They are like a hi-tech putty thats you use with a quick detail spray or a shampoo solution and lightly rub over the paintwork. It sounds scary but if the car is clean and your careful they pull off all the cr*p that sits on top of the paint that you can't really se but can feel..... Theres a good article here: http://www.bettercarcare.com/articles.php?articleId=14
> 
> Cheers.


Clay bars are fantastic for removing entrained grit, used regularly it removes grit (you can sometimes hear it) and saves the paint from having that grit polished into it - in other words you yould use a new songe on every panel of your car, polish it with 20 clean terry rags, but if the dirt is dug in then you'll always get the odd swirl.


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## hyrev (Apr 30, 2004)

Yesterday I used a Makita machine with the wool bonnet, labeled for final waxing. I put on the Meguiar's NXT high tech wax and all went smooth. The finish felt like glass, very smooth. I was impressed. Later that night, i go to my car and in the moonlight and lights from the parking lot I noticed a sh!tload of swirl marks - doh. I was trying to figure out what I did wrong. I used a brand new wool bonnet, I have used this wax before by hand and never had any swirl marks. So, when I came home, around 10:30 pm, I put on another coat of wax by hand, only on the bonnet. After letting it dry to a haze, I removed it and the swirl marks are gone. It looks even better, more reflection too. What did I do wrong? I used plenty of wax with the Makita power tool, perhaps not enough? Should I have coated the bonnet completely first? I had it on the lowest speed, as I did not want to burn the paint. So maybe I should have set it to higher speed? I was just baffled. Perhaps my technique sucks. I have never ever had a problem with the cheap-o orbital Sear's machine. Any ideas on how to avoid this would be helpful. I am glad I only did the roff and bonnet. Now I just need to do the roof by hand to remove the swirl marks.


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## hyrev (Apr 30, 2004)

this is the one I used.


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## Alex Creasey (Jun 5, 2002)

Wool bonnets, even when used for waxing can be quite aggresive as they can create heat alot quicker than foam pads. Also, if your using something like a wax you only need a very low speed... You don't need to build up any heat as your not trying to work a polish, just apply a finishing product.

Rotaries, unlike the random orbit machines don't jiggle and have a forced spin, therefore again, can be more aggresive, and are prone to leaving 'holograming' ... almost like swirlmarks but, more uniform and lighter in the paint. It's just a case of practising with pads and products to get properly accustomed to the machine.

Sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs

.


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## hyrev (Apr 30, 2004)

Thanks, I guess I was trying to work the wax, in all honesty. I had it set to the lowest speed as well. I will give it another shot today. After I applied a coat by hand, the holograming went away. I just used the bonet it came with, labeled for final waxing.


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