# Twin vs Triple plate clutch



## r32Rich (Apr 5, 2014)

Bascially I broke my r32 gtr box last weekend ( lost third gear ) and am using a hks triple plate clutch in the car which is under 600bhp so think this might be a bit ott at that power level? 

After doing a bit of reading most prople seem to break a box when using a triple plate clutch, something to do with them not be dampered and sending shock through the box. This right?

I'm going to fix the gearbox with standard parts and reinforced center plate which apparently helps as I haven't got money for os giken gearkit or fixing it every year so would a twin plate like the Nismo coppermix help it last?

Thanks Rich.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Personally I think the Nismo twin plate coppermix, with the nismo slave is the 'best, easiest to use and kindest on the transmission' clutch setup you can buy.
My HKS triple was shlte.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

R32 Combat said:


> Personally I think the Nismo twin plate coppermix, with the nismo slave is the 'best, easiest to use and kindest on the transmission' clutch setup you can buy.
> My HKS triple was shlte.


I am very impressed with my Nismo Coppermix, but I have to say that I drove a car with a triple plate clutch a few months back and the clutch on it was not only lighter (OEM feel) but also quiet with just a small rattle at tickover.

It was also rated for more power.
If I had the choice I'd have gone for that instead of my Nismo Coppermix.

Apparently it was an OSG triple plate clutch.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I ran 600lbs/ft though mine without issue. Mine has strapped pressure plates to no rattle at all.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

R32 Combat said:


> I ran 600lbs/ft though mine without issue. Mine has strapped pressure plates to no rattle at all.


Triple plate or twin?

I am putting about 530-540lb/ft through my Nismo Coppermix at the moment.
I'm hoping it'll cope with the extra oomph of the EFR turbos.

If it needs changing I'd be quite happy to get a triple plate like the one I drove as it was even easier on my right leg. Which was a surprise.


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## alexcrosse (May 7, 2014)

Right leg? You're doing it wrong.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Mine was a twin.
With reference to easy of use, a twin plate has twice the grip of a single for the same diaphragm clamping force. So a triple would have 50% more than a twin for the same force. They would require the same effort to use. The issue is the bite point is reduced, hence the larger slave. This reduces the slave travel for the same master cylinder travel effectively increasing the bite point feel of the clutch.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

alexcrosse said:


> Right leg? You're doing it wrong.


Lol, good spot.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

R32 Combat said:


> Mine was a twin.
> With reference to easy of use, a twin plate has twice the grip of a single for the same diaphragm clamping force. So a triple would have 50% more than a twin for the same force. They would require the same effort to use. The issue is the bite point is reduced, hence the larger slave. This reduces the slave travel for the same master cylinder travel effectively increasing the bite point feel of the clutch.


Whatever the logic, the triple I tried seemed much lighter to use. More like my daily drive.

Unless it's just because it was an R34... ?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

It's servo assisted to being able to pull a good vacuum helps, cams with larger overlap do not.


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## keithmac (Mar 1, 2014)

My OS Giken R3C is as light or a bit lighter than the stock clutch in my GTO.

You have an extra 4 friction plate surfaces so no need for massive clamp load pressure plates..


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

Now I'm worried my osg triple plate might break my gearbox...


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

^^you worry too much


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Surely gearboxes usually break when a " sudden " force is applied ( when changing gear ) otherwise the clutch is irrelevant as long as it doesn't slip.

A clutch that holds more power without slipping will make the " sudden " force greater . 
It follows that if your clutch is less likely to slip your gearbox is more likely to break when you reach the appropriate power level.

But the number of plates are irrelevant Apart from maybe the coincidence that quite a few twin plates start to slip around the power level that breaks gearboxes. Swop to a triple no slip so more stress.

On the subject of clutches I will never change from my triple carbon unless forced to . 
Holds 570 ft lbs no problem including launches and not much heavier than an oem clutch. 
I didn't need a nismo slave as the clutch was so light so I swopped back to a oem slave for more pedal length .


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## r32Rich (Apr 5, 2014)

The thing with my triple is it feels like a tractor clutch, so hard to use you'd think it was broken 

The on/off feel to it isn't to bad but does rattle when clutch is pressed causing people to look and wonder what's wrong with it haha

"Surely gearboxes usually break when a " sudden " force is applied ( when changing gear ) otherwise the clutch is irrelevant as long as it doesn't slip."


But the clutch is the thing transmitting the power from the engine to the gearbox so if there is no clutch damping like on mine then surely there is a greater shock and more chance of breakage?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Nissan fitted a clutch damper to help you not destroy gearboxes.
Remove it and pull away hard without taking the slack up in the transmission and you'll shock overload it.


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

r32Rich said:


> Bascially I broke my r32 gtr box last weekend ( lost third gear ) and am using a hks triple plate clutch in the car which is under 600bhp so think this might be a bit ott at that power level?
> 
> After doing a bit of reading most prople seem to break a box when using a triple plate clutch, something to do with them not be dampered and sending shock through the box. This right?
> 
> ...


I would think the 4wd is a big part of the problem. 300ZX/GTS-T RWD gearboxes seem to be able to cope with more torque than the GT-R 5 speed even though they're using the same internals. At 500-600ftlb with RWD you'll generally get some traction issues so not really the same shock loading as you'll get revving a GT-R to 7,000 rpm and dumping the clutch. 

I'd say pick your clutch depending on what you need it to cope with. There is absolutely no point in having a triple plate if you can get away with a twin plate. The triple plate will be heavier (more reciprocating weight) and more expensive to service the clutch when you need to refresh the plates. 
The Nismo Coppermix is user friendly and quiet and makes a great road clutch. The standard Coppermix copes with something like 550-600ft lbs of torque and the Competition Coppermix 650-680ft lbs. Enough clutch for most people. If you need something to cope with more than that then the ATS Carbon clutches are very light and are supposed to have a little slip and they cope with a lot of torque although they're not quiet like the Nismo clutch. Not particuarly cheap though unfortunately.


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## kociek (Jul 18, 2011)

mambastu said:


> I would think the 4wd is a big part of the problem. 300ZX/GTS-T RWD gearboxes seem to be able to cope with more torque than the GT-R 5 speed even though they're using the same internals. At 500-600ftlb with RWD you'll generally get some traction issues so not really the same shock loading as you'll get revving a GT-R to 7,000 rpm and dumping the clutch.
> 
> I'd say pick your clutch depending on what you need it to cope with. There is absolutely no point in having a triple plate if you can get away with a twin plate. The triple plate will be heavier (more reciprocating weight) and more expensive to service the clutch when you need to refresh the plates.
> The Nismo Coppermix is user friendly and quiet and makes a great road clutch. The standard Coppermix copes with something like 550-600ft lbs of torque and the Competition Coppermix 650-680ft lbs. Enough clutch for most people. If you need something to cope with more than that then the ATS Carbon clutches are very light and are supposed to have a little slip and they cope with a lot of torque although they're not quiet like the Nismo clutch. Not particuarly cheap though unfortunately.



What you said is very true. 
I used to have Competition Coppermix twin plate and it was quiet a bit heavy on the feet. 
know i have ATS Carbon clutch triple pale and it sounds like a bag of spanners but litter on the feet and very easy to drive with 
price difference is huge,you pay alot for the ATS but the quality is there.
I have no regrets so far but i only have done about 800 miles so we will see.


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## keithmac (Mar 1, 2014)

What's the slip like on the ATS tripple carbon?.

I keep thinking of changing from the OS R3C to an ATS Across/ Carbonetics tripple.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Run a Getrag, which is a very slick box but once you remove the dual mass flywheel you will get a rattle/rumble up to 2k rpm. Nismo state that on their super copper mix kits specifically relating to the noise. 

As for what clutch to go for? Get a Nismo super copper mix twin, the clutch feels like oem and they do a normal 600ps and a 770ps comp spec. Less than £1100 depending on who you buy it from.


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

kociek said:


> What you said is very true.
> I used to have Competition Coppermix twin plate and it was quiet a bit heavy on the feet.
> know i have ATS Carbon clutch triple pale and it sounds like a bag of spanners but litter on the feet and very easy to drive with
> price difference is huge,you pay alot for the ATS but the quality is there.
> I have no regrets so far but i only have done about 800 miles so we will see.


Yes, they're a quality bit of kit. I weighed my ATS carbon triple before I fitted it and the whole assembly with flywheel was slightly lighter than my previous ORC twin plate clutch assembly which was in itself pretty light for a twin plate. Inspite of the ORC having sprung clutch plates and the ATS having solid centred plates the ATS is easier to drive. Its lighter on the pedal and less grabby but its pretty noisy. Haven't finished running the clutch in yet but I'll be interested to see what its like then.


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## n600hks (Aug 20, 2008)

had osg tripple in my 34gtr running 900+ very light on foot but removing duel mass it certainly rattles and you have a biting point  but all in all tried n tested a great clutch, had hks tripple running 605 hp 33 gtr with getrag from supra no biting point was a nightmare for the roads too little gas stalling away too much n takes off  never again a big fail on hks tripple for the road


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## daytona (Jun 28, 2005)

Anyone with first hand experience of the OSGiken STR Twin? As far as slip/ biting point feels? It seems to have a sprung hub which looks promising. I can't get a Copppermix as i've got a Holinger input shaft on the gearbox which means an OS clutch.


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