# Warming up



## AKS (Feb 4, 2015)

Evening all, tried to search but couldn't find what I was looking for. With previous cars I have locked/ blocked in the car and warmed it up stationary on the drive. However I am now thinking this may not be great. What's the expert opinion on this?


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## jnoor (Feb 24, 2016)

Engine wear and emissions is higher at cold start.

Nothing wrong with allowing the engine to warm up and let everything expand and settle.

I mean F1 engines and other race engines are intravenously warmed up prior to even starting the engine.


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## snuffy (Mar 26, 2014)

Nope.

Start it and drive it. Do not let it idle.


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## jnoor (Feb 24, 2016)

How come you say that Snuffy?


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## snuffy (Mar 26, 2014)

jnoor said:


> How come you say that Snuffy?


You want to get the oil up to temperature as quickly as possible to reduce engine wear and the best way to do that is to drive it straight away as it takes longer if you let it idle first.

There was a thread a a few months ago about this very thing; I will see if I can find it.


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## GT-R David (Mar 13, 2013)

jnoor said:


> How come you say that Snuffy?







jnoor said:


> Engine wear and emissions is higher at cold start.



You said it yourself before?
Never warm a normal engine up at idle.
Will take ages to warm up and engine wear will be a lot higher while cold.

Warm it up with normal driving. No high rpm and no high load.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

agreed, idling is not great for it. It takes longer to actually warm up and I don't believe you get even warming of everything required.

I tend to start it and drive it off boost (-5 vac) until 70 degrees engine and trans (maybe 65 for trans) then I will gradually add in more boost and throttle rather than just going nuts once its hit 70deg

The creator of the GT-R suggests keeping revs below 3000rpm until warm.


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## AKS (Feb 4, 2015)

You learn something new everyday!


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## Imran (May 6, 2017)

See link below. I read this not long ago. 

https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/you-should-never-warm-up-1037894


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

gtr mart said:


> agreed, idling is not great for it. It takes longer to actually warm up and I don't believe you get even warming of everything required.
> 
> I tend to start it and drive it off boost (-5 vac) until 70 degrees engine and trans (maybe 65 for trans) then I will gradually add in more boost and throttle rather than just going nuts once its hit 70deg
> 
> The creator of the GT-R suggests keeping revs below 3000rpm until warm.


Snap. I'll do probably near 10 miles before boost is introduced. 

Another silly thing some people do is drive it in auto from cold, labouring at 30/35mph in 5th and 6th gears on a cold engine, not good.


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## jnoor (Feb 24, 2016)

Learnt something new!


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

I spoke to iain at Litchfields about this a few years back when I got my 09 car and he told me it's better to start it upstairs and let it warm up a little( 2-3minutes) before driving it but let the temp get upto 70 before letting it loose. Hope this helps


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## f5twister (Feb 5, 2013)

I dont agree with driving away right away unless its a very hot day. My opinion is to let it idle for a minute or 2 and then drive away.


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## AKS (Feb 4, 2015)

Great now I am just confused! Should I start a poll between idleing for a few mins or driving at low revs straight away?


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

You're thinking too much. Just drive it as GTR Mart says.


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

snuffy said:


> Nope.
> 
> Start it and drive it. Do not let it idle.


A MUST, idling in drive a big NO NO.


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

AKS said:


> Great now I am just confused! Should I start a poll between idleing for a few mins or driving at low revs straight away?


Get in it and DRIVE.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

The gtr isn't a spaceship... Its a mechanically engine driven car and all mechanical parts require oil to prevent dry wear, its not rocket science for crying out loud, start it let the oil circulation take its course by warming up a little and penetrating everywhere it should and drive sensibly.... And if your still not convinced contact your local nhpc :chuckle:


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Takamo said:


> The gtr isn't a spaceship... Its a mechanically engine driven car and all mechanical parts require oil to prevent dry wear, its not rocket science for crying out loud, start it let the oil circulation take its course by warming up a little and penetrating everywhere it should and drive sensibly.... And if your still not convinced contact your local nhpc :chuckle:


Yeah I would have thought warming up for a few mins then driving would be better, as it gets a bit of heat and circulation going, as if starting and driving off instant, everything is stone cold.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm not at home so can't check. But is this covered in the manual. I'm pretty sure I've read it in one of my recent car's manuals. 

Driving is better than idling.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

I would agree that starting it up cold and then red lining the thing up the road would be a terrible idea (although my daily driver doesn't seem to mind it to much lol) - what we're talking about here is driving the car with very low load at low revs to get the car upto temperature.

It's all about small throttle inputs and gently warming the car. This in turn also warms diffs / brakes and turbos whereas idling just really heats the block.

It also takes longer to heat up, meaning the time where the car is cold is extended.

My car is garaged so I tend to get in, start it up and reverse it out. It then sits for 30 secs to 1 minute whilst I shut the garage door and sort my sat nav / music out. Then I drive nice and carefully out of the village for a mile or so and hit a duel carriageway where I follow my above steps - meaning I can just about drive with traffic and don't exceed the 3k rpm limit. 

My car isn't what I would consider warm for about 10 miles and only then start adding in some boost and building revs. 

Engine load is what will kill a cold engine and that is directly related to throttle opening which you have full control over.


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## Mrak131 (Dec 5, 2017)

AKS said:


> Great now I am just confused! Should I start a poll between idleing for a few mins or driving at low revs straight away?


This is my second GTR and I’ve owned other superscars. I just let them idle for 2-3 mins on a cold start then drive under 3k RPM until they warm up. They’ve never blew up on me ?.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Even idling everything is being warmed up but I agree that a max of 2-3 mins is doing no harm, everything gets on temp quicker when driven sensibly from cold.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

The bottom line seems to be that idling rich for long periods when stone cold increases the chances of cylinder/bore wash, and contaminating the oil.

Most mechanics I've chatted to say get in and drive it gently until oils are up to temp.

I guess in reality idling from cold for up to a minute is normal, but idling stone cold for 5 minutes or more would have me cringing in my boots.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Personally I think it doesnt overly matter.

Had anyone here, ever, heard of someones engine going pop because it was idling on the drive too long?


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

kindai said:


> Personally I think it doesnt overly matter.
> 
> Had anyone here, ever, heard of someones engine going pop because it was idling on the drive too long?


Ermmmm your not really getting the point of not idling, the damage idling could cause and how that damage manifests itself. 


But each to their own.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

misters3 said:


> Ermmmm your not really getting the point of not idling, the damage idling could cause and how that damage manifests itself.
> 
> 
> But each to their own.



A few minutes of idling isn't going to be "damaging" anything in a way that would ever be apparent unless some other aggravating factor was in play.


People making a mountain out of a molehill on this one.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

kindai said:


> A few minutes of idling isn't going to be "damaging" anything in a way that would ever be apparent unless some other aggravating factor was in play.
> 
> 
> People making a mountain out of a molehill on this one.


I think it probably wouldn't manifest itself until probably 60k miles or more.

But running rich when cold for long periods, especially on an older more worn engine will surely contribute to cylinder/bore wash, more so than simply driving off and warming the car in half the time.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Guys im interested in why you think it will be running rich when its idling, mine is only on a fast idle for a few seconds then comes down to a normal idle, its not going to 'bore wash' unless you have badly tuned ID 2000 injectors, the wear on start up is not bore wash its that split second it starts that causes wear. If you want to minimise wear leave it running, theres an engine been running over 100 years on idle never been switched off !!!!


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Maybe we need some R35 GT-R PRO tuner input on this, acspeedtech/litchfields etc.. instead of speculation.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

dudersvr said:


> Guys im interested in why you think it will be running rich when its idling, mine is only on a fast idle for a few seconds then comes down to a normal idle, its not going to 'bore wash' unless you have badly tuned ID 2000 injectors, the wear on start up is not bore wash its that split second it starts that causes wear. If you want to minimise wear leave it running, theres an engine been running over 100 years on idle never been switched off !!!!


 Agreed - With my Cobb accessport running on start up the car runs 14.7 AfR which is not rich at all


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## PaulH0070 (Oct 19, 2017)

So now a for sale ad has to read serviced to the millisecond, on the minute of registration, preferably under a full moon.
Brand new brakes and tyres. Not even used, the car has to be transported back to your home.
Never used in race modes incase of premature wear. Also never in save mode unless temps are precisely 70.99999°. and not in auto (but don't touch the paddles, you'll wear the coating!!)
And also only ever idled stationery for no more than 82.4 seconds. On a 0° incline. Although I did park on a stone once, would that make all the oil run to one side of the engine??

Good job we're not paranoid folks!!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Everybody that owns a jap performance car is paranoid.... paranoid someone is going to rob it, park next to it, that it's going to break....... endless paranoia lol


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

PaulH0070 said:


> So now a for sale ad has to read serviced to the millisecond, on the minute of registration, preferably under a full moon.
> Brand new brakes and tyres. Not even used, the car has to be transported back to your home.
> Never used in race modes incase of premature wear. Also never in save mode unless temps are precisely 70.99999°. and not in auto (but don't touch the paddles, you'll wear the coating!!)
> And also only ever idled stationery for no more than 82.4 seconds. On a 0° incline. Although I did park on a stone once, would that make all the oil run to one side of the engine??
> Good job we're not paranoid folks!!


and don't forget.. NEVER been over 70mph! Ohhh and the usual.... NEVER been launched! :chuckle:


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## PaulH0070 (Oct 19, 2017)

Chronos said:


> Ohhh and the usual.... NEVER been launched! <img src="http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/new/chuckle.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Chuckle" class="inlineimg" />


Blasphemer!! Stone him!!!!!


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

PaulH0070 said:


> So now a for sale ad has to read serviced to the millisecond, on the minute of registration, preferably under a full moon.
> Brand new brakes and tyres. Not even used, the car has to be transported back to your home.
> Never used in race modes incase of premature wear. Also never in save mode unless temps are precisely 70.99999°. and not in auto (but don't touch the paddles, you'll wear the coating!!)
> And also only ever idled stationery for no more than 82.4 seconds. On a 0° incline. Although I did park on a stone once, would that make all the oil run to one side of the engine??
> Good job we're not paranoid folks!!





Stealth69 said:


> Everybody that owns a jap performance car is paranoid.... paranoid someone is going to rob it, park next to it, that it's going to break....... endless paranoia lol


Well my engine's blown up and my gearbox has grenaded TWICE... Maybe I'm just idling it too long??... :chuckle::chuckle:

Now i bet that's got some foooookers paranoid and sweating! :chairshot :chuckle::runaway:


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

Chronos said:


> and don't forget.. NEVER been over 70mph! Ohhh and the usual.... NEVER been launched! :chuckle:


I***8217;ve said before

I***8217;ve never launched in 9000 miles of owning

Or used manual 

Or r mode or over 90


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

matty32 said:


> I've said before
> 
> I've never launched in 9000 miles of owning
> 
> ...


and THATS why YOU find the R35 boring!


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## PaulH0070 (Oct 19, 2017)

Youve done 9000 miles?!?! Your cars worthless Matty, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I've had mine 4 years and never launched it...... never raced it in anger or tracked it either lol


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

With the weather as it is now -5,id idle for 5-10 min then drive off with low rpm low load until up to temp,no way would it feel right to me driviveing straight off from stone bollock cold in the winter,in a hot climate i wouldnt be so concerned,all this bore wash marlarky is from old tec motors,that didnt have closed loop or enginge comp values,modern ECUs are far to adavanced for that to happen,unlees it has a bad tune.get all the fluids moveing then drive like miss daisy for 15 min,its what i do anyways.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

55chev said:


> With the weather as it is now -5,id idle for 5-10 min then drive off with low rpm low load until up to temp,no way would it feel right to me driviveing straight off from stone bollock cold in the winter,in a hot climate i wouldnt be so concerned,all this bore wash marlarky is from old tec motors,that didnt have closed loop or enginge comp values,modern ECUs are far to adavanced for that to happen,unlees it has a bad tune.get all the fluids moveing then drive like miss daisy for 15 min,its what i do anyways.


Exactly! Driving off with a stone cold engine/block in winter I would have thought would do more wear, when you could idle for a bit first to get some heat round and the juices flowing, then drive off to completely warm up.



Stealth69 said:


> I've had mine 4 years and never launched it...... never raced it in anger or tracked it either lol


 I've had mine 4 years and have launched it............ raced it in anger once and blown it up on track! doh


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

matty32 said:


> I've said before
> 
> I've never launched in 9000 miles of owning
> 
> ...


Thats like having a porn star girlfriend and not smashing her back doors in :chairshot


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Going back to running rich, obviously we don't have a choke on our cars lol, but the ecu is telling the injectors to inject more fuel for the first few minutes, otherwise it wouldn't even tick over. Warming up quicker by moving switches the 'choke' off sooner.

There's also the possibility of condensation in the heads lasting for longer periods when idling stationary from cold.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

OK who wants to settle the argument, time how long the car takes to get all 3 temps to 50 on idle and driving. I cant my motors out again.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

dudersvr said:


> OK who wants to settle the argument, time how long the car takes to get all 3 temps to 50 on idle and driving. I cant my motors out again.


Haha, good idea, it needs to be done with precision though, make sure we start at the same temp each time, I'll see what I can do


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I strip naked and go and cuddle the engine until the reaches 27degrees before I'll even switch it on, takes an age but well worth it............ little Todger got stuck to it in all this cold weather luckily the missus was near by with a freshly boiled kettle to free me up


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Guys, because it was cold I let the car idle for 6.2 minutes this morning while I went and made a mug of coffee on the way out.

Im afraid to day the car is now bricked and will be parting it out.


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## PaulH0070 (Oct 19, 2017)

Stealth69 said:


> I strip naked and go and cuddle the engine until the reaches 27degrees before I'll even switch it on, takes an age but well worth it............ little Todger got stuck to it in all this cold weather luckily the missus was near by with a freshly boiled kettle to free me up


It's where she puts the dipstick after checking the oil you need to worry about mate!


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

kindai said:


> Guys, because it was cold I let the car idle for 6.2 minutes this morning while I went and made a mug of coffee on the way out.
> 
> Im afraid to day the car is now bricked and will be parting it out.


Thats nothing, I was scared to let it idle and warm up so drove straight off this morning couldnt see a thing as covered in snow and ice, ran over 3 penguins and hit a snow plough before rolling over, still it never bore washed.:tard:


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

now that's an interesting one John. If my car was covered in snow I wouldn't hesitate to start it running whilst I cleared it off. I also feel the running rich when cold is probably more relevant to older technology. As terry said, having checked AFR's when cold they aren't showing high which proves that point.

My overall view is idling is not necessary - and would only do it for a few minutes if it was insanely cold. Which isn't what we're talking about here.

As an aside, I did time how long it took for trans and oil temps to get to 50 degress, using the start it and drive it carefully approach.

Starting temps were something like:
Trans: 2 deg 
Engine: 7 deg


Engine oil hit 50 degress after about 7 minutes with the trans temp managing it about 3 minutes later. 

I did record how long it then took for both to get to 70, buts its recorded on the cars stopwatch and I've had some gin and cant remember now and cant be arsed to walk out to the garage. Will have a look tomorrow or when I'm next out there.

Anyone 'brave' enough to let their car idle upto 50 degress?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

PaulH0070 said:


> It's where she puts the dipstick after checking the oil you need to worry about mate!


I was only worried the first time, turns out she's a gentle dipper of the stick


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

gtr mart said:


> Anyone 'brave' enough to let their car idle upto 50 degress?


Sure, popping out shortly, will idle it upto 50 and time it.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

kindai said:


> Sure, popping out shortly, will idle it upto 50 and time it.


you might be popping out tomorrow at this rate waiting for it to idle up to 50degs lol


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> you might be popping out tomorrow at this rate waiting for it to idle up to 50degs lol


Nearly lol.

Started it up.

Engine -2
Trans -4

Took 11 minutes for engine to hit 50 degrees.

Then I got bored and drove off, took another 6 minutes of driving for the trans to get there.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> Nearly lol.
> Engine -2
> Trans -4


Is that minus 2/4  or just a dash in front of the numbers?


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> Is that minus 2/4  or just a dash in front of the numbers?



Minus numbers


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## MS33 (Jun 27, 2007)

dudersvr said:


> Thats like having a porn star girlfriend and not smashing her back doors in :chairshot


Love it....:bowdown1::thumbsup:


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Apologies for the delay, but here's the result of my warm-up tests...

Both tests were carried out at 2pm on following days, air temperature 10c, after the car had been parked up over night, so stone cold. Car is a MY16 stage 4 with 30k miles.

Start temp: 10c: Drive straight away/gently < 2.5k rpm / (Idle on driveway)

Coolant 50c @: 3 mins 25 sec (6 mins 10 sec +80%)
Engine oil 50c @: 6 mins 25 sec (10 mins 40 sec +66%)
Trans fluid [email protected] : 8 mins 30 sec (16 mins 0 sec +88%)

So it takes around 80% longer to warm up to 50c just ticking over on the driveway.

Whether warming up slowly causes extra wear or oil contamination seems to be a hotly debated point though.

Edited to fix mistake


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trevgtr said:


> Apologies for the delay, but here's the result of my warm-up tests...
> 
> Both tests were carried out at 2pm on following days, air temperature 10c, after the car had been parked up over night, so stone cold. Car is a MY16 stage 4 with 30k miles.
> 
> ...


Interesting! So basically just under twice as long.. good test bud!


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## AKS (Feb 4, 2015)

Trevgtr said:


> Apologies for the delay, but here's the result of my warm-up tests...
> 
> Both tests were carried out at 2pm on following days, air temperature 10c, after the car had been parked up over night, so stone cold. Car is a MY16 stage 4 with 30k miles.
> 
> ...


Very interesting!! Thank you


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## snuffy (Mar 26, 2014)

Trevgtr said:


> Whether warming up slowly causes extra wear or oil contamination seems to be a hotly debated point though.


_Hotly debated_ - or more lukewarm maybe ?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

**** me some people have way too much time on their hands :tard:

Open it. Start it. Drive it.

I’m in way too much of a hurry to sit staring at the ruddy thing waiting for it to warm up. It can do that on the road.


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## Maxgas (Sep 27, 2017)

Correct me if I am right but I thought that you could not use the
full performance of the car until it had achieved a certain engine oil
temperature @nd transmission temp ?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Maxgas said:


> Correct me if I am right but I thought that you could not use the
> *full performance* of the car until it had achieved a certain engine oil
> temperature @nd transmission temp ?


Why would anyone correct you if you are right?

Driving sensibly with due care to RPMs, throttle usage, strain on gearbox and engine is essential for any car until it's up to optimum temp.


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