# December issue CAR magazine



## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

just picked up December issue today. Interesting article comparing R35 with new 911 turbo and Mercedes (gullwing) SLS AMG


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## kk1 (Nov 3, 2009)

axolotl , I'll try to pick up the mag but won't be till probably friday.

Is it worth buying it because you say it is intereting re R35. So is it positive for us R35 owners?


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

well i found it positive to me. it makes me feel good to know i've somehow managed to own something that reaches the same heights as these other cars


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## kk1 (Nov 3, 2009)

Cheers for that, defo buying it now.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

FFS, who won, damn it man?


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## dhayek (Nov 25, 2009)

R33_GTS-t said:


> FFS, who won, damn it man?


+1!!!


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## apj30 (Jun 26, 2009)

+2 !!

Spill the beans, am stuck in Germany so won't be able to buy myself a copy! What was the final verdict?


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

lol. they gave 5 stars to all three. they said they'd get the gt-r felt the quickest and also that they'd choose it if it was their own money and the 911 if "the company's paying" They said that "while the Turbo and the GT-R sometimes struggle to disguise their hooligan genes, the SLS is an extrovert in the best possible taste. It takes gold." I've got no idea what they're talking about with the last statement but, hey this isn't EVO it's only CAR. Anyway there is a nice paragraph describing the thrill of driving the GT-R. They reckon it's the quickest of the three to 62mph and they saw an indicated speed of 202mph on the autobahn. (I'm guessing the speedo was over-reading though as I would have thought the GT-R would hit the rev limiter in 6th before 200)


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## the dentist (Nov 24, 2009)

disgusting behaviour on my part, i have seen the thread you had started. no ignorance meant. ( beg your pardon )


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

To those for whom the dentist's words echo on confused ears....I believe said dentist is apologising for starting a second thread also discussing the CAR article, entitled "GTR, critics". Apology accepted, no harm done!


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## the dentist (Nov 24, 2009)

lol........LOL......loling......


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

axolotl said:


> To those for whom the dentist's words echo on confused ears....I believe said dentist is apologising for starting a second thread also discussing the CAR article, entitled "GTR, critics". Apology accepted, no harm done!


I think a ban is in order.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

axolotl said:


> lol. they gave 5 stars to all three. they said they'd get the gt-r felt the quickest and also that they'd choose it if it was their own money and the 911 if "the company's paying" They said that "while the Turbo and the GT-R sometimes struggle to disguise their hooligan genes, the SLS is an extrovert in the best possible taste. It takes gold." I've got no idea what they're talking about with the last statement but, hey this isn't EVO it's only CAR. Anyway there is a nice paragraph describing the thrill of driving the GT-R. They reckon it's the quickest of the three to 62mph and they saw an indicated speed of 202mph on the autobahn. (I'm guessing the speedo was over-reading though as I would have thought the GT-R would hit the rev limiter in 6th before 200)


Was it a manual 911 Turbo or PDK. The PDK with LC allegedly makes 0-60 in 3.0s, so it surprises me that the GTR is faster than that to 60. The rest sounds about right though.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

R33_GTS-t said:


> Was it a manual 911 Turbo or PDK. The PDK with LC allegedly makes 0-60 in 3.0s, so it surprises me that the GTR is faster than that to 60. The rest sounds about right though.



Yup the word "allegedly" says it all. We know the GTR will hit 0-60 in 3.3 and is faster round the ring that those 2 and I know from 1st hand experience that the GTR is faster and can pull away from a 911 Turbo, an Audi R8 V8 and V10, any of the current Lambo's and a 430 Scud !!! FACT !!


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

R33_GTS-t said:


> Was it a manual 911 Turbo or PDK. The PDK with LC allegedly makes 0-60 in 3.0s, so it surprises me that the GTR is faster than that to 60. The rest sounds about right though.


Indeed, I think it was the racelogic videos that were floating around very recently showed a repeatable average of 3.06 seconds using the LC on the PDK 997.2 Turbo Cab. 

EVO recently timed the Panamera Turbo at 3.6 seconds to 60 !!


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

R33_GTS-t said:


> FFS, who won, damn it man?


SLS

Philip


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

I was thinking more about 'winning' in terms of times and stuff, not how some softies felt about the leather.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Steve said:


> Yup the word "allegedly" says it all. We know the GTR will hit 0-60 in 3.3 and is faster round the ring that those 2 and I know from 1st hand experience that the GTR is faster and can pull away from a 911 Turbo, an Audi R8 V8 and V10, any of the current Lambo's and a 430 Scud !!! FACT !!


BULLSHIT ! There is NO way a 1700+ kg car can "pull away" from a 1600 kg car with more power and a huge pile more torque (650 nm from 1950 to 5000 rpm vs 580 nm from 3200 to 5200 rpm), unless of course the driver of the other car is a complete moron ! And the same goes for the 0-60 times. Whoever says otherwise is defying basic logic. What's even more revolting though is that you're implying that Porsche engineers LIED when they quoted a 3.4 s 0-62 time for the PDK Sport-Crono 911 turbo. Why ? Because your petty little mind simply can't conceive that an other car can surpass your GT-R. Not even one that weights 100+ kg less, produces more power and has a MUCH fatter torque curve, like the 911 turbo has. Oh, and did I mention it costs twice as much !? Well of course it does, because it's a much better car, from almost EVERY point of view: looks, engine, transmission, ride confort, interior fit and finish, etc etc. Ok, so maybe the GT-R is a few seconds faster on the track, but who really gives a damn about track times when buying a ROAD car ? I surely don't.


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

You should have a new name:

"Porschetosserdude"

D


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

997.1 turbo tiptronic vs gt-r,turbo has huge lag from stop but on motorway speeds when you give it some slack it feel much quicker in a straight line than the gt-r(driven them back to back and turbo defo feel faster expecially at above 150-180km).Gt-r feel miles quicker in the corners,more planted to0, like its on rails sometimes.

Ive owned both and given the choice between the 2 i would get the gt-r everytime over the lagy response of the turbo engine with the bunny hopping front end(although much more comfortable i have to say).

i havent drive the new car with pdk so no comment on that.if they fixed the lag and the way the car behaves near the limit i might consider it as i like the proportions of the 911 better.my only concern with the gt-r was the size rather than the weight(unless u go 10/10 you dont really feel it).


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## ozren (Apr 12, 2009)

amgdude, one also needs to transfer the power onto the road... 60000nm but crappy traction with uber wheel spin == no win. also, track time is actually important, if you like to drive your car on curvy up/downhill island/country roads where you need to break and shift and accelerate like mad all the time. of course, that also requires skill from the driver. from your comment i guess you drive your car only in a straight line.... must be extremely exciting!

in general it seems new turbo has narrowed the gap with gt-r, and i think on straights its faster. but when it comes to grip and overall track times, gt-r is still faster. personally think both are great cars, with gt-r being much cheaper (which is a plus in my book, not a minus as for amguberrichdude rofl - and you dare mention logic).


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

If I felt inclined to spend £100k+ on a car then I'd expect it to be twice the car sat on my drive, in every respect.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

AMGDUDE

Sorry pal I HAVE DONE IT ON MORE THAN ONE OCCESSION !!!!


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

In a straight line from a rolling start(to minimize driver error) stock for stock the gt-r is slower than porsche turbo,gt2,z06,zr1,lp560,lp640,f scuderia,gt40 etc...


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

If you really care that much about straight line speed anyway . . spend the difference in price between the R35 and the 911 modifying the stock car and get yourself down a drag strip. But, seeing as the 'daily drive' R35 with it's usable luggage space and rear seats can hold its own on the track, let alone the open road against the best cars Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Corvette can produce is an incredible feat.

Hats off to Nissan who's designers and engineers have come up with a masterpiece that a manufacturer like Porsche has to play catch up with. Porsche must hate reading articles with lines like . . "_the new turbo has narrowed the gap_ . . ." That's a farcical statement all things considered! I'm over the moon to own the car that's eclipsing stripped out supercar lap times and putting so many other Top Marques in the shade.


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## ScottyB (Jun 9, 2009)

Guys,

I have owned both i got rid of my 997 Turbo to buy the GTR.

The poster above talking about lag on the 997 TT is talking rubbish, sorry no other way of putting it, the 997 TT has zero lag not an ounce of it due to the variable vains on the turbos.

If you were experiencing lag in a 997 TT it was goosed and needed looking at either that or you were trying to accelerate from 30mph in top gear at 1000 rpm..........

Which do i prefer more, hard to say, the 997 TT "felt" faster because it appeared smaller and more nimble but sadly the lap times tell a different story.

The weight and size of the GTR and the way it moves are a design dream, it is the GTR for me every time.

Regards

ScottyB


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Autocar timed the GTR35 round Castle Coombe - it was quicker the 997.2 turbo with PDK and the R8 v10, but the porsche accelerated fastest - a standard GTR35 isn't as fast in a striaghtline as the Porsche according to the figs.

Cheers,


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## Kamae (Jun 15, 2009)

Who cares!!??? If someone is a Porsche fan (though I personally find it hard to understand why that would be  - bloody ugly things as far as I;m concerned no matter how good a car they're supposed to be) then you're never going to convince them how good a GTR is - even when it's overtaking them.

As the recent video post against a 430 on track point out - driver skills are too much of a variable to make sense of many of these comparisons and if there's still anyone that thinks that a fraction of a second on an acceleration time is the best way to evaluate a car (for anything other than drag racing) then they're a tosser (or Jeremy Clarkson - oops - same thing!)

I've seen 0-60 figures published for a stock GTR from 3.2 to 3.9 seconds and whilst that's interesting it's still missing the point. The GTR is in a league of it's own because it does things round corners that the other cars cannot. Of course Porsches, Lambo's and Ferraris can do clever stuff too and for that they have their own fan base. 

But GTR owners know the difference.


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

R35Bren said:


> If you really care that much about straight line speed anyway . . spend the difference in price between the R35 and the 911 modifying the stock car and get yourself down a drag strip. But, seeing as the 'daily drive' R35 with it's usable luggage space and rear seats can hold its own on the track, let alone the open road against the best cars Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Corvette can produce is an incredible feat.
> 
> Hats off to Nissan who's designers and engineers have come up with a masterpiece that a manufacturer like Porsche has to play catch up with. Porsche must hate reading articles with lines like . . "_the new turbo has narrowed the gap_ . . ." That's a farcical statement all things considered! I'm over the moon to own the car that's eclipsing stripped out supercar lap times and putting so many other Top Marques in the shade.


i was answering to steve as to not mislead ppl into believing that the gt-r can destroy so many cars(all street cars mind you) on the road where every one races in a straight line. i dont care about straight line speed as much handling thats why i ordered a gt3 instead of zo6 or zr1 

btw if you dont care about speed save a lot of money and get yourself a go cart :chairshot


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

ScottyB said:


> Guys,
> 
> I have owned both i got rid of my 997 Turbo to buy the GTR.
> 
> ...


below 2200 rpm the turbo feels like underpowered.i have driven 3 tiptronic 997turbos and all of them felt lagy,after that you feel the burst of power kick in.where as in the gt-r its very linear and smooth like even in a 135i has linear power delivery and almost no lag. ive driven the tt in manual mode(most of the time) in 1st from stop and 2nd, both had little power below 2200rpm unlike gt-r. 

before labeling other ppls post as rubish,you might want to tell us if your turbo was manual,that could make a difference since there no torque convertor. btw i have never driven a manual 997 turbo.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

fun2k said:


> 997.1 turbo tiptronic vs gt-r,turbo has huge lag from stop but on motorway speeds when you give it some slack it feel much quicker in a straight line than the gt-r(driven them back to back and turbo defo feel faster expecially at above 150-180km).Gt-r feel miles quicker in the corners,more planted to0, like its on rails sometimes.
> 
> Ive owned both and given the choice between the 2 i would get the gt-r everytime over the lagy response of the turbo engine with the bunny hopping front end(although much more comfortable i have to say).
> 
> i havent drive the new car with pdk so no comment on that.if they fixed the lag and the way the car behaves near the limit i might consider it as i like the proportions of the 911 better.my only concern with the gt-r was the size rather than the weight(unless u go 10/10 you dont really feel it).


They fixed the lag in the facelift. They also fixed the hopping front end, and the on-limit behavior. It's MUCH more stable and tossable now. Much more confortable too. Ok, i haven't driven the new 911 turbo, or any 911 for that matter, but the dozen reviews on the web can't be wrong.




ozren said:


> amgdude, one also needs to transfer the power onto the road... 60000nm but crappy traction with uber wheel spin == no win. also, track time is actually important, if you like to drive your car on curvy up/downhill island/country roads where you need to break and shift and accelerate like mad all the time. of course, that also requires skill from the driver. from your comment i guess you drive your car only in a straight line.... must be extremely exciting!


Well, the porsche has the engine mounted over the rear axle so i suppose that means it has better traction off-the-line than the front engined GT-R ! Also, AWD means wheel spin is minimal in both cases. But again the porsche has the advantage of rear mounted engine, which means better traction overall.

Track time is important only if you track your car. Otherwise it's complete non-sense, because any way you put it, there simply isn't any term of comparison between a track and a public road.
What i mean is, if a car is faster on a track is doesn't necessarly mean it's faster on the road, or a twisty road for that matter, because while the track is smooth like a baby's face the road isn't, it has bumps, irregularities, potholes and so on, so you can't drive your track-tuned Gt-R at the same pace as you do on the circuit. Oh, and did i mention that on public roads there are cars coming the other way ?? Now that's going to be a problem, unless...unless of course the mighty japanese invent some clever device to blow up incoming cars and thus let GODZILLA unleash it's full potential outside of the track. From what i've heard they're working on it right now. It's gonna be called the "Track Preparator Device For The Public Road", or something like that. Now that's an option to DIE for.



> in general it seems new turbo has narrowed the gap with gt-r, and i think on straights its faster. but when it comes to grip and overall track times, gt-r is still faster. personally think both are great cars, with gt-r being much cheaper (which is a plus in my book, not a minus as for amguberrichdude rofl - and you dare mention logic).


On the track maybe, but on public roads, NEVER ! Why ? Simply because the new 911 turbo has a much more compliant suspension than the GT-R, it's lighter, and has a MUCH fatter torque-curve, not to mention the other improvements it gets over the previous generation (like dynamic engine mounts, porsche torque vectoring, uber-fast PDK transmission, and so on)

The price of the GT-R is not a minus, it's quality is, and by that I mean that the price is in accordance with the general quality of the car, which is leaps behind that of a porsche. It's DATSUN/NISSAN vs PORSCHE, and guess what ? Porsche is better. And therefore more expensive. Sure, you can have a Catterham at a fraction of the price of both cars, and it will probably be faster than both on a track, but for road use, it' simply not going to work. That's why I think that track times are not an important criteria for buying a road car, and have little to no relevance at all for normal driving conditions.


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## diddy_p (Oct 5, 2006)

OK so amgdude has just aggregated a bunch of reviews on both cars in order to make a judgement whereas there are others on this thread who have owned/driven both; lol ; how can you talk about what has a more compliant suspension when you havent driven either car?


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

diddy_p said:


> how can you talk about what has a more compliant suspension when you havent driven either car?


When you're a 14-year-old American.

Philip


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Stupid troll thread, just ignore AMG Idiot and lets keep it on track.


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## ozren (Apr 12, 2009)

yeah, pointless to continue... when someone claims tracks are without bumps, and on top of that GT-R is worse on bumps than the Porsche, than it is all clear... someone has read some articles and now thinks he knows the matter (and throws traffic in as well hahahaha). it would be funny if it wasn't sad!


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

diddy_p said:


> OK so amgdude has just aggregated a bunch of reviews on both cars in order to make a judgement whereas there are others on this thread who have owned/driven both


Oh, and you're sugesting that I should trust by word every douche on the net who says his car is faster than the rest, instead of trusting several reputed car journalists/magazines, who say otherways ?? Not to mention Porsche's own engineers, cause we all know they're full of s**t. I mean, this is truly outrageous, a 1600 kg car with rear mounted engine and 700 nm has better 0-60 times than a 1750 kg car with front mounted engine and 580 nm ? Surely this can't be right, because we all know than nothing accelerates better than our 70000$ re-badged Datsun. It's written in the laws of physics. ROFL !



> how can you talk about what has a more compliant suspension when you havent driven either car?


Well, i've read it in several car magazines. They said the GT-R's suspension felt harsher than the porsche's (the pre-facelift model) on bumpy roads, but I understand Nissan changed the suspension settings for the 2010 Euro model making it more confortable. 



Guy said:


> Stupid troll thread, just ignore AMG Idiot and lets keep it on track.


What a clever reply ! So by calling me an idiot I supose that means you've won this argument, and the GT-R is still the best car in the world, bar none, because i'm an idiot and you're a smart guy, right ?




> yeah, pointless to continue... when someone claims tracks are without bumps, and on top of that GT-R is worse on bumps than the Porsche, than it is all clear... someone has read some articles and now thinks he knows the matter (and throws traffic in as well hahahaha). it would be funny if it wasn't sad!


Yeah, sure, formula 1 tracks are full of bumps, and potholes too ! Really, dude, who are you kidding ? And supposing you're right, how in the world can a DTM/Formula 1 car race on them, with their 10 mm or so ground clearence ? Do they levitate or something ? Like I said, i'm not very familiar with track conditions, but I imagine they are MUCH smoother than your everyday road, in order to accomodate this kind of cars !


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Not even going to bother to read all that sh*t, just know that in the REAL world my GTR's (R33 & R35) have been beating 911 GT3 RS's for 12 years on the track and anything on the road. The R35 kills all it comes across, read my thread about the REAL WORLD LIFE ADVENTURE OF THE 2,500 MILE ALPINE aDVENTURE. 63 cars and only one winner, a GTR (R35)


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

AMGDude, you come on a GTR forum and spout off like a 10 year old boy and expect to be taken seriously??

We know Porsches are nice cars - many people on this forum have owned and driven then, but surprisingly on a GTR forum they tend to prefer Nissan GTRs......go figure......


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Hey, who said they are nice ?? + they have the engine in the wrong place and to be honest the 911 is a dam ugly car !!!


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

This idiot should watch the Autocar video of the 997.2 T v GTR v R8 V10 last week.

The comments Steve Sutcliffe makes when driving the Porsche down the main straight/kink to quarry says it all - he just about can hold onto the steering wheel due to the car bumping and weaving everywhere - borderline dangerous in untrained hands.

By the way he still thinks the GTR is better, mainly due to the value against the >100k Germans.

Anyway, I am sure the PS3/X box game has the Porsche winning so thats all that matters...eh?

D


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Hey Steve,

My old man had a 1985 911 turbo - gorgeous to look at, but a bit of a challenge to drive quickly!!

If I had the money I would have the current GT3RS, but I am happy with my GTR32 and unlike AMGdude, I actually have a car!!

I see your car is feaured in Redline magazine - good article.

Cheers,


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Steve said:


> Hey, who said they are nice ?? + they have the engine in the wrong place and to be honest the 911 is a dam ugly car !!!


Engine in the wrong place ? Haha, that's such an 80's cliche ! 

Looks are subjective and I think the 911 turbo is one of the most beautifull cars around, but the GT-R looks pretty nice too ! The only thing i dislike about the 911 is the front end, it looks very dated and beetle-ish. The rest is pure sex.




markM3 said:


> AMGDude, you come on a GTR forum and spout off like a 10 year old boy and expect to be taken seriously??


What do you call "spouting" sir ? I'm not spouting i just think that the new 911 turbo is a superior car, and WAY faster than a GT-R on a straight line. YOU are spouting that your car is better, despite all data showing otherwise (more weight, lesser torque curve, front mounted engine, etc.). And as you can see the gap on a track is fairly minimal beetwen the two cars, 0.3 s is simply a matter of luck more than anything else. But in reality there is no gap, because the idiot driver has put the suspension in the hardest setting, which is meant only for SMOOTH tracks, on a VERY BUMPY track, and sent shockwaves throughout the car, thus loosing important traction. How can someone be that stupid, and be called a professional racing driver, i just don't get it.




SumoGay said:


> This idiot should watch the Autocar video of the 997.2 T v GTR v R8 V10 last week.


This idiot has already watched it. And it kind of confirms what I said in my first post: a Nissan GT-R can beat a Porsche 911 Turbo, but only if the man racing the porsche is a complete moron. Which that Suitcliffe guy undoubtedly is.



> The comments Steve Sutcliffe makes when driving the Porsche down the main straight/kink to quarry says it all - he just about can hold onto the steering wheel due to the car bumping and weaving everywhere - borderline dangerous in untrained hands.


Borderline dangerous when you're borderline stupid. You DON'T activate PASM sport+ setting unless the track is butter smooth, which that track surely wasn't. It would have surely gotten a better time if he left the suspension setting to NORMAL. Either way, a 0.3 s diference in those circumstances, "with the car bumping and weaving everywhere" like you say, is not that bad. Is not bad at all, i must say. 



> By the way he still thinks the GTR is better, mainly due to the value against the >100k Germans.


By the same judgement, he could also argue that the GT-R is better than the Veyron ! I mean, you can buy A DOZEN GT-R's for the price of a Bugatti Veyron, and the Bugatti is not much faster (if any) o a track than the GT-R, so, voila, the Nissan is the better car. Right ? WRONG.


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## diddy_p (Oct 5, 2006)

i do own a 911 by the way, just for the record!! ok its not a 997 turbo, its a 993 c4 VR cab but anyhow i think its just dumb to just read reviews of these cars and make an (un)informed opinion and talk in a way as if you have first hand experience of these cars especially when youre in the presence of people who have owned or driven both cars on this forum.

maybe you should go to a porsche dealer and test a 997.2 TT and then a HPC and test a GTR and then tell us what you think?


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

I don't think it's dumb to make an opinion on something based on what other people who have tested that thing say. And I'm talking about proffesional reviewers here, not some forum based impressions of people I don't even know, which CLAIM, but can't prove in either way, that their car is this in that, that they raced Lambos and Ferraris and won, and so on. I mean, why on earth should I believe something like that ?! Bold claims like these mean nothing without proofs, and sadly the proofs in our case are all but missing.

That being said, i'm waiting for a vid which shows that the Nissan Gt-R is faster than a 911 Turbo in a straight line (moron driver excluded). Or a Lamborghini Gallardo for that matter. C'mon dudes, bring on the evidence, don't be shy !


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Just for a quick reference point I am doing 140mph in my R33 GTR at Avon Rise just before Quarry with the suspension set HARD all round and I can control and hang onto the car which is more than can be said for any 911 as the tend to come off as my quote (not from the 80's, but fact) the enginge is in the wrong place !!! ie pendulum effect LOL


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## white gtr 35 (May 2, 2009)

Can somebody ask Jensen button... I did not see him buying a porker... Actions speak louder than words and the last time I looked he seemed to know his way around tarmac:thumbsup:


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

AMGDude,

You think the Porsche is superior, whilst many on this forum feel the GTR is.

Your opinion is just that, just seems that you are on a hiding to nothing shouting it out on a GTR forum.

Sutcliffe by the way is a very able driver, maybe the Porsche just doesn't get on with Castle Coombe race track.

Face it, for the heavier GTR to be faster round a circuit than a lighter faster accelerating car speaks volumes for its chassis.

Cheers, 

over & out.........


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Well personnaly I would like to thank AMGdude for coming to this forum as his comments have had me rolling around (thats laughing not driving) almost as much as the legendry 6speeds.

Just a thought................. since you obviously have 911s plastered over your bedroom wall why choose a forum name based on a mercedes.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

RSVFOUR said:


> Well personnaly I would like to thank AMGdude for coming to this forum as his comments have had me rolling around (thats laughing not driving) almost as much as the legendry 6speeds.
> 
> Just a thought................. since you obviously have 911s plastered over your bedroom wall why choose a forum name based on a mercedes.


Oh I'm not sure he's up to 6Speeds tin foil hat levels of fingers in the ears ner ner ner I can't hear you but he's still a troll none the less.

Best to ignore them really. It's not like they have anything valuable to contribute.


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## GOLDMINE (Apr 5, 2009)

AMGdude just out of intrest perhaps you could tell us all what car you drive you seem so cluded up on the GTR and porsches.wot you got then?


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

white gtr 35 said:


> Can somebody ask Jensen button... I did not see him buying a porker... Actions speak louder than words and the last time I looked he seemed to know his way around tarmac


I didn't see him buy a Pagani Zonda either ! So what does this mean, that the Zonda is a inferior car to the Gt-R ? How about the ferrari F430 ? Or the LP560 ? Cause i haven't seen him buy these cars either.



markM3 said:


> Sutcliffe by the way is a very able driver, maybe the Porsche just doesn't get on with Castle Coombe race track.


Sure it doesn't, when you put the suspension in it's hardest setting, only because you're on a "track", lol. So "able driver" or not, he's an idiot.



> Face it, for the heavier GTR to be faster round a circuit than a lighter faster accelerating car speaks volumes for its chassis.


Yes but at the expense of a much harsher ride than the porsche on public roads. 
Even on the normal setting. At least, that's what car journalists who have tested both cars say ! Even the Nissan engineers aknowleged this fact, so they retuned the suspension for the 2010 model to make it less sfiffer and more livable. How will this affect track times, remains to be seen.




RSVFOUR said:


> Well personnaly I would like to thank AMGdude for coming to this forum as his comments have had me rolling around (thats laughing not driving) almost as much as the legendry 6speeds.


Which comments exactly ? Please point them out, so I can see what you are talking about. I don't think i've said anything out of place, I mean the Gt-R is a very nice car, but it's not on par with the porsche in terms of raw peformance, not to mention build quality or ride confort, like some guys on this forum imply. 



> Just a thought................. since you obviously have 911s plastered over your bedroom wall why choose a forum name based on a mercedes.


Because I own a SL 63 AMG


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## GOLDMINE (Apr 5, 2009)

Just watched the autocar clip no more needs to be said. So shut it AMGdude man and them porsche headlamps are pig ugly.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Yes they are ! I also think that the front end of the porsche looks like crap. But the video you are talking about is complete rubbish, because like I said the moron driving the Porsche put the PASM in sport+, where as that mode is reserved for only the smoothest tracks. No wonder the 911 got a slower time (albeit by a marginal 0.3 s), when the front end of the car was in the air most of the time !


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## Rich001 (Jul 13, 2008)

amgdude said:


> I didn't see him buy a Pagani Zonda either ! So what does this mean, that the Zonda is a inferior car to the Gt-R ? How about the ferrari F430 ? Or the LP560 ? Cause i haven't seen him buy these cars either.
> 
> 
> Yes but at the expense of a much *harsher ride* than the porsche on public roads.
> ...


I dont see you driving a 997 TT either, so why are you here preaching about them so much. You said yourself you have never driven one. (are you old enough to have a car?)

Do you need a confortable riding car after meeting up with real 997 TT owners in _those_ sort of bars. The GTR does have a harsh ride and stiff chassis which goes some of the way towards explaining why the GTR is faster round a track (any track) than the bestest car eva 997 TT

The GTR is slightly slower than a £110,000+ 997TT with sport chrono in a straight line fair enough.

I don't understand why you are still here amgdude? We were happy enough foaming at the mouths having a mass-debate over our GTR's before you trolled in.:thumbsup:

I like SL63's :thumbsup:


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

i dont understand all the arguing, but what i do understand is this THE NISSAN GTR IS FASTER THAN THE PORSCHE.. and porsche should be embarassed..


i know if the GTR GOT HUMBLED BY A VAUXHALL OR A FORD.. I WOULD FEEL YOUR FRUSTRATION ASWELL.


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## peterpeter (Feb 24, 2008)

no offence AMG but I have owned porsches for 15 years. Massive fan, owned many and driven virtually every model other than the carrera GT and track most of them too.
I understand and love porsches, but you really are talking some bollocks.

I can honestly say that the GTR is easily as good if not better than any porsche I have ever owned. 

Have you driven/ tracked/ owned a porsche?
Have you driven/tracked/ owned a GTR?

I have on both counts and the GTR is far far better than you realise


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

No your right the last car jenson button owned was a bugatti veyron
and if you read the article he is quoted as saying the gtr is 90% as much fun
but 1/18 of the price. Amg is the new 6speed


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Rich001 said:


> I dont see you driving a 997 TT either, so why are you here preaching about them so much. You said yourself you have never driven one. (are you old enough to have a car?)


Am I old enough ? What kind of silly question is that dude ? 



> Do you need a confortable riding car after meeting up with real 997 TT owners in _those_ sort of bars. The GTR does have a harsh ride and stiff chassis which goes some of the way towards explaining why the GTR is faster round a track (any track) than the bestest car eva 997 TT


It's not "the bestest car eva", lol. It's just better than the Nissan ! And i'm talking about the facelifted 911, not the "old" one. Autobild seems to comply:

YouTube - Porsche Turbo (2010) vs Nissan GT-R Part 1

YouTube - Porsche Turbo (2010) vs Nissan GT-R Part 2




> The GTR is slightly slower than a £110,000+ 997TT with sport chrono in a straight line fair enough.


Ok, if you call 5 cars slightly...:nervous:



> I don't understand why you are still here amgdude? We were happy enough foaming at the mouths having a mass-debate over our GTR's before you trolled in.:thumbsup:


This is a CAR FORUM right ? What's your problem, you don't like people with other opinions than yours ? Or do I have to praise the GT-R in order to post here ? Ok, the GT-R is the greatest car ever build ! In Japan that is. Happy now ?



> I like SL63's :thumbsup:


I'm glad to hear that  Here is a pic of mine:

Imageshack - 1000479h


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## waltong (Apr 11, 2008)

Nice photo.......is that an oil leak?


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## Kaizen (Oct 10, 2009)

I have an R35, a 993 GT2, another Porsche and some other things. I have owned several Porsches before.

Build quality: I would suggest that the Nissan is as good as the Porsche (which is good but not that good).

Comfort: the 997T is more softly sprung and damped. It is more comfortable over bumps.

Straight line: done perfectly, based on the test results we've all seen, the newly tweaked 997T will out accelerate a GT-R, now that they've spent two years at Zuffenhausen tweaking it. 

But: 

1) you better get everything 100% right in the 997 or the GT-R will be over the horizon (it's poise and traction are extraordinary, and FAR superior to the 997) 

2) £1000 pounds later and the nissan is pretty much back on top, £5000 and there is NO contest at all

AMGDude seems not to understand that putting the power down is essential, the GT-R has a remarkable combination of traction and tranmission capabilities.

Most grown-ups would feel at least slightly embarrassed at showing up regurgitating summary soundbites from Autocar and other comics. I think someone should tell Paul Whitehouse and the FastShow: great scope for a ridiculous character like the guy in the pub.


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## Rich001 (Jul 13, 2008)

Looks well amg dude  not as fast as a 997.2 TT though  nor a GTR

Everyone has their own opinion, its unlikely you are going to convert us all to thinking the 997 is better and vice versa.


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## Godspd (Dec 12, 2001)

This thread should be shut down!...what's the point arguing with a Porsche FANBOY...don't waist your time!


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## bobd (Mar 25, 2008)

I think an anagram from the following is whats required here

DHANOKEB:-

I am off now to see if I can get this Porka v GTR sh** out of my head.
After all with boot space only fit for a couple of handbags,and a flappy front end every Katoi should have one.


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

If I am in the market for a high performance car that i can use daily ,i only have 3 options,audi r8,gt-r and 911 turbo. make it a 2+2 and you only have 2 cars to choose from. That and the fact that gt-r is half the price is down rite wrong in itself. if porsche drops the price id still buy the gt-r but if i had (ahem by mistake lol) bought a turbo id still be happy as this car is in no way worth 2 times a gt-r.

From a technological quality stand point how is porsche better than nissan?
it has carbon fibre shaft,carbon underbody air diffuser,better 4 wheel drive system,better response from the engine(less lag more linear),better handling,more features inside (hdd, ipod, etc),dual clutch trans.

This is all comparing stock vs 997.1 turbo when gt-r was launched.i dont remember carbon fibre being used anywhere in the turbo.granted quality of the interior is better in the turbo but then you have to pay extra for small pieces of leather everywhere which is just stupid.gtr had a few pieces of plastic which i didnt like (the aluminum looking plastic in the center consloe and that ugly black plastic on the side and around the starter button.

correct me if im wrong but i just dont see how the quality in the turbo is better???The only thing better is the ride compliance and thats it.


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## Kamae (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh - I just have to add my opinion to the most opinionated thread I ever saw! If I have it right I can sum up the clear thinking of AMG dud as follows:-

1. There are easily as many reviews of GTRs vs Porches that have the GTR on top - AMG dude dismisses these professional journalists as idiots, but the Authors of the other articles where the Porsche comes out on top have it 'just right'.

2. Whenever a Porsche is beaten by a GTR then the driver of the Porsche is by definition an idiot

3. The laws of physics (or at least a few of them taken in isolation) will always outclass the laws of real life observation as it's clear that those undertaking the real life observation are either idiots or biased if they can't see how superior the Porsche is. Power output and mass alone prove that the GTR cannot beat most of the cars it has beaten (ooh, go figure!)

4. The guy who knows the most about performance cars in the world choses as his wheels....an AMG Merc - obviously !
(I was going to add a comment here - but really - add your own!)

5. Car preference is a very personal thing. The looks, the badge, the image, the ride, the handling, the performance, the equipment, the interior space, the functionality, everyday usability etc etc. - and of course the price. After all of this process there are still those who will go and buy a Porsche. Yet the GTR has produced a worldwide furore for the simple reason that it is comfortably 'up there' with the best in many of these criteria - but completely blows away all oposition on price (and therefore value for money).

6. If you want to completely obliterate just about any other vehicle for speed and performance then buy a GTR and tune it - you've still save a fortune on your Porsche and you can now go much much faster on every kind of road.

And finally - the AMG 63 is an outdated loviathan, a wallowy armchair with a big engine - it handles like sh1t and was designed for fat americans to put their fat arses in a luxury car that wants to pretend it has sports performance. I've never driven one of course, (been a passenger once though), but I have read loads of reviews so what I say is the unequivocal truth.

I've loved this thread - thanks AMG dude - you are the biggest tosser I ever read!


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

when AMGdude says " I mean the Gt-R is a very nice car, but it's not on par with the porsche in terms of raw peformance, not to mention build quality or ride confort, like some guys on this forum imply. " he is quite right.

I have owned both and lived with both and the GT-R is far better in all criteria and on a completely different "par" to the Porsche. Spelling mistakes aside he’s demonstrating why he’s obviously NOT the kind of person we want in a GT-R and he should stick to his Chrysler boat. I have also owned and lived with a Chrysler badged Mercedes and it was the worst waste of money in my career. FAR inferior quality to the Land Rovers I have owned.


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## LennyGTR (Aug 15, 2009)

r34mspec said:


> No your right the last car jenson button owned was a bugatti veyron
> and if you read the article he is quoted as saying the gtr is 90% as much fun
> but 1/18 of the price. Amg is the new 6speed


Can someone point me in the direction of this article? I've seen the autocar picture in the other thread but no article?

Thanks


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Hey hey! Another pointless argument. Hooray!
amgdude, you are a twat! **** off!


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Na, I like him, it’s a free country..............................until we get t*sser like him in power .........oh, yeah, sh1t we have!!!!!!


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## gtrterry (Mar 9, 2009)

where is amg dude gone
im missing my 6 oclock fix on coming home from work
he must have ran out of articles:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:
:lamer:


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## GTR-SpecV (Feb 23, 2009)

amgdude go and play with your BALLS :clap:


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Kaizen said:


> I have an R35, a 993 GT2, another Porsche and some other things. I have owned several Porsches before.
> 
> Build quality: I would suggest that the Nissan is as good as the Porsche (which is good but not that good).


Compared to a 993 porsche maybe. But i don't think that's a proper comparison lol.



> Comfort: the 997T is more softly sprung and damped. It is more comfortable over bumps.


I'm glad we agree here. Is this the "other porsche" you were talking about ?



> Straight line: done perfectly, based on the test results we've all seen, the newly tweaked 997T will out accelerate a GT-R, now that they've spent two years at Zuffenhausen tweaking it.


More like, leave the GT-R in the dust: YouTube - Porsche Turbo (2010) vs Nissan GT-R Part 1 



> But:
> 
> 1) you better get everything 100% right in the 997 or the GT-R will be over the horizon (it's poise and traction are extraordinary, and FAR superior to the 997)


I don't really think that's a problem in the facelifted one. Just look at Chris Harris, he seems to agree: YouTube - New 911 Turbo



> 2) £1000 pounds later and the nissan is pretty much back on top, £5000 and there is NO contest at all


But that wouldn't be a fair comparison right ? And if the GT-R is so easily tuneable (not that the porsche isn't), why isn't it tuned from the factory to beat the crap out of the porsche, in STOCK form ? I'll tell you why, because after many hours of testing the Nissan engineers (like the ones at Porsche) have realised that adding more power is not very good for the car (less reliability, more lag, etc), so they decided to stick to "only" 480 bhp. Even the super-dooper V-spec version of the GT-R retains the same output, not a horsepower more ! Who do you explain this ?



> AMGDude seems not to understand that putting the power down is essential, the GT-R has a remarkable combination of traction and tranmission capabilities.


I understand this very well, but, as you can see from the vids above, the new turbo doesn't really seem to have a problem with putting the power down, does it ? I mean, a sub 8 second time to 100 mph from rest, IN THE WET, and while drinking coke lol, speaks volumes about this car's phenomenal traction AND ease of use. 



Rich001 said:


> Looks well amg dude not as fast as a 997.2 TT though  nor a GTR


Yeah, I know, but it's not meant to compete with those  It's more a GT car than a proper sportscar- very heavy, air suspension, definetely NOT what you'd like in a sports car. But the sound of the engine and the metal folding roof are well worth it I suppose :>

Anyway, if I want a sportscar, I can get the new SLS or the new Porsche turbo, albeit with some mileage to keep the price low (i've got the SL with 2700 miles for almost HALF the price of the new car).


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## GTR-SpecV (Feb 23, 2009)

i wonder how much porsche paid auto bild to make porsche a winner and car of the year..
stupid auto bild gtr was test without launch control and porsche with launch control and to test with wet condition both cars it's seem not professional..it should be wet and dry and circuit test as well. i think german press just dont like japananese cars.. i trust briton motoring journalist... GTR SwiTzer P800 will still cheaper than stupid porsche... i rather buy a Mclaren MP4-12c . 911 turbo not my cup of time as i had one before 996 gt2 and 997 gt2.. its fast with stupid price tag.. but no way it will be faster than tuned gtr. for the love of god .. i sold the stupid porsche and bought the R35. .


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

amgdude said:


> Compared to a 993 porsche maybe. But i don't think that's a proper comparison lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Amgdude dont believe everything you read in the press reviews.most of them dont tell you what you really want to know,most of them are biased and it shows. germans will always favour porsche,jap will always show gtr win,topgear is all over jaaaaags even if they find everything better in the other car at the end of the show they all chose aston martin of jags which are good cars for ...about a week and then start to fall apart(i dont have any ownership experience of jag or aston but this is what i have heard so i might be wrong).



> More like, leave the GT-R in the dust: YouTube - Porsche Turbo (2010) vs Nissan GT-R Part 1
> 
> I don't really think that's a problem in the facelifted one. Just look at Chris Harris, he seems to agree: YouTube - New 911 Turbo


This in it self speaks volumes of the gt-r handling capabilities.if you want a straight line monster there are many cars quicker than this,cheaper too but less than a handfull can take corner in such a way thats why i love the gt-r so much...also the fact there are too many speed cameras here heeh.love the g's in the cornering it tickles.

have you seen that ali g video where they drag race keeping it under the speed limit,it feels like that driving a performance car under 75mph.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Godspd said:


> This thread should be shut down!...what's the point arguing with a Porsche FANBOY...don't waist your time!


Actually I'm a AMG fanboy lol. But I happen to like porsche as well. In fact my new car will (probably) be a GT3, if it ever comes with PDK. Which is better than the turbo and the GT-R alltogether. 



fun2k said:


> If I am in the market for a high performance car that i can use daily ,i only have 3 options,audi r8,gt-r and 911 turbo.


How about the SLS ? Or the 458 Italia ? They say it's as livable as the audi R8 



> make it a 2+2 and you only have 2 cars to choose from. That and the fact that gt-r is half the price is down rite wrong in itself. if porsche drops the price id still buy the gt-r but if i had (ahem by mistake lol) bought a turbo id still be happy as this car is in no way worth 2 times a gt-r.


Ok, so from the price/performance perspective, the nissan is better value for money. But that does NOT mean it's the better car ! 



> From a technological quality stand point how is porsche better than nissan?


Well, maybe because the porsche's transmission doesn't DESINTEGRATE after 5 or so consecutive Launch controls ?!



> it has carbon fibre shaft,carbon underbody air diffuser,better 4 wheel drive system,better response from the engine(less lag more linear),better handling,more features inside (hdd, ipod, etc),dual clutch trans.
> 
> This is all comparing stock vs 997.1 turbo when gt-r was launched.


Dude, i thought we were talking about the facelifted turbo ! If you're talking about the old one, then I agree, the Gt-R is a better car, mostly because that one has a crappy automatic transmission.



> i dont remember carbon fibre being used anywhere in the turbo.


Who cares ? It still weights 150 kg less than the Nissan 



> granted quality of the interior is better in the turbo but then you have to pay extra for small pieces of leather everywhere which is just stupid.gtr had a few pieces of plastic which i didnt like (the aluminum looking plastic in the center consloe and that ugly black plastic on the side and around the starter button.
> 
> correct me if im wrong but i just dont see how the quality in the turbo is better???The only thing better is the ride compliance and thats it.


You said it yourself, like one sentence ago. The interior of the porsche is more luxorious, and has a better build quality overall. Ffs, just look at the new steering wheel, it's a work of art ! And it even has tiny lcd displays mounted on it, lol.




Kamae said:


> Oh - I just have to add my opinion to the most opinionated thread I ever saw! If I have it right I can sum up the clear thinking of AMG dud as follows:-
> 
> 1. There are easily as many reviews of GTRs vs Porches that have the GTR on top - AMG dude dismisses these professional journalists as idiots, but the Authors of the other articles where the Porsche comes out on top have it 'just right'.


I don't know what reviews you are talking about. I'm not talking about the pre-facelift 911 turbo, i'm talking about the 2010 model, which is practically a different car ! New engine, new transmission, new suspension settings, and so on, not to mention some clever technologies like the Porsche torque vectoring (PTV), or the clever Dynamic engine mounts. 




> 2. Whenever a Porsche is beaten by a GTR then the driver of the Porsche is by definition an idiot


In a straight line yes. And I think I explained quite clearly why. More low-end torque, less weight, no lag, engine in the back.



> 3. The laws of physics (or at least a few of them taken in isolation) will always outclass the laws of real life observation as it's clear that those undertaking the real life observation are either idiots or biased if they can't see how superior the Porsche is. Power output and mass alone prove that the GTR cannot beat most of the cars it has beaten (ooh, go figure!)


I'm still waiting for some videos to back-up those fanboy-ish claims. Otherwise, I have NO reason to believe that the GT-R is faster than a Ferrari Scuderia or a LP560 in a straight line. This is simply fan-boy bulls**t.



> 4. The guy who knows the most about performance cars in the world choses as his wheels....an AMG Merc - obviously !
> (I was going to add a comment here - but really - add your own!)


So what ? I never said I bought it because it is a "performance car". It's a GT car, and a cabrio at that, and it's a very nice car for cruising around and scaring the shit out of passers by, lol.



> 5. Car preference is a very personal thing. The looks, the badge, the image, the ride, the handling, the performance, the equipment, the interior space, the functionality, everyday usability etc etc. - and of course the price. After all of this process there are still those who will go and buy a Porsche.* Yet the GTR has produced a worldwide furore for the simple reason that it is comfortably 'up there' with the best in many of these criteria* - but completely blows away all oposition on price (and therefore value for money).


WAS ! Not anymore. Now it's a car that's *half a second* slower than the turbo, and that says it all. 



> 6. If you want to completely obliterate just about any other vehicle for speed and performance then buy a GTR and tune it - you've still save a fortune on your Porsche and you can now go much much faster on every kind of road.


Well, you can tune the porsche also so I don't think this tuning stuff is relevant. Plus, I don't think a small tuning company can acheive better tuning than the company that made the damn car in the first place. Sure, they'll get a few horse powers more, but the overall realibility of the car, and possibly the handling, will be diminished. That's why the Spec-V GT-R has the same output as the standard GT-R, not a horsepower more. 



> And finally - the AMG 63 is an outdated loviathan, a wallowy armchair with a big engine - it handles like sh1t and was designed for fat americans to put their fat arses in a luxury car that wants to pretend it has sports performance. I've never driven one of course, (been a passenger once though), but I have read loads of reviews so what I say is the unequivocal truth.


Haha, you're a funny guy. Actually, it's not at all wallowy, it's very composed 
Overall, it feels like a much smaller car than it actually is.



> I've loved this thread - thanks AMG dude - you are the biggest tosser I ever read!


Neah, that's too kind of you sir


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Godders said:


> when AMGdude says " I mean the Gt-R is a very nice car, but it's not on par with the porsche in terms of raw peformance, not to mention build quality or ride confort, like some guys on this forum imply. " he is quite right.
> 
> I have owned both and lived with both and the GT-R is far better in all criteria and on a completely different "par" to the Porsche. Spelling mistakes aside he’s demonstrating why he’s obviously NOT the kind of person we want in a GT-R and he should stick to his Chrysler boat. I have also owned and lived with a Chrysler badged Mercedes and it was the worst waste of money in my career. FAR inferior quality to the Land Rovers I have owned.


What spelling mistakes dude ? When you say "X is not on par with Y", you mean X is better than Y, or X is not quite at the same level of Y ? Anyway, my native language is not english so maybe I have made a few mistakes :>

Speaking of which, can you spell "Transfagarasan" ? Jeremy Clarkson couldn't, because his tongue stumbled every time he got to "f" 



GTR-SpecV said:


> amgdude go and play with your BALLS


Already did that, but thanks for teh advice ! By the way, do you want to play with them too or shall I put them back in their place ? It's getting kind of frosty in here you know..



> i wonder how much porsche paid auto bild to make porsche a winner and car of the year..
> stupid auto bild gtr was test without launch control and porsche with launch control and to test with wet condition both cars it's seem not professional..it should be wet and dry and circuit test as well.


Actually the drag strip race was carried out WITHOUT launch control (on either car that is). And the porsche clearly won that one. That said, the 0-60 times were achieved by using launch control on both cars, and porsche got to 60 HALF A SECOND faster. And you have to admit it, 3.1 s (3.3 to 62) on a WET pavement is pretty impressive shit !



> i think german press just dont like japananese cars.. i trust briton motoring journalist... GTR SwiTzer P800 will still cheaper than stupid porsche... i rather buy a Mclaren MP4-12c.


You rather buy a car that's not even in production yet ? Rofl.
I rather buy a 458 Italia.



> 911 turbo not my cup of time as i had one before 996 gt2 and 997 gt2.. its fast with stupid price tag.. but no way it will be faster than tuned gtr. for the love of god .. i sold the stupid porsche and bought the R35. .


And then you sold the even stupid*er* R35 and bought yourself a good-old-fashioned *minivan*. Right ?


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

My car is better than your car! And my Dad cud batter your Dad, coz my Dad is a policeman. Your mother was a hamster and your Dad smelt of eldaberrys!

amgdudette, you are a twat. Goodbye. Thanks for playing the weakest twat! :chairshot

:sadwavey:


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

amgdude said:


> How about the SLS ? Or the 458 Italia ? They say it's as livable as the audi R8


Thats why im telling you not to believe everything you read in a magazine.i had an f430 from about a week,you can hardly call it an everyday car.youll know when you drive it.



> Ok, so from the price/performance perspective, the nissan is better value for money. But that does NOT mean it's the better car !


No but its still a plus in my book.and you admit its a better car than the 997.1 turbo heeh.




> Well, maybe because the porsche's transmission doesn't DESINTEGRATE after 5 or so consecutive Launch controls ?


who said anything about reliability?? btw trasmission issues have been resolves with the new software. and it does 3.6 sec(3.5 claimed so its close) with new update as evident from inside line long term test car.

bring me anycar and i will break its transmission with abuse.i didnt abuse my gtr and it felt as solid as ever since the day i bought it.

i didnt abuse my turbo either but still it broke after only 2000km from new.talk about reliability of a car that has been in production since 50years and still you get rms(majority of gt3 have it) issues which according porsche is due to not driving you car enough lmao.




> Who cares ? It still weights 150 kg less than the Nissan


I was talking about [Quality] of engineering so i answered in that respect.
mentioning weight here is irrelevant ,we know how much it weighs.




> You said it yourself, like one sentence ago. The interior of the porsche is more luxorious, and has a better build quality overall. Ffs, just look at the new steering wheel, it's a work of art ! And it even has tiny lcd displays mounted on it, lol.


Yes but i also mentioned you have to (pay for it)tick all the extra options for leather in the turbo,otherwise its a lot of plastic everywhere.




> In a straight line yes. And I think I explained quite clearly why. More low-end torque, less weight, no lag, engine in the back.


i dont know where youre getting this from but (no lag,more low end torque???) again this is all from reading press reviews,if you actually drive a porsche turbo or even a cayenne turbo you will feel loads of low end(below 2200-2500 rpm) lag compared to cars like 135i,gtr or even x5m.

infact if you see drag videos on youtube the gt-r always accelerates quicker on throttle input.its called laaaag my friends.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

fun2k said:


> Thats why im telling you not to believe everything you read in a magazine.i had an f430 from about a week,you can hardly call it an everyday car.youll know when you drive it.


But I was clearly reffering to the *458 Italia*, not the f430..:nervous:

If you didn't know, this one has the same magnethorheological dampers (or something like that) as the R8 V10, and that's precisely why it's more suitable for daily use than the f430.



> No but its still a plus in my book.and you admit its a better car than the 997.1 turbo heeh.


I admit, yes, but it hardly makes any difference as that one is history now 



> who said anything about reliability?? btw trasmission issues have been resolves with the new software. and it does 3.6 sec(3.5 claimed so its close) with new update as evident from inside line long term test car.


So they're actually letting you now to use the launch control feature as much as you like, without breaking the warranty and most of all, the transmission ?!

Nissan drops Launch Control from 2010 GT-R — Autoblog



> bring me anycar and i will break its transmission with abuse.i didnt abuse my gtr and it felt as solid as ever since the day i bought it.


Using a feature implemented by the factory shouldn't really be called "abuse". Unless, that is, that feature is completely rubbish, as it is (or was) on the Nissan. I don't know if it's any better now, is it ?



> i didnt abuse my turbo either but still it broke after only 2000km from new.talk about reliability of a car that has been in production since 50years and still you get rms(majority of gt3 have it) issues which according porsche is due to not driving you car enough lmao.


Yes, i've heard about the RMS leackage issue. But supposedly that was fixed with the new engines. 

Anyway, I guess that's what happens when you put a RACING ENGINE in a street car ))



> I was talking about [Quality] of engineering so i answered in that respect.
> mentioning weight here is irrelevant ,we know how much it weighs.


The porsche uses light-weight materials too. It just doesn't need carbon-fibre to keep the weight down.



> Yes but i also mentioned you have to (pay for it)tick all the extra options for leather in the turbo,otherwise its a lot of plastic everywhere.


Really ? So the dash and seats are not leather in stock form ? I don't think that's true. 



> i dont know where youre getting this from but (no lag,more low end torque???) again this is all from reading press reviews,if you actually drive a porsche turbo or even a cayenne turbo you will feel loads of low end(below 2200-2500 rpm) lag compared to cars like 135i,gtr or even x5m.


I'm talking about the * facelifted* turbo, how many times do I have to say it until you get the point ? This one gets a new engine which has very little to NO lag at all, at this is what ALL reviewers had noticed. 



> infact if you see drag videos on youtube the gt-r always accelerates quicker on throttle input.its called laaaag my friends.


Whatever, i already said i don't really care about the old turbo.


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

amgdude said:


> But I was clearly reffering to the *458 Italia*, not the f430..:nervous:
> 
> If you didn't know, this one has the same magnethorheological dampers (or something like that) as the R8 V10, and that's precisely why it's more suitable for daily use than the f430.


A.If you didnt know reviews have also pointed out that the new car is a lot stiffer,about 20% infact. i dont care if it has air suspension stiffer is stiffer just like porsche saying vtg is lag free but was actually garbage marketing to fool people like you and me(who buy all that crap just by reading and watching reviews).

and B. i know you were talking about 458,stiffness has nothing to do with daily usability in regards to the f430 i was talking about since its already less stiffly sprung than a gt-r. as i said erlier you will know when you get to experience one first hand,its not a DD car by a mile.




> I admit, yes, but it hardly makes any difference as that one is history now


ohh that feels good :clap:



> So they're actually letting you now to use the launch control feature as much as you like, without breaking the warranty and most of all, the transmission ?!
> 
> Nissan drops Launch Control from 2010 GT-R — Autoblog


Yes and this is old news nov 2008.even insideline updated they car to the new ecu and have infact recorded better 0-60 times.and you dont have to shut off vdc.





> Using a feature implemented by the factory shouldn't really be called "abuse". Unless, that is, that feature is completely rubbish, as it is (or was) on the Nissan. I don't know if it's any better now, is it ?


There is a big difference between using a feature and abusing it.



> Yes, i've heard about the RMS leackage issue. But supposedly that was fixed with the new engines.
> Anyway, I guess that's what happens when you put a RACING ENGINE in a street car ))


i hope so.But thats what ppl said when 997s came out 996 already had that problem.i go to gt3 forums regularly and there are a lot of problems in that car,there was a customer who just took delivery of 2010 gt3,there was oil leaking from somewhere in the engine,was a minor problem but still it shouldnt have been.then theres the weak lsd which should have been improved in the new car but no.the breaks also crack etc..

and its not just gt3 other porsche also have rms issues,sometimes the car wont go into 2nd or 3rd gear.minor issues were resolved but my point is porsches also have lots of problems.theyre not as reliable as you may think.





> Really ? So the dash and seats are not leather in stock form ? I don't think that's true.


Yup.in the gt3 i ordered you have spec for full leather otherwise the dash is plastic.Guess you didnt know that reading from a magazine review heeh.



> I'm talking about the * facelifted* turbo, how many times do I have to say it until you get the point ? This one gets a new engine which has very little to NO lag at all, at this is what ALL reviewers had noticed.


I dont believe in those reviews ,they said the same thing about the first gen turbo(vtg was supposed to be lag free) before i bought it.i reserve my judgement until i get a hands on experience.even the gt2 has vtg and they admit themselves there is "more lag than turbo".so that means they new the turbo had lag but didnt admit.




> Whatever, i already said i don't really care about the old turbo.


just making a point posche turbo engines generally lag .the new dfi engines response remains to be seen.


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## Rich001 (Jul 13, 2008)

When you make your SL63 go fastest, do you pull it back till it clicks or keep pulling back after it starts clicking till you think it'll break before letting go.

I just wanted to know as I wasn't sure how LC works on the your AMG.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

fun2k said:


> A.If you didnt know reviews have also pointed out that the new car is a lot stiffer,about 20% infact. i dont care if it has air suspension stiffer is stiffer just like porsche saying vtg is lag free but was actually garbage marketing to fool people like you and me(who buy all that crap just by reading and watching reviews).


Ehm, as far as I understand the 20% added stifness refers to the structural rigidity of the car, and it has nothing to do with the suspension or the ride confort. Quote from the official press-release:



> The modular chassis is an all-new design. New alloys join the traditional aluminium, along with high-resistance aluminium extrusions, developed by the aviation industry, and innovative manufacturing processes, such as heat-forming. The aim was to keep weight down to the benefit of performance and handling. *The result is a chassis with improved structural rigidity, with torsional rigidity up 15 per cent compared to the F430, and beam stiffness up 5 per cent.*


So I guess that's a good thing 



> and B. i know you were talking about 458,stiffness has nothing to do with daily usability in regards to the f430 i was talking about since its already less stiffly sprung than a gt-r. as i said erlier you will know when you get to experience one first hand,its not a DD car by a mile.


Oh, so you're basically saying that the F430 rides better than the GT-R ? But if not ride confort was your concern with the 430, in terms of daily usability, what was exactly ? The ground clearance ?



> ohh that feels good :clap:






> Yes and this is old news nov 2008.even insideline updated they car to the new ecu and have infact recorded better 0-60 times.and you dont have to shut off vdc.


Ok then, I wasn't aware of that.



> There is a big difference between using a feature and abusing it.


Maybe but you have to admit that the launch control was flawed on the GT-R. Even Nissan admited this, or else they wouldn't have fixed it lol.



> Yup.in the gt3 i ordered you have spec for full leather otherwise the dash is plastic.Guess you didnt know that reading from a magazine review heeh.


So you ordered a leaky, unreliable GT3 after all, huh ? 

Anyway, the gt3 is in fact CHEAPER than the Turbo so I guess that's why you don't get full leather standard. Plus it's more of a track car, and that "stupid" (jeremy clarkson accent here) dashboard leather is adding some 50 grams to the car so I guess that's why they only offer it as an option )) 



> I dont believe in those reviews ,they said the same thing about the first gen turbo(vtg was supposed to be lag free) before i bought it.i reserve my judgement until i get a hands on experience.even the gt2 has vtg and they admit themselves there is "more lag than turbo".so that means they new the turbo had lag but didnt admit.


As far as i know, all turbo-charged engines have some sort of turbo-lag. Even the new one has it but it's not noticeable, unless you drive the manual version. If you drive the PDK though the turbo-lag is masked rather well, so you don't even know it's there. This is again info i've got from reading several online car magazines.



> just making a point posche turbo engines generally lag .the new dfi engines response remains to be seen.


Well, I hope you'll get a chance to drive one soon, and tell us GT-R fans (not ) what you think of it.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Rich001 said:


> When you make your SL63 go fastest, do you pull it back till it clicks or keep pulling back after it starts clicking till you think it'll break before letting go.
> 
> I just wanted to know as I wasn't sure how LC works on the your AMG.


To be honest, I only tried it once and it was a bit of a dissapointment. It doesn't really kick you in the back like I expected it too. Plus it's super complicated to acces the LC, i.e., you have to push like 5 buttons and alter too many settings in order to activate it. It's more like a shuttle launch than a car launch really. That's why I never bothered with it since, it's just not worth it. But the MCT transmission is excelent though. I don't understand why they didn't use it in the SLS !


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## Mikeydinho (Jan 30, 2009)

I say congrats to Mook and his wife (it was you yea?). You got married on my birthday:thumbsup:

All the best

Mikey


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

amgdude said:


> Ehm, as far as I understand the 20% added stifness refers to the structural rigidity of the car, and it has nothing to do with the suspension or the ride confort. Quote from the official press-release:


From the review i saw the guy mentioned the new car is 20% more stiffer and rigid.maybe you are right.




> Oh, so you're basically saying that the F430 rides better than the GT-R ? But if not ride confort was your concern with the 430, in terms of daily usability, what was exactly ? The ground clearance ?


Its hard to explain ,you get a lot of unwanted attention and that noise isnt exactly great for all occasions.ground clearance isnt an issue.




> Maybe but you have to admit that the launch control was flawed on the GT-R. Even Nissan admited this, or else they wouldn't have fixed it lol.


A lot of ppl in this forums have used it and not broken anything,those that did repeated(i.e abuse!) launches broke their transmissions,some of them i know were running mods.also the issue has been exagerated by the press,there are very few car that had trans failure so its not as if the whole production line is flawed. you know about my turbo which needed a rebuilt after only 2000km but im not shouting about it cuz i know there will always be flaws in the production line,no1 is 100% reliable.







> So you ordered a leaky, unreliable GT3 after all, huh ?


i have my fingers crossed.i know what im getting,i know all the problems the car might produce but i still want it for its performance.




> Anyway, the gt3 is in fact CHEAPER than the Turbo so I guess that's why you don't get full leather standard. Plus it's more of a track car, and that "stupid" (jeremy clarkson accent here) dashboard leather is adding some 50 grams to the car so I guess that's why they only offer it as an option ))


Ahhh but its still a lot more expensive than the gt-r which we are comparing to.and its not a track car,its a road car which you can use on the track.This car is not fully track ready ,brakes and lsd need to be upgraded.




> As far as i know, all turbo-charged engines have some sort of turbo-lag. Even the new one has it but it's not noticeable, unless you drive the manual version. If you drive the PDK though the turbo-lag is masked rather well, so you don't even know it's there. This is again info i've got from reading several online car magazines.


i heard manual car is less laggy than the tip but i havent driven it so no comment.




> Well, I hope you'll get a chance to drive one soon, and tell us GT-R fans (not ) what you think of it.


ofcoarse you will get my unbiased opinion


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

amgdude said:


> To be honest, I only tried it once and it was a bit of a dissapointment. It doesn't really kick you in the back like I expected it too. Plus it's super complicated to acces the LC, i.e., you have to push like 5 buttons and alter too many settings in order to activate it. It's more like a shuttle launch than a car launch really. That's why I never bothered with it since, it's just not worth it. But the MCT transmission is excelent though. I don't understand why they didn't use it in the SLS !


how is the tans on the sl63? when you ask for the next gear in manual mode how long does it take to change gear,and how smooth is it?

i love the zf transmission on bmw 135 and 335, infact its better than any ferrari or gtr bacause it has much better manners in trafic where as the others you have to modulate the throttle very carfully to prevent the car from ping pong. its not as quick as those trans(not far behind though) but for me its the perfect compromise for daily driving.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

fun2k said:


> From the review i saw the guy mentioned the new car is 20% more stiffer and rigid.maybe you are right.


Yes, but he was talking about the bodyshell: this new one is overall 20% more stiff (or rigid) than the 430's. But it fooled me too at first I must admit 



> Its hard to explain ,you get a lot of unwanted attention and that noise isnt exactly great for all occasions.ground clearance isnt an issue.


Sure, but that's what supercars are for. They are meant to attract attention...and envy, lol. But I agree, I don't think that's something you would like on a daily basis.



> Ahhh but its still a lot more expensive than the gt-r which we are comparing to.and its not a track car,its a road car which you can use on the track.This car is not fully track ready ,brakes and lsd need to be upgraded.


More of a track car than the turbo I meant 



> i heard manual car is less laggy than the tip but i havent driven it so no comment.


Tiptronic=crappy 5-speed automatic mercedes transmission. It's no wonder the manual car is (or was) more responsive. But with the new PDK, it's a different story alltogether..



> ofcoarse you will get my unbiased opinion


I bet we will  Until then, though, here's what the chaps from Evo Magazine have to say about the new engine:

"_The 3.8 is so massively flexible and responsive – the extra capacity and revised turbo set-up has allowed Porsche to ease back peak boost from 1bar to 0.8 for less lag and better driveability – it could probably get away with three speeds and a 5000rpm red line with little appreciable diminution in the violence with which it hurls you from one bend to the next._"



> how is the tans on the sl63? when you ask for the next gear in manual mode how long does it take to change gear,and how smooth is it?


It's pretty damn fast and veeery smooth, if you're a passanger you don't even notice it. 



> i love the zf transmission on bmw 135 and 335, infact its better than any ferrari or gtr bacause it has much better manners in trafic where as the others you have to modulate the throttle very carfully to prevent the car from ping pong. its not as quick as those trans(not far behind though) but for me its the perfect compromise for daily driving.


Good transmission indeed, but now they're replacing it with an 8 speed i've heard, which is kind of silly if you ask me.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

YouTube - 2010 Porsche does 0-60mph in 3.01s!!

Info: "Video taken using a calibrated, in car Video VBOX (Video VBOX - State of the art in-car video) shows how fast the new 2010 Porsche Turbo really is. They claim 0-100km/h in 3.4, it does it in 3.09s! 0-60 mph is in 3.01. Watch the g-force, which peaks at 1.23g as it accelerates off the line. Awesome acceleration."

You were saying ??


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

Mate listen 99% of all journalists reviews thats been written and televised in this country anyway all call this car the performance benchmark and yardstick.So Porsche now had to go back and work on a new turbo to (compete against the new benchmark )that can beat a gtr a few hundreths of a second on a drag strip by using LC and overboost(i dont know if they used this but it would be the only way it managed that time) just for them split seconds.Where was all this until the gtr came out,porsche was srill using a 5 speed auto until only a few months ago.All this and the turbo 2 is still 10 seconds slower round nurburg,now i dont care if i never go to a track just knowing the gtr can do all this is good enough and all for 59,400.There has never been a car that has created so much media and internet attention 90% from petrolheads appreciating this remarkable feat and then theres you the 10% attention seekers trying to blur the limelight,i would nt mind but you dont own either arguing your lost cause case on the Gtr owners forum.If you love porsche so much go on to one of their discussion forums and make lovley porsche love.Please!


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

amgdude said:


> Whoever says otherwise is defying basic logic. What's even more revolting though is that you're implying that Porsche engineers LIED when they quoted a 3.4 s 0-62 time for the PDK Sport-Crono 911 turbo. Why ? Because your petty little mind simply can't conceive that an other car can surpass your GT-R. Not even one that weights 100+ kg less, produces more power and has a MUCH fatter torque curve, like the 911 turbo has.


First of all the GTR has much better off the line traction as it has a better drive train - that's how it has such a good time from pull-away and that is where you power to weight ratio theory falls on its fat over priced arse.



amgdude said:


> Oh, and did I mention it costs twice as much !?


You are so GAY!!!! Finally you got something right but who cares. My watch costs twice what my pals Rolex cost - it does not tell the time any better so ticket price has no real baring.




amgdude said:


> because it's a much better car, from almost EVERY point of view:


 Oh no, back to be wrong again. 





amgdude said:


> looks, engine, transmission, ride confort, interior fit and finish, etc etc.


*Looks* is an opinion and like arseholes everyone has one.

*Engine* They both use DPI and are quite similar although they both have new tech not found in the other.

*Transmission* The GTRs is technically more advanced which is why it pulls from stand still so well and why it is quicker round the ring and through corners it feels more planted.

*Ride Comfort* GTR is harsh but the 911 is just plain damn crashy.

*Interior Fit and Finish* Are better in the 911 but that does not make up for the fact that the 911 is numb to drive and is not a communicative as the GTR which makes it a total failure.




amgdude said:


> Ok, so maybe the GT-R is a few seconds faster on the track, but who really gives a damn about track times when buying a ROAD car ? I surely don't.


Most of the people that bought the GTR over a 911 or want a car that is superb on a track - maybe that is why the 2009 F1 World Champ bought a GT-R over a 911.

Kp


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

I have to admit, there are some very tiresome views on here about the GTR.

1) Smugness of "it's cheaper than Ferrari / Lambo / other supercars therefore better"
2) It's got the fastest Ring time therefore it's better than the above mentioned cars

I don't get either of those points.

I've said this before, I love the car and plan to have to have one, but it certainly won't be because it's got a sub 8 minute Ring time or that it makes me feel good that I can pull away from a 911t at half the price. That's just childish. Mr porker man will probably not care anyway.

People get so excited about Ring times. The fact is that I doubt anyone on here is a racing driver and could extract anywhere near the performane which would make a Ring time a significant buying point.

So, enjoy, but don't compare it to an Itialian exotic!


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

Mark B said:


> I have to admit, there are some very tiresome views on here about the GTR.
> 
> 1) Smugness of "it's cheaper than Ferrari / Lambo / other supercars therefore better"
> 2) It's got the fastest Ring time therefore it's better than the above mentioned cars
> ...


To be honest some of it has to be taken in jest - My pal has a F430 and I would rather have the Rarri, sorry I would, so I hear your point. At the same time he hated the fact that the fat lardy boy Nissan spanked the Rarri round a track when we both know he is a way better driver than I am. 

What I do hate is the fact that so many 75K plus car owners want to put the GTR down becuase it does not have a high ticket price compred to theirs or the fact that it is a Nissan -that is so stupid but so comon.

The true petrol heads that own expensive cars get the GTR and dont bring the snobbery to the table that a lot of non-petrol heads do. 

Mr 911 does care that the GTR is a quicker car, he really does. Many 911 owners are elitest and it is all about the brand, when I sold my 911 to get the GTR one of the guys on the 911 forum said "I love the GTR but could never own a Nissan" which is a bad attitude but waht really pissed me off was the amount of other members that agreed with him. I will not buy another 911 becuase I really would hate to be associated with that group of people. I know they are not all like that but so many of them are and what's more it does seem to be the 911 boys, all the R8 and other marque owners dont seem to give the GTR so much stick so why should they.

I also agree with you that you cannot compare the GTR to a Rarri as they are so different to drive NA vs Turbo, RWD vs AWD, etc, etc. You can compare it to the 911TT though as they are similar in many ways and share a lot of the same charecteristics - the problem is due to the fact that the majorty of journos, petrol heads and people that have driven both but own neither all seem to prefer the GTR - that is not fiction but fact, you can find it in most mags and on nearly every forum (accept the 911 forum) 

With the 911TT you dont get many people stop and stare, take pictures on their phones or nudge their wifes when they drive past muttering "that's 
the new 911TT like you do with the GTR. I drove through London the other day and I was shocked by how many people made a fuss of the car - I even had a female taxi driver pull up next to me, beep the horn and ask "What it is, that is one of the nicest cars I have ever seen up here" When I told her it was a Nissan she thought I was winding her up and kept asking, it was only when I pointed to the badge in the middle of the wheels did she stop asking.

Kp


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

kpkpkp said:


> First of all the GTR has much better off the line traction as it has a better drive train - that's how it has such a good time from pull-away and that is where you power to weight ratio theory falls on its fat over priced arse.


How can a front-engined car have better off the line traction than a rear engined one with the same power ? In the porsche the engine pushes over the rear axle which is one of the reasons it accelerates HALF A SECOND or more faster to 62 mph than the much heavier GT-R. 150 kilos heavier to be precise ! 



> You are so GAY!!!! Finally you got something right but who cares. My watch costs twice what my pals Rolex cost - it does not tell the time any better so ticket price has no real baring.


Haha, so when someone gets something right that means he's gay ? Wonderfull logic, i must admit.

Regarding the watch analogy, that's like saying that you wouldn't like to own a ferrari f430 or a lp 560 because they won't get you any faster from A to B than, say, a Nissan GT-R. But in doing so you're ignoring the fact that they're infinetely more fun and rewarding to drive, and have a build quality and looks that the nissan can't match. Sure, the nissan is "almost" as fast as those cars and is a very capable track machine, but it has a weak engine note, an even harsher ride, crappy interiour, and looks like a pig (compared to those cars that is). And it weights like 300 kilos more, which means it's not as agile or pointy as those cars are. It compensates that by having a super rigid suspension, a very-fast transmission and some clever electronics that make it go faster 'round a track (that it normally would without those gizmos) but give it a play station game feel. But if you want to play games you can get a game console and a racing simulator are you're done for much less money than buying an actual car.
Ok, so maybe you don't feel the mighty G's like in the real car, but something tells me that snapping your neck while driving a GT-R on the track is NOT an enjoyable experience. Clarkson seems to agree :>



> *Looks* is an opinion and like arseholes everyone has one.


No it's not, and this is a boring clichee 



> *Engine* They both use DPI and are quite similar although they both have new tech not found in the other.


Maybe but if you compare the TORQUE CURVE the flat six engine is clearly superior to the V6 found in the nissan. It's 650 Nm from below 2000 rpm vs 580 from 3200 rpm. And turbo-lag is simply not an issue anymore for the 997.2 Turbo.



> *Transmission* The GTRs is technically more advanced which is why it pulls from stand still so well and why it is quicker round the ring and through corners it feels more planted.


More advanced than the PDK ? Or the tiptronic auto ? Because from what i've read the PDK is BY FAR the most advanced dual-clutch transmission fitted to a production car (excluding the veyron's of course).



> *Ride Comfort* GTR is harsh but the 911 is just plain damn crashy.


I don't know what you mean by "crashy", but in every comparison i've read they said the 911 is MUCH more confortable than the GT-R, which has a "organ-jiggling ride" (Edmunds). And the new revised turbo is even better.



> *Interior Fit and Finish* Are better in the 911 but that does not make up for the fact that the 911 is numb to drive and is not a communicative as the GTR which makes it a total failure.


Where did you get this info from ? Unless you give me a reliable source that says the porsche is number to drive or "less communicative" than the nissan, I think that's pure BS.

On the contrary, i've read many reviews which say that driving the nissan feels pretty much like playing a video game, because it's so easy to drive fast and so uninvolving in the process. Even Chris Harris admitted that.



> Most of the people that bought the GTR over a 911 or want a car that is superb on a track - maybe that is why the 2009 F1 World Champ bought a GT-R over a 911.


I don't think any 4000 lbs car is "superb" for the track. A Lotus is superb on the track. A gt3 is superb on the track. A scuderia is superb on the track. The GT-R, well, is excelent for achieving very fast laps (and snapping your neck in the process), but I recon it's not even half the fun as the other cars while doing it. And many people who have driven the car have said this. Fast ? Definetely YES. Fun ? Not really.


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

amgdude said:


> What spelling mistakes dude ? When you say "X is not on par with Y", you mean X is better than Y, or X is not quite at the same level of Y ? Anyway, my native language is not english so maybe I have made a few mistakes :>
> 
> aknowleged, sfiffer, peformance, confort need I go on...
> 
> ...


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

> Mr 911 does care that the GTR is a quicker car, he really does.


Except IT ISN'T 

Ok, so maybe if you compare it to the older 911 it was slighty faster, although i haven't seen any video to confirm it. But that's simply because that one had an inferiour transmission, with no Launch Control feature whatsoever (truth is, Nissan couldn't keep up with the Turbo had it didn't have LC! and indeed, it barely did 3.9 s to 60 without it). So it wasn't really what you'd call a fair fight, was it ??


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

amgdude, you are quoting Auto Bild TV, not exactly impartial now is it?

I work with Germans all the time, they still say the ME 109 is better than the spitfire today.... tosh

rear wheel drive, launch control stop talking and drive what ever flipping car you want slowly wherever.....

GTR + COBB will slay the beetle thing with the turbo, save a bunch of money off the line and round the corners.

before you say I'm cheating with cobb you will need the optional paddles on the beetle or you would stand no chance at all and you know this... yes I've driven porkers, nice car but the engine is in the wrong place, still goes light at the front before I run out of talent. GTR copes with my lack of talent so I'm faster in it

which is what i care about


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Godders said:


> aknowleged, sfiffer, peformance, confort need I go on...


Those are *typos* not spelling mistakes. At least not all of them 



> Anyway, you've not owned and lived with both cars, have you..... so you are limited to Clarkson’s weak neck and many second hand lame arguments.


Clarkson's "weak neck" was NOT meant to be an argument. More like an anecdote, which shows that having phenomenal traction in a road car doesn't necessarely mean it's an enjoyable car, especially if you're a fat middle aged man with a weak neck 

Altough i must confess, I never saw him snap his neck in any other car before or after the GT-R experience. So maybe his neck is fine afterall


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

now what's wrong with


> especially if you're a fat middle aged man with a weak neck


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

Mate i have to be honest with you,yu mumble your answers so much i dont understand your argument,if you love the 911t so much then go and buy one your arguing for a car you dont have or even driven you dont make sense.
Guys lets not give the new jealous troll any more air time
Mook you know what to do!!


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

"Jealous troll" ? Jealous on what, exactly ?

So if I say I have driven the turbo then you'll believe me ?! I'm afraid YOU don't make any sense. Sure I can lie and say i've driven (or that I own one), but that wouldn't really make any difference, would it ? So until I drive one, I will say what others who have driven it say. It's the same ****ing thing.


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

My gay comment was not because you were right it wad due to the fact you were having a pop on the basis that the 911 is better because it costs twice the price. My watch comment was pointing out that two expensive watches are both extremly good quality products and very well made but just because one is double the price it does offer double the performance.

The 911 looks old and dated and the GTR has a cutting edge design - but as I say that's just an opinion.

The 911 is numb, I had a C2S which was excellent and had a 997 997.1tt for a short while and it was numb. I have had a go in the 911.2tt and it is no better - I cannot prove it but I don't need to. I can afford both but bought a GTR and even though I could still sell mine and buy the 911 I won't as my GTR is far more fun to drive.

So you my friend are wrong, sound like a typical Porsche fan boy and to qoute another old phrase or two offer about the same amount of value to this forum as patio doors on a submarine or tits on a bull. 

The GTR will always be a better car than the 911TT until the day hell freezes over and Satan learns to ice skate.

So do one

kp


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

kpkpkp said:


> To be honest some of it has to be taken in jest - My pal has a F430 and I would rather have the Rarri, sorry I would, so I hear your point. At the same time he hated the fact that the fat lardy boy Nissan spanked the Rarri round a track when we both know he is a way better driver than I am.
> 
> What I do hate is the fact that so many 75K plus car owners want to put the GTR down becuase it does not have a high ticket price compred to theirs or the fact that it is a Nissan -that is so stupid but so comon.
> 
> ...


so true i agree with you all the way except the part about f430.when i had the turbo i too looked at f430's and it amazed me everytime.however ownership experinece was vastly different. its just not in the same category as the gtr and turbo. an f430 is not an everyday car(i prefer to drive my cars daily),you can compare it to an lp560 or murcielago but not these.


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

Funny you say that has the reason I don't own a Rarri is that both my pals that have them have other cars (one has a V8 R8 which is so good it is untrue) and the other has a 997 TT drop top (which even he says is not all that) for everyday drivers. They both echo you comments and say they are special in every way but are not an everyday car.

I can afford one good car but not two so the GTR wins, I did look at a baby lambo but so many people complain about the service it puts me off. I am tempted by the R8 as they are superb but nothing else tempts me.

Kp


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

amgdude said:


> How can a front-engined car have better off the line traction than a rear engined one with the same power ? In the porsche the engine pushes over the rear axle which is one of the reasons it accelerates HALF A SECOND or more faster to 62 mph than the much heavier GT-R. 150 kilos heavier to be precise ![\QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

kpkpkp & fun2k

I agree all the way to and he probably is gay LOL


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

amfdude hasn't even driven any car in question, most likely a 12 years old porker troll, why do we bother to respond.... let him go back to reading his mags while we drive are cars


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

> *My gay comment* was not because you were right it wad due to the fact you were having a pop on the basis that the 911 is better because it costs twice the price.


So in fact your comment was gay, and not me  Thanks for clearing that up.



> My watch comment was pointing out that two expensive watches are both extremly good quality products and very well made but just because one is double the price it does offer double the performance.


If it DOES offer double the performance, then what the heck are you arguing about ? And they tell ME I don't know how to spell LOL.

Ok, so you probably meant the other pricier watch doesn't offer double the performance, even tough it costs twice as much and has similar build quality as your Rolex. But that's a pretty shitty argument imho, as ALL watches, no matter the price, have the same performance. It's not like one watch is more accurate in showing the exact hour than another, is it ?

That said, in our case there is in fact a pretty substantial difference in terms of performance between the nissan and the porsche, not to mention cabin quality or ride comfort, or even engine noise ! The ONLY thing where Nissan is better is on the track, where despite it's weight it achieves blistering lap times, thanks to the super-rigid suspension and highly tuned chassis. But the 911 Turbo is NOT meant to be a track car, it's meant to be a ultra-high-performance car that you can use every day, which means it has a compliant ride and a luxurious interior that the Nissan can't match. So you're basically comparing apples to oranges. 

Speaking of build quality, how can you even compare the Gt-R's crappy plasticky cabin with that of the porsche ??

2009 Nissan GT R Interior Photo

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_1001_2010_porsche_911_turbo_review/photo_23.html

http://www.germancarzone.com/911/31...drive-test-drive-thread-carmag-autocar-5.html



> The 911 looks old and dated and the GTR has a cutting edge design - but as I say that's just an opinion.


The front end of the 911 looks dated indeed, I'll give you that. But the rest of the car is pretty sleek imho. MUCH sleeker than the GT-R. Anyway, is it me or the Gt-R looks like a freakin rabbit front the front ? It sure looks like it to me.

So what I'm saying is that the front design is lame on both cars. I mean, the porsche looks like a stupid beetle and the nissan looks like a silly rabbit. I don't think any of us can brag about this, can we ? 



> The 911 is numb, I had a C2S which was excellent and had a 997 997.1tt for a short while and it was numb.


Ok, so maybe it's numb in comparison to the C2S. But in comparison with other, heavier AWD cars, like the GT-R, I don't think that's the case. In fact I bet the 911 Turbo has a much better steering feel than the nissan. After all, it's a porsche !



> I have had a go in the 911.2tt and it is no better - I cannot prove it but I don't need to.


Hehe, the car was launched like, 2 months ago, and you already had a go in it ?? In your wettest dreams maybe.



> I can afford both but bought a GTR and even though I could still sell mine and buy the 911 I won't as my GTR is far more fun to drive.


Than the previous turbo maybe. This new one is much sharper, better handling, better steering, better engine response, etc. And unless you provide some pictures i won't believe you've driven it. 



> So you my friend are wrong, sound like a typical Porsche fan boy


So if I'm a porsche fan-boy, then what does it make you ? An objective non-nissan fanboy dude ? LOL.



> and to qoute another old phrase or two offer about the same amount of value to this forum as patio doors on a submarine or tits on a bull.


:blahblah:



> The GTR will always be a better car than the 911TT until the day hell freezes over and Satan learns to ice skate.


And double :blahblah: 




Steve said:


> kpkpkp & fun2k
> 
> I agree all the way to and he probably is gay LOL


Of course, anyone who thinks there are better cars than the GT-R is gay. Even though he can prove his claim with actual FACTS, like superior acceleration, superior steering, superior transmission, superior cabin quality, superior ride, iconic sports car heritage and all that shit that doesn't really matter when you're a Nissan fan boy lol.

Oh, and did I mention it looks and sounds better too (except the front which is weak on both cars) ? No, nissan fanboy, not the GT-R, it's the 911 I was talking about, remember ? 



Robbie J said:


> amfdude hasn't even driven any car in question, most likely a 12 years old porker troll, why do we bother to respond.... let him go back to reading his mags while we drive are cars


Yes, yes, you go ahead and drive "are" cars, lol.


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

Again you sound rediculous arguing your little heart out for a car you dont own,
your persistant is starting to sound like sour grapes now please go and annoy the corvette forum.People lets not give this loser any more time!!!!!!!!


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

@amgdude

Stop forming your opinions from reading magazines, and maybe go and drive both the 911 and the GTR. Even better would be to actually spend some time on a track in order to understand what makes any car tick.

That would be a better way to spend you time than regurgitating other people's opinions on a forum which has nothing to do with you.

You come here spouting all this nonsense based on exactly what? Reading magazines? Jesus, anybody with an ounce of self regard would be embarrassed to respond over and over again about something you know absolutely nothing about.

Until that time you are just another internet hero with zero personal experience to back up your borrowed opinions.

So, please, take your ****less arguments to another forum which you might actually have an honest opinion.


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## Godders (Oct 7, 2009)

... I'm not going to read this thread, on the basis that amgdude is a class A1 t**t who's never driven a car under discussion and is best left to his C180. It's not worth the energy wasted pressing the keyboard. Let him save up his paper round and buy his beetle. Then he can crawl back under a rock.


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

amgdude
drive the flipping cars

all you views of interior and driving types are null and void as you are taking crap from mags and have no direct experience 

I've driven the old porker turbo and the GTR on the track and on road, the interior of my 18month old GTR is nice place, you have nothing but some gezza who writs for a mag to base some wild view on.

I've not seen you respond to any comments of mine as you have no first hand facts, true?

R


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

911 feels dated interior 

not just my view, couple of jornos said the same


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

AMGDUDE - you are clearly a complete **** who has not driven either car - all 997 TTs are blunt or numb, any Porsche fan knows this. I am a Porsche fan and my 911 was the best car I ever owned in terms of fun and enjoyment before I got the GTR. 

Both my pals that own/owned a 997TT say they are not all that and both complain about the steering feel or lack of it - if you look at their previously owned car list is probably covers most things up to a the Zonda or Carrera GT and they are both excellent drivere. One of them is the biggest 911 fan I know and could tell you most of the differences between each incarnation of the 911 and really knows his stuff - he actually gave me one of his for the weekend which led to my 911 purchase.. Have you ever owned a current 997TT or GTR or are you comments just based on what you have read and not real life experience.

I am not rich but I am lucky enough to work in IT which means we get to get involved in everything from the launches of cars to the launches of planes and F1 teams. You cannot prove or disprove my comments yet I can. 

Can you prove you have owned or even driven any of the cars you talk about as so far all you can comment on is what you have read or technical specs which says to me that actually your are just spouting other peoples opinions and not your own on everything except the look of the cars.

I also wonder what cars you have owned or currently own as a lot of your comments do not sound like they are coming from a driver of these sorts of cars. 

You actually remind me of the sort of person that Clarkson goes on about talking through your adenoids and being a fully fledged member of the morris marina owners club that sits in the pub saying "did you know that actually the 911 is a far superior design to the GTR"

Kp


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

I never thought this thread would be so controversial when I started it. I just thought people would be interested to read the article. Forgive my ignorance but what do people mean when they describe the comments of others as 'gay'? As I understood it that word originally meant bright and happy as in "keep the yuletide gay" and then came to mean homosexual. Has the word now taken on a third meaning?


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

r34mspec said:


> Again you sound rediculous arguing your little heart out for a car you dont own,
> your persistant is starting to sound like sour grapes now please go and annoy the corvette forum.People lets not give this loser any more time!!!!!!!!


Stop saying that nissan is a better car than porsche and then I'll go. Just quit fooling yourselves and admit the evidence. Why is it so hard to admit that a 70 k car is not as good as a 140k one, I just don't get it.



charles charlie said:


> @amgdude
> 
> Stop forming your opinions from reading magazines, and maybe go and drive both the 911 and the GTR. Even better would be to actually spend some time on a track in order to understand what makes any car tick.


There is no such thing where I live. In fact, as you've probably seen on Top/gear, we don't have highways either  Altough we have "the best road in the world", lol.



> That would be a better way to spend you time than regurgitating other people's opinions on a forum which has nothing to do with you.


What "opinions" are you talking about !? The fact that the new 911 accelerates faster (by a half a second or so) than the GT-R ? The fact that the porsche rides better ? The fact that the porsche has a way better interior ? My friend, those are not opinions, those are FACTS.



> You come here spouting all this nonsense based on exactly what? Reading magazines?


Based on professional reviews, and common sense, yes. And you do too, in many cases, but don't admit it. You haven't driven a Veyron but you can swear it's faster than any other production car on earth, based on what other people say. So what exactly is the difference between you and me ? 



> Jesus, anybody with an ounce of self regard would be embarrassed to respond over and over again about something you know absolutely nothing about.


So you're saying that if someone has no first-hand experience with something, he can't possibly know anything true about it ? I guess school is overrated then, 'cause it too teaches many things that you will never get to experience first hand. You just trust them because other people, who are specialised in those things, say they are so. Well, that's precisely the case with me and automotive journalists. I trust them because that's what they do for a living, and they can easily loose their reputation if they talk bollocks about a car. Sure, they can be subjective in judging a car's looks or other emotional things like "driving pleasure", but surely they can't be ALL subjective about THE SAME car in the SAME way. That is simply impossible, and that's why, after reading several magazines which state the same thing, I can put my finger down and undoubtely say that thing is right. 



> Until that time you are just another internet hero with zero personal experience to back up your borrowed opinions.


No, but I can back it up with PROFESSIONAL reviews, with of course the condition they don't contradict each other*. And in the case of the 911 and the GT-R, they don't. They all say the 911 feels faster, nimbler, more luxorious, and much more comfortable than the bone crushing Gt-R on the road, while the GT-R feels more planted and can go faster in curves. So by this I understand that porsche is the better car for the road, while the nissan remains the better car for the track. But like I've already said the 911 turbo is NOT meant to be driven on a track, for that porsche has the GT3/GT3 RS, which is THE BEST track car money can buy. So porsche wins no matter how. 


*- and that is even better, because my limited experience with performance cars doesn't really recommend me to make comparative claims, while the experienced car journalist can!


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

So you have not driven either car then have you. You have already mentioned you have little experience of these sort of cars yet you want to come on to a forum and argue with many people that do own one of the cars that you refer to. These people will mostly have more experience with cars of this class and are talking from personal experience not the experience of another.

I understand there is a a degree of loyalty to the car you own but I do not see why you argue so strongly when you clearly do not own or have not driven either of the cars.

Kp


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Godders said:


> ... I'm not going to read this thread, on the basis that amgdude is a class A1 t**t who's never driven a car under discussion and is best left to his C180. *It's not worth the energy wasted pressing the keyboard.* Let him save up his paper round and buy his beetle. Then he can crawl back under a rock.


So WHY are you wasting your energy then ? 

By the way, have you seen my C180 ? I've put a picture of it several pages ago but if you haven't seen it here it is: 

:Imageshack - 1000479h


I have to admit, i have tuned it a bit since then so now it looks like a SL63 AMG 




RobbieJ said:


> amgdude
> drive the flipping cars
> 
> all you views of interior and driving types are null and void as you are taking crap from mags and have no direct experience


Ok. So I can't say that a Rolls has a better interior than your Gt-R, because, as you put it, i'm taking crap from mags and have no direct experience. Riiiight...)



> I've driven the old porker turbo and the GTR on the track and on road, the interior of my 18month old GTR is nice place, you have nothing but some gezza who writs for a mag to base some wild view on.


I have the internet lol and judging by the pics the interior of the Gt-R is simply not nice, nor luxurious, like the porsche's is. And i'm talking about the new porker turbo..



> I've not seen you respond to any comments of mine as you have no first hand facts, true?


No, but I realised I can't argue with someone who says he is right because he says so.
I say i am right and I can back this claim up by quoting several reputed car magazines which say the same thing. You can only quote yourself and your mates who have never driven a 911, not to mention the revised 911 turbo, but are sure they're car is better. Why ? Because they say so.

What i'm saying is that you and the other GT-R praisers out-here are NOT an objective source, and can't be taken as an authority, whereas professional car testers can !

But don't get me wrong, I too think that the Gt-R is a technologically more advanced car than the previous 911 turbo, and therefore better. But that's just not the case anymore with the 997.2 turbo. That car has all the tech that the Nissan has, and some more !


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

You drive a car that has the power all tied up and held back with the same type of gear box my wife has on her 4x4 and similar traction control - I would have had more respect for your opinion if you had driven a 180. You had the money to buy a really good car and you bought that - OMG what little credibility you had has now gone.

The point you made about the new newer 911 interior is also wrong. The new one is almost identical to that in the 997.1 and it is not that great - this is the same interior that was found in the 997 at launch in 2004. 

This is not from a mag review the top one is from mine look . . .










look new one I nabbed from PH









They are the same - for 70K I would have expected better, the Caymen is a 40K car and its interior is on par - look that the one in your merc it is better than any found in a 911.

Sorry you are soooooooooooooooooooo wrong I feel sorry for you - you are a weakest link.

Goodbye.

Kp


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## Rich001 (Jul 13, 2008)

axolotl said:


> I never thought this thread would be so controversial when I started it. I just thought people would be interested to read the article. Forgive my ignorance but what do people mean when they describe the comments of others as 'gay'? As I understood it that word originally meant bright and happy as in "keep the yuletide gay" and then came to mean homosexual. Has the word now taken on a third meaning?



Don't be gay about it:thumbsup:


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

merc boy your so sad.
The gtr is soo good it causes people from america to come on forums in england and go into depth how it is not.How many nerves has the gtr touched to get this much publicity,its true as in the word from mr Sutcliffe from Autocar the Gtr is still King!


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

"Don't be gay about it"
lol if i were gay i might have a witty riposte to answer you with like an Oscar Wilde or a Stephen Fry but since I'm straight and dumb I have no idea what you're talking about


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## Rich001 (Jul 13, 2008)

I wonder why if you have a SL63 and have a fair bit of money you didn't buy a 911 in the first place and then waste your time by registering on a car forum (for enthusiasts) which you do not like to slag off their cars by saying that a car you don't own, nor have never driven is better when if that was the case we would all have 911's. 

You are trying to convince people who have previously owned these 911's and know from experience that you are wrong.

Why do you bother???? You speaketh the shitteth


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

My wife said it best . . . 

"If that bloke has can afford 100K Merc then why did he not spend the 100K on the 911 he loves so much or he just pissed off coz he bought the wrong car"

Kp


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

maybe he loves the merc even more......still I don't understand why he would want to join a GT-R forum to proclaim his love of porsche


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

Coz he is Gay - even drives a gay car. I hear Dale Winton drives the same car.

Kp


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

kpkpkp said:


> Coz he is Gay - even drives a gay car. I hear Dale Winton drives the same car.
> 
> Kp












.


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

kpkpkp said:


> You drive a car that has the power all tied up and held back with the same type of gear box my wife has on her 4x4 and similar traction control - I would have had more respect for your opinion if you had driven a 180. You had the money to buy a really good car and you bought that - OMG what little credibility you had has now gone.


Lol, I think you don't know shit about cars if you can say such enormities about the SL AMG's trans. It's not the same type as that on the ML or whatever you're wife drives, it's a wet multi clutch transmission with no torque converter (for faster response and better efficiency) which has been praised by almost all car magazines for it's superb capabillity, especially in manual drive. FACT. So STFU.

_"Perhaps the most compelling element in the SL63’s case for sports-car recognition, though, is its new MCT (multi-clutch technology) transmission [see page 3]. A variation on the Benz seven-speed automatic, the AMG automated manual is at least as good as any transmission of this type we’ve seen, including Audi’s DSG, and may be the best of them all. The key operating element is full manual mode, one of five presets, distinguished by the letter “M” on the dial.

Manual is an accurate label. In that mode, the shifts are right-now quick going up or down the progression, with downshifts accompanied by a throttle blip. It’s hard to imagine anyone managing quicker upshifts with a manual gearbox, and more important, the crisp engagements fortify the sense of involvement that’s germane to sports-car fun. We wish the shift paddles were in fixed position, rather than rotating with the steering wheel, but aside from that, we’re sold." _

2009 Mercedes-Benz SL63 AMG - Quickening the Shift Pace - Car and Driver

Do you now see why reading car reviews is actually a good thing ? Because you don't look like a dumb-ass on a forum talking about things you are obviously not aware off, that's why.

Truth be told, brilliant transmission or not, i would have still bought the SL, because it's such a fun car to drive, and the AMG tuned 7G tronic that you get on lesser cars like the C63 is very good too (it's not the same as the one in your's wife's ML, it's tuned by AMG to comply with the huge torque of it's engines, so you're wrong again) The engine, the noise, the wind rushing through your hair (if you have any), what a pure driving joy ! Don't believe me ? Just watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7yuo6JDK7Y




> The point you made about the new newer 911 interior is also wrong. The new one is almost identical to that in the 997.1 and it is not that great - this is the same interior that was found in the 997 at launch in 2004.


Dude, c'mon...i mean really, who are you kidding ?

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo Interior View Photo

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo Cockpit Photo

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo Seats Photo

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo interior Photo Car and Driver - (303636)

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo interior Photo Car and Driver - (303647)

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifter and sport plus control Photo Car and Driver - (303648)

Just look at that gorgeous red leather interior ! By the way, can you choose a different color on the GT-R, other than BLACK ? Not for the leather of course (cause it doesn't have any), but for the plastic leather emulation thing. 




> This is not from a mag review the top one is from mine look . . .


Ok, that one looks a little dated I admit (maybe because the car you have IS dated), but it still looks better than the GT-R's. And prolly feels better to touch too. But this only you can tell 



> They are the same


They are NOT the same, wtf man are you blind ? Different wheel, different switchgear, different stiching, bigger nav screen, nicer finish etc. Ok, so maybe the overall look is pretty similar , but that's normal because it is only a FACELIFT. It's not like they started from the ground up and came with the same interior. They just tweaked the existing one and made it better. And as far as I can see, they did a great job !



> for 70K I would have expected better, the Caymen is a 40K car and its interior is on par - look that the one in your merc it is better than any found in a 911.


Again, this is NOT a whole new car. Sure the interiors are similar, but they're not by any means the same. As you can see, the new one is much improved.



> Sorry you are soooooooooooooooooooo wrong I feel sorry for you - you are a weakest link.


Except i'm right, and you know it 



> Goodbye.


Ok.


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

just looked it up.... dale winton drives a bentley convertible


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

Face it you are just another person that spent 100K on a car only to then discover that the GTR costs nearly half as much but is twice as good and now you spend you days trying to convince us otherwise.

Kp


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## kpkpkp (Dec 1, 2007)

axolotl said:


> just looked it up.... dale winton drives a bentley convertible


My bad, Dale must have upgraded.

I have just seen this on the AMG 63 Review . . . Despite tipping the scales at a hefty 1970kg, the SL63 AMG possesses monumental acceleration in lower gears. Mercedes-Benz claims it will hit 62mph in just 4.6sec.

So you car is heavier than our GTRs and it is also slower 4.6. - Dont ever race a GTR will you.

Kp


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## r34mspec (May 30, 2007)

the only thing i can think of is merc boy lost his virginity to his german boyfreind in a beetle,his boyfreind then dumped for a japanese lady boy here llies his frustration.


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## Robbie J (Jan 8, 2005)

porker is dated and ugly on the inside, first hand

end of topic










you think that looks good? yuk


more interested on the drive


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Rich001 said:


> I wonder why if you have a SL63 and have a fair bit of money you didn't buy a 911 in the first place and then waste your time by registering on a car forum (for enthusiasts) which you do not like to slag off their cars by saying that a car you don't own, nor have never driven is better when if that was the case we would all have 911's.


Because, like I said, we don't have any highways here and most of the roads are straight, poorly paved and not necessarely sportscar demanding, so buying a porsche in this kind of conditions is simply RIDICULOUS. A comfortable GT cabrio car, on the other hand, is just about PERFECT for this kind of roads. But don't be fooled by the fact it's a mercedes lol, this one has the firmest suspension setting of all AMG's (except the c63), so when the road gets twisty it's huge fun as well ! Ok, maybe not Gt-R or 911 levels of fun, but fun nonetheless.



> You are trying to convince people who have previously owned these 911's and know from experience that you are wrong.


In case you haven't noticed by now, i never said that the previous turbo is better than the Gt-R. In fact, I think I said the exact opposite, like 5 times or so. 
But when you're a fanboy I guess you don't notice this kind of subtleties anymore. So how many times do I have to say it, until you get the point ?

GT-R > previous 911 turbo, BUT that doesn't mean GT-R > *current* turbo; which btw none of you have actually driven, but already say it's inferior to the nissan, based on your experience with previous turbo. Which doesn't make any sense at all !



> Why do you bother???? You speaketh the shitteth


Because I love how fanboys call me gay when they run out of arguments. Not that they had any to begin with 



kpkpkp said:


> My wife said it best . . .
> 
> "If that bloke *has can* afford 100K Merc then why did he not spend the 100K on the 911 he loves so much or he just pissed off coz he bought the wrong car"
> 
> Kp


Your wife doesn't know how to spell, lol.



axolotl said:


> maybe he loves the merc even more......still I don't understand why he would want to join a GT-R forum to proclaim his love of porsche


Because when I move out of this shitty country that's what I'll get ! Unless of course Nissan makes a REAL GT car (without the R; as in, without the Racing crap bullshit! ffs, i don't want a track car, I want a STREET car) with upgraded interior, less weight, more powerfull engine, that can keep up with the porsche and have a GT-feel to it, not a super-harsh rice mobile feel like the current GT-R has. But by then presumably Porsche will already have introduced the 997's succesor, the 998, and Nissan would be forced to go back to the drawing board. So I guess I'll stick with porsche lol.


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

try to see it our way....we drive R35s...I've just driven one today. If I understand what you have said correctly you haven't driven one and yet you're trying to lecture us about what it feels like to drive our cars.....ok, but are we boverred...do our faces look boverred?


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

kpkpkp said:


> Coz he is Gay - even drives a gay car. I hear Dale Winton drives the same car.


Yes, yes, gay car, i know, i know 

By the way, can you hear the gay car coming ? You made it _very_ angry with your comments so now it's coming to rape your rabbit faced Gt-R in the ass, lol.



kpkpkp said:


> My bad, Dale must have upgraded.
> 
> I have just seen this on the AMG 63 Review . . . Despite tipping the scales at a hefty 1970kg, the SL63 AMG possesses monumental acceleration in lower gears. Mercedes-Benz claims it will hit 62mph in just 4.6sec. So you car is heavier than our GTRs and it is also slower 4.6


Oh noes, so a car based on a shortwheelbased S-class, fitted with a 6.2 liter engine, airmatic adjustable suspension and with a metal folding roof on top, is heavier (and therefore slower) than a track tuned car with a solid top, that rides like a rock. Now, really, who would have thought ?! 




> Dont ever race a GTR will you.
> 
> Kp


Well, that should be easy because no one is stupid enough to buy one where I live. They have audi R8's though, but their little revvy engines are no match for the mighty 6.2 liter (which is also kind of revvy by the way). Not by a long shot.


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

oh then it's lucky GT-Rs don't have asses then isn't it.... "A quadruped of the genus Equus (E. asinus), smaller than the horse, and having a peculiarly harsh bray and long ears."


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

Really ? I actually think it's a shame they don't have asses.
My car would have been much happier if they did, lol. Now it is a bit dissapointed, driving all to way to Britain and finding that them GT-R's have no asses..

But surely, the Gt-R owners must have asses. I mean, how can they sit in the car, if they have no asses ?


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## amgdude (Dec 14, 2009)

"*New Porsche 997 Turbo at the world press launch in Estoril, Portugal accelerating from 0-200km/h. In car video and data provided by the new Racelogic Video VBOX Lite (Video VBOX - State of the art in-car video) which was the official video and timing equipment supplied by Porsche, they were using 8 in total. This was the PDK version with the Sports Chrono Package and is demonstrating the superb launch control facility. We did 7 such launch control starts, one after the other, and they were all timed at 3.21s, 3.24s, 3.20s, 3.27s etc. Very repeatable, and seemingly bomb-proof! This was the cabrio version which is a bit heavier than the coupe.*" 

YouTube - Unbelievable acceleration - New Porsche 997 Turbo doing 0-60 in 3.08s!

So it appears that even the cab 911 is faster than the GT-R, and by a fairly good margin I might say ! In fact it's faster than any other car out there, save for the Veyron, which has twice the power and costs 10 times as much. And goes like 10 miles before you have to refuel it. Not exactly an everyday proposition, but hey, when you're the sheik of the United Emirates I don't think that's really a problem. So having this in mind I might go ahead and argue that the new 911 turbo (besides being a better car), is even better value for money than the GT-R. But I won't, because then you'll say I'm gay (and I don't think I could possibly endure such heavy, articulated critic from you anymore, could I ? ). 

Anyway, have you seen this video ? Is very nice presentation of new 911 turbo (now I talk like Borat, I don't know why; maybe because I'm GAY :bawling. The music and presentation are simply AWESOME ! Oh yeah, and the cars rock too :thumbsup:


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## fun2k (Dec 3, 2008)

amgdude said:


> 2009 Mercedes-Benz SL63 AMG - Quickening the Shift Pace - Car and Driver
> 
> Do you now see why reading car reviews is actually a good thing ? Because you don't look like a dumb-ass on a forum talking about things you are obviously not aware off, that's why.
> 
> ...


nice sound,love the quick shifts.one question though, why didnt you get the r8?




> Dude, c'mon...i mean really, who are you kidding ?
> 
> 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo Interior View Photo
> 
> ...


nice interior but you pay extra for all that.the pdk is optional,the steering, the center console in leather or carbon,the seats and backrest are leather,the red leather is also optional,bluetooth,phone capability.all this is not cheap m8.and without these options the porsche interior is not that nice.

oh and i think you can have white seats in the gtr :clap:



> Ok, that one looks a little dated I admit (maybe because the car you have IS dated), but it still looks better than the GT-R's. And prolly feels better to touch too. But this only you can tell


Now dont be biased the gtr interior is much better than this, this is without any options im guessing?

next time i sit in either i will thouch everything and tell you which is better lol



> They are NOT the same, wtf man are you blind ? Different wheel, different switchgear, different stiching, bigger nav screen, nicer finish etc. Ok, so maybe the overall look is pretty similar , but that's normal because it is only a FACELIFT. It's not like they started from the ground up and came with the same interior. They just tweaked the existing one and made it better. And as far as I can see, they did a great job !


Actually the only difference between the 997.1 and .2 are the steering and nav screen.the old nav screen had that volcano grey color which was ugly thank god they changed that.the seat backrest are still plastic,where as in the super duper luxury rolls that we have,i mean gt-r ofcoarse has leather

one thing about interior in the turbo is that all there cheaper cars have the same one,even the regular boxter has a similar interior.it will also porlly get the same nav screen.

oh and one more thing i want to add,the turbo sound like ass period.gt-r sounds better comparativly so thats1+:squintdan


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Closed.

Another pointless and endless GTR vs Porsche thread. There's plenty of these on every other forum in the world, so if anyone simply wants make that argument then go there.


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## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

However did I miss this one!


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