# JCR Carbon Fibre Shift Paddles - Available for Pre-Order NOW!



## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Ok, so the time has finally come!

The JCR Carbon Fibre Shift Paddles are now available for pre-order with the first run ready to ship in 2 weeks time!!

*Concept*

From initial concept through to the first CAD drawing, this project has thrown up many unique challenges. 



The goal was simple, to create a set of direct replacement Carbon Fibre Shift Paddles with the added benefit of not only beautifully hand crafted carbon fibre but also increased functionality through modified geometry and extended paddle lengths. Allowing the driving enthusiast to change gear while maintaining two hands on the steering wheel.

*Production*

We decided to go the extra mile and have Carbon Fibre moulds produced for the production paddles. This ensures absolute accuracy every time, and a beautiful surface finish.



We are using the highest quality mix of T800s and UD (unidirectional) pre-preg Carbon Fibre for the JCR Carbon Fibre Shift Paddles and have spent countless hours with composites engineer’s fine tuning the specific process of Time, Temperature and Pressure (TTP) to yield a superior product.

The final result is a beautifully hand crafted piece. Hand finished and polished to a light shine and then coated with the most advanced chemical sealant for UV protection.











*Pricing*

The JCR Carbon Fibre Shift Paddles will have a retail price of *£700+vat* _(Including free UK delivery)_

Based on the interest during the development phase JCR have pre allocated 20 sets of paddles exclusively for GTROC Forum members and will be offering a group buy opportunity for this first production run.

The offer is as follows:

10 sets - 5% discount £665+vat
20 sets - 15% discount £595+vat

Please feel free to contact us on [email protected] or PM and of course, If you have any questions just ask.

We really hope you like them

Cheers

Jonny


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## SamboGrove (Jun 27, 2010)

Lovely looking product :thumbsup:


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## The Zedhed (Oct 25, 2013)

Very very nice looking & tempting...............
but more than I'd hoped they'd be!


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

The Zedhed said:


> Very very nice looking & tempting...............
> but more than I'd hoped they'd be!



I would love to offer the paddles for less but unfortunately the price reflects the difference between a properly engineered carbon fibre part and a something wrapped with cheap carbon and made to look pretty..

The cloth we're using for example is literally 5 times more expensive than the material you will see on most aftermarket parts.

Hopefully I'll get the opportunity to bring some paddles along with me to events, often just having the part in your hands helps explain why.

In the mean time, I have opened up a group buy opportunity for the first production run exclusively for this forum


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## bobbie (Jan 3, 2013)

I love them but the price is just too steep, I changed mine when I had the RS6 to some nice ally ones, the cost of those were £250 which I thought was expensive but really £700 is way off, but hey that's just my option i'm not rich like some others on hear Lol

Bobby


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## matt4man (Feb 27, 2014)

bobbie said:


> I love them but the price is just too steep, I changed mine when I had the RS6 to some nice ally ones, the cost of those were £250 which I thought was expensive but really £700 is way off, but hey that's just my option i'm not rich like some others on hear Lol
> 
> Bobby


Yeah, I have to agree, I can appreciate the development that has gone into these but could never justify that cost. they are very pretty though


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## Streetie768 (Jan 24, 2014)

Lovely product, but wow a bit to expensive! I paid a lot less for my carbon f430 paddles.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Very nice... But we'll too expensive that's more than gtr tax


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## AnEvoGuy (Aug 17, 2011)

Gotta also agree, look great but £840 is way too much. Wouldn't like to think how much the steering with shift lights will be...


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## GTRNICK (Apr 29, 2005)

I can appreciate the effort it has taken to make these but I think that if this product was to cost around £200 to £300 + VAT you would sell quite a few sets. 

At this cost it's nearly half the price of some tuning mods.


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## DonnyMac (Jun 21, 2012)

Sadly it looks like you didn't MVP during the research phase.

You created the best of the best, but people just want carbon bits for the shiny weave, the 'change gear from lock to lock' function might be a-nice-to-have but could have been done in plastic if it's just for the functionality.

You've clearly manufactured something quite lovely that you can be proud of, there just isn't a market for it.

Why not find out from the chaps here what the buy in price is and manufacture something shiny to that budget with your desired margin built in.

Then you have the MVP and a market.

Looks good BTW.


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## Brad1979 (May 26, 2012)

Problem I see is another trader will buy a set make them on the cheap and people will buy. 
As I stated on another thread I'm more of function over form


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

Have to agree.... and based on this, Im not sure I want to see the prices of your aero packages with wind tunnel testing, etc.


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## Sinth (Sep 26, 2010)

Rather spend that money on power mods


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Have to agree. I think the additional length is the primary motivation and benefit to change, the material is less important. Plastic or aluminium would have been better to get the functionality without the price.

Rather than throwing the design away, why not consider fabricating in another cheaper material, as it seems the carbon is what's driving the sky high price.

Truly, I think you will have a big market for longer paddles if you can get the price below £500.

Great design, but the value proposition simply isn't there...


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Hey Guys,

As I stated from the start, I set out to produce the best product to fit the job. I feel that we have achieved that with great success.

I appreciate the feedback on the pricing and be assured that I have priced these as competitively as possible, in fact, the margins are extremely tight making whole sale next to impossible.

In regards to a trader attempting to copy and produce for less with the same results. That simply will not happen.

This product is not carbon for the bling factor (that's not what JCR is about) it's designed for a purpose and aimed at those who appreciate the true value of a properly engineered component, for this application Carbon Fibre was selected as the best material for the job. I'm pleased to say that on the first day 16 customers around the globe agreed.

JCR was created with a vision to create the ultimate GTR, the JCR Carbon Fibre Shift Paddles are one step closer to that goal.

Cheers

Jonny


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## Voyager (Jul 20, 2012)

lovely paddles but way too steep a price for even the keen amateur owner.

i am interested to know why you don't think they will be copied ?

no doubt a portion of your price needs to go toward your R&D costs as is normal, anyone else taking a look will be able to replicate your basic design much cheaper as they wont have to front the R&D this is the reality facing all manufacturers, unless you can swing patent and then globalize said patent, and have pockets deep enough to defend it, believe me i speak from experience.

if your paddles are £840 then that rear spoiler is going to be eye-watering never mind a shift light steering wheel.

not knocking the effort you have put in and if your happy to sell very limited numbers of a bespoke product, then good luck to you, 
in the immortal words of dragons den "I'm out"


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## DODGY (Oct 28, 2001)

Jonny are these at the point of £595 plus vat yet? 

Graham


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Too expensive full stop, you can word your sales pitch as fancy as you like and I'm not saying that they aren't good quality but come on fella us gtr owners don't eat through the nose.... That's just a ridiculous price


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

DODGY said:


> Jonny are these at the point of £595 plus vat yet?
> 
> Graham



Drop me a mail to [email protected] Graham


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Takamo said:


> Too expensive full stop, you can word your sales pitch as fancy as you like and I'm not saying that they aren't good quality but come on fella us gtr owners don't eat through the nose.... That's just a ridiculous price


Read thier project thread and see the R&D and testing that have gone into these. 

Like any other sale thread, if you think it's too expensive, don't buy them, but there's no need for everyone to comment. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will appreciate them for what they are and JCR are not as naive as people suggest.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

You can't patent a design. You can register a design which in this case might be worthwhile, depending on how similar they look to others in the marketplace (any paddles for any vehicle as the shape need not be gtr specific). Luckily there is a period of grace for filing designs and so publishing pictures won't have destroyed your chances if registering.

Question is will they pass an imperfect recollection test when compared to other paddles whose design has been registered?


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Great job on these Jonny, they look fantastic. It's your product, you get to price it where you think is appropriate.

No one went nuts on Alcon when they charged £12k for the BBK a few years ago even though you can get it for a tad over £6k now. So in essence they were making £6k above the margin they are currently making.


Good luck, I'm sure you'll get interest from well healed owners wanting something very exclusive and it would be a shame if your interest on the forum were to fade due to some negative comments. Regardless of affordability your contributions here are of great value.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Takamo said:


> Very nice... But we'll too expensive that's more than gtr tax


You guys are not appreciating the amount of time and effort put into this, as Johnny mentioned they are using a superior cloth to what is commonly used in after market kits but also the manufacturing process used.. R&D is not cheap. 

Look how much Mine's charges for similar things. Example Canards for over £1000.

http://www.mines-wave.com/JP/CATALOG/R35_3.html


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Knightracer will probably buy a set....



Voyager said:


> lovely paddles but way too steep a price for even the keen amateur owner.
> 
> i am interested to know why you don't think they will be copied ?
> 
> ...


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

FRRACER said:


> You guys are not appreciating the amount of time and effort put into this, as Johnny mentioned they are using a superior cloth to what is commonly used in after market kits but also the manufacturing process used.. R&D is not cheap.
> 
> Look how much Mine's charges for similar things. Example Canards for over £1000.
> 
> Mine's GT-R (R35)


Mines are stupidly overpriced as well, for all you guys who think it a fair price...... Buy some.... But I'm only being honest and saying that they are too expensive and like some of the other members have said if they were priced more realistic then I'm sure the response would have been quite different and more productive.


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Takamo said:


> Mines are stupidly overpriced as well, for all you guys who think it a fair price...... Buy some.... But I'm only being honest and saying that they are too expensive and like some of the other members have said if they were priced more realistic then I'm sure the response would have been quite different and more productive.



Feel free to extrapolate on 'overpriced'


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Takamo said:


> Mines are stupidly overpriced as well, for all you guys who think it a fair price...... Buy some.... But I'm only being honest and saying that they are too expensive and like some of the other members have said if they were priced more realistic then I'm sure the response would have been quite different and more productive.


As with Mine's your paying for a well developed quality item, not run of the mill replicas being knocked out in China.

If you want cheap and cheerful there are plenty of option, we have a we carbon kit traders to suit your budget on this forum.


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## Kevtga (Aug 17, 2013)

borat52 said:


> Great job on these Jonny, they look fantastic. It's your product, you get to price it where you think is appropriate.
> 
> No one went nuts on Alcon when they charged £12k for the BBK a few years ago even though you can get it for a tad over £6k now. So in essence they were making £6k above the margin they are currently making.
> 
> ...


+ 1 :thumbsup:


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## Little Nismo (May 31, 2002)

Gee people this stuff is pure automotive porn. It couldn't be sexier. If you want it pony up or shut up.

So to pitch a metaphor; It's a bit like complaining that Megan Fox is high maintenance so you won't date her, duh of course but it's worth it cause she's smokin and all your friends will be jealous. That's the essence of value WORTH IT. 

So everything GTR is expensive for a datsun, but then a Veyron indicator stalk costs 75k so the statement is meaningless without considering value.

If you can find as good cheaper then buy it. If you are happy to settle for close enough quality do that.


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## Papa Smurf (Sep 25, 2008)

These will sell as they are bespoke and of great quality. The success of any product is all about demand and whether they are priced correctly for the market they are aiming for. Jonny has obviously spent a lot of time and money developing these paddles and for those that have spent tens of thousands of pounds tuning their GT-R's, this is not an enormous price in comparison. If they don't sell then in my opinion it will be a shame, but as always, price is a factor.

What we need is a good independent assessment of the product and perhaps if Jonny was to make it to Silverstone on the 26th May or some other venue where it can be tried out, felt and judged, then the word 'overpriced' or 'expensive' could be applied or dispensed with.

Is there a free or priced cost of fitting, and can it be done by an Independent such as Litchfield's, Sly's or Autotorque?


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

The age old 'looks vs quality' debate. To copy the look of this would be achievable but it would be heavy and much thicker to get the weight and stiffness required. You couldn't copy this in the same construction method and materials and make it cheaper without cutting corners somewhere. I'm actually surprised they are this price, I was expecting quite a bit more.


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## robsm (Jul 22, 2008)

Look awesome Jonny, I was also expecting these to be more.


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## bobbie (Jan 3, 2013)

I would like to be a tester for these and do a write up on my findings, obviously they would have to be supplied FREE to me. Lol:thumbsup:

Bobby


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## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Very nice jonny :clap:


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

No one is saying that they aren't very nice, just too pricey in my opinion and if they were as fairly priced as some members feel then the orders would show that. Hope you do well with them


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## bobbie (Jan 3, 2013)

Hear is some extended paddle shifters for £230 not as nice as the carbon ones but look at the price AutoTecknic Competition Steering Shift Levers (Paddles) - Nissan R35 GT-R

Bobby


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

bobbie said:


> I would like to be a tester for these and do a write up on my findings, obviously they would have to be supplied FREE to me. Lol:thumbsup:
> 
> Bobby


there are quite a few people who try that in all seriousness.


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## bobbie (Jan 3, 2013)

matty32 said:


> there are quite a few people who try that in all seriousness.


Can only try:thumbsup:

Bobby


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Takamo said:


> No one is saying that they aren't very nice, just too pricey in my opinion and if they were as fairly priced as some members feel then the orders would show that. Hope you do well with them


I think what happened is that everyone got excited and expressed interest without an indication of cost and then got disappointed when the cost was higher than they anticipated.

It's his product, a fair price is the one he decides, seriously Alcon put way more margin than this on the BBK, why are we beating up on someone who's been very transparent and offered some genuinely new ideas to the GTR scene.

They are beyond my budget but so is a forged stage 5, it doesn't mean I wouldn't like one and it also doesn't mean I'm going to start putting SVM and litchfield down for pricing things beyond my budget.


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

I will be ordering a set, just not this minute.

Stunning work Jonny!!


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

borat52 said:


> I think what happened is that everyone got excited and expressed interest without an indication of cost and then got disappointed when the cost was higher than they anticipated.
> 
> It's his product, a fair price is the one he decides, seriously Alcon put way more margin than this on the BBK, why are we beating up on someone who's been very transparent and offered some genuinely new ideas to the GTR scene.
> 
> They are beyond my budget but so is a forged stage 5, it doesn't mean I wouldn't like one and it also doesn't mean I'm going to start putting SVM and litchfield down for pricing things beyond my budget.


I have no personal issue with the seller at all, just feel when something is too expensive then it's too expensive. Some of the gtr tuning bits are stupidly overpriced and feel it as an insult that some people think that us gtr owners are thick and that will just pay ridiculous prices for items just because we drive a gtr. I've been in the vehicle security/audio business for approximately 28years now and charge according to the the job not price of vehicle, for example parking sensors same no matter if you bring us a ford fiesta that's worth £50 or gtr that's £100k the supply fit price would be the same. I just feel the moment you mention gtr the price trebbles which ain't rite . most gtr owners didn't get to the blessed position in life of being a gtr owner because they are thick .


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

You should be more worried about those who put 50%-100% mark ups on JDM parts - we have a few on this forum also. 

JCR created a bespoke item and the quality reflects the price.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Takamo said:


> I have no personal issue with the seller at all, just feel when something is too expensive then it's too expensive. Some of the gtr tuning bits are stupidly overpriced and feel it as an insult that some people think that us gtr owners are thick and that will just pay ridiculous prices for items just because we drive a gtr. I've been in the vehicle security/audio business for approximately 28years now and charge according to the the job not price of vehicle, for example parking sensors same no matter if you bring us a ford fiesta that's worth £50 or gtr that's £100k the supply fit price would be the same. I just feel the moment you mention gtr the price trebbles which ain't rite . most gtr owners didn't get to the blessed position in life of being a gtr owner because they are thick .


You see I don't think you entirely understand the economics here.
First things first R35 owners are keen to believe they own a Supercar. So a company then creates a product based upon the sort of technology a supercar owner expects. They produce countless prototypes and perform lots of testing before having a finished product in the best material available. Then they get told it's too expensive because you could "lob it up" for less

If you tear down an Iphone it's got about £100 worth of bit in, but the real cost lies in R&D.

This item is not expensive because of the GTR tax, it's price reflects the sum of it's parts. If it's too expensive then it's not for you.,


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

Let me help define what we mean by 'overpriced'. I have no doubt that the quality is second to none and that the costs reflect the work and R&D that has gone into them. The point though is about 'value'. I doubt that many of us would experience £800 worth of benefit from the shifters versus those supplied in aluminium by Autotechnik for £200. Sure they will look nicer, and being longer they may work a little better, but in essence there isn't sufficient benefit over cheaper alternatives to warrant the price to the normal GTR owner.

The price that a customer will pay for an item is proportional to the perceived benefit of an item. There is no real benefit to using aerospace carbon fibre techniques on a paddle shifter, when plastic or aluminium are almost as good, but far far cheaper. If anything I suppose these are perhaps over engineered? It's the same reason my kitchen utensils are made out of steel or wood, rather than titanium. Sure titanium is lighter and stronger, but a wooden spoon does the job just fine and is much cheaper.

Not trying to discredit a clearly well engineered quality product, just trying to explain the stance of most GTR owners.


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## DonnyMac (Jun 21, 2012)

Caveman - you've just outed yourself as a non titanium kitchen utensil owner - oh the shame of it!

:chuckle:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Caveman said:


> Sure they will look nicer, and being longer they may work a little better


This is where the issue lies, this is not what these are about. They are designed to perform a specific function which the standard shifters fall short upon. The fact they are made of carbon is because it is the best material for the job. If wood was lighter and stronger they'd be made of that.

Hardcore track users and racers will see this as a product that has been missing up till now and the price reflects that fact.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

What's the betting that most of the pre-orders are from people who don't even post on the forum?


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Caveman said:


> If anything I suppose these are perhaps over engineered? It's the same reason my kitchen utensils are made out of steel or wood, rather than titanium. Sure titanium is lighter and stronger, but a wooden spoon does the job just fine and is much cheaper.


FYI steel is generally stronger than titanium. It's the strength to weight ratio that is desirable in titanium, compared with say aluminium (which is lighter!).


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## Tim Radley (Aug 3, 2013)

JCR won't be making much margin at this price for these components so there won't be a "GT-R tax" going on here. Price would be the same if it was for a basic DSG VW car.


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

Takamo said:


> I have no personal issue with the seller at all, just feel when something is too expensive then it's too expensive. Some of the gtr tuning bits are stupidly overpriced and feel it as an insult that some people think that us gtr owners are thick and that will just pay ridiculous prices for items just because we drive a gtr.


I have to agree and there is a fair bit of that going on in the GTR world. I don't mind paying any cost for something as long as I feel I am getting my money's worth. But sometimes I literally find myself guffawing at the screen when some poncey part is proffered at a 'reasonable' price when a little bit of common sense will tell you that you are being mugged. And I don't care what anyone says - the seller will be thinking that the target market are GTR owners so they can and will splash out the money. I think the issue lies in the fact that the GTR is known to be a car that owners like to mod and it also happens to be one of the most expensive cars that fall into that bracket. Yes, Ferraris and Astons cost more to buy but the aftermarket 'modding' market is no where near as big as the GTR scene. Therefore, those that want to make a packet out of modding enthusiasts will target the GTR because of an enthusiasm for the product and the perceived notion that we all have money to burn. But, as long as people keep paying, it will continue.


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

I have placed an order with Jonny, just waiting to send the funds over. Im hoping to get these and installed before I head out to the Nurburgring first weekend in May. If I do then I can come back here and give you guys an honest review as an average driver who enjoys a few track days per year. ( I can be your guinea pig)
I understand that some of you feel its over priced but you own a GTR not a golf gti. Im sure if you wanted some carbon paddles for a golf they would cost at least £300, so double the price isn't so unreasonable I think.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

New Reg said:


> I have to agree and there is a fair bit of that going on in the GTR world. I don't mind paying any cost for something as long as I feel I am getting my money's worth. But sometimes I literally find myself guffawing at the screen when some poncey part is proffered at a 'reasonable' price when a little bit of common sense will tell you that you are being mugged. And I don't care what anyone says - the seller will be thinking that the target market are GTR owners so they can and will splash out the money. I think the issue lies in the fact that the GTR is known to be a car that owners like to mod and it also happens to be one of the most expensive cars that fall into that bracket. Yes, Ferraris and Astons cost more to buy but the aftermarket 'modding' market is no where near as big as the GTR scene. Therefore, those that want to make a packet out of modding enthusiasts will target the GTR because of an enthusiasm for the product and the perceived notion that we all have money to burn. But, as long as people keep paying, it will continue.


No one disputes the existence of GTR tax but I think it's unfair to suggest this item or JCR are "trying it on"


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Donbona said:


> I have placed an order with Jonny, just waiting to send the funds over. Im hoping to get these and installed before I head out to the Nurburgring first weekend in May. If I do then I can come back here and give you guys an honest review as an average driver who enjoys a few track days per year. ( I can be your guinea pig)
> I understand that some of you feel its over priced but you own a GTR not a golf gti. Im sure if you wanted some carbon paddles for a golf they would cost at least £300, so double the price isn't so unreasonable I think.


How does it work pricing wise?

If 20 people haven't committed to them on the forum do you have to pay full price or will you get the highest level discount price?

I should add that while I think they are more than I expected, if I were keeping my current GT-R, I would be ordering a set of these. You get what you pay for and having met Johnny and seen his attention to detail and desire to create products that genuinely improve the car and driving experience, I've no doubt these will be fantastic to use.

Personally, I'd prefer a metal version, but mostly for reasons of looks (assuming they can be made rigid enough). This high end carbon fibre will not match the other low end carbon fibre that Nissan supplies from new!


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

Donbona said:


> I understand that some of you feel its over priced but you own a GTR not a golf gti. Im sure if you wanted some carbon paddles for a golf they would cost at least £300, so double the price isn't so unreasonable I think.


You see, that kind of attitude is the very one that ensures GTR tax is alive and well. You accept that, because you own a GTR, you will have to pay in excess of £650.00 for a part that costs (in your words) £300.00 on a lowly Golf GTI. You are happy to pay over double because of the car they are going to be fitted to! And your acceptance of that makes a seller rub their hands with glee because they know you will pay for it. Is the carbon paddle that is fitted to a GTR worth double what a carbon paddle fitted to a Golf is? No, not in my opinion? Are GTR owners twice as likely to accept they will have to pay over the odds as Golf owners and will happily cough up? Yep, I think so.



Mookistar said:


> No one disputes the existence of GTR tax but I think it's unfair to suggest this item or JCR are "trying it on"


Mook, my comments were in general agreement with Tak and were not directed specifically at any one company.


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

Adamantium said:


> How does it work pricing wise?
> 
> If 20 people haven't committed to them on the forum do you have to pay full price or will you get the highest level discount price?
> 
> ...


Im not sure yet, waiting for Jonny to let me know.... im guessing it depends on how many people place orders up to that point. 

When it comes to function I think Jonny knows his stuff being in the industry that he is in, so my main attraction to the paddles are how they can help me around the track... previously I owned a E9x M3 which I also had extended paddles installed, that made a huge difference around the track. Jonny also said that he put his oem paddles back on his car once testing had finished and he kept on missing the paddle with his hand 

Like I said, once I get them I will let you guys know how they are and look against my steering wheel which is a flat bottom and also how they are on daily driving.


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

New Reg said:


> You see, that kind of attitude is the very one that ensures GTR tax is alive and well. You accept that, because you own a GTR, you will have to pay in excess of £650.00 for a part that costs (in your words) £300.00 on a lowly Golf GTI. You are happy to pay over double because of the car they are going to be fitted to! And your acceptance of that makes a seller rub their hands with glee because they know you will pay for it. Is the carbon paddle that is fitted to a GTR worth double what a carbon paddle fitted to a Golf is? No, not in my opinion? Are GTR owners twice as likely to accept they will have to pay over the odds as Golf owners and will happily cough up? Yep, I think so.
> 
> 
> 
> Mook, my comments were in general agreement with Tak and were not directed specifically at any one company.



Its also like saying I will pay £100 for a Citizen watch or £10k for a Rolex.... why would you pay more for an item that does almost the same thing? Because it looks better and more attention to detail/functionality has gone into it.


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Donbona said:


> Its also like saying I will pay £100 for a Citizen watch or £10k for a Rolex.... why would you pay more for an item that does almost the same thing? Because it looks better and more attention to detail/functionality has gone into it.


Or even people who swap out their side skirts for carbon items, zero increase in functionality for a considerable cost.


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## New Reg (Jul 22, 2011)

Donbona said:


> Its also like saying I will pay £100 for a Citizen watch or £10k for a Rolex.... why would you pay more for an item that does almost the same thing? Because it looks better and more attention to detail/functionality has gone into it.


OK but you stated it is acceptable to pay double for an item that is fitted to one model of car over another?  That's my point and the point of GTR tax - the price is bumped up considerably on very similar products to reflect the market they are being sold into. 

I won't argue any more, the item in question looks a lovely product and am sure it will look the business once fitted. :thumbsup:


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

New Reg said:


> OK but you stated it is acceptable to pay double for an item that is fitted to one model of car over another?  That's my point and the point of GTR tax - the price is bumped up considerably on very similar products to reflect the market they are being sold into.
> 
> I won't argue any more, the item in question looks a lovely product and am sure it will look the business once fitted. :thumbsup:


No argument... just debating...

What I was trying to say was that Jonny has obviously put a lot of thought and racing expertise into these paddles... where as a £300 set of paddles for a golf will probably have less input involved :thumbsup:


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Donbona said:


> No argument... just debating...
> 
> What I was trying to say was that Jonny has obviously put a lot of thought and racing expertise into these paddles... where as a £300 set of paddles for a golf will probably have less input involved :thumbsup:


and sell in much larger numbers so give an ROI a loot sooner


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## snuffy (Mar 26, 2014)

New Reg said:


> Yes, Ferraris and Astons cost more to buy but the aftermarket 'modding' market is no where near as big as the GTR scene.


Having owned an Aston until 4 weeks ago I can give you a very good example of this:

The 4.3 V8 Vantage is 380bhp. You can't do much with it, but you can tune it a bit. The "accepted" upgrade will give you 40bhp more (exhaust, manifolds mainly) but it costs, wait for it.....wait for it... £6000 !

Some people think that's fine. I fall in to the camp of "if you think I'm going to spend 6 big ones on 40 extra horses you can whistle dixie out of your arse".


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Those of you its real good value for money ... Place your orders now before the mad rush and they run out.....


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## jambo 32gtr (Apr 1, 2009)

Takamo said:


> Those of you its real good value for money ... Place your orders now before the mad rush and they run out.....


If you can't afford them or think there to expensive then stop crapping this thread with pointless posts.I don't get how people think they can tell people how to price there products or bitch and moan about them, the man has obviously spent alot of time and money researching the product so it's up to him how he price's it


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

jambo 32gtr said:


> If you can't afford them or think there to expensive then stop crapping this thread with pointless posts.I don't get how people think they can tell people how to price there products or bitch and moan about them, the man has obviously spent alot of time and money researching the product so it's up to him how he price's it


I think the point isn't to denigrate the product at all. We are a keen group of GTR enthusiasts who are the target market and unanimously love the product, but feel it is important for the seller to understand that for most of us, the price is unfeasible for the benefit that the product offers.

The development of any successful product normally includes customer testing, feasibility studies and market evaluation.

It seems a shame to limit the sale of what is clearly a well designed product, to a small niche customer base. I think priced below £500 they would sell many times more. All IMHO only.

It depends on what the objective is. I would assume that this is a commercially driven venture, rather than automotive art? That being the case, finding the right price point is crucial to product success, no matter how good it is!
Mart.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

jambo 32gtr said:


> If you can't afford them or think there to expensive then stop crapping this thread with pointless posts.I don't get how people think they can tell people how to price there products or bitch and moan about them, the man has obviously spent alot of time and money researching the product so it's up to him how he price's it


Buddy I can afford more than you could ever imagine, but it's the principal, and yes we the buyers do have a rite to say if something is too expensive or if it's value for money, and I'm not thread crapping so less of your crappy comments please :thumbsup:


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## Little Nismo (May 31, 2002)

Caveman said:


> Let me help define what we mean by 'overpriced'. I have no doubt that the quality is second to none and that the costs reflect the work and R&D that has gone into them. The point though is about 'value'. I doubt that many of us would experience £800 worth of benefit from the shifters versus those supplied in aluminium by Autotechnik for £200. Sure they will look nicer, and being longer they may work a little better, but in essence there isn't sufficient benefit over cheaper alternatives to warrant the price to the normal GTR owner.
> 
> The price that a customer will pay for an item is proportional to the perceived benefit of an item. There is no real benefit to using aerospace carbon fibre techniques on a paddle shifter, when plastic or aluminium are almost as good, but far far cheaper. If anything I suppose these are perhaps over engineered? It's the same reason my kitchen utensils are made out of steel or wood, rather than titanium. Sure titanium is lighter and stronger, but a wooden spoon does the job just fine and is much cheaper.
> 
> Not trying to discredit a clearly well engineered quality product, just trying to explain the stance of most GTR owners.


Why have a GTR then? It is overpriced. It does nothing materially better than a golf gti. It uses more gas, is harder to park, costs more to run in every way. Since getting somewhere faster has little real value and is not even guaranteed given speed limits and traffic you've surely wasted your money by your own rationale. People tell me this about my car all the time. But it rather misses the point doesn't it?


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## jambo 32gtr (Apr 1, 2009)

Takamo said:


> Buddy I can afford more than you could ever imagine,
> 
> oh dear after that I got nothing more to add to this thread


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## Little Nismo (May 31, 2002)

Takamo said:


> Buddy I can afford more than you could ever imagine, but it's the principal, and yes we the buyers do have a rite to say if something is too expensive or if it's value for money, and I'm not thread crapping so less of your crappy comments please :thumbsup:


People spend way more on a watch and it only tells the time. This little paddle assists in bending it...

So, your rich and believe this is a horrible economic venture and people who own GTR's need saving from themselves least they throw their money away. Yes we hear you. Your still killing someone else's thread. Let folk decide for themselves it's pretty rude to stomp around someone's product release poo pooing.


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## Gasman (Mar 24, 2013)

So it appears many of you view this product as over engineered and as a result over priced. That doesn't mean there's no market for it. Some people want the best of the best and are willing to pay for it. Sure the price has alienated a large percentage of prospective customers but 'stack em high sell em cheap' was never the agenda here as those cheaper products seemingly already exist. 

I wonder how many of you pay £80 for a cotton tshirt just because of a logo?


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Takamo said:


> Those of you its real good value for money ... Place your orders now before the mad rush and they run out.....


If you feel so strongly about the GTR tax, why not launch an attack on rip off traders who inflate their prices 50%-100% on RHDJapan, Nengun etc prices.. or those who sell up to 20 year old second hand Skyline GTR parts are sky high prices.

This situation with the paddles is totally different and does not warrant this level of bashing on the price. This is a quality item and expect to pay a premium.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

What is it about your threads Jonny...? People can't help but squabble.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Takamo said:


> Those of you its real good value for money ... Place your orders now before the mad rush and they run out.....


I can buy a parking sensor kit on eBay for £12 and reckon it'll take an hour to fit so I assume your business charges about £50 to supply and fit a rear parking system?

Or are there other costs involved?


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## GTaaaaaarrrrrr! (May 4, 2006)

Am I the only who thinks this thread should be cleaned?


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

Agreed ^^^


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## goRt (May 17, 2011)

I think it should be moved to the correct section too!


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Remove all the bickering comments.


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## G2GUV (Dec 16, 2012)

Takamo said:


> Buddy I can afford more than you could ever imagine, but it's the principal, and yes we the buyers do have a rite to say if something is too expensive or if it's value for money, and I'm not thread crapping so less of your crappy comments please :thumbsup:


LMFAO!!! 

I walked past Harrods in Knightsbridge the other week whilst out to upgrade my mobile phone! Saw a Vertue Mobile Handset up for £8,999.00!!!???!!! Lovely looking phone! I walked on to the Tmobile store and upgraded to an Iphone 5s for £80!!! Guess what - I didn't stand outside 'protesting' about Vertue's ridiculous prices and the 'Knightbridge' Tax!!! Just wasn't for me - so I quietly moved on!!! Didn't want to make myself look like a d*ck! 

Lovely looking paddles by the way Jonny & TEAM JCR! :thumbsup:


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Talk is cheap.... Put your money where your mouths are and buy them as they are such great value for money.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Mookistar said:


> I can buy a parking sensor kit on eBay for £12 and reckon it'll take an hour to fit so I assume your business charges about £50 to supply and fit a rear parking system?
> 
> Or are there other costs involved?


May you could come and work for me if you fit a full parking sensor kit onto a gtr in an hour Properly..... Lol, joke aside firstly we offer a service not just a product and allow 3hrs labour in the price so when you add the price of parts and labour together it's a very good value system. Going by your rational the parking sensor kit should be £2000 because of thought and design that went into it.... No of course not that would be a daft price and anyway what's so special about any paddles they all do the same job they only look nicer really so where's the technology.


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

Takamo said:


> Talk is cheap.... Put your money where your mouths are and buy them as they are such great value for money.


I already have :chuckle:

At the end of the day you drive a GTR, if you can afford one along with the services and mods then you can afford these paddles. Depending on if you like them or want them is a different story.

I like the look and what they could help me with when im changing gear around a track. Plus I always like my cars do be a little different  
Its never about the money, its because I want it and at that point in time I can.


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## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

Donbona said:


> I already have :chuckle:


Respect to you


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## Little Nismo (May 31, 2002)

G2GUV said:


> LMFAO!!!
> 
> I walked past Harrods in Knightsbridge the other week whilst out to upgrade my mobile phone! Saw a Vertue Mobile Handset up for £8,999.00!!!???!!! Lovely looking phone! I walked on to the Tmobile store and upgraded to an Iphone 5s for £80!!! Guess what - I didn't stand outside 'protesting' about Vertue's ridiculous prices and the 'Knightbridge' Tax!!! Just wasn't for me - so I quietly moved on!!! Didn't want to make myself look like a d*ck!
> 
> Lovely looking paddles by the way Jonny & TEAM JCR! :thumbsup:


Man you should have totally gone in there and told then how rubbish their products are. Overpriced and poor value for Money you should have also illuminated their terrible business model which they overlooked somehow. 

Oh right in real life you'd come across as an ass hat. Hmmm.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

There is a slight difference between a high street shop and community forum with traders.


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

Takamo said:


> May you could come and work for me if you fit a full parking sensor kit onto a gtr in an hour Properly..... Lol, joke aside firstly we offer a service not just a product and allow 3hrs labour in the price so when you add the price of parts and labour together it's a very good value system. Going by your rational the parking sensor kit should be £2000 because of thought and design that went into it.... No of course not that would be a daft price and anyway what's so special about any paddles they all do the same job they only look nicer really so where's the technology.


The same could be said about a £50 Seiko watch vs a £10k Rolex. Some people prefer quality to something just basic that does the job.

BTW have you seen MCR and their paddle kit?

JDM Auto Link: MCR Paddle System (Advance Model) - R35 GT-R

Priced at around £675 excluding shipping and import tax. So these ones from JCR seemed to be priced just right.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Takamo said:


> and anyway what's so special about any paddles they all do the same job they only look nicer really so where's the technology.


And there sir is where you have totally missed the point. If you don't even know WHY they made these paddles, how can you possibly comment on their value.:runaway:


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## Little Nismo (May 31, 2002)

FRRACER said:


> The same could be said about a £50 Seiko watch vs a £10k Rolex. Some people prefer quality to something just basic that does the job.
> 
> BTW have you seen MCR and their paddle kit?
> 
> ...


Not really as cool or as big though are they...


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Very interesting feedback. To be honest, I can't say that I'm surprised with the mix reaction over the price, this was always going to be the case when developing and releasing a premium product.

JCR came from my passion for cars, motorsport and engineering. I want to create something special, develop products above and beyond what would otherwise be available.

There is a market for the type of products JCR are developing within the GTR community, and its those people who my products are made for. Yes its slim, but I have no desire to be like everyone else. Sure some will throw around comments such as 'overpriced' and 'GTR tax' but in reality they are totally inaccurate and pretty unfair.

What any material item is 'worth' is purely subjective. If your desire to own justifies the asking price then its 'worth' it. Put simply, everyone's different.

Enjoy the JCR products for what they are


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## Little Nismo (May 31, 2002)

BOOM! well said.


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## grahamc (Oct 1, 2006)

JCR_GTR said:


> Very interesting feedback. To be honest, I can't say that I'm surprised with the mix reaction over the price, this was always going to be the case when developing and releasing a premium product.
> 
> JCR came from my passion for cars, motorsport and engineering. I want to create something special, develop products above and beyond what would otherwise be available.
> 
> ...


Very well said, good luck with it :thumbsup:


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## Hazza (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm glad these exist - everything now is designed with the price decided first and then reduced before the project is even started. Some people like the choice of being able to buy something where cost wasn't the driving factor and actually something that is both functional, tactile and nice to look at is what they want. Life isnt just about cheapest price as im sure you guys who have your own businesses understand all too well.


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## MattGTR750 (Apr 26, 2012)

The price is the price it needs to be for the amount of r+d and the very best quality materials!!

Although what I think a lot of people here would like to see is a lower or less quality carbon but the same or similar design at a price which reflects the cheaper material being used.

Let's say iPhone 5C and 5S just as an example...

Love the product... As I said to you Jonny I'll have a set once I get some spare cash again


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## MattGTR750 (Apr 26, 2012)

Good products ain't cheap.... Cheap products ain't good !!

I like that saying use it a lot lol


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## AnEvoGuy (Aug 17, 2011)

I think personally there is a balance to be met. It's ok to state that you think the cost is too high, to provide feedback. But I think it's a bit unfair to talk about ripping people off or gtr tax.

I reckon as soon as someone provides positive feedback (presuming that they are as good as JCR say they are) then the cost will be largely forgotten. Remember what happened with the Akropovic exhausts till David Yu got his hands on one...


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

AnEvoGuy said:


> I think personally there is a balance to be met. It's ok to state that you think the cost is too high, to provide feedback. But I think it's a bit unfair to talk about ripping people off or gtr tax.
> 
> I reckon as soon as someone provides positive feedback (presuming that they are as good as JCR say they are) then the cost will be largely forgotten. Remember what happened with the Akropovic exhausts till David Yu got his hands on one...


Exactly, I had Akrapovic on my previous car (M3) loved it then and love it on the GTR


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## Caveman (Apr 28, 2004)

I think offering the design at a variety of price points and material levels is a great idea and a way to both sell more product, and appeal to more of the tight arses like me. 

Would you be able to replicate the design in plastic for example at a lower price and thus offer a standard and premium version?


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Caveman said:


> I think offering the design at a variety of price points and material levels is a great idea and a way to both sell more product, and appeal to more of the tight arses like me.
> 
> Would you be able to replicate the design in plastic for example at a lower price and thus offer a standard and premium version?



It's certainly not out of the question but for the foreseeable future the Carbon fibre offering will be the only variant available.

Never say never though


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## DODGY (Oct 28, 2001)

Mine ordered this morning 

Graham


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Thanks Graham, looking forward to hearing your thoughts


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

The JCR Splitter will do me for now.


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## DODGY (Oct 28, 2001)

Ja5on said:


> The JCR Splitter will do me for now.


Ooooooooooo u getting/got one? 

Graham


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

Got one. Getting fitted when Im back from offshore,


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Guys.. Due to the high level of demand from various countries around the globe for the JCR Carbon Fibre Paddle Shifters I have decided to honour the group buy price for the first 20 sets of paddles purchased via the GTROC forum..

There are currently 12 sets left at the £595+vat price .. First paddles arriving next week 

Email at [email protected] or PM on the forum to place an order

Cheers

Jonny


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## DODGY (Oct 28, 2001)

Ja5on said:


> Got one. Getting fitted when Im back from offshore,


Any pics of the splitter close up?

Graham


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## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

Hope this works if not jonny may need to post some


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

Can't wait to receive mine


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## DODGY (Oct 28, 2001)

Ja5on said:


> Hope this works if not jonny may need to post some


 I like but might stick out abit far for me, I'll have to get someone to buy one that lives near me and look at it lol.

Graham


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## s2gtr (Jun 30, 2001)

Love that splitter:clap: How much?

Dave:thumbsup:


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## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

JC, Can you explain why these are needed apart from them being pretty? I've never had an issue with fixed paddles on any road or race car. 

Is it less of an issue if you have big hands? You quick racing types are usually smaller chaps 

I'm not being funny, it really is a serious question! It could be I'm missing out but have never realised.


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## [email protected] (Nov 4, 2010)

Thick end of a grand for carbon paddle shifts, blimey !!


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Blade said:


> JC, Can you explain why these are needed apart from them being pretty? I've never had an issue with fixed paddles on any road or race car.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Tony,

Increasing the paddle length and altering the geometry was the main focus of the project. Allowing the driver to keep hands in a proper position without having to remove during a lap. 

We've added an extra ~20 degrees of useable lock in either direction with these changes. I've found that's the difference between having to either take a gear early (as your hand passes the paddle during a turn) or removing your hand completely from the wheel.

Obviously they look great too that goes without saying and these will not deteriorate like the stock paddles.

Yes they're not cheap, but you get what you pay for here. A properly engineered structural carbon fibre component using some of the latest composite technologies.

I've no doubt that everyone who drives a car with these installed will want them


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## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

JCR_GTR said:


> Hey Tony,
> 
> Increasing the paddle length and altering the geometry was the main focus of the project. Allowing the driver to keep hands in a proper position without having to remove during a lap.
> 
> ...


I'm not worried about the cost, just was struggling with whether they gave a functional difference. 

Now you have got me wondering if I am delaying gear changes or moving my hands off the wheel as a result of the paddles being too small! AARRGGHH! 

Driving in with my M3 GTS which has paddles on the wheel, they aren't really better than fixed paddles


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

Blade said:


> I'm not worried about the cost, just was struggling with whether they gave a functional difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Go drive your GTR fast on track (or even a spirited drive down a country lane) and if you can select up and down every gear exactly when you require without removing or repositioning your hand on the wheel and I'll give you a set for free*

* Not really, but you get the point


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## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

JCR_GTR said:


> Go drive your GTR fast on track (or even a spirited drive down a country lane) and if you can select up and down every gear exactly when you require without removing or repositioning your hand on the wheel and I'll give you a set for free*
> 
> * Not really, but you get the point


You may well be right, I may well not be consciously aware I'm moving hands.

Will try and report back! 

They are possibly justifiable just because they look pretty


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## Donbona (Apr 18, 2013)

JCR_GTR said:


> Go drive your GTR fast on track (or even a spirited drive down a country lane) and if you can select up and down every gear exactly when you require without removing or repositioning your hand on the wheel and I'll give you a set for free*
> 
> * Not really, but you get the point


I have this problem, especially since my previous car was a 2008 M3... Which has the paddles on the wheel


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## DODGY (Oct 28, 2001)

Personally I firstly wanted them for the looks but the last few times out in the car I've been finding me moving my hands more to change gear and that was annoying me. That's what finally made me order them.

Graham


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## AnEvoGuy (Aug 17, 2011)

DODGY said:


> Personally I firstly wanted them for the looks but the last few times out in the car I've been finding me moving my hands more to change gear and that was annoying me. That's what finally made me order them.
> 
> Graham


I have only had my gt-r a few weeks and have also noticed the need to move my hands when changing gear. I'm not finding it intuitive at the moment, but maybe that will change with time.


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

AnEvoGuy said:


> I have only had my gt-r a few weeks and have also noticed the need to move my hands when changing gear. I'm not finding it intuitive at the moment, but maybe that will change with time.



You certainly get used to the stock paddles that goes without saying but the increased functionality of the JCR paddles (in my opinion) adds to the driving experience..

Best thing you can do is jump in a car with them installed and see what you think


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

JCR_GTR said:


> Best thing you can do is jump in a car with them installed and see what you think



I suspect that's actually the worst thing you could do, as once you have tried them you will almost certainly want a set


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## JCR_GTR (Jul 18, 2013)

gtr mart said:


> I suspect that's actually the worst thing you could do, as once you have tried them you will almost certainly want a set



Precisely haha..


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