# JamieP



## AdnanK (Jun 11, 2013)

Where's he gone? Has he still got his GT-R?


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

Nope The ZehHead brought it and think Jamie has a Supra again


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## AdnanK (Jun 11, 2013)

JapFreak786 said:


> Nope The ZehHead brought it and think Jamie has a Supra again


Wonder what made him change back.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

he has always loved supras... he has had 4 or 5 of them


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## AdnanK (Jun 11, 2013)

grahamc said:


> he has always loved supras... he has had 4 or 5 of them


See he has a lovely white one now. He didn't seem to have his GT-R for long. Maybe reliability issues?


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

AdnanK said:


> See he has a lovely white one now. He didn't seem to have his GT-R for long. Maybe reliability issues?


GTR isnt everyones things, maybe he just find the Supra more interesting.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Rain said:


> GTR isnt everyones things, maybe he just find the Supra more interesting.


This.

I do like the R35, but after three of them I'm enjoying an older R32.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

He probably likes more driver involvement aswell as the power.. Good luck to him with whatever he chooses .


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

CT17 said:


> This.
> 
> I do like the R35, but after three of them I'm enjoying an older R32.


How do the running costs compare Richard?


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## Mrw (Aug 22, 2012)

Where did his build thread go ?


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

gtr mart said:


> How do the running costs compare Richard?


Depends, they can be equally as bad, or way better, depends how far you want to go.


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## AdnanK (Jun 11, 2013)

Takamo said:


> He probably likes more driver involvement aswell as the power.. Good luck to him with whatever he chooses .


He's gone back to the Supra platform. Can't go wrong with a 6 speed Supra TT, shame the R35 isn't as well built.


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

I follow Jamie on fb and have to say the supra he has bought looks absolutely mint :bowdown1: 

I believe he swapped back because he loves the supra and it has a great club. Some of their runs out look epic.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

gtr mart said:


> How do the running costs compare Richard?


It's a toy so daily running costs don't come into it really.
It's just a lot cheaper to tune. :chuckle:


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

saucyboy said:


> I follow Jamie on fb and have to say the supra he has bought looks absolutely mint :bowdown1:
> 
> I believe he swapped back because he loves the supra and it has a great club. Some of their runs out look epic.


New supra is rather nice 

Im also on the Supra forum/club, lifetime member, this one isnt far off 

The mkiv Supra Owners Club!
Unfortunately, its members only


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

Hey guys, yeah I went back to Supras for a while, I missed the club stuff and RWD. 

I might get another GTR in a couple of years but I will keep a Supra this time.


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## tinimark (Dec 3, 2012)

Anywhere we can see some pics of the Supra Jamie?


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## samgtr (Aug 4, 2010)

Yeah get some pics up, love a good looking black supra


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

I don't really have any decent ones yet. I built it from a stock low miles TT6 now running 670bhp on a Precision 6266, I've got a few more bits to do yet, will get it to about 750bhp and leave it there.


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## woundedgoat (Oct 7, 2012)

JamieP said:


> I don't really have any decent ones yet. I built it from a stock low miles TT6 now running 670bhp on a Precision 6266, I've got a few more bits to do yet, will get it to about 750bhp and leave it there.


Thats a beauty Jamie :bowdown1:


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Nice


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

The Supra club really does put this club to shame with events.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

what's the difference?


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

Club events at Santapod,
Lots of drives out,
Euro trips (I know GTROC do them but they're a bit ...),
Etc


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

should we change that?


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

It's not up to me.
I just know that the Supra club is more pro-active in Events. Yes, the GTROC have a lot of track days, but that doesn't appeal to everyone. Some want drives out, too.

We own fast-road cars, not race cars, that's all I'm saying. We need to mix it up a bit.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

use the forum, organize outside of the GTROC.

If i recall dont regional reps do meet and drives etc?


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

Yea, we do meet up once a month in the NW.

My friends and I do our own things, but it's a shame there's not more going on.


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

Supra club is epic, it's a non profit members club, all club earnings go back into organising events for the members. 

Where as this place is a business.


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

JamieP said:


> This place is a business.


Nail. Head.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

JamieP said:


> Supra club is epic, it's a non profit members club, all club earnings go back into organising events for the members.
> 
> Where as this place is a business.


The forum is a business, the GTROC is a not for profit club - two separate entities.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Johnny G said:


> Nail. Head.


Nail. Thumb. 

The forum is a commercial entity as part of a huge network BUT the day to day running is by its members. Any user can arrange events as part of the forum experience

The CLUB which is separate to the forum, organises events for its paid members and have nothing to do with the forum bar using this place as a "lounge" in which to discuss them. 

So, how the forum is run and whether or not you arrange meets, are different things. 

Hope that helps

Mook


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## evogeof (Aug 3, 2014)

Johnny G said:


> Club events at Santapod,
> Lots of drives out,
> Euro trips (I know GTROC do them but they're a bit ...),
> Etc


 you want to go to santapod?? have you been before ??


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Mookistar said:


> Nail. Thumb.
> 
> The forum is a commercial entity as part of a huge network BUT the day to day running is by its members. Any user can arrange events as part of the forum experience
> 
> ...


Sorry but I have to disagree.... 

Events (EuroTour, Track days, special prices) are only available to Executive Members which we have to pay to be.... the supra club is just that, its a club for owners. After 3 years, you become a lifetime member. 

For example, they hire out Santa Pod for a day any profits made go straight back into arranging other events. Club calendars, clothes, items, etc all profits go to arranging other events.

I suggest you go spend time on the forum and find out the difference, because there is definitely a different feeling there. I havent owned a Supra for many years, but I am still on the forum and go to some of the events albeit in the GTR. The club spirit is epic :bowdown1:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the "business" comment. If it was aimed at the forum I'd point out that the club is a separate entity. 

If the comment was aimed at the way the club is run, that's nothing to do with me or the forum. 

Again, there is nothing to stop Forum users arranging events and things. Obviously we encourage users to join the club as they arrange a lot of social events. But if they don't suit you you can set stuff up independently via the forum

Mook


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Mookistar said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding the "business" comment. If it was aimed at the forum I'd point out that the club is a separate entity.
> 
> If the comment was aimed at the way the club is run, that's nothing to do with me or the forum.
> 
> ...


For us, the club is everything, all aspects. Traders are around for the benefit of the club members, not the other way around.

Its very different!


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

On the supra club, events are subsidised by the club.
That's not the case here. Is it?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Johnny G said:


> On the supra club, events are subsidised by the club.
> That's not the case here. Is it?


I don't know. I'm not a member. GTROC.org would have all the details. 

Again. Forum - club : seperate


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

Wonder if it's time for the GTROC.org and the forum to split to promote the GTROC more. 
Just a thought.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

That's makes no sense?!?! How would a split promote them more. There are to restraints on here, they can promote as much as they like plus they get the benefit of our huge audience. The issue is perhaps more of a club management question and worth addressing at the forthcoming AGM if you want to have your voice heard as a member.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Mookistar said:


> I don't know. I'm not a member. GTROC.org would have all the details.
> 
> Again. Forum - club : seperate


If separate.... 

Where do Executive Member fees go Forum or Club?
Where do profits from clothing, keychains, etc go?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

grahamc said:


> If separate....
> 
> Where do Executive Member fees go Forum or Club?
> Where do profits from clothing, keychains, etc go?


All to GTROC, forum receives nothing from it.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

grahamc said:


> If separate....
> 
> Where do Executive Member fees go Forum or Club?
> Where do profits from clothing, keychains, etc go?


Every single penny the club generates goes to the club. 

I can categorically say the club has not given the forum one single penny for a good few years now. The membership upgrades I apply on the forum are a courtesy I extend to the club on a purely voluntary basis

Again. All club revenue goes into the club coffers. What they do with it, I have no Idea.

I hope that clarifies?

Mik


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

We GTROC members prefer NOT to have the local riff raff about athankyou


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

So the forum organizes all the events, has all the members and the info, but the club receives the money. 

Is the club run as "for profit"?

What about the traders fees... club or forum? 

The main issue is the separation of something like this, where the forum generates all the interest and the club gets all the rewards. 

Anyone know why it was ever created separately? Why was it never one and the same thing?


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

If you go back far enough, I THINK they used to hold hand and skip together. something along the way made them get mad at each other and they broke up  

Traders pay to advertise on the Forum, not the club.

Forums doesn't (as far as i know) directly organize anything, the members here might, the club uses it as a place to come and say 'yooo peeps, lookit what we be doings with yo dollah bills yoooo' and If you are a member of the GTROC you get to go, if not, you dont.

Forum and Club

Club uses Forum as soap box.

Forum is owned by multi million £ corporation but has let Mike and the other people mod it and run it.

Its not that hard to see or figure out, people just assume its one and the same I guess?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

grahamc said:


> So the forum organizes all the events, has all the members and the info, but the club receives the money.
> 
> Is the club run as "for profit"?
> 
> ...


The only revenue the forum gets is via the traders. Everything else is the club and it is not for profit. But again please check via GTROC.org

The relationship is long and complicated but the members own the club own the club so you must make your voices heard if you would like things to be done different.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Rain said:


> Traders pay to advertise on the Forum, not the club.


They do but some traders pay (separately) to advertise on GTROC.org as well so maybe that is why it appears confusing?


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

TAZZMAXX said:


> They do but some traders pay (separately) to advertise on GTROC.org as well so maybe that is why it appears confusing?


Didnt know...I don't actually visit the GTROC site much...I dont actually remember why i became a member either :chuckle:


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

TAZZMAXX said:


> They do but some traders pay (separately) to advertise on GTROC.org as well so maybe that is why it appears confusing?


I dont think its only that :chuckle:

Thanks for the info all, it all just seems over-complicated.


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## evogeof (Aug 3, 2014)

Any particular reason why gtroc have not got a forum then?? 

So if in the future when I finally find my car I want to display it on a stand at shows I have to become a paid member of gtroc?? 

This place is gtr.co.uk which is a forum only?? 

I'm a tad confused but I think I'm getting there


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

grahamc said:


> I dont think its only that :chuckle:
> 
> Thanks for the info all, it all just seems over-complicated.



Its all those Supra peoples fault...them and their open friendly club of goody two shoes.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

evogeof said:


> Any particular reason why gtroc have not got a forum then??
> 
> So if in the future when I finally find my car I want to display it on a stand at shows I have to become a paid member of gtroc??
> 
> ...


Me too....



Rain said:


> Its all those Supra peoples fault...them and their open friendly club of goody two shoes.


Fun and free, its like the 60s all over again..... well I assume it is


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

evogeof said:


> Any particular reason why gtroc have not got a forum then??
> 
> So if in the future when I finally find my car I want to display it on a stand at shows I have to become a paid member of gtroc??
> 
> ...


Why bother if this place allows them to host here? Both are established 'brands' for a long time, no reason to.

Yeah probably if you want to be part of the cool kids club :runaway:

gtr.co.uk is a badly laid out site that has no reason to be there... other than probably some background dramallama that we dont want to hear about.

but gtr.co.uk/forum is where you are now 

baby steps 

edit: If you want to display your car at a show, there are more options than the club stand. The people building your car may love to have it to represent the work they do. You could reach out to your favorite supplier of parts and ask if they would like your car as a demo..etc..etc


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## evogeof (Aug 3, 2014)

Rain said:


> Why bother if this place allows them to host here? Both are established 'brands' for a long time, no reason to.
> 
> Yeah probably if you want to be part of the cool kids club :runaway:
> 
> ...


Baby steps you just confuse me more :chuckle:

I've already got them options covered. Forge, Litchfield, samco sport,Opie oils


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

Supra club and forum is one, all money from members/traders/advertising goes back into events for its club members. Nobody gets paid anything, the guy that started the club does it purely for the love of the brand.

I honestly don't understand the setup here. From what I can tell the club (GTROC) is a buisness that somebody owns and gets the money from members fee's and advertising. The forum is non profit and gets the money just from the traders? I take it that money goes back into events?


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

lol not again


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

JamieP said:


> Supra club and forum is one, all money from members/traders/advertising goes back into events for its club members. Nobody gets paid anything, the guy that started the club does it purely for the love of the brand.
> 
> I honestly don't understand the setup here. From what I can tell the club (GTROC) is a buisness that somebody owns and gets the money from members fee's and advertising. The forum is non profit and gets the money just from the traders? I take it that money goes back into events?


But the forum is owned by some other business. It's all very messy.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

JamieP said:


> Supra club and forum is one, all money from members/traders/advertising goes back into events for its club members. Nobody gets paid anything, the guy that started the club does it purely for the love of the brand.
> 
> I honestly don't understand the setup here. From what I can tell the club (GTROC) is a buisness that somebody owns and gets the money from members fee's and advertising. The forum is non profit and gets the money just from the traders? I take it that money goes back into events?


I'll say it for a third time. 

Forum - just the board to post on. No events or merchandising or anything. Generates revenue through traders. Which has always been the case for the last 10+ years. That revenue has never gone to the club. 

Club - paid membership, subsidised events, merchandising - all revenue goes back towards member events etc

Again. If you are a GTROC member and want different types of event or greater clarity of wherever fees go, then attend the club AGM or speak to a club representative. 

Mook


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## Firestarter (Mar 8, 2014)

I blame David Cameron:chuckle::chuckle:


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

JamieP said:


> Supra club and forum is one, all money from members/traders/advertising goes back into events for its club members. Nobody gets paid anything, the guy that started the club does it purely for the love of the brand.
> 
> I honestly don't understand the setup here. From what I can tell the club (GTROC) is a buisness that somebody owns and gets the money from members fee's and advertising. The forum is non profit and gets the money just from the traders? I take it that money goes back into events?


Right hopefully I can explain.....

Above is correct but wrong way round.

The Forum (this site, GTR.co.uk) is owned by a Company and is sponsored by various traders. Those traders have a commercial contract with gtr.co.uk and not a penny of that comes to the club or members. Vice versa the club membership uses this as discussion forum (lounge as Mook said) and we are not for profit and the forum doesn't take anything from club members. Two separate legal entities. Don't ask me how it ended up this way - it just did as things sometimes do!

The GTR Owners Club. The official owners club for GTR, Skyline and Stagea. Recognised by Nissan GB and Europe. Our Honorary President is Tamura -san (who has met a number of members) who is current R35 Chief Engineer and also helped design the R32. A real legend and shows the history and respect the club has from Nissan.

It has been going 11 years and is totally not for profit. To confirm not one penny of monies goes to anyone other than running the club for the members. The club exec (it is a formal, registered not for profit) are voted in, as volunteers, annually at the AGM. They then serve for one year. Currently I am chairman, Ross Vice Chairman, Malcolm (blue34) Secretary and Ian (IMS) Treasurer. All other people who assist in the running of everything like Kriss, BarryP, Fuggles, NurburgringGTR, Dave Wilkins, Ludders, Malc, etc etc (sorry if missed people) along with regional reps etc are all unpaid volunteers.

The club runs events like tours, track days, sprint series along with events like ten of the best, Asda day, silverstone track days and regional reps organise Ace Cafe etc. We would love to do more but there is only so much time and a few people.

All the monies from memberships and any (small) profits from merchandise etc goes to things like event shelters, funding events like track days from cash flow, website etc - everything is run as proper accounts basis by the Treasurer (partner in accountancy firm) as is transparent for any member who wants to see them.

The club also provides members with things that a traditional forum can't do like Nissan giving us access too events (N24, the Le Mans trips people have got pit access, GT3 races and the day Kriss organised at Brands Hatch for instance). We also help a significant number of members behind the scenes that are not on here for obvious reasons with queries and issues with Nissan - a massive amount that isn't appropriate to discuss in public. We are trying, for instance, to get 15+ places at the Nissan Europe Event at N24 - the third year we have been invited even though Nissan GB isn't in that same business unit. It gives the members a chance to do things that usually you don't have access to.


It is only because of these people who give up countless hours to make the club what it is - if they didn't it would cease to exist which would be a great shame. 

We are also (there are not many cars on the road) a very small club relatively speaking. Believe me anyone who wishes to help out as a member or join and organise anything please let me know. Organising a run out etc is great help and makes all the difference for a local area especially if they become regular. Every little bit, no matter how small you think it is, helps all the members.

I haven't been as active as I would like as we all do this in our spare time. Not a moan just a fact. Lots of clubs have full time or salaried people helping and significantly more funds. We can't subsidise events as we don't make a lot of money! It does make me a touch dejected when people suggest the club is elitist or just for a select few. Membership is £45 or additional £95 for life. The price of a tank of fuel or two? I am not convinced that is remotely elitist. Once you are in for life you can come back and join in - anytime. How can that be a bad or privileged thing? That is pretty much the only money we get - without it there wouldn't be a club along with kind sponsors of the club itself like Akrapovic, PPG, Zircotec and Pfitzner

Hope this adds a bit of clarity and puts the two entities issue to bed? Any queries please PM me 
or email [email protected].


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

So the club is the forum and a business and also a charity....got it!


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Thought i would correct one teeny point
When it was started the stagea owners club used to use this forum as its home and had its own section . As it got larger it became able to run a dedicated forum for stageas only so the members voted to move to its owndedicated forum which is still running as is the owners club. Both are owned and run and funded by the club .
Quite a few of the members still post here as well in fact a fair number have a skyline as well


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Rain said:


> So the club is the forum and a business and also a charity....got it!


I love your sense of humour:chuckle:

Sometimes I thing the actual club GTROC ? GTR Owners Club should register as a charity as it is becoming increasingly difficult to balance the books yet still offer the great deals on tyres, brakes, track days and trips etc.

Not moaning as we do it because we enjoy it - 90% of the time and when time allows.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

grahamc said:


> Sorry but I have to disagree....
> 
> Events (EuroTour, Track days, special prices) are only available to Executive Members which we have to pay to be:


Sorry to be pedantic Graham but all the above are for standard GTROC members and only some of the tyres and brakes are for Executive members. We have tried to make the Executive Club a bit more special but in reality it is really another name for lifetime membership in the main.


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## evogeof (Aug 3, 2014)

nurburgringgtr said:


> Sorry to be pedantic Graham but all the above are for standard GTROC members and only some of the tyres and brakes are for Executive members. We have tried to make the Executive Club a bit more special but in reality it is really another name for lifetime membership in the main.


Sorry to be a pest but what does the lifetime membership offer. Sorry I'm pretty new here


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Lifetime membership is for life once paid.

You currently get extra discounts off Toyo tyres, brake discs and pads etc through the GTROC shop.

Also Executive (Lifetime) members get the special invites from Nissan to various motorsport events and meetings and we have to price certain events differently for 'Specials' that come around a few times a year.

As time goes by there will be other items that will be offered for Lifetime members that we wont offer to standard GTROC members, but these will be few and far between. Generally speaking it is the equivalent of two years free membership but for life.

I am not on the board of the GTROC, just a worker and volunteer that helps with Motorsport events and trackdays etc. 
I also have regular meetings with Nissan to discuss future plans and to bring up issues that both regular members and Lifetime members may be having regarding warranty and their Nissan HPC's. If a Lifetime member has an issue, clearly we will spend more time attempting to resolve issues, but I have to say that we have a remarkably good success rate with Nissan GB.


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## evogeof (Aug 3, 2014)

nurburgringgtr said:


> Lifetime membership is for life once paid.
> 
> You currently get extra discounts off Toyo tyres, brake discs and pads etc through the GTROC shop.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. Soon as I've finly purchased my gtr it would be rude not to take advantage on the life membership. Think I read somewhere that it goes before a panel ?? That's me goosed then :chuckle: is this where I need to be to display my future car on stands at shows ?? In prime locations and not in a muddy field


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

No panel, no questions - just pay your money and away you go!


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## evogeof (Aug 3, 2014)

nurburgringgtr said:


> No panel, no questions - just pay your money and away you go!


Ok nice one thanks


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Rain said:


> If you go back far enough, I THINK they used to hold hand and skip together.


Forum and OC have always been seperate. The forum was around a couple before the OC, which started after Fuggles, Booty, Scott, BlowDog, and some others wanted to start a club. BlowDog, who owned the forum at the time, gave the OC a free home.

The arrival of the 35 (lots of noobs) and the OC.org site is what has caused the majority of confusion in recent years.




ROG350Z said:


> Our Honorary President is Tamura-san (who has met a number of members) who is current R35 Chief Engineer and also helped design the R32.


Was also lead engineer on the R33 and R34 GT-Rs.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Lol who told you it went to a panel!

That would be hilarious, i could imaging a panel of judges sitting there with us on stage, demonstrating our talents will will bring to the club LOL!

Id come as a mime...that cant shutup.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

moleman said:


> Forum and OC have always been seperate. The forum was around a couple before the OC, which started after Fuggles, Booty, Scott, BlowDog, and some others wanted to start a club. BlowDog, who owned the forum at the time, gave the OC a free home.
> 
> The arrival of the 35 (lots of noobs) and the OC.org site is what has caused the majority of confusion in recent years.
> 
> ...


Yeah I maybe took the fact that BD owned the forum and was somewhere up there in the OC to make the possibility of a link back then, i was young, and foolish. Not im just foolish.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)




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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


>


Long time no see.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

long time member, short time lurker
Was fed up with mine not being on the road, so stayed away lol


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> long time member, short time lurker
> Was fed up with mine not being on the road, so stayed away lol


Is it done yet?
I've moved from the R35's to a 32.
Loving it.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

It is indeed.
Yeah so I see, looks lovely mate and I bet its nice having something to do with your left leg again


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

MIKEGTR said:


> It is indeed.
> Yeah so I see, looks lovely mate and I bet its nice having something to do with your left leg again


We need more info. 
Hopefully in the Skyline section. :chuckle:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Here's a sneaky one


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

JamieP said:


> Supra club is epic, it's a non profit members club, all club earnings go back into organising events for the members.
> 
> Where as this place is a business.


I was a member there between 1998-2001 when I owned a TT Supra. Remember how great place it was and went along to some events and met some of the members who were all great. wonder if the likes of Ian W and Justin Fodden still around? I know Chris Wilson was there at the time and he is now here also.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

FRRACER said:


> I was a member there between 1998-2001 when I owned a TT Supra. Remember how great place it was and went along to some events and met some of the members who were all great. wonder if the likes of Ian W and Justin Fodden still around? I know Chris Wilson was there at the time and he is now here also.


ChrisW is still over there and a lot more active......... :runaway:


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