# LPG Converted GTRs?



## Fyrbeat (Dec 7, 2009)

Ive become obsessed with GTRs over the last couple of years, but sadly not yet owned one. Im in two minds whether to just go for it and gas-guzzle to the max before the inevitable pricing-out of petrol to the average person occurs, or whether there really is the option to convert or part-convert to LPG. Ive done a bit of research and it seems that the benefits of cost-reduction might outweigh the extra weight/install costs etc etc but I wondered if there are any owners of converted models here? I know a couple of people who've part-converted to LPG but their cars are volvo and other estates etc etc, so different ball game really. 

Im sure with the increasing rules & regs of trying to reduce petrol consumption there must be more conversion projects taking place now on performance cars? Are there are garages specialising or interested in carrying out such conversions?

Any and all info welcome, Cheers

Fyrbeat (Amber)


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## MartyV (Apr 19, 2009)

I thought you said LPG and GTR in the same sentence.


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

LPG conversion can be installed on a GTR and it will run fine except when its on boost, so when you want to give it the beans flick the switch over to petrol.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Why bother, buy a bloody Prius instead.

FFS.


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## Beirute-GTR (Nov 25, 2009)

Trev said:


> Why bother, buy a bloody Prius instead.
> 
> FFS.


I would recommend a G-Wiz electric match box, save the environment and fuel costs, and more important than that keep the Copenhagen delegates happy.


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## Swobber (Oct 8, 2006)

Hopenhagen, Cop15, whatever - they'll never agree on anything!

I thought LPG was for family containers.


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## Cris (Sep 17, 2007)

I have spoken to people who run LPG cars and they can be benefits. One chap was certain that it was better for the engine. Apparently the LPG is much cleaner than petrol.

Got to say it seems a weird thing to do to a GTR. I have considered it for a Stagea though, plenty of space in there for a nice big tank!


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## waynegts (Nov 23, 2006)

i know someone who had it running perfect on a gtst and swapped it for a gtr and said he was going to fit it to that, think hes on here and lives near nottingham. ronnie his name is


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## matty32 (Dec 18, 2005)

why the hell would you want to

geez some people

how about go the whole hog, buy a veyron and convert it to the devils fuel


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## M SKinner (Feb 19, 2007)

IF you could get proper liquid LPG injectors... not the usual ones that only inject it as a gas... andthat could cope with the fuel demands I think a 100+ octane fuel that CHILLS the intake charge I think it could work quite well! Especially at half the price of regular petrol.

Pity its not possible yet!


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## infamous_t (Jul 9, 2007)

Guy did it on the east coast to his 32 GTR, can't remember results.
Another guy locally to me did this to his R34 GTT. 
A lot of people down here got interested in LPG when petrol went thru the roof and the government was giving a $4K rebate for LPG conversions.


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

Regular benefits are, almost free to tax, its in the minimum tax band. No congestion charge to pay if your a regular traveller to Central London. Half price fuel to boot too. LPG also has a higher octane rating than petrol.....


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## Fyrbeat (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks guys, a lot of extra helpful information to consider there. Im no eco-warrior but I am considering all the options to help me get on the GTR ladder and stay there without going broke... we all know its only a matter of time before we're taxed out, priced out, by the government on anything other than Smartcars, and it would be nice to be able to run one of these lovelys one day soon! Im based in Cheshire & will keep my eye out for local meet-ups too as I can imagine its a good place to learn a thing or two


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## David (Apr 25, 2003)

I wonder if you could use a power FC or HKS equilavent to control the LPG injectors. I dont see why it should be much power less either as although LPG has a lower caloric value its octane rating is much higher and RB's are generally knock limited. Flow rate of injectors I think will be the main problem


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## MartyV (Apr 19, 2009)

Fyrbeat said:


> Thanks guys, a lot of extra helpful information to consider there. Im no eco-warrior but I am considering all the options to help me get on the GTR ladder and stay there without going broke... we all know its only a matter of time before we're taxed out, priced out, by the government on anything other than Smartcars, and it would be nice to be able to run one of these lovelys one day soon! Im based in Cheshire & will keep my eye out for local meet-ups too as I can imagine its a good place to learn a thing or two


If buying a GTR is going to make you flat broke just fueling it, then you really can't afford it.


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## DazGTR (Dec 5, 2007)

pupsi said:


> Regular benefits are, almost free to tax, its in the minimum tax band. No congestion charge to pay if your a regular traveller to Central London. Half price fuel to boot too. LPG also has a higher octane rating than petrol.....


So if every one went to lpg can u imagine all the revenue the government would lose...where would the extra come from? TAX on lpg would rise i gaurantee you that..


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

Agreed but it would take time, wouldn't happen overnight.


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## cleethorpes (Sep 30, 2008)

no doubt lpg prices would start to creep up a bit quicker if everyone started using it, and the congestion charge rules would probably also change.. after all the congestion charge is to reduce congestion??? can't see why lpg should be allowed to go free anyway.. you could get a 2 litre lpg tank installed, never use it and not have to pay the charge... that would be my method....


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## Fyrbeat (Dec 7, 2009)

Hmm i agree it's a case of trying to stay ahead, the government will always tax the most popular choices in life. Ive been running a diesel the past few years for work (lots of weekday mileage) and when I first started diesel costs were pretty far off petrol, yet since company cars and most households have changed to diesel in their masses the diesel/petrol gap has slimmed unfairly to catch the extra revenue. I say unfairly as my partner's an oil exploration worker and explains to me how much less the costs for refining diesel should be relatively. So im sure by the time LPG gets popular the price wouldve shot up too. I saw a (top gear?) episode on the development of the hydrogen cell car, and although it might only generate water at the back end I just couldnt get my head round the idea of it being used to power an enjoyable ride, at any point in the future. You'd have to install a recorded engine noise for a start! Back to LPG, ive heard there's going to be more conversion grants up for grabs next year so ill probably take a closer look into that and see where we end up.


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Save yourself the trouble and buy a Prius.

Don't RUIN a great car, FFS.


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## Fyrbeat (Dec 7, 2009)

Lol you already advised me to buy a prius Trev


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Fyrbeat said:


> Lol you already advised me to buy a prius Trev


Sorry mate, I should have said buy a G Whizz


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

If you want to drive a GTR but it needs to be done economically I have listed a few options for you

Fit a peugot diesel engine 

Fit a 1300cc escort engine 

De tune it to 200bhp and get it mapped for parafin 

drive it once a month

drive it round on a flat bed truck

Fit your GTR with a spineka

Only drive it when you have 3 passengers and charge them

buy a prius and get a fibreglass GTR bodykit made.

Last and my particular favourite 

Wait untill eveyone else has bought a prius, G whizz etc . 

The government will then stop taxing petrol (as no one is using it ) and start taxing batteries and hybrids . It wilkl then be cheaper to drive a GTR.


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## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

I'd ike to see what could be done LPG'ing a GTR. As some of the more positive posts have implied, as it's got higher RON and more cooling I'm sure someone could do a good job and end up with an LPG monster!


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## DeanN (Jun 2, 2007)

Probably the wrong forum to ask a question like this. There's too many wealthy types on here who forget that not all of us are rolling in money, but some of us are actually real world enthusiasts who have to consider costs.
If you are gonna use your Skyline everyday like I do, then it's worth considering LPG.
I'm thinking about it for my next car since I currently spend around £350 a month on Tescos finest.


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

As I said before, LPG is o.k on a GTR except when driving on boost. Solve the boost problem and I'm sure everyone on here will be running around in GTR's converted to LPG.


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## RSVFOUR (May 1, 2006)

Forgive my previous post - just could not resist it.

Seriously I know a few of the stageas have been converted and a surprising number have had problems.

AFAIK LPG runs hotter which is not good for a Rb as they are not the coolest of motors which is presumably one reason why boost is a probelm . 

These Stageas were low tuned (realtively) RB25s with auto boxes but there seems to be a problem as the type of injectors normally used with some conversions max out too easily. 
I would expect a higher revving rb26 engine producing more power and driven harder to be less suitable to convert especially as the revs (and therefore temp) is not kept low by the auto box . 
This is presuming you are going to run at a resonable power level say 300-350 . If not then I cant see the point


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## Bladebird (Dec 20, 2005)

why why why why why why why etc


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

pupsi said:


> Solve the boost problem and I'm sure everyone on here will be running around in GTR's converted to LPG.


I won't.

I LOVE petrol, give me 99 RON over tree hugging looney battery's and lpg any day :lamer:


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## Fyrbeat (Dec 7, 2009)

Dont worry I knew I was up for a bit of stick when I posted this thread. I do like RSVFOURs last suggestion though, although I maybe grey and immobile by the time petrol is cheap again :-D ooh and I paid a visit to the North West's GTR dealership Middlehurst at the weekend... why did I do it to myself! i want i want...


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## samuri (Jul 28, 2010)

You would be dumb not to go with LPG.

The power to weight ratio wont change perceptively unless you can percieve the difference between 7.37 secs and 7.27 secs driving at 12000 revs to the corner
If you can perceive the difference then you arent human and not eligible to hold a drives liscense.
Cleaner engine , cleaner oil cheaper and I believe more torque in the lower revs if Direct injection( I believe and correct me if I am wrong).
Those revheads of course base their knowledge and comments on prior experence with LPG and the latest technolgy , no doubt.


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## konvert (Jun 22, 2010)

just do whats been said in another thread, buy any old car and stick a GTR badge on it.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Why O Why do we have threads like this ??? 

If you are concerned about the running cost of a GTR or want to save the planet DON’T BUY ONE !!!!

A GTR is a performance car i.e. made for REAL driving and not poodling around to see how many mpg you can get out of it !

As stated if you are that concerned for either above go and buy a Prayus - Yes, I said PRAY-US as I Pray for the day that all these so called Eco vehicles are banned once and for all !!! Bloddy green sandal wearing hippies


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## Austrian GTR (Oct 28, 2008)

Steve said:


> Why O Why do we have threads like this ???
> 
> If you are concerned about the running cost of a GTR or want to save the planet DON’T BUY ONE !!!!
> 
> ...


:clap: :clap: :clap:

+1


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## samuri (Jul 28, 2010)

konvert said:


> just do whats been said in another thread, buy any old car and stick a GTR badge on it.


Those rev-heads of course base their knowledge and comments on prior experience with LPG and the latest technology , no doubt.:thumbsup:


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## samuri (Jul 28, 2010)

Steve said:


> Why O Why do we have threads like this ???
> 
> If you are concerned about the running cost of a GTR or want to save the planet DON’T BUY ONE !!!!
> 
> ...


Well mate, we have threads like this to share information rather than misinformation.
We also have threads like this so uninformed, dim-witted, autistic,brain dead, non lateral thinking, narrow minded,vacant spaced, uneducated,camel herding morons can be educated and broaden their outlook on life.

I have a few questions for you since you have made yourself an authority on performance.

How do you figure performance will be reduced, and if so by what amount?
How did you calculate this? 
Can you give acceleration differentials over different distances for up to 1 km? Where can I check this Intel?

How will overtaking times be affected from cruising speeds of 40km hr, 60km hr, 80km hr, 100km hr and 120 km hr?

How will breaking distance performance be affected?

How will cornering ability be affected? 
Will the extra weight over the back wheels hinder or help wet weather traction and stability?

I just returned from hospital for the third time in a 6 weeks. Each trip is a total of 1020km (road Speed restrictions are technically 130km/hr.)

I will go home at Xmas which will be 4980km return trip and will probably also visit the in-laws which will add another 3,100km on that round trip.

Of course on that trip, we would have overtaken a dozen or so road trains, 60metres in length also traveling at 130km/hr. Boost the turbo and take a flying run at it while it rocks side to side on the narrow highway.Having a bit of extra grunt is very nice , except if you are a hippy, apparently. We will then spend a few more weeks traveling and resting along the coast, before returning to my work location, so for me LPG is a no brainier.


Then again, next year we might do some serious traveling.

By the way did I tell you about the last 8000km round trip I did last holidays , on top of the normal city driving one does every day. Of course we will also travel extensively in the coming years.So I guess what you are saying is that running cost shouldn't be considered when taking the family of four for a drive. 

I doubt my effort will save the planet....anyway who cares; I will be dead before the planet is stuffed.

What research have you done on LPG and how many LPG vehicles have you had to determine the loss in performance?How can everyone be so sure your opinion is valid with just mere assertions?Where are your facts buddy?
I look forward to your informative and well researched reply to help me be......... more informed. 

BTW whats a BLoDDY green sandal?
Jesus loves you.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Someone has too much time on their hands


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## konvert (Jun 22, 2010)

samuri, i can just tell you were furious when you wrote that. proper stabbing the keyboard with your fingers as you typed. even sat up on the chair so you werent casually leaning back.


and because of this, id say: your points were interesting, but drop the steroids.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

konvert said:


> samuri, i can just tell you were furious when you wrote that. proper stabbing the keyboard with your fingers as you typed. even sat up on the chair so you werent casually leaning back.
> 
> 
> and because of this, id say: your points were interesting, but drop the steroids.


Yeah, leave the drugs alone or give some to me !!!


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## freakazoid3 (Jan 19, 2008)

If you get a GTR running on LPI; Good for you but the power will drop (although perhaps not by so much) and yes I have first hand experience with LPI-ed cars; 
My father owns one and the difference between driving on petrol or LPI is very feelable from the drivingseat 

Although for very long journey off boost I guess it won't hurt if you like to carry the extra weight from the system and extra clutter that comes with it :thumbsup:

So now go off and be a pioneer and get one up and running on LPI


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

samuri said:


> Well mate, we have threads like this to share information rather than misinformation.
> We also have threads like this so uninformed, dim-witted, autistic,brain dead, non lateral thinking, narrow minded,vacant spaced, uneducated,camel herding morons can be educated and broaden their outlook on life.
> 
> I have a few questions for you since you have made yourself an authority on performance.
> ...


At no point has Steve tried to criticize the benefits of LPG vehicles. His point is that if you want to run a GTR, don't try and do it on the cheap, they just aren't cheap to own and run!. Why buy one if economy is of such great concern?


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## GavGTR (Jan 12, 2004)

Its a case of the true GTR spiritualists keeping the faith Vs Lets give LPG a bash on the RB26's or VR38DETT.

The GTR (in which ever form) isn't a cheap car to run and will become more expensive as times moves on, moving it beyond more and more people as a result.

You can attempted to re-engineer the engine to run another fuel type (At some expense) - Great from a technical stand point/experiment for the goal of getting better economy. But if your goal is simply economy then running a cheaper car is always the best option. 

I actually run my GTR very little these days. I only really get it out for the odd track day or long road trip other than that it sits at home.

If money is no object and you have technical talent to give a proper LPG conversion ago, then I'd say go for it. If your goal is purely getting a car that runs with better economy perhaps another choice of car is on the cards.


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## mrjolly (Aug 1, 2009)

two pennys worth, driven a few lpg converted cars from suburu legacy turbo's to campervans etc, and yes when running on gas there is a performance loss. but when pottering around for your day to day stuff in a 300bhp car i cant see there being any problem if you lose 10-15 % of your power when running around for 2/3 the cost in fuel or less and when you need the full beans its just the flick of a switch to be on high octane petrol. i think it would be ace if a kit was readily available to us all just to have the choise. as some other posters have said there car sits there doing nothing for weeks at a time, i just think anything that would let us drive our cars more would be a large plus. 
heard it so many times , " i would love to take the skyline but it willl cost a fortune in fuel" 
so , anything is possible. me and my mate fitted a supercharger to a poxy french campervan with a 2.0l pugeot engine and a gas conversion. used a carb from a shihl saw to control the extra gas when boosting connected to a little actuator from a turbo . would go up hills in fourth that used to slow it to second gear. 
so technology is evolving and if enough people want something someone will try to supply it . i dont care what a skyline runs on as long as i am driving it.
sid
another drunken 1


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

I'm pretty sure that if a highly tuned GTR can safely be run on LPG, I for one would go for the conversion, as i would use it more frequently, do almost double the mileage for the same cost of petrol. I can also envisage the majority of GTR owners doing the same. Economically, it makes sense.


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

I personally see only 2 issues with running a GTR on LPG.
1) Only minor and that is the tank size, I think a 50ltr toroidal would be a good size giving you reasonable distance (anywhere around 2-300miles cruising) without raising the floor too high, not sure about other Skylines but the R33 has an angled wheel well so bracketry would be required to level this out purely to enable a working shut off fill valve and fuel pick up.

2) High RPM and power levels. Both of these are an issue for all except specialised LPG systems (and even these have their limits)
LPG injectors tend to top out around 28ms, this can easily be achieved way before you hit redline, much sooner on a higher output engine.
However LPG is a dry fuel so personally I would have the extra valve lubrication provided by petrol above a certain rpm.
I would be looking at low RPM/load running on LPG, and then auto switching to petrol at a given RPM/load to provide valve lubrication at higher revs.

There are many things to consider that would take ages to cover, for example...a liquid injection system would be great for any vehicle but even more so on a turbo'd car, LPG vaporizes at around -40 degrees, having this injected as a liquid would provide huge cooling benefits but unfortunately these systems are still in their infancy and have proven in the past to be problematic (Liquid injection was fitted on some Mondeo's, LDV vans etc and I regularly have to repair them, I wont give details for fear of boring people and sounding like an LPG geek LOL)
Vapour systems (pretty much all of the systems fitted to LPG'd vehicles) use big fat injectors which makes them very slow to operate in comparison to petrol injectors, LPG injectors are improving but they are still a big limitation.
LPG is supplied from the tank to the front end via either a copper or plastic flexi pipe, LPG components are all designed around this supply pipe being 6mm for standard application and 8mm for higher power application, this also becomes a restriction if you start looking at very high power output...a standard consideration when converting a vehicle would be upto around 250bhp you can get away with 6mm pipe, above 250bhp 8mm is needed, 500bhp plus??

These are only a few things to consider with LPG and high power engines, and to be honest I am very tired so struggling to concentrate now LOL

Personally as I said in my welcome thread, I can see the purists argument that an outright performance car is just that and economy isn't part of the equation when purchasing a GTR, however I also go along with the argument that you can have a performance car that can be driven cheaply.
Personally I have tuned my Volvo T5 to somewhere in the region of 300bhp, after trying out a few different LPG kits I fitted one that allows me to run on LPG all the way to the redline at 14psi if I choose, after 4 years and thousands of miles at 25p, 30p, 40p, and even now at around 55-60p a litre I have saved a lot of money (in fact all 4 of my vehicles run on LPG so I really have saved a fortune)
As for my newly acquired GTR, will I convert it to LPG? Almost certainly yes, I have only owned the car for 3 days so haven't fully decided yet but I imagine I will be running it on LPG up to around 4-5,000rpm or a given load that sees the LPG injectors starting to max out, then set it to auto switch to petrol for performance/high rpm giving me the upper lubrication from the petrol.
My Volvo runs to the redline on LPG and only ever runs on petrol at startup to warm up the gas vaporiser, however my thinking is that if the valves were to burn out at high RPM on the Volvo a replacement can be sourced at a very reasonable price, this isn't the case with the GTR engine so I will allow myself a large safety margin (I must say though that the Volvo engine is as sweet as it has ever been and shows absolutely no adverse affects from 4 years running on LPG)

I really must go to bed now as I am struggling to focus on the screen, let alone anything I am writing LOL

Edward.

P.S I should note that this is my opinion and in no way an attempt to 'sign people up for conversions' LOL I have suffered years of back problems from converting vehicles to run on gas (bloody heavy Range Rover tanks) so no longer offer LPG conversions as part of my business, purely LPG servicing and repairs with the odd front end conversion to update old and faulty systems.....don't want anyone to think I am trying to corner some GTR conversion market 




pupsi said:


> I'm pretty sure that if a highly tuned GTR can safely be run on LPG, I for one would go for the conversion, as i would use it more frequently, do almost double the mileage for the same cost of petrol. I can also envisage the majority of GTR owners doing the same. Economically, it makes sense.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

LPG all the way. The ONLY issue I found was room. The distance between the butterfly and head is very small, and to get another nozzle in there is a bit of a faf. Apart from that, it's no issue. I run 8mm pipe with a pair of 200hp evaporators.


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## gaaables (Mar 5, 2005)

Good effort lads with the info. I'm very intrestedbin hearing more about how the conversion goes. I use my car daily and often get stuck in big ques of traffic while my skyline drinks away at it's fuel whilst going practically no where. It would be ideal to be able to switch to lpg at times


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## simon tompkins (Aug 14, 2005)

just a point of issue pupsi said if you have a lpg conversion congestion charge is free in london,well im afraid it may not be unless your conversion is fitted by an approved dealer thats on the tfl (transport for london register) then you wont be allowed to enter the zone free,i no all these lpg conversions are done by reputable garages but they have to be on this register.



simon


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

Very interesting to hear. I will be following this thread.


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## DavidKnell (Apr 27, 2005)

I had my R32 GTR converted to run on LPG this year. Actually, "converted" is the wrong word - it'll run either on LPG or petrol, controlled by a button on the dash.

The system used has six LPG injectors slaved off the existing injectors, so it's a sequential system, and the fuelling's still mainly controlled by the original ECU.

It drives perfectly, and putting less than 30 euros of fuel in each time I stopped (every 200 miles or so) on my way down through France and Italy this summer put a big smile on my face. 

Downsides: no spare wheel, and I had to clear a load of old junk out of the boot to make room for the gas cylinder. Cost was about £1400, which I'll get back in < 15,000 miles.


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

How much extra weight would a sparewheel tank and all the LPG kit add to the car out of interest ? I assume most of the weight is the tank and that would shift the weight distribution backwards which doesn't seem a bad thing. Must admit anything that means that you can use the car more is appealing to me and a 400bhp LPG kit would be more than enough for long distance


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## pupsi (Aug 29, 2006)

simon tompkins said:


> just a point of issue pupsi said if you have a lpg conversion congestion charge is free in london,well im afraid it may not be unless your conversion is fitted by an approved dealer thats on the tfl (transport for london register) then you wont be allowed to enter the zone free,i no all these lpg conversions are done by reputable garages but they have to be on this register.
> 
> 
> 
> simon


When you have the system installed, your given a compliance certificate, which you fax off to TFL, who will then place your car on the register. Job done, no congestion charge......


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2001)

Girls, I can't beleive you are still discussing this !!! 

GTR = high octane fuel

LPG = Toyota Prius


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## DavidKnell (Apr 27, 2005)

Steve - LPG is a high octane fuel (about 110 RON, if I remember correctly), and I've always got the switch on the dash for when I want to downgrade to 97 RON ;-)

And mambastu - the whole system weighs in at <50kg empty, so not worth bothering about. You won't get a tank in the spare wheel well, though, as it's not big enough, so you do end up losing a fair bit of boot space.


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

LOL
High octane fuel = 99

LPG = 110

An engine built purely to run on LPG would actually produce more power.
In fact it is not unknown for many Subaru's to actually have a power increase when running on LPG.

As I said in my previous post, I do understand the view that any modification to an outright sports car does not/should not be with economy in mind but for a small weight increase to be able to drive long distances without handing over even more of my hard earned is for me a no brainer.

Edward. 



Steve said:


> Girls, I can't beleive you are still discussing this !!!
> 
> GTR = high octane fuel
> 
> LPG = Toyota Prius


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## samuri (Jul 28, 2010)

DavidKnell said:


> I had my R32 GTR converted to run on LPG this year. Actually, "converted" is the wrong word - it'll run either on LPG or petrol, controlled by a button on the dash.
> 
> The system used has six LPG injectors slaved off the existing injectors, so it's a sequential system, and the fuelling's still mainly controlled by the original ECU.
> 
> ...


why did you go svi and not direct Injection?
Also PM sent thanks


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## LiamGTR (Nov 26, 2006)

I don't see why LPG is a bad idea, it basically lets you drive your GTR for twice the distance, for the same price.... I can only see a positive in that sentence?

It's wierd this topic has aired it's head again, I took my brother only yesterday to buy a LPG converted mondeo, and in the autogas station, a LPG converted Supra pulled up alongside at the next pump and showed us what to do, he basically said he gets exactly the same performance, but it simply costs him half the price to fill up now, and the price of the conversion has paid itself off 10 fold in the 5 years he has owned the car.

Do it.


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## DavidKnell (Apr 27, 2005)

samuri said:


> why did you go svi and not direct Injection?


The honest answer is that I hadn't come across any liquid injection systems at the time; as far as I can see, they're about twice the price and that'd have pushed me down the more conventional path anyway.


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

Seems like there has been many converted before. A guy on skylines Australia converted his r32 gtr. 

Does anyone know the costs of this in the UK fitting it to an R32 gtr? Liquid injection? Duel fuel?

Also would this affect the road tax?


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi,

Road tax on an R32 wouldn't change, there is a small decrease in road tax duty for LPG converted cars after 2001 (under the new road tax system, and even then only around £10)
Price wise, direct injection I couldn't really say as it is still in its infancy really (disregarding older failures of the system previously tried) and the liquid injection systems that are available are pretty much right now car/engine specific, I.E A kit will plug directly into a Ford Mondeo and the system will be programmed for that ECU.
A vapour sequential system can be had from around £1,000 but quite frankly that would be putting your car in the usual line up of 'in the door, kit fitted and back out of the door'.
The Skyline is a car that deserves/needs a quality kit and installer.
Look at a minimum of £1,500 and an installer that will take at least 3-4 days on the system.

A quick cheap job means drilling the manifold in situ and greasing the drill tip to catch loose swarf, or holding a vacuum tip at the manifold while drilling, a proper time taken job will be manifold off, drilled, cleaned and then reinstalled.
You really want pay the extra to have a high quality installer that has previously converted high performance cars and knows engine management systems very well, the installing of LPG is pretty straightforward it's the setting up and tuning that requires a good knowledge, without this your car will run lean/rich/splutter/judder/misfire and the engine management light will constantly be on requiring constant trips to the installer to 'retune'

Hope this helps,
Edward.



CSB said:


> Seems like there has been many converted before. A guy on skylines Australia converted his r32 gtr.
> 
> Does anyone know the costs of this in the UK fitting it to an R32 gtr? Liquid injection? Duel fuel?
> 
> Also would this affect the road tax?


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## konvert (Jun 22, 2010)

for circa 1500 its a bargain really


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

My LPG kit is a snip over a grand all up. All front end fitted, just the tanks to go. I can post up pics of interested.


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## jabran200 (Sep 5, 2005)

I'd like to see the pics, especillay where the reducers go.


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## torra (Mar 11, 2008)

Said this before had my skyline GTST @ 300BHP converted to LPG a few years ago, saved me $$$ on fuel and lost about 10% in power in LPG.
When we checked the oil it was like new very clean even after a months driving on boost, the way fuel prices or going go for it:thumbsup:


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## mambastu (Feb 13, 2002)

R32 Combat said:


> My LPG kit is a snip over a grand all up. All front end fitted, just the tanks to go. I can post up pics of interested.


I'd be interested too  :thumbsup:


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Ok, it's a stagea, but is an RB conversion. 280hp?










I've used a patch loom so there are no wiring mods to the standard loom. I'll be using a switchover relay so the fuel guage works for both fuels. Also, the patrol tank is 1/2 the original size to accomodate the 70l underslung LPG tank.


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## CSB (Nov 15, 2007)

MobileLPG can you do a duel conversion? I know £1500 is the minimum. As long as it switches over to petrol over 4k revs that's fine. Hardly go over that in my area.

Also not worried about loosing the boot space.

I just need to know if there is someone out there who has experience doing it and is willing to.


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi CSB,

To be honest mate I stopped doing conversions a while ago due to having 3 herniated discs in my back.
Being forced to have an operation made me realise what lifting heavy tanks was doing to me ;-)
I very often get asked the price for a conversion but always decline, my game has been servicing and repairing LPG systems now for a while and I'm snowed under doing that.
Unfortunately (and I don't want to sound like a d*ck) I couldn't wholeheartedly recommend any places near you either that I would be happy to send my car to as I tend to spend most days sorting out other peoples mess.

My advise would be to ring around and see what responses you get from installers, if you are not confident that any of them would do a good job then get back to me and I will do what I can to help you.

Regards,
Edward.



CSB said:


> MobileLPG can you do a duel conversion? I know £1500 is the minimum. As long as it switches over to petrol over 4k revs that's fine. Hardly go over that in my area.
> 
> Also not worried about loosing the boot space.
> 
> I just need to know if there is someone out there who has experience doing it and is willing to.


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi R32 Combat,

As you have opted for the Bigas system, have you used 2 x RI-21 regs?
Bigas claim that the RI-21 double is good for up to 380bhp, it works very well on a 290bhp 4.0 V8 Jaguar I service.
With that system/power you should be able to run on LPG all the way to the redline without any switching back to petrol.
In the Bigas software you can set it to add a given amount of petrol above a certain revs/injector ms, will you be using this feature at all to keep the valves lubricated?

Good luck with the rest of the install.
Edward.




R32 Combat said:


> Ok, it's a stagea, but is an RB conversion. 280hp?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi Edward

I am running Bigas, with the RI-21 double. I was sold to be by Tinley Tech, whom I have heard good things about. I'm sure you are aware of them.

I have not looked at the software, so I was not aware of this option. I know the dry system can hammer the softer seats, but I have yet to find a quantiful definition of hard.

I'm sure poeple on the 'fence' will be interested in the results.

Andy


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi Andy,

Yes, Tinley Tech are one of my suppliers, very decent to deal with.
To be honest the 'soft' valve seats are mostly on specific models, the Honda engines are terrible for soft valve seats and suffer from recession within 20,000 miles on gas, Ford Zetec engines also are very bad.
Then you have Toyota engines, which are known for it, the main rule tends to be if it is an asian engine then you generally fit flashlube to protect the valves, however this is not 100% proven to eliminate the valve recession.
The Nissan RB engine is an unknown really regarding long term LPG so the option to add fuel would certainly be one I will go with at least.

This option will be open to you in the software settings so at least you will have the option.
When you come to set the system up and carry out the mapping, you will have a modify carb option which gives you 8 boxes, 4 for idle, and 4 for out of idle (split into very low load, low load, medium load and high load) these can be shifted to + or - 50 maximum to get the fueling correct.
If you have any problems with getting it to set up correctly then please feel free to give me a shout, I have the full dealer key for that software that unlocks the full map and allows fine tweaking throughout the whole rev range/injector timing.
I have a number of customers in Reading, Bracknell etc and regularly travel to Aylesbury to service a fleet of vehicles so could possibly meet up and you could use the key to fine tune your system should you need it?

Regards,
Edward.



R32 Combat said:


> Hi Edward
> 
> I am running Bigas, with the RI-21 double. I was sold to be by Tinley Tech, whom I have heard good things about. I'm sure you are aware of them.
> 
> ...


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi Edward, 

I will almost certainly be in contact to refine my work. 

Andy


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

*My R33 GTR running now on LPG*

Hi All,

Just thought I would ressurect this thread as I have just returned from my first drive in my GTR running on LPG, have to say I am very pleased with the way it performs on gas, seemless changeover and no difference noted between gas and petrol..... took it upto just over 6,000rpm on LPG and it stayed overly rich, my wideband was showing between 10.5 and 10.0 so at least I know I am safe and have plenty of headroom (I haven't completed the fine tuning yet)
I still have a little tidying under the bonnet to finish and permanently fix the LPG filler but couldn't resist filling the tank, tweaking the software and going for a little drive..
Here's an unusual site 



Edward.


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## gillsl500 (Jun 20, 2005)

Hey Edward, mate what the frigg your R33 looks nuts in that pic ...glad to see you've got her up and running! LPG hey...good on ya fella nothing but admiration.

Take it easy


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## samuri (Jul 28, 2010)

My stagea(TURBO) converted to LPG switches to petrol or petrol is added (cant recall exactly) above 4000rpm
Is yours still on LPG at 6000rpm?


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi Sat,

Cheers mate, I still have a lot to do but had to quickly rebuild everything back together as my son wanted me to take him to his prom in it, now I have to strip all the turbo side back down again to actually change the turbos for steel wheel units I am building, we will have to meet up soon ;-)

Samuri: Your LPG system is probably an AEB based system that has the option to switch to petrol or add fuel at a set RPM or millisecond of injection.
Unless you are pushing real power above 300bhp then you certainly shouldn't be needing to switch back at 4,000rpm, adding a little petrol certainly does no harm and is good for the valves but if it is completely switching then it sounds like it needs the mapping sorting out.
Yes mine went round to 6,000 and above on LPG and my wideband was showing 10.5, it would easily have carried on round to 7,000 but I have set it initially until I have the fine tuning done to max out at 6,500rpm on LPG .

For the sake of the valves and giving them a little lube, once I have the fine tuning done, I will be tuning it to rev upto 7,000rpm on gas but will then set it to switch to petrol at a lower point..

Edward.


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

Too late 

Edward.


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

I was starting to think I had made a huge mistake, and that you had some superior wisdom as to why I shouldn't convert, after years of carrying out LPG conversions I was starting to doubt whether I had done the right thing on this car....
Even considered taking off the LPG after reading your in depth 'pros and cons' information regarding LPG on a performance engine...I was really worrying..........
Then I noticed you are just thread crapping to get to 50 posts so you can sell some wheels and suddenly I feel at ease with my installation again LOL 

Edward.

P.S Just a bit of light hearted humour 




cona2k said:


> dont do it


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

From 1st hand experiance, it's deffo the way to go. It helps if you can do the install your self. It can be done correctly then. As I'm sure Edward will agree, it's not a 5min job.


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi Andy,

Definitely not a job I would trust anyone else with.
There was quite a few very tricky areas on the engine that I really had to think about and some major stripping down that just really wouldn't be an option for the average lpg convesion garage.
I tied it in with a lot of other jobs that I was planning so made the most of having one half of the engine completely stripped.
Now that the parts have arrived I have to take the car back off the road for a while to upgrade the turbos, strip the front to complete my full underseal/rust protection and finally fit the Nismo clutch I've had sitting on a filing cabinet for months 

Edward.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

MobileLPG said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Definitely not a job I would trust anyone else with.
> There was quite a few very tricky areas on the engine that I really had to think about and some major stripping down that just really wouldn't be an option for the average lpg convesion garage.
> ...


The RB25DET is a much easier engine to convert. There is room under the inlet manifold, whch can be removing in about 20 mins. I'd be interested to have a look at your conversion as I might be doing a RB26 soon.


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi Andy,

No problem, the only thing I am not too happy with my conversion is the placement of the injectors, these are tricky as I would have liked to have mounted below the manifold and fed up from underneath but this is impossible.
Feeding from above and trying to maintain as short a run as possible meant mounting them on top of the petrol injector wiring rail.... not the nicest looking but it does keep the injector to port piping as short as possible.
It did however take some very carefully routed piping to clear the throttle pulleys...literally within mm's.
Here are a a few pics from a thread I posted on here while I was doing the job and I will try to post some more here when I get the time.
The system I used is a BRC Sequent 56 and used the MAX regulator, the Max reg is a nice unit as it is a rectangular block so much easier to site due to all the connection and piping coming out of the side.
I was considering fitting the reg in the gap below the O/S headlamp but I don't like extending water pipes unless absolutely necessary, I could have mounted it on the member in front of the radiator after I removed the aircon rad but once again long water pipes exposure at the front of the car didn't appeal so I mounted it under the plenum off the inner wing, this was only possible as I removed all of the idle control system.
This gave me literally just enough room to fit the reg and it just clears everything once again with mm's of room.
For a heated water supply I routed the oil cooler pipes through the regulator using 90 degree joins to avoid any possibility of pipes bending when they got hot and soft.

Strip down required to safely drill the air intake-


LPG nozzles fitted-




Wheel well protected with Por-15 prior to tank fitting-


Tank fitted (ignore the mess)-

I have since painted the underneath so all the metal is black.


Regulator 90% mounted-


Edward.


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## MobileLPG (Aug 18, 2010)

Here is a picture of the regulator mounted, I have left it large so you can see it better.



Injectors temporarily mounted until I decide on a 'cleaner' method, they will actually sit more flush but I mount them on dampers so you don't get a nasty click...click..click..click resonating under the bonnet.
I am considering making a little bracket fixed more flush with the fuel rail so they look tidier, however the pipes need to keep a nice sweep so there is no risk of them crimping.
The pipes from the injectors actually cross over as they loop under the fuel rail, so the injectors are actually feeding in the order 1-3-2-5-4-6, otherwise the angle was too tight to go on the nozzles and the throttle opening would rub through the pipes.


I removed all of the A/C to make room for my Accusump and Oil cooler that I fitted at the same time so the bulkhead now had a nice opning for me to run the wiring loom through, I fitted the ECU behind the dash and wired directly to the ECU for all the pickups so that kept the wiring out of the engine bay and out of sight, this picture shows the initial routing of the LPG loom coming out of the A/C pipe grommet and across the bulkhead-


And then the fun of wiring it in begins  I will have to take some pictures of it now it is finished, the wiring is all snipped down to make short runs straight across to the petrol ECU which then left me with a nice tidy loom to run straight across leaving nothing visible at all.


Edward.


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