# Digital G-sensor to improve ATTESA?



## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

Just saw this released by Do-luck:

Do Luck offical web

They say it will improve ATTESA reaction times by 30x. 

That is a good thing right?


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## Kenneth-A (Nov 15, 2011)

Is there an english description?


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

***9632; Digital G-sensor The reaction rate about 30 times faster than using a sensor, so pure digital high-sensitive G-sensor. ATTESA input to and fro G-outputs a signal which quickly ETS. Improving the effective reaction rate is in every scene. When you break in the corner, you can react faster than an overwhelming response from the sensor at intervals genuine. Start with 0-400, and react faster to changes when shifting up the G. Also acts sudden braking during deceleration, braking force can be obtained quickly and powerful 4WD is imposed.

• The OEM sensor has to reduce the maximum output of G. Since the G-sensor Digital has expanded by about 15% output, you can get a genuine honest real property even keep up with the breaking point. You can use it as a replacement to the vehicle is broken · Genuine G-sensor. R32 vehicle was released there was no advanced accelerometer is small. Genuine G-sensor to detect the G has degree swinging pendulum with oil. Not appear to be diagnostic, oil degradation in aging, and deterioration in the characteristics of the component deterioration. G-sensor Digital uses the latest electronic digital MEMS accelerometers, you get unparalleled reliability and stability throughout the speed calculated by the microcomputer. Can be installed without machining it comes with a separate bolt-on car · coupler only. No. · BNR32 # 81010 No. · BCNR33 # 81011 No. · BNR34 # 81012 Each price ¥ 42,000 (¥ 40,000 tax)


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Wow thanks for spotting this!

Looks like though this is a pre-order thing though. Not sure how quickly you'd get the part even if you ordered today.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Interesting!

I wonder if you can still install a 4x4 controller on too?


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Ooooooow!!
: thumbsup:
Bob


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Well looks like all pre-orders were sold out... yesterday... arghh...


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

Don't you all think that Nissan would have not mass produced a car with the ATTESA system if they thought the OEM Sensors were not up to the job? 

There is no point having a component perform 30x quicker if the rest of the system requires even more time than the factory G-sensor to respond.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

I think the point is, at the time, those G-sensors (oil based? is that true?) were the best available (cost and production-wise).

Now, digital G-sensors are easy and cheap... so for those suffering from malfunctioning old original G-sensors, this is a smart upgrade - better to have one component react faster than the original after all.

But true, IF the rest of the ATTESSA can't keep up with the faster signals, then there IS no point.


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## Satansbodyguard (Oct 29, 2007)

akasakaR33 said:


> I think the point is, at the time, those G-sensors (oil based? is that true?) were the best available (cost and production-wise).
> 
> Now, digital G-sensors are easy and cheap... so for those suffering from malfunctioning old original G-sensors, this is a smart upgrade - better to have one component react faster than the original after all.
> 
> But true, IF the rest of the ATTESSA can't keep up with the faster signals, then there IS no point.


would it work better hooked up to this bit of kit ???

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/150416-upgraded-programable-faster-attessa-ecu.html



Nigel :thumbsup:


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Nah I think that has a built in g sensor so it would be superfluous?


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## Kenneth-A (Nov 15, 2011)

Sidious said:


> Don't you all think that Nissan would have not mass produced a car with the ATTESA system if they thought the OEM Sensors were not up to the job?
> 
> There is no point having a component perform 30x quicker if the rest of the system requires even more time than the factory G-sensor to respond.


Well after reading the thread on the new attesa ecu being developed, it seems most of the lag (on the r32 at least) on the system is due to the pump being allowed to drop to a lower than desirable pressure and then having to build pressure again when it tries to transfer to front wheels.

That said I know nothing of how the sensors work so whether or not it would provide a tangible gain remains to be seen.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Satansbodyguard said:


> would it work better hooked up to this bit of kit ???
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/150416-upgraded-programable-faster-attessa-ecu.html
> 
> ...


It remains to be seen, Hopefully the unit Geoff at Full-Race is helping to develop doesn't use the factory G-Sensor.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Sidious said:


> Don't you all think that Nissan would have not mass produced a car with the ATTESA system if they thought the OEM Sensors were not up to the job?
> 
> There is no point having a component perform 30x quicker if the rest of the system requires even more time than the factory G-sensor to respond.


I think that is pretty naive to think that Nissan would have technology from the future when they designed the GT-R in the 80's....

....What did your home PC look like in the 80's:chairshot


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

The old G-meters works at the speed of light. 
Soo, how much faster is the 'new' one?

Bull shlt baffles brains..


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Combat could you tell us how the old G-sensor works? From reading the Japanese, Do-Luck is saying that the old ones are analog (some kind of internal oil base?) and hence I would think that anything digital would be faster.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Check this out boys and girls.

The Do-luck one cost 42,000 yen. Now, Midori-Seibi has one (appears identical) for 42,000 yen... OR you can pay 58,000 for the "Midori Tune" version, LOL.

MIDORI?Digital?G?Sensor????????? - ???????? | GT-R?????? ???????


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

Would really be interesting to hear if such a digital g-sensor is really usefull...

...especially when keeping the standard slow ATTESA Ecu in case of a R32 GTR or would it be better to look out for a R32 V-spec one :nervous:

Cheers,

Leo


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Austrian GTR said:


> Would really be interesting to hear if such a digital g-sensor is really usefull...
> 
> ...especially when keeping the standard slow ATTESA Ecu in case of a R32 GTR or would it be better to look out for a R32 V-spec one :nervous:
> 
> ...


Leo, I wasn't aware that there was a difference between the ATTESSA ECU's between a std R32 and V-spec R32... I know they are different for the R33s and R34s though.

The only difference between the Midori "tune" and the Do-Luck tune is the following. Tell me if it makes sense. I'm inclined to agree with those saying "baloney" on this one.

#4 line in Japanese:

My rough translation:
The Midori Digital G sensor has been tuned so its special calculated output so that the ATTESSA-ETS can agressively perform. You will experience 4WD driving as you never have before in your GTR on circuits as well as of course the street.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

akasakaR33 said:


> Leo, I wasn't aware that there was a difference between the ATTESSA ECU's between a std R32 and V-spec R32... I know they are different for the R33s and R34s though.


V-Spec R32's had R33 running gear and the attessa comp


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

I always thought it was just the ECU's getting faster an therefore a faster reacting 4
WD system (in case of R32)...

...R32 has ETS, R32 V-spec a retuned (faster ECU) ETS, R33 ETS with pro option (A-LSD), R33-Vspec ETS-pro and all R34's ETS-pro faster with better wheel speed sensors...

...please correct me if I'm wrong :nervous:

As far as I understand it's mainly up to the ECU, cause what's the use of a better and faster speed sensor, when the ECU is not capable of handling the data that fast, or am I missing something???

Would be really interesting to have some back to back tests of the new digital sensor compared to our old ones 

Aki, you don't fancy to give it a try 

Cheers,

Leo


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## godzirra (Sep 16, 2009)

I will wait for this:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/150416-upgraded-programable-faster-attessa-ecu.html


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Nissan Skyline GT-R - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well guys I guess you learn something every day. Although I will check Japanese sources later (ie call Nissan). (So Leo - only error is that the R33 and R34 std cars are non ETS-PRO, while the V-Specs are ETS-PRO).

As for my point about the Midori G-sensor, I am skeptical about the claim they are making - how can a G-sensor - essentially a variable switch - be "tuned" so that the ATTESSA works more aggressively? Does the switch operate faster? I mean I can understand the difference between analog and digital, which I believe is the point of the Do-Luck device, but not so sure that you can "tune" a digital device unless maybe what Midori is saying is that the signals are amplified or something....

Anyway, yes, waiting for the upgraded ECU is probably the smarter thing to do... if you CAN wait.


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Sounds like bullshit to me

If the rest of the system is set up for the older G sensors then I can't see how these would help at all


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## kannibal (Oct 1, 2010)

akasakaR33 said:


> Nissan Skyline GT-R - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Well guys I guess you learn something every day. Although I will check Japanese sources later (ie call Nissan). (So Leo - only error is that the R33 and R34 std cars are non ETS-PRO, while the V-Specs are ETS-PRO).
> 
> ...



maybe they had the opportunity to add an offset to the signal and so to have some front power even in the corner (nothing in original).
and so light understeer.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

kannibal said:


> maybe they had the opportunity to add an offset to the signal and so to have some front power even in the corner (nothing in original).
> and so light understeer.


That can't be done with G-sensors alone. You need the Skylab TSC for that. LOL


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## Kenneth-A (Nov 15, 2011)

Of course it can be done via the sensor alone. It wouldn't be hard with a digital sensor to offset the signal the sensor relays to the ecu.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Kenneth-A said:


> Of course it can be done via the sensor alone. It wouldn't be hard with a digital sensor to offset the signal the sensor relays to the ecu.


Crack on then.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Bring this back to life. At the price they are selling these, they are about 1/2 the cost the last time I priced an OEM G-Sensor.

Anyone ever cracked open a OEM G-Sensor? I am interested to see how it looks inside. Might have some answers.


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm interested in a faster system aswell, so if anyone could try it 

Although i first need some proper tires to really get an idea of the stock system though.


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## narface (Apr 9, 2010)

There's an article in Vol. 103 March 2012 of GT-R Magazine that reviews this new digital G-sensor.

I'm not too good at translating, but I'll give it a try after I finish reading it.


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

Aki maybe ?


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Wouter said:


> Aki maybe ?


hold on, let me take a look....


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Ok, I read it. Let me summarize (this weekend I will do a full translation and post on my blog), but it's almost midnight here in Japan.

Page 36-37, Vol 103 GT-R Magazine as narface posted.

The article features Midori Seibi, Mr. Uchinaga, and his BNR32 demo car, which was driven at Fuji Speedway with the standard part, with the basic version (same as the Do-Luck version), and then the Midori Seibi version.

Uchinaga-san claims that the impetus for developing this part was as a cheap replacement for the Nissan part, which costs 154,000 yen for the BNR32. He also claims that although they originally used ATTESSA controllers to try to control the drivetrain distribution, it was frankly not very effective. When he wondered why, he realized that the G-sensors which measure acceleration and deceleration had, due to age, deteriorated and were not giving accurate signals.

The stock G-sensors are analog, response speed is slow, the area over which it can measure G is narrow, and further when the spring inside deteriorates it keeps swaying and as a result the output signal "hunts" which then manifests itself in the drivetrain output. When this happens in a corner, you cannot really accelerate, resulting in time loss.

With the digital version, as the time for the signal to get to the ECU is very short = response speed is very fast, which means the proper amount of torque is transmitted to the front. So, you always have the ideal power distribution.

The article then explains the difference between the normal digital G sensor and the Midori version: the normal gives a linear response to accelerator input, while the Midori version has software designed to aggressively activate the ATTESSA.

The car used was the Midori demo car BNR32. Result was simply huge. Just starting acceleration, just a little gas and the torque meter needle responds quickly. Torque going to the front very quickly, without a change in car posture, giving the best condition for acceleration.

In cornering, with weight on the outside wheels, power application is neutral and stable. controllability of the car is much more subtlle, requring only light application or de-application of the gas. 

The article claims, "to exaggerate a bit, the R32 has become a Lancer Evo." 

In a sidebar, the racing driver who drove the test car commented that "with the G-sensor fitted, undesirable movements were eliminated, and the car (r32) was like a BNR34 in that its movements were very tractable. 

He also remarked that, with the normal g-sensor, when braking into a corner the ABS would interfere, requiring one to quickly come off the brakes, but after replacement one could step on the brakes and have the ABS activated until the corner apex - it really feels life you could stop with all 4 wheels.

Again, will do a proper translation this weekend, and I will post my blog link up then.

Aki


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Images of what the standard unit looks like.
































































The other 2 wells are the same.


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## Fuel Performance (Aug 31, 2010)

Very Interesting !!


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## hpt_simon (May 20, 2006)

uhh. 

looks interesting, 
anyone also hear any news about the sensor full race and the guys donw under are testing, think its the hioctane guys, some sort of new controler using just the stock pumps, something like the motec controler for the evos.


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

akasakaR33 said:


> Ok, I read it. Let me summarize (this weekend I will do a full translation and post on my blog), but it's almost midnight here in Japan.
> 
> Page 36-37, Vol 103 GT-R Magazine as narface posted.
> 
> ...


Awesome write up Aki, thanks :clap:

Looking forward for the full details on your blog mate :thumbsup:

BTW does it also mention if the new sensor also activates the 4WD whilst cornering???

Or is it just like the standard G-Sensor which only activates 4WD in a straight, so whilst conering it's only RWD (except you use a Skylab controller, right R32 Combat :nervous???

Cheers,

Leo


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

akasakaR33 said:


> The stock G-sensors are analog, response speed is slow, the area over which it can measure G is narrow, and further when the spring inside deteriorates it keeps swaying and as a result the output signal "hunts" which then manifests itself in the drivetrain output. When this happens in a corner, you cannot really accelerate, resulting in time loss.


First off - R32 Combat, thanks for those pictures. All these years dealing with the cars, I have never thought to open up one of the G-sensors. At $1000- $1500 I never really had much desire. 

I can see why they put those impact indicators on the side. If you dropped it, you could possibly bend the spring in the sensor. This would throw all the readings off. Although I have seen a lot of cars with the red indicator lit up. 

The digital sensor makes perfect sense. They are not saying that the ATTESA system will be 30 times faster, they are saying that the output from that sensor will be much faster. Its not as slow as the old pit and pendulum in the OEM G-sensor.

However, anyone really looking at this, and talking about it should understand how the ATTESA system works, and why it works. How it actually takes power away from the front wheels under high g loads. 

I have the first 5 pages of a 17 page document on the ATTESA system up in this post - Nissan Skyline GT-R s in the USA Blog: ATTESA Information


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

Cool, getting really interested in them! Leo, I'll drop you a line about them tomorrow


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

You can replicate the nissan system very easily, with improvement is required.

Who wants a project?


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Leo I don't recall the article saying anything about the new digital sensor "activating" anything. Remember all it does in put a faster, cleaner and more accurate signal to the Attessa ECU.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

akasakaR33 said:


> Leo I don't recall the article saying anything about the new digital sensor "activating" anything. Remember all it does in put a faster, cleaner and more accurate signal to the Attessa ECU.


A spring is always going to spring back, so I can see it swinging and throwing some interesting info at the ATTESA ECU. An ECU is only as good as its inputs. If you give it bad inputs, it gives bad outputs.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Does the R34 still have one of these "Antique" G-Sensors?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Sub Boy said:


> Does the R34 still have one of these "Antique" G-Sensors?


Yes it does. We had a big pink box, protecting our g - sensor, in the N1.










R32- R33 - R34 more the same than different.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm still hanging out for the Full-Race one, it will be adjustable.

p.s......nice pink box


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Austrian GTR said:


> Awesome write up Aki, thanks :clap:
> 
> Looking forward for the full details on your blog mate :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Afaik 4wd still happens in corners just the more the g the less the 4wd. The skylab box alters the output of the g meter so the ATTESA system thinks that the corner isn't as tight as it really is (less g reading).

The normal version of this sensor just provides a cleaner signal to the ATTESA so it can do it's stuff earlier (perhaps) and more consistently. The Midori version sounds like it has circuitry to attenuate the signal (perhaps) like the skylab and thus actually change when and how much 4wd is provided.

I can see that the normal version and a skylab might be a nice combo. On the other hand it might well only be worth while if you g sensor is a little knackered. I'm sure that the test car will have had a crappy sensor to site how much better the new one is.

NB those in the know please correct me if I'm off the mark on the above.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Cris, as you say all the comparisons I've heard have been BNR32 standard vs. this new part. So who knows what the difference would be with a R34 or R33?

And, as I've installed the normal version in my car (Do-Luck), I would say that while the torque meter needle doesn't move as much - to be precise rather than as before, where the needle would shoot up and then settle down it just creeps up now steadily - in normal driving I don't notice a difference.

If this G-sensor is supposed to help out on braking, then would using the skylab affect that capability in cornering? If so (in the scenario you suggest), then would not the braking come on too strong for the corner that the ECU thinks is gradual, but is really tight?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I am building a test rig for the g-meter so I can run a comparison between the standard unit and my new design to see whats what.

Tyndago, can you get me a copy of all 17 pages of your ETS manual?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

R32 Combat said:


> Tyndago, can you get me a copy of all 17 pages of your ETS manual?


Sure thing, just sent you a PM for your email. I also have some info on how the Super Taikyu R34's were rewired. Its an interesting setup. They have wet/dry ABS, and 4 positions of torque split to the front. The most interesting thing they do is lock out the Hicas, and use the Yaw rate sensor as an input into the ATTESA ECU.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

tyndago said:


> Sure thing, just sent you a PM for your email. I also have some info on how the Super Taikyu R34's were rewired. Its an interesting setup. They have wet/dry ABS, and 4 positions of torque split to the front. The most interesting thing they do is lock out the Hicas, and use the Yaw rate sensor as an input into the ATTESA ECU.


PM'd ya..


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## DanVspec (Mar 5, 2007)

How useful could this be on a vspec, as far as I understand its just the wheel speed sensors sampling faster on ATTESSA-Pro, maybe this could be further improved by the digital signal


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

R32 Combat said:


> PM'd ya..


You should have all those papers. Let me know if you are missing anything.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

tyndago said:


> You should have all those papers. Let me know if you miss anything.


Nothing yet.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

akasakaR33 said:


> And, as I've installed the normal version in my car (Do-Luck), I would say that while the torque meter needle doesn't move as much - to be precise rather than as before, where the needle would shoot up and then settle down it just creeps up now steadily - in normal driving I don't notice a difference.


Don't read too much into the torque meter. Its just a calculated value, not really hooked to anything mechanical.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

tyndago said:


> Don't read too much into the torque meter. Its just a calculated value, not really hooked to anything mechanical.


Ok, sure understand that, but then why the difference? What would it be a reflection of? What does it measure, actually?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

akasakaR33 said:


> Ok, sure understand that, but then why the difference? What would it be a reflection of? What does it measure, actually?


Not sure why its different, but its probably a good thing. 

It doesn't measure anything. Its an output from the ATTESA ECU. Its probably some range based on voltage/pressure commanded to the ATTESA pump. 

You can have a mechanical issue with the clutch pack in the transfer case, the meter pegged at 50 and not getting any torque to the front wheels.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Sub Boy said:


> I'm still hanging out for the Full-Race one, it will be adjustable.
> 
> p.s......nice pink box


Adjustable has been around for years...


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I know adjustable ones have been around for ages....I have a Ruzic one myself, but no one has made an adjustable digital g-sensor yet.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Sub Boy said:


> I know adjustable ones have been around for ages....I have a Ruzic one myself, but no one has made an adjustable digital g-sensor yet.


The bottom pic is of the Super Taikyu R34. That had a Nismo adjustable ATTESA ECU. ABS and All wheel drive were adjustable. It also used the yaw rate sensor from the Hicas as an input to the ATTESA ECU.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

tyndago said:


> The bottom pic is of the Super Taikyu R34. That had a Nismo adjustable ATTESA ECU. ABS and All wheel drive were adjustable. It also used the yaw rate sensor from the Hicas as an input to the ATTESA ECU.


Now that sounds good.....have you looked at replicating it?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Sub Boy said:


> Now that sounds good.....have you looked at replicating it?


Never did. They were special "leased" Nismo items. I never really though about opening it up, but I sent R32 Combat the wiring diagram of what Nismo did on the outside. 

Just talking about this now, made me think a little more about how it might be able to be copied.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Ok guys here is the scan and translation.
One Man's Lonely Adventure In His R33 GT-R: Select GT-R Magazine Articles

Any errors in translation are mine, apologies in advance. Please let me know by PM or by posting here if there are any questions.


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

akasakaR33 said:


> Ok guys here is the scan and translation.
> One Man's Lonely Adventure In His R33 GT-R: Select GT-R Magazine Articles
> 
> Any errors in translation are mine, apologies in advance. Please let me know by PM or by posting here if there are any questions.


:bowdown1:
Awesome!!!! Thanks for taking the time to translate that too buddy!
:thumbsup:
Bob


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

akasakaR33 said:


> If this G-sensor is supposed to help out on braking, then would using the skylab affect that capability in cornering? If so (in the scenario you suggest), then would not the braking come on too strong for the corner that the ECU thinks is gradual, but is really tight?


The Skylab does not affect the braking or ABS function.


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

thanks Aki for the translation, as i understood the r34 doesnt have so much problem, we should wait a bit with these new electronics so can be tested and finished to the best.


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## narface (Apr 9, 2010)

Thank you, Aki, for the detailed translation.

I'm very interested in getting a digital G sensor. Like what the article described, long corners seem to be a problem for the R32. The car doesn't settle as the worn out springs on the analogue G sensor 'bounces' back and forth, making the car jerk ever so slightly all the way through the corner. To stop the twitching, I let off the gas pedal a bit, but that obviously slows me down mid corner. I really hope the digital G sensor will solve this issue.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

DrGtr said:


> thanks Aki for the translation, as i understood the r34 doesnt have so much problem, we should wait a bit with these new electronics so can be tested and finished to the best.


Hey guys, you're welcome!

The R34 would not have so much of a problem, because all of the parts are NEWER. That is why the test was done an older car - R32- because you can see the biggest difference that way. 

As R34s get older too, then yes I think a digital solution would be good. But as you point out, with others coming to market soon, might be good to wait it out and see what happens.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Well done Aki! 
I know it's always tricky to swap languages.....but is there a better understanding on the difference between the Standard and the Midori model?
Are these available for sale yet?


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

akasakaR33 said:


> Ok guys here is the scan and translation.
> One Man's Lonely Adventure In His R33 GT-R: Select GT-R Magazine Articles
> 
> Any errors in translation are mine, apologies in advance. Please let me know by PM or by posting here if there are any questions.


Top notch Aki, thanks :clap:

Cheers,

Leo


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

Midori digital g sensors are now available via myself

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/161352-world-first-midori-digital-g-sensor-all-gtr-types.html#post1580451


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Ooohhhh....Midori....yummy.

LOL.

Very interested to see how these fare in real world tests. Might be worth a punt!!

TT


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

What are people's thoughts on if you could still run an adjustable controller ( like my Ruzic 4x4 controller) with the digital G-Sensor?


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

Sub Boy said:


> What are people's thoughts on if you could still run an adjustable controller ( like my Ruzic 4x4 controller) with the digital G-Sensor?


I reckon for it to be compatible with the ATTESA computer, it would have to give the same type of signal, and therefore that signal could be modified in the same way.
That said, I would try it without the signal bender to see what it drives like first.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Sub Boy said:


> Well done Aki!
> I know it's always tricky to swap languages.....but is there a better understanding on the difference between the Standard and the Midori model?
> Are these available for sale yet?


Thanks!

Yes, here in Japan they are on sale.

Not sure how else to explain the difference other than what was said... being able to "aggressively" activate the ATTESA to me sounds like, as opposed to a linear relationship, this curve would be more exponential?

In any case, I think Miguel said he was going to talk to Midori and find out for sure? Miguel?

Aki 

BTW - if anyone (and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, just saying...) thinks for a second that I will now translate anything out there in Japanese.... sorry people, my rule is only if it is a topic of interest to me....thanks for understanding.


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Aki, you've covered it very well already, but we're asking Midori if there's anything else to add... if there is, we'll post here.
Their products and workmanship on cars are first class, so I'm sure a lot of painstaking research & development went into these new Midori digital G sensors well before they finally went on sale.


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

this thread is what the forum is all about. very interesting and informative.

i have the HKS grid dancer... and stock g sensor. i too would like to know if the new digital sensor would be compatible

also, does anyone have any feedback about the HKS grid dancer as i have never used one before?


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## JTJUDGE (Nov 21, 2011)

so this effectivly speeds up the reaction time of the 4wd system? making it more like the modern evos etc?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

nick the tubman said:


> this thread is what the forum is all about. very interesting and informative.
> 
> i have the HKS grid dancer... and stock g sensor. i too would like to know if the new digital sensor would be compatible
> 
> also, does anyone have any feedback about the HKS grid dancer as i have never used one before?


HKS has an ETC.

Grid is another company that sells what they call a Dancer.
http://www.kotec.info/tsd2_en.html

Both are ATTESA controllers. I have installed most of the available ATTESA controllers on the market. Some bypass the ATTESA system, some alter the outputs from the G-Sensor.


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

yes, my bad. that was what i was told. 
it is a HKS Electronic Torque Split Controller.
i assume it does the same thing as the Skylab unit, only offers more "control".?

and the Q still stands, will the new G Sensor be compatible?


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

Yes, any torque split controller will be compatible as it is only the sensor that is updated by fitting these midori units.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

lightspeed said:


> Yes, any torque split controller will be compatible as it is only the sensor that is updated by fitting these midori units.


True, but it's not required for the standalone controllers.


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

really? why is that mate?

i assume it "takes over" from the g sensor then and makes it a permanent "setting" until you alter it again?

i was under the impression if the g sensor was damaged or removed, the Attessa would stop working completely?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

The Grid Dancer does not use the G-Sensor, thus replacing it has no effect.

I think all the rest use them.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

R32 Combat said:


> The Grid Dancer does not use the G-Sensor, thus replacing it has no effect.
> 
> I think all the rest use them.


The HKS ETC doesn't use it either.


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## nanook (Mar 19, 2012)

Sub Boy said:


> I'm still hanging out for the Full-Race one, it will be adjustable.
> 
> p.s......nice pink box



There was a thread on a new Programable ATESSA ECU but i can't find it

is there any update if anyone knows


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

nanook said:


> There was a thread on a new Programable ATESSA ECU but i can't find it
> 
> is there any update if anyone knows


It was banned:banned: by the Mod's on here, they thought it was advertising Full-Race.

If I hear anymore from Geoff on it, I will post it up.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Sub Boy said:


> It was banned:banned: by the Mod's on here, they thought it was advertising Full-Race.
> 
> If I hear anymore from Geoff on it, I will post it up.


They are in the middle of the Modified Magazine shootout with their R14. They will be busy over the next few days.


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## narface (Apr 9, 2010)

I finally bought a Do-Luck Digital G-sensor! But before I install it, I want to do a few more runs in different driving conditions/scenarios with the old G-sensor for a fair comparison. I'll post my before/after thoughts in a later date.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Sub Boy said:


> It was banned:banned: by the Mod's on here, they thought it was advertising Full-Race.
> 
> If I hear anymore from Geoff on it, I will post it up.


We did pm Geoff but didn't get a response. As midori sell them through our traders we need to unsure there is an even playing field. 

If Geoff wants to sell them through the forum we can come to an arrangement although I think another member on here has something up his sleeve

Mook


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Mookistar said:


> We did pm Geoff but didn't get a response. As midori sell them through our traders we need to unsure there is an even playing field.
> 
> If Geoff wants to sell them through the forum we can come to an arrangement although I think another member on here has something up his sleeve
> 
> Mook


Well considering they are still in a development stage, and no real price has been set....and they are nothing like the Midori unit, I'm at a loss as to why the thread was pulled:nervous:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Because we pmd Geoff and didn't get a response. He is a business afterall and we need to make sure the rules are being followed. There were people "putting Thier names down" for the units on the thread. Perhaps give Geoff a nudge to contact us about ways of selling through the forum. 

Mook


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Ok. I've just been told that he pmd Toni whilst she was away from the forum. I will speak with Geoff myself and work out a plan


Mook


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Thats a reasonable outcome....

Its sad when folks (either private individuals or traders) develop new parts for our cars but are unable to show them and enter discussion due to 'trader rules' I agree the forum needs rules for traders plying their trade but in this particular instance IIRC Geoff was not the one *offering* the part for sale. It was other folks who were offering to 'sign up'. I dont think you can blame Geoff for that. The thread itself was more a discussion of new ideas and in no way was a sales pitch.

Glad its getting sorted out.

TT


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Ive unlocked the thread. If we can keep to an R&D level that would be appreciated.

mook


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## narface (Apr 9, 2010)

*A review on the Do-Luck Digital G-Sensor*
Car: BNR32 (standard)

Installation:
Extremely easy and straightforward. The instructions that came with the package was clear and easy to understand. It's basically plug and play.

I removed the centre console, unplugged the old unit, took out the analogue G-sensor, separated the analogue G-sensor from the base, cleaned the base for a good attachment of the new unit.

The Do-Luck Digital G-sensor pack comes with a square piece of double sided tape and two tie-wraps/zip-ties. The double sided tape is actually a piece of gum that is sticky on both sides, and not the conventional foam in the middle with tape on both sides. The gum type double sided tape should work better as the top of the transmission tunnel does get quite hot when the car is running. Together with the two zip-ties, the unit is very secure. I then screw down the base plate to the chassis and put the centre console back on.

Test run:
I did not test at a track. I didn't even have to, because the results could be seen just from normal street driving.

Obviously, mild mannered driving will not activate anything. The car will remain in rear wheel drive. However, just being slightly spirited during acceleration, less than 10% of torque is transferred to the front wheels. With each upshift, the amount of torque transferred increases on the reapplication of throttle before settling down again. All this happened and I wasn't even flooring it!

On the highway, with speeds over 100km/h, there was a small percentage of torque being transferred to the front wheels. The percentage changed when I give it a short burst of acceleration for overtaking. At slightly higher speeds, the amount of torque being transferred to the front wheels constantly adjusts to every crest and undulation on the road.

A few things can be seen from my short test drive. During acceleration, the ATTESA-ETS reacts much quicker. On the highway, the response of the digital G-sensor is amazingly fast, constantly adjusting torque to stabilise the car. I can conclude the Do-Luck Digital G-sensor is able to make better use of the ATTESA-ETS, bringing out the potential of this system.

In the future, I will take the car out on winding roads to see the affects of the digital G-sensor on HICAS.

I'm extremely satisfied with the results so far.


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## neilo (Nov 17, 2004)

Very interesting thread, does anyone know if the new digital g sensors can be controlled via stand alone ecu's [not attesa controlled] ?


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## MountainRunner (Sep 9, 2005)

Hi, Paul Ruzic here (I designed and built the Ruzic Engineering 4WD Controller). First thanks to all the guys who have posted about it and its performance over the years. I have been overwhelmed by the amount of great feedback I have had for the unit.

I am literally only a couple of weeks away from releasing the Series II unit. I have 10 assembled and ready to go pending a few final tests I am running. If you can be patient I will start a new thread with a full write up on the unit very soon.

On G sensors, Modern G sensors are MEMS devices which are Micro Elecro Mechanical Systems. Check out google for a good descirption of some of the available products.

These are not hugely expesive and I am now looking at making a replacement for the factory units (which are hugely expensive  ) For the digital accelerometers to be tuned for a specific application they would have a fixed tune in the unit, "Street", "Performance", "Race" type stuff. The most flexible solution is to use a programmable unit such as mine to setup the awd system as you want it, for the application you are using (track, street, wet etc). Having fixed configurations does make sense as the customer cannot get it wrong, believe me if you setup the controller incorrectly for an application you can make the car handle a lot worse than factory. (this often happens when guys try and setup the car to handle like a wrx / evo. The GTR is designed differently and trying to apply those principals does not work.)


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Hi Paul - even though I posted about the Do-Luck/Midori digital G-sensors, I am keenly interested in your product.

Will wait with bated breath!!

Aki


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

I'm currently developing a replacement unit for the old G-meters. There will be some enhancements obviously, but it will retain some essential Nissan electical features.

I have built and tested one with great effect. It's a cost thing really. How cheap can I make them.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

MountainRunner said:


> Hi, Paul Ruzic here (I designed and built the Ruzic Engineering 4WD Controller). First thanks to all the guys who have posted about it and its performance over the years. I have been overwhelmed by the amount of great feedback I have had for the unit.
> 
> I am literally only a couple of weeks away from releasing the Series II unit. I have 10 assembled and ready to go pending a few final tests I am running. If you can be patient I will start a new thread with a full write up on the unit very soon.
> 
> ...


Hi Paul,
I have one of your first generation units in my car, It does work awesomely....But I will be great with the upgraded G-Sensor.
Will the old unit be "Upgradable" to the new spec, or is it completely different?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Full race are now an authorised seller on the forum and when Geoff gets back from wedding he will launch the ETS-pro

Mook


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## neilo (Nov 17, 2004)

R32 Combat and MountainRunner could you reccommend a very fast working G sensor that i could control using my Life racing F92 stand alone ecu?

Cheers
Neil


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## MountainRunner (Sep 9, 2005)

Hey Sub Boy, thanks for the feedback. Those version I controllers work really well. The controller takes the factory G force sensor signal and produces a new control signal for the factory ATTESA. The Nissan guys did a fantastic job designing the original system with thousands of track laps put down in its development.

My controllers MPU generates the control output based on the setup. It is a fully generated signal, you could play music with it if you had the correct input 

You find when you increase the power in a GTR that the factory system can no longer catch the rear end before it steps out, and instead of powering out of a corner you have an oversteer power slide. The controller takes the G force signal and remaps it onto a more responsive curve which you tune to match your cars power delivery and suspension setup. The 5 maps in the system allow you to select one that best matches the modifications you have made and the track your are currently racng on.

Using the + / - settings of the selected maps you can litterally change the way the rear of the car steps out on corner exit. In fact we once did a test in an industrial park on a big round about and by changing the setting you could change the angle of the car as you circled the track.

The version 1 unit has a switch that the driver can flick while racing, allowing two setups to be selected. You could have one for the big sweepers and another for the switchbacks and hair pins etc.

I agree with how those new G sensors can make the car more responsive. The ones in the car can be up to 20 years old (my GTR 1992). I am next looking into a replacement design that will complement the controller. 

The version 2 has some new features specifially for track work that I think you guys will love and is unmatched with any other system available.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

MountainRunner said:


> Hey Sub Boy, thanks for the feedback. Those version I controllers work really well. The controller takes the factory G force sensor signal and produces a new control signal for the factory ATTESA. The Nissan guys did a fantastic job designing the original system with thousands of track laps put down in its development.
> 
> My controllers MPU generates the control output based on the setup. It is a fully generated signal, you could play music with it if you had the correct input
> 
> ...


VERY interested in the V2 unit combined with a replacement G-sensor that you mention. Could you give a very rough ballpark figure cost-wise and an indication of when both would be available??

TT


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## neilo (Nov 17, 2004)

I found this company that sells G sensors for the motorsport industry, what do you G Sensor guru's think?

Sensocon:: MEMS multiaxial


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/164316-e...plit-controller-r32-r33-r34-skyline-gt-r.html


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## narface (Apr 9, 2010)

It seems like Do-Luck has developed yet another more aggressive Digital G-Sensor called the Tarzan G-Box!

The test driver is Yamada Eiji, aka Tarzan. Famous for time attacks and has helped many tuning companies fine tune their products.

The Tarzan G-Box is almost 50% more expensive over the regular Digital G-Sensor. Can fiddling with the programming of a sensor really make that much difference?

Here's what Do-Luck has to say about the Tarzan G-Box:


> Tarzan Yamada applies his knowledge and experience to produce a new G-Sensor that improves 4WD performance under any condition!
> 
> The "G Box" is connected to replace the stock G-sensor and responds multiple times faster to control the 4WD system (ACD/AYC/ET-S etc.) Parameters such as Front/Rear & Left/Right torque distribution; duration and timing have all been refined by Tarzan himself over multiple test sessions in many different cars of varying specification.
> 
> ...


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I've seen that guy drive....No way will a G-Sensor tuned by him be any good for a lame driver like me! haha!

I still don't like the idea of it being permanently set, I like the idea more of the ETS-Pro with some adjustablity and replacement of the Attessa computer with something a bit more modern.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

I have my suspicions that this Tarzan box is the same as the Midori-Spec G-sensor (their more expensive model).


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

It is not the same as the midori spec, but the idea is the same. 

The Tarzan G-box comes with the settings as Tarzan prefers the cars to handle.

I will receive my Tarzan G-box this week and because it's basically plug and play, i'm willing to allow people to test mine in their car during Spa Francorchamps next week.

If anyone is interested, please send me a pm


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Wouter - while I can't make it out to Spa next week (the Learjet is being repaired), I would be curious to see what your impressions are on the unit, for driving on the Street. (I'm sure it's great on the circuit).

I have heard reports that the midori spec unit is a bit too aggressive for street driving...

Thanks

Aki


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

Sure, no problem. I will do a write up and will try to do a movie if possible of the torque split gauge on the dashboard to show response.

Btw, you have a message on Facebook


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

Wouter said:


> Sure, no problem. I will do a write up and will try to do a movie if possible of the torque split gauge on the dashboard to show response.
> 
> Btw, you have a message on Facebook


Hey Wouter,

That would be awesome mate :clap: (I'm curious too )

I tested my Midori spec on track and there it was great, but for street driving it's a bit harsh imho...

...on the other hand I'm still running the damn FK452 so perhaps it might get better once I got the AD08's fitted 

Cheers,

Leo


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## DUTCHD (Oct 27, 2010)

What u mean with bit harsh:?


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

Aggressive probably.

I'm running BF Goodridge G-Force kt/a (or something haha) which almost feel like Semi slicks. 265/35/18 i believe. 

Will you be at Spa Leo?


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## MountainRunner (Sep 9, 2005)

Sorry I have not got info to you guys yet. I have written a comprehensive document on the controller and ATESSA etc. It will be ready very shortly. Thanks for your patience.

I think the best option is tunable ATESSA as it can be set to meet the current situation. Thanks for your patience on me getting this sorted  A little more time is all I need !


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

*I was completely wrong!*



akasakaR33 said:


> I have my suspicions that this Tarzan box is the same as the Midori-Spec G-sensor (their more expensive model).


So I met with Tarzan himself today. And Ito-san from Do-Luck. To do some driving/testing at Honjo Circuit. I'll do a full write up later, with photos (probably on my blog), but I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE DIFFERENCE the Tarzan box made on my car! (and, yes, there is a difference between the Midori Spec and the Tarzan unit).

BTW - yes, it DOES work in conjunction/is compatible with the various ATTESA controllers out there on the market (including of course the SKYLAB TSC).


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## narface (Apr 9, 2010)

Aki: Can't wait to read your full write up + photos!
You're very lucky to be able to meet up with the developers of the various digital G-sensors and be able to test them out!! 

With the faster G-sensor, Midori found the transfer case was the next weak link. Midori now has an upgraded transfer case which features more friction discs to reduce the lag when torque is being transferred to the front axles.


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

The G-sensor is not the only input to the ATTESA... do the other inputs have a significant effect on the operation?


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

akasakaR33 said:


> So I met with Tarzan himself today. And Ito-san from Do-Luck. To do some driving/testing at Honjo Circuit. I'll do a full write up later, with photos (probably on my blog), but I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE DIFFERENCE the Tarzan box made on my car! (and, yes, there is a difference between the Midori Spec and the Tarzan unit).
> 
> BTW - yes, it DOES work in conjunction/is compatible with the various ATTESA controllers out there on the market (including of course the SKYLAB TSC).


That's awesome Aki! Looking forward to hear what you found out :clap:

Have you also tried the Midori spec sensor in comparison???




narface said:


> Midori now has an upgraded transfer case which features more friction discs to reduce the lag when torque is being transferred to the front axles.



Great find mate :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Leo


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

There are a number of other inputs. The g-sensors kind of help the attesa predict then the car might loose grip. The wheelspeed sensors are reactive. If the attesa trys to match front and rear wheelspeed should a difference over a preset valve be detected.
The rpm and tps are used to adjust the torque split under engine braking.
Another note while i am posting. The attesa required an analogue input from the g-sensors. All g-sensors are analogue, thats the way they work.


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## neilo (Nov 17, 2004)

Austrian GTR said:


> That's awesome Aki! Looking forward to hear what you found out :clap:
> 
> Have you also tried the Midori spec sensor in comparison???
> 
> ...


Don't know if you have seen our clutch pack Leo they work great and are being used on many race cars under extreme conditions.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/161207-n01-new-tranfer-box-race-clutch-pack.html

Cheers
Neil


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

neilo said:


> Don't know if you have seen our clutch pack Leo they work great and are being used on many race cars under extreme conditions.
> 
> http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/161207-n01-new-tranfer-box-race-clutch-pack.html
> 
> ...


Cool, thanks for the info Neil :thumbsup:

No I haven't seen this until now 

Is this basically the same as Midori does???

Cheers,

Leo


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## neilo (Nov 17, 2004)

Austrian GTR said:


> Cool, thanks for the info Neil :thumbsup:
> 
> No I haven't seen this until now
> 
> ...


To be honest i haven't seen the midori one, our one has been used for the last 3 seasons with our own 4wd system we control the pump to apply more or less pressure to the clutch pack which gives you more or less 4wd in race conditions the pack is under constant slip as the pack in under constant pressure [ not 50 / 50 ] it has worked faultlessly and repeated performance without fail.

Cheers
Neil


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

neilo said:


> To be honest i haven't seen the midori one, our one has been used for the last 3 seasons with our own 4wd system we control the pump to apply more or less pressure to the clutch pack which gives you more or less 4wd in race conditions the pack is under constant slip as the pack in under constant pressure [ not 50 / 50 ] it has worked faultlessly and repeated performance without fail.
> 
> Cheers
> Neil


Thanks again Neil!

I'll keep that in mind as I'm already thinking about rebuilding the transfercase during next winter 

Cheers,

Leo


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

narface said:


> Aki: Can't wait to read your full write up + photos!
> You're very lucky to be able to meet up with the developers of the various digital G-sensors and be able to test them out!!
> 
> With the faster G-sensor, Midori found the transfer case was the next weak link. Midori now has an upgraded transfer case which features more friction discs to reduce the lag when torque is being transferred to the front axles.


Yeah sorry a bit busy this week - work is killing me - but will post asap. In the meantime, yes this is the same thing that Ito-san from Do-Luck said. You don't have to purchase the Midori transfer case, just rebuild with more plates for less slippage next time you have your transmission out.

All I will say for now is all of these units have been extensively tested on various GT-Rs, R32, R33, and R34, both standard and tuned (with the cooperation of various tuners such as HKS Kansai, ATTKD, etc.) so there has been a LOT of research and development on this. 

And, what Tarzan specifically wanted me to tell everyone is - the Tarzan box is not for racers only - it is designed to be make the cars faster on the track, yes, but also safer and easier to drive in all weather conditions on the street, touge, etc.

There will be those who don't believe me, but if they have not tested these units themselves, then they have no basis to make any negative statements about these devices, even if they THINK they know how it all works.

More later,

Aki


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

Now you're teasing us


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Yes. And wait until I get the video sorted.


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

Good to hear you're so impressed by the Tarzan G-box Aki! 

I hope you had a awesome day  

Really looking foward to read your article.

Wouter


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Well guys, here is Dino's write up:
THE GT-R GETS TARZAN-ED ? Speedhunters


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## bigmikespec (Sep 5, 2008)

So any lap time comparisons?


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

akasakaR33 said:


> Well guys, here is Dino's write up:
> THE GT-R GETS TARZAN-ED ? Speedhunters


:clap:


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

bigmikespec said:


> So any lap time comparisons?


if I'm guessing correctly neither Aki nor Dino have driven at Honjo much, if at all before. It's usually a circuit used by drifters. 

So to put timing gear into the cars would have been misleading, since naturally both car owners would be likely to find increasingly fast lap times as a part of learning the course.
This factor would make timed comparisons inaccurate when comparing G-sensors. 

Judging by Dino's writeup I think it was more an opportunity to FEEL and experience how differently the cars behave.

I wouldn't be surprised if Aki could get access to data where lap times were compared professionally though. I'd imagine they've done a lot of testing at larger circuits under different conditions, etc. but you might need to watch his blog for that...


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

There was no time to strap on timing gear and move it from car to car each time as we were sharing an entry number between 2 cars most of the time.

Like Miguel states it was all to do with the feel, mainly because I expressed my skepticism to Ito-san initially and he invited me to try for myself...which of course is always the best way.

Really looking forward to trying the car out on roads that I know well. I'm heading to a drive event tomorrow in the mountains to drive the TRD version of the Toyota 86 so might take the GT-R down there and have a play after I'm done.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

Miguel - I have in car video of Tarzan driving my car back to back with the standard Do-Luck G-sensor, and then the Tarzan G-box. However, I have not yet reviewed so can't tell you if this would work as a way to measure the time.

Problem was, we never had a clear track, so I don't think accurate times were possible that day. Tarzan DID say that for him, the Tarzan box was probably worth 2 seconds at Honjo though, which is amazing in that average lap times there are in the 45-48 second range I think.

BTW it WAS my first time ever at Honjo so yes on that point. Not sure about Dino though.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

First for me too. I was driving like an idiot trying to induce oversteer most of the time though LOL:thumbsup:


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Even more reason...
Can't really do quantifiable timed laps accurately when there's traffic from other cars on the track.


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Looking forward to seeing Tarzan at work in your GT-R, Aki.


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## black bnr32 (Jan 20, 2011)

just cross posting from the speedhunters article:

Dino, did you get a chance to intentionally oversteer on some corners? does it still feel like a rwd car? how does it feel on tighter, slower turns (such as what you'd see at an autocross event)?


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

For all of you interested in a Tarzan G-Box.

Tarzan will be in Europe together with Shigeru Ito of Do Luck Japan! You have a chance to meet him plus ask anything you want regarding the Tarzan G-Box.

If you want to have a go with Tarzan in your car and a G-Box, just send me a PM and i'll arrange it for you 

Please see; http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/166143-n...et-tarzan-yamada-do-luck-hks.html#post1642014


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## MountainRunner (Sep 9, 2005)

I was at World Time Attack with Mark Berry and his team from Wed lunch time practice. The R32 GTR had AWD problems on the first couple of days. It was very frustrating but ended up being hydraulic issues. Once it was sorted, the car spoke for itself. Putting down a 1:34.66 was beyond all our expectations (it was basically the same car as last year with 40kw more). We were really just hoping to get into the 1:35's. If you look at last years times, the 1:34.66 would have been first place in open class. Mark said he loved the AWD Controller II, and that it allowed him to find the balance of the car and get the power down early. I was stoked that he loved it so much, having my product tested and proven at the top level feels pretty good.

The R34 GTR was a totally different setup. As Mark had removed the ATTESA out of the car, I had to design a complete new system for it. Anyone who saw the car run last year and then this year saw the results. The car got the power down and we were pulling over 2G lateral.

The car was capable of a low 1:29 but we didn't get to put that down at the event. We were having temperature problems which seem to be due to aero and Mark was running the lower power setting all weekend. Even so, on one lap we had a sector time almost 2sec quicker as Mark headed around the back of the track, the temp rocketed and he had to back out. Our final attempt was stopped short due to the oil down of the Cyber car. The Pro 1 group was cancelled for the clean up, and the track was slippery after that.

Working with Mark Berry and being on his team for the weekend was awesome. Those guys are very professional and worked together as a well oiled team, making me feel welcome from the outset. It was an experience I will not be forgetting for a long time !!

I was speaking to Mark today and he said there are no secrets and that I can post up data logging etc from the event. I will put together a write up and get it up on the web.

Paul Ruzic


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## MountainRunner (Sep 9, 2005)

Hey Guys,

I have the first part of my story up on Time Attack Talk if you want to have a read. I will do the second half with datalogging etc soon.

Paul


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## narface (Apr 9, 2010)

It seems like a lot of tuning companies in Japan are coming up with their own 'tuned' digital G sensor. Kansai Service has one in development and MCR has just finished testing one.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Looks just like the tarzan thingy?


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## narface (Apr 9, 2010)

Midori Seibi Centre has updated their line of Digital G Sensors. With the help of racing driver Takayuki Aoki as an advisor, Midori Seibi Centre has made further improvements to fully utilise the potential of the GT-R's ATTESA-ETS. The red G sensor is for track use, while the blue G sensor is for road use.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Aki, this review you did for the Do Luck box is it an unbiased review? I have read various things that Speedhunters are sponsored by some of the tuning companies so reviews tend to be on the biased side. 

I hope you dont take this wrong as I am looking to buy a G Box.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

FRRACER said:


> Aki, this review you did for the Do Luck box is it an unbiased review? I have read various things that Speedhunters are sponsored by some of the tuning companies so reviews tend to be on the biased side.
> 
> I hope you dont take this wrong as I am looking to buy a G Box.


No, it's a good question to ask, I would be asking the same. To this day, I have not received anything of value from either Ito-san of Do-Luck or Tarzan himself. And that was the understanding when I participated in that demo, and when I wrote the review. It certainly would have been nice to receive something, but for me it was enough to meet two legends and also have a bit of fun with a new device. Plus be one of the first to post a review.

And actually, I still to this day have not bought the Tarzan G-box. I DID pay full price retail for the original Do-Luck G sensor, and that was before I had met Ito-san or Tarzan obviously.

The reason I haven't bought the Tarzan box is that I already have the standard digital g sensor, and frankly I don't drive my GTR enough (lately anyway) so that I find myself in situations where the Tarzan box would be useful over the standard digital g sensor. IF I had still had the OEM analog g sensor however, then I would get the Tarzan box in a heartbeat.

Eventually, I do plan to upgrade, except of course if you've been following my blog you know that I've been spending time and money on other mods recently.

Let me know if this answers your question!

Aki


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## bigjimmystyle (Aug 12, 2008)

Hi guys, looking for a replacement for my busted g sensor and found this thread.
Is there any meaningful difference between the Do Luck G Sensor, the Tarzan G Box and Midori ones? I noticed on Nengun the Do-Luck one is at least $100 cheaper.
Also are there any other options to consider?
Cheers


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## ttknf (Feb 2, 2007)

bigjimmystyle said:


> Hi guys, looking for a replacement for my busted g sensor and found this thread.
> Is there any meaningful difference between the Do Luck G Sensor, the Tarzan G Box and Midori ones? I noticed on Nengun the Do-Luck one is at least $100 cheaper.
> Also are there any other options to consider?
> Cheers


It depends on what you do with your car. The "regular" Do Luck one is the least "aggressive" in the tuning, with the Midori and Tarzan units being more aggressive and more track-focused.


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## bigjimmystyle (Aug 12, 2008)

It's for track only. What's "aggressive" about the tune? How is it setup differently?


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

bigjimmystyle said:


> Hi guys, looking for a replacement for my busted g sensor and found this thread.
> Is there any meaningful difference between the Do Luck G Sensor, the Tarzan G Box and Midori ones? I noticed on Nengun the Do-Luck one is at least $100 cheaper.
> Also are there any other options to consider?
> Cheers


The Do-Luck one (and the Midori green one) are "pure" digital G sensors. All they do is to record G forces digitally, and they send the unmodified signal to the ATTESSA computer.

The Tarzan, and the Midori Spec (red one) ALTER the actual G sensor output. In the Midori one, the signal is modified by a set variable, one multiple. So say that multiple is 1.2 (I don't know what it is, I'm using this number for simplicity's sake). That means that, if the G sensor reads a G of 0.5 - the Midori unit sends a signal of 0.5x1.2 = 0.6 to the ATTESSA ECU. 

The Tarzan unit, on the other hand, uses a SERIES of variables across the G range (presumably this is Tarzan's input). So it's more like a curved effect than a line, if you can understand what I'm saying. At low G, the multiple could be 1.5, and at high G, the multiple could be 1.2 - again I'm just making up these numbers, no one would tell me exactly what these numbers are.

The reason the Do-Luck one, btw, is cheaper is because Do-Luck has introduced their DTMII (pre-programmed and user programmable) G sensor device. You can read up on it on my blog.

Ito-san (at Do-Luck) told me to expect pricing for the standard box and the Tarzan to come down.

Hope this helps.

Aki


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## bigjimmystyle (Aug 12, 2008)

Thanks very much Aki, that information doesn't appear to be freely available so I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
Also, thanks for letting me know about the DTMII, I wasn't even aware it existed!
Have you managed to get it to a track yet? Keen to hear your experiences with it.
Also, have you come across the Full Race ETS-Pro? Do you know if there's any differences between it and the DTMII? The ETS-Pro is also fully adjustable.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

akasakaR33 said:


> The reason the Do-Luck one, btw, is cheaper is because Do-Luck has introduced their DTMII (pre-programmed and user programmable) G sensor device. You can read up on it on my blog.


I've got of these DTMII units for my R32 as I am quite interested in the difference it makes.

It'll be logging some laps with the stock sensor and the DTMII and see what the effect is in a few months time, at Brands Hatch circuit in the UK.


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## akasakaR33 (Oct 10, 2005)

bigjimmystyle said:


> Thanks very much Aki, that information doesn't appear to be freely available so I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
> Also, thanks for letting me know about the DTMII, I wasn't even aware it existed!
> Have you managed to get it to a track yet? Keen to hear your experiences with it.
> Also, have you come across the Full Race ETS-Pro? Do you know if there's any differences between it and the DTMII? The ETS-Pro is also fully adjustable.


Most welcome. Helps to have some inside info sometimes...

Unfortunately, with a new job I've been too busy to hit the track. Hence also lack of updates to the blog.

Yes I've heard about the Full Race product. Since I have no experience with it, I will not comment. I believe that Matt Jeff (Matt J) has purchased one for his 33, try PM'ing him for more information (I think he had posted something in the Trade For Sale section too, have a look there).

The DTMII unit leaves the stock ATTESSA ECU alone, changing only its longitudinal and latitudinal G inputs to then effect a change of output - thus it works for all cars, V-spec and std. The FullRace is different - do a search and I think you will understand how different they are. (not saying one is better than the other, different needs for different folks).

Aki


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

bigjimmystyle said:


> Thanks very much Aki, that information doesn't appear to be freely available so I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
> Also, thanks for letting me know about the DTMII, I wasn't even aware it existed!
> Have you managed to get it to a track yet? Keen to hear your experiences with it.
> Also, have you come across the Full Race ETS-Pro? Do you know if there's any differences between it and the DTMII? The ETS-Pro is also fully adjustable.


The full race item is a standalone system. It completely replaces the ATTESA ECU with their own ECU which directly controls the clutch pack. You can buy them from the traders section of this forum.

FWIW I think that the most interesting item is the Ruzic controller. If I understand it it will completely change the operation of the clutch pack with user configerable maps. As I understand it you could have an R32 behave like an R33/34 and preload the front wheels.

http://topsecret.net.au/ruzicengineering/ATTESA%20Controller%20II%20Brochure.pdf


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Cris said:


> The full race item is a standalone system. It completely replaces the ATTESA ECU with their own ECU which directly controls the clutch pack. You can buy them from the traders section of this forum.
> 
> FWIW I think that the most interesting item is the Ruzic controller. If I understand it it will completely change the operation of the clutch pack with user configerable maps. As I understand it you could have an R32 behave like an R33/34 and preload the front wheels.
> 
> http://topsecret.net.au/ruzicengineering/ATTESA%20Controller%20II%20Brochure.pdf


If you want a real easy way to make the R32 handle more like the later models, fit an inline pressure relief valve to the return pipe to the ATTESA reservoir.
Works a dream. At least my doing that you do not have do buy a controller that you do not know what it does. There are controllers out there with clear instruction and no horse crap. I appreciate some think japanese originated equipment is best, but some people want to know actually what they are buying.


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## ttknf (Feb 2, 2007)

R32 Combat said:


> If you want a real easy way to make the R32 handle more like the later models, fit an inline pressure relief valve to the return pipe to the ATTESA reservoir.
> Works a dream. At least my doing that you do not have do buy a controller that you do not know what it does. There are controllers out there with clear instruction and no horse crap. I appreciate some think japanese originated equipment is best, but some people want to know actually what they are buying.


Why are you so skeptical when it comes to the JDM G-Force sensors? There have been quite a few people that have them that have noticed a positive change in how their GT-R handles as a result. What more proof do you need to show that they actually work?


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

ttknf said:


> Why are you so skeptical when it comes to the JDM G-Force sensors? There have been quite a few people that have them that have noticed a positive change in how their GT-R handles as a result. What more proof do you need to show that they actually work?


None, I'm sold pal. Where do I get one?


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

Aki, good to see you at TAS,

il drop you aline as looking to upgrade the g-sensor, so we can chat 

hope the new job going ok buddy



email inbound.

on a side note, also interested on the spray on protector !


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## bigjimmystyle (Aug 12, 2008)

So where can I buy the DTMII from and how much?


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

ttknf said:


> Why are you so skeptical when it comes to the JDM G-Force sensors? There have been quite a few people that have them that have noticed a positive change in how their GT-R handles as a result. What more proof do you need to show that they actually work?


Of course he will discourage people not to buy JDM because he produces a product that does more or less the same so it's a sales tactic to rubbish the competition. Saying that his products are not bad they work well if only he could make them look more attractive


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## Wouter (Jul 30, 2011)

We stock the DTM2. Currently working on an English description and finishing the instructions manual in English.

Pm me if you're interested!


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

Supplied richards one for his 32

With english instructions

They are a good unit..

Will be interested to see the results


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Lol @ traders! <3 you guys for jumping in waving your wares 

I've used the midori greens sticker one and I've just had ETS-Pro fitted pretty much night and day. If I was doing it again, ETS pro all the way on the 32, 33 and 34 I can't comment on yet.

You can actually feel and hear the ETS unit going to work. The Midori units are OK.

My 2C


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## rogerdavis (Feb 16, 2008)

Only positive things to say about coordsport and my experience with them.

Rain, how much work is needed to fit the full race system?


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Had it done at Zealou5, I believe it's about a day if you to fit it nicely, ie, proper mounting, fitting the switches neatly, it will trigger the the 4WD and Hicas lights, and the on dash pointless split meter doesn't work, but you can get it to work and turn off the 4wd light by wiring in a resistor to one of the wires, you do need to do a bit of splicing and planning, but worth it. 

The full auto mode with the gain on full is fun. I drove my 32 back home in pouring rain on 888s and could tell it was working lol, you can hear the transfer case too, but the car is pretty loud already so didn't bother me at all.

Personally, on a 32 I'd not think twice about ditching the original system in favour of more modern alternatives. The digital g-sensors are just applying band aids to an old system, that's just how I've ended up seeing it. Of course people can see things how they like.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Well provided my R32 is done by the 10th March (which it should be) everyone will be able to see just how much difference the DTM II band aid makes. Or doesn't. 

Looking forward to it myself.

Happy to test other things for a comparison if people want to send me one. :nervous: :wavey:


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

I have Andy's Fusion controller. Used it at Brands in the wet and it was awesome.

It has adjustability to vary 4wd in corners and straight line and a bargain price compared to other stuff on the market.

Pic of it fitted in my Project thread.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Like I said, that's how I can explain it to myself, not saying I'm right, not saying people who like the other units are wrong.

Maybe it's my lack of driving technique or technical knowledge. I'm sure the other units work amazingly well. Didn't mean to offend people choices!


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Was also very impressed with the above unit!:clap:
As Ryan said you can hear the traction take up difference.
Others I've tried just seem to be more invisible if that makes sense?

Bob


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

So and to throw in another device, how does it compare to the Ruzic one Bob??



Cheers,

Leo


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

R32 Combat said:


> None, I'm sold pal. Where do I get one?


Big LOL...

TT


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm also impressed with the Full Race ETS-Pro unit I've got in the car.
I had a track day before Xmas, and having the dial on auto mode made it easy to adjust how much 4x4 I needed, worked very well!

I have had a Ruzic unit before this, and it too was a great controller, I did like the ability to have two maps loaded with a switch to be able to flick between the two.
Only criticism was it was hard to adjust on the fly, and a bit techy to understand.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

I thought bob (Fourtoes) was a dealer for the new ruzic? I need one for my 32 I may go for the full race one. From what rain says.


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Hi guys sorry for the late reply.
I was intending to be a dealer for ruzic but time constraints on my part meant I just didn't have the time to invest in this and the support it deserves.
I totally agree with what Chris said with regards to the ruzic!
Is a great bit if kit but indeed quite techy. I just love the display you get with the ruzic where you can monitor your long and lat G digitally as well as the torque bias.
Also as Chris said the two maps on a switch is great!
But at the same time I love the ease and intuitive controls of the Full Race unit.
My ideal would be the Full Race controller with the ruzic display!
That would be the best of both worlds!
I might even try to do that as after trying Ryan's Full Race ETS controller I think I'm going to have to get one for my car.
:thumbsup:
Bob


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Bob can I buy from Ruzic stright from them? Mite give it a try.


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## fourtoes (Feb 27, 2003)

Yeah Andy I'll dig out their contact for you bud!
I'll ring you early next week re the bits I need to send up to you for the R34 track car engine bud! 
:thumbsup:
Bob


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Ok mate happy days so your man kept saying when he bought the engine lol


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## bigjimmystyle (Aug 12, 2008)

Does the ets pro require an auto electrician to install? What about the DTMII?
Also, I need to preserve ABS is that going to be an issue with either of these units?


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## bigjimmystyle (Aug 12, 2008)

Ended up buying the dtm2. Does anyone by chance have a set of English instructions?
Would really appreciate it!
Cheers


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