# M6beg, lets carry on over here.......



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

What does the scooby run at the pod? 12's?

Come on man, lets get real here, If your tracks are 'different' in England it might pay to let officials know and have them checked as there's been a few records claimed lately and it would be a shame if it were found they were not done on a legal dragstrip.

Are the tracks longer than 1320 feet? 

How flat are the flat ones and how much uphill are the uphill ones?

What compensation for these variences should the rest of the world give you guys for running on these unusual strips?

Do you have head winds we should maybe know about?

Does your terrets syndrome affect your driving or does it kick in only once you've crossed the finish line?

Lets take all of this as a bit of fun, I enjoy a good windup and this is the thread for it, so lets go, gimme your best!!

Rob


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

Are you saying that the time found at the POD is too slow, or too fast? Just wondering?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Sorry, you need to know what has happened to get this thread started, here's some of it:

M6beg: What a load of Shite i am reading here.

12000 rpm on a stock crank??? Dream on. Please that is utter shite talk.

Sorry for the attitude problem from myself in the above comments.

But if the standard crank could achieve so much why the **** are we all buying Jun/hks/trust cranks???? 

Mick


R.I.P.S: Who said we are "ALL" buying aftermarket cranks?

Maybe you've been told by someone you need it? Who knows.
Lets not get into an argument about it but PLEASE understand that just because you havn't done it, or just because you've been told it can't be done, doesn't mean its true.
For years I've been told things I do can't or won't work, and yet with a tiny budget compared to most I race against, I'm the one with the championship wins and 1st place drag trophies on my shelf?? strange.

I've never had a crank fail, I know of plenty of guys running 1000whp+ on stock 26 cranks, most don't rev to 12k but one I know of definatly does and the only part in his engine that hasn't given trouble at 3 bar+ boost + a big shot of NOS and big rpm is the crank, everything else has failed but never the stock crank.

Here's an example of not believing everything you hear:

Firstly, I absolutly respect what you have done with your car, well done, and you would well know what it takes to do a 9 and what it has cost to get it.

Now, as an example, remove the sequential from your car, put a totally stock high mile used R32 box back in and its pretty common knowledge that you'll drop 0.5 seconds from your time, that gets you around 10.3 - 10.4 right?.

Now consider that, with a long engine I regularly sell for 2k pounds (complete bottom end and complete head, all assembled), I have done a 10.2, with an old stock box in a street skyline on regular pump gas, everyone said it couldn't be done on stock internals,in fact we had to take power OUT to get the stock boxes to hold the 10.2.

Now, put a sequential in my old car that owed 10k pounds all up, not only would I be then around 9.7, I'd also be able to wind some more power into my 100% stock internal, unmodified 2k pound long motor and would probably get down to mid 9's.

That car/motor is now over 5 years old and still going strong untouched so reliability is not an issue either.

Sounds crazy doesn't it but I assure you everything I have just said is 100% true. 

The best thing is, do what your doing, have fun and I'll do the same, but keep in mind that the way you do it may not be the "only" way and everything you hear on the grapevine may not be true.

Rob

M6beg: Truth.

Wrong. My car has a sequential box but has never had the full potential. Ither there is something wrong with the engine. Which Perfect Touch has sorted with new one. Did a few runs at Jap Show yet again transfer box was fooked, But still won it which was to say the least the best day of owning the lemon because of Tweenirob and the boys. Please don't take this the wrong way Rob but in England we have drag strips that are flat or even up hill. It is so harder to do it.

I will place a bet with you here and now get your 10's car that you have made. And i have no disrespect what so ever my wife's Scooby would beat it at the pod.

Don't take this the wrong way. In England things are different.

Mick


and thats how it started, just a bit of fun but its getting interesting now :chuckle:


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

the engine parts will come from his mates at Jun, :chuckle: 

Or it'll be mapped for 700 mile use only


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## HenrikE (Mar 23, 2006)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Does your terrets syndrome affect your driving or does it kick in only once you've crossed the finish line?


AAAAHAHAHAHAhahahaha!!!!
Good one m8!


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## frostmotorsport (Aug 10, 2007)

*sorry RIPS*

"Does your _terrets_ syndrome affect your driving or does it kick in only once you've crossed the finish line?"

it's *tourettes!* 

other than that, I'm also curious to know how the UK conditions and tracks differ to make it harder to drive 400m....


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Terrets, tourettes, same difference to me, lol. He gets very excited and swears alot so I was just curious.

Re: tracks. If the UK strips are that bad, maybe they need to come over here, imagine how good the faster UK GTR boys would go on our "downhill, tailwind, 350 meter strips" :clap: Reece, look out!!:nervous: 


Rob


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

lol and out come the snipers...

Rob, (a genuine question) what RON fuel do you use for the times you have done; ie the UK#1 in your signature?


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

I like you Rob! You're a funny guy.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

matt j said:


> Rob, (a genuine question) what RON fuel do you use for the times you have done; ie the UK#1 in your signature?



We use normal 98 octain pump gas from the public gas station, no additives.

Rob


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> imagine how good the faster UK GTR boys would go on our "downhill, tailwind, 350 meter strips"


aha! I knew it all along  

   

I reckon we should meet half way. Dubai sounds good
(never was good at geography!) :thumbsup:


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> We use normal 98 octain pump gas from the public gas station, no additives.
> 
> Rob



:thumbsup:


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## GeorgeGTR (Feb 16, 2006)

Well I ran a 10.51 @ 131mph at Santa pod on a standard crank & box and on normal pump fuel at 530whp (Shell VPower) :smokin:

My best 60ft of the day was a 1.42.


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## chris singleton (Jul 20, 2005)

Andy W said:


> Or it'll be mapped for 700 mile use only



LMFAO mate 

You're never gonna let that go are you


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## Nocturnal (Nov 5, 2004)

GeorgeGTR said:


> Well I ran a 10.51 @ 131mph at Santa pod on a standard crank & box and on normal pump fuel at 530whp (Shell VPower) :smokin:
> 
> My best 60ft of the day was a 1.42.


You want to drive my car? How do you get a 1.42 60ft? 

I did a 1.85 60ft and I thought that was good and fast... :chairshot


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Hi Rob,

I think the truth is in New Zealand there is a history of competing with your skill and ingenuity as opposed to your wallets. In the case of Skylines this coupled with a bigger supply of, for example RB30's and a "can do" outlook, where maybe trashing the odd RB30 to find out if something works isn't too expensive. Take this "approach" and add a modern well equipped workshop and the results are no suprise to me. 

While some tracks might give slightly different results from others taken as a whole there won't be much if any difference in the average times between NZ and UK tracks. 

Any way you guys can sneak a car in with one of the containers coming this way next year and we'll see what happens at the pod? 

Oh and If anyone doubts this history of NZ ingenuity read the story of Burt Munro and his Indian Motorcycle:

"He made his own barrels, flywheels, pistons, cams and followers and lubrication system. In their final form he in effect hand-carved his con-rods from a Caterpillar tractor axle, and hardened and tempered them to 143 tons tensile strength"

Burt, then a grandfather, visited the Bonneville salt flats several times from 1962 onwards. In that year he set a then world record of 178.971 mph with his engine out to 51 cu.in. (85Occ). In 1963 a con-rod broke while he was traveling at an estimated 195mph. In 1966 it was displacing 920cc, when Burt, unhappy with some loss in top speed, completely rebuilt it again".


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

pmsl - lot of good humour on here :chuckle: 

Just to throw a real spanner in the works - we managed to run the 9.93 last year on the standard GTST gear box & standard RB25 crank - does that mean the RB25 crank is stronger than the RB26 crank :chuckle: 

Rob - you need to get someone to take a video of you walking the 1/4 strips out there stopping every 100 yds to confirm any variances in slope & also need to confirm the total length of the strip please :chuckle: 

As for tourettes Mick is one of the most passionate guys out there & really lives for his car which is great to see :smokin: 

I think Tourettes and drag racing are linked - as if it's a good run who doesnt swear like a trooper after launching the thing and passing the end ?

On the reverse when something breaks who doesnt swear like a trooper swearing blind that it's a waste of time & money & why the **** am i doing this when i could be flying around a track enjoying myself for a fraction of the cost :chuckle:


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Andy W said:


> the engine parts will come from his mates at Jun, :chuckle:
> 
> Or it'll be mapped for 700 mile use only



Andy.

Perfect:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

Mick


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## SR BEAST (Mar 6, 2005)

m6beg ..

We've got 3 GT-Rs revving to 11k rpm on stock nissan crankshafts over here 

two are in the 9s ..one in the 8s 


Couple of gt-rs 1000kms away from here run stock cranks too .. one Does 8.3 in the 1320 ... waaaaay faster than JUN R34 we've got here


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## chris singleton (Jul 20, 2005)

blue34 said:


> Oh and If anyone doubts this history of NZ ingenuity read the story of Burt Munro and his Indian Motorcycle:
> 
> "He made his own barrels, flywheels, pistons, cams and followers and lubrication system. In their final form he in effect hand-carved his con-rods from a Caterpillar tractor axle, and hardened and tempered them to 143 tons tensile strength"
> 
> Burt, then a grandfather, visited the Bonneville salt flats several times from 1962 onwards. In that year he set a then world record of 178.971 mph with his engine out to 51 cu.in. (85Occ). In 1963 a con-rod broke while he was traveling at an estimated 195mph. In 1966 it was displacing 920cc, when Burt, unhappy with some loss in top speed, completely rebuilt it again".



Wasn't there a film made about this chap, The Fastest Indian or something like that with Anthony Hopkins? He was basically ridiculed by all but then laid the smackdown on his handbuilt bucket


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## mattb (Feb 12, 2002)

I'll have to read the previous threads as this will be interesting. In my research I spoke to many Aus and NZ people tuning GTSTs and the story they gave me on tuning compared to what I was hearing from UK tuners over here was totally different. This was back in 02-03, after this research I pretty much gave up on tuning a GTST as it seemed I was going to be ripped off or the tuners I spoke too didn't really know what they were doing with an RB25. The first year I got told you shouldn't bother tuning an RB25 as anything over 300BHP was cost prohibitive and I should "just drop an RB26 in"....


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

I like threads like this where the truth comes out thanks to people from away from the UK.
The UK skyline scene is so full of un-truths people get told just to make money out of them its crazy.

The UK thing always has been since 2002 (and no doubt before)...

They get told something by a tuner= Fact.
Its not happened to them= Its impossible.
Paid the most money to a tuner= Knows the most about tuning themselves.


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## Dave_R1001 (Nov 24, 2002)

SteveN said:


> I love threads like this where the truth comes out.
> The UK skyline scene is so full of crap people get told just to make money out of them its crazy.
> 
> The UK thing always has been since 2002 (and no doubt before)...
> ...


Thats pretty much the reason I got out of mine! 

The prices demanded in the UK are just rediculous. These are 5-17 year old Nissans not brand new Porsches!!


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## mattb (Feb 12, 2002)

Not too bothered about the prices of cars as that's down to the market to dictate, I suppose. What bothers me is that you can talk to an Aus tuner about an RB25 tune, say for example you want circa 320bhp at the wheels, you get a significantly shorter required parts list than in the UK. Now I am not saying which tuner is right, what I am saying is that as a consumer I shouldn't be put in this situation where I am spending £1000s more on parts and labour when the southern hemisphere doesn't seem to be doing this, unless my tuner can give me a very good reason and justify it with credible evidence.


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## mattb (Feb 12, 2002)

Also, one thing to note. If I tune my 15 year old car and the crank breaks. Is this down to the stock item not being up to scratch or is it down to my crank being 15 years old and knackered before I started? Not a case of needing an expensive uprated part but a case of needing a new part :flame:


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

I guess a lot if it is simply down to knowledge - the guys in Oz and NZ have been dealing with these engines since the early nineties and know what works and what doesn't


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## benW (Feb 25, 2007)

'what I am saying is that as a consumer I shouldn't be put in this situation where I am spending £1000s more on parts and labour when the southern hemisphere doesn't seem to be doing this'

i completly agree, thats why i'm doing it myself with a bit of help from a few mates and my dad, if it goes wrong well then i'll do it again, but i'll still come in at a lot less than some tuners want (not all), and half the fun is doing it yourself. Its only an engine, there isn't a huge amount of difference between tuning an RB than any other engine, just find out the weak & strong points points of the engine and address them accordingly.

just my two pence worth (not that my views are worth 2p)


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## mattb (Feb 12, 2002)

wish I could mate. Unfortunately don't have the time, skills or equipment. The nearest I would come to that and I would recommend it to anyone. Find a damned good mechanic who you trust and who will do what you want, but still advise when he thinks it is warranted.

I spoke to a couple of tuning companies in Oz that pretty much offered to give me a shopping list of parts and advice on what to do when. All I needed was a mechanic to do the work. At the time the tuning companies I contacted wouldn't do the work with out adding in extra parts and charges or simply disagreed with the spec. After I gave up I found a damned good mechanic who would have done everything to my specs and was really interested. Unfortunately I lost interest by then  Oh and before anyone slates the mechanic, he worked on Lotus and Evo track cars most of the time, was an ex RAF mechanic with 20+ years experience. So not a grease monkey from a back street garage.

Anyway enough of my rants  I just got my car back from Knight Racer so time to take some pics :wavey:


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## benW (Feb 25, 2007)

Its the price of the parts over here which gets me most, i know they will be slightly dearer but some of them are more than double the price of the rest of the world, and thats not the tuners fault.

hows the car looking then, you had it resprayed.

R.I.P.S., whats the fastest time you've had out of one of your cars?


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

I think here in the UK we struggle to find a machine shop with the expertise to balance a engine properly. 
The only thing a full counter has over a prepped standard crank is that its a perfect match for heavy rods and pistons run at high RPM. 
This is done by bringing the counter weights in line directly opposite the cylinder bore.
However this also could be done by introducing heavy metal slugs to the standard crankshaft web.


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

The biggest drag events in Europe are ran at pod, the FIA and MSA stuff, top fuel etc.. im sure if there was a problem with the strip it wouldn't be used at all as the scrutineering for these kind of events is very strict..


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Do you have head winds we should maybe know about?
> 
> Lets take all of this as a bit of fun, I enjoy a good windup and this is the thread for it, so lets go, gimme your best!!
> 
> Rob


Dont need any head wind Rob. :thumbsup: 

There seems enough wind comming from NZ to do us all for a long time :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

ps Rugby should be good the weekend :bawling: :bawling: 


Mick


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## xaero1 (Feb 9, 2004)

LOL @ this thread


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

is it true that the air is actually thinner in NZ?


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## xaero1 (Feb 9, 2004)

No that's just the Ozone layer


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

and gravity is slightly lower due to a mountain on the other side of the planet?


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

T.F.S. said:


> and gravity is slightly lower due to a mountain on the other side of the planet?


Yep deffo mate.
That's why the cranks can rev so high. I might send mine to NZ get a bit of the air in it then REV the baby to 20000 rpm.

The best thing that came out of NZ is the Lamb shanks:chuckle: :chuckle: 


Not the wobbly cranksuke: uke: uke: 


Mick


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Yee harr!! Come to work this morning and you guys have been busy on the thread :bowdown1: 

So if I read correctly:

1) It is generally agreed that the pod really has no disadvantange to our NZ strips and it is in fact not uphill or outside dragstrip incline/decline guidelines.

R.I.P.S: 1, Mick: 0

2) It appears George ran a 1.42 60ft in a street GTR with a stock crank and box so there's no traction issue either Mick

R.I.P.S: 2, Mick: 0

3) It also seems to have been confirmed by others that 11k on a stock crank is common place and the car I know of, and obviously Shane knws it too, goes well beyond that runs low 8's on street tyres with a 1.7 60ft, now it doesn't matter how you work it out, thats some serious power:chuckle: 

R.I.P.S: 3, Mick: 0

4) Matt talks about the fact that these stock cranks are sometimes 15 years old and it might be knackered before we start?
Most of the cranks we use are in fact 19-20 years old and out of 160hp engines. Others talk about the factthat if we break a few parts trying these things out its not the end of the world, we have not had a failier of a single part ever in any engine wether it be a road, drag, track or drift engine so Mick I think its confirmed that what I've been saying is not "complete and utter shite talk" and you CHOSE to buy an aftermarket crank, you do not NEED one :chuckle: 

R.I.P.S: 4, Mick: 0

5) Mick, there is no wind comming from NZ mate, you supply plenty for the UK I'm sure, just remember, YOU made this wonderfull amusing thread worth having by very clearly stating I was talking a load of shite when in fact its seems quite clear the wind has blown the shite from your mouth back in your face :flame: 

R.I.P.S: 5, Mick: 0

6) Not interested in Rugby but you won our game though and I do like lamb shanks so I'll give you 1 point for completely changing the subject when obviously feeing a little deflated, well done Mick!!! :bowdown1: 

R.I.P.S: 5, Mick: 1


Next...................


7)


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## Adey (May 14, 2007)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> What does the scooby run at the pod? 12's?
> 
> Come on man, lets get real here, If your tracks are 'different' in England it might pay to let officials know and have them checked as there's been a few records claimed lately and it would be a shame if it were found they were not done on a legal dragstrip.
> 
> ...


Oh dear whats he said now!! 

Time for GTROC forum fireworks!!:chuckle:


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

You should go back and get some work done.
Playing on the com all day wont finish all them car's you know.

Wobbly :smokin: 


Mick


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Oh yeah Mick, what does your wifes scooby run at the pod? whats the mph too?


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## Adey (May 14, 2007)

Andy W said:


> the engine parts will come from his mates at Jun, :chuckle:
> 
> Or it'll be mapped for 700 mile use only





m6beg said:


> Big thank you to all my Freinds at Abbey. Tony, Mark, Sarah, Scott, Dano, Big Will, Little Will, Simon and all the gang.
> For re freshing and sorting all the Problems, that have accured during the last few months.
> THANK YOU VERY MUCH...
> 
> ...



http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/46704-lemon-dyno-today.html?highlight=jun+lemon+abbey+motorsport

Andy give it a rest mate!! 

This is nothing to do with Perfect Touch and their high quality of service and engineering, but I think Mick has forgot all the hard work put in by Abbey over the years.


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## Adey (May 14, 2007)

SR BEAST said:


> m6beg ..
> 
> We've got 3 GT-Rs revving to 11k rpm on stock nissan crankshafts over here
> 
> ...


Are they balanced or knife edged?


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## Adey (May 14, 2007)

SteveN said:


> I like threads like this where the truth comes out thanks to people from away from the UK.
> The UK skyline scene is so full of un-truths people get told just to make money out of them its crazy.
> 
> The UK thing always has been since 2002 (and no doubt before)...
> ...


Its called having more money than sense!:chuckle:


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Wendy was a bit pissed off actually. Had to abort the first run the car would only rev to 18000 rpm. She got the crank from a 1966 Trekka.:chuckle: :chuckle: 


Mick


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## Barrie (Jan 31, 2006)

To be honest , after what we ran at santa pod the other day at around 600hp on pump fuel 1.6bar boost - low 10's will be easily acheived here on standard crank/box etc etc - DCY CAR (georges ) wasnt even set up for drag its one of our track cars on rock hard suspension . consistantly backed them times up all day and would have hit 10.4 if he hadnt missed 4th gear and would have been in the final . but not bad for a quick trip out to just see what it would do .

Cars their with 200-400 more bhp and not hitting these times 

Ohh forgot to say george really knows his car and this is half of the battle - time in the car !

Barrie


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Barrie said:


> To be honest , after what we ran at santa pod the other day at around 600hp on pump fuel 1.6bar boost - low 10's will be easily acheived here on standard crank/box etc etc - DCY CAR (georges ) wasnt even set up for drag its one of our track cars on rock hard suspension . consistantly backed them times up all day and would have hit 10.4 if he hadnt missed 4th gear and would have been in the final . but not bad for a quick trip out to just see what it would do .
> 
> Cars their with 200-400 more bhp and not hitting these times
> 
> ...


George is a gent.

great car as well mate.

Still not yellow though   **** me i am glutting for punishment tonight

Mick


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

You guys make me laugh.

Kiss and make up

I think r.i.p should come over for a drag off with the lemon and the winner should kiss the other ones feet


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

I have never fallen out.

Rob is a sound fella. Not his fault NZ hasn't got a long enough flat straight to do a quarter mile.  

Mick


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Its all those rhinos that get in the way lol


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Re: tracks. If the UK strips are that bad, maybe they need to come over here, imagine how good the faster UK GTR boys would go on our "downhill, tailwind, 350 meter strips" :clap: Reece, look out!!:nervous:
> 
> 
> Rob



Is that the Reese from the High Octane dvds?


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Madden said:


> Its all those rhinos that get in the way lol


naaaa sheep mate with the big cranks

Mick


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## GTRSTILL (Jul 27, 2006)

Adey said:


> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/46704-lemon-dyno-today.html?highlight=jun+lemon+abbey+motorsport
> 
> Andy give it a rest mate!!
> 
> This is nothing to do with Perfect Touch and their high quality of service and engineering, but I think Mick has forgot all the hard work put in by Abbey over the years.


Like they did him favours and didnt charge him for the work... behave mate. Abbey are a BUSINESS, they charge MONEY for work they carry out.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Rob.

Serious now :chuckle: :chuckle: 

My car has made roughly about 980 atw at the minute what is that in NZ crank figures?

Just a straight question honest no fooking about.

Mick


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

After looking at the hemishperical currency convertions, 980UKwhp is roughly 1300NZhp at the crank.

At what revs??


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## Adey (May 14, 2007)

GTRSTILL said:


> Like they did him favours and didnt charge him for the work... behave mate. Abbey are a BUSINESS, they charge MONEY for work they carry out.


Yeah they are a business and yes they charged him money! But its a child mentality..

Mick says:

"Tom, oh you are my best friend in the whole wide world!"

After they have a fight in the playground...

"Johnny, you are better than Tom, you are the best friend I ever had"!!

:chuckle:

Its about being greatfull to those who have helped you in the past and acknowledging them and what they have done to help you.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

R32 Combat said:


> After looking at the hemispherical currency conversions, 980UKwhp is roughly 1300NZhp at the crank.
> 
> At what revs??



The revs were at 8900. i only have the Jun billet crank you see. cant rev it to much.

Mick


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## GTRSTILL (Jul 27, 2006)

Adey said:


> Yeah they are a business and yes they charged him money! But its a child mentality..
> 
> Mick says:
> 
> ...


I love the way you seperate the concept of "helping out" with charging for time and materials.....

Abbey are a business, its one and the same... this is not a relationship between brothers, its about customer supplier. Money is involved. Probably lots of money I would imagine.

I dont know the man but from what I can tell Mick pays for results and right now... Perfect Touch deliver..... results.


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## GTRSTILL (Jul 27, 2006)

PMSL.... Grateful..........LMFAO


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

8900 is plenty. You need revs to conpensate for CC. Hence larger engine revving lower than smaller engines. It's easy to make an engne to rev like hell. The Ford 1.25 Zetec car rev to 16000rpm, and the Rover 1.4 K series revved to 17000rpm before it literally exploded.(With intake mods) Didn't the BMW 1500cc F1 turbo engine have a stock crank, and that produced 1200hp. It's no big claim, its the weight of the rods and pistions that matter. The better the crank, the heavier the rods and pistons, and the more robust the whole assy will be. 

Well balanced cranks will ensure that bearings will last longer than stock cranks, and that will inturn ensure the whole assy lives longer.


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## GTRSTILL (Jul 27, 2006)

R32 Combat said:


> 8900 is plenty. You need revs to conpensate for CC. Hence larger engine revving lower than smaller engines. It's easy to make an engne to rev like hell. The Ford 1.25 Zetec car rev to 16000rpm, and the Rover 1.4 K series revved to 17000rpm before it literally exploded.(With intake mods) Didn't the BMW 1500cc F1 turbo engine have a stock crank, and that produced 1200hp. It's no big claim, its the weight of the rods and pistions that matter. The better the crank, the heavier the rods and pistons, and the more robust the whole assy will be.
> 
> Well balanced cranks will ensure that bearings will last longer than stock cranks, and that will inturn ensure the whole assy lives longer.


I am no engineer, but that sounds like common sense... follow that man.


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## frostmotorsport (Aug 10, 2007)

R32 Combat said:


> After looking at the hemishperical currency convertions, 980UKwhp is roughly 1300NZhp at the crank.
> 
> At what revs??


Hi all. I feel the need to make a couple of comments here - as an occasional engine builder and tuner (my main business is motorsport fabrication so I only dabble in engine management....) I've come to realise a few things....

1. measured horsepower - whether at the wheels or crank - is a very arbitrary thing. Unless 2 cars are measured on the same dyno using the same correction factors, you can't accurately compare their output!

2. BHP (or Kw) is a small part of the equation when it comes how fast your car will go down or round a track - the entire package has to be setup correctly - suspension, tyres, drivetrain, LSD's etc etc - additionally, intake air conditions are different for an engine on a dyno vs. the same engine doing a 1/4 mile vs the same engine going around a circuit.

3. Kiwi's are brilliant. If Burt Munro and Rob aren't enough to inspire you - look at John Britten and his bikes. Get the video and watch it - one of the greatest tragedies of our time is that he was taken from us waaaay too early. So in short, we rock! :squintdan 

4. This thread is brilliant!


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

Adey said:


> Yeah they are a business and yes they charged him money! But its a child mentality..
> 
> Mick says:
> 
> ...


Adey

I dont know you, but what i do know is that on here you come accross as a right dick.

Can you please tell me what the above has got to do with you. 

you better hope Mick does not find out who you are lol


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Agree 100% R32 Combat.

The new engine in the car has been fully balanced by Perfect Touch.

Revs so cleaner now. The car is a totally different machine.

I honestly expect great things from the Lemon.

I full faith in Tweenirob the man's a legend.

The car is so much faster. Scary faster at 1 bar on the street.

Mick


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

frostmotorsport

My comment was meant very 'tongue in cheek'

I've very aware the HP figs mean nothing on there own, its the whole package that adds up. But too many people seem to go on and on about hp this and hp that(KW to you metric guys)

Sure, its a nice thing to talk about, and loads of people get their cars dynoed to set up the engine after atfermarket parts are fitted. But everyone seems dead set on getting to the 1000hp mark and 'claiming' 1000hp when cars so often arn't even close. 

It makes me and many others chuckle..:chuckle: :chuckle:


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

frostmotorsport said:


> 3. Kiwi's are brilliant. If Burt Munro and Rob aren't enough to inspire you - look at John Britten and his bikes. Get the video and watch it - one of the greatest tragedies of our time is that he was taken from us waaaay too early. So in short, we rock! :squintdan
> 
> 4. This thread is brilliant!


If you Kiwi's are so much better that the guys in the Uk 

Why do you guys not build winning F1 CARS lol


----------



## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

what we need is an international show down of cars!

something like TOTB Arabia,but spread over a few different countries,like everyone selected races in the UK,then Dubai,then Aus/NZ,then USA and then the final in Japan or something?

and all cars do the racing,and then there can't be no talk about this and that being different as all cars have ran on the same day against each other?
how would that sound,put your car's and driving where you mouth is


----------



## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

Tommy F said:


> Adey
> 
> I dont know you, but what i do know is that on here you come accross as a right dick.



Tommy F,

look up the word "Irony"

:runaway: :runaway: :clap:


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Andy your right there.

Tweenirob has a dastek dyno its good shit.

He mapped the car ready for the Jap show at 4 am on the Sunday morning.
I was in the boot with Justin. The fooking Lemon nearly took off the front wheels were in the air scary shit IE transfer box fooked. I shit my self good god. What a feeling. honest to drive a 900+ car on the street its insane.

Rob said to me we need to go on the road now to check a few things. I said to him mate i have children an a wife. He said yea suppose so i have them as well better off at the pod. I sighed with delight. I was scared of the car first time in my life.

Mick


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

Time for some Kiwi come backs



T.F.S. said:


> is it true that the air is actually thinner in NZ?


Yes - It is primary due to the fact we have less a**eholes in NZ when compared to England the air is thinner due to the lack of Bull shite!


----------



## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

the man with no fear finally had some fear put into him,all he needed was a dose of the Lemon! lol


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

JapFreak786 said:


> the man with no fear finally had some fear put into him,all he needed was a dose of the Lemon! lol


Ohhhhh mate i shit my self.

Mick


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

xaero1 said:


> No that's just the Ozone layer


Actually we haven't got much of an Ozone layer left over NZ the last I heard. Primarily due to hot air and BS coming down from the Northernhemisphere!


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GavGTR said:


> Actually we haven't got much of an Ozone layer left over NZ the last I heard. Primarily due to hot air and BS coming down from the Northernhemisphere!


You never had one to start with

Mick


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

T.F.S. said:


> and gravity is slightly lower due to a mountain on the other side of the planet?


At least weve got a few - The closest one to England is in Scotland right?


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Now now. Lets not turn this into a anti NZ thread. Just because the British empire was once(and not very long ago) the greatest empire on the globe and industrialized the planet and the NZ folk grow some nice lamb, it doesn't mean one is better than the other.


----------



## frostmotorsport (Aug 10, 2007)

Tommy F said:


> If you Kiwi's are so much better that the guys in the Uk
> 
> Why do you guys not build winning F1 CARS lol


cos we're too busy racing them and winning - Hulme , McLaren etc etc.... :chairshot

plus there are a lot of Kiwi's in F1 teams and motorsport organisations in the UK including Prodrive.....


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

m6beg said:


> Yep deffo mate.
> That's why the cranks can rev so high. I might send mine to NZ get a bit of the air in it then REV the baby to 20000 rpm.
> 
> The best thing that came out of NZ is the Lamb shanks:chuckle: :chuckle:
> ...


Mad cow disease anyone?? How many out breaks in the last five years :bawling:


Retorts over and out!!!

Back to the techincal chitchat!


----------



## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

GavGTR said:


> Mad cow disease one?? How many out breaks in the last five years :bawling:


A lot less than certain other countries - just because you don't hear about it elsewhere doesn't mean it isn't happening ...

Phil


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

frostmotorsport said:


> cos we're too busy racing them and winning - Hulme , McLaren etc etc.... :chairshot
> 
> plus there are a lot of Kiwi's in F1 teams and motorsport organisations in the UK including Prodrive.....


The biggest name in UK motorsport.

Bruce Mclaren - A New Zealander - Born and breed - Who would have thought!


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

GavGTR said:


> Mad cow disease one?? How many out breaks in the last five years :bawling:
> 
> 
> Retorts over and out!!!
> ...


Have you got that foot and mouth disease??? 

Seems you are typing with your mouth and thinking with your foot.

Mick


----------



## nailsgtr600 (Aug 2, 2007)

im going to be here all night, CLASSIC THREAD!!!!


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

R.I.P.S: 5, Mick: 100.

Cool


Mick


----------



## frostmotorsport (Aug 10, 2007)

m6beg said:


> R.I.P.S: 5, Mick: 100.
> 
> Cool
> 
> ...


can you explain your quantum math you used there?????


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

RIPZ : RIP
Mick : 1,000,000,000rpm


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

no same as his 5/1

Haven't got time to explain i am sorting my crank out to rev. i thought putting it in a bath of cold water would make it rev higher. Well to around the 15000 rpm mark. Do you think that would work ???

Mick


----------



## frostmotorsport (Aug 10, 2007)

mate, I could get any crank you choose to rev to 20,000rpm! Now, if you want conrods and pistons on it - that's a WHOLE nuther story! Besides, we all know that if you want 1500hp, you need a kiwi-built gupta valve in your flux capacitor!!

But seriously now....


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Right serious for this one please.

I have forgot to thank RB motorsport for helping with the Lemons new engine.
Rod helped Tweenirob source the block in one day. I am sorry to RB for not saying anything before. Thank you very much RB motorsport and Keith Cowie.

Mick


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

A UK trumbledefuzer and a drop forged funkiline rod is all you need for a 20,000crank with 1kg piston/rod assys.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

frostmotorsport said:


> mate, I could get any crank you choose to rev to 20,000rpm! Now, if you want conrods and pistons on it - that's a WHOLE nuther story! Besides, we all know that if you want 1500hp, you need a kiwi-built gupta valve in your flux capacitor!!
> 
> But seriously now....


Lemon is sour enough mate bit of Kiwi would make it bland i recon don't you?

Mick


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Look at this people down hill Drug action in the southern hemisphere near NZ. Nice 4 meter drop

YouTube - GTR:700 3rd fastest GTR in the world Run


Mick


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

Hope that 8.2 run was backed up or Andy will have something to say


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Tommy F said:


> Hope that 8.2 run was backed up or Andy will have something to say


The down hill one you mean??


Mick


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

m6beg said:


> Look at this people down hill Drug action in NZ southern hemisphere. Nice 4 meter drop
> 
> YouTube - GTR:700 3rd fastest GTR in the world Run
> 
> ...


Mick - You've failed Geography! That took place in Australia!:thumbsup:

And you would think those guys would have enough land to find a flat patch.


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

Yes the down hill one its a 4 m drop from start to finish lol

but the rules say thats ok :chairshot :chairshot :chairshot


----------



## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

m6beg said:


> no same as his 5/1
> 
> Haven't got time to explain i am sorting my crank out to rev. i thought putting it in a bath of cold water would make it rev higher. Well to around the 15000 rpm mark. Do you think that would work ???
> 
> Mick


Cryogenics are commonly used in F1 and high end motorsport apparently for treating engine components.....

make sure you put some ice in that bath 

Simon


----------



## bkvj (Feb 13, 2006)

m6beg said:


> Look at this people down hill Drug action in NZ southern hemisphere. Nice 4 meter drop
> 
> YouTube - GTR:700 3rd fastest GTR in the world Run
> 
> ...


max of 1% drop or raise as it wont make difference. 

i respect both you guys...one spend a flipping fortune on a 2.7 monster, running high 9's, the other can do that spending pennies compared to the other...

whats the point of bashing NZ though, like UK is any good


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

Begs the question - why the hell can't the governing body of professional drag say a strip has to be dead flat! No up, no down flat as you like!

Save a lot of arguments


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

GavGTR said:


> Begs the question - why the hell can't the governing body of professional drag say a strip has to be dead flat! No up, no down flat as you like!
> 
> Save a lot of arguments


Spot on GavGTR

2 of the flatest places in the world and they build drag strips down a hill

Am i right in saying that Heat treatments went there to do the 7.5 record :flame:


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Street action is better. On the wangan.

Mick


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

bkvj

A rise or fall of 1% has to make a difference. Cars roll downhill but not uphill.

I rest my case.


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

look at this YouTube - VIP T.V - CLOSED DRAG TRACK DAY (4WD HKS WR BROKEN)



do you think this is flat ???


Mick


----------



## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

m6beg said:


> look at this YouTube - VIP T.V - CLOSED DRAG TRACK DAY (4WD HKS WR BROKEN)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


NOW YOU SEE IT *NOW YOU DONT*:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:


----------



## RH18 (Feb 23, 2007)

maybe the lemon should go to oz and run a 7-flat.:chuckle: no sweat!

that same strip i believe HKS could only manage a 7.9, what does that say about jap strips? 

all i seem to hear is a lot of moaning, i guess thats why things are going really slow here.


----------



## Rob B (Jun 9, 2006)

I always thought that if the strip went downhill, they compensated by making it a bit longer. Could be wrong though.

Rob.


----------



## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

bkvj said:


> max of 1% drop or raise as it wont make difference.
> 
> i respect both you guys...one spend a flipping fortune on a 2.7 monster, running high 9's, the other can do that spending pennies compared to the other...
> 
> whats the point of bashing NZ though, like UK is any good


Says it all, financially wise.


----------



## DRAGandDRIFT (Sep 20, 2006)

Great thread, 

Have to say tho NZ have some great engineers, and are very good at tuning GT-Rs.

I have to say Mick if you paid the same money to RIPS your car would be faster......a near 1000hp car that runs 9s......hmmmmmmm.

Our full weight R34 GT-R with 900hp runs consistant low 9s, 9.226 being its best to date, this is a 1600kg car.

Our 2 customers running 1200hp GT-Rs on normal cranks and 10,000rpm ran very low 9s on the weekend. (best time is 9.08 @ 255kmh) 
Although sendai is slightly down hill, it uses no VHT. So to be honest its pretty even when compaired to pod (being a full VHT prepped track)

Havind said that tho, maybe your car could go faster if you didnt hav to pack off at 300m...lol


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

DRAGandDRIFT, thanks, but I'm starting to feel a little uncomfortable now.

I wanted to give Mick a bit of a windup in fun but I don't want to be involved in being compared to other tuners prices or results.

We do what we do here because we love it, to be honest we don't make much from it but enough to stay open and enable us to continue to work on some real nice cars.

Things are starting to get more serious for us now with cars comming here expecting (and rightfully so) some pretty serious results and the budgets are increasing to enable us to custom build some pretty cool shit.

As always, in friendly debates like this, it comes back to each to their own, everybody get out there, have fun and spend as much as you are comfortable with or even more (if the wife doesn't know) and try to remember that every dyno is different, every engine is different, every car is different, every strip is different, and one should only really strive to improve on ones own past results and not really worry quite so much about what Joe bloggs somewhere else is doing or has done.

As long as we do top class work, charge a fair price for it, deliver exactly what the customer has asked for, if not a little more, then I'm sure my share of cars will continue to come here, thats all I'm after at the end of the day,

Best of luck to everyone, beat your own previous best and when you do, get a Mick fit going at the end of the strip, video it and post it so the world knows your damn happy about it!!!

Rob


----------



## DRAGandDRIFT (Sep 20, 2006)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> DRAGandDRIFT, thanks, but I'm starting to feel a little uncomfortable now.
> 
> I wanted to give Mick a bit of a windup in fun but I don't want to be involved in being compared to other tuners prices or results.
> 
> ...



Fair comment, will leave it at that, didnt want to make you feel uncomfortable, just mearly saying you have created some very nice cars and fast one too (NZ in general have some great engineers for the population size) 

Off to NZ next year to see a friend, so will try and get to a drag stip to see some action....may see you there.

Rick


----------



## jonn (Oct 7, 2006)

GavGTR said:


> Begs the question - why the hell can't the governing body of professional drag say a strip has to be dead flat! No up, no down flat as you like!
> 
> Save a lot of arguments



Why?? If the rules say it can vary +/- 4m then why bother trying to level it out?


----------



## jonn (Oct 7, 2006)

Tommy F said:


> Spot on GavGTR
> 
> 2 of the flatest places in the world and they build drag strips down a hill
> 
> Am i right in saying that Heat treatments went there to do the 7.5 record :flame:


lol......NZ......flat


----------



## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Haha yeah that NZ being flat comment made me quietly LOL. Clearly never been to this country.


----------



## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

jonn said:


> Why?? If the rules say it can vary +/- 4m then why bother trying to level it out?


I'm with you John, it doesn't matter what the rules are as long as everyone knows the rules and they are strictly enforced.

A 1% varience on a level surface seems a fair allowance, maybe it has something to do with the curvature of the earth?, anyone got time to work out the height at the tip of the convex on a 400 meter length of "dead flat" land? (probably not quite the correct terms but you know what I mean)

Rob


----------



## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

Lith said:


> Haha yeah that NZ being flat comment made me quietly LOL. Clearly never been to this country.


Quietly Lol ?


----------



## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Best of luck to everyone, beat your own previous best and when you do, get a Mick fit going at the end of the strip, video it and post it so the world knows your damn happy about it!!!
> 
> Rob


Well said Rob, people do get a little bit serious and hopefully I will have a video clip like that one sometime soon. You have got to love it or why on earth would we be doing it. Uphill, downhill who cares if you take your car back to the same track , then improve on previous times that itself warrants a "Mick Fit"

Smokey :smokin:


----------



## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

GavGTR said:


> At least weve got a few - The closest one to England is in Scotland right?


didnt mean to give out the wrong impression lol, was just cracking jokes in this light hearted thread:chuckle: 

actually i really like RIPS approach to tuning the RB26, very refreshing to say the least


----------



## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

If it makes no difference that a drag strip runs down hill, then it would be good to see how well some cars would run going back up the other way!!!!!


----------



## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Dame you lot where busy last night this thread is massive now. Some good jokes and alot of banter quality.


----------



## Rick C (May 24, 2005)

m6beg said:


> look at this YouTube - VIP T.V - CLOSED DRAG TRACK DAY (4WD HKS WR BROKEN)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I went to this track about 8 months ago, and it truely is a world-class facility. Forget the gradient: it drops downhill after the finish line, but the racing surface is pretty level.

It's not just the GTRs that go quick there, the top fuel cars were running better than the European ones too. Speaking to one of the drivers, an Ex-pat who now races top fuel in Aus, he says that the availability of parts is better for both american and Jap components, mainly because the car-culture means more people are into drag racing. A population of 17 million produces as many drag racing teams as the whole of Europe. 

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/rick01/348794126/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/135/348794126_d9e168da4e.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Skyline" /></a>

I hope you like my picture!


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## jonn (Oct 7, 2006)

m6beg said:


> look at this YouTube - VIP T.V - CLOSED DRAG TRACK DAY (4WD HKS WR BROKEN)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No it's not flat. But you can't tell if the camera is pointing up hill or down can you? Maybe it's up hill and then levels out or vice versa.


----------



## RH18 (Feb 23, 2007)

sorry, but can we get back to why we cant have stock cranks rev high with big hp? i am genuinely interested in micks version in why it is a "load of shite". a few ppl here and im sure elsewhere have PROVEN it. 
please try not to detract from the discussion if you or anyone else can't answer it. (mods??)

mite as well lock the thread if cant be answered, we've all heard the rest about drag strips before. please dont change the subject, just MAN up and answer the fella if you can.

thanks.


----------



## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

from what i have read the high power stock crank has been done and dusted, unless we consider RIPS to be a liar but i see no reason for him to do that...there is no profit in it for him


saying we all need a crank made out of unobtainum for anything over 600bhp....now there is profit in that eh


----------



## jonn (Oct 7, 2006)

2.6l , No Nos = New Salon Record Holder! - Skylines Australia

A good example of what a stock crank can do.


----------



## bkvj (Feb 13, 2006)

R32 Combat said:


> bkvj
> 
> A rise or fall of 1% has to make a difference. Cars roll downhill but not uphill.
> 
> I rest my case.


why the hell do they make a drag strip with 1% max rise/fall then 

downhill i may understand but uphill is just silly.

i agree with gavGTR. make it flat, no uphil/downhill sections, no bullshit.


----------



## Dave_R1001 (Nov 24, 2002)

RH18 said:


> i am genuinely interested in micks version in why it is a "load of shite"


I think the fact there has been no reply apart from some poor attempts at humour is enough to draw your own conclusions from


----------



## Rick C (May 24, 2005)

bkvj said:


> why the hell do they make a drag strip with 1% max rise/fall then
> 
> downhill i may understand but uphill is just silly.
> 
> i agree with gavGTR. make it flat, no uphil/downhill sections, no bullshit.


Drag racing didn't used to have timing systems at all. It used to just be first to the finish was the winner and that was all that mattered. 

There was never any bullshit about fractions of a second... if you wanted to be faster than someone you used to have to agree to meet up and race. It didn't really matter then in that case if you were racing on tarmac or concrete, ice or dirt. Uphill or downhill, whatever. You used to have to beat the guy in the other lane.

*fires up model A Ford*

*does burnout in patch of bleach*


----------



## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

Rick C said:


> Drag racing didn't used to have timing systems at all. It used to just be first to the finish was the winner and that was all that mattered.
> 
> There was never any bullshit about fractions of a second... if you wanted to be faster than someone you used to have to agree to meet up and race. It didn't really matter then in that case if you were racing on tarmac or concrete, ice or dirt. Uphill or downhill, whatever. You used to have to beat the guy in the other lane.
> 
> ...



for those 10 seconds or less....im free:chuckle:


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

RH18 said:


> sorry, but can we get back to why we cant have stock cranks rev high with big hp? i am genuinely interested in micks version in why it is a "load of shite". a few ppl here and im sure elsewhere have PROVEN it.
> please try not to detract from the discussion if you or anyone else can't answer it. (mods??)
> 
> mite as well lock the thread if cant be answered, we've all heard the rest about drag strips before. please dont change the subject, just MAN up and answer the fella if you can.
> ...


Agree - Lets see some more arguments for and against stock cranks and surrounding components. RIPS have so far come to the party with examples (although a bit more data would be good) only to be met by slander from a lemon. I would like to see counter arguments not slander!


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Stock cranks can take high rpm and high hp. Thats easy. What isn't so easy is to make an engine durable enough to be able to be driven flat out for more than 1/4 mile at a time.

Look at the work on the Veron to make a high hp car that can be driven hard for 50,000 miles and not fail mechanically.

The Rolls Royce V8 engine gets run at full power for 5 hours before it's put into the car. This is the difference between running the risk of breaking an engine with a stock crank and making a purpose made crank for your particular application.

This is why the whole 'stock crank' thing is a crock of shite. It just means nothing.

It's like saying 'my cars got 700hp' but it will only produce it for 1 hour before its knackered.

Andy Barnes Fuujin engine last very well between rebuilds. I suspect a car with a stock crank could not be used for so long between rebuilds.

I've made WRC crankshafts for the Mitsi Evo and the Toyota Celica. Why don't they you stock shafts? They only pruduce 300hp.

Think about things logically, don't just say stuff without being able to explain yourself.


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

R32 Combat said:


> Stock cranks can take high rpm and high hp. Thats easy. What isn't so easy is to make an engine durable enough to be able to be driven flat out for more than 1/4 mile at a time.
> 
> Look at the work on the Veron to make a high hp car that can be driven hard for 50,000 miles and not fail mechanically.
> 
> ...


So the centre point to this peice is - High Horse and RPM is acheivable on a stock crank but the Engine longevity becomes a real issue as the engine is bound to let go.

The question is then - How do you build longevity into your engine running a stock crank with over 600 bhp. I only ask this question becuase it appears has been done already and the answer would be readily available. I think this question is aimmed at RIPS primarily - but if anyone else has a view then go for it.

I heard once that out right HP (Within reasonable limits) doesn't break an engine - High RPM does. Surely limiting Revs to 7000-8000 RPM would go some way extending stock crack life expectancy as well. But I'm sure there is more that can be done to help a stock crank survive?


----------



## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

IMO a given engine will take more power lower in the rev range than it would at higher RPM's

ie [email protected] is far more gentle on the crank than [email protected]?

agree/disagree?


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Indeed, hp will very seldom break a crank, virbation will.

More revs, more vibration. 

More hp, more torque on the crankshaft.

The rb26 is a short stroke engine, the RB30 is square. Square engines have a better rod ratio and are a better all round engine.

Short stroke engines revs better. An F1 engine has a stroke of approx 40mm and a bore or 98. This keeps the piston speed down and help with reliability. 

Work out the force exerted on the conrod bolts at 12000rpm on a crank with a stroke of 86mm with a piston and rod bolted onto it.

High rpm cranks are roller bearing cranks. Ask yourself why this is? If you understand that a plain bearing crank hydroplanes on oil, you will know it always runs with a slight bending force on it. A roller bearing crank runs true, and has no bending force on it. Why is the Honda S2000 engine a roller crank? High RPM's are reliability..

You really can't argue with engineering facts.

It all comes down to reliability again.


----------



## mattb (Feb 12, 2002)

There is also the question of what do you want the car to do?

If you want a drag car that is always ringing the last HP out of the engine when used you build an engine differently to a 700hp fast road track car which will, for most of the time, not be running on the limits of the engine. So in these two examples "building for reliability" means two completely different things.


----------



## tim at svs (Jun 29, 2001)

*Interesting*

Glad to see everyone agrees to disagree. Regarding these highly important last comments, why has no-one considered the matter of crankshaft harmonics ? I mean the balancer on the front end of the crank. Its reasonable to assume that an improved harmonic balancer will also improve all aspects of the 'tune up' ?
In USA, I think I am right in saying that any car running in an NHRA event capable of running 10second quarters or less are required to have an approved crank damper eg ATI racing etc. Yet it seems to me very few people here in the UK bother with them. What goes down down under ? Do you use them ?


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Jun recommend the HKS damper pulley for use with the 2.7 stroker kit - I followed their advice, my rev limiter is set to 8750 though as I figure that leaves a margin of safety. 

Another factor though is keeping an oil supply to the bearings at high revs. The higher the revs particularly with uprated oil pumps the more oil the pump will flow.

Is it not possible the higher the revs the more likely the sump could end up being drained before the oil can flow back down, leading to bearing/crank failure regardless of the type of crank?

Even with a sump extension this worries me on track/drag days with G forces also displacing oil at high revs.. 

not relevant I know but oil surge and revs sounded the death knell to 
my old 240z main bearings earlier this year at Silverstone


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Good points above.
All I can do, and all any tuner can do is go by previous experience, gut feeling and within the budget, build a motor to best suit the customers requirements.
Let me be open and honest about what I have found so far:

Firstly, our primary customer is 10 second street cars, not big budget, high powered 8 and 9 second GTR's. (at this stage anyway)
About 5 years ago I started off with a very very low budget and a normal complete 4wd skyline.
I believe I designed and built the first 'properly done' 4wd RB30 and left all of the internals of the engine totally stock as initially it was an experiment.
I got an old 1987 300,000km RB30 (non turbo) bottom end from a taxi, put rings and bearings in it only, no new pistons or rods, no new rod bolts, no oil squirters, stock oil pump and drive, stock unmodified crank, everything exactly as it was, just rings and bearings only.
I then got a R32 RB25de head (non turbo) replaced the stem seals only and surfaced it. yes it still had stock old N/A springs and cams. 
I used a stock R32 RB20det exhaust manifold (you all know how SHIT!!!!!! they are) with a hybrid T3/T4 turbo and 3 inch exhaust.
I adapted a GTR plenim to the RB25 manifold, had some 550cc injectors, a fuel pump, tunable ecu, single fogger shot of NOS and went racing for fun.
We are talking about a 3k pound engine here and a totally road legal car on street tyres.

Within about 4 meetings we got into the 10's within a few more we were running low 10's and breaking boxes left right and center (3rd only).

During this time we changed the oil in the motor only.
I won 2 big NZ drag championships and many other high profile NZ drag events in the pro street 4wd division up against anyone no matter their budget, I entered 14 meetings all in a row and won the lot, and every single time I took that car to the strip I won whatever it was I entered, never a 2nd place.

We kept taking power out of the motor to make the boxes live and the best we did on pump gas in street trim on street tyres with a stock box, stock suspension, stock axles and diffs etc was a 10.21 @ 134mph. With a decent box I am 100% confident it would have run high 9's.

I assure you I thrashed the living shit out of that car, we're talking huge hours of street, drags, burnouts etc and in total we did about 50,000km in it before it went to the current owner.
It is still going strong now and still untouched, it has had oil changes and maybe a couple of sets of plugs, thats it.

Now anyone with some basic knowledge will know we had to have been making some reasonable power to be running 10.20 in a heavy street skyline, and with a 3k pound engine in an otherwise stock car thats pretty good going I think, and to have it 100% reliable engine wise is also pretty damn good.

Since then we've run big numbers of 2wd and 4wd RB30's, all with stock cranks, some revving up to 8500rpm, some with big shots of NOS, some with race petrol, some with stock rods and pistons, some with forged pistons and rods but always with a stock crank and not one has ever given trouble and these have all been reliable engines doing big miles in varied environments.
We commonly get 600-700whp and usually run them to 7500-8000rpm.

If we'd ever run a bearing, or cracked a crank or broken a crank or had anything happen then I'd be thinking of replacing the cranks.
Admittedly, I havn't personally really pushed a stock crank hard (not yet anyway but give me a couple of weeks, we have a motor going together now specificly to really test the stock crank at higher outputs and higher rpm)
but I do know of 1 guy in particular, that others here know of too, that runs at least 12000rpm, 1400hp and low 8's on street tyres, he has NEVER had a probelm with a stock crank, everything else has previously failed but never the crank.
He intends to run a stock RB30 crank (with minor mods) in one of our new billet mains RB30 4wd blocks and pull at least 11,000rpm and big power. He wouldn't risk other big $$ components doing that unless he was pretty confident.

Based on my own experience and with the experience of guys like him I have come to the conclusion that untill I run a bearing, crack one or have any other issues, I'm sticking with stock cranks unless the customer specificly wants forged.

Just my 2c worth,

Rob


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## max1 (Feb 24, 2002)

stock 2.6 crank 926hp without nos , with nos 760ftllb @6000 rpm ,9.3 second 1/4 car has run most of this season on stock crank rev to 9200 max 20+runs in the nines countless tens 
i believe it is more to do with oil feeds ,pressures,and harmonics.nuff said


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Good reading Rob.

So Reece who you refered to earlier is the guy on the High Octane dvds? He was mainly using bolt on parts to his 33 last time I heard!?


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

Fair play to you. Would you say though that the same would apply to the 2.6 crank? and that oil supply is not a factor in all this - ie it gets back down into the sump as quick as its pumped out, or is there any difference in that respect between the RB30 and RB26? I know that its common here to restrict oil flow to the top of the engine for this reason.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

TREG said:


> Good reading Rob.
> 
> So Reece who you refered to earlier is the guy on the High Octane dvds? He was mainly using bolt on parts to his 33 last time I heard!?


Same guy but the car I was meaning the faster UK boys could come and sort out on our "downhill 350 meter long strips" is reeces world record 7.5 second GTR not his old blue 33.

Blue 34: Alot of guys don't actually really think about whats going on with the oil and other things in their engine and presume that if they are flooding the rocker covers and pumping lots of oil into the catch tank that restricting the oil to the head is the answer, all I'm prepared to say on the subject is, those guys who do that alone will usually still have troubles.

Rob


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## Barrie (Jan 31, 2006)

funny thread ! lol 

going back to the downhill / uphill strips 

dont have a clue abroad because weve never been to them strips

but for england .....in our blue skyline - same driver same boost , differant days 

Elvington - ran a series of 10.09's 10.1'2 and 10.2's 
york dragway - best 10.06 and again lots of 10.1's and 10.2's 
santa pod - differant driver so cant compare 

silver time attack track r32 ran - 
elvinton 10.56 
york dragway 10.5's 
santa pod 10.51 - a series of them ! 

so the 3 differant strips here - its safe to say they are all identical , and i honestly know we cant get any more out of these 2 cars we have run , because of the 6ft times all 1.5's and 1.4's


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

how the hell does george get a 1.4 60ft from the track setup Silver GTR? LOL

What tyres and pressure? 

Has he applied for proclass next year?


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## blue34 (Jul 28, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Blue 34: Alot of guys don't actually really think about whats going on with the oil and other things in their engine and presume that if they are flooding the rocker covers and pumping lots of oil into the catch tank that restricting the oil to the head is the answer, all I'm prepared to say on the subject is, those guys who do that alone will usually still have troubles.
> 
> Rob


Fortunately not having any probs like that - a lot of work was done on my (early 32) block and head - tuners quite rightly don't advertise all their trade secrets on forums. 588atw at 1.4bar. We'll be in touch about one of your your trunk (boot) fuel setups soon though as my setup from the previous engine spec is at it's limit.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Adam Kindness said:


> how the hell does george get a 1.4 60ft from the track setup Silver GTR? LOL
> 
> What tyres and pressure?
> 
> Has he applied for proclass next year?


I really think that George has got the balance of the driver and the power of the car perfect.


Mick


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

1.4's were very common for us in our road skyline on DOT tyres and even Lee's UK 001 ran 1.4's on cold wet DOT tyres (no burnout and on a track just after it was raining)
You can see in the pix I have the car is actually still covered in rain just before the run and still covered in rain when the 'after the 10' run was done ans I couldn't do a burnout as we hadn't fitted a 2wd swtich/controller, just rolled through the water trap, rolled up to the start line and ran 1.4's.

Rob


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## Adey (May 14, 2007)

GavGTR said:


> So the centre point to this peice is - High Horse and RPM is acheivable on a stock crank but the Engine longevity becomes a real issue as the engine is bound to let go.
> 
> The question is then - How do you build longevity into your engine running a stock crank with over 600 bhp. I only ask this question becuase it appears has been done already and the answer would be readily available. I think this question is aimmed at RIPS primarily - but if anyone else has a view then go for it.
> 
> I heard once that out right HP (Within reasonable limits) doesn't break an engine - High RPM does. Surely limiting Revs to 7000-8000 RPM would go some way extending stock crack life expectancy as well. But I'm sure there is more that can be done to help a stock crank survive?


Fully balancing the bottom assembly to reduce and minimise any harmonic vibrations and smoothing out any potential stress points. Another thing you can do is to knife edge, this will help it to cut through the oil and air faster, every little will help to fully optimise a stock crank. 

As the RB is a straight 6 engine, along with a V12 its one of the smoothest engines available interms of inherent engine vibrations, its does not suffer from free forces or free moments. A straight 4 or a V8 does suffer from vibrations.

BTW, does the Mines stage II engine not run a stock crank in a balanced form? that car revs to 10k.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Same guy but the car I was meaning the faster UK boys could come and sort out on our "downhill 350 meter long strips" is reeces world record 7.5 second GTR not his old blue 33.
> 
> 
> Rob



Any footage of that new car mate??
Before I got my Gtr, I watched that 1st High Octane dvd a few 
times to try and work out what Reece had done to his car and if it was a good thing to do!

Would be good to see some more modern footage Please:wavey:


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

I havent 1/4miles mine since it was standard (decat)... think that was a 1.8 60ft at 12.6 at 114 or somthing. Clutch slipping in 2nd haha and just legal nankangs

Rob - Have you seen the wee plug i gave you guys on my site? VVV

Still havent got round to upping the fueling yet. Still ironing out all the flaws in the cars before cranking up the boooost.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

do a quick search on here, there's been vids posted plenty of times or jump on you tube

Rob


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## VEILSIDE GTR (Jul 2, 2007)

*stock crank!*



R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Sorry, you need to know what has happened to get this thread started, here's some of it:
> 
> M6beg: What a load of Shite i am reading here.
> 
> ...



Hi Rob,

Just to back your argument on the stock crank, we have got 2 GTRs at MIJ PERFORMANCE, UK. An R32 and an R34. 
They both have got stock cranks. The R34 has run a 10.8 second on the Japshow 2007 and that was on RER WHEEL DRIVE AND STOCK GEARBOX and Im sure few people on this forum have seen that!! 
You can check that on JapShow - Japanese Performance Car Event OR YouTube - Broadcast Yourself..

I will be looking forward to lining it up against M6BEGs R33 soon and prove that stock cranks can actually do the job, in other words KICK ASS!! 
So dont worry mate, you dont need to come to UK or Dubai. I will do the job on your behalf. We have got the R34 here and a sub 9 sec R32 in Dubai which can take care of people who talk too much there as well. 

Keep in touch mate and good luck to all the GTRs running stock cranks.:bowdown1: 

Regards, Hom.


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## GeorgeGTR (Feb 16, 2006)

max1 said:


> i believe it is more to do with oil feeds ,pressures,and harmonics.nuff said


Thats sounds about right to me. I have ran my car all year reving upto 8400 (when needed  ) On still the standard crank. The car has been all over this year and has done plenty of work, although a few times it was more of 'just a nice run out'

It's a really good topic this and I would be interested to hear if anyone before has ever tested a RB26 crank to it's max! Personally looking at what RIPS has put I don't see why they carn't run upto 1000.


Mick, 
Cheers buddy  TBH I think your right, it seems whenever I go out in that car we run well! Carn't put my finger on it but I think you hit the nail on the head with that :bowdown1:


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## godzilla-1 (Jan 11, 2007)

*cranks*

a couple of questions

are the rb30 cranks stronger than the rb26s or are they the same

what is a suggested safe rev limit for a standard crank in a standard un-modified bottom end

at what stage is it advisable to fit a crank dampener if at all.
is it advisable for when you are going over certain revs or is it more for when you are achieving over a certain amount of power

interested in uk and overseas thoughts on this


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## Barrie (Jan 31, 2006)

m6beg said:


> I really think that George has got the balance of the driver and the power of the car perfect.
> 
> 
> Mick



Your right mick - it s a good reliable power , good all round power to have if built correctly and george is very used to the car .

Its never going to be the fastest with 630 hp but can still compete with a reasonable budget and perfect for track which it what it is "a track car".

we dont see any reason why it wont hold up all next season too 

Barrie


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## nozza1 (Jan 13, 2007)

Couldn't be asked to read from the start of the thread, but l got a jist of what this thread is all about, so was wondering to what conclusion you guys have come to....... as to....... who's is bigger!! :chuckle: 

Okaayy then!!.....and now that we have sorted that out, can we get back to appreciating the machine that is the..... SKYLINE GTR!! thankyou people.:smokin: :GrowUp:


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

nozza do one.

And give Rob and i a reply when you have finished reading.

Thank you very much.:smokin: :smokin: :smokin: 


Mick


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## nozza1 (Jan 13, 2007)

:nervous: :blahblah:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Funny this thread has popped up again and since my last post on this thread we have proven our stock crank therory.

During testing we ran to 9200rpm and over 2 bar + 250hp of NOS.
On 1.7 bar, no NOS, on fully treaded street tyres the car ran 9.0 @ 152mph.
We are now pretty sure we have the trans sorted and we should be able to start to wind some power into it (we had over 400hp to spare at 9.0 @ 152)

I'm sure mid 8s in full street trim on street tyres with a totally stock crank will be do-able.

Rob


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Funny this thread has popped up again and since my last post on this thread we have proven our stock crank therory.
> 
> During testing we ran to 9200rpm and over 2 bar + 250hp of NOS.
> On 1.7 bar, no NOS, on fully treaded street tyres the car ran 9.0 @ 152mph.
> ...



Ahhhhhh so you are cheating then Rob:runaway: :runaway: :runaway: :runaway: 

Mick


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## max1 (Feb 24, 2002)

jus under 1000hp stock crank and that is all i have used stock all the way for last three years [email protected] last year and looking to go faster this year .still 2.6 .last crank i bought was from abbey second hand last spring and still in there after all last season drag racing .never seen a broken crank .fully street legal and driven on the road 1500kg+


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Im far too lazy to read this entire thread, but I got to page 3 and saw this,
And I do love a good shit slinging match......


> There seems enough wind comming from NZ to do us all for a long time


Interestingly enough, the highest number of immigrants migrating to NZ are still POMS....
Its bad enough that half of South Africa have migrated to the North Shore in Auckland , but we still seem to attract an incredibly high number of Poms ....
Is it because you let 1/3 of India migrate to London and you dont like feeling like a foreigner in your own country?

We have countless little sayings in refernce to POMS
How do you know when a plane full of POMS has landed at the airport ?
All the engines stopped ages ago but the whining continues.....


Fire back guys , Im up to it ....


Anyone driven a Zcar mini yet ?


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

GT-R Glenn said:


> We have countless little sayings in refernce to POMS
> How do you know when a plane full of POMS has landed at the airport ?
> All the engines stopped ages ago but the whining continues.....


it's funny cos it's true  :chuckle: :chuckle:


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## GTR R34 (Oct 2, 2002)

blue34 said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> I think the truth is in New Zealand there is a history of competing with your skill and ingenuity as opposed to your wallets. In the case of Skylines this coupled with a bigger supply of, for example RB30's and a "can do" outlook, where maybe trashing the odd RB30 to find out if something works isn't too expensive. Take this "approach" and add a modern well equipped workshop and the results are no suprise to me.
> 
> ...


I have seen the movie world fastest indian about a burt munro.
Anyone remember john britten?


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Fire back guys , Im up to it ....


LOL i'll leave that to the Aussie's , but i'm sure both pepole and the 4 million sheep that live in NZ are used to that now


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

LOL 

4 million ?
Did we lose some ?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Andy W said:


> i'm sure both pepole and the 4 million sheep that live in NZ are used to that now



Your way off Andy, with me and Glen there is now 4 people and well over 6 million sheep in NZ, needless to say we bbq on a regular basis, isn't that right Glen? :thumbsup:


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

so your a bit like the Welsh then.... you like sheep and have a funny accent :chuckle:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Yeah but I'm not bovered right, do I look bovered? not bovered me. :squintdan 

I do believe I can say a word that starts with 'T' without it sounding like a word starting with 'F' Know what I mean, "Fink so" he says, or you not bovered eiva?

Strange a lowly kiwi bloke can speak your queens english better than most of you lot do, all right? :wavey: 

Whaah ha ah ah bring it!!!!, I love a good wind up!!!


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

lowly ? there's only four of you :chuckle: :chuckle:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Andy W said:


> lowly ? there's only four of you :chuckle: :chuckle:


I'm at the bottom of the heap mate, I get all the worn out gumboots and leftover old ewe's Glen's had his way with


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Man I thought there was like 60,000,000 sheep ....
pftttt
oh eye mun lets go doughn rovers foranuva pint, eh oh put the fire (heater) on ....
Buk horme mun, 
Interestingly enough you only need to drive 200 k in Pomland to come across a completely different language than the one you had just got used too.

Can people other than in yorkshire , pronounce "th" ??


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Interestingly enough you only need to drive 200 k in Pomland to come across a completely different language than the one you had just got used too.


LOL your not wrong there, near me its Polish, in London its Jamaican, Birmingham its Farsi ......


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## TJB (Nov 23, 2007)

*To Rob @ R.I.P.S and Glenn !*

Bad news guys....5 more poms moving to N.Z this year

Good news.... We are from Yorkshire so we speak properly...we like lamb....
and we are bringing an R32 with us !! 
The only whinging an whining will be from my missus when she finds out how much i'm gonna spend on a RB 30 from Robs place!!!!!


P.S we'll be there early December.........put the kettle on...:smokin: 

Lee.


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## miragev (Apr 11, 2007)

Simonh said:


> it's funny cos it's true  :chuckle: :chuckle:


+1:wavey:


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

I had the misfortune to work with a Kiwi traveller! What a scruffy dirty bastard!! He did not know what a bathroom was as his personal hygiene was terrible!:chuckle:


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

> Bad news guys....5 more poms moving to N.Z this year


Thats brilliant news, usually about 20,000 whining poms come over every year....

Ok Ill book the kettle, 
Earl Grey I presume ?


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

it does seem to be the 'in' thing to do at the moment.... moving to NZ, or Aus


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

GT-R Glenn said:


> Thats brilliant news, usually about 20,000 whining poms come over every year....


Only 20,000 ? That probably still won't compensate for all the Kiwis that live and work over here in the UK.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Interestingly enough, It appears that the Poms are attempting to make it hard for Kiwis to get work permits /visa's to work in the UK.
For a long time it has been pretty much where a lot of Kiwi's wanting to do their OE are based.
It would be a shame if the POms ****ed it up for us .....

I blame Margaret Thatcher ....


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