# R32 GTR misfire



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Hi all,

I'm new here, after owning a drift spec 200sx I had a change of heart and wanted to go for grip.

Picked up my skyline a few weeks ago and trying to sort a few small issues before I get it on the road.

I've searched around but am yet to fix it.

It is a very small misfire and can only really be heard when you're stood next to the exhaust. Only other time it's noticeable is when you out your foot down, get to about 6.5k-7k rpm it will misfire once, maybe twice then carry on pulling.

I've cleaned the Afm's and re-soldered the joins, didn't make a difference.

The spark plugs look new, and I cleaned up the coil packs and put dielectric grease on them, I am yet to test the spark as I need to get a sheet of ali.

Going from front to back the spark plugs are:
1- white powdery 
2- white powdery 
3-clean 
4- clean 
5- white powdery 
6-White powdery

Is that how it should be or is something wrong ?

There's an earth wire cable tied to the intake pipe ?? Did take a picture but I have to have 15 posts to put it up :/

What do I try next ?

Cheers
Liam


----------



## Fish91 (Jul 15, 2014)

Same choice I made, went from a 380bhp Ca'ed s13 sold it all off and bought myself a r32gtr. 

Correct me if i'm wrong but white tends to indicate you're running too lean. What boost are you running? I can pop the pic up if you wana email it to me?


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

I miss my 14a, but haven't driven the 32 properly yet :/

Lean is not enough fuel ? What would cause that ?
It's completely big standard, no mods what so ever.

Yea that would be great, what's your email address?

Cheers


----------



## Fish91 (Jul 15, 2014)

This wire is just an engine earth strap that is grounded out on your chassis.


----------



## David (Apr 25, 2003)

Gap the plugs to 0.8mm and retest it.


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

How old are your coil packs? Maybe they slowly go bad internaly. 
I had splitfires or 6 years after they gave up on mine Rb26 and i had bad missfire at about 5k.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks for the replies so far, if weathers good and I finish work early enough I will gap the plugs and test the coilpacks resistance.


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Just to make it easier for you.  










For Rb26 resistance is the same - 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_By0_FtFTtkI/TS0h46bbHUI/AAAAAAAAAHg/AO6wcTJF0jk/s1600/zcoilpack+test.jpg


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Also my dead splitfires all ware between 1.0 ohms up to 1.3 ohms. So if you are reading more then 0.9 ohms, there could be your problem. Dont forget that some measuring devices read different readings, they have internal resistance.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Using a crappy draper multi meter, tested coilpacks, they all came back at 0.9.

Tried testing the power resistor on the same setting it didn't seem to work, jus stayed on 1.
Am I doing something wrong ? 
On the ohms part of the multi meter there are 4 options: 
200
2000
20k
200k
2000k

I had it on 200 when testing coilpacks and power resistor.

Cheers


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

I think i messed at 200. If you got out 0.9 ohms, then you mesured correctly.

Rember that your crappy multimeter can show +-0.1 to 0.2 ohms. So it can be as low as 0.7 ohms or 1.1 ohms.  

Also, i think hot coilpacks and cold coilpacks should mesure different readings, because resistance in hot wire will be higher? But someone need to confirm this. 

If they are 0.9 ohms, they can still brake spark at higher engine temperatures, that is my opinion. 

How looks your coilpack loom? If it is old, than can also be your problem.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

I think my next thing to do is get a better multi meter and re test, any suggestions ?

Loom visually looked fine, bit dirty but not brittle, checked the wire's I could see without removing the sheathing and they look fine.
I did not I've that both plugs that go into the power resistor, the clip that holds the plug on is broken, but can't see that affecting it ??


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

I had exactly the same issue at around 6500rpm misfire ... I changed lambda, afm, spark plugs the usual and none worked turned out to be stock fuel pump failing


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Am yet to try that, how did you work out it was that ? Any way of testing?

Did you just replace it (with stock item) or wire it directly to the battery ?

Cheers


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

When the engines running give the earth wire a wiggle that's bolted to the ignition amplifier mine was badly frayed


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

But similar to your issue I explained my symptoms and fuel pump was mentioned and it was the only thing that I hadn't changed


----------



## Fish91 (Jul 15, 2014)

DazGTR said:


> But similar to your issue I explained my symptoms and fuel pump was mentioned and it was the only thing that I hadn't changed


+1 had this problem on my impreza first was misfire, followed by bad detonation at full chat and shortly after the pump packed up. Could explain white plugs...


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Fish91 said:


> +1 had this problem on my impreza first was misfire, followed by bad detonation at full chat and shortly after the pump packed up. Could explain white plugs...



I'm betting it's the pump


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Thanks for the advice, is there anyway of testing the fuel pump ? Or do I just replace it ?


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Liam_thornton said:


> Thanks for the advice, is there anyway of testing the fuel pump ? Or do I just replace it ?



Tbh it cost me £55 for a 255lph walbro and it's easy to do in the 32 they also do a 400lph pump costs about £100


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

I have a 255 walbro from my 200sx I broke for parts, is it just the same way of fitting as my 200 ?


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Pretty much yeah as they're universal pumps you will need to possibly replace the rubber pipe that connects to the pump from the sender unit as that's likely to be bit crusty now


----------



## Fish91 (Jul 15, 2014)

Liam_thornton said:


> I have a 255 walbro from my 200sx I broke for parts, is it just the same way of fitting as my 200 ?


The pump in the r32 is mounted in the tank and not on the cage as you'd find on the 200sx. But the same principle.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Ok cheers, I'll pull it out and I'm sure I'll manage to get the walbro fitted 

Will have a go tommorrow and report back


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Next time, if you can, post spark plug pictures.  White tips not always mean that car is running lean. Need to see how white they are. 

I have had a failing stock pressure regulator, can also be an issue. 

http://www.ek9.org/index.php?attachments/spark-plug-reading-jpg.18643

How did your spark plugs look?


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Right, after 2 hours in the rain the fuel pump is changed. If anything the misfire has got worse, and now the fuel gauge doesn't work ***55357;***56849;

Gunna put the standard fuel pump back in tommorrow.

Will take spark plugs out and take pics at some point.


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Something don't sound right there it should not take 2 hours to change the fuel pump in the 32 are you sure everything's connected correctly ? Also what heat range are your plugs atm ?


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

It was raining and dark so took longer than it should have, had to cut and solder the wires as the walbro didn't have ring terminals, it had a plug. 
It's a lot smaller than the standard pump so had to 'bodge' the earth clamp bit round the pump itself.
Is it possible to put the + & - the wrong way around but the pump still work ?
I know the pump works as it came out of working car.

Not sure will take them out tommorrow and update this thread.

I'm debating just buying new coilpacks and and brand new loom, is there a uk suplier for both ?
Thanks


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Don't go blowing money on stuff you may not need what heat range are your plugs ? 
Only reason I ask is when I fitted my pump I still had a miss fire so I checked the plugs and they were NGK 8 which are way too cold for stage 1 mods so I changed to NGK 7 and miss fire went


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

The wiring is easy the walbro plug has red and black wires you just match these up to the red and black on the oe plug


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

I'm not sure what heat range as they came in it when I bought it. I will take them out tommorrow and let you know.

Yea I thought as much, the pump worked was just checking haha.

I did notice when putting the coilpacks back in, one of the loom plugs (cylinder 3 or 4) the inside of the plug (the spade part) the plastic was split so the spade connected was loose.
I wobbled the plug around and made no difference. Un plugged it while it was running and he misfire got a lot worse so assuming it's fine ?


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

I suggest you start with new plugs(I have ~500hp and i use BCPR7ES NGK plugs) then test. 
If problem still there, try new coil pack loom, test. 
If problem still there coil packs or coil pack ampl.

Do you have possibility to read ECU fault codes? 
I suggest you do that. If you have missfire problem i think you should see code 21. 

I still think its plugs or coil packs. Common fault by RB26. 
Also it can be CAS, but im still bidding on coil packs/plugs.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Had some stuff come up so only just been able to take a plug out.

Code is NGK iridium - BCPR6EIX-11

Have put standard fuel pump back in aswell.

Does it have to be plugged in to be tested or can you do it like the old Honda's? 

Cheers
Liam


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

What mods does the car currently have


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

It's is completely standard at the moment. I plan to stage 1 it though.


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

If it's completely standard then it's likely to be either

O2 sensor
Coil packs
Cool pack loom
Water temp sensor
Fuel pump or filter
Afm


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

DazGTR said:


> If it's completely standard then it's likely to be either
> 
> O2 sensor
> Coil packs
> ...


Or it can also be ICM or CAS. 

Try to read ecu fail codes, see if you have code 21. It will sort things out a bit. You will then see that problem is in ignition system. You can buy all you need for code reading in ebay or do it your self with ecu. 

Search on forum, you should find how to read fault codes.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

I got code 21 - ignition signal.

Had a little search about and people have said they got when coilpacks are going ?
Does that narrow it down to just coilpacks or could it be loom/amplifier aswell ?

Cheers
Liam


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

It could be any one of those 3


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Hmm ok, anyone local to oxford have any working items I could try in exchange for beer ?


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Liam_thornton said:


> I got code 21 - ignition signal.
> 
> Had a little search about and people have said they got when coilpacks are going ?
> Does that narrow it down to just coilpacks or could it be loom/amplifier aswell ?
> ...


So you have the same code as i had. Thats progress already.  
I still bet on Coilpacks if they are still 20 years old stock ones. 

It is your coil pack loom, ICM or coilpacks. 

I say buy coil packs first. It will also be good future upgrade.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Right I'll start with coilpacks, found these on ebay, only ones in the uk :/
Unless anyone can reccommend others ? 
Nissan Skyline R32 R33 R34 RB25 RB26 High Performance Ignition Coils Coil Packs | eBay

I'm going to test the ignition amplifier with a better multi meter.

Is there a way of testing the loom ?


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Liam_thornton said:


> Right I'll start with coilpacks, found these on ebay, only ones in the uk :/
> Unless anyone can reccommend others ?
> Nissan Skyline R32 R33 R34 RB25 RB26 High Performance Ignition Coils Coil Packs | eBay
> 
> ...


Yes, take those coil packs. I have the same coilpacks and they work great!


----------



## Fish91 (Jul 15, 2014)

Liam_thornton said:


> Had some stuff come up so only just been able to take a plug out.
> 
> Code is NGK iridium - BCPR6EIX-11
> 
> ...


Did you gap the plugs? .8mm? .....11=1.1mm which for a boosted engine could cause a misfire.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Not yet mate, I haven't got any feeler gauge's, will order some now and test as soon as they arrive.


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Iridium aren't designed to be gapped but going off your code yours are just copper plugs


----------



## Fish91 (Jul 15, 2014)

Liam_thornton said:


> Not yet mate, I haven't got any feeler gauge's, will order some now and test as soon as they arrive.


I'd do that before buying coilpacks personally. I retten there lies your problem, certainly isn't helping.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Well ... I bought them coilpacks anyway, and I've just bought a gapping tool, should be here by Friday so will update this thread then 

Thanks for all the help.


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Fish91 said:


> Did you gap the plugs? .8mm? .....11=1.1mm which for a boosted engine could cause a misfire.


Not always 1.1 gap is a problem. He is running stock engine. Ans 1.1mm gap is stock plug gap. A lot of people run 0.8mm gap because it's hard to find someone with GTR and stock boost level.  I also have 0.8mm gap. 

Stock Spark Plug for an RB26DETT
NGK PFR6A-11
* P = Premium platinum
* F = 14, 19mm(3/4") reach, 16mm (5/8") hex
* R = Resistor
* 6 = Heat range 6
* A = Firing end construction
* -11 = 1.1mm gap (0.044")
Heat range for NGK plugs 2 HOT - 11 Cold


http://www.gtrcanada.com/wordpress/2014/01/rb26dett-spark-plug-guide/

I suggest you that you dont gap your old plugs, just buy new ones:

6x NEW NGK Replacement SPARK PLUGS - Part No. BCPR7ES Stock No. 3330 6pk | eBay

If i recall, BCPR7ES are already gapped at 0.8mm. So just put them in.


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Some useful info - http://www.gtrusablog.com/2010/05/rb26dett-rb26-spark-plugs.html


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Right... I changed the plugs and coilpacks to one's suggested. It made the misfire a lot worse, I put the old plugs back in and kept the new coilpacks and went back to the usual small misfire 
Igniter or loom then ?

I also found that there is a leak between the master cylinder and servo, I only noticed it because when you switch the engine off you can hear it sucking air in. 
I discounted the top pipe that goes to the one way valve and blocked it with my finger and still misfires so I'm guessing that's a seperate problem ??


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Air leaking at the servo will likely cause erratic idle/ stalling when coming off the gas or breaking.. 

So your still running OEM fuel pump with old plugs new coil packs new loom ? 

Am I right ?


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Idle isn't erratic just a little high with a misfire.
Doesn't stall or drop revs.

New coilpacks, old plugs, old loom, old igniter, oem fuel pump.


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Replace parts that you already have so your running new ie 

Fuel pump
Plugs 
Coilpacks

Then set about fixing that air leak so your idle is running correct 

Have you tried squirting carb cleaner around the throttle bodies and intake manifold ?


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

I put a walbro in and it made no difference (if anything it got a little worse) 
New plugs made it a lot worse.
New coilpacks are fitted and still miss'

I squirted 'quick start' around and didn't notice any change but will try that again.

Would it be worth just getting new loom and igniter ?

Also while I'm changing the master cylinder and servo I might aswell upgrade them. Am I correct in thinking the Z32 BM57 is larger ? Is there a better servo that is a direct replacement ?


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Don't forget these cars and their ancillaries are getting old once you start to change out old parts it emphasises worn/tired parts so replacing pump plugs and coils for new will outperform 20 odd year old parts using the same ignition / fuel system... Refit all the new stuff you have and while your at it replace the fuel filter that way you know the fueling side is up to scratch so to speak...


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Quite a few upgrade to the R33 bmc


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Liam_thornton said:


> Idle isn't erratic just a little high with a misfire.
> Doesn't stall or drop revs.
> 
> New coilpacks, old plugs, old loom, old igniter, oem fuel pump.



If you have fail code 21, then it's something with ignition. 
Put new coil pack in, and also new plugs (did you get he BCPR7ES ones?)
Dont put back on the old parts, just because with them was better. 
If it went worse while you ware replacing the parts, sounds like connection problem to me. When you put new coil packs and plugs in, reset ECU and look if you see 21 code after miss fire. If the 21 code is gone, look at fuel pump, filter. If 21 code is still there, it's your coil pack look, igniter, CAS.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Riiiight! Fitted a brand new coilpack loom, with the new coilpacks.
Still miss's
Tried both sets of plugs, gets worse with above suggested ones.

The error code has now gone though :/

It has now developed a further problem, if I try and rev it, it won't go about 2800rpm, it hair sits there like it's hitting a rev limiter.

Would have crappy fuel make it do this as when I bought it I had to put some 95 unleaded in it as I was no where near any v-power. Would it be worth filling the tank with v-power ?

Going to try fuel filter next.


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

If it's hitting what seems like a limiter then it sounds like the ecu is retarding the timing


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Running 95 Ron fuel is a no no unless mapped for it but do 
Check all intercooler boost pipes for leaks improper clamped jubilee clips etc 
Don't rule out 02 sensors and the amplifier earth which should be clamped to the amplifier itself 

Also you may want to think about buying an EBC instead of relying on the stock solenoid to control boost


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

I'll drain the tank and fill with v-power then.

Front end is off as just removed the air con so can check for boost leaks.
Pretty sure O2 sensors are new as the wiring looks brand new.
Ignition amplifier is earth correctly, will clean all the earths up and try again.

What boost controller would you recommend ? Apexi acvr ?

Cheers 
Liam


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Yes mate avcr is about the best which is what I have but there's also the greddy profec b or gizzmo ibc


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Also I ran Ngk bcpr7es copper plugs and mine didn't like them so I switched to Ngk bkr7eix iridium and it runs sweet


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

I dont think it's fuel. I have driven stock R32 Rb26dett with 95 to 102 octane with stock ECU with no problems. If you take your battery off, stock ECU will adapt for the fuel. I dont think it's fuel. 

No one i know had problems with bcpr7es copper plugs even with High HP applications. If your 21 codes is gone, then problem is not anymore in your ignition system. 

Before you invest in changing 1000 parts on your car and spendig 1000Gbp... i suggest that you buy this thing - 

OBD 14 Pins USB Diagnostics Scan Tool Interface 1989~2000 DDL For Nissan Consult | eBay

or this if your laptop have Com port, 

Nissan Consult Interface 14 Pin Scan Fault Code Reader DB9 RS232 | eBay


There are Free programms for it and both tools run great. I suggest you to take that one from China with USB cable. Connect that thing to your car, and look at all actual info when your car runs. You will see if oxygen sensor voltages are okey, you will see your AFM voltages and other useful stuff. With this programm, if you have a missfire, you can turn off cylinder one by one, to see which cylinder has missfire and so on. Buy this. 
It will also show you if one of sensors are not sending your ECU info. 

Now it can be anything from fuel to knock sensors, and so on. Don't just buy random parts till you fix it, try to look inside the ECU with PC first.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

So I changed fuel filter last night, no difference. Didn't drain fuel though as you suggested it's fine.

Figured out why it wouldn't rev past 2800rpm, forgot to plug the bottom air flow meter in!
I have ordered that top USB obd reader.

I tried to re read the codes by bridging the pins in the obd plug, from searching it says that t should read '55' if there are no reported problems.
Now '21' has gone, when I switch ignition on, the light comes on then immediately goes out, stays off and doesn't read any numbers at all. That seems fine to me but on the thread I found it said it should read 55 :/

Cheers
Liam


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Liam_thornton said:


> So I changed fuel filter last night, no difference. Didn't drain fuel though as you suggested it's fine.
> 
> Figured out why it wouldn't rev past 2800rpm, forgot to plug the bottom air flow meter in!
> I have ordered that top USB obd reader.
> ...


Yes, it should read 55 if there are no problems. Just order that USB thing and it will make your life easyer and will answer a lot of your questions.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

It was reccommend i post up a video of misfiring.
The video is starting from cold, can hear misfire near the end of the video. 

https://flic.kr/p/pbkqVx
https://flic.kr/p/q85orr


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Hard to tell by your videos. But it's not so bad how bad i had it. Mine was much worse when i got my car. Wait till you have all for PC (usb and consult). Then get back to us.  

Will sort this out.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Right, got that reader and plugged it in.
Came back as code 55: no errors


It says it's running lean ??
Also my friend said the BTDC seems high ? It did go down as it started to warm up ? 
Does everything else seem ok ?

What's next, compression test ?


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

Hi! Post the same picture but wiht engine complete warm. 

This programm is not so good. Download this one - 

ECUTalk - Consult Software 

Or i like better this one: 

Nissan ScanTech 1.28
http://www.minsk555.narod.ru/ScanTechSc.zip

Try to get Nissan ScanTech 1.28. It's the best in my opinion. You can log your car data and post it. So we can look at it.  

This is how the scan tech works - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgp3uZRK9ok


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Can't get either of them program's to work  

Anyone wanna buy an R32!

As much as I'd like to fix this myself it's starting to annoy me.

If I wanted to, who is the best person to take it to so they can look at it ?


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

Where are you based


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Witney, Oxfordshire


----------



## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

I'd imagine down that way you're looking at MGT racing, abbey Motorsport, RK tuning etc


----------



## RossC (Oct 20, 2014)

Sent you a PM mate, have had this problem before!


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Yea got your pm, thanks, is there anyway of testing to see if it's leaking ? Surley the manifold pressure sensor would throw a fault if it was ? 

Did a compression test just to cross that off the list. 
1. 135psi 
2. 135psi
3. 135psi
4. 135psi
5. 140psi
6. 140psi

The plugs have got really sooty so would suggest running rich.
Got my mechanic friend to plug it in, his machine didn't read any fault codes and everything seemed ok.
He suggested the plugs should be changed for some iridiums so I'm going to get some new ones with a smaller gap.




That's when it was warm.
Thanks
Liam


----------



## RossC (Oct 20, 2014)

The manifold sensor won't pick it up as the leak will be after the sensor. While it is idling try spraying some wd40 around the manifold gasket and see if you can see the leak. It can be very difficult to see though.


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Ahh right, will it bubble (push air out) or will it suck air in ?


----------



## RossC (Oct 20, 2014)

It should suck air in but you will still see it bubble. The best way to test would be a smoke machine especially if the leak is on the underside of the manifold!


----------



## Liam_thornton (Aug 11, 2014)

Can anyone suggest software that can do data logging, that actually works? 

Cheers
Liam


----------



## monkichi (Sep 28, 2013)

The programs i gave you should work. Worked with my all PC on windows xp, windows 7 and 8 without problems. Datalog is there too.


----------



## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I'm not sure if anyone else actually tried what I did to permanently cure my misfire problems - surface gap plugs, HKS ignition amp, Splitfire coilpacks, and a grounding kit for good measure. never had a problem after that, even after upgrading to 2530s and boosting around 1.7~1.9 bars.

it's not good btw to run blind re: fuel pressure. it is possible to melt pistons by losing fuel pressure from a failing pump, which is exactly what happened to me on stock turbos, running about 1.1 bars of boost. with a fuel pressure gauge you can see your pump flaking out before it's too late.


----------

