# Dynoed my GT-R (638hp)



## vanos (Mar 8, 2008)

First of all, I want to thank the EcuTek guys in Sweden (JRM-Racing). Highly recommended!

Also, a big thanks to Ben at GTC. I won't get into how good he is and all that.. You probably already know. Let me just say that we are now up to version *15* of my tune and counting. No additional fees...

So, on to the dyno then.. I dynoed because I wanted to know the difference that downpipes and suction pipes give. So we did a before and after dyno.

Here is the difference: 









After an update to the tune:









651 lb-ft..!! We had a laugh after this pull.. The guys at the shop fetched a spare connecting rod they had and said that they will be waiting for my call. 

I asked Ben to limit boost and this is the final numbers:









MODS:
GTC 3" intakes
GTC suction pipes
ID 1000cc
Coated XS Power downpipes (yes, got them cheap 120$) 
HK Y-pipe
Stock catback
DW65 pumps
E85

btw on this dyno the GT-Rs baseline at 480-490hp.

bonus video: Nissan GT-R GTC E85 vs Porsche 997 Turbo 580 HP - YouTube
this was with stock downpipes and suction pipes.


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## Sinth (Sep 26, 2010)

Bloody hell that's quick.


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## gtrsam (Oct 27, 2005)

Grymt nice  kommer snart att ha samma setup Ben is da man ;-).


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## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

very nice!


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

15 tunes and no additional fees, that is awesome service. 

I wonder if Litchfields will be doing that ?


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

ChuckUK said:


> 15 tunes and no additional fees, that is awesome service.
> 
> I wonder if Litchfields will be doing that ?


I wonder if litchfields need 15 maps to get it right!

Nice numbers, what type of dyno is it?


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Adamantium said:


> I wonder if litchfields need 15 maps to get it right!
> 
> Nice numbers, what type of dyno is it?


 This GT-R has x8 switchable maps for petrol & e85 with various boost, tq levels, throttle settings, changes to launch control specific to what owner gave feedback on. Added each part was added in stages with specific adjustment. There will be more revisions as & when new parts are fitted, if OP wants anything adjusted, winter blend or when new tables become available


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## MarcR35GTR (Oct 17, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> This GT-R has x8 switchable maps for petrol & e85 with various boost, tq levels, throttle settings, changes to launch control specific to what owner gave feedback on. Added each part was added in stages with specific adjustment. There will be more revisions as & when new parts are fitted, if OP wants anything adjusted, winter blend or when new tables become available


How much power difference would E85 account for over Vpower ?


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## vanos (Mar 8, 2008)

Adamantium said:


> I wonder if litchfields need 15 maps to get it right!
> 
> Nice numbers, what type of dyno is it?


Thanks! It's the "braking" type of dyno 
I don't know much about dynos.. You can read about this one, if you want V-tech Tuning English - Dynos


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## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

As I'm very juvenile, I love the flames :smokin: Did it do that before you installed the downpipes?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> I wonder if litchfields need 15 maps to get it right!
> Nice numbers, what type of dyno is it?


While there are a lot of Litchfield fans on here (myself included) I think that's a bit unfair on another tuner personally.

You've got various settings plus adjustments every time an alteration is made to the car.

As far as I remember Litchfield don't bolt a few bits on, stick on a standard map and send you on your way.
When I had my stage 4 done Iain spent about 15 to 20 minutes roaring up and down the road making adjustments. You just don't know how many times things are altered a little to make your car better.

I'd rather have the adjustments and have it spot on that a simple generic map for any car with a set amount of bolt ons. Even if it takes 20 times.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

ChuckUK said:


> 15 tunes and no additional fees, that is awesome service.
> 
> I wonder if Litchfields will be doing that ?


Licho gets it bang on first time, I'd be disapointed if I had to even tinker with it 5 times let alone 15 times. You tell licho what you want to achieve and that's what yourl get and may be even a tad more.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Takamo said:


> Licho gets it bang on first time, I'd be disapointed if I had to even tinker with it 5 times let alone 15 times. You tell licho what you want to achieve and that's what yourl get and may be even a tad more.


Err... why did my car have a road test and adjustments then?

I am not trying to be argumentative here. But this forum is developing some kind of blind faith in Litchfield. They are an amzing company (IMO) but it's not bang on first time. Every car is different, a generic map is not the best option. It needs customising to the car. Fact is you just don't know how many adjustments are needed on the road test. It could only be 5. But go stage 1, 2 and then 4 and you are at 15 already... :nervous:

I'll sit back and wait for the flaming now because I believe Litchfield are a great company, but not godlike. :flame:


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## vanos (Mar 8, 2008)

GTaaaaaarrrrrr! said:


> As I'm very juvenile, I love the flames :smokin: Did it do that before you installed the downpipes?


No  You have to be catless.


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## vanos (Mar 8, 2008)

lol since when did this become a Litchfield thread? Well said CT17


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## vanos (Mar 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> This GT-R has x8 switchable maps for petrol & e85 with various boost, tq levels, throttle settings, changes to launch control specific to what owner gave feedback on. Added each part was added in stages with specific adjustment. There will be more revisions as & when new parts are fitted, if OP wants anything adjusted, winter blend or when new tables become available


:bowdown1: You rock Ben! Version 16 coming up..


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

CT17 said:


> Err... why did my car have a road test and adjustments then?
> 
> I am not trying to be argumentative here. But this forum is developing some kind of blind faith in Litchfield. They are an amzing company (IMO) but it's not bang on first time. Every car is different, a generic map is not the best option. It needs customising to the car. Fact is you just don't know how many adjustments are needed on the road test. It could only be 5. But go stage 1, 2 and then 4 and you are at 15 already... :nervous:
> 
> I'll sit back and wait for the flaming now because I believe Litchfield are a great company, but not godlike. :flame:


Completely agree. All mappers make lots minor changes and tweaks. This is the biggest issue with remote mapping, IMO. 

I do like the flames and will have them soon


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Flames are awesome - I'd love them!

I think people are missing the point that was made after my post, it was clearly stated that the spec continuously changed and so required revision to the map.

Any mapper who knows what he is doing would do the same, so no criticism there.

I'd still like to know what make of dyno this is.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

I remember when the EcuTek cable was released, remote tuning was chargeable.

Litchfield sell stages with their own products, no one has gone to Litchfields yet with an x,y,z setup and asked it to be mapped, your saying that process will be a one hit ? I don't think so. 

I can't see Litchfields doing 15 plus changes to a map for free because the end user suddenly wants to try a different intake. Plus I'd still like to hear from these stage one guys about their custom tune as I stil believe it's a generic map.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

I went to another mapper with my own set of upgrades. He started with a base map and then tweaked. Going back in a couple of weeks with a few more changes


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## vanos (Mar 8, 2008)

I see some of you take it as 15 versions is a bad thing.. 
Let me make it clear that I am extremely happy that Ben gives me time and attension, 
changing/altering maps as soon as I ask to and to the exact specification. 

Why are we up to revision 15?

8 (not 2..) maps having different mods, different ethanol blends, 
different launch rpms, cobb updates and me logging runs every now and then and busting Ben's b*lls telling him to lean out here, add timing there.. 
I want it perfect for my climate.

Version 16: +BOTL
Version 17: +Cranking tables

..and so on. All this without asking for a single dime. But hey, if you like your tuner to spend 5 minutes with your car and tell you it's "bang on".. fine with me


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## ifty (Jul 27, 2005)

I've had cars tuned by various tuners over the years, Ben is on top of my list, the service he offers is unrivalled in my opinion.


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

It's a given a totally stock or simply y-pipe / exhaust mods GT-R will require little work / calibration when the homework has already been done on a good UK fuel map, mild boost increase is what it is with set wastegate opening, similar no one maps to edge of knock but already knows when's too much. Cam timing is nailed. MAF tables don't need top be touched for oem airboxes and neither does injector scaling, so for the most part a close to generic map will be close and not need a ton of adjustments when you are limited to oem injectors

on the other hand Chubby's SD GT-R needed quite alot of set up and generally small revisions/check up either way in ve whenever he's in say holland, Germany, freezing cold bedford in march or most likely while at brands, he'll / i'll want something tweeked


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Seems to me some people are comparing apples and pears in this thread.:thumbsup:


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

CT17 said:


> Err... why did my car have a road test and adjustments then?
> 
> I am not trying to be argumentative here. But this forum is developing some kind of blind faith in Litchfield. They are an amzing company (IMO) but it's not bang on first time. Every car is different, a generic map is not the best option. It needs customising to the car. Fact is you just don't know how many adjustments are needed on the road test. It could only be 5. But go stage 1, 2 and then 4 and you are at 15 already... :nervous:
> 
> I'll sit back and wait for the flaming now because I believe Litchfield are a great company, but not godlike. :flame:


Horses for courses as they say but if anyone can Licho Can :chuckle:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

with respect, WTF has Litchfields got to do with this thread?

It's just crapping for the sake of it. The OP is happy with his tune from a company with a massive reputation on here. don't see why you feel the need to stir the pot?


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> with respect, WTF has Litchfields got to do with this thread?
> 
> It's just crapping for the sake of it. The OP is happy with his tune from a company with a massive reputation on here. don't see why you feel the need to stir the pot?


Lichfields personally has nothing to do with this thread but we are just stating a fact about the wizard when it comes to GTRs and mapping that's he's very very good :chuckle:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

and so is Ben? Whats your point?


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## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

Mookistar said:


> with respect, WTF has Litchfields got to do with this thread?
> 
> It's just crapping for the sake of it. The OP is happy with his tune from a company with a massive reputation on here. don't see why you feel the need to stir the pot?


Well actually the reason Litchfields was mentioned was because a poster wanted to know if Litch would provide 15 retunes/remaps for free as Ben appears to have done. The implication being if Litch don't do this, they are somehow inferior so I see it as fairly correct to also state that Litchfield are excellent tuners and I don't expect to see them providing 15 tunes for free (or any other tuner for that matter). 

If a tuner wants to spend their time doing multiple free maps when new parts are on the car, fair play and very good for them but that doesn't make anyone else less good. I also don't see it as a very sustainable business plan for said mapper if customers go in expecting free maps forever more when x or y part is installed.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

It's not 15 maps on 15 different days though is it.

I would expect any mapper, if you've booked them for the day, to help you have a play with this and that until you had got what you wanted. That's normal in fact. 

It's not the same as buying a package from a tuner with a stated expected output. Apples and pears again!


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

**** me the ignorance on here annoys the crap out of me.

He's had 15 tunes over etuning. I suppose you fanboys think litchos do one flash and that's it all done. No road or load testing with adjustments then? Don't make me laugh.


It beggars belief that anyone can see anything bad in Bennoffering successive free maps to his customers.

Ben has just done more tuning for me as I have a new exhaust and that'll be number 6 or 7 given I've added intakes a while ago. Each time for free an within 24 hours notice.

Stop the ignorant fanboi shit it makes you look foolish.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

:bowdown1::bowdown1::bowdown1::bowdown1:


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## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

tonigmr2 said:


> It's not 15 maps on 15 different days though is it.
> 
> I would expect any mapper, if you've booked them for the day, to help you have a play with this and that until you had got what you wanted. That's normal in fact.
> 
> It's not the same as buying a package from a tuner with a stated expected output. Apples and pears again!


Of course it is normal. When I booked Roush to map my Noble, they took 8 hours trying different parts/configs until they got it right and I was happy. The fee was a set fee. 

Again, the implication here is that the user is on different versions of tune now (+?added parts) and Ben continues to help him with remaps/tweaks. Hence why the question was asked about Litch. So I'm not saying we aren't comparing apples and pears, but that is how it started. Having said all this, I think that Ecutek customers with a pro ecu cable will get remote mapping advice and tweaks by Litch anyway.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Let's agree to disagree they are both highly respected mappers/tuners and rite fully so, they have both put lots of ear to eat grins on our faces.... Cheers guys


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## vex_sb (Oct 22, 2008)

Ben rocks

Main thing is - after he says it's done - it's really done. Car's are kicking ass with more than 30 000 miles mapped :thumbsup:

Everything else is irrelevant :blahblah:


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

vex_sb said:


> Ben rocks
> 
> Main thing is - after he says it's done - it's really done. Car's are kicking ass with more than 30 000 miles mapped :thumbsup:
> 
> Everything else is irrelevant :blahblah:


They are both very knowledgeable guys and like I said before horses for courses everybody has different views and likes, main thing is we all got the worlds best super car :smokin:


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## *MAGIC* (Oct 21, 2009)

Awesome.


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## Lofvis (Nov 19, 2010)

Nice Vanos!!

I will be going with similar setup up in Aug, Ben will E-tune it for me  and Perra will do the installation of all the parts. ( Ben keep those intakes in stock for me  )

14th of Aug is the day we will see what mine can do on V-power. E85 will have to wait for 2013 if I get it at all.


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## vanos (Mar 8, 2008)

Lofvis said:


> Nice Vanos!!
> 
> I will be going with similar setup up in Aug, Ben will E-tune it for me  and Perra will do the installation of all the parts. ( Ben keep those intakes in stock for me  )
> 
> 14th of Aug is the day we will see what mine can do on V-power. E85 will have to wait for 2013 if I get it at all.


Thank you Lofvis.

That's great! What part is different from my setup? I'm sure you will be satisfied... Perra is good 

You have to come to Björkvik so we can compare our cars, it will be fun!
And you get to slaughter a few porsches too 

Let me advise you though, to not run on v-power.. In Sweden, since ST-1 bought Shell, they have changed v-power, lowering to ~98,2 RON.. Also added 5% ethanol.
Ordinary pump gas has ~98.5 RON and is also 40 öre cheaper.


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## gtrsam (Oct 27, 2005)

You can try to slaughter my beetle  then you will be in for nasty suprise.
I have all the parts now to start modding but will 1000 cc injectors be sufficent ...i have seen somewhere that they are a little small. Maybe i should buy a set 2000 cc stright away since i know that i will change turbos soon probably.



vanos said:


> Thank you Lofvis.
> 
> That's great! What part is different from my setup? I'm sure you will be satisfied... Perra is good
> 
> ...


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## gtrsam (Oct 27, 2005)

+1 Well said.



charles charlie said:


> **** me the ignorance on here annoys the crap out of me.
> 
> He's had 15 tunes over etuning. I suppose you fanboys think litchos do one flash and that's it all done. No road or load testing with adjustments then? Don't make me laugh.
> 
> ...


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

well said Charles.

+1 for Ben from me. has given nothing but brilliant service and advice..... car drives superb.

waiting now for injectors and intakes and then i will be going back to Ben for the re-tune.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

When was the last time either of them live mapped?


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## vanos (Mar 8, 2008)

gtrsam said:


> You can try to slaughter my beetle  then you will be in for nasty suprise.
> I have all the parts now to start modding but will 1000 cc injectors be sufficent ...i have seen somewhere that they are a little small. Maybe i should buy a set 2000 cc stright away since i know that i will change turbos soon probably.


It would be great if you could come. With your GT-R ofcourse..  

If you know you will change turbos, go for ID2000. Otherwise, I would opt for SIR 1150cc..


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

matt j said:


> When was the last time either of them live mapped?


If you are referring to Ben, he's spent much of the last 3 years flying around the world mapping GTR's with a whole host of differing intakes/injectors/pumps/turbos/exhausts etc etc etc, and in widely different climates.

I think it's fair to say he's seen pretty much seen all there is to see on an R35 and mapped it.

Not sure how much more experience one would need to satisfy some around here.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Cool, So by that reckoning Ben or Iain are happy to map any car on any ECU?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

matt j said:


> Cool, So by that reckoning Ben or Iain are happy to map any car on any ECU?


If you have a specific tuning question I'd always suggest asking them yourself as I assume from your question that you mean tuning across different GTRs, R32 up to R35.

Personally I'd want a platform specific tuner working on my car i.e. if I own an R34, I'd want someone who has plenty of experience on that platform, the same for an R35.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

I'm not questioning their experience of the 35 but to call them 'mappers' is somewhat misleading.

Like you say though Charlie, I went with Dave Rowe to map my motec as that's what he specialises in, difference is though, he's a mapper and can map any car on any platform from my understanding.


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## Lofvis (Nov 19, 2010)

vanos said:


> Thank you Lofvis.
> 
> That's great! What part is different from my setup? I'm sure you will be satisfied... Perra is good
> 
> ...


Ok didn't know that shell been bought will have to look that up might need to check were all the E85 pumps are in my area 

There has been so much trouble getting my new car but finally it's in Sweden awaiting my arrival from work.

I'll will be going with the following:
AMS DP
Cobb catted MP
SIR 1150cc
SIR fuelpumps
GTC intakes + Etune from Ben
Stock cat-back
GFB BOV (maybe, will be running like 90 rec / 10 vent)

I will not be running a dyno check on how much I have stock.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

matt j said:


> I'm not questioning their experience of the 35 but to call them 'mappers' is somewhat misleading.
> 
> Like you say though Charlie, I went with Dave Rowe to map my motec as that's what he specialises in, difference is though, he's a mapper and can map any car on any platform from my understanding.


Contradiction in terms.

I wouldnt take my R35 to someone who is a "mapper" with no experience in tuning the VR38 platform.

Can Dave map my missus's Evoque, or my mate's RS Focus? Would I want him to??

Platform experience is the point.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

I'd look up who he is before talking crap mate


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

matt j said:


> I'd look up who he is before talking crap mate


I know exactly who he is Matt, and I still wouldnt want him tuning my R35 given his lack of experience on that platform.

He has a wealth of experience on many platforms, but as far as I'm aware he hasnt mapped any R35s. Does he know the safest level of torque for a VR38 or shall we just see what happens? Can he advise on which injectors idle best, or whether the intakes I've installed are causing issues when he starts to map? All of these type of questions have been raised on the R35 over the last 3-4 years and anyone who has been tuning them for that time should know where to safely tread without putting my car at risk.

Dave has Ecutek at his disposal and yes, he may be able to map an R35 with that but it boils down to personal preference.

I'd rather have someone who has tuned 100s of differing R35s do mine rather than somebody who has little experience of that platform, regardless of their background on others.

I'd also expect Dave to be professional enough to tell me that he hasnt done many and am I comfortable with him tuning a car whose weak points he may know little about. 

Crap indeed.


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

come on guys, who's the best is pub talk.

don't know why the comparisons. another way to look at it is there are three young British guys, using the latest tools, mapping a ton of GT-R's around the world & UK and we get along

yes AccessPORT can live map. live trace. But If Nikos wanted me to come to Sweden i'd have to have turned it down due to current commitments

Very busy & Happy to specialise in the new gen stuff, R35 and BMW currently


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Ben, SVM love you ... Yes you go out your way to get results, 24/7 ..Take today 2x SVM cars tuned by your goodself took top honors,as the fastest R35s in the country went head to head...I drive major conversions daily and i have driven many other's , No issue. Ben is top of his game, even against the like of syvec,ecutek as we have seen today....
From 600bhp to over 1200bhp ben your a marvel to the GTR comunity. Respect.
kk


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## *MrB* (Dec 2, 2009)

Takamo said:


> Licho gets it bang on first time, I'd be disapointed if I had to even tinker with it 5 times let alone 15 times. You tell licho what you want to achieve and that's what yourl get and may be even a tad more.


Iain tweaked my stage 1 map 3 times from memory to fine tune it and extract as much as was safe to do so


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

charles charlie said:


> He has a wealth of experience on many platforms, but as far as I'm aware he hasnt mapped any R35s. Does he know the safest level of torque for a VR38 or shall we just see what happens? Can he advise on which injectors idle best, or whether the intakes I've installed are causing issues when he starts to map? All of these type of questions have been raised on the R35 over the last 3-4 years and anyone who has been tuning them for that time should know where to safely tread without putting my car at risk.


No idea if Dave has mapped any R35's tbh fella.

If you're using the services of a mapper then I'm guessing it's because you've modified your car. I'll also take a guess that like the average Joe, you've used the services of a tuner who knows the limits of certain components - there in lies the responsibility of the tuner, the mapper will do what his title implies, he'll map the engine within safe parameters given his extensive experience of engines and monitoring.

So this one time, I had my BMW X5 remapped; I took it to this garage and they drove it round the block and took a datalog and then emailed it away. 30 minutes later, the new map was emailed back, installed on the car and then 'proven' via test drive. Does that make the garage a mapper too?



charles charlie said:


> Crap indeed.


Yes crap, you're trying to compare apples to oranges; in my opinion of course.
You sure your interpretation of mapper and mine aren't different? 



[email protected] said:


> come on guys, who's the best is pub talk.


Exactly Ben, besides which, I haven't forgotten you ate my sushi! (ok, it just tasted like raw fish to me so you were welcome to it mate!) :chuckle:


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

matt j said:


> You sure your interpretation of mapper and mine aren't different?


Only if by that you mean you are being pedantic in saying that Ben or Iain cannot be called "mappers" because they specialise in certain specific platforms.

Ben and Iain are mappers by any definition you wish to use. They don't email anything off to someone else (as per your pointless X5 analogy as that garage didn't map anything, just flashed the ECU remap created by someone else) as they both analyse data logs or real time data collected from the vehicle and adjust the map accordingly until they're happy based on their own judgement and knowledge. Both the Cobb Accesstuner and Ecutek Racerom software used by Ben and Iain require substantial understanding of engine dynamics to map successfully.

That's mapping in my book and most other people's too.

And given youve read Bens thread from the Pod, what would you call his work at the Pod today if it isn't mapping?


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

opcorn:


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Hey Charlie, I know how to loop tune Honeywell 3 term PID control safely, even cascade control with variable algorithms because it has inbuilt safety features that won't allow you to **** up, does that make me a control systems engineer; would I be able to do the same on ABB or Delta V?
Same principle, just a different industry.

Sorry, couldn't tell from previous posts but Ben/Iain sit and tune the cars with det cans, lambda sensor etc right, listening to the engine and understanding the monitoring sensors feedback etc, not purely adjusting settings on a hand held comms unit within safe parameters already defined by the OEM on the ECU? Or another way to put it, the ECU would allow the user to input a detrimental setpoint, overwriting the safety margin already stored causing Det? If so, then yeah, to a degree I agree they're mapping the ECU, are they mappers though...

It seems to me with the R35, in the valley of the blind, the one eyed man is king.


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## Gavinsan (May 28, 2012)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> opcorn:


++1


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

matt j said:


> Hey Charlie, I know how to loop tune Honeywell 3 term PID control safely, even cascade control with variable algorithms because it has inbuilt safety features that won't allow you to **** up, does that make me a control systems engineer; would I be able to do the same on ABB or Delta V?
> Same principle, just a different industry.
> 
> Sorry, couldn't tell from previous posts but Ben/Iain sit and tune the cars with det cans, lamda sensor etc right, listening to the engine and understanding the monitoring sensors feedback etc, not purely adjusting settings on a hand held comms unit within safe parameters already defined by the OEM on the ECU? Or another way to put it, the ECU would allow the user to input a detrimental setpoint, overwriting the safety margin already stored causing Det? If so, then yeah, to a degree I agree they're mapping the ECU, are they mappers though...
> ...


Mate you came to this thread and your opening post is 

"When was the last time either of them live mapped?"

on a thread about a guy's thanks for some great service he received.

You then take off on some personal crusade to defend the honour of the true ECU mapper who is found with a det can attached permanently to his ear.

Well in the valley of the R35, cars are being tuned and mapped to extraordinary levels of power and reliability without those tools all over the world whether you like it or not.

R35 ECU mapping has moved on, time to catch up with us one eyed folks who don't know what we are talking about.

The OEM ECU has been heavily rewritten by Cobb/Ecutek such that we have completely different logic for many things (wastegate duty is one example) so mapping isn't just altering some stock table values. Their software allows mapping of engines with vastly different parts to OEM. And not a det can in sight. And yes you can get it very wrong with Cobb/Ecutek and **** things up big time hence why I for one only trust somebody who has plenty of experience of that platform.

Again I think you clearly misunderstand what Cobb/Ecutek custom tuning involves and seem to believe its some sort of easy click and point software. Both are very powerful and damaging in the wrong hands and have moved the game forward for stock ECU mapping.

Now Syvecs is a different story however....


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

I think the end results would be what counted for me, not how they were arrived at. For what it's worth.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

[PinchOfSalt]



charles charlie said:


> Mate you came to this thread and your opening post is
> 
> "When was the last time either of them live mapped?"
> 
> on a thread about a guy's thanks for some great service he received.


Yes, that's because it was a tongue in cheek question but I was interested to see if they were doing live mapping as well.



charles charlie said:


> You then take off on some personal crusade to defend the honour of the true ECU mapper who is found with a det can attached permanently to his ear.


Funny thing is, your comment was along the lines of me contradicting myself when I stated that "I'm not questioning their experience of the 35 but to call them 'mappers' is somewhat misleading." I still maintain that they are amongst the most influential and knowledgeable people in the industry at present.

On the flip side, you're on a personal mission to defend Ben when there's no real reason for you to do so, I'm sure he can answer any questions without you backing him up?

As I'm by no means an expert, what happens if the knock sensor fails to detect detonation? Them cans sure would come in handy then.



charles charlie said:


> Well in the valley of the R35, cars are being tuned and mapped to extraordinary levels of power and reliability without those tools all over the world whether you like it or not.
> 
> R35 ECU mapping has moved on, time to catch up with us one eyed folks who don't know what we are talking about.


There's that defensive mode again, I never said you didn't know what you're talking about  Most industries are moving to plug and play technology, no reason the motor industry should remain behind.



charles charlie said:


> The OEM ECU has been heavily rewritten by Cobb/Ecutek such that we have completely different logic for many things (wastegate duty is one example) so mapping isn't just altering some stock table values. Their software allows mapping of engines with vastly different parts to OEM. And not a det can in sight. And yes you can get it very wrong with Cobb/Ecutek and **** things up big time hence why I for one only trust somebody who has plenty of experience of that platform.


What was that about contradiction...
You just want someone to change a few of the settings who's got a lot of experience in doing that, not proper mapping lol 



charles charlie said:


> Again I think you clearly misunderstand what Cobb/Ecutek custom tuning involves and seem to believe its some sort of easy click and point software. Both are very powerful and damaging in the wrong hands and have moved the game forward for stock ECU mapping.


I don't think I misunderstand what it involves at all, what I do think is that the credit is with Cobb/Ecutek and not the individuals playing with the comms device in this instance.



charles charlie said:


> Now Syvecs is a different story however....


Agreed, proper ECU and mapper required hence why some shy away 

So Ben, want to map my Motec next week mate as Dave's away for a week but I'd like to get a run or 2 in before the weekend mate??? :smoking:

All joking aside;
Full credit to them, Like Tazz says, they're definitely getting the desired results so ultimate kudos for that :bowdown1:

[/PinchOfSalt]


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## vanos (Mar 8, 2008)

matt j said:


> Agreed, proper ECU and mapper required hence why some shy away


LOL.. Yes, the OEM ECU is shit... Let's yank it out and install a "proper" one instead


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

vanos said:


> LOL.. Yes, the OEM ECU is shit... Let's yank it out and install a "proper" one instead


Nobody said it was shit, that would just be childish...

It does have its limitations though and one word that the OEM can't compete with at the moment is; functionality


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Horses for courses guys stop the arguing, whoever your happy with that's all good, if I speak highly of Lichfields it's because I'm happy with his service and reputation and pricing. If I were to get my 33 or 32 mapping done I would use RB motorsport they are great guys, honest and rod knows his stuff and wouldn't lead astray and bullsh*t ya to make you spend unecessary money. I've heard good stuff about Ben also but haven't had any dealings with him myself yet.


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

matt, I don't like sushi either, but on some of the rest I disagree.

However, I do share with Ben an ethos of mapping in that I stick carefully to what I know. Having mapped OEM and aftermarket ECUs on various cars over the years, I only take on one engine on one engine management at a time and get to really know and develop it over a few years. I will pick and choose what I do depending on what I have time for and what interests me, and if I haven't done a platform recently on that particular engine management I wouldn't be too keen as I immerse myself in one engine and one engine management for a few years to really get to know it. This is the flip side to my day job where I am a generalist. Generalist and specialist have their flexibilities and advantages and both have their place.

In the same way, criticising a mapper that doesn't have to wire in an ECU and attach necessary sensors to tune it plus maybe changing a few triggers for resolution or compatibility, as well as write a map from scratch just to start/idle/cruise the car is misguided IMHO. You could take my approach to the R35 OEM ECU which has rubbed off on Ben and say I'm not capable of original thought in "mapping" in the sense you define it. In so doing you would neglect to realise I rewrote the control strategies for the boost control, airflow estimation and map switching on the back of work I did on other platforms in hardware and software, taking the best of the experience of mapping other people's PID routines for example as well as engineering my own.

I don't find any special mystery to mapping a standalone, but unless you have good base maps provided or from previous experience you just have more boring stuff to do before you can work on performance. Is this the point you're trying to make? What methods have you used to tune the R35 and what did you find?

The standalones on the GTR still have their worth to prove IMHO, especially to the majority of users. Their features are of interest in some applications, but the performance and reliability results are awaited, and they have some justification of their price required. The main limitation on GTRs is street legal tyres IMHO, not ECUs.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

thistle said:


> You could take my approach to the R35 OEM ECU which has rubbed off on Ben and say I'm not capable of original thought in "mapping" in the sense you define it. In so doing you would neglect to realise I rewrote the control strategies for the boost control, airflow estimation and map switching on the back of work I did on other platforms in hardware and software, taking the best of the experience of mapping other people's PID routines for example as well as engineering my own.


That answers everything for me mate :bowdown1:


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