# using superbike engine oil in my RB26 would be bad because....?



## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I just changed the oil in my bike - a BMW S1000RR. This is a 999cc engine that redlines at 14,200rpm, has an output of over 200bhp/liter, and given the heat the thing gives off, is a very stressed and high strung engine. To lubricate this very high output engine, I used this:


















Which is what BMW recommends in their owners manual. And which got me to think - if this oil is the best available for an engine that revs that high, produces that much specific power per liter (albeit N/A, not turbo), runs as hot as it does, and has such sensitive lubrication requirements...then why not use it in the RB26?

There are more stringent requirements for a bike oil; it also has to work in the transmission as well as the clutch. But putting it in a situation where the requirements are less (except for possibly handling the high temps inside a turbo core)...am I missing something in that it wouldn't work?

Or does it just contain additives that aren't required in a car, but would otherwise work just as well as a normal fully synthetic 10W-50?

I ask because usually top-shelf superbike oil costs more, but in Korea, premium engine oils are marked up so high that I'd actually save about $100 per oil change if I use superbike oil.

Thoughts/**informed** opinions?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

It may be the best oil for a bike that's running at high temperatures but the oil will most likely have a different nature running cooler in a car engine. It may degrade through not operating within its specified temperature range. The last thing you want is a load of gummy oil blocking in the turbo feeds. You may end up regretting it. Just my opinion of course.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

damn, didn't think of that, it is an oil designed to run a lot hotter. Although...Skyline engines do run on the hot side.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

They also absorb a lot of clutch waste (wet clutch) which is why you need to change it more than a car.
I thought Motul 800 4t bike oil was really good in cars ....


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

a lot of people try to use car oil in bikes...which you can't. Even if the bike has a dry clutch, the transmission really does a number on breaking down engine oil. Hence the JASO standard for bike oils.

But haven't found anything on people trying it the *other* way around - a race-spec bike oil in a car engine.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

My mate runs motul 800 in his seriously powerfull sr20det
No known issues


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

right then. Castrol R4 Racing is $20 a liter. Castrol TWS 10W-60 is $30, when I can find it. Motul is even higher.

R4 Racing it is for my next oil change.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Don't forget the turbo is oiled with engine oil, so it will get very hot.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

R32 Combat said:


> Don't forget the turbo is oiled with engine oil, so it will get very hot.


I've kept that in mind. Obviously, coking up would be very bad, but there's no standard for oils used in turbocharged engines (like the JASO standard for bike oils) - all racing automotive oils just say they're good for high output engines. The Castrol R4 Racing I'm going to try out is 10W-50, so it's no lightweight oil, it's full synthetic, and is designed to withstand the shearing caused by the gnashing of gears in a bike transmission, which it won't see in a car. If anything, using Motul 300V 0W-20 was more of a mistake when I tried that four years ago and ended up spinning a bearing.

I guess we'll see - automotive full synthetics are just so damned expensive here in Korea, and when I found that my bike oil (which should cost more), actually cost MUCH less (on par with normal prices in Western countries), the cogs started turning in my head.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Contact OPIE oils and ask the Oilman....He will tell you if it's the go


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Oil viscosity changes against combustion temperature, therefore, the speed at which the oil will flow arround the engine would be different to that of a bike's engine. This will be a risky attempt and could be a costly experiment, though I'd love to find out what happens if it was done.


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## plumwerks (Dec 15, 2006)

Wasn't Motul all bike oils,even the 300v was designed from racing bike oils.
Can't really see anything going wrong except maybe different detergent properties.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Just out of curiosity, hows running oil in a turbo bike engine differnt than a turbo car engine ?
As far as Im aware the turbo'd bike engines run the same engine oil as they run prior to having that hair dryer looking device stuck onto them ...


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Sub Boy said:


> Contact OPIE oils and ask the Oilman....He will tell you if it's the go


He gave me the thumbs up yesterday, said fundamentally they were the same stuff, hi-performance bike and car oils.


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## r33-sky (Sep 27, 2009)

As others have said car oil in a bike is a big no-no, the anti-shear index because of use in the transmision is wrong, however what you propose seems 100% fine to me.
Posibly even better because of the high ASI.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

well, I just popped in 9 liters of Castrol R4 Racing 10W-50, and the engine sounds pretty happy  We'll see over the long haul, but bike oils have to withstand a lot of abuse that it just won't see in an RB26 (transmission gears, clutch plates, plus protect bearings past 16,000rpm). I'm pretty confident, but I am again experimenting, which hasn't always gone well. But Castrol R4 is as good as it gets for high-performance racing oils for bikes.

And I saved $100 on oil with my 9-liter wet sump oil system...


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## rasonline (Mar 24, 2005)

is that a typo or did you really put in all of 9 litres? How come your oil capacity is that high?


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

About 13-15 years ago I used Castrol Mobkil 10W50 on a VFR750 used daily doing around 40000 miles during that time. Being a young tearaway I modified it & usually rode it hard after warming.
The clutch did slip at first, but uprated springs cured that. In total the bike's done 73000 miles.
setting the carbs site with new jets, exhaust, filter it still made about 10% more
power than std. Never needed valve re-shimming. 
In those days car oil was more advanced than bike oils off the shelf.

I ran my current bike's engine in on basic mineral oil - in line with modern school of thought for break in. No need to use car synthetics on the bike & anti-shear is worthwhile so using WAKOS 4T.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

well each oil has its own properties so use oil that is recommended not anything else. you won't be damaging anything I think but, it will degrade too fast.....


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

rasonline said:


> is that a typo or did you really put in all of 9 litres? How come your oil capacity is that high?


4.0 liters - standard sump
0.5 liters - remote oil filter hoses
1.5 liters - sump extension
1.5 liters - Trust oil cooler plus hoses
2.5 liters - Accusump plus -10AN hoses that run all the way to the back of the trunk.

Yep, that's 9 liters, fills to the bottom of the hump on the dipstick. A Tomei oil pump fully shimmed drives all this oil system madness. Relief valve opens at 7 bars but it hits 9 bars oil pressure at 8000rpm with oil at 90 degrees. If the oil pump fails, the system will put out 1-2 bars oil pressure for 30-40 seconds...enough time to get out of gear, pull over and shut the car off.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

enshiu said:


> well each oil has its own properties so use oil that is recommended not anything else. you won't be damaging anything I think but, it will degrade too fast.....


why might it degrade too fast? I've been wondering about that - bike oils in high performance bikes need pretty frequent oil changes, but that's because the transmission does a hell of a job breaking down the long polymer chains that stabilize viscosity. A JASO-spec oil can't have certain friction modifiers, but interestingly, last time I looked at the label of standard Motul 300V for cars, there was a JASO-cert there, meaning in theory you could run that in a bike.

Superbike racing oils have to withstand running through gears that breaks down an oil fast while keeping the shell bearings safe for 16,000rpm operation...and there are no gears for oil to mesh through inside an RB26, not to mention a clutch bath to also run through.

Otherwise, it's a fully-synthetic 10W-50, and while superbike racing oils usually cost more, the money I'm saving due to weird pricing (Motul is insanely expensive here), will just have me changing oil more.

But as I said, it is somewhat experimental, because very few people put racing-grade superbike oil in cars (due to expense, probably), while lots of people try car oil in their bikes. Whatever my results are, I'll surely document them here as the months go by. But so far the engine seems to like this oil - average PFC knock readings off boost (indicating general engine noise) are down by 5, and down by 4~8 on boost.


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

no idea on this stuff,but much kudos for doing all this stuff that other's may or may not have done mate!


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

I just wouldnt want to risk damaging the engine for the sake of saving a few quid.
Just my opinion- I am interested to hear how it goes for you


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

LOL
Ok lets really over complicate this ....


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

GT-R Glenn said:


> LOL
> Ok lets really over complicate this ....




In what way?
I have aready in Imho.


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## Gambit (Sep 22, 2005)

kismetcapitan said:


> 4.0 liters - standard sump
> 0.5 liters - remote oil filter hoses
> 1.5 liters - sump extension
> 1.5 liters - Trust oil cooler plus hoses
> ...


Nope, thats 10 litres


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

Several things to consider really...

Bike engines run at similar temps to car engines Yes the seem hot because your sat on top of the thing but in fact its internal temp should be similar to a car...

Second, A Turbo runs far far hotter than any N/A engine ever will, The Turbo can experience temps of up to 900 degrees C

Just use the correct oil for the correct job. No point trying to do otherwise. (Actually, After re-reading your prices There might be a point  )

"and there are no gears for oil to mesh through inside an RB26" 
What about the oil pump ?

"plus protect bearings past 16,000rpm" How about turbo bearings at 200,000 rpm ?

Good luck with the experiment, Im not sure how you intend to measure wear though ?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

So far so good; the engine seems to be quite happy. What I'm watching is baseline engine noise; the knock graph while motoring around off-boost and at operating temps. The engine revs smoothly and it's significantly quieter than before. Having spun a bearing before, the engine tends to get "clanky" both audibly and on the knock graph, before the bearing let go. 

Let me reiterate that I'm only saving money due to how oil is priced in Korea. Usually, superbike oil costs a bit more than high performance full synthetic car oil. It's still a 10W-50 fully synthetic ester. 

So the only question mark is longevity, and that just requires keeping a close eye on the dipstick and the color/consistency of the oil...something that ought to be done anyways.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Gambit said:


> Nope, thats 10 litres


hmm...true. Proof that not all Asians are good at math!! 

Good point re: oil pump, but then regular car oil has to go through those gears as well and has no special additives to handle the crushing force of gears, while bike oil is designed to handle the constant stress of going through an entire transmission as well as the oil pump.


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## ditzola (Apr 30, 2011)

hmm..i just wonder if this thing really works?


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Like I already said ....



> Just out of curiosity, hows running oil in a turbo bike engine differnt than a turbo car engine ?
> As far as Im aware the turbo'd bike engines run the same engine oil as they run prior to having that hair dryer looking device stuck onto them ...


Marky GTST


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

you know what, it might be premature, but after 1000km, I'm going to say that this oil is better than the Motul 15W-50 I'd been using. The engine is just...smoother. No odd rattles, and I suppose the only real way to find out if it's "bad" is if I suddenly spin a bearing. But then again, people spin bearings on car-specific oil all the time.

No real oddities with oil pressure, although at temp it's a bit lower than what the Motul 300V ran at, at idle.

I've found my new oil, and will stick with this stuff. Saving 50% on oil means I'll change it more as well....and to reiterate, superbike oil generally costs the same or MORE: it's just that sports car oils in Korea are so heavily overpriced and I get my bike oil from the BMW Motorrad dealer at their normal worldwide standard price.


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