# money no object Best Brakes? (R32)



## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

wotcha!

are these brembo F50's really that good?

i thought ap's were the best so i bought the 343mm 6 piston kit
but the grex 330mm 4 pots i put on the rear totally put them to shame, so i'm keeping the ap calipers and switching to grex 355mm discs, on the advice of rod

could i do any better?

the car is an R32 on R33 gtr 17" rims, rod says he can fit a spacer to enable the running of bigger discs

i'd love to go up to 18" rims if i believed it wouldn't have negative effects on the handling, so if i'm wrong please learn me good?

car gets death every night, handling therefore is everything or she'll kill me

love gav


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

migs runs f50s on his rx7 cant fault them, the newera s15 runs f50s

good brakes

cost around £800 (for r33gtr set up) i assume the32s would be the same


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## Adey (May 14, 2007)

Alcons seem to work well, I have spoken to a few who use them. Im not sure about the GREX caliper, if may be suspect to flex as it does not have bracing or anything like that where as the Alcon iirc is a once peice unit.


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## Rain (Apr 8, 2006)

Id buy a set of Brembo GT-R brakes, titanium heat shims built in!

i think about 12,000USD for a front and rear set


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## ZXSpectrum (Feb 27, 2002)

Dave Wilkins has the 355Grex setup and they are monsters...


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## r33 v-spec (May 24, 2002)

I have heard nothing but positive comments about the Brembo setup especially the new monoblock type caliper.


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

> Alcons seem to work well, I have spoken to a few who use them. Im not sure about the GREX caliper, if may be suspect to flex as it does not have bracing or anything like that where as the Alcon iirc is a once peice unit.


Thought the Trust (Grex) brakes WERE Alcon???

TT


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## markyboy.1967 (Feb 14, 2004)

*Grex*

Nope they arent the Alcon calipers, they are a 2 piece design .The discs are superb. I will post up a few pics to let peeps see the discs better....


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## markyboy.1967 (Feb 14, 2004)

*Grex brakes*

Here are a few pics of the 355mm Grex brakes for the GTR...


































On the car-


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

good brakes are the grex doing those now guys for £1500


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## GTRules (Oct 20, 2005)

hi.anybody know the best 10 pot brakes for front and 6pot for rear?(track spec 33gtr)


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## r33 v-spec (May 24, 2002)

I think Endless do 10pot calipers IIRC.

Edited to say seems they only do an 8 or 12 pot, and not 10.


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## Kanzen (Aug 2, 2007)

Given the choice I'd go for Brembo or AP.

I have the new Brembo 6-pot monoblocks on my GT-R and they're great. Had the F-50 kit on my Supra and it was very good, but there's a lot more feel with the 6-pots.

10-pot and 12-pot brakes are unecessary IMO.


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

thankyou guys, some great feedback there

sounds like i'm not a million miles off the right track

i'll give the ap/grex hybrids a little while and then report back

gav


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## Toby Broom (Aug 25, 2003)

I'd say Brembo, Alcon, Stoptech, AP are all good.

I was goign to get some Alcon's but Sean made a good comment, "How many OEM's, race cars do you see with Alcon's?"


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## chris singleton (Jul 20, 2005)

Stoptech front and rears on my R34 and they're awesome. Had Ap's on my R33 and they were also excellent but can't really compare as I only had the fronts.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

What sort of money are the Stoptechs?


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## Adey (May 14, 2007)

How much are just the GREX front disks and bells? Also what AP caliper and fittings are needed to make a hybrid?


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## ozwort (May 7, 2004)

i got ap 6pot 378x36mm on my r32gtr road car out do most brakes. ap are the world leading manufacturer in racing brakes end of. so if money no object get the biggest set of aps on m8 TRUST


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## Barrie (Jan 31, 2006)

These grex ones used to be made by alcon but not anymore because they were able to produce them cheaper in japan - so that is where they are made now .

we trashed the discs in 3 laps at donnington - never seen a discs in such a bad state after so little time . i know they are on a powerful car , but i wasnt immpressed at all - we are about to change our set up after wasting £2500.

we run PF on another track r32 on brembo's and they work perfect and that is also on a big bhp car . I also run alcons on my 650 bhp evo which we dont have an issue with either


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## jumpman023 (Sep 29, 2005)

Does anyone have any experience with the Endless 6pots? 355mm discs...


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

jumpman023 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the Endless 6pots? 355mm discs...


Thrust


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

My Stoptechs are stunning...................355mm x 35mm on the front and 355mm x 32mm on the rear. Comes with calipers, pads, braided lines and rotors. Takes about 3-4 hours to change out the factory brakes, well on a 34 it did anyhow.

So well balanced compared to others GTR's that I've driven.......... reasonably priced and proven solution. 

Abbey Motorsport can give you a price I think.


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## Fast Guy (Jan 26, 2003)

Money no object? At least £2K per corner OK then?

Ceramic Brake Systems from SystemST


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## tarmac terror (Jul 16, 2003)

Barrie said:


> we trashed the discs in 3 laps at donnington - never seen a discs in such a bad state after so little time . i know they are on a powerful car , but i wasnt immpressed at all - we are about to change our set up after wasting £2500.


Barrie - can you just confirm WHICH discs these were??? Just so I can avoid them :chuckle:

I really rate the Alcon brakes. Had some on a previous car and they were fantastic.



> I was going to get some Alcon's but Sean made a good comment, "How many OEM's, race cars do you see with Alcon's?"


I think you'd be surprised TBH

TT


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## xaero1 (Feb 9, 2004)

matty32 said:


> migs runs f50s on his rx7 cant fault them, the newera s15 runs f50s
> 
> good brakes
> 
> cost around £800 (for r33gtr set up) i assume the32s would be the same


Seriously? £800? 

Where?


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

matty32 said:


> migs runs f50s on his rx7 cant fault them, the newera s15 runs f50s
> 
> 
> cost around £800 (for r33gtr set up) i assume the32s would be the same




Where from? Myself and Adey want a set for a Gtr 33.:clap:


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## Barrie (Jan 31, 2006)

tarmac terror said:


> Barrie - can you just confirm WHICH discs these were??? Just so I can avoid them :chuckle:
> 
> I really rate the Alcon brakes. Had some on a previous car and they were fantastic.
> 
> ...




the discs came with the grex kit , dont know who makes them 

we are still testing these brakes - now on new bells and discs with differant pads that we know work. 

after this weekend i will let you know the results and whether they last and what caused the problem 

if they dont work on these pads we then know they are total shit and shouldnt be sold for track use !, but i will give them the benifit of the doubt until we have tried and tested them with other pad material that we know works on another r32 that runs similar power and set up.


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

i kicked the shit out of mine (rears) and they loved it, ran fine with pagid blues, trying endless or ds2500's next but the pagids were pretty damn good

the rear pads lasted me as long as a set of tyres, 1500 miles or six weeks, and were wearing about twice the rate of my fronts, which i'm told is an indicator of a smooth driving style :thumbsup: 

i would bet it's going to be down to pad or setup issues, barrie- these are the brakes of choice for rb, with many satisfied customers including staff, they're tried and tested with lots of hard miles completed and no probs


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

I'd say the World Challenge car with 4 pot monoblock Brembos on the front, and stock N1 rears would out brake ANY other brake setup out there. Out brake ANY number of pots, any sized rotors, and I would like for someone to try and proven me wrong. Prove to me why another setup would work better.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

canman said:


> My Stoptechs are stunning...................355mm x 35mm on the front and 355mm x 32mm on the rear. Comes with calipers, pads, braided lines and rotors.


We started the season with Stoptech front rotors and rear rotors. By the end of the season we got rid of the Stoptech front rotors. They really had problems with the heat that we would put into them racing. They end up looking pretty terrible after a couple of our short sprint races. We ended up paying the extra money for the Brembo rotors, and there is a difference.

I guess the Italians build/spec better brakes than the Chinese.


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## Snowfiend (Jul 11, 2006)

I've driven an R34GTR with Brembo 'Enzo' Calipers and 370mm rotors and I have to say I was a bit disappointed, didnt stop anywhere near as good as my 355mm Stoptech kit.

I dont even want to get dragged in to the Brembo OEM vs others arguement...there are lots of good set ups out there which perform quite simular (Stoptechs, Grex, AP, Brembo etc)

Best brakes I've ever felt in a Skyline (and I've been in quite a few being pushed hard round a track) is John Fuggles AP 6 Pot/4 Pot set up....he jumped on the brakes at the end of a drag run and it stopped so hard it actually hurt my collar bone ! LOL

Money no object, then you've got to look at the carbon ceramic options I guess...IMHO


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

Im still trying to get my head around someone asking about brakes to suit an R32 and someone mentioning an rx7 which probably weights 66% of an R32 , so Im wondering what the relevance is ....
Gavmans 3.0 litre is so choked with those small turbo's it hardly makes any power so the standard brakes should be fine .....
LOL


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

i thought my disco potatoes were too laggy for you, glen :chuckle: 

ps
saw the car you built for your lad, very nice


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

I built it for me , he co drives,and is learning to drive in it.
Broke the gearbox and discovered what kind of idiot would build an old school car and use an old gearbox you cant get parts for ......
In my defense it is an "indestructable" gearbox ..... (was)
GT-RS's ....
How many times have I said it now ?
My goddy only has R33 brembo's and flash pads, and seems to stop ok ....
But 343's would be pretty cool.
I dont think I could justify 355, I would have to throw away all my wheels and tires for a start ....
So it would be 5k for the brakes and 10 k for wheels and tires ....


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## Lono9885 (Apr 11, 2005)

Dude,

I got Endless 6 pots on the front of mine 355mm and I have to say they are awesome. They have twice now rescued me in situations where on the standard brakes or the 33 brembos I've experienced, I woulda been in some serious trouble. 

Endless can be pricey but imo I wouldn't have anything else now.

+ If they are good enough for Super GT etc they are good enough for me 

Cheers
Ad


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

GT-R Glenn said:


> I dont think I could justify 355, I would have to throw away all my wheels and tires for a start ....
> So it would be 5k for the brakes and 10 k for wheels and tires ....


here's the thing, but i'm going to struggle to explain it

if you can fit 343's then you should be able to fit 355's to 17's with the use of spacers
i run the oe r33 gtr 17" rims which just fit over the 343's, but rod can get the larger 355mm discs to fit under the same wheels with spacers, hence saving the cost of bigger rims, boots etc
if you want to know how that works, then

ask someone cleverer than me!

(try rb motorsport, 01704 822848)


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## NISFAN (Oct 11, 2003)

Gavman,
I don't think you can get an honest answer to your original question. Every driver has different use for thier car, and every driver is of different abilities. Therefore each will have thier own preference, whether that be serious track users, or posers that want nice shiny race lookalikeeee dinner plate brakes. People that want long lasting brakes whilst charging hard, or those that want instant bite for slow street use.

Also to throw a spanner in the works, the exact same brakes with a different set of pads will feel (and perform) completely different, so not all opinions will be relevant.

I bought strap drive AP's after reading about what Peter had to say about his ordeals. True I believe he only sampled AP, but if it's good enough for Peters track day needs, then would probably be good enough for me. 

Try searching for brake topic threads with contributions from Peter or Chris Wilson.

I'm sure with different pad types/setup you could get your 343 AP's to do the business. The next size up disc is also something like 1kg heavier per side. Not good to increase unsprung weight for no reason. And no, bigger is not always better.:thumbsup:


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Heres just the latest example of not being able to get a "big" brake upgrade to stop as well as a stock based brake .

Sport Compact Car Magazine October 2007. Page 112.

Stoptech tried twice to get their brakes to stop better than the stock Acura brakes, and missed it twice. Only a couple feet difference, but not as good as stock.

Good pads, good fluid, good ducting. If you want the car to stop, change the pads, bleed it, put some Castrol SRF fluid in it, and put some ducting to the center of the rotors after you take the brake shields off. I think you will save yourself several thousand dollars.


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## Lono9885 (Apr 11, 2005)

tyndago said:


> Heres just the latest example of not being able to get a "big" brake upgrade to stop as well as a stock based brake .
> 
> Sport Compact Car Magazine October 2007. Page 112.
> 
> ...


Mate fair play to them but they obviously haven't experienced stock 32 GTR brakes in a time of crisis...they are **** (to coin a phrase lol)...I tried all sorts of discs/pads/fluid etc with the standard 32 brakes...they remained sh1t.


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

tyndago said:


> Heres just the latest example of not being able to get a "big" brake upgrade to stop as well as a stock based brake .
> 
> Sport Compact Car Magazine October 2007. Page 112.
> 
> ...



I take it the test was done repeatedly to allow for brake fade? Would have thought stock rotors would hold too much heat?


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## xaero1 (Feb 9, 2004)

TREG said:


> Where from? Myself and Adey want a set for a Gtr 33.:clap:


I'm still waiting for a reply too.

If it's true you can get them for £800 then guess what I'll be buying next month... LOL.





Or is the £800 just for the discs? :runaway:


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## JAY-R32 (Sep 1, 2003)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'd like to know too opcorn:


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## Adam Kindness (Jun 22, 2002)

what 6pots are available in 343's as i'm pretty much comited to 17's (dont want spacers)

17x9 wheels with slicks
17x9 wheels with cut slicks


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

> Good pads, good fluid, good ducting. If you want the car to stop, change the pads, bleed it, put some Castrol SRF fluid in it, and put some ducting to the center of the rotors after you take the brake shields off. I think you will save yourself several thousand dollars.





Shorn / Wheres my beer ...?

355's would be cool but I doubt you drive your car hard enuff to use them ....


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Lono9885 said:


> Mate fair play to them but they obviously haven't experienced stock 32 GTR brakes in a time of crisis...they are **** (to coin a phrase lol)...I tried all sorts of discs/pads/fluid etc with the standard 32 brakes...they remained sh1t.


The standard R32 brakes may be a little lackluster for some, but it does depend on how you use them. For most street cars , pads, fluid, ducting would be enough.

I have the stock Brembo setup in my head, as thats normally what I start with, and most people think they need more than that.

I have had some fade in the canyons in an R32 GT-R Vspec with factory Brembos. Then I thought the problem was the brakes , Now I say the issue would be change the fluid, pads, and some ducting and it would have been fine.

Dont get sick watching this, hand held cameras suck... YouTube - R32 GT-R in the Canyons


Glenn - beer ? Me ? 

As far as brake fade goes, depends on the use of the vehicle a street car isn't really going to get into fade as you don't accelerate and threashold brake over and over.... unless thats just the way you drive. On the track, depends on the driver, but I love Castrol SRFfluid. Looks a lot better than the Motul 600 after a couple of laps on the track.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

xaero1 said:


> I'm still waiting for a reply too.
> 
> If it's true you can get them for £800 then guess what I'll be buying next month... LOL.
> 
> ...





Group buy it is then!!
Although noones rushing forward with these £800 brakes, maybe thats each side


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

> Glenn - beer ? Me ?





http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/81426-tyndago.html?highlight=tyndago


Actually Sean Beer Glenn !!!


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## xaero1 (Feb 9, 2004)

TREG said:


> Group buy it is then!!
> Although noones rushing forward with these £800 brakes, maybe thats each side


More like £800 for each piston, LOL

Seriously though, if he can find them at a decent price for a group buy then I'd be in.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

xaero1 said:


> More like £800 for each piston, LOL
> 
> Seriously though, if he can find them at a decent price for a group buy then I'd be in.




Thats 3 of us then


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

I'm convinced that brake setup is far more important. A question often asked - with as much work that I've done on my car, and how I've left virtually nothing untouched, why do I have "stock brakes"?

They're not quite stock. Endless rotors and pads. Motul brake fluid. APP braided lines. Once the pads are warm, I easily get the limit of adhesion for my tires (Kumho Ecsta SPT, a decent summer tire) and engage the ABS on dry road. I haven't tracked my car yet so I can't say much about fade. I've had two near-crashes, but both were due to cold brakes. I have never had to apply full force to my brake pedal in street driving (other than the two times with cold brake pads - Endless pads when cold are like vaseline on ice), and I will admit to have exceeded 100mph on city streets between stoplights, full controlled stops.

The telling factor for me and my brake setup is the tire lockup. Bigger brakes won't help, they'll just have me skidding the tires faster, and as I said, I never get to use my brakes full force as it is. Bigger brakes probably dissipate heat faster, but in city driving with high performance brakes, ironically, keeping heat in the brakes is important. I've learned that if the car is dead cold, I must drive dragging the brakes for 10 seconds to get some heat in them.

I'd be really interested in running my car in stopping tests against other R32s with big brake upgrades. Unfortunately weather, tarmac conditions, tire type and condition, as well as full laden weight are all variables that make over-the-internet comparison scientifically invalid.


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

NISFAN said:


> Gavman,
> I don't think you can get an honest answer to your original question. Every driver has different use for thier car, and every driver is of different abilities. Therefore each will have thier own preference, whether that be serious track users, or posers that want nice shiny race lookalikeeee dinner plate brakes. People that want long lasting brakes whilst charging hard, or those that want instant bite for slow street use.
> 
> Also to throw a spanner in the works, the exact same brakes with a different set of pads will feel (and perform) completely different, so not all opinions will be relevant.
> ...


Exactly what I would have said although Chris will tell you to spend a lot of money if you want good brakes.

I saw The DCY brake disks at Donington Time Attack and I was pretty worried as I had just had the same front setup on my car. The sprinting was ok of course (although it showed a weakness in the front end that was fixed with new tension rods) as I don't brake much  but I was expecting track sessions to wear the disks heavily. 
An evening at Donington Park went ok with no overheating, steering shake or pad deposits and good hard braking. Also brakes were fine at Bruntingthorpe and braking was from 146mph on straight.
I do carefully bed the pads in to try and get the disks free from any deposits before a track day but they are never perfect as I don't trailer my car. My disks are being worked as they always go a purpley colour front and back. They are the best I can afford at the moment but I bet that Chris Wilson would overheat them straight away Depends on how good you want your brakes to be?
Interested to see Barries comments after the weekend as I did speak to Rod about their disks as I did not want to see the same happening to me and he said it would n't? Not sure if it was the pads which Barrie will hopefully prove.


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

kismetcapitan said:


> The telling factor for me and my brake setup is the tire lockup. Bigger brakes won't help, they'll just have me skidding the tires faster


Well I'm sure that sounds logical, but that's not the reality of how it works from my experience.

The thickness of the rotors (35mm in my case) is important to the ability of them to cope with prolonged hard use (read Heat generated from a heavy car), which in turn leads to a consistent feel and level of bite from the brakes in general.

Also having the larger setup on my car has given much more progession to the brakes in the way you can apply them, and as such more control. So although the end result of clamping pressure might be the same, it certainly doesn't translate into equivilent "quality" of braking and "balance" that's so important when pushing hard on the road, or track days.

Sean, have to admit we also had the same issues you mention with the first couple of sets of stoptech rotors on our Targa R34, but on the third set we had a chat with Stoptech and they gave us some explicit instructions to follow when bedding in which were slightly different to the usual and it was all good for that set, so can only assume their tips worked !! 

Certainly for road use rather than heavy race use the Stoptech setup on my car has been stunning. The factory Brembo balance and braking force doesn't even come close and everyone who's driven my car agrees.

I've also driven a mates Nur spec with the Endless equivilent (rotors were floating though) and they were stunning too, just as well balanced, but he paid a fair bit more for his though, so I still think bang for buck the Stoptechs are an awesome buy.


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## GT-R Glenn (Nov 9, 2002)

> our Targa R34


Are you somehow asscociated with Joe ?


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## canman (Jul 7, 2001)

Yeah been mates with Joe and Kevin for a while and helped him and Kevin with getting their GTR / GTT sorted for the Targa. Some of my parts even found their way onto the car as well in those emergency moments !!!


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## R32Lee (Jan 18, 2007)

Barrie said:


> the discs came with the grex kit , dont know who makes them
> 
> we are still testing these brakes - now on new bells and discs with differant pads that we know work.
> 
> ...



Sorry Barrie, i'm confused  .....have you taken the GREX kit off and using something else for Brands this sunday?
If so, what are you using? and also importantly, what pads are you using?

Speaking to George at Silverstone he rates those PF discs and pads!!


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## davewilkins (Jun 30, 2001)

Did two 20 minute sessions at trax today. Had the engine oil up near 150 degrees (I was tryng) and front and back disks purple andf brakes were fine and no bad wear on the disk surface.


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## Bandit (Jul 2, 2004)

matty32 said:


> migs runs f50s on his rx7 cant fault them, the newera s15 runs f50s
> 
> good brakes
> 
> cost around £800 (for r33gtr set up) i assume the32s would be the same



Matty. Where can i pick up a set of F50 brembos for £800?? Need new brakes.


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## DRAGandDRIFT (Sep 20, 2006)

Bandit said:


> Matty. Where can i pick up a set of F50 brembos for £800?? Need new brakes.


Hi Bandit, 

Got a set of used Alcon 355mm calipers in stock, *Not the alcon that trust have, but the black good alcon brakes.

Can send you a photo.

New they were 440,000
PM me if your interested mate

Rick
[email protected]


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## pitbull (Sep 1, 2006)

how much are they now?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

ok, although I claim to be satisfied with my brake setup, these shoped up at the shop and **** me I creamed my pants. They're huge, but I'll find some way to shoehorn these things onto my car:

















8 pot fronts, 4 pot rears. d'oh. a wedding, a trip to the states, a Hayabusa, and these. All in one month. One of these is gonna have to go to make it work in the budget, any ideas how to break the news to the missus?


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## pitbull (Sep 1, 2006)

looks very nice


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

sean, i had a look at your R32 in the canyons vid, looks like fun.
however i can state confidentially that my brake useage on my local b-roads is a whole order of magnitude harder than that shown in the vid. there are two historic hill climbs on my nightly route, and i go down as well as up them. it is on the downhill sections that my brakes get some real stick, race pads last just as long as my tyres i.e. 1500 miles

plus on the narrow uk b-roads it is often necessary to scrub off most of your speed into the tighter bends to allow for traffic coming the other way, which is a vicious ordeal for a big car

point i'm making is my wear rates probably have more in common with the track cars that you look after. standard stoppers do not have the stopping power i require and they will suffer from fade less than a quarter of the way into my outward journey

for me brakes are every bit as much of a performance upgrade as fitting bigger turbos, and will probably have a greater impact on my lap/journey times, so i absolutely want the best i can afford :thumbsup:


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

Again your mileage will vary. I have faded the standard Brembos on an R32 in the canyons. Its not that fun of a feeling.

The bigger the brake rotor, the more heat it will be able to take and reject away from the pad. I just think its a balance and compromise.

Gavman, what pads and tires are you using if you are going though them every 1500 miles ?


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## gavman (Apr 12, 2006)

falken F452's, not known for their grip or longevity but incredibly progressive as they break away
pads were pagid blues

i have similiar wear rates on my mr-s also, with toyo T1 S tyres and carbotech or porterfield pads

on both cars tyres and pads need attention at the same mileage, but the rears wear first on the gtr whereas the mr-s wears them evenly

i'm not being previous either; my last set of tyres on the gtr went from brand spankers to wires showing in 1500 miles / six weeks


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## Bean (Oct 12, 2001)

kismetcapitan said:


> ok, although I claim to be satisfied with my brake setup, these shoped up at the shop and **** me I creamed my pants. They're huge, but I'll find some way to shoehorn these things onto my car:


Oh yeah! :thumbsup:


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