# Fuel type



## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

100 RON Fuel is recommended to maximise vehicle performance. Does anyone use standard 95 RON and are there any reasons why its use should be avoided?


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

Do not use 95 RON on a GTR unless you want det and a big bill. Personally I only used v power and momentum even though the BP garage is closest

Why do You ask anyway?


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

But is there a technical reason? There isn't a warning NOT to use 95. It just doesn't maximise performance?


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

From the user manual:

VR38 engine
Use unleaded premium gasoline with an octane rating of at least 93 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number (Research octane number 98) to maximize vehicle performance.

If the premium gasoline specified above is not available, you may use unleaded premium gasoline with an octane rating of at least 91 AKI number (Research octane number 96), but you may notice a decrease in performance. Do not use gasoline with an octane rating lower than 91 AKI (Research octane number 96).


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

bones said:


> But is there a technical reason? There isn't a warning NOT to use 95. It just doesn't maximise performance?


Why do you want to know?


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Well I think the OP wants to know what if there is no 97,99 at the petrol station. What about the COBB 95 RON map?


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

FLYNN said:


> Why do you want to know?


Because i like to increase my knowledge of things i do not know or understand. I have skills in other areas.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

bones said:


> Because i like to increase my knowledge of things i do not know or understand. I have skills in other areas.


I thought it was because you wanted to save money at the petrol station 

This will explain a bit about det/knock

Detonation - Cause and Effects

As a rule do not use normal unleaded on a unmapped GTR. If there is no choice, run it off boost


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

FLYNN said:


> I thought it was because you wanted to save money at the petrol station
> 
> This will explain a bit about det/knock
> 
> ...


Thanks for this I will definately use the better fuel. I have a stock gtr.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

bones said:


> Thanks for this I will definately use the better fuel. I have a stock gtr.


A Stock GT-R requires 99 RON minimum. Mine runs fine on Tesco Momentum 99.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Iain at Lichfields advised me that the Gtr runs better on V-power and or tesco 99 he said its ok on BP it wownt harm it but it will run better on The other two so hope this helps


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

Takamo said:


> Iain at Lichfields advised me that the Gtr runs better on V-power and or tesco 99 he said its ok on BP it wownt harm it but it will run better on The other two so hope this helps


That's interesting. I wonder what the problem is with BP? Texaco also have a premium fuel.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

bones said:


> That's interesting. I wonder what the problem is with BP? Texaco also have a premium fuel.


Are those two fuels 99 RON rated?

BP is 97 rated and Texaco is 97 also AFAIK.


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

enshiu said:


> Are those two fuels 99 RON rated?
> 
> BP is 97 rated and Texaco is 97 also AFAIK.


Thats good information. Thanks boys.


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

Just another thought. If you mix 50/50 100 RON with 98, does that make it 99? And is it ok to mix?


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

bones said:


> Just another thought. If you mix 50/50 100 RON with 98, does that make it 99? And is it ok to mix?


I don't think so but, I am not an expert in this field. 

Search the Nagtroc forum for more expert information.

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?/topic/30896-fuel-octane-blending-chart/


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks for that. So it does mean you can mix you just get an averaging effect


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

bones said:


> Thanks for that. So it does mean you can mix you just get an averaging effect


Please refer to the table I have sent in the link on the previous post.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

bones said:


> Thanks for that. So it does mean you can mix you just get an averaging effect


WTF?!?

Just don't use normal 95 RON in a GTR unless it is mapped for it. You will blow up your engine if the ECU doesn't retard the timing. 

If you want to risk it, that's up to you. V power or Momentum for me. If I run out, ill walk to the nearest one


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

bones said:


> Thanks for that. So it does mean you can mix you just get an averaging effect


The ball has just dropped. I think someone has put some 95 in by mistake and doesn't want to say 

Run the car OFF boost till nearly empty, fill up with a decent fuel.

Or if you have a Cobb, stick on a 95RON map


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## rasored (Apr 5, 2009)

More power - better MPG ( when driving sensibly ) with V-power !

same with RB25 on standard ECU

You need to run it on 1 fuel only !! , as , the ECU reads the burn of the fuel - and adjusts timing etc. , when you change fuel for lesser octane then ECU takes about 30 miles to recognise then adjusts to suit , every time you change the ECU reads a different burn temp and adjusts ....

thats how it goes with my Stagea and GTR


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

you might also want to read this: What RON are you putting into your car? Are you sure about that?


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## Gavinsan (May 28, 2012)

Fuggles said:


> you might also want to read this: What RON are you putting into your car? Are you sure about that?


wow really interesting info fuggles so basically even if you put v max in it could be below 99 ron depending on how long it has been sitting in the petrol station tank or how infrequently you drive your car ! 
Another point i was always under the impression that supermarket fuel ie tesco had no additives mixed in which is why it was always competitively priced as opposed to shell ,esso ,bp who mixed their own additives so to hear tesco momentum 99 ron is one of the best fuels is surprizing.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Yes. It's a matter of how long it's been stored, how badly it's been stored and how accurate the maunfacturing process was; remember the "R" refers to Research whereas MON refers to the Manufactured Octane Number


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

I know momentum is 99 ron. Is v power 100?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

bones said:


> I know momentum is 99 ron. Is v power 100?


No, it's 98 I believe.

edit, no that was optimax, V power is 99.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

CT17 said:


> No, it's 98.


99 V power here in S'ton.


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

CT17 said:


> No, it's 98.


So the highest available ron is from tescos at 99!


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## rasored (Apr 5, 2009)

bones said:


> So the highest available ron is from tescos at 99!


works well in RB25 , never tried in 26


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

bones said:


> So the highest available ron is from tescos at 99!


Read and find out:

Tesco Momentum 99 RON vs Shell V power


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

bones said:


> So the highest available ron is from tescos at 99!


See my edit.
I was thinking of Optimax, before they started V power... showing my age! 

Tesco Momentum or V power are both 99.


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

enshiu said:


> Read and find out:
> 
> Tesco Momentum 99 RON vs Shell V power


Ive looked at the youtube video on that post and the presenter stated that all cars manufactured for the uk had to be able to run on standard fuel.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

bones said:


> Ive looked at the youtube video on that post and the presenter stated that all cars manufactured for the uk had to be able to run on standard fuel.


Not with performance cars. All performance cars run on minimum 100 RON.***12288;It depends on the manufacturer who had made the ECU to run on which designated fuel.


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

enshiu said:


> Not with performance cars. All performance cars minimum 100 RON.***12288;It depends on the manufacturer who had made the ECU to run on which designated fuel.


But 100 ron fuel is not available in the uk. Isnt the best available 99?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

bones said:


> But 100 ron fuel is not available in the uk. Isnt the best available 99?


Yes, unless you order race fuel in drums.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Have you put 95 in by mistake?


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## GlastoVeteran (Dec 15, 2011)

Out of interest has there ever been a case of engine damage to an R35 caused by 95 RON fuel in the UK?


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

bones said:


> But 100 ron fuel is not available in the uk. Isnt the best available 99?





CT17 said:


> Yes, unless you order race fuel in drums.


Well it says 99 but, it is minimum rated RON. In other words it is 99+. Fuel degrades while in the fuel tank.



GlastoVeteran said:


> Out of interest has there ever been a case of engine damage to an R35 caused by 95 RON fuel in the UK?


Well a lot US cars run 95 on their cars. Probably mapped on 95.


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

CT17 said:


> Have you put 95 in by mistake?


I did top up with 95 the other day. My calculation is that the fuel in my tank is 30% 95 and 70% v power. I have not noticed any issues with performance. It is interesting that the recommended fuel is 100 ron and this is not available.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

bones said:


> I did top up with 95 the other day. My calculation is that the fuel in my tank is 30% 95 and 70% v power. I have not noticed any issues with performance. It is interesting that the recommended fuel is 100 ron and this is not available.


Get a spare (2x) petrol can with 99 RON and fill it up.
Drive your car till it stalls or as empty as possible without boost.

Refill your car with the spare petrol cans.

Find a petrol station and refill the rest till full with 99 RON.


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

enshiu said:


> Get a spare (2x) petrol can with 99 RON and fill it up.
> Drive your car till it stalls or as empty as possible without boost.
> 
> Refill your car with the spare petrol cans.
> ...


Without boost means not going into positive on the boost guage?

I guess i am running close to 98 ron so is that too bad? And this will increase as more 99 is added in the coming weeks


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

bones said:


> Without boost means not going into positive on the boost guage?
> 
> I guess i am running close to 98 ron so is that too bad? And this will increase as more 99 is added in the coming weeks


I would recommend to drive it as close as empty or till it stalls on a safe location.

Refill with spare petrol cans of 99 RON and then refill your fuel tank till full with 99.










Stay in the red arrow boost area and marked side if you have 95 RON accidental filled into the fuel tank.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I'd just take it easy, run the tank down and then fill up with good stuff.
There is no point getting fanatical about it. It's done and not using full power until it's refilled is not the end of the world.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

CT17 said:


> I'd just take it easy, run the tank down and then fill up with good stuff.
> There is no point getting fanatical about it. It's done and not using full power until it's refilled is not the end of the world.


I never had anything lower than 98 filled in mine. Mine is mapped on COBB stage 2 97 RON minimum.

No panicking about it. Just do as CT17 and I said earlier.


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks for your replies. Most helpful.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

Please read back to 06:34pm

and I quote.......




FLYNN said:


> The ball has just dropped. I think someone has put some 95 in by mistake and doesn't want to say
> 
> Run the car OFF boost till nearly empty, fill up with a decent fuel.
> 
> Or if you have a Cobb, stick on a 95RON map


Thats some Sherlock Holmes sh*t right there.

Why didnt you just come out and say, "Ive put 95 Ron in???????????????"

You would have got your answer straight away........ I dont know, some people eh?!?


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

FLYNN said:


> Please read back to 06:34pm
> 
> and I quote.......
> 
> ...


That would be too embarrassing to say :chuckle::runaway:


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## bones (Jun 7, 2012)

FLYNN said:


> Please read back to 06:34pm
> 
> and I quote.......
> 
> ...


Because as stated earlier i wanted to understand about this issue. I had guessed what the solution was. It is reassuring that there are so many friendly people here happy to help new owners with these sorts of questions.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

*group hug*


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## GlastoVeteran (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm guilty of having filled with 95 in the past, simply because I wasn't aware there were any dangers from using it and thought that higher octane was only about better performance, and since I was happy with the performance I didn't bother. I'm a reformed character now however :shy:

In terms of possible damage from 95, is it a case of all or nothing (i.e. knackered engine) or are there different degress of damage that I may not have noticed? 

If I haven't noticed any issues does that mean I have got away with it?!


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## GlastoVeteran (Dec 15, 2011)

Anyone? I would like to put my mind at rest


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Personally I doubt you've done any harm unless you've done it for a long time or have been thrashing the daylights out of your car and it's modified for more power.

It's not good for the engine, but it's not the end of the world if drive sensibly. (Sensibly for a GT-R anyway...)

With 95 in the car would have been making less power, the car should adjust itself to run on the poor stuff you've been putting in.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

On a completely standard GT-R, 95 won't be a problem. California doesn't get anything higher (91 PON = 95 RON) and they have loads of GT-Rs!

It will produce dramatically less power on 95 though. Try a tank of 102 Aral in Germany, the GT-R loves it and you can feel the extra grunt over 98/99 RON.


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## GlastoVeteran (Dec 15, 2011)

CT17 said:


> Personally I doubt you've done any harm unless you've done it for a long time or have been thrashing the daylights out of your car and it's modified for more power.
> 
> It's not good for the engine, but it's not the end of the world if drive sensibly. (Sensibly for a GT-R anyway...)
> 
> With 95 in the car would have been making less power, the car should adjust itself to run on the poor stuff you've been putting in.


Thanks CT :thumbsup:


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## GlastoVeteran (Dec 15, 2011)

David.Yu said:


> On a completely standard GT-R, 95 won't be a problem. California doesn't get anything higher (91 PON = 95 RON) and they have loads of GT-Rs!


True David, but as I think was pointed out before their cars are mapped for it.


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## GlastoVeteran (Dec 15, 2011)

I think the fact that nobody has ever heard of harm done to an R35 engine from 95 RON fuel puts my mind at rest.


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## Jonesthetooth (Mar 20, 2012)

Not sure if this helps but during the recent 'fuel crisis' when we were all told to stock up on fuel by our wonderful government, I couldn't get Tesco Momentum fuel or V-max anywhere as people who would normally have filled up on 95 RON were buying up anything they could get. I had a mild moment of panic as I was still running the car in and called the local NHPC to check it would be alright to stick some 95 in. The advice was that it wouldn't do any damage but there would be decrease in performance but do put at least 98RON fuel routinely.


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## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

I'd also say that 95 RON on the odd occasion would be fine especially if standard. I don't know much about the standard ECU/maps of GT-Rs but I'd be surprised if a car of this complexity did not have some adaptive features for fuel quality (within reason). 

In my experience (from many cars), to get the maximum performance from a standard setup it isn't just about putting the best fuel in. Going on good spirited drives with high quality fuel and using the entire rev range does wonders (as opposed to pootling around town at less than 30mph for several tank-fills). Sports cars thrive on getting used properly (from an engine perspective anyway).


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## GlastoVeteran (Dec 15, 2011)

Thanks chaps - I will go off and worry about something different now


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## peterpeter (Feb 24, 2008)

try the football


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## C2 VXT (Feb 28, 2009)

Whilst driving through Slough once on the search for Vpower, all of the Shell garages within the area had closed down. So I had no choice but to put £10 worth of 95 BP in. I was devastated:bawling:, I Would have been happier, if I would have had to give the kids cat food for dinner.uke:

A hard lesson was learnt that day..

P.s it ran fine, trundling along.


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## DWC (May 18, 2009)

GlastoVeteran said:


> Thanks chaps - I will go off and worry about something different now


God you sound just like me. Always got some kind of worry. Thats me though. Always been like it and am finding as im getting older im worrying about really stupid things. lol.


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## mrfids (Oct 26, 2011)

Good discussion...

I'vd worked in the oil industry for over 20 years and have worked on gasoline blending models.. 

Your discussions cover all the major points and I concur that with modern engines it is very important to use the correct rated fuel for your car.. A lower octane fuel may damage the engine depending upon the condition of the engine and the load you put it under..

Gasoline properties are complex and difficult to provide absolute guidelines.. Mixing different octanes will generally not blend linearly due to the interactions between the many different hydrocarbons in the fuel.. 

If the wrong fuel is used.. run the engine with minimum load and top up with the correct fuel as soon as practical.. There should be a low risk of damage, but there is always a risk..


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## Lordderak (Oct 9, 2016)

What about the cars Nissan sold in Ireland? It's strange they did not consider the fact that the best we can get in the Republic is 95 RON.
I have had a lot of boosted cars that came in from Japan, took every single one of them for a remap on arrival to run on 95 ron, asking for trouble if you don't.
I would have thought wrongly it seems that more modern engines and more sophisticated ecu's can compensate for the lower quality fuel and retard timing or something.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Why not carry a bottle of octane booster, small and cheap enough?


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## adz87kc (Jan 8, 2018)

Or have it mapped to 95?


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

A thread from the dead... 

Someone pressed rewind on the cassette 😂😀


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Better late than never😊


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Lordderak said:


> What about the cars Nissan sold in Ireland? It's strange they did not consider the fact that the best we can get in the Republic is 95 RON.
> I have had a lot of boosted cars that came in from Japan, took every single one of them for a remap on arrival to run on 95 ron, asking for trouble if you don't.
> I would have thought wrongly it seems that more modern engines and more sophisticated ecu's can compensate for the lower quality fuel and retard timing or something.


You could also consider adding a flex fuel sensor and adding Ethanol to provide a performance boost.

Ethanol is kind to your engine since it will run cooler and if you push it all the way to E85 you will gain about 15% in power over 99 RON, so even more over the 95 RON that you have available.


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## Lordderak (Oct 9, 2016)

adz87kc said:


> Or have it mapped to 95?


That is a fair shout, there is one for sale that has a Litchfield map for 95 ron on it. Rare cars on Irish roads.


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