# Rather Disappointed in Someone.



## MichaelG (Feb 21, 2002)

Well my Skyline ownership came to an end today when i sold my R33 GTR. Very sad to see her go, and when the new owner ripped past me in my Van on the motorway i wondered why i let her go   

It took me about 4 weeks to sell and a LOT of timewasters either wasted my time or didnt get back to me when they said they would. Typical....

One thing that i have to point out though, is that i had an interested party from the Leeds area about 3 weeks ago.....and he asked about the History of the car. He was informed that the car had previously belonged to a very well known Forum Member on here, had been serviced and looked after by a "well known tuner" on here  a few years back, and that the GTR Master himself Rod Bell could vouch for the cars quality, as he had also played with it on a few ocassions in the latter part of its life in Scotland,with mapping etc.

The interested party decided to phone around to get an insight into the cars history, and all was fine until.......(now i am not going to mention names YET........as this tuner knows EXACTLY who they are) until........he was told by this tuner who had previously worked on the car that the car was basically shi*e and had been given a "hard life"

Now anyone who knows my car will know that it is 100% straight, IMMACULATE to the core, and apart from a 4th gear synchro prob which saw me fit a new gearbox last week the car had no problems at all. 

When this car was taken to Scotland by its last owner, this tuner who decided to "badmouth" my car to try and put the buyer off for some unknown reason had told the previous owner that the car was One Of The Best and that it was a good buy!!?!?!

So what changed !!!?!?!?

The car has not been thrashed / bashed / abused, was meticulously maintained, before AND AFTER my purchasing of it. The tuner who badmouthed it KNEW this but decided to make a rather 5hitty comment which basically put the prospective buyer more or less off of the car almost immediately.

The car had never even seen more than standard boost before the previous owner to me purchased it, and i myself, do not buy [email protected] and neither does the guy i bought the car from. The car had also been collected down south by a VERY well known member on here who checked it out A1 and took it back up the road. 

I am VERY disappointed that someone who should be acting in a professional manner has decided to make a very unjustified and pointless comment regarding my Skyline to someone who had phoned with a view to buying the car. Incidentally this tuner who made the comment also came out in his email with the old "BUT.....i have one here that i can sell you blah blah!" what a coincidence eh !! 

So to me it looks like a typical case of trying to put someone off of a car in order to sell one of your own which in my opinion is pretty damn pathetic. Telling a blatant lie about a car which is totally genuine, like mine, in order to try and sell one of your own is something that you do out of desperation. Its not what i call "fair play" and its certainly not very sporting or professional. Fair enough its a dog-eat-dog world in todays car selling, but you dont spout lies about someones car just for your own personal gain.  

To the Tuner - Now if my car had such a "hard life" in past years, then why did you highly recommend the previous owner buy the car and talk it up so much previous to his purchase ?

Considering that there were approx £4500 worth of servicing and mods receipts from your garage, over a very short period of time, i would love to know if this is your idea of someone not looking after a car or giving it a hard life ?

The car has never been driven hard to my knowledge, and basically you tried to make a comment that you hoped would result in the guy buying one of your cars instead.....well it didnt work.....all you have done is show yourself to be rather pathetic when i had previously thought your company to be reputable and honest. It just shows what the prospect of some money does to some people. Rather sad. 

You know exactly who you are, and i still have the email that you sent the buyer here saved on my computer. 
Very tempted to paste it up here actually.....

I just wanted to say that i am VERY disappointed that you actually thought it appropriate to do this. Plenty of people have been made aware of your actions and i am trying very hard not to go over the top here. Very angry is a huge understatement. If this was anyone close to me then i wouldnt be talking about it, i would be breaking his nose !

Nonetheless, the car was sold today to ANOTHER buyer who was delighted with the car and its condition, in every way.

Not too bad for a car which had a supposed "hard life"

It really saddens me that someone stoops as low as this to try and make a few quid.

Sorry if this seems like a rant, but i just wanted to highlight to some of you that someone on here is rather two faced, and i think you would be very surprised to find out who it is.  

Skyline ownership was fun while it lasted though and a great bunch of guys on here !  
Cheers for all the laughs and help

Michael


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## moses (Mar 1, 2003)

so sorry to hear that michael mate, we all know u are a genuine fecking guy 

let the pr1cks rot


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## deano (Jan 26, 2003)

Name the tuner mate  

Bang out of order , but glad you got it sold and everythings worked out for you


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## MichaelG (Feb 21, 2002)

Cheers guys much appreciated....

Deano - Am sure they know exactly who they are......be interesting to see if they respond though.


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## Skunk141 (Nov 24, 2003)

Name and shame mate the best way


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## ZXSpectrum (Feb 27, 2002)

Name and shame... 

Putting down someone elses car to sell one of your own is a really $hitty thing to do...!

I would also be inclined to drive to the tuner and break his nose...


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

Name 'em I say. They should have the guts to defend their comments if they can make them in the first place.


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## Josewick (May 16, 2002)

Micheal 

Yeh name and shame and i don't think the tuner himself will reply in any aspect.

Regards


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## PMJ (Sep 11, 2001)

*Dissin*

Michael, I know exactly how you feel.. I have had the same happen to mine... I had a buyer for it and they were told that the car was a badun, this was not the case, all this was after the "buyer" had agreed to purchase it, and after the conversation he had with a tuner he backed out... still very ****ed off about that but thats life as far as I am concerned.. nothing I can do or prove outright.. but I know....


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## turbob12 (Nov 3, 2002)

Micheal, if I'm right about your car it was Charlie's car, if so I first saw it in the flesh at Knockhill in Nov 02, even parked next to Keiths blue R33 it looked stunning, literally the cleanest R33 I've ever seen, certainly a car to be proud of.

Name and shame him dude, we want to know.


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## deano (Jan 26, 2003)

turbob12 said:


> *
> 
> Name and shame him dude, we want to know. *


Too bloody right we want to know especially if that person/s uses this board !
Were supposed to be a comunity , you know one for all and all that caper  
Whats happened to Michael just isnt in the spirit of the club if you ask me


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## soggy (Apr 28, 2003)

Name & shame mate......so i & my mates will never go to there.


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

Name & shame mate......so i & my mates will never go to there either.

we do need to stick together, If the garage acts like this then is it gonna do a good job on a car. can we trust it, better not to risk it ehh?

we need to avoid this place,


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## Caoboth (Jul 25, 2003)

SOrry to hear that mate.

But i agree with everyone else here, name the B*D, so the rest of us dont deal with this so called tuner.


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## jameswrx (Jul 27, 2003)

Sounds very out of order mate, and to be honest you were never going to get away without naming and I'm sure you knew it, so go on

One thing though, this sort of thing is going to drive up a bit of a feeding frenzy of people (as it proves to be) towards putting down the 'tuner'. 

What I'm getting at is, did you directly hear these comments?, you have used your statement "the cars was basically sh*t" and it sort of implies this is what he said about your car. Chinese whispers can quickly expand the truth, ie tuner speaks to buyer and buyer mentions new gearbox, tuner says that usually happens if they've been given a bit of a hard life, buyer then relates to you saying tuner said it'd had a hard life, then you tell us he made out "the car was basically sh*t", then people on here tell their friends tuner 'X' steals peoples sales, reffers to their cars as sh*t when they're not, etc, and therefore the feeding frenzy for the tuners blood starts LOL

I'm in no way dumbing down your own situation with the tuner, but hope you see what I'm getting at. I agree an apology from the tuner would be nice, and maybe they can explain. 

At the end of the day you sold your car to the buyer over the tuners one, so the condition of the car speaks volumes there.


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## somberg (Jun 27, 2001)

Michael,

I agree with jameswrx.

Go to the "tuner" whom you believe to be the root of all evil, confront him with it and let them tell their side of the story. Name and shame = no use, that's middle ages revisited. I'd like to believe that we're more civilized than that. Good luck !:smokin:


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

GEORGE GTS said:


> *Name & shame mate......so i & my mates will never go to there either.
> we need to avoid this place, *


I have got no idea who the tuner is but I will be interested to see the reaction from the people above if it turns out to be their tuner 
As James has said, I would make sure that your statements are 100% true before you do as they ARE going to reply and it will probably get nasty.
If this is all true (and chinese whispers have not been involved) this is not nice and I agree, this is supposed to be a community.

I have done this once. Someone on here was buying a car and someone else tipped me off that it was an ex track car (as they had seen it) and well thrashed. I warned them about this (by p.m.) and they said that they knew and were still buying it. I would not have passed on the information if I was not sure that it was true.

I am happy that the tuner involved is not mine as he does not come on here


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

Might get flamed for saying this, but if what has been said is true then the only thing I would add is that I would personally be pretty apprehensive about a car that I had suspicions was ragged up at Santa Pod on a regular basis.

Not saying this car was obviously - but isn't the Pod pretty popular with Keith, Charlie and co?

Not sure if thats what the tuner was alluding to or not.....


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

*I agree with JAMESWRX and DAVE*

you are right it is no good bad mouthing a man at risk of causing him to lose work or to have a effect on it, if you havent got substanshall eveidence.

But Michael did say he had an email from the tuner, so i was led to believe the evidence was there.


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

...and if it is a tuner that comes on here, they will have lots of supporters on here. All tuners have.


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## moses (Mar 1, 2003)

daves post
--------------

I have got no idea who the tuner is but I will be interested to see the reaction from the people above if it turns out to be their tuner
--------------



  very clever indeed matey  i would luv to see the faces and i hope it aint any of my mates


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

I agree with James and Andre,

In that before naming anyone evidence needs proper corroboration, rather than the chinese whispers route.

J.

Dont worry Moses you are safe


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## moses (Mar 1, 2003)

lol cheers i know i am mate  

just being carcastic


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

I meant that you dont have any mates      

Maybe thats why you replied    

Just joshin !!

Be well.

J.


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## GTR-NUTTER (Jul 9, 2002)

Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame Name and Shame


















only joking Mate i go with all the above

K


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## moses (Mar 1, 2003)

lol i have loads james


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## emicen (Sep 4, 2003)

moses said:


> *lol i have loads james   *


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## moses (Mar 1, 2003)

yeah of course i have loads but not many proddies   **** the gers


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## skyline501 (Jun 29, 2001)

It's amazes me how many Skylines regularly rag up and down drag strips, totb, do multiple track days and generally tear up the place and yet all those that come up for sale have never been 'abused' and have tlc showered upon them.

If any Skyline owner hasn't given their car a 'hard life' just what are they doing owning one in the first place?  

Vincenzo


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## KrazY_IvaN (Dec 30, 2002)

Naming and Shaming is not all the best way, I am in the "go and see/speak to the tuner", the e-mail you have may have been editied to make it easier for the buyer to pull out of the deal with out loosing face. Just a though and glad you got your car sold any way


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## MichaelG (Feb 21, 2002)

Hi Guys

A lot of very good comments there, and i know exactly what all of you are saying.

Those of you who said that its better to have proof/evidence first, i totally agree.....thats why i didnt name and shame in my first post. Totally right. So i have since found out, that not only do i have the forwarded email to back up my claim, but as seconds i also have the word of a third party now again, who had phoned this place and ALSO got told the same......so thats now two people who have been told the same thing......one in email, one in conversation on phone....

Not a happy chappy........

Michael


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Michael,

Obviously, really bad form for them to have acted in the way that they have. We've never gone in for naming and shaming on here, too many pitfalls although people can read into this and some of other threads and presume or interpret identities. Got to say that nothing much surprises me any more, sad or what....


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

Michael stop fannying about and dish the dirt  The Skyline community will be better served by knowing who out there hasn't got any qualms about rubbishing other owners cars.


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

Peter said:


> *Michael,
> 
> Obviously, really bad form for them to have acted in the way that they have. We've never gone in for naming and shaming on here, too many pitfalls although people can read into this and some of other threads and presume or interpret identities. Got to say that nothing much surprises me any more, sad or what.... *


Bah.

I need some excitement on a Friday...

I must admit I disagree with your viewpoint Peter. I totally understand the desire to remain legally impartial - but there have been countless cases in the past where something bad has happened to a Skyline owner relating to a tuner and that info has remained stymied - the net result being that other owners end up using said tuner completely unaware of what f**k ups they'd been responsible for... speaking from personal experience here as well.

Word of mouth isn't enough to protect the Skyline community in my opinion. I hate to think that there are people on here who are potentially going to end up in similar situations to what I ended up in simply because they won't have heard of my (and others) experiences.


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## sammy (Jul 19, 2001)

*Naming*

I agree with Durzel.
I kind of understand Andre's concern about a lynch mob mentality but, if Michael has his facts straight (which it seems he has), he would do everyone on the Board a service by disclosing. People here spend thousands of pounds on tuning. I did so last year. Most of us do a fair bit of homework before doing so and rightly so, because we are putting a lot of trust in these guys. If that trust is abused, we should know about it. The tuner may still be a great tuner and a great engineer, but knowing that he had a history of not always being straight with the truth on matters regarding the cars of people on this Board would fundamentally affect my decision as to whether I wanted to use him.


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

I totally take the point Durzel and I know that you have personal and painful experience of this. I too would be totally pi55ed off if I were in Michael's shoes, rightly so. Would it disuade people from using this particular tuning company, I doubt it. Even friends of mine continue to use a tuner that I had a dispute with despite them knowing the full facts of my situation. At the end of the day, there are just so few experienced tuners over here, people have very little choice who to use. 

The final decision on matters like this has got to be Cem's, he's the one who would end up with the 5hit...


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## -[c0Ka|Ne]- (Jan 1, 2004)

*Make an exmaple of them*

Plenty of good responses here. Glad to hear the car was sold to some lucky mofo, very disheartening to hear that a tuner had "stabbed you in the back". One thing that really drew me to this forum was the community. I have seen countless posts indicating call this number, we can sort your engine for you, talk to shin about this, etc. 

For a community so small and unique, it is hard to imagine that someone involved would have the nerve to pull off something like that. 

So if everything previusly said stands to be correct, *name and shame* and see what the tuner will do about it. Fact is, just going to the tuner is not enough. What about everyone else? What's to stop the tuner doing the same again (or something equally f**ked up). If you don't, so you avoid some tension and get peace in the short term. But what about the long run? By naming, ou'll be doing everyone a favour - maybe even the tuner's, see how hard he tries to restore himself and make up for his mistake(s).

As for his side of the story? Please, don't even bother. No excuses.

Your being harsh, but don't think you're not being fair.

I'm going to go lie down now


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## Fred (Oct 11, 2001)

Durzel said:


> *Michael stop fannying about and dish the dirt  The Skyline community will be better served by knowing who out there hasn't got any qualms about rubbishing other owners cars. *


Totally agree with this comment.

I understand your comment Peter, but just because there are only a handful of Skyline tuners in the country doesn't mean they can scr*w us. One person telling me of their problems with a tuner is likely to raise my awareness levels but not necessarily change my ownsviews of that tuner. However, 2, 3, 4, 5 people warning me about the same tuner is going to make me think very hard about using that tuner. Who knows how many other times that particular tuner has shafted someone? Finally where there is demand, there will be supply. Lets not pretend skyline tuners are a rare commodity, they are only rare because we as a community keep using the same old tuners. If it is proved they are bad apples, people will find others to replace them. Let the cream rise.


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## Fred (Oct 11, 2001)

PS Michael do you know any Diamondbrite dealers in London?


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## St Andy (Apr 22, 2003)

I understand that you are upset Micheal, but to bring this up on here, and then not divulge the name of the tuner seems a little pointless. It feels like a story with no ending or point


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## -[c0Ka|Ne]- (Jan 1, 2004)

Offtopic, sorry just curious, how come you sold you skyline m8?


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## MichaelG (Feb 21, 2002)

Fred - Have a look on http://www.jewelultra.co.uk

Give them a phone and they will sort you with your nearest outlet 

 

St Andy - I wanted to see the views of the board before i got drawn into making any comments on names first. Thats all. Sorry if you think its pointless. But nobody asked you to read the thread or comment on it.

CokaIne - Sold it because it got to that time !


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## DevilJin (Jan 16, 2004)

Well, I'm the lucky mofo who bought the car. 

....and I'm also the stupid mofo who drove the car all the way from Aberdeen to London 

anyway, as the car's new owner, I think I'll add my bit. 

Michael and his Dad own a valeting company, so I was expecting the exterior and interior to be in very good condition. They weren't. They were in absolutely phenomenal condition. Everything was pristine, alloys, bodywork, interior, boot, engine bay, the works. 

Now, that's all very well, but what about the engine? Well until I take the car to a specialist, and have the engine stripped down and assessed, I have to go with my 8 hours of driving it as an initial indicator. The car seems faultless. Incredibly powerful, very stable, no nasty surprises whatsoever. Reasonable petrol consumption as well, which I wasn't expecting, especially at 1.1bar. 

The service history is really really extensive, the car has clearly been given loads of tlc, no expenses spared. Now of course it's been driven hard, like Skyline501 was saying, we buy Skylines for a reason. But as you all know, you can drive a car hard, without abusing it. Regular servicing, oil changes, proper warming up and warming down, sensible boost levels. Everything I've seen would indicate this car has had that care. 

I don't know a great deal about the badmouthing, but there's two sides to every coin. Maybe the tuner was offering his honest opinion, on how hard the previous owner would drive his car, and what sort of life expectancy it had as a result. Maybe he said something and it was taken the wrong way. Maybe the guy who was thinking about buying the car wanted out, and wanted a convenient excuse. The fact that the tuner said something negative about Michael's car and then told the potential buyer about another car in the same conversation is fairly damning. That makes it much less likely to be honest advice and much more likely to be underhand sales tactics. At the same time, if I'm buying a car and I call up a tuner, I want him to recommend to me the best car he knows of within my price bracket. If he thinks one car has been driven hard and knows another hasn't.......

Basically I think there's quite a factors to be considered and before reputations are damaged, everything needs to be ascertained with complete clarity. The best thing in my opinion would be for the people in question to speak privately to Michael, and sort it out. If they have wronged him, then they should apologise. I still think it was worthwhile bringing this topic to the forum, because it prevents anything like this from happening again. 

Lastly, I would like to say thank you to Michael, who sold me an awesome machine, at a decent price, and took excellent care of me while I was up in Aberdeen. An absolutely top bloke.


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## MichaelG (Feb 21, 2002)

A very good post mate.

And my pleasure, youre very welcome back up here anytime to breath the "fresh air" lol  

Michael


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## moses (Mar 1, 2003)

nice post deviljin and congrats on owning a cool skyline  




lol devil=jinn thats what we call it in arabic so how do u know that


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## -[c0Ka|Ne]- (Jan 1, 2004)

Your from London?! I retract my statement about you being a mofo! So......where do you live in London. Exactly


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Not wishing to start an elimination game here but I've been asked to make it clear that this thread does not refer to Gary at GTART. I think it's only fair to point that out.


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

Not many tuners left now.......
It isn't Rod Bell either.


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## Andy Barnes (Jan 28, 2002)

*Tuner*

Isnt us.......


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## johnnyTightlips (Jun 17, 2003)

would be very mad if it was Abbey M. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm SHOCK!!!!!!


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2004)

fookit. 

cant be arsed to throw more gasoline on the pyre.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2004)

but I will say that frankly the way some of the more prominent 'Skyline related' businesses have conducted themselves on this forum alone made my mind up about where my money gets spent.


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

The plot thickens.


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## MUS26C (Sep 15, 2003)

The outcome will be interesting with the elimination thing going around , I can't wait to see the outcome


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## skylinelee (Aug 5, 2002)

think we'll ave to get inspector morse on the job 


i'll get me coat


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## Skunk141 (Nov 24, 2003)

MichaelG said:


> *
> Those of you who said that its better to have proof/evidence first, i totally agree.....thats why i didnt name and shame in my first post. Totally right. So i have since found out, that not only do i have the forwarded email to back up my claim, but as seconds i also have the word of a third party now again, who had phoned this place and ALSO got told the same......so thats now two people who have been told the same thing......one in email, one in conversation on phone....
> *


After reading that my only view is you don't need people like that in the Skyline community, weather you name them or not it's pretty obvious who they are now, intresting to see if they post but by the sounds of it there is no excuse apart from greed.


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## DevilJin (Jan 16, 2004)

Hi Moses, DevilJin is a character in this arcade games series called Tekken. But I speak Arabic as well, so I was aware of the Jinn = demon meaning. I was tempted to get a black GTR, with tinted windows and dark red neons, and have a J1NN numebr plate

Cokaine - no offence taken at "mofo", I also use it as a figure of speech. I live in Northeast London. I ain't telling you exactly where till I get a third, fourth and fifth alarm fitted! 

On a serious note, how many of you guys have trackers in additon to alarms and immobilisers, because I've been getting loads of attention since I got the car and although my insurance company doesn't require it, I'm tempted to get a tracker for peace of mind.


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## moses (Mar 1, 2003)

cheers mate,  yeah jinns are might beasts


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## -[c0Ka|Ne]- (Jan 1, 2004)

DevilJin - I was calling you a mofo because you bought a Skyline. Then when I realised you live in London I was like " Better not abuse him because he could take me for a spin in his new baby!" But now you won't dislcose exactly where you are I retract my previous statement about you not being a mofo. You are a mofo    

I would have thought a tracker would be beneficial, a lot of posts as of late about thefts, etc. How much does it cost to keep something like that up and running though?


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## DevilJin (Jan 16, 2004)

Sure I'll take you for a spin. I live in Wanstead, and my no. is 07887 914 964. 

The cheapest tracker I've come across is £260, for Tracker Retrieve. That just sends a signal so yiou can trace the car. There's more fancy ones which alert you on your mobile when the car is moved without deactivating the tracker alarm. 

I think annual fee is around £30, but I need to check that.


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## -[c0Ka|Ne]- (Jan 1, 2004)

Damn, you serious?! I wasn't expecting that  Cheers m8, I would love that, I'll drop you a line sometime in the near future 
I live in Edmonton Green myself

Naturally pricey, but I would have thought very worth it in the long run, plus with technology like that up your sleeve, you don't need to put yourself at risk ie. confront the intruders.

Back to the main topic, any new devlopments? I expect everyone is waiting to see what will happen next.


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## Gez (Jan 8, 2003)

Edmonton ehhh! Not too far away from me  

Cheers

Gerry


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## LSR (Jun 4, 2003)

DevilJin - It isn't wise to post a phone number on a public forum. Members of this club won't abuse such given information, but it may be used by thieves who are aware of this site and are looking for information. You should have PMd cokane that item of information instead. Phone no should be edited.

Anyway, as said, what happened to Micheal isn't in the spirit of this community. Also, a car which has a hard life is somewhat good because that is what these cars are designed for - to take abuse on the drag strip and on trackdays. These cars aren't garage queens, and they will still be reliable given correct maintenance and driving techniques.


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## MichaelG (Feb 21, 2002)

Hi folks

After some serious thought and discussion over this with various people this weekend, its made me feel bad for posting this in the first place, but also for not disclosing the tuner.

To be honest, i didnt put up this post to cause the person any loss of business or for people to be able to have a go at him for it therafter, but i am still to this day very very angry at what was done. It could have seen me stuck with my car for the next few months, because he had ruined a potential sale by spouting a lie which had in turn swayed a buyer into not buying my car. It did this, but luckily for me Deviljin decided to come view and run the car for himself and found that the allegation was completely untrue and unnecessary.

Now in naming this tuner, i am only doing it in the hope that it will prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future, Its been said a few times on this thread already, but i, like others would be VERY disappointed if i found that i was using a certain tuner and forking out money to someone who basically is only really concerned with his own personal gain rather than the whole gain of those he provides a service to and those around him in the community.

A lot of you may be very surprised, but judging by the comments already on this thread, i think not only have some people guessed, but some seem to be very "unsurprised" at who it potentially is, and i have been told that its not the first time he has done something like this to someone. 

This has led me,without meaning to stir a hornets nest, to basically tell you all that the Tuner in question was Mark at Abbey Motorsport. I couldnt believe it when i saw the email, as i had always thought of this company as a professional and well conducted place with a lot of respect from their work. 

My car had about £4000+ worth of receipts from Abbey from its first owner, and when it was sold to myself, i bought the car from someone who had been told before HIS purchase of the vehicle that the car was brilliant. A really good buy, and looked after.

So .......as stated by myself earlier on here, why all of a sudden had my car went downhill into something that had a hard life and why did this tuner even make this comment which would only raise a doubt in the mind of the the potential buyer. 

I honestly do not think, or would like to HOPE that Mark didnt do this to be nasty, but i really dont see the point in it at all to start with. Theres a very good old saying that goes ....

"If you have nothing nice to say then dont say anything at all......"

Now i can totally appreciate that if my car was a "raft" or a "shed" as they say, then the tuner would be potentially warning the buyer of what he was genuinely getting into,and i dont have a problem with that, i would appreciate being told this myself. BUT on this occasion it was nothing but a lie in order to achieve what i can only see as being an attempt to sell one of his own cars over mine.

This really saddens me. 

I would however like to state that Abbey were contacted at a later stage by another prospective buyer, and Tony at Abbey genuinely advised the party that he knew of the car but "didnt really know enough at present to comment"

Now this comment in my eyes was fine, a genuine response to a genuine enguiry to a car which he hadnt seen for over 3 years. This would have sufficed in the first place by Mark i feel. 

Nevertheless the car is now sold, and the new owner is more than highly delighted as you can all see by his posts. It just really angered me at first, and now that i have mulled over it since the sale really saddens me to think that this was done and could have cost me a sale had Deviljin not shown a keen interest. 

Some of you may have had this experience before, and some of you may have had good dealings with Mark, but from the folder of receipts supplied with my car when i purchased it, i could only see great care for my car by the first owner when serviced by Abbey and it just shows what can be said by some people in order that they can make for their own personal gain, as was the case here.

A needless comment, untrue, and very disappointing. 

Some of you may frown on me for this, but i would like to hope that the majority of you are behind me. I dont want the same to happen to anyone else as it makes you feel really 5hit, and i was actually quite saddened. I just feel you should know what happens behind peoples backs no matter how nice or professional you think someone is. 

Either way its done now, and i have moved on from it. Just wanted to highlight what had happened to me and hope that it doesnt happen again. 

I would also lastly like to thank Rod Bell, who took time from his day to speak to potential buyers on a few occasions over the past two weeks. He managed to give an always "as honest" opinion and told it "how it was" in regards to the car. I couldnt have asked for better praise from someone who knows the car and has an opinion and advice which most would hold of a high value. Thanks Rod. 

Michael


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## -[c0Ka|Ne]- (Jan 1, 2004)

That post took a lot of courage Michael 

All the best, so whats your next car going to be?


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## Gez (Jan 8, 2003)

Very brave indeed Michael! I didnt think Abbey would go that low.

Good luck with the business.

Kind regards

Gerry


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## Bassman (Dec 17, 2003)

Well, speaking as a satisfied Abbey customer, albeit I have had no dealings with Mark directly (actually I don't think I've ever met him). I would like him to post his side of the story before passing judgment on whether I continue to take my business to Abbey.

Michael - I can understand you being extremely miffed if it is as you say. This type of conduct would be VERY unprofessional. However, I would be interested to know if you attempted to contact Mark and ask him what he was up to prior to posting your last message?
It's all a bit 'Dr Kelly revisited' for me at the moment - maybe we need an enquiry

Needless to say I have had no problems with the guys I have dealt with at Abbey and, whilst I am not defending them, it would be interesting to see if there is any 'official' comment from the Company.

As silence is often taken as a sign of guilt and it looks like the procecution rests. Perhaps it is time for the defence to state it's case!!


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2004)

Get over it.  

Abbey still has my business.


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## Skunk141 (Nov 24, 2003)

I wouldn't go there now, very dis honest


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## vennuth (Aug 2, 2001)

Besty said:


> *Get over it.  *


You wouldn't be saying that if it was you that lost a sale due to unfounded lies...  

Michael - well done! Glad it worked out in the end for you anyway. 

Rob


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## Talat (Jun 29, 2001)

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Anyone who is shocked by this whole episode is naive IMO.

T.


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

Keep off the bandwagon please guys.
Has any attempt been made to communicate with the tuners to establish any reasons?

Cem


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## somberg (Jun 27, 2001)

Blow Dog said:


> *Keep off the bandwagon please guys.
> Has any attempt been made to communicate with the tuners to establish any reasons?
> 
> Cem *


My idea, that's what I've been saying all the time. See my previous post in this thread.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2004)

vennuth said:


> *You wouldn't be saying that if it was you that lost a sale due to unfounded lies...
> Rob *


Funny, because I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this was true in the first place.

If the car was so good then the guy would have bought it regardless. Has the guy that didn't buy this car bought another one??? I somehow doubt it.

Had £4500 spent on it (plus however much since the previous owner) but never had a hard life??? That's just typical of a number people on this forum.

Does this sound familiar..." My Skyline has 450+ bhp but I've never thrashed it!!!" What do you do, take it to Tescos every Sunday... but only if it's sunny, and ooooh, never taken it above 4000 rpm.

If this car has never had a hard life then that is the crime. To have a modified Skyline and not use it for what it's meant for it just unbelievable to me.

If anyone thinks that this is going to affect customers of Abbey then I thinks they're very wrong. I've had work done there on my car, mainly because they are close to where I live. I'm not biased. I've been to GT-Art and met Gary and have loads of respect for him also. I'm sure I will ask him to do work for me in the near future. 

I've always been impressed with the professionalism, quality and customer service at Abbey, and this is what is important. I fail to see why anyone there should be made to answer for something that really is very insignificant. What counts is the years of good service to the Skyline community. Not the whinings of someone who took 2 extra weeks to sell their car.

Boo-hoo. Get over it.  

Get yourself an Almera. BUT REMEMBER.. DON'T GIVE IT A HARD LIFE!!!!!


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## Hamish (Aug 3, 2001)

I think we can see already the people with a 'vested interest' in Abbey trying to down-play what they did, even doubt whether it actually happened. I suppose it's understandable really. From keeping up with the posts on this thread it seems that Michael has sufficient independant information to back up what appears to have happened. And I think if this was all 'Chinese whispers' and was being massively exaggerated, we'd have had a reply from the offending person. His silence speaks volumes!

Knowing how frustrating the selling of a car can be, someone who pulls such an underhand tactic deserves all they get. I've been shafted by far too many dodgy f*ckers in the car trade in the past. The honest ones should get the trade. I think Michael should be praised for 'naming and shaming'.


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

> [If the car was so good then the guy would have bought it regardless. Has the guy that didn't buy this car bought another one??? I somehow doubt it.
> 
> I've always been impressed with the professionalism, quality and customer service at Abbey, and this is what is important. I fail to see why anyone there should be made to answer for something that really is very insignificant. What counts is the years of good service to the Skyline community. Not the whinings of someone who took 2 extra weeks to sell theres]


Now I am sat on the fence. I agree with this quote, well all you said really, but i agree with michael at the same time and if he has proof then... 
but deos this mean Abbey are bad? NO it dun't. I dont know them I am new to the Skyline (and I'am loving it!!!!!!!) 
I intended to phone Abbey for some advice on tunning, I am not put off by this at all, I will still be making the call...

Is It Abbey who did Rockect Ronnies Car?????


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## NoNothin (Aug 6, 2003)

Hamish said:


> *
> Knowing how frustrating the selling of a car can be, someone who pulls such an underhand tactic deserves all they get. I've been shafted by far too many dodgy f*ckers in the car trade in the past. The honest ones should get the trade. I think Michael should be praised for 'naming and shaming'. *


Totally agree. When you take your car to a garage, any garage, you are putting a lot of faith in them. They know there is very little chance of you checking their work so you have to trust them.

If anything should erode that trust then I would think twice about using the place. It is not just about someone trying to sell their car before yours, it is about their whole attitude and the way they conduct their business.

There are plenty of people who will stick their heads in the sand and ignore the evidence, that is up to them. Like hamish said, let the cream rise, hopefully this will make it less painful for us all in the long run.


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## bladerider (Jun 29, 2002)

I would just point out that Mark is in Japan on holiday/business at the moment and therefore may not even know about this thread.

I also think it is a shame that this has gotten to the point where Michael felt he had no choice but to name Abbeys. At the end of the day there are no winners from this kind of thing. We all lose, either faith in a company, faith in the community or worry about our own cars and what has been done to them or what will happen should we come to sell. Its a very sad day IMHO.

I would just say that I dont understand the rude and confrontational manner of your posts Besty. As someone who speaks their mind I fully understand where you are coming from, but the manner in which you do it detracts from any validity your posts may contain.

J.


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

I think this thread has reached it's conclusion now and nothing much constructive will come of it especially if any further posts are along the same lines of Besty's. Michael appears to have had a problem which he has now aired, and I only say appears as I have not been a party to the information. 

However, I am reluctant to close it at this stage until Mark has had the opportunity to defend himself especially if he is not even around to be able to do so. I am sure that Tony has read this so if he could let me know if he wants this remain open until Mark returns, perhaps he could let me know....

In the meantime, can we please keep any further posts as constructive and non-confrontational as possible.


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## MichaelG (Feb 21, 2002)

My apologies once again for opening this can of worms. 

I stated before that i didnt wish to open a hornets nest, but i am NOT going to see someone do this and remain silent. 

For all i know Mark could be a very nice guy who made a comment out of character, on an off day, but the fact remains he did it and it could have made selling my car very difficult to near impossible.

I have already stated twice that i have the word of one person who was told on the phone, and ALSO THE EMAIL FROM ANOTHER forwarded to myself saying again the same. I am not in the habit of copying and pasting peoples emails for all the vultures to read and pick at, and those of you who disbelieve me and think i would do this just to stir 5hit arent even worth replying to.

I have made a few very good friends on here, and am on a good personal friendship basis with a few of the more well respected members on here. I am not in the habit of putting a cat amongst the pigeons so to speak for no reason, and i think Besty you need to think before you speak on this occasion. 

You dont know me, and you dont know what happened. You take the mickey out of me with your "boo hoo get over it" quote etc but fact remains if this was YOU it had happened to would you be so cocksure of your comments and so arrogant ?  

Now i really dont aim to get personal on here, but if thats all you have to say then mate, then it isnt exactly worth reading. I knew there would be people thinking i did the right / wrong thing, but none of them have responded in a way you have, Get a life.

As far as i am concerned, this is now finished with, for those of you who asked, i didnt contact Mark at Abbey, because 

1) I have no wish to debate with someone who makes a comment like that over WHY he made the comment. He made it and, i have the EMAIL IN FRONT OF ME forwarded to myself, and i also have the word of a totally separate party on a separate occasion.

2) Tony at Abbey made a comment on the car which i found acceptable, and in doing this made me realise that maybe Marks comment was made when he was having a bad day, and wasnt worth wasting money on a phone call over. 

If people are going to make negative comments about MY car in order to sell their own, then why would i want to waste my time and money talking to them ????

For those of you who think i am right in doing this, thanks,i actually feel pretty 5hit for doing it, but with advice from some close friends on here we all agreed it was in the best interests of the Forum and the GTR Community.

I have no beef with Mark, and i dont see why he would have anything against me, thats what saddened me. 

I just have no wish to see someone prosper, someone who would take your money with the right hand and stab you in the back with their left.

Cem - Aplogies if this thread has gotten out of hand, Was never intended to. 

This will be my final comment in regards to this matter as we could go on and on all year. 

CokaIne - Its going to be something that i can play about with.....something thats not so good i dont want to thrash it ! 

Gez - Cheers mate, keep polishing ! 

Michael


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## vennuth (Aug 2, 2001)

Besty said:


> *Funny, because I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this was true in the first place.
> 
> If the car was so good then the guy would have bought it regardless. Has the guy that didn't buy this car bought another one??? I somehow doubt it.
> 
> ...


Not trying to have an argument, I have beter things to do, but your post was absolute tosh, and as Bladey said, rude and confrontational. 

"If the car was so good then the guy would have bought it regardless"

If this was the case, and he felt confident enough in his abilities to spot a decent/duff car then he wouldn't have asked abbeys opinion on it in the first place. 

"Does this sound familiar..." My Skyline has 450+ bhp but I've never thrashed it!!!" What do you do, take it to Tescos every Sunday... but only if it's sunny, and ooooh, never taken it above 4000 rpm."

In that case, you are condemning Abbeys comments further still, as in your opinion no Skyline has had a hard life, therefore what must have happened to Michaels' to justify Abbeys comments, was it used to plough fields?  

"Not the whinings of someone who took 2 extra weeks to sell their car." 

The issue isn't the 2 week delay in selling the car, because 2 weeks could have been 2 months, it was just fortunate that DevilJin came along. That is a total irrelevance. Perhaps you've never had difficulties selling something, but when you loose a sale due to someone speaking (what is in most peoples' opinions crap) you'll appreciate why people are so annoyed. 

Rob


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

*Tuner mentality*

I'm surprised it was Abbey, but also not surprised at the same time...

When my LM "blew up" (intercooler hose came off, but it seemed much more serious at the time) I was told a similar yarn by the tuner (not Abbey incidentally) who was looking after the car.
I was told that the engine was tired, that it had a hard life in the hands of its previous owner - they even went as far as telling me that allegedly the car had been run on a track just prior to it being sold to me, and that "all 4 tyres had been shredded in the process". When I spoke the previous owner about this he told me this was far from the case.

The point of me mentioning this is that this tuner was more than happy to work on the car and sing its praises while it was in the custody of the previous owner, and he had plenty of invoices to prove it. But when it was owned by someone else, when something went wrong they were quick to blame the previous owner for having no mechanical sympathy for the car.

It's a shame that this comment was made about Michael's car, but I don't find it wholly surprising in the grand scheme of things.


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

I think this thread has run its course now.
If Abbey feel the need to comment, then I will gladly re-open this thread.

Cem


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