# GTR Register team TOTB3 results.



## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

*Top speed:*

Rocket: 192.4
Fuggles: 189.9
Peter. 187.8
Keith: 185.2
Harry: 175.1
Ron K. 171.8
Howsie: 168.6
Chris. 0
Dave W. 0
Hugh: 0
Marc. 0

*Handling:*

Rocket: 38.82
Harry: 39.09
Ron K: 39.71
Howsie: 41.18
Peter. 42.53
Dave W. 45.76
Chris. 0
Fuggles. 0
Hugh. 0
Keith. 0
Marc. 0

*1/4:*

Rocket: 10.33
Ron K. 10.64
Peter. 10.87
Fuggles. 11.34
Hugh. 11.58
Harry. 11.61
Dave W. 11.68
Howsie. 12.00
Keith. 12.61
Marc. 13.01
Chris. 14.25


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

Some good times there! 

I'm moderatley happy with mine as my clutch was slipping - OSG tripple on going in soon and then we shall see what she does.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Good times. What sort of horse is everyone running? - interested in yours peter after the recent work.


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Not a wonder everyone joins the quest for power with figures like those cropping up!!!!     
You lot are a bad influence on us . Shame on you :smokin: 
Seriously tho there are some really good results there chaps Congratulations and keep up the good work!
Remember its your research that we follow ha ha ha ha
JAY


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

moleman said:


> Good times. What sort of horse is everyone running? - interested in yours peter after the recent work.


Hi Iain,

Mine made 494 atw last week at G Force after Gary had mapped her so upwards of 600bhp. I guess that has now been proved by the 'black dyno'...


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## keith (Jun 29, 2001)

*ET TIMES ALL TO FCUK*

The timing is all wrong 

I only had 2wd with lots of wheel spin  and i am only
1 mph slower than Ronnie not a chance.

to run a mid 10 second 1/4 you need to be doing 140 to 150 mph.
not 113 to 129 mph if we are going to run our cars we should at least 
get the right times and speeds for all our effort




I will not be entering next year unless the timing equipment has a calibration certificate 


see below


2 Rocket Ronnie Skyline R33 GTR 10.33 129



3 Ron Kidell Skyline R32 GTR 10.64 122



7 Peter Everett Skyline R33 GTR 10.87 113



12 Tim Webster Skyline NUR 11.38 116



18 Hugh Kier Skyline R34 GTR 11.58 112



39 Keith Cowie Skyline R32 GTR 12.61 128

Keith


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Seems to make sense to me Keith, you'd be slower off the line but with the power your car was making, once you were rolling, you'd be accelerating far quicker and making a good terminal speed....


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## keith (Jun 29, 2001)

Peter said:


> Seems to make sense to me Keith, you'd be slower off the line but with the power your car was making, once you were rolling, you'd be accelerating far quicker and making a good terminal speed....



Peter not a chance is this right when we were all at the pod last year 
all the skylines that were running in the 10's me inc
we were all doing about 140 to 150 mph 
i think i done a 10.64 at 139 mph you have only done 113mph 
you cant tell me that this is right can you.

Keith


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Dead right Keith, anybody can see that there does appear to be a problem with my terminal speed which is being investigated at the moment. I saw +130mph at the end of the 1/4. The timing clock is a completely separate system to the terminal speed system. I have already raised the question of terminal speeds in the other thread and with Chris. 

All I was trying to point out was that it is conceivable that you could achieve a similar terminal speed to Rocket Ronnie when you were running in RWD as your car makes far more power than his but wouldn't have got off the line any near as quickly....


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## keith (Jun 29, 2001)

I am talking to chris about it now

Keith


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## chrisT.O.T.B. (Feb 8, 2004)

keith
pm'd you as i have a couple of top speed results for you listed, which you may not have had tickets given to you?

ps the timing gear does indeed have calibration certificates annually, same as pod's gear etc.
it is unfair however to compare trap speeds from two venues of different surfaces and at different times of year. 
the 1/4m elapsed time clocks are a seperate timing system to the 1/4m trap speed clock , which is an average speed over the last 32ft on a seperate start stop clock, and does not affect the e.t timing.
however, i am currently passing on your comments to trev @ the timing gear company for comments mate
rgds


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

I got a 12.4 & 116mph in my FD so I cant see those terminals being accurate.... ....cant deny it.

Ant.


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## chrisT.O.T.B. (Feb 8, 2004)

hi ant- no disrespect but its comparing two different cars, on different venues, on different days, with totally different surfaces if you ran at pod or elsewhere? you didnt run on sunday in those conditions. (calder ran 139mph terminals on sunday btw.)
I've spoken to keith and have his two top speed runs for him.
rgds


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

yeah fair enough. I dont think the terminals were too far off after taking a second look, so sorry Chris.

Keith your terminal looks about right to me on a second look, its quite a good time for a first go in a 1000+bhp car with rear wheel drive, but terminal is affected more by BHP rather than how well you start I always throught.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

I'll add some other 'facts' as well:

At Woodbridge last year, Henrys GT2 ran 171mph, in stock trim, in the wet, over 1.1 miles. At TOTB3, with an extra 60+bhp, an extra 0.15miles and in the dry it ran exactly the same speed………………..?

I was credited with 5 quarter-miles times, in the range from 11.9 to 21 seconds. All of these were at 112mph terminal. There is no way a car can do quarters in the 11s and only be doing 112mph. Autocar tested a standard GT2 with a 120+mph trap speed when stock, as has every other car magazine in the world.

Lastly, a stock GT2 (with an exhaust changed only) ran at a previous TOTB and was credited with 189mph I recall for 1.25miles. My car has a dyno proven 60bhp more than that car and far more torque, yet ran 7mph slower at the same venue?

Bear in mind that with these relatively standard Porsches, the variations in weather/temperature will have very little effect on performance.

I loved the event, but there are serious questions about the accuracy of many aspects of the timings/speeds.

I may well buy a full GPS/accelerometer data-logger, as used by the magazines, just to resolve this issue.


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## Ged (Jun 29, 2001)

> Chris : hi ant- no disrespect but its comparing two different cars, on different venues, on different days, with totally different surfaces if you ran at pod or elsewhere? you didnt run on sunday in those conditions. (calder ran 139mph terminals on sunday btw.)


That is a load of codswallop and will not convince anyone  

*Guy*. Nice presentation of facts. You are correct and accurate as usual.

*Chris* Look and learn from Guy. Given the money people have spent on their cars, and the number of spectators who paid to attend, second to only to safety should have been the total accuracy of the timning equipment. Sadly the timing was clearly a joke as it also was last year.
I distinctly remember Ronnies speed was very silly last year in relation to his quarter mile time, something like 123mph and 10.2 which did not stack up.


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## Jez (Oct 8, 2001)

I have to agree with Keith and Guy, I was there to spectate and the terminal speeds looked a fair way out to me from the start.

Last year at TOTBII my first three 1/4 mile runs were 11.6, 11.5 and 11.4 all of which had terminal speeds between 124mph and 126mph.
That was in an R33 GTR on the same surface and similar weather conditions as this year. This is as close a comparison to this years competitors as you could hope for.
If anything the slightly cooler temps this year should have improved the terminal speeds due to engines producing a little more power.

As always it was a great event but I would hate to have put my blood, sweat and tears (not to mention all my hard earned cash) into preparing my car only to find that the timing gear was out and there was no proper result to show for it.

Jez


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Sorry Jez, all your terminals last year were around 110...


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## Jez (Oct 8, 2001)

Peter,

I haven't got the timing slips to hand but I'm 99.9999999999999999% sure they were 124 - 126.

I'll try and dig them out later to confirm unless Chris has them on record somewhere ?
I hadn't run the car anywhere else and I definitely didn't dream it.
Congrats on your results by the way :smokin: 

Jez


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

Shame I didnt see you at the show mate, I was looking out for Chris' FD but when I didnt see it I presumed you didnt go. The Ultima there was stunning - bet you cant wait to get yours on the road. I heard about Chris' FD, all I can say is bad luck and he is one hell of a trooper.

Ant.


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## Jez (Oct 8, 2001)

Anthony,

I heard you were going up but didn't see you there.
It was a very long and sleep deprived weekend as you know if you have heard the story about Chris' car. Rebuilding the engine and having the car running in around 4 hours is some kind of world record - it wasn't even cold when it went back in  

The Ultima looked and sounded great, plenty of work to do on mine yet but I have lots of motivation now to get on with it  

Jez


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## P20SPD (Aug 5, 2003)

I would just like to add to Chris's credit, that at the Scooby Shoot Out in May, my car (red scooby wagon) was hitting the limiter in 6th, way before the top speed line, which is 158ish per the gearing. The recorded speed was 133.

After spending quite a bit of time with Chris and Trevor and them going up and testing the kit, at the same time as me running with gps in the car, the results were as follows. Speedo just over 160, GPS 142 (held on limiter for last 1/4 of a mile), Elvington Speed trap 138 ish.

It transpired by front diff was playing up, and thats where the speed sensor is on a Scoob.

On sunday at TOTB3, with a new gearbox, my car ran a recorded 163.3, the rev counter was at 6800, which suggests 168ish. See the run here http://www.scoobyduck.mine.nu/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=17

So i was pretty confident that the speeds on the top speed were accurate to within a few MPH.

However, on the quarter mile, the speedo was indicating 120. 4th gear in my car is 99 mph at 7000rpm, when you watch the next video, you can see i am in 5th way before the line, and the speedo indicates 120ish. My terminals on the 1/4 were either 103 or 104 on all 5 runs.
http://www.scoobyduck.mine.nu/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=16

Chris, if you read this, it isnt critisism, i hope you can use it to solve the problem, as my gearbox problem is definately resolved.

Steven


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

Jez said:


> Anthony,
> 
> I heard you were going up but didn't see you there.
> It was a very long and sleep deprived weekend as you know if you have heard the story about Chris' car. Rebuilding the engine and having the car running in around 4 hours is some kind of world record - it wasn't even cold when it went back in
> ...


I am gutted for Chris, such a frustrating weekend for him. Still hopefully the FD's will do better next year. Did it actually pop a rotor on the way up or was it another fault?


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Times and Speeds*

As pointed out by just about everyone your times and speeds are complete tosh Chris. To come on here and start talking about different venues and surfaces in an attempt to make us question whether the equipment was faulty or incorrectly set up or not comfirms your understanding or at least complete lack of drag racing, times and speeds which is quite clearly non existent and your event has made a mockery of all the effort shown by all whom competed. If all you want to do is take peoples money on a gate, my advice ( if wanted ) - organise Bootfairs instead, people expect portaloos at Bootfairs too so you have got that one apsect covered at least 

As for your comments along the lines of ' we will be looking at this for next year ' , mate you said that last year and f%ck all was different apart from a screen no one could see and a couple of extra bogs.

The major concern was safety anyway, I was standing near the line, a woman with a pushchair was standing next to me right behind a car which was just about to do a burnout, literally 15 feet away - she didnt realise that, he lights it up and you can guess the rest, what a joke, she had like a 2 year old kid in the pram, how the f%ck can she be allowed to get into a dangerous area like that with a baby. Heres some more advice - hire more marshalls with this years profits, you may save a life next year, safety comes first.

Ged, hows it going, FYI, Ronnie has never run a 10.2.

The only saving grace to the weekend was the p1ss up on Saturday night which was entertaining and fun however we organised this for ourselves


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

Much that it is unfair of me to compare 2 different cars, comparing 2 different venues is completely justified, otherwise a time set by someone in the US or Auz would mean nothing here, drag racing has to be normalized or it's not much use saying I did a 9 when a 9 can be an 8 at another venue or a 12 at another... ...know what I mean? If you are saying the venue & timing equipment is not up to it then...

The event is without a doubt the best event on the calendar, and all dues to Chris for making it happen BUT the criticism needs to be taken seriously, when an event SUDDENLY gets as big as TOTB has, and then demands high entry prices - people expect the event to be up to the people running in it. That includes - good facilities.

Andy, I hear you with the specators thing, I was standing near the start and people were just walking on to the track and standing behind all of the cars?!?!? I mean wtf?!? It took a good 20-30 minutes for one of the organisers to notice and do something about it. Proper marshals are a must and I am sure people would be more than happy to volunteer to do it.

Ant.


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Saftey was a real issue.
I think this is the main area for improvement.
Times are not as important as the publics safty!

I'm sure the club could find volenteers for marshalling.


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Safety always has to be the number 1 priority at any motorsport event. More marshalls is definately a good idea.

I'm a bit concerned about the types of cars that are starting to be "created" specifically for this event. No longer are we seeing just road going cars entered anymore, but we are basically seeing stripped out racers competing. Like everyone else, I LOVE to see high performance cars doing what they do best, BUT, the whole spirit of this event is about road going street cars - cars that can be used every day ... to potter down town, to drive a few hundred miles, etc. A fair amount that competed met this criteria, but we are also seeing ALOT that don't. I can understand why people remove as much weight from the car as possible - because less weight means they will be more competitive, but perhaps the event needs a "race" section ... so all of the cars that quite frankly would be horrendous to drive on a long journey, can still compete - albeit, in their own section (as we still want to see them run).

This is in no disrespect to anyone - as everyone who competed put in MASSES of effort and had the guts to give it a go, but to me it was great to see Ronnie win overall again ... as his car was at full weight (with interior, spare wheel, etc), with no light weight carbon parts, and he drove there and back. That's what i thought it was all about.

I enjoyed it, but i'm just concerned that it's going to turn into a race car event rather than a road car event. This has become the biggest event of it's type in the country, and I respect Chris and his team for actually putting it on.


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## Ged (Jun 29, 2001)

> Andy : Ged, hows it going


Car is going very well, never better.


> Andy : FYI Ronnie has never run a 10.2.


You are correct I think Andy, I must have confused Ronnie with your good self  
I was a bit vague with my post by stating _something like_ . 
Whatever the time was it was probably in the 10's with a 123ish terminal speed, whcih does not seem correct that was my point.

Nice to see you there on Sunday Andy, never got the chance to trade insults with you as you were already trading insults with someone else when I saw you.

L8r
Ged


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## Jez (Oct 8, 2001)

*Timeslips*

Just to confirm that I managed to find my timeslips from TOTBII.

Seems Peter and I are both right  

Timeslip 1 : [email protected]
Timeslip 2 : [email protected]

I'm no drag expert but I wouldn't expect to see inconsistencies in terminal speeds this great from the same car on the same day.

I also came across a timeslip I got at the SXOC top speed challenge a couple of years ago. At the time my car was running 400 bhp and I ran [email protected]

110mph seems about right to me for a 400'ish bhp GTR and mid 120's about right for a 550 - 600bhp GTR.

Again, I really like TOTB, it's the best event of the year and well done to Chris for putting it on - I would just want to be 100% sure of my times and speeds if I ran my pride and joy there  

Jez


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## chrisT.O.T.B. (Feb 8, 2004)

thanks for those people decent enough to actually respect the effort and work involved in putting together such an event, and to those who have come forward with valid comment. as for "mr" barnes, all i can say andy is you showed your true colours, should have expected nothing less. Luckily enough i've been around long enough to be able to attend a few good **** ups in my time, maybe i'll come to one of yours and see how well you run that? lol


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## KevC (Oct 12, 2002)

*An idea*

I think enough has been said about timing issues and safety and I am sure Chris wil give 110% to get those issues sorted.
With regards to the fact that some cars are now appearing stripped out, with drag slicks etc, I second those comments.
I think for next year it should be run like the Custom Car Street Eliminator series where ALL entrants have to do a street circuit ( 5 miles I think ), stop for *normal * fuel, hot start and back to the venue. If any fail to do this, they are out - end of story.

Thoughts anyone ?

Kev


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## Tim (Jan 6, 2003)

*Just a thought*

Chris
How about moving the public car park further up the main runway and have the pit area on the main runway (at the entrance end) leaving plenty of room for the three queues.
Also limiting how many laps each person gets on the sprint circuit may not be a bad idea.


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Terminals may be a little low, but they were consistent right to left this year, and for at least, every run. You have to remember the terminal is measured as an average speed over the last 30-60ft (sure Chris can confirm distance) so you are going to see speeds a little less than what you read off the speed as you cross the line.

As for Mr Barnes, I would like to know whether he thinks the timing gear really is suspect, or is it possible that nobody had over 650hp?

Paul


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## Jez (Oct 8, 2001)

Does anyone know what the official distance is for timing the terminal speed ?

Is there an official distance used by the NHRA etc ?
You would hope so otherwise terminal speed would vary considerably between venues.

Jez


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

pretty sure it's supposed to be 62ft


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*TOTB*



chrisT.O.T.B. said:


> thanks for those people decent enough to actually respect the effort and work involved in putting together such an event, and to those who have come forward with valid comment. as for "mr" barnes, all i can say andy is you showed your true colours, should have expected nothing less. Luckily enough i've been around long enough to be able to attend a few good **** ups in my time, maybe i'll come to one of yours and see how well you run that? lol


I dont want to drag this out but I will further add this, what makes you think that we should respect your efforts for a profiting captial enterprise. Its a business Chris, you make it sound like you are doing everyone a favour when you are not, you run this event for your own gain, you have no sympathy nor do you deserve any with regards to the issues raised. As for mr true colours, yes, speaking my mind and laying it down is my colours, and they are not new mate. Say it as you find it is the best honest approach to anything.

As for me organising one, It wont happen, I am not an events organiser, its not what I do therefore I wont touch it in fear of f%cking it up as I dont know what I am doing, I have the intelligence to realise that prior to doing it you see.

Griping on at me as if I have a vendetta against you/your event will not make things better, this is not the case, I just want to run at an event which is valid and real and is worthy of my efforts, if you cant do that, I am not interested, why should I be, dont waste my time.

Ged, didnt see you once! trading insults - with whom! your suggestion is outrageous!!! 

Pavlo, Maybe they didnt! 

Regardless, safety is the biggest issue, you imagine running your car up the strip, it breaks a driveshaft and you wander off into the crowd at 100mph and kill someone, or doing your burnout only to return and discover a bit of stone or rubber hit the kid in the pram in the eye or something and you didnt even know it was there - Its bad news whatever way you look at it. The only person that should be exposed to any danger is the fool driving the car, end of.


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## -C- (Oct 16, 2003)

I ran in the left lane for most of my runs..

However, one of my runs (the one that was best described as 'average' in the launch as opposed to utter shyte) I went on to acheive a 94mph terminal & in the 15's IIRC.

I beat the car that was next to me (which ran a low 13) & started after him as well...

But, the big point for me was I checked the stack dash as I went over the line & was reading over 130mph....

I've prior to the event, checked it via GPS & it, worst case was 5mph out...

Thats a 30 mph discrepancy  

I'm not really in any position to comment due to my times etc, but that was my experience anyway 

There was a *lot* of people talking about inconsistent times in the pit lane as well...


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

So it appears that the main issues (for competitors) are:

1. Terminal speeds although as Pavlo mentioned above, this is not the speed across the line, it is the average speed over the last 32ft I believe. Whilst all the terminals appear to be low compared with our across the line speeds, they do appear to be fairly consistent with last years speeds. Perhaps Chris can elaborate on this aspect.

2. Safety. Probably the most important issue which needs some serious changes before any of us will be happy to run again next year. It's only luck that prevented a serious incident this year imo...

3. Top speed. Generally accepted as acceptable as long as every run is timed. I too had one run missed and of all the disciplines, this is the one which you don't really want to repeat if you can help it.

There are the spectator issues which are well documented elsewhere and really do need to be resolved before TOTB4 too...


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

-C- said:


> But, the big point for me was I checked the stack dash as I went over the line & was reading over 130mph....
> 
> I've prior to the event, checked it via GPS & it, worst case was 5mph out...


If you've got the wheel circumference right, the Stack should be very accurate.

Phil


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## IanH (Nov 23, 2002)

Jez said:


> 110mph seems about right to me for a 400'ish bhp GTR.


Thats what my GTT is getting, from santa pod to shakespear raceway to our airfield. Did an event at Elvington (not TOTB) and was getting 99mph tops?

Maybe it's an elvington issue i.e the way the timing gear is setup there (as it's not permanent, unlike Santa Pod etc)?


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

Chris,

You made several promises in this thread with regard to safety.

Why should we take your comments seriously this time ?


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## peatough (Oct 6, 2001)

Chris

I am very surprised about some of your comments regarding Andy Barnes. 

At the end of the day Andy would have been an asset to TOTB3 whatever you say. I am sure that all GTR owners would say the same.


All TOTB`s have been excellent and a credit to you. Surely you can appreciate peoples concerns / frustration regarding fundamental issues such as H&S and timing equipment.

Lets look forward to TOTB4 and make sure it is an improvement on this year. The event is now bid enough and successfull enough to warrant constructive criticism.

Thanks & Regards Chris

Peter


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

Andy Barnes said:


> I dont want to drag this out but I will further add this, what makes you think that we should respect your efforts for a profiting captial enterprise. Its a business Chris, you make it sound like you are doing everyone a favour when you are not, you run this event for your own gain, you have no sympathy nor do you deserve any with regards to the issues raised. As for mr true colours, yes, speaking my mind and laying it down is my colours, and they are not new mate. Say it as you find it is the best honest approach to anything.
> 
> As for me organising one, It wont happen, I am not an events organiser, its not what I do therefore I wont touch it in fear of f%cking it up as I dont know what I am doing, I have the intelligence to realise that prior to doing it you see.
> 
> ...


Andy,

I'm Chris' partner in producing TOTB - I've sat back and watched you personally insult Chris on this and many other websites you linger on for the last two years. I very rarely post on this forum but you really do need enlightening on a few facts. TOTB was personally funded by myself for over 2 years to the sum of five figures. While you were putting up your Sumo display area last year (after being asked not to) for the sole purpose of squeezing every last drop of publicity for television remember that was being subsidised by myself. Despite the fact you were asked to contribute towards it (£20 would have been very welcome at that time) you REFUSED to do so! TOTB has NEVER MADE A FRIKIN PENNY until now. 

For the master of self publicity, who's Sumo Power publicity machine's only existence is raise the profile of your commercial enterprise, for you to say that Chris' reason for starting TOTB is for his own gain is OUTRAGEOUS. Chris Mann has worked tirlessly for over 2 years without reward to put on a unique and spectacular event that everybody can enjoy. What have you contributed to the car scene that did not involve your company making money or making publicity - tell me enlighten me? Chris, for the last 3 months alone has been working until at least 1 in the morning for most of the week in addition to his normal 9-5 job everyday. For what? So a free for all can take place to personally insult him and diminish his efforts at every opportunity. 

Once again I am an investor in your commercial venture in helping raise the profile of your PROFIT MAKING company - 2 weeks ago I finished two new TV programmes for release East v West, once again funded by myself, - despite the history of hatred you have towards Chris and TOTB - both he and I thought the Sumo cars of last year should go into the programme and indeed they are and with pleasure. They didn't need to be there but we put them in anyway. What fools we are. In the meantime please enlighten both me and your customer base of the contributions towards the modified car scene that didn't involve - a/ Making yet more money and b/ Publicity? You have PM.


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

I dont care what anybody says..totb is poorly organised and the spectator viewing is a joke..hence i wont be attending again as i feel 20 quid is a rip off for **** all facilities and like i said i dont care what anybody says the screen was a joke..the public address system was shite as people never knew any results and what was happening..and what was the handing course all about..it was fookin miles away from the viewing area and shite so chris or who ever runs the thing get ur act together.if you cant do it right the first time dont fookin bother


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Adus, i didn't have any problem following what was going on with the 1/4. I was able to see the times as they came up - with the terminals (regardless whether people are questioning them), i had a great view and could see the cars dissapearing WELL into the distance, i could hear the commentary - as well as hearing the updates on which cars were leading which class, and regularly - when a car came to the line, the commentator would often state the previous best 1/4 time and where in the "league" they were in their class. I only spent a short time on the grass side ... and didn't think it was quite so good ... less information available. I also didn't get chance to venture over to the handling circuit. But, from my point of view, i was able to hear all of information I needed and had a great view of the action.


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

sorry if this a dumb question, but how do u run the skyline gtr in rwd mode?


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## R33_wanter (Jun 29, 2004)

i thought i would add a comment in here...wasnt competing, but spectating. i enjoyed the event a lot, perhaps a guidebook of where stuff was would be an idea for the future...if it was sponsored maybe the gate price could reduce. 

my family have organised a few shows at elvington, (going back a couple of years) and i can definately state that this is not at all easy. the cars at our show were static, and it is nowhere near as hard to organise as TOTB, but i think maybe people could give chris a break. 

i obviously understand the perspective of the competitors from the viewpoint that its a waste of time competing if it isnt done properly. but consider this is only the third year. i dont know about last year cos i didnt go.


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Yunis A said:


> sorry if this a dumb question, but how do u run the skyline gtr in rwd mode?


Pull out the fuse mate      

For what it is worth (not a lot from the look of this thread) I never went to TOTB3 and was very much looking forward to no 4 as it would be my first!!

I am sure there is a group of peeps from this and other sites ( myself included) who would be happy to offer any expertise or help we can  

These sorts of events are hard to organise at the best of times and more hands make light (accurate) work. IMHumbleO it is very easy to knock from the other side of the door but the reality is there are allways going to be problems to iron out and the test is whether you can and how you go about it!!
critisism is good but it has to be constructively put and an alternative option would make for easy reconcile  

It is probably not my place to comment on this event but i am sure that the organisers tried very hard to address previous issues and tho there were issues with this event they are to be congratulated on managing to pull off the event at all

JAY


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

Hi Jay,

Criticism is most welcome and if possible will be acted on. 

Do we have an answer yet from Andy for both me and your customer base of the contributions towards the modified car scene that didn't involve - a/ Making yet more money and b/ Publicity?


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## BigBob (Sep 7, 2003)

Personally i think the main issues that need sorting are safety, PA System and timing display.
The Pit Area should allow the cars to be worked on in safety, having people wandering around the cars when some serious fuel is being used is crazy. A simple barrier from one end to the other which can be dropped to allow the cars to pull out is all thats needed.
The PA system was useless unless you were directly in front of the speakers, they were to small and not loud enough.
The timing displays were far to slow, cars were doing their 1/4 mile runs then the times would come up when the next pair were half way down.
The handling should have been switched 180 so the more difficult part was down near the spectators.
I think if you are going to charge £20.00 then you need to host a £20.00 event, i had a reasonable view and enjoyed the day, but safety and organisation needs serious attention.
While i`m on, WTF was that guy on the bike doing there, he fooked off round the handling circuit so no one saw him, fell off then nearly took the side of his van out. His complete routine involved going for a ride, pulling the odd wheelie, falling off and popping an endo which looked a bit dodgy. Next time get someone who can ride a bike!!


Bob


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

For various reasons I wasnt going to pass a comment,

But all I will say is that I think most people who went last year are agreived at the fact that the promised improvements were non existant, and at the end of the day £20 per person on the gate is a lot more than any other UK event. Whilst I agree that this event also boasts the best choice, number & quality of cars for any single UK event that certainly nothing to do with the price of the tickets - ie they are not paying for the cars that turn up.

I believe the expression that best sums it up is once bitten twice shy.

J.


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

We had over 50% more spectator area, a total of six timing display boards 2 @ 4 metres wide and with live updates, video wall with updates every 15 minutes for a running leaderboard, 50% more toilets, 50% more catering, problem was with our 50% increases we had a 100% increase in spectating which effectively cancelled out all the effort we had made


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Im sorry,

That doesnt cut it.

The increases you are describing in facilities would just about have covered the event properly last year. You didnt think that there might be a few more this year then?? And the advance ticket sales didnt give you any kind of a clue to the eventual numbers??

All the 100% increase in numbers highlighted was the fact that you dont seem to understand the relationship between advance sales, advertising and end users. I notice that you still managed to increase the price though, despite the economies of scale working in your favour if you were expecting 50% more people.

I, like many others, feel we have been a bit mugged.

J.


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## BigBob (Sep 7, 2003)

1 big display on that double decker would have been better, the ones near the start were to small unless you were stood on the fence. Then again the bus needed moving so spectators could watch both cars launching.
Toilets needed spreading out a bit, made the pit lane even worse.

Bob


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

bladerider said:


> Im sorry,
> 
> That doesnt cut it.
> 
> ...



? Price has not increased. Advanced tickets were 20% down on last year therefore we were actually expecting less people. So to answer your question I do understand the relationship between advance sales, advertising and end users.


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

It certainly "felt" more expensive...........although this time we came up in a 20mpg car instead of a 30mpg one !!

If the ticket sales were down then I am amazed at how many people just turned up and paid 20quid on the off chance, especially as it must have been a fair trek for alot of em. There were certainly more people saying they were going up this year on the internet, and it even made local sites where people hadnt heard of it before.

Still seemed like another wasted oportunity from where I was stood straining for a view. I just hope it hasnt put too many people off, as it would be a crying shame if this event suffered from lack of spectators and was forced to stop.

J.


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

If I could gurantee 2500 advanced sales the there would be grandstands. 2 grandstands were on standby for the event but the advanced gate was down. Any event organisor anywhere in the world would have taken the same decision and stood them down. I don't know where they all came from either


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Dear "Track day Plus"

Just two questions...........................

Why with all these imporvements did I have to do three top speed runs to get one result?
Why did it take over two hours to get this result?


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

WRT the terminal speeds. I felt my terminals were low for the day, my second run was 11.4ish @113mph. Now I thought this was low, so I checked the log (only logged run) and to my suprise, my Dataloggit software says I was doing 114mph about 11.4seconds after I launched. This was on taller tyres than standard (Impreza) so I think the speed is more or less accurate.

I later managed an [email protected]

Last year there was a big disparity between lanes on the terminals, and I think the faster lane was deffo optimistic.

I don't see what everyones problem is with this, we all competed on the day against each other, it was the same for everyone and with the exception of a few few results (Peter's terminal on his 10sec run) they seemed to be consistent accross the cars and fitted with the overall trend within each class.

If it were a FIA event, or counted in some way for anything but forum/internet bragging rights I would understand.

Paul


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Paul,

Interesting info and nicely put.

My terminal is being looked into as it is clearly incorrect but there may not be an answer to this for a while until the video footage can be studied in detail....


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Laugh*



Trackdayplus said:


> Hi Jay,
> 
> Criticism is most welcome and if possible will be acted on.
> 
> Do we have an answer yet from Andy for both me and your customer base of the contributions towards the modified car scene that didn't involve - a/ Making yet more money and b/ Publicity?


Sorry for the delay, I was not sitting eager at my PC waiting for some kind of response from you yesterday. Your comments about my involvement other forums is inaccurate, we use forums for the cars we own and have genuine interest in these sites, I would love to see the instances you are refering to as they must have happened whilst I was asleep.

My business as Sumo Power is exactly that, a business. Everyone knows that and everyone knows from my personal comments that we dont try top befriend everyone, you like us or you dont, simple. What our contribution to the Japanese scene in general is, is quite clear to just about everyone else. By running our business and cars we have raised the profile of the whole scene along with other key figures and car owners who are in the limelight for various reasons, we have record attendances at drag events, record attendances at shows, record numbers of people interested in the cars and the scene and all the forums that help the scene- its not all attributable to us of course but we are in there somewhere along with all the other guys that own these type of cars the very ones reading this right now. What is unfortunate for you is that you have to rely on our ( the scenes ) big power cars to support your event as lets face it, not disrespect to Ford owners etc but the time has been and gone that record numbers of people would turn up to watch Fiesta's and Cossies run the strip for a unique and specialist event which is TOTB, everyone wants Jap cars and especially Skylines.

As many have said here and elsewhere, you guys promised to make things better and safer, you laid on the event and yes you changed things but it was not what we was all expecting and were indicated would happen, thats it - how could you not expect an uproar?

'Trackdayplus' - You will have PM too,


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## David_Wallis (Aug 12, 2003)

> A simple barrier from one end to the other which can be dropped to allow the cars to pull out is all thats needed.


No, I disagree, I think what is required is fencing down say three car lengths of each queue.. same as they do at melbourne - york dragway.

this may make spectating more difficult though..

How much would it cost for a scaffolding company to build a grandstand? Especially if they were a big firm and got free advertising?? might be worth considering?

I think the event was very well run and the were some 'fit' birds that made up for it!  

I did think the terminals were pretty low, but maybe only by 5mph and if the speed is an average over the last xx foot then I guess it would be pretty easy for the terminal speeds to be out. GPS isnt accurate over the line as most gps units run at 5hz.. datalogs may not be too accurate due to the tyre rolling circumference changing during accelleration.. (might be good enough though) 

At the end of the day it doesnt matter too much like paul said, as all that is required on the day is a comparision between the cars and as long as left and right lane are consistent then there isnt a problem, and just to make sure I allways ran in the right lane as I knew *I[* could make accurate comparisons about my cars performance.

however a couple of points if I may?

The only people whinging about toilets is the women, most blokes dont care how or where they ****! 

People in the PIT lane MUST park in an allocated space or be in one of the three clearly marked lanes..

It was extremely hard to get back to our marquee.. when I had no radiator and some ignorant fookers just parked anywhere..

Also could spectators be made to GIVE WAY to the cars.. the amount of people that walked into my car  Im too kind to run them over but its a lot easier to let the car idle rather than try and slip a paddle clutch.. ie they could look where they are going and bear in mind cars need to move through the pit lane.. after all it is a 'pit lane' - think f1 pit lane  (yes I know.. speed limit)

Also could the payment point me moved to around the corner to allow 4 people selling tickets / taking money.. this would shift the queue quicker..

Is there another enterance onto site which could also be used??

Congratulations on organising another popular and sucessfull event. 

David


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## IanH (Nov 23, 2002)

I think we can take it for granted that TOTB4 will have more people yet again (regardless of slow advanced sales etc) as most people will just turn up on the day, just like this year so maybe getting the grandstands "just in case" is a good idea.

On the saftey side a barrier, to keep people a few feet away from the cars in the pit lane, would be a good idea.


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## GTR R34 (Oct 2, 2002)

What for Suspension setup is there under the r33 monster of rocket ronnie??


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

Thank you Andy and Sumo Power for raising the profile of the modified car scene. Where would we be without you? 

Now could you please answer the question I originally stated as everything you listed was your "business". ie making a pofit from selling Sumo products to people on this forum as well as to other members of the general public. The event attendance - was that to help the event or to raise the profile of your business Sumo Power? 

Could somebody on this forum enlighten us please as I think Andy may be a bit shy coming forward with his response?

Here is what you publicly stated about Chris

"Its a business Chris, you make it sound like you are doing everyone a favour when you are not, you run this event for your own gain, you have no sympathy nor do you deserve any with regards to the issues raised."

As I've said before Chris has worked tirelessly for 2 years with NO FINANCIAL GAIN to stage this event. What have you done for all of us on the scene that didn't involve your own gain? TOTB is not Chris' business Sumo Power is your business - can you not see the difference between the two. One day TOTB will make a profit and it may then become Chris' business

IanH and Dave - fair points - grand stands were on standby but we let them go when our advance ticket sales were slightly down and then our spectators doubled on the day - which way beyond any reasonable expectation and then causing the problems you list  Over 500 times were recorded on the day and there was a legitmate issue with less than 1% of them with such things as lost time cards etc Personally, let me just say that less than 1% is not good enough and we'll do whatever we can to get that to 0%.


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## ahapartridge (May 19, 2003)

Fuggles said:


> Dear "Track day Plus"
> 
> Just two questions...........................
> 
> ...



Snap, although my one of what should have been three results took around 4 hours to appear


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Dear Trackday Plus,

Any chance you could answer my questions???????


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

Hi John,

All the data is to hand we just need to go through it run by run to find your missing ones. When I get back I can do it. As to why you had to wait over 2 hours when the results where updated at Redline every 15 minutes I have no idea. Can only apologise.

Simon


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## SRS (Jan 7, 2003)

*a spectators perspective*

Hi,
I'm not a skyline owner, but have a keen interest in the cars and this forum and have enjoyed going to most of the RWYB events over the last year to spectate and attended this years TOTB for the first time. I'd like to say thankyou to Chris and the team as largely the event was very enjoyable.

I do have a few small gripes which I hope will be seen as constructive criticism as they are coming from a spectators perspective not a competitors one. ...i have tried to suggest solutions too.

Firstly the main problem for me was lack of information, the tannoy seemed to be barely audible unless you were near the start line area - up towards the playstation tent end it was just garbled. The timing boards didn't seem to update that often when I was watching them and the big colour screen was too small to read when stood by the opposite fence and to low res when stood at the near fence! I guess I should have stood in the middle of the track. lol

Safety - I was in the far end of the trade area when the CRD Impreza went into the fencing - this was very scarey as the car sped up and disappeared behind the trade stands very close to where people were stood. It could easily have gone off into those people and fortunately it didn't. I feel some changes must be made to that area to make it safer, some proper tyre barriers perhaps? This might allow the cars to pass nearer to the watching crowds whilst improving safety. I realise this is a dilemma though! 

Back to the CRD Impreza - I was horrified to see that after returning to the tarmac he then preceeded up the exit lane by the stands at one hell of a speed - remember this heads towards the start line area before turning 90 degrees right - I was stood at the end of this, behind the barrier and actually moved off his 'line' in case his brakes didn't work properly  - remember he'd just bounced 8ft in the air into a fence moments before - there needs to be marshalls around this area to slow idiots like this down. 

A shortage of bins made the site a sea of litter which must have been a problem at the end of the day for you guys. Some positioned along near the fences would have helped.

Stands would have been great. Next year perhaps? Oh and could you not put the bus in between the cars! Can you mount the timing boards higher too?

Lastly and maybe I was being a bit dozy but I completely missed the fact that you could get to watch the top speed runs at the other end of the runway and only found out (too) late in the day. Some signage or announcements may have got my attention - apologies if it was only me who missed this. (I didn't get in until 11.30am) 

Just out of interest can you tell us what the attendance figures were?

Anyway mini rant over  - thanks for organising it all and best of luck with next years event. I will be there!

Phil


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## SimonSays (Jun 11, 2003)

Trackdayplus said:


> We had over 50% more spectator area, a total of six timing display boards 2 @ 4 metres wide and with live updates, video wall with updates every 15 minutes for a running leaderboard, 50% more toilets, 50% more catering, problem was with our 50% increases we had a 100% increase in spectating which effectively cancelled out all the effort we had made


Where did you hide these? I only saw the 2 LED displays at the start of the quarter...

As for top speed runs... why not hire a set of transponders, plus a gatso, and you're set. Immediate speed results, transponder is linked to the car, so you don't need to recognise it anymore, and if you hook up a digital camera (or get a digital gatso camera) you can publish pictures live, with the speed printed in the picture. 
I have seen such pictures from a trackday event in the Netherlands, so i'm sure it must be feasible.


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

"Firstly the main problem for me was lack of information, the tannoy seemed to be barely audible unless you were near the start line area - up towards the playstation tent end it was just garbled. The timing boards didn't seem to update that often when I was watching them and the big colour screen was too small to read when stood by the opposite fence and to low res when stood at the near fence! I guess I should have stood in the middle of the track. lol"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Middle of the track, nice one  Bigger and better PA can be done but the problem is the handling competition and 1/4 going on at the same time. Porblem needs sorting - once again we thought we'd had
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Safety - I was in the far end of the trade area when the CRD Impreza went into the fencing - this was very scarey as the car sped up and disappeared behind the trade stands very close to where people were stood. It could easily have gone off into those people and fortunately it didn't. I feel some changes must be made to that area to make it safer, some proper tyre barriers perhaps? This might allow the cars to pass nearer to the watching crowds whilst improving safety. I realise this is a dilemma though! "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calder boys were a bit naughty here to say the least. Got a bit over eager. The off track speed limits was a big part of the driver briefing. All relevant safety requirements were put in place as requested by inusurers and facility. We'll try and bring the handline closer but that may require a increase in height rather than width if you know what I mean
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Back to the CRD Impreza - I was horrified to see that after returning to the tarmac he then preceeded up the exit lane by the stands at one hell of a speed - remember this heads towards the start line area before turning 90 degrees right - I was stood at the end of this, behind the barrier and actually moved off his 'line' in case his brakes didn't work properly  - remember he'd just bounced 8ft in the air into a fence moments before - there needs to be marshalls around this area to slow idiots like this down. 

A shortage of bins made the site a sea of litter which must have been a problem at the end of the day for you guys. Some positioned along near the fences would have helped."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bins grrrr - we had a team of 6 cadets to pick litter all day. They never arrived!!! Took 2 days to tidy up and put the site back to orignal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Stands would have been great. Next year perhaps? Oh and could you not put the bus in between the cars! Can you mount the timing boards higher too?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stands discussed prev post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Lastly and maybe I was being a bit dozy but I completely missed the fact that you could get to watch the top speed runs at the other end of the runway and only found out (too) late in the day. Some signage or announcements may have got my attention - apologies if it was only me who missed this. (I didn't get in until 11.30am) "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3000 programmes - full clour ,maps, charts tables, articles rules. 35 gorgeous glossy pages got delivered the day after the event. This was at huge cost of time and money for both Redline and ourselves - gone to total waste  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Just out of interest can you tell us what the attendance figures were?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Still counting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Anyway mini rant over  - thanks for organising it all and best of luck with next years event. I will be there!"

Thx Phil criticisms received


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

Hi Simon,

2 x metre wide displays were attatched to 8 meter high two towers up either side of the track. Gatso is a really great idea! I think they mess up atfer 170 mph though. But I will investigate as I think thats a really great idea  

Simon


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## SRS (Jan 7, 2003)

*oops!*



> 3000 programmes - full clour ,maps, charts tables, articles rules. 35 gorgeous glossy pages got delivered the day after the event. This was at huge cost of time and money for both Redline and ourselves - gone to total waste


... the word 'bugger' springs to mind.


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

Funny I said that as I opened one up.


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## P20SPD (Aug 5, 2003)

Just picking up on a point there, about the speed limit being raised at the drivers briefing.

1stly Not everyone attended due to not being there on time or couldnt be arsed, bang out of order IMO, they should be made to attend.

secondly, you could not hear a single word Trevor said for 2 reasons, he didnt use a megaphone, and more annoyingly, Dave Gammon with the Black Evo brought his car to the start line as the brifing was going on, not too bad you may think, nah sod it, lets turn the anti lag on.

The briefing should have stopped, and he should have been instructed to turn his engine off. He did when a driver shouted abuse at him.

Steven


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

*Briefing*

It was me that told him to turn his engine off - what an idiot!

Mind you I still couldn't hear anything even after he turned it off................


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## P20SPD (Aug 5, 2003)

You must have done it quietly Guy, as someone swore at him really loudly, and it was then turned off.

Agree, you still couldnt hear anything. I go to Elvington a few times a year, so know Trevors speach now, but i still attend the briefings to ensure nothing has changed.

Nice Ruf by the way


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

Trackdayplus said:


> There was plenty of information telling you all about this in probably one of the best programmes ever printed for a modified car event (20 glossy pages!)





Trackdayplus said:


> 3000 programmes - full clour ,maps, charts tables, articles rules. 35 gorgeous glossy pages got delivered the day after the event. This was at huge cost of time and money for both Redline and ourselves - gone to total waste


Simon, is that 20 or 35 glossy pages 

Seriously though, If you would like to send me a number of these glossy programmes, as *GTROC Librarian*, I'll see that they get distributed to any of our members who request them.


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## David_Wallis (Aug 12, 2003)

I wonder who shouted something really loud... <Waves hand> 

DaveW was stood right beside me.. I turned around and said.. sorry.. kinda came out..

Also... the bus thing.. why not get same scaffolding company to provide a erm.. like bridge over the lines.. perfect for the marshals to see, cameras and something to mount the timing displays on  similar to at the pod?

Also a count down timer until qualifying ends would be nice for next year 

Regards

David


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

Simon (Trackday Plus)

I have to say most of the opinions on this thread are shared by me, but your post above replying to the problems has been the most constructive so far on this thread.

This is without doubt the event of the year in the UK. Collectively, people are spending 100's of 1000's of pounds to be part of this scene. As argueably the most prolific spenders of them all, I'm looking forward to all the points raised on this forum given the time and attention they deserve. Please do your best to share as much information as you can with us so we may, in turn, attempt to help you in the future.

Your problems on the day notwithstanding, I had a fantastic day out and look forward to next years. Shame I couldn't run the Cayenne 

Cem


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

David_Wallis said:


> Also a count down timer until qualifying ends would be nice for next year  David


ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## David_Wallis (Aug 12, 2003)

PSML...

David


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

Trackdayplus said:


> If I could gurantee 2500 advanced sales the there would be grandstands. 2 grandstands were on standby for the event but the advanced gate was down. Any event organisor anywhere in the world would have taken the same decision and stood them down. I don't know where they all came from either


Maybe if you had advertised grandstands people would have been more willing to commit ,after not being able to see to much from the year before.


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

Trackdayplus said:


> Hi John,
> 
> All the data is to hand we just need to go through it run by run to find your missing ones. When I get back I can do it. As to why you had to wait over 2 hours when the results where updated at Redline every 15 minutes I have no idea. Can only apologise.
> 
> Simon


I wouldn`t wait to long John, my crowd were at the end of the runway and there were quite a few cars thatwent through that weren`t logged,unfortunately


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

David_Wallis said:


> The only people whinging about toilets is the women, most blokes dont care how or where they ****!


Oh come on, you can't really mean that can you ?

You pay £20 at the gate, and you are happy to relieve yourself whilst standing up to your ankles in somebody elses pish and shite with flys in a close proximity orbit around your head. 

This used to be the norm in football stadiums 20 years ago, fortunately society has moved on since then.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

*For the fourth time of asking*



Fuggles said:


> Just two questions...........................
> 
> Why ..... did I have to do three top speed runs to get one result?
> Why did it take over two hours to get this result?


Or am I right in guessing you ain't got a feckin' clue and are just making it up as you go along?


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

It's 11 o clock at night I've been back from work for less than 30 mins I will find them and PM you. Making it up as I go along? What was that for? I'm trying to get the data from over 500 runs. I wish I could just press a button.


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Fuggles said:


> Or am I right in guessing you ain't got a feckin' clue and are just making it up as you go along?


Give the man a break ffs John, he did answer you and apologise 8 hours ago.

Reckon this thread has explored most avenues now so unless anybody has anything new and/or constructive to add, I'll close it tomorrow before the bandwagon completely overturns...


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## David_Wallis (Aug 12, 2003)

well said peter


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

Peter said:


> Reckon this thread has explored most avenues now so unless anybody has anything new and/or constructive to add, I'll close it tomorrow before the bandwagon completely overturns...


Please don't do that Pete. Within the odd bit of crap, and self indulgence(you know who you are, naughty) being thrown this thread is actually important. Trackdayplus NEED to have constructive criticism put to them as what is being said is probably what the majority of competitors/paying public are thinking. 

This thread/forum is also giving us as well as them the opportunity to discuss this event for the good. No doubt a lot of other non Skyline people are also looking at this thread. So until this thread breaks down to an unresolvable point Pete perhaps just let it run it's course a bit more and see how it goes.

Oh and I am sure Trackdayplus appreciate this being on GTR.co.uk.

Glen


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Peter said:


> Reckon this thread has explored most avenues now so unless anybody has anything new and/or constructive to addUOTE]
> Just one thing:
> Last year lots of commitments were made to imporevt TOTB for al sorts of reasons - spectators, competitiors safetey, etc. Most of these were either not done or failed to make any difference.
> 
> *Q:* What commitments will be made to improve these matters for 2005? Amd how do we know those organising it will actually 1) stick to their promises 2) make sure the improvements actually work


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

John,

As said many times in previuos threads.Simple fact 50% more money was spent on improvements but despite no prior indications 100% more spectators arrived. We fulfilled our promises - live updated timings, doubling of spectator viewing, doube the toilets, stuff for the kids, - the only one we didn't fulfill was grandstands as advanced ticket sales were down and therfore were expecting less people.


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Trackdayplus,

I suppose what we'd like to hear is what changes and improvements you intend implimenting for next year, particularly with regard to:

1. Safety issues, refuelling, public pitlane access, etc.
2. Spectators.
3. Timing equipment.
4. Results displays.

I know it's still very soon after TOTB3 but I presume you must already be thinking about next year....


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

Blimey, Trackday plus - thanks for your explanations and assurances that the event will improve in the necessary manner for next year. I think people are forgetting - the event was awesome, one of the best I have been to and despite its short comings it was far better than ANY RWYB style event at Santa Pod. I think Chris and TDP clearly see the problems of the event and will do their best to correct it for next year, really none of us have organised an event this big and dont have a clue to the amount of work it creates so give the guys a break.

I dont mind paying £20 if the event is good and the spectators are catered for, simple.

Ant


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Seconded.

The event was great, it felt good to be there, to see the cars, the racing, competing etc. As a competitor I was perhaps a little pre-occupied, but enjoyed the few sessions I took out to just watch. As it was I eat half a cheeseburger all day, peed once, so I didn't really notice the lack of facilities!

Having met people that came from Europe just to watch, they thought it was fantastic too.

Paul


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

I know some people were unhappy,but this was probably dew to dissapointment that the same problems arose from last year. We all need this event to be a success because there is nothing else like this,and the people who take part are fully commited.


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## Trackdayplus (Sep 23, 2002)

Thx for the constructive criticism. Rest assured we are commited to the event and improving it year on year. If you compare what has been added for both spectators and competitors since TOTBI till now, then a lot has improved. We'll do our utmost to improve more by listening to ideas and criticisms. The real killer is never knowing how many spectators will attend


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## Ent (Sep 30, 2002)

why not set a limit on how many people can go? ie...have a enough grandstand for say.....as much as TOTB4 ( or a few more incase 100% more people go again ).
and.....do that advance ticket sale thing in Jan to March, count the sales, order grandstands from the amount of ticket you sold.

after that, work out where the grandstand will go, after that work out where the pit lane will go, after that work out where the handling course will go.

and after all that.....work out how much '' stuff '' each bog can take( if thats possible ) and order as much bogs as possible.....and etc etc

i work in food and drinks......and from what i learn in these years is that i set myself what to do 4 months ( yes......4 months ) befor Dec bookings, and i have never ran into any problems.

ah.....also......ask all those people whos going to compete at TOTB5 to sign up 3months befor, if they dont turn up......thats their problem......and that can also gives you how much time each car will need to do the runs they apply for and work out the time for the finals.

just my 2p worth......

Ent


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

some of the cars didn't even exist 3 months before the event.

The cars are the easist bit, there will always be people willing to fill the spaces, so you can count on 90% or more of the alloted cars coming, and 95% of entrance fees paid if not more.

Allowing grandstand seats for the number of advanced tickets is a good idea I think.

Paul


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## AJFleming (Feb 25, 2003)

Why not actually sell specified grandstand seating? All pre booked and reserved seats. That way people that want the grandstand seating cannot complain. I know I would reserve 1-5 seats.

Ant.


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

I think the problem with that is the logistics of security, it would be cheaper to just have enough seating rather than marshal non-ticket holders.


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## Ent (Sep 30, 2002)

in regards to cars thats not made 3 months befor the event.

how about running a warm up race 1 month befor the event, e.g. set a time frame for each class to run, if your car dont make it in that time frame you cannot race.
i think that means people will have to make sure they have their cars ready waaaaay befor TOTB race, and it also means you can find out if your car is really upto the job in the warm up/know where the problem is befor TOTB....that in turns means everyone knows this is a real tough race and will take it up as a sport rather than '' oh, there is a street car race going on in a airfield.....lets go and see yeah? ''

and errrr........IMO the safety of TOTB......i dont think you can make sure it will be safe unless you know what you are dealing with.

or im talking outta my rear end......again

Ent


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## GTR-NUTTER (Jul 9, 2002)

TDP

m8 you really need to commit now and post up a list of wht you will promise to improve add to next year this way we have some sort of reasurrance(sp)

K


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

Ent,

that's pretty much what was done, subarus had the "scooby shootout" on 31st of may which picked 8 out of the 10 runners. the closing date for entries was end of june so we (the subarus) had 2 new cars and lost another, I think we had 9/10 attendance on the day so better than most I would say.

It's up to the individual clubs to pick there cars, many cars have history, or are run/built by people that we all have confidence in.

The cars side really isn't a problem, at least not this year nor I doubt future years as people are much more on top of what's required to build and maintain them.

Paul


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