# Transfer case failure



## Znags (Jan 16, 2009)

Hi, has anyone met any transfer case problems. We broke our input transfer case shaft and oil pump. Are there any solutions to this problem.


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## beaumackenzie (Jan 21, 2008)

aftermarket, most people snap the input shaft, 
so either A: you got a shit load of power or
B: the box was already too far gone to be using.

your best bet for replacing the transfer case internals is either a new box or the internals from a nissan patrol.


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## Znags (Jan 16, 2009)

*re transfer case*



beaumackenzie said:


> aftermarket, most people snap the input shaft,
> so either A: you got a shit load of power or
> B: the box was already too far gone to be using.
> 
> your best bet for replacing the transfer case internals is either a new box or the internals from a nissan patrol.


The engine is a highly modified rb26 with 3080cc and I think there isnt wear and tear with the input shaft. Phoned rod of rb motorsports and he said that he had never had a failure with the standard transfer case.The gearbox is OS giken bought of him.
So can I make the internals of a patrol?


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

> most people snap the input shaft,


??
Really, Ive never even heard of one breaking before....


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## EtienneGignac (Mar 20, 2008)

GT-R Glenn said:


> ??
> Really, Ive never even heard of one breaking before....


True, I thought it was usually 3rd gear that let go first...


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Ive seen, heard of lots of gerabox failures, but never seen a transfer box let go.


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## steveyturbo (Dec 24, 2006)

Only transfer failures i have seen are people filling them with wrong oil...


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

Are the Patrol internals better? 

Or just a source of good spare parts?


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## beaumackenzie (Jan 21, 2008)

the gtr gear box(and gts4) are based on the nissan patrol. 

the only difference in ratio's between the gtr's and gts4's is the final drive (front and rear differentials)

if you can get your hands on a gts4 gearbox you can use the transfer internals from them too. 

yes not many people know that the nissan patrol came out powered by the rb30e 
there is a clip on youtube of a Rb30e with a dett head conversion outrunning a lamborgini contache on the express way on the way into dubai in the UAE. 

robby snapped the imput shaft on the Drag R whilst testing it. 
the street legal one that ran a 10 second pass on its debut.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

8.03 std transfer case .....
Mind you there are people who break R32 boxes with FA hp ...
Then theres Gary's 500AWKW's ,never broken his standard R33 box ....
Rob did 10.2 I think ...

Dunno ...


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

I have seen and got a transfer box that has failed. All that happened is the chain snapped.

If you need some spares you can take that one off me as i have 3 transfers boxs in good shape now plus one almost brand new 

I think someone also snapped the flange off the back off the transfer once?


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## SafT (May 20, 2004)

beaumackenzie said:


> the gtr gear box(and gts4) are based on the nissan patrol.
> 
> the only difference in ratio's between the gtr's and gts4's is the final drive (front and rear differentials)
> 
> ...


the turbo patrol vids on youtube are normally the TB48DE, which apart from looking like an oversize RB25, doesnt have much in common.

R32 GTR/GTS-4 have different ratios in gearbox and diff from memory - i have a brochure for them somewhere.

Patrols do not have a variable torque split, the transfer case is different.


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## max1 (Feb 24, 2002)

there is a few mods you can do on the standard transfer box to cope with more power give ron a call at rk tuning.i have only ever used standard transfer boxes without problem 900+hp drag racing.


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## Bucky (Mar 21, 2003)

I thought the front drivershafts or front diff went before the transfer box went.


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## Znags (Jan 16, 2009)

*re transfer case*

I think the problem with our transfer case failure is the car is a R34 v spec and street legal so very heavy.I have installed another second hand case and see what happens.


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## Hugo (Oct 1, 2007)

beaumackenzie said:


> the gtr gear box(and gts4) are based on the nissan patrol.
> 
> the only difference in ratio's between the gtr's and gts4's is the final drive (front and rear differentials)
> 
> ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOWo8X84fSM

It's a Murcielago!!


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## Znags (Jan 16, 2009)

*pics of snapped shaft + oil pump*








[/IMG]


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## rockabilly (Oct 15, 2003)

wow, i put over 650lbs torque threw mine and had no issues, thats a rb30 too.. strange


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

would the fronts still spin with all 4 wheels in the air if the box has gone?..with a little throttle I mean? Mine spin and gauge shows almost 50kg to fronts but you can just stop them with your foot??


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

beaumackenzie said:


> robby snapped the imput shaft on the Drag R whilst testing it.
> the street legal one that ran a 10 second pass on its debut.


We always use stock transfere cases and I have never heard of one break.

We didn't damage the transfere case in the Drag-r, we clean snapped the input shaft to the gearbox and it ran 9.7 on its first pass.

Rob


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

cleethorpes said:


> would the fronts still spin with all 4 wheels in the air if the box has gone?..with a little throttle I mean? Mine spin and gauge shows almost 50kg to fronts but you can just stop them with your foot??




that dont sound correct, unless a rear has to get grip to power the fronts properly. 

but surely the rears need to be spinning faster than the fronts also to engage the box properly? 


P.s.. im guessing here!


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Might be a stupid question but are the Patrol blocks that are useable with rb 26 heads 3 liter petrol engines? Or do they run on diesel?


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> We always use stock transfere cases and I have never heard of one break.
> 
> We didn't damage the transfere case in the Drag-r, we clean snapped the input shaft to the gearbox and it ran 9.7 on its first pass.
> 
> Rob


Rob hope you and the car can do it again at totb


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## 4DRFTS (Oct 30, 2007)

freakazoid3 said:


> Might be a stupid question but are the Patrol blocks that are useable with rb 26 heads 3 liter petrol engines? Or do they run on diesel?


yip theyre petrol


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Could that be caused through wheel hop on standard tyres? The loading/unloading effect of axle tramp / wheel hop can easily snap the front off the diff.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

I have never seen a transfer case fail like that in 10 years. The internals of the R34 box are a little smaller than the R32/R33 boxes. 

The chain and drive gear are about 20% larger on the R32/R33 box. 

tyndago - GT-R ATTESA information

It looks like a bit of heat on the input shaft. Lack of oiling or a prior pump failure ?


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

come to think of it...my fwd is not working......

when I first got my car...on the drive back ooop narth.. I noticed that there was a kind off judder under hard acceleration...seemed to come from the passenger mid/rear...now could this have been my transfer box giving up.....or another component...at the time I thought it was the rear wheel jumping as the suspension was really stiff..??


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## qikz (Jan 12, 2009)

tyndago said:


> I have never seen a transfer case fail like that in 10 years. The internals of the R34 box are a little smaller than the R32/R33 boxes.
> 
> The chain and drive gear are about 20% larger on the R32/R33 box.
> 
> ...


Actually thats arse about. The 34 is the bigger one


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

qikz said:


> Actually thats arse about. The 34 is the bigger one


Are you sure of that ? Have you taken any apart ? I have taken several apart, and I am pretty sure I got it right. The R32/R33 has a larger chain and gears than the R34.

I would like to see some pictures and proof if you think I am wrong.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

The 32/33 is the big one.


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## Hugo (Oct 1, 2007)

Don't question Sean


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Pretty sure the 34 chain is the bigger one - and the 34 transfer box casing is slightly longer too. I know this because I use a 33 transfer case behind a quaife sequential and we needed to fit a spacer on the front of the 34 prop to compensate.


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## qikz (Jan 12, 2009)

I have 3 x R34 boxes at the moment undergoing some interesting modifications. One is original and a completely intact Getrag Nissan 6 speed as taken from the vehicle. It has the bigger chain. The other 2 are in pieces and they too have the bigger chains.


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## qikz (Jan 12, 2009)

blue34 said:


> Pretty sure the 34 chain is the bigger one - and the 34 transfer box casing is slightly longer too. I know this because I use a 33 transfer case behind a quaife sequential and we needed to fit a spacer on the front of the 34 prop to compensate.


About 12-15mm?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

blue34 said:


> Pretty sure the 34 chain is the bigger one - and the 34 transfer box casing is slightly longer too. I know this because I use a 33 transfer case behind a quaife sequential and we needed to fit a spacer on the front of the 34 prop to compensate.


That is the length of the transmission itself, not the transfer case.

Interesting that two different people are saying two different things. 

There could be an early and late change that was never really disclosed. The transfers I have, I am pretty sure they are all early. Most of them came from the Super Taikyu car.

We have plenty of R32/R33/ and Getrags in the shop. I did a Getrag swap into an R32 about 5 years ago. 

R32/R33 trans and transfers on a pallet










Getrags and transfers


















http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVpddjCH6cU


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## qikz (Jan 12, 2009)

tyndago, you have a pm.
Do you have a close pic of the r-send of a getrag? I want to see how far the shaft protrudes into the seal (if it does). My boxes are in a shop 1000klm away at the moment and I want to speed up the process of my mods. Actually you have a nice clean getrag in the bottom pic. Take a shot inside and let us see what you have.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

qikz said:


> tyndago, you have a pm.
> Do you have a close pic of the r-send of a getrag? I want to see how far the shaft protrudes into the seal (if it does). My boxes are in a shop 1000klm away at the moment and I want to speed up the process of my mods. Actually you have a nice clean getrag in the bottom pic. Take a shot inside and let us see what you have.


The transmissions are at the shop, I am headed to Las Vegas for the SEMA show on Monday. I will be back next week. 

I thought I had some better pictures, but I can't find them on my computer.


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## qikz (Jan 12, 2009)

*You are correct. the r32/33 has the larger chain*. It was my workshop that sold (now lent) me a 34 transfer box for modifications, which were probably coming along too smoothly. (I humped that freakin thing back 1000k's and took time out of the office to work on the bastard. I thought the input shaft looked quite smallish) I do own a long rifle with a scope. I cannot reach the workshop in sniper mode. That makes me so sad!........Another gearbox builder has been identified as on the limits of his career and probably should stick to taxi cab auto transmissions for a living. Sorry folks.


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

Hi guys! nice to meet you all. I'm from Russia - we have a couple drag R32 GT-R here with similar problems - transfer case shaft and pump failure. Our GT-R's run 8,6 and 8,9 sec on the quarter but we have to change transfer cases almost every drag day  Here is our last failure photo - http://24gt.ru/i/a/1/800l.jpg Do anyone have ideas about these problem? I can say that we have manual torque controller system on each car and we pump about 15-17 kg on it to eliminate wheel spining on track. Also we use 11 disk setup in our transfer cases if it is important. Can our tyre size affect this issue? Anyway - we will be glad to hear all ideas about it  thx.

By the way, here is a video about our team - YouTube - DRAG - RIMSCO RACING - ??????????? by zaRRubin

And our last year 8,6 sec run - YouTube - final klass 4


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

do you run drag tyres? they are much more forgiving than road tyres on launch? Road tyres hop and that kills diffs shafts and gearboxes...


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## max1 (Feb 24, 2002)

freemel said:


> Hi guys! nice to meet you all. I'm from Russia - we have a couple drag R32 GT-R here with similar problems - transfer case shaft and pump failure. Our GT-R's run 8,6 and 8,9 sec on the quarter but we have to change transfer cases almost every drag day  Here is our last failure photo - http://24gt.ru/i/a/1/800l.jpg Do anyone have ideas about these problem? I can say that we have manual torque controller system on each car and we pump about 15-17 kg on it to eliminate wheel spining on track. Also we use 11 disk setup in our transfer cases if it is important. Can our tyre size affect this issue? Anyway - we will be glad to hear all ideas about it  thx.
> 
> By the way, here is a video about our team - YouTube - DRAG - RIMSCO RACING - ??????????? by zaRRubin
> 
> And our last year 8,6 sec run - YouTube - final klass 4


nice cars guys ,what gearbox set up are u using on these,i think if u are manually pumping the transfer box tyre size is very important and also slicks are much more forgiving on heavy launches.how do u bleed off the transferbox pressure also.


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

Thanks  We try our best to setup these GT-R's. As soon as I will have new photoes and videos - I will show you.

Regarding our problem - we use MT ET Drag slicks 26.0/10.0-15. About gearbox - we use only Liberty's Airshifted one. Can anyone tell me what pressure he pumps with torque controller? We have an idea that this is the problem but we are not sure. What boost do you have at the moment of launch? Another idea is - "too heavy prostart setup" - but we are still not sure.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Do you have pictures of the actual failed parts?

Like any parts, once you make a ton of power, there are some special parts that you don't hear about much.

I would want to see the failure, then I could make some recommendations.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Is it just me or @ 1:40 on the first video it looks like the rear wheels/tyres are bigger than the fronts or is that a 2wd car?


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Is it just me or @ 1:40 on the first video it looks like the rear wheels/tyres are bigger than the fronts or is that a 2wd car?


Second car on that video is actual our 3rd car ( we have 2 AWD cars and 2 RWD cars). Car on the video is S13 Silvia with 2,9 liter RB26DETT, GT4718, Liberty's airshifted gearbox, RWD... The best run is 8,8 sec.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Have you tried some Shockproof Heavy Gear oil in the center diff? It will make the center diff lockup a bit harder.


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

tyndago said:


> Have you tried some Shockproof Heavy Gear oil in the center diff? It will make the center diff lockup a bit harder.



No we have not used this one.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

freemel said:


> No we have not used this one.



Redline Shockproof Heavy.Its not magic oil, but its really thick. Helps some transmissions survive. I have had really good luck with it the last 10 years.
. Its really thick, did I say that again?. Its pink/red in color. 

I still want to see some pictures of the broken parts.

Is it breaking off the line? Is it on a shift? 

Have you tried shotpeening any of the parts?

Do you think the cases might be walking a little bit?


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

Do you have any recomendations regarding manual torque controller presuure and prostart settings?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Do you ever break any front axles or diffs? 

The front end can only handle ----so---- much torque . 

A GT-R is primarily rear wheel drive. You are better to get it to hook in the back, and use the front as secondary support. 

Light vs heavy, and preloading the driveline do everything wonders.


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

tyndago said:


> Redline Shockproof Heavy.Its not magic oil, but its really thick. Helps some transmissions survive. I have had really good luck with it the last 10 years.
> . Its really thick, did I say that again?. Its pink/red in color.
> 
> I still want to see some pictures of the broken parts.
> ...


I will try to make pictures today and post them here. Also now I'm trying to find video of transfer crash. 

Last year we used other gearboxes and the problem occured in the 3rd gear on the line (not on shifting). This year the problem occurs on the line again but almost at the start at 1st gear... I do not know will it help or not - tyre pressure is 1.1 bar...


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

tyndago said:


> Do you ever break any front axles or diffs?
> 
> The front end can only handle ----so---- much torque .
> 
> ...



We have broken a couple of front axles and diff about 3 years ago - when we just started race. Now we have DriveShaftShop axles and driveshaft...


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

freemel said:


> I will try to make pictures today and post them here. Also now I'm trying to find video of transfer crash.
> 
> Last year we used other gearboxes and the problem occured in the 3rd gear on the line (not on shifting). This year the problem occurs on the line again but almost at the start at 1st gear... I do not know will it help or not - tyre pressure is 1.1 bar...


Just some pictures of the internals will give people something to look at. I have not seen a lot of transfer failures. I have seen a ton of gearbox and front diff failures. 

You broke 3rd gear on the line? At the start? Or you broke 3rd gear gear on the track. Or you broke the transfer at the shift to 3rd?

Do you release pressure to the front going down the track? 

Rhys McGregor posts on this forum occasionally, he might have a trick or two he might sell you. Heat Treatments NZ. 

The failures can be fixed. Just need to know and analyze the failure.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

freemel said:


> Do anyone have ideas about these problem? I can say that we have manual torque controller system on each car and we pump about 15-17 kg on it to eliminate wheel spining on track. Also we use 11 disk setup in our transfer cases if it is important. Can our tyre size affect this issue?


What happens if you say use 8 kg- 10 kg? Max by the book is 16 kg or about 228 psi.

Looking at that again, I think you are putting too much pressure into the transfer clutches. A little wheel spin is not bad.

I can see there being a problem with a locked driveline putting strain on the transfer case. You want the front wheels to slip and not be a strain. 

YouTube - Nissan Skyline GT-R ATTESA System Transfercase


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

tyndago said:


> Just some pictures of the internals will give people something to look at. I have not seen a lot of transfer failures. I have seen a ton of gearbox and front diff failures.
> 
> You broke 3rd gear on the line? At the start? Or you broke 3rd gear gear on the track. Or you broke the transfer at the shift to 3rd?
> 
> ...



We have broken transfer case while going straight on the 3rd gear, soon after shifting on 3rd. Now we destroy it on the 1st gear


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

Sorry for my bad english language  I will try to explain what happens... We launch the car from prostart from 1,7 bar to 2,1 bar (we experimented with this parameter but no luck), car launches on the 1st gear and all 4 wheels began to spin... after a moment and severeal meters of track the transfer case crashes... SO WE DESTROY IT AT THE LINE AND WHILE ALL 4 WHEELS STILL SPINNING OVER THE ROAD. Now a go to the garage to take some pictures for you guys. Thanks for your help.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Sounds like you might be trying to leave with way too much front split.

Why not try leaving with very little front split and slightly higher tyre pressures then work your way up with front split pressure and down with tyre pressures all the while keeping an eye on your 60ft times.

A certain amount of wheelspin is required to make the tyres work properly, even top fuel, door slammers etc all require a small amount of spin off the line, check some of the slow motion video's on youtube its very interesting.

Best of luck and I also look forward to seeing your pictures.

Rob


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

Here are some funny pictures from several our runs....


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Sure looks like you are just asking too much from those parts ie, trying to put too much front split through them.

Obviously you "could" get stronger parts made or treat the stock parts but I think a more gentle aproach to the launch and accepting that some wheelspin is actually ideal, might be your best starting point.

What 60ft times do you usually get?

Robbie.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Those shafts have been cracked for some time before they gave way. Brittle fracture due to shock loading.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

freemel said:


> Sorry for my bad english language  I will try to explain what happens... We launch the car from prostart from 1,7 bar to 2,1 bar (we experimented with this parameter but no luck), car launches on the 1st gear and all 4 wheels began to spin... after a moment and severeal meters of track the transfer case crashes... .


Your English is great. Don't apologize. You should hear my Russian. ha ha... 

The factory shaft isn't liking this. You could build a billet shaft, but I don't know if its necessary. 

I have snapped a mainshaft on an R33 before like this. Similar to the lower picture. Clean snap. Only ever done it once, so I treat it as an oddity. 

1) Try less front torque
2) Try shot peening the stock shaft
3) Get a billet shaft made.

#1 is easy. The other ones take a little while.


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## ShaggyR32GTR (Feb 29, 2008)

Bloody hell lol you done a proper job of that 

I'm with Rob on this one, way too much torque to the front. As said a small amount of wheelspin is needed for the tyres to work properly. I spent ages chatting to few of the top fueler guys and they look for 1 and half rotations before the car gets full grip. Have a look at some of the slow motion clips on you tube very clever stuff.
I'd also be interested to see yr 60ft times :thumbsup:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

ShaggyR32GTR said:


> I'm with Rob on this one, way too much torque to the front. As said a small amount of wheelspin is needed for the tyres to work properly.


Cheers, as with alot of things, what one expects to be "the way to go" isn't always the case, wheelspin off the line being a classic example, its just getting just the right amount without tyre shake thats the key.

Pumping up the transfere case to 200psi+, having agressive clutch settings and leaving hard on slicks is a big ask for those small parts.

Rob


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

Sorry for keeping silence - too much work. Thanks for your advices guys. We have a couple ideas regarding transfer case:

1) we want to manufacture billet shaft oversized diameter and try to remove a pump from transfer case.
2) we decided to remove a couple of disks(clutches) from our transfer case as we have 11 of them there. Also we've got a transfer case from japanese GT-R where disks where installed 1 by 1, and in stock transfer case there must be 2 by 1 (I do not how to say it but hope you will understand me) - so we decided to install stock amount of disks and in stock order...
3) Also we will try to pump only 10 kg with manual torque split controller

SO we will see what it will give us.

P.S. We have no acces to our 60ft times, only quater time (due to our racing organisators do not give us full info about race (((( )


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> We didn't damage the transfere case in the Drag-r, we clean snapped the input shaft to the gearbox and it ran 9.7 on its first pass. Rob





Tommy F said:


> Rob hope you and the car can do it again at totb



Was just looking back through this thread and found this :clap::clap:

Sorry we didn't run 9.7s at TOTB mate 

Classic.


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## freemel (Jul 7, 2010)

Guys, what do you think about removing a pump from transfer case and installing a shaft of enlarged diameter?


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## godzukid_gtr33 (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi, i have a questions for you, the Transfercase of GTR R33 are the same internal or inside a the transfercase of GTR R32...have diferent internal...? because outside i know have only diferent the speed meter sensor the gtr r33 is electric and the gtr 32 are mechanic, but i wanna to know inside, because i have a gtr r33 and my transfercase don't transfer to front wheell, i mi country i only can seacrh o but a transfer case for GTR R32, don;t have for GTR R33...please help me about that, if can used the parts inside of this transfercase gtr r32 and mi transfercase of mi gtr r33, thanks........






tyndago said:


> Just some pictures of the internals will give people something to look at. I have not seen a lot of transfer failures. I have seen a ton of gearbox and front diff failures.
> 
> You broke 3rd gear on the line? At the start? Or you broke 3rd gear gear on the track. Or you broke the transfer at the shift to 3rd?
> 
> ...


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

godzukid_gtr33 said:


> Hi, i have a questions for you, the Transfercase of GTR R33 are the same internal or inside a the transfercase of GTR R32...have diferent internal...? because outside i know have only diferent the speed meter sensor the gtr r33 is electric and the gtr 32 are mechanic, but i wanna to know inside, because i have a gtr r33 and my transfercase don't transfer to front wheell, i mi country i only can seacrh o but a transfer case for GTR R32, don;t have for GTR R33...please help me about that, if can used the parts inside of this transfercase gtr r32 and mi transfercase of mi gtr r33, thanks........


They are the same R32 -R33. The electric speedo drive goes right in, as does the mechanical drive.


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