# Turbo S - the GTR spanker..!



## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

Erm, I think this is what you call a spanking!!! 
What's fastest? - Autocar


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## anilj (Jan 30, 2010)

bazza_g said:


> Erm, I think this is what you call a spanking!!!
> What's fastest? - Autocar


The muppet cant drive the GT-R!


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

Very gay start though....


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

David's purple zilla would spank the lot of them. Including the canoe.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

Talk about bogging-down from a standing start :chuckle: Oh dear.

It strikes me that for circa 6K we can tune our R35s to 630bhp with new zorst and Cobb map. For 2.5K you can add a diff. or tranny cooler and 3k add Alcons all-round with Pagid yellows.

So for around 12k on the base price £60K, you can have a car that can stay with these exotica on road or track and has a proper boot.

911 Turbo S costs £116K base = £56K tune for a CBA-R35!
Mercedes SLS costs £158K base = £98K tune!!
Noble M600 costs £200K base = £140K tune !!!
Lexus LFA costs £330K base = £270K tune !!!!

I'm just impressed the GT-R keeps being tested against supercars with super prices.

Agreed. Standard 911 Turbo S vs. standard R35 GT-R = spanking for GT-R! :bawling:

Really, the GT-R should be tested against BMW's M3 (414bhp) & base Porsche 911 Carerra (345bhp) for a fair price comparison.

It is no surprise that cars costing two or three times as much can out-power a standard GT-R.... but not sure they could leave it behind around a track nor do much about a decently fettled example like David's Purple 'Zilla! Good lad! :thumbsup:

P.S. Hmmm... sounds like an idea for a group test to restore GT-R pride ?! Standard, fettled + bring on the supa-kas!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

MY11 here shortly, to save the day:runaway:


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Aerodramatics said:


> Talk about bogging-down from a standing start :chuckle: Oh dear.
> 
> It strikes me that for circa 6K we can tune our R35s to 630bhp with new zorst and Cobb map. For 2.5K you can add a diff. or tranny cooler and 3k add Alcons all-round with Pagid yellows.
> 
> ...


Here we go, sounds like a few GTR V Evo threads :runaway:


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

If I owned a TurboS, SLS, 458 or LFA I would never assume I could pull away from an R35 in the real world like the TurboS does in the vid. Some people will try . . . _"Watch this love, I'll show this Nissan what a real supercar goes like. . . oh b*ll*x, where's he gone? ;p"_ ... I'd expect there's a good chance the GTR wont be a 'standard' car when you attempt to 'rain on its parade' and even a slightly modded R35 would be hard to beat in a straight line let alone through corners. Wonder what percentage of the UK cars have remaps now?

I think it's brilliant that it is still the one to beat and if you read the article in Autocar mag the GTR actually pulls away quicker than the £160k SLS to start with, maybe they didn't bog down as much on that run. That's a terrible start.

I think with my minor mods (Ypipe and custom tune) I could comfortably beat any of the cars in Autocar line-up in a straight line apart from the Noble mind you. But I'd expect a car like the Litchfield car provided to the Renault F1 boss to easily beat the Noble over a 1km dash or any of you guys running over 650bhp. Around a track I reckon a stock R35 would hold it's own against all of these anyway and surely it's more fun around a track than a 1km dash.

If I had £160k to spend on a car then I would either get a GT2-RS or a modded R35 and a Radical SR8LM for the track.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

I expected a much better start from the GTR and then he states " No launch control ". What a muppet. With a decent start there would have been nowt in it .

Also no mention of prices - as usual


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

I've always though Porsches are too common and all look the same but recently I can see why people go down the Porsche route. Must be able to mod a TurboS too . .

I'm starting to warm to the idea of owning one at some stage but not for the next 3 years or so while I enjoy the R35. Interested to see what gets said about an R36 over the next few years and see what the used prices of TurboS's are like compared to an R36.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

Chris956 said:


> I expected a much better start from the GTR and then he states " No launch control ". What a muppet. With a decent start there would have been nowt in it .


What's strange is the article states the GTR has launch control but the Vid he says it doesn't !!

Based on numbers from this forum, a GTR only needs an AP and Y-Pipe to perform as a Turbo S, it got 3.01 to 60 and 11.04 1/4 mile with a 129 trap.


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## Lubo69GTR (Mar 4, 2010)

it's a sad day when you can't get a good start in an auto!


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

3.01 to 60 is rapid. Might need Cobb higher revs launch to get this with custom tune.


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

Lubo69GTR said:


> it's a sad day when you can't get a good start in an auto!


You'd have to try hard to **** up a start that bad


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## ticketmaster123 (Mar 19, 2008)

What was he thinking? Surely they should have filmed it again to make it a fair test! It's like he false started...stopped...then started again! :flame:



R35Bren said:


> You'd have to try hard to **** up a start that bad


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

> Here we go, sounds like a few GTR V Evo threads :runaway:


LOL. 'Tis only a bit of fun for the enthusiasts 

In defence of the Porka, it is sitting in McLaren F1 territory... an amazing achievement for a real road car costing £116K in 2010 money, vs a Maccer @ £540K in 1994 money (& £810K in 2010 money historic-inflation-calculator)

Autocar F1 Review
Auto 911 Turbo S Review
Autcar R35 GT-R Review

The 911 Turbo S is some car indeed. :clap: Lest we forget the GT2 RS

(Obviously the GT3 RS is today's Porka of choice for serious track work/fun :thumbsup: Least that's the message I get from the real 911 owners here )


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

ticketmaster123 said:


> What was he thinking? Surely they should have filmed it again to make it a fair test! It's like he false started...stopped...then started again! :flame:


It annoys me when I see things like that and something is not demonstrated to it's full ability. I get the impression from the written article and video and the fact that the TurboS did the fastest 0-60 time ever for Autocar that they wanted to emphasis this ... which might have been visually aided by a slower starting GTR.

I don't think I'd do 3sec flat to 60 (even with a modest 576bhp & 590lb/ft compared to some of you guys) but it would be close (maybe 3.2) and I think by 100 I'd be marginally ahead of the TurboS even without using launch and letting auto do the work with VDC off. From 100 onwards I think I'd be making the front bumper of the Porsche as road rashed as mine. That PDK box must be something else. Would be good to see a TurboS at pod one one of the GTR meets.


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## MNK (Dec 3, 2009)

That Turbo S is pretty awesome... No wonder Nissan are upping the power on the MY11 GTR!


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

will be interesting to see what the MY11 can do; if it has more power and proper launch control.

wonder what they have re-engineered to make it durable?

We shouldn't moan about the Autocar test; OK he starts badly in the GTR but the Porker is a quicker car.


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

Aerodramatics said:


> Agreed. Standard 911 Turbo S vs. standard R35 GT-R = spanking for GT-R! :bawling:


 and thats the point I was making - the start on the GTR was fluffed but I can't get over the Turbo S, its ballistic off the line :clap:


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## emve (May 28, 2008)

ChuckUK said:


> What's strange is the article states the GTR has launch control but the Vid he says it doesn't !!
> 
> Based on numbers from this forum, a GTR only needs an AP and Y-Pipe to perform as a Turbo S, it got 3.01 to 60 and 11.04 1/4 mile with a 129 trap.


What were the results of GT-R and 458 please ? (0-60, 1/4 mile, 0-1000m)


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## dilz87 (Mar 16, 2008)

no L/C? what is he on about? i'm assuming he would have been in a new GT-R with the revised RPM launch and he still didn't use it 

he obviously didn't know how to drive the car

the turbo s hits 60 in around 3.3 provided it's fitted with porsche's PDK system, i'm assuming this one was judging by the uniform acceleration 

if he'd engaged the GT-Rs L/C then there would not have been such a gap, this just made the GT-R look like a joke.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

I think with my minor mods (Ypipe and custom tune) I could comfortably beat any of the cars in Autocar line-up in a straight line apart from the Noble mind you. But I'd expect a car like the Litchfield car provided to the Renault F1 boss to easily beat the Noble over a 1km dash or any of you guys running over 650bhp. Around a track I reckon a stock R35 would hold it's own against all of these anyway and surely it's more fun around a track than a 1km dash.

AGREE

& yes it does hold its own against all of these and more !!!


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## ticketmaster123 (Mar 19, 2008)

I think all the Turbo S come with PDK as standard - although I could be wrong.



dilz87 said:


> the turbo s hits 60 in around 3.3 provided it's fitted with porsche's PDK system, i'm assuming this one was judging by the uniform acceleration


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## dilz87 (Mar 16, 2008)

ticketmaster123 said:


> I think all the Turbo S come with PDK as standard - although I could be wrong.


either way, i dont think it was a far test to be honest.

even with a COBB custom map i think it would be pretty much neck and neck.

presenters like that shouldn't be allowed to drive the car,should have got someone like clarky or plato.


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## Bing (Aug 26, 2010)

@Bazza_g

Do you really believe that a piece of junk Porsche could beat Godzilla?!


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## countvonc (Feb 11, 2009)

dilz87 said:


> presenters like that shouldn't be allowed to drive the car,should have got someone like clarky or plato.


I agree, if they dont know jack sh1t about the car, they shouldn't be driving it, let alone spreading duff info like he is doing.


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## coopersjcw (Oct 25, 2007)

Great machine the Porsche, but the GTR never had a chance without LC.
What a lousy driver.


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

can't beleive they didn't re-film that run.. worse start I've seen in some time..unless they did re film and that was the best he had..


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## lawsy (Feb 25, 2009)

You only have to look at the guys socks and trainers and he has no credibility in my eyes:chairshot:chairshot

Think it was scripted a bit, and you could tell, straight away highlighting no launch control on the GTR, and they wanted to highlight this.

But dont discount the pork, they are a devastatingly quick car. And if I could afford one, tbh the gtr would not get a look in, flame me if you want but its true. :flame:


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

I'd love a 35, but if I had to choose between them...the Porsche would win.


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

GTR every time for me, see so many Porkers everywhere and most folk can't tell one from the other.


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## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

I had a new carrera 4s following me this morning, I wouldnt have batted an eye lid if it wasnt for the OFF white paint work, yuk, he couldnt have just asked for a white one, he had to go for the murky white, you know the one you see on the new minis uke: two words, wishy washy.

Anyways back to the story, all it took was one little dab on the accelerator in fourth to have the porker wincing on the side line, he was right up my arse then he gave up and pulled on to the inside lane as soon as I taped my foot on the accelerator :wavey:

It was one of those moments of effeortless victory, like the feeling of swating a fly thats persisting in anoying you, I get them quite a lot in the GTR.... :flame:


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## MiGTR (Jul 31, 2007)

^ swatting a fly LOL, more like using a Nuke to get a sun tan.


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## bazza_g (Sep 10, 2009)

Bing said:


> @Bazza_g
> 
> Do you really believe that a piece of junk Porsche could beat Godzilla?!


 quite possibly - Car and Driver and timed its 0-62 in 2.91 seconds, whilst RaceLogic's own test with the V-Box did 3.01 and 0-100 in 7.07 seconds.

It doesn't need modding and can do those figures all day long without needing fluid changes and a shock horror can keep its warranty valid 

... but then for £125k you pay for the privilege :thumbsup:

Don't get me wrong, I love my GTR and this its performance is epic but the Turbo S is a missile!


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Zed Ed said:


> will be interesting to see what the MY11 can do; if it has more power and proper launch control.
> We shouldn't moan about the Autocar test; OK he starts badly in the GTR but the Porker is a quicker car.


What is the launch RPM with the current UK market GT-R? LC2 3000? LC3 3300 rpm? 

2009 Nissan GT-R

2009 Nissan GT-R


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

The Turbo S is the faster car by some margin but my granny can launch a car better than that..... just by pushing it with the handbrake off.


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## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Turbo S runs 0-100mph in the 6s as standard.

GTR standard runs in the 8s.

The Turbo LC dumps the clutch at 5000rpm, the GTR dumps at about 3000rpm.

I always found my GTR to be crap off the line to be honest, never enough revs.


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

perhaps nissan will address the gearbox weaknesses in future models. Its a shame they have let a stupid thing like that appear on the finished product. But then it is an amazing bit of kit for the price.


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## firefighter81 (Apr 9, 2004)

GTRSTAR said:


> I had a new carrera 4s following me this morning, I wouldnt have batted an eye lid if it wasnt for the OFF white paint work, yuk, he couldnt have just asked for a white one, he had to go for the murky white, you know the one you see on the new minis uke: two words, wishy washy.
> 
> Anyways back to the story, all it took was one little dab on the accelerator in fourth to have the porker wincing on the side line, he was right up my arse then he gave up and pulled on to the inside lane as soon as I taped my foot on the accelerator :wavey:
> 
> It was one of those moments of effeortless victory, like the feeling of swating a fly thats persisting in anoying you, I get them quite a lot in the GTR.... :flame:


Or perhaps he wasn't racing you?

Or perhaps he was and it was a 4S, not even the Turbo S as is being discussed in this thread. 

Turbo S > GT-R


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

cleethorpes said:


> perhaps nissan will address the gearbox weaknesses in future models. Its a shame they have let a stupid thing like that appear on the finished product. But then it is an amazing bit of kit for the price.


There are known issues, but I wouldn't really call them weaknesses. 

The biggest issue is a fairly new gearbox, with a policy of replacement over repair. Its not only a gearbox, its a gearbox, a clutch, a transfercase, and rear end, all in a single unit. If you needed to replace the clutch on your "other car" and had to replace all those items at the same time, it would be expensive, and really the incorrect way to do it. 

How to Fix the Nissan GT-R Transmission | 2009 Nissan GT-R

Nissan in Japan, has now started to offer transmission service alone. From what I have read, they are thinking of offering the service in other markets. It doesn't really matter, as people have been working on the transmission for several years now. 

R35 GT-R Transmission and Clutch Upgrades | 2009 Nissan GT-R


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## GTR ally (May 19, 2008)

bazza_g said:


> quite possibly - Car and Driver and timed its 0-62 in 2.91 seconds, whilst RaceLogic's own test with the V-Box did 3.01 and 0-100 in 7.07 seconds.
> 
> It doesn't need modding and can do those figures all day long without needing fluid changes and a shock horror can keep its warranty valid
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same thing, no modding and no warranty issues, as you say you pay for that. 

My local Porsche dealer let me have the new 2010 turbo with sports chrono and PDK for the afternoon a while back and I was very impressed. This was the same as the Turbo S but without the carbon brakes that come stock on the Turbo S.
The salesmen even took me out first to show me how to use the launch control. It was awesome

I always find it funny when people jump in with all the possible mods for any car that can make it faster than any stock car. Surely the aim is to compare stock for stock and not mods. I for one would feel more confident with a Turbo S unmodded than a modded GTR.

Come to think of it, as I've just had a new gearbox fitted to a stock car with no mods, I'd feel happier with it than a stock GTR at the moment.

I need to get my confidence back in my car, hopefully Nissan will help on that front.

The GTR may be an awesome car, it just hasn't proven this to me yet.


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## thistle (Oct 27, 2007)

Porsche are no panacea for reliability either. I hear there have been PDK failures too. I do think the PDK design is superior with separate lubrication for clutches and gears though.

All my tuned turbo cars except the GTR so far have broken gears, often on standard clutches, yet I'm mechanically very sympathetic, just run too much torque. Solenoid failures in stock GTRs are disappointing though.

Bet the 997.2 turbo tunes well, wonder if it would do 0-100 in under 6?


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## lawsy (Feb 25, 2009)

thistle said:


> Porsche are no panacea for reliability either. I hear there have been PDK failures too. I do think the PDK design is superior with separate lubrication for clutches and gears though.
> 
> All my tuned turbo cars except the GTR so far have broken gears, often on standard clutches, yet I'm mechanically very sympathetic, just run too much torque. Solenoid failures in stock GTRs are disappointing though.
> 
> Bet the 997.2 turbo tunes well, wonder if it would do 0-100 in under 6?


I think it might be possible. Certainly a big scope for tunability on the 997 turbo S.

I too, know personally of people with the new PDK boxes throwing wobblies on track, missing gears, not able to get reverse when back in pits. All sorts itself out after a cool down. 

I had a 996 turbo with mild tune, it was awesome, but the auto box was too slushy for track work. The PDK box is an awesome step up for porsche. 

My turbo would reach 170-175 on the back straight on the nurburgring and 160mph on the back straight at Spa. No slouch, thats for sure, I could imagine the new turbo S to smash them figures.


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## GTR ally (May 19, 2008)

Although I did like the PDK, which was much smoother than the GTR setup, I think I'd prefer something like a GT3 than the Turbo. Less power I know but more suited to some track work and with the manual less prone to issues. 
They have stopped makin the GT3 now and no replacement till 2012. I for one will be checking out the replacement as well as seeing what Nissan come up with.


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

GTR ally said:


> I always find it funny when people jump in with all the possible mods for any car that can make it faster than any stock car. Surely the aim is to compare stock for stock and not mods. I for one would feel more confident with a Turbo S unmodded than a modded GTR.
> 
> .


Turbo is twice as exspensive as GTR. So thats your fair comparing then? :chairshot
Is 911 Turbo (S or no S) twice the car then? No, its not.

If you wanna compare GTR against some Porsche then you have to pick 911 4S.
Which is more bang for the buck? Which one would you choose?


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## Godspd (Dec 12, 2001)

Let's not kid our selves, the GTR was bench marked against the Turbo and it IS a direct rival. 

The Turbo is SIMPLY faster (in a straight line).

Having said that, things might all change next year! :thumbsup:


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

There's a difference between the Turbo and the Turbo S.

I think the 2011 GT-R will at least match the Turbo in a straight line, but probably not the S which is not the benchmark.

But straight line is the least of the GT-R's abilities as we all know.
The current GT-R has been rated much higher than the latest Turbo by loads of car mags, and is quicker around most circuits.

Ultimately, there is only so much Porsche can do about the wrong position of the engine in the 911. Great for acceleration, not so great for entry and mid-corner speed.


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## GTR ally (May 19, 2008)

Kurgan said:


> Turbo is twice as exspensive as GTR. So thats your fair comparing then? :chairshot
> Is 911 Turbo (S or no S) twice the car then? No, its not.
> 
> If you wanna compare GTR against some Porsche then you have to pick 911 4S.
> Which is more bang for the buck? Which one would you choose?


To answer that question. I bought the GTR 

My issue is more my ownership experience has not been good so far so don't buy into all the hype. I love my car and waited 18 months for it, having in fail with less than 4k kinda takes the shine off.


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## firefighter81 (Apr 9, 2004)

Kurgan said:


> Turbo is twice as exspensive as GTR. So thats your fair comparing then? :chairshot
> Is 911 Turbo (S or no S) twice the car then? No, its not.
> 
> If you wanna compare GTR against some Porsche then you have to pick 911 4S.
> Which is more bang for the buck? Which one would you choose?


You can't compare price though, you compare cars to other similar cars.

You compare a cars with similar performance, not with similar price. Some people have more money to spend to purchase their performance cars. I've been in both a 997 Turbo and a R35 GT-R, and everything just felt better in the Porsche. Some people have the extra money to spend on the Porsche, if I had the extra money, I would have the Turbo S or Turbo over the R35. I like the R35, I really do, but I would save the extra money to buy a 997 Turbo.

Just like comparing a Hyundai Genesis to a Mercedes E-class, of course the Benz is more expensive, but you compare them with each other because they are both in the same class of car.


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

firefighter81 said:


> You can't compare price though, you compare cars to other similar cars.
> 
> You compare a cars with similar performance, not with similar price. .


That says it all. Nothing to add to that brilliant logic uke:

I would have bought 911 Turbo S too but it costs 398609 € :runaway:

Yes, thats 400 k €. Of course its only fair to compare it against 140k € GTR. :shy:

Those are prices in Finland if someone is wondering.


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## firefighter81 (Apr 9, 2004)

A 911 Turbo S is as close to a daily driver exotic as you can get. There is a reason it costs much more.

But you still should only compare cars that are similar in performance.

The GT-R is a great car, and for the price, yes, it will beat just about any car that costs the same. But that doesn't mean you only compare it against cars that are the same price. You should be flattered that it's being compared against a supercar that in places besides Finland, costs nearly double what the GT-R costs.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

I was just in the market for a GTR.

Didn't do any comparisons


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## Jacey Boy (Apr 24, 2005)

Remap??:runaway:


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## firefighter81 (Apr 9, 2004)

Jacey Boy said:


> Remap??:runaway:


Remapping the 911 brings quite good gains as well.


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## gp900bj (Nov 24, 2008)

With an ideal launch you will get no better than a 3.5 sec to 60 in a new generation GT-R. With someone who doesn't know how, it's more like consistent 4.0 secs to 60.

The new generation of PDK cars are extremely consistent in producing the fastest 0-60 times possible. The turbo S will consistently return a 3 flat every time. And it will go on to run sub 11.0 quarters vs the GT-R's high 11.

This is a product of the inherently better engineering in the PDK. Nissan outsourced almost all of it's design to various mobs around the world to save costs. The benefit is a more competitive pricetag, the downside is a less coherent design. e.g. An underbody design which doesn't satisfactorily evacuate the heat generated by the gearbox.

Obviuously all of these things must be qualified by the price factor so the GT-R is still a damned good performer in a straight line (and some orders of magnitude better at the track, even with it's speed handicap).

The good news is the 2011 will go a long way to addressing these issues.


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## C2 VXT (Feb 28, 2009)

Anyone have any data for a stage 2 R35 over the standing kilometre?


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

tyndago said:


> How to Fix the Nissan GT-R Transmission | 2009 Nissan GT-R


Option 7 - build a better transmission.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

firefighter81 said:


> Remapping the 911 brings quite good gains as well.


Apparently a re-flashed 997.2 will hit 0-300 as quickly as the new GT2 RS.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

R33_GTS-t said:


> Option 7 - build a better transmission.


The trans is by Borg Warner. They know how to build a trans, its just a matter of one they build that can handle 1000 hp, comes with a 1.5 million dollar vehicle.

Cost vs service, you can buy a whole lotta GR6 at 20k each for a one point five million dollars.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

tyndago said:


> The trans is by Borg Warner. They know how to build a trans, its just a matter of one they build that can handle 1000 hp, comes with a 1.5 million dollar vehicle.


Which one is that?

To be fair the Porsche one isn't having as much problems. Hopefully the one in the 2012 model will be far better.


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

R33_GTS-t said:


> Which one is that?


Veyron (although Ricardo developed the metal bits).


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Philip said:


> Veyron (although Ricardo developed the metal bits).


That's what I thought. I'd have said that was a Ricardo box.


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## juggers (Sep 2, 2010)

I would have a 997 turbo gen 2 (not the s) any day of the week, The gen 2 is quicker then the GTR and with a reflash and exhaust is as quick as the gt2 rs ,but has four wheel drive tracktion!


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## juggers (Sep 2, 2010)

David.Yu said:


> There's a difference between the Turbo and the Turbo S.
> 
> I think the 2011 GT-R will at least match the Turbo in a straight line, but probably not the S which is not the benchmark.
> 
> ...


Please can you give em a link to these reviews because every review i've seen the GTR gets spanked by the new gen 2. 

Immy


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## ChuckUK (Jan 1, 2009)

There aren't any yet as it's not out yet, but as the original GTR was faster than the original 997 it's fair to the say the revised one will be the same.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

juggers said:


> Please can you give em a link to these reviews because every review i've seen the GTR gets spanked by the new gen 2.
> 
> Immy


AutoBuild, Auto Motor Und Sport, Autocar, Autozeitung, Evo. 3 out of 4 German mags in total found the GTR to be slightly quicker on track. The GTR still laps quicker. That's fact.

Add that Italian mag too - Quatrroroute:

Quattroruote Italy


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## peterpeter (Feb 24, 2008)

juggers said:


> Please can you give em a link to these reviews because every review i've seen the GTR gets spanked by the new gen 2.
> 
> Immy




can you show me all the reviews where the gtr get spanked by the Gen 2 turbo other than that pathetic straight line review? Ive not seen and lapping tests yet?


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## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

R33_GTS-t said:


> AutoBuild, Auto Motor Und Sport, Autocar, Autozeitung, Evo. 3 out of 4 German mags in total found the GTR to be slightly quicker on track. The GTR still laps quicker. That's fact.
> 
> Add that Italian mag too - Quatrroroute:
> 
> Quattroruote Italy


Nice find. That has much higher production values than most magazines' video efforts.

The Superleggera and even more impressively, the 458 Italia are stupendously fast. The 458 does it with rear wheel drive only and non-R compound tyres. Awesome.


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## gp900bj (Nov 24, 2008)

tyndago said:


> The trans is by Borg Warner. They know how to build a trans, its just a matter of one they build that can handle 1000 hp, comes with a 1.5 million dollar vehicle.
> 
> Cost vs service, you can buy a whole lotta GR6 at 20k each for a one point five million dollars.


Actually the transmission was mostly designed by a little known (but still pretty impressive) engineering design house called NTC Powertrain, which entered into a subsidiary relationship with Borg Warner. The other entity involved in the GR6 design was Aichi.

In fact NTC designed and patented all of the Dualtronic technology that BW now claims as it's own. So the entire DSG program offered by BW is a product of NTC's development.

What is interesting is that NTC has since ended it's subsidiary relationship with BW and is likely to be purchased by AVL in the near future.

Which makes me wonder who will be engineering any future changes to the GR6?


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

juggers said:


> Please can you give em a link to these reviews because every review i've seen the GTR gets spanked by the new gen 2.
> 
> Immy


Autocar and Evo both put GTR ahead of Gen 2 Turbo and R8 V10...not just on value for money, but overall speed and fun to drive etc.

When I get impure thoughts about getting a Gen 2 Turbo or an R8 V10 I just refer back to the article in Evo and the impure thoughts go away (that and driving the GTR!).

Had a Gen 1 Turbo and I know the Gen 2 is much better but will still be dull compared to the GTR...also drove the R8 V10 the other day...good car but felt very dull compared to the GTR


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## donnynsc (Mar 13, 2010)

peterpeter said:


> can you show me all the reviews where the gtr get spanked by the Gen 2 turbo other than that pathetic straight line review? Ive not seen and lapping tests yet?


+1 :lamer:


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

I was at Santa Pod 'run what ya brung' Saturday and met a guy with the Gen2 turbo with sport chrono pack and PDK box. Top bloke. He was running 11.3's and 11.4's the same as me fairly consistently but was getting a bit annoyed as he'd run 11 flat at a previous event not sure what terminal speed. Must have been the hot conditions, might have been better to wait for the evening air. I managed to get a slot next to him for a race after chatting for a few hours.

I'm running 576bhp and 590 lb/ft, our reaction times were pretty much identical but he pulled out about 5m on me at launch (that PDK box was much better on launch!) and it pretty much stayed about 5m or a car length until we crossed the line. To be fair it was my worst run of the day but hats off to Porsche, it's a real gem. Such a quick starter, I reckon over 1km I would have won with the extra BHP and it would be even more interesting around the track as per the above posts.

If I was in a standard R35 I would have been ruined completely. He reckons he beat an R8 V10 but about 50m at the last event.


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

Did you see his 60ft times? Sounds like it should be good.

But 11.3, 11.4 is the time you get in a St2 tune only GT-R with a bad launch. With a good launch you get a 11.0 - 11.1



Rich


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## GTRok (Apr 3, 2008)

No doubts in my mind...pure-bred GTR everytime, even if it were closer too turbo money! Owned 911,s before and yes they are excellent, but far too many variants making them a very familiar sight on UK roads now.
Also the fact that Porsche are making 60K + profit on each turbo, sticks in my throat a bit....


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## juggers (Sep 2, 2010)

Ok ok i have to come out with this spiel to justfy my next purchase which is going to be a 997 turbo gen 2. I am also going to get a GTR for trackdays ,but am just concerned about the issues with the tranny. The servicing and maintanance costs are silly the turbo wins there hands down we can all agree on that £500 every 15000 miles. 

These are my options GT2 RS .LP560-4 SUPERLEGGRA and i know i'll be to afriad to track these babys or buy a 997 turbo gen 2 cab for Monday to Friday and GTR for weekends and trackdays. What would you guys do.


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

Well Juggers i ,almost, envy you. Such a problem you got there 

I am starting to repeat myself, but lets say this once again.
WR35CC GR6 GEAR FASTENER SYSTEM
WR35CCL GR6 CLUTCH RETAINING CLIPS
WR35TC GTR GR6 TRANSMISSION INTERCOOLER

Above are Willall parts, and get their tranny oil too of course.
Then all your tranny problems are fixed, i am confident saying that.
Getting those fitted myself right now as i write this.

Add Exhaust and Cobb AP with custom tune and you are already kicking ass like nobody else. 
If you want, add intakes and injectors, they are not exspensive and money seem to be less of a problem to you :thumbsup:
Dont fit downpipes as noise level can be an issue to you, and this will be your track weapon so why risk it.

With that set up you will be able to beat ALL porsches, including GT2. Atlest i did already.
Not sure about supperleggera, but someone else might be able to give more info about that one.

What ever you choose to do, i dont think you can go too much wrong.

Good luck, mate!


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

Rich-GT said:


> Did you see his 60ft times? Sounds like it should be good.
> 
> But 11.3, 11.4 is the time you get in a St2 tune only GT-R with a bad launch. With a good launch you get a 11.0 - 11.1
> 
> Rich


I'll find out his 60ft time for you later, my quickest 60ft was 1.93 but I only managed 2.02 against the Porsche & that's RR(vdc off) with launch engaged, 22 miles of Vpower left and my fastest terminal speed of the day was done without launch. Would be better if it launched from higher revs like the originals.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

Does the rear engined lay-out of the Porsche not suit straight line stuff? Whenever I see the GT2 (class) cars in the rain they can visibly get on the power earlier out of corner that the other GT2s. I always assumed that this was down to the engine config.


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## firefighter81 (Apr 9, 2004)

Kurgan said:


> With that set up you will be able to beat ALL porsches, including GT2. Atlest i did already.
> Not sure about supperleggera, but someone else might be able to give more info about that one.
> 
> What ever you choose to do, i dont think you can go too much wrong.
> ...


This is a useless argument, because you do the same mods to the Turbo S, and you are back at square one. There are just as many mods available for the Porsche as the GTR.


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

firefighter81 said:


> This is a useless argument, because you do the same mods to the Turbo S, and you are back at square one. There are just as many mods available for the Porsche as the GTR.


Well done again with logic. 

The guy is already buying Porsche Turbo, he asked for opinion about a track car, maybe GTR or Gallardo etc.

So with your endless Porsche loving logic he should get a Porsche as daily driver and a same car as a track car. OMFG, lady. I dont easily get frustrated but with you this is getting little old. 
I suggest you either read the whole thread AND understand what been said OR you move to some Porsche forum as all you can say here is how great 911 is over GTR.

It might well be, but this aint the point here. Jeesus! 
I need to remind myself that this again just an internet forum, and an anonymous one where all fairies can bring their own reality...:runaway:


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

R35Bren said:


> I'll find out his 60ft time for you later, my quickest 60ft was 1.93 but I only managed 2.02 against the Porsche & that's RR(vdc off) with launch engaged, 22 miles of Vpower left and my fastest terminal speed of the day was done without launch. Would be better if it launched from higher revs like the originals.



Fastest terminals will usually come with a bad launch / slower run.

With a good launch then a 1.75 - 1.8 60ft is possible and that will then give you a very low 11 sec run. I can only do this with the double push on the accelerator to push the revs up a bit higher.

Hopefully when the new TCM map is complete we will get a few more revs and less of a lag / bog down and a ST2 tune car will get into the high 10's. 


Rich


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## firefighter81 (Apr 9, 2004)

Kurgan said:


> Well done again with logic.
> 
> The guy is already buying Porsche Turbo, he asked for opinion about a track car, maybe GTR or Gallardo etc.
> 
> ...


You are completely clueless. It's not even worth arguing with you.


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

bazza.. bet you're glad you started this thread.. :thumbsup:


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

Rich-GT said:


> Fastest terminals will usually come with a bad launch / slower run.
> 
> With a good launch then a 1.75 - 1.8 60ft is possible and that will then give you a very low 11 sec run. I can only do this with the double push on the accelerator to push the revs up a bit higher.
> 
> ...


He ran an 11.3006 @ 124.11 with a 1.8542 60ft and half a tank of fuel plus it was the cabriolet so a fair bit heavier than the coupe. That terminal speed is slower than my fastest terminal speed of the day. 

Says he ran 11 flat the last time he was there which is quick. Nice car and the interior is much better quality than the R35 but I'm not sure it's twice as nice, feels very low down and there's much more headroom for tall chaps like myself but less room in the back, the seats are bolt up-right and much less boot space. 

Hats off to the guy he has already taken it to various track days and Pod a few times and I'm glad he raced me. Would have been nice to pip him at the line but I'm happy with my performance and at 1/8 mile and 1000ft my speed was clocked higher than his so I was starting to gain just got a crap get away, so much lag before power came in compared to him and 1/4 mile wasnt long enough to reel him in I would have needed another 1/4 mile me thinks. Not sure I could do 11 flat though.

What's this double accelerator push you speak of?


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

Well nothing special about a 1.85 60ft, so must look quicker than it is, or more likely it's just that auful couiple of tenths when the GT-R does nothing, before all hell breaks loose.

The double hit on the accelerator is exactly that.

Foot on the brake, hammer the gas to the floor, immediatly off the gas and floor it again, and hopefully you get another 500 - 1000 RPM and off you go..

Of course it's no good for racing as the other guy is half way down the track, but for the moment it's the only way to get the best times.

Hopefully we will soon get the TCM flash with a LC1 style launch and the 911 will just be a blur in the rear view mirror. 


Rich


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Rich-GT said:


> Foot on the brake, hammer the gas to the floor, immediatly off the gas and floor it again, and hopefully you get another 500 - 1000 RPM and off you go..
> Hopefully we will soon get the TCM flash with a LC1 style launch and the 911 will just be a blur in the rear view mirror. Rich


Does your car have LC2 or LC3? LC3 comes up to 3300 rpms pretty quickly with VDC in R mode. LC2 it takes a while to come up to 3000 rpms.


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## juggers (Sep 2, 2010)

Kurgan said:


> Well Juggers i ,almost, envy you. Such a problem you got there
> 
> I am starting to repeat myself, but lets say this once again.
> WR35CC GR6 GEAR FASTENER SYSTEM
> ...


Thanks for the info its much appreciated. Where can i have these mods carried out and what sort of money does it cost?


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## juggers (Sep 2, 2010)

tyndago said:


> Does your car have LC2 or LC3? LC3 comes up to 3300 rpms pretty quickly with VDC in R mode. LC2 it takes a while to come up to 3000 rpms.


Whats LC1 2 and 3? is it launch control modes?


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

juggers said:


> Thanks for the info its much appreciated. Where can i have these mods carried out and what sort of money does it cost?


In the North West, you could try Car Planet Racing, who discuss their transmission upgrades here:

CPR Tranny Upgrades

also Rod Bell Motorsport in Mawdesley, near Eccleston near Chorley/Preston could probably fit the parts you want. 

Don't know if other Northwest traders would be up for these kinds of rebuild mods nor what's on offer around the UK. Of course, Middlehursts might be willing to assist, but are pushing the NISMO only tune line as far as I can tell and no other aftermarkets, apart from pads and discs. Happy to be corrected on this one, just an appearances observation from me, I might have the wrong end of the stick, as with the R34s and before, MH engineers would pretty much do anything for any customer requirement.

Sumo Power in Sussex might well tackle this type of job as might Litchfield's in Tewkesbury. Enquire within I'd suggest.

Dunno if any UK power monsters have already gone down this route and discussed their mods? Not noticed owt on the tuning section meself, but not always paying attention when not looking to do it myself just yet.

Good luck in finding a tuning outfit to suit! :thumbsup:


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

Rich-GT said:


> Well nothing special about a 1.85 60ft, so must look quicker than it is, or more likely it's just that auful couiple of tenths when the GT-R does nothing, before all hell breaks loose.
> 
> Rich


Think that's what happened, he seemed to shoot off even though I'd already let go of the brake what seemed like an eternity before and I was left trying to claw it back. For a standard car the Porsche is quick but it's impressive that £1k worth of mods to a £60k R35 makes them comparable. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the new Turbo on some track days but in response to the original thread, from a stand still, in a straight line a standard R35 would get spanked by a considerable margin. I think a standard R35 will keep up with the gen2 Porsche quite comfortably on a circuit.

On a lighter note there were a couple of young lads there that had built themselves a stripped out 70/80's VW beetle powered solely by electric. They asked to race so I obliged and got a massive shock when they pulled out about 20m on me from the start! I soon shot past to win by about 50m but they must have been hitting 60 in about 2.5 seconds, what a brilliant project. Completely silent apart from tyre squeal! Fastest milk float in the west!


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

tyndago said:


> Does your car have LC2 or LC3? LC3 comes up to 3300 rpms pretty quickly with VDC in R mode. LC2 it takes a while to come up to 3000 rpms.


LC2 which I thought all the UK cars have? Which cars have LC3 and how does it perform in comparison? It's not just how many revs, but what happens to them when you come off the brake.


Rich


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## juggers (Sep 2, 2010)

Agh right so there is an issue with the tranny. The 997 turbo does'nt have these sort of probs it was something i was considering. Buying a hig mileage coupe and going the whole hog on her.


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Essai GT : Nissan GT-R vs Porsche 911 Turbo - NISSAN - Automoto.fr


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## w8pmc (Sep 16, 2010)

The fact the GT-R is punching in a price category that's always at least double & often treble the cost of the GT-R is praise indeed.


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## MYA BURNS (Jul 18, 2008)

look ? the gtr pound £ for pound is the best out there end of story .


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