# Stage 2 to stage 4.25 - is it worth it?



## jrattan (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm currently running a stage 2 with downpipes. It will cost me around £1800 to go to stage 4.25.
I know there's plenty of talk on the forum about the stages and I'm fairly aware of what it involves. I thought I'd post to get some opinions as I'm in two minds about.
My question is, is it worth from a power perspective and financial?
I don't track the car, only use it for spirited driving so never really hit those tops speeds (of 70mph ) for that long.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Imho yes it is. 4.25 is the sweet spot. Bear in mind that downpipes increase exhaust loudness depending on your y-pipe and back box combo.
I chose to have a new exhaust to quite the car down with downpipes as it was just too loud for me but plenty of folks are happy with that increase in sound.


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## jrattan (Oct 23, 2014)

I have boost logic downpipes and a Linney Street Titan exhaust system and titan Y pipe FYI
Not to be pedantic but what makes it sweet spot? Is it the acceleration at higher speeds or does it already increase the torque at lower speeds to a noticeable amount?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

If you have downpipes I'd be concerned about running lean on the stock injectors anyway so adding bigger ones gives your tune safety.

Your tuner can then alter your map to provide more BHP across the whole rev range whilst reducing timing to cap the torque to a safer level.

Without bigger intakes you're also not benefitting from the extra gas flow the downpipes allow.

Earlier turbo spool means more response to throttle inputs as well as more power under foot.

You'll notice the difference straight away.

I call it the sweet spot as it frees the engine from gas flow restrictions whilst improving throttle response and power in any gear. It's the stock engine in its best form removed of the restrictions placed upon it by emission regs etc.


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## james_barker (Nov 17, 2016)

Think Charlie means taking into account increase in power vs amount of money required to achieve it. Also, 4.25 is the limit for much of the stock internals before you start to significantly increase the risk of failure.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

james_barker said:


> Think Charlie means taking into account increase in power vs amount of money required to achieve it. Also, 4.25 is the limit for much of the stock internals before you start to significantly increase the risk of failure.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk


Spot on.

Stage 2 always seemed to me to be a bit of a waste of money to me especially if you've spent quite a bit adding downpipes.

I'd have gone stage 4 before downpipes (it's actually what I did) as the other bits (intakes injectors new map) add more for only a little more expense.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Also £1800 seems a little high?

Injector Dynamics 1000cc are £600 ish.
Larger intakes and filters £400 ish

£800 labour is way over for how easy the above are to fit. 

I haven't taken into account tuning costs but maybe £300?


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## jrattan (Oct 23, 2014)

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/Content/20.01.17_pricing_matrix.pdf

Spoke to Sly at my servicing on the weekend and he confirmed it too. Hence why not sure really


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I suppose labour costs for you Southerners is higher than for us Northern monkeys.

Regardless of a few hundred quid difference it's well worth it anyway.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Fcuk me them prices are crazy £1100 for a stage 1 ( remap ) on topic i noticed a big difference stage 2 to 4 well worth it in performance gains, you have to be a bit more careful coming out of roundabouts etc stage 2 you could just floor it stage 4 you can light up the tyres quite easy


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## 55chev (Mar 4, 2015)

4.25 all day long.


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## roscop123 (Jan 12, 2017)

Im currently at stage 4 going in monday for new.asnu 1100cc injectors and a fresh remap...for some reason the previous owner done all the work but not the injectors ! Baffled at that one...


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

That is an odd one.

Really risking going lean on stock injectors and bigger intakes.


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## roscop123 (Jan 12, 2017)

charles charlie said:


> That is an odd one.
> 
> Really risking going lean on stock injectors and bigger intakes.


Very weird had at 600 package and down pipes but kept stock injectors ...tuner had never seen that before usually other way around ? Injectors then dow pipes if not done when exhaust fitted...


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

The new COBB Stage 2 maps have calibrations for big intakes on stock injectors


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## Joni P. (Nov 13, 2006)

charles charlie said:


> Also £1800 seems a little high?
> 
> Injector Dynamics 1000cc are £600 ish.
> Larger intakes and filters £400 ish
> ...


- Bosch EV14 1000cc injectors cost me £416 /set, 
- 3" SS intakes self-made + filters £130, 
- custom remapping £400
£946 in total and installation/fabrication took about 2-3hours in total.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

For road use no.
Mines a stage 2 and on the various road trip meets my car has kept up with the stage 4's and 4.25.
For track use yes and if you have £1800 then go for it but do you need it?


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

TREG said:


> For road use no.
> Mines a stage 2 and on the various road trip meets my car has kept up with the stage 4's and 4.25.
> For track use yes and if you have £1800 then go for it but do you need it?


By the same token, for road use you don't even need a stage 2 then.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Adamantium said:


> By the same token, for road use you don't even need a stage 2 then.




There's actually some truth in that although the stage 2 is almost to easy to get to as most owners want an exhaust change.


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## jrattan (Oct 23, 2014)

TREG said:


> There's actually some truth in that although the stage 2 is almost to easy to get to as most owners want an exhaust change.




For road use we should all buy electric self driving cars 

You're right TREG I don't need it and I'm 50/50 about upgrading so just wanted the view of other enthusiasts  it's been useful so far...


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Stage 4 is the sweet spot for me. Personally I think downpipes are a step too far, noise and MOTwise.


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## jrattan (Oct 23, 2014)

Adamantium said:


> Stage 4 is the sweet spot for me. Personally I think downpipes are a step too far, noise and MOTwise.




Stage 4 with DPs will be louder than a stage 2 with DPs right? 
If so, I'm on the limit of what my ears can take already lol


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

TREG said:


> For road use no.
> Mines a stage 2 and on the various road trip meets my car has kept up with the stage 4's and 4.25.
> For track use yes and if you have £1800 then go for it but do you need it?





Adamantium said:


> By the same token, for road use you don't even need a stage 2 then.





TREG said:


> There's actually some truth in that although the stage 2 is almost to easy to get to as most owners want an exhaust change.


If we are playing the stage mod game, then you could say ANY stage could potentially blow your engine, as you are altering the car dynamics, outside the manufacturers specification!!

that's why mine is stage 4.25! :double-finger: haha 

Then again on the flipside of that, you could say.. Well some GTR's have blown engines (rods) when bone stock! :runaway: 

Where do you stop?? Ahh yes forge your engine! Which I have, but only because my stage 4.25 engine blew up (and I wasn't laughing then!), after 2 years running and goods use at this stage.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

No reason for stage 4 to be any louder.

Intake might make a different noise but insignificant compared to the exhaust.

A Litchfield 102mm triple silenced exhaust should keep things nice and quiet. Even with downpipes the volume at cruise is stock like, it just selectively makes a noise when you choose to really use the throttle. Perfect combination for me.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Adamantium said:


> Stage 4 is the sweet spot for me. Personally I think downpipes are a step too far, noise and MOTwise.


The GT-R will skip through an MOT with just the Y-Pipe fitted, just a pain in the arse to drop in and drop out again once a year for a short test lol


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

TREG said:


> For road use no.
> Mines a stage 2 and on the various road trip meets my car has kept up with the stage 4's and 4.25.
> For track use yes and if you have £1800 then go for it but do you need it?


My previous stage 2 destroyed a mate's stage 4 at 100+, he kept up until that point, he almost cried lol. I wonder if age of car somehow makes a difference, mine was a year old 63 plate his was 09 I think.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trevgtr said:


> My previous stage 2 destroyed a mate's stage 4 at 100+, he kept up until that point, he almost cried lol. I wonder if age of car somehow makes a difference, mine was a year old 63 plate his was 09 I think.


don't think it would be age of car, wouldnt it be mods and mapping??


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Bigger turbo inlets from MY11 onwards iirc.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

charles charlie said:


> Bigger turbo inlets from MY11 onwards iirc.


surely you get more from mapping, isnt it only like 10-15bhp from the inlets?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Don't think of it as a solitary figure. It's the benefit across the power band and more air means more fuel and more timing. Every little helps


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

also age of remap makes a huge difference.

The ecutek and the mappers have come a very long way not just with technical development and unlocking of maps but with experience through the sheer volume they have done.


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## Big Stewy (May 1, 2008)

Would the same apply for a MY17 Car? Picking mine up on 1st of April and would welcome feedback on others experiences?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

MY17 is the same car but with a new shiney suit.

All of the mods many of us have done to go from stock to stage 4.xx and beyond still apply. As do the warranty question marks we all discussed back in 2009/10.

Mod at your own risk and Nissan are legendary for being difficult respecting warranties on modified cars. It's not a straight no but be prepared for hassle.


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## Big Stewy (May 1, 2008)

Thanks. When I ordered the car the salesman stated that most purchasers of the GTR get the Y pipe fitted and this wouldn't affect the warranty. Is this true


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## roscop123 (Jan 12, 2017)

Big Stewy said:


> Thanks. When I ordered the car the salesman stated that most purchasers of the GTR get the Y pipe fitted and this wouldn't affect the warranty. Is this true



I believe the y pipe makes no impact on warranty i was told when i was enquiring for the my17


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Big Stewy said:


> Thanks. When I ordered the car the salesman stated that most purchasers of the GTR get the Y pipe fitted and this wouldn't affect the warranty. Is this true


Yes it's true, NHPC's fit Milltek Y pipes. I have a full GTC Titan exhaust on mine (MY16) and they don't mind that either. Trouble starts if you remap the car, any sign of raised boost will cause warranty quibbles or outright refusals, so if you go that route get an aftermarket warranty thrown in for around 1200 quid.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Or you could remap and insist on stock boost always.

They can still improve power and response, just make sure that during the remap they don't overboost by accident.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Trevgtr said:


> My previous stage 2 destroyed a mate's stage 4 at 100+, he kept up until that point, he almost cried lol. I wonder if age of car somehow makes a difference, mine was a year old 63 plate his was 09 I think.




It could be down to even more simple things like the driver, what tyres the cars were on or the suspension set up if we are talking B road driving rather than motorway.

Out of interest how many stage 4+ cars have had engine or gear box issues compared to say standard cars to stage 2? I ask as it seems when I have read about either giving up the cars seem to be stage 4 or above.


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## jrattan (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks for all the responses guys. Also, a consideration for me is selling in a year or so, what is more marketable? A stage 2 or 4.25? Is there a decent premium between the two?


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

You typically get back half the mod costs - which is decent considering that other cars are often worth less than stock equivalents.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

That's a great point Adam.

The market for R35s is quite unique I think. Modded cars sell well in the main however some people opt to convert back to a stock spec in order to maximise their returns by selling the mod parts separately. That shouldn't confuse people into thinking that modded cars don't sell.

What you do Adam by documenting each build is very sensible as it affords buyers an easy to prove history of the car.

Also having work down by a well known reputable tuner using well known parts may not add value but certainly should reassure buyers that the car is well built.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

jrattan said:


> Thanks for all the responses guys. Also, a consideration for me is selling in a year or so, what is more marketable? A stage 2 or 4.25? Is there a decent premium between the two?


It's a difficult question to answer as some buyers want to do the work themselves whilst others want a completed car.

My take is that I'd never mod a car for the benefit of whoever might buy my car in the future. This is because it's my car and I do the mods for my enjoyment. I would hope my choices are sound and well thought out and that potential buyers would see the genuine care that has been taken.

And if they don't then frankly they're not the right person to have my car.


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## DuncDriver (Mar 19, 2017)

Interesting points. Trying to decide between modded and unmodded myself.


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## idj-uk (Aug 3, 2016)

If I was planning on selling up in 12 months, I wouldn't bother putting any money in apart from routine maintenance/repair costs.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

idj-uk said:


> If I was planning on selling up in 12 months, I wouldn't bother putting any money in apart from routine maintenance/repair costs.


Why not? A lot of fun can be had in 12 mnths, if you had said 2 mnths I could understand.


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## idj-uk (Aug 3, 2016)

It's each to their own. 
If the car only does 2-3k miles a year then what is the point. 
If you have it as a daily driver and travel in the usual rush hour, you can't get the use out of it. 
So for 12 months or less, I would enjoy the car for what it is, saving my money for the next project.


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