# Maybe time for a change but.......



## P3RV3RT (Aug 2, 2005)

Ok guys I'm in a predicament at the mo........

I've been collecting/buying parts for my current R32 GTR to up the performance and condition allround. My aim was a very well sorted R32 GTR with a carefully choosen spec.

Now I'm in the position where I need to spend big to get the final parts, in total I'm looking at £3000 for the parts and then further money to get all the work done.
Also the car isnt running at the mo due to common rear turbo failure.

Now heres the problem....

I'm after a 911 this year and I have spotted one I'd like. Do I sell the R32 GTR and all the parts and just go with the 911. 
Its been a dream of mine to own a 911 and in the past few years I said I'd have one by the time I'm 30, that will be September this year.

or do I

Carry on spending lots of money on the R32 GTR knowning that I wont realy see any of the money back later in the year when I realy do have to sell it to get a 911.

Baz


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## MrGT (Jul 6, 2009)

put some secondhand turbo's on it and sell it. then sell all the bits youve saved up.
if you are deffinatly buying a 911 then there is no point spending more money on your 32 (or a least dont spend more than is needed to get it on the road and sold)

i to will own a 911 at some point which 911 are you after?

Tib


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Only you can decide that mate.
When I drove a 911 I was very disappointed with how it handled and couldnt adjust to it!

What sort of power would the Gtr end up with?


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm kinda in the same boat as you, I want a 996 Carrara 4 manual or a 996 Carrera S but I've got one track gtr that I drive on the street and one R32 rolling and a sh*te load off parts. 
But I'm selling up and just getting the Porsche and be done with all the tuning etc...I hope...Or at least until I get the bug again :nervous:


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## JapFreak786 (Aug 29, 2003)

If I were you,go and test drive a 911 and see is it something you really want,if you wanted to get one when your 30,acheiving that goal is quite something mentally IMO,I recently managed to hit a target I set myself a few year's back,wanted an R34 GTR at 24,and I did it


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

I love 911's. First test drive was in a last-of-line 996 C2S and it was a great car only spoiled by the tiptronic gearbox. Had the chance to rag a mates 997 manual C2S the other week and have to say it was awesome!! 
What sort of 911 are you looking at?? Normal, S or GT series car??

Just don't mention 911's to the R35 lot...according to them, it's the worst car ever built LOL...They'll have you convinced the R35 is the second coming of Christ and demand you buy one to replace your R32..:chairshot

IMHO life's to short to worry about cars..if it's a 911 you want then find the model you fancy, test it then buy it...

TT


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

911's are great cars, no other car gives you a 40 year manufacturing range:chuckle:


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

If you are going for a 911 only consider the turbo, the rest of the derivative 911s are disappointing, I have been there done that..... generally not my cuppa tea, but only the turbo are worthy enough. 996s are good value these days, put a couple of K24 turbos in them and you'll be talking 550ish horses and some tail slides. But believe me, the GTRs are more fun. :thumbsup:


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Aren't the turbo variants less reliable? And very peaky in hp delivery?
I've driven lots off different Porsche 911's but never a never a newer variant off the turbo. Only a 930 turbo up untill now and let just say it sits in the "old car" bracket for me


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

I had some thoughts about 911s a little while back. If it's any help here were some of the views I ended up with:

Air-cooled 911s are the classics cost wise. They represent the best value for (future) resale. People seem to be onto this an 993 prices are considerably higher than 996 prices. I didn't look at the older air-cooled cars. I'm too scared of their (older) rear suspension design to consider one for an all weathers car.

996s are cheap but apparently have a number of issues (like RMS failure). The impression I got was generally the cheaper ones are quite dicey. Like a GTR engine problems are expensive to fix. I have some Porsche owning friends and their servicing costs make my eyes water. I get the impression that the 996 (Carrera) is the unloved child and had issues which took until the 997 to solve.

The 996 Carreras also aren't that powerful. Working on the assumption that I always want a 'step up' they don't seem to fit the bill. There are some US made supercharger kits which seem to fit the shortfall but... 

996 Turbos have a different engine and are much more reliable. If costs allowed this seemed the 996 to get (GTx cars aside).

997s are nice!


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

So what your saying is don't bother with a 996 unless its a 996 GT2 or 3 or a turbo right?
And the Carrera S models aren't those equipped with the revised engine aswell?


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

had a Carrera 4S for a bit, wasn't impressed with it tbh. Had a German import LHD 996 Turbo S which was pretty impressive. I like the 993 Turbo S more, but their prices are going through the roof, hence the 996 is a more ideal choice considering the prices. If you can find a reasonably priced 996 GT2 that will be by far the best choice of them all.


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

There's a lovely 996 GT3 for sale localy here but I suspect is was used as a clubracer and it's on it's second engine (200000km :runaway: and new engine has 70000km) and all that for 30000euro...sounds any good ?

Porsche 911/996 GT3 360 pk - Te koop | 2dehands.be


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

freakazoid3 said:


> So what your saying is don't bother with a 996 unless its a 996 GT2 or 3 or a turbo right?
> And the Carrera S models aren't those equipped with the revised engine aswell?


That was pretty much the impression I got. If you want to know more google RMS failure (Rear Main Seal). It may well be that the true extent of the problem is over stated (that would never happen on the internet!) but the fear seems to be enough to knacker their prices.

AFAIK all of the 'normal' cars have the same problem. The GTs and Turbos use a different base engine which seems much stronger.

To my mind the 996 Turbo is the one to go for, it has the performance to match the price.

A nice 993 also looks to be a good investment though with the price seemingly close to the 996 Turbo I think I'd still go with the Turbo.

NB - I didn't look into the Turbo/993 side of things very carefully. I was looking at 996 Carreras around the £13-15k bracket and (for me) they just seemed to be too much of a question mark. I'm sure if you spent more you'd get an excellent car but once you're closer to £20k and then things like this come onto the radar - Autofficina : Maserati 4200 GT Coupe


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

No thanks no Maserati's for me, I worked on those things for a living up untill a few weeks ago and if you want to get dryshafted...get a Ferrari or Maserati...Believe me NEVER buy one :thumbsup:

A 996 turbo sounds intesting, and yes I like the 993 to but it seems a bit "old" and I think the difference overall is to big compared to the 996 so the newer one would be my first choice


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Would love one of those Maserati Gran Turismo ones, the sound is amazing. Maserati is made by Ferrari I thought.


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Nope Ferrari bough Maserati when they went bust and they stole their V8 engine design and now everyone thinks ferrari came up with it 
Their GT is stunning to drive, but it still breaks as often as they used to and parts are just plain stupid expensive! So stay clear to own one although the drive is absolutely stunning :thumbsup:


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## Miguel - Newera (Sep 18, 2003)

Classic 911 Turbo's are also nice. I used to borrow my uncle's 1987 3.3 to get around in the States when I visited in the past. Lovely car to drive. Sounds gorgeous with that air cooled engine and handles beautifully (I never found the rear end to be too wayward, car slid beautifully & controllably). Plenty of torque & quick enough too. 

Might be hard finding a good one nowadays, but they're pretty much depreciation proof if they're nice & original. 


A cousin has a 996 Carrera tiptronic which I drove when new some years ago. Didn't much like the gearbox, but the rest was nice enough. Would still prefer the original 911 turbo though 

Maybe also look at 964 turbos. Apparently they're excellent too. But whatever you decide on, ideally you should be very adept at spannering yourself, or it'll cost a fair bit in maintenance. Air cooled Porsches can develop electrical problems, oil leaks, etc. even if very well looked after. They're cars that need plenty of TLC to be in proper condition.


A 32 will go up in price a fair bit in future too, if it's well looked after...

Tough choice.


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

I'd only want a manual Porsche so no problems there 

And I know the classic Porsches develop their own set of troubles over the years but that's why I'd like a newer one. 993 at least or newer. The 964 has to many manufacturing faults and problems that appear over the years so I defenately ain't getting one off those 
Although they do drive very nice :thumbsup:

And yes 32's will go up in proce but not for a long time to come me thinks, and finding one now still that is absolutely mint and unmolested is ever harder 

Most skyline's over here were trashed in previous lives and rejects from Japan shipped over here so getting a nice, well maintained not overpriced example here isn't easy unfortunately...


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

Porsche Turbo, GT2 and GT3 all use versions of the GT1 Metzger engine. I know a guy that has just sold his 03 plate Turbo X50 which as standard is 450 bhp and bought an Exige. He sold the Porsche in to a trader and I think got £25K for it which to be honest is about £10k less than they are on Pistonheads. Anyway, this guy has always raved about his Turbo until he picked up his Exige. Its a 10 plate 260bhp supercharged and he reckons its awesome, as a drivers car streets ahead of the Porsche.
I was looking at getting a 996 Carrera a couple of years ago but there were so many horror stories with RMS, IMS and cracked liners I ditched the idea. I would have a butchers on this site, Hartech for loads of information before parting with any cash.


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## Eaze (Jun 19, 2009)

Smoked me a Porche off of the port when I picked my car up!


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## Nigel-Power (Dec 16, 2009)

Eaze said:


> Smoked me a Porche off of the port when I picked my car up!


Is your car standard? . Not to boast or anything, but as far as my experience goes, Porsches have only been a rear view mirror image


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

I think to be fair a standard 911 Turbo is going to leave a standard 33/34 GTR for dead.


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## Mini-E (Feb 29, 2008)

Interesing thread:clap:



MMT said:


> Porsche Turbo, GT2 and GT3 all use versions of the GT1 Metzger engine. I know a guy that has just sold his 03 plate Turbo X50 which as standard is 450 bhp and bought an Exige. He sold the Porsche in to a trader and I think got £25K for it which to be honest is about £10k less than they are on Pistonheads. Anyway, this guy has always raved about his Turbo until he picked up his Exige. Its a 10 plate 260bhp supercharged and he reckons its awesome, as a drivers car streets ahead of the Porsche.
> I was looking at getting a 996 Carrera a couple of years ago but there were so many horror stories with RMS, IMS and cracked liners I ditched the idea. I would have a butchers on this site, Hartech for loads of information before parting with any cash.


Im considering changing my r34 soon, top of my list of cars would be either a 911 or an exige S.

I like the 993 turbos and would be one of my first choices across the range, but are making very strong money and are out of my price range, not too gone on 996's unless maybe also turbo, more attainable too than the 993, exige would be far cheaper to run and probably more fun, certainly on track, but the pracitcality is just a little :nervous:


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## Mini-E (Feb 29, 2008)

MMT said:


> I think to be fair a standard 911 Turbo is going to leave a standard 33/34 GTR for dead.


I remember seenin a youtube clip with a 996 turbo vs's a load of japanese cars, vspec r34, RS evo 7, NSX, rx7 i think and one or 2 more...(all standard)

Porsche Turbo won,but only just, very closely followed by the GTR in 2nd and the evo very close behind that, someone much have this clip...?


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

Yea, I've seen it. I've also seen the one with the M5, M3, Ferrari, 911

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turbo and an R34 GTR. The GTR was miles behind and struggling for straight line pace throughout the race...but guess what, it suddenly found a kers button or something on the final straight and overtook them all as if they were stood still. 

Don't get me wrong, I love my R33 GTR but I've driven a few Porsche turbo track days and they're a different animal as standard.


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

Mini-E said:


> Interesing thread:clap:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have been saving for a Porsche Turbo, X50 if possible, just the same as the one he just got rid of. Problem is now, that he is so impressed with the Exige that he's haggled my brain to the point that now I've got to go and have a go in one myself. If you plan doing a few track days the Exige is going to be a better bet all round particularly your wallet. :thumbsup:


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

But as a devided toy/track car the porsche sure is the best way to go right? And it won't depreciate like an exige for example...:nervous:

BTW; Jeremy Clarkson said the Porsche 996 GT3 is THE best Porsche ever and when it was released he also said it was the best car he's driven in the whole year. That must count for something


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

freakazoid3 said:


> But as a devided toy/track car the porsche sure is the best way to go right? And it won't depreciate like an exige for example...:nervous:
> 
> BTW; Jeremy Clarkson said the Porsche 996 GT3 is THE best Porsche ever and when it was released he also said it was the best car he's driven in the whole year. That must count for something


I think the Exige is a far better option from a depreciation point of view. The car I have quoted above cost the guy £40k two years ago so he's lost £15k. It would have been £110k when it was new. Have a look at Exige prices, they still sell for more than 50% of their original cost at similar age. The GT3 is a different matter. This guy was considering one of these as well but for similar money would be looking at something 8 years old. Mind you the GT3 ftom a track point of view has got to be one of the best and seem to hold their money well.


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

I've driven a gt3 before, but only on the street and not the track and they're superb! But a bit harsh for day to day use, but they get alive on the track  
Just like my R32 ... but I want something more alround that isn't a pain to live with if doing a shoprun etc so perhaps I should be looking at a carrera 4s or something or a turbo but I'm not sure about the turbo model either...
Hell don't even know if I want it to be 4x4 or the a hardcore rearwheeldrive killer


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

Well the 4s is the one I was considering initially, it has the widebody and turbo brakes but is the slowest of the range. The 4 wheel drive system is very similar to the R33/34 in that its rear wheel drive until the fronts are needed. Nissan bought, stripped and copied the Porsche 959 which is the forerunner to the 996 911. The 997 has an updated system now. I think for the fun go C2 rear wheel drive and for the power, practicality and security of the Metzger engine go turbo. To be honest there's not a lot of difference In price between the two models 30/35k should get a good example and I reckon the Insurance on the turbo is cheaper for some reason. Remember the turbo is an £120k supercar with under 4 sec 0-60 and under 10 sec 0-100. I think also the figure for 30-70 is something blistering like 1 second. The standard turbo is 420bhp and the X50 has the larger GT2 turbos and is 450bhp. 
Personally I reckon C2 for fun, C4 for looks - there is not much looks better than a rear view and turbo for brutal acceleration.
Nice position to be in though.


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Was thinking the same regarding C2 and C4 but I guess C2 is the way to go 
And yes the turbo is/was a hefty supercar but can they be lived with from day to day without having to stick a new tubby on every 10000miles or so?


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

freakazoid3 said:


> Was thinking the same regarding C2 and C4 but I guess C2 is the way to go
> And yes the turbo is/was a hefty supercar but can they be lived with from day to day without having to stick a new tubby on every 10000miles or so?


I think to be honest the Metzger engined turbo is by far the strongest, I've been following these cars for a number of years and never read about either a turbo or engine letting go. Go have a look on Pistonheads Porsche forum stickies at the top about the 996/7 na engine failures. There have been a few 100k + mile turbo cars sold through the classified and no fears with engines. Biggest cost seems to be rads and A/C condensers through being holed by debris and leaves building up between the two. This can be solved by a mesh protector over the intakes. They also suffer disc corrosion but new discs can be bought and fitted at no more cost than a Skyline. Later models, I think 04 on are even on 2 year service intervals although I would be doing lubrication services more frequently than that. There are loads of guys use them as an every day car.

Edit to add link to Pistonheads Porsche forum CLICK HERE Remember also the turbo is a dry sump engine as well if you're planning any track days.


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## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

Do they rev over 5k mick LOL


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Do they rev over 5k mick LOL


I may be cured now.


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Just seen a GT3 up for sale for cheap here...Might be interested as they will probably be a bit more fun to drive on track then a turbo 
And yes I know wabout the rads, Porsche made a big mistake there as the dirt doesn't have anywhere to go but stay between the rad and aircon rad 

And Yes Andy they rev upto 8000 rpm


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

freakazoid3 said:


> Just seen a GT3 up for sale for cheap here...Might be interested as they will probably be a bit more fun to drive on track then a turbo
> And yes I know wabout the rads, Porsche made a big mistake there as the dirt doesn't have anywhere to go but stay between the rad and aircon rad
> 
> And Yes Andy they rev upto 8000 rpm


If its going to see some track then GT3 all the way. :thumbsup: only thing is its a two seaters whereas the turbo can squeeze two people In the back. I know a guy who has just chopped an 04 GT3 for the latest GT3RS in Grey and Orange, I've got a ride booked next time I see him, so will let you know what its like. There's a company near me in Barlborough who can supply the rads, I've read about quite a few Porsche owners getting them from them and at a really good price. Anyway you obviously know what your looking for and areas to watch out for, so good luck and keep us posted which way you end up going.

The 5k rev was aimed at me because Andy reckons I'm a pussy and don't rev my car high enough.  ****er. :blahblah:


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## SiR33 (Mar 14, 2009)

MMT said:


> If its going to see some track then GT3 all the way. :thumbsup: only thing is its a two seaters whereas the turbo can squeeze two people In the back. I know a guy who has just chopped an 04 GT3 for the latest GT3RS in Grey and Orange, I've got a ride booked next time I see him, so will let you know what its like. There's a company near me in Barlborough who can supply the rads, I've read about quite a few Porsche owners getting them from them and at a really good price. Anyway you obviously know what your looking for and areas to watch out for, so good luck and keep us posted which way you end up going.
> 
> The 5k rev was aimed at me because Andy reckons I'm a pussy and don't rev my car high enough.  ****er. :blahblah:


but you are and you dont mick lol


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

SiR33 said:


> but you are and you dont mick lol


Ouch...don't you start. 

I'll have you know I had my Mrs Mondeo round to the red line on the way back from Scotland this afternoon.  (all 4.5k of it :chuckle

Anyway, I'm booked in with Martin now, taking it down to Cambridge next Sunday, so we'll see who the pussies are when I get it back. :thumbsup:

yours Felix.


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## SiR33 (Mar 14, 2009)

well felix glad your getting it sorted mate


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

SiR33 said:


> well felix glad your getting it sorted mate


Thanks, me too, it'll be 6/7 weeks since this all started so i cant wait to get it back hopefully well sorted. :thumbsup:

Have you been helping Andy take his engine out? :thumbsup:


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## SiR33 (Mar 14, 2009)

MMT said:


> Thanks, me too, it'll be 6/7 weeks since this all started so i cant wait to get it back hopefully well sorted. :thumbsup:
> 
> Have you been helping Andy take his engine out? :thumbsup:


7 weeks bet your well pissed off,iv not had mine for 3 weeks and im fed up.iv not done anything this weekend but watch moto gp and british super bikes think we are doing a bit on it this week:thumbsup:


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## MMT (Nov 10, 2010)

SiR33 said:


> 7 weeks bet your well pissed off,iv not had mine for 3 weeks and im fed up.iv not done anything this weekend but watch moto gp and british super bikes think we are doing a bit on it this week:thumbsup:


Nice one, I'll pop round and give you a hand/get in the way. :thumbsup:

Is the manifold all welded up now? It was tacked together ready the other day when I called round.


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Ah ok, now I get the 5k rev thingie :thumbsup:
Sounds like you guys need to put some more work in your cars...and quick! 
I'm going to take a look at the GT3 soon and hopefully it won't be dissapointing but otherwise it's back to the drawingboard


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