# Who is the best rb mapper



## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I think this might cause some conflict but who would you say is best at mapping the rb engines in the uk?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

What makes an RB any different to any other engine is the first question. 

As to who is the best mapper, you pays your money and takes your chances, I've had quite a few maps from poor driveability through to completely bore washed from the 'specialists' so now I use an independent and have had great results. 

Seems you don't actually have to have any qualifications or experience to call yourself a specialist these days, you can just be a wine merchant or post man one day and a specialist the next.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

matt j said:


> What makes an RB any different to any other engine is the first question.
> 
> As to who is the best mapper, you pays your money and takes your chances, I've had quite a few maps from poor driveability through to completely bore washed from the 'specialists' so now I use an independent and have had great results.
> 
> Seems you don't actually have to have any qualifications or experience to call yourself a specialist these days, you can just be a wine merchant or post man one day and a specialist the next.


Lol I no exactly what you mean Matt, there's just so many tuners out there now it's hard to pick. I just thought someone what has done rbs no them better so can get better results quicker not that cost comes into it. 

You use Owen developments don't you Matt?


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

The two best mappers were RIP Tweenie and Gary at Gtart.

Gary had some good building of high compression engines skills and fine tuning but he was a crook and just got greedy when he couldnt nick items off one car to put on another as the cars stopped coming in.

Always amazes me Fuggles car was not followed up, like he just walked away and said oh well. Thats how it comes across on here anyhow.

Today: The UK's best mappers.........well ..theyre probably out there somewhere not available to likes of you and I...........


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

There are some GOOD mappers out there, not sure it's possible to say who is the best.

Mel, if Gary was one of the best mappers, I shudder to think what some of the others are like. He was a very good engine builder but his mapping was very much trial and error and lacking in depth original thinking, IMHO.

Jason at Infomotive has impressed me with his approach, analysis of data logging and so on, but he isn't in UK.

[email protected] can put the effort in too. There are others.

But in all these things its about how much are you prepared to invest in getting the very most out of your build configuration? You could spend £5000 extracting every horsepower and best torque curve. But find £3000 on parts and a less 'best' map could deliver more bang.

Your question is inadequately qualified for necessary relativity.

DaveG


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## Umar (Jul 5, 2005)

Its good to know this as I'll be in the process of having my car mapped too.

I believe the best mapper for a particular ECU is more of a question. 

As Matt says... How different is the RB compared to others? 

Some mappers look at figures whilst others think about engine safety and reliability.

So would it be better to break it down in a list.... For e.g

mappers for these Ecus and ratings alongside them from past experience??

Syvecs
Link
Motec
Vipec
HKS
Apexi?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I do think mapping has a lot to do with the guy on the day and the amount of effort they put in. You say why is the rb different to any other engine then why should what Ecu I'm running matter? There all engine management. I am running a syvecs s6. 

From what I've read I found good comments about Martin at mb automotive and Ryan griffin. Would just like some solid reveiws.


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## Richie3164 (Feb 16, 2007)

Umar said:


> Its good to know this as I'll be in the process of having my car mapped too.
> 
> I believe the best mapper for a particular ECU is more of a question.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I disagree. My R33 GTR was mapped by Matt Horner from The Racing Line in Halifax, now trading under the name TRL Developments. He is allegedly an expert with Mitsubishi Evo's. Anyway he blew my engine up. Stick to Mappers who have good reputations with RB engines as they work on them daily and know the limits of all the component parts, their is no substitution for experience.

Richie


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## Umar (Jul 5, 2005)

Engine is an engine, 

To make more reliable power you need to control Knock. Some ECUs have better features compared to others.


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## KM BlackGTR (Mar 17, 2009)

Yep, Wine merchant ! Pissed myself at that ! !


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Richie3164 said:


> Sorry, but I disagree. My R33 GTR was mapped by Matt Horner from The Racing Line in Halifax, now trading under the name TRL Developments. He is allegedly an expert with Mitsubishi Evo's. Anyway he blew my engine up. Stick to Mappers who have good reputations with RB engines as they work on them daily and know the limits of all the component parts, their is no substitution for experience.
> 
> Richie


I nearly brought a evo done by trl befor I got the skyline. Glad I didn't


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

I guess Gary's build supported his Maps a little ATCO.

KNock is definitely the most important factor. Perhaps buy a knock amp and let that tell the average tuner when theyve gone too far.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Umar said:


> Engine is an engine,
> 
> To make more reliable power you need to control Knock. Some ECUs have better features compared to others.


I have a syvec s6gb surely that's good enough?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Mel HKS said:


> I guess Gary's build supported his Maps a little ATCO.
> 
> KNock is definitely the most important factor. Perhaps buy a knock amp and let that tell the average tuner when theyve gone too far.



Surely the no by there det cans?


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## Umar (Jul 5, 2005)

Richie3164 said:


> Sorry, but I disagree. My R33 GTR was mapped by Matt Horner from The Racing Line in Halifax, now trading under the name TRL Developments. He is allegedly an expert with Mitsubishi Evo's. Anyway he blew my engine up. Stick to Mappers who have good reputations with RB engines as they work on them daily and know the limits of all the component parts, their is no substitution for experience.
> 
> Richie


TRL is a Joke, Matt Horner has blown his own Evo X Engine in the past. How much of a tuner is he then?

He likes chasing figures but not reliability (another example is his Blue box shape Civic that ran at TOTB several years ago) more noise than Go. Running over 600bhp and was in the 12s.

He could'nt even configure an Apexi SAFC in a civic, ended up refunding the guy as he made the car slower.

I dont like putting anyone down but these are Facts.

Some tuners are scared of Mapping an RB. they stick with what they know best. Yes go to a tuner who knows these Engines better.. Its a start, but make sure you sit down and discuss what you want to achieve.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Umar said:


> TRL is a Joke, Matt Horner has blown his own Evo X Engine in the past. How much of a tuner is he then?
> 
> He likes chasing figures but not reliability (another example is his Blue box shape Civic that ran at TOTB several years ago) more noise than Go. Running over 600bhp and was in the 12s.
> 
> ...



Unless people say who they think is right up there how do any of us no who to talk to. I'm a big believer on if the right parts are used why should you need to go easy on a engine? Unless it's stock of corse


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Although an engine is an engine, I think it pays to use someone who has mapped a few RB26s.

For example, no 6 piston can run lean due to the shape of the (standard)intake plenum, so tuners with experience increase the fuel to that cylinder a little to compensate.

Mark @ Abbey mapped mine and it runs well.

Other include MGT, Ryan who I believe helped develop the Syvecs, RB motorsport.

RK tuning use a mapper experienced with RBs.

Sure there are quite a few more dotted around, but I'm happy with Abbey.

Cheers,

Mark


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

Ryan at 2bartuning is IMHO one of the best mappers in the world, seriously clever guy.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Ron uses Richard at redline he has mapped lots of them


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## Umar (Jul 5, 2005)

Go to a reputable one and stick with them. Whether if they are near or far, chances are your not going to see them again soon unless your wanting to upgrade.

The big Question is which 1?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

JamieP said:


> Ryan at 2bartuning is IMHO one of the best mappers in the world, seriously clever guy.



Ryan g is who I originally wanted to map my car, he is the technical support guy for syvec now that's surely saying something?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Umar said:


> This is why I've asked about a rating from past experience with mappers. Like making a list.
> 
> You and I know that mappers want our money. So why dish out several times, go to a reputable one and stick with them. Whether if they are near or far, chances are your not going to see them again soon unless your wanting to upgrade further.
> 
> I have spoken with a few tuners in the past. So people shed some light on this please?



Got to say mate Im happy with rk tunning for all my build needs


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

for mapping experience it will be ryan g as he maps world wide on a daily basis, hes a great guy aswell helped me out at a very reasonable price. 


I have mainly used mgt and abbey and I would recommend both and there are also workshop facilitys with both so you can have anything from a map to a full build all done in house. 

but whoever maps if your on an older ecu (like mine) with no provision for limp mode type stuff a wideband and a keen ear are eccential 
it only takes a diky pump to drop fuel pressure slightly and a perfect map becomes a dead engine very easily.


my aem wideband has saved me 3 engines now which were running very lean at wot but still felt stonking strong !


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## keith (Jun 29, 2001)

Best mapper is Mark Shead of mad developments autronic ecu low 8 seconds over 6 yrs ago with a RB30 and all done without silly gas lol

Look him up knows his stuff


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## Umar (Jul 5, 2005)

scoooby slayer said:


> for mapping experience it will be ryan g as he maps world wide on a daily basis, hes a great guy aswell helped me out at a very reasonable price.
> 
> 
> I have mainly used mgt and abbey and I would recommend both and there are also workshop facilitys with both so you can have anything from a map to a full build all done in house.
> ...


What ECu do you have?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

scoooby slayer said:


> for mapping experience it will be ryan g as he maps world wide on a daily basis, hes a great guy aswell helped me out at a very reasonable price.
> 
> 
> I have mainly used mgt and abbey and I would recommend both and there are also workshop facilitys with both so you can have anything from a map to a full build all done in house.
> ...



That's why I brought a syvecs mate. I also have a plx wideband


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

keith said:


> Best mapper is Mark Shead of mad developments autronic ecu low 8 seconds over 6 yrs ago with a RB30 and all done without silly gas lol
> 
> Look him up knows his stuff



he will only map autronic though great guy really knows his stuff I wouldn't hesitate to pay mark to map any engine I own :thumbsup:


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

Umar said:


> What ECu do you have?



hks fcon vpro 3.2, it does the job and helps my engine make over 700 hp.


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## jonnypolish (Sep 25, 2012)

Richard from Redline mapped mine and it hasn't missed a beat ever since. He does listen to what you want etc and I cant fault it 

I do admire the guys that used to work on my 14, they wouldn't even touch the internals on the skyline because they didn't trust themselves!


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## Umar (Jul 5, 2005)

jonnypolish said:


> Richard from Redline mapped mine and it hasn't missed a beat ever since. He does listen to what you want etc and I cant fault it
> 
> I do admire the guys that used to work on my 14, they wouldn't even touch the internals on the skyline because they didn't trust themselves!


This is a type of tuner you want, who is honest than rinsing your money.

What ECu do you use?


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## D-Ranged (Aug 16, 2007)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> Ryan g is who I originally wanted to map my car, he is the technical support guy for syvec now that's surely saying something?


I wanted him to map mine but he wont touch an ECU without a UK support team.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

D-Ranged said:


> I wanted him to map mine but he wont touch an ECU without a UK support team.


What Ecu do you have?


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## D-Ranged (Aug 16, 2007)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> What Ecu do you have?


Link G4


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I thought Ryan had mapped links


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

I would go with Romain at Eurospec 2000 and Garth at MGT Racing. Not because I know them, but because they have a very good reputation and they have good results in regards to the tuning side of things.


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## amervyn123 (Aug 11, 2012)

how about Paul from Zen Performance? I have read some very good things about him also and I believe he can map a wide variety of ECUs...?...


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## Umar (Jul 5, 2005)

Apparantly Midlands Performance use Zen Performance for mapping


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Nowadays I'd want the build and mapping with the same people, have been burnt before with 'it's the build' or 'it's the map' and going between the two. Or at least I'd want the builder to contract the mapper, because they have experience of who has been good before....


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## MeisterR (Jul 19, 2008)

The most important thing about mapping a car is that the mapper have to car and put time into it.
Anyone can map something very quick and it will "work", but a good map is a very drivable and safe map.

I have use Greg @ Pro Tuner over the years, and he is one of the few person left in the country that I will point to map a car, because I know he will only release a job when it is right.
It may take a long time, and it may cost more, but the end result is always going to be good.

In case anyone wonder what happen to my old engine that blew up, it was because the wire to injector 3 broke at the top of 2nd gear with 2.1bar of boost***8230; so no fault of the map at all without a doubt.

I will be building up a new engine in the range of about 800 bhp, and Greg will be the person mapping it again without a doubt.

Jerrick


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Saifskyline said:


> I would go with Romain at Eurospec 2000 and Garth at MGT Racing. Not because I know them, but because they have a very good reputation and they have good results in regards to the tuning side of things.



I no romain well he done a lot of work to my 500bhp civic he mapped it twice, eurospec 2000 are a great bunch of people. 

My skyline is from eurospec I brought the purple r33 from one of there customers


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

tonigmr2 said:


> Nowadays I'd want the build and mapping with the same people, have been burnt before with 'it's the build' or 'it's the map' and going between the two. Or at least I'd want the builder to contract the mapper, because they have experience of who has been good before....



This is very true mate, that way it's all down to one person


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

Umar said:


> Apparantly Midlands Performance use Zen Performance for mapping


paul blamire from zen mapped my first r32 on -5s and it went like stink, enough to terminal 123 mph at pod at just 1.3 bar held up top.


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## Richie3164 (Feb 16, 2007)

markM3 said:


> Although an engine is an engine, I think it pays to use someone who has mapped a few RB26s.
> 
> For example, no 6 piston can run lean due to the shape of the (standard)intake plenum, so tuners with experience increase the fuel to that cylinder a little to compensate.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more Mark, It was piston 6 that Matt Horner blew a big hole in on my car.

Richie


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## goghat (May 13, 2007)

tonigmr2 said:


> Nowadays I'd want the build and mapping with the same people, have been burnt before with 'it's the build' or 'it's the map' and going between the two. Or at least I'd want the builder to contract the mapper, because they have experience of who has been good before....


That was the main reason I went with Rod Bell, he built my rb28 and then mapped it, it hasn't missed a beat so far


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## Jeff cope (Feb 10, 2014)

Pj Motorsport !!

I've heard they can map the f con ecu ??
Anybody tried them on a gtr ???


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## Endlessr32 (Mar 9, 2014)

I have used and always will use Garth at mgt racing
Very good mapper and they have got a brilliant reputation


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

Paul Blamire....

Very knowledgable guy, syvecs and Motec calibrator, maybe others. he maps the RCM Gobstopper cars and with the attention to detail of the RCM cars it speaks volumes about Paul's abilities.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Paul Blamire....
> 
> Very knowledgable guy, syvecs and Motec calibrator, maybe others. he maps the RCM Gobstopper cars and with the attention to detail of the RCM cars it speaks volumes about Paul's abilities.



Seems Paul has a good reputation, did he map your skyline Conrad?


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

If you're going to get someone else to map it then pick the ECU that gives you what you need and then pick a mapper that is already proficient with it otherwise you'll be paying for them to learn how to get the best out of it.

If the cars mainly a road car then there's a lot to be said for picking an ECU that you can map yourself assuming you have a wideband. It takes time to perfect a map and you can take it to a mapper who might map it on the dyno for four hours and when you get it back you find flat spots etc purely because you're using different cells on the map. If you map it yourself you can spend as much time as it needs to map it. 

Cheers
Stu


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> Seems Paul has a good reputation, did he map your skyline Conrad?


He mapped mine and drivability was very poor, although it has to be said that TR didn't give him the chance to finish it.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

matt j said:


> He mapped mine and drivability was very poor, although it has to be said that TR didn't give him the chance to finish it.



Most of the mapping time is drive ability, my civic went on the rollers on a base map within 40 mins it made 500bhp but it was everything else what took the time.


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> Seems Paul has a good reputation, did he map your skyline Conrad?



No, Paul is doing my AE86 (Motec), my R33 was mapped down south by a so called specialist, it was garbage, coughing spluttering, missing. I then sold the Link ECU and put Syvecs on it, mapped by Pat H of Syvecs, much better result, all the so called drive ability issues that the other tuner blamed on the parts were no longer an issue???


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Choose a mapper who has a good relationship with your engine builder to reduce the risk of buck passing if something goes wrong.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Mookistar said:


> Choose a mapper who has a good relationship with your engine builder to reduce the risk of buck passing if something goes wrong.



Defo right there imo


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## wyn2k (Aug 1, 2013)

MeisterR said:


> The most important thing about mapping a car is that the mapper have to car and put time into it.
> Anyone can map something very quick and it will "work", but a good map is a very drivable and safe map.
> 
> I have use Greg @ Pro Tuner over the years, and he is one of the few person left in the country that I will point to map a car, because I know he will only release a job when it is right.
> ...


Totally agree about greg @ protuner, done a cracking job on my r34, i personally thought he was quite cheap, and really knows his stuff, and like you said wont let the car go until its 100% i didnt leave his place in redditch till half 3 in the morning because he wanted to get the map perfect, if thats not dedication i dont know what is!


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## kociek (Jul 18, 2011)

well i don't know about every body else but Steve from FC tuning did mine an he did a cracking job.i do know allot different people who would vouch for Steve.
if he is the best in UK hard to tell i haven't try any different mapper.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Why don't you change the question and ask who's not happy with their map...


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## chaz_r33_gtr (Aug 6, 2005)

tonigmr2 said:


> Nowadays I'd want the build and mapping with the same people, have been burnt before with 'it's the build' or 'it's the map' and going between the two. Or at least I'd want the builder to contract the mapper, because they have experience of who has been good before....



Yup totally agree which is why I use RB Motorsport... Rod /John/ Grover build awesome engines and Rod takes his time mapping them live on the road with det cans and knows these engines inside out. Rod also runs nice safe maps and doesnt chase a peak figure. You gotta ask yourself is it really worth some extra ignition timing at hight boost for an extra 20-30bhp over a 1000rpm rev range when your starting to risk the engine.. literally its "do ya feel lucky punk ... well do ya" time 

Its the unknown unknows (and worse still with poor mappers the known unknows i.e. danger areas that they should be aware and avoid but are lazy) that get mappers. For example, like not knowing the cylinder 6 runs leaner and needs a bit more fuel.. or how the combination of parts might cause a quirk that needs subtletys in the map rather than. " well other skylines have these kind of bits on and I mapped that ok.. so ill just wack on a map from one of those cars and just a quick check and it will be fine" 

Some people find out the hard way.... but not me


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## TommyGTRLSX (Aug 29, 2012)

Am very happy with mine done by Richard at redline really smooth good part load just feels awesome ! I used to use Tommy field at field Motorsport he was always the bollocks with my old fords and maps super aggressive would love to see what he can do with a RB


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

matt j said:


> Why don't you change the question and ask who's not happy with their map...



But do you think people will name? I'm not so sure, I no I certainly would though


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> But do you think people will name?


I guess we won't know until you ask 
In all seriousness though, I don't see what's to hide as long as it's factual...


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

TommyGTRLSX said:


> Am very happy with mine done by Richard at redline really smooth good part load just feels awesome ! I used to use Tommy field at field Motorsport he was always the bollocks with my old fords and maps super aggressive would love to see what he can do with a RB



Only problem is mate aggressive maps are no good for engines or handling. Seems like every one is happy with redline's mapping


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

matt j said:


> Why don't you change the question and ask who's not happy with their map...


Then the thread will get closed I guess...


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

matt j said:


> I guess we won't know until you ask
> In all seriousness though, I don't see what's to hide as long as it's factual...



I'm not sure how to edit it? I think we should have a list who is happy with and who isn't surely that's fair? 

Why should the thread be closed after all isn't the owners club here for us gtr owners and not tuners?


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

chaz_r33_gtr said:


> Yup totally agree which is why I use RB Motorsport... Rod /John/ Grover build awesome engines and Rod takes his time mapping them live on the road with det cans and knows these engines inside out. Rod also runs nice safe maps and doesnt chase a peak figure. You gotta ask yourself is it really worth some extra ignition timing at hight boost for an extra 20-30bhp over a 1000rpm rev range when your starting to risk the engine.. literally its "do ya feel lucky punk ... well do ya" time
> 
> Its the unknown unknows (and worse still with poor mappers the known unknows i.e. danger areas that they should be aware and avoid but are lazy) that get mappers. For example, like not knowing the cylinder 6 runs leaner and needs a bit more fuel.. or how the combination of parts might cause a quirk that needs subtletys in the map rather than. " well other skylines have these kind of bits on and I mapped that ok.. so ill just wack on a map from one of those cars and just a quick check and it will be fine"
> 
> Some people find out the hard way.... but not me




how can a proper map be done on the road, imo it cant.

you need to at least see the top of 4th which is 150 mph in my r33 ! 

it needs to be done on the dyno and then cruise checked on the road, nobodys arse feel is as accurate and repeatable as a dynapack.

I wouldn't dream of having my genuine 700+ crank hp r33 mapped on the road, it would need to be done at brunters for the wot map, with a 12 second run on the dynapack its putting load on near on a fifth gear pull and out on the road the acts will be lower not higher so safe as can be imo, road mapping is more down to feeling lucky than dyno imo.


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## chaz_r33_gtr (Aug 6, 2005)

yep know what your saying..but its mapped live with wideband lamda.. set cans etc.. and full link logging software. when i say on the road i mean not on a dyno and up to 8250rpm in 4th.. but as the song goes "those days are gone..."


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## samgtr (Aug 4, 2010)

As said previously best is a all in house build and mapping job that way you dont have to worry mapper blaming builder or vice versa, also dyno time is as long as it takes rather then paying by the hour renting a dyno
Im happy with the job Garth has done on my car.


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

chaz_r33_gtr said:


> yep know what your saying..but its mapped live with wideband lamda.. set cans etc.. and full link logging software. when i say on the road i mean not on a dyno and up to 8250rpm in 4th.. but as the song goes "those days are gone..."


ive had a car done years ago live mapped (I cant mention any names) and that was m3 4am job im told lol


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

samgtr said:


> As said previously best is a all in house build and mapping job that way you dont have to worry mapper blaming builder or vice versa, also dyno time is as long as it takes rather then paying by the hour renting a dyno
> Im happy with the job Garth has done on my car.


Jack of all trades, master of none does not work IMHO unless it's a run of the mill build. Seriously, let an engine builder build the engine and a mapper map the ECU, why settle for less than the best if you're investing thousands and to top it off, a specialist engine builder and mapper know nothing of the Skyline Tax all these so called specialist tuners price fixing on here...


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

matt j said:


> Jack of all trades, master of none does not work IMHO unless it's a run of the mill build. Seriously, let an engine builder build the engine and a mapper map the ECU, why settle for less than the best if you're investing thousands and to top it off, a specialist engine builder and mapper know nothing of the Skyline Tax all these so called specialist tuners price fixing on here...



to be fair to mgt mate garth is the mapper and mark builds the engines, the same with abbey mark does the mapping so they do spend a lot of time mapping rather than jack of all trades, but I do see what your saying and I agree matt with anything in life practice makes perfect :thumbsup:

im a prime example tbh I don't have a gcse or any qualifications to my name but ive built a few engines, turbos and gearboxs/final drives and they work as they should but ive spent 23 years of tinkering, fixing, making mistakes and researching/learning and now run the repairs/maintenance of over 20 machines with 95% of all the work done in house


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## KM BlackGTR (Mar 17, 2009)

Loving the Skyline tax added by the Skyline specialists !
Quite amusing to see the specialists promoted on here by people with very little knowledge or experience.


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## samgtr (Aug 4, 2010)

KM BlackGTR said:


> Loving the Skyline tax added by the Skyline specialists !
> 
> Quite amusing to see the specialists promoted on here by people with very little knowledge or experience.



Never claimed to be a pro or veteran with years experience, just sharing my opinion and experience with said mapper used.....


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## Richie3164 (Feb 16, 2007)

Originally Posted by matt j View Post
Why don't you change the question and ask who's not happy with their map...



Dan ep3 turbo said:


> But do you think people will name? I'm not so sure, I no I certainly would though



I will and already have, Matt Horner from The Racing Line now trading as TRL Developments broke my R33 GTR when mapping it to run on UK fuel. He won't dispute it as I won a court case against his workmanship. Hence The Racing Line was dissolved, he did this I believe to avoid paying me substantial damages.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

scoooby slayer said:


> to be fair to mgt mate garth is the mapper and mark builds the engines, the same with abbey mark does the mapping so they do spend a lot of time mapping rather than jack of all trades, but I do see what your saying and I agree matt with anything in life practice makes perfect :thumbsup:


Yes Carl, I've seen some of the expert building skills that these 'engine builders' employ:
(And yes, that is a coat hanger, I can only presume that's what years of building engines equates to...)












scoooby slayer said:


> im a prime example tbh I don't have a gcse or any qualifications to my name but ive built a few engines, turbos and gearboxs/final drives and they work as they should but ive spent 23 years of tinkering, fixing, making mistakes and researching/learning and now run the repairs/maintenance of over 20 machines with 95% of all the work done in house


It's not all about qualifications as you well know but experience. I was once told it takes 20 years to gain 20 years experience, now I know what that means but I didn't appreciate it at the time.


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

matt j said:


> Yes Carl, I've seen some of the expert building skills that these 'engine builders' employ:
> (And yes, that is a coat hanger, I can only presume that's what years of building engines equates to...)
> 
> 
> ...



Omg what is that even for something to do with crank position? Lol who put that there and why?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

That's just the tip of the iceberg Carl, you should see some of their other 'expert' work.
It's not fair on the owner to post more though as it's a disgrace what they've done to his pride and joy!


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

matt j said:


> Yes Carl, I've seen some of the expert building skills that these 'engine builders' employ:
> (And yes, that is a coat hanger, I can only presume that's what years of building engines equates to...)
> 
> 
> ...




What is that all about? How can someone do something like that? I think it terrible how people/company's work on customers cars when they clearly don't give a f**k. If there not prepared to put the right workmanship into something they shouldn't be doing it simple as. I no in my company if we no we can't do something we don't do it and everything we do we do to the best it can be done, that's why we have never had any un happy customers because let's face it your only as good as your last job in my eyes. 

Like Matt says mistakes do happen a people do make mistakes but it's all to do with how the mistakes are corrected what makes a company great. Mapping is the final piece to a car you plough thousands into them then could have some idiot try to map the car a boom it's all over.

Was that coat hanger left on the car Matt? Surely it wasn't?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Dan, as I have been through several issues previously of my own, I often get asked advice from people who are not happy with the level of service and 'finish' that tuners in the UK have given them. 

In the past 6 months alone (not inclusive of the others over the past few years) I have had people contact me and I know that the following tuners, in alphabetical order only have disgruntled customers who are unhappy with the work and subsequent response and are now seeking legal action against them or are trying to negotiating a settlement:
1. Abbey Motorsport
2. MGT
3. Redline Motorsport
4. RK Tuning

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they'd argue that you jus get customers who are never satisfied etc and they probably labelled me in that category, my response to that has always been I've paid for work in good faith and I expect it to be done with the same level of care and expertise I put into my own job. I don't expect to deliver my pride and joy to a garage and drive away with dents, scratches, coat hangers or whatever.

Anyway, back to mapping...


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

To be fair to Ron rk tunning he has been good to me and he is a very honest person. Of corse something must have gone on for you to say this but we only hear the bad sometimes and never the good. 

Got to say it surprises me that the big tuners do have these cases going on and don't settle them in the easiest way as at the end of the day if it wasn't for the customers they would have no business. Who am I to judge that will have to be sorted at court and non of the gtr owners out there will get to hear some of the shocking stories. 

So who you use for your work Matt? Do you do it all yourself?


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## KM BlackGTR (Mar 17, 2009)

The coat-hanger, now that is f4ckin ridiculous ! But doesn't surprise me.
I had a trigger wheel kit off 1 of the ' specialists '
Paid pretty serious money for it & no way would it fit without going elec water & P.A.S. Pumps. Even tho been told it had been fitted & working on 1 of their 32s
Utter Bollocks.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Right, this thread is verging on opinion and speculation so I am temporarily closing it pending admin review.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Ok, to clarify, this thread has been locked at the request of the tuner regarding the above pictures. As they have not been posted by the owner of the car us mods are not party to the full story and cannot be sure there is not a legal case open or otherwise. Our options are as follows.

1.) remove the content and allow the mapping discussion to continue
2.) invite the owner to post himself and give the tuner a right to reply
3.) leave the thread locked as ask you to start a new mapping thread and keep on topic.

To be clear we don't lock these threads to protect paying traders, we lock them to avoid witch hunts and speculation without being party to the full facts. It would be irresponsible of us to allow a thread to run, damaging a reputation, only to find the story told is not the truth by which time the damage is done.

If the owner of the car in question wants to tell his story then he is allowed to do so. The tuner would get right to reply as well but that would be it.

I know Matt may be party to information away from the forum but it has to be presented in a responsible manner and whilst the comments about tuners messing up and skyline tax are all valid, the pictures cannot be seen in their full context unless the owner posts.

I hope that makes sense, it's a difficult balancing act and not one we enjoy having to perform.

Mook


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Talski Has asked me to post the follow response to this thread.



_Dear all,

I have been contacted by admin as well as MGT with regards to this thread, and would like to clear a few things up. I was not aware of the thread about mappers and only became aware when contacted by MGT Racing and told about both the thread and it's content.

Mark has built the engine, and has explained the reason why the coat hanger was used (cam tuning using a DTI gauge). I'm sure Mark would like to come on and comment / explain the reasons for it's use, and can do so better than I can.

The coat hanger had been left on the car by mistake, and they had forgotten to take it off before I collected the car. I have been assured that it is not hazardous and would not have caused any problems remaining on the car.

With regards to other issues / problems on the car, I currently have an independent party reviewing the car top to bottom. Any issues are being photographed and recorded, with an engineers report being produced.

Mark is aware of the issues found so far, has acknowledged mistakes and oversights have been made, and has offered to collect the car at his own expense to take back to his workshop to rectify the issues.

thanks

Tal_


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

And then MGT want to follow up with this. I'm glad we now have perspective.

_Hi all, 

As there seem to be so much controversy over the wire used as a timing marker, I thought I'd explain it's purpose for those who might see it as detrimental. 

When we build engines for high output with certain camshaft combinations and non standard crankshaft pulleys MGT often use a dial gauge and piston stop to find "TRUE" TDC, this is not necessarily where the original marker would be (which is also a little flawed with line of sight potentially giving different readings), we will set a marker often using a piece of stout wire to mark "our" found TRUE TDC position. Once TDC has been found we can use that datum to set the camshafts full lift angles and later on the base ignition timing offset once the engine is running. 

The "wire" or marker does not interfere with any system on the car, is not dangerous and has not caused us to leave shirts or coat's on the floor because we have no hangers! Often as they are for temporary use and we would remove them once the work has been completed but on this occasion it was overlooked, it is not deemed an issue as work to the car is on-going. 

Having spoken with the owner of the car, who also had no understanding of the wire's relevance I can confirm that there is no issue of any description between MGT Racing and the customer of this car and he did not see any issue with the "marker" being there previously or currently. 

I would also like to add that he was not aware of this thread and does not share the same opinion of the OP.

Regards MGT Racing._


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