# link g4 remappable?



## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

im about to get an apexi fc for my r32 but need to have aftermarket afm as well, so i thought of getting a remappable ecu and go for MAFless instead. i heard the Link g4 ecu is very good but cannot be remapped after the first mapping. is this true? and which is the better option between apexi fc with aftermarket AFM or Link G4 and go MAFless?  cost wise will be the same right?

thanks


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

best chat with Ron at RK tuning


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

thanks matty. will try to ring him tom for more info


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

nightcrawler said:


> i heard the Link g4 ecu is very good but cannot be remapped after the first mapping. is this true?


This canot be true, and it sounds funny and if its true i will just open the window and throw mine out.where did you hear this?



nightcrawler said:


> ]
> and which is the better option between apexi fc with aftermarket AFM or Link G4 and go MAFless?  cost wise will be the same right?
> 
> thanks


G4 is much better in my opinion but all depends from the person who will map it. cost wise g4 should be much more i think.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Best Option = Link

You can remap it as many times as you like, You can even download the software on the Link Website to do it yourself.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

A PFC is 90's technology .....Its almost a waste of money now ...

Cant G4's store multiple maps ?


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

nightcrawler said:


> im about to get an apexi fc for my r32 but need to have aftermarket afm as well, so i thought of getting a remappable ecu and go for MAFless instead. i heard the Link g4 ecu is very good but cannot be remapped after the first mapping. is this true?


What a load of tripe, G4 Link is very powerful - can be remapped on the fly and you can have various maps stored in it, and swapped between using various conditions as needed. Makes the PFC look like a primative tool.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

PFC's ARE very old technology ....
They were "the" plug and play GTR ecu for a long time, then the year 2000 arrived ...
Oh that was 11 years ago ....
They shouldnt even be on a list of ecu's to consider now.


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

DrGtr said:


> This canot be true, and it sounds funny and if its true i will just open the window and throw mine out.where did you hear this?
> 
> 
> 
> G4 is much better in my opinion but all depends from the person who will map it. cost wise g4 should be much more i think.


sorry but i cannot broadcast it on air dude.

i heard many good feedbacks on G4. but i was surprised when i heard it is not remappable (or i just misheard :runaway. so i wont be needing to replace my MAF with this?

thanks for the replies


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

You get rid of the MAF altogether and use a MAP sensor, if you use a plug-in G4 Link I am pretty sure it comes with its own.


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## greyBnr32 (Aug 29, 2006)

It is remapable and up to you on what you use, it has an internal map sensor good to 1.5bar but if you want to run more than that you need an external map (i got a 7 bar map sensor) no issues. Some say that is easier to map with MAF but it is not impossible with MAP, just takes a little more effort, a lot depends on the mappers skills.


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## mwebster (Aug 18, 2005)

I run a G4 with multimap to use my gas in TA, good ECU for the money, not as good as the likes of the syvecs s8 or the some motec units but then again it doesnt carry the price tag either!


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## P3RV3RT (Aug 2, 2005)

Best place to get a Link G4 then guys? And how easy is the software for mapping to use?


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

P3RV3RT said:


> Best place to get a Link G4 then guys? And how easy is the software for mapping to use?


the Link website dude. MGT racing and Rising Sun Performance offers them with fitting and remapping as well. they are very good mappers :thumbsup:


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

didnt you call Ron?


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

UK dealers

Link ECU | Engine Management Systems


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

matty32 said:


> didnt you call Ron?


wasnt able to today buddy...was so busy all day. will def ring him tom and ask for advice, not to mention all the inputs here in the forum. all are very helpul.

thanks matty


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

give him a bell, say i sent you, his a good guy, will help you out


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

the plugin Link G4's for GTR's are sequential ignition yeah?


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

r34skyline said:


> the plugin Link G4's for GTR's are sequential ignition yeah?


The G4 extreme is. Not the storm


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

this is where i get confused, as far as i know there is...

G4 Xtreme
G4 Storm
G4 Plugin - 

i was under the impression, for R34 GTR's, you either have the Xtreme or the Plugin - BUT the plugin is NOT the Storm, it's something different altogether...

??


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

r34skyline said:


> this is where i get confused, as far as i know there is...
> 
> G4 Xtreme
> G4 Storm
> ...


Don't take this as gospel, But from my understanding, the plug in is a hybrid of the two, It has the seq inj, without a lot of the aux features.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

Link Engine Management Systems — Link Engine Management Systems - plug-in & wire-in aftermarket ECU's

you can order it directly from link and you can pay some extra and order it with the plug in 7bar map sensor, thats what i did anyway, it works out cheaper but we dont have any major dealer in Cyprus maybe we do now but when i bought it last year i was the first , in the Uk the dealers have almost all the parts on stock so maybe is better to get it from a dealer there, but link directly have a skype account and can assist anytime.


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

plugin is wasted spark, no knock control, xtreme is sequential, with internal knock control no point in the storm as i think its only for 4 cylinder applications


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

Knock with ***8220;windowing***8221; via additional G4 KnockBlock


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

that's it, that's why the storm isn't for GTR's

ahh... knock control... rather useful. It will be running E85 but all the same, still want it. 

DrGTR do you mind if i ask what you paid for your plugin G4? i got a price from Rob for the xtreme, so i'll have something to compare

oh, and the knockblock as well if you bought that


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

i bought my bits of kit from rob Xtreme 7 bar map sensor etc, etc and very happy with the service, note though if you buy the adapter loom then it needs a few wires swopping etc for it to work properly but its still alot easier than wire in (although i havnt got a clue where to put the box and wire!!) i have it all written down plus some good settings for idle etc if you need them, going to do the map tomorrow but im happy so far alot better than the power fc but a bit different to map using map sensors to afms


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

forgot to add i weighed up buying the xtreme vs the plugin with the knock block and it wasnt much more in the end for the xtreme plus you have sequential igntion, more inputs and outputs only downside is you have to set the extreme from nothing as it can go on any car


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## P3RV3RT (Aug 2, 2005)

Interesting read guys.

What would you say is the best version to go for on a R32 GTR, running standard bottom end and head but bolting on GT35R etc and looking to run just over 600bhp max, idealy would like 580bhp most of the time running 1.5bar.

Is the knock block worth having? If so what exactly does it do? I no you can easily see knock reading on PFC but not sure if that will adjust it.

Also will I need to buy the 7bar map sensor and any extra wiring? Can any map sensor be used?

Cheers Baz


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

r34skyline said:


> that's it, that's why the storm isn't for GTR's
> 
> ahh... knock control... rather useful. It will be running E85 but all the same, still want it.
> 
> ...


it was 1650nzd the g4, lc1 wide band 372nzd,knock block g4 kit 1275nzd, 120nzd 5bar internal upgrade not 7 i just found out on the receipt i have payed for 7bar though so prop they have made a mistake but who cares is still enough for up to 2bars i think to run.
all together shipping by dhl 3683nzd which was 2116euros at that time which is 1 940 euros now so i have lost due to exchange rate + 19% tax you cannot save it 2518euros was the final price including tax which are 2 165 uk pounds. 
but you dont need to get the knock kit which is mega expensive due to the aerial space headphones the lc1 you can get it cheaper from the us. just get the plug in and knock from them with the map sensor for 5 bar or 7. 
hope it helps.


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

does the knock block have major benefits over the knock control of the Xtreme? didn't realise the knock box was that $$


7Bar???????? you need a sensor that goes over 98psi?? that's some SERIOUS boost!


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

the knock block is digital whilst the internal is analog, i think thats the only difference (plus the funky headphones etc!)

i only had choice of 2.5 or 7bar 2.5 is not enough as thats only 1.5 bar of boost


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

oh, i thought that the bar = how much boost, so a 2.5 bar map sensor covered 2.5 bar of boost or 35psi, ie... a lot


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

r34skyline said:


> oh, i thought that the bar = how much boost, so a 2.5 bar map sensor covered 2.5 bar of boost or 35psi, ie... a lot


i thought so too but still ither way who cares still 5bar is enough. 
the headphones are the expensive from the kit which are 400euros i think just to buy alone.


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

r34skyline said:


> oh, i thought that the bar = how much boost, so a 2.5 bar map sensor covered 2.5 bar of boost or 35psi, ie... a lot


I'm having a G4 plug-in fitted soon and have been reading through all the instructions and talking to a few mappers. My understanding is that a 2.5 map sensor can read 1.5 bar boost as the other 1 bar is atmospheric pressure. The on-board 2.5 bar map sensor is therefore ok for cars boosting up to 1.5 bar. If you Intend boosting above that they sell a 7 bar map sensor.


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

spot on atmospheric pressure is 1 bar, which is why the 2.5 they supply is poo!


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## P3RV3RT (Aug 2, 2005)

gtr-loz said:


> spot on atmospheric pressure is 1 bar, which is why the 2.5 they supply is poo!


So its poo because normal atmospheric pressure is 1bar? 

Do you wish to elaborate on this? 

Or can someone post what the real deal on the internal 2.5bar MAP sensor is like? lol


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

i took it to mean that quite a few people run more than 1.5 bar (i do) so a 2.5 is not going to be of much use - you'd want a bit more room than that


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## Markturbo (Jan 12, 2011)

Hi Ron didn't realise you where on here  

AS many people say power fc is old tech, but does the job well and is well priced now 

Link has a good following and many features. 

I personally ran a AEM on my last r32 and would run one again fantastic amount of features, loved that ecu :thumbsup:


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

i'd go a Nistune or PowerFC at a drop of a hat, but because i want to do this flex-fuel thing, i needed a slightly more up-to-date ECU unfortunately -


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## jabran200 (Sep 5, 2005)

P3RV3RT said:


> So its poo because normal atmospheric pressure is 1bar?
> 
> Do you wish to elaborate on this?
> 
> Or can someone post what the real deal on the internal 2.5bar MAP sensor is like? lol


The atmosphere is bar and boost is atmospheric pressure+boost pressure i.e 1 bar + 1 bar boost = 2 bar absolute.


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

yes its not hard to work out if you take 1 bar of atmospheric pressure away from a 2.5 bar sensor you are left with 1.5 bar (which is boosted pressure above atmospheric) as i said before, i personally run 1.6bar so its poo! (for my application anyway)

if you will never run over 1.5 bar then it will be fine, the next link map sensor avaliable to me was the 7 bar one, hence why i chose that one, not because im going to run 6bar or boost!


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## GTR_chris (Jan 25, 2010)

Im having a G4 fitted this Friday by MGT and mapped by them too, cant wait to see the difference if any lol


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

^ plugin or xtreme?


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

not really you can buy an adapter link box and wires which sorts out alot of the bits but it needs setting up correctly, all the sensors etc etc


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

sorry, just realised my post didn't make much sense

was referring to GTR_chris - was he going plugin or xtreme


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## GTR_chris (Jan 25, 2010)

That's a good question, I don't know I just rang up and talked to the guys at mgt who recommended the link so it's wait and see I guess


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

GTR_chris said:


> That's a good question, I don't know I just rang up and talked to the guys at mgt who recommended the link so it's wait and see I guess


I went across to see them a few weeks ago and they were recommending the G4 plugin.


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## EPRacing (Jul 3, 2007)

Well my car is at mgt having the link installed and map as we speak. I had power fc on the car before and it made really nice and good power. But now I have a few more upgrade and Mark & garth say the link will be much better than the fc so I just went for it. I will be running 1.4 - 1.5 bar on gt28-60s which personally I think is enough for me as a road car and a few track day a year.


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

plugin or xtreme?


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

r34skyline said:


> plugin or xtreme?


Well I'm going plugin with a UEGO controller wired back to the G4 closed loop, 2.5 bar MAP sensor is fine for me as I'm using standard turbos albeit reconditioned with new steel cores so ok for about 1.2/1.3 bar boost and MAF delete. Hopefully in the next week or so.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

i read about all of you fitting their g4, and i am so jealous, i have it for the last year in the box so i thing its time when i go back to test my skills with it to learn how to tune it, let me know just what your tuner recommends you about the max and min and idle AFR so i dont blow the stock engine, i would like to keep it extra safe in case the one i building goes wrong.


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

any issues at all with the G4's to control the CAS? something that the FC/Nistune do very well yet other high $ ecu's struggle with. 

And for those that went plugins, did you talk about the Xtreme version with your tuners? any reason why plugins were chosen over the Xtreme?


cheers


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

i dont think the cas is an issue seems fine on mine


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## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

Hi Everyone

we entrusted MGT to install and map our OS Giken R33. We chose the G4 Link over any other ECU system due to its already proven track record. It offer so many standard features such as Launch, Anti-Lag etc and if you wish to even more. We were very pleased with our mapping and overall driveability of the car after it was mapped. 

CAS related issues on higher rpm's can be resolved in a number of ways which im sure the MGT guys can advise on.


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

what were the cas related issues?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

The cas is driven by the cam belt and can freak out at high rpm.

For most engines the stock CAS works fine but for higher output, higher rpm engines we run a crank trigger and a modified CAS together.

Rob


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

high rpm yo mean???
if i run up to 9000rpm in a 34 you think or ever hear of any prob?


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

+1 interested on what you've found to need crank tiggers and modified CAS


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

i take it for a standard rev limit that its fine then?


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

what is standard exactly?


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

7500-8000rpm


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

yeah, i'd be in that category - nismo mfd screen had an 8k warning in the rev limit section, so don't think my 26 was built in any special rev happy way


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

There's quite a few variables like cam belt type, cam belt tension etc and you could have ignition "scatter" and not even know it.

Anything driven by a belt can get all sorts of harmonics at different rpm, just look at your powersteering belt next time your car is on the dyno and the operator backs off after a power run, they jump around like you wouldn't believe so the "signal" (ie cam belt) to the CAS can be doing all sorts of funny things which effects ignition timing.

Rob


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Thats exactly right which is why hall sensors are used off the crank on pretty much all high end ecu's systems


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

Looks like Link do a range of accessories Including trigger wheels.

Link ECU | Engine Management Systems


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

so why do the powerfc and f con not suffer with these things?


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

and isnt that why there that low resolution setting in the cas settings?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Ignition scatter is nothing to do with the ecu itself, its the CAS playing up due to the way its driven.


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

gtr-loz said:


> so why do the powerfc and f con not suffer with these things?


They dont read at a high enough resolution to pick up on the interference from the way the cas is driven


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## gtr-loz (Feb 10, 2006)

again thats why i thought the low resolution setting was there in the link

Select the resolution mode. Select Low Res Mode = ON for engines with aggressive cam shaft profiles or lightweight flywheels. This will provide improved timing stability on engines that have large variations in CAS rotation speed per revolution.


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

The AEM on my 34 ran beautifully at 500-550ishbhp with Nismo 600cc injectors, then when we swaped to 1000cc injectors and upped the power there was terrible timing drift resulting in lots of activity on the HKS Knock amp. We removed it for the F-con for piece of mind. 

On a highly tuned engine its probably not a good idea to run the ECU off the cam sensor. Does anyone make a suitable off the shelf bracket for a crank sensor now that is resistant to getting knocked/stones & stuff getting flicked up? 

Cheers
Nito


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

now you are shooting me after spending so much, i need to make it more difficult by adding a wheel on the crank?

how much to these wheels cost? and if i use a triggered wheel how difficult is to set it up, does the CAS needs to me plugged off?
why the fcon works well then?


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

If you have a knockblock (well setup) and its not picking up det I'm sure it'll be fine. My knockamp was picking up det with the AEM when we upped the power. If it wasn't being monitored it wouldn't have been long before engine damage I'm sure.

If you don't have a knockblock I'd get one personally.

Regards
Nito


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Theres nothing wrong with a pfc (except it is old technology and cant hold multiple maps) or using a cas to trigger, but if you want the ultimate setup, you would trigger the ignition off something with no give in it ....so at x rpm the piston IS where the crank says it is ...
Between 20 and 40 hp at the engine is not unbelievable swapping from cas to hall all things being equal.
Would you notice 20 hp a on a 650 hp RB ?


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

Did someone use the trigger wheels from link ? do they provide the sensor for the wheel? 
i have the ati super damper to fit, unfortunately i didnt buy the ross one which makes a kit, does someone have any suggestion to prevent the cas problem?
rob what are you using with your link?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

DrGtr said:


> rob what are you using with your link?


I use a link trigger wheel on the back of a ROSS damper with a link supplied sensor, then I use a modified R34 CAS up top.

Rob


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I use a link trigger wheel on the back of a ROSS damper with a link supplied sensor, then I use a modified R34 CAS up top.
> 
> Rob


any pic of it?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

I don't use my CAS for ignition timing, just for relative position.

On Motec ECU's you can log the relative position of the CAS to the crank.

Here is a 1/4 mile run that shows how much movement there can be on your engine, it is a serious issue.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Hugh Keir said:


> I don't use my CAS for ignition timing, just for relative position.


:thumbsup:



Hugh Keir said:


> On Motec ECU's you can log the relative position of the CAS to the crank.


We do the same with the Link G4, rock solid ignition even at 10,000rpm.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Rob,

I take my timing from the flywheel, its a nice big diameter which helps with accuracy and removes crank flex from the ignition timing.

Cheers

Hugh


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Hugh Keir said:


> I take my timing from the flywheel, its a nice big diameter which helps with accuracy and removes crank flex from the ignition timing.


Resolution has been no problem and taking it from the flywheel may give an accurate reference to No6 but if there is crank flex/twist No1 will be running retarded relative.

Just as with us picking up from the front, its good for No1 but in theory No6 will be running advanced relative.

What we need is one on the front and one on the back to measure how much twist we are getting at 1400-1500hp then individual cylinder tune to suit 

Or we could "mix" our data 

In top fuel its several degrees from 1 to 8 and they even grind their cams retarding the lobes more and more as they get towards the rear to compensate.

Rob


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Lol .......... yup am sure that mixing the data would help allot !!!!

Had thought about putting a trigger on the front pulley and trying to get a way to log them.

A scope would work, but would need to post process the data to get a sense of how many degrees of separation.

Would be nice to know though since it would be easy enough to apply a correction.

Might be doable with a PLC and two A/D converters.

Will have a think about that when I get a minute.

Cheers

Hugh


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

Rob, is that your own trigger kit that you have made up?


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## r34skyline (Oct 20, 2004)

interested as well...

at what stage would you say a setup like this i needed? do you need the Xtreme for a such a setup or would the plugin be able to handle this as well?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Piggaz said:


> Rob, is that your own trigger kit that you have made up?


Its a link trigger wheel I mounted on the back of a ROSS damper.
We then made a custom mount to hold the sensor.



r34skyline said:


> At what stage would you say a setup like this i needed? do you need the Xtreme for a such a setup or would the plugin be able to handle this as well?


Usually around 8000rpm+ but its still better at lower rpm as well, the plug in G4 can run the trigger set up.


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

r34skyline said:


> at what stage would you say a setup like this i needed? do you need the Xtreme for a such a setup or would the plugin be able to handle this as well?


I have a posted logs about this exact issue. Standard CAS and a trigger kit. The results are not something to be overlooked.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> What we need is one on the front and one on the back to measure how much twist we are getting at 1400-1500hp then individual cylinder tune to suit
> 
> Rob


Rob,

Took a look at this further and turns out it is quite easy to do with a Motec ECU.

With a 4 tooth wheel on the crank at opposite end from reference sensor, wire it to a digital input then set it as a cam position sensor with 8 teeth evenly spaced. 

Zero the cam position at idle. 

Log cam position to memory. 

The position reported in degrees is difference between front and rear of crank.

There might also be a way to use this as live data that would apply back the error, but not got that far with it.

It might be possible to use this technique with other ECU's.

Cheers

Hugh


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

something i totaly forgot to ask do the r34cas have any difference at 9000rpm+ from the r32-33 one? 
i have just notice that all of you are running the 32-33 model cas when you had this problem? 
and basically what is the difference of the 32-33 to the 34 cas why did nissan change it was always wanted to ask, i know that still the crank sensor is much more accurate and the cas is belt driven but curious to find out the above.why did mines and the most of the big tuners with 9000+ didnt have problems?


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## Mr Bizzle (Jul 17, 2008)

I have a Link G4 plug and play system with a 5 bar map sensor and boost controller plugged into my R34 GTT and I must say that it's a truly excelent piece of kit. I was always a power FC boy before and really looked down on systems like Link. However it's been bloody brilliant. 

The person who maps my cars (Steve, FC Tuning) seemed to get on with it too. We haven't dedicated the time to setup the variable valve timing gear yet tho. It requires some setup and isn't good to go straight off the bat.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

The R32/R33 CAS uses the same trigger wheel as the R34, I assume the infra red sensor in the R34 was changed to a different type when the CAS was re-designed, but never looked since that is not the source of the problem.

The issue with the CAS is that the crank has twisted, or the cam belt has stretched differently at different times.

Things that will affect this are how evenly the cylinders were filled and how well and how accurately the air / fuel mixture was ignited, leading to harmonics and flex.

Anything that can be done to fill the cylinders evenly and ignite the air / fuel mixture at exactly the right time will assist greatly.

A slight missfire will have a similar effect which comes back to why it is important to monitor what is going on at the CAS since it is providing a window on the efficiancy of the engine components.

How do you know that other tuners don't have a problem with the CAS timing? the sort of technology to monitor this is not commonly available.




DrGtr said:


> something i totaly forgot to ask do the r34cas have any difference at 9000rpm+ from the r32-33 one?
> i have just notice that all of you are running the 32-33 model cas when you had this problem?
> and basically what is the difference of the 32-33 to the 34 cas why did nissan change it was always wanted to ask, i know that still the crank sensor is much more accurate and the cas is belt driven but curious to find out the above.why did mines and the most of the big tuners with 9000+ didnt have problems?


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