# Forum standards and behaviour



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Your right to use the gtr register


Umm, you don't have any.

Blow Dog operates this forum at no cost to the user and for the benefit of owners and enthusiasts. It is supported by Tuners and Traders who pay for banner advertising. 

WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THREAD CRAPPING IN THE TRADER SECTION!!!

Standards have slipped dramatically over recent months and a few users are, frankly, taking the piss. This place is not a free-for-all folks, can we can get things back on track please.

So, just to recap on a few basic forum rules

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/67047-thread-crapping-sale-forum.html?highlight=crapping

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/27354-attn-n00bs-idiots.html?highlight=noobs

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/13251-traders-note.html

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/5425-users-note.html

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/30215-courtesy-note.html



And please help us to help you

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/64489-reporting-posts-bad-traders-help-mod-team.html


Thank You.


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

:thumbsup:


----------



## rasonline (Mar 24, 2005)

make this one a sticky?


----------



## SPEED MERCHANT (Jun 5, 2006)

rasonline said:


> make this one a sticky?



Perv  :chuckle:


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Sadly, this needs a bump.


----------



## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

Bring back the ban hammer!


----------



## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

Mook, none of the links are working in the first post??????


.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

WE've just upgraded the forum software, looks like the link forwarding isn't working, i'll report it.

mook


----------



## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

> WE've just upgraded the forum software, looks like the link forwarding isn't working, i'll report it.


JUST BAN THEM .....


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Well said Mook.


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Bump, ffs.


----------



## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

I'm sure there is forum guidance on thread 'bumping'


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

lol Howsie. Sadly this one needs bumping occasionally.

In addition to Mookistar's post above...

The swear filter is there for a reason. *DO NOT* circumvent it by substituting characters, etc.

*DO NOT* post pics which contain words that you know are in the swear filter.

Thanks.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

moleman said:


> The swear filter is there for a reason. *DO NOT* circumvent it by substituting characters, etc.



sorry


----------



## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

You bad man, you're going to hell.


----------



## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

moleman said:


> Bump, ffs.


Acronyms are acceptable though?

Just kidding.


----------



## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Do I have to swear to get my PM's back?

Or the ability to PM at all?

Or the ability to create a thread?

Or just find a decent software engineer who can write quality code?

Or does suggesting such things constitute heresy under the new infraction rules?

Your ever so humble servant,
DaveG


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

dunno what happened there Dave, should be working now though

mook


----------



## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Mike,

:bowdown1:

It works now! :thumbsup:

I feel whole again........

DaveG


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

ATCO said:


> Mike,
> 
> :bowdown1:
> 
> ...


:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

Mick


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

can I just bump this thread. There's been so much mudslinging the last few weeks, as well as a generally unwelcoming feel to the forum for new members.

The search function is rubbish, so please extend tolerance to newbies asking seemingly obvious questions.

Please also respect the traders on this forum. Their support is the reason the forum survives. If you dislike their product or prices, it's not for you to say so in public. If you have a genuine bad experience with a trader, please contact admin to seek advice on the best way to proceed. If you feel a trader is behaving in an unfit manner, please report their posts.

I genuinely want to see standards improve on here and need the full support of all our users to do so.

One last word, users found to be opening new accounts to bait, manipulate or generally wind users up, will be banned. 

Thanks all

Mook


----------



## FakeThinkpad (Apr 30, 2011)

Mookistar said:


> The search function is rubbish,


May i add as a suggestion or tip to use the Google site search function, on google you enter this in the textbox and then your words of choise.

site:gtr.co.uk

For example,

site:gtr.co.uk r34 changing oils

Besides great feedback on matching words, it takes recently replied threads into account when listing results.


----------



## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

I agree Mook....this has been the way things have become for quite some time now. It seems, in my opinion, a vicious circle as noob (or indeed not so noob) searches forum for answer to a question...is presented with rather ineffective search results...then posts up their question in a new thread to be met with, in most cases, a sarky comment anout using the search function first.
I myself have been the victim of the forum search facility and it sucks BIG TIME... I truly believe that if the search function was improved then the users would be able to have their question answered (most of the time) therefore keeping the bloodpressure of certain other users at an acceptable level. It may be that while a question may have been covered before, there may be a different spin or other factor that makes starting a new thread perfectly reasonable.
As has been said before in another thread, a forum will after a while (and especially a car forum) get to the point where MOST questions have been covered. The forum can either stagnate and become an archive or we accept the fact that new owners and forum users may ask questions that have been covered before. In such cases, I will tend to reanswer the questions where i can or provide some positive input rather than berate the person.

I can see where the comments of being 'unfriendly' and 'hostile' come from and it IS worrying...unfortunately this perceived hostility and unfriendliness is only demonstrated by literally a handful of users. These users do actually provide good input from time to time but they need to understand that their actions (while im sure well intended) are giving the forum a reputation, and not a good one at that.

New users need to be mollycoddled for a bit and i try to do my bit and welcome new folks to the forum. Going off on one and appearing unfriendly only serves to send out the completely wrong signals IMHO. They need to remember that they were noobs once themselves and show a bit of humility.

However, having a useable and effective search facility can only serve to enhance the forum and mitigate, for some part, the sometimes scathing responses to low post-count users questions..

TT


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

I totally agree.

The search facility is being looked into

I am also keen to restore some of the respect back into the forum. One way of doing this is to actively encourage more technical input from our users. If we can get a tuner to provide datalogs, Dyno sheets matched with full test conditions, controlled modification testing, i believe we can get the forum back to the levels it enjoyed when the RB26 was being pushed to it's limits for the first time.

I'll sort the search facility, am actively signing up a wide range of Trades from all different backgrounds, and hopefully we can make this place exciting and innovative enough that people will be too busy reading to be rude 

mook


----------



## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

Mook you have my support in bringing the forum back to an enjoyable place to visit, especially for the newer visitor.

Well done and good luck.

.


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> Please also respect the traders on this forum. Their support is the reason the forum survives. If you dislike their product or prices, it's not for you to say so in public.


Respect is earned, it is also a two way street!

The forum is for people to exchange information, experiences and knowledge and surely just because someone has paid to advertise (not support) it doesn't allow them to rip off forum members/users and doesn't negate the opportunity for people to apply their opinions, including cost?

Now obviously my response is with regard to traders posting in the general sections. However, I agree a certain level of decoram be applied when replying in their own section - although they have moderation powers in their own sections so in theory can cull any unwanted comments


----------



## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

That is a fair point . 

As soon a trader posts something in the general section ( often its a veiled ad like coming soon..........) they are to my mind abusing the rules .
They pay to advertise in their own section not advertise , sorry , post in the general one.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Mike, thats fine, but you can't stand outside groucho's wearing a placard saying "the Scallop starter only costs £2 to make" so why is it acceptable to do the same on the forum? If you don't agree with a traders pricing, don't buy from them. They'll soon get the messgae.

mook


----------



## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Mookistar said:


> Mike, thats fine, but you can't stand outside groucho's wearing a placard saying "the Scallop starter only costs £2 to make" so why is it acceptable to do the same on the forum? If you don't agree with a traders pricing, don't buy from them. They'll soon get the messgae.
> 
> mook


But the street isn't a community based around a common theme though, eg if Grouchos were doing a starter for 20 quid that was the same or better elsewhere for half the price, while I wouldn't bother telling the general public this, I would at least look out for my fellow club/community members

If we see the same or near-identical product for far less, it is almost a duty to the rest of the community to help them save a bit of cash! :thumbsup:
Also, if I'm in a shop and the salesman gives me a price I'm not happy with, noone would mind me telling him (even loudly) that its too much, overpriced, etc


----------



## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

They make a real fair point. Are we protecting the interests of paid up dealers or the forum users?


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Cowboy traders should be named and shamed.

If they fail to provide a reasonable service and pricing, the matter should be brought up in the interest of all forum users and for their future protection when dealing with such traders.

Don't understand why a banner ad should give them (the traders) the immunity ?


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

It doesn't give immunity but the legal situation means we have to watch what people post

Re the community aspect, whilst I agree the community is the priority but I don't think it's fair to attack a trader because his price is too high. You don't know his costs or what level of service he might give compared to the competition. 

It's not fair IMHO to publicly attack or undermine any trader or individual for that matter. If you think they are overpriced there are more subtle ways of going about it

Traders who scam or actually rip people off should be reported

Mook


----------



## Bolle (Feb 8, 2005)

Even if the traders are reported it will always be their word against mine even if I have proof!


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

If you have proof you can post. The trader then gets a right to reply. However the forum cannot get involved in legal disputes themselves.


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Mook how can saying someone is overpriced constitute a legal recourse? Asda do it about tesco and sainsburys. 

As I said, I believe if traders post in their own section then that's fine, if however they start 'advertising' their products in other sections then they should be aware that they are open to comment. It should be the traders who are brought to task on this. As an example, just check out all the posts in svm's section. Now while his project is amazing, informative and entertaining it also provokes a lot of squabbling now if he was that worried surely it would be posted within the section he himself can moderate (or could it be he doesn't get the advertising he wants there!!).


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

I hear what you are saying. I just wanted to remind people to show respect and try to reduce bickering.


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> I hear what you are saying. I just wanted to remind people to show respect and try to reduce bickering.


And u caused a bloody arguement lol. 

Na fair points made but obviously the above one I feel quite strongly on


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

That's cool. Perhaps I'll pm people if I see something and try to get a handle on it that way


----------



## DanW33gtr (Nov 10, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> Mook how can saying someone is overpriced constitute a legal recourse? Asda do it about tesco and sainsburys.
> 
> As I said, I believe if traders post in their own section then that's fine, if however they start 'advertising' their products in other sections then they should be aware that they are open to comment. It should be the traders who are brought to task on this. As an example, just check out all the posts in svm's section. Now while his project is amazing, informative and entertaining it also provokes a lot of squabbling now if he was that worried surely it would be posted within the section he himself can moderate (or could it be he doesn't get the advertising he wants there!!).


absolutaly agree with this :thumbsup:


----------



## IMS (Sep 18, 2002)

MIKEGTR said:


> Mook how can saying someone is overpriced constitute a legal recourse? Asda do it about tesco and sainsburys.
> 
> As I said, I believe if traders post in their own section then that's fine, if however they start 'advertising' their products in other sections then they should be aware that they are open to comment. It should be the traders who are brought to task on this. As an example, just check out all the posts in svm's section. Now while his project is amazing, informative and entertaining it also provokes a lot of squabbling now if he was that worried surely it would be posted within the section he himself can moderate (or could it be he doesn't get the advertising he wants there!!).


Have to say, I fully agree (not with SVM in particular), but the "skyline tax" should not be tolerated and while the more expereinced owner votes with their cash (being spent elsewhere), we should not be prohibited from warning others of potentially overpriced products (*except in that traders forum*!).:thumbsup:.

I wouldn't walk up to someone in Asda and tell them it's £5 cheaper at Tesco's but if they told me in the pub they weer going to Asda to buy womething I absolutely would tell them!


----------



## chas (Sep 19, 2003)

tarmac terror said:


> As has been said before in another thread, a forum will after a while (and especially a car forum) get to the point where MOST questions have been covered. The forum can either stagnate and become an archive or we accept the fact that new owners and forum users may ask questions that have been covered before. In such cases, I will tend to reanswer the questions where i can or provide some positive input rather than berate the person.
> 
> I can see where the comments of being 'unfriendly' and 'hostile' come from and it IS worrying...unfortunately this perceived hostility and unfriendliness is only demonstrated by literally a handful of users. These users do actually provide good input from time to time but they need to understand that their actions (while im sure well intended) are giving the forum a reputation, and not a good one at that.
> 
> ...


Two very good points made there and I agree with both, it's often peoples Q's that keep the forum moving along or even open up a different slant on things that may have changed due to new technology.


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Right people listen up.

The admin and moderation team are pretty fed up about the amount of negativity on this forum lately. We are getting far too many disgruntled posts jumping on various threads out of the blue and causing arguments.

New rule - if you have a problem with a trader or another member CONTACT US FIRST. In future we will be deleting general crap on threads that we didn't know about. We will not allow continued assassinations of threads to continue.

You have been warned!


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Ok that's fair enough.

I've been on the end of some harsh, and in my opinion uncalled for comments via pm, by a gutless trader, on numerous occasions now.

But by reporting the matter, what repercussions will that have. Will it lead to an investigation or infraction, or just washed under the carpet.

What about traders having two accounts, that gets confusing, and ultimately led to today's skirmish with a trader/private seller on here.

Can't be one rule for some and another for others.

In terms of prices, I agree to an extend, but also feel members should be made aware of unrealistic pricing and avoid bring ripped off, just because a trader states "bargain" or the like, it should not taken as gospel.

But I understand that to be a bit of a grey area.

I feel it's not just traders/members that rip others off, that should be exposed, but also the ones who provide a poor service in general, or feel its ok to abuse you albeit via pm or other then that.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Admin have to judge each matter on its merits. Contact a mod and we will try to assist. If a trader is too expensive, don't buy from them. They'll soon wonder why they aren't selling anything.


----------



## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

TABZ said:


> Ok that's fair enough.
> 
> I've been on the end of some harsh, and in my opinion uncalled for comments via pm, by a gutless trader on numerous occasions.
> 
> ...


Absolutely...if were going to be upholding standards then these standards need to apply to EVERYONE and be enforced consistently. Theres definately a perception that some traders and individuals benefit from some kind of special treatment. This was brought up on another thread recently and many people felt the same way.

If admin can say, with hand on heart, that EVERY forum user whether private individual or trader will be treated the same then thats great. If some enjoy a more lenient approach from admin then thats where probems will start...

On another note, its a bit orwellian to try and make everyone only post happy, jolly subjects. A forum is for ALL types of conversation good, bad and indifferent...to try and shape conversation is wrong. 

TT

TT


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Mook as stated I agree with that.

But what about multiple accounts and abuse, that's not acceptable and I'm sure if if were a member he/she would be warned.


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Yes but there is a balance and it has been far too much of the bitchy stuff lately.

This car stuff is supposed to be fun time guys, try to remember that.

Point is if you suspect multiple a counts TELL US. It's not for you to take it on yourselves to sort it.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Multiple accounts are not permitted without admin approval. Absur won't be tolerated and should be reported


----------



## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

tonigmr2 said:


> Yes but there is a balance and it has been far too much of the bitchy stuff lately.
> 
> This car stuff is supposed to be fun time guys, try to remember that.


Yes it is and im sure if you looked at the percentages you will find that the vast majority of posts are all sweetness and light 
Its human nature to have a good moan/bitch about things and other people. Thats not wrong, its just natural and shouldnt be condemned.

This forum is good. Its really the only one i actually spend significant time on. The fact that it has subforums which deal with topics OTHER than cars is refreshing...in the past there have been comments made that these subforums stimulate nothing but conflicts but ironically it is these areas where good, stimulating conversation takes place.

Dont meddle with things that arent broken..

TT


----------



## HeavyDuty (Apr 27, 2012)

Tenure usually affords a certain amount of latitude with respect to correcting or guiding new members, but it also should bestow self restraint. It's the moderators function to step in when the environment becomes unpleasant, which is what they're doing and it's appreciated.

Incessant self promoting posts outside ones' own forum should expect open and possibly conflicting points of view. 

I've been on "mailing lists" and "message boards" since about 1996 & always have accepted that individuals and vendors don't air dirty laundry in public. If there has been a dispute and assistance was requested it was done via PM. I can see a member appealing to a moderator as a last resort, but the parties each and to the other should exhaust all alternatives first.

I saw a thread recently that was calling a vendor to task about a service. That was one of the most inane threads I've ever seen. Commodity? Yes. Service? No. IMHO, that was an inappropriate use of the forum.

.02


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

tonigmr2 said:


> Yes but there is a balance and it has been far too much of the bitchy stuff lately.
> 
> This car stuff is supposed to be fun time guys, try to remember that.
> 
> Point is if you suspect multiple a counts TELL US. It's not for you to take it on yourselves to sort it.


That's exactly what I will do. And no where have I tried to sort anything myself. 

As for approved multiple accounts, it's all good and well the admin knowing who is who, but when members like me who have steered clear of traders as requested by admin, reply to said traders alternative account unknowingly, it opens a can of worms.

A little more transparency or clamp 
it out completely, why the need for two accounts anyway. 

Toni stated you are trying to have away with it, or words to this effect on another recent thread gone wrong, I could not agree more.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

In your case the new account was because he is a trader and wanted a fresh account for his business.


----------



## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Mookistar said:


> In your case the new account was because he is a trader and wanted a fresh account for his business.


Might i suggest for such situations that some sort of clear note exists in the sig or profile panel (left hand side) that one account is linked to another?? Wuld provide transparency and solve a lot of problems..

TT


----------



## LiamGTR (Nov 26, 2006)

I would ask the question why the person would want to start a fresh? Something in the past they don't want somebody to see? Hell I know we're all human and we all make mistakes, but trying to hide away from them isn't the right thing to do.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

It's nothing to do with that. It's a new company run by an existing user hence a new account.


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

It may be a new company but he has always been a trader, that much is obvious.

I don't buy into all this personnel parts for sale malarkey.

Anyhow at least he is a registered trader on here now, so I know to steer clear, but its only right his other so called non trade account be restricted or as TT states a link made between the 2.


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

This post wasn't bumped over one account though, this is general to the board. Just a reminder.


----------



## Bolle (Feb 8, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> It's nothing to do with that. It's a new company run by an existing user hence a new account.


Really, then maybe his other/old accounts should be linked aswell so people can read about his past?


----------



## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

Bolle said:


> Really, then maybe his other/old accounts should be linked aswell so people can read about his past?


Who is this trader?


----------



## Bolle (Feb 8, 2005)

sw20GTS said:


> Who is this trader?


Circuit-Art aka GT-Garage aka xxl225


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Three accounts.

Be nice for members to have a little clarity on this.

As mook has stated probably nothing sinister about it, but it doesn't read to well.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Alex, username xxl225 became a paid trader with the username "GT Garage" which was wound up a few years back but we discussed and allowed him to clear out some last bits.

Now he has a new comapny, totally seperate called "Circuit-art" with a new username. 

There's nothing sinister, if you TABZ wanted to become paid trader with a new username you could, it's nice and simple.

Mook


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Why the roll eyes?

I stated it does not read well because of cars being purchased our key for the sake of being broken for profit, such ss the LM purchased on eBay and broken on here, "hardly last bits" as you might have been told.

That's a different story and I will leave it that as I don't want another warning.

Well done Mook, with detailed info like that, people can make of it what they wish now.

Thanks for the offer or the snipe, which ever it is.

If at any point in time I feel I have anything of interest or value to the members on here or to add this board, I will let you know.

Members are able to read each others profiles in order to get a brief description of who they are dealing with, mine clearly states motor trade under occupation, so never been a secret.


Being an R35, R33 and R32 owner, my interest here is the same as any other owner, invested, enthusiastic, and open minded to opinions and information that can't be found elsewhere.

Hoorah the Gtr board.


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

TABZ said:


> Hoorah the Gtr board.


Hoorah indeed.

With a 'hip hip hooray' to boot.


----------



## simplysideways (Apr 17, 2007)

Shouldn't his current 'private' for sale thread be closed then and all items be listed under his trade banner , at least then giving forum users security of recourse with a trader rather than no warranty on a private sale , its not like there low cost items and it ll make your job as a mod a lot easier


----------



## moonshine (Feb 13, 2012)

how much is the "scallop" tried the search button:chuckle:


----------

