# Stage 3 TTRS (660) vs Stage 1 GTR (MY11 600)



## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

Video below of a stage 3 tuned TTRS vs a stage 1 tuned MY11 GTR

Both cars belong to the same owner and a series of videos were shot at Bruntingthorpe a couple of days ago. TTRS is a manual transmission car with 660/1350Kg vs GTR 600/1750kg

No idea really why I'm posting this, seems to be doing the rounds on the internet/Facebook/forums, doesn't really mean anything other than a little banter and winding up. Standard vs standard, modded vs modded, GTR is going to win but non the less, a side by side comparison showing that the GTR is a heavy old bugger when matched side by side with something that has comparable power (within 10%)

Before you all shoot the messenger, I sold my 'hairdressers' mobile a few months ago for an F10 M5 and its probably been the worst decision I've made in the 30yrs on this planet so far. Had an engine failure within the first thousand miles, nearly killed the missus and kids on a wet roundabout and now have a horrible noise 2-3 in the box. I'll probably admit defeat and get myself a Datsun in the next couple of months. Anyway, enjoy :thumbsup:






The owner is trying to organise a few side by sides with some fast cars at Bruntingthorpe soon, if any of you are interested in going up against it at Brunters soon then make your interest known and I'm sure he would be up for the challenge. I'm thinking it would need a stage 5 car circa 800 car to outgun him? Thoughts


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

Can't see anything.


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

Hmm strange, thought I embedded it in the first post...

660BHP Stage III Audi TTRS vs 600HP Stage I Nissan R35 GTR (Gen2) - YouTube


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## jonnypolish (Sep 25, 2012)

Try a static start and we'll see if the Audi can catch the GTR before the finish line.. the extra weight comparison will come a lot from the 4wd system


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

Jonny, to be fair mate, the TTRS even in standard form launches harder than a GTR










My stage 2 S-Tronic was pulling 0-60 in 3.0 and 100 in 7.1 with a piddly 425hp

Audi TTRS 0-60mph = 3.0 - YouTube

This manual car is currently doing 2.8 on MPSS tyres all day long. Think from a start mate, it would be even worse.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

Don't think a Stage 1 GTR is 600, a Stage 4 is 620 therefore a Stage 4.5 is what's needed to even out the HP.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Stage 3 vs stage 1 GTR?

How about stage 3 vs stage 3 GTR?

Oh yea, I know which one would win - easily.

All this rolling launch is b******t anyway, it only takes the other driver (of either car) to hit the accelerator a split second before the other and that will be enough to pull away first.


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## demessiah (Sep 7, 2013)

GTR was the big thing last decade but when its getting out gunned by a hairdressers car its time to admit times have changed.

GTR is just too fat and lardy to compete in this modern world.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

demessiah said:


> GTR was the big thing last decade but when its getting out gunned by a hairdressers car its time to admit times have changed.
> 
> GTR is just too fat and lardy to compete in this modern world.


Lol.

It will p1ss all over the TTRS on the track.

Troll on....


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## demessiah (Sep 7, 2013)

jonnypolish said:


> Try a static start and we'll see if the Audi can catch the GTR before the finish line.. the extra weight comparison will come a lot from the 4wd system


:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

Another GTR fanboi who will have his dreams shattered next time he meets a TTRS at the lights!


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

demessiah said:


> GTR was the big thing last decade but when its getting out gunned by a hairdressers car its time to admit times have changed.
> 
> GTR is just too fat and lardy to compete in this modern world.


is the tt forum off line today ?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

**** me the trolls have arrived.

Where's the anti-troll spray Mook??


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## Nedzilla (Feb 10, 2012)

If the weights and power outputs quoted for both cars are accurate then i would say that is a pretty predictable outcome. What else was expected?

Stage 3 on the tt though producing 660 bhp?? Im no expert but im guessing to get a tt up to that level requires a lot of work and not the equivelant to the bolt on bits and remap of a stage 3 gtr.


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## SamboGrove (Jun 27, 2010)

Nedzilla said:


> If the weights and power outputs quoted for both cars are accurate then i would say that is a pretty predictable outcome. What else was expected?
> 
> Stage 3 on the tt though producing 660 bhp?? Im no expert but im guessing to get a tt up to that level requires a lot of work and not the equivelant to the bolt on bits and remap of a stage 3 gtr.


+1

Detailed list of mods on the TT please

Fair play in a straight line though. Massive weight difference so to be expected. Introduce it to some corners and I doubt it would fair as well.


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## Peter R35 Gt-R (Jun 13, 2011)

Some people don't mind looking like fanny boys driving a TT , but I'll be staying with a proper mans car the GT-R .


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Does this really have to descend into a slanging match already? I was looking forward to a constructive discussion?

TT's are for girls and GTR's are for chavs.

Now that we have got that out the way perhaps someone with a 700hp GTR cares to join this TTRS for a race at bruntingthorpe?

Should be interesting imo


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

Looks fast in the video, any Vbox results from it? Or maybe 1/4 mile times?


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

JamieP with the crazy supra that knows Iby?

I've googled that TT and found some vbox figures

0-60 in 2.8
30-130mph in 8.7
1/4 mile in 10.7 @ 136mph


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Here's the owners build thread

here

Standard 335bhp

Upgraded turbo etc to take it to 660. Check out the cool cad/cam work on the manifolds etc. That doesnt come cheap. Weighs about the same as a can of Hairspray so hardly a surprise that a new turbo'd TTRS beats a stage 1 MY11. You could put plenty of souped up one-of-a-kind cars against a MY11 stage 1 and they'd win

Only a [email protected] who gives a shit about TTRS's would even consider comparing.


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## MattGTR750 (Apr 26, 2012)

Iby drives a civic


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## Nedzilla (Feb 10, 2012)

demessiah said:


> :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:
> 
> Another GTR fanboi who will have his dreams shattered next time he meets a TTRS at the lights!


Are you serious? Stock vs stock a GTR will ALWAYS beat a ttrs lights,track whatever. If your talking tuned cars then where does it end?? You can always tune a gtr to go far,far quicker than you ever could a ttrs.

And as with most if not ALL members on here. We are just not interested in driving around in fashion accessories,no matter how quick you make it go. If we were,im sure we would've all bought one instead.


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

VmaxxVernon said:


> JamieP with the crazy supra that knows Iby?
> 
> I've googled that TT and found some vbox figures
> 
> ...





Ha, the same 

That's a decent 30-130, although my GTR did it in 6.48 at a recent MLR event, not bad for a fat boy


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Mmmmm weights is 1450kg, about normal for a car of its size?


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

JamieP said:


> Ha, the same
> 
> That's a decent 30-130, although my GTR did it in 6.48 at a recent MLR event, not bad for a fat boy


Cool, I recognise a few people are here already. The passion for cars bringing people together


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## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

I'd be up for a day at Brunters BTW.


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## SamboGrove (Jun 27, 2010)

13k for the turbo system alone.
APR 2.5 TFSI Stage III GTX Turbocharger System
I can't be arsed to read the whole build thread but I assume engine internals are upgraded as well so more £££.

Throw similar sort of dosh at a GTR and I'd imagine you'd something more like a 800hp missile.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

SamboGrove said:


> 13k for the turbo system alone.
> APR 2.5 TFSI Stage III GTX Turbocharger System
> I can't be arsed to read the whole build thread but I assume engine internals are upgraded as well so more £££.
> 
> Throw similar sort of dosh at a GTR and I'd imagine you'd something more like a 800hp missile.


And the rest ;-) You can get AMS Alpha 10 Turbos/Iain's SVMs for that sort of cash plus Stage 4 usual bits, 102MM Exhaust, downpipes and rods/pistons and not really worth comparing.

I love cars and I don't hate the TTRS any more or less than any other car. Was at Salon Prive yesterday and looking at a Pagani Ahuryyrarraaaa. It is ok but would I pay £1.6 million for it? Not when I could get an F40, F50 and Enzo for the same cash (ish). 

Cars are all personal taste and great but at no point, ever, in the long history of the world, has someone come up to an Audi TT in the Shell station, or hung out of a white van or car window and shouted 'amazing car, love it can I take a picture'.

Personally, after seeing some yesterday, I am thinking about ditching the car and getting a spanking perfect 355 Berlinetta in Rosso with Crema and a Larini Exhaust. Not a GTR but so much better in so many ways and so much worse in others. No depreciation worries though ;-)


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Well that's not true at all, my TTRS gets loads of attention, male and female. Ok especially females LOVE it.

But then again who buys a car on the basis of what others think? I buy them on the basis of want, need, and size of the pocket.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

VmaxxVernon said:


> Well that's not true at all, my TTRS gets loads of attention, male and female. Ok especially females LOVE it.


I bet they do....are you in a special are of London for that haha :runaway:


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## Peter R35 Gt-R (Jun 13, 2011)

Sold a ferrari to buy a nissan  nissan is buy far a better car and I can use it everyday !


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

ROG350Z said:


> I bet they do....are you in a special are of London for that haha :runaway:


Haha yeah the council estates filled with the usual skylines and GTR's so the females quite enjoy seeing something a bit more premium time to time.

I remember when I first got my TTRS, I took it to where all the youngsters raced at excel and all the guys swarmed round like flies on shit.

But yeah anyway both the GTR and the TTRS get loads of looks, comments, "woahs" from youngsters etc.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Peter R35 Gt-R said:


> Sold a ferrari to buy a nissan  nissan is buy far a better car and I can use it everyday !


I was thinking of the investment!


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## Peter R35 Gt-R (Jun 13, 2011)

ROG350Z said:


> I was thinking of the investment!


I was thinking enjoyment


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

996 GT3's will appreciate long term


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## Peter R35 Gt-R (Jun 13, 2011)

Not fussed on beetles had one didn't like it .


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## TomS (Mar 21, 2012)

I really don't get the point of this comparison, the 600 vs 660hp is completely irrelevant as it's the bhp/tonne that matters surely? The TTRS has more than 40% more bhp/tonne than the GTR so if it wasn't pulling away at a decent pace the owner should be driving home in tears.

GTR - 343bhp/tonne
TTRS - 489bhp/tonne

That's like comparing a stock RS4(B7) to this GTR in a straight line, pointless.


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## Alexinphuket (Jan 25, 2012)

JamieP said:


> I'd be up for a day at Brunters BTW.


Ill join you J depending on when it is.


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Fair play thats a quick TTRS. It has to be said the TT has come on a lot since its first incarnation but in terms of straight line speed you've been able to tune the bits out of impreza's / Evo's since the 90's to be that quick so its hardly a revalation. If anything it just goes to show how long its taken the Germans to figure out what the Japanese have been doing for 25 years now in terms of turbocharged engines...

Heres a good impreza vs GTR video. 

Andy Forrest Subaru Impreza RA vs Nissan GTR TOTB 2013 DRAG RACE FINAL 4WD CLASS - YouTube


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

With regards to TTRS tuning, Stage 1 would just be an off the shelf generic remap. Stage 2 is all the bolt ons customised and stage 3 is turbo change. That's about as far as it goes for the TTRS. With regards to GTR, you guys go up to stage 4 for bolt ons and then stage 5 onwards for turbo changes. 

Sure though, in this case, the TTRS has probably had £20k+ splashed on it to extract the power. We all know if you spend the same wedge on a GTR, it goes back to how it started out in the first place. 

The owner of the car in the vid would more than likely outgun any driver on this forum around the Nurburgring in his TT I suspect, he's fairly handy in that department. Listen to his gear changes in the video, almost like twin clutch. 

Anyways, wasn't meant to be a my willys bigger than yours thread, take it for what it is, a heavily modified TT vs a lightly fettled with GTR. He owns the GTR too so I'm sure at one point down the line he'll make his TT disappear. 

He hasn't yet run it on a drag strip, numbers only from a vbox at Brunters, would hazard a guess with a Santapod track, low to mid 10's which of course is only mediocre in the GTR world. 

And guys, try not to bite, as said, the PWR figures are heavily in the Audi's favour here. I'd like to see it up against a stage 5 car, probably much fairer comparison at money spent mods wise.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Lol. Jethro Bovingdon's a tweet this morning is so apt. Lol


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Where's alloy?


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm sorry, what exactly is this video meant to prove? That if you throw enough money (£20k) at an Audi Titty it will outperform a remapped GTR thats had £1K spent on it? Well, I'm blown away. Just about any car can be made to outperform a GTR if enough money is chucked at it.


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## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

I remember you from my TTOC days Leo  That's pretty impressive for a manual TTRS, I reckon a STronic would be even faster. TTRS is indeed a beast in its own right - my manual TTS was good fun on Stage 1.

Shame about the hairdresser image but that's expected sharing the same chassis with other engined models. Fun car and if I do downsize one day would consider a TTRS STronic Plus.

Any more info about your F10 M5?


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

I suspect if the GTR had double the power it would be goodbye to anything...

I can say that having been a passenger in a Panamera turbo the launch is impressive.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm a big fanf the TTRS, but it's never going to handle like a gtr. Why is everything about straight lines these days?


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Lol at this thread :chuckle: 45 replies in such a short space of time, thought it was one I had missed at first lol.

Anyways, I personally like the TTRS but do agree that the comparison is very silly considering the mods done, power to weight ratio differences etc, but hey ho got us all talking.

Good to see you still have the skills to start trouble on this forum Leo :chuckle: I would say though mate that he following comment is a little strong

'The owner of the car in the vid would more than likely outgun any driver on this forum around the Nurburgring in his TT I suspect, he's fairly handy in that department. Listen to his gear changes in the video, almost like twin clutch.'

Don't forget there's a lot of peeps on here that are a little tasty themselves, not me I might add, I jus have no fear :chuckle: think the forum has some race drivers and instructors so unless your mate is some sort of high flying acing driver I'm thinking that a little bi of a sweeping statement.

Really sorry to hear about your M5 trouble mate, hope they have been covering the faults with no trouble. If I ever decide to have kids (not happening lol) that's properly what I'd go for. Not now though.

Keep the banter up fella ; )


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

saucyboy said:


> Lol at this thread :chuckle: 43 replies in such a short space of time, thought it was one I had missed at first lol.
> 
> Anyways, I personally like the TTRS but do agree that the comparison is very silly considering the mods done, power to weight ratio differences etc, but hey ho got us all talking.
> 
> ...


He's a LMS driver mate hence my statement, if you search up his username on the tt forum you'll be able to work out who  Saying that, I'm not sure what other pro drivers we have here so perhaps my statement was a little far fetched, I should have said would show the vast majority a clean pair of heels. 

Yeah, I'm having a nightmare with the M5, never got used to not having the low end traction, always twitchy below 60 full throttle, it's great for the kiddies and it was everything that I was needing space and performance wise but have never really gelled with it. Had it tuned and fitted an exhaust and then not long after it spilt it's guts on me. Was a scary week or so before they decided to replace the engine but took them the best part of two months all in. Getting a Q5 for the kids next month so will allow me to chop in the M5 for something else, more than likely a GTR, I'm missing the dragstrip and the manic lowdown acceleration, something the M5 is pretty sh*t at. 

All good fun


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

Interesting project thread, looks like great engineering and results.

I saw mention of running in a new engine, but take it that a more typical stage 3 kit is designed to be reliable, smooth, quiet and foible free without any changes to clutch, gearbox, fuel system, engine, heads/cams as it is basically software and breathing mods? If so, sounds like an excellent package, but I suspect a TTRS with just a tune and a bit of work on breathing with the OEM turbo is more than adequate and the real value proposition, if the cars themselves were cheaper on the used market.

Great to see good progress being made on this platform which has always sounded interesting since Mitchy has been talking about it here and elsewhere.


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Didn't a 470bhp TTRS with stock suspension beat a lot of the GTR times around Bedford how fast on road tyres?


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

I think Jonny had his engine strengthened just for peace of mind, not quite sure anyone has tested the 2.5t engine to destruction yet. 

You're right, the stage 3 kit from APR doesn't require engine work though, no. 

You can pick up 2009 TTRS's for mid £20k's now, S tronic 2011 cars for low £30k's so they are pretty decent value for money. Much more affordable to run over say a GTR aswell. 

Interesting project though, I believe he is now away to tune for race fuel and that will give him 750-775. (Probably the reason why he built the engine)


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

Equivalent 2009 GT-R is probably only about £5k more than 2009 TTRS though?

I do love the GT-R chassis though, the attitude it takes out of corners is far more user friendly since I ditched the run flats and I am loving it.

Apart from being manual only, do the 2009 TTRS have any foibles or issues?


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Wow, just checked out his build thread. Very impressive, top quality work and cars looks the nuts. Nice pairing car wise too, modded TTRS and GTR, lucky git lol.

Interested to see what he can do with he R35.


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## HSimon (Jun 4, 2008)

Craig,
Sorry to hear about your M5 woes, i havent had an ounce of trouble with mine, but do agree, that the low down traction is something you would miss, after the 4wd of the Audi, even the Haldex system. Would you not fancy another S-Tronic RS, or are you set on a GT-R ?. Could i ask who remapped your M5, and which exhaust you went for, as i thought not many companies had cracked the M5s code yet ?, regards, SIMON.


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## dragerboy (May 15, 2003)

Impressive performance I think. Im still stunned to believe its a standard manual though as those gearshifts sound like flappy paddle or sequential stuff.


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

I saw M5 lease for 499+VAT on 6+23 which is a killer deal, but the road legal traction would annoy me.


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## HSimon (Jun 4, 2008)

thistle said:


> I saw M5 lease for 499+VAT on 6+23 which is a killer deal, but the road legal traction would annoy me.


John,
Have to admit, the throttle does need restraint, even when just damp, but once hooked up, the M5 just flys.


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

None that I'm aware of John, they've been pretty bulletproof since day 1. On release date, the TTRS and GTR were priced pretty closely to begin with, £45k vs £55k so they've both held value fairly well. It's the very cheap running costs that is the TTRS's main plus point though, cheap as chips to tax, insure, fuel, service and run day to day.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

I'm well up for taking ANY spec TTRS on in my stage 1 R32 GTR round and track.


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## 64btzlhy (May 31, 2005)

The 1/4 time terminal on the TT are a full bolt on E85 R35..... Cheap as chips to build really. However they do run in the low tens ;-) 

By the way how the chuff do you post pics on this site.... !!!!!


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

The little yellow picture icon and paste URL for image upload. 

Simon, thought about it mate but want to try GTR/997TT next. Supersprint with the exhaust, tuner is political at the mo.


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## OldBob (Oct 18, 2010)

opcorn:


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

997 Turbo is worth a try mate. Really nice motors and very cheap to run with a decent Indy. The 996 Turbo I had prior to the GTR was very cheap to run through RSJ, which is where I'd bought it from. 

M5 rear action sounds good to me lol. However I am a bit of a rear slip nut tbh. Funny thing is with the Yoko's on mine at the mo the GTR can feel very, very, rear wheel drive around the twistie stuff at slower speeds, which is just fine with me  properly no good on the track but a lot of fun on the road when safe to do so. 

Think it's the rear biase feel that I have really fallen for in the GTR. Get great traction off the line, can have a play with the rear end in the slow corners and have massive traction out of corners if needed and being sensible with mid corner speeds, I.e not just trying to mess around lol. I love it :smokin:

Sorry, went off topic. Right, back to the banter between GTR owners and TT's.


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## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

Trev said:


> I'm well up for taking ANY spec TTRS on in my stage 1 R32 GTR round and track.


Bold claim lol, I would like to see the video if this is a reality


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Bwahahahah jonny would probably beat that stage 1 r32 GTR round the track in Kia GTI lmao


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## jameswrx (Jul 27, 2003)

TT RS, just a bit.. I think they're comparable to those Pink tool kits you can get for women.

I can only wonder what it must be like owning one.

Q "What is it you drive Tarquin?" 
A "Oh, I've got a TT RS" 
Q "A TT?" (takes step back & clenches bum cheeks together)
A "Yeah, but it's REALLY fast, it's an RS"
Q "Yeah, my mate's wife has a TT"
A "No, but this is an RS. It's fast."
Q "yeah, my mate's wife's one is supposed to quick"
A "No, this is an RS. It's nothing like your mate's wife's"


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

VmaxxVernon said:


> Bwahahahah jonny would probably beat that stage 1 r32 GTR round the track in Kia GTI lmao


Well troll, bring a Kia GTI (which doesn't exist) and I'll REVERSE round the track quicker.

Let the troll fest commence!


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

sw20GTS said:


> Bold claim lol, I would like to see the video if this is a reality


Lets keep feeding the trolls and make it happen people!

Besides, all the ladies "admiring" the TTRS's would be too distracting for the men driving them!

Wonder how many times they get asked how much they charge for a haircut?


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

jameswrx said:


> TT RS, just a bit.. I think they're comparable to those Pink tool kits you can get for women.
> 
> I can only wonder what it must be like owning one.
> 
> ...


Haha, got to give it to you, that made me laugh:chuckle:


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## Boyakasha (May 10, 2004)

LEO-RS said:


> Getting a Q5 for the kids next month so will allow me to chop in the M5 for something else, more than likely a GTR, I'm missing the dragstrip and the manic lowdown acceleration, something the M5 is pretty sh*t at.
> 
> All good fun


Drop me an e-mail/PM if you're wanting to pop past the house for a nosey.

I got an email from Hamish about doing the charity Kidz thing at Crail on the 21st but can't make it 

Marc


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

LEO-RS said:


> He's a LMS driver mate hence my statement, if you search up his username on the tt forum you'll be able to work out who  Saying that, I'm not sure what other pro drivers we have here so perhaps my statement was a little far fetched, I should have said would show the vast majority a clean pair of heels.
> 
> Yeah, I'm having a nightmare with the M5, never got used to not having the low end traction, always twitchy below 60 full throttle, it's great for the kiddies and it was everything that I was needing space and performance wise but have never really gelled with it. Had it tuned and fitted an exhaust and then not long after it spilt it's guts on me. Was a scary week or so before they decided to replace the engine but took them the best part of two months all in. Getting a Q5 for the kids next month so will allow me to chop in the M5 for something else, more than likely a GTR, I'm missing the dragstrip and the manic lowdown acceleration, something the M5 is pretty sh*t at.
> 
> All good fun


You're heading my way! GTR, Q5 and TTS!


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Just for the record I actually think the TTRS isnt a bad car . Its not my cup of tea but Im sure they are decent to drive.
But picking a stupidly fast one and comparing it to a stage 1 GTR is just plain silly. After all any car can be made to go silly fast with enough £££s

So rather than talking about a pretty special TTRS and comparing it with a mildly tuned GTR why not compare the overall results of say the 30-130 at marham this year

Fastest TTRS (out of 5 or 6 I think ) was about I think 13.5 and thats nowhere near any of the GTR times . Its not even as fast as my 1750kg nissan estate and that is 16 years old.

Maybe I should start a thread on the TT forum :chuckle:


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

And by the way, looking at a SQ5 at the moment.

Always impressed by the TTRS, but not sure about your statement about the Ring.

I know who you are referring to and yes, respect


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Why the sq5?


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

Well for what it's worth here are the Top 10 times for a Nissan & Audi off the Bedford How Fast Leaderboard. _(Their search facility makes it difficult to narrow down to model and get all of the cars due to minor differences in the descriptions)_ However all of the top Nissans are I think R35 and most of the top Audi are TT RS. 




Draw your own conclusions, but I think that the GT-R has the edge. :chuckle:


Rich


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Not been on much, so missed all of this.

Thank heaven for small mercies.

The TT-RS is OK, but it's not fun to drive in my opinion, it understeers too much, it's got less headroom than the GT-R (and I didn't think anything could have!) and even though it costs £40k+ they can't even be bothered to fit a centre console that puts the handbrake on the correct side.

Yes, you can tart one up. But why would you?


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Out of interest, why is it usually the TT-RS on here, tweaked and being compared?

At Santa Pod a few weeks back a Seat Arosa 1.9tdi did a 10.8 quarter mile.

They didn't feel the need to come on here claiming it could take on GT-Rs.

Is it the car or the poster who has a bit of an insecurity thing going on?


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

Rich-GT said:


> Well for what it's worth here are the Top 10 times for a Nissan & Audi off the Bedford How Fast Leaderboard. _(Their search facility makes it difficult to narrow down to model and get all of the cars due to minor differences in the descriptions)_ However all of the top Nissans are I think R35 and most of the top Audi are TT RS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The time that Jonny set there was in another owners car at stage 2 tuned level (430) With 660 and in his own car that has been setup for how he likes to drive, will he make up that 1.4sec gap to top that comparison above? Draw your own conclusions 

CT17, GTR is a benchmark, the comparison was made purely because the owner owns both. Your typical Seat Arosa isn't going to give a GTR a hard time, your typical TTRS just may  

Anyway, try not to bite mate, was meant in good fun.


----------



## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

I'm ashamed of the average GTR owners and their perceived invincibility and superiority over all other cars.
I was reading the latest Evo mag last night and two anorak GTR owners wrote in complaining about the fact that in the previous issue the new Porsche GT3 beat the GTR around the track and then went on to babble about 0-60 times and Ring lap times. Very embarrassing IMO if that's all the average GTR owner cares about.

As for the ring lap time, yes the GTR is fast, but has anyone independent got anywhere nissans claimed time yet? 

Anyway who gives a monkey about all that but really guys, you need to stop deriding other makes of cars, there's more to life than GTR and comments about it being "a real mans car" are just childish and immature


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Your right.
I'm off to buy a Seat Arosa diesel and tune it up.
Woo Hoo, Santa Pod times under 11 seconds here I come!  

I wonder if a Skoda Fabia VRS driver tuned their car and starting posting on the TT forum how there car was now quicker than a TT-RRS what the response would be.

Probably quite similar. 


It always comes down to the same thing.
You can pretty much ALWAYS mod a standard car (no matter how cack it is, not looking specifically at TT here) to be quicker in a straight line than nearly any stock car. You see this ALL the time at Santa Pod. It's nothing new.

There are loads of quick modded cars out there that will beat a stage 1 GT-R down the Pod. I have no problem with that. Been happening for ages.


----------



## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

The TTRS isn't running any exotic engine parts just a set of medium range aftermarket rods to replace the cheap cracked rods most vag's come with and now pistons due to some bore damage requiring a rebore


----------



## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

VmaxxVernon said:


> I'm ashamed of the average GTR owners and their perceived invincibility and superiority over all other cars.


Oh come on, we are superior to most other cars  and are bound to make comparisons, the above is just some friendly banter. 

The How Fast Times offer some nice comparisons on a controlled and timed track, with corners,  open to all.

If you take out the "track cars" Radicals, Aerial Atoms, Duncans turbo Dax etc then out of the "Real Cars", roof , air con etc  the GT-R does very well.

Jonny's time is extremely good for 430BHP, and it would be interesting to see him in his own car pitted against Richard Marshall?

I console myself with my lowly 1:22.80 that a number of the others, Rob Huff, Matt Bell are "Racing Drivers" as I assume is Jonny? So the jolly well ought to be fast. 

Rich


----------



## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

I have 2 good friends which both own TTRS verts.... 1 is standard and the other has a few minor mods with stock internals. Both surprised me on how good they were.... even the standard 1 is very quick..... not a lot of oem cars will give you much trouble..... Even around Bedford the standard TTRS was very quick. 
If I had the extra cash I would consider one... but wouldn't swap it for my GTR which im loving at the moment.


----------



## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

CT17 said:


> Is it the car or the poster who has a bit of an insecurity thing going on?


In all fairness the car screams insecurity, pink shirt and Bluetooth headset. 

Seriously though it is bizarre that owners of that particular make and model seem to drift over here and crow on about the performance of their modded cars relative to the GTR. I have been on numerous car forums and have never known it to be taken to this level. Even the Scooby vs Evo rival does not get this daft. God only knows there are plenty of Imprezas and Evos that will badly embarrass a GTR but how many threads do you see on here of the owners of said cars banging on about it?

Anyway, am now over to the bustling Bugatti Veyron owners forum to post up a video of a modded GTR leaving the Veyron for dust....that will show 'em! :thumbsup:


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

TTRS.

For Audi drivers that can't afford an R8.

RS6?

That's a real car.


----------



## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Rs6 is a real car lmao.

So in your mind only big and heavy cars are "real cars"

Here's me thinking if anything should be defined as a "real car" it would be open wheelers like a caterham, or something big capacity and rwd, with no electronic aids, no power steering, that's a "real mans car"


----------



## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

I notice all the rttrs only drivers seem to have left the building.


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

VmaxxVernon said:


> Rs6 is a real car lmao.
> 
> So in your mind only big and heavy cars are "real cars"
> 
> Here's me thinking if anything should be defined as a "real car" it would be open wheelers like a caterham, or something big capacity and rwd, with no electronic aids, no power steering, that's a "real mans car"


No, but in Audi terms, the RS6 is the daddy.

Seen the new RS6? TTRS will be p1ssed all over by it.


----------



## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

If overweight estate cars rock your boat.

The r8 v10 s-tronic is faster anyway so not sure what makes you think the old mans wagon is the daddy


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Can anyone tell that the TT boys have taken my bait yet?

We have biters!


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I resent the term TT boys.

I'm over the moon with my TT!

Got to say it is odd that it seems to always be the TTRS that is desperate to topple the GTR.

I think they are both going after the performance bargain title.

I think the TTRS has a lot going for it, but it would never tempt me away from the GTR. Whatever the TT guys will say, it was designed as a A3, intended to sell in bulk to make profit.

The GTR was designed as a supercar slaying purpose built performance car. That's why all TTRS GTR comparisons are based on straight line performance, which you have to commend it on. The fact remains that it takes an incredible driver in a tuned TTRS before you can consider comparing lap times.


----------



## car killer (Oct 27, 2005)

RSVFOUR said:


> I notice all the rttrs only drivers seem to have left the building.


That or its opening time at the salon. Wait a minute haven't the kids gone back to school lol

Can't we get this thread moved into the other marque section. Sick of seeing a blatant Audi topic at the top of a gtr specific forum.
If I wanted to read about ttrs I would join a audi forum. 
Come on mods sort it out.


----------



## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Hey guys,

Just thought it was worth me putting in a little message since I was made aware of this thread earlier.

First of all, I own both cars..

The video was recorded as a bit of fun, to compare my own two cars while having the opportunity to do so at an Airfield. Nothing more than that. I posted the video on my personal FB page and my Youtube channel for my friends to see. Since then, its gone a bit mad ha..

All of the 'real mans car' jokes are quite amusing, never really got it but all in good fun I suppose 

Im planning on creating a build thread for my GTR soon on here. Expect some pretty cool things! 

In the mean time, happy to be part of the GTR community :thumbsup:

Jonny


----------



## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

Fair play, look forward to seeing what you do with the GTR, make sure you do a build thread.

Jamie.


----------



## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Welcome mate. The work on your tt project thread looks like top quality stuff mate. Car looks great too. Don't take anything too seriously on here mate. After all its just the Internet and 'mostly' banter lol.

Look forward to seeing what you do to the GTR. Stay safe and enjoy both motors to the full


----------



## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

JCR_GTR said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Just thought it was worth me putting in a little message since I was made aware of this thread earlier.
> 
> ...


Welcome Johnny, I saw your vids previous to this thread... 2 of my mates who both own white TTRS verts told me about you... One of them you defo know.
Crazy build though... You gonna throw that much money into the GTR?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Mr Radley says not to bend over 


JCR_GTR said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Just thought it was worth me putting in a little message since I was made aware of this thread earlier.
> 
> ...


----------



## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

indigo-gt said:


> Mr Radley says not to bend over


He asked me to give him head .... or was it heads

Motec ecu will be here by the end of the week. Build thread should be interesting:thumbsup:


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

Tim Radley said:


> He asked me to give him head .... or was it heads
> 
> Motec ecu will be here by the end of the week. Build thread should be interesting:thumbsup:


M1?


----------



## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

indigo-gt said:


> M1?


Of course :thumbsup:


----------



## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Donbona said:


> Welcome Johnny, I saw your vids previous to this thread... 2 of my mates who both own white TTRS verts told me about you... One of them you defo know.
> Crazy build though... You gonna throw that much money into the GTR?


Black Chris and white Chris? You had the supercharged m3?


----------



## MattGTR750 (Apr 26, 2012)

Vmaxxxvernon McGhie your getting gapped hard!


----------



## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Not by you 

Haha I'm looking forward to the next time we all go for a drive enjoying the cars


----------



## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

VmaxxVernon said:


> Black Chris and white Chris? You had the supercharged m3?


Yup!!


----------



## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

LEO-RS said:


> Video below of a stage 3 tuned TTRS vs a stage 1 tuned MY11 GTR
> 
> Both cars belong to the same owner and a series of videos were shot at Bruntingthorpe a couple of days ago. TTRS is a manual transmission car with 660/1350Kg vs GTR 600/1750kg
> 
> ...


Leo, not bothered about the TTRS vs. GT-R debate, thought it was done to death 2yrs back, however am interested in your F10 M5 experiences. I've one on order, due to arrive in 7 weeks, albeit the slightly upgraded LCi model.

What problems have you had as not read about any known issues on the relevant forums & if anything this new M5 appears far more bulletproof tan either of the cars you're comparing above?


----------



## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Did you miss the bit where it blew up lol?

There was a bulletin by BMW which requested M5 owners to stop driving their cars due to a faulty part within the engine also when it was newish


----------



## Peter R35 Gt-R (Jun 13, 2011)

Watch APR's Stage 3 TT-RS Decimate a Nissan GTR in a Drag Race | The Smoking Tire


----------



## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

VmaxxVernon said:


> Did you miss the bit where it blew up lol?
> 
> There was a bulletin by BMW which requested M5 owners to stop driving their cars due to a faulty part within the engine also when it was newish


Lets be honest, every chance you're over exaggerating a touch as i'd be surprised if the engine blew up given Leo states engine failure which could cover a multitude of scenarios. But would like to know more?

I had the SMG servo fail on my E60 M5 which was seen as a gearbox failure, however i decided to refrain from stating it blew up. Also had a transmission failure on my C5 RS6 but again hardly blowing up.

Not heard of any such recall notice on early F10 M5's so would be interested in hearing about it??

All cars have mechanical issues, it's the nature of the beast & GT-R's themselves have several known issues, as do TT's.


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

w8pmc said:


> Lets be honest, every chance you're over exaggerating a touch as i'd be surprised if the engine blew up given Leo states engine failure which could cover a multitude of scenarios. But would like to know more?
> 
> I had the SMG servo fail on my E60 M5 which was seen as a gearbox failure, however i decided to refrain from stating it blew up. Also had a transmission failure on my C5 RS6 but again hardly blowing up.
> 
> ...


Paul, I had a manufacturing defect in one of the rods (That's all I got told) Loud bang and crunch from the engine, oil spill underneath. Car was tuned, took the best part of 2 months for a replacement engine. Car was a brand spanker with less than 1000m. As far as I'm aware there was an issue with the oil pumps on the F10 model but believe that should have been resolved on 2013/14 models. Don't want to go into too much detail mate, the internet has eyes and engines and gearboxes cost a fortune. I wouldn't worry about it mate, had a look around and couldn't find any similar related failures.


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

Ohhh another TTRS thread how sweet.

Audi is for wannbe rich boys with no interest or understanding of motorsports. The only car that can compete against the GTR from Audi on a track is the R8 V10. . . . . Periode.

The Audi TT will never be a real super car, even if you throw a 10 k gearbox and 350 hp small engine inside, do to the fact that its chassis is crap and layout so avarage as its understeering. Even the unrefined quattro is just build for maximum straight line acceleration like the Golf R is, no real use in highspeed cornering on a real track like Suzuka for exemple. 
An R8 can compete against the GTR because it can go in to a highspeed corners with maximum speed, stay with max stability in the apex and can even accelerate out of the corner sooner as any TTRS can ever do. . . . GTR and R8 V 10 can do this because they are build to do this, which usually only GT500 cars can do to their wide wheel base and flat aerodynamics ( so they don't need AWD).

What the TTRS will do is either understeer or grip so much while slowing down the car. . . . So nothing more then avarage.

The many times I went to Suzuka watching TTRS run against most other cars, its over, once balance inside high speed cornering is needed, even a well set up S2000 will destroy it in cornering.


And before the fan boys come here with their Nuerburgring achievements, I know that the TTRS is fast and easy to handle, thats why an avarage driver will probably go faster around then the same experienced guy in a RWD car like a Porsche or M3. Plus the TTRS is really fun and neck breaking in straight line accel, no doubt.

Would love to have a convertible TTRS, so easy and safe to drive and call out blasting acceleration with no brain cells needed, but would not measure myself on track against higher technology


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

gtrlux said:


> Audi is for wannbe rich boys with no interest or understanding of motorsports.


:chuckle:


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

LEO-RS said:


> Paul, I had a manufacturing defect in one of the rods (That's all I got told) Loud bang and crunch from the engine, oil spill underneath. Car was tuned, took the best part of 2 months for a replacement engine. Car was a brand spanker with less than 1000m. As far as I'm aware there was an issue with the oil pumps on the F10 model but believe that should have been resolved on 2013/14 models. Don't want to go into too much detail mate, the internet has eyes and engines and gearboxes cost a fortune. I wouldn't worry about it mate, had a look around and couldn't find any similar related failures.


Hi Leo, thanks for that. Does sound like a bad failure & hopefully a one off as i trawled the F10 M5 forums looking for any known issues before ordering mine but found none.

If possible as agree that Forums have ears, could you drop me a line on: [email protected] to discuss offline?


Paul


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

gtrlux said:


> Audi is for wannbe rich boys with no interest or understanding of motorsports.





JCR_GTR said:


> :chuckle:


This could end in tears.

opcorn:


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

gtrlux said:


> Audi is for wannbe rich boys with no interest or understanding of motorsports.


In the main, there is a degree of truth to that. Badge whores and posers will queue up for brand and image. The joy of the GTR is it does not have a badge. No one will boast they own a Nissan. I have known people who drive TT's, M3's and 911's who are not car enthusiasts - they simply own them to say they own them. The joy of the GTR is that it is a statement of enthusiasm for cars as no average car owner is going to blow 40 to 75k on a fast Nissan when they could own a German w&nk wagon.

Of course, I am not saying there are no enthusiasts that own German cars - but there are a lot of the 'me too' brigade involved.


----------



## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Audi was winning trophies in top level Motorsport long before the Datsun 240z and skylines where even a twinkle in Nissan founders eye.

But anyway let's carry on with thinking Nissan is best at everything, this is the GTROC.

And don't bring up the VLN, that wasn't nissans fault


----------



## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

Would love to have a convertible TTRS, so easy and safe to drive and call out blasting acceleration with no brain cells needed, but would not measure myself on track against higher technology



> Would love to have a convertible TTRS, so easy and safe to drive and call out blasting acceleration with no brain cells needed, but would not measure myself on track against higher technology


But you drive a GTR???? Lmao for a minute there I thought maybe you owned a caterham or a radical


Makes one wonder how the TT does so well in race series, against so called purpose built super cars.

But we should ignore gtrlux as he doesn't even seem to know the difference between Quattro and Haldex.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

VmaxxVernon,

Your location says 650r and TTRS - can you confirm which you own/drive? You don't post like a GTR owner.

Newreg, have to say I resent the comments you posted about german car drivers. As a brand I would say that audi is my absolute favourite. I love the GTR for what it is and does, but in terms of an all round package, audi really know how to put a car together. It isn't the last work in handling, but the R8 proves that they know how to make a car handle and be enjoyable. An R8 is not for me as modding it will cripple its value. That doesn't stop me from being a huge fan of the rest of the range. 

Put simply, audis are just lovely cars to be in. No one designs a better cockpit using better materials. The feel good factor of their interiors at their price point is imho second to none. BMW could learn a thing or too, but mercedes are not far behind. Add in their insistence on supporting 4wd more than any other manufacturer.

They also know how to design the outside of cars - I still believe the A5 is one of the best looking cars of all time. I only sold mine as it didn't offer enough distinction from the GTR - hence buying the TTS roadster for fun, and the Q5 for family duty.

The result is that I have a car for all circumstances that each individually is capable of putting a huge smile on my face.

As I said before, this comparison is only coming about because the TTRS is so capable in a drag race and the GTR is the obvious scalp for it to try to take. We all know it's a stupid comparison as 99% of TTRSs will have their arse handed to them by 99% of GTRs. This video only exists because it's one of the exceptions.

I'm fairly confident the video wouldn't have caused this thread if the fastest TTRS was lined up against even a moderately tuned GTR.


----------



## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

Adamantium said:


> VmaxxVernon,
> 
> Your location says 650r and TTRS - can you confirm which you own/drive? You don't post like a GTR owner.
> 
> ...


Whats happened to the M3? Never knew you had a TT. You keep these quiet


----------



## Grimson (Aug 30, 2011)

Don't forget this video where the Audi A1 is also without doubt better than a GTR around a track.

Nissan GT-R vs Audi A1 quattro - autocar.co.uk - YouTube


----------



## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

Previous to my current GTR I owned a 2008 M3 Vert with a supercharger (620bhp) while it was fun it was also a pain in the ass with that sort of power as it wasn't very reliable, also being a vert handling was compromised. I bought the GTR because I wanted the power and handling and the help as I am not a great track driver. The GTR ticked most of the boxes. As I said before I have also had the pleasure of ragging a TTRS vert in the wet and it handled beautifully. The interior is very well thought out too. They are all great cars depending on what your needs and wants are.


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

Now starting to regret spunking my cash into a German w&nk tank. Hope i can cancel my order:chairshot

TBH, image aside (my personal opinion) i've always thought highly of the TTRS & if we didn't have a baby due in Jan i'd unlikely be swapping the wifes Q5 for an SQ5 as was pushing her towards a TTRS, however we again need the space so SQ5 it is.

My preference has often been a car that does everything very well rather than a car that does a couple of things perfectly. Hence why i've owned Audi RS's & BMW M's, with a new M5 inbound for the end of Oct. With these cars also now getting cheaper to run (i'm getting old now), they really do tick many boxes & my gripe with the GT-R is it's now new OTR price as at £75k alot of other cars are in the price bracket, however at £50-59K (i had a MY10), they represented a massive bang for the buck.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I deliberated over sq5 but just couldnt see the point. the 3.0 tdi is almost as fast, much better on fuel, and gets a proper twin clutch box instead of a slush box. Got to give the SQ5 kudos for its looks though - not so keen on the 21" wheels.

Flynn, the M3 was on loan to me whilst the GTR is at litchfields. I dropped it off very early as I wasn't going to have another chance to get it to them before my holiday so ended up having it for about 10 weeks.

It went yesterday, and I ended up really sorry to see it go.

I bought the TTS last week!


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

Adamantium said:


> I deliberated over sq5 but just couldnt see the point. the 3.0 tdi is almost as fast, much better on fuel, and gets a proper twin clutch box instead of a slush box. Got to give the SQ5 kudos for its looks though - not so keen on the 21" wheels.
> 
> Flynn, the M3 was on loan to me whilst the GTR is at litchfields. I dropped it off very early as I wasn't going to have another chance to get it to them before my holiday so ended up having it for about 10 weeks.
> 
> ...


I found the SQ5 considerably quicker than the 3.0tdi as the new Bi-Turbo in the SQ5 is a gem of an engine. If driven in a similar fashion the mpg is near identical i read, however i could see the SQ5 being driven harder. Can see much giggling during traffic light GP's in that car.

Not going for the 21" wheels & all told it's just a much better package than the wifes current Q5, as better on fuel, much better on road performance & handling in a package no more expensive than she paid for her current car.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

same engine, just a bi-turbo.

I couldn't get past the gearbox.

I figured low 6s to 60 was plenty fast enough for her, and when I am driving it, the kids will be in the back. If not then chances are I'd be in the TT or the GTR.


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> Newreg, have to say I resent the comments you posted about german car drivers.


You must have missed the bit where I said:

'Of course, I am not saying there are no enthusiasts that own German cars.'

They do have something of a reputation though, and not without good reason. The existence of this thread kind of justifies it and is a prime example of the 'me too' brigade that I refer to.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

Adamantium said:


> I deliberated over sq5 but just couldnt see the point. the 3.0 tdi is almost as fast, much better on fuel, and gets a proper twin clutch box instead of a slush box. Got to give the SQ5 kudos for its looks though - not so keen on the 21" wheels.
> 
> Flynn, the M3 was on loan to me whilst the GTR is at litchfields. I dropped it off very early as I wasn't going to have another chance to get it to them before my holiday so ended up having it for about 10 weeks.
> 
> ...


What do you think to the TTRS. I do like the look of them, and they still have the scope to be "messed" about with 

How do the S-tronic boxes handle more power. Are they up too the job?


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## OldBob (Oct 18, 2010)

^ Cue Leo...


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

OldBob said:


> ^ Cue Leo...


Haha

Flynn, in answer to your question, my TTRS was abused, about 250 launches on my S-tronic box and it never missed a beat. Majority of them at the dragstrip. I would say reliability was excellent.

This was one of my better runs, 60 in 3.0, 100 in 7.1 and managed the 1/4 in 11.3. Car only had a remap and a decat *(425bhp)* so less than £750 spent on it.






Cheap as chips to run, 35-38mpg at 75mph on cruise control, long term average over 20k or so was just over 26mpg. £260 to tax, about the same again on insurance so it is an attractive purchase if you want the performance above with reasonable running costs. I only got rid due to 3 kiddies all getting too big for my TTRS/A1, I then swapped out for an M5/A4 for more space.

Adam, I did have a look at the SQ5 too as by the time I specced up a Q5 with the goodies, it was a touch over £40k, however, as it is going to be a daily driver, I was needing the best possible fuel economy and the temptation with the bi-turbo would be to tune so instead of going down that path I just ordered up the well specced Q5. Been waiting on it the best part of 4 months already and not scheduled for delivery until end of next month. Hope to get rid of my M5 around the same time for a MY11 GTR and tune it with a Stage 4 SVM, very similar choices to yourself.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

LEO-RS said:


> Haha
> 
> Flynn, in answer to your question, my TTRS was abused, about 250 launches on my S-tronic box and it never missed a beat. Majority of them at the dragstrip. I would say reliability was excellent
> 
> ...


#

Does the s tronic box limit the torque like on the M3?


----------



## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

FLYNN said:


> #
> 
> Does the s tronic box limit the torque like on the M3?


Nope, not at full bolt on Stage 2 level tuning anyway. Big turbo applications, perhaps.


----------



## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

FLYNN said:


> #
> 
> Does the s tronic box limit the torque like on the M3?


This is the big issue I had with pushing over 600bhp through the M3s DCT.
Drove me nuts!


----------



## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

LEO-RS said:


> Nope, not at full bolt on Stage 2 level tuning anyway. Big turbo applications, perhaps.


Just spoke with someone at Statllers, and they've told me they dont. Bigger turbo onto of stage 2 mods and you're seeing stage 4 GTR performance. 

Might be an option....then again, might not


----------



## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

Donbona said:


> This is the big issue I had with pushing over 600bhp through the M3s DCT.
> Drove me nuts!


Mines going today. Trading in for either a ML300, which is the sensible option, or a C63 estate, which isn't


----------



## OldBob (Oct 18, 2010)

^ No RS6 avant as an alternative? Sat and played in a new one recently (didn't drive it yet though), lovely car with nice sound too.


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

OldBob said:


> ^ No RS6 avant as an alternative? Sat and played in a new one recently (didn't drive it yet though), lovely car with nice sound too.


Test drove one last week & it's an amazing car & unimaginable how well it hides it's weight. Would have been signing for one had they launched a Saloon, however i've no need for an Estate car & not a fan of the looks.

Defo provided a very similar straight line speed feeling to the GT-R.


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## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

OldBob said:


> ^ No RS6 avant as an alternative? Sat and played in a new one recently (didn't drive it yet though), lovely car with nice sound too.


Im trying to budget around 20k ish. Ive looked that them, but cant justify another 30k + sat outside next to a GTR.

Havin just read what Ive wrote, I think Ive just talked myself out of the c63 as well :/


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

Adamantium said:


> same engine, just a bi-turbo.
> 
> I couldn't get past the gearbox.
> 
> I figured low 6s to 60 was plenty fast enough for her, and when I am driving it, the kids will be in the back. If not then chances are I'd be in the TT or the GTR.


I really rated the box & got the very same unit in my A8. I'm sure the newer S-Tronic's have been improved through software enhancements, however we've the 7 Speed S-Tronic in the wife's existing Q5 S-Line & it really is not what i'd call a great transmission & if anything for smoothness & responsiveness the 8 Speed Tip is better.

Less than 3mpg difference between the BiTDi in the SQ5 & the standard 3.0TDi but the SQ5 will hit 62 in 5.1sec. Just about to commence my hunt for one to arrive before Xmas after being told to expect an earliest delivery of Easter 2014


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

The wait put me off too. I first ordered ours in may 2012. Eventually took delivery in march. No way on earth I was going to wait around again for the SQ5.

The tip is always going to be smoother, there's nothing smoother than a torque converter but I just hate the antiquated technology. The idea of a twin clutch sits much better with me as it isn't throwing away power all the time.

That said, I can't imagine how the 7 speed s-tronic in ours could be any better, the changes are completely seemless.

I don't really understand why the SQ5 is as much faster as it is. If I were really bothered I would contemplate a remap, but as said above, I don't trust the wife with it as it is. It's also been keyed twice now, and i wonder if it might fair even worse as an SQ5.

Either way, it's going to be lovely.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

LEO-RS said:


> Hope to get rid of my M5 around the same time for a MY11 GTR and tune it with a Stage 4 SVM, very similar choices to yourself.


Almost very similar - but not quite.

Flynn, I didn't heavily research the TTS (note, not TTRS) before buying it. I know the car well and its underpinnings. I know it's not going to set the world on fire.

I actually only wanted a roadster quattro, 4wd for winter and convertible to add variety to the stable and please the wife. For some reason though, there were just no 2.0 tfsi quattros for sale. There were plenty of 3.2s but the engine is old, drinks heavily and I refuse to pay another £500 a year in road tax. 2.0tfsi quattros just didnt come up, but this TTS did and the spec was great. I knocked the price down heavily as it was bought with some seemingly major issues, which I have since fixed for much less than I expected.


----------



## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

Used to have a Stage 1 TTS manual. Fun car


----------



## HSimon (Jun 4, 2008)

Had a TT RS S-Tronic for a while, dont underestimate them, even as standard. On some roads, even as standard, i wouldnt like to say which car, TT RS or GT-R would be quicker.


----------



## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

HSimon said:


> Had a TT RS S-Tronic for a while, dont underestimate them, even as standard. On some roads, even as standard, i wouldnt like to say which car, TT RS or GT-R would be quicker.


Nice to have a realistic view on this. Most people on here think that the GTR is quicker than everything. Which just isn't true


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

FLYNN said:


> Nice to have a realistic view on this. Most people on here think that the GTR is quicker than everything. Which just isn't true


Well it isn't quicker than a P1.

That said, all cars in its price bracket up to £100,000 it is quicker.


----------



## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

Trev said:


> Well it isn't quicker than a P1.
> 
> That said, all cars in its price bracket up to £100,000 it is quicker.


No it isnt.

This is exactly what I mean. The blinkered view of the GTR owner

Its quicker in certain circumstances, but not all.

It would seem people think a quick car is numbers on a piece of paper


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I think people forget that it's a big fat heavy car.
On a B road blat a smaller car can be quicker, because it can take better lines through the corners etc...


----------



## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

CT17 said:


> I think people forget that it's a big fat heavy car.
> On a B road blat a smaller car can be quicker, because it can take better lines through the corners etc...


On a B road, an Evo is quicker than a GTR. One area where I miss my old Evo is slamming through B roads. The GTR is too fat and too heavy to be able to slingshot through tight twisty roads with any degree of efficiency but then that is not what it was built for whereas the Evo was.

In a straight line or round tracks with lots of sweeping corners, I would say the GTR is the quickest thing money can buy up to £100,000 and probably quite a bit more than that, excluding tracks focused cars like Catarhams, Atoms etc.

Of course, I am talking about stock performance.


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

FLYNN said:


> No it isnt.
> 
> This is exactly what I mean. The blinkered view of the GTR owner
> 
> ...


I own a proper GTR mate, the R32.

Not blinkered, just facts, overall (not every circumstance) the new GTR is quicker.


----------



## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

Trev said:


> I own a proper GTR mate, the R32.
> 
> Not blinkered, just facts, overall (not every circumstance) the new GTR is quicker.


You own a 23 year old Skyline.


----------



## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

FLYNN said:


> No it isnt.
> 
> This is exactly what I mean. The blinkered view of the GTR owner
> 
> ...


Certainly not my view fella. Total realist and aware that there's plenty out there that will give it a good run for its money round some bumpy country roads. 

I like to hoon with mates and a few have Supercars and the others have modded hot hatches. Do either [email protected] on the other down our usual route? Nope not at all, well unless there's a big long straight lol. Joking aside, the Mk1 Focus RS ((albeit modded) that comes out on every run and leads sets a blinding pace and I never feel like I'm being held up. I might not be a driving god, but I can pedal a motor when needed so its not a case of driving miss Daisey lol. Either way on your average british twistie road most performance cars will stay in touch with one another. Might be different on the drag/race track but in Real world situations that's the truth. Well that's my experience anyway 

I like all motors and respect many other marques. Just wish I had a lot of many to have a big collection. But for now the GTR dos the best job of ticking all my boxes. It can be a tourer or an absolutely fun hoon mobile :thumbsup: well that's just until I earn enough pennies to get a 991 GT3 or Macca MP4, oh and an atom. Perhaps a drift motor also lol.


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

FLYNN said:


> You own a 23 year old Skyline.


Actually, seeing as you have an attitude it's actually 20 years old this year (1993).

Secondly, it's still a GTR.


----------



## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

I think you'll find the attitude started with this comment



Trev said:


> I own a proper GTR mate, the R32.


I pointed out it was a old skyline. Just posting "facts" that you seem so fond of.


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

FLYNN said:


> No it isnt.
> 
> This is exactly what I mean. The blinkered view of the GTR owner


Would have said it was here the attitude started.

Anyway "new GTR" owner, lets not bicker!


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Guys, I think it's GT-R.
Not GTR.

 :chuckle:

:flame:


After all this time, you'd think people would know...


----------



## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

CT17 said:


> Guys, I think it's GT-R.
> Not GTR.
> 
> :chuckle:
> ...


:clap::thumbsup:

Nice that someone finally appreciates the difference


----------



## Nedzilla (Feb 10, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about it. Most people i know still call them skylines!


----------



## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

CT17 said:


> Guys, I think it's GT-R.
> Not GTR.
> 
> :chuckle:
> ...


Lmao, always forget that  anyway, you're getting out of yours


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

CT17 said:


> Guys, I think it's GT-R.
> Not GTR.
> 
> :chuckle:
> ...


Whatever Banana man! 

Lol!


----------



## lawsy (Feb 25, 2009)

I took my Gtr down a big long b road from castle Combe to motorway and it was horrendous. Our 300k mile c class would have been more compliant :chairshot


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

saucyboy said:


> Lmao, always forget that  anyway, you're getting out of yours


I am out of it, took a deposit today. :bawling:


----------



## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

CT17 said:


> I am out of it, took a deposit today. :bawling:


I give it 6 months


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Stevie76 said:


> I give it 6 months


But I've already ordered the TT-RS.


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Not really!


----------



## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

CT17 said:


> But I've already ordered the TT-RS.


:clap:


----------



## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Lol lol, fantastic. 

CT mate, sorry to see the Banana mobile go. At least you have a few toys left to play with. I mean, I'm sure the 400 brake Skoda City car will fill the gap 

You planning on getting the R36 in a couple of years or where ever released?


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

saucyboy said:


> Lol lol, fantastic.
> 
> CT mate, sorry to see the Banana mobile go. At least you have a few toys left to play with. I mean, I'm sure the 400 brake Skoda City car will fill the gap
> 
> You planning on getting the R36 in a couple of years or where ever released?


Not sure where I go from here Saucy with regards to the GT-R.

As you know I've got that Skoda City car with 400bhp/tonne coming for next year and I've also been bitten by the EV bug.
Enjoying the LEAF and considering going for a Tesla Model S next year. (I've had a deposit down since Dec 2012)

I plan to bring the city car along to some GTROC track days as I'll be a member and catch up with the guys.

If the business continues to do well I'll probably be tempted by a later R35 in the future, like a Nismo if it's half decent and not just a daft seats out for £10k special like the Track Pack.

Who knows, I might miss the attention. :runaway:


----------



## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

The only way is 991 Turbo S


----------



## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

The new 991 GT3!!!!


----------



## Real Thing (Feb 28, 2008)

FLYNN said:


> Nice to have a realistic view on this. Most people on here think that the GTR is quicker than everything. Which just isn't true


I recently sold my 12 MY GT-R (4th GT-R I've owned) and have just purchased a TT-RS Plus S-Tronic find the TT nippier round Town as it just so much smaller. Economy even when heavy on the Gas never drops below the low 20s (Great all round package straight out the Box imo if you can get over the Hairdresser image) but I don't think I would ever consider it to be in the same league as a GT-R although at nearly £25K less than a GT-R it is quite a performance bargain


----------



## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Real Thing said:


> I recently sold my 12 MY GT-R (4th GT-R I've owned) and have just purchased a TT-RS Plus S-Tronic find the TT nippier round Town as it just so much smaller. Economy even when heavy on the Gas never drops below the low 20s (Great all round package straight out the Box imo if you can get over the Hairdresser image) but I don't think I would ever consider it to be in the same league as a GT-R although at nearly £25K less than a GT-R it is quite a performance bargain


I'm half sure its a great car but don't think I could ever get over the image thing:nervous:


----------



## Real Thing (Feb 28, 2008)

Stevie76 said:


> I'm half sure its a great car but don't think I could ever get over the image thing:nervous:


My only defence for the RS is that as it has a fixed rear spoiler I do feel a bit more butch lol.


----------



## SamboGrove (Jun 27, 2010)

Exactly my thoughts Stevie. You can't argue with the performance or the price. It's just got a girly image problem which I definately couldn't deal with. I'll stick with my manly GT-R thanks.


----------



## willgts (Jul 17, 2004)

Audi RS3 a good compromise? I have had naughty thoughts about chopping in my daily driver for one.


----------



## FLYNN (Oct 6, 2006)

For people so concerned about the image of car, seems strange to me that we are all driving around in Nissans.

I personally couldn't care what other people think of a particular cars, or what image that portrays. I certainly wouldn't be driving around in a nissan if I did.

A good car is a good car and that includes TT RS. Take the MX5 for instance. A great car, but stigmatised by people who like to pigeon hole everything


----------



## Real Thing (Feb 28, 2008)

willgts said:


> Audi RS3 a good compromise? I have had naughty thoughts about chopping in my daily driver for one.


Prefer the Driving position of the TT plus the RS3 would need a remap to just equal the TT-RS Plus performance and although quite economical is quite a bit more thirsty than the TT due to it's heavier weight I owned one as the family bus along with the GT-R and kept it for nearly a year which is a record for me so shows how much I enjoyed it although it spent nearly a month in Audi Leicester having a New Engine fitted and I've since learnt that the New owner has just had a New Gearbox fitted under warranty which makes me very cautious about moding new Cars. I'm Replacing the RS3 with a A45 AMG that I'm collecting on Monday so think that could be a better choice/compromise.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

FLYNN said:


> For people so concerned about the image of car, seems strange to me that we are all driving around in Nissans.
> 
> I personally couldn't care what other people think of a particular cars, or what image that portrays. I certainly wouldn't be driving around in a nissan if I did.
> 
> A good car is a good car and that includes TT RS. Take the MX5 for instance. A great car, but stigmatised by people who like to pigeon hole everything


Totally agree with Flynn on all counts. Strikes as sad to avoid buying something you really like because of the temporary thoughts it puts into the heads f other people.

I've had two tts and two mx5s, four nissans, five evos, and never gave a flying [email protected] about other people's opinions. 

People can think what they like, always have, always will. Nothing anyone else can do about that.

Now if I didn't like the image tat would be a problem. I woke up one day and looked at the 22B with its garish blue paintwork and gold wheels and I just stopped liking it, instantly. It was sold within a week.


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

The reason I wouldn't buy a TT isn't the image.

It's the lack of headroom (my hair brushes the roof lining), the fairly boring drive I find most Audis have and and the fact I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money on a car that comes with a left hand drive centre console, so the handbrake is over by the passenger.

I mean it's over £40,000 FFS, why do I have to touch my mate's leg to use the handbrake?


----------



## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

CT17 said:


> I mean it's over £40,000 FFS, why do I have to touch my mate's leg to use the handbrake?


It's a useful feature for those of us that prefer to drive around with a lady in the passenger seat


----------



## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

CT17 said:


> I mean it's over £40,000 FFS, why do I have to touch my mate's leg to use the handbrake?


Some people find that a bonus feature :chuckle:


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Tim Radley said:


> It's a useful feature for those of us that prefer to drive around with a lady in the passenger seat


See, you've just blown the stereotype wide open there! :chuckle:


----------



## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

CT17 said:


> I mean it's over £40,000 FFS, why do I have to touch my mate's leg to use the handbrake?


Surely, driving a TT, you mean your 'partner'?


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm not entirely sure I get the LHD centre console thing.

To me it feels like it's correct for RHD and if anything wrong for LHD.

Having the handbrake on the right would make it too close for comfortable actuation with the left arm, and also the design is such that the console is open at the position the open fingers would occupy when reaching for the handbrake.

If it were the other way round, each time I reach for the handbrake hitting my fingers and scratching my nails on the enclosed area.


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

VmaxxVernon said:


> Audi was winning trophies in top level Motorsport long before the Datsun 240z and skylines where even a twinkle in Nissan founders eye.
> 
> But anyway let's carry on with thinking Nissan is best at everything, this is the GTROC.
> 
> And don't bring up the VLN, that wasn't nissans fault


Well you need a little reality check here, Audi spend more time building crap while staying out of motorsports then doing anything comparable to Datsun- Nissan racing history. After WW2 DKW and Auto Union were uterly crap against Porsche, BMW in building sports cars until 65 when Audi was born . . . . How can you compare an Audi100, the only valuable sports car they build in the 70. against japanese cars like the Prince Kpgc10/110 or the Fairlady or against a Toyota2000gt or even Mitsubishi galant? 

The quattro was a nice achievement and basicly showed how advanced west germany was in 1980 but instead of taking off they fell asleep, loosing a 10 year gap between japanese manufatures, who let germany look like 1890 rather then actual 1990 when cars like the R32, Z32, NSX, Soarer, RX7 and later premium cars like the LS came out.

Of course if you are a UK germany fan boy you don't pay attention to all this as a result of the japan bashing brainwashing culture that still prevails today in europe to protect the industry.


Then for the image thing: Audi is as fake as it gets, refinement my ass, in 1993 when the Lexus LS400 came out that was the benchmark for any premium car and manufaturing process, Audi was utterly backward so was BMW or Benz . . . Even not to speak about Jags or Rolls who were still living in the 70. in terms of engineering. From 1995 on of course Audi made sleek and good looking interiors and added high power engines to boost image, but all this was more marketing then actual quality, german reliability lists of these times confirm this with dramatic problems. By then Toyota and Lexus were allready building the assembly lines of the future( now). Only in 2002 with the D3 platform and consequent assembly lines at Wolfsburg, did Audi and VW nearly close the gap in engineering and assembling quality with Lexus and Benz. 

To make it short, Audi in 2013 just happen to overcome its reliability problems of the last 30 years, they build a fabulous car the R8 V10 ( thought with unreliable and underperforming start with the first gen. R8) and made a good marketing joke while boosting an avarage engineered TT with great technology and selling it for stupid much money. . . . Audi will never build silent well engieered cars like Lexus, never build race pedigree balanced cars like BMW or Infiniti. . . . All you get is image and marketing, nicely packed together so you can feel great like driving a Jag.

So everyone take a chill pill, foot of the throttle before your Audi oversteers in a tree


----------



## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

I do love these debates as opinions are like @rseholes, every ****er has one

I had 2 back to back TT's (MK1's) back in 2001/2 & thought they were great cars for what i needed & liked back then.

The TTRS is a tour de force on what a small sports car can do, however it isn't & never likely will be a market competitor to the R35 GT-R as their strengths & weaknesses are so very different & of course with the current GT-R the price point is very distant too.

If we didn't have a big dog & another yoof on the way the TTRS would have been a very likely stablemate to my incoming F10 M5, as it would have been the wife's daily driver & my weekend toy, however this won't work for us so the SQ5 will likely be the 2nd car instead.

If the current MY of GT-R was back down at £60k where the MY10 was then i'd possibly have returned to Nissan, but it's hard to ignore the current financial incentives on certain performance Saloons such as the F10 M5 & E63 AMG so for probably less than 2/3rds of the initial/monthly outlay & half the running costs i can get a £75k super saloon that wouldn't be overly embarrassed by the R35, however can transport me in an ubber modern & luxurious cabin whilst averaging 30mpg.

I still think the GT-R is the overall performance bargain of the decade when it was £50-60K & it can't really be bettered (stock) until you're North of £100k, however my worry is with the prices creeping ever higher for only marginal improvements, this is starting to be tarnished. Still miss mine would i'll be waiting until the R36 i think before i'd return.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

agreed,

audi know nothing about engineering. 

Audi Motorsport Blog: Audi Le Mans legacy: Fourteen years of success 1999-2012

that said, 24 hr racing doesn't really count as everyone knows it's not exactly hard on the car.


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

Adamantium said:


> agreed,
> 
> audi know nothing about engineering.
> 
> ...


Lemans is not Audi as much as F1 is not Renault or Inifiniti.
Rally quattro tech in 84 however flowed in to production so flowed Rally tech in to Mitsubishi lancer and Sti Impreza diffs, engines and chassis.

Lemans is like premium pastry: Every premium chef can bake you the most delicious, ultimate goergous looking and styled cake for the tree guests in his 3 michelin star restaurant as money is no object, . . . He will uterly produce crap when he needs to satisfy 1500 customers in 6 different premium pastry salons every day of the year, organizing a production that can produce that much on the maximum level while being profitable and paying staff producing.


----------



## car killer (Oct 27, 2005)

If a porsche BOXTER gets labled a POOR MANS PORSCHE. 
Is a audi TT labeled a POOR MANS AUDI 
LOL


----------



## lawsy (Feb 25, 2009)

I agree with a lot you say, except the bull sheite about the Audi over steering into a tree, 


It would more likely to understeer :flame:




gtrlux said:


> Well you need a little reality check here, Audi spend more time building crap while staying out of motorsports then doing anything comparable to Datsun- Nissan racing history. After WW2 DKW and Auto Union were uterly crap against Porsche, BMW in building sports cars until 65 when Audi was born . . . . How can you compare an Audi100, the only valuable sports car they build in the 70. against japanese cars like the Prince Kpgc10/110 or the Fairlady or against a Toyota2000gt or even Mitsubishi galant?
> 
> The quattro was a nice achievement and basicly showed how advanced west germany was in 1980 but instead of taking off they fell asleep, loosing a 10 year gap between japanese manufatures, who let germany look like 1890 rather then actual 1990 when cars like the R32, Z32, NSX, Soarer, RX7 and later premium cars like the LS came out.
> 
> ...


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2006)

lawsy said:


> I agree with a lot you say, except the bull sheite about the Audi over steering into a tree,
> 
> 
> It would more likely to understeer :flame:


Lol this is true. I had your text. Looking at some options


----------



## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

gtrlux said:


> Rally quattro tech in 84 however flowed in to production so flowed Rally tech in to Mitsubishi lancer and Sti Impreza diffs, engines and chassis.


In the same way that the switch gear from the Clio flowed into the Datsun/Renault R35:thumbsup:?


----------



## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

gtrlux said:


> Well you need a little reality check here, Audi spend more time building crap while staying out of motorsports then doing anything comparable to Datsun- Nissan racing history. After WW2 DKW and Auto Union were uterly crap against Porsche, BMW in building sports cars until 65 when Audi was born . . . . How can you compare an Audi100, the only valuable sports car they build in the 70. against japanese cars like the Prince Kpgc10/110 or the Fairlady or against a Toyota2000gt or even Mitsubishi galant?
> 
> The quattro was a nice achievement and basicly showed how advanced west germany was in 1980 but instead of taking off they fell asleep, loosing a 10 year gap between japanese manufatures, who let germany look like 1890 rather then actual 1990 when cars like the R32, Z32, NSX, Soarer, RX7 and later premium cars like the LS came out.
> 
> ...


That is hilarious!

Whilst the Fairlady was being released Audi were back home developing the biggest technological advancement in motorsport (four wheel drive), the advancement has led to the development of the DSG transmission which the rights of which were bought by Renault (among others) from Volkswagen Group to go in your beloved 35.

As for Nissan Motorsport.....what does that programme comprise of?

So far this year Audi have won LMP, GT Pro, GT AM, ELMS, ALMS all with Audi powered products!


----------



## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

Tim Radley said:


> In the same way that the switch gear from the Clio flowed into the Datsun/Renault R35:thumbsup:?


So they have copied something to go in their flagship model.....AGAIN??!! lol ;-)


----------



## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

Jeez this thread is stupid, I wish LEO would just stop posting TTRS vs GTR crap on this forum.

Both are fast cars when tuned, end of.


----------



## EF Ian (Jan 11, 2013)

Don't have anything against the TT-RS, its miles better than the previous shape TT. But I would have a GT-over it any day.


----------



## SamboGrove (Jun 27, 2010)

I disagree. I much prefer the old shape TT. The new one just looks bland to me although slightly improved in RS mode with a fixed rear wing. If it looked like a mini R8 then it might get me interested.


----------



## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

andyc said:


> Jeez this thread is stupid, I wish LEO would just stop posting TTRS vs GTR crap on this forum.
> 
> Both are fast cars when tuned, end of.


+11ty billion. 

Its a GT-R forum. If I want to read about Audis I'll join an Audi forum.

Cheers

Stu


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

erm,

much as I am staunchly in both camps here, where do you get the information about the dsg being invented by vag and sold to renault?

I've been involved in the development of those gearboxes from the very early days and don't recall having had to pay royalties to VAG for any of their tech.


----------



## HSimon (Jun 4, 2008)

Didnt Porsche build the first twin clutch gearbox yonks ago, and then didnt do anything with it for years ?.


----------



## Peter R35 Gt-R (Jun 13, 2011)

Seen in Belfast


----------



## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

HSimon said:


> Didnt Porsche build the first twin clutch gearbox yonks ago, and then didnt do anything with it for years ?.


I believe so. I don't think Audi invented 4wd or were even the first to use it in motorsport. They did make a stonking group b car and they have run some brilliant Le Mans teams. To be fair they haven't always had the best competition but that is hardly their fault.


----------



## SamboGrove (Jun 27, 2010)

Peter R35 Gt-R said:


> Seen in Belfast


Haha I've seen this before. Ridiculous!


----------



## MS33 (Jun 27, 2007)

Peter R35 Gt-R said:


> Seen in Belfast


Christ, that's ugly. uke:


----------



## ANDY400R (Mar 28, 2008)

Cris said:


> I believe so. I don't think Audi invented 4wd or were even the first to use it in motorsport.


IIRC the Jensen Interceptor FF was the first production car with four wheel drive back in the early/mid 1960s, long time before Audi used it. I think it also had a form of ABS as well, a car that was ahead of its time.


----------



## KAT (Apr 7, 2011)

Peter R35 Gt-R said:


> Seen in Belfast


Theres something similar to that here in Peterhead but its bigger, A5, S5 ??
It looks terrible anyway. 
J


----------



## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

ANDY400R said:


> IIRC the Jensen Interceptor FF was the first production car with four wheel drive back in the early/mid 1960s, long time before Audi used it. I think it also had a form of ABS as well, a car that was ahead of its time.


I have a jensen interceptor and it was indeed way ahead of its time.

The FF model was one of the first 4WD production cars and also was first in a few other options

Central locking , traction control , LSD and a form of anti lock brakes plus it was possibly one of the first few proper hatchbacks


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

lawsy said:


> I agree with a lot you say, except the bull sheite about the Audi over steering into a tree,
> 
> 
> It would more likely to understeer :flame:


Hahaha lol right you got me:bowdown1:


----------



## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

Ricky Elder said:


> That is hilarious!
> 
> Whilst the Fairlady was being released Audi were back home developing the biggest technological advancement in motorsport (four wheel drive), the advancement has led to the development of the DSG transmission which the rights of which were bought by Renault (among others) from Volkswagen Group to go in your beloved 35.
> 
> ...


Its very touchy to see that you just signed up to tell me this going through the painfull long process of inserting a username, password and the need to confirm all this via email.. . . . Lol:bowdown1:


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Ricky Elder said:


> That is hilarious!
> 
> Whilst the Fairlady was being released Audi were back home developing the biggest technological advancement in motorsport (four wheel drive), the advancement has led to the development of the DSG transmission which the rights of which were bought by Renault (among others) from Volkswagen Group to go in your beloved 35.
> 
> ...


If you are going to join a nissan forum just to tell us how special Audi are please try to get your facts somewhere near right for at least the first few of your posts

The fairlady was actually introduced in 1969 a little later than 4wd was actually introduced on production cars 

As I recall the quattro came out in the eighties a dozen years later.Audi is also often credited with being the car to have pioneered an auto box with awd - they were a dozen years late on that as well.


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

Audi didn't exist when 4WD was invented.

In 1893, before the establishment of a modern automotive industry in Britain, English engineer Bramah Joseph Diplock patented a four-wheel-drive system for a traction engine, including four-wheel steering and three differentials, which was subsequently built. The development also incorporated Bramah's Pedrail wheel system in what was one of the first four-wheel-drive automobiles to display an intentional ability to travel on challenging road surfaces. It stemmed from Bramagh's previous idea of developing an engine that would reduce the amount of damage to public roads.

Ferdinand Porsche designed and built a four-wheel-driven Electric vehicle for the k. u. k. Hofwagenfabrik Ludwig Lohner & Co. at Vienna in 1899, presented to the public during the 1900 World Exhibition at Paris. An electric hub motor at each wheel powered the vehicle. Although clumsily heavy, the vehicle proved a powerful sprinter and record-breaker in the hands of its owner E.W. Hart. Due to its unusual status the so-called Lohner-Porsche is not widely credited as the first four-wheel-driven automobile.

The first four-wheel-drive car, as well as hill-climb racer, with internal combustion engine, the Spyker 60 H.P., was presented in 1903 by Dutch brothers Jacobus and Hendrik-Jan Spijker of Amsterdam.[7][8] The two-seat sports car, which was also the first ever car equipped with a six-cylinder engine, is now an exhibit in the Louwman Collection (the former Nationaal Automobiel Museum) at the Hague in The Netherlands.

Designs for four-wheel drive in the U.S., came from the Twyford Company of Brookville, Pennsylvania in 1905, six were made there around 1906; one still exists and is displayed annually.[9] The second U.S. four-wheel-drive vehicle was built in 1908 by (what became) the Four Wheel Drive Auto Company (FWD) of Wisconsin (not to be confused with the term "FWD" as an acronym for front-wheel drive). FWD would later produce around 15,000 of its four-wheel-drive Model B trucks for the British and American armies during World War I.[10] Approximately 11,500 of the Jeffery or Nash Quad models (1913–1919) were similarly used. The Quad not only came with four-wheel drive and four-wheel brakes, but also featured four-wheel steering.[10]

The Reynolds-Alberta Museum has a four-wheel-drive "Michigan" car from about 1905 in unrestored storage. The Marmon-Herrington Company was founded in 1931 to serve a growing market for moderately priced four-wheel-drive vehicles. Marmon-Herrington specialized in converting Ford trucks to four-wheel drive and got off to a successful start by procuring contracts for military aircraft refueling trucks, 4×4 chassis for towing light weaponry,[11] commercial aircraft refueling trucks, and an order from the Iraqi Pipeline Company for what were the largest trucks ever built at the time.


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

As for the dual clutch transmission

This type of transmission was invented by Frenchman Adolphe Kégresse just before World War II but he never developed a working model. The first development of the Twin Clutch or Dual-clutch transmission started in the early part of 1980 under the guidance of Harry Webster at Automotive Products (AP), Leamington Spa with prototypes built into the Ford Fiesta Mk1, Ford Ranger & Peugeot 205. Initially, the control systems were based on purely analogue/discrete digital circuitry with patents filed in July 1981.[4] All of these early AP Twin Clutch installations featured a single dry clutch & multi-plate wet clutch. Following discussions with VW/Porsche, DCT work continued from Porsche in-house development, for Audi and Porsche racing cars later in the 1980s,[2] when computers to control the transmission became compact enough: the Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (English: dual-clutch gearbox) (PDK)[2] used in the Porsche 956[2] and 962[2]Le Mans race cars from 1983,[2] and the Audi Sport Quattro S1 rally car.[5][6]

A dual-clutch transmission eliminates the torque converter as used in conventional epicyclic-geared automatic transmissions.[1] Instead, dual-clutch transmissions that are currently on the market primarily use two oil-bathed wet multi-plate clutches, similar to the clutches used in most motorcycles, though dry clutch versions are also available.[7]

The first series production road car to be fitted with a DCT was the 2003 Volkswagen Golf Mk4 R32.[2][8][9]

As of 2009, the largest number of sales of DCTs in Western Europe are by various marques of the German Volkswagen Group,[10] though this is anticipated to lessen as other transmission makers and vehicle manufacturers make DCTs available in series production automobiles.[2][11] In 2010, on BMW Canada's website for the 3 Series Coupe, it is described both as a 7-speed double-clutch transmission and as a 7-speed automatic transmission. It is actually a dual-clutch semi-automatic.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

So development for ford initially. That's consistent with what I thought and the much early production explains why patents couldn't close the field down for others to develop.


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Thanks to donbona for being precise It is hard to say what the first full production road car was but..

Whenever it wasit had less than nothing to do with audi


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## EF Ian (Jan 11, 2013)

SamboGrove said:


> I disagree. I much prefer the old shape TT. The new one just looks bland to me although slightly improved in RS mode with a fixed rear wing. If it looked like a mini R8 then it might get me interested.


Shape wise it was ok, but dynamically it was rubbish.


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## VmaxxVernon (Sep 7, 2013)

gtrlux said:


> Well you need a little reality check here, Audi spend more time building crap while staying out of motorsports then doing anything comparable to Datsun- Nissan racing history. After WW2 DKW and Auto Union were uterly crap against Porsche, BMW in building sports cars until 65 when Audi was born . . . . How can you compare an Audi100, the only valuable sports car they build in the 70. against japanese cars like the Prince Kpgc10/110 or the Fairlady or against a Toyota2000gt or even Mitsubishi galant?
> 
> The quattro was a nice achievement and basicly showed how advanced west germany was in 1980 but instead of taking off they fell asleep, loosing a 10 year gap between japanese manufatures, who let germany look like 1890 rather then actual 1990 when cars like the R32, Z32, NSX, Soarer, RX7 and later premium cars like the LS came out.
> 
> ...


So auto union, dk and horsch aren't Audi? And let's not forget anything Nissan has done in Motorsport Audi did before them.

As for Lexus, they just look at what BMW and Mercedes where doing, and added stuff to make them look better on paper.

Mercedes has 12 speakers, Lexus comes out a year later with 14, Mercedes had 7 gears, Lexus comes out with 8. But guess what, the Mercedes is still far superior to the Lexus.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

are we really now starting a car world war?

Why are we discussing lexus and mercedes now?

This thread is over, let it die gracefully.


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

Adamantium said:


> are we really now starting a car world war?
> 
> Why are we discussing lexus and mercedes now?
> 
> This thread is over, let it die gracefully.


This ^^^


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## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

Cor someone is good at navigating wikipedia!! ;-)

First off.....half my post is a wind up at the brand snobs on here!

Yes AP developed a twin clutch gearbox 30 years but Borg Worner under license from VW and Porsche developed the DSG in both wet and dry plate clutches that has been implemented in millions of cars....that license has since been sold to BMW, PSA, Toyota and Renault Nissan. Look who is largest share holder in Borg Worner too!! ;-)

As for 4WD, I didn't say Audi first developed 4WD......I said they brought 4WD development in motorsport!

TBH I'm a little shocked at peoples attitudes, a GTR owner has come on here and shown how fast a stock GTR is against a 700bhp TTRS with 100's of hours of development and has pretty much....been told to p155 off to an Audi forum!

Come on....surely we all love cars and can handle a little banter!


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

Ricky Elder said:


> Cor someone is good at navigating wikipedia!! ;-)
> 
> First off.....half my post is a wind up at the brand snobs on here!
> 
> ...



My post wasn't a dig at you at all, just done the wiki search to see what was what so we can all chill and end the debate.
I am not a badge hoar... This is my first Jap car and previously I've had 3 different BMWs. I love the TTRS and the R8.... I have sime very close friends who own them.
So lets all chill and talk about what we love.


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## andyc (Jul 22, 2007)

Ricky Elder said:


> TBH I'm a little shocked at peoples attitudes, a GTR owner has come on here and shown how fast a stock GTR is against a 700bhp TTRS with 100's of hours of development and has pretty much....been told to p155 off to an Audi forum!
> 
> Come on....surely we all love cars and can handle a little banter!


LEO-RS has a GTR?


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## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

Donbona said:


> My post wasn't a dig at you at all, just done the wiki search to see what was what so we can all chill and end the debate.
> I am not a badge hoar... This is my first Jap car and previously I've had 3 different BMWs. I love the TTRS and the R8.... I have sime very close friends who own them.
> So lets all chill and talk about what we love.


I know mate!! All a bit of banter! ;-)

I have spent 10 years working very closely with Audi, but Ferrari still make the best cars in the world!

The GTR is very fast but very lardy! Be good to see someone change that!

GT Pro cars only have 480bhp but will be immensely quicker round say silver stone than a stock or even a stage 5 gtr.......power is nothing without control!! Lol


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

Ricky Elder said:


> Cor someone is good at navigating wikipedia!! ;-)
> 
> First off.....half my post is a wind up at the brand snobs on here!


A german car owner throwing the word 'brand snob' about?  I mean, the majority of the German car industry is built on badge snobbery and image.

I had a look at a top of the range Titanium X Mondeo the other day. The interior is stunning - as good as any low to mid range German car. A lovely car all round which will do me fine as a second car. Try getting your average BMW or Audi driver in one though....


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## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

New Reg said:


> A german car owner throwing the word 'brand snob' about?  I mean, the majority of the German car industry is built on badge snobbery and image.


I don't buy that crap mate....I own a Honda!! Lol


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

Ricky Elder said:


> I don't buy that crap mate....I own a Honda!! Lol


:chuckle::thumbsup:


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Ricky Elder said:


> I have spent 10 years working very closely with Audi, but Ferrari still make the best cars in the world!


Let's hope they make better cars than the 458 I've pulled apart at work!

Poor fit on panels, wiring left something to be desired too! :nervous:


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## LEO-RS (Mar 18, 2011)

andyc said:


> LEO-RS has a GTR?


No, not yet, I don't know if I can lower one self to be seen in a Nissan 

I'm failing to see why the video shouldn't have been posted in the GTR discussion part of the forum? Just take a deep breath, relax and go back to the first post and tell me what two cars are in the video 

The reason I posted it in the first place was purely because it was doing the rounds around the web/social media. Secondary aim of course was to stir up a little banter between fellow enthusiasts and the TT 'haters' amongst you but it was a hardly surprising outcome given it was a heavily modified TTRS with 660bhp / 1350kg vs a near stock GTR 600/1750

Think the thread died about 10 pages ago tho but I suppose it was inevitable that it would go to 15+ pages. Think about the last 5 TTRS/GTR threads have gone that way. 

I'll wait a few months before I post the next one


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## Ricky Elder (Sep 11, 2013)

Trev said:


> Let's hope they make better cars than the 458 I've pulled apart at work!
> 
> Poor fit on panels, wiring left something to be desired too! :nervous:


Yeah I know mate!

But then, drivers don't care about how they come apart.....


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