# FAO Rupert



## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

Hope your R33 is now rebuilt after our little battle at Bruntingthorpe in February this year. Did you ever discover why the engine let go, and to what extent was the damage? Perhaps with your new engine installed you will be up for a rematch? 

Having spent some time reading this board, I have also noticed lots of bhp figures being bandied about, but was wondering how these are confirmed. I remember you were claiming 700ish bhp from 28psi, but was unsure how you knew this? Does anyone ever put their cars on rolling roads, or are the majority of figures what the cars are "supposed" to have with these modifications? If anyone else can answer this, please feel free. 

In the meantime, I would just like to say that your Skyline is one of the nicest I have seen and had all the drool worthy bits on. 0-60 in 3.8s is also not shabby for such a heavy old girl! 

Does Davey Jones post on here (the owner of the legendary Hyper Lemon JUN R33)? As that is also a mega-car that does not seem to be featured enough IMHO.

I will be at Snetterton on 25th November, so would love to exchange passenger rides with anyone who is willing....
Best regards


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

How true was the article in REVS about "the beast" when Dennis owned the car ? I seem to remember 211mph being mentioned - and the whooping of a McLaren.....

As for figures, the guys here had a rolling road day recently, "the beast" reaching 650bhp and Ruperts putting out 630-640bhp (although it reached a higher figure running more boost the day before).

I'm sure the guys here will give you more information...I am just a mere "fan".........

Cheers
Daz
http://www.myselector.freeserve.co.uk


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Glad I didn't know that at the time.....!*

Daz,
All I can say is that I am glad that I didn't know that this was Denis' old car, as I would have been well pooing my pants . I was already nervous when I heard claims of 750bhp being bandied about when we turned up, let alone had I thought that it was the car that had done an alleged 211mph at Brunters on a previous occasion!

Fortunately for me (and unfortunately for Rupert), there was a horrendous head wind for a start. In fact this was so bad that an RST that had done 149.9mph on a previous occasion with 165bhp @ wheels only managed 0.2mph faster with an extra 30bhp @ wheels!

The headwind was brilliant for air charge temps, but obviously a hinderance to top speed. Rupert had numerous runs (and it sounded the absolute nuts) each time attempting to come round the bottom bend that little bit faster to carry as much speed as possible up the straight. He could only get 172.5mph in the conditions on the day but kept trying to improve this and tried a bit too hard to go as fast as possible round that corner, as he got horrendous oil surge (blew it out everywhere), which sounded like it threw the crank out (horrendous death rattle after the last run).

I managed to get 180.6mph on that day, although this was achieved on the third run and we could have gone faster, but as no other Sapphire had ever been timed above 180, the timing boys felt that the day was done and that they could go home, so they left as soon as this was achieved.....

An R1 only managed to do 176.3mph in the same distance....

Went back on a hot day in May (30°C ambients) and managed to get 180.9mph and we will be going back in the New Year to see if we can better that, as I have hit 184-5mph since then, but this was not verified with the timing gear...
Best regards


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

Sounds like it was an "entertaining " day to say the least  

What's been done to the cossie to get those sorts of speeds / figures ? The most tuned i've heard of are the Reyland Escort Cossie and the grey Sierra Cossie that'd done 172mph last time i'd heard anything. 

Bet she fish tails a bit eh !?!

Have any of the skyline boys ever done anything like top speed runs other than the cars mentioned ? Be interested to see what sort of figures people have achieved. My GTI-R has a possible 160 to 165 in it TOPS (from what people have achieved).....personally I wouldn't want to try it - even on a private airstrip.

I take it bruntinghthorpe is pretty flat then ? Wouldn't want to be bumping around at those sorts of speeds !!

Cheers
Daz


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Reyland Escort - THE DADDY*

Guy,
Thanks for the welcome. I tried to word my post as carefully as possible, but I'm glad you got the gist of what I was trying to ask. I also commend you on your moves to dispel the bull that surrounds the majority of tuneable cars. I see it my mission to do the same for the Cosworth image, as most people seem to think that every Cosworth has 500bhp, whereas there are probably only a handful in the country that have a true 500+bhp.

I had hoped that you would be organising a day as Stewart Harrison ("800bhp" R32) had mentioned that you were doing something and I was hoping that we could get a few 180mph+ Cossies to tag along to that...


Daz,
The Relyand Escort has just done 187.7mph and is on the front cover of Performance Ford. His engine is similar to mine (built to the old Grp A touring car spec), but is a little less powerful, which is why we think that in ideal conditions mine should do 190, as the Sapphire is more aerodynamic than the Escort.

That "grey" Sapphire that did 172 was mine and in those days it only had 385bhp.... 

In the wet she fish tales well into three figures... 

Bruntingthorpe is a bumpy old concrete airfield, but is the best 1.8miles (apart from the A1M) available.... The VW proving ground five mile straight that the McLaren F1 did 241mph down would be nice...
LOL


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Cosse -v- Skyline shoot-out*

Guy,
Get a list of cars with their specs and mail them to me, they must be capable (in your opinion) of topping 180. I will get the RS big boys together and I know a particular magazine that would be MORE than willing to cough up the £3.5k, as long as they can see that some genuinely fast cars are going to be in attendance.....

This would take place sometime in the new year - interested?
Cheers


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: Speed*



GuyRatcliffe said:


> *As for the power, the 1000bhp GTRs are all parked next to the 500bhp Cossies, the 300bhp RS Turbos and the 350bhp Subarus, if you know what I mean (ie on the bar-stool in the pub)
> 
> I popped over to the rollers on Saturday to see the Imprezza day at Tuning Japanese. I think about 2 cars out of 30 made over 300bhp (most spectacular being the '350bhp one' that actually made 270bhp).....................needless to say I heard the phrase 'the rollers must be wrong' a few times and laughed quietly......
> *


I hear alot of this talk and try to distance myself from it. I don't quote a BHP figure for my own car anymore as i genuinley do not know what it is producing (back in jan it produced 285bhp but started to det JUST prior to peak, so they lifted - it has since had a fair amount done by Mark at Abbey - and work is continuing.....I'd only sell it for a skyline....and that's down the road some).

It is unfortunate that people brandish figures around "willy-nilly" - but to some people that is the only way of understanding the performance of a car (they have no other understanding of a car's performance. i.e. a 300bhp rally car would be lowly to them, but we know that they have CRAZY torque figures and have performance that most people would die for).

Anyway, i'd be interested to hear of an event of the kind being spoken of happening - i'd go along to spectate, but not to run.

Cheers
Daz


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Just so you know what you are up against...*

Guy,
The list of the regulars...

Escort Cosworth 513bhp (Engine dyno) - 187.7mph (Datron confirmed)
Escort Cosworth 552bhp (Engine dyno) - Not tested yet
RS500 541bhp (Engine dyno) - 182.6mph (Datron confirmed)
Sierra Cosworth 500+bhp - 183.0mph (Datron confirmed)
Sapphire Cosworth 515bhp (Engine dyno) - 180.9mph (Datron confirmed)
Sapphire Cosworth 500+bhp - Not tested yet

Please note in case some of you were thinking of ridiculing these times as not being quick enough, that they were done at Bruntingthorpe on the recently restricted length of runway. The last few hundred metres has been cordoned off by tyres, as this is where Fiat is currently storing several hundred pre-registerd cars... Had the runway been fully open, then you could add 3-5mph to these speeds.....

There may be some more that would be willing, but this is the list of people that I know would be up for it, so you will need to get at least six cars as well...
Cheers


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## Henry (Jul 19, 2001)

*Brunters*

True & NO Bullshit
The Official time of 211mph was driven by Denis with Hero from HKS in the front seat & Gary(GT-ART) in the back seat!BTW Denis was smoking his roll-up as well as driving............!!!!!!!!!

Henry:smokin: 

ps.Thats 0-211mph & back to zero in 2 miles.Those new to the Skyline GTR Forum may wish to visit GT-ART at their website for a brief history lesson.www.gtart.co.uk


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## gary (Aug 19, 2001)

*running weak*

Guy
the car was not running weak
the boost was 1.8 bar 
Gary
GT-ART.CO.UK


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Ridiculing*

Mike.

We wouldn't do that. We leave that upto plenty of others who do it regarding the Skyline. You guys have and do no doubt endure the same problems. I think all of us here have a big respect for the Pinto 2 litre and what it is capable off and it is good that these kind of events can happen and are held in good spirits. 

Regarding the figure mentioned of six, I am sure that we should make our best efforts to provide you with the best of the bunch, and maybe more. Starters:

1. Gary at GT-ART with 'The Beast' (keep up the good dress sense Gary ) R33 648bhp and climbing.

2. Rupert with 'The Wild One' (and that's just his hair) R33 653 bhp so far.

3. Mike Mr.OS Gieken 3 litre 'The Loud One' (110db mmmm) R33 undisclosed bhp, but a top car.

4. Ronnie/Mark 'The Essex One' (you'll know what I mean when you meet him) R33 undisclosed big bhp but more new parts floating over as we speak. 

5. And in the YELLOW CORNER 'Scotlands Finest One' R33 Super Lemon. Already proven but I am sure would be up for a challenge.

6. Kiki/Nana from Option 'Far East Representatives One' R33 undisclosed BHP but giving plenty of notice will I am sure come and impress.

7. etc., Post Guy with your specs and BHP for inclusion. I say Guy because he is thorough and won't let anything slip past him. He's a bit of a bully  .

So Mike this should make for a SUPERB event if all can make it.

See Ya.

glen.


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## Monte (Nov 13, 2001)

What a superb event this would be, can't wait.........!!

Dan


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Gents,

I was just thinking, it would be interesting to have an acknowledge supercar try the same thing.

I wonder if David would be interested in his 355, as a comparison??


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

How fast is it?


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

Fast for a Fiat!!!!!


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Ferrari*

Well if were going to have one lets at least have a fast one.

glen.


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

*The Fast and the Fiat.*

Glen,

Its not the fact that its 'super' fast, just a known compareble quantity.


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*Ruperts wheels*

On sunday whilst chatting to mark he said they had just recorded ruperts car at 712 BHP.
Best check with mark for official numbers.
Henry you got a number for Gary at GTART?
Gary you out there?
Nick.


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Not Fast Enough*

Scott.

By the sound of this it is going to be a very fast affair. No fun in blowing away a 355. I thought this was a challenge not a reference guide  .

glen


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

While on the subject of other supercars would anyone object to a Porsche GT2 le mans race car attending??
Think the top speed on this motor is 241 mph but will check, Guy i will forward you a mail off list...

Cheers

Stu


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*Ruf CTR*

I went out in a RUF 911 CTR at the weekend when I bought the GTR and that was pretty healthy. He owned the GTR as a toy.
ran 690 BHP at 1.2 bar and it has been mapped all the way up to 1.4 bar so it is well into the late 700s. I will ask the guy if he is interested as it is a real beast.
He also owns a race 935 kramer race car which is good for 240 as well. Some great kit.

Nick.


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Yes*

R32 Bigsly/nwelch

Now your talking guys  .

glen


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

I have notified by Chris Mann who runs the 200+ club, and he is willing to pass on the details of the event to Paul who owns the porsche for him to take part, so looking gooooood!!!

Cheers

Stu


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## keith (Jun 29, 2001)

*911 GT2*

GLEN DAVE JONES OTHER TOY
HIS GT2 IS VERY FAST AT LAST TRACKDAY AT KNOCKHILL I WAS ABOUT AS FAST IF NOT FASTER THAN EVERYTHING THERE APART FROM HIS GT2,I HAD 450 BHP AND I COULD NOT CATCH IT. HE HAS ALSO GOT A MEGA FORD RS200 
I THINK IT HOLDS THE RECORD FOR O-100 AND BACK TO A STOP IN ABOUT 12 SEC I THINK MAYBE BIGSLY CAN TELL US.
THAT CAR WAS AT GREERSPORT THE LAST TIME I WAS THERE

KEITH


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

Hi Keith,

Was on the phone to Harvey Gibbs (SCS) this afternoon where the RS200 is at the mo, and he mentioned he will be returning the car back to Greersport in the near future for Dave...
The RS 200 has a dyno'd 704 bhp and can only be described as one word "AWESOME!!!!!"

Cheers

Stu


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## keith (Jun 29, 2001)

*RS 200*

i heard that ahmed was back doing some mapping to it
a few months back


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

It has been a very fine job for Ahmed being able to sqeeeeze that much bhp from the motor, but on testing in August the car was still lightening fast although it did not have the big brakes or diffs so was limited to its runs...

Cheers

Stu


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*RS200*

The guy who built the engine for the RS200 is also the same person who built the engine for mine and Ahmed mapped it on the same engine dyno. Also all the engine dyno confirmed figures in my list were also mapped on the same dyno by Ahmed, so you know the figures are true and not "pie in the sky"... 

The RS200 is currently sitting at SCS and I drool over it everytime I pop across (I believe he popped the clutch whilst at the last testing session). Unfortunately Davey has changed the wheels from the gorgeous OE 16" Speedlines to a set of ex-Collin McRae Focus WRC 18" magnesium items, which being the wrong offset, totally spoil the look of the car (IMHO).

However, 670bhp on normal SUL is not to be sniffed at, expecially as running it on Elf Turbo fuel (119RON) instanly takes that figure to 704bhp with no other adjustments. Pretty good for an old 2.2 four-pot.... I can see the 0-100-0 record returning to Mr Jones (currently 11.5s by McLaren F1 GTR LM) .
Best regards


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

*RS 200 ???????*

Guys,

The RS 200 sounds like it may have the right stuff with 700+ bhp. 

BUT being a 0-100-0 record holder, it is probably only geared for 101 mph   

Also, the top Jap Skylines should be able to hit 200 with no run up and still stop with in 1 mile.  
Being most garages cars run 150-160 mph 1/4's!!  

JUN where are you when we need you !!!


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

Hi Mike,

I heard Bill mention that fuel "Elf turbo" before but did not realise it made so much difference just becos of the octane rating WOW!!!

Cheers

Stu


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## Joss (Jun 27, 2001)

*Mike Mate*

I've had to chop down the sig .... sorry but it really adds to the server load and detracts from the thread readibility.

Hope you don't mind too much. But I've left in the link to your Norfolk site, so peop can find all about the cossie.

Cheers


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## Jez (Oct 8, 2001)

Yeah, come on Jun !!!

I have heard about this Super Lemon - lets see what it can do  

If this event is gonna be as big as it sounds we need to get the best machines in the country there to give a good representation of the skyline contingent.

Anyone know any information on the state of play with Mr 3L OS Geiken ? :smokin:


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*In Hand*

Dear Skyliners

Hopefully we are going to have a chat at the Grasshopper Saturday to formulate a plan and strategy. Ooooh that sentence goes well with the NATO colourscheme don't you think Joss   .

glen


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

*Kiki*

Guy,

I'll call Kiki today for you.

Got to talk to him anyway.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

I think one of the Top Secret drag GTRs would be perfect for this event. On the Best Motoring GTR DVD it only takes the TS R33 400meters to get up to around 220km/h God knows what it must max out at!!??

I know the Top Secret Supra was over in the UK for a speed event or something...I remeber reading something along these lines in Max Power a few years back....if the event will have lots of publicity you guys should get teh Top Secret boss to bring his drag R34 round!!


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## JohnD (Aug 27, 2001)

DCD,

I saw the picture of the KPGC-10 and I was wondering..
Do you know the people from ET-Garage and Victory 50?
I am looking for a lot of parts for my HGLC-10 which is a left hand drive version of the GC-10 four door saloon.
Is there a way to order Windshield/body/suspension parts in Japan and a low cost solution for shipping these parts to Europe/Netherlands ?

Thanks already


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Doh*

Guy

Missed me again  .

glen

ps. Didn't think I was going to miss this did you. Surely you didn't think I wouldn't have over 550bhp in 2002. Guy what are you like  .


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

JohnD, Sorry I really don't know much about the older GTRs. I believe there is a magazine devoted to these cars...I'll have a look next time that I'm at the news agent and see if I can find a few contacts for you....
....they even put RB26DETTs in KPGC10s over here!! Nutters!


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*500 plus*

Guy.
Spudgun, alias Leigh, has just got his car back from Dragon. The spec is under the thread "what does 550 BHP feel like?". Looks great and we saw it at the Bolney meet so you may want to get in touch with him with the invite.
His email is [email protected].
Best of luck to you all.
Any ideas when it is as would like to watch with my humble 350 BHP!!

Nick


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Bruntingthorpe's Strict Guidelines*

Sadly Bruntingthorpe has some very strict guidelines and the only spectators that would be allowed would be those that turned up in the cars participating in the event. So you need to chat up and pile in with the owners of these cars.....

However, you should be able to squeeze five people in each car if you meet up somewhere before hand...
Cheers


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## Jez (Oct 8, 2001)

In that case can I be the first to put my name down for a ride  

I definitely don't wanna miss this and my 360ish ponies aren'y gonna get me in  

I can meet however is willing to take me at a location of their choice :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:


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## Rupert (Jun 28, 2001)

*Going F**king Nuts in cars!!!*

I'm in - Can't be on line long cause I'm in a hotel room and this call costs a fortune. Car's running like a dream now after the little hold up last month - Two cylinders went pop!!!

Post more tomorrow.

Rupert


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*RUF 911*

Guy et al.
Have just sent an email to the new friend I bought the 33 off. Said he might be interested in the top speed run so it would be great to see that 911 go. 690 BHP,carbon fibre panel and it weighs about 1100 kgs. He said the ruf could do with a run anyway.
Should be a good one.
Nick.


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## Rupert (Jun 28, 2001)

*Come on!!!*

Hello All,

As mentioned before, I am well up for another head to head – what fun!! The car is now running better than ever and we’ve managed to wind the boost up to 1.8 bar with slightly lumpier cams – many thanks to Mark from Abbey for producing something truly staggering!

I would ask though, that the head to head not been too near in the future as there are a couple of developments that I would like to be included, namely the Nitrous system, before I run her down the strip. I guess it will take a month or two before we have this up and operational, as long as we don’t blow anything else up!

The only problem now I can see on the horizon is the gearbox. She accelerates like falling off a cliff and I can’t see the standard box taking much more of it. Oh well…

Please just let me know a date and time and I will be there to take anyone on!!!

Regards,

Rupert


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Reliability?*

Sounds like you Skyline boys have some reliability issues when you go for big power. Not that I'm rubbing it in or anything (who me?), but mine has now done 16k miles on the 500 engine and still pulls 186mph.....










Not bad for an ickle 2 litre....  . I also don't want this event to take place until at least February / March next year, as I have some additional mods that I want to have happened before hand. So will be aiming for around that time, which will mean we all have plenty of time to get organised.
Cheers


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## SteveC (Jul 2, 2001)

*reliability.*

Hi Mike,

reliability @550 bhp isn't too much of an issue, apparently the bottom end should be good for about 700 bhp, Rupert was just unlucky on that front...
there are plenty of 500 + skylines out there that used as daily motors.

I believe Middlehurst will even warranty work done around this power figure..

Mine wont qualify for the great event as a baby with ~ 380 bhp so have a good one and I'll be at one of them eventually !!

Cheers
Steve


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## sammy (Jul 19, 2001)

*big hp skylines*

with reference to guy's list of those going/invited to go, whatever happened to david yu's godzilla is it no more?? if it is still around shouldn't it be going? or is it one of those already on the list?


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## Joss (Jun 27, 2001)

*David's car*

It got put back to near standard and was then sold....


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

I would like to add that i used mine daily to and from work in the summer!! and was very tight drive for its age, but there again it has only 47,000 on the clock and most of them were km's...

Cheers

Stu


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

*Option.*

I have just got off of the phone to Kiki.

I told him about the planned event and he is very keen.

Unfortunatly the Option R33 is still in a couple of boxes   

But the rebuild is schedualed for the beginning off next year,
after he has finnished giving a customers Supra 8-900bhp.   

So when its in one piece and hes had time to set it up, then he'll be there. 

AND I think he wants the title !!


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*911 RUF CTR for the run..*

just spoke with Mark and he is up for the high speed run with the 700 BHP 911 as he said he could do with giving the ruf a run.
Hell of a car and can you let me know where and when Mike so I can let Mark know.
What is the cost? Will there be any mags there?

Cheers, Nick.


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## Phil (Sep 3, 2001)

Guy - it's grey/black and "tarmacy"


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## Ged (Jun 29, 2001)

For anybody reading this thread or any thread Phil has contributed to....
If he has nothing more constructive to say can he just not bother.


Idea....what about a poll to have Joss remove Phil's access to the site.


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Ba Humbug*

Phil take no notice of them and keep posting your tongue in cheek comments. They are just BULLIES.

glen


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Bruntingthorpe*

This will give you some idea of the surface.










As you can see it is not brilliant as it is concrete. However, you will only suffer from stone chips if you follow someone round at close range, and as they only let the cars go off one at a time this shouldn't happen anyway....

Best regards


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## Robb (Oct 10, 2001)

I am green with envy when I read about the things you do over there with your Skylines. There are only 5 Skylines in the state I live in and they doent do much but go to car shows.

some day I am going to fly over there and hang out with people why truly know about these cars!


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Hangin with*

You know you'd be more than welcome Robb.

glen


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

Guy,
I'm not being funny, but I think you should be aiming for the 600+bhp cars, as I don't think the 500bhp ones are going to be anywhere near enough to do the job (not that I mind, just thinking of the public humiliation for you guys). 500bhp in a Cosworth gives it just over 400bhp per tonne which is enough to get 180+mph. A Skyline is going to need 640+bhp to break the 400bhp per tonne barrier.....

I also say this as I am pretty sure that Bruntingthorpe have a car limit as well. So really just need six of your very best to go head to head with our six best...

However, for those that want to participate in another event, there is one being organised by the 200+ club at Alconbury for the middle of next year. This will be 0-60, standing quarter, top speed in 1.2miles, as well as a timed circuit section to find the fastest overall car. If you are interested in attending this, please drop me a mail.
Best regards


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*600+*

Guy.

As per our conversations Mike is echoing what I said re 600+ and the Power to weight over a given distance ratio. 

To be quite honest this ain't gonna be a top speed challenge except in name only. Well it might be for plenty of other cars but I just ain't too sure about ours  . Perhaps if a mag is prepared to pay for the day should we not consider DRIVING our road cars over to the VW/Audi test track and then top speeding 'em. Foot nailed to the floor for at least a couple of miles would achieve a more realistic top speed figure. Because at the end of the day this a road car challenge/event and should be held in the spirit as such with a longish drive and then a Top Speed run with meaning. 

Might sort the road cars out from the specialised one event cars.

By the way I hate boats so if we do go I'll be on the old Eurotunnel.

glen


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*Power v Drag*

Mike.

Power is all very well but the Cosworth is not exactly known for its graceful lines and areodynamic prowess.
I am not slaggign the car off at all as you have some monster cars there but once you get to a termianl velocity, at these speeds all sorts of shite can happen.
The skyline was a 50k car new, with a whole host of technology thrown at it. The cossie not. Aerodynamics being one of it's strong points of the GTR and with the adjustable wing that should help. I don't know the exact figures of .cd but it will be alot less than an escort cossie or sierra.
So my call is power is all very well but at 150mph plus, the wind has an enormous effect on the car and can a big spolier is effectively a brake as we all know. 
Why does an 800 BHP indy car top out at 250 and a F1 CAR AT 210 -215....drag and downforce. It spends on what your motor was designed for. 
So maybe 500 BHP will be more than enough to get a good run.

Nick - in love with my new 33 but still major respect for Duckworth and Cosford's creations.


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

nwelch,

Are you trying to say that if they take off the handles form 
their 'Dagenham Dustbins' they will be faster.   

A few years ago I worked with the Ford aerodynamasist who worked 
on the Sierra Turbo, sorry Cosworth. According to him:  

The 'whale tale' wing gives little downforce that the RS500 needed 
the Std Sierra boot spoiler which did a better job that the bigun'.

Also the mentioned Sierras are at the MAX of engine output.

Mr Rainbird, you have to realise you are only toying with baby Godzillas.

With a current 0-300km record at 13 seconds for a GT_R, they can manage more than
our humble UK versions.

The Cossy IS the old kid on the block.


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## Warren (Jul 30, 2001)

*Cossie V GTR*

Nick has a good point on the aerodynamics and I for one notice the problems getting up to high speeds with the rear wing T6KYO will recall a bumper hugging run this year to get the top speed, I for one believe this will throw the balance ether way swings and round abouts if you like with the Skyline weight and the Cosworth spoilers, Mike has certainly pushed the barriers of top speed. I don't think their will be any winners just some great examples of two great cars pushing each other. Having said that I would love a six speed box.


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## jamie m (Jul 24, 2001)

*FAO Guy*

I've just read through and brought myself up to speed on this thread, I noticed I'd been mentioned.

My car will be tuned shortly with 2510's, 600 injectors, Fuel pump ect. The car the bits have come off ran 510 bhp on the rollers and saw the 200MPH speedo of the clock (probably a true 185). I think Abbey will probably better the bhp figure.

I have done Brunters before and have driven various machines there. I saw my 32 350BHP reach 7800 rpm in 5th before having to brake. Aston Martin do a lot of development there and regulary see over 200mph with timing gear. My only concern is that if the runway is shorter it will influence procedings. When I was there there was a 60mph right hander at the end so you didn't have to come to a complete stop.

Guy, I realise your looking for us to put our best foot forward and will require the 600 plus cars, however if you need the numbers let me know.

As an alternative, there is some good Autobahn near the Brabus factory that Brabus often see over 220mph on. It would give us a 5 to 6 mile run which we could control with two way radio's. It is legal and would be free! It's a 5 hour journey, we could stay in a Motel and then start at say 3am in the morning through til 7am??


Only a suggestion.

Regards to all, and I hope the event comes together.


Jamie.


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

Hi Guy,

In respect to the GTR's themselves, i am aware that the R34 have a six speed as standard, but will i gain anything top end from purchasing a six-speed box for my R32, i.e a Hollinger, or Quaife!

Thought the question would be relevant in respect to the "top speed runs"....

Cheers

Stu


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## jamie m (Jul 24, 2001)

Guy,

To get a specific answer to your question I suggest you e-mail Autocar.

They have done it quite a few times. As for the being near the ring, I don't know.

Jamie.


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

Guy,

Many thanks for the advice, as you can see i am throwing a number of ideas around at the mo!!
I understand that the sequential box can shave up to 3/4 of a second on a quarter which is mighty impressive, but the downside is the cost circa £8,500 i think!!
I am disappointed to hear that Dave is not going to run the JUN car, but i am definitely wanting to run mine with or without the support of Greersport..

Cheers

Stu


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Damn*

So where does the Super Lemon run then? Not only Crail surely. 

Did Greersport not say ANYTHING positive then Guy.

Mind you each to their own I suppose.

glen


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## Skylining (Jun 28, 2001)

*More nuts on the autobahn*

Guy,

As you know I’ve max out my standard R33 GT-R daily on German autobahn’s many times,  there are a number of things that people need to know about making the best of extreme speeds on autobahns.

First the speed limit is 130Kph the ‘unlimited’ speed is really a de-criminalized one.  Most insurance companies don’t have to pay up if they can prove you where driving over 160Kph 

Most autobahn is limited, the surface is usually very uneven, it is mostly only 2 lanes wide, the traffic in the week is mostly very heavy, (the unlimited bits keeps it moving) timed speed runs are illegal. 

Most German cars have a 155Mph speed limiter for a very good reason; it’s unsafe to drive on most autobahns at anything above that. 

The Skyline GTR Vspec’s would be dangerous at high speeds on most autobahns because the suspension is too hard. The handling would be hell to hold onto. My standard suspension is well suited to most conditions but I’ve had a few moments.

I can recommend a few suitable stretches if you really need to try it.

Paul.

PS my R33 is very stable at 170Mph and Ford Mundano is dangerous at 130Mph so god knows how bad a Sierra must be over 150Mph.


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

Guy,

You may have got a slightly negative response, not down to you but other circumstances, leave it with me, as you know my motor is there at the mo and am in regular contact with them, will try some arm twisting...
BTW It also depends on Dave's schedule as he is a very busy guy at the mo....

Regards
Stu


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## Bruce (Jul 2, 2001)

PEGLEG said:


> *For anybody reading this thread or any thread Phil has contributed to....
> If he has nothing more constructive to say can he just not bother.
> 
> 
> Idea....what about a poll to have Joss remove Phil's access to the site. *


So PegLeg Who are you and What car do you drive. As there is no information in your Profile And as Phil now is the owner of a Very nice R33 Vspec I think he has right to Post were and when he likes, If you don't know Phil has gone out of his way to make sure there are lot's of good Pic's on this Web site from Kemble and other evens he has been to! 

Giveing Register members help with any Computer related Problem, he is a very good teckey 


So if nothing else being a part of the Board and adding to it in a Constructive way is some thing he has done. SO every one has a little some thing to add and some times these Treads do get a little hard work so a little light hearted ness brings a  to more than a few faces


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

Yep, chill out Ged, Phil's OK! At least he's got a sense of humour, well kind of!


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## jamie m (Jul 24, 2001)

Well said Peter & Bruce.

JM


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## Bruce (Jul 2, 2001)

*Re: Reliability?*



Mike Rainbird said:


> *Sounds like you Skyline boys have some reliability issues when you go for big power. Not that I'm rubbing it in or anything (who me?), but mine has now done 16k miles on the 500 engine and still pulls 186mph.....
> 
> Not bad for an ickle 2 litre....  . I also don't want this event to take place until at least February / March next year, as I have some additional mods that I want to have happened before hand. So will be aiming for around that time, which will mean we all have plenty of time to get organised.
> Cheers *


This was a Pic that My Wife took as she was popping to the shops, THe Police man who court her when she came out of Tesco was not Amused but let her off as she is a good looking women beat that for luck

Regards 

Bruce


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## Phil (Sep 3, 2001)

Pegleg - What car do you drive exactly???? -I have no referance to this what so ever!!!
(Could it be a "placky-pig")
I do hope that you get good advice concerning the fitting of a leopard-skin interior to your Ford Orion though

Guy- I only wish that I had the time to research all the threads made by people - unfortunatley - being the owner of a computer company - I am far too busy for such friviolities

For your information Guy - The track is made from re-inforced concrete in approximately 22'x8' sections - but some grass does grow in-between - I have measured this grass with the micrometer but as grass thickness is dependant on ambient moisture content, I am having to take several readings over a period of time - also due to the photo-synthesis process being mainly active during night-time, this is proving to be extremely difficult (you just can't get the staff) - but as an approximation you can work on .084mm to .087mm blade thickness

I hope this helps

Phil


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## Ged (Jun 29, 2001)

Phil & Bruce, 
I have had an R33 V-Spec for 3 years, nearly standard most of that time.
I am soon to replace this with a one with a lot more power you will see a mention of it higher up in this thread).

I love a laugh as much as the next man...
but Guys post just before your tacky response was a serious concern.

Phil & Bruce & PeterE, 
I think attempting to travel at 200mph plus as most lucky Skyline owners will be aiming for on the day is a serious business and a dangerous business and not to be taken lightly.
This was not the place for misplaced humour.

The post you have just made however was more the type of response Guy was soliciting 
(What am I trying to imply about Guy here? )


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## Peter (Jun 27, 2001)

You've got a short memory Guy!


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## Rupert (Jun 28, 2001)

*Gritty reality...*

Quick synopsis of Bruntingthorpe surface – crap. The primary problem is the stone chips, it’s like driving on Brighton beach. No kidding, after I ran at Bruntingthorpe I not only had to have the engine rebuilt, I also had to re-spray the front splitter and side pods.

My experience may have been a one off however, from the noises some people are making, I feel this may not be the case. If it is going to be gravel again, is there any way we could all chip in (pardon the pun) for a street sweeper to prepare the surface beforehand?

Regards,

Rupert


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## Henry (Jul 19, 2001)

*Brunters*

Many "moons"ago this started out as an interesting Thread but I now must speak my mind & put some of the points raised to rest as I don`t think some of you hairy chested chaps have any idea of what you are talking yourselves into.

Bruntingthorpe is a car wrecker,it is harsh & dirty.Stones & tyre bits litter the surface.I know this can be swept but I have been there on several occasions having arranged the above but I guess the concrete surface,laid in World War Two,is past its sell by date and the sweeper can`t clean it properly.

My next point is why risk your lives for a Magazine?You will get nothing from them,they will not pay for new engines,tyres,brakepads,re-spray..etc.....They will not pay you any money or give you any help if things go wrong(usually they take the piss & print the most stupid pictures)

At the end of Two miles you have to STOP!(slow down to at least 30mph)then make a right turn to work your way back to the start again.Think about it,180-200mph to almost zero.Now let me tell you the best bit that I have saved for last,there is No gravel-trap,No run-off area,NOTHING,just a line of cones,brandnew cars and huge car transporters.If you miss all these obstacles then you hit a solid wall of earth!then trees & bushes!

After meeting so many of you this year at the various Events that have been held around the country I would like to say that I have had a great time & a good laugh,however I have a fear of Bruntingthorpe and I would hate to see any of my friends hurt or worse.

I have driven the "beast" at 217mph at Bruntingthorpe and my Blitz Supra was quicker..............Cossies,there is no contest and if you want one then lets all go to SANTA POD,its much more fun,a hell of a lot safer and we all can run our cars regardless of how good a driver we are and how much power we have.

I am not the spokesman for the GT-R Register,its just my point of view.........BUT I am going Drag Racing!Brunters R.I P.

Kind Regards All,
Henry:smokin:


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Points*

Dear All

As stated in previous posts I am ALWAYS 'game on' for a bit of a challenge and do realise that occasionally these challenges can be somewhat dangerous. As for the danger element that Henry has mentioned this is a good comment but we must remember that risks we take out on the road can sometimes be more dangerous than the Bruntingthorpe issues. At least Bruntingthorpe is a somewhat controlled environment. 

Now to contradicte myself. I respect Henrys (and Ruperts etc.,)views, as I hope they would repect mine, being that they have experienced Bruntingthorpe on more than one occasion, and I for one will be having a re-think. This judgement is based on the "you learn by your own mistakes or learn by other peoples" and as a group/club should maybe, yes you've guessed it, HAVE ANOTHER POLL.

My opinion, again, is that a Top Speed challenge MUST be a Top Speed challenge. The Cossie boys know they are on a hiding to nothing but credit to 'em they are prepared to have a go and after Ruperts experience expect a result. What they don't understand is that RB26 tuning has taken off in the last year and has well overtaken the Pinto in the power stakes. And least we forget Skylines over here aren't specifically built for 1/4 mile, 0 to whatever over whatever mileage, 0-60 etc., They are built to cover all these areas, and bloody well, but the main one isn't to be levelled against Cossies, EVO's, Scoobys etc., 

Points re the Mags are good as we have no control over content and end result figures.

Therefore if we are to make this a Top Speed challenge perhaps we should understand Henry's points and do this in the safest manner. This would surely be achieved by putting more effort into arranging this event at the Mercedes/VW/European test track. I appreciate costs are an issue but if planned well would be an excellent experience AND give us a true Top Speed with excellent run down. I mean good point Henry I for one don't want to max my car then have to slam on the anchors with 1.5 tons from over 190-200 mph because of some bleedin parked cars. 

Perhaps we have been sucked along by a wave that has come from nowhere, has no force to it, and is going nowhere. Plus we ain't really got anything going on now the end of year is here so are probably a bit bored to boot.

Santa Pod will be cool but this thread is about Top Speed.

I await a 'damn good thrashing' then.

glen


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Top Speed*

Yeah 'Top Men' Guy/Henry checking it out. 

I don't care if anyone else doesn't go to a European test track because I'll go on me own if it means I can get a true reading etc.,. I think we need to find out what the costings etc., are involved on a per person/open day basis and then worry about who will or won't go. 

Elvington wouldn't be a problem re travelling. It's all about getting the right place NOT the wrong place in the nearest location surely.

glen


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Cossies have also moved on....*

Glen,
I think you will get a bit of a surprise, as Cossies have also benefitted from the turbo technology of the Skylines etc. Check out these T66 equipped cars - 670bhp is now possible from the Pinto lump with a 9200 rev ceiling. A car thus equipped is hoped for at our little get together. We also expect to crack 200mph...

In the limited space available, this is where power to weight will come into it's own....


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## Rupert (Jun 28, 2001)

*Skylines are best!*

I agree with everybody – Hurray!!!

Mike – I really do think we should have a top speed shootout and settle this one properly.

Henry – I completely share your reservations on Brunters being a dirty circuit (bombed out WW2 airfield).

Glen – I’m with you all the way with regard to finding the right location, no matter the cost or travel.

Guy – I’m behind you fully with regard to a recognisance run in a couple weeks time.

Aren’t I a lovely chap…

…from Rupert


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## Rupert (Jun 28, 2001)

*To continue...*

Sorry - forgot to conclude...

...Perhaps in the intervening ten days before Guy and Henry scope enemy territory, we should all have a look around and cost up some alternatives. A wise and calculated decision can then be taken after we have all the facts.

Suffice to say, no matter what appears in the fine print, this clash of the titans will happen!!!


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*Why the challenge?*

Mike.
I do find it hard to believe that an older gent feels the need to issue this sort of challenge. I thought this was the kind of thing left to us "whipper snappers" as I am known as. 
Obviously you see the GTR as a superior car as you would not need to issue the challenge.
I don't seem to recall GTR owners snooping into the cossie site and issuing emails and challenges.
As i said before the Skyline is a legend and a 50k car. The dag dustbin not. I have just got my 33 and didn't even think about a cossie. Maybe an escort? Nah. 
It is all about arrival and departure and out of the 2, I know which ones get the looks and the respect.
I hope you get yer ass whupped but there are some nice cossies around. But again, how much have you spent to get it to 550 BHP. Martin Hadland told me how much he has spent and that is just worrying. He BROKE a complete front diff casing at 3 sisters this year as it couldn't handle the power. GTR drivetrain is far stronger and better engineered.
I hope you all have a lot of fun anyway and I will continue to enjoy the looks I get and people pointing whilst parked up next to the cosworth. Plus the women tapping on the window is a plus too. Plus I am still young as well!!  
Nick


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*The whys and wherefores....*

Nick,
I find it hard to believe that such snobbery should be evident from someone who is obviously interested in fast cars...

However, the idea was to get some like minded people together to have a bit of fun, as well as seeing if the Cossies have still got what it takes to live with the latest technolgy has to offer. 

The Cosworth seems to be what everybody uses as a benchmark, as it was the King in its day (perhaps you are too young to remember, but it was a legend well before the Skyline, and was killed off by the rules being changed to exclude it from competition, as it was too successful for it's own good - similar story to the Skyline in fact...), and this sort of event would see if it can still live with the latest "fad" from Japan.

Doing a 500bhp Cossie engine costs just as much as it does to do a Skyline properly (£10-15k depending on spec - and that's just for the engine, and does not include the transmission, brake and suspension upgrades required to cope).

As to your obviously narrow-minded comments, it takes all sorts and it would be a sad world if we all had the same opinion on things. What personally floats my boat is being able to humble so-called supercars on track days etc, by being to out-handle (full Grp A spec coil-over suspension, rear beam and fully corner-weighted with optimised geometry), out accelerate (find what other cars have 400+bhp per ton - the list would fill one hand) and out-brake (AP six-pots) cars that you would normally not expect a family car to annialate.

As to posing, I have another (slower) car for that... And who looks the most silly - no-one bats an eyelid when a Skyline / Porsche / Ferarri / Lamborghini overtakes a Cossie on track etc (as it is expected), but when a Cossie does that to any of the above, everyone sits up and takes notice (and it certainly changes their preconceptions of what a fast car is and what a REALLY fast car is.... ).

I fully expect the fastest car on the day to be a Skyline, and if it is, we won't have lost too much face, but if it isn't, I'll remind you of your "superior" comments.... To me speed comes above all else in my choice of "weapon"....

By the way, you must be ugly if you need a car to impress the girlies...
LOL


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*so it is true*

that cossie owners can't take a joke 
obviously humour and sarcasm went a miss in the norfolk area and beyond.
You guys need to lighten up. But hey thanks for your full run dow on the car. Way to serious.
you really think I rely on a car to pull. You fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Lighten up Mike and pull your pecker out of yer tailpipe.
I hope you have a great day. 
You migh tbe able to pass a lambo on a track but who cares. It is still a majestic piece of italian engineering. I would never compare the GTR to a lambo and I can't believe you do with your cossie. You really need to chill.
So do you really use your other car for pulling? Oh dear.
As for ugly, nah. cossies are ugly I know that and most of the owners are overweight, middle aged porkers who are stuck in the late eighties wishing they were Don Johnson with the white testa.
Here's to being in my twenties and a member of the chemical/IT generation.

PS I think you will find that the Evo is now the benchmark for performance.


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Me bite? Nope....*

LOL - Nick, I think you have obviously forgotten what the smilies are supposed to indicate... Re-read my post and take note of where they are inserted. Tongue firmly in cheek taking the pish... I think it is me reeling you in.....

I thought it was the Scooby...

Yours, perfectly chilled in Norfolk


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## Rupert (Jun 28, 2001)

*Recognisance Trip*

Guy,

Are you still going to have a look at Brunters? When are you looking to go? Any chance of me tagging along?

Rupert


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Cd*

In response to an earlier posting, the Cd for a Sapphire Cosworth is 0.33, so it looks like the Cossie is lighter AND more areodynamic...


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## R32BigSly (Oct 17, 2001)

Having initially suggested the "challenge" with me being a regular on the RS board, i see that a fair bit of rivalry had grown up out of this...
I would just like to say that i want this to be a light-hearted meet and would like everyone who participates to have a fun and have a memorable day with like minded "petrol-heads"...
I can sit on the fence with this subject, owning both an RS Cosworth and a Skyline, but i also think they are both great cars with their own "unique" features...
Although i too am still a youngster, i have worked hard to funds these cars and they both do give me plenty of enjoyment which makes it all worth while...

I hope that we do agree on a venue etc, and can collect some good memories that we can ALL laugh and chat about afterwards at the local boozer!!!

Cheers

Stu


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## Daz (Aug 14, 2001)

As someone who will not be invited to attend this event (no skyline and no cossie), all i can do is look forward to seeing the outputs from the event.

I hope it all goes to plan, and EVERYONE gets what they want from the day.

It sounds like there are potential safety issues with the venue - so i hope you all get that sorted.

I hope the rivalry does not become to heavy as this is being organised for everyone to enjoy. As Guy said AGES ago - 500bhp in ANY car is hell of an achievement - regardless (i'd love to have that kind of power in my GTI-R  ).

I also hope you get some sort of magazine feature - preferrably in a mag that aren't going to put [email protected] comments and stupid pictures - as this event would be far above that kind of thing. Be nice if someone could get video footage too.

Chill people - and get things organised.
Daz


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## chris200+ (Nov 21, 2001)

*top speed /shootout event-long post!*

hello to all ! 
i'm sure a few of you know me, through the 200 plus club which i run. 
just to fill you all in on this weeks developments: 
i was already thinking of running an invite only trackday, with top speed and timed runs, when Stu (big sly) suggested a similar event was being looked at on here. 

i have a contact who already runs timed events, and have now met with him to discuss. he ran one at elvington this wekend. the fastest bike was a tuned hyabusa that did 217mph on the 2miles there! 

i am proposing to run an invite only car event, i'm calling "ten of the best". i'm sure some of you already know about it. so far i have enlisted the help of quite a few people, many thanks to : 
Mike R, Guy, john brannigan (supras), scooby club, and a few more to come, to look at a possible invite list. 
this wont obviously be the "definitive list", we may miss a few cars, but its supposed to be a fun, well run (hopefulyl), FRIENDLY, gathering of some of the countrys best cars, from each club/group. 

i had considered brunters, but can vouch for the stones etc having done one there. elvington has a similar, maybe longer, runway. very clear, extremely fast. trouble is its up here in darkest yorkshire, which may preclude a few good cars? 

therefore we have looked at alconbury, and are hoping to do it july 27th (sat) 2002. alconbury has a tarmac runway, and loads of side roads etc. 
one drawback- 1.2miles for the runaway, therefore its not technically the real top speed, however its going to be spiced up slightly by having a timed head to head 1/4, with lights, and a timed circuit for lapping! 
i am already in discussion with a magazine or two for coverage, maybe video/dvd rights etc. i am also open to suggestion for sponsorship etc, to try and cover costs. if i can get it free of charge for people, so much the better, but we should keep it very reasonable. the event hire/timing gear/marshalls/catering/public liability insurance will all come under the company i'm using. thats their field. 
the response to the idea has been as good as you would expect. 
Running The 200 plus club trackdays/events has taught me a fair bit about sorting events, i'm confident it will work ok, and with a limit of say 50-60 invite cars, no reason why queuing should be a problem. 
i've done the Revs magazine top speed days at alconbury, and even though its only 1.2miles the top cars were hititng 179mph, with loads of braking space. the timed 1/4s , and ciruit laps will provide some fun also, and allow some head to head runs (1/4s) 

spectaing in limited numbers would be allowed, the organiser is talking £5 per person. again, this may have to be invite only? 

unless i am talking out of place, i can't see why this event cannot cover most of the friendly "who's quickest" type banter, while accepting its not 100% perfect. 

in addition, for the genuine top speed fans, i have already sorted elvington airfield for sept )poss29th) 2002. we are having a 200plus trackday there. we will also be having the 2-3mile runway as well, with the same timing gear, so no reason why a car can't crack 200mph if its owner wants to. 
this event is open to selected groups, such as this, it will be maybe £50-60 each, as its just a normal trackday that needs paying for,but more on this later. 
you are welcome to email me with any thoughts, offers or ideas for sponsorship (!) etc. liason from each group should sort the cars out, plus reserves, 
what do you reckon folks? 

ps thats a long first post on a group! 
regards 
chris
__________________
Chris Mann 
The 200 Plus Club-The Performance Car Club 
www.200plusclub.co.uk 
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/200plus


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*Benchmarks...*

Still my money on the EVO..
Hasn't some finish bloke called Makkinet or makiner had a little bit of success in one lately??. 
4 world titles and a few manufactureres should seal that one. And it wasn't even a WRC spec. It was stiill running under group A ruling whilst poor old mr blue oval was pumping cash into a family hatch under WRC spec.
I hope they get it this time though and hope to see some of you in wales to watch the flying scotsman do his best.
Mike you going down with your rally bred motor? 
We had a chat with Keith (mr Duckworth) through a close friend, Ben Scammel, that name should ring a bell (Dick Scammell owned Cosworth) and the cd figures were somewhat different to what was published. Engineers don't you just love em. 
Want the intro?
LOL, Nick.
At peace before ratcliffe hits me with his carvery belly.


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Cd figures / Evo*

Nick,
With regard to the Cd figures, are you sure that you are not getting confused with the three-door, whereas mine is the common as muck Sapphire shape...

As to the Evo, I actually have to agree, as I have spent some time in an Evo VI Extreme RS (lightweight model without the active yaw control), and it was THE best car I have ever driven and Escort Cosworth.

The Evo's steering was 1.6 turns lock to lock, so the tiniest flick of the wrist was enough to fire the car and set it up into some amazing drifts. Gearbox was like a rifle bolt and the lag was virtually non existant. The only thing that I didn't like was the understeer, you had to adjust your driving style, as too fast into a corner would have the front end running wide. Go in a bit slower and then nail the throttle as soon as you have turned in was the way to do it.

By comparison the Escort feels antiquated, the gearbox is more sloppy than stirring cold porridge and the transmission has just too much play in it. 

However, the reason I like my car, is that it is a total animal to drive (rwd) and requires the utmost committment, attention and concentration to keep on the road, it doesn't drive itself and would spit you off the road backwards through a hedge as soon as look at you, so it requires me to be part of the package, I am the one that it making it go fast, not the computer...

Chris,
I am so looking forward to Alconbury, but don't relish the standing quarter, as 2wd and 500bhp don't go well for standing starts..... Shame it couldn't be a standing half mile instead of quarter, as that would be something unique. It used to be this at the Brighton speed trials, but proved too dangerous on the limited space available. Alconbury does not have this problem - what do you say? Would make things even for us 2wd boys (Supras as well), as traction is a real problem and gives the 4wds an unfair advantage....
Best regards


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## chris200+ (Nov 21, 2001)

guy/mike/rest

elvington also is very flat, not got the incline like brunters. i can ask if you like about if and when they sweep the runway, but it does seem cleaner than bruntingthorpe. will sort that one later, we will definitely be there in sept 2002 so you are welcome to come.

alconbury-
the idea will be to run the standing 1/4 timing on the same runway, the left hand lane then keep going to complete a 1.2 mile run, with timing and top speed at that point. 
the right hand lane will turn off after the 1/4 , and head back to the start area, or be able to head over to the circuit set up for some more fun. 
basically there will be minimal lost time, if you want to spend all day thrashing round the track set up its upto you! it will of course be a made up circuit, using the side roads/service roads, with coned bends etc. i seem to remeber they have a tarmac high speed bend and some large spare areas for such a set up. the event organise ris going there this week to look at layouts for track, the runway and 1/4 mile bit is straightforward.
he also uses proper timing gear, with christmas lights as per santa pod. both cars going head to head will get a timing slip on their return. the left hand lane will also get a top speed. a leaderboard will be run during the day, with commentary etc.

hope this sounds acceptable to all. i'm looking to work the fine detail out over winter, but will get the date fully confirmed and costed first so we can plan it all out.

any suggestions etc/comments ?
rgds
chris


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Alconbury*

Chris,
See the bottom part of my last post....


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## chris200+ (Nov 21, 2001)

mike
alconbury-
setting up a standing 1/2 mile shouldnt be a prob, if thats what is wanted, will have a chat with him. i know that the 1/4 times for big power rwd cars are limited due to traction, but if we can get a 1/2mile e.t and speed that would be good, as well as the e.t and speed at the end (approx 1.2miles)

at elvington on sunday quite a few bikes were doing 210+mph. i believe this is the same runway paul waite used with his porsche 911 when he did 243mph on official timing runs.
no reply from paul as yet, but i do know his dad is seriously ill in hospital, i'm sure he will bring the porsche as well next year.
rgds
chris


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## keith (Jun 29, 2001)

*brunters*

hi mike i was talking to the guy that works next door to star in scotland the guy that kicked your arses with his black RS 500, it has 500 bhp with no water inj or big brakes to stop him at the other end of the runway.
in fact his car has STD brakes fitted and we all know how shit they are.his car took the best top speed run of 183 mph not bad for a std car with a good 500 engine fitted.
fast car are doing a bit about it in there mag. you better hope the guy does not fit big brakes before he comes back down to brunters again.
maybe Scotland dont do good in the football but we have fast cars

JUN SKYLINE, AND FORD RS 500         


KEITH


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Weather conditions....*

Keith,
Unfortunately at Brunters, the weather conditions have a BIG effect on speed. The first time we went, we suffered from a horrendous head wind (which as mentioned earlier in this post, was so severe that an RST that did a run a few months previously with 165bhp @ wheels - where it did 149.9 in the ideal conditions of that day, then went back with an extra 30bhp @ wheels and only did 150.2 due to the conditions being against top speed runs when we were there in Feb). Despite the head wind I still did 180.6..... The next time we went, the air was perfectly still, but the ambient temp was 30°C! This meant that the ACTs went through the roof giving horrendous ignition retard and a loss of over 40bhp @ wheels. This meant that we had to carry out some mental late braking antics just to get 180.9 and 182.7mph respectively.....

Obviously when the cars are all there together on the same day, at the same time and in the same conditions, no-one can moan, as we are all then in the same boat. Incidentally, I had another 1000 revs left, but just no room - I was pulling under 7000 at 180.9....

Will this Scottish car be available to join in with the rest of us?


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## redback911 (Jul 2, 2001)

Hiya Guy,

Sorry for the delay I am only just catching up with the threads.

The Mercedes test track in Germany is AWESOME, and compared to the UK very cheap. The downside is that it is northern Germany and about 8 hours from Calais. 

The High Speed Oval is 12,2 km, 4 / 5 lane track, high banked curves up to 49,7° with a neutral steer speed of 250 km/h so you can easily reach max speed on the strights.

http://www.atp-papenburg.de/englisch/index.html

It does also offer plenty of other driving situations as well.

Wet Handling
High-Speed Oval
Dry Handling (4,1 km reproduction Hockenheim)
High Speed Skid

So we could easily combine a day or two of fun.

/Dan


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## chris200+ (Nov 21, 2001)

i think the alconbury runway would be fine for a standing 1/4 and 1/2 mile, then finishing at 1.2miles. we will have to accept its not going to be genuine top speed. further details expected this/next week on this one as to cost. plenty of other groups now signed up to get their 10 top cars together!

as for elvington. i can get the full info on the total runway length and braking area for you all. its certainly as long as brunters. similar surface, but no parked cars, and should be more suitable. we are looking around 29th september for this venue, maybe another date earlier in year as well. 
i will get back to you in time with this one also.
bye for now
chris mann


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*OH YES*

Good decision Guy, Henry and Alan.

Proper 'Top Speed running' looks like it could be GAME ON :smokin: . Superb. And we get to have a w/end away as well. 

Don't come much better than this guys.

glen

ps. Nice one Dan for the info. I know you mentioned it to me sometime ago but had a bit of short term memory loss as I thought it was the VW track.


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## jamie m (Jul 24, 2001)

Welcome back Glen.

I see not even Jet Lag can stop you "Arriving and Departing"  

Regarding this thread: I watched it un-fold and thought that Guy was quite gallant in trying to arrange a response to the challenge, however, Top Speed is Top Speed. It is not: "How fast can I get away with before I have to stand on the brakes to avoid being a danger to myself and anyone else's possessions" Therefore Guy, I back you 100%.

NOW, Lets talk TOP SPEED the manufactures way. When a Manufacturer like Porche measures Top Speed they take an average over 2km after (and I stress after) winding the car up. This is why road tester's generally record quicker performance figures than quoted in the brochures.

Therefore I propose: 
Going to the Mercedes test track with independant time recorders and winding up the Cosworths and the Skylines on the Bowl and then taking the average Top Speed over 2km. In all this will mean holding the cars at top speed for about 4 mins!! (A bit different from a quick blast down Bruntingthorpe followed by standing on the brakes) I beleive we'll see alot of Cosworths going pop and recording lower top speeds as opposed to the weight and durability winning the day for the Skylines. At a track like Mercedes I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

I would like to hear the Cosworth clubs response. (if any)

Regards


Jamie.

PS: This type of test will prove that 1 Turbo and 4 cylinders will not provail over 6 cylinders and two turbos (no offence Glen, you big singleton you!!)


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Offence*

No offence taken Jamie.

Yeah I think the way that Henry and Guy have looked at the Bruntingthorpe issues is very 'honorable' (see I did learn Japanese) and for us to respect their points is also good as we are a club/group and should therefore stand by members decisions if they are based on fact.

I have always voiced my opinion that Top Speed MUST be as it says and we should follow this through. Like we have said our cars are high speed road cars. Built to do many many thousands of miles not specific to one thing. Therefore the Germany trip is a must and the Cossie boys will I am sure rise to the challenge. Let's face it they threw down the gauntlet, so we pick the spot :smokin: .

Over to you Mike. And don't give us any logistics excuses  .

glen


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## Mike Rainbird (Nov 12, 2001)

*Combined trip?*

On reflection, this is probably the best decision, as with added competition it would be a case of "who could brake the latest" and this would inevitably lead to the possiblity of a tragedy occurring.

In view of this, there is a whole crowd of us going to the 'Ring at Easter (Scooby's and Cossies etc), so perhaps this could be the opportunity for any of you to tag along as well (the'Ring is amazing) and then take in a top speed thing on the way back (as you don't want to do it before in case of any engine failures....), as we would already be in Germany anyway?

Your views?
Best regards


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Europe Trip*

Sounds good Mike.

I'll get in touch with Dan (redback911) and get some logistics worked out. 

Easter time sounds good as a few of our cars will be taking a bit of time to get put together over the winter.

See Ya.

glen


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## jamie m (Jul 24, 2001)

*glad we see it the same way*

Hi Mike,

I'm glad you see it the same way and that some maturity has come back into this thread.

Owning any car with 500 plus bhp is a responsibility that we should not take for granted. As I am sure you are aware going for the last of the late braker's in a competative environment could lead to a tragedy which none of us want on our consience for the rest of our live's.

I think the GTR Register and the RS owners / Cossie club plus the Scooby club should set an example to the Max Power brigade in how to do things with mutual respect for each others choice of motor car and in relative safety. All the cars mentioned are famous within their own time slot in history for various different things. I remember driving an RS 500 some years ago and thought it was great.

We will be much stronger as a team in organising these events if we keep the rivalry friendly and work together.

I think if we booked the Merc test track for a day and got some instructors avaliable to show the inexperienced guys how to drive a banked circuit at over 180 mph it would be a great day out that I dare say many a magazine would like to cover. Maybe we could get Top Gear to cover it and call it "The Top Gear Top speed challenge"?

If we work together the possibility are endless, after all I think that most of the members of the gtr register are proffessional business people with familys who would like things done properly and with the right spirit.

Perhaps Guy and some of us should meet with you to discuss??

Kind regards


Jamie Martin.


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*VW test track...*

I used to live in the Wolfsburg vacinity whilst working in sales in germany and I know there is the most awesome test track there at the VW facility in the wolfsburg area.
This is the facilty where Mclaren F1 set the all time world speed record for a production car a few years back (247 MPH over the distance)
As far as I know this is an 8 km strip that is maintained to the highest level and used regularly by VW. It has 2 straights and 2 huge bends which are quite shallow which equates to a huge oval and allow for a max run to be acheievd at either straight, plus a bit of cooling down as well!!. 
This will also reduce the need for huge amounts of braking under high speed which is ALWAYS a worry regardless of which kit you have. Physics has a funny way at high velocity.
So this maybe a good suggestion as it is a little easier to reach than the Mercedes track (in deepest Stuttgart) and it is a great run up the newly constructed A2. (max runs can be achieved now between the Ruhr area and Hannover. I think I topped out at 147 in a weasy Mondeo Turbo Diesel. Yes I know...) 
As for getting access that would be the question. If you could involve a magazine or TV then this may help to access the facility.
Let me know if I can hep as my german is fluent and I have some good friends out there to stay with...I do also have a very high level contacts within VW Procurement through sales activity, who may be able to swing sth, if we give him the solution deal he wants!!
  
Just a thought, Nick.


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## redback911 (Jul 2, 2001)

*Mercedes Track*

Hiya,

Their is no limit on the top speed run and the site is open 24hr a day, 7 days a week 365 days a year! The downsides are:

1. No cameras allowed as their are usually prototypes around. We may be able to get around this if we want to take some shots on the skid pan.

2. We need to book the specific test courses in advance and sometimes it can be busy but their are certain days of the week that are a lot less busy then others I think Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun

3. It can only be booked by a registered company with ties to the facility. This should not be a problem as Dirk Schoysman can do this for us using his company

I will start getting so prices together.

/Dan


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## Rupert (Jun 28, 2001)

*When can we go???*

Just a short note to day that I will be more than happy to go to Germany. Just let me know the date and the price a little in advance and I’ll be there. I also do believe that we should tie in a visit to the ring. Any time after the end of January and I’m free. I'll watch this thread patently...

Regards,

Rupert


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## TOKYO (Jun 28, 2001)

*Good stuff*

Nice one Dan :smokin: .

See if you can get more details on the VW track yeah Nick  .

glen


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2001)

*Insider*

Being that I work in the trade, (Automotive D & E), and have worked for VW, 
I know quite a few of the engineers and test engineers out there.

I too will ask about, as I may get better results than an outsider. 

No offence Nick, will can do a two pronged attack on this.

I'll let you know what I find out.


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## Smootster73 (Oct 23, 2001)

*Go for it Scott,*

I only have friends out there and have been to VW as an outsider so you may get better response than me.
Give it a go and keep us posted. I will try from my end.
Nick


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## redback911 (Jul 2, 2001)

*Mercedes Proving Ground*

Glen, Guy et All,

Here is the information for Papenburg. 

Official rates are :

Per car and per hour, exclusive VAT (17%).
-Wet track: 80 Pounds
-Dry track (Hockenheim): 35 Pounds
-Dynamic pad: 65 Pounds
-Oval course : 24 Pounds
-Fixed fee to enter proving ground per car : 41 Pounds

We could get a 20% discount if we went in the Winter time, I.E up to March is officially Winter I think. 

Also Dirk Schoysman would come along and spend the day with us. Dirk also mentioned that we could get the Folembray track in Northern France for around 3,000. If we could get 15 cars it works out at 200 UK per person, and NO I WOULD NOT CHARGE FOR PASSENGERS or for EXTRA DRIVERS!



www.circuit-de-folembray.com

It would be worth coming just to be in the car with Dirk around the Wet Handling track. I have done this a few times and it is AWESOME!

/Dan


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## redback911 (Jul 2, 2001)

*Opps*

I meant to say that when you enter each sector the timer starts to tick down and when you leave it stops, so you do not need to spend a whole hour on say the Oval course, you could do 3 sets of 20Mins Etc if we paid for an hour...


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