# 1000bhp??



## Huzzy1 (Aug 4, 2015)

Just a query for the boys with the deep pockets and big power. After being at Litchfield a few months ago it would become apparent that there are so many people out there with big builds that theres a fair bit of money floating about, I saw a few cars there that admittedly were dogs, but were obviously just track toys. So, the money shot of a 1000 horses, what's the damage?

I'm querying the cost for a reputable 1000 horsepower build with the supporting mods, e.g. brakes, harnesses, (different seats???) tyres to an extent.

Back in my subaru days, 400 horses would see you as some sort of celebrity, but it seems the R35 community pinnacle there is such an unparelled equivalent and 600 horses your just a 'nobody'. opcorn:opcorn:


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## Clogger (Sep 15, 2014)

Huzzy1 said:


> Just a query for the boys with the deep pockets and big power. After being at Litchfield a few months ago it would become apparent that there are so many people out there with big builds that theres a fair bit of money floating about, I saw a few cars there that admittedly were dogs, but were obviously just track toys. So, the money shot of a 1000 horses, what's the damage?
> 
> I'm querying the cost for a reputable 1000 horsepower build with the supporting mods, e.g. brakes, harnesses, (different seats???) tyres to an extent.
> 
> Back in my subaru days, 400 horses would see you as some sort of celebrity, but it seems the R35 community pinnacle there is such an unparelled equivalent and 600 horses your just a 'nobody'. opcorn:opcorn:


About 55-60K or there abouts.


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## Mrw (Aug 22, 2012)

Clogger said:


> About 55-60K or there abouts.



Where you getting that figure from ????


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## terry lloyd (Feb 12, 2014)

I would guess @

£10k forged engine

£10k gearbox

£10k turbo kit

£5k-£10k brakes

£5k map/injectors/ intakes /exhaust /on ecutek/cobb + @£5k syvecs


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## TAZZMAXX (Mar 9, 2010)

To the OP, does your 'logical' head not make you question why these stupid 1000bhp builds exist? Put it this way, a good many of them will be about bragging rights rather than the fact the owners need all that power.


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## AnEvoGuy (Aug 17, 2011)

TAZZMAXX said:


> To the OP, does your 'logical' head not make you question why these stupid 1000bhp builds exist? Put it this way, a good many of them will be about bragging rights rather than the fact the owners need all that power.


No one needs the power a standard GTR has!


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## goRt (May 17, 2011)

It's the torque that's important, let's assume you want 1,000 torques too.
55-60 is the going rate if you ask around.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk


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## Lukes R35 GT-R (Mar 1, 2015)

It's just the modding bug it's like drugs I ploughed 35k into a mk5 golf last year lol nobody needs it and half the time it won't make you any quicker on the track.. Can't deny I bet that 1000hp is worth it at 12 o clock at night on a few duels though but that's about it


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## twobadmice (Jul 2, 2013)

1000 lb torque is not ideal for road use. 800lbs is the holy grail I have been reliably informed but obviously you then need the full Dodson gearset and clutches.

Between £45k to £80k depending on how you want to go about it.


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## vxrcymru (Sep 29, 2009)

Some 3 years ago ish,, Litchfield were offering to build LM 1000 for 50k but I doubt if that included 1000ftlbs.


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## Clogger (Sep 15, 2014)

Mrw said:


> Where you getting that figure from ????


From some one that had a 1000 build completed this year. Price was prior to the build so I don't know what the final price was or what parts etc.. were used. Car was already at stage 4.25.


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## TREG (May 20, 2004)

Lukes R35 GT-R said:


> It's just the modding bug it's like drugs I ploughed 35k into a mk5 golf last year lol



Give yourself a smack on the head!!:chuckle:


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## MattGTR750 (Apr 26, 2012)

Waste of money, if you want to fall out of love with your car and it always break or be stuck in the garage costing you money then pull the trigger! 600-650 is the best power to value ratio for these cars!!


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## paulmc (Oct 31, 2004)

Just buy an new RS6

Chuck on some bigger turbos, fuel pump, exhaust and intercooler mods and you have 1000bhp. Much cheapness:thumbsup:


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## hsb (Aug 19, 2013)

Or just buy a fully forged one that's had it all done, I am looking at the 8-900 torque factor right now and working out what its going to cost so saving already!

Some real good forged monsters that are drivable daily out there but you have to look around.


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## paulmc (Oct 31, 2004)

hsb said:


> Or just buy a fully forged one that's had it all done, I am looking at the 8-900 torque factor right now and working out what its going to cost so saving already!
> 
> Some real good forged monsters that are drivable daily out there but you have to look around.


If only it was that easy. Gearbox next. it wont cope well with 900lbs


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## AnEvoGuy (Aug 17, 2011)

paulmc said:


> If only it was that easy. Gearbox next. it wont cope well with 900lbs


What about clutch, bracing, driveshafts etc? If it has to handle 900lbs/ft I wouldn't expect it to drive like standard with regard to noise and driveability. 

Given the funds I would go for a litchfield 3.8 sport engine and EFRs for 850bhp. I would have some gearbox strenghtening so I wouldn't have to cap the torque and call it a day.


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## Lukes R35 GT-R (Mar 1, 2015)

paulmc said:


> Just buy an new RS6
> 
> Chuck on some bigger turbos, fuel pump, exhaust and intercooler mods and you have 1000bhp. Much cheapness:thumbsup:


And look like an old businessman in a midlife at the same time lol


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## paulmc (Oct 31, 2004)

Lukes R35 GT-R said:


> And look like an old businessman in a midlife at the same time lol


You missed out rich and if you seen me I am no business man:chuckle:I can cope with that though:thumbsup:


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## FRRACER (Jun 23, 2013)

TAZZMAXX said:


> To the OP, does your 'logical' head not make you question why these stupid 1000bhp builds exist? Put it this way, a good many of them will be about bragging rights rather than the fact the owners need all that power.


Alcon Superkit and a 1000 bhp will make for whats lacking in the trouser department :chuckle::chuckle:


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## Mrw (Aug 22, 2012)

my car is in for an upgrade at the moment that will see it have 1100 bhp plus when it's done with a fully built gearbox. The thing with having a turbo car is that you don't have to run it balls out all the time. My car had 900 hp previous and I used it all when racing a events like TOTB but on the road 90% of the time it ran at actuator pressure so for a forged engine it had a very easy life. 

I agree I don't need this much power but I want it. But just because I will have 1100 bhp doesn't mean I will use it all the time, so I very hopefully it will prove to be reliable.


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

AnEvoGuy said:


> What about clutch, bracing, driveshafts etc? If it has to handle 900lbs/ft I wouldn't expect it to drive like standard with regard to noise and driveability.
> 
> Given the funds I would go for a litchfield 3.8 sport engine and EFRs for 850bhp. I would have some gearbox strenghtening so I wouldn't have to cap the torque and call it a day.


The thing is you can get near 700 bhp these days from stage 4.25, so your essentially going to be paying about £25k to go from 700 -> 850bhp. That's big cash for a modest increase.

There's something to be said for putting the litchfield EFR's into a stock motor, going for 800bhp with torque capped, budgeting for blowing the engine and hoping for the best. So far it looks like they hold up at 800 but only time will tell.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

borat52 said:


> The thing is you can get near 700 bhp these days from stage 4.25, so your essentially going to be paying about £25k to go from 700 -> 850bhp. That's big cash for a modest increase.
> 
> There's something to be said for putting the litchfield EFR's into a stock motor, going for 800bhp with torque capped, budgeting for blowing the engine and hoping for the best. So far it looks like they hold up at 800 but only time will tell.


I went through same thought process and decided building/repairing a broken engine costs a lot more than forging engine as a preventative measure. I plan to track mine, so more extreme use...may be 800bhp for the road with torque capped will last for years. I think Switzer P800 is circa 800bhp at the crank and they've not had many failures.

Your prob looking around £20K for built engine with EFR kit if you are already at stage 4. 

I now face same issue with gearbox, do I built it for circa £15K and turn up power to 950bhp and torque to somewhere around 700lbft...


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

Anders_R35 said:


> I went through same thought process and decided building/repairing a broken engine costs a lot more than forging engine as a preventative measure.
> 
> I now face same issue with gearbox, do I built it for circa £15K and turn up power to 950bhp and torque to somewhere around 700lbft...


That's the thing, forge the engine with EFR's is £20k ish and you've still got a gearbox limitation on the torque, which as you point out will cost about £15k to solve properly, and then your away but your also £35k down the line.

Another option which I had not really considered until right now is to go for 750bhp, stock internals, cap torque and take out a warranty.


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## Adamantium (Jun 24, 2002)

borat52 said:


> That's the thing, forge the engine with EFR's is £20k ish and you've still got a gearbox limitation on the torque, which as you point out will cost about £15k to solve properly, and then your away but your also £35k down the line.
> 
> Another option which I had not really considered until right now is to go for 750bhp, stock internals, cap torque and take out a warranty.


That's actually a very good idea. Not so much fun, but a good idea none the less.


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## paulmc (Oct 31, 2004)

borat52 said:


> That's the thing, forge the engine with EFR's is £20k ish and you've still got a gearbox limitation on the torque, which as you point out will cost about £15k to solve properly, and then your away but your also £35k down the line.
> 
> Another option which I had not really considered until right now is to go for 750bhp, stock internals, cap torque and take out a warranty.


That's where my car ended up. Turbos from Ben Linney that can do around 900 (in case I wanted more) but only running 1.4bar of boost and around 750 +bhp with torque limited to around 620ish. Cheap fast option that keeps gearbox standard and safe'ish


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

borat52 said:


> That's the thing, forge the engine with EFR's is £20k ish and you've still got a gearbox limitation on the torque, which as you point out will cost about £15k to solve properly, and then your away but your also £35k down the line.
> 
> Another option which I had not really considered until right now is to go for 750bhp, stock internals, cap torque and take out a warranty.


It's a slippery slope agreed. My plan is to leave gearbox standard until it breaks or until a couple of years have passed, where I'll be feeling the urge for more power again.

The 750bhp target is another dilemma, because you'll still be in for circa £5-6K for a set of turbos fitted and mapped and only have 50-60hp more than well set up Stage 4.x running close to 700bhp. It's not much difference in price per horse power / value than built engine with EFR's. But I suppose warranty on gearbox is nice to have.


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## andysukgtr (Mar 23, 2014)

AnEvoGuy said:


> What about clutch, bracing, driveshafts etc? If it has to handle 900lbs/ft I wouldn't expect it to drive like standard with regard to noise and driveability.
> 
> Given the funds I would go for a litchfield 3.8 sport engine and EFRs for 850bhp. I would have some gearbox strenghtening so I wouldn't have to cap the torque and call it a day.


Basically what i have done. If you can use anymore on the road then maybe you live in a different country to me


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## john beesla (Jun 6, 2011)

I have a friend who went from stage 4.25 to a stage 5 which cost a lot!
but he can't notice much difference between the two as the torque is pretty much the same
so is it really worth it? 
The only way he can get the best out of his car is to do the pistons and rods then your looking at being capped at approximately 700ftlbs of torque due to the gearbox!!
I'm looking at the lm900 package but I feel unless you do the lot including gearbox you won't get the very best out of the modifications, which is seriously expensive.


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## robgtr90 (Aug 3, 2013)

ill be running almost identical specs to Mrw , regardless of doing box or not it will be quicker than any stage 4 car, i couldnt see you hitting near 1000 without a built box. 
dont wait for your stock box to break as when they break it causes even more damage and isnt a straight gearset replacement. ive went PPG box in mine and look forward to the increased torque numbers. hope that helps


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## paulmc (Oct 31, 2004)

john beesla said:


> I have a friend who went from stage 4.25 to a stage 5 which cost a lot!
> but he can't notice much difference between the two as the torque is pretty much the same
> so is it really worth it?
> The only way he can get the best out of his car is to do the pistons and rods then your looking at being capped at approximately 700ftlbs of torque due to the gearbox!!
> I'm looking at the lm900 package but I feel unless you do the lot including gearbox you won't get the very best out of the modifications, which is seriously expensive.


Cant be set up right. I did something similar and the results were huge. Stage 5 is way quicker than 4.25


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## Huzzy1 (Aug 4, 2015)

Did you ever put yours on the rollers Paul? You're car was so cheap for the spec.


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm at stage 4.25 (666/611now and probably 630bhp a couple of years ago) and mate and I went to vmax 200 and ran in each others cars. There is a big difference. I was just nudging 199 on the speedo going through the traps and he was hitting the limiter at 208mph indicated well before the traps. You probably only really start to appreciate the difference at 100+mph though.


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## john beesla (Jun 6, 2011)

Stevie76 said:


> I'm at stage 4.25 (666/611now and probably 630bhp a couple of years ago) and mate and I went to vmax 200 and ran in each others cars. There is a big difference. I was just nudging 199 on the speedo going through the traps and he was hitting the limiter at 208mph indicated well before the traps. You probably only really start to appreciate the difference at 100+mph though.


What was your mate's car running?


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## Stevie76 (Dec 17, 2009)

john beesla said:


> What was your mate's car running?


Stage 5....


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## barry P. (May 9, 2010)

There's a thread on here somewhere from a few years ago which I started which questioned whether Stage 5 was worth it. I still think the sweet spot for mainly road based cars is stage 4.25. How many drivers can hand on heart admit they floor the throttle when driving on the road on regular journeys, and when they do completely use 100% throttle they then believe they need another 100bhp because it's not fast enough?


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

barry P. said:


> There's a thread on here somewhere from a few years ago which I started which questioned whether Stage 5 was worth it. I still think the sweet spot for mainly road based cars is stage 4.25. How many drivers can hand on heart admit they floor the throttle when driving on the road on regular journeys, and when they do completely use 100% throttle they then believe they need another 100bhp because it's not fast enough?


I'd agree with that, for road use 4.25 / 4.5 is about perfect. You really feel the advantage of turbo kits / built engines in higher 5500-7500rpm levels, where the turbos don't run out of puff like stock ones. When your pulling in 3rd / 4th gear at these rpms, you're well past speed limits.


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## paulmc (Oct 31, 2004)

Huzzy1 said:


> Did you ever put yours on the rollers Paul? You're car was so cheap for the spec.


No never got I to the rollers before I sold it. It had easily around / over 750. At Litchfield Stage 4 is was very fast when I went with the big turbos I found myself wanting to lift off the throttle it was so quick compared to stage 4. That did not happen for long though lol. Not sure what stage mine would be classed as. Bigger turbos than stage 4.5 but no forged bottom end son not stage 5.

There is another guy running these turbos with good results. He is on here. Not sure if he is going to hit the rollers or not. Fingers crossed he does at some point. very fast car for decent money.


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## Jonndogg (Oct 27, 2012)

From what I've seen on this site with Litchfields latest developments the stage 4.25 with a small amount of dyno optimisation is seeing most if not all customers >660hp and 600-620lb/ft. 

I'd agree with Barry, latest stage 4.25 is enough for the road certainly but whatever floats your boat. If anyone in Suffolk/Essex has a monster build I'd love a passenger ride !!


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

barry P. said:


> There's a thread on here somewhere from a few years ago which I started which questioned whether Stage 5 was worth it. I still think the sweet spot for mainly road based cars is stage 4.25. How many drivers can hand on heart admit they floor the throttle when driving on the road on regular journeys, and when they do completely use 100% throttle they then believe they need another 100bhp because it's not fast enough?


This is sage advice. You're also on pretty safe ground at this level of tune with regards to reliability. My 2009 car hit 750bhp with Litchfield stage 4.5 turbo's and a forge intercooler, which cost me £7k over stage 4.25. So 480bhp -> 660bhp = £4000 or £22 per bhp. 660bhp -> 750bhp = £7000 or £78 per bhp. 

I've had a year at that power, no reliability issues so far and it is quicker than stage 4 was, but is it worth the 7k? Not so sure on that.


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## paulmc (Oct 31, 2004)

borat52 said:


> This is sage advice. You're also on pretty safe ground at this level of tune with regards to reliability. My 2009 car hit 750bhp with Litchfield stage 4.5 turbo's and a forge intercooler, which cost me £7k over stage 4.25. So 480bhp -> 660bhp = £4000 or £22 per bhp. 660bhp -> 750bhp = £7000 or £78 per bhp.
> 
> I've had a year at that power, no reliability issues so far and it is quicker than stage 4 was, but is it worth the 7k? Not so sure on that.


I guess it depends how you get to stage xx. Mine cost me, (over stage 4)

Turbos 2800
SRD intercooler 500 (secondhand) although not needed
Fuel pumps 120
mapping 300

Like you shelling out 7k for 750 is marginal. but 3k ish I think is value for money?? Intercooler is not needed my turbos were only ticking over

With the ability to crank up the turbos if you are brave enough.


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## borat52 (Jan 29, 2006)

paulmc said:


> I guess it depends how you get to stage xx. Mine cost me, (over stage 4)
> 
> Turbos 2800
> SRD intercooler 500 (secondhand) although not needed
> ...


£3220 for a pile of parts. You then have to add in oil + air con recharge + labour / garage time to fit. Fair enough if you take that on yourself (though you've got the cost of your own time + workshop). Even 'on the cheap' £4k is a really conservative estimate and that's without the intercooler.

What turbo's did you fit? I went for the 4.5 turbo's because I wanted stock spool, slightly jealous of the EFR guys now with their 500rpm before stock spool!


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## paulmc (Oct 31, 2004)

borat52 said:


> £3220 for a pile of parts. You then have to add in oil + air con recharge + labour / garage time to fit. Fair enough if you take that on yourself (though you've got the cost of your own time + workshop). Even 'on the cheap' £4k is a really conservative estimate and that's without the intercooler.
> 
> What turbo's did you fit? I went for the 4.5 turbo's because I wanted stock spool, slightly jealous of the EFR guys now with their 500rpm before stock spool!


Oil 60 Air con 60 Time, If I was not doing this I would be doing something else. It all depends how you spend your spare time? I spend mine fixing cars. Time is free for me

Linney 900R turbos


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## E14STO (Aug 20, 2015)

I'm going through this process now and In the back of my mind wonder what real world difference will be for me..
Still v excited to be soon owner of a JM900r. 

I don't expect to make over 850hp on 99ron. Especially as Torque is going to be capped which will prevent higher HP I think. turbos are stg 6 and capable of more. But you never know 
Currently it runs 611hp/700lb
Forged engine. It was originally stage 4.25 but has had overhaul at JM and forged engine built by JM.
I think It could also make more HPon a different dyno though.... Who knows! ;-) 

Anyway. New intakes, suction pipes, stage 6 turbos. See where we get.

And it could be a lot cheaper I guess but pre-empting future cost ie. Clutch is being done, baskets, awd plates, oh and move from Cobb to ecutek.

It's quick now, but noticeably runs out of steam once you've had the kick of all the torque.


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

I subscribe to the concept of forging the rods as a preventative measure rather than risking the rod through the side of the block. The cost difference is significant!

I have toyed with the idea of having the rods forged, which would give the engine a refresh at the same time. Then putting some bigger non EFR turbos on for 750/800bhp without capped torgue.


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## E14STO (Aug 20, 2015)

I was fortunate to buy car after JM had done the business and forged it at that 600+ HP level.

It's at JM / evotune now getting mapped


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

gtr mart said:


> I subscribe to the concept of forging the rods as a preventative measure rather than risking the rod through the side of the block. The cost difference is significant!
> 
> I have toyed with the idea of having the rods forged, which would give the engine a refresh at the same time. Then putting some bigger non EFR turbos on for 750/800bhp without capped torgue.


Is a forged engine 100% reliable tho? Have any forged R35 engines ever gone pop?

At stage 4.25 would it be worth getting forged for safety, or is it just a waste of a sizable chunk of money, because if a forged engine could blow??... when you already have a stock engine that seems to handle it fine........


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## john beesla (Jun 6, 2011)

E14STO said:


> I'm going through this process now and In the back of my mind wonder what real world difference will be for me..
> Still v excited to be soon owner of a JM900r.
> 
> I don't expect to make over 850hp on 99ron. Especially as Torque is going to be capped which will prevent higher HP I think. turbos are stg 6 and capable of more. But you never know
> ...


Hi you was running 611hp with 700ftlbs? So you will now have more bhp but torque pretty much the same? Still be awesome though proper quick, gearbox will be restricting now.


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## E14STO (Aug 20, 2015)

Yeah, HP restricted by turbos and old intakes setup.
Its looking like 855hp / 700 (not sure yet) on max map.
That is conservative HP for turbos I think but gearbox internals is the weak link as you say so keeping it safe


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## Mrw (Aug 22, 2012)

My old turbos working well . I ran 760 ft lbs on my max map for a year, launched the car a fair few times and ran 9.7 sec 1/4 mile on a standard gear set with no problems.

Full upgraded gear box for next year though so my gt35s can be turned up to 11


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## john beesla (Jun 6, 2011)

gtr mart said:


> I subscribe to the concept of forging the rods as a preventative measure rather than risking the rod through the side of the block. The cost difference is significant!
> 
> I have toyed with the idea of having the rods forged, which would give the engine a refresh at the same time. Then putting some bigger non EFR turbos on for 750/800bhp without capped torgue.


Just the rods or pistons too?
You not liking the EFRs or is it the price as they are expensive
They are pretty impressive though faster than stock spool!!
I suppose aftert that it's the gearbox restricting things.

Surprised with MrW running 760ftlbs over a year luck you reckon 
or was on borrowed time??


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## E14STO (Aug 20, 2015)

I guess it depends how you drive the car...
Mrw does say it's been launched a fair few time and it's held together so that's a good sign!
Mine ran at 700lbs for a year and continues to do so. I've not launched it, although I guess it has been as I've not had it all that time (5-6k miles)

I've spoke to some owners and they reckon the worst thing is in auto mode in 5th /6th when you floor it and it cogs down 2 gears. That's when the torque is likely to do the damage. As opposed to pushing through the gears. Only what I've been told.....


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## Mrw (Aug 22, 2012)

john beesla said:


> Just the rods or pistons too?
> You not liking the EFRs or is it the price as they are expensive
> They are pretty impressive though faster than stock spool!!
> I suppose aftert that it's the gearbox restricting things.
> ...



760ft lbs. was only when I was racing. 95% of the time on the road I ran the turbos at actuator pressure 1.2 bar so the torque was greatly reduced.

As I stated before, for me this is the beauty of turbo car ,just because you make a 1000hp say you dont have to use it all of the time.


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## Chronos (Dec 2, 2013)

any comments on my question? OR is it too voodoo to talk about? Am only asking as a possible future forger. 



Chronos said:


> Is a forged engine 100% reliable tho? Have any forged R35 engines ever gone pop?
> 
> At stage 4.25 would it be worth getting forged for safety, or is it just a waste of a sizable chunk of money, because if a forged engine could blow??...why get it forged?........


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## E14STO (Aug 20, 2015)

Thinks mines got a couple of maps on it.. Not sure what they are yet though but I am hoping for a 650750/850 with reduced torque. However I've had multimaps before on other cars and never taken it off balls out mode!

As for the forged question - I'm no expert but there was a huge thread on another forum and ALOT of cars globally with big miles on forged engines.... Not all huge power - which must surely be a factor. 
850 on a forged will surely last longer than 1200. You'd think anyway??


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## E14STO (Aug 20, 2015)

On a 4.25 I think unless you push torque to 630-40 plus then probably overkill. 
There will no doubt be more not forged at that stage than are


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## gtr mart (Mar 29, 2004)

john beesla said:


> Just the rods or pistons too?
> You not liking the EFRs or is it the price as they are expensive
> They are pretty impressive though faster than stock spool!!
> I suppose aftert that it's the gearbox restricting things.
> ...


Just rods for me as I don't think you need to do pistons under 800bhp and I would rather spend the extra £2k on drugs and hookers (not really)

As for the EFR question. Mostly price. But I also like my turbo cars to feel like turbo cars and give you a slug of boost. The smaller EFRs spool so rapidly I think you lose a bit of this feeling. After all, I don't really need my car to GO any faster, I just want it to FEEL faster


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## paulmc (Oct 31, 2004)

Linney 900R turbos are the way to go. I would do it all again. fantastic turbos irrespective of price.


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## Anders_R35 (Jul 20, 2011)

gtr mart said:


> But I also like my turbo cars to feel like turbo cars and give you a slug of boost. The smaller EFRs spool so rapidly I think you lose a bit of this feeling. After all, I don't really need my car to GO any faster, I just want it to FEEL faster


It's all in the mapping, if you want to ride a torque wave with EFR turbos ask your mapper.


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