# When buying a car "To mod or not to mod"



## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

When the nice weather comes along i will be adding a few mods to my car, But as a person who will only buy a standed car will the mods affect the resale of the car. I was thinking were people stand on buying modded cars.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Personally I don't think it reduces the value, but you won't get much extra for it come sale time. So pretty much whatever you spend on mods is lost.

Many people prefer a non-modified car, but someone will buy it with a few mods as they see it as money they've saved if they want to do the same.



PS. It's "does" and not "do's", option 3.


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

If I where in the market for an R35 (and maybe I will be one day), I would most likely look at one with a few sensible mods. I would go for one with no real body or suspension mods mainly. But an exhaust/ecu/gearbox upgrade would be fine.

So if you mod and want to maintain a resale value I would say keep it simple and tasteful  

The car is designed to appeal to a wide audience, the more you personalise it the more niche it becomes and the harder it will get to sell for a good price.


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## Wills_GunR33 (May 16, 2009)

I think it also depends alot on the quality of the mods and agree, how tasteful they are. If you see genuine parts used then it shows to me/buyer that the car has had a lot of money spent on and therefore more likley to have been looked after.


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## MidLifeCrisis (Apr 29, 2011)

A thoughtfully moded car is probably worth the same as a standard one, so the price of mods is lost. But unless the cars had a hard track life it's probably still worth the same as standard to most people. Maybe a little more if someone wants virtually the same mods on their new car.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

CT17 said:


> Personally I don't think it reduces the value, but you won't get much extra for it come sale time. So pretty much whatever you spend on mods is lost.
> 
> Many people prefer a non-modified car, but someone will buy it with a few mods as they see it as money they've saved if they want to do the same.
> 
> ...


Sorry not sure how to edit the poll. But i think i Will be going for a light mod ,Just a y pipe and a cobb, Stage 1 or 2 and leave it at that. Personally i think the car has got plenty of power already but a bit more won't hurt.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

gaz41uk said:


> Stage 1 or 2 and leave it at that. Personally i think the car has got plenty of power already but a bit more won't hurt.


That was my plan... two months later I'm at stage 4. :chuckle:


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

gaz41uk said:


> Sorry not sure how to edit the poll. But i think i Will be going for a light mod ,Just a y pipe and a cobb, Stage 1 or 2 and leave it at that. Personally i think the car has got plenty of power already but a bit more won't hurt.


You want some more options? Let me know and I'll edit it for you. I may even add a few of my own that you've overlooked


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

TAZZMAXX said:


> I may even add a few of my own that you've overlooked


LOL, I can hardly wait


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

It's the overall condition of the car and the mileage I'd be paying more attention to.

I prefer to buy one with mods, that works out cheaper for anyone like myself who plans to heavily mod the car anyway. So having a few things already done to the car would be an advantage and will save you £££s

But the drawback is that mod'ed cars are bound to undergo harsh driving, so do your inspection right before you commit to buying.


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## Kadir (Mar 23, 2008)

If you are going to or plan on selling your car at some stage then..

- don't bother with mods
- keep mods to a minimum and bear in mind that you may well make a loss


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## davidd (Sep 28, 2011)

You can always remove them, I'm thinking exhausts, cobb or wheels etc..


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

I have allways purchased my cars as completely standard and the same applies with the GTR - it did not even have a Y pipe fitted. I would prefer a 25000 mile standard car to a modified 10000 mile car - can't say why, it just feels that bit more secure to me.


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## PhilT246 (Nov 10, 2011)

Having just sold a modded RS6 and just bought a GTR with a few tweaks, there are a few areas that seem important (My opinions are potentially biased to the Audi RS market):

- Insurance and mods are not a good mix. Some buyers can't afford the premiums for cars with mods.

- Keep the OEM parts. I would have preferred to have had the GTR with the OEM parts as well as the upgrades. Reason being is that at the time of sale, stock cars do seem to be more attractive due to the ability to purchase warranty.

- As mentioned above, as the cars go beyond manufacturers warranty the ability to purchase warranty for modded cars may be very tricky, if not impossible. Cars with no warranty and potentially big "consumable/maintenance" bills are difficult to sell.

In my GTR case, I did my homework and thankfully Paul seemed to have made all the decisions I would have made. The perfect car


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

TAZZMAXX said:


> You want some more options? Let me know and I'll edit it for you. I may even add a few of my own that you've overlooked


Hi. I only wanted to change the do's to does thats it, But if you want to add anything be my guest any input is good by me.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

davidd said:


> You can always remove them, I'm thinking exhausts, cobb or wheels etc..


But can't the HPC tell if a cobb has been use at anytime in the cars life.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

gaz41uk said:


> But can't the HPC tell if a cobb has been use at anytime in the cars life.


Yes can see that the ecu has been flashed but not what it was flashed too e.g boost levels. That needs Japan reading vdc data.

I ticked wrong box there....I would buy a modified car so long as the car was modified by a respected tuner, was in excellent condition and did not have a hard track life. Thus far I have modified with bolt ons that can all be removed which I would likely do at sale time, if that sad day ever comes, to sell the parts on separately as many others have said you just loose the money invested if you leave it all on the car. Different story if you go for turbo upgrades etc etc.


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## Fmlad2002 (Aug 29, 2011)

I'd never buy a mod'd car,plus generally it reduces your market appeal when selling.

Doesnt how much external checking you do you can never guage the extra wear and tear extra boost places on the internal components.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

For me, general consumables which are non-OEM mods are a no-brainer. 

The beauty of differing states of tune are in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I see a well-specified reputable tune left on a car at sale time as a relative bargain, as that car will be an amazing car and king of the road. All the better if the tune package that the buyer would have been interested in doing themselves.

The reality is that most cars are low mileage and highly maintained. Certainly I know mine leads a charmed life and spends most of its time lazying around on relatively short trips, i.e. less than an hour. The car is too fast to cane it on the roads with normal traffic and a light squeeze is enough to punt by traffic and make good progress.

The only way to drive them properly is on a track and on a track it's all about learning to be smooth with the car in braking, turning and acceleration to keep the car balanced with the car usually working well in third, fourth and fifth in a 3000-5500 rpm band. Novices are usually sufficiently far off the true pace of the car -and ultra cautious - that the car probably never gets above 7/10th of its potential and this probably represents the majority of occasionally tracked cars.

Such cars are probably working mechanically less hard than in this lifestyle than a car that's never seen the track but who's owner at every opportunity screams the tits off the car on country lanes to the rev-limiter through second-third-second-third-second-third-fourth-third-second-third-second-third-second-third. No way of knowing about that.

Plus on a track the car gets a good even heat soak unlike country lane shenanigans.

So my view is well done tunes are a positive, moderate number of track days are fine with regular maintenance according to fluid temps; and to be honest the ones which get tracked frequently are the best maintained and molly-coddled cars going because they are driven well at 9/10ths and the driver wants his car to be offering tip-top performance.

For me, the smart buyer (who is buying for performance) would seek out reputable tuned cars which take the car up to the MY12 performance or better and takes the time to understand the car's history.

Standard cars are a bit too sluggish compared to the best nowadays... a bit like 996 Turbos are yesterday' s hero. To be honest, there's technically little different between a tuned MY09 and the current MY12 for the same power output. With an LC4 upgrade, it's practically the same car mechanically and in terms of performance; remaining differences being cosmetic tweeks and MFD upgrades.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Aerodramatics said:


> For me, general consumables which are non-OEM mods are a no-brainer.
> 
> The beauty of differing states of tune are in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I see a well-specified reputable tune left on a car at sale time as a relative bargain, as that car will be an amazing car and king of the road. All the better if the tune package that the buyer would have been interested in doing themselves.
> 
> ...


I see what your saying and agree with most of it, But what i'm trying to gauge is what affect it has on resale. 

When i was buying my car one of the first question i asked was had it been tracked/modded and if yes i walk away without thinking.

I think 80/90% of people maybe more would dread to think they were buying a car that had been tracked even knowing that's what he car is made for.

unless you want the car to go faster and work harder why have it tuned, Thats the way i look at it and i think a lot of other people see it the same.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

gaz41uk said:


> I see what your saying and agree with most of it, But what i'm trying to gauge is what affect it has on resale.


Mine's a keeper, so I'm not too fussed at resale. At the end of the day, the car depreciates hard and by the time it steadies in the 20-30K bracket, I think a lot of cars will have light tune mods. and when it drops below 20K, who cares? It's lost the lion's share of the money. :smokin: But I hear what you're saying. I think its worth saying that those in the market for an improved car will see a ready-available tune as a positive.

The way I look at it we only live once. I only wish I did it sooner. The transformation is remarkable; plus I was looking for a rortier sound from the Mondeo exhaust note and the easy lump of power and torque that comes with a proper sports exhaust was a fab bonus. With the extra torque, it tends to keep revs down too so potentially less wear, imho, not more. :squintdan

Aftermarket tunes common on many four-five year old turbo cars, diesel or petrol. So maybe general opinion becoming more relaxed. 



gaz41uk said:


> When i was buying my car one of the first question i asked was had it been tracked/modded and if yes i walk away without thinking.


 I think a test-drive soon alleviates doubts!!! Especially when you then compare to a standard car. There is little comparison, they are snails. :flame:



gaz41uk said:


> I think 80/90% of people maybe more would dread to think they were buying a car that had been tracked even knowing that's what he car is made for.


They need to break their cherry... once done, they'll never look back! 



gaz41uk said:


> unless you want the car to go faster and work harder why have it tuned, Thats the way i look at it and i think a lot of other people see it the same.


Because, it's fun and very cost-effective way of enjoying MY12 performance or better with essentailly the same mechanicals on a MY09/10/11. :clap: 
After all a reflash to a power output to an MY12 is pretty much what Nissan did to the MY09. 

In a nutshell, more smiles per mile :chuckle:


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

yes, as long as it not been tracked.

If tracked depends on the condition of the car.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Aerodramatics said:


> Mine's a keeper, so I'm not too fussed at resale. At the end of the day, the car depreciates hard and by the time it steadies in the 20-30K bracket, I think a lot of cars will have light tune mods. and when it drops below 20K, who cares? It's lost the lion's share of the money. :smokin: But I hear what you're saying. I think its worth saying that those in the market for an improved car will see a ready-available tune as a positive.
> 
> The way I look at it we only live once. I only wish I did it sooner. The transformation is remarkable; plus I was looking for a rortier sound from the Mondeo exhaust note and the easy lump of power and torque that comes with a proper sports exhaust was a fab bonus. With the extra torque, it tends to keep revs down too so potentially less wear, imho, not more. :squintdan
> 
> ...


Hey my cars no snail  . I will be having light mods myself and totally agree about exhaust, But i will just be having a y pipe and at most stage 2. i'm just hoping i don't get the bug or i can see the wife leaving me having spent all our money on mods. ........But wait i still have the GTR


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

If a spend all our money on mods and the wife leaves me .What do i do.............I know

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/12/Nissan-GT-R-Hump.gif

:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Stevie76 said:


> Yes can see that the ecu has been flashed but not what it was flashed too e.g boost levels. That needs Japan reading vdc data.
> 
> I ticked wrong box there....I would buy a modified car so long as the car was modified by a respected tuner, was in excellent condition and did not have a hard track life. Thus far I have modified with bolt ons that can all be removed which I would likely do at sale time, if that sad day ever comes, to sell the parts on separately as many others have said you just loose the money invested if you leave it all on the car. Different story if you go for turbo upgrades etc etc.


Trust me Nissan can see the exact mileage the car was flashed, what level it was tuned to (boost etc), when it was then reflashed, and when the map was taken on and off...this is checked in the UK...the level of data capture on these cars is amazingly detailed!


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

Henry 145 said:


> Trust me Nissan can see the exact mileage the car was flashed, what level it was tuned to (boost etc), when it was then reflashed, and when the map was taken on and off...this is checked in the UK...the level of data capture on these cars is amazingly detailed!


I am assuming that any ECU interference - no matter how small - results in an immediate nullification of the warranty?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

New Reg said:


> I am assuming that any ECU interference - no matter how small - results in an immediate nullification of the warranty?


Nope.

Just had bell housing and turbo coolant pipe replaced under warranty and my GTR has been remapped, new intakes, full exhaust, for over 2 years. that meant engine out and a fair few hours of HPC time.
Nissan have been very fair by agreeing to fix 2 things which are manufacturing defects when they could have played hardball and denied my warranty.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

I got told by the HPC as long as the fault is not caused by the mod, That there would not be a problem with warranty.


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

charles charlie said:


> Nope.
> 
> Just had bell housing and turbo coolant pipe replaced under warranty and my GTR has been remapped, new intakes, full exhaust, for over 2 years. that meant engine out and a fair few hours of HPC time.
> Nissan have been very fair by agreeing to fix 2 things which are manufacturing defects when they could have played hardball and denied my warranty.


Wow, that is interesting to know. I was planning on having a Y pipe fitted but I understand that the car will be running too rich without a remap as well - therefore, if I have the Y pipe done it seems wise and, lets face it, pretty olbigatory to have the remap done to get the car running as it should but also to unleash a few extra ponies. Knowing that the warranty will likely be unaffected is nice to know. Obviosuly, I realise that each individual situation can only be judged on its own merit but your story still offers a lot of reassurance!


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

New Reg said:


> Wow, that is interesting to know. I was planning on having a Y pipe fitted but I understand that the car will be running too rich without a remap as well - therefore, if I have the Y pipe done it seems wise and, lets face it, pretty olbigatory to have the remap done to get the car running as it should but also to unleash a few extra ponies. Knowing that the warranty will likely be unaffected is nice to know. Obviosuly, I realise that each individual situation can only be judged on its own merit but your story still offers a lot of reassurance!


Nissan will replace parts if the failure is caused by a Nissan defect...if the car fails and it can be shown to be the map then they the warranty is no longer in place for that issue and the cost of that is to be paid by the customer...tread very carefully, my advice is if the car goes bang and it Nissan can prove that it was not their fault then you will be left with a very expensive bill...this is happening to a number of Nissan GTR owners and this is fact not scare mongering...the GTR is awesome standard and also modified but the moment you change a standard part you are at risk of no longer having a warranty...its a real grey area with HPC's and to be honest they are stuck in the middle and have a tough job to satisfy customers who want to modify.

A car which has been remapped and put back to stock has in effect it's warranty switched back on...and an HPC could sell the car with the benefits of the warranty as long as Nissan has checked and is ok with readouts...however if a map or other part caused the car to fail then Nissan will walk away...indeed a recent car that was standard and went bang on track has not had its warranty honoured as the car was on track and I understand not had the pre checks done by an HPC.

They are great cars and some great companies in the UK tuning them but tread carefully


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Henry 145 said:


> Nissan will replace parts if the failure is caused by a Nissan defect...if the car fails and it can be shown to be the map then they the warranty is no longer in place for that issue and the cost of that is to be paid by the customer...tread very carefully, my advice is if the car goes bang and it Nissan can prove that it was not their fault then you will be left with a very expensive bill...this is happening to a number of Nissan GTR owners and this is fact not scare mongering...the GTR is awesome standard and also modified but the moment you change a standard part you are at risk of no longer having a warranty...its a real grey area with HPC's and to be honest they are stuck in the middle and have a tough job to satisfy customers who want to modify.
> 
> A car which has been remapped and put back to stock has in effect it's warranty switched back on...and an HPC could sell the car with the benefits of the warranty as long as Nissan has checked and is ok with readouts...however if a map or other part caused the car to fail then Nissan will walk away...indeed a recent car that was standard and went bang on track has not had its warranty honoured as the car was on track and I understand not had the pre checks done by an HPC.
> 
> They are great cars and some great companies in the UK tuning them but tread carefully


In the handover doc there's a section on reinstatement of warranty. If the boost has been taken past xx PSI they may require the engine and or gearbox to be replaced before the warranty becomes effective again. For example:

Modification of the engine control system

If the boost pressure of the turbo charger system has been increased from the standard (original) range to:

- less than 10Kpa (1.45 PSI), only the modified parts should be replaced, and other parts do not need to be replaced.

(Presume the above means remove Cobb or ECUTEK remap and warranty is re-instated if you increased boost by no more than 1.45 PSI)

- within 10Kpa and 30Kpa (1.45 to 4.35 PSI), the engine assembly should be replaced
- more than 30Kpa (4.35 PSI), the engine assembly, transmission and driveshaft should be replaced

It goes on to say:

When the increased boost pressure is less than 10Kpa (1.45 PSI), only the modified parts should be replaced at the owners cost. The boost pressure is within the acceptable range and there could be a change depending on parts, vehicles, temperature etc. However, if the increased boost pressure is more than 10Kpa (1.45 PSI), this change is considered on purpose and all the parts replacement should be performed at the owners cost. The increase if the boost pressure will cause damage to the engine unit, such as pistons or valves in the engine control system.

That’s from the horses mouth, so more than 1.45 PSI extra boost and they could ask for the engine to be replaced before honouring the warranty again.

Anders


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

charles charlie said:


> Nope.
> 
> Just had bell housing and turbo coolant pipe replaced under warranty and my GTR has been remapped, new intakes, full exhaust, for over 2 years. that meant engine out and a fair few hours of HPC time.
> Nissan have been very fair by agreeing to fix 2 things which are manufacturing defects when they could have played hardball and denied my warranty.


+1! :thumbsup: Snap! Cobb & EcuTek.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Anders_R35 said:


> In the handover doc there's a section on reinstatement of warranty. If the boost has been taken past xx PSI they may require the engine and or gearbox to be replaced before the warranty becomes effective again. For example:
> 
> Modification of the engine control system
> 
> ...


For a new Nissan supplied engine that is £40k plus fitting!


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Henry 145 said:


> Nissan will replace parts if the failure is caused by a Nissan defect...if the car fails and it can be shown to be the map then they the warranty is no longer in place for that issue and the cost of that is to be paid by the customer...


Yup. All warranties cover original defects. As does the Sale of Goods act.



Henry 145 said:


> ...indeed a recent car that was standard and went bang on track has not had its warranty honoured as the car was on track and I understand not had the pre checks done by an HPC.


Lol.  Have you seen the pre-checks. Oh dear  Sounds like a case of not fit for the purpose described at the time sale and not of satisfactory durability to me.



Henry 145 said:


> They are great cars and some great companies in the UK tuning them but tread carefully


I think it's a matter of reasonableness. If modifications are the cause of the failure, then it's the fault of the owner. If they are not, then Nissan are fairly liable. To honest, the cars are proving themselves to be pretty good, all things considered.

If summat ever went bang, then a very good rebuild from a reputable tuner would be a very tempting choice rather than using a HPC to build a car back to standard.

Just think. Forge/Cossie uprated internals, bigger turbos, toughened box, the works!

All for the price of a new Nissan Note!


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Aerodramatics said:


> Yup. All warranties cover original defects. As does the Sale of Goods act.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a good market for quality companies like SVM and Litchfield to as you say build new engines or repair or replace


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

To me, prices like £40K for a new engine (lol!!!) or £10K for a GR6, simply mean HPCs won't see any rebuild work ever. Such high replacement parts and labour retail prices are effectively saying: "We don't want your business!" to me. 

The two choices apparent to me are either a rebuild to a desired specification through a reputable tuner or sell the car for spare parts break-up and buy summat else, perhaps another GT-R.

Of course, when the cars hit their third birthday the warranty is over. If owners intend to buy and sell within the warranty, then a standard car through-out is the best (if boring) and tortoise-slow choice.


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Aerodramatics said:


> To me, prices like £40K for a new engine (lol!!!) or £10K for a GR6, simply mean HPCs won't see any rebuild work ever. Such high replacement parts and labour retail prices are effectively saying: "We don't want your business!" to me.
> 
> The two choices apparent to me are either a rebuild to a desired specification through a reputable tuner or sell the car for spare parts break-up and buy summat else, perhaps another GT-R.
> 
> Of course, when the cars hit their third birthday the warranty is over. If owners intend to buy and sell within the warranty, then a standard car through-out is the best (if boring) and tortoise-slow choice.


Exactly that is why HPC's are sending cars out to the specialists rather than installing new engines themselves...a good business for Iain and KK


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Henry 145 said:


> Exactly that is why HPC's are sending cars out to the specialists rather than installing new engines themselves...a good business for Iain and KK


as far as i am aware SVM is the only company this has happend with?
(several times now)
but yes HPC high prices do make us "a back on the road option" kk


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

SVM said:


> as far as i am aware SVM is the only company this has happend with?
> (several times now)
> but yes HPC high prices do make us "a back on the road option" kk


I believe you are with engines Kev...I had heard that Iain was doing some gearboxes for NMGB


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Whenever we have been asked to work with a Manufacturer we have had to sign NDAs so we can't talk about it :nervous: We have done lots of jobs for dealers though 

Regards

Iain


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

I still believe if someone really genuinely likes the GTR, they will buy the best standard one their money can buy.

IMO, most modified cars exist to extend one's manhood, papering over the cracks of insecurity and fear of losing in a traffic light GP, or to get one over someone else, it has nothing to do with car or GTR enthusiasm. It is just a competition.


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## Jaw_F430 (Apr 14, 2009)

charles charlie said:


> Just had bell housing replaced under warranty.


Starting to feel left out now as most 09 GTRs seem to have had the bell housing replaced and mine hasn't :runaway:

I'll get Iain to check it when I'm down on Wednesday as I will need to get in the dealers before July if there are any issues that require a warranty fix:clap:

What mileage is your car on Andy?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Sidious said:


> I still believe if someone really genuinely likes the GTR, they will buy the best standard one their money can buy.
> 
> IMO, most modified cars exist to extend one's manhood, papering over the cracks of insecurity and fear of losing in a traffic light GP, or to get one over someone else, it has nothing to do with car or GTR enthusiasm. It is just a competition.


Er, are you sure you're in the right forum? :runaway:


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

David.Yu said:


> Er, are you sure you're in the right forum? :runaway:


I think so. The last time I checked, this was a GTR owners forum - not soley a place to discuss who has the most BHP and the quickest 30-130 MPH acceleration time contest.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Sidious said:


> I think so. The last time I checked, this was a GTR owners forum - not soley a place to discuss who has the most BHP and the quickest 30-130 MPH acceleration time contest.


So everyone on here who has a modded GT-R is not a GT-R or car enthusiast?


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Sidious said:


> I still believe if someone really genuinely likes the GTR, they will buy the best standard one their money can buy.
> 
> IMO, most modified cars exist to extend one's manhood, papering over the cracks of insecurity and fear of losing in a traffic light GP, or to get one over someone else, it has nothing to do with car or GTR enthusiasm. It is just a competition.


So on the basis of your post in the following thread you felt you were too small and due to insecurity, and a need to beat someone at a traffic light GP, you thought an HKS exhaust would solve your problems :chuckle:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/156500-quiet-exhaust-thread-2.html:D


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## Eric Laybourne (Apr 27, 2009)

A standard umodded car which had been tracked - used but not abused....


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Sidious said:


> I still believe if someone really genuinely likes the GTR, they will buy the best standard one their money can buy.
> 
> IMO, most modified cars exist to extend one's manhood, papering over the cracks of insecurity and fear of losing in a traffic light GP, or to get one over someone else, it has nothing to do with car or GTR enthusiasm. It is just a competition.


Nah... you've got that wrong. It's about wanting a change and a change for the better. After two years of the same car I was getting bored. :runaway:

I feel the need, the need for speed

When you can go quicker for pocket money, why not? :clap:

I've been in some 600bhp R33s which are almost as quick as a standard R35. :thumbsup:

But fair enough, if you drive a standard 276bhp R33, I take my hat off to you. Not into 80s classic cars myself. They are too dated. I'd prefer to drive a 350Z, it's a better drive in every way and got the rwd instant fun-factor.


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Stevie76 said:


> So on the basis of your post in the following thread you felt you were too small and due to insecurity, and a need to beat someone at a traffic light GP, you thought an HKS exhaust would solve your problems :chuckle:
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/156500-quiet-exhaust-thread-2.html:D


What basis? I got that exhaust to replace the shitty jap can system that drones and annoys all my neighbours.


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Aerodramatics said:


> Nah... you've got that wrong. It's about wanting a change and a change for the better. After two years of the same car I was getting bored. :runaway:
> 
> I feel the need, the need for speed
> 
> ...


You see, this post just kind of sums up my previous point I made. 

You have:

1) bragged about driving 600 bhp R33s 
2) Dismissed them for not being as quick as your once stock R35
3) You felt the need to tell me that you prefer RWD cars over 80's classic cars.

What does this tell us? Who are you trying to one up? Do I think your opinion on these cars is worth anything to me or have any usefulness in life? No.

Cars consist of hundreds of components and designed and put together by car makers who have a total understanding about how they actually feel and drive, only you and your willywaving chums cares about going faster than the other. FASTER is not better.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Someone has got a serious chip (not remap) on their shoulder... :chuckle:

Faster is not better? So why do you drive a GT-R and not a Micra then?
Why did you not source a stock exhaust rather than the aftermarket one you bought?

Do you seriously think you are talking to the majority of GT-R owners when you deride anyone who chooses to personalise and mod their car?
Tell us how many bog standard GT-Rs there are in this country versus modded ones.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Sidious said:


> FASTER is not better.


Oh yes it is!


Is it pantomime season yet?


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## OldBob (Oct 18, 2010)

I've got a small kn*b so needed stg2, were it smaller still I'd have considered stg3 or more. The trouble with having a kn*b though is that you always want something bigger/better.


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

David.Yu said:


> Someone has got a serious chip (not remap) on their shoulder... :chuckle:
> 
> Faster is not better? So why do you drive a GT-R and not a Micra then?
> Why did you not source a stock exhaust rather than the aftermarket one you bought?


Quite simple, the GT-R is enjoyable to drive everyday, nicer engine note, smoother power delivery, comfortable at long journeys, handles nicely and looks good to me. A Micra looks like a shopping car (because it is) and is only better in economy and its a bit easier to park. 

Stock exhaust is very expensive and prone to corrosion, I looked for a Nismo Weldina system which looks like the stock system but is discontinued, so I went for an affordable stainless steel jobby that didnt drone and is quiet. 

No rust, no noise. I dont care about the performance implications of it.



> Do you seriously think you are talking to the majority of GT-R owners when you deride anyone who chooses to personalise and mod their car?
> Tell us how many bog standard GT-Rs there are in this country versus modded ones.


Alot of people buy cars just because they can make them go faster. That's their money and their choice, everyone has their own taste and opinion.

And it is in *my* opinion that many of these people are just not really interested in the car, they are not genuine enthuasts, they have no interest in Nissan's alternative philosophy and approach to performance cars compared to the poncy western european elite, they deprive themselves by not appreciating the finer details and overal driving experience - it's all about the POWER and 1/4 mile M8.  

All such people just want is to spank anyone they see on the street and expect praise to feed their growning egos, funny alot of them get all hot under the collar when they read that someone like me isn't interested in their shitty modifications.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Sidious said:


> You see, this post just kind of sums up my previous point I made...
> 
> ...What does this tell us? Who are you trying to one up? Do I think your opinion on these cars is worth anything to me or have any usefulness in life? No.
> 
> Cars consist of hundreds of components and designed and put together by car makers who have a total understanding about how they actually feel and drive, only you and your willywaving chums cares about going faster than the other. FASTER is not better.


:bawling: :GrowUp:

Lol. :chuckle: Calm down Sid, that's a bit vicious! I was only pulling yer chain 

To me, you appear to have started off with your own prejudice and then seek self-confirming interpretations. :runaway: :flame: Chill. :smokin:

It takes all sorts. Some peeps like tuned cars. All I can say is try a standard GT-R and a nicely tuned one and then honestly tell me which one you prefer. Can't say fairer than that. :thumbsup: 

Merry Crimbo! :squintdan


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

+1
KK


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Aerodramatics said:


> :bawling: :GrowUp:
> 
> Lol. :chuckle: Calm down Sid, that's a bit vicious! I was only pulling yer chain
> 
> ...


I dont know how people are turning this into a stock vs tuned debate with me. I think I will need to re-iterate my point: What to buy? Stock or modified?

If you are a true GTR enthuast, get a stock one - enjoy the car as Nissan intended. I'll expand that if you dont like it, chop it off and get another car or tweak to taste (but tweaking doesnt always equate to better unless you know what you are doing).


Merry Xmas.


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## kociek (Jul 18, 2011)

Sidious said:


> I dont know how people are turning this into a stock vs tuned debate with me. I think I will need to re-iterate my point: What to buy? Stock or modified?
> 
> If you are a true GTR enthuast, get a stock one - enjoy the car as Nissan intended. I'll expand that if you dont like it, chop it off and get another car or tweak to taste (but tweaking doesnt always equate to better unless you know what you are doing).
> 
> ...


is pretty much what you said 
my mate both a r34-gtr stock and pretty soon i did realized i wanted more so he did mod the car for 720hp
either way depends also how much you can afford you always can down size


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## GTR ally (May 19, 2008)

OldBob said:


> I've got a small kn*b so needed stg2, were it smaller still I'd have considered stg3 or more. The trouble with having a kn*b though is that you always want something bigger/better.


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## ANDYR35 (Sep 1, 2008)

Sidious said:


> someone like me isn't interested in their shitty modifications.




Go back to the 33 section then, for someone who is "not interested" you seem to be spouting alot!

There are alot of people who keep their cars very stock for a good amount of time but like anything else they get used to them and fancy a change, there is nothing else out there that touches the GT-R for it's innovation and bang for buck...so why even bother looking when you can lightly mod it and transform the car that you love.
Mine has been modded lightly but spends the majority of it's life in a garage under a cover but when it does come out I like to get out on some of my favourite quiet roads and stretch its legs......and no, that does not involve the local carparks or traffic lights.

You prefer stock, comfort and quietness........more power to you (or in your case maybe not as you are against power  )


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

A first class argument again. Nice.

I won't be selling my GTR. Ever.

And I won't be "modding" (knackering drivability), coz I'd probably kill myself.
(that's how short my dick is) lol


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

ANDYR35 said:


> Go back to the 33 section then, for someone who is "not interested" you seem to be spouting alot!


Ok Andy, if I read this correctly, this forum covers the R35 GTR as a whole - it's not a carbon car part stick-on and Y-Pipe pageant where everyone must vvank each other off with false praise.

We are all entitled to express our own subjectivism on a topic - as you are entitled to decide to stick-on ugly/pretty looking parts and talk about Y-pipes.




ANDYR35 said:


> There are alot of people who keep their cars very stock for a good amount of time but like anything else they get used to them and fancy a change, there is nothing else out there that touches the GT-R for it's innovation and bang for buck...so why even bother looking when you can lightly mod it and transform the car that you love.


Yes you are correct there, I think it is best that if you are a real enthuast, it is most beneficial to enjoy cars as they were intended by people like Mizuno San who know a heck alot more about cars than all of us put together, and you have the freedom to modify in future to your own tastes or when aftermarket parts are of high enough standard - the main problem is the quality and performance of many Nissan OEM parts are still superior to the guff alot of people replace them with. An example I already seen is people taking out the stock Bilstein dampers for certain aftermarket coilovers that do not damp properly on any car.





ANDYR35 said:


> You prefer stock, comfort and quietness........more power to you (or in your case maybe not as you are against power  )


Your statement reeks of sarcasm, but that is fine with me. I am interested in how a car drives on day to day basis, (if a performance car - how much of it can be used in the real world), how it looks and how it feels - the level of comfort and power etc etc is not something you can just put a number to. 

The strange thing is many are actually quite happy driving around in a stock GTR, yet brainwashed or bullied by big mouth'ed attention seeking types into following them in the never ending road of pointless modifications and one-upmanship - your sarcy comments is a perfect example of that attempted brainwashing.


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## kociek (Jul 18, 2011)

Sidious said:


> Ok Andy, if I read this correctly, this forum covers the R35 GTR as a whole - it's not a carbon car part stick-on and Y-Pipe pageant where everyone must vvank each other off with false praise.
> 
> We are all entitled to express our own subjectivism on a topic - as you are entitled to decide to stick-on ugly/pretty looking parts and talk about Y-pipes.
> 
> ...



excellent replay!:thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Sid, we have converted a large amount of cars, and i can honestly say you do not know 
what your missing...you only live once and the experience lasts a life time
all i ask if you get a chance drive a 650/750R , then post your thoughts
...i will end by stating if your in love with your gtr now, you will be besotted 10x over once tweaked in a sensible way, have you ever had anyone state they preferred their std gtr after these mods, ?....take care and enjoy xmas kk


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

SVM said:


> Sid, we have converted a large amount of cars, and i can honestly say you do not know
> what your missing...you only live once and the experience lasts a life time
> all i ask if you get a chance drive a 650/750R , then post your thoughts
> ...i will end by stating if your in love with your gtr now, you will be besotted 10x over once tweaked in a sensible way, have you ever had anyone state they preferred their std gtr after these mods, ?....take care and enjoy xmas kk


Kev, nothing you (or any UK tuner) have anything of interest to me. You are in the business of re-selling aftermarket parts and re-building engines that have no use for the road, and only good high speed driving on runways so it can be posted on youtube for 14 year old boys to watch.

I'll stick to driving cars that work properly on the road, thank you.


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Sidious said:


> Kev, nothing you (or any UK tuner) have anything of interest to me. You are in the business of re-selling aftermarket parts and re-building engines that have no use for the road, and only good high speed driving on runways so it can be posted on youtube for 14 year old boys to watch.
> 
> I'll stick to driving cars that work properly on the road, thank you.


your understanding "cant be used on the road" or "dont work properly" is not true imo and many other gtr owners, but hey if you don't try you will never know will you, your wrong!
it isn't about how big guys pockets or private parts are , (i hope)
imo its about how *good* the cars are,yes you have your opinion but keep an open mind, until you have a drive yourself maybe? Maybe you have forgotten most of these guys have been in your position until they take a drive always Guys say "Nissan" should of done this, if they were so terrible ,why would owners give so much praise and appreciation?
i know i wont change your mind but can i ask pls don't ridicule the conversions
as you have no experience of such, and all these GTRs are their owners pride and Joy,so some respect to all, std and modded :thumbsup: 
kk.


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## ANDYR35 (Sep 1, 2008)

Sidious said:


> We are all entitled to express our own subjectivism on a topic - as you are entitled to decide to stick-on ugly/pretty looking parts and talk about Y-pipes.
> 
> 
> *So exactly what uglypretty parts have I stuck on my car???.....Oh yeah you don't know but just decide to "assume".....kinda sums up your whole argument really........assumption!*
> ...


P.S - Kociek.......Think you meant REPLY!!


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

SVM said:


> your understanding "cant be used on the road" or "dont work properly" is not true imo and many other gtr owners, but hey if you don't try you will never know will you, your wrong!
> it isn't about how big guys pockets or private parts are , (i hope)
> imo its about how *good* the cars are,yes you have your opinion but keep an open mind, until you have a drive yourself maybe? Maybe you have forgotten most of these guys have been in your position until they take a drive always Guys say "Nissan" should of done this, if they were so terrible ,why would owners give so much praise and appreciation?
> i know i wont change your mind but can i ask pls don't ridicule the conversions
> ...


Have to say SVM are gentlemen and first class in their field at modifications and service...we are lucky to have SVM and Litchfield in the UK


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Henry 145 said:


> Have to say SVM are gentlemen and first class in their field at modifications and service...we are lucky to have SVM and Litchfield in the UK


+1...every penny I have spent on my car with SVM I would do again in a heartbeat...been first class and transformed my car from an aminal to a complete beast:clap:


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

1) I don't buy new cars. The depreciation hit is one I'd rather someone else take.
2) I tune cars; it's an essential aspect of ownership for me. It doesn't feel "mine" until I've done something original to it that no one else has.

That being said, cars in extreme states of tune may not be so attractive - the cars are pushed far past their original power rating, and then there are lots of question marks. It could be rock solid, it could be on the verge of imploding with shoddy workmanship. There's no way to tell. My R32 engine is built pretty well; 30,000km and it's still tight as a drum. But if I say that to a potential buyer, they have nothing except my word.

But when I landed in the States in August and went shopping for an RS6, I had a laundry list of mods I had researched and wanted done. The car I bought had all of those mods recently done, except for the suspension, which is still stock (I have lowering springs but have yet to install them). I've still tweaked the car a bit - upped the ECU flash to a Stage 2, which is as far as you want to go with the stock engine and transmission. It's little things though - USDM Audi RS6s have the battery sitting in the boot. I got rid of that by tucking two small Odyssey motorcycle batteries in the storage bins and run them in parallel. So I get my entire boot space, plus get to keep my spare tire (Euro RS6s have the battery in the spare tire well, and no spare tire).

Anyways, for the RS6, I was *specifically* looking for a car with a lot of modifications, because I'd be doing them anyways. But most RS6s do not see significant mods - most of it is transmission, suspension, and simply reflashing the ECU and TCU. Power goes up relatively modestly, about 25-35%.

It's the 50-200% power increases on GT-Rs that make one begin to question the reliability of the car. If I were buying an R35, I'd want one that had been reflashed and already had the exhaust done.

What I find silly are Skyline GT-Rs with lots of mods...but an N1 oil pump. Really? You spend a fortune to build a 600+bhp Skyline, and you're too cheap to put in a Tomei? There are literally just a handful of federally legal Skylines in America, and there's one for sale right now...T78, the whole nine yards...and a stupid N1 pump and stock internals. I'd want to see upgraded pistons and a real oil pump if I am going to lay money down on such a car.


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## backout (Jul 7, 2011)

Nigel-Power said:


> It's the overall condition of the car and the mileage I'd be paying more attention to.
> 
> I prefer to buy one with mods, that works out cheaper for anyone like myself who plans to heavily mod the car anyway. So having a few things already done to the car would be an advantage and will save you £££s
> 
> But the drawback is that mod'ed cars are bound to undergo harsh driving, so do your inspection right before you commit to buying.


Yea as if thats not ur plan? As long as the owner is sound and the car well maintained then it should be fine.

Obviously this is a personal opinion, if you are planning to mod the car anyway and said car has the mods you want them its a good deal.
A car with to many mods would be a turn off and a car with too few would be respectively more expensive.

You never get money back for mods, the next owner just gains, but risks the fact that the car may not have been treated well.


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## backout (Jul 7, 2011)

gaz41uk said:


> When i was buying my car one of the first question i asked was had it been tracked/modded and if yes i walk away without thinking.
> 
> I think 80/90% of people maybe more would dread to think they were buying a car that had been tracked even knowing that's what he car is made for.


I take it you dont plan on tracking/driving the car to its full potential then...?

Personally I bought my car to drive it, so while I'd prefer to buy a car that had never been tracked it doesnt bother me because I'll be doing it anyway.

I'd be more worried if the oil hadn't been changed frequently enough or if it was driven hard from cold or driven hard over pot holes continuously, this would damage the car more.. imo



EDIT: oooooops.... looks like I was a bit late on this one.... interesting conversation tho :squintdan:squintdan


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Track should be ok. Need some cooling time though after a few laps. Any opinions on circlip upgrades?

It must be reliable and track/daily usable to modify otherwise I would say no.


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

enshiu said:


> Track should be ok. Need some cooling time though after a few laps. Any opinions on circlip upgrades?
> 
> It must be reliable and track/daily usable to modify otherwise I would say no.


The standard circlips are fine, unless you intend doing drag strip starts on sticky slick tyres. Axle tramp is your enemy!


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

May I ask what is an axle tramp?

So for 1/4 mile launch circlips with standard Bridgestones?


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## fozi.g (Sep 3, 2007)

Mod mod and then mod some more. It all depends on how deep your pockets are. Don't expect to get back what you paid to get the mods done come sale time but be happy knowing that you done them for your own entertainment and I'm sure big or small mod....cheap or expensive they all made you grin like a Cheshire cat!!!!


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> The standard circlips are fine, unless you intend doing drag strip starts on sticky slick tyres. Axle tramp is your enemy!


Not true, bumping up and down curbs on tracks can also cause the 4wd output shafts cir clips to fail
"wheel crash"

even had oem std cars fail, allthough driven hard and launched

have you seen and actually seen them in real life? they can be bent by your fingers poor design imo and advise changing when gtrs are modded

We will see more im 100% sure

kk


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## golferadmin7610 (Sep 9, 2010)

*Take out all the mods.*



gaz41uk said:


> When the nice weather comes along i will be adding a few mods to my car, But as a person who will only buy a standed car will the mods affect the resale of the car. I was thinking were people stand on buying modded cars.


I keep all the stock parts. When time comes for selling I'll put them back, sell the car and parts in different channel.

Almost all 2nd hand car buyers bitch about mods and try to pay nothing or less. 

I am not going to give away for nothing on my investment over big brake kit, 600hp tune, Litchfield custom coilovers, and forged 2 pieces rims. They cost me 30,000 dollars and I am sure I can resale for at least 60%-70% from classified.

And I don't need to hear bitching stuff like, "yeah but your car has modification..." 

Buy or fOck off. :thumbsup:

Which owner does not mod a R.

Sam


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Sidious said:


> Kev, nothing you (or any UK tuner) have anything of interest to me. You are in the business of re-selling aftermarket parts and re-building engines that have no use for the road, and only good high speed driving on runways so it can be posted on youtube for 14 year old boys to watch.
> 
> I'll stick to driving cars that work properly on the road, thank you.


Then you should have seen and took a ride in JM Imports full street legal car with 900bhp+.................... 

Not all tuned cars are not good for the road..................

Sorry to trample you but, I love this car and modding this car is like the same as a R32-R34 GTR is the bug and waiting on you to be modded with street capabilities.........



golferadmin7610 said:


> I keep all the stock parts. When time comes for selling I'll put them back, sell the car and parts in different channel.
> 
> Almost all 2nd hand car buyers bitch about mods and try to pay nothing or less.
> 
> ...


yea correct.......... 

Nissan or nothing................ 

I guess Sidious is just ............ or ................... about our cars.............


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

What's with, Guys and Peeps in thinking Tuned cars are not good Road cars? imo SVM and there customer's are very proud of there conversions, we are not all set about impressing You tube fans , we impress well mannered
gentlemen ,(drivers and Tuners )who know a thing or too imo
Pls keep the comments to yourself until you have experienced the svm conversions

ps Enshiu, There is more than one car ! Many more !
kk


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> What's with, Guys and Peeps in thinking Tuned cars are not good Road cars? imo SVM and there customer's are very proud of there conversions, we are not all set about impressing You tube fans , we impress well mannered
> gentlemen ,(drivers and Tuners )who know a thing or too imo
> Pls keep the comments to yourself until you have experienced the svm conversions
> 
> ...


Of course there are more cars than just JMs car. Every one can mod you like and it's up to the owner to choose street legal or not......

As for the buying a modded car or not I would say ask KK/SVM,JM, Litchfield, Abbey etc. what to check..........


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## Wildrover (Dec 16, 2008)

Prefer a Standard car. Then lightly modify if I felt the need. Then remove the components before resale.


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