# R32 GTR vs Seat Leon - expensive mistake...



## Nas (Sep 22, 2008)

Stumbled across this video, really I am quite surprised at the Skylines mistake.. probably saw the red mist after being stuck behind it..

YouTube - DMN 2008 SEAT Leon vs Nissan Skyline GTR at Lydden Hill


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Turned in when he wasn't completely passed...guess he thought he was a lot faster than the Leon! Don't understand why he didn't just keep his line then the Leon would have been forced wide, suspect he was afraid he wouldn't make the corner unless he had the Leon's position.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Isn't that Darren Bly's car?


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Thats pretty poor driving!!!


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

To be fair in a race situation it is easy to misjudge a gap!


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Fair enough, but he was almost in line with him when cutting in!


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

That's Darren Bly. That happened some years ago. He did have a moment of miss judgement but it was partially the leons fault. 

The leon is in a lower class than Darren so tgey wasn't actually racing, Darren was lapping the guy, but for what ever reason the leon decided not to let him pass, and finally when Darren did get past, the leon held his line when Darren thought he'd let him in to take the safest line on the corner. Thus causing them to touch.

It's both drivers fault but for reference, that's darrens first and only major incident in some years, yet the leon driver is a liability! His brother has a leon too and it's not often they take eachother out with the red mist! 

There is another vid where the guy tries to take Darren out at brands for no reason at all!


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

For some reason my iPhone never let's me link YouTube vids. But if you look for "Darren Bly DMN brands GP race 2" and then see what happens at about 2:10.

That day Darren didn't finish race 1 so started at the rear of the pack! But the leon again got past that impreza, knew Darren would pass easily on the inside, but decided to go tight to the wall. Guy has real issues with being passed, even with when it doesn't affect his group position!

It's all different this season! Darrens now got the niggles sorted, and after 4 Races he has 4 race wins under his belt :clap:


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## Nas (Sep 22, 2008)

YouTube - Darren Bly DMN Brands GP Race 2 I am guessing this is it, look at exactly 2 minutes.

That Leon driver a slight nutcase, good job he got on his brakes when he did!

Although I can't help but think that despite the Leon driver causing the error this time, he probably didn't have much of a choice once he committed to that line, the Subaru was on his left and the Skyline on the right... 

Lack of judgement I think.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Yer that's the one, if you watch closely, the leon is passed the impreza, so if anything would defend the line from him, that part of brands is alot wider than 2 cars!
All racing incidents, however the leon guy needed to remember who he's racing against and who he's just on track with.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

If you like racing incidents. Watch "DMN brands Race 2" it's the one 9:40 long.

Was darrens first outing on new tyres and on pressures I didn't tell him about! Lol he said that when they were cold it felt like he had a puncture! But once upto temp you can see how much extra grip he had!

And at the end, you can makeup your own mind on who's fault the "coming together" is lol

Greg


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

The leon wasnt at fault in either case/vid :/

Esp. in the 2nd vid. He was on the racing line, defending against the Impreza. Its up to Darren to pass where he can not just expect the Leon to bail out of the way and slow down for him.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

I would agree with you Adam IF they were racing eachother! 

First one defo missjudgement by Darren, but the second one is questionable, the leon left a gap, he would know how quick Darren would jump in it. But yers it's down to darren to get past, hence why he didn't just plow thru!


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

if it wasn't a race the leon should've just let him pass


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Was there blue flags waved?

If not, then it's the person overtaking's responsibility to do so with due care.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Mate this is not F1! The marshals rarely get the blue flags out! Lol
To be fair the marshals are always good.

Racing incidents are always six of one and half a dozen of the other. personally believe that if I was on track in a metro then it's my job to let the faster cars in a higher class past! As there's no point holding them up!


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

The second vid WAS FOR POSITION! First vid was an cockup/missunderstanding - it happensl

The Leon had EVERY right to defend as he was in front of the R32, not being lapped!

Its not the Leon drivers fault that Darren started from the back of the grid!


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## Nas (Sep 22, 2008)

if it was for position, in that case I don't think there was much the Leon driver could have done at that time. 

After all he probably was thinking about a tonne of other things, one being that Subaru driver . You have to deal with incidents and incidents developing in the order they arrive, I guess the Skyline was just further down that list .

tbh It was probably just a case of bad timing for all drivers getting into that position, would have been a good spectacle.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Adam Kindness said:


> The second vid WAS FOR POSITION! First vid was an cockup/missunderstanding - it happensl
> 
> The Leon had EVERY right to defend as he was in front of the R32, not being lapped!
> 
> Its not the Leon drivers fault that Darren started from the back of the grid!


What part of different classes do you not understand? It NOT for position!!! That leon could win the whole race but makes no different to darrens position! It's all about class and points! For example, 

1st class A
2nd class B
3rd class A 

That would make no odds to the class A car in 3rd.
The reason there's such I variety of cars is to keep costs down. They all have there own races with the cars in there own class, it's just they are all on the same track at the same time!


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

I think a lot of it is that car is just so fast! It arrives very quick, I don't think there's much time for the Leon to react in the second vid, he's just trying to defend his racing line from the Impreza, probably never even saw the skyline. Easy to forget you have a rear view mirror too when racing, have done it myself!!:runaway:


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Nas said:


> Stumbled across this video, really I am quite surprised at the Skylines mistake.. probably saw the red mist after being stuck behind it..
> 
> YouTube - DMN 2008 SEAT Leon vs Nissan Skyline GTR at Lydden Hill




In the first video you can clearly see the leon comes accross to block him as he starts to over take. This left the skyline going alot further over on the track than he would of been if the leon had not done this which left him not being able to take the corner where he had been left on the track. I guess this is why the skyline tried to cut back in.


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

minifreak said:


> What part of different classes do you not understand? It NOT for position!!! That leon could win the whole race but makes no different to darrens position! It's all about class and points! For example,
> 
> 1st class A
> 2nd class B
> ...




you said it yourself there.... the Leon could win the whole race.

Darren was behind him, on the same lap. To me that means you dont have the right to be shown through as if under blue flags.

If Darren was behind him and about to lap him - yes, the leon should move over but he cannot as he has an Impreza up his ass.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

That was an example to explain a point Adam. 
Granted it's not under blue flags, however the leon was neither in darrens class or that imprezas class! So he was basically getting involved with 2 cars that didn't affect his own championship! 

Holding up a car that's over 5 seconds a lap faster is pointless and dangerous. 

I'm guessing that if you was in TA in that leons position, and a pro class car was on a hot lap and came up behind you, would you hold your line and block him off? Even if it didn't affect your lap in the slightest?!

Were not talking about the car pulling over and slowing down, were talking about a car giving the room for a faster car to pass safely! You see how fast Darren passed, there was no need for him to shut the door!


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

your missing the point entirely though... the Leon was the first car in the group of three. He was ahead. He was on the racing line, and sticking to it.

Darren should have prob gone for the outside.... and you clearly point out he has a MASSIVE straight line advantage so doesnt NEED to dive up the inside.

TA - If someone from Pro was in Club i wouldnt let them by for a couple of reasons.

1 - they arent on track at the same time LOL
2 - its my hot lap, I have a right to be there.... if they are that much quicker it should be easy to pass.
3 - TA isnt racing.

I can understand your point if on a cool/in lap


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

I think were not going to agree on this at all. Both said our views and both have valid points. 

However I do agree on one thing! Time attack is not racing, all the qualifying, but none of the racing lol :runaway:


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## Nas (Sep 22, 2008)

mattysupra said:


> In the first video you can clearly see the leon comes accross to block him as he starts to over take. This left the skyline going alot further over on the track than he would of been if the leon had not done this which left him not being able to take the corner where he had been left on the track. I guess this is why the skyline tried to cut back in.



valid point, I see what you mean. But it looks as if the Leon straightens up and really doesn't put up a fight, if anything it looks as if he considered blocking and partially did so and then realized he'd be overtaken pretty quickly so backed out of the complete block. But I guess the damage of having to cut back in was already done.


One things for sure Motorsport sure puts up some strong debates, (I guess thats why the FIA take a while making decisions in F1 :runaway: )


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Like some skyline owners over-estimating their car's speed/power. Took the turning thinking he's already passed the Leon. poor judgement, but in a race environment it does happen.


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## MacGTR (Dec 31, 2006)

This is motorsports, we have seen some stupid s**t in our championship as well. Just look at 3:10 in this video, completely avoidable, but still happened because people keep their foot in when they can't control it! 






"It is the onus upon the faster car to pass the slower car" Is something we get told by the CoC before every race meeting. So basically it is the R32's responsibility to get past the Leon safely, even if it is lapping it out of class/position, whatever.


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

...exactly


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

minifreak said:


> Mate this is not F1! The marshals rarely get the blue flags out! Lol
> To be fair the marshals are always good.
> 
> Racing incidents are always six of one and half a dozen of the other. personally believe that if I was on track in a metro then it's my job to let the faster cars in a higher class past! As there's no point holding them up!


Blue flags are/should be used under ALL forms of track Motorsport in accordance to MSA and FIA regulations.....


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Having now fully watched both videos I have to put complete blame on the SKYLINE DRIVER!

Poor judgement of how/when to overtake.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Nice final thought trev. You thought about contacting the FIA and offering them your services? I'd give you a reference after that last post alone!


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

minifreak said:


> Nice final thought trev. You thought about contacting the FIA and offering them your services? I'd give you a reference after that last post alone!


Get s***y and sarcastic all you want but I am right.


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## bayside gtr (Dec 24, 2005)

Wot I can't understand is everyone is slagging Darren of when they wasn't there when it happened and the events leading up to incident, it's funny that the seats don't race in the event no more wonder why check out few other dmn videos u will see the results for yourselfs


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

I'm not slagging Darren off..... just stating in the two videos shown HE is at fault in BOTH. The Leon was fine in my opinion.


These things happen when there are such differences in power through the grid.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Im sorry I ever questioned you Trev


Guessing you know everything about the DMN and events leading upto both incidents!


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## bayside gtr (Dec 24, 2005)

Adam in 2nd video he came across Darren when he was coming up inside how is that darrens fault why move to the right u can clearly see he moves over


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## bayside gtr (Dec 24, 2005)

Trev said:


> Get s***y and sarcastic all you want but I am right.


Your not right at all sorry I disagree


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Trev said:


> Having now fully watched both videos I have to put complete blame on the SKYLINE DRIVER!
> 
> Poor judgement of how/when to overtake.




I have to agree-The Skyline over took badly on the first video and tried to get the other driver on the brakes:chairshot


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## bayside gtr (Dec 24, 2005)

Someone else quite clearly don't watch the dmn saloons to no exactly how the seat drivers have caused more accidents even took each other out in one race to understand how frustrated people get over taking people who are not even in the group so why cut him up the way he did end of


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## jim-lm (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm sorry but it's the driver who is overtaking to do so in a safe manner...

It's nothing against darren but racing is racing, darren was behind him on the track, just because he is in a different class doesn't mean he has a right to drive around the track how he wants.

It's up to him as the driver to get past people infront of him, the first video is 100% darrens fault.
The second one is harder to judge..


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Watch the video!


If you watch video 1 properly you will see that the seat forces daren wide by over one car width! 

Its hard to see if your watching the cars. Watch the white line and the seat and see how much wider the gap gets! The Seat has come off the racing line to shove Daren across the track by around 3 car widths. If teh Seat was on the racing line then Darrens car would not of made contact with the seat.


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

I personally think there is no reason as to why the skyline should cut him up so early in order to adjust the line for the next corner. He overtakes and while he is doing so, the leon is traveling on a straight line, the 32 goes on the outside and then very strangely decides to cut the leon very early. In a race situation, sometimes you are pushed out of taking the preferred racing line, but you adjust accordingly not that you have to have that racing line or you cannot take the corner. If the line is not available, what do you do?


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

mattysupra said:


> Watch the video!
> 
> 
> If you watch video 1 properly you will see that the seat forces daren wide by over one car width!
> ...


You are clearly watching a different Vid :lol:

The Skyline turned back on line too early, he thought he was clear but wasnt - there is no other way to look at it.


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

bayside gtr said:


> Adam in 2nd video he came across Darren when he was coming up inside how is that darrens fault why move to the right u can clearly see he moves over




He didnt come across Darren.... that is the racing line.


He had his mirrors full with the Impreza trying to pass on the outside. It was just poor judgement on Darrens part to try and slip through on the inside.


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## minifreak (Mar 4, 2006)

Right this is pointless, we will never agree, some who post here are knowledgeable and there welcome to there opinion. Others are just keyboard racers! Who have never been in that kind of situation!

But I think we need to stop the argument. Darrens not on here to have his say and defend himself from people slagging off his driving! Fact of the matter is the first video was 3years old and the second one ain't exactly fresh itself! 

Darren is a excellent driver in a excellent car. 4 races this season and 4 wins says it all.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

At the end of the day, in the first video, I doubt he would've cut across the SEAT on purpose! In the other videos I've seen of Darren's car, it is unbelievably quick and he obviously thought he was past the SEAT. I'm sure Darren has his own version of that days events. This sort of thing used to happen (and still does probably) all the time in touring cars so what's the big deal?


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## Mook (Mar 20, 2007)

I've been asked to close this thread as it's history and semantics

Sorry

Mook


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