# E85 Availability



## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

Is there anywhere in the UK you can still buy E85 on the pumps? Anyone want to chip in ?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

This is the only place I've ever seen it Fuels - Millbrook


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## Grimson (Aug 30, 2011)

They used to do it at Morrisons, a friend even had a Saab that ran on it from the factory.

Shame they don't sell it any more as I would love to try it also.


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

Ahhhhhh that's very good it's near Santa Pod too


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

64btzlhy said:


> Ahhhhhh that's very good it's near Santa Pod too


They sell it only for use in Millbrook:bawling:

You can have it made to order by other suppliers:thumbsup:


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

:bawling::bawling::bawling:Yes... I currently by 25 litres but was hoping there was some pump somewhere


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## R32GTR_T (Apr 8, 2012)

What's so good about fuel and the difference between e85 and race fuel


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

R32GTR_T said:


> What's so good about fuel and the difference between e85 and race fuel


E85 has a high Detonation temperature/pressure so you can run more boost. It has also a low calorific value so you need lots of it


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## R32GTR_T (Apr 8, 2012)

johnhanton57 said:


> E85 has a high Detonation temperature/pressure so you can run more boost. It has also a low calorific value so you need lots of it


Thanks mate. 

T


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

It also boost tq throughout the whole rpm...... It's a VERY desirable race fuel


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## 800bhp (Nov 11, 2010)

johnhanton57 said:


> You can have it made to order by other suppliers:thumbsup:


Group buy ?


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## R32GTR_T (Apr 8, 2012)

800bhp said:


> Group buy ?


Good thought


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

64btzlhy said:


> It also boost tq throughout the whole rpm...... It's a VERY desirable race fuel


Can you run much more torque on the stock rods? I remember when Ryan mapped my car, it hit 650lbft on VPower before turning it down to a more flat torque curve and peak 620lbft.

Should knock less so safer in that respect.


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## r33gtsman (Jun 29, 2001)

*E85*

It's a shame you guy's aren't over here in Sweden then as E85 is sold pretty much in every petrol station that we have here.

There are a few exceptions however, like in the little village where I now live we only have 95 or diesel. Drive 15 mins up the road however and 95, 98 and E85 is everywhere ! 

Oh yeah, if your car can run on E85 from the factory here you get cheaper car tax as well as it's classed as environmentally friendly :chuckle:


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

800bhp said:


> Group buy ?


Have ASKED for a quote.will keep you all posted


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## Alexinphuket (Jan 25, 2012)

Isn't E85 rated at 102 octane?

Pal of mine over in Japan told me that E85 is a better performer but you use more of it, so with this in mind you would think that MPG would suffer. However, in the states its cheaper as its a bio-fuel made from corn, so offset the lesser mpg with savings on fuel cost.


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Alexinphuket said:


> Isn't E85 rated at 102 octane?
> 
> Pal of mine over in Japan told me that E85 is a better performer but you use more of it, so with this in mind you would think that MPG would suffer. However, in the states its cheaper as its a bio-fuel made from corn, so offset the lesser mpg with savings on fuel cost.


You need to seriously up rate your fuel delivery system to make big power on E-85 it is not for the faint of heart:thumbsup:

Working on getting a big supply now:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

The main problem will be E85 doesn't get any government subsidies here anymore. Until that happens, there's no incentive for the fuel companies to start distributing it because no one will buy it.


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

robsm said:


> The main problem will be E85 doesn't get any government subsidies here anymore. Until that happens, there's no incentive for the fuel companies to start distributing it because no one will buy it.


But we could bulk buy in Europe and import for race use


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

Lol fair point... I'm interested then


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

I'm working on it now


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## 800bhp (Nov 11, 2010)

The pump E85 mix can vary throughout the year, might cause tuning issues from batch to batch.

Why not make it yourself, just mix ethanol and fuel? think a licence is required though for storing/owning 100% ethanol


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## R32GTR_T (Apr 8, 2012)

How long does is last if you store it?

I would like loads and loads of it hehehehe


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## R32GTR_T (Apr 8, 2012)

Cheapest I found was 

200L for £365 inc vat and delivery £1.82p
http://www.prestigiousfires.co.uk/bioethanolfuel.html


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

SUNOCO (anglo american fuels) sell drums (big and small) of E85R (E85)....

We used it a bit in 2011/12 and used Morrisions E85 a lot in 2010 when it was fairly widespread in the UK. Its a major pain it the arse that they withdrew it.

The GTR was mapped to run a few different mixes...

650bhp on V Power - 1.7bar
675bhp on 25% E85 75% V Power - 1.7bar
700bhp on 50% E85 50% V Power - 1.7bar

Mapping was done with the morrisions fuel.. the Sunoco was better.

We had more to go on those maps, the torque was much better, and most gains were just through ignition advance rather than more boost.

One issue we did have was with fuel lines.... Some started to break down and needed replaced after 2 years of mixed E85 use. The problem lines were at the swirl pot so would have had constant fuel sitting there for long periods.

Injectors were getting towards 100% duty too on the 50% mix... so you'd def need to look into fueling upgrades if you wanted to run it full time in large mixes. I think a rough rule of thumb is if using E85, you would need 150% of the amount of fuel injected

Also smells nice :lol:


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Yep, 50% more fuel consumption, but it isn't 2/3rds the price.

If you get it then ctek is a huge advantage due to true flex fuel support which detects the mix ration accordingly an adjusts the map automatically.


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

yup... my point was more towards injectors/pumps.

Are any GTR owners concerned about fuel price / MPG ??? LOL

Sunoco E85R is somethign like £3 a litre - but it sold as 'Race Fuel' and is different to the Morrisons stuff that was about £1 a litre


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

800bhp said:


> The pump E85 mix can vary throughout the year, might cause tuning issues from batch to batch.
> 
> Why not make it yourself, just mix ethanol and fuel? think a licence is required though for storing/owning 100% ethanol


You also need a license from HMRC and you also need to use a specific Ethanol for mixing with fuel or again the tax man comith.

You can get an E85 test kit to check quality in the USA for about $15 so I think I'll either try to mix it or purchase on the continent in bulk


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Adam Kindness said:


> SUNOCO (anglo american fuels) sell drums (big and small) of E85R (E85)....
> 
> We used it a bit in 2011/12 and used Morrisions E85 a lot in 2010 when it was fairly widespread in the UK. Its a major pain it the arse that they withdrew it.
> 
> ...


Smells real nice Adam .I've got 50 litres in the Garage and regularly go out for a sniff......what a sado:chuckle:


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Ok folks I'm getting a quote next week for 1000 liters E85 (5 x 200 liter drums ) 

Any interest if the price is right in a group buy????


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm interested, price dependent, and how well it stores.

I'd probably only need a couple of drums a year.


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## 800bhp (Nov 11, 2010)

Adamantium said:


> Yep, 50% more fuel consumption, but it isn't 2/3rds the price.
> 
> If you get it then ctek is a huge advantage due to true flex fuel support which detects the mix ration accordingly an adjusts the map automatically.


Our engine uses 14% more E85 than Race Fuel and about 20-25% more than Pump Fuel,

We currently use Sunoco, smells lovely :smokin:


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## R32GTR_T (Apr 8, 2012)

robsm said:


> I'm interested, price dependent, and how well it stores.
> 
> I'd probably only need a couple of drums a year.


Same for me


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

I'll keep you all posted but if I cant make it work then I'm moving to Methanol as i have the pumps ready for it


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## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

johnhanton57 said:


> I'll keep you all posted but if I cant make it work then I'm moving to Methanol as i have the pumps ready for it


Do you prefer E85 to something like VP Import John?


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

GTaaaaaarrrrrr! said:


> Do you prefer E85 to something like VP Import John?


Race fuel from VP is great but if you are willing to seriously upgrade your fuel system then E85 is better if you have also the bigger turbo's and can hold higher boost and or course more timing 

E85 is you have all this is great but Methanol would be better but more upgrades needed


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Can use use Methanol in the JDS series?


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

[email protected] M/S said:


> Can use use Methanol in the JDS series?


Sure can which is why Methanol is attractive for me

SP/R 1.3 Fuel. 
Race fuel and diesel permitted. Commercially available fuel additives permitted.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

really better get 2 sets of injectors in Jeff's then. 

I would check that thou John as I have asked Jeff about that before and I am sure he said not in the JDS street series.


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

To run E85 in a stock turbo R35 you need ID1000s ( or similar ) and uprated fuel pumps. This is a fairl easy conversion. You also need a 99 RON and E85 map on the fly so if you run out you can switch back to pump gas. Ben has mapped a lot of these in the US so he can advise better than I. I personally buy 25 litre drums from AngloAmerican Fuel company. It Sunoco I think. If your drag racing 25 litres should be enough for a days racing. Beware e85 doesn't store well and is hydroscopic. This means it absorbs water and can rust your fuel system if left over a period with no activity. I always use sealed tins and then use it all up. In the US they also use in R35 for I circuit racing. I know my car drives very differently on E85. It's a lot more responsive..... I'm sold on E85 I just wish we could buy it on the pumps


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

r33gtsman said:


> It's a shame you guy's aren't over here in Sweden then as E85 is sold pretty much in every petrol station that we have here.
> 
> There are a few exceptions however, like in the little village where I now live we only have 95 or diesel. Drive 15 mins up the road however and 95, 98 and E85 is everywhere !
> 
> Oh yeah, if your car can run on E85 from the factory here you get cheaper car tax as well as it's classed as environmentally friendly :chuckle:


 your just trying to cheer me up aren't you


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

[email protected] M/S said:


> really better get 2 sets of injectors in Jeff's then.
> 
> I would check that thou John as I have asked Jeff about that before and I am sure he said not in the JDS street series.


Just check with Jeff.....Methanol is fine. 

Still looking at options as Ethanol (Denatured Bio-ethanol) still has slight better anti knock than methanol but shear quantities of Methanol will help cooling.

May look at going up to my Own mix E90 or E95 but whatever we do we will need to pour more fuel through the system so 12 injectors may be required along with the NOS or a Wet NOS system


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

R32GTR_T said:


> Cheapest I found was
> 
> 200L for £365 inc vat and delivery £1.82p
> Bio Ethanol Fuel | UK Suppliers of Bio Ethanol Fuel For Fires - Cheapest Guaranteed


I need to check this stuff out as if it is just Denatured Bio-ethanol then it will most likely be Ethanol 95% and Methanol 5% making it a perfect fuel or fuel base with some Petrol added:smokin:


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

We used that exact stuff in chubby timeattack gtr in he beginning, or i should say in his fire place . but be warned its very corrosive and went though a couple pumps. home brewing is fine if you know what your doing and accurate consistent mixes. Sunaco / VP C85 takes the mix risk out and has additional additives for lubrication of fuel system. Fuel flex ethanol sensor recommended too. Ethanol will easily make as much power as C16, Q16, C23 etc.. but without putting lead into the atmosphere and lambda sensors.

Shell are meant to have a new race fuel unleaded which makes similar gains to C16

biobutanol should be in UK fuels next year


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

Ben .... The Americans you map. Mainly 93 octane or E85 ?


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

64btzlhy said:


> Ben .... The Americans you map. Mainly 93 octane or E85 ?


corn addicts  the price begs belief out there


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

You got your inlets in stock yet? .... I need a new e85 / 99 RON map too .....


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> We used that exact stuff in chubby timeattack gtr in he beginning, or i should say in his fire place . but be warned its very corrosive and went though a couple pumps. home brewing is fine if you know what your doing and accurate consistent mixes. Sunaco / VP C85 takes the mix risk out and has additional additives for lubrication of fuel system. Fuel flex ethanol sensor recommended too. Ethanol will easily make as much power as C16, Q16, C23 etc.. but without putting lead into the atmosphere and lambda sensors.
> 
> Shell are meant to have a new race fuel unleaded which makes similar gains to C16
> 
> biobutanol should be in UK fuels next year


It will be the Denaturing additive which is generally Methanol that would have caused the corrosion. 

That is the down side of Methanol it doe stend to eat shit. What i need is E95 so I'll ask for a mix price and see what we get as E95 with the right lubricants would be the Dogs Nuts:smokin:


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> We used that exact stuff in chubby timeattack gtr in he beginning, or i should say in his fire place . but be warned its very corrosive and went though a couple pumps. home brewing is fine if you know what your doing and accurate consistent mixes. Sunaco / VP C85 takes the mix risk out and has additional additives for lubrication of fuel system. Fuel flex ethanol sensor recommended too. Ethanol will easily make as much power as C16, Q16, C23 etc.. but without putting lead into the atmosphere and lambda sensors.
> 
> Shell are meant to have a new race fuel unleaded which makes similar gains to C16
> 
> biobutanol should be in UK fuels next year


Check it out Ben!!! Butanol fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Biobutanol does not have the knock protection of Ethanol or Methanol infact it's close to standard gasoline


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## Russs (Oct 19, 2004)

There are quite a few high profile cars using a V Power/Methanol mix, with perhaps a splash of Tolouene.
75%pump 25%meth has worked very well for me with no issues over the last 3 or 4 years.
Performs better than the likes of 109, but not quite as well as VP Import 120.


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

I would just like to remind everyone that the amount of race fuel you use in a season is not vast.

Trying to save a few pounds by buying unproven, non guaranteed brands or mixing your own might just cost you an engine. 

Even if you spend an extra £1,000 per year on 'real' race fuel it will be a big saving over any damage caused by cutting corners. 

Before blowing anything up - try calculating how much fuel you are likely to use this year then ask me how much it will cost you from Trackstuff at club rates. If you honestly think the savings are worth it I might open up an engine rebuilding company.
:runaway:

.


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## R32GTR_T (Apr 8, 2012)

Ludders said:


> I would just like to remind everyone that the amount of race fuel you use in a season is not vast.
> 
> Trying to save a few pounds by buying unproven, non guaranteed brands or mixing your own might just cost you an engine.
> 
> ...


Do your trying to say its not worth it?


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

R32GTR_T said:


> Do your trying to say its not worth it?


Top quality race fuel = £80
Race engine = £20,000

I just think it is the same as fitting chinese components. Save a pound today spend a thousand tomorrow.

Yes I do not think it is worth it!


.


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

Ludders I can't see E85 on the track stuffsite. Do you guys stock this in 25 litres?...... Correction yes I can see it


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## R32GTR_T (Apr 8, 2012)

So what type of fuel is better then Vpower? Race fuel? 

Want to store some for when I have my car out and about


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

R32GTR_T said:


> So what type of fuel is better then Vpower? Race fuel?
> 
> Want to store some for when I have my car out and about


It depends on the car, the set up, the engine build and the power being produced/required.

Some cars need no more than VPower. PM me your phone number and I will have a chat with you as to what is best for your car.

Jeff


.


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

64btzlhy said:


> Ludders I can't see E85 on the track stuffsite. Do you guys stock this in 25 litres?...... Correction yes I can see it


Just remember there is a discount scheme in operation. 


.


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

Russs said:


> There are quite a few high profile cars using a V Power/Methanol mix, with perhaps a splash of Tolouene.
> 75%pump 25%meth has worked very well for me with no issues over the last 3 or 4 years.
> Performs better than the likes of 109, but not quite as well as VP Import 120.


Russ,

When mapping Fee's GTR can we have a map done for 25% Meth too?

Seems it is a bit easier to get hold of just now.


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

Im trying to find a source of E100 at moment as abroad it is dirt cheap!

Mix in abit of Vpower and you are laughing. Need a Flex fuel sensor though with ecu able to run it


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Ryan.g said:


> Im trying to find a source of E100 at moment as abroad it is dirt cheap!
> 
> Mix in abit of Vpower and you are laughing. Need a Flex fuel sensor though with ecu able to run it


Ryan,

I have found E99 which is in effect E100 plus a Denaturer to stop you drinking it.

I will be getting a quote tommorrow:thumbsup:


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

why you mixing it guys? top end lubrication?


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

johnhanton57 said:


> Ryan,
> 
> I have found E99 which is in effect E100 plus a Denaturer to stop you drinking it.
> 
> I will be getting a quote tommorrow:thumbsup:


Let me know mate, Might have to get the guys at SVM to put some 2200cc in now 

Got flex fuel sensors with me ready 

Honestly i would be well up for getting 250L of this ready for Marham. Its so much nicer on the engine and turbos


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

[email protected] M/S said:


> why you mixing it guys? top end lubrication?


Mainly because its better on the Fuel system and you do not need to go for huge setups.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

75% ethanol/25% super?

I agree the super will help the fuel systems and starting in cold weather , just a pain to mix it all the time.


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## Brains (Jul 6, 2010)

Redline does an addetitive for ethanol that lubricates the pumps and removes all the residue that it otherwise can leave behind. 
Or you could add a small amount of recin-based oil in it.


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

[email protected] M/S said:


> 75% ethanol/25% super?
> 
> I agree the super will help the fuel systems and starting in cold weather , just a pain to mix it all the time.


Its easy for us mate. Tune it on Vpower and then on Ethanol to the max % the fuel system will safely take. Syvecs then just blends the Fuel, Ignition, Boost, limits etc to take into account.

You can measure roughly with external gauge easily enough and then just throw it in and let Ecu do the rest. Syvecs Closed loop strategies are a god send and allow me to play angry birds more and i dont mean the Apple App


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Ryan.g said:


> Let me know mate, Might have to get the guys at SVM to put some 2200cc in now
> 
> Got flex fuel sensors with me ready
> 
> Honestly i would be well up for getting 250L of this ready for Marham. Its so much nicer on the engine and turbos


E99 is is a denatured Ethanol that is either (99% ethanol 1% methanol and a additive called BITTER+PLUS ( denatonium benzoate) at 10 micrograms per millilitre.

OR

99% Ethanol with Unleaded petrol with a Research Octane Number (RON) greater than 91 @ 1% vol.

Additives are just to stop you drinking it 

Ryan, I will need the flex fuel censors and hopefully the 2000 cc injectors will suffice until i add the NOS and then I may go with wet NOS to add extra fuel or 12 injectors.

I might look at adding 5% unleaded just to get the bloody motor to start. All my lines and special pump and injectors are good for Methanol or ethanol so lets get going and it will give us WINGS!


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

I forgot about that Ryan ,Syvecs is pretty awesome I agree, over 740 rear wheel hub bhp on a RB26 running on pump fuel last week using a S6. very good control of the the calibration maps and the boost/knock control is just out of the world.


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

johnhanton57 said:


> E99 is is a denatured Ethanol that is either (99% ethanol 1% methanol and a additive called BITTER+PLUS ( denatonium benzoate) at 10 micrograms per millilitre.
> 
> OR
> 
> ...


I would go with "99% Ethanol with Unleaded petrol with a Research Octane Number (RON) greater than 91 @ 1% vol"

If i was in your Situ and TBH i might do it anyway is go with the 12 Injector route. Pop your stock injectors back in stock location for perfect everyday driving and then move your 2000cc up higher in the manifold. This way you achieve much better atomisation and you also cool the charge 

Also with the power you will be making the 2000cc injectors on 85% ethanol plus will be cutting it fine.

A VR38 needs roughly about 5.7cc of 99ron Unleaded fuel per HP. Add ~30% to this for ~80% ethanol mixture and the ID2000 injectors will be flat out at around 1600hp.

Ryan


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Ryan.g said:


> I would go with "99% Ethanol with Unleaded petrol with a Research Octane Number (RON) greater than 91 @ 1% vol"
> 
> If i was in your Situ and TBH i might do it anyway is go with the 12 Injector route. Pop your stock injectors back in stock location for perfect everyday driving and then move your 2000cc up higher in the manifold. This way you achieve much better atomisation and you also cool the charge
> 
> ...


Ryan,

Looking at WET NOS and using two cross fire nozzles before each throttle body. I expect that we will get better homogenization going this route rather than direct injection as this has been tried before. We can sizer the fuel shots to suit the NOS shots prior to the throttle body...Much lower cost elegant solution IMO.

Conformation Quote for E99 1% Unleaded coming tommorow and looking to purchase 1000 litres:wavey:


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

Any update on this John,

Using 99.9% ethanol today with 10ppm bitrex and this is 100% my fuel of choice now for power.

A back to back run with c16 yesterday made 130whp more and 190c lower EGTs


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Ryan.g said:


> Any update on this John,
> 
> Using 99.9% ethanol today with 10ppm bitrex and this is 100% my fuel of choice now for power.
> 
> A back to back run with c16 yesterday made 130whp more and 190c lower EGTs


Have decided to stay on E85 race fuel for 2013 so will be tuning based on this and with the NOS should keep the EGT low as well


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## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

Ryan.g said:


> Any update on this John,
> 
> Using 99.9% ethanol today with 10ppm bitrex and this is 100% my fuel of choice now for power.
> 
> A back to back run with c16 yesterday made 130whp more and 190c lower EGTs


How about bringing a bucket of this stuff up in a couple of weeks time pal?


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

GTaaaaaarrrrrr! said:


> How about bringing a bucket of this stuff up in a couple of weeks time pal?


short time power V engine life :flame:


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Ryan.g said:


> Any update on this John,
> 
> Using 99.9% ethanol today with 10ppm bitrex and this is 100% my fuel of choice now for power.
> 
> A back to back run with c16 yesterday made 130whp more and 190c lower EGTs


I can get this fuel easily for around £2.30 per liter but is it SAFE to use or will it damage the engine over time???


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

you can get 99% ethanol that's good isn't that cheap thou.


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

Where can you get e98 or 99% ethanol ?


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