# About time.



## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

After many many weeks and constantly having to buy extra parts for this remap, it gets done tomorrow and nothing will get in it's way.

2 boost settings. 

1.2bar for track and normal use. 

1.4bar for drag only. 

I should see 500+hp on the 1.2bar but I've no idea what the 1.4 will give. Not really bothered as long as it hit the 500 Mark. Fly wheel only here. 

For the 1.4 setting, is it possible to have it totally set up for drag without effecting the 1.2 setting for normal use? I know my mapper can answer these questions but I don't like paying for something with questions still to ask. Plus extreme motor sport specialise in evos and gtst models.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Hoohoo this is exciting. Car is getting done as I type. Update and pics soon.


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## samgtr (Aug 4, 2010)

looking forward to the results.

Good luck


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Videos


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Nice one...

Post up some vids if you can/want. Always good to see folks cars near the end of a project.

TT


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## herman (Apr 1, 2007)

its great wene your cars getting mapped isnt it:clap:.hope its problem free and you get good results at the end.:thumbsup:


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Me too. Fingers crossed. Its having to stay all day and night as they want to do a cold start on it when they are done. They said they like to be 100% confident in the car before they hand it over. 
So no vids but they did promis to take plenty pics. Ill not sleep tonight.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Have they got it all day then??

Shall we have a pound on the BHP figure?

My guess is 460 atf if all is running right


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Yeah they have it all day. It's getting bits fitted, tightened etc first. 

460 god I hope I get more than that. 480 would be fine, 500 would be perfect. Ever the optimist though. 

Ok then £5 to whomever guesses correctly via pay pal.


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## R4VENS (Jan 1, 2009)

482bhp!


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Im sure if it were 460 at the end of it you'll be surprised at how quick that actually is - I know I was with 554 (although I'm told on other rollers it would have hit 600) but the quarter is where I'll find out


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Problems already. Their laptop isn't reading the ecu. Something to do with the wiring harness for the old hks f cons ecu maybe. There going to call abbey. 
The car starts with the apexi ecu so the ecu works. He has the latest software as well so it's not that. 
When he connects to the ecu he's getting an error code so he's looking into that first. Update soon. :nervous:


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## andyR43 (Jun 13, 2010)

466bhp.


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

473bhp


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Whats your spec? And which boost we guessing for? 1.2 or 1.4?


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## cossie0_4 (Dec 25, 2008)

503bhp is my guess m8


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

1.4bar as thats the drag one.
Looks likely now that I won't get the car back until thursday. The software he has is although the latest version, might not be correct for the gtr. He mostly does gtst's.
He has emailed somebody from new zealand that is an expert on apex ecu remapping to see if it's his software that's needing up dated.
I guess I won't find out until tomorrow now


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm saying 487bhp. Although its 1.4 bar the flow of the turbos will restrict things.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm a bit confused here, what turbos are we guessing for and what's the engine spec briefly?

If we're talking standard turbos, you won't get 500 at the fly @ 1.2 bar


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Believe it's pretty much stock engine but with steelies at 1.4bar. That's what I'm basing my figures on.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

It's a full stage 2 engine apart from uprated cams and turbos.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

I think you'll get around 430 

hope you get more though.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

It's already 430! Remapped by abbey a few years ago. Since then it's had new turbos albeit standard size and a few other bits and bobs. 
Might not be the big power your used to but I just want to infuriate m3 and rs4 drivers, not lamborghini's etc.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Right, in which case the power figure should bump up a bit then.

Bigger injectors??

RS4 @420hp will beat a 500hp Skyline all day, with ease as well.

M3's are sharp as well. You need slightly more than 500 to really give them a problem, or the difference won't be that noticeable.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

ill get NY wife to flash them just before the race then.


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## andyR43 (Jun 13, 2010)

JTJUDGE said:


> ill get NY wife to flash them just before the race then.


Then throw her out of the car to reduce weight!! :smokin:


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Lol


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## gts-tom (Jun 14, 2010)

Good luck mate and I'm guessing 455fwhp


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

RS4 beat a genuine 500bhp GTR? Very much doubt that.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

its s bit immature but do any of you ever get that feeling that when your in your gtr, you feeling like nothing can beat you? 

I'm hoping the outcome isn't a let down. I suppose as long as it comes out healthier than it went in then its worth it. 

And why is it that when ever you have some gimp driving up your arse on the road your either on the way to put petrol in or the other half is sitting next to you with that look of 'don't you dare' on her face


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## gts-tom (Jun 14, 2010)

markM3 said:


> RS4 beat a genuine 500bhp GTR? Very much doubt that.


Thats what I thought. Surly the physics don't add up, less power and more weight


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

Also I'm pretty sure RS4's don't actually put out their claimed 420bhp either, more around 380ish


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Well we'll find out soon enough as my gtr has a date with one such car at crail in may. 

I'm still eaiting on word back about my ecu....


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

JTJUDGE said:


> its s bit immature but do any of you ever get that feeling that when your in your gtr, you feeling like nothing can beat you?


That's the exact childish feeling that keeps the quest for more power going. You simply want to be faster. 

I had an Abbey tuned 650 @fly hp GTR, It was beaten by a Mecedes SL or CL63 one of them heavy sounding Mercs.

I was very confindent I'd beat him, but the guy rolled his window down, he goes "don't try it mate" an elderly guy as well. The result was a bit annihilating.

Anyway since that time, I thought (rather childishly) I'd never lose a street race again, I found it so embarrassing and humiliating. So that kept the motivation of modifying and wanting to go "faster" alive for years that came by.

But when you mature a bit, then you'd have a different approach. There's alwasy someone better than you, stronger than you and in the same sense there's always gonna be another car faster than yours, maybe another GTR would teach you a heartbreaking lesson.

But guess what. In the GTR that got stolen, in the last 4 years I had it..... nothing ever touched it. It destroyed everything there was. Lambo's, Ferrari's, Porsche GT2s, turbos, etc, it ate anything on it's path.

One a rare ocassion a Porsche Carrera GT. so I was very proud of it.

Yes it is all kind of childish, but on the flip side that's what keeps you searching for more power.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> I had an Abbey tuned 650 @fly hp GTR, It was beaten by a Mecedes SL or CL63 one of them heavy sounding Mercs. I was very confindent I'd beat him, but the guy rolled his window down, he goes "don't try it mate" an elderly guy as well..


That could only have been a Brabus, because at 650bhp you'd beat anything else


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> That could only have been a Brabus, because at 650bhp you'd beat anything else


It probably was, as it was unusually quick. I had had runs with Merc's before a number of times not a problem, but this odd one was something else. The usual AMG mercs are not all that.

Brabus I think they have a 7.3L engine V12 biturbo. Yeah that's the one I remember on the front wing on the side it said V12 biturbo, whatever model that is.


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## Chou (Apr 18, 2005)

Jags is right, RS4's don't make anywhere near 420hp and even if they did they still wouldn't come anywhere near a 500hp GT-R.

As for M3's, they simply can't even be comparable to a 500hp GTR...different leagues.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> because at 650bhp you'd beat anything else



650hp is nothing special, you'd be surprised how many cars can kick your ahhs or at least keep up.

To rise above the rest, you need a couple more horses.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> 650hp is nothing special, you'd be surprised how many cars can kick your ahhs or at least keep up.
> 
> To rise above the rest, you need a couple more horses.


I was talking about mercs


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

MIKEGTR said:


> I was talking about mercs


But coming to think about it, there is nothing this side of £150k that will beat you with 650brake


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Faz Choudhury said:


> Jags is right, RS4's don't make anywhere near 420hp and even if they did they still wouldn't come anywhere near a 500hp GT-R.
> 
> As for M3's, they simply can't even be comparable to a 500hp GTR...different leagues.


An RS4 will give a near enough 500hp Skyline a hard time trust me  seen it all mate. 

they put the power down better than the Skylines, that's one of the reasons.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> An RS4 will give a near enough 500hp Skyline a hard time trust me  seen it all mate.
> 
> they put the power down better than the Skylines, that's one of the reasons.


No way at all. My mate had an RS4 and it was pony, sounded nice but that was it. 

All I can say Nige is that the 500 brake skylines you have seen must have been PUB Tuned


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> No way at all. My mate had an RS4 and it was pony, sounded nice but that was it.
> 
> All I can say Nige is that the 500 brake skylines you have seen must have been PUB Tuned


If you call TR racing a pub then yeah it was


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Similarly the new M3 V8 puts out 420hp, try it out with a 500hp Skyline you'll find out for yourself, the result would be rather unexpected 

course we are talking engine power figures.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> If you call TR racing a pub then yeah it was


Well there's not much in it between a V8 M3 and a RS4 and an E36 M3 isn't far behind the V8 variant, so in effect you're pretty much saying that a E36 M3 will keep up with a 500brake GTR!

No way I'm afraid, my GTR is 554brake and I can tell you as per above, that there is no standard car, this side of £150k that will get close to it.

The same mate who had the rs4 has now got a 996 turbo and supposidly had a 650brake upgrade, well its still got beat by my GTR with a paultry 554


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Well there's not much in it between a V8 M3 and a RS4 and an E36 M3 isn't far behind the V8 variant, so in effect you're pretty much saying that a E36 M3 will keep up with a 500brake GTR!
> 
> 650brake upgrade, well its still got beat by my GTR with a paultry 554


E36 M3??


Mike, with 554 hp you will not beat a 650hp Porker, that will never happen.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Bet your mate hates your gtr


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

JTJUDGE said:


> Bet your mate hates your gtr


No, he wouldn't hate the GTR because his Porker was probably PUB tuned @ 650hp :chuckle:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> E36 M3??
> 
> 
> Mike, with 554 hp you will not beat a 650hp Porker, that will never happen.


I said he had a supposid 650 upgrade, it made 592 on the same rollers that mine made (although we have both been told it is 50bhp less than some peoples rollers).

I raced him six times, rolling from 30mph and even with mine being laggy on a T78 I beat him every time - I have about 10 witnesses to it as they were pissing themselves because he was giving it the larry.

I'm sure if Justin is reading this he'll confirm how quick my car is at 554


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## B16JUS (Oct 17, 2011)

ive been lucky enough to have owned a rs6 / 2 e46 m3's / m6 / 2 500bhp skylines there is no way they would keep up with a correctly set up 500bhp+ gtr ( the m6 is by far the quickest and would need a slight advantage to get ahead )

mikes 554bhp is a example if was in the m6 and got a head start he would soon reel me in but i would be ahead for some time before this happens ( providing his gearbox lasts )

i have a friend with a c63 and also a cl63 and your gtr at 650bhp being wooped by a merc i would say they either got you sleeping or there was a problem with your car as alough the cl65's are slightly quicker there isnt that much in it and a well set up 650bhp gtr on the road is a machine and as mike says nothing really under 150k will keep up 

J


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> No, he wouldn't hate the GTR because his Porker was probably PUB tuned @ 650hp :chuckle:


Same dyno as mine, just a week later


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> E36 M3??
> 
> 
> Mike, with 554 hp you will not beat a 650hp Porker, that will never happen.


Previous posts when I was looking at V8 M3's you stated (and iifrc posted a video of a E36 vs E90) and there was nothing in it


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

This is how fast a 630hp Porker is, trust me a 550 hp Skyline won't touch it.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Previous posts when I was looking at V8 M3's you stated (and iifrc posted a video of a E36 vs E90) and there was nothing in it


No, I can't recall posting that vid Mike.

E36 M3s are about 230hp or something like that, never had one of them.

You probably mean E46?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Trust me Nige, before I raced him I didn't think I stood a chance as I KNOW porkers make massive speed from relaltively low numbers, but as I said I raced him six times and pulled on him every time.

He had it rolling roaded (not mapped) a week after mine was run (on the same rollers) and it came out at 592. 

Now I'm not disputing the video above or any other peoples opinons BUT this is my experience of having 554brake and racing a 996 Turbo with more power than me.

You state that a RS4 puts the power down better than a GTR but I dissagree, the GTR IMO puts the power down better than anything else I've driven - it makes a average driver good


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> No, I can't recalling posting that vid Mike.
> 
> E36 M3s are about 230hp or something like that, never had one of them.
> 
> You probably mean E46?


Sorry meant E46, but the E36 3.2 was 316bhp


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## B16JUS (Oct 17, 2011)

E36 was 320 bhp if i remember correctly and do actually delivery it really well i owned one many moons ago

e46 was 340bhp ?


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Sorry meant E46, but the E36 3.2 was 316bhp


Don't know mate, that power figure I stated was merely a guess. I never had E36s.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

280bhp, the evo was 328 although it was more Like 300.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

That all came out spasticated so edited.

But basically the Evo 3.2 version was 316bhp (according to wiki)


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

JTJUDGE 

Back to topic, as you said a few pages earlier, if you want to be faster that RS4s and M3 etc, I suggested that you needed slightly above 500 to really put them to shame and beat them ephatically.

Or, they could keep up with you, you would still beat them with 500, but it won't be as emphatic.

So take my advice buddy, tune it up to say 530-550 ish mark and you'll sure kick their arse with emphasis 

Been there done that


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

And imo a 400brake GTR will beat a RS4 - been there done that.

As I said if your car gets the guesstimate that I made, you'll drive it and think 'BLOODY HELL!!!' this is quick


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## wildboy (May 2, 2010)

^^good advice^^

Beating them is not enough, you need to destroy them!
Blow them into the weeds!


Ps. Don't forget your skyline will really have 1000hp. They all have. As standard.:chairshot


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

wildboy said:


> ^^good advice^^
> 
> Beating them is not enough, you need to destroy them!
> Blow them into the weeds!
> ...


Exactly!!!

I took a guy out for a quick blat when I went Acecafe recently and he had a mate who had a 1000brake skyline - I said "haven't we all lol"


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> And imo a 400brake GTR will beat a RS4 - been there done that.


You want a wedge on it Mike? 

Go on a fiver !

a 400hp Skyline won't stand a chance against an RS4 believe you me 

It will be reminded it's a Datsun


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

I'll see how it feels when I get it back. They are still working on it 

On a side note, my last car was an xkr. I spent 2k on the engine getting it to 430bhp( fairly easily as well) a t w. Sold it to a forum user on here. I beat the v8 m3 at crail last year ( by a ball hair) 
My gtr feels more alive, ready, etc etc.



M3 driver was an old man but who knows what experience he had.

I got beat by a seat at crail as well! Go figure


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

A genuine 400brake gtr will beat a RS4 and I'd out my money where my mouth is


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Ok Skyline fanboys 

I'm ready to take the challenge, I have my M3 E46 341hp.

I reckon I will beat any Skyline up to 400bhp, bring it on boys

you will go back home with your tail between your legs 

Let's get it on, who wants to take the challenge?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

R32 400bhp - 1430kg
RS4 414bhp (most say less) 1680kg










There it is in black and white


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

wildboy said:


> Ps. Don't forget your skyline will really have 1000hp. They all have. As standard.:chairshot


Yes, heard that a lot. :chuckle:


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

According to paper the Hulk is also 1200hp and does 30-130 in 3.0 seconds,

But we all know it's a load of [email protected]

That paper is a computer generated estimate of power to weight ration in relation to time.

By that analogy, Nissan GTR will do 1/4 in 11.9 sec being 400whp and weighing 1740kg.

But it does it a second faster.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Does anybody on here know what this error code means (81) on an apexi ecu. This is what the mapper is getting

I'll start a new thread for this.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> According to paper the Hulk is also 1200hp and does 30-130 in 3.0 seconds,
> 
> But we all know it's a load of [email protected]
> 
> ...


Really!!! I thought standard GTR's were bang on that time!

As for the Hulk - well its the quarter mile that is the true dyno and that doesn't lie, so obviously if he doesn't get the times stated in the chart then maybe his quoted power figure is made up, but who am I to say that lol


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MY11 does the 1/4 11.2 sec


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> MY11 does the 1/4 11.2 sec


And is 530 brake - so approx 450atw


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

I played against a few cars with the R33, most was around when it was making 360 + HP


1 - BMW E46 M3 SMGII 340 HP - despite head start with the throttle I reeled him in 4th (1 bar boost, stock ECU, cat back exhaust)

2 - Mercedes SL65 AMG 612 HP - got past me in 3rd (same spec as above)

3 - BMW E92 M3 Coupe 415 HP - About even, ( same spec as above)

4 - BMW E60 M5 507 BHP - standing start, I was 2 car lengths ahead from the launch, M5 only started to catch up in 4th (same space as above)

5 - Audi TT-RS 340 HP - Audi Titty had head start while in 3rd, I reeled him in by 4th (same spec as above) 

6 - BMW M6 507 HP - even in 2nd gear, M6 started pulling away in 3rd gear. (1 bar boost, MINES ecu, cat back exhaust)

Since then I have a de-cat HKS system, and the car pulls quicker, closer to 400 HP. 

You'll find that driving a car making 400 Horses will see off most cars, and will make these big expensive cars such as the RS4, M3's, M5's needing to bust a gut to get any away from you in just a dry smooth straight line, at this point you are doing silly speeds that you risk prison.

At the end of the day a GTR is an all round driving tool, straight line blasts is only part of what it is really about. People want to spend between 30 - 100 grand only to go a bit faster on the M1, then that's their problem!


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> And is 530 brake - so approx 450atw


Dyno results state 415whp


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> And is 530 brake - so approx 450atw


Beat me to it.
I was going to say that about 25% transmission losses seems a lot on a modern vehicle.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Sidious said:


> I played against a few cars when my R33, most was around when it was making 360 + HP


With that power^ you will not beat an RS4  forget about reeling him, he would be at McDonald enjoying a big mac by the time you catch up.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> Dyno results state 415whp


And as mentioned, dyno results mean nothing, times give you the power figure


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## dragerboy (May 15, 2003)

This is quite a funny thread now. I have to edge towards what Nigel-Power is saying. Modern cars are generally much faster with less horse power due to modern gearboxes and also they seem to have such low down grunt. My Gtst is running 450atf and at moments it is very quick but according to that 1/4 mile sheet I should be around 11.5 but its never going to achieve this.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> And as mentioned, dyno results mean nothing, times give you the power figure


You couldn't be more wrong.

Considering a 1000bhp Mustang American muscle does 1/4 in 20 seconds or so :chuckle:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

dragerboy said:


> This is quite a funny thread now. I have to edge towards what Nigel-Power is saying. Modern cars are generally much faster with less horse power due to modern gearboxes and also they seem to have such low down grunt. My Gtst is running 450atf and at moments it is very quick but according to that 1/4 mile sheet I should be around 11.5 but its never going to achieve this.


Really, power to weight doesn't change with age and as I said the chart that I have posted is a pretty good rule of thumb


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Nigel-Power said:


> You couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> Considering a 1000bhp Mustang American muscle does 1/4 in 20 seconds or so :chuckle:


A 1000bhp American car is probably from a 3 tonne 10lt engine


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Really, power to weight doesn't change with age and as I said the chart that I have posted is a pretty good rule of thumb


That chart only told me one word it's a new English word as well


"bolloxology" so that chart is called a bolloxograph.


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> With that power^ you will not beat an RS4  forget about reeling him, he would be at McDonald enjoying a big mac by the time you catch up.


I wonder if you ever driven a car fast in the real world sometimes?

And RS4 makes 415 Horse power, and has 100 kilos on an R33 GTR. 

My GTR at the time made around a conservative 360 HP, that's about a power to weight of 236 hp / 1000 KG vs 251 hp / 1000 KG

That's a 6% difference, which is sod all in the grand scheme of things.

I played with cars that have 15 - 25% and still remain close. 

So a 400 HP R33 GTR would eat an RS4, and that farking pose mobile BMW M3 E46 for desert

.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Sidious said:


> I wonder if you ever driven a car fast in the real world sometimes?
> 
> And RS4 makes 415 Horse power, and has 100 kilos on an R33 GTR.
> 
> ...



You sure you have taken your pills today sidious?

With the power you are stating, you won't even beat a Golf R32, let alone an RS4.

Back to the drawing board for you 

If you want to have a race with a pussy magnet (M3) come along mate,

will be happy to take the opportunity 

As for me having driven a fast car :nervous: 

not really....... but something a bit more than fast


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> You sure you have taken your pills today sidious?
> 
> With the power you are stating, you won't even beat a Golf R32, let alone an RS4.
> 
> ...


Sidious is on the money.

Nige you really are way off the mark on this one


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Sidious is on the money.
> 
> Nige you really are way off the mark on this one


I reckon Sidious can't even beat a gilry car such as a Mini Cooper S. :smokin:















:chuckle:


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## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

Nigel-Power said:


> With that power^ you will not beat an RS4  forget about reeling him, he would be at McDonald enjoying a big mac by the time you catch up.


A 400hp R33 GTR would beat a RS4 and E46 M3 all day every day. 

Nurburgring lap times (standard):

R33 GTR VSpec 7:59
Audi RS4 8:09
BMW E46 8:22​


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## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

Nigel-Power said:


> With the power you are stating, you won't even beat a Golf R32, let alone an RS4.


Lol you really believe that???? :runaway:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

andyc said:


> Lol you really believe that???? :runaway:


Lol that took away the one remaining ounce of credibility that his arguement had


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## GOGS 2 (Jun 21, 2009)

a genuine 400hp gtr would shit on a rs4 or v8 m3. ive got a stage 1 r32 gtr thats making 406hp with a remaped apexi ecu. boost controller and full exhaust + decat. i used to own a e36 m3 they are about the same speed as a e46 m3 and my gtr is a lot faster

on the same dasteck dyno my car was remaped on. a v8 m3 made 370 hp two v8 audi rs4 made 380 hp and a remaped ttrs made 380hp. all these cars weight a lot more than my r32 gtr and i have about 30-40 more hp so i cant really see any of these cars being faster than my gtr


----------



## Carfiend (Aug 13, 2009)

Guys, just to let you know, my dick is huge

/thread


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Carfiend said:


> Guys, just to let you know, my dick is huge
> 
> /thread


Lol, thread closed, arguement won :chuckle:


----------



## muzzer2002 (Oct 10, 2007)

it dont matter how much power you bloddy have 


it all comes down to the way the power is deliverd and the driver


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

muzzer2002 said:


> it dont matter how much power you bloddy have
> 
> 
> it all comes down to the way the power is deliverd and the driver


Really!!!

You don't see many 10 second vauxhall Novas lol


----------



## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Carfiend said:


> Guys, just to let you know, my dick is huge
> 
> /thread


I'll bet you mine is faster :chuckle:


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

freakazoid3 said:


> I'll bet you mine is faster :chuckle:


I bet you mine has less miles on it


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> I bet you mine has less miles on it


I doubt that Mike, as you go on a time attack mission every night before you go to bed.

You sure you haven't clocked it back illegally ?

:chuckle: 

the system shows high mileage here


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> I doubt that Mike, as you go on a time attack mission every night before you go to bed. You sure you haven't clocked it back illegally ? :chuckle: the system shows high mileage here


Nige I wish it had more miles on it lol


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

andyc said:


> A 400hp R33 GTR would beat a RS4 and E46 M3 all day every day.
> 
> Nurburgring lap times (standard):
> 
> ...


So, by this account^ a standard R33 should be faster than an RS4 and M3 in the real world right??

Now, the question is:

Why is it not? 


The real world is not nurbugring opcorn:


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> With the power you are stating, you won't even beat a Golf R32, let alone an RS4.


I actually played against a MKV shape Golf R32 a few years back, it had a 4 car head start while both in 2nd and I got past it by end of 3rd gear.

This was on factory boost and only a cat back exhaust.

It's an easy win because I had about a 60% HP/weight advantage. 

So when comparing cars such as the Skyline to M3's, Audi RS's, mid level Porkers etc etc, the differences usually fall in the measily 10-15% range. The performance difference are in all fairness easily mitigated with the speed of gear changes, the mistakes of the driver and the limits of road conditions.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Carfiend said:


> Guys, just to let you know, my dick is huge
> 
> /thread


you are the best spammer we've ever had. :bowdon1:


----------



## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

Nigel-Power said:


> So, by this account^ a standard R33 should be faster than an RS4 and M3 in the real world right??
> 
> Now, the question is:
> 
> ...


Yes and in the real world a R33 GTR with 400 bhp will beat a RS4 and M3 

opcorn:


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

andyc said:


> Yes and in the real world a R33 GTR with 400 bhp will beat a RS4 and M3 opcorn:


Nige I know you aren't serious and you're just seeing how many miles you can get out of this thread lol


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

andyc said:


> Yes and in the real world a R33 GTR with 400 bhp will beat a RS4 and M3
> 
> opcorn:


If it was a dry day with nice straight roads, IME it would be quite close, possibly needing to hit the end of 4th gear to see a result.


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

andyc said:


> Yes and in the real world a R33 GTR with 400 bhp will beat a RS4 and M3
> 
> opcorn:


No, honestly it won't mate, on a serious note.

You guys have not tested it, where's some people have 

Do the tests for yourself , you'll find out.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Nige I know you aren't serious and you're just seeing how many miles you can get out of this thread lol


I hope I can manage as many as you've collected on your dyno runs at night Mike 

Personal dynamometer?

:chuckle:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> I hope I can manage as many as you've collected on your dyno runs at night Mike
> 
> Personal dynamometer?
> 
> :chuckle:


U mean my personal experience of two different cars run on the same dyno and then raced against each other with witnesses


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> No, honestly it won't mate, on a serious note.
> 
> You guys have not tested it, where's some people have
> 
> Do the tests for yourself , you'll find out.



I dunno, the E92 M3 I toyed against when I had stock ECU and 1 bar boost it was pretty even - he had his SMG to help him out while I had my primative 5 speed manual box. I had a play against faster BMW's such as the V10 powered M5 and M6, and only the M6 could actually pull away. 

With the Mines ECU and de-cat exhaust @ 1 bar, it felt and went quicker, I even timed the difference in acceleration, funny enough very similar times to that of an BMW E92 M3 and a Porsche 996 Turbo.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> No, honestly it won't mate, on a serious note.
> 
> You guys have not tested it, where's some people have
> 
> Do the tests for yourself , you'll find out.


It's ok if u disagree with me, I can't force u to be right


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## B16JUS (Oct 17, 2011)

If it helps guys i have a M6 here and im not shy when driving it so if anyone in essex area wants to compare there spec against a car which is known quicker than a rs4 / rs6 / m3 et c etc

** to confirm i do not condone racing its mikes fault for egging me on **


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Lol not likely, u know what I'm like as a passenger!


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

B16JUS said:


> If it helps guys i have a M6 here and im not shy when driving it so if anyone in essex area wants to compare there spec against a car which is known quicker than a rs4 / rs6 / m3 et c etc
> 
> ** to confirm i do not condone racing its mikes fault for egging me on **


Mike and others need a lift in an RS4 while it beats a 400+ Skyline



Now, who's got an RS4 on here?

I have the M3, there's M6^ let's do this !!!! bring the Skyline now


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Yeah I've never been in one, even though about 3 pages ago I told u my mate had one


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Yeah I've never been in one, even though about 3 pages ago I told u my mate had one


So did your "mate" race against a 400bhp Skyline while you were the passenger?

If so, you should know the RS4 was quicker


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

A 400hp GTR won't beat a 996 turbo by a mile trust me, I own both and the porker is WAY faster...I've had a 650hp gtr aswell and that *might keep up....As for the RS4, I've got an S4 but haven't tested it against the GTR so can't comment on that although the Audi feels slower


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

freakazoid3 said:


> A 400hp GTR won't beat a 996 turbo by a mile trust me, I own both and the porker is WAY faster...I've had a 650hp gtr aswell and that *might keep up....As for the RS4, I've got an S4 but haven't tested it against the GTR so can't comment on that although the Audi feels slower


S4 and RS4 are different gravy mate.

Do the test against the RS4 against the 400hp Skyline.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Do u not understand the power to weight equation


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## B16JUS (Oct 17, 2011)

Is nigel a troll lol


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> Do u not understand the power to weight equation


I looked up the RS4. Blimey, they are heavier than a people carrier! :chuckle:

No way would it keep up with a 400bhp Skyline, it'd be about 25bhp per tonne down, which is around 10% of the bhp per tonne.



B16JUS said:


> Is nigel a troll lol


I think he likes a reaction.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

He's talking so much sh1t the I don't know whether to offer him a breathe mint or toilet roll


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Do u not understand the power to weight equation


Mike, now you are starting to sound like your best mate enshui

The question is, Do you ?

As I said your earlier chart that you posted, that was discarded as a piece of fact as to why horse power has nothing to do with terminal times.


If power to weight ration mattered, the R35 GTR wouldn't be as quick as it is, outrunning cars which do have much better power to weight.

Power to weight is a basic physics theory and it's true, but it's not limited and constant.

Other laws (factors) of physics can change that, as we have now seen with a 1740kg 480bhp car with great aerodynamics and faster gear changes @ a rate of 2.4 mili-seconds, it outruns cars which have an advantage over the R35 when it comes to power to weight argument.

How much lighter is a 911 turbo than the GTR ? Both putting out 480hp the GTR although heavier, but it's faster.


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## gts-tom (Jun 14, 2010)

Surly it's not just how much power you have. Those V8's are going to make torque easier than our pokey straight 6's. Think Nigel has a good argument but no way will a RS4 be anywhere near a 500hp GTR


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Im really glad I waded through this thread


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Im really glad I waded through this thread


:chuckle:


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## P3RV3RT (Aug 2, 2005)

Anyway....

496 bhp


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

0. So far. Still problems with his software.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

CT17 said:


> I looked up the RS4. Blimey, they are heavier than a people carrier! :chuckle:
> 
> No way would it keep up with a 400bhp Skyline, it'd be about 25bhp per tonne down, which is around 10% of the bhp per tonne.


What an idiotic thing to say, specially coming from an R35 owner.

You should know very well that effeciency and power delivery and gear change speed, aerodynamics, balance of the car, etc in a car contributes to how it performs.

A 400hp Skyline has better power to weight maybe, but in terms of delivering that power, putting it down to the tarmac, it won't be as effecient as new cars.

As I said above, a 35 GTR weighs some 200kg more than say an R8 but, the R8 has 4 wheel drive, weighs less, has equal (in fact more power the V10) but it's slower than the GTR.

So where is your power to weight argument??

I'm pretty surprised that most of you don't get it. It's pretty simple really.

Let me ask you another question:

Which one is faster 1/4 mile...

An R35 GTR with 500hp
OR
An R33 GTR with 500hp

?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

The r33, it's lighter


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> He's talking so much sh1t the I don't know whether to offer him a breathe mint or toilet roll


So you run out of logical and sensible explanation and resorted to personal insults? 

Look no further than the R35 section where someone is showering it with a total splash of diarrhoea !

Instead of a tooth brush I recommend you to resort to a toilet brush to give that dirty mouth a good cleaning. Or do you want me to do it for you ?

Shower of sh!te all over many sections mate. So stop this childish personal comments.

If you have anything to say, you can explain it in a sensible manner.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> The r33, it's lighter


No, the 35 cos it has better and faster gear changes, and delivers the power more effeciently.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

A std v8 r8 does the quarter in 12.5seconds, have a look at my chart and it gives u a good idea of its accuracy


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> No, the 35 cos it has better and faster gear changes, and delivers the power more effeciently.


Really, normal 60fts are around 1.9, also there appears to be the rule of 30% transmission losses, that doesn't sound very efficient to me


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> A std v8 r8 does the quarter in 12.5seconds, have a look at my chart and it gives u a good idea of its accuracy


Mike, listen what I'm saying is without going further on this topic cos it's now becoming quite boring tbh.

I have had the RS4 and a Skyline R33 race many times

the RS4 has given it a very hard time, it's all tried and tested.

My M3 with 341hp will give a 400hp Skyline a very hard time believe me. I'm not just making this up, I have done this many times.

A 500hp Skyline will take both the M3 and the RS4 but it won't be very emphatic.

That's all I'm saying. A 400hp Skyline is NOT going to beat a 420bhp M3 V8 no chance mate.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Okay... watch this drag race and PONDER why a car with one of the worst power to weight ratio wins!!!


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

That little 1m did pretty good. Can't believe how badly the mercs start was.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

I wonder why the Ferrari 458 Italia or the Audi R8 V10 GT version, both of these cars have the power to weight ratio advantage over the GTR, but they still fall behind.

The Italia being 557bhp and a couple of 100kg lightet than the GTR

Audi R8 V10 GT being 560hp and about 200kg lighter than the GTR


I wonder why the GTR wins, can someone explain? opcorn:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nige I was talking about the quarter mile. Once u start racing over longer distances obviously outright power and aerodynamics have a more important factor as weight has little effect on top speed. 

Show me a car where that table doesn't come up with an accurate result


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Torque


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Torque


Thank you sir, that's one factor.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

The 458 does the quarter in 10.8 at 131, therefore beating a std GTR


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Maybe women drivers:nervous:

The gtr really is a great car isn't it. The big players surely must be envious


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Nige I was talking about the quarter mile. Once u start racing over longer distances obviously outright power and aerodynamics have a more important factor as weight has little effect on top speed.
> 
> Show me a car where that table doesn't come up with an accurate result


I showed you already, the times of the GTR itself at 11.2 sec 1/4 does not tally with that chart.

The effeciency of the gearchanges and effecient power delivery and better aerodynamics of the car defies that chart (as they say the laws of physics) as it were.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> I showed you already, the times of the GTR itself at 11.2 sec 1/4 does not tally with that chart.
> 
> The effeciency of the gearchanges and effecient power delivery and better aerodynamics of the car defies that chart (as they say the laws of physics) as it were.


It tallies perfectly. Look again and make sure u are using whp


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> The 458 does the quarter in 10.8 at 131, therefore beating a std GTR


That vid was the 1/4 mile and the 458 did it in 11.3 not 10.8



Agree with everything else though.


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

I used ferraris official figures


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Interesting reading: RS4 V8 REAL CRANK HP FIGURES - AudiWorld Forums


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> It tallies perfectly. Look again and make sure u are using whp


Well according to my finding using the unit of measement whp, it does not tally, but shows a slower time.


If that chart is accurate, In that race why doesn't the Audi R8 win the 1/4 mile or the 1mile race?

The Audi is much lighter, more poweful, 4 wheel drive ?

If power to weight was as significant as you think it is, it wouldn't matter wether the race is a 1/4 or 1mile, the same laws of physics would apply regardles. But it does not as explained before,,, there are other physical factors that play a role as well.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

It's 0.1 of a second out, but seeing as it is in 50bhp and 100kg intervals I think we can allow for that. 

Not sure why u are harping on about the r8, it's 414bhp but by all accounts doesn't even make that. 

Anyway, bored now. Laters


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> It's 0.1 of a second out, but seeing as it is in 50bhp and 100kg intervals I think we can allow for that.
> 
> Not sure why u are harping on about the r8, it's 414bhp but by all accounts doesn't even make that.
> 
> Anyway, bored now. Laters


The R8 in the video is 560bhp .

But yeah, you are getting boring Mike, time to put more mileage on maybe

:thumbsup:


----------



## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

The last of the straight 6 m3s was the same. My friend bought a brand new m3 back in 2006. He had one of those BMW uprated exhuast things and then got it remapped and dyo'd about 9 months later. 320hp I believe. he wasn't to happy.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

I timed it at 42 seconds for the "quarter"
Its right up there with that twaddle called the fast and the furious where they race between traffic lights and it takes a couple of minutes.
My car would be off the speedo in a lot less than two minutes


Please stick to the facts

This entire thread is silly

Drag racing cars ?
WTF yawn....
Next thing you'll be talking about fitting auto's to them ...

Mind you, if you think that is how you use your on call 4wd car, then maybe it is cool.

I always considered handling when making decisions on a cars performance


Any one got track times, or anything that involves skill ?


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Any one got track times, or anything that involves skill ?



Nurburgring times were quoted earlier but Nige reckons they aren't real world so we can't use them lol


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

GT-R Glenn said:


> I timed it at 42 seconds for the "quarter"
> Its right up there with that twaddle called the fast and the furious where they race between traffic lights and it takes a couple of minutes.
> My car would be off the speedo in a lot less than two minutes
> Please stick to the facts
> ...


4,328 pointless comments and counting....

I might be a " newbie" but whenever you comment on anything it always seems to be thread crapping for the sake of it, bigging your self up or putting somebody else down or simply "how to search" comments


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

So Nurburgring times don't count because they aren't real world? The ring is the best B road you will ever drive. If you you think real work is straight line tlgp you need to get out there ant learn to drive


----------



## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

You are a newbie, I can tell everytime you start a thread, by the newbie "I cant be assed looking for anything and I like to assume none of my well thought out questions have ever been asked before becasue lets face it my name is in CAPS so I must be sooper dooper clever"

I did search for "complete twat" and it came up with R32 ComTwat & JTJUDGE
So it must be true

Any better ?


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Mookistar said:


> So Nurburgring times don't count because they aren't real world? The ring is the best B road you will ever drive. If you you think real work is straight line tlgp you need to get out there ant learn to drive


This topic is not about learning to drive or becoming a better skilled driver etc. It's about the mentioned cars' performance.

Yes, the ring times count. Of course that's a reliable reference when it comes to a car's over all perofmance.

Say we did count the ring lap times..... with the times that Andyc posted.

Do you think a stock R33 is faster than a 420hp RS4 outside a track?




andyc said:


> A 400hp R33 GTR would beat a RS4 and E46 M3 all day every day.
> 
> Nurburgring lap times (standard):
> 
> ...


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

GT-R Glenn said:


> You are a newbie, I can tell everytime you start a thread, by the newbie "I cant be assed looking for anything and I like to assume none of my well thought out questions have ever been asked before becasue lets face it my name is in CAPS so I must be sooper dooper clever"
> 
> I did search for "complete twat" and it came up with R32 ComTwat & JTJUDGE
> So it must be true
> ...


Easy Glenn, come on fella... let's keep it nice and clean.

the ComTwat joke is funny enough mate... entertaining as always :chuckle:


----------



## Lubo69GTR (Mar 4, 2010)

JTJUDGE said:


> 4,328 pointless comments and counting....
> 
> I might be a " newbie" but whenever you comment on anything it always seems to be thread crapping for the sake of it, bigging your self up or putting somebody else down or simply "how to search" comments



Couldn’t agree more!

As for this Audi RS4/M3 rubbish. If both car’s have 400bhp one with a turbo and one without the turbo car will kill it every time. V8 or not turbos make the torque which mean the win every time! 

Not too sure what mine’s running maybe 330 but I saw off a E46 M3 at santa pod by half a second


----------



## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

GT-R Glenn said:


> You are a newbie, I can tell everytime you start a thread, by the newbie "I cant be assed looking for anything and I like to assume none of my well thought out questions have ever been asked before becasue lets face it my name is in CAPS so I must be sooper dooper clever"
> 
> I did search for "complete twat" and it came up with R32 ComTwat & JTJUDGE
> So it must be true
> ...


 I'm sure you were a "newbie" once as well. Probably a long long time ago though. 
You don't like it when somebody sticks up for themselves do you? You give it but cant take it. 

I'm learning all the time from this forum. Soon I'll stop asking stupid or done to death questions but until then, keep your petty insults and bigheaded comments to yourself please. :sadwavey:


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> This topic is not about learning to drive or becoming a better skilled driver etc. It's about the mentioned cars' performance.
> 
> Yes, the ring times count. Of course that's a reliable reference when it comes to a car's over all perofmance.
> 
> ...


Come on Nigel we've put up track times and quarter mile times, if u want a 20mph to 30mph time then I'm going to have to look into it lol


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

I announce my premature retirement from this thread since our godfather GT-R Glenn has swamped in. I'll do as told, use the search function.












:chuckle:


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Come on Nigel we've put up track times and quarter mile times, if u want a 20mph to 30mph time then I'm going to have to look into it lol


20-30.. will be a new class mate, sure we can arrange a meet for that. Will be a good showdown.


This reminds me of another pointless test here lol


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> You are a newbie, I can tell everytime you start a thread, by the newbie "I cant be assed looking for anything and I like to assume none of my well thought out questions have ever been asked before becasue lets face it my name is in CAPS so I must be sooper dooper clever"
> 
> I did search for "complete twat" and it came up with R32 ComTwat & JTJUDGE
> So it must be true
> ...


Out of order glenn


----------



## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Ok, Understood




Mind you it was a question, not a statement

And Im assuming you are not telling me I have the works indexed incorrectly ?


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

JTJUDGE might be a newbie but I like him, so just asking you to cut him some slack . Thanks dude


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> JTJUDGE might be a newbie but I like him, so just asking you to cut him some slack . Thanks dude


When I was a newbi all the mods PM'd me and said we don't like you :sadwavey:

In fairness to them though, they did also PM after I hads been here a while to reitterate that


----------



## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

I have run my GTR32 which produced 371 atw on a dyno dynamics over a mile run against other cars.

I don't do a drag launch, only a brisk start, changed gear at 7000 revs slowly (too scared on knackering my gearbox) (only 13.4 qtr time) and despite that only just lost out to a tuned 996 turbo with over 550bhp that was ragged off the line.

He did 169 across the line, I did just over 166mph in 32 seconds. The Porsche is slippery whereas the GTR32 isn't. The difference would have been less if I had done a drop clutch start etc.

I beat many cars times & terminals including TVR Cerbera's etc despite going easy on the car whereas other people were doing dropped clutch starts and snap gearchanges.

30 - 130 in a week, so there will be plenty of comparisons although weather conditions play a big part and GTR/Evos are running on a different day to the Audi RS4's etc.

Sam (Git-R) in his GTR32 on the secondhand tyres he used to use for trackday when he was running 480bhp went round Bedford circuit over 2 seconds a lap quicker than EVO has ever managed with a BMW M3 E90 (V8).

His car is well sorted, but even so, I was impressed.

Cheers,


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

markM3 said:


> I beat many cars times & terminals including TVR Cerbera's etc despite going easy on the car whereas other people were doing dropped clutch starts and snap gearchanges.


At Santa Pod I was beating TVRs in my front wheel drive 1.9 diesel Skoda. :chuckle:
They were doing about 13.7/8 quarter miles. Was close though.


----------



## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

:Just had another call from extreme motor sport and we're not any further forward. He's still unable to read my apex ecu 
Once again, we tested the ecu by installing it and starting the car up which worked fine. Injectors were fitted, pump is fitted. 
He's emailed all his contacts that deal with the software involved in apex ecu remapping software but no replies. 
He did say he's emailed a 3rd person called Glen from new Zealand :nervous: surely to god it's a coincidence....

If not, Glenn your you tube videos are very enjoyable. Watched them well before you called me a twat so I still like them. :thumbsup:


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

MIKEGTR said:


> When I was a newbi all the mods PM'd me and said we don't like you :sadwavey:
> 
> In fairness to them though, they did also PM after I hads been here a while to reitterate that


Ahhh Mike we love you really.


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

freakazoid3 said:


> A 400hp GTR won't beat a 996 turbo by a mile trust me, I own both and the porker is WAY faster...I've had a 650hp gtr aswell and that *might keep up....As for the RS4, I've got an S4 but haven't tested it against the GTR so can't comment on that although the Audi feels slower


No one said a 400 Horse R33 will beat a 996 Turbo. I said (my GTR) had acceleration figures that are nearly identical. Give or take 0.1 secs here or there! 

Just how a 415 HP 1600 KG Porker is "WAY" faster than a 400 HP 1550 KG GTR - I just dont know, maybe its the mythical powers of having a Porsche badge?


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> Mike, listen what I'm saying is without going further on this topic cos it's now becoming quite boring tbh.
> 
> I have had the RS4 and a Skyline R33 race many times
> 
> ...




So what point are you trying to make? So you agree that the small % in power differences between stage 1 GTR's against RS4's and BMW M3's wont count for much advantage for any of these cars in an actual straight line race?

Because no one has refuted that, and my own experience also confirms that these cars are close and will all give each other "a hard time".

But that is irelevant to me as I like to drive round corners - hence cars such as 612 BHP AMG Mercedes SL's didnt worry me despite being easily faster in a straight line :thumbsup:


----------



## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

^^No only the fact that it has less transmission losses uses newer technology throughout and as isn't made in a brick-like form drag is much less aswell 
I don't care about badges, only about good engineering, otherwise I wouldn't have spend so much time on here


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Sidious said:


> So what point are you trying to make? So you agree that the small % in power differences between stage 1 GTR's against RS4's and BMW M3's wont count for much advantage for any of these cars in an actual straight line race?


My point was clearly explained in the statement you quoted above.

In the outside world, street races do not happen in a circuit like environment, but on dual carriageways and motorways, very rarely on A roads and seldom on B roads.

You want to race going round corners in London? Where is the corner?

There are a couple that I know of actually, one is called Gillette corner and the other one is called Staples Corner :chuckle: 

But even they lead to the A406 Northe Circ or The A4 Great West Rd.

Where a car going round corners capability counts for much less.

The standard R33 GTR has a faster lap time round the nurburgring, but on a street race a standard R33 GTR will not stand a chance aginst the RS4.


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

tonigmr2 said:


> Ahhh Mike we love you really.


:nervous:

there was another thread where Mike expressed his "like" towards you as well.

:smokin:




Mookistar said:


> JTJUDGE might be a newbie but I like him, so just asking you to cut him some slack . Thanks dude


+1


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

freakazoid3 said:


> ^^No only the fact that it has less transmission losses uses newer technology throughout and as isn't made in a brick-like form drag is much less aswell
> I don't care about badges, only about good engineering, otherwise I wouldn't have spend so much time on here


What "fact" do you have as proof that the transmission losses are that much different to justify a 415 HP car to be "way quicker" than a 400 HP car?

Why does my stage 1 R33 haul itself between xx mph to xx mph in the same time as two different stock 996 Turbo's, if the Porsche is supposed to lose far less power at the wheels because of so-called newer technology I like to see evidence of it.

And again, what evidence of this "brick like drag" you have on a stock bodied R33 GTR? It has a co-efficient of 0.35 vs the 996 Turbo's 0.32 - 0.33 - not that much different unless you're doing 170+


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> My point was clearly explained in the statement you quoted above.
> 
> In the outside world, street races do not happen in a circuit like environment, but on dual carriageways and motorways, very rarely on A roads and seldom on B roads.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking perhaps you oughta sober up from your pub lunch before you post further nonsense Nigel.

A standard R33 has every chance of beating an RS4 on the street. Heck, even a 199 HP Civic Type R can show you the way home - it depends on road conditions, circumstance and what the driver is willing to do - some drivers like to drive fast only in a straight line, so he and his car WILL lose to someone who will happly do that and leave you in the turns.

You have to know what the circumstances are before you can sensibly discuss the outcome - as not everyone in this world feels the need to drive around with atleast 550 bhp in a straight line all of the time.


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Sidious said:


> I'm thinking perhaps you oughta sober up from your pub lunch before you post further nonsense Nigel.
> 
> A standard R33 has every chance of beating an RS4 on the street. Heck, even a 199 HP Civic Type R can show you the way home - it depends on road conditions, circumstance and what the driver is willing to do - some drivers like to drive fast only in a straight line, so he and his car WILL lose to someone who will happly do that and leave you in the turns.
> 
> You have to know what the circumstances are before you can sensibly discuss the outcome - as not everyone in this world feels the need to drive around with atleast 550 bhp in a straight line all of the time.


Sidious, you cannot declare your stupidity more convincingly that you already have.

A standard R33GTR will NOT touch an RS4 or the equally powered 420hp M3 V8.

They'll beat a standard 33GTR with ease.

Smell coffee and wake yourself up mate.

Stop deluding yourself and making guesses. Go and try it out mate and you'll find out.

If you live anywhere near west London, come along for a chat mate and we'll go for a little drive, I'd be very glad to show you what I mean putting these cars to the test.


----------



## MrGT (Jul 6, 2009)

Nigel-Power said:


> A standard R33GTR will NOT touch an RS4 or the equally powered 420hp M3 V8.


whilst i agree witht the above wasnt the arguement about a stage 1 r33gtr?
i have had a few tlgp's with m3's and rs4's and neither of them touch me at all ever, the m3 lights the rear up away from the lights and i leave them and the rs4's just dont launch as fast as my 33 does, this is a fact.

mid range pick up or rolling start is a different matter though as i (unfortuanatly lol) have to agree with nigel. i keep up/ beat my mates m3 about 50% either way but i cant keep up with my mates rs4 mid range (hence why im shooting for 500hp now lol).


tib


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> Sidious, you cannot declare your stupidity more convincingly that you already have.
> 
> A standard R33GTR will NOT touch an RS4 or the equally powered 420hp M3 V8.
> 
> ...



Have you actually read any of my posts?

I have posted earlier a few times that I already played against these cars you rave on about, I driven some of them aswell, and as fast as they are - they're not fast enough to worry my sub 400 HP GTR. 

I toyed with much more powerful cars than 415 HP German barges you own, and even those so-called monsters still need to bust a gut in just a straight line to get away a few car lengths, this is before you factor in braking and cornering. 

A stock R33 GTR makes 315 HP factory, assuming one still exists on 20 year old tyres and is 100-200 kilos lighter than an RS4 - that's around 20% difference in performance - that is not enough to beat any car with "ease"

That's like a 120 HP Corsa edging past a 100 HP Corsa, epic one sided race eh?

First you claim an RS4 will eat a 400 HP GTR (you got laid the smack down on that claim), now you are clutching at straws by comparing it to a stock GTR. Lol

What ever is next? "RS4 WILL EASILY BEAT A R33 GTR with misfire problems?!!!"


----------



## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

Depending if it's the RS4 saloon or Avant. Test driven a RS4 before and even though they are rapid I think the stock RS4 saloon will only slightly trump a stock R33 GTR but the Avant will have a hard time to...

Anyway, it's all based on gut feeling as I can't really push the car to its limits legally on public roads. I think its time for a track shoot out


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Sidious said:


> Have you actually read any of my posts?
> 
> I have posted earlier a few times that I already played against these cars you rave on about, I driven some of them aswell, and as fast as they are - they're not fast enough to worry my sub 400 HP GTR.
> 
> ...


Sidious, I am still saying an RS4 will beat a 400hp Skyline.

the reason I stated the standard R33 is because yourself and somebody else suggested that even an standard R33 will actually beat an RS4. (delusional bogus claims)

You've toyed wth German cars with your sub 400? That's good to hear, I'd love to see how your sub 400hp Skyline will beat the 420hp M3 V8, or the RS4.

Because I guarantee you won't. Heard this too many times and guys have tried it and failed.

The cars are there mate, if you want to take the challenge, pop down one day and we'll have some fun and in the meantime test drive the cars against each other.


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

sw20GTS said:


> Depending if it's the RS4 saloon or Avant. Test driven a RS4 before and even though they are rapid I think the stock RS4 saloon will only slightly trump a stock R33 GTR but the Avant will have a hard time to...


Maybe, but this whole pointless never ending debate is about a 400bhp Skyline. 
Not a stock one.


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

We have raced the RS4 against about 5 to 6 local Skylines who claimed they're running 400, 450hp

none of them have beaten the RS4 or the M3 V8 that I had from BMW.

The M3 V8 would do a 400hp Skyline pretty badly.


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Well to me that suggests they are over estimating their BHP in the Skylines or the RS4 has been tweaked...


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

CT17 said:


> Well to me that suggests they are over estimating their BHP in the Skylines or the RS4 has been tweaked...


Nope.

RS4 is stock, the Skylines are not, I know enough about Skylines to tell what sort of power they're running roughly.

I don't understand why people are claiming x y z, if they have not done it themselves, only guesses.

If you are running a 400hp Skyline next time you see a BMW M3 V8 or RS4 try it and see what happens.


----------



## jabran200 (Sep 5, 2005)

@JTJUDGE

What happened with your car in the end?


----------



## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Still waiting on reply from a company in New Zealand! I'm really not sure what's going on. I'm hoping it's something daft like the software he has isn't compatible for a gtr in which Case this company will send it to him. He is a paid up apexi remapper. 
The thing is, he maps gtst a lot, mostly with the apexi ecu as well. I'm giving it one more day and then I'll need to take my car somewhere else and hope they can sort it. 
Aparently he was getting an error code 81.


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

jabran200 said:


> @JTJUDGE
> 
> What happened with your car in the end?


What car do you drive?

I'm sure I have seen you around?


----------



## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

I know that question isnt for me but I'm driving the wifes Nissan micra. 1.2l. It's not very nice at all to drive. Feels very solid and reliable though but to me absolutely pointless. 
It's a 2008 model. 

Trying to talk her into buying a blue fiat 500.


----------



## jabran200 (Sep 5, 2005)

JTJUDGE said:


> Still waiting on reply from a company in New Zealand! I'm really not sure what's going on. I'm hoping it's something daft like the software he has isn't compatible for a gtr in which Case this company will send it to him. He is a paid up apexi remapper.
> The thing is, he maps gtst a lot, mostly with the apexi ecu as well. I'm giving it one more day and then I'll need to take my car somewhere else and hope they can sort it.
> Aparently he was getting an error code 81.


It may seem he has a really old unit because back in the day (like it was that long ago lol) they used to be fixed to a certain model of powerfc so a gtst box would map a gtst and an ae86 4age one would map ae86 4age ecus etc. 

I think that may be the case, Although I thought you could actually just tick a box and select the old grey unit (something like that) for full software functionality with an old box.

Here I took a screenshot if it helps, Sounds to me he might need to select the beige box. Could be unrelated but just incase it helps you.









Nigel, I drive the black R32 GTR. My names Adnan, I am sure you will know me by face.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

I'll show him this tomorrow. Cheers. He seems really clued up though and he's been doing this for years. I trust he'll work it out. 
Knowing my luck it will simply be either my ecu (which I bought from this forum) or my car. 
It's really frustrating.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

jabran200 said:


> Nigel, I drive the black R32 GTR. My names Adnan, I am sure you will know me by face.


Is it the J reg one?

think I saw it in Ealing Last week :smokin:


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Sidious said:


> What "fact" do you have as proof that the transmission losses are that much different to justify a 415 HP car to be "way quicker" than a 400 HP car?
> 
> Why does my stage 1 R33 haul itself between xx mph to xx mph in the same time as two different stock 996 Turbo's, if the Porsche is supposed to lose far less power at the wheels because of so-called newer technology I like to see evidence of it.
> 
> And again, what evidence of this "brick like drag" you have on a stock bodied R33 GTR? It has a co-efficient of 0.35 vs the 996 Turbo's 0.32 - 0.33 - not that much different unless you're doing 170+


The dragcoefficient of a 996 turbo is actually 0.3 until the rear spoiler comes up at 130k  

Regarding to the newer technology; the GTR drivetrain comes from the 32 which was launched in '89 and developped much earlier on, the 996 drivetrain comes from the GT1 and was revealed a decade later ... :thumbsup:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

freakazoid3 said:


> Regarding to the newer technology; the GTR drivetrain comes from the 32 which was launched in '89 and developped much earlier on, the 996 drivetrain comes from the GT1 and was revealed a decade later ... :thumbsup:


You would have thought in those then years they would have come up with something that was as least as good


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Wasn't the GTR a copy of the Audi Quattro ? 

Or at least it was inpired by its AWD asset


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Nigel-Power said:


> Wasn't the GTR a copy of the Audi Quattro ?
> 
> Or at least it was inpired by its AWD asset


I think the only simularity is that they are 4wd (was audi inspired by land rover )


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Were Land Rover inspired by tractors? Yes, therefore we're all driving glorified tractors.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> I think the only simularity is that they are 4wd (was audi inspired by land rover )



Ain't you clever Mike ?!


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Were Land Rover inspired by tractors? Yes, therefore we're all driving glorified tractors.


Didn't know tractors are 4WD !


Or you mean, the whole concept of driving on rough ground?

In which case the inspiration could've come from tractors.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Nigel-Power said:


> Didn't know tractors are 4WD !
> 
> 
> Or you mean, the whole concept of driving on rough ground?
> ...


Most tractors are now 4wd, you'll struggle to find a 2wd one (new).

The first Land Rover concept had a seat in the middle, rather like a tractor but had proper suspension, unlike a tractor. Moving to the present time, the JCB has Fastrac which is a high speed tractor with suspension. They would have you believe it's all their own doing although Mercedes might tell a different story about their own MB Trac. 

Without going too far off topic (which we have) there is a lot of borrowing of ideas from one manufacturer to another and the Japanese are as guilty, if not more so, than anyone is for copying. GTR rear lights? Could Nissan have looked at the back of a Ferrari and liked what they saw? Maybe a Corvette even?

Anyway, back to who's faster than who with the same power. Next.


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

freakazoid3 said:


> The dragcoefficient of a 996 turbo is actually 0.3 until the rear spoiler comes up at 130k


Even at 0.30 Cd at 75 MPH vs 0.35 Cd, there's not enough net drag force to really affect how much the car can accelerate, the level of drag increases significantly at much higher speeds and only in that situation the drag co-efficients and frontal areas of the cars will become an issue. 




> Regarding to the newer technology; the GTR drivetrain comes from the 32 which was launched in '89 and developped much earlier on, the 996 drivetrain comes from the GT1 and was revealed a decade later ... :thumbsup:




Erm they're still both mechanically driven transmissions using solid metal gears and splined shafts - even if they're made decades apart. Please dont make assumptions that just because its made by Porsche and its newer it is therefore more efficient without any actual evidence.


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Were Land Rover inspired by tractors? Yes, therefore we're all driving glorified tractors.


NO!
Land Rover were inspired by WW2 4x4 vehicles often refered to as Jeeps.
That's why the first four/five years of Land Rover production (starting in 1948) had an 80 inch wheelbase, the same as the "jeep" had.

The first couple of Land Rover prototypes were build on old "Jeep" chassis.

Yes, they did originally plan a centre steer like a tractor, but gave up on that idea.
This was only to save costs on making a utility vehicle to be sold around the world, so left and right hand drive was not needed.

But the Land Rover design for an actual tractor never got past one prototype. It had four wheel steering (and drive) and looked much like a regular tractor.

I won't go into the whole birth of the Land Rover on the estate in Anglesey as most of you would find it very boring and if TAZZMAX has heard of the Centre Steer Land Rover he may know it already. :runaway:

Needless to say, the designer of the Land Rover had a WW2 Jeep and didn't have anythign to replace this handy vehicle when it started to get on a bit.


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

CT17 said:


> NO!
> Land Rover were inspired by WW2 4x4 vehicles often refered to as Jeeps.
> That's why the first four/five years of Land Rover production (starting in 1948) had an 80 inch wheelbase, the same as the "jeep" had.
> 
> ...


Please tell me that you haven't got a 'One Life, Live It' sticker on your GTR:chuckle:


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Please tell me that you haven't got a 'One Life, Live It' sticker on your GTR:chuckle:


No, but until recently I had this:










"One Life Live It" was the Land Rover/Camel Trophy slogan. :thumbsup:


----------



## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

CT17 said:


> NO!
> Land Rover were inspired by WW2 4x4 vehicles often refered to as Jeeps.
> That's why the first four/five years of Land Rover production (starting in 1948) had an 80 inch wheelbase, the same as the "jeep" had.
> 
> ...


Thank goodness for these vehicles otherwise we would never have had the likes of the vauxhall frontera or suzuki vitara :bowdown1:


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> Thank goodness for these vehicles otherwise we would never have had the likes of the vauxhall frontera or suzuki vitara :bowdown1:


Or the Range Rover "Sport" opcorn:


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

That should've been called the Range Rover puffta sport.

Vitara owners never looked so **** even with their fat wheels and wide arch kits.


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> Sidious, I am still saying an RS4 will beat a 400hp Skyline.
> 
> the reason I stated the standard R33 is because yourself and somebody else suggested that even an standard R33 will actually beat an RS4. (delusional bogus claims)
> 
> You've toyed wth German cars with your sub 400? That's good to hear, I'd love to see how your sub 400hp Skyline will beat the 420hp M3 V8, or the RS4.



This all sounds like a broken record.

I posted 2 days ago (look back and see for yourself) that I played against a E92 M3, and it was very even. Stock ecu, 1 bar of boost, stock turbos and a cat-back exhaust. 

I have seen many in-car acceleration videos of a factory stock E92 SMG and manual, pulling acceleration figures equal to my car.

You can also download road test data (from Car and Driver, Road & Track magazine website) showing a full break down on how quickly an M3 accelerates, and again it does not go any quicker than the times I can get from my car.


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Sidious said:


> This all sounds like a broken record.
> 
> I posted 2 days ago (look back and see for yourself) that I played against a E92 M3, and it was very even. Stock ecu, 1 bar of boost, stock turbos and a cat-back exhaust.


So in your book "even" means you beat the M3? 

Sidious cut the bollox mate, you're not making sense anymore, you sound like a child going on on about Lego Land.

With the 360hp in your R33 GTR you will be left kneeled down to suck the bollox of the M3 V8.

If you haven't tried it, I asked you to come down and you'll find out for yourself.


----------



## bobwoolmer (Mar 27, 2007)

what a load of bollocks .
i've had rs4 & m3 & amg's & no way are they faster then a 400 bhp r32 gtr.


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> So in your book "even" means you beat the M3?
> 
> Sidious cut the bollox mate, you're not making sense anymore, you sound like a child going on on about Lego Land.


Erm no, I said the race I had was very even, I didnt say I beat the M3, it was very even race. Neither car gained or lost ground upto 4th gear.

It is *you* who seemed to be determined to assert to everyone an M3 is faster than a 400 HP GTR when in my experience (with just 360 HP) and when looking at the facts (acceleration times, acceleration videos) it is not the case.



Nigel-Power said:


> With the 360hp in your R33 GTR you will be left kneeled down to suck the bollox of the M3 V8.
> 
> If you haven't tried it, I asked you to come down and you'll find out for yourself.


This is getting tiresome, played against M3, even stevens, been there and done that. How many times do you need to be told? The M3 (and hence the slower RS4) cannot beat even a 360 HP GTR, let alone a genuine 400 HP GTR. you can think what you like and bait me all you want, but at the end of the day I am happy with my car, have been for a long time and enjoy driving regardless of what car it can or cannot beat in a straight line. Life isn't about competition or status, the sooner you realise that, the sooner you'll realise most people dont actually give a toss about your Audi and you might be able to live with that fact.


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

bobwoolmer said:


> what a load of bollocks .
> i've had rs4 & m3 & amg's & no way are they faster then a 400 bhp r32 gtr.


Haters gonna hate thats why.


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

bobwoolmer said:


> what a load of bollocks .
> i've had rs4 & m3 & amg's & no way are they faster then a 400 bhp r32 gtr.


Saj let's be honest shall we..

You haven't had no RS4s 

You haven't had no M3 V8 

Nor you have raced one of them against a 400hp Skyline, if you did you wouldn't have posted the above baseless non-factual bolloxology.

An M3 V8 will slaughter a 400hhp Skyline.

Go try it out mate and come back to me and post your results.


It seems we're going round circles because people come on here to post a meaningless comment based on their imagination rather something tried and tested experiments.

I'm getting bored with this thread now. 

yaaaawwwwn !


----------



## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

Nigel-Power said:


> Saj let's be honest shall we..
> 
> You haven't had no RS4s
> 
> ...


Ive atcually beaten an M3 on a moped! i swear! i was on the other side of the light before him! 

That has got to count ey?


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-power said:


> An M3 V8 will slaughter a 400hhp Skyline.


No it wont, stop spamming :lamer:


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

RonniNielsen said:


> Ive atcually beaten an M3 on a moped! i swear! i was on the other side of the light before him!
> 
> That has got to count ey?


that I believe, the moped can!!! all day :chuckle: , but the Skyline won't have a chance.

We've embarrassed far too many on the Great West Road.

Skyline boys are still licking their wounds


----------



## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

Nigel-Power said:


> that I believe, the moped can!!! all day, but the Skyline won't have a chance.
> 
> We've embarrassed far too many on the Great West Road.
> 
> Skyline boys are still licking their wounds


do i hear a challenge?


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

RonniNielsen said:


> do i hear a challenge?


I have been challenging these idiots ^ for a couple of days now, but all they do is talk shite based on their imagination, but won't put up to the challenge.

Come along, and put your car to the test, that's all Im saying. We'll find out what you are all about.

talk is cheap, your 400hp Skyline will not come close to the M3 V8.

Let them believe that if it makes them happy tbh.

What a bunch of children.


----------



## bobwoolmer (Mar 27, 2007)

Nigel-Power said:


> Saj let's be honest shall we..
> 
> You haven't had no RS4s
> 
> ...


:chuckle:

:chuckle: 

had an m3 when it was worth something not ten years later when there worth 5h1t.:chuckle: ........


----------



## RonniNielsen (Jan 14, 2011)

Ive driven both regular m3 a csl and m5 aswell trough my job.

i made a fully stripped 33 gtr with around 400 bhp. i would say, its tuff to say wich one was the fastest, on the other hand, im very laidback on my bhp claims,


----------



## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Ive raced both the older M3 and the V8 M3 in my stage 1 32, circa 400hp. But I'm not telling you the results because youve completely ruined the OP thread!

Pathetic argument that needs to be moved into another thread of its own!

Greg


----------



## bobwoolmer (Mar 27, 2007)

BMW = batty man wheels


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Nigel-Power said:


> I have been challenging these idiots ^ for a couple of days now, but all they do is talk shite based on their imagination, but won't put up to the challenge.


Nigel, read what you've written back to yourself and ask the question 'do all the other people posting on this thread think about me the same way?'.

It's a very real possibility that they do and you are getting very close to looking like a typical keyboard Ninja. Do you test vehicles for a living?

From where I'm standing you're living in as much of an imaginary world as the same people you are criticizing.


----------



## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> I have been challenging these idiots ^ for a couple of days now, but all they do is talk shite based on their imagination, but won't put up to the challenge.
> 
> Come along, and put your car to the test, that's all Im saying. We'll find out what you are all about.
> 
> ...




But there is nothing to prove or to find out - as I already KNOW when my GTR was only 360 HP, it was level with an M3 in a straight line blast. 

Been there done that got the T-shirt. 

I don't care if you're not convinced. You can sit there and write abusive posts all you want, and mull it over when you clock out of work at Knightsbridge, it's pathetic!


----------



## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

minifreak said:


> Ive raced both the older M3 and the V8 M3 in my stage 1 32, circa 400hp. But I'm not telling you the results because youve completely ruined the OP thread!
> 
> Pathetic argument that needs to be moved into another thread of its own!
> 
> Greg


This argument pathetic may be, but the OP actually did say he wanted to beat RS4s and M3s, hence all this pathetic argument


Tell us your results anyway, if you believe you raced them with a 400hp Skyline.


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

Nigel you keep saying this and that about so many cars,however I've also seen a lot of the results myself discussed, and they differ to yours, now I'll let you get back onto your high horse and tell me that I'm wrong   lol


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## bobwoolmer (Mar 27, 2007)

oh Yeah 496bhp JTJUDGE


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Nigel, read what you've written back to yourself and ask the question 'do all the other people posting on this thread think about me the same way?'.
> 
> It's a very real possibility that they do and you are getting very close to looking like a typical keyboard Ninja. Do you test vehicles for a living?
> 
> From where I'm standing you're living in as much of an imaginary world as the same people you are criticizing.


:nervous:

I do not test vehicles for a living , but have tested the above vehicles.

And no I'm not a keyboard warrior or whatever you call it, all I was saying is what I have experimented.

If people reject that, it's up to them, but it's a bit stupid when someone has not done it, but only make their own assumptions.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> This argument pathetic may be, but the OP actually did say he wanted to beat RS4s and M3s, hence all this pathetic argument
> 
> 
> Tell us your results anyway, if you believe you raced them with a 400hp Skyline.


The OP made a passing comment that you jumped on! 
Why state my results if your guaranteed to ignore them and carry on the argument?

Greg


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

JapFreak786 said:


> Nigel you keep saying this and that about so many cars,however I've also seen a lot of the results myself discussed, and they differ to yours, now I'll let you get back onto your high horse and tell me that I'm wrong   lol


Emil, can you elaborate which cars you are on about?

You have a near standard R34 and had the R33, tell us what your experience was if you ever did come across an M3 V8 or an RS4.

?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Nigel-Power said:


> :nervous:
> 
> I do not test vehicles for a living , but have tested the above vehicles.
> 
> ...


The thing is though, ridiculing people who don't accept your methods of testing as gospel isn't really helping your cause to convince them. Just saying that you beat a certain car with a given power by something similar isn't really scientific enough is it?

Maybe this thread could get back to topic if anyone can remember what it is.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Who framed roger rabbit I think.




Pointless now anyway as I reckon my car won't be ready for some time now.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> The thing is though, ridiculing people who don't accept your methods of testing as gospel isn't really helping your cause to convince them. Just saying that you beat a certain car with a given power by something similar isn't really scientific enough is it?
> 
> Maybe this thread could get back to topic if anyone can remember what it is.




BOOO !!


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

JTJUDGE said:


> Who framed roger rabbit I think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You'll be alright chap, the mapper needs to update himself and will get on with it.

No car is ever finished on time as far as I can remember. Things get delayed etc, it's a part of the game , just be patient, should be sorted by next week.


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Just saying that you beat a certain car with a given power by something similar isn't really scientific enough is it?


Heh, this is the internets, who needs science when you can just repeat yourself over and over until it's apparently true? :shy:


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Sidious said:


> Heh, this is the internets, who needs science when you can just repeat yourself over and over until it's apparently true? :shy:


:chuckle:

Sidious now go back and count how many times you have repeated yourself, yet no one took notice

opcorn:


Never mind though, stick to the 360hp if you are beating everything out there, no need to upgrade :chuckle:


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Finished now?


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

Going against my own word by replying, but my 34 isn't "near standard" really, and I've been out and driven E46 & E92 M3's, V10 M5's, 996 turbo DMS tuned to name a few. I have also had a little play with an E92 and know the outcome of that aswell, he turned around and drove away from me!! Only car that I have not been in is an RS4, yet have seen several so called 400bhp GTR's have a play with them, and seen the result myself, an also seen these GTR's play with other cars, there are several people in Birmingham that I know that gather up and have fun with friends who own these kind of cars.. 

Yes, I know I'm still wrong by the way as I didn't agree with you  lol

Sorry I have kept thread going, maybe it's best we closed if OP agrees, just a question was asked so I replied


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Someone start a poll FFS


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

May as well close it then.

as soon as I get my car back I'll start up a new thread with the figures.

Ps, I've arranged a race against the rs4 and the BMW m6 for the 1st sun in may. I don't know any m3 drivers though so that can be another time. 
I'll record the result on video. 
Crail raceway if anybody wants a shot themselves. 


Not in my car though


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Mookistar said:


> Yes, I know I'm still wrong by the way as I didn't agree with you  lol


You had to save the gayest reply to the last minute. 








plus don't tell us the result cos I know it already


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

Nigel-Power said:


> Emil, can you elaborate which cars you are on about?
> 
> You have a near standard R34 and had the R33, tell us what your experience was if you ever did come across an M3 V8 or an RS4.
> 
> ?


Well I know for a fact that Emil bum raped an E60 M5 in his R33. Only at the higher speeds is when the M5 reeled him in


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Evo says the E46 M3 does 0-60 in 5.1 and the standard R33 in 5.4

Add 100bhp to the Skyline and it'll be sub 5's easy


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Mookistar said:


> Evo says the E46 M3 does 0-60 in 5.1 and the standard R33 in 5.4
> 
> Add 100bhp to the Skyline and it'll be sub 5's easy


It's the E92 we are talking about Mook, the M3 V8


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Ok. Both have the same bhp/tonne and the Skyline is 4wd.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Mookistar said:


> Ok. Both have the same bhp/tonne and the Skyline is 4wd.


Stop using logic. You'll only confuse him.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Mookistar said:


> Ok. Both have the same bhp/tonne and the Skyline is 4wd.


The M3 has a 7 speed DCT dual clutch transmission with mili second changes which gives it the edge.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Nigel-Power said:


> It's the E92 we are talking about Mook, the M3 V8


Im not reading the whole thread but wasn't you originally claiming the older m3 e46?! Would beat a 400 skyline!?


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

minifreak said:


> Im not reading the whole thread but wasn't you originally claiming the older m3 e46?! Would beat a 400 skyline!?



Nope,

I said it'll give it a hard time. that does not mean it'll beat it, nor I said It'll beat it.

The M3 V8 will.


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## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

minifreak said:


> Im not reading the whole thread but wasn't you originally claiming the older m3 e46?! Would beat a 400 skyline!?


Thats what I thought, but then he realised a e46 would lose BADLY and then decided to change it to a e92 :chuckle:


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

andyc said:


> Thats what I thought, but then he realised a e46 would lose BADLY and then decided to change it to a e92 :chuckle:




:thumbsup:














not really sir. e46 will give it a good time, won't let it go easy.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

E46 is a comfortable win, the E92 is close but a 400hp skyline just has the legs. Trust me


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

This thread reminds me of the Monty Python sketch.
"Is this the right room for an argument?"

How long can you keep it going for?


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

CT17 said:


> This thread reminds me of the Monty Python sketch.
> "Is this the right room for an argument?"
> 
> How long can you keep it going for?



Mr Skoda :chuckle:


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

minifreak said:


> E46 is a comfortable win, the E92 is close but a 400hp skyline just has the legs. Trust me


Good for you mate.




the 1/4 mile you mentioned in the other thread looks good.
.
.
.
.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

What a polite chap you are.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

CT17 said:


> What a polite chap you are.


I know that, thanks for the merit Skoda man


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Nigel-Power said:


> I know that, thanks for the merit Skoda man


The edited version is an improvement.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

CT17 said:


> The edited version is an improvement.


:chuckle:


indeed


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

So what was the unedited version?! Got something to say then say it.


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## BAD GTR (Feb 13, 2003)

Had a tear up with an e46 m3 tonight. Only in 2nd and 3rd but I couldn't shake him. Reckon my r33 GTR has 360 ATF though so not what OP said exactly. Should have nearer 400 on Monday!

I'm a self confessed skyline fanboy but I do find that I struggle with ALOT of modern cars especially those with dsg/smg/dsc etc etc....Need more power.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

As I said, go and try it out.

So many people have been making their own assumptions without having tried or tested anything.

I drive an M3 as a daily so I have played with Skyline's a lot. The standardish ones won't touch me.

The M3 V8 I had as a replacement car from BMW the pics of which I posted in some thread some time ago, I had tears ups with a lot of the local Skylines and they were either beaten or given a very hard time. Those who said they were running about 4-450 couldn't rattle the M3 V8.


As I said, go and try it out for yourself, you'll find out what I'm on about.

I won't post in this thread again because it's becoming boring and a bit pointless now that people talk so much out of their ahhss without having tried a tear up, and it looks as if I'm arguing with myself here, but I will say these last words just to summarize what I've been saying since start of the thread.


*An E46 M3 will beat a "standard" Skyline, but will give a 400hp skyline a hard time though not beat it.

*An M3 V8 will beat any Skyline up to the 420hp mark .








> So what was the unedited version?! Got something to say then say it.


Already been said mate. the person to whom it was directed has already read the unedited version.


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## Chou (Apr 18, 2005)

I have owned an E46 M3, 400hp GT-R and a 500+hp GT-R

I've been a member on M3 Forums's for years and have met lots of E30,E46 and E90 owners many many times. We have all had spirited drives and also compared on the same dyno's at the same time/condition etc.

firstly....a remapped E46 is just as fast as an E90 M3 up to around 120mph...not much in it

Therefore, comparing my remapped M3 (and E90 M3's) to my 400hp odd GT-R, the GT-R would kill the M3. 

Lets not even start talking about the difference between an M3 and a 500hp+ GT-R (mine was 560hp)...

Peeps in the M3 world are forever complaining about turbo charged cars and how they encounter 'problems' with the most basic of force induction on the roads

So, I have 'tried it' and bought the t-shirt....trust me there is a big difference in every way..power delivery, acceleration, low end, middle end, top end...


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## BAD GTR (Feb 13, 2003)

Faz Choudhury said:


> I have owned an E46 M3, 400hp GT-R and a 500+hp GT-R
> 
> I've been a member on M3 Forums's for years and have met lots of E30,E46 and E90 owners many many times. We have all had spirited drives and also compared on the same dyno's at the same time/condition etc.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Always hoped this was the case and should have around 400bhp come Monday.


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## Chou (Apr 18, 2005)

BAD GTR said:


> Interesting. Always hoped this was the case and should have around 400bhp come Monday.


don't get me wrong, M3's are still weapons but where they come into their own is on track

for the vast majority of us who are not concerned so much with that domain, M3's are starting to show their age (although I love the heritage and the S54 engine)

this is why the new M3 will be turbo charged

can't wait for 1000hp M3's!


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

And is why the 1m is 3ltr twin turbo, and people are looking at the 335i instead of the M3. More tunability with the N54 engine. 

I'd like a 135i but 15k is alot compared to my faster R32 lol


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Faz Choudhury said:


> I have owned an E46 M3, 400hp GT-R and a 500+hp GT-R
> 
> I've been a member on M3 Forums's for years and have met lots of E30,E46 and E90 owners many many times. We have all had spirited drives and also compared on the same dyno's at the same time/condition etc.
> 
> ...


The above statment couldn't be more false than JFK claimed Nasa had landed on the Moon with the American flag in hand.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Nigel-Power said:


> The above statment couldn't be more false than JFK claimed Nasa had landed on the Moon with the American flag in hand.


so are you calling Faz an idiot or a liar?


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Mookistar said:


> so are you calling Faz an idiot or a liar?


Didn't the Americans land on the Moon though ? :chuckle:



According to JFK anyway.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

JFK was dead by the time man landed on the moon dude


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Mookistar said:


> JFK was dead by the time man landed on the moon dude



Or is it that they never landed on the Moon and it was all a hoax?







Yeah jfk was running the "man on the moon" mission, but I think the announcement was made by Ronald Reagan or whoever......


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

yes. Ronald Reagan, the famous actor made the announcement becasue the president was busy.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Mookistar said:


> yes. Ronald Reagan, the famous actor made the announcement becasue the president was busy.


LOL 

:chuckle:


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

So, when someone else apart from yourself says that they have done the whole M3 vs GTR, you still seem to want to mock them to an extent?! If it were anyone else, I'd ask if it was the school holidays already lol


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

JapFreak786 said:


> So, when someone else apart from yourself says that they have done the whole M3 vs GTR, you still seem to want to mock them to an extent?! If it were anyone else, I'd ask if it was the school holidays already lol


"innit"


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

:thumbsup:


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Oh no this tread died 
Keep it going, it was just starting to get amusing :chuckle:


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

@ Sidious: Stop saying all peeps who buy Porsches buy em for "the badge", badge snobbery is a lame excuse used by loosers who actually can't afford the car they've always wanted and eventhough a lot a Porkers are bought by lame bankers etc nowadays, who's buying R35's you think? And for what reason?
Get a life dude 

And by all means please pop by in your GTR and I'll show you my exhaust


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

I used to think a Porsche was a poor mans Ferrari and a Ferrari was a poor mans Lamborghini...

I know a little bit more now though.


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