# Heres what happens when you lose 3rd gear



## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Well i have got the box out and all in bits now what a mess. :lol: 

I drained the oil out and heard loads of metal dropping out  First time i have done a gearbox rebuild and i can say not to bad at all. You have to take the tranfers box off the back and then a bit of casing. Then you just pull the whole gearset and selecter forks out in one bit.  

A few pics of the mess.

All this came out in the oil  









The actual gearset. It has destroyed 3rd gear and the layshaft. No teeth left on either.









And all the little bits of metal left in the casing.  









So now is the descision of either a knew uprated gearset or just replace the broken bits for now?

There is a video of the car actually destroying 3rd but my mate is having trouble with his mobile.


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## SmigzyGTR (Mar 20, 2006)

Pics not working bud


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## mifn21 (Mar 19, 2007)

Thats cos he put fúck in the filenames so the forum removes it :chuckle:


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Yea all sorted now


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## DaveV (Feb 27, 2007)

Nasty


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## s2gtr (Jun 30, 2001)

SmigzyGTR said:


> Pics not working bud


Work for me 

Not a pretty sight though:runaway: 

Well done for having a go yourself Madden, brave man:runaway: 

Dave.


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## Mookistar (Feb 5, 2004)

my brain still cannot comprehend how the **** a gearbox works.

it's a bit like trying to imagine space is donut shaped, not gonna happen!

mook


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

****ed worked on another forum. SO i had to change it to get it on here


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## Trev (Nov 1, 2003)

Nice effort Madden! :clap: 

Do it properly if your going to do it


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## Cliff J (Jan 8, 2008)

I have some real strong glue if you need it  Might not completely fix the gears but you can get real high and forget about your bad luck mate


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## minos (Sep 21, 2006)

the gearoil looks abit strange i think? 

looks more like automatic transmission oil or is it just me?


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Its redline heavy shockproof. Right nasty stuff to clean up


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## Simonh (May 24, 2002)

Mookistar said:


> my brain still cannot comprehend how the **** a gearbox works.
> 
> it's a bit like trying to imagine space is donut shaped, not gonna happen!
> 
> mook


me either, despite having it explained to me many many times!

Simon


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## JP_Tuner (May 6, 2004)

Good on you for going at it yourself. I remember when my third gear blew. Looked just like that but I opted for a whole new tranny from AutoGallery Yokohama. Just pulled the old one off and stuck the new one in.


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## Hedgehog Dodger (Jul 13, 2004)

How did it fail pal? I remeber my old GTR had an awful crunch on the syncros from 3rd to 4th. But nothing that resembled your 'mess'!!


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

It just failed on a shift up to third on boost. Box never crunched and drove sweet all the time. I have a new OS R3C tripple plate which doesnt have the sprung centre so it just shocked the box to pieces. 3RD is he most common gear to break anyway. I have been told that the center plate bends and the gears seperate so that they are only touching at the tips hence the mess.


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

Haha.. Nice work... Ill post up my gear set when i get it out this weekend.... I dare say it will look much the same


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## rockabilly (Oct 15, 2003)

i wonder if you just replaced the centre housing with a giken one and new std gears if it would last. as you say it seems the housing twists causing miss alignment..umm interesting..


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Thats what I'm thinking mate. As the gears shouldn't break if they stayed aligned. I might give it a go and see what happens. I have been told that the Getrag out of the R34 doesn't normally break gears just syncros. SO that might be another option for me.


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## cokey (Sep 11, 2003)

Search thru old posts mate.
I'm sure there is a billet plate available that deals with the twisting motion. could have been an OS Giken part ?
Cant remember.
cheers cokey


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

I have looked around the net for a price but i cant find one anywhere just info. I know OS make one.


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

Madden said:


> I have looked around the net for a price but i cant find one anywhere just info. I know OS make one.


Got a link for one... or know where I could buy one from?


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

Grex, Zenitani, Auto Gallery Yokohama, Kakimoto all make upgraded centre plates as well as OS.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Well the main part i have been waiting for has turned up. Its the gearbox center plate. Made from Billit alloy so should stop the gears from seperating. Alot of people go down the uprated gear kit route but I thought i would test the stock gear set to destruction. :lol: I have heard that the OS giken gear sets still break 3rd. So i don't see the point in spending £2000 on parts for it to happen again when i can get my hands on stock gear sets for cheap. :lol: 

This is an OS giken reinforced center plate that cost a fortune. :lol: 




























I'm surposed to be at Abbey on Thursday to learn how to rebuilt the gear set onto my center plate but i have to go to see the pysio so not to sure i can make it yet.


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## Moff (Sep 27, 2004)

Good effort on the box... !!

Your sump plug must have had more than a hair cut !

Moff


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## Dins (Aug 13, 2007)

What are the specific benefits of the reinforced plate, considering it costs quite a few quid?


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## Kristan (Oct 16, 2002)

Is it worth trying to cryo the gearset? Was flicking through Banzai yesterday and noticed they had a piece on it, seemed like a cheap way to strengthen your gearbox if you've already got it in bits.


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## ru' (Feb 18, 2007)

pm jae, as he's had his gearbox parts cryo'd I think


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

oh whats cryo? I guess its a strengthening treatment.

The plate stops the twist and separating of the input shaft and lay shaft. Which in turn should stop it from stripping gears. Hopefully.. As i said going to try with stock gears as they will be alot cheaper to replace then OS gears if it does go bang again.


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## Dins (Aug 13, 2007)

Madden said:


> oh whats cryo? I guess its a strengthening treatment.
> 
> The plate stops the twist and separating of the input shaft and lay shaft. Which in turn should stop it from stripping gears. Hopefully.. As i said going to try with stock gears as they will be alot cheaper to replace then OS gears if it does go bang again.


Ah, thanks for the info.


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## Kristan (Oct 16, 2002)

cryo is basically they deep freeze the parts down to -200 or something for 24 hours. Apparently works very well for gti-r gearboxes and brake discs in general. This was the company :

Motorsport

Was thinking of getting a knackered box and trying it myself. Pretty certain 5th is on it's way out in mine and it won't be long before 3rd lets go I'm sure.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Well just got back from building my gearbox at Abbey motorsport with the big man Tony. I have been down there all day annoying them and have learnt alot. I think the gearset rebuild into the OS giken center plate took about 3 hours. Not bad for an old boy. :lol: Had a good day there and Mark said that he can help me map the car by having 2 maps. One for out and out drag racing and one for street.  

A few pics

Looks stunning i think  









The old broken 3rd gear and layshaft









And for those that wanted to compare the stock plate to a OS plate.


















Like to thank Tony @ Abbey again for all the help.


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## Cliff J (Jan 8, 2008)

Nice one Jamie son  Did you help or just make tea and wise cracks? 

...and did you get my bit from Mick?


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Yes i have some how ended up with a free r33 release bearing and you credit card numbers


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## Cliff J (Jan 8, 2008)

That`s all good then  Cheers Madge


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Another update.

I spent all day yesturday on the bike so i thought i should build the box up again. 

I have been holding off due to the fact that i had it pretty much built but i recieved a message from Tony at Abbey saying they found one of my thrust bearings in the bottom of their parts washer.   :lol:. So it all had to come apart again to put this bloody bearing in. Which involved removing all the sealent that hasn't set yet. Ended up in a big mess. :lol: :lol: So it took me about 2 hours to strip, clean and put this bearing in. I replaced that washer that was missng due to the layshaft being shorter then the old one. Built the rest of the gearbox up with the transfer on it but i was reading the workshop manual and there is a spring and ball bearing missing from the gear selector gate. I dont remember removing it or dropping it. :lol: It looks like it has been removed before due to the bolt that came out having orange sealent around it. So I'm guessing it has been mising since i installed this box a while ago. Who knows? So waiting for the replacement to turn up before i can install the box back into the car. :x :x :x . I wanted to put the box back in tomorrow but that wont be happening now. :x :x :x :x :x :x 

A few pics.



















The thing now weighs a ton again and i had to l lift it into the shed. Which bloody hurt. :lol: :lol:


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

Looks good,were you luck enough to have the late type syncros in your R33 gearbox already.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

No i was has the early type mate but the box came out of an 1998 v-spec r33? Hey ho see how long they last


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

Could be the only modification the gearbox needs? if so I will fit one in mine.
As you say that OS gear set is a lot of money esp if it goes wrong again.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Will will see what happens at the next track day or pro/street drag event.

All in all the box rebuild with new gears and center plate has cost me. £600 including oils. It would be in the £3000 mark if i went for the OS gearset and it i broke third gear on that it will cost me in excess of £1000 to fix where the stock gears will only cost around £100 to rebuild again.


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## paul cawson (Jul 3, 2003)

If it does go you can try fitting the front plate as well, but I think only Kakimoto does those


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## 95GTR600 (Jun 24, 2008)

Madden said:


> Will will see what happens at the next track day or pro/street drag event.
> 
> All in all the box rebuild with new gears and center plate has cost me. £600 including oils. It would be in the £3000 mark if i went for the OS gearset and it i broke third gear on that it will cost me in excess of £1000 to fix where the stock gears will only cost around £100 to rebuild again.


where did you buy the standard gears ?


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

paul cawson said:


> If it does go you can try fitting the front plate as well, but I think only Kakimoto does those


Front plate???
Where do i get me one of these!!!!??


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Sort it out Madden, your not trying hard enough  

5th gear from my Type-R, managed to crack the front plate lose all oil and contaminate the clutch. :thumbsup: 



















Looks like you should be back on the road shortly mate, good stuff :thumbsup: 







Smokey :smokin:


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## SteveN (Aug 6, 2002)

Good work mate, ill be interested if the uprated OSG plate helps, as my box is on its way out bigtime and cant afford a expensive gearset at mo...


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## GreeceS13 (Aug 4, 2006)

I will be interested to see if the plate worth the money too!!

Also tell us where you bought stock gears?
There are part numbers?


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## Howsie (Feb 25, 2002)

Great thread and well done to Abbey for guiding you through it. I've heard Tony know's his boxes!


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Well quick update box is all back in and drives sweet as a nut. Over the moon with it as it's the first gearbox i have ever built. I done one hard change from 2nd to 3rd and it didnt brake so all seems good. 

Glad to be able to start and drive the car again as it hasn't even been started since the box blew up. There was spider's webs and stuff all over the dash 

We will see how good this center plate is on the drag strip and at Brands on the 10th when the TA boys are out in force. Will be hitting the public track time and hope to be able to surive this one. I will be filling the car with extinguishers after what happen at Silverstone. 

I have also got some cams to put in now as running 600bhp through stock cams has been holding me back for a while. I got some HKS step 2 280d 9.15mm lift. I think they are one offs as they dont list them but i know they make custom cams for their customers.


Cant wait hope to be sorting them out tomorrow and then on with learning to map the dame thing and play around with cam timing to see what difference it makes. 

Greeces13 i got the gears 2nd hand from Tony @ abbey motorsports little den where they hide all the little boys 

Once again thanks to Big Tony @ abbey for spending the day with me building the gearset into the os giken center plate. Your a good egg


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Smokey1 i bet that mad a mess of your car 

Well did you manged to drive it home 50miles? No i dont think you did  So i win that one then


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

I really recomend getting this center plate to anyone building a box up at the moment. I have given the car some stick and you can feel how strong it is now. It now spins the wheels between gear changes which keeps th car on boost. 

Really happy with it.


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## Stachi (Jan 26, 2008)

Sorry, maybe I haven't seen it, but what did you pay for the center plate in the end?

Marc


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## trackday addict (May 14, 2005)

well done & glad you got it sorted :smokin: 



Madden said:


> I really recomend getting this center plate to anyone building a box up at the moment. I have given the car some stick and you can feel how strong it is now. It now spins the wheels between gear changes which keeps th car on boost.
> 
> Really happy with it.


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## dc2mike (Apr 17, 2008)

yeah where did you buy the plate and what did it cost?
planning on changing my gearbox or rebuilding it.
but as you say so much cheaper do rebuild a std gearset than the osgiken if it breaks.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

I payed £450 for it from RB motorsport. They have them in stock ready to go.


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## GreeceS13 (Aug 4, 2006)

Quite expensive.. but I am waiting to tell us what will be in the drag strip.
Do you race with drag radial tires?
Your specs?


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## dc2mike (Apr 17, 2008)

that was alot of money for a piece of billet=)
but if it does its work right its a cheaper way of sorting gearbox problems.

its only osgiken who does these plates?


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## lightspeed (Jul 11, 2002)

Zenitani, Greddy (Trust/Grex), Auto Gallery Yokohama, Kakimoto (steel) all do uprated centre plates. Around 80,000 yen ish.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Well what can i say. I went to USC and snapped 3rd again.  I was pushing really hard but as soon as i hit 3rd it just snapped off. I know dont have a clue what to do as i dont want a ppg or os giken gearset as they won't last a bit of drag racing.

So still drove the car home from the pod with no third and it will be coming out again next week

Here is a vid of me smashing 3rd gear to bits

ImageShack - Hosting :: usc2008002gc8.flv


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## tuRBy (Feb 8, 2006)

madden: sorry to hear about another gear box break .

are you sure the OS cog set wont be what you need?, IIRC its the sequential that needs rebuilding every 10,000 miles, and the OSG cog set is supposed to last very well [almost like a nissan box at 400bhp] with power under 7-800bhp. E.g - smokey1/john is running OSG cogs in his T51R-kai car, [email protected]

I *was * considering a PPG kit untill I spoke to 'Andy H' on the forum, he has some usefull info on them!


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

I have seen so many os giken broken 3rd gears now that i cant see the sence in spending some serious money on something that will not last but i know people have run them with no prolems. Just luck really but i can no way afford a os giken gearset.


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## R32 Combat (Jan 29, 2004)

Oops....


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## tuRBy (Feb 8, 2006)

thats same dilemma as i have, what gearbox next.

with me - if I want to up the boost I need to upgrade the gearbox...

the OSG cog kit is £1000 to £1500 depending on options, plus fitting, or you got a fitted 6speed getrag for £3500 [about the same price as the OSG cog kit fitted]

The only alternative i can find, is to spend 7-10k  on an OSG sequential, or better, a Hollinger.

The autogallery yokohama will probably be like the OSG cog set for the nissan box, in terms of strength, and the greddy/quaife gearbox breaks alot on drag racing from what info I have found on the net.

There doesn't seem to be anything in the middle, 4-6k bracket, which is still 'silly money' IMO.

I dont think anyone has tried OSG gear set cryo treated yet [as in the pulsar gearbox example]. I may look at that option.......


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

I'm so stuck on options now. No money and no car. The car was going so well today that i want to fix it and have ago again tomorrow. The power increase from the mapping and boost hike didn't really help but it was fun


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## Snowfiend (Jul 11, 2006)

Bugger ! Sorry to hear that Jamie...

Start saving for that OS88 I guess...I know I want one now...going to rob a bank I think


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## Cliff J (Jan 8, 2008)

Jamie, unlucky mate  I can`t believe it went again, and so soon!!! 

You should`ve said you were going to USC, I`d have come with you. I would`ve beaten you too!!!  ......  ........ :bawling:


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

isn't there a budget way to go Getrag? Like pick up a used Supra Getrag, and then add the transfer box? Or are the bell housings different?


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

£2700 for a new R34 getrag shipped. I don't know though if an R32 transfer box can be fitted to it. Labor can't be that much for a tranny swap, for you could get a bunch of mates to help you out with the lifting...ah, oilpan mod needed? I gotta look up the details on the R34 swap.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

I did have a look into getting the Getrag when matt had that one for sale on here with dodgy sycnro's.. It's not much work to install them either. You need to get the front prop, front section of rear prop, drills 2 holes in the crossmeber to align the mount.

I have heard of problems with clutch selection. i.e clutch systems being too tall and fouling on the bell housing?

It will add up to a fair bit if i went to getrag and then i might have to replace my brand new clutch which cost me a fortune


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Madden said:


> You need to get the front prop, front section of rear prop, drills 2 holes in the crossmeber to align the mount.


You also need a 34 clutch/flywheel and a 34 transfer box.

You can replace the rear prop with a lightweight single piece like I have.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

So you do have to change the clutch and flywheel then. I wont be taking this route then as i have only just brought my os giken R3C clutch that cost me loads..

Are the getrags really that strong? Has anyone used them hard in drag racing or track racing?


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

I've been using mine for two years with no problem. My car is 500+ and used pretty hard on track on a regular basis.

Had a selector fork problem recently, but that's hardly the sort of prob you're worried about.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

They do sound good but what it the conversion price? £4000 +?


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## scby rex (Jul 7, 2008)

got to love redline shock proof, sticks to everything.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Yea espically my patio


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Madden said:


> Well what can i say. I went to USC and snapped 3rd again.  I was pushing really hard but as soon as i hit 3rd it just snapped off. I know dont have a clue what to do as i dont want a ppg or os giken gearset as they won't last a bit of drag racing.
> 
> So still drove the car home from the pod with no third and it will be coming out again next week
> 
> ...


an OS Giken 1234 we had managed plenty of action in the Lemon and Micks Gold R32, then into the whistely job and finally the Taisan it must have done 30,000 miles and bloody hundreds of drag launches.

The Taisan now has a OS Giken 12345 kit in there and it is spot on. I can deffo recommend the OS Giken kit mate and if you are Drag racing a lot with around 600 bhp it will out last a standard box for sure.








Smokey :smokin:


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## moleman (Jun 3, 2002)

Madden said:


> They do sound good but what it the conversion price? £4000 +?


Soz mate, only just seen that if it was directed at me.

I bought used but freshly rebuilt Getrag and transfer box for £1800. Exeddy clutch/flywheel is around £1200 and bespoke lightweight single piece prop was £n/k. lol

I had it done when the car was built, so was part of a much bigger bill, so honestly can't tell you how much it was.

Abbey did it mate, so speaking to Tony is your best bet.


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

You got that gearbox well cheap. Where did you get that from?


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

The problem is the clutch. You need a sprung hub clutch,and shift easier into 3rd. 

If not, then the OS gearset will last longer, but you can still break it. It still has the same problem of gear mismatch in 3rd. 

I ran an OS gearset in a 600whp R32 for a while, and it was fine. Another guy with a 700 hp car broke 2 in succession. Both were during freeway races. 

The Getrags break other parts. Shifting sprags and the like. For the R34 race car the would last about 2 track days before we would break one. Probably more driver than car though. We also went though a few parts in the Holinger. 

I have seen one broken shift fork on a PPG box. That was more driver error than gearbox or gear related. And with that its something to think about too.


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

are Nismo Coppermix clutches sprung hub?


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

Toby. Yes they are.


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## Piggaz (Sep 5, 2002)

Smokey 1 said:


> an OS Giken 1234 we had managed plenty of action in the Lemon and Micks Gold R32, then into the whistely job and finally the Taisan it must have done 30,000 miles and bloody hundreds of drag launches.
> 
> The Taisan now has a OS Giken 12345 kit in there and it is spot on. I can deffo recommend the OS Giken kit mate and if you are Drag racing a lot with around 600 bhp it will out last a standard box for sure.
> 
> Smokey :smokin:


Did those boxes with have the Billet Centre plate in it?


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## Smokey 1 (Nov 1, 2005)

Piggaz said:


> Did those boxes with have the Billet Centre plate in it?


Yes mate, the center plate was fitted to that box




Smokey


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## NITO (Nov 19, 2003)

I agree with Sean,

I had an RC3 OS Giken clutch and knackered a 3rd gear syncro on the upchange on my Getrag. I had no problems with the box previously ever. I put it down to the shock loading of the clutch also (although I was told I was talking bollox so I'm glad someone else experienced is in agreement). There is a previous thread on this somewhere. 

I went back to the Nismo twin plate with the larger spline conversion while the box was apart and didn't knacker the syncro again despite a lot more power and the twin is so much better to use anyway. I wouldn't go with an OS triple plate clutch again, I don't see the point when there are twins that can handle pretty much enough power for most applications, I think the ATS carbon twin was 900bhp from memory with the 1350 clutch cover, also sprung. I bought an ATS twin carbon to go with Tim's old OS88 but sold them both before ever using them unfortunately. 

Live and learn!

Nito


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## kismetcapitan (Nov 25, 2005)

Piggaz said:


> Toby. Yes they are.


God bless Nismo!!:clap:


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

Yea i know it's the clutch. If they only done a sprung center hub then all would be sweet. The clutch isnt to bad to drive with around town but I can't afford to lose the money i have spent on this clutch to get another one.

Car is all up and running again with another set of stock gears so let's see how long it last's this time. Going to take it easy into 3rd and see what happens.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

I would replace the clutch. The sprung hub does make a difference. It softens that shockload when you let the clutch out hard. Enough, that combined with the Shockproof Heavy gearoil that the transmission lasts longer.

I know this feeling of ripping teeth off gears. I have done it a few times.


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## stagea-RS4-96 (Feb 21, 2008)

Get an auto box!! lol.


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## tyndago (Oct 24, 2002)

stagea-RS4-96 said:


> Get an auto box!! lol.


Quickest way A to B. ATI has the adaptor.... put a turbo 400 in it. Knock a second off your 1/4 mile time.


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## Ian C (Jun 3, 2003)

Just quick one madden:
Are you running billet selectors and who makes them?








if i'm going to rebuild my OSG box i might go for this....(that or get the original parts shot peened)

Thanks, Ian


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## Madden (Nov 14, 2004)

No mate they are all stock selectors. Just clean  

How much did you get that box for?


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