# Mines Skyline why does it rev up so quick!!



## rayman (May 26, 2004)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M7XNdeYE-0&mode=related&search=


Could anyone tell me why this mines skyline revs so quick through the gears, its near the end of the video. 

Keichi Tsuchiya comment was it makes a dead man scream.

Ray


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

Do a search on " SteveN Mines " you should get plenty of answers


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## ChristianR (May 31, 2005)

its been discussed on here before, and the answer was because mines is the second coming of Jesus :chuckle:


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## Nismoalex (Sep 24, 2003)

Quick delete the thread before SteveN sees it.... LOL


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

*sarcasm mode on*

Its cause its AMAZING, such a groundbreaking and powerful engine tune!

AWESOME engine. Nothing to do with gearing though, oh no.

Fastest car in the world, no other GTR engine revs like a Mines RB26! 

Its that special combination of N1 internals and 2530s that NOBODY else uses that makes it so great! Ultimate Response!

Mines RULES, yo!


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

PMSL @ Steve.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

short final & tomei internals

Peforms better than theoretical, never-ending projects


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## Durzel (Dec 5, 2001)

DCD said:


> Peforms better than theoretical, never-ending projects


:clap: opcorn:


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

DCD said:


> Peforms better than theoretical, never-ending projects


PMSL, I hope that's not misconstrued as being unfriendly... :chairshot


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Peter said:


> misconstrued


No it wont be, its obvious it was


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## GTRules (Oct 20, 2005)

thats my favourite video! imagine a race between the supra and the skyline,that supra would loose so much time fannying about with oversteer..


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## -C- (Oct 16, 2003)

I believe its also down the super high octane man fat that Yanus/GTRZilla supplied in vast quantities whenever this car was mentioned.

I also believe this is why it was white, for wipe clean potential.


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## V_Spec (Aug 19, 2006)

ChristianR said:


> and the answer was because mines is the second coming of Jesus :chuckle:


hehehe . i bet Nikura san its the mesiah


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## skyline69_uk (Jan 6, 2005)

-C- said:


> I believe its also down the super high octane man fat that Yanus/GTRZilla supplied in vast quantities whenever this car was mentioned.
> 
> I also believe this is why it was white, for wipe clean potential.


Now THAT is fcuking funny PMSL.


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## White_R32 (Aug 13, 2006)

Well for a mediocre package its sure kicks some ass! lot more thn can be said for people on here and their projects consisting of B&Q copper pipes and othe garden centre accessories and hyped up 800+ bhp projects thats promise so much yet all it delivers is hot air and internet talk followed by hype!
lmao hahaha


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## White_R32 (Aug 13, 2006)

Well for a mediocre package its sure kicks some ass! lot more thn can be said for people on here and their projects consisting of B&Q copper pipes and othe garden centre accessories and hyped up 800+ bhp projects thats promise so much yet all it delivers is hot air and internet talk followed by hype!
lmao hahaha


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

no not trying to be unfriendly. Just trying to get the point across that it's extremely easy to criticize....


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## Miness (Aug 24, 2005)

well it sure performs on a track considering its virtually a road car...and i dont think mines have said there's any "ungodly" mod on the car..lol

IMO the mines car is the best road legal skyline there is..period


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## White_R32 (Aug 13, 2006)

People are just jelous as they have spent thousands and thousand on their own skyline and seldom delivers the performance that is expected.


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

"IMO the mines car is the best road legal skyline there is..period"

Unless you're on the autobahn trying to outdrag the Blitz R348 with your go-kart Mines diff ratios.


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## Lamb (Sep 25, 2003)

Well its each to there own opinion......

The Mine's 34 is an awesome car though......from what ive read up on it the head work has alot to do with its rapid response.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

lightspeed said:


> "IMO the mines car is the best road legal skyline there is..period"
> 
> Unless you're on the autobahn trying to outdrag the Blitz R348 with your go-kart Mines diff ratios.


LOL....seems people forget these cars can actually go around corners....


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## Chou (Apr 18, 2005)

the ultimate GTR in my eyes


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

It doesn't take 1980's T88's and RB30's to go fast. It takes an understanding of parts interacting together.

Its subtle mods, working together.

Low duration, high lift cams, 86mm pistons, a light clutch, light driveline. 3.7 gears (they say). 2530's. N1 R34.

Its a basic combo that works well. Most see something like this, and decide they want that but more. And in wanting more, they dont address what they should.

Area under the curve.


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## Miness (Aug 24, 2005)

lightspeed said:


> "IMO the mines car is the best road legal skyline there is..period"
> 
> Unless you're on the autobahn trying to outdrag the Blitz R348 with your go-kart Mines diff ratios.


fair point but lets see the same two cars round tsukuba..horses for courses


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

Not saying I don't like it - just that it's not the greatest all rounder.

Interesting on their website under complete engine they show one all in pieces and it using a standard crank which has been seriously lightened.
I have a better picture of one in a magazine here. Counterbalance weights are machined right back.

Do they use this engine spec in their demo car or a full counter crank?

I am guessing everything on that car is chosen for weight.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

They use full Tomei internals on their car....thay have also used anything to a little over 2.6 all the way to 2.8


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

It does look like very short gearing, which isnt a bad thing when you have more RPM to play with.


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## White_R32 (Aug 13, 2006)

Im not surprised the Mines car regularly gets slagged off here, its part of our culture and the british mentality to do that! 

Its not as short gearing as people suggests, its about 3.7:1 according to dinos report in J tuner mag. 

Why is Mines such an excellent tunign company? attention to detail and perfection, they have come up with a package that can put many companies to shame, and their times on Tsukuba circuit and others speaks for itself!


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

White_R32 said:


> Its not as short gearing as people suggests, its about 3.7:1 according to dinos report in J tuner mag.


Is that with the standard 6 speed box?

I absolutely love MINE's methodology towards tuning cars, everything is purposeful about their stuff.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

I have run the Getrag with 4.11 gears, and it didn't seem nearly as short as the Mines car. 

They do have some magic parts in their builds.


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## Mycroft (Apr 13, 2002)

It seems that [at last] the thing that I have droned on about for ages is now getting the attention it deserves, the reason the car is so fast with modest work is that they have made the damned thing 'turbine', it is the last great trick to getting a car to move quickly.

[Check my posts from a few years back...]


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

Get one here:
http://www.mines-wave.com/temp/bnr34-gtr/used_bnr34_menu.html

or for the hobby engineers:

http://www.mines-wave.com/Demo-Car/R34gtr/index.html


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## daytona (Jun 28, 2005)

What does 'Making It Turbine' Mean?


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## Pavlo (Sep 12, 2002)

daytona said:


> What does 'Making It Turbine' Mean?


It means that Mycroft wants to confuse you with lingo to make himself look clever. Don't worry about it


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## Mycroft (Apr 13, 2002)

daytona said:


> What does 'Making It Turbine' Mean?


To 'turbine' is to make the the engine accelerate faster and faster simply as a result of a surfeit of impetus.

Every Turbo engine has this potential but due to engine design it is not actually capable of doing so.

The motor has to be a short stroke with short conrods too, the old problem with such a conformation is that torque at low revs is compromised, this doesn't matter too much in racing motors or heavily modded ones, but road cars are dreadful when so designed.

One such car was the original Lamborghini Urraco which to this day remains the only road engine that was not tubo charged to almost turbine of its own accord. but you could stall it even with 2k revs at start up???

The way 'round this is to have small turbos that can both allow the motor to turbine and still provide enough 'puff' low down to overcome the lack of 'natural' torque.

It is precisely because of this seemingly irreconcilable problem that the Jap engineers designed the Ceramic turbos that many cars ran/run on.

To turbine is simply the ability of an engine with partial load to [with an open throttle] accelerate in any 1000 rpm increment faster than it did in the previous 1000 rpm increment.

The important bit is just how much load it can take and still do this trick, that is why small turbos that come on song as early as possible is the way to go, a big single will give the biggest gross figure for power but will be laggardly until it get on song...

This is how some cars with less 'power' simply trounce others with much greater power, smooth progressive power that comes in early and just builds is far faster in the real world driving than any 'behemoth' with outrageous power numbers...

Still as Pavlo [the wonderdog] says in his own unique way... I know fvck all...


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

Sorry for the monkey, but what in gods name is a a result of a surfeit of impetus??


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## Marky_GTSt (Dec 31, 2005)

gtrlux said:


> Sorry for the monkey, but what in gods name is a a result of a surfeit of impetus??


It means an excessive ammount of power or force.


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## Mycroft (Apr 13, 2002)

An engines ability to simply increase revs at all is due to the fact that there is a natural 'gain' for the additional fuel put in, if you enrich the mixture then it will try to achieve its stoichiometric balance, to do this for the additional fuel it increases the revs.

The above is not turbining.

The difference is with forced induction you can force the engine to rev just by having the additional puff.

The above is the START of turbining.

The trick is to have that puff and a naturally revvy motor with very minor angular momentum [internally] to overcome. A short stroke and short conrods make this possible.

The above provide the conditions that will allow turbining.

If you can combine the last to instances and bring in the turbos early enough, you provide the impetus to allow turbining to happen.

A big turbo will 'turbine' but only at very high revs... thereby it has to overcome its early shortfall before it can do the trick.

A good turbined engine will start doing this at < 2000rpm.

It is then that you get the greatest effect... as my old pal LJK Setright in his usual perfect grammar once said... "The effect is of acceleration accelerating"


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

So the Mines has much more torque availble at low rev?


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## Mycroft (Apr 13, 2002)

Depends on what you define as 'low revs' in that car the range in which the turbing was in effect was from 3500 to 9000 rpm.

That is turbining over a very big range indeed, I was impressed with that, re-run the video and watch that rev counter, it snaps through each 1000 rpm increment faster than the previous one even on full load... class act... that car will 'feel' and will actually be really bloody fast or as the little guy said 'too fast' it will accelerate in a manner completely out of proportion to its max power figure would suggest.


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

So we can say it is probably the most unusual but effective tuned RB bloc in Japan.(for track-racing use)


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## donk_316 (Jul 14, 2006)

So how did they pull this off with a stock internal (Dimension wise) RB26 and HKS 2530 turbos then?


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## Mycroft (Apr 13, 2002)

The Skyline motor is a short stroke short conrod motor.

The conditions are right for turbining, the main problem with the Skyline motor has always been that most tuners simply go for big power numbers [headline numbers] and thereby largely ignoring the turbine effect.

The second one is that many of its internals [due to the shock of dealing with the loads imposed by having for wheel drive] are 'over-engineered'... put in some lighter pistons, remove some of the heavier transmission parts with [expensive] lighter ones and you are there.


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## donk_316 (Jul 14, 2006)

Huh. I have never heard of this "turbining" before...

Thanks for the information.


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## Mycroft (Apr 13, 2002)

It came from the original steam turbines that needed a 'governor' to stop the turbine accelerating without end... well... until it self-destructed due to vibration etc etc... turbining is still seen in many engineering minds as a destructive thing.

But generally that is termed as 'Destructive Turbining' [fairly obviously] and simply turbining now has come to mean generally the ability [wanted or not] to accelerate at progressively greater rates.

Info is free, you are also free to ignore or digest it.


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## daytona (Jun 28, 2005)

Interesting read, new term to me as well, think i'm getting my head around itopcorn: Do i take it then that there could be a disadvantage in running a 3.0 litre as a track car as these tend to be stroked motors?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Interesting, I have never heard of it, or I never paid attention to it before.

Never heard it applied to a piston engine. I worked on gas turbine engines for a few years in the US Navy. I know and understand the principles they work on.

I'll have to go back and re-read it, and come to some conclusions.

I have talked at length with Mr. Tamura about RB26's, and theres a few things he keys on for best response.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Mycroft said:


> It is precisely because of this seemingly irreconcilable problem that the Jap engineers designed the Ceramic turbos that many cars ran/run on.


The problem with the ceramics are they aren't as good as they first thought that they could be. The size of the exhaust wheel needs to be thicker to be strong enough to survive.

The reason for using them seemed to be weight, but in the end a well designed metal wheel gives up little.

The 1987 Buick GNX had a ceramic exhaust wheel in its turbine also. I am pretty sure this wasn't the first year it was used.


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## impreziv (Jan 29, 2006)

hmm, very interesting.

i have been planning to install a Mines stage2 engine this winter, but i had recently been losing enthusiasm over the GT2530s, and wanting something different for turbos. 

reading your explaination of this, Mycroft, has made me realize how delicate of a balance the engineering is for the end result. i think ill stick to their specification


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## donk_316 (Jul 14, 2006)

impreziv said:


> hmm, very interesting.
> 
> i have been planning to install a Mines stage2 engine this winter, but i had recently been losing enthusiasm over the GT2530s, and wanting something different for turbos.
> 
> reading your explaination of this, Mycroft, has made me realize how delicate of a balance the engineering is for the end result. i think ill stick to their specification


Yeah i know what you mean... i was looking at the 2530 first then decided it would be too "big" for what i wanted... but this whole conversation into the Mines RB26 has got me thinkin...


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## MeLLoN Stu (Jun 9, 2005)

Love that vid of the mines R34 and the Amuse supra, really special cars for me  

sorry to go OT for a minute, but is there a mine's site or someone with a semi comprehensive stock of mines stuff in stock for GTR's anywhere in the world that has a site in english?


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

What about the new Tomei Genesis setup?
How does it compare to the more "older" MInes setup?
Tomei uses the new Arms B7652 Turbos.:flame:


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## Rockon (Jan 28, 2006)

What are the specs of the internals here? (Maybe I missed something..)

Is it possible to buy a complete engine from mines? Ready to go? What price in that case


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## Mycroft (Apr 13, 2002)

If you decide to "pick'n'mix" then you run the risk of losing the cohesion of a system that has been engineered to perform in this way.

You really do need to know exactly what you are doing to get this to work and even then it is a very difficult trick to get any sort of range over which it works.

What you see in that vid is not just good it is the result of a huge amount of work in balancing every aspect of the way each piece of kit works or progresses another.

Ceramics are fine, we in the west just turned up the boost without thinking and screwed them, I did it myself in my endeavour to get my Soarer to turbine over a greater range [the 1JZ will turbine from 2500 to 5000 rpm as standard] in the end after a huge amount of work [even with that great starting point] it was a year before I managed to extend it down to 2000 and upto 7000.

I ran no more than 1.1bar boost and ran a fairly lowly 360hp but the car punched so far above its weight it that 360hp told only a tiny part of the story.

On the road to completely out accelerate a Porsche GT2 from 70 to 130 was the result, combined with a 30 to 70 time of just 3.6 seconds meant that it was literally a supercar crusher.

The real proof of how this works for me was when my near neighbour [who worked for TTE europe] and I lined up his 720hp Supra against my car in a rolling test on the M4, the supra was weighed the same but had exactly twice the bhp at 70mph we lined up side by side one quiet early summers morning and on HIS signal we gunned the cars... I left him standing to 110mph, he only then started to make up the difference and by 130 he was at my side and started to leave me.

On any run on give and take roads he was in a clumsy awkward car simply because the damned thing was not consistent because it was not working as a whole.

It is for the same reason that modern cars accelerate faster for the same power and weight than older cars, the real trick is cohesive design, bolt on goodies taken from a dozen different modifiers is just a lottery, you might be lucky but the odds are against you.


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

Mycroft said:


> The real proof of how this works for me was when my near neighbour [who worked for TTE europe] and I lined up his 720hp Supra against my car in a rolling test on the M4, the supra was weighed the same but had exactly twice the bhp at 70mph we lined up side by side one quiet early summers morning and on HIS signal we gunned the cars... I left him standing to 110mph, he only then started to make up the difference and by 130 he was at my side and started to leave me.


Yeah, the same way a 1.6 Fiat MPV ran away from a Evo 400FQ as seen on TopGear. 

Fiat the masters of 'Turbining' :chuckle:


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## impreziv (Jan 29, 2006)

MeLLoN Stu said:


> Love that vid of the mines R34 and the Amuse supra, really special cars for me
> 
> sorry to go OT for a minute, but is there a mine's site or someone with a semi comprehensive stock of mines stuff in stock for GTR's anywhere in the world that has a site in english?


Prospec-Motorsports used to have the full lineup on their site, but that was their only dealer outside of Japan at the time. 

SCI Motors in canada has recently become one of their Dealers. they only list the Stage-1 and Stage-2 RB26 engines on the site... they are working on flying over the Mine's engineers to make a "Canadian conditions" ECU for the GTR.


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## Mazinger (Jan 2, 2003)

IIRC the mines GTR has 4.11 gears, I remember this from a best motoring or HV video, I'll post it if I remember which vol it was.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Mazinger said:


> IIRC the mines GTR has 4.11 gears, I remember this from a best motoring or HV video, I'll post it if I remember which vol it was.



Maybe some GTS 4.3 ? 


Its funny how people want a car like the Mines car, then they buy 1/2 the stuff that Mines sells and recommends and probably wont get the same results.


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## Mazinger (Jan 2, 2003)

watch it and tell me, I just guessed the gearing was 4.11, my katakana is not very good, but i'm improving
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8491008143304780819


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## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

impreziv said:


> Prospec-Motorsports used to have the full lineup on their site, but that was their only dealer outside of Japan at the time.
> 
> SCI Motors in canada has recently become one of their Dealers. they only list the Stage-1 and Stage-2 RB26 engines on the site... they are working on flying over the Mine's engineers to make a "Canadian conditions" ECU for the GTR.


Mines only did stage 1 and stage 2
If i remember correctly the stage 1 was around the £10,000 and the stage 2 was around £13,000 before vat.
Thanks for all the info Mycroft, i choose to digest it


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## gtrlux (Mar 8, 2006)

I had never seen this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSsvx6uFZmY


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## roadie (Feb 6, 2006)

I had a 180sx that did this "turbining thingamajig". A big single, but when she started to spool (from 5000-9500rpm) the revs accelerated faster, the faster they went. The car seemed to cover 100-200km/h faster than 0-100km/h....


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

roadie said:


> I had a 180sx that did this "turbining thingamajig". A big single, but when she started to spool (from 5000-9500rpm) the revs accelerated faster, the faster they went. The car seemed to cover 100-200km/h faster than 0-100km/h....



Boost and wastegate. If you leave the wastegate closed, it will continue to make boost, and continue to make power, accelerate faster.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

rayman said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M7XNdeYE-0&mode=related&search=
> 
> 
> Could anyone tell me why this mines skyline revs so quick through the gears, its near the end of the video.
> ...


The internals of the Mines R34 were machined using an Hattori Hanzo sword. No Supra can match this.


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

tyndago said:


> The problem with the ceramics are they aren't as good as they first thought that they could be. The size of the exhaust wheel needs to be thicker to be strong enough to survive.
> 
> The reason for using them seemed to be weight, but in the end a well designed metal wheel gives up little.
> 
> The 1987 Buick GNX had a ceramic exhaust wheel in its turbine also. I am pretty sure this wasn't the first year it was used.


I would have thought the main advantage of a ceramic turbine wheel was to withstand heat? if weight why not put a ceramic wheel on the compressor side.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

paul cawson said:


> I would have thought the main advantage of a ceramic turbine wheel was to withstand heat? if weight why not put a ceramic wheel on the compressor side.


The compressor side only accounts for a small fraction of the rotational inertia of the turbocharger. Evo IX GTs use a magnesium compressor wheel but, from what I've heard, this is worthless.

The turbine side operates at higher temperature, so needs more heat resistant material, which is heavier in general. Ceramic is lighter than steel but can withstand similar heat, so performs well at low boost, due to lower inertia and good heat resistance. At high boost, the ceramic blades shear from the steel shaft. It'd be interesting to see if an all ceramic turbo could be made and if that would work better. The main problem seems to be where the ceramic is bonded to the steel shaft.


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## impreziv (Jan 29, 2006)

hodgie said:


> Mines only did stage 1 and stage 2


thats right, but there are alot more products that Mine's makes, that SCI could sell, but they only sell the 2 stages of complete engines.


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

R33_GTS-t said:


> The compressor side only accounts for a small fraction Ceramic is lighter than steel but can withstand similar heat. QUOTE]
> 
> Some Ceramics have a heat resistance better than Titanium, thats why jet engine combustors are coated with it. I have just fitted R34 ceramic turbos back on my car (R32GTR) I really like the cars performance with them.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

paul cawson said:


> Some Ceramics have a heat resistance better than Titanium, thats why jet engine combustors are coated with it. I have just fitted R34 ceramic turbos back on my car (R32GTR) I really like the cars performance with them.


And then you snap the wheels off. Not worth the hassle to me. For the ceramics, its not "if" its "when" they break off.

The jet engine blades, though - they are not ceramic. They are titanium ,inconel , and other exotic type alloys that I dont know much about.

While its true that ceramics hold up well to heat, they probably don't expand much either. Perhaps they tried to run a tighter clearance on the exhaust side. This would help spool.

As I said, all good theorys, but do not hold true in real life, under real world conditions.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

Yes it says 4.111 final


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## Mycroft (Apr 13, 2002)

The main problem with ceramics is that people do not allow for their limitations.

Their improved efficiency causes over-revving internally, this causes the glue to melt and therby the turbine detaches.

The important thing is to ensure proper exhaust design.

Just a simple free-flowing the exhaust makes them perform better but then they are prone to over-rev and die.

The exhaust has to free-flow, in fact 'suck' up to about 4000rpm then it must throttle the turbine revs without destroying the flow.

To design an exhaust that does this is not easy, in fact the maths took a fair bit of work.

Building it needs a real pro, I used "Exhausts by Design" and a local man for the fine tuning.

A simple "O" section is just no good.

It is a mix of racing two-stroke designs and conventional racing design.

Heat is not an issue so long as you don't choke it too suddenly.

Getting a high pressure [more than 1 bar] is also not a problem if again you slightly change the turbine housing [on Soarers anyway] inlet.

I ran 1.4 bar from my ceramics in my other Soarer for nearly 70k miles, the turbos were the originals, so they saw 120kmiles in all.

It just takes time and a huge amount of effort.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Mycroft said:


> The main problem with ceramics is that people do not allow for their limitations.
> It just takes time and a huge amount of effort.



And honestly, can you quantify the time and effort to results ?

Was it worth it to take all the time on the exhaust, or just toss some 2530's or N1 turbos at it and run it as hard as you want.

1.4 bar... thats little boy boost.


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## Mycroft (Apr 13, 2002)

It is more of an intellectual exercise and challenge and there are other ways to get similar results, but the way the motor turbined and punched way above its weight was worth it to me.

In a very minor way it is like the little Vtec motors produced by Honda, the same can be achieved with a bigger motor or a turbo... but that entirely misses the point of the exercise.

To each their own and for each, hurrahs for standing on their own.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

paul cawson said:


> Some Ceramics have a heat resistance better than Titanium, thats why jet engine combustors are coated with it. I have just fitted R34 ceramic turbos back on my car (R32GTR) I really like the cars performance with them.


Indeed, the R34 ceramics are good enough to make a convincing argument against moving to steel. 

I wonder if the weird nickel alloys used on aircraft HP turbines will ever find their way onto automotive turbines.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

hodgie said:


> Mines only did stage 1 and stage 2
> If i remember correctly the stage 1 was around the £10,000 and the stage 2 was around £13,000 before vat.
> Thanks for all the info Mycroft, i choose to digest it


Mine's offers 2 specs yes, but like any tuner will build you anything you want. Last time I was there (about 6 months now) they had a special RRR blocked 2.8 version of their spec 2 engines featuring fully counter balanced Tomei crank and forged rods & pistone. Think that was selling for 3.5 million.


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## impreziv (Jan 29, 2006)

i was always under the impression that the ceramic turbines were very heat resistant, except that they were more fragile to impacts at higher temps. thats why if you detonate at high heat, they will shatter.


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## GTRules (Oct 20, 2005)

if the mines GTR is running 600bhp but the turbos are capable of 660bhp then hasnt it got 60bhp worth of lag or unused turbo power making it less efficient..and slower than totaly possible?


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## JAY-R32 (Sep 1, 2003)

What are the chances its making a bit more than 600hp ???


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## ExScoobyT (Jan 6, 2004)

A ceramic turbine is approx 1/3 to 1/4 less inertia than an equivalent steel wheel. This is the only reason they are used, nothing to do with heat rating. The low expansion coefficient does indeed allow for tighter tip clearance which again increases turbine effeciency.

The torque limit of the bond to the shaft is critical, boost = compressor tip-speed = turbine tip speed = torque = snapped wheel. As temp increases the critical torque limit decreases.

You can get titanium turbines which are very similar inertia wise but are more robust.


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## donk_316 (Jul 14, 2006)

Little bit of an update.

EVERY SINGLE ENGINE BUILDER i have talked too says that this "turbining effect" is the biggest load of BS ever spouted on the internet. Many even went as far as to say this "Mycroft" fellow is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

The engine revs up so fast because the engine was designed too. All the parts are matched (cam profiles / compression / turbos ) and all the rotational mass has been reduced.

Thats it. 

No magical make believe new age "turbining effect"


This topic has been on my mind for a while and needed to find the truth of the matter.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

ExScoobyT said:


> A ceramic turbine is approx 1/3 to 1/4 less inertia than an equivalent steel wheel. T


One self removed metal turbine wheel,one self removed ceramic exhaust wheel , weigh them.... Just to check....

130 grams on the metal slightly damaged 2530 turbine wheel
54 grams on the snapped off ceramic wheel with all blades intact

The turbine wheel is much heavier than the compressor wheel. Interesting. I had never really checked the weights.


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