# RB30 Fullrace EFR7163 Max hp on pump gas 97



## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

Cant find much info about EFR7163 on here.
So i decide to make a thread.

Currently my car set up is full build OS Giken RB31 with Naprec head build , upgrade fuel parts, with FullRace twin EFR7163, with PFC D jetro.
Yesterday is my car tuning day, When first 1.2 bar it just get around 640whp. until 1.6 bar it just 694whp. I am abit dissapointed with the results. We try to get more boost, but seems like the MAP Sensor cant handle more boost than 1.6 bar, need to switch to bigger map sensor maybe 3bar or 5bar. We guess 2bar which is max boost for this turbo.

My Question is, How many whp can this turbo get ? Its run with RON 97.
Starting my target is around 800whp - 850whp. But now seems like a bit hard, as reach 1.6bar still just 694whp. Fullrace did tell me this kits can make 800whp-850whp. But i dont know what is the problem cause. Fuel supply is still very enough.

Is my ECU Too old for this ?

Thanks Guys.


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## diki (Oct 23, 2016)

look on the compressor map....perhaps the air flow of the turbo is not enough.....


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I can't see a 7163 getting to 800-850whp, Turbo is too small for that sort of power.
I have a 8374 on an RB30 and I've run out of Turbo at just under 700whp.
.....you are going to need a 9180 for that sort of power.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

diki said:


> look on the compressor map....perhaps the air flow of the turbo is not enough.....


Will double check it.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

Sub Boy said:


> I can't see a 7163 getting to 800-850whp, Turbo is too small for that sort of power.
> I have a 8374 on an RB30 and I've run out of Turbo at just under 700whp.
> .....you are going to need a 9180 for that sort of power.


Thanks for reply Mate,
I saw this turbo rate is 250-550hp on website. I thought twins 7163 can get at least 800whp. Now i getting regret because didnt go for single 9180 direct, waste my money, your 8374 is single turbo?


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Yes, Single Turbo.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

Sub Boy said:


> Yes, Single Turbo.


 twin 7163 can get how many whp on pump gas?


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Your first post seems to indicate a single 7163 in which case 690 is a crazy result 
(according to BW)

like sb i have a rb30 with a bigger 8734 and i cant make your target because the turbo maxes out.

possibly you mean twins in which case i can see that 690 could be dissapointing


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

RSVFOUR said:


> Your first post seems to indicate a single 7163 in which case 690 is a crazy result
> (according to BW)
> 
> like sb i have a rb30 with a bigger 8734 and i cant make your target because the turbo maxes out.
> ...


Sry, i forgot mention it is twins 7163, yes, i am disspointing with only make 690whp at 1.6bar. seems already buy the turbo kits. Cant do anything else. sad..


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

wrong post.


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## diki (Oct 23, 2016)

newbi, that turbo is rated at 500-550 crank horsepower
so it must be possible to get 850 whp.

i would look at your rest system. seems your air gets very hot with higher boost. 

i would optimize it and not change that setup so fast.

who mapped your car?

can you tell some data at 1,6 bar of boost?
ait temperature, exhaust temperature, ignition degrees over ignition table? your air fuel ratio? which fuel do you use?
wich camshaft do you have? how did you adjust it? do you have a hp curve?

your twin setup is good for 850 whp!


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

yes i think we all agree that 850 target should be possible with twins - 

clearly the complete package needs to be looked at including the map - maybe thats where to start


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## GTRNICK (Apr 29, 2005)

I think you should check every thing. Look for leaks. I run an 9180 on an rb30. Max I have had is 760whp on e100 at 1.6bar.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Hi Newbi,

As said you need to check every little thing.

I bought the smaller Full-Race 6258 twin set up for my R32 GT-R in 2015. My aim was crazy spool, not outright power.
It was fitted and after mapping ran around 680bhp at the fly, maybe 590 at the wheels?
Packaging was a bit of a nightmare, the kit is close to the front suspension turret on the 32.

But when the car went in for a couple of bits to the place that does my race cars they mentioned some improvements that could be made to the intake. Using the standard parts it was all removed and refitted, some gaskets changed that appeared to have a minor leak and when it went in for mapping again made 680bhp at the wheels !!

I only got it back with the tweaks done a few months ago.

So refitting and tweaking the manifolds and intake piping produced an increase of 90bhp.

The above figures are based on whp to bhp being 15% different.

I hope this helps.
Don't just sell the kit off.

Done right it works very well and the spool is brilliant.

I forgot to say, this is on an RB28.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

diki said:


> newbi, that turbo is rated at 500-550 crank horsepower
> so it must be possible to get 850 whp.
> 
> i would look at your rest system. seems your air gets very hot with higher boost.
> ...


Thanks Mate, 
Yes, Fullrace claim it will make 850whp . But i just dont know why the turbo on my car only come the boost till 5000 rpm. As everyone call it good response turbo , i think i have to check if there is any leak. i have the hks typre R supersize intercooler, 100mm thick and 700mm long. A local tuner that map my car, he is good in tuning, he did other car very well. He is shock to see this pair turbo come boost only start at 5000 rpm.
I dont have the temperature data, maybe i can try ask , I will post up the dyno sheet shortly. i have hks 267 camshaft, head is build by Naprec, no idea how did Naprec adjust it.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

First picture is 1.2 bar.









Second picture is 1.6 bar.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

RSVFOUR said:


> yes i think we all agree that 850 target should be possible with twins -
> 
> clearly the complete package needs to be looked at including the map - maybe thats where to start


Thanks, i will check everything again.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

GTRNICK said:


> I think you should check every thing. Look for leaks. I run an 9180 on an rb30. Max I have had is 760whp on e100 at 1.6bar.


What is the peak boost for your 9180 ?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

newbi said:


> Yes, Fullrace claim it will make 850whp . But i just dont know why the turbo on my car only come the boost till 5000 rpm.


That sounds very wrong.
Mine are a bit smaller, but they start to spool a bit over 2000rpm and are going like the clappers by around 3000-3200rpm.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

CT17 said:


> Hi Newbi,
> 
> As said you need to check every little thing.
> 
> ...



Hi CT17,

Thanks for sharing experience.
680 on wheel for the 6258 and RB28 is great! Is this on pump gas ? How many psi boost ? The boost start at what rpm ?
I think the next i should do now is like everyone here say to check whether is there any leak.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

CT17 said:


> That sounds very wrong.
> Mine are a bit smaller, but they start to spool a bit over 2000rpm and are going like the clappers by around 3000-3200rpm.


We still not yet found the problem. I am lost, suppose to not start from 5k rpm, right ?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

newbi said:


> Hi CT17,
> 
> Thanks for sharing experience.
> 680 on wheel for the 6258 and RB28 is great! Is this on pump gas ? How many psi boost ? The boost start at what rpm ?
> I think the next i should do now is like everyone here say to check whether is there any leak.


Yes pump gas, 99 RON.
1.7bar boost.

I don't have exact rpm boost but it's very early. The car is a rocket from around 3,200rpm.

It definitely sounds like you have some problem with your set up leading to massive lag and low power.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

newbi said:


> Sry, i forgot mention it is twins 7163, yes, i am disspointing with only make 690whp at 1.6bar. seems already buy the turbo kits. Cant do anything else. sad..


Power quote on their site is with E85 iirc.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

FRRACER said:


> Power quote on their site is with E85 iirc.


Yes, they have always done that.


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## gtrnewbb (Nov 12, 2016)

naprec cylinder head, what camshafts are you using?


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## diki (Oct 23, 2016)

newbi, seems for high leakage rates..not small.

i would check 
- timing belt position (hp graph looks ok for timing but i would double check)
- Wastegates closing good? Boost controller works right?
- Blow-off/Pop Off works well?


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

Based on R35 GT-R use of those turbos then 850HP (1000bhp) should be possible. I would suggest you have issues with leaks / tune / something else generally being wrong. So I would hold fire on changing the turbos and maybe look at a different tuner.


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## BigKriss (Sep 14, 2012)

diki said:


> newbi, that turbo is rated at 500-550 crank horsepower
> so it must be possible to get 850 whp.
> 
> i would look at your rest system. seems your air gets very hot with higher boost.
> ...


Agree totally here. Mapping, ign vs fuel, cam type, lsa`s , lca`s , tubing diameter, type of intercooler used,everything together will make or break the performance here.

Some of the biggest gains I made on my RB34 was a milder cam, correct lsa`s, and of course, lots of street dyno time with the Racelogic hooked up in my case..

What type of cams are you running specification wise? Rpm ?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

When will people stop chasing number and set about having a Engine that has drivability response and torque to match- ie with in your budget you have optimised everything you can. More than just buying a £10k pair of Turbos and hoping for 750hp or 1000hp. Do not neglect everything else on the car from engine control systems to sensors fuel system, mechanical components, chassis, brakes etc. Bit like a weight lifter building huge arms and chest and having no legs lol.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

In the interest of helping, he might have that power as the goal for his build. If done properly it will have the response and drivability.

If there is something wrong with the build surely it's better to be constructive and fix it than accept a lower power after spending a fortune to get the higher figure?

Bit like a few tweaks to mine liberating an extra 90bhp on mine just because of a leak and airflow issues.


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

FRRACER said:


> When will people stop chasing number and set about having a Engine that has drivability response and torque to match- ie with in your budget you have optimised everything you can. More than just buying a £10k pair of Turbos and hoping for 750hp or 1000hp. Do not neglect everything else on the car from engine control systems to sensors fuel system, mechanical components, chassis, brakes etc. Bit like a weight lifter building huge arms and chest and having no legs lol.



Why post this negative stuff (again) especially since , unless Ive missed something we dont actually
know his car spec 

Like CT I am of the opinion that the point of the forum is to help not just slag people off.


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

newbi said:


> Cant find much info about EFR7163 on here.
> So i decide to make a thread.
> 
> Currently my car set up is full build OS Giken RB31 with Naprec head build , upgrade fuel parts, with FullRace twin EFR7163, with PFC D jetro.
> ...


I don't know much about the PowerFC D-Jetro tbh, it's a REALLY old ECU but if you can upgrade MAP sensor that wouldn't be too bad.

Those turbos can 100% make much more power than you are currently making from them, on the right setup. It's hard to know what is holding you back - if there is something in the setup which needs optimising, if your cams are big enough (what are you running?), if the intercooler & exhaust are good enough, your MAP sensor is obviously a limiting factor.

What size cams etc do you have? It does seem laggier than I would have expected, as well.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

gtrnewbb said:


> naprec cylinder head, what camshafts are you using?


I am using HKS 272.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

gtr mart said:


> Based on R35 GT-R use of those turbos then 850HP (1000bhp) should be possible. I would suggest you have issues with leaks / tune / something else generally being wrong. So I would hold fire on changing the turbos and maybe look at a different tuner.


Thanks mate, we start checking now. Yes, i will change my mind dont sell it .


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

diki said:


> newbi, seems for high leakage rates..not small.
> 
> i would check
> - timing belt position (hp graph looks ok for timing but i would double check)
> ...


Still checking now.
The actuator need to be upgrade, its cant handle more than 1.6 bar.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

FRRACER said:


> When will people stop chasing number and set about having a Engine that has drivability response and torque to match- ie with in your budget you have optimised everything you can. More than just buying a £10k pair of Turbos and hoping for 750hp or 1000hp. Do not neglect everything else on the car from engine control systems to sensors fuel system, mechanical components, chassis, brakes etc. Bit like a weight lifter building huge arms and chest and having no legs lol.


Noted, thanks for sharing.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

RSVFOUR said:


> Why post this negative stuff (again) especially since , unless Ive missed something we dont actually
> know his car spec
> 
> Like CT I am of the opinion that the point of the forum is to help not just slag people off.


No worry. i am ok.:chuckle:


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

Lith said:


> I don't know much about the PowerFC D-Jetro tbh, it's a REALLY old ECU but if you can upgrade MAP sensor that wouldn't be too bad.
> 
> Those turbos can 100% make much more power than you are currently making from them, on the right setup. It's hard to know what is holding you back - if there is something in the setup which needs optimising, if your cams are big enough (what are you running?), if the intercooler & exhaust are good enough, your MAP sensor is obviously a limiting factor.
> 
> What size cams etc do you have? It does seem laggier than I would have expected, as well.


Yes, its really OLD ECu. haha! We thinking to switch to Link G4+ with map sensor. But still not decide yet. I am using 272 cams.


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## newbi (Sep 16, 2009)

CT17 said:


> Yes pump gas, 99 RON.
> 1.7bar boost.
> 
> I don't have exact rpm boost but it's very early. The car is a rocket from around 3,200rpm.
> ...


What is the highest boost can EFR turbo get ?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Just because you have turbos what can run 850whp doesn't mean they will make it on a restrictive engine.

Hks 272 cams are to small what lift are they? 8.7?


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

CT17 said:


> Hi Newbi,
> 
> As said you need to check every little thing.
> 
> ...




Why you still use rk tuning baffles me, coming from the so called tuning expert that's terrible after spending 7k on a turbo kit

Who are you using for your mapping now you using redline or Tdi? I see the ex32 race car was mapped at Tdi


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> Why you still use rk tuning baffles me, coming from the so called tuning expert that's terrible after spending 7k on a turbo kit
> 
> Who are you using for your mapping now you using redline or Tdi? I see the ex32 race car was mapped at Tdi


With all due respect, you don't know the full story and I have no intention of getting into a slagging match regarding businesses on an open forum.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

CT17 said:


> With all due respect, you don't know the full story and I have no intention of getting into a slagging match regarding businesses on an open forum.



That's fair enough Richard, Im not asking you to. 

Was it mapped on the same dyno or a diffrent one? Must spool abit better aswell with no leaks?

So in the end the gains are quite impressive compared to the old billet -5 set up? Unless Ron fitted that terrible aswell?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> That's fair enough Richard, Im not asking you to.
> 
> Was it mapped on the same dyno or a diffrent one? Must spool abit better aswell with no leaks?
> 
> So in the end the gains are quite impressive compared to the old billet -5 set up? Unless Ron fitted that terrible aswell?


The old -5 set up was good. I was pleased with it. The twin EFR kit was done to see how much it could be improved. An expensive exercise maybe, but now it's been tweaked (pipes shorted so they give smoother flow and a few other things so they don't pop off at 1.7bar) there is a clear difference.
From a cost perspective I'm not really sure it's worth the cost if you have a good -5 set up. But maybe if you want mad power the bigger kits make more sense.
You managed to mention RK again, but remember they have a lot of experience with -5, my EFR was the first in the UK I believe and it was only airflow tweaks.

I use Tdi to do my mapping.
They do a good job IMO, I'm happy with the results.

The car comes back right and works.
No cold starting issues, no picking the car up and wondering if I'm going to get to a petrol station before I run out of fuel as needle at hte bottom and light on.
No poor fuel economy on partial throttle.
All of which I've had using another company.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

CT17 said:


> The old -5 set up was good. I was pleased with it. The twin EFR kit was done to see how much it could be improved. An expensive exercise maybe, but now it's been tweaked (pipes shorted so they give smoother flow and a few other things so they don't pop off at 1.7bar) there is a clear difference.
> From a cost perspective I'm not really sure it's worth the cost if you have a good -5 set up. But maybe if you want mad power the bigger kits make more sense.
> You managed to mention RK again, but remember they have a lot of experience with -5, my EFR was the first in the UK I believe and it was only airflow tweaks.
> 
> ...



When a company is a specialist and names there's self a tuner there shouldn't be no excuses. They should no what's right and what's wrong. Never mind it's up to you who you spend your money with. 

Yh Tdi are pretty good, shame Sam left he was allways the reason I wanted to use Tdi for mapping. 

I'd imagine tho the gains are not quite as big as you think because hub hp and dynodynamics whp is not really comparable imo. Does it feel like it has a lot more power? Boost pipes popping off is a total pita, when I see your car after the kit was just fitted the boost pipe on the front turbo was hard up against the inner wing have jdr fixed that issue to?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> When a company is a specialist and names there's self a tuner there shouldn't be no excuses. They should no what's right and what's wrong. Never mind it's up to you who you spend your money with.
> 
> Yh Tdi are pretty good, shame Sam left he was allways the reason I wanted to use Tdi for mapping.
> 
> I'd imagine tho the gains are not quite as big as you think because hub hp and dynodynamics whp is not really comparable imo. Does it feel like it has a lot more power? Boost pipes popping off is a total pita, when I see your car after the kit was just fitted the boost pipe on the front turbo was hard up against the inner wing have jdr fixed that issue to?



Give it up with RK.

If you can't discuss something without sticking the boot in due to your personal grievance in every post the easiest way is just not to respond.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

CT17 said:


> Give it up with RK.
> 
> If you can't discuss something without sticking the boot in due to your personal grievance in every post the easiest way is just not to respond.



I can say what ever I like Richard, I was only commenting on your post about the gains you've had from a decent tuner refitting your turbo kit.

The issues you have had I can't beleive your so keen to stick up for him, suppose there's allways some.


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## Yvo (Dec 24, 2015)

Hi,
can you post some pictures from your turbokit fittet in the car please

thanks
Yvo


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## Chad260rs (Aug 29, 2020)

Are the turbos being maxed out early? With a .85 a/r advertised on the kit, granted there’s 2 turbos...


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