# RB30/RB26 Base tune done!



## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Hi guy's today I finally got my Rb30/26 base tuned. It had been run in for around 700miles so was more than ready! As I had some fluffy running issues during the run in period I decided to get a base tune done with the stock pump and AFM's to make sure it was all running clean prior to swapping AFM's and more than likely the pump for my future plans. After some minor tweaks richen up the map off boost and load the running issues were all pretty sorted so we went for a couple of power runs starting at 6psi wastegate boost to give the car some initial runs up to 6500rpm. Once happy with that the boost was increase to 0.8bar and some further tweaks were made. At this point the Stock MAF's were pretty much maxed out so I called it a day but here is what I ended up with so far.










I think the rpm scale is wrong so ignore that. It was revving just short of 6500rpm. The power shown is flywheel power and it equated to 324bhp at the rear wheels I was hoping for a touch more but then I had planned to run it up to 6750rpm initially then I got a bit nervous!

The engine is running HKS step1 cams with adjustable pullies so I am hoping to dial the power ban back a touch to make better use of the cams when I go for the final tune. The 660cc sard injectors are happily run at about 60% duty at the moment. Whether or not I need to put a slightly larger pump in remains to be seen.. Anyone have any clues as to how much wheel power a stock gtr pump can hold on an RB30?
Knock levels are max 28 at the moment but then boost is still relatively low. We tried to fiddle with the ignition timing a bit but it made no significant gains at the current boost so we left it as it was .
I plan to drive it as is for a couple of weeks and make sure I am happy with it all then I will put on my larger MAF's and pump if need be and go back for a final tune taking the rpm up to 6750 limit. Maybe a little higher. I am hoping I can get into mid 500's flywheel power but not sure I will get there yet? My tuner on the other hand seems pretty confident!

If anyone has any thoughts on my printout let me know. Wouldn't mind comparing with what other people have made on the same boost and similar setup?


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

is that on stock turbos?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Am I reading right? You did 700 miles with no checks on the tune of a new engine, then went in for a "base tune" and are now going to do more miles before its tuned properly?


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Thats how I read it too Rob


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Am I reading right? You did 700 miles with no checks on the tune of a new engine, then went in for a "base tune" and are now going to do more miles before its tuned properly?


I presume he means that he was starting to map the engine to make power hence he is saying they mapped it upto 0.8 bar? 

However, i know what you and Glen are thinking and it does read that way. 

I take it a 'map' was done for your running in?


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

it reads to me as though it was run in, running lean off boost, fluffy running issues cured and richened up off boost and on load all done after 700 miles of running in !


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Sorry guy's,
To clear up the confusion. It had a base tune done for running on on wastegate pressure 6psi.. The running fluffy was not lean on the AFR's it just appears to like quite a lot of fuel off load and boost? And I generally tried not to drive it in these areas of the map. plenty of varied load driving.
Mattysupra read it pretty spot on but I can see the confusion reading it back now! Sorry!
The very initial 50 miles were on the dyno for the base tune to get it on some good load straight away to bed the rings in.

It is on a single turbo conversion or more info.


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Hiya Lee 

Really nice to see you're up and running!

Mine is due to be started this Saturday, everything's done basically just waiting for a few hoses to be fitted.

It's running djetro, 850cc sards, bosch 044 fed by intank pump, t04r turbo.

So what do you reckon for start-up and running-in procedure?

So I need a running-in map to done by the tuner?


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Will be interesting to see how it goes when you turn the boost up, HX40 definitely fairly laggy with the 19cm housing but should be interesting to see how it goes in the top end


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Hi There, The lag on that run looks worse as the boost controller was not set-up right and taking longer to build the boost. I had asked them to set it up like that to be fair as on my old RX7 I found the boost came in so hard with the same turbo it was an animal to drive! I have since had a fiddle and it kicks in a lot better now. Much less laggy. Ideally I would have gone for a 16cm housing with the rpm limit I am confined to but then that's where I was hoping the natural torque of the RB30 would come in.


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Lee, just had mine tuned tonight for running in.

Engine was limited to 6000rpm...basically done less than 10 miles since started.

Made 365awhp at 5900rpm on 0.85bar boost - dynojet 4-wheel dyno. 

Peak torque 446Nm. 

Full boost around 3800-4000rpm (journal bearing t04r, 1.06 twin scroll exhaust housing)

I'll post some graphs from my tuner later on....


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Hi there.. Glad to see you up and running also!
365bhp at the hubs at 5900rpm? That is pretty damn impressive I would say!
What is the rest of the setup you have cams and bottom end wise? Have you dialled your cams in to suit the lower rpm? As yet mine for a better word are just dumped in on the 0deg pulley markings. Really I should have set them first but then you are only going to fiddle with them on the dyno anyway. I would hope I could dial my cams back to get more power lower down the rev range.

very brave of you on a 10 mile old engine! I couldn't bring myself to do that. Everyone has their own preferred route though I guess. Definitely interested to see some graphs and know more on your spec.

Cheers
Lee


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Hiya Lee,

Head is fully ported and polished, enlarged exhaust ports, enlarged valve seats etc.

Cams are HKS - not sure exactly what, it has rb2 engraved on them. Maybe higher lift as the head has been cut to clear the lobes.

Bottom end is just rb30 with spool rods and CP forgies (bought the spool rebuild kit except headgasket).... bought a tomei 1.5mm 87mm headgasket during rhdjapan sale.

Running a intank pump into a bosch 044 underneath the car, 850cc sard injectors. Powerfc djetro.

Anyway will do a short writeup in the build section soon. I'll get the plots from my tuner either today or tomorrow. 

Plan to buy another rb30 block, over here they're quite a cheap, only 250pounds for a complete block.

It's the tuner's first time with a rb30,he says power comes on about 1000rpm sooner than a similar rb26!


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Oh yeah, about the breaking in, was just following RIPS way and this guy's:
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

Used mineral oil, tuner went easy at first, a few runs up to 3000rpm, then slowly at 4000rpm then 5000rpm then 6000 rev limit. Some engine braking too.
All the while he was mapping.

Oil change next, more mineral oil and then I'm taking it out for runs on the road.

The tuner kept a close eye on everything esp. oil pressure,water temp, oil temp. Engine was suprisingly cold, oil temp only in the 70-80C range. Still the exhaust tip melted my rear bumper, mustve been the heatwrapped downpipe. Also the dyno had huge fans all round.

Also he had the earpieces on to listen to any untoward noises, knock or anything. 

Hope it goes well for us over the running in period :thumbsup:


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Cool.. You have gone to town on the head then.. Mine is stock other than the cams. (step1 HKS) Power definitely comes in sooner on the RB30 but then you are working with a bigger CC as well so I guess the power will be slightly proportional in that way too. My tuner is also first time on the RB30 so I think he is erring on the side of caution at the moment. Mainly by me keep telling him to!

I notice my runs cool too. Are you running an oil cooler? I am and oil just gets into the 70's after a good drive!

I am tempted by another block! But I have too much on at the moment. And the dollar exchange rate is shocking! That plus shipping!

I sort of followed that link you posted but then did 500miles after an initial similar bed in on the dyno with a very basic map and only up to around 4000-4500rpm.

Keep me posted with progress as I will with mine!


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Mowales... Are you stalking me or just thread count building?!

Flattered if I have stalker but I am spoken for!!


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Here's mine...sorry for the long wait :nervous::nervous::nervous:










Power is at 4 wheels.

Rev limit set at 6000rpm.

0.8bar.

T04R 1.06 AR rear housing, rb26 head ported & polished, HKS cams, rb30 block, CP 86.5mm forged pistons, Spool forged rods, Tomei 1.5mm headgasket.


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

That is pretty good! I just fund out mine is only running 5 and a half cylinders! I am overjoyed! Looking into at the moment so watch this space.

Lee


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Okay.. So after finally doing a full leak down test I pinpointed the issue to an inlet valve. Having taken the head off it was clear to see that one valve had not seated properly and had been leaking. How I missed that when I originally lapped them in I don't know and I am kicking myself for it.. but no real damage done at the end of the day.. Just a bit of a PITA! Hopefully I will get it all up and running by end of next week. Then it's back for tuning! This time we can have a proper go!
I am thinking 7000rpm limit and 1.2bar boost? I know Rob has run much higher on stock bottom ends but I don't want any further issues and do drive it hard on occasion!
What do you reckon Rob.. If you read this!?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

7000 and 1.2 should be no issue at all for it.


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Thanks for the post Rob.. I will see how I get on from there.. If it makes what I am hoping for then all good.. I don't want to push it for no reason.

Will probably be a couple of weeks before it is fully mapped yet as I need to fit my new fuel pump as well which I am not looking forward too! 

Cheers
Lee


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Finally.. Car is back up and running and went back to the dyno today to get a new base setting done at 0.8 bar and fit my Q45 MAF's before I change the fuel pump..
Well I found the power I was missing before I think! I must say I am stoked with the results this time on a quite a moderate tune.


















A very nice 370bhp at the rear wheels! Rev limit currently set to 6750rpm but we were not quite using it all as I was also playing with the cam timing. Hence the quite rich running at present. Ran out of time at the end of the day to tweak the fuelling but certainly seems to be going in the right direction now!
got a nice lump of torque to go with it too!

Estimated flywheel power and torque graph together.









Now I just need to drive it around a bit in the week and see if the Q45's behave which so far other than a little tendency to try and cut out when you let the revs drop suddenly it seems to be very smooth! If anything smoother than it was with the stock MAF's on!! Assuming no more issues like last time plan is to fit the fuel pump next week and then go back for some more dyno time and a final tune the week after! Fingers crossed!


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## rockabilly (Oct 15, 2003)

looking good matee, its all coming together now finally..


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Haa! Yeah.. Been a bit of a while getting it there but fingers crossed! Won't say any more until the final tune is done! Hopefully I can then relax and enjoy!
Mainly it has taken me so long as I just have not had enough time which gets frustrating. One day a week and the odd evening after work can be a bit hard going! But hey!

Really hoping it's all worth it and I reach my goal!


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

Why have you taken so long to tune it and taking it thru such an elaborate running in process?


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Hi there,
Hours in days. There is just not enough of them!
Not so much that I have had an elaborate run in!! Just a few ups and downs and no where near enough time to get on and do it so it seems that way! I could probably have done my last 8 weeks work in about 1 week if I didn't have a day job!
The car has still only covered just over 1000miles! LOL!


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I think what rb30r34 is getting at is its best to have the final tune sorted and be doing full power/boost runs by around the 150-200 mile mark and doing 500-1000 miles with anything less than a perfect map at low to medium power/rpm can potentially cause all sorts of problems.

Rob


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

^Exactly what I was getting at.


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Okay.. I am surprised at full power and boost runs so soon.. But do agree I have more miles than I would want before a full tune. It has just been apart again and it was all in good health. I now just need to get on and get it finished before driving it much more!


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## AlexH (Aug 17, 2008)

leeroy, id personally look into the tunning again mate, mine is just on a fresh engine and have a 6k rev limit and it makes 500whp on the MGT racing dyno.
it is a forged engine, ported head with new valves and tomie type b cams, a GT4094r turbo and a few other mods, its running a haltech sport 200 ecu and im getting 1 bar of boost (wastegate pressure)
id have thought a rb30 would be putting out a bit more than that, unless you are deliberatly running in gently?
also what single are you running?
another q, ive been having a boost creep just now, hence the 6k limit. what size wastegate are you running?


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Lee... your results almost mirror mine! :wavey:

I think our tune mustve been set up quite conservative compared to AlexH who is getting 500whp with a 6k rpm limit.

I think I'm gonna follow RIPS advice and now go for the final tune. As it is, I've done some 1700kms of driving (a lot of it hard on the 0.8 boost) and I'm thinking there's no point doing further mileage as the piston rings must have bedded by now.


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

I have to say Godzirra.. When I had my latest run and then saw your old graph you posted I thought just the same! I know my map is on the conservative side also but 500bhp at the wheels? That sounds like a lot for only 1 bar?? I was really please with 370 at the wheels! That is only 0.8bar but they doesn't make up for 130bhp! I would guess around 450 at the wheels if I was lucky at 1 bar and a keen map? Hey.. Time will tell. As long as I reach my own personal goal with a drivable reliable car I will be happy!
Will be very interested to hear how yours comes on Alex.. Sounds like it will be immense! Are you running fairly high compression? By the way I am running a 60mm wastegate.. So far boost seems to hold pretty nice.. On the spring only it was perfect. Will see how it goes when I turn it up a bit!

I have to say I compared my RB30 graph to my old RB26 and it is comparible in that it makes roughly the same percent more power as the CC difference but also 1000rpm sooner?


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## AlexH (Aug 17, 2008)

leeroy, 

im not 100% on the comp etc as MGT built the engine and i just droped my car off to them and asked them to make it go, really go! lol (those were my actual words beleive it or not) anyway as i say im not 100% on the spec and MGT have asked me not to divulge it too much so i just let folks know that it is forged internals, mark and garth both recon its gonna be a really fast car indeed, its just a case of getting the boost creep sorted out and a few other small issues that have croped up (nowt to do with MGT's work though) then garth can start to really lean on it. 
i have a dyno graph somewhere so ill take a picture of it and post it up, you may make more sence of it than i can..........lol
anyway im pretty sure your car will be a cracker and as you say it may just be a bit conservative on the mapp, as i say i asked garth to make it really go so he may have had that in mind.
ill go look for that graph and let you see, but im sure if mr biggers is reading this then he will be able to comment a bit further for me

Alex


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Cool.. Look forward to seeing it.. It is good reading about other builds.. I am sure the creep can be sorted easy enough. Bigger gate I guess? Possibly a manifold issue but I imagine that is unlikely!? What are you running.. a custom one? Is your wastegate vented to Atmosphere? If not that might help??

Lee


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## AlexH (Aug 17, 2008)

hey lee, the wastegate is a tial 44mm item (i got it with the turbo when i bought it) but it turns out it's too wee, so im swaping it out for a 60mm item, once that is done i need to sort out a transmition leak and get a external map sensor as the inboard one only reads 1.5 bar of boost and im intending running more than that.
the wastegate runs out a screemer just now and i want to keep it that way (i like the noise they make) 
so once this lot is sorted and i get some redline shockproof in the box then i can start to lean on it a bit more, i am really happy with the way the car is turning out and i know it is going to be seriously fast as mark biggers runs the exact same turbo on his race car and that thing flies, it smoked norris desighns evo in the AAA saloons series and that is one hell of a quick evo. mine wont be that fast though as after all it is a road car not going to track it.
lee, ill keep a eye on your build and i hope it all works out well lad

Alex


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm running a 60mm HKS GT wastegate...bought the whole kit off Lightspeed here but had the turbo rebuilt.

I am thinking of final tune sort of soonish...but planning to upgrade the oilpump with a Reimax gearkit (only 250 quid) and fit another Bosch 044 plus a surge tank.

I've got forged pistons and rods with a 1.5mm headgasket so hope to run quite big boost - maybe 1.2 bar at low setting and 1.5 or 1.6 bar at high setting.

Still the beauty of rb30s is that they don't need high revs...plan to keep max revs at 7200rpm like you.


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

7200rpm on a forged bottom end will last a lifetime I should think! but there is no point revving engines for no good reason.

Will be interested to see how we all get on in the next few weeks. Keep me posted and I will do likewise!

Lee


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## leeroy_25 (Dec 19, 2006)

Okay guy's.. Next tune has been done. As ever pushed for tie at the tuners which was a shame as it could do with a bit more of a tickle. But I need to change a few bits as well.

So the tuner leaned out the map a bit at the top end and altered some of the MAF settings to try and cure the stalling issue. It definitely seems better now. Not perfect but better for sure. However I found out my Stock oil breather system has both one way valves leaking! So even though it's a closed system I expect that won't be helping anything, especially when it's on boost!
We stepped it up to 1.0bar and then 1.1bar and finally 1.2bar and the results are as follows:

























SO just under 440bhp at the rear wheels and that was 6500rpm. We opend up the rev limit a touch and you can see it starts to fall off the power after. Which is possibly when the boost is tailing back off to 1.1bar at the top end? but in any case this is where I wanted it to make power as the low down power is what you can really use! I must say I was hoping to hit just over 450bhp to be close on 550bhp flywheel power. Maybe with some tweaks it can get there?

You can notice strangely the two runs over laid were done one after the other with a minor top end tweak on the fuel but yet the compete AFR map has jumped up?? Anyone got any ideas what could cause this? I was wondering fuel pump as I have no gauge on it to check with? But then I would have thought that would only really effect the very top end and the injector duty would go up which it didn't? Also it makes pretty much the same power?!

Could it be MAF related again, plugs or coils? Some idea on that would help please if anyone has a thought! I am running the stock FPR for info. But was told ages ago that should be fine for what I am aiming at? 

Boost wise I am going to check the settings on my boost controller and also put a bit of pre-tension on the wastegate spring to try and hold it better up top. 

Anyway.. Let me know your general thoughts! I am happy but not ecstatic!

Cheers
Lee


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