# What is the "crunch" noise changing from 2nd to 3rd gear



## maxzugkraft (Feb 25, 2008)

I've got my 2009 from new, as daily driver & doing 2-3 track days a year.
Has done 53,000kms now, with Custom Cobb tune, LC5, HKS mid pipe and Willall Lite Trans fluid. Has been a beautiful car to drive.
Clutch relearned. CC= +1, TP= -1.
Started noticing a "groan" noise ("oarkk") about 1 month after I changed to the Willall Fluid. Only happens between 2nd and 3rd gear. Intermittent usually, when car is cold.
But, today it happened when fully hot in a roundabout going "clockwise", whilst accelerating moderately hard. 
It sounded like gears clashing ("crunch") when changing gears inaccurately in a manual stick shift. Tried to reproduce it but couldn't. This is the 2nd time it has happened when lateral G force is associated. ?coincidence?

Anyone experience this? My feeling is that the "groan" noise has progressed to the "crunch" noise.
Car still drives normally, and out of warranty.
Is this serious? Thank you all in advance.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

maxzugkraft said:


> I've got my 2009 from new, as daily driver & doing 2-3 track days a year.
> Has done 53,000kms now, with Custom Cobb tune, LC5, HKS mid pipe and Willall Lite Trans fluid. Has been a beautiful car to drive.
> Clutch relearned. CC= +1, TP= -1.
> Started noticing a "groan" noise ("oarkk") about 1 month after I changed to the Willall Fluid. Only happens between 2nd and 3rd gear. Intermittent usually, when car is cold.
> ...


It is not uncommon and it caused by slight clutch slip that takes place during the upshift and normally (from my experience) between 2nd to 3rd at moderate revs, normally only when cold but can happen when hot as well at moderate to high RPM part throttle shifting.

It is worth have a clutch learn done anytime the tranny oil it changed particularly with Willall lite (a great oil BTW, but a little heavy for our current temp range in the UK) as the additive are different to OEM and they can present a different "feel" for the clutches as well as the way then grab the plates. Not sure on the crunch noise, I would near to hear it for a better idea.


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

if you really listen hard 4th to 5th will also make the same noise (not so much though)
The oil viscosity will require a clutch learn, make sure you set at 0.0.0.0 before then try again 
Baulk rings can also make a errk sound, but as you have changed the oil to willall
i agree with Arcam 
kk


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## ASIF (Jan 14, 2008)

I have my09 with 22k miles,when cold 2-3 change similar sound 

Using the oem oil


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Mines always done it when cold, on OEM and Pentosin ffl 4.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Try doing a clutch re-learn on it again after getting transmission temp rite up


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## maxzugkraft (Feb 25, 2008)

Thanks for all your input. I was initially quite worried that I'm the only one hearing this thing. Question is: why is it only 2nd to 3rd, and not other gears?

One of the greatest thing about this forum is that you guys are full of experience and so forthcoming with opinions and advice.

I'll try the relearn again at 0,0,0,0 when fully hot.


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

Then try backing torques off * odd gears* to -1 *after relearn* 
let me know

another sure way of stopping noise is a slight lift off when changing 

kk


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

I've got a different, and new problem.
In manual mode, I can go up and down the box without issue. Smooth and drama free.
However, in auto mode, slowing gently, 4 to 3 has an associated clunk. And 2 to 1 also has a distinct notch to it. It feels to me like the clutches are not totally ready for the change, when it happens.
This has only become apparent since fannying around with the TCM software. I'm running Cobb stage 2 and LC5, but I've also tried other TCMs, and also returned to standard, with no luck. Clutch relearning carried out til I really hate this damn thing. 

Anyone else experiencing this sort of reduction in trans sophistication?


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## maxzugkraft (Feb 25, 2008)

Good point Kev.
But wouldn't reducing the torque to -1 cause clutch slip and wear?
Especially when I've got a custom tune?
Cheers.


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

maxzugkraft said:


> Good point Kev.
> But wouldn't reducing the torque to -1 cause clutch slip and wear?
> Especially when I've got a custom tune?
> Cheers.


just give it a try, any question of slip then ,as you say, you wont be able to 
many times you can get away with circa 1 "backed off)
but as been said the main thing is a GOOD clutch learn, *temp up and @ 0,0,0,0* (bad learns are when guys clutch learn over settings !!)
then have a play , there is a little DIY testing hear, set touch point (that's the bite point either -1, 0 or 1 then adjust capacity/Torques! keep trying after your learn, 9/10times you can, if not get rid of, at least reduce the errk 

I always run as low numbers as poss, saves wear and tear on your box 
All the best 
Once the Power is too much ,Upgrade your clutch, rather than keep increasing capacities! kk


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2010)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> I've got a different, and new problem.
> In manual mode, I can go up and down the box without issue. Smooth and drama free.
> However, in auto mode, slowing gently, 4 to 3 has an associated clunk. And 2 to 1 also has a distinct notch to it. It feels to me like the clutches are not totally ready for the change, when it happens.
> This has only become apparent since fannying around with the TCM software. I'm running Cobb stage 2 and LC5, but I've also tried other TCMs, and also returned to standard, with no luck. Clutch relearning carried out til I really hate this damn thing.
> ...


Again a good clutch learn, up too temp and most important set 0.0.0.0 before re -learn!
IMO go back to LC4 lC5 tends to "hold onto the gears) and does not suit everyone, just because LC5 is latter does not mean best!in all cases imo

Then in your case reduce touch point! (by 1 ) there again after LC4 and then your clutch learn you will of improved your issue, 
As i said in my last reply, back off your numbers, run as low as you can get away with! (However do not go mad ) and run -7 Lol tweaking down by one 
normally does the trick and dont forget re-install LC4 before any adjustments you may find 0000 is good now 
Nearly forgot .... before any of the above warm car, set at 0.0.0.0 then 
install etc etc  I should be on £60 per hr lol


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## maxzugkraft (Feb 25, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> just give it a try, any question of slip then ,as you say, you wont be able to
> many times you can get away with circa 1 "backed off)
> but as been said the main thing is a GOOD clutch learn, *temp up and @ 0,0,0,0* (bad learns are when guys clutch learn over settings !!)
> then have a play , there is a little DIY testing hear, set touch point (that's the bite point either -1, 0 or 1 then adjust capacity/Torques! keep trying after your learn, 9/10times you can, if not get rid of, at least reduce the errk
> ...


Thanks Kev. Appreciate your time and advice.
Will give it a go and let u know.


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