# European Mappers - Any recommendations etc?



## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

As my engine build should be finished soon, I need to plan ahead and think about buying an aftermarket ECU and then have it mapped. 

I know there are some talented mappers out in Europe as well see some really nice cars making good power and drivability. I am interested to see what is out there as a possible alternative to the UK - any recommendation so I can investigate and look at my options.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Maxxtuning, Bolle had his done there, silver R33 gtr


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## David (Apr 25, 2003)

I used Greg at Protuner for all my cars and never been dissapointed.

Protuner | Engine tuning and ECU mapping specialists

Every time I visit he has a high power skyline Gtr in, at the last visit he was rebuilding and mapping an R34 with a Ripz rb30 as the previous owner had become disappointed with the service from RK.

My second choice would be Ryan G of Syvecs but due to his popularity he is very difficult to get hold book in a reasonable timeframe


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

Ryan g and pat for syvecs! 
I guess it's ecu dependent! 
Rk's race car was mapped by Ryan g 
Mark @ Mgt's r32 Gtr track car was mapped by Ryan g 
Most of svms are Ryan g 
Jm imports r35 was Ryan g
Jamie p Ryan g 
Etc etc... 

I know Ryan travels around the world mapping he's that good! 
But the only problem is he will only map syvecs as I understand it, the only down side is he has very little time!

I don't know any1 good for link as we don't use many, sorry!


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm not interested in drag cars being mapped or big power cars that owners do not care about driving on the road where you need that part throttle refinement and feel like an oem ecu map.

I will speak to Ryan and see what he says and if can can do what I am asking for. If not I will continue to search for a good dedicate mapper and look to Europe for some who takes pride in the work and not care about just making money out of you.


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## Bolle (Feb 8, 2005)

But I do care about road driving. I might have a lot of power but I can still get trough a exhaust emissions for MOT. 

Check out maxxtuning.se and check out customers cars.
He has also made his own ECU.


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

Bolle said:


> But I do care about road driving. I might have a lot of power but I can still get trough a exhaust emissions for MOT.
> 
> Check out maxxtuning.se and check out customers cars.
> He has also made his own ECU.


I enjoyed watching your car on youtube 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lqYatbzAM0


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Spoke to Ryan G who recommended a Syvecs Ecu but was an interesting conversation more so about part throttle and wanting the car to feel like oem.


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

ryan mapped his/my r35 to absolute perfection on syvecs 

it is genuinely perfect, not a hiccup anywhere, but it will take time and cost money £300 on a dyno for the morning wont cut it.

ryan is as honest as they come aswell


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Mark Harrison at Owen Developments.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

When I was looking turbos I contacted Owen dev I was not impressed and the less said the better. Out of principle I would not give them my money. 

Ryan came across well and honest does inspire confidence after I told him what I want and the kinds of cars I had experienced with poor maps.

Just waiting on a quote from him.


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## alpeag (Dec 1, 2006)

If you looking outside of the UK, I recommend Robbie at TDP in Wicklow, Ireland. I've had a great service form him over the years.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

FRRACER said:


> When I was looking turbos I contacted Owen dev I was not impressed and the less said the better. Out of principle I would not give them my money.


That's fine but you asked about mapping not turbos, Mark is the top MoTeC mapper and I found him to be excellent without the BS others who have been mentioned come out with. 



FRRACER said:


> Ryan came across well and honest does inspire confidence after I told him what I want and the kinds of cars I had experienced with poor maps.
> 
> Just waiting on a quote from him.


Hope you have better luck than the TS car.


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## David (Apr 25, 2003)

matt j said:


> Hope you have better luck than the TS car.


What happened with the TS car?

I have followed Ryan also on the Supra forum and not aware of any unhappy people there.

I am genuinely interested as I have an S6 waiting to be fitted to my car


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

David said:


> What happened with the TS car?


You'll have to ask the owner David, it was on Facebook a while back.


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## David (Apr 25, 2003)

matt j said:


> You'll have to ask the owner David, it was on Facebook a while back.


Who is the owner?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I haven't committed to anyone yet it am just doing my research.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

I hear nothing but good things about Ryan and I too have done a fair bit of research. Ryan is my first choice to map the S8 on the GTR.

Im not au fait with the details of what you refer to Matt but it would be unusual for a mapper of Ryan's experience to destroy an engine due to map alone. Ultra high performance engines can (and do!!) let go on the dyno on initial mapping for various reasons...


TT


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

EDIT: None of my business and no axe to grind


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Rod @ RB Motorsport.
:thumbsup:
bob


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

matt j said:


> You'll have to ask the owner David, it was on Facebook a while back.


Thanks for some of the Owners bringing this to my attention.

Quite Surprise by Matts interest to bring this up as have never had any dealing with him but Mark H who must do his mapping is a smart guy so i have no issues if it was a dig to try promote Mark more.

The FB Post in Question is here on Jan9

https://www.facebook.com/JapPartBreaker

The New Owner of the TS car was not pleased with a few people after he had alot of work done on the car and it would not work correctly on the dyno. As a calibrator i did my best to fix some of these at the dyno that were within my skillset as well as make a list of issues that needed sorting but being in the middle of the Garages that worked on the car and the owner is a difficult position. I did not want to get too involved to not upset either parties and the owner seemed to think i was taking side and blame myself for not spotting some of issues. I am not a qualified mechanic and i did not want the customer spending lots of dyno time cost to fix the mechnical problems while on it. So pulled it off and suggested taking back to the garage who did the work.

Although i went out of my way to fix some of the problems it seems it was not good enough and after some txt back and fourth i decided it was best to scrap the invoice for my time and not work on the car again.

The Previous owner of the car who i know well agreed this was the best solution and marked it as a lesson learned.

Ryan


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## rageyourdream (Feb 19, 2007)

Greg at protuner is pretty good, just mapped my gtr, was running a tweenie rob map from a few years back, fitted new injectors, fuel rail, boost controller and he's done a brilliant job


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

There seems to be a worrying trend of skyline tuners engine work failing. Not good publicity which ever way you look at it. 

Ryan hence why the call this morning as I have lost faith in most people here in the UK because of shoddy workmanship and no pride or care in the work they do. Appreciate the time taken to go through my questions and concerns re mapping and what I am looking for.

PS I have sent you an email as per our conversation this morning.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

rageyourdream said:


> Greg at protuner is pretty good, just mapped my gtr, was running a tweenie rob map from a few years back, fitted new injectors, fuel rail, boost controller and he's done a brilliant job


Anyone can map a car for full power run and make big numbers, the hard bit is part throttle and refining the map for road use. I am not interested in the kind of maps are being smacked out day in day out and those that are suited to skyline dragsters. I want something as good as an oem map.


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## rageyourdream (Feb 19, 2007)

FRRACER said:


> Anyone can map a car for full power run and make big numbers, the hard bit is part throttle and refining the map for road use. I am not interested in the kind of maps are being smacked out day in day out and those that are suited to skyline dragsters. I want something as good as an oem map.


That's exactly how I had it mapped, it's perfect for road use


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

FRRACER said:


> Anyone can map a car for full power run and make big numbers, the hard bit is part throttle and refining the map for road use. I am not interested in the kind of maps are being smacked out day in day out and those that are suited to skyline dragsters. I want something as good as an oem map.



I can give 2 examples of perfect everyday use road driving maps. 

my r32 gtr was mapped by garth at mgt on an old pfc and afms and it was faultless, good on fuel, no flat spots/stuttering, me and the missus used the car as a road car at upto 450 hp at 1.2 bar and in all situations in traffic, start stop street driving the engine was perfect the only issue was the single plate clutch pedal feel was terrible.

my r35 is perfect, just cruise around at 2000 rpm in 6th gear smooth as silk, or nail it and unleash 950 hp, absolute perfection in all areas no stutters, coughs nothing and again when taking it steady surprisingly good on fuel for a 3.8 litre 1800kg car, i can return in the 20s mpg which i think is remarkable tbh. 

i don't ask for a fixed price anymore when mapping its the wrong way to do it imo, there is an hourly rate and it takes as long as it takes to do the job properly.


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## Natbrat300 (Mar 6, 2012)

I can give another example, my 750bhp R32 was also mapped by Garth at MGT and is also perfect for everyday use, no stutters, coughs and can easily pull smoothly in any gear. Admittedly you wouldn't want to drive it everyday, because you would soon be broke and have a left calf muscle the size of Arnie's!

I also agree with you about the fixed pricing, on both occasions that Garth mapped my car, it was a case of staying on it until it was finished. I have got no complaints.



scoooby slayer said:


> I can give 2 examples of perfect everyday use road driving maps.
> 
> my r32 gtr was mapped by garth at mgt on an old pfc and afms and it was faultless, good on fuel, no flat spots/stuttering, me and the missus used the car as a road car at upto 450 hp at 1.2 bar and in all situations in traffic, start stop street driving the engine was perfect the only issue was the single plate clutch pedal feel was terrible.
> 
> ...


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## steve_gts4 (Nov 30, 2009)

Another shout out for Garth at MGT. He mapped my R32 w/ PFC and it feels like an OEM map on the street, to me.
I recently did a 600 mile round trip to Cornwall and back in the car, and it averaged around 23mpg.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Ryan.g said:


> Quite Surprise by Matts interest to bring this up as have never had any dealing with him but Mark H who must do his mapping is a smart guy so i have no issues if it was a dig to try promote Mark more.


Read what I wrote Ryan, there was no promoting of Mark other than to say he did an excellent job of mapping my car, truth be told, he did a lot more as well but I didn't mention any of that. Mark works separate to OD turbos contrary to the post made after mine. 




Ryan.g said:


> I am not a qualified mechanic.


I work in Oil and Gas and spend a lot of time working on control systems Ryan. I find it very odd how someone can be responsible for calibrations and not know how the system fundamentally works. Glad the owner got a satisfactory result, I'd have expected nothing less as a customer myself.


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## David (Apr 25, 2003)

FRRACER said:


> Anyone can map a car for full power run and make big numbers, the hard bit is part throttle and refining the map for road use. I am not interested in the kind of maps are being smacked out day in day out and those that are suited to skyline dragsters. I want something as good as an oem map.


That is exactly what Greg does not do, if you speak to any of his customers you would know he is incredibly anal about drivability. He spent approx 10% of his time concentrating on power the rest of the time is part load and be wont let a car go until be is happy with it. My simple 1.4 racecar we spent the best part of 1.5 days mapping and finally agreed it was finished at 3am.

For me the results speak for themselves the car went from being at the back of the feild to consistantly front row and winning. I am finding one of the areas I seem to be considerably faster is part load coming out of corners.


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## GTR Cook (Apr 22, 2008)

Mark at Abbey, couldn't be happier with how the car drives on the road.


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Me too with Mark at Abbey. Happy to take you out Younes so you can see how it goes.


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

matt j said:


> Read what I wrote Ryan, there was no promoting of Mark other than to say he did an excellent job of mapping my car, truth be told, he did a lot more as well but I didn't mention any of that. Mark works separate to OD turbos contrary to the post made after mine.
> 
> 
> 
> I work in Oil and Gas and spend a lot of time working on control systems Ryan. I find it very odd how someone can be responsible for calibrations and not know how the system fundamentally works. Glad the owner got a satisfactory result, I'd have expected nothing less as a customer myself.


ryan knows how it works matt im sure all I think he means is his speciality is management, best to be a master of something than an average joe of everything 

an average joe wouldn't be mapping in Dubai regularly, ryan is a wizard imo


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

scoooby slayer said:


> ryan knows how it works matt im sure all I think he means is his speciality is management, best to be a master of something than an average joe of everything


We're kind of singing from the same hymn sheet Carl, but knowing engine management and having a knowledge of engines should have led to diagnosis of the fault. It didn't and that's why the customer was clearly unhappy in this case. 

It's great when everything is working and your only job is to map but, as I've seen many times, '*tuners*' don't always hand over a perfectly running car to 'mappers'. It is a double edged sword and one that obviously caught Ryan out. 



scoooby slayer said:


> an average joe wouldn't be mapping in Dubai regularly, ryan is a wizard imo


We need to take this back a step Carl, at no point have I said Ryan doesn't know mapping.


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

matt j said:


> I work in Oil and Gas and spend a lot of time working on control systems Ryan. I find it very odd how someone can be responsible for calibrations and not know how the system fundamentally works. Glad the owner got a satisfactory result, I'd have expected nothing less as a customer myself.


My post stated that I’m not a qualified mechanic, I am however an engineer with full understanding of how powertrain control systems work with 9 years experience. It is with this knowledge that I design most of the new products that work with the Syvecs range on newer complicated cars including full gearbox control and chassis management. 

A few days a week I do some private work through my old company and this is how the job with the TS car came around. One of the tasks of a professional calibrator is to manage the day when it comes to calibrating and weigh up costs for the owners. In this scenario the car was riddled with mechanical problems and after trying to fix some of the issues to get a good base calibration loaded it was apparent that they were not going to be all fixed at the dyno. I felt it was best to save the customer money by removing the car from the dyno and returning to the garage who did work on the car to get them resolve… Paying for my time as well as dyno time while trying to fix all of issues was not logical/

With 95% of jobs I do the person who built the project is present to assist with mechanical issues. This was not the case on this job so after removing the car the customer became unhappy and after blaming me for not listing out all the issues I could spot I felt it was not a customer I want to work with. The lesson learnt as I describe in my post above is with big projects like this is the staff who built the project need to be present.

Ryan


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Ryan.g said:


> With 95% of jobs I do the person who built the project is present to assist with mechanical issues. This was not the case on this job so after removing the car the customer became unhappy and after blaming me for not listing out all the issues I could spot I felt it was not a customer I want to work with. The lesson learnt as I describe in my post above is with big projects like this is the staff who built the project need to be present.
> 
> Ryan


Completely agree Ryan and I feel the tuner in question let you both down; but I also agree with the customer that you should have seen very basic errors and rectified them.


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## Ryan.g (Jul 27, 2007)

matt j said:


> Completely agree Ryan and I feel the tuner in question let you both down; but I also agree with the customer that you should have seen very basic errors and rectified them.


The problem was Matt that even if I did fix them it still would not be in a state to fully calibrate. It wasn't just one or two issues. Why pay me (which will be more than a mechanic) and Dyno hire costs to fix something that the owner has paid for already.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Ryan.g said:


> The problem was Matt that even if I did fix them it still would not be in a state to fully calibrate.


I think it's fair to say it could have been in a state to fully calibrate but not to it's full potential and looking deeper at it, I wouldn't have had much faith in the engine anyway but that is just MHO.



Ryan.g said:


> It wasn't just one or two issues. Why pay me (which will be more than a mechanic) and Dyno hire costs to fix something that the owner has paid for already.


Exactly the reason I choose not to use a mapper who does not own/operate his own dyno. Been there and got bitten by it in the past.

As I said earlier, no axe to grind and definitely not saying anything against your mapping but I do side with the customer in this case.


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

Another happy Ryan G customer here! Very pleased with the mapping Ryan has carried out on my Stage 4 R35, car drives superbly on the road, nice and smooth power delivery and it was the quickest Stage 4 car at last years Marham 30-130 day. I use the car most days as a daily driver, it returns good mpg figures and I'm more than happy to recommend Ryans work to any other owners.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

The problem of recommendations for the usual tuners is something I would take with a pinch of salt as everyone has their utmost loyalty towards their own tuner. 

If I do decide to go syvecs then I will use Ryan for the mapping work. I have heard more horror stories about others and some on a consistent basis and also sampled some of their cars and I was not impressed. I don't need to name names but I would not want to spend my money with them and end up with something poor as a result.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

FRRACER said:


> The problem of recommendations for the usual tuners is something I would take with a pinch of salt as everyone has their utmost loyalty towards their own tuner.
> 
> If I do decide to go syvecs then I will use Ryan for the mapping work. I have heard more horror stories about others and some on a consistent basis and also sampled some of their cars and I was not impressed. I don't need to name names but I would not want to spend my money with them and end up with something poor as a result.


Why do you think mappers from overseas will do a better job? The way i see it is all tuners have there 'fans'. But going oversea you are potentially not subjected to that should you have not asked on a public forum. Now you will get potentially biased recommendation by tuners fans thus back to square one. 
Personally i'd use a UK tuner.
When i got my car mapped it took 40 hours over a year. Cold start mapping in the winter, hot start mapping in the summer. Really you need a mapper with a climate chamber.


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

I only go on what I know and experience. I'm not a fan boy and if I'm not happy, the person generally picks up on that pretty quickly!
Abbey, who did the mapping on mine have many years experience mapping road, track and drag gtrs, so don't discount them, as they probably have more experience than European tuners collectively iro the rb unit.
I was specific about having a responsive car, with large area under the curve and that is what Mark gave me with good manners in town.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Ryan g and pat for syvecs!
> I guess it's ecu dependent!
> Rk's race car was mapped by Ryan g
> Mark @ Mgt's r32 Gtr track car was mapped by Ryan g
> ...



I thought Both RK and MGTs cars were running Life Racing ECUs and not mapped by Ryan?!


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## The Brigand (Mar 18, 2014)

Chip Racing in Switzerland.


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

FRRACER said:


> Any recommendations?





FRRACER said:


> The problem of recommendations...


PMSL


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

I asked for mappers in Europe, not in the UK LOL


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## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

minifreak said:


> I thought Both RK and MGTs cars were running Life Racing ECUs and not mapped by Ryan?!


Very very similar Ecu's!


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

FRRACER said:


> I asked for mappers in Europe, not in the UK LOL


UK _is_ in Europe so you have been given recommendations for mapper that fit your requirements.

Or are we missing something?


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

FRRACER said:


> I asked for mappers in Europe, not in the UK LOL


Geographic pedantry aside, whether a mapper is based in UK, Timbuktu or on Mars, recommendations come from happy customers. Don't you think customers in mainland Europe will be equally as loyal to their tuners?
The pinch of salt (sic) that you seem keen to apply to UK mappers should therefore be applied universally which makes your initial post a nonsense.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

moleman said:


> Geographic pedantry aside, whether a mapper is based in UK, Timbuktu or on Mars, recommendations come from happy customers. Don't you think customers in mainland Europe will be equally as loyal to their tuners?
> The pinch of salt (sic) that you seem keen to apply to UK mappers should therefore be applied universally which makes your initial post a nonsense.


This.

The problem with ALL tuners is that you cannot satisfy 100% of the customers 100% of the time no matter what you do. There are tuners that seem to take more shortcuts and shortchange more customers but generally quality wins out. People like Abbey, RB and RK would not still be in business for the length of time they have been if they were bad at what they do.

The problem with forums is you usually get two types of people that post up about their experiences, that that want to tell the world how badly they have been treated and those that want to sing the praises from the rooftops so it can be difficult to get a balanced view.

I have used a number of Skyline tuners and had good and bad experiences with most of them, there are some I wouldn't trust with a meccano set and some that I would happily use again. If you think that somehow magically going outside of the UK is going to get you a better, cheaper map then I fear you are going to be dissapointed.

My advice would be to talk to a few of them, explain what you want to achieve with your engine/Map and listen to what they say.

I was very happy with the map that Abbey did for my car, with what was a poor configuration of components for what I actually wanted to get from it (TB too big, injectors on the edge of capacity, sub optimal ECU) I got the best comprimise without pushing the upper limits and risking the engine. I also got great advice about what to change to acheive what I actually wanted.


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

moleman said:


> Geographic pedantry aside, whether a mapper is based in UK, Timbuktu or on Mars, recommendations come from happy customers. Don't you think customers in mainland Europe will be equally as loyal to their tuners?
> The pinch of salt (sic) that you seem keen to apply to UK mappers should therefore be applied universally which makes your initial post a nonsense.


+1

Whether a mapper is based in the UK or abroad is fairly irrelevant unless you're trying to save money or have a holiday when its being mapped. If you have any issues afterwards it'll be a hell of a lot easier dealing with a local mapper in the UK than having to travel abroad to have a map amended. 

Personally I'd say do your research and pick which ECU you want to use and then pick a mapper with proven experience of mapping that unit otherwise you're paying for them to learn how to map it and it'll cost you more in hours spent. 
Also if you really want driveability on the road then use a mapper that is prepared to also map on the road and be prepared to spend some time doing it. A rolling road/hub dyno can't simulate varying airflow through the front of the car.

Cheers

Stu


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Just get Ryan g to map it on a syvecs and be done with it, he is one of the best mappers in the uk and Europe so it will be a hard push to find some one what actually knows the software better than him.


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## wardiz (Dec 23, 2008)

mambastu said:


> +1
> 
> Whether a mapper is based in the UK or abroad is fairly irrelevant unless you're trying to save money or have a holiday when its being mapped. If you have any issues afterwards it'll be a hell of a lot easier dealing with a local mapper in the UK than having to travel abroad to have a map amended.
> 
> ...


I don't think the "moving speed" of the car as anything to do with the capacity of the engine to pump air but it is more related to engine speed. Actually a load bearing dyno allows you to meet the conditions of most if not all the cells in the map of an ECU. You can't achieve that on a road.
But agreed on what you said about dealing with a local mapper rather than abroad.


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## Natbrat300 (Mar 6, 2012)

There is a slight difference on the road which is why engines generally tend to boost up by 0.1 bar more on the road after being set up on a dyno. It is not the moving speed which causes this, but the weight of the vehicle continuing to push the engine round. A load bearing dyno can't simulate this aspect, because all it does is create resistance to simulate the weight of the vehicle, but once you release the resistance the weight is effectively gone.

I am sure most of the good mappers check the cars drivability on the road after mapping on a dyno.





wardiz said:


> I don't think the "moving speed" of the car as anything to do with the capacity of the engine to pump air but it is more related to engine speed. Actually a load bearing dyno allows you to meet the conditions of most if not all the cells in the map of an ECU. You can't achieve that on a road.
> But agreed on what you said about dealing with a local mapper rather than abroad.


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## wardiz (Dec 23, 2008)

Natbrat300 said:


> There is a slight difference on the road which is why engines generally tend to boost up by 0.1 bar more on the road after being set up on a dyno. It is not the moving speed which causes this, but the weight of the vehicle continuing to push the engine round. A load bearing dyno can't simulate this aspect, because all it does is create resistance to simulate the weight of the vehicle, but once you release the resistance the weight is effectively gone.
> 
> I am sure most of the good mappers check the cars drivability on the road after mapping on a dyno.


Not checking the drivability on the road after a mapping on a dyno would be a mistake to me. I knew there was a slight difference between the road and dyno but I didn't know where it was coming from thanks for the info.


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## 8pot (Dec 29, 2002)

have you looked at Mclaren? They do some nice ecus if your looking for the best


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

R32 Combat said:


> UK _is_ in Europe so you have been given recommendations for mapper that fit your requirements.
> 
> Or are we missing something?


I would have otherwise asked about UK mappers don't you think? 

At the end of the day I have the right to chose a mapper outside the UK I am not obliged to use the usual Skyline specialists. Even for my engine build I am using someone else rather than those that everyone else uses.

I created a thread as I wanted to hear from members on the continent about their experiences with mappers in their countries and not why I should be using a UK tuner mapper.

Dan that said with Ryan he does indeed come across as the most knowledgable and also maps cars account to AMT for pretty much all the Skyline tuners that to me say a lot of about him as a mapper. Unfortunately that means the Syvecs is my only option. Anyway still have some time become I need to commit to an ecu option.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

Isn't Ryan based in the UK?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Ryan is and if you read carefully I said he is the only one thus far who seems to know what he is talking about.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

FRRACER said:


> Ryan is and if you read carefully I said he is the only one thus far who seems to know what he is talking about.


Yeah, all the other mappers seem not as good.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

matt j said:


> As I said earlier, no axe to grind and definitely not saying anything against your mapping but I do side with the customer in this case.


Have to disagree with your POV on this one.....

Ryan's services were employed to do the calibration on the ECU nothing else. Its clearly the mechanics job to sort out the mechanical side of things and present a car fit to dyno. 
If mechanical problems arise during calibration then I suggest that this is NOT in the scope of the mappers remit to fix. Granted, minor obvious issues (such as a loose injector clip, holed rad etc) should be fairly straightforward to fix but it should not be the mappers job to get involved in any more complex issues than that.
Ryan sells his services as a mapper, whereas folks like MGT, Abbey etc have the full suite of garage (&mechanical) services to offer should more fundamental issues arise. I think you are expecting Ryan to do the same when that's clearly NOT his remit. I have no doubt he'd help with diagnoses where he can but that's not his job!


TT


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

TT which version of the Syvecs are you running?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Again, a friend took his car to get properly mapped, previously it was mapped by a well known Skyline tuner on here and to say the map was poor is an understatement!! There were lots of issues, I can go into detail but it is up to him if he wants to speak out on not.

Time and time again people are being short changed and corners are being cut, is it any wonder that when someone asked about who to use for Engine building I said to look elsewhere.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Again, a friend took his car to get properly mapped, previously it was mapped by a well known Skyline tuner on here and to say the map was poor is an understatement!! There were lots of issues, I can go into detail but it is up to him if he wants to speak out on not.
> 
> Time and time again people are being short changed and corners are being cut, is it any wonder that when someone asked about who to use for Engine building I said to look elsewhere.


You must be talking about amyrvyn car? I have had my syvecs base map done by romain levesque he works along side Ryan g and syvecs. I've known romain a few years he mapped my honda k20 turbo and he has done a fantastic job on the car it runs and drives like a standard car even with the big 280 step 3 cams. He is finishing off the final tune on Monday but very happy so far


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

As said no names mentioned. I need to look at my mapping options as my engine is almost done. Why cant people who claim to be mappers do an honest job and not cut corners and give a sub standard service? Is it too hard? 

There should be a review site like trust a trader or similar where people rate them good and bad!

I am thinking of looking to get a mapper in from Japan, I have been talking to him for a few weeks now and is happy to come out, but will cost, not as expensive as you might think, would work if there is a group of us like 5 or 6 people. It is an idea that was mentioned and could work out.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

Abbey, Rod Bell, RK.

all proven time and again, but no bring someone in from Japan I am sure they will do a much better job.


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## GTR Cook (Apr 22, 2008)

FRRACER said:


> As said no names mentioned. I need to look at my mapping options as my engine is almost done. Why cant people who claim to be mappers do an honest job and not cut corners and give a sub standard service? Is it too hard?
> 
> There should be a review site like trust a trader or similar where people rate them good and bad!
> 
> I am thinking of looking to get a mapper in from Japan, I have been talking to him for a few weeks now and is happy to come out, but will cost, not as expensive as you might think, would work if there is a group of us like 5 or 6 people. It is an idea that was mentioned and could work out.


There are mappers out there that do an honest job, dont cut corners or give a sub standard service, mine was mapped by such a person.

Good luck which ever way you go.


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## Skeeed3r (Nov 14, 2011)

In Germany:
Uwe from High Import Performance


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

You just need to pick one of the best tunners in uk like Ryan g,pat, romain Paul from zen performance. Ryan g travels all round the world mapping the worlds fastest cars r35s lambo's etc. I don't think you will find many people better than Ryan and pat.


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

@GTR COOk

Who exactly mapped your car please?

Tweenie used to get sent abroad alot to map cars so do not see a problem with bringing someone here. The only problem I foresee is if the mapper brought in thinks your car not suitable for the map desired. Some sort of mechanical insufficiency or problem he could not sort immediately. 
To have someone truely independent that will take time and map a car WITH you could be a great thing.........imo


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## msingh (Sep 14, 2004)

You could give Mark shead a call MADEVLEOPMENTS, he has been out of the country to map cars from memory he has been as far as the Caribbean and various other places, he is in Marlow nr London.

His work is considered very high quality and from personal experience he is a honest guy who takes pride in his work.

If you need his number let me know but I think if you google him his mobile will pop up.

Mark is the uk distributor for EMTRON ecu's from my limited knowledge these new ecu's are very trick.
He also takes considerable time and care like many other UK mappers mentioned here on tailoring the map so the car is nice to drive part throttle/ low speed which I know you have intimated is of paramount importance.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Years ago I got an ECU chip mapped by V Max in Germany, the driveability was amazing as was the map itself. 

One of their UK authorised agents decided to map their own chips with a V Max badge and was simply rubbish, poor power, horrible driveability unfortunately at the time of buying the chip I was told by V Max Germany to use the UK agent. After they discovered what he sold me, they sent me a original chip.

Again, no one here seems to inspire confidence. These places need to realise that they must strive to give the customer that top class service.


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## eddy90 (Oct 3, 2012)

Got Mine Mapped from jonne of Sky Engineering in netherlands. Knows Skylines better than the Most. Does really Great Mapping tune.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Sky seem to be getting some good reviews. I have some options that interest me be it someone in Europe or Japan.


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## msingh (Sep 14, 2004)

Its personal opinion and after all your money so you have the right to be discerning but the fact that guys from Europe bring their cars all the way to madevleopments to me speaks volumes.
I would give him a call and as your only in London you could probably visit him. He never cuts corners and over 2 decades of work is testament to that.


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

Of all these ...who can actually map the HKS ECU?


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## msingh (Sep 14, 2004)

Mark shead from memory only does VIPEC/AUTRONIC/Emtron

But you could call and ask I may be wrong.


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## GTR Cook (Apr 22, 2008)

Mel HKS said:


> @GTR COOk
> 
> Who exactly mapped your car please?
> 
> ...


Mark at Abbey mapped mine, gave honest feedback about what route i went re ECU etc and gave me a very smooth map that gained more power and more MPG aswell. Advice and information was spot on, couldn't be happier.

Have heard good things about Jolly Green Monster, Simon Roe? i think in the Scooby world. Might be worth speaking to him aswell.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Years ago I got an ECU chip mapped by V Max in Germany, the driveability was amazing as was the map itself.
> 
> One of their UK authorised agents decided to map their own chips with a V Max badge and was simply rubbish, poor power, horrible driveability unfortunately at the time of buying the chip I was told by V Max Germany to use the UK agent. After they discovered what he sold me, they sent me a original chip.
> 
> Again, no one here seems to inspire confidence. These places need to realise that they must strive to give the customer that top class service.



Just because you had a bad experience previously doesn't mean all uk mappers are the same. Why doesn't mappers like Ryan g pat zen performance not inspire confidence?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

With Ryan he only maps Syvecs to limits me to buying a Syvecs ECU. I don't know anything about Pat so might look it up.

The point I am making as discussed in the engine building thread that there have been many people some of whom we know here who have been fleeced of their hard earned. I do know if it is a UK thing where us customers are seen as cash cows by people who simply care about making money but do not take pride in their workmanship and to provide a good service. I have seen too many people being disappointed with their engine build mapping work or general tuning.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

you have no interest in listening to any one of the number of people who have listed very positive experiences with well known UK tuners with extensive experience of carrying out exactly the work you want doing.

You seem to think that the prices they charge are somehow not consistent with what you are prepared to pay so therefore it must be rip off britain or they are out to fleece you.

How about they are actually running a business in order to make a profit, and that experience, knowledge, backup and reputaion cost money to maintain?

I have no idea what you do for a living but I would guess that at some point either you or the business you work for get paid and make a profit, do you encourage your customers to go overseas and get the same services at a more cost effective rate?

Have you actually picked up the phone with any one of the tuners mentioned here, or ones that sponsor the forum and discussed your needs to get them to provide a cost for the work and even a little advice on if it can be done the way you want?


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

I think its a shame that alot of the Jap scene uses HKS Fcon and that it is a capable ECU yet we are quite limited to mappers of the same ECU.

Here is HKS' list of Power writers (some shouldn't even be there and some that map are not even on it):


Abbey Motorsport. 
Unit 1&2 Stonehall Farm, Woodhurst Lane, Oxted, Surrey RH8 9HJ. 
Tel: +44 (0)1883 732331
Fax: +44 (0)1883 718296
Website

Austec Racing 
International Park Priestley Way Crawley West Sussex RH10 9NT
Tel: +44 (0) 1293 531 080
Fax: +44 (0) 1293 531 082
Website



East Coast Customs 
Unit 50D, Enterprise Cresent Ballinderry Industrial Estate Ballinderry Road Lisburn, Co. Antrim Northern Ireland BT28 2BP
Tel: +44 (0)28 9266 6555
Fax: +44 (0)28 9266 6550
Website

MGT Racing Ltd 
Unit 3 Colbek Court Haunchwood Park Drive Nuneaton Warwichshire CV10 9SP
Tel: +44 (0)24 7639 8344
Fax: 
Website

Perfect Touch 
Unit G Bingley Road Hoddesdon EN11 0NX 
Tel: +44 (0)1992 443900
Fax: +44 (0)1992 443908
Website

PJ Motorsport & Performance Centre 
Unit 17, Phoenix Road Ind. Est. Phoenix Road Wednesfield Wolverhampton WV11 3PX
Tel: +44 (0) 1902 862882
Fax: +44 (0)1902 730053
Website

Protuner 
Unit 9 Weights Farm Weights Lane Redditch B97 6RG 
Tel: +44 (0) 7973 359880
Fax: 
Website

RE-WORX 
Unit 8, Venture Court Ackworth Road Ind. Est. Hilsea Portsmouth PO3 5RY
Tel: +44 (0)2392 698 100
Fax: +44 (0)2392 664 912
Website

Rising Sun Performance 
Unit 3 Manor Farm North Street Ropley Hampshire SO24 0DF
Tel: +44 (0)1962 773729
Fax: +44 (0)1962 773869
Website

Sinclaire Motorsport
Sinclaire House Bryant Avenue Romford Essex RM3 0AP
Tel: +44 (0)1708 343904
Fax: +44 (0)1708 381187
Website

TDI North 
21 & 22 Aston Court, Kingsland Grange, Warrington, WA1 4SG
Tel: 01925 289100
Fax: 01925 827036
Website

Torque Developments Int. PLC 
Unit 5, The I O Centre Motherwell Way Thurrock Essex RM20 3LE
Tel: 0800 107 32 50
Fax: 0800 107 32 70
Website

TR Racing 
Unit 11a, New Horizon Business Park Harlow Essex CM19 5FN
Tel: +44 (0)1279 443134
Fax: 
Website

Track n' Road Performance
Unit 9 Noakes Industrial Estate New Road Rainham Essex RM13 9EB
Tel: 01708 869189
Fax: 
Website


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

TDI North, Eurospec2000, Ryan G, Sky-Engineering, Maxxtuning, Garth MGT

Just get a link G4 and be done..


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Simonh said:


> you have no interest in listening to any one of the number of people who have listed very positive experiences with well known UK tuners with extensive experience of carrying out exactly the work you want doing.
> 
> You seem to think that the prices they charge are somehow not consistent with what you are prepared to pay so therefore it must be rip off britain or they are out to fleece you.
> 
> ...


You said it mate rip off Britain lol

I spoke to all the usual suspects and if I did not use them for engine building I will certainly not be using them for mapping my engine. When you hear about engines damaged by bore wash that is a cause for concern. I don't have time nor money to fight legal battles.

I buy all my parts from abroad even if it means I pay import taxes the items are still cheaper than what they are being sold in the UK.

I am not one of those open cheque book types how ever if I like something and it makes sense to me to buy it I will do so.

I run a business as a living and my work ethics have kept it going well for many years. If I was to do shoddy work for my clients I would be bankrupt and on the dole. It is not in my nature to cut corners and BS people around. What drives me mad is people who rip you off and it has happened a few times to me in the part best of all when they tried to sell me my own fuel from my race car! Just shows how desperate they were to make a quick buck.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

In Japan they release v4 of the F Con and yes it is very capable Ecu but still not available in Europe and only as good as the mapper. I agree about the comments below, some should not be power writers.



Mel HKS said:


> I think its a shame that alot of the Jap scene uses HKS Fcon and that it is a capable ECU yet we are quite limited to mappers of the same ECU.
> 
> Here is HKS' list of Power writers (some shouldn't even be there and some that map are not even on it):
> 
> ...


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

you run your own business, do you make a profit and are there other people out there who do the same thing you do but for less money?

I am going to assume yes, but your customers still use you and I expect that is a mixture of your knowledge/competance/history and customer service.

Why you think any of the well established UK tuners are any different to that I do not understand, do they not have a right to make a profit in the same way that you do? 

there are always places that carry out "sharp" practices, they are usually not difficult to avoid. I always go with my gut feel on a business after talking to them about what I want, twice I had been on the wrong end of that, both occasions I ignored my gut feel because the tuners in question had such good reviews.

This is a pointless discussion, you have no interest in taking onboard any other points of view or experiences. I sincerly hope that when you find you none "rip-off britain" mapper that he does a good job for you.


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## simplysideways (Apr 17, 2007)

You've obviously made your mind up that your not going to use any of the usuals ,that list above is fairly old I think, just some of the names mentioned are not trading anymore.
Either which way you are going to have to trust someone to map your car , every trader has disgruntled customers and you prob have yourself at no fault of yours ! It's a risk full stop .
Your better of just getting it mapped somewhere and then posting your experience because you have decided that what's on offer isn't what you want .


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> With Ryan he only maps Syvecs to limits me to buying a Syvecs ECU. I don't know anything about Pat so might look it up.
> 
> The point I am making as discussed in the engine building thread that there have been many people some of whom we know here who have been fleeced of their hard earned. I do know if it is a UK thing where us customers are seen as cash cows by people who simply care about making money but do not take pride in their workmanship and to provide a good service. I have seen too many people being disappointed with their engine build mapping work or general tuning.



I no what your saying but the syvecs is a fantastic Ecu my car runs like a standard car, I'm not far from thurrock we can meet and il take you for a drive in mine? My mapper romain maps links etc


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## jonnypolish (Sep 25, 2012)

Just invest some time yourself and LEARN if you do not want anyone else touching your car. 
Invite someone over from Japan - potential to ruin your engine for any unknown reason, goes back to Japan with your cash in his pocket laughing on the other side of the world (Y) 
Not saying this will happen to you of course, but always a possibility. At least in this country you know what you're getting with likes of RK, MGT, Abbey etc.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

jonnypolish said:


> Just invest some time yourself and LEARN if you do not want anyone else touching your car.
> Invite someone over from Japan - potential to ruin your engine for any unknown reason, goes back to Japan with your cash in his pocket laughing on the other side of the world (Y)
> Not saying this will happen to you of course, but always a possibility. At least in this country you know what you're getting with likes of RK, MGT, Abbey etc.


Learning myself is an option. In would rather trust someone from Japan who has a good reputation.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> I no what your saying but the syvecs is a fantastic Ecu my car runs like a standard car, I'm not far from thurrock we can meet and il take you for a drive in mine? My mapper romain maps links etc


Would be good to meet and see how your car drives.


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## GTR Cook (Apr 22, 2008)

I dont know how many horror stories you have heard but there are plenty of rebuilt engines and remapped cars running around and not blowing up.

Hope you get a satisfactory result, which ever route you choose.


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

its a shame guys like Andrew Forrest don't branch out to other marques. As a mapper, he's one of the best there is


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## Silver R (Apr 23, 2013)

JTJUDGE said:


> its a shame guys like Andrew Forrest don't branch out to other marques. As a mapper, he's one of the best there is




Without doubt, mapped my old classic Subaru track car. Very very very busy man


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

Silver R said:


> Without doubt, mapped my old classic Subaru track car. Very very very busy man


I he's become a jet set mapper like Ryan. Pin him down months in advance


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

GTR Cook said:


> I dont know how many horror stories you have heard but there are plenty of rebuilt engines and remapped cars running around and not blowing up.
> 
> Hope you get a satisfactory result, which ever route you choose.


Thanks I hope so..

I think I will teach myself to map I know data analysis on race cars pretty well, worked on Aim, PI, Magneti Martelli systems. Would be tricky with out access to a dyno but I will have a play once I have some free time on my hands.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Would be good to meet and see how your car drives.



No problem mate my car is beeing finished Monday so anytime after then really. Romain will also map link and vipecs I believe 

Dan


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

There used to be a bloke called the dentist who had a really strong following but he seems to be more of a myth


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## Saifskyline (May 19, 2013)

If you take you car to another country to get mapped, make sure you take into consideration the air temps etc of that country as they are different. Just like the guys at CRD Australia did when they took their R32 GTR to run at Tsukuba. They remapped it to suit the weather conditions over there.

Honestly, just go for Ryan G, TDI, Romain.


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

I wouldn't go to Tdi


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## Mel HKS (Mar 12, 2007)

Dan ep3 turbo said:


> I wouldn't go to Tdi


Dan how did you get to choose Romain and where is he based (company?)?

Ffracer:
I found out today that it is possible to obtain a cracked version of the power writer software so no need for a dongle and licence. I guess that is how the other people mapping Fcons are doing it.

HKS told me this! Funny World


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Not going to Australia lol


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Mel HKS said:


> Dan how did you get to choose Romain and where is he based (company?)?
> 
> Ffracer:
> I found out today that it is possible to obtain a cracked version of the power writer software so no need for a dongle and licence. I guess that is how the other people mapping Fcons are doing it.
> ...


That is interesting Mel. Will look into that


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

Mel HKS said:


> Dan how did you get to choose Romain and where is he based (company?)?
> 
> Ffracer:
> I found out today that it is possible to obtain a cracked version of the power writer software so no need for a dongle and licence. I guess that is how the other people mapping Fcons are doing it.
> ...


He works for syvecs mate I can give you his number but I don't think he maps fcon il ask him Monday for you


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## Dan ep3 turbo (Sep 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> That is interesting Mel. Will look into that



Don't bother with fcon mate but something better not a signal bender


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## muzzer2002 (Oct 10, 2007)

JTJUDGE said:


> There used to be a bloke called the dentist who had a really strong following but he seems to be more of a myth


lol hes not a myth he maps my car


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

muzzer2002 said:


> lol hes not a myth he maps my car


So he does exist then. Now at least I have somebody that can get some sort of access to him in the future


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## muzzer2002 (Oct 10, 2007)

Yeah he exists is a good friend of mines


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

Should have posted a vote who people have used and a star rating like on ebay or Amazon. Could be anonymous if people fear persecution from fans or tuners themselves?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Would not work Roger the moderators would not allow it


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## chas (Sep 19, 2003)

muzzer2002 said:


> lol hes not a myth he maps my car


He maps my car as well, and my last one. He's very good


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