# Gear box .. straight from Nissan Europe



## Daggie (Jun 24, 2008)

Admin: This has been edited by request from Nissan GB. Publication of this article was not distributed with permission and represents a breech of trust.


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## Andy_ran (Jun 14, 2005)

that does read as not our problem. I think it's like any car you modifiy from new, warranty will be honoured unless your mods caused the components to fail


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## Daggie (Jun 24, 2008)

I did not know that mail was not for publication, because other posts on this forum on behalf of Nissan. (Nissan Motorline or something like that) Only difference was that mine came directly from Nissan Europe. As they stated in their message, not everything has been decided yet, so ignore my post should you have read it.

I will respect Nissan's decision and would like to publicly appoligize for posting the message. I did not know it was confidential.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

failure with vdc off = no warranty

Not marketed as 0-60 or qtr mile machine, this is down to magazines

issue brewing on Internet, related to abused cars


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## Stachi (Jan 26, 2008)

^^ So nothing new..

Marc


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## obzi (Feb 19, 2008)

HA HA!!!! I GOT THEM!!!!! (I think)


have a look on the official website right now and you'll find this page, it's live as i write this.

Nissan GT-R Media Press Release Detail Page

Have a read and see for yourself that they ARE marketing the GTR with a 0-62 of 3.5seconds.

Reads:
In stark performance terms, 62 mph from a standing start appears in around 3.5 seconds, while its potential top speed is 195 mph (provisional figure). But it is the GT-R's astonishing ground covering capabilities that mark out the new Nissan, ably demonstrated by a 7m 38s lap of the demanding Nordschleife (Nürburgring), one of the fastest times ever recorded by a production car and achieved in less than favourable conditions. 

The words 'provisional' is in there but i'd like to see that go to court especially as the word provisional is after the 195mph.

Also, can 3.5 seconds be classed as 'around' 4 seconds? (0-62 without launch control)


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

To quote, "In stark performance terms, 62 mph from a standing start appears in around 3.5 seconds, while its potential top speed is 195 mph (provisional figure). But it is the GT-R's astonishing ground covering capabilities that mark out the new Nissan, ably demonstrated by a 7m 38s lap of the demanding Nordschleife (Nürburgring), one of the fastest times ever recorded by a production car and achieved in less than favourable conditions."


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## guyblue10 (May 30, 2008)

close but no cigar....

Read the last line

* All specification details relate to the Japanese domestic version of the Nissan GT-R and may not be consistent with final European figures. Final European GT-R technical specifications will be confirmed closer to start of sales.

Nice try....


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

That was an official press-release, so I'll be holding Nissan to that claim.


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

I'd argue that without releasing the UK specification before contracts are signed that Nissan are treading on very dodgy legal ground here. Especially if there are significant changes over the Jap spec.


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

GT-Racer said:


> I'd argue that without releasing the UK specification before contracts are signed that Nissan are treading on very dodgy legal ground here. Especially if there are significant changes over the Jap spec.


Just let them try it


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

GT-Racer said:


> I'd argue that without releasing the UK specification before contracts are signed that Nissan are treading on very dodgy legal ground here. Especially if there are significant changes over the Jap spec.


Just let them try it


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## Zed Ed (Oct 24, 2007)

bloody iphone


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## Daggie (Jun 24, 2008)

Zed Ed said:


> failure with vdc off = no warranty


That's not correct.
Failure (to the parts that are related to VDC) if VDC has ever been off, whilst driving = no warranty.

That means if I put VDC off for a trackday and the something brakes 2 months later (when driving with VDC on), then my warranty is void.
I wouldn't have a problem with that, if they hadn't put a button on the dashboard that puts VDC off. Any passenger/valet/idiot/... can switch it off, and thus voiding my warranty.

I find it very strange how they can legally defend that. 
I dubbelchecked with my dealer to see if i understood the message correctly, but haven't received an answer yet. If he confirms it, my head tells me to cancel the car .. Don't know if I'm listening to that tough.


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

As I said in another post, I've downloaded the UK Brochure from the gtrnissan.com website and Nissan definately claim 0-62mph (0-100km/h) in 3.5 seconds. They also mention the 3 (yes THREE, not two plus one that voids the warranty) stage 

'Advanced Electronic Stability Control (ESP) System with three driver-selectable settings:
Normal - Blah Blah Blah
R-Mode - Blah Blah Blah
Off - For when the driver does not want the help of the system

Disclaimer - ESP cannot prevent accidents due to abrupt steering, carelessness or dangerous driving techniques. Always drive safely.'

No mention that the warranty will be voided if you use the third selectable stage, not even in the disclaimer!


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

Daggie said:


> Admin: This has been edited by request from Nissan GB. Publication of this article was not distributed with permission and represents a breech of trust.



So what was the general inference from Nissan Europe then?


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## Stachi (Jan 26, 2008)

Peeps, come down.. This is getting you nowhere with the VDC..

Its very simple, if you smash the car with VDC off, you can not blaim it on the Car, its you fault. So no warranty. "I want a new car. I smashed it but I bought an Electronic Stability Program with the that should take care of that"

It's not that easy.

Whats the 0-100km/h time in Automatic or Manual mode WITHOUT LaunchControl?

Marc


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

Stachi clearly hasn't been listening.

When I go home, I'm going to iron a shirt on maximum temperature. If the iron breaks, I'll just kick myself for being so stupid! I should never have gone above medium heat.

Another person who should never consider law as a profession!


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## Stachi (Jan 26, 2008)

Where did I say that you actually can't drive the car with VDC off? Nowhere!

Forgive, my english is bad, it isn't my first language, but clearly YOU haven't read my post correctly. 

It's simple, if you turn VDC off, drive above your abilities, smash the car, its YOUR fault, no warranty. The same case with VDC on, or better: regardless which setting. Its like the Sat Nav telling you that YOU should watch out for traffic, because it's only an Aid, no replacement for a drivers brain.

If VDC is off and an ABS sensor gives up its ghost, no dealer will be so pickey to not give you warranty. 

Another person who will never have a good relationship to his dealer...

Marc


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

Stachi said:


> Where did I say that you actually can't drive the car with VDC off? Nowhere!
> 
> Forgive, my english is bad, it isn't my first language, but clearly YOU haven't read my post correctly.
> 
> ...


You're still not getting it Stachi, we're not talking about smashing up the car! We're talking about destroying the gearbox and it not being covered by the warranty if you've ever switched off VDC!


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## Stachi (Jan 26, 2008)

Where the F... does it say that you loose your warranty if you switch off VDC once? So you switch off VDC, 2 Months later your central locking isn't working anymore and the dealer refuses warranty or what? Sorry, I can't see this happen. Nissan themselfs say that VDC should be switched off if trapped in snow etc.

Lets see what happens, if I'm wrong with what I say, I'll apologize!

I can see that there are gearbox issues, I see that most issues arise from abuse. Brute force kills everything and some people think that Warranty covers it all. Simply thats not true. I have customers thinking like that on a daily basis..

If there are issues that are constructive problems, Nissan has to fix them, thats where I'm on your side!

Marc


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## mindlessoath (Nov 30, 2007)

unless you abuse the vdc off feature its not likly that nissan will void the warrantee.


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

mindlessoath said:


> unless you abuse the vdc off feature its not likly that nissan will void the warrantee.


The handbook says warranty is void if VDC is switched off. It does not say that the warranty is void if VDC is switched off although it is unlikely that we will actually void the warranty. Nissan is short on cash at the moment just like all car manufacturers, if you take your GTR in to your dealer with the gearbox hanging out the bottom and its going to cost either you or them £10,000 to fix it and they have a get out of jail free card because you switched off VDC at some point, what do you think they're going to do?? They don't really care that you only switched it off to get out of some snow, the car doesn't log that, it just logs that you switched it off and the book says no warranty for you!


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## paul__k (Dec 8, 2007)

I do wish Nissan UK or Nissan Europe would just state their position to the press. What the hell is their problem?


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## TomTomGTA (May 13, 2008)

Awww, come on!

In school when the teacher said don't talk during class, and you did anyway, well you got punished for that didn't you?
Well there are rules, they are written down, you don't respect them, don't come crying to mommy!

I don't want to be rude, I mean I've driven this car, driven an F430, a Radical, a 599 GTB, a few Porsches, I am by no means a race driver. But I would never take off VDC on such a car!
The instructors on the 'ring told me with VDC off the car was a handful, and these guys are RACE DRIVERS, so why would any of us, maybe sporty drivers, even want to turn of VDC, we couldn't handle the car.

Don't start me on Launch Control, it only serves to show of in front of friends (the only other need, a standing start in a race, isn't going to be used a lot I guess) and this car is able to shut up all of our friends without launch control.
On a Ferrari you use launch control ONCE, and warranty is done with, ask my father:chuckle:!

So, long speech, short lesson, I am going to leave my VDC on, as I always do.

Have a nice evening!
And sorry if I offended anyone!


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

i did a 0-60 in 2.88 seconds recorded at santapod without launch control and in auto mode.


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## Stachi (Jan 26, 2008)

So wtf do we need launch control for? 

Marc


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

Stachi said:


> So wtf do we need launch control for?
> 
> Marc


its not worth the risk in my opinion even though mine is an import from japan (i have nobody to take it for warranty repair)...

so i wont touch the launch control (but i will try it one day):chuckle:


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## TomTomGTA (May 13, 2008)

I mean Stachi's right!

You only need LC in Formula 1 or maybe WRC (and even there... it certainly doesn't help to make either one exciting...)

Oh, and you certainly don't need it on the 'ring and we, mere mortals, better leave VDC on at the ring, otherwise it's as they say in Germany "Hecke auf, Hecke zu"

and take a look @ Jm-Imports' time!

Cheers


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## sjc (Mar 18, 2008)

So do we think it's possible to get the dealer to set the car up so that VDC is permanently on? In which case the "accidental","valeter did it","only once honestly" issues are gone completely, and Nissan couldn't then wriggle out of anything.


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## Stachi (Jan 26, 2008)

If the home made "issues", mainly on the 'net, don't stop, Nissan will simply lock away those functions with the next software update..

I asked about the warranty of BMW regarding their LC, TomTomGTA mentioned that LC on the Ferrari is a big no no...

I see everyones concern about spending 80.000 Euros on such a car and having functions that may (or may not) damage the car now or later. 

Jurgen said that he achieved (and beat) the 0-60 time claimed by Nissan without the launch control. 

If Nissan can confirm that warranty isn't void forever because of using VDC off one time, everything is fine and we can go have a party...

Marc


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

Jm-Imports said:


> i did a 0-60 in 2.88 seconds recorded at santapod without launch control and in auto mode.


that's amazing....was that in a standard R35 GT-R? what type of fuel were you using?


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## obzi (Feb 19, 2008)

I agree with sjc, how many times have you accidentally knocked the fog light on, or the wipers, of the horn, etc when cleaning the car or even when driving.
A button is a button and if you catch it how miles before you notice? Is it then bye bye warranty?

It seems like many of you have a relationship/history with a Nissan dealer and i don't, i'm an hours drive away from my HPC and i have no idea who they are, and they're certainly not going to do me any favours if the gearbox falls out the back.
May i suggest that if this is going to cost £10 grand to replace then yours isn't either.

I'm not intending to launch or even drive without VDC off, i simply don't have the talent of some on here so there is only one question for me.
If i drive it well within the cars abilities and the VDC gets accidentally switched off even for a very short time, do i trust Nissan to be fair and understanding with me if the transmission /gearbox disintegrates?

Do i hell.


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## Daggie (Jun 24, 2008)

obzi said:


> how many times have you accidentally knocked the fog light on, or the wipers, of the horn, etc when cleaning the car or even when driving.
> A button is a button and if you catch it how miles before you notice? Is it then bye bye warranty?


Plain and simple, yes.


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## TomTomGTA (May 13, 2008)

You're right, but you can't turn it on accidentally, you need to hold the button down for 2 or 3 seconds, so no worry:thumbsup:


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

they'll be able to read how you drove the car while it was off too so if it was just pootling along or if you were using it to get out of snow or mud then that wouldn't invalidate the warranty.


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## bonzelite (May 14, 2006)

axolotl said:


> they'll be able to read how you drove the car while it was off too so if it was just pootling along or if you were using it to get out of snow or mud then that wouldn't invalidate the warranty.


correct

and a Nissan press release recently said that if the VDC is off but it is not determined to have contributed to any damages that may have arisen to the GR6, then the warranty in general isn't voided. You could theoretically drive around for the duration of the warranty, with VDC off, driving normally and without incident, and the warranty would theoretically be honored at any time. 

In other words, you have to somewhat "try" to void the warranty. Say you accidentally switch it off and then proceed to do 45 launches with your buddies on Saturday night, and the transaxle explodes, you're pretty much ****ed whether it's on or off as the black box data recorder will document the extremity of use. 

NNA release:

_*"The singular thing people need to remember is that using launch control does not void the warranty - The warranty clause regarding the operation of the vehicle with VDC turned off states that Nissan will not cover damage or failures of otherwise covered components, IF it can be determined that the use of launch control led or contributed to the failure. The act of using launch control (which requires turning off the VDC) will not automatically void the vehicle warranty. Simply put, the warranty outlines that failures or damage resulting from things such as misuse, accidents, non-factory modifications, etc. are not covered under the factory warranty.

Further, the warranty states that VDC should only be turned off to help when rocking the vehicle when stuck in mud or snow.

Nissan will not void the entire warranty on any of our cars based on one specific issue of one specific component or system, however, a part or system won’t be covered under warranty if Nissan determines that the failure was as a result of misuse, modifications, etc. (as mentioned above)."
*_

NNA statement Concerning Launch Control and Warranty - NAGTROC - The Nissan GT-R Owners Club


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## nidge (Jun 3, 2008)

Jm-Imports said:


> i did a 0-60 in 2.88 seconds recorded at santapod without launch control and in auto mode.


This is an amazing time. surely not a stock car. be really interested to learn more of how you did this. thanks


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

obzi said:


> The words 'provisional' is in there but i'd like to see that go to court especially as the word provisional is after the 195mph.


That means you only need a provisional license to do it, clearly.


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

Jm-Imports said:


> i did a 0-60 in 2.88 seconds recorded at santapod without launch control and in auto mode.





nidge said:


> This is an amazing time. surely not a stock car. be really interested to learn more of how you did this. thanks




0-60 Feet I assume.:chuckle:


Rich


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

It's either a really good 0-60mph or a really bad 0-60ft.


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

*Censorship? or Copyright?*



Daggie said:


> Admin: This has been edited by request from Nissan GB. Publication of this article was not distributed with permission and represents a breech of trust.


Is this an Nissan-owners club or Nissan-owned club?  Was the article a communication to a member, if so, its the member's choice to publish. If it is an article that Nissan had stolen from, then fair play for removing it, w.r.t. to opyright etc.

Which one is it? After all, this is an owners club. :banned: Important, that admin are seen to play fair and do not bow to bullying tactics.

That's how Nazi Germany started, and look what happened there... :lamer:

As to VDC-off voiding warranty, Nissan can write that in the contract, but as oft mentioned on forums, by myself included, the product must conform to the Sales of Goods Act (as amended), i.e. be as described, fit for purpose, and of satisfactory quality, including durability.

Thus, VDC-off clause or not, Nissan cannot disclaim these statutory rights.

Also, be aware that given the warranty is a standard form contract and non-negotiable and is with a consumer, it may be regarded as an Unfair Contract under U.K. Law. This means unfavourable terms may be set aside by a court and favourable ones enforced in favour of the consumer. Ask yourself this, if you were in an equal bargining position with Nissan, would you negotiate the VDC-off condition? I think not. And I think no reasonable consumer would. Thus, IMVHO, I think I'd have a case if the VDC-off clause is ever used to deny warranty to sue for breach of contract and require specific performance of the contract as remedy.

Thus, its best for all concerned (Nissan and its loyal customers) that Nissan play fair on the warranty and with a fair HPC willingness to settle reasonable claims, effectively and efficiently.

After all, we're paying £60K for Nissan's top model and have a right to expect hassle free motoring under the 3 year 60 000 mile warranty.

Just my opinion. Don't rely on it. Seek professional legal advice. (My disclaimer!). opcorn:


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

*Data Protection and Privicy Law*



axolotl said:


> they'll be able to read how you drove the car while it was off too so if it was just pootling along or if you were using it to get out of snow or mud then that wouldn't invalidate the warranty.


True, but if Nissan do so without express consent from you, obtained without duress, it is simply theft of data you own from your property, and Nissan risk criminal charges.

Thus not great evidence to present in a court. E.g. "How did you obtain the data. Err, I stole it from the customer your Honour." If I was Nissan, I would not go there.

I simply don't think new owners should be bullied-around on this, nor put up with such disrespect nor poor customer service. 

Of course, Nissan has every right to refuse Numpties, claiming for abuse way outside of normal wear and tear and purpose expressed by the buyer and representations as to fitness (e.g. as a sports car) made by Nissan.

Just my opinion. Don't rely on it. Seek professional legal advice. :runaway:

Again, as long as Nissan plays fair with its customers who use common sense and do not abuse the product, but suffer unfortunate failures or defects under warranty, then all shall be well. And customers will be well chuffed. And the Nissan legend will live on


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## Jm-Imports (Feb 12, 2007)

for those thats interested

here you go guys....x2 runs at 11.9

0.60 in 2.88 impressive eh











http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n297/Jm-Imports/gtrslip.jpg
ADMIN EDIT HOLY COW THAT WAS A BIG IMAGE!!


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

My 2p worth:

I believe that if you drive with VDC off, Nissan will require you to visit an HPC to "review" how the car was driven in this state. For example, say you do a track day and want no computer aids so you switch it off - next day, visit HPC and they read the black box and send you on your way warranty intact.

I am reliably informed that they are only looking for abuse - a track day is not seen as that but multiple launches is. So even if you break something in the transmission on your trackday, as long as you weren't abusing it (ie to limiter in each gear all the way through the day) then warranty will be ok.

This seems fair on one condition - that the HPC's offer this service (data review) for a nominal fee, such as £75. Clearly charging £250 each time would make running this car for its marketed purpose prohibitively expensive and thus I would consider my options.

I have asked my dealer to approach the Head of Product @ NGB to clarify this and get some idea of the service cost.

Hope that helps?????

David


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## R33_GTS-t (Apr 27, 2005)

Wow, it's actually 2.08! Oh wait, 0-60ft.:chuckle:



Jm-Imports said:


> for those thats interested
> 
> here you go guys....x2 runs at 11.9
> 
> 0.60 in 2.88 impressive eh


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

the figures are still good for auto mode with traction control...he got a quarter mile time of 11.9 seconds at 119mph which isn't too far off the "Car and Driver" figures of 11.5 seconds at 124mph (which used launch control). I wouldn't be surprised if this equates to a 0-60mph time of under 4 seconds maybe as low as 3.7 but (please correct me if I am wrong) I don't think JM imports is referring to a 0-60 MPH time


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## Aerodramatics (Feb 10, 2008)

*Dentention @ the HPC. "100 lines: I must not..."*



sumo69 said:


> My 2p worth:
> 
> I believe that if you drive with VDC off, Nissan will require you to visit an HPC to "review" how the car was driven in this state. For example, say you do a track day and want no computer aids so you switch it off - next day, visit HPC and they read the black box and send you on your way warranty intact.
> 
> ...


Sounds good. Hopefully, the HoP @ NMGB is eminently reasonable and will make a public statement (that isn't requested to be withdrawn by admin).

My view, is that the law acts as a safety net, and any unfair terms that Nissan places in its standard form contracts can be challenged in court and may in some instances be unlawful under the Sales of Goods Act (As amended) and Unfair Contract Terms Act (As amended). Again, requiring customers to subject their car to inspection with a view to voiding warranty may be unlawful. E.g. what if you maintain the car correctly, including oil changes and consumable items. Why should you be compelled under standard form contract to declare anything to Nissan HPC? In this instance, such terms could be considered unreasonably onerous, imho.

Just my opinion. Don't rely on it. Seek professional legal advice ! :chuckle:

I've boffed on aboot it here, just to make sure peeps "known their rights" as it were. E.g. Know that Nissan are just one party to the contract and we the customer is the other. And the customer has (additional) rights under the contract as well as Nissan T&C's in fsvour of itself but also the customer has fundamental statutory rights that Nissan cannot disclaim.

Personally, I think track-daying a high performance sports car is the only legal way to enjoy its full performance in the UK and is entirely reasonable. I also think switching VDC-off on track and handling days is entirely reasonable to explore the car's fundamental handling dynamics and learn to judge the grip limit and beyond. There should be no warranty problem doing this at organised events, especially under instruction.

Clearly, if one loses control and stacks the car, then tough do-da. Make sure you are track insured or happy to accept the consequence of taking an uninsured risk. How, if the mere data -logging of VDC-off is said to "void" the warranty, then I myself would seriosly consider suing in court, asI'd hold this as unreasonable.

:blahblah: Broken record, but I made my purpose quite clear when ordering and Nissan have clearly represented the many road and track capabilities of the GT-R to me by all forms of media and in person by presentation.

Fingers crossed common sense prevails and all are happy. :thumbsup:


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## turbobungle (Mar 18, 2008)

Aerodramatics said:


> Sounds good. Hopefully, the HoP @ NMGB is eminently reasonable and will make a public statement (that isn't requested to be withdrawn by admin).
> 
> My view, is that the law acts as a safety net, and any unfair terms that Nissan places in its standard form contracts can be challenged in court and may in some instances be unlawful under the Sales of Goods Act (As amended) and Unfair Contract Terms Act (As amended). Again, requiring customers to subject their car to inspection with a view to voiding warranty may be unlawful. E.g. what if you maintain the car correctly, including oil changes and consumable items. Why should you be compelled under standard form contract to declare anything to Nissan HPC? In this instance, such terms could be considered unreasonably onerous, imho.
> 
> ...


Amen to that! :thumbsup:


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

axolotl said:


> the figures are still good for auto mode with traction control...he got a quarter mile time of 11.9 seconds at 119mph which isn't too far off the "Car and Driver" figures of 11.5 seconds at 124mph (which used launch control). I wouldn't be surprised if this equates to a 0-60mph time of under 4 seconds maybe as low as 3.7 but (please correct me if I am wrong) I don't think JM imports is referring to a 0-60 MPH time



The 1/4 is ok for LC off, but 2.08 sec for the 60 Ft:chuckle: time is poor and shows the problem of launching an automatic without LC.
Even my standard Subaru Impreza could do a 1.7 sec 60 Ft.


Rich


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## Stachi (Jan 26, 2008)

bonzelite said:


> _*"The singular thing people need to remember is that using launch control does not void the warranty - The warranty clause regarding the operation of the vehicle with VDC turned off states that Nissan will not cover damage or failures of otherwise covered components, IF it can be determined that the use of launch control led or contributed to the failure. The act of using launch control (which requires turning off the VDC) will not automatically void the vehicle warranty. Simply put, the warranty outlines that failures or damage resulting from things such as misuse, accidents, non-factory modifications, etc. are not covered under the factory warranty.
> 
> Further, the warranty states that VDC should only be turned off to help when rocking the vehicle when stuck in mud or snow.
> 
> ...


WTF.... Its all written here, the same thing I try to explain over and over again.. 

Marc


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

Couldn't agree more. I'm sure warranty data metions that the data is owned by Nissan or something! Again, of course the contract has to be fair under UK law. So many people seem to think that if somithing is on a contract then it's set in stone. Simply not true - It still has to be legal!



Aerodramatics said:


> True, but if Nissan do so without express consent from you, obtained without duress, it is simply theft of data you own from your property, and Nissan risk criminal charges.
> 
> Thus not great evidence to present in a court. E.g. "How did you obtain the data. Err, I stole it from the customer your Honour." If I was Nissan, I would not go there.
> 
> ...


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## Philip (Jan 17, 2002)

Whatever happens, Nissan GB (and elsewhere) would be wise to look at the PR disaster caused by this in the US. It only takes a couple of people to spread rumours across the internet.

If there's a software problem (which looks most likely from what I've read) they should have made sure it was sorted sooner.

Phil


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## obzi (Feb 19, 2008)

The 'black box' will have already been played with by many experts, they will be running rings around the software by now and i wonder what would happen if it was wiped clean of any history.

No history - no proof of how the car has been used, what buttons had been pressed, etc.
I can't imagine it will be beyond them to manipulate the information to show it hasn't been launched, VDC hasn't been switched off, etc

How long before someone turns up at a dealership with a damaged gearbox/transmission and a history that's mysteriously disappeared?


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## TomTomGTA (May 13, 2008)

Well obzi, that's exactly what happenend to my father's F430, I was driving round Spa for 45 min. and suddenly 1st gear only, then bang, and lots of bits and pieces on the track. I had used launch control twice that day (afterwards we were told, "LC once = NO warranty on everything drivetrain, except engine, not that it's written anywhere...).
But as the car was towed by a belgian dealer and stayed there for 1-2 weeks, the black box memory was erased because of the battery (they drain pretty fast in these cars). So Ferrari's statement was, no history, no warranty, 'cause they said they couldn't see if it had been deliberately erased or by another problem.
And I paid for a new gearbox (I still do actually)

It's like that with those carmakers and either we get used to it or we don't, they've got far better lawyers than we could ever afford, just keep that in mind.

Cheers


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## markM3 (Jan 7, 2008)

Doesn't the 60ft time incl a .4sec reaction time which can be deducted?

Cheers,


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## GT-Racer (Apr 4, 2008)

TomTomGTA said:


> It's like that with those carmakers and either we get used to it or we don't, they've got far better lawyers than we could ever afford, just keep that in mind.
> 
> Cheers


Complete BS!!


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## Rich-GT (Apr 2, 2008)

Reaction time separate from 60 Ft time, and all other times. You can sit on the line as long as you like without affecting the times, you just won't win the race.


Rich


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## TomTomGTA (May 13, 2008)

Well it might be BS, but it happened to me, and there was no discussion possible whatsoever (actually the dealer was very uncomfortable with the situation and made me pay only 50% of the labor).

Cheers


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## Fuzzy (Jun 2, 2007)

Sorry but no idiots work at Nissan. No easy warranty change of the transmission.

Before Nissan change a transmisson all will checked.

I dont`t understand many mates.
First is the question vdc off = no waranty
Now how we can make the blackbox clear?:GrowUp:

Sorry a amateur can see if the transnisson is broke if it comes from LC.


Use LC, clear blackbox and good luck :chuckle:


Make what nissan want and the transmission don`t brake :thumbsup:


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## Armed English (Mar 18, 2008)

!!!


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

Rich-GT said:


> The 1/4 is ok for LC off, but 2.08 sec for the 60 Ft:chuckle: time is poor and shows the problem of launching an automatic without LC.
> Even my standard Subaru Impreza could do a 1.7 sec 60 Ft.
> 
> 
> Rich


I remember back in '98 performance car measured a standard impreza turbo maximum accelerative G force at 1.1g which as I remember was faster than anything else they had measured other than an F1 car. Some of these '90s 4 wheel drive cars were unbeatable away from the line....didn't the audi RS2 get from 0-30mph quicker than a McLaren F1?


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## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

axolotl said:


> I remember back in '98 performance car measured a standard impreza turbo maximum accelerative G force at 1.1g which as I remember was faster than anything else they had measured other than an F1 car. Some of these '90s 4 wheel drive cars were unbeatable away from the line....didn't the audi RS2 get from 0-30mph quicker than a McLaren F1?


As a man who deals with numbers all day, I recall:

RS2 - 1.7s
F1 - 1.9s

All from memory, so I await the shotguns!

David


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## axolotl (May 29, 2008)

lol i think it was RS2 1.4, F1 1.5....even slouches like the F355 could manage 1.7


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