# Litchfield Stage 4?



## McFreedom (Apr 28, 2011)

Hey guys,

I'm contemplating going from Stage 1 that I have now to Stage 4, in the next 3-5 weeks.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience that could help me make up my mind?

Cheers


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Im in the same position, but cannot decide between litchfield, svm or getting a mix of the parts and doing it my way


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## Jasper013 (Aug 16, 2011)

Have been researching this myself - according to Litchfield site stage 4 should see you good for ~620 bhp and the feedback I've picked up via the forum is that its well worth while. By all accounts the stock internals are good for ~650-700bhp so hopefully no issues with metal components deciding they want to escape the block!
I'm heading down to see Iain in April and I'mm 99% sure it will be the Stage 4 option I go for. Will chat things over with Iain when I'm down there. Travelling a fair distance to see him so it would be mad not to take full advantage


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Im definitely going for the circlips though!!


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## Jasper013 (Aug 16, 2011)

grahamc said:


> Im in the same position, but cannot decide between litchfield, svm or getting a mix of the parts and doing it my way


Did I see you on the Supra site? It was Paul Whiffin's project car that got me thinking about exploding blocks! But apart from his cars chequered past I've not heard of many modded cars getting in to trouble. Thankfully.


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## Jasper013 (Aug 16, 2011)

grahamc said:


> Im definitely going for the circlips though!!


Did cross my mind but decided I'll tackle those if I decide to take things beyond 600-620.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Jasper013 said:


> Did I see you on the Supra site? It was Paul Whiffin's project car that got me thinking about exploding blocks! But apart from his cars chequered past I've not heard of many modded cars getting in to trouble. Thankfully.


Yes  quite a few of us floating around 



Jasper013 said:


> Did cross my mind but decided I'll tackle those if I decide to take things beyond 600-620.


I thought stage 4 was 620...


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

We would recommend circlips if you go over 700bhp or are planning to launch the car a lot. I have never seen a UK have a circlip failure  Like wise we have tuned hundreds of GTR's from 570-750bhp and not had any engine failures.


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## Jasper013 (Aug 16, 2011)

grahamc said:


> Yes  quite a few of us floating around
> 
> 
> 
> I thought stage 4 was 620...


Should be by all accounts - was factoring in the 1% chance I might only go for the stage 2 at 590ish !


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## Jasper013 (Aug 16, 2011)

Litchfield said:


> We would recommend circlips if you go over 700bhp or are planning to launch the car a lot. I have never seen a UK have a circlip failure  Like wise we have tuned hundreds of GTR's from 570-750bhp and not had any engine failures.


Thanks Iain, happy to be reassured. Sight of a block with a non OEM viewing portal did make me twitch slightly.


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

Jasper013 said:


> Have been researching this myself - according to Litchfield site stage 4 should see you good for ~620 bhp and the feedback I've picked up via the forum is that its well worth while. By all accounts the stock internals are good for ~650-700bhp so hopefully no issues with metal components deciding they want to escape the block!
> I'm heading down to see Iain in April and I'mm 99% sure it will be the Stage 4 option I go for. Will chat things over with Iain when I'm down there. Travelling a fair distance to see him so it would be mad not to take full advantage


i have the fastest stock turbo GT-R in UK/Europe 10.4 seconds at crail and same at Santa pod. all work done by Duncan @ Hyper tech (who looks after alot Scottish gtr's), and mapped by ben gtc. hard use for 3 years, 100+ launches, TOTB etc..

Hypertech
Falkirk
FK4 2BW
Telephone : 01324 812 212


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## *MrB* (Dec 2, 2009)

You won't go wrong with Iain Litchfield. Professional and helpful with a lot of GT-R experience. Superb facilities and R&D to go with it. I travel 2 and 1/2 hrs each way for servicing and tuning and tbh I would travel further if I had to :thumbsup:

I'm sure you'd be more than pleased with stage 4


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## McFreedom (Apr 28, 2011)

Does that mean if I do decide to go for Stage 4 that I should be doing the cir clips as well?

I do want to do the gearbox software update aswel just incase that has a bearing on if I have to do them or not? 

I've used Litchfields many times now, I know how good they are.

Has anyone had the cir clips changed, if so how much does it cost to change them?


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Stage 4 is my ideal state of tune. Was hoping to do it straight away but things just kept going wrong at home lol meaning no spare cash. I will certainly be getting a Stage 1 soon and will visit Litchfields for sure ; )


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

McFreedom said:


> Does that mean if I do decide to go for Stage 4 that I should be doing the cir clips as well?
> 
> I do want to do the gearbox software update aswel just incase that has a bearing on if I have to do them or not?
> 
> ...


Read post 8 above!


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## McFreedom (Apr 28, 2011)

Does anyone know how big a job changing the cir clips is? Maybe some one that's had it done?


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

It's a gearbox out job, but litchfields have it down to a tee.

Iain advised me not to bother for under 700bhp.


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Dodson Circlips, upgraded magnets, solenoid clean, oil pump clean, new oil and wheel alignment (rear subframe comes out) is £1,495

Regards

Iain


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I went from stage 1 to stage 4 and have to say it is good.
Having emptied the piggy bank with the anti-roll bars and better brakes at the same time as the stage 4 I decided (on Iains expert opinion) to leave the circlips for now and do them later.

Car has been fine, but I am planning some Santa Pod action this year, so I'll get the circlips done before that... just in case.
It could well be fine, but you have that nagging doubt (well, I do) if you are going to be doing standing starts on a grippy surface over and over.

Thing is, the more power you get the more it costs to go up to the next level each time.
Having looked at the costs stage 4 is pretty sensible for me. The car has gone from 470 bhp to around 610. I'd have to spend about double again to get the same on top, which I can't use most of the time anyway.
So for now I'm concentrating on handling and driver training.

There are other companies out there, but I went for Litchfield because he is a gentleman, comes across very well, doesn't try to sell you anything. And having the whole pricing structure on the website means you can look through all the options and decide what you want without asking a load of daft questions.
And the bhp figures are shown too, so you know exactly what you are getting where I'm not even sure if other tuners numbering systems even match the bhp figures. It may only be on race fuel or something ???


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

The clips are not required really unless you are tracking or going big power and launching. I opted to change mine over for some peace of mind...bit of an insurance policy really.

Cant recommend Litchfields enough....great guys, great service and I actually look forward to the services for the run over and the chat when there. 

CT17 has it spot on....best money can spend is on driver training....having seen what Michal Krumm could do in a stock car its not more power I need!


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Litchfield said:


> Dodson Circlips, upgraded magnets, solenoid clean, oil pump clean, new oil and wheel alignment (rear subframe comes out) is £1,495
> 
> Regards
> 
> Iain


Hi Iain, which clips are replaced in that package?

Anders


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

That will save me some money then


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Anders, we change all 3 which are the main shafts and the fwd shaft.
Will email you tomorrow as everything has arrived 
Regards
Iain


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Litchfield said:


> Anders, we change all 3 which are the main shafts and the fwd shaft.
> Will email you tomorrow as everything has arrived
> Regards
> Iain


Nice one, might have these fitted when I'm down for the front splitter.

Anders


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## Millwallmart (Jan 17, 2012)

'approximately' how much is it to jump from stage 1 to stage 4 at Litchfields?


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## Jasper013 (Aug 16, 2011)

professor matt said:


> i have the fastest stock turbo GT-R in UK/Europe 10.4 seconds at crail and same at Santa pod. all work done by Duncan @ Hyper tech (who looks after alot Scottish gtr's), and mapped by ben gtc. hard use for 3 years, 100+ launches, TOTB etc..
> 
> Hypertech
> Falkirk
> ...


Have heard snippets about Hypertech and to be fair its all sounding good but with a MY11 still being looked after in the medium term by HPC (3yr service pack) its the mapping and tweaks that I'm after. If that was on the cards closer to home of course I'd be up for that but as things stand I'm being won over by the consistently good feedback I'm picking up from the outfits south of the border.
Are there any plans for a meet at Hypertech to get some of these Scottish GTR's on Duncans RR for a power run session? I suspect there are one or two GTR newbies around who would would be up for this excuse for a get together.

P.S. (and to get us back on track) - looking forward to meeting Iain on the 12th April for my upgrade.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

*Let's keep it on track*

OK then, this thread has been cleaned up, 75 posts removed and an hour of my life I'll never get back.

Can we please refrain from the personal insults, name calling, thread crapping, piss taking and pack mentality that ruined this thread and caused the cleanup?

To the person who likes to dish out the most insults without _ever_, and _I mean_ ever, contributing anything else to the forum, you know you're on your last warning.

Traders posting in threads about other traders - come on, surely some self imposed boundaries have got to be considered?

If it starts again, I'll clean it up, hand out some infractions and possibly the odd 7 day holiday if it's needed. Play nicely from now on:thumbsup:

Thanks,

TAZZ


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## McFreedom (Apr 28, 2011)

This thread got way to agro!! Sorry if I asked the wrong questions


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

You ddn't do anything wrong.


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## McFreedom (Apr 28, 2011)

I only wanted a bit of advice, and it turned out to be a full out war!!


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## baileyconstruct (Feb 1, 2011)

Hi. I was there yesterday for a service and was impressed by Iain's knowledge and non pushy sales. He never tried to sell me anything and only gave me information on what I asked and just generally chatted about cars. 

My car is running at around stage 4 with the exception of the downpipes missing and if it wasn't already tuned I would be round to litchfields with my hard earnt money for a stage 4. 

Give him a call and make the jump ha ha


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## thunderball (Nov 28, 2011)

Can anyone with a stage 4 please advise on your insurance situation? Have you declared the mods, and if so how did affect your premium? Also, can you recommend any mod-friendly insurers (tried some suggested elsewhere in here and received silly quotes of circa £5k!)

I am planning on going to stage 4 or 5 at he end of the year when my current policy expires but being upfront insurance-wise is causing concern?


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

thunderball said:


> Can anyone with a stage 4 please advise on your insurance situation? Have you declared the mods, and if so how did affect your premium? Also, can you recommend any mod-friendly insurers (tried some suggested elsewhere in here and received silly quotes of circa £5k!)
> 
> I am planning on going to stage 4 or 5 at he end of the year when my current policy expires but being upfront insurance-wise is causing concern?


Competition Car Insurance


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## GRowsell (Feb 6, 2007)

I have the stage 4, along with uprated ARB's, bigger brakes and gearbox cooler... and my insurers (NFU) didn't alter the premium.


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## baileyconstruct (Feb 1, 2011)

thunderball said:


> Can anyone with a stage 4 please advise on your insurance situation? Have you declared the mods, and if so how did affect your premium? Also, can you recommend any mod-friendly insurers (tried some suggested elsewhere in here and received silly quotes of circa £5k!)
> 
> I am planning on going to stage 4 or 5 at he end of the year when my current policy expires but being upfront insurance-wise is causing concern?


Im 29 and with admiral with all declared. I pay 1150 for my premium and it made about 200 quid difference when declared.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

GRowsell,

Who are NFU? Can't think.


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## HSimon (Jun 4, 2008)

Adamantium said:


> GRowsell,
> 
> Who are NFU? Can't think.


Adam,
I think its National Farmers union ?.


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## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

HSimon said:


> Adam,
> I think its National Farmers union ?.


Correct mate


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I heard that anyone can join that with relative ease. Any truth?


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

On another note, any stage 4 owners near London?

I'd like to hear the downpipes.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> On another note, any stage 4 owners near London?
> 
> I'd like to hear the downpipes.


I'll have downpipes fitted and mapped by the end of the month. Live not far from Richmond.


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## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

Adamantium said:


> I heard that anyone can join that with relative ease. Any truth?


Pretty much the same as any other insurance company now mate. They do animals, homes, cars etc. I think you become a member when you take out a policy.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Always worth a quote, though admiral multicar is proving good. I like cci for trackday cover but it's probably £600 a year more.

Anders, Richmond is easily near enough. Would you be ok to meet up soon? Are we talking a Litchfield stage 4 will a full milltek system?


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Adamantium said:


> Always worth a quote, though admiral multicar is proving good. I like cci for trackday cover but it's probably £600 a year more.
> 
> Anders, Richmond is easily near enough. Would you be ok to meet up soon? Are we talking a Litchfield stage 4 will a full milltek system?


CCI where £400 a year less than Admiral for me


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## GRowsell (Feb 6, 2007)

Adamantium said:


> I heard that anyone can join that with relative ease. Any truth?


It's an insurance company for anyone. You don't need to be a farmer any more than you'd need to be a Scottish Widow or an Admiral  They actually came top in the _Which_ polls for customer satisfaction.



Adamantium said:


> ... any stage 4 owners near London?... I'd like to hear the downpipes.


 I'm stage 4 without the downpipes? And I have gone back to a silenced Y pipe as I felt too boy-racer/anti-social...



GTaaaaaarrrrrr! said:


> I think you become a member when you take out a policy.


You have the choice, which can give a discount, but my mate who is a builder didn't with his van... and NFU gave him the cheapest quote.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

CCI for me with everything declared..Excellent service from these guys with great prices with track day cover thrown in too:thumbsup:


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## thunderball (Nov 28, 2011)

Funnily enough it was CCI that quoted me £5K! I pay less than £500 with Admiral, and when I asked they said they didn't cover modified cars?

Thanks for your answers chaps, you have given me something to go at there.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

thunderball said:


> Funnily enough it was CCI that quoted me £5K! I pay less than £500 with Admiral, and when I asked they said they didn't cover modified cars?
> 
> Thanks for your answers chaps, you have given me something to go at there.


Very strange...I was with Admiral and they wanted to pull my pants down this year being more than £400 more than CCI


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Stevie76 said:


> Very strange...I was with Admiral and they wanted to pull my pants down this year being more than £400 more than CCI


Same here


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> Anders, Richmond is easily near enough. Would you be ok to meet up soon? Are we talking a Litchfield stage 4 will a full milltek system?


The set up I'll be running is GTC cast downpipes, Miltek resonated centre, OEM rear exhaust, GTC intakes, Litchfield 1100cc injectors, twin fuel pumps, AMS FMIC. It's not a Litchfield stage 4, more of a random bunch of parts chosen by me.

The mods are being fitted during the w/c 19th March, could meet on the Sat or I'll be at this charity dyno day on the Sun.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/161860-charity-dyno-day-macmillan-cancer-research.html#post1587603

Anders


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Sounds like a plan.

Any reason why you've got the stock rear section as once you switch out the downpipes and y pipe section, theres no sound deadening inthe exhaust. I'd expect that to be really loud.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> Sounds like a plan.
> 
> Any reason why you've got the stock rear section as once you switch out the downpipes and y pipe section, theres no sound deadening inthe exhaust. I'd expect that to be really loud.


It may be too load, but won't know unless I give it a go. I thought the OEM exhaust had some sort of resonator/silencer judging from the diagram. For track days I'll install the Miltek tail pipe silencers.


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

Adamantium said:


> On another note, any stage 4 owners near London?
> 
> I'd like to hear the downpipes.


Pop down anytime, I have downpipes, Whifbitz ti y pipe with mid box and stock back box. Perfect for me.. Reduces egts, back pressure, only 98decibels and flows enough for 625bhp

Ryan


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Sorry, I should qualify what I said.

There's sound deadening in the stock back section, but most of the reduction is in the y pipe. 

If you fit an aftermarket y pipe such as milltek the car gets a lot louder. If you then put a milltek back section on it gets much quieter again.

Your set up will combine the loudest bits. I guess if yours isn't too loud I'll be fine with down pipes. 

Looking forward to hearing it.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Not long and I'll know, I can always fit the Miltek rear section or try the twin y-pipe silencers from the race system.

Ryan, see you next week for mapping.

Anders


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

ryan,

where are you based?

Be good to chat too!


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Anders?

ecutek or syvecs?


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## rob wild (Jul 30, 2007)

Ryan.g said:


> Pop down anytime, I have downpipes, Whifbitz ti y pipe with mid box and stock back box. Perfect for me.. Reduces egts, back pressure, only 98decibels and flows enough for 625bhp
> 
> Ryan


Hey Ryan was thinking about a rear exhaust (whiffbitz, Miltek etc) but worried about the noise for the track and stuff. But would you keep the stock rear and go for down pipes instead (if you were me?)


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Anders_R35 said:


> Not long and I'll know, I can always fit the Miltek rear section or try the twin y-pipe silencers from the race system.
> 
> Ryan, see you next week for mapping.
> 
> Anders


I don't see the point in retaining the stock rear system at all. When I replaced my Milltek non-resonated Y-pipe + stock rear with the Akrapovic Evolution set up, the car gained 24hp peak hp (30hp max delta lower down) with no retuning!

So the rear system is restrictive, as well as being heavy. Just one look at the unnecessary tight 180 degree bends would suggest that the gases have a lot more work to do than they would through a decent system, e.g. Milltek/Akro etc.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I specifically went for the Milltek because it's track day safe.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Stevie76 said:


> CCI for me with everything declared..Excellent service from these guys with great prices with track day cover thrown in too:thumbsup:


Wonder how much an apres ban cost is going to be ;-( going to find out in anticipation today just to upset myself more.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

ROG350Z said:


> Wonder how much an apres ban cost is going to be ;-( going to find out in anticipation today just to upset myself more.


Be careful what info u give if you're phoning for quotes, a lot is held now days.

IMO a ban won't add as much as you might think, especially if its for a one off offence as opposed to a DD or a totting up.

I know how you're feeling, but be positive!


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Don't alert anyone Rog. If it's insurance etc... it's all recorded!


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

MIKEGTR said:


> Be careful what info u give if you're phoning for quotes, a lot is held now days.
> 
> IMO a ban won't add as much as you might think, especially if its for a one off offence as opposed to a DD or a totting up.
> 
> I know how you're feeling, but be positive!


Blimey I don't often agree with Mike, but absolutely, what were you thinking?!

Plus don't even think about the ticket/ban until if it happens. Absolutely nothing you can do about it now and hopefully you'll be ok anyway.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

David.Yu said:


> I don't see the point in retaining the stock rear system at all. When I replaced my Milltek non-resonated Y-pipe + stock rear with the Akrapovic Evolution set up, the car gained 24hp peak hp (30hp max delta lower down) with no retuning!
> 
> So the rear system is restrictive, as well as being heavy. Just one look at the unnecessary tight 180 degree bends would suggest that the gases have a lot more work to do than they would through a decent system, e.g. Milltek/Akro etc.


Surely the downpipe cats are the biggest restriction, especially while running higher boost levels than stock? I'm sure the power figures you mention above will be matched removing the cats with the added benefit of less heat build up?

The bottom line is, I won't know unless I try downpipes with stock exhaust. I can always add the rear section later.

In the mean time the money I'm not spending on the rear exhaust has been allocated to an AMS FMIC which should help retain power in the summer months.

Anders


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Anders_R35 said:


> Surely the downpipe cats are the biggest restriction, especially while running higher boost levels than stock? I'm sure the power figures you mention above will be matched removing the cats with the added benefit of less heat build up?
> 
> The bottom line is, I won't know unless I try downpipes with stock exhaust. I can always add the rear section later.
> 
> ...


Well your car was 15/20bhp up on standard with just the ypipe, so from that I assumed that the ypipe was the biggest restriction.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Anders_R35 said:


> Surely the downpipe cats are the biggest restriction, especially while running higher boost levels than stock? I'm sure the power figures you mention above will be matched removing the cats with the added benefit of less heat build up?
> 
> The bottom line is, I won't know unless I try downpipes with stock exhaust. I can always add the rear section later.
> 
> ...


I agree you are doing it in a sensible sequence if you're aiming to eventually replace the rear system.
But for those aiming to get 620hp or so, then the labour involved in replacing the downpipes -plus the cost of the downpipes themselves- is not far off the rear system which is PROVEN to be track day compliant.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

grahamc said:


> Well your car was 15/20bhp up on standard with just the ypipe, so from that I assumed that the ypipe was the biggest restriction.


I think most of the power was Mizuno's 'GTR Honour' (free power). I think I read a post by David Yu where the difference in actual power from the y-pipe was 6bhp. That dyno run was on a 1300 mile engine too, not even loosened up properly.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

David.Yu said:


> I agree you are doing it in a sensible sequence if you're aiming to eventually replace the rear system.
> But for those aiming to get 620hp or so, then the labour involved in replacing the downpipes -plus the cost of the downpipes themselves- is not far off the rear system which is PROVEN to be track day compliant.


Need to work out the full cost when it's installed:

Miltek y-pipe (resonated)
GTC cast downpipes
Wrap for downpipes
Downpipe installation labour
Miltek tailpipe silencers (to make it track legal, I hope)


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Anders_R35 said:


> I think most of the power was Mizuno's 'GTR Honour' (free power). I think I read a post by David Yu where the difference in actual power from the y-pipe was 6bhp. That dyno run was on a 1300 mile engine too, not even loosened up properly.


Yes that is true. I wrote about it here: Auto-Journals / Journals / Nissan / R35 / GT-R / What power does a GT-R really produce?

RichGT's car was completely standard, mine just had the Milltek non-resonated Y-pipe.

However as I think people are accepting now, the actual "bhp" is not necessarily accurate, even on Charlie's RR, but it is the difference that is interesting.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Anders_R35 said:


> I think most of the power was Mizuno's 'GTR Honour' (free power). I think I read a post by David Yu where the difference in actual power from the y-pipe was 6bhp. That dyno run was on a 1300 mile engine too, not even loosened up properly.


Have to agree and a lot of people use the "press BHP" as the starting figure. Mine is supposed to be 485 standard and ran 499.5 at 1200miles, completely stock. 



David.Yu said:


> Yes that is true. I wrote about it here: Auto-Journals / Journals / Nissan / R35 / GT-R / What power does a GT-R really produce?
> 
> RichGT's car was completely standard, mine just had the Milltek non-resonated Y-pipe.
> 
> However as I think people are accepting now, the actual "bhp" is not necessarily accurate, even on Charlie's RR, but it is the difference that is interesting.


I only use it for reference...


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