# 4 Wheel Steering...does it work?



## fatjap44 (Nov 25, 2003)

Hi ppl....the 4 wheel steering on my r33 gtst...when does it work ??....should i be able to see the wheels move when parking ..at slow speed?...what checks can i do ?.(fuses etc).. just not sure its working

fatjap44


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## GTES-t (Dec 12, 2003)

The rear steering is not something that can be seen really. If I recall correctly, it only steers to a maximum of 7 degrees. It is designed to sense traction loss when cornering and steers the rear end a bit into the direction it's sliding in to regain traction.

The only way I know to see if it's working is to try to drift it. If it's working properly it'll drive you right into the curb. Drifting and Hicas don't mix.

I don't know the actual test/s, I'm sure someone will follow up with the correct way to find out.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

GTES-t said:


> *Drifting and Hicas don't mix.
> *


Really?


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## BBD (May 30, 2002)

I forgot which car it was but something small it had AWD steering and (when the car is parked) you could actualy see the rear wheels steer.... this is not the case with the GTR, the steering is so small and controlled by all the Hicas sensors, it wont work if your just parked up a cerb but you can certainly feel it when cornering hard.


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## Chris Bassett (May 14, 2002)

*7 degrees?*

Sure its not 1 degree?


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

BBD...thinking of a Honda Prelude? Or maybe a Mazda Xedos? Those things a freaky to see driving through traffic!!

I believe its more like +/- 1.5 degrees of steer on the rear wheels. Its only to stabilize the car under hard cornering and weight transfer not to bloody parallel park in the city


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## Demon Dave (Sep 15, 2002)

The hicas system is designed purely to improve stability during high speed cornering, and as such does not operate below a certain speed (not sure exacly, but I heard 40KM/h). 

To give you an idea of how the system works, here's a graphic I lifted from a nissan article on hicas:









DCD is right, although the angle the rear wheels are turned depends on speed and the degree you turn the steering wheel, even at the extreme the rear wheels only move through around 1 to 2 degrees...


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

You can tell on old honda preludes (and it can make reverse parking one very strange!), but not on a skyline.

And you can drift a skyline with 4WS (well a GTR anyhow), jus not as contollable as you can with it locked/removed.


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## GTES-t (Dec 12, 2003)

Yeah, the Drift and Hicas can be done, but it's highly erratic and difficult to control. Especially in tight streets (such as Japan). 
The good thing about it is that's where I got my engine from! A friend tried to drift his with Hicas on and the third time around it launched him right out of the drift and into a curb, then a little tree, then a pole, and finally a wall.
Just looking at the picture Demon dave posted take a look at one of the mid turn cars and picture the front tires facing out of the curve as they do when you're in a drift.
That's why all the drifters get the Tomei Hicas lock or remove the rear steering components and hard mount it all.


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

its not only drifters that go for Hicas locks..most of the track/race GTR do with out it as there is usually someone very competent behind the wheel...

uhm...I though streets in Japan were quite wide? (and usually very straight!)


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## BBD (May 30, 2002)

> Hicas locks


you can have my left arm but7 dont take away my Hicas LOL I only need my right to change gears and steer the car....

OK aye liek DCD said more competitive drivers do without Hicas, but I would rather keep that area of my car in stock fourm.


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## GTES-t (Dec 12, 2003)

The major streets in the cities of Japan are quite wide and straight. Other then that, the road sizes are quite comparible to here. However, the residential streets are tiny! (Most only fit one car through at a time) It was a pain to get through them! 
Where we'd go to watch the drifting (and attempt it occasionally) was on the roads buy the docks which are just regular two lane streets. They'd basically drift around the block.
The other spots they'd love to drift is the mountain roads which are very long with no turnoffs (so you put someone at the start and end so you know if a car is coming) and VERY curvey!

The street drag racing spots were a 3 lane road (that became 2 after all the cars parked in the third to watch) and the other was just a 2 lane.


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## BBD (May 30, 2002)

this thread makes me wanna go to Japan, somebody take the wife and kids away from me for a few years LOL


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## DCD (Jun 28, 2001)

BBD...make sure you let me now when you come over!


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

*Know what you mean !!!*

And my name is STEVE not STEVEN! The N is my surname! I was christened STEVE, my birth Certificate says STEVE, im STEVE! lol

I STILL GET FRUSTRATED WHEN ON THE PHONE TO SOMEONE AND THEY ASK WHAT IS YOUR CHRISTIAN NAME AND I SAY STEVE AND THEY SAY IS THAT WITH A "v" OR A "ph" ? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrghhhhhhhhh !!! IT'S STEVE !!!!!

& YES IT IS THE HONDA PRELUDE AS I USED TO HAVE ONE AND LIKED TO OPEN THE DOOR AND LOOK OVER MY SHOULDER WHEN REVERSING TO SEE TO "AWKWARD" ANGLE OF THE REAR WHEEL !!! STARANE BUT NICE MACHINE !


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

An important point to note is that most of the R33 and R34 GT-R's use a speed converter to allow the speedo to read in MPH. 

The effect at the HICAS will be that the vehicle is assumed to be travelling much slower than it really is causing the wrong response.

R33's can have their speedo modified to read MPH without affecting the HICAS

R34's can have a 200 MPH speedo fitted that will not affect the HICAS, but will still leave the odometer reading in KPH.


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## MattPayne (Apr 11, 2002)

does anyone know what 'low' 'mid' and 'high' speed are set at???

Ive recently set my R32 back to kmh (well the speedo converter bust! so off it came) but the car does feel a lot more responsive....


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

I changed my car back to kph last year (road angel gives mph reading). Car definately drives better,
Dave


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## nigel f (Sep 11, 2002)

I have to day Pulled the HICAS Fuse, as the car wasy trying to steer the rear wheels, while I was doing about 70-80 MPH, 
This is an on going problem, but to day I had had enough so I disabled it
I quite like it with no HICAS, I have had it checked with the Nissan consult and the system seems fine, but every so often it "twitches" (Even with the RADIO OFF) the "twitch" is not to bad 
but when it seem to be swereving me to the central resivation and then trying to make the rear of the car change to the inside lane it is not good.
I have another HICAS ECU To try, as I have elemanted the G sensors and speed signel etc...
Any similer propbs advice would be welcome

I also Had a R32 and the HICAS and ATESSA Worked much better in KM's 

Nigel


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

Hugh Keir said:


> *An important point to note is that most of the R33 and R34 GT-R's use a speed converter to allow the speedo to read in MPH.
> 
> The effect at the HICAS will be that the vehicle is assumed to be travelling much slower than it really is causing the wrong response.
> 
> ...


Hugh,

So the chances are, most of us R34 owners have the wrong setup then?


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

wow all this Hicas talk is making me worry!!

I get my skyline in march, it is a Jan 94 SVA exampt.. YES!!

i import sports cars from Japan and have my electrician do all the speedo convertions, we just put an adapter or electric converter in to delimit it and change it tto count in mph.
do you rekon i should not bother changing it then?
how do i get rid of the delimiter?
how do i know how fast i am going then?

any help would be very usefull.

ohh i have been to Japan, twice now i will be going back late this year or early 05, i love the place, but i dint like the breakfast in the hotel and the only place we could eat was TGI friday and Outback in shinigawa is that right??
the green line?
great people, great culture bad food,


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## MattPayne (Apr 11, 2002)

the mph converter isnt going back on my car  

Speed limit is taken care of by my RSM 

Im still not sure of the speed im travelling at, but like Dave, you could get a GPS for that or do it my way and guess! (40 for 30mph, 60 for 40 and 160 for 100  )


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## GEORGE GTS (Jan 21, 2004)

what is a RSM?


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

Howsie,

It is my understanding that most of the R34's in the UK use a speed converter and do not have their HICAS working as per Nissans design.

If you have an Apexi Power FC and the speed reads correctly in KLM/hr then your car is not affected, if the KLM/hr on your hand controller reads the same as the MPH on your speedo, then you can be fairly certain that the HICAS is also receiving the wrong input.


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## mark rs (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Know what you mean !!!*



Steve said:


> *And my name is STEVE not STEVEN! The N is my surname! I was christened STEVE, my birth Certificate says STEVE, im STEVE! lol
> 
> I STILL GET FRUSTRATED WHEN ON THE PHONE TO SOMEONE AND THEY ASK WHAT IS YOUR CHRISTIAN NAME AND I SAY STEVE AND THEY SAY IS THAT WITH A "v" OR A "ph" ? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrghhhhhhhhh !!! IT'S STEVE !!!!!
> 
> & YES IT IS THE HONDA PRELUDE AS I USED TO HAVE ONE AND LIKED TO OPEN THE DOOR AND LOOK OVER MY SHOULDER WHEN REVERSING TO SEE TO "AWKWARD" ANGLE OF THE REAR WHEEL !!! STARANE BUT NICE MACHINE ! *



calm down steven


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

Hugh Keir said:


> *Howsie,
> 
> It is my understanding that most of the R34's in the UK use a speed converter and do not have their HICAS working as per Nissans design.
> 
> If you have an Apexi Power FC and the speed reads correctly in KLM/hr then your car is not affected, if the KLM/hr on your hand controller reads the same as the MPH on your speedo, then you can be fairly certain that the HICAS is also receiving the wrong input. *


Thanks Hugh, I'll look into this as I'd like to ensure that all the 'brains' in the car are working together to get the big brain around the track as quick a possible. 

Do you know how the UK cars were converted or do they have a 200 mph speedo?


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## r33 v-spec (May 24, 2002)

Yes i think the UK R34's use a 200mph speedo. 

I did enquire about this from Middlehurst, and it is something that nay R34 owner can buy and I think the price was around £231 + vat.


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## MattPayne (Apr 11, 2002)

GEORGE GTS said:


> *what is a RSM? *


Apexi Rev Speed Meter - 










lots of other places do speed cut gizmos, but for the extra I thought this was more fun!


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## vennuth (Aug 2, 2001)

I recognise that! It's a Leon dashboard isn't it? May have to get one of those! 

Rob


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

r33 v-spec said:


> *Yes i think the UK R34's use a 200mph speedo.
> 
> I did enquire about this from Middlehurst, and it is something that nay R34 owner can buy and I think the price was around £231 + vat. *


Cheers!


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## MattPayne (Apr 11, 2002)

vennuth said:


> *I recognise that! It's a Leon dashboard isn't it? May have to get one of those!
> 
> Rob *


well spotted!!! its actually the dash off a 330bhp Diesel Leon!!!

300 bhp Diesel Leon


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## vennuth (Aug 2, 2001)

I kinda cheated beings as I own a Leon.  I wonder what the torque is on that thing. With 300bhp it must be something like 450 lb ft! Anyone got any idea what language that is so I can translate it?!

Rob


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## Hugh Keir (Jul 25, 2001)

r33 v-spec,

The Middlehurst cars may have a 200 MPH speedo. 

Did you ask how this was achieved, if it was using a frequency converter, the HICAS will not be working properly.

I also have enquired about a 200 MPH speedo from Middlehurst and guess what it included a frequency converter. It may be that some were done properly, but when I enquired it was not an option.


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