# Nissan employee & VR38 engine details



## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

"I had some Japanese people over for dinner last night including a guy who works for Nissan and is here on a 3 month business trip. He's not an engineer, but he works in project planning and marketing and said he's done some work on the GT-R project. Of course, this gave me an opportunity to ask a few questions about the new car.

Sorry if you guys already knew this stuff, but I figured some might find it interesting...

1) The new engine is hand-built (we already knew this). However, something interesting is he said there are only 12 guys on this team at Nissan. So it's a highly qualified and elite team of engine builders. I guess they must be pretty busy...

2) He said that the new engine is "sealed". Nissan absolutely positively does not want average Joe's messing with this motor, so they've sealed it in such a way that they can know if it's been tampered or modified by an unauthorized person in which case the warranty will be completely void.

3) He emphasized that the engine has been tuned much closer to its limits ("giri-giri") to achieve maximum performance vs. previous models which had more "tunability". In other words, engineers consider this motor to be quite strung-out, and are actually worried that it may "explode" (maybe he meant detonation?) if modified by the hands of unauthorized tuners. This wasn't to say that the motor doesn't still have more potential, just that Nissan more than ever wants to have control over this so that buyers don't start cranking up the boost, upgrading turbos, cams, etc.

4) I asked him what the general impression in Japan is so far about the car. He said that since nobody's driven it yet, there's pretty much just one word on the street about it: Expensive.

He didn't speak English so I'm not sure if anything was lost in translation. Frankly I couldn't think of any other questions since there's so much info on the Net already. I may play tennis with him this week, so if I think of anything else interesting to ask him I'll let you all know..."


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## dtp (Jul 8, 2007)

Thank you for your information but I think there is nothing new except the last one :chuckle:


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

LOL dtp...hand around EVERYTIME OK? Sounds like I really need to stick with the old GT-Rs because I am just putting up repost!


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## RedBeauty84ZX (Jun 27, 2007)

The people who really want to buy the GTR to modify it won't care about the warranty, they will modify it anyway. The few people who want to modify it and still keep the warranty will by Nismo products ($$$) which is fine. Just from what we know about the VR38s specifics it sounds like it will be a great engine to modify...so i'm not worried about that. We know it has a closed deck block, forged crank, forged rods, and strong cast pistons....it will take to boost just fine. This time around we have an extra 1.2L of displacement and MUCH better head flow over the RB26....so bigger turbos with less boost will make more power.


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

Well it will be more than that im sure...1.2L extra displacement is just the start I KNOW for a fact a stroker kit will come out for it. 3.5L to 4.2L for the VQ35 is possible. maybe a 4.5L for this new engine? Yeah you are right you will have those who could care less about the warranty. I guess I will get ahold of one of those VR38s and see what I can do with it lol. Not a big fan of this new GT-R but I do like the car no doubt. I am just waiting on performance parts to come out for it first then I will be interested but my next GT-R I am searching for is a 72' KPGC10 so this new one will be on the back burner for a few years until support is very strong for it.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Ask him if the VR is based on the V8 racing engine, adapted to V6, or the consumer level VQ V6 engine. They are using the VR code which is of a V8 origin.


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

Yes it is based on that V8 in the 390.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Ok cool. 

I was certain, nearly certain it was, but when the R35 launched at the TMS there was all of this talk of "VQ bank angle and bore are retained on the VR from the VQ" --and then everyone began saying "seee!! it's VQ-based afterall!!" 

And when I then said "No... bank angles for all V6s are the same... bore spacing doesn't mean anything but that they've spaced the bores the same as on the VQ --doesn't mean it's now suddenly a VQ engine." 

People are so convinced of the VQ that they don't even believe it when you say it's not a VQ. This is what I have encountered on the American boards. 

I even said for about a year prior to release that the R35 would unequivocally NOT have a VQ and I was laughed at.


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

Well you can laugh at them now! Nissan wouldn't stick a VQ in there. I want to see what the thing will be like here in the US. But hopefully it won't get into the wrong hands. Ricers or business men who know nothing about its history and just bought it because it was new car and it is fast won't even drive it over the speed limit kind of people. I think that is why I somewhat hate this car it will be left hand drive from the factory...aagh what a turn off. I looks so strange being left hand drive. I want to wait to see what happens...I don't care about the car I can about that engine. Personally I want to get my hands on a REAL 100% KPGC10 Hakosuka and swap a VR38 into it. Not sure if it will work but can't do a thing until it comes out. From one of the videos I saw...the car sounds a step up from the VQs in the 350Z and G35 coupe. Sounds a little louder and meaner but it does kind of sound like it which I was somewhat surprised...When I saw Carlos Ghosn driving it almost sounded like a stock RB. I guess we ALL have to wait until parts come out for the car.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Well, sure, going mainstream does somewhat dilute what was otherwise a cult/underground sort of phenomenon. I think the R35 is nice anyway, but I agree I'd rather it be RHD only, and I'm an American. I want a RHD R35, the proper way, with a manual stick shift, 6MT.


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

Ha! Now we agree bonzelite! It does kind of kill it huh? I miss the GT-R being a underground type of car...makes my eyes water a little because of it being in the spot light too much now. American to American I also would rather have a RHD only with 6 speed manual. But...do you think some company out there will try to do a 6spd manual trans on their own someday? DSG is amazing for fast track days, everyday driving, and of course...for those who hate and can't drive a standard if their lives depended on it. The only thing I like about the new GT-R is the fact it can have ALL countries including the US mainly to make parts for the car. I know many say it is a good car stock but come on...5 years of waiting, a brand new car with a brand new engine I want to see what it can do. They say its new engine is more powerful than the RB26 you will have to prove that to me! I don't doubt it is for a split second but still. But until the car is a 6spd manual trans I will be in the dark...waiting...watching :nervous:


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## Wink (May 29, 2007)

You guys.....

"KNOW for a fact a stroker kit will come out for it. 3.5L to 4.2L". 

The VQ35 engine has a deck height of 215mm from memory, pretty much limiting it to 3.5L. The GTR engine has a deck height the same as the VQ40 (244mm) as the chain drive is carry over from that engine, and this enables the engine to achieve sufficient bay balance for a capacity of up to 3.8L only! The first two phases of the engine were 3.5L, but it was increased to 3.8L to improve off-boost launch, with main focus US market (who aren't so used to boosted cars). The reason why it can go to 4L despite having the same deck height as the VQ40 is the masses of the parts - the piston is much heavier (at over 600g), as is the rod, and the big and main bearing diameters are also much bigger than both the VQ35 and 40 to enable it to run at the high peak cylinder pressures associated with high levels of boosting. The main and big end bearings are 65 and 56mm in diameter respectively, and maximum peak cylinder pressure design limit is 115 bar. 


"Yes it is based on that V8 in the 390". 

Sorry, but this is just stupid. In the first phase the cylinder heads, chain drive, water pump and valvetrain were carry over VQ35, and everything else was new...although the water pump was speeded up by reducing the number of teeth on the water pump sprocket from 31 to 29. For the 2nd phase it was again all new and improved (even over the 1st concept engines), with new cylinder heads, etc, but NOTHING from the 390 engine!!! The only carry over parts are valve spring collets, and the water pump from the latest VQ35 engine, but speeded up again. 


"And when I then said "No... bank angles for all V6s are the same... bore spacing doesn't mean anything but that they've spaced the bores the same as on the VQ --doesn't mean it's now suddenly a VQ engine."

Doh! Bank angles for V6 can be between 15 degrees (e.g. VW VR6), to 90 degrees (Rover KV6, Audi V6's etc). 60 degrees is used as this gives the best compromise between balance, package, etc whilst still enabling even firing. The R35 engine did not need to have the same bore spacing, bank stagger etc as the VQ35 engine, but Nissan wanted to carry over the VQ "DNA" as they say. The R35 engine is actually a bed plate design, which is different from the deep skirted block design of the VQ engines, and is a unique engine other than basic geometry.


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## Wink (May 29, 2007)

Oh yes, King Nismo and bonzelite, check all my other posts to see if I'm a man who should know or not. 

A few other snippet for you monkeys....

Piston pin diameter 23mm
Piston compression height 32.5mm
Counterweight radius 94.5mm (limits max capacity to 3.8L with fixed bay balance)
Max oil flow 60 l/min (although the pump delivers 120l/min at 6800 rpm, but obviously most of it is relieved by the PRV).

Max heat-to-oil (at VMax) approx 34 kW (which is why there is a bloody big oil cooler mounted in the fog light position
Max water flow approx 300 l/min (the VQ35 max water flow is only 180 l/min), with max heat-to-water of 137 kW
Max heat-to-air (for intercoolers) approx 41 kW......!


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Wink your the man. Thanks for making the gtr forum a better place and posting info worth reading.


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

Wink said:


> Oh yes, King Nismo and bonzelite, check all my other posts to see if I'm a man who should know or not.
> 
> A few other snippet for you monkeys....
> 
> ...



Hey...even kings were wrong sometimes LOL :chuckle: But, as I said before I need to stick to the old GT-R which I know about. This new car is too complicated for me...Trying to learn more about this car and still hold on to the knowledge of the old GT-Rs tuning "system overload" as GTC said...your the man and corrected me in my own thread. So the VR38 will be pretty much like the Flat 6 in the 997? only can get bored out a little? Doesn't matter really it is still a nice engine. And I thought the V6 was on par with the V8 in the 390? I ONLY post what I read nothing more.


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## RedBeauty84ZX (Jun 27, 2007)

LoL some people actually thought the VR38 was derived from the old VRH35L?! The engines have NOTHING....NOTHING in common besides the alluminum construction and VR first two letters in the engine code. The VRH35L was based off the VH45 used in the Infiniti Q45 back from 1990! Nissan wouldnt dare use that old technology in their 2008 Super car... use common sense people.


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

I for one knew that...I thought it was a 100% brand new engine.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Wink said:


> "Yes it is based on that V8 in the 390".
> 
> Sorry, but this is just stupid. In the first phase the cylinder heads, chain drive, water pump and valvetrain were carry over VQ35, and everything else was new...


Based on the R390's V8 or not, that doesn't make it a VQ. My premise is more about VQ-basis ---yes or no. VR prefix is of a prior Nissan V8. Why did they use VR, then? 

And a further question, can you then take standard fare VQ35 heads and swap them onto the R35 without consequence? 



> although the water pump was speeded up by reducing the number of teeth on the water pump sprocket from 31 to 29. For the 2nd phase it was again all new and improved (even over the 1st concept engines), with new cylinder heads, etc, but NOTHING from the 390 engine!!! The only carry over parts are valve spring collets, and the water pump from the latest VQ35 engine, but speeded up again.


And that still doesn't make it a VQ-based engine. People have been touting the VR38 to be a derivation of the VQ engine. And I don't believe it is. It's all new, specifically built for the GT-R. I have maintained this from the beginning.

Talk of the VRH, the old engine, did surface a while back. I was asking for confirmation, yes or no, if this was true since that was never mentioned again after the TMS. The VR prefix only ever appears in a V8 engine prior to this new one. 

They didn't put a VQ variant into the GT-R, which is the greater point. It is a new engine entirely. 







> Doh! Bank angles for V6 can be between 15 degrees (e.g. VW VR6), to 90 degrees (Rover KV6, Audi V6's etc). 60 degrees is used as this gives the best compromise between balance, package, etc whilst still enabling even firing.


Yes I know that. 

But 60 degrees is the best and most commonly used without use of a damper. My point was that a 60 degree bank angle appearing on the VQ, and then on the VR, doesn't make the VR a derivation of the VQ. Nissan would have used a 60-degree angle regardless. 



> The R35 engine did not need to have the same bore spacing, bank stagger etc as the VQ35 engine, but Nissan wanted to carry over the VQ "DNA" as they say. The R35 engine is actually a bed plate design, which is different from the deep skirted block design of the VQ engines, and is a unique engine other than basic geometry.


Yes. 

You have great specific information which is what I was asking for in the first place. 

The GT-R engine is not based on the VQ. And why they have used a VR code of a prior V8 iteration is still not answered. VR is a V8 prefix.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

This either adds to the confusion of origin of the VR prefix code, or sheds light on the issue. 

If the following info is true, then those claiming the VR38DETT has nothing to do with the VRH are incorrect. And will explain why Nissan carried the VR prefix --they did it for a specific reason as they could have used many other letters of the alphabet to designate the new GT-R engine --but they chose VR.

from:
VR38DETT Engine Overview - GT-R TECH : The Nissan GT-R Information Resource | GT-R Forums | GT-R Guides |

*"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability.*Then engine is rated at 480 horsepower, although speculators believe this is severely underrated due to the recent performance of the GT-R on the famous Nurburgring. Being as heavy as the GT-R is, and performing like it does, the speculators are probably correct.

Settling on a twin turbo V6 configuration, Nissan has developed an amazing engine. Check back often for updates as we learn more about the heart of Godzilla."


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."

So I was right? :clap: for me! I guess the information really won't hit the fan until the car comes out nex month in Japan. Bonzelite...as you can see I am TRYING to get used to this new GT-R. I don't bash the car like I did in the past but I am new to the V6 configuration. So about 60 degree this and that I don't have a much knowledge. Yes I understand what 60 degree means common sense tells me that but about the bank etc I will pass. I still believe someday someone will slap an RB26 in there..and I can't wait until that day comes. Something I know about and is easy to figure out. Also where are people getting their information from because everytime I post I get told it is wrong.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

King Nismo said:


> "The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."
> 
> So I was right? :clap: for me! I guess the information really won't hit the fan until the car comes out nex month in Japan. Bonzelite...as you can see I am TRYING to get used to this new GT-R. I don't bash the car like I did in the past but I am new to the V6 configuration. So about 60 degree this and that I don't have a much knowledge. Yes I understand what 60 degree means common sense tells me that but about the bank etc I will pass. I still believe someday someone will slap an RB26 in there..and I can't wait until that day comes. Something I know about and is easy to figure out. Also where are people getting their information from because everytime I post I get told it is wrong.


Evidently yes, mostly. VQ influence exists in the VR38DETT, as has been clearly stated and qualified. 

But I have been repeatedly flamed for making the claims insofar as 1) R35 has entirely new engine platform and 2) there is influence from a V8 origin -- even though these ideas are making much more sense.

IF the VR38DETT is outright VQ-based, then where is the Q? Huh? 

Nowhere in the VR38DETT code appears a Q. Where is it? 

In VRH there is the ancestory/vestigial H remaining to designate it's origins, ie, the VH. 

Moreover, the VQ series engines are so famous and strong and well-known, were the VR38DETT directly descended from the VQ, you'd see a Q vestigial coding in the NEW R35 engine. 

But Q is nowhere to be seen. Here are some logical codings that do not exist:

VRQ38DETT ---- nope
VQR38DETT -----nope

VQ38DETT ----nope
VQHR38DETT ---nope

Therefore, it is _*VR*_38DETT for a reason.

Nissan retains VR more than likely because of direct influence from an ancestoral engine platform. That is the only conclusion to be drawn. The R35 engine is not a VQ variant. Were it a VQ variant, that would have been trumpeted long and loudly in a VQ engine coding. And that does not exist in this case. 

Did Nissan use VN? or VD? or VF? VQ? or anything but R? nope. 

Why? They could have used any letter in the alphabet but chose R.

VRH 35-L ----> begets VR38DETT 

that is the only conclusion unless there is no logic or meaning to Nissan's engine coding system.


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

I thought nissan would have put a little beefed up version of the VQ in the new GT-R BEFORE all the information came to date. That was 1-4 years ago heck who didn't think that...I thought what the next guy thought...a twin turbo G35 coupe with AWD. I was hoping for that so the R34 can forever rain one of the best GT-Rs and the last REAL GT-R. I wanted Nissan to fail on this car greatly..have they done that? NO! Is it better than the R34 stock wise? YES! It still doesn't look better but it is a heck of a car (which I can't believe I am saying this right now) No where did I say it would have the exact same engine as the V8 in the 390 just in V6 config. read my post. I still don't fully understand this car but as I said I will when it comes out. This IS a brand new engine I don't think it is a bored out version of a VQ it might be I could be wrong. If its not then yes there should room for a stroker kit past 4L. The Z did it why can't the GT-R? I can't see Nissan letting that happen and some people may say its not about displacement I beg to differ. Just give it a few years this car will shine like no other! And it can start by cutting weight and a 6speed manual trans. BTW, why is it they can't do a 7spd manual?


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## RedBeauty84ZX (Jun 27, 2007)

bonzelite said:


> This either adds to the confusion of origin of the VR prefix code, or sheds light on the issue.
> 
> If the following info is true, then those claiming the VR38DETT has nothing to do with the VRH are incorrect. And will explain why Nissan carried the VR prefix --they did it for a specific reason as they could have used many other letters of the alphabet to designate the new GT-R engine --but they chose VR.
> 
> ...


It is not based off the old VR racing V8s...thats a rumor thats been around for a while now. Find one thing the two engines have in common and you may have some credability...but as far as I can tell it has NOTHING in common with the VR racing V8s.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

RedBeauty84ZX said:


> It is not based off the old VR racing V8s...thats a rumor thats been around for a while now. Find one thing the two engines have in common and you may have some credability...but as far as I can tell it has NOTHING in common with the VR racing V8s.


It's called a VR for a reason. Even if the engine is not literally blueprinted off the original blocks, it may very well be inspired by them, as is also true for some VQ influence as stated. 

The engine --AS I HAVE MAINTAINED-- IS NOT A VQ. It is NEW as in DIFFERENT.

AS WELL, IT IS NOT CALLED "VQ".... _ANYTHING. _ 

AGAIN ----> THE VR38DETT _*IS NOT A VQ AND IS NOT A VARIANT OF THE VQ.*_


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## RedBeauty84ZX (Jun 27, 2007)

bonzelite said:


> It's called a VR for a reason. Even if the engine is not literally blueprinted off the original blocks, it may very well be inspired by them, as is also true for some VQ influence as stated.
> 
> The engine --AS I HAVE MAINTAINED-- IS NOT A VQ. It is NEW as in DIFFERENT.
> 
> ...


It has A LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT more in common with the VQ then it does with the VR...it has NOTHING in common with the VR. Remember the VR V8s were just VH45s from the old Infiniti Q45s destroked with completley revised racing heads. You say you think its inspired by the racing VR engines....but with that inspiration what did they incorporate into the VR38??? I see nothing. Nissan never ONCE said it had ANYTHING to do with the older VR35HL, seems like just a coincidence that they are both designated VR to me. The VR35HL was never even a production engine. 

I will agree the VR38 is NOT a VQ....but it is also NOT based off of, inspired by, or a variant of any sort of the older VR racing V8s...


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Shhhtop. Shhhtop. The engine has not been modified yet. When it is, all will be answered in time. There's little point beating our bollocks against our foreheads in the interim.


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## Wink (May 29, 2007)

"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."

The VR38DETT engine is essentially a clean sheet of paper design, roughly based on the VQ35 & 40 geometry/DNA but that is all......no V8 racing input, that is just *marketing talk*, although the engine project manager from Nissan did try and get us to adopt a "combustion concept" from the racing era...but we couldn't due to turbocharger sizing issues. 

The engine design concept was ultimatley influenced by only a handfull of people, and without wanting to blow my own trumpet, I was one of the key people. As I said in previous comments, some ideas in the concept were NOT understood fully by the customer until recently!!!


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

So is the engine stronger than the RB26 or what? Since there are 3 different blocks how can you know for sure if it is stronger? I say the GT block is still on its level if you ask me. But hey...if not I have be wrong before.


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## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

Sorry for the hijack, but does anyone have anything I can use to reply to this statement about the new GTR engine:

"apparently its the same block bored out and twin turbo'd,and yes it is a renault engine"

The reference to the 'same block' is the 350 engine.

:chairshot


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Wink said:


> "The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."
> 
> The VR38DETT engine is essentially a clean sheet of paper design, roughly based on the VQ35 & 40 geometry/DNA but that is all......no V8 racing input, that is just *marketing talk*, although the engine project manager from Nissan did try and get us to adopt a "combustion concept" from the racing era...but we couldn't due to turbocharger sizing issues.
> 
> The engine design concept was ultimatley influenced by only a handfull of people, and without wanting to blow my own trumpet, I was one of the key people. As I said in previous comments, some ideas in the concept were NOT understood fully by the customer until recently!!!


Then VR code is pointless. wow. 

Thanks for that info. I stand corrected in a big way. 

(eats own foot and hat now)

The only thing true then was that it was a new engine from scratch.


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## RedBeauty84ZX (Jun 27, 2007)

Wink said:


> "The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."
> 
> The VR38DETT engine is essentially a clean sheet of paper design, roughly based on the VQ35 & 40 geometry/DNA but that is all......no V8 racing input, that is just *marketing talk*, although the engine project manager from Nissan did try and get us to adopt a "combustion concept" from the racing era...but we couldn't due to turbocharger sizing issues.
> 
> The engine design concept was ultimatley influenced by only a handfull of people, and without wanting to blow my own trumpet, I was one of the key people. As I said in previous comments, some ideas in the concept were NOT understood fully by the customer until recently!!!


Wink....why don't you do a big write up for us about everything you know . I know we are all dieing to know the things you know and i'm sure you cold be promoted to permanent honorary member by diong so


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

I DONT CARE THE GT BLOCK IS STILL MORE POWERFUL. Heavier but more powerful I am sure of it.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

RedBeauty84ZX said:


> Wink....why don't you do a big write up for us about everything you know . I know we are all dieing to know the things you know and i'm sure you cold be promoted to permanent honorary member by diong so


Good idea. 

Not much is publicly known about the VR38's development. I'd love to know, too. Please tell more.


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## RedBeauty84ZX (Jun 27, 2007)

King Nismo said:


> I DONT CARE THE GT BLOCK IS STILL MORE POWERFUL. Heavier but more powerful I am sure of it.


GT Block???? The VR38 likely weighs less then the iron block RB26...


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## Wink (May 29, 2007)

"So is the engine stronger than the RB26 or what? Since there are 3 different blocks how can you know for sure if it is stronger? I say the GT block is still on its level if you ask me. But hey...if not I have be wrong before". 

With regards to this engine, you can see all my threads, quite a bit of detail (there are obvious confidentiality issues  ...but now it is in production...:chuckle: )

As said previously, the engine structure was optimised for a maximum of 600 bhp, it is not like the RB26 block and over engineered. Obviously these days over engineering the product adds weight and cost, and mass effects fuel economy and emissions...EU and ULEV2 emissions are difficult enough to achieve in the first place, hence you simply can not make it bigger than it needs to be these days!!! Nissan are saying this is an engine that should NOT be modified, and it *does* break if run much above 600 bhp - just the way it was designed!! Failure mechanisms are numerous, but the main area would be the plasma coating/piston/rings. That said, the big end bearing is on the limit too. 

"apparently its the same block bored out and twin turbo'd,and yes it is a renault engine"

As I said, loads written on this already, but it is not a VQ35 block...this is diecast and deep skirted, the VR38DETT was designed to be sand cast (using the CosCast process) and is a ladder frame design. Design wise the VR38DETT block all different except for bore spacing, bank stagger and bolt spacing - is taller (deck height 244mm Vs 215mm), different cooling jacket (water jacket depth of 60mm, different layout), closed deck (VQ35 is open deck), long head bolts design, different oil gallary layout, bigger main bearings etc, etc, etc.


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

Wink,

just because of what you just said. I strongly strongly believe that the RBs will go into the new GT-R. Think about it, the C6 Z06 block is the same way...most people go to the C5R iron block to make big power. I know smokey might get his hands dirty with this one haha. So from what you just told me the RB26 is a stronger engine? 600HP isn't alot the car is fast but now I am getting turned off with this car. I doubt I would be able to hand 800whp but the fact that I can someday live with it is a option. That isn't the case with this new VR38. So long new GT-R I think I will stick with the old GT-Rs at least engine wise. But I believe a company might come out with something. What is nissan saying the internals can't handle the power of the block itself?


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## Wink (May 29, 2007)

"I strongly strongly believe that the RBs will go into the new GT-R."...heh? You mean people may fit this engine afterwards, cos obviously Nissan won't fit it as it doesn't achieve ULEV2 emissions for a start. 

With regards to the 600Bhp, I am talking about a genuine 600 Bhp at a stabilised compressor out temperature rather than a figure factored up off a rolling road......believe me when I say there is a BIG difference. 

I'm sure the engine could be tuned to more than 600Bhp, but obviously to the detriment of engine life. 

We had an R34 as a benchmark vehicle versus the first prototypes...around the track at Hethel the R35 simply blew the R34 away from an engine performance point of view...the dynamic response of the RB26 is very poor in comparison with the VR38 engine from a non-boosted (obviously as it is much higher capacity) and boosted point of view, with the VR38 delivering some boost from as low as 1400 rpm, and high levels of boost avalible from 1800 onwards....all the way to 7600 rpm on the development engines!


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## King Nismo (Sep 22, 2006)

So do you think what I wanted to do well thought about doing was a good idea? Swapping my RB for a VR38 in the R34? I want to do it because it is lighter I don't need that much power. I know the power of the car now 1200whp is stupid for a street car.


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## RedBeauty84ZX (Jun 27, 2007)

King Nismo said:


> Wink,
> 
> just because of what you just said. I strongly strongly believe that the RBs will go into the new GT-R. Think about it, the C6 Z06 block is the same way...most people go to the C5R iron block to make big power. I know smokey might get his hands dirty with this one haha. So from what you just told me the RB26 is a stronger engine? 600HP isn't alot the car is fast but now I am getting turned off with this car. I doubt I would be able to hand 800whp but the fact that I can someday live with it is a option. That isn't the case with this new VR38. So long new GT-R I think I will stick with the old GT-Rs at least engine wise. But I believe a company might come out with something. What is nissan saying the internals can't handle the power of the block itself?


Wink is saying that the VR38 was built to make a maximum of 600HP RELIABLY. The RB26 was NOT designed to make 600HP reliable from the factory....in fact 600HP is pushing the factory RB26 pistons to their upper limits. The upper limits of this VR38 engine should be higher then the RB26. The ONLY advantage the RB has over this new VR from a maximum power stand point is the iron construction, and that only comes to play at EXTREME power levels.


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## 240silv (Nov 24, 2007)

King Nismo said:


> Well you can laugh at them now! Nissan wouldn't stick a VQ in there. I want to see what the thing will be like here in the US. But hopefully it won't get into the wrong hands. Ricers or business men who know nothing about its history and just bought it because it was new car and it is fast won't even drive it over the speed limit kind of people. I think that is why I somewhat hate this car it will be left hand drive from the factory...aagh what a turn off. I looks so strange being left hand drive. I want to wait to see what happens...I don't care about the car I can about that engine. Personally I want to get my hands on a REAL 100% KPGC10 Hakosuka and swap a VR38 into it. Not sure if it will work but can't do a thing until it comes out. From one of the videos I saw...the car sounds a step up from the VQs in the 350Z and G35 coupe. Sounds a little louder and meaner but it does kind of sound like it which I was somewhat surprised...When I saw Carlos Ghosn driving it almost sounded like a stock RB. I guess we ALL have to wait until parts come out for the car.


Honestly the VR sounds so dam quiet for a haul azz engine and as for the ricer/granny drivers, I crap in their window J/K. Drive it like it was designed to driven, 175+ flippen every one off on the way to the track :runaway:


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Wink said:


> As said previously, the engine structure was optimised for a maximum of 600 bhp, it is not like the RB26 block and over engineered. Obviously these days over engineering the product adds weight and cost, and mass effects fuel economy and emissions...EU and ULEV2 emissions are difficult enough to achieve in the first place, hence you simply can not make it bigger than it needs to be these days!!! Nissan are saying this is an engine that should NOT be modified, and it *does* break if run much above 600 bhp - just the way it was designed!! Failure mechanisms are numerous, but the main area would be the plasma coating/piston/rings. That said, the big end bearing is on the limit too.
> 
> "apparently its the same block bored out and twin turbo'd,and yes it is a renault engine"
> 
> As I said, loads written on this already, but it is not a VQ35 block...this is diecast and deep skirted, the VR38DETT was designed to be sand cast (using the CosCast process) and is a ladder frame design. Design wise the VR38DETT block all different except for bore spacing, bank stagger and bolt spacing - is taller (deck height 244mm Vs 215mm), different cooling jacket (water jacket depth of 60mm, different layout), closed deck (VQ35 is open deck), long head bolts design, different oil gallary layout, bigger main bearings etc, etc, etc.


So, actually, there isn't much in common with the VQ --it's an entirely new engine. It seems like it is not at all based on a VQ design.


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## GTR R34 (Oct 2, 2002)

Who needs more than 600 hp anyway.
Maby company's like os giken will come with stronger stroker engine of the vq engine like they have done whit the rb26.
:smokin:


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