# 09 Gtr vs 12 Gtr



## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

Hi would like tO know what are the difference on the newer ones? Like what engine changes have been made to get the car down to 0 to 60 in under 3 secs and can a 09 Gtr be setup in the same way.


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## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

The differences between the model years are found here:

http://www.middlehurst.co.uk/content/m_carsR35.aspx http://www.middlehurst.co.uk/content/m_carsR35.aspx

By modifying to various levels of tune, you can achieve far greater results in terms of power/torque and the are now even suspension upgrades. Check out the Litchfield website for more info.


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

Thanks Alex


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Difference are marginal at best, it's all in the launch control software which you can retrofit by contacting litchfields and getting yourself an ecutek remap.


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

I've got a cobb stage 2 and the lc5 2012 gearbox soft wear so don't know if its the same?


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

Is the LC the same if uploaded to an earlier model ?


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## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

ChuckUK said:


> Is the LC the same if uploaded to an earlier model ?


Curious about this as well. I might be wrong but vaguely remember a thread where Adamantium says only MY11+ cars have proper LC.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

There must be something different, as I haven't seen anyone on here getting a sub 3 sec to 60 with more power than a my11+


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## KaizerMotor (Jan 14, 2010)

Only very small mechanical changes made to the car by Nissan's engineers (like different size of oil heat exchanger on gearbox) on the drive-train. The major difference is the software in the gearbox and the engine computer along with refined suspension and body work. IMO all these adding together to give you that 0.3-0.5 sec. when you using LC.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

So why do people struggle to get faster times than a stock my11+ using LC on a car (09/10) with more or similar power ?


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## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

ChuckUK said:


> So why do people struggle to get faster times than a stock my11+ using LC on a car (09/10) with more or similar power ?


Who struggles?


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

alex_123_fra said:


> Who struggles?


You have a sub 3sec 0-60 vbox run ?


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## KaizerMotor (Jan 14, 2010)

So many different factors I think is very difficult to answer. Even with the same car you will get slightly different results every time and the GTR's engine is hand made so all of them is slightly different. IMO True comparison can only be made to the same car before and after any parts fitted or tune carried out . Tuned cars (MY09) with the same factory fitted Dunlop Maxx tyres and gearbox software can do the same or even better times as MY12.


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## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

ChuckUK said:


> You have a sub 3sec 0-60 vbox run ?


What I am trying to get at is the "more or similar power" statement you made. You cannot confidently know that an MY09 car of say stage 1 tune has more or similar power to an MY11

Who actually knows what power the tuned car vs the stock MY11+ has? Unless you strip them and place their engines on an engine dyno for direct comparison the figures are fairly rough estimates.

As Sly says, each standard car will also have a different hp and torque value and you would need a fairly large sample of cars to test to identify the range around those parameters.

If on other hand you took an MY09 and an MY11+ with identical hp and torque output engines, tyres and gearbox software, you'd probably find there is very little if anything in it.


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## gtrsam (Oct 27, 2005)

+1.


alex_123_fra said:


> Who struggles?


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## Fmlad2002 (Aug 29, 2011)

I've never been able to get a sub 3 0-60 best is 3.2, with good tyres, and thats running 570 RRR mode with the 1st gear reduced boost to avoid getting bogged down.

There must be something fundamentally different somewhere down the line with the 2011+ gearbox and software, as applying it to the earlier ones does not achieve the same results...


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

Fmlad2002 said:


> I've never been able to get a sub 3 0-60 best is 3.2, with good tyres, and thats running 570 RRR mode with the 1st gear reduced boost to avoid getting bogged down.
> 
> There must be something fundamentally different somewhere down the line with the 2011+ gearbox and software, as applying it to the earlier ones does not achieve the same results...


Exactly, lots of people on here have tried 0-60 runs with more power than a MY12 and none have reported back a sub 3 sec car, yet reading the reviews of a MY12 it can do sub 3's repeatably.


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## Fmlad2002 (Aug 29, 2011)

ChuckUK said:


> Exactly, lots of people on here have tried 0-60 runs with more power than a MY12 and none have reported back a sub 3 sec car, yet reading the reviews of a MY12 it can do sub 3's repeatably.


Agree - spot on !


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## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

Not meaning to be controversial but there are so many assumptions in your arguments you really cannot draw the conclusion that you have.

"Lots of people have tried 0-60" with "more power than an MY12", "running 570". 

I'd like to see this representative sample of lots of people with engine dyno figures proving "more power" than the average MY12 (whatever that has as an actual power and torque figure as there will be a broad range of those). Not to mention the different tyre compounds between the models.

Maybe there is something fundamentally different between them in terms of software that allows an MY11+ to perform better launches. I'd like to know what that is and what it actually does though before concluding anything like the above.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Alex,

There is a fundamental difference. The 2011 has proper launch control, the earlier cars have a rev limit or starting. I'm certain that most of the difference is due to this, not the power.

While you need an engine dyno to confirm, we know that a stage one gives an mprovement of at least 55bhp, so it's not such a stretch to expect stage one early cars to match or exceed the power of an my11.

Tyres are marginally different, suspension and bodywork may have an effect but I doubt it's hugely significant.

In short if you retrofit the proper launch control, sub 3.0 is possible.


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## MarcR35GTR (Oct 17, 2010)

ChuckUK said:


> You have a sub 3sec 0-60 vbox run ?


Best I have got to is 3.0 with a stage 4 using the MY11 year LC from Litchfields. Much faster than a MY12 from 60 upwards though.

I thought it was all down to track grip and technique


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## MarcR35GTR (Oct 17, 2010)

alex_123_fra said:


> Not meaning to be controversial but there are so many assumptions in your arguments you really cannot draw the conclusion that you have.
> 
> "Lots of people have tried 0-60" with "more power than an MY12", "running 570".
> 
> ...


Mine has been dynoed at 608bhp and 615ftlb with LC4 from litchfields the best i can get from my MY10 so far is 3.0 on the vBox (no 1ft rollout) , very hard to get better than that on the road. However i want to see someone from here with a MY12 beat that on a vbox on a real road as opposed to Nissan on a test track. We are comparing very different types of results i think.


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## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

This is interesting. It is widely published that 2012 cars do 2.8 0-60 stock. I would presume this is not a track only figure?


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## KaizerMotor (Jan 14, 2010)

Adamantium said:


> Alex,
> 
> There is a fundamental difference. The 2011 has proper launch control, the earlier cars have a rev limit or starting. I'm certain that most of the difference is due to this, not the power.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with Adam. I just went through my GTR technical training information and the changes on the transmission like: different heat-exchanger, oil level or oil pan not going to make differents to the 0-60 times. It is back to the software and the new Dunlop Maxx tyres IMO.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I think the 2.8 of the my12 is just what they managed for marketing purposes. There's no way 15bhp at this level is going to make 0.1-0.2 seconds difference over the my11. If it did then stage 1+ my11s would be cutting it down hugely.

At these levels it's got to be defined purely by grip. Up to 60 there's already enough power to pull more than 1g with the gearing.


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## MarcR35GTR (Oct 17, 2010)

Can't we answer this in the real world. Who on the forum has a MY12, with a vBox and can give it a go ??


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## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

Adamantium said:


> Alex,
> 
> There is a fundamental difference. The 2011 has proper launch control, the earlier cars have a rev limit or starting. I'm certain that most of the difference is due to this, not the power.
> 
> ...


Thanks Adam. I knew about the difference in LC between the earlier and the newer cars as we chatted about it. 

I suppose what isn't clear to me is whether the gearbox software update that pre MY11 cars get is the same as the MY11+ cars have as standard in terms of launch control. If the answer is yes, then I cannot see how an MY11+ and a pre MY11 car with the software update will be very different in terms of 0-60 (if they had similar tyres).

As Marc says, anyone with a stock MY12 who could give this a go?


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

This is interesting, not only for the launch but the 1/4 mile time.


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## MarcR35GTR (Oct 17, 2010)

ChuckUK said:


> This is interesting, not only for the launch but the 1/4 mile time.


Am i right in saying that at a drag strip there is 1 foot roll out, if that is the case in this video as per the timing strip, it improves the 0-60 time by about 0.3 seconds I know because i had a GTech timer and that was the only option, then compared it to a vbox.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

0-60 says Vbox, guess he could of enabled rollout in that.


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## GlastoVeteran (Dec 15, 2011)

alex_123_fra said:


> I suppose what isn't clear to me is whether the gearbox software update that pre MY11 cars get is the same as the MY11+ cars have as standard in terms of launch control. If the answer is yes, then I cannot see how an MY11+ and a pre MY11 car with the software update will be very different in terms of 0-60 (if they had similar tyres).


Me too. I'm still not clear as to whether a MY09 car with LC5 has exactly the same launch ability as a MY12 car. Would love to know.


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## Tigerruss (Sep 5, 2008)

Perhaps we need Iain L to come back from the ring and give us his knowledgeable opinion.

Personally I think the 2.8 for a MY12 is not readily achievable on the road, if at all. The launch is so important to get these sub 3sec times that temps (road and air), tyres (make and temp) and measurement e.g 1ft rollout make such a big difference. I know I've never had ideal conditions to achieve a perfect 0-60


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

And probably on a prepared surface?


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## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

GlastoVeteran said:


> Me too. I'm still not clear as to whether a MY09 car with LC5 has exactly the same launch ability as a MY12 car. Would love to know.


So noone knows the answer to this? Iain sounds as though he might be away but anyone else out there? 

Logically if the hardware inside the gearbox is basically the same as the model years have progressed, I don't see that the software side of things would be different if you load LC5 to an MY09 for example and compared it with a standard MY12. Unless you cannot fully copy the MY12 software into earlier model years.


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

We need someone with experience to explain this. Cuz in fact if a my12 does a 2.9 time so should the my09 with the software update. But it does not I think or does it?


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## Fmlad2002 (Aug 29, 2011)

I feel we have been mis-led to some extent with the LC5 software - it doesn't perform the same on a My09 car the same as a MY12 which is what its been sold as...

You should be able to get 2.9 or whatever the book time is on a my12 0-60 everytime - thats the thing about the GTR - it should deliver every time. Yes of course road surface will make a difference as will tyres, but unless you are on gravel, you should be pretty much spot on with the timings....

my MY10 has done quite a few launches, different places different times, different conditions, all timed with the cob unit, best time 3.2, worst 3.4, and the worst was due to me changing up too late....


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

I feel we have been mis-led to some extent with the LC5 software - it doesn't perform the same on a My09 car the same as a MY12 which is what its been sold as...

You should be able to get 2.9 or whatever the book time is on a my12 0-60 everytime - thats the thing about the GTR - it should deliver every time. Yes of course road surface will make a difference as will tyres, but unless you are on gravel, you should be pretty much spot on with the timings....

my MY10 has done quite a few launches, different places different times, different conditions, all timed with the cob unit, best time 3.2, worst 3.4, and the worst was due to me changing up too late....





I've got a stage 2 Cobb map with lc5 and I've only manages 3.8 with no launch 580hp and 600 ft What sort of time should my setup get 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile any ideas?


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

I've got a stage 2 Cobb map with lc5 and I've only manages 3.8 with no launch 580hp and 600 ft What sort of time should my setup get 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile any ideas?


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## Fmlad2002 (Aug 29, 2011)

you should get better than 3.8 for sure - i've never done a non-launch timing, they did however have to adjust my first gear boost, as i was getting bogged down by the TC kicking in every time gave a really crap start, however since the mod, i've had no problems using RRR mode, I dont really want to use RR OFF...

Sounds like they have not spent much time analysing the my12 programme, and just done the easy code changes


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

How many launches have u done? I'm to parrow of damaging the tranny.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

On my Cobb logs I have a 0-60 in 2.96 and 0-100 in 6.95. Also got 30-130 in 10.65.

These times were on RE070s on warmish tyres. LC5 set to R & R & OFF, 1000cc injectors, intakes and y-pipe. cicra 600/600 give or take


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## MarcR35GTR (Oct 17, 2010)

Kabz r35 Gtr said:


> How many launches have u done? I'm to parrow of damaging the tranny.


I have done 20 launches or so, with a VBox I can always get 3.2 and a best of 3.0, have even managed 3.4 without launch !


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

Wow
I would
Love to launce my car but been told it can damage the tranny is that true


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

Kabz r35 Gtr said:


> Wow
> I would
> Love to launce my car but been told it can damage the tranny is that true


Who is telling you about your car? Is it the same person that told you that R,R,R will damage it?


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

I just spoke to a mates friend who has one and said he used it twich and the gear box went and call litchfield for warranty and he said the launches can damage the box.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

If he launch his car just twice and it broke, there was something wrong with the car. 

Did he take the handbrake off? 

That is a joke by the way


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

How many have u done?


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

A fair few now. I use my car at Sprints every now and again and a good start is important. Off to Teeside Autodrome this Saturday


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

What's happening there and how much r u going


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

It is the MLR sprint series, last round. Lots of Evos and Suburus, with a few other cars in a guest class


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

I don't think I'll make it will be going to York race way on Sunday tho.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

Kabz r35 Gtr said:


> I don't think I'll make it will be going to York race way on Sunday tho.


If I end up staying over in Tesside Saturday night, Ill pop through York on my way through :thumbsup:


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## Kabz r35 Gtr (Sep 27, 2012)

Yh do so will be nice to meet u


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## Ventsi (Jul 25, 2009)

Have someone tried launching with R-R-R or R-R-OFF with LC5 and can you tell the difference? I'll try to do some launches this week and would like to know what the best way is. I'm running MY09 with GTC Titan Y-pipe and Ben's custom GTC map.


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## dominic1 (Feb 16, 2012)

can this not be put to bed on 26 April in Wales on a runway


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