# 520 BHP on dyno



## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Big thanks to Rob and the gang at perfect touch for the chance to put the 35 on their awesome Dastek 4wd dyno.

My car is totally factory standard, standard boost and run in

Official word is 'Its maximum power is 480 PS (473bhp) (353 kW) at 6400rpm'


We decided to try out BP Ultimate 102 unleaded, (which is still pump fuel).... 520 bhp @ 6,617






































She was serviced 500 miles ago, but decided to change the engine oil again after a bit of track action











Looking forward to next dyno secssion when mapping god Tweenierob will have her mapped for a new Ti exhaust, remove cats and other bits


----------



## jamesbilluk (Aug 10, 2006)

Awsome result that mate. amazing for standard :smokin: 
bet your pleased with it

James.


----------



## Lamb (Sep 25, 2003)

Stunning car Ben......excellent figures......cheers for taking me for a blast!!


----------



## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

1.2bar? Thought it was supposed to be around 0.7-0.8bar. Obviously you have the car, so you must be right, just curious.

62.8hp loss engine to wheels? My, Nissan produced a very efficient AWD transmission there.


----------



## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

The car looks fantastic Ben, and the numbers it's producing are nothing short of awesome.


----------



## type-r 69 (Apr 1, 2007)

nice dyno numbers ben :chuckle:


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

can we see the dyno charts for the stock dyno?


----------



## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Oh ho, we've had an edit in the first post. '1.2 bar' has disappeared. We're being baited folks. Come clean.


----------



## Alan (Jul 1, 2001)

Excellent for a standard car :bowdown1:


----------



## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Awesome results Benny, gotta be chuffed with that, esp with sensible transmission loss numbers so cant pick fault in that, lol :smokin: 



R33_GTS-t said:


> 62.8hp loss engine to wheels? My, Nissan produced a very efficient AWD transmission there.


More like a realistic one compared to the crazy pie in the sky 100s of bhp lost numbers to make the customers happy by showing them nice big numbers even when the wheel figures are crap...


----------



## sewid (Sep 2, 2005)

R33_GTS-t said:


> 1.2bar? Thought it was supposed to be around 0.7-0.8bar. Obviously you have the car, so you must be right, just curious.
> 
> 62.8hp loss engine to wheels? My, Nissan produced a very efficient AWD transmission there.


The standard GTR runs 0.7bar. Where did this 1.2bar number come from?

I had a friend video the MFD in full screen boost gauge mode from my drive but its really blurry sorry. YouTube - Boost Gauge

The needle shows right between 0.5 and 1 x 100kPa. 0.7bar


----------



## doggiehowser (Oct 8, 2007)

Q: which gear did you dyno in?

If this car is stock, how did you get past the speedcut? Am assuming the dyno is not in a track in Japan?

I know a local dyno tried the same thing in Singapore... hit the speedcut in 3rd gear at ard 6000rpm if I remember correctly.


----------



## doggiehowser (Oct 8, 2007)

sewid said:


> The standard GTR runs 0.7bar. Where did this 1.2bar number come from?
> 
> I had a friend video the MFD in full screen boost gauge mode from my drive but its really blurry sorry. YouTube - Boost Gauge
> 
> The needle shows right between 0.5 and 1 x 100kPa. 0.7bar


I think he was referring to an earlier photo (which has since been removed) which showed it running higher boost.


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

so does this information say the wheel hp is 457hp and 520 engine hp with race gas?
and that the engine horse power is rated 473hp on standard gas? - whats wheel hp rated on standard gas?


----------



## bobcat (Jul 26, 2007)

Looks like it was dynoed in 4th gear. Check out top right corner of the first screen.


----------



## sewid (Sep 2, 2005)

mindlessoath said:


> so does this information say the wheel hp is 457hp and 520 engine hp with race gas?
> and that the engine horse power is rated 473hp on standard gas? - whats wheel hp rated on standard gas?


Race gas? It's pump unleaded as stated in the OP.


----------



## Thrust (Jun 8, 2004)

Although they say 473bhp, 480ps in Japan, it would be on a Dyno pack which tends to be 'stricter' than most other systems of measurement. Any thoughts?


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

my thoughts are that dynopacks are used for tuners to see what there parts make in hp after being bolted on. my guess. i dont belive they are better for showing the actuall car hp and can get very missleading.

my opinion. mabe there are some facts i dont know. anyone have those facts? i didnt find much on the issue.


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Is Nissan 480ps at the wheels?


----------



## doggiehowser (Oct 8, 2007)

bobcat said:


> Looks like it was dynoed in 4th gear. Check out top right corner of the first screen.


4th gear would have far exceeded the factory 180km/h limit.


----------



## Blow Dog (Sep 4, 2001)

Hi ben can you clarify the boost questions? Also interested in how the car overcame ecu restrictions on the dyno.


----------



## Dave_R1001 (Nov 24, 2002)

Great thread  

How come you are still on trade plates when Litchfields has been registered? Really curious to hear about getting it into the country too


----------



## sparky69 (Oct 19, 2007)

doggiehowser said:


> 4th gear would have far exceeded the factory 180km/h limit.


The car isn't in Japan so would imagine the gps speed restrictor won't work.


----------



## doggiehowser (Oct 8, 2007)

sparky69 said:


> The car isn't in Japan so would imagine the gps speed restrictor won't work.


Sadly, it does. As long as it is JDM spec, which it should be since neither the US nor UK have officially gotten theirs.

This was tested by a local dyno in Singapore, as well as two other owners who have gotten their rides here.


----------



## TSUCHIYA-KUN (Mar 19, 2007)

nice numbers!!!!!


----------



## [email protected] (May 16, 2003)

Totally standard car and standard boost as from the factory guys

Ians car isn't registered its on show & trade plates. the two cars actually bumped into each other at bedford aerodrome the other day, looked quite cool.

'Really curious to hear about getting it into the country too ' - put on a ya logistics boat like most cars as air freight was 12k apparently


----------



## jdmctr (Aug 26, 2003)

Nice firgures! Seems to be a few R35s in the country now as well. I heard they're £50k imported etc (model report done too).

Also, anyone know the price of BP102 currently? Last time I tried it was £2.42


----------



## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

R32 Combat said:


> Is Nissan 480ps at the wheels?


No, at the engine.

Phil


----------



## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

Quick post from me, when i finish up on this car i'll check the boost plot.
Power Run was carried out in 3rd gear, i have to change the drop down menu to show which gear i ran it in (i didnt change it to 3rd).
I did have to do something to the car to get it to run fully as it was limiting at 4k at first as the wheel speed was more than .02% different front to rear giving a 4wd error.

Cheers

Rob


----------



## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Tweenie Rob,

What rolling road do you use?

Cheers,


----------



## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Ignore me, I see it is a Dastek.

Cheers,


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

THIS thread is what make sme so proud to be on the GTR register. One of the first R35's in the country, on one of our Sponsers rollers and all the info coming first hand

Keep up the good work chaps!

Mook


----------



## Pharoahe (Mar 11, 2006)

That's some serious results,


----------



## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

0.78-0.84bar across the board

Afr 11.2 to 10.4 at the top 

Rob


----------



## m6beg (Apr 21, 2003)

Great work Tweenierob mate.

First dynoed R35 in Europe.

Mick.


----------



## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Tweenierob,

That's very rich isn't it.

What AFR would you run it at? 11.5 to 12?

Cheers,


----------



## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

10.4:1....wow, they've got it mapped quite rich up there, don't they! I always thought Japanese tuners liked to shoot for a risky 12.5:1, but their gas is apparently magical 

How the R35 is going to be remapped however, that's a tough nut to crack!


----------



## kirbz (Nov 13, 2003)

made me laugh when it says "this car is bens personal import 

nice figures, is the car actually road legal as yet or running on trade plates??

Mike


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

News just in


Rob very kindly took the time to MMS me a picture of the R35 GTR ECU


----------



## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

I asked Ben what he wanted at the top, he couldnt think of anything so i wrote the first thing that came to my mind .. in fact i lie, i couldnt print the first thing 

Personally i wouldnt run it that rich, i think every tuner has there own thoughts so i will keep mine to myself  lol

Unfort i cant really post anything on the remapping side as i dont know where it stands legally, when i get more info i will post up what i can.

LMFAO! @ Mook!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 actually piss my shorts!!

Rob


----------



## Cardiff R33 (Jan 16, 2004)

good results Benji, hope to see it in the flesh soon and cant wait to see what rob can do with it


----------



## hodgie (Oct 23, 2003)

Mookistar said:


> News just in
> Rob very kindly took the time to MMS me a picture of the R35 GTR ECU


Get the code breakers from Bletchly Park onto it then:chuckle:


----------



## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

sewid said:


> The standard GTR runs 0.7bar. Where did this 1.2bar number come from?


It was in the original post prior to edit. Maybe just a mistake.


----------



## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

bobcat said:


> Looks like it was dynoed in 4th gear. Check out top right corner of the first screen.


But MPH per 1000rpm says 13.67 just below that. This indicates 3rd.



SteveN said:


> More like a realistic one compared to the crazy pie in the sky 100s of bhp lost numbers to make the customers happy by showing them nice big numbers even when the wheel figures are crap...


Some people over do it with the corrections but 60-80bhp maybe a decent estimate for losses on a hub dyno but not a wheel dyno.


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Am I correct in thinking the top speed of the GTR at 19x mph coincides with 7k rpm in 6th?

Its a bit of a shame they didn't either make 6th a little longer or add a 7th capable of well over 200, not that you'd ever hit it on the road, but with such a low drag coefficient I'd have thought this car would have been able to go quite some way through 200 before power became the limiting factor (and even then it would have been good to see some tuners hit some top speed runs out with extra bhp).


----------



## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

R33_GTS-t said:


> Some people over do it with the corrections but 60-80bhp maybe a decent estimate for losses on a hub dyno but not a wheel dyno.


So you reckon there is more than 60KW per min in heat lost from flywheel to wheels? Do you realise how much heat that is!? Most decent space heaters (i mean 500quid+ jobs) cant create that amount of heat in a bloody hour.

Maybe its me, but I cant see it at all.


----------



## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

On 1000cc motorcycles you tend to lose 15-20hp through the chain and I've seen dyno graphs to prove it (engine dyno'd then put in the bike and dynoed again)
So does 60hp really seem excessive in a heavy 4wd car?


----------



## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

No. Read what I said.

Its the 150bhp+ people often see that I find hard to believe.


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

SteveN, losses are not just heat.


----------



## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Steve, from the post above it sounded like you thought 80hp (60kw) is excessive - apologies if I misunderstood


----------



## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

borat52 said:


> Am I correct in thinking the top speed of the GTR at 19x mph coincides with 7k rpm in 6th?


Roughly, yes. 

I'm sure the tuners will just add a new valvetrain and raise the rev limit anyway.:chuckle:


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

R32 Combat said:


> SteveN, losses are not just heat.


It's pretty hard to lose a lot of energy to anything other than heat, realistically what else could the energy be lost to (friction/resistance ends up as heat)?


----------



## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

R32 Combat said:


> SteveN, losses are not just heat.


What losses are there that equate to anything else but heat? 
Friction Losses = Heat, Hydrodynamic Losses = Heat.

I cant think of anything else TBH


----------



## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Indeed, let us not forget that this gearbox is perticually noisey. And this is a form of energy loss too.


----------



## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Sound energy? Massive losses there, lol...


----------



## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

15-20bhp loss in a bike drivetrain, I've been looking for that number for quite awhile!! Means I'm making 95~100bhp at the crank on my bike (80-ish wheel), so it's unclear whether I hit my goal of 100bhp, up from 85 stock.


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

R32 Combat said:


> Indeed, let us not forget that this gearbox is perticually noisey. And this is a form of energy loss too.


Even 1Kw would make a huge noise (way louder than gearbox whine). my hifi amp is 110W and I never have that turned up past half way, unless I really want to annoy the neighbours

Its not just this gearbox though, even a 'normal' one which is not noisey will lose a lot of energy. Very good point SteveN, when you think of it in heat terms its enourmous.

Having said that, that figure is at full power which will rarely happen on the road for sustained periods.


----------



## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

SteveN said:


> So you reckon there is more than 60KW per min in heat lost from flywheel to wheels? Do you realise how much heat that is!? Most decent space heaters (i mean 500quid+ jobs) cant create that amount of heat in a bloody hour.
> 
> Maybe its me, but I cant see it at all.


What's the specific heat capacity of air? What temperature does a space heater get it to?

What's the specific heat capacity of synthetic motor oil? What temperature does this oil reach during hard driving without any oil coolers? What would happen to the metal if it wasn't there?


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

SteveN said:


> So you reckon there is more than 60KW per min in heat lost from flywheel to wheels? Do you realise how much heat that is!? Most decent space heaters (i mean 500quid+ jobs) cant create that amount of heat in a bloody hour.
> 
> Maybe its me, but I cant see it at all.


Thats not stricty true either, I have a 2Kw £10 B&Q convection heater next to me. If I leave that on for one 30 mins thats the same amount of energy as 60kw for one minute. Remember KW is a measure of power and power is work done/unit time, so its not 60kw per minute, but rather 3600Kj per minute. Either way its a lot, but its not unbelievable.


----------



## FiLi (Jan 25, 2008)

Nice results. Congrats 

Just a bit off-topic, anyone know the CO2 emissions per km?


----------



## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

FiLi said:


> Nice results. Congrats
> 
> Just a bit off-topic, anyone know the CO2 emissions per km?


2 polar caps per km. As we speak, rainbow warrior has docked on the dyno to prevent another 'environmental catastrophe'.

Dyno losses:
Puma Race Engines Technical Guide - Measuring Engine power - engine dynos and rolling road dynos


----------



## Gigjam (Feb 12, 2008)

great numbers, congrats


----------



## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

mindlessoath said:


> my thoughts are that dynopacks are used for tuners to see what there parts make in hp after being bolted on. my guess. i dont belive they are better for showing the actuall car hp and can get very missleading.
> 
> my opinion. mabe there are some facts i dont know. anyone have those facts? i didnt find much on the issue.


No idea where you got that idea from. Nismo, HKS, Honda, Ford, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Subaru, TRD the list goes on, all own Dynapacks and all develop new vehicles and parts on the dyno. 

In a way all dyno's are used as a comparison tool so you can see what improvements are being made, so in that part of your comment you're correct. Reality is that hub dyno's are much better at being able to repeat your numbers run after run as they don't have to deal with such inconsistencies as tyre slip, raising tyre pressures etc etc

The fact of the matter is that most people like to see big numbers and think their cars making 500HP when in fact it's not, and don't like seeing the reality of what it's really making when it's put on a Dynapack. There's plenty of proof around that Dynapack's are every bit as good for measuring a cars power and torque accuratly as it is at showing differences between runs.......it's what it's been designed to do over the last 15 years and that's why most of the worlds major manufacturers use them.

Back on subject now, nice car Benji, you must be stoked to be the first person to get your hands on one.......... hows peoples reactions on the street been to the car ???


----------



## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

canman said:


> The fact of the matter is that most people like to see big numbers and think their cars making 500HP when in fact it's not, and don't like seeing the reality of what it's really making when it's put on a Dynapack.


Lets not start this debate, at least twice a month i have cars in that have dynapack dyno sheets. The cars always make 10-15% less on my dyno and much more realistic figures!! As in, we all know what horsepower certain spec cars can acheive, when they make 40hp more than what is possible before they come in to us you can chuck the dynapck results in the bin.
Unfortunately you have hit a bit of a nerve for me, people can get really hung up on dyno results even when they are from different comapnies, and this causes problems for me. THere are two companies in the uk (names not important) that always make my job much harder, customer A isnt 100% happy with there car so they come to see me. I remap car and then go out with customer A, customer A cant belive the difference 'it must have another 50hp!!' 
'Your car is producing 600hp, 525 at the wheels'... 
'but it made 628hp on bla bla bla dyno'
Customer A leaves not 100% sattisfied 

Next one is carrying on from SteveN, 'But my car made 610hp before', 'I dont understand, it is twice as fast' 
'Let me see your old dyno sheet'
'Hmmm, 415atw' now 520atw...

FFS!!! 

As much as i hate to admit this  I have had two cars that i have had to have dynapack power run'd. One was a 1300hp supra, and another was a T88 MR2 on remoulds (i shit u not ). For these the dynapack was much better.

Rob


----------



## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

Sorry yes, I won't block up the thread with this subject, but in response to you, I should clarify my comments some more.

As with any dyno, how the operator sets up the dyno and does the runs can skew the results somewhat, with any dyno runs you'll always need to know way more info than most people know such as gear ratio, air temp, baro, int he case of hub dynos - run length, in the case of rollers - tie down pressure etc etc

So in short, I suppose it's really more about getting an operator who runs the dyno's with a realistic/consistent setup and isn't chasing big numbers in the name of sales......sounds from what you've said that you're not one of those people so sorry if you thought I was implying that.

I totally agree with customers just looking at numbers....... most frustrating thing in the world........ as long as it goes better than before you brought it in that's all that matters in reality, but of course a lot of people want to talk numbers down the pub........ each to their own I suppose.


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

I've noticed that dyno threads tend to be somewhat forum cliche's attracting gigantic disagreements. It never fails:

There is the contingent of people who will not believe any numbers from a dyno as being credible or accurate no matter who did it or with what equipment. 

"What was the barometric pressure readings that day? What was the birth sign of the dyno operator? Is Mercury in retrograde? Is that at the crank? At the hubs? At the wheels? At the breakfast table? At sea level? Is the global warming reading correct? Did you use a geiger counter? Did you dyno the car on a leap year"


And if the numbers are to be believed, there is hair-splitting over what the "actual" power "really is." 

Some people are never satisfied with any readings and will present alleged evidence that such-and-such dyno company is not as reputable as this other one, or the dyno run was somehow altered or faked. 




How about that the GT-R is FAST AS HELL. That should clear things up :chuckle:


----------



## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

Don't think anyone will disagree with you there


----------



## Thrust (Jun 8, 2004)

bonzelite said:


> I've noticed that dyno threads tend to be somewhat forum cliche's attracting gigantic disagreements. It never fails:
> 
> There is the contingent of people who will not believe any numbers from a dyno as being credible or accurate no matter who did it or with what equipment.
> 
> ...


Excellent post. All power readings should come with a warning in LARGE LETTERS saying: Read The Bonzelite Proviso!!! :chuckle:

PS Someone gave me a ratio of 1 to 1.16 for rw to engine correction.


----------



## tweenierob (Aug 5, 2003)

I have now updated my software to state 'the Bonzelite Proviso' on all dyno graphs!! Very funny post mate!  pmsl

Always good to start the day with a laugh 

Rob


----------



## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

Top-o-de-mornin to ye fellowes

(tips hat here)

-bonzelite


----------



## FiLi (Jan 25, 2008)

R33_GTS-t said:


> 2 polar caps per km. As we speak, rainbow warrior has docked on the dyno to prevent another 'environmental catastrophe'.
> 
> Dyno losses:
> Puma Race Engines Technical Guide - Measuring Engine power - engine dynos and rolling road dynos


Thanks:bowdown1:


----------



## ybioul (Nov 23, 2007)

Benji Linney GTC said:


> Big thanks to Rob and the gang at perfect touch for the chance to put the 35 on their awesome Dastek 4wd dyno.
> 
> My car is totally factory standard, standard boost and run in
> 
> ...


What was the mileage of this car, just for me info ? thanks


----------



## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

When are you having the mapping done and exhaust work Ben? Will it be going back on the dyno for a before and after? :bowdown1:


----------

