# Driving with VDC off?



## Dr Forinor (Aug 8, 2008)

Just wondering how many of you drive around normally, day-to-day basis with the VDC off?

I have always been of the mentality that a "pure drivers" car should have no driver's aids and that it should all be the driver skill.

I'm not now saying that we start chucking the GTR about with the VDC off on public roads, but what are your opinions on this? 

What do you think about always having the VDC off and slowly getting to know the car for the car only without VDC and not getting to know the car with the VDC? And then work your way up to the limit of the car however you see fit? 

Appreciated that something as powerful as this, driver aids are handy and sometimes essential, but what would you say to someone who says "I want a pure drivers experience" in the GTR, with the only traction control being my right foot?


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

In town I leave it on std settings - never know when a kid will run out in front of you and you need to take avoiding action.

On a "drive", I tend to put in R mode.

I save off for tracks, and even then it has to be dry!

D


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## Dr Forinor (Aug 8, 2008)

Ok, just for discussions sake, if you bought the new Noble M600, would you use it only for track days?


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

As soon as I'm up to 70'C transmission its RRR rain or shine. Only use VDC off if I need to pull off fast on a downhill as R mode tends to drop the power but generally I find R mode is ample for fast road use.


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

Dr Forinor said:


> Ok, just for discussions sake, if you bought the new Noble M600, would you use it only for track days?


When do you pick up the M600?!

My guess is there wont be many M600's doing track time.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

R35Bren said:


> When do you pick up the M600?!
> 
> My guess is there wont be many M600's doing track time.


Do you actually think there will be many M600's at all? I don't, I saw the original blue one at Autosport this Jan and I had a voice in my head screaming "KIT CAR!".

Sorry, they are plain awful and I think anyone parting with £200K for one needs some serious therapy. I'd be looking for a used Ascari A10 or go for the new McLaren MP4-12C


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

Love the Ascari, what an animal! I'd have the Ferrari 458 or GT2-RS over the Mclaren.


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## Dr Forinor (Aug 8, 2008)

I just used the M600 as an example.

Guys, relax, the point of this discussion is I want to see what you guys think of driving on public roads with all driver aids off? Its not to see what car you would have over any other car or which car you think is awful.

If you bought the McLaren MP4-12C/Ferrari 458/whatever, would you switch off all driver aids off, on public roads? 

If someone was to say, "you're not a real driver 'cos you are driving with driver aids, the computers are saving you from having an accident", what would be your response?


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

As long as the driver aids don't get in the way of me having 'fun' I don't mind them being there. If I feel like they hold me back I like to be able to turn them off as explained above. In my opinion, on the public road you should be well aware of yours and your vehicles abilities and be in full control with or without driver aids.

If you need aids then you're driving outside of your abilities.


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## Dr Forinor (Aug 8, 2008)

Interesting, thanks for the reply.


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

Dr Forinor said:


> Interesting, thanks for the reply.


Are you a VDC off man then?


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Dr Forinor said:


> I just used the M600 as an example.
> 
> Guys, relax, the point of this discussion is I want to see what you guys think of driving on public roads with all driver aids off? Its not to see what car you would have over any other car or which car you think is awful.
> 
> ...


OK, sorry for going off topic, it was just seeing R35Bren talking about the M600 as an aside that set me off.

I personally wouldn't drive on a road with the VDC off, not just because of the warranty implications (real or imagined) but because of a lack of professional tuition driving a performance car on my part. Whilst I drive quickly and within my capabilities I certainly don't try to push the car to its limits on public roads. As I have no desire to track it either I can see little point in turning any driver aids off. If I wanted to drive a bit of an animal I would've brought a rear wheel drive car with a big V8 in it! As for someone telling you you're not a proper driver if you use all the electronic aids, **** 'em! They're not going to be the ones wondering why they've lost it on a greasy corner and ploughed into a field, or worse still, another car.

From what I understand, people have said that the VDC does hamper you on the track but I think that's the point, that is the place to use it.

Unless a car had some feature that actually prohibited a certain style of driving to a noticable degree I think they would always stay switched on for me.


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## Dr Forinor (Aug 8, 2008)

See thats what I was thinking, I am generally an "esp off/vdc off/etc off" sort of person. 

My Corrado has no driver aids, sorry the only thing it has ABS, but no stability program and I love it more for it. I can chuck the car into bends, around roundabouts, liftoff oversteer and keep it under control etc etc, and it's fairly nose heavy so isnt the easiest of FWD cars to go around a bend fast but I can manage it and I love the feeling of knowing that *I* was the one who kept it in check, that *I* was the one that provoked its oversteer but didnt lose control.

A friend who is of the same opinion said I should try driving the GTR with VDC off and I was thinking about it, with it in Race mode, it's plenty quick enough on public roads.

But then it got me thinking, does that make us less of a driver because we rely on an aid as a backup? 

Because I sure as hell know I would HATE the Corrado with any stability program, but then it is a LOT less powerful...

Thoughts?


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

R35 can get out of hand very quickly. There is a lot of mass, it is big and it can send lots of torque to the rear wheels. So I do not use VDC-off. Even with it on, the car will move around a lot more than even a typical BMW simply because of the amount of torque. It is far more lairy than a 200 BHP hot hatch driving the front wheels. In standing water the car can be a real handful compared to say the 400 BHP Evo, 480 BHP Impreza or E46 M3 I had before.

I don't know why people say the R35 has a lot of driver aids. Of the three diffs, only the centre one is actively controlled, not unlike a Haldex system in some ways but with the bias to the rear rather than the front. Then it is just run of the mill engine torque reduction and individual wheel braking.

Also I'm not sure why the motoring press are obsessed with oversteer, for a road car for most drivers they risk running out of talent and having an expensive and painful mistake. However, even with full driver aids turned on the R35 will happily do it in the wet.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Dr Forinor said:


> does that make us less of a driver because we rely on an aid as a backup?


This is the type of stuff Clarkson says, making people feel like they shouldn't use technology to assist. Thing is Clarkson can afford to stuff a car, I can't. Also, as thistle says, motoring journals/programs are obsessed with smoking tyres from power oversteer, but why? It may look good (not to me however) but it is driving a vehicle whilst not being in full control so it is of little purpose. Also, Clarkson and his cronies do it on an aerodrome and I wonder how many times they get it wong? You would also never be able to drive like that on public roads.

Using a turbocharger isn't cheating to get more power, power steering isn't just for nancy's, air con isn't for softies, it's all about harnessing technology and the natural progression that comes with it. To that end, I really don't care what some journo's opinion of driver aids are.

Even with VDC on I've had mine start to go sideways coming off a roundabout in 2nd too quick in the wet and it's a sphincter tightening moment!


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## Dr Forinor (Aug 8, 2008)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Even with VDC on I've had mine start to go sideways coming off a roundabout in 2nd too quick in the wet and it's a sphincter tightening moment!


Yup, I had VDC is Normal mode when I had it happen to me in the wet aswell.

Completely agree with what you are saying *Tazzmaxx*, and *thistle*.

I'm just throwing things in here that I have heard myself, curious as to what you lot think about these comments;

"An F40 driver can drive that thing without any aids, why cant you?"
"If its a handful with the aids off, then go slowly, but drive without aids, then when your confidence goes up drive quicker, but with aids off"

?


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## ebola (Aug 14, 2009)

I'd ask them if they had power steering.

Or if they think that only a solid rear axle counts.

Its about what you enjoy.

And (in part), when they kick in. ABS is there fora reason... when a tyre locks up, you've overdone it, and all that happens is abs kicks in. lesson learnt.

The Mitusibishi Evo reputedly has a better feel that the Suparu Impreza, in part because of the active 4wd system.

And above all, don't kill yourself - or worse, someone else - in the search for approval.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Fully auto, comfort all driver aids on (when wet and on public roads) THEN ALL OFF AT ANY OTHER TIME espec when on track.

Sumo, you joining me at Combe on the 16th July yet ?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

The comparison with an F40 is stupid, because SC/TC wasn't even around then (at least, not on performance cars).

But the GT-R was designed around its electronics. It's (a bit) like a modern jet fighter, i.e. designed to be very agile/bordering on unstable with the aids off.

As the guy who demonstrated some of the car's abilities at the Race Academy day said "with VDC off, it is no longer an "active" car".

I'll switch the VDC to R most of the time during road driving; that allows plenty of slippage whilst providing a safety net for the unforeseen.

On a dry track, then it's VDC Off, to prevent unwanted intervention (and reduce brake wear).

Following on from a previous post, what surprises me about the R35 GT-R, is how little of it is active. My old R33 V-spec had an active rear LSD back in 1997! Why hasn't the R35? And the diff never suffered from overheating either...


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## zeyd (Apr 15, 2008)

+1 with david

What's with the diffs in our cars ?

For the VDCoff thing : i drive in R. It's good enough. Never EVER been in OFF even on track


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## SpeedBear (Sep 25, 2009)

Didn't Ferrari say the 430 Scud was quicker around a track with driver aids on than off? Even for Schumacher (who is the 9th best driver in the world these days.....).


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## EvolutionVI (Sep 6, 2005)

VDC off on tracks....R for daily driving....Normal isn´t used in my GTR


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## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

Ive been driving the GTR for 19 months, Ive turned the traction control off from day one. Im still trying to figure out why this car has traction control! can people be that careless with their right foot? No, its not for idiots, I can only imagine that its there for countries whos roads do not offer the same level of traction as our own, that and wet weather/snow conditions.

The GTR has a phenomenal four wheel drive sytem that offers more than enough traction even with 700BHP, why would you want a computer getting in between you and the sensation of the road..

Turning traction control off and relearning the GTR is probably the most rewarding and cost effective 'modification' you can make. (if you dont have 722bhp that is) :thumbsup:


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## Crispy Rice (Apr 28, 2009)

I'll be honest. I have driven in RROff a few times. But i was scared i would drop it . So its RRR all the time for me.


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