# Syvecs or Motec for car owners



## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Hi,

Just want to check anyone who is not a commercial tuner, tweaking their Syvecs or Motec standalone ECU's. Used to tune my own Subaru and Evo after I got fstopped going back to Tuners to tweak xyz. Did a hands on course back in the day which was called EFi101 and progressed from there very similar to the HPAcademy videos but you were live at a centre with a car, had to strap down a car on dyno, blah blah, tune xyz, etc. Then learn bit by bit on your own car. RIsky but after a while you knew what was safe and not safe to do.

Anyway back to a GTR want to know if anyone out there is tuning their own. Only really interested in feedback from those doing it rather than those taking back to tuners.

Thanks


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

I’ve got an emtron ecu but its still new and unfitted, projects running very late. 
It was a better buy than the other two for me And offering more than I’ll ever need.
You’ve got Mark Shead on the end of the phone for technical.
It will be left unlocked to have access myself.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Skint said:


> I’ve got an emtron ecu but its still new and unfitted, projects running very late.
> It was a better buy than the other two for me And offering more than I’ll ever need.
> You’ve got Mark Shead on the end of the phone for technical.
> It will be left unlocked to have access myself.


Wow excellent!! Im going to check this out and Skint my project has progresed a bit now with c960bhp with wheel spin on rollers and potential AWD controller issue im looking at. c850lb/ft but ive gone for original injectors and 1300 secondaries. g30-770's but ill post up some more when i get a none issue dyno. Here is my car on dyno

__
http://instagr.am/p/CMMFFBbnj96/
 I now know Im gonna be in tweaking mode I may up the primary injectors at some point to fully unleash the beast but I want the ability to tweak without going to Tuner all the time.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

There's some emtron ecu you tube vids with 101 efi


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Syvecs S7i plus seems a good option having had issues with Haltech Elite 2500 it’s my likely option going forwards.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

I think I’m moving towards Syvecs plus myself. Now I have so much bhp and torque I’m finding Im slightly tuning the car every weekend to get it perfect for launching through the gears and I’ve only got basic parameters enabled in ECUtek and the awd control. Suspension also adjustable. these types of things you don’t want to keep going back to tuner for, just base tune, get it good then tweak away. I know the risks and accept them.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

What were the issues with Hal tech?
Was this on a 35?


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## WarrenA (Jun 2, 2016)

I’ve just gone Syvecs, Motec is almost unheard of in the UK but preferred in the US but comes in around 10K


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

WarrenA said:


> I’ve just gone Syvecs, Motec is almost unheard of in the UK but preferred in the US but comes in around 10K


Do you do any tweaks on Syvecs yourself? Any issues?


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## Tiler (Mar 28, 2014)

Well, after chatting to iain Lichfield I’ve chosen to go Motec dash and ecu. I will keep you informed on progress once I get the car back in a few weeks. But up to yet iain tells me the car is running very well. And every thing is easy to use ie connecting reading files and all that kind of stuff.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Tiler said:


> Well, after chatting to iain Lichfield I’ve chosen to go Motec dash and ecu. I will keep you informed on progress once I get the car back in a few weeks. But up to yet iain tells me the car is running very well. And every thing is easy to use ie connecting reading files and all that kind of stuff.


To be fair SVM/Linney had said the same. As this will be my last GTR I just wanted to just have a kind of ultimate swansong GTR (without going much beyond 1000bhp and drivable on street).

Definitely come back and let us know as really interested to hear but understand MOTEC is more expensive as you would need a license as well.

I do however like the training support here MoTeC M1 Software Tutorial but they now have Syvvecs as well and Syvvecs seems more widely supported and cheaper? That MOTEC dash, MOtec ECU fitting and tuning would be setting you back £10 - 12k is my guess?


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

You need to figure out what you actually want from the ecu and if any future mods required, then pick the one that suits your needs best.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Yes, MOTEC and Syvvecs appear to do the same from what I can see (would need someone who knows the inside of both to answer if any major differences) and that is safety additions with sensors and taming launch, traction, AWD for me. These appear to be the best for track but yet provide for everyday drivability.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

What specs your front diff?


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Can you explain a bit more? I have upgraded linney front dif, awd, fwd and awd controller.. also rear dif. Ta


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

I was wondering if your sending more power to the front have you upgraded the stuff to handle more power.


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## WarrenA (Jun 2, 2016)

Reano said:


> Do you do any tweaks on Syvecs yourself? Any issues?


No issues and no leave it to the tuner


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

WarrenA said:


> No issues and no leave it to the tuner


Thanks was looking for people that tweak themselves.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Skint said:


> I was wondering if your sending more power to the front have you upgraded the stuff to handle more power.


Oh yes, no way would send to front unless LSD, AWD, etc done. Must say doing that, grip is ridiculous. also cant run it using Nissans standard Traction control as its now too intrusive. So use Tuners TC with some tweaks on AWD controller I find map 2 (linney) works well for normal driving, map 3 for launching (not LC but just accelerating is close to launching now) but at least I dont need to shock the trans. Just accelerate and just hang on.
So now just want something even better to really tweak small bits at a time, especially as track season coming up. Custom control on Ecutek manages slip, 1st gear torque, 2nd gear torque and can adjust TCM (touchpoints, etc) to help slip a little.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

I used Motec on my R34 GTR and use Syvecs on my R35 GTR.

ECU technology has moved on significantly between the two, but you are still opening an injector and timing a spark whichever system you go for.

The level of adjustable parameters with Syvecs was a bit of a shock, but have to say it does a great job now I am familiar.

Syvecs runs in closed loop for fuel at all times, so even if you get the fuel map wrong, the ECU is still going to chase the desired lambda value.

Knock detection and developing the ignition map is great on Syvecs, you also have maths channels that you can apply to your logs that I love.

You can stray into messing with the clutch map - I posted a thread on here earlier about that, Injector split, injector balance, all very interesting to do, but can be a challenge keeping to the speed limit with over 1000 Wheel HP.

I found that going to an airfield and practising launches etc was great value.

Would love to see the Dyno sheet on your G30-770's Reano? I have modified my turbos by messing with the compressor cover and the compressor wheel, but am intrigued with the G series turbos.


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Are you on efr’s Hugh?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Skint said:


> Are you on efr’s Hugh?


Yup,

That is correct Richard.

My build started with 7163 EFR's.

Having considered the way the car drove and looking at the alternatives in the market place, I felt that there was scope to modify the turbos with a larger compressor wheel and different compressor covers.

I created a 1200 BHP build thread that shows how the car was built and how the turbos were modified.

Most recent efforts have been to fix the problems I experienced with the fuel system.

Following a number of fuel cuts due to the fuel pumps pulling air on track and at TOTB, I decided to develop in in-tank fuel Surge Tank system, that contains brushless fuel pumps.

The Surge Tank system provides the minimum fuel flow above the engines fuel demands, to minimise fuel heating.

The first system that I have running in my car is capable of delivering more than 2000BHP fuel flow, but more cost effective Surge Tank solutions will be offered in different BHP capabilities.

The system is self learning to the engines fuel demands, so will be unrivalled in terms of the advantages delivered to R35 GTR.

Here is a log from the first run with the self learning system active.

The run starts on the left and finishes on the right, it is clear to see that the excess fuel pressure events even themselves out in the first few minutes of the run.

I will release more details once the system is ready to release on to the market.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Yes will do when fully complete. What I can say is this, my car is going to have some decals around the black panther (just rear boot stuff nothing big) but its going to have some of the lungs of the 'HULK' hehehaha. Dimitri will be finishing up the map on Ecutek. If that cant get what I want then im looking at Syvvecs. As I also have dual fuel 12 injector setup. Will throw some more pictures up soon. Never done a track in GTR (have in subaru and Evo) so looking forward to that.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Hugh Keir said:


> Yup,
> 
> That is correct Richard.
> 
> ...


Very interesting I did look at that thread as thought your DSC setup was also excellent. I have gone full out for battleship fuel system (overspecc'd to be sure) so interested to hear more about that as will be going on track at some point. Any compares with a battleship system would be good for me. Just in case I do get issues (hope not).


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Reano said:


> Very interesting I did look at that thread as thought your DSC setup was also excellent. I have gone full out for battleship fuel system (overspecc'd to be sure) so interested to hear more about that as will be going on track at some point. Any compares with a battleship system would be good for me. Just in case I do get issues (hope not).


Look forward to hearing how your build progresses.

Battleship is a great fuel system, but does not allow you to manage the fuel temperature very easily and also has no particular ability to stop the fuel pumps drawing air as the fuel sloshes around in the fuel tank.

I am using a different flavour of brushless fuel pump, but may offer alternatives later.

The system I am working on is a true Surge Tank, so keeps the fuel level around the fuel pumps with minimal fuel in the fuel tank.

The positives are that you save weight and save the embarrassment of your car going into limp mode on track or the drag strip.

Also the control system manages the fuel pumps to provide the minimum flow at all times to keep the fuel from being overheated.

Teaser pic attached of the Surge Tank, main and lift pumps being trialled just now.
.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Keep up the good work. My understanding was you could locate the battleship away from the trans area, etc to help regulate the temperature. Would be good to see some adapters to existing systems.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

It's not really the location of the fuel pumps in the tank Reano, since the fuel temperature in the tank will be even in all locations.

The fuel is heated up in in 3 ways:-

1 - Externally through the wall of the fuel tank by the gearbox and exhaust.
2 - Internally by heat from the fuel pump(s).
3 - Hot fuel returning from the engine.

For 1 - You can heat wrap your exhaust and also the outside of the Fuel Tank

For 2 - Brushless fuel pumps are great, but if they are pumping harder than is necessary, then they will heat up the fuel. Having a fuel control system that manages the flow of excess fuel will keep fuel temps down. 

For 3 - Having a fuel control system that minimises the flow of fuel past the engine will reduce the transfer of heat from the engine back to the Fuel Tank.

In high G-Force situations, in addition to keeping fuel around the fuel pump so that it does not pump air, the system I am developing will sort the issues at 2 and 3 above.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Well I don’t know enough to comment, hope it goes well.

so main benefit is 1. Eliminating limp mode due to fuel starvation? What else (not a mock but genuine question). Is this mainly for track, strip use?


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Don’t ams do a kit that uses the ac setup to cool it? I think it’s only lhd versions though.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Reano said:


> Well I don’t know enough to comment, hope it goes well.
> 
> so main benefit is 1. Eliminating limp mode due to fuel starvation? What else (not a mock but genuine question). Is this mainly for track, strip use?


Yup,

This is mainly for track or drag use, but I know of Syvecs equipped cars that have gone into limp mode when driving hard on the road.

Trouble is that Many EcuTek cars do not have a fuel pressure sensor, so cannot tell when the fuel pump is sucking air.

It's only when the lambdas are going lean that the ECU can see there is a problem.

Overheating the fuel will lose you power, so this is not good either.

With cars fitted with a fuel pressure sensor, the ECU will put the car into limp mode when the fuel pressure drops, so since most cars do not have a fuel pressure sensor, many will have had the problem and not known it.

When the fuel pump draw air, the engine runs lean and risks melting pistons, so just because you are not aware of the problem does not mean that you are safe.


There are a number of additional parts to the system that relate to anti-theft that I will explain later, but for now


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## Skint (Oct 11, 2014)

Can you buy a sensor that reads both pressure and temp?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Richard,

There is a fuel temperature sensor fitted in the fuel tank as standard.

Here is a picture of the fuel level sender on the drivers side of the car, there is a second fuel level sensor on the passenger side that does not have a fuel temperature sensor.

Top right of the picture, there is a bullet shaped thing that reads the fuel temperature.










Here is where my fuel pressure sensor is fitted between the fuel rails at the front of the engine.


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## Reano (Oct 1, 2015)

Tiler said:


> Well, after chatting to iain Lichfield I’ve chosen to go Motec dash and ecu. I will keep you informed on progress once I get the car back in a few weeks. But up to yet iain tells me the car is running very well. And every thing is easy to use ie connecting reading files and all that kind of stuff.


Hi Tiler, any feedback on motec?


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