# RB26 Drive-by-wire



## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Hey folks, just been mulling over my upcoming (next year!!) Syvecs S8 install. I see Ryan extols the virtues of drive-by-wire and this got me thinking about an RB26 application.
Now, pedal-wise I don't see this as a big deal as it should be simple to add a potentiometer and some sort of spring mechanism (for 'feel') to the existing R32 arrangement. The problem comes in the control module....
All the DBW cars I have seen so far use an electronic butterfly assembly to control a single  throttle butterfly. In stock form, the GTR uses independent throttle bodies so this rules out controlling the butterflies directly. The most obvious method of actuation would be to have an appropriate motor grafted onto the throttle linkage assembly, probably in place of the stock TPS.
The whole idea intrigued me and got me thinking as the S8 can handle DBW without raising a sweat..I can see some of the benefits of doing this and think that dragging our cars into the 21st century aint a bad thing 

Anyone had similar thoughts or gone further and actually experimented with a DBW system on an RB26/Skyline application??? 

TT


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Some BMW M cars use DBW and single throttle bodies. Pretty sure that the V10 in the old M5/6 has ten throttle bodies and they are DBW. Maybe the straight six in the 1M - not sure.

Would make cruise control easy though I doubt that would be any use to you! Downshift blips might be useful and help speed up changes though.


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## asiasi (Dec 22, 2007)

MattJ has done it on his 33.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

asiasi said:


> MattJ has done it on his 33.


Really???...must have missed that!




> Would make cruise control easy though I doubt that would be any use to you!


DBW gives you a lot more potential do do other stuff....better traction control, flat-shifting, rev-matching etc. On the wish-list is a sequential paddle-actuated 'box so I can see it being of more use then..

TT


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## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

On my Supra, I used an LS7 DBW throttle body, mated to a GM pedal - both of which Ryan calibrated for me on the Syvecs (first Supra to do this I think!). Worked beautifully.

I can get you part numbers, etc if you wish, just PM me.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Email Phil at NZEFI, [email protected] 
He runs a flyby wire throttle on his RB30 powered S14 with a Link G4/ViPec computer.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Sub Boy said:


> Email Phil at NZEFI, [email protected]
> He runs a flyby wire throttle on his RB30 powered S14 with a Link G4/ViPec computer.


Thanks Chris, Might just do that!!

TT


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## .::TopSky::. (Nov 4, 2010)

Interesting...

Make sure to post the update here


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## skylion (Apr 1, 2007)

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'm interested in running this on my GTR with Life Racing F88, I'm running a Q45 single throttle body at the moment. Any tips/advice on parts needed to accomplish this?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

tarmac terror said:


> DBW gives you a lot more potential to do other stuff....better traction control, flat-shifting, rev-matching etc. On the wish-list is a sequential paddle-actuated 'box so I can see it being of more use then.


Exactly the reason I chose to do it, lots more potential.
Let me know if you need any info


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

matt j said:


> Exactly the reason I chose to do it, lots more potential.
> Let me know if you need any info


Thanks Matt. No doubt I will do at some stage!!

TT


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

In and fully tested and working perfectly.

I used the following if it helps anyone... 

1. R35 GT-R Throttle pedal with twin potentiometers. 
2. Custom loom to ECU (MoTeC M800) 
3. MoTeC DBW upgrade 
4. Custom loom to Actuator inc. BMW TPS 
5. BMW M3 DBW Actuator 
6. Nissan R33 GT-R (standard) TPS 

Works spot on, plenty of pics and a couple of vids if anyone wants any more info.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

matt j said:


> In and fully tested and working perfectly.
> 
> I used the following if it helps anyone...
> 
> ...


Just a small update that might help someone int he future...
MoTeC M800 didn't like the Nissan and BMW TPS's in the mid range when mapping, swapped to Penny and Giles TPS280DP now and all OK.


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## nozza1 (Jan 13, 2007)

Good info matt, thanks for sharing. :bowdown1:


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Quick bump - finally got round to doing a little video that a few folk have asked for.

R33 drive-by-wire via MoTeC M800 on the road.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Better late than never Matt.


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## nightcrawler (May 7, 2010)

great vid matt :thumbsup:


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

R32 Combat said:


> Better late than never Matt.


Thought it was about time I bought a GoPro Andy 
Got there in the end eh! Cheers again mate 



nightcrawler said:


> great vid matt :thumbsup:


Cheers.


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## Swobber (Oct 8, 2006)

Looks like a proper weapon!

Now time for some proper track attack


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

GoPros rule..


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## peatough (Oct 6, 2001)

*Matt*

Epic.

Very smooth. Didn't think sequential could be so user friendly.

Regards


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## nozza1 (Jan 13, 2007)

Works like a dream.

Very well done.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Planning on going this route also. Lots of good info here


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## illpayne (Jul 29, 2008)

matt j said:


> Quick bump - finally got round to doing a little video that a few folk have asked for.
> 
> R33 drive-by-wire via MoTeC M800 on the road.


Have you played with this setup on a road course yet?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Looks like my R32 GR race car build with 3 litre OS Giken engine and OSGiken sequential is not going to get finished.

I modified a Greddy Inlet plenum with a drive by wire motor that I may be selling in the near future.

For Motec users this has to go down to Motec to be verified as safe prior to them allowing the fly by wire option to be enabled on your ECU. 

The item I may be selling has had all the above work completed.

Thanks

Hugh


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Hugh Keir said:


> For Motec users this has to go down to Motec to be verified as safe prior to them allowing the fly by wire option to be enabled on your ECU.


Could you explain? Bit confused?


TT


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

tarmac terror said:


> Could you explain? Bit confused?
> 
> 
> TT


There is a safety issue with a fly by wire throttle not functioning as expected.

Motec require that you send the fly by wire motor and throttle bodies down to them for testing.

Once they have confirmed that the butterly opens and closes effieciently without overloading the motor, they will then approve the installation allowing you to upgrade your ECU to allow the use of a fly by wire motor.


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## dA_RoB (Dec 21, 2012)

Hugh Keir said:


> There is a safety issue with a fly by wire throttle not functioning as expected.
> 
> Motec require that you send the fly by wire motor and throttle bodies down to them for testing.
> 
> Once they have confirmed that the butterly opens and closes effieciently without overloading the motor, they will then approve the installation allowing you to upgrade your ECU to allow the use of a fly by wire motor.


Since when is that?
Worked on 2 cars using DBW with motec and never had issues and we could implement the actuator without any action from motec! This would be the first to hear something like that and tbh it wouldn't make sense as the logistical effort would be to high!

Cheers,
RoB


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Hugh Keir said:


> There is a safety issue with a fly by wire throttle not functioning as expected.
> 
> Motec require that you send the fly by wire motor and throttle bodies down to them for testing.
> 
> Once they have confirmed that the butterly opens and closes effieciently without overloading the motor, they will then approve the installation allowing you to upgrade your ECU to allow the use of a fly by wire motor.


Good info Hugh.

Just to add, Mark at Owen's does this in-house for anyone else interested.

Test mode and pre-start ramp are nice features too.


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Thanks Matt.

Rob, 

The process I described is the one that I had to go through when dealing with Motec, as you say it was a logistical pest, but as Matt described and your own experience this may not be universal.

On the plus side Motec were thorough and altered the preload on the butterfly springs as part of the testing they completed.


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## dA_RoB (Dec 21, 2012)

Hugh Keir said:


> Thanks Matt.
> 
> Rob,
> 
> ...


Hi! Not going to argue with what you went trough but it just seems a little awkward that motec knows they have an issue and requests from the customer that they should send the unit to them and get it checked and then send everything back before they unlock the option. And probably the whole process has to be payed by the customer?
Another good reason why I didn't want to go for motec, apart from other reasons mentioned in another thread.

Out of interest, what model did you have? My experience was with M800.
And now that I think about it, one of them was bought on ebay with this option already unlocked. I guess this would also lead to issues if used with a different dbw throttle body.
Maybe they are affraid of issues if using the dbw function with other than usual dbw throttlebodies e.g. if you would be using something old or antique.
Will have a browse throught their forums in the next days to hear other peoples experinces.

Thanks!

Cheers,
RoB


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Rob,

I don't believe Motec has any issue other than ensuring the safe installation of the drive by wire throttle system.

The service they offer to check and make adjustments to the installation was free, so although it was a pain to ship things to and from Motec, I was left feeling confident that everything was the way it should be.

Cheers

Hugh


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## dA_RoB (Dec 21, 2012)

> There is a safety issue with a fly by wire throttle not functioning as expected.


This is what you wrote just few posts back, that's why assumed there are some issues.
However, just googled for 5 Minutes and found 2 interesting posts which clearly state the purpose of the proceeding:



> If the DBW throttle has not been tested by Motec, you will have to send it to Motec, probably through your local dealer. Do ask them if your particular setup has been done first. It could save you time.


Source: www.motec.com ? View topic - Drive By Wire Option



> If you are using a Motec ECU, they are quite specific about the PID settings and like to characterise each dbw throttle motor in house to ensure accurate control. This is sensible since if the PID is incorrect, there is an obvious safety issue. For this reason if you have the choice, stick to a dbw throttle body that motec have already characterised.


Source: Learn To Tune - High Performance Academy

I could do more research but for me the last quote is enough as it's from Andre from the HP Academy and they have a lot of contact to Motec.

So, as I assumed, you'd need to send them only the dbw units that were not tested by them as they want to gain more data and knowledge and they want to ensure that motec is not fault if something happens. So if You tell your Motec dealer you want to use the LS2 throttle body, you should be ok. Offcourse, this you'd only do if you really know what you're doing as an error in the dbw system might end deadly.

Thanks for the information!

BR
RoB


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

matt j said:


> Just a small update that might help someone int he future...
> MoTeC M800 didn't like the Nissan and BMW TPS's in the mid range when mapping, swapped to Penny and Giles TPS280DP now and all OK.


Matt quick question does the penny and Giles tps bolt straight on? Does it fit in place of the oem Nissan tps or on the bmw actuator body? From what I can see the std bmw tps is a single tps right? And most aftermarket systems work off twin outputs? On the elite it requires tps 1 and tps 2.

Any pictures of the physical install of the actuator?


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Sorry for the delay Younes, I've been away all weekend as it was Ethan's first kart race.



FRRACER said:


> Matt quick question does the penny and Giles tps bolt straight on?


No mate, slight mod needed.



FRRACER said:


> Does it fit in place of the oem Nissan tps or on the bmw actuator body?


I'd want to monitor what the engine sees, no point monitoring the actuator if the linkage failed.



FRRACER said:


> From what I can see the std bmw tps is a single tps right?


BMW use 2 separate sensors, a TPS and an actuator position, they do this to monitor and have a discrepancy alarm.



FRRACER said:


> And most aftermarket systems work off twin outputs? On the elite it requires tps 1 and tps 2.


Yes, as Hugh said, they are dual output 0.5v to 4.5v mate.



FRRACER said:


> Any pictures of the physical install of the actuator?


Not really anything clear that would help you tbh, just general engine shots, you're best speaking to Rich as the car is sat with him waiting on the gearbox and carbon prop.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks Matt. You do know Buster is selling his. Only had it for about 8 or so months. Not needed now he has a R32


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

FRRACER said:


> Thanks Matt. You do know Buster is selling his. Only had it for about 8 or so months. Not needed now he has a R32


Yeah I saw mate but tbh I've paid less for mine and it's new otherwise I'd have considered it.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

No worries


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Collecting a few bits to do the DBW conversion, Z33 350Z throttle pedal and footrest, R34 V-spec pedal pads. The throttle pedal bolts straight in and the pedal pads fit on the R32.....the foot rest will require a little work, but should fit.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

The Australians in those YouTube videos make the whole conversion look so easy. Here it seems a mission lol


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## BOB GTR34 (Apr 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> The Australians in those YouTube videos make the whole conversion look so easy. Here it seems a mission lol


Why don't you just get Richard to sort it out for you if your having trouble with it


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

What's the part number for the plastic foot rest piece for the 34? That alloy rest trim won't fit the R32 one.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

BOB GTR34 said:


> Why don't you just get Richard to sort it out for you if your having trouble with it


Bob I like and enjoy doing things myself that's not to say if there is something I cannot do due to facilities or know how I won't use Richard - I will. 

I've done the pedal side of the loom just trying to figure out the actuator side well the motor is easy using the dbw1/dbw2 pins from the ecu.


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## BOB GTR34 (Apr 29, 2013)

FRRACER said:


> Bob I like and enjoy doing things myself that's not to say if there is something I cannot do due to facilities or know how I won't use Richard - I will.
> 
> I've done the pedal side of the loom just trying to figure out the actuator side well the motor is easy using the dbw1/dbw2 pins from the ecu.


Whether you use Rich or not thats up to you, He's already done Matt's and could easily do yours.

Look forward to seeing the outcome once completed.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

FRRACER said:


> What's the part number for the plastic foot rest piece for the 34? That alloy rest trim won't fit the R32 one.


Not sure, I looked at the R34 one and the shape all looked wrong to fit the R32, im going to mod the 350Z one to get that to fit.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Let me know how the 350 foot rest goes I'll do the same


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## Lilmike02 (May 9, 2006)

Hello Matt j , I am interested in pics of your dbw setup on the r33 gtr. I am looking to do the same thing. What transmission are you using and what actuators are you using on it. Also how did you make the bracket for the dbw actuator your using. Thanks in advance.


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## ab20000 (Jun 30, 2012)

What are the advantages of this conversion and what are the estimated costs? Not something I’ve ever thought about but always good to learn!


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Check out galvsports setup they are based in oz.


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## matt j (Oct 19, 2001)

Lilmike02 said:


> Hello Matt j , I am interested in pics of your dbw setup on the r33 gtr. I am looking to do the same thing. What transmission are you using and what actuators are you using on it. Also how did you make the bracket for the dbw actuator your using. Thanks in advance.


Im using a Holinger GTR6 gearbox with Shiftec system and GCU which integrates with the MoTeC M800 ECU. The actuator is from an M3. 


ab20000 said:


> What are the advantages of this conversion and what are the estimated costs? Not something I’ve ever thought about but always good to learn!


Shift speed and gearbox longevity are the 2 primary advantages for me. 
No idea on cost me these days but Geartronics will set you back around £3.5k.


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