# Black smoke theory.



## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

Any of us that run Stage 4 are well aware of the issues where the car dumps a cloud of grey/ black smoke as you go WOT. This was discussed on the MLR thread started by Harper. Clive W seems to think it is due to injector design not the injector end angle, he has said the standard OEM GTR injectors don't spray in a cone shape but spray distinct V patterns, the injectors which are put in modified cars spray a cone pattern which then hits the divider throat and forms droplets instead of atomising. Anybody like to comment?


----------



## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

I doubt it, when i had ecutek i had a fair bit of black smoke, i changed to a Syvecs and now dont even get a hint of black smoke.


----------



## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

JamieP said:


> I doubt it, when i had ecutek i had a fair bit of black smoke, i changed to a Syvecs and now dont even get a hint of black smoke.


I can counter that Jamie. I'm also on Syvecs now but have black smoke under load.


----------



## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Last I heard it was caused by the injection end angle not being considered by either EcuTek or Cobb. Then EcuTek cracked it, and Cobb are still trying to work it out. It does look quite worrying if you don't know what's going on in there.


----------



## Tweaked (Mar 4, 2012)

I had a lot of smoke at one time but I have been sending datalogs to Ben to adjust the map and seems so much better than before, so in my opinion and what I have seen seems to be down to the map?


----------



## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

GTaaaaaarrrrrr! said:


> I can counter that Jamie. I'm also on Syvecs now but have black smoke under load.


Strange, ive seen so many GTR's with it, i dont get a drop since going Syvecs and just put it down to the ecu change, maybe i was just lucky.


----------



## knight-racer (Oct 14, 2003)

Jamie, cant believe how clear your exhaust is! its like stock! Mine used to throw out an embarassing amount of black smoke... but after some ASNU injectors and a few map revisions on the Cobb, it's better... but still not completely avoidable


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Is it really fixed by Ecutek now then?

That was one of the things that put me off of going stage 4 again.


----------



## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

CT17 said:


> Is it really fixed by Ecutek now then?
> 
> That was one of the things that put me off of going stage 4 again.


Well, i'm running the new softwear and its hard to see what comes out the exhaust on full chat, I like to keep my eyes looking forward. 

But impressions are that its not eradicated but greatly reduced.


----------



## Booooh (Sep 29, 2008)

Isn't it just a rich mixture for cooling purposes? That's what they always told me in the EVO scene, had a VII that smoked a lot, like my GT-R does now also ...

Ben


----------



## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Booooh said:


> Isn't it just a rich mixture for cooling purposes? That's what they always told me in the EVO scene, had a VII that smoked a lot, like my GT-R does now also ...
> 
> Ben


Yep....better a bit rich and smokey than clean and lean:thumbsup:

Mine was a bad smoker but much improved with some map tweaks.


----------



## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

I like the smoke  it's like a James Bond smoke screen....


----------



## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

My Stage 1 smokes like buggery when I give it socks. If I have the window down when I do it, the interior if the car stinks of smoke. Christ knows what it must look like from behind - looking through the rear view mirror it looks like the F1 cars from the 80's when the engine/turbo used to blow.


----------



## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

good reading

Asnu injectors - Engine - GT-R Life


----------



## B'have (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm more concerned of killing the lambda sensors or worse still bore wash. Fingers crossed the Ecutek updates will sort it.


----------



## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Lambda sensor failure is quite common on 35's. gtrlife has loads of threads on it and done one myself.


----------



## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

My stage 1 did smoke, but the recent update has made a massive difference  I always felt like sticking a sticker on the rear screen like the TDI massive 'No smoke, no poke!!!' Lol.


----------



## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

saucyboy said:


> My stage 1 did smoke, but the recent update has made a massive difference  I always felt like sticking a sticker on the rear screen like the TDI massive 'No smoke, no poke!!!' Lol.


Did you get the update done by Sly mate?


----------



## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Yeah mate, whilst he was doing my brakes a couple of weeks a go ; ) car even feels more responsive


----------



## Impossible (May 11, 2011)

Ecutek has improved smoke but not removed it. I can say I get less now but its defo not gone.


----------



## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Smoke can also be caused by too much intake cam advance.


----------



## pulsarboby (Nov 3, 2012)

I have the same thing with stage 4 cobb on wot

as said its better too rich than too lean with possibility of detting. also the fuel is acting as a cylinder coolant which is obviously a good thing, but at what point does overfuelling become dangerous with the possibility of borewash / spun bearings etc!!!

I drop the oil at regular intervals on mine as soon as it starts to smell fuelly as this is the point when I think it could become a hazard to bottom end especially when oil temps are up on a track etc as the oil will be thinned and viscosity could break down leading to possible bearing failiure

not trying to scaremonger people but surely more frequent oil changes are the answer especially if you use your vehicle on track.
im going to find out if a map tweak will help though with some fuelling being taken out at wot (which is the only time it seems to do it.


----------



## Verinder1984 (May 8, 2011)

guys embrace it! 

I used to find it embarrassing..... until my bro-inlaw was following me one day. He said my car is like a magic trick..... soon as I boot it you get :
-a puff of smoke
-loads of sound
-then when he drove through the smoke I disappeared!


----------



## andrew186 (May 3, 2010)

^^ what he said

Adds to the drama and as long as there is no ill effect to the car I'm happy to live with it!

Latest custom tune by Ben cut down the smoking a lot but its still there


----------



## Peter R35 Gt-R (Jun 13, 2011)

:flame::smokin::wavey:


----------



## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

How many of the modified cars are running ASNU injectors and still getting lots of smoke?


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

with the right tuner black smoke is no issues. its not the injectors.


----------



## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Black smoke is something we have been reducing on our Stage 4 cars for some time now and we can get it to a point where you can't really see anything from the exhaust but it won't be removed completely. We developed the ASNU injectors on the GTR originally so they have always been our preferred injector but I don't think this is the whole story. 

The maps Ecutek have given us make a big difference but it still takes fine tuning on each car, it's the same on Syvecs and I would imagine Cobb as well. Most tuners will set the car up quite rich for safety and with the sheer amount of exhaust gas a high power GTR expels it will always have some un-burnt fuel. Even a tiny % number will equate to a reasonable quantity under high load.

We have just released the latest Ecutek Version 3 software so if any customers have a soot problem we can look at it at the same time as the update.

Feel free to call with any questions 

Regards

Iain


----------



## Protegimus (Aug 31, 2011)

Looking forward to Friday and the update!

Protegimus


----------



## Tigerruss (Sep 5, 2008)

Thanks Iain. Good to hear new software has been released. Will look forward to latest version and reduction in soot with a little tweaking magic from you, when I'm in for my service next week.


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

> How is it that so many of people can be convinced that the injector is the problem? There are many things that go into achieving the same clean/quick crank to run strategy the factory tuning provided. The first start of the day is in a dry port and the prime pulse(to wet the port) and the cranking injector pulsewidth must be adjusted to get things correct. I've read comments on here from black smoke to fuel mileage on this board all pointing at the ID1000. I've tuned countless amounts of ID1000 injectors, it's a great nozzle the delivers great consistency over the 1000cc injectors of yesterday.
> 
> As far as the injector itself it's a fairly "dumb" device. The ECU requests a pulsewidth or injection time and the injector is supplied a ground for that amount of time and fuel passes through it. If that injection time isn't correct you get unhappy customers and the last thing a "tuner" is going to say is he just can't make it any better. It's a ego driven game guys, mix that up with one line having more margin than others and you get vendors/tuners pushing misinformation around to make money. In regards to the fuel system itself it may not be a horrible idea to look at how the tank is vented and how much heat you're making moving all the fuel in a circle over and over. It's very possible to drive a fuel system into "vapor lock" when you're pumping 800 lbs/hr of fuel around. This can cause that long cranking period after the vehicle sits hot for 10-20 minutes after a long drive.
> 
> ...


Here is a quote i found. thought it was pretty spot on


----------



## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Interesting read mate. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Interesting read, but posted by a new GTR Life user with 5 posts so difficult to know if he's a an independent party or ID employee...


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

really? honestly its all tuning. get a tune by someone that knows how. to get rid of the soot.


----------



## Taven888 (Mar 30, 2011)

As above , its all in the map. Rushed map be the course. And dyno mapping. Get the lamba in, get the laptop, get ya sen out on the road.


----------

