# What comes after track days? How do I get into real racing.



## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

I started doing track days early last year, I got the bug real bad at Cadwell in my BMW Z4 and moved onto using the GT-R on track with the gtroc once I had gained a little confidence.

I've upgraded my GT-R a fair bit now with 100% of the focus on track upgrades which is why I've kept the power at pretty much 600-650 BHP.

Confidence has always been my main issue, the speed these cars can carry through a corner is ridiculous, I've spent a lot of time and money improving my skill and confidence level now, I've done the full CAT driver training academy which is not cheap, at about 7k when factoring hotel, petrol, track rental etc etc it is without a doubt the best money I've spent on this hobby of mine.

This year I plan to do 20-30 track days around the country and also in Europe , I also plan to work with Colin Hoad again for a few more days doing on track learning some more advanced stuff.

So that's a little about how much I've done with this hobby/passion of mine, in 2016 I want to take it up another level, I want to get involved in real racing, but I don't know where to start and what would be best for me, When I say racing I mean purely from a hobby point of view.

I've looked into some of the different cups like mx5, Atom cup etc but I'm unsure of what I should expect cost wise.

When I mentioned the mx5 cup to a friend of mine he called it banger racing due to the amount of aggression and contact in it which I don't think I would like.

Budget would be about 20-30k for the first year, I realise that although that's a fair bit of money, it might not actually go that far in this sport.

The reason I'm asking on this forum is that I know there are a few people here who are involved in Motorsport and also a few people who are heading down or already down the same path as me like VernonJones, Anthony Gaylard Etc.

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers
Matt


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## extremelimo (Jul 21, 2013)

There are a number of companies that will rent you a Radical for a track day, go try one. If you think the GTR can carry speed through a corner you will not believe what a Radical can do. Radical races allow for 2 drivers over a 40 minute race 2 races. Usually 40-50 cars on a grid I bought the 2010 championship car, could have raced it no problem £26,500. Bearing in mind you can share the cost with another driver


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## ben15476 (Feb 25, 2013)

I am interested in this and was talking to another member on Tuesday about taking the track day racing to the next level.

Will be watching this post...


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

extremelimo said:


> There are a number of companies that will rent you a Radical for a track day, go try one. If you think the GTR can carry speed through a corner you will not believe what a Radical can do. Radical races allow for 2 drivers over a 40 minute race 2 races. Usually 40-50 cars on a grid I bought the 2010 championship car, could have raced it no problem £26,500. Bearing in mind you can share the cost with another driver


A radical is something I've been looking at also, would it be possible do do a full season including buying the car for 30k? maybe if I buy new and then sell it after season end? I don't mind floating some cash in a more expensive race series if I can keep the total year cost around 30k


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

If you want a toe in the water try racing a Radical in the 750 Motor Clubs Bike Sports championship, much cheaper than the Radical organized championships. You should be able to pick up a half decent SR3 for about 20K.
If you fancy single seaters have a look at the Monoposto Club championships, one of my ex National championship competing FF Zetec is up for sale at Medina Motorsport, cost is £11K and it would be ideal for the Mono Clubs 1800 class, complete car ready to go for a reasonable price.


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Have a look at the SR1 cup


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## extremelimo (Jul 21, 2013)

A new Radical is over £100k but in the winter I have seen many high spec cars that have only tracked dayd for £25k that are totally raceable. you could also do the GT series that incorporates Castle Coombe very good cheap racing, we turn up with traller, and just enjoy it


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

Just reading up on sr1 cup, it seems to be within budget


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

If you're gonna race in the 750 Club, get a sorted prosport, halve the price and the performance is equal (if not better) than a std SR3 and more then enough if you're not in the Radical series. (I've got both cars at the mo so I can compare  )


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## extremelimo (Jul 21, 2013)

Forgot the SR1 cup very low budget not even slicks great entry but nowhere near the RS performance or handling


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Otherwise you'll be bored after a year or so again when you're used to the SR3 and you'll want to get into the SR8 which is in a whole different league (pricewise too  )


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Whatever you do don't go out in an SR8 just yet or you'll not want anything else anymore LOL


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## extremelimo (Jul 21, 2013)

I want an SR8 so badly,but really think Id kill my self, but I WANT ONE, what a way to die:chuckle:


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

barry P. said:


> If you want a toe in the water try racing a Radical in the 750 Motor Clubs Bike Sports championship, much cheaper than the Radical organized championships. You should be able to pick up a half decent SR3 for about 20K.
> If you fancy single seaters have a look at the Monoposto Club championships, one of my ex National championship competing FF Zetec is up for sale at Medina Motorsport, cost is £11K and it would be ideal for the Mono Clubs 1800 class, complete car ready to go for a reasonable price.


Although I did a few races in the BRDC school championship in the late 90's, when I started again back in the late 00s I bought myself a Formula Vauxhall Junior which I run myself although I didn't realise the car had a bent chassis and handling was awful but did a whole season and learnt a fair bit. 

Then I sold that car bought a Formula Renault which is a serious bit of kit and some proper driver tuition from someone who raced these cars at national level allowed my to develop my driving further and gain more enjoyment from it.

I plan to go out to tests regularly once its rebuilt, but having had the R32 project on the go, getting married and buying a house that put my racing on hold.


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## RossC (Oct 20, 2014)

I have a 2006 Radical SR3 for sale that would be perfect for the bikesports championship which would be a good place to race in your first year. If you fancy something a bit different I also have a 1963 Lotus Cortina and a rotary powered 1970 Chevron B16 we will be renting out at historic race meetings this year.


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## ants101 (Feb 28, 2013)

Matt.....Have you thought about the difference between mechanical and aero grip....2 very different things to drive.... IMHO maybe better to hone on mechanical first.......also you want maximum seat time for you £....so maybe endurance over sprint......lastly....owning and preparing a race car is time consuming.....you may consider drive and arrive.....just a few thoughts...but what ever you do...get into it...such a different level to track days you will never look back and your skills will develop in no time.....


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

If I was planning to go racing I'd probably go into the Fun Cup that Ant and Vernon have done/do.

It's a cheap way to have fun and learn the basics of motorsport which you can can then move on from if you want to.

I have avoided it thus far because I know it's a hobby that would get out of control.


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## jonnypolish (Sep 25, 2012)

Been researching this a lot this year so far, Starting on marshalling at brands/Silverstone for this season to get talking to some of the drivers of various cups. 

Looking to enter the PBMW championship in 2016 (my expendable cash is somewhat limited as I don't earn much ) 

The Max5 cup looks like good fun and I know they are enforcing stricter rules on contact in most forms of these motorsports. (although it is never completely unavoidable)

Average cost for your first year in Max5 would be about £13-£15k including buying the car, tyres, fuel, trailer etc (not including any potential damage) 

There are many championships that rent you a car for a season including getting it to events/maintenance and hospitality so you have your own pit crew for around the £20-£25K mark which could be a good tester if you have the money  

Keep us posted on your progress!


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

I think Toni raced Mr2's, might be worth asking her as well.


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

matthewk said:


> A radical is something I've been looking at also, would it be possible do do a full season including buying the car for 30k? maybe if I buy new and then sell it after season end? I don't mind floating some cash in a more expensive race series if I can keep the total year cost around 30k



Have at look at the Caterham race series. It will be far cheaper to buy a car, race it, and fix it compared to a Radical. 

It's a great way to get into racing, and you'll learn far more in a Caterham instead of jumping straight into something like a Radical from the outset. Caterhams are like karts for adults, learn the racecraft then go racing proper.


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## Max Boost (Apr 9, 2010)

Mookistar said:


> I think Toni raced Mr2's, might be worth asking her as well.


LOL

Did she _actually_ race, or merely drop the fact that she had a race licence into as many posts as possible?

I'd take what she says about racing with a very large pinch of salt. After all, she put herself up for deciding who's safe to go on track at the ASDA On Your Marks Charity Day with the GTROC a while ago, by mentioning(yet again) that she has a race licence, thereby implying that she is in someway qualified to judge whether a driver is capable, or not, of driving the paying public round an airfield at high speed. Then at the event she loses control of her own car and spins it while driving the paying public round a lap of the airfield.

The old adage of _all the gear and no idea_ springs to mind.:chuckle:

The OP is better off asking somebody who is _actually_ racing cars, instead of somebody who merely _talks_ about it.


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## jonnypolish (Sep 25, 2012)

Caterham have a starter cup for novice's which costs around £25K and they give you the car and maintain it for your first year of racing!

If I had the money that would be my opening route.


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback guys, a lot of options to consider, I am leaning towards the fun cup with a shared drive but will have a better understanding of what I want next year.


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## AlexJ (Apr 3, 2003)

jonnypolish said:


> Caterham have a starter cup for novice's which costs around £25K and they give you the car and maintain it for your first year of racing!
> 
> If I had the money that would be my opening route.


Ginetta do something similar, buy the car (road legal) and get a years racing for free - or vice versa depending how you see it. You see their cars out at track days a fair amount.

MSV do some intermediate steps between track days and full on racing, "trackday trophy" and "team trophy" which are quite reasonable costwise.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Matthew if you get your National B licence I am more than happy to hire out my car to you. PM me if you want details on costs etc. This will really wake you up in terms of how a car feels with aero grip compared to the mechanical grip you may have experienced in the GTR. It's another level and something one should experience at least once in their life.


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## sin (Dec 3, 2007)

Matt - Just do it................ you have got an itch and it needs to scratched.

Scratch it, you will not look back, be careful though its addictive.

Asking what formula is best is like asking "what's the best exhaust for a GT-R / who's the best tuner" people will only recommend what they have or who they use and the same will be said about racing.

Things to consider - budget and seat time. 

With regards to Funcup pros are seat time typically 2 x 40 minute sessions per race, there the whole day with pit lane garages so it feels like a real racing experience, one make series with equal cars as proven by ants101's team mate last year who mixed it with the top teams race after race in a rental car.

Cons - i'll be honest i'm struggling here as i love it but the 1st time i drove one i thought wtf is this. No driver aids, they rattle, noisy, really physical to drive and borderline agricultural compared to modern road cars but once you settle in, **** me they're fun and predictable and have to be driven on the edge / grip limit to get the most out of them, or so i'm told.

I'll be doing a few races this season and will be my third, if i can help in any way give us a shout or talk to ants101 or vernon as they're both great lads.

Quick video of what to expect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDQ_X-4YYYU


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

sin said:


> Matt - Just do it................ you have got an itch and it needs to scratched.
> 
> Scratch it, you will not look back, be careful though its addictive.
> 
> ...



That looks like a lot of fun, I went to watch the CATDT car at Donnington last year, it looked great, lots of seat time and good racing.


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## sin (Dec 3, 2007)

matthewk said:


> That looks like a lot of fun, I went to watch the CATDT car at Donnington last year, it looked great, lots of seat time and good racing.


I would have been driving it, was that when it rained (2014) or the season before (2013). If it was 2014 that was our 1st wet race ever (very lucky the season before) glad i wasn't in a caterham / mx5 / radical for that one. I would love to say that was a fun race, truth is my sphincter was on overtime. I can't remember the last time it twitched so much. Craners with no grip at 80/85 mph is scary (to me anyway).

Noticed a small typo in my previous post. Was meant to say this will be my 3rd season this year, not 3rd race as it read.

Matt, you will be able to hire a seat from a few teams https://www.facebook.com/Trackcars4hire?fref=ts

These are at Silverstone in March - you can rent for one for an hour, they have a twin seater for training or hot laps. Maybe worth a call.

Best of luck what ever you decide.


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

2014, I cameby the garage to speak with Colin, I had my wife and baby with me, you were all pretty busy though.

I will look into testing one on track.

Thanks for the advice.


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## RB Powerhouse (Mar 16, 2015)

first thing upgrade the budget haha.


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

Budget seems reasonable for some of the entry level stuff out there, also could do a more expensive series if I can sell the car afterwards and the depreciation + running costs stay in budget it would just mean I have to float a bit extra.


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## BAZGTR530 (May 19, 2011)

You seem to enjoy doing lots of laps, racing will drive you mad. A whole weekend and you will be lucky to get two 20 minute races with about half of it under a yellow flag because 3 cars have binned it at the first corner. Sr3 will cost you 100k a year to race properly.

If you like lots of driving and want loads of high speed laps you cant beat a Juno or Radical. Good car 30-40k but vey cheap to run. Tyres and brakes will last a year Lol

You can have two full days at Spa and be there and back with a friend and hotel for £1200, probably the best circuit in the World

Radical through Copse on a track day is a buzz

barry4347 you tube - Bing Video's


Juno how fast at Bedford

barry4347 you tube - Bing Video's


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

only just spotted this, thanks for advice, still looking around, its a bit of a head scratcher, Im nit sure which direction to go in, I just want to be involved in some sort of racing.


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## twobadmice (Jul 2, 2013)

Matt this is purely tongue in cheek but you are from Yorkshire.... So if you want to get really involved in racing.... Whippets it is!


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## TomS (Mar 21, 2012)

Matt, you looked into the Caterham Academy? £25k for car and season but with all running costs etc it'll probably be £30-35k. It gets you to progress through their "divisions" so you can use the same car for 3 seasons then move on to something quicker.

Or MSV Trackday Trophy which requires a >600kg <175hp/tonne prepped car and you pay £300-400 per race with any other cost(s) you pay for yourself.


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## BAZGTR530 (May 19, 2011)

At Brands today and the Formula Ford race has spent half its time under the safety car


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## BAZGTR530 (May 19, 2011)

Porsche Cup Brands 3x safety cars Doh


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## RossC (Oct 20, 2014)

BAZGTR530 said:


> Porsche Cup Brands 3x safety cars Doh


Thats racing at that level im afraid Baz. Short circuit, drivers of varying talent level all with alot to prove with the cameras on them. 

Nothing compares to the buzz of racing be it a 20min race or 24hr.


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## swoody123 (Apr 19, 2014)

i race in the BRSCC Mazda championship..its such a good entry level into motor racing..the grids are always full and competitive from the front to the back..its televised on Motors Tv on sky and we race all over the country.on the 9th & 10th of next month i will be racing at brands Gp and supporting the Blancpain series.
i've also raced in the Race of remembrance last november at Anglesea and have become good friends with ex england and watford footballer Luther Blisset and BTCC Adam Morgan who were my team mates..we finished 3rd in class..but what ever you do i'm sure your going to love it like i do..oh and i took my first win at Silverstone two weeks ago and i'm still buzzing..Lol


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## graham1987 (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm a mechanic for Apollo Motorsport 

Apollo Motorsports

We race in the vw fun cup series, it's endurance race around many UK tracks, each race is around 6hrs split between three drivers, so seat time for your money is brilliant, also once a year we race 25hrs at spa which is incredible! We do arrive and drive which would easily fit your budget, so you rock up jump in, practice, qualify and race. We do all the hard work for you  

If you'd like any more info please don't hesitate to give me a shout. 

Cheers Graham


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Matthew, we can have a chat at Silverstone in 2 weeks, and then bend Jake's ear as he has 'some' experience.

I might even be able to add my four pennies worth, but please realise, I don't have a current racing licence!


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm in the process of applying for my race licence, I have completed my medical and I'm now waiting to do my in car and written test, I have hit a big hurdle and my racing career may be over before it has started, I am very colour blind with red and green, I can tell the two colours apart so I will pass the written test when the flag questions come up but I haven't been able to find much information on wether I will be allowed a licence or not.


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

The optician has filled in the medical eye test part of the application, I have perfect corrected vision (contact lenses) but I have failed all of the colour test plates.


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## swoody123 (Apr 19, 2014)

providing you see red as a different colour to green and can differentiate the two when waved or shown i'm sure they should allow you to race..i will look in the blue book and see if it mentions anything


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## swoody123 (Apr 19, 2014)

well it says in section 10.1.10 subsection f. Drivers must have normal colour vision in that they can distinguish the primary colours of red and green.
so you mite have a problem..contact the MSA just to make sure..good luck buddy


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## matthewk (Aug 22, 2013)

Thanks, thats the thing, I can distinguish between those 2 primary colours, colour blindness is difficult to explain but imagine red cherries on a tree with green leafs I wont see the cherries. But If you hold up a red block and then a green, I know which is which.


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## GregorJP (Jul 4, 2013)

This week, I begin my first season in the Production BMW championship. It's really budget racing, but a full grid, good organisation, a decent crowd of people and not too much contact in the races. I am really looking forward to it. 

Last year, a mate and I shared an E36 M3 and ran it for a couple of races in both the Project 8 Saloons and Track Day Trophy. I have to say that the standard of driving in Track Day Trophy was pretty ropey and there was a considerable variance in car quality. The M3 was a hoot though - plenty fast, perfect handling and cheap to maintain and run. I took it to the Ring and it was quick and excellent to drive. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U-GUv-k3Z8. 

I've heard good things about both the Caterham Academy and Radical series. Unless you are a particularly ace and talented driver, I would not see the point in starting off at anything other than entry level. I take my GTR on track, but the speed it can carry and the possible price to pay for making a mistake at that type of speed means that I want to have a full cage before driving at 100%. 

I'll report back on PBMW. First race is on Friday at Silverstone GP.


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