# Pros and Cons of an RB30 Engine?



## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Okay guys. I am in the process of getting ready to build the living crap out of my RB26 including a 2.8L Tomei Stroker Kit. I had previously considered going with an RB30 however I was under the impression that with the RB30 you lost quite a bit of revs. This was my primary reason for steering away from it as I am very rev happy. As of yesterday I was informed that my understanding was incorrect. You dont really lose much revs. You can still rev an RB30 to 9500rpm and such safely.

This brings me to the reason for this thread. First let me say I am not trying to make this an RB30 vs Stroked 26 war. Also I am not asking what the RB30 is or what it does. I know these things as I have researched it. My question is much simpler then that.

If the price to stroke and build and RB26 is the same as the price to buy a brand new RB30 fully built. Why the hell wouldnt you buy the RB30? I mean with all the benefits of the RB30, torque, crazy power possibilities and if you truly dont lose any revs, I dont understand any reason to not go with an RB30 over a stroked RB26 for the same price.

Of course I may have a narrow minded view and that is why I wanted to ask you guys here.

If it costs the same to build a stroked RB26 and for a new fully built RB30, why not buy the RB30?

Thanks guys. 


-Sayajin


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## Thrust (Jun 8, 2004)

First of all, maybe you've mentioned it elsewhere, but what do you want your new engine/car to do for you?


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Thrust said:


> First of all, maybe you've mentioned it elsewhere, but what do you want your new engine/car to do for you?


Sorry, guess that makes sense to say! LOL. Got to remember just because I say it elsewhere doesnt mean I dont need to say it again! Sorry about that.

Essentially what I am shooting for is a 750-800AWHP Street Driven GTR33. I may decide to go with a little more power in the future, so I need my engine to be able to handle it. However that is not foreseeable.

I will be doing quite a bit of drag as well as I have just recently got into road racing on courses. My main concern however is definetly the street and drag. I need something that will be as reliable as possible (of course that is all relative, there is no such thing as reliable and 800WHP. You know what I mean though.) that will also give me the most bang for my buck.

Based upon what I planned to spend to build my RB26 to be able to handle about 1000AWHP and stoke it to a 2.8L, the RB30 fully built would cost me about the same.

-Sayajin


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## rasonline (Mar 24, 2005)

this has been talked to death previously 

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/59648-osg-rb30-vs-rb30-patrol-holden-bitchfest.html?highlight=rb30

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/51562-rb30.html?highlight=rb30

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/49286-tomei-v-os-giken.html?highlight=rb30+giken


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## neil c (Jul 11, 2006)

give r.i.p.s a call, i'm sure they could build you a rb30 for a lot less then a fully built rb28


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## ollam69 (Jun 22, 2006)

A block that was developed for a low tech OZ saloon over a a block that was built to race. Its a no brainer really, Id choose the RB26 all the time either in stock capacity or stoked. Also people forget the race develped OS Giken kit. 

I know the low cost RB30 has many fans, but I would not waste my time with it especially on an R32, as this engine is some 40mm higher than the RB26 and also higher than the RB30 by OSG. The result too much fiddling around making spacers, engine mount mods and other hacks

Each to their own, you pay and get what you pay for it!


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

ollam69 said:


> I know the low cost RB30 has many fans, but I would not waste my time with it especially on an R32, as this engine is some 40mm higher than the RB26 and also higher than the RB30 by OSG. The result too much fiddling around making spacers, engine mount mods and other hacks
> 
> Each to their own, you pay and get what you pay for it!



Not true I'm afraid, I have a RB30dett in a R32 and I did no x-member mods, no engine mount mods and it bolts in just as the 26 does.
We did take a small amount off one of the underside bonnet braces but after the clip on bonnet lining goes back you don't even notice.

Hp per $, you just can't beat a good RB30 if your happy to be in the 600-900hp and up to 8000rpm range, the torque and drivability of a 30 blows a 26 into the weeds effortlessly, I think a 30 is a no brainer but i suppose I would, I've driven a fair few of them


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Ollam69, christ, you really speak out of your ar$e.


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

R32 Combat said:


> Ollam69, christ, you really speak out of your ar$e.



i second that


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## spanishjohn (Dec 27, 2006)

give these guys a call they build the RB30 Home - Thor Racing (Japanese Performance Car Tuning) ive already spoken to them myself very pleasant and extremely helpfull


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## shanef (Jun 8, 2006)

if you havnt done it already, get intouch with RIPS, they've got the knowledge of the RB30 as they've built plenty of big powered ones 

And IMO, if ur after 'reliability' ur gonna have to be realistic, and keep the revs in check, i.e something around 8000rpm at the most.


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

rasonline said:


> this has been talked to death previously
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/59648-osg-rb30-vs-rb30-patrol-holden-bitchfest.html?highlight=rb30
> 
> ...





Sayajin said:


> First let me say I am not trying to make this an RB30 vs Stroked 26 war. Also I am not asking what the RB30 is or what it does. I know these things as I have researched it. My question is much simpler then that.


My question is not one addressed in those threads. Those are about what the RB30 is and what it does. I am not asking that. I am asking about specific reasons why not to. Thanks however.


-Sayajin


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Spoke w/ Rob @ RIPPS and I think I see an RB30 in my future....

Just have a few more questions for him here and there but it sounds ideal for my goals. A good 800WHP or so on a street driven car. 

Thanks guys. It doesnt seem to me like there is any reason why not to.

-Sayajin


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## nismoman (Jul 13, 2004)

as this is a subject of much interest to myself,can someone in the know give any idea as to cost of having a rb30 biult lets say to 800bhp in comparision to having a O S rb30 built,as R B MOTORSPORT are O S dealers in the uk,and R I P are in aus i,m sure this is a factor in costs,as what about warrenty issues ,i dont want a this garage is better than that garage slangging match i,m just looking for a answer based on pure costs,with some figures if possible:wavey: NISMOMAN


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## rockabilly (Oct 15, 2003)

i am building my own at home, expect 650-700bhp 560-600 ilbs and boost b4 4000rpm..cost of build b4 mapping including buying the rb30 about 4-5k.sold my old 600bhp block to recoup some pennies.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

nismoman said:


> as this is a subject of much interest to myself,can someone in the know give any idea as to cost of having a rb30 biult lets say to 800bhp in comparision to having a O S rb30 built,as R B MOTORSPORT are O S dealers in the uk,and R I P are in aus i,m sure this is a factor in costs,as what about warrenty issues ,i dont want a this garage is better than that garage slangging match i,m just looking for a answer based on pure costs,with some figures if possible:wavey: NISMOMAN


Shipping is aprox 150 pound to get a pellit load of goddies to you from NZ (not aussie! lol) by sea in aprox 5-6 weeks or 500-600 pound by air in 3-4 days.
In 20 years of building engines, warranty claims have been non existant but if there ever was a case of a genuine problem, I would stand behind it 110%, ask my customers, service and reputation is extreemly important to me.

I can do a pretty full on forged RB30 bottom end with JUN oil pump drive and pump, block brace, 4wd adapter kit, R.I.P.S custom sump, race damper, water pump, idler/tensioner, cam belt, head bolts, all our custom mods etc for around 5-6k pound (few options and exchange rate variation).

Alot of short block prices you get may be for block/crank/pistons/rods only.

Rob


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## rockabilly (Oct 15, 2003)

robs on the money there. also thanks for the advice again rob...:smokin:


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## ollam69 (Jun 22, 2006)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Not true I'm afraid, I have a RB30dett in a R32 and I did no x-member mods, no engine mount mods and it bolts in just as the 26 does.
> We did take a small amount off one of the underside bonnet braces but after the clip on bonnet lining goes back you don't even notice.
> 
> Hp per $, you just can't beat a good RB30 if your happy to be in the 600-900hp and up to 8000rpm range, the torque and drivability of a 30 blows a 26 into the weeds effortlessly, I think a 30 is a no brainer but i suppose I would, I've driven a fair few of them


If HP for $ is what your after you may as well stick in a Yank V8 or a tractor engine! Loads of torque:chuckle:


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## skylife (Dec 6, 2005)

^^^ yeah but you'd run into issues with fitting, 4wd etc, and it wont be a nissan rb.


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Hey Rob. I have a few quick questions for you. I think I am just about ready to go ahead and buy my RIPPS RB30, but I wanted to confirm a few things.

It appears that the 26/30 conversion is by far the easiest to do. Luckily for me this is the conversion I will be doing. 

I have been doing a bit of research on exactly what modifications need to be done and I just want to confirm them with you. I also had a few questions specific about the RIPPS RB30 and I was hoping you could answer them for me.

Just want to confirm that running a RIPPS forged RB30 the only modifications I would need to do are:

Re-Tap for RB26 head studs as they are larger
Redrill the lower bell housing bolts
and possibly extend lower cam cover? (not 100% sure what this means, care to expound upon it)

Are there any other modifications that need to be done in order to run the RIPPS RB30 with the RB26DETT head? As I said before, I plan to keep my twins for a bit and use my stock exhaust manifold.

I do have a few questions however.

As far as bearings go, what bearings do you guys use? Are they the stock Nissan ones or are they upgraded ones? If upgraded which ones?

How difficult is it to put the RB26 oil squirters into the RIPPS RB30 block? Is it even necessary with forged internals?

Can RB26DETT motor mounts be used to put the RB30 into a GTR33? I currently have a pack of new Nismo motor mounts and I am wondering if I can use them or I need to get new specific ones.

If I recall correctly the RIPPS RB30 uses a stock RB30 crank. What type of power can the stock crank handle safely on a consistent basis? Also are forged cranks available? and at what price?

What about oil pickup and oil/water return lines? Do I need to tap the RIPPS RB30 in order to run my stock RB26 lines? Or does it come pre tapped? Hell does that even matter on a RB26? Im not sure if that is a 25 only issue....

Sorry for the mass of questions. Those are esentially my last ones. I think I have everything else down for the most part. I would normally PM you but I figure a few other guys on here might be interested in these answers as well.


Thanks a lot Rob.


-Sayajin


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Whoops! Forgot my most important question.

Since i am getting the ROSS Dampener Pulley to remove the harmonic imbalance, I just want to confirm the rev portion.

I should be safe leaving the rev limit at a stock position of 8200RPM correct? Or do I need to drop it down to about 7500RPM or so?

I am looking to be able to run these revs consistently and hold them there as I plan to do some road racing with the vehicle. Just want to know where I need to be for safety and reliability.

Thanks Rob.

I truly see a RIPPS RB30 in the NNNNEEEEAAAAR future....

btw, that shipping price you quoted me to the USA, how is that shipped? Also how long does it take to get here from NZD?


-Sayajin


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Sayajin said:


> Hey Rob. I have a few quick questions for you. I think I am just about ready to go ahead and buy my RIPPS RB30, but I wanted to confirm a few things.
> 
> It appears that the 26/30 conversion is by far the easiest to do. Luckily for me this is the conversion I will be doing.
> 
> ...


Not required but I can supply an 11mm head stud kit if you like. 



Sayajin said:


> Redrill the lower bell housing bolts


If I supply our custom sump this is done for you.



Sayajin said:


> and possibly extend lower cam cover? (not 100% sure what this means, care to expound upon it)


We extend the top timing cover, if you send me yours I can do it or make the panel for you to install, its easy.



Sayajin said:


> Are there any other modifications that need to be done in order to run the RIPPS RB30 with the RB26DETT head? As I said before, I plan to keep my twins for a bit and use my stock exhaust manifold.


The head bolts straight on without modification.



Sayajin said:


> I do have a few questions however.
> 
> As far as bearings go, what bearings do you guys use? Are they the stock Nissan ones or are they upgraded ones? If upgraded which ones?


I use ACL race series bearings.



Sayajin said:


> How difficult is it to put the RB26 oil squirters into the RIPPS RB30 block? Is it even necessary with forged internals?


Not required. No piston failiers, ever.



Sayajin said:


> Can RB26DETT motor mounts be used to put the RB30 into a GTR33? I currently have a pack of new Nismo motor mounts and I am wondering if I can use them or I need to get new specific ones.


The standard or nismo mounts bolt straight up to a 30 just as the 26's do.




Sayajin said:


> If I recall correctly the RIPPS RB30 uses a stock RB30 crank. What type of power can the stock crank handle safely on a consistent basis? Also are forged cranks available? and at what price?


I have always used stock cranks and I have never had a failier of any kind.
There are many 8 second RB30's in street cars using stock cranks and it is common to exceed 1000hp without issue.



Sayajin said:


> What about oil pickup and oil/water return lines? Do I need to tap the RIPPS RB30 in order to run my stock RB26 lines? Or does it come pre tapped? Hell does that even matter on a RB26? Im not sure if that is a 25 only issue....


The RB30 block has the oil feed in the same place and I custom make a twin return if you want to stick with your twins, I'll go over these types of things when you order.





Sayajin said:


> Sorry for the mass of questions. Those are esentially my last ones. I think I have everything else down for the most part. I would normally PM you but I figure a few other guys on here might be interested in these answers as well.


No problem, there are a few little tricks I give my customers and once an order is placed you get any other information you may need.
There are a few simple mods I recommend, all easy, and I give step by step instruction, even pictures if required.
Basicly, I have done just about any possible combination of RB30 into just about every model of skyline and also other cars like 200sx, Patrol and some ols school datsun's, there is nothing hard about any of it, its just time and information I'm happy to share with my customers.

E-mail or MSN me if you have any more questions,

Regards Rob


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## [email protected] M/S (Feb 16, 2002)

> 650-700bhp 560-600 ilbs


I think you a little over the top on your torque estimation , you need big boost to get this in my opinon.


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

........ I think I am in love.....

That damn near completely answers any questions that I have regarding the RIPPS RB30..... im sold on it.

Plan to order one in the next week or week and a half. Thanks for all the help Rob.


-Sayajin


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## rockabilly (Oct 15, 2003)

cheers mark. what torque would 650bhp give me?. running a gt35r 1.06 rear 4" downpipe 44mm ex waste..ta..:thumbsup:


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

The holden RB30 seems to be a very cost efficient way of getting into 600/700bhp territory (not saying it can't do more, just all the ones i've heard of in the uk seem to be about that)

I know there are several jobs that need to be done to the holden RB30 so it's not truly a "bolt in" upgrade. Oil pump, sump etc.. but it's been done many times so there must be decent bit's you can buy off the shelf (RIPS??)

I don't think it's fair to directly compare the 2 engines, one is a standard motor that can be modified as much (or as little) as the customer requires. The OS Giken however is a fully built motor and is the £££ to go with it, but capable of doing 1400bhp and more importantly 9000rpm. I'm sure it's poss to mod the holden to a similar level, but surly prices will then be in a similar vein?




R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I have always used stock cranks and I have never had a failier of any kind.
> There are many 8 second RB30's in street cars using stock cranks and it is common to exceed 1000hp without issue
> 
> Rob


You've obviously worked on holden RB30's a whole load more than me, but I find that statement really hard to believe? Stock cranks good for 1000bhp? how long do they last? and what kind of revs are they spinning to???????


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Running 9K rpm give a hideous piston inertia fig of around 1800kg(the max inertia on the up stroke) with the RB30 and the RB26 is 1470kg. Add onto that the weight of the conrod and the force on the rod bolts become mega. The RB30 has a piston speed of 25.5 metre's per second and the RB26 21.9 mps.

Basically you have to accelerate the piston to 60MPH and stop it in 85mm.


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

The whole revs discussion is really kinda mute in my eyes........these engines make so much more torque than the 26 that you really don't have to rev them hard and come on guys...........be honest, do you really need to rev them out to more than 8000RPM ? 

I know I certainly don't, and besides all that, it'll be slower even if you do........if the peak torque is already gone and is dropping (as is the case generally over 8000rpm) then all you're doing is revving it for the sake of it.

Just drive a 3.0 or even a 2.8 and tell me it needs to rev over 8000rpm.........drag cars maybe, track and road cars..........can't see why you'd want to........

Just my 2 cents


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

I don't consider it mute at all.

If you motor is strong enough for 9000 then there will be no probs using it to 8 on a regular basis. If it is only strong enough for 7800, how close to that limit are you going to use it on a regular basis?

If we are talking about 700bhp + engines then we are talking decent sized turbo's and you need rev's to have a nice usable power band.

I don't see the point in upping the capacity to have a lower boost threshold, if you are then limited to a lower rev limit. You haven't really gained that much in the end?


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## shanef (Jun 8, 2006)

But lowering the boost threshold means it comes on earlier, isnt that better than having a car that's lag ridden? I'd rather response over revs anyday


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Cord said:


> I don't consider it mute at all.
> 
> If you motor is strong enough for 9000 then there will be no probs using it to 8 on a regular basis. If it is only strong enough for 7800, how close to that limit are you going to use it on a regular basis?
> 
> ...


I think something worth mentioning is this:
We have not yet found the limits, we have had no failiers (even with stock internal RB30's running low 10's) and one RB30 in particlular in a track GTSt we rev to 8500rpm every gear and its loving it.
At this stage I have not had the need to 'just rev one for the hell of it' to see if anything breaks, maybe when I'm not booked solid for months in advance I can try to break a motor just to see what happens.

I think as canman says, when you can make massive torque and unbelievable drivability compared to a 26 there really is little point in revving the nuts of the motor unless your really after very high speed in top gear.

I find that much beyond 8000rpm is pretty pointless with a 30 in a street car.

The OSG obviously is good for the real high end of things but very few people really need it and when its more than twice the price for alot less parts than our bottom ends its not really a comparable item and there have been a few OSG failiers (possibly tuning issues or really pushing them hard, I don't know).

I have been working on a cnc billet mains cap kit with oversize studs, (that does away with the entire stock cradle) a massively strong block brace that ties it all together (block, mains and sump all braced together) so it should take care of any 'blowing the crank out the bottom' issues that may arrise.

The first GT45 equipped RB30 motor is 99% ready to go and the crank is going no-where in a hurry with this setup.

It always comes back to each to there own and making a choice based on how much power you want, your budget and previous results that can be proven time and time again by your chosen engine builder.

Rob


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

I think you misunderstood me a little cord. Rob had already made it clear that there was no issues revving them to 8000rpm all day everyday, so that's what I was basing my post on.

I was making the assumption that those talking about more revs had read Rob's comments and were talking about more than 8000rpm which as I said in my eyes is a mute point as with a 3.0 and the right turbo setup you'll be making over 1.0bar of boost at 3000rpm or so and so that gives you 5000rpm of really usable power..........I'd prefer that to revving from 4000rpm to 9000rpm.

If I wanted that I'd drive my Civic Type R more often, I'm after low down grunt with good high end power too and 8000rpm is still high for a street car.

I understand everyone wants something different, I just think that a lot of people get caught up in the more revs more horsepower story when in fact if you took them out in a real 600HP at the wheels car they'd crap themselves and tell you it was 1000HP if you didn't tell them differently.

I think the same goes for revs.........people get caught up in the number without thinking about the reality.......that's my main point.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

There are quite a few reasons that you might want to have a 9000 RPM capability when you are running big power on an RB30.

I was out for a spin in my OS Giken version a couple of weeks ago and as you can see from the following onboard clip there was a real problem with whether I needed two hands on the steering wheel because the car was going sideways.

Using the OS Giken and having an extra 1000 RPM to play with means that you can safely use you’re your 800 + BHP without the worry of it going pop.

I’m not saying the RPS offering isn’t good, just that I have had great fun with the OS Giken version over the last few years and wouldn’t change it for the world.

HughAccelarationDemo.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

The clip shows the car on low boost using pump fuel.

It's even more fun on race fuel and 30% more boost.


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

Maybe it's just me Hugh, but I can't see how any of the things you've brought up would be any different with 8000 or 9000 rpm.......

Needing 2 hands on the wheel due to the traction issues would be the same regardless of RPM, and a rev limiter is there to stop you over - revving so I don't really get your point....as Rob's pointed out the reliability of the RIPS RB30 combo has been pretty good.......

Regardless of all of that and on a side note...........cool video  , awesome power.... must be a real handful if you're not on your toes with that much grunt.....


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## rasonline (Mar 24, 2005)

Sayajin said:


> My question is not one addressed in those threads. Those are about what the RB30 is and what it does. I am not asking that. I am asking about specific reasons why not to. Thanks however.
> 
> 
> -Sayajin


ok, sorry for that.

well, if the costs are the same, then it depends on your personal preference.

RB30 engine characteristics will have more torque as you already know. I know it will rev up, but i'm still convinced the RB26 engine characteristic will be to rev more freely.

performance wise you probably going to have a more driveable car with the RB30. Can't see why not go for the RB30?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Fraser,

My point is that with 800 or so BHP, these cars are a handful. 

Given that big turbos need reasonable RPM to obtain maximum boost, the available RPM at maximum boost is for me a consideration.

The way my car accelerates, there is no way that the engine would stop a 9000 RPM if being driven flat out. My Motec has soft and hard cut, but the rate of acceleration would carry the RPM’s past the number in the lower gears.

I’m not trying to say the non OS Giken version is no good, just that I find the 9000 RPM limit makes the car easier and more fun to drive.

Sayajin,

There is in my mind, absolutely no reason not to go for the 3 litre option. Again looking at the video above, does it look like it is slow to rev – I don’t think so.

I have had loads of RB26 engine set-ups standard and 3 litre, my current 3 litre revs as well if not better than any previous set-up.

I can think of only one word to describe the way my car goes – AWSOME!


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Thanks guys.

Hugh... that is one of the sexiest videos I have seen..... probably because I hope to get even a portion of that power! Thanks for the first hand info. Makes a big difference when it comes from a neutral source who has experienced both setups.

I spoke with Rob yesterday and worked out the final details on my build including pricing and timeframe. I plan to put my order in at the end of the week and patiently wait for my baby. Im already excited out of my mind....

First place in AWD class at Import Showdown here I come!


-Sayajin


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Huge, nice video and the twins sure come on well.
Can you change gear with your box without off throttleing or using the clutch?

If we can prove reliability of the R.I.P.S RB30 around 1000hp and at least 9000rpm does that mean that the OSG might not be such good value for money after all?

I've had a close look at the components of the OSG and our new bottom end certainly appears to be stronger other than the crank.
If the stock cranks ever become an issue and we get a new crank made I see no real reason why they wouldnt be very close in strength.

Good luck with your car, its sure a beauty and as you say, a good 30 of any brand is sure hard to beat in a street car.

Rob


Once I get a car with a decent box that will actually hold what we can throw at it, it will be interesting to see, thats for sure.


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I think something worth mentioning is this:
> We have not yet found the limits, we have had no failiers (even with stock internal RB30's running low 10's) and one RB30 in particlular in a track GTSt we rev to 8500rpm every gear and its loving it.
> At this stage I have not had the need to 'just rev one for the hell of it' to see if anything breaks, maybe when I'm not booked solid for months in advance I can try to break a motor just to see what happens.


No failures so far is certainly a VERY ggod result, every credit to you. And 8500rpm must certainly be testing it well.



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I think as canman says, when you can make massive torque and unbelievable drivability compared to a 26 there really is little point in revving the nuts of the motor unless your really after very high speed in top gear.
> 
> I find that much beyond 8000rpm is pretty pointless with a 30 in a street car..


I agree compared to a 26, but I was really getting at the difference betweeen the 2 RB30's. If one is safer for 1000rpm more, then i dare say it will be used.



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> The OSG obviously is good for the real high end of things but very few people really need it and when its more than twice the price for alot less parts than our bottom ends its not really a comparable item and there have been a few OSG failiers (possibly tuning issues or really pushing them hard, I don't know).
> 
> It always comes back to each to there own and making a choice based on how much power you want, your budget and previous results that can be proven time and time again by your chosen engine builder.
> 
> Rob


That is another thing I was trying to get at, people seem very keen to compare the 2 engines, but they are not a direct match to each other. If people compared the OS Giken to a holden RB30 built for 9000rpm/1400bhp then I can't see the Holden being all that cheaper. Just cos both motor's are 3.0litre doesn't mean they are directly comparable.


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

canman said:


> I understand everyone wants something different, I just think that a lot of people get caught up in the more revs more horsepower story when in fact if you took them out in a real 600HP at the wheels car they'd crap themselves and tell you it was 1000HP if you didn't tell them differently.
> 
> I think the same goes for revs.........people get caught up in the number without thinking about the reality.......that's my main point.



Tell me about it! I've had more than my fair share of customers who turn up with 700bhp engines, only to go out in them and find they are more like 500. If they REALLY had 700 they wouldn't know what to do with it!!


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

Hugh and Cord......... all I can say is WOW.............someone who can actually have a reasonable debate and look at all the points rather than going off the handle........

Thanks, I think this thread has been really useful to a lot of people including me. I'm also in the stage of deciding if I go OS or RIPS.......


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Huge, nice video and the twins sure come on well.
> Can you change gear with your box without off throttleing or using the clutch?


Yes it has a flat shift system, am sure Hugh will explain more.



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> If we can prove reliability of the R.I.P.S RB30 around 1000hp and at least 9000rpm does that mean that the OSG might not be such good value for money after all?
> 
> I've had a close look at the components of the OSG and our new bottom end certainly appears to be stronger other than the crank.
> If the stock cranks ever become an issue and we get a new crank made I see no real reason why they wouldnt be very close in strength.


I suppose it ALL comes down to money. How much do you think it will cost? I know the OS Giken isn't cheap, but if you break down all the component you get, and the fact it is ready built (compared to HKS etc.. stroker kits) I don't see it as over expensive. I can list all parts that comes with a Giken if you don't know. What would constitute a RIPS 100bhp motor, and for what kind of money? (I've no idea what a Giken costs in NZ, but I bet it's cheaper then than bloody england where everything is expensive!!



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Good luck with your car, its sure a beauty and as you say, a good 30 of any brand is sure hard to beat in a street car.
> 
> Rob


I'm lucky enough to have driven Hugh's car, and all i can say is that the video doesn't do it justice, on full boost on race fuel it is quite amazing, specially as it is still a daily driven road car.


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

canman said:


> Hugh and Cord......... all I can say is WOW.............someone who can actually have a reasonable debate and look at all the points rather than going off the handle........
> 
> Thanks, I think this thread has been really useful to a lot of people including me. I'm also in the stage of deciding if I go OS or RIPS.......


LOL, reasoned debates are a thing of the past on this site, I'm sure it will spiral into name calling and threats of bans soon enough!!! :banned: :chairshot


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Humm.. now I have another question more related to the RB26 head on the RB30 block...

I am planning to use my current RB26 head and have it ported and polished as well as changing valves, springs, retainers, cam studs, buckets, and lifters.

I am wondering if that would be sufficient to support a 800-900WHP RB30. I would have thought so based upon my research, however my shop is advising I look into Kelford out of NZ, Kelford Cams, Christchurch, New Zealand , for a new heavy duty head. I would have thought this was overkill.... but I figure you guys would know best! So what do you think? Do I really need a new one of this magnitude or will the above mentioned work on mine suffice?


-Sayajin


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

Rob's your man to answer definitively, but I'm pretty sure you'll find using your existing head will be fine based on what I know of RIPS RB30 setups.


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

You will need to do a fair bit of work to the head to make 900whp efficiently. But what does a "Heavy Duty Head" entale?


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

> Stage 2
> To suit well built high performance engines for extreme street, drag, drift, circuit, rally, and most racing applications. Your cylinder head is acid washed, pressure and hardness tested, the ports are modified to suit your application and to suit 1mm oversize stainless valves, (inconel valves are used on exhaust in turbo applications) the valve seats are cut to our design and to suit the oversize valves, the head is surface ground to achieve the correct combustion chamber volume for your application and to the correct surface finish. The head is flow tested to verify improvments and is final washed and assembled with new oversize stainless valves, new stem seals, high performance valve springs with titanium retainers are fitted to suit your chosen camshafts, RPM and application.click here to download prices for stage 2


From the above posted site.


-Sayajin


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## shanef (Jun 8, 2006)

Sayajin said:


> Humm.. now I have another question more related to the RB26 head on the RB30 block...
> 
> I am planning to use my current RB26 head and have it ported and polished as well as changing valves, springs, retainers, cam studs, buckets, and lifters.
> 
> ...


Have a look in RIPS's sig:
"R33 UK001 GTR, RB30, stock head, cams etc 646whp (4wd roller dyno) [email protected] heavier than stock"

Bog stock head on that UK rb30 they've done and look at the power it makes!

I dont see any need for any other work than cams, gears, springs & a bit of a port job, anything else would be a waste of money IMO.


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

shanef said:


> Have a look in RIPS's sig:
> "R33 UK001 GTR, RB30, stock head, cams etc 646whp (4wd roller dyno) [email protected] heavier than stock"
> 
> Bog stock head on that UK rb30 they've done and look at the power it makes!
> ...


Rob essentially said the same thing. Sounds to me like I have my answer.

Thanks guys.


-Sayajin


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

I think oversize valves would be overkill, we have used them on BIG bhp drag engines, but we were trying to extract every last bhp.

A good porting job, especially removing mismatches on the plenum throttle body etc, and also remove lumps around studs on the exhaust side. 800/900whp is a LOT of power, I would also be tempted to re-machine the combustion chamber to remove some squish.


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## shanef (Jun 8, 2006)

sayajin, comes to a point where the question needs to be asked, what ecu are you going to be running? ecu's like the haltech (my personal preferance) have TPS tunability, which will certianly come in handy in making sure the airflow to each cyliner is near spot on at that kinda big power.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Cord said:


> I suppose it ALL comes down to money. How much do you think it will cost? I know the OS Giken isn't cheap, but if you break down all the component you get, and the fact it is ready built (compared to HKS etc.. stroker kits) I don't see it as over expensive. I can list all parts that comes with a Giken if you don't know. What would constitute a RIPS 100bhp motor, and for what kind of money? (I've no idea what a Giken costs in NZ, but I bet it's cheaper then than bloody england where everything is expensive!!


There is currently a new OSG bottom end kit for sale in NZ for nzd32,000.

According to the pix I have seen of what it includes, it does NOT include oil pump, high capacity sump, rear seal housing, front damper, modified timing covers, idler and tensioner bearing and it does not show it as being assembled.

My usual forged RB30 kit which is less than 1/2 the price INCLUDES all of the extra parts I listed above and its fully assembled ready for a head.

Rob


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## Cord (Aug 21, 2002)

All the ones I've recieved from Giken have come assembled, that is definately the norm in england.

You get

Brand new block,
rods, 
pistons,
crank,
crank studs,
head studs,
full set of Nismo/nissan bearings,
spacers for splash guard,
couple of extra long m6 bolts for head,
crank timing pulley,
adjustable cam pulley's,
cam belt,
early ones came with giken idler+tensioner, later ones with nissan,
oil squirters,
head gasket,

So you are right apart from idler+tensioner. (not being picky, but there are obviously differences and i just wanted to highlight them so we are on a level playing field)

What kind of power/revs is the forged kit you mention good for?

I think the Giken RB30 is a fair bit cheaper now (I'm not definate) but i think £8000 or NZ$22,500

You defo get more parts with your kit, but are there other things required to get it into a GTR? (ignoring intake, exhaust obviously) Doesn't it require something to bolt sump to?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Cord said:


> What kind of power/revs is the forged kit you mention good for?
> 
> You defo get more parts with your kit, but are there other things required to get it into a GTR? (ignoring intake, exhaust obviously) Doesn't it require something to bolt sump to?


The kit I do is a complete assembled bottom end from sump to the top of the block and from front damper to the back of the crank (can also do flywheel/clutch if reqd), it includes our 4wd block brace adapter kit, high capacity sump, all assembled ready to go, take a look at Ludders thread 
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/69647-my-new-r-i-p-s-rb30-accessories.html there is a pic there of the assembled unit showing most of the parts included.

It bolts in just as the 26 did, even the rear lower sump to gearbox holes are slotted so they can go back in, it's a real easy swap.

I have been to 1000hp and regularly 8000rpm and even to 8500rpm with a 700hp track motor and all without incident.

I don't know what the limits are as we have had no failiers of any kind.
I'd say as a pretty safe bet 850-900hp and 8000rpm and lets be honest, not many people can genuinly go far beyond that anyway.

I'll run one up to 9000rpm and beyond as soon as I get a chance and if under continual use they prove reliable we'll be covering the only 'grey area' some people seem to have with the Aussie RB30.

Rob


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## bullitt78 (Aug 19, 2006)

Hey, Sayajin, R.I.P.S., how much is shipping to the States? I'm in Texas. Depending on the shipping and total pricing, I am starting to lean this route too...


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Huge, nice video and the twins sure come on well.
> Can you change gear with your box without off throttleing or using the clutch?
> 
> If we can prove reliability of the R.I.P.S RB30 around 1000hp and at least 9000rpm does that mean that the OSG might not be such good value for money after all?
> ...


Rob,

I agree, my car builds boost well, the acceleration in 5th isn’t that much different to 3rd.

I have a strain gauge fitted to the gear lever that allows you to flat shift without using the clutch and keeping the throttle anywhere from 30% throttle to 100% throttle flat to the floor.

I will be doing another video and will show the flat shift in operation.

Not sure that I can agree with your comments on the components, the RB26 block is bound to be stronger than the RB30.

I couldn’t comment on the rest all that matters is that it stays together to allow you to enjoy your pride and joy whenever you fancy an adrenalin rush.

Totally agree with your comment on a good 3 litre of any brand is hard to beat as a street car.

There is no doubt that if your current box is weak than there is little point in pushing the envelope. There are around 30 OS Giken sequential boxes in the UK and apart from some early breakages where the driver is getting the hang of using them they are completely reliable.

Sayajin,

My head uses standard valves with Tomei upgraded guides, springs and lifters. There might be more power available from bigger valves, but not sure at which point that becomes viable – might be a good topic for a separate thread.

Cord has built all but one of the OS Giken engines in the UK and will know better than most whether there is much to be gained from bigger valves.

Keith’s Cowie’s drag car has the OS Giken engine with bigger valves and will be a good bit faster this year. If my car is awesome, his car is completely mental but there comes a point where you have to say that enough is enough and for every day driving and the odd competition, I would say that mine is enough.

Cheers

Hugh


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Hugh Keir said:


> the RB26 block is bound to be stronger than the RB30.
> 
> 
> > I would agree that a stock 26 block would be stronger than a stock 30 block.
> ...


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## HenrikE (Mar 23, 2006)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> My newest bottom end kit has billet 4340 splayed 4 bolt mains, the caps slide onto studs and spigot in the usual way, then a substantial cnc'd brace drops over the studs/caps and picks up on every bolt around the bottom of the block, then as the sump goes on, it also picks up on the brace AND the block so all 3 areas are completely tied togther full width with next to no gaps anywhere.
> 
> Rob


Any pics of that?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Sorry, no.

When you order and have paid a deposit I would show you.


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## HenrikE (Mar 23, 2006)

No worries. Was just curious and wasnt trying to steal your business.
Unfortunately i'm not one of them who can spend souch amount to have some one else do it for me. Wish i was thou


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## Sayajin (May 30, 2006)

Well I will be happy to test out that new forged bottom for you Rob. Give me a few days to put my order in, just tying up lose ends and figuring out what I am doing as far as head work and such.


-Sayajin


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## [N1ZMO] (Aug 28, 2005)

Im a bit confused,How much are you claiming a stock GTR/26 head will flow with standard everything(cams no porting etc) Somthing is not right


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

R33 UK001 GTR, RB30, stock head, cams etc 646whp (4wd roller dyno) [email protected] heavier than stock


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## [N1ZMO] (Aug 28, 2005)

canman said:


> R33 UK001 GTR, RB30, stock head, cams etc 646whp (4wd roller dyno) [email protected] heavier than stock


See thats where Im lost,Iv always been led to beleive that the stock head/cam set up would not do that.?


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

Seems you've been led the wrong way then, as I'm pretty sure that car's well documented. Isn't that the one that's just been in Performance car as well ??

Not hard to believe I'd have thought when you can easily get 500-550HP from a 2.6 with some 2530's then why would you think it was so hard to get 650hp from a 3.0 ?

I'm not disagreeing with you, but knowing what's possible from a 2.6 with some 2530's, 650hp from a 3.0........it's not that far off......


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## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

Rob/RIPS, whats the thoughts behind the flat top pistons?

Am thinking flame front characteristics...

650atw would suggest around 740-750 fly. On stock cams? regardless of CC i'm not feeling that power capability?

Rob


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## [N1ZMO] (Aug 28, 2005)

canman said:


> Seems you've been led the wrong way then, as I'm pretty sure that car's well documented. Isn't that the one that's just been in Performance car as well ??
> 
> Not hard to believe I'd have thought when you can easily get 500-550HP from a 2.6 with some 2530's then why would you think it was so hard to get 650hp from a 3.0 ?
> 
> I'm not disagreeing with you, but knowing what's possible from a 2.6 with some 2530's, 650hp from a 3.0........it's not that far off......


Are you talking atw or at the flywheel/engine? 
Im not disagreeing that 2530s will flow 500-550 hp at the engine on stock cams but at the wheels youed be pushing it.
300 -340kws atw seems to be where the stock cam/head needs upgrading to get more from 2530s theres your 500 - 550 hp at the engine,Hes claiming nearly 650 hp at the *wheels* on stock cams/head is he not?

Around 500 whp in a r32 will get you into the 10s so a tad more in a r33 taking into account the extra weight,
Rob can you confirm that the white 33(nzp mag) has a stock 26 head ?
Im not disbeleiving you but logic says somthing else.What dyno did you use?Hopefully not the one in Tauranga thats read nearly 100kws more on a 300zx - comparing it againest a 4wd dynapack


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

Well Russells R34 made 414KW ATW on 2530's and as far as I'm aware was using stock cams and head.......

Actually just checked and I'm telling lies, he had Mines Super camshafts........not sure what spec they are.......


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

OK, Here it is. The UKR33 with the RB30det that is on the cover of the latest NZ performance car mag has a 100% totally stock R33 GTR head, no porting, stock cams and springs, stock guides, everything stock, it was surfaced and freshened up only.

The highest reading I could get from it, on the dyno we have always used in Rotorua, in 4wd, on a rolling road was 646whp (481.5wkw), it was pretty violent and all present agreed the reading was down, by how much I won't even estimate.

By calculations done, and these were confirmed to be correct by the dyno supplier the 646whp gave us 910bhp, bullshit you may say......

he stated, and we have found it to be true, on his brand of dyno, fwd cars power loss is aprox 12-15%, rwd cars around 22% and 4wd cars aprox 29%
He said several GTR engines he has personally seen on engine dyno's lost 29%once installed in the car and run up in 4wd on his dyno.

After several back and forth 'are you sure thats right' conversations with the dyno supplier who was adiment it was correct we came up with the following:

but firstly: I think anyone would agree that a car run in 4wd would show a lower figure than if it was run in 2wd. (extra rollers, extra driveline running etc)

So, now we needed a 'known' as a reference to prove his therory. 

We got a totally stock 350z which we all know make at least 208kw.
We ran it up (in 2wd obviously) on the same dyno as the UKR33 and it made 160rwkw (loss of 22%)
We also did a XR6 turbo and a V8 commodore (all worked out to be very close to 22% loss)

We then proved that regardless of what the 'actual power' readings were, on a slippery run, in 4wd we layed down at least 3 times the power of a stock 350z. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Even based on the 22% power loss of a 2wd car, which we had proved several times, our best reading of 646whp gave us 830bhp.

We must surely add something for the big driveline losses present in a GTR running in 4wd? the % difference that has been proven at 7%

We also ran the car/extras/drivers weight through a power/speed calulator and to run 133mph on the 1/4 it must have a minimum of 720whp.

The 133mph (as stated in the article and on video) was done into a very strong head wind on a shyt track, 5 minutes after it had been raining, first time out in the car, I missed my 1st to 2nd shift point, which would have been worth a couple of 10th's at least.

I'm sure on a good track, with no head wind and a better drive from me it would have been in the very high 130's to low 140's mph.

Anyway, I don't want an argument, we have proof of 646whp in 4wd, have proof of 133mph, both a little off its potential.

Make of it what you will and I confirm, the head is totally stock.

Rob


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## RH9 (Jun 8, 2003)

canman said:


> Well Russells R34 made 414KW ATW on 2530's and as far as I'm aware was using stock cams and head.......
> 
> Actually just checked and I'm telling lies, he had Mines Super camshafts........not sure what spec they are.......


Russell had Mines Step 2 high lift cams.

It actually made 422kw @ all 4 DIN.

I think you can take anything claimed by P-Car with a grain of salt.............im sure RIPS knows 1000hp in the R33 would net him 9's at over 150mph - they arent much heavier than an R32 GTR.

You guys should be able to read between the lines but you just dont seem to be able to :thumbsup:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

RH9 said:


> I think you can take anything claimed by P-Car with a grain of salt.............im sure RIPS knows 1000hp in the R33 would net him 9's at over 150mph - they arent much heavier than an R32 GTR.



As I said, I'm not interesting arguing about it, we have the proof we have, do you accept it made considerably more than 3 times that of a stock 350Z?

And would you agree that if we put a decent shot of NOS into it and got traction on the dyno we would have got a reading considerably higher than the 646?
Make of it what you will and for the record the UKR33GTR was over 1800kg with all the extra gear and my fat arse in it. alot more than a 32.

I agree, a even slightly stripped 32 or 33 would run 9's @ 150 with the same motor easy as.


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

I don't doubt Rob's claims for a minute regarding the power that the dyno measured, but even if you have to put a set of cams in it, then it's not really a big deal is it ??

Quoting transmission losses and all that is a waste of time for the exact reason shown in Rob's post.........even with some verification, it's still an "up in the air" figure and the reality is that most of us don't give a s hit about what an engine makes at the flywheel (unless you're down the pub), but more important is what finally comes out of axles.

Maybe you should look at getting a Dynapack ?? I'm sure I can organise you a good deal ???


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## StretchGSK (Oct 24, 2006)

HI Fraser

I looked up all these threads after our little chat in the car on the weekend.
I just want to add a bit of logic to the whole flywheel figure thing.

RobI think you are mistaken in using a % to calculate the losses though the drive train of a modded car. 
What you need to do is work out the loss in hp/kw of the standard car.
This figure then practically does not change no matter how much power the car makes in the end. Why would it suddenly take 300hp to turn the drive train just becaus the car is making 900hp?
If that was the case the standard car woudl never move at all.

But as Fraser says and I agree the power at the hubs/wheels is what matters. Is there not a Dynapak near to RIPS to do a power run with?
I trust you will "arrange" him one by the time I get to be a client 

But to answer your question I cannot see any reason why the stroked RB26 would be better than the RB30.


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## [N1ZMO] (Aug 28, 2005)

canman said:


> I don't doubt Rob's claims for a minute regarding the power that the dyno measured, but even if you have to put a set of cams in it, then it's not really a big deal is it ??


Well it is when you are being told that the factory cams will do when all logic says they wont.I wont sugarcoat it,its pure bullshit  

Tweeine says it best here


> 650atw would suggest around 740-750 fly. On stock cams? regardless of CC i'm not feeling that power capability


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

StretchGSK said:


> RobI think you are mistaken in using a % to calculate the losses though the drive train of a modded car.
> What you need to do is work out the loss in hp/kw of the standard car.
> This figure then practically does not change no matter how much power the car makes in the end. Why would it suddenly take 300hp to turn the drive train just becaus the car is making 900hp?
> If that was the case the standard car woudl never move at all.


StretchGSK,

So in your analysis the diffs and gearbox wouldn't get any hotter on a dyno run regadless of whether the vehicle has 300 or 900 BHP.

In my experience, things get a bit hotter on the high BHP set-up, reason being there is more work beng done.

Lots of threads containing info on dyno losses on this site which tell much the same story.

Cheers

Hugh


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

Nizmo, I understand what you're saying and certainly there are probably easier ways to make 650whp, however unless you've been there done that as far as making a 3.0 with a basically factory RB26 head, I don't see how anyone can say it's bullshit.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone on this subject, however since spending a lot of time with customers all over the world and seeing what others thought impossible with my own eyes, I've learnt to shut up unless I've been there done that......

As I said, from my personal perspective, even if you need to get a set of cams, it's no big deal when you're gonna spend $ 30K NZ for a complete engine and turbo setup, a set of cams is chump change so it doesn't really matter either way because most people just want bang for buck at the end of the day.........regardless of RB26, 27, 28 or 30........

Stretch, gotta agree with Hugh here, there's a certain degree of percentage and a certain degree of absolutes when you're trying to "guesstimate" transmission losses, there's only one true way to gauge a power loss figure for the transmission etc etc, that's another great reason to stop dreaming about flywheel figures and start talking what counts.........at the wheels/axles/hubs.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

StretchGSK said:


> HI Fraser
> 
> I looked up all these threads after our little chat in the car on the weekend.
> I just want to add a bit of logic to the whole flywheel figure thing.
> ...



This has been covered many times in other threads and as many of the more experienced tuners on here have just confirmed, you are very wrong I'm afraid.
Your tring to say that when you put 3 times the power a transmission was designed for through it, it does not flex any more? When things inside the box don't line up properly anymore, is the box still as efficient?

Look at the blower on a top fuel dragster, it takes aprox 1000hp to drive that blower at full power, are you trying to tell me that a top fueler is making well in excess of 1000hp at idle? You must be, or it would stall wouldn't it??


OK, lets put an end to this, lets not put a power figure on R.I.P.S UK001.

The only thing I need to say is on the same dyno, tested in 4wd, R.I.P.S UK001 made MORE than 3 times the power, AT THE WHEELS, of a stock 350Z that was tested in 2wd.

You decide how much power a stock 350Z makes, you then also can add what you consider to be a fair amount extra for the fact UK001 was running in 4wd not 2wd, you can then also add what you consider to be a fair amount for the decent shot of NOS we hadn't yet used (remember a 125hp shot will give more than 125whp in a good turbo car) and tell me what figure you come up with as a 'fair and true' engine hp figure. 

I want your workings, your logic behind your answer, and I'm really looking forward to your answer, it will be interesting to say the least.

Rob


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## StretchGSK (Oct 24, 2006)

HI Rob 
My post was not intended to sound so matter of fact. 
What I should of added is "correct me if my logic is wrong"
So far my modded car experiance comes from lightly tuned Subaru's and it looks like the GTR world is alltogether on another level.

So forgive me if i came across as a knowitall.
I am here to learn and will hopefully make less and less posts like that as the time goes by. Maybe Fraser will be kind enough to thrash out the details with me when next we meet.

Anyway enough about "at the flywheel...." it really is irrelevant.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

OK lets leave it at 650whp on a 4wd roller dyno with power to spare.
Not sure what it would show on a dynapack hub dyno but I would imagine a little more.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

My thoughts on drivetrain losses have been for a long time that a true figure would be a fixed amount + a rising percentage.

so you have a minimum amount of energy required to turn the mechanical components, then as you turn those same components faster you need more and more energy to do so. As they turn faster the generate more heat and noise and therefore become less efficient.

BUt when all said and done the only meaningfull figures out of a dyno are the comparative ones that measure the differences between states of tune.

Simon


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Simonh said:


> My thoughts on drivetrain losses have been for a long time that a true figure would be a fixed amount + a rising percentage.
> 
> so you have a minimum amount of energy required to turn the mechanical components, then as you turn those same components faster you need more and more energy to do so. As they turn faster the generate more heat and noise and therefore become less efficient.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more.

When tested on the same dyno under the same conditions, UK001 made substantially more power than our 10.2 second skyline ever had.:thumbsup:


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## deef (Aug 4, 2005)

stil pretty AWESOME !!


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