# over 1 bar on ceramics - poll



## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

if you've run more than recommended 1 bar on stock turbos, your results were...?


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

lol, nice one


currently running 1.2 bar on ceramics, [email protected]


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## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

Running 1 bar, rare overshoots to 1.3... No problems as yet (touch wood!).


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

how long have you been overboosting like that?


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## markpriorgts-t (May 23, 2004)

ran mine @ just on 1 bar never did find that exhaust wheel lol


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

markpriorgts-t said:


> ran mine @ just on 1 bar never did find that exhaust wheel lol


how long was you running that boost?, did you take it easy with them or did you spank them time after time like when on a trackday?


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

i think the poll is reading wrong

1 bar, and over 1 bar without any problems should be two seperate options

mook


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## b19bstgtr33 (Oct 12, 2005)

was running 1.3 to 1.4 on ceramics for a good few thousand miles and never blew. they run very well


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## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

T.F.S. said:


> how long have you been overboosting like that?



No idea (only had the car one month); whenever I look at the boost controller/guage it sticks at 1 bar no worries but the peak display function shows 1.3 ish...


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## car killer (Oct 27, 2005)

ran mine around a year on 1bar and blew the exhaust wheel clean off the rear turbo thank **** it all went down the exhaust.Still got the remnants of the exhaust wheel as it got stuck in the back box :chuckle: 
I think it is a case of when will they break rather than if they will.


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## Christophert21 (Jun 14, 2007)

ran mine at 1.2-1.3 bar for 6 months of hard abuse.

never gave me bother.....

and made 448bhp


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## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

b19bstgtr33 said:


> was running 1.3 to 1.4 on ceramics for a good few thousand miles and never blew. they run very well


Quick but a lottery ticket ! :chuckle: 

R34 engine and turbos, fitted decat which causes them to over boost as the waste-gate is too small to expel the pressure !
Result < totally trashed engine and disillusionment with ceramics.
Even now, when eating cereal out of the bowl I expect it to shatter and take out the rest of the building !


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## GeorgeGTR (Feb 16, 2006)

You can run more boost out of them than the recomended 1 bar max but depending on how fit the turbo's are to start with depends on how long you'll be making boost! 

Best to be safe!


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

cokey;720443
Even now said:


> :chuckle: :chuckle:


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## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

That has to be quote of the month, if not year!


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

I have to ask, why risk blowing engines & turbos by running a car higher than 1 bar? Surely your asking for trouble?


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## huskyracer (Jun 23, 2007)

I suppose because people like me want to go faster than we can really afford to! This thread is interesting, as I cant afford to upgrade turbos yet, but obviously want more power than 1 bar gives. I also like to prove wrong the "you cant do that" brigade


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

huskyracer;721309 I also like to prove wrong the "you cant do that" brigade[/QUOTE said:


> But how long do you stay right for? Surely its cheaper and less trouble to buy better turbos, than to have a rebuild?opcorn:


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## xaero1 (Feb 9, 2004)

cokey, you're hilarious 

ru' don't worry about the peak figures, i run mine at 0.9 and if you watch the gauge it stays there solid, but occasionally spikes to 1.1 especially if i'm in 4th or 5th gear.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

R34 engine and turbos, fitted decat which causes them to over boost as the waste-gate is too small to expel the pressure !
Result < totally trashed engine and disillusionment with ceramics.
Even now, when eating cereal out of the bowl I expect it to shatter and take out the rest of the building ![/QUOTE]



Yeah the Gtr 34 is differant ,if you put free flowing exhaust on and de cat pipe you need to fit a 60 mill (it think thats the size) restrictor ring just before the decat to stop over boosting .


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Aren't the R34 ceramics different and supposed to be good for 1.15bar?


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## Luckham (Nov 10, 2005)

TREG said:


> But how long do you stay right for? Surely its cheaper and less trouble to buy better turbos, than to have a rebuild?opcorn:


Agreed.. Run Ceramics at over a bar, and its a matter of when not if.. As GTST says though I think you can run the R34 ones at around a bar without problems, Strictly 0.8 though for the R32 / R33 ones.

My advice would be to convert to steel internals, job done for less than 500 quid.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

so far, it looks like the odds of catastrophic failure is around 10%.

btw, I guess I'm the only poor bastard to blow my engine but not my turbo wheels...


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## gfunk (Jan 15, 2003)

i have run 3 diffrent 32 gtrs with ceramics at 1.2 bar total of around 50,000 miles no bother


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## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

I'm waiting for funds for new turbos to come my way (not sure where from yet...) so as long as mine hold out till then I'm happy.

Apaprently they were running at 1.2 bar for quite a while before I bought the car anyway.


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## stealth (Jul 6, 2004)

R33_GTS-t said:


> Aren't the R34 ceramics different and supposed to be good for 1.15bar?



Yep thats about right 1.15 bar but you still need the restrictor in the exhaust but not on the other models .R34 turbo's are slightly better build and more heavy duty


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## Luckham (Nov 10, 2005)

gfunk said:


> i have run 3 diffrent 32 gtrs with ceramics at 1.2 bar total of around 50,000 miles no bother


Interesting - but that is only 16,000 miles each, which is hardly a long term test.. 

Personally I wouldn't risk it myself. I have enough to worry about in life, without having to stress about wrecking my engine every time I lift off the throttle after a hard boot.


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## weka (Jul 3, 2001)

Had my factory turbos set at 1.4 max for nearly a year and no problems.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

I think alot depends on how often you use your car also, theres no point saying mine have been running 1.2 bar for 2 years- if its only weekend use! The other thing would be how often do you manage to open the car up to decent revs?


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## psst (Mar 16, 2007)

R34 stock turbos been running 1.2 bar since 2004. Since I've owned it at the beggining of the year I've spanked it across europe and the ring several times. 

Hasn't Moleman run some silly boost on stock stuff?


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Luckham said:


> Agreed.. Run Ceramics at over a bar, and its a matter of when not if.. As GTST says though I think you can run the R34 ones at around a bar without problems, Strictly 0.8 though for the R32 / R33 ones.
> 
> My advice would be to convert to steel internals, job done for less than 500 quid.


0.8 bar is a bit pessimistic. Between 2 R32s, I've ran 0.9 bar for 40,000 miles with no hint of problems.


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## Luckham (Nov 10, 2005)

R33_GTS-t said:


> 0.8 bar is a bit pessimistic. Between 2 R32s, I've ran 0.9 bar for 40,000 miles with no hint of problems.


Yeah running 0.9 would be alright I guess, but seeing as life begins at 1 bar, you might as well spend the relatively small amount of money & take that potentially damaging factor out the loop, don't you think? 

Looking at the poll roughly 35% of people that have run ceramics over a bar have fcuked them, roughly one third of which have also taken their engine out in the process, which doesn’t strike me as particularly good odds.. 

I wouldn't sleep very well at night If I had ceramics, the damned things scare me


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## jellgtr (Feb 4, 2006)

i run my standards on 1.1 bar with no probs  

well untill the cambelt tensioner decided to cease witout warning :bawling:


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## nitrogts (Jun 5, 2007)

These figures all seem to be quoted for twins (gtr), is it the same for single ceramics (gts-t)???


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## i4dat (Sep 29, 2006)

Actually, I really wonder how you need to be driving in order to kill them.

I mean, if you are like me, and you might wind out 1st and 2nd gear but never any of the other gears, would that increase or decrease the chance of something "BAD" happening?

I only ask because this is how I drive, and generally, after opening up the restrictor, I will spike to 16 psi on a coldish (its never cold here) morning but otherwise its just 15 psi.


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## goghat (May 13, 2007)

bloke says that you can change from ceramics to steel internals for £500, is this correct, if so where, im up for that


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## sky 1t (Nov 5, 2004)

I've ran mine for 2 & 1/2 years at 1.1bar (4,000 miles i've done) & they do feel like there on the limit (especially on a day when the air is less dense & i hear slight pinking!!!) so I wouldn't recomend any higher boost than that.


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

I've owned my car from brand new. Got a boost controller put in pretty much straight away and once it was run in (5000km's) then I started running 1.15-1.2 bar in them. Just replaced them now to go to a big single and they're still working just fine, I've just clicked over to 125,000 km's or just under 80,000 miles in 6 years of ownership...........

That's a long term test 

Done a heap of trackdays and drive the car pretty hard in the street so it's not been nanna'ed.


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## drewby (Jan 15, 2004)

M8, run them on 1,1 bar, its a bit more power, we out going mad, cheers. D


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## lonewolf (Feb 2, 2007)

I've been running 1.0 bar on R34 N1's for the past 6 months (~4000 miles), since I have had the GTR, without problem (touch wood!).


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

N1's should be good for 1.4 bar iirc
(assuming everything else is up to the job)


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## ericgtr (Jun 23, 2007)

i have to run my gtr34 vpec2 std turbos for about 20000 kilometers boosting about 1.2 sometimes spike to 1.3 with hks evc5 boost controller so far no problem.hopefully it will last.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Im gonna give 1.2bar a go on mine.

Turbos will go but the shattered turbine blades cant be sucked into the engine, and its unlikly that compressor damage will happen (and even less chance of the bits getting past the intercooler), so nothing to lose.


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

I thought they could get sucked in if you came off the throtle stav, reversion?


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

T.F.S. said:


> I thought they could get sucked in if you came off the throtle stav, reversion?


How on earth could that happen? Ive heard it here loads, but dont get what they on about.

They getting confused with the compressor side IMO.

You ever seen an exhaust suck?

Dont matter if its at 1000rpm idle or 8000rpm screaming, theres still exhaust gas coming out the exhaust ports and a fair old rate, certainly not going in.

IMO its one of the many many retarded things people believe on here that helps companys pull their pants down for more money.


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

SteveN said:


> How on earth could that happen? Ive heard it here loads, but dont get what they on about.
> 
> They getting confused with the compressor side IMO.
> 
> ...


yes it was something i heard on here lol but reversion does happen to an extent does it not?, i thought for each combustion stroke some exhaust was reversed?

i thought that if you came off the throttle at high RPMs the engine would scavange for cylinder fill

im not saying you are wrong i just want to understand this better


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## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

Just in case anyone has some bad luck, I have a pair of standard turbos for sale:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/84780-standard-r33-gtr-turbos-sale.html

(sorry for the spam)


(aactually, I'm not really sorry)


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## bhw (Oct 12, 2007)

SteveN said:


> You ever seen an exhaust suck?


Not strictly true, in a way it does...

The impeller on the inlet of the Turbo is turned by the tubine on the exhaust side via a shaft. Technically, either side could fail if stressed.

Not having the technical knowledge on exactly how a Turbo works, what happens to the impeller when the turbine fails? Does it just sit in place or does it then unseat?

If it can unseat whilst still turning at god knows what RPM, bits are going to come off and end up in the engine.


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

bhw said:


> Not strictly true, in a way it does...
> 
> The impeller on the inlet of the Turbo is turned by the tubine on the exhaust side via a shaft. Technically, either side could fail if stressed.
> 
> ...


compressor is usually undamaged.

and even if it did come of, which is never seems to, its unlikely any of it to get all the way through the intercooler.

its turbine bits being "sucked" into the engine on liftoff you always hear people talking about.

ive no idea at all how its possible though? (its not, surely?)


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## frostmotorsport (Aug 10, 2007)

I think what bhw was implying is that if the exhaust wheel fails catastrophically that despite the fact that all the gas flow is out the tailpipe, bits of failed impeller could be flung back up the exhaust manifold and into the cylinder? That's what I assumed would happen. 

Additionally, this could unbalance teh whole assembly and cause a secondary failure of the compressor (intake) turbine - whatever - given sufficient velocity and pressure, it's not unfeasible that small particles could punch their way through the I/C and into the engine? discuss.


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## StretchGSK (Oct 24, 2006)

This is a pretty important topic as I am busy trying to decide if I need to spend money stopping my fresh import (R34) boosting to 1.2

I tend to agree with SteveN but Frost you make a good point about the unbalanced wheel.

Has anyone actually got proof of a ceramic blade ending up inside the motor?


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

heard about plenty of rebuilds where the blades have reversed and hit the valves but havent sen it with my own eyes as such....

need a tuner to comment maybe..


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

Ran 1.4 bar and blew the debris down the pipe:clap: 
Did not realise it was a problem so ran 1.4 bar on next set and not so lucky next time. Blew the engine to bits with debris,:bawling: 

Still the spangly all singing all dancing tomei bits in the rebuild were worth the heartache:smokin: 

Jay


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## StretchGSK (Oct 24, 2006)

blueskygtr said:


> Ran 1.4 bar and blew the debris down the pipe:clap:
> Did not realise it was a problem so ran 1.4 bar on next set and not so lucky next time. Blew the engine to bits with debris,:bawling:
> 
> Still the spangly all singing all dancing tomei bits in the rebuild were worth the heartache:smokin:
> ...


Can you possibly post some more details about what exactly went wrong and how the engine got damaged?

Thanks


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

There has been so many things that have caused me greif its hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.
Impeller blades and ither parts of the turbo were found in the sump when stripped down 
Running more than the std boost means it needs more fuel and not addressing this means you also end up with a det problem
The following thread has some pics of the damage to the bores from contamination in the oil and the damage to the head and piston tops from det.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/23791-oh-my-god-x2-3.html

Put simply (and i am sure all on here will agree) DONT run more than 1 bar on the ceramics. They dont like it and the std ecu is not equipped to fuel it.

These things are not cheap to rebuild and it takes the shine off owning a truly great supercar.

Jay


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## Vihis (Jan 1, 2008)

I would be interested in how many of the "I' still pushing them" -take care of the turbos after a drive to cool them down \ wait a while after starting the car and not punishing the turbos too soon, before the oil has started circulating enough.

Good poll this one !


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## blueskygtr (Mar 24, 2004)

I would prob add to this after reading all the replies.
The debris in the sump was recognisable as blades and shaft.
My rear turbo second time around completely destroyed the entire unit effectively leaving the housings.
I wish i had taken photos as it was a sight to see.
The loss of the turbine wheels i think made the whole unit unstable and the compressor blades hit the housing taking out the whole lot.i was on full chat at 1.4-5 bar when they went.
It may be that the compressor bits somehow made their way through the I/C (That was full of oil too).
I cant offer engineers advice as i am layman and only know what i have learnt through owning the car.
Remember the 32 turbos were more brittle than the 33s, and the 34s mostly came with steels/N1s i think. However age must be a factor too!
My original turbos were prob fitted to the car from new and had covered some 45k miles Enough to make any turbo reaching the end of its usefull life fail. Newer car = newer turbos = better reliability
My only question is why risk it?
For the sake of the small cost of going steel is it worth it?
Jay


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## Addicted2Boost (Nov 15, 2007)

I think that for R32 and R33s im pretty sure you shudnt run over 1 bar and that shud be pretty much your max boost on stock turbos.... but for the R34s, i have read so many places and in magazines running around 1.2~1.3bar as max safe boost day in day out... 

That is what im running around 1.14 ~ 1.2bar... (only if the damn blitz SBC id will bloody hold it stable at 1.2bar! aaargg... LOL)


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## RamRod (Apr 28, 2004)

Have there been any failures with ceramics at standard pressure? This will give an idea of how long they last under normal conditions. We can use this to determine if there is an elevated failure rate when running larger boost.


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

"normal conditions" is a hard thing to quantify...for some its holding full boost/WOT for over 1min in fifth, for others its a 6250rpm limit through the gears and no motorway speed trials


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## Butuz (Jan 9, 2005)

Want to overboost Ceramics?










The inlet blasted its way through the head too  

Not my car thank god - but my mates. 

Butuz


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## StretchGSK (Oct 24, 2006)

Thanks for posting that.
Cant really deny that evidence, looks like total shaft failure as opposed to blades breaking off as most people mention.
What model was this? R32/33/34

Also reading a lot that the R34 turbos can be run to about 1.2


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## Butuz (Jan 9, 2005)

That was R32 std turbos yes. The exhaust side of the wheel got blown straight through both silencers, and 90% of the way up the 3" exaust bung that was fitted - if anyone doubts exhaust pressure....

Butuz


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## DaveV (Feb 27, 2007)

Holy crap it nearly escaped!

What are the circumstances of the failure? Like what boost, was is a sustained run in a high gear or a blast through the gears etc?


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

i was on standard boost, light throttle when mine went

chuck 'em away asap, it's only a matter of time before they shatter


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## JP_Tuner (May 6, 2004)

On my original motor with 125,000km's on it, I had one of my turbos blow some exhaust fins out the tail pipe. I was only running .9bar but then again, it was the original motor with a crap load of miles on it. The second set of stock turbos I kept at 1bar with no problems.


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## RamRod (Apr 28, 2004)

Are the R33 turbos just as bad as R32?


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

yep..


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## DaveV (Feb 27, 2007)

There's a tuner here in Ireland who routinely maps GTR ceramics to 1.1bar. 

They are an official Apexi dealer and were trained by Apexi's top GTR mappers (apparently).

Apexi advise them that they will have no trouble at 1.1 bar on all GTR ceramics from R32 upwards.

Interesting eh?


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

not that interesting if you read the thread TBH

i ran mine at 1.36 bar for years, lower rpm limit...

in the end they blew but it was due to knackered bearings allowing ther shaft to hit the wall rather than the "normal" ceramic whell broke/shattered of its own accord


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## creedonsr20det (Aug 6, 2008)

i put the exhaust wheel from the first turbo out the exhaust system(shaft cracked) when i hit the 7900rpm rev limiter in 2nd one night..standard t25s @0.9 bar

Advice:for anybody pushing the stock blowers stay well clear of the limiter

I was lucky that i kept my foot planted!

What happens when you blow your turbos and it destroys your engine is:

the ceramics of the wheels blow into such small pieces that they are sucked down your hardpipes,through the intercooler,then in through your inlet manifold,through the inlet valves(usually bendind then)and then into your block hence why often people often find tiny bits of turbo in the sump!you would however want to have very bad luck for this to happen!

However if you cant afford to buy turbos that are safely designed to run over 1.0bar(stock t25s are not) you definately cant afford an engine rebuild(or new engine in some cases) if the worst does happen..just something to think about!a stitch in time saves nine!


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## frostmotorsport (Aug 10, 2007)

^^ I have stock R33 tubs and reasonably regularly hit 8500rpm. I think it's just a matter of luck tbh!


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

creedonsr20det said:


> i put the exhaust wheel from the first turbo out the exhaust system(shaft cracked) when i hit the 7900rpm rev limiter in 2nd one night..standard t25s @0.9 bar
> 
> Advice:for anybody pushing the stock blowers stay well clear of the limiter
> 
> ...


that's a negative Ghost Rider:

the ceramic wheel is on the exhaust side, so the shattered blades can either go out the tailpipe, or (and this is hotly debated), get sucked backwards through the exhaust manifold into the combustion chamber via the exhaust valves.

I have never heard of intake damage from a blown turbo, as the compressor wheel, being metal, stays in one piece even if the turbo shaft snaps, and the FMIC is a mighty difficult filter to get past!


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## Supergoji (Apr 14, 2007)

you could swap to Z32 stock turbos. with a 3 inch exhaust they can do 1.65 bar of boost. although people tell me they wont last that long at that level. most people in the states on stock turbos do 1.0 bar to 1.25 bar. people in my area though tend to be at 1.25bar haha. they are steel compressor and exhaust wheels so you can crank the boost and not worry about them exploding.


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## markpriorgts-t (May 23, 2004)

are z32 turbos a direct fit i.e waer & oil lines etc...


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## nosman (Sep 6, 2008)

Supergoji said:


> you could swap to Z32 stock turbos. with a 3 inch exhaust they can do 1.65 bar of boost. although people tell me they wont last that long at that level. most people in the states on stock turbos do 1.0 bar to 1.25 bar. people in my area though tend to be at 1.25bar haha. they are steel compressor and exhaust wheels so you can crank the boost and not worry about them exploding.


they will be aluminium compressr wheels, steel exhaust wheels only

Its the oil feed that kills gtr turbos, bearing in mind if you buy a car with say 80,000 miles (it says, lets be honest, most get a haircut over the atlantic) then the turbos have done that mileage too, and so are fairly worn to start with, then the increase in boost exploits the oil starvation problems that are associated particularly with the standard oil supply pipes on GTR's, accelerating the failure point, or speeds up their demise!

increased heat affects the way the exhaust wheels are glued onto the shafts, which will increase the chance of or increase the failure speed, and agian it has been cooked for the life of the engine/car, so wont be at its best

I reckon if you could get new r32/33 turbos, then they would last at higher boost pressures, shown by the 34's being given higher boost, as they arent worn out to start with!!


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## Addicted2Boost (Nov 15, 2007)

nosman said:


> they will be aluminium compressr wheels, steel exhaust wheels only
> 
> Its the oil feed that kills gtr turbos, bearing in mind if you buy a car with say 80,000 miles (it says, lets be honest, most get a haircut over the atlantic) then the turbos have done that mileage too, and so are fairly worn to start with, then the increase in boost exploits the oil starvation problems that are associated particularly with the standard oil supply pipes on GTR's, accelerating the failure point, or speeds up their demise!
> 
> ...



That is a sound logical explaintion, however i dont think so. 

Every manufacturer puts some sort of leeway into their cars, for various reasons (expecting post tune, reliability etc... ). I think most japanese sports cars can tolerate around 30-35% increase in power output (or even more) with just bolt ons, without changing critical components in the car ie. turbos, fuel injectors, core engine components etc, and still remain reliable... and seeing that the R32 and R33 have factory boost levels lower than R34, its reasonable to say that R34 have stronger ceramic turbos rather than it simply being newer? R34 boosted almost 1bar totally stock as opposed to 0.7-0.8 of the earlier models...


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## DrGtr (Jul 18, 2009)

nosman said:


> they will be aluminium compressr wheels, steel exhaust wheels only
> 
> Its the oil feed that kills gtr turbos, bearing in mind if you buy a car with say 80,000 miles (it says, lets be honest, most get a haircut over the atlantic) then the turbos have done that mileage too, and so are fairly worn to start with, then the increase in boost exploits the oil starvation problems that are associated particularly with the standard oil supply pipes on GTR's, accelerating the failure point, or speeds up their demise!
> 
> ...



Just past the 90.000 miles and still going strong factory 1.0 bar
I think its more likely how the engine is maintained, (drive and regular oil change)
As i have read with the people who had problems with these ceramic turbos were overboosted= more head ceramic wheel failed. I dont think that it had to do anything with the oil supply.


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## _dan_ (Jan 24, 2010)

AVC-R set to 1.00. Overshoots to 1.1 sometimes though. Standard R33 turbos. Not had any trouble yet. Done around 9k miles since Feb in it.


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## GOGS 2 (Jun 21, 2009)

a couple of day ago i took my gtr for a thrash and i was hitting 1.1bar:nervous: because of the colder weather. my crap gizzmo boost controller normally runs 1 bar but the boost seems to vary a lot with temperature.

i was half expecting my exhaust to get filled with bits of exploding ceramic turbo. i think im going to turn the boost down a bit for colder temperatures


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## Shoryuken (Jun 20, 2010)

Hmm, I'm thinking about removing the boost restrictor on my R33 GTR to get 1 bar but I'm unsure now because some people said that the boost creeps up to 1.1 bar...

My brother has a Apexi AVC-R. Should I put that in or will it be fine with just removing the boost restrictor?


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## GOGS 2 (Jun 21, 2009)

i think it partly depends on what exhaust you have got fitted. with a decat and a big exhaust it will probally boost spike more than 1 bar with the restrictor removed. but it makes a stock gtr feel so much faster


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## drewzer (Jun 22, 2009)

Apexi AVC-R boost controler failed, hit two bar instanly and car felt like it was plutonium powered! Then two weeks later the exhaust impeler on #2 turbo decided it wanted to see daylight via a trip through the exhaust!!! No other damage done and both turbos were replaced as a precaution.

This has left me waning two bar all the time!!!!!!


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## Shoryuken (Jun 20, 2010)

GOGS 2 said:


> i think it partly depends on what exhaust you have got fitted. with a decat and a big exhaust it will probally boost spike more than 1 bar with the restrictor removed. but it makes a stock gtr feel so much faster


I have a Apexi N1 Evolution cat back with decat pipe and Apexi front pipe...


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## RamRod (Apr 28, 2004)

I've just taken my R32 turbos off and they look good to be honest. They have been run at 0.9bar due to a mines ECU that came with the car when I had it. I can't say when this upgrade was done, but the car is now on 123km's. It has a de-cat and downpipes.

Shaftplay on turbos are within tolerance and there are no cracks in the wastegate ports so probably plenty of nickle in them.


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## steve3961 (Aug 9, 2010)

According to RSP the standard actuators are only good for 1.1- 1.2 bar anyway.

Take the boost controller off and it'll make about .6 bar, x 100% for the electronics is 1.2 bar.


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## MS33 (Jun 27, 2007)

Luckham said:


> Agreed.. Run Ceramics at over a bar, and its a matter of when not if.. As GTST says though I think you can run the R34 ones at around a bar without problems, Strictly 0.8 though for the R32 / R33 ones.
> 
> My advice would be to convert to steel internals, job done for less than 500 quid.


Luckham, what company's do the conversion?


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## MS33 (Jun 27, 2007)

Question? When the R32 and R33 GTR's were made, were they built and designed with 1 bar as std?

Was the restrictor only fitted because of the gentlemens agreement with the Japanese government of keeping bhp under 300hp?


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## GOGS 2 (Jun 21, 2009)

the boost restrictor was fitted to limt power gentlemens agreement. nissan even marked the pipe with a yellow band to make it easier for the owner to find and remove it.

im pretty sure the airflow meters notice the extra air flow and adjust the fueling for the higher boost. they run a bit to rich with the standard ecu at 1 bar. i reckon the gtr were designed to run 1bar i think its just old age, overboosting and high revs that kills the turbos


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## MS33 (Jun 27, 2007)

GOGS 2 said:


> the boost restrictor was fitted to limt power gentlemens agreement. nissan even marked the pipe with a yellow band to make it easier for the owner to find and remove it.
> 
> im pretty sure the airflow meters notice the extra air flow and adjust the fueling for the higher boost. they run a bit to rich with the standard ecu at 1 bar. i reckon the gtr were designed to run 1bar i think its just old age, overboosting and high revs that kills the turbos


I agree with you, I can't see Nissan designing the engine and turbo's to run at 1 bar boost and then not being able to do so!


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## Huskyman (Feb 9, 2010)

Ok sorry to go over previous posts, but when the throttle is closed the engine becomes a vacuum pump, and scavenges exhaust gasses back into the cylinder, so is this the effect that pulls the shattered turbine blades into the engine through the exhaust valves?


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## T.F.S. (Feb 5, 2004)

Correct


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## doc83 (Mar 8, 2012)

sometimes hit 1.3 but don't redline it ... no problems yet


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

Idling and lifting causes a vacum.

I ran 1.4-1.5 bar of boost though stock R33 GTR turbos for quite some time, no problems. Even hammered round a track with them. Then switched to R34 GTR turbos (due to a miss-diagnoses). On the very first test run after fitting them, I boosted 1.2-1.3 bar and destroyed the rear almost instantly. Left a cloud of black smoke along the dual carriage way 1/4 mile long and a very confused golf driver behind me.

In fact, the car was running 1.4 bar of boost prior to my ownership, since the previous owner fitted a de-cat and 3 inch exhaust system. So the standard boost solenoid was incapable of limiting the boost. It was only when I fitted an HKS boost controller that I could see exactly what it was boosting too. I new I was over boosting since the standard gauge was off the reading.

Long and short of it is, don't over boost. The only way you will know if they can handle the boost is when you ask them to boost and you won't get any warning. If they can't take it, you potentially can kiss goodbye to your head and the cylinders because it's likely you'll lift and suck all the crap back in through the manifold. That rubbish will then, in turn, more than likely be squashed between the valves and seats, squish area of the head and piston crown, cylinder bores everywhere!

I know i'm repeating what others have said on here and it doesn't always work out like this but I think this needs to be reinforced. The money that you end up spending on a rebuild or another engine could have been put towards a lovely, reliable, setup that will boost all day long on or off track. If I could do one thing different to what I have done, I would have heeded peoples advice, stopped reading the posts about what boost can I get from stock turbos and started researching the different options for upgraded turbos instead.

Here's a couple of pictures so you can see what carnage can be done...

*Notice the pit marks in the squish area:*









*Cylinder 5, scoring on the exhaust side of the cylinder bore:*









Piston 5, debris on the crown:


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## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

Sorry but,
preaching to the converted sucks !
Told you so wont cut it either.
Pay attention folks, it can get V expensive !
cheers cokey


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

cokey said:


> Sorry but,
> preaching to the converted sucks !
> Told you so wont cut it either.
> Pay attention folks, it can get V expensive !
> cheers cokey


Well put cokey. 'Could have', 'Should have' and 'Would have' are all too late.


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## rbs14.54x4 (Aug 8, 2011)

markpriorgts-t said:


> ran mine @ just on 1 bar never did find that exhaust wheel lol


Lol I've seen one fly out the back of an mr2 before


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## R322 (Mar 21, 2012)

TheD there are dufferent opinions on this. What boost do you recommend to make the car safe on R32 stock turbos and R34 stock turbos? I reckon 0.8 bar on R32 stocks, and 1 bar on R34 stocks, but is that too low/safe?


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## _dan_ (Jan 24, 2010)

My R33GTR has been running 1.1bar on stock turbos for the last 33,000 miles I've owned it, they were on lower before I think, maybe 0.9bar, I reckon they are just beginning to give it up now at 96,000 miles.


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

1.1bar on r34 GTR turbos, going to turn it up to just short of 1.2 bar soon (17psi) now that I've got an upgraded FMIC.
Currently making 375awhp


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

R322 said:


> TheD there are dufferent opinions on this. What boost do you recommend to make the car safe on R32 stock turbos and R34 stock turbos? I reckon 0.8 bar on R32 stocks, and 1 bar on R34 stocks, but is that too low/safe?


1 bar is acceptable on all but that doesn't mean they won't shatter the ceramics. Its more to do with the condition of the turbo. Any play will result in vibration upon spin up. When that vibration is transmitted through to the ceramic, kiss the exhaust wheel goodbye.

From experience, I don't push them past 1 bar.

I'll say it again. On my first engine, I was running R33 GTR turbos at 1.5 bar, everyday... I changed these turbos out (needlessly) for R34 ones. The first time boost reached around 1.3 bar, they went poooooooof. Instantly. No warning, no getting a few miles under your belt, nothing.


DON'T PLAY TURBO LOTTERY

Again, as I have said, you will more than likely lift (through sheer instinct) and then that not only your turbos gone but your engine too.

So, you'll be looking at £2000 to put your car back to pretty much standard working order.

OR

Spend less than that on a nice set of Garret 2860s and an ECU like an Apexi Power FC and take it to a shop and get it tuned to handle the power all day long.


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## Sidious (Jul 14, 2006)

TheD said:


> DON'T PLAY TURBO LOTTERY
> 
> Again, as I have said, you will more than likely lift (through sheer instinct) and then that not only your turbos gone but your engine too.
> 
> ...


A set of new GT2860's is £1700 alone, then there is ECU which costs £500 + mapping fees.

So you'll have similar sort of power as stock twins, but with the extra lag.

You pay your money and make your choice at the end of the day.


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## TheD (Aug 25, 2008)

Sidious said:


> A set of new GT2860's is £1700 alone, then there is ECU which costs £500 + mapping fees.
> 
> So you'll have similar sort of power as stock twins, but with the extra lag.
> 
> You pay your money and make your choice at the end of the day.


No such thing as cheap power... Next step up is considerably more isn't it... But you fail to say that. 
Do you know what. Sod it. Go ahead. Run 1.2/1.3 bar of boost through standards. I dot care. Not my engine. You want to reliably run above 1 bar... Besides your statements a bit sweeping about 2860s, as I'm sure you realise but aren't letting on...


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## KamikazePlayboy (Jun 27, 2018)

i need me some boost


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