# are they actually selling?



## souroull (Jul 21, 2008)

r34 gtrs that is... prices are flat out stupid... they were rather sensible up until the point that jm imports posted a bunch of cars for over 30k due to the exchange rate, and then it suddenly became the norm.

since then, cars with :chairshot prices have been posted for months on end on pistonheads and autotrader.. and are still for sale or the adds just expired.

In the meantime there was a few new members that bought cars of similar spec for a LOT less.. which means either that:

1) sellers eventually knock off over 10k from the price, without that being reflected on the advertisement

2) theres cars that sell locally for reasonable prices that nobody knows about.

i know of only 1 car that was sold at a hefty premium, and everyone jumped on the seller to ask how what where when

conclusions? 

thoughts?

what gives? what am i missing?


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Yes there selling mate. Well the good ones anyway. I know of 3 in the last 1-2 months that have sold for £30k +. 


And to be honest, good spec R34's have always sold for £30K +.


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## dan-hipgrave (Nov 22, 2008)

A couple of years back there were R34's going for £17-£20k. Those days are gone now though - the R34 seems to be raising in value where the R32/R33 variants aren't.


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

I have had a few phone calls,and also 2 viewing's and an offer for my car (below what I would like to sell it for) so far within 11 day's of it being for sale,R34 GTR's are selling to an extent,for reasonable priced car's where the seller isn't expecting a mental amount of money..
I mean,I've brought one recently,so yes they're selling,at the right price


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## GTR33-MP (Dec 29, 2004)

Yep most people who want good spec'd R34s are happy to pay the premium... i know as i did !

If you look at the nos of R34s for sale compared to 33s for example you can see why the prices are where they are. They have to be the rarest model in the UK, I see more R35s than 34s


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

GTR33-MP said:


> Yep most people who want good spec'd R34s are happy to pay the premium... i know as i did !
> 
> If you look at the nos of R34s for sale compared to 33s for example you can see why the prices are where they are. They have to be the rarest model in the UK, I see more R35s than 34s


I would say,about 180 R34 GTR's in the UK,with about 15 of them within a 8mile radius of Birmingham :thumbsup:


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## MIKEGTR (Jul 8, 2005)

Prices on all variants have gone up, a couple of years ago some 32's were down at £4/5k


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## Kadir (Mar 23, 2008)

JapFreak786 said:


> I would say,about _180_ R34 GTR's in the UK,with about 15 of them within a 8mile radius of Birmingham :thumbsup:


180!? I didn't realise there were that many in the UK.


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

yep,though you suprised at how high,or how low the number is? They are going abroad quite alot now,no doubt the yellow one would have also gone abroad if i hadn't brought it


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Kadir said:


> 180!? I didn't realise there were that many in the UK.




I would of said less also.


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## Steveline (Oct 6, 2010)

mattysupra said:


> Yes there selling mate. Well the good ones anyway. I know of 3 in the last 1-2 months that have sold for £30k +.
> 
> 
> And to be honest, good spec R34's have always sold for £30K +.


+1 

A properly sorted car will fetch the right price, a poor one will cost a fortune to put right!! so better off spending a bit more in the first place, a lesson im finding out first hand!! 

These are future classics and i can only see the price of really good examples going up and up, which is only a good thing, because if you cant afford to run it, and look after such an exclusive car, then you shouldn't be able afford to buy it in the first place!

i've seen so many posts lately from guys thinking they can stretch to a 34 with a budget of around 20K, and nothing left in the pot for the what if's!! trust me you cant!! If you don't believe me check out my restoration thread!! properly sorted 33's are around the 20k mark now!


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## Kadir (Mar 23, 2008)

mattysupra said:


> I would of said less also.


Have to agree with Matty.


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## Clive S-P (Aug 8, 2008)

Only 180! Must admit that suprises me, there are 35 for sale on Pistonheads at the moment and there seems to have been a steady stream of imports for years. At least until the recession started.

There were only 80 UK cars, of which some have been crashed and others have gone abroad, so maybe 50 left, but I would have thought there was more than 180.

Not that I'm complaining, I like the exclusivity.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Despite the R34 being my favourite Skyline/GTR, I really can't see why the vast excess premium price over a R32 or R33 - yes they are newer but with that brings less of a "classic" car and more of a potential "future classic", it won't be long before the R35 is cheaper to buy second hand!


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Since April 2004 imports of R34 GT-R's have been very few because the personal import rules changed then, making it necessary for GT-R's to be SVA tested. There was never a model report produced by any company for this model and it was very expensive to do a one-off noise & emissions test (3.5K)...which didn't guarantee success. So no, there haven't been many BNR34 imports since 2004. 

Then in mid 2008 the value of UK Sterling plumetted about 40% and has remained low ever since, which meant even though BNR34's would soon be 10 years old and no longer need to have an SVA test to import - they'd be too expensive for most due to exchange rates. This has remainded the case and now BNR34's of good quality are going up in price in Japan.

Currently it still costs over 30,000 GBP to import & complete a very good BNR34 from Japan. Poor quality isn't really worth investing in as it'll cost more to put right in the end. 

All quality GT-R RB26's have gone up in price in Japan this last year, especially 32's, then 34's and 33's (Of which there are the most of still). 

Well looked after examples of all variants are expected to go up in price. Of course this doesn't include bad examples. Eventually those will be so low value they'll be worth more in parts than as a whole, much the same as all other cars of desirability. As the good ones become rarer & rarer and demand amongst enthusiasts with realistic budgets exceeds supply they'll go up in value. 

R35 GT-R's are a completely different car, which is also considerably less DIY maintenance friendly, nor does it have the same motorsports pedigree of earlier RB26 models and as there's many official imports, they're not likely to be as desirable in future, despite being very good cars in their own right.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to find good RB26 GT-R's. If you've got a good one, keep it well. Just look at what Hakosuka GT-R price history has done, as a model of what's yet to come.


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## Clive S-P (Aug 8, 2008)

Miguel, I stand corrected! :bowdown1::bowdown1:

At the risk of being flamed, are there any specifics for you, that separate a good R34 from a bad one? What makes you walk away?

Thanks. :thumbsup:


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Clive S-P said:


> Miguel, I stand corrected! :bowdown1::bowdown1:
> 
> At the risk of being flamed, are there any specifics for you, that separate a good R34 from a bad one? What makes you walk away?
> 
> Thanks. :thumbsup:


Clive, no worries 

If I open a BNR34's bonnet and see rust developing on the seams of suspension turrets or elsewhere in the engine bay, even small - I know underneath it's likely to be a lot worse (Bearing in mind front suspension turrets are double skinned and thick). Underside of boot floors are then also prone to corrosion as are suspension components, rear arches, etc. This is common for all RB26 GT-R's... But this is basic knowledge only. There's a lot more to look at when selecting an RB26 GT-R than just rust in these locations. Signs of abuse, incorrect mileage for wear, signs of accident history (if severe), paintwork quality, interior damage, neglect, etc. are harder to read.

Every car tells quite a lot of history by looking closely with an experienced eye. After checking thousands with an enthusiast sense, experienced mechanical knowledge & a memory for performance parts & when they became available, it's possible to develop an accumulative education that reveals a lot about each car's history. 

I know of possibly only 3 people in Japan who have a true eye for GT-R's and it's taken each years to develop. All have been doing this for a very long time (It has to be people who are really interested in these cars and have practical mechanical & motorsports knowledge - not just buyers who attend auctions and look at cars regularly since they won't memorise important factors otherwise) One is the buyer for Global Auto (& used to buy for Zele), one nowadays an enthusiast who occasionally appears at auctions & dabbles in GT-R's & perhaps myself.

Sadly all good things come to an end though and good RB26 GT-R's are becoming increasingly rare.

People should waxoyl their 34's (& any other car they want to preserve as long as possible) every autumn till it literally drips off & spray all cavities too. But this protection needs to be done when first imported, ideally - not after corrosion's already set in, since rust never goes away unless cut out & replaced with fresh metal. 

There's a lot of crud & mud on British roads which cakes the underside of cars & holds electrolytes and moisture to metal parts, plus the added attacks of grit & salt in colder months which mix with this mud layer. Just the air on roads in winter carries salty moisture, hence the corrosion that tends to occur on bolts and attachments + front panels of Japanese cars (Since these panels are barely painted at Japanese factories). 

England's a very damp place for a lot of the time which doesn't bode well for unprotected cars IMHO.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

25K would buy me a nice 34 a couple of years ago, though with not many mods, fairly standardish or stage1 type stuff. I was hunting for one mad once, but opt'd for a track prepared 33GTR for a similar value. Now to get a 34 of a similar kind you are talking about 50K+ so not really affordable for many. But the prices have gone up and I think they are worth it. 34s are truly the best looking and the all round sorted GTRs of all. Still want one so bad as ever.


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## Clive S-P (Aug 8, 2008)

My understanding was that it is the double skin of the turrets that causes the problem. 
Because the seam between the two layers isn't sealed on the outside, the crud and wet get into the seam, sit there and then cause rust to come through into the engine bay from underneath. 
Basically a design fault, that when combined with the wonderful British climate, leads to inevitable consequences.

I think for many owners it's a guilty secret that has to be sorted properly, but shouldn't necessarily doom the rest of the car to being an unloved rust bucket.

And yes, I do need mine doing! :nervous:


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## .::TopSky::. (Nov 4, 2010)

They`re expensive beacuse of the extreme specs, I dont think the prices on R34s will be dropping soon, I think they will start dropp in price within 3-5 years. Btw i saw a M-Spec II Nur on USS Auctions for 10 000 000 JPY (Starting Price)


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Other than looks imho there over rated for the money compared to the 33.
I have watched 100's of track videos where the 33 and 34 are side by side over the finish line.
Dont get me wrong I like them but dont think there worth the extra price tag.


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Clive S-P said:


> My understanding was that it is the double skin of the turrets that causes the problem.
> Because the seam between the two layers isn't sealed on the outside, the crud and wet get into the seam, sit there and then cause rust to come through into the engine bay from underneath.
> Basically a design fault, that when combined with the wonderful British climate, leads to inevitable consequences.
> 
> ...


Dirt, grit, salt & crud build as layers where this stuff can accumulate - then when this gets wet, it holds moisture & electrolytes against not very well protected steel. 

Examples in Japan don't always suffer the same corrosion difficulties (If they're from warmer areas. Hokkaido's cars can get rusty because they do use salt on roads!). 

The difference with the majority of Japan is no salt or grit on roads in winter and roads with concrete ditches that are properly drained. This keeps roads much cleaner of course. 
If you put your hand inside the arch of say an average 10 year old car in UK and rub, a lot of crud usually comes off. Look beneath & you'll often find a sort of corrugated dirt all over the underside including mechanical components, exhaust, etc. This is the major cause of chassis rust problems. 

In Japan's warmer climates this doesn't happen & so it's not uncommon to see cars of say 20 years old that still have a rust free original exhaust. Much the same as other climates known for being a source of rust free cars, such as say California.

I dislike rust and the problems it can cause (Including added mechanical maintenance difficulties), mostly because my dad's business around which I grew up was in car restorations. It was horrible to see what rust could do to classic cars & the sheer work & skill required to repair it properly so there's a good chance I'm heavily biassed against rusty cars. :shy:

I'm not saying a GT-R with rust on suspension turrets is doomed, though - that doesn't mean it's a rotten car. Stuff like this can be repaired, but it's costly to do properly as it needs to be taken away from beneath. It's difficult to get at all the rust without cutting out the under layer, etc. Because of my dislike for rust we always avoid cars like that, as it can get very costly to repair properly. Better to do the repair sooner than later and waxoyl heavily every autumn. At the very least just do the waxoyling as it'll slow the process of corrosion considerably, but it really needs to be heavily applied to work well. :thumbsup:


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

TREG said:


> Other than looks imho there over rated for the money compared to the 33.
> I have watched 100's of track videos where the 33 and 34 are side by side over the finish line.
> Dont get me wrong I like them but dont think there worth the extra price tag.


A good R34 GT-R holds it's price better than a 33 because of it's rarily & greater desirability to some. So it's not dead money - just tied up in a more valuable car.


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## .::TopSky::. (Nov 4, 2010)

Miguel - Newera said:


> A good R34 GT-R holds it's price better than a 33 because of it's rarily & greater desirability to some. So it's not dead money - *just tied up in a more valuable car*.


+1 :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

There is the world of difference between what a GTR may be advertised for and what a GTR sells for. 

And that works both ways - There are as many dogs being advertised for high prices as there are buyers expecting a mint one for 20K

Supply and demand is king ..........end of

If you want a decent cherished 34 they are not common and anyone who has one WILL have spent £££££££s keeping it that way ( or even more making it so). 
Consequently they dont give them away

Plus the cost of parts keeps the cars selling price "honest"

As has been said by many rarity is also relevant ( though thats really supplly and demand again)

32s have gone up because people have now realised truly decent ones are rare .
As the 32 joins the classic car market a new type of buyer will appear .
Eventually 32s will go the way of earlier models with standard original cars getting premiums (hopefully) but only if rust free and fully sorted.
This will of course pull up the prices of modded ones which at the moment stay high mainly due the cost of parts

But the criteria will always be........Is it really clean or just nice.


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

So a R34 is the same price as a R35 almost?

R35 are only 35K now(07-08 models).


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

enshiu said:


> So a R34 is the same price as a R35 almost?
> 
> R35 are only 35K now(07-08 models).



A good R34 yes. 

A rare model R34 like a 'NUR' for instance or a very good speced R34 are worth alot more than 35k! I think standard Nur's go for £45k + and if you was to really push the boat out and stretch to buying a R34 GTR Z-Tune then you will need well over £100k to buy one!


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## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

mattysupra said:


> A good R34 yes.
> 
> A rare model R34 like a 'NUR' for instance or a very good speced R34 are worth alot more than 35k! I think standard Nur's go for £45k + and if you was to really push the boat out and stretch to buying a R34 GTR Z-Tune then you will need well over £100k to buy one!


Sounds like a ornament 100K+!


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

enshiu said:


> Sounds like a ornament 100K+!


Have a look at this video. Some info on the R34 GTR Z-tune

YouTube - Z-Tune


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Miguel - Newera said:


> Dirt, grit, salt & crud build as layers where this stuff can accumulate - then when this gets wet, it holds moisture & electrolytes against not very well protected steel.
> 
> Examples in Japan don't always suffer the same corrosion difficulties (If they're from warmer areas. Hokkaido's cars can get rusty because they do use salt on roads!).
> 
> ...



My R33 is 16+ years old and has been in the UK for about nearly 4 years now, when it first arrived it was virtually corrosion free ( suspension arms, brackets and bolts were their natural colour even) - I never had it undersealed as I cant stand the tar like black appearance, but used a jetwash to flush out crap under the arches and the underside of the car once a month. Looking at it now, after suffering snow and many wet days in London traffic over the past 4 years it's still much better than 5-6 year old UK cars - you would need to look closely to find surface rust on some parts of the underside of the car, but you can clearly see rust on components, suspension subframes and fittings in the underside of a say a 6 year old TVR Tuscan, BMW M3, or Honda S2000 as examples...

Last summer I did stick my hand under all 4 arches and found lots of dried mud and dust - I must have cleared out a good 2 handfulls worth and some faint signs of surface rust found on 2 of the rear arch lip - so even jet washing frequently does not assure it can stop the build up of crud. This is the reality of driving daily in a place like London for a few years - nothing to do with the lack of maintenence or thrashing it as some here have implied. Some people need or want to use their cars as often as possible, no excuses for weather accepted ... it is not some over polished locked up in some garage and only taken out for photos or a dry evening local car meet. 

It's not just with GTR's, you'd find 20-25 year old cars in mint condition fetching nearly new price tags, but you can tell they have never really been driven, as a performance car that is a bit criminal to leave it locked up so often - so you make your choice, do you buy a car to drive it and get the most out of it?? Or do you just polish it and pose around with it hoping one day it sells on for as much as possible?


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## IMS (Sep 18, 2002)

While I agree with most commentrs (to a degree!), I think this is all subjective...

A "good" car depends on personal needs and standards...do you want:


a totally standard perfect bodywork 
a highly tuned "reasonable bodywork"
a show car - bodykits, faultless paintwork & lots of goodies
a track car - reliable, powerful, well set up, but not necessarily perfect body work
good average mix - reliable, stage 1, track'able with minor body marks
etc etc

I believe, based on your criteria you will find R34 GTR's can be found sub £25k and they're not rubbish or rot boxes, but they may not be show car perfect bodywork or 700bhp.

They have gone up slightly, but if you're comparing a well sorted 550-700 bhp R34 to a "standard" r35, then yes, the R34 is same/slightly higher, but then the spec is same/slightly higher and a much more rare shape. 
Then it becomes desire for rarity, posing power etc - generally speaking, the R35 is more practical, easier to drive and better on (a big) track than a standard R34, so why do people pay for a good R34...image, manual box, rarity factor??? See what I mean:blahblah:

As a few have mentioned, if their personal standards and attention to detail are higher, then they reject cars you and I might accept:nervous:

People often say - your car is perfect/lovely/fast/rare/awesome (take your pick), but we all (me in particular) think...yeah, but I know where there's a scratch/dent/mismatched panel alignment/rusty mount/kerbing on wheels/faster car etc etc.

I've met several owners who think my car is perfect and I know it isn't. I've met several owners who think their cars are "the muts" - they're not, sorry:chairshot...it's all about how much attention you pay and how good you want every aspect of the car!

Those who know their car is really perfect, can and do ask a big price, but the people who want that perfection know what they're looking for and are prepareed to pay for it!


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## Clive S-P (Aug 8, 2008)

I think IMS has nailed it for me.
Ultimately it is personal preference. Do you want a show car, or one you will use as intended by the designers?
When buying a car, you want one that has been looked after, not abused or neglected, but during the time of your ownership it will deteriorate to some degree... it's geting older.

My car is used everyday, it's loved and cared for to the best of my ability... but at the end of the day it's a car. I didn't buy it hoping it would go up in value. To be honest if you buy a car and don't lose your shirt, you're doing well.


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