# KPGC10 - How much are they ?



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

I tink these are the sexiest cars around, and would love to own one by the time I am 35..

Does anyone know much about them, how much they are etc ?


----------



## R32 GTR R32 GTR (Nov 27, 2009)

Speak to Davew im sure he'll be able to give you more info.


----------



## Mick-skyline (May 1, 2009)

very very expensive for one with the original engine and kit on it, replicas can be got cheaper. i hear its near impossible to get one out of japan though... im sure an importer can shed more light on them though. would love one myself


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Old thread, but has info 

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/86461-wanted-kpgc10.html


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

hmmmmmm,

Seems you are looking at £20k for a nice one 

Cheap KPGC10 for sale - Classic Zcar Club


----------



## Mick-skyline (May 1, 2009)

only info i see there is that the kpgc10 has an s20 engine from the factory which i already knew  and its hard to find them which i knew too. lol


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Moff, I know where there's one for £13,790 landed. Just need to MOT & tax it. I've been thinking about it myself


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Send me details


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

PM'd you Moff :thumbsup:


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Mick-skyline said:


> i hear its near impossible to get one out of japan though...


Who did you 'hear' that from? It's rubbish.



Boosted said:


> Moff, I know where there's one for £13,790 landed.


A KPGC10? Obviously not.



Moff said:


> Seems you are looking at £20k for a nice one.


A KPGC10? No, I'm afraid that's nowhere near enough.

Moff, the car in the picture on your first post is _not_ a KPGC10. It's a KGC10 that's had GT-R badges stuck onto it.

Nothing wrong with a good 20-footer lookey-likey, but if want a _real_ KPGC10 it's a whole different kettle of fish to a modified KGC10, and the prices reflect that fact. If you only want 'the look' of a KPGC10, and you are happy to own a modified KGC10, then there's no point asking for prices / info about K*P*GC10s......


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

ok.. Can you give details on the differences please of the KPGC10 and the KGC10, I have no idea


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Moff said:


> ok.. Can you give details on the differences please of the KPGC10 and the KGC10, I have no idea


The _main_ difference between a KGC10 and a KPGC10 is something around 4~5 million Yen at the moment. 

I don't want to be rude but - in my opinion - if you are _really_ interested in learning the differences, and you want to buy a KGC10 ( or even a _real_ KPGC10 ) then you will be prepared to do some in-depth research on the subject yourself, rather than just having it served up to you on a plate. 

So is your expression of interest just a passing whimsy, or are you serious? What you do next will tell you one way or the other.


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

PS30-SB said:


> The _main_ difference between a KGC10 and a KPGC10 is something around 4~5 million Yen at the moment.
> 
> I don't want to be rude but - in my opinion - if you are _really_ interested in learning the differences, and you want to buy a KGC10 ( or even a _real_ KPGC10 ) then you will be prepared to do some in-depth research on the subject yourself, rather than just having it served up to you on a plate.
> 
> So is your expression of interest just a passing whimsy, or are you serious? What you do next will tell you one way or the other.


Moff

go and order some books from japan and start reading mate mate. I know have a sizable collection:thumbsup:


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

There are a lot of them around in Japan but many are not GT-Rs and some are in pretty tatty condition. One we saw on our last GTROC trip to Japan was a GTR but looked like the seats hadn't seen a repair in twenty years! It also had all the GTR 'bits' removed so as to make it look less like a GTR - Yes even Japan has 'collectors on BMXs'. 
Needless to say this was still about £20k if you wanted it - not that it was for sale.


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

PS30-SB said:


> The _main_ difference between a KGC10 and a KPGC10 is something around 4~5 million Yen at the moment.
> 
> I don't want to be rude but - in my opinion - if you are _really_ interested in learning the differences, and you want to buy a KGC10 ( or even a _real_ KPGC10 ) then you will be prepared to do some in-depth research on the subject yourself, rather than just having it served up to you on a plate.
> 
> So is your expression of interest just a passing whimsy, or are you serious? What you do next will tell you one way or the other.


I meant the actual differences in trim etc.

I was the one who PM'd you asking about having one as a wedding car

Where do I find info ?


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

davew said:


> Moff
> 
> go and order some books from japan and start reading mate mate. I know have a sizable collection:thumbsup:


Are you able to point me in the right direction, and I will order away


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Fuggles said:


> There are a lot of them around in Japan but many are not GT-Rs


What's _"them"_?

The subject of this thread is the *KPGC10* model. How can a KPGC10 _not_ be a GT-R? 



Fuggles said:


> One we saw on our last GTROC trip to Japan was a GTR but looked like the seats hadn't seen a repair in twenty years! It also had all the GTR 'bits' removed so as to make it look less like a GTR


"_GTR 'bits'_" being what, in this instance? If it had a PGC10, KPGC10 or KPGC110 chassis code then it _was_ a GT-R, regardless of what was - or was not - attached to it. Part Number One is the unibody itself. You could say that Part Number Two was the S20 engine, so did this mystery car have a proper 'R' body and S20, or not? 



Fuggles said:


> Needless to say this was still about 320k if you wanted it - not that it was for sale.


So it was not for sale, but it still had a 'price' on it? What currency is the "320k" in?



One thing is for sure, there's more nonsense and half baked hearsay written about the C10 and C110 series GT-Rs on English language web forums than just about any other car. 





Moff said:


> Where do I find info ?


I recommend you start with the excellent *'C10 SKYLINE COMPLETE BOOK'*, first published by Geibun Mooks in late 2008 as one of their Nostalgic Hero specials, with ISBN978-4-87465-917-5. 

Start there.


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

PS30-SB, you do seem to be coming across as 'annoyed' ?

I know nothing about these cars, and don't pretend to. Anyone pointing me in the right direction is helpful 

Looking under that title, it appears to be in Japanese, is it available in English ?


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Moff said:


> PS30-SB, you do seem to be coming across as 'annoyed' ?


'Mildly frustrated' might be more accurate. I have my tongue planted firmly in my cheek, though...... 



Moff said:


> Looking under that title, it appears to be in Japanese, is it available in English ?


Nope.

The pictures are in 'English' though.


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

PS30-SB said:


> 'Mildly frustrated' might be more accurate. I have my tongue planted firmly in my cheek, though......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why is tongue in cheek ?

I can look at pretty pictures on the web, or here The KPGC10 Skyline Picture Thread - Skyline Owners Club - The Nissan Skyline Enthusiast Community

Saying that though, there are probably many incorrectly named versions on there.

Do you know the spec differences, or where possible to find the spec differences ?

I'm guessing only trim levels are the main differences, as the Turbo engine was not out then, and technology was a little behind then ?


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

PS30-SB said:


> So it was not for sale, but it still had a 'price' on it? What currency is the "320k" in?


sorry 'finger trouble', should have read £20k (have now changed the original post)

as for non-GTR.....
a lot of people get confused. The KPGC10 is a GTR but there are also very similar version that are not GTRs and its not always easy to tell them apart at first glance. As in the case of the owner in Sinagawa he wanted to make it look like an 'lesser' version and not a GTR. In simple terms the C10 Skyline went on sale in 1968. In 1970 the KGC10 was launched with a bigger engine. It was known also as the 2000GTX. the GTR version first appeared in 1969. Sorry for my error in trying to be helpful


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Moff said:


> Why is tongue in cheek ?


It's an attempt to stay relatively sane. 



Moff said:


> Do you know the spec differences, or where possible to find the spec differences ?


They are all in the book that I recommended to you.

Have you bought it yet?


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

You're proving my maxim about bad facts right again:



Fuggles said:


> In simple terms the C10 Skyline went on sale in 1968. In 1970 the KGC10 was launched with a bigger engine. It was known also as the 2000GTX. the GTR version first appeared in 1969. Sorry for my error in trying to be helpful


C10-series Skyline was launched in August 1968 ( four cylinder G15-engined 'short nose' C10, WC10 & VC10 models ). 

Six cyl. L20A-engined four door '2000GT' ( GC10 ) model debuted in November 1968.

Six cyl. S20-engined four door '2000GT-R' ( PGC10 ) model debuted in February 1969.

Four-cyl. G18-engined 'short nose' four door 1800 ( PC10, WPC10 & VPC10 models ) debuted in August 1969.

Six-cyl. L20A-engined two door 'Hard Top' '2000GT' ( KGC10 ) model, and six-cyl. S20 engined two door 'Hard Top' '2000GT-R' ( KPGC10 ) model debuted in October 1970.

Six-cyl. L20A-engined two door 'Hard Top' 2000GT-X' ( KGC10 ) model debuted in September 1971.

There's a lot more to it than that of course ( lots of other sub-variants and trim specs ), but that's a fair outline I think......



Buy the books.


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

PS30-SB said:


> Have you bought it yet?


I will an English version.


----------



## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Wikipedia has some info,

And I dare say by now its been edited by people who actually know what they're talking about !!

DaveW is starting to grow in knowledge it seems and has a real interest so he should be able to help, and there are quite a few threads on here if you have a hunt, in fact I'd just look up all of P30's old posts as he has been quite forthcoming in the past when he's not on his period !!   

Personally I would settle for a KGC10 with an RB30 and To4z, but Im a total git and have no respect for anything, so dont listen to me !!


----------



## Mick-skyline (May 1, 2009)

Moff said:


> PS30-SB, you do seem to be coming across as 'annoyed' ?



no he seems to be coming across xxxx, 

PS30-SB you have the info know where to get it and are annoyed people dont know much about them, so when moff comes on asking for info instead of being a **** and saying go research them buy this book that you can look at and not understand it because its in japanese, maybe you could pull the stick out of your XXXX and give him some info he can work on, like an ENGLISH book, maybe a website that has info, maybe even a pic of yours pointing out some things to look for when buying one to make sure its genuine. :lamer:

where i heard it from about being hard to get one from japan was from an importer here in ireland about 2 years ago, maybe he was telling me that just to fob me off or maybe it was true but as i was only enquiring i didnt go too far into looking.


----------



## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Whoa !!

I dont think one of the most knowledgeable people on this forum deserves such a load of shit to be thrown at them by some newbie with a wound up keyboard just because they dont offer to spoon feed the forum with the answer to its questions.

Wind yer ****in neck in !!

P30 is a keen enthusiast who has spent a great deal of time researching this subject despite there being very little information readily available on the subject outside of Japan. These cars are becoming "fashionable" and often are being considered by people who have no real love for them or their heritage and just fancy a "look". I can totally understand and respect him being guarded about giving away all it has taken him years to source just so someone else can possibly ruin one of the few cars left (no disrespect Moff, not really aimed at you mate) in order to satify a whim.

So when a thread like this crops up inevitably getting polluted with the same innaccuracies and hearsay as normal i think he's entitled to be a bit exasperrated. Im sure in time he will give some more hints as he has done in the past, but like he says, a truly motivated person will do a lot of the digging for themselves. We all get a little precious over things we care deeply about from time to time and i dont think he deserves a battering just because he is being a little guarded about a subject he is passionate about.

J.


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Moff said:


> I will an English version.


The book I recommended has clear illustrations comparing all the trim levels, details and variations for the C10 model range. It also shows many of the different original sales brochures / catalogues, reproduces an original KGC10/KPGC10/GC10 owner's manual, part of the GC10 factory parts manual and one of the Sports Option parts lists. I can't think of any single source now in print that offers so much _information_ in one compact and inexpensive format. It's all fairly easy to understand and it is presented in a way that is very accessible to non Japanese-readers.

How can you profess to be interested in these cars and at the same time reject one of the best sources of data just because it isn't in English? These are old _Japanese_ cars that have had very little written about them in the English language. Personally, I find the challenge of obtaining the data is all part of their mystery and charm. It's an intrinsic part of getting to know them.


----------



## syclone (Oct 27, 2009)

look here 
HAKOSUKA VINTAGE JDM Nissan Skyline KGC10 GT-X Modified | 1971 KGC10 GT-R Style HAKOSUKA VINTAGE SKYLINE

to get an impression what a replica goes for.

from what i´ve read in other forums, a REAL KPGC10 is around € 80.000.- and difficult to get and more difficult to get out of japan (they do have an export restriction for rare automobiles, don´t they?!).

just my € 0.02, so don´t flame me (or do if you think you must...:flame


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

PS30-SB said:


> You're proving my maxim about bad facts right again


Actually if you read what I wrote it matches your list, although mine provided some brevity. As regards your comments in general you clearly have got an issue with anyone trying to help so I wont bother from now on. Good luck with your purchase if you do.


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Hey guys, a few chill pills are needed here, don't make me moderate this thread.


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

information is good

picky is not, will you all privide some easy to digest info for us plebs (common people of ancient Rome) can understand

I have a load of books in japanese but its hard to understand the specs of what you get in the late 60s/70s, I only just read English and these funny jap characters are beyond me

be nice about it as well, the forum is for sharing not showing who knows more


----------



## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

tonigmr2 said:


> Hey guys, a few chill pills are needed here, don't make me moderate this thread.


HAHA !!

When did you become a mod ??

I remember you when you were just some banana loving weirdo !!


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

bladerider said:


> HAHA !!
> 
> When did you become a mod ??
> 
> I remember you when you were just some banana loving weirdo !!


All true, and about 2 months ago.:thumbsup: Now be good, else I shall tell you off.


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

:chuckle: @ some of these posts! Oh, venerable knowledgable masters of information you are right to limit our intake, as surely the wisdom must be gained on a long journey (etc. etc.).

please.

there are many people on his forum with so much knowledge of a broad range of topics, and that (for me) makes it a good place to learn.

I'm only too happy to share what I know if a topic comes up which is relevant; I don't care who reads it, nor how long it took me to gain that knowledge, or what they intend to do after reading it.

:chuckle:


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Fuggles said:


> Actually if you read what I wrote it matches your list, although mine provided some brevity.


LOL. No it doesn't! 

The KGC10 had the same size engine as the GC10 ( so how was it "launched with a bigger engine"? ) and it wasn't initially known as the '2000GT-X' ( the '2000GT-X' model didn't debut until September 1971 ).

Thanks for providing the brevity" though  



Fuggles said:


> As regards your comments in general you clearly have got an issue with anyone trying to help so I wont bother from now on. Good luck with your purchase if you do.


I've had the pip with _you_ ever since you promised a magazine editor that my car would be attending his photo shoot ( without you even _asking_ me ), and I had to sort out all the nonsense stemming from that myself. 

What with that, the period pains, xxxx and all the bad data on this thread, is it any wonder I've got the hump? 


[polite mode]syclone, There are NO official restrictions on the private export of PGC10, KPGC10 & KPGC110 models. The Yakuza could not care less ( despite what you might have been told ) and early GT-R owners are happy to see cars being exported as it makes _their_ cars rarer. The only thing that stops them being exported in greater numbers is lack of correct data, lack of imagination, lack of ambition and lack of _money_. [/polite mode]


----------



## Mick-skyline (May 1, 2009)

Robbie J said:


> information is good
> 
> picky is not, will you all privide some easy to digest info for us plebs (common people of ancient Rome) can understand
> 
> ...


agree with the above, owners clubs are supposed to be a great source of info, and last time i checked this was an owners club.



bladerider said:


> Whoa !!
> 
> I dont think one of the most knowledgeable people on this forum deserves such a load of shit to be thrown at them by some newbie with a wound up keyboard just because they dont offer to spoon feed the forum with the answer to its questions.
> 
> ...


:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

i may be a newbie on here, but ive been around skylines for a few years, and for your info my keyboard is plug in not a wind up 

and if he was that passionate about them then he'd HELP someone in finding the info they are looking for!

which is what this thread is about, not some over protective stuck up know it all afraid to give info on an OWNERS CLUB FORUM, but suppose what would i know im just a gtr.co.uk newbie :bawling:


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

PS30-SB said:


> The book I recommended has clear illustrations comparing all the trim levels, details and variations for the C10 model range. It also shows many of the different original sales brochures / catalogues, reproduces an original KGC10/KPGC10/GC10 owner's manual, part of the GC10 factory parts manual and one of the Sports Option parts lists. I can't think of any single source now in print that offers so much _information_ in one compact and inexpensive format. It's all fairly easy to understand and it is presented in a way that is very accessible to non Japanese-readers.
> 
> How can you profess to be interested in these cars and at the same time reject one of the best sources of data just because it isn't in English? These are old _Japanese_ cars that have had very little written about them in the English language. Personally, I find the challenge of obtaining the data is all part of their mystery and charm. It's an intrinsic part of getting to know them.


If someone said 'here, have a japanese comic, its ok, you'll understand it from the pictures' I wouldn't be so keen, like the German R35 owners book, I didn't understand much of it from looking. I found the book you mention on an Australian site but it was £50, is that the price ?

My reason for starting this thread is I have wanted one for a couple of years (hence sending you a PM recently), and have set myself a personal challenge to get one by the time I am 35 (3 and 'arf years). So now is a good time to begin research.

I can be young Luke Skyline and you can teach me


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Judging by some of the other comments on this thread, I'm not the only person that thinks PS30-SB is a bit of a pratt. With such expert testimony he should be on Mastermind and not belittle himself on this forum correcting us plebs for having the audacity to make a mistake about a ****ing car. If you're that clever, why aren't you writing the books instead of copy and pasting facts on here? And there's me thinking I had a superiority complex, you beat me hands down!! LOL :lamer:


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Moff, sorry for sending you the wrong car. Thanks to the Oracle advising me of my mistake, I've now seen the error of my ways. :chuckle: Sorry dude, I don't know anything about 40 year old Datsuns, how about a nice 120? I'm sure it would look awesome with some GTR badges


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

PS30-SB said:


> I've had the pip with _you_ ever since you promised a magazine editor that my car would be attending his photo shoot ( without you even _asking_ me ), and I had to sort out all the nonsense stemming from that myself.


I have no idea to what you are referring. Anyone that knows me will tell you I am scrupulously detailed about things like this. If a journo was at a show that you were going to be at they may have been aware of it from me or from the forum or in general in other ways. I have only EVER provided inforrmation to journos if they have asked for it only AFTER checking with the owner(s) first. I have sourced many cars for shoots and have used my contacts with journos to the betterment of the club but only where all are agreed. I am sure there are a lot of people who would confirm this to be exactly true. If some journo has come to you saying I promised your car would be there perhaps you should have asked me to confirm or perhaps given some consideration that perhaps the journo was using your association with this forum (and thereby me) to get what he wanted.

Maybe next time to get the "pip" you should confirm the details rather than just making assumptions and getting it wrong. By all means ask around and see if anyone else has had the same problem with 'me' or better still ask around and see how many people have had their car featured in various magazines for which they received a request from me in advance and all details were agreed and sorted before any kind of agreement was made.


----------



## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

John told me he was young handsome and had hair,

But that wasn't on THIS website   

J.


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Guys, I have to agree with Bladerider here. PS-30 doesn't have to spend time giving advice & sharing info on here. I'm sure the knowledge he has - is learnt through a LOT of time and research. The quality of his KPGC10 is testimony enough that he's well connected and knows his stuff.

If some people behave like the above, chances are next time he won't be as inclined to share and that would be to the detriment of those looking for such knowledge. 

Play nice...


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Agree Miguel 

I am happy to read and learn, just need to know where to start.


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Fuggles said:


> I have no idea to what you are referring. Anyone that knows me will tell you I am scrupulously detailed about things like this. If a journo was at a show that you were going to be at they may have been aware of it from me or from the forum or in general in other ways. I have only EVER provided inforrmation to journos if they have asked for it only AFTER checking with the owner(s) first. I have sourced many cars for shoots and have used my contacts with journos to the betterment of the club but only where all are agreed. I am sure there are a lot of people who would confirm this to be exactly true. If some journo has come to you saying I promised your car would be there perhaps you should have asked me to confirm or perhaps given some consideration that perhaps the journo was using your association with this forum (and thereby me) to get what he wanted.
> 
> Maybe next time to get the "pip" you should confirm the details rather than just making assumptions and getting it wrong. By all means ask around and see if anyone else has had the same problem with 'me' or better still ask around and see how many people have had their car featured in various magazines for which they received a request from me in advance and all details were agreed and sorted before any kind of agreement was made.


It was a while back now ( 2008 - so perhaps you have forgotten about it ) but you "guaranteed" the attendance of my KPGC10 to Chris Reece of Japanese Performance Magazine. This despite having had no contact with me on the matter. I found out on another forum that my car was attending this photo shoot ( news to me! ) and I had to get in touch with Chris Reece myself to sort it all out. It was Chris Reece himself that told me you had "guaranteed" my car would attend. So far, I've never received any explanation of why this happened. It certainly wasn't any of _my_ doing, so how come I had to sweep up afterwards?




Moff said:


> If someone said 'here, have a japanese comic, its ok, you'll understand it from the pictures' I wouldn't be so keen, like the German R35 owners book, I didn't understand much of it from looking. I found the book you mention on an Australian site but it was £50, is that the price ?


The cover price on the book is 1,905 JPY. I recommend you buy it direct from Amazon Japan.

If you don't trust my judgement over less than fifteen quid's worth of book, it's hard to imagine you spending your hard-earned on a forty year old car on someone else's say-so.....


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

I'm not going to comment on the good or bad points of the KGB10PSOX

I do have the books but I prefer the pictures 

I think I was at the photoshoot, it was the R33/R34 verses the R35 in the end and I had lots of fun driving around private race track for 2 hours for free in my R33 and R35, anybody who likes to drive would have loved it

As nice as Chris is at JP he is press and can get a little carried away if you mention something and wants to stick it in his magazine. I'm sure John might have mentioned it to JP that there was car he knew but Chris would have taken that John would get it.

Yes as Miguel says we want people to post good info. Being nice about it helps


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

PS30-SB said:


> It was a while back now ( 2008 - so perhaps you have forgotten about it ) but you "guaranteed" the attendance of my KPGC10 to Chris Reece of Japanese Performance Magazine. This despite having had no contact with me on the matter. I found out on another forum that my car was attending this photo shoot ( news to me! ) and I had to get in touch with Chris Reece myself to sort it all out. It was Chris Reece himself that told me you had "guaranteed" my car would attend. So far, I've never received any explanation of why this happened. It certainly wasn't any of _my_ doing, so how come I had to sweep up afterwards?


If I had done something like that I would have remembered because it would have been the only time. If it was Goodwood then I recall an announcement from Goodwood (or maybe Nissan) saying your car would be there. I do not recall all my conversations with Chris - we talk often - but it may have done but only if the information was already in the public domain. Anything that is said to me in confidence will always remain confidential and I am sure companies such as Nissan as well as top tuners, commercial organisations, event companies, other clubs and forums, as well as individuals, will all confirm that to be the case. If the information was public then Chirs and I may have discussed. If it was confidential then I would have discussed it with no-one. As I have said before I will only ever work with a journo once and after agreement in full is made with the owner and/or driver.


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Robbie J said:


> I think I was at the photoshoot, it was the R33/R34 verses the R35 .....


And if that was the article in question then those that were at the meeting where I suggested it to Chris will know that my suggestion was to take a Stage 1 modified R33 and compare it to a standard r35 and compare what should be two equal cars. I didn't suggest the R34 that was all chris' idea and certainly never suggested any other cars. Indeed the R34 (standard) sandwiched inbetween the stage 1 r33 and the standard R35 made the article less rather than more so the idea of another car would have further detracted from the article


----------



## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Boosted said:


> Moff, sorry for sending you the wrong car. Thanks to the Oracle advising me of my mistake, I've now seen the error of my ways. :chuckle: Sorry dude, I don't know anything about 40 year old Datsuns, how about a nice 120? I'm sure it would look awesome with some GTR badges


Oddly the idea of a 120 with an RB in it appeals to me. In fact an SR20 would probably do. Sort of mk2 Escort with Zetec.

This thread reminds me of ones I read on the Lotus owners site about Elans and the difficulties of finds 1960s air to put in the tyres...


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

This had nothing to do with Goodwood or Nissan GB. It was a photo shoot to accompany a planned article on - and I quote - _"..the evolution of the Skyline GT-R."_. Somebody by the name of Guy was also involved in coordinating it.

I presume as soon as they realised that there are no PGC10s or KPGC110s in the UK, and that I wasn't bringing my KPGC10, that they didn't have anything to shoot......

I certainly didn't make it all up. Chris Reece told me that you - John Fuggles - had arranged my attendance. If that was a misunderstanding between you two then how come I still ended up sorting it all out myself?

And I've asked you more than once on this forum _who_ exactly is the GTROC member you claim owns a "KPGC10", but you always ignore the question. It certainly isn't me, so who is it?


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Book Ordered from Amazon Japan... Will be with me by approx 20th March.. Shipping was more than the book.. !!!


----------



## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Cool

Dibs on borrowing !!


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

bladerider said:


> Cool
> 
> Dibs on borrowing !!


I'll scan it and post it up on the forum for all to share 

Members section only of course...


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

Moff you can post all the specs then 

it was Chris at JP that decided that a R34 would add something.... not sure it did, hey that's the press. Not sure PS30-SB has got that point yet as he is to busy trying to have dig


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

PS30-SB said:


> This had nothing to do with Goodwood or Nissan GB. It was a photo shoot to accompany a planned article on - and I quote - _"..the evolution of the Skyline GT-R."_. Somebody by the name of Guy was also involved in coordinating it.
> 
> I presume as soon as they realised that there are no PGC10s or KPGC110s in the UK, and that I wasn't bringing my KPGC10, that they didn't have anything to shoot......
> 
> ...


Ah yes I remember that one. I was asked by Chris to source a number of cars, ran a thread in the Members area asking people to put their names forward and then sent the list to Chris to select the best cars. He asked for a broader list that I was able to source and so I suggested there was a forum user who had such a car. I have no contact details that I can recall of you so may have sent you a PM or he may have agreed to contact you directly. At no time was your car - or any other car for that matter - 'promised' by me or anyone esle from this forum. If there was a miscommunication and it was my fault then i am happy to accept that and apologise. However I have never put forward a car to any journo without full prior agreement and would never dare to suggest anycar was available without first asking the owner if they are interested. Everyone esle at that shoot had a good time and will confirm that due process was followed. If, as you say, it was a misunderstanding between Chris and myself then I apologise for my part in that error.


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Robbie J said:


> Moff you can post all the specs then


Not a problem. I work with a couple of Japanese people, so will get them involved to translate.

I am on holiday in March, returning on the 23rd, so it should be here when I get home to scan and post 



Fuggles said:


> Ah yes I remember that one. I was asked by Chris to source a number of cars, ran a thread in the Members area asking people to put their names forward and then sent the list to Chris to select the best cars. He asked for a broader list that I was able to source and so I suggested there was a forum user who had such a car. I have no contact details that I can recall of you so may have sent you a PM or he may have agreed to contact you directly. At no time was your car - or any other car for that matter - 'promised' by me or anyone esle from this forum. If there was a miscommunication and it was my fault then i am happy to accept that and apologise. However I have never put forward a car to any journo without full prior agreement and would never dare to suggest anycar was available without first asking the owner if they are interested. Everyone esle at that shoot had a good time and will confirm that due process was followed. If, as you say, it was a misunderstanding between Chris and myself then I apologise for my part in that error.


Gerrof my thread


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Robbie J said:


> it was Chris at JP that decided that a R34 would add something.... not sure it did, hey that's the press. Not sure PS30-SB has got that point yet as he is to busy trying to have dig


Easy for you to make light of it all, but it was quite a big deal to me at the time. I was told that I was due to be turning up for something that had already been arranged at some effort and expense, and was likely to be cancelled because I was going to be a "no show". Nobody had bothered to ask me, and nobody had bothered to check that my car was in a position to attend in the first place. At the time it was up on jackstands with its brakes and transmission on the bench next to it.....

I can't comment on any 'R33/R34 versus R35' shoot you attended, except to say that it would obviously be quite a different subject to what was described to me as covering the "history" of the GT-R marque. Perhaps this was what was arranged when they couldn't get any earlier generation cars?

Fuggles - I sent you a PM on this forum at the time, and received no reply. If you were in my position, what would _you_ think? I certainly didn't get an apology from Chris Reece, as he seemed to think it wasn't his fault either.....


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

PS30-SB said:


> Fuggles - I sent you a PM on this forum at the time, and received no reply. .....


That's not like me. I am usually very thorough at replying and usually quite timely. Sorry


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

at the time PS30-SB there wasn't many R35s around (about 6), so originaly wanted a line up of cars showing the history and then could have well have changed his mind as it was done by Nissan in Japan

all the other R35s came with bagage promoting a tuner, mine was just promoting the club

Making light of it wasn't the point, the point was Chris R changed the game on me, he could have on you as well but you are convinced its Fuggles, that's my point


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Robbie J said:


> Making light of it wasn't the point, the point was Chris R changed the game on me, he could have on you as well but you are convinced its Fuggles, that's my point


I think you're missing _my_ point. I was just the innocent party in the middle of some kind of misunderstanding between two other people, and Chris Reece ( only after I went to the trouble of finding out who he was, and getting in contact with him ) told me - and I quote - that John Fuggles had "guaranteed" my car's attendance. When I contacted John Fuggles by PM here to ask about it, I received no reply. What else was I supposed to think?





As for this thread in general, it started off badly for me when I saw Moff asking about the prices of KPGC10s, when I took some time and trouble to try and help him on that very subject by PM not so very long ago. Within seven posts he was already getting given bad data ( including 'Boosted' telling him that one was available for " £13,790 landed"  ) and it feels like groundhog day. Come on, it's not that difficult to understand that a KGC10 GT or GT-X wearing GT-R emblems is NOT a KPGC10, and it's been said a hundred times. If somebody came on here with a picture of an R32 GTS wearing GT-R emblems, asking how much a GT-R goes for, they'd get short shrift wouldn't they?

I've just received a very helpful PM from a forum member called 'chippy'. With delicious irony, 'chippy' was kind enough to point out that I was coming across as a bit er, _chippy_. Is it any wonder!?


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

really i have no problem



> and I quote - that John Fuggles had "guaranteed" my car's attendance


I just can't see John saying that! My point still stands that Chris is press, part of my job is PR for 6 Billion $ company, never trust the press! 101 of PR training 

i would be really nice if you could link or post up pictures of your car, there is serious interest and help us plebs a lot


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

I'd love to own one of these 10's one day, albeit in gtx look alike guise. Just aint in the position to buy the real thing. The yen rate dont help neither. Before the recession, you could find genuine gtrs for 9 million yen upwards. back then, that was roughly £38k, and that was before shipping, duty etc.

A gtr 'copy', would have been£12-14k back then. Your looking in the £20k+ now though.


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

Robbie J said:


> ...i would be really nice if you could link or post up pictures of your car, there is serious interest and help us plebs a lot


I'd like to see it too, but I'm afraid my knowledge on these is zero (well, apart from the info I've read in this thread). Hope that's okay.


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Robbie J said:


> i would be really nice if you could link or post up pictures of your car, there is serious interest and help us plebs a lot


My KPGC10 has had plenty of exposure on this forum in the past. The threads are still up, as far as I'm aware.

But really, what's up with your _"us plebs"_ comment and ru's _"hope that's OK"_ comment? I've tried to help people when they have asked me for help by PM, but then I see a thread like this from one of those same people, asking the same questions as though my time was wasted. Time and time again I see people getting _real_ KPGC10s confused with lookalikes based on KGC10 GTs and GT-Xs. In terms of rarity, perceived value and availability they are two _completely_ different things. 

If somebody came on here confusing the prices and models of the later series GT-Rs with GT, GTS and GTS-T models they'd be 'advised' quite quickly I think. So why the sarky comments from the peanut gallery when it's the peanut gallery that's making the mistakes in the first place? 

Can't you see where I'm coming from on this? I feel like I'm knocking my head against a brick wall, trying to coax people time and time again into understanding such a _basic_ thing as a simple chassis code. I've even ended feeling like I had to _force_ Moff into spending a few quid on a _book_, whilst being called all sorts of daft names by the very people who are giving him _bad_ information. Bizarre. 




Kudos to dean j for putting it all in a nutshell. I'm afraid that skill escapes me, because words are 'free' and I can't use one when ten more are at the end of my fingers.....


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Moff said:


> Book Ordered from Amazon Japan... Will be with me by approx 20th March.. Shipping was more than the book.. !!!



Cool, you can bring it when you test drive the new kitchen!!



ps: No veggie crap..........or pot noodle!!


:chuckle:


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

PS30-SB said:


> My KPGC10 has had plenty of exposure on this forum in the past. The threads are still up, as far as I'm aware.
> 
> But really, what's up with your _"us plebs"_ comment and ru's _"hope that's OK"_ comment? I've tried to help people when they have asked me for help by PM, but then I see a thread like this from one of those same people, asking the same questions as though my time was wasted. Time and time again I see people getting _real_ KPGC10s confused with lookalikes based on KGC10 GTs and GT-Xs. In terms of rarity, perceived value and availability they are two _completely_ different things.
> 
> ...


It wasn't the fact that you corrected us folks that don't know the exact specs of the car, it was your condescending attitude that pissed everybody off. 

If you had pointed out that our information was incorrect in a less than snotty way, then all this could, and would have been, avoided. :thumbsup:


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

So _your_ mistakes are all _my_ fault, then!

I pointed out that I had my tongue firmly planted in my cheek quite early in the thread. If that whizzed over your head then it's not for lack of indication on my part. Don't you _do_ irony? You wouldn't happen to be an American by any chance would you? opcorn:

People ask for "specs". I'm sure they have no idea just how complicated it all is when you start dissecting it all, but the basic problem here seems to be that people are confusing proper 'P' code KPGC10s ( with S20 24v twin cam engines and everything that goes with them ) with lookalikes based on KGC10 GT and GT-X models ( which came from the factory originally with 12 valve SOHC L20A engines and a myriad of differing trim specs and options ). 

So its all in the _actual_ chassis code of the car _as it left the factory_. All bets are off on the "specs" of modified cars - _especially_ when they are GTs and GT-Xs wearing 'GT-R' badges. Each one will be unique.

Anyone attempting to explain all that in layman's terms appears to be on a hiding to nothing.



Here, have some pretty pictures: http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/114285-classic-sports-car-magazine-kpgc10-hakosuka-gt-r-article.html


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

i know its being posted before but what the heck

YouTube - Hakosuka Skyline GTR


its nice that the fact that i call myself a pleb upsets you PS30-SB


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

PS30-SB said:


> So _your_ mistakes are all _my_ fault, then!
> 
> I pointed out that I had my tongue firmly planted in my cheek quite early in the thread. If that whizzed over your head then it's not for lack of indication on my part. Don't you _do_ irony? You wouldn't happen to be an American by any chance would you? opcorn:
> 
> ...





Your fault?



Do you know what, I can't even be bothered with you..................thank god I don't have the 'pleasure' of knowing you personally!! :sadwavey:

How's the adenoids? :chairshot


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

KPGC10 racing
 more


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Boosted said:


> .......thank god I don't have the 'pleasure' of knowing you personally!! :sadwavey:


It will be _my_ pleasure not to know you personally too. 

Cheerio!


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Looks like a great example of thread crapping here.


----------



## aferx (Oct 4, 2005)

Come on guys be nice :chairshot


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

PS30-SB said:


> ...But really, what's up with your _"us plebs"_ comment and ru's _"hope that's OK"_ comment? .....


Sorry, it was inflamatory. I don't think posts by Bladerider or Miguel helped, as they seemed to suggest your knowledge was precious and shouldn't be shared.

It's not really the same as R32+ GTR/GTST/GTS etc. questions; they're somewhat more common and the knowledgebase is therefore much broader.


Thanks to those who posted the vid links etc., nice to see


----------



## Andiroo (Aug 13, 2002)

Hey Robbie, the 'thingy' on the first clip seems to rev/sound a lot more and freely than that 'thingy' on the second clip ('thingy' suits me as I would hate to be called an arse for naming it something it isn't).

Is that a difference in gearing between the two I wonder?


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

if it was my first time on this forum looking for info like "moff" was asking about info and i got a reply like he got then i dont think i would return again. 

I would also be intrested in info on these cars also but 5 pages on i still dont know what a c10, kp or what ever it is is! 

Moff asked a simple question, people replied with answers that may not be correct but at least they tried to answer. 

Been told to purchase a book in jap is a great help if you speak english. 

The idea of a forum is to help people with questions they have, peopel learn and then in return will help back in the future. 

I read this thread as "i know it all and im not telling you" thread. If your not prepared to help/answer the questions then why bother replying at all?


----------



## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Deary me, what a messy thread.
With regards to the Alan having the 'pip' and John having the 'pip' debate, i think it's irrelevant in a way to this thread, but can understand the 'shall we say' *lack* of communication and explanations.
Hitherto, the availability and awareness of old japanese books/manuals and info is sometimes, somewhat hard to know where to start with or how and what to look for.
This is a special car we are talking about. No doubt about it. It uncovers lots of unknowns and 'dont want to knows' within the Japanese culture itself, let alone the uneducated outsiders, and i know for a fact that people want certain info and things to stay that way too....maybe one of the very good reasons why Alan doesn't want to disclose everything he knows. Too many people to upset in this short life we live.

Moff, i think you have done the right thing by ordering some books and info. It's a long learning curve with this car, and even then, i doubt the truth and fully laid out history of this car in question will ever be divulged. 
I can understand Alans anguish at laying it all out on a plate sort of manor. After 30 odd years of building such a prolific library of info, i think i'd be a little obsessed if not protective.
I think we should all do a little more info, including myself...hell, even i avoided the model to an extent with the books i wrote with Alex, purely on the kettle of fish it was and there just wasn't enough time to even skim the surface.

Anyway....Alan, some here may think you are a little 'chippy', well, maybe sometimes. We have had our moments of conversation ourselves, but lets try and get something constructive from this. Lets all go away and learn about this car, then at least we can lay down some constructive onfo for all to see. Who contributes to that is their choice. I hope for one you would Alan.


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

mattysupra,
I've provided loads of hard data - coloured with a fair bit of opinion on _rogue_ data - in this thread. I have also given 'Moff' some advice ( obviously not taken ) by PM in the past when he asked for it. You seem to be seeing only what you want to see. 

Do you think there's some kind of one-shot injection of knowledge that can be administered as a cure-all? The truth is that anyone who professes to have an interest in this kind of subject is going to have to do their own legwork and embark on their own personal voyage of discovery. I did, and I consider myself _still_ to be learning. It's a journey that's probably never going to end, and that's fine by me. The voyage is not only about getting to the destination. Personally speaking, I _like_ the idea that I can't get the whole story of these cars just by asking a question on a forum. You can take that as some kind of evidence of my arrogance if you insist, but it actually stems from a deep-seated humility when faced with the challenges of the Japanese language, and uncovering the story behind a forty-something year old Japanese industrial product that was the subject of much wrangling and tension when it was born. There are stories behind these cars that would fill many books that will never be written. 

Now, do me a favour. Go back and look at this thread with an eye on the names I've been called, and the aspersions that have been cast. Colour that with the fact that I've made the same points many times before in the past ( just what part of _a simple chassis code_ do people not understand? ) and also corresponded with Moff by PM over the very same subject of prices. I've piped up many times before on similar threads with what I feel have been relevant points, and I've been all but ignored. Now, how would _you_ feel? 

If you don't see where I'm coming from on this, then so be it. If you can't see it, I can't _make_ you see it.




And Paul, if the struggle on this thread to get somebody to part with a relatively small amount of money for a book is any clue as to the future of _your_ work, then I despair for you. Less than two weeks ago I came back from Japan with another 15 kilos weight of vintage literature to add to about 300kg already here, and I'm not even scratching the surface yet. Moff thinks he's going to scan 194 pages of book and put it online. Ever get the feeling that publishing is doomed?

Me 'chippy'? I couldn't give a damn. People decide what they want to think, and I'm not interested in popularity contests. The cars and the people who designed, engineered, built and raced them are the stars. All the rest of us are just bit-part extras.


----------



## Mick-skyline (May 1, 2009)

PS30-SB said:


> mattysupra,
> I've provided loads of hard data - coloured with a fair bit of opinion on _rogue_ data - in this thread. I have also given 'Moff' some advice ( obviously not taken ) by PM in the past when he asked for it. You seem to be seeing only what you want to see.
> 
> Do you think there's some kind of one-shot injection of knowledge that can be administered as a cure-all? The truth is that anyone who professes to have an interest in this kind of subject is going to have to do their own legwork and embark on their own personal voyage of discovery. I did, and I consider myself _still_ to be learning. It's a journey that's probably never going to end, and that's fine by me. The voyage is not only about getting to the destination. Personally speaking, I _like_ the idea that I can't get the whole story of these cars just by asking a question on a forum. You can take that as some kind of evidence of my arrogance if you insist, but it actually stems from a deep-seated humility when faced with the challenges of the Japanese language, and uncovering the story behind a forty-something year old Japanese industrial product that was the subject of much wrangling and tension when it was born. There are stories behind these cars that would fill many books that will never be written.
> ...



yeah man we get it chasis code..... well done, all that ranting and still thats all you have to point out, get a book you cant read and look at the chasis code of the car your after. well lets just say he has the book (which he still cant read) and finds a car in japan which is for sale as a K*P*GC10 has all the looks of the K*P*GC10 has an S20 engine but cannot see a close up pic of the chasis code and its not listed on the auction sheet.... what else can he look out for???

where would one START to look for more indepth info on the K*P*GC10???

is there anywhere you would recommend when looking or even purchasing a K*P*GC10 seen as you have already sourced one and have imported it.

in your opinion is there dealers in japan who would be reputable to source such a car and in the condition required??



thats the type of info im sure would be helpful in a thread of this stature......

maybe a few answers to those if that doesnt go against the rules of your secret K*P*GC10 self owners club rules??? its not as thoug moff is asking for a full history on the car, why it was built, who by, and what let to its existance, tbh wouldnt it be the same answer to the rest of the skyline family as they all spanned down from its (K*P*GC10) creation.....


then again im only a newbie what would i know right :thumbsup:


----------



## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

This thread is embarrassing


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

PS30-SB said:


> mattysupra,
> I've provided loads of hard data - coloured with a fair bit of opinion on _rogue_ data - in this thread. I have also given 'Moff' some advice ( obviously not taken ) by PM in the past when he asked for it. You seem to be seeing only what you want to see.
> 
> Do you think there's some kind of one-shot injection of knowledge that can be administered as a cure-all? The truth is that anyone who professes to have an interest in this kind of subject is going to have to do their own legwork and embark on their own personal voyage of discovery. I did, and I consider myself _still_ to be learning. It's a journey that's probably never going to end, and that's fine by me. The voyage is not only about getting to the destination. Personally speaking, I _like_ the idea that I can't get the whole story of these cars just by asking a question on a forum. You can take that as some kind of evidence of my arrogance if you insist, but it actually stems from a deep-seated humility when faced with the challenges of the Japanese language, and uncovering the story behind a forty-something year old Japanese industrial product that was the subject of much wrangling and tension when it was born. There are stories behind these cars that would fill many books that will never be written.
> ...



Whilst writing what i wrote i was thinking i should not be sticking my nose in here! However i replied as i am intrested in this said motor. 

maybe i should do a search for info on the motor that yourself has written before? or would i be met by pages of junk posting like this thread? 

To be honest its sort of put me off searching. 

However if what you say is correct and if you have sent pm's etc that seem to of been ignored i would be peeed also. I can also see why you dont want to hand the info out on a plate if it has taken you many years collecting the info.

It seems you "may" have masses of info on this car? i dont know if you do or you dont, its the first time i have spoken to you! but i would love to meet you and talk to you over this car in your local pub. I dought that will ever happen tho. 

Anyway back on subject, apart from these books you mention, where else can i source info about these cars? I dont know what model number is what, all i know is i like the picture and would like more info. 

can i find this info on wiki? or can you supply the basic info on these motors on this forum for us all to benefit from? Im not asking for all your info but for some basic info.


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

paul creed said:


> ...It uncovers lots of unknowns and 'dont want to knows' within the Japanese culture itself, let alone the uneducated outsiders, and i know for a fact that people want certain info and things to stay that way too.......


Sorry, are we still talking about a _*car*_ here, or some sort of mystic martial art meditation voodoo medicine man religeous transcendental experience?

rofl :chuckle:


----------



## Snowfiend (Jul 11, 2006)

Mook said:


> This thread is embarrassing


+1

I think it's a good example of the joke this club/forum is becoming :sadwavey:

SORT IT OUT LADS !!!


----------



## Rbentley (Dec 17, 2007)

Mook said:


> This thread is embarrassing


+1

opcorn:


Good luck with the book, Moff. I hope it helps


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

> Hey Robbie, the 'thingy' on the first clip seems to rev/sound a lot more and freely than that 'thingy' on the second clip ('thingy' suits me as I would hate to be called an arse for naming it something it isn't).
> 
> Is that a difference in gearing between the two I wonder?


i would have to read 300kg of books before i could answer that


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

FFS

Some guy asks a question, and some try to answer it in good faith. Because it didn't meet with the approval of somebody with a ****ing ego the size of Mount Everest it turns into a shit fest, and now everybody is adding to it.

It was the condascending manner in which he 'corrected' us that caused the problem, not us being corrected. And if you aren't prepared to share information on a public forum, why ****ing join it in the first place? :lamer:


----------



## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

Ohhh Moff - what have you done 

Will you please remove the stick currently placed in the bee hive & for christ sake buy your honey from the local Spa :chuckle:

I'll go halves with you on a nice replica (has to have the right bits on, arch extensions & of course GTR badge) 
Original not wanted as would want to track day it & enjoy it - let me know when you get the book mate & send me some piccies


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

John.................I dare you to tub it :flame:




:chuckle:


----------



## xanavi1 (Sep 5, 2008)

im not sure if this is much help but i came across it
HAKOSUKA VINTAGE JDM Nissan Skyline KGC10 GT-X Modified | 1971 KGC10 GT-R Style HAKOSUKA VINTAGE SKYLINE


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

i have been searrhing and i think this is the replica version ? 


Seems to cheap tho? am i way off here? Nissan : R30 SKYLINE HATCH


----------



## supracork (Nov 28, 2008)

So how much is a KPGC10 then


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

mattysupra said:


> i have been searrhing and i think this is the replica version ?
> 
> 
> Seems to cheap tho? am i way off here? Nissan : R30 SKYLINE HATCH



Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha



Matty...................you da man!!!!

:chuckle:


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

:chuckle: @ Matty - beat me to it!


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

what? im serious lads! i have only seen a front view of this car so far :thumbsup:


----------



## Andiroo (Aug 13, 2002)

PS30-SB said:


> Do you think there's some kind of one-shot injection of knowledge that can be administered as a cure-all? The truth is that anyone who professes to have an interest in this kind of subject is going to have to do their own legwork and embark on their own personal voyage of discovery. I did, and I consider myself _still_ to be learning. It's a journey that's probably never going to end, and that's fine by me. The voyage is not only about getting to the destination. Personally speaking, I _like_ the idea that I can't get the whole story of these cars just by asking a question on a forum. You can take that as some kind of evidence of my arrogance if you insist, but it actually stems from a deep-seated humility when faced with the challenges of the Japanese language, and uncovering the story behind a forty-something year old Japanese industrial product that was the subject of much wrangling and tension when it was born. There are stories behind these cars that would fill many books that will never be written.


Sorry mate, you sound like one of those Scientologey happy clappers writing stuff like this ^^^^ in a way like this; 

_"The Scientology religion deals with the KPGC10 spirit and its relationship to the universe and its Creator. It teaches that the fundamental laws of life, when applied, help people achieve a happier and more fulfilling existence, just as surely as an apple falls to the ground when dropped.

Scientology contains numerous workable methods :

- To deal with life situations (it's a car FFS, get over it, FAIL)
- To create strong interpersonal relationships (MAJOR FAIL on all counts IMHO)

It also contains techniques to tackle the most serious social problems of our age — illiteracy, drugs, crime and immorality. Scientology is something one does: it is not just a system of belief of a KPGC10 one is asked to hold.

The keynote of the Scientology religion is the KPGC10 spirit — its salvation and rehabilitation. It teaches that a KPGC10 is a spirit — not a body, a brain, or a fortuitous random conglomeration of genes and chemicals. It is this recognition of the nature of a KPGC10 that forms the foundation of the Scientology religion. Throughout the ages, man has traditionally viewed himself as a spiritual being. It is only in the last century that the materialistic idea that man is a mere animal similar to a monkey or rat has taken hold. Scientology teaches that this idea is patently false, unworkable, and acts as a barrier to personal understanding of life. One little suspects how much untapped potential one has to create for the life of his or her KPGC10.

Scientology directly addresses a KPGC10's spiritual nature with answers to the age-old questions — Who am I? What do I consist of? Where do I come from? Where am I going? What is my Chassis Number? This spiritual enlightenment leads to personal understanding of the KPGC10, oneself, others and one’s relationship to the Universe."_

Get over yourself mate, you don't believe in sharing your millenia of information, but you come on t'internet critising pepes who try and find out, with your cryptic clues as to where to start. Your choice, but why not keep it to yourself if you ain't prepared to share publicly?

IMHO, it all smacks of the Hemi 'Cuda/Charger days back in the 80's, is it a Hemi, was it a Hemi, there's STP stickers on my 340, was it a Hemi before STP started track racing? And you know what, the pepes that 'knew' came out with all the info they had. And guess what, coz all the hype had happened, and then public information had taken all the risk *out* of buying a Hemi, the prices went up, because more pepes were prepared to buy :thumbsup: Which ultimateley is what you want, the value of your car going up :smokin:

Just my 2p.

Btw mate, what's your thoughts on the two vids Robbie posted earlier and the difference in revving/sound?


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

a lot has gone on in this thread as a moderator i should try to calm it down but so much has happened

two people don't like each other over a misunderstanding a year ago
somebody has rare car and has strong opinions on how knowledge about it should be diseminated
plebs (I mean from the roman point of view) ask novice questions on a serious thread
lots of crapping

how do you mod this? and yes i'm as bad as a lot of you


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Robbie 


forget about it mate, nobody has died


----------



## Andiroo (Aug 13, 2002)

Hard choice Robbie, you can only moderate peoples opinions. People want to know about KPGC10's, and on another forum our friend has piped up with his opinions on people wanting to know opinions about the KPGC10. However, the general consensus of opinions is that his opinion, isn't an opinion, it is actually a non-opinion ie.a refusal to be opinionistic. So, myself being a lasy oik...

Ban searches/questions on KPGC10's is the easy route


----------



## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Robbie J said:


> two people don't like each other over a misunderstanding a year ago


I would disagree with that. Whatever someone else's opinion is of me it cannot be said that my opions is as suggested. Sorry to disagree


----------



## Grim_ (Aug 18, 2008)

Every now & then I get a reminder as to why I rarely ever post......this thread is one such reminder.

  




As a footnote....what a wonderful car and an excellent photograph.


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

its "moffs" and "fuggles" fault. 

if "moff" had not asked the question in the first place then there would be no thread. 

If "fuggles" had .... ummm ummmm what did fuggles do a again? 

Well anyway, i have purchased a KP fingy but im sure its a nissan bluebird. I was so confused by this thread i just went for it. I will post some pics when it arrives.


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Grim_ said:


> Every now & then I get a reminder as to why I rarely ever post......this thread is one such reminder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


great photo, can i ask? what car is this? a KP....... or is this a c10 or is it a r30? or something else? 


I would like to know the basics of what im looking at! simple


----------



## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

ru' said:


> Sorry, are we still talking about a _*car*_ here, or some sort of mystic martial art meditation voodoo medicine man religeous transcendental experience?
> 
> rofl :chuckle:


well laugh you may, but we are talking about a car that was, as Alan says, in it's time a controversial racing machine...like many other marques of car, their racing pedigree holds many a debate. It takes time, dedication and a complete obsessive nature to look into the correct history of certain cars....I kind of like that in a way. It does add to the mystical nature of the car. maybe it's because i am a vintage racing enthusiast myself, i dunno, but i do understand the, and i repeat, obsessive nature it can portray. 
Personally i don't see what is wrong with knowing what is the true and correct history, especially when it comes to topic such as this. You think Ferrari or Maserati or O.S.C.A were any different??, hell, people with more money than all of put together are still wrangling over what engine and chassis did and should have gone where.....BUT...
this thread _IS_ about a particular model, and as such i think it would be helpful to maybe not be so historical or even histerical about it, and perhaps bring it to a level where the info required is capped to a normal level. Nothing wrong with people having obsessions, and also nothing wrong with people only wanting to know the basic/necessary facts.


----------



## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

mattysupra said:


> great photo, can i ask? what car is this? a KP....... or is this a c10 or is it a r30? or something else?
> 
> 
> I would like to know the basics of what im looking at! simple


Quite simple Matty, its a 1971 KPGC10 'Hakosuka' GT-R.


----------



## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

PS-30-SB.

Is there anywhere that we can see some quailty photos of your car.

I too have wanted one since seeing some old footage of them racing against RX3's and the like.....But at the price that a REAL one goes for, It will remain a pipe dream.

Chris.


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

paul creed said:


> Quite simple Matty, its a 1971 KPGC10 'Hakosuka' GT-R.


Personally, I thought it was an Escort Mexico!! :flame:


:chuckle:


----------



## paul creed (Feb 18, 2003)

Sub Boy said:


> PS-30-SB.
> 
> Is there anywhere that we can see some quailty photos of your car.
> 
> ...


http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/114285-classic-sports-car-magazine-kpgc10-hakosuka-gt-r-article.html


----------



## Mani (Jan 30, 2009)

mattysupra said:


> its "moffs" and "fuggles" fault.
> 
> if "moff" had not asked the question in the first place then there would be no thread.
> 
> ...


:chuckle: I'm gonna end up dying laughing tonight - You need to stop this lol!!!!


----------



## Mani (Jan 30, 2009)

Robbie J said:


> i know its being posted before but what the heck
> 
> YouTube - Hakosuka Skyline GTR
> 
> ...


An amazing vid mate - Love the sound of the car :thumbsup:


----------



## slacker (Dec 10, 2007)

My grandfather has one of these in his garage at his house, it hasnt been driven in over 15 years,
are they really worth that much?!


----------



## Mani (Jan 30, 2009)

slacker said:


> My grandfather has one of these in his garage at his house, it hasnt been driven in over 15 years,
> are they really worth that much?!


I think from some of the craziness I've seen on this thread I'd say even a broken one would be worth something :chuckle:


----------



## slacker (Dec 10, 2007)

My grandfather took alot of drugs in the 70's!

crazy ass thread!


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Mani said:


> I think from some of the craziness I've seen on this thread I'd say even a broken one would be worth something :chuckle:


I've got a mk1 Escort, I'm just waiting for some GTR badges to arrive from Japan and then it's going on Ebay


----------



## Mani (Jan 30, 2009)

slacker said:


> My grandfather took alot of drugs in the 70's!
> 
> crazy ass thread!


lol!!!!!!!!! I bet you could get passengers on those sideskirts lol!


----------



## Mani (Jan 30, 2009)

Boosted said:


> I've got a mk1 Escort, I'm just waiting for some GTR badges to arrive from Japan and then it's going on Ebay


:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle: Don't make me get my VTI with the Type R badges :chuckle:


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

paul creed said:


> Nothing wrong with people having obsessions, and also nothing wrong with people only wanting to know the basic/necessary facts.


Paul,
The long, tall and short of this whole thing is that Moff doesn't actually _want_ a genuine KPGC10 anyway. What he needs is something that _looks_ a bit like one from 20 feet away, but at a tenth of the price. Nothing I can do or say is going to sort that for him, and if he can't get his head around such a simple thing as the basic chassis codes, then who _else_ is going to be able to sort it out for him?

The peanut gallery is really excelling itself tonight. Posts from 'Andiroo' have still to be deciphered ( is that _really_ English? ), but perhaps a bit too much _"scientologey"_ ( sic ) was involved. My friend 'Boosted' says nobody has died, but he ought to be charged with attempted murder of the English language ( it's 'cond*e*scend' you silly fool, as the only way to look at you is _down_ ). 'Mattysupra' will be _mentioned in despatches_ for making his mates laugh and confusing everybody else as to whether he's being sincere or just drunk, but 'Mick-skyline' is my new hero for posting completely dud info in record time _and_ managing to call me a "n*nse" on only the second page of the thread. Well done that man! 

Lastly, my thanks to the immoderate "Moderator" 'Robbie J', who hasn't let his judgement interfere with _business as usual_ on the forum. 

Now let's see what a good mopping-up job the hyenas can do.

Much love, and goodnight for tonight.


----------



## Andiroo (Aug 13, 2002)

LOLSPASM... with a LOLALOT thrown in.. and a LOLCOPTER circling above...

Apologies for the extra 'e', maybe that was the Absolut tonight affecting my percieved judgement of my mind to my finger tapping, however the rest of it is 'English' thank you, and also contains a particularised and substantiated opinion


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

PS30-SB said:


> Paul,
> The long, tall and short of this whole thing is that Moff doesn't actually _want_ a genuine KPGC10 anyway. What he needs is something that _looks_ a bit like one from 20 feet away, but at a tenth of the price. Nothing I can do or say is going to sort that for him, and if he can't get his head around such a simple thing as the basic chassis codes, then who _else_ is going to be able to sort it out for him?
> 
> The peanut gallery is really excelling itself tonight. Posts from 'Andiroo' have still to be deciphered ( is that _really_ English? ), but perhaps a bit too much _"scientologey"_ ( sic ) was involved. My friend 'Boosted' says nobody has died, but he ought to be charged with attempted murder of the English language ( it's 'cond*e*scend' you silly fool, as the only way to look at you is _down_ ). 'Mattysupra' will be _mentioned in despatches_ for making his mates laugh and confusing everybody else as to whether he's being sincere or just drunk, but 'Mick-skyline' is my new hero for posting completely dud info in record time _and_ managing to call me a "n*nse" on only the second page of the thread. Well done that man!
> ...


PMSFL

You really do take yourself seriously don't you!!

If I was that uptight I'd book myself in for some colonic irrigation :thumbsup:



opcorn:


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)




----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

This car will upset somebody...................it has a 900bhp Toyota 2JZ motor in it :thumbsup:

Sorry, no chassis codes here :chuckle:


----------



## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Mook said:


> This thread is embarrassing


Yep.

Exactly when did this forum become a bear pit for people to lynch someone for not giving them every shred of information they craved ??

I have long been one of the more blunt administers of what I consider is the the moral compass for this forum and I cannot ever recall this kind of behaviour. If PS30 wants to tell 10% or 100% of the information he has then thats up to him. We should be grateful for any info he shares and thank him for his time to post up what has taken a long time to find out. Not berate him because he has corrected mistaken information given by others in error, or doesnt spew out facts like a human wikipedia at the request of a poster.

get a grip ffs.

He's given us info, he's tried to explain, and maybe he's a bit frustrated at his treatment for which none of us are paying him, so why should he bother at all ?? If someone with knowledge helps you, even if they do it in a way you find a bit rude or a bit guff its still helped you learn something. Keep on with this attitude and eventually people will stop bothering altogether - thats one of the reasons why this car is so hard to find out about in the first place - no one bothers because of all the shit that follows it !!

Im very dissapointed.

HERES A TOP TIP FOR ANYONE SIMPLY WANTING TO BUY ONE........

A relatively normal but probably in need of a fair bit of work NON GTR KGC10 (2 door coupe Hakosuka style) is probably around £10k shipped over. DaveW or Miguel at Newera can help with this for sure.

A relatively nice KGC10 made to look like a GTR but probably still without the right engine, but tidied up as part of the "faking" will set you back around £15-20k and again Dave or Miguel would help.

A genuine KPGC10 2door coupe GT-R Hako will be somewhere around the 40k mark for a tatty one upto 80k for a minter and maybe closer to 100k for one with pedigree. I suspect on Miguel will have the contacts required to source that kind of car - no disrespect to DaveW, but i doubt he's been doing it long enough to have that kind of car available.

J.


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

There was no shit till he started talking down to people, then some got the hump and made their feelings about him known. If he hadn't come across as gods gift to the Hakosuka then this wouldn't have happened in the first place. 

If everyone who knew the answer to a question that was asked on this forum, and responded like he did, this forum would end up like a ghost town. So when somebody gets snotty with people, they get flamed. :thumbsup:

It isn't just happening on this forum, it happens everywhere, cos people don't like being talked to in that manner. 

Would it happen face to face?

I very much doubt it, and if it did, you'd just dish out a slap :thumbsup:


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Boosted said:


> There was no shit till he started talking down to people, then some got the hump and made their feelings about him known. If he hadn't come across as gods gift to the Hakosuka then this wouldn't have happened in the first place.


The "shit" started when your pal 'Mick-skyline' made his first post, repeating an old wives' tale about it being _"difficult to get them out of Japan"_. He then followed that up by damning two threads which Moff linked to ( both of which I'd spent some time contributing to ), saying that they didn't tell him anything he didn't already know. How come you didn't tell him _he_ was being arrogant?

Then you show up with a car that can be had for _"£13,790 landed"_. Seeing as the title of the thread is asking about KPGC10s ( you know what they are _now_ don't you? ) that's got to be either some kind of wreck or a miracle. 

You didn't "share" the info about _that_ particular car here, did you? So here's a suggestion: How about you post the details of that car here now, and we can discuss it as an example of what to look out for? It would be interesting to see just what it is that _you_ recommended to Moff when he was asking about KPGC10s. 



Boosted said:


> Would it happen face to face?
> 
> I very much doubt it, and if it did, you'd just dish out a slap :thumbsup:


Yes, I very much doubt that 'Mick-skyline' would speak to me face-to-face in the way that he has on this thread. If he is the kind of person who would call me a "n*nse" face-to-face, I can't imagine that it would be even worth meeting him. As for you, I very much doubt you'd come across the same way face-to-face too. If you did _"dish out a slap"_, you do _know_ what would happen, don't you?

Both of you waded in to this without knowing the backstory going on behind it. I was giving Moff short shrift because I've _already_ tried to give him some help with the _same_ question. I mentioned to Moff that I had my tongue firmly in my cheek ( I think he's actually _not_ looking for a real KPGC10 at all..... ) but you and your pal didn't get it.

When did this forum become a repository for rogue data ( OK - don't answer that.... )? If someone had started a thread asking about R34 GT-Rs, and some bright spark had recommended an R34 GT-T wearing GT-R badges ( without noticing the big difference in price ) I think they'd probably get corrected with little sympathy. Why is this thread any different? All you're moaning about is the way in which it was being done, which you didn't understand the background to in the first place. I've got a hunch that you're making a big noise to cover up your embarrassment. 

You now seem to have descended to cutting and pasting pics that you appear to believe will "upset" somebody ( like we havn't seen them before ), and yet you _still_ don't know what they really are, do you? 

So, let's see this _"£13,790 landed"_ car and let's see if we can use it as an example.

Go on, "share" your recommendation. 






My thanks to Miguel and Bladerider for adding some common sense, balance and good judgement to this thread. It is much appreciated.


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

opcorn:


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

bladerider said:


> Yep.
> 
> Exactly when did this forum become a bear pit for people to lynch someone for not giving them every shred of information they craved ??
> 
> ...


Have to agree with good old Blady here,

and how come this thread has been unattended by my self anyway until now . . .????

Conclusions to this subject:

1) There are so few real Hakosuka GTRs out there and even if you will pay the last penny for one and think you bought the original dog, in 90% of the cases some nasty evil japanese garage owner (the one who patchworked your presumed original Hakosuka together from 100000 rusty Skyline parts), will be off to Hawaii with your money.
2) The original Hakosuka GTR is a car for the livingroom, a museum or the national treasory . . . . if you want KPGC10 looks and lots of fun, get a replica for 2.000.000Yen and be done with it. 1000HP RB26DET (T88GKed:chuckle: ) are also cool, but it`s a bit nasty to drive a hightech engine in a 60. chassis and no power steering . . lol

My personal opinion:

Want free high classified info from high respected indivduals . . just say please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, . . . . . .. X100000000000000000000

If you are such an individual: What the **** are you doing on car bash board number1?????????????


Regards
Chris


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

Boosted said:


>


Loving this orange one; I wish a KPGC10 like this had been available in the UK!


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Oh dear what a dismal mess. 

The only thing I will add is John never 'guarantees' a car anywhere - how can he it doesn't belong to him! The journo should know that. Every photoshoot I've ever taken part in (two in the last year alone) YOU are agreeing, and taking time out to turn up. It's out of the goodness of YOUR heart, and most people do it because they like their car to be featured. I suspect an over-enthusiastic editor who really, really wanted that car and tried to push it. Why don't you and John start again, as I'm sure the club would love a member with your obvious knowledge. 

Now guys I am not a fan of people rounding up and picking on someone with a different opinion or approach, so let's keep it civil, please.

Just to remind people what we should be talking about...
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/114285-classic-sports-car-magazine-kpgc10-hakosuka-gt-r-article.html


----------



## Bajie (Dec 13, 2001)

I pity the fool who does as much research as he/she can on the car in question then asks PS30 for a little help or pointers in the right direction.
He could quite justifiably tell them exactly where to get off.
The man has a lot of knowledge on the car in question and should be given a bit of respect for that. Especially considering he is still active on this thread even with all the foolishness within.
You aren't gonna kiss and make up but why not let the thread be saved. You never know, PS30 may just drop a snippet of info which Moff can use to further his education.


----------



## Mick-skyline (May 1, 2009)

PS30-SB said:


> The "shit" started when your pal 'Mick-skyline' made his first post, repeating an old wives' tale about it being _"difficult to get them out of Japan"_. He then followed that up by damning two threads which Moff linked to ( both of which I'd spent some time contributing to ), saying that they didn't tell him anything he didn't already know. How come you didn't tell him _he_ was being arrogant?


because all i was doing was trying to help and give some info that i have been told, to which you still havent done. even look at the rest of my posts.





PS30-SB said:


> Yes, I very much doubt that 'Mick-skyline' would speak to me face-to-face in the way that he has on this thread. If he is the kind of person who would call me a "n*nse" face-to-face, I can't imagine that it would be even worth meeting him. As for you, I very much doubt you'd come across the same way face-to-face too. If you did _"dish out a slap"_, you do _know_ what would happen, don't you?


well if you dont like people telling it like it is then maybe no, it wouldnt be worth meeting, as i have no problem telling people how i feel face to face, i for one am no keyboard hero, also where in this thread have i made any other comment about the difference in the models? nowhere because you cant get our head out of your ass to actually read any of the questions that have been put up.

so again like the others if you are not willing to enter information on a forum which you have then why bother joining in the first place???


----------



## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

see this...



---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've drawn a line.

As Toni and Bajie say, lets try to rescue this thread.

any more backwards and forwards bickering and i'll just lock it. PS30-SB has every right to share whatever information he wants, and whilst his approach may have got peoples backs up, i'm sure he has his reasons.

So, that line ^^^ up there. Thats it. Get back to the subject of these wonderful cars, what we know about them, and what the differences are, and if anyone chooses to pitch in with additional information, then thats great.

Mook


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

For interest, a KPGC10 at a mere £70K. 

S47Ç¯ ¥¹¥«¥¤¥é¥¤¥óGT-R¥Ï¥³¥¹¥«by¼ÖÁª¤Ó.com - ¸·ÁªÃæ¸Å¼Ö¥ª¡¼¥¯¥·¥ç¥ó - Yahoo!¥ª¡¼¥¯¥·¥ç¥ó

...and a KGC10 at just over £21K

http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r62461008


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Mick-skyline said:


> well if you dont like people telling it like it is then maybe no, it wouldnt be worth meeting, as i have no problem telling people how i feel face to face....


_"Telling it like it is"_ is exactly what *I* was doing. Seems you don't like it when it's not _you_ that's doing it.

But really, _what_ exactly do you expect me to post? You seem to have no grasp of the enormity of the general question being asked here. Once we got past the prices ( which have not changed since I gave Moff my thoughts on the same subject by PM before he started this thread ) it's really just a 'how long is a piece of string' question. Do you expect me to start posting body panel thicknesses, steering box ratios and the thread pitch for the two bolts that hold the clutch slave cylinder onto the bellhousing? It was hard enough to convince Moff to stump up and buy probably the _most useful_ book on the subject available today. What was _that_ all about? The fact is that there are NO in-depth books about these cars that have been written in the English language..... 

As I've stated before, I'm not convinced that Moff - or anybody else on the this forum come to that - actually _wants_ a genuine KPGC10 Skyline GT-R. As far as I can tell, he's not seen a real one in the metal, let alone driven one. That's probably not surprising if he hasn't been to Japan, as there are only three C10-series Skylines in the UK as far as I'm aware. Is he ready to own a 60s-tech car with a worm and peg steering box and drum brakes on the back FFS? The reality of the half-shagged 30-something year old driving experience is not necessarily going to match up with the positive thinking in his mind - especially if he's been watching the red & white 'R Factory' race car being driven by Kurosawa ( which is _nothing_ like a normal modified KPGC10, let alone a standard car ).

What I think Moff and most sane people would want - especially if they are going to import an old car to the UK - is a KGC10 GT or GT-X model with a great deal of modifications ( most of them performance-oriented ) and which may - or may not be - tarted up a bit by making it _look_ a little like a GT-R. As any such used car - even one to be used as a 'base' to work from - can only be talked about on a case-by-case basis, there's no real way that I can make a one-shot, cure-all, know-all post that covers everything you need to know. It just isn't possible. You can't do the subject justice.

Has anybody really _thought_ about the ramifications of bringing a genuine PGC10, KPGC10 or KPGC110 to the UK or Europe? You'd be investing a hefty sum of money in something that most people don't recognise, let alone look at with admiration ( cue the "it looks like a MK.I Escort" jibes, as even seen on this thread FFS! ). All well and good whilst you enjoy your own little backwater of automotive history, but when it comes to a time when you want to sell - or _have_ to sell - you'll soon find that you might have a hard time getting back anything like what you paid for it. 

It's interesting to gauge reactions when people see my car in the metal. One guy at Goodwood came up to it and told me that he was happy to see it there because it was his _"favourite car of all time"_ ( that's a BIG statement, isn't it? ), even though he'd never seen one in the metal before. I offered him the chance to sit in the driver's seat to get a little closer to it ( what else could I do? ) but he refused. How strange. I kind of got the feeling that he was a little disappointed. I was at a loss as to how to deal with him. The car was on static display, so I couldn't take him for a ride. Somehow I felt sorry for him. What else could I do? 

That's a little bit how I feel on this thread. How can I possibly hope to get across the _essence_ of these old cars on a thread like this? I'm not even convinced that the people professing to want one _really_ want one. 

If anybody is _really_ convinced that they want to buy a C10-series Skyline ( of any sort ) then they would be most welcome to have a personal look at my car. It's not a road car ( it's prepped to a period-correct race spec ) so we can't go for a drive unless it's at a track event, but at least they could get a feel for the size, shape and weight of it. Who knows, it might help one way or the other.


----------



## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

I was looking at one in Japan last year when I was over and it was 45K!

Is that the normal price now? The one I was looking at was at a specialist and real, white one as well. The exchange rates are simular as last June so perhaps the values are going up


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

I did have a good look round this beauty on the way to the Nismo festival in Japan last December...and did have a mad couple of weeks thinking I really wanted one!










Absolutely loved it, but one thing I do agree with is the reality of actually owning an old car like this isn't really like the dream you are having, LOL.


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

tonigmr2 said:


> For interest, a KPGC10 at a mere £70K.
> 
> S47Ç¯ ¥¹¥«¥¤¥é¥¤¥óGT-R¥Ï¥³¥¹¥«by¼ÖÁª¤Ó.com - ¸·ÁªÃæ¸Å¼Ö¥ª¡¼¥¯¥·¥ç¥ó - Yahoo!¥ª¡¼¥¯¥·¥ç¥ó


Toni,
Please don't take offence at this, but Red Megaphone are asking 12,380,952 JPY for that car, which is more in the region of £88k than £70k...



tonigmr2 said:


> ...and a KGC10 at just over £21K
> 
> ¥¹¥«¥¤¥é¥¤¥ó£Ì£²£¸£°£°£Ç£Ô¡Ý£Ò»ÅÍÍ¡Ê¥ì¥¹¥È¥¢¼Ö¡Ë£Ë£Ç£Ã£±£°²þ - Yahoo!¥ª¡¼¥¯¥·¥ç¥ó


This car seems good ( watch out for nasty surprises on the body condition and modified mechanicals though ) but I think it's already at a price that few people here in the UK would be willing to pay, and it hasn't attracted any bidders.

I'm afraid the prices for the _best_ cars are rising slightly, and this is dragging up the price of the middling to poor cars too. I'm being told that there's a little bit of an old car boom again in Japan, and there's not enough really good stuff to go around.


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

No offence at all, on the first one I just saw the 10mil yen tag it was starting on, not the finish price.:thumbsup:

I do kind of fancy the KGC10 cars but realise it would cost me a lot to keep going and in good condition - and yes would people pay that once it got here (one thing we haven't added to those auction costs are VAT and import duty!)


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

i for one would love a 10, and will own one as and when im in a position to. It'll never be a genuine gtr, as thats a good chunk of the mortgage spent on a car, but as close looking and feeling as i can get.

I remember reading a really long thread, i think on japanese nostalgic car where someone in Oz bought a KGC10 (not the real thing) and started to strip bits to check everything. From what i saw, its a bitch to get parts for a 40 year old car, but a few parts from the Z cars of the same period were the same.

I'll try find it again and post the link for you all


----------



## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks guys. A much more positive direction. :bowdown1:

Good point from P30, i've always in my heart, wanted a Lamorghini Countach, but whenever i see one in the flesh its just looks "old" inside. Likewise i love the E-type, but couldn't face owning an original example. Hence my love of the Eagle E-type, and to a similar extent, the Weismann. Old cars with new hearts

sometimes the romance hides the truth.

mook


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Well done Mook. 

Let's get on with discussing the beautiful cars these Hakosukas are now. Of those I've seen here in Japan, few are ever truly pristine although there was one time...

About 4 years back we were on our annual GTROC trip up to the Izu Skyline toll roads, I was in my AE86 and of course there were a bunch of 32-34 GT-R's, etc. We saw a lovely looking Hakosuka up on a hill and shortly after we drove past he came after us. We'd stopped at a rest area to have a break and he parked up. Was a lovingly restored GT-X model with some tuning work. Made our jaws drop. DCD was with us and if I remember correctly he made arrangements to meet with the owner and shoot the car a few days later.. Perhaps he has some pictures & the story somewhere he could share with us if he's reading this...


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

PS30-SB said:


> ...If anybody is _really_ convinced that they want to buy a C10-series Skyline ( of any sort ) then they would be most welcome to have a personal look at my car. ...


You can't say fairer than that; that's a great offer.

fwiw I don't want one at all, it's not my favourite car, and I know nothing about them.


----------



## Mick-skyline (May 1, 2009)

PS30-SB said:


> a 60s-tech car with a worm and peg steering box and drum brakes on the back
> 
> if they are going to import an old car to the UK - is a KGC10 GT or GT-X model with a great deal of modifications ( most of them performance-oriented ) and which may - or may not be - tarted up a bit by making it _look_ a little like a GT-R. As any such used car - even one to be used as a 'base' to work from - can only be talked about on a case-by-case basis, there's no real way that I can make a one-shot, cure-all, know-all post that covers everything you need to know. It just isn't possible. You can't do the subject justice.
> 
> ...


some of the above points could have been given earlier no??
thats the type of info that would help, along with answering some of the questions i have put up in previous posts too maybe. which you still seem to have not read!!

i would love to own a KPGC10, but i am not in a possition to buy one like many others, so for now it is only a dream, although id love to know more about them, in fact id love to know even half of what you claim to know in fairness.

i have also never seen one in the metal although i long for the day when i do. 

i can see that you are annoyed that the info you gave moff wasnt taken on board in the pm but does that mean you have to be annoyed at the rest of the world too when we have not seen the pm of the info you have shared with him??

i do apologise for my previous statement calling you a nonse but at the time it was how i seen you by your responses.


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

As in previous threads i've started i think its fair to say we all admire these cars for the stunning looks more than most things about them. They truly are a real beauty to the eye, sadly very few of us will ever own a real full blown KPGC10 GTR so the KGC10 seem the next best thing. 

I have been offered countless amounts of clones and sadly very few have hit the mark for me, I know Miguel has also looked for some time.

Being asked to find and import these isnt too hard, but realistically the potential owner will need to understand that they are buying a vintage car and that means WORK! Possibly lots of it to get it to the standards we Europeans have come to expect...............or pay the dollar and get a really well presented item (will still have problems).

As an enthusiast business I welcome enquiries for importing these to the UK but the above rules apply which deter most people. Buyer beware, just take a look at 40 yr old cortina, escort or any other classic car and you will understand just what your letting yourself in for.

There are loads, and loads of magazines available and you can subscribe to these in Japan, there are now some American publications that touch on the subject of these wonderful cars in the way of 'owners rides'.

15-20k may find you an average car with plenty of filler, old suspension, smokey engine, non working electricals and poorly painted KGC10. But it is a genuine enthusiasts car and you must understand this is the price you pay, but the rewards..............................well im sure you know what they are:thumbsup:


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

PS30-SB said:


> Then you show up with a car that can be had for _"£13,790 landed"_. Seeing as the title of the thread is asking about KPGC10s ( you know what they are _now_ don't you? ) that's got to be either some kind of wreck or a miracle.
> 
> You didn't "share" the info about _that_ particular car here, did you? So here's a suggestion: How about you post the details of that car here now, and we can discuss it as an example of what to look out for? It would be interesting to see just what it is that _you_ recommended to Moff when he was asking about KPGC10s.



It's simple.....................

the car is on a site run by a trader that doesn't support this forum. Out of respect for the rules of the forum, and the traders that pay to advertise on here, I chose not to give that company any free advertising!!

Do you have a problem with that?


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Boosted said:


> Do you have a problem with that?


Well, that'll save your blushes won't it?

At that price, it would have been good baseline data for what _not_ to buy. Either that or it was the bargain of the century.


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Yawn Yawn.

Moff, start another thread, hopefully there will be less [email protected] and more chat in the next one.


----------



## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

Oi!

THE LINE!

-----------------------------------------------------------


----------



## Bandit (Jul 2, 2004)

Well i for one value PS30's knowledge on these beasts. I have been torn between buying a KGC10 (hakosuka lookalike) and a 911 turbo for quite some time, im always searching japanese specialists and auction sites to see if one that isn't a ruffun comes up within my price range. Yet on the flipside of that im not sure i could live with a 40+ year old car and loose the creature comforts of the modern age we have become acustomed to, hense the 911.

PS30. I would love to have the chance to have a look at your hakosuka and to hear the sound of that awesome engine along with gaining valuable knowledge from someone that knows more than most people in the UK . If its making any outings this year give me a shout and i'll be there with cameras at the ready :thumbsup:


Steve


----------



## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

mmm


----------



## leegtr (Mar 11, 2003)

Well I have no knowledge of these cars at all other than the fact I like the look of the car (mind you thats how most people start)

Matty32, that is one of the best car pictures in general I have seen in a very long time, the car is fantastic and the view makes it stand out even more :smokin:


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Now that is some serious car!!


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Matty 

if that was for sale, how much would it cost?

I'm being curious, not after buying it


----------



## typerchris (May 8, 2007)

wow that pic is stunning.

i wonder if my 33gtr will be worth as much as these in 30 years time haha


----------



## godzilladom (Sep 3, 2009)

Boosted said:


>


I take it you all know that Orange one is a Mk1 Ford Escort????????????????


----------



## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

A truly iconic car & PS30 a very wise choice :smokin:

I must admit i would love to look seriously at one of these at some stage in the future but current pathetic exchange rates, shocking state of our economy etc don't even want to make me consider it seriously as of today.

The only nagging doubt for me would be if you went to the huge hassle of finding "the right one" would you then run scared of using it properly ie/ the odd trackday, the odd summer day blast on a decent country road etc?

As a static investment sitting polished in a garage then yep i understand it but i guess it's horses for courses - i woule be loathe to leave it sat there but would also dread bending it on a trackday (wouldn;t have to be your fault etc) 

A sensible clone with 90% of the looks, 90% of the presence with the same engine & 97.5% of the sound would probably do actually 
Saw a ground up restoration one with a 3.1 conversion for 1.8m yen the other day with mountains of build pictures.

Barring that a MK11 escort with a cossie conversion (I know i know heretic !!)


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Boosted said:


>





godzilladom said:


> I take it you all know that Orange one is a Mk1 Ford Escort????????????????




:chuckle:



Yes, it was for comedy value :thumbsup:


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

dean j said:


> I remember reading a really long thread, i think on japanese nostalgic car where someone in Oz bought a KGC10 (not the real thing) and started to strip bits to check everything.


Hey, that's me!  Here's the build thread, fellas: Japanese Nostalgic Car :: View topic - Project Hakosuka Build Thread









It's a bit of a long read, but then again it's a diary of my ownership of the car and its restoration for the past 2yrs. PS30-SB is a good mate of mine and has been an invaluable help over the years (so some of you lot should show some more respect!) 

My car's a GTR clone, and is road car. I use it for the school run and the commute to work a few times a week (in fact I'm in it today) and occasional trackday car, and these things really are such wonderful cars to drive.









Mine puts out about 250brake and goes like hell. In terms of trackday pace, you won't be beating any Lancer Evos or anything, but at the last one I attended, our times ended up mid-pack with some S15s and 350Zs, so it certainly isn't embarassed by modern cars and is reasonably fast. Here's a youtube:
YouTube - Wakefield 15 Aug 09 1st Run

I guess one of the freedoms of having a clone instead of the real thing, is that it's no harm to modify it, and just like any JDM tuner car, there are loads of gear you can buy to make them faster. There isn't anything you can buy from Trust/HKS/etc so the brands you need to track down are a bit different, but then again, that's part of the fun isn't it?

My car's an ongoing restoration, and like any 40yr old car, it never really ends, so you have to see this as a bit of a hobby, but if you like a bit of DIY, they are very rewarding cars to work on, and to be honest, the parts and know-how situation hasn't really been a big problem. There are a handful of american owners on the JNC forum, and a few aussie owners too (we even did a group buy recently) so you would definitely not be alone.

But I would echo everything that has been said here, in that there are good ones and bad ones and you really have to be careful to pick the right one. Yes, they are rather expensive, and I would agree that even at the 20 thousand pound mark, you are not getting a concours car, but what you would get should be a nice solid base on which to build on. Just make sure that what you're paying for is a clean body and not a pile of flash instead. (I can supply some horror stories if required) 

'Happy to help if any of you blokes have questions...


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Wow, you guys have been busy !!!



PS30-SB said:


> What I think Moff and most sane people would want - especially if they are going to import an old car to the UK - is a KGC10 GT or GT-X model with a great deal of modifications ( most of them performance-oriented ) and which may - or may not be - tarted up a bit by making it _look_ a little like a GT-R. As any such used car - even one to be used as a 'base' to work from - can only be talked about on a case-by-case basis, there's no real way that I can make a one-shot, cure-all, know-all post that covers everything you need to know. It just isn't possible. You can't do the subject justice.
> 
> Has anybody really _thought_ about the ramifications of bringing a genuine PGC10, KPGC10 or KPGC110 to the UK or Europe? You'd be investing a hefty sum of money in something that most people don't recognise, let alone look at with admiration ( cue the "it looks like a MK.I Escort" jibes, as even seen on this thread FFS! ). All well and good whilst you enjoy your own little backwater of automotive history, but when it comes to a time when you want to sell - or _have_ to sell - you'll soon find that you might have a hard time getting back anything like what you paid for it.


Spot on Chap 

We have now ascertained it would have to be a KGC10 I would buy, with the target date of it being in my Garage in August 2013 (I hope exchange rate has improved by then !!!)

When the book arrives, I will scan piccies and post differences of the different models, and see if I can get one of the Japanese guys to translate some of it


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

That C10 Complete Book is fantastic, it gives you a LOT of detail on what trims and badges come on what model, etc. 

But this one is good too, it's more along the content of the Hyper Rev magazines that you can get for modern JDM cars.


















So more of a focus on mods and aftermarket parts etc.









Also has a buyers-guide section at the back, with common rot spots, etc. Pretty good book to have on your shelf if you're contemplating buying one


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Looks like I will have to buy that too, can I get it from Amazon Japan too ?


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

Not sure mate, but it's G-Works KGC10 Vol.2. I think it's also published by San Ei Mook like that other one.


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

Babalouie said:


> Hey, that's me!  Here's the build thread, fellas: Japanese Nostalgic Car :: View topic - Project Hakosuka Build Thread...


Fantastic; cheers for the link


----------



## blitzman (Mar 14, 2006)

That book looks great.
Have to get mesell a copy.
Good link too,
cheers.:thumbsup:


----------



## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

First I´d like to say that I´m glad the thread is back on track.  And second, I´ve ordered some books from here:

Lindbergh Automotive Bookstore ***

I have no idea if I´ll get them but they seem to be legit. I read what Alan posted and got so interested in knowing more that I ordered 3 books.

Of course, I´m in the same position as most in this thread: I´d LOVE to have a KPGC10 but I simply can´t afford one. We´ll see if I can beat Moff to it and get a KGC10 before 2013. :chuckle:

/P


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

Babalouie. Good to finally say hi, and im glad your on the forum too!

I loved your JNC thread. Read every bit of it (with envy).

So how did you come across your car in the end? Was it sourced for you? Maybe a private seller on Yahoo? I'd be very interested to know how you went about sourcing it


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

ru' said:


> Fantastic; cheers for the link


Agreed, just taken me 20 mins to read page 1 ....

On to page 2


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Moff said:


> Agreed, just taken me 20 mins to read page 1 ....
> 
> On to page 2


LOL, took me about the same time, think there is something like another 60 + pages to go! Great link and helpfull to the people who want to learn. 


Ps is does that link go on to tell you the basic differences between the two cars? im still at a loss of the basic difference's. 

Like a gtr and a gts-t= one has 4 wheel drive, one has a 2.6 litre twin turbo engine etc


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

mattysupra said:


> Ps is does that link go on to tell you the basic differences between the two cars? im still at a loss of the basic difference's.


Well in a nutshell, in the C10 series, you have sedans, coupes and wagons. Engines are 4cyl (1.5L, 1.8L) and 6cyl (2L). The 4cyls have a shorter wheelbase/enginebay, and you can't retrofit a 6cyl in there later, so ignore those.

The model that you all want is a 6cyl coupe (which are called Hardtop). The models are 2000GT, 2000GT-X and 2000GT-R. 2000GT-R obviously we all want  but the price of entry as other have said is pretty high.

So if we're talking clones, then you are looking at a 2000GT or 2000GT-X. Here is what the 2000GT and GT-X look like:


















They are 2000cc 6cyl, SOHC, and the engine code is L20. So it's the same family of engines that went in pretty much everything Nissan in the 70s and early 80s. Power is 120hp for the GT (single carb) and 130hp for the GT-X (twin carb). Suspension is by struts up front, and semi-trailing arms out back. Brakes are unvented single piston disc and drum. Diff is an open R180, weight is about 1100kg. The chassis code is KGC10, K for coupe, G for 6cyl and C10 for...C10 

In comparison, the 2000GT-R has the 2000cc, DOHC 24valve S20 motor. You could say it's bespoke, and didn't come in anything other than a GTR, and puts out 160hp and does a standing qtr mile in 16s flat. Suspension is still struts/semi trailing arms, but with different springs and dampers, a rear swaybar (the cooking models have none), gearbox is 5spd, diff is a trick R192 alloy cased LSD and brakes are (I think...) identical. Mechanically there are lots more differences, incl a 100L (vs 45L) tank, but these are the main ones. Chassis code is KPGC10.

This is a stock GT-R. As you can see, the front flares and front bib spoiler actually aren't factory options, they're aftermarket. The rear wing is an official option though, but plenty of cars left the factory without them.









As for appearance and trim, there are heaps and heaps of differences, not least the rear flares, which require a 6in chunk to be cut out of the rear arches. Things like grille, badges tail light trims are also different, and there's lots of differences in the interior too, basically the GTR is very spartan, with no radio, heater or carpet (just bare vinyl), etc.

But getting back to the 2000GT and 2000GT-X that you will use as a base for a clone.....well to be honest I don't think it matters which one you get. The GT-X is the luxury version and whether you got a GT or GT-X, the stock motor will be hoiked out and thrown away anyway when you install your fire breathing L28 motor. And whatever differences in trim are ditched when you convert the grille, etc to GTR-look. The main remaining differences will be that the GT-X has power windows and optional aircon, so it's up to you as to whether these things are important (and whether they're still working!).



dean j said:


> So how did you come across your car in the end? Was it sourced for you? Maybe a private seller on Yahoo? I'd be very interested to know how you went about sourcing it


I bought my car from a broker in Japan, so basically the same blokes who import the modern JDM cars. 

The process is, once you express some interest, they start to send you examples to look at via email. In general, what they do is trawl the net and find dealer cars and fwd you the links. You can do most of this yourself on ’†ŒÃŽÔ‚È‚çGoo-net(ƒO�[ƒlƒbƒg)*’†ŒÃŽÔ�î•ñ*’†ŒÃŽÔŒŸ�õ, which is a database for dealer cars...generally, the brokers will only want to deal with the dealers rather than muck around with a private sale car, which is logistically more difficult. Although if you do find a broker who's willing to go look at private cars then you can quite possibly get a better deal.

Here's a tutorial on how to use it: Japanese Nostalgic Car – Blog » Blog Archive » Goo-Net! Hours of Fun for the Whole (JDM) Family Just do a search for Skyline, narrow the results to pre-1980 and you'll find dozens of Hakos up for sale. It'll give you a good idea as to market values.


----------



## slacker (Dec 10, 2007)

Babalouie said:


> Well in a nutshell, in the C10 series, you have sedans, coupes and wagons. Engines are 4cyl (1.5L, 1.8L) and 6cyl (2L). The 4cyls have a shorter wheelbase/enginebay, and you can't retrofit a 6cyl in there later, so ignore those.
> 
> The model that you all want is a 6cyl coupe (which are called Hardtop). The models are 2000GT, 2000GT-X and 2000GT-R. 2000GT-R obviously we all want  but the price of entry as other have said is pretty high.
> 
> ...


Perfect!:thumbsup:


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Babalouie


thanks for sharing the information, pics, and links. If this was done earlier in the thread then it wouldn't have gone the way it did, and thanks again for being polite about it too :thumbsup:


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

Boosted said:


> Babalouie
> 
> 
> thanks for sharing the information, pics, and links. If this was done earlier in the thread then it wouldn't have gone the way it did, and thanks again for being polite about it too :thumbsup:


Funnily enough, I've never been asked these questions before  Over at the JNC forum, where it's all about vintage JDM cars, all this guff is assumed knowledge :lol:


----------



## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Babalouie said:


> Funnily enough, I've never been asked these questions before  Over at the JNC forum, where it's all about vintage JDM cars, all this guff is assumed knowledge :lol:


LOL


----------



## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

I must get to bed - been reading your thread for the last 4 hours !!! upto your refurbed speakers on page 49 !!

 

Cheers,

J.


----------



## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

Top info Babalouie, cheers


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

Babalouie said:


> Funnily enough, I've never been asked these questions before  Over at the JNC forum, where it's all about vintage JDM cars, all this guff is assumed knowledge :lol:


LOL, you know . . . the senior members on here also know all these things, we just hide behind the servers . .lol

Thank you for your infinit input,which you contributed with only 10 posts to this forum . . . we are truly not worthy.:bowdown1:


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

ru' said:


> Top info Babalouie, cheers


Agreed, thank you very much 

Going to start on Page 4 of that mahoooosive thread over on JNC today...


----------



## Mick-skyline (May 1, 2009)

Babalouie thats superb work and infomation, thank you so very much, just shows that not all newbies know nothing  i will get around to reading your whole thread as i am extremely interested in not only your build but the whole skyline origination too. so thanks again for all your input.


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Babalouie, thanks very much for your input. That was just what i was after/hoping to read when i first looked at this thread.


----------



## dan-hipgrave (Nov 22, 2008)

Read that whole 60 page thread in just over 3 hours - I would love a Hako, but the replicas are just out of my reach price wise.

Looking on Goo Net there looks to be a few genuine KPGC10s for sale, and at todays exchange rates you'll pay £60k+, whereas it seems to be £13k+ for a replica.


----------



## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

Dan,

I dont think either of those rpices are indicative tbh.

I am beginning to wonder if babalouie used to own a bayside 34 that got imported to england   Not many will get that, but a few will  

j.


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

dan-hipgrave said:


> Looking on Goo Net there looks to be a few genuine KPGC10s for sale, and at todays exchange rates you'll pay £60k+, whereas it seems to be £13k+ for a replica.


There are always quite a few KPGC10s for sale at any given time.

Best one I ever saw was certainly this one:













































It was advertised for £105k, and recently sold. Definitely the nicest one I've ever seen, and the most expensive.


----------



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

OMG!


----------



## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

As a member of the uninformed perhaps someone could give me an idea why these cars are revered in Japan so much?

To my uneducated eye the car doesn't seem that exceptional. I think of the BNR32's release and it was clearly offering performance and technology only available to top end supercars (959, F40). Did the K/PGC have exceptional race results? Or is it more to do with it being the first GTR and having very limited numbers?

Is the later C110 as popular?

NB If the above sounds negative it certainly isn't supposed to! Just looking to understand a bit of history.


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

Cris said:


> As a member of the uninformed perhaps someone could give me an idea why these cars are revered in Japan so much?
> 
> To my uneducated eye the car doesn't seem that exceptional. I think of the BNR32's release and it was clearly offering performance and technology only available to top end supercars (959, F40). Did the K/PGC have exceptional race results? Or is it more to do with it being the first GTR and having very limited numbers?


Well on the racing front, the answers you seek are here:
Japanese Nostalgic Car – Blog » Blog Archive » The Skyline Supremacy: C10 GT-R Hakosuka

If you think of what was available in the late 60s/early 70s, the only JDM supercars were the Hako GTR and the Toyota 2000GT. Only 2200 GTRs were made, and only 300 Toyota GTs were made. That's it...2 models. And in 1973, the oil shock hit and there were no more JDM supercars for decades, until the late 80s.

So for all the classic car nuts in Japan, there are really only say, 1000 surviving classic JDM supercars to fight over. That's a tiny number compared to say how many US muscle cars that were made, or Astons or 911s or Ferraris.

It's really hard to put yourself in that era of Japan. I mean today, if you want a JDM supercar, there's RX7s, Supras, GTRs, NSXs, and going a bit further afield, lots of hot Scoobies and Lancer Evos. Add them all together, and you have maybe few hundred thousand individual cars to you can buy (new or old).

But back then, there was only 2000ish JDM supercars made, and that was it. For decades. 

Imagine if, in 1989, Nissan only made 2000 R32 GTRs, and then stopped. And there was no such thing as an NSX, Supra or FD etc. And in the 90s there were no 280ps cars at all, and only JDM economy cars on sale. What would an R32 GTR be worth today if that was the case? Bloody heaps, mate 

And as for performance, the Hako GTR does the qtr mile in 16 flat, which is nothing exceptional today. But that would have been pretty level with what a 2L 911 or a Ferrari Dino would have done. And the Hako was a sedan....in the late 60s there was really no such thing as a sports sedan. And back in those days, Japan was still a recovering economy, and most ppl drove little kei-type cars (if they had a car at all). So a locally-made supercar (by the performance standards of the day) would have made more of a splash in those days, than the R32 GTR did in 1989.

So its position in japanese car culture is quite unique.



Cris said:


> Is the later C110 as popular?


Sort of.

When the oil shock hit in 1973, Japan, like now, responded by going all "green" (yuck) and so Nissan pulled the pin on the C110 GTR after only 200 were made. The touring car class that the Hako raced in was canned, and so the C110 GTR didn't have an opportunity to strut its stuff. In fact Skylines wouldn't have a sedan-based production car class to race in until Group A in the early 80s, so it was going to be a long time between drinks....

But...the C110 GTR is very desireable because it was the last of the breed, and because it's super rare. So a C110 GTR is worth no less than a Hako GTR in the same condition (maybe worth a bit more actually...). And so a C110 GT-R clone is also worth quite a lot too, about the same as a Hako GTR clone in the same condition.

Where it deviates a little, is that there was no C110 GTR sedan (all the GTRs were coupes in that shape). So a hotted-up C110 sedan is just a hotted up old sedan, and doesn't have the "GTR clone" appeal, and so they tend to worth less than say a Hako sedan done up in GTR regalia.


----------



## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Cheers! That helps.

I guess my problem is/was I was thinking that the car was along the same lines as a Lotus Cortina et al. But I guess that the market for a four cylinder sporty car like an S600/800 is very different to a 6+ cylinder car.

As you say it really must be seen as the initiator of the new breed. I've heard how much 2000GTs go for (and they are stunning cars) so I can see where you're coming from.

Thanks again. Got to say this has made me have a quick google of Datsun 120Ys and SR20s...


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

Cris said:


> Cheers! That helps.
> 
> I guess my problem is/was I was thinking that the car was along the same lines as a Lotus Cortina et al. But I guess that the market for a four cylinder sporty car like an S600/800 is very different to a 6+ cylinder car.


Yeah I'd say that's fair....the Lotus Fords were made in much larger numbers, and were not as technologically advanced as the Hako GTR. The KPGC10 had 4valves per cylinder (I don't think any other cars, including the italian supercars had that in those days), twin cams, CDI electronic ignition, 5 speeds, lsd...I mean you'd have to try real hard to think of another car (in any market) with the same features in its time.


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Cris said:


> To my uneducated eye the car doesn't seem that exceptional. I think of the BNR32's release and it was clearly offering performance and technology only available to top end supercars (959, F40). Did the K/PGC have exceptional race results? Or is it more to do with it being the first GTR and having very limited numbers?


Cris,
Yes, the PGC10 and KPGC10 _did_ have an exceptional run of success in Japanese touring car racing from 1969 to 1973. They dominated their class with little or no answer from their competitors, racking up an unprecedented 46 _consecutive_ wins ( they were on course for 47 until a bad race with crashes and mech. failures ) and finally ended up with 52 wins. It was only when the works team had pretty much given up on further development that Mazda's works team caught up with them.

Nissan made much of this success in their sales promotion and advertising for the whole C10 Skyline range. The GT-R models gave a trickle-down of glamour to the GT and GT-X models that the average guy could afford. The GT-R models were relatively rare and expensive, and I guess a lot of guys who couldn't afford one at the time are now scratching the itch. I know quite a lot of early GT-R owners who are in the 50+ age bracket.

As for the car not being all that exceptional, I'd argue the opposite. You only have to compare them to other 'hot' saloons / homologation specials of the same period to see that they actually _were_ quite exotic in specification; A 24-valve twin-cam straight six ( with DNA from the Porsche-beating GR8 engine ) with triple side-draught carbs, hand-built stainless six-branch ex. manifold and electronic ignition was quite a fancy piece of equipment for _any_ car in 1969, let alone a boxy Japanese saloon car. The chassis was relatively sophisticated too. Semi-trailing arms on the rear were the kind of thing you might expect to see on an expensive German or Italian saloon of the period, and the whole package was really quite impressive.

I think they compare well with the likes of a BMW CSL, Lotus Cortina or Mk.I Escort RS1600 ( and look at the prices _they_ are fetching now ) and for the Japanese it's a bit of an automotive icon. They are being seen as relatively good investments too.

I think the prices of GT and GT-X models ( and I'm incuding the four-doors in this too ) are being dragged up by the image of the GT-R models - hence all the GT-R 'lookalikes' - but they are good cars on their own merit. The SOHC L6 engine is a _great_ engine, with an immense amount of history of its own and a host of tuning equipment and know-how available for it. The L20A/L24/L26/L28 engines share many parts, and are easy to work on. You can make an L-series engined C10 very fast indeed.

C110-series GT-Rs are the rarest of the early GT-R models, with just shy of 200 built. They were never raced by the works team in-period so they don't have any race history to speak of. However, because of their rarity they quite often beat C10-series GT-Rs in the prices they achieve. 

Of course, the prices we see now are really just a Japan-only phenomenon. With the C10-series hardly having been exported at all in period, there are only a few outside Japan and most of those are recent arrivals. Therefore it's very hard to judge what they would change hands for on the open market outside Japan. If I was in a position where I needed to sell my KPGC10, it seems likely that the best thing to do would be to sell it back to Japan. I can't imagine anyone over here would pay anything like what it should fetch in Japan, as there just isn't any in-depth knowledge or appreciation of the model over here.


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Babalouie / Kev,
You beat me to it.....


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

Hehe...


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Agree with everything you wrote, except you didn't mention the 'PS30' Fairlady Z432 model.

Also fitted with the GT-R's S20 twin cam ( Nissan described the 432 as "a Z with the heart of a GT-R" ) and with less than 500 made, they are fetching huge prices today.

Even rarer, the super-lightweight 'PS30-SB' Fairlady Z432-R model: A completely different bodyshell construction ( steel panels a gauge lighter than the standard 432 ), lightweight FRP panels, plexiglass windows, lightweight FRP buckets seats, and a whole host of 'delete' options. In all respects you could compare it to the likes of a Porsche 911R. Less than 25 made, and now fetching _stratospheric_ prices for a Z. Much more than any C10 or C110-series GT-R, but almost never on the open market. One of my dream cars......


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

Ah yes, the z432, I'd love one of those.


----------



## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

I got the books and BOY is there a lot of versions of these cars... If anyone is REALLY interested in the differences I´d recommend the book on the right:











BTW, some good info in this thread now! Keep it up, guys! 

/P


----------



## Mick-skyline (May 1, 2009)

Perra said:


> BTW, some good info in this thread now! Keep it up, guys!
> 
> /P



completely agree, maybe its time a mod came in a deleted all the crap thats useless in here now :thumbsup:


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Mick-skyline said:


> completely agree, maybe its time a mod came in a deleted all the crap thats useless in here now :thumbsup:


Good idea 

I don't think I have ever started such a popular thread


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Perra said:


> If anyone is REALLY interested in the differences I´d recommend the book on the right:


That's the book I recommended at the beginning of the thread....


----------



## xanavi1 (Sep 5, 2008)

not exactly what your probably looking for but one on PistonHeads
Nissan : KGC110 72 Nissan Skyline GT

$15,000
USA


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

xanavi1 said:


> not exactly what your probably looking for but one on PistonHeads
> Nissan : KGC110 72 Nissan Skyline GT
> 
> $15,000
> USA


That's _this_ car, I think:

HybridZ

Vendor 'Racer98' is a member of the GTROC forum too.

Looks fairly daggy to me.


----------



## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

PS30-SB said:


> That's the book I recommended at the beginning of the thread....


I know Alan. I just wanted to tell people in another way that you know what you´re talking about.  

/P


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

Just for interest's sake, here's a clone right at the top of the market:
http://www.victory50.com/usedcar/usedcar010.html

Scroll about 2/3s the way down to the silver coupe. Y6.5mil, and it looks pretty mint, with lots of expensive gear. Not least the 100L stainless tank (Y220,000), the replica wide racing mirror (that's Y71,000...yes for the interior mirror), 3.1L stroker, Weber 50 carbs, also if you look at the rear arches, it looks like the GTR-flare conversion was done with factory GTR panels for a factory finish (usually it's a bit home-made looking under there because it's out of sight)....pillowball front tension rods, extended cast sump and diff (no idea where you get those from...), vintage fixed back seats, rear sway bar conversion...the more I look at it, the more it seems it's got absolutely every possible box ticked  Whoever owned that car spent a serious amount of coin on it, it's got all the most expensive mods and all the bodywork looks top notch.

...the price reflects that tho.


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Loads of really great detail pics on there


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

My Skyline book has been shipped...


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

We'll have you driving one of these things in no time


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

C10 SKYLINE COMPLETE BOOK Shipping,$5.00!! - eBay Media, Cars, Trucks, Clothing, Merchandise, Media, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 28-Mar-10 03:45:56 AEDST)

If any of you blokes are still after that C10 Complete Book, one just popped up on Ebay


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

G-WORKS SKYLINE KGC10,GC10,KPGC10,PGC10 : eBay Motors (item 180464609183 end time Mar-04-10 07:59:53 PST)

Ah...same seller has that other book I was talking about too....


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

Could i be so rude and ask you how much you paid for yours Babalouie? PM if you like. I'd just like to know what you see as a good price for a solid car is. I'd sell my car tomorrow if i could afford one of these and store it in a garage.

The video of you on track i see was brilliant mate


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

It was Y2.7mil, mate. But as you probably know by now, it still needed a fair bit of work  But yeah, I think we have to look at it as being just a decent base to build on...

I reckon a lot of the premium that you pay with the above-averagely priced examples is for flash, eg nice wheels, and stance, etc. Appearance and street cred seems to go a long way to making up for what was a pretty hopeless restoration. You do see a lot of cars exactly like this in Japan, the underlying car's a bit rough, but it's been given some shiny paint, a slammed stance, new wheels and maybe some things like seats and steering wheel. And with that, it's rolled out onto the dealership floor with a big sticker on it.

Not all cars are like this of course, but a lot are.


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

The book has arrived 

Neat piece of kit... Will get scanning when I get a chance


----------



## xs10shl (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm late to the party as I almost never get the opportunity to frequent this site, but I can throw in my 2 cents worth of experience. I've myself recently become interested in learning about Japanese automotive history, partly because there seemed to be a fair number of significant Japanese cars that no one outside of Japan had ever really heard of. 

I started looking in 2008 for a KPGC10, and it took me about a year to acclimatize myself to the seemingly enormous cultural barrier that exists between Japan and the outside world. I first attempted to buy a car through a good friend of mine who is a British broker, but he had limited contacts in Japan, and we were both frustrated in our attempts to generate any sort of rapport with Japanese sellers. A second attempt by way of a US-born broker who spoke Japanese yielded only marginally better results. It was at this time where I was also told "Japanese nationals will not want to sell their cars to foreigners". As it turns out, they'll happily sell to foreigners - thanks to the strong Yen right now, some have asked for payment in USD.

It was only after I met a Japanese-born individual who lived in the US when I finally got access to some nice inventory. At first I thought that perhaps this was the key - using a native speaker to get into the "back room". But I now feel that this was merely a short cut which certainly sped up the process, but a path I probably did not have to take. I now feel that I should have spent more time researching the cars prior to purchase. I luckily ended up with the car I was looking for, but I will admit that had I spent more time reading up on the cars, I would probably have found just as nice an example for about 20% less money eventually. 

This is going to sound "preachy", but I'll say it anyways: if you read up on the cars (and by "read-up", I mean "spend a lot of time running Japanese web sites through an online translator") you'll be in a much better position to not overspend on the wrong car. When you've finished your homework, you'll find it much easier to discern why one car is only 2,500,000 yen (a clone, perhaps) and another is over 12,000,000 (authentic no-stories restoration). My own goal was to find a real no-stories KPGC10 which needed nothing. That turned out to be a tall order, because many of the cars I came across are tub or engine swaps, don't carry the proper documentation, have undocumented ownership history, have registration lapses, are rust buckets, or 100 miles away from having the engine blow up. 

After a year of searching, I can count on one hand the number of English-speaking Hako experts I've found outside of Japan, which speaks to my original point about the total mystery these cars are to most enthusiasts. I'm sure I'll meet more of them as I branch out, but as far as "knowledge in English" goes, it's pretty slim picking out there. If you manage to find and buy a GT-R or clone (and I hope you do, because they are fantastic cars!), it's entirely likely you'll be the only guy in town who knows what it is, which will make you the resident "expert". Good luck and happy hunting!


----------



## firefighter81 (Apr 9, 2004)

I've never seen a KPGC10 sell for 2,500,000. I think the cheapest I've ever seen a real one was in the 8,000,000 yen neighborhood.

Now KGC10's (non-GTR's) can go for that price.

I actually hunted around for a KGC10 for a while before giving up on getting a decent deal (even living in Japan) and went for a R32 GT-R.


----------



## xs10shl (Jan 9, 2010)

firefighter81 said:


> I've never seen a KPGC10 sell for 2,500,000. I think the cheapest I've ever seen a real one was in the 8,000,000 yen neighborhood.


No argument there - I edited my original post for clarity.


----------



## firefighter81 (Apr 9, 2004)

I wanted one, very badly. Was actually going to build a high comp NA RB25 for it. Not a ton of horsepower, but fits the N/A heritage but would run much smoother than an L series. Would also make very decent horsepower with a good build.

But, the examples I found in my price range were in fairly poor condition, or 4 doors, and I didn't want the sedan.


----------



## xs10shl (Jan 9, 2010)

I personally kind of dig the sedan. It was quite the successful racer in the day. 

After sleeping on it I should probably also point out that I feel a well executed clone can be a really fun car to own. In many ways it's an easier car to live with, because it's value is not tied up in it's originality. 

Just as an aside, from what I've been told, putting in a more powerful engine does necessitate some body strengthening. I forget exactly where this was supposed to be done.


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Here is one for sale....

Very Very Rare Skline LGC10 GTX Coupe For Sale (1971) on Car And Classic UK

Yikes its a lot !


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Riddled with the 'usual' mistakes....

What's being described as an _"LGC10"_ is actually a *KGC10*, and all the mentions of _"KPGC110"_ actually mean 'KPGC10' ( the C110-series was the 'Ken & Mary' shape that followed this C10-series 'Hakosuka' ).

_"PMSC style rear spoiler"_ must mean 'P.M.C.S' - even though *P*rince *M*otorist *C*lub *S*port never made spoilers..... 

I'll eat my hat if this car is currently in Yorkshire, too. Just another 'agent' chancer?


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

Wow....pricey!


----------



## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

cross referencing the phone number finds this place


The Green Car Co.Ltd

29, Fyfe Crescent, Baildon, Shipley, West Yorkshire BD17 6DR

* Tel: 07961 741758

* Map & Directions

Categories: Car Dealers - Used
Map & Directions... about The Green Car Co.Ltd () 

who's linked to this place

Motor House Of Shipley - Shipley - West Yorkshire | Quality Used Prestige Sports and Performance Cars, Welcome


----------



## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

and it appears that address is a house..


----------



## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

Low CO2 Fuel Efficient Congestion Charge Exempt Vehicles - Home

erm, i think that other link was a typo, lol

mook


----------



## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

looking at his current and previous stock it looks like he probably doesn't have the car.... similar to the scottish guy who rips everyone off using rhd's ad's....perhaps..


----------



## typerchris (May 8, 2007)

cleethorpes said:


> looking at his current and previous stock it looks like he probably doesn't have the car.... similar to the scottish guy who rips everyone off using rhd's ad's....perhaps..


It does look like he has some impressive stuff but how could he be compared with someone who rips people off


----------



## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

What link where you looking at? He has only had a total of about 4 or 5 
cars


----------



## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

And my point is I agree with others who feel he is simply advertising something that might not be in his possesion.. For a silly price


----------



## typerchris (May 8, 2007)

haha i looked at the first link the second seems to have completley different stock.


----------



## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

I don't think the first link was correct at all. Lol


----------



## typerchris (May 8, 2007)

Mook said:


> I don't think the first link was correct at all. Lol


Some pretty special cars in there though


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Moff said:


> Here is one for sale....
> 
> Very Very Rare Skline LGC10 GTX Coupe For Sale (1971) on Car And Classic UK
> 
> Yikes its a lot !





PS30-SB said:


> Riddled with the 'usual' mistakes....
> 
> What's being described as an _"LGC10"_ is actually a *KGC10*, and all the mentions of _"KPGC110"_ actually mean 'KPGC10' ( the C110-series was the 'Ken & Mary' shape that followed this C10-series 'Hakosuka' ).
> 
> ...


Yup, appears it is in Japan. Cheaper price here for the same car

HAKOSUKA VINTAGE JDM Nissan Skyline KGC10 GT-X Modified | 1971 KGC10 GT-R Style HAKOSUKA VINTAGE SKYLINE


----------



## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

just another chancer...


----------



## GTRCharie (Nov 18, 2010)

I spoke to this company a while ago as they advertised a similar car that was subsequently sold to a UK buyer

When you speak with them they do actually tell you that the car is in Japan and the price includes export costs, insurance, freight charges, registration etc aas they have an agreement with the supplier

It's expensive but you have a lot of security built in, so ultimately it's worth it.

Unless you want to travel accross the globe and do it yourself of course!


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

'Green Car Co.' clearly had absolutely _no_ idea what they were talking about in respect to this car. The mistakes in their description of the car bear witness to that fact.

So what kind of "security" does that promise?




"GTRCharie", are you missing an 'L' from your user name by any chance? I think you might find it in 'Green Car Co's' description of that car as an "*L*GC10" ( sic )......


----------



## GTRCharie (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi mate, no my user name is how it should be lol (a piss take as my Jap mate can't pronounce his L's properly)

When I spoke with them a few months back they we're very professional, had all of the relevant information to hand, and the things they didn't know/weren't sure of, they went away and came back to me with

They faxed over copies of build and services along with chassis plates etc 

Maybe they just aren't as anal as some people on here lol

I'm sure if some of the information isn't 100% on an advert then they would clarify it for you if you spoke with them. That's if of course you could afford one in the first place


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

"GTRCharie" = 'Green Car Co.' 

AICMFP


----------



## GTRCharie (Nov 18, 2010)

I need change mate out of the fiver


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Why? Five Pounds is the right money.


----------



## GTRCharie (Nov 18, 2010)

Lol

Doesn't matter


----------



## agent-x (Jul 26, 2008)

Moff said:


> The book has arrived
> 
> Neat piece of kit... Will get scanning when I get a chance


It's coming upto a year have you done the scans yet? 

I really am considering buying one instead of a 34 GTR


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Blimey, I don't even know where the book is now 

I will find it


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

agent-x said:


> It's coming upto a year have you done the scans yet?
> 
> I really am considering buying one instead of a 34 GTR


drop us a pm if your looking for one. We have sourced a few now:thumbsup:


----------



## Hakosukajd (May 3, 2010)

Honestly, if you want something to drive for fun, they are great cars (the KGC10's that is). 

Particularly for many on these boards who do a lot their own work....you can find a decent model (requiring some body work) for around 1.5M to 1.7M Yen.

When cleaned up and restored "properly", something rarely done to KGC10s in Japan, they actually fetch a fair bit of coin. 

With a clean metal chassis with good paint, some upgrades to wiring, drop in a worked engine ie:

L28 w/ 5speed with Mikuni's (and/or build up to a 3.1L stroker) or N/A RB25/6

I've seen them go for 4-5M Yen. 

Of course if you have the time and cash, you could by a beat down KPGC for 6M Yen, spend years finding all the correct pieces, and work it back to the 10-12M range, but you wouldn't want to drive it. These things flash rust like freshly ground steel.....

They are light, noisy and fun. I can pull the tranny by myself in less than an hour....the engine and tranny in less than 2. In fact, last car show I put it in, I pulled the engine, cleaned it and the bay, fresh spray and had it back in the next morning. Easy peasy.


----------



## Hakosukajd (May 3, 2010)

By the way PS-30, have you had any issues with a cracked windshield or needed replacement? 
If so, where did you source the glass? Tried to have one shipped from Japan and they failed miserably in the packing department....kind of a pisser really since I paid 700 US for the glass and another 800 for the shipping...


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Hakosukajd said:


> By the way PS-30, have you had any issues with a cracked windshield or needed replacement?


Nope, I've not needed one yet. If yours cracked due to body twist then you probably need to beef the 'shell up a bit.

Sourcing and shipping a new windscreen shouldn't be a problem really ( although they are a bit pricey, especially the clear, untinted screens for the GT-Rs ) and if they didn't pack it well enough to survive normal shipping then you have been let down by the human element in all this. They should take responsibility for not packing it adequately.



Has anyone seen any freshky imported C10 Skylines in the UK recently? There was a guy on Pistonheads who said he had imported one in March this year and was driving it already, but when asked to elaborate he clams up. It would be nice if there were a few more here, but I'm not sure if this Pistonheads guy is telling the truth or not. Time will tell....


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Davew says he's imported several, so perhaps he can divulge further? 

We were close to importing one Alan, but the customer's opted for my AE86 instead... (Dare I say it, a better choice as a driver's car )
RK has a customer wanting one, but he doesn't (yet ) have the required budget for a good KGC10.

There's so rarely any good ones sale at any given time in Japan, I think without proper inspection before purchase to buy one by any other method that experienced up-close scrutiny would be a be risky proposition at the very least.


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

PS30-SB said:


> Sourcing and shipping a new windscreen shouldn't be a problem really ( although they are a bit pricey, especially the clear, untinted screens for the GT-Rs ) and if they didn't pack it well enough to survive normal shipping then you have been let down by the human element in all this. They should take responsibility for not packing it adequately.


Are the GT-R screens the same thickness as the cooking versions, Alan?

I was wondering about this, because the GT-R screen seals seem to be quite pricey, and I was wondering if they might be for a bespoke glass thickness.


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Miguel - Newera said:


> Davew says he's imported several, so perhaps he can divulge further?


Hi Miguel,
I saw that too, but I think Dave is probably talking about having imported a few _books_ rather than cars......:chuckle: 


I visited my friend up in Nagano prefecture last week, and we went to collect some parts from his storage warehouse together. Several good PGC10s and KPGC10s in storage there, as well as a whole flock of GC10s and KGC10s. None of them 'for sale', so I know what you mean.

I still think there's a bit of a gap between what a 'good' one costs, and what UK based buyers seem to be prepared to pay. 

I'm sure he'll be very happy with your 86. Yes, probably a better driver's car all things considered. From a different era too of course. 

Cheers,
Alan T.


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Babalouie said:


> Are the GT-R screens the same thickness as the cooking versions, Alan?


I was told that there _were_ thinner ( clear ) screens for the PGC10 and KPGC10 in period, but that they were Works items. As far as I'm aware, the stock KPGC10 front screen is the same thickness as the ( tinted ) screens in the KGC10 models, but don't take that as gospel. I can't imagine the difference being all that much, anyway? 

Early GT-R-specific parts have that extra 'GT-R Tax' on top too, of course.....!


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

PS30-SB said:


> I'm sure he'll be very happy with your 86. Yes, probably a better driver's car all things considered. From a different era too of course.


An AE86 (or MX5) are better, more rounded driver's cars.

But there is a certain something about a KGC10 with an angry L-series. Just the sound is enough to win you over, and you can't argue with 280+hp and three litres in a 1080kg package.

I would consider my Hako to be somewhat more fun than my AE86 or MX5 were, and am in no hurry to swap :chuckle:


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Personally speaking, I can see a time when I might not own my KPGC10 any more ( it's a bit of a responsibility to own it... ) but I can't imagine being without an S30-series Z car of some description.

I've got four of the things at the moment and probably should lose a few, but I'll always have _one_. Love the L-gata engine, and the mechanicals are so simple that they are a dream to work on. Nice drivers' car once they are set up properly, but I'm more into period-correct _flavour_ than out and out performance these days.

Interesting how the early Z crowd in the UK seems to be in a bit of a bubble of its own sometimes, and really nice S30-series Z cars are comparatively thin on the ground in the UK.


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

PS30-SB said:


> Hi Miguel,
> I saw that too, but I think Dave is probably talking about having imported a few _books_ rather than cars......:chuckle:
> 
> 
> ...


LOL, I'd never considered books as importing a few, but there we go... :smokin:

I think you're right Alan, few people in the UK will understand what a truly good one will usually fetch in Japan when for sale, so the chances of a really good one coming in are probably slim at best. The best ones probably change hands off the radar when they are on the market, I expect. 

Sometimes I wonder if I wouldn't have been better off buying a Hakosuka 8 years ago and modifying that, but then again I wanted to go drifting and the '86 was the logical choice, a Hakosuka certainly wouldn't have been.

I still remember chasing a very well sorted 240Z with a 3.1 around Tsukuba that was doing 1.02's & 1.03's - in my RX-7. It was an amazing car, but probably cost an even more amazing amount to build to such spec. 
An insane amount, most likely - to most!


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

I guess there are responsibilities that come with owning masterpieces like your KPGC10 Alan and no doubt expensive upkeep too. No doubt you wouldn't have too much difficulty selling it, but I wouldn't fancy being in your shoes at decision making time...


----------



## Hakosukajd (May 3, 2010)

PS30-SB said:


> Nope, I've not needed one yet. If yours cracked due to body twist then you probably need to beef the 'shell up a bit.
> 
> Sourcing and shipping a new windscreen shouldn't be a problem really ( although they are a bit pricey, especially the clear, untinted screens for the GT-Rs ) and if they didn't pack it well enough to survive normal shipping then you have been let down by the human element in all this. They should take responsibility for not packing it adequately.
> 
> ...


No issues with my body....when the car was being loaded into the container to be shipped, the glass was stuck on the edge and it spidered. Shipping company paid for the damage and I've received a refund from the glass I had shipped...but don't want to go through the hassle again with that particular vendor because the way they packed it was farking ridiculous (and it was a pain in the rear just to get them to ship it to begin with because "they've never shipped internationally before and didn't know how")


----------



## Hakosukajd (May 3, 2010)

PS30-SB said:


> I was told that there _were_ thinner ( clear ) screens for the PGC10 and KPGC10 in period, but that they were Works items. As far as I'm aware, the stock KPGC10 front screen is the same thickness as the ( tinted ) screens in the KGC10 models, but don't take that as gospel. I can't imagine the difference being all that much, anyway?
> 
> Early GT-R-specific parts have that extra 'GT-R Tax' on top too, of course.....!


You know, in talking with the guys to buy my windsheild (or screen as you all like to call it), I was told by the vendor that the clear glass was only offered in GT-R spec, which is different than GT-X. It is supposedely the reason why the GT-X converts you see with "GTR glass" never have the metal flashing around the windscreen seal. Thus it is the easiest way to tell a GT-R from a GT-X when it is sitting on the street.....
I liked the clear glass look and so was willing to forgo the flashing....although I could probably custom it up and have a real go at it....


----------



## YokoAE86 (May 23, 2007)

PS30-SB said:


> Interesting how the early Z crowd in the UK seems to be in a bit of a bubble of its own sometimes, and really nice S30-series Z cars are comparatively thin on the ground in the UK.


So few S30 on the market these days. I think the best bet would be to import them from sunny California, although that is not a guarantee that they are rust free. Also can import from Japan, but with the exchange rate, it looks expensive to buy from there compared to say 6 years ago.


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

S30 are basically the same price as Hako in Japan, so buying local would probably be a lot cheaper.


----------



## xs10shl (Jan 9, 2010)

Being from California I can assure people that even here, there is no such thing as a rust-free s30. But, there are many that come up for sale in the $7-14k range that are pretty darn close. Compared to what I've seen for sale elsewhere, they might as well be considered rust-free. Trouble is always in the same spots, and most buyers and sellers alike don't realize they rust from the inside-out, which tends to lead to cars being misrepresented.


----------



## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Hold thread reserection... !

Well, Its my 35th Birthday... I didn't manage to afford a KPGC-10 !
I ended up buying myself a nice Series 3 R33 GT-R to enjoy...


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Change the goal to 40 Moff.


----------



## GTR-NUTTER (Jul 9, 2002)

what in GBP is the going rate for r's and non r's. just a query really to see if/when i could afford one..

K


----------



## XashskylineX (Jun 25, 2013)

GTR-NUTTER said:


> what in GBP is the going rate for r's and non r's. just a query really to see if/when i could afford one..
> 
> K




Me too!!!!!!!

Are these Rare ????


Can they still be bought ???


----------



## dA_RoB (Dec 21, 2012)

A import guy from Germany offered an KPGC10 and the price would have been around 110k***8364; incl. Of shipping, taxes, customs bla bla! I will try and find the announce!


----------



## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

Moff said:


> Hold thread reserection... !
> 
> Well, Its my 35th Birthday... I didn't manage to afford a KPGC-10 !
> I ended up buying myself a nice Series 3 R33 GT-R to enjoy...





Perra said:


> We´ll see if I can beat Moff to it and get a KGC10 before 2013. :chuckle:


It seems I almost won.  I bought a Hako, but not a KGC10 and not before 2013. It´s a HGLC10 and I bought it 3 weeks ago. Now, you´re all asking what a HGLC10 is and I can understand that. It´s the sedan model that was sold in some countries in Europe. So, it´s LHD and it´s only covered 9920km from 1972!  :bowdown1: :clap: The car was not called Skyline in Europe. The name was Nissan 2400GT. It´s got a L24 under the bonnet.

I´ve been looking for a coupé for the last 6-8 years, but not found the right one at the right time. This summer we went to Portugal on holiday and that´s where I found this car. After viewing it, I decided I had to buy it.  Now, you´re all asking yourself what it looks like, so here are a few pics.


































Couldn´t be much happier right now!


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

WELL DONE! It's a rare, rare bird and something you can cherish. Congratulations. :clap:

Funnily enough, the HGLC10 has period European race heritage. They were the only C10s to be raced seriously in Europe and its an interesting story. Might be something that you would take an interest in.

Once again, WELL DONE! :bowdown1:


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Lovely chap!


----------



## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Perra said:


> The car was not called Skyline in Europe. The name was Nissan 2400GT. It´s got a L24 under the bonnet.


How come the dash has a 'skyline' badge on the far right hand side?? It looks like its supposed to be there and not some afterthought add-on.....just curious.

Nice car BTW :thumbsup:

TT


----------



## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

PS30-SB said:


> WELL DONE! It's a rare, rare bird and something you can cherish. Congratulations. :clap:
> 
> Funnily enough, the HGLC10 has period European race heritage. They were the only C10s to be raced seriously in Europe and its an interesting story. Might be something that you would take an interest in.
> 
> Once again, WELL DONE! :bowdown1:


Thanks a lot Alan! It means a lot coming from you! I´m VERY interested in hearing more about the racing. Please send me some info on my email.



tonigmr2 said:


> Lovely chap!


Thanks Toni! 



tarmac terror said:


> How come the dash has a 'skyline' badge on the far right hand side?? It looks like its supposed to be there and not some afterthought add-on.....just curious.
> 
> Nice car BTW :thumbsup:
> 
> TT


I´ve got some info that other HGLC10´s have a Nissan badge there so I don´t know if mine have been replaced. Normally the RHD Hakos have the Skyline badge there so it´s not any mods done to the dash.

Thanks!


----------



## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

??????GT-R 2000 ???????S20(??)?????? | ????????????net?


----------



## HakosukaGTR (Sep 19, 2012)

Congratulations again Perr :thumbsup:. I was baffled when I read on FB you found one in Portugal. The 2400GT is a beautiful car and I know you will take good care of it. 

As for me I'm still doing a lot of research... I would like to hop on a plane to Japan but I really need to meticulously plan a trip like that to gain as much information, visit as many dealers/shops/owners in the time I have overthere. 

I've found a pretty cool book though! Hope to receive it soon. I will share more pictures (these are the auction pictures)


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

time to bump up some lovely old school threads...................... and awaken you know who LOL!


----------



## Perra (Jan 6, 2002)

HakosukaGTR said:


> Congratulations again Perr :thumbsup:. I was baffled when I read on FB you found one in Portugal. The 2400GT is a beautiful car and I know you will take good care of it.
> 
> As for me I'm still doing a lot of research... I would like to hop on a plane to Japan but I really need to meticulously plan a trip like that to gain as much information, visit as many dealers/shops/owners in the time I have overthere.


Thanks! I´ve totally missed this thread but Dave´s post made me look at the previous ones. 

BTW, the name is Perra, not Perr.


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

its been a turbulent time for our american friends who have imported a few kgc10 models only to find them full of filler and rot. I really count myself lucky with what I got.


----------



## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Why the resurrection of threads regarding C-series cars.....??

Am I missing something???



TT


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

tarmac terror said:


> Am I missing something???


It's called subliminal advertising. 

Somebody's selling something...


----------



## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

davew said:


> its been a turbulent time for our american friends who have imported a few kgc10 models only to find them full of filler and rot. I really count myself lucky with what I got.


Unfortunately the recent surge of popularity of the car in more mainstream circles has also fueled less honest / lazy people to do quick fixes and list them at high prices, which some people end up taking at face value as being well sorted out cars.

A few ive seen in person where you can clearly see the filler, and point it out to the seller, who shrug and say 'take it or leave it, someone will buy it' supply and demand sadly.

There are a few gems out there tho...just a matter of finding them and hoping they are willing to sell them!


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

PS30-SB said:


> It's called subliminal advertising.
> 
> Somebody's selling something...


tsk tsk:chuckle:


----------

