# Eat my dust Skylines



## spanner (Mar 3, 2005)

I have been considering trading in my RS Cosworth for a Skyline until last night. I need a fast car that handles (like my cosworth) and had been convinced by a mate (drives a R33 GTST something?) that Skylines were the bulls tool.

To cut a long story short, I lined up against another Skyline with a mean looking ned (grinning like demented drug addict) driving outside Dundee. Ready steady whoooosh.....he tailed me for about 6 miles and almost lost control on at least 6 occasions. I was simply cruising and kept slowing up to let him catch up, then just touch the pedal and watched him blow black smoke. So I let him pass me (he gestured and scowled), and then I simply blew him away.

I am still keen on a Skyline as I like the retro-ford escort look and to be fair, my mate took me for a blast in his and although I didn't much care for the interior, the engine sounded quite nice (he did have a crap speakers and I could hardly hear Abba Gold - his choice not mine).

I am not sure about the fuel consumption either, is there a diesel option?

If I don't go for a Skyline, what else shold I be looking at?
My mate (Skyline fanatic!) says that a Scooby is probably a better all round car, but he likes being a bit different (he is a bit weird).

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Best regards

Spanner


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

You drive an RS and you're worried about there being a diesel skyline??  

LOL mate you've lit a touchpaper here...I'm sure a modded GTR would be to your liking but yes they cost money to run and are about 15-20mpg, so if you ain't got the cash for fuel you can't afford it!

T


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## Abaddon (Jan 6, 2005)

So I assume your Rs Cosworth is modfied? I doubt very much that a standard Cossie would beat a Skyline - unless you were racing against a rb20det? Whats your mod list?

Skylines are far better cars, better looking that an RS Cossie IMHO - RS Cossies are quick, but let's face it, have nothing on a Skyline! :smokin:


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## spanner (Mar 3, 2005)

*Money is no object....*

Money isn't the issue, it's the whole package.
Why bother with a car the looks dated and doesn't perform as well as enthusiastic owners try and convince themselves that it does?

I asked about diesel option because there are some shit-hot motors out there with top diesel engines (my old mans merc is awsome!)

Is there a specific model that has decent interior, and handles better than a Nova?


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## spanner (Mar 3, 2005)

*Better looking....mmmmmmmm*

Give me a brake, the Skyline might be some kind of weird cult car but it is not exactly a good looker?????

And what's with all the mod bollocks, can't Nissan just build a decent car??


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Tick tock....


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Look if you're just here to stir us up go away it's boring.

We're here because yes we do like Skylines, if you don't go away...
T


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

this is going to get interesting!!!!

..............................................


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
An Internet troll is either a person who sends messages on the Internet hoping to entice other users in to angry or fruitless responses, or a message sent by such a person. The term derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" and ultimately from trolling for fish; it first appeared on Usenet. The term is frequently abused to slander opponents in heated debates and is frequently misapplied to those who are ignorant of etiquette.
:smokin:


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## nigel f (Sep 11, 2002)

At the end of the day you can make any thing handle, look at the Racing American cars, they are based on road cars which couldnt make it round a bend, let alone a race track.

Both the Skyline and The Cozzy are Road cars with peformance, not race cars.

Dont forget that you may well be quite handy at driving, but I would say that if you where in Shumacca's (spelling ?) F1 Ferari, all the rubbish F1 Drivers would beat you no probs.

It may not be the car that is rubbish, possibley the driver.

Every one likes there own car, thats why you have a Cozzy and we have skylines, 
if you go to the Audi forum you will find that the RS6 is worlds best and fasstest car.
Likewise with Bentley GT's.

Why dont you either look at the Raceing results from 89 onwards.
I have some DVD's with Cozzys beeing beaten by R32 GTRs.
(I bet you have DVD's with Cozzys winning)
Or go and Test drive one for your self.

Evos are good.

Nigel


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## spanner (Mar 3, 2005)

*Not very helpful*

Look guys, I am genuinely looking for some helpful advice on Skylines.

I am just not convinced that they are the mutts nuts?


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

if you are genuine then its not a good idea to come on here and start a thread how you did!


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

im sure if you look on this forum there are many owners who have gone from a Cossy to a skyline because they are better and have more potential!

But if you dont like the look why bother in the first place!


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## skymania (May 28, 2004)

Peter said:


> Tick tock....


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## Abaddon (Jan 6, 2005)

My Boss in work has the same attitude as this guy - fantastic bloke but doesn't seem to know a huge amount about cars.....he is also convinced my R33 looks like an escort!  

Skylines are gorgeous cars, the lines on them are amazing, the engines are fantastic and they handle brilliantly.

I would suggest selling your Ford and getting a Skyline - they are superior cars in everyway!


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## silverzilla (Aug 12, 2004)

scooby? er u sure?


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

Just realised, I've not had the pleasure this week.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

just buy this months EVO in which the Escort cosworth is put against the Skyline

lets just say the Cossie review isn't favourable.

also, not all Skylines are 4wd, 280+bhp monsters.

are you sure your friend has a GTR?


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Spanner by name,

Spanner by nature.

   

About as "genuine" as a Barrats mock tudor mansion !!!!

pmsl


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

Abaddon said:


> So I assume your Rs Cosworth is modfied? I doubt very much that a standard Cossie would beat a Skyline - unless you were racing against a rb20det? Whats your mod list?
> 
> Skylines are far better cars, better looking that an RS Cossie IMHO - RS Cossies are quick, but let's face it, have nothing on a Skyline! :smokin:


PMSL!  

The only thing good about the sierra is the Conworth developed pinto engine. As for the chassis its nothing special. But before steven N  gets a hump and tires to blast me, I did own a 3 door sierra and was good for its day and age...


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

snapper, or spanner what ever your called...

which car kicked the sierras butt all over the race circuits during the GP A days? i think it was a "crappy skyline as you put it" 

sierras were destroyed in japan, and in australasian touring car championships...


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

well ive had two cosworths mate and id go for the gtr anyday.

The cossy is good for what it is but the GTR skyline is in a different league mate imo

But were all different so go for what u like best.


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## empi (Jun 23, 2004)

spanner said:


> To cut a long story short,
> Any advice would be gratefully received.
> 
> Best regards
> ...


1. Skylines do not look like Retro Ford Escorts
2. Your Pals GTST is no doubt a nice car, but it's not a GTR
3. Go and play with a GTR on a track - then compare
4. When you see the difference - go buy one


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## sbkrider (Feb 28, 2004)

You say the skyline looks dated, yet you drive around in a Ford Sierra......  I have never owned a Cosworth, or a Skyline, but i do love the Skylines. It's nothing to do with the mythical greatness that surrounds them, i just like them. If you like them, get one, if you don't, look elsewhere.


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## spanner (Mar 3, 2005)

*Get a life boys.....*



remember, information is not knowledge,
knowledge is not wisdom
wisdom is not truth
truth is not beauty
beauty is not love
love is not music
music is the best

-- frank zappa


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

someone delete this **** for fu.cks sake

dunno why we even bother sometimes


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

FZ also opined that stupidity was the most plentiful element in the universe as it seemed to be more plentiful than hydrogen. You seem to confirm this theory.


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## skymania (May 28, 2004)

spanner said:


> remember, information is not knowledge,
> knowledge is not wisdom
> wisdom is not truth
> truth is not beauty
> ...


LOL! 

I guarantee you have just spent the last hour searching the tinterweb for that pic, and you're telling us to get a life!!??

Seriously 'mate' if you have no real interest in Skylines, other then dissing them then I think you should p1ss off, or, if you would rather you could stay here being a twat and get banned! Choice is yours...


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

totb1
totb2
totb3

a skyline has won every year at TOTB. Why dont you bring your cossie to TOTB4?


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Let him be !!

He can be a constant source of amusement, like a pet, only dumber !!!

He can be a friend to SteveN to reminisce about the good ole days when fords seemed fast and mullets were the don !!

hehehe

J.


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## Bajie (Dec 13, 2001)

You know, I mistakenly drank some Evian water, still not sparkling, and it was actually quite nice. I wasn't stuck in a desert for a week and just got back to civilisation thirsty but the drink was satisfying and really did hit the spot.
Have any of you guys ever moved from your usual post training tipple and been mildly impressed with the imposter?


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## empi (Jun 23, 2004)

Jesus Bajie, i'll take a big bin linner of what ever it is your on!


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

Bajie said:


> mildly impressed with the imposter?


I'm mildly impressed with the imposter, and just right now contemplating banning both him, and his alter ego.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Abaddon said:


> I would suggest selling your Ford and getting a Skyline - they are superior cars in everyway!


A GTR is superior in every way, no doubt.

A GTST? Ahem, no. Apart from bigger capacity its a pretty equal playing field. And proven performance wise Cossies win hands down.


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## Abaddon (Jan 6, 2005)

I disgaree about Cossie winning on performance - a standard GTST will beat a standard Cossie.

And to be perfectly honest I'd still have my R33 GTST over an R32 GTR, hate the styling on R32's......R33/R34 GTR is another matter entirely.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Standard figures for a RWD cossie is 6 to 60 and 150mph.

Are standard GTST figures faster than that are they?

And how many std GTSTs or Cossies are there? Very few. I was talking modified performance.

Whats R32s gotta do with anything


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

Abaddon said:


> And to be perfectly honest I'd still have my R33 GTST over an R32 GTR, hate the styling on R32's


You must be insane.

Phil


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Well I owned A Cossie rwd Saphire which was over 300bhp ,I loved it but over a ton it starts to feel very light on the steering ,the Skyline feels a better safer more solid car by a long way .Anyway this guy is just a wind up ,Spanner = Spanner in the works I think


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## spanner (Mar 3, 2005)

*Live long and prosper.....*



Mullets will always be cool, and cars are killing the planet.

The thought manifests as the word;
The word manifests as the deed;
The deed develops into habit;
And habit hardens into character;
So watch the thought and its ways with care,
And let it spring from love
Born out of concern for all beings....
As the shadow follows the body,
As we think, so we become.


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## Abaddon (Jan 6, 2005)

Philip said:


> You must be insane.
> 
> Phil


Not at all, I'd prefer an R34 Nismo to a Ferrari Enzo...it's all down to preference.

And I referred to the R32 because it's the only GTR I don't like (because of the styling)


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## r33gtsman (Jun 29, 2001)

I have always had respect for the Cossies and still do even now.

My next door neighbour whom is Cossie mad and who has recently made the move and bought a R33 GTSt was telling me the other week how much he loves his R33 over any of the Cossies he has ever had. When I asked him how does his standard 33 compare to the Cossies he used to have (which were by no means standard !) his own words were 'The Skyline (his own GTSt) would leave the Cossie behind easily' 

Cossies and Skylines (GT-R's and GTSt's) are both bloody awesome and very fast cars, I am just happy to own the one that is recognised worldwide and in my own personal view is by far the better car.


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

Abaddon said:


> Not at all, I'd prefer an R34 Nismo to a Ferrari Enzo...it's all down to preference.
> 
> And I referred to the R32 because it's the only GTR I don't like (because of the styling)


how can you prefer a GTS over and GTR? dont you know the R32 is the GTR in its pure form? the GODZILLA!!!


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

IMO should lock/remove this, as the Geezer who posted it is obv on a windup, and the posts in reply are generally ill-informed blinkered stuff nearly as bad as the thread starters posts.


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## Bajie (Dec 13, 2001)

spanner said:


> "It is like a finger, pointing toward the moon. Do not conc...."
> 
> "Oi, Bruce!!! Put that finger back. I was almost there !!??!!"
> 
> "Yes, Dear ..."


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

Its more fun, i can vouch for that!!!


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## Abaddon (Jan 6, 2005)

Yunis A said:


> how can you prefer a GTS over and GTR? dont you know the R32 is the GTR in its pure form? the GODZILLA!!!


I prefer the STYLING of the R33 over the R32 - that's all. I know the RB26DETT is a much much better engine and I also know they handle loads better too. It all just comes down to the styling between the two for me.


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## spanner (Mar 3, 2005)

*We are the hero of our own story.*

Some say the glass is half empty, some say the glass is half full, I say, are you going to drink that?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

spanner said:


> Some say the glass is half empty, some say the glass is half full, I say, are you going to drink that?



this guys argument is overwhelming.

i might just have to sell up at this rate


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Can't believe he's still here...


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## Kirky R33 (Mar 20, 2004)

My mate has got a Saph coz, which in my eyes is the GTST of the ford world.
(you can see a pic of ower cars on skylineowners forum gallery)

We are both running stage one mods, and i have 8bhp over him (tested the same day same dynopak)

But yet my car puts the power down allot better than his and mine is far more responsive, smooth and a better drive

He also thinks that my car has the edge over his and hes a big ford nut


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## Robbie 733 (Feb 25, 2005)

I've got a Sierra Cosworth 4x4 which from its rally background is perfect for snow & ice
covered roads, and an R34 which drives like its on rails in the wet or dry. Different stokes for different folks ?

Plus if I prang it, Ford parts are a lot cheaper to replace .......


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## Kirky R33 (Mar 20, 2004)

spot on, there is no compairing cars as different people have different views on what makes a great car.

Plus as there is almost no such thing as a std skyline or cossie anymore you cant say this is better than that, as iam sure if my mate got a new suspension setup (as iam running full tein hr flex), and increased his boost his car would probably have the edge over mine


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## Nismoalex (Sep 24, 2003)

Wheres Cem when you need him ? ...... Someone who isnt scared to press buttons LOL


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

This spanner bloke is just on a wind up!!

I was/am a Ford lover, they were awsome cars in there day, and if we are honest you should all agrree! But GTR/GTS skylines are far better then the fords! There is no argument!

Now GTR vr's GTS-T this has always been a argument between the 2 owners! The GTR as a standard car is better!! simple no argument, it costs more for a start FFS! 
As already said it's down to the individuels choice on what they get, some get GTS because they carn't afford a GTR (which are cheap now) some get GTS because they are RWD, there are loads of differant reasons why people get differant cars! But it's hard to find a standard Skyline, and there are GTS's out there that will kick a pretty tuned GTR's ****! 

So lets respect each others choices and come together in Skyline love and be united!!

And ban the spanner dumb **** !!

Rant over ----- did it make sense?


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## Abaddon (Jan 6, 2005)

GEORGE GTS said:


> This spanner bloke is just on a wind up!!
> 
> I was/am a Ford lover, they were awsome cars in there day, and if we are honest you should all agrree! But GTR/GTS skylines are far better then the fords! There is no argument!
> 
> ...


Spot on dude.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Whats the current fastest proven performance times for GTSTs then in the UK?


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## smileyculture (Oct 25, 2003)

I can see the members of the 'other' forum donning their pointy hats and cloaks and getting ready for a flogging!haha

jason



SteveN said:


> Whats the current fastest proven performance times for GTSTs then in the UK?


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## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Hey guys,

This has made it over to the SOC. We are all having a good giggle !

I reckon this chap is 17, just past his test, been allowed to drive his dads merc for the first time, and his mate has an rb25de that he has told all his mates is a turbo coz he won it at a max flower venue !

Moff


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

As the SOC is reading it too, im sure theyd know...

Whats fastest proven (i mean proven with real timing gear, not one of them in car things you can buy  ) 0-60, 0-100, 1/4mile, Top Speed, whatever, for a GTST in the UK?


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## JamieMS (Feb 14, 2005)

I owned a 4x4 Cosworth till recent and am still part of the RSOC but you can in no way compare Cosworth's to a GTR Skyline..  

I have a number of home made vids of our 3 Saph Cossies and Neilo's R33 GTR, it kills the fords in every way be it interior trim to power!  

Cossie can be judged against Scooby's and Evo's end of.

But as usaul there is always an execption to the rule..

Reyland's Escort Cosworth..RIP


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## GeorgeBush (Feb 27, 2004)

Just go away.

Read the post entitled n00bs and idiots.

I've read to the bottom of the first page of the thread and quickly tired of it, so I apologise if this rant comes after the deserved ban.


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

SteveN, Y do seem very interested in what the fastest time of a GTS, is it something I said?

I don't think it's the fastest but it's proven......

Nathan Scaddon R33 GTS 11.57 @ 118 MPH


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Cause im interesteed. Just everyone thinks GTSTs are better than RWD Cossies, so i was wondering on any proven times to compare.

I know in Japan there some mega ones, and they have got half a litre, 2cyls, and 8 valves, advantage, but its still nice to compare UK ones to UK Cossies...


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

ahh right, how do they compare then. Do you know Niel from Carwise in York? he has a high power cossie, a bloody nice one aswell!!


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

You looking for GTST times in UK only SteveN, because there are a few Aussie GTS's that have run faster 1/4's than our fastest GTR's. And no not dragsters, road based cars, or at least as road based as the fast GTR's (i.e. not).

There aren't many fast GTS's in the UK because they aren't considered worthy of the Skyline badge according to many, so the pool of half serious GTS tuners is extremely small in the UK. 

So comparing fast GTS's with fast Cossies proves absolutely nothing. So your point is what exactly?


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## JamieMS (Feb 14, 2005)

I thought we were comparing the GTR against Cosworth?

GTS is a different matter!!


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

My GTR33 ate a cossie outside Aldershot last year.
Stage one mods,but enough to leave the cossie for dead in 3rd gear!!!!


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

Ask me this question in a couple of months (maybe less) and ill tell you!!!

With the work i have planned for my car (short term anyway, a RB25 can only hold on for so long) i should have some impressive times if i get the power down.

On a DVD i borrowed off Steve, there is a R32 GTST that runs a 10.6qtr, not sure what engine it has, probably an Rb30 or similar.


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

He is compareing a cossie RWD to a skyline RWD. They are both RWD.

And to say they arn't worthy of wearing a skyline badge is your choice of words is it not? which I think is a bit of a stupid choice of words!! 

As I said in my pervious post why carn't GTR & GTS owners appreciate each others cars without this 'ohh it only a GTS' therefor it's not worthy!

Ohh And I do have a GTR & a GTS so I am able to comment!


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## JamieMS (Feb 14, 2005)

GEORGE GTS said:


> As I said in my pervious post why carn't GTR & GTS owners appreciate each others cars without this 'ohh it only a GTS' therefor it's not worthy!


Never gonna happen!  
Just as the Cossie boys look down on the RS Turbos and the RS Turbos look down on the XR's. Each car group has a pecking order. With all the relevent tuners fighting themselves to sell us shit to raise our profile within that group, and making shead loads out of it at the same time.  

Doesn't matter what you have someone will always have something better and just have to let you know about it!  
What else would we bitch about all day!!


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Luffy- You seen the Red RWD 4door yet? Runs a 9 if i remember right and is running a stroked RB20!


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

I love em all.......


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## Alex j B (Apr 24, 2004)

JamieMS said:


> Never gonna happen!
> Just as the Cossie boys look down on the RS Turbos and the RS Turbos look down on the XR's. Each car group has a pecking order. With all the relevent tuners fighting themselves to sell us shit to raise our profile within that group, and making shead loads out of it at the same time.
> 
> Doesn't matter what you have someone will always have something better and just have to let you know about it!
> What else would we bitch about all day!!


I can appreciate GTST's and GTT's and I drive a GTR, why can't more people. My dad has an R33 GTST, my sister has an R32 GTST and a mate has an R34 GTT. I only chose the GTR as I actually like the look of the R32 and could afford a GTR!

Also, when theres GTST's like Luffys about, it isn't 'only a GTS'.

Alex B


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## DEAN (Jul 7, 2004)

I have owned several cossy's in my day, give respect where it is due, skyline GTR's are way ahead of there time talking about the 32GTR tunning capacity that cosworth could not match, So the DATSUN'S get a thums up from me, anyway going back to the first page thread about you slaying a skyline, I drive a 33GTR and have yet to come across a cossy that could keep up with me of the lights or track, no doubt they where a nice fast tuneable car before the datsun's arrived and it was time for change!!!!!!!!!. No doubt


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

SteveN said:


> Luffy- You seen the Red RWD 4door yet? Runs a 9 if i remember right and is running a stroked RB20!



Not yet mate only watched a bit of one of them last nite hopefully watch some more later!


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

In the wise words of the Mods - "YAWN"


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

SteveN said:


> As the SOC is reading it too, im sure theyd know...
> 
> Whats fastest proven (i mean proven with real timing gear, not one of them in car things you can buy  ) 0-60, 0-100, 1/4mile, Top Speed, whatever, for a GTST in the UK?


fluffy's awesome R32 GTST?? what is it 550bhp? that must be amongt the fastest surely?


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## bushy (Jan 30, 2005)

JamieMS said:


> I thought we were comparing the GTR against Cosworth?
> 
> GTS is a different matter!!


I agree J, I've had both RWD and 4x4 Rs Cosworth, and i wouldn't ever consider buying another one, In my opinion they are just an unreliable waste of time and money, just dead money.

If i'm honest i think i'd even prefer a GTS skyline to another cossie.

You can't even compare a GTR skyline to a cossie, and as for scooby's well i rate them even less. if i had to have another turbo'd 4 door mini cab, then the only choice would have to be an evo.


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

SteveN said:


> Whats fastest proven (i mean proven with real timing gear, not one of them in car things you can buy  ) 0-60, 0-100, 1/4mile, Top Speed, whatever, for a GTST in the UK?


I recall of Marc (Crail Loser) running a 12 sec pass with a terminal of 124mph.

SteveN, Stop stirring the shit, you know the children don't like it. :smokin: 

Luffy, You have nothing to prove, as do any of the other big power GTS's that exist around these parts.  

Abaddon, You have a lot to answer for !


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

i dont want to prove anything Jason! But me being me i always want to take things further and thats what i hopefully will do in the near future! New turbo being ordered soon along with a few more goodies, then the question "what bhp can a std RB25 handle?" will be answered 

I think Nathan is the only one who has been able to get the power down over here but it has been proven in other parts that you can get a GTST into the 10's even the 9's its just waiting for somebody todo it over here  !!

Hit the button Jason you know you want to !


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

The Cossie in standard form was not with out faults and to the people that have owned them I'm sure they will agree that the turbo used to smoke and wear out (mine was ok) and the brakes while good for stopping were **** poor in standard form for lasting very many miles ,after market discs were needed as they used to suffer alot from steering wheel wobble (common Ford problem) .I got a second hand bonnet for mine of a 4x4 as the Sapphire rear wheel drive Cossie never had a vented bonnet ,dont know why as as it used to get hot as hell under there .Rear tyres never lasted that long either ,still a belting car though and I'm pleased I have owned one


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Yunis A said:


> fluffy's awesome R32 GTST?? what is it 550bhp? that must be amongt the fastest surely?


Fluffy, pmsl. Well it sounds close.

Can we start calling you Pen1s A now?  

Luffys is 490bhp, its very fast, but there is faster in the UK, but soon i think wel try n find out what a std RB25 can take  

In modded form there no reason it cant do 700+, even with std crank IMO.

Main thing with GTST or any other RWD car is getting the power down, once you got that (ive seen pics of R33 GTSTs with 275/40/17 BFG drags on, so i think thatd help, tyres is the biggest single thing) you well away.

Ones in the 10s and 9s are pretty common elsewhere in the world.

Powers nothing without the grip to use it.


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

Yunis A said:


> fluffy's awesome R32 GTST?? what is it 550bhp? that must be amongt the fastest surely?



what do you mean FLUFFY, ill give you blo*dy fluffy!!!

its 500bhp at themo mate and soon (hopefully) to be a lot more!


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

like SteveN said i will soon have the answer to the all important what power can a RB25 take, when i take the attitude fcuk it lets stick a whopping great turbo on it some 740cc in jectors and some cams and have some fun!!!

most the R32's on the vid i watched had flared (not GTR style) arches and som whopping great tyres on there!!!

Nathans was the fastest but he sold it and the bloke just took the engine out, not sure what he did with it, JasonO's will be fast, Crail Loser's was fast and looked good at the same time, but one thing we forgeting, mines a 32 so a lot lighter which should help!!


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

Go for it Luffy, many consider 500 at the hubs on a rear wheel drive is insane, and you after having that, want more  

Why is it that ex GTR owners seem to have massive grins on thier faces when they go to a GTS????

Maybe an overweight, clutch pack 4WD with peg leg front diff and crappy viscous rear is not all it's cracked up to be  or do they just dull the driving senses with high tech traction devices?


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Reason i went from high power/weight rato RWD to a 4WD is traction, or sick of the lack of it, i want to be moving forward at incredible speeds, and big power and RWD rarely does that in road going spec unfotunatley. 

Even the best RWD supercars have great difficulty with 400bhp/ton, and id want that or more.


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

In an ideal world, we would have a light weight, permanent 4WD car with good balance to stop understeer. However in the real world sticking 200Kg's+ worth of 4WD equipment that totally screws the balance of a car, doesn't make sense. A heavy car is prone to wheelspin more than a light car, thus self defeating to a degree. And the extra front end weight and diff loading in throttle off conditions gives the car understeer, thus slower cornering speeds, thus more wheelspin coming out of the corner. Never going to work.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Seems to work well enough, otherwise RWD versions would always be faster.

Unless the RWD has adequate traction (ie a track car on slicks) it loses out to the lesser car with better traction, and on the road, like mentioned, almost impossible once you at about 400bhp/ton unless you got 4wd.

From a rolling start, 1st gear spin is fine, can live with 2nd gear but thats still hinders performance, but when its 3rd or more it begns to take the **** performance wise.


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

Thats funny, a Radical has around 400Bhp per tonne, and I don't see any GTR's or any other 4WD's duffing those very often. Must have slicks on em???? I agree totally on the light weight extreme, but does prove a point.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Indeed that is totally on the weight extreme so a bizzzare point to make. Like you said, weight has a huge effect, as does the power needed to make the heavier car fast. 

Your average GTST is never gonna get under 1200kg in roadgoing form, a SR2 Clubsport weighs 450kg!
To get the GTST to the same power to weight ratio even if you stripped the hell out of it would need about twice the power of the Radical, and thats exactly where your traction problems come from, a GTST with 400bhp/ton is gonna have at least 500bhp, and that causes big traction issues on road tyres with RWD even in the dry, no matter what.

Nissan built the R32GTR originally for Homologation reasons, to Kick Ass in GrpA as the R31s, even with about 200bhp less power, wernt that competitive as they just couldnt put the power down.
And thats running 10-11 inch wide slicks, never mind ROAD tyres (im sure you know road tyres and race tyres are totally worlds apart with regart to grip).

From a standing start with the right tyres you can get a RWD to hook up and launch incredibly well, like said, many GTSTs in the 9s around the world, but its a different story driving on the road, esp from rolling starts and powering out of corners.

With about 400bhp/ton i think you could get one grip fairly well (ie ok grip from 2nd onwards as long as its dry) but i wanted more, and it rains to much in this country, so got rid of the RWD and went 4WD.

(Please dont take this as GTST bashing like EVERYONE always do  as its not even in the slightest, they can be awesome cars, Luffys car is one of my fave Skylines ever infact)


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

so we should be seeing some fast GTST's then?

shame they dont have flared arches as the GTR's, they look a bit on the skinny side....


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

Yunis A said:


> shame they dont have flared arches as the GTR's, they look a bit on the skinny side....


Does my bum look big in this ? 

ROFL @ The Fashion victims :smokin:


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## Demon Dave (Sep 15, 2002)

Yunis A said:


> shame they dont have flared arches as the GTR's, they look a bit on the skinny side....





JasonO said:


> Does my bum look big in this ?
> 
> ROFL @ The Fashion victims :smokin:


Looks are entirely subjective... Me personally, I think the non-GTR varients look just as good as the GTR's. However the GTR's wider arches, for me at least, aren't so much of a cosmetic bonus as they are at allowing for wider wheels and tyres...


And, at the end of the day, if the way a skyline looked wasn't important, then there wouldn't be such a huge market for aftermarket body parts and kits....


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

That's what I was trying to say Dave


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2005)

Everytime I see your avatar Dave, I think it looks like Damon Hill after he had been out on the p|ss with Aleister Crowley 
Am I the only one who sees this?

And bollcocks to staying on topic


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

i agree we should appreciate all skylines!

back to the battle, ford v nissan! well thats a no contest, as mentioned in thie thread the sierra is just a simple 80s family hatch with a cosworth YB engine, the suspension, the brakes is just so out dated! no doubt it was a king during its day, but its not even on par with a 200sx! let alone GTST, and forget the GTR, it will kill it each and every time! I had some good battles with a few 300 bhp 4x4 sapphires in my calibra turbo! evenly matched, but these are just simple cars!


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## Booty-licious (Nov 8, 2001)

senna said:


> Everytime I see your avatar Dave, I think it looks like Damon Hill after he had been out on the p|ss with Aleister Crowley
> Am I the only one who sees this?


I see it too...hehehe!!


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

SteveN said:


> Indeed that is totally on the weight extreme so a bizzzare point to make. Like you said, weight has a huge effect, as does the power needed to make the heavier car fast.
> 
> Your average GTST is never gonna get under 1200kg in roadgoing form, a SR2 Clubsport weighs 450kg!
> To get the GTST to the same power to weight ratio even if you stripped the hell out of it would need about twice the power of the Radical, and thats exactly where your traction problems come from, a GTST with 400bhp/ton is gonna have at least 500bhp, and that causes big traction issues on road tyres with RWD even in the dry, no matter what.
> ...


Point taken regarding high hp and RWD traction. Think the important thing is to build the engine and drivetrain to reduce wheelspin causing situations. i.e. heavy flywheels and big midrange torque peaks, and wide ratio boxes that light the wheels up on gearchange. Other things need looking at too, like chassis set up and most importantly the diff. Good job I have sourced a special Zexel race equipment diff for mine then  If you can spin the wheels under pure accelearation at speed above 60mph, then you have got serious chassis set up/ tyre grip problems.
SteveN is your RWD experience on Cossies, as they have notoriously poor rear suspension design, that squats under acceleration and gives horrible camber on the rear in the process. I think even a Supra puts its power down better than a RWD Cossie. GTS rear multi link set up is not bad to start, but can be well sorted. Longer wheelbase also helps


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## Luffy (Jul 12, 2004)

Mines got a Top Secret LSD, not sure how good it is, havent heard much about them but with there experience and history i can only assume it is pretty good!

Im concentrating on getting the engine sorted and as much power as poss then sort out the traction setup, ive already got an OS giken triple and uprated box (not sure which one yet) so ive got a great basis to work from.

Once i got the power (which hopefully will be a lot) ill wory bout the traction later!


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## NoNothin (Aug 6, 2003)

Yunis A said:


> i agree we should appreciate all skylines!
> 
> back to the battle, ford v nissan! well thats a no contest, as mentioned in thie thread the sierra is just a simple 80s family hatch with a cosworth YB engine, the suspension, the brakes is just so out dated! no doubt it was a king during its day, but its not even on par with a 200sx! let alone GTST, and forget the GTR, it will kill it each and every time! I had some good battles with a few 300 bhp 4x4 sapphires in my calibra turbo! evenly matched, but these are just simple cars!


That sort of comment just makes you look silly. Do you not realise that the skyline is just a 'simple' family car in Japan? The GTR is just a 'simple' family car with an RB engine and a few other bits on it. I really don't see where this superiority complex comes from  (and you are not alone, many other skyline owners have it) as your car is not a purpose built sports or super car in the same way as an F430 for example, it is simply a souped up family car.

Don't bother reminding me of the cars' racing pedigree as I'm well aware of it, but it does nothing to disguise the cars origins.

SteveN,

Its torque that causes wheelspin problems (at the risk of sounding like a pedant), but I know what you mean. I find 4wd cars less involving to drive, however, and miss 2wd cars in a funny kind of a way.


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

NoNothin said:


> The GTR is just a 'simple' family car with an RB engine and a few other bits on it. I really don't see where this superiority complex comes from  (and you are not alone, many other skyline owners have it) as your car is not a purpose built sports or super car in the same way as an F430 for example, it is simply a souped up family car


To say an R32/33/34 GT-R is a family car with a few bits and pieces added on is selling it very short in my opinion.

Philip


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## JamieMS (Feb 14, 2005)

bushy said:


> If i'm honest i think i'd even prefer a GTS skyline to another cossie.


  Easy Dave lets not get carried away!!


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

way i see it, you can see any GTR and know it's shit hot.

but a GTST has the potential to be a bit of a sleeper with silly horse power.

i'd never take one for granted.

esspecially the one grey one i keep seeing in my town.

mook


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## Abaddon (Jan 6, 2005)

JasonO said:


> Abaddon, You have a lot to answer for !


Errr, no. Actually I don't. How you can reasonably expect me to hold responsibility over anothers comments is beyond my understanding. I can apologise for them, but I can't be held responsible for them.


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

This thread is a bit mental !!! It started off with a nutcase and it's just got weird!!


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

SteveN said:


> A GTR is superior in every way, no doubt.
> 
> A GTST? Ahem, no. Apart from bigger capacity its a pretty equal playing field. And proven performance wise Cossies win hands down.


Not many cossies that could touch my `33GTST


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## JamieMS (Feb 14, 2005)

Trev said:


> Not many cossies that could touch my `33GTST


Coz most Cossies are stage-1 taxi's!!


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

JamieMS said:


> Coz most Cossies are stage-1 taxi's!!


Not quite I dont think ,Cosies have been around abit now and the good clean ones I know about have been tinkerd with over the years and modded from owner to owner .These cars are well able to humiliate alot of Skylines ,pick up some of the Ford mags and see whats about


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

am i not right in saying Ron at RK tuning started in cossies and "upgraded" to Skylines?

along with a number of other famous tuners?


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## Kez (Sep 14, 2004)

my mates got a 500bhp cossie and its bloody rapid, but he has spent 3 times the amount that i did to get my gts-t to 500bhp, plus skylines are far cooler!!


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

When I was at Santa Pod a group from a Cosworth owners club arranged for me to race their fastest car. This being a tuners car that had no expense spared modifications. I promptly despatched said car in my next race to conclude what was a enjoyable days racing.  Which leads me to the question in hand! Get a Skyline


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

Mookistar said:


> am i not right in saying Ron at RK tuning started in cossies and "upgraded" to Skylines?
> 
> along with a number of other famous tuners?



yup! he had the webber carb shop in highgate and that turned to Rk's i think


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## neilo (Nov 17, 2004)

*behave your self*

I used to own a stage one 4x4 cossie, for it's day you could achieve good performance but i always thought at speed it handled like a soggy mess and the styling was well dated. I think there's no comparison,the skyline's a million miles ahead of the cossie and as far as whats the quickest, if you chuck enough money at any car, it will be fast. 

Neil


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

Mookistar said:


> am i not right in saying Ron at RK tuning started in cossies and "upgraded" to Skylines?
> 
> along with a number of other famous tuners?


ron still has piccys of cossys up in his place..but then he saw the light


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

LOL.
And lets all take a break now................


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

here here Treg!!! 

So then has anyone got any snow left at there house ????


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2005)

Have any other readers got interesting avatars that look like ex F1 Racing Drivers?
Perhaps Johnny Herbert with a carrot up his nose or Ricardo Patrese wearing a rubber chicken as a hat.


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## Revsport (Oct 6, 2004)

lol at this post.

Its hard to compare A GTS-T to a Escort Cos as they are verry different. 

The real chalenge is GTR vs Escort Cosworth


You see this quite alot at crail and to be honest there is not realy anything in it. Cossies tend to have alot more torque whan tuned than a skyline gtr. Useualy the Cossie rips off to 60mph then the skyline takes it at the top. 


This is just in my experience at crail and I dont know what was under the bonetts. 

How many of you guys have raced cosworths


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

No snow left for me!It had all vanished by 11am.
I had abit of a scare yesterday tho, on a patch of ice!(I use the sky daily!)


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## Kez (Sep 14, 2004)

no snow here full stop, had none all winter!!!


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## skymania (May 28, 2004)

Loads of snow still left here...


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## roguejackal (Jul 10, 2004)

phew ,,, that took a while at least we are on the stereo typical british subject of the weather now and not some thing daft like cossis better than Skylines. lol


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## djdna2000 (Nov 14, 2003)

Mookistar said:


> am i not right in saying Ron at RK tuning started in cossies and "upgraded" to Skylines?
> 
> along with a number of other famous tuners?


He probably realised the ludicrous amount of money he could make in Skyline tuning!


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## RB211 (Feb 5, 2005)

How many record's round the ring does the cozzie hold ?
How many wrc rounds did it win?
How many records does the GT-R hold
How many times has it won Le Mans(it's class)
Who cried and got the skyline banned in Oz - the ford boys.
Is there a cozzie on any GT games?
How can a Ifor Williams cattle trailer rear suspension compare to Nissan's multi link S-HICAS?
How can McPherson Struts compare to the Skyline's front set-up.
Do RB engines blow more head gaskets than Basil Fawly?
Can you you sit in any Ford comfortable at 150?
Ford = Found On Rubbish Dump.
Nissan=Nice, Irresistable,Sleek,Sexy And Naughty.


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

RB211 said:


> Ford = Found On Rubbish Dump.
> Nissan=Nice, Irresistable,Sleek,Sexy And Naughty.


   

Oi. I have a mundeo and a GTR


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## RB211 (Feb 5, 2005)

*I shall say zis once and vonce only*

errr I have a mundano & a GTS25t. But the mundano is a bit like a fat woman, the ride's comfy - but you wouldn't want your mate's to see you !!


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

spot on


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## charlieskywizmwarr (May 24, 2002)

Back to the more important business of me flogging my number plate then!!

The link to buy my most cherished plate.

http://my.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...entPage=MyeBaySelling&ssPageName=STRK:ME:LNLK

Advertising or hijacking in the next life ??


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## Demon Dave (Sep 15, 2002)

RB211 said:


> How many record's round the ring does the cozzie hold ?
> How many wrc rounds did it win?
> How many records does the GT-R hold
> How many times has it won Le Mans(it's class)
> ...


LOL   

Nicely put!


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

Dont know if its been said yet, cant be bothered to read all the pages, the ford sierra was designed in about 1980 or thereabouts, a fast'ish engine in an antique, so forget them, the escort model that became the Cos. was widely acknowledged as the worst Escort of all, so forget them.

So whats the issue?

Eat my dust ***hole.


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## xaero1 (Feb 9, 2004)

I know an amatuer racing driver who owns a small tuning shop. He's got a GTS-t tuned to just under 400bhp.

Over the years (He's early 40s) he's owned cossies and allsorts - included one of the country's first turbo kitted 205 GTIs. 

He tells me the Skyline is the best all round car he has EVER owned. Hands down.


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## dangerous dave (Dec 16, 2003)

God we really know how to get wound up on this site when someone comes on a and starts to say "whats the fuss all about with skylines then ?" Simple, each to there own I say.


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

RB211 said:


> How many record's round the ring does the cozzie hold ?
> How many wrc rounds did it win?
> How many records does the GT-R hold
> How many times has it won Le Mans(it's class)
> ...


Now thats well put..lol


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## xsvoid (Sep 15, 2002)

*spot on dave !!!*



dangerous dave said:


> God we really know how to get wound up on this site when someone comes on a and starts to say "whats the fuss all about with skylines then ?" Simple, each to there own I say.


Who gives a flying fcuk, this geezer is trying to have a pop.. and its a shame people are biting. In my opinion the liner is one of the best sports cars on earth, even though the dagenham dustbin has an unusal appeal 

U.


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## djdna2000 (Nov 14, 2003)

RB211 said:


> How many record's round the ring does the cozzie hold ?
> How many wrc rounds did it win?



You can say what you like about the ford cosworths, but you simply can't deny their racing pedigree and achievemments. The escort cosworth won 10 Group A and WRC rounds btw, the sierra 2.


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## Angry (Nov 3, 2004)

RB211 said:


> Is there a cozzie on any GT games?


Yes, the Escort Cosworth WRC in both GT2 and GT3, probably in GT4 too.


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

I did some 0 to 60 sprints at Donny South my best 3.7 the best 2.9 by Sierra Cosworth life in the old Girls yet I think


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

djdna2000 said:


> He probably realised the ludicrous amount of money he could make in Skyline tuning!


He prolly realised they were better engineered cars for the basis of getting more power and enjoyment out of them than a tired and out dated cossie.

actually Rons prices and labour charge is very reasonable! :smokin:


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## Yunis A (Jul 25, 2004)

djdna2000 said:


> You can say what you like about the ford cosworths, but you simply can't deny their racing pedigree and achievemments. The escort cosworth won 10 Group A and WRC rounds btw, the sierra 2.


the R32 skyine totally destroyed the sierras across japan and australasia in the process wining close to 30 Group A races in the space of a few years! 

rival team owners were so scared of the R32's they called it the Godzilla! :smokin:


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

Yunis A said:


> rival team owners were so scared of the R32's they called it the Godzilla! :smokin:


Oh, please..... You'll find some geeky journalist named it Godzilla. Racing teams don't sit quaking in a corner when a competitive team brings out a faster car. 

Just because a particular car wins a road car based series, doesn't mean it's the best of the best forever. It usually means it pushed the boundaries of the series rules and gained an advantage, therefore won races. It depends a lot on the original road cars factory specifications. Skylines happened to be 2.6 l Turbo charged engines, racing against 2litre Cossies. I would call that unfair.

Same with Audi in the mid eighties, when their Grp B rally Quattro was banned, they fitted the engine into an Audi 500 Quattro bodyshell, and went racing in the US. It wasn't long before it was banned, as it absolutely trounced the opposition. 
It would have been interesting to see that Audi race against a Skyline. As much as I love Skylines, I'd bet on the Audi, as I saw them race in South Africa for a number of years. 800-900bhp from a 2.1 litre 5 cylinder engine. 1100bhp in qualifying form  No competition, even tho they had very limited tyre widths, minimum weights, etc.


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## boab (Aug 23, 2003)

spanner...

out of curiousity (just seen this thread!)

which GTS-T were you racing against?
and which GTS-t does your mate own?

only asking as i'm up here in sunny dundee, and know of a couple of GTS-T's up this way... but of the ones i know, they only have very light mods!

reading your first post, it sounds very familiar to me... only in reverse!

i had my GTS-T for around 6 months, went up to edzill for the 1/4 mile, had a bit of "playtime" with a sapphire cossie, i was sat on his bumper up to around 145mph, then he just couldn't get any further, when he finally decided to pull into the "ford" lane, i simply cruised past.... 

it was all in good spirits though, and we had a decent chat when we got to edzill.
then my turbo blew up on the way home!!!!!!!!!!!

so as said, just curious to know that there may be more skylines up this neck of the woods!!


p.s.
if you really think your cossie is a skyline eater, i suggest you give "gordon A" a PM.... 


cheers
boab


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## JamieMS (Feb 14, 2005)

stealth said:


> Not quite I dont think ,Cosies have been around abit now and the good clean ones I know about have been tinkerd with over the years and modded from owner to owner .These cars are well able to humiliate alot of Skylines ,pick up some of the Ford mags and see whats about


Read my previous post before quoting me  and you will be able to tell i had a very clean 4x4 Cosworth till recent and have been part of the RS culture for a long time i know how many stage 1 taxi's are out there and the number of owners most cossie have had (about 20 each!!  ). 

My point once again!! Is that a Escort/Seirra Cosworth will not come close to a *GTR* Skyline. 
Just look at past TOTB events is you need clarification!


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## djdna2000 (Nov 14, 2003)

Yunis A said:


> the R32 skyine totally destroyed the sierras across japan and australasia in the process wining close to 30 Group A races in the space of a few years!
> 
> rival team owners were so scared of the R32's they called it the Godzilla! :smokin:


Please get some perspective. Winning a series in Australia does not make the skyline the greatest racing car ever built. It wasn't banned for being too good, they just changed the rules like they are apt to do every few years. How many world class events did it even run in, let alone win? That doesn't detract from the fact that as a road car it is excellent, but it's no Integrale/Quattro/Escort/Impreza/(or dare I say it my own GT-Four  ) when it comes to world motorsport heritage.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

God I know how good GTR's are ffs ,I was just saying Cossies are not that bad really and not exactly slow ,If we want to do the pecking order thing there are plenty of cars around that will wipe out a Skyline too


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

So the the 911 turbo,what a crap car!!
LOL


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Nice usual thread of people on both sides talking shat as neither seem to know anything about the car they trying to slag


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Think its time to finish this one now


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## bushy (Jan 30, 2005)

JamieMS said:


> Read my previous post before quoting me  and you will be able to tell i had a very clean 4x4 Cosworth till recent and have been part of the RS culture for a long time i know how many stage 1 taxi's are out there and the number of owners most cossie have had (about 20 each!!  ).
> 
> My point once again!! Is that a Escort/Seirra Cosworth will not come close to a *GTR* Skyline.
> Just look at past TOTB events is you need clarification!


Well said J, i'll vouch for ya on that :smokin:


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## bushy (Jan 30, 2005)

stealth said:


> God I know how good GTR's are ffs ,I was just saying Cossies are not that bad really and not exactly slow ,If we want to do the pecking order thing there are plenty of cars around that will wipe out a Skyline too



Stealth how many cossie's have you owned  

i've had RWD and 4x4 cossie's, and they are BAD cars! they spend more time in the garage than on the road,My Rwd cossie had 4 engine's and they are just the ones i know about, god knows how many more it had before i owned it, i got rid of mine as they were nothing but grief, i put loads of money into both my cars and never took the cheap options, and still they let me down time and time again.  

They are just a poor mans evo in my book, and i'd never recommend anyone to buy one.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

BUSHY said:


> My Rwd cossie had 4 engine's and they are just the ones i know about


**** me, I bet that was quick. How was it set up. One engine for each corner of the car 

If you want to double check for any others you havent found, I would guess likely places to look would be in the boot, under the bonnet and perhaps under the rear seats.


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

djdna2000 said:


> Please get some perspective. Winning a series in Australia does not make the skyline the greatest racing car ever built. .


Ahem three series in OZ & Quite a number more in Japan!



djdna2000 said:


> It wasn't banned for being too good, they just changed the rules like they are apt to do every few years. How many world class events did it even run in, let alone win?.


The Group A car specification was changed significantly to out law a number of feature of the R32 GTR, effectively denying the car from ever running again.



djdna2000 said:


> That doesn't detract from the fact that as a road car it is excellent, but it's no Integrale/Quattro/Escort/Impreza/(or dare I say it my own GT-Four  ) when it comes to world motorsport heritage.


You've quote 5 very good rally cars as your example of Motorsport history! We are not talking about rally cars here. 

We are talking about race cars, about a car that is purpose built from factory as a road going race car. That in its day reshaped and redefined what a race car can & should be.

Along its three years reign at the top of Group A, making cars like the Ford Cosworth, Holden Comodore, Ford Fairmount (to name a few) look less competitive than previous. It inspired radical thought - But it's superiority in Group A spelt it's demise and the car was out lawed. But it legacy & legend lives on. 

It does have a place in Motorsport History -Anyone else who thinks overwise needs to do some reading!


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

gtr mart said:


> **** me, I bet that was quick. How was it set up. One engine for each corner of the car
> 
> If you want to double check for any others you havent found, I would guess likely places to look would be in the boot, under the bonnet and perhaps under the rear seats.




whahahahahahahahahahahahaha          

PMSL thats funny gtr mart :smokin:


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

GavGTR said:


> Ahem three series in OZ & Quite a number more in Japan!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jeez, Gav, you really believe a GTR is a factory purpose built race car  
Out of R32 GTR's I can't be arsed to look up the numbers but I know something like 45,000 were made. An extremely small percentage of those went racing. Maybe 40,000 was the homologated number required for Grp A racing     Proving the GTR was primarily a road based car, with a number of key items that needed to be in place for homologation reasons, like the big IC. Some might call this tactic unfair. Certainly the BTCC drivers were in an uproar when the Alfa 155 fitted some racing(ish) splitter to thier road cars and quickly added them to thier BTCC cars making them unbeatable. Doesn't mean to say those Alfas inspired 'radical thought' as you put it. Like taking your big brother to a nusery school fight, obviously he's going to kick some a$$. 

As I said before, 2.6l 6cylinder Turbo cars against 4 cylinder 2 litres and 5litre NA four door family cars. If I ran a racing team I know which one I would have. It is almost impossible to regulate TC vs NA by cc's or restrictors, as F1 found out in the 80's, and rules were always changing. Yes GTR's no longer fitted into the Ozzie rules, but they wanted Ozzie cars in thier series not some non official imports to come over and trounce the local cars. How fair is that? Perfectly reasonable to me. And not the anti GTR rule change that you make out, normal field levelling changes.

GTR's are fantastic cars alright, but not some world dominating super car like many suggest. jeez, sounds like that cult bike of the 80's the RD500. Everyone believed it to be something it's not, including the banned 'cause it was too fast lable.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

bushy said:


> Stealth how many cossie's have you owned
> 
> i've had RWD and 4x4 cossie's, and they are BAD cars! they spend more time in the garage than on the road,My Rwd cossie had 4 engine's and they are just the ones i know about, god knows how many more it had before i owned it, i got rid of mine as they were nothing but grief, i put loads of money into both my cars and never took the cheap options, and still they let me down time and time again.
> 
> They are just a poor mans evo in my book, and i'd never recommend anyone to buy one.


Only the one ,it was an 89 Saphire ,bought it in 95 ,it was Fords demo car for a bit so all mods done by them then it had a Lady owner for a couple of years after ,then I bought it with about 35000 on the clock, so going back 10 years
most are sheds now I know .Had to sell as I coulde'nt afford the insurance second year as only in my 20's then .Funny thing was sold it to a bloke on crutches and 2 broken legs he had just stacked his white one ,I learnt 3 weeks later he had written off my one as well ,ploughed her into a tree that aparantly jumped out in front of him what a [email protected] mate of mine had a grey one and had loads of trouble with it ,usuall smoking exhaust and fecked engine problems .I keep seeing Escort Cossies in the trader and the prices are a joke IMO .Skyline is so much better but the cossie was good in it's day


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

NISFAN said:


> Jeez, Gav, you really believe a GTR is a factory purpose built race car


I believe this is how Nissan touted the GTR in there marketing! If you don't believe the makers - who do you believe??



NISFAN said:


> Out of R32 GTR's I can't be arsed to look up the numbers but I know something like 45,000 were made. An extremely small percentage of those went racing. Maybe 40,000 was the homologated number required for Grp A racing


I believe you may be spot on with that statement




NISFAN said:


> Proving the GTR was primarily a road based car, with a number of key items that needed to be in place for homologation reasons, like the big IC. Some might call this tactic unfair.


I would call that tactical thinking, Whether its fair or not



NISFAN said:


> Certainly the BTCC drivers were in an uproar when the Alfa 155 fitted some racing(ish) splitter to thier road cars and quickly added them to thier BTCC cars making them unbeatable. Doesn't mean to say those Alfas inspired 'radical thought' as you put it. Like taking your big brother to a nusery school fight, obviously he's going to kick some a$$.


I'm not privey to any of the details on the above, but from what your saying It very much sounds like Alpha were trying to play with in the rules laid down by the BTCC by putting the spoiler on there production road cars - thinking outside the square isn't radical thought?? 

Colourful Big Brother metaphore tho!



NISFAN said:


> As I said before, 2.6l 6cylinder Turbo cars against 4 cylinder 2 litres and 5litre NA four door family cars. If I ran a racing team I know which one I would have. It is almost impossible to regulate TC vs NA by cc's or restrictors, as F1 found out in the 80's, and rules were always changing. Yes GTR's no longer fitted into the Ozzie rules, but they wanted Ozzie cars in thier series not some non official imports to come over and trounce the local cars. How fair is that? Perfectly reasonable to me. And not the anti GTR rule change that you make out, normal field levelling changes.


I Totally agree with you on the difficulties of trying to govern TC & NA cars running in the same class, as history has shown us this is not possible.

Now, I never said the rule was anti GTR , I believe I said the specification was changed so that certain features that the GTR had were now out lawed. Do not misconstrue what I'm saying!



NISFAN said:


> GTR's are fantastic cars alright, but not some world dominating super car like many suggest. jeez, sounds like that cult bike of the 80's the RD500. Everyone believed it to be something it's not, including the banned 'cause it was too fast lable.


Well Nisfan, from what I've seen on it's racing history - It is certainly one of the better ones! - But then again - I am very biased!


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2005)

Come to this call of duty server with the name of Ford in your name, then we can all bust caps in your asses 

84.244.130.132:28960


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

senna said:


> Come to this call of duty server with the name of Ford in your name, then we can all bust caps in your asses
> 
> 84.244.130.132:28960


XR8 4ever!


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

GavGTR said:


> I believe this is how Nissan touted the GTR in there marketing! If you don't believe the makers - who do you believe??


Mate, you never believe the makers. The're the last people to get an opinion of thier own products from. Next time you pass any new car showroom, pop in and read their glossy brochure on the lowest possible model car they have. You still get crap like "......a powerful 1.0 litre engine to that perfectly matches the sporty chassis......." and "......positive steering feedback through the electrically assisted power steering...." 
FFS, have you ever driven a car with electic power steering? There is no way the steering wheel is even remotely connected to the front wheels, never mind feedback.  

Seriously, the GTR is a good car, and did whoop some ass in Grp A, but it is no demon race car. Only young children and insurance companies believe that


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

GavGTR said:


> XR8 4ever!


Did you get XR8's in NZ? V8 302 Windsor powered Sierra's?


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

NISFAN said:


> Did you get XR8's in NZ? V8 302 Windsor powered Sierra's?



Sure do, shed loads of Fords & Holdens - They are are the biggest selling four door cars in NZ.

Lots of XR6 & XR8s - shed loads of SS's, HSV Club sports and Senators.

As for the Sierra with the Windsor V8 - not to many of those, Although there are shed loads of V8s around in Commodores and Falcons sporting the 351's, 308.


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

hmmm, I grew up in SA. Ford SA launched an 'XR8' which was a Sierra with a windsor 302 engine in it, rear wheel drive. Also made a Capri V8 back in the 80's called it the 'Perana' again with the 5litre engine. Both sounded awesome, but didn't quite go as well as they sounded. 0-62mph in 7.1 for the XR8.

Is the HSV the car with the RB30 engine in some models?


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

NISFAN said:


> hmmm, I grew up in SA. Ford SA launched an 'XR8' which was a Sierra with a windsor 302 engine in it, rear wheel drive. Also made a Capri V8 back in the 80's called it the 'Perana' again with the 5litre engine. Both sounded awesome, but didn't quite go as well as they sounded. 0-62mph in 7.1 for the XR8.
> 
> Is the HSV the car with the RB30 engine in some models?


The XR8 in NZ is exactly the same as the Australian version as far as I know, XR8 is based on the Ford Falcon.

THe RB30 Engine however was put into the Holden Commodore VL - THis model was Manufactured from (I think) 1987 through to about the 1989 when the when the VN commodore can onto the market. Lots of people now lift the RB30s from the VL commodore to repower the RB25 & RB26.


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## bushy (Jan 30, 2005)

gtr mart said:


> **** me, I bet that was quick. How was it set up. One engine for each corner of the car
> 
> If you want to double check for any others you havent found, I would guess likely places to look would be in the boot, under the bonnet and perhaps under the rear seats.


My cossie could of had 1000 engine's in it mate, the thing would still be as unreliable as ever, lets face it they are just a load of crap


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## djdna2000 (Nov 14, 2003)

GavGTR said:


> Ahem three series in OZ & Quite a number more in Japan!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It does indeed have a place, but how many world championships of anything at all has it won? How many races at all on a level playing field (i.e. all same engine capacity, same forced induction etc)? What I am saying is that there are very few cars that we as Joe public can drive that are even loosely based on their sporting counterparts - doesn't matter if it's track or rally (what is the difference between tarmac rally and track anyway if it comes to that?). These cars will never exist again becuase of rule changes which means you can go racing with a gutted and rebuilt shopping trolley that bears no resemblance to the road version (e.g. Peugeot 206).

Of those few cars (e.g. the ones I mentioned plus the RB26 GTRs cars and a few others), some made an impact on the world stage, some didn't. Now the skyline didn't, which of course doesn't detract from the things which make it a fantastic road car.

In fact those things prevented it from being a good racing car i.e. it's too big and heavy - same reason that people use smaller models in most forms of touring cars and rallying nowadays - if everyone has the same restricted max power, why not use a smaller car to save weight if the regs allow?


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

bushy said:


> My cossie could of had 1000 engine's in it mate, the thing would still be as unreliable as ever, lets face it they are just a load of crap


Ever thought you was driving a badly set up crock of shite?

Bearing in mind my old one, and many more, run 400+bhp engines (and you talking std crank n rods and 30psi boost) and manage big miles and tons of abuse with total reliability...

Theres 600+bhp ones with well over 20k miles on their engines, that bad for 300bhp per litre? lol...


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## JamieMS (Feb 14, 2005)

SteveN said:


> Ever thought you was driving a badly set up crock of shite?
> 
> Bearing in mind my old one, and many more, run 400+bhp engines (and you talking std crank n rods and 30psi boost) and manage big miles and tons of abuse with total reliability...
> 
> Theres 600+bhp ones with well over 20k miles on their engines, that bad for 300bhp per litre? lol...


Yes, Bushy's 2wd Cosworth was set up properly 450bhp at one point. That was a nice car (for an 89-F), till it meet with some traffic lights  RWD and diesel on the road don't mix!!  
How often do the 600bhp Cosworths get used? National Day and a couple of track events? Its hard enough to get them to sign up for TOTB4 after a years notice? Neilo's 650-700bhp GTR is used almost every weekend!!

Until Ford updates it's top performance range (Focus Cosworth) they will be unable to compete with the likes of RX7, Porkers and Skyline GTR's.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

When is that Focus Cossie coming out ? it will be dated before its here .I heard it was supposed to be Jan 05 ,typical Ford


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Theres never been a date for the Focus Cossie.
Theres never even been any pics of confirmation that its even being designed.

New Focus ST thats out soon is 2.5 5cyl 20V Turbo tho. FWD, but still...


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## bushy (Jan 30, 2005)

SteveN said:


> Ever thought you was driving a badly set up crock of shite?
> 
> Bearing in mind my old one, and many more, run 400+bhp engines (and you talking std crank n rods and 30psi boost) and manage big miles and tons of abuse with total reliability...
> 
> Theres 600+bhp ones with well over 20k miles on their engines, that bad for 300bhp per litre? lol...



Steve,

my cossie was nowhere near a crock of shite mate, as anyone i know will tell you, at it's peak it was running 450bhp, don't judge my car by the standard of yours mate.


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## bushy (Jan 30, 2005)

spanner said:


> I have been considering trading in my RS Cosworth for a Skyline until last night. I need a fast car that handles (like my cosworth)



Didn't think the words HANDLES and RS COSWORTH go together in the same sentence


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

SteveN said:


> Theres never been a date for the Focus Cossie.
> Theres never even been any pics of confirmation that its even being designed.
> 
> New Focus ST thats out soon is 2.5 5cyl 20V Turbo tho. FWD, but still...


So all the stuff that was on the Ford sites abit ago was crap .I thought ford would have done well with a Focus Cossie


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

bushy said:


> Didn't think the words HANDLES and RS COSWORTH go together in the same sentence


So it wasnt a Cossie that won the handling course at TOTB1 then?


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

Not a standard one!!  

I do like Fords, carn't belive this thread is still going   

I carn't get my head around how much the Escorts are making tho  

All cars can be made to handle well or gofaster, so it's hard to compare cossie/skyline

Then they are 2 differant cars, cossies want compareing to Impreza's and Evo's (and we know which is the best there don't we!!)

so we are comparing totally differant cars here!!!! I like both I have and always will have a soft spot for cossies (and I neever did get round to owning one  ) BUT i drive a Skyline!!


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Escorts are VERY overpriced for what you get, decent ones commonly go for 10-14k and thats for a car about 12years old!
Its cause they "modern classics" or whateve you wanna call em.

For pure performance id never get one, but i dont like EscCossies anyhow.
The cossie engine is proven capable of 800+bhp (various rallycross cars) and 600+ on pump fueled road cars, and 10sec 1/4s and 200mph is nothing new, but the rear suspension setup isnt ideal, they dont handle badly, but its not a perfect base.

If i had the spare cash id happily spend 15k on a mint RS500 tho, and thats a 18year old car! 

It is very silly comparing a GTR to a Cossie really, but people always will!


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Another point too the New'est Cossies are not far off the age of the oldest Skylines


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

didnt skylines come out in the 70's ?


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Noit was the 50's I think But I was refering to the GTR 32 1989 and onwards


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## JamieMS (Feb 14, 2005)

Skyines back in the 50's??

Saw a good N-reg Escort Cossie today, 64k small turbo model.

I can't believe the still sell for 15.5K    Esp as the 4x4 Escort standard was a dog


> Didn't think the words HANDLES and RS COSWORTH go together in the same sentence


 spot on Bushy!


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## bushy (Jan 30, 2005)

JamieMS said:


> Skyines back in the 50's??
> 
> Saw a good N-reg Escort Cossie today, 64k small turbo model.
> 
> I can't believe the still sell for 15.5K    Esp as the 4x4 Escort standard was a dog spot on Bushy!


Tell me about it jamie, look what happened to my 2wd cossie, they just don't handle when your rousing em!!!



jamiems said:


> Yes, Bushy's 2wd Cosworth was set up properly 450bhp at one point. That was a nice car (for an 89-F), till it meet with some traffic lights RWD and diesel on the road don't mix!!


And as for the 4x4 cossie's, christ i wouldn't wish em on anyone  



steven said:


> The cossie engine is proven capable of 800+bhp (various rallycross cars) and 600+ on pump fueled road cars


it's all very well building a cossie engine with this much power, but it ain't gonna last 5 mins!! and how many cossie's with that much power actually exsist


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Plenty here. Tons more in scandinavia. Its as strong and capable as any other 2litre 16V.

And i quote Julian Godfrey (ie one of the best race engine builders in the UK, not crappy roadcar tuners like we all use) talking about his RallyCross engines running approx 850bhp--


> Around six years ago we started putting Nikasil liners in the engines, and since weve had them last four to five years


Nobodys saying they the best things ever, but seems this threads mainly full of old/blinkered/incorrect info.


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## ADUS (Mar 10, 2004)

cozzys are excellent cars for what they are...cheap to mod ..tuneable and quick on the road..

In my experience the only down side was that bits fell off now and again but for a ten year plus old 2 litre car its hardly surprising..

I wanted to save a few quid so i bought a skyline..lol


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## bushy (Jan 30, 2005)

SteveN said:


> Plenty here. Tons more in scandinavia. Its as strong and capable as any other 2litre 16V.
> 
> And i quote Julian Godfrey (ie one of the best race engine builders in the UK, not crappy roadcar tuners like we all use) talking about his RallyCross engines running approx 850bhp--
> 
> ...


Well my first cossie engine blew (the 450bhp one) it had a full long studded 200 motorsport block, low comp pistons, steel rods and crank, it was built and setup by the so called best in the business, the bottom end cost over 8k alone, thats without the price of the completely reworked head, it lasted approx 4 months........as i said in my previous post's if you run to much power in a cossie they last five minutes.

it seems once you go past the stage 3 green injector 320bhp mark, thats when the problems start.

All these so called 800bhp cossie's running around must be having engine rebuilds every 100 miles!!!

I was in the cossie game for years and the biggest bhp cossie i ever heard about was 700bhp, and the owner had lost count the amount of times he'd rebuilt the engine.

Maybe you've got better insider info than the lot of us ex cossie owners SteveN, cause certainly none of the ex cossie owners i know seem to agree with you're cossie/reliability arguement mate


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

I put about 20k miles on a 400bhp spec engine running 30psi boost, caned the absolute tits off it, never missed a beat, when car was sold on the head was removed and was engine was still spot on, and has carried on use.
Ive known more powerful engines than that to last longer than that too, even 500bhp spec ones running the crappy 205 block...

What exactly failed on your engine? 
And who is this best in the biz and how did he set it up?

Been a lot of progression in the last 4-5years, and people automaticly assume just cause their engines were crap, thats just the way it is.


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## JamieMS (Feb 14, 2005)

Steve, i remember your Black 3-Door anti lag etc etc.

Looked a nice car.


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