# RB26 Dry Sump kit Development - UK based company



## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

I bought my first ever R33 GTR, and then shortly after a couple months of ownership, the engine started knocking, even though it was recently rebuilt by a specialist. I took the engine out, and checked to see what the problem was, and the big end bearing on rod no.2 had completely cooked itself, thankfully the crank will get away with a polish.

I have been researching into dry sump kits, and its hard to find some from the UK, most of them are all coming from USA or Australia. So I contacted a company based in the UK, who specialize in various engineering solutions and one of them is Dry sump kits. They supply kits for various engines but not for the RB26, when I asked them why is this, their reply was "because nobody has ever asked us for an RB26 kit before". 

They are very aware of the oil issues on the RB26. I will be working with them to develop a near complete kit minius the lines as these will need to be tailored to each platform (R32, R33, R34 etc) I have asked them to make a kit which will be approx 98% complete, even includes the required bungs to disable the internal oiling system. 

It will come with the instructions etc, and they will be using my engine block to design the system around. Their pumps start from 3 stages up to 5 stages I wanted to gather some interest from those who would want to purchase a kit and then not worry about oil issues again!

These kits will be suitable for both track and also road use, so you can enjoy the car how it was meant to be enjoyed. This will also mean we will see more skylines on track, rather than in the workshops being rebuilt. 


The pricing will be worked out once they cost up the development costs etc but it will not be ridiculously priced like other kits on the market and the main thing is there will be none of that 'GTR TAX' rubbish. The prototype will be tested extensively on my R33 GTR, both on track and road, to ensure it is reliable, which it will be as the company has produced very good reliable kits for other engines. 


If we can get enough interest in this then obviously there will be a discount and the price will be cheaper overall, and being a UK based company the spares will be easily available customer service will be super fast. Lets sort out the RB oiling issues properly, and not have to worry about engine failure while racing on track. Some say dry sump is overkill for the road, but I think its not and some people on here already run dry sump systems on road without any issues.

I have already contacted Mike before I posted this thread, and he is happy for it to be posted, At this stage it's interest only in this RB26 Dry Sump Kit.

EDIT: The fittings may be included, but not confirmed at this stage so all you may need is the AN hoses to fit this kit.


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## Calibrat (Jan 22, 2013)

would it not be cheaper and easier to just extended the standard sump? which could be done sideways and the pickup dosent even have to be changed.

theres also aftermarket head drain kits to help combat oil starvation


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Why do all that when you can just be done with it and fit the real solution to the problem. Extended sump etc is still very good but does not come close to a dry sump


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

I'm interested in a realistically priced dry sump setup.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

It will be better than having to rebuild your engine due to bearing failure because the wet sump could not cope with the abuse on the track! Dry sump is the ultimate in oil control, and your engine will last a very long time.

Let's get a list going:

1. Saifskyline
2. AlexJ


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## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

It is definitely the best solution to the problem, rather than just a mask.

Be good to see what you come up with.

What would you do with sump design??
Surely it would have to be manufactured on an exchange basis??

Also, on anything other than a dedicated track only car, your limited to having the tank in the boot. I found the long hose lengths caused a few problems.


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## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Would be interesting to see how this progresses.

Ultimately interest would boil down to a few factors, being, price, quality and test results.

How would you go about placing an external pump? where would you place the oil tank?


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## David (Apr 25, 2003)

I could be interested, but am put off as my car is primarily a road car therefore I would want Aircon (I don't think anyone does a kit retaining aircon) and I would want to make sure there is no oil smell you typically get with dry sump setups


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

David said:


> I could be interested, but am put off as my car is primarily a road car therefore I would want Aircon (I don't think anyone does a kit retaining aircon) and I would want to make sure there is no oil smell you typically get with dry sump setups


I had a similar thought. It did occur to me that you could remove the mechanical PS pump and replace it with an electric pump and use the position to drive to new oil pump.

Just a thought.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

The cause of your bearing failure is down to something else other than a pump failure. If there was not enough clearance on rod no.2 and running a bit tight not even a dry sump would help prevent that. It really annoys me when people build engines and either through negligence or lack of dedication **** things up. 

I thought about a dry sump kit and it was too expensive for me as my engine was stock so would have to add costs for not only updated items but also the kit itself. If this offer of your came sooner would have been worth considering.

Good luck Saif hope it works out well for you


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

AlexJ said:


> I'm interested in a realistically priced dry sump setup.


+1


TT


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Not sure if you are re inventing the wheel here.

I know that RB Motorsport spent a great deal of time sorting out how to do this correctly and imagine a number of other UK tuners will have developed robust solutions.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Your looking at 5k plus for a dry sump system


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

RJT said:


> It is definitely the best solution to the problem, rather than just a mask.
> 
> Be good to see what you come up with.
> 
> ...


They can make them from cast, but exchange would be cheaper I think.
Tank location is up to the user as you can mount it in the rear seat area or boot.

The finished sump may look a little like this:


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

TABZ said:


> Would be interesting to see how this progresses.
> 
> Ultimately interest would boil down to a few factors, being, price, quality and test results.
> 
> How would you go about placing an external pump? where would you place the oil tank?


Hopefully the cost should be affordable unlike some of the available kits on the market. 

The best location fro the pump would be in place of the aircon, but some people want to retain the aircon so something may be worked out for a aircon and non aircon solution. Oil tank would be up to user


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

David said:


> I could be interested, but am put off as my car is primarily a road car therefore I would want Aircon (I don't think anyone does a kit retaining aircon) and I would want to make sure there is no oil smell you typically get with dry sump setups


Yeah I can agree, driving a car without aircon can be a pain especially in a skyline where the cabin temps rise due to heat from engine/gearbox etc. Let's see what they can do in terms of retaining the AC.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Cris said:


> I had a similar thought. It did occur to me that you could remove the mechanical PS pump and replace it with an electric pump and use the position to drive to new oil pump.
> 
> Just a thought.


Great idea, that could work. Also the pump could be located under the alternator or the use of a custom sump with the mountings on the sump for the pump.


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

hi sounds like a good idea

i understand you say


> The pricing will be worked out once they cost up the development costs etc but it will not be ridiculously priced like other kits on the market


but you must have a ball park figure less than ........ 5K ? , 4K? , 3K? , 2K?


Nigel :thumbsup:


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> Your looking at 5k plus for a dry sump system


That's too much, I have already discussed with them the prices of other dry sump kit suppliers and they have agreed not to price them ridiculously! lets see what they decide to charge for each kit. I should know pretty soon so will keep everyone posted on the final price.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Satansbodyguard said:


> hi sounds like a good idea
> 
> i understand you say
> 
> ...


Nigel, they are going to have a meeting to discuss, how much the design, manufacturing, testing etc will cost and then come up with a final price.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I would imagine 3k would be the cheapest it can be done for but I might be wrong.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I looked into this when exploring my oil pump options, the cost put me off, I couldn't get it done less than 3.9k even with trade discounts. On a R32 the logical place for the tank is the boot, that adds extra cost for the longer lines needed. I was not prepared to put the oil tank in the passenger side footwell as done in race cars.

Raw Brokerage kit even when you factor in the strong pound and generally lower prices in the US comes to around 4.5k depending on what options you take.

I would be interested to see how it goes and what price you come down to.


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

FRRACER said:


> I looked into this when exploring my oil pump options, the cost put me off, I couldn't get it done less than 3.9k even with trade discounts. On a R32 the logical place for the tank is the boot, that adds extra cost for the longer lines needed. I was not prepared to put the oil tank in the passenger side footwell as done in race cars.
> 
> Raw Brokerage kit even when you factor in the strong pound and generally lower prices in the US comes to around 4.5k depending on what options you take.
> 
> I would be interested to see how it goes and what price you come down to.


Well said mate :thumbsup:

Same here tho


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

I found a complete kit including sump from midlands performance for £4,100 which imo is too much like you say..

All we can do is just wait a little and see what price the company decides.. 

If its ridiculously priced then it will be cancelled and I won't send them anything

If it's well priced and affordable then it should go ahead!


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Spoke to them today, they are extremely busy and need more time for this project..

The guy I spoke to told me they recently designed and fitted a custom dry sump kit for a customer, for the Porsche Cayman and the whole kit came to £2,000.

They are busy with LeMans at the moment and will carry on with this project after that weekend. They cannot give me a price for this but have guaranteed the price is not going to be ridiculous. 

Also they are not going to be doing sump exchanges etc, they will design a whole new sump from billet/cast aluminium, So you will not need to have your own sump modified, bolt on job !


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## Brains (Jul 6, 2010)

Saifskyline said:


> Spoke to them today, they are extremely busy and need more time for this project..
> 
> The guy I spoke to told me they recently designed and fitted a custom dry sump kit for a customer, for the Porsche Cayman and the whole kit came to £2,000.
> 
> ...


What about the front differential?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

That's cheap


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## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

I cant see it being cheap then if they are doing a whole new sump, especially not machined from a billet. Cast maybe, but there is going to be a whole lot of development costs in making them if they don't plan on selling hundreds of kits....

Its not just a flat oil pan like on rwd cars


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Saifskyline said:


> Spoke to them today, they are extremely busy and need more time for this project..
> 
> The guy I spoke to told me they recently designed and fitted a custom dry sump kit for a customer, for the Porsche Cayman and the whole kit came to £2,000.
> 
> ...


WOW, if its in that sort of ballpark then I'm VERY interested!!!


TT


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## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

2k is impossible, not trying to put a downer on it but.....


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

RJT said:


> 2k is impossible, not trying to put a downer on it but.....


Not really...just depends on how much of a markup the manufacturer wants to put on it. The important bits are the sump, the pump and bracket/belt. The lines and tank, if left to source separately can knock a bit off the cost.


TT


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## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

Well it depends on what you're getting for 2K.
A pump, bracket and block fitting?

The 2k stated above was for a full kit designed and fitted....

You need a pump, bracket, pulley, crank damper pulley and drive pulley, oil block fitting, remote filter and cooler, oil tank and catch tank, miles and miles of -16 hose (for tank in boot), then hose for the feed and scavenge, not to mention all the hose ends and bulkhead fittings. Not forgetting the sump. 
Then you have to decide what to do with the breathers...
Then many people might have to factor in the labour of getting this all fitted.


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

Generally what's the ball park cost of the idividual components when it comes to dry sumping?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Just to put a bit of perspective on this (from an engineering POV), I recently priced up a billet to make a dry sump pan for an engine I'm working on and it came out at a shade under £500.00 excl VAT. Add to that the scanning/drawing/programming and machining costs, then a good quality pump with pulleys and fittings and the £5K cost for a kit like this is not extravagant by any stretch of the imagination. Sorry if this isn't what people want to hear but £5K isn't a GTR tax price, it's a reasonable price for a commercial product. People who machine stuff like that for a living can make more money on a lot of other products so it would be wrong to assume they would do it as a charitable venture. Likewise, they aren't exactly ripping anyone off at that.


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## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Just to put a bit of perspective on this (from an engineering POV), I recently priced up a billet to make a dry sump pan for an engine I'm working on and it came out at a shade under £500.00 excl VAT. Add to that the scanning/drawing/programming and machining costs, then a good quality pump with pulleys and fittings and the £5K cost for a kit like this is not extravagant by any stretch of the imagination. Sorry if this isn't what people want to hear but £5K isn't a GTR tax price, it's a reasonable price for a commercial product. People who machine stuff like that for a living can make more money on a lot of other products so it would be wrong to assume they would do it as a charitable venture. Likewise, they aren't exactly ripping anyone off at that.


Exactly, I cant see them producing a billet sump, not in a million years with such a limited market, there's just too much going on what with the diff and the through shaft etc etc.
Even a cast version would be off the scale, as there would still have to be a large degree of machining put into it.

It would be cheaper to have individual sumps modified. 
If they could make a modification kit that could be welded into the original sump, then that would be good.

Id like to know if the company have been given a sump to work with yet.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

I asked them if they want to do a sump exchange system where they modify our existing sumps to provide in thier kits and the reply was " no we will design a whole new sump from billet/cast aluminium, and yes we are aware of the diff"

Also they told me they already have drawings for a RB26 pump which was done a while back but never went ahead.


Will post more when I hear from them.


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## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

Sounds promising then. I genuinely look forward to seeing it.


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## nozza1 (Jan 13, 2007)

Surely this is too good to be true?

I'd be wary on the strength of the sump being provided? 

Proofs in the pudding!


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

nozza1 said:


> Surely this is too good to be true?
> 
> I'd be wary on the strength of the sump being provided?
> 
> Proofs in the pudding!


The stock one is cast aluminium, a better design can be made


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

If they are looking at a billet sump, I would imagine they will be integrating the pump into the sump. Nice.


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Very interesting thread!

bob


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Just to put a bit of perspective on this (from an engineering POV), I recently priced up a billet to make a dry sump pan for an engine I'm working on and it came out at a shade under £500.00 excl VAT. Add to that the scanning/drawing/programming and machining costs, then a good quality pump with pulleys and fittings and the £5K cost for a kit like this is not extravagant by any stretch of the imagination. Sorry if this isn't what people want to hear but £5K isn't a GTR tax price, it's a reasonable price for a commercial product. People who machine stuff like that for a living can make more money on a lot of other products so it would be wrong to assume they would do it as a charitable venture. Likewise, they aren't exactly ripping anyone off at that.


Sorry, don't agree with that at all......

Going to go dry sump on the Cosworth YB I'm building up and a kit for that is only coming in at around £1800 (as its a 4WD sump I'll be using whereas most YB dry sump kits are for 2WD). Link HERE for the 2WD version which is only £1400 and thats a PACE kit from Burton who aren't exactly the worlds cheapest suppliers. A typical kit for stuff like Duratec, Zetec etc is coming in at around £12-1300.
Granted these are all minus tank and lines but even adding stuff like a decent Peterson tank and good quality lines aint going to take you anywhere NEAR £5k. Bear in mind these kits come with a replacement sump pan which for £1300 is bloody fantastic value and at the price point of where an RB kit should be. If we are looking at having our own pans modified then this should bring the cost down further.

All this nonsense of £5000+ for a dry sump kit for RB is just bollocks!!!! The more people bleat on about how kits are expensive because 'they just are', the more they justify an unjustifiable price. 

Bottom line is, a good quality pump, bracket, sump mods and associated bits and bobs should, realistically, come in at no more than £2k........Dry sumping is not some dark art or steeped in voodoo FFS...its a simple concept using simple parts and IS available at realistic prices for other engines. Just because ours happens to be 4WD and 6cyl is NOTHING special whatsoever. All this nonsense about 'development costs' is bull too.....dry sumping is as well understood a concept as the Otto Cycle is FFS so months/years of development is unnecesary!!!!

WHY do people constantly regard the RB as something special and different to all other engines???:chairshot:chairshot ...It ISN'T and we should not kid ourselves that it is. To do so only gives mileage to those who seek to profit by claiming inflated prices because the RB is 'special'. What a lot of tosh!!!!!!


A £2k dry sump kit for RB??????.......absolutely!! I'd consider that to be an upper limit too. 



TT


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

+1 at that cost I would look seriously at the set up .
as to viability
It isnt the number of RB engines that limit the sales it is the number of people that would consider a dry sump set up that does
And with RBs that will be much higher percentage of ownera than most cars so maybe sales would happen in enoiugh numbers for them to make money and maybe they have spotted a gap in the market


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Question. If a dry sump kit is the solution to a common problem, why have none of the tuners or racers developed one or commissioned one over the years? Surely if there was a solution, Abbey, or RK, or RB someone else would have found it?

Mike


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

Mookistar said:


> Question. If a dry sump kit is the solution to a common problem, why have none of the tuners or racers developed one or commissioned one over the years? Surely if there was a solution, Abbey, or RK, or RB someone else would have found it?
> 
> Mike


Good question, maybe because it doesn't make the car go faster, so only really well informed and discerning customers (that makes four of us in total, including you Mook ) will want it?

I think the GrpA cars had a wet sump didn't they? But engine rebuilds would have been part of the routine I guess.

Seems like good insurance for a heavily tracked car to me. Especially compared to the price of a trick RB oil pump.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

My Bad, RK have done it - http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/166287-peterson-drysump-kit-2.html#post1654641 £3000


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Mookistar said:


> My Bad, RK have done it - http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/166287-peterson-drysump-kit-2.html#post1654641 £3000


I wonder if they'll be prepared to knock a grand off so that people will get them for the £2K they think they're worth? 

What RK offer is with a modified, stock sump pan though. If it were the billet route, you have to add material cost, Faro arm scanning or CMM time (otherwise known as development costs) to get the dimensions of it, machining costs and - dare I say it - a little bit of profit, you're not far away from that figure of £5K.


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

Group buy for £2k? Lol.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Mookistar said:


> Question. If a dry sump kit is the solution to a common problem, why have none of the tuners or racers developed one or commissioned one over the years? Surely if there was a solution, Abbey, or RK, or RB someone else would have found it?
> 
> Mike


Extending the sump with gated baffles, restrictors etc is just covering the issue up, it may work but the owner of the car will still be taking it easy on track.

When you have a dry sump you will not be worrying about corners etc, you will just be enjoying the car and driving hard! Billet sump with pump mounting is a very good idea as that would mean they can retain the AC system!

Maybe they haven't developed any serious solutions, because their main source of customer is engine rebuilds? I would imagine if everyone who owned an RB had dry sump systems then there would be no more skylines in the workshops having engines rebuilt, and the cost to rebuild an RB would fall.

£2k is not the final figure it could be less or higher, but it will be worth waiting for..


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Mookistar said:


> My Bad, RK have done it - http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/166287-peterson-drysump-kit-2.html#post1654641 £3000


That looks good, didn't realise they do a dry sump kit


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

I am always a tad confused with the need for a dry sump for tracked GTRs.

Sam (Git-R) tracks his and has done loads of days with sticky tyres cornering and braking at over 1G, but has a standard sump.

A lot of the tuners in japan appear to run standard sumps on high power GTR's like Mines & MCR.....maybe they just rebuild them a lot, but you would think they would address it if it was an issue.

I have seen a R34 spin a bearing, but he was going through a series of bends holding the revs near the redline, so suspect he had a high flow pump, no retrictor to the head and ran the sump dry.

I occasionally track my 32, but don't rev the nuts off it, have a Tomei sump baffle, head restrictor & Accusump fitted and hope that is sufficient

Anyone here know any GTR firsthand that has suffered bearing damage due to cornering/braking Gs, rather than not being filled up with enough oil/sump running dry due to oil in head/high flow pump?


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

I think a lot of the issue of the masses NOT using dry sump is due to the perceived cost to convert. There is NO comparison between a wet and dry sump system......dry sump is FAR superior, especially for track action (which a lot of us participate in!!).
It makes me laugh how folks claim dry sumping is overkill. You just have to look at the parts people choose to buy to see that we are a forum full of 'overkillers'. 
Standard intercooler good enough for 600hp for your road only R32/3/4?????......yes, but I want to spend £1500 on the BIGGEST HKS intercooler I can get my hands on....
Just bumbling to Tescos and back once a week???....yes, but I want a fire-breathing 1200hp engine built with all the gubbins to go with it!!!

so, a dry sump in the grand scheme of things on this forum is a legitimate item and cures a fundamental issue. Porsche, TVR (IIRC) etc have used dry sumps for YEARS on their road cars. Yes, partly to allow lower engine mounting for better CofG but also to provide a better, more reliable, method of lubrication.


Sam has clearly been fortunate using wet sump in his track exploits but there is no question that a dry sump system is FAR more reliable and consistent. If you look at ANY race car (that is not reg restricted to retain wet sump) then I can almost guarantee that they will use dry sump....thats not just luck or coincidence.....its because it WORKS!!!!



TT





markM3 said:


> I am always a tad confused with the need for a dry sump for tracked GTRs.
> 
> Sam (Git-R) tracks his and has done loads of days with sticky tyres cornering and braking at over 1G, but has a standard sump.
> 
> ...


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

markM3 said:


> I am always a tad confused with the need for a dry sump for tracked GTRs.
> 
> Sam (Git-R) tracks his and has done loads of days with sticky tyres cornering and braking at over 1G, but has a standard sump.
> 
> ...


Ever data logged oil surge on a GTR with a standard sump around a track......I have seen some screens and it's scary


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

I agree with above, people spend ££££ on Tomei pumps, head drain kits, big baffled sumps etc which ends up costing alot in the end.

Fit a dry sump, you dont need a head drain kit for that, will be 10000 times better than wet sump and its not overkill for the road either.


That feeling when you wake up and decide to do lap after lap of a track and not have to worry about oil starvation. I guess people would rather keep paying to gave their engines rebuilt.


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Have heard about the datalogging and I know dry sump is the best way to go, but just wondered if anyone has had first hand experience of a lubrication failure due to g force and not oil underfilled, high flow pump & standard sump etc on theire or a mates car.

I am aware of the internet chat iro oil starvation, hence I have a accusump & tomei baffle to reduce the chances it will happen, plus only run S tyres on track.


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## Supertec (Jun 5, 2014)

Would be interesting to see how this goes.


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

We've made a few dry sumps kits over the years...
I'll workout the price for one..


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> We've made a few dry sumps kits over the years...
> I'll workout the price for one..


And you still use a tomei pump with extended sump so can't be that bad people otherwise rich would have a dry sump set up


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

I don't see the need for one for my motor dan, although there is plenty of people who would benifit from one! (My cars full road trim and I use it for that 99% of the time!) a lot of the problems come from the cheap knock off pumps around atm! That and poorly built motors!


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Saifskyline said:


> Extending the sump with gated baffles, restrictors etc is just covering the issue up, it may work but the owner of the car will still be taking it easy on track.


Nope.

I have a big, baffle sump on an engine built seven years ago. It gets cained. Done 30k miles - approx half on track and 5k of those on the Nordschleife.

Still going strong.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

If you can get a billet cut sump for a RB26 included in your 2k dry sump kit then it's very impressive! But I feel that alone will be close to 2k on its own lol

Greg


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Saifskyline said:


> Extending the sump with gated baffles, restrictors etc is just covering the issue up, it may work but the owner of the car will still be taking it easy on track.
> 
> When you have a dry sump you will not be worrying about corners etc, you will just be enjoying the car and driving hard! Billet sump with pump mounting is a very good idea as that would mean they can retain the AC system!
> 
> ...


I agree and for most skylines are their bread and butter. Build them weak so to have a regular stream of income. I personally believe if an engine is built properly you would have less than half the issues you hear about. Further more you seem to hear more about engines going bang once they have been opened up.


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## C7 JFW (Jun 25, 2006)

The ability to retain A/C would distance this from most of the other kits i've seen.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Have only seen a price from RK Tuning on this thread, really find it quite amusing that you have not discussed the products available from the existing tuners and how you hope to better their offering.

I have seen a number of dry sump systems that RB Motorsport have fitted, they use quality parts with a well thought out system for modifying the sump.

The engine components fall into the following categories:

Sump modifications ...... not a given that you can get this one right.

Dry sump pump - available from a number of propriety sources.

Bracket to support the pump ......... not that easy, even the slightest misalignment will leave your system prone to throwing a belt when the engine is hot. Experienced this several times many years ago when rallying, with a system from a very high end manufacturer.

Pulleys belts, tanks etc. easy enough, but easy to spend lots of money buying good products, especially lightweight hoses that do not give off lots of heat as they pass through the car.

Get what you pay for from most of the above, don't really see that the tuners charge much for the quality that they build into their products, at least that is my experience.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

C7 JFW said:


> The ability to retain A/C would distance this from most of the other kits i've seen.


I would prefer to keep A/C

https://plus.google.com/photos/108002448200759202180/albums/5154262615958514689?banner=pwa

Tyndago's kit look pretty neat and keeps A/C


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Just wanted to point out that I've always compromised on tyres because of the oil surge issue. I do usually brake and corner at 1+g with my 'street' tyres though. Never felt like the car wasn't quick enough like this, if anything the opposite lol! Even at my first sprint the car was massively quicker than most despite only running used federals RS-r's compared to everyone else's R888's etc.. 

Mark at abbey has always warned me against using stickier tyres such as r888's without a baffled sump, he says he can watch the pressure drop even with one fitted on long corners.
One of the cars he looks after has no dry sump but a baffle fitted. It has covered over 20k miles (ON TRACK) with over 500bhp, hollinger g'box running R888's or similar semi slicks with no bearing problems.. Or melted pistons for that matter.. says a hell of a lot to me!!!! :bowdown1:

So, my question is - is a dry sump really necessary on a track car? 

Regardless, for 2k I'd have one


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

git-r said:


> One of the cars he looks after has no dry sump but a baffle fitted. It has covered over 20k miles (ON TRACK) with over 500bhp, hollinger g'box running R888's or similar semi slicks with no bearing problems.. Or melted pistons for that matter.. says a hell of a lot to me!!!! :bowdown1:


Yep. The point I was making above with my car. None of the cars that I do regular trackdays with have dry sumps. Everything from stage 1 32s to 700hp big single 34s. All use 888s.

Not saying a dry sump isn't an improvement, but the idea that it is necessary to enjoy yourself, as was said earlier, is laughable.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

moleman said:


> Yep. The point I was making above with my car. None of the cars that I do regular trackdays with have dry sumps. Everything from stage 1 32s to 700hp big single 34s. All use 888s.
> 
> Not saying a dry sump isn't an improvement, but the idea that it is necessary to enjoy yourself, as was said earlier, is laughable.


Very reassuring to hear - thanks Ian


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Had a chat with them today, and the designers will design a new cast sump which will be bolt on. Also they may have options for pump mounting either onto the sump or on the block. They did a similar system on a Subaru which had two options either on the sump or on the block.

Now they need a skyline with the RB26 for approx 1-2 weeks to get measurements off, any one local to Cambridge who is willing to help out? They will even detail your car and return it back on a race trailer, and you will get a lift back to your house.

You are welcome to check on your car when you feel like it, all they need is measurements inorder to start the design process. Would give them mine but my engine is out of the car and the car is not rolling either.


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## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

This is looking good then, they're obviously prepared to put some time into it.
I'm really interested to see this sump, will you be using 2 or 3 scavenge ports do you know?
Only problem I can see with a pump mounting on the sump is that everything is so damn cramped and it will most likely foul the arb. But I suppose that all depends on how compact their pump is.

I take it you don't want to share what company this is yet? Do they make their own pumps?


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

RJT said:


> This is looking good then, they're obviously prepared to put some time into it.
> I'm really interested to see this sump, will you be using 2 or 3 scavenge ports do you know?
> Only problem I can see with a pump mounting on the sump is that everything is so damn cramped and it will most likely foul the arb. But I suppose that all depends on how compact their pump is.
> 
> I take it you don't want to share what company this is yet? Do they make their own pumps?


They will work things out, they need a car with the engine fitted to get all the measurements off, I told them most people want to retain AC so they will require measurements.

Not sure how many scavenges as yet

The company is PACE 
Pace Products (Anglia) Ltd - Welcome

So please anyone who has a car with the engine still in even if the engine doesn't work, they will take it on their race trailer and bring it to you back with a fresh detail


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Cannot see where you have explained what the advantage of a new cast sump is over the traditional method of modifying a standard sump?

I can see the cost implications of a new cast sump incorporating a front diff housing though.


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## CabbageMS (Feb 8, 2011)

tarmac terror said:


> I think a lot of the issue of the masses NOT using dry sump is due to the perceived cost to convert. There is NO comparison between a wet and dry sump system......dry sump is FAR superior, especially for track action (which a lot of us participate in!!).
> It makes me laugh how folks claim dry sumping is overkill. You just have to look at the parts people choose to buy to see that we are a forum full of 'overkillers'.
> Standard intercooler good enough for 600hp for your road only R32/3/4?????......yes, but I want to spend £1500 on the BIGGEST HKS intercooler I can get my hands on....
> Just bumbling to Tescos and back once a week???....yes, but I want a fire-breathing 1200hp engine built with all the gubbins to go with it!!!
> ...


In addition to the reliability benefits you also get a power benefit from reducing drag forces at the crank.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Hugh Keir said:


> Cannot see where you have explained what the advantage of a new cast sump is over the traditional method of modifying a standard sump?
> 
> I can see the cost implications of a new cast sump incorporating a front diff housing though.


They don't want to modify existing sumps, they would rather a bolt on unit.


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

Seems to be a few gullible people wandering round in cloud cuckooland. Price up the Pace dry sump kit for an Evo, an engine without the complexity of the RB26 sump/diff arrangement......4 grand plus?

Do you seriously believe you're going to get an RB26 dry sump kit with a cast sump for the stupid prices some of you are hoping for? Wake up!!

This will end up north of 5 grand, far north of 5 grand in fact when Pace realise the work involved is on a whole different scale to their Evo kit. If it was doable on the cheap it would have been done years ago.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Why are they quoting 2k? That price is not realistic to me, I would have thought it would be 5k plus as to develop a new sump to incorporate the diff would be around 2k on its own. I don't know why they have quoted you around 2k just cannot see it happening.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Saifskyline said:


> Had a chat with them today, and the designers will design a new cast sump which will be bolt on. Also they may have options for pump mounting either onto the sump or on the block. They did a similar system on a Subaru which had two options either on the sump or on the block.
> 
> Now they need a skyline with the RB26 for approx 1-2 weeks to get measurements off, any one local to Cambridge who is willing to help out? They will even detail your car and return it back on a race trailer, and you will get a lift back to your house.
> 
> You are welcome to check on your car when you feel like it, all they need is measurements inorder to start the design process. Would give them mine but my engine is out of the car and the car is not rolling either.



So what happened to..........



Saifskyline said:


> It will come with the instructions etc, and they will be using my engine block to design the system around.
> 
> The prototype will be tested extensively on my R33 GTR, both on track and road, to ensure it is reliable


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Max Boost said:


> Seems to be a few gullible people wandering round in cloud cuckooland. Price up the Pace dry sump kit for an Evo, an engine without the complexity of the RB26 sump/diff arrangement......4 grand plus?
> 
> Do you seriously believe you're going to get an RB26 dry sump kit with a cast sump for the stupid prices some of you are hoping for? Wake up!!
> 
> This will end up north of 5 grand, far north of 5 grand in fact when Pace realise the work involved is on a whole different scale to their Evo kit. If it was doable on the cheap it would have been done years ago.


Well if it is that much then I won't be buying one simple


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

minifreak said:


> So what happened to..........


My engine is going off to get rebuilt. They need a whole car instead of just a block


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

So how are you going to extensively test it?


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

minifreak said:


> So how are you going to extensively test it?


Once done they will bench test them and/or give them to uk specialists to run on thier cars

It won't be tested on my car as I will be working out of the country soon..


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

So why say at the beginning ofthe thread that it will be extensively tested on your car both track and road?

And what "specialists" will be testing it?


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

minifreak said:


> So why say at the beginning ofthe thread that it will be extensively tested on your car both track and road?
> 
> And what "specialists" will be testing it?


That was the original plan, circumstances have changed. Traders who have race track cars will be the testers


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

Saifskyline said:


> That was the original plan, circumstances have changed. Traders who have race track cars will be the testers


Unless someone really puts themselves forward for this I cant see this happening. IMO sounds like a lot of risk.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

CSB said:


> Unless someone really puts themselves forward for this I cant see this happening. IMO sounds like a lot of risk.


Nothing to worry about they are a legitimate company and work on cars worth alot more than a skyline lol


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Saifskyline said:


> That was the original plan, circumstances have changed. Traders who have race track cars will be the testers


Like who? For free? RK car has a tried and tested dry sump setup that RK sell. MGT car uses the RK setup too. 

Doesn't sound very well thought out if you ask me.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Saifskyline said:


> Nothing to worry about they are a legitimate company and work on cars worth alot more than a skyline lol


Which company is it again? Be interested to see there site.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

minifreak said:


> Which company is it again? Be interested to see there site.


Check the page before it's posted on there


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

minifreak said:


> Which company is it again? Be interested to see there site.


What!!
You've never heard of PACE Products??? 


TT


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Bump, they are still waiting to find someone willing to let them get measurements off your car.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Saifskyline said:


> They don't want to modify existing sumps, they would rather a bolt on unit.


OK, so you cannot tells us that there is any advantage just that a supplier wants to sell you a very expensive part.

There are huge loads going through the diff, I have a concern that a copy diff may not be as reliable as the standard item.

Grafting a windage tray with oil collector and extractor on to the bottom of a standard sump is a far less demanding engineering task than making the whole thing from scratch.

I also have not heard of anyone having a failure of the standard sump modified to dry sump.

Really don't understand what need is being served here.

I am an engineer and love great engineering, but it has to have purpose and I cannot see where that purpose has been identified.


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## BOB GTR34 (Apr 29, 2013)

Any Update on this ?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Honestly I cannot see this happening for 2k but admire the efforts Saif has put into get something developed.


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## RJT (Mar 4, 2011)

Any progress??


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

RJT said:


> Any progress??


They can't progress any further until they take all the nessasary measurements etc from sombody's car.

I would have given them mine but it has no engine in it!

They need the car for a few days and will put it on a trailer and drive it to and from your house, and they will even detail the car after they have done with it. Don't understand why people can't help here as these guys work with Porsche's and other expensive performance cars lol


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## Nexen (Jul 19, 2009)

Is Kendal to far away


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Nexen said:


> Is Kendal to far away


They are based in Suffolk


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

They could do it to mine if they sort my gearbox for free


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## manzy47 (Apr 6, 2008)

Any updates on this?


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