# Who puts the trans in Neutral at the lights?



## maxzugkraft (Feb 25, 2008)

Should we pop the trans into Neutral when we are temporarily stopped at the traffic lights?
Would this reduce wear and tear on the clutch and tranmission?
Or would it be more harmful to be flicking from N to D to N to D to........
The car has a dialled in creep when idling, which means the clutch must be partially engaged.


----------



## T80 GTR (Jan 10, 2010)

maxzugkraft said:


> Should we pop the trans into Neutral when we are temporarily stopped at the traffic lights?
> Would this reduce wear and tear on the clutch and tranmission?
> Or would it be more harmful to be flicking from N to D to N to D to........
> The car has a dialled in creep when idling, which means the clutch must be partially engaged.


I pop mine in N when waiting for lights etc..


----------



## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

<1min keep in D

>1min put in N as clutch plate can burn as it is partially is engaged.


----------



## KingOfTheGT-R (May 21, 2011)

Hmmm maybe i should put mine in neutral? i always keep my foot on the brake and get off fast.


----------



## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

I stick mine in neutral if going to be sitting there for any more than 10/15 seconds...


----------



## Austin (Sep 30, 2010)

Yeah, if I'm going to be waiting a while I put it in Neutral. It does make a hell of a clunk going back into Drive sometimes....the whole car moves!


----------



## bobel (Jul 26, 2010)

Was often wondering this myself, the mighty clunk always put me off as despite the fact that the clunks are normal you never get a clunk where something is not getting worn, does the trade off between clutch wear and D-N-D clunk pay off??? Personally I don't know enough about the GR6 to decide??? but the clutches are technically a consumable even though they have an extremely long life, but I do agreed for a long term stop it theoretical makes sence to shift to N to save the clutch, or alternatively dial out the creep and live with a slightly jumpy pull off (probalby not good for GR6 either)

So in summary I haven't a clue!!!:runaway:


----------



## MidLifeCrisis (Apr 29, 2011)

I stay in gear with hand brake on believing the lack of flywheel / bell housing rattle is preferable. MY11 _appears_ to sense engine idle after a few moments, and relaxes the clutch packs. May just be my cars trans set up? No idea :runaway:


----------



## ROG350Z (Jun 15, 2008)

Always into N as whole car seems to drop 'tension' (odd but best way I can describe).

As long as you dont put into drive with foot off brake it doesn't 'thud' back in too badly?


----------



## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

Neutral when stopped.


----------



## KingOfTheGT-R (May 21, 2011)

MidLifeCrisis said:


> I stay in gear with hand brake on believing the lack of flywheel / bell housing rattle is preferable. MY11 _appears_ to sense engine idle after a few moments, and relaxes the clutch packs. May just be my cars trans set up? No idea :runaway:


 Id imagine so... it could have be revised as they knew little things like this called cause problems on the old models and they didn't want it to affect new models?


----------



## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

neutral when stopped at traffic light, parked longer than 1min, working on the car while car is running.


----------



## MidLifeCrisis (Apr 29, 2011)

KingOfTheGT-R said:


> Id imagine so... it could have be revised as they knew little things like this called cause problems on the old models and they didn't want it to affect new models?


Quite possibly yes, my car is happy sitting in gear at lights, and there is little if any idle creep. Does not lump into gear either, can't really tell you shifted from N to D.


----------



## countvonc (Feb 11, 2009)

I thought that if you had your foot on the brake that it disengaged the clutch.


----------



## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

countvonc said:


> I thought that if you had your foot on the brake that it disengaged the clutch.


In theory it does, however in a high powered car the clutch settings need to be higher to prevent it from slipping, therefore it's best to engage neutral to stop unnecessary wear on the clutch, especially if stopping for a prolonged period in traffic.


----------



## DWC (May 18, 2009)

uhh i dont believe iv ever used Neutral. Straight from P to D for 2 years with no probs.


----------



## MD7 (May 7, 2011)

Only 2 days into ownership of my 1st GT-R and already got my first top tip from this forum. Never had anything but manual cars before, so this sort of thing is all new.


----------



## anilj (Jan 30, 2010)

Assuming you dont put in Neutral, how long is the typical life of the dual-clutch then? Has anyone so far had to replace their clutch for normal wear and tear without the car being tracked...


----------



## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

Personally I doubt the wear whilst stationary is significant, it is a wet-plate clutch, so wear will be a lot lower.

There are many manufacturers who make cars with these type of gearboxes and not a single one recommends you use neutral when stopped. Obviously if you are going to be stationary for a long-time it makes sense, but I only ever did it to rest my foot.

No-one has yet had any instances of clutch wear or replacement anywhere in the world as far as I can tell, so this just seems a bit crazy to me. What next -advising GTR owners not to wear their tyres so much by cornering slower and to save brakes by braking gently. Seriously guys, if you're worried about clutch-wear at the traffic lights then you've bought the wrong cars


----------



## MidLifeCrisis (Apr 29, 2011)

Far as I can see from exploded views, the GR6 uses virtually identical clutch packs to a typical auto trans. Given clean cool oil these last almost indefinitely. IMHO clutch pack ware in gear at lights will be insignificant.


----------



## GTRSTAR (Nov 26, 2009)

Guy said:


> Personally I doubt the wear whilst stationary is significant, it is a wet-plate clutch, so wear will be a lot lower.
> 
> There are many manufacturers who make cars with these type of gearboxes and not a single one recommends you use neutral when stopped. Obviously if you are going to be stationary for a long-time it makes sense, but I only ever did it to rest my foot.
> 
> No-one has yet had any instances of clutch wear or replacement anywhere in the world as far as I can tell, so this just seems a bit crazy to me. What next -advising GTR owners not to wear their tyres so much by cornering slower and to save brakes by braking gently. Seriously guys, if you're worried about clutch-wear at the traffic lights then you've bought the wrong cars


I don't think it's a case of buying the wrong car, it's a case of being "mechanically sympathetic" :chairshot

Now, who wants to buy Guys car when he's finished with it?... Anyone?! :nervous:


----------



## BHopper (Sep 30, 2001)

In my experience, when you have your foot on the brake, at stand still, it completely disengages the clutches.

I have to "creep" the GTR into a very narrow garage, and on the several occasions that I come to a stop, and then take my foot off the brake to continue, it takes half a second or so to re-engage the clutches and start creeping forward.

I agree with Guy...unless you need to rest your foot, there is no damage to be done by keeping in D with your foot on the brake.

Ben.


----------



## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

BHopper said:


> In my experience, when you have your foot on the brake, at stand still, it completely disengages the clutches.
> 
> I have to "creep" the GTR into a very narrow garage, and on the several occasions that I come to a stop, and then take my foot off the brake to continue, it takes half a second or so to re-engage the clutches and start creeping forward.
> 
> ...


This. The clutch is automatically disengaged when the foot brake is applied, so no appreciable wear can occur. Not sure about if the handbrake is applied though, so maybe that's not such a good idea.

BTW, Guy sold his ages ago and hasn't stopped moaning about the GT-R since!


----------



## KingOfTheGT-R (May 21, 2011)

David.Yu said:


> This. The clutch is automatically disengaged when the foot brake is applied, so no appreciable wear can occur. Not sure about if the handbrake is applied though, so maybe that's not such a good idea.
> 
> BTW, Guy sold his ages ago and hasn't stopped moaning about the GT-R since!


 Would that apply to all models or just 11's and up?


----------



## Guy (Jun 27, 2001)

David.Yu said:


> BTW, Guy sold his ages ago and hasn't stopped moaning about the GT-R since!


Very true. 

It was one of the greatest cars I've ever owned and the best all-rounder in the world IMHO, but that doesn't stop me moaning about a few stupid basic things they should have dealt with better, namely the overheating and the servicing (which seem at last to have been made better on the 2011s).

Hey David, in this thread I'm on Nissans side!


----------



## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

What about the OEM clutch seals that breaks? 

Has anyone had an issue with it?


----------



## OldBob (Oct 18, 2010)

Longer than 10 sec - N. old habit no downside..?


----------



## sidepipe (Jan 27, 2010)

Personally I've previously always used the handbrake when I stop in manual cars, though it seems I'm in the minority... I must say doing that makes it very difficult to creep forwards at the lights which seems to be an essential part of the highway code 

It seems even the manufacturers frown on the handbrake these days, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if Nissan made it compulsory to sit with your foot on the brake rather than using that evil device, unless of course you put the car in neutral.


----------



## mickv (May 27, 2009)

A while back I recall a post form Thistle that said the clutch is automatically disengaged when you depress the brake in first. But, if you sit at the lights in first, depress the brake and then select N, there is a definite increase in tick over revs, suggesting less friction in the drivetrain somewhere. So, I tend to select N, but I suspect it makes little difference. Has anyone checked what the manual says :runaway: ?


----------



## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

I use N + handbrake at hill traffic lights. Anyone handbrake LC?


----------



## christer (Jul 16, 2010)

I put it in neutral when it looks like I will be stationary for 30 secs+.....again it does take the "tension" out of the drivetrain (one can feel it).


----------



## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

When the traffic light goes yellow I am already preparing to put in ''N''. :runaway:


----------



## goRt (May 17, 2011)

enshiu said:


> When the traffic light goes yellow I am already preparing to put in ''N''. :runaway:


Light phasing means they're about to go green :thumbsup:


----------



## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

lol yes.


----------



## iksvo (Sep 29, 2006)

BHopper said:


> In my experience, when you have your foot on the brake, at stand still, it completely disengages the clutches.
> 
> I have to "creep" the GTR into a very narrow garage, and on the several occasions that I come to a stop, and then take my foot off the brake to continue, it takes half a second or so to re-engage the clutches and start creeping forward.
> 
> ...


I have the same experiance! Foot on brake - completely disengaged! 
The same in R.

If I stand for a longer bit of time I put in P.... but for a shorter while I also pop it in N if I know I have to go off soon.


----------



## deerhunter (Dec 7, 2009)

i normally leave car in drive as i hate the way the whole car clunks when shifting from N to D ,


----------



## sidepipe (Jan 27, 2010)

deerhunter said:


> i normally leave car in drive as i hate the way the whole car clunks when shifting from N to D ,


I've now read this a few times in this thread ( i.e. the car clunks putting it in to neutral. )

I pretty much always pull the handbrake if I'm going to stop for more than a second or so, and put it into N if it's likely to be much longer, and I've noticed no difference to how the car "tugs" whether using foot or hand brake ( it doesn't seem to at all ) and no clunking when taking it in or out of N. Could this be a difference in the programming of the transmission on the 2011 cars? Maybe it now fully disengages the clutch when you stop, whereas it doesn't in earlier models?


----------



## Protegimus (Aug 31, 2011)

I also put it in N with the handbrake on if I'm stationary and don't experience a clunk changing from D-N or N-D either.

As others have said, it's about being sympathetic to the mechanics - takes the tension out of the drivetrain so you can fully enjoy your lightweight flywheel and more importantly means I'm not sitting with hot pads clamped on brake discs that crack...

Page 5-20 of the manual says put it in P or N if you're stationary for long periods, so no downside.
Don't worry about being away slowly, everyone is so busy fannying on with their phones they all miss red & amber anyway :wavey:

Protegimus


----------



## enshiu (Aug 20, 2010)

Protegimus said:


> I also put it in N with the handbrake on if I'm stationary and don't experience a clunk changing from D-N or N-D either.
> 
> As others have said, it's about being sympathetic to the mechanics - takes the tension out of the drivetrain so you can fully enjoy your lightweight flywheel and more importantly means I'm not sitting with hot pads clamped on brake discs that crack...
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:


----------



## GTR_JED (Sep 21, 2009)

David.Yu said:


> This. The clutch is automatically disengaged when the foot brake is applied, so no appreciable wear can occur. Not sure about if the handbrake is applied though, so maybe that's not such a good idea.
> 
> BTW, Guy sold his ages ago and hasn't stopped moaning about the GT-R since!


Interesting you mention the handbrake. I put the handbrake on recently when the car was still in gear and after taking off the handbrake I felt that it took a moment for the gear to engage when pulling away...


----------



## Eric Laybourne (Apr 27, 2009)

I put mine in N at lights - saves clutch wear and improves mpg . Dealer can dial out creep if you leave it in drive which personally I like - as you know if you want creep you can induce it with throttle but it's a preference I suppose .....


----------



## Tariq (Mar 24, 2008)

Neutral when stopped regardless off what car im driving. Just a habit over the years off motoring.


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Tariq said:


> Neutral when stopped regardless off what car im driving. Just a habit over the years off motoring.


Me too, and handbrake on/foot off the clutch.
Must be the PSV driver in me. :thumbsup:

The GTR is very good, better than most autos as you don't have to press the footbrake to drop it back into D. You can just do it and take the handbrake off and away you go.
Usually you can't and must have a foot on the brake pedal before changing.


----------



## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

In Neutral, handbrake on - its the law when stopped at RED traffic lights !!!


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Steve said:


> In Neutral, handbrake on - its the law when stopped at RED traffic lights !!!


The law?
Are you sure?


----------



## sumo69 (Mar 31, 2008)

Steve's law - he is a rule onto himself!!

Has anyone noticed who has the MY11 software that the creep seems stronger than with the original software?

D


----------



## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

CT17 said:


> The law?
> Are you sure?


Yep, read your highway code again + as this thread suggests there is "creep" if the car is left in D. At a RED traffic light you should be STOPPED, which is clearly stated as the car in Neutral and the Handbrake on.


----------



## David.Yu (Jun 28, 2001)

sumo69 said:


> Steve's law - he is a rule onto himself!!
> 
> Has anyone noticed who has the MY11 software that the creep seems stronger than with the original software?
> 
> D


Yes it's been mentioned. You have to apply quite a bit of pressure on the brake to hold the car still, hence I have now taken to putting it into N whenever I'm stopped.

Ben when is CC and TP for the 2011 software coming to Cobb? That might allow us to tune the creep down a bit.
I don't remember the 2011 cars I drove having such strong creep.


----------



## goRt (May 17, 2011)

Steve said:


> Yep, read your highway code again + as this thread suggests there is "creep" if the car is left in D. At a RED traffic light you should be STOPPED, which is clearly stated as the car in Neutral and the Handbrake on.


The reason being - if you're hit from behind, your foot comes off the brake and clutch and off you go!!!

Nothing here about the brake:
Road junctions (170-183) : Directgov - Travel and transport


----------



## Naranja (Dec 4, 2008)

sumo69 said:


> Steve's law - he is a rule onto himself!!
> 
> Has anyone noticed who has the MY11 software that the creep seems stronger than with the original software?
> 
> D


David, my (actual) MY11 definitely has more creep than my previous 09 (so presumably exactly the same as the software upgrade). It's actually just about perfect for me, makes slow speed manoeuvres much easier and pulling away smoother (unless you're flooring it, when it doesn't really matter!).


----------



## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

goRt said:


> The reason being - if you're hit from behind, your foot comes off the brake and clutch and off you go!!!
> 
> Nothing here about the brake:
> Road junctions (170-183) : Directgov - Travel and transport


And the definition of stopped is - car in neutral with handbrake applied, hence you do not keep your foot on the footbrake for the reason as you have stated because if in gear and hit from behind "off you go" And it Is just plain common sense – isn’t it ?


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Steve said:


> Yep, read your Highway Code again


I thought I was fairly familiar with the highway code.

You do know the Highway Code is not law don't you?
The only parts of it that are law are when the sentance includes the word *MUST* typed in bold.

Otherwise it's just advice. :thumbsup:
I can't see anything that says you *MUST* put the car in neutral and apply the handbrake when you stop. But happy to be proved wrong. 
Common sense... yes. Law... ?

For example:



> 171. You *MUST* stop behind the line at a junction with a Stop sign and a solid white line across the road. Wait for a safe gap in the traffic before you move off.


This is law.



> 182. Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle.


This is NOT law.

-----------------

However, I find most people use this version now... http://www.st-1100.com/highway-code.html


----------



## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

As I also indicated COMMON SENSE say to any normal person that if your car creeps especially at a red light, put it in Neutral with the handbrake on, but some do not have much COMMON sense !LOL


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Steve said:


> As I also indicated COMMON SENSE say to any normal person that if your car creeps especially at a red light, put it in Neutral with the handbrake on, but some do not have much COMMON sense !LOL


Yes, I know. That's why I do it. 

I was just questioning when you stated:


Steve said:


> In Neutral, handbrake on - its the law when stopped at RED traffic lights !!!


Then you replied that I should read the highway code when I asked if it was really the law. :thumbsup:

Not having a go, just trying to clear up if it is the law or not. Doesn't look like it is.


----------



## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

CT17 wasn't aimed at you & I am not having a go at you my friend. 
But it makes sense, especially if your car is an automatic and creeps . As far as I am aware and my sister is a driving instructor, when at red lights the car should be completely stopped, put into neutral and the handbrake applied - it's the law she tells me !


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

Best Fred Eva


----------



## GRowsell (Feb 6, 2007)

Steve said:


> my sister is a driving instructor.......... it's the law she tells me !


My brother is a Doctor, and you should hear some of the crud he preaches :chairshot

Thankfully, Google and Wikipedia make him a humble pie eater when challenged


----------



## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

Mookistar said:


> Best Fred Eva


 :thumbsup:

I am the law!


----------



## Windrush (Feb 21, 2011)

One advantage leaving the trans in neutral with handbrake engaged, following drivers don't
get the brake lights dazzling them. That is assuming you lift off the brake pedal.


----------



## james1 (Aug 23, 2010)

the highway code isn't the law, but contains many points from law.

when a stop becomes a wait.....use the handbrake! ; )

you would fail your driving test for not applying the handbrake when the car has come to a halt.....

its taken me a while to get out of the bad habits of not wearing the seatbelt, i m building up to the handbrake thing.

j.


----------

