# KPGC10 Classic skyline



## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

Here is some info for Bigkev.
This is a beauty. :clap:

J-Spec Imports mailing list

I would love one of these.
Any more info/pics feel free to add them in.
cokey


----------



## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

Found this too,

Japanese Nostalgic Car :: View topic - Project Hakosuka Build Thread

Think im getting the Hakosuka bug. 
cokey


----------



## JAY-R32 (Sep 1, 2003)

If you like these , i recommend subcribing to the magazine Japanese Nostalgic Car - Magazine 

Its very good :thumbsup:


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

I WILL be buying one of these one day soon. At least when the pound gets some guts back! I couldn't afford a gtr, so it'll prob be a KGC10, a replica really.


----------



## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

Japanese Used Cars Auction Online

A few on here the car I like is £66000 plus shipping and UK tax


----------



## Vips (May 13, 2007)

Japanese Car Auction Details


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

I like these a lot too, but most of the examples I've considered buying for our stock are either way too expensive, or rusted to hell. 
Anyone barmy enough to buy a 70's classic from an internet Japanese auction site or similar is likely to regret it.

The best specialist dealer / restorer / modifier in Japan for these and Fairlady Z classics:
RockyAuto - µì¼Ö¡¦Ì¾¼Ö(¥Ï¥³¥¹¥«¡¦¥±¥ó¥á¥ê¡¦¥Õ¥§¥¢¥ì¥Ç¥£¡¼Z¡¦GT-R)¤ÎÀìÌçÅ¹ ¥í¥Ã¥*¡¼¥ª¡¼¥È


----------



## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

Miguel - Newera said:


> I like these a lot too, but most of the examples I've considered buying for our stock are either way too expensive, or rusted to hell.
> Anyone barmy enough to buy a 70's classic from an internet Japanese auction site or similar is likely to regret it.
> 
> The best specialist dealer / restorer / modifier in Japan for these and Fairlady Z classics:
> RockyAuto - µì¼Ö¡¦Ì¾¼Ö(¥Ï¥³¥¹¥«¡¦¥±¥ó¥á¥ê¡¦¥Õ¥§¥¢¥ì¥Ç¥£¡¼Z¡¦GT-R)¤ÎÀìÌçÅ¹ ¥í¥Ã¥*¡¼¥ª¡¼¥È


How very true


----------



## Bandit (Jul 2, 2004)

God there are some stunning examples on that site Miguel :bowdown1::bowdown1:

One day i will buy one of these and restore it to its former glory :smokin:


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Miguel - Newera said:


> The best specialist dealer / restorer / modifier in Japan for these and Fairlady Z classics:
> RockyAuto - µì¼Ö¡¦Ì¾¼Ö(¥Ï¥³¥¹¥«¡¦¥±¥ó¥á¥ê¡¦¥Õ¥§¥¢¥ì¥Ç¥£¡¼Z¡¦GT-R)¤ÎÀìÌçÅ¹ ¥í¥Ã¥*¡¼¥ª¡¼¥È



I wouldn't touch any of Rocky Autos' stock with a bargepole. 

The _best_ way to buy one of these cars is to buy from a private seller. And only after you have spent some time thoroughly researching - and understanding - the different models and variants, and their original specs.


----------



## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

There are some lovely old cars on that site mate
Have a look at these clips.
Japanese Nostalgic Car - Video

YouTube - Japanese Nostalgic Car

Miguel am I right in thinking these are on another level regarding expense ?
cheers cokey


----------



## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)

Rocky Auto is good, but only when it comes to the cars he has touched and restored himself. Basicly classic car sales is not the same thing as young used car sales.

You start restoring and fixing with the customer and with the customers budget, so many cars at Rocky are actually crap, as it is understandable that he won't retore his entire stock first, and then die because he can't sell it.

The best restored classic cars in japan are the ones, that have been restored by a single very talented garage (not need to be a classic car tuner), for a single customer that had the budget for a real restoration. Thought all custom cars and very rare.

I was looking personaly in the Hakosuka thing, but considering my ideas, it would simply explode my budget.

Rocky Auto has some very nice RB engined classic skylines, thought again, I doupt that they handle very nice or are efficent with the extra power (basicly a Hakosuka with over 200HP and without full welded chassis and roll cage is not worth the hype, as these cars have never been designed for such power. )

I think we should have a classic skyline section on this forum, as nostalgia and heritage is always a good thing to discuss and certainly is there still information to share about these classic cars on the english car related web.:thumbsup:


----------



## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)

The car I am after is owned by a japanese man in 60. from Gunma (if I am right) . .it's the black one on the pics::bowdown1:


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

jmotors said:


> Rocky Auto is good, but only when it comes to the cars he has touched and restored himself. Basicly classic car sales is not the same thing as young used car sales.
> 
> You start restoring and fixing with the customer and with the customers budget, so many cars at Rocky are actually crap, as it is understandable that he won't retore his entire stock first, and then die because he can't sell it.
> 
> ...



A classic section would be great, I've been looking for an early Hakosuka for a while now. To me the body restoration is the most importmant part to me. If someone can find me one (a good clone) Im ready to buy.


----------



## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)

davew said:


> A classic section would be great, I've been looking for an early Hakosuka for a while now. To me the body restoration is the most importmant part to me. If someone can find me one (a good clone) Im ready to buy.


Hi mate, actually your request is the problem in it self.
Basicly a "good "and very recent restoration of a real Hakosuka with S20 engine is death for everyone . .as you can have a Spec-V plus a Fairlady for the same price.:nervous:
A welded chassis and caged C10 series Skyline will also explode most budgets, as the reason for a welded chassis is most of the time an engine swap and complete expensive custome car.

But you can allready have C10 series Skylines with the Fairlady L20 engines inside, fixed rust for about 2.000.000Yen . .there are of course more cheaper cars on the market, but that's for exemple too risky for me to sell, as the customer will call me on the first day he drives the car and tells me how crappy it handles and feels.

Classic cars can be nightmares . . . . 300000000km R32GTRs look like the most reliable things against most C10s out there . .:runaway::chuckle:


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

That black one is stunning!

So you reckon 2m yen is the budget for a good KGC10?

Whats the most common engine conversion for it? I seen some nice ones on yahoo japans auction site too. I've seen RB25 conversions in the KGC10's. How do you rate them conversions J motors?


----------



## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

jmotors said:


> Hi mate, actually your request is the problem in it self.
> Basicly a "good "and very recent restoration of a real Hakosuka with S20 engine is death for everyone . .as you can have a Spec-V plus a Fairlady for the same price.:nervous:
> A welded chassis and caged C10 series Skyline will also explode most budgets, as the reason for a welded chassis is most of the time an engine swap and complete expensive custome car.
> 
> ...


Thanks Aichi.
Looks like I should just concentrate on putting the other 299955000 km's on my "Classic" R32GTR. 
and build the Fujimi 03567 1/24 kit santa brought me, which started my search for info.
Are the extended arches on the black one std or aftermarket ?
cheers cokey


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

jmotors said:


> Rocky Auto is good, but only when it comes to the cars he has touched and restored himself.
> ..........
> 
> Rocky Auto has some very nice RB engined classic skylines, thought again, I doupt that they handle very nice or are efficent with the extra power........


No, sorry - I don't agree. Many of the RB-swapped early cars at Rocky Auto are actually the _worst_ of what they sell. 

The candidates that are chosen for such conversions are often the nastiest on the market, and are chosen simply because they are cheap. You will not find too many really clean original bodies being RB-swapped and "restored" for commercial sale because really _good_ base cars are too expensive.

Mechanically ( S20 engined models excepted ), the cars are actually quite simple and easy to work on. Drivetrain, electrical, suspension, steering and brake parts can be found relatively easily and are not too expensive in the grand scheme of things, and L-series engined examples are easy to tune and look after. Things start getting much harder when you need soft trim, glass, certain rubber parts and brightwork. Body panels can be super expensive and tricky to fit ( like a full rear quarter on a 2HT C10 for example ) and some body sections are NLA.

But by far and away the most crucial part is the bodyshell itself, and being over 35 years old most of them have been through countless owners, will have been through the lowest depths of value ( and back out the other side again ), and will have had knocks and repairs, and suffered half-hearted 'restorations' that did more harm than good. 

There _are_ lots of really nice ones in Japan, but 99% of prospective buyers from _outside_ Japan tend to look at the sector that is the lowest priced, believing they will get something that - with a little work - will be as good as their dreams. The reality is that they would almost always be better off spending _more_ money than they had hoped or had budgeted for. 

And right now is really _not_ the optimum time to be spending GBP in Japan on old cars that you don't actually know all that much about, and have not seen in the metal.


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

Hi PS30

How much a budget do you feel will get a vgood example car? I dont think i'll ever be able to afford a KPGC, so i'll have to plump with a KGC when the times right.

Where abouts did you source your car? Where do you source your parts etc?

You seem to know your stuff about these legendary cars. I'd like to pick your brain if its ok

I cant believe theres a Hakosuka up the road in London! Kills me knowing i've never seen it! Do you attend any events/car shows?

Dean j


----------



## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks PS30 for the insight.

I have to admit that I refreined to comment on Rocky as I get many customer requests for classic cars that are sold by them. I have never and will probably never source out a car to one of my customers from them, as their business is too small and not professional enough to provide the standard of classic cars we aim for thought.

You are right with the conversions from Rocky, but I looked at the howl situation from the bottom of what is available . . . Rocky at least had managed to get ride of the rust issues on the swapped cars I have seen. (which I believe hasn't been the case on most of their swapps, as you say).

Still it is very hard to find a C10 under 2.000.000Yen on the market that has been cared or restored partialy with an L20 engine, mission and orginal suspension, that can still pass a shakken in japan.

Shakken is the car registration in japan and it is carried out by the garages and dealers who have a shakken liscence. The problem with classic cars is that the garage who does the shakken and says the car is OK, will in best case also provide the insurance for the customer. So you can't really make the customer a favor and look over some nasty problems on thoses cars, as you will be doomed after, if the car is involved in a crash. This means that the customer can:
a) Pay a lot of cash to repair or restore the issues on the car and pass the shakken at your company.
b) search for a Shakken garage that gives the car a go, without those repairs.

Most of the running C10 s won't pass a shakken anyways , as the garage who issued the papers just closed the eyes in order to get a customer, who probably will shakken, service his normal car as well at that garage after.


Jmotors is allways looking in to private owned cars, as we know many japanese spors car owners trough our partners personaly and can arrange a deal with them for an oversea customer, if they are willing to sell. This is a good way to know the cars history, restoration history and the people involved on the cars works.

PS30 would you actually recommand sub 2.000.000Yen C10s with an L20 engine with medium problems like rust, electronics, engine, mision, to customers who can't fix the issues them selves and don't have a clue about classic cars in general(mechanics)? The spare parts supplies oversea are not really big and many of my customers have issues to find parts aferwards. (EU, Russia)

Regards

Chris


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

dean j said:


> How much a budget do you feel will get a vgood example car? I dont think i'll ever be able to afford a KPGC, so i'll have to plump with a KGC when the times right.


The problem with asking me a question like that is that I don't really know what kind of car you have in mind. The average KGC10 with its original L20 SOHC 12 valve engine is not exactly a high performance car, and although it was capable enough in-period it will seem slow today - especially if you are coming from a 'modern' R32 / R33 model. You are more likely to have a more modified car in mind.

Tuned L20s are very common, but within a short time you'd probably want more - so a car that has already had a tuned L28 swap is probably going to be a more sensible choice. There are lots of these ( and L-series engine tuning is no problem, as just about everything has been done to these over the years and parts are still readily available ) but they tend to be slightly more expensive than L20-engined versions if they are done right and their paperwork is in order. Of course, increasing engine power starts of that domino effect of needing to uprate the rest of the car to suit, and transmission, diff, brakes and suspension / steering will need attention. A _good_ car will have had all these points looked after, and the car will be a good _package_ that performs well all-round. There are plenty that do not.

You'd need to look at these cars on a case-by-case basis to get the true picture, and I'm reluctant to generalise, but just for the sake of discussion I'd urge you to aim at L28-engined cars with good solid bodies that are being sold by _private_ sellers - preferably club members ( and not 'kids' ) - at somewhere between 2.5 and 3 million JPY. Having said that, at that kind of price level you might even find a good one at one of the _smaller_, more _specialist_ old car dealers in Japan. You would want one that _is_ actually in stock with the dealer, rather than the "stock" they advertise on their websites that are nothing more than networked linkups with other dealers all over Japan

Actually, you'd be well advised to take a short holiday in Japan and take in a couple of shows / swapmeets / club gatherings, so that you can personally look at as many cars as possible and get as broad a view as possible of what is 'average. I can't imagine anyone buying a car like this without having seen some in the metal, to get an idea of their size, build quality, ergonomics, dynamics etc etc. I've had some people mention that my KPGC10 is _smaller_ than they expected, and others say that it is much _bigger_ than they expected - which illustrates the differences in perception from pictures. Always bear in mind that it is a _Sixties_ designed car too. It has a steering _box_, not a rack. Standard rear brakes are aluminium-finned _drums_...... 



dean j said:


> Where abouts did you source your car? Where do you source your parts etc?


My KPGC10 was a personal gift from a very generous friend, so it does not really count in this discussion. If I hadn't have been given it I would most likely _never_ have bought one due to the high sale values of genuine GT-R models. I don't really have a problem finding 95% of parts I need or might need ( but finding the money to pay for them is another problem altogether ) and there are plenty of specialists in Japan that stock original parts, and make repro parts. It is not difficult to build up a good rapport with a Japanese specialist once you have given them your credit card details........ 



dean j said:


> You seem to know your stuff about these legendary cars. I'd like to pick your brain if its ok


Not much brain left to pick, but you're welcome to PM me with your e-mail address if you are honestly serious about getting a C10-series Skyline. Hopefully I can give some _realistic_ advice, or at the very least some data on the original cars that might be useful...... 



dean j said:


> I cant believe theres a Hakosuka up the road in London! Kills me knowing i've never seen it! Do you attend any events/car shows?


I've done a couple of shows and track events in the UK, but as the car is not road legal ( it was built as a club racer / track day car ) and I don't feel very motivated to road-legalise it, it makes it a bit more difficult to use. You'd be welcome to see it, but there's not really all that much point in just _looking_ at it ( the whole _point_ of the C10 and C11 GT-R models is the engine and drivetrain, really ) and many of the things that you'd want to see on a typical road-going KGC10 like you'd want to buy are not present on it anyway....... Maybe you'd be better to see it at an event, when it is moving around under it's own steam?


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

PS30-SB said:


> I wouldn't touch any of Rocky Autos' stock with a bargepole.
> 
> The _best_ way to buy one of these cars is to buy from a private seller. And only after you have spent some time thoroughly researching - and understanding - the different models and variants, and their original specs.


PS30-SB, I can totally respect your knowledge - I'm sure you know more about these than anybody else in UK.

A few questions if I may:

Can you elaborate on why you say this about Rocky Auto? Although I haven't personally been to their premises I've read countless Japanese magazines about the cars they create and the pictures sure look like high quality work. 

OK, I realise they're often bastardising cars by fitting later model engines like RB25's on throttle bodies, T/Tb RB26's etc. but the end result certainly looks good!

Would you have the same opinion of C&Y SPORTS www.starroad.co.jp www.maruman-motors.com (These are all companies that have made some stunning Hakosuka modified cars). 

Is it the fact they're changing original spec of cars (meaning there are less original ones remaining) that bothers you? -If so, I guess that's a very valid point...

AFIK only a very small proportion of private owners sell directly in Japan. The largest source of cars sold privately is Yahoo! and the offerings there are miniscule in the scheme of things. There are rarely any nice Hakosuka's for sale there - and if they're on Yahoo quality is unlikely - as otherwise they'd fetch considerably more at specialist dealers. So where else do private sellers of these advertise please?

Interested to know more... Cheers for your thoughts!

[EDIT] BTW, a few years back we were on a GTROC drive on Izu Skyline and came across a stunning L28 engined Hakosuka driven by an older guy. Turned out it was his second project. I believe DCD went on to shoot it sometime, so it may be on his blog... Hyrev also has some pics I think.


----------



## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks PS30 for the details

Miguel I think that you won't find a ressource with hundreds of private sales of any car in japan . Yahoo auction japan is a unique phenomena and most peeps trading there are bad guys. 

Japan doesn't have any private car sales culture, hence why the auctions exist, it's a streight consequence from a dealers only trading market.

The problem I have with many of my customers, some of them on this register will remember, is the fact that it can take a year in order to find the right car and that car being a C10 or other classic makes it even more difficult. So most peeps change their mind and go for something else.

Prices are relative too.
Any exporter on carviewtrade.com will find you 50 C10s on the first request, and if you gamble right you might have a tiny chance to get a car that was worth the price you payed.
On the other side what options do oversea customers have to purchase (in our case) a Hakosuka that works and fits their needs?

1) Go to japan, make contact with dealers and clubs first (preferably speak japanese), find the car you want, buy your car, export it by your self. . .This would be the cheapest and safest way. 

2) Look japanese classic car dealer stocks and find someone to buy the car for you. and preferably export it for you as well . .as most peeps don't want to come to japan, or simply can't.

3) Order a car from your local importer in your country, at least like this you have a contract that should include the quality and standard of the car they will buy for you.

4) Ask us or other similar traders to look out for months/years in order to find the right car for you. Thought won't we and our friends in the business as well, travel howl japan to inspect cars for each email we get from somebody who might,maybe, perheaps purchase a Hakosuka in the next 100years.

It's a difficult business.

@Miguel

My partner Act-R knows the cars from Rocky and Suzukisan the boss has sold multiple Hakosukas (RB engined, restored and original S20s).
Rockyauto tuned (RBengine) cars are not worth what they ask for, as all their cars have been tuned with a minimum of budget. Also do their cars have reliability issues with the new parts on the cars (power steering not working, vibrations in and around the gearbox, weight issues on handling do to the heavier RB engines . . . ex . . . 

I have personaly asked a "mitsumori" for my own Hakosuka project at various tuners. This would have included an N/A RB26 swap, R34 power steering,Getrag mission, no Attesa thought (I wish), welded and anti-rust treated shell with welded cage, a complete modern suspension systhem, R34 GTR aircon ex . . . .so first there wasn't anybody who could or wanted to attempt the challenge, then I got one offer for 9.000.000Yen.:shy:
I know Suzuki-san would do some great works on a C10 if I would ask him, but also he says that it is a lost game if you don't have enough budget or time for the stuff ( I wanted to be done), done right!!:nervous:
That's probably why I wouldn't buy a Rocky swapped engine Hakosuka or even ask Rocky to tune one to my spec.

Actualy have you driven a normal C10 with the L20 engine allready Miguel? Try one, one day and you quick get frustrated with the 1960s heavy steering, complete lack of power and bad handling 
It's more like a collector then an everyday drive and you have to be in love with 1960s standards . .which most peeps are not considering.

Also I would recomand any body who has never driven such old cars to look out for a S30 Fairlady (1970 sepc) and drive one . . . then just imagine that a normal C10 is much worse to drive then that.


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

jmotors said:


> Miguel I think that you won't find a ressource with hundreds of private sales of any car in japan .
> 
> Japan doesn't have any private car sales culture, hence why the auctions exist, it's a streight consequence from a dealers only trading market.


Wow, really....?


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

Miguel - Newera said:


> Can you elaborate on why you say this about Rocky Auto? Although I haven't personally been to their premises I've read countless Japanese magazines about the cars they create and the pictures sure look like high quality work.
> 
> OK, I realise they're often bastardising cars by fitting later model engines like RB25's on throttle bodies, T/Tb RB26's etc. but the end result certainly looks good!


I've been looking at Rocky Auto cars for many years in person ( visiting their premises, and also seeing their cars at shows and meets ) and found that the RB-swapped cars in particular were usually based on cars that were not suitable for a more 'trad' restoration or retro-modding. In some cases they had used bodyshells that had rotted so badly that the roof was no longer connected to the gutters, and the window rubbers were sitting on fresh air rather than metal. Such rust damage can be expertly rectified of course ( even if the result is actually a patchwork quilt covered by lead and paint ) but RA had not even done this well enough to disguise it. Rubbish. I won't go into the swapped identities and faked-up original model changes ( 'P' prefixed shatai bangos on obviously non-'P' bodies etc ), but suffice to say that I don't really think all that much of some of their work. That's not to say that they _can't_ do good work; Much of the time they simply cut their cloth to suit the pockets of their customers. The cars that the staff have built for themselves seem to be much better......

Let me make it clear that I have NO problem whatsoever with modified cars, customised cars, updated cars, "bastardised" or whatever you want call them. I grew up with modified cars in the family and anybody can do what they like as far as I'm concerned, but I believe it has to be done with sound engineering and - possibly something that you either have or have not got - _good taste_. Beauty is, however, in the eye of the beholder. 



Miguel - Newera said:


> Would you have the same opinion of C&Y SPORTS ‹ŒŽÔ”Ì”„�EƒŒƒXƒgƒA�yƒXƒ^�[ƒ��[ƒh�zƒnƒRƒXƒJ�E”*ƒXƒJ�EƒPƒ“ƒ�ƒŠ�EƒWƒƒƒpƒ“�ES30�EƒXƒJƒCƒ‰ƒCƒ“�EƒtƒFƒAƒŒƒfƒBZ�EGTR�EƒŒƒXƒgƒA�E‹ŒŽÔ www.maruman-motors.com (These are all companies that have made some stunning Hakosuka modified cars).


I'm familiar with Star Road ( I have visited their shop, although some years ago now ) but I'm not familiar with the others - so I can't comment. Having said that, I'm sure they can turn out very very good work. I was simply offering an alternate - and hopefully informed - view of Rocky Auto in my first post on this thread. I found it hard to see them being put forward as one of the "best" when I personally find them nothing of the sort. They have a very high profile in the Japanese press, and they get a lot of 'advertorial' given to them to accompany their advertisements, so their image is perhaps a little higher than it otherwise merits. For what it's worth, I don't know _any_ 'old school' car people in Japan who really rate them - but maybe I'm talking to the wrong people?

Swaps of RB engines into Japanese 'classics' are nothing new of course, and Rocky Auto certainly didn't pioneer it. I remember back in the early Nineties Hiro Toyoda of HKS showing me pics of his RB-transplanted S30-series Fairlady......



Miguel - Newera said:


> AFIK only a very small proportion of private owners sell directly in Japan. The largest source of cars sold privately is Yahoo! and the offerings there are miniscule in the scheme of things. There are rarely any nice Hakosuka's for sale there - and if they're on Yahoo quality is unlikely - as otherwise they'd fetch considerably more at specialist dealers. So where else do private sellers of these advertise please?


Private sales of what I would class as some of the better cars tend to happen within club memberships, or person-to-person. If you are 'outside' this world it can be difficult to get a foot in the door. Over just the last few months I have been privy to some transactions that made my jaw drop open ( not to mention turning green with envy ) and you will not have seen these cars on the open market. But there _are_ old-fashioned person-to-person small ads in the back of specialist press, such as Nostalgic Hero, Old Timer and Auto Works for example. 

If anyone here is _really_ interested in buying a top-level car ( and by _really_ interested, I mean enough to spend upwards of 2.5 million JPY on a car, and willing to travel to Japan to inspect it ) I would put forth the names of a couple of private dealers who do not advertise. But I think they'd be better advised to wait a few months and see what the exchange rate does before getting too serious. 

But by far the _biggest_, most important point I want to make is that you need to take each single 'classic' car - no matter whether it is a private sale, a dealer sale or even an auction sale - on a *case-by case basis*. Each car has it's own tale to tell, and - not surprisingly - will have had a different history and set of circumstances from the next. You don't buy cars like these by asking about the mileage.......... 



jmotors said:


> Japan doesn't have any private car sales culture.......


That reminds me of something that I remember Jeremy Clarkson saying once: _"There are *no* old cars in Japan........"_. Plenty of people have quoted that to me over the years, and they seem to believe it. 

I know what you mean about private sale culture and the structure of buy-new-car-trade-in-old-car, but reports of the death of private sales in Japan are premature. I also know what you _mean_ about Yahoo auctions, but I struggle to come to terms with the idea that most of the people that sell on it are "bad guys". I would not buy a _car_ on Yahoo Japan unless it was cheap enough to make the gamble worthwhile, but I feel the same way about ebay. I have bought ( and sold ) parts on both - so I'm not sure what that says about the people using such devices as a means to an end. I've bought used cars from dealers and been disappointed too, so I suspect it's all just part of the same thing in the end.......


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

jmotors said:


> Also I would recomand any body who has never driven such old cars to look out for a S30 Fairlady (1970 sepc) and drive one . . . then just imagine that a normal C10 is much worse to drive then that.


Yes, but _what model_ of S30-series Fairlady Z? There's a whole _world_ of difference between a regular gas low-compression specced, wide ratio four-speed S30-S model and a high-comp, close ratio five-speed, 4.44 LSD-diffed, S20-engined PS30 model. 

Engine power aside, a nice tight bodyshelled example of either with all fresh bushings, and springs and dampers in as-new condition, will be a nice enough drive. The 432 will be the _much_ better package of the two though, and I can recommend a well sorted one ( or an Export RHD spec '240Z' ) to anyone. A well sorted C10-series Skyline will be a pretty good drive too ( as long as you don't think the drag strip is it's home ) and you tune into a different set of references when you drive a nice old car anyway.

It's all about _flavour_..........


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

This is a great read, and PS30. Thanks fo replying to my Q's.

I know how budgets determine the quality of car you get, and maybe in 2007 when the exchange was £4,200 to 1m yen, my budget woulf of been around the 3m yen mark (12.5k ish), but at the rates now, i'd get a dog for that money.

I remember looking through the Yahoo auction site and spotting some nice KGC10's. Kuremberi syotoken (or something like that) were selling them, and they looked like good cars. They had some nice 110 series cars too!

I never bought my 32 spare of the moment. I read and looked into them for 4/5 months till i found mine, and It would take much longer to find the right 10 series skyline, so if theres any sites for the cars and parts anyone has which might be of interest, i'd love to have a butchers at them.

One thing i dont know how to do, is how to get google translator on my computer for when i visit these sites all written in Japanese.

Anyone know how to do that?


----------



## bigkev (Mar 2, 2008)

Wow. :clap: :clap: :clap:

firstly id like to thank cokey for starting this thread.

secondly id like to thank PS30-SB for his VERY honest and insightful input

i really do think that a historic or classic section is a really really good idea as there is a wealh of knowledge out there on these cars that most of us have no clue about. 

i personally am a massive fan of kpgc10s (though only based on pictures and literature). i would really love the chance to be a part of restoring and working on such a car, and i would happily abandon my currrent project if i could source a decent and respectable example. help via this forum on more accurate cost involved, would be very usefully and appreciated. and is something that i will enquire in more depth about in the near future. 

Please please please start a historic car thread!!

THIS THREAD IS GONNA BE BAD FOR MY HEALTH I CAN TELL. 

many thanks everyone

kev


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

lets get some sexy KPGC10 pictures up:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

Its gonna be bad for my bank balance Kev! lol

Just need to wait for the pound to get its old strength back. I want a finished example, and as Kev said, i'd happily sell the 32 for one, only if i have somewhere to keep it.

I second putting up some pictures!


----------



## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

PS30-SB said:


> I've been looking at Rocky Auto cars for many years in person. I won't go into the swapped identities and faked-up original model changes ( 'P' prefixed shatai bangos on obviously non-'P' bodies etc ), but suffice to say that I don't really think all that much of some of their work. That's not to say that they _can't_ do good work; Much of the time they simply cut their cloth to suit the pockets of their customers. The cars that the staff have built for themselves seem to be much better......
> I was simply offering an alternate - and hopefully informed - view of Rocky Auto in my first post on this thread. I found it hard to see them being put forward as one of the "best" when I personally find them nothing of the sort. They have a very high profile in the Japanese press, and they get a lot of 'advertorial' given to them to accompany their advertisements, so their image is perhaps a little higher than it otherwise merits.
> 
> Private sales of what I would class as some of the better cars tend to happen within club memberships, or person-to-person. If you are 'outside' this world it can be difficult to get a foot in the door. Over just the last few months I have been privy to some transactions that made my jaw drop open ( not to mention turning green with envy ) and you will not have seen these cars on the open market. But there _are_ old-fashioned person-to-person small ads in the back of specialist press, such as Nostalgic Hero, Old Timer and Auto Works for example.
> ...


PS30-SB, thanks for the honest feedback on Rocky Auto. I had no idea some of their work was so questionable. Well, my opinion of them gleaned from reading mags here is now definitely not as good, ha! My apologies to all for recommending them. 

Very interesting what you say about how private sellers advertise in the back of these magazines. I imagine club memberships are more geared to existing owners such as yourself or people you may know who already own Hakosukas. For sure, some Japanese people care more in whose hands their car will end up than how much money it might fetch. Certainly makes more sense now - thanks for explaining.

I agree with your thoughts on Yahoo Auctions and would add that a good knowledge of Japanese language & reading are essential to help avoid making costly mistakes. Very few cars are really any good - although we did buy a handful of nice cars last year from sellers as far afield as Kyoto. It definitely requires travel & checking vehicles properly before completion of transactions. I doubt we'd find a good Hakosuka there though.. 

If you're ever in the area of Gotemba / Fuji Speedway, you'd be most welcome to drop in. Would be nice to meet you in person someday. :thumbsup:


----------



## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

This is becoming a particularly good thread.
I didnt realise there was so much interest in these.

Here is some more info / pics I found.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAXGuD_f3Kw

hakosuka/KPGC10 nissan - Google Search


Kpgc10 — Blogs, Pictures, and more on WordPress

Hakosuka — Blogs, Pictures, and more on WordPress
anybody got anything more to add ?
cokey


----------



## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

Specially for Dave. 

The KPGC10 Skyline Picture Thread - Skyline Owners Club - The Nissan Skyline Enthusiast Community

cokey


----------



## jmotors (Sep 22, 2008)




----------



## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

More eye candy.

Auto Otaku: Car and Life: Coverage: Nissan Motorsports Exhibition 2008

cokey


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

BTTT!

Lets not lose this thread. Bit of a change from the same old 32/3/4's we see every day


----------



## tokes (Jul 16, 2006)

Someday I'd love to own a KPGC10 with a nice N/A RB26. Too much power seems like a waste in these cars. But I bet an RB26 with some big 280 cams and a ported head with high compression could make 240-250 HP and sound beautiful. To be different I'd take the Getrag V160 out of a JZA80, mate it up with the bellousing from a BNR34 so I can have a RWD 6-speed, then have myself a nice weekend cruiser and win a lot of car shows


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

cokey said:


> Found this too,
> 
> Japanese Nostalgic Car :: View topic - Project Hakosuka Build Thread
> 
> ...


^ that happens to be my car  

'Happy to help out with any info that I can...(although I do defer to PS30-SB, he is far better informed than I am).


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

yes, i've just subscribed to that magazine......old skool is sweet. But dont forget these things will drive like bags of shite





Babalouie said:


> ^ that happens to be my car
> 
> 'Happy to help out with any info that I can...(although I do defer to PS30-SB, he is far better informed than I am).


----------



## bigkev (Mar 2, 2008)

WOW, welcome to the forum kev.

i have read that entire build thread from start to end, and i would say that it is by far the most interesting informative and realistic rebuild i have ever read about. if i ever buy one of these you will be my new best friend!!

kev


----------



## PS30-SB (Jun 13, 2003)

davew said:


> But dont forget these things will drive like bags of shite


If ( and it's a big _if_ at this point ) _you_ ever get a C10-series Skyline, and it drives _".....like a bag of shite....."_, it will most likely indicate that you didn't spend enough money buying it....... 




And welcome 'Babalouie' :thumbsup:


----------



## davew (Apr 28, 2003)

PS30-SB said:


> If ( and it's a big _if_ at this point ) _you_ ever get a C10-series Skyline, and it drives _".....like a bag of shite....."_, it will most likely indicate that you didn't spend enough money buying it.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No offence meant, perhaps it was taken out of context. What i should have expressed was that people shouldnt compare these cars with the usual more modern GTR with its luxury appoinments.

I'll let you know soon enough if i havent spent enough


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

davew said:


> No offence meant, perhaps it was taken out of context. What i should have expressed was that people shouldnt compare these cars with the usual more modern GTR with its luxury appoinments.


Believe me, I know all about this  My Skyline shares a garage with a modern 6spd V8 sedan and there is quite frankly no objective measurement by which the Skyline is even remotely as good. But that's not what it's about, is it 



davew said:


> I'll let you know soon enough if i havent spent enough


There are still pitfalls though, I went into this with my eyes open and thought I had a realistic budget to get a good car (ie within the 2.5~3mil range) and well...the rest is history 

I also agree with PS30 in that some of the flashier classic car dealers have cars which press all the right buttons sex-appeal-wise but were shocking lashups when you looked up close...


----------



## dean j (Jan 28, 2007)

Babalouie. I'm so jealous of your motor mate!

Is there any good sources other than yahoo auctions and rocky auto etc etc? I mean like car clubs and stuff like that


----------



## Babalouie (Feb 18, 2009)

dean j said:


> Babalouie. I'm so jealous of your motor mate!
> 
> Is there any good sources other than yahoo auctions and rocky auto etc etc? I mean like car clubs and stuff like that


Well that's the thing, mate, if you were to ask me where's the best place to get a good car, I wouldn't know!  I went to a well known, hi-profile classic car dealer, was told that it had been extensively restored and had "nothing to spend", I also got the car professionally inspected, was told that it was in fine order with "no rust" and well...er...unless they sent me a completely different car by mistake I have to conclude that some porkie pies were told :lol:

I notice that by and large cars on Yahoo Auctions can appear to be a bit more towards the bottom of the range in terms of condition. Rocky Auto...well um...let's say I would agree with some of the comments said about their stock in this thread, and you can PM me for pics if you need further comment on the subject.

If you want to have a decent idea of what's out there, a good place to start is: Goo-net:Here you can retrieve the comprehensive information on used cars

It'll show a huge number of cars available at dealers. Follow your nose, you'll work it out. But if I were to do it all over again, I would be sorely tempted to fly to Japan and check the car out and have a bit of a holiday at the same time. I did everything I thought was necessary to avoid getting sold a pup (I even paid for someone to take hundreds of pics of the car for me before purchase) but there you have it...a year later, my "no more to spend" car is still being fettled and isn't really in a properly driveable condition 

Caveat emptor, mates


----------

