# New Clutch Kit by SVM



## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Hi everyone !,

Just a sneak preview into our new clutch system, Full detailed information will be shared with you all on our new website very shortly to go live, We are working around the clock at the mo !


*16 Carbon Plates*
*20% *Greater Surface area (Larger diameter plates and steels)
Billet Machined Baskets for Superior Strength (larger sizes to carry above)
1000bhp + and above Capability 
12 Months Development
Tested by *SVM* Cars
Designed, Engineered & Manufactured in *UK*

Full Appraisal & Reports shortly, the Future is looking Bright 

A few snaps to share with you & I hope you all like !
:thumbsup:

From CAD Drawings ......



















To Reality.......





































Regards

KK


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## *MAGIC* (Oct 21, 2009)

Why do they make these things so dam good looking when no one see's it....lol


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

*MAGIC* said:


> Why do they make these things so dam good looking when no one see's it....lol


I like metal objects LOL
They will be also *very* exclusive,to uk outlet's*.SVM *and *GTC*
Agree i cant stop looking at them  

Ben at GTC has been very kind in supplying various 14 plate and 16 plate systems over the past 2yrs, With this help. and Research by ourselves, we hope this product will stand out from the Norm.It is the first world's "wide plate" carbon clutch system on the market, and robust enough for Drag and road race applications.:thumbsup:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

If only u had your own section to post things in


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## [email protected] (Jul 6, 2012)

Hows that going to work compared to the 20 plate from the competitors?


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## Beedub (Aug 13, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Hows that going to work compared to the 20 plate from the competitors?


good question.....;-)


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I'd like to know just how much >1000bhp testing has actually been done, plus what's the torque rating which is actually more important?

Are the clutch plates higher friction than stock and have you increased the hydraulic clamping pressure?


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## gtrsam (Oct 27, 2005)

+1..


Adamantium said:


> I'd like to know just how much >1000bhp testing has actually been done, plus what's the torque rating which is actually more important?
> 
> Are the clutch plates higher friction than stock and have you increased the hydraulic clamping pressure?


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

MIKEGTR said:


> If only u had your own section to post things in


Don't worry Mike, this sort of Product wants to Be Pasted and copied everywhere .....
kk


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Adamantium said:


> I'd like to know just how much >1000bhp testing has actually been done, plus what's the torque rating which is actually more important?
> 
> Are the clutch plates higher friction than stock and have you increased the hydraulic clamping pressure?


Pleanty testing i assure you, we have fitted over 50 clutch systems, 
On engines up to and over 1000bhp,we have good knowledge in this area  SVM have had fantastic results from this set up..yes the plates are higher friction based, being actually wider and made from carbon,we have even tested back to back against promax 19plate systems, that use thinner and narrower plates,The promax is over 3k more !!!  
We are happy, our customers will be happy ..
The fact the clamping force is greater is just the reason why hydralic clamping presure can stay at a reasonable level, also because the billet baskets are larger, the steels are thicker and stronger than most use,
We will and are testing testing testing!!and very happy they can be released KK


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Hows that going to work compared to the 20 plate from the competitors?


Hi joe, we hope and believe on par :thumbsup:from my experiance with Dodsun clutches
We believe, as these units have more surface area and use stronger thicker steel plate's they will not overheat as easy ...more testing will be done,
4 sure, but for now "Happy":thumbsup:
kk


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Seems strange some companies on hear do no R&D and fit parts from competitors arsenal and then proclaim their own, SVM has been the fore front in some design features on R35s we have our own , manifolds, turbos, throttles, cir clips,clutch systems ,induction systems,air intakes,intercoolers,pipe work, and much much more,why are we met with such hostility? as before guy's will follow  

Can i say i have a very strong business with a strong customer base that support the work SVM does, we find again the usual few hater's, thankfully not representative of the community, the majority i believe deserve to see what's new imo.

The clutch systems posted on hear have taken nearly 12 months hard work to perfect,and a great cost and investment, as we up our own goals and desires the clutch systems will 
under go further Questions, I felt strongly a more durable system needed to be indorsed,

Up to Now, i have had them back to back tested against two 19 plate promax,two 14 gtc and two 16 plate GTC pac's. It is not professional for me to condemn other companies product's to promote our own, for now we have said this is a pre view, of what will eventually be going mainstream.

For now, a chosen few will be having the pleasure of giving feedback on these unique bespoke units, again i reiterate i am very happy with the initial results and are pleased to supply and fit them to our monster cars , i will let the cars and products do the talking.

Regards 

kk



Proprietor of Severn Valley Motorsport


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Don't worry Mike, this sort of Product wants to Be Pasted and copied everywhere .....
> kk


Or maybe u could just do what the rest of the traders do on here and post in their own sections. 

I'm sure the mods will move as necessary as per the recent requests from mook for people to post in the correct sections


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## Gavinsan (May 28, 2012)

Hi Kev and thanks for posting what looks to be a fabulous product which you have clearly put a lot of time and effort into developing for the benefit of the members on here. I am sure the question from Adam that appeared slightly curt was just inquisitive and perhaps typed out in a hurry? I am sure the members genuinely appreciate your efforts and products along with your expertise on anything r35 related


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I should explain that I am typing from Greece on an iPhone on a wifi connection that drops every five mins!

Not trying to be antagonistic. I have real questions that need answers as I will be in te market for transmission mods next.

So heres the bit I don't undertand, to which I'd love an answer. 

If the hydraulic pressure is the same, then since pressure = force/area, if the area is 20% higher, the force applied to the plates' surfaces is actually 20% lower.

Since force (transmitted)= coefficient of friction x perpendicular reaction force (force calculated above)

To convert force applied to torque applied you need to multiply by radius.

Unless your coefficient of friction is 20% higher won't you actually be transmitting less torque from input to output?

My maths is seriously rusty so please feel free to pick whatever holes in I you lie as at the moment I just don't understand.

I guess an easily parallel to illustrate my point is dry clutches, they increase torque holding by raising the spring pressure and reducing the area of pad material (see button or paddle clutches).

Brake pad theory says the same thing but is a compromise because smaller pad area leads to greater localised heating of the disk which leads to premature failure.

I'm really not trying to be a hater or antagonise, I genuinely can't work out were the flaw is in my thinking and would be very happy to be set straight. 

Also can you please explain how you test a clutch against another without having a rig similar to an engine dyno (I'm guessing) which concurrently pushes the same torque across both in the same conditions and measures the slip on the output side?


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## andyg (Apr 1, 2012)

^^^^
what adam said lol


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

andyg said:


> ^^^^
> what adam said lol


Hilarious , Does his supplier have the same third degree ?,
It about time for a change in attitude and a little respect given,,,
We will not lower ourselves and spoil his thread (a very boring run of the mill car and post imo)
kk


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Guys
I am going to pull every new product thread from litchfields, Japspeed, jm, whifbitz and the rest

Unless these threads all feature similar posts i am going start looking into people's posting patterns on SVM threads. 
I'm getting tired of them still being attacked

They gave it billy big bollocks when they first arrived. Since then they have pretty much met every goal they set and Thier cars are currently the quickest in the UK

If I don't see a similar pattern on the threads I find, I will demand an an end to this witch hunt and start dishing out infraction for people who stir for the sake of it

Just saying s'all

Mook


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Er, I don't perceive Adam's post as being a "hater" one, just asking for education on what makes a "better" clutch system?


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Why do people fit multi plate clutch's to the earlier GTR's , more friction area with the SAME clamping force will take more torque/BHP.

More plates in the 35GTR clutches will transmit more torque at the same pressure. More plate area will take more heat and have a bigger capacity to dissipate the extra heat caused by more bhp/torque during gear changes.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

David.Yu said:


> Er, I don't perceive Adam's post as being a "hater" one, just asking for education on what makes a "better" clutch system?


That's fine. So long as such questions are asked for the right reasons. It's not just this thread but part of a larger pattern.


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

I think, due to the plates being stacked on top of each other that the pressure is not divided as you would think. So its an increase in area with no drop in pressure due to the stacking. Each plate still receives the full spring pressure of the plate above and below, The pressure would only be divided if the individual plates had the area increased.

I know I didn't explain that very well, But Multi plate clutches are superior for the same clamping pressure.

P.S. That's a nice looking bit of kit by the way Kev.


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## markleach (Jun 29, 2009)

Adamantium said:


> I should explain that I am typing from Greece on an iPhone on a wifi connection that drops every five mins!
> 
> Not trying to be antagonistic. I have real questions that need answers as I will be in te market for transmission mods next.
> 
> ...


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

markleach said:


> All I can say is this guy must be having a really crap holiday,bet he's a real bundle of laughs at dinner


Best post of the thread so far, after the original one by SVM. :chuckle:
How's the holiday going?

I always thought pressure would be the same irrespective of the surface area. Assuming the pressure is regulated in some way.
29psi in a big tyre is not less than 29psi in a small tyre... no ?


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

Adam asked a perfectly good question, Why are you guys ripping on him ? Do either of you know the answer ?


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## gtrsam (Oct 27, 2005)

I have to agree whats wrong with asking questions ? What you(Mooki) suggest is that if a dealer say that their part is the best in the universe we should just accept it and pay with no logs of data etc. that support their claim ? 



David.Yu said:


> Er, I don't perceive Adam's post as being a "hater" one, just asking for education on what makes a "better" clutch system?


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

CT17 said:


> I always thought pressure would be the same irrespective of the surface area. Assuming the pressure is regulated in some way.
> 29psi in a big tyre is not less than 29psi in a small tyre... no ?


The internal pressure of the tyre is the same, The volume of air is higher, What changes on a larger tyre is the contact area with the ground, So now you have more surface area in contact but the same mass pressing on the axle, Hence your tyre contact PSI goes down, So fitting wider tyres will not increase grip in the way you might imagine.

The same will happen with as single plate clutch if you increase its surface area the contact PSI is reduced, But if you get 2 or more clutches and stack them on top of each other they all get the same PSI pressure from force pushing on them. Thus increasing area without reducing the pressure on any individual clutch. 

I'm trying to think of an analogy that would help.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

No. What I'm saying is I am going to check that other traders receive the same demands for proof and evidence. 

As customers you are perfectly with your rights to ask a trader questions, I wouldn't want to stifle or censor that but it does seem some traders "word" is worth more to users than others. 

That's all. I just want a level playing field. 

Mook


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

OK, Say you have 2 beer mats and a Pint of beer.

So on one mat you put a pint and get 1 pint per square mat.

Now put 2 mats side by side, to spread the beer evenly you put 0.5 pint on each mat, Still have 1 pint in total, but now the pressure on each mat is reduced by half. So, 0.5 pint per square mat.

Now stack the beer mats on top of each other, Place the pint on top, Now it doesn't matter what happens to all the other mats, Any one individual mat will feel the full force of 1 pint, So with 2 mats you have 1 pint per square mat, but you have twice the surface area, so grip is increased with no increase in pressure required.

How was that ?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Marky_GTSt said:


> OK, Say you have 2 beer mats and a Pint of beer.
> 
> So on one mat you put a pint and get 1 pint per square mat.
> 
> ...


Very good. Thanks. :thumbsup:


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

I will just add, This is why Motorbikes use multiplates, So the lever can be operated by a fairly feeble grip to overcome the spring pressure but the clutch can transmit 100+ lb of torque.


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## GhostWKD (Nov 10, 2010)

Marky_GTSt said:


> OK, Say you have 2 beer mats and a Pint of beer.
> 
> So on one mat you put a pint and get 1 pint per square mat.
> 
> ...


Use of beer mats to describe the benefits of multi-plate clutches... I love it :bowdown1:

Note to self, must go to pub and try this out - educational reasons only of course


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

GhostWKD said:


> Use of beer mats to describe the benefits of multi-plate clutches... I love it :bowdown1:
> 
> Note to self, must go to pub and try this out - educational reasons only of course


Feel free to include as many beer mats and pints as required 

And when asked, Explain its an experiment.


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

gtrsam said:


> I have to agree whats wrong with asking questions ? What you(Mooki) suggest is that if a dealer say that their part is the best in the universe we should just accept it and pay with no logs of data etc. that support their claim ?


There is nothing wrong with Questions, and we accept this on open Forum
But to question only one company with such vigour, and you actually support another tuner that has praise for coughing, is unfair in my book..

Lets have the same respect,to my company please 

Theories you have, are all well and good, and we can take time out and debate them all-day long, However, what matters to me are "real" world tests.
In this type of clutch , we have tested , thinner,thicker,wider,multi plate systems from 12 through to 19 plate systems, Hrs after hrs of R&D
I am in a position to give you the benefit of my experience, 

Why would I help design manufacturer, test and deploy with my name attached, something that wasn't fit for the purpose of improvement

Maybe we will think twice in sharing our design thoughts, its one thing to have mathematical analytical view point,but some time's in practice ideas and theories do not equate.The majority have NO experience in this field, and imo loose there respect .
I'm asking for equality on posts, Pistons,rods,heads,exhausts,you name it (i seem to remember "Mini AIR Filters" now look what guys use LOl)
one company gets, the fantastic pat on the back,with none or very little R&D, and another get's a drilling from all the usual predictable bunch

I do hope attitudes in fairness will change, and guys accept we are trying to move parameters forward

have to go now as I'm not on holiday, )fat chance) lol

Regards KK


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## [email protected] (Feb 1, 2012)

*More Pic's*

For those of you who are interested a few more snaps...


One Piece Billet Outer Cage High tensile Carbon Steel










This cage is not pressed or welded.











Kind Regards

Amar


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## Hazza (Jun 2, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> I should explain that I am typing from Greece on an iPhone on a wifi connection that drops every five mins!
> 
> Not trying to be antagonistic. I have real questions that need answers as I will be in te market for transmission mods next.
> 
> ...


Valid question or not this (and many others on different threads) just come across as 'I don't like you because you're not Litchfields'. boring and predictable fromt he same users. Sometimes, if you've nothing good to say then say nothing.opcorn:


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Marky_GTSt said:


> I will just add, This is why Motorbikes use multiplates, So the lever can be operated by a fairly feeble grip to overcome the spring pressure but the clutch can transmit 100+ lb of torque.


Yes i used the same trick on my bike  An issue with this type of clutch, is there is only so much room inside the cage and baskets 
Most have used thinner plates and frictions, to overcome,Yes this idea will hold more torque, as more plates are added,however will not last the vigour's of Race and drag, imo, as more heat is generated and thinner plates do not last , Now even asking more with on line boost and higher RPM launches
these limitations have to be addressed 

The route we have chosen, is to make a multi plate system using oem thickness plates, wider and made of carbon composite material, Unfortunately in practice getting 16 larger sized plates to fit,requires some clever engineering

we wanted to share
kk


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Yes i used the same trick on my bike  An issue with this type of clutch, is there is only so much room inside the cage and baskets
> Most have used thinner plates and frictions, to overcome,Yes this idea will hold more torque, as more plates are added,however will not last the vigour's of Race and drag, imo, as more heat is generated and thinner plates do not last , Now even asking more with on line boost and higher RPM launches
> these limitations have to be addressed
> 
> ...


I was in fact going to point out the easy option of just cramming more thin plates in, so people could better understand the work you had done, I wasn't sure the significance would be fully appreciated though. I'm fairly sure there will be some cheap thin plate systems on the market eventually and then the real difference will become apparent.


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## Strker63 (Jun 28, 2012)

Very excited to hear more about this new system!!!

Can you give us more details on how it compares to Dodson/Promax? Quieter/smoother I hope


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Strker63 said:


> Very excited to hear more about this new system!!!
> 
> Can you give us more details on how it compares to Dodson/Promax? Quieter/smoother I hope


It will be none professional to comment, the Guys that will experience
both will be best placed to reply.Like any product, Price,quality,longevity,all pro's and con's have to be assessed, We feel this new product well placed to shine :thumbsup:
this is in no way suggesting Dodson is not a good product , However i feel a little competition good

*Can i just add, im off up north to see my daughter  if i go quite i will pick up 
replies on Monday*
Regard's kk


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## Strker63 (Jun 28, 2012)

Can anyone beta testing this tranny give us some feedback?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Just to illustrate my point

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/159913-litchfield-launch-new-suspension-kit-autosport-2012-a.html

There are no demands for Lap time data, or "Proof" that this is an improvement. 

likewise threads like these

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/153328-litchfield-braking-news-2.html

always get greeted with congratulations by users.

whereas the majority of SVM threads turn negative, and not only when Kev is waving his willy around (  ).

Can I ask some a certina group of users who seem to pop up in all the same places lay off SVM and let them go about thier business without feeling the need to pick holes in everything they do?

You know who you are

Mook


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> There is nothing wrong with Questions, and we accept this on open Forum
> But to question only one company with such vigour, and you actually support another tuner that has praise for coughing, is unfair in my book..
> 
> Lets have the same respect,to my company please*



You still don't get it, do you!!

The reason you get so much shit is because of YOU, and the way you conduct yourself on this forum.*

Look at the recent Santa Pod event, the way you posted after that event was ****ing embarrassing. You do yourself and your company no favours whatsoever.*

And now you beg for respect?

Respect is earned, Kev. You behave in a proper manner on this forum and everybody will change their view of you, but at the moment some of us class you as lower than whale shit.

You keep going on about how you want to be professional and not have a go at another company's products. Why the sudden change of heart, it never stopped you before?

I look back on some of the threads on here and wonder just what the **** goes through your head at times, really I do, especially the shit you threw at Jurgen and his car, all because he didn't use YOU, or any another UK tuner. Well it's his car, and *he can spend his money wherever the **** he wants.

Like I said though, you change the way you behave on this forum and I'm sure we'll change our opinion of you, even I can do that, and I'm probably the biggest SVM hater. But that's all because of YOU, Kev. You might be the nicest guy in the world, I don't know because I've never met you, but my first instinct if I ever met you would be to headbutt you, *because you come across as a complete **** that needs a slap. I'm not threatening you by any means, I'm merely saying that you rub people up the wrong way because of your behaviour on here, and piss people off to the point that they want to give you a dig.*

Right, I only posted this for your benefit, hopefully you'll get where I'm coming from and realise that if you want respect you have to earn it, and as long as you're pissing people off we'll still think you're a ****.*

This post is meant as constructive criticism, a bit of advice if you want to be treated better, it's not meant as a threat in any way shape or form. I just want you to realise you'll never be respected if you carry on like you have done on this forum.*

Anyway, I hope you understand where I'm coming from 



Mook, this is a genuine post for Kev, for the benefit of everyone. He'll get respect, and we won't have to put up with posts that piss us off. 

Win win all round


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

Mookistar said:


> Just to illustrate my point
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/159913-litchfield-launch-new-suspension-kit-autosport-2012-a.html
> 
> ...




In fairness to Litchfield, they don't go posting in the manner that Kev/SVM does. Kev gets shit cos he pisses people off, Iain doesn't.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Max boost (if indeed that is your real name  ) thats fine, so long as when Kev DOES post differently (such as this thread) people give him a chance.

mook


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## [email protected] (Jul 6, 2012)

Looks like ill be the USA distributor for testing these clutches out 

I have 3 1500+ HP cars in the shop right now getting our kits fitted and if this does what has been claimed in testing I'd love to get my hands on it.

Sure Amar and I will talk about it a little later today. 

Cheers,
Joe


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

Mookistar said:


> Max boost (if indeed that is your real name  ) thats fine, so long as when Kev DOES post differently (such as this thread) people give him a chance.
> 
> mook


I certainly would give him a chance and then change my view of him, the ball's in his court 



re: my name......it's as much my real name as yours is Mookistar 

Long live Arsenal, pride of North London!!


:chuckle:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

right.

Look at this



_________________________________________________________________


it's a line, and I've just drawn it.

Any post me or the mod team perceive as being "anti-SVM" just for the sake of it, will be acted upon.

This does not restrict the asking of questions, or questioning SVM on what they do, so long as it's seen to be done for the right reasons and not just for the sake of picking them apart.

Kev knows that he can rub people up the wrong way I know for a fact that he is a man better with Spanners than a keyboard, so I am sure he will do his best to keep his posts down to earth.

A long time ago SVM were told that they needed to stop talking bullshit and let their cars do the talking.

Then the cars did the talking and Kev (rightly or wrongly) celebrated his success.

now the dust has settled, we are about to go into the most important TOTB for years, and it would be nice to see people get behind SVM and their customers to really show the world where the UK scene is at.

So, remember the line. Lets turn a page and move on.

You have been warned

Mook

p.s. I won't remove Max Boosts post as it goes some way to explain how some people (again rightly or wrongly) feel.


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## Hazza (Jun 2, 2011)

Max Boost said:


> He'll get respect, and we won't have to put up with posts that piss us off.


In all fairness - if his posts piss you off why bother reading them just to wind yourself up - seems pointless.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

ahem

_____________________________________


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## johnhanton57 (May 2, 2009)

Adamantium said:


> I should explain that I am typing from Greece on an iPhone on a wifi connection that drops every five mins!
> 
> Not trying to be antagonistic. I have real questions that need answers as I will be in te market for transmission mods next.
> 
> ...


Yeh you were right your maths are rusty 

As the plates have a larger diameter there is less moment of force require at the OD of the plates to turn the ID where the spline is connected. Simples:wavey:


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## [email protected] (Jul 6, 2012)

Just had a great chat with Amar @ Severn Valley and its now confirmed Boost Logic will be the exclusive distributor for the USA on the Severn Valley Clutch Pack for the R35 GTR. 

We will be getting one to try on one of our shop cars here testing 1500 Wheel HP and seeing what the pack can do to withstand the power to the ground!

Thanks again guys and look forward to future business.

Joe~


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

Mookistar said:


> Max boost (if indeed that is your real name  ) thats fine, so long as when Kev DOES post differently (such as this thread) people give him a chance.
> 
> mook


Because i havent seen a legit SVM dyno graph let alone the performance to back it up that this product is better than promax.

lets look at this logically.
AMS and SPE and Switzer all have 1000+WHP gtr's. AMS and SPE both have GTR's with over 1000ft/lbs of torque using the promox. each one of these have gone 8's 1/4mile times. 

SVM has not shown any 1000ft/lbs dyno #s on any lower reading dyno's like mustang dyno, mainline dyno etc. (ams used both mustang and dynojet iirc, switzer and SPE both use mustang dyno).

SVM has only done 9.4 1/4 once.

What im not seeing here is how this is better than promax??????????? SERIOUS QUESTION THAT NEEDS ANSWERS! thanks boost logic for getting some of these. iirc, your dyno reads high, but i havent seen anything lower than 9.5 on dragtimes. you did win 2nd at the russian mile event which iirc you said was a 1500 package at the last min, so i know you have ALOT of parts in development and releasing soon. hope to see 8's ASAP. but havent seen it yet.

What this all tells me is that promax is still on the top but that these SVM clutchs are better than sportsman clutchs at the very least, but i dont see any proof of anything more (yet).

NO HATE HERE, just want the proof. otherwise its just marketing.

I think they look very nice, i have no doubt they are really nice, but to say without proof they are better and cheaper than a promax without proof?
i dont doubt they are good. technically speaking they should do very well... id like to see them handle 1000+ft/lbs torque (on a low reading dyno without factoring in suggested friction loss guesstimates) and id like to see it backed up with performance to prove it, which we haven't seen yet that claims its better than a promax for cheaper. Like i suggested its cheaper than a promax and better than a sportsman at the very least until proven otherwise.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Really didn't want to post again but want to set things straight. I'll try to stick to facts.

Kev, I'm sorry if my post has caused you grief or made you feel like your company is disrespected - not my intention!

To those concerned about my hols, I had a great time but it was 41 degrees so I had to take regular breaks in air conditioned rooms with only poor wifi for entertainment! I'm also addicted to cars so couldn't help but read the forum

Now, back to the clutch, I posted my questions because I will be in the market and was under the impression Dodson was the only real option. If there are other options, especially cheaper ones, I'm not going to dismiss any of them. I do like the look of this product, it looks well made and I especially like that it is manufactured in the uk. Congrats on supporting our manufacturing industry.

The science questions come from the fact that I work on automotive patents including the first twin clutch gearboxes and the corresponding multiplate wet coaxial clutches typically used to actuate them. I've been studying these things for a while, but not with these considerations in mind.

It's usually about smoothness and friction reduction, or reduced actuation pressure to reduce hydraulic pumping losses and save fuel, never about torque handling. Come to think of it, how does yours measure up on the nvh front? I have heard you can tell a pro max kit a mile off from its noise. I don't know if they are any different in feel.

in answer to some replies above, I totally get the reason for putting in more plates, makes sense but I still don't follow why you'd make the friction area of the plates larger.

I knew someone would say larger radius, lower force needed for same torque transmission, but 20% more area means less than 20% more radius because of pi r sqared. So although you gain in distance from axis, the gain in area for the same clamping pressure means you lose more clamping/reaction force meaning overall you lose torque handling capacity (unless you can make coefficient of friction MUCH higher).

Please do not take this post as anything other than a genuine technical question about the way a unique product is workng compared with its competition as that really is all this is.

Dodson are smart people and excellent engineers, which makes me question, why wouldn't they look to do the same thing? I'll understand if you say you worked out how to do it where they have so far been unable to, as that's typically how most of the patents I write come about.

What still throws me, accepting the mprovement from putting in more plates, is that when conventional dry clutches are uprated to increase torque handling, they make the friction material area smaller hence paddle or button clutches. They also fit stronger clamping springs. 

Why doesn't the same science apply here? why isn't a bigger plate worse? (I do accept the benefit of better thermal capacity).

I really do mean no offence at all, and Mook, if you don't agree with this, I don't mind if you delete this post. I'm happy to repost it as a generic technical question about ways to uprate such a clutch.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

right.

Look at this

--- --- -- 


it's was a line, and I've just snorted it. :chuckle:


(sorry Mook, couldn't help myself. Ye crap joke) 


Well in all seriousness i was going to ask a question but it has been answered in another post. 

However i do have another question for SVM (much better attitude i must say) 

SVM, my carbon triple clutch i had in my R34 GTR became very violent when hot. It was very much a 'on' or 'off' clutch. ( drove like stock when cold but after some abuse was very harsh) . I will presume that this clutch might have the same characteristics ? how does the GTR gearbox react to it? does it become a harsh change when hot or do you remap gearbox maybe for a soft change? what is the overall difference from a stock change?


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

what about the pistons, Alloy outer cage and the piston seals? could that make the difference in cost?
http://www.speedforsale.com/nissangtrparts/images/Promax_10_plate__4c0920c18fb8c.png

regardless i like that they are carbon, wider and 16. your product should be stronger/wider/thicker disks and less heat. i dont doubt it will perform really good and maybe with more testing will exceed expectations.

did you do any testing with the syvecs as its said to control the tcm a lil differently than the stock modified ecu making things "better" to use the least amount of words possible.


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

mindlessoath said:


> what about the pistons, Alloy outer cage and the piston seals? could that make the difference in cost?
> http://www.speedforsale.com/nissangtrparts/images/Promax_10_plate__4c0920c18fb8c.png
> 
> regardless i like that they are carbon, wider and 16. your product should be stronger/wider/thicker disks and less heat. i dont doubt it will perform really good and maybe with more testing will exceed expectations.
> ...


any updates? its Monday. btw are those carbon disks or any of the other parts made in Asia at all? 
Which cars have these been installed in and how many were installed in these other cars? How many pulls were done on the strip?

There are also ALOT of promax customers that are very happy and without any issues what soever. they can also be tuned well on the street to perform very good (ie off the dyno) and taken time to do so.


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