# Going to pop the mod cherry



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Decided after going out in Sumo69's car that I simply can't hold off on the modding front. (unless you count the GTC 4 light kit, the white side light bulbs and the interior panel alcantara retrims - oops and the milltek y-pipe).

The factors that put me off initially (warranty, resale) are no longer a concern for me, mostly because I've decided to go with a company who I know will support me should things go wrong, but more importantly, I don't have any reason to believe they will go wrong.

So I'm off to see Iain Litchfield tomorrow.

I've known Iain for a long time, from the good old subaru days (he sold me my 22B in 2000) and despite my umming and ahhing over the Cobb/Ecutek debate (thanks to Thistle for his input - that's one clever guy!), I've come to the conclusion that ultimately, there's going to be no difference in performance, and that I'd rather have my tuning/servicing done all in one place. I have a little more confidence also knowing that Iain's been around for a long time, knows the car better than anyone and I don't think he's going anywhere soon.

I'm having the rest of the milltek exhaust fitted, and of course the ecutek tune.

I did consider going with the injectors and induction kit, but Iain has convinced me to hold off until I do the 18 month service so that I can enjoy another upgrade then, especially if I'm coming back anyway.

My only question is whether there's any point in stopping by surrey rolling road on the way there and the way back to do some before and after power runs, just for the sake of info.

Very excited!!!


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## trickas (Sep 8, 2010)

I would be very interested in your findings as im in the process of doing the same as you
Thanks steve


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Adam

Charlie @ SRR owes me a discounted dyno run - if you want to do a trip down with me next week (this one is too full) I could have a word and get back to you?

David

PS Tell Iain he owes you £5 for fuel!!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Look forward to your first impressions

If I wasn't a Nissan fanboi , I'd definitely be knocking on Litchfield's door.

David; this week is much better for that demo


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

I had no warranty 

so its inducting, injectors and cats all gone + a remap of course

I even get better fuel consumption on a run!

I love it


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## alloy (Apr 29, 2005)

Good stuff, sure you will be really happy with the results

Those basic mods are exponentially felt in the driveability of the car afterwards:thumbsup:


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

yes and yes

its 600+ and pulls like a train, sounds nice with the stock rear exhaust


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

I also have no warranty so mods welcome runaway

And yes 600bhp+ and 750Nm!

Pulls like a locomotive.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Modding is the only way to go with these cars...you will definitely enjoy the extra power...transforms the car:thumbsup:


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Wow, what a day!

Just got home after the long drove back which i thoroughly enjoyed - am tempted to go out some more, the performance is addictive.

When I posted about why would anyone need any more power, I think I failed to grasp a major point. When I went out in sumo's car, I wasn't driving.

Now hanging on the steering wheel, I can understand why people would want more, I'm quite sure I will too!

With that in mind it was comforting to see the grey car in the workshop before mine come back from the dyno with a cool 710bhp reading. One day.....

So my car went in to a workshop that had three other gtrs occupying other ramps. This was on top of about 15 more gtrs parked outside.

On the side of the workshop was a bench area that had a full vr38 stripped down (for development work), this gave me the opportunity to get to know the engine as I had not seen one like this before. I was so used to the ej20 series and the 4g63 and 64, that it was nice to start with a blank canvas and I have to say I was impressed with what I saw.

My car then went up on the ramp and we discussed the options for the appearance of the tailpipes. Not being a showman, I was keen to keep it as stock looking as possible. I hadn't realised it was possible to retain the standard trims so that visually the car would be identical, so I went with this option. In typical Iain fashion, there was no hard sell, so despite the reduction in his profit he happily promoted each option. I didn't expect that completing the full milltek system would come out so cheap!!

To improve on things, when putting the old trims on the milltek silencer ends, they aligned correctly so that the appearance was spot on. No tacky inner pipe protruding too far, and without me even asking. I was chuffed with this as I had planned to do this myself, before thinking I was going to end up with milltek pipes.

So then it was fired up and driven out ready for ecutekking. I was shocked when it caught and settled into a clean idle. It was MUCH quieter than previously with just the y pipe. The full system with the resonated y pipe is almost certainly as quiet as stock, if not quieter. On the subsequent run home I was actually surprised at the lack off volume, despite a drastic improvement in sound quality. It was less hair dryer and more tiger, but was capable of settling down to a purr rather than a raw when cruising, and certainly no drone. Exactly what I wanted sound and looks wise. Thrilled.

So the ecutek.

Iain was adamant that I should bring the car with the fuel I always use and so V-power was the only way. He plugged in the lap top, got it to talk to the ecu, and then we simply went for a brief drive.

I've always been cautious about mapping cars on the road. I've done it many times over the years, and it always worried me, but on this occasion, with iain driving there was nothing to be concerned about.

A few third gear pulls on a straight open road with no other cars, and no joining roads, then hard on the brakes once the target zones had been reached.

We then pulled into a laybe to look at the datalogs, Iain made a few corrections then we had another go to see the result of the changes.

Iain was very pleased that it managed to take a degree or two more timing, and explained the output of the log including where the car had pulled some timing on the first run, where he had lifted off.

he did make it clear that having done so many stage twos, there were very little to expect by way of surprises, and my car was no exception.

It wasn't trivial, but was certainly done quickly and without fuss. Despite it being a custom map, there was no question that the basemap Iain had started from had been finely tuned over many iterations, so there wasn't a huge amount to do.

Once home, Iain showed me how the variable boost worked.

To those interested, you basically hold down the cancel button on the cruise control with the engine on until the check engine light illuminates. This gives you a choice of effectively two presets. Solid CEL means road mode, and flashing is Race mode. Whilst the CEL is showing in either of these modes, operation of the cruise control rocker switch on the dash enables you to select the desired boost target on the mfd.

I just went for max and min on race and road respectively, although like John Banks always says, it's just as easy to control your boost target by going easy on the loud pedal.

So that was it, pay the bill and leave after a nice chat with Iain in comfy surroundings.

I took pictures, mostly of the premises and facilities, but I'll have to spend a lot of time editing out number plates before I can post themm assuming anyone gives a damn.

Of course as mentioned above the drive home was joyous, but as well as the increased performance I took great pleasure in seeing 3mpg indicated better average fuel consumption on the way home than on the way there. I have no idea what he did to achieve this, and have no idea if the average reading is accurate, but I made a point of resetting it before setting out this morning, aqnd again before driving home, and it returned 25 there and 28 back - unscientific but who knows - maybe an additional bonus - but I'm not counting on it.

What I can say is that I think the ecutek is the best £500 I have ever spent on tuning a car.

It's amazing considering I spent about £700 12 years ago on a link ecu that gave a fraction of the performance increase and I got a multitude of problems thrown in for free at the same time. It's amazing how far mapping technology has come.

If anyone is thinking about this modification and has any concerns, give Iain a shout, you won't be dissapointed!


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## trickas (Sep 8, 2010)

A great review so tempted your car sounds so good 
Could you pm me what you paid as I'm very interested
Thanks Steve


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Iain and his team are a class act. Really nice genuine people doing exciting things to make exciting cars even better. :thumbsup:

Competitive price, quality work and genuine enthusiasts... what's not to like? :clap:

The Ecutek functionality is so nicely integrated - I *love* it. No wires, no fuss. Pure Genius! :bowdown1: Glad you are liking it too.

I'm really impressed with the UK tuning scene. SVM, GTC, Litchfield Imports, Sumo Power, RB Motorsport and CPR. To name a few. Not at all bad. Each with their own take on the GT-R and tuning style. 

It seems 700+bhp is becoming ever popular... and stage II is the new Y-pipe minimum mod.

When I first got the little Stage II tune, I thought it was brutal and "How could anybody ever want more!". 3 weeks on, the intensity of the hit has worn off... and I can *see* how petrolheads crave more power. i know how Mr Axel Rose bandmates' felt now, when he sung:

"I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do
So the little got more and more
I just keep tryin' ta get a little better
Said the little better than before" :chuckle: 

Yowsa! :smokin:


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

You are comparing modding to mr. Brownstone?


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

@Adamantium

I'm due my 24 month service soon and will be booking it in to Litchfields again. I'm currently running their stage 1 map with milltek unres y pipe and actively considering going to full milltek + stage 2 map. I actually like the volume of the exhaust as it stands with the unre y pipe but want to do some track days and don't want to get booted off. Just wondering, in the stage 2 tune did Iain give you any other options like filters, intakes etc? or are they reserved for the next rund up, which no doubt I'll be looking at with the 30 month service 
cheers
Mick


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Mick

Adam got his done after a drive in my car so I am qualified to answer after bending Iain's ear for the whole day!

One thing to start - the full Milltek is ALOT quieter than running a Ypipe with OEM backboxes so you have to be ready to accept that. You still get some noise especially throaty in the upper revband but I would say that if you want noise like now then a Milltek isn't for you. The advantage is that Iain is adamant that the full system is worth 15-20bhp which is why he is confident of exceeding 580bhp.

The stage 2 includes K&N filters to replace OEM as they have improved flow.

Iain said the next stage of intake and injectors etc is only really worthwhile if you are going to uprate turbos as without that you can double your modding spend from a Stage 2 for a maximum 25/30bhp, so not the greatest bang for buck - he will do it for you but I got that even he doesn't think the outlay is worthwhile unless you are going north of 650bhp by doing turbos.

Hope that helps.

David


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Yes sorry, forgot to mention the K and N panel filters.

Iain was actually quick to disuade me from going further, he seems to be the opposite of hard sell, which is refreshing.

In relation to noise, I think there is a larger diammeter milltek system coming that might be noisier.

Mine is particularly quiet as I have resonated y pipe. Perhaps without it the noise will be more forthcoming.

You could always do the downpipes as they will certainly make a full system much louder, and combined with intake and injectors would probably be something like another 40/50bhp. Not so insignificant.

I doubt I'll be tracking this car as I think I'd rather hire/buy a caterfield for that, but it's nice to know that if I did want to track it, noise limits wouldn't be a problem.


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## mickv (May 27, 2009)

Thanks for your replies guys. I think I'll see if Iain has a car in with the full milltek so that I can hear it before I take the plunge. I've never been a massive fan of really loud exhausts, but my cat just sounds so good now when you give it the beans that I think I might miss it if I changed it.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

mickv said:


> I've never been a massive fan of really loud exhausts, but my cat just sounds so good now when you give it the beans that I think I might miss it if I changed it.




Try not to give your cat beans, I can't imagnie their digestive system has evolved to be able to eat them.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

:bawling:


Adamantium said:


> You are comparing modding to mr. Brownstone?


Lol  Nah. It's not the modding itself, but the rush from the extra performance due to the power and torque increase. I'd say that initially the performance seems wild, but one gets used it quite quickly, then crave a little more.
Reckon that's how the big power chaps end up where they end up with proper fire-breathing monsters. Thought the lyrics captured the effect of addiction be it due to recreational drugs or a natural adrenaline rush!



mickv said:


> Thanks for your replies guys. I think I'll see if Iain has a car in with the full milltek so that I can hear it before I take the plunge. I've never been a massive fan of really loud exhausts, but my cat just sounds so good now when you give it the beans that I think I might miss it if I changed it.


I have to admit I find the stage II Miltek a tinsy bit on the "boomy" side with a low frequency hum that is annoying, but it can changes frequency by changing cruise speed or can be drowned-out by music. 

Subjectively it's not loud at all. Certainly doesn't sound louder than standard. In the cockpit you don't get the nice "baaarrpp" noise I was looking for. :bawling: However, standing on the outside the "barrp" is there and it definitely sounds more fruity than the OEM exhaust. :thumbsup: Plus I now get my tips polished far more than I did before 

Overall, really pleased and would highly recommend. As my previous posts indicate. The car goes beautifully, the performance is on another level and it feels like a whole new machine, with the fun of to getting to know again :chuckle:

I meant to sound meter my exhaust before and after. A long time ago, I did it with the OEM and I think I got 90db at 4500rpm on the OEM system at around a metre distance for the exhaust tips. I'll have a play with the Milteks (cat back) and let you know what I get. I'd be interested to hear if they'd be any improvement to the cruise and on-throttle sound fx with the full down-pipes and/or resonated or non-resonated Y-pipe.


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Glad you like the Stage2 Adam and thanks for the kind words 

Our exhaust options:
Milltek Y-pipe back Rear system, EC Approved and as per Adam's GTR which is very trackday friendly etc.
£791.23+VAT (re-using original tail trims)
£1,143.23+ VAT (using Milltek Stainless Steel Rear Trims)
£1,319.23+VAT (using Milltek Titanium Rear Trims)

For references the Noise levels for the E-marked system are:
OEM System 84.1 Db
OEM Y-pipe with Milltek rear system 84.2 Db
Milltek Y-pipe with OEM Rear system 93.9 Db
Milltek Y-pipe with Milltek rear system 86.7Db

We also offer a Milltek Race Y-pipe back Rear system which is basically the same exhaust but with the internal baffles reduced to give a more potent sound. This system is still not what you would class as a loud system and certainly quieter than most of the Asian systems we see. It is designed for the customer that wants to retain most of the noise of a Y-pipe only system with the performance benefits of the Milltek rear system. The price and tail trim options are the same as the normal E-marked system.

Milltek are currently building our new 90mm systems which are designed for customer running over 700bhp or Downpipes that want maximum performance(standard Milltek good for over 700bhp) but with acceptable noise levels.

Our recommendation for customers wanting further upgrades from the stage 2 level is to move straight to Stage 4 which includes new 1,100cc Fuel Injectors and larger Intake pipes.

We will update our website soon with more information which will hopefully make the various options a little clear but you are always welcome to call to discuss in more details.
Regards

Iain


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Iain,

The 710bhp car that you dynoed before I arrived. What did he have that I don't? (apart from about 120bhp).


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## S99ANE (Apr 3, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> Iain,
> 
> The 710bhp car that you dynoed before I arrived. What did he have that I don't? (apart from about 120bhp).


Deeper pockets??

:flame:
:flame:
:flame:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Its a slippery slope...


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Adam, it took you 6months to decide to go for Stage2, stage 6 will give you far to much to worry about  

Details of some of the options are on our site:
Litchfield

The 710bhp car you saw had our stage6 kit conversion and gearbox Circlip upgrade.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

What Y pipes are the most silent ones? 
I guess the GTC y pipe with resonator and silencer would be the best choice. Hence HKS has also one Y-pipe with silencer.

I need one Y-pipe with silencer as it's too loud in this neighbourhood to start a car with that much noise.


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Enshiu I have not seen the other resonated Y-pipes so I'm not sure how quiet they are. Our resonated Milltek Y-pipe is £491+vat.


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## DWC (May 18, 2009)

Iv got Iian's resonated milltek Y-Pipe and it's just right I would say. Just a tad quieter than the non Resonated.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Adamantium said:


> Iain,
> 
> The 710bhp car that you dynoed before I arrived. What did he have that I don't? (apart from about 120bhp).


Oh surely not you only just got this one hahaha!


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I was innocently enquiring for interest's sake!

Nothing more.


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## Turbotwo (Jan 28, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> Try not to give your cat beans, I can't imagnie their digestive system has evolved to be able to eat them.


I said the same sort of thing to my Mum the other day,she was feeding the local pheasants cheese(she lives in the country).I said `Mum, for goodness sake don`t feed them cheese,they`re not designed for dairy products``.She replied,`but they like it,look how they`re tucking in`.What can you do..


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Iain

As you are posting here, can I ask a question re my Milltek system.

It appears that 1 of the 4 tips is not getting anywhere near as much soot as the other 3 so much that it is obvious upon looking - can you explain this in any way?

David


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Lol. I asked this too David. Getting the same effect. Inners well sooty, outers clean.

Just one of them things I guess. Probably a centrifuge type effect of the gas flow.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

If that were the case, then they'd all do it.

I'd think it more likely needs an adjustment of some kind.


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

If Iain actually comes back and replies, we may all find out!

D


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Sumo69, sorry I have not instantly replied to you post but as much as I like this forum I do have a life as well  Today I have been on a Rally with my GTR so have not been keeping an eye possible forum questions.

It is unusual to have one exhaust trim not matching the others but we have seen it before on a couple (we have sold well over 100 systems) and it turned out the internal baffle was a slightly (5mm) length which meant the exhaust gases took the easier option of going out the other 3 as there is so little back pressure. If there is a fault we will naturally replace the exhaust under warranty for you  

I will give you a call tomorrow to discuss but if you every have an urgent question you are welcome to phone me anytime.

Regards

Iain


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## chrisneeves (Apr 7, 2010)

Adamantium said:


> Iain,
> 
> The 710bhp car that you dynoed before I arrived. What did he have that I don't? (apart from about 120bhp).


Adam,

The 710+hp motor was me. It is indeed a slippery slope... 18months ago i went from std to milltek non res y pipe and stg 1 tune. Nice increase in power, big increase in noise, maybe a bit droney at some rpm on the motorway, borderline pain in the ar$e. Measured 103.9db static at a trackday (105 limit) 12 months ago, i then upgraded to full milltek with K&N panel filters and stg 2 map. Again nice little increase in power, noticeable all the way through rev range and a lot quieter. Nice deeper burbly sound no drone, perfect. Measured 90 something DB's static at same track, same noise meter.. Now have the full 710+ 'works' with downpipes, turbo's etc. A lot louder, but in a purposeful non chav like way. Probably too loud for trackday, but i will pop across and get a sound reading in coming weeks instead of paying money out and getting disapointed on the day. If its only a few DB adrift then a milltek resonator will be aquired.. The sound is just sublime.. At 4000rpm the pitch changes to a scream, almost italian exotica in sound. Not as loud as some of the titanium systems i have heard, maybe 1-2 lower DB but who cares, but with a deeper tone. Their is a small tunnel near me, guess which way i drove home on friday.. :clap::clap::clap: If the milltek cat back with non res y is too quiet, you need down pipes. But don't expect to make friends with the neighbours, and trackday's will be a problem. Sound is amazing though.

Finally the stg 6 conversion is awesome, although the accountant is trying to work why i am looking closer to home this year for the family holiday. If i get time i'll put the build up in the project section.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

chrisneeves said:


> Adam,
> 
> The 710+hp motor was me. It is indeed a slippery slope... 18months ago i went from std to milltek non res y pipe and stg 1 tune. Nice increase in power, big increase in noise, maybe a bit droney at some rpm on the motorway, borderline pain in the ar$e. Measured 103.9db static at a trackday (105 limit) 12 months ago, i then upgraded to full milltek with K&N panel filters and stg 2 map. Again nice little increase in power, noticeable all the way through rev range and a lot quieter. Nice deeper burbly sound no drone, perfect. Measured 90 something DB's static at same track, same noise meter.. Now have the full 710+ 'works' with downpipes, turbo's etc. A lot louder, but in a purposeful non chav like way. Probably too loud for trackday, but i will pop across and get a sound reading in coming weeks instead of paying money out and getting disapointed on the day. If its only a few DB adrift then a milltek resonator will be aquired.. The sound is just sublime.. At 4000rpm the pitch changes to a scream, almost italian exotica in sound. Not as loud as some of the titanium systems i have heard, maybe 1-2 lower DB but who cares, but with a deeper tone. Their is a small tunnel near me, guess which way i drove home on friday.. :clap::clap::clap: If the milltek cat back with non res y is too quiet, you need down pipes. But don't expect to make friends with the neighbours, and trackday's will be a problem. Sound is amazing though.
> 
> Finally the stg 6 conversion is awesome, although the accountant is trying to work why i am looking closer to home this year for the family holiday. If i get time i'll put the build up in the project section.


sounds great; must stay away


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

chrisneeves said:


> Adam,
> 
> The 710+hp motor was me. It is indeed a slippery slope... 18months ago i went from std to milltek non res y pipe and stg 1 tune. Nice increase in power, big increase in noise, maybe a bit droney at some rpm on the motorway, borderline pain in the ar$e. Measured 103.9db static at a trackday (105 limit) 12 months ago, i then upgraded to full milltek with K&N panel filters and stg 2 map. Again nice little increase in power, noticeable all the way through rev range and a lot quieter. Nice deeper burbly sound no drone, perfect. Measured 90 something DB's static at same track, same noise meter.. Now have the full 710+ 'works' with downpipes, turbo's etc. A lot louder, but in a purposeful non chav like way. Probably too loud for trackday, but i will pop across and get a sound reading in coming weeks instead of paying money out and getting disapointed on the day. If its only a few DB adrift then a milltek resonator will be aquired.. The sound is just sublime.. At 4000rpm the pitch changes to a scream, almost italian exotica in sound. Not as loud as some of the titanium systems i have heard, maybe 1-2 lower DB but who cares, but with a deeper tone. Their is a small tunnel near me, guess which way i drove home on friday.. :clap::clap::clap: If the milltek cat back with non res y is too quiet, you need down pipes. But don't expect to make friends with the neighbours, and trackday's will be a problem. Sound is amazing though.
> 
> Finally the stg 6 conversion is awesome, although the accountant is trying to work why i am looking closer to home this year for the family holiday. If i get time i'll put the build up in the project section.


Hi mate, sounds awesome, are you still on STD internals at 710bhp?, what difference do you notice in lag with the upgraded turbos?


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## chrisneeves (Apr 7, 2010)

bobel said:


> Hi mate, sounds awesome, are you still on STD internals at 710bhp?, what difference do you notice in lag with the upgraded turbos?


stock internals, tuned to limit torque to 600. No lag ! drives like stock / better than stock low down, with power gradually building. When i do a write up i'll share before and after dyno graphs.


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