# Winter builds - special offerings



## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Hi All,

It’s now getting to that time of year where people start prepping their cars ready for the coming summer, so I figured what with all the engine Woes and Worries flying around re: Stage 4+ cars it was time to get a group buy going on the GTR engine builds…….. Only in the GTR community can you do a group buy on builds lol

I approached Andy at ACSpeedtech to be the supplier and builder of the engines in this group buy and he has come back with a bomb proof spec that the company will standby at very good prices. Yes there are other cheaper builds available but they will lack the scope, strength and durability of these builds.

There are two specs available in this build and it is limited to 5 engines, that’s how good these prices are.

The two specs are based around a “build properly, build once” philosophy with only top brands/products being used and every part required being replaced, no corners cut and not cheap knock off parts used as substitutes. These engines are built to be leant on and relied on fore filling your needs without the worry of reaching the internals limits. Both engines are the perfect building block for the power you need and the reliability and longevity you crave so you can abuse your pride and joy

The two specs are as follows :

*The Paranoia Spec* – This spec will see your engine built and capable of a reliable 850bhp with the addition of turbos (not included in this build). This engine is aimed at those that are worried about their stage 4-4.5 engines longevity but are happy with the power and don’t plan to go mental. With this build you can unleash that capped torque without the worry of destroying the block.
Full OEM gasket set
OEM oil filter and sump plug washer
OEM head bolt set
Machining work to block for new pistons
Full fine harmonic balance to full rotating assembly
Running-in oil
Coolant
ATF
Air conditioning re-gas
Labour costs to remove/strip/clean/rebuild/reinstall/start motor
Manley ‘turbo tuff’ connecting rods – proven as one of the strongest rods available, personally tested to over 250hp and 9000rpm PER ROD (1500+hp in VR38 form).
Manley ‘Platinum series’ pistons – Graded per bore, Moly coated skirts, Total Seal piston rings, offset pin for quiet running
King racing XP connecting rod bearings
King racing XP crankshaft bearings

OFFER PRICE £5555+vat (strength rated to circa 850hp)

*Belt and Braces GO LARGE Spec* – This spec is for the boys and girls that know they are aiming big, this engine is capable of a strong reliable 1000BHP with the addition of the right Turbos (not included). This engine is aimed at those owners that know they eventually want to go big with their pride and joy, this engine will get you there without breaking a sweat, this is the perfect Stage1 of your future proof big builds, built to last, built to be abused, built to outperform you and still be happy to go again when you are.
ARP VR38DETT Head stud kit
HKS head gasket and manifold gasket set
OEM oil filter and sump plug washer
Machining work to block for new pistons
Full fine harmonic balance to full rotating assembly
Running-in oil
Coolant
ATF
Air conditioning re-gas
Labour costs to remove/strip/clean/rebuild/reinstall/start motor
Manley ‘turbo tuff’ connecting rods – proven as one of the strongest rods available, personally tested to over 250hp and 9000rpm PER ROD (1500+hp in VR38 form).
Manley ‘Platinum series’ pistons – Graded per bore, Moly coated skirts, Total Seal piston rings, offset pin for quiet running
King racing XP connecting rod bearings
King racing XP crankshaft bearings

OFFER PRICE £6666+vat (strength rated comfortably to 1000+hp)

As Stated this offer is a limited offer, first five to put down a 40% deposit secures a spot. To secure your place on the big build list please call ACSpeedtech direct on 01925 830 889

Other options such as valve springs and cams for better high end flow and additional available rpm (8200 rpm), head porting for improved efficiency above 900hp, turbo options, intercooler options etc. can all be quoted for and factored in on an individual basis and would be additional to the offer.

*Note*: This offer is for the engine long block only, ancillaries such as fuel system, turbos, intercoolers and management which would be needed to produce power in excess of oem levels are not included.
Note : This is the future of your engine, running your engine at these levels will put strain on other parts of your car, future work will be required with the gearbox if you wish to run 700+ft/lb of torque.

*Note*: This offer assumes the existing engine is in good running order, serviced correctly and all other components are within spec. On stripdown and inspection if any components require replacement this will be flagged up to the owner.

*Note*: All engine builds are carried out in-house in our clean room, if mapping is required after running in (running in map can be supplied) this also can be carried out in-house, live, road or dyno.

*Note*: We will of course warrant our workmanship of the build, please understand there are factors out of our control such as poor maintenance and abuse of the engine, plus mapping carried out by people other than ourselves which would be taken into consideration should such a situation arise (Not something we have ever had to deal with! But we have to mention it). We are full members of both the RMI and the FSB who would both offer a completely independent arbitration and legal facility in case of any issues (Again… Not something we have ever had to deal with! But we have to mention it).


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## dtox (Sep 21, 2009)

Interested in the 1,000 build how much over 1,000 can this handle.
I don't really see the point only going to 850bhp engine for any extra 1k uprate the lot


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Exactly my friend...... it's worth the extra grand for the potential later on. The rods and Pistons are rated passed 1000bhp, 250bhp each on testing = 1500bhp however a lot of other things will need to be considered


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## GTRSTILL (Jul 27, 2006)

Epic idea. Sly builds Litchfield's engines right... I wonder if there will be some competitive pricing coming out.

I for one am very tempted. Just peace of mind!

Any idea of a guaranteed turnaround time. This is what would clinch it for me.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Great idea this mate - you planning on having turbo`s while the engine is out


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

GTRSTILL said:


> Epic idea. Sly builds Litchfield's engines right... I wonder if there will be some competitive pricing coming out.
> 
> I for one am very tempted. Just peace of mind!
> 
> Any idea of a guaranteed turnaround time. This is what would clinch it for me.


Three week turn around buddy

I'm sure there will be some competitive pricing now brought to the fore, at this price will be hard to beat for the spec and level of components used, the aim isn't to do it cheap here, it's do it once and do it right, infor one don't want my engine apart more than once lol


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

GTRSTILL said:


> Epic idea. Sly builds Litchfield's engines right..


Sly doesn't build Litchfield's.

They have a dedicated in-house engine builder, Steve, and a clean room specifically for engine builds.


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## GTRSTILL (Jul 27, 2006)

Ok....


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## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

Hmm, very interesting.. How many engine builds have they completed at these levels?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Many many builds to and above this level of tune, they are a well established and well regarded builder and tuner of the GTR's, this isn't a test it and see venture by them, this is business as usual chap.


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## Econ (Jun 8, 2006)

I would be interested in something like this. Mine is a Litchfield stg 5 so obviously a little worried about the strength of the block.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Econ said:


> I would be interested in something like this. Mine is a Litchfield stg 5 so obviously a little worried about the strength of the block.


This would certainly be a good move my friend, the outlay now will certainly save you a MUCH larger bill in the long run when something does let go and obliterates the entire block and everything around it


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## Econ (Jun 8, 2006)

Stealth69 said:


> This would certainly be a good move my friend, the outlay now will certainly save you a MUCH larger bill in the long run when something does let go and obliterates the entire block and everything around it


Exactly! Count me in!

And thanks for organising this. :bowdown1:


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Econ said:


> Exactly! Count me in!
> 
> And thanks for organising this. :bowdown1:


No dramas buddy, Give Andy a call at the workshop on the number above and your place can be confirmed


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Very good idea Stealth69!! Since mine blew up stage 4.25, mines getting the *Belt and Braces GO LARGE Spec* treatment, with slightly different spec, but will achieve similar. I'm having a cheeky set of HKS cams going in as well.. yum yum!

So peeps know once blown it costs a LOT more! 
add £3k+ for a block
add another £2-3k for parts broken when the rod makes an escape for it! in my case a head, crank and turbo was killed when it let go!
So you're looking at double the price, not nice!

See pics of mine here and more info -
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/479825-ouch.html

Now NOT not to scare anyone, but just to make it more real to them.. Here's what happens when a rod makes an escape for freedom! I never thought mine would go and it did! in my case I bought the car on 27k and had it tuned to stage 4.25, and 2 years later it blew on stage 4.25 at 52k, stage 4.25 approx 650-660bhp and 650lbft

rod escaped!


















Crank fragged

















[/QUOTE]


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Bleugh........ horrific sight!!!! Glad it's getting sorted though dude


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## Econ (Jun 8, 2006)

Stealth69 said:


> No dramas buddy, Give Andy a call at the workshop on the number above and your place can be confirmed


Nice one. I am in Amsterdam until the 11th but will call when I get back to the UK


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

Would love to do an engine build over the winter but sadly funds do not allow. Looks like a cracking deal too


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## rob2005 (Apr 26, 2015)

Chronos your torque figure was a tad high. I thought most capped it at 620lb/ft? 

I've had figures from Andy for just doing Rods on mine as I'm happy with my power figures of a Stage 4.25 car. 

Still contemplating it at the mo but AC Speedtech are top notch guys!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

rob2005 said:


> Chronos your torque figure was a tad high. I thought most capped it at 620lb/ft?
> 
> I've had figures from Andy for just doing Rods on mine as I'm happy with my power figures of a Stage 4.25 car.
> 
> Still contemplating it at the mo but AC Speedtech are top notch guys!


Just do this deal and future proof yourself sunshine


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

rob2005 said:


> Chronos your torque figure was a tad high. I thought most capped it at 620lb/ft?
> 
> I've had figures from Andy for just doing Rods on mine as I'm happy with my power figures of a Stage 4.25 car.
> 
> Still contemplating it at the mo but AC Speedtech are top notch guys!


around that yes, 620-650 so mine was at the higher end. 

If you are not planning to mod for any more power, why not just get rods dropped in as you're doing, sounds good to me! Just all depends on what your future plans are. As it's a lot of work/time thus a lot of cost to take the engine out strip, fit and rebuild so best getting all you want done and over with.

Did Andy say stage 4.25 is fine on the pistons in the long term then? If so that's fine for your needs bud.


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## rob2005 (Apr 26, 2015)

I was the same as you in the end, it would be a false economy not to do the pistons etc. So i think I will get winter out of the way first and get a clear plan for 2017 underway. 

Bet you can't wait to have yours back mate


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

How does this compare to competition price wise?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

vxrcymru said:


> How does this compare to competition price wise?


Have a look around mate, you won't find a spec this strong or capable where with this quality of parts elsewhere


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

rob2005 said:


> I was the same as you in the end, it would be a false economy not to do the pistons etc. So i think I will get winter out of the way first and get a clear plan for 2017 underway.
> 
> Bet you can't wait to have yours back mate


If i do mine i would do the rods leave oem pistons and put the savings towards some turbos - but i would be happy with 750hp


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

OE Pistons are only good for around 800bhp give or take some tens ....... to be fair a rod job works out quite expensive once you've taken all the balancing etc in to account


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Stealth69 said:


> Have a look around mate, you won't find a spec this strong or capable where with this quality of parts elsewhere


Let's start a list to compare. 

SVM
Litchfield
JM Imports 

There will be differences in parts but it's a useful comparison to see how good the offer is


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

This is a group buy thread, if you want to start a like for like comparison thread do it on another one !


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Couple of spots gone, get in there kids


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I've seen enough pictures of standard piston crown failure due to running to much power rather than due to det.

If doing the rods, there's just no point not doing the pistons.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Adamantium said:


> I've seen enough pictures of standard piston crown failure due to running to much power rather than due to det.
> 
> If doing the rods, there's just no point not doing the pistons.


Disagree Adam - as mentioned common thoughts pistons are good for around 800hp - when talking to the guy who built my turbo charged bike engine 12000rpm He says good quality rods will come in a set @ the same weight (if not remove metal off the pads till they do) - they are not connected when the crank is balanced - just doing the rods will save you on the cost of the pistons plus machining cost of having the bores done + the cost of stripping the rest of the engine down to balance the crank 

Obviously not the quality or as bullet proof as the builds stealth is promoting


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Big chunk of labour is engine removal. Am not saying it's just the pistons extra, but a big chunk has to be spent anyway when doing the rods.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

How much is just the labour as I have all the parts?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Give them a shout on the number from the first page dude


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

I've been discussing pretty much these exact deals with Andy for some time now since I had mine back at the beginning of the year and heard a ticking only to later find out the ticking was the turbo!

I've not actually spoken to any other engine builders at all but these seem around the figures I'd heard and are using all good materials so I'll be putting my deposit in soon ready for a build at the beginning of the year. Just need to sort a few little things before biting the bullet


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Good lad!! Lots of talk going on among another bunch of owners so expect these specs to go pretty soon


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## DocT (Dec 17, 2014)

Stealth69 said:


> Good lad!! Lots of talk going on among another bunch of owners so expect these specs to go pretty soon


Out of interest (genuine interest as 2017 is the year for an engine build for me) how much of a saving are we seeing at these discounted prices?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Is a healthy saving on what they would normally charge for a build for such as this chap.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Something you may be interested in Borat


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Can't decide what to do with my car. 

Part of me thinks a MY17 track edition is the way to go, but carbon backed seats would swing it for me as I've wanted them from the moment I first saw them in the Spec V and the talk is they won't be on the UK spec.

On the other hand the '09 I currently have is mint and is exactly how I want it now, albeit not in my 1st choice of colour.

I'm still not sure that £6.5k is a wise investment for me. If I keep my current car there's every chance that it just keeps going on the stock bottom end for another 30k miles or more.

With that in mind, given all my spare capital is reinvested in my company and gets a pretty good return year on year I think I'm financially better off not forging and just stumping up for a new block if I do blow the engine, plus it leaves me the option of trading up to a track edition if I do decide that without having to run a new engine in for the next 6 months.

Sods law my rods end up flying into a hedge tomorrow now after saying that.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Does Sod's law have a time limitation to execute post daring statement?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

A few places left for some lucky owners


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Hello monster build thread


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Mine's in Mid Jan


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

CelticWebs said:


> Mine's in Mid Jan


specs.. :thumbsup:


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Chronos said:


> specs.. :thumbsup:




In the end I went full hog including the head gasket, up rated valve springs and arp studs. The turbos I'd bought were rated at 850-900 so decided I'd rather know the engine would take it in its stride.

Looking forward to completion now


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Good choice my old fruit!!


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> Good choice my old fruit!!




I think so too  Overkill but future proof 


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

CelticWebs said:


> In the end I went full hog including the head gasket, up rated valve springs and arp studs. The turbos I'd bought were rated at 850-900 so decided I'd rather know the engine would take it in its stride.
> 
> Looking forward to completion now


similar to mine bud, spec the engine 1000+ and future proof the ****er!

Am chuffed mines finally built and due to be put back in the car... hurrah!! not too long now... can't wait to drive the beeyatch again!! on low boost while she beds in!


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Very tempting...running 4.25 with torque at 600 lb/ft...

Andy rebuilt my transmission last year so am well acquainted with his work. ..

See what Santa brings me...!


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> Very tempting...running 4.25 with torque at 600 lb/ft...
> 
> Andy rebuilt my transmission last year so am well acquainted with his work. ..
> 
> See what Santa brings me...!



DO IT!

So many 600ft/lb cars throwing rods out the block these days that I had to do it for peace of mind!


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Chronos said:


> similar to mine bud, spec the engine 1000+ and future proof the ****er!
> 
> Am chuffed mines finally built and due to be put back in the car... hurrah!! not too long now... can't wait to drive the beeyatch again!! on low boost while she beds in!


Fair play, they look complicated lumps when you see them all built up like that!

Bet you're like a kid at Christmas waiting... Hang on, IT IS CHRISTMAS!!!! :chuckle:


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## buzzysingh (Nov 19, 2012)

Surprised that for the belts and braces approach a timing chain kit was not included. For the older engines I think this is an essential and something that most UK tuners are starting to find out.


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Tuners starting to find out? I've not heard of any timing chain failures? 


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

buzzysingh said:


> Surprised that for the belts and braces approach a timing chain kit was not included. For the older engines I think this is an essential and something that most UK tuners are starting to find out.


Jesus least mechanically minded person on the board has come up with something technical lol x

Makes a good point, I think it does say I. The T&C's that the price is based on everything else being in proper order but I've never heard of the chain failing or stretching for that matter


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> Jesus least mechanically minded person on the board has come up with something technical lol x
> 
> Makes a good point, I think it does say I. The T&C's that the price is based on everything else being in proper order but I've never heard of the chain failing or stretching for that matter




It is a sensible idea really, though like you say, I've not heard of one failing. 

Does sound like Buzz is suggesting it's become known issue though?


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Check out the last couple of pages of the 100k miles thread for timing chain issues. 

Merry Xmas!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

100k miles....... bloody good work for the chain


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## Kieranrob (Apr 3, 2012)

I will be going down the forged engine route and maybe new turbo's next winter as a peace of mind. I will be looking at a larger intercooler on the next service.


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> 100k miles....... bloody good work for the chain




Used to be that belts used to last 70-100k so they brought in chains for longer life. Suppose there's possibly more wear on a GTR chain when compared to some cars.


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Wasn't that normally xxx thousand miles or xxx number of years? The chains will probably be more mileage restricted than age restricted. They don't perish of course ...

Think the Evo is 45k miles or 4 years so 100k miles is a considerable step forward


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Evo9lution said:


> Wasn't that normally xxx thousand miles or xxx number of years? The chains will probably be more mileage restricted than age restricted. They don't perish of course ...
> 
> Think the Evo is 45k miles or 4 years so 100k miles is a considerable step forward


Used to be both yes, many cars were 70-100k with a time attached to, so which ever came first. More powerful / higher revving cars I would assume could put more pressure on a belt so would wear quicker. Either way, I am now thinking that maybe a chain would be an idea.. 100k untouched is different to expecting 100k for a chain that that had been removed and put back on again.


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

The 100k mile car is standard doing easy motorway miles. Would one expect 100k from a chain on a 600-900 bhp engine doing track work and driven in anger.

I'm not sure whether higher bhp puts more strain on the chain???


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Its normally the tensioners that wear out - most change both the chain and tensioners at the same time


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

How much is a new chain, anyone actually know??


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

About 5-600 for the kit I think


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

Cheers Huw, I'll speak to Andy and see what he says about potentially getting it done? Are you going to?


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

CelticWebs said:


> About 5-600 for the kit I think
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Timing chain $71 and tensioner pulley $70 from Courtesy in the States, even with shipping and if you get nabbed for import duty it's still nowhere near £500 :thumbsup:


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

Nice one Barry, thanks!


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

My build is having new timing chain and tensioners. My engine builder said it would daft not to do it as my motor has 70k on. Also having a new oil pump fitted too.


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## buzzysingh (Nov 19, 2012)

terry lloyd said:


> Its normally the tensioners that wear out - most change both the chain and tensioners at the same time


Yep, my tensioner had worn out but both replaced to be safe. No more issues for now y0!


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## buzzysingh (Nov 19, 2012)

See attached, Parts for timing kit that JM supply and insist on when doing a refresh.I am led to believe this is above the few dollars above. 

Just FYI. I think it comes out to over £1k, but I haven't checked.

Sorry if this is considered thread jacking but believe it's important for those who have higher mileage GTR's as I wasn't aware of this until I dug more after having issues!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Nope not thread crapping, experience Sharing


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

barry P. said:


> Timing chain $71 and tensioner pulley $70 from Courtesy in the States, even with shipping and if you get nabbed for import duty it's still nowhere near £500 :thumbsup:


Apologies, the only timing chain kist I'd seen are things like this https://conceptzperformance.com/nis...it-nissan-gt-r-09-r35-13028-jf0kt_p_13207.php

That kit is nearly $700 so I was assuming that it would be at least 500 - 600 in UK if not more. There's obviously more to that kit that what you are Discussing.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

barry P. said:


> Timing chain $71 and tensioner pulley $70 from Courtesy in the States, even with shipping and if you get nabbed for import duty it's still nowhere near £500 :thumbsup:


Thought that was cheap - guessing its one of the smaller cam chains and tensioner


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

I've mailed Andy directly about getting on the bandwagon and asked his views on chain/tensioner replacement. My thinking is he is best placed to comment/recommend.

David


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Ok kids...... for those that are genuinely interested you will have read the original post and seen that it does state, and I shall paraphrase, so this is just for the people that didn't bother reading it all :

"Note: This offer assumes the existing engine is in good running order, serviced correctly and all other components are within spec. On stripdown and inspection if any components require replacement this will be flagged up to the owner."

Due to the nature of the build and the vast range of cars AC see, cars from 1500 miles up to 100+k miles, this kit wouldn't be included in the build price but is covered under the note as above....... if you're on an older car and those bits need replacing they will be flagged. Therer is no consistency on any of the engines with regards to wear and will be servicing and useage dependent, but there have been no mentions of chain fail, so as stated, all inspected and advised either way.

The full chain and tensioner kit includes both the main chain and tensioners plus the cam pulley chains and both tensioners and costs around £630.98+vat at full RRP before discount.


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Am in for the "Paranoia build"!

Due to chat with Andy sometime soon about when we can schedule this in - I'll be guided by him during the build about other components to replace.

Am contemplating having the Litchfield downpipes removed and go back to standard. 

The combination on my 4.25 is Litchfield pipes and Japspeed exhaust (both on car when I bought it) and I find it too "screechy" when giving it a bit of oomph. I like the burble and low speed sound though but I don't know how much of that I'd lose by changing the downpipes!

David


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Leave the downpipes and go back to stock Y-pipe perhaps? I'll swap you my standard backbox and Y-pipe for your back section 

You dont really want to be ditching the downpipes, I have some standard ones if you really want to go back but I wouldn't


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Yep do the downpipes as it helps take heat away from the engine bay and have a more silenced y-pipe or back box fitted. Russ Fellows is adapting my old y-pipe so I can do this, have flames and be quieter :smokin:


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Thanks for your comments "Stealth69" and "Charles Charlie" - I'll also take some advice also from Andy and see how best to progress.

@ Stealth69 - If I go down the route of replacing the box/Ypipe I'll let you know and see if we might be able to engineer a swap.

Must admit am favouring moving back to stnd downpipes - gets rid of the fuel smell too - but am open to and confused by, all options at moment.

David


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Keep the downpipes as they, the standard ones are the most restrictive part of the system and as mentioned they do hold a lot of heat close to the engine, put a std Y-Pipe back in and that should be sufficient to get rid of the smell and some noise. 

Andy is certainly the best bod to give you a real technical answer and choices


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Just spent a pleasant hour on the telephone with Andy who walked me through what the build involves, why he has chosen specific components/manufacturers all centred around what my specific goals are in terms of bhp/torque, road/track use etc.

We discussed what I like/dislike about my exhaust set-up and have agreed we will keep the Miltek down-pipes. When I drop the car off for the engine build we will take the car out and I can explain the sounds I like, the sounds I don't like across the rev range and Andy will then give me his recommendations.

Car now booked in for March 4th.

This time last year car was at Andy's for a transmission rebuild (had the R-1-R selection problem) - getting to be a habit!

David


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Good news buddy!!


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## DocT (Dec 17, 2014)

Could anyone suggest a suitable gearbox build and associated costs to go with these engine builds?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

I bet Andy could lol give him a bell buddy


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Left my car with Andy yesterday for the Paranoia build and a few other jobs.

As always Andy spent time going through what would be done and showed me a sample Manley piston - these are a TOTAL work of art and look far too good to be buried inside an engine!

Need to be patient for a few weeks!

David


----------



## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> Left my car with Andy yesterday for the Paranoia build and a few other jobs.
> 
> As always Andy spent time going through what would be done and showed me a sample Manley piston - these are a TOTAL work of art and look far too good to be buried inside an engine!
> 
> ...


Mine started work on Monday, by Tuesday morning I had photos of a totally stripped down engine and parts were on the way to the machine shop the following day.

They certainly don't waste any time!


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> Left my car with Andy yesterday for the Paranoia build and a few other jobs.
> As always Andy spent time going through what would be done and showed me a sample Manley piston - these are a TOTAL work of art and look far too good to be buried inside an engine!
> Need to be patient for a few weeks!
> David


I've had my R35 back for 2-3 weeks now since engine blew and acspeed fully rebuilt it from scratch, car's done over 1500 miles and the engine is smooth and feels STRONG! I went for Carrillo rods, cP pistons and HKS cams. The engine has a king of vrrrooom, metal cam/piston sound when you accelerate hard, and I like it. whereas before the front end with a stock engine hardly made any noise.


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Chronos said:


> I've had my R35 back a 2-3 weeks now since engine blew and acspeed fully rebuilt it from scratch, car's done over 1500 miles and the engine is smooth and feels STRONG! I went for Carrillo rods, cP pistons and HKS cams. The engine has a king of vrrrooom, metal cam/piston sound when you accelerate hard, and I like it. whereas before the front end with a stock engine hardly made any noise.


You can't knock a complete rebuild in 2 - 3 weeks! 

I didn't go for cams, you notice anything different?

Are you on stock or custom turbos now?


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

CelticWebs said:


> You can't knock a complete rebuild in 2 - 3 weeks!
> I didn't go for cams, you notice anything different?
> Are you on stock or custom turbos now?


I've had the car back for 2-3 weeks, the car was there longer but we where getting parts together etc which took time, as don't forget mine was a full rebuild, not just upgrade like you guys are getting, took me/acspeed a few months to get a block from Nissan, stock availability and some other bits.

I'm on some low milage stock turbos now (as i lost a turbo in the blow), as I am not doing more power at the moment until I've fully forged my gearbox (personal thing due to previous gearbox issues that haunt me! haha)

However as my engines now forged the stock turbos are on 1.5bar, so about 675lb.ft i'm told and it goes like a rocket for stage 4.25, It's feels quicker than it was on a stock engine @ 4.25, the cams will come more into effect when I eventually get uprated turbos. But I reckon they are helping the stock tubbys too. We where going to dyno it, but currently have dyno issues in the dyno place, once its sorted I will pop it on and see what its doing.


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Andy was proposing that after all the run-in/oil/filter changes, he would set mine to 1.4 bar (stock turbos), which will be well within the spec of the Manley rods.

David


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> Andy was proposing that after all the run-in/oil/filter changes, he would set mine to 1.4 bar (stock turbos), which will be well within the spec of the Manley rods.
> 
> David


Sweet, And She will go like a rocket! With peace of mind included, my peace of mind was forced tho., haha . But will be great in the long run!


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

1.4 is wweeeeeeeeell within the limits of the new build, you couldn't even get close to the limits of the new build on stock turbos


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Tinyflier said:


> Andy was proposing that after all the run-in/oil/filter changes, he would set mine to 1.4 bar (stock turbos), which will be well within the spec of the Manley rods.
> 
> David


You'll reach the limits of the stock turbos around 21-22 psi so 1.4 bar is spot on.

You'll know have that nagging feeling that you are running a super strong engine with whimsical stock turbos.

Just imagine the fun you could have with a little blower upgrade to say 8-850bhp?


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

charles charlie said:


> You'll reach the limits of the stock turbos around 21-22 psi so 1.4 bar is spot on.
> 
> You'll know have that nagging feeling that you are running a super strong engine with whimsical stock turbos.
> 
> Just imagine the fun you could have with a little blower upgrade to say 8-850bhp?


Get thee behind me Satan!

OR...

hmmm - is my birthday soon... (Let me get it run in first... actually let me get it back first THEN run in...).


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## james_barker (Nov 17, 2016)

charles charlie said:


> You'll reach the limits of the stock turbos around 21-22 psi so 1.4 bar is spot on.
> 
> You'll know have that nagging feeling that you are running a super strong engine with whimsical stock turbos.
> 
> Just imagine the fun you could have with a little blower upgrade to say 8-850bhp?


I've never done a back to back comparison between a normal tuned gtr (or any car) and one that's had uprated turbos. 

What's the overall affect on driveability? I'm assuming the power band starts to shrink significantly, pushing available power higher up the rev range. 

I only ask because it's an interesting investment but curious how it affects the car holistically. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

james_barker said:


> I've never done a back to back comparison between a normal tuned gtr (or any car) and one that's had uprated turbos.
> 
> What's the overall affect on driveability? I'm assuming the power band starts to shrink significantly, pushing available power higher up the rev range.
> 
> ...



Depends what turbos you run, some setups actually end up with a wider power band. If you're aiming for the 800-850 mark on suitable turbos I think you'd be surprised.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

james_barker said:


> I've never done a back to back comparison between a normal tuned gtr (or any car) and one that's had uprated turbos.
> 
> What's the overall affect on driveability? I'm assuming the power band starts to shrink significantly, pushing available power higher up the rev range.
> 
> ...


My build objectives were for stock like driveability with another 150-200 bhp on top of my stage 4.

Being savvy with turbo and camshaft choice should keep that a real possibility and so far so good for me. Mapping and boost control is far from complete due to actuator issues mentioned above however it's smoother than it was before and thoroughly beautiful to drive.

Boost should come on at a very similar RPM and last longer as these turbos shouldn't drop off like the stockers do so power and torque should be available for more of the rev range.

When you chase 1000+ is where driveability suffers in my experience and don't forget twin turbo engines use two smaller turbos not one big one like the RB engines hence the smoother power delivery on upgraded blowers.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Just dropped mine off:double-finger::squintdan:chuckle:


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Few of us in there now then  all for similar builds too 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

dudersvr said:


> Just dropped mine off:double-finger::squintdan:chuckle:


congrats! What spec you going for?


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

CelticWebs said:


> Depends what turbos you run, some setups actually end up with a wider power band. If you're aiming for the 800-850 mark on suitable turbos I think you'd be surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Got your car back Yet?


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Chronos said:


> congrats! What spec you going for?


1000hp ready with valve springs and a few extra bits plus billet baskets and extreme clutch with box flush.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

dudersvr said:


> 1000hp ready with valve springs and a few extra bits plus billet baskets and extreme clutch with box flush.


Whats box flush chap?


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

vxrcymru said:


> Got your car back Yet?


Not yet, engine is all assembled, had a small hold up at the start waiting for the machine shop which nocked the planning out and now I'm waiting on a couple of small parts to arrive, then it's back in and start running in. 

Had hoped to have it back for a Piston Heads / Aston Martin event on April 9th, with the small delays nocking it back a bit it's unlikely now but we shall see!


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

dudersvr said:


> 1000hp ready with valve springs and a few extra bits plus billet baskets and extreme clutch with box flush.


Whats a box flush? Or are you talking about a flash as in reprogram?


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

CelticWebs said:


> Not yet, engine is all assembled, had a small hold up at the start waiting for the machine shop which nocked the planning out and now I'm waiting on a couple of small parts to arrive, then it's back in and start running in.
> 
> Had hoped to have it back for a Piston Heads / Aston Martin event on April 9th, with the small delays nocking it back a bit it's unlikely now but we shall see!


Hmm - that's not so good to hear! I was hoping to get mine back next week but now wonder if your delay will have knock on impact down the queue!

Think I'd better give them a call!

David


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

CelticWebs said:


> Whats a box flush? Or are you talking about a flash as in reprogram?


No as the box is coming out to remove and change clutch pack Andy is going to drop the valve pack and clean that and the shift solenoids so everything is as good as can be. Cant wait to see what comes back as I know from talking to Andy exactly how this will be built, im not talking the hardware im talking the work involved like balancing and lightening the crank and bore matching pistons and rings, as ive built many 2JZ engines the same way I know how much difference this makes. Andy is also fully aware of where the car is going with respect to future upgrades like box, diffs, shafts and turbos and fuelling.
He also has some tricky stuff he wants to do regards mapping, when car comes back it will have 500miles on it and be fully mapped on unleaded, im off to Germany in it over the May bank holiday then it will go straight back up for mapping on race fuel with a view to running in the 9's at its first outing at the pod. Ive bought another 2 sets of slicks and a set of 17" cheater slicks (DOT marked)and a set of M&H drag radials (18") for the front.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Tinyflier said:


> Hmm - that's not so good to hear! I was hoping to get mine back next week but now wonder if your delay will have knock on impact down the queue!
> 
> Think I'd better give them a call!
> 
> David



Andy didnt flinch when I said I HAVE to have the car for mid/end April and he ahs a lot to do inc running in and mapping.


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

dudersvr said:


> Andy didnt flinch when I said I HAVE to have the car for mid/end April and he ahs a lot to do inc running in and mapping.


Interesting as yours went in after mine and I was expecting a 3-4 week turnround. 

Am sure all is OK for us both.

Andy is checking my clutch pack as well.When he did the transmission rebuild last year he put in an uprated set of discs and I've never really found the sweet spot in terms of CP/TP and the change is a bit schizophrenic! 

Sometimes sublimely smooth and other times it's like being rear ended!

David


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> Interesting as yours went in after mine and I was expecting a 3-4 week turnround.
> 
> Am sure all is OK for us both.
> 
> ...


Extreme apparently don't have the clutches in stock to be able to do mine so mine will likely do run in miles then go back for box and final map. Think the clutches weren't available till mid April.


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Called today and found out that the block with balanced crank is only back from machine shop today!

Couple of days now to clean all faces etc before assembly (!), 2-3 days to reassemble everything then couple of days to test/initial run-in/oil change and I might be able to go collect it in another 2 weeks...hmmm that could mess up my plans for Easter.

Forgot to ask about transmission!

Am arranging for 4 MPS4S to be delivered, heavy wear on front inner edges so may as well splash out on new rubber all round.

David


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> Called today and found out that the block with balanced crank is only back from machine shop today!
> 
> Couple of days now to clean all faces etc before assembly (!), 2-3 days to reassemble everything then couple of days to test/initial run-in/oil change and I might be able to go collect it in another 2 weeks...hmmm that could mess up my plans for Easter.
> 
> ...


Congrats! Have a read below, and have a good think about MPS4S as they are quite bouncy at high speed 60mph+(more so than mpss!) on the R35, but have epic wet grip!

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/488993-m...s-released-jan-2017-a-10.html?highlight=mps4s


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Chronos said:


> Congrats! Have a read below, and have a good think about MPS4S as they are quite bouncy at high speed 60mph+(more so than mpss!) on the R35, but have epic wet grip!
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/488993-m...s-released-jan-2017-a-10.html?highlight=mps4s


I did have a good read at this thread and a long think about going for R888s. 

I have MPSS fitted now and yes there is some bounce but I've never found it to be too unsettling. 

As there is always some compromise to be made I opted for the all weather grip of the Michelin outweighing the bounce. 

David


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Tinyflier said:


> Called today and found out that the block with balanced crank is only back from machine shop today!
> 
> Couple of days now to clean all faces etc before assembly (!), 2-3 days to reassemble everything then couple of days to test/initial run-in/oil change and I might be able to go collect it in another 2 weeks...hmmm that could mess up my plans for Easter.
> 
> ...


Guys, after having had my engine rebuilt recently it's worth pointing out that there are several key stages during a build where there are factors are beyond the control of the engine builder. Like you've mentioned, several key engineering procedures are outsourced such as balancing, powder coating, valve seat prep, even bore honing.

Delays with parts, parts being missing or incorrect from suppliers, etc etc etc.

This can mean that delays are inevitable.

During my build we had issues with

- the machine shop doing my front diff said 2 days turnaround but after 10 days Paul went and picked it up and did it himself.

- another machine shop took 3 weeks longer to balance the rotating assembly delaying the whole engine

- powder coaters messed up the covers so they had to be done again (a week delay)

- wrong bearings were in the correct packaging so they didnt fit - another 10 day delay.

You wouldnt believe the intricacy and detail involved in building your new engine and I know Andy at AC wont want to rush it and do a less than perfect job.

Patience young Padawans..... 

It's very very worth it.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

charles charlie said:


> Guys, after having had my engine rebuilt recently it's worth pointing out that there are several key stages during a build where there are factors are beyond the control of the engine builder. Like you've mentioned, several key engineering procedures are outsourced such as balancing, powder coating, valve seat prep, even bore honing.
> 
> Delays with parts, parts being missing or incorrect from suppliers, etc etc etc.
> 
> ...


+1 well said, initially It took us 3 months to get a replacement block for mine
Then the 1st block turned up damaged as it had been dropped in transit :chairshot, had to send it back another 10 days and get a refund, and wait for another to arrive another 2 weeks.

Then delays with other parts coming in, which isn't the tuners fault. but is non the less frustrating of course. 

as charles charlie said, its a VERY complicated process with shitloads of different parts, and you DON'T want your engine builder being rushed. You want it perfect once finished so 'Patience young Padawans' , and it's certainly worth the wait!!

completed


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Patience is not one of my strengths... yes I know you are both right I do want it correct and yes Andy's guys need to take whatever time is needed to get it right... but I miss my car! 

Heyho - still have my 350 to play with!

David


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

just to mix it up and show scale, skills and complexity-

R35 GTR bare block -









Add some pistons and rods -

rods









pistons









pistons in R35 GTr Block









chuck in the engine and simply put it all back together -


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## ziggy9128 (May 25, 2015)

Hi there guys, this might be off topic slightly, i apologise in advance, but i need abit of help explaining something, ive just bought myself 2011 GTR, which has this SVM 650R Cobb conversion done. i know by pressing the cancel button on the steering and then moving up and down the the toggle to choose the different maps 1 to 3 or is it 4 chooses the maps for you. But firstly do you have to press the cancel button again to activate the chosen map and secondly what performance do you get from the 3 or 4 different maps, what are they ? How does it effect the power, drive, performance ,the difference, on each map. Sorry to sound thick, ive never done conversion before, first time toying with one on it already. The access port didnt come with the car, but i was told thats only used for. Adjusting fuel ratio and ignition timing?
Any advice or help would be kindly and greatfully appreciated my brothers.
Regards
Ziggy


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Hi Ziggy - just press cancel then toggle up / down for map selection you do not need to press cancel again . cannot tell you what map is what as its set by the tuner , if you had the cobb accessport you could open the file in accesstuner and it would tell you which map is what ie: map 1 18psi map 2 17 psi etc , you cannot adjust timing fuel etc you need the race software to do this - you are kind of just stuck with what you have without the accessport - probably best if you open a new thread if you have any more questions


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

ziggy9128 said:


> Hi there guys, this might be off topic slightly, i apologise in advance, but i need abit of help explaining something, ive just bought myself 2011 GTR, which has this SVM 650R Cobb conversion done. i know by pressing the cancel button on the steering and then moving up and down the the toggle to choose the different maps 1 to 3 or is it 4 chooses the maps for you. But firstly do you have to press the cancel button again to activate the chosen map and secondly what performance do you get from the 3 or 4 different maps, what are they ? How does it effect the power, drive, performance ,the difference, on each map. Sorry to sound thick, ive never done conversion before, first time toying with one on it already. The access port didnt come with the car, but i was told thats only used for. Adjusting fuel ratio and ignition timing?
> Any advice or help would be kindly and greatfully appreciated my brothers.
> Regards
> Ziggy


It will depend upon how the tuner has set the maps. It could be changes in boost levels, different timing strategies (least likely) or maps for different fuel grades (most likely). Usually the map slots are for different fuels with the ability to select max boost using the cruise up/down during driving. You don't need to need to repress the cancel button after selection.

You can check by selecting the large boost gauge on your MFD then flooring it in 3rd with each map selected in turn and see if the max boost changes.


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## ziggy9128 (May 25, 2015)

Oh thats brilliant, thanks guys for the your help and info. Greatly appreciated . Respect!!


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Pics (drool...) and call today from Andy - long block all knitted back together. 

Fitting turbos, other ancillary bits and engine install today and tomorrow.

Then on with the other bits 'n pieces I've having attended to (trannie "fettle", new rubber all round, exhaust pipework.). Then initial run in etc and can start to think about collection.

Good progress after the slight delay in machine shop.


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Machine shop is a bit of an Achilles heel I think, one of those parts they have very little control over. That was the only real hold up on my build too.

Had these pics yesterday of mine, think it's being fired up today and run in miles started, picking mine up Friday at about 200 miles and doing the rest of the run in myself. Excited 

























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Looks like my battery went dead for some reason seeing as there's a charger connected to it. It's been there a while so I dare say trackers and stuff flattened it. Can't wait till Friday now


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Woohoo - Andy confirmed my car is all back together, no issues and he just needs to put a few more miles on it and play around with my transmission (it is schizophrenic! Sometime smooth as silk, other times it's like being rear ended by a truck!).

Will be going up next Saturday to collect. In light of John's recent troubles I am so glad to have splashed out on an ACSpeedtech forged build - peace of mind!

David


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

My new block and crank etc will be there this coming week and Gary said will go straight to the machine shop. I might run that to the end of the year and take that motor out as a spare and build a billet blocked motor.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Tinyflier said:


> Woohoo - Andy confirmed my car is all back together, no issues and he just needs to put a few more miles on it and play around with my transmission (it is schizophrenic! Sometime smooth as silk, other times it's like being rear ended by a truck!).
> 
> Will be going up next Saturday to collect. In light of John's recent troubles I am so glad to have splashed out on an ACSpeedtech forged build - peace of mind!
> 
> David


Stock or aftermarket clutch?


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

charles charlie said:


> Stock or aftermarket clutch?


Aftermarket.

Andy rebuilt my box last year (R-1-R select fail) and fitted new clutch plates then. Not sure which manufacturer but he did say they are more "grippy".

Since then we have played around with software and CPTP settings.but it still misbehaves at a whim!..I haven't been able to work out any pattern as to when it slips (reasonably) smoothly between gears but other times it tries to break your neck?


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> Woohoo - Andy confirmed my car is all back together, no issues and he just needs to put a few more miles on it and play around with my transmission (it is schizophrenic! Sometime smooth as silk, other times it's like being rear ended by a truck!).
> 
> Will be going up next Saturday to collect. In light of John's recent troubles I am so glad to have splashed out on an ACSpeedtech forged build - peace of mind!
> 
> David




Congrats mate, I'm near enough run in now, been really busy so I've still got 200 miles to go. You'll be impressed how well it performs, even with a running in map and a 4.5k revs limit! 

The extra response of the engine pre turbo is quite noticeable! 

Let me know how you get on, I think you're going to love it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Tinyflier said:


> Aftermarket.
> 
> Andy rebuilt my box last year (R-1-R select fail) and fitted new clutch plates then. Not sure which manufacturer but he did say they are more "grippy".
> 
> Since then we have played around with software and CPTP settings.but it still misbehaves at a whim!..I haven't been able to work out any pattern as to when it slips (reasonably) smoothly between gears but other times it tries to break your neck?


Takes a lot of fiddling with torque tables to get perfect shifting.

My xtreme clutch kit is flawless now but it wasn't always the case.


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

Hoping my engine will be finished this week although I'm getting ACS to do the run-in period for me.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

billythefish said:


> Hoping my engine will be finished this week although I'm getting ACS to do the run-in period for me.


I'm up there soon, I'm going to run your car in..... in 1st gear at 7500rpm 

You must be mega excited


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

Stealth69 said:


> I'm up there soon, I'm going to run your car in..... in 1st gear at 7500rpm
> 
> You must be mega excited


How very kind of you Tone, thank you sir!

Yes I'll be glad to get her back, it's been 6 weeks already and reckon it'll be another 4 before it's fully run in! :rotz:


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

billythefish said:


> Hoping my engine will be finished this week although I'm getting ACS to do the run-in period for me.


why not run it in yourself? Didn't think they would have time, to spend jollying round putting 100's of miles on yer car..


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

Chronos said:


> why not run it in yourself? Didn't think they would have time, to spend jollying round putting 100's of miles on yer car..


It's a 300 mile round trip for me and with oil changes at 50/200/500/1000 the only feasible run-in I could do would be 500-1000. To be honest I just want to pick up and go with full power available to me!  One of the guys will use it to go too and from work so hopefully it won't take too long to rack them up....


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

billythefish said:


> It's a 300 mile round trip for me and with oil changes at 50/200/500/1000 the only feasible run-in I could do would be 500-1000. To be honest I just want to pick up and go with full power available to me!  One of the guys will use it to go too and from work so hopefully it won't take too long to rack them up....


fair play bud :thumbsup: Looks like it's a good time to get forged, seems to be a lot of stage 4+ lately blowing/or near to like dudesvrs, and He was just lucky that He found his, as it was getting stripped down for forge..


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Andy doing initial runs on mine this week. 

From Warrington to home will put about 200 miles on mine.

Have a trip next weekend to Brands and weekend after to Silverstone - will fit in oil changes in between based on what Andy tells me!

David


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Chronos said:


> fair play bud :thumbsup: Looks like it's a good time to get forged, seems to be a lot of stage 4+ lately blowing/or near to like dudesvrs, and He was just lucky that He found his, as it was getting stripped down for forge..


Interesting, define a lot?


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

vxrcymru said:


> Interesting, define a lot?


I know of 9 inc mine recently and I think AC have a few others there from non forum members maybe.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

vxrcymru said:


> Interesting, define a lot?


5+ last and this year. Ive heard of here and on the battalion 35.


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> Andy doing initial runs on mine this week.
> 
> From Warrington to home will put about 200 miles on mine.
> 
> ...


Did exactly the same as you, they did the first couple of hundred and then I drove home which is the same as you, did a few hundred more and changed the oil. I've got about 200 left to do which will be completed by the time I get back from Japfest on Sunday... Then can get oil change to synth add finally get rid of the 4.5k limit and start to see what she really performs like!!!!!


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

CelticWebs said:


> finally get rid of the 4.5k limit and start to see what she really performs like!!!!!


Ahhh yes the 4.5k limit on the restricted map, how very annoying BUT essential! I remember it well. :chuckle:


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## CelticWebs (Apr 3, 2013)

Chronos said:


> Ahhh yes the 4.5k limit on the restricted map, how very annoying BUT essential! I remember it well. :chuckle:


To be fair though, it's far from slow even with the 4.5k limit and 1.2bar boost limit. I'm surprised at just how quick it already is considering it's also on a running in map!


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

CelticWebs said:


> To be fair though, it's far from slow even with the 4.5k limit and 1.2bar boost limit. I'm surprised at just how quick it already is considering it's also on a running in map!


Yeah I thought that too, it still moved well surprisingly, but then just as it really gets going.. "Buuurrggghhhhh" and it cuts the power. bahh humbug!

But mine was only for a week, got the miles on, remap and zoooooom ZOOOOM!


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Chronos said:


> 5+ last and this year. Ive heard of here and on the battalion 35.


Im afraid its a case of Tick Tock once past certain levels.


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Chronos said:


> 5+ last and this year. Ive heard of here and on the battalion 35.



Were these cars used on track, did the engines let go on track? 

I think a lot is to do with how you use it, running 600+ ftlbs on standard rods regular on track where you are going to consistently use full power is probably not sensible. even the current Nismo has less than 500ftlbs probably for a reason... 

My car is running 657ftlbs but it's a road car and i doubt if i use that full power.. Begs the question why run it on the car...



I


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

vxrcymru said:


> Were these cars used on track, did the engines let go on track?
> 
> I think a lot is to do with how you use it, running 600+ ftlbs on standard rods regular on track where you are going to consistently use full power is probably not sensible. even the current Nismo has less than 500ftlbs probably for a reason...
> 
> ...


I think track use is actually kinder to the motor in the terms of you should be up in the revs a lot of the time so avoiding high cylinder pressure at low rpm. My car was in the 700's and I use 100% of that a lot, you must hit 100% throttle whenn its quiet. Thing is what is it that cracked my block? So is it cracked blocks causing the thrown rod problem or vice versa. Mine cracked on the road months after its last drag run and on a normal rush hour drive and Mark Paynes threw a rod at 30mph in traffic. As im not sure if it was rod that caused it or block flex ive bought a Billet Girdle and will go billet block in future.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

dudersvr said:


> Im afraid its a case of Tick Tock once past certain levels.


Exactly! If you poodle round, and don't use the car's potential, and have stage 4+ then fine, but whey even bother having stage 4+, apart from bragging rights. If you drive spirited and have stage 4+ power level on a stock engine, its taking a large risk. But thats the owners decision. It may or may not go pop, but have a nice 15-20k ready, for if it does. Or even better, pre -forge for half the price!



vxrcymru said:


> Were these cars used on track, did the engines let go on track?
> I think a lot is to do with how you use it, running 600+ ftlbs on standard rods regular on track where you are going to consistently use full power is probably not sensible. even the current Nismo has less than 500ftlbs probably for a reason...
> My car is running 657ftlbs but it's a road car and i doubt if i use that full power.. Begs the question why run it on the car...
> I


all different types of cars tbh, but all where spirited driver's. And you've answered your own question, why do you think Nissan limit the torque to under 500lbft. They designed the car, they know the limits. So we at our own decision, push the torque to 620-700lbft and it will stress the rods, if the car is used as intended.

again - If you drive spirited and have stage 4+ power level on a stock engine, its taking a large risk. But thats the owners decision. It may or may not go pop, but have a nice 15-20k ready, for if it does. Or even better, pre -forge for half the price!


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Back home now after collecting my car from Andy.

Engine is running sweetly - Andy has completed first run & oil/filter change and we agreed I'll make another change between my Brands & Silverstone trips (be around 500 miles). 

Interestingly Andy wants NON synthetic oil (synth oil will elongate the run in period) - in his words "Just use Classic mineral oil @ £15!", then when I go back in 3 weeks time for another change he will switch to synthetic and put on the full map.

We have discovered I have a f-k-d bellhousing bearing (although the car had a Litchfield bellhousing fitted 3 years/26,000 miles ago), So we will get that sorted when I go back up PLUS am switching to an ACSpeedtech exhaust (currently running Japspeed, I have never really liked the sound it make - and it has changed tone quite significantly for the worse following the engine build).

Feels good to have the GTR back!

David


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## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2016)

Tinyflier said:


> Interestingly Andy wants NON synthetic oil (synth oil will elongate the run in period) - in his words "Just use Classic mineral oil @ £15!", then when I go back in 3 weeks time for another change he will switch to synthetic and put on the full map.


Andy is spot on. Fully synthetic oil is specially formulated to reduce as much as posible metal on metal wear. Problem with this is on a new build you have bearing and most importantly piston ring to run / bed in and a semi / fully synthetic oil will masivly prolong this and in some cases make it not possible. The end result of not running in properly is slightly down compression but most importantly very high oil consumption.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Teaboy said:


> Andy is spot on. Fully synthetic oil is specially formulated to reduce as much as posible metal on metal wear. Problem with this is on a new build you have bearing and most importantly piston ring to run / bed in and a semi / fully synthetic oil will masivly prolong this and in some cases make it not possible. The end result of not running in properly is slightly down compression but most importantly very high oil consumption.


Interestingly Protomotive in the US prob the foremost tuner of 996/7 turbos recommend a 20/50 mineral oil for their built motors which normally run a 0/40 Mobil One.


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Just bought 2 * 5l tins of Halfords "Classic" oil- (Mineral 20W/50) ready for change.


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

It was a bit of a trauma but we got there in the end!

Having completed about 1,000 miles (with interim oil & filer change at 500) I dropped the car back at ACSpeedtech for change to fully synthetic oil, remap to remove the reduced power/torque settings, have a new ACSpeedtech exhaust and replacement of bellhousing (they had detected a lot of noise when reassembling car – despite this being a Litchfield replacement unit about 30k ago).

Dropped car off on the Friday and Saturday afternoon Andy called to say all jobs done… BUT… (Oh no – don’t you hate those conversations!). He had noticed when doing the remap runs/datalog checks that “something odd” was happening to one of the exhaust cam timing and the exhaust note didn’t sound quite right. Suspicion was that one of the cam pulleys was not behaving correctly.

We talked it over and decided front of engine needed to be stripped down for evaluation and correction. By now it was mid Saturday afternoon and Andy volunteered to work on my car the rest of the day AND Sunday to get it right.

True to his word late Sunday afternoon Andy called me. He had stripped down the front of the engine replaced the cam pulleys (exhaust only I think), timing chains and tensioners (although they were in tolerance we had agreed to replace them as an added precaution) and he just needed to do some runs to check maps/data logs. We agreed to leave that to the Monday morning.

I rocked up early Monday afternoon and work was all complete. MAXIMUM kudos to Andy for having put in a full working day on Sunday (on his own!) to get my car behaving the way he wanted it.

I’ve now racked up another 600 miles or so and it is absolutely spot on. Power delivery is smooth, instant and goes on and on and… 

The ACSpeedtech exhaust is superb – no drone and I no longer get bleeding ears when in the upper rev range (which you get to VERY quickly now with no fear of over stressing the components). 

I do get slight “piston slap” at low revs when picking up the throttle – Andy has reassured me this is to be expected on a forged engine. 

Although there were some unexpected issues over and above the planned “paranoia rebuild” – and it all taking a little longer than planned – the peace of mind to fully exploit the performance available is massive and I’m looking forward to giving the horses some serious exercise now. 

BIG vote of thanks to all at ACSpeedtech.

David


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Great to hear that Andy and his lads at ACS go that extra mile.

You've got the same RF exhaust as me it seems if it's nice and quiet with decatted downpipes. Lovely craftsmanship and makes the cabin so much more pleasant to be in.

I think many of us who might not have had forged engines before forget that they are not quite as smooth as stock. Some are (mine is near perfect tbh) but some can be a touch lumpy when cold/on start up and also may consume that bit more oil than a stock motor.

Glad to hear you've got it back anyways. 

Enjoy!


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## james_barker (Nov 17, 2016)

Interesting to read about 'piston slap' as I'd never heard if it before. Wouldn't have thought it an issue if all parts are same dimensions but stronger material. 

Be interested for anyone that's experienced it to describe it a little more. A forged build is sitting in my spank bank for future options and keen to understand a warts and all view. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Informative read here about forged engines and being a little noisier.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

james_barker said:


> Interesting to read about 'piston slap' as I'd never heard if it before. Wouldn't have thought it an issue if all parts are same dimensions but stronger material.
> 
> Be interested for anyone that's experienced it to describe it a little more. A forged build is sitting in my spank bank for future options and keen to understand a warts and all view.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


If you want your engine to feel and sound like stock then keep it stock.

If you want reassurance that the risk of engine failure is reduced at the expense of some stock characteristics then forge it.

There are things that can be done whilst forging that increase that difference from stock (more aggressive camshafts for instance) but that's the small price to pay for a solid engine or increased performance.

It's like brake pads. You want better performance, well they might make more dust and squeal a bit more than stock.

There's always some sort of compromise.

(edit: seen you live in Orpington. Shame as you could have seen how stock like my car is on tick over/start up)


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

charles charlie said:


> Great to hear that Andy and his lads at ACS go that extra mile.
> You've got the same RF exhaust as me it seems if it's nice and quiet with decatted downpipes. Lovely craftsmanship and makes the cabin so much more pleasant to be in.
> I think many of us who might not have had forged engines before forget that they are not quite as smooth as stock. Some are (mine is near perfect tbh) but some can be a touch lumpy when cold/on start up and also may consume that bit more oil than a stock motor.
> Glad to hear you've got it back anyways.
> Enjoy!


Congrats Tinyflier!! Few niggles along the way, but it bet it's great to have it back!

Well I've had my forged motor back 4 months now, mine has the piston slap noise as well at low revs, and i like it! a stock engine makes hardly any noise from the front = boring.. and now it sounds more beefier! I shall have to try and do a video of the noise, its quite subtle TBH.

charles charlie you say about oil consumption, I've had mine back as a FULL rebuild, new block and everything.. and its used virtually no oil in over 4k miles since I've had it back, talked to acspeed and they said thats OK, as basically my engine is brand new. It feels very smooth like a stock engine as well, just with added piston slap and mine has HKS cams as well. Idle is fine.

Whereas a forged engine from a current running engine may be different as you said, not sure if it would use more/less oil as you are only chopping out the existing rods/pistons and putting the forged ones in, rather than building from 0-100%.

I also have a Russ Fellows exhaust with Russ Fellows downpipes as well, it sounds nice on WOT and doesnt have the dredded drone either, which is sweet. Track friendly too, tho mines banned off track for now! haha


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Chronos said:


> charles charlie you say about oil consumption, I've had mine back as a FULL rebuild, new block and everything.. and its used virtually no oil in over 4k miles since I've had it back, talked to acspeed and they said thats OK, as basically my engine is brand new. It feels very smooth like a stock engine as well, just with added piston slap and mine has HKS cams as well. Idle is fine.
> 
> Whereas a forged engine from a current running engine may be different as you said, not sure if it would use more/less oil as you are only chopping out the existing rods/pistons and putting the forged ones in, rather than building from 0-100%.


Nissan actually state in the user manual that 1 litre per 1000km can be considered normal on a stock car.

Oil consumption varies according to lots of factors. 

Piston clearance, piston type (alloy especially), driving style, boost level, will all affect consumption. I'd even bet good money that 10 engines built to the same spec by the same engine builder will consume differing amounts of oil.

I was just highlighting that a built engine will behave differently to a stock one in ways you will notice (noise, oil consumption,smoothness etc).

None are bad, just different as the running components aren't the same as they were before.

Should also add that unless you send your used oil for analysis now and again you cannot be sure that it isn't diluted with fuel giving the impression you are using less.


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

I don't get any slap (!) on tickover and the engine idles very smoothly. 

As has been said each engine is going to be slightly different - Andy thinks mine is one of the quieter ones (!) and is convinced I'll simply stop hearing it after a while! Interestingly if I turn my head a couple of degrees to the side the noise "vanishes" - maybe I need to practice more sideways travel?

One other thing - I had sports cats put in the Y Pipes (downpipes are de-catted) - mainly to remove the fuel smell (evident BEFORE the forge build!) but also with a nod towards MOT Legality! Yes it robs me of a few bhp - but to be honest is it noticeable - of course it isn't!

David


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> I don't get any slap (!) on tickover and have the engine idles very smoothly.
> As has been said each engine is going to be slightly different - Andy thinks mine is one of the quieter ones (!) and is convinced I'll simply stop hearing it after a while! Interestingly if I turn my head a couple of degrees to the side the noise "vanishes" - maybe I need to practice more sideways travel?
> David


Yeah i don't get slap on tickover, just some slap vocals on gradual acceleration.

and TBH yes Andy is right, I don't notice my slap as much now, it's just part of forged engine loveliness! :chuckle:


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