# Litchfield Big Power Turbo Kit coming soon



## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

We have been asked by a number of customers about what developments we have been working on recently and what 2013 holds. Well, as some will already know, we have been very busy with a number of exciting development projects. A key part of our new product line up is our complete replacement turbo kit.


















Our new kit replaces the GTR’s manifolds, turbos, wastegates and down pipes. It is designed to reach the next level of performance and allow our bigger engine projects to product over 1,000bhp if required 










Our current turbo line up works extremely well but we could see from the data that the standard manifolds are starting to struggle with the high exhaust gas flow needed to produce this type of power. The new manifolds will allow us to install a range of Garrett based turbos using the latest turbine housings and our own billet compressor wheels.


















As a result, during the summer we embarked on a clean sheet design with the help of some of our friends in the WRC and F1 industry. We were lucky enough to have worked with arguably the world’s leading turbo expert who was behind many of Subaru’s WRC victories before moving onto a top role at Cosworth F1 and now with Mercedes F1 as they plan for the turbo era. The fabrication work was expertly produced by one of Prodrive’s chief engineers before he moved onto his new role as the fabricator responsible for exhausts fitted to Kimi Raikkonen’s F1 car that won the Abu Dhabi GP recently 










We looked at various designs but decided that for our needs, the best option would be to retain the ‘Log’ design but with vastly improved transitions and material. The new system is made from a specific grade of Inconel and even the heat shields are made from Titanium. These photos are from one of our early prototype sets which has a few more welds than the finished product. Even so the quality of the craftsmanship is extraordinary and it is a shame to hide it under the final coating. It is so nice that we have ordered an extra set just to keep on display in the office :clap:










The EGT sensor mounts are cast Inconel components straight from the F1 parts department just like the over engineered nuts used on the slip joint. 










Despite its lightweight construction the system is designed to retain over 80% of structural strength at over 1,200 degrees C but we have still fitted additional support braces and a slip joint to absorb the exhaust movement at temperature.










We are also looking at having both compressor covers cast as we did with our Subaru turbos to make the installation even tidier. The system is currently being tested on one of our new Red Top engines and we hope to have production kits available in early 2013 










We should have prices shortly once we have finished some of the small details

Regards

Iain


----------



## *MAGIC* (Oct 21, 2009)

Dont you boys sleep?

Great stuff.


----------



## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

*MAGIC* said:


> Dont you boys sleep?
> 
> Great stuff.


They need to make new bits so Adam has something new to buy  
Has he placed his order yet Iain?


----------



## *MAGIC* (Oct 21, 2009)

barry P. said:


> They need to make new bits so Adam has something new to buy
> Has he placed his order yet Iain?


Adam is a legend.....:clap:


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

*MAGIC* said:


> Adam is a legend.....:clap:


You are just encouraging him... :chuckle:


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

barry P. said:


> They need to make new bits so Adam has something new to buy
> Has he placed his order yet Iain?


I'll give you one guess. 

Or you could look in my project thread and find out the answer for sure.


----------



## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

that looks nice and perfect for syvecs as it has x3 egt sensor mounts per manifold..


----------



## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

Adamantium said:


> I'll give you one guess.
> 
> Or you could look in my project thread and find out the answer for sure.


you will need the syvecs now to make full use of those egt holes.


----------



## Impossible (May 11, 2011)

i dont like it! it makes me want to buy it.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Jm-Imports said:


> you will need the syvecs now to make full use of those egt holes.


Nah - although the thought had crossed my mind.

Re the pretty pictures, anyone think that a titanium heatshield that close to the headers will go blue of its own accord rather than the fake blueing typical of chinese knock offs?


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Iain,

are the downpipes inconel too?


----------



## *MAGIC* (Oct 21, 2009)

CT17 said:


> You are just encouraging him... :chuckle:


Does he really need it.....


----------



## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

Superb stuff. That looks like it's going to flow some serious air! GTX3071r or similar size turbos?


----------



## SamboGrove (Jun 27, 2010)

God dammit, stop making stuff like this! It's just one more thing to add to the list  Make sure you've got one kit left for 2020 when i'll get round to being able to afford it!


----------



## B'have (Dec 28, 2011)

Very neatly packaged, love the wg plumbing.


----------



## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Adam the Downpipes are Inconel as well  The turbo kit is designed to take upto a GT4X on the turbine size but I think it will be restricted to a 82-94mm compressor wheel from a packaging point of view. I'm not looking to run huge turbos on our stuff though.

They will ultimately be ceramic coated but then you can't appreciate the craftmanship.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Iain, be nice if you can offer up a pic comparing the diameter of the external wastegate plumbing to the diameter of the stock wastegate button.


----------



## David (Apr 25, 2003)

Looks really neat, are the billet compressor wheels really lichfeild unique or just garrett GTX units?


----------



## alloy (Apr 29, 2005)

Great job with the development, looks like 2013 us owners are going to have a lot of choice!


----------



## BigKriss (Sep 14, 2012)

Some awesome development here , love to see back to back stock vs your manifold dyno figures..Did not think the std manifold could get restrictive ?


----------



## Sinth (Sep 26, 2010)

How's the spool like on these turbos ? Really want a turbo kit but need oem like turbo spool


----------



## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

David, our compressor wheels have less blades than the GTX and a bit quicker to spool.

They should allow us to change the turbos with the engine left in so I'm planning to work my way up the turbo sizes and compare some of our more popular combinations


----------



## rob wild (Jul 30, 2007)

Looks very nice although as above would like to see the dyno print and a back to back test with one of your stage 4 cars. Also a price would be good but tbh for many of us that would only be the tip of the ice berg i.e. prices for all the supporting mods, i.e. diff's, boxes, engine rebuild and would it still be ok to run on Cobb/ecutek? Almost like a drive in drive out 850hp build price. Although its probably going to be more than the cars worth lol


----------



## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Sinth, this turbo kit is really aimed at the really big power builds and was not designed to replace our current and future Stage 5 700-750bhp packages. I would expect it to out perform our previous kits in like for like spool tests but it will be a expensive way to get a marginal increase over the already very good Stage 5 turbos.


----------



## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Litchfield said:


> it will be a expensive way to get a marginal increase over the already very good Stage 5 turbos.


So it really was aimed squarely at Adam then?


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

hands up those who are planning a fully forged engine?


----------



## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

Adamantium said:


> hands up those who are planning a fully forged engine?


Me! So I will be taking full advantage of this gorgeous setup rather than using it to add a paltry 20-odd hp to an existing build... :chuckle:

Anyway, that's for the future. I want to post about my new "interim" turbos, but waiting for pics from Iain.


----------



## Karls (Jul 12, 2010)

Adamantium said:


> hands up those who are planning a fully forged engine?


Need to organise a fully forged bank account before that!


----------



## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

What are your interim turbos rated, 750bhp?


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

David.Yu said:


> Me! So I will be taking full advantage of this gorgeous setup rather than using it to add a paltry 20-odd hp to an existing build... :chuckle:
> 
> Anyway, that's for the future. I want to post about my new "interim" turbos, but waiting for pics from Iain.


I'll bet you when both our cars are finished we'll be equally happy with the paths we'll have taken.

It will help that I'll also be the moral victor, safe in the knowledge that my path was better.


----------



## KaizerMotor (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm speachless as usual :bowdown1::bowdown1::bowdown1:


----------



## Beedub (Aug 13, 2008)

Good god...... imo..... this will be one of the best available, lichfield are like the UK Ams.... quality, reputation and integrity........ awesome stuff!!


----------



## saucyboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Awesome work Iain :thumbsup: one day ill be able to afford it as an upgrade


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

AMAZING kit! over all the kits, i really like this one the most at this time (tho im in for more information and data when it becomes available). There was a ONE off manifold that i like better, but it wasnt inconel which i really love that about this on top of the design of the rest of it. 

As for the LOG design... im not happy seeing that, but there is a kit thats going to be on the market with the LOG design thats aiming for 1800whp in the usa.. so we will see for sure if its still a log style or not.

the only think i want to see now is a kit like this with 4" downpipes (a full 4" system would be idea to see). iirc another well known brand with most records under its belt, is still using 76mm, but thats NO reason not to go bigger.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I believe the log design was the recommendation of the turbo experts consulted on this project.

I'm sure I also saw an article where mizuno explained why the log was better.


----------



## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

I'd trust the knowledge of the chap who's worked on WRC and F1 cars, if he says log is best for this application it probably is!


----------



## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

As he was clever enough to design a lagless turbo I decided to take his advice  

Mclaren also run a log design on the MP12c. The reality is on a 3 cylinder head with the manifold so close to the turbo the performance of a well designed log or equal length system will be similar. The standard GTR manifold is superb it just doesn't have the capacity to run larger turbo varients.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

So the next question is - can you fit me a lagless turbo on the GTR?


----------



## MattGTR750 (Apr 26, 2012)

I want to keep stock engine and run a turbo set up around 700ish! 

Is there a turbo kit with external wastegate so I can have screamer pipe?


----------



## alloy (Apr 29, 2005)

MattGTR750 said:


> I want to keep stock engine and run a turbo set up around 700ish!
> 
> Is there a turbo kit with external wastegate so I can have screamer pipe?


The Bensopra GTR has stock turbos modified with screamer pipes coming out just behind the front wheels...STREET MENACE: BENSOPRA'S OTHER GT-R - Speedhunters


----------



## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Adamantium said:


> So the next question is - can you fit me a lagless turbo on the GTR?


+1 An 800bhp turbo kit that provides the response and low down torque of the oem turbos would fly off the shelves.


----------



## *MAGIC* (Oct 21, 2009)

alloy said:


> The Bensopra GTR has stock turbos modified with screamer pipes coming out just behind the front wheels...STREET MENACE: BENSOPRA'S OTHER GT-R - Speedhunters


That looks crazy I love the squashed front look :thumbsup:


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

I've been in the car with this technology installed. I promise you, you don't want an 800bhp car with that torque delivery.

You know when you car comes on to boost and you know it's coming and can prepare for it by gripping the steering wheel and holding on tight, usually making sure the car is pointing straight?

Well this gives you that, but immediately when you press the accelerator. Just imagine that every time you press the throttle you instantly have peak torque under your foot.


----------



## MattGTR750 (Apr 26, 2012)

I need that in my life Alloy!!!!


----------



## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

MattGTR750 said:


> I want to keep stock engine and run a turbo set up around 700ish!



When I finally get the pics off Iain (hint, hint!) I will post up about exactly that setup on my car. 

No "screamer pipe" though. What is that and what is it for? Last thing a car that goes on track needs, I suspect...


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

screamer pipe is a dedicate mini exhaust that just connects to the wastegate.

You can guess why it's called a screamer pipe.

If you look at Iain's pics and imagine not rejoining the wastegate exhaust back in to the main downpipe, you would have screamer pipe.

Short, and unsilenced, they have a habit of exiting through the bonnet, out the bottom of the car or the side and they very much like to spit two feet of flames!


----------



## willgts (Jul 17, 2004)

I had one on my GTS-T, I will try and dig the video out...


----------



## willgts (Jul 17, 2004)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgDRqabCuCs

Not sure if that has worked.

But as Adam said, it is a seperate exhaust pipe that is purely for the wastegate. So it does nothing until the wastegate opens and then it SCREAMS - hence the name. Scared alot of poor pedestrians, cyclists etc with that!

Excuse the nonsense being spoken at the beginning of the vid :chuckle:


----------



## DarrenA (Aug 15, 2012)

Litchfield said:


> Sinth, this turbo kit is really aimed at the really big power builds and was not designed to replace our current and future Stage 5 700-750bhp packages. I would expect it to out perform our previous kits in like for like spool tests but it will be a expensive way to get a marginal increase over the already very good Stage 5 turbos.


Iain 
So what's the benefits for the mortals amongst us just looking for eventual 750-800 bhp? Are there any or is this just huge power only?.....regardless I find myself wanting it anyway but would like to know...


----------



## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Darren, for the 750-800bhp turbos I don't think there will be much of a performance advantage over our current Stage 5 turbos which work very well.


----------



## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

But a 750-800bhp turbo kit should spool better with this setup and be less stressful on the engine?

Mods, any way you can block me reading this thread? It's not going to be good for my wallet.


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

Anders_R35 said:


> But a 750-800bhp turbo kit should spool better with this setup and be less stressful on the engine?
> 
> Mods, any way you can block me reading this thread? It's not going to be good for my wallet.


Lol, its funny looking at Adam - can you believe I was MUCH worse than him a few years back.

Now, I seem to be able to just sit and wait and watch, and eventually cherry pick the best bits, where I used to be the very first for everything, doing an awful lot of development.

Must be old age as now I can read this stuff easily and just shrug, where just 3 or 4 years ago I would be in a tuning race with Adam!

Not sure how that happened, but THANK GOD IT DID!


----------



## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Blade said:


> Lol, its funny looking at Adam - can you believe I was MUCH worse than him a few years back.
> 
> Now, I seem to be able to just sit and wait and watch, and eventually cherry pick the best bits, where I used to be the very first for everything, doing an awful lot of development.
> 
> ...


Hard to believe anyone could match Adam's OMD (obsessive mod disorder). But this kit will be difficult to resist, it looks so well engineered.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Blade said:


> Lol, its funny looking at Adam - can you believe I was MUCH worse than him a few years back.
> 
> Now, I seem to be able to just sit and wait and watch, and eventually cherry pick the best bits, where I used to be the very first for everything, doing an awful lot of development.
> 
> ...


Tony,

Just seen this!

I don't think you were ever worse than me, if you can dig up my 22B modification thread you'd see. I was one of the first to put close deck a 2.5 block in the subaru. One of the first to get well into the 500+ bhp category. I was always on the bleeding edge. That's what cost me.

I don't feel that is the case here.

In the past, I'd have towed my car and turbo to a fabricator and got them to build a one off system to fit in my car. Here, Iain's done that bit for me. Just like with everything else, he'll have done the testing for me.

In the past I was on the bleeding edge, now it's Iain on the bleeding edge doing the R and D, and after he's happy to release a product, I decide if it's for me. Mostly these things are well thought out, well researched and well designed. Add all that together, and how can I say no?


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

Adamantium said:


> Tony,
> 
> Just seen this!
> 
> ...


Sorry chief, I have a long list of bleeding edge developments on the at least 5 cars including developing a race car from scratch. Jeez, I EVEN DESIGNED AND MANUFACTURED WHEELS FROM BILLET!!


----------



## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

and Tony wins


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Tony only wins because he's richer and therefore measures his bleeding edge development in money.

If we measure wasted money and time on modding as a proportion of net worth, he doesn't even come close.


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

Think you'll lose that one again! Remember I was skint when I was tuning


----------



## Alexinphuket (Jan 25, 2012)

Iain is this the same prototype I saw in your office when I brought the car for service? Welding looked great, nice piece of engineering! 

P.s. waiting for email


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Blade said:


> Think you'll lose that one again! Remember I was skint when I was tuning


Nah, I think you're making that up.


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

Adam - we can't turn this into a "My tuning obsession is bigger than yours"....

But... just ask Iain about all the Mugen stuff I got for the Type R. Combined with everything else it cost as much as the car, and even Iain didn't realise that I had ordered it BEFORE I had even got the car.

Yup. Now that's really bad. I am cured now (unlike you). 

I won't spoil your thread with it here, I'll email you a chronology. We'll work it out off-line. Whoever we agree is worse we'll before just post on here the "winner" - though I feel the winner is really the loser!


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

You might be right.

I quite like my obsession though, I don't want to get over it.

But, best fun for me was retrofitting all the missing oem options into my slk. I did it all myself, sourcing bits from ebay etc making looms, reprogramming to recognise eve functions. Much more fun than buying aftermarket bits and leaving it for other people to do the work.


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

Adamantium said:


> You might be right.
> 
> I quite like my obsession though, I don't want to get over it.
> 
> But, best fun for me was retrofitting all the missing oem options into my slk. I did it all myself, sourcing bits from ebay etc making looms, reprogramming to recognise eve functions. Much more fun than buying aftermarket bits and leaving it for other people to do the work.


You have mail!!!


----------



## Impossible (May 11, 2011)

Blade, Adam you guys sound like megalomaniacs. You have to 
win at everything, even if its failing you have to fail more then your rival. In your case obsession. lol


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

Impossible said:


> Blade, Adam you guys sound like megalomaniacs. You have to
> win at everything, even if its failing you have to fail more then your rival. In your case obsession. lol


Lol, you may be right! Adam is very much a kindred spirit. I am on a forced hiatus from major tuning thanks to business growth, house renovation ( another form of tuning ) and a vicious tax man. I am working my way back though.

Still if you think tuning is bad, you want to try racing and race car development. Now that's scary!


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Ok everyone reading, I have an announcement to make.

I slowly read through the abridged version of Tony's car modding history and after careful deliberation I realised about 8 cars in that he trounces me. The email then went on for about another 20 cars.

I might actually have modded more cars than him but the level of modding and bleeding edge experience was on a different planet in all cases. My 22b project while substantial is equivalent to changing a y-pipe compared with sone if his.

So I have to claim the victory of admitting I've been beaten. Having said that I'm 100% certain that had I "won" he'd have no problem doing the same with humility. 

From what i read Tony, I'm glad you are cured (which you aren't yet by the way). If I'd done what you have my parents would have disowned me and my wife definitely left me - at times it feels like it's been close even at my relatively pathetic level of obsession.


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

A true gent, though to be fair I have a few years on you so you can still catch up and overtake!

I realised I completely missed out the massive mods on the supercharged E92 in my rumblings last night and about another 10 cars... LOL

I have to say you are right on the not being cured part. Just like a reformed alcoholic really... One mod away from falling off the wagon!!


----------



## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Usually I'd suggest you both seek help.

But given I have an early but mild case of this condition, I'm actually using the pair of you as a case study of where I may end up.


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

charles charlie said:


> Usually I'd suggest you both seek help.
> 
> But given I have an early but mild case of this condition, I'm actually using the pair of you as a case study of where I may end up.


The only help is the natural decline of cars, rising cost of fuel, the collapsing economy and increasingly diminished ability to drive anywhere fast.

Give it a few years and we will be in zero emission electric GTRs with electronic sped limiters, GPS tracking by the government and silent exhausts!


----------



## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

It is extremely rude of you (Blade) to not start a stand alone thread with all this modding history so that the likes of myself who is virtually on the tipping point of throwing a huge sum of money at litchfields might at a minimum think 'you know what at least I'm not as bad as Blade' or at least be able to somehow justify my spend as rational in comparison  (plus I just like a good read)

Have to say I love reading Adam's thread more so than any of the big power ones, I think it's purely because it resonates with what I might be able to achieve plus he's clearly bonkers which is always entertaining


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

bobel said:


> It is extremely rude of you (Blade) to not start a stand alone thread with all this modding history so that the likes of myself who is virtually on the tipping point of throwing a huge sum of money at litchfields might at a minimum think 'you know what at least I'm not as bad as Blade' or at least be able to somehow justify my spend as rational in comparison  (plus I just like a good read)
> 
> Have to say I love reading Adam's thread more so than any of the big power ones, I think it's purely because it resonates with what I might be able to achieve plus he's clearly bonkers which is always entertaining


I can do, but its not gtr specific and I don't want to look like I'm bragging. Maybe it can be a who is the sickest thread?

Ok, I'll do it! Will take quite some time....


----------



## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

Blade said:


> I can do, but its not gtr specific and I don't want to look like I'm bragging. Maybe it can be a who is the sickest thread?
> 
> Ok, I'll do it! Will take quite some time....


Awh don't worry about it being GTR specific, just say BOBEL made me do it! Thanks a million always love reading a good car history!


----------



## sw20GTS (Jul 29, 2010)

Blade said:


> I can do, but its not gtr specific and I don't want to look like I'm bragging. Maybe it can be a who is the sickest thread?
> 
> Ok, I'll do it! Will take quite some time....


Yes, I'm interested as well! Always like to read about proper modified cars


----------



## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Awesome as always Iain - and I was simply looking forward to EcuTEK map upgrade! BTW my car will be wrap free and shiny paint again in two weeks so will try to upload that map - Windows 8 has broken the software by the way so I am looking for a spare laptop to shove software onto pro tem to get latest map onto car.

Adam - may I have first dibs on your 'old' turbos if you fancy getting rid when you go for Iain's shiny new ones ;-) or anyone else for that matter.


----------



## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

Iain, I spotted the turbo kit in the pics has large turbo inlet. Are all the turbos coming with that size inlet, or will the 800bhp kit use 2.5" inlet?


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

I can confirm my addiction is being fuelled today by a "pusher" from Gloucester, with the initials I.L

Does anyone remember Nick-O-Teen?


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Must say, it's nice to see so many other addicts. I feel less alone everyday.

Not sure you should encourage blade to put up his car history, Cem would need to pay for some serkious additional web storage.


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

lian, log design vs other design... i have only information which other vendors share... its possibly just marketing, i dunno.

i know that there are at least 3 designs that use a log style cast design in the united states. they all offer 1000+whp on low reading mustang dynos. knowing that you use a syvecs and have data that shows your choice is good including a professional f1/wrc fabricator solidified the design is solid.

so im still confused why others who have other designs recommend other designs over the log style? you don't need to answer that as i don't feel you need to, i think both will work.... could you share any pros and cons of each system maybe (again im just sharing what im thinking and don't require any answer on this but would love to hear more).

either way i love the fact its using inconel the most. would you offer a cheaper material foe those looking for an affordable alternative? a cast version in quantity would be less over time and a ss version would be cost effective in lower quantities (is this correct)?

what's the estimated time you suspect to do street/track testing/tuning? im eagerly awaiting another ring trip video from you guys on this system!


----------



## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

mindlessoath said:


> lian, log design vs other design... i have only information which other vendors share... its possibly just marketing, i dunno.
> 
> i know that there are at least 3 designs that use a log style cast design in the united states. they all offer 1000+whp on low reading mustang dynos. knowing that you use a syvecs and have data that shows your choice is good including a professional f1/wrc fabricator solidified the design is solid.
> 
> so im still confused why others who have other designs recommend other designs over the log style? you don't need to answer that as i don't feel you need to, i think both will work.... could you share any pros and cons of each system maybe (again im just sharing what im thinking and don't require any answer on this but would love to hear more).


I have spent many years tuning Supras, for them the log design manifold is a huge restriction when you want to go past 600 BHP, they was also linked to high EGT's, nobody ever uses them anymore, the only bonus I can see with going for a log design is they are cheap and easy to make, also the log design will give more room in the bay.

Tubular manifolds have always given far better results, exhaust gasses fighting to get past each other to get to the turbo don't seem a great to myself.


----------



## Johnny G (Aug 10, 2012)

I was thinking about this the other day, Jamie. All I can think of is that a log on a V6 would be very different to a log on a I6? 3 ports either side, a bit more space to work with... Tubulars both sides WILL flow more, but the limit might be higher with the log because of the engine design?
What you think?


----------



## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

Johnny G said:


> I was thinking about this the other day, Jamie. All I can think of is that a log on a V6 would be very different to a log on a I6? 3 ports either side, a bit more space to work with... Tubulars both sides WILL flow more, but the limit might be higher with the log because of the engine design?
> What you think?


I thought about that also mate, but on a supra the turbo sits in the middle of the log manifold, this setup is at one end so IMO it will be the same restriction, I honestly can't see the F1 technology in a log manifold, good sales pitch though


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

JamieP said:


> I thought about that also mate, but on a supra the turbo sits in the middle of the log manifold, this setup is at one end so IMO it will be the same restriction, I honestly can't see the F1 technology in a log manifold, good sales pitch though


As the stock manifold is a log, and happily does 800+ and other designs in the US are 1000+ with a log, how would the log be a restriction in this case?

I can't see how it is price due to the use of Inconel. 

Appreciate your experiences with a Supra, but this isn't a Supra and Litchfields do have the F1 connection, and are well known for doing extensive R&D before releasing parts, and that said parts are well proven.

I think it is a bit unfair to call it a cheap item and a nice sales pitch.


----------



## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

Sorry, was just my opinion, restrictive parts can still make good power if pushed, but you will make more power at less strain with unrestrictive parts, I've had a couple of beers, maybe I should keep my thoughts to myself in future, reading it back it does sound a bit harsh.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

Jamie,

Have to say normally I'd agree with you but I've met the guy who said to go for the log design and when I meet someone cleverer contradicting him I might question it. At the mo, I'm not sure a cleverer person exists, never.mind someone with his expertise in the field of turbos.

There's a lot more to consider than it doesn't work on a supra where two sets of directionally opposing gas flows meet in the middle and then feed a turbo. We have two sets of three exhaust ports smoothly flowing in to one another in a complimentary direction.


----------



## Blade (Feb 12, 2003)

One thing I've experienced with tubular turbo manifolds is invariably, they crack. Between the expansion due to heat and the vibration from the harsh engine environment. I'm not just talking about cracks at the welds either!


----------



## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

mindlessoath said:


> either way i love the fact its using inconel the most. would you offer a cheaper material foe those looking for an affordable alternative? a cast version in quantity would be less over time and a ss version would be cost effective in lower quantities (is this correct)?


I think you'll be pleasantly surprised on the cost, if Iain keeps pricing the ball park mentioned to me on the phone a few days ago.

Jamie, have you seen the size of the internal wastegate on stock turbos? I think you mentioned you could hear gases rushing through them when Ryan turned up the boost on his built engine. With this design, that restriction is gone.


----------



## JamieP (Jun 5, 2006)

I just wrote a lengthy reply but decided to delete it before I get myself in trouble  I'm out.



Blade said:


> One thing I've experienced with tubular turbo manifolds is invariably, they crack. Between the expansion due to heat and the vibration from the harsh engine environment. I'm not just talking about cracks at the welds either!


Cheaply made, poorly designed ones can, I've ran tubular manifolds at 10's of thousands of miles on my own 1200+ BHP car without issue.


----------



## Corsa1 (Sep 8, 2003)

A log manifold works best when the turbo is so close to the ports a tubular one only works when they are all the same length which not many are.


----------



## ACspeedtech (Aug 25, 2011)

Also out  and not the place to start an essay on turbo manifold tech here.

Anyone else seen Honda's new twin turbo V6 motor with the turbos bolted directly to a huge flange on the side of the heads? Won the LMP2 class at the LM24H:
Honda LMP2 turbo motor

To add... Major difference between 'log' and 'short runner' in my opinion


----------



## fahod (Dec 9, 2012)

how much the price for this kit 

coz relly it is very nice kit


----------



## changster (Oct 6, 2012)

Litchfield will definitely have to address the log vs equal length tubular question for this engine, i.e tell people the real reasoning behind the choice and not just "The really smart F1 turbo guy said so." The choice in materials are great and a step up from the competition. However, materials alone will not buy performance. Yes it's great the headers are made from Inconel and the heat shield from titanium. That makes things lighter and possibly the header stronger and longer lasting. However that does not mean it will perform better. They key is the manifold design versus the competitors and why that particular log design will perform better. In theory and in fact.


----------



## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

one other vendor just did 1500whp on the log style. others with non log style often have to say they are better to stand by their choice and their product. looks like results can be had with both designs.


----------



## Litchfield (Feb 26, 2008)

Sorry for my late reply but we’re currently Exhibiting at the Autosport show (with the Manifolds on display) so I don’t have much time to check the Forums at the moment.

The choice of manifold is not as simple as say x is better than y as there are so many variables to consider. Our log design was not chosen because it is inheritably better than an equal length design. If you were revving the engine really high and have a long manifold run (and the space to implement it properly) and want to extract every last drop of power then an equal length design would be theoretically better.

However we are not looking to rev the car past 8,000rpm, the manifold length is incredibly short, it on a V6 and with the tight packaging constraints involved in the GTR engine bay it means it would be more difficult to tune an equal length design properly only to find it made no real difference in our application. A similar theoretical argument (the one that Nissan and Mclaren would use) says that a short manifold length would benefit from a log design as it helps scavenge the cylinders better.

We’re aware of the potential for cracking on a welded manifold and this is why we have used this choice of material, thickness, extra support panels and flexible joints to remove as much of the risk as possible. It is of cause being tested and checked on our car first  

The original post was to show what we were working on because we were proud of what we have produced and the calibre of the people involved in its creation. I hope it did not come across as over hyped. Once we have finished our testing we’ll have more data which we hope will support our choices.

Regards

Iain


----------



## Ja5on (Nov 18, 2009)

Awesome work Iain


----------

