# VR38DETT VS RB26DETT



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

After all the excitement and emphasises about the new GTR, would be cool to know how the new power unit compares really to the old RB!!

Have spoken to many peeps out there, since the launch of the new GTR and many tell me that the engine is great , but the RB still better!?! Of course you can't compare a 500HP engine with a 300HP. What many say is that for exemple the Z-Tune engine is still in an other league in power delivery and track usability. Then how would a Nismo R1 (at 480HP) or any setup RB at equal VR power output compare to the new unit?

Of course difficult to say , as power goes through mission, drive train, body ex . . . down to the street and I think that's the main big achievement of the new R35, . . would have the old RB done a better job? Or shall I ask, would you swap in future your RB for a VR in to your R32, 33, 34 . . if technology would make it possible??


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## nismoman (Jul 13, 2004)

i was talking to a new r35 owner,and he said the transmision is the biggest gain over the old gtr


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## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

This is the question i have asked myself many times...................Will i miss the RB howl???????????


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## Nismo-ace (Oct 11, 2006)

Think of it this way tax will be increased for a 2.6 to a 3.8!

I think thats a good reason!

But the good side it'll be worth every penny


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

What about the V8 used in the Super GT cars? Could be an interesting option


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

no doubt the increased displacement makes a difference. But fact is, I'm not a fan of V-engines, I like 'em straight...unless it's a biturbo V12 

The tuning potential is well-proven for the RB26. Virtually any desired power output can be achieved with, if you look at it honestly, mere pennies compared with most other (non-Japanese) cars. How much does it cost to build a 1000bhp RB26? A lot, but it can be done with a click of the mouse and a very large paypal account. How much does it cost to build a 1000bhp Lamborghini? Hundreds of thousands of dollars of custom work, and no guarantee the thing won't blow up on its first dyno run. You could probably order up a 1000bhp BMW M6, but it'd be at least double or triple the cost of a 1000bhp RB26.

But I'd take the transmission. The word on the street is that its the fastest semi-auto available.

So how about adopting the R35 transaxle to my R32  Then I'll be happy.


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## Nismo-ace (Oct 11, 2006)

How much does it cost to build a 1000bhp Lamborghini? Hundreds of thousands of dollars of custom work, and no guarantee the thing won't blow up on its first dyno run


Lol thats some funny stuff


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## doggiehowser (Oct 8, 2007)

You can build any HP RB26 if you are willing to invest in it. That often means new crank, pistons, conrods, completely reworked head etc. Heck, it would probably be an RB28 (maybe even larger cc?) by the time some of the guys are through with it.

And you usually have to sacrifice day to day driveability.

Given time, I am sure the same mods could be applied to the VR38. VR40 with reinforced internals (once they figure out how to get around the plasma lining I am sure)..


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## Swiss Frank (Apr 29, 2008)

The RB26DETT sounds like a proper lump. My VR38DETT sounds like a dyson. I'd take a RB26DETT or a 2JZ-GTE any day. In fact after getting the R35 have VERY seriously considered trying to find a clean JZA80 instead.


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

what about the torque curve for the vr38, its rather nice! and it doesnt need big turbos for effective power.


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## Kanzen (Aug 2, 2007)

Swiss Frank said:


> The RB26DETT sounds like a proper lump. My VR38DETT sounds like a dyson. I'd take a RB26DETT or a 2JZ-GTE any day. In fact after getting the R35 have VERY seriously considered trying to find a clean JZA80 instead.


An unmolested '98 Twin Turbo VVT-i in Quicksilver would be my car of choice. Probably the Holy Grail of Supras. :thumbsup:


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

I`ll keep my 35. The only thing that isn`t really satisfactory is the rear seats. Anything else I`ll work on in the near future...


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## hipogtr (Feb 17, 2002)

IMHO, its much too early to say whether the 3.8 is comparable to the RB26. However, taking time into consideration, the RB26 was incredible mainstream technology when it rolled out in 1989 - I haven't yet got that feeling about the 2007 VR engine (not that it makes it an ordinary engine either).


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

hipogtr said:


> IMHO, its much too early to say whether the 3.8 is comparable to the RB26. However, taking time into consideration, the RB26 was incredible mainstream technology when it rolled out in 1989 - I haven't yet got that feeling about the 2007 VR engine (not that it makes it an ordinary engine either).


Having read trough the Carlos Ghosn book analyzes recently , I found some interesting points to the GTR production. When Carlos came in 99. he actually hunted down every non-profitable sengement of the production lines. He clearly said that times of over-engineering (witch makes the myth about over-eng. fact) are over. Needless to say that the last engines produced in this engineering style where the RBs as all other engines had been taken off the line. 

It would be very interesting to know what that over-engineering was all about, as you can only compare the productprice and the product quality with equal products at same price and lower quality of that time. So how much is the VR overengineered for 2008? Can we actually ask that question at all? is it not the fact that tachnology also gets more accesible by time and evolving Hightech gets more easy and cheap to produce with time, so that there are no diamonds and myths around the car industry in 2008!?


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## StretchGSK (Oct 24, 2006)

For me there is nothing this side of a Ferrari V8 in say a 360 or 430 that sounds better than a howling RB26!!
Then throw in how nice it is to open the bonnet and actually be able to see the heart of the car instead of just platic covers like in most modern cars...give me the RB anyday!

Not saying the VR is not a great engine, just that I dont feel like I am at all second best. Just the notion that we are comparing a 20 year old design with a new engine speak volumes!

good point about the over engineering gtrlux.....over engineering = less profit

Bean have you actually got a R35 already?


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

StretchGSK said:


> For me there is nothing this side of a Ferrari V8 in say a 360 or 430 that sounds better than a howling RB26!!
> Then throw in how nice it is to open the bonnet and actually be able to see the heart of the car instead of just platic covers like in most modern cars...give me the RB anyday!
> 
> Not saying the VR is not a great engine, just that I dont feel like I am at all second best. Just the notion that we are comparing a 20 year old design with a new engine speak volumes!
> ...


Yeah - had it nearly 6 months now.


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## skylinefreak (Jul 8, 2008)

I think they should have left the RB to continue the tradition of the skyline.... but then again the VR is a really good motor....


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

Swiss Frank do you actually even like your car?
you actually own one and seem pretty negative about the car on past and present threads?
This is just a question and not an argument!


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

There is no replacement for displacement. I have played with many RB26's over the years. The engine sound is beautiful, however it has many other shortcomings. Anyone that tries to say otherwise....well... I have nearly 10 years of dealing with cars now. 

The VR38 is a great engine. It can make a lot more power. The VQ which it is "based" on is a good engine. It does not have nearly as good of a sound as an RB, but the torque, the oil pump, the rod bearings probably will make up for it.


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

yes, i agree with you sean. i guess technology realy cought up. right now we are seeing the engine take 600hp (the vr38) and the trans can keep up with that.

the transmision is the setback on the r35, even with modifications to the tcu and clutchs, but that should help alot.

the engine itself can handle up to 700hp without modifying the bottom end. ya i know the rb26 can handle 1000hp, but im not sure what mods have to be done to achive that. i do know we are going to see vr38's do higher than 700hp if the transmission issues are all fixed with aftermarket support. going to cost alot of money tho, alot for the car and even more money for the parts to battle all the heat and stress of all that power, and then more parts to handle the power around a race track. 

anyone remember seeing the esprit z33 chassis with an rb26 engine? that was something amazing! special order for a customer in dubai i belive. they showed it on a best motoring video i think (or something related to the group). it just shows how great the chassis of the R35 (z33) really is... and shows off how great the rb26 engine still is too.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

mindlessoath said:


> the engine itself can handle up to 700hp without modifying the bottom end. ya i know the rb26 can handle 1000hp, but im not sure what mods have to be done to achive that. i do know we are going to see vr38's do higher than 700hp if the transmission issues are all fixed with aftermarket support.


At 700 there will be issued with the bore lining in the VR38. Taking the lining out and sleeve it like a high power VQ and not a problem. The guy from Xtreme did over 1500 hp on a VQ. The head on the VQ flows better stock, than a worked RB26 head. The VR head will be the same/ around the same. 

To make 1000hp on an RB, its a ton of money. Some guys have done it on a 2.6 with a stock crank, but not sure how long they go at that level. They need pistons, rods, most of the times counter cranks. Lots of headwork. Oil pump/dry sump so you don't spit an oil pump every few passes. Do it right and you are 50k+ in the engine and driveline.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

tyndago said:


> Do it right and you are 50k+ in the engine and driveline.


at least. I've toyed with the idea of building a VQ...but that means starting completely over. besides, who has ever stuck a VQ into a GT-R? It could be done...G35x driveline, AWD was done on a 350Z.

But sleeves are required. On the other hand, with boring and stroking, you can get what, 4 liters? A bit more than that even?

I just added an extended sump to my car. It already has an Accusump. I might add another Accusump set at a different pressure. My bearings have been measured four times before startup, and have been measured again after break in. And I still worry.


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

What you could do Toby is taking a VQ35HR and modifying it to theses specs:


> NISMO Type 380RS (2007)
> 
> Released as the road version for Japanese market of the Type 380RS-Competition race car , it includes the VQ35HR engine stroked and bored to 3.8-litre, rated 257 kW (350 PS/350 hp) @ 7200 rpm and 397 N·m (40.5 kgf·m/293 lbf·ft) @ 4800 rpm torque. Brembo disc brakes are fitted, as are Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R tires (245/40R18 in front, 275/35R19 in the rear) with RAYS wheels. Front and rear dampers come from Yamaha.
> 
> ...


The tuner amuse has a homekit that will push the output from the 350HP VQ35HR to 380HP and 9000rpm redline:smokin: . . . now ad a twin Turbo kit to that or an Ogura Super Charger !


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

kismetcapitan said:


> at least. I've toyed with the idea of building a VQ...but that means starting completely over. besides, who has ever stuck a VQ into a GT-R? It could be done...G35x driveline, AWD was done on a 350Z.
> 
> But sleeves are required. On the other hand, with boring and stroking, you can get what, 4 liters? A bit more than that even?
> 
> I just added an extended sump to my car. It already has an Accusump. I might add another Accusump set at a different pressure. My bearings have been measured four times before startup, and have been measured again after break in. And I still worry.


VQ in a GT-R - Top Secret has a NA RWD VQ setup in an R32.

More than 4 liters. 4.15 liters Darton Sleeves and Crower Stroker. BrianCrower.com - Brian Crower - BC - Nissan 350Z / Infiniti G35 - VQ35DE

Everything breaks. There is no replacement for displacement. Apply the same technology to a bigger engine, and it will make more power.


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## skyline69_uk (Jan 6, 2005)

tyndago said:


> There is no replacement for displacement. Apply the same technology to a bigger engine, and it will make more power.


That is the fact of the matter - no replacement for displacement - hence the Yanks and their big all alum V8s (which have some of the best power to weight ratios of any engines in the world when tuned correctly, their main drawback is size not weight and the raising of CG because of the size and height).

New production engines are not over-engineered as much now due to new racing rules (power limited for production racing meaning no point) and the added cost and weight of doing it for a production car (the RB is VERY heavy!).

The new R35 engine is great and as it is a V6 design it opens the gate easily for a V8 model of that engine for the future (like the VK V8 from its VQ 6 cyl sister). Engineering wise adding a few CC's by stroking/boring and a few extra cylinders (if designed correctly) is fairly straight forward.
A straight 6 would have ended the game there as a straight 8 just isn't a good way to go and you can only stroke/bore so much.


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## Dr Forinor (Aug 8, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> What about the V8 used in the Super GT cars? Could be an interesting option


Which V8 is is that they use? Becasue as far as I knew, it's a V8 from a Nissan of some sort?


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

Dr Forinor said:


> Which V8 is is that they use? Becasue as far as I knew, it's a V8 from a Nissan of some sort?


Motor is a VK45DE, which can be found in various nissan/infinity luxury barges from 2002-present.

Although the one found in the GT cars is quite a worked example and produces nearly twice the power of a standard donk.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

I live with both and like twin sisters you have to share yourself between them !!!! (& of course I love them both equally !)


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

VR38 all day long. Silly question


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Both are fine with me.***12288;I have here someone with a r33 way over 900hp but, no normal drive ability. R35 is even at 800+ drivable. 

but, the price for internals are getting crazy. 500 pounds for valves? 1000 pounds+ for camshaft and 22k for a JUN stroker??!!


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Good to see that GTRLUX has finally found the place for his numerous pointless polls lol


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

RB26 for me but the transmisson of the new GTR would be awesome to have in my BNR32 :flame:

Leo


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

I guess a dogbox in a R32 is faster than a GR6 in shifting time?


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

Sequential will be faster. Dog box depends on driver still


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

having driven both, the 35 transmission is uber quick and you can swap cogs mid bend. no way a dog box could ever compete with it, neither in shift times or useability...


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## KingOfTheGT-R (May 21, 2011)

VR38DETT


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

dual clutch are the fastest shifting transmissions on the world. It is a sequential as you can not choose like a MT. The disadvantage is the maintenance and issues of gearbox parts.


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## Jaw_F430 (Apr 14, 2009)

enshiu said:


> I guess a dogbox in a R32 is faster than a GR6 in shifting time?






enshiu said:


> dual clutch are the fastest shifting transmissions on the world. It is a sequential as you can not choose like a MT. The disadvantage is the maintenance and issues of gearbox parts.



Don't your two posts contradict eachother?........


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## vex_sb (Oct 22, 2008)

VR38

I don't see gearbox as problematic if enhanced properly, for not so much money ...


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## Lukes R35 GT-R (Mar 1, 2015)

Just buy a 35 lol


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

I love the rb26 but it has nothing on the vr38. its leaps and bounds better, your friend says that because 1 he's never seen a vr38 and he's a fanboy of the rb26.

the r32, 33, 34 all amazing cars and the rb is an amazing engine and always will be.

the vr38 is just better in spec, in driving, in cut n shuts etc. hell we have 2000+HP vr38's stock block.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

enshiu said:


> I guess a dogbox in a R32 is faster than a GR6 in shifting time?


In your dreams it is.


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