# Svm



## 6jnc (Oct 10, 2014)

Do svm do warranties on the GTR's like litchfield do? 

What BHP can I expect from a 4.25 at svm


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Don't think so but autotorque do.

About 30 less than the 660/670 you get from a Litchfield stage 4.25.

This is due to the gains Iain has been able to find through extensive testing on his rolling road.

Don't think any other tuner, Cobb or ecutek, has achieved this.


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Yes they do but instead of taking £1400 odd of your money they look after your pocket if the car was to ever fail. 
Best to call them and discuss.

In regard to stage 4 Dyno figures, take them with a pinch of salt, half the time they are manipulated Dyno figures and make little or no odds on the road.


----------



## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

TABZ said:


> Yes they do but instead of taking £1400 odd of your money they look after your pocket if the car was to ever fail.
> Best to call them and discuss.
> 
> In regard to stage 4 Dyno figures, take them with a pinch of salt, half the time they are manipulated Dyno figures and make little or no odds on the road.


Do they put the looking after you in writing?


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

You can pay them for a warranty if it suits you better, I find it's always best to call and discuss your needs instead of basing anything stating on the internet as gospel. 
Svm, litcho, torque and any other tuner will be happy to help I'm sure.

For me paying £1400 a year for a warranty on a car that is exceptionally good condition was a waste of money. 
Items such as bell housings only cost circa 5-600 to replace and are probably the most likely thing to fail.
All other items are consumables so make no odds.

My car was built by Svm for the previous owner and I purchased it without warranty. Months later I spoke to Svm about an issue I thought I had and they happily obliged to check it over free of charge, when I inquired about a warranty they have me both options of either paying for a warranty or having them take car if any issue as of when at special rates.


----------



## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Adamantium said:


> Don't think so but autotorque do.
> 
> About 30 less than the 660/670 you get from a Litchfield stage 4.25.
> 
> ...


What?

Cobb, EcuTek are just give you a good starting point, you cant compare an off the shelf patch to a Dyno tune for your specific car. 

Personally i feel, if you need a warranty to feel happy modding a car, I think you need to re-evaluate your decision to modding it to begin with.

After sales support is a whole other topic, if you are spending thousands with a good company, the hope is that they would take care of you if something bad happens...key word, hope.

Have fun in the modding game, its a deep hole! :chuckle:


----------



## 6jnc (Oct 10, 2014)

Has anyone else on the forum had their car tuned by SVM?

What are your thoughts as theres a few reputable tuners for our cars


----------



## Karls (Jul 12, 2010)

SVM have a good rep, as do all the other recognised tuners on this forum.


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

6jnc said:


> Do svm do warranties on the GTR's like litchfield do?
> 
> What BHP can I expect from a 4.25 at svm


650R ? Stage 4.25 ? Package

As mentioned take some of these dyno results with a pinch of salt some seem very optimistic to say the least opcorn:


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

6jnc said:


> Has anyone else on the forum had their car tuned by SVM?
> 
> What are your thoughts as theres a few reputable tuners for our cars



Well my car is about to undergo a major transformation with Svm. 

After much research and deliberation I spoke with many companies and all were very forwarding and professional.

The thing that set Svm apart for me was the fact I got to spend literally a day at their head quarters going over every fine detail without any obligation to commit.
I was talked out of wasting my money on pointless mods and encouraged to stick to a goal without laying out thousands of pound.

I feel Kev understood what I want from my car and his enthusiasm was apparent, that's nice to see and inspires confidence.

My car is in the early stages of progression and thus far I'm very happy with what I've seen. 

I don't want to come across as a fan boy and I don't think I've earned the right to being an Svm advocate.

What I would say is; do your research, make comparison, understand your goal and what you're expecting, speak to a few tuners and if you're able; visit them in person and get a feel of the people you're possibly allowing to work and take care of your pride and joy.

Most of all enjoy it.


----------



## hsb (Aug 19, 2013)

Before buying my GTR I called literally all the top tuners as mentioned in this thread for advice on stages and servicing on top of reading allot of threads here. I went to SVM who are the furthest from me purely down to the way they talked to me on the phone and didn't talk to me like a walking wallet. I have owned allot of faster cars in the past and worked with various tuning houses but the quality of care via SVM has been nothing but top rated customer care.

My GTR has always been serviced by one of the different main GTR tuners out there including allot of their pre-installed goodies but I still chose something else based on how I was treated on the phone.

No ideas about SVM power vs others, my advice is what does it do on the track and how does it make you feel when you boot it on a dual carriageway, all the tuners stages prior to stage 5 are near identical from what I have seen, its beyond that when it gets interesting and who build serious monsters on a daily basis.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Rain said:


> What?
> 
> Cobb, EcuTek are just give you a good starting point, you cant compare an off the shelf patch to a Dyno tune for your specific car.


Think you've missed my point. Cobb/ecutek are the tools. I was stating that I don't think any other tuner has achieved the increased power we've recently seen purely as a result of fine tuning their maps over lots of days of rolling road tuning, regardless of whether using Cobb or ecutek. 

As for taking power figures with a pinch of salt, I'm a firm believer in not comparing dynos with one another, but for the same car on the same day with the same tuner I do consider it a valid tuning tool.

The numbers we've seen Litchfield produce recently eg. Stage 4s making 650bhp regularly do seem to push beyond the previously conceived boundaries. It does make me sceptical but the trouble is, I've seen the dyno read the figures we used to expect before the recently provided ecutek fuelling improvements. The dyno was consistent with the old expected numbers we didn't question, now that ecutek have unlocked what they have the potential is higher.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack, listen to what tabz said. Speak to the tuners that interest you, and get a feel for how they work and what they have to say. How they talk to you is important, you'll know who is right for you. They are all enthusiasts, and yes whilst they are businessmen, they are all petrolheads, genuinely interested in the outcome of every build. So long as you have a fixed budget in mind, and can justify it without losing sleep, you won't go wrong.

On the warranty front, I'm inclined to agree with Tabz, maybe put some money aside for self warranty if that suits you, depending on how far you are going.

Thing is SVM, Litchfield, JM Imports, whoever you use, I can't see them not charging for a gearbox repair when they did an engine conversion for you and you chose not to update the box against their advice.


----------



## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Litchfields warranty if you want peace of mind full stop.


----------



## harryturbo (Jan 24, 2004)

*ada*

read with interest Adam,makes a lot of sense about g/box ...well done


----------



## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Personally I've found Iain to be quiet straight up about what he feels is a safe tune on any of my gtr's and what could potentially do with making it even stronger, so with that in mind his warranty gives me peace of mind. I suppose it's also down to how the car is used and whether a warranty would cover the type of use (regular track days) for example. Personally I take very good care of my car and enjoy it when possible.


----------



## buzzysingh (Nov 19, 2012)

TABZ said:


> Yes they do but instead of taking £1400 odd of your money they look after your pocket if the car was to ever fail.
> Best to call them and discuss.
> 
> In regard to stage 4 Dyno figures, take them with a pinch of salt, half the time they are manipulated Dyno figures and make little or no odds on the road.


They don't do a warranty Tabz.

When I had my 4.1L engine build by them (which failed), I asked for a warranty and they gave me a special price but in the end failed to produce any paperwork. I chased around 5 times through e-mail but in the end gave up and also took my car elsewhere as it was having problems.

From my personal experience, I would not deal with them again. Go for litchfields or Jm imports (if you can travel that distance - I do!).


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Buzz think it's fair to say all tuners have a horror story to tell, most get brushed under the carpet and others get too much air time. Could things have been dealt with better with your car from all parties involved...most definitely, I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I'm sure you'll will agree (as well as those in the know) that there's a lot more to your car/engine/experience, then meets the eye.

As a consumer myself I will always side with the customer (you) but on the same note Svm have never not tried to help you out, unfortunately it's been ongoing for so long that the facts get washed away in transit. How ever is easily resolved if all parties can sit at a table like grown men and talk it out, like I suggested and still willing to make this happen.

Buzz it's about time to put it behind you and move on. (I'm sure the original poster appreciates your input, as do I mate)
You have an awesome car now and hopefully a trouble free year of motoring. 

I reiterate what I said before. It's always best to call each company and discuss your needs. If I went of half of what's written, said, gossiped about on here or other social media platforms, I honestly would not own an R35 due to the level of pettiness and playground like antics.

Thankfully I look beyond it and actually enjoy the positives. It's an awesome time to own a 35 and we have some awesome tuning shops that offer a cracking service.


----------



## buzzysingh (Nov 19, 2012)

TABZ said:


> Buzz think it's fair to say all tuners have a horror story to tell, most get brushed under the carpet and others get too much air time. Could things have been dealt with better with your car from all parties involved...most definitely, I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing.
> 
> I'm sure you'll will agree (as well as those in the know) that there's a lot more to your car/engine/experience, then meets the eye.
> 
> ...


Tabz, I was answering the OP post:
"Do svm do warranties on the GTR's like litchfield do? 
What BHP can I expect from a 4.25 at svm"

But also saw you posted something which is not true as they don't offer a proper warranty like litchfields (which was the question).

Also FYI when my first engine blew, I wasn't offered any support but pretty much nissan prices for an engine replacement but the moment SVM found out my car went to JM it all changed and was suddenly offered a lot more help. This is a more realistic scenario from my experience.

My situation is far more complicated than paperwork and a warranty offer but until my situation is resolved, I will continue to post/comment when I see relevant as don't want anyone going through what I have. Anyway you still owe me a message mate!

Buzz


----------



## hsb (Aug 19, 2013)

Sorry have no info or background on Buzzy's car, sorry to hear about it mate.

Having owned some heavy WHP cars in the past I have first hand experience of one of biggest motor builders in the US who built my motor only to have it let go after the run in oil change. Now this was due to multiple factors but no warranty in place but a good gentleman's agreement which was discussed over the phone and then in person to resolve.

Allot of reasons for the failure and some down to me but primarily the dispute was resolved amicably and professionally. I still had the same builder continue to work on other projects for me as I learned that having a lasting relationship with a Builder is just as important as their experience. We are modifying our cars based on an engine builders experience but also we want the most HP based on development parts at times (my situation).

I am a firm believer that warranty is one thing that's important but relationships and open communications are just as important.

Last thing - the same engine builder had more failures on high powered build than I could count but this is what lead to to become one of the nations biggest power shops from their failures.


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

hsb glad you had the resolve to see it through. I agree burning bridges is not the way to resolve an issue.

Like I said most tuners have a story to tell but ultimately the customer should be taken care off. It's a learning experience for all.


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

I'm 100% sure SVM started a thread over a year ago announcing they will be offering warranties. It should be easily found with a search if anyone wants to bother


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Adamantium said:


> Think you've missed my point. Cobb/ecutek are the tools. I was stating that I don't think any other tuner has achieved the increased power we've recently seen purely as a result of fine tuning their maps over lots of days of rolling road tuning, regardless of whether using Cobb or ecutek.
> 
> As for taking power figures with a pinch of salt, I'm a firm believer in not comparing dynos with one another, but for the same car on the same day with the same tuner I do consider it a valid tuning tool.
> 
> ...


do you have data to backup claims of higher HP? as in what's the trap speed in a 1/4 mile run? that will show power. what's before and after there extended tuning. are they better than the American cars that set all sorts of records?


----------



## StreetRunner (Feb 14, 2015)

Spoke to them earlier this morning in regards to tuning and servicing as currently looking to get an R35 and with them being on my doorstep it's a great help. 

Really helpful and booked in to pop along tomorrow to have a talk and discuss about any concerns I have as well as look around. Will check about warranties and report back tomorrow unless this gets covered before.

So far SVM get a thumbs up from me, no other tuner has ever offered to just pop along and discuss even when I don't own one yet.


----------



## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Do svm still post on here?


----------



## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Jay-pan said:


> Spoke to them earlier this morning in regards to tuning and servicing as currently looking to get an R35 and with them being on my doorstep it's a great help.
> 
> Really helpful and booked in to pop along tomorrow to have a talk and discuss about any concerns I have as well as look around. Will check about warranties and report back tomorrow unless this gets covered before.
> 
> So far SVM get a thumbs up from me, no other tuner has ever offered to just pop along and discuss even when I don't own one yet.


Who else have you asked?


----------



## Clogger (Sep 15, 2014)

mindlessoath said:


> do you have data to backup claims of higher HP? as in what's the trap speed in a 1/4 mile run? that will show power. what's before and after there extended tuning. are they better than the American cars that set all sorts of records?


The power figures are for FBO mods not 1500whp+ beasts.


----------



## StreetRunner (Feb 14, 2015)

Henry 145 said:


> Who else have you asked?


Just SVM currently, will try other tuners.


----------



## Bobby dazzler (Jan 10, 2014)

I do love reading these threads there great to get the fanboys going***55357;***56832;

In reply to the op's question 
Do SVM offer a warranty like Litchfields 
Yes they do but as far as I no they will warrant any stage powered car
How do I know 
I have one it was £1200 + a couple of hour inspection on my stage 4.5 
As far as I know it cover all the things Litchfields does 
My advice give Kev or Amar a call I'm sure they will inform you what they can do for you


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Clogger said:


> The power figures are for FBO mods not 1500whp+ beasts.


duh, I don't think anyone in the UK has over 1000whp.

im talking FBO.


----------



## Glgtr (May 21, 2012)

mindlessoath said:


> Clogger said:
> 
> 
> > The power figures are for FBO mods not 1500whp+ beasts.
> ...


Duh....


----------



## ttbestas (Jan 11, 2015)

cant go wrong with either


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Glgtr said:


> Duh....


you know that's crank HP not whp. you guys in the UK do things a bit different. however if you were to show me the trap speeds of that car we can get a better idea of the real power.


----------



## Glgtr (May 21, 2012)

mindlessoath said:


> Glgtr said:
> 
> 
> > Duh....
> ...


...You know the blue number is wheel power.


----------



## Clogger (Sep 15, 2014)

mindlessoath said:


> duh, I don't think anyone in the UK has over 1000whp.
> 
> im talking FBO.


You mentioned record breaking cars from the USA ? what relivance is that to what is being discussed ? hence why I pointed FBO out.


----------



## MR-07-SHA (Jun 17, 2013)

Litchfield warranty is massive peace of mind..highly recommended! 

I was previously a SVM customer..they mentioned a warranty was going to be arranged on my GTR..I waited patiently, but got no response after phone calls..kept telling me there was a delay etc..then as it happened a few weeks later my engine failed - rod let go!..they quoted me around £15,000 for a new engine - didnt have the best telephone manner as I recall! Wasn't happy.

I spoke to Jurgen and Iain who were far more supportive and decided to send my car to JM due to fast service/availability..great customer service from both.

Then moved on to a Litchfield stage 5 car..brilliant service..with warranty..huge peace of mind - considering my previous heartache. 

Now looking for my third GTR..in 3 years..I just cant get enough!!..Litchfield are helping me source one as we speak..will not think twice about who my tuner is..


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Clogger said:


> You mentioned record breaking cars from the USA ? what relivance is that to what is being discussed ? hence why I pointed FBO out.


if you look at the prior posts in the thread I asked a question from someone's post. then I hinted that it would be a far better measure of power to show a trap speed than a dyno chart. I could go further and say drag racing isn't everything, but its a pretty good indication of the power you're really getting. which shops got the better traps and no bent rods.

I guess with all that extra tuning for more power its got to show in the traps, no?


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

mindlessoath said:


> if you look at the prior posts in the thread I asked a question from someone's post. then I hinted that it would be a far better measure of power to show a trap speed than a dyno chart. I could go further and say drag racing isn't everything, but its a pretty good indication of the power you're really getting. which shops got the better traps and no bent rods.
> 
> I guess with all that extra tuning for more power its got to show in the traps, no?


You keep on mentioning trap speed and you may be right in that it is a true indicator of power but, while there are some who go to Santa Pod, drag racing is far less prevalent in the UK. Many people over here who go for FBO mods do not give a flying fornication about quarter-mile times or terminal speeds. Therefore, these people are left with before and after dyno runs to determine how their modifications and mapping have performed.


----------



## ISR36 (May 6, 2015)

Evo9lution said:


> You keep on mentioning trap speed and you may be right in that it is a true indicator of power but, while there are some who go to Santa Pod, drag racing is far less prevalent in the UK. Many people over here who go for FBO mods do not give a flying fornication about quarter-mile times or terminal speeds. Therefore, these people are left with before and after dyno runs to determine how their modifications and mapping have performed.


To add to this, Many people in the UK like to take their cars round corners too - a foreign concept to most Americans I know. :chuckle:


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

I think the point being made is just because you are seeing good dyno figures does not mean the car is faster in the real world 

would be good to see a shoot out of fbo cars by UK tuners in times ( 0-60 etc ) rather than dyno


----------



## hsb (Aug 19, 2013)

terry lloyd said:


> I think the point being made is just because you are seeing good dyno figures does not mean the car is faster in the real world
> 
> would be good to see a shoot out of fbo cars by UK tuners in times ( 0-60 etc ) rather than dyno


Would be epic to see this! Can this be arranged? Santa Pod?

Happens in the states all the time.


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

hsb said:


> Would be epic to see this! Can this be arranged? Santa Pod?
> 
> Happens in the states all the time.


Can you ever see this happening - the one with the best results will be quids in for a while


----------



## goRt (May 17, 2011)

This sort of thing:
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=334410

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

goRt said:


> This sort of thing:
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=334410
> 
> Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


Ish - tuner prepped cars at the event


----------



## hsb (Aug 19, 2013)

Grudge racing at a real drag strip is far better IMO.

Im thinking 60ft times / 1/8 / 1/4 / trap speed etc to survey the results. Winners for each section IMO.


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

terry lloyd said:


> I think the point being made is just because you are seeing good dyno figures does not mean the car is faster in the real world
> 
> would be good to see a shoot out of fbo cars by UK tuners in times ( 0-60 etc ) rather than dyno


That's why I suggested before and after dyno results to determine the impact of modifications, not comparisons with another car / another tuner.

The thing is, is Santa Pod the real world given that many of these cars rarely, if ever, see a drag strip? When on the road, these cars are all so damn quick that you're typically limited by other cars, conditions and the road itself more than whether you have 800BHP or 650BHP (unless driving on the motorway maybe). As mentioned before, torque and tractability is more important on road driving anyway. I doubt that my drive home would be any quicker in the former >90% of the time, and only by a few seconds the other <10% of the time.

Other than a few mph terminal on a race track / drag strip, would many of us be able to notice a difference of 10-30BHP in a car that already has 600BHP+? Torque, and tractability especially, is far more noticeable ...

My car (Stage 4.25) is a very quick car. I don't care if it is quicker than anybody else's Stage 4.25 car and I don't care if it's quicker or slower than Joe Public's car either. Why do people care so much about whether they have the quickest car? Most of us do not live on a race track ...


----------



## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

terry lloyd said:


> I think the point being made is just because you are seeing good dyno figures does not mean the car is faster in the real world
> 
> would be good to see a shoot out of fbo cars by UK tuners in times ( 0-60 etc ) rather than dyno





hsb said:


> Would be epic to see this! Can this be arranged? Santa Pod?
> 
> Happens in the states all the time.





terry lloyd said:


> Can you ever see this happening - the one with the best results will be quids in for a while





goRt said:


> This sort of thing:
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=334410
> 
> Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk





terry lloyd said:


> Ish - tuner prepped cars at the event




We haven't yet fixed the event but SVM, JCR and Litchfields have all thrown their hats into the ring. You will notice Jurgen has also put his name down who has one of, if not the, fastest drag GT-Rs in Europe.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Evo9lution said:


> That's why I suggested before and after dyno results to determine the impact of modifications, not comparisons with another car / another tuner.
> 
> The thing is, is Santa Pod the real world given that many of these cars rarely, if ever, see a drag strip? When on the road, these cars are all so damn quick that you're typically limited by other cars, conditions and the road itself more than whether you have 800BHP or 650BHP (unless driving on the motorway maybe). As mentioned before, torque and tractability is more important on road driving anyway. I doubt that my drive home would be any quicker in the former >90% of the time, and only by a few seconds the other <10% of the time.
> 
> ...


Totally agree.

Trouble is people use peak power output as a measure of the tuner's ability, perhaps because the other metrics are not enough to enable them to make a decision.

It's a shame as peak power is pretty much meaningless and most of us cannot appreciate the skill in mapping and tell why one car is better than another unless we drive them both back to back. The graphs can be identical but additional fuel in one area combined with a touch more timing can make a car feel MUCH better than another identically powered car.

The reason I made a fuss of the power gain achieved with new testing on the ecutek version 5 software is that more power has been achieved without increasing boost. The 60 plus hours spent on a very advanced dyno is what yielded the gains in power, but the criteria for map changes is to yield an improvement, probably in feel and if possible area under the power curve.

The shame of it is that peak numbers sell cars. Much improved drivability is just not sexy enough.


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

lol at some of these replies. a dyno chart is not a good indication of real power. and its important because you paid for that power, if its not making the power in the dyno graph in real life on the street, you just paid for going slow. but seems like some people just like to add modifications just to say they are modded lol from the sounds of the replies.

note that the other aspects of drag racing will involve setup and suspension settings and tuning, that's why I mention just trap speeds, since the UK guys are not big into drag racing and getting those records or 8's or 1.2sec 60fts and what not.


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Evo9lution - Do you not think it would be interesting ? am quite sure if this was organized it would be a popular thread - personally i think 30-130 would be a good test


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Adamantium said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> Trouble is people used peak power output as a measure of the tuner's ability, perhaps because the other metrics are not enough to enable them to make a decision.
> 
> ...


I agree with this mostly.

ill add that a slipping clutch can show great power numbers but in the end on the street all those great numbers you saw in the dyno graph won't make that go fast due to the clutch. its like you paid for the parts but they won't do the job you paid them to do because the clutch is slipping (or other things). so are people okay with that? I don't think many even know that part of the equation.


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I'd be more interested by who can get a car round a sprint quicker than a drag only event.
Exactly the type of event Martin is organising.

I can't see how a one trick drag pony has any relevance at all to cars many of us in the UK use on the road and track. Where a car's balance, brakes and handling are equally important.

Banging a drum to be the best in a straight line on a special one off engine build most of us don't want doesn't impress me personally.


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

terry lloyd said:


> Evo9lution - Do you not think it would be interesting ? am quite sure if this was organized it would be a popular thread - personally i think 30-130 would be a good test


Don't get me wrong, it would be interesting. I have done 30-130mph at Marham before (in the Evo) and it was fun. I also think that it is _slightly_ more informative of real world accelerative performance than standing starts (i.e. tractability vs on-boost launches), as well as being much kinder on the transmission.

mindlessoath, you may lol at some of the posts but people other than yourself are also able to make valid points, even if you do not agree with them. You're coming at this from a very US-centric PoV ...

A dyno may not be reflective of true power, sure, but if the same dyno shows one car as having 675BHP and another having 650BHP, and the former has a slightly higher terminal speed than the latter, isn't the dyno accurately reflecting that the former is possibly slightly more powerful than the latter, even if the actual figures may not be 100% accurate? I'm pretty sure that terminal speed can be influenced by a great number of factors (atmospherics, track condition, tyre grip / wear, driver competency etc. - forgetting set-up as we're talking about road cars here in the main, not drag cars) so there's no guarantee that they will always accurately reflect true power either.

An engine dyno may be the best way to measure (crank) power, but who is going to drop their engine just to measure this? Very few most likely so the rest of us will have to rely on dyno or trap speed measures of power, and the inherent confounding variables that exist with each, depending on which side of the pond we reside or our own preference of measuring tool.


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

CT17 said:


> I'd be more interested by who can get a car round a sprint quicker than a drag only event.
> Exactly the type of event Martin is organising.
> 
> I can't see how a one trick drag pony has any relevance at all to cars many of us in the UK use on the road and track. Where a car's balance, brakes and handling are equally important.
> ...


Handling is a different thing - as is drag racing - i was thinking on the lines of stage 4.25 packages ( same hardware ) - same tyres ect - then its down to the map including traction control


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

CT17 said:


> I'd be more interested by who can get a car round a sprint quicker than a drag only event.
> Exactly the type of event Martin is organising.
> 
> I can't see how a one trick drag pony has any relevance at all to cars many of us in the UK use on the road and track. Where a car's balance, brakes and handling are equally important.
> ...


you sir do not get it. I'm more track focused guy. i understand your hate of american drag racing or whatever it is. but that's a daft response to facts.


----------



## Clogger (Sep 15, 2014)

What was thread about again ??


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

mindlessoath said:


> you sir do not get it. I'm more track focused guy. i understand your hate of american drag racing or whatever it is. but that's a daft response to facts.


I think you need to step away from the crack pipe old lad as it's you that don't appear to get it. Can't see where you think Richard has said that he 'hates' American drag racing, rather he just doesn't see the relevance of high horse power builds to the context of how most UK owners use their cars.

That's how I read it anyway but that's just my opinion.


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Clogger said:


> What was thread about again ??


Good point, let's cut all the Billy Bullshit and get back to the topic in question.


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

6jnc said:


> Do svm do warranties on the GTR's like litchfield do?
> 
> What BHP can I expect from a 4.25 at svm


Yes Sometimes 

650ish


Back to the bullshit


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Clogger said:


> What was thread about again ??


Preferred the unedited post


----------



## ISR36 (May 6, 2015)

6jnc said:


> Do svm do warranties on the GTR's like Litchfield do?
> 
> What BHP can I expect from a 4.25 at svm



The general consensus seems to be that SVM *do not* conclusively provide warranty on vehicles. 

SVM's 4.25 is advertised as *645hp*

In comparison:

Litchfield do 100% provide a warranty

A stage 4.25 from Litchfield will produce 660-690hp depending on the age of the car, fuel quality, luck.

Given your location, you're around 60Miles from SVM, and around 90 miles from Litchfield.

Would/Do I drive the extra 30 miles to have my GTR(s) worked on by Litchfield? *Yes.*


Carry on with the bullshit to do with drag races or whatever it was.


----------



## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

ISR36 said:


> Carry on with the bullshit to do with drag races or whatever it was.


No, please don't.


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

ISR36 said:


> The general consensus seems to be that SVM *do not* conclusively provide warranty on vehicles.
> 
> SVM's 4.25 is advertised as *645hp*
> 
> ...


The general consensus sadly isn't factual.

Svm offer the same warranty as Litcho. 
If you want an engine build warranted this too can be sorted via a third party insurer just like at litcho.

I'm sure the original poster and anybody looking into the same subject will pick up the phone and do their own research prior to making a decision.

Would I drive the extra miles for the sake of a manipulated dyno figure that in my opinion doesn't translate to being accurate on road...well I'll leave that for you too decide.

Speak to any company before hand, be it svm, litcho and the many others here and get a gest of what they're about, you will be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Clogger said:


> What was thread about again ??


Touché :bowdown1:


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Tabz,

I think manipulated dyno figure is going a bit far. 

I really wanted no part in this but that is below the belt.

You made claims of impartiality but accusations like the above don't reflect that.

You might want to consider that the dyno can be correctly used as a tool to improve the products and credit Iain with having the respect for his customers to not assume they are taken in by peak power figures. This is backed up by the power figures he has always quoted as having been achieved on v-power rather than race fuel. 

I think you'll also find Litchfield warranties are not third party underwritten.


----------



## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

TABZ said:


> The general consensus sadly isn't factual.
> 
> Svm offer the same warranty as Litcho.
> If you want an engine build warranted this too can be sorted via a third party insurer just like at litcho.
> ...


Manipulated dyno figure is not a very good thing to say - that could be taken as slander and land you in a lot of trouble - maybe think before you jump to the defence of Kevan and SVM by saying things you have no proof of...


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Adamantium said:


> Tabz,
> 
> I think manipulated dyno figure is going a bit far.
> 
> ...



Adam I agree the Dyno is a fantastic tool to help gather info and aid with development. My point which seems to be missed; I'm a firm believer that Dyno figures are not a true indication of the stated power and rarely translate the same figures on road. Given the number of variants and factors it's difficult to say that a Dyno figure is 100% correct hence my 'manipulated' comment. My own car made a ridiculous figure (same Dyno Takamo used) and IMO it's more a case of wanting to see/hear preferential figures, which is fine if obtaining a reletively fair analysis of performance but not something I take as gospel. 

Reading back; maybe not the best choice of word on my part but it was meant as an observation not a snipe. Not undermining Litchfield or their customers, I'm an admirer of any form of development R35 related and as such my apologies if any offence may have been caused, that wasn't the intention of my post, I'm not wanting a my tuner vs your tuner debate here.
I hope Svm and their customers are shown the same level of respect and comments kept tasteful and constructive instead of slanderous (as been suggested) or abusive.

In regard to warranty, I was referring to the engines being insured via third party? Im sure any engine failure or issue would require a great deal of back ground checks, analysis and reports prior to any warranty claim being accepted. Usually isn't worth the paper it's written on and often the blame is always passed on, at least that's my experience of engine failure and warranties. 
Maybe you can clarify Litchfields engine warranty for future referance and anybody reading this.



Henry 145 said:


> Manipulated dyno figure is not a very good thing to say - that could be taken as slander and land you in a lot of trouble - maybe think before you jump to the defence of Kevan and SVM by saying things you have no proof of...



Please see above. None of my comments are intended as a defence for Kevan or Svm, (why would they need to be), rather my own opinion based on my experience and dealings with certain people and scenarios. Again my apologies if any offence caused, that was not the purpose of my post.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Manipulated suggests intentional deception.

Do not compare MSL's dynojet to the Maha.

Use of a power run done to produce bragging rights using the infamously over reading and cheap inertia drum dynojet does not invalidate the scalpel equivalent tool that is the top end Maha.

It's like saying vw are cars, their co2 readings are nonsense therefore no manufacturer can be trusted on anything to do with cars.

Believe what you want but don't make unsubstantiated claims based on false logic, it's beneath you when your contributions are usually so much more valuable.


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Sorry but not going to get tangled up with a Dyno debate. I have my view/opinion and you have yours.
Funnily Msl would defend their set up with a similar argument but that's another story for another thread/day.

As long as posts are constructive, informative and educational to a degree then obvious bias can be forgiven.


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

To be fair Litchfields dyno plots are possibly the best i have ever seen super smooth and far from a peak figure then tail off rapidly unlike some i have seen - imho i think the issue is this forum has turned into a walking advertisement for litchfield and it winds people up - i am sure most stage 4 plus cars put together side by side on the road by the good tuners there will be little in it whatever the dyno says


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

No offence Tabz, but it's not a debate. There are facts which define the difference between them. The dynojet compensation factor is well documented as are the pitfalls of using an inertia drum rather than Eddie current retarder to measure torque. The inertia dynojet measures acceleration of a known mass drum, it cannot be used for steady state tuning as without acceleration it cannot calculate torque.

If you knew the relative uselessness of an inertia dynojet figure you'd never bother to visit one and certainly wouldn't expect its numbers to have any bearing on the truth.

Like I said, not a debate, the fudge factor historically introduced to help them sell their dynos in the motorbike community is not something they deny. They produced genuine numbers that were realistic but weren't inline with expectation and so tuners didn't buy them because customers were disappointed. The same factor remains in the software.

It comes down to pleasing customers who want big numbers, if that includes you, stick with dynojet.


----------



## ISR36 (May 6, 2015)

TABZ said:


> The general consensus sadly isn't factual.
> 
> Svm offer the same warranty as Litcho.
> If you want an engine build warranted this too can be sorted via a third party insurer just like at litcho.
> ...





TABZ said:


> Yes they do but instead of taking £1400 odd of your money they look after your pocket if the car was to ever fail.
> Best to call them and discuss.
> 
> In regard to stage 4 Dyno figures, take them with a pinch of salt, half the time they are manipulated Dyno figures and make little or no odds on the road.


Promising to look after you if anything goes wrong is a far cry from a warranty. Unless its in writing, it doesn't mean shit. 

Coupled with the responses from other members on this forum, until you can conclusively prove otherwise, I'm going to stick with my original assessment that *SVM do not conclusively provide a warranty*.

A manipulated dyno? Fortunately others have responded to this already, so I don't have to - but what a ridiculous thing to say about Litchfield.

I've never had a bad dealing with SVM personally, but their customers on here are so consistently overly defensive of SVM and overly offensive of other tuners, that it probably does more harm than good for SVM.


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Adam no offence taken and I know the history behind the whole Dyno fudge factor malarky. Im not particularly interested in a Dyno figure and the only reason I used Msl (fantastic bunch of lads by the way) was to help determine a glitch I was encountering during dialling in boost; safer on Dyno then on road, hence a brilliant tool to have at your disposal.

Terry I agree litchos plots certainly look good and to be fair if Takamo's car is anything to go by then they certainly perform well too.
I think my comment is being taken out of context. But glad I'm not the only one that can see the obvious Litchfield bias. If you question the common narrative apparently you're an Svm sympathiser lol, why is the GTR scene so clicky like that? We pay a tuning shop that offer a service, all this extra praise at times is laughable. 

ISR36 your last comment is so ironic dont you think or is it based on selective reading. It only goes to prove what I was saying earlier. I can't see where any Svm customer has been defensive. The post title is SVM, yet all I see is the Litchfield crew commenting, funny that as you won't see the vice versa. 
Again not interested in a tuner war but please at least be balanced in your views and replies.

Oh and when my build is complete I can assure you it will be guaranteed.

Glwts of your car by the way. Maybe stick a Lichfield warranty on it and hopefully that will sell it at the right price instead of you having to deal with low ballers.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Tabz, can you please explain what you mean by manipulated if not the commonly accepted meaning.


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

I would love to give you an example but that would mean naming a particular car/person which I don't have his permission to do.

Again not what this post is about but you now seen stuck at that point.


----------



## AnEvoGuy (Aug 17, 2011)

Can anyone say how the Maha arrives at a flywheel figure? As from my limited understanding most other dynos would measure wheel power and then a correction factor would be applied to get the flywheel figure as this is what most customers wanted. 

I have always thought this approach didn't make sense as double the power would double the transmission losses.


----------



## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

a sideline debate perhaps whilst people take a short break from dyno and tuner bashing.

The GT-R is one of the few cars where I do actually look at peak power (in addition to area under the curve) to see just what a tuner can do. Any fool on the GT-R can make a lot of mid range torque - potentially to the destruction of the engine - so I look for smooth controlled torque figure and then what the tuner is able to do, to safely hold the torque up as high as possible at the top end of the rev band.

It is this, that Litchfield appear to have unlocked without just attempting to run more boost. Their cars are fast and smooth and appear to be reliable at stage 4.25 and below


----------



## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Adamantium said:


> Tabz, can you please explain what you mean by manipulated if not the commonly accepted meaning.


Adam drop it its just getting carried away with a miss word / quote / mistake you do the same sometimes

ie: "That translates to about 0.2 instead of 0.4 seconds spooling time which is a world of difference"

When measured by turbo speed sensor it does not


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Terry,

The difference is huge, one is my feeling and assessment of something I have experienced. It could be wrong it's an opinion, and as yet that guy, can't remember his name right now, hasn't described what exactly he measured that he thinks doesn't support my observation.

Tabz comment is an accusation of dishonesty and is arguably libellous. I don't mind if people don't agree with or believe what I've said, I would mind if someone was questioning my integrity.


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

Adam my response (dont know why it has bothered you so much, especially considering there are more damning statements made against other tuners) was in direct response to ISR36 post regarding stage. 4 figures as a mean of justifying why somebody would choose one tuner over the other. 

If you read my earlier post you will see that I suggested anybody thinking of going stage x? Should at least speak to any company prior to spending big money and satisfy themselves as apposed to going of what's qouted on a forum.


Why or how you claim it's dishonest or possible libellous is simply making a mountain out of a mole, have I accidentally touched a nerve? Seriously get over it!


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I consider Iain to be a friend and your choice of words labelled him dishonest. Yes it touched a nerve, it's a very strong accusation.

I suspect it is a mountain out of a molehill because you don't understand your own words.


----------



## TABZ (Apr 30, 2003)

I understand my words perfectly and stick to my opinion of Dyno figures being a good indicator and a helpful tool to help establish power, performance, diagnostics, improvements etc, but no way do I think they translate the same punch on road.

Again I think you're taking my comment out of context and I did apologies to save grace but I do find it odd that you're adamant I've made an accusation which I have not, it's simply the way you have translated it.

Stick to the subject instead of going off on a tandem.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

If you are not making an accusation, then I have no axe to grind. Just difficult to read manipulated dyno results any other way.

I'm not sure what the topic at hand actually is. If the OP wants to give SVM a go, I say go for it. Good guys, enthusiasts and petrol heads with fantastic facilities.


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

ffs's. this thread is washed.

don't read into dyno numbers. if you have a worn clutch you can put down great numbers but not put the performance down on the street. that's just one example tho. its a tool nothing more. hence why trap time will give you real world data. Nissan does this for there 2.7sec 60mph times on a race track not a drag strip. 

adam is right that extra time tuning can help with drivability. a few tuners spend the time to do this but not everyone and less tuners can do this via etune.

warranty... you pay to play folks. glad those two have some sort of warranty.


----------



## Warnhammar (Aug 21, 2015)

This will be a never ending debate. 

Peak power figures on a dyno don't necessarily translate to a faster car on the road. Results vary dyno to dyno and measurement conditions will always vary day to day and car to car. 

Drag racing isn't a great measure either. Things like driver skill, surface quality, suspension etc. all create variability that can't be factored out. 

Most people ignore the time element involved in dyno results and just look at peak power forgetting that it's probably more important to look at the total surface area below the curve. Early onslaught of torque and maximising that as you move up the rev range(time) is typically what makes a car genuinely faster. 

Let your bum be the judge and remember that the GTR wasn't built to drive in straight lines!! 

My two pence worth.


----------



## ISR36 (May 6, 2015)

TABZ said:


> ISR36 your last comment is so ironic dont you think or is it based on selective reading. It only goes to prove what I was saying earlier. I can't see where any Svm customer has been defensive. The post title is SVM, yet all I see is the Litchfield crew commenting, funny that as you won't see the vice versa.
> Again not interested in a tuner war but please at least be balanced in your views and replies.
> 
> Oh and when my build is complete I can assure you it will be guaranteed.


I probably didn't explain as well as I could've Tabz, I meant in general on these forums I've got that impression about some SVM customers, and SVM themselves (albeit a rather long time ago now).

I'm not slating SVM whatsoever, they do big builds very, very well it would appear. However, in regards to 4.25 which is what the OP asked, I do feel Litchfield currently has the upper hand, and to suggest that their figures are manipulated is in my opinion somewhat an aggressive stance. Much in the same way that a couple years back I'd of argued that SVM were getting more performance out of a Stage 4/4.25 than Litchfield were!

If your build is warranted, then good - but I can't find anything on SVM's site nor any of the responses here that suggests that SVM provide a warranty.


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Trevgtr said:


> I'm 100% sure SVM started a thread over a year ago announcing they will be offering warranties. It should be easily found with a search if anyone wants to bother


OK, so no-one wanted to bother, here is the thread stating warranties are available on all SVM work...but I can't find the actual SVM warranty thread that was posted just after, maybe it's been deleted?


http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/271345-svm-offers-cobb-performance-protection.html


----------



## Bobby dazzler (Jan 10, 2014)

Old 4th January 2016, 08:20 PM #28 (permalink)
Bobby dazzler
Bobby dazzler is unaware they can edit their status Edit
GTR.co.uk seasoned Member

Bobby dazzler's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 19
I do love reading these threads there great to get the fanboys going***55357;***56832;

In reply to the op's question 
Do SVM offer a warranty like Litchfields 
Yes they do but as far as I no they will warrant any stage powered car
How do I know 
I have one it was £1200 + a couple of hour inspection on my stage 4.5 
As far as I know it cover all the things Litchfields does 
My advice give Kev or Amar a call I'm sure they will inform you what they can do for you
__________________
????????????????

I did


----------

