# V~Power or Tesco Momentum - 2017



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Hi,

The old debate, brought back for 2017, which do you prefer for your GTR and why?

I've tried both, and the only difference I've noticed, is the exhaust seems to burble a bit more with vpower... power feels the same on both...

So on this basis, I've chosen Tesco Momentum, as due to our many petrol pitstops haha, Momentum is about 10 per litre cheaper than Vpower, so I'm getting more smiles per miles! 

Chron


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

I'll use either, but there's no option for that on the poll


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trevgtr said:


> I'll use either, but there's no option for that on the poll


BUT why use either? Why not just use momentum as its cheaper? = more smiles per miles .... and not use vpower at all.


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## idj-uk (Aug 3, 2016)

I use V-Power as I seemed to get considerably better mpg from it after as near damn it back to back test with same journey. 
Both worked out about the same price £/per mile so it means I fill up less using V-Power.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

V-power in preference, Momentum if it's not available wherever I am.

I recorded knock with Momentum on track days and none with v-power. These were days when I arrived with a full tank of one then deliberately filled up from practically empty with the other. Same conditions through the day (air temps, laps done etc)

A significant issue with Momentum is it regularly has a higher ethanol content than v-power and ethanol absorbs lots of water over time.

I believe Tesco don't sell much of it at each station (have you noticed how long sometimes the pumps take to get going?) and absorbed water lowers the RON of the fuel.

That's my thinking on why I've gotten more knock from Momentum every time I've logged my car under decent load.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

vpower because its the closest.


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## roscop123 (Jan 12, 2017)

Momentum as its within 5 miles...closest v power is 15 miles away


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Always V power unless I'm desperate.. 

Why, I'm a snob and don't like super saver supermarket fuel.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Chronos said:


> BUT why use either? Why not just use momentum as its cheaper? = more smiles per miles .... and not use vpower at all.


10 miles to the north is my nearest Momentum, 10 miles to the south is my nearest V power. I put in which ever I'm closest to at the time


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## shavermcspud (Oct 6, 2015)

I use either, although I think there is more soot from the Tesco fuel.


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## alexmallia (Feb 3, 2017)

I got told by tuner few years back he recommends v power because it's a consistent octane of fuel where as Tesco and bp used to change a lot and when he was mapping and setting up cars v power was the better one so I will only use shell as I want the best for my engines 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I'll also add that I'm not convinced by the "added detergents" they oversell as their USPs.

My block was dismantled and this was the result after 65k of having been driven on 75% V-Power, 25% Momentum. Never anything less than 99....










Given very very few drivers ever see the inside of their engine block it's an easy claim to make without it ever being challenged...


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## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

V Power as its 5 mins away. On a side note they only have 1 pump and its first on the right with normal pumps 2nd on the right. 

Several times I have had cars behind me and I have stopped to put fuel in and they get arsey because I havent moved forward to the 2nd pump stopping them from filling up. Stupid Garage design!!


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## slapshot (Jan 30, 2016)

V-Power Nitro+ for me. Momentum 99 sounds like a laxative for senior citizens.


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## HUGHS1E (Jan 20, 2015)

More power on tesco but the economy is night and day, goes much further on shell


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## WoREoD (Apr 27, 2008)

I use Momentum all the time because I don't trust Shell formulations. I can remember at least two occasions in the last forty years when their premium product has been proved to caused significant damage to engines and compensation has had to be paid out.

But then I'm old and have a long memory.... (not so much short memory though)


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

WoREoD said:


> I use Momentum all the time because I don't trust Shell formulations. I can remember at least two occasions in the last forty years when their premium product has been proved to caused significant damage to engines and compensation has had to be paid out.
> 
> But then I'm old and have a long memory.... (not so much short memory though)


The only event I can recall is the Formula Shell issues of the '80s.

High sulphur additives removed carbonised deposits off valves and valve seats of Vauxhall engines in only Denmark, Norway, Malaysia and the UK strangely.

Took them a year to work out it was this doing the damage.

What was the other time?


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## WoREoD (Apr 27, 2008)

Your testing my memory now... I think its was in the early 70s during my Rallying period so possibly 72 or 73. Affected a much wider spectrum of cars but details elude me...

Was it at the time Shell was an exclusive fuel provider to Ferrari F1 and the fuel at the pump claimed to be the same formulation? Or was that the 80s one?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

The only other She'll related story I remember is the false advertising over "Fuelsave" which was no better than bog standard unleaded.

They've had Formula, Optimax, etcetc etc.

The usual corporate Bullshit of marketing over product developmentz


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I've never noticed any difference between the two.
In an R35 or a highly tuned Skyline.


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

Shell V-Power again for the reason of Tesco having higher ethanol content as validate on my flex fuel sensor on my previous Supra. And always got knock when running Momentum, trip out to shell didn't change a single thing and it was fine in the afternoon.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

A guy on the 911 tests fuels as part of his job (something to do with motorbike racing in a superstock type class) not just for power they examine all engine parts and exhausts etc as well as power and the ONLY fuel he will put in his 996 turbo is (by choice) Momentum !!!!! Im sure it was Ian Litchfield who I was discussing just this with who said that they get most power on 'some' momentum cars with V power being most repeatable.
I only use momentum by choice or 102 in Germany.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

I use Momentum because its cheaper and get club card points - Is there something bad about it having higher ethanol content ?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

terry lloyd said:


> I use Momentum because its cheaper and get club card points - Is there something bad about it having higher ethanol content ?


Read my previous post re water absorption and lowering RON


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## snuffy (Mar 26, 2014)

WoREoD said:


> I use Momentum all the time because I don't trust Shell formulations. I can remember at least two occasions in the last forty years when their premium product has been proved to caused significant damage to engines and compensation has had to be paid out.
> 
> But then I'm old and have a long memory.... (not so much short memory though)


Not that long ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_Kingdom_petrol_contamination


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## Sam McGoo (Dec 30, 2015)

Tesco 99 - Because I've used it since 2004 in performance/tuned cars and never had any issues, It's closer, cheaper and I get enough club card points from it to pay for the top whack RAC cover for the family. Win Win


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## Jonesy (Feb 10, 2017)

Momentum- simply because there are no shell garages on the Isle of Wight.


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## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

I have both within 3 miles, the difference is very noticeable with V-Power a much smoother and powerful delivery.


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## WoREoD (Apr 27, 2008)

snuffy said:


> Not that long ?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_Kingdom_petrol_contamination


But that wasn't Momentum which is provided to Tesco by Greenergy.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

davew said:


> I have both within 3 miles, the difference is very noticeable with V-Power a much smoother and powerful delivery.


Thats strange because momentum comes way above V power in the tests an acquaintance does on fuels for performance use.


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## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

dudersvr said:


> Thats strange because momentum comes way above V power in the tests an acquaintance does on fuels for performance use.


Well I can feel it in my pants when Im beaning it.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

davew said:


> Well I can feel it in my pants when Im beaning it.


My guy does loads off track work and says the same re Momentum and also says he sees higher speeds round tracks when comparing.


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## danielhoworth (Feb 6, 2014)

V-power as the shell garage is one minute from my house


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## Lion.evo (Aug 23, 2016)

V Power because it is closer to me


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

I'll put it this way:

Super car manufacturers don't top their production cars up with Tesco's fuel, they use V-Power.

If it was about saving ££££ trust me they would, they just use the best available, which is V-Power.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trev said:


> I'll put it this way:
> 
> Super car manufacturers don't top their production cars up with Tesco's fuel, they use V-Power.
> 
> If it was about saving ££££ trust me they would, they just use the best available, which is V-Power.


I think you will find that Shell have arrangements with supercar companies, I can assure you V Power is definitely NOT the best fuel out there.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Trev said:


> I'll put it this way:
> 
> Super car manufacturers don't top their production cars up with Tesco's fuel, they use V-Power.
> 
> If it was about saving ££££ trust me they would, they just use the best available, which is V-Power.


That would be more about snobbery than the best available.

If Tesco started supplying Shell so that both fuels were identical, snobs would still only use Vpower.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trev said:


> I'll put it this way:
> Super car manufacturers don't top their production cars up with Tesco's fuel, they use V-Power.
> If it was about saving ££££ trust me they would, they just use the best available, which is V-Power.





dudersvr said:


> I think you will find that Shell have arrangements with supercar companies, I can assure you V Power is definitely NOT the best fuel out there.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Chronos said:


>


:runaway::runaway::runaway:


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

dudersvr said:


> I think you will find that Shell have arrangements with supercar companies, I can assure you V Power is definitely NOT the best fuel out there.


Really.

I can use my fuel card at any station, I'm told to use Shell.

Not because of any "agreement" either, it has no interest to my company to use Shell, other than it's the best fuel in the UK to use on our vehicles.

Ferrari on the other hand are a different case, they are a sponsor of theirs.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trev said:


> Ferrari on the other hand are a different case, they are a sponsor of theirs.


Exactly! Just like Pirelli undoubtedly give Porsche a backhander to say 911 drivers have to have N rated tyres that are the same as the same non N rated tyre they make but more expensive.
We all have our favourites for various reasons but having spoken to my guy who tests many diff fuels and has 100's of hours of exhaustive testing all I can say is the LAST fuel I would put in my car is Shell V power.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Out of curiosity I called my pal who does the tests on fuel and asked about this exact thing, he drives a tuned 911 turbo so also has a 'seat of the pants' view as well, this is what he said, the worst fuel in his experience for varying octane is by far V power, it can lose 2-3 points in 2 weeks, the momentum they have never measured below 98 despite the use of ethanol to achieve 99 octane, the shell also to be fair is almost 99 octane WHEN IT IS VERY FRESH, this he tells me is due to the use of aromatics that dont make for a long lasting fuel. His experience of using V power is also surprising, he says his 911 feels more 'zippy' on part throttle on V power (this is also born out in his dyno findings) however when under load (cylinder pressure) the car pulls alarming amounts of timing which it does not do on momentum, the same on NA engines they can run more midrange timing on momentum than V power, he tested a 1 make series 4 pot motor (NA) it arrived with cans of various fueles to test one being V power purchased in Crawley, the motor dynoed at 129 hp, they then tested on another fuel and it lost hp, momentum with same settings ran 129 hp, they used all the V power and for some reason wanted more figures so went and bought V power from a local garage the motor steadily lost power until it got as low as 125 hp, they thought it may have picked up so drained oil to make sure all looked ok and as the oil was clean ran it again with momentum, straight back to 129, back to V power and 125 again, so clearly a dodgy batch, they ended up at 132 on momentum after playing with the timing and 134 with 100 ron elf fuel which is only available on about 5 pumps in the UK.
The guy who really switched him on to momentum is a very well known tuner (Fords) and they have a huge bowser that is full of .........guess it ? Yes Momentum. In short round town the car feels more responsive on V power but round a track it drops speed compared to Momentum.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Cool.

I'll tell McLaren they've got it wrong


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trev said:


> Cool.
> 
> I'll tell McLaren they've got it wrong


Maybe you should, these guys are testing for race teams that need to use a road based fuel, dont shoot the messenger if he doesnt tell you what you want to hear. While your at it tell Ferrari:wavey:


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Thing to remember here guys is that every car firm is here to make money, yes Mclaren may reccomend \V power which when pure is just fine (ish) but what fuel do you think will be in the car at a press launch at a track ? pump Vpower??? yeah right and I suppose you think the cars are all just picked off the production line at random. Another frien was technical director of Toyota worldwide and is now technical director of Fiat and told me exactly what happens with press cars at launches, its all money of course Mclaren, Ferrari must pay Shell to use their name??????? NOT


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Sorry, you're talking utter crap.

McLaren do not get paid to use Shell, neither do they recommend it as they are not a sponsor.

It's just what they use as it's the best fuel available from factory before shipping/selling the cars to customers.

It would make more sense (profit wise) to just stick Tesco crap into the cars at factory, who would know?


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Of course they do


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Funny thing is theres a highstreet fuel that is higher octane and longer lasting than either V power or momentum:flame: And you prob drive past it everyday:runaway:


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

dudersvr said:


> Of course they do


Well, my bosses lie to me then.

I'll take a forum randomer's word over my company's.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trev said:


> Well, my bosses lie to me then.
> 
> I'll take a forum randomer's word over my company's.


You do that, Im very hurt though:chairshot


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

dudersvr said:


> Funny thing is theres a highstreet fuel that is higher octane and longer lasting than either V power or momentum:flame: And you prob drive past it everyday:runaway:


Are talking about BP ultimate ? i say this as this was all i could get on a trip to scotland - strangely i had the accessport logging knock all the time and it did not pick any up , Am sure i read somewhere it has additives to reduce knock


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

No dude but hey V powers the ultimate fuel so it irrelevant :runaway:


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

opcorn:


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## slapshot (Jan 30, 2016)

dudersvr said:


> Funny thing is theres a highstreet fuel that is higher octane and longer lasting than either V power or momentum:flame: And you prob drive past it everyday:runaway:


So, do we have to ring a premium rate number to find out what this fuel is?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

slapshot said:


> So, do we have to ring a premium rate number to find out what this fuel is?


He's already said what it is  Must admit I've never seen it but will now be looking


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

dudersvr said:


> Thing to remember here guys is that every car firm is here to make money, yes Mclaren may reccomend \V power which when pure is just fine (ish) but what fuel do you think will be in the car at a press launch at a track ? pump Vpower??? yeah right and I suppose you think the cars are all just picked off the production line at random. Another frien was technical director of Toyota worldwide and is now technical director of Fiat and told me exactly what happens with press cars at launches, its all money of course Mclaren, Ferrari must pay Shell to use their name??????? NOT


True, and as said earlier there's also a fair bit of snobbery involved. The type of 'Badge Snob' that would not be seen dead in a Nissan will not be putting Momentum in his Ferrari. If exactly the same Momentum was sold to Shell and relabled as Vpower he would use it.


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## WoREoD (Apr 27, 2008)

Trev said:


> Cool.
> 
> I'll tell McLaren they've got it wrong


I take it that we can also tell NissanGB you that you'll be sticking with the Dunlop Runflats as those are the only ones they recommend.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

WoREoD said:


> I take it that we can also tell NissanGB you that you'll be sticking with the Dunlop Runflats as those are the only ones they recommend.


Like I said (a few times now) they don't recommend any fuel, other than highest octane available in your country.

Which readily available in the U.K. is V-Power.


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## WoREoD (Apr 27, 2008)

Trev said:


> Like I said (a few times now) they don't recommend any fuel, other than highest octane available in your country.
> 
> Which readily available in the U.K. is V-Power.


...and Momentum.


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

Well its not is it because BP Ultimate is 102 isn't it? Personally I would not use it as its ridiculously expensive


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## Jayman (Jun 30, 2012)

So what fuel is this higher octane fuel? As far as im aware BP 102 is no longer available. I am also sure I would have spotted a higher octane fuel if i passed it "everyday"
James


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

WoREoD said:


> I take it that we can also tell NissanGB you that you'll be sticking with the Dunlop Runflats as those are the only ones they recommend.


Guess whats on the car at the moment and at any far away trackday, yup runflats:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey: Michelins etc ok for pootling around on the road but I prefer the runflats and 888's as guess what the car was designed for a runflat which has ............................................ a very hard sidewall, so prob why a 888 works well as they have a ........................very hard sidewall.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Jayman said:


> So what fuel is this higher octane fuel? As far as im aware BP 102 is no longer available. I am also sure I would have spotted a higher octane fuel if i passed it "everyday"
> James


Heres the PM I got from my guy who clearly knows nothing

John, Momentum has 5% bio ethanol, Vpower has less than 0.5%. 

The ethanol content can absorb water over time but don't forget that most cars have sealed vents these days. 

I have a curve ball for you to try, I am deadly serious about this, been testing this since the same man who knows, told me; ******........ 

The bloke runs a 500hp turbo Rover V8 in a hillclimb car, no knock sensors, NO knock. He runs the engine dynos for Exxon-Mobil so they test ALL fuels and check their constituents. Their fuel is way over qouted, more like 99, with no ethanol. They achieve the octane without ethanol. 

Seriously mate, I ignored this guy's advice for 18 months, then ran out of Momentum at Anglesey so had to go to the nearest station on fumes, it was ******. No word of a lie, the car jumped from 108 mph up the hill to the hairpin on the international circuit, to 115-117 mph. I was stunned!! No key reset, no nothing. Even the passenger noticed the difference. 

Tested the stuff on the engine brake, slaughters V Power by miles, works in high compression two strokes too. Brilliant for turbo engines. On NA engines, we can run race fuel type ignition advance with no det. 

I have been keeping this to myself for the last two years Grin Give it a try, even better if you can log knock values, see what you think. Honestly, it works just like the guy told me it would. He told me tons of ***** about all the various fuels, much too long for here. 

All I ask is that you don't tell ******** or anybody else about it. Have filled mine up on it today..... Let me know what you think, would be interested in what yours reacts like to the change.

And another

Appreciate keeping it quiet dude, not many would. I have tons of proper tests carried out on the pump fuels, ******* matches or betters RMR 100 race gas, betters Momentum, slaughters V power by a long way (but only our local Vpower, the stuff sold in Cambridge matches our local Momentum) but loses compared to Elf Moto4T Max, by 4hp on 300 NA engine, but that is 102 octane race gas

Hes asked me not to say so out of respect I wont, but as i have already said IF you get a good batch of V Power even he says the car feels nippier on part throttle round town it just does not like cylinder pressure BUT it loses octane points VERY quickly


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

Makes no sense why he would keep it to himself and not share it. Just stupidity if you ask me


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Well bugger me.

All these leading edge performance car manufacturers should have just popped down the local Tesco's.

All those millions of pounds, miles and miles of testing, hot and cold climates and the like - all for nothing.

Some dude in his Rover V8 gains a few magic MPH on a track day when he uses Tesco's fuel. He has all the answers.

Well I'd better talk to Honda tomorrow in preparation for the Chinese GP, gonna need those lost MPH on that long back straight......


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

T2 MSW said:


> Makes no sense why he would keep it to himself and not share it. Just stupidity if you ask me


No mate, the stupidity would be listening to this pish.


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

Trev said:


> Well bugger me.
> 
> Well I'd better talk to Honda tomorrow in preparation for the Chinese GP, gonna need those lost MPH on that long back straight......


Thats it, thats what they are missing and where their 15 kph deficit on the straights is coming from, its all down to the wrong fuel


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

Trev said:


> No mate, the stupidity would be listening to this pish.


Ahahahahaha


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

T2 MSW said:


> Thats it, thats what they are missing and where their 15 kph deficit on the straights is coming from, its all down to the wrong fuel


Got it sussed.

Can't beat a good forum expert


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

Trev said:


> Got it sussed.
> 
> Can't beat a good forum expert


Going slightly off topic so ill wait for the :flame: Its seriously embarrassing for Honda, I don't get how its possible. They have free rain of development, if I was McLaren or Honda the second that engine was bolted together it would be on a dyno running race sims for 24 hours a day till something broke - fix that bit and go again till its bullet proof.

Its just not acceptable to get to testing and find the engine is unreliable, slow and that badly mapped its shakes the wiring loom connector to bits.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

T2 MSW said:


> Going slightly off topic so ill wait for the :flame: Its seriously embarrassing for Honda, I don't get how its possible. They have free rain of development, if I was McLaren or Honda the second that engine was bolted together it would be on a dyno running race sims for 24 hours a day till something broke - fix that bit and go again till its bullet proof.
> 
> Its just not acceptable to get to testing and find the engine is unreliable, slow and that badly mapped its shakes the wiring loom connector to bits.


It's not ideal.


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## smoggy12345 (Aug 4, 2013)

Can I just add my 2cents.

I used to work with an Ex. Volkswagen Master Technician. 

I had a problem with one of my cars in the past....and we got talking about fuels and he said that you shouldn't really religiously stick to one brand as over time the additives can create a film on the valve heads and stop them from seating properly? It's good every now and again to use a different fuel to 'wash' away some of the additives?

I suppose this could affect performance slightly if you werent getting 100% compression? 

Not sure wether to take it with a grain of salt as the guy always was a bit of a crank haha


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trev said:


> Well bugger me.
> 
> All these leading edge performance car manufacturers should have just popped down the local Tesco's.
> 
> ...


Did you not read anything Trev its not momentum allthough thats better than V Power, ok so your boss says use V power, thats fine, what fuel testing have you guys done? Or are you relying on word of mouth.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

T2 MSW said:


> Makes no sense why he would keep it to himself and not share it. Just stupidity if you ask me


Maybe because hes spent 100's of hours testing and doesnt want other competitors and tuners benefitting from his findings, I really dont know.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trev said:


> Got it sussed.
> 
> Can't beat a good forum expert


Im absolutely no expert but I do listen to people who are, my knowledge of fuel stops when it goes in the car. Ive just passed on what ive been told by soomeone whos job it is to test fuels with relation to performance gains, on the subject of Momentum what is your opinion of the fact Ian Litchfield said they got the highest HP on avarage from Momentum cars, this was a conversation we had when he changed my ecutek to version 5 ? Or is he just another forum expert?


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

smoggy12345 said:


> Can I just add my 2cents.
> 
> I used to work with an Ex. Volkswagen Master Technician.
> 
> ...



VW, the emission cheats?


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

dudersvr said:


> Did you not read anything Trev its not momentum allthough thats better than V Power, ok so your boss says use V power, thats fine, what fuel testing have you guys done? Or are you relying on word of mouth.


If I have to explain who McLaren are to you then you really do know jack s**t.

I'm done with this thread now, really can't waste anymore of my life commenting on this thread.

It's embarrassing for you.

*edited* Finally, the award winning engine (M838T V8) wasn't built and run on Tesco fuel.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trev said:


> If I have to explain who McLaren are to you then you really do know jack s**t.
> 
> I'm done with this thread now, really can't waste anymore of my life commenting on this thread.
> 
> It's embarrassing for you.


I know who Mclaren are of course, FFS I use their toothpaste everyday, but its good to know that YOU have done your own independent testing of fuel at Sheldrake, hang on is that a clue as to why you are so animated in a fuel debate Shel.....drake. Its a thread on fuel dude, now ive seen fanbois get animated about tuners , mappers etc but never about fuel, guess ive seen it all now. You dont even read posts or understand irony as in you thought i was saying Mclaren pay to use Shell, no i was intimating that maybe Shell pay Mclaren to say use Shell, after all any super unleaded will work just fine in them as it will most cars so why not cop a bung and say use this, of course we will never know but its not beyond the realms of pisasbolity:nervous: Go chill dude and have a glass of wine


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## 5star (Nov 17, 2014)

Shell is far superior.

1. They've started rolling our digital pumps like below. You can press the slow button or the fast button. And there is a nice animated LCD screen on the handle as it pumps.

2. I can pay with my mobile and I get a VAT receipt emailed straight to me.

3. When I fill up at Shell I can pretend I'm Sebastian Vettel. Which is better than pretending to be a Mum in badly fitted jeans singing Every Little Helps.

Dunno if there is any performance advantage, but the above is enough.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

smoggy12345 said:


> Can I just add my 2cents.
> 
> I used to work with an Ex. Volkswagen Master Technician.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that makes logical sense, it's one of the reasons I like to use both, it's just common sense isn't it?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Trev said:


> VW, the emission cheats?


They just battled bullshit with bullshit, didn't make a blind **** of difference in the real world, but quite probably the ambulance chasing lawyers will have a field day with it and make millions. But how is that relevant to Smoggy's comment?


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## shavermcspud (Oct 6, 2015)

Well that was a heated and interesting read, personally I find my lawnmower runs slightly better on V-Power and get more cuts per gallon on it. 

Did we ever find out what this super fuel was that we drive past every day?


----------



## Prits_88 (Nov 2, 2015)

i use tesco


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

In the interests of fairness, I have found if I go for a few days with maybe a quarter of a tank of vpower sitting around and not being driven, the car feels sluggish. Once I fill up it definitely seems to get a bit of a kick.


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## 5star (Nov 17, 2014)

kindai said:


> In the interests of fairness, I have found if I go for a few days with maybe a quarter of a tank of vpower sitting around and not being driven, the car feels sluggish. Once I fill up it definitely seems to get a bit of a kick.


I find exactly the same. If I need to leave fuel in a car for longer than a few days, I'll use Esso Super+.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

5star said:


> I find exactly the same. If I need to leave fuel in a car for longer than a few days, I'll use Esso Super+.


Why Esso ?


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## Alex C (Aug 10, 2005)

Nearest two Petrol stations to Anglesey (east or west) are both Texaco from memory.


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## 5star (Nov 17, 2014)

terry lloyd said:


> Why Esso ?


I have no logical explanation, but in my head it feels more right to use Esso than BP or Texaco when I'm not using Shell.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

shavermcspud said:


> Well that was a heated and interesting read, personally I find my lawnmower runs slightly better on V-Power





What sort of power are you getting out of your mower and has it been mapped at all?


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## smoggy12345 (Aug 4, 2013)

I tried running mine on used vegitable oil and turps with a splash of dog piss. 

Ran great for about 3mins then chugged and loads of black smoke....won't try that again :rotz:


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

kindai said:


> In the interests of fairness, I have found if I go for a few days with maybe a quarter of a tank of vpower sitting around and not being driven, the car feels sluggish. Once I fill up it definitely seems to get a bit of a kick.



For gods sake dont tell Trev, after all Ferrari use V power in their F1 cars:middlefinger-smiley


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

5star said:


> I find exactly the same. If I need to leave fuel in a car for longer than a few days, I'll use Esso Super+.


Really??? Maybe McLaren drain and refill everyday:rotz::rotz::double-finger:


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

smoggy12345 said:


> I tried running mine on used vegitable oil and turps with a splash of dog piss.
> 
> Ran great for about 3mins then chugged and loads of black smoke....won't try that again :rotz:




Maybe try it in the mower mate but not your car


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

TREG said:


> Maybe try it in the mower mate but not your car


This is the mower on Vpower, listen you can hear the Det :double-finger:


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

dudersvr said:


> This is the mower on Vpower, listen you can hear the Det :double-finger:




Roughly translated from his words at the end he said the splash of dogs piss works Smoggy so you didn't mix it right:rotz:


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## shavermcspud (Oct 6, 2015)

TREG said:


> What sort of power are you getting out of your mower and has it been mapped at all?


Just got it back off the dyno, made 22 BHP, blade horse power.
Has an intake system, uprated spark plug, flexfuel system for mixing the two stroke and its been lowered.










After the new mods and new vtec cams


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## WoREoD (Apr 27, 2008)

shavermcspud said:


> Just got it back off the dyno, made 22 BHP, blade horse power.
> Has an intake system, uprated spark plug, flexfuel system for mixing the two stroke and its been lowered.
> 
> 
> ...


I had one just like that. Mine was lowered too....



... then raised......



....then lowered......


Finally sold the bumpy lawn.


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Lol , I have a ride on mower, i wonder if it can be mapped????


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## snuffy (Mar 26, 2014)

vxrcymru said:


> Lol , I have a ride on mower, i wonder if it can be mapped????


A ride on lawn mower you say ?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Now now, just because he's from Wales...


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## shavermcspud (Oct 6, 2015)

Its all my fault we have gone off on this tangent about lawnmowers so I do apologise.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

shavermcspud said:


> Its all my fault we have gone off on this tangent about lawnmowers so I do apologise.


Noooo we needed to find something that runs well on V power:sadwavey:


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

snuffy said:


> A ride on lawn mower you say ?




To add extra boost just threaten Mint sauce!


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

Am going to be doing the North coast 500 next month and there is a no premium fuel past Inverness so am thinking about using some octane booster anyone else used it and does it work well? Am not really wanting to drive around in 95 map for a couple of hundred miles. Sorry if slightly off topic


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Kieranrob said:


> Am going to be doing the North coast 500 next month and there is a no premium fuel past Inverness so am thinking about using some octane booster anyone else used it and does it work well? Am not really wanting to drive around in 95 map for a couple of hundred miles. Sorry if slightly off topic



Just make sure its MMT based.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

kindai said:


> Just make sure its MMT based.


Weve played with octane boosters before, MMT might increase octane but at the cost of what


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Another friend of mine works as a photographer and he travels with the Moto GP to every meeting covering the races, he is very friendly with the mechanics and has a tuned 996 Turbo, he wanted to see if higher octane fuel gave him a performance gain as he lives in Spain and when it gets very hot the car appears to pull timing and become a little less aggressive. Heres the recipe he was given, Ive serviced his car since he has been using it and plugs were perfect and oil had no strange odours and was not diluted by fuel at all.

1 litre Toluene
1/4 litre Kerosene or 2nd choice diesel 
3cc's hydraulic fluid

Thats for a full tank on a 996, about 65 ltrs from memory


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

I used this in my 911 with GT28 turbos when we were running high boost on super and it picked up a tiny bit of Det if we loaded her up, no Det when using this. One seller does it by the box I think it worked out around £7 a bottle, but ive always found Toluene to do the trick.:squintdan

Lucas 10026 A Real Octane Booster 2 Cans 444ml | eBay


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

dudersvr said:


> I used this in my 911 with GT28 turbos when we were running high boost on super and it picked up a tiny bit of Det if we loaded her up, no Det when using this. One seller does it by the box I think it worked out around £7 a bottle, but ive always found Toluene to do the trick.:squintdan
> 
> Lucas 10026 A Real Octane Booster 2 Cans 444ml | eBay


Cheers mate for the information I had a quick search online and Torco Unleaded accelerator came up as the best octane booster to buy out of 5. Am not sure if it has MMT in it but it does say it doesn't harm catalytic converters.

Torco Unleaded Accelerator | Demon Tweeks


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Kieranrob said:


> Cheers mate for the information I had a quick search online and Torco Unleaded accelerator came up as the best octane booster to buy out of 5. Am not sure if it has MMT in it but it does say it doesn't harm catalytic converters.
> 
> Torco Unleaded Accelerator | Demon Tweeks


Do Mclaren use it??:smokin::middlefinger-smiley:double-finger::blahblah:

If not its rubbish:squintdan:squintdan

BTW the effectiveness of octane booster depends on how the fuel is blended ie what additives.


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## Beillynoy (Aug 25, 2014)

Kieranrob said:


> Am going to be doing the North coast 500 next month and there is a no premium fuel past Inverness so am thinking about using some octane booster anyone else used it and does it work well? Am not really wanting to drive around in 95 map for a couple of hundred miles. Sorry if slightly off topic


There are a few super unleaded outlets beyond Inverness, they're just not the usual culprits. 
For example, Lochbroom Filling Station at Ullapool. 

Try a google maps search on the NC500 area using "petrol station" and call ahead if in doubt. 
If still worried, PM me - I have a clockwise route that includes super unleaded stops (but won't be near my pc until next week, or would have added a link here) 

Neil


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

dudersvr said:


> Do Mclaren use it??:smokin::middlefinger-smiley:double-finger::blahblah:
> 
> If not its rubbish:squintdan:squintdan
> 
> BTW the effectiveness of octane booster depends on how the fuel is blended ie what additives.


Fair enough I will buy a couple of bottles of the Lucas stuff for emergency's if I can't find any Super unleaded :smokin:


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

Beillynoy said:


> There are a few super unleaded outlets beyond Inverness, they're just not the usual culprits.
> For example, Lochbroom Filling Station at Ullapool.
> 
> Try a google maps search on the NC500 area using "petrol station" and call ahead if in doubt.
> ...


Cheers for the info mate am not going for another few weeks yet but if you get the chance ping me that map as that would be really help full :thumbsup:


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## Beillynoy (Aug 25, 2014)

Gleanor seems to be the local purveyor of whizzy petrol. I'll track down that file and upload a link at the earliest opportunity.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Kieranrob said:


> Fair enough I will buy a couple of bottles of the Lucas stuff for emergency's if I can't find any Super unleaded :smokin:


I was taking the p**s (not out of you) the torco is prob quite good ive heard good reports from people who use it, I dont use boosters that much as i prefer C16 for ultimate power.


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## e-charge (Oct 12, 2012)

Does anyone here really believe that a supermarket would spend that extra few pennies for a "premium" fuel which could potentially outperform a product from an established fuel development company like Shell?

They will buy the cheapest fuel they can get their hands on for as cheaply as possible to make as many pennies as possible from the mums with groceries and prams who pop in there after grabbing their weekly shopping - not giving a shit about fuel quality.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is really just kidding themselves.

Also heard too many stories about supermarket fuel being contaminated and causing damage as a result. I'm not prepared to play that game of Russian roulette.

e-charge


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

e-charge said:


> Does anyone here really believe that a supermarket would spend that extra few pennies for a "premium" fuel which could potentially outperform a product from an established fuel development company like Shell?
> 
> They will buy the cheapest fuel they can get their hands on for as cheaply as possible to make as many pennies as possible from the mums with groceries and prams who pop in there after grabbing their weekly shopping - not giving a shit about fuel quality.
> 
> ...


I think you will find that ALL fuel comes out of one pipe and off to various refineries, all I can say is that this is what ive been told by people who actually spend their days testing fuels, I would counter with 'why do Mountune run Momentum in all their turbo competition cars that require a road obtainable fuel'? Why would they not use V power.


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## e-charge (Oct 12, 2012)

dudersvr said:


> I think you will find that ALL fuel comes out of one pipe and off to various refineries, all I can say is that this is what ive been told by people who actually spend their days testing fuels, I would counter with 'why do Mountune run Momentum in all their turbo competition cars that require a road obtainable fuel'? Why would they not use V power.


"ALL fuel" huh? May be overstating that a little there but OK whatever.
So you're suggesting that one company drills and pumps all of the fuel and that same single company refines it and produces the petroleum?
Would you like a few minutes to go away and think about that one?

And to answer your question - wasn't it you who mentioned money and back-handed deals?

There have been a few comments on here from various people with valid points and insight as well as informed opinions but I have to say that you've really been pushing hard some total bollocks.

e-charge


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

I think everyone has a glitch in their product now and again

NOT A WORD ABOUT PAST DISASTERS INVOLVING SHELL WONDER FUEL

Some might think reading Shell’s advertising that nitrogen is a newly discovered chemical element. In fact it was discovered by a Scottish physician in 1772. According to Wikipedia, it is notable for the range of explosively unstable compounds that it can produce. Lets hope that it does not blow up too many engines. I am only half joking.

I remember the launch of another wonder fuel by Shell in 1986, “Formula Shell”, based on new technology and with a scientific image deliberately conjured up by Shell.

There was only one small problem. The new wonder fuel ruined many car engines and it did so on an international basis.

Screen Shot 2013-04-24 at 15.58.00Don’t take my word for it. Read the account given by Keetie Sluyterman, Shell’s paid historian, author of ***145;A History of Royal Dutch Shell, volume 3.***146;

Extracts from pages 204 & 207

To create brand distinctiveness, Shell launched two new brands on the basis of new technology and supported by heavy advertising. Helix motor oil in 1985 and Formula Shell in 1986. The word Formula in the new brand for gasoline was chosen for its scientific connotations. Also, it appeared unchanged in many languages, which was important for international advertising.

In the UK, Formula Shell was launched with the punchline:

***145;From today not all petrol is the same.***146;

The launch of Formula Shell in Europe resulted in higher sales. This early commercial success, however, became qualified when it appeared that in a small number of cars the new gasoline caused inlet values to burn. Negative publicity was inevitable, though the damage occurred in only four countries, Denmark, Norway, Malaysia, and the UK.

It took Shell technical experts in collaboration with the motor manufacturers more than a year to establish the cause of the problem. In the meantime, the Formula Shell brand was withdrawn from a number of markets, including the UK. Once the problem had been identified, the product was reformulated and relaunched, in some markets under a new brand name.

The degree of spin is self-evident — damage in ONLY four countries***133;

And lets not forget that Shell has encountered problems with advertising its wonder fuels and has also supplied contaminated fuel in the USA and Canada


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## e-charge (Oct 12, 2012)

"According to Wikipedia"...oh...well...I bow down to these proven facts obtained from such a reputable and trustworthy source.

e-charge


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

e-charge said:


> Does anyone here really believe that a supermarket would spend that extra few pennies for a "premium" fuel which could potentially outperform a product from an established fuel development company like Shell?
> 
> They will buy the cheapest fuel they can get their hands on for as cheaply as possible to make as many pennies as possible from the mums with groceries and prams who pop in there after grabbing their weekly shopping - not giving a shit about fuel quality.
> 
> ...


I am a bit confused , are you saying its not what Tesco say it is ? Think there will be laws and regulations to make sure it is


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

You can't win Elliott.

This joker and his mate know more than super car manufacturers, plus he seems to have now found Wikipedia.....uh oh....

You can always tell a troll when they make sly digs about you when responding to other people's questions.


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## e-charge (Oct 12, 2012)

What does Tesco tell you that it is?

e-charge


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

That it is a 99 oct performance fuel - not something mums with toddlers doing there shopping would put in their fiestas


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Trev said:


> You can't win Elliott.
> 
> This joker and his mate know more than super car manufacturers, plus he seems to have now found Wikipedia.....uh oh....
> 
> You can always tell a troll when they make sly digs about you when responding to other people's questions.




Take it as a joke mate as he's only pulling your leg and you have both made your points of view of which everyone is aware!!


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

TREG said:


> Take it as a joke mate as he's only pulling your leg and you have both made your points of view of which everyone is aware!!


I never said Tesco wasn't good though, just not as good as V-Power.


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## e-charge (Oct 12, 2012)

But but but...my mate Barry gets 3 more bhp in his Peugeot 106 with Momentum so he must be an expert.

e-charge


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Trev said:


> I never said Tesco wasn't good though, just not as good as V-Power.



Lol it's only a bit of banter-Have you not heard that dog piss is the latest high octane fuel for the 35 and any high powered lawn mowers?! :smokin:


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

TREG said:


> Lol it's only a bit of banter-Have you not heard that dog piss is the latest high octane fuel for the 35 and any high powered lawn mowers?! :smokin:


I'm sure it was.


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## e-charge (Oct 12, 2012)

terry lloyd said:


> That it is a 99 oct performance fuel - not something mums with toddlers doing there shopping would put in their fiestas


Hi Terry

I struggle to find the article but there is a well-written piece out there somewhere which detailed some of the processes through which additives are used to increase the RON of the fuel as well as other tweaks by the petro-chemists. If I manage to locate it I'll post it but one suggestion was that the RON was increased in some lower-quality fuels whereas others had a higher true RON.

In my opinion you're better off trying for yourself and noting the outcome. I noticed an increase in pickup and MPG in a couple of my cars when moving from Momentum to V-Power and I haven't looked back.
There are many similar stories out there too in all different forums for different cars altogether.

Some people are so determined to push their "facts" obtained from what some bloke told them.

e-charge


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

e-charge said:


> "ALL fuel" huh? May be overstating that a little there but OK whatever.
> So you're suggesting that one company drills and pumps all of the fuel and that same single company refines it and produces the petroleum?
> Would you like a few minutes to go away and think about that one?
> 
> ...


That was from a thread on the 911 forum the same as this from someone who works in the Petro-chemical industry, ????


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

e-charge said:


> Hi Terry
> 
> I struggle to find the article but there is a well-written piece out there somewhere which detailed some of the processes through which additives are used to increase the RON of the fuel as well as other tweaks by the petro-chemists. If I manage to locate it I'll post it but one suggestion was that the RON was increased in some lower-quality fuels whereas others had a higher true RON.
> 
> ...


Whos pushing anything?? I dont sell it and dont profit from whatever fuel you use, for all i care you may as well piss in your tank (prob better than V power) or are you another fuel fan boi, all I said is this guy tests fuels as part of his job, you can take notice and have an informed opinion or get a little angry and act like a ****, quite frankly my dear I dont give a damn.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

e-charge said:


> But but but...my mate Barry gets 3 more bhp in his Peugeot 106 with Momentum so he must be an expert.
> 
> e-charge


Im a fuel fan boi who cant see past advertising and gets my knickers in a twist, BTW say hello to Barry:double-finger:


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

e-charge said:


> "According to Wikipedia"...oh...well...I bow down to these proven facts obtained from such a reputable and trustworthy source.
> 
> e-charge


Err sorry no thats not wikipedia and you can google the findings yourself.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trev said:


> You can't win Elliott.
> 
> This joker and his mate know more than super car manufacturers, plus he seems to have now found Wikipedia.....uh oh....
> 
> You can always tell a troll when they make sly digs about you when responding to other people's questions.


No mate you are being a narrow minded **** if you cant provide any information other than McLaren use it so it must be best, like I said the guy that told me does this for a living and ive merely put his findings over many years of research, now had you had a modicum of intelligence and seeing as you work in the industry I would have thought you might have wanted to know a bit more and maybe PM'd me and asked, he would hapilly chat to you and you would be very surprised at what he has to say, but oh no Team Sheldarke clearly cant be wrong or not know something, so come on wonder boy what testing have YOU done to emphatically say V power can make more power than any other fuel on the pump? Apart from the Oh my car feels quicker!! Have you measured DET on V power and then compared with other fuels, have you had the car mapped on V power and then tried other fuels to see a power difference, no oh ok, and im the idiot LOL your a joke pal.

Im quite happy to make a sly dig at you in a response to your comment or to your face BTW


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

dudersvr said:


> like I said the guy that told me does this for a living and ive merely put his findings over many years of research



Are his results available for us to interpret ourselves?

While im not doubting the sincerity of your comments, "friend of a friend" type relayed information is not generally accurate as from the source.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

kindai said:


> Are his results available for us to interpret ourselves?
> 
> While im not doubting the sincerity of your comments, "friend of a friend" type relayed information is not generally accurate as from the source.


He does not participate in forums much or I would ask him to come on and get far more technical than I could possibly try too.
But far from a bloke in a pub he built Martin Finnegans R6 engine and also William Dunlops and mapped both bikes amongst many others, so he is hardly a bloke in a pub.

I will also leave you with this, Shell market their premium fuels predominantly as leaving you a cleaner engine and achieving more MPG rather than outright performance and of course have to have figures to back any claims up. Now where do most normal drivers spend most time throttle wise? NOT 100% open, thats for sure and response at low throttle openings etc is achieved with a fast burning fuel, which in turn is not particularly great when placed under a lot of load, which is why my friend said his ca FEELS MORE RESPONSIVE on V power round town and on part throttle than ANY of the other fuels BUT when on full throttle in say anywhere above 3rd it pulls timing, he says he can feel this in his car (500hp 996 turbo) and tallies with his dyno findings, as he says if you want to get great mileage you cant also get the ability to run big numbers timing wise, there is always a trade off.
Again this is just information and Ive thrown it out there for people to consider and research BUT having owned a Dyno Dynamics 4wd dyno from 2011 to 2016 we saw more power on Momentum than Vpower, my Supra made 1150+ HP on a Rototest Hub Dyno on Momentum with no DET running 2.5 bar boost.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Treg, you're wrong.

It's not banter, it's him acting like a petulant child. 

How very sad.


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Trev said:


> Treg, you're wrong.
> 
> It's not banter, it's him acting like a petulant child.
> 
> How very sad.


Why not provide the evidence he's asked for then Trev?


----------



## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Trev said:


> Treg, you're wrong.
> 
> It's not banter, it's him acting like a petulant child.
> 
> How very sad.


OK Trev, how about a truce :sadwavey: And maybe a discussion, there you go olive branch and all that and after all we are ALL here because we share one passion, the R35


----------



## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Trev said:


> Treg, you're wrong.
> 
> It's not banter, it's him acting like a petulant child.
> 
> How very sad.




Take the truce as it will save me deleting all the crap on this thread


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

e-charge said:


> What does Tesco tell you that it is?
> 
> e-charge


At a minimum Tesco tell you it's BS EN7800 standard compliant, which actually means quite a lot.

It's also regularly tested for this.

I'd also argue that to add a significant sum of additives to a fuel (as shell claim) without altering the RON Value is actually quite a tough thing to do.

Also, what's cheap fuel? All fuel is crude oil put through a fractional distillation process - again it's pretty tough to end up with a significantly different grade of unleaded from this process which is also BS compliant.

The supermarkets just buy wholesale from the refineries, and because they are generally selling more fuel and have a more efficient supply chain that's why they are often cheaper.

As for V-Power vs Momentum, having had the same issue with the pump taking ages to kick in I'd say the theory of momentum hanging around in the tank for longer and absorbing water is probably sound. I still use momentum a my prime fuel though and mapped on it makes excellent power.


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## e-charge (Oct 12, 2012)

borat52 said:


> At a minimum Tesco tell you it's BS EN7800 standard compliant, which actually means quite a lot.
> 
> It's also regularly tested for this.
> 
> ...


A sensible and well-thought out response.
Thanks for your input dude.

e-charge


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## e-charge (Oct 12, 2012)

Mate I copied that from your post. You suggested Wikipedia...not me.

e-charge


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## e-charge (Oct 12, 2012)

And how am I a fuel fan boy? I specifically said that I noticed a performance increase moving from one to another.

That's not being a fan boy - that's utilising a better product.

e-charge


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Who gives a shit, everyone has their chosen fuel for whatever reason, even if it is based on just their bum dyno!!

I use both and don't notice a difference with either, the car was mapped on momentum and always feels strong which ever of the two I put in and it never dets.


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Everyone is getting a bit bored now, can we agree to disagree. I always think things like fuel are so subjective, and different batches thrown into the mix and basically people will never agree. So lets leave it at that should we....:thumbsup:


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## mark r (Feb 17, 2003)

can someone clear things up, on the pump it states (at my local fuel stations) 
shell v-power 97 ron
bp ultimate 98 ron
tesco momentum 99 ron

I've tried all 3, i use momentum when i can as i get less det. on a long uphill coming on boost in taller gears i get a little flash on the dash indicating det on v-power. 
on bp the car just does not seem to run as crisp. 

my question is has any evidence of what the fuels actually test at?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

mark r said:


> can someone clear things up, on the pump it states (at my local fuel stations)
> shell v-power 97 ron
> bp ultimate 98 ron
> tesco momentum 99 ron
> ...


V Power is 99 ron, hence the comparison with Momentum.

There's been a lot of bitching on this thread, but if you read back over Dudersvr's posts they are the most informative.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Just a shame we cant get E85 on the pump anymore.
We mapped a couple of 911 Turbos on a Super unleaded/20% methanol mix and got over 100hp increase (cars were around 600hp on super alone), flex fuel made this idiot proof for owners.


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Personally I'd never use E85. Too much hassle with clogging fuel pump filters and injectors. Far too much maintenance on a daily driver like mine.


----------



## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

charles charlie said:


> Personally I'd never use E85. Too much hassle with clogging fuel pump filters and injectors. Far too much maintenance on a daily driver like mine.


After investigating and talking to people like ASNU if its not used constantly then an occasional filter check seems to keep everything hunky dory, if it takes me a couple of hours once a year to clean filters I think thats acceptable maintenance to gain the HP that E85 affords, after all we accept more oil changes and trans fluid changes/checks as part of doing a lot of track work.


----------



## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Just use tramps piss, it's 95% proof and makes my car go like a missile


----------



## 007 (Sep 30, 2009)

Stealth69 said:


> Just use tramps piss, it's 95% proof and makes my car go like a missile


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

dudersvr said:


> After investigating and talking to people like ASNU if its not used constantly then an occasional filter check seems to keep everything hunky dory, if it takes me a couple of hours once a year to clean filters I think thats acceptable maintenance to gain the HP that E85 affords, after all we accept more oil changes and trans fluid changes/checks as part of doing a lot of track work.


what about having to use one third bigger injectors, losing fine resolution for nice idle control and also having only 75% of the range on a full tank?


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Stealth69 said:


> Just use tramps piss, it's 95% proof and makes my car go like a missile




That's pretty tough to come by unless you give them a few litres of Scrumpy to gulp down:tard:


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Adamantium said:


> what about having to use one third bigger injectors, losing fine resolution for nice idle control and also having only 75% of the range on a full tank?


Ill go 12 injector kit so it will always idle as it does now, I wont use E85 as a road fuel as its not available on the pump so mileage doesnt matter, however I will in europe where its about 40p a litre. With flex fuel its idiot proof automatically runs the correct map for % of ethanol, so as you add unleaded it switches to the appropriate map.


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

Neither, Costco 99 RON is cheaper than both


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

NOT a GTR but "M" cars, all my cars M3 E90/M5/M6 GC CP? and two F80 M3's hate TESCO99, I run them on...........................Sainsbury 97........I know you think it's shite, but I get 3/5 MPG more from it.
The cars run great on it.


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## njd (Nov 18, 2006)

*Costco Fuel ??*

The Mrs gets ordinary 4 star for her car (Lexus) from Costco and it is always at least 5p a litre cheaper than Shell.
On Saturday I noticed they have 99 Ron fuel at £1.15 - it is only 2 miles from home so I am going to fill up with this next time - has anyone had any experience of it?

My only concern is that every time I go into Costco I end up buying catering size packs of everything that end up lasting for bloody ages - hopefully they don't have a minimum quantity of 100 gallons 


I have used shell V power 99% of the time in the 8 years I have had the car which is at stage 4.25. Sometimes it runs absolutely brilliantly but occasionally it seems 'a bit rough' I have never thought to consider if that might be due to fuel sitting at the forecourt or in my tank for a while as sometimes I can go 3 weeks plus without refilling.


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

njd said:


> The Mrs gets ordinary 4 star for her car (Lexus) from Costco and it is always at least 5p a litre cheaper than Shell.
> On Saturday I noticed they have 99 Ron fuel at £1.15 - it is only 2 miles from home so I am going to fill up with this next time - has anyone had any experience of it?
> 
> My only concern is that every time I go into Costco I end up buying catering size packs of everything that end up lasting for bloody ages - hopefully they don't have a minimum quantity of 100 gallons
> ...


See above, it isn't just 99 RON they brand it Kirkland Signature, their signature items they stand behind in terms of quality and I probably have more confidence in Costco than the average independent Shell Garage.

I have been running mine almost exclusively on Costco fuel for over a year now.


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## njd (Nov 18, 2006)

That was my thoughts Andy, anything in store that they put their own name to is always very good quality, so no reason why the fuel shouldn't be the same.

There is also loads of room to manoeuvre around the pumps, there is never a queue and everything is always clean, with cheap prices and only 2 miles away from me its a no brainer.

No doubt somebody with more technical knowledge can comment on the quality of the fuel in due course, however from what I have read on this thread the comment may be more opinion than hard facts.

One thing I can do is check the MPG. I have measured every single fill of fuel since I had the car so I will confidently be able to comment on this aspect in due course when I have done enough fills.

Neil


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Quick look on the net it is supplied by Greenergy who also supply Tesco momentum


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

njd said:


> That was my thoughts Andy, anything in store that they put their own name to is always very good quality, so no reason why the fuel shouldn't be the same.
> 
> There is also loads of room to manoeuvre around the pumps, there is never a queue and everything is always clean, with cheap prices and only 2 miles away from me its a no brainer.
> 
> ...


Based upon your location we almost certainly use the same Costco fuel stop 

I sometimes use the Chadderton one too when heading back home from Leeds but others aren't quite as good. Liverpool which has been there for a few years doesn't have a good design and can be quite busy.


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## Gtrmad43786 (Aug 21, 2014)

I normally use Tesco but last batch was giving me knock


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## Dsm1113 (Dec 23, 2016)

North East of Scotland is fairly limited in choices, certainly no Costco, Exxon etc. I tend to run V-Power/Momentum 3 of 4 tanks then a 4th tank of 95 RON. Reason being that the premium fuels tend to have too many "cleaning" additives removing the lubricating effects. Just my tuppence worth. 

David


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

Gtrmad43786 said:


> I normally use Tesco but last batch was giving me knock


I too have found Tesco99, up and down in results, could be it's sat to long in the tanks unused by most and lost it's go!!.
I still stick by Sainsbury 97 for my "M" cars, not quite GTR power but good enough for road use here.


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## [email protected] Torque (Nov 10, 2015)

Trev said:


> I'll put it this way:
> 
> Super car manufacturers don't top their production cars up with Tesco's fuel, they use V-Power.
> 
> If it was about saving ££££ trust me they would, they just use the best available, which is V-Power.


I recently secured a 2016 R8 V10 Plus from a McLaren dealer, for a customer of ours. 

Once we had paid for it and arranged delivery, it went straight on the dyno for a tune and wasn't responded as hoped.... It turns out they brimmed it with 95 RON and after a call to the McLaren dealer, admitted to it!


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I recently secured a 2016 R8 V10 Plus from a McLaren dealer, for a customer of ours.
> 
> Once we had paid for it and arranged delivery, it went straight on the dyno for a tune and wasn't responded as hoped.... It turns out they brimmed it with 95 RON and after a call to the McLaren dealer, admitted to it!


The dealers are not the factory!

But goes to show you the difference the fuel makes.


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## [email protected] Torque (Nov 10, 2015)

Trev said:


> The dealers are not the factory!


Quite.

We have vehicles such as a 208 GTi, Impreza's etc and they all get treated to V-power. So I guess in that sense, it makes us better than a franchised supercar dealer wanting to save a fiver.


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## Andy L (Jul 29, 2016)

Hi all. 
I use mostly momentum because it's closer for me. Use Shell when I see a station and am getting low ! Not sure I notice much difference in performance. Maybe a little better on Shell.


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## ashmanflashman (Jul 23, 2017)

I worked for Ferrari for 5 years in sales and we used Tesco fuel in all our cars with no problems. Not even momentum most of the time just regular fuel. Never ever had a customer complain about a lack of power.


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## james_barker (Nov 17, 2016)

ashmanflashman said:


> I worked for Ferrari for 5 years in sales and we used Tesco fuel in all our cars with no problems. Not even momentum most of the time just regular fuel. Never ever had a customer complain about a lack of power.


Er. I'd be more concerned about pinking and actual damage to the engine, not just a slight power reduction. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

james_barker said:


> Er. I'd be more concerned about pinking and actual damage to the engine, not just a slight power reduction.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


hell yes! Nissan tell's you super only in the manual and on the petrol cap as well..


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## james_barker (Nov 17, 2016)

Chronos said:


> hell yes! Nissan tell's you super only in the manual and on the petrol cap as well..


It's fine of its mapped to the right fuel. Otherwise a big no no. Still, interesting to know how Ferrari treat their cars. £200k for the car and then scrimp a couple quid on the petrol. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

james_barker said:


> It's fine of its mapped to the right fuel. Otherwise a big no no. Still, interesting to know how Ferrari treat their cars. £200k for the car and then scrimp a couple quid on the petrol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


yeah its madness! I've only had to use normal unleaded once in my R35, I was in the middle of Wales, getting low on fuel and had to fill up.. Luckily my cars mapped, so popped it into map 3 which is the normal unleaded map, drove a good few hours on this and the car was fine, it felt underpowered on the map, but it will as it's compensating for the fuel, but still it ran just fine until i got to a petrol station when it was near low again, and filled up with super and back onto map 1.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

just come across this normal/high octane petrol dyno power test by fifth gear (video), see what you think.. including the results..

https://www.facebook.com/fifthgear/videos/10156700284202519/


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## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

V Power because its the furthest away.

Any excuse.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

Haha yes I know what you mean.

I've had a few crappy batches of vpower this year so have started sticking momentum in again. I would happily use the Costco stuff too but none local to me


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

last shell Vpower blurb from flyer I picked up yesterday, make from it what you will.. haha.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

My car never had anything but Momentum or V-Power for all its 8 years to a ratio of around 30:70 in favour of V-Power.

My pistons were caked in shite at 68k so I find their claims ridiculous and for the vast vast majority, impossible to prove or disprove as they'll never open up their engine.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

My car never had anything but Momentum or V-Power for all its 8 years to a ratio of around 30:70 in favour of V-Power.

My pistons were caked in shite at 68k so I find their claims ridiculous and for the vast vast majority, impossible to prove or disprove as they'll never open up their engine.


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

Chronos said:


> last shell Vpower blurb from flyer I picked up yesterday, make from it what you will.. haha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


TOTAL BOLOX.


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

charles charlie said:


> My car never had anything but Momentum or V-Power for all its 8 years to a ratio of around 30:70 in favour of V-Power.
> 
> My pistons were caked in shite at 68k so I find their claims ridiculous and for the vast vast majority, impossible to prove or disprove as they'll never open up their engine.


I've always suspected this. Any significant change to basic unleaded petrol with additives is a huge risk imho as you risk adding something that could potentially break down the oil and nuke engines over time.

I'm no chemical engineer but surely anything that can "clean" an engine could also change the composition of any oil it comes into contact with.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Any car with water, water/meth inj will have very clean pistons


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

ashmanflashman said:


> I worked for Ferrari for 5 years in sales and we used Tesco fuel in all our cars with no problems. Not even momentum most of the time just regular fuel. Never ever had a customer complain about a lack of power.


Ferrari 458 is mapped from the factory for 95 fuel.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Have now switched from vpower to momentum99.

My local shell is now £1.50 a litre lol!!!! Get stuffed shell.


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

kindai said:


> Have now switched from vpower to momentum99.
> 
> My local shell is now £1.50 a litre lol!!!! Get stuffed shell.


:chuckle: SHELL ****ing Joke.
You will not notice the change only in your pocket.


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

kindai said:


> Have now switched from vpower to momentum99.
> 
> My local shell is now £1.50 a litre lol!!!! Get stuffed shell.


Still better going to Costco, £1.18 a litre at my local when I passed by in Saturday.


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## Imran (May 6, 2017)

Vpower has jumped upto £1.47 a litre near me. How much is momentum? Never used it.


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## Sandy (Jan 16, 2015)

Vpower only for my r35


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Guess I'll have to get used to using shitty 99 RON when I'm back in the UK for a week later this summer!


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## davej51 (Jul 13, 2018)

thanks for a very enjoyable afternoon reading this post when I really should have been working! My favourite quote "of course I know who McLaren is, I use their toothpaste everyday", made me laugh. For the record I have used momentum in all my performance cars and never had any issues.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

davej51 said:


> thanks for a very enjoyable afternoon reading this post when I really should have been working! My favourite quote "of course I know who McLaren is, I use their toothpaste everyday", made me laugh. For the record I have used momentum in all my performance cars and never had any issues.


And not only toothpaste they make great baby buggies as well.


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

dudersvr said:


> And not only toothpaste they make great baby buggies as well.


Weren't Maclaren buggies the ones where a couple of babies had their fingers chopped off? I guess that they have similar panel-gap issues to McLaren Automotive!


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## Juice (Jun 21, 2009)

I filled up with momentum last week
On WOT my engine light kept flashing which was indicating knock hence the flashing light. Pissed off really. Will run till empty and refill somewhere else. Never had a prob with momentum usually


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Juice said:


> I filled up with momentum last week
> On WOT my engine light kept flashing which was indicating knock hence the flashing light. Pissed off really. Will run till empty and refill somewhere else. Never had a prob with momentum usually


Are you sure its not overboosting slightly due to the cold weather? toggle boost back one notch and see.


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## Juice (Jun 21, 2009)

It***8217;s stage 4.25 mapped by albert/linney
Should be boost capped at 1.25bar and the afr mix was shit due to fuel 
Really need to do a log. It***8217;s started to hesitate in second gear around 3k revs but then goes after around a second


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Juice said:


> It***8217;s stage 4.25 mapped by albert/linney
> Should be boost capped at 1.25bar and the afr mix was shit due to fuel
> Really need to do a log. It***8217;s started to hesitate in second gear around 3k revs but then goes after around a second


Might be dodgy batch of fuel or water in the tanks, try an octane booster, a GTR will hit 1.4 bar if requested but most drop off to 1.1 as revs/load rise maybe its trying to hit more than 1.25


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## Juice (Jun 21, 2009)

^^ can you pm me your contact number, you seem to know what your taking ablut and I***8217;m a complete newb in new territory here


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## carminegtr (May 10, 2004)

Costco 99 all day long, and at £1.17 a litre price is right.


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## R34GTRvspec2nur (Dec 28, 2016)

No 99 at Costco no more .only 97 

London west Tesco no 99 Ron can***8217;t find any Tesco in London selling 99 (someone....?) 

Birmingham every Tesco garage has 99 Ron .


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## davej51 (Jul 13, 2018)

carminegtr said:


> Costco 99 all day long, and at £1.17 a litre price is right.


There is a new Costco opened up near me (opened last week) and only 97 ron :-(


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## Comeal (Sep 8, 2018)

Momentum is almost 20p a litre cheaper by me and my car ran excellent power on it so no brainer for me..


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## PhilEvans64 (Oct 30, 2018)

Always used Tesco Momentum 99 or the BP 102 when it used to be at Ethan (bloody expensive). Recently had to fill up in an emergency at Shell and noticed it was back to 99. Must say it felt more lively on Shell V Power and now earning Shell Go points. So Shell V Power 99 Just shades it over Momentum 99. My car has a full Linney Flex Fuel Kit so E85 would be ideal but that's a drive to Calais (!) or VP X85 in 19 litre drums!!!


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