# oil system, baffled sumps, extended sumps blah blah blah



## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

I keep hearing about the RB26 running bearing due to lack of oil. 

Well it seems the lack of oil is due to the oil being stuck in the head. 

MY QUESTION, rather than trying to fix the issue by extended sumps etc, then why not drill out the oil returns to get the oil back in the sump? surely people are masking a problem rather than fixing the issue? 


People fit a head drain, built i have read that the head drain actually makes things worse. I read that on a dyne with a clear tube a certain tunner watched oil blow up the pipe rather than it return. 

So like i say, why not drill out the stock drains?


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## SklyaFett (Oct 18, 2005)

When i build my engine in the next few months i will be getting the oil ways lined up properly from head to block then drilled bigger all the way down. Should fix the problem i hope!


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## danc (Feb 28, 2005)

how much bigger? 

will slight overfilling beyond dipstick max on std sump help, i know it's masking the issue


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

danc said:


> how much bigger?
> 
> will slight overfilling beyond dipstick max on std sump help, i know it's masking the issue


No, your masking the issue again. 

The reason i ask the above questions is because im rebuilding my supra and i asked around on the Supra forum about extending sumps etc. They say over there that you dont need to touch a supra sump. 

So i compare a supra sump v a RB26 sump and there is nothing special going on. So why do we need to extend the skyline sump but not the supra sump?


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

I thought lateral g was the problem with skylines and the requirement for a baffled sump


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Simonh said:


> I thought lateral g was the problem with skylines and the requirement for a baffled sump



And me, but on the supra engine this is not a issue?


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/128104-n...-size-drilling-oil-return-head-drain-mod.html


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

Oil Control In Rb's For Circuit Drag Or Drift - Skylines Australia
Enjoy. This should answer all questions. opcorn:


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

mattysupra said:


> And me, but on the supra engine this is not a issue?


I have always read it as the Skyline with 4wd could pull much higher lateral g than something like the supra hence the requirement.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

Simonh said:


> I have always read it as the Skyline with 4wd could pull much higher lateral g than something like the supra hence the requirement.


In standard form yes. 

But there are some plenty quick 9 / 10 second quarter supra that run stock oil pump and sump. 

Also my Supra was used most weeks on a race track for over 10 years with no oil mods. 

As for the skyline, they run bearings for fun it seems !


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## black bnr32 (Jan 20, 2011)

mattysupra said:


> I keep hearing about the RB26 running bearing due to lack of oil.
> 
> Well it seems the lack of oil is due to the oil being stuck in the head.
> 
> ...


the aftermarket drains are to aid in venting crank case gases, rather than draining oil back to the sump


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## armt350 (Aug 23, 2010)

The 9 second pass supras are not seeing lateral G's, they are seeing longitudinal G's. Also the sump configuration on the motors are completely different. While the walls of the rb26 sump are near verticle minus the 3 small extensions, the supra upper and lower sumps create more of a oval shaped sump (think fishbowl). The designs are completely different and subject themselves to different movement of oil during high lateral g's. On ours the pickup gets starved and the process begins.


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## Mikster (Feb 17, 2006)

Dont bother with all the "home brew" stuff....just dry sump it. Save you money in the long run.


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## Jags (May 20, 2007)

Mikster said:


> Dont bother with all the "home brew" stuff....just dry sump it. Save you money in the long run.


Didn't the group A GTR's use two standard sumps welded together? That's some proper home brew ghetto stuff going on!


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

When I had my engine rebuilt (400 bhp at the hubs), used a standard oil pump (RIPS happy they supply enough oil for their high powered applications) fitted a tomei oil restrictor, opened up the return holes and also have an accusump.....hopefully bearing will be ok........

Cheers,

Mark


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

mattysupra said:


> So like i say, why not drill out the stock drains?


I've never drilled stock drains.

The problem is not with enough area for oil to return, its with blowby trying to go UP the same holes your trying to return oil through.

With very quick circuit cars friends and I have been down the track of big sumps, rear head drains (one even tried an electric pump sucking oil out the rear hrad drain), accusumps etc etc.

Even with the best of all that, when you data log oil pressure in a proper quick car with grip on straights or long courners its shocking whats really going on and no wonder bearings fail over time.

Rob


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> when you data log oil pressure in a proper quick car with grip on straights or long courners its shocking whats really going on and no wonder bearings fail over time.
> 
> Rob


What is going on? what does Data logs show? 

Take Robins 'borg' for instance (by the way, very impressive build robby. spent a couple of days with Robin the other week) 

Anyway, the Borg, it went out on track. Did you data log what was going on with oil pressure? If so had you covered any oil issues? and what did you use? I know he has a accusump but what else have you done to protect the engine?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

mattysupra said:


> What is going on? what does Data logs show?


Sudden loss of oil pressure due to accelleration Gs and cornering Gs.




mattysupra said:


> Anyway, the Borg, it went out on track. Did you data log what was going on with oil pressure? If so had you covered any oil issues? and what did you use? I know he has a accusump but what else have you done to protect the engine?


Yes we data logged it and the Borg had very little lateral grip compared to the cars I was talking about above but we have systems in place if Robin has any G related issues but with any wet sump there is always an element of risk and it will never be as good a dry sump setup.


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## mattysupra (Oct 31, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> Sudden loss of oil pressure due to accelleration Gs and cornering Gs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What does Robins car have, he has accusump. Does he have baffled sump or extended sump maybe? 

If you logged his car and it was fine (as im sure you would not of let it go if it was not) . Im just interested at what was in place for a car on road tyres. Obviously running on slicks etc would be a different ball game.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

When Rob had Robin's "Borg" on the track it only had the standard 17" wheels and street tyres with street brakes, so other that the huge acceleration that monster has (longitudinal G) the lateral G would have been fairly low.

In the build it showed it with RIPS usual extended sump with its extra baffle, and the accusump.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the data on my car looks like on the track with the info the Link G4 puts out.....I am running slicks but they are free S/H ones I get, and are quite narrow, So only about as much grip as a set of 265 semi slicks.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Sub Boy said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing what the data on my car looks like on the track with the info the Link G4 puts out.....I am running slicks but they are free S/H ones I get, and are quite narrow, So only about as much grip as a set of 265 semi slicks.


I think you have one of my earlier extended sumps which don't have the extra oil capacity in front of the diff so yeah make sure you data log and be warned, if your car is quick and has grip, you'll be quite surprised at what you see.


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I think you have one of my earlier extended sumps which don't have the extra oil capacity in front of the diff so yeah make sure you data log and be warned, if your car is quick and has grip, you'll be quite surprised at what you see.


Cheers Rob,
Yeah it is an early version, I did toy with the idea of extending it like your new ones....But never got around to it.
Neville did add some extra baffling in there as well, I won't have buckets of grip on the old NZV8 tyres, So hoping it will be fine. If the data after it's first run of a few laps shows lots of oil surge I will look at adding a accusump or doing a bit more sump work.

....I just wish dry sumping these things was a bit cheaper, It's the AN fittings and hoses that are the killer!


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Sub Boy said:


> I just wish dry sumping these things was a bit cheaper, It's the AN fittings and hoses that are the killer!


You are right, my friends with their track cars have just got to the stage now where they've been chasing their tails with a wet sump for ages and with the power/rpm and how quick these cars are now we're all going dry sump to sort them once and for all.

Here's one I've just finished:


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

Looking Good! I like the P/S idle pulley.
I've kinda stretched my budget to breaking point....I hope I don't need the Dry sump!


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## adamsaiyad (Aug 23, 2006)

i like where the Dti gauge sits lol nice one  ps that engine is a beauty .
And the work shop is something i aspire to maybe one day 
Keep up the good work Rob!!


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## adamsaiyad (Aug 23, 2006)

ps just a thought but maybe the dry sump option isnt that expensive its been discussed in detail some where on the forum Rob fancy giving a kit price for a Dry sump kit conversion excluding shipping for those that want to know the total cost ?


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

Dry sump is quite involved and it is expensive once you do it right with all the right parts you need with it.

What you see in the picture would come in at just over nzd6000 incl sump, pump, pump mount, damper, drive pullies, guides, belt and hoses.


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> I think you have one of my earlier extended sumps which don't have the extra oil capacity in front of the diff so yeah make sure you data log and be warned, if your car is quick and has grip, you'll be quite surprised at what you see.


What's one of your full trick sumps worth?

A little off topic but a RB30 with lowmounts! Yeehar! What are they? HKS 2530's? I hope they ain't RS's!!!


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

The one above has 2530's and I have one here thats all done except finishing the drysump and that has Rs's.

Fully welded sump kits are 750 incl shipping.
If you supply a sump for me to install into its $1000+shipping back and if I supply the 4wd sump and do the whole thing its $1400+shipping back


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

What about if I sent you a sump to turn into a dry sump? no other parts?


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## lofa (Dec 20, 2009)

I have accusump, tomei baffle, extra return from backside of head, valve cover breathing to air/oil divider back to sump, and WS2 powder in my oil.









I think its importent to keep RPM down in lateral Gs, because RPM needs much more oil and then you dry out your sump much faster. 6000RPM make your pump flow ~1liter/second. One thing on my wish list is swinging pickup.

What do you think?


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## Sub Boy (Jan 28, 2008)

I'd be interested how you get on without an extended sump, being you are running on slicks.


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## R.I.P.S NZ (May 7, 2004)

lofa said:


> What do you think?


Your a brave man, be sure to have data logging to see whats really going on.

Rob


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## adamsaiyad (Aug 23, 2006)

I agree there lets see how this turns out as im really interested and it might help settle a few demons some of us might have lurking in the back of the mind


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## adamsaiyad (Aug 23, 2006)

ps i love the polishing of the back of the sump should aid the oil return even quicker back to the sump itself and not the pan part.
Polishing it smooth will help even more get some fine grit water paper and get polishing.


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## Zenki33 (Apr 6, 2014)

R.I.P.S NZ said:


> The one above has 2530's and I have one here thats all done except finishing the drysump and that has Rs's.
> 
> Fully welded sump kits are 750 incl shipping.
> If you supply a sump for me to install into its $1000+shipping back and if I supply the 4wd sump and do the whole thing its $1400+shipping back


How many extra quarts of oil does carry your extended sump kit for weld? I'm looking to get a extended sump, but I want to avoid the Trust one because it seats lower and is a NO NO down here. Does yours seat at the same height of the stock oil pan/sump?


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## brtl (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm searching for more info on drilling out the RB26 oil return galleries in the head and block... with no results  
I can't seem to find an accurate picture of the degree of which you all are enlarging the head and block oil returns. 
Pretty sure you drill them out from to 10mm, which is the same size as the holes in the head gasket ?
I did it on my spare (damged) cylinder head, not sure if this is how it supposed to look like ? 










untouched oil return, for comparison :


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