# 2011 GTR - Extended service intervals!!



## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

As per my other thread, I saw Tony from Middlehurst today.

He told me they had today received notice from Nissan Europe that the 2011 car had vastly more palatable service intervals:

12 months or every 9k

Tranny and Gearbox oil - 36 months or every 27k

I was also told that the reverse cameras can be fitted to 2010 cars immediately (£650 I believe) and can also be fitted to the 59 nav cars shortly once a software patch is released.

Finally, I was told that (to date) all warranty claims have been accepted on any tranny failures even if modified, so long as car hasn't been "abused".

D


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Awesome news


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

So why not retrospective?


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## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

Good news. Thanks for posting.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

I want to know more than ever now what the differences are in engine and transmission components that allow the changes.....if there are none we need to hit Nissan en mass to to take them to task!


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

That has massively bolstered my "business case" for switching and goes some way to explaining the withdrawal of the concierge service from buyers of the 2011 model. I am feeling quite smug about making the change now


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

Really have to see this being applied retrospectively? The service intervals are really the main downside to ownership of older models

Cannot see any reason why if mechanically identical this cannot be done or at least confirmation from Nissan that servicing the car to the new schedule will not be a warranty issue.

Might even firm up residuals!


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

They have had a similar schedule in Japan on the old model.

Other manufacturers have loosened the service intervals on new models, but rarely from what I've seen have done it retrospectively on the old ones.

I don't begrudge changing the engine oil every 2000-3000 miles as the present schedule does, but for a road car, changing the gear oil after 9000 miles when it has only been over 100C once, and often doesn't make 90C is crazy.


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

I can definitely see the merits of engine oil changes and to be honest would have changed gearbox at 18,000mls anyway as run in debris can cause most of the long term wear damage but beyond initial changes I believe gearbox and differential oil changes are excessive if road driving only, would have been great if Nissan had used some of those sensors to develop an intelligent service akin to that on BMW's


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

I wonder if I followed the 2011 regime, if I'd subsequently see a warranty refusal.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

sumo69 said:


> Tranny and Gearbox oil - 36 months or every 27k
> 
> D


Any mention David as to the temp limit for tranny oil changing? Is it still 120 degrees I wonder?


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> I wonder if I followed the 2011 regime, if I'd subsequently see a warranty refusal.


Naa. They'd be laughed out of court!


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

AndyE14 said:


> That has massively bolstered my "business case" for switching and goes some way to explaining the withdrawal of the concierge service from buyers of the 2011 model. I am feeling quite smug about making the change now


I'm not sure the saving on your service is going to be anything close the the true cost of switching from an MY09 to a MY11 car!! I'd have to find £25,000!

And isn't it just amazing that Nissan haven't bothered to advertise this or even tell those that are due to collect their cars next month!?


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

The info was only issued today - I had it from the horses mouth (so to speak) and just happened to ask the right question at the right time!

He said it wasn't going to be applied retrospectively - perhaps the R35 reps can actually come to the party on this?

Andy - apparently 120 is still the threshold for tranny oil.

D


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

waltong said:


> I'm not sure the saving on your service is going to be anything close the the true cost of switching from an MY09 to a MY11 car!! I'd have to find £25,000!
> 
> And isn't it just amazing that Nissan haven't bothered to advertise this or even tell those that are due to collect their cars next month!?


The latter point is true. 

The headline cost of my change was £18500, less the saving of tax for a year, getting new tyres, saving the cost of a 12 month service, 12 months additional warranty (god knows that will cost if and when available) so it all nudges down the effective cost of change I think. It would have been way less tempting at any other than the 1 year point given the "contribution" coming from the tax and service cost saving.

I wouldn't say it makes complete sense financially but it does take a big bite out of the effective cost of change nudging it down closer to the £10k mark, when you look at the service cost saving over a 3 year period.

On the flipside my insurance will rise by 50%  which I didn't expect.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

sumo69 said:


> The info was only issued today - I had it from the horses mouth (so to speak) and just happened to ask the right question at the right time!
> 
> He said it wasn't going to be applied retrospectively - perhaps the R35 reps can actually come to the party on this?
> 
> ...


All over it like a rash on.......well you get the idea!

Andy will be my first email and call tomorrow now I have seen this.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

As I posted on the other thread - if the fluids are the same then the temps have to be the same surely ? ........and leading on from that , the service interval difference cannot be justified.

The new 2011 stuff like the R mode not disengaging when moving from auto to manual must also be a software update built into the Gen 1 service schedule that owners of the earlier models can benefit from.

I`m glad the likes of Litchfield have purchased 2x 2011 GTR`s to pull apart in order to enable them to completely understand the differences Nissan has made and act accordingly. With commitment like that to the brand I reckon a car with a full Nissan service history will be worth less than a car with full LITCHFIELD service history ...... interesting ????


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## SuzaFan (Jul 3, 2008)

Chris956 said:


> The new 2011 stuff like the R mode not disengaging when moving from auto to manual must also be a software update built into the Gen 1 service schedule that owners of the earlier models can benefit from.



Is there a software update for that on the "old" model?
I had the 12 months service done in October 2010., but I didn't get that update.
My next service is in April... Should I especially ask for that or they flash it automatically?


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

SuzaFan said:


> Is there a software update for that on the "old" model?
> I had the 12 months service done in October 2010., but I didn't get that update.
> My next service is in April... Should I especially ask for that or they flash it automatically?


This is gearbox R mode right as am almost certain mine stays in R and doesn't need to be re engaged when I switch. Picked mine up September 2010 and will double check when I get back next week to make sure am not going mad.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

ROG350Z said:


> This is gearbox R mode right as am almost certain mine stays in R and doesn't need to be re engaged when I switch. Picked mine up September 2010 and will double check when I get back next week to make sure am not going mad.


When you have it in auto with R and go to manual the R disengages.

When i go to manual i always go into R. So i don't switch R on and then pull the paddles...i have learned to do it the other way round.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

SuzaFan said:


> Is there a software update for that on the "old" model?
> I had the 12 months service done in October 2010., but I didn't get that update.
> My next service is in April... Should I especially ask for that or they flash it automatically?


I was hypothesising ( and hoping ) that the new features on the 2011 car will eventually cascade their way down to us 2009 owners but until they do we are stuck with how they are and in this case if you are in auto R mode and pull a paddle it will disengage R mode as you enter manual


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

AndyE14 said:


> The latter point is true.
> 
> The headline cost of my change was £18500, less the saving of tax for a year, getting new tyres, saving the cost of a 12 month service, 12 months additional warranty (god knows that will cost if and when available) so it all nudges down the effective cost of change I think. It would have been way less tempting at any other than the 1 year point given the "contribution" coming from the tax and service cost saving.
> 
> ...


Ouch! On the Insurance front it's worth checking those Insurance companies that said no last time. I've just moved mine from Groupama to Aviva (who weren't interested last year) and saved £450!


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

Back to topic.

I popped into Ancaster Bromley today to sort out the switchover of my number plate, decide which cover I wanted as part of my "protection pack" and do some of the pre delivery paperwork.

The disclaimers seem to be the same as they were last year, I could not see any specific difference, they still seem to invalidate the warranty for any off road activity.

There are 2 service schedules. 9k Miles/12 months for "normal" use and 6 months/6k miles (I think but will check) for "extreme use". I did question how someone would know if their use was classed as "extreme" would the car indicate a need for an earlier service and was told it wouldn't but someone would know if they had used the car hard enough to warrant an earlier service.

I saw a MY11 in the flesh for the first time today and have to say I really like the new black and the new wheels, wish I hadn't ordered blue now


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

ROG350Z said:


> This is gearbox R mode right as am almost certain mine stays in R and doesn't need to be re engaged when I switch. Picked mine up September 2010 and will double check when I get back next week to make sure am not going mad.


Likewise, i tried today & the gearbox R mode stayed engaged no matter how many times I flicked from Manual to Auto. Mine is an Oct 10 model so maybe MY10 cars also have the updated software that the new MY11.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Same here....Sept 10 car and stays in R mode when changing between auto and manual.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

w8pmc said:


> Likewise, i tried today & the gearbox R mode stayed engaged no matter how many times I flicked from Manual to Auto. Mine is an Oct 10 model so maybe MY10 cars also have the updated software that the new MY11.


I guess so, mine is a Sep 09


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

Never driven in anger using R mode in auto, is there a noticeable difference in change times/response? Tbh I've not driven in manual without R mode so no idea on the differences there either?


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

R mode just let's me have 6th below 36 mph and will not auto change up at the redline. Never use it on the road but useful on track.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

charles charlie said:


> useful on track.


Glad I didn't post that :chuckle:


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Stevie76 said:


> Same here....Sept 10 car and stays in R mode when changing between auto and manual.


Excellent - glad I am not going mental!


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

Definitely a case for the 09 cars to be updated then via a software patch.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Does our collective power give us any sway with Nissan?

Just wondering if Nissan can be leant on by disgruntled pre my2011 owners to amend the service schedule accordingly.

I know it would bring dealers less in the way of service income but it would certainly bolster second hand values.

Can this viewpoint be presented by a representative?


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

Nissan UK didn't change even when Japan changed to very similar to the new schedule on the old cars. They also haven't budged on cars requiring a 6 month service even when they basically only get driven to go for a service.


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## jcg (Oct 7, 2009)

I think it is impossible for Nissan to hold the line that UK 09 and 10 cars get serviced every 6 months but 2011 UK cars only need looking at every year. I was told the reason the Japanese service schedule did not apply was because UK fuel was less consistent than Japanese fuel [?] so risks were greater over here. Clearly the "fuel" distinction does not apply between UK cars. It is difficult to have 2 essentially identical cars (same engine (09 in fact lower tune), same gearbox) and argue they have fundamentally different servicing needs (without showing complete contempt for your original customers). This seems exactly the circumstance where our GTR representative should be getting the confirmation that the new service schedule applies to pre 2011 cars (although you would have thought from a customer goodwill perspective Nissan would have already made this clear)


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## GTR_Steve (Sep 4, 2008)

I certainly agree that this is a prime case for the GTROC ambassadors. Can we have confirmation from the team that this will be raised?


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

they,ve still got an 'extreme use' get out requiring more frequent service?


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

Zed Ed said:


> they,ve still got an 'extreme use' get out requiring more frequent service?


Yes but they cannot describe what extreme use is or explain how you would know that you were an "extreme user" simply that you "would just know".

Frankly all this whingeing abot the service intervals is getting rather tiresome. Nissan did nothing about it when those of us who were low mileage users questioned the value of the 6 monthly service. if you want a different service interval that much just buy a MY2011


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

AndyE14 said:


> if you want a different service interval that much just buy a MY2011


Good advice indeed but why does your status suggest that you want to sell your MY2011 car before you've got it? I seem to remember you were fed up with Nissan a while ago.


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Good advice indeed but why does your status suggest that you want to sell your MY2011 car before you've got it? I seem to remember you were fed up with Nissan a while ago.


Ah should update it feeling happier now and forgot it was still set like that  Things worked out in my favour in the end after a good push from me,


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## lsb (Nov 29, 2010)

AndyE14 said:


> Yes but they cannot describe what extreme use is or explain how you would know that you were an "extreme user" simply that you "would just know".
> 
> Frankly all this whingeing abot the service intervals is getting rather tiresome. Nissan did nothing about it when those of us who were low mileage users questioned the value of the 6 monthly service. if you want a different service interval that much just buy a MY2011


Ha,ha a little humour from the man who threw his toys out of the cot because his car would not start :chuckle: How quickly a "whinge" can turn around to sound like smugness.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm sure the MY11 won't be all financial ambrosia.


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## jcg (Oct 7, 2009)

Not sure I fully appreciate your logic AndyE14 or why some owners wanting to achieve a positive change is so irritating to you. I am a low mileage user who still thinks the service interval is stupid (I have had three services in less than 8k miles and am coming up to my fourth shortly). I don't think buying a new car for £70k makes much sense when I already have basically the same car (which I bought new in April 2009). In a years time this will in any event be of academic interest because I won't have a warranty to worry about losing but I do think Nissan would be well advised to treat its customers better. I look forward to the reaction of 2011 model owners when the service interval goes up to 24 months for any future model! Who is the GTR ambassador who can ask the question for us?


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## countvonc (Feb 11, 2009)

Zed Ed said:


> I'm sure the MY11 won't be all financial ambrosia.


Yep, don't forget that you can't fit Bridgies to them.........


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## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

lsb said:


> Ha,ha a little humour from the man who threw his toys out of the cot because his car would not start :chuckle: How quickly a "whinge" can turn around to sound like smugness.


I didn't get annoyed because the car wouldn't start, I got annoyed because the bloody RAC service was totally useless in doing the one thing they would actually be useful for. Hopefully as a result of my "feedback" to Nissan that situation might change in the future for all of us.

For over a year now there has been a certain lack of sympathy here for low mileage users like myself and others having to adhere to ludicrous service schedules (I would be looking at a service with oil change next month, where I not changing car after doing a total of 700 miles since the last service). Now it seems that the MY2011 has a longer service interval, it becomes a broader issue all over again. That might sniff a bit of hypocrisy.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

GTR_Steve said:


> I certainly agree that this is a prime case for the GTROC ambassadors. Can we have confirmation from the team that this will be raised?


Not by them but it was discussed today by me at a meeting with Nissan.

I haven't read all the comments in this thread so apologies if I've short-circuited some opinions and responses. However I will do my best to give some explanation in short form of Nissan's thinking on the changes.

The MY2011 car does have a different service interval for many elements and most noticable is that related to the transmission. In reality you could buy a car and sell it on after three years and never have the transmission oil changed. But where would be the fun in that? :Chuckle:. This is as a result of a number of changes some of which are described as minor, some significant (some no doubt both ). Overall it does mean there has been an imporvement to the product which Nissan are able to pass on to new customers. To apply this to older variant cars would be a nice idea and it is something I think everyone would want to hear. However, the models were built to a standard and the servicing is related to that. So it's not just a case of applying new rules over old rules it would be a case of applying new rules over slightly different hardware. Some dealerships have pushed for this as have some regional organisations but the response from Nissan itself has been that it cannot do that. In reality and over time it may become apparent that the rules can be slackened but as it stands today that wont be possible.

I hope that helps answer your questions, sorry if it's not the answer you want


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

So, God bless the Japanese and Nissan in particular for improving something but not admitting it and then convincing us that there is no need to apologise for something not being what it should've been in the first place. Does that make sense?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

No :chuckle:
Improving something does not mean that it was wrong in the first place:


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## jcg (Oct 7, 2009)

Many thanks - I guess what I was expecting from Nissan was precise clarity on the changes that made the new service interval infeasible/inappropriate for the old cars (rather than a vague the car's better so live with it) and detail of why the changes that were so necessary for the extended service interval could not be made to the old cars (and at what cost) retrospectively. I am fortunate that I have been able to pay biggish money for exotic cars and I have never been a badge snob. Nissan had a great opportunity to entrench their position with me and other owners in similar position but have singularly failed to do so (and for reasons that would have cost them very little money but were very irritating for me)


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Agreed, there is a case to answer for in terms of PR and good customer loyalty but everything has a price, like it or not and there are a LOT of cars out there. That said it is not 'done and dead' but right now is just not going to happen but that one day may change


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Only Nissan could have 2 different service intervals on a minor update on a face lifted car!:clap:


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

More trackdays it is then, lol


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Agreed, there is a case to answer for in terms of PR and good customer loyalty but everything has a price, like it or not and there are a LOT of cars out there. That said it is not 'done and dead' but right now is just not going to happen but that one day may change


So in the meantime wherever possible give your money to an independent (AKA Litchfield's) and let the greedy **ckers starve until they ask nicely for our custom back! My next service is going down that route, even if I have to pay my saving in petrol costs.


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

waltong said:


> So in the meantime wherever possible give your money to an independent (AKA Litchfield's) and let the greedy **ckers starve until they ask nicely for our custom back! My next service is going down that route, even if I have to pay my saving in petrol costs.


I almost agree but would amend that slightly to;

Always give your money to an independent (AKA Litchfield's) and let the greedy **ckers starve and even if they ask nicely for our custom back tell them to **** off!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

I presume the HPC business case, 'service side' at least, is therefore going to be driven by revenue from 09/10 cars.

I'd be surpassed if the MY11 population will reach 250, that is not is not a big HPC revenue base if servicing is annual.

Close to jumping to Litchfield myself; also close to my wife's favourite Spa weekend. Phew.


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> I presume the HPC business case, 'service side' at least, is therefore going to be driven by revenue from 09/10 cars.
> 
> I'd be surpassed if the MY11 population will reach 250, that is not is not a big HPC revenue base if servicing is annual.
> 
> Close to jumping to Litchfield myself; also close to my wife's favourite Spa weekend. Phew.


I think the dealers privately are seething. Firstly they have not retained anywhere near enough service customers for the dealers to recoup their outlay on specialist equipment and staff training and secondly with the new model having extended service intervals that's exaggerated the problem.

Oh well at least they can sell the new special Dunlop tyres for a grand each :chuckle:

Litchfields cannot be faulted, you won't regret it if you switch.


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

The service intervals in Japan for the old model are similar to the new model here. They were relaxed in about July 2009 and the details and translation were on the forums either here or on NAGTROC.

Is the only justification our lack of 112mph limiter? What if we would rarely hit the JDM limiter anyway?


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Excuse me if I'm a bit fuzzy on this but the whole Japan v RoW came up before. I seem to recall because there is a limite on the roads and they know when you're on a track they can exactly pinpoint when and where (and for how long) you were at a track and, in that regard, can be more strict on oil changes and have a more detailed view of how much 'abuse' the car has received. Or something like that.............


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

imattersuk said:


> I think the dealers privately are seething. Firstly they have not retained anywhere near enough service customers for the dealers to recoup their outlay on specialist equipment and staff training


Not surprised, plus Nissan keeps diluting the HPC network with more dealers

Maybe this is why my local HPC always tries to fleece me:runaway:



imattersuk said:


> Oh well at least they can sell the new special Dunlop tyres for a grand each :chuckle:


There is a new Bridgestone too; who knows if it will be marketed in the uk 

on intervals............

There is no engineering basis for the change in service intervals, which are either: a) about placating HPCs who have got a bum income deal on the GTR proposition, or b) about placating MY11 owners who are overpaying for their cars... because of exchange rates or previous underpricing
opcorn:


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Excuse me if I'm a bit fuzzy on this but the whole Japan v RoW came up before. I seem to recall because there is a limite on the roads and they know when you're on a track they can exactly pinpoint when and where (and for how long) you were at a track and, in that regard, can be more strict on oil changes and have a more detailed view of how much 'abuse' the car has received. Or something like that.............


When a bloke is forced into his HPC having covered a 1000 miles in 6 months with the original tyres on, I reckon it's fairly easy to recognise that the vehicle hasn't been on a track! Plug it into Nissan FM and it will also show whether any temp rules have been breached. John, you know and we all know it's just a load of Nissan GB/Euro bollox! I wonder how on earth you sit with these chaps with a straight face!?


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Well i've yet to see any evidence of how the "special" relationship between the club and Nissan helps R35 owners.


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

imattersuk said:


> Well i've yet to see any evidence of how the "special" relationship between the club and Nissan helps R35 owners.


Hmmm...let me think where I have seen that before opcorn:

D


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## Gatling (Jun 16, 2010)

imattersuk said:


> Well i've yet to see any evidence of how the "special" relationship between the club and Nissan helps R35 owners.


There isnt one! wishful thinking by alot of people on here.
Yes, certain members might get invites to launches and what not, but I dont think this place holds any kind of proper link with Nissan at all. I maybe wrong, and somebody may come along soon enough to correct me on that.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

It's easy to be critical, one of you is not a member and the other did not step forward when liaison positions with Nissan were put forward; so I can only summize that your preference is to criticize rather comment positively. However that is your choice.

If getting you the facts and the details behind them isn't helpful then perhaps we shouldn't bother asking the questions. There are many occasions when we have been able to answer questions raised on here and many times when extra help has been provided as a result of us taking issues to Nissan. That does not mean that on every occasion a group of people don't like something a multi-billion pound corporation will capitulate. If you look back over time at issues relating to launch control, prices of some components, information provision and a whole host of other things you will see changes have come about and as a result of the GTROC and its members. At a charity track event last year we got Nissan to agree it would be classified as a driving experience not a track day for purposes of warranty, that makes a huge difference.

There is much that goes on behind the scenes that you don't see. For example I spent two hours of my working day yesterday in a meeting with Nissan. If I didn't think it was worth it, and the travelling time, I would have stayed at work and billed my client for the extra four hours. Several weeks ago two GTROC Board members were in a series of meetings with Nissan, up to seven people from Nissan were there at the time. If Nissan did not think it worthwhile and were not interested in what we had to say they would not have invested that amount of time. Similarly the two Board members would not have spent the entire day there, one of whom had a three hour drive each way!

Not everything you read about is exploded into epic stoires on the forum. Not every move that Nissan make as a result of our meetings is significant or deserves mention. In short none of that do it are here to blast our own horn, wave our own flag or massage our own egos.

If you're not happy with the results we have achieved then you are perfectly welcome to step in and help. If you're not happy with the progres we have made so far you are within your right to attend the AGMs and voice your views but only as long as you can do better. Or, for some, perhaps you could even join the GTROC - at a significant discount and have Nissan pay the rest of the cost - rather than just being a freeloader!


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> It's easy to be critical, one of you is not a member and the other did not step forward when liaison positions with Nissan were put forward; so I can only summize that your preference is to criticize rather comment positively. However that is your choice.
> 
> If getting you the facts and the details behind them isn't helpful then perhaps we shouldn't bother asking the questions. There are many occasions when we have been able to answer questions raised on here and many times when extra help has been provided as a result of us taking issues to Nissan. That does not mean that on every occasion a group of people don't like something a multi-billion pound corporation will capitulate. If you look back over time at issues relating to launch control, prices of some components, information provision and a whole host of other things you will see changes have come about and as a result of the GTROC and its members. At a charity track event last year we got Nissan to agree it would be classified as a driving experience not a track day for purposes of warranty, that makes a huge difference.
> 
> ...


I have been a member in the past but fail to see what benefit it brings me. I see no useful stance or representation from the club on the issues of tyres, cracked discs, poor levels of service from HPC's, cost of transmission fluid etc. It may well be the case that these points have been brought up with Nissan but any answer i've ever seen posted smacks of going through the motions rather than taking a firm stance.

It's quite telling that Alex has taken on Nissan Europe and got some worthwhile changes introduced and an engine recall on hundreds of vehicles as an individual and yet the club appear to make little or no progress on issues that relate to UK owners. Please correct me if i'm wrong and this individual hasn't achieved these things.

Does joining in with discussions on the forum make me a freeloader ?

One final point, i'm tired of hearing how much work you put into this and that, if you don't want to dedicate your free time to the running of the club then don't but please stop whining about it every time someone questions why the club can't make progress on these serious issues. I don't have the time or the motivation to get involved but as stated on numerous occasions I would be willing to pay a significantly higher annual membership fee than current levels if I felt it was of some benefit, so quit with the freeloader remarks, it's very juvenile.

ps. The final straw for me deciding not to renew my membership was after offering to help set up the stand at Snetterton last year I arrived to find a stick in the ground with no club officials there, no trailer, no nothing in fact only 3 x R35 members turned up all day. When that was questioned on here it was met with the usual sarcastic reply.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

You're not a freeloader and I'm glad to see your comments are positive. I'm not adverse to accepting criticism as is anyone else on the GTROC Board but there is a difference with those that have paid the privelege and feel they want to contribute to the debate rather than those that freeload or just complain without trying to be helpful (or worse - both!).

I was at Snetterton, working sadly but something I no longer do. The Unit was not there because it was/is being sold. The whole exercise was funded by two members out of their own pocket and by their estimations has cost over £5000. They decided to not pursue it any further because the returns did not justify the time and expense involved. Just getting it there would have been a day's drive. We're not as big at the Porsche Club but one day who knows, it may be something we revisit. For now however, and with some sadness on the part of all of us, it has been decided that this is unsustainable.

I know Alex very well and there were many discussions between us off the forum as well as the forum debate. I was also involved in a lot of discussions with Nissan Europe, NMGB and Nissan in Japan on this issue, so forgive me if I don't write posts saying "yeah, what he said" and also forgive me if every time I had a meeting, call or email with Nissan I don't post it here. But just so you understand in the last seven days:
2 hour meeting with Nissan Europe at Heathrow
2 hour meeting with NMGB in Surrey
4 emails yesterday
2 emails on Monday
2 texts on Sunday!
1 phone call on Friday
3 emails on Friday
1 email on Thursday

Because progress is made by others does not mean that the GTROC is not involved nor consulted. Because changes do happen and happen slowly does not mean the GTROC has not had some hand in it. The service interval for the 2011 car is something that we have been discussing fo several years! It started with complaints on the current model and over time became apparent that could not change so we set about focussing our efforts on the future and asked whether improvements could be made. In all truth I will never know if these conversations were listened to nor can I say whether it did make any difference. However I can assure you the discssuons were had and took place in three countries and with several GTROC board members involved.

Your comments on higher membership fees are music to my ears. I often wonder what we could do with an extra £10k surplus per annum. However, we can't even get the vast majority of people who spent £50k on a car to pay a measly £15 to join! so changing it will probably just give them even more reason not to join. If we could get £45 (the normal membership fee) out of every new owner (or maybe just 90% of them) the differences we could make swould be significant. Sadly I don't know how to do that but wish I did


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

OK here's what I find hard to accept.

Yourself and probably all of the other members of the committee are very knowledgable when it comes to these issues. You clearly have more experience with all things motoring than many of us so I find it hard to accept that Nissan can bullshit you to such a large extent. Do you hand on heart really agree that gearbox fluid needs changing so often and that it's some magic formula that is justified at being charged out at £600 ? Have they given technical explanations for this and if so can the club not check these claims with someone independent who can confirm their accuracy or as I suspect confirm it's total BS ?

Whilst I accept you cannot force them into making changes I do honestly feel that a different approach is required.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Believe me what I know about cars you could write on a postcard! I have never worked on or maintained a car in my life and only ever done one oil change - at Jurby airfield in the Isle of Man!

The oil is a known issue and one of the GTROC Board has told NMGB that he can get oil that is equivalent/better (he's had it examined) for something like 10% of the price. Nissan have a deal with Castrol so, I am fraid to say, we (and I use that term to reflect the membership not me per-se as I don't even own an R35) are held hostage to corporate agreements that were signed back in the days of development. If, however, you want to use a different supplier, change the oil yourself, or go elsewhere you are within your right to do so and a recent change in European law now allows you to do just that and not invalidate your warrenty. Perhaps the issue is not what the GTROC meetings can do in isolation but what we can all do in combination. For example, we take the issue to Nissan and tell them, then cars are taken elsehwere for servicing and the reality of our conversation starts to bite. The GTROC is the mouthpiece, the membership is the bite!


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## scampbird (Jan 24, 2011)

Fuggles said:


> However, we can't even get the vast majority of people who spent £50k on a car to pay a measly £15 to join! so changing it will probably just give them even more reason not to join. If we could get £45 (the normal membership fee) out of every new owner (or maybe just 90% of them) the differences we could make swould be significant. Sadly I don't know how to do that but wish I did


Just a quick comment on that as a potential member - it would help if when you click "sign up", and then click "membership benefits" it didn't say "access denied".


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Believe me what I know about cars you could write on a postcard! I have never worked on or maintained a car in my life and only ever done one oil change - at Jurby airfield in the Isle of Man!
> 
> The oil is a known issue and one of the GTROC Board has told NMGB that he can get oil that is equivalent/better (he's had it examined) for something like 10% of the price. Nissan have a deal with Castrol so, I am fraid to say, we (and I use that term to reflect the membership not me per-se as I don't even own an R35) are held hostage to corporate agreements that were signed back in the days of development. If, however, you want to use a different supplier, change the oil yourself, or go elsewhere you are within your right to do so and a recent change in European law now allows you to do just that and not invalidate your warrenty. Perhaps the issue is not what the GTROC meetings can do in isolation but what we can all do in combination. For example, we take the issue to Nissan and tell them, then cars are taken elsehwere for servicing and the reality of our conversation starts to bite. The GTROC is the mouthpiece, the membership is the bite!


I think Nissan are well aware of the volume of service business Litchfields currently enjoy on their flagship product


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

scampbird said:


> Just a quick comment on that as a potential member - it would help if when you click "sign up", and then click "membership benefits" it didn't say "access denied".


Thanks, I will ask someone to look into this.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

imattersuk said:


> I think Nissan are well aware of the volume of service business Litchfields currently enjoy on their flagship product


Sadly NMGB are aware and are trying to et Nissan Japan to listen, but it's not getting the kind of progress they would like either. Understand that sometimes the frustrations you feel are being felt equally by NMGB


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

Fuggles said:


> Sadly NMGB are aware and are trying to et Nissan Japan to listen, but it's not getting the kind of progress they would like either. Understand that sometimes the frustrations you feel are being felt equally by NMGB


Interesting to hear that.

One observation on this topic I would make is that most people who use Litchfields do so initially due to price, however once you have used them once you soon realise there are many advantages over and above price. 

My local HPC has a horrendous staff turnover rate, cars are not looked after when in their care either so it's the overall package that's lacking not just price. When you call Nissan GB to complain they just spin the "all our dealers are independently owned and whilst we sympathise we are not responsible for this problem" line.

Let's face it people who buy £60k cars generally don't penny pinch but on the other hand we don't get into a position to buy a car like this by being ripped off either.

One last point for Iain if you're reading this, you may be bloody good but don't even think of putting your prices up LOL


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

Understanding the dynamic between Mizuno-san and the rest of Nissan is key, as is understanding the way Nissan generally works


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

When I defect, it won't be because of price either


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Fuggles,

I am sorry if you have already confrmed this, but will you be raising the point about some owners' dissatisfaction about the change in service interval not being applied to older models?

I am sure the improved perceived value of used car values would be worth the loss in servicing revenue, as it serves to bolster the value of the brand.


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

It was mentioned yesterday at a two hour meeting I had with NMGB and a very detailed explanation given. It was also mentioned at a meeting I had earlier this week with Nissan Europe and the same, and also detailed, explanation given. I'm happy to answer any questions and will always do my best to respond so no need to apologise



Fuggles said:


> ........ I will do my best to give some explanation in short form of Nissan's thinking on the changes.
> 
> The MY2011 car does have a different service interval for many elements and most noticable is that related to the transmission. In reality you could buy a car and sell it on after three years and never have the transmission oil changed. But where would be the fun in that? :Chuckle:. This is as a result of a number of changes some of which are described as minor, some significant (some no doubt both ). Overall it does mean there has been an imporvement to the product which Nissan are able to pass on to new customers. To apply this to older variant cars would be a nice idea and it is something I think everyone would want to hear. However, the models were built to a standard and the servicing is related to that. So it's not just a case of applying new rules over old rules it would be a case of applying new rules over slightly different hardware. Some dealerships have pushed for this as have some regional organisations but the response from Nissan itself has been that it cannot do that. In reality and over time it may become apparent that the rules can be slackened but as it stands today that wont be possible.


I hope that helps answer your questions, sorry if it's not the answer you want


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## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

As an owner of an 09 model I am obviously interested in this thread however from my own perspective I'm only looking at an extra two services to keep to the original schedule until the car is out of warranty then I believe as most owners will do I will change to what I believe will be an acceptable service interval similiar to that on the MY11, unfortunately I have no independent servicing alternative, but I imagine that Nissan will drag it heels until most MY10 models are out of warranty then reduce the interval coupled with an extended warranty offer to encourage customers back to their HPC's.


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## srandall (Mar 31, 2006)

I have just written a long post on the servicing issue, and then deleted it, as I did not want to sound like one of those having a pop at Fuggles, when I actually believe he does a very good job for the GTROC. I have held voluntary positions in clubs before, and know it goes without salary or recognition, but includes plenty of criticism from those who can't and won't have a go themselves. 

I am very sore though about having a car that is still on its original tyres and brake pads, but needs a gearbox oil change. The car has done 8000 miles but had the gearbox changed at 2000 miles and hence am being forced to change the oil after 6000 miles of road driving, with the car never having been around a track.

I would appreciate knowing which gearbox oil Fuggles was referring to, that is identical to Nissans, but costs 10% of what Nissan charges. I want to use this in protest at being ripped off. If it is problem posting the details on the public forum, I would appreciate a personal message.


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## imattersuk (Nov 28, 2008)

The only technical term we need to know about is this;

Nissan Transmission Fluid = Snakeoil


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## Fuggles (Jul 3, 2001)

srandall said:


> I have just written a long post on the servicing issue, and then deleted it, as I did not want to sound like one of those having a pop at Fuggles, when I actually believe he does a very good job for the GTROC. I have held voluntary positions in clubs before, and know it goes without salary or recognition, but includes plenty of criticism from those who can't and won't have a go themselves.


Thank you for the support but it's not just me, there is a whole team of people that do a good job. As for your other question I am sure some discussions will soon evolve on this


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

srandall said:


> I would appreciate knowing which gearbox oil Fuggles was referring to, that is identical to Nissans, but costs 10% of what Nissan charges. I want to use this in protest at being ripped off. If it is problem posting the details on the public forum, I would appreciate a personal message.


Its pentosin FFL4 as used by Litchfields. For the Diffs they use NISMO oils.


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## misters3 (Jun 23, 2008)

Chris956 said:


> Its pentosin FFL4 as used by Litchfields. For the Diffs they use NISMO oils.


FWIW - this is what i'll be providing my HPC in a few months for my 18month service.


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## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

srandall said:


> I have just written a long post on the servicing issue, and then deleted it, as I did not want to sound like one of those having a pop at Fuggles, when I actually believe he does a very good job for the GTROC. I have held voluntary positions in clubs before, and know it goes without salary or recognition, but includes plenty of criticism from those who can't and won't have a go themselves.
> 
> I am very sore though about having a car that is still on its original tyres and brake pads, but needs a gearbox oil change. The car has done 8000 miles but had the gearbox changed at 2000 miles and hence am being forced to change the oil after 6000 miles of road driving, with the car never having been around a track.
> 
> I would appreciate knowing which gearbox oil Fuggles was referring to, that is identical to Nissans, but costs 10% of what Nissan charges. I want to use this in protest at being ripped off. If it is problem posting the details on the public forum, I would appreciate a personal message.


Hear Hear to all of the above. Saves me re-writing it all haha thanks!


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