# Clutch learns ?



## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

Sorry if this comes across as thick but I'm new to owning a gtr and have noticed on several threads the words clutch Learn
Can someone enlighten me as to what they are for and why they are done please
Have searched a few forums but still not sure what it does 
On another note how much does it cost for a clutch learn if it's needed
Thanks


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Clutch learn basically tells the car to go off and recalibrate the clutches, it runs through a sequence of engaging gears etc and is designed to make the gearbox run a bit smoother, obviously things wear and move etc so just a simple recalibration is needed at times 

It's free if you have or know someone with an ecutek cable, not sure what it's gonna cost at a stealers


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Clutch relearn is a process instigated inside the transmission by either the NIssan Consult III dealer equipment or a Cobb Accessport or Ecutek aftermarket tuning kit.

It involves the transmission learning the pressures required to move components as well as the point at which the clutch frictions touch. 

The reason for being able to do a relearn is that over time the components of the transmission wear and parameters such as the thickness of the clutch plates changes.


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

Thank you both much appreciated 
So really speaking if its been done by the people who have serviced the car it would be on the invoice
Seems to be ok at the minute but sometimes when I reverse off the drive it takes a couple of seconds longer than I would have thought to engage 1st gear but this only happens when it's cold if I leave the car running a couple of minutes don't get an issue 
Suppose best to wait till next service and ask them to do it for me 
Thanks again at least I know what it's for now


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## Daytona99 (Apr 16, 2016)

What's the service history/mileage of the car? Might help diagnose it a bit better........


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

46000 miles serviced at Severn valley last next one due in March 2017
Got good history with it
2009 plate black edition


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## snuffy (Mar 26, 2014)

I think main dealers will most likely only do it when the book says so but the specialists tend to do when whenever they service it.

After you have reversed off your drive, does it flash a few times before going into 1st ?


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

Haven't noticed it flashing just seems to take a while before engaging 1st to pull away
Only when cold though it's fine when it's ticked over for a bit 
I will have a look next time I go out see if anything flashes


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## snuffy (Mar 26, 2014)

That's good. If the gear number flashes before it selects 1st it means it's struggling to go into gear.

I'm not an expert but maybe new gearbox oil might be in order ? For example, I used to have an Aston Martin and it was a known problem that when cold gear changes were harder but once warmed up it was fine.


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

Hope that's all it needs 
Although only done couple thousand miles since last service
I will have to check last time gearbox oil was done 
Thanks for the advice again much appreciated


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

Just took it out for a quick test 
Reversed off drive stopped selected auto 
Gear 1 came up in the display then flashed twice then steady 
Drove a couple of miles stopped put it in revers and gave it a bit of pedal too quickly I think kuz R started flashing and wouldn't select reverse 
Had to put in park then back to reverse 
Then it was ok 
Put it in auto from reverse and visa versa several times and no issues although does clunk a bit but I don't know if this is normal or not 
Will do again tomorrow and see if it's the same


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

1st Reverse selection issues can be down to:

- dirty selector solenoids which can be quickly cleaned by dropping the valve body. any specialist can do this for you.
- or a more serious selector fork issue which can lead to a fractured fork. Harder to check 

I'd have a specialist do number one and see how it behaves.


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

The symptoms are exactly the same as I had, reluctant to go from reverse to 1st when cold but fine when warm. This is due to wear on the shift fork shaft and is quite a common problem and it will get worse. AC Speedtech can resolve this by fitting new hardened shafts and changing the bearings in the shift forks.


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## snuffy (Mar 26, 2014)

The clunking is fine, but the flashing might be a problem. You may get the odd flash every so often, which is normal but not if it's happening frequently.

You may want to get it looked at. I have to admit I just it ignored it (and it actually went away for quite a while), then 6 months ago I reversed off my drive, in to 1st, flash, flash, flash, then it went into 2nd. Then no more 1st, 3rd, 5th or reverse. It was a fractured fork (and I'd only done 20k miles).

I know that sounds worrying but better to know now and have it looked at before something breaks.


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

Yes you are right especially as gearbox and engine under warranty for next 6 months lol
Better it cost them than me 
Tried it again just now and everything fine gone call last service place to,oh and find out if it had a clutch learn or not 
Seems a bit slow to pull off when I come to a stop and then start off again if it's had one might get it checked out in next few weeks

Thank you all for your valued input might just be me fretting that somethings not quite right but best to be sure I think


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Where abouts are you? There's tons of people on her with ecutek cables that could quickly do a relearn for you....


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## Phoebus (Nov 30, 2016)

D4rlg said:


> Just took it out for a quick test
> Reversed off drive stopped selected auto
> Gear 1 came up in the display then flashed twice then steady
> Drove a couple of miles stopped put it in revers and gave it a bit of pedal too quickly I think kuz R started flashing and wouldn't select reverse
> ...


Be warned, life story coming :bawling:

I hate to tell you this but I'm going to anyway because if you do what I did, you may face so many more problems in the future. Also, the fact that you still have a warranty could save you £'thousands. I'm not exaggerating.

I bought my GTR MY10 about 8 months ago. It was first registered in '11. It had 60K miles on it, bought for £38K. It was only the second car I've ever owned and like a complete prat, I didn't do my homework. I just wanted one badly and rushed the purchase, probably paying too much for it given the mileage. It had a full service history, at Nissan and Litchfield and looked like it had been well maintained.

It was a stock car when I bought it, other than a Miltek Y pipe.

When I first picked it up, the reverse gear selection was quite clunky and would sometimes flash for a split second. It was such a short flash I didn't even notice it. Not having done my homework, I didn't realise that the clunking / judder was abnormal.

I took it to a specialist for a full points warranty check and service. A few bits and bobs later and I couldn't have been happier.

A few months go by and the flashing when selecting reverse was getting worse. It got bad enough that once it had selected reverse it would then struggle to select 1st gear, sometimes completely skipping to 2nd.

I took it back to the specialist who couldn't duplicate the error (they genuinely tried). The problem was intermittent. I drive it home. A month later, I'm doing a 3 point turn on a busy street and the car goes in to limp mode (won't go out of second gear or drive above 20mph). Transmission and engine management warning lights come on and the car is shouting "Man down!" at me (lots of beeps). Imagine getting out of your car in the middle of the road and pushing it out of traffic! Not a great look. Not a great moment in my life.

The specialist puts it on the back of a carrier and off it goes for a month and a half to be repaired. Before limp mode happened, I'd spent £'s on a full Akrvpovic EVO exhaust system plus Litchfield Stage 4 upgrade, Litchfield steering wheel and carbon paddles. You can imagine how it felt to have sunk all that cash in to a car that is starting to look like a pig with lipstick on it. Before limp mode the problem was impossible to replicate and impossible to diagnose as the gear flashing was intermittent and never happened when I took it in for inspection.

As of today, it's flashing now and then when selecting 1st and lurches on high acceleration because it's struggling to select gears quickly enough. Hard breaking and down shifts often produces a clunk and pause when selecting down in to 2nd. This is after the following work was done on it:

* Full valve body rebuild;
* Gear box stripped and rebuilt;
* Selector rings were already MY11 so no problem there;
* Gear selector shaft replacement (2nd/4th/5th) - had big gashes / grooves on it;
* Circlip clamp kit;
* Shaft fork bearing replacement;
* Solenoid 3 replacement;
* Solenoid 4 replacement;
* 4WD clutch shim replacement;
* Output shaft and end float shim replaced;
* Clutch A and B basket replacements;
* lots of labour investigating, replacing smaller parts etc.

I was 2 weeks away from being out of my 6 month's warranty. If it hadn't been for the trade seller having to pay for a lot of the above and the specialist being _really_ good to me, I would have been out of pocket to the tune of 6-10K on parts and labour.

Keep in mind, it still hasn't been possible to fully fix the car. The specialist has never known a car like it before. It's going back to the specialist some time in the new year. If you're wondering why I keep saying 'the specialist' rather than naming the company, it's because they've been amazing and really gone the extra mile to look after me and I don't want to give the impression that they're not doing a good job when I say it's still not fixed. They're not magicians and it takes time to identify whacky faults with cars like this. 

The reason for listing all this crap? In short, if you still have a warranty on your car, get it to a specialist now, get them to inspect the solenoids, selector rings, selector shafts and the valve body ASAP. If you leave it and you're unlucky, you'll be looking at a serious arse ache out of warranty.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Hard luck there Phoebus, but on the other other hand you were lucky to get the trade seller to pay for the work after having put a stage 4 on the car, normally that would void a seller's warranty, obviously.


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

*Thanks for your input*

I have been in touch without dealer and am in the process of sorting it out 
I will be adding to this thread when all is sorted out and am happy
Hopefully within the next couple of weeks
I would be interested in finding out where you have taken your car m8
Theyseem to have been comprehansive in their efforts to get your gearbox working correctly but as with a lot of specialists they are working on a suck it and see basis changing worn parts that may or may not be the problem 
Trial and error seems to be the way forward 
Keep trying and if it doesn't work try again 
I am hoping that my issue is more straight forward
I will know in a couple of weeks and will post on here my findings


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## Phoebus (Nov 30, 2016)

Yeah, fortunately the problems had already surfaced before the stage 4 was done on the car. I'd taken a video of the dashboard whilst it was flashing, which was date stamped.


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## Phoebus (Nov 30, 2016)

D4rlg said:


> I have been in touch without dealer and am in the process of sorting it out
> I will be adding to this thread when all is sorted out and am happy
> Hopefully within the next couple of weeks
> I would be interested in finding out where you have taken your car m8
> ...


I'll PM you the place I took it.


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## Phoebus (Nov 30, 2016)

D4rlg said:


> I would be interested in finding out where you have taken your car m8
> Theyseem to have been comprehansive in their efforts to get your gearbox working correctly ...


Yeah, they have been very good. It seems as I'm a newbie on the forum I can't send 'visitor' messages yet. Add me as a friend and I'll give you their details.


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

Done m8


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## wd1506 (Dec 30, 2015)

just to throw a spanner in the works, my car did not have a problem, it was due a service so i booked it in. as it was the first service due since i had owned the car i had the full works, plugs all oils and filters mot and general health check £1100. ever since i too have had the 1st and reverse flashing syndrome when cold, i complained and the car went back only to be told the clutch had been adjusted and if it still did it, a new clutch would be required. the car at the time had done 13000miles never seen a track and never launched. wtf. :chairshot:lamer:


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## Phoebus (Nov 30, 2016)

wd1506 said:


> just to throw a spanner in the works, my car did not have a problem, it was due a service so i booked it in. as it was the first service due since i had owned the car i had the full works, plugs all oils and filters mot and general health check £1100. ever since i too have had the 1st and reverse flashing syndrome when cold, i complained and the car went back only to be told the clutch had been adjusted and if it still did it, a new clutch would be required. the car at the time had done 13000miles never seen a track and never launched. wtf.


Wow! That really doesn't sound right. Is that Nissan telling you it needs a new clutch? What year is your car?

I'm no expert but no-one I've spoken to ever suggests a new clutch. Usually it's selector rings, stuck valve body, solenoid etc. 

Did they say what was wrong with the clutch?


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

Yeah prob Nissan as they wont open the gearbox
If anything wrong then it's straightforward replacement or nothing


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## wd1506 (Dec 30, 2015)

it was not a main agent but a well known specialist, the car is a 09 thats had a pampered life, only ever used in summer and left with the specialist under cover the rest of the year. that was untill i got it now its a daily driver and stands out in all weathers.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

D4rlg said:


> Yeah prob Nissan as they wont open the gearbox
> If anything wrong then it's straightforward replacement or nothing


Yeah, my previous GT-R was 6 months old when it developed a tiny weep from the gearbox gasket/join, but instead of splitting and resealing it Nissan shipped across a new box at a cost of around 21k.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

wd1506 said:


> just to throw a spanner in the works, my car did not have a problem, it was due a service so i booked it in. as it was the first service due since i had owned the car i had the full works, plugs all oils and filters mot and general health check £1100. ever since i too have had the 1st and reverse flashing syndrome when cold, i complained and the car went back only to be told the clutch had been adjusted and if it still did it, a new clutch would be required. the car at the time had done 13000miles never seen a track and never launched. wtf. :chairshot:lamer:


Which garage told you that this problem is sorted with a new clutch?!?! Muppets.

The abject lack of understanding of how the GR6 works is very revealing.....


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## wd1506 (Dec 30, 2015)

charles charlie said:


> Which garage told you that this problem is sorted with a new clutch?!?! Muppets.
> 
> The abject lack of understanding of how the GR6 works is very revealing.....


this is no little garage, they are major players in the gtr world. maybe there name is best kept to myself at the moment as i dont think this is finished yet.:lamer:


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

wd1506 said:


> this is no little garage, they are major players in the gtr world. maybe there name is best kept to myself at the moment as i dont think this is finished yet.:lamer:


Deeply troubling....


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## D4rlg (Nov 5, 2016)

Well lads came to the conclusion today that the only way forward for me was to return the car to the dealer and get my money back
After researching on here and talking to several gtr specialists I have decided that the gearbox issues that seem to be encountered week in and week out at these specialists just are not worth the hassle 
Well not for me anyway 
Great car great speed and handling 
Crap gearbox 
Such a shame that my dream car has turned out to be a waking nightmare 
Gonna get an m3 and not have to worry about reversing off me drive and not getting 1st gear 
I will continue to save until I can afford a much newer gtr with a better gearbox and a bulletproof warranty 
Gutted gutted gutted


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## Phoebus (Nov 30, 2016)

D4rlg said:


> Well lads came to the conclusion today that the only way forward for me was to return the car to the dealer and get my money back
> After researching on here and talking to several gtr specialists I have decided that the gearbox issues that seem to be encountered week in and week out at these specialists just are not worth the hassle
> Well not for me anyway
> Great car great speed and handling
> ...


Ouch! I can't say as I blame you. Buying these cars really does seem like a game of Russian Roulette if you buy an older model. I know some people who have an '09 car and have never had any transmission problems at all and they even on the old rings! I've seen one YouTube Vlogger take his on Modball, including launching it, and he's had no problems at all. Yet take you and I and if you're unlucky it can be a real ball ache.

Am I guessing right when I say I bet the trade dealer you bought it from put a cap on the total he'd pay towards getting it fixed, otherwise he wanted it back? That's what mine said in the end. Before you do send it back, it might be worth having it looked at under warranty with someone like Litchfield. You never know, it might just be a clogged up Solenoid. If it is, you're only talking a few hundred plus labour costs, rather than thousands.

Anyway, best of luck mate.


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