# RB vs VQ who is king?



## skylineGTR_Guy (Mar 23, 2004)

With regards to the next GTR being VQ powered, I was wondering how you feel about the VQ compared to the RB, pros cons etc. I know you all dearly love the RB, but do you see the change to VQ as a step foreward or a step back?


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

skylineGTR_Guy said:


> With regards to the next GTR being VQ powered, I was wondering how you feel about the VQ compared to the RB, pros cons etc. I know you all dearly love the RB, but do you see the change to VQ as a step foreward or a step back?


Lot of people doing good work on the VQ, but I think it'll be a while before it reaches the RB level (if ever)
It's not a step forward or back - it's just different.


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## SkyJawa (Apr 28, 2004)

You just have to see how many 350Z's are being fitted with RB's 

Though I'm sure they'll come on in time


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## trondhla (Oct 1, 2003)

That issue have been dicussed heavly in other forums, but clearly the V-configuration has it advantages over in-line, like size and stability of the engine block. What you like or not depend in the end on eye of the beholder, but it is convincing to know that the R34 has beeen raced in the JTCC with a VQ30 engine as a viable alternative to a RB-engine.
Look forward to a VQ3x in the next GTR.


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## OzzieGTR (Mar 6, 2005)

Most JGTC GTRs are VQ now
and those guys ain't silly.


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## drewby (Jan 15, 2004)

*VQ*

HI whot mods do you need to get them to around 550 hp, cheers. D


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## Noir (Jun 11, 2005)

What is RB and VQ ? Did I miss something Here?


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## SkyJawa (Apr 28, 2004)

Engine series.

As in the RB engines in Skylines RB25DET RB26DETT, and the VQ series engines as fitted in the Murano, Infinity G35/New Skyline and 350Z, eg the 3.5 litre V6.


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## Noir (Jun 11, 2005)

SkyJawa said:


> Engine series.
> 
> As in the RB engines in Skylines RB25DET RB26DETT, and the VQ series engines as fitted in the Murano, Infinity G35/New Skyline and 350Z, eg the 3.5 litre V6.


Oh, RB is Straight in-line Engine and VQ is V-style engine.

In that case RB is the best how even VQ is getting to RB level. The next Skyline will be using VQ (gotten be V8) with turbo....but is it possible with VQ? Never heard VQ turbo-charged but VQ supercharged.


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## Noir (Jun 11, 2005)

SkyJawa said:


> Engine series.
> 
> As in the RB engines in Skylines RB25DET RB26DETT, and the VQ series engines as fitted in the Murano, Infinity G35/New Skyline and 350Z, eg the 3.5 litre V6.


Oh, RB is Straight in-line Engine and VQ is V-style engine.

In that case RB is the best how ever VQ is getting to RB level. The next Skyline will be using VQ (gotten be V8) with turbo....but is it possible with VQ? Never heard VQ turbo-charged but VQ supercharged.


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## SkyJawa (Apr 28, 2004)

Yeah, theres a tuner in Japan or the States (can't remember the name) has already got a twin turbo kit for the VQ


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## TOP SECRET (Apr 19, 2005)

Which VQ??? For the VQ35DE engine there are many turbo and kompressor (supercharger) kits. I saw the most Supercharger kits here in germany, I talked to some1 from Elia Tuning (they have already a N/A tuning kit for the VQ) and they told me that turbo sucks on this engine because of the thermic conditions in the engine room, so everybody in germany like Strosek makes supercharges. The TopSecret Turbokit for the VQ is little bit expensive - so much for just a steel exh. manif. and the HKS TC?? My favorite is the PowerEnterprise Twinturbo Kit for the VQ35DE engine.

I wouldn't say that the VQ would be ever better than the RB. Both engines have different pro's and con's. TopSecret's own "New Skyline" has a TTcharged V8, the 350Z with the Longnose BK from TopSecret has the VQ30. And I read something that the VQ35DE engine wouldn't be very good for f/i tuning, but even here in germany and switzerland are MANY f/i VQ35DE engine with around 400-500hp.


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## tschreibung (Jul 11, 2005)

The only thing that's bad about the VQ35 when it comes to turbos is the high compression ratio. Greddy has a twin turbo out on the market but it is rather pricey. Turbonetics has just introduced a new single turbo kit that is supposed to be much more powerful as well as safer. I know this since I have a 350Z. I also have a sponsership for my car and they do not want me to use the Greddy kit, only the Turbonetics kit for safety reasons. They also say that the Turbonetics system is easily capable of over 500 H.P. I am still looking into this with a great deal of caution. I will keep you posted.


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## kaneda (Oct 9, 2004)

trondhla said:


> ...it is convincing to know that the R34 has beeen raced in the JTCC with a VQ30 engine as a viable alternative to a RB-engine.
> Look forward to a VQ3x in the next GTR.


Nissan always uses their production engines in their JGTC race cars. the race car will use whatever the current road car uses. Nissan didn't use an RB26DETT in their 2003 JGTC GT500 car because in 2002 the R34 had ended production; meaning the VQ35DE was now the production Skyline motor and the 350Z Nissan's premier sports car. Rather than attempting to compete in the GT500 class in a brand new platform (the 350) and risk losing the championship, they kept the R34 GT-R and used a production based VQ30DETT from the Skyline while the 350Z ran in the GT300 class.

they didn't choose the VQ35DE as a base because it was better, they used it as base because they're committed to using motors from the production version of the car. the Skyline won the GT500 class 7 times and of those 7 times the RB was responsible for 6.


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## kaneda (Oct 9, 2004)

tschreibung said:


> The only thing that's bad about the VQ35 when it comes to turbos is the high compression ratio.


and the weak pistons.
and the weak connecting rods.
and the open deck construction.


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## GT-CULTURE (Apr 14, 2005)

*HKS 3.8*



kaneda said:


> and the weak pistons.
> and the weak connecting rods.
> and the open deck construction.


Available soon from HKS 3.8 VQ kit consisting of HKS pistons, crank, and Conrods.

Maximum good BHP/torque you can get from HKS 3.8VQ engine with
HKS Super charger is 450 BHP.

Watch out for more interesting developements from HKS.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

Havent read it yet but in this months Banzai mag I think there is a turbo conversion on the VQ engine running in a Fairlady (350)


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## Jakester (Sep 27, 2003)

My Maxima in the states is running a VQ30DE and has had a Stillen supercharger on it for the past 2 1/2 years.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

Had a look at the mag and its a GReddy T88H turbo conversion, re-bore to 3.8 with Jun internals, 800-1000bhp, seems like anythings possible with it.


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## RyTakahashi34 (Jul 22, 2005)

I would rather see an RB series in the next GT-R, but am not totally opposed to seeing a VQ. As long as they develop a VQ that has the potent potential of the RB, I'll be satified.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

As F1 is supposed to represent the pinnacle of motorsport I wonder what engine configuration they would choose if they had a free hand? They are all 'V' something and have been for some time, is this the ideal? if it is then the VQ is the way to go.


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## tschreibung (Jul 11, 2005)

It's funny that you mention weak this and weak that. I have this one guy who lives near me with a little too much money to play with. Shortly after I purchased my car he shows up with one and it has a greddy twin turbo on it. Cranks up the boost to 14 pounds and shoots two pistons right through the motor! Great way to **** away $40,000. He finally put it back together but this time used a vortech supercharger.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

I think that with a turbo conversion running at any kind of boost then it needs strengthening, they werent designed for that kind of demand but the basics are there imo 
For sure if that engine is used in the next GTR then it will have very different internals


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## g_torphins (Jul 20, 2005)

For sure if that engine is used in the next GTR then it will have very different internals[/QUOTE]

Exactly.
Considering the new GTR will cost _considerably_ more than the Z33
it will have the uprated internals required to deal with FI.
The VQ in the Z is a fantastic engine, just not designed for FI.
The Greddy TT was one of the first systems released for the 350.
They wanted to get the unit on the market fast and consequently the R+D 
was a little lacking and therefore blew engines.
The APS TT seems to be the safest around ATM with stock internals.
Couple of installs in the UK to date with no problems and Stateside an
engine hasn't gone pop yet IIRC.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

I didnt intend to give tee impression that I thought the VQ was anything at all to do witth F1, my query was off topic entirely, just wondered what engine F1 would use if it werent regulated.

Its quite possible that the next GTR engine will not have anything to do with the VQ engine at all


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## g_torphins (Jul 20, 2005)

Sorry!
Im talking about FI not F1!!  
As in Forced Induction....
George


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

Ah...........


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

liquidculture said:


> As F1 is supposed to represent the pinnacle of motorsport I wonder what engine configuration they would choose if they had a free hand? They are all 'V' something and have been for some time, is this the ideal? if it is then the VQ is the way to go.


Engine configuration is not part of the F1 rules, you can have any piston engine design you want. F1 go for high revving engines which mean short stroke, and the V is the most compact in 10 or 12 cylinder form. BMW used an inline 4 in the 80's. The only realistic alternative would be a flat (horizontally opposed) design, but these are wide and have oil flow issues.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

Didnt know that, thanks


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## kaneda (Oct 9, 2004)

NISFAN said:


> Engine configuration is not part of the F1 rules, you can have any piston engine design you want.


not true at all. F1 teams are currently restricted to NA 3.0 liter V10s and IIRC come next year it will be 2.5 liter V8s with a choice to use the 3.0 liter V10 but with a severly shortened rev limit. prior to 1965 F1 teams were restricted to 1.5 liter NA engines of any configuration, this was changed for 1966 to allow 3.0 liter engines of any configuration. 1.5 liter turbo engines were introduced in 1981 and were banned at the end of 1987, a 3.5 liter NA regulation was made in 1988 and 3.5 liter V12s were banned in 1995 in favor of 3.0 liter V10s. all of this has been done throughout the years to try and make F1 competitive, cheaper, and most importantly safer.


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## liquidculture (Apr 19, 2004)

I did think there was some regulation, I know it would be dangerous but it would be interesting if there were no rules at all (except electronic aids) to see how fast the cars could get


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## SkyJawa (Apr 28, 2004)

kaneda said:


> and most importantly _*safer*_.


You did, of course, mean _*boring*_?


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

I think the no regulation thing was aimed at the configeration of the engine interms of it being a V engine or an inline engine.


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## brummie (Jan 13, 2004)

kaneda said:


> and the weak pistons.
> and the weak connecting rods.
> and the open deck construction.


standard internals are good for 420-450bhp. I ran s/c VQ with a 7lb pulley putting out 427. The standard timing maps are the problem. The engines that I know have failed in the states are nearly all down to detination. Like wise I talk to people overthere that have well sorted s/c motors that have done 50k miles, road & track, with no problems.


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## 4age (Mar 18, 2005)

The F1 rules only state that the engine has to be 3.0 L in size and to be N/A. 
That all teams use V10 is only because that configuration represents the optimal compromise for the given engine size -> size, weight, combustion chamber size (optimal around 300cc), fuel consumption. Early in the 3.0L formula Ferrari used an V12 but they quickly realised that an V10 is a better concept for the 3.0L rule. 

Inline engines would not make sense in F1 as they would be to long and not stiff enough to be an load bearing member as in the current V-style Engines. 
BMW had to use an shell for ther 1.5 Liter Turbo Inline 4 Engine to mount it to the monocoque of the chassis. 

The only real disatvantage of an V-Style engine is the duplication of the valve actuation gear (in the current F1 engines they say it consumes about 70hp at top rpm to drive the camshafts). Another disadvantage in the case of the VQ series is that V6 engines do need an balance shaft to be perfectly balanced and nearly vibration free(Inline 6 as the RB series are naturaly in balance). Also normaly in an V6 two piston rods share the same journal in an Inline 6 every road as its own so the crankshaft has also more points where it is hold from the engineblock. See here http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/smooth3.htm#V6

Although Nissan uses the VQ30 in their current JGTC Car i don't think it has much in common with the production engine except the name. The days where the engine in you roadcar was nearly the same as in the race car (Group A days) are over... today its all just marketing.


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

skylineGTR_Guy said:


> With regards to the next GTR being VQ powered, I was wondering how you feel about the VQ compared to the RB, pros cons etc. I know you all dearly love the RB, but do you see the change to VQ as a step foreward or a step back?


Dont know enough about them to comment, are they open or closed deck blocks? Steel crankshaft and rods like the RB26DETT or not?. History has shown that a straight six engine will aways be bad in a track car. The engine extends over the steering rack and has a pendulum effect.But V engines have reliability problems.Esp Renault Engines


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

GT-CULTURE said:


> Available soon from HKS 3.8 VQ kit consisting of HKS pistons, crank, and Conrods.
> 
> Maximum good BHP/torque you can get from HKS 3.8VQ engine with
> HKS Super charger is 450 BHP.
> ...


According to what I've heard the open-deck design is another big problem for the VQ. Hopefully, when and if the VQ make sthe new GTR, it will be closed-deck.

The VQ does have capacity on its side though with some very interesting stroker kits becoming available with good strengthening mods:

http://www.aebsracing.com/products.pl?product=vq35stroker

Is the RB26DETT king of the sixes anyway. There is the 2JZ-GTE from Toyota and this beast from Ford Austrailia (when modded, it can make 1220hp on pump gas (i.e. Optimax):

http://www.fpv.com.au/index.asp?link_id=2.455


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## GTRJack (Aug 27, 2005)

Anyway the VQ30-DETT seems to be great last used at the JGTC Skyline in 2003. I believe adding twin-turbo to the VQ engine would be great. I'm very excited how the new 480bhp Infinity GTR would do with the new twin-turbo VQ32-DETT, plus the light weight high tech AWD e-4WD system. One thing for sure I don't like the POS 350Z redline to *ONLY* 6600 rpm  I just hope the new VQ32-DETT in the new GTR would have at least redline to 8000 rpm like the old once or more..


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## pimp1911 (Aug 1, 2004)

Redline has been bumped up from the factory on 05 and 06 z's. 7100 rpms i think. But less torque. 03 and 04 z's can get redline bumped up by getting ECU flashed. A company called technosquare does it here in the states.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

4age said:


> (in the current F1 engines they say it consumes about 70hp at top rpm to drive the camshafts).


Err... F1 engines don't have camshafts, the valves have electro-pneumatic operation, thus why the engine is filled with compressed gas before the race.


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