# Just a warning before buying a used GTR !



## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Want to share my story with you so no one slips up when buying a used GTR. 

I bought my car at the start of november 2011 from WLMG slough, At the time of seeing the car it was everything i want 2009 (59) DMG, Black edition, Low miles 9000 and in great condition But and it was a big but its had missed its 18 months service the gearbox oil change, Because it had only done 800 mile between services and the then owner thought he was wasting his money on another service. Which put me off a little. On speaking to the sale man he said that the warrenty would not be a problem and that nissan would still stand by the 3 years. But not being happy with just his word i asked if he would write me a letter stating this for my piece of mind. He said yes no problem so i went ahead and bought the car.

On the day of picking the car up i went with my wife and daughter to get the car sorted ever thing out ,Trade in,Paper work, Ect. and got in the car to drive away and just before a did i thought what about the letter i want to cover me if anything happens. With everything that was going on i don't know if the dealer had forgot to giving me the letter or try'd to bypass it. Anyway i got out of the car and went and asked for it. no letter had been made out so the MD of the dealership sat and wrote one out and give it to me.

So the car sat on the drive over the winter i went out everything 2-3 weeks and drove around for about 20 mins just so the battery would not go flat and in April i booked the car into middlehurst for the 30 months service which is only a small one and i ask i think it was john but not to sure, should i get the gearbox oil changed as it had not been done on the 18 months service, Which he said you are going to have a big one at the end of the 3 years (36 months) so i would just wait till then. So i tuck his advise.

Car went for service and came back fine. I drove around in it for about a week no problems. Then i got up on my daughters birthday to go for a day out drove the car to the end of the road about 500m and a warning light came on and winding noise sounded like it was coming from the back then the car went into limp home mode, So i turned round drove it back onto the drive and rung middlehurst to book it in, The RAC collected the car the next day this was about 2 weeks ago. Last Monday Linda from middlehurst rung me up and ask if i'd keeped the service up knowing that the car had missed the 18 months has its all on recorded, Data ,whatever and i guess what was coming next but before she said anything i told her about the letter i had got and she said can you send it me special delivery as nissan are coming out to look at your car. So i posted a copy of it yesterday and i have just rung her up to see if she had received it. Which she replied yes and then went on to say that the car is going to need a new gearbox.

My point is i think without the letter i think nissan would have said that because of the missed service that i would not be covered as we all know that a new gearbox is going to be very expensive. So please any one buying a used GTR with missing service's please make sure you are covered as my car has only done 10,500 miles.

Can't bare to thing what i would have done if i did not have the letter and had to stand to a new gearbox.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

two things.

1. What is wrong with the gearbox that it needs replacement as I bet it's a circlip change which would be sub £2k at litchfields.

and

2. If you bought it from an HPC dealer, why didn't they do the gearbox service before you bought it to bring it up to date?


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## ameen (Mar 8, 2012)

That was a smart move mate.. Mines is a 59 I'n black just coming up for 9k, that I will be picking up on fri. Gonna triple check that warranty and prob get it reneuid at litchfields onces they release full details. Thanks for the heads up though.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> two things.
> 
> 1. What is wrong with the gearbox that it needs replacement as I bet it's a circlip change which would be sub £2k at litchfields.
> 
> ...


Hi.

1) If you had heard the noise i think you would have said it was not the circlip and john from middlehurst said something last week about having the sump off and something about a piston, Which is very new to me a gearbox having a pistons. Is this wright ?

2) When i collected the car its had its 24 months £800 service done by WLMG, Which did not involve the gearbox oil change which i thought was ok at the time, But some one along the line is going to be out of pocket just so glad its not me.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

I'd just like to add when the RAC came to collect it. The car would not move in any gear, So i don't think the circlip would cause this would it ?


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

think the circlip would actually cause it to lose all drive but it would have nothing to do with pistons.

Twin clutch gearboxes do have pistons inside actuators. Think of them like brakes which have master and slave cylinders and clamp a disk. In the case of the gearbox, the disk they clamp is a set of wet clutch plates.

There are two sets of plates in the box, one associated with 1 3 5 and the other with 2 4 and 6. Don't ask me about reverse!!


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

I know its a bit of a hard question to anwser but as anyboby had a new gearbox and what the time scale i'm looking at. Does the box have to be imported from japan ? or do they stock them in the uk ?. Also would it be a new current box or are they different over the models ?


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## ke11th (Apr 12, 2012)

Interesting post considering the GTR I have put a deposit on which I pick up on the 1st June has had a replacement gearbox last year under warranty. 

The car is an 09 with 21000 miles. Can an owner confirm how many services it should have had? The car is still under warranty till August this year.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

how long is a piece of string?

I'd imagine it would take quite a while, at least a month but that might be based on stories from when there cars were new to the country. There are only minute differences hardware wise between the different age boxes. The main thing that changed was the control software but that won't change unless you have it remapped by cobb or ecutek which will likely void your gearbox warranty. I suspect you won't be the type to risk that in the future.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

ke11th said:


> Interesting post considering the GTR I have put a deposit on which I pick up on the 1st June has had a replacement gearbox last year under warranty.
> 
> The car is an 09 with 21000 miles. Can an owner confirm how many services it should have had? The car is still under warranty till August this year.


Hi. Its should have had 

1) 1200 miles
2) 6000 miles or 6 months
3) 12000 miles or 12 months
4) 18000 miles or 18 months
5) 24000 miles or 24 months
6) 30000 miles or 30 months
7) 36000 miles or 36 months. Which it will not have had yet.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

ke11th said:


> Interesting post considering the GTR I have put a deposit on which I pick up on the 1st June has had a replacement gearbox last year under warranty.
> 
> The car is an 09 with 21000 miles. Can an owner confirm how many services it should have had? The car is still under warranty till August this year.


Should have had 5 services, last one in feb or thereabouts.

1 gearbox oil change.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> how long is a piece of string?
> 
> I'd imagine it would take quite a while, at least a month but that might be based on stories from when there cars were new to the country. There are only minute differences hardware wise between the different age boxes. The main thing that changed was the control software but that won't change unless you have it remapped by cobb or ecutek which will likely void your gearbox warranty. I suspect you won't be the type to risk that in the future.


Thanks i know its impossible to put a time scale on it but i thought if i could get a round about time it would help me make my mind up to get a hire car off them because i was going to try and wait and share the wife car but looks like i'm going to need one. Your right no cobb or ecutek for me, Unless i go to Lichfield for the extended warranty and then i may consider it.


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## andyg (Apr 1, 2012)

i know all about the servicing schedule but cant get my head around an my09 car with little mileage on lets say 10k and an my09 car with 32k on it has had the same amount of servicing???? in the same period.
think the common sense answer would have been to base it on mileage not timescale,unless you track the car.
and we all know nhpc,s have to get their investment back somehow they have made.
that said we all know the score when getting the r35 end of.
moan over.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

But which '09 gets more wear; the 5k weekend toy or the 30k motorway commuter?


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

andyg said:


> i know all about the servicing schedule but cant get my head around an my09 car with little mileage on lets say 10k and an my09 car with 32k on it has had the same amount of servicing???? in the same period.
> think the common sense answer would have been to base it on mileage not timescale,unless you track the car.
> and we all know nhpc,s have to get their investment back somehow they have made.
> that said we all know the score when getting the r35 end of.
> moan over.


But surely my car proves that the car needs servicing every 6 months having done only 10,500 in just over 2 and half years and needs a new gearbox. 

I check before buying the car and according to the dealer it had not been tracked or driven hard and i have only done 1500 miles in it and i don't cane my cars at all. A bit of foot to the floor every now and then but nothing to hard.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

gaz41uk said:


> I check before buying the car and according to the dealer it had not been tracked or driven hard and i have only done 1500 miles in it and i don't cane my cars at all. A bit of foot to the floor every now and then but nothing to hard.


empty statements from any dealer, lol


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Zed Ed said:


> But which '09 gets more wear; the 5k weekend toy or the 30k motorway commuter?


I really think that cars that have low mileage are more prone to faults then a car driven normally. I can't see how it helps it just being parked up all the time and thats what i do.

Can of worms that one :runaway:


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Zed Ed said:


> empty statements from any dealer, lol


It was not the dealer it was the technician, But like you said they tell you what you want to hear. This time it might backfire on them.


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## andyg (Apr 1, 2012)

Zed you would have to say the 30k one going purely on more gear changes even tho most mileage is motorway still got to get up and down the gears regardless me thinks


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## andyg (Apr 1, 2012)

Gaz4 maybe you had a bad egg of a gear box???


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## andyg (Apr 1, 2012)

Yes big can of worms lol


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Yep andy you could be right about the box but with it missing the 18 months gearbox oil change it could not help and i will still have my car as a "weekend toy" because thats what i bought it for.


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## ke11th (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks for the info.

Will double check, but I am pretty sure I counted 6 all in all.

As its had a new gearbox... (Costing £16k by the way) Saw the invoice.... Does that mean the gearbox will have additional warranty? 

I may need to check with Marshalls....




gaz41uk said:


> Hi. Its should have had
> 
> 1) 1200 miles
> 2) 6000 miles or 6 months
> ...


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

I think you get 12 months with any new parts fitted. Don't know if its covers the fitting or just the part.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

gaz41uk said:


> But surely my car proves that the car needs servicing every 6 months having done only 10,500 in just over 2 and half years and needs a new gearbox.


Doesn't prove anything, if the car had received every service the only thing done to the gearbox would be one fluid change. Your saying by not doing that it failed?? You were just unlucky.

The only two reasons to keep to the service schedule are resale and warranty. If you’re out of the 2nd and you’re not selling then it's irrelevant.

If the car hadn’t been serviced once in its entire life and the millage was real low what harm could that do?

Look at the service parts list and see if any of these would cause a failure to your car if not changed in 3yrs with very low millage down; Oil Filter, Air Filter, Brake Fluid, Engine Oil, Antifreeze, Diff Fluid and Gearbox Fluid.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

I don't understand why the gearbox fluid was not changed at the 24 month service if it missed it at the 18.
Madness, that's leaving it a whole year too late!

If you miss a service and go yearly like the MY11 or 12 you've got to catch everything up at the next service.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Got to agree, I think you were just unlucky.

I doubt it has anything to do with the service.

Bear in mind the 2011 onwards cars have a year service interval with exactly the same gearbox mechanicals and fluids used.


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## SamboGrove (Jun 27, 2010)

CT17 said:


> I don't understand why the gearbox fluid was not changed at the 24 month service if it missed it at the 18.
> Madness, that's leaving it a whole year too late!
> 
> If you miss a service and go yearly like the MY11 or 12 you've got to catch everything up at the next service.


Penny pinching by the dealership imo with regards to the gearbox fluid not being changed.

I bet nissan are pissed off at the chap who wrote the letter honouring the warranty now its blown up in their face!


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Did they fit a new MK 1 gearbox, or a new 2012 gearbox?
Any different to drive?


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## tomgtr (May 24, 2008)

I got a new gear box this winter. Took all in all app. 3 weeks. Dealer said I was lucky to get a 2012 gearbox but when flashing the TCM it showed up as regular 2009 model gearbox. Presumably do with some issues improved over the early ones which gave relatively many problems. Also interesting that the fault I had caused a complete exchange of the gearbox whil in Japan and USA it is being repaired nowadays. My HPC could have repaired it without issues but were not allowed.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

WingedBeast1968 said:


> Did they fit a new MK 1 gearbox, or a new 2012 gearbox?
> Any different to drive?


If thats question is for me. I have not even had the gearbox changed yet. Nissan are going to middlehurst on monday to look at it. 

I think to many dealers are just saying it stuff like gearbox,ECT. So Nissan have started to send one of they own people out to make sure the job really need to be done, But middlehurst have said its the gearbox to me.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

SamboGrove said:


> I bet nissan are pissed off at the chap who wrote the letter honouring the warranty now its blown up in their face!


That's the key point in this thread.

Verbal claims at point-of-sale are worthless and unproveable, a letter has real value.

I've had it a lot of times with a lot of products where salespeople make claims, than after asking for it in writing it all goes quiet. The biggest one is the whole 'of course they won't find out if the car is chipped and it won't affect the warranty' - ok then write a formal guarantee to that effect.........


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Well said.

Also the Japanese engineers should be ashamed their product fails. Disgraceful. Crap engineering. Go back to school and learn to do it properly. 10, 500 miles and it packs up. Appalling.

If they took more pride in their work, it'd never happen. Failure of leadership.

Shame on them.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

It's an American gearbox


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

I know it's Borg-Warner tech, but if you sub-contract, then as the system integrator you sign-off the subcon work and accept what has been supplied. The supplier should be hammered with a whole world of unhappiness and should be made to put it right or pay the consequences. That's what commercial and legal depts. are for.

The chief engineer is responsible for system integrity and should be accountable. That's what being an engineering professional is all about.


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## DeepDish (Oct 6, 2010)

At least you got the note Gaz - could of been alot worse buddy.

In the mean time, I would demand a courtesy car from Nissan and any funds reimbursed to yourself if you paid for the RAC to take the car to Middlehurst, if and when Nissan accept your warranty claim.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> Bear in mind the 2011 onwards cars have a year service interval with exactly the same gearbox mechanicals and fluids used.


The gearbox service interval jumps from 18 months to 36 months on a MY11, not that I'd want to leave the oil in there that long.


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## AL0481 (Dec 3, 2009)

I think WLMG Group (I got mine from Mill Hill) are pretty useless in general. I have never had a reminder that my car is up for its 6, 12, 18, etc month services plus, with the exception of Peter in the service department, the staff are useless! Go to Litchfields friendly and knowledgeable (far more so then any HPC), its just a shame they're in Cheltenham when I live in London. I will never go to a HPC again even in the knowledge that if I ever sell people will see it in a negative light that I haven't serviced the car at the main dealer.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Just a quick update for the people that are interested. Nissan came out yesterday and look at the car and i have just spoke to john and he says that they ( middlehurst ) have order a brand new gearbox and it should be about 3 weeks and a few days fitting it. I ask'd if its would be the new gearbox or an older new one if you know what i mean. Anyway he said its the new current gearbox but with the old software put on it , Which to me seems strange.

I also said to the wife this morning because of whats gone on and being a bit fed up with not getting the use out of the car that i might sell it. So you can guess what the wife said ? But no and i nearly fell though the floor she said DON'T sell it i think its the best car you've ever had. I could not believe it because she really is not one for fast cars. She likes 4x4. So looks like i'm keeping it i think. Women i really can't work them out.


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## DWC (May 18, 2009)

gaz41uk said:


> Just a quick update for the people that are interested. Nissan came out yesterday and look at the car and i have just spoke to john and he says that they ( middlehurst ) have order a brand new gearbox and it should be about 3 weeks and a few days fitting it. I ask'd if its would be the new gearbox or an older new one if you know what i mean. Anyway he said its the new current gearbox but with the old software put on it , Which to me seems strange.
> 
> I also said to the wife this morning because of whats gone on and being a bit fed up with not getting the use out of the car that i might sell it. So you can guess what the wife said ? But no and i nearly fell though the floor she said DON'T sell it i think its the best car you've ever had. I could not believe it because she really is not one for fast cars. She likes 4x4. So looks like i'm keeping it i think. Women i really can't work them out.


Great news mate. I likey ! Keep it if i were you as the Grey ones will be worth a fortune soon as there by far the fastest. lol


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

AL0481 said:


> I think WLMG Group (I got mine from Mill Hill) are pretty useless in general. I have never had a reminder that my car is up for its 6, 12, 18, etc month services plus, with the exception of Peter in the service department, the staff are useless! Go to Litchfields friendly and knowledgeable (far more so then any HPC), its just a shame they're in Cheltenham when I live in London. I will never go to a HPC again even in the knowledge that if I ever sell people will see it in a negative light that I haven't serviced the car at the main dealer.



I live in Mill Hill, but I still use Litchfields for my car! That said, I have the service plan for the first three years!


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

DWC said:


> Great news mate. I likey ! Keep it if i were you as the Grey ones will be worth a fortune soon as there by far the fastest. lol


Cheers mate think i will be keeping it, Just fed up of not having it and with the bit of warm weather it makes it worst. About the colour i wanted a black one and no other colour would do because the black ones IMHO is the best looking, But the first one i went to see was at Middlehurst and the body work was the worst condition of a car that was 2 years old that i've ever seen. So DMG was the second colour and glad i pick it in the end .Its like stage one by just having a colour. HA HA.


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## DWC (May 18, 2009)

gaz41uk said:


> Cheers mate think i will be keeping it, Just fed up of not having it and with the bit of warm weather it makes it worst. About the colour i wanted a black one and no other colour would do because the black ones IMHO is the best looking, But the first one i went to see was at Middlehurst and the body work was the worst condition of a car that was 2 years old that i've ever seen. So DMG was the second colour and glad i pick it in the end .Its like stage one by just having a colour. HA HA.


Yeh i dont know why but i just cant stand any car in Black. I dont know what all the fuss is about. They look awefull as soon as there a slight bit dirty and show up every mark. Swirls stand out big time and stones chips all over the front stand out so much. They just look rough as.

Grey looks much more classy and still looks great if just a bit dirty. Very resilient. Mine has chips on the front and general scatter etc but looks fantastic still after 3 years.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

A quick question will the Bell housing be changed with the new gearbox or is this a separate part ?


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Separate part unfortunately....


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Stevie76 said:


> Separate part unfortunately....


Thanks :thumbsup:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Interesting story, thanks for sharing.
So what everyone wants to know is, what exactly did the manager write on that letter? 

This illustrates that gearboxes can fail under any use, not just track use, launches etc.
In fact if data were collated I would not be surprised to see your hypothesis was correct, that infrequent use increases the chances of the gearbox going wrong.

Thank goodness we have Litchfield to repair any breakages for a fraction of the cost of replacement...


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Here you go.


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

gaz41uk said:


> Here you go.


Excellent. Well done on getting him to write that, pretty unequivocal by an HPC Manager. :thumbsup:


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

That should be better. nope can't get it the right way up .Sorry. Turn your monitor upside down . Ha Ha.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

See how he's put covered by any standard warranty.Thats why i think upgrade's are a very grey area, On my last service, The 36 months the cars going to Litchfields and i'm getting a stage 1 + the gearbox upgrade and 12 warranty off them.


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## andyg (Apr 1, 2012)

how much is the 12 monther from litchfields and what does it cover?
would be looking to take a warranty out myself soon


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Not 100% sure but this is what i have read.

"I need an extended warranty for end of June. Middlehust are quoting £1500 but this includes an optimization. Litchfield are quoting £1000 but need to fully inspect first which is extra unless you get the 36 month service done by them. Middlehurst 36 month is £1000 but Litchfield just under £780. Would be no brainer but just concerned re marketability if need to sell. Have to say that both costs are higher than I paid for main dealer service and warranty for previous C4s 997 !! Any further advice would be appreciated."


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## andyg (Apr 1, 2012)

seems fair to me gaz
would not worry about re-sale value as most people in the know would probably prefer litchfield service history than nhpc if you were looking to sell up after nissan 3yr warranty expired
i for one wouldnt mind that if buying a used gtr.


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## gaz41uk (Sep 26, 2011)

Last update i hope !

Just got the car back so its tuck about 4 weeks to sort out and put a new gearbox in. 

Been out in the car for about an hour and it feels a lot better then before very smooth. 

The jerking in 1st and 2nd has gone and no jolting away on hills very happy with it now. 

Don't know which software its had done but have been told its LC2 same as before but and car drives a lot different. 

No paperwork saying its got a new box just a stamp with a new serial number at the back of the service book. 

Now's time to get some miles on the baby as 1500 in 7 months is no good.:squintdan


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Glad you got it sorted mate : ) 

Shame on you for only covering 1500 miles in 7 months lol. Now get out and have some fun :chuckle: took mine to Dorset last week and it was just soooo much fun  although not looking forward to the credit card bill once the fill ups start coming through lol


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## Alexinphuket (Jan 25, 2012)

Informative read.


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## spiceykam (Jul 6, 2012)

I totally agree, I used to have a TVR and used it maybe once or twice a month, and had some problems earlier on, then a well know engineer told me that performance cars are engineered to be driven and not sitting on driveways, for joints and seals to become perished or stuck. Since then I drove the car every week, and for 5years never experienced any further problems.


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## spiceykam (Jul 6, 2012)

I did the Monaco run in my C63, and looking forward to Monaco and Rome next year in the GTR. now that's enjoying driving !.,


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