# New or Used ????????? oil cooler ????????



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Just a question that I have thought about after seeing several threads in the parts for sale threads and some in Skyline Town, after spending a lot of hard earned on building my car and knowing a little more about keeping it in tip top shape I was wondering the above. For the life of me I cant see why anyone would use a secondhand oil cooler seen as they can be had for so little money. For the safety aspect alone I would always go for new, how could anyone garentee a second hand item? how could anyone know there is stray swarf wedged in the cooling fins? 

Cast your vote and type your reason.



Smokey :smokin:


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## kev gtr (Mar 14, 2007)

I have a used grex oil cooler waiting to go into my r32. Found it in a breakers yard. Was in perfect condition and got it for a snip. 
Whats all the fuss about used oil coolers anyway? If there in pretty good condition do the not do as good a job as a new cooler?.....


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Smokey 1 said:


> Just a question that I have thought about after seeing several threads in the parts for sale threads and some in Skyline Town, after spending a lot of hard earned on building my car and knowing a little more about keeping it in tip top shape I was wondering the above. For the life of me I cant see why anyone would use a secondhand oil cooler seen as they can be had for so little money. For the safety aspect alone I would always go for new, how could anyone garentee a second hand item? how could anyone know there is stray swarf wedged in the cooling fins?
> 
> Cast your vote and type your reason.
> 
> ...


Morning John:clap: 

Well this is obviously aimed at me and Yuya, which I understand as I wouldnt sell you any wheels......but I digress.

So here is the reason and I will explain it as easily as possible for you and I am talking "basic".

Customer has decided to do more track days, current oil cooler is too small, he wants to upgrade to bigger capacity......Ahhh lucky guy, Endless-r have one. 

Hope that helps you understand

Also, please take this test as I am very curious about you results.....(ps, I wouldnt post them up if i was you) 
Johns Test

Bye bye John

Rick


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

kev gtr said:


> I have a used grex oil cooler waiting to go into my r32. Found it in a breakers yard. Was in perfect condition and got it for a snip.
> Whats all the fuss about used oil coolers anyway? If there in pretty good condition do the not do as good a job as a new cooler?.....


It maybe in perfect condition from the outside Kev but how can you be sure that the engine has not blown and some stray piece of swarf hasn't lodge itself in there ? just waiting to be pushed through by a new oil pump pushing a lot more pressure? see no matter how many times you try to clean it out you will never know. For the price of a new oil cooler is it realy worth risking your GT-R for ? There is not a lot of fuss about it I was just curious to see what fellow members thought to the whole subject.



Smokey :smokin:


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

EndlessR said:


> Morning John:clap:
> 
> Well this is obviously aimed at me and Yuya, which I understand as I wouldnt sell you any wheels......but I digress.
> 
> ...


Hi Rick, sorry to disappoint but I ordered my wheels through Miguel at Newera Parts ( top service, very quick turn around) this question is not aimed at you regardless of what you think ( bad you for thinking so) I have noticed a few second hand oil coolers for sale and wondered if it is just me that thinks for the money you may as well buy a new one?

Glad to see that you have finally got a car, good God it must be three years since you have driven one :clap: . be careful you wouldn't want to crash it  

Here is a little link to a company in the UK who deal with oil coolers fitting etc, they are located in West London and can supply most oil coolers etc.



Welcome to the home of Mocal oil coolers and components - Think Auto


ps. I wont be taking that test and by they way me and my GT-R's are here to stay, how about you and your's ???????

bye, bye Drag and Drift







Smokey :wavey:


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## kev gtr (Mar 14, 2007)

Smokey 1 said:


> It maybe in perfect condition from the outside Kev but how can you be sure that the engine has not blown and some stray piece of swarf hasn't lodge itself in there ? QUOTE]
> 
> Boroscope or mr. muscle sink cleaner? lol
> I see what your saying though. Might attach an air line to the end and give it a blow through. This _might_ confirm ant issues??
> .


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Smokey 1 said:


> Hi Rick, sorry to disappoint but I ordered my wheels through Miguel at Newera Parts ( top service, very quick turn around) this question is not aimed at you regardless of what you think ( bad you for thinking so) I have noticed a few second hand oil coolers for sale and wondered if it is just me that thinks for the money you may as well buy a new one?
> 
> Glad to see that you have finally got a car, good God it must be three years since you have driven one :clap: . be careful you wouldn't want to crash it
> 
> ...


John and Mick

Please don`t post on or threads anymore, or contact us in anyway shape or form.

All the best

Rick


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

kev gtr said:


> Smokey 1 said:
> 
> 
> > It maybe in perfect condition from the outside Kev but how can you be sure that the engine has not blown and some stray piece of swarf hasn't lodge itself in there ? QUOTE]
> ...


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## kev gtr (Mar 14, 2007)

^^


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

EndlessR said:


> John and Mick
> 
> Please don`t post on or threads anymore, or contact us in anyway shape or form.
> 
> ...



Rick, Yuya, endless,endless-r,drag n drift, what ever you call yourself now. This is John ( Smokey 1 ) I am having my lunch break right now, we are working 24hrs on the new olympic village I have the pleasure of looking after the night shift:shy: . I must have hit a raw nerve with this poll, believe me I never directed it in your direction you can see that in the thread starter but for some reason you have become very defensive. I did ask you for a quote on some wheels as I was interested in your reply, not to buy them from you ( as I know your prices don't include shipping and import duty :chairshot ) that's why I chose to deal with a reputable firm like Newera :clap: 

You are not a Mod on this forum last time I checked, get over your self please this is a public place. I own a couple of GT-R's and am a member of the GTROC, I have dealt with many members on here and participated in many GTROC events, so who the hell are you to tell me what to do or where to post ?
I think you need to calm down, relax, hope you ain't on a period ? this poll is aimed at Nissan Skyline owners and drivers, so members and users of this forum have the knowledge of other users to make decisions regarding there pride and joy :bowdown1: 



Smokey :smokin:


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

kev gtr said:


> ^^



Sorry Kev, you have PM.



Smokey :smokin:


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Obviously some behind the scenes goings on between Smokey, Mick and Endless-r!!!! All I will add to that is that I have never had anything other than TOP service from Endless-r :thumbsup::thumbsup:

As for the used oil cooler thing....
An oil cooler is perhaps one of the most basic of engine components..its has NO moving parts (unless there's a 'stat) and, unless theres a hole in the core (which can be easily checked) theres nothing that can go wrong with it. They can also be flushed clean.
I really dont see the problem with a used cooler. I mean Smokey, with your train of thought there mate no one would EVER buy used parts for fear of fatigue/wear/scratches etc,etc,etc.....
Also a new cooler kit with the relocation kit (which IMHO is essential) is not exactly what I would call cheap!!The differences between new and used is quite significant. While I can afford to buy new on every part I purchase for the GTR I always look for used parts first.
I, personally, dont have the need for a cooler at present but when I do I will be looking first at any used kits that come up.Again, not that I cant buy new but WHY the hell should I when a used item will do exactly the same job as a new one for less cash???I have used this mentality for EVERY car I have modified so I dont see why the GTR should be any different.The only thing I can think of is that some folks may like to tell their mates down the pub how everything on their car is NEW and how they have spent £20k on brand new parts....well, more fool them I say.


Its really a no-brainer.......:chairshot:

TT


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

I wouldn`thave a problem buying a second hand oilcooler, i`ve bought refurbished radiators before and never had a problem so cant see theres much of a risk in an oilcooler.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

I would buy new for sure. For what they cost its not even worth looking for a second hand one. You never know what is inside it.

Mick


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

hodgie said:


> I wouldn`thave a problem buying a second hand oilcooler, i`ve bought refurbished radiators before and never had a problem so cant see theres much of a risk in an oilcooler.


Well a 2nd hand oil cooler and a radiator is not the same sorry.

if you fit a 2nd hand oil cooler that has come from a engine that has run its bearings then you have a good chance of bits of metal going into your engine and *it will damage your oil pump* and maybe wreck the engine.

do you still think its worth fitting a cheap 2nd hand oil cooler


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

m6beg said:


> I would buy new for sure. For what they cost its not even worth looking for a second hand one. You never know what is inside it.
> 
> Mick


Fair enough, each to their own but exactly WHAT surprises are you expecting to find in an oil cooler (I assume your only talking about the core here) that cant be flushed out??? Any bits of debris will be small enough to flush away...reading your post it sounds like your expecting Yorkie-sized chunks of metal to be in there :chuckle: 

I used a 2nd hand oil cooler on 2 of my comp-spec Pinto's back in the day and never had any kind of bother with them.

Again, I raise the point that you could use a doom-and-gloom approach to ANY used part but ironically an oil cooler core is something that can be returned to an 'as new' condition very easily. I really cant see why you have such a bee in your bonnet about this??? Simple answer is if you dont fancy using 'used' bits on your car then dont...problem solved!!!

TT


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## Spearmint (Aug 7, 2005)

I've purchased a few second hand parts before but regarding anything to do with the engines internals and especially the oil system (Think of it as its blood supply) I say buy new.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Boxing day for real on the Gtr forum:chuckle:


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

EndlessR said:


> Morning John:clap:
> 
> Well this is obviously aimed at me and Yuya, which I understand as I wouldnt sell you any wheels......but I digress.
> Rick



Hi Rick

I dont think that john could give a $hit about your wheels as PT has a very good contact in Japan that is miles cheaper than you.

You also ask top money for old used parts  

Plus any good tuner should know that you never sell on 2nd hand oil coolers.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Tommy F said:


> Plus any good tuner should know that you never sell on 2nd hand oil coolers.


Tell you what, go and buy Motoring News and give all the folks in the back who are selling used oil coolers a piece of your mind mate :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: .

I'm sure they will be more than willing to listen to your POV :smokin: 



> Boxing day for real on the Gtr forum :chuckle:


Sure seems that way..over a bleedin oil cooler FFS  ...however I deduce there's clearly something more going on here between certain parties taking part in the thread.

TT


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Tommy F said:


> Hi Rick
> 
> I dont think that john could give a $hit about your wheels as PT has a very good contact in Japan that is miles cheaper than you.
> 
> ...


Re: wheels?
O really, why contact me then???

Re: oil cooler, 
all engine parts are cleaned and checked and checked again by a tuning company who has be keeping customers happy for the last 20 years.
So we do know what were doing, and would never offer a customer a faulty product, especially one that would damage their engines as I am sure you understand.

Edited to say, I am not saying used is better, we are just giving consumers the choice to buy within their budgets, not all GT-R owners have an endless supply of cash.

Rick


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

EndlessR said:


> Re: wheels?
> O really, why contact me then???
> 
> Re: oil cooler,
> ...



lol :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: 


Mick


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Having seen the damage a cooler that isn't flushed properly does to a very expensive engine, I'd say new all day every day.
Won't be happening again, that's for sure!


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

EndlessR said:


> Re: wheels?
> O really, why contact me then???
> 
> Re: oil cooler,
> ...



Rick

So that will be why you are selling a pair of Fcuked turbos :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: 

So you know 100% that there is nothing inside that oil cooler core that could do any damage to the engine that it will get fitted to


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

tarmac terror said:


> Tell you what, go and buy Motoring News and give all the folks in the back who are selling used oil coolers a piece of your mind mate :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: .
> 
> I'm sure they will be more than willing to listen to your POV :smokin:
> 
> ...


I can bet that if you turned up at any of the top skyline tuners in the UK with a 2nd hand oil cooler,they would tell you that they will not fit it for the very reasons that i have posted above.


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## EndlessR (Nov 6, 2007)

Tommy F said:


> Rick
> 
> So that will be why you are selling a pair of Fcuked turbos :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
> 
> So you know 100% that there is nothing inside that oil cooler core that could do any damage to the engine that it will get fitted to


Tommy, I know where your also going with this 

FYI we want to tell the customers honestly about the used parts. 
I have read too many times on here, that used parts have been sold under misrepresentation. So if we are going to supply used parts, I want you guys to know what your getting. 

For any potential customers who are interested in the turbos or other used parts for that matter, I have no problem with showing you the movement/minimal play in the shaft so you can see for yourself via webcam or movie before you purchase. 

Hope that answers than one.

Now guys, whats next?:smokin: 

Rick


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

tarmac terror said:


> ..however I deduce there's clearly something more going on here between certain parties taking part in the thread.
> 
> TT



Yes for sure mate


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

a stock engine has a water to oil cooler with a smaller bore than an aftermarket cooler do you chuck this bit out also if a shell spins ? 

never heard of anyone doing that, it gets cleaned and flushed out properly, just as you can with an aftermarket cooler


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Tommy F said:


> I can bet that if you turned up at any of the top skyline tuners in the UK with a 2nd hand oil cooler,they would tell you that they will not fit it for the very reasons that i have posted above.


Hmmm...you 100% sure about that??? I put it to you that they may be looking not to protect the engine of the customer but to, perhaps, line their pockets with cash for a new cooler.

Come on folks, common sense says that theres ****-all that can get stuck in an oil cooler. In all my days of being a mechanic and building my own engines for motorsport I have NEVER heard of anyone suggest that they wouldnt use a core because it MIGHT have some crap in it. Theyre not exactly difficult to flush out you know.

It would be interesting to have a sub-poll of folks who run a cooler who have had an engine let go. How many of them have bought a new core/complete oil cooler assy????? How many of them have flushed the cooler and reused it???

This thread stinks of sour grapes and is clearly aimed at certain traders. Now, I have no affiliation to these guys only my own experiences and can say that I have bought both new AND used parts from them. The description of the used parts was spot on and the fact that they are critical suspension components bothers me none. 
Some folks will ALWAYS buy new and fair play to them. However there is a big market for used parts, just look at the back of Motoring News.....Whats wrong with making a saving on parts eh?? I built 2 RS2000's with 95% used parts and I had 100% reliability on each (the fact that I bent one myself on an event doesnt come into it  ).

There are parts being sold in the 'for sale' section that are far more prone to fatigue/failure than a cooler core and yet I hear or see nothing from the originator of this thread regaring these. Dampers spring to mind immediately....****, theres NO WAY you would catch me fitting 2nd hand dampers unless they were still boxed but thats just my POV. 

I think that you should go and have a look at parts in the 'for sale' section and then make comment about a part (cooler core) that has no wear/fatigue mechanism. 

Its not often I take exception to threads on here but this one beggars belief :GrowUp: :GrowUp: 

TT


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

The oil filter stops metalic particals entering the oil cooler so it should be clean anyway.


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

I'd like to see more facts suporting the accusations in this thread. :chuckle: 

Flush that cooler, then blank the ends before you store / ship it, job done. Still not convinced, a quick X-Ray inspection will confirm that flushing works.


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

i'd be more concerned about a block flushing all the oilways in that ................. or do you chuck that bit out also and buy a new one :chuckle:


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

this thread is tooo funny, 

WTF is the problem, if you can afford new, buy new, if you can afford used buy used. If you are that paranoid about shit in an oil cooler, get it ultrasonically cleaned for a few pounds, not magic they shove it in a pool of cleaning solution and turn it on. Better than just a flush thru.


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## moosedoog (Jul 13, 2006)

surely the oil filter should do the job of flushing out bits, and anything that goes through the filter shouldnt make a difference or could easily be flushed out.

id have no problems with a second hand cooler,at the end of the day nothing could get in there that couldnt be flushed out could it.......


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

moosedoog said:


> surely the oil filter should do the job of flushing out bits, and anything that goes through the filter shouldnt make a difference or could easily be flushed out.
> 
> id have no problems with a second hand cooler,at the end of the day nothing could get in there that couldnt be flushed out could it.......


Maybe it will  but i am sure the oil has to go through the oil pump first,plus not all the oil goes through the filter some will go through the pressure relief valve.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Tommy F said:


> Maybe it will  but i am sure the oil has to go through the oil pump first,plus not all the oil goes through the filter some will go through the pressure relief valve.


Your missing the point that any possible debris within an oil cooler core will be minute in size and easily flushed out. 

Also no oil filter I know of gives 100% total filtration so even right now there will be oil in your engine carrying microscopic grains of either metal or carbon deposits. THAT should be worrying you MORE than the possibility of PERHAPS some stuff remaining in an oil cooler core....JEEZ!!! 

   

TT


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

The more a read the more it makes sense not to buy second hand parts like this.

New for sure. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

Mick


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

You're not going to get a sensible answer to a question like this on here I'm afraid, too much politics and people pushing their own and their sponsors agendas.

The argument about whether you shouldn't buy old when new "isn't a load of money", or any arguments about monetary cost are academic really. Money is relative really - some have more of it than others, and there are a few who get new parts for considerably less than Joe Public pay because of their special relationship (read: cheap parts/labour in exchange for pimping tuner name at every opportunity). What might be "not a lot of money" for one person might be a lot for someone else.



Rain said:


> this thread is tooo funny,
> 
> WTF is the problem, if you can afford new, buy new, if you can afford used buy used. If you are that paranoid about shit in an oil cooler, get it ultrasonically cleaned for a few pounds, not magic they shove it in a pool of cleaning solution and turn it on. Better than just a flush thru.


Spot on, and probably the least tainted comment in the thread. 

The argument that can be made about 2nd hand oil coolers you could pretty much apply to any 2nd hand part. "What ifs" can usually be covered off through thorough checking, and still ends up cheaper than new for Joe Public - i.e. the everyday Skyline owners who don't have special relationships with their tuners.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

^^^^^^

Agree 100% with that. 

Something is definately going on here over and above the oil cooler debate.....
Shame really as its now casting certain forum users as complete pillocks in my eyes where before I had a certain respect for their achievements. Sad day....

TT


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

tarmac terror said:


> ^^^^^^
> 
> Agree 100% with that.
> 
> ...



Yes got to agree with you on that one very sad. Well said.

Mick


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

Tommy F said:


> Well a 2nd hand oil cooler and a radiator is not the same sorry.
> 
> if you fit a 2nd hand oil cooler that has come from a engine that has run its bearings then you have a good chance of bits of metal going into your engine and *it will damage your oil pump* and maybe wreck the engine.
> 
> do you still think its worth fitting a cheap 2nd hand oil cooler


At the end of the day its just a cooler that can easily be flushed out. So you have never bought a second hand car? just imagine what could be inside the engine! 

I wouldn`t have replied in the first place if i`d realised this thread was just to stir up some shit. So it seems.


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## moosedoog (Jul 13, 2006)

Tommy F said:


> Maybe it will  but i am sure the oil has to go through the oil pump first,plus not all the oil goes through the filter some will go through the pressure relief valve.


true but in this case, irrelivant. the discussion is about what could be in a second hand cooler, not the damage that swarf etc could do to your oil pump. im fairly sure that any oil that gets chucked out through the relief valve goes straight back to the sump not through the filter\cooler.


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

matt j said:


> Having seen the damage a cooler that isn't flushed properly does to a very expensive engine, I'd say new all day every day.
> Won't be happening again, that's for sure!




Sorry to hear about that Matt


Smokey :smokin:


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

tarmac terror said:


> This thread stinks of sour grapes and is clearly aimed at certain traders. Now, I have no affiliation to these guys only my own experiences and can say that I have bought both new AND used parts from them.
> 
> TT


I posted this poll up to see what peoples opinions where on the subject, not for the sake of as you say "sour grapes". There have been some good replies thus far. 


Smokey :smokin:


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Rain said:


> this thread is tooo funny,
> 
> WTF is the problem, if you can afford new, buy new, if you can afford used buy used. If you are that paranoid about shit in an oil cooler, get it ultrasonically cleaned for a few pounds, not magic they shove it in a pool of cleaning solution and turn it on. Better than just a flush thru.




I did not know about this, does anyone know of a place that can do this in the London area.





Smokey :smokin:


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Smokey 1 said:


> I posted this poll up to see what peoples opinions where on the subject, not for the sake of as you say "sour grapes".


If you say so mate     



TT


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## JasonO (Jun 29, 2001)

Smokey 1 said:


> Rain said:
> 
> 
> > If you are that paranoid about shit in an oil cooler, get it ultrasonically cleaned for a few pounds, not magic they shove it in a pool of cleaning solution and turn it on. Better than just a flush thru.
> ...


What's to say that ultrasonic cleaning it is any better than a simple solvent flush ??

Have it X-Ray'd to be sure, it's the only way !


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

JasonO said:


> What's to say that ultrasonic cleaning it is any better than a simple solvent flush ??
> 
> Have it X-Ray'd to be sure, it's the only way !


Or just buy a new 16 core one for £40


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

JasonO said:


> What's to say that ultrasonic cleaning it is any better than a simple solvent flush ??
> 
> Have it X-Ray'd to be sure, it's the only way !



Nothing, the point i made was that if you are that paranoid about it, then its something else to do.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

m6beg said:


> Yes got to agree with you on that one very sad. Well said.
> 
> Mick


Glad you agree with that unfortunately its aimed in your general direction.

You'd have to be living on Mars lately to miss your shameless plugging of PT at every opportunity as well as the slating of most other specialists with whom you have a dislike. The same specialists who have devoted much of their time and effort in supporting your campaigns before appearing to be unmercifully cast adrift. I have no personal quarrel with you mate, I just feel that your undermining your own achievements and, by association, that of PT in the process. I have no particular loyalty to any suppliers/tuners/whatever so therefore have no axe to grind. 

The blatant slagging of a GTROC forum trader is shameless, even more so under the guise of an alleged poll  . I think the subject in question i.e whether a used oil cooler core is useable or not is a pretty poor disguise. Its plainly obvious to anyone with ANY useful mechanical experience that a used oil cooler core, properly flushed poses absolutely NO risk to an engine whatsoever. To suggest otherwise shows a complete lack of knowledge.

I have followed your exploits in the Lemon and have, until now, respected your commitment and passion for GTR but this whole debacle has doused that respect in Sunoco and promptly tossed a match right in there. You should feel ashamed at yourself but I presume you wont.
As a forum and club member I dont usually rant and rave about things but I feel I must air my opinion.

I shall say no more.....

TT


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## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

I have had more messages about this thread from more people than i got wishing me merry christmas  FFS!!!!!!!!!

My own personal opinion here. NO ONE elses but my own..

For the money it costs to clean a used oil cooler properly you can pretty much buy a brand new one, i have cleaned oil coolers out after bearing failure and take my word for it the oil filter doesnt stop metal getting into the core. I have spent a very long time cleaning out an oil cooler, only to double check again with another clean and metal traces are still present. 
This is in no way questioning what rick has for sale, if he says he can assure it has passed no metal then that is fair enough. 
Every tuner has there own way of doing things and our way is to replace a core if bearing failure has occured, i know of far too many RB26's that have been rebuilt elsewhere only to fail a bearing again within a short space of time.
I for one will put everything in place to make sure that doesnt happen to us.

Whatever may be going on between the lines of this thread (or not) we are not getting involved and havent been involved.

Rob


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Smokey 1 said:


> Hi Rick, sorry to disappoint but question is not aimed at you regardless of what you think ( bad you for thinking so) I have noticed a few second hand oil coolers for sale and wondered if it is just me that thinks for the money you may as well buy a new one?
> 
> Glad to see that you have finally got a car, good God it must be three years since you have driven one :clap: . be careful you wouldn't want to crash it
> 
> ...


Did you not read this reply TT ? I never aimed this question at a tuner/supplier, wanted to know other folks opinion on the matter. It seems you have been reading between lines that are not there. 

I wish I had never posted this poll in the first place seen as so may forum users have blown the whole thing out of proportion, it was a simple yes or no question.

Merry Christmas 


Smokey


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

tweenierob said:


> i have cleaned oil coolers out after bearing failure and take my word for it the oil filter doesnt stop metal getting into the core. I have spent a very long time cleaning out an oil cooler, only to double check again with another clean and metal traces are still present.
> 
> Rob


Hey Rob :wavey: 
Hope you understand that I have not, nor will I bad mouth you guys at PT as you have not caused me any ill. Hope you did, indeed, have a great xmas.

On the subject of THE (sorry, A generic used cooler core) cooler, which in all honesty seems a pretty petty subject to get all worked up about I admit :chuckle: :chuckle: I agree that ANY part from an engine which has suffered a catastrophic failure should be extra-thoroughly inspected. However a cooler core which has been removed from a perfectly good engine, after a good cleaning regime, should be suitable for reuse.

With all the current moves towards enviromental awareness and recycling it would seem pretty naughty to bin something, while still being perfectly serviceable, on the basis that 1) a new one looks better or 2) someone cant be arsed to spend half an hour cleaning a used one.


Again, no beef with PT or, indeed, anyone for that matter...Just my 2p worth...

TT


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Smokey 1 said:


> It seems you have been reading between lines that are not there.


If thats the case mate, then I am humbly apologetic. The earlier posts in this thread did appear to allude to certain fallings out between parties. Even if there is/was its none of business anyway...

I'll be the first to admit to being in a lather about the whole subject of used parts in general. Its one of these things (and I'm sure you'll have something along the same lines you can relate to) that just grates with me when folks automatially think that used parts have no place on a high performance car.
The used parts trade, especially in rally circles is MASSIVE!!! As I said I have personally built 2 stage rally cars with mostly used parts without issue and know of a good many others carrying used critical components. 
I am lucky to be in a position to be able to buy new components every single time but I still look for value-for-money which, sadly, seems to be unheard of in GTR tuning circles. Therefore used parts will always attract my attention.
Thankfully I have a good mechanical knowledge which helps in assessing good used parts from stuff that should really be seeing the bin.

To paraphrase what has been said before by someone else...If you dont want used parts then dont buy them. 
I still stand by my original answer to your question and say that a used core, properly flushed, will present no problems and I can testify to that with first hand experience.Hell, I'm even tempted to buy the Endless-r cooler core myself just to prove the sceptics wrong :chuckle: :chuckle: 

Anyway, all joking aside have a good new year when it comes (and that goes for everyone)

:wavey: 

TT


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## johnnywas (Mar 12, 2006)

And everybody lived happy ever after.


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

johnnywas said:


> And everybody lived happy ever after.


Except for the poor used core! 
:chuckle:


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

tarmac terror said:


> If thats the case mate, then I am humbly apologetic. The earlier posts in this thread did appear to allude to certain fallings out between parties. Even if there is/was its none of business anyway...
> 
> I'll be the first to admit to being in a lather about the whole subject of used parts in general. Its one of these things (and I'm sure you'll have something along the same lines you can relate to) that just grates with me when folks automatially think that used parts have no place on a high performance car.
> The used parts trade, especially in rally circles is MASSIVE!!! As I said I have personally built 2 stage rally cars with mostly used parts without issue and know of a good many others carrying used critical components.
> ...



fair play mate, no hard feelings. Sometimes text comes across wrong but believe me there was no malice intended when I posted this thread. Rick instantly became very defensive and assumed it was aimed at him which it wasn't



Smokey :smokin:


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## YokoAE86 (May 23, 2007)

My opinion is that if you spent hundreds or thousands rebuilding your engine, then it makes sense to buy a new oil cooler. No point saving money here.

I'm not saying that used parts are not good but it just peace of mind.

Has anyone on this forum bought a 2nd hand oil cooler and had bad experience with them? I would like to know.


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## banzai g (Jan 5, 2007)

Id agree with you mate !! It aint worth the risk of destroying an engine over the head of a 2nd hand oilcooler you know nothing about.It woudnt be a risk id be willing to take .


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## hockey-boy (Apr 16, 2006)

so from what i am reading i need to go buy a new oil cooler when i replace my engine as the bearings has just gone on my 34. well i am sure everyone on here who has had bearings go etc has replaced there oil coolers which the oil cooler will be as good as a second one now from what i am reading. well I have no intension of replacing oil cooler due to bearings going if anything a flush maybe but thats it. if bits come out i would look at replacing but if someone bought a secondhand one and the oil cooler hasnt been cleaned out a quick flush would prove the oil cooler is good enough etc.
i have a secondhand oil cooler that is in a box and i have no issues using it.

the same could apply for all parts intercooler etc if a turbo went where do you stop.

I am also 100% sure my new nismo engine from Endless-r who i have had top quality dealings with so far and have no issues using them again. will run 100% in my 34 with the existing oil cooler that will be as good as a secondhand one.


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## hockey-boy (Apr 16, 2006)

Durzel said:


> You're not going to get a sensible answer to a question like this on here I'm afraid, too much politics and people pushing their own and their sponsors agendas.
> 
> The argument about whether you shouldn't buy old when new "isn't a load of money", or any arguments about monetary cost are academic really. Money is relative really - some have more of it than others, and there are a few who get new parts for considerably less than Joe Public pay because of their special relationship (read: cheap parts/labour in exchange for pimping tuner name at every opportunity). What might be "not a lot of money" for one person might be a lot for someone else.



:bowdown1: :bowdown1: :bowdown1: :bowdown1:


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## hockey-boy (Apr 16, 2006)

Smokey 1 said:


> I posted this poll up to see what peoples opinions where on the subject, not for the sake of as you say "sour grapes". There have been some good replies thus far.
> 
> 
> Smokey :smokin:


look at what TT is saying i read it the same as him.

this thread looks as though it was setup to course shit or it has been put up with good intensions but had bad timing. 
reason i say this is, it is only a few days back that mike was arguing with rich on another thread about 2nd hand cooler then you pop up with this.


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## banzai g (Jan 5, 2007)

Ive 100% dealings with endless r to !!! My comments are not directed at them in any way.
Im in the process of a costly engine rebuild and its taking every penny i have !! 
Ill be replacing the oil cooler on my car just for peace of mind ,no point cutting corners with something that is so important !!!
It could end up a very expensive oil cooler in the long run.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

banzai g said:


> Ive 100% dealings with endless r to !!! My comments are not directed at them in any way.
> Im in the process of a costly engine rebuild and its taking every penny i have !!
> Ill be replacing the oil cooler on my car just for peace of mind ,no point cutting corners with something that is so important !!!
> It could end up a very expensive oil cooler in the long run.


I agree with you 100%. After spending all that hard earned cash got to stretch another £250 for the new oil cooler. Expensive cooler if not.

Mick


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

hockey-boy said:


> so from what i am reading i need to go buy a new oil cooler when i replace my engine as the bearings has just gone on my 34. well i am sure everyone on here who has had bearings go etc has replaced there oil coolers which the oil cooler will be as good as a second one now from what i am reading. well I have no intension of replacing oil cooler due to bearings going if anything a flush maybe but thats it. if bits come out i would look at replacing but if someone bought a secondhand one and the oil cooler hasnt been cleaned out a quick flush would prove the oil cooler is good enough etc


You pays your money you takes your chances :chuckle: 

Will you be flushing it yourself or relying on the word of others...

Like has already been said it's just a cheap to throw a new one on, I know I wish I had!


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## hockey-boy (Apr 16, 2006)

matt j said:


> You pays your money you takes your chances :chuckle:
> 
> Will you be flushing it yourself or relying on the word of others...
> 
> Like has already been said it's just a cheap to throw a new one on, I know I wish I had!


as for your first point, yes i pay the bills like everyone else and its up to all individuals on here as to what they put on.

as for the 2nd what difference does it make whether i am doing it or relying on others if you pay for a service you expect things to come back right and when my car is done, if the company doing it suggest that we take certain measures i will go with it as they have been 100% on everything we have done to my cars so far and trust there judgement.

as for your last point (initial part) i find it funny that there is such an issue on the oil cooler when as others have said what about everything else that could have parts lodged in it, do we repalce all them when all thes etop tuners cannot give a flush and advise whether it is useable or not. 
you were very unfortunate and wouldnt like to see anyone rebuild an engine and then have to rebuild through overseeing something however if we had to go by everyones say so we would be replacing everything due to a few misfortunes.

i appreciate the big question when people are buying from a unknown source but when respectable tuners / retails are selling the parts surely there must be an element of trust there, we trust them with rebuilding our engines or supplying us with other parts etc and when they give advise so why should there all of a sudden be any dought over there professional oppinion now.

when i have my engine done i will trust my tuners professional oppinion that is why i use them not joe publics oppinion, this looks like people are questioning professional oppinions. cannot see top tuners or retailers risking there rep over a few quid.


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

If i rebuild any engine after a bearing failure, then the water/oil cooler gets swapped, you can sometimes hear them rattle with bits after being cleaned and dried!

I would fit a used cooler, provided it came off a known good engine, and was properly dealt with after being stripped of, but that's easy to do within the confines of my workshop. Buying a used one from a forum or fleabay is recipe for disaster, definitely consider it a purchase of pipes and fittings, with a view to replacing the radiator core


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## DanLeMan (Sep 4, 2006)

Smokey 1 said:


> Just a question that I have thought about after seeing several threads in the parts for sale threads and some in Skyline Town, after spending a lot of hard earned on building my car and knowing a little more about keeping it in tip top shape I was wondering the above. For the life of me I cant see why anyone would use a secondhand oil cooler seen as they can be had for so little money. For the safety aspect alone I would always go for new, how could anyone garentee a second hand item? how could anyone know there is stray swarf wedged in the cooling fins?
> 
> Cast your vote and type your reason.
> 
> ...


got to agree with you there bud..

i had my engine rebuilt by a garage and it wasnt until I took it to get mapped properley that i found my oil cooler was 80% blocked with swarf and chunks of metal.... not even worth trying to clean out so binned it and bought new..


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

DanLeMan said:


> got to agree with you there bud..
> 
> i had my engine rebuilt by a garage and it wasnt until I took it to get mapped properley that i found my oil cooler was 80% blocked with swarf and chunks of metal.... not even worth trying to clean out so binned it and bought new..


DanLeMan

What garage rebuilt your engine and left your old oil cooler full of crap.

Must have been a back street garage with no idea about rebuilding engines right.:flame:


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## r33 v-spec (May 24, 2002)

Can't believe I've missed this thread...guess it was the title which just made me thought it'd be a simple poll/thread, but when I saw the pages rise, I had to have a look! 

I can't believe this thread has got so worked up over a simple poll...BUT...whether it was supposed to be a simple poll is another Q, as it can clearly be seen, that there are some issues here between certain parties! Very childish if you ask me! Anyone who spends time on here, and browses here often will know for themselves that there's something going on here. 

Bottom line is, Endless-R is offering a 2nd hand oil cooler as stated, for a reasonable price. It's up to the buyer whether he wants to buy it, and take the risk if any of fitting/using it. Whats all the fuss about! Seems a major stir-up/indirect dig!

Having had dealings with Rick, and I think many others have on here, I can only highly recommend him. Will go out of his way to help, and also a true enthausiast.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

DanLeMan said:


> got to agree with you there bud..
> 
> i had my engine rebuilt by a garage and it wasnt until I took it to get mapped properley that i found my oil cooler was 80% blocked with swarf and chunks of metal.... not even worth trying to clean out so binned it and bought new..


Jeez DanLeMan. Just goes to show you.


Mick


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## banzai g (Jan 5, 2007)

No disrespect to endless r !!! But anyone that takes the risk with a 2nd hand cooler is mad. Anyone that knows anything about a gtr engine knows how tempremental they can be !!! And one of the main parts is the oil system in them !!! Not worth the risk in my eyes.


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## moosedoog (Jul 13, 2006)

DanLeMan said:


> got to agree with you there bud..
> 
> i had my engine rebuilt by a garage and it wasnt until I took it to get mapped properley that i found my oil cooler was 80% blocked with swarf and chunks of metal.... not even worth trying to clean out so binned it and bought new..


that is possibly the worst workmanship ever, id go as far as to say that this is irrelevant to the thread as the cooler was not second hand!:chuckle: :chuckle: as said it really is poor workmanship, nothing else.did the engine suffer before this was noticed.

id still have absolutely no problem with a second hand cooler though.


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## DanLeMan (Sep 4, 2006)

moosedoog said:


> that is possibly the worst workmanship ever, id go as far as to say that this is irrelevant to the thread as the cooler was not second hand!:chuckle: :chuckle: as said it really is poor workmanship, nothing else.did the engine suffer before this was noticed.
> 
> id still have absolutely no problem with a second hand cooler though.


point im making is i wasnt going to risk cleaning it out... and re using it so i bought new.. I suppose i could of cleaned it and offered it for sale on here. then it would become second hand. someone buys it finds i havent quite cleaned it out properley and then a thread starts up with a title wanted RB26 engine.....


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

DanLeMan said:


> point im making is i wasnt going to risk cleaning it out... and re using it so i bought new.. I suppose i could of cleaned it and offered it for sale on here. then it would become second hand. someone buys it finds i havent quite cleaned it out properley and then a thread starts up with a title wanted RB26 engine.....


one line in that reply that is key,


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## moosedoog (Jul 13, 2006)

DanLeMan said:


> point im making is i wasnt going to risk cleaning it out... and re using it so i bought new.. I suppose i could of cleaned it and offered it for sale on here. then it would become second hand. someone buys it finds i havent quite cleaned it out properley and then a thread starts up with a title wanted RB26 engine.....


yes mate i see the resale point you were making.

i just cant see whay they cant be cleaned\flushed and re-used. out of interest was the block\head, turbos and all oil lines flushed or was the cooler and oil changed and nothing else cleaned.


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## boppa (May 31, 2006)

After reading this , was wondering if I should chuck my ARC oil cooler away, as I spun a shell nearly 2 years ago , had the engine rebuilt, cleaned out the cooler, and all has been great since. Am i on borrowed time?


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Wont the oil filter stop any debre getting back into the engine????
Or otherwise getting into the cooler?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Matt J said:


> Having seen the damage a cooler that isn't flushed properly does to a very expensive engine, I'd say new all day every day.
> Won't be happening again, that's for sure!





hockey-boy said:


> as for the 2nd what difference does it make whether i am doing it or relying on others if you pay for a service you expect things to come back right and when my car is done, if the company doing it suggest that we take certain measures i will go with it as they have been 100% on everything we have done to my cars so far and trust there judgement.





DanLeMan said:


> i had my engine rebuilt by a garage and it wasnt until I took it to get mapped properley that i found my oil cooler was 80% blocked with swarf and chunks of metal.... not even worth trying to clean out so binned it and bought new..


The point I was making was even when you trusted someone to do a job properly, sh1t still happens.

There's a few issues here from what I can see;

1. A legitimate question of whether you'd buy/fit a 2nd hand cooler.
2. Whether flushing can thoroughly clean the cooler enough to reuse.
3. Whether the cooler was actually cleaned as part of certain rebuilds.

I know which option mine and Dan's engines fit into, hope you don't suffer the same fate.

Like I said, You pays your money, you takes your chances....


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

fourtoes said:


> Wont the oil filter stop any debre getting back into the engine????
> Or otherwise getting into the cooler?


The oil cooler is up stream of the oil filter so if its a single bearing that fails the particles should get stopped.
If the whole bottom end fails then the filter will block,the oil is then
feed through the bypass valve straight into the oil cooler.


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

matt j said:


> 1. A legitimate question of whether you'd buy/fit a 2nd hand cooler.
> 2. Whether flushing can thoroughly clean the cooler enough to reuse.
> 3. Whether the cooler was actually cleaned as part of certain rebuilds.
> 
> ....


as i said before, i'd be more worried about a block its much harder to clean out than a cooler which is simple in comparison 

it also looks as if (from your comments) there is a hidden agenda to this thread, why not come straight out with it ?


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Andy W said:


> as i said before, i'd be more worried about a block its much harder to clean out than a cooler which is simple in comparison
> 
> it also looks as if (from your comments) there is a hidden agenda to this thread, why not come straight out with it ?


I started this thread for peoples genral opinion not to $hit stir, Matt has been unfortunate to use a secondhand oil cooler and it resulted in a damaged engine sounds like the same for Danleman. Very bad thing to happen to anyone I am sure you would agree.

As for hidden agendas:chairshot 

behave






Smokey :smokin:


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

still no straight answer then :clap:


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

boppa said:


> After reading this , was wondering if I should chuck my ARC oil cooler away, as I spun a shell nearly 2 years ago , had the engine rebuilt, cleaned out the cooler, and all has been great since. Am i on borrowed time?



Yes mate the cooler will clearly be scrap and of little use. Tell you what...I'll take it off your hands. Hell, I'll even pick it up seeing as we're in the same county :chuckle: :chuckle: 

opcorn: 

TT


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Just want to add that I'm genuinely surprised by the results of the poll...almost 2:1 in favour of a new core    . I appreciate that some folks have had engine failures after subsequent rebuilds and would be interested to know exactly what the causes of these failures were!! 

All I would say is that, IMHO, IF these failures were caused by FOD I would humbly suggest that it would have come from block oilways as opposed to crap in the cooler (unless, of course it was NEVER flushed through). A block can, and does, hide all manner of scary stuff inside it and would be far more reluctant giving it up than a cooler core.

I have personally seen *huge *(relatively speaking) shards of metal in an oil gallery when I removed the gallery plugs on an old 205 block pinto I bought as a base for one of my comp engines. It was a runner when I bought it but had clearly seen some sort of failure at one time or another. Stripped it all down and got to work with some bottle cleaners and HP solvent. I can tell you that it was cleaner then than when it came out of the Ford factory. My point is that its possible that some garages might overlook thoroughly cleaning/flushing the block when rebuilding and this may be the cause of some problems later. I'm sure the block I cleaned wasnt the worst in terms of swarf caught up in a block. The RB26 being a six-cyl has even more space for crap to hide inside.
Where does all this end?? I appreciate the small costs associated with new cores but after a serious failure (short of a rod making a bid for freedom) the sort of logic being touted here would suggest that you buy a *new *block and head evry time something lets go......that is just plain crazy folks.

In all honesty guys how many of you do the work on your cars yourself and how many entrust specialists????. Now I'm not having a go at anyone but if a specialist cannot flush a core through properly then I suggest they may be removing your hard-earned for no reason. Spoke to my mate the other day who I used to work with at my old garage and told him of this thread...he almost wet himself. His word went along the lines of "you Skyline owners have more money than sense :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: ...Imagine buying a new oil cooler *snigger*" among other things. He's still in the motor trade and now works on performance cars and he couldnt believe some folks would bin a perfectly good cooler. I agree with him......And just before you all jump in with stuff like 'he must have 0 customers' or ' he must have an engine failure every day' :blahblah: :blahblah: I can say with all honesty that he has had not 1 engine come back in several years of building performance engines.

Anyway, yet again, the mantra seems to be...If you want to buy new then buy new. If your happy buying used then do so. I think Smokey had the answer to his initial question in his head long before he posted the poll.:chuckle: 
Still, keeps folks like Thinkauto in business though eh :chuckle: :chuckle: 

TT


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Andy W said:


> still no straight answer then :clap:



There's no hidden agenda with the thread starter Andy so there's no point pursuing it, as Smokey previously said, he posted it to get real opinions.

The truth, as I see it, is that there are plenty (Read more than one or two) of people who have had issues with, not just the subject matter of this thread but engine rebuilds in general.
Of all the threads regarding engines, parts or services, it's clear to see that there are groups of individuals who consider themselves to be in one camp or another.
Words of wisdom: These people (tuners) are not your friends, they provide you a service and you provide them with a healthy profit - simple as, never loose sight of that.

So, when threads like this start, you can always see the same old faces (guilty as charged) making an attempt to secretly warn others of their experiences.
The reason why it's secret: Because it's forbidden to give negative feedback... go figure!

I personally have nothing to hide, I will tell anyone what my experiences have been, that's how the community should evolve and should be cautious of practices that are being performed on our cars.
Like leaving the shells in the sump after a rebuild being another example, the list just gets bigger as you dig deeper.

It matters not whether people listen to the hidden agenda snipers as never a bad word is spoken directly, or if it is it's quickly removed.
What makes me laugh the most is every meet I've ever been to the same stories about each tuner get told by different customers. 
If I contracted a company to rebuild an engine at work and they took a short cut, they'd be struggling to get work in the rest of the industry full stop.

I've found actions speak louder than words and the actions of my solicitor will speak louder still!

Hopefully now we can get back on the subject topic and you'll have no reason to pursue your own hidden agenda


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Your words of wisdom are 100% correct of course...These folks are out to run a business and only on the odd occasion do you meet a tuner who has a genuine interest in customers cars and a passion for working on them.



> It matters not whether people listen to the hidden agenda snipers as never a bad word is spoken directly, or if it is it's quickly removed.
> What makes me laugh the most is every meet I've ever been to the same stories about each tuner get told by different customers.
> If I contracted a company to rebuild an engine at work and they took a short cut, they'd be struggling to get work in the rest of the industry full stop.


Were digressing a bit but there lies the problem...when you have an almost captive market(i.e Skyline ownership) you can pretty much do/charge as you please. If there are any mishaps then they will be forgotten over time. Unfortunately its a situation we help drive ourselves. Think of it like this.....
If you drove, for arguements sake, a Micra then you would probably have no problem with taking it to just aout ANY garage out there for servicing/repairs. Some of these 'Backstreet Motors' are real gems and some even have that passion I spoke of earlier. Yet nobody would even think to take their Skyline there for looking at would they?? They want someone with...... 'experience'.
The trouble with experience is that you have to get it from somewhere...If you have none, your stuffed.If you have some then your laughing. How did folks like Abbey, RBM, RKT etc gain this experience?????They either bought a Skyline themselves and tinkered with it or some owner decided to take a chance on them and entrust them with their car for 'development'.
At the end of the day 1 car is the same as the other, they are only more or less complex. Any good 'Backstreet Motors' armed with the workshop manual of ANY car could do the work. Indeed, thats how its done in the real world. Where I worked you were sent for training in any new model but in reality that consisted of pretty much diddly-squat. The only way you could gain expereince was by mulling over the WM and getting your hands on the cars themselves.
In the world of Skylines I think we sometimes forget that other garages out there are just as competent (and I'm sure the current specialists out there are happy for this to continue for business purposes...getting back to the whole captive market thing). The (mainstream) garage industry is highly competitive with decent labour rates, good workmanship and good customer service. If more of these folks were given the chance to work on Skylines then dont you think this would force the current set of specialists to maybe have a rethink of their practices??? At the moment THEY are the ones in control of us....wouldnt it be nice for US to be the ones in the driving seat so to speak.

TT


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

matt j said:


> I've found actions speak louder than words and the actions of my solicitor will speak louder still!
> 
> Hopefully now we can get back on the subject topic and you'll have no reason to pursue your own hidden agenda


if as you say you are involving a solicitor, then i fully understand the actions of the 'forum' in removing any threads/posts relating to the matter, nothing has been proven one way or the other

as for being in one camp or the other, i fall into neither, my hidden agenda ? carry on i'd like to hear what you think that is :chuckle: 
i replied on the thread for a simple reason, the reason being i believed what was being said was incorrect, is a forum not the place to voice opinion on such matters ? in my view it is possible to use a cooler again after a bearing has spun as long as measures are taken to ensure the part is clean and free of debris. I would say its far easier for a tuner to chuck the part in the bin then buy a new one and add it to the customers bill ! how many more parts should that happen to ? until we hear 'i was ripped off for a rebuild' :blahblah:


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

tarmac terror said:


> In the world of Skylines I think we sometimes forget that other garages out there are just as competent (and I'm sure the current specialists out there are happy for this to continue for business purposes...getting back to the whole captive market thing). The (mainstream) garage industry is highly competitive with decent labour rates, good workmanship and good customer service. If more of these folks were given the chance to work on Skylines then dont you think this would force the current set of specialists to maybe have a rethink of their practices??? At the moment THEY are the ones in control of us....wouldnt it be nice for US to be the ones in the driving seat so to speak.
> 
> TT


in truth though most garages don't want to know, its easier and far more profitable to service a Fiesta than it is a Skyline, it would be on the ramp for a couple of hours and any parts needed are usualy available inside an hour. Most maindealers are not geared up for 'fixing and fabrication' its 'remove and replace' usualy by a 18 year old lad who goes to college 1 day a week and is paid the minimum wage. strangely this never relates to the labour rates of £90 p/h


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

tarmac terror said:


> Your words of wisdom are 100% correct of course...These folks are out to run a business and only on the odd occasion do you meet a tuner who has a genuine interest in customers cars and a passion for working on them.
> TT


That's exactly why i went to Tweenirob, You hit the nail on the head there TT.


Mick


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

do you do a lot of Charity work Mick ?

you spend a hell of a lot on your car, so you must earn a heathy proffit from what you do and thats your business no one elses, are others not aloud to earn a living from what they do ?

no doubt you current flavour of the month garage do also


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Andy W said:


> do you do a lot of Charity work Mick ?
> 
> you spend a hell of a lot on your car, so you must earn a heathy proffit from what you do and thats your business no one elses, are others not aloud to earn a living from what they do ?
> 
> no doubt you current flavour of the month garage do also


Don't be silly now Andy. I dont even have a job.

Mick


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

ah i see, just an expensive company car tax loss


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Andy W said:


> if as you say you are involving a solicitor, then i fully understand the actions of the 'forum' in removing any threads/posts relating to the matter, nothing has been proven one way or the other


lol, if you say so.
Without knowing the facts, you're completely in the dark 



Andy W said:


> as for being in one camp or the other, i fall into neither, my hidden agenda ? carry on i'd like to hear what you think that is :chuckle:


I might not do a lot of posting but I do a lot of reading.
Any chance you get you can't resist your own snipe :thumbsup: 
Mapping anyone?


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

m6beg said:


> That's exactly why i went to Tweenirob, You hit the nail on the head there TT.
> 
> 
> Mick


Fair point...cant argue with that . Only had the briefest of dealings with Rob. Came across as a decent sort of chap though.

TT


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

matt j said:


> lol, if you say so.
> Without knowing the facts, you're completely in the dark


and facts come from ? one side ......or both ?



matt j said:


> I might not do a lot of posting but I do a lot of reading.
> Any chance you get you can't resist your own snipe :thumbsup:
> Mapping anyone?


LOL, hold on let me go back through THIS thread and see where i said anything about mapping, i was asked to keep that off the forum and have done so


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Andy W said:


> and facts come from ? one side ......or both ?


Facts are facts, evidence is evidence - there are no sides when an independant engineer does the assessment.



Andy W said:


> LOL, hold on let me go back through THIS thread and see where i said anything about mapping, i was asked to keep that off the forum and have done so


A snipe is a snipe irrespective of where it's written.

I'll leave you and your big wooden spoon to continue off topic.

Meanwhile, back on the oil cooler topic;
I still stand by what I said - bin it and start afresh after bearing failure unless you know 100% it's been 'propperly' cleaned.


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

matt j said:


> I'll leave you and your big wooden spoon to continue off topic..


PMSL and it went off topic because :chuckle: 
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/88786-new-used-oil-cooler-6.html#post812242



matt j said:


> Meanwhile, back on the oil cooler topic;
> I still stand by what I said - bin it and start afresh after bearing failure unless you know 100% it's been 'propperly' cleaned.


which is just what i said in the first place, it can be used again if cleaned properly


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Andy W said:


> it can be used again if cleaned properly


Agreed and seeing as it's nearly 7pm, I'm off to the pub to get pished and look at Russian supermodels. (Just don't tell the misses! )

Happy New Year peeps.


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## Alex j B (Apr 24, 2004)

tarmac terror said:


> Just want to add that I'm genuinely surprised by the results of the poll...almost 2:1 in favour of a new core    . I appreciate that some folks have had engine failures after subsequent rebuilds and would be interested to know exactly what the causes of these failures were!!
> 
> All I would say is that, IMHO, IF these failures were caused by FOD I would humbly suggest that it would have come from block oilways as opposed to crap in the cooler (unless, of course it was NEVER flushed through). A block can, and does, hide all manner of scary stuff inside it and would be far more reluctant giving it up than a cooler core.
> 
> ...


Exactly what I've been thinking, so when people start throwing complete engines out due to bearing failure, chuck them my way! 

Alex B


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## r33 v-spec (May 24, 2002)

TT, you've hit the nail on the head with all of the above! Couldn't agree more!


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

i've got a used oil cooler on my car and not had any problems

re: "negative feedback"

becasuse the forum is "liable" for anything posted on the forum that could be considered libelous, we simply cannot take the risk of allowing people to say what they want and to hell with the consequences.

what i would say though, so long as there's no legal restriction, once your legal action is complete, i'm fairly sure you can post the results to your hearts content.

please don't "blame" the forum, or cem or anyone else if you feel restricted in what you can post, just understand we cannot afford to be taken to court, even if you are telling the truth.

mook


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## Shakey Finch (Jul 5, 2005)

buy new


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## chris singleton (Jul 20, 2005)

PMSL at this thread..........all 7 pages of it 

Smokey's a top fella, I don't think he's got the time or the inclination to have sly digs at people, if he thinks someone is a muppet, he'll normally just tell them


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

I did know my own answer to this question before I posted this but was rather looking forward to other GTR owners responses, didn't for the life of me think it would go seven pages or it would causes such a fuss. I am up front but wanted to know other peoples thoughts, from something so simple as a oil cooler., I have learnt an awful lot about users of this forum. From one camp or another ? I have no idea but some replies have deffo been from members who have been hearing something else. For me new every time, block, oil cooler the works. I don't want to run a time bomb and deffo dont want to drive one.



Smokey :smokin:


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## banzai g (Jan 5, 2007)

From what im reading theres members on this forum trying to stir the pot !!! As far as i see a member posted a poll !!! And asked a genuine question , And some people has made a big deal about it ! It has been very interesting reading about everyones thoughts on this matter !!! But i dont think it was posted to blacking anyones name.


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## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

banzai g said:


> From what im reading theres members on this forum trying to stir the pot !!!


I'm so glad everyone can see it, its getting ****ing boring now!

Rob


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

:chuckle: :chuckle: 

i'm just off to find a white woolly coat


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## boppa (May 31, 2006)

Andy W said:


> :chuckle: :chuckle:
> 
> i'm just off to find a white woolly coat


Have a look in the sales , should get a Baaaa gain


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

crikey what have I been missing?

classic GTR forum, it is no wonder that this forum (and GTR owners) has the reputation they do.

It is simple engineering facts guys, if something is properly dealt with then reuse is viable, that goes for oil coolers, intercoolers, radiators, blocks, heads or any other component you care to mention.

wether that properly dealing with it is cost effective is another matter......

Still if spending a bit more moeny makes you feel better about something then go ahead and do it - I know I have on aspects of my rebuild, at least I still remain objective in knowing that it could still fail the first time I turn the key........

Simon


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Simonh said:


> It is simple engineering facts guys, if something is properly dealt with then reuse is viable, that goes for oil coolers, intercoolers, radiators, blocks, heads or any other component you care to mention.


I have 2 engineer's reports which would counter that claim.

It's definitely better to replace than run the risk of scrapping an engine and turbo for the sake of 200 quid.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

When a block is rebored what do you think happens to the swarf? It gets cleaned/washed away if that isn't done properly the the engine is doomed to failure at a later date.

The same principal applies to an oil cooler (which is a lot simpler than a block), if it isn't cleaned properly then it could well contribute to engine failure, the only question is whether the proper cleaning is more cost effective than replacement.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Simonh said:


> the only question is whether the proper cleaning is more cost effective than replacement.


What do you class as proper cleaning and what inspection technique would you use to ensure the safety of the engine?

I can assure you that pressure washing and flushing does not work.

Surely for peace of mind it's not worth the risk.


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Simonh said:


> The same principal applies to an oil cooler (which is a lot simpler than a block), if it isn't cleaned properly then it could well contribute to engine failure, the only question is whether the proper cleaning is more cost effective than replacement.



As Matt said, what is proper cleaning and who in the UK does it ? Seems this thread got slated as under hand from the start but all the people who claimed they would get a old oil cooler flushed out and cleaned up like brand new, even quotes of "a quick X-Ray inspection," get it ultrasonically cleaned" but have not posted where they can have done it, just claims that it can be done. Which IMHO is about as useful as a second hand oil cooler




Smokey :smokin:


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## fuelburner (Oct 26, 2006)

Definitely in the new oil cooler camp here, as pointed out previously £200 vs. your engine.... not much of a comparison really is it.

As for the cleaning methods mentioned, I think the time and probable cost more than negates that idea.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

well in all honesty I'd stick it in the ultrasonic cleaner at work  there must be places out there that do it though?


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

Ultrasonic Industrial Cleaning, Equipment and Contractors, Lincolnshire, UK

first link on a yahoo search - check the services page, specifically mentions oil coolers 

Simon


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## fuelburner (Oct 26, 2006)

Did you also check the Theory section specifically this bit "The vibration sets up acoustic cavitation on the *surface* of the submerged item" what about the inside, then there's the x-ray bit to consider that's been mentioned to ensure it's been done correctly, and there's no mention of cost on that website to clean to outside.

We are only talking of a few hundred quid to get a new one, surely piece of mind is worth that alone.


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## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

Cant be bothered to look back.... but why all the Angst about an oil to air cooling element ? cost £60 to £200 dependent on supplier !

Do you wash out your Condoms ??? 
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: 

Now that might make a good poll :chuckle: :chuckle: 

No deep hidden agenda to be read into this ! 
Cokey


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## scoooby slayer (Jun 13, 2009)

a second hand oil cooler must atleast be back washed with parafin/diesel as a minimum but then needs thoroughly blowing out to remove all fuel, i personally wouldnt use one there cheap anyways so why bother its false economy imo.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Glen will be happy to know I did a search and found this thread, lol.

What do you make of a guy who uses a second hand oil cooler on his engine for about 2 years, the bearings are well worn but not what you would call "failed"

He then gets a fully rebuilt long engine (no sump) where all oil gallery plugs etc were removed before acid dipping and hours spent on block prep/cleaning along with photographs of the entire build in what many would call a sergical type environmnt, where the guy agrees its all spotless, removes his old enigne, doesn't remove or clean out the cooler at all, just un does hoses, hooks hoses back up to new motor and away he goes with a new oil filter (upside down) on the remote filter housing.

About 6 hours later due to an unrelated thing, to do someother work, he decides to pull the pants off, checks the bearings and there are some scratches on them, no white metal missing, not failed at all, obviously good oil pressure etc etc.

Checks of bearings by independent assessor establish no carbon, sludge, alloy or dirt related to the new block or assembly etc but confirm fine steel (ferous) particles have been on bearings.

The first oil filter was used to prime oil pressure and get it ready for start up, then aparently taken off when the oil cooler/remote hosuing was connected, he said it was then put in a plastic bag and re-used on the remote housing after 2 other filters had been used.

It was cut open and was as clean as you could ever hope for, just signs of orange silicone (which I never use) he says the 2 other filters used in between were thrown away. 

Spring loaded bypass still in the side of the block, I'm happy its come from the cooler, filter housing/lines or an external sourse, anyone else have any thoughts on where contaminants could have come from to cause scratching?

Rob


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