# GTR Gone: My thoughts after 2 years



## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

After owning my GTR from new for two years, it went today. It was a tough to let her go, but after a bit of a love/hate relationship with the car from day one, I knew it was time to move on. 

I wanted one since they came out in 2007, and I must have read and watched every review and piece of commentary on the GTR that's ever been published. I deliberated for ages on whether to buy one, and was close to buying a 911 for a while, but in the end it was a combination of practicality and being able to own one from new that made my decision.

So what did I think? It's been a weird two years. It's an amazing car and is probably the fastest and most competent car that I will ever own. Like many of us, coming from a string of of scoobs and Evos, the GTR felt like a natural progression. However, since I took delivery, I've never quite fallen for the car like I thought I would, and until now I could never really put my finger on why. On paper it's the perfect car; practical, completely reliable, amazing handling and immense performance. So what is missing?

The crux of it lies in the fact that despite its incredible abilities, I never found the car a pleasure to sit in, and it was only ever rewarding to drive at warp speed. The GTR is so competent that you have to be driving ten times faster than its competitors to get close to its limits, and for it to feel rewarding. Whilst I never stopped marvelling at its competence and ability, it meant that there was less reward for simply driving quickly down a twisty road. In some ways the car is just too good. It's so surefooted and planted that in normal situations it almost feels aloof - which in a road car is boring, as you never get close to the action.

I've been thinking about what defines involvement for me, and I guess it's down to the things that deliver an emotional response in me. The GTR has lovely positive and direct steering, with plenty of feel, so it's not the steering, however I think a lot of the enjoyment that I get from a car is the sound. Even with a good exhaust, the GTR doesn't really sound that special, it's just louder without sounding good. I miss the song of a naturally aspirated V8 screaming to the redline. 

Its also the way that the GTR deploys its power - in the GTR speed is so easy, and so effortless, you don't have to work the car or the engine to be going crazy fast. I think I actually enjoy revving a car to extract the speed, it makes the reward of speed more involving as you have to work for it. I honestly enjoy driving my mate's Clip 200 Cup more than the GTR, as although it not even close to the GTR in performance terms, its so much fun and involving extracting every last bhp from the engine, with the wheel writhing in your hands on a twisty B-road.

The other thing is the interior. To me £70k is a hell of a lot of cash, but sitting in it I always felt short changed. The cheap construction, cheap materials and hap-hazard inconsistency in design and materials always felt like a let down. More like £20k car than £70k. When you're spending that sort of money on a car, it's important to feel like you're getting some quality in return - above and beyond that of a Nissan Qashqai 

So, end of an era for me. I will miss her, and if I could afford a 10 car barn collection a GTR might feature, but I'm looking forward to getting back into a slower, less competent, normally aspirated car that requires more from the driver to go fast, and still involving when you're under the speed limit...


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

You're not the first to feel like that about the GTR. There is definitely something rewarding about driving lower powered cars at the limit.


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## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

What Tazz said.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Your banned get out:banned:


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## Alex C (Aug 10, 2005)

Sounds like you need a Skyline GTR with good cams and a Ti exhaust :chuckle:

Or an E92 M3.


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## Snooze (Aug 5, 2015)

As fairly new owner I'm still impressed by the warp speed of the GTR. I giggle like little girl every time I press the loud pedal.

However, I can see where you are coming from. I've a owned a series of performance cars and my goal is always to progress, faster, better feedback, more sure footed. The pinnacle of this for me is the GTR - it has been my dream car for several years, and I feel fortunate to achieved it.

However looking back over the cars I've owner, the one I had most fun in was an old Series 3 Mazda RX7. Only 135 BHP, but handling was sublime and the fun from pushing it to the edge was available at much lower speeds and therefore more accessible in everyday driving. Huge grin factor, many hilarious and butt clenching moments, but always involving.

The GTR is fast, almost too fast. Its the first car I've had where that I'm contemplating tracking, and the drive for this is purely that I can't get near the limit of car on the road without straying onto the otherside of dangerous.

For now I love the GTR though. Its currently standard, but Stage 1 is just around the corner and I'm sure this going to increase the size of my grin.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Alex C said:


> ...Or an E92 M3.


Funny, I am contemplating one of those... That engine is a gem, and the car is both smaller and lighter than a GTR, whilst being more practical at the same time. Anyone have any experience of them? This looks quite saucy:


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## tonigmr2 (Sep 12, 2002)

Part of the reason I got a GT86, it's just fun at legal speeds!

(and sorry, no BMW is 'saucy'!)


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Caveman said:


> After owning my GTR from new for two years, it went today. It was a tough to let her go, but after a bit of a love/hate relationship with the car from day one, I knew it was time to move on.
> 
> I wanted one since they came out in 2007, and I must have read and watched every review and piece of commentary on the GTR that's ever been published. I deliberated for ages on whether to buy one, and was close to buying a 911 for a while, but in the end it was a combination of practicality and being able to own one from new that made my decision.
> 
> ...


see some points a agree, some i dont.. and tbh the GTR does flatter and pamper it's owner with speed very easily..

I also have a lower power car under 300bhp, which you have to work harder to extract the power and have the steering wheel fight that you described, I get what your saying there, But I also love the point and gently squirt and off you go like a rocket! flying past normal road cars, like they are stationary, i find that lots of fun as well..

also when in the lower powered car, which is great fun, but after 3-4 days use.. I miss the power/control and kick in the back of the head the GTR gives you.

Drive your mates clio for a week, then see if you want the GTR back, I bet you do!

You are right about the interior, However the cars cost is cheap in comparison to other super cars, most of the money goes into performance, not the interior.

the R35 has to be pushed hard to unsettle it, I suppose it depends on your driving style.. I've had mine sliding off track before, when it bit me in the ass, so they can bite back if you piss them off. ha ha

Conclusion : I've had my R35 for 2 years now, and have also owned a number of fast cars as well, but for me so far.. for pure power, speed, kick in the back of the head, chuckling like a kid, comfortable when needed road car, insane when needed road car, great on the motorway for long journeys (which i need), nice auto gearbox, i'm converted from manuals now!, great road presence, positive comments you get from the public, and the good looks it has, well maybe not the front ha ha.. I'm still happy with mine, and can't see what would match it, for my personal needs.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Chronos said:


> ...and tbh the GTR does flatter and pamper it's owner with speed very easily..


If you watch the interviews with Mizuno, the whole ethos of the car is to make supercar performance accessible to non racing drivers - hence the added weight: more stability and more grip. 

Whilst I agree that on the limit on track the GTR can be a handful if you don't treat it with respect, on the road the car is very stable and competent and easy to drive fast. When I say fast, I don't mean at the limits of the car, just at higher speeds relative to other cars. You can drive down a twisty road at speeds that would have an M3's tyres screeching and scrabbling for grip, whilst the GTR is untroubled and aloof. Utterly competent, yes. Rewarding? No.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

Caveman said:


> If you watch the interviews with Mizuno, the whole ethos of the car is to make supercar performance accessible to non racing drivers - hence the added weight: more stability and more grip.
> Whilst I agree that on the limit on track the GTR can be a handful if you don't treat it with respect, on the road the car is very stable and competent and easy to drive fast. When I say fast, I don't mean at the limits of the car, just at higher speeds relative to other cars. You can drive down a twisty road at speeds that would have an M3's tyres screeching and scrabbling for grip, whilst the GTR is untroubled and aloof. Utterly competent, yes. Rewarding? No.


Thing is, it was built to drive fast with all the electronic aids doing their thing to keep it on the road, with the rapid speed it can do, i like having the protection myself, and have never felt the need for more danger thrills, by turning them off.. if you want it 'screeching and scrabbling for grip' turn the traction control off, suspension to R and off you go!


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Chronos said:


> Drive your mates clio for a week, then see if you want the GTR back, I bet you do!




There it is really.Lower powered cars are fun but would you be happy with it all of the time?


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## AdnanK (Jun 11, 2013)

I can see where the OP is coming from, I've had a mixture of high revving NA's E46 M3, E92 M3 and have had high powered turbo cars too. What made me choose the GTR is the "special" feeling it gives me that neither of my previous motors could, the others may have had better interiors or more driver interaction etc but that doesn't make a car feel special to me. Everyone's different.

Good luck with your next car OP, you can't go wrong with an E92 M3, get the 6 speed.


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## rob2005 (Apr 26, 2015)

I've come from an E92 M3 to my GTR. 

They are good car but not in the same league as a GTR in terms of performance. 

I enjoyed mine but I had the same feeling fir that as you had with the GTR. I wanted a practical car that was fast and thrilling but the E92 bored me (both in terms of looks and power) even with the screaming v8. Which was odd as I loved both my E46 M3s.

I love the GTR as it scares the shit out of me and I always look back twice after locking it to admire it. 

Try an M3 but pop to your local Porsche dealership too as I was close to a Cayman R before I decided on the GTR. Superb cars!!


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

TREG said:


> There it is really.Lower powered cars are fun but would you be happy with it all of the time?


I wouldn't be using it all of the time. The car is only ever used for fun at weekends, I have an RS6 for everyday, so only looking for 4-seater weekend driving thrills tbh. When I say lower powered, I'm still talking a power/weight ratio of 260 bhp/ton, which is plenty enough for a road car IMHO.


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## Nedzilla (Feb 10, 2012)

Pretty much exactly how I felt about my two years of GTR ownership Caveman. It's a great car,no doubt and I thoroughly enjoyed two years of hassle free ownership(no real problems,the odd niggle) but in a way I also thought that the car was too capable for its own good which in the end made me feel a bit short changed in that I wasn't using it anywhere near its full potential.
It's a great 'experience' car (mine was only stage 1),great for scaring your friends and knowing you can out drag pretty much anyone who tried to have a go was a good thing to have but for day to day driving and dawdling along in traffic,which lets be honest is where most of us do most of our driving the performance was a waste and it didn't really feel special enough in other ways to make up for that and I became bored of it.
I decided to go for something a bit less capable and settled on a R8 4.2. Yes I would've preferred the V10 but only had £50k to spend.
For me it pretty much hits the sweet spot for UK roads. You can wring it out through a few gears and explore its limits without fearing (too much) for your license and when your not doing this it just feels a more special car to be in.....and the sound it makes as it approaches 8k rpm is simply glorious if maybe just a tiny bit down on volume.
Don't get me wrong,if I had to say which was the 'better car' it wouldn't be easy and I will probably find myself bored of the R8 in another year or so. They are both great cars but in different ways and I suppose it all depends on what it is that gives you most pleasure whilst behind the wheel.

One thing I will say though is the GTR forum beats R8 talk hands down and I still find myself on here more often even though I don't have the GTR anymore!


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## DonnyMac (Jun 21, 2012)

I take the cars to Wales three times a year and France twice or more with several like minded buddies, I alternate, depending on weather, between the GTR and Atom - the car is balistic, a real weapon.

If you're not enjoying driving it, go somewhere you can - Wales is just up the road and has some of the most spectacular roads in the world, let alone country.

I'm really surprised this place doesn't organise several tunnel runs, morning, weekend and week euro hoons, you lads would get it, completely after driving in anger with 10 buddies in assorted fun cars.


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## mulechild (Aug 12, 2014)

I felt the same as the OP, everything he says is how i felt after just 6 weeks of ownership. I eventually held on to it for 6 months but did very little in it for the last 3 months. 

The engine was fantastic but i couldn't live with that gearbox and its clunks, clanks, and grinds any longer. If i knew it made that racket but was bulletproof i could understand, but the things are just a bomb waiting to go off in your GTR taxed wallet. 

Maybe its also because my performance car history is powerful rwd cars which are just waiting to kill you at any moment and have no electronic safety net, but the GTR bored me. I went out and luckily found and bought the very car i sold to get the GTR, which is a vxr8. I honestly had more fun driving that in the first 10 minutes i had it back than i had in the 6 months with GTR. If your looking at a v8 bmw etc then try a vxr8, its as close to a old school super saloon as you can get with very simple bullet proof mechanicals and that awesome hotrod sound track. Prices are climbing as people start to realise that they're the last of the breed of analogue performance saloons. Mines a keeper now, the GTR taught me that at least..!

The GTR will remain a box ticked, nothing more im afraid.. :sadwavey:


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

mulechild said:


> . I went out and luckily found and bought the very car i sold to get the GTR, which is a vxr8. I honestly had more fun driving that in the first 10 minutes i had it back than i had in the 6 months with GTR. If your looking at a v8 bmw etc then try a vxr8, its as close to a old school super saloon as you can get with very simple bullet proof mechanicals and that awesome hotrod sound track. Prices are climbing as people start to realise that they're the last of the breed of analogue performance saloons. Mines a keeper now, the GTR taught me that at least..!


I think I'd fancy one of those at some point as well, be a real hoot.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

mulechild said:


> ...If your looking at a v8 bmw etc then try a vxr8, its as close to a old school super saloon as you can get...


Funny, that was my last car before the GTR - I had an 09 plate in black from new. It was a great car, very rare and lots of character. I loved the huge torque and the NASCAR roar, but despite spending a lot of money on coilovers, ARBs, polybushes and chassis braces, it was a bit of an oil tanker in the bends. Quite dim witted, slow steering and not very chukkable.

That's why I'm hoping perhaps an e92 M3 will fit the bill. Still with a nice V8, albeit a high revving 4L, but with handling that puts a lot of more powerful cars to shame when you're really trying. 

We'll see...


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Nice to see folks sharing their own real-world experiences....

Some interesting comments made above on how folks perceive certain aspects of the GTR. I think different cars bring different qualities to the table and I keep seeing folks referring to a lack of 'fun factor' with the GTR where other cars supply this in bucketloads. Now, folks interpretation of 'fun' is diverse but there's clearly a bit of a disconnect for some owners who get themselves back into perhaps less capable but more 'fun' cars.
My previous steed was an E46 M3 which was an absolute hoot!! It wasn't all about how fast you could get down a road but how many driver-induced laughs/scares the car could give you on the way down. The M3 provided these in great measure. Next spring the missus and I are looking to get back into an M car whether it be an E92 M3 or an M4 as there is just something that the M cars provide that gives instant grins..... 


To the guy's moving on....: thumbs up:. Hope you have fun with your new rides and continue to frequent the forum..



TT


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Here's my old VXR8 (HSV Clubsport)


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

Caveman said:


> Funny, I am contemplating one of those... That engine is a gem, and the car is both smaller and lighter than a GTR, whilst being more practical at the same time. Anyone have any experience of them? This looks quite saucy:


YEA I had one for a year new, nice car BUT........... you have to wring it's neck to get it to perform. It gets boring in every day driving.

This one however you don't.


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

The GTR is a brilliant car but the biggest gripe I always had with it was it was too big and too heavy. It always felt a bit barge like. Some cars are capable of disguising their ample proportions but the GTR is not one of them. Quite easy to provoke into oversteer as well when pushing on. 

I had mine for three years - not sure I would have another one now. Very glad I ticked the box though and I look back very fondly on those years. An M3 would certainly not be where I went from a GTR. I find them dull as ditchwater but hey, it takes allsorts. Good luck in whatever you choose.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

New Reg said:


> ...An M3 would certainly not be where I went from a GTR. I find them dull as ditchwater but hey, it takes allsorts.


I am somewhat limited in my choices tbh. I am looking for a normally aspirated car that's lighter than the GTR, handles well and is fast enough to be fun, AND has four seats. I only use the car at weekends on days out or breaks away with the family, so it needs to be somewhat practical. Even in the GTR I only did 7k miles in two years, so if I had a 2 seater I'd never get the opportunity to use it. I commute on the train, and weekends are spent with the family.

I DEFINTELY don't want another turbocharged car as I find them less satisfying to drive, no matter how much faster/torquier they are...

We're all different I guess


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

Caveman said:


> I am somewhat limited in my choices tbh. I am looking for a normally aspirated car that's lighter than the GTR, handles well and is fast enough to be fun, AND has four seats. I only use the car at weekends on days out or breaks away with the family, so it needs to be somewhat practical. Even in the GTR I only did 7k miles in two years, so if I had a 2 seater I'd never get the opportunity to use it. I commute on the train, and weekends are spent with the family.
> 
> I DEFINTELY don't want another turbocharged car as I find them less satisfying to drive, no matter how much faster/torquier they are...
> 
> We're all different I guess


THe old M3 would be good for you then, they have the room and can handle a thrashing.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

New Reg said:


> An M3 would certainly not be where I went from a GTR. I find them dull as ditchwater but hey, it takes allsorts. Good luck in whatever you choose.


But then, for some is isn't about climbing up an ladder of increasing performance when changing cars.....

There are other factors which mean that something with less power than a GTR might be desirable.... or indeed something that's RWD. 



TT


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

JohnE90M3 said:


> THe old M3 would be good for you then, they have the room and can handle a thrashing.


Maybe so. I do find it intriguing that they do seem to punch above their weight when on track too. The precision handling and balance of the M3 when set up right does seem to deliver some credible times on track tbh, when set up properly.

They're also a bit of a bargain. You can get a 2 year old car, which was £60k new, with under 10k miles on for about £35k. Seems like good value to me.


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

tarmac terror said:


> But then, for some is isn't about climbing up an ladder of increasing performance when changing cars.....
> 
> There are other factors which mean that something with less power than a GTR might be desirable.... or indeed something that's RWD.
> 
> ...


Good points, I sold my M6 GC CP (620 BHP ) for the LCI M3.
It goes as well up to 80 MPH in fact quicker to 60 than the M6, and handles better.
The M6 was mental over 90 MPH but license loosing.:chuckle:
It always felt like it was "idling".


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Caveman said:


> I am somewhat limited in my choices tbh. I am looking for a normally aspirated car that's lighter than the GTR, handles well and is fast enough to be fun, AND has four seats. I only use the car at weekends on days out or breaks away with the family, so it needs to be somewhat practical. Even in the GTR I only did 7k miles in two years, so if I had a 2 seater I'd never get the opportunity to use it. I commute on the train, and weekends are spent with the family.
> 
> I DEFINTELY don't want another turbocharged car as I find them less satisfying to drive, no matter how much faster/torquier they are...
> 
> We're all different I guess





TBH, my daily 'FUN' car is a retro hot hatch (306 Rallye!) which is N/A, 5 seats, WAY lighter than a GTR and handles like a go-kart. You'd be VERY surprised at how many folks on here have one! You can pick up a good 306 Gti-6 for around £1k.
For every day driving pleasure, the hot hatch is the outright winner IMHO.... Makes you feel like you're travelling 10x faster than you actually are, goes round roundabouts like it's on rails and delivers an experience that modern cars simply cannot!!
My next 'toy' car will be a Fiesta RS if Ford decide to do the right thing and make it!!







TT


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

tarmac terror said:


> But then, for some is isn't about climbing up an ladder of increasing performance when changing cars.....
> 
> There are other factors which mean that something with less power than a GTR might be desirable.... or indeed something that's RWD.


Indeed. The only reason I buy fast cars is because they bring me pleasure and enjoyment to drive. I don't give a sh1t about climbing some shallow or pathetic 'ladder'. There will always be someone with a faster car, with a bigger house, and a bigger bank balance. 

There was a great article by Richard Meaden in this month's Evo magazine where he deliberates on which is the most perfect and complete 'one car' for everything, and he mentions the e92 M3... Good looks, incredible high revving V8, sweet chassis balance, and practical to boot.


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

tarmac terror said:


> But then, for some is isn't about climbing up an ladder of increasing performance when changing cars.....
> 
> There are other factors which mean that something with less power than a GTR might be desirable.... or indeed something that's RWD.
> 
> ...


I agree, I just did not connect with an M3 when I drove one and it had nothing to do with a lack of power. I loved the noise it made and that was about it. It did not feel special to me at all - as the guy who owned one for a year said, it felt boring. Kind of like a trimmed out sales rep car with a V8 in it. But hey, thats what it is. Some people love them and thats fine. Like I said it takes allsorts but personally I found my other half's MX5 far more fun.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

New Reg said:


> ...Kind of like a trimmed out sales rep car with a V8 in it. But hey, thats what it is. Some people love them and thats fine. Like I said it takes allsorts but personally I found my other half's MX5 far more fun.


Actually, I think the M3 is practically all bespoke. The only thing is shares with the regular e92 is the glass, the doors & boot and the dash, so it's been designed pretty much from the ground up as a separate performance model.


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

Caveman said:


> Actually, I think the M3 is practically all bespoke. The only thing is shares with the regular e92 is the glass, the doors & boot and the dash, so it's been designed pretty much from the ground up as a separate performance model.


That may well be the case but to me it just did not hit the spot. Sometimes you cannot put your finger on why you don't connect with a car - you just don't. Many things contribute. I walked away from an M3 test drive thinking 'was that it?' I looked back at the car and I did not lust after it from an aesthetic standpoint either. It may have many bespoke parts but it looks like a tarted up rep wagon. Some people hate GTR's with a passion - I have seen plenty of folk on this and other forums (the MLR particularly) who have purchased GTR's and have got rid of them within a matter of weeks as they find them 'boring'. That has never computed with me - I loved my GTR - but that is how some people view them. I think it is a good looking car, many people think they are pig ugly. We are all different. My missus has a £1500 Mk1 MX5 which she refuses to get rid of because she loves it so much. I love it as well. Most new diesal cars would probably leave it for dead in a straight line but the fun to be had on country roads is unparalleled. 

In the end, there is no right and wrong here. Just different opinions. If you find the M3 suits you then all power to you. It matters not a shite what I or anyone else thinks.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

New Reg said:


> In the end, there is no right and wrong here. Just different opinions. If you find the M3 suits you then all power to you. It matters not a shite what I or anyone else thinks.


Well said. This is all purely subjective, and frankly quite fascinating that we can all see the same thing and walk away with such different experiences. Be boring if we were all the same. :thumbsup:

GTR wise, it's not pretty, but definitely has presence. I always liked the way it looked side on and the rear, but hated it from the front!


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## motors (Mar 14, 2013)

Came from 7 years of road/track in CSL before buying first of now 3 GTR's and building M3 road but mainly track car. I prefer GTR on road but on track the M3 is a far better experience than the GTR on track, definitely recommend M3 if you are thinking about taking car on track.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

motors said:


> ...on track the M3 is a far better experience than the GTR...


Interesting. Why? Can you elaborate?


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## motors (Mar 14, 2013)

Caveman said:


> Interesting. Why? Can you elaborate?


Hi its just my opinion, m3 is lighter changes direction better, less understeer, can brake a lot later, M3 can run all day without gearbox overheating (even with cooler), consumables cost a lot less. No doubt you could spend money to make GTR more enjoyable on track both GTR's cars i had on track had Litchfield suspension and bigger brakes. GTR was great in a straight line and wouldn't change it as a daily road car its awesome.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Great, that's exactly what I had hoped. 200kg less weight will make a big difference I am sure.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Caveman said:


> quite fascinating that we can all see the same thing and walk away with such different experiences. Be boring if we were all the same. :thumbsup:


Absolutely......

Although it would appear you missed the thread where Chronos wanted to convert everyone to the GTR faith and where non-believing was not an option. They would be hounded until they repent....

:chuckle:


In fact, much like Scientology.......in fact, Chronos is probably L.Ron Hubbard back from the dead..

:chuckle:




TT


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## perrin21 (Aug 10, 2012)

If you haven't bought yet, check out my post about what i bought. A Tesla Roadster. Its phenomenal and after 1 year its still making me smile.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

perrin21 said:


> If you haven't bought yet, check out my post about what i bought. A Tesla Roadster. Its phenomenal and after 1 year its still making me smile.


I'm sure it is bud, not much use to me though - I need 4 seats and a boot. Plus I miss not having a V8, so don't think an electric car would cut it!


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## isub (Mar 18, 2013)

The GTR must be the only car you can take on track whilst enjoying a Costa coffee and flicking through the Sunday supplement.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

isub said:


> The GTR must be the only car you can take on track whilst enjoying a Costa coffee and flicking through the Sunday supplement.


ha ha :chuckle: Shame top gear isn't on anymore, they could have done a segment about it.

in today's show : Richard drinks coffee, on the track, in a GteeRRRRRRRR.


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## mulechild (Aug 12, 2014)

Caveman said:


> Funny, that was my last car before the GTR - I had an 09 plate in black from new. It was a great car, very rare and lots of character. I loved the huge torque and the NASCAR roar, but despite spending a lot of money on coilovers, ARBs, polybushes and chassis braces, it was a bit of an oil tanker in the bends. Quite dim witted, slow steering and not very chukkable.
> 
> That's why I'm hoping perhaps an e92 M3 will fit the bill. Still with a nice V8, albeit a high revving 4L, but with handling that puts a lot of more powerful cars to shame when you're really trying.
> 
> We'll see...


Great minds.. :chuckle: I like the 'soft' handling of the vxr8 as i don't tend to chuck it about much these days, just a bit of sideways out of the bends and ride the huge low down torque. My days of blasting round the local roads in a car are long gone, i've got a bike for that and no car on earth can compete with the feeling you get from one of them..

I have thought about an e92 m3 as well, i think they look great on the outside, but i was put off by the reputation of being 'boring' and needing to thrash them to get them moving. After the GTR experience decided to go back to the car i knew and loved. Maybe a supercharger next..!


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Yeah, another reason why the M3 could work. If I get bored, a supercharger can easily sort that - 650bhp out of the box...


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## bluegrass (Aug 21, 2015)

Although not in the same league as your GTR Caveman, I felt the same about my Lexus IS-F, it was a quick competent car, you could make it twitch the rear end 'specially on damp roads making it fun. But I didn't like something about it, and until a friend (ex GTR owner) said to me "Geoff, it hasn't got a soul has it?" And then the penny dropped, absolutely spot on. It didn't have that important component that you connect with. It's gone now, and I'm waiting for my Skyline 33GTR to be registered. I have a Stagea which has sold me on the engine/drivetrain on the Skylines.
I have had one Beemer, a 760 LI. I was disappointed with that. For BMW's flagship the leather seats stitching started to unravel, the map pockets broke, I didn't think the quality matched my 20 year old Lexus LS400. There was an annoying small lumpiness at 1000 rpm and I spent over £2,500 trying to get it sorted (plugs, coils, MAF's, software downloads) never got rid of it, it was hardly detectable but was there (I'm picky) and this is the same engine as in the Roller! The garage guy who services all our cars suggested it might have been a flywheel problem.
In the end I px'd it for the Lexus.


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

After the M6 GC CP, I thought the LCI 2016 M3 would be a let down, how wrong was I, just covered 85 miles today in it and only 500 miles on the clock, wow this thing drives great, and has go in it too.
I love it and don't miss the M6 for a minute.
I ordered Full leather and all the bits and pieces , and TBH it really is a nice place to be.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

bluegrass said:


> Although not in the same league as your GTR Caveman, I felt the same about my Lexus IS-F, it was a quick competent car, you could make it twitch the rear end 'specially on damp roads making it fun.




Never met anyone with one of those, they are very rare to see on the road round here as well.

Interesting to here you went for a 33 after that


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## mike746 (Jul 8, 2015)

just my 2 pence worth. 
I've been lucky enough to own a few cars... bentley supersport, porsche 996 c4s, porsche 997 turbo, lambo gallardo, f430, mercedes csl63, merceded c63, e46 m3, e90 m3, aston martin vantage v8, rs4, rs6 and theres a few more.
hand on heart i can honestly say the best car for me, in my opinion is the gtr.
its amazingly fast, agile and responsive. 
but if i had to change it for a fun 4 seater i would be buying a c63amg saloon.
the c63 is so much fun and tail happy. its a real drivers car. i personally think you will find the e90 m3 slow and boring. 
best thing to do is go and drive some cars!!!


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

mike746 said:


> ...I personally think you will find the e90 m3 slow and boring.


As I said in my first post, I've realised that going warp speed isn't what makes a car involving for me. That's exactly why I DIDN'T get on with the GTR. The opportunity to use all the power on our congested roads is rare, and it's so fast that I never felt that I could use more than half the rev range before I was going too fast. Frustrating and ultimately pointless.

For a road car I'd rather have something where you have half a chance of getting near the limit, plus being able to use ALL the rev range in doing so. Plus that 4L V8 is an absolute gem - this side of £200k supercars, there aren't many N/A V8s that rev to 8.5k revs. It's a gem 

As has been said before, we're all different and are motivated by different things. Sheer speed, I've realised, isn't the be all and end all to me, and many others...


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Caveman said:


> Sheer speed, I've realised, isn't the be all and end all to me, and many others...


My biggest fear was losing my licence and the law of averages says it would happen, constantly exceeding the speed limits on a regular basis. I lost my licence for 12 months over 30 years ago now and it cramped my style then so it would totally mess things up if it happened again now. After I sold my R35 I vowed to get out on track (Hence a Skyline) and go fast legally but it hasn't happened yet I understand the desire to have a super fast road car but another GTR would simply be wasted on me and I'm still yet to discover another performance car that I'd actually wish to own.


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## stealth46 (Jul 21, 2013)

The GT-R is so capable you do sometimes forget how easy it is to drive quickly. Was driving along the motorway yesterday and saw a traffic cop sitting at the side of the road. Looked in my rear view mirror and saw him pull onto the road behind me so immediately thought 'ah nuts'. Happily he just sat behind me for a while then turned off. Reality check noted


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Yep agreed. And for me, that was the biggest problem with the car - it was is so competent, that it felt like it only really came alive and became involving at silly speeds. I think the same is written about the latest 911 turbo.

We'll see. After saying all this, I'll probably find the GTR unmatchable and end up getting another one after a few months!  Who knows...


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Caveman said:


> We'll see. After saying all this, I'll probably find the GTR unmatchable and end up getting another one after a few months!  Who knows...





I'm not sure we can take you back after this as you have broken a lot of hearts here:chuckle:


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## paramoreg (Dec 13, 2013)

Nedzilla said:


> I decided to go for something a bit less capable and settled on a R8 4.2....One thing I will say though is the GTR forum beats R8 talk hands down and I still find myself on here more often even though I don't have the GTR anymore!


I think you're quite right...I'm currently on my second GTR (MY10 Litch 850HP) but owned an Audi R8 V8 5 years ago. 

You can't beat the GTR's performance, though the 2010 std suspenders are poor and the car wallows when pushing through the twisties. Mine's more of a sleeper (ie no fixed wings, bright wraps, skirts etc) but even so still turns lots of heads, gets lots of respect and thumbs up from cars and bikes alike. 

However, the Audi R8 looks good inside and out, even standing still. Sadly the GTR interior looks, fit and finish just doesn't make you feel anywhere near as special when your sat inside.

The GTR is great, as are the GTR and Battalion forums, but leaves you wanting to spend more and more money on 'improving' it. Mine has had 40K spent on it already - not me - and currently with Litchfield maxing out the GT3067 turbos. Not sure the std box will cope for much longer but we'll see.

The R8 with miltek non-res exhaust just makes you want to drive and enjoy it.

I've not had many nice cars, but have had a TVR Sagaris, 2 VXR8's (635HP and 733HP), Audi R8 V8 and 2 GTRs. The big VXR8 saloons are fun to spin up at all sorts of speeds but dynamically just terrible. BMWs leave me cold, even the M series...looks and performance just nothing special at all in my head...Same with Porsche, as fast as the Turbo is. Enough of my mates have had them for me to know I'd never want one.

I'll be keeping my GTR until next year. An Aventador will stay top of my dream list as I'll never be able to afford one and I'll probably plump for another Audi R8, but the V10 Spyder this time. As you note, I'll trade performance for looks, fit and finish but always look back with fondness at the crazy warp speeds the GTR could achieve and remain on the GTR forum for the chat and technical insights!


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## twobadmice (Jul 2, 2013)

I think the C63 AMG is nothing special to drive at all. It's loud and not very quick. Personally I prefer the GTR interior to it as its like a grandad car and I hate not having touch screen.

For a driving thrill you need something older and more agile. There is a beauty to changing gears with a stick and moderating throttle and steering around bends so you don't get spat out.


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## ASH-R35 (Jun 7, 2013)

Caveman said:


> Funny, I am contemplating one of those... That engine is a gem, and the car is both smaller and lighter than a GTR, whilst being more practical at the same time. Anyone have any experience of them? This looks quite saucy:


I've owned 4x e92 m3s....fabulous cars and I preferred the m3 to the 650r GTR I had......sure the m3 is nowhere near as fast but it just has an amazing feel and balance that the gtr doesn't have.....the car is more challenging to drive hard and is a bit more suited to the road than the gtr

The oem ehxuat mod and bmc filters are all you'll need in the m3....initially it'll feel gutless compared to the gtr but once you get the hang of the engine and where to keep it in the powerband it's awesome.....dct is also an absolute must imho


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## ASH-R35 (Jun 7, 2013)

I've now got a V10 r8 which I think is a much better road car than the gtr or indeed the e92 m3

It rides better, the name engine is just beautiful, handling balance is ace and the car is totally exhilarating to drive hard....love it! After market exhaust also a must here!


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## HUGHS1E (Jan 20, 2015)

What about a maserati


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## paramoreg (Dec 13, 2013)

ASH-R35 said:


> I've now got a V10 r8...After market exhaust also a must here!


Audi lent me a v10 Spyder for 4 days just after selling my v8 to tempt me back! Just need to ensure I can get away with strict 2 seats by next year and avoid spending too much more money on the GTR!! What exhaust did you go for on the v10? I had miltek non res on the v8.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I hate to admit to agreeing with the above.

My E46 M3 is bringing me far more smiles when driving than the GT-R has done for a while.

The noise and the power delivery, and I hate to say it, the manual gear shift, makes it much more satisfying behind the wheel.

There's also something in the fact that it cost a fraction of the GT-R's price and isn't going down in value, wouldn't be horrific if I wrote it off, and crucially is nowhere near as license threatening on every occasion it's driven.

I don't like putting this stuff in writing as it threatens my love of exotica, and will potentially compromise my ownership of the NSX that's on its way.


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Adamantium said:


> ...There's also something in the fact that it cost a fraction of the GT-R's price and isn't going down in value, wouldn't be horrific if I wrote it off, and crucially is nowhere near as license threatening on every occasion it's driven.
> 
> I don't like putting this stuff in writing as it threatens my love of exotica, and will potentially compromise my ownership of the NSX that's on its way.


I'm glad you said that. That's also one of my motivations, although I suppose I was a little shy about admitting it. I paid for my car part deposit, part finance, and shelling out £700 per month over two years for the privilege of owning a car that was rarely driven, did also contribute to removing the shine from the ownership experience. 

I earn pretty well, but I don't have a spare £70k sat around to buy outright, so moving to a car that I can own from day one, and not be ransomed for each month will be a big plus.

I've spunked too much money on cars over the last 20 years (I'm 41), so being slightly more sensible for a change may in itself be rewarding. As I said before, we'll see...


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## JohnE90M3 (May 31, 2010)

Caveman said:


> I'm glad you said that. That's also one of my motivations, although I suppose I was a little shy about admitting it. I paid for my car part deposit, part finance, and shelling out £700 per month over two years for the privilege of owning a car that was rarely driven, did also contribute to removing the shine from the ownership experience.
> 
> I earn pretty well, but I don't have a spare £70k sat around to buy outright, so moving to a car that I can own from day one, and not be ransomed for each month will be a big plus.
> 
> I've spunked too much money on cars over the last 20 years (I'm 41), so being slightly more sensible for a change may in itself be rewarding. As I said before, we'll see...


Iv'e had most high end performance cars and TBH, I am getting more fun out of the new LCI M3 than any I have had over the last 5 years, it 's just *usable full stop* and quite spacious too.


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## ASH-R35 (Jun 7, 2013)

John when you say new lci m3 do you mean e92 lci or the latest f80?


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I've not heard the term lci, what does it refer to?


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Adamantium said:


> I've not heard the term lci, what does it refer to?


Its the F80. Although I've only ever heard it referred to as F80 not LCI....


TT


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## AdnanK (Jun 11, 2013)

Adamantium said:


> I've not heard the term lci, what does it refer to?


BMW term for face lift. 

Annoying thing with the 3 series, April 2003 they first introduced read LED lights (You'd think they would be standard there on out), they then take them away from the next model and re introduce them during the face lift, they have now done the same again for the F80/F82 no LED rear lights until the LCI spec. One step backward/one step forward just so they can justify the introduction of the LCI models.


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