# From stage 1 to stage 2



## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Hi guys have any of of you guys gone from a stage one Lichfield upgrade to a stage two Lichfield upgrade,besides the sound of having the new Milteck exhaust what other major differences did you notice, would you honestly say it was worth spending the extra £1700 difference because I seen a stage one go and a stage two go and I couldn't see a great deal of difference between them except the sound, may be the stage two guy wasn't giving it loads and I could be completly wrong 

So help Please because my cars booked in next week to have either or:thumbsup:


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

There is a jump mate...runs more boost and circa 45/50bhp increase and more torque. Stage one always felt like the single biggest jump in terms of power for me.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

I dont know about the stages and what they offer, but I have asked before and never gotten an answer... Is there any proof that the milltek rear exhaust section does anything (other than change the sound of the car)? 

With panels, ypipe and ecutek my car (my10) made 596bhp at Surrey Rolling Road - total cost £1350.


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

The Racing Line in Halifax charge £600 for an EcuTek remap, including running your car on the Dyno Dynamics rolling road. A Y pipe can be bought off Ebay for £250, which you can fit yourself or get TRL to do it , maximum 1 hr labour. This should get you close to 600bhp for under a £1000.


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## *MrB* (Dec 2, 2009)

grahamc said:


> I dont know about the stages and what they offer, but I have asked before and never gotten an answer... Is there any proof that the milltek rear exhaust section does anything (other than change the sound of the car)?
> 
> With panels, ypipe and ecutek my car (my10) made 596bhp at Surrey Rolling Road - total cost £1350.


What boost?


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## Taff1275 (Jan 25, 2012)

Takamo said:


> Hi guys have any of of you guys gone from a stage one Lichfield upgrade to a stage two Lichfield upgrade,besides the sound of having the new Milteck exhaust what other major differences did you notice, would you honestly say it was worth spending the extra £1700 difference because I seen a stage one go and a stage two go and I couldn't see a great deal of difference between them except the sound, may be the stage two guy wasn't giving it loads and I could be completly wrong
> 
> So help Please because my cars booked in next week to have either or:thumbsup:


Bite the bullet and go for a stage 4, you wont regret it !! :thumbsup:


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

grahamc said:


> I dont know about the stages and what they offer, but I have asked before and never gotten an answer... Is there any proof that the milltek rear exhaust section does anything (other than change the sound of the car)?
> 
> With panels, ypipe and ecutek my car (my10) made 596bhp at Surrey Rolling Road - total cost £1350.


That's at stage 2 boost level though....the miltek flows more air so should allow increased power over using OEM rear section. Stage 2 boost runs the OEM turbos as far as any tuner will push them so for extra power need the intakes, rear section downpipes etc etc...

For OP decide what you might want to do with the car at a later date and how much you want to spend and give Iain a call...he won't sell you anything you don't need can tailor what you buy to match your goals.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

I'm even more confused now, my car feels pretty quick already and I'm just wondering wether the difference between stage1 and stage2 would be really noticeable other then the sound, my cars standard just "Y" pipe fitted and it sounds fairly decent already when you give it some, the stage1 gives 570bhp and the stage2 gives 590nhp and the price difference is roughly £1700 seems alot just for 20bhp difference


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

*MrB* said:


> What boost?


I classify my mods as stage 1.5 

1.25bar race map
1.00bar eco map



Stevie76 said:


> That's at stage 2 boost level though....the miltek flows more air so should allow increased power over using OEM rear section. Stage 2 boost runs the OEM turbos as far as any tuner will push them so for extra power need the intakes, rear section downpipes etc etc...
> 
> For OP decide what you might want to do with the car at a later date and how much you want to spend and give Iain a call...he won't sell you anything you don't need can tailor what you buy to match your goals.


I realise intakes, downpipes, etc will give me more. Downpipes and fuel injectors are on my stage 2 list, intakes are not... I dont want all the sucking sound. 

I dont think that the Milltek rear section will flow that much more than the standard rear section. The bottle-necks are the downpipes and ypipe. For the price of the rear exhaust section, I dont believe its worth the money. I would love to see some tests of standard rear section VS milltek rear section only. I doubt there is much difference.... 

IMHO I would spend the money elsewhere, like brakes... The price of the rear section is the same cost as a full upgrade to AP discs and some decent pads.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

37%....from Iains site. Depends what op wants from the car...if power is king right now then rear section makes sense. If planning on tracking then discs & pads might be a more sensible mod...not for general road driving though as unless you are doing jail speeds unlikely to destroy the OEM parts. 

As with any car tuning unfortunately the price per bhp goes up exponentially with each extra one seeming to cost 3x the price of the last one.

Stage 2 is where most folks end up going.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Stevie76 said:


> 37%....from Iains site. Depends what op wants from the car...if power is king right now then rear section makes sense. If planning on tracking then discs & pads might be a more sensible mod...not for general road driving though as unless you are doing jail speeds unlikely to destroy the OEM parts.
> 
> As with any car tuning unfortunately the price per bhp goes up exponentially with each extra one seeming to cost 3x the price of the last one.
> 
> Stage 2 is where most folks end up going.


37% is for ypipe and rear section... 

I agree, it does depend on the end goals... Its just Litchfields states 590bhp for the panel filters, ypipe, rear section and ecutek remap. I just made 596bhp with panels, ypipe and ecutek remap......... tells me that the rear section does nothing. Be your own judge.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

grahamc said:


> I realise intakes, downpipes, etc will give me more. Downpipes and fuel injectors are on my stage 2 list, intakes are not... I dont want all the sucking sound.



Did you speak to Ryan about doing the downpipes without intakes, you might max out the MAFs.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Anders_R35 said:


> grahamc said:
> 
> 
> > I realise intakes, downpipes, etc will give me more. Downpipes and fuel injectors are on my stage 2 list, intakes are not... I dont want all the sucking sound.
> ...


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

grahamc said:


> 37% is for ypipe and rear section...
> 
> I agree, it does depend on the end goals... Its just Litchfields states 590bhp for the panel filters, ypipe, rear section and ecutek remap. I just made 596bhp with panels, ypipe and ecutek remap......... tells me that the rear section does nothing. Be your own judge.


I know not to trust dyno results :chuckle: Easy to find a dyno that will show you whatever numbers you like...:runaway:

I also know enough to know that numbers don't tell the whole story...it's about how the car drives and how it makes the power.

And as said above...suggest the OP calls the pro and asks his advice.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Stevie76 said:


> I know not to trust dyno results :chuckle: Easy to find a dyno that will show you whatever numbers you like...:runaway:
> 
> I also know enough to know that numbers don't tell the whole story...it's about how the car drives and how it makes the power.
> 
> And as said above...suggest the OP calls the pro and asks his advice.


Hence why I only use Surrey Rolling Road  I have base line figures from when my car was just run-in. 499.5bhp. Happy to put my car next to a stage 2 car  

Completely agree, it entirely depends on the route the OP wants to go, just giving my experience. Oh yes, and my car drives superbly now, smoother, more go and just feels like this is how Nissan should have released the car!


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Well sounds like you have it all sorted out...looks as though everyone that has bought a rear section has wasted a lot of money. Might see a few in the for sale section after this thread.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Stevie76 said:


> Well sounds like you have it all sorted out...looks as though everyone that has bought a rear section has wasted a lot of money. Might see a few in the for sale section after this thread.


I hope so!! I do want one, but for the sound  but waiting till after the downpipes...


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

I think it's gunna be the stage 1 by the sound of things


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

I'd agree with Graham on this one, I've got an oem rear section on mine and made 620bhp and about the same torque (I've got downpipes and intakes too).

I recon you can acheive about the same power on stock turbos with downpipes/y-pipe and stock rear section or oem downpipes with aftermarket y-pipe and rear section.

Anders











Edited to add, here's David Yu's dyno which is very similar power and torque to my result. David runs Cobb, oem downpipes, intakes, Akrapovic Evo exhaust.


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## *MrB* (Dec 2, 2009)

grahamc said:


> I classify my mods as stage 1.5
> 
> 1.25bar race map
> 1.00bar eco map


Same as me and about what I expected (panels, y pipe and race rom)


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## S14 (Jan 4, 2012)

The biggest jump will be stage 1 definitely..go with that and when you get used to it..go straight for a stage 4

I think a stage 1 really brings the car alive


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

Mine made exactly 600 bhp with a RC Developments exhaust system ,which includes a Y pipe, on an Ecutek remap but my max boost is only 1.15 bar on the race rom. I've just bought a set of Forge intake pipes from Litchfields and a set of Bosch 850cc injectors, going back up to TRL for another map to see what it will produce with these mods.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

I'm really glad I asked the question now because I'm not the only one that felt that stage 2 was not worth it, and to be honest I thought about it that OEM exhaust system no one really buys them used and that will just sit around for years to come so I felt that would also be a waste. I think I'll go for the stage 1 and the gearbox software upgrade and see how it goes from There


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Stage 1 is brilliant. After that think about what you want from the car etc and then decide. Stage 1-4 would probably be the best bet! I like the sound of that


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## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

We like to under quote our BHP claims as this insures happy customers  There is a step change between Stage 1 and Stage 2. Making headline numbers is the easy bit as we have had over 600bhp on a completely standard car but tempertures and the effort the engine has to go through is reduced with the addition of an exhaust and intakes etc. In over 400 upgrades we have had no failures which is down to our careful testing and mapping  Our original GTRs were fully intrumented so we know exactly what the internal tempertures were on circuit and at very high speed. Many of the map differences are sutble so for example our Stage 2 boost map profiles are different whether we use the Milltek 76mm or 90mm as this change will effect how the turbos respond even at Stage 2 power levels.

Which ever route you take I'm sure you'll be pleased with the performance 

Regards

Iain


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

I have no doubt about your level of skill or honesty because I've spoken to you and made my judgement that your a sound and honest chappy, but it's just I don't plan on any further upgrades because I think 600 or close to 600 is going to be plenty for what I need it for so I'm just wondering if having the extra 20bhp and sound change is really worth it to me, don't get me wrong I'm sure it's worth it for someone who is planning may upgrades later. I'll call you and have a chat to ya cheers for taking your time to explain


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

All sorted and decided just can't wait now to get it done


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

decided what?


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

I've decided..........wait for it.....stage4...........na stage 2 really


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

That's a good choice


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

so after all the above you ARE going for the exhaust?

what changed your mind?


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Well to be honest my lad said go for the stage 2 and he put his hand in his pocket and funded the difference because he said he's got further plans for it, so who am I to say any different I just follow orders lol


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Takamo said:


> Well to be honest my lad said go for the stage 2 and he put his hand in his pocket and funded the difference because he said he's got further plans for it, so who am I to say any different I just follow orders lol


Good choice:thumbsup:


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## john beesla (Jun 6, 2011)

Takamo said:


> Well to be honest my lad said go for the stage 2 and he put his hand in his pocket and funded the difference because he said he's got further plans for it, so who am I to say any different I just follow orders lol


Hello mate i had the same dilemma for ages and really could not decide,
its mainly i think preference and budget, I had originally opted for stage 1 litchfield, my car already has a miltek y-pipe(non res) so it was just a case of a remap and also i wanted the gearbox software upgrade.
Then after alot of research i decided on a stage 2 why???
I have always done upgrades of exhaust and performance air filters on my cars so why not now! they do make a big difference, so i then started to look for an exhaust of MY choice and there are loads out there, my view is the GT-R is a supercar and should sound like one!! have you ever heard a quiet lambo or ferrari!! y-pipe alone in my view is not enough so when searching for an exhaust i found alot of them are not loud enough for me, which is understandable because alot of chaps hit the race tracks and need the performance, but decibels are also measured so they cant have their cars too loud, I will not be tracking my car and so i want the best sound out of my car i can get, so after lots of research i have ordered the stillen exhaust it is straight through no boxes on the back and loud as f**k also very good for performance too and comes with really smart 5" tips with stillen engraved on them, also i have ordered the front stillen lip, just wanted to be different, i have always given my cars my own touch, will be changing more on the car cosmetically afterwards carbon and new set of rims adv or dpe.
Car is booked in so cant wait!!!


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

john beesla said:


> Hello mate i had the same dilemma for ages and really could not decide,
> its mainly i think preference and budget, I had originally opted for stage 1 litchfield, my car already has a miltek y-pipe(non res) so it was just a case of a remap and also i wanted the gearbox software upgrade.
> Then after alot of research i decided on a stage 2 why???
> I have always done upgrades of exhaust and performance air filters on my cars so why not now! they do make a big difference, so i then started to look for an exhaust of MY choice and there are loads out there, my view is the GT-R is a supercar and should sound like one!! have you ever heard a quiet lambo or ferrari!! y-pipe alone in my view is not enough so when searching for an exhaust i found alot of them are not loud enough for me, which is understandable because alot of chaps hit the race tracks and need the performance, but decibels are also measured so they cant have their cars too loud, I will not be tracking my car and so i want the best sound out of my car i can get, so after lots of research i have ordered the stillen exhaust it is straight through no boxes on the back and loud as f**k also very good for performance too and comes with really smart 5" tips with stillen engraved on them, also i have ordered the front stillen lip, just wanted to be different, i have always given my cars my own touch, will be changing more on the car cosmetically afterwards carbon and new set of rims adv or dpe.
> Car is booked in so cant wait!!!


Hi have you actually seen and tested the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 or did you just do what I'm planning to do which is just go straight for stage 2


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## john beesla (Jun 6, 2011)

Takamo said:


> Hi have you actually seen and tested the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 or did you just do what I'm planning to do which is just go straight for stage 2


Hi im going straight to stage 2 mate it actually is litchfields most popular upgrade:thumbsup:


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## ke11th (Apr 12, 2012)

Have u decided to go for ECUTEK or COBB? I have the same dilemma.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

another can of worms... go for the syvecs instead!


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Horses for courses


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