# Is the GTR a good track car?



## Valveman (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi Folks

I currently run a Nissan 350Z as my run around car and occasional track car. I have fine tuned the Z and it is now a superb road car, however I have reached that point where to get the 350Z to perform better on the track (lower car, reduce roll and improve grip) it will require stiffer suspension, wider wheels and tyres which will now make it rubbish for the road. I have been looking at several other solutions and one includes the new GTR. I am aware that it will be fast and more track orientated but was wondering if there are any problems using one for track days - like its substantial weight, wear on tyres, reliability etc. Any comments on the GTR would be most welcome.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

The fact it can get round the "Ring" in double quick time should tell you something. It performs very well on track. Less so on a tight twisty track due to weight but still fun. It will eat through consumables like brakes and tyres if used heavily on track but as you say " for occassional " track use - superb. The standard Dunlops are great and dont give up like normal road tyres. I was panicking about knocking a set out in one day but I was pleasently surprised. No rolling onto the sidewall and plenty of grip. 
The GTR hides its weight well on track but it took me a few laps to get used to it. All smiles from me. I think it would be extremely expensive if you are a track junky. Go for it


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## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

According to the boffin that designed the GTR its kerb weight plays an essential role in its handling abilities, it will perform better with less weight, but you need to add more downforce front and rear.

If I wasnt mad, Id just change the seats, fit some track wheels and tryres and maybe add a GTC Y pipe and Cobb access port.

Unfortunately, my mental health has been questioned on more than one occasion, so my GTR now resembles a space ship, Im sure its brilliant on the track, alas, regretfully Ill never find out as its also too LOUD! :bawling:


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

only good for one lap of the ring by all accounts, and by the sound of it about par with a ferrari on servicing..


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## countvonc (Feb 11, 2009)

GTRSTAR said:


> According to the boffin that designed the GTR its kerb weight plays an essential role in its handling abilities, it will perform better with less weight, but you need to add more downforce front and rear.


As in the wanted a rough 'weight' of 1600-1700kg, didn't do it with an aero pack so had to make it heavy. lol.


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## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

countvonc said:


> As in the wanted a rough 'weight' of 1600-1700kg, didn't do it with an aero pack so had to make it heavy. lol.


I had to read this a few time countvonc but I think ive got it now

Yes, basically, they didnt want wings all over the shop so the Kurb weight was calculated to provide the right amount of pressure on the road to give a certain amount of grip to make the car handle the way it does..


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## countvonc (Feb 11, 2009)

GTRSTAR said:


> I had to read this a few time countvonc but I think ive got it now


Yeah, sorry for the poor sentence construction, just popped on for a couple of seconds at lunch time.

So this is nice eh, GTRSTAR? You're having a forum conversation without anyone shouting at you or you shouting at someone else :runaway:


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## Gatling (Jun 16, 2010)

cleethorpes said:


> only good for one lap of the ring by all accounts, and by the sound of it about par with a ferrari on servicing..


Anyone who says that myth about servicing hasnt owned a Ferrari.


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

Valveman said:


> Hi Folks
> 
> I currently run a Nissan 350Z as my run around car and occasional track car. I have fine tuned the Z and it is now a superb road car, however I have reached that point where to get the 350Z to perform better on the track (lower car, reduce roll and improve grip) it will require stiffer suspension, wider wheels and tyres which will now make it rubbish for the road. I have been looking at several other solutions and one includes the new GTR. I am aware that it will be fast and more track orientated but was wondering if there are any problems using one for track days - like its substantial weight, wear on tyres, reliability etc. Any comments on the GTR would be most welcome.


Speak to Arcam, he's the track day junkie. From what I remember him telling me, he's done 1 track day a month for the first 6 months of ownership and intends to continue at that rate for the first twelve months of ownership. He's going to the Ring and maybe there at the moment.


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## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

Gatling said:


> Anyone who says that myth about servicing hasnt owned a Ferrari.


True. New Ferraris are cheaper to run.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

A track car uses up parts. You use them up and you replace them.

I work on a race team, and we do a set of tires every race in a 50 minute sprint race. We do a front set of pads every race. We replace lots of other parts after every race. The end of every year, we replace engine/trans/clutch,axles. 

This is on a "small" team with a relatively low budget. 

The difference between tracking the car and racing the car, is you won't have to fix as much body damage as we have to. Other than that you will go though parts.

The consumables, on a 4000 lb car, go very quickly. The GT-R is a track weapon, but as a track car, there are a ton of other cars you can run much more cheaply. However, do you want something cheap to run, or do you want to run a GT-R?


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## professor matt (Nov 1, 2005)

Well said sean


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

tyndago said:


> A track car uses up parts. You use them up and you replace them.
> 
> I work on a race team, and we do a set of tires every race in a 50 minute sprint race. We do a front set of pads every race. We replace lots of other parts after every race. The end of every year, we replace engine/trans/clutch,axles.
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree. If you want a light weight track weapon - get a caterham. If you want a nice comfortable, turns heads, quick as **** car that will pretty much see off most other cars and after that you can drop it into "waftomatic" all the way home - get a GTR

One trackday with plenty of tracktime is way more than a proper race car gets. In my old car I used to average 150 miles per trackday. Thats a serious beating for any motor. You use it - you pay for it. There is no easy option but a bit of mechanical sympathy goes a long way.


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## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

The GTR might have been quick round the Ring for 1 lap, but 1 lap is all it can manage at a time. And 99.99% of GTR owners aren't able to drive the car as quick as that anyway. The car went quick for that lap because of the driver also, the car didn't drive itself. Put an average GTR owner on a lap of the Ring and add minutes :thumbsup:

If the OP wants a good track car he might as well buy a well sorted Evo. It will work out cheaper all round and probably lap faster than a GTR anyway.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I'll have to chime in here as there is an important issue with regards tracking the GTR.

I've just returned from a track day at Spa on Monday which BTW is the best track, in the world, period, no arguments...

A wonderfully fast track with perfect tarmac, amazing scenery, and fast, fast sections covering some 4 miles.

My GTR has some minor mods as follows..

- AP with GTC custom tune
- GTC Titan 80mm full zorst (OEM downpipes though)
- Performance Friction rotors and .01 pads

Track started out a touch damp, drying out as the morning went on and also on track was several GT3s, a GT3 RS, a race prepped 360 fezza, a 430 scuderia.

My GTR kept pace with all of them, my brake upgrade worked flawlessly all day, much improved over stock. My Bridgestones were absolutely fine, no track issue for me.

But, and it is sadly a big but....

I could only manage a max of 3 laps at a time before transmission temps reached 115-119 degrees.
A cool down lap saw temps drop to only 110-112, and sitting in the pit area for 15 minutes with the engine running had temps down to 98 degrees.
If I didnt have the engine on, tremps would take 45 minutes to drop below 100 degrees.

And of course as soon as I went out again, temps rose quickly above 115 and I was back to square one.


So yes, the GTR is a stunning track day animal. Admiring glances from many there, comfortable to ride in for the journey from Liverpool to Aachen in Germany were we stayed. 

Almost perfect.

But the transmission fluid issue is a huge issue.

Keep to Nissan's OEM stuff, and either hold back all the time so not to cost another £600 for a fluid change, or stuff it and track days become very expensive.

Or swap out to something like Willall fluids which are said to be fine beyond 120 degrees.

For me, I'm in a quandry and time will tell which way I go.


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## WingedBeast1968 (Sep 18, 2009)

Eat the cake, buy more cake. Eat the cake, buy more cake.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

charles charlie said:


> I'll have to chime in here as there is an important issue with regards tracking the GTR.
> 
> I've just returned from a track day at Spa on Monday which BTW is the best track, in the world, period, no arguments...
> 
> ...


I feel your pain. Just did Cadwell and had to get the passenger to shout up when we reached 117 degrees. Which was a niusance as we were having a great battle. I`m almost tempted to say stuff it and see how much the temps rise by on an extended period of trackwork. Obviously if they get near 140 then thats bad. The only way I can see you to move forward is a tranny cooler if you want to stick to oem fluid. Still buggers your warranty though :bawling:


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

Is it a good track car? Absolutely not. Ok it can go round quickly but not for long. I have been on a lot of track days, and I see GT3's going out for lap after lap after lap, no issues at all, day after day. No temperature issues at all. A GTR at Spa can do about 4 laps tops and you have to come in to let it cool down. Consumables are an issue too.

And then there's the gadgets... give me something RWD with no driver aids any day.

To me a track car should be light and powerful.

Not taking anything from it as a road car, it's a monster, but Nissan should never have tried to sell it as "anytime / anywhere"


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

I didn't spot that before I posted!

Presume you saw the destroyed goldish coloured R35? 

Was a great 2 days 



charles charlie said:


> I'll have to chime in here as there is an important issue with regards tracking the GTR.
> 
> I've just returned from a track day at Spa on Monday which BTW is the best track, in the world, period, no arguments...
> 
> ...


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## Kurgan (Jan 13, 2010)

Chris956 said:


> The only way I can see you to move forward is a tranny cooler if you want to stick to oem fluid. Still buggers your warranty though :bawling:


Thats not quite true. You can get Nismos tranny cooler and keep your warranty.

Or you can put in Willall oils which are good for +140 C.

Or better yet, get a Willall cooler and Willall oil. Thats what i am going to do.


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## R35Bren (Apr 4, 2008)

Think my tranny temp got close to 140'C at Silverstone, (136'C last time I checked) & that's after about 20 laps. I was enjoying myself so thought screw it! The Porsches seemed to be out even more than me at times mind you. Expensive day when you factor the session price, five tanks of fuel, diff & tranny oil change (Pentosin FFL4 @ Litchfield so not too pricey in the end) . . probably used half of the crappy Yellowstuff pads and half of the Michelin PS2's which is a good thing as they both suck as bad as each other and has given me an excuse to change them


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Mark B said:


> I didn't spot that before I posted!
> 
> Presume you saw the destroyed goldish coloured R35?
> 
> Was a great 2 days


I was there on Monday, drove back yesterday so what did I miss?? 

:runaway:


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

R35Bren said:


> Think my tranny temp got close to 140'C at Silverstone, (136'C last time I checked) & that's after about 20 laps. I was enjoying myself so thought screw it! The Porsches seemed to be out even more than me at times mind you. Expensive day when you factor the session price, five tanks of fuel, diff & tranny oil change (Pentosin FFL4 @ Litchfield so not too pricey in the end) . . probably used half of the crappy Yellowstuff pads and half of the Michelin PS2's which is a good thing as they both suck as bad as each other and has given me an excuse to change them


Good man , nice to see someone using the car rather than dusting it !


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

pic removed.


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## Chris956 (Apr 11, 2010)

ouch .... and the bonnet has popped too :bawling:


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## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Chris956 said:


> ouch .... and the bonnet has popped too :bawling:



The End Result Of Bonnets Popping


I knew they'd be useful for something


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Oh shit I know who that is, I really hope him and his wife are okay.

I know he was driving on Monday with VDC off for at least some of the day as he'd had a 360 moment at some point.

Was there more damage than the pic shows?


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

They both seemed fine, CC.

The car looked pretty bad to me. The angle of the rear wheel doesn't look too nice. Other side was similar IIRC.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

I should just add that there was a German Red GT2, and a British Sierra Cosworth which were doing their best to put as many cars off the track as they could by driving like ****ing gobshites.

I kinda hope my fellow brown GTR owner went off all by himself as better to be responsible for your won damage than have it caused by some track day hero wannabe tool.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Mark B said:


> They both seemed fine, CC.
> 
> The car looked pretty bad to me. The angle of the rear wheel doesn't look too nice. Other side was similar IIRC.


Gutted for him, really nice chap, very very glad they're okay.


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

He said he just overcooked it.

There were some bad drivers there, which is unusual. Mostly the GT3 drivers (one of which got told to go home)

Tuesday morning was a nightmare. There were 2 crashes right in front of me, the blue 350z (nearly took me with him!) and the GTR, plus a few more. BaT were on the verge of hauling everyone back to the briefing room.

Agreed on the Cosworth's too. Straight line merchants, and horrible machines...


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## sin (Dec 3, 2007)

Thats awful, gutted for him. Glad he's ok.

Just a thought.................... Is it wise to have this picture up, you never know he may of told the insurance company he did it on the way home.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Mark B said:


> He said he just overcooked it.
> 
> There were some bad drivers there, which is unusual. Mostly the GT3 drivers (one of which got told to go home)
> 
> ...


Was that 350z a convertible?

I had a poo in pants moment on Monday when as I reached the top of Eau Rouge doing around 110-120, I cleared the crest to find half a Lotus 2-Eleven on my line with the rest of it scattered across the whole track. I still do not know how I missed them. 

3 very lucky fellows that's for sure.

Glad to hear the knob in the GT3 got binned off, he was lucky he didnt get knocked out by several people on Monday.

What car were you in on Monday Mark?


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## Boosted (Jun 5, 2008)

Mark B said:


> He said he just overcooked it.





The guy should have gone to CATDT. Or maybe he should have driven within his own limits and not the cars. Obviously the latter outweighed the former.


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

I was in a grey S2000, CC.

If it was going slowly, my dad was driving 

YouTube - Honda S2000 - Spa Francorchamps - First Session

The 350z was a convertable. Looks in bad shape but I don't think structurally affected.


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## charles charlie (May 3, 2008)

Mark B said:


> The 350z was a convertable. Looks in bad shape but I don't think structurally affected.


I feel sorry for the chap in the 350z as he was pootling around on Monday, hardly seems fair..

I believe that the yellow 360 Modena race prepped Fezza had a crash too.

Seems like we were lucky to miss Tuesday's carnage!


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## CATDT (Feb 20, 2007)

Boosted said:


> The guy should have gone to CATDT.


Always happy to oblige but sounds like it is too late now :bawling: 

Hope all are ok.

Jo


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

Yep the yellow 360 had a bash, but just cosmetic and carried on.

I'm not sure if the 350 hit oil, as there was an M3 suspiciously parked up on the next corner... not a nice track to hit oil, as you are always going to be travelling!


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## Henry 145 (Jul 15, 2009)

Have had my first R35 on track at Silverstone and it could do about 10-15 hard laps before the temps crept up close to 120c and I backed off...handled very well and awesome speed...have taken second R35 to the Ring and great for one hard lap but temps got to 119c after one lap before needing a good rest...what was annoying was that the Porsche's kept doing lap after lap...even if they could not live with the GTR's pace.

My thoughts are that the Porsche will be a greater challenge to drive and more enjoyable...I took a new GT3 out at the Porsche Experience and drove it solidly for 2 hours and the temps never rose despite doing hard laps on handling circuit and donuts.

For a fast road car the GTR is in a league of its own...for a track car it is compromised and too heavy...


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

:iagree:


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

TAZZMAXX said:


> Speak to Arcam, he's the track day junkie. From what I remember him telling me, he's done 1 track day a month for the first 6 months of ownership and intends to continue at that rate for the first twelve months of ownership. He's going to the Ring and maybe there at the moment.


Yo TazzMaxx, not there yet, going out on the 20th, 6 TDs in 5 months, replaced engine oil & filter @ 3k, discs, pads & tyres all round @ 6k as well as all fluids swapped at 6k.

For a heavy car I don't consider it excessive, the tyres are the real killers for me, it will be interesting to see how many laps I get on the ring with Dirk before the tranny reaches 140+ .... it going into limp home around 145 degrees C.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

*ONe*



Arcam said:


> Yo TazzMaxx, not there yet, going out on the 20th, 6 TDs in 5 months, replaced engine oil & filter @ 3k, discs, pads & tyres all round @ 6k as well as all fluids swapped at 6k.
> 
> For a heavy car I don't consider it excessive, the tyres are the real killers for me, it will be interesting to see how many laps I get on the ring with Dirk before the tranny reaches 140+ .... it going into limp home around 145 degrees C.


ONE !!!


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Arcam 

You gonna come play at CC on the 21st ??


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

sin said:


> Thats awful, gutted for him. Glad he's ok.
> 
> Just a thought.................... Is it wise to have this picture up, you never know he may of told the insurance company he did it on the way home.


Good point, done


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Steve said:


> Arcam
> 
> You gonna come play at CC on the 21st ??


Sorry Steve, I will be in Germany from the 20th


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

Steve said:


> ONE !!!


I recon I will get a few more than that if I run up to 140 degrees, my new lube will take it Captain


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

sin said:


> Thats awful, gutted for him. Glad he's ok.
> 
> Just a thought.................... Is it wise to have this picture up, you never know he may of told the insurance company he did it on the way home.


Guess I know who it was


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## JIMBO GTR (Dec 1, 2009)

*.*

Arcam , ill see you there! first time at the Ring ...very excited and very nervous. :thumbsup:


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

JIMBO GTR said:


> Arcam , ill see you there! first time at the Ring ...very excited and very nervous. :thumbsup:


You should be !!!!! to both !!!!:flame:


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

JIMBO GTR said:


> Arcam , ill see you there! first time at the Ring ...very excited and very nervous. :thumbsup:


Excellent Jimbo, are you traveling over with CAT via the Chunnel as well?


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## JIMBO GTR (Dec 1, 2009)

indeed i am!!...


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

JIMBO GTR said:


> indeed i am!!...


Most excellent, I believe the GT-R is a bit of a squeeze to get on the old train but CC has just been over and I will be seeing him tonight for the lowdown


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## JIMBO GTR (Dec 1, 2009)

ill tie mine to the roof if need be!!


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

Tip when using eurostar:
Get in the lorry area its much wider.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

paul__k said:


> Tip when using eurostar:
> Get in the lorry area its much wider.


Thanks for the tip Paul, do you have to do anything special to get into that section?


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

> Thanks for the tip Paul, do you have to do anything special to get into that section?


Just ask nicely at the train. Sometimes you get loaded there anyway.
Seems to be towards the front which is handy for getting off sharpish.


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## Arcam (Jun 30, 2009)

paul__k said:


> Just ask nicely at the train. Sometimes you get loaded there anyway.
> Seems to be towards the front which is handy for getting off sharpish.


Nice one cheers :thumbsup:


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## nick the tubman (Jun 28, 2006)

charles charlie said:


> I should just add that there was a German Red GT2, and a British Sierra Cosworth which were doing their best to put as many cars off the track as they could by driving like ****ing gobshites.
> 
> I kinda hope my fellow brown GTR owner went off all by himself as better to be responsible for your won damage than have it caused by some track day hero wannabe tool.


cossie blew up later in the day... :clap: he nearly hit me, cutting it way to fine chasing that porsche..


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

out of curiosity how wide are they?


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## Mark B (Jul 28, 2004)

Shame about the cossie 

RE the chunnel, it's bloody narrow and I reckon there is about 6 inches either side of my S2000. I certainly wouldn't like to put a GTR on there


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

I tried driving fast along the train in my 33... no chance... first one on though so that was nice.


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