# Michelin replace MPSS with the NEW Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, released Jan 2017!



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Folks,

Michelin replace MPSS with the NEW Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, released Jan 2017! interesting!! Can the mighty MPSS be bettered for ALL year round use on a GTR? Maybe stiffer sidewalls? hmmm Chronos

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Press Release - Tyre Reviews
http://news.blackcircles.com/2016/10/michelin-pilot-sport-4-s-set-for-january-launch/
http://blog.caranddriver.com/michelin-launches-new-king-of-all-tires-the-pilot-sport-4-s/











Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S - Press Release
After five years on the market, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport has been replaced. Meet the new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S

Sadly Michelin have chosen to drop the much loved "Super Sport" branding in favour of the making the product family more uniform. The "4 S" name could mislead you into thinking this tyre has all-season (or "four season") capabilities, but rest assured the new 4S is just as focused as the Michelin Pilot Super Sport was.

The product launch will take place in January 2017 as the tyre becomes available on the replacement market, and you can be sure we'll be the first to drive on the new Pilot Sport 4S as we're extremely excited about the replacement for one of our favourite tyres. 

For now, here's the press release, with some rather interesting comparisons made by the independent test organisation TUV.

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S - Press Release

Designed for sports cars and high performance saloons, the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S offers unparalleled driving pleasure thanks to its exceptional steering precision and directional stability. It provides maximum performance and safety on all surfaces due to its optimized tread footprint which grips the road in all situations, even the most extreme.

The MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S also displays excellent braking performance on both dry and wet surfaces, thanks to the use of ***8216;bi-compound technology***8217;. The outer part of the tread uses a new hybrid compound that promotes grip on dry ground while the inner part uses a new compound with silica and functional elastomers which allows the tyre to offer consistent grip on wet ground. This high performance on dry and wet surfaces, often conflicting characteristics in the world of super sports tyres, here have advanced together.

The MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S is the result of a unique know-how developed by engineers passionate about their work and redefines the standards of the category. Adapted for driving at the highest levels on road and on track, it has already positioned itself as the number one in its class. In tests conducted by the independent organization TÜV SÜD in Germany, the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S surpassed its five major competitors in the different workshops, and has become the first ultra-high performance tyre to dominate several key testing criteria simultaneously.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

It is very important to note that the "MPS4 S" is the successor to the MPSS. There will also be a cheaper "MPS4" which from my understanding will not be as good as the MPSS was.

I'm also guessing this post has come around from my post in the other thread telling the dude to hold out on buying the MPSS


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

For me the MPSS is the best all round badboy, for the R35 and I recently heard about Michelin " replacing, upgrading, improving" the MPSS for this new tyre.. So one thinks.

For the R35 the one questions IS... Have they made the sidewall stiffer, for high speed. (NO BOUNCE)

As all the other characteristics of the MPSS are just dandy (grip wet/dry/durability) We shall see.....Strangely I'm due a set of tyres come 2017 Jan.. hmmmmmm.


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

Chronos said:


> For me the MPSS is the best all round badboy, for the R35 and I recently heard about Michelin " replacing, upgrading, improving" the MPSS for this new tyre.. So one thinks.
> 
> For the R35 the one questions IS... Have they made the sidewall stiffer, for high speed. (NO BOUNCE)
> 
> As all the other characteristics of the MPSS are just dandy (grip wet/dry/durability) We shall see.....Strangely I'm due a set of tyres come 2017 Jan.. hmmmmmm.


If the dual compound technology from the Cup 2 makes it's way over and it's more wet-weather-friendly, we may have a new king. 
I'm due several sets of tyres in 2017...


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Johnny G said:


> If the dual compound technology from the Cup 2 makes it's way over and it's more wet-weather-friendly, we may have a new king.
> I'm due several sets of tyres in 2017...


Bit more info 
Introducing the MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4S - Blackcircles News




























Michelin have announced that in January 2017 they are set to launch their latest super sports tyre the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, designed specifically for sports cars, high performance saloons and hyper cars.

At launch the tyre will, initially, be released in 19, 20 and 21 inch sizes ; with further sizes expected later in the year.

*The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S*

*For the Pilot Sport 4S, Michelin have taken the best of the MICHELIN Pilot Super Sport tyre, coupled together with what they have learned from the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyre, to develop a thoroughbred sports tyre.
*
Michelin have worked hard to ensure the new tyre offers drivers and car manufacturers a fantastic blend of performance, safety and longevity.

*Michelin Pilot Sport 4S Features
*
Created to provide a super sport performance, the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S has received top marks in independent tyre tests to evaluating a range of desired sports car driving characteristics. Notably scoring high on the following:

1st on DRY braking(1)
1st on DRY laptime(1)
1st in longevity(2)
Michelin have created the Pilot Sport 4S with an ultra-reactive tread pattern design, which adapts continuously to the road ; delivering an optimised footprint on the surface.

The Pilot Sport 4S also features ;Dynamic Response; technology ; made from a hybrid belt of aramid and nylon to provide motorists with optimum handling performance.

Exceptional dry grip and improved wet braking have been achieved thanks to the use of Bi-Compound technology ; which features a novel hybrid elastomer for dry grip and a new mix of compound with specific ;functional elastomers; and silica for wet grip and braking.

To add further style to the substance, the Pilot Sport 4S is precision manufactured to feature;

a premium touch, velvet sidewall finish
deep rim protector to help protect your alloy wheels


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Hmmmmmm interested in what these are like as non of the current tyres compre to the bridgies that come in the car for stability and confidence (in the dry)


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> Hmmmmmm interested in what these are like as non of the current tyres compre to the bridgies that come in the car for stability and confidence (in the dry)


really? Hmmmmmmm!


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> Hmmmmmm interested in what these are like as non of the current tyres compre to the bridgies that come in the car for stability and confidence (in the dry)


Ehhh, have you tried any top end tyres like the mpss?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

kindai said:


> Ehhh, have you tried any top end tyres like the mpss?


Yeah, tried them and wasn't impressed, too much bounce at high speed, plus I'm not a lover of such a hard compound, they last twice as long as stock tyres for a reason. You can't beat stock RF's for stability and high speed confidence, Dunlop or Bridgy.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trevgtr said:


> Yeah, tried them and wasn't impressed, too much bounce at high speed, plus I'm not a lover of such a hard compound, they last twice as long as stock tyres for a reason. You can't beat stock RF's for stability and high speed confidence, Dunlop or Bridgy.


I'd like to raise R888 into the mix, I've found them good at high speed stability and confidence, but yes the mpss do bounce at high speed, I wonder if the new MPS4S will address this, I hope so!


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## Danny Danger (Jan 24, 2014)

I'm sure Lichfield will come along saying there the best thing since sliced bread then everyone will buy them


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Danny Danger said:


> I'm sure Lichfield will come along saying there the best thing since sliced bread then everyone will buy them


I'll be buying a set to try them out, but im a fan on Pzeros (which I know many dislike with a passion) but I get on with them very well.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

kindai said:


> Ehhh, have you tried any top end tyres like the mpss?


No I just like making random comments for effect lol yes I have tried cup2's and MPSS and as I have 12" wide rears I have no choice but to run these tyres as the Bridgies don't come in this size....... it saddens me almost enough to sell my after market wheels and go back to standard wheels! 

All these non run flats bounce horribly, makes me fee
Uncomfortable at pace, so confidence destroying as they are!! 

I hope these new tyres are stiffer

I did borrow a set of wheels off of BarryP with 888r's on and they were awesome, great feel to them!


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> No I just like making random comments for effect lol


Well this is the internet afterall...

But honestly ive not had any "confidence" issues with any of the tyres ive used apart from the Eagle F1's which made me want to cack myself they were so flakey.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Yet to find the perfect tyre. The Mpss bounce badly on fast.road use and the Bridgestones tram line dangerously. 

I would be interested to hear how good these new tyres are.


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

TREG said:


> Yet to find the perfect tyre. The Mpss bounce badly on fast.road use and the Bridgestones tram line dangerously.
> 
> I would be interested to hear how good these new tyres are.


If you haven't already done so, maybe you should try the 888Rs or the new Dunlops. Possibly all that you like with less of the bits that you don't ...


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

> Bridgestones tram line dangerously


I've had worse than the bridgestones.. and I hate the "slip" and bounce of the MPSS otherwise a good tyre


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## lordretsudo (Dec 24, 2011)

I'm interested to hear what anyone who gets these fitted thinks of them as my car needs a new set of tyres come the spring. I've only managed to get 6000 miles out of my Dunlop RF's and I don't even drive it especially hard. I was thinking of trying the MPSS but some of the comments on this thread make me wonder if I should think again...


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Evo9lution said:


> If you haven't already done so, maybe you should try the 888Rs or the new Dunlops. Possibly all that you like with less of the bits that you don't ...




Toyos are on the shopping list when I need to replace them. Always had the T1r's on my Subaru's and GTR 33 so really rate them still


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

TREG said:


> Toyos are on the shopping list when I need to replace them. Always had the T1r's on my Subaru's and GTR 33 so really rate them still


Non of the above have the "premium touch" of the 4s...... always worth paying more for the premium touch


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> Non of the above have the "premium touch" of the 4s...... always worth paying more for the premium touch


haha, people going round, feeling up their tyres! What a world we live in!


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Stealth69 said:


> Non of the above have the "premium touch" of the 4s...... always worth paying more for the premium touch




I hope they are better.

At present the Toyos are on top of my list until I've heard some more feedback on the new 4's.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

I have to confess that I haven't found a perfect tyre for all conditions.

The new Toyo R888R for track
The Michelin Cup2 XL N0 and N1 for fast dry road
The Michelin MPSS XL N0 and N1 for shopping and slow cruising
The New Dunlop R/F for peace of mind a good all round ability until it rains hard
The Bridgestone RE70 for really hot dry days and track
The new Pirelli Trofeo r to be tried in the spring 2017

Therefore I have a set of Toyo R888R's on a set of wheels, a set of Michelin MPSS on a set of wheels and a set of rather worn MPSCup2's that will be replaced by the Trofeo r's

All the tyres are mounted on OEM size wheels


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

nurburgringgtr said:


> I have to confess that I haven't found a perfect tyre for all conditions.
> 
> The new Toyo R888R for track
> The Michelin Cup2 XL N0 and N1 for fast dry road
> ...


bit mean on MPSS there tho I reckon, yeah they do get bouncey at high speed, but I've found for all round for dry and wet you can push on and have some fun with them, predictable grip and no tramlining.

Are you going to be trying out the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S? I think i will as once my car is back (blown engine) I currently have R888 on the alloys, which have been on since summer. So will need some all round tyres as don't fancy R888 on winter UK roads. Was going to get a set of MPSS, but fancy trying the MPS4S, hope they have made the sidewall stiffer! it will be interesting.


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## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

Thanks John, so for a wet track day? Would the MPSS be the chosen tyre?

Alittle confusing with the tyre names now as there is a Pilot Sport 4 available too.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Tin said:


> Thanks John, so for a wet track day? Would the MPSS be the chosen tyre?
> 
> Alittle confusing with the tyre names now as there is a Pilot Sport 4 available too.



Pilot Sport 4 is a high end road tyre 

Pilot Sport 4 *S *is the extreme performance replacement for the Super Sport


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> Pilot Sport 4 is a high end road tyre
> 
> Pilot Sport 4 *S *is the extreme performance replacement for the Super Sport


I can see some wrong orders going through with the similar model names. Must REMEMBER the S!


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> I can see some wrong orders going through with the similar model names. Must REMEMBER the S!



Yup, I have a feeling the MPS4 is going to get a lot of bad rep for this.


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## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

If i keep the car I was planning on getting the toyo 888Rs but these sound pretty good.. the cup2 tire was amazing round track but for some reason I just dont feel at 100% confidence on the road with the cup2.. maybe its cause I haven't found the right pressure or something but just doesnt feel right


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Tin said:


> Thanks John, so for a wet track day? Would the MPSS be the chosen tyre?
> 
> Alittle confusing with the tyre names now as there is a Pilot Sport 4 available too.


Yes Tin, the MPSS are the best in the wet and for something like a European tour where mixed conditions can prevail.

The new Michelin Pilot4S tyres do claim to have a slightly stronger sidewall and as soon as the XL version for the Porsche's come out (N0 and N1) I will try a set. I have a meeting with Michelin at the Autosports show on Friday to discuss for the GT-R


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## R35_owner (Jun 3, 2014)

I hope so love the mpss so do many others they can't discontinue it without beating it surly ?


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

nurburgringgtr said:


> Yes Tin, the MPSS are the best in the wet and for something like a European tour where mixed conditions can prevail.
> 
> The new Michelin Pilot4S tyres do claim to have a slightly stronger sidewall and as soon as the XL version for the Porsche's come out (N0 and N1) I will try a set. I have a meeting with Michelin at the Autosports show on Friday to discuss for the GT-R


Super! Keep us all posted please. :thumbsup:


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

In for comments, specifically from John ref Michelin chat...


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

billythefish said:


> In for comments, specifically from John ref Michelin chat...


Go on Kyle, be our Guinea Pig!


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## goldgtr35 (Aug 15, 2012)

R888 for track in dry and MPSS for track in wet.
R888 for summer and high speed runs, But heard they are limited to 190 MPH.

waiting for proper testing on the new Michelins before throwing money away


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## WSM (Oct 17, 2016)

I ran MPSS on the M4 - I thought they were an excellent tyre. I am not sure what the bounce at high speed is but I don't recall experiencing that - 161mph was the fastest my M4 was ever at - drag event / private road / track use etc all thrown in there. Great tyre, IMHO.

I heard good things about the R888 as well (Yokohama, I think!) but heard their wet road use is not great.

I live in Belfast so wet, greasy shitty roads are all we have and the MPSS on the M4 were perfecto.


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

WSM said:


> I ran MPSS on the M4 - I thought they were an excellent tyre. I am not sure what the bounce at high speed is but I don't recall experiencing that - 161mph was the fastest my M4 was ever at - drag event / private road / track use etc all thrown in there. Great tyre, IMHO.
> 
> I heard good things about the R888 as well (Yokohama, I think!) but heard their wet road use is not great.
> 
> I live in Belfast so wet, greasy shitty roads are all we have and the MPSS on the M4 were perfecto.


The bounce is due to the softer sidewalls on the MPSS compared to the OEM RFs (or even the Cup 2s and 888Rs) - the GTR is a heavy beast that puts huge forces through the tyres; even compared to an M4. I have mostly driven my GTR on MPSS from purchase so didn't really notice it as it was all that I knew. Having used 888Rs over the summer, I can confirm that it is there but, IMO only, is not that bad. I know that some others hate them with a passion though; especially if they have been driving on the RFs.

I generally use MPSS on the road (you really shouldn't be pushing beyond the limits of these tyres on the road anyway ...) as they give you (nearly) all weather performance. I will only use them when doing Euro Tours as it's not fun having to drive several hundred miles in torrential rain when on Bridgestone RFs - is it Steve?

888Rs (Toyo) are a semi-slick track day tyre that are road legal. They have a much stiffer sidewall than the MPSS but not quite as stiff as the OEM tyres. They give better performance on track though and the wet weather performance (apparently) is better than the OEM Bridgestones and original OEM Dunlops; though the latest revision of the OEM Dunlops are meant to be an improvement ...

If the MPS4Ss keep or improve on the wet weather performance, increase the dry performance and provide a stiffer sidewall, they will be truly exceptional tyres IMO. Fingers crossed ...

Wet, greasy and cold - the MPSS / MPS4S may be the best suited tyres for you IMO.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

I love the stock runflats, and find them absolutely fine in the rain too, giving lots of feedback with little wiggles of the car's hips. I still think some people may be biased against them because they've bought a car on 3/4 worn RF's and had a bad experience. Like most road tyres they do grip less when low on tread.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Ffs the new 4s don't come in big boy size!! Grrrrrrr


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Stealth69 said:


> Ffs the new 4s don't come in big boy size!! Grrrrrrr


wheres that?


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

I see

255/40 R 20 101 ZR(Y)
285/35 R 20 104 ZR(Y)

Listed?


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

The big boy sizes for the R35 GT-R are due early spring in the same configuration as the MPSS regarding size.
The wait will probably be March or April, but you can still get a set of Toyo R888R in 285 and 315 through the GTROC shop for £799.68 delivered including VAT 



kindai said:


> I see
> 
> 255/40 R 20 101 ZR(Y)
> 285/35 R 20 104 ZR(Y)
> ...


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Black circles


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

nurburgringgtr said:


> but you can still get a set of Toyo R888R in 285 and 315 through the GTROC shop for £799.68 delivered including VAT


Incredible price, had no idea they were available for that amount so many thanks.
Got a set of TSW Nurburgrings sat in the garage doing nothing, going to get them wrapped up with these for the summer.


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

nurburgringgtr said:


> The big boy sizes for the R35 GT-R are due early spring in the same configuration as the MPSS regarding size.
> The wait will probably be March or April, but you can still get a set of Toyo R888R in 285 and 315 through the GTROC shop for £799.68 delivered including VAT


Not big enough for me


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Stealth69 said:


> Not big enough for me


Is that what you say to all the men?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Chronos said:


> Is that what you say to all the men?


Just you princess


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## colin41 (Apr 26, 2015)

How does the r888r compare to the mpss 275-305 for road use (mostly dry roads)


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

update when I asked Iain Litchfield "We had a set of 285/345 arrive just before the show (NEC Autosport) but I have yet to drive on them. Will be taking the LM20 back on Sunday so will see. They are actually narrower than the previous mpss, with less sidewall spread but the same tread width. Hopefully have more information from Michelin next week"


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Iiiiiiiiiiinteresting, might actually be worth changing to these


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## colin41 (Apr 26, 2015)

Chronos said:


> update when I asked Iain Litchfield "We had a set of 285/345 arrive just before the show (NEC Autosport) but I have yet to drive on them. Will be taking the LM20 back on Sunday so will see. They are actually narrower than the previous mpss, with less sidewall spread but the same tread width. Hopefully have more information from Michelin next week"


285-345 would be a bit wide for a standard rim would they not?


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## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

The litchfield car clearly isnt on stick wheels...... but that is a massive difference in Tyre size.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Just ordered a full set of

255/40 R20
285/35 R20

£204 a corner.

The pricing is agreeable


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

kindai said:


> Just ordered a full set of
> 
> 255/40 R20
> 285/35 R20
> ...


Where from?!


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Trev said:


> Where from?!



Place local to me, they do me a good price on most things as I spend a good amount with them every year :chuckle:


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> Place local to me, they do me a good price on most things as I spend a good amount with them every year :chuckle:


You did get the Michelin Pilot Sport *4S*, and not the Michelin Pilot Sport *4*

note the "*S*" as there are 2 tyres with a similar name.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> You did get the Michelin Pilot Sport *4S*, and not the Michelin Pilot Sport *4*
> 
> note the "*S*" as there are 2 tyres with a similar name.




http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/5079697-post26.html


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/5079697-post26.html


Indeed, but does your garage know this.... I.e - not got the work experience lad to order them, and ordered the wrong ones.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> Indeed, but does your garage know this.... I.e - not got the work experience lad to order them, and ordered the wrong ones.


They'll be checked before they go on, but I did tell them to make sure it was the 4 S, and they said it was.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> They'll be checked before they go on, but I did tell them to make sure it was the 4 S, and they said it was.


Well you will be one of the 1st to have them bud, have you had mpss before? I hope so, then you can tell us your thoughts on how they compare  After the initial bed in process of the new tyres of course.


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## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

£1,095.28 is the cost from blackcircles

1 276,92£ for cup2s at tyreleader

can they really be cheaper and better? Altho i guess the original sizes vs bigger cup2 sizes will help with lower cost


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## Mozza_1981 (Dec 11, 2015)

Looking forward to the reviews on these as should be my next purchase in the spring


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

kindai said:


> Place local to me, they do me a good price on most things as I spend a good amount with them every year :chuckle:


Helpful!

Does this place near you have a name? :chuckle:


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

I'll have a chat with him, see what sort of price he could do them for you guys if it would help?


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

kindai said:


> I'll have a chat with him, see what sort of price he could do them for you guys if it would help?


Yes please, mine will need replacing soonish and at the prices I'm getting online (current MPSS) is frankly extortionate.

£1,000 or there abouts.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

NoPk11 said:


> £1,095.28 is the cost from blackcircles
> 
> 1 276,92£ for cup2s at tyreleader
> 
> can they really be cheaper and better? Altho i guess the original sizes vs bigger cup2 sizes will help with lower cost





Trev said:


> Yes please, mine will need replacing soonish and at the prices I'm getting online (current MPSS) is frankly extortionate.
> 
> £1,000 or there abouts.


They are on blackcircles now

I wonder if GTRoc will be getting them at *nice* prices?... Mr.Nurburgring..

Buy Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Tyres Online at Blackcircles.com

in *XL*

245/30 R20 Y (90) £259.73
245/35 R20 Y (95) £236.11
255/35 R20 Y (97) £223.61
255/40 R20 Y (101) £255.49
265/30 R20 Y (94) £276.23
275/30 R20 Y (97) £287.32
285/35 R20 Y (104) £292.15


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Trev said:


> Yes please, mine will need replacing soonish and at the prices I'm getting online (current MPSS) is frankly extortionate.
> 
> £1,000 or there abouts.


Ok, spoke with him, he doesn't do shipping, so basically if you wanted them he'd order them in then i'd have to go collect them and ship them down to you, but £204 is the current price per corner on the sizes I listed earlier.

Having never shipped 4 tyres before, no idea on the cost but if you want to arrange something I don't mind helping out as long as im not falling foul of any rules.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Trev said:


> Yes please, mine will need replacing soonish and at the prices I'm getting online (current MPSS) is frankly extortionate.
> 
> £1,000 or there abouts.


Tyre prices these days are extortionate and have been for 8 or 9 years now, there's so many middle men all wanting their slice of the pie, and they've realised they can get away with it.

I always use Bridgestone RF's RE070R's, I find them fantastic for grip and even good in the rain (unlike most I know) plus the high speed blowout peace of mind is a plus, which are available usually around 900-950 per stock set (NHPC's used to try to charge 2.5k for the Dunlop version of these haha, not sure what they quote now).

How Michelin can charge more than that for bog standard tyres is a racket, the RF's are a work of art in comparison, to be able to take a 150 mph blowout. Mich lovers are being taken to the cleaners unfortunately.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

kindai said:


> Ok, spoke with him, he doesn't do shipping, so basically if you wanted them he'd order them in then i'd have to go collect them and ship them down to you, but £204 is the current price per corner on the sizes I listed earlier.
> 
> Having never shipped 4 tyres before, no idea on the cost but if you want to arrange something I don't mind helping out as long as im not falling foul of any rules.


I have a feeling your garage friend is going to be busy. Just tell him to take orders and ship them out, it's not difficult, just a phone call to a courier. He will get a lot of sales at that price.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Trevgtr said:


> I have a feeling your garage friend is going to be busy. Just tell him to take orders and ship them out, it's not difficult, just a phone call to a courier. He will get a lot of sales at that price.


I suggested this, the thing is however they are literally rammed from 9am-6pm non stop with people wanting tyres, and thats with 4 lads working on 2-3 cars at a time. Turning up and waiting an hour to 90 minutes is expected unless you get very lucky. 

Thats where he makes the money I guess, on the fitting (£10 a corner) the tyres are done at a couple of quid or even at-cost price to him, so while he's happy to get the tyres in at that sort of price, he doesn't really have the incentive to arrange for a courier contract / hassle of shipping them out.


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Sounds like a nice honest business. At that sort of price though he could add on 100 quid a set and still undercut the other suppliers by 150-200 quid. Just goes to show the mark-up and greed of the others.


----------



## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

Thing is if these tyres are cheaper than cup2s, are they actually going to be as good or better than cup2s?

My tyres are likely to get trashed on a track day, at least thats what happened with the cup2s, so although I'm really tempted by these I'm leaning more towards just getting the cheaper Toyo R888R at like £900 which should be just as good if not better?


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

NoPk11 said:


> Thing is if these tyres are cheaper than cup2s, are they actually going to be as good or better than cup2s?


Could be that Cup2's are that price simply because market research dictates they will sell at that price, which doesn't necessarily make them a better quality tyre.


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

These tyres are more all-rounder tyres than the Cup 2s. They are replacements for the MPSS. Cup 3s will replace the Cup 2s (eventually).

888Rs will be better than both on track ...


----------



## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

Evo9lution said:


> These tyres are more all-rounder tyres than the Cup 2s. They are replacements for the MPSS. Cup 3s will replace the Cup 2s (eventually).
> 
> 888Rs will be better than both on track ...


If I keep the car I think I'll get the 888Rs purely because they are cheaper and will be better on track. If I had a 2nd pair of wheels though I think the MPS4s sound like the best tyre to go for

I'll wait to hear from people that try them tho, maybe someone thats tried 888R / cup2s and then these can give a good review


----------



## colin41 (Apr 26, 2015)

Anyone know when the wider versions will be available? Also if they are worth waiting for?


----------



## Prits_88 (Nov 2, 2015)

Anyone tried these yet? 

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


----------



## NickB (Nov 27, 2016)

colin41 said:


> Anyone know when the wider versions will be available? Also if they are worth waiting for?


Not for a while according to Litchfields....


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

I took my friends car out today which had four MPS4S fitted last week, he has since put ~800 miles on them.

Comparing vs Pzeros and MPSS, please note my current setup is Pzeros so I am recalling from memory the time with MPSS.

Conditions were dry but damp and cold. No standing water but the roads hasn't dried.

Grip: Is through the roof, as you would expect with any high performance tyre. I entered corners confident the front end was going to stick as it did. I always felt the pzero was a stickier tyre personally and this equals if not beats it in that regard. Tight corners turned with great accuracy, and long sweeping corners gave me no cause for concern as I pushed the speed up as much as I could before running out of road.

Feedback: The stiffer sidewall is evident, feedback was quite pronounced. Better than both Pzero and MPSS.

Ride quality: Despite the increased stiffness, ride quality didn't seem much effected. Granted I wasn't really paying attention to the ride quality over the drive itself, but it's not like moving to runflats thats for sure.


Will be getting mine fitted soon for sure, at 200 a corner, its a great tyre at a fantastic price, given how cold it is currently also, I think once it warms up they will be a mind blowingly good set of boots.


----------



## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

Great write up, sound awesome! Can anyone tell me whether Michelin will be bringing these out in bigger sizes? I'm currently running 285 on front and 345 on rear?


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

For those interested, this is the route I took: 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/5...0x4870ec0a15a01fdb:0x2c7bb0c26652dd52!1m0!3e0

So had a great variety of things to try.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> I took my friends car out today which had four MPS4S fitted last week, he has since put ~800 miles on them.
> 
> Comparing vs Pzeros and MPSS, please note my current setup is Pzeros so I am recalling from memory the time with MPSS.
> 
> ...



Nice positive feedback, good to hear the sidewall is stiffer and ride is still good, I think we were all hoping for that! thanks.


----------



## NickB (Nov 27, 2016)

Good review - thanks! My RFLs need replacing soon, so i'll give the 4S a try. Am reluctant to change - see this post... http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/493969-r35-euro-shuttle.html but the tramlining, noise and general skittishness of the RFL's are reason enough for me to try something else. 




kindai said:


> I took my friends car out today which had four MPS4S fitted last week, he has since put ~800 miles on them.
> 
> Comparing vs Pzeros and MPSS, please note my current setup is Pzeros so I am recalling from memory the time with MPSS.
> 
> ...


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Michelin have, for the previous few years, offered a £75 fuel card for a set of four 19" or larger tyres bought between march 1st and April 31st. 

Worth considering if your a penny pincher like me given we're only a few weeks away.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

borat52 said:


> Michelin have, for the previous few years, offered a £75 fuel card for a set of four 19" or larger tyres bought between march 1st and April 31st.
> 
> Worth considering if your a penny pincher like me given we're only a few weeks away.


Problem is it will be from particular centers only, usually with a markup which doesnt offset the fuel card gain


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

kindai said:


> Problem is it will be from particular centers only, usually with a markup which doesnt offset the fuel card gain


Litchfied have been on the list in the past and many on here will use them at service time for new tyres I would imagine, as have camskill who are usually as cheap as anyone else.

I got my last few sets of Michelins through formula one autocentres who were the cheapest fitted for MPSS and qualified for the £75 card.


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## NickB (Nov 27, 2016)

borat52 said:


> Litchfied have been on the list in the past and many on here will use them at service time for new tyres I would imagine, as have camskill who are usually as cheap as anyone else.
> 
> I got my last few sets of Michelins through formula one autocentres who were the cheapest fitted for MPSS and qualified for the £75 card.


Litchfileld quoted me £1,250 for the "old" PSS when they had my car last week. Naturally, i passed on that. They said the new PS4 were not available yet. My local tyre place quoted £1,100 for the PS4 and can get them in. They are usually about 10% more expensive than the cheapest quote if i hunt around.


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

Camskill or Costco are usually the most competitive prices for Michelin tyres, anybody had a price quote for the new tyres from Costco yet?


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Some interesting info, from the tyre developers below - January 24, 2017

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/michelins-new-pilot-sport-4s-better-pilot-super-sport/

*Is Michelins New Pilot Sport 4S Better Than the Pilot Super Sport?
*

*We had some pretty demanding requests from product marketing (for the PS4S); said Carl Driver, senior product development engineer at Michelin ;They wanted better dry/wet braking, lap times and rolling resistance. They also wanted to maintain wear ; the 30,000-mile warranty. Take everything we had with the PSS and expand it for the PS4S
*
Only two of the original 3000 compounds made it into the dual-compound PS4S. 60% of the compounds tested were for the inner portion of the tire; primarily for wet weather. New functional elastomers (rubber) are utilized, which are patented and manufactured in-house by Michelin. The outer portion of the tire features carbon black material, increasing dry grip by managing and dissipating heat. A variable contact patch reduces stresses and pressures on the tire, improving grip further.

Our validation took place at The Thermal Club; a private country club track facility just outside picturesque Palm Springs, California. We started on an autocross course; a surprisingly wet autocross course. You can almost guarantee dry conditions in the desert but, surprisingly, the skies opened shortly before our drive. Given that one of Michelins key goals was to expand wet performance beyond the PSS, we wonder if the company made a deal with Mother Nature. Either way, the PS4S did not disappoint.

The rear-wheel drive BMW 340i test vehicle impressively resisted understeer and easily transferred the robust torque of the turbocharged inline-6 into forward motion on the drenched pavement. A direct comparison to the Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position revealed that the PS4S carried more grip and outright pace throughout the course.

Further Michelin highlights include overall consistency and confidence, as well as braking performance. We casually measured wet braking from roughly 60 mph on the PS4S versus the Bridgestone and the Michelin came out on top by an average of 12 feet. Michelins more-scientific internal testing reveals the PS4S beats the Potenza by 2.2 meters (7.2 feet) when braking on wet pavement from 80 km/h (just under 50 mph).

A brief run in a BMW M4 on a wet section of the road course at The Thermal Club validated the PS4Ss rain skills. Again, grip was plentiful and, when the limits of adhesion were reached, the Michelin UHP tire gave us plenty of warning, with a progressive drop in its hold on the rain-soaked circuit. Like on the autocross track, the PS4S also allowed brisk acceleration out of slow corners without significantly triggering the traction control. Keep in mind that the BMW M4 is known to overwhelm the rear tires at low speeds, even on dry pavement.

Our final leg of our PS4S review was a road drive through Joshua Tree National Park in a Ferrari California T and Mercedes-AMG GT S. The pace was slow and the loop relatively short, but it allowed us to confirm that the PS4S is a smooth and responsive tire on public roads with no glaring flaws or issues. We found turn-in to be a particular highlight on that portion of the test. Our thoughts on road noise will have to wait until were on more familiar pavement and we'll have to take Michelins word on wear, at least for now.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

NickB said:


> Litchfileld quoted me £1,250 for the "old" PSS when they had my car last week. Naturally, i passed on that. They said the new PS4 were not available yet. My local tyre place quoted £1,100 for the PS4 and can get them in. They are usually about 10% more expensive than the cheapest quote if i hunt around.


Make sure they are the PS4S and XL with N0 front and N1 rear (might be the other way round, but they must be N for Porsche as they are the stiffer tyre walls that MIGHT be suitable for the GT-R) 
I am still awaiting a set to test and have been informed that will not be available in the right size for standard rims until March - they might be lying though.


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## NickB (Nov 27, 2016)

nurburgringgtr said:


> Make sure they are the PS4S and XL with N0 front and N1 rear (might be the other way round, but they must be N for Porsche as they are the stiffer tyre walls that MIGHT be suitable for the GT-R)
> I am still awaiting a set to test and have been informed that will not be available in the right size for standard rims until March - they might be lying though.


Good points, thanks John. My RFL's have about 4-5mm on them so i guess March timing will work out ok. It'll be very interesting to see what you make of them.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Anyone recognise the tread pattern of the tyre on this GTR (right at the end of clip) personally I love the Dunlop or 888

KkH4CDkIR9o&feature=youtu.be


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

dudersvr said:


> Anyone recognise the tread pattern of the tyre on this GTR (right at the end of clip) personally I love the Dunlop or 888


Looks like a sport cup 2?


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

kindai said:


> Looks like a sport cup 2?


Looks like its up to the job.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

dudersvr said:


> Looks like its up to the job.


Yup it is:












The sport cup 2 is a fantastic tyre, no good on the roads though as they'll disintegrate within a week


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## Danny Danger (Jan 24, 2014)

Whats the best tyre sizing then. Stick with oem size, squared setup or the litchfield 275 front 305 rears


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

kindai said:


> Yup it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who told you that? They are a very good road tyre, You need to be careful in cold, wet conditions as they are not as good as MPSS but in the dry they are excellent. They are the standard fitment on the Porsche GT3 so it is unlikely that Porsche would fit a tyre that "disintegrates within a week".


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

barry P. said:


> Who told you that? They are a very good road tyre, You need to be careful in cold, wet conditions as they are not as good as MPSS but in the dry they are excellent. They are the standard fitment on the Porsche GT3 so it is unlikely that Porsche would fit a tyre that "disintegrates within a week".



Yeah but Michelin kindly nick half the tread before you turn a wheel !!!!


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Danny Danger said:


> Whats the best tyre sizing then. Stick with oem size, squared setup or the litchfield 275 front 305 rears


Personally I think they work well with as much rubber as poss on the back wheels to get the power down.


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

dudersvr said:


> Yeah but Michelin kindly nick half the tread before you turn a wheel !!!!


Over 5mm on new Cup 2. (You've been buying those old shagged ones on Ebay from the GT3 trackday guys again )


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## DocT (Dec 17, 2014)

For road use only would anyone recommend the Cup2 over the MPSS (MPS4) ?


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

DocT said:


> For road use only would anyone recommend the Cup2 over the MPSS (MPS4) ?


If you're not going on track I'd stick to MPSS as they are much safer in heavy rainfall and cold weather. I have two sets of rims, one with Cup 2 fitted and one with MPSS, I swap them over for Summer and Winter driving.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

DocT said:


> For road use only would anyone recommend the Cup2 over the MPSS (MPS4) ?


Have a read here -
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/293562-michelin-pilot-sport-cup-2-anyone-using-them-11.html#post4684514



barry P. said:


> If you're not going on track I'd stick to MPSS as they are much safer in heavy rainfall and cold weather. I have two sets of rims, one with Cup 2 fitted and one with MPSS, I swap them over for Summer and Winter driving.


What He said, I prefer R888 on track tho. Not tried the R888R yet.

am looking forward to trying Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tho, hoping they are out in 275/305 XL soon.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

barry P. said:


> Over 5mm on new Cup 2. (You've been buying those old shagged ones on Ebay from the GT3 trackday guys again )


OK 3mm LOL I prefer the dunlop runflats dude and 888 for more serious work plus 888 just look cool !!!!!!


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai was gonna take your offer, but can't get time off work and its a bit of a trek down to the garage.. could probs do weekends, but you said it'll be busy...

spotted these on ebay, 27530ZR20 MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S 97Y
Dunno fi they would fit on the front ok 27530ZR20 MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S 97Y EXTRA LOAD X2 MATCHING SET | eBay

anywhere selling them delivered at a good price?

I guess at the moment, only 

255/40 R 20 101 ZR(Y) x2 front
285/35 R 20 104 ZR(Y) x2 rear

will fit the R35, till the big boys sizes 275/305 come out...

Must say the 4S tread pattern is quite similar to mpss, just looks a tad more jagged! haha


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

That's a shame, nevermind


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Got mine ordered, will have them fitted Monday


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## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

Anyone planning on getting these for track use?

I get the impression they are the best for road use all year round but for track cup2 and R888R are still king?

My cup2s feel and look ruined after 2 days of spa. Reluctant to get them again as they were so bloody expensive just for 2 days of fun so tempted to go for the R888R. Think there's like a £400-500 saving on them over the cup2? Might even use that saving and get a spare pair of wheels just for them

But that picture posted make the cup2s and PS4 look nearly the same which makes me wonder if they would be decent on track?


For people ordering. Are they getting the standard GTR sizes?


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Right! New tyres done!

Thoughts? Well I gave them 10 miles or so scrub the worst of the release agents off before getting a bit frisky for 20 more miles. This was coming off my pzeros with 1.8mm of tread left all around.

So far, incredibly impressed. A definite improvement in all aspects, grip is incredible, theres a bit of road/hill I could easily turn into and spin the tyres up on pzeros when flooring it, when I did this with the MPS4S they hooked up instantly and launched me up the road!

Cornering and feedback is exactly as expected, though until they are scrubbed in for 100 or so miles I won't be pushing my luck there.

Slightly, but only marginally, noisier then the pzeros. 

Cost for all 4, £816 fitted.


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

kindai said:


> Cost for all 4, £816 fitted.


WOW what a great price!

Where is this place?

David


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Tinyflier said:


> WOW what a great price!
> 
> Where is this place?
> 
> David


Bromsgrove


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

kindai said:


> Bromsgrove


Worth the drive at that price - can you send me contact details please?

Good fitters? No wheel damages?

My car going to ACSpeedtech soon - I may well detour on the way back for a full set.

David


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Tinyflier said:


> Worth the drive at that price - can you send me contact details please?
> 
> Good fitters? No wheel damages?
> 
> ...


Pmed

Fitters are great with me, no damage to the wheels and they've done ~12 changes, respect the car. Just let them know the pressures and torque ratings.


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## lordretsudo (Dec 24, 2011)

What sizes did you have fitted? 285/35 and 255/40 as mentioned above? I need new tyres and am going to have to make my mind up in the next couple of weeks. I've only ever had Dunlop runflats but am thinking about trying something different as I only got 7000 miles out of the current set, without any tracking or especially hard driving...


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

lordretsudo said:


> What sizes did you have fitted? 285/35 and 255/40 as mentioned above? I need new tyres and am going to have to make my mind up in the next couple of weeks. I've only ever had Dunlop runflats but am thinking about trying something different as I only got 7000 miles out of the current set, without any tracking or especially hard driving...


Yes, those are the sizes I had.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Not trying to be pedantic but surely those are the wrong sizes.
285/35 should be 285/30 and the 255/40 should be 255/35. 

When we originally tried that size of tyre back in 2009, with the higher profile, they became dangerous at high speed because of the flex in the side wall and the actual tyre used (not Michelin) actually came off the rim and the subsequent damage was quite substantial.


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Those are the sizes my car came with, and have always used without issue.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

lordretsudo said:


> What sizes did you have fitted? 285/35 and 255/40 as mentioned above? I need new tyres and am going to have to make my mind up in the next couple of weeks. I've only ever had Dunlop runflats but am thinking about trying something different as I only got 7000 miles out of the current set, without any tracking or especially hard driving...


If you want to keep the runflat element, stock Bridgetsone RE070R's are about 150 quid a set less expensive than stock Dunlops, and last about 9-10k miles instead of 7-8k. I usually pay around 920 quid a set plus fitting.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

kindai said:


> Those are the sizes my car came with, and have always used without issue.


They're the normal sizes. One thing I noticed though on the one time I tried Michelin super sports, was that the actual width of the tyre when measured across the tread was a lot narrower than the same size stock tyres, which of course didn't help with understeer, i.e the 255 was actually nearer 235.


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## M3AL (Jan 7, 2016)

I've got these tyres coming in if your interested, brand new so would be good to hear some reviews on them as they've only just come out.


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## Danny Danger (Jan 24, 2014)

nurburgringgtr said:


> Not trying to be pedantic but surely those are the wrong sizes.
> 285/35 should be 285/30 and the 255/40 should be 255/35.
> 
> When we originally tried that size of tyre back in 2009, with the higher profile, they became dangerous at high speed because of the flex in the side wall and the actual tyre used (not Michelin) actually came off the rim and the subsequent damage was quite substantial.


I'm running 265 front 295 rear, was quite a lengthy post on nagtroc and they said this size was close to Oem rolling radius. I'm due new tyres shortley what sizes do you recommend.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

M3AL said:


> I've got these tyres coming in if your interested, brand new so would be good to hear some reviews on them as they've only just come out.


Having had them on a couple of days now and been driving, they have really come along nicely they've had a good scrub in. 

Even today with it being soggy and wet, the grip is just phenomenal compared to the pzeros.


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## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

nurburgringgtr said:


> Not trying to be pedantic but surely those are the wrong sizes.
> 285/35 should be 285/30 and the 255/40 should be 255/35.
> 
> When we originally tried that size of tyre back in 2009, with the higher profile, they became dangerous at high speed because of the flex in the side wall and the actual tyre used (not Michelin) actually came off the rim and the subsequent damage was quite substantial.


285/35 and 255/40 are stock sizes John


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Just to let people know, prices are on the rise. The 285/35 has gone up £30 this week


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## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

No sign of the fatboy sizes yet? :squintdan


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Tin said:


> No sign of the fatboy sizes yet? :squintdan





Chronos said:


> They are on blackcircles now
> 
> I wonder if GTRoc will be getting them at *nice* prices?... Mr.Nurburgring..
> Buy Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Tyres Online at Blackcircles.com
> ...


Ok just checked the Michelin website, looks like some more sizes have popped up

normally with MPSS we would get staggered and fit - 
275/35ZR20/XL 102 (Y)
305/30ZR20/XL 103 (Y)

So we are looking for the same sizes with the new MPS4S?....

anyhow now on the michelin website they have MPS4S in 305 for rears- 
Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Tyres | Michelin UK

*305/30 R 20 103 ZR(Y)* Which wasnt there on release.. and they not on blackcircles YET* , BUT Camskill have them!! woo £250.95 inc.VAT each ( Michelin Pilot Sport 4S PS4S - 305/30 R20 (103Y) XL TL)
https://www.camskill.co.uk/m63b5275...C_Wet_Grip:_A_NoiseClass:_2_Noise:_73dB/RS_GB

and still from release date for fronts
275/30 R 20 97 ZR(Y)
275/30 R 20 97 ZR(Y) MO
*BUT we need 275/35 * ..........


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

Hoping they bring out 345's???


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

billythefish said:


> Hoping they bring out 345's???


they just have bud! click the links on my thread fella  or below haha , camskill have them! *not sure if they are XL tho.........
*
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S PS4S - 345/30 R20 (106Y) TL / £335.80 inc.VAT each

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m63b5275...port_4S_PS4S_-_R20_inch_-_345_30_20_345_30R20

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Tyres | Michelin UK


----------



## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

Chronos said:


> they just have bud! click the links on my thread fella  or below haha , camskill have them! *not sure if they are XL tho.........
> *
> Michelin Pilot Sport 4S PS4S - 345/30 R20 (106Y) TL / £335.80 inc.VAT each
> 
> ...


Sweet!! Is that the right spec tyre for the GTR though, don't I need XL or something?


----------



## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

Chronos said:


> Ok just checked the Michelin website, looks like some more sizes have popped up
> 
> normally with MPSS we would get staggered and fit -
> 275/35ZR20/XL 102 (Y)
> ...


The cup2 size of 265/35 & 305/30 have a closer ratio than 275. That was the closest available, as they didn't make a 265 MPSS XL variant.

If they do a 265 XL in the 4S, I'd personally go for that.


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Dont quote me as gospel but I think all MPS4S are XL?


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## dominic1 (Feb 16, 2012)

billythefish said:


> Hoping they bring out 345's???


they have .... they on on the lm20


----------



## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

I'm going to have to get some tyres in the next month or 2... really need to make a decision between the 4S / R888R / Cup2s. (think as R888R are only £200 cheaper now and the wet grip seems bad I'll probably ignore them)
I've currently got the cup2s, and they were awesome on track, but I do see what people say about the bounce. I got the bigger recommended sizes but looking on tyre leader and blackcircles it seems both MPS 4S and cup2s are available in the standard sizes.

Any reason why you'd get the bigger sizes over the stock?? Surely stock is the best option, and you only get the bigger sizes because they wasn't available?

Both Cup2s and MPS 4S in stock sizes are about same price now, £1035 (cup2s) vs £1057... last year I paid around £1350 for my cup2s as I bought them right after Brexit (awesome timing that was) so I'm tempted to buy some now before prices change again.


Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S
255/40 R20 Y (101)
High Performance Tyres - Reinforced 
£247.66	

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S
285/35 R20 Y (104)
High Performance Tyres - Reinforced 
£281.00	

----------------------------------------------------

Michelin
Pilot Sport CUP 2
255/40 ZR20 101Y XL
£245,09

Pilot Sport CUP 2
285/35 ZR20 104Y XL	
£272,89



I get that the MPS4s seem like an awesome tyre, but i get the impression its the best "road tyre" and cup2s are still going to be the best "track tyre"?
I ideally want the best tyres for track, as I plan on doing multiple track days this year.. so I'm leading towards the cup2s, but maybe it wont hurt to try a change..


Anyone with MPS4s planning on doing a track day soon? 


https://youtu.be/F65rXOlS2f8?t=7m42s
according to this dude.. 
"if you want the ultimate dry or track day tyre you go for the cup 2s, they are 80% track 20% road"
"where as 4s is 20% track 80% road"
be nice if he does a cup2 vs mps4s comparison


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

If you want the best track tyres you go for 888Rs


----------



## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

Evo9lution said:


> If you want the best track tyres you go for 888Rs


any reason why you would choose 888R over cup2s? personal experience? 

I used the R888 on my r8 and they were awesome, but i didnt think they were any worse or better than the cup2s


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

They are just more track focused than the Cup 2s and appear to have a stiffer sidewall and have higher grip levels. Cup 2s can be OEM fitment for some cars but 888Rs are not and there's a reason for that ...

The best person to speak to is nurburgringgtr, who can give you a proper low-down on the best tyres for track.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

BiG boy sizes - 275/305

MICHELIN
Pilot Sport 4 S
275 / 35 R 20 102 Y
https://shop.atseuromaster.co.uk/tyres/michelin/pilot-sport-4s/275-35-20-Y-102-1-59BDG1

and 
MICHELIN
Pilot Sport 4 S
305 / 30 R 20 103 Y
https://shop.atseuromaster.co.uk/tyres/michelin/pilot-sport-4s/305-30-20-Y-103-1-59BDFG

Showing at ATS now, but not on the Michelin website yet. Maybe ATS are getting them in very soon, so have them on the website for sale, I will email them.

National tyres and autocare - have both sizes as well
https://www.national.co.uk/tyres/brand/michelin/pilot-sport-4s-xl/


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

On Friday the roads were great, and it was nice weather, so took the car out for a real blast on the new tyres.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.3...ccd2dUfZ0rUdVWI9Zw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

I'm not going to tell you how fast I came down the straight and around this 270 degree corner then out the other side, but it was quick, very quick, scary quick, and they held on like no tomorrow.

It's one of my favorite bits of road, and if any of you pass through Redditch I suggest giving it a go  When you come out the corner you pass under the bridge just as you put the power down so it reverbs right at the best bit of the power band, brings a smile every time.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.2912584,-1.8641673,2323a,20y,346.84h,44.46t/data=!3m1!1e3


----------



## colin41 (Apr 26, 2015)

For dry road use what would people recommend?
4s or cup 2 I see there is little difference in price


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

colin41 said:


> For dry road use what would people recommend?
> 4s or cup 2 I see there is little difference in price


See my cup2 info below , epic in the summer like glue super sticky!, diabolical in the winter on the road for me. (cant get the heat into them!)

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/293562-michelin-pilot-sport-cup-2-anyone-using-them-11.html#post4684514

I'm going for the 275/35/20 305/30/20 4S (michelin-pilot-sport-4s) I reckon, fancy trying them out, and people seem to like them from the reviews on here, will be interesting to see hat they are like come winter, if they are half as good as MPSS i will be happy.



kindai said:


> I'm not going to tell you how fast I came down the straight and around this 270 degree corner then out the other side, but it was quick, very quick, scary quick, and they held on like no tomorrow.
> It's one of my favorite bits of road, and if any of you pass through Redditch I suggest giving it a go  When you come out the corner you pass under the bridge just as you put the power down so it reverbs right at the best bit of the power band, brings a smile every time.


Hows the bounce at high speed? compared to mpss? and do the sidewalls feel stiff when cornering etc.. thanks.


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> See my cup2 info below , epic in the summer like glue super sticky!, diabolical in the winter on the road for me. (cant get the heat into them!)
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/293562-michelin-pilot-sport-cup-2-anyone-using-them-11.html#post4684514
> 
> ...


At high speed on the road, I cant say ive noticed any bounce, havent had them onto a strip or track to really push the numbers really high.

The sidewall stiffness seems spot on personally. Plenty of responsiveness and feedback without making the ride uncomfortable.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Any deals on 275 35 20 XL/305 30 20 XL going? At this rate I will be keeping the R888's on haha, noisy as the ****ers are, especially at 70mph!! WWWhhhhiiiiyynnneee!


----------



## whpFarmer (Oct 3, 2014)

kindai said:


> Dont quote me as gospel but I think all MPS4S are XL?


Put mine on roughly a week ago and they are XL's. Compared to stock runflats there's a lot more grip. Made a medium fast run on backroads today, plenty of bounce but it's a backroad with plenty of bounce built into it. Grip in dry and wet is good to excellent, and it's still a bit chilly here.

Don't know what they usually go for, but I paid about 1 050-1 100 £ for all four, stock width and height.


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Just a heads up it appears that Michelin are offering a £75 fuel card for 4 tyres 19" and above purchased at qualifying retailers between 3rd March 2017 and 30th April 2017. No idea on the qualifying list yet but worth looking out for if you need a set of tyres.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

borat52 said:


> Just a heads up it appears that Michelin are offering a £75 fuel card for 4 tyres 19" and above purchased at qualifying retailers between 3rd March 2017 and 30th April 2017. No idea on the qualifying list yet but worth looking out for if you need a set of tyres.


tasty! will keep eye out! thanks


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Do these tyres also help cure tramlining like the previous Michelin's did?

Will upgrade to them and ditch the DunFLOPS in the spring if so.


----------



## WSM (Oct 17, 2016)

Trev said:


> Do these tyres also help cure tramlining like the previous Michelin's did?
> 
> Will upgrade to them and ditch the DunFLOPS in the spring if so.


Interested to know this also. I've the MY17 and the Dunlops are a load of shit. I dislike them muchly!


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Camskill showing PS4S might try the square set up:
285/35/20 @ £237.85
255/40/20 @ £208.10

No fronts to pair with but larger rears (has been suggested this size is not ideal for the drivetrain in any case)
305/30/20 @ £251.00


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

WSM said:


> Interested to know this also. I've the MY17 and the Dunlops are a load of shit. I dislike them muchly!


You shouldn't be getting any tram-lining in a MY17, or at least next to none.


----------



## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

WSM said:


> Interested to know this also. I've the MY17 and the Dunlops are a load of shit. I dislike them muchly!


What dont you like, I love the Dunlops but hate the Michelin on stock wheels and runflats.


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Just to clarify on tyres:
Standard size 
Front 255/40/20
Rear 285/35/20
Fronts 0.4% larger circumference than the rear

Square set up
All 285/35/20
All tyres same circumference

Oversize MPSS that people seem to go for
Front 275/35/20
Rear 305/30/20
Fronts 1.4% larger circumference than rear

Possible other size combinations:
Front 265/35/20
Rear 305/30/20
Fronts 0.4% larger circumference than rear

POSSIBLE MATCH BUT MIGHT RUB
Front 315/35/20
Rear 275/40/20
Exactly the same


It has been said that the drivetrain likes less than a 1% difference which would put the last 2 options as the best for oversized.

MPSS were never made in 265/35 but sport 4S are. 

Anyone tried 315/35 and 275/40? they are a perfect match and are already in MPSS with sport 4S pencilled in. If they don't rub that's the match I'll go for.


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

borat52 said:


> POSSIBLE MATCH BUT MIGHT RUB
> Front 315/35/20
> Rear 275/40/20
> Exactly the same


Do you mean?:

POSSIBLE MATCH BUT MIGHT RUB
Front 275/40/20 
Rear 315/35/20
Exactly the same


----------



## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

The toyo r888r sizes are :

285/35/20
315/30/20

Fronts don't rub, and these fit standard wheel sizes.


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Evo9lution said:


> Do you mean?:
> 
> POSSIBLE MATCH BUT MIGHT RUB
> Front 275/40/20
> ...



Yes, any one tried that set up?
28.7" diameter on them vs 28" for the stock sized tyres, in theory if you want as large a tyre as possible on stock rims then this is the best match.

The question is, does this combination rub the arches anywhere due to the increase in diameter over the stock set up?

Ignore what I said about MPSS, I was looking at the wrong data. These are not available in MPSS, but should be in pilot sport 4S according the the press release.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

borat52 said:


> Just to clarify on tyres:
> Standard size
> Front 255/40/20
> Rear 285/35/20
> ...


Front 265/35/20
Rear 305/30/20

^^ I've Heard a few people say this may be better for the drivetrain over 275/35/20 305/30/20

MPSS website as below shows they have 265 35, so why havent people been using these over 275? -
265	35	R 20	99	ZR(Y)	XL | *

and the 4S doesnt come in 315/35/20.......

4S current sizes -
MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4 S -

MPSS sizes -
MICHELIN Pilot Super Sport | Tyres | MICHELIN

NOW I'm confused, ALL I wanna know IS, what's the biggest size we can have in available 4S ,on stock rims so we get the most grip, and the drive train is happy.

Arrrrgghhh!


----------



## motors (Mar 14, 2013)

heres a site so you can compare overall circumferences size for different tyres for comparison
Car Bibles : The tyre calculators


----------



## Doldy (Jul 6, 2015)

I have just had a full set of these new Michelin Ps4s fitted, what a superb tyre. Very impressed and has transformed how the car drives over the Bridgestones i was previous running, and the dunlops the car came with. 100% recommend!


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Doldy said:


> I have just had a full set of these new Michelin Ps4s fitted, what a superb tyre. Very impressed and has transformed how the car drives over the Bridgestones i was previous running, and the dunlops the car came with. 100% recommend!


How do you find them better over the bridgestones/dunlops? And what sizes did you get fitted and how much?

Also how's the grip/ride/sidewall when driving ?

thanks


----------



## Danny Danger (Jan 24, 2014)

I've been running 265/35/20 front 295/30/20 on the super sports for over a year and had no problems. I got these off a big post over on NAGTROC. The rolling % is 1.23 compared to 1.36 on a 275 front 305 rear


----------



## Doldy (Jul 6, 2015)

Chronos said:


> How do you find them better over the bridgestones/dunlops? And what sizes did you get fitted and how much?
> 
> Also how's the grip/ride/sidewall when driving ?
> 
> thanks


I found the Bridgestones to be tremendously hard ride, very solid and no give. When pushed the car would just slide before the tyre gives any flex at alll. Also Tram-Line was a massive issue on the country roads.

The PS4S have none of this, they make you feel more in contact with the road and i find i can judge what the car is doing more, if that make sense.

They were £905 from camskill, I went with the stock size tyres 285/35 and 255/40 i have work wheels on my GTR which are ever so slightly wider so they have a very small amount of side wall stretch, which i have found does not effect traction or drivability!


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Chronos said:


> Front 265/35/20
> Rear 305/30/20
> 
> ^^ I've Heard a few people say this may be better for the drivetrain over 275/35/20 305/30/20
> ...


This is what got me thinking they might appear in 315/35/20:
Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Press Release - Tyre Reviews

Given the MPSS are in that size I got a bit excited when I saw that.


----------



## whpFarmer (Oct 3, 2014)

Went out for another spin. Tramlining is gone.
Doesn't break loose on second in damp conditions, I like them a lot!


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

borat52 said:


> Just to clarify on tyres:
> Oversize MPSS that people seem to go for
> Front 275/35/20
> Rear 305/30/20
> ...





Tin said:


> The toyo r888r sizes are :
> 285/35/20
> 315/30/20
> Fronts don't rub, and these fit standard wheel sizes.





Chronos said:


> Front 265/35/20
> Rear 305/30/20
> ^^ I've Heard a few people say this may be better for the drivetrain over 275/35/20 305/30/20
> 4S current sizes -
> ...





borat52 said:


> This is what got me thinking they might appear in 315/35/20:
> Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Press Release - Tyre Reviews
> Given the MPSS are in that size I got a bit excited when I saw that.


SO... 
As of now 06.03.2017, Big boy sizes options are - and i think this is right.. feel free to chime in -

Front 265/35/20 Available now
Rear 305/30/20 Available now
0.4% so should be better on drivetrain, over 275/35 - 305/30 1.4%

OR do we wait and hope they release R888R GTR sizes in 4s tyre.
285/35/20 Available now
315/30/20 not available or even on the Michelin website

MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4 S , 315/30/20 will they release this size?..

So Do we get 265/35 - 305/30 Available now, which to be fair is a good chunky set of tyres! or WAIT and hope they bring out 315 to go with the already available 285/35 which would give the car, max road rubber grip, for stock alloys. :runaway:


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Surely the difference between 305 and 315 is relatively negligable....

Where are people ordering these and getting them fitted at?


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

tonigmr2 said:


> Surely the difference between 305 and 315 is relatively negligable....
> Where are people ordering these and getting them fitted at?


Not too much in it. But still its more rubber attaching the car to the tarmac.

current places selling 4S are -
https://www.camskill.co.uk/m63b5275...elin_Tyres_Car_Michelin_Pilot_Sport_4S_PS4S_-
Buy Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Tyres Online at Blackcircles.com
Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S » FREE DELIVERY » Oponeo.co.uk


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Chronos said:


> Not too much in it. But still its more rubber attaching the car to the tarmac.


Not necessarily Chronos, wider isn't always better or grippier, and certainly not in the wet. A wider tyre changes the shape of the contact patch with the road to be less in length and more in width.

I can understand wanting wider tyres for aesthetics, but performance wise I doubt they will be any better than stock, could even be worse.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trevgtr said:


> Not necessarily Chronos, wider isn't always better or grippier, and certainly not in the wet. A wider tyre changes the shape of the contact patch with the road to be less in length and more in width.
> I can understand wanting wider tyres for aesthetics, but performance wise I doubt they will be any better than stock, could even be worse.


Well at the moment, think am gonna pull the trigger on 4s x2 265/35/20 and x2 305/30/20 and get them fitted, Tyres Online » FREE DELIVERY » Oponeo.co.uk doing them for about £250 each delivered, unless theres a better deal to be had?



borat52 said:


> Just a heads up it appears that Michelin are offering a £75 fuel card for 4 tyres 19" and above purchased at qualifying retailers between 3rd March 2017 and 30th April 2017. No idea on the qualifying list yet but worth looking out for if you need a set of tyres.


looks like its on!
TAKE LIFE FURTHER WITH MICHELIN


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

ok x2 265/35/20 and x2 305/30/20 ordered (went for 265 over 275 as 265/305 better 0.4% on drivetrain so easier on it)  will get them fitted early next week take a few pics on how they look and post, try them out and report back. Hope I like them as much, or even more than mpss, but with less bounce as people have reported, we shall see.


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Think I'm going to join you in this size, keen to hear your thoughts once fitted.


----------



## colin41 (Apr 26, 2015)

Does the 265 have a high enough load rating for a gtr? I notice its lower than the standard 255 tyre


----------



## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

any more views and opinions on this tyre now the weather is getting a little better? anyone got any track days planned?

regretting not getting the cup2s a few weeks ago when they were under £1k.. they are now £1.2k lol.

noticed you can get the standard sizes on camskill for £891.90 right now


Qty	Make & Model	Selected Option	Unit Price (£)	Total Price (£)
Michelin Tyres / Car / Michelin Pilot Sport 4S PS4S - 285/35 R20 (104Y) XL TL	Michelin Tyres / Car / Michelin Pilot Sport 4S PS4S -
285/35 R20 (104Y) XL TL
1 Working Day(s) Dispatch if ordered before 4:00pm (Mon-Fri) Price
£237.85
*269.48 Euro (EUR)	Total
£475.70
*538.97 Euro (EUR)
Michelin Tyres / Car / Michelin Pilot Sport 4S PS4S - 255/40 R20 (101Y) XL TL	Michelin Tyres / Car / Michelin Pilot Sport 4S PS4S -
255/40 R20 (101Y) XL TL
1 Working Day(s) Dispatch if ordered before 4:00pm (Mon-Fri) Price
£208.10
*235.78 Euro (EUR)	Total
£416.20
*471.55 Euro (EUR)

If you change any quantities, please Update your Shopping Basket	Total price of goods	£891.90
*1010.52 Euro (EUR)
Shipping & Handling (P&P)
(## Select Delivery Region to
Show Correct Shipping ##)	£13.96
ORDER TOTAL	£905.86
*1026.34 Euro (EUR)


----------



## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Chronos said:


> ok x2 265/35/20 and x2 305/30/20 ordered (went for 265 over 275 as 265/305 better 0.4% on drivetrain so easier on it)  will get them fitted early next week take a few pics on how they look and post, try them out and report back. Hope I like them as much, or even more than mpss, but with less bounce as people have reported, we shall see.




Get them bedded in properly and then give us the verdict. Looking forward to hearing about these


----------



## colin41 (Apr 26, 2015)

colin41 said:


> Does the 265 have a high enough load rating for a gtr? I notice its lower than the standard 255 tyre


Anyone?


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

colin41 said:


> Anyone?


Yes it's fine, XL aka Extra Load rating, any without XL rating are no good for GTR.

Take a look chap MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4S


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4 S - Zrodená zo skuto?nej vá?ne. Pre výnimo?né zá?itky z jazdy.

Michelin showing the 4S as a track tyres as well, hmmm. anyone tried them on track yet?


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Chronos what price did you pay? That setup is £1016 from Camskills


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Camskill now appear to be price fixing with TyreLeader, shame that.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

charles charlie said:


> Chronos what price did you pay? That setup is £1016 from Camskills


Yeah prices fluctuating daily everywhere. But am reasonably happy with what I paid from OPONEO.CO.UK

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S 305/30 R20 103 Y XL, ZR 
Price per pc. incl.VAT: £263.00 Quantity: 2 : 
Total price (with VAT): £526.00

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S 265/35 R20 99 Y XL, ZR 
Price per pc. incl.VAT: £244.00 Quantity: 2 : 
Total price (with VAT): £488.00

Payment : £1,014.00


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

How many miles to bed in the tyres, do we reckon folks?


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> How many miles to bed in the tyres, do we reckon folks?


I did 20 miles of slow and steady, then went hell for leather, and found they kept getting better for the next 200 or so.


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Depends on how they're driven Chronos ...


----------



## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

Chronos said:


> How many miles to bed in the tyres, do we reckon folks?


I tend to do around 300-500 motorway miles, then trackday


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Manufacturers recommend 100-200 miles medium speed and dry road surface.

Obviously if you're commuting in traffic and in the wet that will increase the mileage required.


----------



## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

anyone got any track days planned with these tyres yet?


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

NoPk11 said:


> anyone got any track days planned with these tyres yet?


I'm off to a sprint course Monday if that counts


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> I'm off to a sprint course Monday if that counts


closest thing anyones done this early, into GTR owners having them on the car, so keep us posted on how they perform pls, overheat? bounce..grip...


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

What PSi's you trying in 4S folks? 

Currently I've got 32psi front and 33psi rear in my 4S ; 265/305.. which is comfortable/soft in comfort, and hardens up well in race. Not pushed the car yet, but had a few mild boosts in wet and dry, its its been easily mpss grippy so far, I've noticed steering feel, feels more responsive than mpss to me as well, maybe due to stiffer side wall. Am on 120miles road miles on them.


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

I've asked before, I'll ask again.

Do these new Michelin's tramline?

The older models don't, but people say that the sidewall is stiffer which is like the Dunlops, which is why they tramline badly.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trev said:


> I've asked before, I'll ask again.
> 
> Do these new Michelin's tramline?
> The older models don't, but people say that the sidewall is stiffer which is like the Dunlops, which is why they tramline badly.


Can't say i've noticed any tramlining yet, with 120miles road miles on them, thru towns, duals and motorway.


----------



## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Chronos said:


> Can't say i've noticed any tramlining yet, with 120miles road miles on them, thru towns, duals and motorway.


Thank you


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> closest thing anyones done this early, into GTR owners having them on the car, so keep us posted on how they perform pls, overheat? bounce..grip...


Well it was absolutely pissing it down all day, but I was highly impressed, was able to sling it around quite comfortably knowing that when applying a correction it was going to hook up, well that was until I ended up sliding sideways across the field when doing a cool down run 

Was too wet to know if they overheat, and can't say I noticed any bounce.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> Well it was absolutely pissing it down all day, but I was highly impressed, was able to sling it around quite comfortably knowing that when applying a correction it was going to hook up, well that was until I ended up sliding sideways across the field when doing a cool down run
> 
> Was too wet to know if they overheat, and can't say I noticed any bounce.


Thanks for this info.

What cold psi are you running, front and back?


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> Thanks for this info.
> 
> What cold psi are you running, front and back?


 32 all around.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

OK done 300 miles with 265/35/20 305/30/20 4S, and basic preliminary report is, and I'm going to be honest about my experience so far..

It feels like I have MPSS on basically, the wet and dry grip is real good and similar, the sidewall feels a bit stiffer than MPSS when maneuvering slow/fast, BUT I'm getting bounce at high speed 60mph+ with these like mpss. 0 - 60 is fine.

Tried psi cold, 33front 33rear and found them bouncey even in race. So have now just tried cold 35front 35 rear , and this helps a lot and is a lot more manageable

spoke to papa smurf and He said they are bouncy and advised me to try 34front/35rear. perhaps he will chime in, with his experience with them to later.. (I just chucked 35/35 in today to see how different going from 33/33 would be)

On the flip side, they make your ride very comfy in comfort, and comfy in N as well. and the rim protection on the front and rear is real good, see pictures below.

I will do a load more miles, and chop some things about and see how things get on.


front rim protection / rear rim protection

















tyre


----------



## BigBen (Aug 18, 2012)

Just ordered a set for fitting tomorrow. Will do some miles and report back. From factory run flats.


----------



## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Chronos said:


> OK done 300 miles with 265/35/20 305/30/20 4S, and basic preliminary report is, and I'm going to be honest about my experience so far..
> 
> It feels like I have MPSS on basically, the wet and dry grip is real good and similar, the sidewall feels a bit stiffer than MPSS when maneuvering slow/fast, BUT I'm getting bounce at high speed 60mph+ with these like mpss. 0 - 60 is fine.
> 
> ...



Still bouncy?
No good for me as I use a lot of B roads.
Thought these were going to be my next tyres but think I will stick to some run flats that hopefully don't tram line this time around


----------



## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

I was really hoping that these new ones would be without the bouncyness at higher speeds, sounds like that effect is still there sadly. I really like my MPSS but I think they're let down by this.


----------



## Danny Danger (Jan 24, 2014)

I was going to buy a set but seen as my current mpss have 5mm on I'm holding off. I didnt notice the magical difference between the run flats and the michelins as some claimed. I think the runflats had better warm weather grip


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

TREG said:


> Still bouncy?
> No good for me as I use a lot of B roads.
> Thought these were going to be my next tyres but think I will stick to some run flats that hopefully don't tram line this time around


ok feedback update I am on 350+ miles on them now, and yes they are just as bouncy as mpss, maybe more so.  (just being honest) I've cranked my PSI's up to 35front 35rear, and as said before, this is helping a lot at high speed compared to 33psi, I may try 36 upwards as well, just to see what it's like.( I will report back) Remember with MPSS we used to have PSI around 33F 34R.

TREG tbh with 35/35 psi and R mode, they are good on the B roads/motorway upto 60mph, and even manageable at high speed 60mph+, however they don't feel half as planted, at high speed 60mph+ as the R888 I had on before. R888 don't bounce, but arn't half as good as 4S in heavy rain/wet conditions, and 4s are a lot comfier ride on the road, than R888 and slightly comfier/similar to MPSS, so it depends on your needs.

Now tonight it was lashing down rain on the way home, and I tried some controlled boosts on the motorway, and the wet grip is superb with great traction! personally for me better than MPSS. Also no aquaplaning either and no tramlining. I'm still to test in bone dry and will report back.

Why they have made them still bouncy like MPSS I don't know, maybe its the compound? Why would a performance car want bouncy tyres? I feel they will be a great all year round road tyre like MPSS, Superb wet traction and grip, comfy ride, No tramlining, No aquaplaning, hard wearing, just get the PSI's cranked up!!



billythefish said:


> I was really hoping that these new ones would be without the bouncyness at higher speeds, sounds like that effect is still there sadly. I really like my MPSS but I think they're let down by this.


 +1 I was hoping this too, as said I think they have improved the wet grip, am yet to test in the dry properly, I will this week.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Chronos said:


> ok feedback update I am on 350+ miles on them now, and yes they are just as bouncy as mpss, maybe more so.  (just being honest) I've cranked my PSI's up to 35front 35rear, and as said before, this is helping a lot at high speed compared to 33psi, I may try 36 upwards as well, just to see what it's like.( I will report back) Remember with MPSS we used to have PSI around 33F 34R.
> 
> TREG tbh with 35/35 psi and R mode, they are good on the B roads/motorway upto 60mph, and even manageable at high speed 60mph+, however they don't feel half as planted, at high speed 60mph+ as the R888 I had on before. R888 don't bounce, but arn't half as good as 4S in heavy rain/wet conditions, and 4s are a lot comfier ride on the road, than R888 and slightly comfier/similar to MPSS, so it depends on your needs.
> 
> ...




A great review and top man for being honest.
For me I would sooner a firmer ride on run flats so will stick with those as I'm sure they tram line a lot less now?


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## whpFarmer (Oct 3, 2014)

I've gone 270 km/h on the highway since I fitted the tires, no bounce at all. 
Planted as led shoes. B-roads below 200, some bounce, but stock tires was a lot bouncier.

Maybe it's the different tire width Cronos is running that makes them bouncy for him?
I run stock setup.

Of course all is relative, but I feel confident with these tires at high speeds as well.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

whpFarmer said:


> I've gone 270 km/h on the highway since I fitted the tires, no bounce at all.
> Planted as led shoes. B-roads below 200, some bounce, but stock tires was a lot bouncier.
> Maybe it's the different tire width Cronos is running that makes them bouncy for him?
> I run stock setup.
> Of course all is relative, but I feel confident with these tires at high speeds as well.


Now that is interesting, what tyres and sizes did you have on before, and what 4S sizes have you on now, and what PSI front and rear?

I've got 265/35/20 front and 305/30/20 rear michelin Pilot Sport 4S with 35psi front and rear.. Testing... As I tried 33 front 34 rear and it was even more bouncy..My Car is CBA, with stock shocks with uprated springs (acspeedtech) and front+Rear anti roll bars..

I had R888 on before which don't bounce at all, and the car was super planted at high speed, The car had mpss on before the R888 275/35 + 305/30 and its was fine with the usual mpss high speed bounce.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Chronos, remember it's just opinions not science, one man's bounce will be another man's rock steady.

Lol at your sig!!


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trevgtr said:


> Chronos, remember it's just opinions not science, one man's bounce will be another man's rock steady.
> Lol at your sig!!


haha yeah couldnt resist, will have it on for a bit 

Believe me you can feel the bounce at high speed, I wanna know what His secret is, or maybe I need to change the rears for smaller stock sizes... hmmm interesting stuff..... I'd like to hear what litchfields say about them as they had a set to trial a while ago, and papa smurf as i think he's tried them too.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Yeah I get understand the bounce, all I meant was that he may judge it completely different to you, what feels like bounce to you may feel rock steady to him.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

UPDATE: my own personal 4S experience 

Ok it was bone dry yesterday and warm-hot until late afternoon, took the R35 out with the 4S, on 35psi cold all round.

took the car for a spin over some mountainous, tight roads regions then into dual carriage ways etc, and when putting my foot down in 2nd/3rd/4th was getting the traction light on, with the car holding back power then going , I used to get this a little with MPSS as well, but it was kinda acceptable as generally they would grip, but traction coming on, seems a lot more with 4S, in these dry warm-hot conditions.

PLUS the bouncyness makes hard to tight cornering a bit unpredictable, after having the R888 before 4S it's quite annoying, and makes you a lot slower/careful with this type of driving. As sometimes the car bounces, when you're not expecting it.

I find I'm having to drive everywhere in race, to try and minimize bounce.

For me, 4S tyres seem to have excellent wet grip (Which will be great for winter), and ok nothing to write home about dry grip. Dry grip not as good as mpss for me, but wet grip better than mpss, which about sums them up for me.

Anyhow, I'm in 2 minds and verging on pulling the trigger, on getting and fitting some R888R for summer. Front 285/35R20 Rear 315/30R20, and maybe keeping the 4S for winter.

Am tempted to drive up to acspeedtech, and let them try the car with the 4S on, see what they make of them.

thoughts?

picture from the day -


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

What stage are you at? Granted im only stock but I can floor it in first and it doesnt cause any issues with traction.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> What stage are you at? Granted im only stock but I can floor it in first and it doesnt cause any issues with traction.


@ stage 4.25,

it what conditions are you flooring it? Have you tried on a hot, bone dry day..


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> @ stage 4.25,
> 
> it what conditions are you flooring it? Have you tried on a hot, bone dry day..


I've tried in in damp through all conditions and even today, have absolutely ragged the car today in the dry and they have just hooked up every time no issues.

Several traffic light grand prix moments as well, and just soon as green plant my foot to the floor and im halfway down the road before the other cars have even started moving.

Just wondering, have you oversized your tyres? Because those of us who have matching tyres to our alloys are having no issues, but those who seem to be having issues have oversized.

Im also running 32psi all around as well.


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Chronos, which VDC mode are you driving in?

Now I could be completely wrong here but driving in Race suspension mode is probably unlikely to reduce the bounce in the tyres. In fact, it is likely to increase it and you will also have less grip on wet or undulating roads as well.

With a softer suspension setting, the suspension componentry will have more give and will absorb more of the vertical movements (and will allow the car to squat more under power, aiding traction). If you stiffen the suspension, the tyre itself has to absorb a higher percentage of the suspension travel - for example, in F1; where the tyre temperature affects the ride height and the tyre is one of the biggest factors in "suspension travel". Think about what happens if you push two rubber balls together (say at 50N) against what happens if you push a brick and a rubber ball together with the same force ...

When you think about suspension componentry, it has fluid, springs and maybe even (electrically modulated) filings, all designed to absorb bumps etc. and aid control as quickly as possible. A tyre is made of rubber (with some other compounds of course) and rubber is inherently "bouncy". It is also pneumatic so this will induce a degree of bounce as well. By putting a higher amount of suspension control into the tyre, you're more likely to get a "bouncy feel" from the tyres IMO. With the suspension in Comfort, more of the feel of bounce will be from the damping itself; but this is what the suspension is designed to do - on that note, have you checked to see if your suspension is fine or whether it may need a refresh?

Lastly, I do wonder whether running your tyres at 35-36psi with the intention of stiffening the sidewall / reducing bouncy may actually be compromising grip? The sidewall on the MPSS (assuming MPS4S are similar) is much softer than RFs or 888s so to really stiffen them up appropriately you'd need to overfill them to dangerous levels. If you run MPSS at 33psi cold at Silverstone on a dry day (not even a hot day), you'll very quickly have them at 40psi and you'll notice a huge amount of additional understeer as the tyres lose grip. Starting at 36psi will mean that you will reach this point much sooner and may well be around 39psi on the road; which may be beyond the point of maximum effective grip of the tyres.

Feel is subjective but by trying to reduce the feel of bounce you may be affecting the car's ultimate handling capabilities.

If I am completely wrong guys, happy for someone to jump in and correct me.


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Not saying your right or wrong but since putting mpss on mine i think its like a boat in comfort mode - feels a lot better in N or R also found 35psi the sweet spot for the road


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Summed it up pretty well I think Evo, plus wider tyres will likely reduce road going abilities, manufacturers usually get it right on performance cars, 285 is plenty in width, a wider shorter contact patch will have less straight line traction.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> I've tried in in damp through all conditions and even today, have absolutely ragged the car today in the dry and they have just hooked up every time no issues.
> Several traffic light grand prix moments as well, and just soon as green plant my foot to the floor and im halfway down the road before the other cars have even started moving.
> Just wondering, have you oversized your tyres? Because those of us who have matching tyres to our alloys are having no issues, but those who seem to be having issues have oversized.
> Im also running 32psi all around as well.


Hmmm seems to be going ok for you, i've got 35psi all round at the moment to try and counter the bounce. Maybe the 305 rears are too much? I don't know, as I was going off MPSS staggered sizes, as I liked that setup on mpss, as it kept the tail in check and seems to work for mpss. thanks. Maybe I should pop down so you can try the car, and see how it feels compared to your setup.



Evo9lution said:


> Chronos, which VDC mode are you driving in?
> Now I could be completely wrong here but driving in Race suspension mode is probably unlikely to reduce the bounce in the tyres. In fact, it is likely to increase it and you will also have less grip on wet or undulating roads as well.
> With a softer suspension setting, the suspension componentry will have more give and will absorb more of the vertical movements (and will allow the car to squat more under power, aiding traction). If you stiffen the suspension, the tyre itself has to absorb a higher percentage of the suspension travel - for example, in F1; where the tyre temperature affects the ride height and the tyre is one of the biggest factors in "suspension travel". Think about what happens if you push two rubber balls together (say at 50N) against what happens if you push a brick and a rubber ball together with the same force ...
> When you think about suspension componentry, it has fluid, springs and maybe even (electrically modulated) filings, all designed to absorb bumps etc. and aid control as quickly as possible. A tyre is made of rubber (with some other compounds of course) and rubber is inherently "bouncy". It is also pneumatic so this will induce a degree of bounce as well. By putting a higher amount of suspension control into the tyre, you're more likely to get a "bouncy feel" from the tyres IMO. With the suspension in Comfort, more of the feel of bounce will be from the damping itself; but this is what the suspension is designed to do - on that note, have you checked to see if your suspension is fine or whether it may need a refresh?
> ...


I tried the car in 32psi front 33 rear to start with, and in normal suspension mode.. it was very bouncy, has to put it in race and this helped a bit. So pumped up to 34/35 then 35/35 and this seems to help with the bounce even more, but as you said maybe because the psi's are so high, and on hot days its affecting the dry weather grip.

I spoke to john (papa smurf) the other day and He advised 4S "They are very bouncy so you should run 34 front 35 rear cold" which I did as above and it helped.

My suspension is CBA, with Acspeedtech uprated springs and front and rear anti roll bars, and the car has been geo tuned on their rig, when I had the car on R888 before the 4S about a month ago, it was very planted no bounce and handled really well.

When putting the car in comfort with 4s on, the car just becomes even more bouncy and even wallows, but it's great on the road for comfort and bumps! haha . So maybe in winter they would be ok, as the temps are right down, So could maintain grip with the psi's not spiking... hmmm. thanks.




terry lloyd said:


> Not saying your right or wrong but since putting mpss on mine i think its like a boat in comfort mode - feels a lot better in N or R also found 35psi the sweet spot for the road


Yup same with 4S



Trevgtr said:


> Summed it up pretty well I think Evo, plus wider tyres will likely reduce road going abilities, manufacturers usually get it right on performance cars, 285 is plenty in width, a wider shorter contact patch will have less straight line traction.


No point me having wider tyres for corner grip, when the cars bouncing round the corner! haha :rotz:


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

Cup2 in 265/305 setup and on Sat I had full grip with no traction issues in 1/2/3 etc (stage 4.25).

Ive about killed the fronts so Ill be going to Vred Ultrac Vorti road tyres in 265/305 shortly and will report back findings. They have a very stiff sidewall from my days with Supras.

Will then eventually be going for R888Rs (285/315) on my track wheels to replace the Cup2s


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> Hmmm seems to be going ok for you, i've got 35psi all round at the moment to try and counter the bounce. Maybe the 305 rears are too much? I don't know, as I was going off MPSS staggered sizes, as I liked that setup on mpss, as it kept the tail in check and seems to work for mpss. thanks. Maybe I should pop down so you can try the car, and see how it feels compared to your setup.



I just wonder if the changes they made to the tyre construction mean the slight deformation of putting oversized tyres on is causing your issues.

By all means pop down if you want me to compare around some roads I know well, can only give you my opinion and feedback and that of people who I know have the same tyres.

I also know someone who has the K1 Ferrari Spec tyres on his rears found they took a lot more temperature to get them to switch on where his normal spec fronts were there right away.


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## dominic1 (Feb 16, 2012)

imm running 345 on the back on 285 on the front ........ at the moment it feels great but i can not compare because it came with these tyres all ready fitted


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

I'm very interested in getting your feedback on these Dominic as this is the setup I have....


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

So I'm really scratching my head now with what tyre to get, and I've kind of been put off oversized. Chronos do they tramline, that's the thing that annoys me most about the Dunlops.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

What type of tyres and what size wheels?



dominic1 said:


> imm running 345 on the back on 285 on the front ........ at the moment it feels great but i can not compare because it came with these tyres all ready fitted


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## dominic1 (Feb 16, 2012)

i have bought a litchfield lm20 , it has come with volk te37 wheels and the aforementioned tyres. imm sure that they would tell you the size if you gave them a shout, feels great but again i have only done 500 miles and not had it on a track yet.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

You have the perfect set up with the LM20 with the 285/345 combo with Michelin Cup2's. 

This set up is as close to manufacturer rolling circumferences as you can get and the only other way to get closer is to run a square set up which is contrary to what the GT-R was designed for.



dominic1 said:


> i have bought a litchfield lm20 , it has come with volk te37 wheels and the aforementioned tyres. imm sure that they would tell you the size if you gave them a shout, feels great but again i have only done 500 miles and not had it on a track yet.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

tonigmr2 said:


> So I'm really scratching my head now with what tyre to get, and I've kind of been put off oversized. Chronos do they tramline, that's the thing that annoys me most about the Dunlops.


No they don't tramline, but for me 4S feel very bouncey, even with 34F 35 R in. they are super comfy tho if you like a nice comfy car ride.

conclusion : Wet grip superb better than mpss for me, dry grip not as good as mpss, and more bouncy than mpss for me.

Maybe coming from R888 to 4s hasnt helped in my case, as R888 don't bounce, but i did have mpss on before R888 and i don't remember them being this bouncy.

So in the meantime I've ordered a set of R888R which are hopefully getting delivered today, the 4S are coming off R888r going on, and i will use the 4S for winter.

Maybe papasmurf can chime in , on his knowledge about 4S so far??....


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

I am a MPSS and Toyo R888R man. Just be careful with the Toyo's once they go below 3mm in lying water (they only start with 5mm). 

I have heard a couple of reports from Germany that the 4S's are actually more bouncy than the MPSS even though Michelin claim that they have a stronger sidewall. Still undecided if Cup2's are the ideal compromise but Iain Litchfield is using the 285/345 set up on the LM20's and he must know. Perhaps it is the wider tyre in combination with the larger wheels that create the better feel?

Either way, the 285/345 set up is almost spot on for identical rolling circumferences which are becoming more important with the later cars


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## colin41 (Apr 26, 2015)

from reading this i think ill stay away from the 4S. so the question is cup2 or R888r?


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

colin41 said:


> from reading this i think ill stay away from the 4S. so the question is cup2 or R888r?


Depends on what you are going to use your GT-R for...


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## colin41 (Apr 26, 2015)

nurburgringgtr said:


> Depends on what you are going to use your GT-R for...


Mostly dry roads and some track. Possible wet road use but unlikely.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

The R888R's are cheaper through the GTROC shop than the Cup2's will be. They also whine a bit like you have a wheel bearing going, but they are always my summer choice. For all round capability the Cup2's are great both wet and dry but lack the strength of sidewall and the extreme dry weather grip the Toyo's give.


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

So as promised a little feedback on the Vreds I have just fitted as my road tyres.

So far really impressed, grip in the dry is great (not cup2 level) no TC light on dry roads in stage 4.25 with spirited driving. Dont tramline which is a big improvement over the Cup2s as they were horrific.

Not really done any high speed runs to test of they bounce like others have reported.

The best bit is they are quiet, the Cup2s drone on the road and after a while it gets irritating. With the Vreds on it was like id stepped out of my GTR and into my merc the difference was that noticeable.


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## billythefish (Jul 2, 2015)

T2 MSW said:


> So as promised a little feedback on the Vreds I have just fitted as my road tyres.
> 
> So far really impressed, grip in the dry is great (not cup2 level) no TC light on dry roads in stage 4.25 with spirited driving. Dont tramline which is a big improvement over the Cup2s as they were horrific.
> 
> ...


Do they come in the 285/345 sizes do you know?


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## T2 MSW (Feb 1, 2017)

billythefish said:


> Do they come in the 285/345 sizes do you know?



They do a 285 that is suitable for the front but I think the widest rear is a 305


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## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

T2 MSW said:


> So as promised a little feedback on the Vreds I have just fitted as my road tyres.
> 
> So far really impressed, grip in the dry is great (not cup2 level) no TC light on dry roads in stage 4.25 with spirited driving. Dont tramline which is a big improvement over the Cup2s as they were horrific.
> 
> ...


cup 2s dont tram line??


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Well I feel the 4S I put on the car Saturday morning has transformed the car. Tramlining gone, hard bumps gone. Very quiet and comfortable. Haven't driven in the wet yet, but these are amazing compared to the Dunlops.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

tonigmr2 said:


> Well I feel the 4S I put on the car Saturday morning has transformed the car. Tramlining gone, hard bumps gone. Very quiet and comfortable. Haven't driven in the wet yet, but these are amazing compared to the Dunlops.


See told ya. No tramlining , and comfortable. They are great in the wet as well. Will be interesting to see if you find them bouncy, what psi's have you got in them? and what size/spec did you get?

I've put some new R888R on for summer, and have shelved the 4S for now. 

pic below so people can see how the x2 tyre's compare/look.

Plan is to use 4S or MPSS, or even some type of winter tyre come late autumn -winter, and probably R888R rest of the year. Still bits of testing to do, but will see how it goes.


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## Duratec7s (Mar 3, 2017)

What is the wear like on R888 compared to michelins?
888 soft in comparison i guess


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Duratec7s said:


> What is the wear like on R888 compared to michelins?
> 888 soft in comparison i guess


The 888Rs wear much more quickly


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

265 front and 305 rear. I can feel a little bounce. I am actually at 32 psi ATM front and 33 rear, and in comfort they are very, well, comfy.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

tonigmr2 said:


> 265 front and 305 rear. I can feel a little bounce. I am actually at 32 psi ATM front and 33 rear, and in comfort they are very, well, comfy.


Yeah in comfort the car wallows its that comfy haha, the bounce isn't real noticeable until you get to higher speeds, 60mph+ like mpss but even more.
Yeah it all depends on your needs, If I was just using the car for pottering around, and/or maybe just as a weekend toy, and wanted all round grip and comfort and long tread life, they would be perfect. But if you do a lot of fast motorway/track work, then they aint gonna be ideal, due to the unpredictable bounce.


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## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

Picked my car up from ACSpeedtech on Saturday and am still in restricted running-in mode I haven't pushed it at all but on the motorway I haven't found the 4S to be overly bouncy.

I generally run in Comfort mode and my car is fitted with a KW Sleeve kit and is lowered a tad (about15mm). Mine def doesn't wallow (I might, but the car doesn't). I was running MPSS before and even at the CAT Driver day training I found them OK.

Having said that, I am thinking of trying RF or R888, if I can persuade myself to change before worn out, or buy a 2nd set of wheels.

David


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## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

Tinyflier said:


> Picked my car up from ACSpeedtech on Saturday and am still in restricted running-in mode I haven't pushed it at all but on the motorway I haven't found the 4S to be overly bouncy.
> 
> I generally run in Comfort mode and my car is fitted with a KW Sleeve kit and is lowered a tad (about15mm). Mine def doesn't wallow (I might, but the car doesn't). I was running MPSS before and even at the CAT Driver day training I found them OK.
> 
> ...


In many ways it depends on what you are used to. My car was on MPSS when I bought her so I didn't really know anything different. Now that she has been run on 888Rs for a period of time, I do notice the difference in sidewall stiffness ...

Saying that, she still typically runs on the MPSS on the road. I generally only change if I will be doing track or autobahn driving (in the dry; in the wet I'd be on MPSS; or 4Ss)!


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

what are peoples thoughts on mixing the mps4 with the mpss? I need some new fronts so was thinking of putting the mps4 on there...


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Simonh said:


> what are peoples thoughts on mixing the mps4 with the mpss? I need some new fronts so was thinking of putting the mps4 on there...


Never ever mix two kinds of tyre on a GT-R. Whether it is front or rear axle, you should always have the same all round.

The difference between the MPSS and the 4S is quite marked and it would create an imbalance.


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

I thought that would be the case.


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

Simonh said:


> what are peoples thoughts on mixing the mps4 with the mpss? I need some new fronts so was thinking of putting the mps4 on there...


I respect Nurburg's text book view, but I actually think in reality you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.


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## james_barker (Nov 17, 2016)

Trevgtr said:


> I respect Nurburg's text book view, but I actually think in reality you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference.


Agree. They are close enough that I would run them on the fronts fine. Although, I had to replace one of my mpss on the front recently and my local tyre guy tried to say he thought it was close enough to mp4s he thought it would be OK to run 3 and 1. Needless to say I took my business elsewhere as that was terrible advice.. 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

well I ordered MPSS in the end anyway.


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## WSM (Oct 17, 2016)

What sizes are people going for? MY17 GTR -- 5K miles in and advised I need new tyres (inside wall tread is below legal limit, apparently -- according to Nissan)


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## DocT (Dec 17, 2014)

My current MPSS are 275/35/20 front and 305/30/20 rear. I'm going to need some new tyres in the near future and was considering the same size 4S.

Could someone recommend a place in Cheshire, Midlands or around Bristo/South Wales for supplying and fitting?


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## WSM (Oct 17, 2016)

DocT said:


> My current MPSS are 275/35/20 front and 305/30/20 rear. I'm going to need some new tyres in the near future and was considering the same size 4S.
> 
> Could someone recommend a place in Cheshire, Midlands or around Bristo/South Wales for supplying and fitting?


A bit bigger than OEM - any stretch or all good? why going bigger? noticeable difference?


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

WSM said:


> A bit bigger than OEM - any stretch or all good? why going bigger? noticeable difference?


One question to ask is why your OEM Dunlop's are worn so badly after only 5,000 miles. The inside edge shouldn't have done that on a new MY17.

If the car has been tracked or abused then accept it otherwise ask the question.

If they are just worn out, either replace with the OEM Dunlop's runflats or the Michelin Pilot 4S's in the 275 and 305 set up but make sure they are N0 and N1 XL. They fit perfectly onto the OEM rims and will give you a quieter and less tramliney ride. Also better in the wet than the Dunlop's but they are not runflats.


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## DocT (Dec 17, 2014)

WSM said:


> A bit bigger than OEM - any stretch or all good? why going bigger? noticeable difference?


I have wider aftermarket Rays wheels so the slightly wider size will be a better fit. My MPSS were the above sizes and had no apparent issues.


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## HellsSalesman (Apr 12, 2017)

what would be recommended on stock wheels? also 275 40? or 35? and 305 35? or 30?


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## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

WSM said:


> What sizes are people going for? MY17 GTR -- 5K miles in and advised I need new tyres (inside wall tread is below legal limit, apparently -- according to Nissan)


Did they give you a quote for a new set of tyres, I was quoted 2.5k haha.

You should get around 8k miles of hard fast road driving from a set of stock Dunlops, slightly more from stock Bridgestones.

The inside edges do wear, but as long as they are not showing chords thay are fine. Just check them every other day, the inner edge rubber changes colour about 1k miles before the chords show. They have loads of good life in them even when they're smooth.

I bet your fronts are only half worn, probably have 5mm or even 6mm of tread remaining in the centre 3/4 ot the tyre (do you have a depth gauge?) and the rears probably around 4mm.


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## stokegtrlad (Apr 30, 2017)

Going order a set of these for my new advan gt wheels I have coming been told by Litchfield get 265 fronts and 305 rears the wheels are 9.5 front 11 back the same as stock widths I believe do these sound the right right sizes get and what exact spec should I get I.e n0 n1 ECT 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

really good tyre, had them fitted about 3months back now via Kaizer. 

reduction in road noise etc from stock.

good tyres. 

ordered a set (and fitted) to the R34, again big improvement.


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## WSM (Oct 17, 2016)

nurburgringgtr said:


> One question to ask is why your OEM Dunlop's are worn so badly after only 5,000 miles. The inside edge shouldn't have done that on a new MY17.
> 
> If the car has been tracked or abused then accept it otherwise ask the question.
> 
> If they are just worn out, either replace with the OEM Dunlop's runflats or the Michelin Pilot 4S's in the 275 and 305 set up but make sure they are N0 and N1 XL. They fit perfectly onto the OEM rims and will give you a quieter and less tramliney ride. Also better in the wet than the Dunlop's but they are not runflats.


This was the info from Nissan HPC directly -- don't worry. I am going to check it today from a 'real' tyre place


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

HellsSalesman said:


> what would be recommended on stock wheels? also 275 40? or 35? and 305 35? or 30?


I went from 305/275 back to stock sizes recently and the amount of grumbling from the diffs has reduced significantly. I wouldn't recommend moving too far from stock ratio's myself purely because of this.


----------



## danielhoworth (Feb 6, 2014)

Quite a few people opt for the 275 fronts / 305 rears set up (on stock wheels) having a read through this thread. 

This could be a silly question, but do the people who have switched to this set up from the factory sizing feel that there's a definite benefit of doing so? Or is it just simply a case of wider = more grip? 

The reports of people stating their drivetrain can actually be heard under strain makes me a little dubious to switch!


----------



## stokegtrlad (Apr 30, 2017)

danielhoworth said:


> Quite a few people opt for the 275 fronts / 305 rears set up (on stock wheels) having a read through this thread.
> 
> This could be a silly question, but do the people who have switched to this set up from the factory sizing feel that there's a definite benefit of doing so? Or is it just simply a case of wider = more grip?
> 
> The reports of people stating their drivetrain can actually be heard under strain makes me a little dubious to switch!


I'm feeling the same now lol.. Litchfield recommend 265 fronts 305 backs to me when I asked them 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


----------



## dominic1 (Feb 16, 2012)

DocT said:


> I have wider aftermarket Rays wheels so the slightly wider size will be a better fit. My MPSS were the above sizes and had no apparent issues.




im running rays , but i have 345 on the back and 285 on the front


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

danielhoworth said:


> Quite a few people opt for the 275 fronts / 305 rears set up (on stock wheels) having a read through this thread.
> 
> This could be a silly question, but do the people who have switched to this set up from the factory sizing feel that there's a definite benefit of doing so? Or is it just simply a case of wider = more grip?
> 
> The reports of people stating their drivetrain can actually be heard under strain makes me a little dubious to switch!


I personally cannot tell any difference in grip between the sizes, I did hear the wheels skipping on lock with the 305/275 combo that does not occur with stock combination.

Another nail in the coffin on the big sizes for me was the speedo reads 2.5% faster than is actually real due to the reduced circumference.


----------



## HellsSalesman (Apr 12, 2017)

borat52 said:


> HellsSalesman said:
> 
> 
> > what would be recommended on stock wheels? also 275 40? or 35? and 305 35? or 30?
> ...


so you run Michelin's on stock sizes? I thought that this would look too stretched - no sidewall protection?


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

HellsSalesman said:


> so you run Michelin's on stock sizes? I thought that this would look too stretched - no sidewall protection?


Not a problem as far as I can tell, car is at Litchfield being serviced at the moment but will post a picture back here in due course.


----------



## Supra_Sanj (Nov 16, 2012)

Guys,
I am looking at getting some 4s's, 265/305 combination.

In terms of part numbers, I can't find any reference to N0 or N1, even on the Michelin site.

Yes the old MPSS had N0/N1 in the part number, but the 4S just come up as XL.

Any thoughts?

Thanks


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

On the new Michelin 4S tyres, there isn't a N0 and N1 just XL. The size of the new Michelin 4S should be 265/35R20 XL front and 301/30R20 XL rear




Supra_Sanj said:


> Guys,
> I am looking at getting some 4s's, 265/305 combination.
> 
> In terms of part numbers, I can't find any reference to N0 or N1, even on the Michelin site.
> ...


----------



## Supra_Sanj (Nov 16, 2012)

nurburgringgtr said:


> On the new Michelin 4S tyres, there isn't a N0 and N1 just XL. The size of the new Michelin 4S should be 265/35R20 XL front and 301/30R20 XL rear




Thanks for clearing that up, assume you mean 305/30R20 XL


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Supra_Sanj said:


> Thanks for clearing that up, assume you mean 305/30R20 XL


Typo, yes 305


----------



## sparky_7999 (Apr 1, 2017)

tonigmr2 said:


> Well I feel the 4S I put on the car Saturday morning has transformed the car. Tramlining gone, hard bumps gone. Very quiet and comfortable. Haven't driven in the wet yet, but these are amazing compared to the Dunlops.


Well that's just confirmed what tyres I'm going for when they need replacing soon. Get really bad tram lining and horrible road noise/bumps with the dunlops. 

Might be because they are run flats??? Or is it cos they are crappy dunlops?


----------



## WarrenA (Jun 2, 2016)

Just ordered a set too 265/305 as the wife just came home with a bolt through the run flat thanks love!!


----------



## stokegtrlad (Apr 30, 2017)

WarrenA said:


> Just ordered a set too 265/305 as the wife just came home with a bolt through the run flat thanks love!!


Just ordered a set in 265 / 305 aswell got wait a week for the rears though not a problem really as my new wheels don't get here till next week .. I'm like a kid waiting for Xmas nothing better than getting new parts lol 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


----------



## WarrenA (Jun 2, 2016)

whoops double post


----------



## WarrenA (Jun 2, 2016)

All fitted today I went with 34 in the rear and 33 in the front a so much better ride over the Dunlop’s


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

So much better you had to say it twice 

Seriously though, it's only better if the driver likes a softer ride, and the tramlining issue depends on the MY of the car. If anyone drives a newer MY car and thinks it tramlines, you need to try an 09/10


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Trevgtr said:


> So much better you had to say it twice
> 
> Seriously though, it's only better if the driver likes a softer ride, and the tramlining issue depends on the MY of the car. If anyone drives a newer MY car and thinks it tramlines, you need to try an 09/10


I've had R888R on now for a few months, and they are nice and solid on the road, super grip and minimal bounce. The 4S compared felt like bouncey castles to me, maybe it was just me.. hmmmm. Thing is I'm gonna need some tyres come winter, as I can't leave the semi slicks on, so do I find some MPSS of which I found slightly less bouncy as 4s, or just bite the bullet and put 4S back on for winter, as the wet grip really was superb! I can handle a bit of bounce for a few months over winter, for the benefit of the poor weather grip. Or another choice is put some proper winter tyres on, but a few people don't recommend that.. choices choices...


----------



## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

WarrenA said:


> All fitted today I went with 34 in the rear and 33 in the front a so much better ride over the Dunlop’s


told you 

see you saturday for meet up:smokin:


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

sparky_7999 said:


> Well that's just confirmed what tyres I'm going for when they need replacing soon. Get really bad tram lining and horrible road noise/bumps with the dunlops.
> 
> Might be because they are run flats??? Or is it cos they are crappy dunlops?


 Stiff tyre walls I assume. The 4S are more squirmy at higher speed but I'm happy with the trade off.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

tonigmr2 said:


> Stiff tyre walls I assume. The 4S are more squirmy at higher speed but I'm happy with the trade off.


Yeah see told ya they are super comfy but a bit bouncy, I suppose there is no perfect all round tyre for the R35, all depends on your needs and compromise. For me its going to have to be a summer set and a winter set

Summer - R888R
Winter - 4S / MPSS or a pure winter tyre, not decided yet, probably 4S tho at the moment, as they are the best wet grip tyre I've tried for me, as it will only be for 2-3 months of the year, so I can handle a bit of bounce for that amount of time, and on the plus side will have great winter wet traction/grip.


----------



## danielhoworth (Feb 6, 2014)

Where's the best / cheapest place to get the 4s?

Also, just to double check that the following is the correct combination for the standard CBA wheels - 265/35R20 XL front and 301/30R20 XL rear?


----------



## WarrenA (Jun 2, 2016)

danielhoworth said:


> Where's the best / cheapest place to get the 4s?
> 
> Also, just to double check that the following is the correct combination for the standard CBA wheels - 265/35R20 XL front and 301/30R20 XL rear?


I just payed £1140 fitted didn’t get to shop around too much as the missed came home with a bolt in the tyre and yeah that works well with the standard wheels.


----------



## Supra_Sanj (Nov 16, 2012)

305/30R20 on the back not 301


----------



## tangoturbo (Jun 4, 2014)

kindai said:


> Right! New tyres done!
> 
> Thoughts? Well I gave them 10 miles or so scrub the worst of the release agents off before getting a bit frisky for 20 more miles. This was coming off my pzeros with 1.8mm of tread left all around.
> 
> ...



Are they Rung flat ?


----------



## AKS (Feb 4, 2015)

No I think he said MPS4S


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

tangoturbo said:


> Are they Rung flat ?


No, nor are they runflats.


----------



## GODZ1LLA_69 (Jan 7, 2017)

Great tire??


----------



## GOGO SPEED (Jul 8, 2016)

GODZ1LLA_69 said:


> Great tire??



the pss are really good and very durable so the 4s is surely very similar


----------



## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

In the same boat as Chronos, I've had R888R on for the summer and a track day, they are amazing but now I need some winter tyres and the PS4 seem the logical choice but the bounce is a concern.

The cup2s were good, but the bounce was horrible and really didn't inspire confidence in the car at all.. when I put the 888r on it all came straight back though.

From what I've read in this thread it sounds like the standard 255/40 and 285/35 sizes are the ones to go for???


----------



## Mozza_1981 (Dec 11, 2015)

Looking to get a set of PS4S in the next few weeks......

Who's doing deals in the Midlands area :clap:


----------



## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

I need a set too.. 265/305


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

My guy can usually get insanely low prices on them...

Prices a few months out of date but see how they compare:

MPS4S
285/35/20 - £204
255/40/20 - £204
295/35/20 K1 - £280
305/30/20 - £274
265/35/20 - £257


*edit* I know the 204 price has now gone up


----------



## Mozza_1981 (Dec 11, 2015)

kindai said:


> My guy can usually get insanely low prices on them...
> 
> Prices a few months out of date but see how they compare:
> 
> ...


Are these fitted prices bud?


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Mozza_1981 said:


> Are these fitted prices bud?



Yes.


----------



## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

You don't want the K1 at all!


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

GOGO SPEED said:


> the pss are really good and very durable so the 4s is surely very similar


They're actually very different for me.

Better grip in dry and wet, feel harder, less bounce, more bone rattling in your spine like the RFs.

Wet grip is astonishingly good. When tarmac is wet from recent rain I'd usually be careful of over doing it on straights and through the twisties. These MP4S are incredible on damp tarmac. In the deeper stuff they're pretty bloody good too.

On dry tarmac I cannot get any tail squirm from 840bhp full pedal to the floor from a rolling start. I haven't launched, but from a pedal plant from 0 mph they've never once lost grip.

They're the best tyre I've ever experienced in 28 years of driving.


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

charles charlie said:


> They're actually very different for me.
> 
> Better grip in dry and wet, feel harder, less bounce, more bone rattling in your spine like the RFs.
> 
> ...


I part agree, but having driven two almost identical cars at the Silverstone GP trackday yesterday, I have to say that in the dry (as it was yesterday) the Toyo's were streets ahead on grip than the 4S' even though the 4S' were the 265/305 set up. 

I agree about the all weather supremacy of the 4S' but purely for a dry track, then Toyo R888R in my opinion


----------



## Mozza_1981 (Dec 11, 2015)

charles charlie said:


> They're actually very different for me.
> 
> Better grip in dry and wet, feel harder, less bounce, more bone rattling in your spine like the RFs.
> 
> ...


Sounds good, cant wait to try a set!!!


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Mozza_1981 said:


> Sounds good, cant wait to try a set!!!


I know! I've tried a set, found them a bit bouncey but i had come from R888... 

He's right about the wet grip tho, superb! So i'm gonna put a set back on for winter.. was either these again or full wet tyres, but full wets won't give me many 'smiles per miles' factor over winter, whereas these will!.. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tin (Aug 15, 2010)

The front MPS4S 265/35/20 XL is available in N0 (porsche) or Merc MO fitment, any real difference other than price?


----------



## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

I notice the cups fitted to mine are K1 XL on the rear of mine. We're still of the belief that K1 fitment is not the best on a GT-R then? Very interested in the mp4s and think they may help with drag launches too. Have struggled for launch grip with the cups to be honest


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

gtr mart said:


> I notice the cups fitted to mine are K1 XL on the rear of mine. We're still of the belief that K1 fitment is not the best on a GT-R then? Very interested in the mp4s and think they may help with drag launches too.


K1, N0 etc isnt a fitment, its a composition change for a manufacturer.

K1 is ferrari, which will usually stipulate higher dry and endurance performance, sacrificing wet/cold ability.


----------



## Evo9lution (Aug 24, 2013)

kindai said:


> K1, N0 etc isnt a fitment, its a composition change for a manufacturer.
> 
> K1 is ferrari, which will usually stipulate higher dry and endurance performance, sacrificing wet/cold ability.


Also believe that the K moulds have less tread and are rated for cars of a slightly lower mass, which is why they're not ideal for the GTR and the N moulded tyres should be fitted.

I cannot comment on the M moulds, Tin, but I'd favour Beetle tyres over Merc ones ...


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Here you go: How Tyres Change For OE Approval the P Zero Story - Tyre Reviews


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Ok so setups seems to be - 

265/35/20 XL + 305/30/20 XL
275/35/20 XL + 305/30/20 XL
Stock - 255/40/20 XL + 285/35/20 XL
Still no 315 available..

*Question - 
*
Which would be the best combo for winter use? Am thinking R888R for Summer and 4S for winter, but not sure what size to get *just* to use in the winter/wet months...


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> Ok so setups seems to be -
> 
> 265/35/20 XL + 305/30/20 XL
> 275/35/20 XL + 305/30/20 XL
> ...


Stock would be 255/35 and 285/30

If youre using it for winter only, go for the skinnier option, I used stock sizes over this winter and was pootling around happily even through the ice and snow.


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I've been using the MP4S since last spring and they are the best tyre I've ever used.

Over this winter we've had everything on the road and combined with freezing temps. These tyres are out of this world impressive. Full throttle grip with 800+ bhp is ridiculous for a road tyre with these surface conditions.

Summertime grip was equally impressive.

I want be bothering with any other tyre, winter or summer.


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

charles charlie said:


> I want be bothering with any other tyre, winter or summer.



I was considering replacing mine with a new set also, having had the old ones on a year, but I like to try new things so had some cup2's fitted instead :chuckle:


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> Stock would be 255/35 and 285/30
> If youre using it for winter only, go for the skinnier option, I used stock sizes over this winter and was pootling around happily even through the ice and snow.



You sure about that? As when I do a tyre seach by number plate, it says stock size is - 255/40/20 XL + 285/35/20 XL

Try it 
https://www.national.co.uk/tyres
https://www.halfordsautocentres.com/tyres
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/registration-number
https://www.kwik-fit.com/tyres


----------



## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

charles charlie said:


> I've been using the MP4S since last spring and they are the best tyre I've ever used.
> 
> Over this winter we've had everything on the road and combined with freezing temps. These tyres are out of this world impressive. Full throttle grip with 800+ bhp is ridiculous for a road tyre with these surface conditions.
> 
> ...


What size are you running?


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

275/35/20 

305/30/20

I wanted 315 on the rear but there was no stock.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Original sizing was 255/40 R20 front and 285/35 R20 rear.

The right size for Michelin are 265/35 R20 front and 305/30 R20 rear

The Toyo's are 285/36 R20 front and 315/30 R20 rear and are fine for track but if you have a car post MY14 onwards, it can cause the centre clutch/ diff to heat up and the transmission temperatures to increase when on track.


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

charles charlie said:


> 275/35/20
> 
> 305/30/20
> 
> I wanted 315 on the rear but there was no stock.


I don't often disagree with you, but on this occasion I would point out that the rolling circumference on the 275 front 305 rear is 1.37% different, whereas the 265 front and 305 rear only gives a difference of 0.361% difference.

Therefore the 265 305 set up is actually closer than the OEM of 255 and 285 which gives a difference of more than 1%


----------



## Gatwickgtr (Dec 22, 2017)

I got mine at Litchfields a few weeks ago and they are amazing. I went from standard runflat to these and it's night and day. I've hardly felt any tramlining at all plus the grip is fab wet or dry.


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Absolutely John, I'm certainly not recommending my sizes just answering Barry's question.

When I bought my tyres there was limited sizes available so went with the closest I could find.

No issues thus far.....


----------



## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Gatwickgtr said:


> I got mine at Litchfields a few weeks ago and they are amazing. I went from standard runflat to these and it's night and day. I've hardly felt any tramlining at all plus the grip is fab wet or dry.




Agree but I have had a buttock clenching moment with them as they do bounce in depressions.


----------



## mike746 (Jul 8, 2015)

what tyre pressures are everyone using


----------



## tangoturbo (Jun 4, 2014)

charles charlie said:


> 275/35/20
> 
> 305/30/20
> 
> I wanted 315 on the rear but there was no stock.




Hi there

So for the stock 20" wheel 275/35, and 305/30 will fit and no issue?

are they run flat?

thanks


----------



## WSM (Oct 17, 2016)

Yes, fits no issue. I had them on mine. They're not run flats though. They're a super tyre. You'll not be disappointed.


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

tonigmr2 said:


> Agree but I have had a buttock clenching moment with them as they do bounce in depressions.


You tried upping the psi a bit? Somewhere a few threads back, I tried upping the psi on my 4S 265/305 and it helped with the bounce a bit...

...........

Ok so setups seems to be - 

265/35/20 XL + 305/30/20 XL
275/35/20 XL + 305/30/20 XL

Stock - 255/40/20 XL + 285/35/20 XL
Still no 315 available..

*Question - 
*
Which would be the best combo for winter use? Am thinking R888R for Summer and 4S for winter, but not sure what size to get *just* to use in the winter/wet months...


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Chronos said:


> You tried upping the psi a bit? Somewhere a few threads back, I tried upping the psi on my 4S 265/305 and it helped with the bounce a bit...
> 
> ...........
> 
> ...


Wrong.....................

Please do *not* use the 275 for the front, only the 265. It will throw the rolling circumference out too much if driven enthusiastically. Keep to the 265 front 305 rear on standard rims.

Pressures I use are 31psi front and 32psi rear cold, but it is a personal preference really


----------



## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Papa Smurf said:


> Wrong.....................
> Please do *not* use the 275 for the front, only the 265. It will throw the rolling circumference out too much if driven enthusiastically. Keep to the 265 front 305 rear on standard rims.
> Pressures I use are 31psi front and 32psi rear cold, but it is a personal preference really


oks so 4S 265/305 would be better for Winter only driving than 4S Stock - 255/40/20 XL + 285/35/20 XL sizes?

Some people around here think the thinner tyres are better in the wet.. So am just trying to see what would be best.

also wouldn't upping the psi a bit, help with the 4S bounce?

thanks


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Upping the psi does help with the bounce but if you over inflate the tyres then you do get the wrong handling characteristics that are not favourable. I have tried them up to 38psi but always return to the 31/32 set up. 

If you were to put bicycle tyres on the car it certainly would be better in the cold/ snow/ wet but not grip. You need a balance and the 265/305 set up gives you the right balance for all road usage. The Toyo tyres are great for track and just keep an eye on those tranny temperatures as more than 8 laps around Silverstone GP may see them fairly high.


----------



## Ramsascooby (Apr 9, 2016)

*litchfield size set up*



Gatwickgtr said:


> I got mine at Litchfields a few weeks ago and they are amazing. I went from standard runflat to these and it's night and day. I've hardly felt any tramlining at all plus the grip is fab wet or dry.


Hi,

Just wondered what sizing set up Litchfield recommended?

looking for new tyres to get rid of the run flats, but get a bit bamboozled following the threads sometimes.


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

265/35 R20 Michelin Pilot 4S XL front
305/30 R20 Michelin Pilot 4S XL rear


----------



## L6DJX (Sep 15, 2017)

mike746 said:


> what tyre pressures are everyone using


Cold 
32 R
30 F


----------



## Mozza_1981 (Dec 11, 2015)

Papa Smurf said:


> 265/35 R20 Michelin Pilot 4S XL front
> 305/30 R20 Michelin Pilot 4S XL rear


 Great Tyres


----------



## Tinyflier (Jun 13, 2012)

L6DJX said:


> Cold
> 32 R
> 30 F


Ignore me... I can't read properly!


----------



## jon9731 (Apr 24, 2015)

*what size should I run mps4*

I am running 10" front and 10.5" rear wheels I'm currently at the end of mpss tyre life with 275/35/20 and 305/30/20 , 275 on the front seems stretched a little already compared to the rear, is 275 or 285 on the front ok with mps4? with 305 on the rear? everyone is saying 265 front but they will be even more stretched?

thanks


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

jon9731 said:


> I am running 10" front and 10.5" rear wheels I'm currently at the end of mpss tyre life with 275/35/20 and 305/30/20 , 275 on the front seems stretched a little already compared to the rear, is 275 or 285 on the front ok with mps4? with 305 on the rear? everyone is saying 265 front but they will be even more stretched?
> 
> thanks


I don't know what you mean by stretched as the factory size is 255. 

The correct tyres for the GT-R are MPS4 265/35 R20 front and 305/30 R20 rear. This will give within 0.5% difference in rolling circumference between front and rear.


----------



## jon9731 (Apr 24, 2015)

yes but the standard wheel is 9.5" mine is 10" the sidewall with the 275 mpss still isn't flat compared to the back wheels with a flat side wall 10.5 wheel 305 tyre, so worried if I change to 265 it will be even more stretched look,


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Sorry, didn't click that you had the larger wheels.

For perfect match you need 275/35 R20 front and 325/30 R20 rear with MPS4. That will be a difference in rolling circumference of 0.349% which is better than the standard factory!


----------



## jon9731 (Apr 24, 2015)

ok great thank you for your help


----------



## alex_bg (Apr 23, 2017)

Hi all. Quick one- grip wise, at stage 4.25, should I expect a better grip with 305/265 combo? Would like to keep the 285/255 set up mainly due to the road conditions overhere(305/265 set up is a lower side wall profile). I need 4S in my life,not a Dunlop RF fan. I understand that 305/265 is better set up for handling, how about better grip? I am not sure that increased width will give significant better contact to get better grip, but would like to hear your opinion guys. Thanks in advance!


----------



## DocT (Dec 17, 2014)

Can anyone advise on the best fitted price for a set of 265/305's?


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Litchfield's are normally the best prices


----------



## Tekki (Feb 12, 2017)

Litchfield have just quoted me £1329 inc vat and fitting for a set of MPS4s.


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## PaulH0070 (Oct 19, 2017)

Black Circles comes in at £1200 all in. Obviously depends if you know and trust the chosen fitting garage, but there's a good saving if you can.


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Just going to chime in, as I think I was probably the first GTR with the MPS4S on in the UK and probably the first to burn through a set...

When I took the tyres off they were at 2.8mm tread left, and at that stage I had to take them off because the drop in grip and performance was borderline dangerous. 

Shortly after these were released Michelin fired out this article: https://www.michelin.com/eng/media-...rformance-up-to-the-legal-wear-limit-of-1.6mm

I emailed Michelin to express my disappointment about having to remove the tyres so early, they have emailed me back some instructions that they may replace the set of tyres. 

Unfortunately this is too late after the fact now I imagine as my tyres are gone so they cant be shipped back to them for testing or analysis / whatever, but should anyone else find that with a decent amount of tread left they suddenly drop off a cliff edge in terms of performance like I found, email them explaining the problem and they'll give you instructions and may replace the tyres for you.

Hopefully Michelin might offer me a goodwill gesture or something given this scheme wasn't / doesn't seem to be well advertised and I only found out after I had swapped my tyres and got rid of the old ones.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Make sure they are XL and N coded and not K coded


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Papa Smurf said:


> Make sure they are XL and N coded and not K coded


They were XL coded.


----------



## TurboSam (May 1, 2017)

Papa Smurf said:


> Make sure they are XL and N coded and not K coded


Why what's K coded ? 


Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


----------



## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

TurboSam said:


> Why what's K coded ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


Ferrari Spec.


----------



## Tekki (Feb 12, 2017)

PaulH0070 said:


> Black Circles comes in at £1200 all in. Obviously depends if you know and trust the chosen fitting garage, but there's a good saving if you can.


That's always the concern when having any work carried out on my car. I spoke to a chap last week that had slightly curbed an alloy that couldn't be repaired back to as new so he bought a new alloy at £1800.....yikes! Having had Litchfield recently service my car and seeing the care taken whilst doing it I personally think it's worth the extra cost for peace of mind.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Tekki said:


> That's always the concern when having any work carried out on my car. I spoke to a chap last week that had slightly curbed an alloy that couldn't be repaired back to as new so he bought a new alloy at £1800.....yikes! Having had Litchfield recently service my car and seeing the care taken whilst doing it I personally think it's worth the extra cost for peace of mind.


Really? I got mine refurbished for normal alloy price in Glasgow!! To CBA colour.


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## Blade1 (Aug 17, 2011)

So I need new tires and looking at Costco etc, they come up with (by plate), 255/285 (F/R). Chronos said this earlier. Why is this?

Is it because these are specs of the Dunlops (which my car currently has)?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

It***8217;s because those are the standard tyre sizes from the factory.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Blade1 said:


> So I need new tires and looking at Costco etc, they come up with (by plate), 255/285 (F/R). Chronos said this earlier. Why is this?
> 
> Is it because these are specs of the Dunlops (which my car currently has)?


put the sizes in manually that you require


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## R1CNH (Oct 3, 2017)

Hi guys
Been reading through all this thread, some great information.
I have a 2017 GTR on the standard Dunlop R/F tyres, the rears are quite low but the fronts have plenty of life left, can I put the MPS4S in the OE size on the rear and keep the Dunlop R/F till they need changing then go to the MPS4S in the OE size on the front? So R/F front and not rear for a while?

Rich


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Don***8217;t mix runflats and non-runflats on a car at the same time.

They have very different dynamic characteristics which would significantly affect road handling.


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## R1CNH (Oct 3, 2017)

Thanks for the reply Charles, just seems such a shame to ditch 2 good front tyres.
Suppose my only option is to go with the MPS4S all round or buy 2 new runflats then.

Rich


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## alex_bg (Apr 23, 2017)

R1CNH said:


> Thanks for the reply Charles, just seems such a shame to ditch 2 good front tyres.
> Suppose my only option is to go with the MPS4S all round or buy 2 new runflats then.
> 
> Rich


I faced the same issue-fronts with plenty of life left. Went for new MP4S all around- great choice so far. On them for a month and very happy.


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## R1CNH (Oct 3, 2017)

Hey Alex, yea it***8217;s a bummer to just throw away 2 good tyres, what size MPS4S did you go for? OE sizes?
Think that***8217;s what I will end up doing just don***8217;t know if I should go 265/305 or the standard 255/285

Rich


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## DuncDriver (Mar 19, 2017)

Just got a quote from my local reliable tyre place on 265 + 305 MPS4S, they mentioned a £100 cash back offer on an already competitive price when buying a set of four. 

Offer running until end of April apparently, for those fortunate to have a good local tyre fitter might be worth the call.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

DuncDriver said:


> Just got a quote from my local reliable tyre place on 265 + 305 MPS4S, they mentioned a £100 cash back offer on an already competitive price when buying a set of four.
> 
> Offer running until end of April apparently, for those fortunate to have a good local tyre fitter might be worth the call.


That is Black Circle and just make sure you tick the reinforced box.


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## alex_bg (Apr 23, 2017)

R1CNH said:


> Hey Alex, yea it's a bummer to just throw away 2 good tyres, what size MPS4S did you go for? OE sizes?
> Think that's what I will end up doing just don't know if I should go 265/305 or the standard 255/285
> 
> Rich


Agree with you, it is... Anyhow, I went OEM sizes 285/255, for me 305/265 are just too low for the road conditions over here. Had similar tyre height on my XF-RS and it is a no-no for me.


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## Dsm1113 (Dec 23, 2016)

I've run the MPS4S on the track and have been very impressed. After 6-7 laps on a technical circuit they do overheat - more to do with the mass of the GTR I suspect.


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## Vizzzzo (Sep 30, 2016)

On the hunt for some:

265/35 R20 Michelin Pilot 4S XL front
305/30 R20 Michelin Pilot 4S XL rear


Prices i'm getting:

Costco (fitted) - £1,057.36

Camskill (delivered) - £941.50 

Oponeo (delivered) - £984

Ruislip Tyres (fitted) - £1060 (+£100 prepaid visa card from michelin)

See Michelin website offer link:
https://www.rewardpromotions.co.uk/mfgc.v2/Task?countryId=1


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Well as an addendum to this I changed cars and I'm now back on runflats in standard sizes.....and I think I prefer them!! 

Although the 4S were very comfortable and made the car feel very planted, they shook my confidence when I hit a dip at speed. Although the standard runflats make the ride harder and the car if anything feels a little more nervous, I can feel more what is going on so it looks like I will be staying stock in future.


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## Stotty251 (Mar 13, 2017)

I need 2 rear tyres.
Front have 6mm left on them running mpss 

Rears are bold. Is there any reason why I can't run mp4s on the back and mpss on the front? As they are £70 a tyre cheaper?


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Do they still sell MPSS, I thought they stoped making them?


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## Stotty251 (Mar 13, 2017)

Camskills still have them for sale


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## Gtrmad43786 (Aug 21, 2014)

ATS on check out have enter promo code does any one know this code?


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## King88 (Jun 5, 2018)

Blackcircle will fit MPSS on all 4 standard corners for £947 - is that a good deal?


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

You do not want MPSS as the replacement is so much better. You need 265/35 R20 front and 305/30 R20 rear in Michelin MPS4's. Better suited to the GT-R with less bounce and stronger sidewalls.


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## DocT (Dec 17, 2014)

Papa Smurf said:


> You do not want MPSS as the replacement is so much better. You need 265/35 R20 front and 305/30 R20 rear in Michelin MPS4's. Better suited to the GT-R with less bounce and stronger sidewalls.


Is there an upsize option (even bigger than 305) for big power cars?


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Yes there is provided you have the larger wheels front and rear. The next size up whilst keeping the rolling circumference the same as OEM front to rear are 285/35 R20 front and 345/30 R20 rear. These are available through Litchfield's.


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## DuncDriver (Mar 19, 2017)

Replaced my MPSS 'square' setup with the MPS4S a couple of weeks ago. Glad to have seen the benefits described above, albeit after I had taken them down a few PSI from the default the tyre fitters put in.


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## Sheriff (Mar 2, 2016)

DuncDriver said:


> albeit after I had taken them down a few PSI from the default the tyre fitters put in.


Really, I thought they needed more PSI to counter the soft sidewalls. I'm running around 32PSI but am tempted to run 34-35 as suggested by others due to the noticeable 'bounce' from these MPS4Ss.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

MP4S have stiffer sidewalls than the MPSS. I used to run 34 on the MPSS but now use 32 on the 4S.


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## DuncDriver (Mar 19, 2017)

Sheriff said:


> Really, I thought they needed more PSI to counter the soft sidewalls. I'm running around 32PSI but am tempted to run 34-35 as suggested by others due to the noticeable 'bounce' from these MPS4Ss.


Fitters had them up at 42 !


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## TurboSam (May 1, 2017)

Yeah I run 32 here as well 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

Think its finally time to try the PS4s as winter is coming and the Toyos R888Rs are pretty much done for now.

Am I right in saying the correct size I'm after is:
Front: 265/35 
Rear: 305/30

Looking on tyreleader there are 3 variants .. MO1 (merc), N0 (Porsche) and then just normal which are cheapest.
They all are XL
Does it matter which ones? Very strange how the merc/Porsche ones have rating of B in wet, yet normal has rating of A
And fuel effecientcy of merc/Porsche is E and normal is C lol.

Am I missing something? Would the N0 or MO1 tyres be better or is it just the standard merc/porsche ****** tax?


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

Curious - Why dont people run the cup2s ?


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## NoPk11 (May 15, 2016)

terry lloyd said:


> Curious - Why dont people run the cup2s ?


When I had the cup2s (prior to the R888R) they were so bouncy and I had no confidence in the car at all.
I remember going up eau rouge at Spa on the cup2s vs R888r and its night and day difference. R888rs are so much more planted 

Thats probably the only thing that worries me about the ps4s i hope they dont feel like the cup2s and i lose confidence in the car.. as the toyos are awesome but just dont cut it in the winter

plus cup2s are a lot more expensive?


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Wet weather handling is not as good and you start with less tread with the Cup2's than MPS4's.

The sizes are correct at 265 and 305, and as long as they have reinforced sidewalls and XL, I don't think there is much difference.



terry lloyd said:


> Curious - Why dont people run the cup2s ?


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

I have just changed to cup2s from mpss on the bm they are said to have stiffer side walls with duel compound on the outer and inner tread , they certainly make the car feel more stable than the mpss , my choice with cup2s over r888r was due to noise and wear cup2s are as quiet as the mpss and some are quoting 8k miles out of them - different car i know but on the BM forum a lot are taking the 4s off saying they are to soft on the side walls may be worth checking before spending - i have not tried them so its hear say


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

terry lloyd said:


> I have just changed to cup2s from mpss on the bm they are said to have stiffer side walls with duel compound on the outer and inner tread , they certainly make the car feel more stable than the mpss , my choice with cup2s over r888r was due to noise and wear cup2s are as quiet as the mpss and some are quoting 8k miles out of them - different car i know but on the BM forum a lot are taking the 4s off saying they are to soft on the side walls may be worth checking before spending - i have not tried them so its hear say



Have tried all 3.

Went back to the Cup2s.

Best all rounder is the MPS4S, very confidence inspiring even in bad and changing conditions. However, despite being a track capable road tyre they simply dont stand upto the abuse I throw at them. Came off with 3mm of tread when the car simply felt skittish the moment any power was demanded. I will be putting a set on my car for winter use / when the temps start to fall off, but the Cup2's will be going back on near the end of March.

R888 (not the R888R) despite being a very very popular tyre, I just did not get on with. Just felt too vague anywhere except going around a corner quickly on the edge, grip was good in the dry, appalling in the wet. 

Cup2, seems to hit a lovely balance. Grip is incredible, tyre life is very very good. And is passable in changing conditions, though no good once the temps drop (not that it stopped me going out in the snow earlier this year lol). 

Just my opinion, and I know it will be quite unpopular as I know a lot of the guys here love the R888, but for me it just was a letdown.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

This is why I like this forum. There is not a right answer, just opinions that are more valuable. 

Horses for courses and preferences that are based on individual preferences.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

ok so here's a strange one chaps..

I ended up with some MPS4S in 305 30 20 N0(Porsche fitment) XL and 305 30 20 XL (none N0) and guess what? they have different tread patterns! the (none N0) MPS4S 265 and 305 have the same 'jaggered' type pattern see below pictures BUT the 305 N0 is different!.. 

Only difference on the Michelin website https://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-4-s is that the wet ratings on standard MPS4S is A and N0 its B , so does this make the non N0 slightly better in the wet for us?? hmmm










*LEFT(top) picture-MPS4S 305 30 20 - stock (outside of tyre on left) NOTICE JAGGED PATTERN TREAD + overall pattern is different, normal 265 35 20 has this as well , but N0 tyres doesnt* 

*RIGHT(bottom) picture-MPS4S 305 30 20 - N0 type tread (outside of tyre on left)*

































*x2 MPS4S 305 30 20 - N0 bottom - stock top 
*


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## Rob S. (Nov 4, 2016)

So what size 4 S do i have to take now and more important with which type? I can take N0, M0, etc etc.


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## Rob S. (Nov 4, 2016)

NoPk11 said:


> Think its finally time to try the PS4s as winter is coming and the Toyos R888Rs are pretty much done for now.
> 
> Am I right in saying the correct size I'm after is:
> Front: 265/35
> ...


This i would also like to know. I want to order the tyres but dont know which ones i have to take.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> ok so here's a strange one chaps..
> 
> I ended up with some MPS4S in 305 30 20 N0(Porsche fitment) XL and 305 30 20 XL (none N0) and guess what? they have different tread patterns! the (none N0) MPS4S 265 and 305 have the same 'jaggered' type pattern see below pictures BUT the 305 N0 is different!..


Porsche always specify performance in the dry, so its easy to see there.

Its always why I spec N-rated tyres, they are grippy as hell.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Rob S. said:


> So what size 4 S do i have to take now and more important with which type? I can take N0, M0, etc etc.


It's hard to know, mayve papa smurf could chime in?



kindai said:


> Porsche always specify performance in the dry, so its easy to see there.
> Its always why I spec N-rated tyres, they are grippy as hell.


Well at the moment, its worked out strangely for me but as i've got..

MPS4S 265 35 20 XL standard type rated A wet on the front 'jaggered type tread'
MPS4S 305 30 20 XL N0 rated B wet on the back 'straight tread'

Plus I have another set of rears MPS4S 305 30 20 standard type rated A spare in the house, so am thinking of taking the 305 N0 off the back, and maybe putting the standard 305 on, as this in theory would give me a better overall wet gri?..., and the same type 'jaggered' standard MPS4S tread all round...

*LEFT(top) picture-MPS4S 305 30 20 - stock (outside of tyre on left) NOTICE JAGGED PATTERN TREAD + overall pattern is different, normal 265 35 20 has this as well , but N0 tyres doesnt* 

*RIGHT(bottom) picture-MPS4S 305 30 20 - N0 type tread (outside of tyre on left)*


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

NoPk11 said:


> Think its finally time to try the PS4s as winter is coming and the Toyos R888Rs are pretty much done for now.
> 
> Am I right in saying the correct size I'm after is:
> Front: 265/35
> ...


Hmmm i'd be interested about this also, I've got 265 35 20 XL M01 (merc) fronts, are they any different to standard MPS4S 265 35 20 XL?

looks like M01 (mercedes fitment) have wet rating of B .. and so does N0 (Porsche)

...and standard 265 have A ... are we better getting standard sizes for slightly improved wet grip? A

https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/michelin/pilot-sport-4-s#anchorAllSizes

Hmmmmmmmmmmm


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## Vizzzzo (Sep 30, 2016)

Papa Smurf said:


> Yes there is provided you have the larger wheels front and rear. The next size up whilst keeping the rolling circumference the same as OEM front to rear are 285/35 R20 front and 345/30 R20 rear. These are available through Litchfield's.



I have some new wheels that are 20x10 & 20x11.5. Would it be "ok" to run my current 265/305 setup (tyres are quite new) or would you move to larger 285/345?


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## marknjayne1 (Dec 25, 2013)

been looking at this,i dont like how there is such a difference in circumference from the standard sizes.


Circumference difference between 255/40 and 265/35 is 2236.8mm & 2178.7mm respectively.


Circumference difference between 285/35 and 305/30 is 2222.7mm & 2170.8mm respectively.

surely this makes the speedo incorrect ?


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

marknjayne1 said:


> been looking at this,i dont like how there is such a difference in circumference from the standard sizes.
> 
> 
> Circumference difference between 255/40 and 265/35 is 2236.8mm & 2178.7mm respectively.
> ...


Your speedo wont be correct on stock tyres. The minor change on moving to these will still mean its over-reading. Top of my head I had to be doing ~76-77 indicated to be doing 70 GPS on this setup.


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## marknjayne1 (Dec 25, 2013)

kindai said:


> Your speedo wont be correct on stock tyres. The minor change on moving to these will still mean its over-reading.


ok fair enough ,think itll make it "more correct" i suppose but also there is over a 50mm difference in overall circumference,wont they look a bit.....small ?


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

This was MPS4S in that setup.










And this was cup2s


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

ok update had the MPS4S 265/305 N0 (Porsche fitment) on a good while now- 

MPS4S i much prefer the N0 (Porsche fitment) stiffer sidewalls (less flexing), and yes I've tried M0 (merc) and standard (no label) which seem to me to have less stiff sidewalls, and i felt more flex/bounce at 80mph+ with those on

What psi is everyone using?

I'm on currently cold 30 front and 32 rear seems a good balance, going to tweak it up to 31F/32R for a bit just to be crazy! haha but yeah a great overall tyre for me now, wet and dry. Seem a bit less PSI sensitive compared to MPSS as well, which is a good thing!


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> ok update had the MPS4S 265/305 N0 (Porsche fitment) on a good while now-
> 
> MPS4S i much prefer the N0 (Porsche fitment) stiffer sidewalls (less flexing), and yes I've tried M0 (merc) and standard (no label) which seem to me to have less stiff sidewalls, and i felt more flex/bounce at 80mph+ with those on
> 
> ...


Try dropping to 28 all around on the n0 tyre. Was a really sweet spot on my car.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

kindai said:


> Try dropping to 28 all around on the n0 tyre. Was a really sweet spot on my car.


Why better than low 30's tho? thanks did you try other psi's ?


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

I have tried it and unless you are going to track the car and get heat into the tyres very quickly, I would not recommend these pressures for road use.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Papa Smurf said:


> I have tried it and unless you are going to track the car and get heat into the tyres very quickly, I would not recommend these pressures for road use.


What PSI do you recommend for MPS4S 265/305 road use? I've tried 30F/32R and 31F/32R which have been decent so far..... thanks


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

You are spot on in that range. If you go below 30psi then the weight of the car will cause the suspension to work through the tyres rather than the springs and dampers etc. You will also get more heat in them at 28psi which is not really required unless on track etc.


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## kindai (Feb 8, 2016)

Chronos said:


> Why better than low 30's tho? thanks did you try other psi's ?


Sorry, I thought you said track, yes 30 all around on road is what I was using and enjoyed, dropped down to 28 for track. Tried higher and just made the car skittish imho.


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