# DRAG GT-R'S OVERRATED?



## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

i'v been on this fourm for a couple of years now and one thing i'v noticed is how much money is being spent on gt-r get lower and lower 1/4 times 

what times we into now,8's?

this got me thinking is a skyline really all that when it comes to drag racing?

was on the boost junky site.:BOOSTJUNKY.COM:. and seen some of the times these old 2wd bmw where making!

is the skyline being left behind by other marks?


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## Diadoraz10 (Jul 26, 2007)

Most of the problem with the skyline in drag racing is that it gets airborne during take off due to the immense amount of power it makes. And during the time that the car is airborne (physically off the tarmac) that time is deducted from the actualy 1/4 mile time. So a skyline running 8's on the 1/4 mile is realistly running low to mid 4's.


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes + good point...

I'm always amazed at how far folk go chasing times on the quarter (i still find it massively imressive tho:thumbsup: ).. I'd say you could go faster or at least as fast with a huge amount less ££££'s with other cars.. 

The skyline was designed as a touring car and is incredible on the race track. All the things that make it such a great car are usually junked when drag racing..

American cars/ supras/rx7's all manage 8 second 1/4's for much less money..

Having a quick Skyline on the 1/4 usually makes it pretty useless for track stuff which IMHO is what the car was designed for


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Diadoraz10 said:


> Most of the problem with the skyline in drag racing is that it gets airborne during take off due to the immense amount of power it makes. And during the time that the car is airborne (physically off the tarmac) that time is deducted from the actualy 1/4 mile time. So a skyline running 8's on the 1/4 mile is realistly running low to mid 4's.



lol lol lol lol lol!!


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## git-r (Nov 15, 2005)

Oh and BTW i think the skyline record is 7.9 @190ish mph in an r32 gtr


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Different sports for different people, I think more than anything its the passion for the car and engine that keeps people pouring their money in to it, yes swap in some american engine and you will get good times too, but so what, anyone can do that, I thinks its the just the challenge that is pushing people to make them. 


Just my thoughts on it really, i dont understand drag racing either, its cool to watch and the numbers are pretty mind boggling when you sit and think about it, and its by no means an easy thing to control these monsters. BUT, i think watching rally or track is much more fun for me personally.


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## MacGTR (Dec 31, 2006)

The record is about 7.5 seconds, maybe a bit less now?


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Maybe im missing the point of this thread, but its obvious why Skylines aren't mega fast in the grand scheme of things- they 4wd.

Also the fact most go for the stock body classes, so no tubbed arches either.

And on from that many go for road legal setups too.

Forgetting the 4wd crap, if you went the traditional drag car route, a Skyline would be as good a base of any other car of similar size with an engine of similar size/power


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

The current fastest GTR has done 7.57 @ 191mph, and with the power it was making at the time - if the RB26 was put into a modern drag specific RWD chassis (the GTR was full chassis still running 4WD) I'd say it would potentially have been a 6s capable setup.

Will find out how the car runs this weekend with the new setup.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

If you want to go as fast as possible for as little money as possible a GTR is definatly not the way to go but I know how it is to want to push the type of car you love to the limits.

We chose the 240z for the simple fact it was massive money to get a same weight GTR to run the same times, we wanted a "mule" to test street engines and not have to worry about blowing axles, diffs and transmissions etc.
The engine data we get will transfere over to a GTR and seeing as the 240z is the same weight as a reasonably stripped out GTR the times in a properly setup GTR should be aproximatly the same too.

I see a couple of guys above talk about tube cars with skyline shells being as good as any other tube car that looks like anything else and I agree....BUT....

Whats everyones opinions on a lightweight tube car that "looks" like a GTR or skyline that then goes on to beat the 7.5 record, is it fair to then say that car is the fastest GTR or skyline in the world? 

Rob


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## Totalburnout (May 15, 2005)

professor matt said:


> is the skyline being left behind by other marks?



Just yours bitch 

its frightening when you look at some of the dahlback cars, audi coupes, bmws etc. and see the times they can do.

i love the skyline for what it is, its never goin to be _the_ fastest but imo its one the most enjoyable


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## roadie (Feb 6, 2006)

Watching some of those vids from Japan, you'd almost think the 4wd is hurting the 1/4 mile times. Let's face it, this is "big three" "FR" territory.
However, what Rob has done with the 240 has been stunning :bowdown1: .


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## Lono9885 (Apr 11, 2005)

GTRs hold world records for the 4WD 1/4 and have done for some time. Not much has come close. In fact they mostly dominate the world list.

Yes indeed there are cars out there in the US especially of the RWD variety that are hitting consistently low 1/4s, however I think you'll find that some of the quickest are funny cars, basically just mocked up fibregalss shells of the original car over a tubular space frame...often not even running the original cars engine. 

Also the GTR was doing low passes years ago...it's taken along time for the RWD cars to catch up and start hitting these times.

Not being biased here but my point is that GTR was doing it first and doing it best the others are pretenders...besides what would you rather drag in...I'd choose good ol Godzirra all day long thanks.


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## rasonline (Mar 24, 2005)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Whats everyones opinions on a lightweight tube car that "looks" like a GTR or skyline that then goes on to beat the 7.5 record, is it fair to then say that car is the fastest GTR or skyline in the world?
> 
> Rob


I think that it should really be a proper car that gets the right to the title if it goes faster and tube-frame chassis just doesn't seem to qualify. 

But the reality is that if a tube car does beat the record it probalby will be awarded the title. To those who are better informed, when the record is broken the de-throned car will then look that much more impressive when some newer lightweight tube car that's fully tricked out only manages to go a 10th or so faster.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Lono9885 said:


> GTRs hold world records for the 4WD 1/4 and have done for some time. Not much has come close


Some stuff is bloody close, and 4cyl too, not to mention a lot more stock looking than most the top GTRs!

(right hand lane)


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

True but the problem is if the general public can look at a car and say "thats a Skyline" or a "Celica" or whatever, its pretty hard to then turn round and say its not really one if it does a good time.

The guy who has the fastest EVO in the world is not even close to being like a street car or having most of its factory chassis but its still known as the fastest EVO in the world, same with the subaru's I think.

There are some dorrslammers and Pro Jap cars that look very close if not exactly like tubbed street cars untill you get pretty close.

Lets just say Project GTS gets under 7.5 (which I'm sure he will) would it be fair to then call it the quickest skyline in the world??

Rob


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

Rob, I think the fastest EVO just has tube front end - its still otherwise based on the factory chassis? But yeah... point definitely made and to some degree I agree as well. I think the AWD thing is where people really focus with a lot of this.

The Heat Treatments GTR is still 4WD, DOCILE is still 4WD, John Shepherds Talon however still has interior/dash etc it had from factory whilst still being an AWD thing.

I reckon Project GTS fully deserves to be called the fastest Skyline if it goes that quick, its still based on the factory chassis. Things like the Titans 6s drag cars have nothing but the engine block in common with the cars they came from....


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Project GTS is not even close to any original chassis now, its full tube frame and carbon, it just looks like a GTS.

Same with the new 34 in NZ, looks just like a tubbed 34, what if he gets under 7.5 and is ahead of Project GTS, is it then fair to call it the fastest skyline in the world?


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

I dont think it should.

It should have the skyline original chassis. Like Sumos, Keith cowies, Duke, heat treatments, hks 33.

Mick


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## Lith (Oct 5, 2006)

My bad, I thought Project GTS was just tubbed for some stupid reason.


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

Laughing out loud - my car is tubbed not full tube  
anyone doesnt believe me they are welcome to speak to andy R or crawl under & have a look :chuckle: 

But in the current climate of various people waving their dicks around & claiming to be the greatest I'm going to leave everyone to bitch between themselves :chuckle: 

I built the car for me not anyone else & you know what it's great :chuckle: 

People still forget how far behind the UK is in terms of times - i cant help laughing at how much posturing goes on when to be blunt we are light years behind still. 


I wont claim it can beat everyone, i wont claim it can beat every Japanese Tuner out there, I wont claim i am any good at driving:chuckle: 

I will confirm it costs a bloody fortune to run & i would do it all again :smokin:


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

I'd claim you also use a PROPER Skyline John - none of this GTR crap  

GTST FTW :thumbsup:


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## car killer (Oct 27, 2005)

Trev said:


> I'd claim you also use a PROPER Skyline John - none of this GTR crap
> 
> GTST FTW :thumbsup:


GTR FTW actually as he is using a GTR engine :chuckle:


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

trackday addict said:


> Laughing out loud - my car is tubbed not full tube
> anyone doesnt believe me they are welcome to speak to andy R or crawl under & have a look :chuckle:


I've seen under the car, and inside it, maybe its not quite full tube but its far beyond a simple tub job too, most of the original floor is gone, the original fire wall is gone and from memory it has alot taken out of the front inner guards and I thought it had fabricated x-members etc, does it still have original front chassis rails?

NOT that it matters in any way, in fact, I was defending the car being able to claim being the fastest skyline in the world and I think it should claim it if it beats Heat treatments time, sorry if you took my comments any other way, its just some people spoke like it was a just a tubbed street car and its clearly far from it and far lighter than a 'just tubbed' GTS would be, 800kg didn't you say?

I'm with John, build a car how you want it, fall into whatever class you want to run in, beat your own times, continue to strive for improvement, let your times do the talking and have fun cause at the end of the day unless these Lemon/Endless 'match ups' actually happen its all just talk.

Rob


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## Jason abz (Oct 3, 2002)

I applaude trackday addict to be honest.
The one person who says he enjoys drag racing for what it does for him.
Unless i have misunderstood the thread completely of course?
I think far too much "respect" or "credit" is given to those who chase the timing slips . Yup, it costs a bloody arm and a leg to do it, yes its a fantastic acheivement and very competitive however does it really make any difference to the average guy on here driving his Skyline on a nice B road on a sunny Sunday?
I perhaps don`t come across too well here and i will state i am not slagging off those that choose to persue this field of interest for their cars however i don`t treat them any differently to anyone else on the forum to be honest. Having pumped heaps of cash into a car and made it very fast in my eyes doesn`t make you any nicer / freindlier / likeable than a first time buyer or forum user. In some cases its seem to turn people into monsters that we know them not to be in the "real world".
My 2p.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

car killer said:


> GTR FTW actually as he is using a GTR engine :chuckle:


The car is a GTST though.


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

Trev said:


> The car is a GTST though.


please tell me how much of the car is still Gts

40% of the chassis and that would be about it:chairshot


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## Nick MW (Aug 15, 2003)

I have never really understood all of this. 

If the car is no longer a predominantly road use car and modified for whichever sport you like to follow - great. 

ProjectGTST's chassis has been modified to improve it - excellent. All of the other cars competing have also been so heavily modified that they bear little resemblance mechanically to the original car either. 

Is the definition of remaining a Skyline keeping its original chassis rails then?All other changes such as 3.0 conversions, suspension, sequantial gearboxes, rollcages etc are not relevant though?


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Tommy F said:


> please tell me how much of the car is still Gts
> 
> 40% of the chassis and that would be about it:chairshot


:blahblah: Get back in your box :blahblah:


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

Trev said:


> :blahblah: Get back in your box :blahblah:


Why should i

You said it was a Gts and i asked you how much of the car was still Gts


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

My last post on this in hopefully a hormoneless way  

I get a bit precious about the car sometimes because i have had it for 4 years from what was a completely std car without even an air filter or exhaust mod to what it is today & it's come a long way.

I suppose it's hard for some others to get their head around why the car is what it is today & why anyone would bother with it being a GTST.

At the start in 2006 we started around 13.5 secs spinning up the whole 1/4 mile & it was a pig to drive, by the end of the year it was down to 9.9 & still a pig to drive  the bigger issue was smashed driveshafts on the start line etc etc. At the same time we were getting absolutely mullered by the Duke car etc - which to be honest i really didnt mind as it was amazing to watch Tim take the whole game forward to a new level. Fantastic times watching Tim & Ben break new ground in the UK
i didnt whine or whinge & just went away & thought right:

A/ We carry on spending silly money trying to sort the rear suspension & drive shafts out to save a few 10ths & being honest will still get mullered

or

B/ Create something that noone has done before with a GTST 

Option B made the most sense & so the current guise was born. There was the option to go 100% spaceframed or even fully tubed but i didnt want to lose the whole identity of the original car i had bought (being honest if i was going to go this route i'd start from scratch).

Yes the car has got an RB26 in now - simple reason more power - same reasons why others run RB30's or hi decks.

To be honest i expected someone to have followed my footsteps already with another GTST & from what i understand this is happening now out in australia with an RB30 monster due out soon.

The whole thing has been about evolution & change - ok it hasnt been done before but that doesnt make it wrong, it has been designed to be a 5 year project to really maximise what a RWD GTST can do end of story. If you have a 2WD car that is struggling to compete you either accept it or move it forward.

Rather than whinge about it I would kind of expect others to want to improve their cars & times anyway the same way we have ie/ is everyone losing sight of the fact there is an amazing R32 GTR out in NZ with a 7.57 under it's belt that will get even quicker :smokin: 

I have no idea where ProjectGTST will finish time wise - we have another 3 years to develop the car (yes we have a goal/time in mind - but whether we get there in the end who knows).

yes it has got carbon doors, yes it has been tubbed but i will not apologise for that - it's a drag car for christ sake designed to go as quick as possible. On the reverse side it's also been built to comply 100% with all latest rules & carrying some additional weight because of that ie/ titanium bellhousing, monster cage etc - thats the rules.

anyway let's hope ANY UK car can get into the 7's without a load of bitching & squabbling along the way - it's called progress


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I agree, always did.
I dropped in the question about your car being able to claim to be the fastest skyline in the world if you beat heat treatments time, not because I didn't think it should if it did, I asked because there's a beautiful full tube 34 with RB30 in NZ now, another similar car being done in Australia aparently and obviously my street 240z won't cut it in NZs Pro Import scene with 2 x 6 second cars already here and god know how many more being built or on the way from the US.
If I was to do a lightweight skyline with RB I'd be aiming to be dropping times considerably but then if I got the best time (highly unlikely) would it be eligable to be called the fastest skyline if it was a tube car that just looks like a skyline? Once again it comes down to opinion.

Should Heat treatments have the fastest 350z in the world and should Rayglass have the fastest Celica in the world just because they are instantly recognisable to the general public as a 350z and a Celica?, Personally I think they should.

Now here's one for you..............
What if someone built a 4wd tube GTR starting from a blank sheet of paper and went about it in a totally different way to every other GTR drag car in the world, it was RB and 4wd and looked like a GTR but thats about it, what then??

Rob


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Diadoraz10 said:


> Most of the problem with the skyline in drag racing is that it gets airborne during take off due to the immense amount of power it makes. And during the time that the car is airborne (physically off the tarmac) that time is deducted from the actualy 1/4 mile time. So a skyline running 8's on the 1/4 mile is realistly running low to mid 4's.


They are running 4s, it's only from an inertial observer's point of view that they appear to be running 8s.


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

It's an interesting one Robbie & i think it's a real hard one in europe for everyone to get their head around because we are yet to see it here in the flesh yet.

In Aus/NZ & the US it's not that new & the results are accepted because it's becoming "normal" - by normal i mean seeing fully spaceframed jap cars running low 7's or even high 6's :bowdown1: 

In europe that is still very much in almost Pro mod territory & here that means 100% american muscle without question. Now to see 2 pro mods head to head is mindblowing & i'm sure when that happens in europe with jap cars (and it is bound to eventually whether people like it or not) then it will become more accepted.

The other flip side is that regardless it is still very very unusual to see a 7 or 6sec jap car versus a more traditional v8 monster as fair to say the jap turbo cars are a hell of alot more difficult to run consistently run after run than the supercharged cars.

Would i love to eventually see fully spaceframed jap cars taking on the american cars in pro mod - jesus yes I would & having spoken to some of the guys in super pro et & comp elimanator here who run the v'8's etc they would also love to see it.

It's just to new a concept yet here for people to get their head around it.
now if HTL's 350Z & the Rayglass Celica came over for a demo run i'm sure it would be interesting to see peoples reactions :clap:  

At the moment my car is slap bang in the middle ie/ not std but not spaceframed or tubed - would i have a problem if a GTR or GTST ran quicker than me that was spaceframed no i wouldnt.








R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I agree, always did.
> I dropped in the question about your car being able to claim to be the fastest skyline in the world if you beat heat treatments time, not because I didn't think it should if it did, I asked because there's a beautiful full tube 34 with RB30 in NZ now, another similar car being done in Australia aparently and obviously my street 240z won't cut it in NZs Pro Import scene with 2 x 6 second cars already here and god know how many more being built or on the way from the US.
> If I was to do a lightweight skyline with RB I'd be aiming to be dropping times considerably but then if I got the best time (highly unlikely) would it be eligable to be called the fastest skyline if it was a tube car that just looks like a skyline? Once again it comes down to opinion.
> 
> ...


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

trackday addict said:


> At the moment my car is slap bang in the middle ie/ not std but not spaceframed or tubed


Hi John

What is this then if its not tubed and spaceframed this is not a dig i just want to find out.


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

Tommy - give Andy Robinson a call - i'm sure he will explain it to you very clearly (called backhalfing or tubbing) basically new back end behind the drivers seat. Front end you can still see the original chassis rails & floor.
Whole shell is still the original car apart from the doors which are now carbon

This is a Spaceframed car ie/ complete fibre glass shell & complete tube throughout.
Wraps off Rayglass Celica -- Performance Car | Modified drift, drag and import machines


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

It may not be a 100% tube car but its pretty damn close judging by those pix, looks like it has a fabricated front x-member and lower arms and lighweight drag struts etc.
I can see some of the original chassis rails with box section inside them.
Does it have the original front chassis rails in the engine bay and inner guards?

Not that is matters but it is clear its not just a tubbed R33 shell with a cage, it is what it is and runs what it runs and best of luck to you.

Out of interest, what is the minimum weight you can be in the class it runs in?

Rob


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

Class rules here Rob, 

minimum weight
6-cylinder (2 power adders): 1181 kg
All weights include driver, verified after the run.


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

Tommy F said:


> Hi John
> 
> What is this then if its not tubed and spaceframed this is not a dig i just want to find out.


that Tommy WILL be the fastest Skyline in Europe by the end of this year :chuckle:


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

Andy W said:


> that Tommy WILL be the fastest Skyline in Europe by the end of this year :chuckle:


Well if its not Abbey had better shut up shop :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: 

Or just work on VWs lol


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## munro (Oct 3, 2006)

The hard bit is getting a 4wd to run fast over the 1/4 mile.it is way too easy to build and run a light car with 2ft wide slicks on the rear.

That car above does nothing for me,i will be going to the new pro street series to see the true skylines running side by side.


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## Lag Monster (Aug 16, 2007)

Andy W said:


> that Tommy WILL be the fastest Skyline in Europe by the end of this year :chuckle:



Lol have you told the rest of the proper Skyline boys this. Ones with the Skyline chassis. IE Sumo. M6beg. Keith Cowie.

You need to wake up Andy.

I suppose you don't really know much about skylines though.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Lag Monster said:


> Lol have you told the rest of the proper Skyline boys this. Ones with the Skyline chassis. IE Sumo. M6beg. Keith Cowie.
> 
> You need to wake up Andy.
> 
> I suppose you don't really know much about skylines though.


Well your pathetic statement shows EVERYONE that you know nothing about Skylines! :chuckle: 

P.S. Andy is SP Autos - A SKYLINE TUNER so he knows a few things


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

Munro said:


> The hard bit is getting a 4wd to run fast over the 1/4 mile.it is way too easy to build and run a light car with 2ft wide slicks on the rear.
> 
> That car above does nothing for me,i will be going to the new pro street series to see the true skylines running side by side.


you mean the one where some of the cars arn't safe enough to run at the POD


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

Lag Monster said:


> Lol have you told the rest of the proper Skyline boys this. Ones with the Skyline chassis. IE Sumo. M6beg. Keith Cowie.
> 
> You need to wake up Andy.
> 
> I suppose you don't really know much about skylines though.


:blahblah: :blahblah: 

as i see it this NEW playground series was invented for 2 reasons

1, some of the above cars DON'T meet safty regulations

2, some are scared of being 2nd to a GTS


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Munro said:


> The hard bit is getting a 4wd to run fast over the 1/4 mile.it is way too easy to build and run a light car with 2ft wide slicks on the rear.
> 
> That car above does nothing for me,i will be going to the new pro street series to see the true skylines running side by side.


Gotta love the HATERS


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

arrrggghhh ffs can it not descend into this every time 

I certainly am not saying my car will do anything this year as who knows to be honest - all of these things are fragile/fickle & it doesnt take an awful lot to suddenly have a huge issue to put you out of the game for a few months with another huge bill & a nagging wife going ballistic "if you have one"  .

Fair to say all of the drivers get on well enough, may not be the best of friends here or there but plenty of mutual respect. 
I made a couple of stupid bloody posts last year & apologised accordingly to Andy direct & full credit to Andy he accepted them gracefully.

For gods sake everyone let the cars do the talking & we should all be enjoying watching it whilst it happens.

At some stage in the future without a shadow of a doubt there will be a fully space framed car with an RB engine in - either 2 or 4wd that hit's 6 seconds in the US, Aus, NZ, Dubai/Saudi or F East & I have no doubt whoever it is will claim to have the worlds fastest skyline - if it is accepted as such in the those countries how on earth will the Uk explain their unwillingness to accept it without it looking like sour grapes?. (p.s i dont know the answer !! )

Maybe there should be a std record for cars with std chassis & a seperate whatever goes with an RB engine record (again i dont know the answer ) but at the back of my mind would there still not be shedloads of bickering then between people arguing over the std record ie/ well he's moved suspension points or he's put a flat floor in, or i think the record should be for cars with an MOT, or well they havnt got the right roll cage or bellhousing so they are underweight etc etc- where does it all stop ??


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

I think there should be 2 main groups:

1) Fully road legal in full street trim ie: full interior, mufflers, full exhausts, street tyres etc and thats a street class and the car should race in such a state that it could drive home from the strip and be legal on the road.

2) open season, do what you want pro class.

Rob


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

trackday addict said:


> arrrggghhh ffs can it not descend into this every time
> 
> I certainly am not saying my car will do anything this year as who knows to be honest - all of these things are fragile/fickle & it doesnt take an awful lot to suddenly have a huge issue to put you out of the game for a few months with another huge bill & a nagging wife going ballistic "if you have one"  .
> 
> ...


anyway more important things to attend to now - just found out one of the bloody kids has nits - family debug again - got to love schools:chairshot


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*GTR*

Drag GTR's overrated?: To someone who hasnt done it nor has the personal desire to do it, it maybe overated as you dont know what it feels like to do those speeds. Just as you dont care for it doesnt make it a waste of time or effort, its a hobby so those that do it and get satisfaction from doing it.

If its a £/ET question then again if you havent done it you have no idea what involved in doing it and why its rather hard to do ( only harder than proven RWD/FWD - not impossible by any means ). Building any car for a big target is always expensive if you do it from the ground up, no matter what you are building, whether a GTR or otherwise.

Classes and records : It seems everyone has thier own idea of what a record is that suits thier car ' mines the quickest white R32 with stickers on it in the UK ', everyone can make a record if the title suits your car, why not.

In terms of UK records, the legitimate records that are ''officiial'' are those set down by real rules, as per the rules which have been produced by Santa Pod / Pod's regulation staff that make/amend/add to rules for many other catagories in drag racing. Sadly some people feel that Santa Pod has come commercial decision with regards the rules however thats not the case. Fact is if you dont specify clear rules to work with, who knows the limitations of whats fair and whats not to count as a record ( as per whats going on with this whole ' lets all go to ''shakey'' ' nonsense thats going on at the moment).

Hiding from rules and regulations is not a credible motorsport that people will respect or admire unless they are just spectators for the fun. If you want to spout records you better make sure you do it in a bonafide way that will be respected or who cares what you are doing, you'll just be the quckest ' white R32 with stickers - we think '. 

I own an RS200 with an RB26 in it - I am the quickest rally driver the world has ever seen, you should see me in the green lanes round our way, I am quicker than Loeb - but fick the rules of WRC, who cares, thats tosh its a big WRC commercial conspiracy, I'll stay in my back lanes and quote being the world champion as that suits my situation best..... does that put this into perspective?

Without rules, there is no real winners, only make believe champions.

Thats a local opinion based on the nonsense in the UK right now. 

From a worldwide perspective I think its difficult to attain what the rules are for claiming the quickest 4wd or skyline etc as there are no clear rules as what the car should be ( as per the above comments ) due to the differences in governing bodies or classes around the world. I think it will get to the stage that the quickest person ( currently HT ) for a 4WD car will always be the quickest and from there the sub divisions of ' yeah but mine uses petrol ' etc etc will fall down the ranks from there and they will be respected on thier own merits ( but not claim records based on those sub divisions as you are not the quickest ).

Of course all that is a complete contradiction of the 'local' opinion I just aired but the choice is here in the UK and thats the difference. We have rules in our country we have boundaries and a box drawn of what the targets are so there is no reason to stretch of pull it about to suit, the rules have been laid down - and by people who know how to make safe drag rules - as has the criteria as to what a record counts for ( the whole backing it up issue which was also released by Pod to clarify records in future ).

Building a car or modifying it to suit the box of records and running it elsewhere is fine, but we are not seeing that, what we are seeing is people wanting to race elsewhere as the rules dont exist as they should.

Thats fine, do it, but be ready to be pulled down a peg the minute you start claiming records if your car isnt to spec as it should be. We have rules for everyone to work with, you dont stick to em, who cares what you do with your car in a ''records'' sense. This is discounting your personal desire to use your car and get the best from it, if thats your goal and you wont want to claim records, good luck to you do what you want and run what you want - but dont come into the world of people who do care for rules and expect to be counted as an equal.

In 2008 no-one has run yet and things will unfold as usual. I am pleased I saw this thead and was able to say something that needed to be said before the season starts and people get carried away. In future anyone who fits the non compliance criteria but claims a record, this thread should be dug up and put in thier face as far as I am concerned, thats my personal say on this situation as one drag racer to another.

Good to luck everyone in 2008, lets hope for a safe and fantastic season with more records broken throughout all classes. I am keen to see what happens in FWD this year, now that will be worth seeing, the first 9 - not as keen as I am at seeing 4WD though, I am looking forward to feeling a twin setup of a pair of HKS T04Z's


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## SmigzyGTR (Mar 20, 2006)

Andy Barnes said:


> I am looking forward to feeling a twin setup of a pair of HKS T04Z's


WHAT!?!?!?!

Dear god :clap: 2008 is going to be another fantastic year for UK drag GTR's. Here's to watching the times tumble.:thumbsup:


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

> as per the rules which have been produced by Santa Pod / Pod's regulation staff


Not being a drag racer can I ask a question???? Does Santa Pod decide what the UK drag rules are or is that still the remit of RAC MSA/FIA?? Obviously I would think they get to modify their own local rules within the framework of MSA rules no??

I have followed the bitching on other threads about different venues and can only say from a laymans viewpoint that Santa Pod is not the UK's only drag venue so if folks want to go and race at another venue than thats their choice surely?? 

I cant see why folks are getting so wound up.

TT


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Watch out boys the Romanians are comming :

PROSTREETROMANIA

hahahaha



Smokey :thumbsup:


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Rules*

Rick from Pod is best placed to accurately answer you however whilst there is a blue book specifically for drag racing which is produced by the MSA, the MSA get guidance from various drag specialists and Santa Pod has Kjell who works there who is active on all rules and regs for drag racing right upto Top Fuel etc andis regarded one of the most experienced persons to agree/set rules for drag competitions are far as I know.

I could be slightly wrong and hopefully Rick @ Pod can confirm further.

Like anything there are certain individuals that are experts at things ( in this case drag ) and the people who make rules ( like the MSA ) lean on those individuals for guidance and Santa Pod employs people of that caliber which is why Santa Pod introduced rules about Jap drags.

Organisers ( in this case Pod ) then go to the MSA and advise thier plans and how they fit into existing rules/regs or make new ones which need to be approved etc.

Certainly I am not an expert of these drag matters so I am happy to listen to those that are and produce my car to comform to proven safety standards that are in place to _minimise_ the risk of getting hurt or me hurting anyone else. Its conforting to know someone cares about what we get upto on the track.

We've all been ( japcars ) doing this drag stuff for the last 5 minutes and now everyones an expert ( myself included ). One thing we can all learn is to listen to people who have been doing this alot longer than us all and respect that, we're being advised what we should do, only a fool would ignor it.

Andy


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Andy Barnes said:


> Drag GTR's overrated?: I am looking forward to feeling a twin setup of a pair of HKS T04Z's




Andy you should of gone for two big ones like me.    


Mick


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Cheers for clearing that up Andy....

Although from reading your reply it might appear that 'The Pod' may have some conflict of interest if they have their own people who have the MSA's ear on regs etc. Now i'm not suggesting it IS the case but these individuals are perfectly placed to propose regs that may, in effect, have an impact on other venues' ability to host such events.

Now I fully agree that safety IS paramount however motorsport IS dangerous and the folks that take part SHOULD be fully aware of that....Having competed in motorsport myself (stage rallying) I know that the MSA preach that at every opportunity. That said the rulemakers have to strike a balance whereby they increase safety without alienating the guy who just wants to run his car up the strip, albeit in a car that may be at the faster end of the spectrum. It will be a fine balance but we dont need 'nanny' rules starting to encroach where they are not needed.
Again I am speaking from a non-drag perspective but also as someone who has participated in motorsport... When you start forcing participants to adopt top-level safety features when its debateable that they are required then the costs spiral. I know that prepping a rally car is not exactly inexpensive but if clubman class cars were mandated to adopt WRC levels of equipment then it wouldnt be viable for a lot of guys out there who are happy with the risks in their class of competition. Again, motorsport IS dangerous and we, as competitors know this and still get on with it. 

TT


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

Andy

I dont know why you give a shit anyway.

Its not as if you go there and race anyone lol


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Tommy F said:


> Andy
> 
> I dont know why you give a shit anyway.
> 
> Its not as if you go there and race anyone lol


Who else is there who can compete with him, or more to the point is willing to compete with him, without spitting dummies and running off to shakespeare?


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## munro (Oct 3, 2006)

Grex said:


> Who else is there who can compete with him, or more to the point is willing to compete with him, without spitting dummies and running off to shakespeare?


Sumo could enter and race the 2wd pro cars

As far as i can see all Andy wants to do is go there run on his own 

its a bit like look at the size of my DI-K everyone


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Grex said:


> Who else is there who can compete with him, or more to the point is willing to compete with him, without spitting dummies and running off to shakespeare?


The white 33 or the white 32.


Mick


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

My opinion is:

It doesn't matter what the rules are, as long as everyone clearly knows what they are everyone follows them, simple as that.

If you do something within the rules and beat someone else who hasn't taken full advantage of the rules thats their problem and doesn't make me a 'cheat' (Using NOS for example when its clearly legal to use it)

Another point is, if it clearly states in the rules that for safety or otherwise a car must have x and y and z and it is also clear that a car that turns up to race and it doesn't have x or y or maybe z also, he, without exception should be disqualified, as said above, if there aren't clear rules and if people aren't made to stick to the rules, there are no real winners.

PS, My 240z is the fastest in the world in Rotorua on a Tuesday with black seats, belts made in oct 2007, 8 psi in the rear tyres, 9 liters of trans fluid (when cold of course) and red and black stickers on the side, oh and a worn pair of wheelie bar bearings  

My 2c worth.

Rob


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

In terms of rules elsewhere (certainly Aus, NZ & US) they are virtually identical to the new UK rules introduced by the Pod.

If anything the other countries are slightly more stringent.
I have got a copy of the latest ANDRA rules as was trying to talk the Mrs into going on holiday in Aus (& trying to sneak the car over at the same time to run at an event  :chuckle: - didnt have the balls in the end - she would have murdered me!!):chuckle: 

The only difference basically to the Pod rules was having to fit a engine containment device (basically engine diaper to catch the crap/fluids should anything break to stop the risk of the car hitting the fluid/parts & also to stop the track being messed up & closed for a period of time). 

HTL's car would certainly be built to the latest set of Andra/NZ
rules - you can see that pretty much by the pics of the car with titanium flyshield etc etc

The pod had to do something guys, Jap cars are just getting quicker & quicker all the time & when you look at the rules for main stream drag racing ie/ pro et, comp elimanator in which a number of drag cars run very similar times to Pro Street they all have to conform so why should jap cars not?

The last thing we want is for the UK tracks to be closed down due to safety issues & whether it's popular or not sooner or later the rules will be adopted everywhere.


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

Munro said:


> Sumo could enter and race the 2wd pro cars


They could? but maybe they want to concentrate on the GTR  



Munro said:


> As far as i can see all Andy wants to do is go there run on his own


As i've already said, there aren't exactly people queueing up to race him, he hasn't much choice other than to run on his own, and why shouldn't he? he's breaking records with his car.



Munro said:


> its a bit like look at the size of my DI-K everyone


I'd disagree, Fuujin is probably one of the least talked about GTR drag cars on these forums, it turns up and runs the numbers in front of the crowds and noone can dispute it, its the quickest 4WD drag GTR there is in the UK.




m6beg said:


> The white 33 or the white 32.
> 
> Mick


No offence Mick, but you've not even run the "White" yet, I doubt you'll turn up and just run straight 8s from the word go, as cool as it would be I can't see it tbh.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Grex said:


> No offence Mick, but you've not even run the "White" yet, I doubt you'll turn up and just run straight 8s from the word go, as cool as it would be I can't see it tbh.



Totally agree Grex mate.

But it wont take me long. I believe with the new set up on the car she will do a 7 no problem at all.

Mick


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## munro (Oct 3, 2006)

Grex

You will have to make your way over to Stratford and take photos of Mick and Keith running side by side.

the pod it not the be all and end all


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

Mick you could do loads of testing in private before you run in public

only fair as that is what andy did


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

m6beg said:


> it wont take me long. I believe with the new set up on the car she will do a 7 no problem at all.
> 
> Mick


I genuinly wish you the best of luck but running a best of 9.9 and then doing 7s even though its a different car is a totally different kettle of fish.

I'm pretty sure you have no real idea of just how hard it will be, if it was easy or about money only there'd be plenty of people doing it.

Bets of luck though,

Rob


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

m6beg said:


> Totally agree Grex mate.
> 
> But it wont take me long. I believe with the new set up on the car she will do a 7 no problem at all.
> 
> Mick


Best of luck, would make my day to see a 7 come up on the board, My money is on Sumo being the first into the 7s, but your welcome to suprise us all 



Munro said:


> Grex
> 
> You will have to make your way over to Stratford and take photos of Mick and Keith running side by side.
> 
> the pod it not the be all and end all


Already planning to, I go whereever the racing is


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Great Idea Munro.

Grex your pics are second to none mate. They are the daddy.

And i want to thank you for letting me use them on my new web site.


Thank you very much.

Mick


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Grex said:


> Best of luck, would make my day to see a 7 come up on the board, My money is on Sumo being the first into the 7s, but your welcome to suprise us all
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## bobstuart (Sep 30, 2006)

Hi Grex

I would not be to sure on that

Keith run the first 9sec pass then Tim run the first 8sec pass

All andy has do has played catch up.

He goes a little bit faster sets a new time and gets nailed again.

Cant wait to see who gets a 7sec pass first.


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## Tommy F (Oct 31, 2005)

[quote name='Team Cowie' date='Feb 3 2008, 11:50 AM' post='211437']
Hi Duncan

There is loads getting done to the car for this season

The car is about 100kg lighter than last year and 50kg of that is a saving from wheels tyres and brakes
that will help the bugger rev.lol
the OS Giken gearbox now has a airshifter fitted to it that will help drop the times.
the engine will have a dry sump fitted this will let us run a bit more revs.
turbo is getting some work to make it a bit bigger lol
new Veilside aero front bumper.
loads of aero work with a full carbon flat floor with a rear diffuser.
fitting full slicks that will help the 60ft times.
New special front damper setup.
removing the factory glass and fitting plastic windows.

Keith
[/quote]

I have robbed this from Jap North East forum hope its ok

I think Team Cowie will be flying this year.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I genuinly wish you the best of luck but running a best of 9.9 and then doing 7s even though its a different car is a totally different kettle of fish.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you have no real idea of just how hard it will be, if it was easy or about money only there'd be plenty of people doing it.
> 
> ...



Totally agree with you Rob (Jesus i have to stop agreeing with you all the time):chuckle: 

But got to be honest with you we have found out we had big issues with the Lemons set up. And it is all sorted now. So lemon will be in the low 9's very soon mate. Which for a heavy car got to say it myself is very good.

I have a place booked in two weeks for testing the White. Duke said engine will be good for 50 runs. It has done 26 at the min but all on low power 1.8 bar 850/900 horse. It maxed the small turbos out or they would of put more boost up it. The car has already done a 7 in malaysia with 35/40 turbos. We have put bigger on it now thanks to Turbo Dynamics.

The car will have at least another 250 horse. So i need to get used to the car which i will at every given opportunity over the next month. Duke and Tweeneirob have new engine ready to drop in as it will need it.

Every little thing has been taken care of for us to do the 7 very soon.


Mick


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## Grex (Jan 2, 2005)

bobstuart said:


> Hi Grex
> 
> I would not be to sure on that


Not so sure on what? Sumo getting into the 7s, if you went to Japshow Finale and saw it run low 8s, one after another i'd say its a fair bet.



bobstuart said:


> Keith run the first 9sec pass then Tim run the first 8sec pass
> 
> All andy has do has played catch up.
> 
> He goes a little bit faster sets a new time and gets nailed again.


Who cares if Keith ran a 9 at TOTB in 2005? that was then and this is now, its taken him this long to barely get into the 8s, and now people are brandishing the number 7 around like it'll just happen overnight, 

I'd love Andy Barnes to be "nailed again" because that would mean we're well into the 7s, which is brilliant for me as a spectator and photographer, the gift of foresight tells me this is highly unlikley, go and watch the youtube videos of the Fuujin car, it launches better than any of the other drag GTRs around.


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## Andy W (Dec 31, 2005)

if i was a gambling man i'd bet on this one 

YouTube - Project GTST Santa Pod 07/10/2007


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

These are the boys who rightly can do all shouting in the world:smokin: 
Funny thing is they don't, absolute gentlemen to the last :smokin: 
HTL Racing - Race Diary


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Glad everyone is having the crack.

Its nice to see all the players getting on.

The Duke car came from Japan. Tim did his stuff.

Now i have the car. Tweenierob will do his magic. And Rob @ Rips NZ has been doing his stuff as well.

Got to say what ever anyone lays down time wise maybe a 8 or a 7 we will beat it. So get your money out boys bet on.

Mick


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

I don't know what you are all arguing about, 12's are where it's at 

Simon


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

pah, even my Metro run's 6's

mook


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## magoo (Nov 7, 2005)

m6beg said:


> Glad everyone is having the crack.
> 
> Its nice to see all the players getting on.
> 
> ...


spot on


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## Ludders (Feb 6, 2004)

m6beg said:


> And Rob @ Rips NZ has been doing his stuff as well.
> 
> 
> Mick


Congratulations Mick on deciding to get some high quality parts from the best fabricators in the world. Not only will your car go good but will look real good too. Well done! :smokin: 

Jeff


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## munro (Oct 3, 2006)

Andy b

You keep going on about rules and records.

Your cage in your car is built to a 8.5 MSA spec.

So if you want to stick by the rules, your low 8 sec run does not count because your car was running with a light cage, to run faster than a 8.5 you need a load of extra bars fitted to make your cage legal.

The Pod should stop you running again till your cage is built to a spec that is safe for the times and speed that you are running.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

So the run did not count according to the rules???

Is this true?

Just need to know before i do anything.

Mick


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## Lag Monster (Aug 16, 2007)

So keith Cowie still holds the record then?? Or is it Tim when he had the Duke car.

I dont now what time Tim ran proper. So may times all over the place.

If not well done to Keith.


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

No i am sure Tim ran an 8.3 something. So it must be still Tims record then.

I am sure Keith done a 8.8 but not 100% sure

But i can't comment in what roll cages they had in at the time.

They may have had all the same i dunno.

Just need Andy to reply to this one to get the facts.

Mick


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

guys don't say you are serious for christ sake :chuckle: 
I am in hysterics laughing at the irony of major double standards :chuckle:


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

trackday addict said:


> guys don't say you are serious for christ sake :chuckle:
> I am in hysterics laughing at the irony of major double standards :chuckle:


LOL John hahahahahahahahahahah :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: 


Mick


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

If you run with a cage that is not up to standard then your times are not counted .

The new rules state you need to back your time up 50 times in 1 hr hahahahaha with a dodgy cage.

John will Tweeneirob mapp your car now Dano has gone ???.:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: 


Good god this year will be some crack.

Mick


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

I've got an atlas map in the boot that should do it 
Mick - do you want some help with the rules - I'll get andy robinson to send you some details on cages & bellhousings if you want ?



m6beg said:


> If you run with a cage that is not up to standard then your times are not counted .
> 
> The new rules state you need to back your time up 50 times in 1 hr hahahahaha with a dodgy cage.
> 
> ...


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## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

trackday addict said:


> I've got an atlas map in the boot that should do it


lol hehehehe good man John. I hope you haven't got a plastic cage????

My new one is made from Stella cans.


Mick


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