# RB30 block limit found? got crack for xmas :-(



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

After the turbo failier a couple of weeks ago I thought I'd give the old girl a going over before the next meeting on the 3rd Jan.

Pulled out the plugs and No2 had coolant on it, WTF? :chairshot

I checked the radiator overflow bottle and it was showing fuller than usual on the sight tube. :bawling:

I drained the oil to check if there was any coolant in the sump, nothing. 

A slow wind over by hand showed coolant comming out the No2 spark plug hole :nervous:

Off with the sump and we found traces of coolant (was below the level of the bottom of the sump plug hole so didn't show when we drained the oil) checked a couple of big end bearings, all mint.

Wondered if we had a blown head gasket so pulled the head off, all mint, gasket fine, head fine, top of block fine. :nervous:

Wound the motor over again and as No2 piston dropped, there she be, a nice big verticle crack for xmas :bawling::bawling:

The piston is fine from that bore, just a few very light scratches so it must have JUST happened on that run.

Jase went through the data of the first run that day, A/Fs stable the whole run, went through the data of the 2nd run and just after the big bump in the track the A/R started to get slightly richer and richer over the next 5 seconds.

All very strange as on the practise day we had the power turned right down so we'd only run 7.8s or so because we didn't want to go under the CC/D record (which we now weighed into) untill the following day in competition. 

A little more investigation found the motor plate bolts a little lose and the left front engine mount broken, could the twisting load have been putting excessive pressure on the right hand engine mount? Did the tyre shake on both runs and massive bumps in the track jolt everything so hard it broke the mount and cracked the block? my gut feeling is yes because the crack in the No2 bore is directly in line with the middle of the right hand mount. :nervous:

Check how the camera jumps about 75 meters out:
RIPS FED second practise run NZDRA summer Nationals 11 Dec 2011 - YouTube

Someone else who watched the video commented that the diff sounded real noisey, as far as I could tell the sound hadn't changed as long as I had had the car but thought while I'm at it I better check that too and OMFG looked like it had just finished 5 rounds with Tyson there were that many teeth chipped :chairshot:chairshot

So here I am with a cracked block for the first time, a stuffed diff and a stuffed turbo and a meeting on the 3rd Jan and another on the 7th, both I'm committed too , merry xmas to me, lol.


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## alternatengine (May 17, 2006)

Ho Ho Holy Shit!

Unfortunately nothing constructive to say except I'm guessing there'll be a few sleepless nights ahead?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Most blokes on here would probably love a bit of vertical crack for Christmas Rob! 

Good luck with the rebuild.


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

Bugger. Grab another one out of the shed a rebuild it. Maybe oil squirters would have saved it :clap:


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

matt j said:


> Most blokes on here would probably love a bit of vertical crack for Christmas Rob!
> 
> Good luck with the rebuild.


:clap:

Good luck building another engine before the meeting!


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

That's bad news Rob, but not that bad when it comes to the limit the RB30 can take still,

We are talking ... what 1800hp ? 

That's double the amount most will get up to anyway, so it's not all that bad news 

As for the verticle crack, as matt indicated.. couldn't be any better for xmas.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Have you considered lining the block to prevent future re-occurrence?


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## black bnr32 (Jan 20, 2011)

Rob, I appreciate you posting your findings. thanks.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

so what your trying to say is that for christmas your having a new engine and diff ! You lucky boy. 


Sounds good to me lol. 



does sound like the failed engine mount must be the course. Think the new GTR engine cracks blocks in similar place around engine mounts?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

R32 Combat said:


> Have you considered lining the block to prevent future re-occurrence?


I've thought about it but I really don't think it was a bore strength problem as such, we had the power right down, we know the crack can't have been there the run before (or cracked all the way through at least) although the motor plate may have worked lose and the left front mount may have broken on the previous run when we hit the bumps. 

With the way the engine is solid mounted the block is in effect part of the chassis so with a rear motor plate able to twist slightly and the left front engine mount broken there would have been huge load on the block right beside No2 bore when we got tyre shake and then hit the bumps.

The crack is *exactly* in the middle of the lugs that come out of the block for the engine mount to bolt to.

The bottom end has been fully stripped now and everything is fine, the crank is like new, the bearings are all real nice for the amount of work done and the piston in that bore has only very light scratches a bit of scotchbright rubbing will sort out, I just need to swap everything over into another block and we should be good to go again.

My goal is to do a 6 on a stock block without liners, or any enlarged threads for bigger studs etc, a standard crank, std cradle, stock mains bolts, wet sump etc so we'll just repair it as it was and sort out the mounts but I may look at a 1/3 or 1/2 block fill if we can sort out an easy way to keep it fully water cooled with the stock water pump etc, I've never filled a block before but I hear a few of the track guys in the UK have done it so it should be do-able the way I want to with any luck.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Some new pics again rob? did your wife get you a camera for christmas LOL


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Yet more conclusive evidence of how unreliable those vL commodore engines are


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## Hja-Ozz (Oct 8, 2007)

Rob do you log individual cylinder egt's?

interesting point about the engine mounts, seen various different spec Rb26's crack liners and they all seem to be on no.2 aswell.


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## Jakobsen (Dec 19, 2007)

wow those pistons look like new,and the bearings also looks good. How long has the engine been operating ?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Yet more conclusive evidence of how unreliable those vL commodore engines are


Yep, might have to look at installing oil squirters in this next one 




Hja-Ozz said:


> Rob do you log individual cylinder egt's?


No we havn't done that yet, in this chassis we arn't leaning on the motor very hard compared to how we use to push it in the 240z without egt sensors but when we get to the point we can really push it hard we may look at doing that.




Hja-Ozz said:


> interesting point about the engine mounts, seen various different spec Rb26's crack liners and they all seem to be on no.2 aswell.


Thanks, that helps to back up our theory that its load comming from outside thats caused it, not too much power for the bore etc.




Jakobsen said:


> wow those pistons look like new,and the bearings also looks good. How long has the engine been operating ?


This motor has been running since the 3rd of Feb but we knew the turbo was in real bad shape then, the motor has done a fair bit of work at alot of meetings since and we are lucky enough to currently lead all 3 drag championship series running in NZ with it, although it was a bitzer motor we threw together in a hurry in Feb its a shame it looks like it failed due to tyre shake and bumps in the track, sure looks to me like it was easily in good enough condition to do alot more runs yet. :bawling:

Luckily this is the only reasonable break we get between meetings or there's no way we'd have a chance of getting so many things sorted in time.

We have our fingers crossed that with a new turbo (still a 45), a new diff and some new tyres to try we might be in for a bit of a surprise.

We need to get to 1/2 track in 4.40-4.45 seconds at 160-165mph (265kph) to be on the money for a good 1/4 mile ET, time will tell.

Rob


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Some new pics again rob? did your wife get you a camera for christmas LOL


Nah same camera mate, but hey, at least I've got nothing to hide and I'm willing to share my experiences both good and bad aye :thumbsup: pretty sure alot of guys would keep things like this very quiet.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Nah same camera mate, but hey, at least I'm willing to share my experiences both good and bad aye :thumbsup: pretty sure alot of guys would keep things like this very quiet.


you think ? :nervous:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

mattysupra said:


> you think ? :nervous:


I know :thumbsup:


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

What do you think caused the damage to the diff, the amount of power going through it?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Simonh said:


> What do you think caused the damage to the diff, the amount of power going through it?


The bolts that hold the crown wheel onto the spool were all lose.

It turns out the crown wheel has 2 sets of holes so you can run std sized bolts or larger aftermarket bolts, the spool also has 2 sets of threads to suit, what we found was who ever put it together god knows how long ago put the small bolts through the large holes in the crown wheel and then used copper wire for tie wire :chairshot 

We now have a set of used gears mounted with the small bolts through the small holes, loc-tighted and wired with proper tie wire.

Big thanks to Miles at Driveline Automotive for getting that sorted for me on such short notice :clap:


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## GTS4-R (Aug 6, 2010)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


>


PERFECT ring break-in 

subscribed


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## Infomotive (Oct 22, 2009)

GTS4-R said:


> PERFECT ring break-in
> 
> subscribed


Good observation. Nothing like a quick 7 sec 400m to get a great ring seal with a well built engine and good tuning:thumbsup:
equally impressive is the sheer number of 7 sec runs on those pistons.
Jason


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## playasyougo (Nov 29, 2003)

Rob, great reading information as always. 

If you're willing to share, what's your recommended break-in procedure for freshly rebuilt road engines? And as is the same for race engines?


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## RB26 240Z (Dec 29, 2007)

Hope you get it all sorted in time for your next meeting.


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## Tobie (Apr 22, 2009)

Never mind the oil squirters......... one hole bearings? :clap: :nervous:

Hope all goes well with the new engine.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Infomotive said:


> Nothing like a quick 7 sec 400m to get a great ring seal with a well built engine and good tuning:thumbsup:


Amen to that.



Infomotive said:


> Equally impressive is the sheer number of 7 sec runs on those pistons. Jason


Yeah, the CPs are great, these pistons have been in operation for more than 4 seasons of top level competition with 100s of 7 second runs under their belts and they are still in great shape.



Tobie said:


> Never mind the oil squirters......... one hole bearings? :clap: :nervous:


Another Myth busted  I've never used multi hole mains in a RB30.



playasyougo said:


> If you're willing to share, what's your recommended break-in procedure for freshly rebuilt road engines? And as is the same for race engines?


Work them hard and fast right from the get go, on a dyno with correct tuning in 20-30 minute intervals increasing the load/rpm each time with an oil change at the end of each, within 100-150 miles and on the 3rd to 4th session you should be at full power/max rpm, do 3-4 pulls to finalise tune, change oil to your desired final type and job done.

One of the best street engines I ever built was driven from brand new 150 miles to the dragstrip, oil changed there and then straight into competiton running low 10s, that motor was still going strong 7 years later with oil changes and plugs only, then it got stolen.

Main thing is DO NOT pussy around, give it load with a good tune a.s.a.p.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

That pic of the piston you can see where you have had the scotch brite pad round them before the pick. LOL


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## adamsaiyad (Aug 23, 2006)

Rob did you scotch B that piston before the pic?


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## adamsaiyad (Aug 23, 2006)

just asking to clarify what Mr Andy is saying ? but if not then that is a perfect run in


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> That pic of the piston you can see where you have had the scotch brite pad round them before the pick. LOL


No shit shirlock, lol, I said the piston from No2 would be fine with a quick touch up with scotchbright. check post #10.

With regards to cleaning up below the top ring grove as your implying, I assure you that was not touched with the pad and they all came out looking like that, only the skirts got a light rub.

You seriously think I'd bother cleaning up the V groove under the top ring just for pictures especially when I'm not the one who commented on ring seal? it wasn't even on my mind, I've got alot more than that to worry about. Nice try though :thumbsup:


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoiKoIZ7wwo


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## GTS4-R (Aug 6, 2010)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> You seriously think I'd bother cleaning up the V groove under the top ring just for pictures especially when I'm not the one who commented on ring seal? it wasn't even on my mind, I've got alot more than that to worry about. Nice try though :thumbsup:


:clap: lol

thanks for the break-in tips. Kinda what i was fishing for haha.... i like to go hard at break in as well but i like to hear everyones methods especially since they vary wildly from engine builder to engine builder.

I really like motoman's method (similiar/same as yours) Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Just for Andy, here's some of the same brand of pistons just as they came out of a 3 year old street/drift/track engine:



Isn't it normal to have the piston clean below the top ring?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Crank as it came out, wasn't polished, just cleaned and good to go again:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Getting there.......almost divorced but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Everything stock except the pistons and rods:







Big thanks to Regal automotive for boring and decking a block for me on such short notice.

We've decided to go with one of the GTX45s off our twin turbo VK56 dragster, Steve Murch took on the job at short notice to machine the FEDs turbine housing to suit so we have a direct bolt on fix and with any luck we'll have everything else fixed and be all back together in time for the 3rd of Jan.

I don't suppose much will be happening on the 1st, lol, so we better get stuck in now, lets hope the old tractor motor delivers the goods :thumbsup:.


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## hytech (Feb 26, 2003)

Rob, What event is on the 3rd Jan?

Ignore that question Rob  I see it's an event in Taupo.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

keep the pictures coming


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## adamsaiyad (Aug 23, 2006)

*Rob is a Legend*

Rob what a way to go into the new year brilliant passion all the way thats why this man doesnt have a Job he has a passion and the passion has become his job you have to admit loving what you do means going to play everyday at work 
Thats why me going to work feels like a chore ..... lol


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Hi Rob, Not such a Happy Christmas but hopefully a prosperous New Year!

What I cannot fathom out is how the bits got from the turbo into the diff to chew up the crown wheel? Or is a turbo charged diff one of your trade secrets? :runaway:

Regarding block filling. The RRR Block on the Garage Bomber was 'half filled'. It seemed to have very little effect on water temp but oil temps went up 5+ degrees. So we saw 90-100 whereas before was 80-90.

Conclusion was that water temp heat generally comes from the 'upper areas' where the bangs are (no shit sherlock!), so removing the relatively cooler lower area from the heat pick up had minimal temperature impact. The oil we decided was because having removed the water cooling effect from lower region meant the 'slack' had to be taken up by the oil. It was debatable if the oil picks the heat up anyway but then transfers to water normally by thermal transfer (in block) which is now missing, or that the bottom end really was running slightly hotter and this was reflected in oil temps. Might have been interesting to have some temp sensors fitted around the block, but you work that out later!

Operationally on the engine, power and reliability it seemed to make no difference filling the block and not even sure if weight of displaced water was more/less than weight of cement!

Now, the cement went in to actually 'strengthen' the block. Which it in fact must do, but was it actually needed, or did it do it to any significant degree? 

In truth, I don't think we actually managed to prove it one way or the other. A RRR is naturally stronger anyway due to extra material and it was debatable how much of a problem it really was. Like you have found, if the external forces are great enough would cement save (mask?) the problem? 

I suppose the answer is 'it depends'! If as you say Rob, the mount gives up and passes stress to block. That force could well be immense under the circumstances you refer to, so is anything going to readily take it?

Our ultimate conclusion on block filling was; not worth the hassle for the 'perceived' benefit and would not bother again.

Better to maybe add 'check the engine mounts' as part of your event checklist! (and fix the tyre shake!  )

DaveG


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## adamsaiyad (Aug 23, 2006)

nice write up there was a team in Southern Africa that has also filled their blocks but this was because apparently the blocks could not hold up to the 850Bhp lol.....
Any ways to be honest for me its all research as i have never run anything close to 400 bhp on any car for that matter .
I would think if you installed darton sleeves it would make sense.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Cheers ATCO, we are very confident the crack came from external load, not power etc so we will keep a much closer eye on the motor plate bolts and regularly check the engine mount (even when it was broken you couldn't see untill it was unbolted and seperated so will need a keen eye to spot it in place)

Adam, I think liners would be a good idea if the bore had split due to power but if you put liners in and the crack *was* from an external source I think all that would happen is the remaining parent bore after installing the liners which would be VERY thin, would still crack, you'd then potentially have a lose liner and you'd probably get coolant into the sump, just not through the bore itself.

Due to time and what we feel was the cause of the problem we've just gone with stock bores again.


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## geoffree (May 16, 2010)

Not to well documented but the Gibson team split blocks similarly.
Same worry, was it an external force or just too much Hp.
Improved engine mount design got them sorted and then the heavier ribbed blocks probably fixed the whole show.
Removing parent metal to add sleeves would surely weaken the block.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

geoffree said:


> Not to well documented but the Gibson team split blocks similarly.
> Same worry, was it an external force or just too much Hp.
> Improved engine mount design got them sorted and then the heavier ribbed blocks probably fixed the whole show.
> Removing parent metal to add sleeves would surely weaken the block.


I'd heard of that and I've seen pictures of the engine mounts they ended up with, we may look at a similar system if we have this problem again.

My gut feeling is we'll be fine as we have run ALOT more power through a stock block in this chassis when the motor plate bolts were tight and the engine mount wasn't broken. 

With what we found its very easy to see how the load would have all ended up on the right hand mount and you couldn't crack the bore more central between the mounting bosses if you tried.

No time to do anything other than get it back mounted the way it was.

Rob


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

are your engine mounts solid or stock mounts maybe?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

mattysupra said:


> are your engine mounts solid or stock mounts maybe?


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Rob, nice mount bracket, simple and mechanically right. Is there any chance you could use a simple strain guage or similar on the bracket to give you a heads up on failure if its hard to spot?

Does it also need to be completely solid mount? There is bound to be vibration stresses going through and certain (resonant) frequency(s) (maybe coupled with that of tyre shake AND the bump) might have been what tipped things over the edge.

If you are always at risk of tyre shake (as it may be considered unpredictable unless it happens every time!) and so on, either adapt that bracket form slightly to change resonant frequency effects (what Gibson did? - I've not seen a pic of their mount) or something as simple as fibre washers against the mount just to damp things a little and provide a very slight give?

Or just use thicker metal!

Just some suggestions for consideration. 

DaveG


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## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I'd heard of that and I've seen pictures of the engine mounts they ended up with, we may look at a similar system if we have this problem again.
> 
> My gut feeling is we'll be fine as we have run ALOT more power through a stock block in this chassis when the motor plate bolts were tight and the engine mount wasn't broken.
> 
> ...


Thankfully it was just the block and not any of the internals or the head - Would suck to have to run it in all over again.

I'm glad to see you seem to be getting it all back in good shape Rob, but I feel bad that you were burdened with such a lousy Christmas gift.

If it makes you feel any better, I got a tub of chicken and a 6 months subscription to Hustler that I'll never use (Got it as a gift from a friend for XMAS), so if you want it, it's yours.

Well, maybe not the chicken. I kind of still want that.


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

6speed said:


> Thankfully it was just the block and not any of the internals or the head - Would suck to have to run it in all over again.
> 
> I'm glad to see you seem to be getting it all back in good shape Rob, but I feel bad that you were burdened with such a lousy Christmas gift.
> 
> ...


New block so still got to run it in clown. Rings still have to bed in.


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## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

rb30r34 said:


> New block so still got to run it in clown. Rings still have to bed in.


Don't call me a clown, just didn't know.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

rb30r34 said:


> New block so still got to run it in clown. Rings still have to bed in.


How long does it take to bed in rings?
How long does it take to bed in shells?


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## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

rb30r34 said:


> New block so still got to run it in clown. Rings still have to bed in.


Hey tough guy, just did a bit of independent research. Someone (Not you) correct me if I'm wrong here, but shouldn't really be any more than 20 miles of driving in to run in the rings.

That means Rob could do it in his garage with the throttle a bit down for about 20 minutes, and he'd be fine.

If that's a running in time, than I guess a full rebuild running in time is considered an entire civilization cycle.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

3 or 4, 3 to 4 minute sessions is all it will get and it gets light-medium load within 10-20 seconds of initial fire up and NOS and full throttle on the transbrake by the last one, then an oil and filter change and then off to the strip.

Our initial tune will be around a 7.70-7.80 pace so it won't be working particularly hard for the first 2 or 3 runs, by then its open season and I'd have no issue running full power and up to 10,000rpm if needed.

So all told, maybe 15-20 minutes from fresh (with alot of that being warm up time each session) before its run at full power/rpm.


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

I didn't say how long it takes to run in any motor. Simply that the rings needed to bed in therefore be run in. It doesn't take long at all. It doesn't take long to run in a brand new engine either. 

Basically, even if it was a brand new engine, having to run it in isn't an issue at all in the scheme of things. So your comment had no merit.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

how come engines are advised to take it steady for 1000 miles to run in? i remember every car my dad purchased back in the 80 / 90's had to be run in for 1000 miles. 

The new GTR i think has around 1000 mile run in also? 

My engine builder wanted me to do 1000 miles run in? 

So it amazes me that RIPS (and others) take under 1 minute to run a engine in? Is it because your not running in for road use? is it the way the rings are gapped maybe? for instance i would presume the rings are gapped for drag/nos use rather than a street/drag gap? 

Working it out, if the FED does 100 passes then its around the same mileage as street car doing 4 miles around about? obviously with a lot more stress. 

also looking at Robby's pistons he does look like he has very good ring seal? 

Interested in Robby's views on the run in process and if he was to gap rings for road use i.e the BORG would you only do a light run in still Robby?


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## 6speed (Jul 18, 2006)

mattysupra said:


> how come engines are advised to take it steady for 1000 miles to run in? i remember every car my dad purchased back in the 80 / 90's had to be run in for 1000 miles.
> 
> The new GTR i think has around 1000 mile run in also?
> 
> ...


From what I understand, the RB30 in the FEED is from the old S30Z Rob used to own, that was a streetcar, before a half street drag car, before a full on drag car.

So I imagine it got run in pretty well over it's time.

But I too, have to wonder about this new block and such a short run in process. I mean, I have no question that the turbine is well run in, as well as the head and cams, etc. But is it just as simple as topping her up with oil and gas and slowly working her in? Or is there some finesse to it, because of the new block?

I can understand on a new car, parts need to be well lubricated, various internals need to be heat checked, etc, but on a race car, I too, am intrigued.

Fill us in Rob!:clap:


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## plumwerks (Dec 15, 2006)

Hard and fast has become the new norm guys,many top pros and regular builders are supporting this method.
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power


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## WHITER33 (Feb 4, 2009)

> I've thought about it but I really don't think it was a bore strength problem as such, we had the power right down, we know the crack can't have been there the run before (or cracked all the way through at least) although the motor plate may have worked lose and the left front mount may have broken on the previous run when we hit the bumps.
> 
> With the way the engine is solid mounted the block is in effect part of the chassis so with a rear motor plate able to twist slightly and the left front engine mount broken there would have been huge load on the block right beside No2 bore when we got tyre shake and then hit the bumps.
> 
> ...


I had my block filled to the bottom of the welsh plugs and still run the stock water pump. Car sits on about 84c cruising the streets. I also have a huge oil cooler yet to be fitted so this will help with cooling also.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

mattysupra said:


> how come engines are advised to take it steady for 1000 miles to run in? i remember every car my dad purchased back in the 80 / 90's had to be run in for 1000 miles.


Its not the 80s/90s anymore :thumbsup:



mattysupra said:


> The new GTR i think has around 1000 mile run in also?


Possibly just so you'll take it easy untill its closer to being outside the warranty period? 



mattysupra said:


> My engine builder wanted me to do 1000 miles run in?


You'd have to ask him what his theory was behind that, I'm sure he'd have his reasons and be able to tell you.

Nothing to do with who might have done your engine......If the tune isn't bang on your "run in" might actually be your "run out" and guys could find by the time they've done 1000 miles and gone back to be "final tuned" (wtf is that all about?) its too late, the damage (or lack of a good bed in) has been done. 



mattysupra said:


> So it amazes me that RIPS (and others) take under 1 minute to run a engine in?


Its not under a minute, I just make sure I'm giving the motor load within a minute or so, for the FED motor we've just done I was into top gear giving gentle load within 20 seconds.

RIPS FED alive again......... - YouTube



mattysupra said:


> Is it because your not running in for road use?


Same goes for a road motor.



mattysupra said:


> is it the way the rings are gapped maybe? for instance i would presume the rings are gapped for drag/nos use rather than a street/drag gap?


Ring gaps are tighter for a street engine but IMO you still have to get some load behind then a.s.a.p.



mattysupra said:


> Working it out, if the FED does 100 passes then its around the same mileage as street car doing 4 miles around about? obviously with a lot more stress.


The first motor in the FED was the one from the 240z, it did alot of road miles and a huge amount of dragstrip work over 4 seasons, even when your running 7s you'd easy have the motor running for a total of 3-4 minutes per run and 100s of runs from an engine with oil changes only is very do-able. 



mattysupra said:


> also looking at Robby's pistons he does look like he has very good ring seal?


Build it right, run em in hard and with the right tune, simple.



mattysupra said:


> Interested in Robby's views on the run in process and if he was to gap rings for road use i.e the BORG would you only do a light run in still Robby?


Same as above, its started on the dyno and given load a.s.a.p, the entire run in and tuning process is spread out over the course of a day and uses about 40 liters of fuel and 1 or 2 oil and filter changes, it gets full power/rpm runs towards the end of the day and after that it gets the final type of oil we want to use and its ready to race or deliver to the customer etc with no "take it easy" needed, in fact I warn against taking it too easy. 

The new FED engine is ready to go after burning just 7 liters of fuel, there's no breathing, no fumes/smoke and it WILL make the power.


Rob.


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## Speeddm (Jun 10, 2007)

? Darn tablet double post.


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## Speeddm (Jun 10, 2007)

All my engines have been broken i using one simple rule. Break it in or break it!


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

RIPS FED bedding in motor session 3 - YouTube


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## black bnr32 (Jan 20, 2011)

I worked at a GM engine plant in 2006 and watched all the corvette ls2(iirc) motors get run in for a total of 30 seconds(iirc), then shipped off for marriage with the chassis.


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## Jakobsen (Dec 19, 2007)

Very good work on the engine over Xmas, good to see it running again best of luck in the drags


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## ryan_010 (Jul 3, 2005)

Rob are you back on the fully built head again or from memory you replaced your good head with a stockish one?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

ryan_010 said:


> Rob are you back on the fully built head again or from memory you replaced your good head with a stockish one?


We are on the same replacement head which was originally a very mild combo, we have the same cams as we've used all the way through with the 240z and this car but with new valve springs and the porting is now similar to the first good head.


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

On the way up from Welly now, will see ya tomorrow... fingers crossed weather plays nice


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Good luck tomorrow Robbie


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

All loaded up and on our way, weather looks OK for this morning, chances of showers this afternoon, lets hope they stay away.


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

well done turning around the re-build over Xmas, and good luck, hope the missus has forgiven you for scotchbriting pistons while eating turkey!.


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## Taven888 (Mar 30, 2011)

Sorry if allready stated but wat pistons are they mate?


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

CP.


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## Taven888 (Mar 30, 2011)

arggh i see, they look same as the cosworths an wossners, mind you suppose all makes of pistons look same ish lol.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

good luck with the racing :thumbsup:


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Weather started looking average so I took off, but car was going strong when I left and I believe Rob set a new class record.... so congrats! 

I am still away from home but cobbled together a little bit of stuff with my phone to give something to look at, so sorry poor quality but beyer than nothing I figure. I am sure Rob will have more later 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Ys3o084AU&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Nice work! Go the tractor/forklift/taxi engine!


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

A look out the back with a super slow 1.3 60ft (5000rpm and 10psi boost off the line, 25psi peek) and a 7.6 @ 177mph which is under the CC/D National Record:
RIPS FED runs under CC/D National record - YouTube


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

sure looks quick looking out the back. 


:thumbsup:



How often do you have to replace the para-shoot ? Does it wear out fast dragging on the ground?


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## ryan_010 (Jul 3, 2005)

Looking good rob have you noticed any improvement with the Gtx wheeled 45?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

mattysupra said:


> How often do you have to replace the para-shoot ? Does it wear out fast dragging on the ground?


They last about 2 years, I keep my speed at about 20mph to keep it inflated right till the last minute then stop quick so it just falls to the ground.
The pilot chutes wear out alot quicker because they are dragging the whole time, they last 1 season usually.
I usually run 2 chutes and altinate between one and the other during the day to keep the wear an tear even.




ryan_010 said:


> Looking good rob have you noticed any improvement with the Gtx wheeled 45?


Yes AITs have dropped a good amount based on our initial data comparisons :thumbsup:


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## deep_space (Jan 27, 2010)

bloody love it rob, well done


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## drewzer (Jun 22, 2009)

top job mate, well earned after all the graft over festive period!!!


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

great turn around rob, good luck with it, impeccable as always!


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

Wow I hadn't been on here in a while, glad to see everything worked out well. I do recall infomotive commented on YB about filling an rb30 but I thought you were building a new motor. For the rb I'm building we decided not to use the side mounts due to that every picture I could find to show my builder had the crack in the middle cylinders which led them to conclude the same as you the mounts are torquing the block to much so we made a front plate and the adapter plate to the turbo 400 will both be attached to the chassis in place of traditional mounts.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

For this quick turn around I didn't have time to look at making a front motor plate, also we considered the fact we'd been running this way trouble free for over 2 years putting alot more power into it that we had been recently.

I'm pretty confident most of the problem arose from the lose rear motor plate bolts and the cracked left front engine mount, neither of which we knew about.

Post some pix of your front plate though, I'd be interested to see it, did you keep you block water cooled? ie. did you lose the water pump off the front of the block and use that area for the mounting plate?


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> For this quick turn around I didn't have time to look at making a front motor plate, also we considered the fact we'd been running this way trouble free for over 2 years putting alot more power into it that we had been recently.
> 
> I'm pretty confident most of the problem arose from the lose rear motor plate bolts and the cracked left front engine mount, neither of which we knew about.
> 
> Post some pix of your front plate though, I'd be interested to see it, did you keep you block water cooled? ie. did you lose the water pump off the front of the block and use that area for the mounting plate?


Oh I don't doubt you'll be problem free since you'll be more vigilant and it's clearly worked for so long for you. In my case since the class I'm running mandates that my turbo be covered by the hood and since I've gone dry sump I dropped the engine abit and did away with the stock Xmember. We needed to make new mounts anyways so figured we go with the motor plate and kill two birds at once. 

Yes I used the area where the water pump is to attach the plate, since I already had ditched the mechanical pump in favor of an electric one I simply milled out the shape of the pump so water could flow through the plate and inside of the standard water pump(which had it gear cut off) and used longer bolts to reattach it. I'm on my phone now but I'll post pics up tonight. It should do the job and actually added a small bit of volume for coolant.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Sounds good.

I presume you went with a plate no more than 6mm (1/4in) thick or your cam belt would rub on the water pump housing.

With a RB30/26 its not so easy to do it that way as the cam belt tensioner has less than 6mm clearance, another reason I didn't worry about it at the moment.

Rob


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> I presume you went with a plate no more than 6mm (1/4in) thick or your cam belt would rub on the water pump housing.
> 
> ...


Iirc it was 1/4" thick although I wasn't aware it was because of that clearance issue but I suppose they had that in mind. I also plan on mounting the dry sump pump off the plate. Would you be able to cut off some of the water pump housing from where it meets the block to make up the clearance?


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

Here's a few pictures:














































Not to sexy but it should get the job done and it will give me a good location to hang my dry sump pump off of.


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## GTR H (Jan 6, 2012)

Rob is the rb30 block stronger than the rb26 or just the same?
Also man i hope you hit the 6's do you know how much bragging rights that gives to the rb boys!!! 

Good luck !!


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

I am pretty sure there will be 6s from RBs run in the next few months


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

GTR H said:


> Rob is the rb30 block stronger than the rb26 or just the same?!


In theory the RB26 is stronger due to the extra ribbing on the block


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

Sub Boy said:


> In theory the RB26 is stronger due to the extra ribbing on the block


I suppose the reason you see more cracked 26's is the awd? Or sheer volume?


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## daryl the pony (Feb 7, 2012)

well Done on the new Pb and world record!!!

Did you end up finding a reason on why the block split???

Did you full grout fill your block or sleeve it?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Cheers, here's the run:
RIPS FED WORLD RB RECORD 7.14 180.94MPH Drag Combat 2012 - YouTube

As above, we're sure the block split due to lose motor plate bolts and a broken left hand engine mount, that along with the savage bumps at the Taupo track caused it for sure. 

Replacement block is stock, no sleeves but we put a little filler in it, there's still water going through it and the cooling system works just like normal, temps are the same etc.

Rob


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## daryl the pony (Feb 7, 2012)

wow that`s a great effort as there has been alot of talk of blocks cracking due to power levels 

Keep up the good work and bring on the 6 second zone!


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