# Death Rattle-how often does it reappear?



## Razzele (Apr 30, 2010)

Hello Guys,

I purchased a 2010 DMG new last april. I use it as my daily driver and as a result have clocked up 22k. 


At its 12k mile service my car was diagnosed with a rattle. I was told that the main prop shaft had a considerable amount of play in it and the car could not be driven until it was repaired.

I think it was the bell housing that was replaced. 3 weeks later (yes 3 weeks!!) my car was ready. It sounded a little quieter but still far from rattle free. Now at 22k the rattle is audible again. 

I took it over to my friends garage to replace the rear pads today. Whilst up there I thought I'd check the prop shafts for play. Comically the main shaft seems to have considerable movement when pulled forward and back? Whilst the smaller prop shaft is rigid?

Is that normal?


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

Hi Razzele, the 2009+ Models, AFAIK, have a different bearing system, allowing an amount of plunge/play front and back. Any up and down, or side to side movement however is a conclusive sign of the notorious bellhousing bearing wear, where either of the 2 bearings supporting the live propshaft or the transmission flywheel will become loose in the alloy bellhousing. The pre-2009 cars also suffered with this, we think Nissan made some design changes for the 2009+ Models, but there are still incidences of sub 20,000 mile GTR's with loose propshafts.

Some photos of a bellhousing issue, showing signs of wear on the bearing/s
Here

We can fix these, we offer a service whereby we remove the bellhousing, CNC machine out the bearing areas, pressfit a CNC Machined Sleeve into the bearing areas, and then install a new uprated bearing either end, which prevent the bearings wearing into the alloy bellhousing, which will cause a viscious circle, the bearing can start to spin relative to the bellhousing causing more and more wear.

Sorry to hear you are having problems. Pop the car into us and we can have a look for you quickly to see if there is too much play still.

And in answer to your question as to how long it takes to appear, it can happen between 10,000 and 20,000 miles (as seen on a number of cars here at CPR). When a complete replacement bellhousing is fitted by Nissan, the issue still remains, where the alloy bellhousing bearing holders will start wearing all over again, Nissan don't offer a permanent fix.


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

Here is a short video of the CNC Machining Process on a Bellhousing, with damaged material being removed prior to installing the Steel Sleeve


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Razzele said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> I purchased a 2010 DMG new last april. I use it as my daily driver and as a result have clocked up 22k.
> 
> ...


Get yourself back down to the HPC that did the work and do not part with any cash as this will be covered under warranty.


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

CarPlanetRacing said:


> When a complete replacement bellhousing is fitted by Nissan, the issue still remains, where the alloy bellhousing bearing holders will start wearing all over again, Nissan don't offer a permanent fix.


But Nissan do offer a warranty, so as the car was April 2010 just take it back to Nissan and get them to fix it for free :thumbsup:


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## Razzele (Apr 30, 2010)

Thanks for your replies, I find it very frustrating that this car has been so under engineered in such a critical area.

CPR that is a really nice fix to the problem. Am I reading in your post that the my11 cars have a revised design that prevents this fault occurring and reoccurring??


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

Hi Razzele, 
We would be happy to offer a quick free inspection of the propshaft and give your opinion on the play (whether excessive or not in the critical planes), which may or may not mean you then would want to go back to the dealership who repaired it. Of course Nissan may keep swapping bellhousings under warranty, but the problem is not going to be resolved permanently by doing this. 
We haven't had a chance to look at a MY2011 bellhousing yet, so cannot comment if Nissan rectified the issue, all we know is that Pre and Post 2009 cars had different setups, but they didn't perfect the design in the Post 2009 car. Hopefully they have for the 2011 car.


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## Grimblin Gibbon (Jul 16, 2009)

CarPlanetRacing said:


> Here is a short video of the CNC Machining Process on a Bellhousing, with damaged material being removed prior to installing the Steel Sleeve


How do you prevent shrinkage of the cnc part due to thermal cycling of the disimilar metals (transmission is notorious for heating up!) 

Any creap due to cycling will put you back at square one in the long term and would nescitate either a new housing or a further rebore! :nervous:


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

CarPlanetRacing said:


> Hi Razzele, the 2009+ Models, AFAIK, have a different bearing system, allowing an amount of plunge/play front and back. Any up and down, or side to side movement however is a conclusive sign of the notorious bellhousing bearing wear, where either of the 2 bearings supporting the live propshaft or the transmission flywheel will become loose in the alloy bellhousing. The pre-2009 cars also suffered with this, we think Nissan made some design changes for the 2009+ Models, but there are still incidences of sub 20,000 mile GTR's with loose propshafts.
> 
> Some photos of a bellhousing issue, showing signs of wear on the bearing/s
> Here
> ...


What is the price of this fix?


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

Grimblin Gibbon said:


> How do you prevent shrinkage of the cnc part due to thermal cycling of the disimilar metals (transmission is notorious for heating up!)
> 
> Any creap due to cycling will put you back at square one in the long term and would nescitate either a new housing or a further rebore! :nervous:


This type of engineering (fitting a steel bearing into an alloy body) has been tried and tested in 100000's of succesful applications in the aero/automotive industry (e.g. most gearboxes have steel sleeved bearings press fit into alloy housings) so we do not need to challenge this practice in any way.

We machine both the alloy housing and steel sleeve with exact specified interference as given by engineering formulae to ensure a tight fit allowing for thermal cycling of the 2 materials.

Remember also, the bellhousing is at the front of the car (not at the gearbox), the bearings area are a fair distance from the motor, and would not experience 100 degree's C even after a hard dyno session (you can touch the bellhousing with your hand without discomfort (70 degree's C max) straight after the car has been on the dyno for an hour for initial power runs etc.)


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

vxrcymru said:


> What is the price of this fix?


As the bellhousing can have 1 or 2 of the bearings with wear, there are 2 prices;

*For Single Bearing Repair (the rear most Bearing)*

*Parts & All Labour is £995.00+VAT*

This entails removal of the bellhousing, measurement, setup, machining, machining of the sleeve, cleaning, installation, re-fit and test drive

*The price includes repair of the rear most bearing holder, and supply of 2 x new uprated bearings (one for the rear, one for the front)*

*For Twin Bearing repair (where both bearing holders have signs of wear)*
*
Parts & All Labour is £1195.00+VAT*

This entails all of the above, but also machining work is carried out to the front bearing holder, and machining of a new sleeve, with supply included of both bearings.

This price applies to all 2007+ GTR's (2011+ cars prices to be confirmed once we have had the opportunity to take a look at 2011 car bellhousing)

We then offer warranty of 50,000 miles / 5 year cover on this upgrade


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## countvonc (Feb 11, 2009)

Metal spraying the housing would be a better option than sleeving it.


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## CarPlanetRacing (Jan 13, 2010)

Grimblin Gibbon said:


> How do you prevent shrinkage of the cnc part due to thermal cycling of the disimilar metals (transmission is notorious for heating up!)
> 
> Any creap due to cycling will put you back at square one in the long term and would nescitate either a new housing or a further rebore! :nervous:


If you are genuinely interested on this process;

The linear expansion of the CNC'd Steel Sleeve is 0.0001224mm @ 100C using 20C and a base

The linear expansion of Pure Aluminum is 0.0015984mm @ 100C using 20C and a base

The difference in size is 0.001476mm. 

Note that pure aluminum expands a lot more than the alloy that would be used in the bell housing reducing its expansion rate further


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

CarPlanetRacing said:


> As the bellhousing can have 1 or 2 of the bearings with wear, there are 2 prices;
> 
> *For Single Bearing Repair (the rear most Bearing)*
> 
> ...


Your detailed reply is much appreciated :thumbsup:

Better start saving


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