# Great News! Race Developments VR38 development



## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

I have just seen a FB post that Race Developments are starting their VR38 engine development program. For anyone that doesn't know them they are the guys responsible for the super fast TTRS engine (the videos were floating around on here) and are also well known within the Evo (4G63 & 4B11), WSBK and MotoGP circles.... 

They certainly know how to put an engine together:clap:

This should get interesting as they are masters at extracting power out of any engine 

From FB...:thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Tim and I have been speaking about this quite a bit, Race Developments will be doing all our engine builds for the Skyline.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Tim and I have been speaking about this quite a bit, Race Developments will be doing all our engine builds for the Skyline.


You've got an old skyline engine build going too?


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

CT17 said:


> You've got an old skyline engine build going too?


Mine will be as part of the development process, I need to do every stage of upgrades on the car to do the full amount of research and working with an engine builder like Tim means having a major competitive advantage.

Tim did the cylinder head for my Evo X and it was the highest power stock turbo Evo X that I am aware of anywhere


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Mine will be as part of the development process, I need to do every stage of upgrades on the car to do the full amount of research and working with an engine builder like Tim means having a major competitive advantage.
> 
> Tim did the cylinder head for my Evo X and it was the highest power stock turbo Evo X that I am aware of anywhere


Ah sorry, I thought you mean't you were doing an engine build on a Skyline rather than your GT-R. (2008+ model is not a Skyline)
My Skyline is shortly to have it's engine rebuilt.

It'll certainly be interesting to see what results get produced because the R35 tuning scene has really come of age now. 

Look forward to the results.


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

You sold the GT-R and swapped it for an old Skyline Ant?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Conrad said:


> You sold the GT-R and swapped it for an old Skyline Ant?


I think he accidentally called his GT-R a Skyline.

Only silly people like me trade in an R35 for an older car.


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

CT17 said:


> I think he accidentally called his GT-R a Skyline.
> 
> Only silly people like me trade in an R35 for an older car.


No not at all, I like the old ones too


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Conrad said:


> I have just seen a FB post that Race Developments are starting their VR38 engine development program. For anyone that doesn't know them they are the guys responsible for the super fast TTRS engine (the videos were floating around on here) and are also well known within the Evo (4G63 & 4B11), WSBK and MotoGP circles....
> 
> They certainly know how to put an engine together:clap:
> 
> ...


Nice, but they have a lot of catching up to do!!!


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Sorry force of habit as we have an R33 here too 

Will be my GTR.

Graham I genuinely think RD will move the game forward rather than catch up, having worked with Tim for a while he really knows his stuff and has been able to produce engine that are far out performing competitors.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry force of habit as we have an R33 here too
> 
> Will be my GTR.
> 
> Graham I genuinely think RD will move the game forward rather than catch up, having worked with Tim for a while he really knows his stuff and has been able to produce engine that are far out performing competitors.


Great


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## lawsy (Feb 25, 2009)

grahamc said:


> Nice, but they have a lot of catching up to do!!!


Tim doesn't tend to just bolt other peoples products together :flame:

He develops the engine in front of him


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Interesting news.

I think its quite funny how all these jedi masters of the VR38 have appeared out of nowhere in the "GTR" world and suddenly are the only ones able to do things. Reminds me of threads from 12 years ago !! lol

Its like the thread i read about SRD's second GTR customer - haroon I think - and his secret AMS turbos !! lol A turbo is not a complicated device, neither is an engine, the head is probably the biggest "mystery" in getting different ingredients to work in harmony and thats the same for all engines, not just GTR's. Fair enough weak points will be found, like the circlips in modern boxes, the blades melting the glue on the old ceramics or the rods going soft at 600bhp. But thats nothing to do with engine builder prowess and is simple empirical testing.

Lots of people liked my old head, it spent 2 weeks at Ilmor F1 on the flow bench !!

lol


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

bladerider said:


> Interesting news.
> 
> I think its quite funny how all these jedi masters of the VR38 have appeared out of nowhere in the "GTR" world and suddenly are the only ones able to do things. Reminds me of threads from 12 years ago !! lol
> 
> ...


This is it, the cylinder head is where the development and time is spent. Tim does things to the head I have seen no one else ever do in the aftermarket industry.

It is not a case of just running the die grinding over it he re-profiles the shape by adding material in some areas and removing in others. Along with getting the optimal design for the valves seats etc. it is one of the most comprehensive bits of work I have seen.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

lawsy said:


> Tim doesn't tend to just bolt other peoples products together :flame:
> 
> He develops the engine in front of him


Thats good, but thats the part that I see taking time - learning the engines, etc. Knowing what will be next to break.....

Looking forward to seeing and hearing about the work he does though :shy:


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

It will be interesting to see how it develops, hopefully a full build and we will get to see it on the engine dyno screaming


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

I know RD are very highly respected and I look forward to seeing the results.

But when you see the results Jurgen has achieved with the JUN 4.0 in my mind that's job done :thumbsup:


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

asiasi said:


> I know RD are very highly respected and I look forward to seeing the results.
> 
> But when you see the results Jurgen has achieved with the JUN 4.0 in my mind that's job done :thumbsup:


£27 grand plus import duty etc is a lot of money though, strangely the max power is rated at 900bhp.

JUN AUTO - NISSAN GT-R / R35 / VR38DETT - PRODUCT INFORMATION


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

Agree it's not cheap but when is a reliable 1000hp.

PS why is my post edited


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

asiasi said:


> Agree it's not cheap but when is a reliable 1000hp.
> 
> PS why is my post edited


Sorry mate, I pressed edit instead of quote, I didn't change anything though.


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## martin320 (Aug 29, 2009)

JamieP said:


> £27 grand plus import duty etc is a lot of money though, strangely the max power is rated at 900bhp.
> 
> JUN AUTO - NISSAN GT-R / R35 / VR38DETT - PRODUCT INFORMATION


I Believe its about 15k for the short motor..


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

asiasi said:


> I know RD are very highly respected and I look forward to seeing the results.
> 
> But when you see the results Jurgen has achieved with the JUN 4.0 in my mind that's job done :thumbsup:


Really..... do you think all the engine builders out there just give up because someone else achieved X with their engine?

I think it just sets the bar a little higher and if a decent UK tuner can provide a reliable unit that outperforms the competition for less or equal money then that would be fantastic. Personally I would like to see a good package appear without the GTR tax on it, it may even tempt me into buying one :clap:


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

asiasi said:


> I know RD are very highly respected and I look forward to seeing the results.
> 
> But when you see the results Jurgen has achieved with the JUN 4.0 in my mind that's job done :thumbsup:


Absolutely.

What could Cosworth, Farndon or Arrow do that Jun dont do themselves ??


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

bladerider said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> What could Cosworth, Farndon or Arrow do that Jun dont do themselves ??


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

JamieP said:


> £27 grand plus import duty etc is a lot of money though, strangely the max power is rated at 900bhp.
> 
> JUN AUTO - NISSAN GT-R / R35 / VR38DETT - PRODUCT INFORMATION


the 900bhp is the max power their car has made on their turbo ;-)


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

Conrad said:


> I think it just sets the bar a little higher and if a decent UK tuner can provide a reliable unit that outperforms the competition for less or equal money


Says the man who spent £25k on NZ built RIPS engine 

My point was when an engine can produce 1300 hp reliably what more do you want.

R35 tuning now is more about ECU/clutch and gearbox options...power is the easy bit.


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

asiasi said:


> Says the man who spent £25k on NZ built RIPS engine
> 
> My point was when an engine can produce 1300 hp reliably what more do you want.
> 
> R35 tuning now is more about ECU/clutch and gearbox options...power is the easy bit.


What if you could get the same power from a slightly smaller power with improved transient response. 

Having a more efficient engine is what this thread is about, as you say power is easy, doing this is not. 

Tim recently did the drag engine for an Evo that is running a relatively small turbo (pte 6766). The car is running a synchro box so Granny shifts and has recently done several low 9s quarters with terminal speeds of circa 161mph. With the addition of a dog box the car will do 8.5 maybe less. 

Generally these results are only seen with a larger turbo (gtx42) but by increasing the efficiency of the engine this car is punching well above its weight. As said though, it is not about just building the engine. The work in the cylinder head is vital and I know Jun do not do some of the things he does. 

Have a look at this page and see what you think

Refreshing my 9GT - Page 11 - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

asiasi said:


> Says the man who spent £25k on NZ built RIPS engine
> 
> My point was when an engine can produce 1300 hp reliably what more do you want.
> 
> R35 tuning now is more about ECU/clutch and gearbox options...power is the easy bit.


That was a good few years ago and is exactly my point, if a UK tuner can do the same or better bring it on.

Maybe 1300bhp is enough? Who knows, we are never happy and always want more but how about if a tuner can produce 1300hp or even more for that matter reliably with better response and a wider power spread than the competitors?

There is a major difference between tuners who do everything for a car to someone who simply focuses and specializes on engine design, optimisation and builds.


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

bladerider said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> What could Cosworth, Farndon or Arrow do that Jun dont do themselves ??


I'm all for UK Support trust me and aggree that we have companies that could offer the same if not better.... but one thing i have yet to see anyone else do that Jun did! When they released the R1 engine package it was limited to 900hp. Naturally most ignored that and found at 900+hp they broke the liners in the block iirc. JUN went out of there way to stand by the product and replaced all the long blocks they had supplied.

We are not talking 1 or 2 either!


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

It cost Jun around £300,000 to replace all 11 blocks.

Am naturally a supporter of JUN but the product has now been seriously tested in my car.

It has done the power the times and been super reliable , I honestly think the 1300 hub power my car has is enough for me now..

Spool is incredible and so is power delivery (will post some graphs later).

But like some said doing power is easy being reliable is the hard part..

Also think gbox is were most of the next issues will come with more power.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Jurgen, is the jun engine standard bore and stroke?

I do agree with the nature of this thread. Improving volumetric efficiency is IMHO the best way to get more power as it's essentially free power with little compromise.

There is no question that we have the people to do it in the uk. Especially if you consider that nearly all the F1 engine designers and builders are based here. Even the German ones!

I'm all for increasing engine power but I do think these numbers are getting silly. That's why despite spending the money my aim has always been spool and drivability not outright max power. I find it hard to justify my 800bhp goal never mind much more, at least for road and track use. I can understand if drag racing is your thing. With my goals although engine optimisation is great, there are significant gains to be Haden the peripherals such as exhaust, headers, inter coolers and manifolds which are more easily tested - hence my interest in the EFR turbos and the cast log exhaust manifolds I am patiently waiting for.


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

BORExSTROKE: 96.0mmx92.0mm
DISPLACEMENT: 3996Cc,
COMP.RATIO: 8.8

Some data from my web spec on my Jun Engine.

I agree the power levels are getting quite high now but I wanted to push to 2.5 bar see what it can make .

If you look at my graph the car is not too bad in spool but this is due to my engine and supporting mods.

Highest torque on other graph was beyond [email protected]

I think on my lower boost level it will be still a good track weapon.


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

Interesting comments thanks guys.

This isn't a project I will get results from immediately and its one of three GTR development projects that i'm starting on for two traders and one private individual. All have different goals. I'm quite looking forward to something fresh to be honest.

Very impressive numbers Jurgen. Since we spoke last that has moved on a fair amount. I'm pretty out of touch with the current GTR market.

Interesting to hear that Jun warranted blocks taken beyond the recommended power limits. Often a hard thing to quantify a warranty situation like that.


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

Tim Radley said:


> Interesting comments thanks guys.
> 
> This isn't a project I will get results from immediately and its one of three GTR development projects that i'm starting on for two traders and one private individual. All have different goals. I'm quite looking forward to something fresh to be honest.
> 
> ...


Hi Tim, nice to see you on here am sure your input will aid all on here.

The Issue JUN had with initial 11 engines they build is that they all failed within 1st major run or certainly no more than 1500 miles (like in my case)..

There was a massive design fault with the liners and also maybe on the piston/conrod set up..

(They have now learned how to stroker the engine reliably - JUN was not the only company that seen issue a lot of guys in USA were breaking BIG power engines fairly easy).. - Almost all the top companies in USA suffered issues with stroker set ups,.

My car actually broke just pulling in 3rd gear gently on the 1st Design of the JUN Stroker back in 2011 -


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

Jm-Imports said:


> Hi Tim, nice to see you on here am sure your input will aid all on here.
> 
> The Issue JUN had with initial 11 engines they build is that they all failed within 1st major run or certainly no more than 1500 miles (like in my case)..
> 
> ...


Interesting. What liners did they run, wet or dry?


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## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks for the very kind comments everyone!

Like Tim, very excited to get hold of something new!


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

Tim Radley said:


> Interesting. What liners did they run, wet or dry?


if memory serves me right first was wet liners and now dry.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry force of habit as we have an R33 here too
> 
> Will be my GTR.
> 
> Graham I genuinely think RD will move the game forward rather than catch up, having worked with Tim for a while he really knows his stuff and has been able to produce engine that are far out performing competitors.


Yep, think everyone should have one of each !!!


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Steve said:


> Yep, think everyone should have one of each !!!


I thought you were trying to sell your R33 Steve?


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

CT17 said:


> I thought you were trying to sell your R33 Steve?


LOL, everything has a price, never been "trying" to sell it, as I only advertised it on here and if the right person with the right money comes along - well you never know. :chuckle:

I was going to sell it to buy the R35 and that was 5 years ago, still have both and am happy with them


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

CT17 said:


> I thought you were trying to sell your R33 Steve?


hahahahaaaaa !!

now you funny !!!

:chuckle:

Steve dont get out much unless to track days and he bored everyone at them with stories about being on track days, so he advertised his car so he could talk to new, unsuspecting people about the track days and his GTR, thats why his sale thread only gets bumped when he not been on track for a while !!

lololol


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Hey, I never BUMP anything !!!!


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

Jm-Imports said:


> if memory serves me right first was wet liners and now dry.


Is everyone switching to dry liners now?

What power are they rated for and what have they been tested to?


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

Conrad said:


> Is everyone switching to dry liners now?
> 
> What power are they rated for and what have they been tested to?


not sure what others have done mate, as far as am aware in UK only the JUN R1 has used liners and tested to the big power around 1450-1500 give or take..

Think mark leach is around 1100-1200 ? as to how much they will take am not sure and am not prepare to push mine any further if am honest,.

In USA there is rumours of strokers with cement filling etc etc which have 1800 etc..

But if your wanting to go with a liner block I would consider buying one that's been proved  by JUN or AMS..


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

Jm-Imports said:


> not sure what others have done mate, as far as am aware in UK only the JUN R1 has used liners and tested to the big power around 1450-1500 give or take..
> 
> Think mark leach is around 1100-1200 ? as to how much they will take am not sure and am not prepare to push mine any further if am honest,.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jurgen, I thought SVM had supposedly a 1600R?


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

Conrad said:


> Thanks Jurgen, I thought SVM had supposedly a 1600R?


yes but that's 3.8 mate not stroker


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Not sure what the point of stroking is when switzer's Goliath can do what it does in stock block and geometry.


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

Depends what you want strokers spool up faster and generally run less boost and less revs .

They produce more torque and quicker - at same boost levels


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

Jm-Imports said:


> Depends what you want strokers spool up faster and generally run less boost and less revs .
> 
> They produce more torque and quicker - at same boost levels


Exactly. Its not all about peak bhp figures or quarter mile times, some people want a broader spread of power and better response - things often not shown by a dyno chart. If i can make an engine make the same power at less boost compared to someone else or have a wider powerband then all then better


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

I prefer the bigger bore option and standard stroke myself to increase the displacement.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Guys, you are talking relatives here.

Obviously bigger displacement has some advantages but it alters piston speed speed dwell time, rod ratio, block integrity, thermal mass. Rod speed alone has a hugely detrimental effect on bearing load.

Bigger displacement can be better but isn't always, and when your starting point is a proven 3.8 (see gundam and Goliath) then is it worth the risk and the significantly additional cost?

If you want a broader power band it's far easier to consider reducing pumping losses and perhaps better turbo applications like the EFR, hence why I did!


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Ric Wood/cnc heads builds some of the best VR engines ive come across/tuned last 4 years, quietly gets on with his work moving the game on


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

Adamantium said:


> Guys, you are talking relatives here.
> 
> Obviously bigger displacement has some advantages but it alters piston speed speed dwell time, rod ratio, block integrity, thermal mass. Rod speed alone has a hugely detrimental effect on bearing load.
> 
> ...


its good for all of us all these options and gives customers a big choice - I like my set up as it will run 1000 easy on pump fuel on high boost 2.5 bar can run 1450ish and potentially do 8.3 seconds..

Due to the design of the engine and with the turbos currently on it (it makes it a nice set up for me as the pick up and power potential is all there).. 

I do think the OEM manifold turbos having drove a few are great and spool faster for sure but that has to be capped somewere for power.

Really interested to see the new turbos as if Iain can get a turbo kit that will spool up very fast and produce 1100-1200 with pump then he is onto a winner ;-)..

Now imagine that turbo kit on a stroker ;-)


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Call me fckle,

But sometimes I just cant decide whether I want 600bhp by 4000rpm with another 600 to follow or if 550 at 4300rpm followed by 800 is gonna hit the spot in my full weight street car in a busy rush hour in london.

Im such an air head !!


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

bladerider said:


> Call me fckle,
> 
> But sometimes I just cant decide whether I want 600bhp by 4000rpm with another 600 to follow or if 550 at 4300rpm followed by 800 is gonna hit the spot in my full weight street car in a busy rush hour in london.
> 
> Im such an air head !!


:bowdown1:


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

At least you're living the dream Jurgen,

Im reduced to a few german cars that can barely skin a rice pudding and an flourescent orange penis that my mates got all the good bits from !!

J.


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

its the longest car I have owned and given so much fun..

(but one day I will have to sell it ;( not looking forward to that).


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

Adamantium said:


> Guys, you are talking relatives here.
> 
> Obviously bigger displacement has some advantages but it alters piston speed speed dwell time, rod ratio, block integrity, thermal mass. Rod speed alone has a hugely detrimental effect on bearing load.
> 
> ...


A lot of that depends on the design of the kit - rod length, pin offset. Also assumes the manufacturer made it optimal in the first place which often isn't the case.

Cylinder head is the big area to improve.

What are you thinking of to reduce pumping losses? Dry sump?


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Tim,

hi , you got any flow figures for the VR heads yet?

When we was developing the VQ35 drag motor , the DE 350Z head flowed more air than a VR head at the same valve lift.

My only questions is we being us tuners flow the heads at vac but the cars run under boost , I always wonder this.

Re reducing pumping losses , even with running huge scavenge pumps I doubt weather we could keep a vacuum in the crankcases at big boost levels.

We can supply a real nice dry sump system for all the VQ motors sure these will port over to a the VR motor easily.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

No offence intended, but you aren't the first person to have looked at this.

I'm sure improvements can be made but in the case of the unique design of the gtr I suspect it's going to be simply a different compromise point rather than all round better.

There's great improvement to be had in flow work to improve VE, I'm just saying I'm not convince that changing the engine geometry is worth the effort. Just look at switzer's research.


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## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

I don't see how the GTR is unique design.....


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Adamantium said:


> There's great improvement to be had in flow work to improve VE, I'm just saying I'm not convince that changing the engine geometry is worth the effort. Just look at switzer's research.


When we ran Project Z the 350Z drag car , we did change the crank pins sizes but this was more to due to big end/main bearing material/quality.

Bore and stroke was the same as a stock motor, we still used the same cam chains through out the valve train. Cylinder heads still had stock inlet valve size exhaust valves where increased by 1mm thou.

I know we was running Methanol but this is very much like E85 in the returns.

all very interesting but my thoughts the power on these cars come from Turbo technology/specs and ECU's.

Mark


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

[email protected] M/S said:


> Tim,
> 
> hi , you got any flow figures for the VR heads yet?
> 
> ...


Ah yes Project Zed. I remember reading about that in RET ages ago. Didn't it also run Darton liners with a custom billet sump that was a big factor in adding strength? Will that sump run on these motors? Some company near New York built it originally IIRC?

This thread is jumping the gun a bit. One of the lads at work put a photo up on our facebook page with the Nissan engine in the background asking if anyone can guess what the two motors in the shot were. Its kind of spiralled from there.

I will be spending a load of time on the flowbench but as you say there are limitations to that and it's very easy to get lost if you are not careful. I've never seen a flowbench nor a dyno win a race Its knowing what data to take from that and how to use it and what to ignore. Flowbench runs under vacuum and has no pressure waves running up and down the intake runners, no half open butterfly, no piston a few mm under the back of the valves at low lift, no regard for combustion chamber shape or piston crown shape, etc. As for running boost. You are increasing the density of the air so although you have a different pressure differential at valve opening you still have to be careful with port size. Doubling the power by doubling the boost doesn't require a port twice the size. Port size isn't the be all end all either, great care has to be taken in the cross sectional area taper into the port entry then into the discharge area. Sadly this is something that is seldom developed to a high level in most 4-valve tuning even at "factory-level". If you want to look at big development and exceptional VE and BMEP, then the shining light is 2-valve pushrod motors in high level drag racing!


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Tim Radley said:


> Ah yes Project Zed. I remember reading about that in RET ages ago. Didn't it also run Darton liners with a custom billet sump that was a big factor in adding strength? Will that sump run on these motors? Some company near New York built it originally IIRC?


Yes Motors where built and serviced in the US by my friend Andrew from Performance motor sport but we did a lot of development on the motors.

Andrew is currently building all our V6 motors while my father is recuperating after his motor bike accident and may well become part of Abbey Motorsport soon. 

You are correct in saying we used Darton lines but the block wasn't filled and we used a Dailey dry sump system that tied the main bearings into the block but this was a DE motor that didn't have the girdle system like the HR and VHR 350/370 Motors which are like the VR motor, but already have a Dailey sump/pump developed and being used on the later Zed motors which can include a air to oil separator as well and if needed seperate scavenge for the turbo's.



> then the shining light is 2-valve pushrod motors in high level drag racing!


yeah just look how there are going now they have found turbo's and proper fuel systems and boost control system/s.


good thread thou.

thanks


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

[email protected] M/S said:


> Yes Motors where built and serviced in the US by my friend Andrew from Performance motor sport but we did a lot of development on the motors.
> 
> Andrew is currently building all our V6 motors while my father is recuperating after his motor bike accident and may well become part of Abbey Motorsport soon.
> 
> ...


Yes, quite I'll drop you an email about the blocks.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Ricky Elder said:


> I don't see how the GTR is unique design.....


I don't think a V6 is unique, but a serious amount of thought has gone in to it, especially the plumbing.

How do I post a 1.3MB pdf technical paper attachment?


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

Adamantium said:


> I don't think a V6 is unique, but a serious amount of thought has gone in to it, especially the plumbing.
> 
> How do I post a 1.3MB pdf technical paper attachment?


Edit post, manage attachments, attach file then upload


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

There is a 15 byte limit, needs to be hosted off site.


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> There is a 15 byte limit, needs to be hosted off site.


Small attachment that :chairshot


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Yep, I think it is specifically to stop them being posted


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

OK, have a read of this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rim96jhhg2th4ai/Nissan_GTR_VR38DETT_paper.pdf


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

good find......dyno cooling time reading today.


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

Adamantium said:


> OK, have a read of this:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rim96jhhg2th4ai/Nissan_GTR_VR38DETT_paper.pdf


Nice find :thumbsup:


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## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

[email protected] M/S said:


> When we ran Project Z the 350Z drag car , we did change the crank pins sizes but this was more to due to big end/main bearing material/quality.
> 
> Bore and stroke was the same as a stock motor, we still used the same cam chains through out the valve train. Cylinder heads still had stock inlet valve size exhaust valves where increased by 1mm thou.
> 
> ...


Very impressive project that Mark!

Like Tim said we read about that in RET and your efforts pushing the project forward and beyond known boundaries have been commendable! :smokin:


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Ric Wood/cnc heads builds some of the best VR engines ive come across/tuned last 4 years, quietly gets on with his work moving the game on


I've never seen a CNC machine that can add metal......


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Max Boost said:


> I've never seen a CNC machine that can add metal......


Look at EOS 3D printers then.


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

And tell me exactly how many cylinder head specialists are modifying heads with EOS 3D printers again?


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## dragerboy (May 15, 2003)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Look at EOS 3D printers then.


That is mega impressive!


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Max Boost said:


> And tell me exactly how many cylinder head specialists are modifying heads with EOS 3D printers again?


Dunno, you just said you'd never seen a CNC machine that could add metal and I provided the necessary info. The fact that they haven't printed a cylinder head yet is a minor detail as it is fairly obvious they could.


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

Yes 3D Printing is bloody good, but totally out of context for CNC machined heads for the VR38. Which is exactly why I said, I've never seen a CNC machine that can add metal. It's painfully obvious the context was in VR38 CNC head cutting and not in metal generally.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

I'll crawl back under my rock then.


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

They will certainly will be able to 'grow' a cylinder head, but that will only be as good as the programme written to make it.


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

TAZZMAXX said:


> I'll crawl back under my rock then.


LOL

I thought you had a thicker skin than that!! :chuckle:


No worries, I thought it was obvious that I meant in relation to VR38 heads, maybe it wasn't as obvious as I thought.

As an aside, I saw an adjustable spanner made from plastic from a 3D Printer, it was a working prototype. As it was being made I was wondering how on earth it will make the threads and threaded barrel to adjust the jaws all in one go along with the actual spanner. When it was finished it was genuinely one of those moments where you stand there open mouthed and saying "Wow!" 

It was a complete working prototype, the first time I had ever seen 3D Printing at work. Mucho impressed.


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

Max Boost said:


> Yes 3D Printing is bloody good, but totally out of context for CNC machined heads for the VR38. Which is exactly why I said, I've never seen a CNC machine that can add metal. It's painfully obvious the context was in VR38 CNC head cutting and not in metal generally.


Its down to the tuner to add the material first then the machine remove some of it after.


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

^^^ Exactly. Most people think a CNC head is the be all and end all and it's just about gouging out metal and making the port bigger.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Max Boost said:


> LOL
> 
> I thought you had a thicker skin than that!! :chuckle:
> 
> ...


As soon as a 3D printer can print a 3D printer, we are all ****ed!!


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

Skynet will become self-aware......


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Some superfinished Front Diff parts


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Some previous head development, will soon have some GTR pics to show too


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## Conrad (Jul 29, 2004)

That ISF finished front diff looks mint... !


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## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks guys....nice to know someone looks at our RD Facebook page!


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

looks nice


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Ricky Elder said:


> Thanks guys....nice to know someone looks at our RD Facebook page!


And someone keeps tempting me with more and more parts


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## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

Always trying to push things forward on your motor mate.....it's like living your dreams through your kids!


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

^^^^^^

hahaha !!

I like this man - he speaks truth !!

J.


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Lol


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## EF Ian (Jan 11, 2013)

Nice work on that head, ever done any work on an RB26 head?


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

EF Ian said:


> Nice work on that head, ever done any work on an RB26 head?


No sorry. Mostly top level bike engines and more recently a few projects as shown here.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

It's good to see people using the flow bench as a Development tool and not just Guessing 
It's very hard to make improvement these days.


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