# First GTR R35 bought with Bitcoin?



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

I purchased my Litchfield Stage 4 2009 Nissan GTR R35 Black Edition on September 13th 2017. 

I wonder if I am the first person in the world to buy one with Bitcoin?

Bitcoin Transaction ID: e0855d1236fb2ba580a2a7e3b453c32e68f3aa0405feee837597ea89ddd47db9

At the time of purchase this was 62,000 Euros including fees to All4BTC.com (the company which processed the transaction).


----------



## Takamo (Oct 18, 2005)

What's a bitcoin when it's at home?


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

Takamo said:


> What's a bitcoin when it's at home?


A Bitcoin is a form of digital currency without central control, decentralised and completely in your control, also under your responsibility.

Currently 1 Bitcoin or 1BTC is worth $6109.69 as of 21:42GMT on the 30th of October (Now).


----------



## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

Takamo said:


> What's a bitcoin when it's at home?


Useful currency for anyone transacting in anything shady, pretty irrelevant to the mainstream as it adds nothing useful except the ability to obscure source and destination of funds.


----------



## leeK9 (Jun 23, 2014)

cash, credit, gold bullion or bitcoin....who really cares...enjoy it.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

why would you buy a depreciating asset with an appreciating one?


----------



## dazzabb (Oct 29, 2016)

I reckon the seller will be happy with that deal too, bitcoin will almost certainly grow massively in the years to come and if he keeps it........


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

AndyE14 said:


> Useful currency for anyone transacting in anything shady, pretty irrelevant to the mainstream as it adds nothing useful except the ability to obscure source and destination of funds.


That simply isn't true, there are many many benefits to using Bitcoin, faster transactions, no limitations and low fees being just the tip of the iceburg. The dirtiest currency for transacting anything shady is still, by and far, the Dollar.


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

leeK9 said:


> cash, credit, gold bullion or bitcoin....who really cares...enjoy it.


Will do, thank you


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

Mookistar said:


> why would you buy a depreciating asset with an appreciating one?


1. Because it is my dream car.
2. Because my finances are all held in cryptographic currencies.
3. It isn't all my Bitcoin.


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

dazzabb said:


> I reckon the seller will be happy with that deal too, bitcoin will almost certainly grow massively in the years to come and if he keeps it........


The purchase was done via all4btc.com, they simply issue a BitPay invoice which I paid, they then get the Euros to their bank. They keep no Bitcoin.


----------



## -SeanS (Apr 10, 2012)

I've been tempted to invest in bitcoin for a while now, especially when it dropped to £1.7k not too long ago! Was chatting to someone that bought £500 worth about 5 or 6 years ago. That investment now would be worth around £307,000. Absolutely crazy how much it has took off.

Never bit the bullet though as my biggest concern would be the potential for someone to hack your account and steal it, with absolutely no protection or come back for the victim.


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

-SeanS said:


> I've been tempted to invest in bitcoin for a while now, especially when it dropped to £1.7k not too long ago! Was chatting to someone that bought £500 worth about 5 or 6 years ago. That investment now would be worth around £307,000. Absolutely crazy how much it has took off.
> 
> Never bit the bullet though as my biggest concern would be the potential for someone to hack your account and steal it, with absolutely no protection or come back for the victim.


Do your due diligance, use Bitcoin Core wallet on a macine that is not online ever that you connect to send coin when needed and for all the other time cold-store your private keys in a safe


----------



## AndyE14 (Mar 22, 2010)

shinra said:


> That simply isn't true, there are many many benefits to using Bitcoin, faster transactions, no limitations and low fees being just the tip of the iceburg. The dirtiest currency for transacting anything shady is still, by and far, the Dollar.


Not sure about that given that the dealer I am buying from n the UK wants 0.2% for a debit card transaction that I know is likely to cost them only circa 20p I shudder to think about the fees that would be levied on Bitcoin.

Quite aside from the contractual chain issues that comes of third parties issuing invoices and payment in the event that you have a problem with the vendor.

I see the role of Blockchain currencies in complex cross border trade agreements as well as shady dealing but it isn't a great payment tool for small purchases (including cars).


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

AndyE14 said:


> Not sure about that given that the dealer I am buying from n the UK wants 0.2% for a debit card transaction that I know is likely to cost them only circa 20p I shudder to think about the fees that would be levied on Bitcoin.
> 
> Quite aside from the contractual chain issues that comes of third parties issuing invoices and payment in the event that you have a problem with the vendor.
> 
> I see the role of Blockchain currencies in complex cross border trade agreements as well as shady dealing but it isn't a great payment tool for small purchases (including cars).


At the moment fees work out to around a minimum of £1.30.

Agreed that for purchases that are under £100 it isn't worth it and certainly isn't a day-to-day currency, however, since Segwit implementation, fees have dropped and more transactions can be handled.

The main pros of blockchain technology is the immutable blockchain itself, an unchangable ledger, no possiblity of counterfitting a Bitcoin, a finite supply and subsequently a deflationary currency/asset.


----------



## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

so burning question,

Can you tell us how much cash you invested in the bitcoin you used to pay for the car?

Fair play to you for having the balls to buy in to it.

I didn't have the guts.


----------



## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Mine was the first one to be purchased by hook or by crook with some casual rent boy activity to make up the money short fall, I was always busy and it was a pain in the arse the first time but you get used to it  

probably less of a pain In the arse than trying to understand bitcoin and its values but fair play to you sunshine!


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

Adamantium said:


> so burning question,
> 
> Can you tell us how much cash you invested in the bitcoin you used to pay for the car?
> 
> ...


I am at the opposite end of the spectrum, I get paid in Bitcoin as I am a developer who codes within the blockchain sector.


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

Stealth69 said:


> Mine was the first one to be purchased by hook or by crook with some casual rent boy activity to make up the money short fall, I was always busy and it was a pain in the arse the first time but you get used to it
> 
> probably less of a pain In the arse than trying to understand bitcoin and its values but fair play to you sunshine!


Bitcoin is easy to understand on the surface, but is very complex once you begin to dive into the inner workings.


----------



## simGTR (Aug 5, 2017)

shinra said:


> I purchased my Litchfield Stage 4 2009 Nissan GTR R35 Black Edition on September 13th 2017.
> 
> I wonder if I am the first person in the world to buy one with Bitcoin?
> 
> ...


I bought one on the 12th. Sorry.


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

simGTR said:


> I bought one on the 12th. Sorry.


Damn you, lol


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

AndyE14 said:


> Not sure about that given that the dealer I am buying from n the UK wants 0.2% for a debit card transaction that I know is likely to cost them only circa 20p I shudder to think about the fees that would be levied on Bitcoin.
> 
> Quite aside from the contractual chain issues that comes of third parties issuing invoices and payment in the event that you have a problem with the vendor.
> 
> I see the role of Blockchain currencies in complex cross border trade agreements as well as shady dealing but it isn't a great payment tool for small purchases (including cars).


HSBC will not allow personal payments beyond £10k unless you physically go into the bank and sit there with them.

Bitcoin trumps traditional banks in that respect alone.

On top of that, should the high street banks run out of money they can simply freeze your funds.

There is a flip side, should global economies outlaw bitcoin (ie make it illegal to hold or transact in) then a bitcoin instantly becomes worth zero.

It'll be interesting to see where it goes for sure. Certainly not suitable for most people as a currency or investment who don't want risk right now, even if you store it offline then if you forget your passphrase your locked out for good. Not something most people could sleep at night knowing.

I think everyone should seek to aquire a few tens of pounds though just to gain a greater understanding of how it works.


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

got to be feeling pretty stupid right now :flame::flame::flame:


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

Mookistar said:


> got to be feeling pretty stupid right now :flame::flame::flame:


Traders and Speculators generally only tell you about their success, not failure.
Bit like Facebook. lol


----------



## leeK9 (Jun 23, 2014)

£260K!!!

Wait a few months and you could of had a brand new Nismo with £150k left over for mods lol


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

Mookistar said:


> got to be feeling pretty stupid right now :flame::flame::flame:


Do you think I spent all my Bitcoin on my car?

I am not that daft


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

shinra said:


> Do you think I spent all my Bitcoin on my car?
> 
> I am not that daft


Ah, so more money than sense then


----------



## shinra (Sep 22, 2017)

Mookistar said:


> Ah, so more money than sense then


No, not at all. I just hit a target level, could attain my dream car and did.


----------



## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

Bit late to the party but now bought bitcoin, litecoin, etherium and ripple coin


----------



## dazzabb (Oct 29, 2016)

dudersvr said:


> Bit late to the party but now bought bitcoin, litecoin, etherium and ripple coin


And there's me buying old fashioned oil stocks!


----------



## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

I just bought a load of shares in Myspace


----------



## Trevgtr (Dec 24, 2012)

shinra said:


> Do you think I spent all my Bitcoin on my car?
> 
> I am not that daft


Doesn't matter really, you do what you think is right at the time and stand by it, hindsight is a wonderful thing in trading/gambling!


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

So these unregulated internet currencies are going up in value at a mad rate because people think they are a good investment and a chance to get rich quick.
But the actual unit of currency has no value beyond what speculators are prepared to pay for it.

Where does it end?

For people to win, other people have to lose.
Is it a case or trying not to be left holding them when the music stops?


----------



## dudersvr (May 7, 2003)

CT17 said:


> So these unregulated internet currencies are going up in value at a mad rate because people think they are a good investment and a chance to get rich quick.
> But the actual unit of currency has no value beyond what speculators are prepared to pay for it.
> 
> Where does it end?
> ...


Thats the same as any currency, do you think a £20 note is anything? Its a piece of paper with a promise to pay on it, pay what? 20 pounds of what? If shops stopped taking normal currency and potatoes became the new currency you would have some expensive toilet paper. Theres countries in the world where you can plug your crypto wallet into a terminal and purchase something, bit like a credit card.


----------



## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

yes but our currency used to be based on something..... gold......

That's what I don't get about bitcoin, it's based on nothing, has nothing to back it up, isn't recognised by the bank of England so no such promise to cover the value of a bitcoin, it's just a bunch of 1's and 0's with nothing under it. 

That's what I find so confusing.


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Mookistar said:


> got to be feeling pretty stupid right now :flame::flame::flame:


He should feel no more or less stupid than any GTR owner who did not sell their GTR 6 weeks ago and put that money into bitcoin. The opportunity cost of holding one capital item in favour of another is exactly the same.


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Stealth69 said:


> yes but our currency used to be based on something..... gold......
> 
> That's what I don't get about bitcoin, it's based on nothing, has nothing to back it up, *isn't recognised by the bank of England so no such promise to cover the value of a bitcoin*, it's just a bunch of 1's and 0's with nothing under it.
> 
> That's what I find so confusing.


Unless I'm mistaken the bank of England wont "cover the value" of a GBP with anything other than another GBP which really doesn't have any use beyond replacing one note with another note of the same currency.

I have no real problem with bitcoin not being backed by something, I do think it's value is looking rather inflated in comparison with how much progress it's making towards being an actual currency.

The most recent price surge has left me thinking the most likely outcome is that it's going to fall over hard and result in a total loss of confidence in it. If it does fall over to something below $5000 now I can't see anyone getting back into it.

I might be wrong, but I just don't see it being adopted as a currency quickly, it needed to combine price rises with actual use improvements, like bitcoin bank accounts and a quick payment system.

Sooner or later the government (US or China) will have a major problem with it if it's unbanked as any unbanked currency cannot be lent against in the frac reserve system which would be a disaster for world liquidity should it start to attract an increasing market cap.

My personal view is that either a government or investment bank will co-ordinate in shorting the futures in order to shake out the confidence in it by collapsing the price (and if they succeed will make a fortune in doing so)


----------



## CT17 (Mar 25, 2011)

dudersvr said:


> Thats the same as any currency, do you think a £20 note is anything? Its a piece of paper with a promise to pay on it, pay what? 20 pounds of what? If shops stopped taking normal currency and potatoes became the new currency you would have some expensive toilet paper. Theres countries in the world where you can plug your crypto wallet into a terminal and purchase something, bit like a credit card.


An interesting way to explain it.
I have a bit more faith in potatoes not replacing GBP fortunately. :chuckle:


----------



## Stealth69 (Jan 6, 2005)

borat52 said:


> Unless I'm mistaken the bank of England wont "cover the value" of a GBP with anything other than another GBP which really doesn't have any use beyond replacing one note with another note of the same currency.


Agreed but that pound for pound swap was still based on something concrete, well gold actually and this stopped countries watering down their currency, there so they couldn't really print more and more money without the gold reserve to back it up, well until the gold standard was abolished anyway.

So all the pound coins for example are/were based on the value of a piece of gold that the country owned, every coin was backed by something physical, something that had a value across the world so swapping one pound coin for another isn't worthless, it still has the same backing value. 

The Bitcoin is a nothingness that I simply don't understand, perhaps I'm not smart enough....... I don't get how the value is going up, is it going up in value because it's becoming more and more accepted as a useable currency ? but if it does all go to shit, you are left with a public ledger full of 1's and 0's that means dick. 

I guess I'm too simple for this stuff.... I have become a dinosaur! me and bit coin is like giving my Great nan a laptop


----------



## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Stealth69 said:


> Agreed but that pound for pound swap was still based on something concrete, well gold actually and this stopped countries watering down their currency, there so they couldn't really print more and more money without the gold reserve to back it up, well until the gold standard was abolished anyway.
> 
> *So all the pound coins for example are*/were based on the value of a piece of gold that the country owned, every coin was backed by something physical, something that had a value across the world so swapping one pound coin for another isn't worthless, it still has the same backing value.
> 
> ...


It was true that GBP was backed by a specific amount of gold but it's not true now so I don't think it's fair to measure a potential new currency against one that no longer exists (the gold backed GBP).

In terms of the now, non paper GBP is physically backed by nothing more than bitcoin and indeed the paper the physical is printed on is practically worthless.

It is backed by a large user base, and perhaps on that point you are correct - that in order to establish a user base it's very beneficial to back a currency by something tangible to preserve it's value.

The concept of the way bitcoin is distributed is pretty horrendous if you follow it through.

Should it become THE global currency then although on one hand we could argue its inflation proof as it's capped in quantity it absolutely creates huge inflation on it's distribution as it directly devalues the GBP/USD/EUR/YEN etc that are used to buy it as they remain in circulation.

It also guarantees the last person to buy into it becomes around 50% worse off for the reason above, it would effectively increase the world money supply by 50% with no productivity increase.

I'm not entirely convinced as to why being inflation proof is even a good thing, some flexibility in the money supply when used appropriately can be useful.

Right now it has a lot of problems and as I see it the criminal element is the least of them, it's not solving them anywhere near as fast as the price increase.

I actually sold some that I was holding at $13k for that reason, sure I wish I got $19k for them but I deemed at $13k something strange to be happening with relation to it's price being out of line with it's ability to justify it.


----------

