# EFR 6758s 1/4 mile and power Updated - New Dyno



## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Gents,
Who is running the efr6758s ,
I was after a bit of info, max bhp and torque levels and what's the 1/4 time and 100 to 200 if you have it.

I have a semi-built box so I need cap the torque , just wondering how much of the efrs I am loosing by not having a built box.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Litchfields Probably have the most experience here, I’d give them a ring.


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## WarrenA (Jun 2, 2016)

I think you know mine
990 bhp 764ft/lb
9.9 with only two go’s
4.3 100/200


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

What gearbox mods do you have?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> What gearbox mods do you have?


1st gear shaft, clutches, extrem clips ect. Warren has fully built. I didn't know Warren managed a 9.9 😳


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Are you both using std exhaust housings?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> Are you both using std exhaust housings?


GTR manifolds.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

The efr's seem to work well in them unlike the g frame garrets


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## HellsSalesman (Apr 12, 2017)

WarrenA said:


> I think you know mine
> 990 bhp 764ft/lb
> 9.9 with only two go’s
> 4.3 100/200


hey do you mind to share: stock cams? pump fuel? stock frame turbo or litchfield manifold? what boost are you running?


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

There using stock frame turbo’s


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Derek,

I have the Turbos 1 up from the 6758's, so not exactly the answer you are looking for

Here is my Dyno sheet on EFR 7163's that have been modified with a 76mm compressor wheel and cover.

The Dyno sheet shows Wheel HP


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Hugh Keir said:


> Derek,
> 
> I have the Turbos 1 up from the 6758's, so not exactly the answer you are looking for
> 
> ...


You have a limit on the map, fuel?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

UKPAISLEY said:


> You have a limit on the map, fuel?


No Limits on MAP or fuel Derek,

The boost used on the Dyno was 2bar.

I have a PPG V3 gearset in my car, so can run any torque that the Turbos can deliver.

I run a 12 injector setup with ID1050 primary and have changed to ID 1700 secondaries from ID2000 since the dyno run.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Hugh Keir said:


> No Limits on MAP or fuel Derek,
> 
> The boost used on the Dyno was 2bar.
> 
> ...


I think the EFR's don't like to go past 2 bar. On Tuesday I will see where mine will be.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

If you are on pump, 2 bar is more than plenty Derek.

With E85 the 7163/7663 will produce slightly more power above 2 bar, but I leave the boost as is, it feels fast enough at that boost level.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

HellsSalesman said:


> hey do you mind to share: stock cams? pump fuel? stock frame turbo or litchfield manifold? what boost are you running?


fuel pumps , walbro 450s , Warren hand I both have Jun 264 cams.Boost wide I am not sure what Warren is running, I am at 1.6 Bar until next map, but most stop at 2Bar on these turbos. We both have race intercoolers.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Are the 7163 a hybrid version as I thought 7064 was bw size?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Skint said:


> Are the 7163 a hybrid version as I thought 7064 was bw size?


7163 is one of the standard EFR Turbo sizes Richard.

I fitted an SX-E compressor cover along with a 76mm compressor wheel, this changes the Turbo into a 7663.

Here they are being mocked up on the car.


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## Black_Supra (Aug 18, 2015)

Hugh Keir said:


> No Limits on MAP or fuel Derek,
> 
> The boost used on the Dyno was 2bar.
> 
> ...


Nice setup mate!

I got a PPG V1 Gearset. I head it is really bad, you know more about it? How can i see if it`s a V1, V2 or V3? Are there different part numbers / codes on the gears?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Only thing I know about the earlier gearsets is that they are noisier than the PPG V3.

My gearbox has been built and in my car for quite a number of years now, so I doubt that you would find a PPG V1 or V2 for sale anywhere.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Has anybody hit a 1000 on 6758’S


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

I might go for G30-900 turbos later in the year, so would have my EFR 7663's available, but not decided yet.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Do you think the g series are better than the efr's? I am not impressed with them.


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## adz87kc (Jan 8, 2018)

Skint said:


> Do you think the g series are better than the efr's? I am not impressed with them.


I should have a Dyno graph this week with G30-770.
Will add it to my project thread and you can have a look and compare with EFR graphs.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Are you on full frame or std manifolds?


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## PaulcbaGtr (Apr 11, 2020)

Hugh Keir said:


> I might go for G30-900 turbos later in the year, so would have my EFR 7663's available, but not decided yet.


Iv heard great things about these turbos.
How much are they mate ?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> Has anybody hit a 1000 on 6758’S


I have been told its the absolute Max on the 6758s, using supporting mods such as manifolds and cams.

The norm is the 900 to 950 range


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Skint said:


> Do you think the g series are better than the efr's? I am not impressed with them.


Comparing the compressor maps Richard, the G30-900 is more efficient at 77% and also has a larger high efficiency island compared to the EFR.

I have also seen a Dyno sheet that shows similar mid-range torque to my EFR set-up, but 150 BHP more power than I have at the top end of the rev range.

The compressor maps show the flow in lbs is quite different, so the question for me was over mid-range torque.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

adz87kc said:


> I should have a Dyno graph this week with G30-770.
> Will add it to my project thread and you can have a look and compare with EFR graphs.


That would be great, hopefully the G30-770 will deliver something near to the 770 BHP top line that they should be capable of.

Will check out your project thread to see.

Good luck.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

PaulcbaGtr said:


> Iv heard great things about these turbos.
> How much are they mate ?


Not checked the price of the G30-900's Paul.

Much of the cost of a Turbo upgrade is removing the engine to fit them, so the purchase price is only a part of the story.


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## adz87kc (Jan 8, 2018)

Hugh Keir said:


> That would be great, hopefully the G30-770 will deliver something near to the 770 BHP top line that they should be capable of.
> 
> Will check out your project thread to see.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks Hugh.

I'm running them way below what they can do though.
900hp until I get the box done but from my phone call yesterday, it was only at 1.22 bar of boost. Will be running cooler than most I'd expect.

Will post the graph once in hand


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

adz87kc said:


> Thanks Hugh.
> 
> I'm running them way below what they can do though.
> 900hp until I get the box done but from my phone call yesterday, it was only at 1.22 bar of boost. Will be running cooler than most I'd expect.
> ...


have you got a graph ?

Interested is you're torque curve in the low revs.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Hugh Keir said:


> No Limits on MAP or fuel Derek,
> 
> The boost used on the Dyno was 2bar.
> 
> ...


Monster Torque on that graph!!! You map this yourself right? Your 100-200 is sub 4 seconds as well right? 👏


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Reano said:


> Monster Torque on that graph!!! You map this yourself right? Your 100-200 is sub 4 seconds as well right? 👏


Not recorded a 100-200 time Reano, but would expect it to be around or just under 4 seconds.

The map was prepared by Romain on JM Imports Dyno, I do like to make adjustments to the Syvecs maps, but it is not materially changing the way that Romain has set the car up.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Ok cool. Dimitri thought my g30-770 was good and was good on standard manifold. I just chose to move to a bigger one due to an offer I had with SVM. My initial manifold setup looked like this









but swapped and sold mine at not much more cost to the ams carbon fibre manifold, while whole engine was out with another person that was doing theirs. Net extra was c3k to get the alpha/hulk in (See project page). Then some additional tuning with DimitrI. So between the two not that much material difference at my current power level. I just have more ‘potential’ with new manifold.


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## archan (Apr 25, 2019)

Skint said:


> Has anybody hit a 1000 on 6758’S


Well not 6758, but 6958s
I dyno'ed 1067 HP (crank) and 1252 Nm torque at 2.0 bar boost on E70. Tuner estimated 1080ish on E85.
Best 100-200 was 4,19s.
The car ran great. Highly recommended turbos for street use.

The guy who bought the car from me did 9,9s on his first 1/4 run with "heavy" Oz Superleggera 20" and crappy Michelin tires.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

archan said:


> Well not 6758, but 6958s
> I dyno'ed 1067 HP (crank) and 1252 Nm torque at 2.0 bar boost on E70. Tuner estimated 1080ish on E85.
> Best 100-200 was 4,19s.
> The car ran great. Highly recommended turbos for street use.
> ...


Good numbers archan.

Do you have a Dyno sheet for your car?


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## archan (Apr 25, 2019)

Yes ofc. I would say 900-950 WHP is max for these turbos, but as you can see they manage to break the 1000 crank HP (same as BHP?)
Here we go!


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Just an update and still tweaking the map, a good 920bhp was achieved @ 1.75 Bar. My torque level is capped at 680ish, but this is due to the gearbox. Approximate 100 to 200 is 4.85


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Good numbers and what is your gearbox state at moment? Stock is normally capped at c<640?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Reano said:


> Good numbers and what is your gearbox state at moment? Stock is normally capped at c<640?


1st gear upgrade, clutches, clips and solenoids. Could probably go more but the gearbox has been running higher torque before so being safe, well as safe as it gets lol


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

UKPAISLEY said:


> Just an update and still tweaking the map, a good 920bhp was achieved @ 1.75 Bar. My torque level is capped at 680ish, but this is due to the gearbox. Approximate 100 to 200 is 4.85


Would love to see your Dyno sheet Derek.

Particularly keen to see your Torque curve before the Torque is capped.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)




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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Does anybody have graphs with 6758efr’s on Srod manifolds and logs for a comparison?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> Does anybody have graphs with 6758efr’s on Srod manifolds and logs for a comparison?


I am not sure you would get a back to back test , its an expensive process most engine specs are different . Litchfieds may have something. I think its more heat control and obviously the efficiency in the native housing .


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## adz87kc (Jan 8, 2018)

UKPAISLEY said:


> have you got a graph ?
> 
> Interested is you're torque curve in the low revs.


@UKPAISLEY @Hugh Keir 

Attached a quick snap.
Note that torque is pulled back mid range to keep my (OEM) transmission in one piece until I save enough to build it.
Figures are at the wheels so ~ 910bhp and 658 ftlb @1.3 bar. Full boost ~4300rpm.

Should be plenty to be getting on with for now.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Interesting * adz87kc*

I noticed after I drew the lines on your graph that you had 1.3 bar boost at 4300.

I thought it only fair to judge the Turbo response against others while the car was boosting.











Looking at Derek's Graph, the power at the wheels is very similar to the power *adz87kc *has at the Hubs, so blindfold sitting in the passenger seat, it would be hard to tell them apart.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

very good and at a safe 1.3bar ;-)


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

I am at 1.35 Bar rising to 1.75 , again this is to protect the gearbox. However looking at the logs I have 1 bar at 3050RPM.
The torque is a little less than expected , I think this is the 264 cams reducing the low RPM efficiency. I have yet to perfect the map at the lower revs , up top its about there although the logs are showing a +5 deg Knock adjustment , so there is more to be had.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

I was going to say 1.35bar ;-).


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## adz87kc (Jan 8, 2018)

UKPAISLEY said:


> I am at 1.35 Bar rising to 1.75 , again this is to protect the gearbox. However looking at the logs I have 1 bar at 3050RPM.


That sounds a bit more like it. The 6758 are more like the size of the G25-660 I think so you would expect boost earlier than the turbos I'm running.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes the 6758s are a small turbo. There is a lot of interest to see what the G series is like as a comparison even more so against the G25-660 , I am a bit disappointed in the low end of my graph, but I hope to tune this out at a later date.

I am very pleased with the top end and what will be achieved in the mid range with the cam and turbo combination as soon as the gearbox upgrade is done.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Did you need to change cam from stock? That will give you more low end as its really rare you will be in the top end (maybe less than 5%). I would almost always optimise low end torque for even track and fast road. The transition and lack of lag is better


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Reano said:


> Did you need to change cam from stock? That will give you more low end as its really rare you will be in the top end (maybe less than 5%). I would almost always optimise low end torque for even track and fast road. The transition and lack of lag is better


I have JUN 264 inlet and exhaust, so it's a big change.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

OK as stock cams might be better low end?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Reano said:


> OK as stock cams might be better low end?


I would say much better, but the improvement is low to mid on the JUN cams, all depends on the turbos. I want the lower end so I may be a tad big on the cams. After doing some looking about the inlet cam is less duration on most manufactures of cams. JUN also have quite a high lift. I am expecting to get 600lbft at 3K at best


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

OK I still have standard cams on 1000+ bhp and low down torque and response is good but I do have the larger manifold.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

For me,I think on a road car std cams are often the best, you just seem to move the power further up the Rev range With aftermarket stuff.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Skint said:


> For me,I think on a road car std cams are often the best, you just seem to move the power further up the Rev range With aftermarket stuff.


Agreed. I dont feel the car slowing down top end either it just keeps going if I wanted to wind up boost, injectors, etc could go even more but happy with standard cams.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

You need to use the full rpm range on a road car very often so moving the power up the Rev range is not ideal for low end response. You have a car not far off 2 tonnes, with juice and jockey on board so you need to get it going from standstill.

If your into strip racing or track days then your going to be using the power in the upper rpm range so then a cam makes more sense.


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## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

Just catching up on this.. I've got these fitted and it made 1001bhp on litchfields dyno, with greddy inlet manifold etc.. 

Not been able to get into the 9s just yet, still working out the best traction/launch 60ft times


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

whats your launch control settings? e.g. BOTL and RPM?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Modifying your setup does not always lose the low down torque.

I have Jun 264 cams which are very mild.

7163 EFR with a larger compressor wheel does not lose you much.

These are wheel torque figures at 3000, 3500 and 4000RPM, divide by 0.85 to get engine torque, although Litchfield us a smaller multiplier which gives higher engine BHP numbers.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

In case the figures are confusing, here is a table that might be easier to read


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

I have this 600lbft rule,
I look see where everyone gets 600 and what rpm. I should be able to get 600 at 3k

This is how I evaluate turbos as at 600 the GTR is moving well.

Most if not all 1K turbo kits , even with standard cams don't do this, hence I went for the 6758s


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

I’ve always liked the 6758, they work well in both single and double fitment.

They bring old cars into a modern era.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Hugh’s 7163 looks good for road. 2k - 4K is the sweet spot for the road for me. For track and drag can launch/rolling boost almost to any range so lag matters less.

what boost you running and transmission spec Hugh?


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## scooobyslayer (Dec 8, 2018)

UKPAISLEY said:


> I think the EFR's don't like to go past 2 bar. On Tuesday I will see where mine will be.


Not a gtr but my Cossie has an efr 9180 on it, made 650 hp at 1.9 bar, and 770 hp at 2.7 bar, that is monitoring shaft speed with 2.7 bar being max recommended shaft speed


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Has Mark tried any g series on the yb’s?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

scooobyslayer said:


> Not a gtr but my Cossie has an efr 9180 on it, made 650 hp at 1.9 bar, and 770 hp at 2.7 bar, that is monitoring shaft speed with 2.7 bar being max recommended shaft speed


its not the shaft speed but the load on the bearing that is the issue.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Just an update , a few map revisions with cam advance and some log files to increase the torque at the *low *revs. Quite a bit was optimised , great work from Litchfield. The reason its a JM dyno graph is that JM is local to me so I was just trying to confirm my bum dyno was reading correctly . On the dyno pull the car was not reved out , but it it had been the power level of 920ish would be the same.

I have a fully built gearbox going in next month, so I will then map the turbos to the max and do another update.

Graph is WHP


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Still the turbo of choice for me


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Whats the max on these turbo's, torque and power. The day to day looks really good


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Reano said:


> Whats the max on these turbo's, torque and power. The day to day looks really good


Depends on the build , but 900 to 950 bhp on Vpower - Torque 800 to 850 lbft


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

I thought I'd seen them top a grand with manifold kit?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> I thought I'd seen them top a grand with manifold kit?


its possible, but its no the norm. generally , the manifold kit gives u a bit more for 5K £


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## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

Nice one Derek, looking good. Were they all road logging updates? or map updates whilst on the dyno?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Tin said:


> Nice one Derek, looking good. Were they all road logging updates? or map updates whilst on the dyno?


All Road logs , about 3 revisions , just on the pick up, if anything its a bit too high now , but will be a good start point for the gearbox build "Send It !" LoL


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

For the fast road this is a great spec, nice and responsive, where as what some have like me (G770 with manifold) I have to press my foot on the right pedal a bit more to get it where it needs to be but when there (like in launch control), etc its madness. Good stuff


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Love the big amount of low down talk for a road car, must drive great.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

My intention was always a road car that could out perform the OEM. I think these are the only turbos that out spool standard with better transient response but still get to a healthy power increase


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

i’d Like to see the run overlayed with a std car to get a bigger picture of the improvements.

To say there a 10yr old turbo now, there’s still nothing to beat them imo.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> i’d Like to see the run overlaid with a std car to get a bigger picture of the improvements.
> 
> To say there a 10yr old turbo now, there’s still nothing to beat them imo.


Its difficult to do as I did not use the same dyno, also the Litchfield chassis dyno they tend to just run into the power run as opposed to loading it up to give the turbos time to spool so its a bit subjective.

But you can see its close to my standard dyno run. This is before the map revisions.
Included is my 1.6 bar draggy , this was pushing my standard box a bit but it shows what's possible.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

What's left to finish off now?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> What's left to finish off now?


Next month
Fully built box , and boost up to 1.8-1.9 Bar maybe a 2.0 Bar kill map for drag runs.


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## adz87kc (Jan 8, 2018)

UKPAISLEY said:


> Fully built box.


Spec you going for?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

adz87kc said:


> Spec you going for?


PPG v3 gears , 16 plate, A and B baskets, drop gears, output shaft. Wavetrac rear diff , forged selectors.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Are you doing anything to the ets?


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> Are you doing anything to the ets?


ETS has been upgraded.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Do you know what mods it has had done, I’ve got a box to do that’s all.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> Do you know what mods it has had done, I’ve got a box to do that’s all.


It's over the top but.

PPG v3 full gearset
PPG drop gears
16 plate clutch with upgraded baskets etc 
Wavetrac rear diff
T1 upper trans brace 
T1 upper trans brace 
Upgraded input/output/ ETS shaft
Upgraded FWD clutch, ball retainer etc
Billet sump, billet selector forks.
That's the spec , built for a higher power level , if I decide change turbos


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## scooobyslayer (Dec 8, 2018)

UKPAISLEY said:


> Its difficult to do as I did not use the same dyno, also the Litchfield chassis dyno they tend to just run into the power run as opposed to loading it up to give the turbos time to spool so its a bit subjective.
> 
> But you can see its close to my standard dyno run. This is before the map revisions.
> Included is my 1.6 bar draggy , this was pushing my standard box a bit but it shows what's possible.
> ...


Very similar to my other gtr, stock gears box, rods and pistons, smaller gt30 on stock manifolds 1.5 bar boost 840 crank hp, 100-200 4.8 seconds, pump fuel full boost by around 3500 rpm


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

UKPAISLEY said:


> It's over the top but.
> 
> PPG v3 full gearset
> PPG drop gears
> ...


This is good, always over engineer as much as you can afford.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

I don't know why you would fit a first and shaft when it's the same to fit a gearset.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

Skint said:


> I don't know why you would fit a first and shaft when it's the same to fit a gearset.


Its a good upgrade if you are planning a small build, but if you have a built engine the 1st gear up grade should be missed and go straight for the gear set. Cost wise its a lot less. It used to be seen as a good upgrade, but now its standard gears then full gear set for the the upgrade path.


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## UKPAISLEY (Jan 17, 2003)

A quick update box is in and the remote map completed. Now I have access to all the torque. Great work by Litchfield , totally different car now.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Perfect road spec for me, think I’m going the same but possibly 4.1 as I have to buy a crank anyway😀


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