# 3 years from new : decision made



## pab888 (Jun 17, 2009)

Have been thinking for while whether to make a change...just because. 3 years ownership from new have been great. No problems , lots of fun, used every day, parked on street in central London frequently, friendly banter, differentiated from 99.9% of the rest of the population etc etc. "What to do?" I asked myself over and over. Endless internet browsing Porsche, AMG etc review. Just couldn't find anything I want to move to. Anyway, first post in 3 years to let everyone know I just got a Litchfield Stage 1 and the new gearbox software. Cost just over a grand and the car is transformed. Great decision. When the 991 Turbo comes along I'll have a look , otherwise its GTR all the way, everyday. Thank you. )


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I am in the very same position.

Ordered 4 years ago.

Received 3 years ago.

In that time I'm up to 580-600 horses with zorst, intakes, custom tune.

Where on earth do I go from here, other than to a newer year and get spanked for 30 big ones for almost the same car??

Answer.

Keep what I have and mod it to ****.

Trans cooler on tomorrow. Some more summer time fun add ons.

And sod the new 911 turbo.


----------



## AK-500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Good Decision. :thumbsup:


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

With the price of the early cars you got absolute bargains!


----------



## sin (Dec 3, 2007)

Let the modding begin................

As pab & CC , had the cars 3 years - Y pipe only for 1st 33 months, Cobb last few months but only with off the shelf maps.

Cars booked in at RB for a few extras as i type, injectors, pumps, intakes, exhaust and tune. Just waiting for the exhaust, then the fun can begin.

Cant wait.......................

Here's to next 3 years.


----------



## HSimon (Jun 4, 2008)

charles charlie said:


> I am in the very same position.
> 
> Ordered 4 years ago.
> 
> ...


Charlie,
Also, when the new 991 turbo arrives, i bet they will be asking you for your GT-R, and, 100 big ones to change. Its just not worth it, regards, SIMON.


----------



## Impossible (May 11, 2011)

http://wild-speed.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/991TTvsGTR-black.jpg

for that price why not go for a 2nd hand 458 italia with 5-6 years warranty remaining?


----------



## MarcR35GTR (Oct 17, 2010)

Perhaps because th e new 991 turbo, will probably be a lot quicker than the 458 !


----------



## KingOfTheGT-R (May 21, 2011)

How much is the new 991?


----------



## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

sin said:


> Let the modding begin................
> 
> As pab & CC , had the cars 3 years - Y pipe only for 1st 33 months, Cobb last few months but only with off the shelf maps.
> 
> ...


No stopping you now Phil!


----------



## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

i knew the modding fever would not take long Sin.. hahaha......

CC has summoned it up for me. where on earth do you go from here without spending an absolute fortune....

but if you HAD to do it. Ferrari all the way. no way i would chop in my car and hand over100 big ones for a porsche.. i would rather wait a few years until they came down in price at least 50%, as i reckon the new turbo is gonna coast WAY over 100k, and thats without personalisation and a few necessary extras....

i bet this dilemma was exactly the same in the same in the early 90`s when the R32 came out and every generation since....

mmm.... where to go, Nisan seem to have created the ultimate performance car for the money, in the world here........ again!!!!!!!!!


----------



## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

MarcR35GTR said:


> Perhaps because th e new 991 turbo, will probably be a lot quicker than the 458 !


Not sure. Too early to tell but the rumours are 520bhp, launch control and new PDK:

PorscheBoost - The future of the Porsche 911 ( 991 ) - Specs and renderings of the 2014 GT2, 2013 GT3, and 2013 911 Turbo

I am also fairly certain porsche will relieve one of >£100k for these. If the above is true, I don't think 458 owners would have a lot to worry about (not that they would anyway even if the porsche was quicker).


----------



## scampbird (Jan 24, 2011)

Got a 3 year old car too, and have been debating whether to move on or keep. Probably keep.

Instead of modding it I'm just going to burn 5 pound notes whilst waving my willy at passers by. Pretty much same effect.


----------



## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

scampbird said:


> Got a 3 year old car too, and have been debating whether to move on or keep. Probably keep.
> 
> Instead of modding it I'm just going to burn 5 pound notes whilst waving my willy at passers by. Pretty much same effect.


I'd suggest you move on to a fifth hand focus or something. You may as well be burning £5 notes and waving your willy around than buying expensive sports cars. Oh wait ..... you're already doing that and buying expensive sports cars.

:chairshot


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

alex_123_fra said:


> Not sure. Too early to tell but the rumours are 520bhp, launch control and new PDK:
> 
> PorscheBoost - The future of the Porsche 911 ( 991 ) - Specs and renderings of the 2014 GT2, 2013 GT3, and 2013 911 Turbo
> 
> I am also fairly certain porsche will relieve one of >£100k for these. If the above is true, I don't think 458 owners would have a lot to worry about (not that they would anyway even if the porsche was quicker).


Am I the only person who finds 911 boring?

They are the defacto choice for anyone with a bit of money who decides to show off that fact. The fact that they are an excellent car is widely ignored by most owners. They are just a standard statement of a level of wealth and or success.

What bothers me most is that the shape is only ever an evolution, and unless you are an officianado, you won't distinguish the changes. You buy a car hoping for an element of rarity and suddenly you are one of several million 911s on the road that are virtually identical.

Regardless of the above, I'll never want one as the engine still is and always will be IN THE WRONG BLOODY PLACE!


----------



## scampbird (Jan 24, 2011)

robsm said:


> I'd suggest you move on to a fifth hand focus or something. You may as well be burning £5 notes and waving your willy around than buying expensive sports cars. Oh wait ..... you're already doing that and buying expensive sports cars.
> 
> :chairshot


Blimey, reel em in. Too easy.


----------



## KAT (Apr 7, 2011)

scampbird said:


> Got a 3 year old car too, and have been debating whether to move on or keep. Probably keep.
> 
> Instead of modding it I'm just going to burn 5 pound notes whilst waving my willy at passers by. Pretty much same effect.


Only if you have it just for the sake of what the passers by think. 
Mod's will be £5's well burned if they are for your own benifit. 
J


----------



## NiallGTR (Aug 30, 2009)

Compromise - let's mod our cars AND wave our willies.


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> Am I the only person who finds 911 boring?


I don't get them either.
Growing up never had a small percentage of the money required, so they weren't on my radar. Now I am older and have earned a few quid I find they don't have an image I want to be associated with.

Sure, there are some real enthusiasts out there somewhere, but most of the time they seem to be driven by people that just want to have a badge and say they have a "Porsche".

Quite a few of them could do with a CAT DT day! :chuckle:

Can't see why anyone would spend that kind of money to have a car that is relatively common.
I see several each day going into and out of work. Not the faster ones either, just the cheaper versions as I guess they are the best "badge" buy.
This is part of the problem, even if you buy a nice one it's still the same car as all the other wallies.

They give me a wide berth when I am in the GT-R.


----------



## NiallGTR (Aug 30, 2009)

GT3/RS aside, I agree. I owned a 911 turbo for a while and it was rather anodyne despite being plenty fast.


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

Adamantium said:


> Am I the only person who finds 911 boring?


I was a true Porsche enthusiast and owned several 911's until I discovered the GTR in 2008.

Ordered one, picked up one of the first, sold it and bought another and never looked back.

I was loaned a Porsche 991 C2S with PDK for three days by Dick Lovett and returned it knowing where my true love is - GTR

Only the GT3 RS4.0 comes close, and that is on a track, as on the road and with everyday use the Nissan GTR wins.

I honestly cannot think of a better car in the sub 120k area that even comes close to a Litchfield MY11 GTR.


----------



## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

^ completely agree with last 3 posts above....


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Depends what you mean by a Litchfield MY11.

I have one of those. I just hope that stage 5 isn't too far.

I really can't think of a car at ANY price that I would rather have.

I know I have a habit of changing cars, but four GTRs has got me to the point where I realise they are a drug I have to have.

I now can't get rid of mine as there is NOWHERE for me to go, at any price level.

You mention £120k, but even over £120k, there's nothing that does it for me. I suppose I like the concept of the aventador but I could never see myself riving italian exotica because the image deters me. I'd be embarassed to be seen in it.

I could really like a 458, but ultimately it is going to feel slow. I love the idea of more soul and a beautiful noise, but it doesn't trump the pull factors for me of the gtr. I could only have that kind of exotica if I were mega rich, had nothing else to spend my money on, had masses of land and was collecting cars in addition to what I have already.

For me, having a runaround and a "special" car. There's no other option at any price.


----------



## andyg (Apr 1, 2012)

well said adamantium


----------



## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

scampbird said:


> Got a 3 year old car too, and have been debating whether to move on or keep. Probably keep.
> 
> Instead of modding it I'm just going to burn 5 pound notes whilst waving my willy at passers by. Pretty much same effect.


You couldn't be more wrong. Put the new gearbox software on it. Trust me.


----------



## Gavinsan (May 28, 2012)

Ok i am going to have to butt in here , i am a current owner of a 911 and have owned several models over the last 10 years . I have to say they are a fabulous sports car and deliver on many levels. i have also owned many japanese turbo charged performance cars and have fully appreciated the fun and handling that these cars offer. The strengths and weaknesses of these 2 very different approaches to performance cars is not to critisize just appreciate. Having recently test driven my first gtr my12 model i have to say i was very impressed with the car and am looking to try ownership very soon .


----------



## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

Adamantium said:


> Depends what you mean by a Litchfield MY11.
> 
> I have one of those. I just hope that stage 5 isn't too far.
> 
> ...


Agreed. 

Even though the 991 is likely to be a hugely capable car (as most porsches are nowadays), I could never see myself driving one. Maybe I'm too judgemental but for some reason whenever I see someone in a porsche I get the impression they are a bit of a tit (or at least they look like one). When I see someone in a rare/obscure sports car, it commands lots more respect. Porsches are almost the "default" choice as Adam says.


----------



## Gavinsan (May 28, 2012)

alex_123_fra said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Even though the 991 is likely to be a hugely capable car (as most porsches are nowadays), I could never see myself driving one. Maybe I'm too judgemental but for some reason whenever I see someone in a porsche I get the impression they are a bit of a tit (or at least they look like one). When I see someone in a rare/obscure sports car, it commands lots more respect. Porsches are almost the "default" choice as Adam says.


 coming from a guy that drove an audi till 3 days ago !


----------



## KaizerMotor (Jan 14, 2010)

When I was a kid I was dreaming about the 911, than I drove one and the dream came to the end. The GTR was different as I'm dreaming with it since I drove the first one :chuckle: there are faster cars and there are more comfortable cars, but I don't thing there is any better car then this "Datsun".


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Gavinsan said:


> coming from a guy that drove an audi till 3 days ago !


But a normal Audi is a great workhorse, not a sports car you aspire to own.

I have never had nor will I ever have aspirations to own a 911.

If they move the engine a little further forwards, I might consider it but it's always going to be the boring choice.


----------



## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

lol was just about to post a "what car next after the R35" thread before I saw this 

Have to agree it will be VERY hard finding a replacing for the GTR. Just never cease to thrill in every way!

Although I have to admit I've been looking at some Porks since the prices are dropping down to an affordable level. Also been looking at R8s but their prices are rock solid.


----------



## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

alex_123_fra said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Even though the 991 is likely to be a hugely capable car (as most porsches are nowadays), I could never see myself driving one. Maybe I'm too judgemental but for some reason whenever I see someone in a porsche I get the impression they are a bit of a tit (or at least they look like one). When I see someone in a rare/obscure sports car, it commands lots more respect. Porsches are almost the "default" choice as Adam says.


It is very much a matter of taste and what you want from a performance car. I agree that the 991 is a very capable car and Porsche have done a great job making their 'electric ' steering as good as I have experienced.

However, the car does everything you would expect a £89,000 to do, it looks OK, it drives OK and it actually makes the driver feel OK.

The Nissan GTR doesn't make you feel OK, it makes you feel great. I drive several cars and have a BMW 1M among a few others, and I must confess that the only car that makes me smile and the only car I really look forward to driving is the GTR. If you were to ask me exactly why, I couldn't put it into words, but suffice to say that when I owned a 911 Turbo (997) I didn't get that special buzz.

Sounds like there is something special about a GTR, it hasn't got the kudos or the name, but it was the only car that Lewis Hamilton bothered to stop, have a chat and want to drive. He has the pick of anything, especially Maclaren or Mercedes, but he wanted to drive the GTR. 

There is not an answer to this thread that has developed, but somewhere there is a reason and that is the something that makes me smile and something that creates the biggest queue at Bruntingthorpe Asda Charity day. That is ahead of 'Supercars' such as Lamborghini, Ferrari and Audi R8.


----------



## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

Gavinsan said:


> coming from a guy that drove an audi till 3 days ago !


I still drive the S4 and there are few cars than can match its combination of practicality and performance as well as comfort. I personally don't consider it a sports car. True, audi drivers are often perceived as idiots but I think that may have more to do with their prevalent style of driving. This is similar to the anecdotal bmw owner style of aggressive driving, rather than any statement they are trying to make (as opposed to many porsche 911 owners who buy their cars due to the badge but have no idea about cars or driving). The latter is the nub of this; the GT-R is a Nissan and those who simply wish to make a statement would be very unlikely to buy one, leaving the community healthily occupied by true enthusiasts who know quite a bit about cars and (often) driving.


----------



## Karls (Jul 12, 2010)

Before I got the GT-R, I was kind of in the habit of changing my cars regularly after about two years of ownership. I too had a 911, albeit the 997 C2S and I was dissapointed with it; I also hated the 'I've got a Porsche' mentality and snobiness that came with it. I felt it was a very bland and mundane car and sold it within 6 months of ownership. As has already been said, I can't speak for the GT3/RS versions as I haven't tried them and have no reason to be drawn to them after my experience with the C2S.

The GT-R is a different animal; I ALWAYS look forward to driving it, every time! I've never felt that way about a car before. Every journey is special and for me, the car is an absolute keeper (3 years old this year). I'm normally bored of cars after a couple of years but have yet to feel that way about the GT-R.

The R8 has been mentioned and I do admit to liking that car a lot but I can see myself once getting past the looks, finding that it really is no comparison to the sharpness of the GT-R. I couldn't see myself selling the GT-R in favour of an R8 anyway. Perhaps a lottery win would possibly see an R8 in my dream garage or even parked on the drive outside my dream garage/s as there'd be no room for it and used as my daily driver


----------



## Gavinsan (May 28, 2012)

alex_123_fra said:


> I still drive the S4 and there are few cars than can match its combination of practicality and performance as well as comfort. I personally don't consider it a sports car. True, audi drivers are often perceived as idiots but I think that may have more to do with their prevalent style of driving. This is similar to the anecdotal bmw owner style of aggressive driving, rather than any statement they are trying to make (as opposed to many porsche 911 owners who buy their cars due to the badge but have no idea about cars or driving). The latter is the nub of this; the GT-R is a Nissan and those who simply wish to make a statement would be very unlikely to buy one, leaving the community healthily occupied by true enthusiasts who know quite a bit about cars and (often) driving.


 Sorry Alex i have to disagree you clearly are very judgemental about your perception of cars and their owners ! TO use your expression "the nub of this " is that true enthusiasts are not judgemental about their perception of various vehicles , they simply go and enjoy them or not as the case may be .


----------



## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

Gavinsan said:


> Sorry Alex i have to disagree you clearly are very judgemental about your perception of cars and their owners ! TO use your expression "the nub of this " is that true enthusiasts are not judgemental about their perception of various vehicles , they simply go and enjoy them or not as the case may be .


Perhaps this is true. I am not making a judgement on the vehicles themselves. I have utmost respect for porsche engineering. I do consider myself a true enthusiast but I still couldn't bring myself to own a 911 because of my perception about a lot of (not all) the clientele who buy them. I think there are degrees of perception rather than a black and white scenario and it also depends on where you live (e.g. Chelsea vs other parts of the world in the context of porsche owners and whether they are enthusiasts)


----------



## tomgtr (May 24, 2008)

In 2 month time my GTR will be 3 years. Modding has been the usual exhaust, Cobb AP, intakes and injectors. Love the car to bits. But as it is close to 3 years old have been wondering myself too, whats next. 991? Dunno, more money, slower, less practical and indeed the image which comes with it. 458? Hmm love that car, but do I see myself driving it day to day or even get out of it at work or at friends? No not really, it's not me. Also have an issue wit Ferrari, when the next model comes out I would feel a bit like a wannabe still driving that 430 or so. Fair enough, 458 just came out but sill, the wanna have it factor dies out for me pretty quickly with this type of cars. So the only next car could be something very comfy, big and still fast. So M5 or Alpina B5 or AMG. But, will I miss the GTR? For sure, the car puts a smile of my face every day. So whats next? Keeping it! Modding it maybe a bit further. Only car I would really like more is the MY2013 GTR if it comes out in the red color used in the Usain Bolt commercial!


----------



## Booooh (Sep 29, 2008)

Spraying ur Super Silver will be cheaper  ...

Ben

PS You've been talking about that color a lot lately, working towards something?


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

For me, the stigma of driving a porsche is a much smaller disincentive than the car itself.

I find the interior bland and dull and the exterior shape has become so familiar due to it's limited evolution that familiarity has bred contempt. There have simply been so many variants over so many years that it really is "common". It could never be special unless it were a GT variant, and even then ultimately it's just a few cheap add ons. It is madness that they charge you more to remove parts!

and then the fact that the engine is in the wrong place, but I might have mentioned that before. It bothers that me starting with a clean slate no modern car designer would build a rear engined car if they were looking for the ultimate in handling. The 911 is what it is because killing it off would a commerically stupid decision for porsche. I find myself far more interested in the cayman or even boxster, but they simply don't make them fast enough for me.


----------



## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

Adamantium said:


> and then the fact that the engine is in the wrong place, but I might have mentioned that before. It bothers that me starting with a clean slate no modern car designer would build a rear engined car if they were looking for the ultimate in handling. The 911 is what it is because killing it off would a commerically stupid decision for porsche. I find myself far more interested in the cayman or even boxster, but they simply don't make them fast enough for me.


Very true, one can't argue with physics. I have driven a 996 GT3 at various speeds and the rear end dynamics are challenging especially when going into corners just too fast or dropping throttle in bends. The optimal window is small due to their large polar moment of inertia which can overwhelm the rear tyres regardless of how wide they are.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Nice to see someone else appreciating inherent polar moment problem.


----------



## Gavinsan (May 28, 2012)

One of the most rewarding experiences in driving is nailing the entry to a corner in a 911 and feeling the weight of the car pushing the rear tyres into the tarmac on exit as you accelerate out, in my opinion. Dare i say the gt variants that you complain about are alot more feelsome in the steering department than your beloved gtr which bulldoses through a bend with its extra weight and 4 wheel drive ! in my opinion of course.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I think that's a fair criticism and analysis of the differences. As I said there are advantages to the layout, especially the rear end traction, but for me the chassis will always be fighting the physics. Both cars are compromises in different areas and can only be assessed as a package, and it's on balance that I'll always reject the 911. The GTR package trumps it, but ten as I said, for me, the GTR package trumps everything.


----------



## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

Adamantium said:


> Nice to see someone else appreciating inherent polar moment problem.


youtube - nurburgring - crowd pleaser, adenau, wherever.... says it all.

every other crash is a Porsche 911 losing its back end, and once it goes - its gone! :nervous:

thats what worries me... and the way i drive, bound to happen, sooner rather than later


----------



## alex_123_fra (Mar 26, 2008)

Gavinsan said:


> One of the most rewarding experiences in driving is nailing the entry to a corner in a 911 and feeling the weight of the car pushing the rear tyres into the tarmac on exit as you accelerate out, in my opinion. Dare i say the gt variants that you complain about are alot more feelsome in the steering department than your beloved gtr which bulldoses through a bend with its extra weight and 4 wheel drive ! in my opinion of course.


Rewarding? Yes it could be argued so. In my view mainly due to the battle one has with the sub-optimal configuration of the car. There is little give and if you get it wrong, the results are often catastrophic. Hence why the 911 turbo variants are 4-WD and the GT2s are possibly the most commonly binned cars around as the sheer power and torque overwhelms the rear tyre grip.

Steering is a different issue. GT3s traditionally have very precise and direct steering. In my opinion, my Noble M400 had the most precise and direct steering feel of any car I have driven, coupled with a mid-engined chassis. The "feel" of that setup was like night and day compared to a GT3 (a 996 anyway).


----------



## dominic1 (Feb 16, 2012)

alex_123_fra said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Maybe I'm too judgemental but for some reason whenever I see someone in a porsche I get the impression they are a bit of a tit (or at least they look like one).


Some one said the same thing about me, when i told them on RS246 i was getting a GTR


----------



## NiallGTR (Aug 30, 2009)

The GTR has pretty good steering feel for a large 4WD car though, right? It's far, far better than my 996TT was - far better than most cars I've driven actually.


----------



## digi (Dec 17, 2010)

alex_123_fra said:


> Perhaps this is true. I am not making a judgement on the vehicles themselves. I have utmost respect for porsche engineering. I do consider myself a true enthusiast but I still couldn't bring myself to own a 911 because of my perception about a lot of (not all) the clientele who buy them. I think there are degrees of perception rather than a black and white scenario and it also depends on where you live (e.g. Chelsea vs other parts of the world in the context of porsche owners and whether they are enthusiasts)


Why care what others think if you are a true enthusiast. Nearly every supercar owner in my neck of woods told me the gtr is fast etc., but said don't buy it. Its a Nissan. If I listen to them I would be doing myself a dis service and miss one of the very best supercars of all time.


----------



## ikeysolomon (May 3, 2012)

I'm also lucky enough to have owned quite a few cars, and count Porsche, Aston & Ferrari among them. I had always hankered for a GT-R just to see what they were like, especially after seeing one at Goodwood the first year they were released.

I also belong to a Supercar club, which has all the usual suspects including the GT-R and I had decided that no need to own anything exotic (I recently sold a V8 vantage) and just use the club. The mistake I made was taking the GT-R out for a weekend (after the 430,R8,Gallardo) and to be honest I just had to have one. I had never not wanted to give a car back to them, but walking away from the GT-R I felt I was missing something, so instantly went on the prowl, being lucky enough to buy CT17's car 3 weeks later.

My stable of cars, now feels complete.

Ikey


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

ikeysolomon said:


> I'm also lucky enough to have owned quite a few cars, and count Porsche, Aston & Ferrari among them. I had always hankered for a GT-R just to see what they were like, especially after seeing one at Goodwood the first year they were released.
> 
> I also belong to a Supercar club, which has all the usual suspects including the GT-R and I had decided that no need to own anything exotic (I recently sold a V8 vantage) and just use the club. The mistake I made was taking the GT-R out for a weekend (after the 430,R8,Gallardo) and to be honest I just had to have one. I had never not wanted to give a car back to them, but walking away from the GT-R I felt I was missing something, so instantly went on the prowl, being lucky enough to buy CT17's car 3 weeks later.
> 
> ...


That's quite a complimentary post!


----------



## Stew73 (Jun 25, 2012)

GTR is excellent value when compared to the Porsche. Stick with it, or look for a 2011 GTR.


----------



## GLOXN (Aug 7, 2011)

GTR is up there with the best that Ferrari and Porsche can offer.


----------

