# So this happened tonight



## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

No pops and bangs map but she did make a ****ing good bang when this happened lol


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Oh no whats up?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

That’s a bit of a shit start to the weekend. A bang of any kind is not good so let’s hope it wasn’t anything too major.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Huge bang, oil everywhere....... was gonna happen eventually, it***8217;s a tuned jap car lol


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh f*ck - sorry to hear mate, you will get it sorted


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

terry lloyd said:


> Oh f*ck - sorry to hear mate, you will get it sorted


Cheers bud...... will be back stronger a better


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## Imran (May 6, 2017)

Sorry to hear that, doesn't sound too good.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

Damn. Sorry to hear that. Sounds like it's a rod gone. If so, hopefully not too much additional damage.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Cheers fella, yeah I suspect rod and block minimum, need to get the trays off and have a look


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

Ah, that sucks. Hope it's not too bad. I know the feeling, though touch wood, not with the GTR.

Any circumstances? Like were you giving it some, or pootling along? Any signs previous? Or just shit itself without warning?

And how come its so dirty? Thought the weather was nice and you're a fair weather driver aren't you!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

3rd gear, pulled out to over take, got to 4500-5000rpm and then BANG game over man!!! 

Oil pressure was bang on, fuel was shell vpower, no knock warnings prior, nothing........ just went pop lol 

4500rpm probably around peak torque on a 4.25 but I***8217;m not down about it, not pissed, it was always going to happen at that state of tune, was just a case of when I guess, annoyed that it***8217;s only been back out after being sat in the garage for 7months but that***8217;s just tuned jap way lol


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## Imran (May 6, 2017)

What torque was yours running at? I thought stage 4.25 torque was relatively safe?

What kind of repair bill are you looking at, any idea?


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## D7reU (Jan 7, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> 3rd gear, pulled out to over take, got to 4500-5000rpm and then BANG game over man!!!
> 
> Oil pressure was bang on, fuel was shell vpower, no knock warnings prior, nothing........ just went pop lol
> 
> 4500rpm probably around peak torque on a 4.25 but I’m not down about it, not pissed, it was always going to happen at that state of tune, was just a case of when I guess, annoyed that it’s only been back out after being sat in the garage for 7months but that’s just tuned jap way lol



Who was the 4.25 done by? and how many miles did it cover?


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## dazzabb (Oct 29, 2016)

Imran said:


> What torque was yours running at? I thought stage 4.25 torque was relatively safe?


Likewise, but I guess "relatively" is the important word here.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Stealth69 said:


> 3rd gear, pulled out to over take, got to 4500-5000rpm and then BANG game over man!!!
> 
> Oil pressure was bang on, fuel was shell vpower, no knock warnings prior, nothing........ just went pop lol
> 
> 4500rpm probably around peak torque on a 4.25 but I***8217;m not down about it, not pissed, it was always going to happen at that state of tune, was just a case of when I guess, annoyed that it***8217;s only been back out after being sat in the garage for 7months but that***8217;s just tuned jap way lol


Hard luck there Stealth, but must say you're taking it very well, I'd be reaaaaaly pissed personally! 

Like sim said, I thought your car was a garage queen, gets locked up all winter then fully serviced every spring before using it. Stage 4.25 isn't big or unusual power, and 3rd gear overtakes aren't straining as if you're flooring in 5th or 6th, what the **** caused it?! Really unlucky but it shouldn't have happened to my mind, is dodgy fuel a possibility?

Also, my car is a daily and used all winter, but has never looked half as dirty as yours, sorry just had to point that out, as people that don't drive in winter always have a dig at me lol, only joking 

Will be interested to hear what AC say, keep us informed and good luck


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

If it's been laid up and first time out, would need a fresh tank. I work away so when I get home I have to drive it like miss daisy to run the old fuel through and I get it down to nothing. Now I hardly leave anything in it.

The danger is condensation and water in the tank though, so can't win


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

Trevgtr said:


> Hard luck there Stealth, but must say you're taking it very well, I'd be reaaaaaly pissed personally!


Depends where he is on the 7 stages of grief!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

There are a lot of stage 4 cars going fizz in all honesty and like I say, 4.25 is pretty stressful for the engine and at 4500-5000rpm at WOT it***8217;s at peak torque and accelleratig hard. Don***8217;t know what torque it was running but it has been on that map for 4 years so I suspect it***8217;s done ok....... probably one of the lowest mileage GTR***8217;s to go fizz as she only has 26k on the clock lol

Not sure what let go, will defo let you know what I get time 

She is a garage queen which is part of the irony, but she had done prior to this and thens splashing through the puddles as she bleeds to death, the back was oil and soot lol she had a service and fresh Tesco 99 fuel, thinking back yeah it was Tesco fuel. 


Just the way it goes lol not the first tuned jap car I***8217;ve killed and probably won***8217;t be the lastt......... hopefully the last GT-R tho as Whilst I don***8217;t really care as t gives me a reason now to actually go big, I***8217;m not in the slightest bit excited about the invoice lol


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

Were you in map 4 full boost?

Sorry for all the questions, I really don't want this to happen to mine either and my plan is to forge so want the car to make it till then!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I was on full everything mate, I think the engine exploded because I was pushing the accelerator so hard my foot went though to the block, I actually kicked a hole in it lol

Like I say, it***8217;s a tuned jap car and whilst I don***8217;t relish getting the bill I was totally aware of what I was doing to the car when I tuned it and when I drive it lol


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Sorry to hear dude, get it forged and all the worry will go. Another one to add to the growing list.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Yeah going to forge and then build up from that, peace of mind and what not


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Oh dear that sounds expensive. Sucks it***8217;s at the start of summer!


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

Used as intended, least you went out in a blaze of glory. Hopefully you got past the car you overtook and sprayed him in oil as a last hurrah of defiance!

On a brighter note, the coating of oil underneath should offer some corrosion protection.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

simGTR said:


> Used as intended, least you went out in a blaze of glory. Hopefully you got past the car you overtook and sprayed him in oil as a last hurrah of defiance
> 
> On a brighter note, the coating of oil underneath should offer some corrosion protection.


Lol oh yeah got passed and sprayed them with oil and suspect shards of engine, they probably though my they were under attack lol 

Every cloud hey, at least when they do go they go in to self preservation storage mode and underseal themselves lol


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Can just imagine the drivers thoughts while being overtaken ( Well Nearly )Them F*cking Datsuns are always doing that 

On a serious note there was a advert in the for sale section where someone is thinking of breaking a R35


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

tonigmr2 said:


> Oh dear that sounds expensive. Sucks it’s at the start of summer!


It sounded fantastic and expensive when it went I can tell you that much lol


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## Blade1 (Aug 17, 2011)

Was the car tuned by one of the big tuners with a warranty to prevent you paying a high amount to fix?

I'd love to go 4.25 myself but this very thing worries me. Apparently are the rods are weak - can they be replaced for aftermarket items in isolation on a 4.25 build?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

The car was tuned by a reputable tuner yes, not some dodgy back street. The car has been in this state for four years so even if there was a warranty it would have lapsed long ago lol 

I think you can theoretically do a rod job on the car but it***8217;s not worth it, just have it all done properly, I should have done it ages ago really but was always chancing my arm I guess. 

The tuner is in no way responsible for this, I***8217;m not blaming anyone but myself, heavy foot and high state of tune on standard internals = issues...... same as any jap car, I***8217;ve blown up three imprezas, an evo and they were all done dealt with and looked after by big tuners......... just the gamble we take


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## JatPunjabi (Apr 21, 2018)

Sorry to read of your mishap. Great attitude from you however, ..onwards and upwards !


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Blade1 said:


> I'd love to go 4.25 myself but this very thing worries me. Apparently are the rods are weak - can they be replaced for aftermarket items in isolation on a 4.25 build?


Rods are THE weak point.

And whilst you may think it’s a case of dropping in stronger rods, it’s just not that simple.

You have to use new bearings, gaskets, balance the rotating assembly etc etc etc.

That’s the major cost not buying the rods and pistons. It’s the labour and ancillary components required to put the engine back together.

At that point you’d be crazy not to use new pistons.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Sad Sad news bud, Gutted for you!!!

I have reported on here about what happened to mine at stage 4.25, people don't put you're head in the sand, hoping it doesn't happen to you! IF you want more power/tune like we all do, save your pennies and get a basic-full forge! Mine was at that stage for 2 years, used regularly then went pop! Best thing for peace of mind is get a forge for about 6-8k whilst all is running ok, otherwise and i hate to say it, you're looking at one popped nearly 1/2 on top of that for a fixed+Forged motor (block/other fragged parts like head/turbos/crank/extra labor/balance/bearings/ancillarys etc)

see http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/558922-stage-4-5-upgrade-ss-ic.html

see here for a build example prices/parts etc http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/481729-winter-builds-special-offerings.html


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

So many people will be shitting themselves right now lol


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> So many people will be shitting themselves right now lol


Pahahahaha best upgrade your web hosting for the mass of panic posts and questions lol


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## Mr.B (Feb 18, 2016)

That really sucks but at least you***8217;re realistic about tuning and the risks. Looking forward to reading the build thread.


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

I've been worried since I bought it. Luckily I drive it that rarely, 1 bar is enough for me in map 2. I make sure I have about 10 miles in the tank before I fill up, which also invokes anxiety as it stops giving you a range when you get that low!

Figure about 10k once you account for all the oil changes, remap and extras. Is the Litchfield price a drive in/out? When I spoke to AC, there seemed to be a few extra costs that deterred me.

When I heard it getting mapped on the Litchfield dyno I was mega anxious. I was chuffed when it survived!


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Gutted for you, been there myself 3 times before with RB engines. uke:

I***8217;m quite sure the masses that own R35***8217;s could afford a rebuild? :shy:

If not, how did they buy the car in the first place? They aren***8217;t cheap!


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Mookistar said:


> So many people will be shitting themselves right now lol


What ever do you mean? :double-finger:  Here's a picture of mine when it went, just to ram it home to you peeps! Get tune stage 4+ = GET FORGED!

Here's what happens when a rod makes an escape for freedom!

*rod escaped!*


















*Crank fragged*



















Now Carillo rods (CARR BOLTS - stronger)/ CP pistons / HKS cams / New block and been running dandy for 1.5 years!


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)




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## Imran (May 6, 2017)

What's the safest stage of tune before putting too much strain on the engine? I previously thought it was stage 4.25.


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## sh3lldon (Nov 11, 2017)

Admire the way your taking it, whilst not being great these things happen and there are more important things to worry about!

Hope you are back enjoying it soon!


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Imran said:


> What's the safest stage of tune before putting too much strain on the engine? I previously thought it was stage 4.25.


Always remember a great quote from AMS Tuning - running a gtr over 600hp - the stock turbos become flame throwers


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

The safest tune is stock plain and simple, if you***8217;re risk adverse then leave it alone lol


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Unlucky bud !!

Paul and Julian both have a stock of engines.
Sounds like its 4.0 oclock


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## PaulH0070 (Oct 19, 2017)

Jesus, tough break there buddy...you do have some form with killing cars don't you? 

As others have said, hats off to your attitude and hope the bill isn't too bad. 

I think if that happened to me I'd be walking off down the road in tears to find all the essentials for an R35 shaped BBQ.


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

Can we have a blown motor register as a sticky? Just a list of known blown motors, stage, bit of blurb and what happened.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

simGTR said:


> Can we have a blown motor register as a sticky? Just a list of known blown motors, stage, bit of blurb and what happened.


Tried that 3 years ago - went south quickly 

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/365682-engine-failures.html


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

PaulH0070 said:


> Jesus, tough break there buddy...you do have some form with killing cars don't you?
> 
> As others have said, hats off to your attitude and hope the bill isn't too bad.
> 
> I think if that happened to me I'd be walking off down the road in tears to find all the essentials for an R35 shaped BBQ.


That was an option offered by a mate, could have eaten well whilst waiting for the AA to arrive lol


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

Tuners will be wondering why they're getting a spike in rebuild queries! Just fired a mail off this morning!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I wonder if I***8217;ll get a discount for creating the spike in builds pahahahaha


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

Stealth69 said:


> I wonder if I’ll get a discount for creating the spike in builds pahahahaha


I'll mention your name..

#RebuildStealth


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Pahahahaha thanks mate lol


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Imran said:


> What's the safest stage of tune before putting too much strain on the engine? I previously thought it was stage 4.25.


There have been stock cars that have thrown rods mate so it's not like it only ever happens to modified cars; just that it's many times more likely to happen when you stress components near to (and definitely beyond) their expected tolerances.

Feel really bad for Tone (I had my car forged recently to (hopefully) prevent this ...) but he is taking it very pragmatically so that is good.

Personally, I think that the car said "Why you not drive me? I'rr show you!" Bang! "RoR"

Happened to a Kuro Black GT-R too; which is surprising as we all know that they're the slowest!


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Sorry you experienced this, I'm running at 4.25 (although I do have sports cats in the exhaust system to make MOT passable and get rid of the fuel smell ) and this is why I went for an ACSpeedtech forged build last year.

Was a fair bit more than just the rebuild cost as Andy discovered (and fixed at a great price) some issue with RH bank exhaust cam pulleys but for peace of mind.., unbeatable.

David


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

Evo9lution said:


> There have been stock cars that have thrown rods mate so it's not like it only ever happens to modified cars; just that it's many times more likely to happen when you stress components near to (and definitely beyond) their expected tolerances.
> 
> Feel really bad for Tone (I had my car forged recently to (hopefully) prevent this ...) but he is taking it very pragmatically so that is good.
> 
> ...


Had anyone done a survey, I know John's car was black, so might be something to do with the colour. ConRod Black?


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

simGTR said:


> Had anyone done a survey, I know John's car was black, so might be something to do with the colour. ConRod Black?


I know of at least four black GT-Rs that have grenaded, unfortunately. Mine's UMS but I wasn't taking any chances ...


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Black is the fastest colour, fastest in speed and fastest to grenade lol


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Evo9lution said:


> There have been stock cars that have thrown rods mate so it's not like it only ever happens to modified cars; just that it's many times more likely to happen when you stress components near to (and definitely beyond) their expected tolerances.
> 
> Feel really bad for Tone (I had my car forged recently to (hopefully) prevent this ...) but he is taking it very pragmatically so that is good.
> 
> ...


Lol I think you might be right, she defo showed me!!! Don***8217;t drive it, drive it........ turns out it will blow up either way eventually, I just wasn***8217;t expecting it at 26k miles lol


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

Tony, regarding the fuel situation with your car, was the tank fully empty when you refuelled with fresh Momentum or did you top up fuel left in over the winter?
If it was the latter it could easily have been a major contributing factor as the fuel goes off in time and may have caused some serious detonation. It's always best to have fresh fuel if you are intending on running a car hard.


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

barry P. said:


> Tony, regarding the fuel situation with your car, was the tank fully empty when you refuelled with fresh Momentum or did you top up fuel left in over the winter?
> If it was the latter it could easily have been a major contributing factor as the fuel goes off in time and may have caused some serious detonation. It's always best to have fresh fuel if you are intending on running a car hard.


The stock ECU has active knock retard and will pull up to 7 degrees of ignition timing out to stop this from happening. If the car is on an Ecutek remap it would also flash the management light to let you know it is doing it.


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## GTRZOOM (Aug 30, 2013)

Think I need to go down this route Morgan! Huracan aint happening just yet after I did a bit of window shopping last night :S

Sorry to hear mate sure it'll come back stronger!



dudersvr said:


> Sorry to hear dude, get it forged and all the worry will go. Another one to add to the growing list.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I agree. It***8217;s far more likely that the failure was cyclic fatigue of the rods over time. The only other high probability event is oil starvation but in pretty much all the documented failures I***8217;ve seen it***8217;s been the rods letting go over time.

Gutted for you stealth. It makes my decision to build my engine more and more sensible especially given how id used my car.

I wish you luck here on in. It***8217;s a right shitter when it happens but hopefully you***8217;ll end up with a bulletproof build you can enjoy to the full once more.

Have you decided who you***8217;re gonna use?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Cheers mate, is what it is and she will be back stronger and harder than ever before with a lick more pace. 

I***8217;ll be sticking with ACSpeedtech for the build. They are more tuner, car maintainers and have been very good with me.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

barry P. said:


> Tony, regarding the fuel situation with your car, was the tank fully empty when you refuelled with fresh Momentum or did you top up fuel left in over the winter?
> If it was the latter it could easily have been a major contributing factor as the fuel goes off in time and may have caused some serious detonation. It's always best to have fresh fuel if you are intending on running a car hard.


The car was on fresh fuel chap...... I put her away for winter with a damn near empty tank, brimmed her with shell v power to go to Manchester for the service and back and hen filled up again with Tesco99 upon my return. 

The car didn***8217;t even attempt to pull timing, everything was spot on..... one minute she was pulling hard and the next I was showering the car behind with GT-R and my fresh oil lol


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Stealth69 said:


> Cheers mate, is what it is and she will be back stronger and harder than ever before with a lick more pace.
> 
> I’ll be sticking with ACSpeedtech for the build. They are more tuner, car maintainers and have been very good with me.


Couldn’t agree more. They’ll build you a beauty, that’s for sure.

Nows the time for enjoying the search for your new spec. It’ll ease the pain a little hopefully


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## Karls (Jul 12, 2010)

simGTR said:


> Tuners will be wondering why they're getting a spike in rebuild queries! Just fired a mail off this morning!


Depending on whom you sent it to, don’t expect a reply!


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

So who mapped the engine ?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Acspeedtech mapped it 4 years ago


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## mr_maj (Feb 8, 2005)

Claim on your insurance for this its going to be a big bill to foot


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Can***8217;t claim on my insurance for the engine letting go


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

In all fairness, it does show that mileage isn't a particularly good indicator for certain cars. 26k fun miles might have been harder than 50k daily miles.

I know our BMW at 18k has had a far easier life than my Westfield at 10k.


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## mr_maj (Feb 8, 2005)

why not? i have done in the past its what its there for


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Insurance is there for accidents and other such damage, plus I don***8217;t want any insurance claims against my car in honesty.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

This has been my fear of tuning my car any higher as I don't want the grief of this and a lesser tune is fine for road use imho.


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## mr_maj (Feb 8, 2005)

Just for info guys I was reading the GT-R customer disclosure form (the one they make you sign at the dealer before handing the car over) and they've written this in relation to modification on the engine control system if boost is increased more than 15kPa (0.15kgf/cm) " the engine assembly, transmission and driveshaft should be replaced" 

Its very interesting reading and makes me wonder about shortened engine and drivetrain life when remapping!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

That***8217;s just nonsense from Nissan, that***8217;s just their way of wriggling out of everything, that***8217;s 2psi, the car could over swing by 2psi on a really cold day and when they use the exact same engine internal and gearbox between the CBA (480bhp), dba (550bhp) and the EBA, whatever that runs, it just proves is bollocks really because all they did was raise the boost and add oversized intakes to get the added power lol


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## Mr.B (Feb 18, 2016)

So when modifying an R35:

1: Upgrade suspension, ARB’s, castor (lose the marshmallow Nissan OEM stuff)
2. Forge Engine
3: Stage upgrade and remap + gear box upgrades and brakes depending on power
4. Enjoy the new power/torque without wearing your brown trousers :chuckle:


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

That***8217;s not a bad summary lol


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

simGTR said:


> In all fairness, it does show that mileage isn't a particularly good indicator for certain cars. 26k fun miles might have been harder than 50k daily miles.
> 
> I know our BMW at 18k has had a far easier life than my Westfield at 10k.


It does make you wonder, especially as this car had all oils and fluids changed religiously every year after only a few k miles.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

I still find it hard to believe that stage 4 needs forging. Litchfield are happy to warranty stage 4 and 4.25 cars that are not forged, that must mean something? 

EBA run 1 bar standard, stage 4 is 1.3 bar peak trailing off, not massively more power. Torque is usually capped around 600 ft/lb for safety.

Do rods become fatigued with age, even if they have low miles? Are these failures mostly occurring on older R35's?


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

If I get a new EBA I am going to do suspension and brakes - and then concentrate on the thing that needs the biggest modification...my driving skills

Having had a GTR engine go bang I am not keen on it again!


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

Trevgtr said:


> I still find it hard to believe that stage 4 needs forging. Litchfield are happy to warranty stage 4 and 4.25 cars that are not forged, that must mean something?
> 
> EBA run 1 bar standard, stage 4 is 1.3 bar peak trailing off, not massively more power. Torque is usually capped around 600 ft/lb for safety.
> 
> Do rods become fatigued with age, even if they have low miles? Are these failures mostly occurring on older R35's?


Your going to have to except that the biggest contributing factor is Nissan's poor quality control on these critical components. 

I have personally over the years seen 2 bone stock GTR's break rods and know of at least another 2 cases from credible sources.

I have also personally seen at least 5 bone stock GTR's break teeth off 4th gear in the gearbox.

Now on the flip side cars in the early years of tuning where run to around 650ftlb of torque and stil run strong today and have not had a rod go

I know personally of 10 plus cars out there with built engines and turbos that make 700 - 720ftlb on stock gearbox's with only clutches and billet baskets that are all doing fine. 

I'm not for 1 minute saying that running these components harder dose not increase the risk of failure but it seems luck plays a major part.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I agree it is all luck, Mine simply ran out Pahahahahaha


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> Black is the fastest colour, fastest in speed and fastest to grenade lol


Maybe, but they have the slowest drivers! :chuckle:


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

I guess I am one of the lucky ones, so far... 

800bhp 657ftlbs 2010 car on 40k miles, standard engine and gearbox.


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Evo9lution said:


> Maybe, but they have the slowest drivers! :chuckle:


Oi

:ban::ban::ban::double-finger::double-finger::double-finger:


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## Jetpilot (Jan 13, 2018)

Hold your head high dude, very impressive attitude, usually people want someone or something to blame :bowdown1:


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Evo9lution said:


> Maybe, but they have the slowest drivers! :chuckle:





vxrcymru said:


> Oi
> 
> :ban::ban::ban::double-finger::double-finger::double-finger:


I rest my case, Dylan :squintdan


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Your going to have to except that the biggest contributing factor is Nissan's poor quality control on these critical components.
> 
> I have personally over the years seen 2 bone stock GTR's break rods and know of at least another 2 cases from credible sources.
> 
> ...


It would be interesting to know the stories behind the failures, whether it's more commonly cars that do fewer miles, or whether it really is random luck.

I've done 100k miles in 3 different R35's (1 stock, 1 stage 2, current stage 4) used every day, and have never had an engine problem. Wonder if regular daily use is actually better for the car? Can't imagine so, but just thinking out loud


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

vxrcymru said:


> I guess I am one of the lucky ones, so far...
> 
> 800bhp 657ftlbs 2010 car on 40k miles, standard engine and gearbox.


So how many miles have you ran that setup?
Is it a daily driver?
Do you kick it's head in, full beans, foot buried everytime you take it out?
Or are you relatively sympathetic?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I am sympathetic to my car, always warmed, always cooled, no track work etc. The car has done 10k ish miles at 4.25


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Teaboy said:


> Your going to have to except that the biggest contributing factor is Nissan's poor quality control on these critical components.
> 
> I have personally over the years seen 2 bone stock GTR's break rods and know of at least another 2 cases from credible sources.
> 
> ...


From your experience is it the same rod breaking


----------



## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

terry lloyd said:


> From your experience is it the same rod breaking


That’s a bloody good question!!


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

simGTR said:


> So how many miles have you ran that setup?
> Is it a daily driver?
> Do you kick it's head in, full beans, foot buried everytime you take it out?
> Or are you relatively sympathetic?


The car was mapped when 3 months old.. and has been running stage 4 and now stage 5 since 8k miles. So. High power and torque for the last 32k miles 6 years. 

Car is a garage queen, never done more than 3k miles between services. Warmed up and cooled down with out fail. 

Driven hard at times but not tracked..


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

Trevgtr said:


> is it really random luck


Rod failure seems to be random luck multiplied by torque.

We are tuning into an assumed safety margin built into the rods torque capability. The problem with this like I said before is quality control. If just 0.1% of rods don't make the grade and slip throug that means 1 in every 166 GTR's is going to have an engine let go.


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

terry lloyd said:


> From your experience is it the same rod breaking


Now that would be too easy wouldn't it. If it was say rod 3 or 4 everytime you would have people saying: maybe the is a strange harmonic build up in the center of the crank that fatigues the 2 center rods OR maybe the cylinder pressures might be higher on the 2 center cylinders because of the poor air distribution on the OE intake manifold that favours the 2 center cylinders and runs them a little leaner or..............


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Wouldn***8217;t be too dissimilar to Subaru***8217;s as that was always number three that crapped itself, fuelling and heat caused that on the classics I seem to remember


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> Wouldn’t be too dissimilar to Subaru’s as that was always number three that crapped itself, fuelling and heat caused that on the classics I seem to remember


You mean the last one to be fed hot fuel and right next to the read hot up pipe, I can't see that haha


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Teaboy said:


> You mean the last one to be fed hot fuel and right next to the read hot up pipe, I can't see that haha


That’ll be the one lol


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> That’s a bloody good question!!


Just to be 100% clear I have seen all 6 fail at some point with seemingly no favourite amongst them.


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Tony's just been unlucky ...











































... have you seen him?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

True story...... here’s the car being recovered lol


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Mentalist :chuckle:


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Clearly giving passenger rides to members of the cast of Deliverance is bad for engine health


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Pahahaha I did give him some stick, stating that it now looks like we are off to adopt our first child........... karma clearly didn***8217;t like that statement lol


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## Sandy (Jan 16, 2015)

on no I would be hating it  good luck with the repair


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

How can you be that happy when your car's just blown it's engine? Denial? Not sunk in yet? I was well pissed when mine went, and it didnt really hit fully home til the next day! and i was even more pissed off then!



Stealth69 said:


> True story...... here***8217;s the car being recovered lol


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

terry lloyd said:


> From your experience is it the same rod breaking


No! I think after it breaks they have to change it so its always a different one:chairshot


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

dudersvr said:


> No! I think after it breaks they have to change it so its always a different one:chairshot


Could be like triggers broom!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Chronos said:


> How can you be that happy when your car's just blown it's engine? Denial? Not sunk in yet? I was well pissed when mine went, and it didnt really hit fully home til the next day! and i was even more pissed off then!


Because it’s just an engine, I love my car, it is my baby BUT, it’s repairable, it will be back stronger and faster........ plus I have bigger things to worry about, like the voices in my head muha muha lol 

It’s not my only car so it’s not a life changing incident, it would have been if I’d taken a right turn out of my street instead of a left so when all is said and done, nobody dead, car didn’t get smashed to bits........ and it’s not my first rodeo, blown a few performance cars up lol


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Triggers broom! Choked on my drink :thumbsup:


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> It’s not my only car ...


Well, not sure that the Bummer counts ... :middlefinger-smiley


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## ddavej (Jan 10, 2006)

Stealth69 said:


> True story...... here’s the car being recovered lol


Fairplay to you, great attitude and outlook :thumbsup: It's only money and you can always earn some more!!


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## L6DJX (Sep 15, 2017)

Just got mine back after it doing the same thing (4.25, 650torque, WOT, Silverstone)

sorry to hear of your bad luck, but as you say, was kind of inevitable at 4.25...

good luck with the rebuild, youre going to love the car even more once you get it back, i most certainly did
I was just in time for the BHW sunshine. 

When you expect it back do you know?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

nah not got a date yet, haven't decided what I want to do yet in all honesty...... part of me says "go for a solid build and stick with it, you don't need more power, be sensible" and the other half of me says "well now it's in pieces and everything's going to be dropped out just go bonkers"

I'm in no rush, car can sit in the garage until I decide what I'm gonna do, she spends most of her life In the garage so a little bit longer isn't going to hurt her or me lol


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> nah not got a date yet, haven't decided what I want to do yet in all honesty...... part of me says "go for a solid build and stick with it, you don't need more power, be sensible" and the other half of me says "well now it's in pieces and everything's going to be dropped out just go bonkers"


Well the minimum sensible option as you're forced into a rebuild is FORGE uprated rods/pistons and cams if you like

then at least stage 4.25 will then be a breeze for the engine with no hassle!

OR if you're feeling flush, Forged engine / forged gearbox+Clutch / and some cheeky EFR turbos! Zooooooom zooooooom!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Well yeah, the very minimum option is forge build with ARP headstuds etc as per the AC build and then be happy with 4.25 or go balls out, EFR etc etc

Just gotta decide, give the head time to over rule stupidity


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> ... give the head time to over rule stupidity


This could be a problem! :clap:

Plenty of options but also plenty of ways to spend unnecessary money. I was talked out of what I was considering by my tuner and stuck at a forged 4.25 (plenty enough power tbh and I can still hit 180mph+ every week if I so choose). If the turbos ever go, that will be the time for me to add more power but if my whole engine had blown, I may have done the whole lot as a :middlefinger-smiley


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## L6DJX (Sep 15, 2017)

i am sitting back at 4.25, but after driving one with 900hp, i was tempted to go higher, but then realised that i haven't lost a race yet (on a road, up to 70mph of course), apart from to a r34 that literally wiped the floor with me down an A road... 

stage 4.25 is a mighty fast car, and now forged the bottom end it is a safe fast car...but having been on that for 24 months now i keep getting tempted to forge the box and clutch and go to 'silly power'


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

L6DJX said:


> i am sitting back at 4.25, but after driving one with 900hp, i was tempted to go higher, but then realised that i haven't lost a race yet (on a road, up to 70mph of course), apart from to a r34 that literally wiped the floor with me down an A road...
> 
> stage 4.25 is a mighty fast car, and now forged the bottom end it is a safe fast car...but having been on that for 24 months now i keep getting tempted to forge the box and clutch and go to 'silly power'


So I take it Litchfield have raised the torque a wee bit on the forged engine and you can get a bit more power, just the gearbox limitation now..


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## Stu82 (Apr 22, 2018)

OMG...gutted for you.

Good luck on the rebuild


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

L6DJX said:


> Just got mine back after it doing the same thing (4.25, 650torque, WOT, Silverstone)
> 
> sorry to hear of your bad luck, but as you say, was kind of inevitable at 4.25...
> 
> ...


What torque did Litchfield give you on their forged engine? I's your gearbox still standard?


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## Mr.B (Feb 18, 2016)

L6DJX said:


> i am sitting back at 4.25, but after driving one with 900hp, i was tempted to go higher, but then realised that i haven't lost a race yet (on a road, up to 70mph of course), apart from to a r34 that literally wiped the floor with me down an A road...
> 
> stage 4.25 is a mighty fast car, and now forged the bottom end it is a safe fast car...but having been on that for 24 months now i keep getting tempted to forge the box and clutch and go to 'silly power'


You can't have the R34 guys getting away with that...... get that 900BHP build booked in :chuckle:


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

J
U
N


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## Blade1 (Aug 17, 2011)

So what's the market price/ballpark for forged pistons and rods on a GT-R? I am keen to go to stage 4.25 next year due to the rave reviews and obviously would want to make the most of it, but don't want a blown engine either! £3k? £4k?

Stealth - sorry for hijacking your thread and good luck on the rebuild.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

You***8217;re looking at sound 8-10k for a build that is strong enough to hold 1000+ Bhp mate obviously depends on many options and what they find when they pull your engine out lol


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Blade1 said:


> So what's the market price/ballpark for forged pistons and rods on a GT-R? I am keen to go to stage 4.25 next year due to the rave reviews and obviously would want to make the most of it, but don't want a blown engine either! £3k? £4k?
> 
> Stealth - sorry for hijacking your thread and good luck on the rebuild.


see http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/558922-stage-4-5-upgrade-ss-ic.html


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

10K seems like the cost for rods and piston build. If the engine blows and the block is taken out and a few little other things then consider it circa £10k to get back to where you are now. 

I'm using the additional cost of a blown block in my man math calcs for justifying a pro-active build.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

gtr mart said:


> consider it circa £10k to get back to where you are now.
> .


it's a bit more than 10k to fix if it blows chap, you could maybe fix back to stock for just over 10k which would be madness if you're keeping the car, maybe ok if you decide to sell ... BUT if keeping and it blows, always better to just forge it once you're backed into a corner really.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

gtr mart said:


> 10K seems like the cost for rods and piston build. If the engine blows and the block is taken out and a few little other things then consider it circa £10k to get back to where you are now.
> 
> I'm using the additional cost of a blown block in my man math calcs for justifying a pro-active build.


Blown block will likely mean the following need replacing
One or both heads
Block
Girdle
Crank
Rods
Pistons
Oil Pump
Oil cooler 
and may as well do 
Timing chain and gears

Far cheaper to forge a running engine, ask me how I know:thumbsup:


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

dudersvr said:


> Blown block will likely mean the following need replacing
> One or both heads
> Block
> Girdle
> ...


yeah mine also killed the Heads/block/rods/pistons/crank/oil pump/timing chain and gears AND a turbo on the way out too! = one BIG bill! Great to have it back tho once fully forged and much STRONGER!


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

that's exactly what I said. It will cost circa £10k to get back to where you are now if the block goes and a few other things (eg, nothing extra major like a head or all the power steering stuff). 

My figure didn't include the £10k to forge everything.

Of course ontop you would be wise to do the turbos too which are £3k to £10k depending on what you get (thinking normal street suitable turbos)


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Blade1 said:


> So what's the market price/ballpark for forged pistons and rods on a GT-R? I am keen to go to stage 4.25 next year due to the rave reviews and obviously would want to make the most of it, but don't want a blown engine either! £3k? £4k?
> 
> Stealth - sorry for hijacking your thread and good luck on the rebuild.


Seems to be a lot of extra money to go stage 4.25, why not just have a 4.25 plus tuners warranty for around 1.5k extra, assuming your car fits the warranty criteria?


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trevgtr said:


> Seems to be a lot of extra money to go stage 4.25, why not just have a 4.25 plus tuners warranty for around 1.5k extra, assuming your car fits the warranty criteria?


Good point, however the warranty is 1.5k PER YEAR so the ££ will rack up over 2/3/4/5 years PLUS the heartache and pain if the engine blows! believe me!

I'd rather have a working R35 and get it forged if you want stage 1+ with some peace of mind! pay 7-8k to get it forged as its still running ok, and have the option for more power later on as well.

As people have said, even some stock r35's have thrown rods! :nervous: so again i refer to my previous point!


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## L6DJX (Sep 15, 2017)

Mr.B said:


> You can't have the R34 guys getting away with that...... get that 900BHP build booked in :chuckle:


LOLLLL i would, cant afford it atm, i think it is about £20k + labour as it is... Maybe slightly more....


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## L6DJX (Sep 15, 2017)

Chronos said:


> Good point, however the warranty is 1.5k PER YEAR so the ££ will rack up over 2/3/4/5 years PLUS the heartache and pain if the engine blows! believe me!
> 
> I'd rather have a working R35 and get it forged if you want stage 1+ with some peace of mind! pay 7-8k to get it forged as its still running ok, and have the option for more power later on as well.
> 
> As people have said, even some stock r35's have thrown rods! :nervous: so again i refer to my previous point!


Amen sista


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## Blade1 (Aug 17, 2011)

Stealth69 said:


> You’re looking at sound 8-10k for a build that is strong enough to hold 1000+ Bhp mate obviously depends on many options and what they find when they pull your engine out lol


Hmm well I am talking about the cost of pistons/rods just to hold stage 4.25 numbers, nothing as high as 1000bhp. This is also on an intact engine at the time of going 4.25



Trevgtr said:


> Seems to be a lot of extra money to go stage 4.25, why not just have a 4.25 plus tuners warranty for around 1.5k extra, assuming your car fits the warranty criteria?


This is the other option but I am surprised tuners warranty 4.25 on a standard engine given this weakness. I'm also worried tuners may not honour tue warranty even though I've never heard of this and they probably can't deny a claim legally?


Sorry no expert hence the questions.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Or maybe the warrantied 4.25 tunes are reigned in a bit - aka slow


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Does the warranty cover track use on a 4.25? I would doubt it..


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

Or maybe just buy a new car not fanny about with tuning look after it and ditch after the 3 year warranty period.

You are up nearly 100BHP stock from a CBA and given the issues it gives a little more certainty. Just saying


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

vxrcymru said:


> Does the warranty cover track use on a 4.25? I would doubt it..


My understanding is that it does not if the engine blows on track, Dylan. Not sure if you are required to service / check the car before and / or after a track day to keep the road-going warranty intact?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Blade1 said:


> This is the other option but I am surprised tuners warranty 4.25 on a standard engine given this weakness. I'm also worried tuners may not honour tue warranty even though I've never heard of this and they probably can't deny a claim legally?
> 
> 
> Sorry no expert hence the questions.


I don't think the 'weakness' is actually viewed logically, in the same way that on a forum everyone will post up about gearbox issues, that in reality are uncommon. But people read it and get scared because only the negatives are discussed. There are plenty of people at stage 1 - 4.25 unforged that haven't blown an engine. 

I would say if a tuner offers you warranty on a 4.25 they are confident you won't have problems, but if you do I'm certain they will honour the warranty.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trevgtr said:


> I don't think the 'weakness' is actually viewed logically, in the same way that on a forum everyone will post up about gearbox issues, that in reality are uncommon. But people read it and get scared because only the negatives are discussed. There are plenty of people at stage 1 - 4.25 unforged that haven't blown an engine.
> 
> I would say if a tuner offers you warranty on a 4.25 they are confident you won't have problems, but if you do I'm certain they will honour the warranty.


The only way you can offer warranties on tuned cars is by taking so much from x amount of people it counteracts the odd claim that is made.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

dudersvr said:


> The only way you can offer warranties on tuned cars is by taking so much from x amount of people it counteracts the odd claim that is made.


Yeah, it's just an insurance policy, and like any insurance is calculated by the risk.

The price is around £1500, so maybe they expect to pay out on 1 in 10 policies and still make a healthy long term profit?

I actually know someone that has made multi millions from the insurance/warranty business.


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## MR-07-SHA (Jun 17, 2013)

Sorry to hear mate - one good excuse to get closer to those 1000 horses!!!
Been there a few years ago with my Stage 4.25 - came back bigger and better :chuckle: 
If you need any help/advice let me know buddy


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## TurboSam (May 1, 2017)

I've been at stage 4.25 for 2 years now and after a lot of hard driving and 2 track days I was scared with all the horror stories. So I'm going for forged pistons and rods, once opened up the pistons and cylinders looked really good but the rods on closer inspection where bent probably all of them in some way but mainly 2 of them this is the worst and at only 10k miles I'd say stage 4.25 is too much for standard internals.









Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

TurboSam said:


> I've been at stage 4.25 for 2 years now and after a lot of hard driving and 2 track days I was scared with all the horror stories. So I'm going for forged pistons and rods, once opened up the pistons and cylinders looked really good but the rods on closer inspection where bent probably all of them in some way but mainly 2 of them this is the worst and at only 10k miles I'd say stage 4.25 is too much for standard internals.


Wow thanks for the share, that's the FIRST stripped down stage 4.25 we have seen, and it goes along with what i've said all along! rods appear to be getting bent slowly over time in the higher stock engine tunes. Mine lasted 2 years with regular good use. think about it, we are pumping nearly 200lb/ft more torque (nearly 50% more than stock) into these engines and 150bhp over stock!


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Not the first you***8217;ve seen.

I posted my stripped rods on my build thread and mine were all okay at 65k. That***8217;s 7.5 years and 60k at stage 4, 600 lbsft

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/341946-updating-old-favourite-7.html#post5097497


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

TurboSam said:


> I've been at stage 4.25 for 2 years now and after a lot of hard driving and 2 track days I was scared with all the horror stories. So I'm going for forged pistons and rods, once opened up the pistons and cylinders looked really good but the rods on closer inspection where bent probably all of them in some way but mainly 2 of them this is the worst and at only 10k miles I'd say stage 4.25 is too much for standard internals.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Any evidence of damage to the block from that?


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## TurboSam (May 1, 2017)

vxrcymru said:


> Any evidence of damage to the block from that?


No everything looks perfect the cars only done 19k miles total (10k @ 4.25) I'm not even going to re-hone the cylinders as the factory honing is still very prominent.


Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Well got under the car this evening....... found three rather nice holes in the block and a hole In the top of the power steering rack........ if you’re gonna do it, donit proper like lol


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Handful of shit bits


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## Mr.B (Feb 18, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> Well got under the car this evening....... found three rather nice holes in the block and a hole In the top of the power steering rack........ if you’re gonna do it, donit proper like lol


I think we need a leader board on who blows the most holes in the block :chuckle:


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Mr.B said:


> I think we need a leader board on who blows the most holes in the block :chuckle:


Pahahahahahaha amazing idea


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

What are your plans Stealth


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Rebuild but don***8217;t know what yet mate, I***8217;m in no rush because I want to get it built big and proper and then I***8217;ll use the car in anger a lot


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

Hmmm I think I might look into a winter build this year after reading this thread. Hopefully you get your car back up and running soon Stealth


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Cheers buddy, she will be back and solid as a rock, I have every faith and confidence in my tuners. 

Defo look on to a build, might cost a fair few quid but it***8217;s still a lot less than doing it after the fact lol


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

Haha I wish I had the cash to get it done now! 

With a wedding coming up and a new house build it's not going to be easy! If my engine goes my car will become an expensive ornament in my garage for a long time :chuckle:

I was planning on suspension mods and some carbon when it comes off the road in October but I think I will concentrate on the engine now. I think mine has been stage 4.25 for roughly 6k miles so best get it done soon.


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## motors (Mar 14, 2013)

Kieranrob said:


> Haha I wish I had the cash to get it done now!
> 
> With a wedding coming up and a new house build it's not going to be easy! If my engine goes my car will become an expensive ornament in my garage for a long time :chuckle:
> 
> I was planning on suspension mods and some carbon when it comes off the road in October but I think I will concentrate on the engine now. I think mine has been stage 4.25 for roughly 6k miles so best get it done soon.


You can live in a car but you cant drive a house


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

motors said:


> You can live in a car but you cant drive a house


You can get hookers for far less than wedding as well


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## motors (Mar 14, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> You can get hookers for far less than wedding as well


Lol you can also f&ck you car quite easily


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

motors said:


> Lol you can also f&ck you car quite easily


You are one very gifted man, I’d just rattle around in that exhaust lol


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