# Is Drag Racing a GTR a mug's game....



## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

As someone who has been racing at Santa Pod for quite a few seasons and been a championship runner up last year I do enjoy the racing, don't get me wrong I also enjoy seeing mates and really look forward to a day out at the pod.. 

This weekend was Rotorstock at the Pod and a round of the Japdrag series (formerly HKS series). My GTR is up and running now after melting a piston at RAF Marham in March this year. It's on a new engine and has had loads of work done to it including paint, new link ecu and loads of other mods... But at the moment it's only mapped to 1 bar which gives 560bhp at the fly and 475 ibft (I've been told to play it safe till I get the rear turbo bearing checked out). So I decided to take the car along to the Pod but not compete in this round. 

The Japdrag series streetclass has a much bigger field this year, of Supras, Skylines, RX7s and a 200sx and the times have come down with quite a few cars in the 9s with most being stripped right out to get the weight down. Almost all the cars are brought on trailers, that's not a criticism, that's sensible as you can't always expect to drive it home afterwards... 

This weekend was a fairly typical weekend, Great close racing but with a few retirements as follows: RX7 broken race gearbox, Skyline GTR broken sequential Gearbox, Skyline GTR loss of coolant possible cracked block, 200sx loss of coolant, head gasket or block etc..

Johnny McKeon won a very well deserved round this time in his RK Tuning R32 Dave Greenhalgh ran a new personal best in his R34 of 10.04 just losing out to Johnny in the semi final.

So some cars then survived perfectly but fact is components, even very expensive uprated drag components break and break quite regularly...

Most of the cars have some kind of relationship with a tuner or are run by tuners but I doubt if many of the cars have much in the way of income from sponsorship and breakages therefore usually cost serious money for the driver..

Maybe no coincidence then that the last few years has seen some of the better known racers retire or at least bow out for now, but plenty of newcomers are still coming into the sport... So I thought, maybe it's a learning curve that takes a few years to get out of your system or worse takes a few years to empty your wallet..

I'm not "cured" yet but this weekend looking on at all those drivers who suffered major breakages. I know how they felt.

9 and 10s drag racing in Jap cars is a real roller coaster of emotional highs and lows, and maybe it's only worth it if you can truly afford it, otherwise maybe it is like I say a "mugs game"


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

There's plenty of pastimes that can empty your wallet, it's just a question of how quickly you can earn the money to refill it. I've had two years of drought, earnings wise which goes some way to explaining why my car is standard.

Someone on here told me that drag racing was cheaper than track days as the brakes and tyres suffered less trauma and the engine runs for shorter periods but I'm not sure of his logic.

If you could afford to chuck endless amounts of your income at drag racing and not be worried by it, maybe you wouldn't be asking the question? Maybe you've just had enough?


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

Keep your chin up Malcolm

that's a some car you'v got there mate:thumbsup:


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

I haven't got any experience in drag racing but in my humble opinion, it's the harshest type of driving on the car I think.

You've got to launch the car and really rag it multiple times. 

Whereas at track days, you can sort of go easy at first or at your own pace. And if problems crop up, you sort of start seeing them early?

Just a newbie's perspective.


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

ooh I must have come over all melancholly, but that's not the case, I'm really pleased to be back in my car and the first thing it did when it left the garage was drive to compete at TOTB

Like I say i'm not "cured" of drag racing yet, but this weekend as I wasn't competing so I got to see a bit more of the highs and lows in the pits and it got me thinking.

Jeff's OS Giken gearbox let him down again it's every single time out it breaks for him but he still comes back for more. James' Willday's RX7 gearbox broke after waiting 5 weeks for parts from Japan the last time.. John Stocker is at a crossroads as he says himself his car is always going to struggle to get lower than a high 10 without very serious cash being thrown at it.. I don't know what caused some of the other probs so I won't comment..

RK do seem to do very well with there 32s.. without stating the bleedin obvious the lighter the weight the faster you can go with the least power.. and therefore least likelihood of breakages..

So maybe a Datsun 1200 with an RB would be more sensible than pushing a GTR to it's limits... Works on Forza lol!


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

TAZZMAXX said:


> There's plenty of pastimes that can empty your wallet, it's just a question of how quickly you can earn the money to refill it. I've had two years of drought, earnings wise which goes some way to explaining why my car is standard.
> 
> Someone on here told me that drag racing was cheaper than track days as the brakes and tyres suffered less trauma and the engine runs for shorter periods but I'm not sure of his logic.
> 
> If you could afford to chuck endless amounts of your income at drag racing and not be worried by it, maybe you wouldn't be asking the question? Maybe you've just had enough?


Well I do feel like I'd like to enjoy it for a while rather than see it back in the garage... and big rebuilds usually mean long periods without the car... I think some of it too is because it looks so nice in fresh paint... 

but if I get the rear turbo looked at in time I'll no doubt be lining up at the Japshow 


I know there are a lot of people who aren't prepared to push their cars on the strip what do they think?


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## 800bhp (Nov 11, 2010)

blue34 said:


> 9 and 10s drag racing in Jap cars is a real roller coaster of emotional highs and lows, and maybe it's only worth it if you can truly afford it, otherwise maybe it is like I say a "mugs game"


To win last year you needed a 10s car, this year you need a 9s car, next year you might need a 8s car? 

I can only imagine the cost of some of the GTR breakages, shows the limits are being reached and exceeded on a lot of components,

All motorsport is expensive, we operate on a very small buget for the year (we can't afford any more and have very little in the way of backing) and hope to compete but it's getting more and more difficult as 'teams' with more resources join the series

Don't think there's a definative answer to your question i'm afraid


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## w12 yne (Feb 25, 2009)

Im finding this 1 hard to give a answer to malcolm
I had my car built last year to race in the JDS, didnt enter the 1st and 2nd round due to having few issuse's, i havnt drag raced for over 4 year and nothing of the skyline spec. I trailered my car 3rd round due to having to take 4 wheels and tools and a gazibo, plus just incase the car broke it made it easier. Thankfully for myself i ran a 9.9 on my 7th run and came runner up for Japshow with little experience on 1.6 bar of boost and 100kilo over weight with no seat time, This weekend at Rotorstock i wasnt going to race as im currently moving house and got alot of other comitments on at the moment, racing the car was the last thing on my mind, family wanted me to race and so did the RK team, so i got Steve Kiddell to drive the car to SantaPod on sat morning i met him there with a van full of tools wheels etc etc, had a boost pipe come off, then driver error i went for 5th instead of 3rd, thank god or me and Rob Shadwell would of been very close to making contact due to coolent he had lost, then qualified with a 9.9, then lost to dave in the semi's but ran a PB of 9.8. The car is 100 kilo over weight running on pump fuel at 1.6 bar, most cars at the weekend were running race fuel and 2+bar and on the weight limit, and with alot more experience than myself, I then put the road tyres back on the car and it got driven back to essex:runaway: my car is striped out but by no means light! I guess you have good times and bad in drag racing, iv had all my bad luck off track upto now fingers crossed, i just hope it stays that way Im a privater with no sponsership at all, there might be a chance of me not making Japshow finally due to cost time etc etc, I think in your case you have a reliable car and run very consistant times with others pushing the boundrys and trying new setups can always work in your favour. keep going malcolm its great to see a used road car running in the JDS :bowdown1:


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

I agree that drag racing certainly pushes a car and it's components to the limit. The chances of catastrophic failure is high whereas on track you could probably start to notice/feel something was not right and stop or nurse the car back to pits. With drag, the very nature of the sport means your time to catch an impending failure of a component is negligible.
I'm personally not a fan of drag racing but salute the time, money and effort required to compete in the sport. I think that having transmissions blow every event would hack me off too much. Surprises me that with all the stories of tranny failures from pretty much all the usual suspects I.e. OS, HKS, trust/quaife,PPG etc that no one with big pockets would commission a transmission manufacturer to take a fresh look at GTR competition-spec granny's and improve the reliability.

TT


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

No doubt about it Wayne you are doing a brilliant job these last two rounds, and your car seems really well sorted... To do the times your doing without race fuel and high boost is pretty amazing.


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## w12 yne (Feb 25, 2009)

thanks Malcolm,

Iv always enjoyed watching the street class more than any other, iv supported and helped james willday out for years, iv seen the highs and the lows, as has been stated any kind of motorsport is expensive time consuming etc etc, but you can never take away what you do and that is run consistant 10s in a full weight car that you love to use on the road which in my eyes means more than anything!


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

tarmac terror said:


> Surprises me that with all the stories of tranny failures from pretty much all the usual suspects I.e. OS, HKS, trust/quaife,PPG etc that no one with big pockets would commission a transmission manufacturer to take a fresh look at GTR competition-spec granny's and improve the reliability.
> 
> TT


They have its called a Holinger.

Definatley a mugs game,but big respect to all who persue it.


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Andy Robinson Racing is just round the corner from me so pop in occasionally for bits and usually get chatting. 

It's interesting to listen to Andy when he says we are all doing it wrong in the street series...

He says for example that most of the after market clutches and sequential transmissions we use are NOT designed for drag racing..

Andy Robinson says you actually want a clutch to slip in drag racing, John Bradshaw knew this in his GTST... 

With triple plate clutches maybe this is one of the reasons Skyline GTR's get so many tranny failures. At least one of us has a slow release valve in the clutch to induce some slippage, but we all spin the wheels off the line and any drag pro will tell you that's not the way to do it.

Have a look at this clip of Andy Barnes launching his 34 back in when? 2005 look at how it drops and grips, this weekend all the cars spun off the line, I don't think any of the launches looked quite like that one not saying they aren't as fast as that launch but could we learn something here about avoiding breakages? Not sure but always wondered as that is such a good time with an H pattern box... and a heavy car... It's actually a very similar spec engine to mine.. LLOok at how long Andy Barnes holds first gear what's going on there?


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

> He says for example that most of the after market clutches and sequential transmissions we use are NOT designed for drag racing..
> 
> Andy Robinson says you actually want a clutch to slip in drag racing, John Bradshaw knew this in his GTST...


The only trouble you will need a crew to service the car between runs if you have a slipper clutch.

Normally reset the stack height after 1 run , gearbox out every 2/3 runs.




> but we all spin the wheels off the line and any drag pro will tell you that's not the way to do it.


Launching a turbo car is any art , some people say get the wheel speed up this helps make and keep boost others say no wheel spin , every driver/car is different , it take times to get your set up right.

When we speak to people in the US , the drivers over there do more runs before the season starts than what we do during the whole season , you need seat time to get everything right and be prepared to break your car.


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

I think it's certainly brutal on the cars and it's very very easy to see things go wrong very very quickly. The problem is when you essentially want the car to go ever faster and still be a great allrounder and I'm afraid you have to make choices or be happy with what you have. 
Drag racing is similar to other sports in that if you want to keep going faster than sooner or later you have to have the right tools for the job in terms of clutch set up, chassis and suspension etc or things will break on a regular basis. On the GTST I must have broken 20 + driveshafts before having a sit down and thinking I could spend thousands refining IRS suspension maybe to save one tenth or two or actually tub the car and go drag racing properly. Decision to tub it was made and car overnight 1.4 secs quicker and no more broken driveshafts. 
It's a difficult one Malc as your car is stunning and a perfect road car and I'm sure you don't want to start chopping it to pieces.


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## r33-sky (Sep 27, 2009)

Is Drag Racing a GTR a mug's game....?
See above post, YES, use a GTS-T.


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

trackday addict said:


> I think it's certainly brutal on the cars and it's very very easy to see things go wrong very very quickly. The problem is when you essentially want the car to go ever faster and still be a great allrounder and I'm afraid you have to make choices or be happy with what you have.
> Drag racing is similar to other sports in that if you want to keep going faster than sooner or later you have to have the right tools for the job in terms of clutch set up, chassis and suspension etc or things will break on a regular basis. On the GTST I must have broken 20 + driveshafts before having a sit down and thinking I could spend thousands refining IRS suspension maybe to save one tenth or two or actually tub the car and go drag racing properly. Decision to tub it was made and car overnight 1.4 secs quicker and no more broken driveshafts.
> It's a difficult one Malc as your car is stunning and a perfect road car and I'm sure you don't want to start chopping it to pieces.


you make a great point there..

"I'm afraid you have to make choices or be happy with what you have" 

I think that sums up where I'm at, I am happy with what I have and I wouldn't want to strip it out. I was also pretty happy with last year's results.

I will be out again but my car will stay an all rounder, jack of all trades, master of none!


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Abbey M/S said:


> The only trouble you will need a crew to service the car between runs if you have a slipper clutch.
> 
> Normally reset the stack height after 1 run , gearbox out every 2/3 runs.
> 
> ...


I guess removing the gearbox every 2/3 runs was possible in the GTST maybe as the gearbox was effectively inside the car? Like John says you had the correct equipment for the job.

I can see that wouldn't be at all possible on a GTR street car.

" Being prepared to break the car" is then I guess what it takes... So it comes back to how dedicated you are and how much time and or cash you can throw at it..


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

From my point of view, I went through all the broken gearboxes (7 in 1 season) about 6 years ago and decided to go quick I needed to go 2wd and auto, never looked back and have gone from 10s,9s,8s,7s and soon to be 6s in 3 years without spending a fortune on transmissions, axles, diffs etc.

On the other hand, Jeffs R34 Drag-r took a beating for over 2 years after it came home from here, ran 1.3 to 1.4 60fts with ease, 9.4s @ 156mph at over full weight and with a OS88 transmission so it is possible, alot has to do with driver style, shift cut set up, NOS set up, clutch, tyres/pressures, suspension etc.

The boxes don't usually break off the line, its 3rd, 4th, 5th which leads me to believe its selectors, driver style, shift cuts etc rather than a weakness accross the board. 

I'm not sure why Jeff seems to break the box so easily in the R33, its lighter and less powerfull so something different must be going on.

I'm not sure a Holinger is the answer either, plenty of them have given trouble at 1000-1200hp in a drag situation, only Glen Suckling has seemed to get one 1/2 reliable and into low 8s, very high 7s but he did alot of work/mods to it.

Jeff and I were talking about how popular a reasonably priced, reliable GTR transmission would be for the mid 8 to high 9 second guys, we just don't have the time/money to persue it.

Rob


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

Has anyone tried a Lenco? I've seen several used here and don't think I've heard of them failing. They are very pricey but I don't imagine anything from OS being cheap and you'd have the piece of mind that it likely won't fail.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Jeff and I were talking about how popular a reasonably priced, reliable GTR transmission would be for the mid 8 to high 9 second guys, we just don't have the time/money to persue it.
> 
> Rob


If you're talking seq 6spd, there would no doubt be some circuit guys keen as well, the price and reliabilty just seems to be the factor. I think the cheapest one is a Quaife (I was quoted about $14k nz) and the most expensive is a Holinger at over $30k nz

I'd be keen at $10k nz inc gst landed....:wavey:


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

We use a Lenco in the Zed and a Jericho in the GTST both drag gearbox,s that are only usable really on the strip.

They will both fit the GTR will a lot of work but both are designed to run with a slipper clutch. both the drag cars we run are designed to allow you to reset clutch stack through a por thole in the Titanium bell housing and the gearbox is easily removed with
the Zed we slide the gearbox back toget to the clutch on built in sliders it takes 5 minutes to get to get to the clutch.

A gearbox for draggin is totally different to a gearbox for a track car.


Rob, jeff cars just twists the input shaft off , I think it is just rubbish material used to make the gear kit, I seen Holinger wind the input shaft up a whole turn and not snap.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Jimefam said:


> Has anyone tried a Lenco? I've seen several used here and don't think I've heard of them failing. They are very pricey but I don't imagine anything from OS being cheap and you'd have the piece of mind that it likely won't fail.


They are not renowned for being very street friendly though are they? People do use them for street cars but not many. Andy Frost has got one in his Red Victor 3 but that's not a run of the mill everyday car either.


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## Jimefam (Apr 30, 2011)

Lol no they would not be very good for a DD although as you mentioned there are people who use them as an 90%drag car 10% street car deal. Still if your running enough power to get into the 8's your probably not using that car a whole lot on the street(I may be wrong) but I just suggested them because on this topic(drag parts breaking and costing big $$) that could be a solution. Here I've seen new CS3's for 7-8k and be almost indestructible.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

> Here I've seen new CS3's for 7-8k and be almost indestructible.


But they do need servicing , the clutch packs in each ratio needs looking after , you need to carry a compressed air supply to shift gears. Shifting is normally via button assembly wont be easy to pull the buttons out when wanting to be shifted down.

In my eyes it isnt designed to be used on the road at all.


Mark


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## 800bhp (Nov 11, 2010)

Abbey M/S said:


> But they do need servicing , the clutch packs in each ratio needs looking after , you need to carry a compressed air supply to shift gears. Shifting is normally via button assembly wont be easy to pull the buttons out when wanting to be shifted down.
> 
> In my eyes it isnt designed to be used on the road at all.
> 
> ...


Which is probably why Air Shifting is not allowed in the street class rules and regulations


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

I think any heavy tuning is a bit of a mugs game if it's just you and your wallet tbh! I learned the hard way just paying to get an MR2 up to 500bhp, £20K later!! Never again, and that's why my GTR is relatively stock. I've driven it more in two years than the MR2 in nearly 4, which says it all IMHO!! (We won't mention the other one I've got which is 5 years in and still not finished).

Drag racing is just another level of even more expensive.:chuckle:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Agree with Toni, although I'm still going 650 with the GTR.

That said, I still think the best cars for the money are a stage 2 rwd saff, approx 330brake and a S14 with turbos and injectors approx 350brake - you won't have more fun for your money in any other car at any other stage imo


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Dave has fitted a pro-shift kit to his quaife gearbox in his R34. It's not been without probs but it's early days in terms of set up and he did do a personal best of 10.04 this weekend with it so looks promising.

Rob from RIPS though said 2wd and auto box were the way to go. I tend to agree with that, and that could maybe be a route to drag racing a Skyline more reliably at possibly less cost. Taking the choice early not to worry about running it on the street so stripping it bare..

I'm thinking an early 32 GTS (lightest cheapest skyline) with an RB30 hybrid or maybe even a Nissan V8 and an auto box (not sure which one though) a GTR rear end and some wide rear arch blisters to acommodate some decent width drag tyres, all the while staying within the street class rules. JB proved it's possible to get into the 9s in a GTST with a standard box and rear end (between breakages), before he tubbed his car/ To my knowledge no one else has done that in the UK since.


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## r33-sky (Sep 27, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> Agree with Toni, although I'm still going 650 with the GTR.
> 
> That said, I still think the best cars for the money are a stage 2 rwd saff, approx 330brake and a S14 with turbos and injectors approx 350brake - you won't have more fun for your money in any other car at any other stage imo


Except of course in a GTS-T with 450-550 bhp, since a steep learning curve mines been reliable for over 2 years used every day, and drag and track days, the only thing I've done is change the T3 turbo gasket a few times, it's top-mount so a 20 min easy job.
So it's 'only' a mid 12s car, but it's quick round a track, and HUGE fun, did I mention reliable?


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

r33-sky said:


> Except of course in a GTS-T with 450-550 bhp, since a steep learning curve mines been reliable for over 2 years used every day, and drag and track days, the only thing I've done is change the T3 turbo gasket a few times, it's top-mount so a 20 min easy job.
> So it's 'only' a mid 12s car, but it's quick round a track, and HUGE fun, did I mention reliable?


450/550 in a rwd is too much on the road to be totally drivable, esp in the wet, you'll have cars with less than 200brake beating you, plus the car is developoing twice the output from the factory so things are bound to brake. My point was with regard to a relatively low tune and quite a decent reliableish daily driver


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> 450/550 in a rwd is too much on the road to be totally drivable, esp in the wet, you'll have cars with less than 200brake beating you, plus the car is developoing twice the output from the factory so things are bound to brake. My point was with regard to a relatively low tune and quite a decent reliableish daily driver


in the wet i totally agree, at 757 rwhp i get no traction at 130 mph in the wet ! in the dry though 100% traction from 60 mph all on r888s.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

scoooby slayer said:


> in the wet i totally agree, at 757 rwhp i get no traction at 130 mph in the wet ! in the dry though 100% traction from 60 mph all on r888s.


But again, r888's expensive to buy and prob last 1500 miles. My point was that for say, £4k you can have a fast, reliable, fun car, without the need to spend a gazillion quid in maintainance.

I'm not taking anything away from the mega horsepower cars and as stated my GTR is going to be 650, we do it for the thril (and then all moan about the cost lol)


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## 800bhp (Nov 11, 2010)

blue34 said:


> I'm thinking an early 32 GTS (lightest cheapest skyline) with an RB30 hybrid or maybe even a Nissan V8 and an auto box (not sure which one though)


V8's not allowed in the rules...... V6 is though, see if John will lend you one of his :chuckle::chuckle:


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## r33-sky (Sep 27, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> 450/550 in a rwd is too much on the road to be totally drivable, esp in the wet, you'll have cars with less than 200brake beating you, plus the car is developoing twice the output from the factory so things are bound to brake. My point was with regard to a relatively low tune and quite a decent reliableish daily driver


Did I mention reliable??? Oh I think I did.
A GTR at double the factory output seems to be like a 'ticking bomb', GTS-T no problem.


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## Cliff J (Jan 8, 2008)

This is one of the main reasons I've left my GTR at stage 1. 
I could have bought turbos etc and gone for 550/600, but mine is reliable where it's at now as a drag car.
My times won't change the world but I've had 3.5 years of drag day fun with the only major issue being a dead standard clutch. 
The more issues I see with higher powered GTR's used for drag, the more I remember why I've stayed where I am. 
Of course, in an ideal world I would have a 1000+ bhp GTR and the funds to run it, but I'm perfectly happy in the meantime 
As for wear and tear, drag against track. The damage and stress my car went through on the Silverstone circuit was immense compared to a drag day. Tyres and brakes suffered the most and I decided to give that a miss in the future, I suffer nothing like that on a days dragging.


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

r33-sky said:


> Did I mention reliable??? Oh I think I did. A GTR at double the factory output seems to be like a 'ticking bomb', GTS-T no problem.


A GTR's engine internals are far stronger, the problems arise from the traction the 4wd system provides, either in gearbox/clutch issues or oil surge due to high speed cornering. Unfortunately u cant have it all ways


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

MIKEGTR said:


> But again, r888's expensive to buy and prob last 1500 miles. My point was that for say, £4k you can have a fast, reliable, fun car, without the need to spend a gazillion quid in maintainance.
> 
> I'm not taking anything away from the mega horsepower cars and as stated my GTR is going to be 650, we do it for the thril (and then all moan about the cost lol)


then yes traction is an issue without semi slicks, on the original pirelli n1s i had no traction at 100 mph in the blazing sun ? if was undriveable unless wanting to drift at 100 mph lol


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## Min-e (Sep 23, 2009)

I think this is a really good topic, and has been interesting to read through with everyone's different opinions.

At the end of the day it comes down to what you want to achieve from Drag Racing. Some people do it as a hobby and put their own money into their car, others gain sponsorship, and some people i.e. tuners do it to push the envelope of what is achievable in design and engineering which is also their personal hobby and its good advertisement for their business whilst competing within a series. The main factor is budget 99.9% of the time, and also personal time and commitment.

Speaking about the emotional high and lows, I've just been looking at this video. The Esprit Super Tuning R32 which is the last to run in the video has emotional low after low...


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## 95GTR600 (Jun 24, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> From my point of view, I went through all the broken gearboxes (7 in 1 season) about 6 years ago and decided to go quick I needed to go 2wd and auto, never looked back and have gone from 10s,9s,8s,7s and soon to be 6s in 3 years without spending a fortune on transmissions, axles, diffs etc.
> 
> On the other hand, Jeffs R34 Drag-r took a beating for over 2 years after it came home from here, ran 1.3 to 1.4 60fts with ease, 9.4s @ 156mph at over full weight and with a OS88 transmission so it is possible, alot has to do with driver style, shift cut set up, NOS set up, clutch, tyres/pressures, suspension etc.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking to buy one OS88 transmission or PAR dog engagement because even I could manage to make [email protected] and I was a very happy with straight cut PAR gearset the oem synchros do not let fast and correct shifting.

From your point of view .. how much do you think it could improve on the 1/4 mile ?


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Min-e said:


> Speaking about the emotional high and lows, I've just been looking at this video. The Esprit Super Tuning R32 which is the last to run in the video has emotional low after low...


I think if the bonnet fell off and the gearstick fell out after two runs I 'd give up, but not these guys lol....


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

yes - total waste of time and money for "a 10sec blast", thereabouts.. 

the car was not designed to drag race...

put it on track instead and stop traffic light racing :chuckle:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

95GTR600 said:


> I'm thinking to buy one OS88 transmission or PAR dog engagement because even I could manage to make [email protected] and I was a very happy with straight cut PAR gearset the oem synchros do not let fast and correct shifting.
> 
> From your point of view .. how much do you think it could improve on the 1/4 mile ?


Going to an OS88 won't drop your ETs very much, dropping the 60ft and more hp will make more difference to ET.

In a 9.4/156mph GTR with a 6 speed OS88, by mistake we had the shift cut time set to 0.8sec per shift, it felt like an eternity between gearchanges and it still ran a 9 second 1/4 so you may drop a 10th or so but going by the 136mph you have 9.8 is actually very good because 140mph in a GTR with a sequential is usually a 9.7 to 9.8 at best.

Rob


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

nick the tubman said:


> yes - total waste of time and money for "a 10sec blast", thereabouts..
> 
> the car was not designed to drag race...
> 
> put it on track instead and stop traffic light racing :chuckle:


Good point, well made.

TT


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## Chris Wilson (Aug 20, 2001)

Any motorsport in the UK that cannot be done if it's raining is a mugs game. Like most American ideas, it's for fine weather and people with short attention spans  Knocks seven bells out of the car, and is poor value for money for the amount of seat time you get. If you *MUST* do it just buy a pukka, ready done, drag car with a stonkin' big lazy V8 in it, and a proper transmission system.


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

Chris, I disagree , I thought it would be easy but after 10 years of high end circuit racing drag racing is awesome from the engineering side of things.

I know a 6 second run is short , but to go 200+ mph in 6 seconds is awesome, the engineering side of a drag car is awesome and we only run a little Nissan 3.5 motor that we go kicking big V8 motors arse's. Everyone cant believe how quick our little Nissan powered Motor is.

Chris come to a drag meeting see what goes into making a drag car go quickly , the engineering set up for the clutch/suspension and car set up isnt a piece of cake.


Mark


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

The 350z is incredible, it's built for one purpose with no compromises, it's an amazing piece of engineering and also hugely impressive to see in action. 

In terms of development i'd say it's light years ahead of a drag modified GTR it's like JB said earlier, it's about the proper equipment for the job. Years of engineering development in the drive train to ensure it's capable of what it does. 

Drag racing a GTR on the other hand is more about chance, a roll of the dice even. That the diff or gearbox won't break on the next run, because none of it even after market kit is designed purely for drag racing with the sort of margin of strength that would be needed to make it reliable. A triple plate clutch for instance without a sprung hub just makes things worse as the power is transferred instantly, the only reason the rear axle and gearbox can survive at all is by releasing the torque through spinning tyres.

15" drag tyres help, as does slipping the clutch slightly off the line but it's always going to be a gamble at big horsepower and I've not even mentioned the engine...


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

I would have commented earlier but I have been out trying to earn enough money to keep my drag racing habit fulfilled!

The way I see it; it's either cocaine or drag racing and cocaine is illegal!

No sport is a mugs game if it is what you want to do and you can afford it. If driving round corners makes you happy fine, I don't do corners!

Breakages can certainly piss you off as you cannot fulfil the potential of the car. Whoever brings to market a sequential gearbox that is not made from chocolate will make a fortune.

See you at the Jap Show Finale OSG willing!


.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Ludders said:


> The way I see it; it's either cocaine or drag racing and cocaine is illegal!
> 
> 
> 
> .



Cocaine is cheaper Jeff.


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

mattysupra said:


> Cocaine is cheaper Jeff.


Try a quick snort of Q16 and tell me that you're not hooked!


.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Not a big fan of Drag Racing myself, But I appreciate the amount of work/money that goes into it, To me it's much like oval racing....
I do wonder what the fascination of drag racing a GT-R is though....It's a big heavy car with IRS and very expensive on gearboxes, Not the most suited car for the job.
Having said that, As a club/street track day car it is pretty poor as well.....On most tracks an EVO wipes the floor of them!
...However where it really seems to shine is when it is a full circuit race car where it can get some big rubber under it, lots of weight pulled out, and a strong 600-700hp engine.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Drag racing is fun, its pretty easy to "get", but like anything its much more difficult to master.

When you talk about drag racing and breakages, it gets down to spending money on parts to make the car reliable. Once you get all ----this---- reliable, you break that. 

I like drag racing, and I have done a fair amount of street racing in my time. I live in SoCal the birth of drag racing. I have also and are currently a crew chief on a road race team. Road racing is fun, drag racing is fun. Both take a lot of skill, but generally point of entry is cheaper for drag racing.

Once you start to go fast the costs go up. If you have a 300 million dollar budget, you break less parts, but you still break a few.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

I guess for me not being a drag racing fan I prefer to participate in events that last longer than 8 to 10 sec's.
But, I can relate to how hard it is to extract every single component's maximum performance all at the same time.
But you know , theres drag racing and theres drag racing ....just like everything else....

GTR's are rubbish imho for drag racing, they need more "everything" to go as fast as an evo with half as much power ...
I guess the "discussion" is similar to V8's vs blown non 8 cylinder's, which is a long and boring subject....


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Glenn, you're such a tease, are trying to draw Rob into the discussion?


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

People who don't like drag racing don't like it.

People who like drag racing do like it.

I think that sums it up.


.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Ludders said:


> People who don't like drag racing don't like it.
> 
> People who like drag racing do like it.
> 
> ...


True, but as with a lot of threads, the replies have drifted away from what the OP's topic was about.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Ummm no...
That's what I think ....
Its all so subjective its impossible to discuss....Jeff's right....

The only cars that interest me at the drags are Rails and Funny's, but thats not to say other classes are not interesting, just that they don't interest me.

Theres such a wildly different thing to turning up at the strip to ascertain the et that your car is capable of and running a purpose built drag car that pretty much every single person will have a different interpretation of whether or not drag racing a gtr a mugs game ... 

So again, what Jeff said
Sorted...


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## rb30r34 (Jun 30, 2008)

I like racing. All racing and over time I want to have a go at lots of different types of motorsport. Not just on wheels either.


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## kestral (Aug 29, 2011)

It's a mugs game if you keep doing it.Have a go and then pack it in before it gets to costly to go faster.I would only drag a rocket now,very low costs bar the fuel.Shame the fuel is not available.:chuckle:


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Isn't drag racing just a 'big boy' version of the 'nova/saxo' racing someone off the lights outside the local McDonnalds?
But in this case, he who has the biggest wallet generally wins?

Bob


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## kestral (Aug 29, 2011)

One is always at the behest of the speed shop/tunners and one will only go as fast as they let you.If they have their own cars it is in their own interests to keep you behind them no matter how much you spend with them.They just use the money you spend with them to develop their own car.In my day all the fastest people ran their own speed shops/engineering business.


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## bobdawelder (Jan 1, 2007)

hi malc, interesting thread, i wouldnt say its a mugs game, but it does test your patience and the wallet, ive had my share of blow ups n bent cog malladies, i think this recession is concentrating everybodys mind on costs, ive had a lot of support from my tuner (the car would be on bricks now otherwize) but even with goodwill you cant do owt for nowt. track days can be hard on everything tho, drag racing doesnt use the brakes...much, and not so tough on springs and chassis, so is perhaps the lesser evil. i do it because i love awsome demonstrations of horsepower, and ive met some great and clever people trackside.. i along with lots of others are having to find cheaper ways to have fun at the moment..lots of shows are not well attended for the same reason..went to see some tractor pulling at great ecclestone at the weekend (10,000 horsepower plus) they were experiencing massive blow ups! and moaning about cost just like us! we all need the recession to sod off so we can get back to having fun!


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## kestral (Aug 29, 2011)

I was at a superlight meeting last weekend.They cost £8000 have a 110bhp snowmobeal engine no gears and just fly.The drivers got about 2hrs constant fun.


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

fourtoes said:


> Isn't drag racing just a 'big boy' version of the 'nova/saxo' racing someone off the lights outside the local McDonnalds?
> But in this case, he who has the biggest wallet generally wins?
> 
> Bob


Oh dear Bob you cannot be serious. Money does not simply win. Some of the best cars are built by their owners on fairly restricted budgets. You are way off buddy.

I suppose drag racing can be compared to racing someone off the lights outside the local McDonalds just as track racing can be compared to racing the nova/saxo around a car park when the shops are closed. Obviously no skills are needed for either?



.


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

rb30r34 said:


> I like racing. All racing and over time I want to have a go at lots of different types of motorsport. Not just on wheels either.


Good for you!


.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

Ludders said:


> Oh dear Bob you cannot be serious. Money does not simply win. Some of the best cars are built by their owners on fairly restricted budgets. You are way off buddy.


It means the prospect of being a top contendor is much higher; name some low budget, 9sec GTR's that have done consecutive passes.


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> It means the prospect of being a top contendor is much higher; name some low budget, 9sec GTR's that have done consecutive passes.


I agree that the very small number of 9 second GTRs around have probably cost a fair bit to build but as you know to build the equivalent (quicker than any other car) GTR for the track is just as painful.

Pushing your car to the limit does not mean you will win events (experience talking). 

There are lots of guys having a great time in their GTRs both on the drag strip and on the track. Good luck to them all and long may they enjoy themselves.

More people have damaged their cars on the race track, by crashing, than on the drag strip so does that make track a mugs game?

Me - I think if you enjoy it do it. If you don't enjoy it don't do it. But lets not knock motor sports - any of them!


.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

bigmikespec said:


> It means the prospect of being a top contendor is much higher; name some low budget, 9sec GTR's that have done consecutive passes.


We did 10.2s 7 years ago with a 4wd skyline with a budget of nzd40k including buying the car and knowing what I know now, with no restrictions given to how the car must look or what mods can be done I'm sure mid to high 9s in a streetable car would be do-able and pretty reliable (except for maybe the box) for nzd40k including buying the car.

Under normal circumstances, most people would have to spend alot more than that to get a semi reliable 9 second 4wd skyline and even with budgets MUCH bigger although some things get easier and very reliable, the transmission is still quite often the weak link.

Rob


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Ludders said:


> I agree that the very small number of 9 second GTRs around have probably cost a fair bit to build but as you know to build the equivalent (quicker than any other car) GTR for the track is just as painful.
> 
> Pushing your car to the limit does not mean you will win events (experience talking).
> 
> ...


I love the sport and have met some great people, no knocking intended.

I like the idea of a reliable full trim road car that can maybe cut a 10s quarter without breaking too often... 

If you want to go faster it means compromises, you then get to a point where it's no longer a road car by any sensible measure and in a GTR the breakages come too often, when you get to that point maybe it's not the right car for the job.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Well done Seb, Mark, Jensen
Spa is such an awesome track ...

Excellent racing


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## 95GTR600 (Jun 24, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Going to an OS88 won't drop your ETs very much, dropping the 60ft and more hp will make more difference to ET.
> 
> In a 9.4/156mph GTR with a 6 speed OS88, by mistake we had the shift cut time set to 0.8sec per shift, it felt like an eternity between gearchanges and it still ran a 9 second 1/4 so you may drop a 10th or so but going by the 136mph you have 9.8 is actually very good because 140mph in a GTR with a sequential is usually a 9.7 to 9.8 at best.
> 
> Rob


:bowdown1:
always following your advise... we will improve to a dog box and start working with 2step for launch in order to improve our e.t.


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## w12 yne (Feb 25, 2009)

Me - I think if you enjoy it do it. If you don't enjoy it don't do it. But lets not knock motor sports - any of them!

could' nt agree more :clap:


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