# Big brake kit - R32 GT-R



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

My R32 will be here in the next day or two and I am looking for a few tweaks while keeping it as standard looking as possible.

First things to make sure they are 100% are the brakes and suspension.

For now, I'm looking at brakes as the car has HKS suspension and I want to see how good it is first.

On this forum it's possible to get the adapters to fit R35 380mm discs, plus rears.

But Alcon also do a kit that runs 365mm discs and isn't a crazy price. Plus 350mm rears.

Front: Nissan Skyline Brakes Alcon Advantage Extreme front 6 pot Ø365x32 - R32 R33 R34 GTR - JDL-Brakes.com
Rear: Nissan Skyline Brakes Alcon Advantage Extreme rear 4 pot Ø350x28 - R32 R33 R34 GTR - JDL-Brakes.com

Is anyone running the Alcon system or have an idea how it'll compare?

I'm guessing the R35 kit will be similar in performance, maybe a bit better, but will also be heavier adding more weight right where you don't really want it.

Trade off?

Any opinions gratefully received
Thanks guys (and girls)


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

If I'm honest and from experience of handling the 35 brakes, there not the best quality and heavy as sin! 

Alcons and APs are your only options should budget permit. But base it on road or track use or both. Some kits don't have full dust seals so need rebuilding often. I have road spec huge APs on my 135i and there superb. 

Greg


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

If your in essex, have you popped an email/call in Ron at RKs direction? He's your man for advice :thumbsup:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

I'm not convinced by the R35 conversion bar novelty. Alcond or similar all day. Tried and tested and cheaper.


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## pwpro (Jun 6, 2009)

Ran ap's in my Evo for years Richard and they've never failed to impress


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I have the Alcons on my car, great kit, well made, fit fantastically, and work very well!
There are always going to be better things out there, but for the money they are great.
If you are looking for a kit to run on a fast road car/track day car then go for it.

The only thing I didn't like on them is the standard pads that come with them, they don't have any initial bite which I like (they work fine, just don't suit my driving style) but you can order them with track pads or replace them with a pad you prefer (I now have Project MU Club Racer Pads)

Give Daniel at JDL a bell, very easy to deal with, and well priced, he is completely on the other side of the world from me, but it was still cheaper to get them off him!


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

Had both set ups 35s were stronger at high speed less prone to fade,Alcons were very good though.

If I were looking for a strong track set up now, I would go the ceramic route loads of them at breakers or on ebay.

Carbon Ceramic Brakes | eBay


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

You can't go far wrong with those Alcons tbh proper gear and plenty for medium power cars.

I have 360mm APs on the front r33 brembos on the back and they work nicely on the track.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

The Brembo caliper is superior to the alcon that is supplied in the Skyline kit and I have spoken to an ex alcon engineer with many years of experience in the field who has confirmed this. He was somewhat surprised by people are getting rid of the !rembos. He did how ever state that the oem discs are not good at all and recommended either ap or alcon replacements.

I did look long and hard into the braking side - went down the R35 Brembo route because the calipers are very very good in their design build quality and with the right disk and pad can be a very potent setup. Nismo now sell this as a bolt on upgrade for the Skylines at over 9k.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Mookistar said:


> I'm not convinced by the R35 conversion bar novelty. Alcond or similar all day. Tried and tested and cheaper.


I would not say they are cheaper but pretty much the same price as the R35 setup if you go for new discs and pads.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

FRRACER said:


> I would not say they are cheaper but pretty much the same price as the R35 setup if you go for new discs and pads.


I hope your not trying to sell your kit on here?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I have no need to there no personal wealth or gain for me I have a day job that keeps the money coming in :chuckle: But if I believe in something I will stick by it. I would go for Brembo over the Alcon setup on a Skyline. Infact I was looking at the Brembo aftermarket kit before I considered the R35 option.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

So why did you do a group buy then?
And you have not tryed yours yet


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

CT17 said:


> My R32 will be here in the next day or two and I am looking for a few tweaks while keeping it as standard looking as possible.
> 
> First things to make sure they are 100% are the brakes and suspension.
> 
> ...


There's also the Brembo GT (F50) option or the Akebonos from the 370z.

I'd factor a master cylinder replacement and brake stopper into the equation too.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

FRRACER said:


> I have no need to there no personal wealth or gain for me I have a day job that keeps the money coming in :chuckle: But if I believe in something I will stick by it. I would go for Brembo over the Alcon setup on a Skyline. Infact I was looking at the Brembo aftermarket kit before I considered the R35 option.


 No offence, but the 35 kit is a piece of over weight shite, compared to a set of purpose made Alcons/APs 

Having handled a set of mint 35 callipers destine for a 32, i can say they are mass produced decent brakes for a mass produced car! However, they are not quality brakes! Use a set of Alcons/APs and you'll know what I mean! 

Greg


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

FRRACER said:


> The Brembo caliper is superior to the alcon that is supplied in the Skyline kit and I have spoken to an ex alcon engineer with many years of experience in the field who has confirmed this. He was somewhat surprised by people are getting rid of the !rembos. He did how ever state that the oem discs are not good at all and recommended either ap or alcon replacements.
> 
> I did look long and hard into the braking side - went down the R35 Brembo route because the calipers are very very good in their design build quality and with the right disk and pad can be a very potent setup. Nismo now sell this as a bolt on upgrade for the Skylines at over 9k.


I highly doubt the 6pot front and 4pot rear Alcon kit is inferior to the factory 4pot front and 2pot rear factory kit......

Lol! Just cause Nismo sell the factory R35 kit at 9k doesn't mean a lot, EVERYTHING from Nismo is hell expensive!:chuckle:


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

minifreak said:


> No offence, but the 35 kit is a piece of over weight shite, compared to a set of purpose made Alcons/APs
> 
> Having handled a set of mint 35 callipers destine for a 32, i can say they are mass produced decent brakes for a mass produced car! However, they are not quality brakes! Use a set of Alcons/APs and you'll know what I mean!
> 
> Greg


Oh really total shite and over weight?


BRAKE CALIPERS (Per caliper, NO pads)

Alcon Super Kit, Front 6-pot 11 lb 8 oz
Alcon Super Kit, Rear 6-pot 7 lb 2 oz

OEM Nissan Brembo, Front 6-pot 9 lb 2 oz
OEM Nissan Brembo, Rear 4-pot 6 lb 14 oz

BRAKE ROTORS (Per rotor)

Alcon Super Kit 15.75***8221; Front disc & hat 28 lb 8 oz
Alcon Super Kit 15.16***8221; Rear disc & hat 24 lb 10 oz
Alcon Crescent Groove, Front disc & hat 22 lb 12 oz
Alcon Crescent Groove, Rear disc & hat 25 lb 12 oz
AP J-hook Front disc, NO hat 22 lb 0 oz
AP J-hook Rear disc, NO hat 16 lb 8 oz
AP J-hook Front disc & OEM hat 24 lb 6 oz
AP J-hook Rear disc & OEM hat 25 lb 6 oz
AP J-hook Front Mounting Hardware 8 oz
AP J-hook Rear Mounting Hardware 6 oz
OEM Nissan Front disc & hat 24 lb 14 oz* *Slightly used set tested.
OEM Nissan Rear disc & hat 26 lb 4 oz* *Slightly used set tested.
OEM Nissan Front disc, NO hat 22 lb 6 oz* *Slightly used set tested.
OEM Nissan Rear disc, NO hat 17 lb 4 oz* *Slightly used set tested.
OEM Nissan Front Hat ONLY, NO disc 2 lb 0 oz
OEM Nissan Rear Hat ONLY, NO disc 8 lb 8 oz
OEM Nissan Mounting Hardware 8 oz
Performance Friction V2, Front disc & hat 23 lb 6 oz* Weighed by manufacturer
Performance Friction V2, Rear disc & hat 22 lb 11 oz* Weighed by manufacturer

BRAKE PADS (Per caliper, 2 pads total)

Alcon Super Kit (Pagid RS9-2), Front 4 lb 6 oz
Alcon Super Kit (Pagid RS9-2), Rear 2 lb
Carbotech Bobcat 1521, Front 4 lb 12 oz
Carbotech Bobcat 1521, Rear 2 lb 11 oz
Carbotech XP12, Front 4 lb 14 oz
Carbotech XP12, Rear 2 lb 11 oz
OEM Nissan, Front 5 lb* *Slightly used set tested.
OEM Nissan, Rear 2 lb 12 oz* *Slightly used set tested.


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

According to your data which you have there is not that much weight difference infact the Brembo calipers are lighter. The OEM discs are crap and when I do my conversion I would use a set of PF discs front and rear. 

The thread is comical though, everyone trying to add their pence worth of advice. Alcon make great motorsport calipers one cannot deny that. How ever the kit available commercially for the Skyline is far from being that motorsport spec and every man and his dog thinks he is getting the same caliper as per race cars. Hell most would not even be able to maximise the car under braking to even take advantage or the very little performance difference if there is one between the two caliper manufactures.


For a good road caliper dust seals are essential as you would not be servicing calipers regularly, most teams would rebuild after each race. The R35 brembo is a a very good caliper from the same family of calipers used on super cars. If it is good for Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes AMG then I am sure it is good for us Skyline owners.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

What's the cost of a second hand 35 kit compared to a brand new Alcon kit?


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

I am looking for a kit for around 1300-1500 add another 800 odd for brackets. You are looking at 2100-2300. All else are consumables such as discs and pads. Alcons seem to go for 3000-3600 for a complete setup.

If people stop being blinded by brand names and care to look into things in a non biased way and work out the merits and weakness of each kit it would be helpful for all rather than making sweeping statements such as R35 brakes are shite and overweight.


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

rogerdavis said:


> According to your data which you have there is not that much weight difference infact the Brembo calipers are lighter. The OEM discs are crap and when I do my conversion I would use a set of PF discs front and rear.
> 
> The thread is comical though, everyone trying to add their pence worth of advice. Alcon make great motorsport calipers one cannot deny that. How ever the kit available commercially for the Skyline is far from being that motorsport spec and every man and his dog thinks he is getting the same caliper as per race cars. Hell most would not even be able to maximise the car under braking to even take advantage or the very little performance difference if there is one between the two caliper manufactures.
> 
> ...


Interesting post , you say it's comical to post opinions and then you do just that yourself :chuckle:

He is asking for opinions so .....

For what CT wants imho you don't need to go into a lot of technical detail either aps or Alcon will be perfect
Personally I find aps great and stopped my stagea quite a few times from 160+ to around 50 mph alarmingly quickly at Marham with no fade at all and that's carrying at least another 200kg
And they have no history of cracking either


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

Do calipers crack? Lol

No one on this thread has said that the OEM discs are better. We are discussing calipers here with people saying the Alcon caliper as supplied in the Skyline BBK is much superior to the R35 Brembo.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

No one has ever mentioned that the Alcon kit is Motorsport spec.
They are a great upgrade calliper/rotor from the inadequate factory brakes, and easier to fit.
The R35 brakes will also be a great upgrade, just a hell of a lot harder to fit......but it don't think either is going to be any better that each other.

.....I'm pretty happy with my Alcons


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## WillRobDon (Jul 29, 2006)

How can people say a Brembo monoblock caliper is crap? What a crock of obvious. I'm sure the Alcons are fantastic.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

FRRACER said:


> BRAKE CALIPERS (Per caliper, NO pads)
> 
> Alcon Super Kit, Front 6-pot 11 lb 8 oz
> Alcon Super Kit, Rear 6-pot 7 lb 2 oz
> ...


Out of interest, are you sure that Super Kit is for an R32-R34 Skyline GT-R and not the R35?

Because I had the Alcon Super Kit on my R35 and the Callipers were absolutely huge and only just fitted inside the 20" rims.

Plus the Alcon Super Kit for the R32/3/4 is a 6 pot front and 4 pot rear, not 6 and 6.
The R35 Super Kit is 6 and 6 pot.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

The weight comparisons are for the R35, IE R35 Super kit vs R35 OEM. Not sure what the weights are of the Skyline Alcon kits, discs would obviously be lighter as the are 365mm but caliper weights could be interesting.


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## cox (Jan 21, 2012)

i have the alcon 365mm on my 32 .... they are fantastic... already had the alcon on my ex evo7... but 343mm.... it was the same.... fantastic brakes....at great price.....


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

FRRACER said:


> The weight comparisons are for the R35, IE R35 Super kit vs R35 OEM. Not sure what the weights are of the Skyline Alcon kits, discs would obviously be lighter as the are 365mm but caliper weights could be interesting.


Ah, I didn't realise that, thought it was quoted differences between the R35 calipers as an upgrade and the Alcons for the R34/3/4 to compare.

Obviously the Alcons run a 365mm front disc instead of a 380mm one so do in theory have the potential for better braking with upgraded pads and discs (didn't rate my R35 ones that highly as they fade quickly due to the weight of the car) so it would be interesting to see how much lighter the Alcon set up for the R32/3/4 is once you factor in calliper, brackets and disc weights.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

you've got to take into account you can pick up second hand Skyline kits for circa £1200, see AlexGTR thread


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Mookistar said:


> you've got to take into account you can pick up second hand Skyline kits for circa £1200, see AlexGTR thread


Indeed Mook, but I want the best compromise of weight and braking.
The new vs 2nd hand and cost issues are not such a huge priority.

That's why had the Alcon Superkit on my R35 and they were epic.
Even other R35 driver's couldn't believe how good they were over the stock set up.

If only I could get Ceramic... 

Still wondering if those Aston Martin ceramic discs someone linked to on ebay could be made to fit. :chuckle:
(probably too much hassle, maybe that's brake kit 2 in the future)


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## kociek (Jul 18, 2011)

CT17 said:


> Indeed Mook, but I want the best compromise of weight and braking.
> The new vs 2nd hand and cost issues are not such a huge priority.
> 
> That's why had the Alcon Superkit on my R35 and they were epic.
> ...



plus the fact they not coming at that price often either.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

CT17 said:


> If only I could get Ceramic...


Dont see why you couldn't source a set of ceramics from, say, Porsche/Ferrari/Aston etc.

All you would need are brackets and bells made up which a few companies could easily do. As engineering tasks go, this is in the "relatively simple" category..

TT


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## DD31 (May 5, 2009)

Sub Boy said:


> Give Daniel at JDL a bell, very easy to deal with, and well priced, he is completely on the other side of the world from me, but it was still cheaper to get them off him!


Thanks for your kind words Chris.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

tarmac terror said:


> Dont see why you couldn't source a set of ceramics from, say, Porsche/Ferrari/Aston etc.
> 
> All you would need are brackets and bells made up which a few companies could easily do. As engineering tasks go, this is in the "relatively simple" category..
> 
> TT


Whs


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## GTR Cook (Apr 22, 2008)

Not sure if they do a kit for the 32 but have you looked at Stop Tech? Mine are awesome on the 34 and really impressed with them.


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

GTR Cook said:


> Not sure if they do a kit for the 32 but have you looked at Stop Tech? Mine are awesome on the 34 and really impressed with them.


+1 :thumbsup:

I have the R33 355x35mm heavy duty kit front and the R32 328x28mm kit rear (with 1 size bigger piston diameter than standard for better rear brake bias) and it's superb 

Lots of pad options, quick available spare parts at a good price...

...just be careful with pads you choose for front. For fast tracks with hard braking DS2500 up front are to weak and will cause judder soon. Will go for Endless pads CC-Rg next season all round which should solve this issue then.

Big advantage you can use the kit with some 17" rims (I'll use my LM-GT4's for slicks) and every available 18" rim without any trouble 

And the number of pistions is definitely not so important compared to other factors. You just can brake until a wheel locks up and the ABS engages and this you can do with almost every caliper, even with the stock one, it's about how often you can do it without getting into trouble 

I think all these brake kits are good quality and in a similar price range, AP, Alcon, Stop Tech, Brembo...

...at the end of the day it's more personal preference I'd say and each kit has it's own pros and cons (when it's about weight, Stop Tech is the only one as far as I'm aware with the rear bells bein alloy too).

HTH

Leo


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

The whole 'what brake kits do you use' thing has been done to death..

You can make convincing arguments for ANY manufacturer. I think, if your REALLY committed and fancy pushing some boundaries, then carbon ceramic nay be the way forward. Kits are relatively easy to get hold of (albeit still pricey) and the hardware (bells, mounts) would be easy to make. 
On thinking about it, it strikes me as odd why no one has gone this route before TBH...

TT


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I agree it has been done to death, you will always have fanboys for certain brands and some do not even understand why brand x is better than brand y. All the major brands, AP, Alcon and Brembo there is very little to chose. 

Second tier brands like Wilwood, D2, etc are obviously priced for those on a budget and you cannot expect the same quality.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

FRRACER said:


> I agree it has been done to death, you will always have fanboys for certain brands and some do not even understand why brand x is better than brand y. All the major brands, AP, Alcon and Brembo there is very little to chose.
> 
> Second tier brands like Wilwood, D2, etc are obviously priced for those on a budget and you cannot expect the same quality.


I'll have to disagree with you there..

I have wilwood P6R front calipers and IR-GT rears and they are fantastic quality...I challenge anybody to provide me with a robust argument as to why they are inferior to AP, Brembo etc.
At a cost of over £4k for the pair of calipers alone (not including pads!) makes them actually more expensive than most AP's etc. Now im convinced that Wilwood (being a supposedly value brand) wouldnt just charge stupid money for no reason. You could make the analogy that Wilwood is the Nissan GTR of the brake world. AP, Brembo and Stoptech are the established brands but Wilwood gives them all a bloody nose for LESS money. ( the exception being the P6R :chuckle

TT



TT


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Is that a monoblock caliper? I googled it, but found this


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## Swobber (Oct 8, 2006)

FRRACER said:


> Is that a monoblock caliper? I googled it, but found this


Thats the stupidly expensive lightweight ultra super mega racing bells .... :clap:


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Yes, very good.......seems folks cant put up pics of (clearly marked) 'mock-up parts' without being dragged through the hedge.
:chairshot:chairshot

The caliper in the shot is the std R32 2-pot.

TT


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Hey I use wilwood on mine and they are very good. I put the hole kit together with bells and mounting brackets for under a grand and still have enough alloy to do 4 more bells


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

I am sure Godspeed can supply brackets and bells IIRC they are wilwood dealers. TT are you going make your own bells?


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

rogerdavis said:


> I am sure Godspeed can supply brackets and bells IIRC they are wilwood dealers. TT are you going make your own bells?


I WAS going to, but after meeting a chap at Rallyday a couple of months back and the price his company could do me some quality bells for, it would be madness not to farm the bells out TBH...

TT


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Just to point out that it would seem that Wilwood are offering carbon ceramic discs now in their product range. Shame they dont do them in my size or i'd be very interested!!

Might open up options for some others. Given the exchange rate the discs arent all that bad!!

TT


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Mookistar said:


> I'm not convinced by the R35 conversion bar novelty. Alcond or similar all day. Tried and tested and cheaper.


Almost two years on have you had a chance to change your mind Mike? More than happy to take you for a spin and demonstrate the braking capabilities of these brakes


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

FRRACER said:


> Almost two years on have you had a chance to change your mind Mike? More than happy to take you for a spin and demonstrate the braking capabilities of these brakes


Baring in mind I run the Alcon Superkit (which has smaller discs) I think the ideal thing would be a comparison of your car and mine under braking.

I do like my Alcons, but if I would switch to the R35 set up if it's not adding much extra unsprung weight. And it stops better.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Using your DTM II see what kind of peak G you are generating under braking. Obviously not fully conclusive because tyres and tarmac grip is also a factor.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

FRRACER said:


> Using your DTM II see what kind of peak G you are generating under braking. Obviously not fully conclusive because tyres and tarmac grip is also a factor.


Or V-Box.

Probably easier as I still haven't worked out the DTM thingy. :runaway:
Might have to pinch your instructions...


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I used Akis blog had all the needed info in his review


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

FRRACER said:


> I used Akis blog had all the needed info in his review


I've got detailed English instructions somewhere, just need to find them...
Or as you say, that blog.


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