# 7:27.56



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Yesterday early evening I received a phone call from Nissan. A standard European spec car had beaten it's own time for the Nurburgring and set a new time of 7 minutes 27.56 seconds! :squintdan

News story

Apparently the delay in starting their final timed runs was due to an earlier incident we believe involving a Porsche. Whilst this didn't help matters and the track was, by all accounts, 'dusty' in places I am sure Nissan were still very pleased with the result.

As well as Nissan attending the Time Attack other manufacturers were there also to make sure the timing was accurate and the car used was as described, i.e. a standard spec European car.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

That is an impressive time :smokin:

I'd love to know about this "incident" :chuckle:


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## peterpeter (Feb 24, 2008)

wow what a time.

lets hope this finally puts all the suspicion to rest.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Let the jousting commence

Good stuff Nissan.:bowdown1:


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

I see it was on the Spec V wheels, so not directly comparable, great time never the less. 


Rich


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Correct it was on the new Rays forged wheels. There are plans to try and better the time later today when, hopefully, the track will be in better condition.


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## SuzaFan (Jul 3, 2008)

OK, now it pisses me off a little, why don't they take the real standard Euro spec car (with the standard wheels) and make the time...??


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## obzi (Feb 19, 2008)

So on a GTR timed run there was a Porsche blocking the track? ha ha

I bet a bit further on further on there was also a Ferrari, a Lambo, a Mercedes...


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

SuzaFan said:


> OK, now it pisses me off a little, why don't they take the real standard Euro spec car (with the standard wheels) and make the time...??


Yes it does seem odd with a headline like that. They shoot themselves in the foot.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

A great time, but totally crazy they did not use a showroom-fresh _standard_ GT-R!

Every doubter will now say it was using Spec-V tyres as well as wheels... 

Talking of which, I notice they have not mentioned a Spec-V lap time yet. Could it be that it is not noticeably faster and thus seem even poorer value for money than it already appears to be? :nervous:


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## Thrust (Jun 8, 2004)

What was Nissan's best time again?


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## MacGTR (Dec 31, 2006)

Twas 7:29.3


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## blindswelledrat (Mar 19, 2008)

SuzaFan said:


> OK, now it pisses me off a little, why don't they take the real standard Euro spec car (with the standard wheels) and make the time...??




Exactly. TO me, changing the wheels renders the whole exercise redundant as it is just more feul for the "Ah-but" brigade, and in this case they have a fair point.
THe only possible reason you would go to all this effort to prove this time in EU spec and then change the wheels is that it won't do the time on standard wheels. I can think of no other explanation.


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

i dont care what time it does....i just want to have my GTR:bowdown1:


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## Fuzzy (Jun 2, 2007)

> As well as Nissan present representatives of other car manufacturers were also there to witness the time and also the specification of the car used. Nobody from one of the German based manufacturers was available for comment!


*Nobody from one of the German based manufacturers was available for comment!* 

YES :thumbsup:


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

The big problem for Nissan is that they just do not appreciate that given their previous actions there are many people who do not believe their times.

If they properly wanted to put this beyond doubt, they could easily do so, but it would involve getting true independent drivers there and actually using and proving it was a stock Euro-spec car.

It will also help when they give a car to Sport Auto for proper testing, who are independent are who largely get very close to manufacturer quoted times.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

They also did this with the full support of Dunlop/Nissan in attendance.

They're out again today, and there's a SpecV knocking about.


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## ZXTTdriver (Jul 26, 2003)

Guy said:


> The big problem for Nissan is that they just do not appreciate that given their previous actions there are many people who do not believe their times.
> 
> If they properly wanted to put this beyond doubt, they could easily do so, but it would involve getting true independent drivers there and actually using and proving it was a stock Euro-spec car.
> 
> It will also help when they give a car to Sport Auto for proper testing, who are independent are who largely get very close to manufacturer quoted times.


Actually the fact that there are still doubters is great publicity and adds to the aura. I'm sure Nissan are well aware of this - but the truth is that they shouldn't feel they need to prove anything more. Other manufacturers and fans of other marques can bleat all they like - the GTR is here and it's awesome - the rest is largely imaterial!

In some ways I wish they'd stop chasing the last few thousanths of a second - what does it matter!


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

Everything counts in small amounts.


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

How does everyone know it wasn't on standard rims?


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## blindswelledrat (Mar 19, 2008)

turbobungle said:


> How does everyone know it wasn't on standard rims?



Because someone said it :chuckle:


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

blindswelledrat said:


> Because someone said it :chuckle:


Oh, ok then. cheers. :thumbsup:


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

I suppose it depends if the 'Spec V' wheels are going to be the 'standard' in future on 'Standard' cars. They have to get rid of all the V bits somehow if everyone sees the standard as substantially better value than the Spec V.

As per my original comment when the price was first announced on the Spec V, 50k will buy you an awful lot of tuning on a standard car.............

DaveG


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## Frenchie (Aug 18, 2008)

turbobungle said:


> How does everyone know it wasn't on standard rims?


See for yourself










Edit : ooops, sorry, this one is a true SpecV being tested at the Nurburgring earlier this week.


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## WoREoD (Apr 27, 2008)

Fuzzy said:


> *Nobody from one of the German based manufacturers was available for comment!*
> 
> YES :thumbsup:


..and I'm told representatives from Porsche Stuttgart were in attendance when the runs were being done.....


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Don't tell, sat in the back!

1. They could verify that no shortcuts were taken.
2. It was the same car all the way around.
3. They could learn the faster line around the circuit.............


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Porsche were there and did confirm the run. Pictures of the car will be available later


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## WoREoD (Apr 27, 2008)

Does mean my car was delivered two seconds late last Thursday!


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Was that through gritted teeth John?


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

When you say 'Porsche were there', do you mean someone official and important?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

I'm not sure of the details but there was an official representation from Porsche. I'm not sure if they were testing as well and came over to see, or whether they were invited. However they did see the car and accepted it had not been modified in any way (wheels excepted). I don't know who from Porsche and I don't actually know anyone at Porsche to confirm whether they were 'impoortant' or not.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Ah, OK.

I ask because it would probably take a rep from Stuggart, or similar, saying "Alles ist klar" for the time to be believed.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I wonder if slightly dusty conditions might not have _helped_ the time a bit, if it helps the car rotate faster on corner exits by letting the tail out, or otherwise let the driver use rear-wheel bias to back in the rear and avoid understeer, then let the ATTESA do its magic and pull the car through.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

kismetcapitan said:


> I wonder if slightly dusty conditions might not have _helped_ the time a bit, if it helps the car rotate faster on corner exits by letting the tail out, or otherwise let the driver use rear-wheel bias to back in the rear and avoid understeer, then let the ATTESA do its magic and pull the car through.


LOL, you make me chuckle.....


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

There's a pic on Evo's news site that shows the wheels. 
WTF were they thinking putting parts from a "double the price, no compromise" special edition on the record-attempting car?!

Just monumentally stupid. I can hear the Porsche/Corvette keyboard warriors sharpening their mice already... 

Don't know which "record" Evo are referring to? The fastest laptime by a Nissan?

It's the ZR1's time or nothing!

(BTW, the ZR1's record lap was nowhere near the best that car can do if you watch it.)


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## ATCO (Feb 2, 2003)

Trev, I suspect Toby would find a drive on the 'Ring educational shall we say, especially if he tried some of his proposed techniques!

Perhaps Moley can offer him some first hand advice......................


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## Hazardous (Nov 30, 2007)

Dealers are going to have to get in a bit earlier for future deliveries. LOL!


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

ATCO said:


> Perhaps Moley can offer him some first hand advice......................


I've asked Toby to come along Dave. Flights only, pax laps from the chaps, beers and the craic, but he declined.

lol


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Lets wait to see what Nissan say officially.

There's a big difference between a Porsche representative being part of the test and approving the car as standard (how could they without dynoing it anyway?) which seems an unlikely degree of co-operation, as compared to Porsche also happening to test cars there on the same day as part of the MotorPool. Don't forget that Porsche like most German Manufacturers (and some UK now) test cars there virtually every day, though mostly for endurance rather than lap-times though.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

The NAGTROC are stating that the car used had the full Nismo Clubsport package on it, hence why it had the different wheels (and exhaust and seats and suspension and diffuser etc)..........

If so this is another complete PR ****-up!


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

If so thats around £30k to gain 1.5 seconds - a bargain don't you think!

D


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

There is a SpecV there too at the moment, so NAGTROG - whoever they are - may be X wires.


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## trondhla (Oct 1, 2003)

Spec-V wheels on that car yes:
Nissan GT-R breaks Ring record | Car News | evo

And these guys here are (for the mostly) not happy:
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/996-turbo-gt2/168752-nissan-runs-7-27-5-2010-gtr-ring.html


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

moleman said:


> I've asked Toby to come along Dave. Flights only, pax laps from the chaps, beers and the craic, but he declined.
> 
> lol


ah right, that you did! The missus was none too keen on that idea though, being pregnant and all. What I really want to do though is to fly in my car and hire Sabine Schmitz to taxi me around, see what kind of time it can pull.

I sure could use it though - I know the 'Ring less than 6speed does!


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

kismetcapitan said:


> I know the 'Ring less than 6speed does!


Forum gold! :thumbsup:


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

The wheels were put on to make more clubsport sales to the stock R35's. simply that. dont worry, nissan doesnt care about the stock cars improvemnts laptimes too much (tho they do, just not as much as the new spec gt-r's.), just the spec-v atm. but more times will release very soon.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Guy said:


> The NAGTROC are stating that the car used had the full Nismo Clubsport package on it, hence why it had the different wheels (and exhaust and seats and suspension and diffuser etc)..........
> 
> If so this is another complete PR ****-up!


Incorrect. Having spoken to Nissan several times today I can confirm the car had the Rays forged wheels on it which are a Nismo part and will soon be available in Europe as an option. Other than that the car was standard and even ran standard tyres. 

Nissan were hoping to better the time today but had to cancel after some rain. Two other cars were sent out to verify the state of the track but came back and recommended that Time Attack be aborted. However, Nissan has some other test days provisionally booked for this month so there may be other attempts at improving the time


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## CJay (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks Fuggles :thumbsup:


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

kismetcapitan said:


> I sure could use it though - I know the 'Ring less than 6speed does!


I'm in bits!


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## supraman (Mar 25, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Having spoken to Nissan several times today I can confirm the car had the Rays forged wheels on it which are a Nismo part and will soon be available in Europe as an option.


Like a few others on here, I'm very happy about the new time, but the shine has been taken off it a little by the decision to use the non-standard wheels - only because it is ammunition for the doubters. Did Nissan say why they took this decision? Was it a marketing move to promote the optional wheels?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

No reason given


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

I doubt the wheels would make much difference and if they become an option, then in fairness it's a 'stock' car.

After-all both Ceramic brakes and an LSD are an option on a 997TT, but I bet they are fitted to cars that go for the lap-times.


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

good point


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## ANDYR35 (Sep 1, 2008)

I would have loved to see the faces of the Krauts as they sit there afterwards crying into their Pommes mit mayo!!!


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## gp900bj (Nov 24, 2008)

supraman said:


> Like a few others on here, I'm very happy about the new time, but the shine has been taken off it a little by the decision to use the non-standard wheels - only because it is ammunition for the doubters. Did Nissan say why they took this decision? Was it a marketing move to promote the optional wheels?


Heavy Chevy has already proven that shaving 3 pounds weight of each wheel can improve a Nurburgring lap by almost 1 minute.

So the real lap time is closer to 8:27.56.


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## Thrust (Jun 8, 2004)

trondhla said:


> Spec-V wheels on that car yes:
> Nissan GT-R breaks Ring record | Car News | evo
> 
> And these guys here are (for the mostly) not happy:
> NISSAN Runs a 7:27.5 in 2010 GTR at the Ring - 6speedonline.com Forums


Those guys on speedonline start off the thread with the words: "on sticky tyres"...


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

Fuggles: What do you know about these becoming an option? I have delivery date of Jan 2010, would consider these, love the design.


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Nissan said they used the wheels to show its performance compared to the ZR1. They knew it needed a slight mod to reach that time and that was it. Zr1 was the reason. And if the track was in a better condition they would have achived that time or closer to it. So its a big sales pitch to sell club sport package and to show you the spec v will be much much faster.


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## Kyuubi (Dec 3, 2007)

What a time...I'd love to hear what conspiracy theory that "HeavyChevy" 
can think up..


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

...


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Some pictures of the car now in the Gallery Section


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## EL MAMITO USMC (Dec 6, 2007)

this is what i found about the car..

Nissan takes GT-R around the Norschleife and breaks previous 7min 29sec lap record

16th April 2009










Nissan has tried to put to bed the controversy surrounding the GT-R’s Nurburgring lap record by having another crack. And it’s good news for the Japanese – the 2010 model year GT-R, with 478bhp and a modified launch control – beat the previous 7min 29sec time with a 7.27.56.

The car was piloted by Toshio Suzuki, a former stand-in Formula 1 driver, but Nissan still isn’t quite satisfied with the time – ‘although dry, the track surface grip was impaired by dust and sand’. That means another attempt is due in the next few days, with the Corvette ZR-1’s 7.26.40 firmly in Suzuki’s sights.

As well as a smidge extra power, the updated GT-R gets a retuned gearbox, fettled suspension, a larger fuel tank and slightly better fuel economy, although this probably wasn’t too key around the Nordschleife. Stay tuned for more updates as Nissan continues its efforts at the Ring.


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## EL MAMITO USMC (Dec 6, 2007)

just to clarify its a "regular"GTR with SPEC V wheels...

and this is whats coming for the competition...


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

As I said before, which "record" have they broken? 
"Fastest Japanese production car"?

They still haven't beaten the ZR1's time let alone the Viper ACR's...


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

how much is a zr1?


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

David.Yu said:


> As I said before, which "record" have they broken?
> "Fastest Japanese production car"?
> 
> They still haven't beaten the ZR1's time let alone the Viper ACR's...


Which have both a lot more horses........


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## Yakozan (May 23, 2005)

David.Yu said:


> As I said before, which "record" have they broken?
> "Fastest Japanese production car"?
> 
> They still haven't beaten the ZR1's time let alone the Viper ACR's...


Is the ZR1 and ACR still in production?


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## SkylineUSA (Jun 29, 2001)

Yakozan said:


> Is the ZR1 and ACR still in production?


ZR1 sure is, they posted the 7.26 a few motnhs ago.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/115637-gtr-vs-zr1-vs-gt2-vs-599-a.html

There are some head to head vids on that thread. ZR1 beat the R35 in everything, not to flame, just report:chuckle:

But, like of you know the ZR1 costs about 30 grand more. Not sure if that is worth an extra second.


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## SkylineUSA (Jun 29, 2001)

EvolutionVI said:


> Which have both a lot more horses........



Yes, but they don't have cheating AWD sytems either:runaway:


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## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

David.Yu said:


> As I said before, which "record" have they broken?


Nissan have beaten their own previous GT-R time. 

If you want to know about what "record" they broke, maybe you should ask the EVO Magazine journalist you are quoting.


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## EL MAMITO USMC (Dec 6, 2007)

SkylineUSA said:


> ZR1 sure is, they posted the 7.26 a few motnhs ago.
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/115637-gtr-vs-zr1-vs-gt2-vs-599-a.html
> 
> ...


you are actually correct. if this is the case we can put a switzer kit on the GTR and im sure the ZR1 has nothing to compete with..

here the link to the 700whp beast..
http://www.speedclubpr.com/scforum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3271


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Ah, so the record is for "production cars that cost less than a ZR1"... 

I'm just Yanking your chain (see what I did there?), of course the GT-R's time is frakkin' amazing, it's just that at this moment, it is not a record.

The Viper ACR's time was set after the ZR1's but has not been as widely publicised. 
Sadly for us petrolheads, the Viper brand as a whole is probably about to be no more. I've never wanted one, but I've always enjoyed the fact that they were around, making the world a better (and warmer) place.

Unless the Chrysler/Fiat merger produces a Viper-engined 500 Abarth perhaps?


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## SkylineUSA (Jun 29, 2001)

I read somewhere that when the Chevy guys posted the 7.26, they said she had more in her, but did not have the time to drop it anymore. Fact or Fiction, I do not know.


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## SkylineUSA (Jun 29, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> Ah, so the record is for "production cars that cost less than a ZR1"...
> 
> I'm just Yanking your chain (see what I did there?), of course the GT-R's time is frakkin' amazing, it's just that at this moment, it is not a record.
> 
> ...


You own a Z06 and a R35?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

From the VERY FIRST POST of this thread and, therefore, the subject of this discussion:.........


Fuggles said:


> Yesterday early evening I received a phone call from Nissan. A standard European spec car had beaten it's own time for the Nurburgring and set a new time of 7 minutes 27.56 seconds! :squintdan


Nope. Don't see any claims of a "record" there. Just an improvement on what had been done previously.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

SkylineUSA said:


> I read somewhere that when the Chevy guys posted the 7.26, they said she had more in her, but did not have the time to drop it anymore. Fact or Fiction, I do not know.


Yeah, if you watch the lap on Youtube, it is clear it was not the tidiest or fastest lap the car is capable of. 
They should have let ALMS Corvette racer Jan Magnussen back in it; he set the Z06's very brave 7:42 time a few years ago.

The Viper's lap is appalling! On the rev-limiter for whole seconds at plenty of places. Can't be close to what the car is capable of, although that car, unlike the GT-R and ZR1, genuinely is approaching a "race car for the road" with its low, adjustable splitters, trackday tyres etc.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Fuggles said:


> From the VERY FIRST POST of this thread and, therefore, the subject of this discussion:.........
> 
> 
> Nope. Don't see any claims of a "record" there. Just an improvement on what had been done previously.


I was having a go at Evo's news writer rather than Nissan, although the story linked to in the first post does refer to the word "record" twice...
Frankly, I don't see much to crow about them beating their own private record. Certainly nothing worth issuing a press release or spraying champagne for. Did they expect the 2009 car to be slower?

FAO SkylineUSA, no, I would love a ZR1, but currently make do with these two beasts:










(Guess which one is faster?  )


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## SkylineUSA (Jun 29, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> FAO SkylineUSA, no, I would love a ZR1, but currently make do with these two beasts:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know which one looks better:nervous:


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

David.Yu said:


> I was having a go at Evo's news writer rather than Nissan, although the story linked to in the first post does refer to the word "record" twice...
> Frankly, I don't see much to crow about them beating their own private record. Certainly nothing worth issuing a press release or spraying champagne for. Did they expect the 2009 car to be slower?
> 
> FAO SkylineUSA, no, I would love a ZR1, but currently make do with these two beasts:
> ...


Don't suppose you were at Castle Combe last August in the Corvette?


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## SkylineUSA (Jun 29, 2001)

EL MAMITO USMC said:


> here the link to the 700whp beast..
> SpeedClubPR.com Tu Foro de Eventos de Autos Internacional



Are there any 1/4 times for that car? It does sound pretty darn good:thumbsup: even for a v6:flame:


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## gp900bj (Nov 24, 2008)

David.Yu said:


> Yeah, if you watch the lap on Youtube, it is clear it was not the tidiest or fastest lap the car is capable of.
> They should have let ALMS Corvette racer Jan Magnussen back in it; he set the Z06's very brave 7:42 time a few years ago.
> 
> The Viper's lap is appalling! On the rev-limiter for whole seconds at plenty of places. Can't be close to what the car is capable of, although that car, unlike the GT-R and ZR1, genuinely is approaching a "race car for the road" with its low, adjustable splitters, trackday tyres etc.


I dont' get why a lot of people claim that the Viper's lap is appalling. Coronel made several attempts at getting a proper time and no doubt revised his technique over each lap, working out what technique would give him the best possible time.

The Viper has the worst manual shift action of all of the American Muscle cars on the market today. The ratios are absurd, shift times can last as long as two seconds and even then there's no guarantee that you'll mesh, meaning shift times of +3 seconds if you don't make the gear. You'll see numerous examples of this is in the ACR's ring video.

He was smart to leave it on the limiter and not risk 4 seconds of wasted up-shift then down-shift. That's assuming the shift would be successfull. He would have undoubtedly tried a _less_ rev limiter intensive technique on the previous laps where he produced +7:30 times.

Likewise many people cursed Coronel's decision to leave the car in 4th on the long straightaway. Why would Coronel do this? Because the ACR's 5th gear is FAR too tall to overcome it's huge Cda. Coronel was not the first to discover this. Edmunds took an ACR to Bonneville and discovered the same thing:

_The Viper climbs past 140 mph, then 150 mph and on to 160 mph before the shift light tells us it's time for 5th gear. We shift as smoothly as possible into the next gate, *but the thrust doesn't carry over to 5th. Even with our foot now flat to the floor, the pace of acceleration slows to a crawl*. 

Knowing that the standard Viper has a top speed of just over 200 mph, the ACR's struggle to top 165 mph makes it obvious that the big rear wing and front dive planes that are designed to plant it to the track in the turns are taking their toll on straight-line speed. 

We keep our foot down for another mile or so, but the Viper doesn't go any faster._


This leaves the Viper with 4 _barely_ usable gear ratios. Can you blame Coronel for not wanting to touch the shifter?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

mifn21 said:


> Don't suppose you were at Castle Combe last August in the Corvette?


Yup that was me, and we chatted for a bit.
Your R32 wasn't running right that day if I remember correctly; boost controller problems?


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

David.Yu said:


> Ah, so the record is for "production cars that cost less than a ZR1"...
> 
> I'm just Yanking your chain (see what I did there?), of course the GT-R's time is frakkin' amazing, it's just that at this moment, it is not a record.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I being stupid but what record does the Viper hold? It's certainly not as quick as the Radical or the Donkervoort which I believe are production cars...

Abarth V10 sounds like a good idea but all I can see is people comparing it to the Micra with the 350Z engine and we'd all be back where we started!


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

David.Yu said:


> Yup that was me, and we chatted for a bit.
> Your R32 wasn't running right that day if I remember correctly; boost controller problems?


Yeah it turned out to be a failed stepper motor on the HKS boost controller (quite common apparently) - it had stuck partially open so it was constantly overboosting. Had I know that at the time I would have just bypassed it and run actuator boost! Any plans to track the GTR this year?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Cris said:


> Perhaps I being stupid but what record does the Viper hold? It's certainly not as quick as the Radical or the Donkervoort which I believe are production cars...
> 
> Abarth V10 sounds like a good idea but all I can see is people comparing it to the Micra with the 350Z engine and we'd all be back where we started!


Good point about the SR8 Turbo and Doonkervoort. No idea why they are generally not accepted as being production cars, although a news piece on PH has just said they are chasing the "volume production car" record. Don't know what counts as "volume".

All I know is the Viper ACR was timed as being faster than the ZR1 which in turn is faster than the GT-R.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Nissan cheated. They must have.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

robsm said:


> Fuggles: What do you know about these becoming an option?.


I have been speaking to Nissan today about this and should have some information for you relatively soon.


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

Thanks for that Fuggles, I didn't think I'd seen anything about a record but couldn't be bothered to go back and check!

I don't really know why we're worrying about ZR1 and Viper ACR times anyway. Both are the ultimate incarnations of 2 seater out and out sports cars with shed loads more power and loads less weight. The amazing thing about the GTR time is that its a 4 seater (cough) car with a boot that can be used everyday that costs £55k. The ZR1 could be used everyday but costs twice as much in the UK and the ACR is practically a race car with no practicality at all, don't get me wrong I think both the Yank cars are great, just wouldn't want to live with one. 

Anyway, the fact that the standard GTR can get as close as it has is good enough. I'm also pretty sure that if any of us got hold of all three cars on the same day, we'd be quickest in the GTR.

What is a shame is that Nissan, when charging double for a V-Spec (don't care what they say, I'm calling it V-Spec) they didn't add another 100bhp and put more effort into losing much more weight. If they had, the headlines may well be different!


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

To get this thread back on topic...

The brakes were quite warm.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

The latest theory is that the driver triggered a special map in the ECU at the start of the lap. I shit you not.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

moleman said:


> The brakes were quite warm.


That's the SpecV car that was there at the same time. Looks cool though!


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

SkylineUSA said:


> Yes, but they don't have cheating AWD sytems either:runaway:



Yeah I know, but you good ol boys are not in to the high tech stuff yet


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

R33_GTS-t said:


> The latest theory is that the driver triggered a special map in the ECU at the start of the lap. I shit you not.


Cobb access port:chuckle:


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

Sorry but have you seen the power to weight ratios of the GTR/Viper ACR/ZR1?? 275bhp/ton GTR, 387bhp/tonne ACR, 425bhp/tonne ZR1, the fact that the GTR gets anywhere near is impressive, and as said earlier, none of these can take the record unless we all pretend that Radical doesn't exist!

And yes, the V-Spec brakes look great in red! :thumbsup:


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## Wildrover (Dec 16, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Yesterday early evening I received a phone call from Nissan. A standard European spec car had beaten it's own time for the Nurburgring and set a new time of 7 minutes 27.56 seconds!


Is this a story at all - 2 seconds? Not enough to warrant all the calls to Nissan - who gives a fig. Especially as its a none standard car - proves nothing to the folks out there who have or will be buying a GT-R.

I know I'm not interested.


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

Thank you Fuggles.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Wildrover said:


> Not enough to warrant all the calls to Nissan


I didn't. They call me!


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

R33_GTS-t said:


> The latest theory is that the driver triggered a special map in the ECU at the start of the lap. I shit you not.


I doubt they did that, but it's been done before in racing and rallying. There have been Touring cars where the heater control was used to change the boost setting and also allegedly rallycars, where they fitted nitrous and stored it inside the rollcage!


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Guy said:


> I doubt they did that, but it's been done before in racing and rallying. There have been Touring cars where the heater control was used to change the boost setting and also allegedly rallycars, where they fitted nitrous and stored it inside the rollcage!


I know. If people really want to get to this level of insanity then even independent tests by magazines are meaningless. You could just as easily set an ECU up to auto/remote trigger and give fake boost readings all through the lap.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

R33_GTS-t said:


> I know. If people really want to get to this level of insanity then even independent tests by magazines are meaningless. You could just as easily set an ECU up to auto/remote trigger and give fake boost readings all through the lap.


Thing is that it has been done before many times. Jaguar did it with the E-Type with it's 150mph top speed, which only the press car ever managed. Also TVR routinely put special engines into the press cars. The press Cerbera that blitzed all in an early J.Clarkson video, was supposed to be a 4.2 but actually had a 4.5 race engine in it. They also did it for the Chim/Griff, as owners of all these have never ever got close to the quoted power figures, by at least 25% down!

It has always been known that the R33 that went sub 8min was not stock, something that Dirk S. has finally admitted to in a recent GTR Club Mag, something I always knew as a close friend of mine worked for Nissans Tech Centre here in the UK and told me that amongst other things........

The fact is that they bought over a tweaked R34 when new and tried to get a ring-record and couldn't, so never publicised it. I was also there when they tried to run the Z-Tune R34 and again they couldn't get a time they wanted to tell anyone so thats why there's no time for it. Nissan have used the 'ring as a great PR tool when it suited them though, so the PR dept need a big thums-up, even if what they've done has not always been fair.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Guy said:


> I doubt they did that, but it's been done before in racing and rallying. There have been Touring cars where the heater control was used to change the boost setting and also allegedly rallycars, where they fitted nitrous and stored it inside the rollcage!


I remember Lancia changing their "fire extinguisher" bottles suspiciously regularly during one rally!


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

David.Yu said:


> I remember Lancia changing their "fire extinguisher" bottles suspiciously regularly during one rally!


Would have been funny if someone had actually used them on a fire.:chuckle:


Porsche mustn't be any good at special engine maps.


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

I just wanted to say, I'm sure on behalf of many, that it's great to see Fuggles is still bringing us information from his contacts at Nissan. I know there are many people who truly appreciate all the work he has done to keep us informed


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

save FUGgLES

OK I'm drunk

R


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## gp900bj (Nov 24, 2008)

R33_GTS-t said:


> I know. If people really want to get to this level of insanity then even independent tests by magazines are meaningless. You could just as easily set an ECU up to auto/remote trigger and give fake boost readings all through the lap.


What we need is a Porsche engineer small enough to sit inside the GT-R's intake manifold throughout the course of the entire lap. That way he can verify exactly how much boost Nissan is using.

Till that hapens I'm going to call BS on every GT-R lap time that is ever published.


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## WoREoD (Apr 27, 2008)

gp900bj said:


> What we need is a Porsche engineer small enough to sit inside the GT-R's intake manifold throughout the course of the entire lap. That way he can verify exactly how much boost Nissan is using.
> 
> Till that hapens I'm going to call BS on every GT-R lap time that is ever published.


As Porsche would say "No comment"...:blahblah:


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

gp900bj said:


> What we need is a Porsche engineer small enough to sit inside the GT-R's intake manifold throughout the course of the entire lap. That way he can verify exactly how much boost Nissan is using.
> 
> Till that hapens I'm going to call BS on every GT-R lap time that is ever published.


That's a little risky. Such a small engineer would risk undergoing a full cycle.


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

gp900bj said:


> What we need is a Porsche engineer small enough to sit inside the GT-R's intake manifold throughout the course of the entire lap. That way he can verify exactly how much boost Nissan is using.
> 
> Till that hapens I'm going to call BS on every GT-R lap time that is ever published.


Even if they did that it would be said there was a secret route cut into the head to provide extra boost without him measuring it. 

To continue the theme theres a very amusing thread on pistin heds where people post reasons that the GTr cannot do the publiscised 0-60 time. 
It appears the beleif is that a GTr simply cannott be this faster because ...........er..........er:chuckle:.......er .....well ...er .......anyway it just isnt that quick cos it begins with N and not P which obviously makes it slower.:lamer:

And theres even better ones on some of the muscle car sites


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

lol reminds me of a hypnotised hamster on top gear who couldn't be convinced that anything could be faster than a porsche, not even a plastic toy one


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

The simple fact is the GTR has engendered controversy and endless debate since it's introduction for two reasons:

1. It genuinely can do things that should not be possible and it genuinely does defeat most sports/supercars on most measures.

2. Unfortunately Nissan have lost some of the advantage of 1 above by not being truthful and open in the past and also by promoting a car on its track abilities and then denying the owners access to this experience without voiding the warranty, unlike every other car manufacturer. 

So what we have is a mix of brilliance, deceit and double-standards.......


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

Guy said:


> So what we have is a mix of brilliance, deceit and double-standards.......


the traditional mix for greatness:chuckle:


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## gp900bj (Nov 24, 2008)

RSVFOUR said:


> Even if they did that it would be said there was a secret route cut into the head to provide extra boost without him measuring it.
> 
> To continue the theme theres a very amusing thread on pistin heds where people post reasons that the GTr cannot do the publiscised 0-60 time.
> It appears the beleif is that a GTr simply cannott be this faster because ...........er..........er:chuckle:.......er .....well ...er .......anyway it just isnt that quick cos it begins with N and not P which obviously makes it slower.:lamer:
> ...


Well Nissan has invested a great deal of money in hologram technology. How are we to know for sure that the 7:27 ring time was not run by a hologram?

How are we to know for sure that Toshio Suzuki is not just a figment of our imagination?

What if Carlos Ghosn is really _The Architect_ and we are all trapped in:

*The Nissan Matrix ?*

What if HeavyChevy really is our Morpheus and Monaro Country, our Neo?


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## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)

I think you guys all miss the real meaning of this PR actions from Nissan.

Nissan is not rivaling with Porsche and trying to set times for the Ring in order to make the point, that their GTR is the fastest car in the world.

Nissan is trying to promote and push it's own products beyond it's own limits, in order to keep head with the aftermarket.
Just think how much money Nissan/Nismo has lost against aftermarket products from other makers for thier GTRs? Nismo can't be characterized as the fabel company for tuning. Their S1 and R1 tunes were crap against most quality handbuild tuning companies RBs. Even the Z-Tune had to come up with extensive chassis and drivetrain parts, to make it in any way out standing from the mass.

The spec-V is exactly this show case for Nismo-Nissan aftermarket parts , as you can buy all parts one by one in the sports club package . . . .


What is interesting to see thought, is how quick a tuned GTR will be on the Ring. A trafficated AWD, LSD and 800HP engine, together with a specific Ring suspension and tires . . . would obliterate most existing stuff . . .so Nissan wants to keep the head in to that tuning aftermarket parts business or it will soon be X-Jap-EU-US GTR tuner versus RUF, Hamann, ex . . . then nobody will care anymore what a Nissan standard GTR can do or a standard GT3.

Nissan can't and probably isn't so childish to base their sales argument on Ring times, as the philosophy for sales (in japan at least ) is the statement from C. Ghosn: Any times, anywhere . . .which means that you buy a car for the street in first place and not a track car.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

jmotors said:


> Nissan can't and probably isn't so childish to base their sales argument on Ring times



Try looking at the UK Brochure then, virtually every page has a picture of the Nurburgring on it..............


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

jmotors said:


> Nissan can't and probably isn't so childish to base their sales argument on Ring times


Your having a laugh?

They are basing ALL sales on this being a SUPER quick car which is faster and CHEAPER than a Porsche round the "Ring".

FACT.


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Agree with trev and guy 110% 

The ring time may not make a difference in japan but it sure as hell does everywhere else. 

Thats exactly why the spec of the car is important and why there is all the fuss.


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## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)

Guy said:


> Try looking at the UK Brochure then, virtually every page has a picture of the Nurburgring on it..............


I think that phenomena can be attribuated to the UK and europe then . . . maybe european Nissan marketing managers are effectively going that route, which is then real childish . . . .

But I doupt anybody in japan would buy an R35 GTR because of the Ring times in first place . . . most japanese GTR customers probably don't know what is the Ring . .lol

Here it's more of a question of keeping and develloping a customer base and ripping them off with tuning parts before they change the brand or freely loose their warranty for a set of HKS Turbos, assembled at X-Tuner.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

gp900bj said:


> What if HeavyChevy really is our Morpheus and Monaro Country, our Neo?


Then we're all ****ed. Maybe proper ****ed and rabbit ****ed.


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## thb_da_one (Nov 30, 2007)

I think the Spec-V wheels are optional. That is, you can get it as an extra option. If that's the case there's no problem using them for the time attack.


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## rasonline (Mar 24, 2005)

that's a brilliant laptime and i shudder to think how much further technology is going to take us. 10 years ago it was great news when an R33 became the first car under 8 minutes and that wsa such an achievement. now we're talking 7:30 and below.

so was this laptime set with all the traction aids etc. on / off??
because if i'm not mistaken, Nissan are now taking a dim view to people who switch off the launch control and other electronic aids. that's the only real and justified criticism the Porsche guys wouled have over us Nissan owners (i.e. Porsche don't really bother as they now their owners are going to put their cars on track)


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## Dynamix (Nov 1, 2007)

moleman said:


> To get this thread back on topic...
> 
> The brakes were quite warm.



.... and so is my vag1na, that shits hot!


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

According to a Nissan engineer, the SpecV has hit 297km/hr under the bridge at the end of Dottinger-hohe on road tyres!!!


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## EL MAMITO USMC (Dec 6, 2007)

still until we can prove that nissan used a non standard car, we have to assume that it was a regular production car, 




























hey we don't want to destroy nissan dream, at least not yet, jajaja


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

moleman said:


> According to a Nissan engineer, the SpecV has hit 297km/hr under the bridge at the end of Dottinger-hohe on road tyres!!!


That's faster than the GT2 in Drivers Republic's hands ...

Philip


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Philip said:


> That's faster than the GT2 in Drivers Republic's hands ...
> 
> Philip


Which must make it utter nonsense.

DR got the GTR to 272kph there. I doubt the SpecV would have hardly any higher exit speed from Galgenkopf than a stock car,perhaps a few kph. The long drag up the straight is primarily power vs aero, so the 60kg weight reduction might have helped slightly, but claiming it got to 25kph faster when it has the same power certainly doesn't make sense.

The GT2 pulled a huge speed advantage on the stock GTR, for it to equal it in SpecV trim it must have a decent amount of extra bhp, perhaps 50/60bhp at least.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

It's data-logged apparently.


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## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

Hmm... When Marc Basseng tested the supercars at the Ring, he had these top speeds:

Dottinger-Hohe Trap Speeds:
1. Koenigsegg CCX 190.0 MPH
2. Ferrari Enzo 189.2 MPH
3. Maserati MC12 185.5 MPH
4. Porsche Carrera GT 183.5 MPH
5. Pagani Zonda F 181.6 MPH

And 297km/h is 184.6MPH so I REALLY doubt it...

/P


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Actually they are all data logged and nissan showed the press at each one. The first dcd showed us. The second on drivers republic interview.

And yes that speed is very possible. Less weight and over boost make exiting turns great... As well as those brakes to brake later. They also employ driving techniques to reduce over steer massivly. This car is not bad in the hands of a dedicated r35 driver looking for the cars limits and using them to the full advantage.


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## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Nissan are doing very well PR wise with this.. Look at all the other people chatting about it...

Good on them I say..


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## Yakozan (May 23, 2005)

What i don't understand is how the Spec-V can have more boost in the higher revs and not have more power. Does the ECU reduce boost as the revs increase to keep it under 485hp? i thought that torque + revs = power?


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

mindlessoath said:


> Actually they are all data logged and nissan showed the press at each one. The first dcd showed us. The second on drivers republic interview.
> 
> And yes that speed is very possible. Less weight and over boost make exiting turns great... As well as those brakes to brake later. They also employ driving techniques to reduce over steer massivly. This car is not bad in the hands of a dedicated r35 driver looking for the cars limits and using them to the full advantage.


Use your brain for a second. What we are talking about is acceleration out of a corner and then down a very very very long straight. 

Do you seriously believe that a 480bhp/1700kg SpecV out-accelerates a 600+bhp/1380kg CarreraGT?

The stock GTR is slower than a 997TT above 100mph (I've driven both and numbers back this up). The CGT (I've also driven) is far faster.

If the data-logged number is true, then the SpecV simply cannot have the same 480bhp as the stock car, but would require nearer 600bhp to get to that speed on the straight.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Gantry to Bridge is very bumpy though Guy.

Do you think that would work against some of the very stiff Supercars?


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

Do you really care about cheating of laptimes....

Everybody does it,no car ever could do the laptimes the manufacturer quoted.....

M3 CSL should be able to do a 7.55 :blahblah: Maybe the first presscars with special tyres,but after that,nobody did it again.......

i dont care what times it does or if they cheat,as they all do it....


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## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

Yakozan: the Spec V has more boost midrange, not on top. So basically more torque, not outright bhp.

/P


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## psdrei (Apr 29, 2009)




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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

moleman said:


> Gantry to Bridge is very bumpy though Guy.
> 
> Do you think that would work against some of the very stiff Supercars?


No, any race driver will be flat to the floor the whole way.......


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## gp900bj (Nov 24, 2008)

Guy said:


> Use your brain for a second. What we are talking about is acceleration out of a corner and then down a very very very long straight.
> 
> Do you seriously believe that a 480bhp/1700kg SpecV out-accelerates a 600+bhp/1380kg CarreraGT?
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that Rohrl has hit 302km/h down the Nordschleife straight in the 997 GT2 and he claims it can go even quicker.

Nissan claims 290km/h for the base GT-R and 297km/h for the Spec-V.

GM claimed 295km/h for the C6 Z06.

No journalist has ever been able to reproduce any of these claimed Hohe speeds in any of these cars. HVS was some 23km/h short of GM's claimed top speed in the Z06 in perfect weather. Likewise Chris Harris was miles away from both the GT2 and GT-R's claimed top speeds.

This does not necessarily imply that Rohrl, Suzuki and Magnussen are all lying.

Furthermore by virtue of your power to weight comparison, you must also ask yourself: How did HVS achieve a higher Dottinger Hohe top speed in the 1560kg/530hp 997 GT2 than he did in the 1380kg/612hp Carrera GT?

Surely this should be impossible given their dramatically different p/w ratios?


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Guy said:


> No, any race driver will be flat to the floor the whole way.......


Yes, but if your loosing traction because of the bumps it will have an impact on your top speed.


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## Yakozan (May 23, 2005)

Perra said:


> Yakozan: the Spec V has more boost midrange, not on top. So basically more torque, not outright bhp.
> 
> /P



OK.
But the Spec-V should have a totally different power curve with the added boost which would grant it more hp at lower revs compared to a regular GTR 
and thereby make it go faster.

Would love to see a Spec-V power chart alongside the regular GTRs one so that we could see the difference between the two across the rev range.


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## gp900bj (Nov 24, 2008)

Yakozan said:


> OK.
> But the Spec-V should have a totally different power curve with the added boost which would grant it more hp at lower revs compared to a regular GTR
> and thereby make it go faster.
> 
> Would love to see a Spec-V power chart alongside the regular GTRs one so that we could see the difference between the two across the rev range.


Consider that the GT-R picks up 2nd at 4000rpm, 3rd at 4700rpm and 4th and 5500rpm.

Then consider that the Spec-V is trapping 4 to 6mph quicker than the base GT-R through a quarter mile and there is simply no doubt that the Spec-V is pushing more at the top end as well.


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## Yakozan (May 23, 2005)

"To lift the thrill factor, curb weight is down by 132 lb and a new high gear boost control device has been added to broaden the car's 434 lb-ft of torque for around 80 sec (!) by 14 lb-ft to 448 lb-ft between 3500 and 5200 rpm"

So it seems the added boost stays all the way to 5200rpm.
The regular GTR has the maximum torque between 3200rpm and 5200rpm. Max power is at 6400rpm.

I don't know how to do the calculations, but is the max power on the Spec-V still the same as the regular GTR? or is it located at 5200rpm?


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Guy said:


> Use your brain for a second. What we are talking about is acceleration out of a corner and then down a very very very long straight.
> 
> Do you seriously believe that a 480bhp/1700kg SpecV out-accelerates a 600+bhp/1380kg CarreraGT?
> 
> ...


i used this quote from someone else...



> Other people who have driven the GT-R have noticed about its limits:
> "A lot of people are misleading when they say about how easy it is to drive. And it is. It's very, very easy to drive. Up to about 80 or 90 percent. But if you really want to start pushing that car, it's going to start slipping and sliding and moving around. It's natural. Any car, be it a single seater or sedan, if you're really going quick, the car has to slide...you're moving the car around a lot. So [people] are secure in the GT-R, and you think you're going quick, but you can go a lot quicker."
> --Steve Millen
> 
> ...


yes i use my brain. at that driving level of the driver, yes, its all about driver skill utiliizing the full capabilities of the car.


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

Nice!


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